Black Sabbath Discussion Thread

[wolfking]

During the Ozzy era, 99% of the lyrics are written by Geezer.

During the Dio era, I think all lyrics were from Dio, H&H and MR definitely, not sure about Dehumanizer but I think they are Dio too.

I'm not sure about Born Again but I think perhaps lyrics are by Gillan.

On Seventh Star, I think it was both Tony and Glenn that penned the lyrics.

Tony Martin wasn't part of the writing for Eternal Idol, so I'm not sure, I think just Tony, maybe Nicholls wrote too.

I think the rest of the Tony Martin album the lyrics are from Martin.

[NotePad]

What about the recent H&H album, The Devil You Know? I'v yet to hear it. Did Dio write the lyrics?

And on 13, some of the lyrics i caught sounded like they were about addiction, leading me to think they were written by Ozzy. Did he do 13s lyrics?

I'v yet to hear The Devil You Know, but I'm very curious about how it compares to 13. Musically, is it as sombre and downbeat as 13? Or heavier or faster?

[BlobVanDam]

The Devil You Know is mostly the slow Sabbathy stuff. The only uptempo song is Eating The Cannibals, and even that isn't super fast.

[El Barto]

Tony Martin wasn't part of the writing for Eternal Idol, so I'm not sure, I think just Tony, maybe Nicholls wrote too.

I think the rest of the Tony Martin album the lyrics are from Martin.

Yeah, I some snippets from an interview where he discussed writing the lyrics. The gist of it was that since he was writing Sabbath stuff he figured it all needed to be about hell and atheism and such. Iommi told him to maybe tone it down a little, so he went out and wrote Tyr about stuff that actually interested him.

[gazinwales]

From what I know, seen read and gather, the Ozzy's only contribution to the songwriting is humming a melody.
That said some of the lyrics on 13 are pretty average by Geezer's usual high standards.
But Ozzy never wrote any lyrics during his 'solo' career.

Not sure about the Dio era stuff, though I would say it sounds mostly Dio and maybe the odd one from Geezer.

The Martin era was definitely TM, he went a little too far with The Headless Cross, with the devil, dungeon and hell stuff.

I also suspect that Geoff Nichols was uncredited for a lot of 'ghost' contributions from his various stints in BS.

[NotePad]

Slight OT, but how much of Ozzy's solo stuff is actually written by him? More recently. I know Zakk Wylde was kicked out partly because the material he was writing, for Scream, i believe, sounded too much like BLS. ( i actually agree with that. Black Rain is where it became too obvious. But back in the no more tears day, Zakk could write awesome Ozzy songs). I assume most he does in terms of music is hum tunes, listen to what his guitarist come up with, suggest things, listen, hum/suggest....guess i answered my own question, im sure thats how it is ;p. I forget the name of the guy replacing Zakk, but did he write a lot of Scream? Does Ozzy write his solo lyrics?

(btw, who else thinks Black Rain and Scream are very unoriginal? Black Rain had a few decent tunes, but that's it. And couldn't Ozzy just tell Zakk to write in a less BLS sounding style rather then kick him out? i mean, come on- it's zakk fuckin Wylde!)

[BlobVanDam]

I don't think Ozzy does much writing music, aside from a bit of input here and there. Gus G didn't write anything at all for Scream. I don't like anything off that album, except for maybe Let Me Hear You Scream, which is merely ok. Black Rain at least had a few redeeming tracks among the filler.

[Jaq]

Yeah, the 80s Ozzy albums had lyrics written by Bob Daisley, who tended to co-write a lot of the music too.  Lemmy actually wrote the lyrics to four songs on No More Tears, and Daisley did some uncredited lyric work on it too.

Musically, other than melodies he hums, Ozzy doesn't write music. He got credit for writing all of Bark at the Moon by himself, but that was part of the deal that Sharon cut with Bob Daisley for the writing on that album. In fact, if you want to give one person credit for who Ozzy is as a solo artist, it's Bob Daisley.

[gazinwales]

Speaking of Bob Daisley, he only lives 10 minutes away from me, though I haven't seen him, I rarely go to the suburb he lives in.
But would be cool to meet him someday.

[wolfking]

Speaking of Bob Daisley, he only lives 10 minutes away from me, though I haven't seen him, I rarely go to the suburb he lives in.
But would be cool to meet him someday.

Wait, aren't you an Aussie?  So he lives here?

[gazinwales]

Yes and Yes and Bob is also and Aussie.

[wolfking]

Fuck, I never knew that.

I guess that explains how the Living Loud project happened.  I loved that album with Jimmy Barnes, I wish they did more albums.

[El Barto]

Daisly seems like a really cool guy, and he's a rock solid player; always been a fan. There's an extended interview with him on Youtube where he discusses all of his projects, but obviously provides some real insights into the whole Blizzard of Ozz thing (and Ozzy's cunt wife).

Personally, I always greatly preferred Diary for the simple reason that while Blizzard was primarily Airy/Rhodes driven while Diary was all about Daisly and Kerslake. Those two made that album awesome.

[TAC]

Daisley also just released his autobiography, For Fact's Sake.
I must pick it up.

[wolfking]

You guys should check out the Living Loud project with Daisley and Kerslake.  Also features Steve Morse, Jimmy Barnes and Don Airey.  Half the album was Ozzy covers and the other half was original material.  The album is really excellent.  More rock style and the Ozzy covers were pretty different, but they were cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEHXx3b4Qk8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXQ-MWmKJDk

[BlobVanDam]

Fuck, I never knew that.

That makes 2 of us! So where abouts does Bob Daisley live these days?

[NotePad]

Back in the day, there was a song that just happened to appear on my computer. I featured Ozzy, Lemmy, and Slash on guitar. What CD was this released on? Maybe a Slash album? BTW, does Slash have any band he's in? Cuz that guy is a living legend, is he just doing solo stuff, are there singers? I'm out of the loop with Slash. I do remember when Velvet Revolver split. That disappointed me, cuz i actually liked their music and I want to see Slash in a BAND, cuz thats here i guy like his should be.

Back to Black Sabbath. 13 is really kickass. Really really great way to end a career. Too bad Ozzy will probably keep doing bland albums like Scream. 13 would be a great career topper. Not just for Ozzy, but all of them.

[JayOctavarium]

Back in the day, there was a song that just happened to appear on my computer. I featured Ozzy, Lemmy, and Slash on guitar. What CD was this released on? Maybe a Slash album? BTW, does Slash have any band he's in? Cuz that guy is a living legend, is he just doing solo stuff, are there singers? I'm out of the loop with Slash. I do remember when Velvet Revolver split. That disappointed me, cuz i actually liked their music and I want to see Slash in a BAND, cuz thats here i guy like his should be.

Back to Black Sabbath. 13 is really kickass. Really really great way to end a career. Too bad Ozzy will probably keep doing bland albums like Scream. 13 would be a great career topper. Not just for Ozzy, but all of them.

Well Slash is doing his own thing with Myles Kennedy... I'd consider them a band... kinda

[El Barto]

I like the Crowley cover a lot. The original song isn't really my thing, but still very well done (hard not to be given the talent). I'd certainly pay $25 to see them live if they toured.

Interestingly, Tommy Aldridge lived right down the street from here. Which early 80's Ozzy bandmember were you neighbors with, Tim? 

[TAC]

I'm sorry, which Ozzy song was named after you?

[El Barto]

Touche.

Here's the Daisly interview. The man's had a helluva career. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIhAiHeh9j4

[NotePad]

About Velvet Revolver, wikipedia still lists them as Active, says slash is still a member. Whatever....

I love everything about 13. I love how it sounds just like classic Sabbath. Yet it does sound new. And i love the fact that it hit number 1 and so many people bought it and love it. They're considered by many to be the first Heavy Metal band. To see them come back all these years later, after so many music trends, and in the middle of so many music trends, and be such a succeess- man, is that great to see.

What other Sabbath records would you compare 13 to. Their first one?

[wolfking]

I like the Crowley cover a lot. The original song isn't really my thing, but still very well done (hard not to be given the talent). I'd certainly pay $25 to see them live if they toured.

Unfortunately, they only did one album and they never really took off.  I think conflicting schedules didn't help.  Check the whole album, all the Ozzy covers are a bit different like that, really enjoyable.

[Madman Shepherd]

During the Ozzy era, 99% of the lyrics are written by Geezer.

During the Dio era, I think all lyrics were from Dio, H&H and MR definitely, not sure about Dehumanizer but I think they are Dio too.

I'm not sure about Born Again but I think perhaps lyrics are by Gillan.

On Seventh Star, I think it was both Tony and Glenn that penned the lyrics.

Tony Martin wasn't part of the writing for Eternal Idol, so I'm not sure, I think just Tony, maybe Nichols wrote too.

I think the rest of the Tony Martin album the lyrics are from Martin.

On Seventh Star, the lyrics were written by Geoff Nichols and Glenn Hughes.  Tony Iommi has never written any lyrics.  I believe After Forever is credited only to Iommi but that was a mistake in the liner notes.  Funny note about Seventh Star, In Memory was originally written about Geoff Nichols dog that died.  Glenn pitched a fit and insisted on using his own lyrics which were about his grandfather that recently died.  It has been years since I read that account but I'm 90% sure thats the story. 

On Dehumanizer, Dio wrote all the lyrics except Master of Insanity.  Strangely enough, Geezer had written a song in the 80s called Computer God that has nothing to do with the Sabbath song except the title.  My understanding is Dio took the idea and wrote new lyrics. 

[NotePad]

So i don't know too much about Black Sabbath other then the Ozzy and Dio albums. I'v listened to a lot of the Ozzy stuff cuz i'v always liked the vibe more, but want to get into the dio stuff. I know H&H is a favorite and classic, but are the other i believe 2 Dio Sabbath albums any good?

Other then Dio and Ozzy, is the Deep Purple guy to only other vocalist who was on a Sabbath album? And how is the other non-Dio/Ozzy stuff? How does it compare in style and sound etc?

[gazinwales]

During the Ozzy era, 99% of the lyrics are written by Geezer.

During the Dio era, I think all lyrics were from Dio, H&H and MR definitely, not sure about Dehumanizer but I think they are Dio too.

I'm not sure about Born Again but I think perhaps lyrics are by Gillan.

On Seventh Star, I think it was both Tony and Glenn that penned the lyrics.

Tony Martin wasn't part of the writing for Eternal Idol, so I'm not sure, I think just Tony, maybe Nichols wrote too.

I think the rest of the Tony Martin album the lyrics are from Martin.

On Seventh Star, the lyrics were written by Geoff Nichols and Glenn Hughes.  Tony Iommi has never written any lyrics.  I believe After Forever is credited only to Iommi but that was a mistake in the liner notes.  Funny note about Seventh Star, In Memory was originally written about Geoff Nichols dog that died.  Glenn pitched a fit and insisted on using his own lyrics which were about his grandfather that recently died.  It has been years since I read that account but I'm 90% sure thats the story. 

On Dehumanizer, Dio wrote all the lyrics except Master of Insanity.  Strangely enough, Geezer had written a song in the 80s called Computer God that has nothing to do with the Sabbath song except the title.  My understanding is Dio took the idea and wrote new lyrics.

There is a demo of Geezers Computer Good, I have it somewhere.
Sounds totally different to the Sabbath version.

[El Barto]

So i don't know too much about Black Sabbath other then the Ozzy and Dio albums. I'v listened to a lot of the Ozzy stuff cuz i'v always liked the vibe more, but want to get into the dio stuff. I know H&H is a favorite and classic, but are the other i believe 2 Dio Sabbath albums any good?

Other then Dio and Ozzy, is the Deep Purple guy to only other vocalist who was on a Sabbath album? And how is the other non-Dio/Ozzy stuff? How does it compare in style and sound etc?

Of the Dio albums, I consider H&H the weakest of the three. Mob Rules is my favorite, and Dehumanizer is awesome.

There were two Deep Purple guys to sing for Sabbath; Ian Gillan and Glenn Hughes. Both good albums but certainly different than usual. Then there's Tony Martin who was on 5 albums, 4 of which were very good, but again fairly different. In fact, each singer had their own very distinct influence on Sabbath's sound and style. One thing I will say is that if you like Ozzy's vibe more, then the other guys (except for possibly Gillan) won't be as much your thing. Martin was more of a Dio clone, and Hughes was unique.

[NotePad]

Earlier i was listening to some of the more 'obscure' Sabbath albums on Youtube. I was impressed by what i heard of the stuff with Tony Martin, particularily Tyr which had a darkness i really liked. The albums with Martin sound quite good actually. The problem was Iommi kept putting the Sabbath name out there for far too long. But some of them, like Tyr, definately give me the impression that they could stand with the classics, tall and proud.

I heard something about Gillian and sabbath once, was suprised he actually recorded albums with them. Not only that tho, but 2 Deep purple guys were part of sabbath. I would love to get all BS albums and listen to them straight thru. I bet a lot of these lesser know ones would end up being favorites of mine. But some of them, from what Wikipedia says, have a very un-BS vibe, that disappoints me. Hearing that something like Tyr is very dark just makes sense. was surprised Iommi didn't like what Martin did with the lyrics.

[El Barto]

Tyr is a favorite of mine, and judging from the current survivor plenty of others here. Good album, and unlike some of the others from that era, quite consistent. Add to that, Cozy Powell and Niel Murray were great together. As much as I love Dehumanizer, it's a shame that it shut down that great lineup.

[jjrock88]

As Bart & Wolf will vouch, I'm a big fan of the Martin era Sabbath.  For the most part its fallen off the face of the earth.  Its a shame, because its some top quality material.

[philmcson]

Back in the day, there was a song that just happened to appear on my computer. I featured Ozzy, Lemmy, and Slash on guitar. What CD was this released on?

Motörhead - I ain't no nice guy
...is the song
March ör die - album

[NotePad]

I was listening to Tye earlier and I think it is a really strong album. It's a shame how underrated and unknown some of their albums are, especially Tyr. I'm talking about the stuff without Dio and Ozzy.

I think it's really cool how Sabbath survived losing Ozzy. People love the Dio stuff. Heaven&Hell is considered one of their best. I think Dio's success with BS has inspired Jorn Lande to find a successful band to join. Just thought i'd mention that cuz i just read it in an interview ;p

But yea. People know the Ozzy Sabbath. They know the Dio Sabbath. People accept both era's as being Black Sabbath. But the other stuff know one talks about. I'm sure there is stuff that is really different and hard for people to accept. But the Dio stuff and the Ozzy stuff is VERY different. But there is something Sabbath about each. Headless Cross, Tyr sound like Sabbath. Tyr is very dark, the lyrics are great. I  think it's one of the best things in the Sabbath catalog. The Tony Martin albums are like secret bonus's for those willing to delve deep enough in the catalog. I havn't listened to much of the stuff with the Deep Purple guys. There were 2 DP vocalists in BS, right? I only know of Born Again. I don't like it though....

Sounds like it was a big mistake to kick Martin out for Dio's return, because it doesn't seem like many liked Dehumanizer. Based on Tyr alone, i would have loved if Iommi and Martin had just formed a band with a new name rather then used the sabbath name. They probably would have had more success, because it doesn't sound like they had much success beating the dead horse that was Black Sabbath at the time.

[BlobVanDam]

Dehumanizer is one of my favourite Sabbath albums. So I'm glad that lineup reformed, even if only shortly. I've listened to Tyr and Headless Cross, and they didn't really interest me when I listened to them.

[Mister Gold]

Dehumanizer is one of my favourite Sabbath albums. So I'm glad that lineup reformed, even if only shortly. I've listened to Tyr and Headless Cross, and they didn't really interest me when I listened to them.

Dehumanizer was actually the very first Sabbath album I ever purchased, aside from previously picking up a Dio-era Greatest Hits CD. It's constantly battling it out with Mob Rules as my favorite Sabbath album. I loved hearing Dio's voice sing over the heavier, doomier side of the band.

[gazinwales]

I have just finished reading Mick Wall's book on Sabbath, called 'Symptom Of The Universe', which was a really good read.
It had a lot of the usual stories, but did contain of LOT of stuff that I never knew about the band.

This has let me to be actually interested in the Ozzy era, something that I had previously no interest in.
So I know there are a few different versions of the first 6 albums, different remasters.
Can anyone recommend which ones to get, which have the best sound?