2023 NFL Thread v Super Bowl matchup: Chiefs vs. 49ers

[cramx3]

Hard to say whether that is truly what the issue is, and it's easy for us on the outside to make those assumptions.

100%, just my thoughts based on almost nothing but what I can see from my view.  And I even just think of it as a possibility.

[Stadler]

Look, the idea was that the game passed Bill Parcells by, because he was "too tough".  Well, his last gig was Dallas from 2003 to 2006, and from that point on, Bill went to the AFC Championship and five Super Bowls, winning three. 

Shanahan is a tough coach.  Tomlin is a tough coach.  John Harbaugh is a tough coach.  Hell, Jim Harbaugh was just hired and he has a reputation as a coach who is tough on his players.   

Honestly, I think it has more to do with analytics than toughness. 

[TAC]

Yeah, the game passing Bill by sentiment doesn't really have anything to do with how tough he is.

[Stadler]

Yeah, the game passing Bill by sentiment doesn't really have anything to do with how tough he is.

Well, I don't think the game HAS passed him by.  Sure, it might be a little harder to find guys that will put in the effort, but you can't tell me there's not 55 players in the NFL right now that wouldn't put in the effort for Bill if they had the chance.

I frankly think the Patriots bailed on him too soon.  I think it is borderline disrespectful, actually. 

[TAC]

I frankly think the Patriots bailed on him too soon.  I think it is borderline disrespectful, actually.

That's a hot take. I couldn't disagree more.

[bosk1]

Yeah, the game passing Bill by sentiment doesn't really have anything to do with how tough he is.

Well, I don't think the game HAS passed him by.  Sure, it might be a little harder to find guys that will put in the effort, but you can't tell me there's not 55 players in the NFL right now that wouldn't put in the effort for Bill if they had the chance.

I frankly think the Patriots bailed on him too soon.  I think it is borderline disrespectful, actually. 

As a coach, I think you are right.  But I have no problem with them scaling back his other roles.

[Stadler]

I frankly think the Patriots bailed on him too soon.  I think it is borderline disrespectful, actually.

That's a hot take. I couldn't disagree more.

Two seasons.  Two seasons, and they bailed on the greatest coach in the history of the game in favor of a coach that has ZERO head coaching experience and a quarterback that has proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he does not have the strength of character to be an elite quarterback in the NFL.  The Dolphins gave Shula EIGHT years to turn it around.  Look at Tomlin.   I think you sit down with him, O'Brien, and say look, we're done with Mac Jones, let's plan the future right now.  You get to draft, you get to cut the players down to 55, but we're moving in another direction than Mac Jones whether you like it or not.

[hunnus2000]

I frankly think the Patriots bailed on him too soon.  I think it is borderline disrespectful, actually.

That's a hot take. I couldn't disagree more.

BB is the GOAT of OVERATED!

Two seasons.  Two seasons, and they bailed on the greatest coach in the history of the game in favor of a coach that has ZERO head coaching experience and a quarterback that has proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he does not have the strength of character to be an elite quarterback in the NFL.  The Dolphins gave Shula EIGHT years to turn it around.  Look at Tomlin.   I think you sit down with him, O'Brien, and say look, we're done with Mac Jones, let's plan the future right now.  You get to draft, you get to cut the players down to 55, but we're moving in another direction than Mac Jones whether you like it or not.

[Cool Chris]

I know this is old, but I just saw it. This is how all penalties need to be called.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNNchN6LCtw

[Orbert]

[hefdaddy42]

That's fantastic.

[faizoff]

I know this is old, but I just saw it. This is how all penalties need to be called.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNNchN6LCtw

I’ve never seen this before. That was great 

[hunnus2000]

I frankly think the Patriots bailed on him too soon.  I think it is borderline disrespectful, actually.

That's a hot take. I couldn't disagree more.

Two seasons.  Two seasons, and they bailed on the greatest coach in the history of the game in favor of a coach that has ZERO head coaching experience and a quarterback that has proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he does not have the strength of character to be an elite quarterback in the NFL.  The Dolphins gave Shula EIGHT years to turn it around.  Look at Tomlin.   I think you sit down with him, O'Brien, and say look, we're done with Mac Jones, let's plan the future right now.  You get to draft, you get to cut the players down to 55, but we're moving in another direction than Mac Jones whether you like it or not.

Dude, I am not sure that I understand this post but from I gather, you have your information incorrect:

1) There are plenty of first year head coaches that have had success. Kyle Shanahan, Demeco Ryans. Have you ever heard of them?
2) And where do you get that Miami gave Shula 8 years to turn things around? Was that in his contract? Shula was a first year success with the Fins and after that first year, he went to 3 Super Bowls in a row winning 2 of them.
3) BB, after TB, he had 3 losing seasons and Mac got them to the playoffs his first year. After that, BB went out and ruined him for reasons I have already explained.
 
So in conclusion, what are you talking about? Oh, and you use Mike Tomlin as an example? He won the SB his second year in the league and that's it which is over 10 years ago. Why would you use him as an example?

And people want to get rid of Mike McCarthy after 4 years. Geez.........

[bosk1]

I guess Stadler can answer for himself, but I don't see what anything you are saying (or at least most of it) has to do with what Stadler said.

[hunnus2000]

I guess Stadler can answer for himself, but I don't see what anything you are saying (or at least most of it) has to do with what Stadler said.

Well if I took anything incorrectly then I guess he can tell me.

[emtee]

I was suffering through football withdrawal symptoms this weekend and ended up watching bowling. It's been at least 35 years since I've done so. Apparently they use 2 hands now. Not sure when this happened. I remember Dick Weber. That's the beginning and end of my bowling knowledge.

[hefdaddy42]

I was suffering through football withdrawal symptoms this weekend and ended up watching bowling. It's been at least 35 years since I've done so. Apparently they use 2 hands now. Not sure when this happened. I remember Dick Weber. That's the beginning and end of my bowling knowledge.

Do you mean Pete Weber?  That's the only pro bowler I remember.

Legend.

[emtee]

Yep.

[DragonAttack]

Father and son, and I'm old enough to remember watching them both

Two football related notes:  Mahomes' dad arrested for his second DWI over the weekend. Oops.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39460077/patrick-mahomes-sr-arrested-texas-dwi-charge

Jaguars:  have asked FanDuel to reimburse them for some or all of the approximately $20 million in stolen proceeds a former employee lost on the site.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39444143/jacksonville-jaguars-fanduel-amit-patel-stolen-millions

Stuff like this drives me crazy.  There's checks and balances, or there's supposed to be, to prevent $2000 from being used, much less $20M.

[Stadler]

I guess Stadler can answer for himself, but I don't see what anything you are saying (or at least most of it) has to do with what Stadler said.

Well if I took anything incorrectly then I guess he can tell me.

HAHA, are you kidding?  You took ALL of it incorrectly.  Par for the course.

1. Never once ever said that first year coaches can't have success.  I'm saying that there was no need to change from Belichick UNLESS YOU KNOW YOU'RE DOING BETTER.  First year coaches are NOT a guarantee of success.  I wish Jerrod Mayo the best, but there's no criteria under which you can FOR CERTAIN say he is an UPGRADE to Belichick. That's all I said.
2. Shula; after they lost to the Pats in the AFC Championship game, the next eight years he went .500 or worse four times, another year 8-7, and another year 9-7.  It was only in his seventh season from his last Championship game that he made it back (so I guess "seven seasons to turn it around" is more accurate). 
3. Agree to disagree.  His last year with Brady he was 12-4 and lost the wildcard game.  Next season, with a has-been at QB, he was one game under .500 (with at least two games lost DIRECTLY because the has-been was exactly that) and the following season he made the playoffs with a rookie QB.  Then the next season, Mac started to showed his true colors once the league had a chance to go round and watch film, then completely faded last year.  TWO YEARS. I do not buy into the blame game that attributes Mac's performance to Belichick.  There was NOTHING, for example, about that lame duck interception against the Colts (in the game that supposedly sealed Belichick's fate) that was even remotely attributable to Bill.  It was a conservative route, well-run, and it was a relatively easy read,  but Mac simply threw the ball five yards (at least) off target.  He couldn't have made a better throw had he targeted that defensive back.   

[hefdaddy42]

Kliff Kingsbury hired as OC for the Commanders.

Sorry, but that is the kind of hire that rubs me the wrong way.  This is the kind of "white guy getting another chance regardless of his actual record" hire that almost never happens with black coaches.

As a coach/coordinator, he was a pretty good college QB and a pretty awful NFL QB.  He's been handed job after job ever since.  I don't get it.

[Dream Team]

LOL Reid has activated Kadarius Toney for the Super Bowl. He must have dropped $1,000,000 on the Niners or something. 

[Stadler]

Sorry, but that is the kind of hire that rubs me the wrong way.  This is the kind of "white guy getting another chance regardless of his actual record" hire that almost never happens with black coaches.

Oh, don't worry; the recycling of bad black coaches (as opposed to the recycling of bad white coaches) is ramping up!!!  Raheem Morris (0.356 winning percentage in two stints as head coach, but now the coach of the Falcons), Todd Bowles (24-40 as head coach of the Jets, but brought in to Tampa Bay where he's lit it up at.....   17-17 over two seasons with a team that won a Super Bowl more or less), Brian Flores (24-25 in three seasons in Miami). 

The problem isn't color, the problem is that the majority of NFL owners lack any imagination, and lack the real knowledge of what it takes to sustain excellence over time.

[hefdaddy42]

Sorry, but that is the kind of hire that rubs me the wrong way.  This is the kind of "white guy getting another chance regardless of his actual record" hire that almost never happens with black coaches.

Oh, don't worry; the recycling of bad black coaches (as opposed to the recycling of bad white coaches) is ramping up!!!  Raheem Morris (0.356 winning percentage in two stints as head coach, but now the coach of the Falcons), Todd Bowles (24-40 as head coach of the Jets, but brought in to Tampa Bay where he's lit it up at.....   17-17 over two seasons with a team that won a Super Bowl more or less), Brian Flores (24-25 in three seasons in Miami). 

The problem isn't color, the problem is that the majority of NFL owners lack any imagination, and lack the real knowledge of what it takes to sustain excellence over time.

I get it.  I think that Kingsbury as an individual just rubs me the wrong way lol.  Looking at his career is a series of WTFs.

[Jamesman42]

Who do you guys see winning, and why? Does SF's defense overcome the magic of Mahomes? Is Purdy going to win in the big game?

[DragonAttack]

LOL Reid has activated Kadarius Toney for the Super Bowl. He must have dropped $1,000,000 on the Niners or something. 

If anyone dropped anything, it would be Toney. <rim shot>

Kingsbury:  agreed.....and yet, he was good for 3/4 of a season(s) when he had Murray at QB.  He coached Mahomes and Mayfield at Texas Tech as HC, and coached Caleb Williams at USC.  Maybe that's who DC drafts.

SB pick:  how does the Chiefs damn good D overcome the loss of two starters?  Do we get a 34-31 shootout or 20-17 game?  I'll flip a coin, unless KC has the ball last......

I'm just hoping one of my squares matches.

[hefdaddy42]

I'm picking San Fran 27-23.

[bosk1]

Who do you guys see winning, and why? Does SF's defense overcome the magic of Mahomes? Is Purdy going to win in the big game?

Who:  Niners.

Why:  I just think they end up playing better football on both sides of the ball, taking performance over the entire course of the season into account.  Although KC has the "better" overall defense, it's a different picture when you break it down.  They are a great pass defending defense, and great when the game situation requires the other team to pass a lot.  But (1) they aren't a great run defense and are very vulnerable in that aspect of the game, and the 49ers' running game is...well, you know; and (2) Purdy and the 49ers' pass offense tend to do well against most of the specific things KC likes to run on defense.  I think McCaffrey could very well end up looking like the MVP the first half with a dominant run performance, and then the way Shanahan calls plays and builds one thing off of another, I think that could really open up the passing game for the second half. 

The Chiefs' offense has been inconsistent and error-prone all season.  While I don't expect a repeat of them managing only 17 points like they did against the Ravens, struggling to score points has been an ongoing problem for them.  Much like Detroit viewed the game, I think it's going to be a "race to 30+" and I'm just not sure the Chiefs can get close enough to 30 to get the win. 

So based on that, while I think it's tempting to pick a close game, I see it likely to unfold how a lot of 49ers games have all season, where it's close for a half, or maybe until midway in the third quarter, and then they just start to pull away based on all the things they set up earlier in the game, and it ends up being a pretty lopsided final score.  That's what I think.  But these are two great coaches who come up with great game plans and have really good players that can execute the plans, so I would not be shocked to see something very different play out either.

[bosk1]

I will also add that, while many in the media simply want to say "BUT MAHOMES!" and leave it at that, Purdy has had a MUCH better season.  He hasn't proven that he is better than Mahomes--don't get me wrong.  But he has proven that he has had a better season this year. 

He has broken a bunch of records (some held by Montana and Young).  He has a .808 winning percentage as a starter (OK, that's going back to last year as well, and one could argue that winning is a team effort, and that would be correct).  He passed for 9.2 yards per attempt, which is #1 among starting QBs.  He had a 47-14 touchdown-to-interception ratio, which is #1.  He had a 111.2 passer rating, which is #1.  And if we go stat by stat, he is top 5 in virtually EVERYTHING. 

[Jamesman42]

bosk I am scared to see you post if the 49ers win. You're going to actually explode.

[lonestar]

Curious to see if the arrest of Mahomes' dad has an effect on his game. From what it sounds like the guy is a regular at the county drunk tank, but at some point the DWI's go from hefty fines, classes and restricted license to a few years in big boy jail, and seeing he's sitting at 5 he's gotta be getting close.

[bosk1]

bosk I am scared to see you post if the 49ers win. You're going to actually explode.

Not sure what you mean.  You asked a question, and I directly answered it, so...? 

[The Realm]

I will also add that, while many in the media simply want to say "BUT MAHOMES!" and leave it at that, Purdy has had a MUCH better season.  He hasn't proven that he is better than Mahomes--don't get me wrong.  But he has proven that he has had a better season this year. 

He has broken a bunch of records (some held by Montana and Young).  He has a .808 winning percentage as a starter (OK, that's going back to last year as well, and one could argue that winning is a team effort, and that would be correct).  He passed for 9.2 yards per attempt, which is #1 among starting QBs.  He had a 47-14 touchdown-to-interception ratio, which is #1.  He had a 111.2 passer rating, which is #1.  And if we go stat by stat, he is top 5 in virtually EVERYTHING.

Including dropped interceptions.

[bosk1]

Haha.  But you actually made me curious enough to try to Google whether anyone keeps that stat, and I think the answer is 'no,' unfortunately.  I did find that anecdotally, someone on Reddit actually tried to keep track of that last season, and Geno Smith was allegedly #1.  I'd be curious to know how starting QBs ranked in that area.  But just from games I've seen this year, I'm positive Purdy isn't at the top of that list.

[The Realm]

Haha.  But you actually made me curious enough to try to Google whether anyone keeps that stat, and I think the answer is 'no,' unfortunately.  I did find that anecdotally, someone on Reddit actually tried to keep track of that last season, and Geno Smith was allegedly #1.  I'd be curious to know how starting QBs ranked in that area.  But just from games I've seen this year, I'm positive Purdy isn't at the top of that list.

I've been told it is Tua at 1 and Purdy at 2 but yes, it isn't an official stat.....