Author Topic: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty  (Read 215917 times)

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Online King Postwhore

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #595 on: July 12, 2017, 04:43:20 PM »
Damn straight! :metal
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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #596 on: July 12, 2017, 06:25:00 PM »
I have the Eagles grabbing 10-12 wins and the division title. They gave Wentz a LOT of weapons for what should be his breakout season.

Standing firm that the Browns are making solid moves and are 2-3 years away from contending.

The Ravens could be back in Super Bowl contention, but obviously, the Patriots are the team to beat.

I KNOW that the Falcons are due for a Super Bowl hangover season, but they still look terrific on paper. Maybe Tampa can make a move and steal the division.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #597 on: July 12, 2017, 07:53:22 PM »
Yep, I think TB is definitely a team on the rise, especially if Winston keeps getting better.  Their D got better as the season went on last season, and their receiving corps should be outstanding this year.  DeSean Jackson's speed combined with Mike Evans' all-world all-around game will be extremely difficult to defend.

Online El Barto

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #598 on: July 13, 2017, 08:42:00 AM »
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #599 on: July 15, 2017, 07:16:28 AM »
 :lol :lol :lol

We are definitely waiting. :hat

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #600 on: July 20, 2017, 07:14:10 PM »
Tony Dungy ranked Brady the 6th best QB of the modern era (1978-present). I knew he sucked as an analyst, but holy smokes. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #601 on: July 20, 2017, 07:31:12 PM »
Personal feelings got in the way of that one.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Online TAC

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #602 on: July 20, 2017, 07:38:11 PM »
More like Butt Feelings got in the way.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #603 on: July 20, 2017, 07:39:19 PM »
Well, butt yeah.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #604 on: July 20, 2017, 07:42:08 PM »
And it's not like he voted strictly on personal feelings across the board.  He didn't even have Manning in his top 3.

Top 5 from the main ESPN list was:

1 Brady
2 Manning
3 Montana
4 Elway
5 Rodgers

Online El Barto

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #605 on: July 20, 2017, 08:55:26 PM »
And it's not like he voted strictly on personal feelings across the board.  He didn't even have Manning in his top 3.

Top 5 from the main ESPN list was:

1 Brady
2 Manning
3 Montana
4 Elway
5 Rodgers
I don't think I'd put Eli that high on the list.
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #606 on: July 20, 2017, 09:07:39 PM »
And it's not like he voted strictly on personal feelings across the board.  He didn't even have Manning in his top 3.

Top 5 from the main ESPN list was:

1 Brady
2 Manning
3 Montana
4 Elway
5 Rodgers
I don't think I'd put Eli that high on the list.

 :lol
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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #607 on: July 21, 2017, 08:01:42 AM »
And it's not like he voted strictly on personal feelings across the board.  He didn't even have Manning in his top 3.

Top 5 from the main ESPN list was:

1 Brady
2 Manning
3 Montana
4 Elway
5 Rodgers
I don't think I'd put Eli that high on the list.

Well played.  :) 

I have Aikman on there, and Rodgers wishing he had another Super Bowl ring and a better coach.  I might even have Favre on there too (though I have to think about that a bit). 

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #608 on: July 21, 2017, 08:26:04 AM »
Rogers is really the only one I'm not sure about. even the order works for me. Maybe Steve Young gets that slot. Maybe Favre.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #609 on: July 21, 2017, 08:47:59 AM »
I'm just naturally suspicious of lists that seem to be heavily biased in favor of current (or very recent) players, like that one is.  I mean, yeah, there's an argument to be made that training and just raw athleticism have evolved to the point where our athletes of today clearly ARE superior to athlete's 30 years ago.  But still, it just smacks a bit of short term memory bias.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #610 on: July 21, 2017, 09:15:09 AM »
So, not sure how many outside this market followed, but Michael Vick made a comment the other day about Kaepernick saying that if Kaep really wants to get signed with a team, the first thing he should do is get a hair cut.  I heard it, and in context, I don't think there was anything offensive about it or that it was meant in a mean-spirited way, even if it might have been a bit boneheaded and/or out of touch.  Apparently, he has since apologized and taken it back:  https://www.yahoo.com/sports/mike-vick-says-hes-sorry-telling-colin-kaepernick-cut-hair-175554398.html  Specifically, he said:

Quote
At the end of the day, what I said, I should have never said. I think it was taken out of context in regards to what I was trying to convey, but I only want to help Kaepernick.  I’m not a general manager, I’m not the guy who makes the decisions on getting him signed, and I’m truly sorry for what I said. I think I should have used a better choice of words.

Obviously his Afro has nothing to do with him being signed and I wasn’t trying to relay that message. It was more so about helping him at the end of the day. In all my interviews all I have ever tried to do is help him and talk positive.

I'm curious what people think of this.  I'm not saying I'm right, but here's my two cents on the subject:

First off, again, I don't really see too much of a problem with the original comments.  In context, I think what he was trying to say, although perhaps a bit inartfully, is that Kaep has earned himself a reputation of being controversial and being anti-establishment to the point where that is offputting to many, including those in a position to hire and/or manage him as a player on their teams.  Couple that with his declining skill, and that will naturally be an obstacle to getting him signed.  But if he took steps to remove/repair that controversial image, that could only help him out. 

Personally, I don't have a problem with that philosophy at all.  Yeah, you can be a rebel or be outspoken about the cause of your choice, and that's all great.  But I also think that part of being a grown up is recognizing that, no matter how noble your cause might be, there are real-world consequences for voicing your views, and if you want something for yourself that will be nearly impossible to get because your actions or appearance or speech will be offensive to those in a position to give you what you want, you need to recognize that and made a decision about which is more important rather than being offended that you can't have it both ways.  I liken it to when I was in law school, and in second and third year when people were applying for jobs, those with lots of piercings and/or tons of visible tattoos and/or wildly colored/styled hair were whining about not being able to get jobs and people in law firms not accepting them for who they are.  Yeah, I get it.  Your personal appearance is important to your personal identity.  Nothing wrong with that.  But there's also nothing wrong with those who work in a conservative environment feeling that it is inappropriate for that environment.  So quit whining about it, recognize the issue, and just make your choice. 

Second, I'm kind of long tired about living in a society where people feel the need to make contrived apologies that sound like they were simply told by those in power that they had better say something that sounds like an apology "or else."  He isn't really apologizing.  And his apology misses the point anyway.  He absolutely DID mean that the Afro was a potential obstacle to Kaep getting signed, although I think he was trying to make a bigger point.  If he wants to apologize and say that, in retrospect, he was wrong, then okay, fine.  But to recant and say that that isn't what he meant when clearly it was pretty much renders his "apology" a nullity.  And that, in and of itself, makes this a bigger story than it should be as far as I'm concerned.  And, again, the reason why is that, to me, the bigger story isn't what Kaep or Vick have said or done.  It is now about the fake society we live in where people have to back pedal and recant just because of some unjustified (or, often, completely contrived) outrage.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.  I am fully open and prepared to be convinced that I am offbase or flat out wrong.  What say you, DTF?


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Offline Samsara

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #611 on: July 21, 2017, 09:31:11 AM »
To me, it all comes down to business. If you want a particular job, and there is an expectation on you to perform a role and present yourself in a particular manner, you do it. Otherwise, someone else will get that job. Kaepernick has a lot riding against him. It's not so much his hair, although wearing a huge afro obviously makes him stand OUT from the crowd. As does his...decisions last year.

Not many franchise owners want to entrust their franchise's performance and most high profile position to a guy that purposefully makes sure he stands out in the crowd and makes "issues" for the league. A QB is the face of the franchise. How many of them are extremely controversial in the league? Look down the list...really, none of them, except maybe for Cam Newton, and Cam has been a bit more low key recently.

So, I get what Vick was saying (he would know). I don't think it was the wisest move given the huge media attention he should have known that statement would have made, but I get his overall point -- if you want to be a starting QB in the NFL, you need to get with the program and stop making yourself above the team. But frankly, I don't think Kaepernick is able to do that going forward. And as a result, the best he can really expect is to be a backup somewhere...maybe. Dude shot his career in the foot last year with his "protest" antics. Had he instead stood for the flag, and in his off time and in the off season, pursued his social and political convictions, things might have been different. Because as the QB, you represent not just yourself, but a franchise, a franchise owner, the fan base, and community. And Kaepernick thought he had enough clout to do that. he was wrong. And he should have known better.

So Vick's hair comment, to me, was just another way of telling Kaepernick to stop being such a distraction and sticking out. Blend in, and you'll get a job. Continue to purposefully stand out, you won't. And while we're all about individual freedom in the U.S., if you want a job, you're expected to act and look the part, otherwise someone else will get it -- a lesson Kaepernick is waist-deep in learning.

Edit -- and I don't think Vick should have had to apologize for what he said either. He was trying to impart some learned wisdom. his error was doing it publicly. He should have just called Kaepernick and told him straight out.

As for the upcoming 2017 season, all I can say is:

J-E-T-S SUCK SUCK SUCK. Sigh...  :facepalm: :tdwn
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Online El Barto

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #612 on: July 21, 2017, 09:32:51 AM »
No argument from me. He's crafted an image, and for better or for worse the image is holding him back. And it's not the first time this has happened. Terrell Owens ran into problems because of appearances. Keyshawn Johnson. Johnny Manziel. And they all had greater skills. Sometimes your talent is enough to overcome the behavioral barriers (Michael Irvin, Randy Moss, occasionally TO), but most of the time it's not. Kap simply doesn't have the talent to make teams want to accept the baggage.

Truth be told, if he cut his hair and started practicing wearing God Bless America T-shirts I doubt it would be enough.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #613 on: July 21, 2017, 09:38:31 AM »

Truth be told, if he cut his hair and started practicing wearing God Bless America T-shirts I doubt it would be enough.

Nope, he's done. And it's a shame too, because he was an electrifying player for a time.
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #614 on: July 21, 2017, 09:47:34 AM »
All I gotta say is Vick has a lot nerve talking about someone else's hair.   :lol
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Offline cramx3

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #615 on: July 21, 2017, 09:52:34 AM »

Truth be told, if he cut his hair and started practicing wearing God Bless America T-shirts I doubt it would be enough.

Nope, he's done. And it's a shame too, because he was an electrifying player for a time.

Yea, I'm not sure there's really anything he can do at this point besides hoping a QB gets injured and he gets a roster spot and somehow makes it into a game and makes a positive impact.  Very uphill battle for him.

Also, I have no issue with what Vick said other than the fact that Vick making these statements is sort of irrelevant because he's the last person someone should take advice from.  But the reality, your looks sometimes do play a role in getting a job.  I kind of doubt that's the case here, but becoming more presentable wouldn't hurt his chances of getting a job.

Offline bosk1

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #616 on: July 21, 2017, 09:52:55 AM »
Samsara said what I was trying to say just about perfectly.  I agree with every word of it. 

And as far as Kaep being pretty much done no matter what, I agree.  During the season they made their Super Bowl run, he truly was electrifying.  And it wasn't just the run plays.  If you look back and watch some of the throws he made during that season, his performance really was impressive.  But that player has been sadly missing ever since, other than glimpses here and there.  And exactly why his skill as a QB has been MIA since then is a mystery to me. 

All I gotta say is Vick has a lot nerve talking about someone else's hair.   :lol

Yeah, I get that.  And that's a fair response.  But I really do think he was trying to offer some learned advice rather than being a hypocrite. 
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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #617 on: July 21, 2017, 10:10:56 AM »
What Vick was trying to say was you have to change your perception to get that second chance.  I think the hair cut was symbolic like Vick speaking out and showing up for animal cruelty events.  You have to show remorse or even to those bastard owners that you can fit in and not make waves.

If Kap was playing like his first 3 years, he would have the leeway to speak out.
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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #618 on: July 21, 2017, 10:15:36 AM »
In all fairness to all of the points being made, Dog Killer did exactly what Kap can do. He was done, too. Once an injury got him on the field he turned in a fantastic season. He went from washed up to MVP when nobody could have expected it. Of course he promptly reverted to washed up after the season, but it earned him a few more years. It's conceivable that Kap could do the same thing, though I'd certainly bet against it.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #619 on: July 21, 2017, 10:21:14 AM »
I don't think we found that out until he came back.  Maybe my memory was poor but was he in decline that much in Atlanta?
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #620 on: July 21, 2017, 04:15:54 PM »
I think that focusing on someone's haircut is rather foolish. Some very recent players in the league have sported some abnormal hair styles. Troy Polamalu, anyone?

However, if he were to focus on his image as far as how he's perceived then I can understand the sentiment even though I think that it's mis-placed. Personally, I have no issue with anything that he's done. He chose to protest peacefully, and he excersized a constitutional right in a non-violent manner. A lot of the times that I hear people bashing him for it it sounds like hypocrisy. There are felons and criminals on every roster in the NFL, but I hardly hear a single word about those players unless one of them decides to beat the shit out of their wife in an elevator.

Are we that sensitive as a society that we can't withstand a sports figure taking a knee during our anthem? I think that it reflects much more poorly on us as a nation than on him as a player.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #621 on: July 21, 2017, 04:19:53 PM »
I think that focusing on someone's haircut is rather foolish. Some very recent players in the league have sported some abnormal hair styles. Troy Polamalu, anyone?

However, if he were to focus on his image as far as how he's perceived then I can understand the sentiment even though I think that it's mis-placed. Personally, I have no issue with anything that he's done. He chose to protest peacefully, and he excersized a constitutional right in a non-violent manner. A lot of the times that I hear people bashing him for it it sounds like hypocrisy. There are felons and criminals on every roster in the NFL, but I hardly hear a single word about those players unless one of them decides to beat the shit out of their wife in an elevator.

Are we that sensitive as a society that we can't withstand a sports figure taking a knee during our anthem? I think that it reflects much more poorly on us as a nation than on him as a player.

I disagree though, while domestic violence is significantly worse, taking a knee during the anthem is considered very offensive to many people.  I think some people need to understand that it pisses people off regardless of whatever anyone else thinks.  I don't think it should bar him from playing, I would say domestic violence should bar people from playing if anything, but to just outright ignore the fact kneeing offends some people is foolish.  And yes, we are an extremely sensitive society apparently, and this is only just one example.

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #622 on: July 21, 2017, 04:25:50 PM »
I think that focusing on someone's haircut is rather foolish. Some very recent players in the league have sported some abnormal hair styles. Troy Polamalu, anyone?

However, if he were to focus on his image as far as how he's perceived then I can understand the sentiment even though I think that it's mis-placed. Personally, I have no issue with anything that he's done. He chose to protest peacefully, and he excersized a constitutional right in a non-violent manner. A lot of the times that I hear people bashing him for it it sounds like hypocrisy. There are felons and criminals on every roster in the NFL, but I hardly hear a single word about those players unless one of them decides to beat the shit out of their wife in an elevator.

Are we that sensitive as a society that we can't withstand a sports figure taking a knee during our anthem? I think that it reflects much more poorly on us as a nation than on him as a player.

I disagree though, while domestic violence is significantly worse, taking a knee during the anthem is considered very offensive to many people.  I think some people need to understand that it pisses people off regardless of whatever anyone else thinks.  I don't think it should bar him from playing, I would say domestic violence should bar people from playing if anything, but to just outright ignore the fact kneeing offends some people is foolish.  And yes, we are an extremely sensitive society apparently, and this is only just one example.
And the offense they take is profoundly hypocritical. It's nothing more than being upset that somebody doesn't agree with you. If he mooned the flag or flipped off the singer the whole time then I could see being offended. That's openly disrespectful. I see what he's doing as passive. He chooses not to display the traditional honor.

In any case, he's simply not a good enough player to be able to make such statements.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #623 on: July 21, 2017, 04:28:34 PM »
Maybe so, but people, especially people who served, don't see it as a difference of opinion, but respect for the country (right or wrong, which is very much debatable).  I'd rather not get into that debate again, but your end point is right, his skill isn't good enough for teams to look past this.  And sadly that's how the NFL operates, if you are good enough, they will put up with your disagreements.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #624 on: July 21, 2017, 05:00:49 PM »
I saw Vick's comments live (or on DVR that evening) when he said what he said about Kaepernick and I didn't think it was a great point or offensive; I just thought it was kind of a bizarre point.

Rogers is really the only one I'm not sure about. even the order works for me. Maybe Steve Young gets that slot. Maybe Favre.

Young at his peak was as good as any QB ever, but he didn't have longevity.

To compare him to Rodgers, Young started 143 games, 19 of which were for TB.

Rodgers has started 135 games, so he is neck and neck with Young as far as longevity goes.

Favre (who tied for 6th on this list was Marino) had an incredible peak as well, but the back half of his career was far too turnover-heavy.  Rodgers has thrown 71 INTs in 135 NFL starts.  Favre threw 336 INTs in 298 starts.

I am fine with Rodgers being ahead of both Favre and Young.

Offline bosk1

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #625 on: July 21, 2017, 05:22:45 PM »
I have no problems with any names on that list, ranked pretty much however you like.  It all really comes down to just figuring out which criteria you feel should be emphasized the most, which I find to be hard to argue with too much no matter where you come down on that.
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Offline DragonAttack

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #626 on: July 27, 2017, 12:36:55 PM »
https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/07/in-wake-of-cte-study-ravens-smarty-john-urschel-retires-from-football-at-26/

In light of the most recent study, who's to blame him (and others) for doing the same? 

...going along with Dragon Attack's Queen thread has been like taking a free class in Queen knowledge. Where else are you gonna find info like that?!

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #627 on: July 27, 2017, 12:44:08 PM »
He's the 5th player that the Ravens have "lost" in 57 days. Can't fault him for his decision. Next man up!

Offline cramx3

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #628 on: July 27, 2017, 12:47:51 PM »
Love John Urschel.  He's the type of person that makes me feel good to be a Penn Stater (I've been following loosely from his time in college).  Guy is super bright and can see the bigger picture for himself.  Good for him.

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #629 on: July 27, 2017, 12:59:50 PM »
I think that's a reasonable stance to take. People will continue to play football, but I think you might see some people retiring earlier out of respect to the odds. Urschel has made a little over 1.8 million in his 3 year career. That's a pretty nice way to start off the rest of your life at 26. A reasonable person can consider how many years they're willing to accept the risk vs how much money is enough for them to not worry about it anymore. A sixth year LB who's made ~10mil is the sort of guy that needs to consider if another 6 years is worth it.

Where things fall apart is with the people who no longer care about the money. Tom Brady would probably play for free right now, as he's seeking something more meaningful for him. I doubt concussion concerns factor into that. Personal value decision, I suppose.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson