POLL: Rainbow - Rising vs. Rush - 2112?

[Setlist Scotty]

Your honor, if it may please the court, you can say a lot of things about Blackmore, but "one trick pony" is not one of them.  From his sessions in the 60's in England (he was a peer of Jimmy Page) to the proto prog of early Deep Purple to the proto-metal of mid-period Deep Purple to the blues funk of Mark IV Deep Purple through the various incarnations of Rainbow, to the resurgence of "new" Purple, to the multi-faceted genres of his Renaissance gig with Candace...

Sorry, but your proof has all failed because Blackmore wasn't a part of Deep Purple Mark IV! 

[kirksnosehair]

I don't think Alex was the weak link at all and in fact for years I thought he was the most underrated guitarist in rock. His chord phrasings and his use of tone was IMO ground-breaking. I could give examples of many songs where Alex's playing shines easily as much as NP and GL but suffice to say that there would be no Rush without Alex (and yes I include all three players in that statement).

Rush had no weak link.  Now, I think it does go without saying that Alex was not as highly regarded by the general public, for lack of a better term, on his instrument as the other two (Neil is often call the greatest rock drummer ever or 2nd or 3rd best at worst, and Geddy is usually in the top tier of all-time bassists, while Alex is never in the top tier of guitarists with Hendrix, Page, EVH, Gilmour, Clapton, etc.), but being the least best of those three does not make you a weak link, as being weak implies that your deficiencies held the band back in some way, and that was never the case with Rush.

I'm not comparing him to anyone other than the two musicians he plays with.  To me he was the weakest link in Rush, not among all guitarists.  I just think he's not a "virtuoso" on his instrument to the same degree that Geddy Lee is on the bass and Neil Peart was on the drums.  That's not to say Alex is a bad or shitty guitarist at all.  In fact, I think he's a great guitarist, I just think Geddy and Neil are even greater.

[Evermind]

I'm with Stads here. You may not like Rainbow, but saying Blackmore is a one-trick-pony is just an insult to the guy. He's one of the most influential rock guitarists out there.

[TAC]

2112 for me.  Rising, like all the Dio Rainbow albums, was very patchy for me.  I love Tarot Woman and Stargazer.  Everything else ranges from ok to pretty bad.  They probably had one albums worth of classic material spread across three very patchy albums.

And 2112 is not patchy?

No I don't think so.

[Zoom E]

Rising gets my vote, just for Stargazer alone. So epic.

[twosuitsluke]

Digging out my vinyl copy of Rising for this. I've never actually listened to 2112, so I guess I'll start there 

Edit: I voted for Rainbow - Rising in the end. As others have already said, I think it's just a more consistent record. Yes, the title track to 2112 is epic but Rising is just a better album for me.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Very interesting comparison.  That being said they are very different works of art.  If I have to compare the two works side by side.... 2112 (meaning the title track) wins.  As far as individual tracks, Stargazer and A Light in The Black are pretty epic and carry a lot of weight.

[hunnus2000]

I don't think Alex was the weak link at all and in fact for years I thought he was the most underrated guitarist in rock. His chord phrasings and his use of tone was IMO ground-breaking. I could give examples of many songs where Alex's playing shines easily as much as NP and GL but suffice to say that there would be no Rush without Alex (and yes I include all three players in that statement).

Rush had no weak link.  Now, I think it does go without saying that Alex was not as highly regarded by the general public, for lack of a better term, on his instrument as the other two (Neil is often call the greatest rock drummer ever or 2nd or 3rd best at worst, and Geddy is usually in the top tier of all-time bassists, while Alex is never in the top tier of guitarists with Hendrix, Page, EVH, Gilmour, Clapton, etc.), but being the least best of those three does not make you a weak link, as being weak implies that your deficiencies held the band back in some way, and that was never the case with Rush.

I completely agree! Alex never really got the respect he deserved until around GUP when he was named Rock Guitarist of the Year by GP magazine. He was always tinkering with his technique and sound and starting with Signals his guitar was taking a backseat to the keyboards up until Counterparts. He complained about it but he was a good foot soldier during that period and adjusted. When Rush made there return after the tragedies that Neil went through, the entire band  experienced a renaissance where young kids discovered them and a whole new demographic was following them - women. Whenever we would follow them on tour, half of the meetups were female and not because of their boyfriends or hubbies but because they truly enjoyed the band.

But you know who hasn't had that kind of renaissance, Clapton, EVH or even Ritchie Blackmore? Those guitarists wrote iconic songs but they were never as versatile as Alex. Click below to find out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luazBVOYa9c

PS - My opinions come not from the fan in me but just how things have turned over a span of time.

 

[KevShmev]

I completely agree! Alex never really got the respect he deserved until around GUP when he was named Rock Guitarist of the Year by GP magazine. He was always tinkering with his technique and sound and starting with Signals his guitar was taking a backseat to the keyboards up until Counterparts. He complained about it but he was a good foot soldier during that period and adjusted. When Rush made there return after the tragedies that Neil went through, the entire band  experienced a renaissance where young kids discovered them and a whole new demographic was following them - women. Whenever we would follow them on tour, half of the meetups were female and not because of their boyfriends or hubbies but because they truly enjoyed the band.

But you know who hasn't had that kind of renaissance, Clapton, EVH or even Ritchie Blackmore? Those guitarists wrote iconic songs but they were never as versatile as Alex. Click below to find out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luazBVOYa9c

PS - My opinions come not from the fan in me but just how things have turned over a span of time.

I agree with you, but history will likely always see Alex taking a back seat to his fellow bandmates when it comes to recognition.  It's just the way it is.  And I doubt he cares all that much.  Remember that clip from the one documentary where a fan wanted Geddy's autograph and had no idea who the guy (Alex) was sitting next to him?  Alex found it quite funny.  That's just who he is. 

[hunnus2000]

I completely agree! Alex never really got the respect he deserved until around GUP when he was named Rock Guitarist of the Year by GP magazine. He was always tinkering with his technique and sound and starting with Signals his guitar was taking a backseat to the keyboards up until Counterparts. He complained about it but he was a good foot soldier during that period and adjusted. When Rush made there return after the tragedies that Neil went through, the entire band  experienced a renaissance where young kids discovered them and a whole new demographic was following them - women. Whenever we would follow them on tour, half of the meetups were female and not because of their boyfriends or hubbies but because they truly enjoyed the band.

But you know who hasn't had that kind of renaissance, Clapton, EVH or even Ritchie Blackmore? Those guitarists wrote iconic songs but they were never as versatile as Alex. Click below to find out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luazBVOYa9c

PS - My opinions come not from the fan in me but just how things have turned over a span of time.

I agree with you, but history will likely always see Alex taking a back seat to his fellow bandmates when it comes to recognition.  It's just the way it is.  And I doubt he cares all that much.  Remember that clip from the one documentary where a fan wanted Geddy's autograph and had no idea who the guy (Alex) was sitting next to him?  Alex found it quite funny.  That's just who he is.

I remember that clip well but Geddy has an iconic look kind of like Bono. I just looked at that clip as a casual fan that recognized Geddy. Alex is the real deal, we had a chance to visit with him after the S&A show in Puerto Rico and he was incredibly nice and down to earth. Musical history will smile quite nicely on him.

[WildRanger]

When Rush made there return after the tragedies that Neil went through, the entire band  experienced a renaissance where young kids discovered them and a whole new demographic was following them - women. Whenever we would follow them on tour, half of the meetups were female and not because of their boyfriends or hubbies but because they truly enjoyed the band.

Do you think that Rush had a bigger fanbase in the 21st century than in the early 80's?

[hunnus2000]

When Rush made there return after the tragedies that Neil went through, the entire band  experienced a renaissance where young kids discovered them and a whole new demographic was following them - women. Whenever we would follow them on tour, half of the meetups were female and not because of their boyfriends or hubbies but because they truly enjoyed the band.

Do you think that Rush had a bigger fanbase in the 21st century than in the early 80's?

I do but I don't have numbers to back that up. It's how they were able to play major arenas where bands like Styx have to play smaller venues.

[Dedalus]

The role of the guitar in Rush is very peculiar and interesting.

I clearly remember that when I heard Rush for the first time two things caught my attention: Geddy's bass (because it is my favorite instrument) and that the guitar was PART of the show and not the STAR of the show (as with so many bands around).

Only then did I really notice Peart (I usually take the time to notice the guys who use wood sticks to beat drums  )

[WildRanger]

I clearly remember that when I heard Rush for the first time two things caught my attention: Geddy's bass (because it is my favorite instrument) and that the guitar was PART of the show and not the STAR of the show (as with so many bands around).

Lifeson was the STAR of the show (over Geddy and Neil) on only one Rush studio album - Caress of Steel and that album is so underrecognized and underrated. 

[hunnus2000]

I clearly remember that when I heard Rush for the first time two things caught my attention: Geddy's bass (because it is my favorite instrument) and that the guitar was PART of the show and not the STAR of the show (as with so many bands around).

Lifeson was the STAR of the show (over Geddy and Neil) on only one Rush studio album - Caress of Steel and that album is so underrecognized and underrated. 

OK - Are you being serious or sarcastic?

[kirksnosehair]

Neither.


He's being provocative 

[WildRanger]

I clearly remember that when I heard Rush for the first time two things caught my attention: Geddy's bass (because it is my favorite instrument) and that the guitar was PART of the show and not the STAR of the show (as with so many bands around).

Lifeson was the STAR of the show (over Geddy and Neil) on only one Rush studio album - Caress of Steel and that album is so underrecognized and underrated. 

OK - Are you being serious or sarcastic?

Why would I be sarcastic? I seriously think what I've said. Alex was "the star" of COS(listen to The Necromancer), he was "part of the show" on most other Rush albums.

[pg1067]

I clearly remember that when I heard Rush for the first time two things caught my attention: Geddy's bass (because it is my favorite instrument) and that the guitar was PART of the show and not the STAR of the show (as with so many bands around).

Lifeson was the STAR of the show (over Geddy and Neil) on only one Rush studio album - Caress of Steel and that album is so underrecognized and underrated. 

OK - Are you being serious or sarcastic?

Why would I be sarcastic? I seriously think what I've said. Alex was "the star" of COS(listen to The Necromancer), he was "part of the show" on most other Rush albums.

While I agree that Alex is probably the star or MVP on COS, I think what's being questioned is your assertion that COS is the "only one Rush studio album" on which Alex is the "STAR of the show."  I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm also not sure you're right.  I haven't given it any thought, though, so I'll reserve judgment.

[kirksnosehair]

Alex is the kind of guitarist who is very musical in his playing.  He's never been a very flashy player.  Most of his guitar parts are in service to the song.  That takes a lot of discipline and self-editing in real time.  And it's always been something I've admired about his musicianship.  I may not care for much of their output after Moving Pictures, but I can't imagine Rush with a more flashy player on guitar.  It just wouldn't sound right.  He reminds me a lot of The Edge from U2 - underrated as a player, but mega-talented.  And an uncanny ability to find the perfect riff or phrase that actually improves and/or carries the piece forward.  Like I said earlier, being the weak link in a band like Rush is really more a statement of the level of virtuosity of the other two. 


I always wondered what Rush might have sounded like with a guitarist like Steve Vai or Joe Satriani.  I don't know that it would have worked as well as it did, though. 

[hunnus2000]

I clearly remember that when I heard Rush for the first time two things caught my attention: Geddy's bass (because it is my favorite instrument) and that the guitar was PART of the show and not the STAR of the show (as with so many bands around).

Lifeson was the STAR of the show (over Geddy and Neil) on only one Rush studio album - Caress of Steel and that album is so underrecognized and underrated. 

OK - Are you being serious or sarcastic?

Why would I be sarcastic? I seriously think what I've said. Alex was "the star" of COS(listen to The Necromancer), he was "part of the show" on most other Rush albums.

As far as the guitar being the star of the show, I interpreted that to mean guitar took center stage like when Hendrix/EVH hit the scene. After them came Vai, Satch and a slew of others where the emphasis was truly on guitar. Like I said, ALex's shining moment was GUP but he had some other tremendous moments one of which was PW. His atmospheric moments throughout that album are incredible. Just listen towards the end of Middletown Dreams where he is using volume swells to add to the atmosphere of the song.

Alex is a virtuoso and like someone said earlier, Rush had no weak link. Now U2 - probably the drummer. 

JK

[Dublagent66]

Rush easily.

[KevShmev]

Alex is a virtuoso and like someone said earlier, Rush had no weak link. Now U2 - probably the drummer. 

Larry Mullen is like Ringo or Charlie Watts in that he is really nothing special, but is/was in a band that didn't really need a great drummer to get to an all-time level.  And, if nothing else, he had two of the most iconic drum intros of the 80's (Sunday Bloody Sunday and Bullet the Blue Sky), so you gotta give him that at least.

[WildRanger]

Alex is the kind of guitarist who is very musical in his playing.  He's never been a very flashy player. 

He can be flashy when he wants. See Freewill's solo.

[hunnus2000]

Alex is a virtuoso and like someone said earlier, Rush had no weak link. Now U2 - probably the drummer. 

Larry Mullen is like Ringo or Charlie Watts in that he is really nothing special, but is/was in a band that didn't really need a great drummer to get to an all-time level.  And, if nothing else, he had two of the most iconic drum intros of the 80's (Sunday Bloody Sunday and Bullet the Blue Sky), so you gotta give him that at least.

Yeah - I completely agree with you. I was JK but I recognize that musicians have their place in a band and not all strive to be something different than they want to be. 

[Peter Mc]

I do get people’s point about Alex Lifeson not being held in the same esteem as a guitar player as Peart is as a drummer but that’s a long way from saying he was a weak link.  Unless you’re Jimi Hendrix, you’re not going to be held in the same esteem as Peart so no guitarist on the planet could live up to that.

He’s not generally as flashy as Blackmore although he does have some killer solos.  A lot of his stuff though is more about being innovative in creating these weird jagged guitar moments rather than a really flashy and melodic solo.  There are exceptions to that but a lot of his solos are not traditional guitar solos.  What I will say though is that, when I saw Rush live and watched him, he is incredibly busy just during the song, forget the solos.  I didn’t realise just what a technical player he was until I saw him and just how intricate the songs actually are.

When he actually plays a more traditional solo though, his guitar just sings, he has such a unique and beautiful sound and can shred with the best of them.  Phenomenal, utterly unique and instantly recognisable guitar player.

[WildRanger]

He’s not generally as flashy as Blackmore although he does have some killer solos.  A lot of his stuff though is more about being innovative in creating these weird jagged guitar moments rather than a really flashy and melodic solo. 

You don't find his solos to be melodic? Really?

[WildRanger]

Wow. Now 2112 has 11 votes more than Rising.

[WildRanger]

Let's compare the popularity of these two albums in (North) America vs. Europe.

In North America 2112 is definitely the more popular album than Rising (according to RIAA, 2112 is certified triple Platinum and Rising maybe hasn't even reached Gold) and it has a HIGHER STATUS as a rock classic, while in Europe it's absolutely the other way round.
So if you pit these two albums on some rock fans forum that is primarily North American dominated, 2112 would easily win in that poll, while on some forum that is primarily consisted of European rock fans, Rising will definitely win in that case.

[twosuitsluke]

Let's compare the popularity of these two albums in (North) America vs. Europe.

In North America 2112 is definitely the more popular album than Rising (according to RIAA, 2112 is certified triple Platinum and Rising maybe hasn't even reached Gold) and it has a HIGHER STATUS as a rock classic, while in Europe it's absolutely the other way round.
So if you pit these two albums on some rock fans forum that is primarily North American dominated, 2112 would easily win in that poll, while on some forum that is primarily consisted of European rock fans, Rising will definitely win in that case.

Well now you are able to predict the outcome of polls, based on record sales alone, you may as well stop holding polls.

[NoseofNicko]

Lol.

[KevShmev]

After standing in the rain for an hour, a guy looks down his feet and asks himself out loud, "Why are my feet wet?"

[Stadler]

I don't think Alex was the weak link at all and in fact for years I thought he was the most underrated guitarist in rock. His chord phrasings and his use of tone was IMO ground-breaking. I could give examples of many songs where Alex's playing shines easily as much as NP and GL but suffice to say that there would be no Rush without Alex (and yes I include all three players in that statement).

Rush had no weak link.  Now, I think it does go without saying that Alex was not as highly regarded by the general public, for lack of a better term, on his instrument as the other two (Neil is often call the greatest rock drummer ever or 2nd or 3rd best at worst, and Geddy is usually in the top tier of all-time bassists, while Alex is never in the top tier of guitarists with Hendrix, Page, EVH, Gilmour, Clapton, etc.), but being the least best of those three does not make you a weak link, as being weak implies that your deficiencies held the band back in some way, and that was never the case with Rush.

I completely agree! Alex never really got the respect he deserved until around GUP when he was named Rock Guitarist of the Year by GP magazine. He was always tinkering with his technique and sound and starting with Signals his guitar was taking a backseat to the keyboards up until Counterparts. He complained about it but he was a good foot soldier during that period and adjusted. When Rush made there return after the tragedies that Neil went through, the entire band  experienced a renaissance where young kids discovered them and a whole new demographic was following them - women. Whenever we would follow them on tour, half of the meetups were female and not because of their boyfriends or hubbies but because they truly enjoyed the band.

But you know who hasn't had that kind of renaissance, Clapton, EVH or even Ritchie Blackmore? Those guitarists wrote iconic songs but they were never as versatile as Alex. Click below to find out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luazBVOYa9c

PS - My opinions come not from the fan in me but just how things have turned over a span of time.

Look, I get opinions, you can like or not like his playing, but to say that Blackmore isn't "versatile" is just unfounded.  It's not supported by the facts.  He's got hundreds of sessions under his belt, playing everything from blues, to country, to pop, to rock, to prog.  With Deep Purple, he went from 60's psychedelia to 50's rock to 70's hard rock to proto-metal, to funk, to blues.   With Rainbow, from blues, to folk, to rock to prog, to proto-metal, to pop.   With Blackmore's Night, folk, country, blues, classical (and multiple eras of classical)...

I'm a FAN of Lifeson; he's a particular favorite of mine, but there's no need to undermine Blackmore to defend him. 

[hunnus2000]

I don't think Alex was the weak link at all and in fact for years I thought he was the most underrated guitarist in rock. His chord phrasings and his use of tone was IMO ground-breaking. I could give examples of many songs where Alex's playing shines easily as much as NP and GL but suffice to say that there would be no Rush without Alex (and yes I include all three players in that statement).

Rush had no weak link.  Now, I think it does go without saying that Alex was not as highly regarded by the general public, for lack of a better term, on his instrument as the other two (Neil is often call the greatest rock drummer ever or 2nd or 3rd best at worst, and Geddy is usually in the top tier of all-time bassists, while Alex is never in the top tier of guitarists with Hendrix, Page, EVH, Gilmour, Clapton, etc.), but being the least best of those three does not make you a weak link, as being weak implies that your deficiencies held the band back in some way, and that was never the case with Rush.

I completely agree! Alex never really got the respect he deserved until around GUP when he was named Rock Guitarist of the Year by GP magazine. He was always tinkering with his technique and sound and starting with Signals his guitar was taking a backseat to the keyboards up until Counterparts. He complained about it but he was a good foot soldier during that period and adjusted. When Rush made there return after the tragedies that Neil went through, the entire band  experienced a renaissance where young kids discovered them and a whole new demographic was following them - women. Whenever we would follow them on tour, half of the meetups were female and not because of their boyfriends or hubbies but because they truly enjoyed the band.

But you know who hasn't had that kind of renaissance, Clapton, EVH or even Ritchie Blackmore? Those guitarists wrote iconic songs but they were never as versatile as Alex. Click below to find out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luazBVOYa9c

PS - My opinions come not from the fan in me but just how things have turned over a span of time.

Look, I get opinions, you can like or not like his playing, but to say that Blackmore isn't "versatile" is just unfounded.  It's not supported by the facts.  He's got hundreds of sessions under his belt, playing everything from blues, to country, to pop, to rock, to prog.  With Deep Purple, he went from 60's psychedelia to 50's rock to 70's hard rock to proto-metal, to funk, to blues.   With Rainbow, from blues, to folk, to rock to prog, to proto-metal, to pop.   With Blackmore's Night, folk, country, blues, classical (and multiple eras of classical)...

I'm a FAN of Lifeson; he's a particular favorite of mine, but there's no need to undermine Blackmore to defend him.

Look - I am not here to denigrate RB in defense of AL. I am just stating an observation which based on the output of both artists, I think AL outshines RB.

[Elite]

I personally think it's pointless to engage in a discussion which of the two guitarists was/is 'better'

[Peter Mc]

He’s not generally as flashy as Blackmore although he does have some killer solos.  A lot of his stuff though is more about being innovative in creating these weird jagged guitar moments rather than a really flashy and melodic solo. 

You don't find his solos to be melodic? Really?

Funnily enough, now I’m trying to find an example of what I mean, I can’t find one but I’ve always felt he does quite a few weird solos (for want of a better word).  Not traditional melodic rock guitar solos like a Richie Sambora in Bon Jovi or the classically influenced stuff like Ritchie Blackmore.  More experimental sounding and unexpected.  There are some that are very melodic and beautiful sounding don’t get me wrong, he is a great melodic player both within the song and in solos.  There are many songs though where I’m like “where did this solo come from” it’s not what I was expecting.

I’m probably so used to them now though that they don’t sound weird anymore!

He’s one of the best guitarists I’ve ever seen live.