Author Topic: Wall Street Protests (Read 74543 times)

livehard · « **Reply #490 on:** October 13, 2011, 09:41:08 AM »

Ya Wall St wrecked the economy. Pathetic... that doens't even mean anything. How come nobody goes after Barney or Dodd. This populist attitude is pathetic. I personally KNOW the people that created the MBS's on wall st. They were punished to the highest extent possible in a free market. They were kicked out on their ass. Those that weren't were higher ups who mismangaged their organization, but was allowed to keep it due to the anti-competitive policies of Washington.

antigoon · « **Reply #491 on:** October 13, 2011, 09:47:02 AM »

Quote from: livehard on October 13, 2011, 09:41:08 AM

Ya Wall St wrecked the economy. Pathetic... that doens't even mean anything.

Please, enlighten us.

livehard · « **Reply #492 on:** October 13, 2011, 09:54:24 AM »

The founding of the capital/money markets, and the ability for the common man to invest has done more than any activist, or liberal loon in washington sq park, or bill that some politician has put together to "help the poor"

There, enlightened.

antigoon · « **Reply #493 on:** October 13, 2011, 09:59:06 AM »

So the founding of the capital/money markets absolves bankers of any and all wrongdoing since then, and we should just be grateful while we take it up the ass?

Super Dude · « **Reply #494 on:** October 13, 2011, 10:08:21 AM »

Y'know livehard, for all your idealization of the market and how it serves the common man, you don't bother to hide your disdain for the common man.

livehard · « **Reply #495 on:** October 13, 2011, 10:14:03 AM »

I am the common man. I wish I wasn't but trust me I am. I work on Wall St and trust me, if you think its people driving around in ferraris with models and bottles you're sorely mistaken.

antigoon · « **Reply #496 on:** October 13, 2011, 10:16:56 AM »

Nobody is upset with the rank and file Wall Street employees.

Quote from: antigoon on October 13, 2011, 09:59:06 AM

So the founding of the capital/money markets absolves bankers of any and all wrongdoing since then?

There, I removed the snark from my question. Can you answer it now?

livehard · « **Reply #497 on:** October 13, 2011, 10:18:56 AM »

Quote from: antigoon on October 13, 2011, 10:16:56 AM

Nobody is upset with the rank and file Wall Street employees.

Quote from: antigoon on October 13, 2011, 09:59:06 AM
So the founding of the capital/money markets absolves bankers of any and all wrongdoing since then?

There, I removed the snark from my question. Can you answer it now?

No, but I think there is a knee jerk reaction to eat the rich instead of figuring out what exactly happened and who is to blame. They are blaming Wall St and the rich. Thats a huge generaliation. Wall St. isn't what people think it is.

antigoon · « **Reply #498 on:** October 13, 2011, 10:23:50 AM »

Again, the problem is not with "the rich." Being rich is fine. I'm thrilled that this country allows folks to make a ton of money. What I'm not okay with is the rich using their disproportionate power to game the system in their favor.

Super Dude · « **Reply #499 on:** October 13, 2011, 10:26:41 AM »

Agreed with goon. And it also doesn't help to first say "stop blaming the rich, they aren't at fault everything wrong with the country," and then turn around and say it's the poor's fault or everyone but the rich or something. Same game, different faces sort of thing.

livehard · « **Reply #500 on:** October 13, 2011, 10:28:59 AM »

Quote from: antigoon on October 13, 2011, 10:23:50 AM

Again, the problem is not with "the rich." Being rich is fine. I'm thrilled that this country allows folks to make a ton of money. What I'm not okay with is the rich using their disproportionate power to game the system in their favor.

Then march on washington. The only people that are allowing them to do it is the non-free marketers. Otherwise they would just be people that are trading goods and services with willing participants.

Scheavo · « **Reply #501 on:** October 13, 2011, 02:01:34 PM »

Quote from: livehard on October 13, 2011, 10:28:59 AM

Quote from: antigoon on October 13, 2011, 10:23:50 AM
Again, the problem is not with "the rich." Being rich is fine. I'm thrilled that this country allows folks to make a ton of money. What I'm not okay with is the rich using their disproportionate power to game the system in their favor.

Then march on washington. The only people that are allowing them to do it is the non-free marketers. Otherwise they would just be people that are trading goods and services with willing participants.

Ya know, the wallstreeters re anti-free marketers. Why? They've corrupted the government to serve their own needs.

Marching on Washington wouldn't do much so long as Wallstreet still holds the purse strings for Washington.

Chino · « **Reply #502 on:** October 13, 2011, 02:35:59 PM »

This is pretty shocking IMO.

https://money.cnn.com/2011/10/13/news/economy/occupy_wall_street_money/index.htm?iid=HP_LN

Quote

NEW YORK (CNN) -- After 26 days of protests in New York's financial center, the Occupy Wall Street movement has raised over $150,000 in donations, according to Pete Dutro, a member of the protest's financial arm.

This massive fundraising was made through donations via mail, two websites -- occupywallst.org and nycga.cc -- and in person to members of what the movement calls its "Finance Working Group."

Separately, four days ago, "Occupy Wall Street Media" successfully raised over $75,000 worth of donation pledges to be used toward the protest's official publication, The Occupy Wall Street Journal, according to the online funding platform Kickstarter.

In addition to overseeing fundraising, members of the Finance Working Group, distinguishable by their gold dollar sign armbands, are also charged with disbursing funds to the other groups within the movement. These groups, which range from more permanent teams like Security and Media, to temporary teams assigned to isolated tasks, become eligible for funding upon approval by the general assembly.

orcus116 · « **Reply #503 on:** October 13, 2011, 04:19:48 PM »

So in educating myself on taxes I'd like to ask a question of Praxis, if he's even around. I noticed "I am the 53%" thing and the message seems to be that those people think they're part of people who pay all the taxes. Surely that's not mistaken for this:

https://money.cnn.com/2011/04/14/pf/taxes/who_pays_income_taxes/index.htm

It seems to me that that 45-47% number of people who "don't pay taxes" that gets bandied about is, in reality, people that don't owe taxes at the end of the year because, well, taxes have already been taken out. I've never owed a single dollar come tax season ever, does that make me not one of these exclusive 53% even though I get taxes a good $400 every paycheck?

73109 · « **Reply #504 on:** October 13, 2011, 04:22:01 PM »

*waits for a response about how the unnecessary controlling of the free market is to blame for the statistics*

Riceball · « **Reply #505 on:** October 13, 2011, 05:47:27 PM »

Quote from: orcus116 on October 13, 2011, 04:19:48 PM

So in educating myself on taxes I'd like to ask a question of Praxis, if he's even around. I noticed "I am the 53%" thing and the message seems to be that those people think they're part of people who pay all the taxes. Surely that's not mistaken for this:

https://money.cnn.com/2011/04/14/pf/taxes/who_pays_income_taxes/index.htm

It seems to me that that 45-47% number of people who "don't pay taxes" that gets bandied about is, in reality, people that don't owe taxes at the end of the year because, well, taxes have already been taken out. I've never owed a single dollar come tax season ever, does that make me not one of these exclusive 53% even though I get taxes a good $400 every paycheck?

If it is...

for him lol.

antigoon · « **Reply #506 on:** October 13, 2011, 06:48:56 PM »

The 53% thing is an absolute joke.

zxlkho · « **Reply #507 on:** October 14, 2011, 12:23:24 AM »

found this on facebook.

Perpetual Change · « **Reply #508 on:** October 14, 2011, 01:05:30 AM »

Quote from: Riceball on October 13, 2011, 05:47:27 PM

Quote from: orcus116 on October 13, 2011, 04:19:48 PM
So in educating myself on taxes I'd like to ask a question of Praxis, if he's even around. I noticed "I am the 53%" thing and the message seems to be that those people think they're part of people who pay all the taxes. Surely that's not mistaken for this:

https://money.cnn.com/2011/04/14/pf/taxes/who_pays_income_taxes/index.htm

It seems to me that that 45-47% number of people who "don't pay taxes" that gets bandied about is, in reality, people that don't owe taxes at the end of the year because, well, taxes have already been taken out. I've never owed a single dollar come tax season ever, does that make me not one of these exclusive 53% even though I get taxes a good $400 every paycheck?

If it is... for him lol.

Why wouldn't it be?

The entire libertarian platform seems to be based on getting you to believe that you're not entitled to the "entitlement programs" you've actually been paying into your whole life.

Riceball · « **Reply #509 on:** October 14, 2011, 01:17:21 AM »

I don't understand the question.

JasonScandopolous · « **Reply #510 on:** October 14, 2011, 11:35:11 AM »

Quote from: orcus116 on October 13, 2011, 04:19:48 PM

So in educating myself on taxes I'd like to ask a question of Praxis, if he's even around. I noticed "I am the 53%" thing and the message seems to be that those people think they're part of people who pay all the taxes. Surely that's not mistaken for this:

https://money.cnn.com/2011/04/14/pf/taxes/who_pays_income_taxes/index.htm

It seems to me that that 45-47% number of people who "don't pay taxes" that gets bandied about is, in reality, people that don't owe taxes at the end of the year because, well, taxes have already been taken out. I've never owed a single dollar come tax season ever, does that make me not one of these exclusive 53% even though I get taxes a good $400 every paycheck?

No, it means that 53% of people don't pay any federal income tax. anything taken out would be state tax, SS&medicare tax (at a lower proportion than the rich), etc. obviously everybody pays sales tax. The figure is solely regarding federal income tax.

Scheavo · « **Reply #511 on:** October 14, 2011, 12:01:22 PM »

Quote from: JasonScandopolous on October 14, 2011, 11:35:11 AM

SS&medicare tax (at a lower proportion than the rich), etc.

Actually, payroll taxes that go towards SS and Medicare stop at 106k, meaning after your first 106k, you don't pay them.

Those programs are also the major gripes by people, so it's nice to keep in mind that the poor people are paying for their "entitlement" programs.

The point is, there are more federal taxes than just the "income" tax, which Americans pay. The oft-used number that many people don't pay federal income tax is misleading, as that article thoroughly demonstrates. People who don't have money can't pay taxes on that money, and that's the simple truth of it.

emindead · « **Reply #512 on:** October 14, 2011, 05:26:35 PM »

zxlkho · « **Reply #513 on:** October 14, 2011, 05:31:34 PM »

"I recieved 2 scholarships which cover 90% of my tuition."

Not everyone that attends a university can get scholarships. For me, I applied for dozens of scholarships and got NOTHING to help pay for tuition.

EDIT: Also that guy actually is the 99% lol.

sonatafanica · « **Reply #514 on:** October 14, 2011, 06:29:54 PM »

Quote from: emindead on October 14, 2011, 05:26:35 PM

what an idiot.

good for you, you're employed and have no debt, that must mean that the system is not broken and everyone else is a whiny layabout.

jesus christ.

Scheavo · « **Reply #515 on:** October 14, 2011, 07:05:05 PM »

Quote from: emindead on October 14, 2011, 05:26:35 PM

I hope this guy faces a medical emergency soon, lives, then realizes how the real world works and finds himself in debt and enslaved to a system he doesn't have a say in.

zxlkho · « **Reply #516 on:** October 14, 2011, 07:06:39 PM »

Quote from: Scheavo on October 14, 2011, 07:05:05 PM

I hope this guy faces a medical emergency soon, lives, then realizes how the real world works and finds himself in debt and enslaved to a system he doesn't have a say in.

Thank you.

orcus116 · « **Reply #517 on:** October 14, 2011, 07:07:25 PM »

Quote from: JasonScandopolous on October 14, 2011, 11:35:11 AM

Quote from: orcus116 on October 13, 2011, 04:19:48 PM
So in educating myself on taxes I'd like to ask a question of Praxis, if he's even around. I noticed "I am the 53%" thing and the message seems to be that those people think they're part of people who pay all the taxes. Surely that's not mistaken for this:

https://money.cnn.com/2011/04/14/pf/taxes/who_pays_income_taxes/index.htm

It seems to me that that 45-47% number of people who "don't pay taxes" that gets bandied about is, in reality, people that don't owe taxes at the end of the year because, well, taxes have already been taken out. I've never owed a single dollar come tax season ever, does that make me not one of these exclusive 53% even though I get taxes a good $400 every paycheck?

No, it means that 53% of people don't pay any federal income tax. anything taken out would be state tax, SS&medicare tax (at a lower proportion than the rich), etc. obviously everybody pays sales tax. The figure is solely regarding federal income tax.

I don't think you understand. The 53% are boasting that they pay the federal income tax for the other 47% who "do not". What they're referring to is the percentage of people who don't owe federal income tax come tax time. The fact that you owe or don't owe money come tax time doesn't come down to being a freeloader or anything it comes down to how wisely/lawful you've been spending your income. Most everyone pays income tax so that 53% is much, much higher and hovering in the 90s somewhere.

orcus116 · « **Reply #518 on:** October 14, 2011, 07:11:32 PM »

Quote from: Scheavo on October 14, 2011, 07:05:05 PM

I hope this guy faces a medical emergency soon, lives, then realizes how the real world works and finds himself in debt and enslaved to a system he doesn't have a say in.

At least he knows financially responsibility, something I firmly believe I can not say for most of the people slumming it down around Wall Street. Plus that doesn't sound like something that wouldn't have a good grip on health insurance.

antigoon · « **Reply #519 on:** October 14, 2011, 07:43:41 PM »

The wackos on both sides need to realize this and come together under this common goal. I know politicians and the media want us to think otherwise, but we're not that different.

orcus116 · « **Reply #520 on:** October 14, 2011, 07:45:08 PM »

I think the way the Tea Party people are reacting goes to show that they're clearly more about their image than their message.

Scheavo · « **Reply #521 on:** October 14, 2011, 08:13:19 PM »

Quote from: orcus116 on October 14, 2011, 07:11:32 PM

Quote from: Scheavo on October 14, 2011, 07:05:05 PM
I hope this guy faces a medical emergency soon, lives, then realizes how the real world works and finds himself in debt and enslaved to a system he doesn't have a say in.

At least he knows financially responsibility, something I firmly believe I can not say for most of the people slumming it down around Wall Street. Plus that doesn't sound like something that wouldn't have a good grip on health insurance.

Financial responsibility is meaningless if you can't find a job, aren't healthy and can't afford to get healthy, and a host of other problems .

Plus, even having health insurance doesn't protect you. He could have a "great" plan, then find he still owes thousands, if not more. Maybe he can't afford the new premiums for his coverage, maybe his insurance company will find a way to drop him, screwing him in the process.

orcus116 · « **Reply #522 on:** October 14, 2011, 08:22:53 PM »

No, financial responsibility means that before you get into a particular situation you're fully aware of what it will cost and when it will need to be paid (student loans, credit cards) you have a means to pay them off. Can't find a job? That's utter bullshit because while I didn't get the engineering job I spent 5 years earning a degree for I spent 8 months moving tables and chairs in a banquet hall with bosses who looked down on me earning and saving enough to pay back my minimums on all my loans. Those types of jobs are available, it's just that most people are holding out for that dream job they went to school for and shun everything else before they get into trouble and realize that maybe they should've been doing something to get money before going completely broke.

Riceball · « **Reply #523 on:** October 14, 2011, 09:34:20 PM »

I guess the thing that is getting a bit worrying for me is that this whole Occupy Wall St phenomenon is starting to look a lot like class warfare - its all words at the moment, but if left unchecked I can see it stepping up a bit. Which, given the shittiness of politics in the US right now, is probably not a great thing.

Students of history! Is this what happened in Germany in the 20s/30s? I've done German history at high school level, but I don't remember exactly what the pre-conditions were for Hitler's rise. I'm not saying anything that extreme will happen in 21st century USA, but this kind of social environment could be quite easily classified as a pre-condition for historical change.

Feel free to disregard, I'm just trying to avoid writing my thesis

Super Dude · « **Reply #524 on:** October 14, 2011, 10:10:03 PM »

Quote from: antigoon on October 14, 2011, 07:43:41 PM

The wackos on both sides need to realize this and come together under this common goal. I know politicians and the media want us to think otherwise, but we're not that different.

Maybe it's my partisan views talking, but I have to disagree with the first part of that. I honestly have no problem with big government, at all, really.

News: Fall Into the Light, official video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFxH4kky6z4

Author Topic: Wall Street Protests (Read 74543 times)