Parasomnia Timeline Thread

[hefdaddy42]

How so? all the characters in both timelines (past and present) died, and the only one who survived is the villain.

Right.  Happy ending.  All done!

[Schurftkut]

i guess the thread title can be updated again to Jordan finished Wizardry

[ZirconBlue]

Since they brought in the concepts of cycles and reincarnation they could easily just reincarnate Victoria/Nicholas and give that character a new mystery to solve. Anything that they flesh out in the novel could also be used as foreshadowing for a sequel (which is why I think the novel could easily be a way for them to justify continuing the story). The new reincarnation could try to kill the villain as revenge plot. Idk, there are different ways to do it.

I am not saying it's a great story idea.  But it is more to work with than the original song lyrics which were pretty abstract and didn't really contain any discernible characters or themes.

This.  I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but one of my favorite series of books is about intertwining reincarnations of characters who gradually untangle the tragedies of their pasts.  And that story took 13 novels to tell. 

[Max Kuehnau]

"The keyboard wizardry is complete! All tracks for the new album are officially wrapped up!"

Can you give me the source to add in?

[ReaperKK]

None of this stuff from MP really means anything.

Agreed.

Personally I get all my DT info from the DT Discord.

[The Letter M]

Can you give me the source to add in?

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1396977624326365

🎹 The keyboard wizardry is complete! All tracks for the new Dream Theater album are officially wrapped up!

Also in that same clip with JP filming JR, you can see MP on the couch to the left, and he's wearing the same shirt in the photo he posted earlier with the BC&SL drum set that was set up in the studio.

-Marc.

[Max Kuehnau]

Thanks very much. Updated to include the post.

[TAC]

1: I took the "picking up where we left off" comment less as the album is a direct successor to BCSL and more that it's in the style of that 1999-2009 lineup, which definitely had a signature sound compared to other eras of DT (they were still figuring out their style before JR joined imo). On the other hand, highlighting the Train of Thought album and A Nightmare To Remember in that interview gives a bit of a vibe that they are leaning in a heavier direction, at least more so than the last album which wasn't very heavy. Anyway, it's not like they deviated that much from their core style when Mangini joined, but I take MP's comments to not mean much more than "it sounds like the classic lineup of DT."

Hmm..The "picking up where we left off" is such an MP thing to say. I love MP and him being back in the band is intriguing, but along with what he brings, he also brings a corny cringiness, and that comment is an example.

The comment about A Nightmare To Remember is interesting, and I feel like JP feels the same way, as it made the Distant Memories setlist to make a it on a live album, and it was also one of the three songs that were part of the drummer auditions.

2: Honestly, MP is very intentional with what he says in interviews, and all of them are really. He knows that by answering the Metropolis 3 question the way he did it would trigger a ton of specuation among fans. Whether he's doing that to misdirect the fans in order to preserve the surprise of the new album or something else isn't clear, but I am increasingly starting to feel like Metropolis 3 is going to be a thing. It could even be limited to a single song, which actually would be an appropriate way to round out the trilogy. I don't think it's that weird or bad of a decision when you think about it. 

The thing with Metropolis imo is that it's such a loose concept to begin with. Part 1 was put there as a joke and between the original song and SFAM, the lyrics really have no tangible connection to each other. Home is the only attempt at actually tying the songs together and even then it's just callbacks to phrases from the original. If anything, there was more room for a sequel at the end of Part 2. If they're working with an author to flesh out SFAM for a novelization, I can easily see that leading them to figure out what a sequel would look like.

I think I feel the way you do about all of this. The novelization is definitely an interesting development, and MP's answer was indeed phrased curiously.

The thing is...using Helloween as an example..when they released Keeper Of the Seven Keys Pt 3, I thought it was the cringiest, begging for attention and living in the past relevance type of thing. The thing is, that album is AMAZING, and I would so much rather them play one of the epics off of that album on their next tour than Keeper, which has been played on both previous reunion tours. Meaning....at the end of the day, the album's music will ultimately dictate its success, M3 or no M3.

3: No setlist hints, but I'm hoping his love for Train of Thought brings him to include some more material in the setlist. I think since Mangini joined they only played 2 songs? I would love to see any of the others make a comeback, especially Stream of Consciousness and In the Name of God. SoC in particular seems like such a no brainer for a 3 hour set as it gives James an additional significant break. Calling out ANTR as a signature DT song also makes me think there's a good chance it makes an appearance. Also would not be surprised if The Best of Times makes it on.

I think adding in SoC is a great idea, especially as it will give James a decent break in the show. And MP was ahead of the curve when trying to protect James.
I can live without ANTR. And yes, TBOT does indeed seem like a legit possibility.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I am not ashamed at all for getting hyped with having MP back. Sure it's nostalgia or whatever, but being hyped for something is fun and I am a big fan of MP. For me this is exciting fun times for my favorite band. Haven't looked forward to a tour this much with DT in years and by the ticket sale it seems many are. Maybe the tour and album comes and the whole thing wears of in just one album but for now I am enjoying the ride. Being excited for an album and not know exactly what it will be is pretty great tbh.

Well it has been a bit more boring recently to be honest. I love the guys but MP is an energetic charismatic figure. He is inspired by music from all around the spectrum and I believe his creative juice is partly influenced by that. He also influence the band quite a lot, more than I believe MM did.

But let's start with the drumming. I do think the last two records had a great sound for MM that the first three didn't, but I guess the Finally Free ending solo is a good indication of something I feel overall. MP drumming is just so much more interesting and fun to me. I honestly think MP is great at enhancing a song and adding that needed playfulness to the band. In The Name of God is another good example. The crazy note section with JR and JP could just be notes by number but I believe what MP does there makes the whole section more groovy and enjoyable.

(Link) https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EeF5O-rPPfI


Let's rank according to this:

Playful [---------------------] Technical

I understand there's tons of dimension to playing music and this is a simplification. I think MM is far right on that bar. JR and JP is quite far as well but not as much as MM. MP is a bit more to the left compared to the others, I believe.

When you say the last album was "one of the most spiced up records" I weirdly can't agree. It's technical and correct in a way. Some moments are ofc great and the title track maybe brings most of the excitement. D/T was more in my taste I guess. ADTOE had moments where I def missed MP a lot.

But why are you assuming that playful exists on the opposite end of the spectrum from technical? I see no logical relationship between the two. There is nothing about technical command of your instrument that precludes playfulness in your music. What exists on the other side of the spectrum from technical is untechnical.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Look, if you don't agree, you don't agree, that's fine, but you seem to have a not-so-veiled mocking tone in there that I'm not sure is warranted.  I DO think he spices things up, for real.  I DO think he brings a lot to the table that is intangible beyond 74/17 time signatures and 8,461 beats per minute (see, snark goes both ways).   

There is ABSOLUTELY nostalgia creeping in; so?  I've long written that Dream Theater up to 2010 was an elite band for me; I got into them in '92 with Images and Words, and though I moved around/traveled a lot for work and so didn't get to experience the seminal live shows of the era, I bought every single, every album etc, etc, and checked every show for the setlist, blah blah blah.  And after? They were great, don't get me wrong, but they were one among several.  I've seen a lot of there things that made DT special during the Portnoy years bubble up in the projects he did outside - Transatlantic, Flying Colors, Neal Morse - and I'm hoping they return or are at least more emphasized on his return.

I believe a lot in chemistry and the "locker room".  I believe in group/band dynamics.   Yes is great, but Yes isn't the same with Wakeman as with Kaye.  Yes isn't the same with Howe as with Rabin.  Marillion is still great with Hogarth, but it's a different dynamic with H than with Fish.  Portnoy is a charismatic, powerful figure and I don't think we should mock his inputs and presence in the work he does.  We don't have to appreciate it, I get that, but understand that others might.   

There is nothing mocking about my post. I am legitimately curious. I've followed the band for a while now and I am pretty damn certain the fan engagement is going to go up. There is a long track record of MP delivering on that. But I've asked for specifics in some cases because people are throwing out all sorts of benefits tied to MP's return that are honestly perplexing to me given what I've heard for the last 20-25 years. Thus far we have heard everything from he would just spice things up, he'll make the band have fun again (although if memory serves me correctly, didn't MP say one of his reasons for quitting after BCSL was that he felt the band needed a break for a while? Sounds like maybe he wasn't having as much fun as some are remembering), he'll bring the groove back, it's the locker room vibe that is going to somehow manifest itself into a better record, he's going to make live shows great again, it's going to benefit JLB the most, etc. Facebook commentary has some really head-scratching stuff.

I am honestly not intending to mock by questioning some of the premises in these expectations - though I note that you have on more than one occasion mocked/belittled what MM brings to the table (as though his contributions over the last 5 albums have been rife with unnecessary speed for its own sake). I am not even saying the new old formula isn't good. I am only trying to unpackage some of the stuff that's being said...like how can someone know or hear through the songs that the band is having relatively less fun on Distance Over Time than they did in the MP era? I am genuinely not sure.

I am also very curious what you and others here are going to think if DT16 sounds a heck of a lot like DT15, DT14, DT12 but with MP's drumming parts from the 1st era. 

[birchbark]

But why are you assuming that playful exists on the opposite end of the spectrum from technical? I see no logical relationship between the two. There is nothing about technical command of your instrument that precludes playfulness in your music. What exists on the other side of the spectrum from technical is untechnical.

One of my favorite things about Frank Zappa is how much of his music is simultaneously playful and technical. They definitely aren't mutually exclusive!

[crystalstars17]

he's going to make live shows great again

[BlackInk]

Just out of curiousity, how did they handle the "everyone survived rawr!" part of ANtR live without MP?

[brakkum]

Just out of curiousity, how did they handle the "everyone survived rawr!" part of ANtR live without MP?

James basically just transformed it into a vocal part, no growling whatsoever
https://youtu.be/MgMIHsI1Y1E?si=rBoKmPdl_WTiUQuz&t=646

[crystalstars17]

James handled it perfectly.

[Pettor]

I heard the main reason they hired MP back was to do the "rawr" justice. Since it was a fan favorite they really want to nail that part live.

[BlackInk]

Lol. Yeah I prefer MP over MM, but that's one aspect of MP I would personally hope they leave in the past.

Listened to ANtR again for the first time in years, and I actually understand why JP and MP like it. It's quite a fun and charmingly goofy song musically. And the "beautiful agony" section is quite lovely, and sounds really big and airy. It's just the lyrics that get too far into goofy or too literal for me personally.

[Pettor]

First half of ANTR is amazing and the other half is quite average. If they managed to make the second half as good as the first half it would have been top 10 for me. A bit like that with TCOT for me as well. Even if BC&SL isn't a favorite for the fans I really do think there's ton of creative juice on that album, it just wasn't polished enough many times.

But why are you assuming that playful exists on the opposite end of the spectrum from technical? I see no logical relationship between the two. There is nothing about technical command of your instrument that precludes playfulness in your music. What exists on the other side of the spectrum from technical is untechnical.

Nah I tried to explain that the whole idea is flawed and ofc lacks tons of details and dimensions. It's really just to simplify what I am trying to say. In context of DT everything is technical and MP is of course a beast for technical complex music. Maybe it would have been better to say there's "playful technical" and "disciplined technical", not sure. MM is very precise and straight to the point but lacks that groove and playful or melodic drumming, to me. Still great, just trying to explain. I have a fun time discussing this but I think you basically had a better time with DT during MM era than I have.

It's been good with MM and still a lot of great music and the 4th Wall tour was honestly one of my favorite DT shows ever.

[SeRoX]

What's so funny about it? Almost every DT fans admits MP is driven force regarding live shows. Basically we can say he is the second frontman. With MP return live shows are going to be great. This doesn't take anything from Mangini. Mangini's era is another amazing story.

[WilliamMunny]

James handled it perfectly.

I'll second this...that version is, by far, my favorite version of that song.

The scream at the end just....chef's kiss

[Stadler]

There is nothing mocking about my post. I am legitimately curious. I've followed the band for a while now and I am pretty damn certain the fan engagement is going to go up. There is a long track record of MP delivering on that. But I've asked for specifics in some cases because people are throwing out all sorts of benefits tied to MP's return that are honestly perplexing to me given what I've heard for the last 20-25 years. Thus far we have heard everything from he would just spice things up, he'll make the band have fun again (although if memory serves me correctly, didn't MP say one of his reasons for quitting after BCSL was that he felt the band needed a break for a while? Sounds like maybe he wasn't having as much fun as some are remembering), he'll bring the groove back, it's the locker room vibe that is going to somehow manifest itself into a better record, he's going to make live shows great again, it's going to benefit JLB the most, etc. Facebook commentary has some really head-scratching stuff.

The two are not logically connected, and in fact, you can point to his leaving as a PROOF of his bringing the fun back.  He wasn't being listened to, he wasn't feeling part of the gang anymore, and he left, to bring his "fun" (whatever that is) to someone else.  He's back and that shows the band, at least to some degree, want that element back.

By the way, I agree with you on the Facebook thing; I read some of those posts - made in that meme-style-whatever-it-is of a big colored box and a sentence within - and I scratch my head.  Some of these people...

I am honestly not intending to mock by questioning some of the premises in these expectations - though I note that you have on more than one occasion mocked/belittled what MM brings to the table (as though his contributions over the last 5 albums have been rife with unnecessary speed for its own sake). I am not even saying the new old formula isn't good. I am only trying to unpackage some of the stuff that's being said...like how can someone know or hear through the songs that the band is having relatively less fun on Distance Over Time than they did in the MP era? I am genuinely not sure.

I do not and never have mocked or belittled Mangini.  I have clearly stated the truth - that it is not for me - and I have stated why (sometimes in a humorous way, not to mock but to show I wasn't being mean to him personally) but I have never once ever mocked him.  He's one of the most technically advanced drummers I've ever heard, and he's by al accounts a stand up guy.  Just don't like that style in the band that I like so much.  I've said something similar about Tony Levin in ABWH; Levin is AMAZING, and he's played on some of my favorite records; he's not Chris Squire, though, and that change in style was, FOR ME, fatal on the ABWH material.

I am also very curious what you and others here are going to think if DT16 sounds a heck of a lot like DT15, DT14, DT12 but with MP's drumming parts from the 1st era. 

Well, I'm not going to comment on music I haven't heard.  I like what I like, and I don't like what I don't like and I have to hear it to decide.  I don't decide based on "song titles" or "song lengths" or anything like that.

But based on that description, I'm sort of the camp that "that's exactly what I'm expecting".  It's not like DT SUCKED over the last five albums. 

[Progmaniac1988]

I for one am ecstatic that Portnoy is back. My personal reasoning is because...

1 - I do feel the live performances were better. Laugh all you want. I get Mangini was technically "tighter" live but that's not the kind of things that wow me live. The chemistry of the current line up just had this magic that I personally never felt with the Mangini line up. I loved the live shows of course, but there was magic missing in the air and on the stage. That's just my perspective. Anyone is free to feel different. I also liked the special set lists.

2 - The albums he played on had this "special sauce" that just was gone after he left. Amazing albums, and I love them all. (Yes the astonishing too) but they never reached the heights of that "classic line up" to me at least. ADTOE was the closest I feel they did to making me feel that magic, but Mangini's drum recordings I feel sound very disappointing on that album and it always distracts me. (The recording and sound, not his actual performance)

3 - I prefer his drumming in general over Mangini. His beats and style just hits me in the feels. Makes me want to get behind the drumset and play! I don't really get that feeling with Mangini personally. I think he's a fantastic drummer, but I prefer Portnoys playing overall.

4 - The fan interaction. Corny or not, Portnoy makes the fans feels part of the band. I just love his interaction, and appreciation for the fans.

5 - Admittedly Nostalgia plays a part, Portnoy has been my favorite drummer for more than half my life, and I'll always have a fondness to that early classic line up.


Now this is just my opinion, and I totally understand the people that prefer Mangini, but I think many feel like me in the Portnoy camp.

[WilliamMunny]

I for one am ecstatic that Portnoy is back. My personal reasoning is because...

1 - I do feel the life performances were better. Laugh all you want. I get Mangini was technically "tighter" live but that's not the kind of things that wow me live. The chemistry of the current line up just had this magic that I personally never felt with the Mangini line up. I loved the live shows of course, but there was magic missing in the air and on the stage. That's just my perspective. Anyone is free to feel different. I also liked the special set lists.

2 - The albums he played on had this "special sauce" that just was gone after he left. Amazing albums, and I love them all. (Yes the astonishing too) but they never reached the heights of that "classic line up" to me at least. ADTOE was the closest I feel they did to making me feel that magic, but Mangini's drum recordings I feel sound very disappointing on that album and it always distracts me. (The recording and sound, not his actual performance)

3 - I prefer his drumming in general over Mangini. His beats and style just hits me in the feels. Makes me want to get behind the drumset and play! I don't really get that feeling with Mangini personally. I think he's a fantastic drummer, but I prefer Portnoys playing overall.

4 - The fan interaction. Corny or not, Portnoy makes the fans feels part of the band. I just love his interaction, and appreciation for the fans.

5 - Admittedly Nostalgia plays a part, Portnoy has been my favorite drummer for more than half my life, and I'll always have a fondness to that early classic line up.


Now this is just my opinion, and I totally understand the people that prefer Mangini, but I think many feel like me in the Portnoy camp.

Well said, couldn't agree more

[Jamesman42]

James basically just transformed it into a vocal part, no growling whatsoever
https://youtu.be/MgMIHsI1Y1E?si=rBoKmPdl_WTiUQuz&t=646

Go JLB! Damn that was way better than the album.

[Mosh]

Isn't that how Petrucci originally wanted it? I remember MP posting work in progress clips of the various ways they approached that section.

[JMSE]

James basically just transformed it into a vocal part, no growling whatsoever
https://youtu.be/MgMIHsI1Y1E?si=rBoKmPdl_WTiUQuz&t=646

I think a mix of James take and MP original take at the same time would sound great. 

[WilliamMunny]

Isn't that how Petrucci originally wanted it? I remember MP posting work in progress clips of the various ways they approached that section.

It is, and I believe it would've been the right call.

I don't mind a good blood curdling scream every now and then, but my issue with MP's vocal on Nightmare was always that it sounded, I dunno, unconvincing?

Not that I care...didn't ruin the song or anything, but if they'd asked my opinion, I would've said just cut all the vocals if you can't get a guest singer. Just leaving that section instrumental would've been preferable to the performance MP gave (ironic, bc I generally LOVE MP's vocals)

[crystalstars17]

What's so funny about it? Almost every DT fans admits MP is driven force regarding live shows. Basically we can say he is the second frontman. With MP return live shows are going to be great. This doesn't take anything from Mangini. Mangini's era is another amazing story.

Sorry, the wording just made me laugh because of its similarity to a once popular political slogan ..lol... and because that's how brainwashed so many of the Portnoy/nostalgia contingent of fans seem to be acting over everything right now... I'll see myself out.. 🌚

[Progmaniac1988]

Sorry, the wording just made me laugh because of its similarity to a once popular political slogan ..lol... and because that's how brainwashed so many of the Portnoy/nostalgia contingent of fans seem to be acting over everything right now... I'll see myself out.. 🌚

Nobody is brainwashed. Some prefer Portnoy, and some like yourself obviously prefer Mangini. Hell I even admitted there was SOME nostalgia involved in my last post, but that's FAR from the only reason. I listed many other reasons I prefer Portnoy as well, and I'm sure many Portnoy fans have their own. Everyone has a right to their own preferences. No reason to try to belittle peoples feelings on the matter. I find the need to add I think Mangini did a fantastic job in DT, I just prefer MP.

[Stadler]

Nobody is brainwashed. Some prefer Portnoy, and some like yourself obviously prefer Mangini. Hell I even admitted there was SOME nostalgia involved in my last post, but that's FAR from the only reason. I listed many other reasons I prefer Portnoy as well, and I'm sure many Portnoy fans have their own. Everyone has a right to their own preferences. No reason to try to belittle peoples feelings on the matter. I find the need to add I think Mangini did a fantastic job in DT, I just prefer MP.

That's me too; there's no "brainwashing", and that's not at all fair.  I've given my attention to the Mangini era, I've bought every release (including the live material) and I've technically seen them more frequently with Mangini than with Portnoy (including twice on the most recent tour).   I'm perfectly capable of determining what I like and what I do not like, and all points in between.  I have enough data now to know I prefer the version with Portnoy in the group.   

[Puppies_On_Acid]

Sorry, the wording just made me laugh because of its similarity to a once popular political slogan ..lol... and because that's how brainwashed so many of the Portnoy/nostalgia contingent of fans seem to be acting over everything right now... I'll see myself out.. 🌚

Brainwashed, right.....

Some people prefer Portnoy over Mangini. It's called an opinion. We are allowed to prefer one era over the other.

Of course, now we are getting dangerously close to Wildranger objective/subjective territory 

[Stadler]

Brainwashed, right.....

Some people prefer Portnoy over Mangini. It's called an opinion. We are allowed to prefer one era over the other.

Of course, now we are getting dangerously close to Wildranger objective/subjective territory 

That is objectively true. 

[gborland]

Everyone agrees that MM is a brilliant drummer and a very nice guy.

Many of us prefer Portnoy.

That's not brainwashing, it's just life.

[Adami]

So, I can confirm that it actually IS brainwashing.


I can say this because I personally conducted the brainwashing. My apologies to the many thousands of Mangini fans that I personally brainwashed to become Portnoy fans at the complete disregard of logic and objectivity.

It was a bad choice on my part, but...I have no regrets.

I'll do it again if I must!

MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[jammindude]

I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but I just saw an interview where apparently Portnoy said that this new album "picks up right where BCSL left off..."

That's the first thing I've heard that actually made me worry a little bit. Because I think BCSL is really not a good album. In fact, picking up the thread of what someone said earlier, the way I remember it is that back in '09-'10 or so, even Portnoy himself said that he felt that the last two albums had been a bit substandard, and that was why he felt that the dream theater machine needed to take a break for a while. I actually agreed with him, but I thought his 5 year demand (IIRC) was absolutely ridiculous. Maybe taking a year or a year and a half I can see.  But at that time, I did feel that Dream Theater was somewhat spent creatively. And they definitely needed a break.

Fortunately, the personnel shake up did spark a new wave of creativity that produced varying results. But I certainly hope that they are not simply "picking up where BCSL left off"