2023 NFL Thread v Super Bowl matchup: Chiefs vs. 49ers

[KevShmev]

Let's get this rolling.

The Ravens tagged Lamar Jackson.

A. Rodgers might be a Jet very soon.

[Dublagent66]

Carr a Saint. 

Looks like Rodgers following the footsteps of Favre.  Good thing for Rodgers that the Jets are a way better team now than then.

[bosk1]

Carr a Saint. 

Far from it, from what I've heard.  But he is going to play for New Orleans.

[Stadler]

Carr a Saint. 

Looks like Rodgers following the footsteps of Favre.  Good thing for Rodgers that the Jets are a way better team now than then.

My hemorrhoid is way better now than it was.  That's not saying much.  They are still the Jets.

What's up with the Gints?  Are they going to have to franchise Jones?

[Stadler]

Carr a Saint. 

Far from it, from what I've heard.  But he is going to play for New Orleans.

Is that true?  I've not spent any time looking into it, but I always thought he wasn't a great fit for the Raiders BECAUSE he was something of a goody-two-shoes.

[Dublagent66]

Carr a Saint. 

Far from it, from what I've heard.  But he is going to play for New Orleans.

I walked right into that one. 

[faizoff]

Carr a Saint. 

Far from it, from what I've heard.  But he is going to play for New Orleans.

LMAO. yeah curious what the QB situation is for the rest of the NFC South. Falcons were supposed to be interested in Lamar and then ....they weren't?
It would be hilarious if Rodges takes the full Favre path and joins the Vikings after the Jets.

[Dublagent66]

Carr a Saint. 

Looks like Rodgers following the footsteps of Favre.  Good thing for Rodgers that the Jets are a way better team now than then.

My hemorrhoid is way better now than it was.  That's not saying much.  They are still the Jets.

What's up with the Gints?  Are they going to have to franchise Jones?

TMI as usual.   Just in case your memory ain't so good anymore, the Pats and Saints were also pretty bad for decades at a time, once upon a time.

Carr a Saint. 

Far from it, from what I've heard.  But he is going to play for New Orleans.

Is that true?  I've not spent any time looking into it, but I always thought he wasn't a great fit for the Raiders BECAUSE he was something of a goody-two-shoes.

When you're with a team for 10 seasons and don't have a single playoff win, you're not a great fit.

[Stadler]

Carr a Saint. 

Looks like Rodgers following the footsteps of Favre.  Good thing for Rodgers that the Jets are a way better team now than then.

My hemorrhoid is way better now than it was.  That's not saying much.  They are still the Jets.

What's up with the Gints?  Are they going to have to franchise Jones?

TMI as usual.   Just in case your memory ain't so good anymore, the Pats and Saints were also pretty bad for decades at a time, once upon a time.

Thankfully I was being facetious!     No, my memory is fine; the "'Aint's".  And I live in northern CT so I'm familiar with the travails of the Giants, Jets and Patriots.  The Jets have just taken it to a new level.   

Carr a Saint. 

Far from it, from what I've heard.  But he is going to play for New Orleans.

Is that true?  I've not spent any time looking into it, but I always thought he wasn't a great fit for the Raiders BECAUSE he was something of a goody-two-shoes.

When you're with a team for 10 seasons and don't have a single playoff win, you're not a great fit.

No doubt; I always had a thing for the Raiders since Madden was there, and I thought with Gruden they were turning the corner, but alas, fate would have it.  I just don't know WHY he wasn't a good fit.  He's smart and capable.   I think on the right team he could actually do something. I want to see now if Daniel Jones can sustain his growth, but if he can't I would have thought Carr would have been perfect in New York.


By the way, I asked about Jones and about three minutes later I got the update on my phone that he signed and Barkley got the franchise tag.  I don't think Barkley is going to be sending Jones any Xmas gifts this year!

[El Barto]

I can understand Rogers wanting out of GB. For the life of me I can't wrap my head around wanting to play for the Jets. Shirley there are real teams that would have paid for his services and offered something other than losing in return. Raiders would have been a better fit.

I'd like to see the contract they gave Daniel Jones. If it doesn't offer easy escape clauses it was a bad deal. You can't pay that dude what he was looking for based on one good season after several weak ones.

I think Carr will probably do well in NOLA.


edit: Looks like 4/60m for Daniel Jones with 82m guaranteed. Forty million a year for him isn't bad if they're not married to him for the entire term. It might turn out to be a bargain, but you can't ignore the albatross scenario.

[Stadler]

Cleveland sure changed the landscape with that Watson guaranteed deal, didn't they.  That the Browns are dumb shouldn't mean everyone else has to be (looking at you, Baltimore).  I'm a HUGE Lamar Jackson fan - I think he's a top three QB in the league if he's healthy - and even I think giving him what he's asking is dumb (for LJ, it's all about the guaranteed money).

[El Barto]

Cleveland sure changed the landscape with that Watson guaranteed deal, didn't they.  That the Browns are dumb shouldn't mean everyone else has to be (looking at you, Baltimore).  I'm a HUGE Lamar Jackson fan - I think he's a top three QB in the league if he's healthy - and even I think giving him what he's asking is dumb (for LJ, it's all about the guaranteed money).

I'd tag and trade that fool in a heartbeat. His not playing in the playoffs should have left a really sour taste in the mouths of everybody in Balt.

[KevShmev]

Cleveland sure changed the landscape with that Watson guaranteed deal, didn't they.  That the Browns are dumb shouldn't mean everyone else has to be (looking at you, Baltimore).  I'm a HUGE Lamar Jackson fan - I think he's a top three QB in the league if he's healthy - and even I think giving him what he's asking is dumb (for LJ, it's all about the guaranteed money).

Wait a minute, I thought you were a "a QB needs to do in the playoffs" guy.  Jackson hasn't been good in the playoffs at all.  I cannot think of any way I'd call him a top 3 QB in the NFL right now.  Yes, he was amazing in the 2019 regular season, and he hasn't been close that great since. And he cannot stay healthy.  I think the Ravens have played this just right.

I can understand Rogers wanting out of GB. For the life of me I can't wrap my head around wanting to play for the Jets. Shirley there are real teams that would have paid for his services and offered something other than losing in return. Raiders would have been a better fit.

What I don't get are some Jets fans who apparently want no part of Rodgers.  I am like, are you freaking kidding me?  Your franchise has had crap at QB for most of the last 30 years!!  I think Rodgers' average 2022 season had more to do with him being done with GB than anything else.  Once he goes to another team, he will be motivated to be great again just to stick it to the Packers.

[T-ski]

I hope Rodgers to the Jets comes to fruition. I can't see Rodgers being able to work the NY media the same as the Green Bay media. I also expect Jets fan will turn on him by mid season.

Basically, as long as Rodgers is done in Green Bay I'll be happy.

[bosk1]

Basically, as long as Rodgers is done in Green Bay I'll be happy.

Me too.  Looking forward to being able to root for GB again.

[Stadler]

Cleveland sure changed the landscape with that Watson guaranteed deal, didn't they.  That the Browns are dumb shouldn't mean everyone else has to be (looking at you, Baltimore).  I'm a HUGE Lamar Jackson fan - I think he's a top three QB in the league if he's healthy - and even I think giving him what he's asking is dumb (for LJ, it's all about the guaranteed money).

Wait a minute, I thought you were a "a QB needs to do in the playoffs" guy.  Jackson hasn't been good in the playoffs at all.  I cannot think of any way I'd call him a top 3 QB in the NFL right now.  Yes, he was amazing in the 2019 regular season, and he hasn't been close that great since. And he cannot stay healthy.  I think the Ravens have played this just right.

No, you're 100% right.  He hasn't.  I just think of all the other guys that haven't he probably has - and it's maybe HAD - the best potential of the lot, is all. He hasn't had half the weapons that some of the other QBs in the league have had, and he's playing for a coach that is not known for being an offensive Gandalf.   But it's a big "IF", since he HASN'T been healthy, and I'm with Barto, in that he really showed his (lack of) character in how he handled the end of this past season. 

Either way, he's not a guy I'm giving guaranteed money to.  I'm not sure I can name a QB I would give big-time guaranteed money to (and no, even though that includes Mahomes, that's not a dig at him. I just think that's stupid to pay players for what they don't do).

I can understand Rogers wanting out of GB. For the life of me I can't wrap my head around wanting to play for the Jets. Shirley there are real teams that would have paid for his services and offered something other than losing in return. Raiders would have been a better fit.

What I don't get are some Jets fans who apparently want no part of Rodgers.  I am like, are you freaking kidding me?  Your franchise has had crap at QB for most of the last 30 years!!  I think Rodgers' average 2022 season had more to do with him being done with GB than anything else.  Once he goes to another team, he will be motivated to be great again just to stick it to the Packers.

And let's not forget: an average Rodgers season is still better than most guys in the league.  Almost 3700 yards (11th), 65% completion percentage, 26 TDs (7th) against only 12 INTs (same as Mahomes).

Raiders are a little of a surprise, but given the ages, and the system, I don't think Rodgers is a trade up from Carr (I LIKE Carr).

[pg1067]

What I don't get are some Jets fans who apparently want no part of Rodgers.  I am like, are you freaking kidding me?

A year ago, some Broncos fans were saying they didn't want Russell Wilson.  Some found that mindset crazy.  I can't speak for Jets fans, but I sure as heck wouldn't want a 39 year old head case with a BAD attitude on my team - especially not given his contract situation.

[Skeever]

Cleveland sure changed the landscape with that Watson guaranteed deal, didn't they.  That the Browns are dumb shouldn't mean everyone else has to be (looking at you, Baltimore).  I'm a HUGE Lamar Jackson fan - I think he's a top three QB in the league if he's healthy - and even I think giving him what he's asking is dumb (for LJ, it's all about the guaranteed money).

Wait a minute, I thought you were a "a QB needs to do in the playoffs" guy.  Jackson hasn't been good in the playoffs at all.  I cannot think of any way I'd call him a top 3 QB in the NFL right now.  Yes, he was amazing in the 2019 regular season, and he hasn't been close that great since. And he cannot stay healthy.  I think the Ravens have played this just right.

I can understand Rogers wanting out of GB. For the life of me I can't wrap my head around wanting to play for the Jets. Shirley there are real teams that would have paid for his services and offered something other than losing in return. Raiders would have been a better fit.

What I don't get are some Jets fans who apparently want no part of Rodgers.  I am like, are you freaking kidding me?  Your franchise has had crap at QB for most of the last 30 years!!  I think Rodgers' average 2022 season had more to do with him being done with GB than anything else.  Once he goes to another team, he will be motivated to be great again just to stick it to the Packers.

Fans are nuts. Plain and simple. I think most fans actually hate rooting for their teams, or enjoy worrying about their teams more than they enjoy actually just enjoying the ups and downs.

As a Jets fan, Rodgers makes sense. You have an emerging team with no immediate "must pay" bills, and the Offensive AND Defensive ROTY's playing on their starter salary. You have no short, long, or mid-term answer at QB. Yes, pay the man some ridiculous money for the next 3 years. Now is the time to shoot that shot.

Why Rodgers would want it makes a lot of sense, too. He's gotta feel like his career is eclipsed pretty well, at this point, by his contemporaries Brady and Manning, and now with both gone, Mahomes has stolen the day. What would Rodgers do to elevate his stature in a way that would go down in history? Winning in NY would definitely be that.

I can see how both teams need eachother, and, joking aside, these are not the "same old Jets". 

[TheCountOfNYC]

All of this Jets slander going on so let me explain. The Jets have an elite defense and a deep skill position depth chart on offense. Go back and watch every single Jets loss last season, and it's clear that they were all very winnable games if they had a good QB. If I'm Aaron Rodgers, I look at this team, especially with my former OC now the OC for the Jets, and I see a place where I can win, especially with Buffalo starting to look vulnerable.

[KevShmev]

Cleveland sure changed the landscape with that Watson guaranteed deal, didn't they.  That the Browns are dumb shouldn't mean everyone else has to be (looking at you, Baltimore).  I'm a HUGE Lamar Jackson fan - I think he's a top three QB in the league if he's healthy - and even I think giving him what he's asking is dumb (for LJ, it's all about the guaranteed money).

Wait a minute, I thought you were a "a QB needs to do in the playoffs" guy.  Jackson hasn't been good in the playoffs at all.  I cannot think of any way I'd call him a top 3 QB in the NFL right now.  Yes, he was amazing in the 2019 regular season, and he hasn't been close that great since. And he cannot stay healthy.  I think the Ravens have played this just right.

No, you're 100% right.  He hasn't.  I just think of all the other guys that haven't he probably has - and it's maybe HAD - the best potential of the lot, is all. He hasn't had half the weapons that some of the other QBs in the league have had, and he's playing for a coach that is not known for being an offensive Gandalf.   But it's a big "IF", since he HASN'T been healthy, and I'm with Barto, in that he really showed his (lack of) character in how he handled the end of this past season. 

Either way, he's not a guy I'm giving guaranteed money to.  I'm not sure I can name a QB I would give big-time guaranteed money to (and no, even though that includes Mahomes, that's not a dig at him. I just think that's stupid to pay players for what they don't do).

What's wild is how many players are defending him for not playing in the playoff game.  I think most assume now that he could have played, but chose not to because of the contract situation.  It feels like the NBA mentality has trickled over to the NFL where too many players now just want to get paid and don't give a damn about the team or winning.

[KevShmev]

What I don't get are some Jets fans who apparently want no part of Rodgers.  I am like, are you freaking kidding me?

A year ago, some Broncos fans were saying they didn't want Russell Wilson.  Some found that mindset crazy.  I can't speak for Jets fans, but I sure as heck wouldn't want a 39 year old head case with a BAD attitude on my team - especially not given his contract situation.

How is Rodgers a head case?  To me, he is an arrogant dick, but that can be said for a lot of QBs; he just doesn't pretend to be someone he's not.  His age is a concern, but considering how good he is when he is on his game, he is worth the risk.

[cramx3]

Not crazy about the Jones deal. I do really hope it works out and he can improve upon last season but one year of improvement does not equate to all that money. I guess a lot kf it is determined by the market with the other QB deals that happened. If anything, Jones should be giving a cut tk Daboll as I'd guess he had just as much if not more to do with Jones improvement than Jones himself. Looks like the Giants will probably franchise Barkley then.

[hefdaddy42]

It feels like the NBA mentality has trickled over to the NFL where too many players now just want to get paid and don't give a damn about the team or winning.

Why should any player give a damn about the team or winning if they AREN'T getting paid?

[El Barto]

It feels like the NBA mentality has trickled over to the NFL where too many players now just want to get paid and don't give a damn about the team or winning.

Why should any player give a damn about the team or winning if they AREN'T getting paid?

None of them AREN'T getting paid. They're all getting paid heaps of money.

[hefdaddy42]

It feels like the NBA mentality has trickled over to the NFL where too many players now just want to get paid and don't give a damn about the team or winning.

Why should any player give a damn about the team or winning if they AREN'T getting paid?

None of them AREN'T getting paid. They're all getting paid heaps of money.

You know what I mean.

It's a two-way street.  I don't understand fans who think that players should be all "rah-rah" about their NFL team, especially when the team will show absolutely no loyalty to that player if they have a bad year. 

There's nothing wrong with a player wanting to get paid what they think they are worth, or putting that need above the "needs" of the team.

[KevShmev]

Okay, but I didn't suggest that Jackson should be all rah-rah about the Ravens.  I get him wanting to get paid, even if I think he is asking for too much or going about it the wrong way with having his mom as his agent.

If Jackson is worth what he thinks he is, then someone will make him that offer, and then it will be up to the Ravens to decide if they want to match it or not.

[hefdaddy42]

Okay, but I didn't suggest that Jackson should be all rah-rah about the Ravens.  I get him wanting to get paid, even if I think he is asking for too much or going about it the wrong way with having his mom as his agent.

If Jackson is worth what he thinks he is, then someone will make him that offer, and then it will be up to the Ravens to decide if they want to match it or not.

Of course, to all of that.  Personally, I feel that he's fool not to use an actual agent.  But we'll see what happens.

I do find it a little shady that multiple teams let it be known that they want no part of him, especially teams with glaring QB needs.

[Stadler]

It feels like the NBA mentality has trickled over to the NFL where too many players now just want to get paid and don't give a damn about the team or winning.

Why should any player give a damn about the team or winning if they AREN'T getting paid?

None of them AREN'T getting paid. They're all getting paid heaps of money.

You know what I mean.

It's a two-way street.  I don't understand fans who think that players should be all "rah-rah" about their NFL team, especially when the team will show absolutely no loyalty to that player if they have a bad year. 

There's nothing wrong with a player wanting to get paid what they think they are worth, or putting that need above the "needs" of the team.

Yeah, I don't buy into this "these are two equal sides" assumption.   The fact is, there is always a "bigger bear".  The Ravens will survive, and perhaps even thrive, without Lamar.  Lamar has a shelf life, and honestly, if I'm a team like the Patriots, or the Raiders, or Green Bay, that is looking to establish a culture and a "life" after a marquee QB leaving, I'm not going anywhere NEAR Lamar.  I've already said I think he's upper tier in terms of skills, but that's not an attitude I want on my team. 

Okay, but I didn't suggest that Jackson should be all rah-rah about the Ravens.  I get him wanting to get paid, even if I think he is asking for too much or going about it the wrong way with having his mom as his agent.

If Jackson is worth what he thinks he is, then someone will make him that offer, and then it will be up to the Ravens to decide if they want to match it or not.

Of course, to all of that.  Personally, I feel that he's fool not to use an actual agent.  But we'll see what happens.

I do find it a little shady that multiple teams let it be known that they want no part of him, especially teams with glaring QB needs.

See above; why is that shady?  If I'm GM, I can elect to show interest for any reason or no reason at all.   We've seen what a powerful presence in the locker room can mean to a team (Brady, Mahomes, Burrow) but we've also seen what a toxic presence (Zach Wilson) can do. As I noted, teams and players are not two sides of the same (equal) coin.  Players are, at their fundamental base, replaceable.  The teams are not.  Despite being the greatest offensive player to ever play the game, the Patriots have fielded three teams since Brady's moving on.   The Giants have played ten's of seasons, and won what two Super Bowls, since the greatest defensive player to ever play the game retired from their squad. 

I cannot name one player still in the league that is the lone man standing from a defunct organization. 

[KevShmev]

I do find it a little shady that multiple teams let it be known that they want no part of him, especially teams with glaring QB needs.

How or why is it shady?

[hefdaddy42]

I do find it a little shady that multiple teams let it be known that they want no part of him, especially teams with glaring QB needs.

How or why is it shady?

He's an immensely talented player, by all accounts one of the top at his position, in the prime of his career, having already won an MVP, and teams with glaring needs at his position just aren't interested?  Really?

I've already said I think he's upper tier in terms of skills, but that's not an attitude I want on my team.

What attitude?

[KevShmev]

I do find it a little shady that multiple teams let it be known that they want no part of him, especially teams with glaring QB needs.

How or why is it shady?

He's an immensely talented player, by all accounts one of the top at his position, in the prime of his career, having already won an MVP, and teams with glaring needs at his position just aren't interested?  Really?

I suspect there are a few things going on here.

1) The owners are collectively pissed at the Browns for giving Watson all that guaranteed money, so this is pushback on another QB wanting big time crazy guaranteed money.

2) Posturing.  I wouldn't be surprised if multiple teams are interested, for the right price, but are publicly saying they are not.

3) Some teams may honestly think he has already peaked and will never be again what he was in 2019.  He has shown little to indicate he will ever be that player again.

[Stadler]

And more fundamentally, who would give guaranteed money to a guy who has explicitly shown he is going to sit and play PlayStation when and if HE arbitrarily feels his circumstances - whatever they may be - are not optimal?

[El Barto]

And more fundamentally, who would give guaranteed money to a guy who has explicitly shown he is going to sit and play PlayStation when and if HE arbitrarily feels his circumstances - whatever they may be - are not optimal?

This. I wouldn't go near him. I want a player who wants to be there and wants to win. It looks an awful lot like his sitting out the playoffs was a business decision, and I'd want no part of that.

[bosk1]

And more fundamentally, who would give guaranteed money to a guy who has explicitly shown he is going to sit and play PlayStation when and if HE arbitrarily feels his circumstances - whatever they may be - are not optimal?

This. I wouldn't go near him. I want a player who wants to be there and wants to win. It looks an awful lot like his sitting out the playoffs was a business decision, and I'd want no part of that.

Agreed with those two posts.  And in addition to that (which is alone a very good reason for teams to be hesitant), the fact that his skill set, while immense, is very specialized.  Rather than him being able to fit into a lot of offensive systems, he needs an organization that can tailer the offensive system to fit him.  Harbaugh was very open about being willing to do that and basically revamping the entire offensive system to rebuild it around Jackson when they decided to draft him.  That's not going to be an acceptable option for a lot of team, whether they have needs at QB or not. 

[El Barto]

And more fundamentally, who would give guaranteed money to a guy who has explicitly shown he is going to sit and play PlayStation when and if HE arbitrarily feels his circumstances - whatever they may be - are not optimal?

This. I wouldn't go near him. I want a player who wants to be there and wants to win. It looks an awful lot like his sitting out the playoffs was a business decision, and I'd want no part of that.

Agreed with those two posts.  And in addition to that (which is alone a very good reason for teams to be hesitant), the fact that his skill set, while immense, is very specialized.  Rather than him being able to fit into a lot of offensive systems, he needs an organization that can tailer the offensive system to fit him.  Harbaugh was very open about being willing to do that and basically revamping the entire offensive system to rebuild it around Jackson when they decided to draft him.  That's not going to be an acceptable option for a lot of team, whether they have needs at QB or not. 

Yeah, real good point. He's not a fit for most pro offenses.

I'll also point out that we've seen this blow up for teams in the past. Look back at the 03 Falcons. As great a coach as Dan Reeves was he couldn't salvage the situation when Dog Killer broke his leg in pre-season. You're creating an offense built around one guy, and that one guy, by virtue of his immense talent is unreplaceable if the need arises. Baltimore learned this recently. Good teams can still compete without their best player. A team build entirely around one guy's talents cannot, and when that one guy might be a little flaky then it's all the worse.