Wall Street Protests

[Perpetual Change]

Why has like nothing been in the news about these? I check the NYTimes and NPR homepage at least once per day usually, but I've seen nothing on either site about it, which is incredibly shameful since the New York times is supposed to have some kind of handle on what's going on in New York. Yet on facebook and reddit people have been writing about this stuff for days...

Apparently, a group of protesters have been outside Wall Street for like a week? And they're pretty large in number? And the cops have been picking people at random and arresting them for no reason? And it's being completely blacked out by the media?

Anyone know, or have an opinion, about what's going on with this stuff?

[antigoon]

Must be that liberal bias, right?

Last I checked the Times and NPR had run fairly dismissive pieces on it. I wouldn't call it a media blackout... It's starting to become un-ignorable.  Glenn Greenwald from Salon has a great article explaining it.  https://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/09/28/protests/index.html

I'd be down there if I had the time.

[Perpetual Change]

You gotta wonder, if these were tea party members, half the place would be crawling with journalists.

[antigoon]

Of course it would be. And it's not that hard to understand why.

[Perpetual Change]

Good article, Joeman.

Yeah, I had forgotten how dismissing the left is of itself when a democrat is being manipulated by goldman president.

[antigoon]

I remember every time my "college democrat" friends paint me out to be this idealistic know-nothing whenever I criticize the president. It's like, can't we just elect a Republican so we can get along again?

[orcus116]

So are these a group of legitimate protesters or just a bunch of rich ex-suburban white kids who need to protest something in order to feel good about themselves?

[Perpetual Change]

So are these a group of legitimate protesters or just a bunch of rich ex-suburban white kids who need to protest something in order to feel good about themselves?

Well it's not the tea-party, if that's what you mean by "legitimate". It's just a group of people who've been protesting Wall Street and have been camped out there for over one week, steadily growing in number.

Regardless of snobbery that exists in the "liberal media", you'd think it at least get covered.

[MetalMike06]

NYTimes and NPR homepage

That's why, IMO. I don't think they're explicitly "liberal". They're just pretty establishmentarian sources.

[antigoon]

So are these a group of legitimate protesters or just a bunch of rich ex-suburban white kids who need to protest something in order to feel good about themselves?

What is a legitimate protester to you? 

[Chino]

I was going to make a thread on this a few days ago and totally forgot to. Over 80 people were arrested on the first day.

[orcus116]

So are these a group of legitimate protesters or just a bunch of rich ex-suburban white kids who need to protest something in order to feel good about themselves?

What is a legitimate protester to you?

Someone who knows holding signs with dumb slogans in large groups accomplishes nothing, at least in America. I can't think of a single recent example of that style of protesting that actually worked aside from that niche group of people being annoying for a few days.

[Perpetual Change]

I think smugly discounting the protesters in general is a lot less important than the more pressing matter that the event has been pretty much blacked out in the media and people are being arbitrarily arrested.

[antigoon]

So are these a group of legitimate protesters or just a bunch of rich ex-suburban white kids who need to protest something in order to feel good about themselves?

What is a legitimate protester to you?

Someone who knows holding signs with dumb slogans in large groups accomplishes nothing, at least in America. I can't think of a single recent example of that style of protesting that actually worked aside from that niche group of people being annoying for a few days.

What should they do? Vote harder for candidates who don't give a shit? Write a letter to a Congressman who will never see it? Buy a lobbyist? Nothing?

I think the demonstrations themselves have intrinsic value.

[pogoowner]

What exactly are they protesting?

[Perpetual Change]

So are these a group of legitimate protesters or just a bunch of rich ex-suburban white kids who need to protest something in order to feel good about themselves?

What is a legitimate protester to you?

Someone who knows holding signs with dumb slogans in large groups accomplishes nothing, at least in America. I can't think of a single recent example of that style of protesting that actually worked aside from that niche group of people being annoying for a few days.

What should they do? Vote harder for candidates who don't give a shit? Write a letter to a Congressman who will never see it? Buy a lobbyist? Nothing?

I think the demonstrations themselves have intrinsic value.

Great point. The tea-party protests seem to have accomplished quite a bit in the make-up of the Republican party, fwiw.

[antigoon]

Over 700 hundred Continental and United pilots, joined by additional pilots from other Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) carriers, demonstrate in front of Wall Street on September 27, 2011 in New York City. The pilots want to draw attention to the lack of progress on negotiations of the pilots’ joint collective bargaining agreement ahead of the one-year anniversary of the corporate merger close date of United and Continental airlines.

https://photos.denverpost.com/mediacenter/2011/09/photos-airline-pilots-protest-on-wall-street-on-tuesday-september-27-2011/

[Orion1967]

Oh well thats probably why there is little media attention.  Airline pilots bitching about the lack of a settlement of a contract?  Given that a large number of americans are unemployed right now and/or are struggling to live paycheck to paycheck, the perception (I would assume) is that people are bitching about contract guarentees for an industy that (accrording to https://www.aviationinterviews.com/pilot/airlinepayrates.html pays their first year captains (United Airlines) $293,280-$357,760.00 and second year captains (Continental) $278,720-$366,080.00 (It seems that Continental has a much lower starting first year salary that ramps up exponentially in the second year).

I am not saying they are overpayed or underpayed, its just hard to get on board with thier cause when they have salaries that size.  Maybe that has something to do with the media's reporting?  The media doesnt want to do a negative spin since ariline pilots ARE a skilled profession that is neccesary so that maybe the media doesnt want to come off looking stupid and insinuating the pilots are irrellevant, NOR does the media want to come off looking like they are in support of the picketing because of the high salaries and the way that would look to your average joe scrapipng by on $40k a year?

(Not taking a stance on either side of the argument, as I have friends who are airline pilots one of which I rib constantly about being an overpayed taxi driver  )

[El Barto]

Oh well thats probably why there is little media attention.  Airline pilots bitching about the lack of a settlement of a contract?  Given that a large number of americans are unemployed right now and/or are struggling to live paycheck to paycheck, the perception (I would assume) is that people are bitching about contract guarentees for an industy that (accrording to https://www.aviationinterviews.com/pilot/airlinepayrates.html pays their first year captains (United Airlines) $293,280-$357,760.00 and second year captains (Continental) $278,720-$366,080.00 (It seems that Continental has a much lower starting first year salary that ramps up exponentially in the second year).

I am not saying they are overpayed or underpayed, its just hard to get on board with thier cause when they have salaries that size.  Maybe that has something to do with the media's reporting?  The media doesnt want to do a negative spin since ariline pilots ARE a skilled profession that is neccesary so that maybe the media doesnt want to come off looking stupid and insinuating the pilots are irrellevant, NOR does the media want to come off looking like they are in support of the picketing because of the high salaries and the way that would look to your average joe scrapipng by on $40k a year?

(Not taking a stance on either side of the argument, as I have friends who are airline pilots one of which I rib constantly about being an overpayed taxi driver  )

You don't start off a captain.  You begin as a FO, and they make shit until they get some seniority.  You also don't start off working for UA or Continental.  You begin your pro pilot career as an FO on a regional airline, and frequently it actually costs you money to get the gig.  Since the regionals know you're still trying to accumulate hours, they know you'll take any job, so they pay nada. 

I'm sure you'll love to here this, but a huge chunk of professional airline pilots actually qualify for food stamps and other handouts. 

Most pilots will tell you it's a wonderful job if you love flying (and they all do),  but a terrible career choice that they wouldn't recommend to their worst enemies. 

[Orion1967]

Oh well thats probably why there is little media attention.  Airline pilots bitching about the lack of a settlement of a contract?  Given that a large number of americans are unemployed right now and/or are struggling to live paycheck to paycheck, the perception (I would assume) is that people are bitching about contract guarentees for an industy that (accrording to https://www.aviationinterviews.com/pilot/airlinepayrates.html pays their first year captains (United Airlines) $293,280-$357,760.00 and second year captains (Continental) $278,720-$366,080.00 (It seems that Continental has a much lower starting first year salary that ramps up exponentially in the second year).

I am not saying they are overpayed or underpayed, its just hard to get on board with thier cause when they have salaries that size.  Maybe that has something to do with the media's reporting?  The media doesnt want to do a negative spin since ariline pilots ARE a skilled profession that is neccesary so that maybe the media doesnt want to come off looking stupid and insinuating the pilots are irrellevant, NOR does the media want to come off looking like they are in support of the picketing because of the high salaries and the way that would look to your average joe scrapipng by on $40k a year?

(Not taking a stance on either side of the argument, as I have friends who are airline pilots one of which I rib constantly about being an overpayed taxi driver  )

You don't start off a captain.  You begin as a FO, and they make shit until they get some seniority.  You also don't start off working for UA or Continental.  You begin your pro pilot career as an FO on a regional airline, and frequently it actually costs you money to get the gig.  Since the regionals know you're still trying to accumulate hours, they know you'll take any job, so they pay nada. 

I'm sure you'll love to here this, but a huge chunk of professional airline pilots actually qualify for food stamps and other handouts. 

Most pilots will tell you it's a wonderful job if you love flying (and they all do),  but a terrible career choice that they wouldn't recommend to their worst enemies.

Yeah thats the take I get usually from my bud, (He's a captain for American Airlines) and makes the transatlantic flight for them chicago>London>and ultimately to Japan and then back.   Makes the round trip flight I think about 5 or 6 times a month.  He has been with them for about 8 or 9 years now and makes some pretty serious scratch (hence my haggling of him)

I don't disagree with your assessment though... if you look at that website I linked, the FO's get paid pretty low comparably.

[antigoon]

"A Massive Union Just Voted To Side With The Wall Street Protesters"

According to Daily Kos, The New York Transit Workers Union (TWU) voted to support the Wall Street Protestors at their meeting last night.
A member of TWU Local 100 told a reporter that they would join the protest Friday at 4PM.
Here's more about them from their website:
The TWU has four main divisions: Railroad; Gaming; Airline; Transit; and Utility, University and Service. The Union has 114 autonomous locals representing over 200,000 members and retirees in 22 states around the country.
Occupy Wall Street has been picking up some decent support from unions in the past few days. Yesterday we reported that the Teamsters Union declared their support for protestors, and we also found out that the United Pilots Union had members at the protest demonstrating in uniform.

Read more: https://www.businessinsider.com/a-massive-union-just-voted-to-side-with-the-wall-street-protesters-2011-9#ixzz1ZMmTFQgj

[Chino]

Sorry I don't understand whats going one here in great detail. Why are they protesting on Wall Street, and why are the NYTWU going to join in the same location? Is it just to get the message out that they are pissed, or does it actually have to do with business on Wall Street?

[orcus116]

They're protesting on Wall Street because of the recession, economy and subsequent job loss though they're a good three years late. I don't think they're actually going to accomplish anything aside being a public nuisance because Wall Street is gonna go on business as usual.

[AcidLameLTE]

The amount of money you have to sink into becoming a pilot is ridiculous. I would be pretty pissed if I wasn't getting a decent salary after spending £96,000 on an 18 month course and then another £20,000 on training for a specific plane.

[El Barto]

The amount of money you have to sink into becoming a pilot is ridiculous. I would be pretty pissed if I wasn't getting a decent salary after spending £96,000 on an 18 month course and then another £20,000 on training for a specific plane.

The problem is that after all of that, you still need a ton of flight hours.  Airlines of all sizes know that you're desperate to get those, so frequently they'll pay you nearly zero.  Making $20 an hour flying right-seat in a CRJ is just another part of the investment. 

Something else to consider is that airline pilots are hourly employees.  They use a bidding system based on seniority to determine who gets what routes.  So,  some noob with Delta is going to get stuck with the 4 flights per day between Iowa and Oklahoma route, and only get paid for the 1.5 hours per leg.  Really a pretty poor living for most of the younger ones.  The older guys who've been around for decades get to make the big bucks flying between NYC and Nice France, with 2 or 3 days down time in France between trips.  That's a damn fine living,  but it took a while to get there. 

This is also having a dramatic effect on airline safety, but that's a whole different discussion. 

[73109]

I asked my mom if we could stop by Wall Street when we head into NY on Saturday. She said no.

I dig what these dudes are doing.

[MasterShakezula]

I dig what these dudes are doing.

Yes.

They picked the right people to protest.

[El Barto]

I asked my mom if we could stop by Wall Street when we head into NY on Saturday. She said no.

I dig what these dudes are doing.

Go anyway.  Why are you going to let her tell you what to do?

[antigoon]

I'm going tomorrow with my cousin. Should be interesting.

[73109]

I asked my mom if we could stop by Wall Street when we head into NY on Saturday. She said no.

I dig what these dudes are doing.

Go anyway.  Why are you going to let her tell you what to do?

She is kinda my ride through NY. Kinda hard to be all, "Fuck you mom! I'm going anyway...pick me up in an hour?"

I'm going tomorrow with my cousin. Should be interesting.

If I was going, I'd say you could meet little miss failure in person!

[orcus116]

I have a job site near Wall Street for next week. I should pack pepper spray in my field bag.

[antigoon]

So I just got back. It was interesting to see for myself what was going on. There were a TON of people and a TON of police (all of whom were very respectful in their requests to keep traffic moving on the sidewalks). It doesn't seem like it's going to be over soon.

[zepp-head]

So are these a group of legitimate protesters or just a bunch of rich ex-suburban white kids who need to protest something in order to feel good about themselves?

Well, if this is the mentality: https://www.benzinga.com/news/11/09/1957090/occupy-wall-street-rise-up-and-burn-this-system-to-the-ground

I would guess the latter option.

[orcus116]

My biggest problem is this quote:

This is war, friends. The wealthy will not give up their ill-gotten gains without a fight. They will use the police as their attack force and they will use threats of violence and acts of retribution against you. Some will be arrested. But you cannot arrest a movement, and you cannot stop an idea whose time has come.

That is the voice of a person who has never had to work to accomplish anything in their life and is looking for something/someone to blame it on. These protesters aren't the oppressed they so desperately want to represent. These people actually have no idea who they are aside from a bunch of college students who found out they picked a shitty major that doesn't actually lead to a career.

[Perpetual Change]

That's outrageous and condescending. These people are mad that the government is spending trillions bailing out banks. Personally insult the protesters if you want, but that doesn't invalidate the problem being pointed out.