Disney buys Lucasfilm; Star Wars Episode 7 coming in 2015

[Super Dude]

Well, Super Dude, maybe I used "cinematic style" wrong but I mentioned it later: the "Star Wars" style is just too damn slow-moving and too kid-friendly.

I know that's what Lucas was going for but kids now handle things way differently than in the 70's and 80's, what with gadgets and multi-tasking everywhere.  Just think about how long it takes for Yoda and Dooku to actually bring out their sabers... too much talking and lame throwing things.  We know the basics of what they can do already so get to the action and show us something new and exciting... like the action in the video games and comic books but in movie form.

Yeah, most of the next generation have grown up "with gadgets and multi-tasking everywhere", but that doesn't mean we all have ADD. The witty dialogue between and during fights is what made Avengers awesome. And, what people loved about Inception wasn't that there was shooting, but that it made you think. Same goes for the new Batman movies. The final duel in Return of the Jedi would be boring by your standards ("too much talking and lame throwing things"), but I still find it way more intriguing and exciting than the hyper-climactic overload that was Anakin's and Obi-Wan's volcano dance.

I'd continue on, but I just disagree with almost everything you've stated in your post, and thinking about refuting it makes me a sad panda.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to second this. Honestly, the "fast-paced awesomness" you refer to in the prequel trilogy, such as Sidious throwing those Senate pods, only accentuated the general phoniness I got from the entire film. It's like reading something all in caps: EVENTUALLY IT JUST SORT OF LOSES ITS INTENDED GRAVITY. Of course, the worst offender in that regard is the Anakin vs. Obi-Wan lightsaber fight, but in general it just goes to show that sometimes less is more (and vice versa).

Edit: Well, seems I was beaten to the punch by Adami, and didn't even realize it.

[Big Hath]

"You're a scruffy-looking nerve-hurter"

ok, I can't let this get through.

it's "Nerf herder".

[Adami]

"You're a scruffy-looking nerve-hurter"

ok, I can't let this get through.

it's "Nerf herder".

Somehow I didn't notice that. Good catch.

Also, on a similar note, I fixed your username.

[Big Hath]

I have been accused of being cold . . .

[The Dark Master]

If they are going to do new films, they should take place as far away from the existing six as possible.  A direct sequel to IV/V/VI won't work because Mark, Carrie and Harrison are all way to old to play their characters, but at the same time are too closely associated with them to simply be recast and replaced.  If they want to set the new movie after ROTJ, I think it should be set at least 30 years after, if not much more so (50-100+ years).  That way, the new film jumps over most of the post-ROTJ EU and doesn't conflict with the established "canon", and leaves the doors open for all new characters and adventures.  Films taking place before TPM would be a good choice too, as much of that era has not really been explored in depth within the EU and is a complete blank slate as far as stories and characters are concerned.

Mark Hamill is too old to play Luke at 30.   But he's not too old to play Luke at 60.

Do you think these characters never age?   Canon has already expressed that they do.   This isn't The Simpsons you know. 

I think it would be PERFECT to have as much of the original cast as possible playing their characters 50 years later.   Maybe not as part of the *action*...but (as someone hinted before) as more of the older guides....ala Obi Wan in the OT.

That was more or less what I was getting at.  My post was somewhat rushed because I was on my way to work and I guess I didn't complete my thought.  What I meant was basically this:  The story of the new trilogy cannot revolve around Luke, Leia and Han.  It goes beyond the age of the actors, the story of those characters was wrapped up pretty nicely in episode VI, and if you follow the post-ROTJ EU, everything that could have been done with those characters was done to death.  A new trilogy would, by necessity, require taking place at least 20-30 years after ROTJ just like the prequels were 30-20 before ANH simply because they required different characters and settings despite being in the same universe.  In fact, I think the prequel era of the SW universe has, at this point, been beaten to death in the EU just as badly as the era of the original trilogy was before '99.  A new SW film franchise requires a whole new generation of characters to revive the brand and introduce it to a whole new generation of fans, just like the prequels did back in 99-05.

Also, something that I thought about today was that if the new movies do take place 20-30 years after ROTJ, they may not conflict with the post ROTJ EU all that much anyways.  Much of the EU from that time period is within the first 15 years after ROTJ anyways, and after that it gets pretty spread out.  There are plenty of places where they could fit in a new trilogy of films with a generation of characters we've never encountered before.  Just like how the prequels didn't erase any on the existing pre-ANH EU (like Tales Of The Jedi), I see no reason why a new SW trilogy cannot be fit into the existing post-ROTJ timeline anyways.  The movies rarely explore events before and between the films in any meaningful depth anyways; Lucas always left that up to the writers of novels, comics, cartoons and video games.  Even if the new films don't really acknowledge the existent EU, as long as they don't contradict each other too severely, the various SW sourcebooks will smooth over any inconsistencies between events in the new films and events in the EU, just like they did with the prequels.

[PetFish]

For the record, I love dialog "with purpose" and passion, but when it's time to fight I want to see them being the best at what they do, Force-user or not, and not struggling to lift a piece of trash and throw it.  I'm hoping the new movies have all that.  We'll just have to wait and see.

[Jaffa]

Several things in this thread make me very very sad.

[DebraKadabra]

I respectfully disagree - I think they need to distance the new movies as far away from the original trilogy and prequels as possible, regardless if they decide to go to the past or to the future.

While I agree with other sentiments that they shouldn't recast or build a story around Luke, Leia, and Han, I think that continuity and "big picture" themes are still necessary. Otherwise, it's just an independent movie that uses Star Wars gimmicks.

You know, that's a really good point.  I rushed my post, as I was at work, but I meant to add that in not building a story around Han, Leia and Luke that they would also have to abandon everything else.

[Pols Voice]

Several things in this thread make me very very sad.

I'm too afraid to read this thread.

[Ħ]

People really didn't like the lightsaber fights in the prequels? If anything I'd say they are one the things better in the prequels. While there's certainly an emotional, nostalgic response to be had to the duels of the originals, they are slow and clunky. Ep IV's Kenobi vs Vader was very unimpressive, specifically. I have the image of Kenobi's old man spin move burned into my brain.

The prequels, on the other hand, were very well choreographed with each Jedi/Sith having their own unique style. And emotion, in  many cases. Anakin vs Kenobi (ep III) is, IMO, the best duel in the series. The greatest Sith warrior vs a Jedi Master. The end-all battle that the whole series led up to. Emotional and stylistic.

Were there unnecessary, gimmicky fights? Yes. But the best of the prequels trumps the best of the sequels.

[jingle.boy]

Hate to admit it, but I agree with H.

[snapple]

The only good lightsaber battle in the prequels was the Maul duel. The rest are not fun at all.

[Dark Castle]

The only good lightsaber battle in the prequels was the Maul duel. The rest are not fun at all.

Love the Maul duel, and completely disagree with the rest of what you have to say.

[jammindude]

The battle between Anakin and Count Dooku was absolutely pathetic.     My first thought upon seeing it was that it felt like something from a Sid & Marty Krofft show from the 70's.     Like Electra Woman and Dyna Girl or something.    Worst light saber duel of all 6 movies.

[snapple]

I enjoyed the prequels, but they really are awful compared to the OT.

[Perpetual Change]

People really didn't like the lightsaber fights in the prequels? If anything I'd say they are one the things better in the prequels. While there's certainly an emotional, nostalgic response to be had to the duels of the originals, they are slow and clunky. Ep IV's Kenobi vs Vader was very unimpressive, specifically. I have the image of Kenobi's old man spin move burned into my brain.

The prequels, on the other hand, were very well choreographed with each Jedi/Sith having their own unique style. And emotion, in  many cases. Anakin vs Kenobi (ep III) is, IMO, the best duel in the series. The greatest Sith warrior vs a Jedi Master. The end-all battle that the whole series led up to. Emotional and stylistic.

Were there unnecessary, gimmicky fights? Yes. But the best of the prequels trumps the best of the sequels.

I just watched both the final duels of both trilogies. Here are some thoughts:

Episode VI's duel is all about Luke facing the temptation of the Dark Side. Episode III is all Kenobi acknowledging it's time to put Anakin down, and having those two go all-out against each other while showing off new technology.

There's a genuine build-up going on in VI. At first, Luke refuses to fight. He doesn't want to be tempted by the Dark Side at all. Vader takes swings at him, but all Luke does is parry, and run. You can tell that he wants to bring Vader back, and that he still has hope. Only after a long period of baiting does Vader finally draw Luke's dark side out. Then, there's all sorts of cleaving and swinging going on from both participants. But, there's an art to the scene. It takes awhile before Vader draws Luke into fighting to kill, which emphasizes the difference between the light and dark sides of the force. The same emphasis, by that way, that's placed when Kenobi completely yields to Vader in Episode IV.

Not so with Episode III. In III, you have Kenobi and Anakin going for the jugular right away. As soon as their lightsabers are drawn, it's understood the fight will be duel to the death. And, why not? In previous episodes, light side Jedi have ended duels by hacking off the limbs and heads of their dark side opponents. So who cares?

Episode III's final duel is like a big fireworks display. It's awesome, but it doesn't mean anything. There's tons of pyrotechnics and explosions going on to supplement the action, but there is nowhere near the emotional and psychological pull of Episode VI's duel.   

Now, why I think Episode I's duel works, while Episode III's doesn't: first off, length. III hits its climactic height early, and stays in the same place for a loooong time. Not so with I. Episode I's duel is just about the right length, and the choreography and music are extremely well done. Kenobi fights as you'd expect Kenobi to fight, with the intention of putting Maul down only when it's abundantly clear that there is no other way. And, Maul is practically subhuman. He's red and black, with thorns growing out of his head. He's like an evil demon, or something. It makes sense that Jin and Kenobi would want to take him down immediately. The fight doesn't need the same emotional build-up Jedi-artistry that Skywaker/Vader had in Episode VI, or Skywalker/Kenobi sorely needed in Episode III. It's just two Jedi putting down what is practically an out-of-control animal. It's just a good fight. It's not really a duel, but an arena fight.

The original trilogy has duels. All of the Jedi fights in the prequels are arena fights.

[Dark Castle]

What are you talking about, near the point where Anakin's about to lose, Kenobi is begging with Anakin to reconsider, not fall into the Dark Side, I found it pretty emotional.

[jingle.boy]

The Maul/Kenobi-Jinn dual is epic for several reasons.  We'd never seen any other Sith wield a lightsaber other than Vader... who was bulky, methodical, and somewhat clunky; Maul was smooth, agile, quick, graceful, powerful and dynamic.  It was 2-on-1.  The dual-hilt saber was one mother of a moment.  The Duel of the Fates is the most epic music, comparable with anything from TOS.

While flashy as all hell, the Kenobi/Skywalker duel was just too over the top.  All of the Yoda duel's carried the 'meh' aspect of knowing it was 100% CGI.  Cool to see him hopping around like a Tazmanian devil-jedi, but after a couple of watches, they're both pretty uneventful.

[ehra]

What are you talking about, near the point where Anakin's about to lose, Kenobi is begging with Anakin to reconsider, not fall into the Dark Side, I found it pretty emotional.

Which doesn't make sense when he was clearly fighting to kill not moments earlier. I don't think anyone claimed the scene wasn't trying to be emotional, just that it doesn't do a good job of it. It reminded me of a comic book or crappy anime where the writers/characters are trying to push some kind of high level philosophical view or take the moral high ground while actively trying to murder each other in the flashiest way possible.

[jingle.boy]

What are you talking about, near the point where Anakin's about to lose, Kenobi is begging with Anakin to reconsider, not fall into the Dark Side, I found it pretty emotional.

You forgot the green font.

[snapple]

What are you talking about, near the point where Anakin's about to lose, Kenobi is begging with Anakin to reconsider, not fall into the Dark Side, I found it pretty emotional.

You forgot the green font.

 

[Dark Castle]

 

[bosk1]

The Maul/Kenobi-Jinn dual is epic for several reasons.  We'd never seen any other Sith wield a lightsaber other than Vader... who was bulky, methodical, and somewhat clunky; Maul was smooth, agile, quick, graceful, powerful and dynamic.  It was 2-on-1.  The dual-hilt saber was one mother of a moment.  The Duel of the Fates is the most epic music, comparable with anything from TOS.

While flashy as all hell, the Kenobi/Skywalker duel was just too over the top.  All of the Yoda duel's carried the 'meh' aspect of knowing it was 100% CGI.  Cool to see him hopping around like a Tazmanian devil-jedi, but after a couple of watches, they're both pretty uneventful.

And another thing that is crucial in distinguishing the Kenobi/Skywalker duel is environment.  Unlike probably every single other duel, the environment in which this duel too place was FAR too distracting.  Not only was there too much going on, but even more importantly, you just had to exert far, FAR too much effort to even come close to forcing yourself to believe they were on a volcano planet, fighting this entire duel sometimes within inches of molten lava.  With probably all the other duels, the environment either wasn't all that noticeable or actually provided an appropriate backdrop for what was going on. 

[jingle.boy]

What are you talking about, near the point where Anakin's about to lose, Kenobi is begging with Anakin to reconsider, not fall into the Dark Side, I found it pretty emotional.

The only thing emotional about this is the anger in wanting to wring Kenobi's neck.  You're trying to give him salvation, after spending the last 15 minutes trying to kill him?  MAKE UP YOUR FUCKING MIND!

At this point, we've veered severely , with nary a mention of Disney in a while.

[Ryzee]

Everybody my age hates on the prequels, it's da coolest!! You aint cool, unless you hate da prequels!



On the subject of duels I kind of like Anakin & Obi Wan v. Dooku I in epi 2 before Yoda rolls up.  It was cool to see sith lightning again and the little part where Anakin fights Dooku alone for a minute with the dark lighting effects is kind of cool, mainly because it evokes the fight between Luke and Vader in Empire (my favorite of the duels).  Hmm...I think I'll attempt to rank the duels:


Luke v. Vader I (Empire)
Luke v. Vader II (Jedi)
Qui Gon & Obi Wan v. Maul (TPM)
Obi Wan & Anakin v. Dooku I (AOTC)
Qui Gon v. Maul (TPM- on Tatooine, it's very brief but it was the first sith v. jedi fighting I'd seen in years)
Obi Wan v. Vader II (ANH)


Obi Wan v. Vader I (ROTS)
Yoda v. Dooku (AOTC)
Yoda v. Emperor (ROTS)
Obi Wan & Anakin v. Dooku II (ROTS)


Something like that.  Am I forgetting any?


Back on topic:  I enjoy Star Wars, I enjoy Disney.  I look forward to seeing what Disney does with Star Wars.  Since it's common knowledge that the prequels are like the most hated thing in the history of the interwebs I'd have to assume that the folks in charge of putting out the next batch of movies will look at everything people disliked about the prequels and try not to make those same mistakes again.  I guess I'm just an optimist.

[Dark Castle]

Darth Maul needs to come back, I mean it is canon that he survived.  He is my favorite Sith.

[Perpetual Change]

What are you talking about, near the point where Anakin's about to lose, Kenobi is begging with Anakin to reconsider, not fall into the Dark Side, I found it pretty emotional.

Which doesn't make sense when he was clearly fighting to kill not moments earlier. I don't think anyone claimed the scene wasn't trying to be emotional, just that it doesn't do a good job of it. It reminded me of a comic book or crappy anime where the writers/characters are trying to push some kind of high level philosophical view or take the moral high ground while actively trying to murder each other in the flashiest way possible.

This, Dark Castle. I was trying to make that point with my post. Yeah, there's tons of talk about not wanting to kill each other, but it's just talk. As soon as those sabers go up, you know it's a death match. Kenobi may say some nice things about making things work at the end, but that doesn't negate the fact that he already came very close to cleaving Skywalker's skull in two.

That's a big the difference between the two films. The original series has duels between members of an elite religious order. The prequel trilogy has arena death matches. They may be presented to the audience as duels, but they are not. Duels are codified fighting arrangements to settle disputes among upper echelon people, perfect for an order like the Jedi. The fights in the prequel trilogy are gladiator-style romps in "built-to-destroy" 3-D battle arenas.

[Dark Castle]

I'll need to rewatch episodes I-III this weekend, it's been too long since I've seen them.

[Orbert]

[Ħ]

I just watched both the final duels of both trilogies. Here are some thoughts:

There's a genuine build-up going on in VI.

Not so with Episode III.

I think there was good build-up for the Kenobi/Skywalker fight. First, there was plenty of pre-release anticipation. This was the defining moment of Anakin's transformation. It was the segue between the prequels and the OT. It was "blue on blue," "good guy on good guy" for the first time in Star Wars's movie history. The moment everyone was waiting for.

Second, the entire movie basically lead up to it. First Anakin slowly turns to the Dark Side and Obi-Wan is unaware of what is happening. Then Obi-Wan watches the tape of his killing younglings. He's clearly distraught and heads to the lava planet with Padme. They have their confrontation where Padme and Obi-Wan try to convince Anakin to come back to the light, Anakin chokes Padme, and they finally go at it. Plenty of build-up.

Regarding the lava planet itself, it provided a good environment, I thought, for the final battle. Rather than be distracting, the fire and lava affect the battle plenty enough. There were times when it was a bit cheesy, yes, but many others when it really enhanced the atmosphere and the danger they were both in. It added to the already precarious nature of the battle.

Darth Maul needs to come back, I mean it is canon that he survived.  He is my favorite Sith.

He survived being chopped in half?

[Dark Castle]

I just watched both the final duels of both trilogies. Here are some thoughts:

There's a genuine build-up going on in VI.

Not so with Episode III.

I think there was good build-up for the Kenobi/Skywalker fight. First, there was plenty of pre-release anticipation. This was the defining moment of Anakin's transformation. It was the segue between the prequels and the OT. It was "blue on blue," "good guy on good guy" for the first time in Star Wars's movie history. The moment everyone was waiting for.

Second, the entire movie basically lead up to it. First Anakin slowly turns to the Dark Side and Obi-Wan is unaware of what is happening. Then Obi-Wan watches the tape of his killing younglings. He's clearly distraught and heads to the lava planet with Padme. They have their confrontation where Padme and Obi-Wan try to convince Anakin to come back to the light, Anakin chokes Padme, and they finally go at it. Plenty of build-up.

Regarding the lava planet itself, it provided a good environment, I thought, for the final battle. Rather than be distracting, the fire and lava affect the battle plenty enough. There were times when it was a bit cheesy, yes, but many others when it really enhanced the atmosphere and the danger they were both in. It added to the already precarious nature of the battle.

Darth Maul needs to come back, I mean it is canon that he survived.  He is my favorite Sith.

He survived being chopped in half?

Yeah, he's a fucking bad ass, and that's why he's my favorite   

[snapple]

H, no. Just, no.

[Implode]

The ROTS final battle just dragged on for too long imo. I got bored. It's was also hard to be invested in a "lethal" duel when they were swinging for cables over 100 ft above a giant lava river.

[Perpetual Change]

I think there was good build-up for the Kenobi/Skywalker fight. First, there was plenty of pre-release anticipation.

Pre-release anticipation isn't really the same thing as the thematic build-up that I'm talking about.

Second, the entire movie basically lead up to it. First Anakin slowly turns to the Dark Side and Obi-Wan is unaware of what is happening. Then Obi-Wan watches the tape of his killing younglings. He's clearly distraught and heads to the lava planet with Padme. They have their confrontation where Padme and Obi-Wan try to convince Anakin to come back to the light, Anakin chokes Padme, and they finally go at it. Plenty of build-up.

I'm talking about the nature of the fight itself. You can, of course, argue that Kenobi is justified it wanting to kill Anakin after watching the child-killing tape. Maybe, even as a Jedi Knight, he is. I'm not sure. But that doesn't mean the fight itself has any dramatic build-up. There's a progression in the original trilogy duels that emphasizes how the forces of light and darkness are working against each-other; how Vader manages to pull Luke over to the Dark Side a smidge by baiting Luke into attacking him, or how Kenobi completely yields rather than let Vader stir up some dark side leanings that may still exist in him.

Episode III's duel beings on a plateau. It starts out intense, and it stays there. Forever. There's no build-up, or climax. It's just like a long fireworks display. Yeah, Kenobi delivers some passionate lines about trying to save Anakin at the end, but so what? He has to do that, to satisfy the sensibilities of a movie going audience who want to see a bombastic arena death match on screen that somehow aligns with popular notions that killing is the last resort. It doesn't really mean anything.

It's just mindless, over-the-top action, prefaced by really bad, over-the-top drama. "GOTTA GO KILL THE CHILD-KILLING SPOUSE ABUSER IN A SELF-DESTRUCTING BUILDING OVER A PIT OF MOLTEN LAVA!' The prequel trilogy is full of that shit.

[kirksnosehair]

Wasn't there some talk/rumors/whatever about doing the Chewbacca back-story or something?


In any case, based on the high level of suck Lucas achieved with episodes I, II and III, I think the bar is set extremely low for anything Disney does now.