Parasomnia Timeline Thread

[gzarruk]

I hate this argument, this is the same as the "If Jaco Pastorius only needed 4 strings..." garbage in the bass world. I don't totally disagree that it can be easy to overuse the 8 string, but let's not say that it's a lesser instrument, it's just a tool. (and it's totally ok to not enjoy a certain tool)

Oh, man, as a bassist I HATE this so much

I get that the djent sound has become very stale, but JP used the 8 string in a better way IMO.

[hefdaddy42]

I get that; I know my comment was just... we have John Myung, Jordan Rudess and John Petrucci all competing for the same or similar sonic spaces... I get that DT's thing is "wankfest" and I love that, but I like the spaces as well.  My experience, my opinion, is that that instrument just makes things more dense and creates competition for the sonic space. 

I guess so.  But so far, the 8 string has only been used on one song, and it was used fairly effectively, and more importantly the song was pretty good.  For me, at least.

[CraftyCaleb2483]

I guess so.  But so far, the 8 string has only been used on one song, and it was used fairly effectively, and more importantly the song was pretty good.  For me, at least.

Well, we know that Hef is right on all things, so therefore this must be true  (though in my opinion the thing that saved that song was JR's keyboard work)

[Mosh]

Not really all that thrilled about the "8-string".  None of the music I really dig engages that instrument with any regularity.   Just write good songs, and play them well.

Ok but if they are writing good songs and playing them well on an 8 string why does it matter? Especially when DT already has plenty of baritone guitar songs that come pretty close to 8 string range.

[BlackInk]

The 8-string is a difficult instrument to implement, which is why it has mostly been popular with Meshuggah and later "djent"ish bands that don't use that "chocolate cake" warmness in their tones that Petrucci usually seems to go for, and use a more raw steel-y sound so as to not get too far into the mud. It may be that the tone and style that Petrucci is comfortable with just simply isn't all that well suited for this specific tool.

Unless he wants to change his tone completely, which I don't see as quite likely. But maybe. Haken changed their tone in that direction, and their 8-string stuff is clean as hell as a result as far as I can tell.

[gzarruk]

The Prog Report just posted a new Wheel of Prog episode with Jordan and he talked a little bit about DT16 and the return of Mike P to the band. It's interesting because he mentions the kind of influence/input Mike had on the new album writing and arranging that they had been "missing", I guess.

Here it is timestamped: https://youtu.be/zGFEyG82XXQ?si=sr3DPp6s3zT6sUgf&t=954

[cramx3]

The 8-string is a difficult instrument to implement, which is why it has mostly been popular with Meshuggah and later "djent"ish bands that don't use that "chocolate cake" warmness in their tones that Petrucci usually seems to go for, and use a more raw steel-y sound so as to not get too far into the mud. It may be that the tone and style that Petrucci is comfortable with just simply isn't all that well suited for this specific tool.

[TAC]

The Prog Report just posted a new Wheel of Prog episode with Jordan and he talked a little bit about DT16 and the return of Mike P to the band. It's interesting because he mentions the kind of influence/input Mike had on the new album writing and arranging that they had been "missing", I guess.

Here it is timestamped: https://youtu.be/zGFEyG82XXQ?si=sr3DPp6s3zT6sUgf&t=954

Thank you for the link.

Of course, I remember after MP left that Jordan was pretty fucking happy about making ADTOE in terms of writing and constructing.

[Progmaniac1988]

Thank you for the link.

Of course, I remember after MP left that Jordan was pretty fucking happy about making ADTOE in terms of writing and constructing.

Yeah I think he was truly happy with that album when it released. ADTOE I'd say has some amazing writing on it. I think he's just saying Portnoy adds something that's been missing even tho the post Portnoy stuff was still very good. I've always said it myself. I'd hear MM era albums and sometimes I'd just get this "I love this, but something is missing feeling". So I actually completely get what he's saying.

[TAC]

Yeah I think he was truly happy with that album when it released. ADTOE I'd say has some amazing writing on it. I think he's just saying Portnoy adds something that's been missing even tho the post Portnoy stuff was still very good. I've always said it myself. I'd hear MM era albums and sometimes I'd just get this "I love this, but something is missing feeling". So I actually completely get what he's saying.

But he spoke of composing ADTOE in a way that led at least me to believe that MP wasn't there for that part of it. I remember how he said something along the lines of using not having to resort to using "the snarling pig" and now he's free to explore other sounds.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

The Prog Report just posted a new Wheel of Prog episode with Jordan and he talked a little bit about DT16 and the return of Mike P to the band. It's interesting because he mentions the kind of influence/input Mike had on the new album writing and arranging that they had been "missing", I guess.

Here it is timestamped: https://youtu.be/zGFEyG82XXQ?si=sr3DPp6s3zT6sUgf&t=954

Wow. I don't know if it was just me but did anyone else feel surprised at how (17:21) Jordan says of the last 13 years 'DT was fine. We did fine.' Sounded almost unimpressed by the work they did over the last 5 albums.

I get that they're entering marketing mode so anything and everything about what is about to be released must be talked up as the greatest improvement over sliced bread and instant ramen (happens on every album release including all of the MM era stuff), but his delivery on that statement caught me off guard. Maybe he did not intend it the way I heard it.

[TAC]

Wow. I don't know if it was just me but did anyone else feel surprised at how (17:21) Jordan says of the last 13 years 'DT was fine. We did fine.' Sounded almost unimpressed by the work they did over the last 5 albums.

Yeah, that was weird.

[nobloodyname]

I didn't hear it that way at all.

[gzarruk]

But he spoke of composing ADTOE in a way that led at least me to believe that MP wasn't there for that part of it. I remember how he said something along the lines of using not having to resort to using "the snarling pig" and now he's free to explore other sounds.

Here's the actual quote from part of that interview back then:

The fact that Mike Portnoy left did not make us suffer. John Petrucci and I, we are the core composers of DREAM THEATER, and it has been that way since I joined the group. So, even though Mike was extremely talented, there were certain limitations of what he could do in terms of the production. So when we moved on, we looked at each other and said, "We can produce this album. We do not need somebody else telling us what is good or not," and we enjoyed that challenge. The biggest difference in writing music to this album was that we decided to write this music choosing what is best for us without Mike Portnoy being the DREAM THEATER police telling us "yes" or "no." I think that it took us a little more time to craft our music before putting our stamp of approval on it.

https://blabbermouth.net/news/rudess-new-cd-was-written-without-portnoy-being-dream-theater-police-telling-us-yes-or-no

Boy, do things change after a while

I didn't hear it that way at all.

Yeah, to me it sounded the other way around, as in "we actually didn't need Mike back". It surprised me to hear it too either way.

[TAC]

Nice find. I can't really do a search right now, but I definitely remember that. I know he references the Pig at some point as well in an interview.

[Schurftkut]

i was just thinking.. Most of the best DT songs start with Myung playing, (scarred,home,soc, gp, aia, voices, TTT, s2n)

Hoping for some myung based songs!

[HOF]

i was just thinking.. Most of the best DT songs start with Myung playing, (scarred,home,soc, gp, aia, voices, TTT, s2n)

Hoping for some myung based songs!

Lifting Shadows off a Dream for the win!

[pg1067]

i was just thinking.. Most of the best DT songs start with Myung playing, (scarred,home,soc, gp, aia, voices, TTT, s2n)

Hoping for some myung based songs!

Stream of Consciousness starts with clean acoustic guitar.

Also, you meant "my favorite DT songs," not "the best DT songs."  FWIW, the songs you mentioned placed at 12, 5, 39, 15, 43, 7, 17, and 94 in the most recent DT song countdown.

[Progmaniac1988]

But he spoke of composing ADTOE in a way that led at least me to believe that MP wasn't there for that part of it. I remember how he said something along the lines of using not having to resort to using "the snarling pig" and now he's free to explore other sounds.

Yeah I forget exactly how he put it. ADTOE was definitely written 100% without MP. I'm sure they were all trying their best to stay positive on the situation. I'd say that album in particular was very fresh and inspired. Except for the disappointing drum sound (not MM's performance I only mean the sound). I do think over time I noticed MP's absence more and more as albums came out. I'm sure having MP now added something fresh to the writing this time. Even if it'll be a bit familiar.

[Skeever]

I didn't hear it that way at all.

Agreed.

[Herrick]

Here's the actual quote from part of that interview back then:
https://blabbermouth.net/news/rudess-new-cd-was-written-without-portnoy-being-dream-theater-police-telling-us-yes-or-no

Boy, do things change after a while

Yeah, to me it sounded the other way around, as in "we actually didn't need Mike back". It surprised me to hear it too either way.

Yeah I remember that "police" comment but other than The Astonishing, I don't really see anything they've made post Portnoy that Portnoy would object to if he was still with them on those albums. I do not mean to imply that those albums would've turned out exactly the same with Portnoy but it all still sounds like Dream Theater to me.

[Setlist Scotty]

Yeah I forget exactly how he put it. ADTOE was definitely written 100% without MP. I'm sure they were all trying their best to stay positive on the situation. I'd say that album in particular was very fresh and inspired. Except for the disappointing drum sound (not MM's performance I only mean the sound). I do think over time I noticed MP's absence more and more as albums came out. I'm sure having MP now added something fresh to the writing this time. Even if it'll be a bit familiar.

Fresh and inspired, like IaW?    

[Jamesman42]

Almost every album made with a new member, that album seems to be considered the best of its era. In my mind, there are 3 major eras of DT's album history:

First 4 albums: IaW - JLB joins (FII has DS joining but that is overshadowed by JLB joining in this era) 
Next 6 albums: SFAM - JR joins
Last 5 albums: ADTOE - MM joins

MP rejoining hopefully gives a huge spark to the music creation. I am excited to hear it.

[CraftyCaleb2483]

Stream of Consciousness starts with clean acoustic guitar.

Also, you meant "my favorite DT songs," not "the best DT songs."  FWIW, the songs you mentioned placed at 12, 5, 39, 15, 43, 7, 17, and 94 in the most recent DT song countdown.

Doesn't home also start with a clean guitar in drop D?

[DreamerTV]

I believe that what Jordan, even though he expressed it in a strange way – which doesn't happen so rarely – wanted to simply show respect for what was done in previous years, and especially to the person who was there before.
It still takes a certain tact to say "hey, everything is great again now!" knowing that this message could reach someone with whom you've shared the stage for more than 10 years.

Furthermore, what Jordan may have said 13 years ago is of little relevance now: almost none of us know what the mood within the band was like, or the conditions that led to the breakup – clearly, I know nothing, but if it comes to asking for a break – of any duration – that is the consequence of one or more problems, not the cause of the problems – and it's also understandable that there might have been a certain need to show they could move forward despite the circumstances.

Moreover, Jordan, although very polite and calm in his tones, has always struck me as a rather proud type, especially when it comes to musical abilities. Haven't you ever noticed that?!

[Progmaniac1988]

Fresh and inspired, like IaW?    

I see what you did there! Well played my friend 😂 maybe I stand corrected lol.

[crystalstars17]

Moreover, Jordan, although very polite and calm in his tones, has always struck me as a rather proud type, especially when it comes to musical abilities. Haven't you ever noticed that?!

I have NEVER noticed that! If anything, humility. Unless of course you know him personally and know things I don't see as a mere fan.

I do agree with the rest of your post though. He's nothing if not gracious. It must be a situation that's in some ways difficult for everyone involved.

The "police" comment does concern me though and it's something I've feared since last fall. I would cry if anyone dared to clip Jordan's wings as a composer.

[Kyo]

It's not a big secret that MP was much more involved in the arranging of songs and all kinds of conceptual considerations. Of course having him back in the band will take some of the workload and responsibility off the other guys' shoulders. If they can get this to work in a way that doesn't end up with the others feeling like they're working under some sort of dictator, it's easy to see why they'd welcome the change now that their personal relationships have been repaired.

I thought the View album was very strong musically, but I can also see why it might feel like MM with his "I just work here" attitude (which was painfully obvious in one of the bigger interviews he did a couple of years ago) wasn't pulling his weight creatively or contributing enough on the press and fan interaction fronts.

[CraftyCaleb2483]

Moreover, Jordan, although very polite and calm in his tones, has always struck me as a rather proud type, especially when it comes to musical abilities. Haven't you ever noticed that?!

Not so much proud in my opinion, more like involved with everything. Have you seen how many companies he deals with?!

[Trav]

What Jordan said made total sense to me. Portnoy was obviously more involved in the songwriting process than Mangini. Having that other person there makes quite a difference. It seems like Portnoy was the one that was always pushing things a little. Trying new ideas in song style which has been kinda stagnant lately. The sound isn't that diverse.

[hefdaddy42]

Moreover, Jordan, although very polite and calm in his tones, has always struck me as a rather proud type, especially when it comes to musical abilities. Haven't you ever noticed that?!

No

[pg1067]

Doesn't home also start with a clean guitar in drop D?

Clean guitar for sure.  I have no idea about the tuning.

[Trav]

Doesn't home also start with a clean guitar in drop D?

Yes.

[CraftyCaleb2483]

Yes.

Phew

[HOF]

I don't see anything inconsistent between it being a refreshing change for the band at the time of ADTOE to not have MP in the room pushing his ideas/vision/criticisms etc., and for the band now to be happy to have his input back after a lengthy time without it. A lot of time between those two points, a lot of albums made without MPs input, and plenty of time for everyone to grow and change and appreciate things from a new vantage point.