Author Topic: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015  (Read 36526 times)

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Offline ehra

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #210 on: November 01, 2012, 10:48:55 AM »
This, Dark Castle. I was trying to make that point with my post. Yeah, there's tons of talk about not wanting to kill each other, but it's just talk. As soon as those sabers go up, you know it's a death match. Kenobi may say some nice things about making things work at the end, but that doesn't negate the fact that he already came very close to cleaving Skywalker's skull in two.

And even if someone argued that Kenobi had to fight for reals or else Anakin would have murdered his ass, it also wouldn't explain the aftermath of the fight. Anakin wasn't a threat to anyone anymore, if Kenobi wanted to have a rational discussion with someone who wasn't actively trying to kill him then he could have carried Anakin away from the hell planet, kept his horribly mutilated body from dying, then tried talking to him when he was better. Instead he just walks away, leaving Anakin to die for all he knows. I guess he tried his best; if someone won't listen to reason when they're trying to murder you out of rage then, really, when will they?

edit:

I just remembered a movie podcast I watched where someone mentioned that, in an interview, Quentin Tarantino was asked why he decided to kill Hitler in Inglourious Basterds and he said that the characters didn't know that Hitler wasn't supposed to die at that point in time. It's kind of a non-answer, but it's also kind of clever. The characters did what they did because that's what made sense for them to do, not because they had to abide by what history said happened. And, now that I think about it, I think that's part of the problem with the last fight's aftermath that I mentioned above. Kenobi didn't abandon Anakin because it made sense for him to do so, it's because the Emperor or whoever finding him is a better way to setup Anakin for Episode 4.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 11:00:07 AM by ehra »

Offline RuRoRul

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #211 on: November 01, 2012, 10:51:58 AM »
To be honest, it's easier to enjoy some of the prequels fights like the Darth Maul one than it is to enjoy Darth Vader vs. Obi Wan in the original. Sure, the Darth Maul fight is (mostly) all spectacle, but it at least succeeds at being a spectacle. The fight in Episode IV succeeds in being a good confrontation from a story point of view, but it is a little difficult to take it seriously now because of how bad the physical fight actually is. Sure, it was limited by the actors and the technology of the time - but that's just an explains why it doesn't look great, it doesn't negate it.

The best lightsaber fight in the series is probably Return Of The Jedi. It's got the perfect balance between being a great confrontation from a story point of view and both looking good and feeling real. Anakin vs. Obi Wan probably is the fight in the prequels that is the best confrontation from a story point of view, but it ends up just getting lost in the spectacle aspect. Sure it seems epic and looks cool, but it doesn't succeed at being as good a confrontation in the story as the ones from the original series because it focuses a bit too much on the "epicness and coolness" factor.

You need a good balance between Obi Wan Kenobi spinning slowly on the spot in A New Hope, and Obi Wan and Anakin spinning their lightsabers around really fast for a full second for no apparent reason.

On another note, glad (and not surprised) to see it's going to be an original film, not any EU stuff. Fanfiction stories are ones that generally wouldn't translate well to the big screen, and hearing about the storyline of the EU stuff like the Thrawn Trilogy I find it difficult to comprehend how anyone could actually think they would really use that as a basis for new films, regardless of whether you think it's a good book or not.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #212 on: November 01, 2012, 10:57:53 AM »
Something like that.  Am I forgetting any?

Yup.  Windu et al. v. Sidius.  Not sure where I'd rank it, but somewhere pretty low for sure.  It was choreographed incredibly poorly, and the jedi with Windu were taken out far too easily.  Yeah, I get that Sidius is supposed to be JUST THAT POWERFUL.  But the way it was choreographed, he didn't take them out quickly because he was such a powerful, masterful sith lord.  He took them out quickly because the fights were choreographed to make it look like this was the first time these supposed jedi masters had ever wielded lightsabers in their entire lives.
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Offline snapple

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #213 on: November 01, 2012, 10:59:10 AM »
bawsk, there is a video on YT where they discuss the troubles of choreographing that scene. I can't link it (work), but if you search the Emperor's actor's name in YT, I'm sure you'll find it.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #214 on: November 01, 2012, 11:06:19 AM »
By the way, Anakin's child-killing has always struck me as the most despicable part of the prequel trilogy. It does not make sense on any level, and ruins the entire series. If, as Lucas made-up while justifying writing the prequels, the entire series is about the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker, child-killing puts Anakin in a morally reprehensible category cut-off from redemption; all for the sake of making it seem believable that Kenobi would want to kill him.

I get that Vader and the Empire have the Jedi Order enslaved and eliminated. That makes sense. Did they need to show that in some form? Probably. They could have shown Anakin tricking the younglings into being rounded-up and sent to some uncertain dismal fate. They could have made it happen later, by showing the new Empire enacting an anti-Jedi policy. They could have not shown Jedi children at all-- aren't they supposed to be really, really rare anyway?-- and just proceeded with slaughtering the adult Jedi, which would have done the trick. Did they need to show Anakin going into the school and killing every single Jedi "youngling" personally? Isn't this supposed to be a kid's movie? Wasn't that the excuse for Jar Jar Binks? What happened between then and Episode III? By the way, "youngling" is a pretty deplorable way of masking that child-killing is the content of the movie.

Anyway, this "youngling" slaughter creates a number of problems. It tricks the audience, as well as Kenobi, into adopting special moral dispensation for supporting the immediate killing of Anakin, over a bombastic lava-put fight. Lucas knows drama! It disqualifies Anakin Skywalker as a redeemable character, calling into question the so-called point of the entire series. It disqualifies Star Wars as an all-ages and, maybe more importantly, children's series. When I grew up watching the original trilogy, I looked up to heroes and moral paragons like Han Solo and Luke Skywalker who, despite their imperfections, are good role models. Meanwhile, Anakin Skywalker was marketed to children as the "hero" and relatable character from the very beginning. I shudder to think what it's like for kids growing up watching the prequels, looking up to Anakin as a role model and identifiable character despite his various unjustified slaughters in Episodes II and III. Adults understand Anakin's "violence is the answer" philosophy is not to be emulated; but do young kids? Anakin's entire descent into darkness was terrible, in my opinion. It was bad cinema, and it was wrong, morally, to disguise that type of movie as a kid's film. The prequel trilogy needed to be a much darker film, or a much lighter film overall. I guess it's money that rules Lucas' world, though!


 

Offline 5

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #215 on: November 01, 2012, 11:07:02 AM »
I sure hope they put Kyle Katarn in there.
 

Offline Dark Castle

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #216 on: November 01, 2012, 11:09:47 AM »
I actually hate that movies never show children dying, sounds sadistic, but it's not because I enjoy it.  It's because kids do die, and every time they're the sole survivor in horror movies I just laugh.

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #217 on: November 01, 2012, 11:11:28 AM »
I actually hate that movies never show children dying, sounds sadistic, but it's not because I enjoy it.  It's because kids do die, and every time they're the sole survivor in horror movies I just laugh.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #218 on: November 01, 2012, 11:12:53 AM »
To be honest, it's easier to enjoy some of the prequels fights like the Darth Maul one than it is to enjoy Darth Vader vs. Obi Wan in the original. Sure, the Darth Maul fight is (mostly) all spectacle, but it at least succeeds at being a spectacle.

I agree. It's cool. It doesn't need to be a highly emotional spectacle. There's no moral gravity about the situation. It's just Jinn and Kenobi trying their damnedest to take down a big monster-assassin, and the way the environment is set up like an inadvertent battle arena makes it a pretty cool scene. It works.

It's just a shame that the Maul fight became the model for every Jedi "duel" in the prequel trilogy.

I actually hate that movies never show children dying, sounds sadistic, but it's not because I enjoy it.  It's because kids do die, and every time they're the sole survivor in horror movies I just laugh.

Movies do show children dying. So do video games.

They're just not the type of movies and games that market models of the child-killer as a cool toy a 6 year old should get for Christmas.

What Lucas did with Star Wars in the child-killer and sand-person-killer scene was inexcusable. There are no two ways about it.

Offline Ryzee

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #219 on: November 01, 2012, 11:15:36 AM »
Something like that.  Am I forgetting any?

Yup.  Windu et al. v. Sidius.  Not sure where I'd rank it, but somewhere pretty low for sure.  It was choreographed incredibly poorly, and the jedi with Windu were taken out far too easily.  Yeah, I get that Sidius is supposed to be JUST THAT POWERFUL.  But the way it was choreographed, he didn't take them out quickly because he was such a powerful, masterful sith lord.  He took them out quickly because the fights were choreographed to make it look like this was the first time these supposed jedi masters had ever wielded lightsabers in their entire lives.

Oh yup.  Yeah it's lower tier for sure, but I'd put it upper-mid lower tier.  If only because there's that one shot where they have their sabers locked and Samuel L. is making the most bad ass face ever made by man.

Offline snapple

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #220 on: November 01, 2012, 11:17:10 AM »
the actor who played the emperor has never really had to do those kinds of scenes before. He did his best, and I applaud him for that. The actor is so brilliant that i actually believed the Emperor's character was evil.

Offline Dark Castle

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #221 on: November 01, 2012, 11:17:25 AM »
To be honest, it's easier to enjoy some of the prequels fights like the Darth Maul one than it is to enjoy Darth Vader vs. Obi Wan in the original. Sure, the Darth Maul fight is (mostly) all spectacle, but it at least succeeds at being a spectacle.

I agree. It's cool. It doesn't need to be a highly emotional spectacle. There's no moral gravity about the situation. It's just Jinn and Kenobi trying their damnedest to take down a big monster-assassin, and the way the environment is set up like an inadvertent battle arena makes it a pretty cool scene. It works.

It's just a shame that the Maul fight became the model for every Jedi "duel" in the prequel trilogy.

I actually hate that movies never show children dying, sounds sadistic, but it's not because I enjoy it.  It's because kids do die, and every time they're the sole survivor in horror movies I just laugh.

Movies do show children dying. So do video games.

They're just not the type of movies and games that market models of the child-killer as a cool toy a 6 year old should get for Christmas.

What Lucas did with Star Wars in the child-killer and sand-person-killer scene was inexcusable. There are no two ways about it.
What was so inexcusable?


Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #223 on: November 01, 2012, 11:35:23 AM »
I just remembered a movie podcast I watched where someone mentioned that, in an interview, Quentin Tarantino was asked why he decided to kill Hitler in Inglourious Basterds and he said that the characters didn't know that Hitler wasn't supposed to die at that point in time. It's kind of a non-answer, but it's also kind of clever. The characters did what they did because that's what made sense for them to do, not because they had to abide by what history said happened. And, now that I think about it, I think that's part of the problem with the last fight's aftermath that I mentioned above. Kenobi didn't abandon Anakin because it made sense for him to do so, it's because the Emperor or whoever finding him is a better way to setup Anakin for Episode 4.

Yup, another reason why I find the child-killing to be so pandering and inane. It didn't happen because it needed to. It happened because Anakin needed to be evil immediately, and Kenobi needed to be ready to leave him for dead. And history said all the Jedi needed to die. So, how better than to do that all in one fell swoop? A clever solution for having so much history stuffed into one film, but still a pretty terrible directing move.

A much better scenario, in my mind, would be to have simply shown the storm-troopers circling around the Jedi Academy, or else not brought children into it at all.

Offline Dream Team

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #224 on: November 01, 2012, 11:43:13 AM »
PT, I love your posts. You are spot-on about everything.

Offline Ħ

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #225 on: November 01, 2012, 11:45:41 AM »
Something like that.  Am I forgetting any?

Yup.  Windu et al. v. Sidius.  Not sure where I'd rank it, but somewhere pretty low for sure.  It was choreographed incredibly poorly, and the jedi with Windu were taken out far too easily.  Yeah, I get that Sidius is supposed to be JUST THAT POWERFUL.  But the way it was choreographed, he didn't take them out quickly because he was such a powerful, masterful sith lord.  He took them out quickly because the fights were choreographed to make it look like this was the first time these supposed jedi masters had ever wielded lightsabers in their entire lives.

Oh yup.  Yeah it's lower tier for sure, but I'd put it upper-mid lower tier.  If only because there's that one shot where they have their sabers locked and Samuel L. is making the most bad ass face ever made by man.
I think you forgot the Grievous fight too.

Here's how I'd rank them:

The Good:
Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan vs Maul (TPM)
Anakin vs Obi-Wan (ROTS)
Anakin & Obi-Wan vs Dooku (ROTS)
Qui-Gon vs Maul (TPM)
Luke vs Vader (TESB)
Luke vs Vader (ROTJ)

The Bad:
Mace Windu vs Palpatine (ROTS)
Anakin & Obi-Wan vs Dooku (AOTC)
Obi-Wan vs Grievous (ROTS)

The Ugly:
Yoda vs Palpatine (ROTS)
Yoda vs Dooku (AOTC)
Obi-Wan vs Vader (ANH)

PC, I do agree that the child-killing thing was a mistake. Not because it's an inherently bad plot device, but because Anakin, in his character development up to that point, realistically wouldn't do that. When he executed Dooku and when he attacked Windu, those were heat-of-the-moment, impulsive decisions that a person in his position would realistically make. Same with the slaughter of the sand people, to an extent. The intentional killing of the younglings, though? Not so much.

Nonetheless, while that does detract from EP III as a whole, I don't think it makes the final fight bad. You say its early plateau disqualifies it from being a good fight, but I don't think so. What I see is that it starts off with both combatants full of energy and speed, and they wear each other down to the point where Kenobi scores the hit that he does. Rather than rise in intensity, it rises in desperation. The music, the deteriorating planet, and the way the combatants look all add to this effect. I recall hearing that they have a number of different outfits they went through, each looking more and more tarnished and worn. It's a good fight with each fighter clearly giving it their all.

And the flashiness? It's far from being some kind of "weakness." Everyone likes to hate on the spinning lightsaber scene, but I see it as serving as an emphasis for how equally matched the fighters are.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 12:24:35 PM by Ħ »
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Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #226 on: November 01, 2012, 12:11:49 PM »
Seriously! I had an over/under on H coming back on Oct. 31, took the under and he comes back on THAT day!
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #227 on: November 01, 2012, 12:27:06 PM »
Seriously! I had an over/under on H coming back on Oct. 31, took the under and he comes back on THAT day!
So you still lost. :P
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #228 on: November 01, 2012, 12:29:52 PM »
No one took the even, so everyone lost.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #229 on: November 01, 2012, 12:36:30 PM »
No one took the even, so everyone lost.
Well, not everyone. :)
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #230 on: November 01, 2012, 12:39:43 PM »
Brother H is back, I'd say everyone won.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #231 on: November 01, 2012, 12:46:53 PM »
Oh, Adami.  :heart
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #232 on: November 01, 2012, 01:00:07 PM »
The Good:
Anakin & Obi-Wan vs Dooku (ROTS)

I think I disagree with that. The fight itself isn't bad, and neither is Anakin executing Dooku. It makes sense. But, the way things play out is just lolsy. What happens, again? Kenobi just falls down, right? And then Anakin's ready to kill Dooku, and he goes into this second-guessing like "I shouldn't", and then Dooku gives this goofy look and Anakin does it. It just wasn't done very well, imo. Otherwise, pretty decent list.

Quote
Nonetheless, while that does detract from EP III as a whole, I don't think it makes the final fight bad. You say its early plateau disqualifies it from being a good fight, but I don't think so. What I see is that it starts off with both combatants full of energy and speed, and they wear each other down to the point where Kenobi scores the hit that he does. Rather than rise in intensity, it rises in desperation. The music, the deteriorating planet, and the way the combatants look all add to this effect.

Hmm. Yeah. It's a good fight, but it's not good as THE fight. It could have been like, Kenobi takes Anakin somewhere to spar, and things get way out of hand, before Kenobi manages to cool things down, having gained renewed skepticism about Anakin. But even as THE fight, I do feel it's pretty long, and, as others have said, there are lots of distractions.

Brother H is back, I'd say everyone won.

Agreed!

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #233 on: November 01, 2012, 01:07:22 PM »
Brother H is back, I'd say everyone won.
Once he's in back posting in the LHC thread, yes we will all have won.
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Offline zepp-head

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #234 on: November 01, 2012, 01:10:15 PM »
I hope I can enjoy the new films, but for now I want nothing to do with them.

Geez man, it's a fictional world/universe.  Movies are meant to entertain.  You seem way to 'invested' into the integrity of the Star Wars movie plot-lines.  There's any number of ways to continue the story of an entire galaxy at war.

If it is Episode VII, then it should chronologically be some series of events related to, and after ROTJ.  If it's just a 'seventh movie', the idea of an Old Republic era movie puts a smile in my pants.

As for some of the past few posts, I agree that the story and plot of TOS is far superior to the prequels.  However, for the prequels, Lucas freely admitted (I remember seeing him say this in an interview... forget his exact words though) that his style and vision was more as a visual film-maker given where technology was.  He no longer (for these movies) considered himself to be a literary film-maker.  He totally knew he was just putting together eye-candy.  And I for one was ok with that.

Well, the films have made an unbelievable impact on my life, yes, all six.  They are the reason I chose my career path, and I can't tell you how much of my life I've spent discussing, watching, playing video games etc. all because of Star Wars.

That said, I think the biggest foul people have committed in the fan universe is putting the original trilogy on too much of a pedestal.  I think this severely hurt the enjoyment of anything else in Star Wars for them, and I like the originals more than anybody.  So coming off in that way was never my intention, I'm just very disappointed at the moment.

I read a lot of things here and sometimes other forums, but mostly here about the problems some folks have with the prequels, and it's very tired by now.  I've seen it all, some complaints valid, but most are not.   It irks me that everyone suddenly becomes a film expert when these movies are brought up, and there is no shortage of audacious claims being made. What I really hear is that people are upset that Star Wars is not made for them anymore, and it is disappointing that they cannot find the same enjoyment in it that they once could with the older films.  I am not this person, nor do I intend to be with future installments, but right now, at this point in time, I'm just shocked and disappointed that there is an Episode VII.

I could probably stomach a KOTOR era film, but continuing the story after ROTJ must in some sense, diminish or destroy the resolution we were given.  And even with the good news of it not being based on the Expanded Universe, I would be incredibly surprised if they weren't like those stories in some way, which are filled with awful and contradictory story-telling in a constant attempt to one-up the existing films.  If it's anything like that, it is truly disappointing, because I've always felt it was disrespectful to what has been established.

Offline ehra

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #235 on: November 01, 2012, 01:16:59 PM »
Considering my age, if any of the SW movies were "made for me" it would have been the prequels. I don't even like the original trilogy that much, they're ok. I don't think you have to be a mega fan of the originals to notice what makes the prequels bad.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #236 on: November 01, 2012, 01:19:19 PM »
Considering my age, if any of the SW movies were "made for me" it would have been the prequels. I don't even like the original trilogy that much, they're ok. I don't think you have to be a mega fan of the originals to notice what makes the prequels bad.

Yeah, this.

And zepp, you're completely contradicting yourself. You don't like that people hated the prequels for not being what they thought they should be, but you dislike the EU and the idea of the prequels because it might affect your impression of the series. Well, maybe the prequels destroyed the mythology behind the original series for me, in a way that the games and EU only ever enhanced.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 01:24:47 PM by Perpetual Change »

Offline Ħ

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #237 on: November 01, 2012, 01:20:11 PM »
Brother H is back, I'd say everyone won.
Once he's in back posting in the LHC thread, yes we will all have won.
That would imply my being single, Dimi.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #238 on: November 01, 2012, 01:26:02 PM »
Playa, playa!
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Offline zepp-head

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #239 on: November 01, 2012, 02:35:53 PM »
Considering my age, if any of the SW movies were "made for me" it would have been the prequels. I don't even like the original trilogy that much, they're ok. I don't think you have to be a mega fan of the originals to notice what makes the prequels bad.

Yeah, this.

And zepp, you're completely contradicting yourself. You don't like that people hated the prequels for not being what they thought they should be, but you dislike the EU and the idea of the prequels because it might affect your impression of the series. Well, maybe the prequels destroyed the mythology behind the original series for me, in a way that the games and EU only ever enhanced.

Nah, it doesn't affect my impression of the series, I just think it's poorly done, and I never said I dislike the idea of the prequels, I love them.

The things I don't like about the series are fairly easily ignored.  While I think the Thrawn series was poor story telling, I never felt the need to release a series of ridiculous 90 minute videos about it, make websites about it, blog, etc.  I voice my opinion once in a blue moon here when it's brought up and relevant and that's it.  If someone enjoys it I don't try to steal that enjoyment away from them, whereas here, I've had my tastes and even my education insulted for discussing the merits of episodes 1-3. 

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #240 on: November 01, 2012, 03:33:07 PM »
\

Nah, it doesn't affect my impression of the series, I just think it's poorly done, and I never said I dislike the idea of the prequels, I love them.

The things I don't like about the series are fairly easily ignored.  While I think the Thrawn series was poor story telling, I never felt the need to release a series of ridiculous 90 minute videos about it, make websites about it, blog, etc.  I voice my opinion once in a blue moon here when it's brought up and relevant and that's it.  If someone enjoys it I don't try to steal that enjoyment away from them, whereas here, I've had my tastes and even my education insulted for discussing the merits of episodes 1-3.

There is a big difference though between the feature films and everything else in the franchise.  The novels, comics, video games and other stuff are all basically just padding in the big Star Wars money making machine.  People can love the EU all they want, and I give credit to Lucas and his company for attempting to organize all of that crap into a somewhat contiguous timeline, but at the end of the day, all that stuff was made just so Lucas could have an excuse to make more toys beyond just what we see in the films.  They are commercial filler, even if some of them are rather well done, and as such, they are easily overlooked in the grand scheme of the Star Wars franchise.  The Thrawn Trilogy is no where more important to the franchise then whatever the latest video game was for X-Box or Playstation, no matter what some of the EU fanboys say.  It's all just there to add to the greater Star Wars universe......

............And that universe is centered on the six feature films.  If a Star Wars fan wants to ignore the Thrawn Trilogy, they can.  Not so with the films.  By definition, the six movies are the nucleus of everything that is Star Wars, and all the media and commercial hype that surrounds those movies makes them impossible to ignore, even for people who aren't fans of the series.  Star Wars is one of the biggest multi-media franchises in the history of entertainment, and with the films being the obvious centerpiece of that franchise, they become ubiquitous in the public consciousness of popular culture, whether you are a fan or not.  Star Wars is a brand so big you cannot break it, and nothing pushes that brand more then the films themselves.  Some random SW novel is much easier to avoid then a multi-million dollar summer blockbuster supported by toys, video games, comics, novels, sourcebooks, costumes, etc, etc.

That is why people make a bigger deal about the films then all the other shit.  If Timothy Zahn had put Jar-Jar-Binks in the Thrawn novels, no one would have cared.  At most they would have simply viewed him an ill-conceived attempt at humor within the greater stories of the novels, and just left it at that.  But when a character like Jar Jar shows up in the films, the unavoidable heart of the Star Wars universe..........well, then people tend to become a bit more vocal in their opinions.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 03:39:37 PM by The Dark Master »

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #241 on: November 01, 2012, 03:51:01 PM »
Considering my age, if any of the SW movies were "made for me" it would have been the prequels. I don't even like the original trilogy that much, they're ok. I don't think you have to be a mega fan of the originals to notice what makes the prequels bad.

Yeah, this.

And zepp, you're completely contradicting yourself. You don't like that people hated the prequels for not being what they thought they should be, but you dislike the EU and the idea of the prequels because it might affect your impression of the series. Well, maybe the prequels destroyed the mythology behind the original series for me, in a way that the games and EU only ever enhanced.

Nah, it doesn't affect my impression of the series, I just think it's poorly done, and I never said I dislike the idea of the prequels, I love them.

The things I don't like about the series are fairly easily ignored.  While I think the Thrawn series was poor story telling, I never felt the need to release a series of ridiculous 90 minute videos about it, make websites about it, blog, etc.  I voice my opinion once in a blue moon here when it's brought up and relevant and that's it.  If someone enjoys it I don't try to steal that enjoyment away from them, whereas here, I've had my tastes and even my education insulted for discussing the merits of episodes 1-3.

I'm sorry that you've had your education insulted for liking episodes 1-3. I think they certainly have their various merits, but none are even close to being good films in my opinion. I definitely understand why someone would like them, though, and I personally think Episode I is alright. Also, Jar Jar ain't that bad.

Personally, I don't even know what the whole thrawn thing is.

Offline zepp-head

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #242 on: November 01, 2012, 06:25:38 PM »
\

Nah, it doesn't affect my impression of the series, I just think it's poorly done, and I never said I dislike the idea of the prequels, I love them.

The things I don't like about the series are fairly easily ignored.  While I think the Thrawn series was poor story telling, I never felt the need to release a series of ridiculous 90 minute videos about it, make websites about it, blog, etc.  I voice my opinion once in a blue moon here when it's brought up and relevant and that's it.  If someone enjoys it I don't try to steal that enjoyment away from them, whereas here, I've had my tastes and even my education insulted for discussing the merits of episodes 1-3.

There is a big difference though between the feature films and everything else in the franchise.  The novels, comics, video games and other stuff are all basically just padding in the big Star Wars money making machine.  People can love the EU all they want, and I give credit to Lucas and his company for attempting to organize all of that crap into a somewhat contiguous timeline, but at the end of the day, all that stuff was made just so Lucas could have an excuse to make more toys beyond just what we see in the films.  They are commercial filler, even if some of them are rather well done, and as such, they are easily overlooked in the grand scheme of the Star Wars franchise.  The Thrawn Trilogy is no where more important to the franchise then whatever the latest video game was for X-Box or Playstation, no matter what some of the EU fanboys say.  It's all just there to add to the greater Star Wars universe......

............And that universe is centered on the six feature films.  If a Star Wars fan wants to ignore the Thrawn Trilogy, they can.  Not so with the films.  By definition, the six movies are the nucleus of everything that is Star Wars, and all the media and commercial hype that surrounds those movies makes them impossible to ignore, even for people who aren't fans of the series.  Star Wars is one of the biggest multi-media franchises in the history of entertainment, and with the films being the obvious centerpiece of that franchise, they become ubiquitous in the public consciousness of popular culture, whether you are a fan or not.  Star Wars is a brand so big you cannot break it, and nothing pushes that brand more then the films themselves.  Some random SW novel is much easier to avoid then a multi-million dollar summer blockbuster supported by toys, video games, comics, novels, sourcebooks, costumes, etc, etc.

That is why people make a bigger deal about the films then all the other shit.  If Timothy Zahn had put Jar-Jar-Binks in the Thrawn novels, no one would have cared.  At most they would have simply viewed him an ill-conceived attempt at humor within the greater stories of the novels, and just left it at that.  But when a character like Jar Jar shows up in the films, the unavoidable heart of the Star Wars universe..........well, then people tend to become a bit more vocal in their opinions.

I agree with everything you said.  However, I think many take a little far.  There is the always the option to not watch something, and it seems that many spend countless hours recounting things they hated, and trying to convince others to think the same way.  Why do so many spend so much time on something they claim to hate?  I don't understand.

Whether I end up loving or hating the new films and the new direction for the franchise, I can't imagine being in a position where I would want to rob someone else of their enjoyment of them. 

Considering my age, if any of the SW movies were "made for me" it would have been the prequels. I don't even like the original trilogy that much, they're ok. I don't think you have to be a mega fan of the originals to notice what makes the prequels bad.

Yeah, this.

And zepp, you're completely contradicting yourself. You don't like that people hated the prequels for not being what they thought they should be, but you dislike the EU and the idea of the prequels because it might affect your impression of the series. Well, maybe the prequels destroyed the mythology behind the original series for me, in a way that the games and EU only ever enhanced.

Nah, it doesn't affect my impression of the series, I just think it's poorly done, and I never said I dislike the idea of the prequels, I love them.

The things I don't like about the series are fairly easily ignored.  While I think the Thrawn series was poor story telling, I never felt the need to release a series of ridiculous 90 minute videos about it, make websites about it, blog, etc.  I voice my opinion once in a blue moon here when it's brought up and relevant and that's it.  If someone enjoys it I don't try to steal that enjoyment away from them, whereas here, I've had my tastes and even my education insulted for discussing the merits of episodes 1-3.

I'm sorry that you've had your education insulted for liking episodes 1-3. I think they certainly have their various merits, but none are even close to being good films in my opinion. I definitely understand why someone would like them, though, and I personally think Episode I is alright. Also, Jar Jar ain't that bad.

Personally, I don't even know what the whole thrawn thing is.

Unfortunately there are many that can't respect film school if it happens to disagree with anything they think.  :lol 

Come to think of it, there are a lot of issues and principles people tend to throw out if they're not happy with the end result.  Shame.

Also this: https://www.cracked.com/article/167_5-reasons-star-wars-sequels-would-be-worse-than-prequels_p2/ :P
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 06:39:21 PM by zepp-head »

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #243 on: November 01, 2012, 06:49:21 PM »
\

Nah, it doesn't affect my impression of the series, I just think it's poorly done, and I never said I dislike the idea of the prequels, I love them.

The things I don't like about the series are fairly easily ignored.  While I think the Thrawn series was poor story telling, I never felt the need to release a series of ridiculous 90 minute videos about it, make websites about it, blog, etc.  I voice my opinion once in a blue moon here when it's brought up and relevant and that's it.  If someone enjoys it I don't try to steal that enjoyment away from them, whereas here, I've had my tastes and even my education insulted for discussing the merits of episodes 1-3.

There is a big difference though between the feature films and everything else in the franchise.  The novels, comics, video games and other stuff are all basically just padding in the big Star Wars money making machine.  People can love the EU all they want, and I give credit to Lucas and his company for attempting to organize all of that crap into a somewhat contiguous timeline, but at the end of the day, all that stuff was made just so Lucas could have an excuse to make more toys beyond just what we see in the films.  They are commercial filler, even if some of them are rather well done, and as such, they are easily overlooked in the grand scheme of the Star Wars franchise.  The Thrawn Trilogy is no where more important to the franchise then whatever the latest video game was for X-Box or Playstation, no matter what some of the EU fanboys say.  It's all just there to add to the greater Star Wars universe......

............And that universe is centered on the six feature films.  If a Star Wars fan wants to ignore the Thrawn Trilogy, they can.  Not so with the films.  By definition, the six movies are the nucleus of everything that is Star Wars, and all the media and commercial hype that surrounds those movies makes them impossible to ignore, even for people who aren't fans of the series.  Star Wars is one of the biggest multi-media franchises in the history of entertainment, and with the films being the obvious centerpiece of that franchise, they become ubiquitous in the public consciousness of popular culture, whether you are a fan or not.  Star Wars is a brand so big you cannot break it, and nothing pushes that brand more then the films themselves.  Some random SW novel is much easier to avoid then a multi-million dollar summer blockbuster supported by toys, video games, comics, novels, sourcebooks, costumes, etc, etc.

That is why people make a bigger deal about the films then all the other shit.  If Timothy Zahn had put Jar-Jar-Binks in the Thrawn novels, no one would have cared.  At most they would have simply viewed him an ill-conceived attempt at humor within the greater stories of the novels, and just left it at that.  But when a character like Jar Jar shows up in the films, the unavoidable heart of the Star Wars universe..........well, then people tend to become a bit more vocal in their opinions.

I agree with everything you said.  However, I think many take a little far.  There is the always the option to not watch something, and it seems that many spend countless hours recounting things they hated, and trying to convince others to think the same way.  Why do so many spend so much time on something they claim to hate?  I don't understand.

Whether I end up loving or hating the new films and the new direction for the franchise, I can't imagine being in a position where I would want to rob someone else of their enjoyment of them.

Oh, absolutely.  I have many issues with the prequels, but the people who cry "George Lucas raped my childhood!" need to get the fuck over themselves.  The prequels have their problems, but none of that takes away how special Star Wars was to me pre-1999, nor does it take way from my ability to continue to enjoy the parts of the saga I like.  Ultimately, over the years I have come to view the greater Star Wars franchise in much the same way I view the whole Transformers franchise (which even moreso then Star Wars is purely about just having an excuse to sell toys).  The stuff I like, I enjoy and cherish.  The stuff I don't like, I just don't buy or watch again.  It's as simple as that.  George, and now Disney, can do whatever they want with Star Wars; it won't affect me in the slightest if they make something I dislike under the SW banner.  Much of my recent issues with George have not been over the current direction of the franchise, but over his stubborn refusal to give the original, unaltered trilogy a proper modern release (because seriously, what valid reason is there not to have the original versions of those movies available to the people who love them?).  But as far as any future movies, tv shows, novels, comics, video games or whatever are concerned?  He can do whatever the hell he wants.

Offline zepp-head

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015
« Reply #244 on: November 01, 2012, 08:12:03 PM »
Amen.