DTF Donations Contest: Win prizes and donate to keep the lights on here

[MinistroRaven]

Same for me. But if you state 'win prizes', you either need to make those prizes available or apologise and say there's been a change of plan, for whatever reason. Simple as that. Then people can decide whether to donate or not in future. For me, it's the principle of it, nothing more, nothing less.

[cramx3]

A lot of this makes me wonder if the band is to blame here.  Maybe the band never supplied the goods and bosk is taking one for the team. I could be wrong of course, just stating a thought. I dont think I need to state my opinion again and again here though.

[MinistroRaven]

A lot of this makes me wonder if the band is to blame here.  Maybe the band never supplied the goods and bosk is taking one for the team. I could be wrong of course, just stating a thought. I dont think I need to state my opinion again and again here though.

The only one who can give an answer is bosk1, let's wait for him to chime in.

[Stadler]

Same for me. But if you state 'win prizes', you either need to make those prizes available or apologise and say there's been a change of plan, for whatever reason. Simple as that. Then people can decide whether to donate or not in future. For me, it's the principle of it, nothing more, nothing less.

That's where we - respectfully, always - disagree.  I don't feel I'm owed anything, be it a prize or an apology or an explanation.   You can still decide - you can ALWAYS decide - regardless.  My principles do not apply to anyone else (though I don't mean to imply with that that anyone has not lived up to my principles).

[MinistroRaven]

I still lean towards the side favoring accountability, primarily because clear promises were made (Anyone who donates $15 or more by...), and SOME people made donations based on those promises.

While the act of giving should ideally be motivated by a desire to support rather than receive, once a promise of compensation (in this case, prizes) is made, TO ME it becomes a matter of integrity to fulfill that promise or, at the very least, provide a clear and sincere explanation or apology for any failure to do so. Especially since it was reiterated 6 months ago that the situation would be sorted out.

If there are folks here who weren't fussed about the prizes and just wanted to donate to keep things running, that's awesome! Hats off to you! I'm genuinely pleased for you. But for those of us seeking clarity, let us get the answers from the only person who can give them: bosk1.

[TAC]

For me, I know my next donation will be unchanged based on anything that happened since the last donation.

Yup.

[cramx3]

For me, I know my next donation will be unchanged based on anything that happened since the last donation.

Yup.

Same, but I still understand the point others are making.  Also on that note:

Just commenting to say that I’d love to donate a few bucks, but as some have mentioned, the link is broken still. Hopefully that gets fixed soon. ✌🏼

That should probably get fixed.

[wolfking]

So you suggest sweeping it under the rug is a better solution?

I just don't think in the scheme of life it's really worth putting any effort into.  The effort should be going into making sure DTF can always remain active and open.

I guess to me it's a matter of "what's important".  I've learned a long time ago that "man plans, God laughs" and this idea of perfect closure on every issue is a recipe for anxiety and stress and aggravation.   

FOR ME, the only part of the thread title that mattered to me was "donate to keep the lights on".  My prize is the friendships that I've made here (and which I hope and pray will last long after this place closes down, if it ever closes down).   If anything else came of it, well, bonus, but for those that it wasn't a "bonus" you have more data with which to decide if you donate again.  For me, I know my next donation will be unchanged based on anything that happened since the last donation.

Perfectly said.  Sums me up 100% also.

[wolfking]

Same for me. But if you state 'win prizes', you either need to make those prizes available or apologise and say there's been a change of plan, for whatever reason. Simple as that. Then people can decide whether to donate or not in future. For me, it's the principle of it, nothing more, nothing less.

That's where we - respectfully, always - disagree.  I don't feel I'm owed anything, be it a prize or an apology or an explanation.   You can still decide - you can ALWAYS decide - regardless.  My principles do not apply to anyone else (though I don't mean to imply with that that anyone has not lived up to my principles).

This.  We all chose to donate money regardless of anything else.  Things happen, we aren't owed anything.

[wolfking]

I still lean towards the side favoring accountability, primarily because clear promises were made (Anyone who donates $15 or more by...), and SOME people made donations based on those promises.

While the act of giving should ideally be motivated by a desire to support rather than receive, once a promise of compensation (in this case, prizes) is made, TO ME it becomes a matter of integrity to fulfill that promise or, at the very least, provide a clear and sincere explanation or apology for any failure to do so. Especially since it was reiterated 6 months ago that the situation would be sorted out.

If there are folks here who weren't fussed about the prizes and just wanted to donate to keep things running, that's awesome! Hats off to you! I'm genuinely pleased for you. But for those of us seeking clarity, let us get the answers from the only person who can give them: bosk1.

When you DONATE money, you can't expect 'prizes' to be 'compensation'.  I think you have the meaning of that word wrong.

[wolfking]

Anyone who donates $15 or more by January 1, 2023, will be eligible for the prize drawing. 

EDIT:  Paypal "donate" button on the forum is not working, but you can go to Paypal and donate to dreamtheaterforums@yahoo.com

From the OP.  Note the word 'eligible' plus addressing the donate button issue.

[Zantera]

But if it's framed like a contest with prizes then how is it any different from a lottery for example? You buy a lottery ticket and you're in the running for some reward. I doubt anyone would apply the same chill attitude in that scenario if the lottery just didn't deliver on the pay out part of the deal and just bagged the money people spent on the lottery tickets. Sure some people who donated might have done it anyways regardless if there was a contest or not, but I'm sure some did because of the way this thread was framed.

Either way I've lived long enough that I know people break promises all the time and it is what it is. But it's also surprising when people defend such behaviour. I'm not suggesting anyone should be crucified for this but a simple "Yeah it sucks this didn't turn out like it was intended to" would suffice.

[TAC]

I still lean towards the side favoring accountability, primarily because clear promises were made (Anyone who donates $15 or more by...), and SOME people made donations based on those promises.

Your $15 has gotten your website more than enough traffic hits don't you think by being here? You package every news story to the same link..your site. How come you don't make that clear when you post your news items?

Please. Save your acountability argument for another bunch of suckers. DTF isn't a business, it's a fan site operated by....a fan, a friend so to speak. If you feel taken advantage of, then whatever. You're getting plenty in return, pal.


Prizes have always been offered as a token of appreciation.  If you donated because you thought you might yippee win a prize... well, I don't know what to tell you. Keep your damn money and you know where to find the door.

Some of you are acting like a goddamn bunch of babies.

[MinistroRaven]

I still lean towards the side favoring accountability, primarily because clear promises were made (Anyone who donates $15 or more by...), and SOME people made donations based on those promises.

While the act of giving should ideally be motivated by a desire to support rather than receive, once a promise of compensation (in this case, prizes) is made, TO ME it becomes a matter of integrity to fulfill that promise or, at the very least, provide a clear and sincere explanation or apology for any failure to do so. Especially since it was reiterated 6 months ago that the situation would be sorted out.

If there are folks here who weren't fussed about the prizes and just wanted to donate to keep things running, that's awesome! Hats off to you! I'm genuinely pleased for you. But for those of us seeking clarity, let us get the answers from the only person who can give them: bosk1.

When you DONATE money, you can't expect 'prizes' to be 'compensation'.  I think you have the meaning of that word wrong.

The issue with your reasoning is that besides asking for a DONATION of $15 or more it was PROMISED that donors would be eligible for prizes, thus 'prizes' as compensation is a valid term.

Anyone donating $15 or more will be eligible for a drawing at the end of the contest.  Here are some of the prizes we have:
-Dream Theater CDs (will post specific titles later)
-Dream Theater vinyl (Images and Words, Awake, or Live at the Marquee)
-Dream Theater past tour laminates
-Item from Dream Theater's online store
-Dream Theater DVD/Blu Ray (will post specific titles later)
-Dream Theater vintage shirts
-Systematic Chaos tour book, in brand new condition

And despite that, and that the management of the band was also involved in some capacity ("Dream Theater management has also authorized me to allow a winner or two to choose from some items in DT's official online store.") and that after 1 year and 8 months have passed the drawing has not taken place, we the DONORS that were expecting the drawing to happen as promised in the OP are still waiting for answers.

Again, and with all due respect, as some of you don't care for the prizes THAT'S FINE! I don't understand why you care so much for those who DO CARE for the drawing of the prizes, or for at least to get an answer why the drawing will not take place even after it was said 6 months ago that it will be addressed.

[nobloodyname]

Either way I've lived long enough that I know people break promises all the time and it is what it is. But it's also surprising when people defend such behaviour. I'm not suggesting anyone should be crucified for this but a simple "Yeah it sucks this didn't turn out like it was intended to" would suffice.

Spot on.

[MinistroRaven]

I still lean towards the side favoring accountability, primarily because clear promises were made (Anyone who donates $15 or more by...), and SOME people made donations based on those promises.

Your $15 has gotten your website more than enough traffic hits don't you think by being here? You package every news story to the same link..your site. How come you don't make that clear when you post your news items?

Please. Save your acountability argument for another bunch of suckers. DTF isn't a business, it's a fan site operated by....a fan, a friend so to speak. If you feel taken advantage of, then whatever. You're getting plenty in return, pal.


Prizes have always been offered as a token of appreciation.  If you donated because you thought you might yippee win a prize... well, I don't know what to tell you. Keep your damn money and you know where to find the door.

Some of you are acting like a goddamn bunch of babies.

The only one acting like a baby here is you dude.

I post links here because I want and because I can, and if you don't like it f*ck it.

Show me where in the rules it says I should not and I'll stop. Plus you are not forced to click anything that I post, so take your words and put them where the sun doesn't hit.

[TAC]

I still lean towards the side favoring accountability, primarily because clear promises were made (Anyone who donates $15 or more by...), and SOME people made donations based on those promises.

Your $15 has gotten your website more than enough traffic hits don't you think by being here? You package every news story to the same link..your site. How come you don't make that clear when you post your news items?

Please. Save your acountability argument for another bunch of suckers. DTF isn't a business, it's a fan site operated by....a fan, a friend so to speak. If you feel taken advantage of, then whatever. You're getting plenty in return, pal.


Prizes have always been offered as a token of appreciation.  If you donated because you thought you might yippee win a prize... well, I don't know what to tell you. Keep your damn money and you know where to find the door.

Some of you are acting like a goddamn bunch of babies.

The only one acting like a baby here is you dude.

I post links here because I want and because I can, and if you don't like it f*ck it.

Show me where in the rules it says I should not and I'll stop. Plus you are not forced to click anything that I post, so take your words and put them where the sun doesn't hit.

You've gotten plenty of benefit, and frankly should be the last guy to whine in this thread. I don't click your links. I would, but you've come off so poorly in this thread. I think it's disingenuous to direct repackaged news items to your personal website. No, it's not against the rules, but it's deceptive. And I'd leave it alone except for your attitude here.

[MinistroRaven]

I still lean towards the side favoring accountability, primarily because clear promises were made (Anyone who donates $15 or more by...), and SOME people made donations based on those promises.

Your $15 has gotten your website more than enough traffic hits don't you think by being here? You package every news story to the same link..your site. How come you don't make that clear when you post your news items?

Please. Save your acountability argument for another bunch of suckers. DTF isn't a business, it's a fan site operated by....a fan, a friend so to speak. If you feel taken advantage of, then whatever. You're getting plenty in return, pal.


Prizes have always been offered as a token of appreciation.  If you donated because you thought you might yippee win a prize... well, I don't know what to tell you. Keep your damn money and you know where to find the door.

Some of you are acting like a goddamn bunch of babies.

The only one acting like a baby here is you dude.

I post links here because I want and because I can, and if you don't like it f*ck it.

Show me where in the rules it says I should not and I'll stop. Plus you are not forced to click anything that I post, so take your words and put them where the sun doesn't hit.

You've gotten plenty of benefit, and frankly should be the last guy to whine in this thread. I don't click your links. I would, but you've come off so poorly in this thread. I think it's disingenuous to direct repackaged news items to your personal website. No, it's not against the rules, but it's deceptive. And I'd leave it alone except for your attitude here.

I didn't want to reply anything else other than the image above, but I figured I shouldn't remain silent.

Plenty of benefit? based on what? The links I post? I don't even serve ads on my site dude. So, show me where's the benefit.

Plus where does it say that if someone is receiving a certain benefit from the forum is not allowed to ask questions to the owner of the forum? Are you the owner of this forum? Last time I checked you were not, so, from here an out you can obey Arnold above and seriously talk to the hand, I coudln't care less what YOU think of me of the things I do.

[wolfking]

I still lean towards the side favoring accountability, primarily because clear promises were made (Anyone who donates $15 or more by...), and SOME people made donations based on those promises.

Your $15 has gotten your website more than enough traffic hits don't you think by being here? You package every news story to the same link..your site. How come you don't make that clear when you post your news items?

Please. Save your acountability argument for another bunch of suckers. DTF isn't a business, it's a fan site operated by....a fan, a friend so to speak. If you feel taken advantage of, then whatever. You're getting plenty in return, pal.


Prizes have always been offered as a token of appreciation.  If you donated because you thought you might yippee win a prize... well, I don't know what to tell you. Keep your damn money and you know where to find the door.

Some of you are acting like a goddamn bunch of babies.

The only one acting like a baby here is you dude.

I post links here because I want and because I can, and if you don't like it f*ck it.

Show me where in the rules it says I should not and I'll stop. Plus you are not forced to click anything that I post, so take your words and put them where the sun doesn't hit.

Mate, come off it, you're choosing to miss the point. You don't post here for the people and the friendships, you post for your own website and you're own business and benefit, we're not stupid.  You're only here to promote your site, Tim is dead on.

[wolfking]

The other side of this is annoying me too.  Bosk came out and put everything out there to us telling us he was going through a rough patch.  For a guy of his status to come out, admit he wasn't 100% and apologise profusely was big, my respect for him grew even more after a couple of rough years myself.  So I can relate.

A few of us said close the thread and move on.  He obviously wanted to try with this but my other concern was DTF being active and bosk being okay.  Yet, we are still carrying on about the insignificant side of this in terms of conditions and specifics behind fucking prizes.  Not really helpful to him is it?

If bosk decides hes had enough and says fuck it and DTF closes then we're all fucked and then you'll have no prizes and no fucking forum.  Take your pick.

[MinistroRaven]

I still lean towards the side favoring accountability, primarily because clear promises were made (Anyone who donates $15 or more by...), and SOME people made donations based on those promises.

Your $15 has gotten your website more than enough traffic hits don't you think by being here? You package every news story to the same link..your site. How come you don't make that clear when you post your news items?

Please. Save your acountability argument for another bunch of suckers. DTF isn't a business, it's a fan site operated by....a fan, a friend so to speak. If you feel taken advantage of, then whatever. You're getting plenty in return, pal.


Prizes have always been offered as a token of appreciation.  If you donated because you thought you might yippee win a prize... well, I don't know what to tell you. Keep your damn money and you know where to find the door.

Some of you are acting like a goddamn bunch of babies.

The only one acting like a baby here is you dude.

I post links here because I want and because I can, and if you don't like it f*ck it.

Show me where in the rules it says I should not and I'll stop. Plus you are not forced to click anything that I post, so take your words and put them where the sun doesn't hit.

Mate, come off it, you're choosing to miss the point. You don't post here for the people and the friendships, you post for your own website and you're own business and benefit, we're not stupid.  You're only here to promote your site, Tim is dead on.

You can believe whatever you want. I don't care, if I have friends (I have some) or not, that's not up to you.

If you need to talk to the hand refer to the image above

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i don't want my post to come off as if i'm taking sides, because i don't take sides, because nobody is on my side (gotta throw in that Treebeard quote) but i would like to just offer that I don't think MinistroRaven is "Only posting for his own business and benefit". He shares posts to his personal website sometimes, but there's no link in his signature, he encourages DTF posters to submit music reviews on a regular basis (which is encouraging community growth around something we all love - and it encourages creative writing, we all know how much I love creative writing), and he is often posting/starting threads that are entirely unrelated to his website or even to music (he is the starter of the NBA thread, the Happy Birthday Bosk Thread, the Merry Christmas DTF thread, and countless others)

i haven't been here very long but from what i've seen there isn't any evidence of MinistroRaven's supposed "selfish" intent and i for one appreciate his input. i appreciate all y'alls input, even when you are throwing shade at me

[Metro]

Not getting back into the argument in this thread, don’t care about either side of it anymore, but I do appreciate what Ministro does. As someone who doesn’t use social media and is very much out of the loop on many things in terms of music news, his updates on this site keep me in the loop.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

Not getting back into the argument in this thread, don’t care about either side of it anymore, but I do appreciate what Ministro does. As someone who doesn’t use social media and is very much out of the loop on many things in terms of music news, his updates on this site keep me in the loop.

as a fellow anti-social media person i agree, especially when the music news is related to niche genres like we're into here

[TAC]

i don't want my post to come off as if i'm taking sides, because i don't take sides, because nobody is on my side (gotta throw in that Treebeard quote) but i would like to just offer that I don't think MinistroRaven is "Only posting for his own business and benefit". He shares posts to his personal website sometimes, but there's no link in his signature, he encourages DTF posters to submit music reviews on a regular basis (which is encouraging community growth around something we all love - and it encourages creative writing, we all know how much I love creative writing), and he is often posting/starting threads that are entirely unrelated to his website or even to music (he is the starter of the NBA thread, the Happy Birthday Bosk Thread, the Merry Christmas DTF thread, and countless others)

i haven't been here very long but from what i've seen there isn't any evidence of MinistroRaven's supposed "selfish" intent and i for one appreciate his input. i appreciate all y'alls input, even when you are throwing shade at me

Generally speaking, I don't really have a problem with Ministro Raven. He's been a member here for a while and provides good content. Repackaging news items directing them to one's own website is fucking cheesy as hell, but I could really give a shit. I only call it out because he's taking shots in this thread like something is owed to him. His website gets plenty of traffic with it's deceptive packaging that his $15 has more than achieved its ROI.

Not getting back into the argument in this thread, don’t care about either side of it anymore, but I do appreciate what Ministro does. As someone who doesn’t use social media and is very much out of the loop on many things in terms of music news, his updates on this site keep me in the loop.

That's great. I don't have social media either besides DTF.

Like I said, he provides good content.

[MinistroRaven]

New “rule” to ask questions on this thread, make sure you don’t own a website and post links to said website in the forum. 

[Skeever]

Here's a novel idea - how about those of you who DON'T CARE about the contest anymore follow your own advice and stop posting in this thread?
I know certain people here can't help but police everything said that they disagree with. The funny thing is, this thread was already halfway down the page before wolfking bumped it to criticize something he didn't like. With friends like that...!

How about this...

Consider that some people who submitted to the contest do actually care about the results. Also, consider that it is OK to care about the results, and actually when Bosk1 provided his update last year, he recommitted to eventually delivering them. We all understand that Bosk1 is a grownup, he can occasionally be prompted by his users for updates, and those who don't care anymore can just... not care!

As for me - I own almost every single DT item I'd want to own, and could easily purchase anything I don't currently have. "Winning" something would be nice, but I don't need it. Getting green stars would be nice, but I don't need that either. Learning the contest has come to a close, how long the site is funded for in the future, how much we raised, etc., all that's a lot more interesting to me, personally. Sure, yes, I can tell that the "lights" are still "on" because we're still here 15 months since the contest started. But did we pay the utility bill, or did we just run an electric cable out our back window to our neighbor's outlet? LOL

[TempusVox]

In light of the sensitivity around this issue, I won't lock this thread. However, if anyone chooses to continue with the rhetoric and personal attacks, I will start banning people.

You've all been warned.

You may disagree, but do it in a civilized and respectful manner. Whatever your position on this subject is- you will follow the forum rules.

[TAC]

New “rule” to ask questions on this thread, make sure you don’t own a website and post links to said website in the forum. 

That's not the point.

Here's a novel idea - how about those of you who DON'T CARE about the contest anymore follow your own advice and stop posting in this thread?

That's good advice and I will take you up on it. The rest of you guys can keep on whining.

[NoFred]

Fun reading here during the commute home lol…

For the next set of donations I’d love to see a target amount. Call it drive for 5k (or whatever the goal is) so then when we hit the number, everyone can say yay as a community and move on. I’d hate for this place to go offline cause we unwittingly didn’t do enough.

[bosk1]

OK, I know I posted a few weeks back and said I would have the results soon, but had some things interrupt the process.  Sorry, I know I said it would be "soon," but it's more tedious and time consuming than you might think.  I'm out this weekend, but expect to have it done about a week or so after that, give or take.  Again, sorry for the delay.

That said, some of the discussion here is clearly off the rails, and some of the other mods would have locked the thread if I hadn't previously said I would leave it open for comment.  If anyone has any specific questions, you can PM me.  As I've said before, I own the fact that there was an extreme delay the first time around, and there are circumstances in my private life that I can't get into publicly that contributed to that.  But some of the more recent posts are truly how people feel, I'll definitely think twice about asking whether people want to keep the site going the next time the account starts to run low.

A lot of this makes me wonder if the band is to blame here.  Maybe the band never supplied the goods and bosk is taking one for the team. I could be wrong of course, just stating a thought. I dont think I need to state my opinion again and again here though.

Dude, what the heck?  Why would you even think/say that?  That has nothing to do with any of this.  But thanks to rumors like this, I now have members PMing me asking if they can donate stuff to give as prizes.  Seriously, think before you post this kind of stuff.  Now there are rumors out there that are completely unfounded thanks to posts like this.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

Fun reading here during the commute home lol…

For the next set of donations I’d love to see a target amount. Call it drive for 5k (or whatever the goal is) so then when we hit the number, everyone can say yay as a community and move on. I’d hate for this place to go offline cause we unwittingly didn’t do enough.

let's make it happen!!!

[Madman Shepherd]

I hate to use a "both sides" argument but as I've said before, I think one side is a little too caught up in this giveaway in which they weren't even guaranteed anything, just the possibility of getting something, and the other side seems obsess over the idea that those people are somehow doing something wrong and we need to be protected from ourselves by having the thread locked or at least condemning those that are caught up in the lack of prizes. Wow, that was a long sentence.

As someone that donated thinking I have probably a 50/50 chance of getting something, eh...bummer. I literally don't think of it until the thread pops up. But to see the visceral reaction to anybody wanting an explanation is...a bit much.

Edit:just saw bosk respond. Good deal, man. Best of luck with whatever personal stuff you got going on.

[TAC]

I'll definitely think twice about asking whether people want to keep the site going the next time the account starts to run low.

I sure wouldn't have an issue with an annual or as needed donation drive. I don't think anyone, on either side of this issue would disagree.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i agree with madam shepherd, had i joined when the contest was still open i would have donated; but i can wait until next time, or at least until the button is fixed. maybe the prize next time will be a meet n greet package with the reunited lineup at a show of your choosing on the next tour