What are your thoughts on DT12?

[davidolson22]

If the production was SFAM quality, I would like this album. Could someone enlighten me as to why they keep doing the multiple James voice thing?

Because sometimes James voice can be a little... harsh... when unprocessed or doubled.

[MirzekDT]

After many many listens of the album, I still can barely enjoy or appreciate MM's drumming just because of how terrible it sounds to me. If you sat down at a drum set and began to play, and the drums made the sounds that you hear on the album, you'd think something was terribly wrong with it. It just sounds so fake, like he's playing an electronic drum set. The snare is wonky and unfocused, the bass drum sounds like a low tom, and the cymbals just sound awful. It's such a shame because his drumming is fantastic, and he does a lot of cool things. It just still amazes me that everyone in the band was okay with this drum sound.

This isn't something I really thought about, but I do feel like the drums are certainly not pushed out there.  I know MP could be a little too pushy with the drum sound, but I remember giving ADTOE a bit of a pass on the drum department.  I knew he was flying, but I also knew he didn't have a lot of input and it may have been somewhat subdued on the album itself.  I know MM had a lot of input in DT12, and you can tell he's flying, but I'd be hard pressed to tell you one drum track.  I know he's awesome, but it's not like anything grabs me.  Whereas something like 6:00, that sort of opening sticks with you.  (I say this as someone who puts MM over MP.)

So Enigma Machine two drum solo spots, Illumination Theory part with JM after orchestral section and Surredner To Reason MM, JM, JP solo spot doesn't grab and stick with you from drumming viewpoint at all? They are still burnt in my mind as very memorable and awesome and I'm sure there are even more but these three or four immediately came to my mind.

[The Stray Seed]

Agree with the above =]

[chrisbDTM]

I don't think the part in illumination theory is particularly flashy, or a part to showcase what mangini did on the album

[?]

For some reason I find MM's drumming more interesting on ADTOE than the new album.

*puts flameshield on*

[Tis BOOLsheet]

For some reason I find MM's drumming more interesting on ADTOE than the new album.

*puts flameshield on*

No need for flameshield. I know some people with intelligent views on drumming who agree with you. I think people sorta dismissed ADToE's drumming without taking the to really listen to it in comparison to MM's other work. I think it's pretty close between ADToE and DT12 drumming.

[jakepriest]

For some reason I find MM's drumming more interesting on ADTOE than the new album.

*puts flameshield on*

I totally agree. It seems that most of the fills on DT are just fast and not very technical, unlike those on ADToE.

[MonagFam]

So Enigma Machine two drum solo spots, Illumination Theory part with JM after orchestral section and Surredner To Reason MM, JM, JP solo spot doesn't grab and stick with you from drumming viewpoint at all? They are still burnt in my mind as very memorable and awesome and I'm sure there are even more but these three or four immediately came to my mind.

It's not that I don't like his drumming.  I can tell he's flying, but I was trying to determine if the mix (something I hadn't considered) couldn't attribute to me not getting more out of the drumming.

[1neeto]

MM'x drumming is great on DT 12. The over compression ruins the mix.

[Mat JB]

I listened to the album in full a couple of times yesterday, and wow, it's great. So much melodic integrity. I've been waiting for Dream Theater to release an album this good since I became a fan.

Less compression would be nice, of course, but it doesn't negatively effect my enjoyment of the music - it's not Death Magnetic or anything.

[gentaishinigami]

For some reason I find MM's drumming more interesting on ADTOE than the new album.

*puts flameshield on*

So you're saying JP is a better drummer than MM?

 

[jakepriest]

For some reason I find MM's drumming more interesting on ADTOE than the new album.

*puts flameshield on*

So you're saying JP is a better drummer than MM?

 

They wrote the parts together.

[gentaishinigami]

For some reason I find MM's drumming more interesting on ADTOE than the new album.

*puts flameshield on*

So you're saying JP is a better drummer than MM?

 

They wrote the parts together.

Yeah, I know, I was trying to make a joke

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

son



this place is serious business

[?]

For some reason I find MM's drumming more interesting on ADTOE than the new album.

*puts flameshield on*

So you're saying JP is a better drummer than MM?

 

Of course he is - just watch Nightmare Cinema's version of Perfect Strangers!

[Tis BOOLsheet]

The album is way too short....

I lived on ADToE until a couple months before DT12 came out. I already feel burned out on this one.

[1neeto]

The album is way too short....

I lived on ADToE until a couple months before DT12 came out. I already feel burned out on this one.

"way too short" seems like quite the stretch considering that the album is an hour and eight minutes long. You would have hated the 70's. 

[Nearmyth]

The album is way too short....

I lived on ADToE until a couple months before DT12 came out. I already feel burned out on this one.

"way too short" seems like quite the stretch considering that the album is an hour and eight minutes long. You would have hated the 70's. 

But back then, the time between albums was a lot shorter depending on the band.

[PROGdrummer]

The album is way too short....

I lived on ADToE until a couple months before DT12 came out. I already feel burned out on this one.

"way too short" seems like quite the stretch considering that the album is an hour and eight minutes long. You would have hated the 70's. 

But back then, the time between albums was a lot shorter depending on the band.

true that. Most bands back then put out 120 minutes worth of music in a 2-3 year period, sometimes more

[Laughingplace56]

For some reason I find MM's drumming more interesting on ADTOE than the new album.

*puts flameshield on*

No need for flameshield. I know some people with intelligent views on drumming who agree with you. I think people sorta dismissed ADToE's drumming without taking the to really listen to it in comparison to MM's other work. I think it's pretty close between ADToE and DT12 drumming.

I'm a drummer and have played every song on either album as much as twice (only Along For The Ride. Great drumming, don't find it much fun to play.) to as many as 100+ times (Outcry and Bridges in the Sky). In my opinion (coming from a 17 year old who's been drumming for 2 1/2 years mind you, not a professional), the drumming on DT12 is very technical at a lot of parts, but so is ADToE. TEI has some great drum work. The Looking Glass flows very nicely and the improv behind JP's solo is very tasteful. Enigma Machine isn't the most technical song but the drumming is great and the mini solo towards the end is very nice. Surrender To Reason has excellent drumming the whole way through and the way he plays the ride and bass during the main riff is fairly technical. The solo section with the MM JMX groove in the back on that song is probably my favorite section of the album. It's really grooving and accents the solo very well. IT has amazing drumming throughout the whole thing. Highlights include the groove at the beginning of "Surrender, Trust, and Passion", the cool fill at the end of the intro, the monster fill during "Surrender, Trust, and Passion".

On ADToE, while certain songs have their technical parts (BITS has some nice drumwork, LNF bass patterns, Outcry instrumental), DT12's drumming feels more free and open than ADToE, like he had more freedom and more input (which MM did), despite the less than ideal mix (which i don't mind too much, but it's not great).

As far as the album as a whole goes, i love it. It's probably my fourth favorite, after SDOIT, SFAM and Awake. One complaint i have though is in the final part of IT, LaBrie doesn't sound very good. The rest of the album he sounds great, but on this one part he doesn't match the rest of the album for some reason. 

[LTE3]

Good album, a grower.

Opposite for me, it was a shower, and did not grow but faded from my cd player faster than any other release yet.

[Outcrier]

Good album, a grower.

Opposite for me, it was a shower, and did not grow but faded from my cd player faster than any other release yet.

I don't agree with me anymore 

[Nel]

My friend who hasn't listened to DT in years was over (he's actually the one who got me into the band), so I played the whole album while we played some video games. Besides The Enemy Inside, it was my second time hearing most of the songs since I listened to it on release day. The Looking Glass has grown on me a bit, but overall, the album's still really off-putting.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I played the hell out of DT12 when it first came out and I found that with every listen it grew on me. There was a period where it sort of stagnated and I had some time away from it. Now that I come back to it, I feel like it's still a strong album overall. Something about it seems to be able to hold my interest throughout. Several moments have since become some of my all time favorite DT moments.

[PROGdrummer]

Thought it was incredible and a top 5 album upon my first listens, then I got bored of it and havent listened to much of it since (except for The Enemy Inside, which is awesome). I feel like there's not enough to this record.

I'll try to get back into it soon. Definitely better than ADTOE and SC for me, not quite as good as BC&SL.

[erwinrafael]

For some reason I find MM's drumming more interesting on ADTOE than the new album.

*puts flameshield on*

I totally agree. It seems that most of the fills on DT are just fast and not very technical, unlike those on ADToE.

LOLOLOL. Tell me which fill is just fast and does not complement the other instruments in a technical way.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Seriously?

[bosk1]

The more I listen to DT12 the more I appreciate every song. It's clear they made an effort to 'trim the fat' on these songs rather than have the obligatory 4-5 minutes of just 'DT wankery' in their songs. Not that I didn't/don't like some DT wankery but the awesome thing about DT12 to me is that they just give us concise, well arranged songs with no BS and incredible musicianship.

The lyrics are inspiring....the melodies are beautiful and they all sound great! I love MM's playing because he plays these technical fills/beats....I'm not a drummer so I don't know the terminology.....but he plays his parts so effortlessly that you can fail to realize just how difficult it is what he's doing and how awesome it is as well.

I'm sold....and a firm believer that DT12 is an album that Dream Theater can point to and say...."That's Us"

Good post.  This is close to how I feel.  Three and a half months or so later (wow, hard to believe it's been that long already), I still stand by my original comments when the album came out.  Overall, the album is still spectacularly good, and is easily my album of the year.  There are still parts that I definitely do not connect with that I thought might grow on me more with the passage of time.  For example, I still think The Enemy Inside is just "good."  I like it, but definitely don't love it.  And the ambient/orchestral section in Illumination Theory still leaves me scratching my head as to why it is there and still feels like it takes away from the momentum of the song.  But that's okay.  I look at it kind of like this:

I can look at Pietà all day long and admire the technicality and beauty of it.  But at the end of the day, while I enjoy it and recognize it as a masterpiece, I would MUCH rather look at the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel any time, no contest.  It doesn't lessen my appreciation for Michelangelo's body of work as a whole.  And it doesn't mean Pietà is somehow a failure.  I just don't like it nearly as much.  Or, much like Illumination Theory, I can marvel at Moses for the tomb of Pope Julius II...until I get to those horns and get distracted scratching my head about why in the world they are there and how Michelangelo could have thought that including them somehow improved the piece as a whole instead of providing a huge distraction.  But at the end of the day, it's still an amazing sculpture, and I can get a lot of enjoyment from it, even if the horns feel like they don't fit and ultimately end up being distracting to me.  And I can appreciate it as being something that, while it may not rank up near the top of his work as far as I'm concerned, it is vastly superior to the vast majority of what other artists have put out. 

So, yeah, there you have it.

[wolfking]

I still listen to this album about 2-3 times a week, for me, that's saying something.  Incredible album and DT have done what I never thought they would do.

[TheGreatPretender]

I still listen to this album about 2-3 times a week, for me, that's saying something.  Incredible album and DT have done what I never thought they would do.

Let's hope it's not the last time.

[adastra]

After almost two months of not listening to DT12  I decided to give it a try!

Believe me, I'd love to like this album , but I don't know....  :<

[hefdaddy42]

Overall, I think the album is incredible.  There are a few spots that don't work for me (The Looking Glass does absolutely nothing for me, definitely 9th out of 9 for me), but overall I love the scope and ambition of the album, and I think that for the most part it was realized.  Can't wait to hear these songs in a live environment.

[jjrock88]

I still listen to this album about 2-3 times a week, for me, that's saying something.  Incredible album and DT have done what I never thought they would do.

I agree.  This is a very addicting album and I'm also looking forward to hearing this material live.

[JayOctavarium]

Listened to it.. most of it.. again today. Still really don't like it.

[Lucidity]

Even though I don't love the direction DT are going with their music and style, I can at least say that these songs are mostly unlike what DT has done before. That being said, I think the different sound is a lot more poppy and structured, which are definitely not the elements I listen to DT for. But as long as it's making them happy as writers then I suppose I should support their decisions; it'll be interesting to see where they go with the next album.