Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rogue One

[hefdaddy42]

I don't know.

Oh, and I don't care all that much.  But Lucas is definitely a dolt for not putting more thought into it.

[bosk1]

1.  Was completely unnecessary and should at the very least have been explained better. 

2.  I've always thought that was his true appearance, and he was just masking it.  As others mentioned, you can kind of see it in the holograms.  I don't think it was the force lightning that revealed it either.  I think he chose to reveal himself because, at that point, he was "out."  There was no reason to hide his appearance any longer.  But he could use the "look what the jedi did to me" to turn Anakin and the senate against the jedi and play himself as a victim.

[Vivace]

You know another thought occurred to me. According to Lucas, in the prequels the force is generally about midiclorians. And these midiclorians allow you to tap into the force like some kind of computer access. The more midiclorians you have the better access. Qui Gon didn't know (but had a feeling) that Anakin was a force user. He needed to take blood and make a positive match, therefore Lucas has established in the Prequels that a force user doesn't effect a "field", if so odds are Qui Gon would have detected Anakin miles away if Anakin isn't able to control the force. Thus Lucas establishes the only sure fire way to know is through a blood sample according to the prequels.

oh oh!

remember in the end of Star Wars, Luke is flying down the trench with Vadar on his tail. Vadar says rather causally, "The force is strong with this one?" Okay... how does he *know* that. This completely and 100% contradicts The Phantom Menace and it sets the tone that force users can sense each other through a "disturbance". Vadar had no familiarity with Luke and even moreso, Luke really didn't say anything as well when it came to sensing Vadar, probably because he doesn't know what to look for. Kinda like a master in meditation and a novice. The master says, "feel that?" and the novice goes, "feel what?".

I know I'm nitpicking, and really what difference does it make? It's just a movie, but I think this down right answers the questions with how the force works. The force is an energy field as Yoda describes, where people learn to tap into and effect that field. the universe acts upon it in a natural way but people if attuned properly can act upon it in an unnatural way and manipulate the field. How they were able to manipulate it I guess could have been explained by midiclorians but I like the idea of it being a simple field in a galaxy that is as inherent as air is to our world. But according to the end of Star Wars, a force user without familiarity or knowing the other is a force can sense a disturbance in the force to a specific point and even know what or who is effecting it. Thus, Palpatine as a Sith is a plot hole big enough for a Mack truck to drive through.

[hefdaddy42]

That's why I mostly ignore the prequels.  They screw everything up.

[gmillerdrake]

That's why I mostly ignore the prequels.  They screw everything up.

I still find it hilarious to watch the light saber "battle" between Obi Wan and Vadar in Star Wars and then compare it to the dual they had on the lava planet......they went from an epic agile and crafty battle to that tired, rigid yawnfest. Sure, Obi Wan had a plan to let Vadar "kill" him in order to ascend and all that, but it was still laughable after seeing thier previous battle. It'd be nice to attribute it to them being old if it weren't for the fact that they demonstrated with Yoda that a Jedi can 'sack up' when need be.
  At least the two duals between Luke and Vadar were somewhat better, but still then even lacked the excitement and choreography that the pre-qual saber battles had.
  I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere in this thread before so I apologize for bringing it back up.....it's still funny (and a bit disappointing) though

[bosk1]

That's why I mostly ignore the prequels.  They screw everything up.

I still find it hilarious to watch the light saber "battle" between Obi Wan and Vadar in Star Wars and then compare it to the dual they had on the lava planet......they went from an epic agile and crafty battle to that tired, rigid yawnfest. Sure, Obi Wan had a plan to let Vadar "kill" him in order to ascend and all that, but it was still laughable after seeing thier previous battle. It'd be nice to attribute it to them being old if it weren't for the fact that they demonstrated with Yoda that a Jedi can 'sack up' when need be.
  At least the two duals between Luke and Vadar were somewhat better, but still then even lacked the excitement and choreography that the pre-qual saber battles had.
  I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere in this thread before so I apologize for bringing it back up.....it's still funny (and a bit disappointing) though

Yes, but it does not appear that either Obi Wan or Vader saw the need to keep up with any sort of rigid lightsaber training regimen through the years. 

[Pols Voice]

Guys, it's Vader, not Vadar.

I feel Jedi and Sith were portrayed too much as freakishly agile supermen in the prequels, but I guess the majority of filmgoers nowadays expect in-your-face stuff. I did love the Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs. Darth Maul duel, though.

[Lynxo]

That's why I mostly ignore the prequels.  They screw everything up.

I still find it hilarious to watch the light saber "battle" between Obi Wan and Vadar in Star Wars and then compare it to the dual they had on the lava planet......they went from an epic agile and crafty battle to that tired, rigid yawnfest. Sure, Obi Wan had a plan to let Vadar "kill" him in order to ascend and all that, but it was still laughable after seeing thier previous battle. It'd be nice to attribute it to them being old if it weren't for the fact that they demonstrated with Yoda that a Jedi can 'sack up' when need be.
  At least the two duals between Luke and Vadar were somewhat better, but still then even lacked the excitement and choreography that the pre-qual saber battles had.
  I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere in this thread before so I apologize for bringing it back up.....it's still funny (and a bit disappointing) though

[chrisbDTM]

Darth Maul vs. Obi Wan and Qui Gon

the best.

[gmillerdrake]

Yes, but it does not appear that either Obi Wan or Vader saw the need to keep up with any sort of rigid lightsaber training regimen through the years.

  No kidding! Vader appears to have said 'F' it I'll just choke everyone and save some time....who knows what Obi Wan was up to?

[Ryzee]

That's why I mostly ignore the prequels.  They screw everything up.

I still find it hilarious to watch the light saber "battle" between Obi Wan and Vadar in Star Wars and then compare it to the dual they had on the lava planet......they went from an epic agile and crafty battle to that tired, rigid yawnfest. Sure, Obi Wan had a plan to let Vadar "kill" him in order to ascend and all that, but it was still laughable after seeing thier previous battle. It'd be nice to attribute it to them being old if it weren't for the fact that they demonstrated with Yoda that a Jedi can 'sack up' when need be.
  At least the two duals between Luke and Vadar were somewhat better, but still then even lacked the excitement and choreography that the pre-qual saber battles had.
  I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere in this thread before so I apologize for bringing it back up.....it's still funny (and a bit disappointing) though

Dude you've gotta turn up your volume, I think you're missing some key dialog in that scene:


Obi-Wan:  Ok so enough screwing around, you wanna start flipping our lightsabers all around and shit like last time?

Vader:  Yeah sounds good!

Obi-Wan:  Oh wait, here comes Luke- here hit me with your lightsaber real quick!

Vader:  Wha?

Obi-Wan:  Just do it dude trust me it'll be awesome!

Vader:  Whatevs...

[Pols Voice]

Vader does point out that Obi-Wan's powers are weak, so I don't have a problem with the anemic duel in ANH. Thank God Lucas didn't add a bunch of backflips and junk for the Blu Ray, but maybe he'll save it for the next release!

[hefdaddy42]

That's why I mostly ignore the prequels.  They screw everything up.

I still find it hilarious to watch the light saber "battle" between Obi Wan and Vadar in Star Wars and then compare it to the dual they had on the lava planet......they went from an epic agile and crafty battle to that tired, rigid yawnfest. Sure, Obi Wan had a plan to let Vadar "kill" him in order to ascend and all that, but it was still laughable after seeing thier previous battle. It'd be nice to attribute it to them being old if it weren't for the fact that they demonstrated with Yoda that a Jedi can 'sack up' when need be.
  At least the two duals between Luke and Vadar were somewhat better, but still then even lacked the excitement and choreography that the pre-qual saber battles had.
  I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere in this thread before so I apologize for bringing it back up.....it's still funny (and a bit disappointing) though

On the contrary, I much preferred, on the whole, the lightsaber duels in the OT.  IMO, the only good lightsaber stuff in the prequels involve Darth Maul.

[Ryzee]

Luke v. Vader I in ESB is the best them.

Although the moment in AOTC when Anakin charges at Dooku like a douche and Dooku just casually knocks him back with some Sith lightning is pretty sweet too.

[gmillerdrake]

On the contrary, I much preferred, on the whole, the lightsaber duels in the OT.  IMO, the only good lightsaber stuff in the prequels involve Darth Maul.

Really the only one that bothered me in the OT is that Vader vs. Obi Wan. It was pretty generic. I would agree with Ryzee that the battle between Luke and Vader in ESB was pretty friggin' cool....my favorite of them all I'd say.
 I suppose I just like the intensity and choreography in the NT a bit more...I liked the fight between Obi Wan and the freshly turned Vader (up until the point they were floating on lava) but the scene(s) inside the control room were cool to me.
  I enjoyed the Yoda battles as well....just because it was Yoda. Like I mentioned a page or so ago, my kids have had me looking up all the lightsaber battles on Youtube so I've watched them all a hundred times over the past few weeks.
   One thing that did stick out to me though is that when Yoda and Darth Sidious duke it out...and in the end when (as) Yoda confidently absorbs that Dark side lightning Darth Sidious's face has a look of 'Oh Sh%t'...like he knows he's beat and done for. And when Yoda soaks it all up and then releases that energy back at him and he's thrown back and essentially beaten I guess Lucas had to leave himself a way for Yoda to make his exit to exile by not giving him a chance to finish him off. Yoda believes he 'failed' and in a sense by not killing him I suppose he's right, but he 'beat' Sidious in that battle.

[snapple]

The Darth Maul lightsaber battle was fucking awesome. It involved throwing shit with the force, kicking and was graphic. It felt like a lightsaber battle.

In fact, that's one reason why I like the Phantom Menace. The entire movie lead up to that point. I felt the tension of knowing that it was coming. "Shit, they're going to have to fight this guy and he looks really mean". Then he comes out and its like "okay, here we go HOLY SHIT ITS A DOUBLE BLADED LIGHTSABER?!"

And the double lightsaber added more tension. Everyone backed off except for Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. Every knew, this guy meant business. The two sides answered the question of how he is going to handle TWO Jedi at once. Not only that, but Maul owned that battle until after Qui-Gon died. I still enjoy that scene very much. Too bad it's back dropped on the "NOW THIS IS PODRACING" bullshit and "GLABBIDY GOO! LET'S THROW DEM GOO BALLS AND DEM DWOIDS YOWZZZZZZZZZZZ"

I'm watching it again right now. Any my god is this battle amazing. They're actually trying to attack each other in it. It's probably due to the caliber of actors they had for Qui-Gon and Maul, but it's not like "LETS SWING ARE SWORDZ SO WE CAN SWINGZ THEM" It's like "fuck you, you're going to die". I mean, the guy playing Maul was actually acrobatic. He felt like a highly trained asshole who could, and does, kill people.

[Cool Chris]

And the double lightsaber added more tension. Everyone backed off except for Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. Every knew, this guy meant business.

It was pretty awesome that a group of ~20(?) armed soldiers saw this guy, and decided they didn’t stand a chance. Of course they wouldn’t have known he was a Sith, he didn’t even ignite his saber yet, but still awesome. Also great how they pause so Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon can take their robes off, like there was a little gentlemanly quality to it. I knew a lot about TPM before I saw it, so it was one big slog until it got to this part. I actually enjoyed it more the second time, since I wasn’t just waiting for Darth Maul like I was the first viewing.

It's like "fuck you, you're going to die". I mean, the guy playing Maul was actually acrobatic. He felt like a highly trained asshole who could, and does, kill people.

I think that actor was a blackbelt or some serious level of badass.

[snapple]

I mean, the guy probably had some help with movie magic, but that's okay. It felt like fucking WARRIORS fighting. Not actors swinging sticks.

In the OT, the lightsaber battles were much more noble and knight like. In TPM, the battle still had that hint of being noble, while still being badass. I think they were able to get away with it, too, because of the fact that they knew this guy would murder them all. Whereas Vader wasn't like that.

[Orbert]

It's like "fuck you, you're going to die". I mean, the guy playing Maul was actually acrobatic. He felt like a highly trained asshole who could, and does, kill people.

I think that actor was a blackbelt or some serious level of badass.

Correct.  Ray Park is a martial arts expert and also choreographed the fights. 

[blackngold29]

Now, this is podracing: https://youtu.be/VBzcdJYSf0Q

[zepp-head]

You know another thought occurred to me. According to Lucas, in the prequels the force is generally about midiclorians. And these midiclorians allow you to tap into the force like some kind of computer access. The more midiclorians you have the better access. Qui Gon didn't know (but had a feeling) that Anakin was a force user. He needed to take blood and make a positive match, therefore Lucas has established in the Prequels that a force user doesn't effect a "field", if so odds are Qui Gon would have detected Anakin miles away if Anakin isn't able to control the force. Thus Lucas establishes the only sure fire way to know is through a blood sample according to the prequels.

oh oh!

remember in the end of Star Wars, Luke is flying down the trench with Vadar on his tail. Vadar says rather causally, "The force is strong with this one?" Okay... how does he *know* that. This completely and 100% contradicts The Phantom Menace and it sets the tone that force users can sense each other through a "disturbance". Vadar had no familiarity with Luke and even moreso, Luke really didn't say anything as well when it came to sensing Vadar, probably because he doesn't know what to look for. Kinda like a master in meditation and a novice. The master says, "feel that?" and the novice goes, "feel what?".

I know I'm nitpicking, and really what difference does it make? It's just a movie, but I think this down right answers the questions with how the force works. The force is an energy field as Yoda describes, where people learn to tap into and effect that field. the universe acts upon it in a natural way but people if attuned properly can act upon it in an unnatural way and manipulate the field. How they were able to manipulate it I guess could have been explained by midiclorians but I like the idea of it being a simple field in a galaxy that is as inherent as air is to our world. But according to the end of Star Wars, a force user without familiarity or knowing the other is a force can sense a disturbance in the force to a specific point and even know what or who is effecting it. Thus, Palpatine as a Sith is a plot hole big enough for a Mack truck to drive through.

A couple things.  Firstly, the force is not all about midi-chlorians, never has been.  They are simply a means (plot device if you MUST) of identifying potential, not the Force itself.  Evidence of their presence can be found in notes predating the original film as there was always meant to be both a spiritual and scientific explanation for how the energy field exists.  There was no proper place to introduce it until a film with a symbiotic theme came to be.  A blood test is not the only way, simply a fool-proof way.  Don't forget that the Jedi of the prequels and the Jedi of the classic trilogy are purposefully VERY different, empirical instead of normative, and look for answers in different ways.  These differences on a greater level outline how and why the Jedi fell.

As far as Vader sensing Luke, there isn't really a good reason he wouldn't be able to.  Vader is the strongest force user of all time (screw the EU) and felt the Force in someone who was (potentially) very strong with it.  As far as him having no connection to Luke, this isn't particularly true.  Though they haven't met face to face, they are father and son, and there is evidence of force bonds scattered throughout the franchise.  This is a moot point though, since he shouldn't need a reason to identify another Force user.

Logic dictates that Palpatine was shielding himself from being discovered.  He was stronger than all of the Jedi at the time, save Anakin who trusted and respected him.  "The dark side of the force clouds everything".  Fortunately for Palpatine, the Jedi of the prequel era were arrogant, naive, and flawed enough to let this happen, assuming they would have seen it coming and been able to stop it all along.

[blackngold29]

https://moviepilot.com/buckets/311511-tv-pilot/containers/335280-the-live-action-star-wars-tv-show-is-called-underworld-no-lycans-involved

Back around the time when Ewan McGregor was hacking off Hayden Christensen's arms and legs, producer Rick McCallum and famed meddler George Lucas came out and explained how the rest of the Star Wars saga was going to play out. And there was us thinking that George Lucas was done ruining our collective childhoods.

You might remember a Clone Wars TV series was announced (of which there were two, equally badass) a live action comedy series (Of which Seth Green is apparently working on) and finally a live action show that promised...well, Rick and George wern't too specific on that one.

At last! Facts!

Rick McCallum has done a video interview where he explains that over fifty, one hour episodes have been written! Fifty! That's amost three seasons!

Rick also says that the show will be called  Star Wars: Underworld!

Cool! But what's it about?

"It's underneath what's going on. It's the criminals and the gangs. Like the guys who are running Wall Street, basically."

Star Wars: Underworld will focus on the adventures of Bounty Hunters (think Boba Fett), smugglers (think Han Solo) and gangsters (think Jabba The Hut). So it's a show about Han Solo and Boba Fett teaming up to fight Jabba The Hut?! Ok that was speculation, but it sounds kind of cool anyway right?

[Pols Voice]

I like that it's focusing on the seedier side of Star Wars, since I love the Cantina and Jabba's Palace. I'm going to stay cautious about getting too excited over it, though.

[Super Dude]

It's about time, they've been talking about this thing for almost a decade.

[hefdaddy42]

I'll believe it when I see it.

[Cool Chris]

Been playing through Knights of the Old Republic and that article made me think of that a bit: the Mandalorians, the Hutt and swoop gangs on Taris, the Czerka Corporation... Definitely could be more potential for intrigue than 'slave boy falls for queen/senator, turns evil, kills younglings.'

[ACID_FOX]

Sadly everyone seems to handle the SW universe better than George, especally Bioware.

[wasteland]

Have you guys already seen this? This is fucking hilarious!! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgAlQuqzl8o&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

[zepp-head]

https://moviepilot.com/buckets/311511-tv-pilot/containers/335280-the-live-action-star-wars-tv-show-is-called-underworld-no-lycans-involved

Back around the time when Ewan McGregor was hacking off Hayden Christensen's arms and legs, producer Rick McCallum and famed meddler George Lucas came out and explained how the rest of the Star Wars saga was going to play out. And there was us thinking that George Lucas was done ruining our collective childhoods.

You might remember a Clone Wars TV series was announced (of which there were two, equally badass) a live action comedy series (Of which Seth Green is apparently working on) and finally a live action show that promised...well, Rick and George wern't too specific on that one.

At last! Facts!

Rick McCallum has done a video interview where he explains that over fifty, one hour episodes have been written! Fifty! That's amost three seasons!

Rick also says that the show will be called  Star Wars: Underworld!

Cool! But what's it about?

"It's underneath what's going on. It's the criminals and the gangs. Like the guys who are running Wall Street, basically."

Star Wars: Underworld will focus on the adventures of Bounty Hunters (think Boba Fett), smugglers (think Han Solo) and gangsters (think Jabba The Hut). So it's a show about Han Solo and Boba Fett teaming up to fight Jabba The Hut?! Ok that was speculation, but it sounds kind of cool anyway right?

The most recent interview with McCallum revealed that they are not starting production until they production costs become less than $5 million per episode.  That is not a typo.

Since every Lucasfilm does is produced in house, a company like HBO is not fronting any money to get it made.  So at least for a while, it will be impossible for a show like Underworld to break even. 

[Pols Voice]

The most recent interview with McCallum revealed that they are not starting production until they production costs become less than $5 million per episode.  That is not a typo.

lol.

I'd love to see a Star Wars with toned down special effects.

[Super Dude]

Totally. Even one scaled down to Firefly level.

[ZBomber]

I can't wait to see The Phantom Menace in 3D. It's been so long since I've seen that movie and I will be seeing it with my friend I grew up with. We used to live for Star Wars and our whole childhoods revolved around it, so it will be nice to see the films in a theater again even though I think 3D is a lousy gimmick (although The Lion King was well done).

[blackngold29]

Have you guys already seen this? This is fucking hilarious!! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgAlQuqzl8o&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

That's pretty much awesome.

[zepp-head]

I can't wait to see The Phantom Menace in 3D. It's been so long since I've seen that movie and I will be seeing it with my friend I grew up with. We used to live for Star Wars and our whole childhoods revolved around it, so it will be nice to see the films in a theater again even though I think 3D is a lousy gimmick (although The Lion King was well done).

Amen!

Have you guys already seen this? This is fucking hilarious!! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgAlQuqzl8o&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Incredible!

[blackngold29]

Lucas's new movie looks pretty good. Giant article in the NY Times about him: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/magazine/george-lucas-red-tails.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2

This seemed relevant to the discussion in this thread:

“I think there are a lot more important things in the world” than feuds with fanboys, Lucas says with a kind of weary diffidence. But then he gets serious, even a little wounded. Lucas explains that his first major features — “THX 1138” and “American Graffiti” — were forcibly re-edited by the studios. Those were wrenching experiences he has compared to someone keying your car (he loves cars) or chopping a finger off one of your children (he has three and loves them too). Afterward, Lucas set out to gain financial independence so the final cut would forever be his. “If the movie doesn’t work,” he vowed, “it’s going to be my fault.”

...

When fanboys wailed, Lucas did not just hear the scream of young Jedis; he heard something like the voice of the studio. The dumb, uncomprehending voice in his Socratic dialogues — a voice telling him how to make a blockbuster. “On the Internet, all those same guys that are complaining I made a change are completely changing the movie,” Lucas says, referring to fans who, like the dreaded studios, have done their own forcible re-edits. “I’m saying: ‘Fine. But my movie, with my name on it, that says I did it, needs to be the way I want it.’ ”