DREAM THEATER ANNOUNCE THE RETURN OF DRUMMER MIKE PORTNOY

[crystalstars17]

"We'd like to welcome you to the family"... wait... wrong phone call*

*I honestly can't watch that documentary anymore after the reunion happened. It seems *TO ME* that they just threw away the last 13 years like it's no big deal. But then, again, we can't know for sure until the band is publicly active again.

Yup. 1000000%. Especially when they were more than happy with the way Mangini did his job.

This. It's still not settling well with me at all.

[crystalstars17]

Oh, god. Some of the regulars here would probably renounce their fandom if they reintroduced jams together with rotating setlists

Don't be surprised! Well, I kid, but only partially (and less to do with things like setlists).

At this point I'm inclined to walk away for a bit, if for no other reason to let the facts come out (about the way they handled things with MM) and the drama settle down. I honestly get more joy from other bands atm and perhaps not ironically they are for the most part bands who have either handled their drama differently and/or have buried it far in the past by now.
 
Add to everything else the radical change in presentation that you're talking about, it's just becoming not the same band (to me) anymore.

Highlighting the fact that this is just my subjective feelings about it all, but I'm just getting a bit fatigued here, as a fan.

[WilliamMunny]

Oh, god. Some of the regulars here would probably renounce their fandom if they reintroduced jams together with rotating setlists

Don't be surprised! Well, I kid, but only partially (and less to do with things like setlists).

At this point I'm inclined to walk away for a bit, if for no other reason to let the facts come out (about the way they handled things with MM) and the drama settle down. I honestly get more joy from other bands atm and perhaps not ironically they are for the most part bands who have either handled their drama differently and/or have buried it far in the past by now.
 
Add to everything else the radical change in presentation that you're talking about, it's just becoming not the same band (to me) anymore.

Highlighting the fact that this is just my subjective feelings about it all, but I'm just getting a bit fatigued here, as a fan.

I can totally relate to this post, as this is EXACTLY how I felt in the wake of MP's departure 13 years ago.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Oh, god. Some of the regulars here would probably renounce their fandom if they reintroduced jams together with rotating setlists

Don't be surprised! Well, I kid, but only partially (and less to do with things like setlists).

At this point I'm inclined to walk away for a bit, if for no other reason to let the facts come out (about the way they handled things with MM) and the drama settle down. I honestly get more joy from other bands atm and perhaps not ironically they are for the most part bands who have either handled their drama differently and/or have buried it far in the past by now.
 
Add to everything else the radical change in presentation that you're talking about, it's just becoming not the same band (to me) anymore.

Highlighting the fact that this is just my subjective feelings about it all, but I'm just getting a bit fatigued here, as a fan.

I get it. I would just suggest let's hear what the band brings to the table on DT16. The change is upsetting and seemingly out of nowhere if you believed - as I did - what JP said literally a year before announcing this decision. But I think DT is going to bring it on the next album. They know the next record can't be a dud. The drum department is going in the wrong direction for my personal taste but we can still end up with great music in the end. And if MM decides to play in another band we'll be doubly rich.

[gborland]

At this point I'm inclined to walk away for a bit, if for no other reason to let the facts come out (about the way they handled things with MM)

You'll be gone for a long time. There are no more facts to come out. They are not going to divulge any more details of their private conversations any time soon, or maybe ever.

and the drama settle down.

There really isn't any drama, apart from in the minds of a small number of people on the internet. Most people are perfectly capable of just accepting the change for what it is: a simple change of band line-up which most of us assumed was inevitable anyway.

[Progmaniac1988]

At this point I'm inclined to walk away for a bit, if for no other reason to let the facts come out (about the way they handled things with MM)

You'll be gone for a long time. There are no more facts to come out. They are not going to divulge any more details of their private conversations any time soon, or maybe ever.

and the drama settle down.


There really isn't any drama, apart from in the minds of a small number of people on the internet. Most people are perfectly capable of just accepting the change for what it is: a simple change of band line-up which most of us assumed was inevitable anyway.

I’m with you dude. I feel this situation has actually been very pleasant and drama free. Like You said some internet is making drama out of it for themselves. You want drama… MP’s departure in 2010 was drama! This is a cake walk. Either way. I’m really looking forward to what they bring to the table with DT16. I personally love what Portnoy brings to the band.

[crystalstars17]

You'll be gone for a long time. There are no more facts to come out. They are not going to divulge any more details of their private conversations any time soon, or maybe ever.

And nobody expects that. But the whole "was MM unceremoniously let go" after being welcomed as "family" and then tossed aside when it was convenient just leaves me with, as others have said it, a bad taste in my mouth. I really expected better of them and that said, it's just a little upsetting.

Adding that this is indeed speculation and at the very least I hope that those of us who see it this way are wrong.

[Progmaniac1988]

At this point I'm inclined to walk away for a bit, if for no other reason to let the facts come out (about the way they handled things with MM)

You'll be gone for a long time. There are no more facts to come out. They are not going to divulge any more details of their private conversations any time soon, or maybe ever.

and the drama settle down.


There really isn't any drama, apart from in the minds of a small number of people on the internet. Most people are perfectly capable of just accepting the change for what it is: a simple change of band line-up which most of us assumed was inevitable anyway.

I’m with you dude. I feel this situation has actually been very pleasant and drama free. Like You said some internet is making drama out of it for themselves. You want drama… MP’s departure in 2010 was drama! This is a cake walk. Either way. I’m really looking forward to what they bring to the table with DT16. I personally love what Portnoy brings to the band.

[evz]

So I'm nearing 59.  The last drummer I played with just hit 60.  When Covid hit, I had to stop playing with our band, because my wife has lupus and other autoimmune conditions and was at very high risk.  He kept going with other projects, but 2 months ago called me out of the blue and asked if i wanted to come over and jam.  I jumped at it.  While we weer talking in between playing, he said, you know, "I've got 10 years at best left where I can do this (drumming is pretty physical). So if you want to keep doing this or do more, let's do it while we can." 

It may just be a similar thing for the guys.  You only have so many years.  Best use them in the way that makes the most sense.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

So I'm nearing 59.  The last drummer I played with just hit 60.  When Covid hit, I had to stop playing with our band, because my wife has lupus and other autoimmune conditions and was at very high risk.  He kept going with other projects, but 2 months ago called me out of the blue and asked if i wanted to come over and jam.  I jumped at it.  While we weer talking in between playing, he said, you know, "I've got 10 years at best left where I can do this (drumming is pretty physical). So if you want to keep doing this or do more, let's do it while we can." 

It may just be a similar thing for the guys.  You only have so many years.  Best use them in the way that makes the most sense.

It might be. Or there might be other things in play that we don't know about because so little information has been revealed. But why did it not make sense a year ago and now make all the sense in the world?

[evz]

So I'm nearing 59.  The last drummer I played with just hit 60.  When Covid hit, I had to stop playing with our band, because my wife has lupus and other autoimmune conditions and was at very high risk.  He kept going with other projects, but 2 months ago called me out of the blue and asked if i wanted to come over and jam.  I jumped at it.  While we weer talking in between playing, he said, you know, "I've got 10 years at best left where I can do this (drumming is pretty physical). So if you want to keep doing this or do more, let's do it while we can." 

It may just be a similar thing for the guys.  You only have so many years.  Best use them in the way that makes the most sense.

It might be. Or there might be other things in play that we don't know about because so little information has been revealed. But why did it not make sense a year ago and now make all the sense in the world?

Yeah I'm obviously only guessing, but the last few years for me I've increasingly felt the sense of time slipping away.  So it's easy for me to view this in that light.  But it could easily be something else.  Or multiple something elses.

[HOF]

So I'm nearing 59.  The last drummer I played with just hit 60.  When Covid hit, I had to stop playing with our band, because my wife has lupus and other autoimmune conditions and was at very high risk.  He kept going with other projects, but 2 months ago called me out of the blue and asked if i wanted to come over and jam.  I jumped at it.  While we weer talking in between playing, he said, you know, "I've got 10 years at best left where I can do this (drumming is pretty physical). So if you want to keep doing this or do more, let's do it while we can." 

It may just be a similar thing for the guys.  You only have so many years.  Best use them in the way that makes the most sense.

It might be. Or there might be other things in play that we don't know about because so little information has been revealed. But why did it not make sense a year ago and now make all the sense in the world?

I think the easiest answer is probably that JP couldn’t have said anything else than to affirm that Mangini was the guy at that point. They were still in the middle of a touring cycle. Anything less than what he said opens the door to the type of speculation he wanted to avoid. And of course at that point he may have not been considering a reunion with MP in DT, but a year is plenty of time for someone’s feelings and perspective to change (it looks like that quote was at the start of his solo tour, so in between that quote and the time they made the change, JP had completed separate tours with each guy. The differences in those experiences could have reshaped his thinking).

[crystalstars17]

Most people are perfectly capable of just accepting the change for what it is: a simple change of band line-up

But, it's not. You and I both know that. Everyone knows that. It's not simply a change in personnel. It's a very significant change in personnel that implies the possibility of an equally significant paradigm shift for this band.

which most of us assumed was inevitable anyway.

May I ask why everyone felt this was "inevitable"?

[Indiscipline]

I don't know, guys.

I can't see drama or things don't making sense that should. I see change, chance, chaos, emotions: in a word, life. And life isn't a plot or a narrative you follow, it's a dervishing magma you at best  try to surf with grace. A decision doesn't invalidate what you may have felt for 13 years and what makes sense today doesn't neccessarily invalidate what made sense one year ago.

Unless we feel change itself is drama, but then the matter doesn't really concern DT, does it? Personally, I'm even beyond qualifying change as good or bad. Change is what we are given as living organisms. Not judging, just giving a different perspective with the mild desire to ease thoughts.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

So I'm nearing 59.  The last drummer I played with just hit 60.  When Covid hit, I had to stop playing with our band, because my wife has lupus and other autoimmune conditions and was at very high risk.  He kept going with other projects, but 2 months ago called me out of the blue and asked if i wanted to come over and jam.  I jumped at it.  While we weer talking in between playing, he said, you know, "I've got 10 years at best left where I can do this (drumming is pretty physical). So if you want to keep doing this or do more, let's do it while we can." 

It may just be a similar thing for the guys.  You only have so many years.  Best use them in the way that makes the most sense.

It might be. Or there might be other things in play that we don't know about because so little information has been revealed. But why did it not make sense a year ago and now make all the sense in the world?

I think the easiest answer is probably that JP couldn’t have said anything else than to affirm that Mangini was the guy at that point. They were still in the middle of a touring cycle. Anything less than what he said opens the door to the type of speculation he wanted to avoid. And of course at that point he may have not been considering a reunion with MP in DT, but a year is plenty of time for someone’s feelings and perspective to change (it looks like that quote was at the start of his solo tour, so in between that quote and the time they made the change, JP had completed separate tours with each guy. The differences in those experiences could have reshaped his thinking).

You raise an interesting point - one that I have avoided but cannot be ruled out. No one can preclude that JP thought one thing but said another. I personally start from the presumption that these guys mean what they say in public. However, I take your implied point that it is possible that his thoughts did not align with what he felt he had to say at that point.

[HOF]

We can only speculate about what he was actually thinking at that point. All I’m saying is that even if he and/or the others were already kicking around the idea of bringing MP back into the band at that point, saying anything less than what he did gets people thinking and talking and speculating, and that’s putting the band and especially Mangini in a tough spot.

[Dream Team]

Crystal, I love Mangini too but I think you're overstating the impact of the change. It's not like replacing James or JP.

[Setlist Scotty]

Scotty, I believe MP has mentioned a couple of times that the Portnoys and the Myungs have been together for things. I know he respects JM's privacy, so we don't hear about it a lot, but it seems that MP and JM have been on good terms for a while now. Do you believe this to be true?

Oh absolutely. It was a couple years before attending the DT show that MP stated he had patched things up with JM - I think they spent Christmas or New Years together, but with JM being private, he didn't post a photo of them together.
 
 

There's an anecdote from the 90s, I think it might have been when they decided to let DS go, where the four members got together for a secret meeting after a rehearsal to decide to make that change. I imagine it was a similar thing here, JM/JR/JLB/JP meet privately to discuss whether they want to reunite, then JP calls Portnoy.

That's when they secretly met after rehearsal to listen to JL's tape while they still were working with Chris Cintron.
 
 

*I honestly can't watch that documentary anymore after the reunion happened. It seems *TO ME* that they just threw away the last 13 years like it's no big deal. But then, again, we can't know for sure until the band is publicly active again.

Nah - not any more than they "threw away" the 4 years they spent with DS. If DT were to not acknowledge the last 5 albums from here on out (kinda like Pantera did with their first 4 albums or Judas Priest with the Ripper albums), then you'd have a point. But all indications are that this won't be the case, and it's a fairly safe bet that the MM-era will still feature in future setlists, although probably to a limited degree, similar to the Blaze albums in Maiden shows.
 
 

Watching MP's performance with UM makes me hope that DT incorporates more jams in the setlists. There was this JR comment after Thomas Lang's interpretation of The Dance of Eternity stating that "the fans are used to hearing these songs a certain way." I might be in the minority here but I would like a bit more variation in terms of live shows, altering the songs here and there. If I want the album as it is, I can just go listen to it and not go to the live show.

I agree with this, definitely one of the things i missed without MP in the band. I loved the improvisations, jams and all the quirky things they did live, it's what made them special.

Add me to that list too. That's one of the things that made them "especially special".
 
 

Photoshop. 

(that response sound familiar Jorge?   )
 
 

Oh, god. Some of the regulars here would probably renounce their fandom if they reintroduced jams together with rotating setlists

Don't be surprised! Well, I kid, but only partially (and less to do with things like setlists).

At this point I'm inclined to walk away for a bit, if for no other reason to let the facts come out (about the way they handled things with MM) and the drama settle down. I honestly get more joy from other bands atm and perhaps not ironically they are for the most part bands who have either handled their drama differently and/or have buried it far in the past by now.
 
Add to everything else the radical change in presentation that you're talking about, it's just becoming not the same band (to me) anymore.

Highlighting the fact that this is just my subjective feelings about it all, but I'm just getting a bit fatigued here, as a fan.

I can totally relate to this post, as this is EXACTLY how I felt in the wake of MP's departure 13 years ago.

I'm with you both. And Crystal, maybe it is best to take a step back or two - that's kinda what I had to do 13 years ago. And then when everything settles down and you see how everything fits together, then maybe you'll feel more comfortable with things than you do now.
 
 

You'll be gone for a long time. There are no more facts to come out. They are not going to divulge any more details of their private conversations any time soon, or maybe ever.

And nobody expects that. But the whole "was MM unceremoniously let go" after being welcomed as "family" and then tossed aside when it was convenient just leaves me with, as others have said it, a bad taste in my mouth. I really expected better of them and that said, it's just a little upsetting.

Adding that this is indeed speculation and at the very least I hope that those of us who see it this way are wrong.

It's completely understandable. To be honest, back in 1999 when JR replaced DS, as much as I was thrilled with JR being in the band, I still felt some disappointment for DS being let go, because he had a lot to offer and was never really given the chance to shine. While MM has been around longer and been on 5 albums vs. 1.5 (FII and ACoS), he still seemed to be hindered quite a bit. But nonetheless, there are things that MP, like JR, bring to the table that are exciting. So while from your perspective it looks bad, you can be sure that a lot of thought was given before making this decision, and I can guarantee that it was not as cold hearted as some executive laying off a bunch of people just to make quota; I'm pretty positive that JP (and the other guys) were concerned about MM's feelings, just as MP himself stated he was.

[crystalstars17]

Crystal, I love Mangini too but I think you're overstating the impact of the change. It's not like replacing James or JP.

Oh believe me, lol, my reaction to this is light compared to what it would be if it were James! 

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Why was DS let go?

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Another thing I question is whether Mangini sold himself short by maintaining - at least publicly - he was 'not what Mike was in this.' Even in the end, his second sentence is reminding us that it was not his role to do all of the things that MP did. He was just there to play drums. Maybe he should have tried to fill some of those roles, if he did not. I feel like he sold himself short by just being the replacement drummer. Maybe behind the scenes he was advocating for himself to have more of a role but perhaps this outcome could have been avoided or delayed if he were more adamant about taking on some of MP's million jobs. Ultimately the more things you have your hand in, the harder you are to replace. Indeed that is one of the lessons of MP's tenure.

[Stadler]

Based on the information that has come out, does anyone else get the sense that this whole reunion is something that started with MP and JP, and that JP then pitched it to everyone else in the band?

I don't know...my educated guess is, since MP wish to return to DT someday was kind of a "public knowledge"*, that JP initially approached JR, to feel the pulse of the band, and after that, JM and James. When the 4 agreed, I think JP finally made the ivitation to MP. Of course, I'm totally speculating here. Do you think that maybe there was a phone call with the 4 of them inviting MP? It's possible for sure.
Edited: * I mean, I think I read or saw in some interviews in the last few years, when MP was asked  something along the lines "if was presented the opportunity to come back to DT, what you would do?" and MP responding something like "I would do it in a heartbeat!". But, in all honesty, I'm not 100% sure about this memory. Maybe it was more me reading between the lines.

Well really, MP's comments about returning in a heartbeat happened within the first few years after the split. But over time, I think he got used to not being in the band, and even though he patched things up with JP and JR there was still the distance with JM and especially JL despite efforts to make peace. So I think he became resigned to the idea that he wouldn't return and in later interviews said that he had no desire to return to the band.

Of course, once he played on JP's solo album and did LTE3, and in particular was finally able to patch things up with JL, then there seemed to be a pathway towards his return becoming a possibility. But even then, it wasn't a certainty. JP seemed fairly adamant as late as a year ago when doing his solo tour that MP was not returning to DT. Exactly what changed and when is up for debate.

There are a 100 different things that could have triggered the change, and it's foolhardy to try to guess what they might be.  I do think, though, that no one is mentioning "Family" and I think that it's a mistake to overlook that.  I think we forget that there was over two months where John, Rena, Mike, Marlene and Lisa (I don't know where John Myung was) were all together on a tour bus doing shows.  Can't imagine that had ZERO impact on this decision, however it was actually made.

[Stadler]

Oh, god. Some of the regulars here would probably renounce their fandom if they reintroduced jams together with rotating setlists

Don't be surprised! Well, I kid, but only partially (and less to do with things like setlists).

At this point I'm inclined to walk away for a bit, if for no other reason to let the facts come out (about the way they handled things with MM) and the drama settle down. I honestly get more joy from other bands atm and perhaps not ironically they are for the most part bands who have either handled their drama differently and/or have buried it far in the past by now.
 
Add to everything else the radical change in presentation that you're talking about, it's just becoming not the same band (to me) anymore.

Highlighting the fact that this is just my subjective feelings about it all, but I'm just getting a bit fatigued here, as a fan.

I can totally relate to this post, as this is EXACTLY how I felt in the wake of MP's departure 13 years ago.

William, me too, exactly. 

[Stadler]

You'll be gone for a long time. There are no more facts to come out. They are not going to divulge any more details of their private conversations any time soon, or maybe ever.

And nobody expects that. But the whole "was MM unceremoniously let go" after being welcomed as "family" and then tossed aside when it was convenient just leaves me with, as others have said it, a bad taste in my mouth. I really expected better of them and that said, it's just a little upsetting.

Adding that this is indeed speculation and at the very least I hope that those of us who see it this way are wrong.

Well, you acknowledge this: we have zero idea if any of the bold is actually true.  It is, of course, POSSIBLE, but why would we hold something like that and base feelings on something that we KNOW may not be true?  (And that works both ways, of course).   

I get being happy that Mike's back, because you'll hear his playing in DT again.  I get being upset that Mike's gone, because you WON'T hear his playing in DT again.  Those are feelings based on FACTS.  Everything else, though, is sort of misplaced emotion, no?   I am in the "I am stoked that Portnoy is back" camp, but if it turns out that they sent a fax to Mangini telling him "you're out, bro!" I'll be as upset as you are.   That's low.   But we don't know. Maybe it's my age, or the things I've experienced (divorce will do that to you), but I can't really waste time on emotion based on things I have zero idea actually happened.

[Stadler]

So I'm nearing 59.  The last drummer I played with just hit 60.  When Covid hit, I had to stop playing with our band, because my wife has lupus and other autoimmune conditions and was at very high risk.  He kept going with other projects, but 2 months ago called me out of the blue and asked if i wanted to come over and jam.  I jumped at it.  While we weer talking in between playing, he said, you know, "I've got 10 years at best left where I can do this (drumming is pretty physical). So if you want to keep doing this or do more, let's do it while we can." 

It may just be a similar thing for the guys.  You only have so many years.  Best use them in the way that makes the most sense.

It might be. Or there might be other things in play that we don't know about because so little information has been revealed. But why did it not make sense a year ago and now make all the sense in the world?

I think the easiest answer is probably that JP couldn’t have said anything else than to affirm that Mangini was the guy at that point. They were still in the middle of a touring cycle. Anything less than what he said opens the door to the type of speculation he wanted to avoid. And of course at that point he may have not been considering a reunion with MP in DT, but a year is plenty of time for someone’s feelings and perspective to change (it looks like that quote was at the start of his solo tour, so in between that quote and the time they made the change, JP had completed separate tours with each guy. The differences in those experiences could have reshaped his thinking).

You raise an interesting point - one that I have avoided but cannot be ruled out. No one can preclude that JP thought one thing but said another. I personally start from the presumption that these guys mean what they say in public. However, I take your implied point that it is possible that his thoughts did not align with what he felt he had to say at that point.

You can, to a point.  You always have to read carefully, and you always have to parse out WHAT is being said. John was VERY careful in his words. He never said that Portnoy rejoining DT was never going to happen or anything like that.  He ONLY said that they were separate things, and the one (MP is doing the solo tour) doesn't necessarily mean the other (he'd be back in DT).  I don't actually see a lot of problem with what John said even now knowing what I do.  EVEN IF the intention was always to bring back Portnoy, John's statements AT THAT TIME were or could be truthful. 

What if John said to Mike:  "Look, I miss playing with you bro, but there's a LOT of water under the bridge. Plus we've got a guy and James and Jordan LOVE him.  So let's just keep things separate for now.  Play the tour, play the LTE and we see how the next DT cycle plays out."  WE DON'T KNOW.   John might not have been thrilled about the recent AVFTTOTW tour(s) and building off the solo tour (and the family angle) and decided that maybe it's not so separate after all.  That he wants to play with Portnoy again doesn't mean he doesn't like playing with Mangini or that Mangini is a bad guy.  He's not a guy that they went through fire with from the age of 18, though. 

One other point:  12 years from 44 to 56 is not the same as 12 years from 18 to 30.  Steve Morse was in Deep Purple for close to 30 years.  30 years!  Does anyone not associated Ritchie Blackmore with the guitars for Deep Purple?    Tommy Thayer has been in Kiss for 21 years. Ace's first run was eight years.  Who do you think of when you think of Kiss and guitar players?  Okay, besides Vinnie Vincent, that is. 

[DTwwbwMP]

IMO, this was ALWAYS inevitable! I'm shocked and saddened it took THIS LONG but here we are and I could not be more thankful! As a fan since 1992, MP & DT are like peanut butter & jelly...a NATURAL FIT! Absolutely no offense to MM who is a great drummer (although not my type) AND seemingly agenuinely nice guy, but outside of their first album together (ADTOE) IMO, DT had become "just another good band" and had lost the "special sauce" that made them one of the greatest! Now with MP back, let's see of they can reclaim their past glory (please don't bring up the useless Grammy they won. That means ZILCH to me, especially for such a disaster of a song like the alien). Here's to hopefully 7-10 years of REAL DT both studio and especially LIVE wise!

[EvantheMotel6Owmer]

IMO, this was ALWAYS inevitable! I'm shocked and saddened it took THIS LONG but here we are and I could not be more thankful! As a fan since 1992, MP & DT are like peanut butter & jelly...a NATURAL FIT! Absolutely no offense to MM who is a great drummer (although not my type) AND seemingly agenuinely nice guy, but outside of their first album together (ADTOE) IMO, DT had become "just another good band" and had lost the "special sauce" that made them one of the greatest! Now with MP back, let's see of they can reclaim their past glory (please don't bring up the useless Grammy they won. That means ZILCH to me, especially for such a disaster of a song like the alien). Here's to hopefully 7-10 years of REAL DT both studio and especially LIVE wise!

This basically hits the nail right on the head as far as my opinion goes (though I don't consider The Alien a disaster).

[crystalstars17]

I can't really waste time on emotion based on things I have zero idea actually happened.

I agree with what you're saying, but the only "emotion" being experienced here at the end of the day is disappointment. Would you call that misplaced? You said you agreed with one of my posts above about currently having fandom fatigue. Were your own emotions misplaced 13 years ago when you experienced the same? If I were going around actually believing the "MM was fired" wild speculation wholeheartedly, then maybe you'd have a point, but I'm not. I am simply disappointed, mainly because they embraced MM fully at first and even called him "family" (as was mentioned in an earlier post) and now it's like oh nevermind, you're not family anymore. Who even does that? People in middle school? Sorry but it just looks like he's been kicked out of the cool kids' club.

Again this is not personal against either MP or anyone else in the band, nor anyone here. It's just an observation - and not mine alone - based on what has been said and discussed to date. All we do know is that MM is out/MP is in, but however it happened I only hope that MM was not wronged in any way. And at this point it looks like the only way he wasn't is if he were told from he very beginning that this scenario was always a possibility. If THAT comes out as a fact, then that's all I would need to shut up. 

[wolfking]

I don't understand people taking this so personally.  Who cares how it played out.  DT is a business as much as it is a band and a group of mates.  This classic lineup is untouched. It's great to have it back.

Sucks for MM but why cry for him?  Would he care if any of us lost our jobs?  I think not.

[TAC]

Sucks for MM but why cry for him?  Would he care if any of us lost our jobs?  I think not.

This is something my wife would say.

[Progmaniac1988]

I think DT is just one of those bands that have so many fans with big personalities and preferences that a portion will always be unhappy. This didn’t just happen with MP returning. It Happened when He initially quit. That man got SO much shit from his fans. Some people were borderline psychotic to the guy. MM had a very hard time when he first joined. At the time 80% would not accept the loss of Portnoy. Now MM was with DT 13 years, long enough to get his own loyal following. So now many of that group is unhappy with Portnoy returning, but Many fans like myself are excited about it. Hell some people still want Kevin Moore back still to this day. Which I personally don’t ever want. Rudess all the way! Point is this band is polarizing! Us fans will always have our opinions, but the fact is DT belongs to the members of the band not the fans. It belongs to DT and they can choose to continue however they want because they are making the music not the fans. So I think we should just respect their decision and wait for the new album before we draw conclusions. I for one am so excited for this line up to be back at it! Nearly 40 years of DT guys. It’s time celebrate not to fight. All of us here have one thing in common, we all adore this band one way or another. So let’s just be excited on what’s to come. Sorry if that went on a bit!

[TAC]

I think DT is just one of those bands that have so many fans with big personalities and preferences that a portion will always be unhappy. This didn’t just happen with MP returning. It Happened when He initially quit. That man got SO much shit from his fans. Some people were borderline psychotic to the guy. MM had a very hard time when he first joined. At the time 80% would not accept the loss of Portnoy. Now MM was with DT 13 years, long enough to get his own loyal following. So now many of that group is unhappy with Portnoy returning, but Many fans like myself are excited about it. Hell some people still want Kevin Moore back still to this day. Which I personally don’t ever want. Rudess all the way! Point is this band is polarizing! Us fans will always have our opinions, but the fact is DT belongs to the members of the band not the fans. It belongs to DT and they can choose to continue however they want because they are making the music not the fans. So I think we should just respect their decision and wait for the new album before we draw conclusions. I for one am so excited for this line up to be back at it! Nearly 40 years of DT guys. It’s time celebrate not to fight. All of us here have one thing in common, we all adore this band one way or another. So let’s just be excited on what’s to come. Sorry if that went on a bit!

WUT?

[pg1067]

I think DT is just one of those bands that have so many fans with big personalities and preferences that a portion will always be unhappy. This didn’t just happen with MP returning. It Happened when He initially quit. That man got SO much shit from his fans. Some people were borderline psychotic to the guy. MM had a very hard time when he first joined. At the time 80% would not accept the loss of Portnoy. Now MM was with DT 13 years, long enough to get his own loyal following. So now many of that group is unhappy with Portnoy returning, but Many fans like myself are excited about it. Hell some people still want Kevin Moore back still to this day. Which I personally don’t ever want. Rudess all the way! Point is this band is polarizing! Us fans will always have our opinions, but the fact is DT belongs to the members of the band not the fans. It belongs to DT and they can choose to continue however they want because they are making the music not the fans. So I think we should just respect their decision and wait for the new album before we draw conclusions. I for one am so excited for this line up to be back at it! Nearly 40 years of DT guys. It’s time celebrate not to fight. All of us here have one thing in common, we all adore this band one way or another. So let’s just be excited on what’s to come. Sorry if that went on a bit!

WUT?

Yeah...that's just not true at all.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I don't understand people taking this so personally.  Who cares how it played out.  DT is a business as much as it is a band and a group of mates.  This classic lineup is untouched. It's great to have it back.

Sucks for MM but why cry for him?  Would he care if any of us lost our jobs?  I think not.

I won't speak for anyone else who is expressing dissatisfaction but in my case I am actually solely 100% disappointed about the difference this is going to make in the musical product. In terms of the music I think Mangini made this band a F1 race car and that for 12 years you had 4 instrumentalists operating on the exact same plane at the highest level in the business. Now we are going back to the old line up which is certainly not that, though it is still a good product. That's really the only thing I care about. I&W and ACoS aside, DT with MM was the best progressive metal music I've ever heard.

We Mangini enthusiasts are having a moment to express our disappointment - the same way thousands of people did when MP left and did not stop until he eventually came back 13 years later. At the end of the day the new music will either make it all better or not and life will go on. This is still fresh and in a weird kind of way it is fun to speculate on what happened. However at the end of the day the proof is in the pudding and the only thing that matters is whether DT16, 17 and 18 have any pudding.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

So I'm nearing 59.  The last drummer I played with just hit 60.  When Covid hit, I had to stop playing with our band, because my wife has lupus and other autoimmune conditions and was at very high risk.  He kept going with other projects, but 2 months ago called me out of the blue and asked if i wanted to come over and jam.  I jumped at it.  While we weer talking in between playing, he said, you know, "I've got 10 years at best left where I can do this (drumming is pretty physical). So if you want to keep doing this or do more, let's do it while we can." 

It may just be a similar thing for the guys.  You only have so many years.  Best use them in the way that makes the most sense.

It might be. Or there might be other things in play that we don't know about because so little information has been revealed. But why did it not make sense a year ago and now make all the sense in the world?

I think the easiest answer is probably that JP couldn’t have said anything else than to affirm that Mangini was the guy at that point. They were still in the middle of a touring cycle. Anything less than what he said opens the door to the type of speculation he wanted to avoid. And of course at that point he may have not been considering a reunion with MP in DT, but a year is plenty of time for someone’s feelings and perspective to change (it looks like that quote was at the start of his solo tour, so in between that quote and the time they made the change, JP had completed separate tours with each guy. The differences in those experiences could have reshaped his thinking).

You raise an interesting point - one that I have avoided but cannot be ruled out. No one can preclude that JP thought one thing but said another. I personally start from the presumption that these guys mean what they say in public. However, I take your implied point that it is possible that his thoughts did not align with what he felt he had to say at that point.

You can, to a point.  You always have to read carefully, and you always have to parse out WHAT is being said. John was VERY careful in his words. He never said that Portnoy rejoining DT was never going to happen or anything like that.  He ONLY said that they were separate things, and the one (MP is doing the solo tour) doesn't necessarily mean the other (he'd be back in DT).  I don't actually see a lot of problem with what John said even now knowing what I do.  EVEN IF the intention was always to bring back Portnoy, John's statements AT THAT TIME were or could be truthful. 

What if John said to Mike:  "Look, I miss playing with you bro, but there's a LOT of water under the bridge. Plus we've got a guy and James and Jordan LOVE him.  So let's just keep things separate for now.  Play the tour, play the LTE and we see how the next DT cycle plays out."  WE DON'T KNOW.   John might not have been thrilled about the recent AVFTTOTW tour(s) and building off the solo tour (and the family angle) and decided that maybe it's not so separate after all.  That he wants to play with Portnoy again doesn't mean he doesn't like playing with Mangini or that Mangini is a bad guy.  He's not a guy that they went through fire with from the age of 18, though. 

One other point:  12 years from 44 to 56 is not the same as 12 years from 18 to 30.  Steve Morse was in Deep Purple for close to 30 years.  30 years!  Does anyone not associated Ritchie Blackmore with the guitars for Deep Purple?    Tommy Thayer has been in Kiss for 21 years. Ace's first run was eight years.  Who do you think of when you think of Kiss and guitar players?  Okay, besides Vinnie Vincent, that is.

Yes, he was extremely careful about what he said as he always is. He immediately and unequivocally shut down the prospect of a reunion. He didn't rule it out forever and I suspect that if a reunion happened 10 years after this interview no one would raise an eyebrow but I do find it a bit interesting how quickly the reunion happened after he publicly shut it down. The speed with which his actions departed from his words makes me think something changed for him. You're right that he could have just been misleading-- or outright lying-- us or giving some hyper-legalistic answer...but I highly doubt it. I think when he shut it down he was really under the impression that there was no serious near term prospect of a reunion that would necessitate Mangini's dismissal. And whatever happened in that period of a year is anyone's guess.

I believe that friendship and family was a driving force but I have a hunch there were other factors. I've said what I think played a role but I am not disagreeing the personal element was critical.