Top Of The World Tour 2023

[Ben_Jamin]

If given the opportunity, would you tell JLB the criticisms you have about his voice? Would you use the same exact language you are using in this thread?

There's many things we do not know or understand about JLBs vocals, and for one I do not care.

I also, understand peoples criticism of his vocals, and again, people do not listen to Dream Theater because of JLBs vocals. I know people who do enjoy the music, buy are immediately turned off by the vocals. And one person enjoys them live, but says "Dream Theater does not need a vocalist"

I dont know what it is, but apparently the band reads these forums, and hopefully, JLB will take into account that most fans are starting to wane on his vocals, and would rather him do something to better his performances. Sometimes, harsh criticism is needed to fully see the bigger picture.

His voice has never been consistent live and he tries to change things up from time to time as well, do these chnages work? Not all the time. I do not like the way he sang "Our deeds will travel far" during the Distant Memories tour, but I was still happy I got to see and hear him sing the song.

[Kram]

Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.

Don't leave.  I want to hear how your Opeth discovery is going!

[Mladen]

If given the opportunity, would you tell JLB the criticisms you have about his voice? Would you use the same exact language you are using in this thread?

This is also a good point that I'm adding to my take on the previous page.

[sfam2112]

But how "young"? Tell you what, early DT boots are pretty common so why not dig out five shows from the I&W tour and five from the current tour and we'll compare.

In my opinion, that's an unfair comparison. I'd say go with the FII, Scenes, and Six Degrees tours and hear how inconsistent he was back then. Once in A Livetime, Through Her Eyes single, Seoul 2000 bootleg, the two Beacon Theater shows in 2002, Bucharest 2002 official boot. I think his toooone was better back then than it is now but he was still very pitchy and seemed to struggle about as much in his mid-late 30s.

[nobloodyname]

That's why I said "young". No definition of 'young' was given.

I also deliberately chose the pre-food poisoning era.

[sfam2112]

That's why I said "young". No definition of 'young' was given.

I also deliberately chose the pre-food poisoning era.

Fair enough. 

[crystalstars17]

The point was not that anyone who enjoyed the show should go home and watch the recording day after so they can feel bad about having a good time.

The point is that with this much of the same criticism of the tour - and quite honestly this is as much as I've ever seen on this forum - if a person is essentially saying there isn't much of an issue at all and this person is a self proclaimed fan-girl, then maybe her perception is distorted.

Wow. My perception is distorted because I am a fan and a girl.   Some seemed to miss where I said that I am also a classically trained pianist. Frankly, I thought James sang more out of tune when he was young.

I'm seeing a trend here too, my friend. As a fan who is a girl and a classically trained singer, IDK what to say about this, but it's a little unsettling. Guys, can't we all agree to disagree, as regardless of gender or anything else that is truly irrelevant, we all love this band???

If given the opportunity, would you tell JLB the criticisms you have about his voice? Would you use the same exact language you are using in this thread?

Exactly my thoughts! Would any of the authors of these criticisms say the exact same words to his face at the next meet and greet?!

I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and while I don't believe all criticisms are in the spirit of "bashing", I'm starting to wonder whether those who have been seeing them since the 1990's aren't just taking them for granted? I am a relatively new fan, since 2016, and I still feel very privileged to witness their live shows. I missed so much, I wasn't there in the 90's, I missed seeing Score live, I've missed practically everything. So I take nothing for granted. And when I had the utmost privilege of meeting James in person, I literally told him to his face that I was a classically trained singer and I appreciated his amazing technique. It's why he's my favorite singer, he has the voice of an angel. After meeting him all I could say was "Omg, I just met my angel of music". Call me a fangirl, it just may be true.

Does that mean he can do no wrong by default? No. I don't agree with many of his present stylistic choices...

I do not like the way he sang "Our deeds will travel far" during the Distant Memories tour

Case in point. (But like the OP, I was also very happy to hear him sing this song).

But I also hear, because of my background and training, what the problems are and know he can fix them. I've studied with teachers and coaches who were also vocal therapists and those who have sung at La Scala. This does not make me an authority, but from the knowledge imparted to me I do know what I'm hearing and that it's not hopeless. 

And to the question of whether he actually sang better in the early 90's, mind you I am going from recordings here but no, I disagree. Maybe what he did back then was bombastic, but I actually prefer his vocals in the early 2000's up to the mid-2010's. That's when his tone was the most beautiful, most polished, most unearthly gorgeous like no other singer I've heard outside of the classical genre. And with my list of favorite singers in his and related genres, he's got some formidable competition.

[ReaperKK]

Wow. My perception is distorted because I am a fan and a girl.   Some seemed to miss where I said that I am also a classically trained pianist. Frankly, I thought James sang more out of tune when he was young.

And I see this much bitching here about James every tour.

Seems like the complainers aren't fans. I'd rather be a fan than a dud.

Yeah...as someone who saw DT several times pre-food poisoning, I find these discussions to be very interesting.

I always found the food posioning stuff to be really interested. Its now been ~30 years since the incident, does it even hold any weight anymore. Over the past 3 decades we've seen some fantastic and some not fantastic performances from James. Can't it simply be age?

[Evai]

I really liked the new vocal approach for the Bridges In The Sky chorus. His switching to the soft heady falsetto thing for high notes seems much more preferable to than trying to push for the notes with power.

[DoctorAction]

Some of the over-reaction to any criticism here has been ridiculous. For the record:

Nuance is a thing. We can love things and also realise they are imperfect. We must love imperfect things to love any other people, or ourselves.

Variation is a thing. Your fandom means you don't see any negatives at all and only feel enraptured joy at every second of a DT gig? Great. But that's not everyone's experience. You don't get to tell others what their experience should be.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I really liked the new vocal approach for the Bridges In The Sky chorus. His switching to the soft heady falsetto thing for high notes seems much more preferable to than trying to push for the notes with power.

There is no falsetto used in Bridges in the Sky

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

The point was not that anyone who enjoyed the show should go home and watch the recording day after so they can feel bad about having a good time.

The point is that with this much of the same criticism of the tour - and quite honestly this is as much as I've ever seen on this forum - if a person is essentially saying there isn't much of an issue at all and this person is a self proclaimed fan-girl, then maybe her perception is distorted.

Wow. My perception is distorted because I am a fan and a girl.   Some seemed to miss where I said that I am also a classically trained pianist. Frankly, I thought James sang more out of tune when he was young.

I'm seeing a trend here too, my friend[/b]. As a fan who is a girl and a classically trained singer, IDK what to say about this, but it's a little unsettling. Guys, can't we all agree to disagree, as regardless of gender or anything else that is truly irrelevant, we all love this band???

If given the opportunity, would you tell JLB the criticisms you have about his voice? Would you use the same exact language you are using in this thread?

Exactly my thoughts! Would any of the authors of these criticisms say the exact same words to his face at the next meet and greet?!

I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and while I don't believe all criticisms are in the spirit of "bashing", I'm starting to wonder whether those who have been seeing them since the 1990's aren't just taking them for granted? I am a relatively new fan, since 2016, and I still feel very privileged to witness their live shows. I missed so much, I wasn't there in the 90's, I missed seeing Score live, I've missed practically everything. So I take nothing for granted. And when I had the utmost privilege of meeting James in person, I literally told him to his face that I was a classically trained singer and I appreciated his amazing technique. It's why he's my favorite singer, he has the voice of an angel. After meeting him all I could say was "Omg, I just met my angel of music". Call me a fangirl, it just may be true.

Does that mean he can do no wrong by default? No. I don't agree with many of his present stylistic choices...

I do not like the way he sang "Our deeds will travel far" during the Distant Memories tour

Case in point. (But like the OP, I was also very happy to hear him sing this song).

But I also hear, because of my background and training, what the problems are and know he can fix them. I've studied with teachers and coaches who were also vocal therapists and those who have sung at La Scala. This does not make me an authority, but from the knowledge imparted to me I do know what I'm hearing and that it's not hopeless. 

And to the question of whether he actually sang better in the early 90's, mind you I am going from recordings here but no, I disagree. Maybe what he did back then was bombastic, but I actually prefer his vocals in the early 2000's up to the mid-2010's. That's when his tone was the most beautiful, most polished, most unearthly gorgeous like no other singer I've heard outside of the classical genre. And with my list of favorite singers in his and related genres, he's got some formidable competition.

Yes, let us now pretend, because we don't like others criticizing someone we like, that the term 'fan-girl' isn't an idiom - exactly like fan-boy - but rather it only means a human who is both a fan and a girl. I am sure the latter is what you meant in your original post despite the context which made it undeniably clear (e.g., 'I am a fan-girl'). Give me a break.

Anyway, we are respectfully discussing our opinions of the tour on the tour thread as the tour proceeds. I am sorry that some of our opinions you find upsetting but that is just how it goes sometimes.

EDIT: by the way, I find it hilarious that the same poster above who is agreeing with geeemo that 'fan-girl' was used in the literal sense (and thus in a quasi-discriminatory manner by me) and not the idiomatic one, then proceeded in the same post to use the idiomatic version herself: 'Call me a fangirl, it just may be true.'

You can't make this stuff up...

[wolfking]

Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.

Are you calling us sexist or something?

No one is 'bashing' either.  If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.

[bl5150]

Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.

Are you calling us sexist or something?

No one is 'bashing' either.  If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.

Autocorrect got it right for a change 

[crystalstars17]

Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.

Are you calling us sexist or something?

No one is 'bashing' either.  If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.

Autocorrect got it right for a change 

Wow, not just Karens here, but bullies.

What an insufferably unfriendly place. I don't blame her for being "done here".

[wolfking]

Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.

Are you calling us sexist or something?

No one is 'bashing' either.  If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.

Autocorrect got it right for a change 

[wolfking]

Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.

Are you calling us sexist or something?

No one is 'bashing' either.  If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.

Autocorrect got it right for a change 

Wow, not just Karens here, but bullies.

What an insufferably unfriendly place. I don't blame her for being "done here".

Bullies?  I'm sorry?

[bl5150]

Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.

Are you calling us sexist or something?

No one is 'bashing' either.  If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.

Autocorrect got it right for a change 

Wow, not just Karens here, but bullies.

What an insufferably unfriendly place. I don't blame her for being "done here".

If having a laugh at an unfortunately placed spelling mistake is considered bullying then I'm not sure that I'm the Karen (perhaps the opposite?) , but okay........any attempt at lightening the mood anywhere these days seems to be met with more and more outrage.  I haven't read back pages to see how this discussion got so damn serious but I'll butt out and leave it to those who are not mean, nasty bullies.

[wolfking]

Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.

Are you calling us sexist or something?

No one is 'bashing' either.  If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.

Autocorrect got it right for a change 

Wow, not just Karens here, but bullies.

What an insufferably unfriendly place. I don't blame her for being "done here".

If having a laugh at an unfortunately placed spelling mistake is considered bullying then I'm not sure that I'm the Karen (perhaps the opposite?) , but okay........any attempt at lightening the mood anywhere these days seems to be met with more and more outrage.  I haven't read back pages to see how this discussion got so damn serious but I'll butt out and leave it to those who are not mean, nasty bullies.

Who let you out of the dojo? 

But seriously though, 100%, people need to chill out sometimes.  The political correctness these days is out of control.

I for one am not a bully and prejudice against women in any way and I don't believe any other person here is either truthfully.

There's one thing I damn well know too and that Brent is no bully.  He's one of the last on here that would venture anywhere near that category as a person.

[crystalstars17]

Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.

Are you calling us sexist or something?

No one is 'bashing' either.  If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.

Autocorrect got it right for a change 

Wow, not just Karens here, but bullies.

What an insufferably unfriendly place. I don't blame her for being "done here".

If having a laugh at an unfortunately placed spelling mistake is considered bullying then I'm not sure that I'm the Karen (perhaps the opposite?) , but okay........any attempt at lightening the mood anywhere these days seems to be met with more and more outrage.  I haven't read back pages to see how this discussion got so damn serious but I'll butt out and leave it to those who are not mean, nasty bullies.

Who let you out of the dojo? 

But seriously though, 100%, people need to chill out sometimes.  The political correctness these days is out of control.

I for one am not a bully and prejudice against women in any way and I don't believe any other person here is either truthfully.

There's one thing I damn well know too and that Brent is no bully.  He's one of the last on here that would venture anywhere near that category as a person.

My apologies, then. I obviously misread the intent. My retort about "bullies" was not directed at any one person, but in general. The last thing I want is to hurt someone unintentionally, so please accept the apology.

Pardon me though if it does seem at certain times as if comments by "fangirls" are marginalized? Perhaps if geeeemo and I were "fanboys" our comments would've been received the same way - essentially, treated as somehow less cerebral and more emotional - or as if somehow our fangirl status apparently overrides rationality and critical thinking? Maybe I haven't been here long enough to see a self-proclaimed "fanboy"'s comments received in the same way?

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.

Are you calling us sexist or something?

No one is 'bashing' either.  If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.

Autocorrect got it right for a change 

Wow, not just Karens here, but bullies.

What an insufferably unfriendly place. I don't blame her for being "done here".

If having a laugh at an unfortunately placed spelling mistake is considered bullying then I'm not sure that I'm the Karen (perhaps the opposite?) , but okay........any attempt at lightening the mood anywhere these days seems to be met with more and more outrage.  I haven't read back pages to see how this discussion got so damn serious but I'll butt out and leave it to those who are not mean, nasty bullies.

Who let you out of the dojo? 

But seriously though, 100%, people need to chill out sometimes.  The political correctness these days is out of control.

I for one am not a bully and prejudice against women in any way and I don't believe any other person here is either truthfully.

There's one thing I damn well know too and that Brent is no bully.  He's one of the last on here that would venture anywhere near that category as a person.

My apologies, then. I obviously misread the intent. My retort about "bullies" was not directed at any one person, but in general. The last thing I want is to hurt someone unintentionally, so please accept the apology.

Pardon me though if it does seem at certain times as if comments by "fangirls" are marginalized? Perhaps if geeeemo and I were "fanboys" our comments would've been received the same way - essentially, treated as somehow less cerebral and more emotional - or as if somehow our fangirl status apparently overrides rationality and critical thinking? Maybe I haven't been here long enough to see a self-proclaimed "fanboy"'s comments received in the same way?

Ok, but this is NOT what was said by geeeemo, which is what you showed support for. The below quote means something quite different.

Wow. My perception is distorted because I am a fan and a girl.

At no point did anyone remotely suggest that ones sex, gender identity etc was the reason for holding a particular view.

[crystalstars17]

At no point did anyone remotely suggest that ones sex, gender identity etc was the reason for holding a particular view.

Point taken, and I'm glad to hear it. So what is it, then? That most fans just dislike James and those fans who defend him get treated like we're his blind (and apparently also deaf) sheep? I have also posted criticisms of my own, so it's not as if I think he's unassailably perfect. But neither should we be expected to revere him any less because he isn't? That is our choice, and we shouldn't be treated as somehow less than reasonable if we're not willing to jump on the hater train.

[bosk1]

Yeah, BarStoolWarrior is just a jerk in general, not a sexist one. 

[wolfking]

At no point did anyone remotely suggest that ones sex, gender identity etc was the reason for holding a particular view.

Point taken, and I'm glad to hear it. So what is it, then? That most fans just dislike James and those fans who defend him get treated like we're his blind (and apparently also deaf) sheep? I have also posted criticisms of my own, so it's not as if I think he's unassailably perfect. But neither should we be expected to revere him any less because he isn't? That is our choice, and we shouldn't be treated as somehow less than reasonable if we're not willing to jump on the hater train.

I'm happy people are happy with his performances, there's nothing more you'd like to see from a veteran so far in their career.  I guess a few of us are just calling a spade a spade as we see it.  I would apologise also if I've come across like people are stupid for not hearing what we are criticizing him on.  People just hear things differently I suppose.  I for one would never try to conform anyone to agree with my opinion of his performances of late.  If I am the minority, then great, that's a good thing for the band and the fan base.  If I see an issue with that, that's just it, it's simply my issue.

Sometimes I do think the 'fanboy/fangirl' thing comes into play sometimes and I'm guilty of that myself with some bands and for even a lot of James performances in the past.  Many have had a go at him in the past and I've up til now, never had a single issue with his performances on anything I've heard from when he joined the band up until the DOT tour.  I'll listen to anything and enjoy him, always have.

I'm kind of tired of it though, and it seems most are happy with everything and the tour that's just happened so great, I think we should move on.

Barstool is right with his last sentence too, 'At no point did anyone remotely suggest that ones sex, gender identity etc was the reason for holding a particular view.'  I back that up.

[KevShmev]

I'd just like to point out as well that referring to anyone as a Karen is an offensive slur, so that needs to GTFO.

[crystalstars17]

I'd just like to point out as well that referring to anyone as a Karen is an offensive slur, so that needs to GTFO.

Fine, then the complainers who don't want to buy tickets anymore because it's not up to their impossible standards can go call the manager all they want. I won't call them names anymore, but I might remind them that it won't do any good.

[bosk1]

I'd just like to point out as well that referring to anyone as a Karen is an offensive slur, so that needs to GTFO.

  No it isn't.

[nobloodyname]

I'd just like to point out as well that referring to anyone as a Karen is an offensive slur, so that needs to GTFO.

Fine, then the complainers who don't want to buy tickets anymore because it's not up to their impossible standards can go call the manager all they want. I won't call them names anymore, but I might remind them that it won't do any good.

Goodness. How about we just don't buy tickets? I'm assuming I'm deemed a "complainer" because I'd just like the lead singer of my favourite band to turn in a level of performance I'd find suitable for the overall level of the band's musicianship.

As for the name calling... well, it should be beneath us. And the implied claim of sexism? Gosh.

[DoctorAction]

I'd just like to point out as well that referring to anyone as a Karen is an offensive slur, so that needs to GTFO.

Fine, then the complainers who don't want to buy tickets anymore because it's not up to their impossible standards can go call the manager all they want. I won't call them names anymore, but I might remind them that it won't do any good.

Your name-calling had/has no place in a discussion like this, is the point, obviously.

[ErHaO]

Pitch is an actual, factual thing that can be measured and be put into terms. How someone experiences that sound is of course a subjective matter, as it apparently varies between people. For myself, it unfortunately sounds like nails on chalkboard, I won't enjoy a performance with significant pitch issues. And it can be put into objective terms as to why. Who the singer is or what their legacy is, is irrelevant to me, since I simply do not get an enjoyable experience if something is (really) out of tune (I thankfully do not hear every slight flaw). And trust me, it sucks if that is your experience with a favorite artist.

[wolfking]

I'd just like to point out as well that referring to anyone as a Karen is an offensive slur, so that needs to GTFO.

Fine, then the complainers who don't want to buy tickets anymore because it's not up to their impossible standards can go call the manager all they want. I won't call them names anymore, but I might remind them that it won't do any good.

Who is the manager?

[crystalstars17]

As for the name calling... well, it should be beneath us.

Indeed and, typically, it is. Apologies once again. It's no excuse, but I've reached a breaking point with tolerating all of it. Evidently I'm too much of a starry-eyed idealist for not thinking that I'd come to a fan site and find nothing but harsh criticism for that which we're supposedly a fan of. I've never seen its like, anywhere ever. I'm honestly tired of it, I'd love to be a more contributing part of this community but in all fairness, having to defend my favorite singer constantly to his own fans not only makes being here a less enjoyable experience overall but is becoming exhausting.

And the implied claim of sexism? Gosh.

...was not mine.

Who is the manager?

Metaphorically speaking. But if the band did have someone literally taking complaints, would the haters actually be calling them? Would they do so face to face, or if they had to provide actual identification? Or does the relative anonymity here give them the sense that they can tear James apart to their heart's delight? Again, would they say it to his face?

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I agree with those who have said we should not resort to name-calling. Unfortunately, the mod doesn't agree and has thus called me a 'jerk' out of nowhere   

[WilliamMunny]

I agree with those who have said we should not resort to name-calling. Unfortunately, the mod doesn't agree and has thus called me a 'jerk' out of nowhere   

I took his post as a joke... (maybe yours is as well???)

Let's put aside the 'Great Debate' for a moment and discuss the 2023 Tour. Seems like the band is intent on staying on the road as much as possible to make up for lost touring. I've been out of the loop in regards to their socials and announcements—has there been any word of them returning for another stateside run? I'd love to see them this summer at an outdoors venue.

[crystalstars17]

Let's put aside the 'Great Debate' for a moment and discuss the 2023 Tour. Seems like the band is intent on staying on the road as much as possible to make up for lost touring. I've been out of the loop in regards to their socials and announcements—has there been any word of them returning for another stateside run?

Oh yes, please!!! I'm hoping for Wallingford CT again this fall! 🙏