MP's Shattered Fortress Tour

[cramx3]

Yea, I have to think The Glass Prison will be the highlight for me.

[Adami]

I think Repentance would have been my favorite if not for MP singing it. But given the way things are, Home seems like it would be really fun.

[ToT-147]

Talking of back to back, even though I didn't go to the show I'm a little annoyed at how they don't play the entire suite in a row, since that was supposedly the whole point of the saga. I completely understand nobody wants to pass out from exhaustion by playing the whole run from Glass Prison to Root of All Evil, but I would have though there would have been a way to sneak it in a little break, like towards the end of Metropolis, to let the band breathe a little, and then connect This Dying Soul straight into Root (or find musical workarounds since I understand you need a different tuning for those songs).

It'd sound like this: https://youtu.be/TrZT_EyxXGk?t=1509 The key change is not that big deal as it is the exhaustion IMO..

[bosk1]

I think he means that the key change is a big deal just from the standpoint of the guitarists and bass player having to switch instruments, which I get.  Of course, there are workarounds.  They could, for example, just digitally modulate that song down through their effects boards, as rumborak explained in another thread, although musicians tend to be loathe to do that for some reason.  Or, since they have three guitarists, one of the three could just stop playing during the last section of TDS and switch guitars, and then at the transition point, he jumps back in and starts playing the opening riff of Root while the others switch instruments.  It can be done.  I guess Mike just preferred to play it the way they are playing it, since it is a suite of separate songs and not one continuous song anyway. 

[ToT-147]

And also they would be cutting up a fragment of song, i.e. the beginning of TRoAE.. Same with the next transition; although there they leave an unnecessary silence between the two songs.. But yeah, Idk, I'm personally fine with whatever choice he makes about the transition and this kind of things... I'm even cool with whatever song he decides to play (as long as is a DT song) so..

[antigoon]

I'll be there in New York and the only thing that would make this set any better for me personally would be the inclusion of Fatal Tragedy, which I think after all these years has become my favorite Dream Theater song and the one I'm most likely to go back to when I'm craving some DT.

[MirrorMask]

And also they would be cutting up a fragment of song, i.e. the beginning of TRoAE..

The very few first seconds of This Dying Soul are cut anyway to allow Glass Prison to flow seamlessly into it. Do it yourself if you have minimal editing skills, or look for YouTube 'cause I'm sure there must be a video of it - the "real" intro of Root is just meant to flow directly from the last note of This Dying Soul, once you hear them back to back you realize it was meant to be.

[bosk1]

Talking of back to back, even though I didn't go to the show I'm a little annoyed at how they don't play the entire suite in a row, since that was supposedly the whole point of the saga. I completely understand nobody wants to pass out from exhaustion by playing the whole run from Glass Prison to Root of All Evil, but I would have though there would have been a way to sneak it in a little break, like towards the end of Metropolis, to let the band breathe a little, and then connect This Dying Soul straight into Root (or find musical workarounds since I understand you need a different tuning for those songs).

It'd sound like this: https://youtu.be/TrZT_EyxXGk?t=1509 The key change is not that big deal as it is the exhaustion IMO..

Oh yeah, I forgot that they just went right into it like that on the cruise.  Cool.

[MirrorMask]

Ah ok, so they did it! and it sounds pretty cool.

[mikeyd23]

Talking of back to back, even though I didn't go to the show I'm a little annoyed at how they don't play the entire suite in a row, since that was supposedly the whole point of the saga. I completely understand nobody wants to pass out from exhaustion by playing the whole run from Glass Prison to Root of All Evil, but I would have though there would have been a way to sneak it in a little break, like towards the end of Metropolis, to let the band breathe a little, and then connect This Dying Soul straight into Root (or find musical workarounds since I understand you need a different tuning for those songs).

It'd sound like this: https://youtu.be/TrZT_EyxXGk?t=1509 The key change is not that big deal as it is the exhaustion IMO..

Oh yeah, I forgot that they just went right into it like that on the cruise.  Cool.

Yeah, that transition totally works, sounds good to me!

[Stadler]

If what you know (or, 'think you know') isn't accurate, then BY DEFINITION it's not fact, and if you're basing your conclusions on something that isn't fact, it's speculation.

I kind of agree with you that we don't know the situation and therefore shouldn't be saying anything about Portnoy -or judging him- regarding his private life, and this include his past (or probably even current) life with DT..

But the situation we DO know is his commenting on social media.. So we were/are, at least most of us, judging those comments of him, and how they're, at best, poor combinations of words that leave us, the DT fans, and some MP fans too, way too confused, upset or at least uncomfortable..

Moreover, WHY does he feel the need to make those kind of comments?.. Why does he choose to make those cryptic sentences before US?.. With the experience he has on forums and social networks, I'm pretty sure he knows very well what happens when a famous person makes this type of statements... Is that what he wants?..

YES YES YES!!  This is what I'm saying.    WHY?    And some of us just jump to "he's a passive aggressive dickhead" and some of us say "well there's more to the story!"    Mike may STILL be wrong, he may STILL be unreasonable, but unless and until we know WHY we can't really say for any certainty.   I trust the people telling me I don't have the full story, and so I'm secure enough to say "I can't really tell here."  So I prefer not to call someone a "passive aggressive dick" without the full story. 

[Samsara]

To be honest, the suite itself doesn't generate a lot of interest for me as it does hearing Dream Theater songs in a looser manner, done almost if not AS good as Dream Theater itself. Watching the YouTube clips, my highlight would probably be Home, but really, I just think MP has done a great job at putting this together.

Hopefully for the NYC crowd (miss my hometown), MP pulls out something very special for everyone. Although I totally expect him to play a DT song or two with his new band when they starting touring. But that's for another thread, of course...

[Stadler]

Why wouldn't you look for as much information as you can to make sure you're correct in your assumptions?    It's like saying "Hmm, I'm a huge Ritchie Blackmore fan; I'm going to invest in my life savings to follow Deep Purple around on this last tour" and totally and willfully ignoring that Ritchie left the band two decades ago. 

Don't you at all question the validity of drawing a conclusion when you KNOW that you don't have the full story?   

Not applicable here.  Those that are drawing conclusions are drawing conclusions based on Mike's own comments.  There is no "full story" necessary.  What's more, there is no "full story" available, so trying to fill in the blanks requires speculation.  But, again, it isn't even necessary to get to that stage because, again, any back story isn't what people are largely commenting on.  People are commenting on the fact that he can't help himself from publicly taking shots at his former bandmates.  If he "tended his own garden," "stayed in his own lane," or however you want to put it, there wouldn't be anything to comment on.  But he doesn't.  He airs it out.  Why or what might underlie that is irrelevant.

So you're saying that the issue is the airing out?  I can get behind that.  I don't have any beef with that.  I personally wouldn't probably be talking about my shit on Twitter.    It is what it is, though. 

This may be my bad... I thought he explicitly said that he would not be releasing a live DVD because of "drama from DT".  I could have sworn I read that.

He did reference "drama," but we have no idea what that means without speculating.  It could mean he has asked and DT withheld consent.  It could mean he was told, "Yeah, that's fine.  Talk to the lawyers to make sure it is all handled correctly" and he didn't want to be bothered and subjectively felt that, since they used to be like family, he shouldn't have to jump through those hoops.  It could mean that he didn't even bother asking because of any number of imagined boogeymen exist in his own mind.  It could be any number of things.  Again, we just don't know, and you are speculating that his comment means something that is actually attributable to the band.

You're right, we don't know.  But here's where the rubber meets the road:  I'm NOT saying "Mike is RIGHT".  I'm saying "we don't know so I give both parties the benefit of the doubt".    So if we don't know, how can you (collective) conclude that he's wrong?  That's where the other information comes in.

A car pulls into your driveway, driven by a man.  Your wife gets out, completely naked, holding a used condom and says, "I can't talk about it now, but there's more to this than it seems".   What do you do?   Do you say "well, the backstory is irrelevant, and you're naked, with a condom with a man's semen in it, clearly not mine, and I want a divorce."?     What if it turns out that the driver is a gay nurse who found your wife after she was abducted and the condom is evidence that she stole so that she could catch the perps?  Wouldn't you want the back story?   

[Stadler]

Maybe you and I are commenting on different things then, I'm commenting on MP's public comments.

AND

There probably is more to the story, I don't know anything you don't know. Once again, I'm commenting on the publicly available information.

We KNOW there is more to the story.  We KNOW it.   That's my point; you can't ignore the facts that don't support your argument.   It's public information that there is  more to the story.   

Once again, I've never called MP a "dickhead" so I'll assume you are referring to someone else.

I'm not referring to any one person specifically, though "passive aggressive" has come up a couple times by multiple people.

[Stadler]

Talking of back to back, even though I didn't go to the show I'm a little annoyed at how they don't play the entire suite in a row, since that was supposedly the whole point of the saga. I completely understand nobody wants to pass out from exhaustion by playing the whole run from Glass Prison to Root of All Evil, but I would have though there would have been a way to sneak it in a little break, like towards the end of Metropolis, to let the band breathe a little, and then connect This Dying Soul straight into Root (or find musical workarounds since I understand you need a different tuning for those songs).

So it's in order, but each song is a stand alone song?  Is that it?   

[Stadler]

I'll be there in New York and the only thing that would make this set any better for me personally would be the inclusion of Fatal Tragedy, which I think after all these years has become my favorite Dream Theater song and the one I'm most likely to go back to when I'm craving some DT.

I'm there too.  Who else is going?   Does anyone know what the "VIP" means?   Will we have to stand in line long for the doors (for Gene Simmons, similar size place, at 4:00 for a 7:30 show there was almost no line. 

[Ben_Jamin]

Talking of back to back, even though I didn't go to the show I'm a little annoyed at how they don't play the entire suite in a row, since that was supposedly the whole point of the saga. I completely understand nobody wants to pass out from exhaustion by playing the whole run from Glass Prison to Root of All Evil, but I would have though there would have been a way to sneak it in a little break, like towards the end of Metropolis, to let the band breathe a little, and then connect This Dying Soul straight into Root (or find musical workarounds since I understand you need a different tuning for those songs).

It'd sound like this: https://youtu.be/TrZT_EyxXGk?t=1509 The key change is not that big deal as it is the exhaustion IMO..

Oh yeah, I forgot that they just went right into it like that on the cruise.  Cool.

I think He could've done that transition the same amount of times in the intro to Root, just with the full added. It seems abrupt to me, but adding the other parts makes that Riff more like the saga riffs.

[bosk1]

Why wouldn't you look for as much information as you can to make sure you're correct in your assumptions?    It's like saying "Hmm, I'm a huge Ritchie Blackmore fan; I'm going to invest in my life savings to follow Deep Purple around on this last tour" and totally and willfully ignoring that Ritchie left the band two decades ago. 

Don't you at all question the validity of drawing a conclusion when you KNOW that you don't have the full story?   

Not applicable here.  Those that are drawing conclusions are drawing conclusions based on Mike's own comments.  There is no "full story" necessary.  What's more, there is no "full story" available, so trying to fill in the blanks requires speculation.  But, again, it isn't even necessary to get to that stage because, again, any back story isn't what people are largely commenting on.  People are commenting on the fact that he can't help himself from publicly taking shots at his former bandmates.  If he "tended his own garden," "stayed in his own lane," or however you want to put it, there wouldn't be anything to comment on.  But he doesn't.  He airs it out.  Why or what might underlie that is irrelevant.

So you're saying that the issue is the airing out?  I can get behind that.  I don't have any beef with that.  I personally wouldn't probably be talking about my shit on Twitter.    It is what it is, though.

Of course that is the issue.  He shouldn't be airing that kind of thing out.  Whether or not there is some justification or excuse for him to feel that way is irrelevant.  It is the fact that he is publicly taking shots at people that is the issue.  Man up and handle your business directly with the people involved, or if that's not possible, let it go.  Don't take public shots at people and air your garbage, especially in a way that one should know is only likely to be further divisive.

This may be my bad... I thought he explicitly said that he would not be releasing a live DVD because of "drama from DT".  I could have sworn I read that.

He did reference "drama," but we have no idea what that means without speculating.  It could mean he has asked and DT withheld consent.  It could mean he was told, "Yeah, that's fine.  Talk to the lawyers to make sure it is all handled correctly" and he didn't want to be bothered and subjectively felt that, since they used to be like family, he shouldn't have to jump through those hoops.  It could mean that he didn't even bother asking because of any number of imagined boogeymen exist in his own mind.  It could be any number of things.  Again, we just don't know, and you are speculating that his comment means something that is actually attributable to the band.

You're right, we don't know.  But here's where the rubber meets the road:  I'm NOT saying "Mike is RIGHT".  I'm saying "we don't know so I give both parties the benefit of the doubt".    So if we don't know, how can you (collective) conclude that he's wrong?  That's where the other information comes in.

A car pulls into your driveway, driven by a man.  Your wife gets out, completely naked, holding a used condom and says, "I can't talk about it now, but there's more to this than it seems".   What do you do?   Do you say "well, the backstory is irrelevant, and you're naked, with a condom with a man's semen in it, clearly not mine, and I want a divorce."?     What if it turns out that the driver is a gay nurse who found your wife after she was abducted and the condom is evidence that she stole so that she could catch the perps?  Wouldn't you want the back story?   

That analogy is completely inapplicable to what we are talking about.  I don't care what "drama" he is talking about, and nobody else in the thread as far as I can remember does either.  YOU are the only one making a judgment about what that drama means.  I don't really care what he's referring to, and I'm not making any value judgments.

[ToT-147]

And also they would be cutting up a fragment of song, i.e. the beginning of TRoAE..

The very few first seconds of This Dying Soul are cut anyway to allow Glass Prison to flow seamlessly into it. Do it yourself if you have minimal editing skills, or look for YouTube 'cause I'm sure there must be a video of it - the "real" intro of Root is just meant to flow directly from the last note of This Dying Soul, once you hear them back to back you realize it was meant to be.

I like to think I have.. In fact, I just made you guys think that it happened something that really never happened! .. They didn't do that transition on the cruise (as neither they are doing it now), as you can check here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwgK_TLx7ig

I also added the broken glass sound effect in between the TGP/TDS transition https://youtu.be/TrZT_EyxXGk?t=823, and some other little nuggets I felt free to include here and there..


About the TGP/TDS transition itself, yeah, they are kinda cutting the start of TDS, or the ending of TGP, depending on how you see it, because is the very same arrangement anyway..

[cramx3]

I'll be there in New York and the only thing that would make this set any better for me personally would be the inclusion of Fatal Tragedy, which I think after all these years has become my favorite Dream Theater song and the one I'm most likely to go back to when I'm craving some DT.

I'm there too.  Who else is going?   Does anyone know what the "VIP" means?   Will we have to stand in line long for the doors (for Gene Simmons, similar size place, at 4:00 for a 7:30 show there was almost no line.

I am going and bought a VIP ticket, the VIP as far as I know only means you have access to the balcony.  The balcony in these small ballrooms is a clutch spot to watch if you aren't in the first couple rows on the floor.  I thought it was worth it for only like $15 more.

[Stadler]

Why wouldn't you look for as much information as you can to make sure you're correct in your assumptions?    It's like saying "Hmm, I'm a huge Ritchie Blackmore fan; I'm going to invest in my life savings to follow Deep Purple around on this last tour" and totally and willfully ignoring that Ritchie left the band two decades ago. 

Don't you at all question the validity of drawing a conclusion when you KNOW that you don't have the full story?   

Not applicable here.  Those that are drawing conclusions are drawing conclusions based on Mike's own comments.  There is no "full story" necessary.  What's more, there is no "full story" available, so trying to fill in the blanks requires speculation.  But, again, it isn't even necessary to get to that stage because, again, any back story isn't what people are largely commenting on.  People are commenting on the fact that he can't help himself from publicly taking shots at his former bandmates.  If he "tended his own garden," "stayed in his own lane," or however you want to put it, there wouldn't be anything to comment on.  But he doesn't.  He airs it out.  Why or what might underlie that is irrelevant.

So you're saying that the issue is the airing out?  I can get behind that.  I don't have any beef with that.  I personally wouldn't probably be talking about my shit on Twitter.    It is what it is, though.

Of course that is the issue.  He shouldn't be airing that kind of thing out.  Whether or not there is some justification or excuse for him to feel that way is irrelevant.  It is the fact that he is publicly taking shots at people that is the issue.  Man up and handle your business directly with the people involved, or if that's not possible, let it go.  Don't take public shots at people and air your garbage, especially in a way that one should know is only likely to be further divisive.

Don't ever let anyone tell you the debate here is meaningless.   It took us a while, but I at least understand that point and don't disagree with it.  Preferably, none of this would be handled via social media. 

That analogy is completely inapplicable to what we are talking about.  I don't care what "drama" he is talking about, and nobody else in the thread as far as I can remember does either.  YOU are the only one making a judgment about what that drama means.  I don't really care what he's referring to, and I'm not making any value judgments.

Well, I'm not making a judgment about what it means, just that it's there.  And I thought my analogy was pretty spot on.   

[Stadler]

I'll be there in New York and the only thing that would make this set any better for me personally would be the inclusion of Fatal Tragedy, which I think after all these years has become my favorite Dream Theater song and the one I'm most likely to go back to when I'm craving some DT.

I'm there too.  Who else is going?   Does anyone know what the "VIP" means?   Will we have to stand in line long for the doors (for Gene Simmons, similar size place, at 4:00 for a 7:30 show there was almost no line.

I am going and bought a VIP ticket, the VIP as far as I know only means you have access to the balcony.  The balcony in these small ballrooms is a clutch spot to watch if you aren't in the first couple rows on the floor.  I thought it was worth it for only like $15 more.

Can you go back and forth if you want?   

[Adami]

Did someone call him a dickhead or a dick? I didn't read that, but I did skim a bit.

Calling him passive aggressive is fine. It's not an insult, it's an observation. Dude is being passive aggressive.

[bosk1]

Did someone call him a dickhead or a dick? I didn't read that, but I did skim a bit.

I don't think so.  But even if they did, I STILL don't think any backstory is necessary to form that conclusion.  Some people can spot a dick a mile away.

[cramx3]

I'll be there in New York and the only thing that would make this set any better for me personally would be the inclusion of Fatal Tragedy, which I think after all these years has become my favorite Dream Theater song and the one I'm most likely to go back to when I'm craving some DT.

I'm there too.  Who else is going?   Does anyone know what the "VIP" means?   Will we have to stand in line long for the doors (for Gene Simmons, similar size place, at 4:00 for a 7:30 show there was almost no line.

I am going and bought a VIP ticket, the VIP as far as I know only means you have access to the balcony.  The balcony in these small ballrooms is a clutch spot to watch if you aren't in the first couple rows on the floor.  I thought it was worth it for only like $15 more.

Can you go back and forth if you want?

Yea you should be able to.

[DarkChestOfWonders]

Some people can spot a dick a mile away.

Can you go back and forth if you want?

[bosk1]

[MirrorMask]

And also they would be cutting up a fragment of song, i.e. the beginning of TRoAE..

The very few first seconds of This Dying Soul are cut anyway to allow Glass Prison to flow seamlessly into it. Do it yourself if you have minimal editing skills, or look for YouTube 'cause I'm sure there must be a video of it - the "real" intro of Root is just meant to flow directly from the last note of This Dying Soul, once you hear them back to back you realize it was meant to be.

I like to think I have.. In fact, I just made you guys think that it happened something that really never happened! .. They didn't do that transition on the cruise (as neither they are doing it now), as you can check here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwgK_TLx7ig

I also added the broken glass sound effect in between the TGP/TDS transition https://youtu.be/TrZT_EyxXGk?t=823, and some other little nuggets I felt free to include here and there..


About the TGP/TDS transition itself, yeah, they are kinda cutting the start of TDS, or the ending of TGP, depending on how you see it, because is the very same arrangement anyway..

Ok, you definitively have more than minimal skills 

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

What actually did I have wrong? 

You didn't take a big steaming shit on MP.  Defending him in any fashion appears to be frowned upon.

[ToT-147]

And also they would be cutting up a fragment of song, i.e. the beginning of TRoAE..

The very few first seconds of This Dying Soul are cut anyway to allow Glass Prison to flow seamlessly into it. Do it yourself if you have minimal editing skills, or look for YouTube 'cause I'm sure there must be a video of it - the "real" intro of Root is just meant to flow directly from the last note of This Dying Soul, once you hear them back to back you realize it was meant to be.

I like to think I have.. In fact, I just made you guys think that it happened something that really never happened! .. They didn't do that transition on the cruise (as neither they are doing it now), as you can check here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwgK_TLx7ig

I also added the broken glass sound effect in between the TGP/TDS transition https://youtu.be/TrZT_EyxXGk?t=823, and some other little nuggets I felt free to include here and there..


About the TGP/TDS transition itself, yeah, they are kinda cutting the start of TDS, or the ending of TGP, depending on how you see it, because is the very same arrangement anyway..

Ok, you definitively have more than minimal skills 

Hahaa, thanks!..

[Elite]

Sorry for not replying to all the bullshitdiscussion of the past few pages. I just came home from seeing the Shattered Fortress a second time. First time was Barcelona at the Be Prog! My Friend festival, this one was Tilburg, at the oft-played 013.

I liked tonight's show far better than the first, although it also reinforced some not-so-positive thoughts I had abot this whole thing as well. I enjoyed it though, and had fun, and that's the most important part. I might type out a more detailed post when I'm not on my phone.

Oh, for the record, there were about 6 video cameras filming, both on and off-stage.

[FOXAN03]

Its hard to pick a highlight from the show but since Finally Free is my 2nd favourite DT song will probably go with that but Home and Dance are close.

[Adami]

Oh, for the record, there were about 6 video cameras filming, both on and off-stage.

I am both excited and confused, like watching a 90's Johnny Depp movie.

Didn't MP state there would be no official release? I hope to Xenu that I imagined that one cause this would be an immediate buy for me.

[Madman Shepherd]

From the videos I have seen the whole 12SS was awesome minus Repentance which Mike should just let Ross sing. 

Was not impressed with the keytar solo or Eric Gillette singing part of the Mirror. 

Was actually kind of surprised that Ross didn't sound so hot at the end of Finally Free.  Maybe the high vocals were a bit much after a full show or maybe his voice just isn't cut out for that type of melody.

[bosk1]

Sorry for not replying to all the bullshitdiscussion of the past few pages. I just came home from seeing the Shattered Fortress a second time. First time was Barcelona at the Be Prog! My Friend festival, this one was Tilburg, at the oft-played 013.

I liked tonight's show far better than the first, although it also reinforced some not-so-positive thoughts I had abot this whole thing as well. I enjoyed it though, and had fun, and that's the most important part. I might type out a more detailed post when I'm not on my phone.

Oh, for the record, there were about 6 video cameras filming, both on and off-stage.

What was better about it?  The longer set?  Or was it just a better performance?  As to the latter, that's the problem with very limited tours--because the string of dates is so short, bands sometimes can't justify extended pre-tour rehearsal time and don't have as many dates on the road to gel and become a tight unit.  Not sure if that is the case here or not, but they sounded pretty tight on the first night, from what I heard.