Top Of The World Tour 2023

[crystalstars17]

.I mean, I'm a naturally shy and introverted person in real life, but music is where I can let myself go a little.

This is a really important thing to mention. People of different personalities enjoy things differently. In light of that, I don't know why some judge how well the band is being received by the audience reaction. As another natural introvert, I enjoy the music quietly. It's enough for me to immerse myself in the music and the experience, and I never feel the need to "let go" and start moving around or being loud. Of course I'll be on my feet, even in the aisle (if the venue allows), applaud (and even holler) at the end of a song, but I don't jump around and do crazy things (Ok that said,  if you look close during certain moments, I may be teary). But this is just an important fundamental difference in the way introverts enjoy the show. I'm glad someone mentioned it. 🙂

[jimgolf]

I really don't understand why people are blaming the band for JLB's live struggles. Putting PMU on the shelf forever is a non-starter - that should be obvious. Apparently, the band is already accommodating JLB by tuning down a half step for that song. Some are acting as though everyone else is somehow unknowingly sabotaging him by selecting tunes that he could never execute. It's ridiculous and obviously he thinks he can sing the songs. I guess if the band thought he was struggling - something we have no indication of - they could just add an instrumental track, but the View tour's song selection is already skewed towards longer tunes with more instrumental passages including songs whose melodies JLB himself wrote a mere 2 years ago. This is just where he is right now in his career and song selection is not the issue. I am not sure why one would think that OTBOA is somehow going to be a totally different story (by the way, I don't think that song is much easier than any other in the DT catalogue).

Not to get into a back and forth over it, but just to reply to some of the things you said. They are playing Pull Me Under in its original key - they did downtune it during the anniversary tour when they played all of images and words. Yes, OTBOA is a much easier song to sing than Pull Me Under from a high notes perspective. I am very confident James could sing OTBOA and do a great job nowadays, but some of the notes in Pull Me under are just out of his range at this stage of his career.

In the studio maybe he could sing it with a couple shots at it, but live its too much after doing a set of songs. To be fair, I think hes still doing a great job with most of the other songs like Alien, Solitary Shell, Sleeping Giant, Tuscany, AVFTOTW, Answering the Call. It's just frustrating as a fan who likes to see them at their best because the whole thing seems like such an easy fix - especially because the rest of the band is still killing it and playing at a very high level.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I really don't understand why people are blaming the band for JLB's live struggles. Putting PMU on the shelf forever is a non-starter - that should be obvious. Apparently, the band is already accommodating JLB by tuning down a half step for that song. Some are acting as though everyone else is somehow unknowingly sabotaging him by selecting tunes that he could never execute. It's ridiculous and obviously he thinks he can sing the songs. I guess if the band thought he was struggling - something we have no indication of - they could just add an instrumental track, but the View tour's song selection is already skewed towards longer tunes with more instrumental passages including songs whose melodies JLB himself wrote a mere 2 years ago. This is just where he is right now in his career and song selection is not the issue. I am not sure why one would think that OTBOA is somehow going to be a totally different story (by the way, I don't think that song is much easier than any other in the DT catalogue).

Not to get into a back and forth over it, but just to reply to some of the things you said. They are playing Pull Me Under in its original key - they did downtune it during the anniversary tour when they played all of images and words. Yes, OTBOA is a much easier song to sing than Pull Me Under from a high notes perspective. I am very confident James could sing OTBOA and do a great job nowadays, but some of the notes in Pull Me under are just out of his range at this stage of his career.

In the studio maybe he could sing it with a couple shots at it, but live its too much after doing a set of songs. To be fair, I think hes still doing a great job with most of the other songs like Alien, Solitary Shell, Sleeping Giant, Tuscany, AVFTOTW, Answering the Call. It's just frustrating as a fan who likes to see them at their best because the whole thing seems like such an easy fix - especially because the rest of the band is still killing it and playing at a very high level.

Ok but the struggles aren't unique to PMU or to 'high notes' - this is happening literally every night nearly every song. I've enjoyed a ton of footage from the View tour and it's not like things are going hunky dory until the band plays PMU. We are talking about every song missing notes that are a half or whole step apart smack in the middle of his range. It's a much more deeply set issue than just the notes are too high in his register. Even the mid-low notes are problematic.

I am not going to post footage here, but every song you mentioned has been volatile night to night.

[crystalstars17]

James was pretty good I thought, all things considered. Though I will say this - he quite often takes liberties with the notes, and for some of the high ones, goes deliberately for a higher note than the original, or extends it way too long. I think if he kept it simple it might be better.

This. This is spot on and exactly what is happening. Nothing more and nothing less than stylistic choices, and entirely fixable. If he would just sing it straight, like he used to, we would see many of these "problems" disappear. Because, admit it, when he's good, he's still very very good. That sublime, angelic sound is still there.

[nobloodyname]

Yeah I think the reasons for small crowds have been covered - prices way too high, shitty sound, naff vocals, and set lists not to everyone's liking. It's a shame, but there you have it. Of the above, the sound is my biggest issue.

Does anyone really pass on the show solely because of James' voice?

Yes.

(That sounds brutal but it's really not meant to. Just no other way to put it, really!)

[hunnus2000]

James takes liberties with his own music??

That sounds so weird! Why wouldn't he take liberties? It's his music!

As Neil Peart wrote - I write this song for me not you...........

[Kram]

James was pretty good I thought, all things considered. Though I will say this - he quite often takes liberties with the notes, and for some of the high ones, goes deliberately for a higher note than the original, or extends it way too long. I think if he kept it simple it might be better.

This. This is spot on and exactly what is happening. Nothing more and nothing less than stylistic choices, and entirely fixable. If he would just sing it straight, like he used to, we would see many of these "problems" disappear. Because, admit it, when he's good, he's still very very good. That sublime, angelic sound is still there.

I agree. Keep it simple.  I watch some of these YouTube clips and think "what is he doing?" It's kinda frustrating to this fan.

[crystalstars17]

I agree. Keep it simple.  I watch some of these YouTube clips and think "what is he doing?" It's kinda frustrating to this fan.

Yes! I've had many of those "what is he doing?" moments myself. Like actual face-palm, cringe moments that do not line up with what I've always known from my favorite singer. Of course artists can evolve, but at what point does it stop being listenable...

As Neil Peart wrote - I write this song for me not you...........

Naturally but there does come a point where this can cross the line into self-indulgent showboating. When that line is crossed, things like over-ornamentation become no longer a tasteful choice which serves the music. In my (ok, I know) classical background, this is the point at which a vocal coach or conductor would remind the singer that they're going a bit off the rails. I would think that JP, JR et al would assume the role of the conductor at these times and let him know when it's a bit too much.

[KevShmev]

James was pretty good I thought, all things considered. Though I will say this - he quite often takes liberties with the notes, and for some of the high ones, goes deliberately for a higher note than the original, or extends it way too long. I think if he kept it simple it might be better.

This. This is spot on and exactly what is happening. Nothing more and nothing less than stylistic choices, and entirely fixable. If he would just sing it straight, like he used to, we would see many of these "problems" disappear. Because, admit it, when he's good, he's still very very good. That sublime, angelic sound is still there.

Like he used to?  James has always taken liberties and tried to over sing (relative to the album parts) his own parts. I noticed it on the Live in Tokyo VHS when I first got it back in the mid 90s, and I have always noticed it when seeing the band live over the years or watching concerts.  It's always been his thing.  Heck, even when I saw them on The Astonishing tour, he sounded pretty darn good that night, but there were a handful of times he tried to do too much, it didn't sound good, and I was like, "Nooooo, James! You were sounding so good!!"  I just don't think he can help himself.

[Azyiu]

The show in London last night was great! To my surprise, my seat was in row 8 (I wasn't aware of that when I got my tickets), and I could see everything on stage clearly. The band was sharp, to say the least, and I have no complaints about their playing at all. That was my 7th time seeing them live, but I must say while the band was great; it definitely was not one of James' best nights at all. He just looked sort of exhausted to me right off the bat. He also couldn't hit those high notes anymore to the point that, he literally didn't sing the high parts in CIAW. His vocal track volume was tuned kind of low too, perhaps it was an attempt to try and hide his singing difficulty? Still, I am glad I attended the show and I had a fantastic time last night.

[Jinx]

Yeah I've kind of accepted DT as what it is nowadays. Absolutelt phenomenal musicians let down by their frontman. James tries but hes just not cut out for it anymore, and thats why I tend to opt not to go see them nowadays.

If it was a one, two or even 3 out of 10 times where JLB was falling flat then I would probably chance it but its like every other show where he is struggling bad. I will just buy the blu rays and enjoy the show that way rather than dropping the big bucks to go live. Sad times.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Yeah I've kind of accepted DT as what it is nowadays. Absolutelt phenomenal musicians let down by their frontman. James tries but hes just not cut out for it anymore, and thats why I tend to opt not to go see them nowadays.

If it was a one, two or even 3 out of 10 times where JLB was falling flat then I would probably chance it but its like every other show where he is struggling bad. I will just buy the blu rays and enjoy the show that way rather than dropping the big bucks to go live. Sad times.

That's the spirit! This is exactly what I think we need more of: acceptance. There are a lot who are in a kind of state of shock about it maybe because the performances have been so rough lately. There's been a lot of resulting excuses-- everything from speculating about unannounced injuries, to blaming the band for the setlist. But I think the more we adopt the 'it is what it is' view, the more content we'll be. It's sort of like a Buddhist approach to the vocal, if you will.

I differ a little on the live experience as I think the band sounds spectacular. I get your point about it being tough to stomach, but acceptance has helped me just let it go when I am hearing JP, MM, JR and JM tear it up. They are the very best.

[cramx3]

I think I've accepted it like 10 or 15 years ago when I first started going to DT concerts.  He's honestly mostly fine in person, I think because of how loud DT are, so when at the venue, it almost never bothers me besides certain spots, but it becomes noticeable when I go and watch my videos or someone elses.  It is what it is.  I don't want anyone else up there singing for them.

[goo-goo]

I guess no show was filmed for future release?

[jbrum77634]

I did 3 of the UK shows, Manchester, Birmingham and London last night - I thoroughly enjoyed all 3 but last night was the best, the sound was just right in the circle, powerful but clear.

Manchester was very loud but i was in the circle side wings that run close to the PA, Birmingham I was in the stalls left ledge with half the PA blocked by the circle left ledge above.  You get a great view up close to the side of the stage but I wont sit there again due to the sound issues.

London was my 30th DT gig and these days post-Covid I appreciate them all the more, the 6DOIT excerpt was a highlight, much preferred JP's backing vocals to the effects employed on last years shows.   

[DoctorAction]

Saw the boys in London for the last date of the tour yesterday.

My ticket was actually a drunken purchase over Christmas, the seat being 7 rows from the front facing JP (so there was no way it wasn't going to be good from a seeing-a-musical-hero play POV) but I only had medium expectations (SC and BCASL missed for me, ADTOE and DT12 were fine, TA missed). I've seen them 6 times now, I think, but not since the Train Of Thought tour, iirc. DoT and AVFTTOTW won me back and I like this venue so thought I'd give it a go.

In short, I had a blast! Still buzzing.

A few observations:

JP was jaw-droppingly good the whole night. What a legend. His changes, ability and heaviness are just extraordinary. The greatest metal guitarist of all time.

Jordan/JM/MM also fantastic, of course. On record you can somewhat take DT for granted but seeing them right in front of you really brings home what insane music they play, incredibly tightly.

James was a real mixed bag from WTF to fine, as you might expect, but don't want to criticise. There was a LOT of WTF, though.

The band playing to a click was no problem. I expected it to feel a bit restrained but they came across really powerfully. Heavy AF in many places. The sync of the music with the backdrop was very cool, in particular on the View title track.

AVFTTOTW was the night's highlight for me. Comes across amazingly well live. Count of Tuscany also really good, but no track was less than excellent. It was a great set, imo.

Sound was loud, meaty, aggressive and clear. I like Hammersmith Apollo. It's big-ish but has atmosphere too. The guitar tone was huge. The chugs in PMU were MONSTROUS.

The whole band seemed relaxed and happy. I guess the last date of a tour is a good one to see as everyone is well practised, relieved and looking forward to getting home to their families, etc.

Delighted I went.

[emtee]

Kind of a bummer to keep reading quasi- negative reactions to James performances. He's the consumate professional and must know that it's getting tougher to do his job. I really wonder how many more years his pipes can take the repeated beating.

[Logain Ablar]

Sound was loud, meaty, aggressive and clear. I like Hammersmith Apollo. It's big-ish but has atmosphere too. The guitar tone was huge. The chugs in PMU were MONSTROUS.

The whole band seemed relaxed and happy. I guess the last date of a tour is a good one to see as everyone is well practised, relieved and looking forward to getting home to their families, etc.

Delighted I went.

Glad you had a great time. You reminded me of something - the stereo guitar effect at the start of Sleeping Giant was absolutely ferocious. I heard a few audible gasps around me. Totally cool. 

[DoctorAction]

Sound was loud, meaty, aggressive and clear. I like Hammersmith Apollo. It's big-ish but has atmosphere too. The guitar tone was huge. The chugs in PMU were MONSTROUS.

The whole band seemed relaxed and happy. I guess the last date of a tour is a good one to see as everyone is well practised, relieved and looking forward to getting home to their families, etc.

Delighted I went.

Glad you had a great time. You reminded me of something - the stereo guitar effect at the start of Sleeping Giant was absolutely ferocious. I heard a few audible gasps around me. Totally cool. 

Totally. Such a massive sound.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

JP's channel 2 sounds absolutely brutal this tour. So crunchy.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I guess no show was filmed for future release?

Unfortunately it appears that way. There's still hope for a Japan recording, but a blu-ray is looking increasingly unlikely with so few confirmed dates left. 

It's such a shame not to have a recording every tour but I guess the label or whoever is thinking that there is not enough demand for it.

[Azyiu]

I am sure many here had noticed this long ago, but it just dawned on me that the concert in London the other night took place in the same building; 3 years to the day since they recorded the Distance Memories show. Wow! Anyway, I listened to that cd last night while playing a video game. Good times. 

[Peter Mc]

Yeah I think the reasons for small crowds have been covered - prices way too high, shitty sound, naff vocals, and set lists not to everyone's liking. It's a shame, but there you have it. Of the above, the sound is my biggest issue.

Does anyone really pass on the show solely because of James' voice?

I almost did after the DOT/SFAM tour which was my first experience of him really ruining a show for me.  Prior to that I was always a huge defender of JLB but now, when you're paying upwards of £86 for a ticket, I expect the frontman to sound like a professional vocalist.  I gave it another go this time around and it was passable from what little I could hear but far from what I would describe as a good singer.  It is getting to the point now where I would seriously consider missing them live in future.  The songs and melody are important to me, I'm not just there to see them noodling away on their instruments.

[DoctorAction]

Yeah I think the reasons for small crowds have been covered - prices way too high, shitty sound, naff vocals, and set lists not to everyone's liking. It's a shame, but there you have it. Of the above, the sound is my biggest issue.

Does anyone really pass on the show solely because of James' voice?

I almost did after the DOT/SFAM tour which was my first experience of him really ruining a show for me.  Prior to that I was always a huge defender of JLB but now, when you're paying upwards of £86 for a ticket, I expect the frontman to sound like a professional vocalist.  I gave it another go this time around and it was passable from what little I could hear but far from what I would describe as a good singer.  It is getting to the point now where I would seriously consider missing them live in future.  The songs and melody are important to me, I'm not just there to see them noodling away on their instruments.

I agree with these points. I'd forgotten about the price. (As I said, it was a drunken purchase.) My seat cost me £117! The most I ever paid for a ticket (except for ABBA Voyage but a family member requested that). I really enjoyed my night but the cost was about double what it should have been.

And I hate to focus on this again but feel I'm not being fully honest if I don't. I too care very much about the songs and singing. As a comparison, I've never heard an amateur singer in a pub give a vocal performance that made me wince like that.

[crystalstars17]

prices way too high, shitty sound, naff vocals, and set lists not to everyone's liking.

I will just buy the blu rays and enjoy the show that way rather than dropping the big bucks to go live. Sad times.

I gave it another go this time around and it was passable from what little I could hear but far from what I would describe as a good singer.  It is getting to the point now where I would seriously consider missing them live in future.

As a comparison, I've never heard an amateur singer in a pub give a vocal performance that made me wince like that.

Wow...you all really are a bunch of karens!

Shall I call the manager for you?

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I don't see how 'Karen' applies to this situation really. It's valid feedback/criticism from fans who are spending a lot of money to go to the shows and are either happy or disappointed.

[Schurftkut]

yeah, i've seen them live 5 times since 2004, and JLB just isn't up for many of the songs live anymore

[crystalstars17]

I don't see how 'Karen' applies to this situation really. It's valid feedback/criticism from fans who are spending a lot of money to go to the shows and are either happy or disappointed.

But saying they will not continue to support them is not acting like loyal fans... it's acting like irate customers.

[Adami]

I don't see how 'Karen' applies to this situation really. It's valid feedback/criticism from fans who are spending a lot of money to go to the shows and are either happy or disappointed.

But saying they will not continue to support them is not acting like loyal fans... it's acting like irate customers.

No.

[Dani Helios]

I saw them in Manchester. Was undoubtedly one of the better DT gigs I've been to. Up there with SFAM20 Hamburg. Was quite a treat for me finally seeing PMU on my 6th outing. Way better sound than in Newcastle on their first leg of the tour and I thought James was on very good form.
I have to be honest I simply don't know how people see James' vocals as even close to him needing to call it quits. Just my two cents.

[pg1067]

I don't see how 'Karen' applies to this situation really. It's valid feedback/criticism from fans who are spending a lot of money to go to the shows and are either happy or disappointed.

But saying they will not continue to support them is not acting like loyal fans... it's acting like irate customers.

No.  It's acting like smart consumers.  We all have limited amounts of money to spend on entertainment.  Being a "loyal fan" does not mean continuing to drop scarce resources on what one considers to be an inferior product.  If Coke changes its formula and you don't like the new formula, are you going to continue to buy it just to be a "loyal fan"?  No.  If, for whatever reason, an entertainment product is no longer enjoyable to any given fan, then that person should no longer consume that product.

Personally, I'm not in that position.  I've enjoyed every DT show I've attended.  However, I understand why others might feel differently, and there's no good reason to cast aspersions on those who want to jump off the live show boat.

[TAC]

I don't see how 'Karen' applies to this situation really. It's valid feedback/criticism from fans who are spending a lot of money to go to the shows and are either happy or disappointed.

But saying they will not continue to support them is not acting like loyal fans... it's acting like irate customers.

They could be dissatisfied customers. We are Dream Theater's customers.

[DoctorAction]

Wow...you all really are a bunch of karens!

Shall I call the manager for you?

I had a great night out. I might go again. Would be weird not to be discussing a major aspect of the performance, right?

[DreamerTV]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myMR0Bl3_eY

This is one of my favourite YT videos of theirs - it was uploaded 15 years ago, and it's about an Italian gig in 2006 where they performed About to crash/Losing Time.
My point here is that when JLB was on, he did improve dramatically the overall performance of the band.
And so if someone is not keen to spend the quite huge amount of money that a DT concert costs nowadays because he feels something is missing, I can understand him.

[Madman Shepherd]

prices way too high, shitty sound, naff vocals, and set lists not to everyone's liking.

I will just buy the blu rays and enjoy the show that way rather than dropping the big bucks to go live. Sad times.

I gave it another go this time around and it was passable from what little I could hear but far from what I would describe as a good singer.  It is getting to the point now where I would seriously consider missing them live in future.

As a comparison, I've never heard an amateur singer in a pub give a vocal performance that made me wince like that.

Wow...you all really are a bunch of karens!

Shall I call the manager for you?

That's a bit extreme BUT I also don't understand why people are so critical of a band that has given us so much. We're not talking ozzy levels of crappy performing. If it's not up to someone's standards, fine. But I honestly can't fathom someone letting their qualms get in the way of enjoying the experience overall