Dream Theater self titled album discussion - [SPOILER FREE DISCUSSION ONLY]

[wasteland]

Judging on their current modus operandi I won't be surprised if they released the single with just one or two days notice. It's basically what they have been doing since the drummer doc thing, whenever they actually released sensitive information.

[Dark Castle]

I wouldn't be surprised if they waited until early August or even Mid August, a month or so out seems to be the period that bands release singles, at least from what I've noticed.

[Lucien]

Judging on their current modus operandi I won't be surprised if they released the single with just one or two days notice. It's basically what they have been doing since the drummer doc thing, whenever they actually released sensitive information.

I agree with this.

[Setebos]

Yeah I think it can't be too long until we hear some material from the new album. We're 9 weeks away from release, 9 songs on the album, so maybe we'll get some weekly song snippets (like with ADTOE) starting... soon.
Single maybe parallel with start of pre-orders?

[LBC.]

Soon = 9/24.

[theseoafs]

Yeah I think it can't be too long until we hear some material from the new album. We're 9 weeks away from release, 9 songs on the album, so maybe we'll get some weekly song snippets (like with ADTOE) starting... soon.

What song snippets did the band do for ADTOE?

"Centerpiece" does not literally mean "in the middle".

Then it shouldn't be called a centerpiece, especially when coupled with a statement like 'in the sea' of shorter songs. It's misleading.   

Well that's a problem you should take up with whoever is in charge of the English language.

 

Dammit I love you.

omg

[noxon]

They posted 1 minute cuts from each song every week leading up to the album. You can find them on youtube by search for dream theater snippet. This was after they released the first single though, which was "on the back of angels". I do not know whether they'll do the same thing this time around, what I do know is that the press and other people now has the album and more details are probably coming out through different channels similarly to the spanish(?) forum post...

[bosk1]

"Centerpiece" does not literally mean "in the middle".

Then it shouldn't be called a centerpiece, especially when coupled with a statement like 'in the sea' of shorter songs. It's misleading.   

Well that's a problem you should take up with whoever is in charge of the English language.

 

Dammit I love you.

Not enough info DT.  kingshmeland SMASH!!!

(Blob or bosk,  I need a green emote of me for this!)

Just use this: 

[Luis W]

Helloooo children...

I'm anxious about the new album, but in a negative way. I think that sets me aside from the majority. Don't get me wrong, I'm really looking forward to the album, I want it to be their best, but the feeling it won't meet my expectations is getting bigger as the release date aproaches.

Why do I feel that? First, as appears to be commom sense, self titled albums are big "it's what/who we are" statements. It makes even more sense being the first album "fully loaded" with Mangini, besides having so many self-referent titles about dreams and... theaters. That said, one should expect (at least I do) such an album to crank it up the "top 3 albums" of a large number of fans, as well as having 1 - 2 songs in the top 10 list. But for me, the line is drawn on the real possibility of that happening.

DT is well known for making different sounding albums and bringing new things with each new work. But it looks like that cicle ended briefly with Clouds and Chaos, and I might add ADTOE, despite being miles better then both before, It's still far away from common top-tiers like Words, Scenes or 6 degrees. I really enjoyed ADTOE and it met my expectations AT THE TIME, but I just don't listen to it anymore than other low tier albums. I just find myself listening to 10 year + songs from their catalog, with one or other exceptions...

I might also add that a 4 album "stagnation" would mean, at least for me, a huge disappointment and a shift in the way I relate to the band's music and new releases, as it holds a special place for broadening my musical spectrum, introducing me to prog, making me search new bands and styles and helping me be a better musician. But today, other bands - some in the same style - get much more attention and time from me. 

After 2005, they seem a bit lost, maybe not "lost", but too much conservative, "playing safe". I would even say "stale", with all consequences and memories implied by using that word in "THE" DT forum. To wrap it up, I just really hope what they set in 2011 is a real change in direction, I just had this feeling maybe ADTOE = WDADU, implying a new beggining and XII=IAW, a new level of Prog Awesomeness... But the more I think about it, the more It seems that's not gonna happen.

Peace and Prog

LW

[FlyingBIZKIT]

Welcome!

I try not to set my expectations too high. I imagine DT12 will be a mid tier album, better than everything after SDOIT, WDADU, and FII. However, not as good as the remainders.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Helloooo children...

I'm anxious about the new album, but in a negative way. I think that sets me aside from the majority. Don't get me wrong, I'm really looking forward to the album, I want it to be their best, but the feeling it won't meet my expectations is getting bigger as the release date aproaches.

Why do I feel that? First, as appears to be commom sense, self titled albums are big "it's what/who we are" statements. It makes even more sense being the first album "fully loaded" with Mangini, besides having so many self-referent titles about dreams and... theaters. That said, one should expect (at least I do) such an album to crank it up the "top 3 albums" of a large number of fans, as well as having 1 - 2 songs in the top 10 list. But for me, the line is drawn on the real possibility of that happening.

DT is well known for making different sounding albums and bringing new things with each new work. But it looks like that cicle ended briefly with Clouds and Chaos, and I might add ADTOE, despite being miles better then both before, It's still far away from common top-tiers like Words, Scenes or 6 degrees. I really enjoyed ADTOE and it met my expectations AT THE TIME, but I just don't listen to it anymore than other low tier albums. I just find myself listening to 10 year + songs from their catalog, with one or other exceptions...

I might also add that a 4 album "stagnation" would mean, at least for me, a huge disappointment and a shift in the way I relate to the band's music and new releases, as it holds a special place for broadening my musical spectrum, introducing me to prog, making me search new bands and styles and helping me be a better musician. But today, other bands - some in the same style - get much more attention and time from me. 

After 2005, they seem a bit lost, maybe not "lost", but too much conservative, "playing safe". I would even say "stale", with all consequences and memories implied by using that word in "THE" DT forum. To wrap it up, I just really hope what they set in 2011 is a real change in direction, I just had this feeling maybe ADTOE = WDADU, implying a new beggining and XII=IAW, a new level of Prog Awesomeness... But the more I think about it, the more It seems that's not gonna happen.

Peace and Prog

LW

Well, I really enjoy the band's recent output, with Black Clouds And Silver Linings being my third favorite DT album. So i can't really say I agree with you.

Also, welcome to the forum.

edit: blasted italics. I should always preview my posts first...

[bosk1]

First, as appears to be commom sense, self titled albums are big "it's what/who we are" statements. ... That said, one should expect (at least I do) such an album to crank it up the "top 3 albums" of a large number of fans, as well as having 1 - 2 songs in the top 10 list.

I've heard this argument before, but frankly, I don't understand it, and nobody has been able to provide a satisfying explanation for why they think a self-titled album is supposedly automatically supposed to be a statement that carries with it certain expectations.  I think it's terribly misguided to have expectations about how good an album supposedly is because of an album title.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

This is why bands shouldn't release self-titled albums. It would spare many people confusion.

[emtee]

I don't think there is any doubt, judging by what the band has said so far about the title and why they chose it, that expectations
should be very high. They are saying this album is the epitome of who we are as band. It represents what we feel is our best.

Now...having said that I will not enable their statements to affect my expectations. Like I said before I will do what I have always
done with a new DT album. I'll be alone and in a very focused state when I hear it and I will see how the music connects with me.

[theseoafs]

First, as appears to be commom sense, self titled albums are big "it's what/who we are" statements. ... That said, one should expect (at least I do) such an album to crank it up the "top 3 albums" of a large number of fans, as well as having 1 - 2 songs in the top 10 list.

I've heard this argument before, but frankly, I don't understand it, and nobody has been able to provide a satisfying explanation for why they think a self-titled album is supposedly automatically supposed to be a statement that carries with it certain expectations.  I think it's terribly misguided to have expectations about how good an album supposedly is because of an album title.

Bands release self-titled albums all the time.  It happens.  Dream Theater might be making a statement of identity, but if they are, that's a Dream Theater thing, and not a self-titled album thing.  Are Zeppelin's first 3 albums big "this is who we are" statements?  What about the majority of Chicago's albums? 

DT12 will be a probably be a pretty normal DT album.  The title probably won't mean that much in the long run.  Don't go into it with any expectations about how good the title means it's supposed to be and you'll be happier.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I don't think there is any doubt, judging by what the band has said so far about the title and why they chose it, that expectations
should be very high. They are saying this album is the epitome of who we are as band. It represents what we feel is our best.

Yeah, but they say that about every album.

[mike099]

I have decided to not listen to the single.  Instead it will be fun to come here and read all of the comments.  I will be happy with the release as long there is a big improvement with the drums.

[Luis W]

I've heard this argument before, but frankly, I don't understand it, and nobody has been able to provide a satisfying explanation for why they think a self-titled album is supposedly automatically supposed to be a statement that carries with it certain expectations.  I think it's terribly misguided to have expectations about how good an album supposedly is because of an album title.

I surely understand that. Self - titled albums aren't predestined to be the best, but the specific juncture in the band's story backs that up - Mangini consolidation, the song titles... At least for me.

But my strong point's still the possible 4 mid/low album run. Every 3 albums or so we have a milestone

Welcome!

I try not to set my expectations too high. I imagine DT12 will be a mid tier album, better than everything after SDOIT, WDADU, and FII. However, not as good as the remainders.

I don't try it either. But the sequence of Clouds, Chaos and ADTOE, it kinds of frighten me

[bosk1]

First, as appears to be commom sense, self titled albums are big "it's what/who we are" statements. ... That said, one should expect (at least I do) such an album to crank it up the "top 3 albums" of a large number of fans, as well as having 1 - 2 songs in the top 10 list.

I've heard this argument before, but frankly, I don't understand it, and nobody has been able to provide a satisfying explanation for why they think a self-titled album is supposedly automatically supposed to be a statement that carries with it certain expectations.  I think it's terribly misguided to have expectations about how good an album supposedly is because of an album title.

Bands release self-titled albums all the time.  It happens.  Dream Theater might be making a statement of identity, but if they are, that's a Dream Theater thing, and not a self-titled album thing.  Are Zeppelin's first 3 albums big "this is who we are" statements?  What about the majority of Chicago's albums? 

DT12 will be a probably be a pretty normal DT album.  The title probably won't mean that much in the long run.  Don't go into it with any expectations about how good the title means it's supposed to be and you'll be happier.

I don't think there is any doubt, judging by what the band has said so far about the title and why they chose it, that expectations
should be very high. They are saying this album is the epitome of who we are as band. It represents what we feel is our best.

Yeah, but they say that about every album.

The above two posts nailed it.  They have said nothing about self-titling the album somehow equating to this album being the end-all-be-all of albums.  Nothing whatsoever.  People who want to read that into what the band has said are projecting their own expectations rather than listening to what the band has actually said.

[johncal]

I guess how good it will be will depend on:

a) They make an album that has all of the DT elements like they said and they try to please the DT fans by doing so.
b) They do whatever the hell they want and it just happens to sound like DT because that's who they are.

I hope for "b". I think that would be a better product. ADTOE is an excellent album, and my favorite DT album by far, but maybe they played it a little bit safe and just wanted to show their fans that they would still be the same group we all love even without Portnoy. I also would not blame them one bit for doing this...... it's an intelligent move. However I think that now they are comfortable that the vast majority of fans still love them, or even love them more with Mangini, they will step out with option "b".

Of course if they actually do step out with something different people will bitch that they didn't stay the same.

[bosk1]

I don't try it either. But the sequence of Clouds, Chaos and ADTOE, it kinds of frighten me

To each his own.  I know for me, after Systematic Chaos, Black Clouds, and ADTOE, I'm saying "Wow, that's 10 homeruns in a row.  Let's see if they have 11 in them."

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I don't try it either. But the sequence of Clouds, Chaos and ADTOE, it kinds of frighten me

To each his own.  I know for me, after Systematic Chaos, Black Clouds, and ADTOE, I'm saying "Wow, that's 10 homeruns in a row.  Let's see if they have 11 in them."

I agree with this.

edit: But WDADU is awesome, too.

[dparrott]

Just watched the #3 vid again, some cute girls in the string section.....

[RMGadelha]

Just watched the #3 vid again, some cute girls in the string section.....

They were all fearing the Beartrucci.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

The discussions in this thread are awful.

No one is holding a gun to your head to come post here...

No, not at all! But you see, I've been around here since the DT.net Train of Thought/Octavarium forum days and believe me; I've sticked around because this place has introduced me to great music and some of the discussions and topics here are either very intelligent or very funny. But just to throw in, what I mean by some of the discussions in this thread being awful is that nowadays, it appears the only thing we do is harass RoadRunner in facebook or twitter to ask them for information because people don't know how to wait for anything; the "lack of info" and "this shit's gonna be released *soon*" has created a bunch of speculations and discussions that, in my very humble opinion, are silly and it seems like some people are coming in here to pump their post counts but hey, you're right. Maybe I worded my post wrong, and for that I'm sorry.

Take me for this, there hasn't been a DT album release waiting period as chaotic as this one, and I seem to understand why. Self-titled album/Mangini composing/Instrumental/Band happier than ever/More people join the forum/etc. But I do think some of the behavior since we were all impatient with the Luna Park DVD waiting period is kind of extreme and uncalled for. Remember the posts by Over the Edge Productions? Trying to calm down impatient fans for their constant "WHY NO NEWS?!" screams, even though it wasn't their fault? That's what I mean, that is embarassing (at least in my eyes).

Thanks to them for the facts, by the way!

[Flacracker]

That guy said DT12 is better than ADToE so: DT12 > ADTOE > ToT > FII > 8VM > BC&SL > SC > WDaDU. If so I am very happy.

[abydos]

idk what you're talking about, man. FII > all the ones you listed. And remember that they've said that about SC, our best album we've done! also the same said for FII (which they kind of dislike or at least mp). Of course they'll say it's their best

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

idk what you're talking about, man. FII > all the ones you listed. And remember that they've said that about SC, our best album we've done! also the same said for FII (which they kind of dislike or at least mp). Of course they'll say it's their best

Funny thing how Mike Portnoy was the one that said FII was their best work to date back then and was the one that ended up disliking the album (the others don't seem to have a problem with it, and I personally think it's an amazing record).

[Polis]

HOW ARE THERE ALREADY RATINGS IN THE PROGARCHIVES.COM PAGE FOR DREAM THEATER DREAM THEATER?? HOWWww

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Guys that received promo copies. That and liars.

[Lucien]

Anyone who's registered on that site can click 5 stars

[dparrott]

Anyone who's registered on that site can click 5 stars

Heh...if they can fake reviews, so can we!  Let's see how close the positive reviews are to the final album!

[GasparXR]

The discussions in this thread are awful.

No one is holding a gun to your head to come post here...

No, not at all! But you see, I've been around here since the DT.net Train of Thought/Octavarium forum days and believe me; I've sticked around because this place has introduced me to great music and some of the discussions and topics here are either very intelligent or very funny. But just to throw in, what I mean by some of the discussions in this thread being awful is that nowadays, it appears the only thing we do is harass RoadRunner in facebook or twitter to ask them for information because people don't know how to wait for anything; the "lack of info" and "this shit's gonna be released *soon*" has created a bunch of speculations and discussions that, in my very humble opinion, are silly and it seems like some people are coming in here to pump their post counts but hey, you're right. Maybe I worded my post wrong, and for that I'm sorry.

Take me for this, there hasn't been a DT album release waiting period as chaotic as this one, and I seem to understand why. Self-titled album/Mangini composing/Instrumental/Band happier than ever/More people join the forum/etc. But I do think some of the behavior since we were all impatient with the Luna Park DVD waiting period is kind of extreme and uncalled for. Remember the posts by Over the Edge Productions? Trying to calm down impatient fans for their constant "WHY NO NEWS?!" screams, even though it wasn't their fault? That's what I mean, that is embarassing (at least in my eyes).

Thanks to them for the facts, by the way!

I agree with this post.

Also, in response to the part I bolded, those two things aren't mutually exclusive you know.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Just saw episode 3. Oh man, I am pumped for this album!

[abydos]

idk what you're talking about, man. FII > all the ones you listed. And remember that they've said that about SC, our best album we've done! also the same said for FII (which they kind of dislike or at least mp). Of course they'll say it's their best

Funny thing how Mike Portnoy was the one that said FII was their best work to date back then and was the one that ended up disliking the album (the others don't seem to have a problem with it, and I personally think it's an amazing record).

Indeed. But maybe that was before he knew what was going to happen to the album. Personally? I like it the way it turned out better and it's one of my favourite DT albums. Probably above SFAM and on par with SDOIT.