Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rogue One

[Zantera]

Yeah, there's really no memorable characters at all. They're all so generic, and they don't stand out.

[jammindude]

One thing I like about the Plinkett reviews is that he completely destroys the prequels with laying out facts about why they fail, and yet he doesn't really even mention Jar Jar Binks. It's one silly character in the prequels, but he is not the reason why the prequels are awful. There's so many bigger problems with those movies, that I don't see why so many people focus their hate on one character.

That was truly a defining moment for me as well.   I had been a defender of the prequels up until that point.   This was exactly where I stopped to think, realized he was right on the money, and was forced to admit that it was not just nostalgia that made the OT better.   

[The Dark Master]

The true brilliance of the Plinket reviews is that rather then focus on the aspects of the prequels that the fanboys like to bitch about (like Jar Jar), they actually take apart the films as films and focus on things like character development, pacing, editing, cinematography, and so on to explain why so many people felt such an emotional disconnection with those films.  Granted, Plinket does nitpick the story a lot, but that was really done to show how rushed and sloppy the script was, and, by extrapolation, to assert the premise that Lucas made the films not because he actually had a story he wanted to tell, but as an excuse to sell more toys.

Not that I have a problem with movies that are toy commercials on principle; I love the 1986 Transformers film, and that was a blatant toy commercial.  However, at least the '86 Transformers movie didn't bore me with long stretches of insufferable political meandering and a poorly executed "tragic fall of a hero" story arc.  Hot Rod goes through the standard "hero's journey" in less then 90 minutes; there was no reason for me to suffer through Anakin just getting more and more angsty over the course of 3 films, each over two hours long!

And that actually brings up something else.  Did you ever notice that Jar Jar is the only character in The Phantom Menace to actually have a story arc?  He starts out as a bumbling fuck-up who annoys everyone around him (including the audience), yet by the end of the film he's a general and war hero.  All the other characters are just stagnant and lifeless, with little emotion and lacking motivations for us to care about their struggles. 

That's also why Palpatine's character got so much praise in Revenge Of The Sith.  He was the only character in the entire trilogy to have a clear goal that he was working towards.  Combined with how poorly written all the other characters were, seeing Palpatine working towards creating the Empire actually made me care a little, while the deaths and suffering of all the other characters just evoked indifference.

[Kotowboy]

First time i've heard that Episode II is a ..ahem...clone of Empire Strikes Back.


And Hot Rod is an amazing film. So so funny.

[hefdaddy42]

[Jaq]

 

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

 

[Super Dude]

A friend showed that to me on FB a few days ago, but my God, that last bit never stops being funny. And unsettling.

[Accelerando]

 

[faizoff]

Anyone here subscribe to Honest Trailers? I personally think they're all hilarious and have seen them all. Their latest one is on Attack of The Clones and is really funny, check them all out if you haven't already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nJS-LPcFfw

[Accelerando]

I died with "Laurence Fishbourne" 

[Xanthul]

I just spent 40 minutes watching honest trailers, and all I can say is that I have stopped because I'm late for work. Great channel.

[Accelerando]

So apparently Denis Lawson was approached by JJ Abrams about reprising his role of Wedge Antilles...and the British actor, who is Ewan McGregor's uncle by the way (never knew that!), said no because it would bore him 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/13/wedge-antilles-star-wars-episode-vii_n_5315402.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

We spent the better part of two years waiting to see if Princess Leia, Han Solo and Luke Skywalker would star in "Episode VII," but it turns out J.J. Abrams attempted to tap into the much deeper well of characters from the original "Star Wars" trilogy. Denis Lawson played top-notch Rebel Alliance pilot Wedge Antilles, and this weekend he revealed that Abrams approached him about reprising the role in the forthcoming movie.

"I’m not going to do that," Lawson told The Courier in the U.K. while promoting "The Machine." "They asked me, but it just would have bored me."

Tough break, J.J. Abrams. Of course, there's no indication of how significant Wedge Antilles' role would have been in "Episode VII." Despite being a minor character in the original trilogy, he remains a beloved "Star Wars" figure, having saved Luke's life during the Battle of Yavin in "A New Hope" and led the fighter attack on the Death Star in "Return of the Jedi."

Coincidentally enough, Lawson's nephew is Ewan McGregor, who played Obi-Wan Kenobi in the prequel trilogy. Still, the family ties, not to mention a film on which George Lucas serves as a creative consultant, weren't enough to lure the actor back. Since "Star Wars," Lawson has starred mostly on British programs, including the BBC's 2005 "Bleak House" miniseries and alongside Ben Whishaw in the miniseries "Criminal Justice."

Shame. I love me some Wedge. Maybe he was concerned his role wouldn't be bigger than it was with the original three? It looks like he's had a successful career with BBC programs.

[Super Dude]

Or maybe he, like Alec Guinness, wanted to distance himself from Star Wars.

[BlobVanDam]

Oh, I didn't even read the story, because I assumed the Wedge Antilles thing was a joke.

[Super Dude]

Neither did I; I'm just guessing.

[Accelerando]

I would've been all about Wedge coming back, as a General perhaps.

[BlobVanDam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfNiC9iKM0Q

Non CG creatures?! This excites me! It's already better than the prequels.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, the lack of practical effects in the prequels was definitely an additional problem.

[BlobVanDam]

The prequels used CG often for the sake of pushing the technology, rather than used to push the story telling, which is why it suffered so much.

It's a good sign that they're trying to recapture the feel of the OT, and putting more faith in practical effects. It shows that they're putting in the time and effort to do it right. Even just that brief glimpse of what is likely a background character shows ingenuity and charm that was sorely lacking from the prequels.

Of course I'm all for CG, but with today's technology, they'd be capable of better practical effects and animatronics than ever before, and it's becoming a rarer artform these days, which could really set apart the look of this movie.

[hefdaddy42]

I agree.

[Zantera]

A problem with the prequels was the whole "everything will lead into the original trilogy". It wasn't just how Anakin became Darth Vader, but there was so much focus on how the world/universe ended up the way it was in the original trilogy, that they forgot to write a good plot and good characters. With the new movies, while there are connections to the past, it will be easier to write a focused story and new good characters without having to worry about connecting them to something that happens later down the time line.

And besides, I think it's good that Disney have their hands on this.

[Mister Gold]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfNiC9iKM0Q

Non CG creatures?! This excites me! It's already better than the prequels.

I got chills watching that! Very excited for this film!

[Super Dude]

By the way, I love the awkward look JJ gives the alien character.

[Phoenix87x]

I showed that clip to my cousin this morning. He grew up on the pre-quel trilogy and His head almost exploded. He just couldn't deal with experiencing quality.

Back me up on this George,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVq5QwMlaII

[Kotowboy]

Wait.......





Was that video implying that 2001 is shit ?!


 




It reminds me of that video where George Lucas basically says " Anyone that takes a piece of art and messes with it is an idiot " or something like that.

Obviously before the "Special Editions".

[Super Dude]

Wait.......





Was that video implying that 2001 is shit ?!


 




It reminds me of that video where George Lucas basically says " Anyone that takes a piece of art and messes with it is an idiot " or something like that.

Obviously before the "Special Editions".

Yeah, seriously. As one of the commenters pointed out, Hollywood used to hate him for how he defied the traditional moviemaking ethos to remain true to his own indie spirit. You just gotta wonder what happened to make him this giant hypocrite.

[ReaPsTA]

Something I guess I'm just not getting - Am I the only person who hates JJ Abrams?  I just don't think he's good at making movies.  The Star Trek reboot is one of my least favorite movies ever.  It's not that I have anything against reboots (BSG is my favorite TV show and a reboot), but the movie didn't work on its own merits.  Super 8 had great acting, but the tone was really inconsistent and the ending was horrible.

I expect the new Star Wars movie to at least be competent.  The fiscal potential and prestige of the franchise are too important for anything overtly ridiculous to be allowed.  There probably won't be any obnoxious lens flares.  And the ending probably had real through put into it.

But what has JJ Abrams done to make people believe he can actually make a good movie?  To me, at least Michael Bay is unapologetic about making shlock..  JJ Abrams makes shlock and pretends that it's meaningful sci-fi.

[Super Dude]

It's a few things for me:

1. Except for Michael Bay, anyone would be better than Lucas, sadly.
2. Maybe this isn't a firm basis on which to place my faith in JJ, but he's very clearly dedicated to the project. There may have been many directors who were more qualified than him to undertake the project, sure, but JJ is a Star Wars fan. It's sorta like how you don't want someone selling a product when they don't believe in it. At least you can be sure that he's going to try his best, as a fan, to create the kind of movie he'd want to watch.
3. If nothing else, Disney hand-picked him. They're basically our media overlords, so of course they're going to want to get this right. They chose him because they thought he could pull it off, and if he doesn't, they'll do something about it. I dunno what, but hey, they're Disney.

Also ending aside, I actually liked Super 8. Just the ending wasn't enough to put me off the movie as a whole.

[Zantera]

I would say I like JJ. He's not one of my favorite directors, but he hasn't made THAT many movies yet. I would say Mission Impossible 3 is really good, and in terms of the Star Trek movies and Super 8, the direction in those movies is not the problem. A lot of people bash on Into Darkness, and I've also seen people bash Super 8, but the faults of those problems is not with the direction.

JJ seems really passionate about this project, and I believe the best person to helm a project like Star Wars is someone who is a fan themselves, and who is really excited and passionate about it.

[zepp-head]

Yeah, the lack of practical effects in the prequels was definitely an additional problem.

Actually the prequels most likely used more practical sets/effects than the original trilogy.  Take a gander if you like.  I have a hard time believing the crew when they say that Episode VII will feature less CGI, probably just to appease some people more than anything.

https://boards.theforce.net/threads/practical-effects-in-the-prequels-sets-pictures-models-etc.50017310/

Wait.......





Was that video implying that 2001 is shit ?!


 




It reminds me of that video where George Lucas basically says " Anyone that takes a piece of art and messes with it is an idiot " or something like that.

Obviously before the "Special Editions".

What video is this?

[The Dark Master]

Yeah, the lack of practical effects in the prequels was definitely an additional problem.

Actually the prequels most likely used more practical sets/effects than the original trilogy.  Take a gander if you like.  I have a hard time believing the crew when they say that Episode VII will feature less CGI, probably just to appease some people more than anything.

https://boards.theforce.net/threads/practical-effects-in-the-prequels-sets-pictures-models-etc.50017310/

You can argue that the sheer amount of practical effects used in the prequels was more just because those movies had what was an effectively unlimited budget, but considering that the "CGI" in the OT was pretty much limited to lightsaber/blaster beams and the Emperor's force lightning, I'm certain that the special effects used in the OT still had a much higher percentage of practical effects.

[zepp-head]

Right, there wasn't a lot of CG in the originals, but those were some of the first examples of CG use in film as well, with the Death Star plan readout, as well as the map of Endor/Death Star II in ROTJ.

They were still experimenting with new technology, as evidenced with the blue screen shots from the originals.

Still, most of those pictures are pretty eye-opening.  A lot of locations and effects that people assumed to be CG are actually really creative miniatures and practical sets. 

[Kotowboy]

Yeah, the lack of practical effects in the prequels was definitely an additional problem.

Actually the prequels most likely used more practical sets/effects than the original trilogy.  Take a gander if you like.  I have a hard time believing the crew when they say that Episode VII will feature less CGI, probably just to appease some people more than anything.

https://boards.theforce.net/threads/practical-effects-in-the-prequels-sets-pictures-models-etc.50017310/

Wait.......





Was that video implying that 2001 is shit ?!


 




It reminds me of that video where George Lucas basically says " Anyone that takes a piece of art and messes with it is an idiot " or something like that.

Obviously before the "Special Editions".

What video is this?

It's a video or article about George Lucas saying people who "update" or try to "change " a piece of art are basically butchers.

I just can't find it now. But it definitely exists.

[Kotowboy]

EDIT :

I googled it and found this : https://pressstart2begin.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/george-lucas-barbarians-quote.jpg?w=593

So i'm not making it up.