All Star Trek Discussion Thread ("Into Darkness" trailer released)

[rumborak]

I just realized that they used Trip as a kinda McCoy of ENT. Likeable but with shitloads of emotional outbursts. It's really interesting how they slowly morphed the thing into an Archer-T'Pol-Tucker triangle, just like Kirk-Spock-McCoy.

rumborak

[Adami]

I just realized that they used Trip as a kinda McCoy of ENT. Likeable but with shitloads of emotional outbursts. It's really interesting how they slowly morphed the thing into an Archer-T'Pol-Tucker triangle, just like Kirk-Spock-McCoy.

rumborak

Slowly? That was their plan from the get-go. They've admitted so. Bakula himself said their original intention was to re-create the Kirk/Spock/McCoy thing but that his crew lacked the chemistry.

[El Barto]

It's funny.  I recently read that's what they were shooting for.  In retrospect it's painfully obvious.  Normal captain, Vulcan science officer and good ole boy best friend of the captain.  What's funny is that they were so terrible at it that nobody ever noticed, despite being such an obvious attempt at it.

And I didn't know they changed theme music.  I thought it was that same horrible song for the whole series (save for ItMD, which was a pretty cool intro). 

[rumborak]

Well, at least in the beginning it wasn't that clear I thought. Side characters like Hoshi and Travis had much bigger roles, whereas season 3 is almost exclusively for that triangle.

rumborak

[Adami]

It's funny.  I recently read that's what they were shooting for.  In retrospect it's painfully obvious.  Normal captain, Vulcan science officer and good ole boy best friend of the captain.  What's funny is that they were so terrible at it that nobody ever noticed, despite being such an obvious attempt at it.

And I didn't know they changed theme music.  I thought it was that same horrible song for the whole series (save for ItMD, which was a pretty cool intro).

It's the same song, they just added a double time drum beat behind the whole thing to make it more upbeat.

[rumborak]

The song was a lost cause really. I'm surprised they even tried.

rumborak

[Adami]

The song was a lost cause really. I'm surprised they even tried.

rumborak

I agree. It's also a pretty bad song. Even if they had gone the route of theme song rather than orchestral theme, they could have picked something better and not a 2nd tier attempt for a hit by that chick who that Aerosmith song for Armageddon.

[King Postwhore]

The song was a lost cause really. I'm surprised they even tried.

rumborak

I agree. It's also a pretty bad song. Even if they had gone the route of theme song rather than orchestral theme, they could have picked something better and not a 2nd tier attempt for a hit by that chick who that Aerosmith song for Armageddon.

She wrote plenty other songs I'm not happy about either.

[Adami]

The song was a lost cause really. I'm surprised they even tried.

rumborak

I agree. It's also a pretty bad song. Even if they had gone the route of theme song rather than orchestral theme, they could have picked something better and not a 2nd tier attempt for a hit by that chick who that Aerosmith song for Armageddon.

She wrote plenty other songs I'm not happy about either.

Any other big ones? Those are the only two that come to mind. Of course I haven't looked her up or anything.

[King Postwhore]

Look Away - Chicago.  Give me the 70's band any day.

Rhythm of The night -- Debarge  (Gives me the creeps)

Time, Love & Tenderness  -- Michael Bolton


I could go on.

[BlobVanDam]

I'm going to say it - I actually like the intro song (S1 and 2, not the 3/4 variant so much). It's cheesy, but it fits the montage well, and ties it much closer to our time, which I think was the point - to show the wonder of exploration and space. Granted, the show didn't live up to that, but I thought the intro worked nicely.

[rumborak]

To me the intro represented somewhat the fatal flaw of ENT, that it was too American. All ST before had people from all across Earth, whereas almost everybody was from the US in the Enterprise crew. Even the uniforms were clearly made after US uniforms.
And so, the intro drove that point home. Mostly American achievements being shown, with an Americsn-style song behind it.

rumborak

[BlobVanDam]

I actually feel TOS was much worse for being American-centric. There was one episode where Kirk has a massive raging boner for the American constitution as if it was the galactic constant, and then he went on a big rant about it, then hugged the American flag. Ok, I think I made up that last part, but there was an American flag there for some reason, and I have no idea why this planet even had the constitution, or why none of them questioned that it got there somehow. Kirk just went on a 5 minute lecture about it. The episode was pretty good up until that drivel.

I think all Trek has some American bias, as it to be expected from an American made show. ENT was probably second to TOS for that though, so I guess I can somewhat agree.
They actually called it in one episode of ENT. The one where Tucker and the Brit are stuck on the shuttlepod alone for a few days. The British dude asks why everything is so American focused, and Tucker just says that America did everything and is the greatest.

[rumborak]

I know exactly the TOS episode you mean
To me TOS is a special case because I can't take it too serious anyway. And it also didn't have the international audience that the later shows had, so for them to please their target audience was fine (I guess).

Overall ENT feels less like the beginning of Starfleet, but more like the next steps of the US space program.
It's a shame really, because they could have had a really interesting home-bound story arc how the different human cultures came together.

rumborak

[BlobVanDam]

I agree with you. TOS gets a bit of a pass, because or the era and circumstances. ENT did try to have the usual diversity, but it was mostly good ol' fashioned American boys parading around the galaxy, and of course having Starfleet placed right next to a US landmark has never helped.
I think the reason is because they were linking it more to our present day, and also to TOS, which ends up making it more US oriented than the other series.

[rumborak]

I see what you're saying, but I think they massively overshot that goal. I was just thinking now, I just started watching the first episode of season 4, and it's the first time (I think) where a non-US civilization gets mentioned (of course Nazis no less, probably another TOS homage). Up to that moment it had been San Fran, Detroit, Montana and Florida.

rumborak

[BlobVanDam]

Don't worry, I'm not saying they succeeded at it, I can just understand how it ended up that way. As a non-US viewer, I've always been aware of the lack of geographical diversity there.

[Adami]

Time to throw some positivity in this thread.


I really loved the conflict between Reed and that Major whoever guy in Enterprise. The conflict between the Enterprise security crew and the non starfleet military. Really brilliant stuff that ST could have used in general.

[El Barto]

Just wrapped up Time's Arrow and that was pretty fucking stupid.  I was actually looking forward to it as I had good memories of it.  The first part was alright, and the premise was excellent.  The second half was just a string of gimmicks, cliche's and Deus ex machina that really wrecked the thing.  Highlights being:

The away team magically attaining perfect clothing, including a policeman's uniform, for a trip they didn't know was coming.
Data riding to the rescue with the carriage.
They can't fire normal photon torpedoes for 60 seconds because of plot necessity, but the phase shift modified ones can be fired immediately. 
Piccard whipping off his fedora like God damn Indiana Jones.
Piccard having the technical no-how to encode a message into Data's severed and non-functional head.
The conversations with Clemens about how wonderful they all are in the future, with Troi in particular, were all just awful. 
Guinan had no qualms about telling Piccard that he had to go on the away mission, but refused to tell Riker how to avoid blowing him to bits.

It just goes on an on.  It's like they had professionals write part one, and then had contest winners from some high school come up with the ending.  Really unfortunate as it should have been a stellar episode.  They put a lot of effort into crafting a great outline.  They just should have put as much effort into it's execution. 

Strangely, I never noticed that the bellhop was Jack London.  Good touch.  Also never noticed that Gul Dukat was the French poker player. 

[rumborak]

I don't know, that episode is one of my favorite TNG episodes. Sure there's some snags, but the plot is just awesome. Clemens was a bit too over the top probably, he looked more of a caricature.

rumborak

[jingle.boy]

I don't remember all the holes El B pointed out, but I do remember it beings 'meh' overall.

[The King in Crimson]

Honestly, most time travel episodes are giant plot-holes and terrible ideas waiting to happen.

Aside from Encounter At Farpoint, Time's Arrow is probably my least favorite TNG two-parter.  It has some good stuff, but is overall pretty meh.

[Adami]

Well so much for positivity.

[rumborak]

I watched the 3-episode ENT arc about the Augments. Overall pretty good, and I liked how they tied into both the Khan stuff, and the Data allusion at the end. Still not a big fan of Spiner's acting, but I guess you take what you can get

rumborak

[BlobVanDam]

I hated that episode arc so much. The worst fanwanky force the square peg into the round hole episodes ever. Different makeup. End of story. Explaining it in-universe was one of the worst ideas in all of Trek. The Data thing didn't even make much sense. Why would they need to force in that entire thing at all? He just says at the end he's going to get into making robots, so that is supposed to be a clever explanation for why one of his descendants happens to make a robot like 100 years later? Completely unrelated and stupid.

Sorry, but almost nothing in all of Trek pisses me off more than those episodes. Season 4 is full of that kind of thing, and it just feels like bad fan fic. In a Mirror Darkly is the only one that I liked, and even that is still hugely fanwank. S1 and 2 borrowed from previous series, S3 did something original and cool, then for S4 they just said "fuck it, let's just blatantly cram in as much old Trek as we can."

Sorry, I'll stop now.

[El Barto]

While I'm nowhere near as venomous about it, I largely agree with Blob.  Trying to force in as many later references as possible really reeked of desperation. 

[rumborak]

Hey come on guys, I was trying to inject some positivity here!

rumborak

[BlobVanDam]

Well Enterprise was probably the wrong approach then......
Especially as that's probably the only season of any Trek series I actively despise.

[King Postwhore]

Hey come on guys, I was trying to inject some positivity here!

rumborak

*computer brain processes sarcasm and laughs out loud*

[rumborak]

Obviously I haven't seen all episodes yet, but it would have been cool had Enterprise bound in not just TOS stories and characters, but TNG and others too. For example, one of the early Dax symbionts would have been cool to have, if only as a small cameo.

rumborak

[Adami]

Obviously I haven't seen all episodes yet, but it would have been cool had Enterprise bound in not just TOS stories and characters, but TNG and others too. For example, one of the early Dax symbionts would have been cool to have, if only as a small cameo.

rumborak

Well they did have the Borg. And yea, an old Dax host would have been very cool. I'm trying to think of other non one off people from TNG, DS9 or Voyager that could have somehow showed up, but am coming up short. Obviously the dominion were around then, but had never been to the Alpha quadrant. However, Sarek should have been alive.

[rumborak]

Yeah, a young Sarek would have been very cool. Maybe even show how he met his human wife.

Another cool being was always that Kevin dude who killed all the Krishniak. Just playing out the plot would have been an awesome episode.

rumborak

[rumborak]

One thing I just noticed again is how each of the main races have a specific primary color associated to them. Federation is blue, Klingons red and Romulans green.

rumborak

[Adami]

One thing I just noticed again is how each of the main races have a specific primary color associated to them. Federation is blue, Klingons red and Romulans green.

rumborak

I got the Romulan green thing, but............what? Klingons red? Federation blue?

[rumborak]

The lasers mostly I find. And Klingon bridges are bathed in red a lot I find.