Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rogue One

[zepp-head]

A million times this.

[bosk1]

I ordered this book: https://www.amazon.com/The-Star-Wars-Heresies-Interpreting/dp/0786471816/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393461948&sr=8-1&keywords=star+wars+heresies

I read the description.  Hilarious seeing the prequels associated with terms like "analytical," "worthy of scholarly study," and "human drama."    I guess this guy didn't actually see the films. 

[zepp-head]

I ordered this book: https://www.amazon.com/The-Star-Wars-Heresies-Interpreting/dp/0786471816/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393461948&sr=8-1&keywords=star+wars+heresies

I read the description.  Hilarious seeing the prequels associated with terms like "analytical," "worthy of scholarly study," and "human drama."    I guess this guy didn't actually see the films.

Is it lonely up there on your pedestal? 

[Kotowboy]

I'm all for this - but...Attack Of The Clones better than Empire Strikes Back...

[zepp-head]

So what?  Still trying to figure out why someone having a differing opinion is so grating to some people.  I like Empire more too, but who cares.

I saved part of a discussion on AICN of all places, where there is a bunch of nonsense, but every once in a while a beacon of hope.  This is one of those:

"Because if a person loves something I hate, at least he is looking to add to his life. If he hates something I love, it's as if he is incapable of understanding how it brings me joy. That's like a roadblock between the two of us. I'd venture that's why some people are reacting so harshly to VM in this thread. The way he's responding is not just to say he didn't enjoy the film. It's to say enjoyment of the film shouldn't be possible. That statement is normative and hurtful to people who deviate from its norms"

Which was in response to one of the previously mentioned piles of nonsense, which is the mindset of many forum-goers:

"The film doesn't deserve to have anyone like it, that's the problem. It was an objectively lazy, shoddily created film that doesn't deserve anyone's praise or admiration. Film (and art in general) have objective, qualitative measures, as you know. The subjective nature of art you hear thrown around all the time is just silly, naive, nonsensical fuckpoop. The subjectivity lies in the individual's mind, not the art itself. Anywho, this film, objectively, does not pass the most generous of tests. That is why I hate it and hate the people who "enjoy" it. They are wrong. Plain and simple. And that's OK. For I am hear to educate : ) I feel compelled to correct them. I am one of the Enlightened Ones. I simply want to pass on my knowledge and expertise. Like a kid who keeps failing the same test over and over again. He's struggling. Thus, I feel bad for the little chap and I want to help him out. I'm the professor who comes in and tries to assist, give him pointers and such, so that one day, he may pass the test on his own. One day, I will teach everyone to view film the RIGHT WAY and all the stupidity and poor taste will be cleansed from the earth.

It's all for the greater good, man : )"

And no, the poster was not being sarcastic.  Kudos if you can guess the film they were discussing.

[Kotowboy]

Len Wiseman's Total Recall remake ?


Zack Snyder's Watchmen ?

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

What do you mean ?

[zepp-head]

Len Wiseman's Total Recall remake ?


Zack Snyder's Watchmen ?

X-Men: First Class

[Super Dude]

I ordered this book: https://www.amazon.com/The-Star-Wars-Heresies-Interpreting/dp/0786471816/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393461948&sr=8-1&keywords=star+wars+heresies

I read the description.  Hilarious seeing the prequels associated with terms like "analytical," "worthy of scholarly study," and "human drama."    I guess this guy didn't actually see the films.

Is it lonely up there on your pedestal? 

Probably not, considering how many of us agree.

[zepp-head]

You guys make it so hard to find a middle ground.  I'm sorry you couldn't find enjoyment in it.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Everyone has their opinions, likes and dislikes.  If I was a betting man, I'd bet that pretty much everyone on the "Majority view" side of this, has a "Minority view" on something else in their lives.  I'm sure they feel as justified in that view, as we do with ours on SW's.  Some of the arguments from the "Majority" kind of puzzle me.  I hear how bad the script writing and acting is in the prequels.  I mean...really?  The acting and writing in the original trilogy was better?   Or how the CGI is just over the top.  Well, when the originals came out, cutting edge special effects of that time period were used also.  Some folks probably thought it was too much at that time too.  We can argue back and forth...it's like politics, I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change mine.  I enjoyed them ALL, and I'll probably enjoy the next 3 

[Super Dude]

If there's anything The Star Wars comics have taught me, it's that execution is important, but no amount of executive genius can substitute for a good story.

[CrimsonSunrise]

If there's anything The Star Wars comics have taught me, it's that execution is important, but no amount of executive genius can substitute for a good story.

I agree.  I think all the movies were good stories.  Great stories?  Not really, IMHO.    In comparison I think SW's books, including episodes 4-6, are lacking when put next to other Science Fiction works.  As far as the movies? I enjoy them all because they're entertaining.    Funny.... on the flip side, some of the greatest books in Sci-Fi  like "Dune", and "I, Robot" weren't done as well on the big screen as I would have thought.  When I look at it from that perspective, I really can't complain too much about the SW movies.

[Implode]

That's because Star Wars was a movie first. Dune and I, Robot were books first. The real outlier is TLOR trilogy where Peter Jackson took good althrough arguably exhausting material and transformed it into an incredibly well made epic action saga.

[Tom Bombadil]

That's because Star Wars was a movie first. Dune and I, Robot were books first.

Agreed. When a movie is based off a book, the book is almost always better, but when a book is based off a movie, usually the movie is better. That's because there are just certain elements of writing that you can't capture in a film, and vice versa. LOTR is probably one of the best adaptations out there, but it still doesn't touch greatness of the book (maybe because a certain character is missing  )

[CrimsonSunrise]

That's because Star Wars was a movie first. Dune and I, Robot were books first. The real outlier is TLOR trilogy where Peter Jackson took good althrough arguably exhausting material and transformed it into an incredibly well made epic action saga.

Good point, I didn't think about that fact about the 6 movie stories being originally films before they were books.  It does make a difference.

[The King in Crimson]

That's because Star Wars was a movie first. Dune and I, Robot were books first.

Agreed. When a movie is based off a book, the book is almost always better, but when a book is based off a movie, usually the movie is better. That's because there are just certain elements of writing that you can't capture in a film, and vice versa. LOTR is probably one of the best adaptations out there, but it still doesn't touch greatness of the book (maybe because a certain character is missing  )

Erkenbrand?

[Super Dude]

If there's anything The Star Wars comics have taught me, it's that execution is important, but no amount of executive genius can substitute for a good story.

I agree.  I think all the movies were good stories.  Great stories?  Not really, IMHO.    In comparison I think SW's books, including episodes 4-6, are lacking when put next to other Science Fiction works.  As far as the movies? I enjoy them all because they're entertaining.    Funny.... on the flip side, some of the greatest books in Sci-Fi  like "Dune", and "I, Robot" weren't done as well on the big screen as I would have thought.  When I look at it from that perspective, I really can't complain too much about the SW movies.

Funny you should agree with me, because the way The Star Wars comics revealed that to me is by the fact that the Prequel Trilogy is just those original drafts recycled!

[CrimsonSunrise]

Funny you should agree with me, because the way The Star Wars comics revealed that to me is by the fact that the Prequel Trilogy is just those original drafts recycled!

Not sure what you're talking about?  Never read any of the comics.  I've read at least 120 of the SW books though.  I was agreeing with your statement of  "no amount of executive genius can substitute for a good story" 

[King Postwhore]

I'm all for this - but...Attack Of The Clones better than Empire Strikes Back...

How did I miss this?!  Kotowboy, that is a hell no!

[Kotowboy]

I agree ! The worst of the prequels better than the best of the sequels ?

Each to their own and all that

[King Postwhore]

Get a thermometer and check for a fever.  Stat.

[The King in Crimson]

I agree ! The worst of the prequels better than the best of the sequels ?

Each to their own and all that

Man, I'll take Attack of the Clones over the Phantom Menace any day of the week.

But I'm weird like that. I just hate TPM.

[Super Dude]

Funny you should agree with me, because the way The Star Wars comics revealed that to me is by the fact that the Prequel Trilogy is just those original drafts recycled!

Not sure what you're talking about?  Never read any of the comics.  I've read at least 120 of the SW books though.  I was agreeing with your statement of  "no amount of executive genius can substitute for a good story"

The recent "The Star Wars" comics are adaptations of George Lucas's original 1974 screenplays, and are essentially OT characters with PT plot events.

[hefdaddy42]

I would really love to see Topher Grace's prequels edit.

[Cool Chris]

The recent "The Star Wars" comics are adaptations of George Lucas's original 1974 screenplays, and are essentially OT characters with PT plot events.

If these are the drafts of the screenplays I have, they don't really have anything to do with PT plot events.

[zepp-head]

Everyone has their opinions, likes and dislikes.  If I was a betting man, I'd bet that pretty much everyone on the "Majority view" side of this, has a "Minority view" on something else in their lives.  I'm sure they feel as justified in that view, as we do with ours on SW's.  Some of the arguments from the "Majority" kind of puzzle me.  I hear how bad the script writing and acting is in the prequels.  I mean...really?  The acting and writing in the original trilogy was better?   Or how the CGI is just over the top.  Well, when the originals came out, cutting edge special effects of that time period were used also.  Some folks probably thought it was too much at that time too.  We can argue back and forth...it's like politics, I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change mine.  I enjoyed them ALL, and I'll probably enjoy the next 3 

This is great.

As far as the comics, "The Star Wars", yeah they are based on original SW drafts.  In some cases it is really clear why they were drafts, but there are a couple cool things in there.  I don't really see a lot of prequel events in there, really just leftover names from the original SW drafts that didn't get used until the prequels.

[Super Dude]

Filming begins in May. Episode VII hits theaters December 18th, 2015.

[zepp-head]

Set 30 years after Episode VI.

Also, The Clone Wars featured a Yoda arc with Liam Neeson as the bodiless Qui-Gon Jinn.  The Liam Neeson episode was brilliant and helps fill at least some of the void left over from his scene never being shot for Episode III that caused so much misunderstanding among the passive fans.

[Orbert]

Can you elaborate on that a bit?  I've never seen The Clone Wars and likely never will.  I thought Yoda's near-throwaway line in Episode III about how Qui-Gon had contacted him was kinda cool, but also pretty lame if that was all we were going to get as far as an explanation of how Obi-Wan eventually became a "force ghost" in Episodes IV through VI.

So Qui-Gon figured it out, came back and told Yoda how it works, and Yoda in turn taught Obi-Wan?  And that's how Obi-Wan became "more powerful than you could possible imagine"?

[bosk1]

Well, that's close enough considering you are obviously only a "passive fan." 

[Orbert]

I do consider myself only somewhere above the level of casual fan.  Yes, I've seen all the movies, but couldn't get through any of the TV cartoons and never saw the animated feature.  The books?  Please.

I thought that Obi-Wan becoming "more powerful than you could possibly imagine" was a huge missed opportunity (it's not like it turned out to make much difference in Episodes V and VI), and had actually forgotten about it until Yoda mentioned it at the end of Episode III.  Then I realized that that was it; that was all we were going to get.  So I'm curious if there's actually more.  Sounds like there isn't.

[BlobVanDam]

Here's the summary of news-
https://badassdigest.com/2014/03/16/this-is-everything-we-officially-know-about-star-wars-episode-vii/

[zepp-head]

Well, that's close enough considering you are obviously only a "passive fan."

Give me a break.  It wasn't an insult.

Can you elaborate on that a bit?  I've never seen The Clone Wars and likely never will.  I thought Yoda's near-throwaway line in Episode III about how Qui-Gon had contacted him was kinda cool, but also pretty lame if that was all we were going to get as far as an explanation of how Obi-Wan eventually became a "force ghost" in Episodes IV through VI.

So Qui-Gon figured it out, came back and told Yoda how it works, and Yoda in turn taught Obi-Wan?  And that's how Obi-Wan became "more powerful than you could possible imagine"?

Qui-Gon had a voice only scene in Episode III that was tragically never shot.  It was in the screeenplay, the book, you name it, but I guess Neeson was not available at the time.

When you see Yoda meditating on Polis Massa when he is interrupted by Bail, this is what is happening.  Qui-Gon hasn't taken it to the full ghost stage yet, but he is the first Jedi that has learned to retain consciousness after death (you can hear him briefly in Episode II as well).  If you look deep enough to see what is different about Qui-Gon than the rest of the Jedi of this age, you may have pieced this together already, but regardless, Qui-Gon reveals that the Jedi of the time had it wrong. 

It is through compassion, the release of self, not the exaltation of self that can give one eternal consciousness.  It is what the Sith have always wanted, and this is why they will never have it.  Love is the answer to the darkness.

So, in short: compassion, live in the moment, concentrate on the living force.  This is passed onto Yoda and Obi-Wan, who take it a step further.

[bosk1]

The unfortunate thing is that that is a fairly good idea, but as with so many other things in the movie, it was grossly mishandled to the point that it almost felt insignificant.