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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: jadiggerdt on November 09, 2022, 04:38:32 AM
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going to groningen with my father. first time for him, 5th for me!
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So, do we think there is any chance of shaking up the set list for these new shows?
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going to groningen with my father. first time for him, 5th for me!
Figured you were Dutch with this gentle nickname. I’ll go to Tilburg for sure, hoping Hefdaddy ‘s right and they change the setlist a little. But if won’t, I won’t be complaning either…
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So, do we think there is any chance of shaking up the set list for these new shows?
I can see them dropping 1-2 songs, but I wouldn't expect any major changes based on what we saw for DoT.
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going to groningen with my father. first time for him, 5th for me!
Figured you were Dutch with this gentle nickname.
when choosing a username i had to try too many variations of what i wanted that weren't allowed, so i tried this one which there's apparently no censorship needed. i used to be keywizardlike, but lost my login..
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So, do we think there is any chance of shaking up the set list for these new shows?
I can see them dropping 1-2 songs, but I wouldn't expect any major changes based on what we saw for DoT.
I hope they at least drop BITS and ES. Would love to see Sleeping Giant and something else replacing those two.
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So, do we think there is any chance of shaking up the set list for these new shows?
I can see them dropping 1-2 songs, but I wouldn't expect any major changes based on what we saw for DoT.
I hope they at least drop BITS and ES. Would love to see Sleeping Giant and something else replacing those two.
I would be fine if they dropped those two and TMOLS, and insert a couple shorter songs in there.
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funny, Bridges In the Sky and Ministry of Lost Souls were (next to The Count) the highlights on last tour, for me. Especially The Ministry of Lost Souls. Incredible touching and moving, best song on Systematic Chaos by a mile.
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So, do we think there is any chance of shaking up the set list for these new shows?
My realistic guess is that they will swap Awaken the Master for Answering the Call.
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So, do we think there is any chance of shaking up the set list for these new shows?
My realistic guess is that they will swap Awaken the Master for Answering the Call.
If they want to swap Invisible Monster for Transcending Time as well, that’d be fine by me!
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Hoping they manage to come back to the UK and play anywhere other than the hideous cow-shed that is Wembley Arena.
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They will not be dropping Awaken the Master.
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i'm hoping for octavarium instead of tcot, answering the call instead of ministry. OR just play the glass prison again and i'm happy
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i'm hoping for octavarium instead of tcot, answering the call instead of ministry. OR just play the glass prison again and i'm happy
I’d think maybe ITNOG for Sacrifice and Ministry replaced with something short for the 20th of ToT.
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i'm hoping for octavarium instead of tcot, answering the call instead of ministry. OR just play the glass prison again and i'm happy
I’d think maybe ITNOG for Sacrifice and Ministry replaced with something short for the 20th of ToT.
As much as I’d love to hear ITNOG, I think it’s a bit out of range for James these days. I could see them maybe playing Stream of Consciousness though. Maybe This Dying Soul? I like Honor Thy Father but I think the band would shy away from that considering how portnoy driven the song is. I would really really love to see Octavarium live. The only show from the Octavarium tour I saw was Gigantour and they’ve never played it since(outside of the Schmedley Wilcox ending)
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I don't think we'll see Octavarium played live until maybe the next tour.
As for next year's sertlist, I don't think they'll change it too much, but I'm hoping for some tweaks. Most of these songs they've already played many times since 2011.
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It's been said, but it really is such a shame they don't change the setlist around as much anymore as they used to. I understand from the production side and it's hard to memorize or relearn (or even to recreate) some of the songs live. But still. If only they changed half of the set, than it would be much more interesting to go to see the band live more than once. I mean: 70 euros ain't cheap. And all things considered: I'd rather prefer 'an evening with' setlist with a few instrumentals and/or an intermission. They have so many albums to cover these days, a lot of them don't get the attention they deserve. For the next leg I'd love to see Answering The Call, In The Name Of God and Octavarium, but that seems wishful thinking.
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I was convinced The Ministry of lost souls was wishful thinking, and yet here we are. I wouldn't be surprised if The Glass Prison, Octavarium or In the name of God came back.
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I don't think we'll see Octavarium played live until maybe the next tour.
As for next year's sertlist, I don't think they'll change it too much, but I'm hoping for some tweaks. Most of these songs they've already played many times since 2011.
Which ones have been played many times in the last 11 years?
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The only songs that were played on three tours since 2011 are Breaking all illusions, Bridges in the sky, Metropolis, The Spirit caries on and As I am. I am not counting Pull me under, that one shows up sporadically at festivals. But yeah, that's not a lot of songs. That's a handful of them. They've mostly been pulling out songs that they haven't performed in years.
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Yeah, my point is that they have played “most of the songs many times”. The only one in the set now that has been played since 2011/2012 was Bridges and About to Crash and that was just a summer European tour in 2015. So no one else in the world has had those. And if people are complaining that they played “xyz” 11 or 12 years ago like that was so soon… I mean c’mon!
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I should've worded this better :P
I meant to say about half of their set had already been played before with MM. BITS, ES, 6:00, TCOT all have official live versions from this lineup and I wish some of them were replaced with something else. There's lots of other songs they haven't played for a lot longer.
Still, I'd definitely go see them if I had the chance to :tup
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I should've worded this better :P
I meant to say about half of their set had already been played before with MM. BITS, ES, 6:00, TCOT all have official live versions from this lineup and I wish some of them were replaced with something else. There's lots of other songs they haven't played for a lot longer.
Still, I'd definitely go see them if I had the chance to :tup
Yeah, you’re right about that. I agree, if they come back here with the same set I’ll still go. We don’t know how many tours they have left in them. But they really should change it up a little if they are playing the same markets twice.
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It's funny, I often have a similar reaction to songs where I'm like, "Oh, their playing that again? Haven't we heard it enough recently?" And then I actually go and check and realize it has been a lot more years than I thought. DT is just that band now where they have been around for so long that they've played just about everything a lot now.
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It's funny, I often have a similar reaction to songs where I'm like, "Oh, their playing that again? Haven't we heard it enough recently?" And then I actually go and check and realize it has been a lot more years than I thought. DT is just that band now where they have been around for so long that they've played just about everything a lot now.
That is true, but with such a massive catalog at this point, there's plenty to pick from that hasn't been played with MM yet. For one, I was really surprised that they haven't played Erotomania yet. Would have been perfect for this tour: representing Awake, hasn't been played with MM yet, is an instrumental to give JL (who has been struggling more) a break. Makes much more sense than playing 6:00 again. And they could've played something else from ADToE than BitS, not only because of the miming fiasco, but also because that song was played consistently throughout the whole Dramatic tour (aside from the summer warmup leg) and was included on the 2015 mini-tour, such as LNF or TitL which were both added late in the tour.
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I do hope they change things up. The setlist for this tour was not the greatest overall. I certainly enjoyed the shows, but I feel the setlist can be a lot better and since they already toured Europe once, another leg should be different IMO. Maybe not completely, but at least 2 songs. (swap in a new song with another new song, and an old with another old for example). I think that should be the bare minimum, but we all know DT has gotten used to not changing the sets up even between legs.
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I do wish the band would change up the setlist. But also, being one that hardly ever sees the band, and I never really got to see them much with MP, I understand why they don't. I did not get to see many of the songs on the setlist this tour before. Even though I've watched Live at Luna Park and the other live dvds, it's an entirely different experience actually being there at the show and hearing these songs.
Being that the songs I enjoy most from some bands tend to be ones they rarely play live, it does not matter to me what songs a band plays live. Most of these songs were only played for that certain tour, and only played one tour with MM. I do not mind one bit that they played these songs again. I saw it twice because this setlist was about as close to a dream set-list the band could have done with this amount of set-time. I did not expect them to go full on epic mode either by the majority of the set being songs close to 10 min. in length.
Some of us are very fortunate to witness the band more than once, but also there are many whose first time is that very show which is your 5th show of the tour.
With the production utilizing some fantastic graphic animation, it takes time to make these videos and having various amount of songs to switch around can become a bit of a hassle. The backing videos weren't that well produced either when Portnoy was in the band, it was more like Windows Visuals type of video mixed with live shots of the band. This tour, it's entirely a video production, and it works well with the surrounding album cover art and the light show. I think it's amazing and is showcased by how much the band downsized their gear, especially Mangini with his downsized drum-kit (Although I understand there could be other reasons for him downsizing the kit).
I do also think it is possible to have worked in some more video animation in this downtime, so that they can change up the set with some different songs.
Also, the video production is one reason why I think the band doesn't improvise much, or add in extra solos and that type of stuff. I say this because of how much the band improvised during the I&W&B tour, and they did not have a video screen at all, which gave them a sort of freedom by not being bound to staying in sync with the video production.
It's funny, I often have a similar reaction to songs where I'm like, "Oh, their playing that again? Haven't we heard it enough recently?" And then I actually go and check and realize it has been a lot more years than I thought. DT is just that band now where they have been around for so long that they've played just about everything a lot now.
That is true, but with such a massive catalog at this point, there's plenty to pick from that hasn't been played with MM yet. For one, I was really surprised that they haven't played Erotomania yet. Would have been perfect for this tour: representing Awake, hasn't been played with MM yet, is an instrumental to give JL (who has been struggling more) a break. Makes much more sense than playing 6:00 again. And they could've played something else from ADToE than BitS, not only because of the miming fiasco, but also because that song was played consistently throughout the whole Dramatic tour (aside from the summer warmup leg) and was included on the 2015 mini-tour, such as LNF or TitL which were both added late in the tour.
Reminds me of what Geddy Lee said on R30, "We have way too much music to play" and I feel Dream Theater has hit this point where they have so much music they can play now that certain songs won't be played as much anymore.
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As far as i'm concerned in regard to DT, I could CARE LESS about video screens, click tracks, graphics, animation, blah, blah, blah. They are NOT Kiss who needs that stuff! People go to DT shows for the instrumentation and the songs! I don't expect the MP days when it comes to setlists, but it would be great to have at least, alternating sets.
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As far as i'm concerned in regard to DT, I could CARE LESS about video screens, click tracks, graphics, animation, blah, blah, blah. They are NOT Kiss who needs that stuff! People go to DT shows for the instrumentation and the songs! I don't expect the MP days when it comes to setlists, but it would be great to have at least, alternating sets.
Agreed, but it appears obvious that the band has become stuck in their ways and aren't gonna change any time soon, so the click tracks and static set lists are here to stay. It's a shame because they have so much music now, yet every show on a tour has the same songs.
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As far as i'm concerned in regard to DT, I could CARE LESS about video screens, click tracks, graphics, animation, blah, blah, blah. They are NOT Kiss who needs that stuff! People go to DT shows for the instrumentation and the songs! I don't expect the MP days when it comes to setlists, but it would be great to have at least, alternating sets.
So you don't appreciate at all the band putting on a show? would you enjoy it the same (maybe with a discount on the ticket price) if they were just playing in a room with basic lightning and no kind of added visual bonus at all?
Granted, every band is different, and there's no magic formula for a show that applies to everyone; some shows are more basic, some are more theatrical. And every show can be technically performed by the band members wearing everyday clothes on a basic stage with just enough lightning to let people see them. But a live concert is a show, a performance, not a band rehearsal with the public attending. It's an experience, it's more than just seeing in person some guys playing music rather than watching them on YouTube playing in a room together. Maybe some people would be just fine with a very basic show, but many as well go to shows to, well, see a show, not just to watch musicians playing their music.
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It's good to see they'll do another tour BUT if they don't change setlist, at least 3-5 songs, there will be no interest for them. Hardcore fans sure buy ticket no matter what they play. But as the tour goes and setlist reveals many won't buy it. We will see more empty seats.
Tbh, I don't think last tour setlist was their loved and even liked one so they must change it for their sake. Will they change? I don't think so, maybe 1-2 songs. This is their worst strategy that keeping setlist same for a long time, espeically since MP left.
I hope I'm wrong. I hope they'll do great.
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I missed it the first time around (purposefully, the Fury fight going on next door in the stadium meant prices all around the area were bumped up) so I am glad that they are coming back - to a better venue to in the Hammersmith! As such I'm not altogether bothered about the setlist although I think they might play a song or 2 from ToT as its the 20th anniversary.
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As far as i'm concerned in regard to DT, I could CARE LESS about video screens, click tracks, graphics, animation, blah, blah, blah. They are NOT Kiss who needs that stuff! People go to DT shows for the instrumentation and the songs! I don't expect the MP days when it comes to setlists, but it would be great to have at least, alternating sets.
So you don't appreciate at all the band putting on a show? would you enjoy it the same (maybe with a discount on the ticket price) if they were just playing in a room with basic lightning and no kind of added visual bonus at all?
Granted, every band is different, and there's no magic formula for a show that applies to everyone; some shows are more basic, some are more theatrical. And every show can be technically performed by the band members wearing everyday clothes on a basic stage with just enough lightning to let people see them. But a live concert is a show, a performance, not a band rehearsal with the public attending. It's an experience, it's more than just seeing in person some guys playing music rather than watching them on YouTube playing in a room together. Maybe some people would be just fine with a very basic show, but many as well go to shows to, well, see a show, not just to watch musicians playing their music.
I don't mind them improving the production at all, but not at the cost of playing to a click and static setlists.
The thing is, they can still do both. Rush (the band who they almost always follow as an example) almost never used a click, triggered whatever samples were needed manually (as opposed to playing along to tape) and on recent tours had swapped out a few songs from night to night. So everything we're asking for is doable - especially with 5 guys as opposed to 3. But for whatever reason, this is one thing that they won't do like Rush. That and live backing vocals.
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I think the only time DT's videos were actually important to the show were from the Astonishing tour. I don't dislike the videos in any way, but I kind of agree with DTwwbwMP that most fans go to see DT so the visuals actually aren't necessary. I don't see anyone complaining in the JP tour about the lack of visuals. People are just generally awe struck watching these guys play at a very high level. I say this in that I really hope the "extras" don't dictate the set list and not necessarily that I think they should scale back the show.
So you don't appreciate at all the band putting on a show? would you enjoy it the same (maybe with a discount on the ticket price) if they were just playing in a room with basic lightning and no kind of added visual bonus at all?
I would say my dream DT concert might very well be this. A GA ballroom with seats in the back, no special stage, just the band out there performing fully live without click. If DT pulled off a show the same way MP's Shattered Fortress did in NYC, I would be happy with that.
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As far as i'm concerned in regard to DT, I could CARE LESS about video screens, click tracks, graphics, animation, blah, blah, blah. They are NOT Kiss who needs that stuff! People go to DT shows for the instrumentation and the songs! I don't expect the MP days when it comes to setlists, but it would be great to have at least, alternating sets.
So you don't appreciate at all the band putting on a show? would you enjoy it the same (maybe with a discount on the ticket price) if they were just playing in a room with basic lightning and no kind of added visual bonus at all?
Granted, every band is different, and there's no magic formula for a show that applies to everyone; some shows are more basic, some are more theatrical. And every show can be technically performed by the band members wearing everyday clothes on a basic stage with just enough lightning to let people see them. But a live concert is a show, a performance, not a band rehearsal with the public attending. It's an experience, it's more than just seeing in person some guys playing music rather than watching them on YouTube playing in a room together. Maybe some people would be just fine with a very basic show, but many as well go to shows to, well, see a show, not just to watch musicians playing their music.
I don't mind them improving the production at all, but not at the cost of playing to a click and static setlists.
The thing is, they can still do both. Rush (the band who they almost always follow as an example) almost never used a click, triggered whatever samples were needed manually (as opposed to playing along to tape) and on recent tours had swapped out a few songs from night to night. So everything we're asking for is doable - especially with 5 guys as opposed to 3. But for whatever reason, this is one thing that they won't do like Rush. That and live backing vocals.
Rush also does not play complicated metal music. So they don't have to concentrate entirely on if they'll miss a note when triggering the sample.
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I think the only time DT's videos were actually important to the show were from the Astonishing tour. I don't dislike the videos in any way, but I kind of agree with DTwwbwMP that most fans go to see DT so the visuals actually aren't necessary. I don't see anyone complaining in the JP tour about the lack of visuals. People are just generally awe struck watching these guys play at a very high level. I say this in that I really hope the "extras" don't dictate the set list and not necessarily that I think they should scale back the show.
So you don't appreciate at all the band putting on a show? would you enjoy it the same (maybe with a discount on the ticket price) if they were just playing in a room with basic lightning and no kind of added visual bonus at all?
I would say my dream DT concert might very well be this. A GA ballroom with seats in the back, no special stage, just the band out there performing fully live without click. If DT pulled off a show the same way MP's Shattered Fortress did in NYC, I would be happy with that.
I'm with you, Marc. I'd be first in line for that.
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I dunno guys, I really enjoyed the stage show.
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I can't believe the band is returning to London so soon within less than a year. Still, I am looking forward to their show in London on 21st Feb.
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I like Dream Theater's stage shows for the most part. I was really into what they had going for Distance Over Time.
This tour was really cool, hope Europeans enjoy it!
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Just booked flights and accommodation for Glasgow. Tickets are released on Friday.
I saw them in Belfast earlier in the year, but I didn’t care for the arena venue much - I don’t think it suited them. The Armadillo is a much better venue for DT.
I do hope they change up the set list a bit for this leg, for a bit of variety.
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Rush also does not play complicated metal music. So they don't have to concentrate entirely on if they'll miss a note when triggering the sample.
I'm no musician, but AFAIK, Rush's music is pretty complicated. Especially for Geddy juggling bass, keyboards and vocals. Someone who's a musician feel free to correct me.
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I dunno guys, I really enjoyed the stage show.
I did as well. I really liked how they surrounded the video screen with the cover art backdrop. I especially really enjoyed watching the backing video during A View From The Top of The World, which everything that went on in that video is what the song is about. Seeing the video for "Rapture of The Deep" made me realize what it's about, I went..."Oh, now it makes sense" It's about deep diving into the sea.
I think the only time DT's videos were actually important to the show were from the Astonishing tour. I don't dislike the videos in any way, but I kind of agree with DTwwbwMP that most fans go to see DT so the visuals actually aren't necessary. I don't see anyone complaining in the JP tour about the lack of visuals. People are just generally awe struck watching these guys play at a very high level. I say this in that I really hope the "extras" don't dictate the set list and not necessarily that I think they should scale back the show.
So you don't appreciate at all the band putting on a show? would you enjoy it the same (maybe with a discount on the ticket price) if they were just playing in a room with basic lightning and no kind of added visual bonus at all?
I would say my dream DT concert might very well be this. A GA ballroom with seats in the back, no special stage, just the band out there performing fully live without click. If DT pulled off a show the same way MP's Shattered Fortress did in NYC, I would be happy with that.
It actually doesn't matter to me whether a band has stage production or not. Actually, the less stage production, the more likelihood they can play a venue in my state.
But I also understand that bands want to present a fantastic stage production as well.
If you were to ask me about stage production and backing tracks, I feel every Symphonic Metal band should have an orchestra tour with them. But, my dream stage production for those bands is impossible with the logistics of touring.
I also do not think the "extras" dictate the set. But, If you're a band that tours on the new album, and the theme for the set design is based on the album, wouldn't you want songs that fit along with the theme and style of the songs.
I am saying this...A lot goes into these shows where it's more than just guys playing music on stage.
Music is a business and fans need to also understand that if they do not see shows, or buy things from the music business, it won't last and these bands will continue to struggle to tour. Humans do not realize how much of a luxury entertainment is, and in this type of economic downfall, entertainment is the first thing to go as human priorities begin to change and less people can afford going to shows, and therefore make some careful considerations to justify going to the show, and to justify paying that much to see a show in the nosebleeds. This is why I don't care and just try my best to go regardless of the setlist, backing tracks, clicks, and all the small dumb things some fans complain about. Because who knows what can happen and the band might not be able to tour anymore.
I'm sorry for the long rant, but I do find it sort of funny and amusing that bands are struggling to fill the seats, yet you have people not bothering to go because of set-lists not being to their liking, the click tracks, and various other small things that these bands utilize. And then you have people there in the venue wondering why it's empty. :corn :lol
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I'm sorry for the long rant, but I do find it sort of funny and amusing that bands are struggling to fill the seats, yet you have people not bothering to go because of set-lists not being to their liking, the click tracks, and various other small things that these bands utilize. And then you have people there in the venue wondering why it's empty. :corn :lol
Maybe it might be more profitable for them if they didn't invest so much in putting on a show and instead worried about the performance and content (which is the real substance of a concert).... ;)
I'll say this specifically about DT: in all the time that MP was in the band, I don't recall ever hearing or reading a post of someone complaining about the light and/or video show, saying they won't go because of it.
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I don't think anyone here is really complaining about not going either, maybe due to the setlist but not because of the lights/video show. That all adds to the band performing. I'm not even complaining.
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I don't think we'll see Octavarium played live until maybe the next tour.
If they add Octavarium to the setlist then they better come back to NA for a second leg.
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Pretty sure they are coming back to NA.
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As far as i'm concerned in regard to DT, I could CARE LESS about video screens, click tracks, graphics, animation, blah, blah, blah. They are NOT Kiss who needs that stuff! People go to DT shows for the instrumentation and the songs! I don't expect the MP days when it comes to setlists, but it would be great to have at least, alternating sets.
So you don't appreciate at all the band putting on a show?
DT has NEVER "put on a show" (with the one exception possibly being the Astonishing tour)! The screens, animation, etc have added ZERO VALUE IMO. Many bands throughout history have augmented the music tremendously (especially in the '70's) but DT IMO, is ALL ABOUT the instrumentation. Fabulous musicians ALL, and that's why they get people to their shows IMO.
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It's good to see they'll do another tour BUT if they don't change setlist, at least 3-5 songs, there will be no interest for them.
Agreed, at least for the folks who saw the tour in '22. I just think it is LAZY if they don't switch things up, and I for one would DEFINITELY not go again.
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As far as i'm concerned in regard to DT, I could CARE LESS about video screens, click tracks, graphics, animation, blah, blah, blah. They are NOT Kiss who needs that stuff! People go to DT shows for the instrumentation and the songs! I don't expect the MP days when it comes to setlists, but it would be great to have at least, alternating sets.
So you don't appreciate at all the band putting on a show? would you enjoy it the same (maybe with a discount on the ticket price) if they were just playing in a room with basic lightning and no kind of added visual bonus at all?
I don't mind them improving the production at all, but not at the cost of playing to a click and static setlists. The thing is, they can still do both.
:tup :tup :tup
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I think the only time DT's videos were actually important to the show were from the Astonishing tour. I don't dislike the videos in any way, but I kind of agree with DTwwbwMP that most fans go to see DT so the visuals actually aren't necessary. I don't see anyone complaining in the JP tour about the lack of visuals. People are just generally awe struck watching these guys play at a very high level. I say this in that I really hope the "extras" don't dictate the set list and not necessarily that I think they should scale back the show.
So you don't appreciate at all the band putting on a show? would you enjoy it the same (maybe with a discount on the ticket price) if they were just playing in a room with basic lightning and no kind of added visual bonus at all?
I would say my dream DT concert might very well be this. A GA ballroom with seats in the back, no special stage, just the band out there performing fully live without click. If DT pulled off a show the same way MP's Shattered Fortress did in NYC, I would be happy with that.
I'm with you, Marc. I'd be first in line for that.
2nd! ;) ;) ;)
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I'm sorry for the long rant, but I do find it sort of funny and amusing that bands are struggling to fill the seats, yet you have people not bothering to go because of set-lists not being to their liking, the click tracks, and various other small things that these bands utilize. And then you have people there in the venue wondering why it's empty. :corn :lol
Maybe it might be more profitable for them if they didn't invest so much in putting on a show and instead worried about the performance and content (which is the real substance of a concert).... ;)
I'll say this specifically about DT: in all the time that MP was in the band, I don't recall ever hearing or reading a post of someone complaining about the light and/or video show, saying they won't go because of it.
ABSOF'NLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I'll say this specifically about DT: in all the time that MP was in the band, I don't recall ever hearing or reading a post of someone complaining about the light and/or video show, saying they won't go because of it.
Not only that, but since he's left, I haven't heard anyone rave about it either.
Although I will say that the DT12 tour had a fucking awesome huge video screen.
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I'll say this specifically about DT: in all the time that MP was in the band, I don't recall ever hearing or reading a post of someone complaining about the light and/or video show, saying they won't go because of it.
Not only that, but since he's left, I haven't heard anyone rave about it either.
I have. Many times over.
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I hope they document this tour for a live concert video release. It would be a shame if this one slips through the cracks like The Astonishing tour..
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The staging, video production, and lighting have been exceptionally better since MP has left the band. They have hired actual production and lighting companies to do to. I’m assuming that’s not how they did it before by the way JP has talked about it. And there were some video sequences I noticed that they kept reusing even for different songs from TOT tour all the way through at least SC.
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I'll say this specifically about DT: in all the time that MP was in the band, I don't recall ever hearing or reading a post of someone complaining about the light and/or video show, saying they won't go because of it.
Not only that, but since he's left, I haven't heard anyone rave about it either.
I have. Many times over.
OK, technically, sure. But my point is that I don't think it's an overriding thing where it truly outweighs what many people are complaining about.
Personally, I don't have a preference to pre or post MP. Every show I have seen has been great throughout the years.
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I'll say this specifically about DT: in all the time that MP was in the band, I don't recall ever hearing or reading a post of someone complaining about the light and/or video show, saying they won't go because of it.
Not only that, but since he's left, I haven't heard anyone rave about it either.
I have. Many times over.
OK, technically, sure. But my point is that I don't think it's an overriding thing where it truly outweighs what many people are complaining about.
Personally, I don't have a preference to pre or post MP. Every show I have seen has been great throughout the years.
Agree 100% with this. I have loved them live with every lineup variation I've seen back to 1994. While I enjoy the stage set up/production of the current tours, I do miss the improvisation and setlist variation from night to night. The one drawback to that is missing something that you REALLY wanted to see. For example, seeing JP/MP/DL recently - I love Gemini and specifically the part that was replaced live to make room for improvs. It was the one lowlight of the show, and only because I could listen to him play in that style for an entire album. Seeing JP's post recently about the way the improvs in his show have evolved, and his excitement about it, I do hope some of that re-appears in DT shows going forward.
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So as far as the improvisation, I can go either way. I thought the Solitary Shell '09 version, with MP coming out from behind the kit...I don't know. It just seemed so forced.
Playing to a click...I honestly don't care about that. At the end of the day, they are still playing their instruments. I don't care that it's at the same tempo as the album. It's not like I ever thought after a concert that "Gee, I really loved in the second verse of (whatever song) that they played it a bit slower (or faster)." Again, as long as they're still actually playing their instruments, I'm good at whatever tempo.
The rotating setlists...I think this really matters to the bootleggers. And I admit, I miss it too. It kept me way more engaged in a tour, even though I was only going to one show. Watching the different setlists was like waking up and looking at the sports scores from the night before. You'd have live versions of so many more songs from a tour. But as far as it impacted my ONE show, it really didn't matter unless the city before me got a bunch of songs that I would've preferred.
Personally, I think the JP led DT has underestimated the sneaky effective fan engagement of rotating setlists.
Yes, the video presentation HAS improved. The lighting, to me, is a wash.
The setlists from tour to tour has been excellent. They have been conscious of trying to not repeat songs from tour to tour, and the selection of songs played in the MM Era has been pretty expansive.
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I just mostly miss their older songs. I wish they would play more songs from Awake and FII. I thought songs from those two albums are underrated and we need to hear them live more these days.
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Awake has been largely represented in the MM Era.
Other than the TA, I&W&B, and the DoT tours, they've had an Awake song in there with 8 of the 11 songs represented.
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Ł115 for top priced seats at Hammersmith - not cheap. Think I saw that even standing at the rear of the circle was Ł46.
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Ł115 for top priced seats at Hammersmith - not cheap. Think I saw that even standing at the rear of the circle was Ł46.
I got myself a pair of tickets just a few rows in front of the stage this morning, but yes, they are not cheap at all. They are Ł118 each all-in. Well, since I missed their last two tours, I thought it is alright to go for the expensive seats this time.
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Ł115 for top priced seats at Hammersmith - not cheap. Think I saw that even standing at the rear of the circle was Ł46.
I got myself a pair of tickets just a few rows in front of the stage this morning, but yes, they are not cheap at all. They are Ł118 each all-in. Well, since I missed their last two tours, I thought it is alright to go for the expensive seats this time.
I did too for London, I'll go the Birmingham show too as thats local for me, not sure about Manchester now given the cost.
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The setlists from tour to tour has been excellent. They have been conscious of trying to not repeat songs from tour to tour, and the selection of songs played in the MM Era has been pretty expansive.
With a few exceptions (AIA, PMU, TSCO), I agree, they've done a great job with that for the MM era.
As for the bolded, definitely. They've already played a little bit over half of the MP era tracks (50+) AND all but 9 of the songs from the last 5 albums.
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They've already played a little bit over half of the MP era tracks (50+) AND all but 9 of the songs from the last 5 albums.
STR, R137, S2N, OOR, VK, ATC, SG, TT. What's the other song they haven't play?
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They've already played a little bit over half of the MP era tracks (50+) AND all but 9 of the songs from the last 5 albums.
STR, R137, S2N, OOR, VK, ATC, SG, TT. What's the other song they haven't play?
I counted False Awakening Suite because it's a full band instrumental that hasn't been played, but I don't think they'll ever do it.
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Gotcha, yeah I guess technically, it hasn't been played lived even though it the intro to the self titled tour.
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I don't think anyone here is really complaining about not going either, maybe due to the setlist but not because of the lights/video show.
...and this is *exactly* my point. If the reason why setlists aren't be rotated is largely because the production makes it too difficult to swap out some songs from show to show, then cut back on the production and switch out the songs.
The rotating setlists...I think this really matters to the bootleggers. And I admit, I miss it too. It kept me way more engaged in a tour, even though I was only going to one show.
Wat. Since when have you only gone to one show per tour? While I know you didn't roadtrip the way I did, I was under the impression you'd hit at least a couple of shows that were in your area on each tour.
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I don't think anyone here is really complaining about not going either, maybe due to the setlist but not because of the lights/video show.
...and this is *exactly* my point. If the reason why setlists aren't be rotated is largely because the production makes it too difficult to swap out some songs from show to show, then cut back on the production and switch out the songs.
Yup, that was part of my initial point regarding this. I have no issue with the production. I don't think it's top of the line, but the effort is there and it's a nice addition to the show. But if the production is the reason they aren't able to swap songs, then I think it should be cut back too. That's just me though, I prefer the song rotations and randomness over the stage show.
Having said that, I saw AFI last week. They do completely different sets each night and already played ~50 different songs on their current tour. They don't have a stage show besides lighting. But I noticed, all the songs still seemed to have unique lighting. nothing special or over the top, but they played a rare song at my show that had lighting designed for it. Maybe some get away with having 50 songs prepped for low level lighting instead of paying for high quality lighting for 10 songs? I'm sure there's a trade off here with different lighting rigs and set ups, plus a dedicated lighting crew to bring on tour.
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The rotating setlists...I think this really matters to the bootleggers. And I admit, I miss it too. It kept me way more engaged in a tour, even though I was only going to one show.
Wat. Since when have you only gone to one show per tour? While I know you didn't roadtrip the way I did, I was under the impression you'd hit at least a couple of shows that were in your area on each tour.
Oh, well, I saw multiple shows early on, but the SFAM tour once. I didn't see them again until Gigantour in '05 and saw the '06 show.
I only saw the first SC show in '07 and didn't go to the '08 show,. . I did see them on both legs of the BC&SL tour.
For the MM Era, I saw both legs of the ADTOE tour. I think they only came through once on the DT12 tour.
I missed both legs of the TA tour and skipped the I&W&B tour. I think they only came through once on the DoT tour and so far just once on this tour.
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I'll say this specifically about DT: in all the time that MP was in the band, I don't recall ever hearing or reading a post of someone complaining about the light and/or video show, saying they won't go because of it.
But he left the band many years ago and technical possibilities evolve. There is so much these days a man can build in on Tour and I'm thrilled by what and how they perform live. It so happend that I saw Transatlantic live this year and although I loved it... on quality level there was a huge difference, to what Dream Theater brought earlier this year and what Portnoy and his lovely bandmates came up with. Dream Theater was a total different appearance, much, much more complicated and professional. Funny thing by the way, in Transatlantic Portnoy uses the same setlist on tour as well.
So I don't know, I wished I was a fan back in the days where Portnoy was in but the Mangini-period gives me so much to love either. I'm with Ben_Jamin, I'm on every Tour I can jump on, not knowing how much longer they'll continue. Truly aware that this also might be the last one. Although Dream Theater has the intention to continue the record studio albums in their brand new DTHQ, they are at an age that performing on such a high level isn't surely given, in years to come.
And of course, I would love to see they record some evenings for a live-vinyl release.
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I may be overthinking it, but I think there is a chance they will play ToT in its entirety on this tour. Look, they played the entire I&W in 2017 on its 25th anniversary. Then they played the entire SfaM in 2020. 2023 is the 20th year since ToT was released. Sure, I know the tour is called the "Top Of The World" tour, but this tour is less than a year since the conclusion of the first one. I just don't think they will repeat themselves too much on this second go around.
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I may be overthinking it, but I think there is a chance they will play ToT in its entirety on this tour. Look, they played the entire I&W in 2017 on its 25th anniversary. Then they played the entire SfaM in 2020. 2023 is the 20th year since ToT was released.
Yeah, except that whole “we’re done with playing full anniversary albums” announcement from JP kinda tends to disagree.
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If that is happening, they missed the perfect opportunity to call it "ToT Of The World Tour."
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The look and feel of the show (the presentation) is a lot higher caliber and more professional than it was in the old days, and that is something that the band wanted. They aren't going to give that up. There has been a steady progression, from them playing clubs with just a light show and no one knowing about them other than their fan base, to having a professional presentation and being nominated for - and winning - a Grammy. I just don't see them moving backwards on that.
Having said that, yes, I wish they would be less reliant on clicks/backing tracks. But that most likely isn't going to happen, which means there will be little, if any, set list changes in the foreseeable future.
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I think people wouldn't mind the click/more complex production so much if DT brought back some of those other elements (rotating some songs, improv spots, etc). The closest to this has been the ADTOE tour, where they had at least two rotating setlists and a few improv spots here and there. On the IWAB tour they did add some extra sections for the IAW songs, but the setlist didn't change from night to night.
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I think people wouldn't mind the click/more complex production so much if DT brought back some of those other elements (rotating some songs, improv spots, etc).
I have to agree with this. But also, I feel like this is the time, I have to point out that I haven’t liked either ending they’ve done for Finally Free with Mangini anywhere near as much as Overture 2000 (that One Last Time instrumental reprise). So when they do add something extra to the songs, it doesn’t always work for me. I didn’t even think that putting the extended drum solo into Metropolis where it was on the IWB tour was all that strong. It just felt like “oh yeah, here’s the drum solo. Oh, he’s done? I think this is where we left off”.
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I think people wouldn't mind the click/more complex production so much if DT brought back some of those other elements (rotating some songs, improv spots, etc).
I have to agree with this. But also, I feel like this is the time, I have to point out that I haven’t liked either ending they’ve done for Finally Free with Mangini anywhere near as much as Overture 2000 (that One Last Time instrumental reprise). So when they do add something extra to the songs, it doesn’t always work for me. I didn’t even think that putting the extended drum solo into Metropolis where it was on the IWB tour was all that strong. It just felt like “oh yeah, here’s the drum solo. Oh, he’s done? I think this is where we left off”.
I also loved that they ended SFAM with the ending from the Metropolis Pt.2 live rehearsal demo.
But I also like how they ended it live with the static going out into the Encore.
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Well JP just confirmed there will be a couple changes to the set including playing songs never played before. https://twitter.com/dreamtheaternet/status/1593329165625077760 (https://twitter.com/dreamtheaternet/status/1593329165625077760)
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Oh finally Raw Dog hits the stage.
I mean that is a good news. Surrender To Reason, Room 137 and Sleeping Giant are my guess.
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Great news! :metal :metal :metal
And I wouldn't mind them playing Raw Dog for real at all :lol
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Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it's just the songs from the new album, ATC and SG most likely. I would love if we get S2N, STR, so we will see :corn
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Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it's just the songs from the new album, ATC and SG most likely. I would love if we get S2N, STR, so we will see :corn
Yeah I would guess it's more likely the new songs and not the few from past releases, but who knows. I'd love S2N but I'd also be pretty bummed if Europe got it and not NA.
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Excellent news, regardless of which songs they are.
Other than Raw Dog, of course.
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Well JP just confirmed there will be a couple changes to the set including playing songs never played before. https://twitter.com/dreamtheaternet/status/1593329165625077760 (https://twitter.com/dreamtheaternet/status/1593329165625077760)
Now, when he says "never played before", does that also include songs the band has not played with Mangini before. If so, I would absolutely love to see Stream of Consciousness, and especially Octavarium. I will buy a ticket right off the bat if I find out either of these songs gets played and they do a 2nd US leg.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it's just the songs from the new album, ATC and SG most likely. I would love if we get S2N, STR, so we will see :corn
Yeah I would guess it's more likely the new songs and not the few from past releases, but who knows. I'd love S2N but I'd also be pretty bummed if Europe got it and not NA.
It would be awesome if they did Answering The Call, Surrender to Reason, or S2N. But, I think the one more likely would be Sleeping Giant replacing a longer song like Bridges In The Sky.
Watch them bust out Out of Reach. I actually wouldn't mind that at all, even though I don't really listen to it much, I think it will come across great live.
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Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it's just the songs from the new album......
That's all it is. :tdwn
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I hope they come back to the USA next year. I wanna hear those new tracks!
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I&W and SFAM were played at anniversary shows because they are the 2 most beloved and popular albums. Train of Thought is neither of those things and has no chance to be played in its entirety.
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Well, just bought a ticket to Birmingham Symphony Hall in February, and OMG those ticket prices! I know everything is going up, but that's unjustifiable for a band like DT playing at this level. It's not like they're the Stones or Springsteen or Adele. I know, if I don't want to pay it, don't go, but still, that's quite a hike!
Having missed the 2022 setlist, I'd be happy if they played that again. Whatever they change, I hope TCOTuscany remains.
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They’re playing You Not Me. Jordan just doesn’t realize they played it like twice before. 😂
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Playing Disappear 2 times and Repentance 1 time can be considered "never played"? Please...
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Surrender to reason might get a debut. Calling it now.
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Seriously though, S2N and Sleeping Giant would be great.
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I&W and SFAM were played at anniversary shows because they are the 2 most beloved and popular albums. Train of Thought is neither of those things and has no chance to be played in its entirety.
That's my feeling as well. But it would be cool if they acknowledged it by putting a couple of songs in the set.
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I&W and SFAM were played at anniversary shows because they are the 2 most beloved and popular albums. Train of Thought is neither of those things and has no chance to be played in its entirety.
That's my feeling as well. But it would be cool if they acknowledged it by putting a couple of songs in the set.
Yeah, I don't see them touring the album in full. It would be cool if they did a one off show doing the whole album, but given how the band currently operates, I don't see that either. Endless Sacrifice was already in the setlist, I'd be that stays but not sure they'd add in another ToT song.
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Got my ticket for Glasgow this morning. Ł88 - ouch!!
Wonder if all the tickets in this leg are as pricey?
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If I were president of DT, my call would be: Somewhere in the middle of the set, play SOC, which gives James a nice break. After that, he comes out, acknowledges the anniversary and says they are doing one more song, and they then go into ITNOG.
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If I were president of DT, my call would be: Somewhere in the middle of the set, play SOC, which gives James a nice break. After that, he comes out, acknowledges the anniversary and says they are doing one more song, and they then go into ITNOG.
Maybe replace TCOT with ITNOG to close things out. Really hoping they don’t take the easy way out and simply add As I Am.
I wonder if they tip their cap to TOT, if they’ll keep Endless Sacrifice in the set.
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Considering the response from ES on the last tour, I'd be surprised if they rotated it out. I'd say the prime suspects to be swapped out are 6:00, Invisible Monster, and The Ministry of Lost Souls. Just my own feeling based on crowd response from the two shows I saw and comments I've read here. Replacing TMOLS might actually open up time for 2 more songs.
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Would be happy if they'd switched TCOT out for ITNOG and leave room for S2N. But SG, TT and ATC seem the most obvious choices.
And ooh, Disappear, I'd love to experience it live.
Underrated song. But that one seems not likely at all.
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I love Disappear, would be cool to hear it.
A big yes to Sleeping Giant, but a big no to S2N. I don’t care for that song at all - it’s a skipper for me.
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Surrender to reason might get a debut. Calling it now.
Yes. I don't know why this song has not been played live already. It is a great progressive DT song that doesn't instantly make me think "Rush influence right here."
Unfortunately I don't think it fits into the setlist, which generally skews longer, heavier and darker-- but if they dropped About to Crash, it might work.
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Question, are these new dates Evening With format, or will they still have an opening?
If no opening, they might just add new songs and keep the ones they are playing as it is, breaking it with an intermission of course.
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The shows in UK are announced with support act (see Instagram).
I guess this means EU will get the same kind of set/DT-time with an opening act, yet to be announced.
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a big no to S2N. I don’t care for that song at all - it’s a skipper for me.
WOW ! :mehlin
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Got my ticket for Glasgow this morning. Ł88 - ouch!!
Wonder if all the tickets in this leg are as pricey?
Which section are those tickets in? When I looked, anything even remotely close to the stage was Ł95 face value and another FIFTEEN in fees. I just can't justify that anymore unfortunately, especially when you add on travel/accommodation costs.
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a big no to S2N. I don’t care for that song at all - it’s a skipper for me.
WOW ! :mehlin
(https://media.tenor.com/jBvWbVcN4ioAAAAC/owen-wilson-owen.gif)
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You did it wrong.
:wow:
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If they play Stream of Consciousness I would hope they play Vacant first.
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Got my ticket for Glasgow this morning. Ł88 - ouch!!
Wonder if all the tickets in this leg are as pricey?
Which section are those tickets in? When I looked, anything even remotely close to the stage was Ł95 face value and another FIFTEEN in fees. I just can't justify that anymore unfortunately, especially when you add on travel/accommodation costs.
I hear you, it’s pretty steep, especially with the cost of living increases we’re currently seeing. :sad:
Mine is in the Stalls, row U. https://www.stub.com/sec-armadillo-tickets/
I think the top price I saw, without any of the extras, just the seat only slightly closer to the front was Ł109, excl fees. I couldn’t justify that, since I’m paying about the same as that for flights and accommodation already.
Besides, if they do end up playing S2N, it’s going to feel like even worse value for money… ;)
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Got my ticket for Glasgow this morning. Ł88 - ouch!!
Wonder if all the tickets in this leg are as pricey?
Which section are those tickets in? When I looked, anything even remotely close to the stage was Ł95 face value and another FIFTEEN in fees. I just can't justify that anymore unfortunately, especially when you add on travel/accommodation costs.
I hear you, it’s pretty steep, especially with the cost of living increases we’re currently seeing. :sad:
Mine is in the Stalls, row U. https://www.stub.com/sec-armadillo-tickets/
I think the top price I saw, without any of the extras, just the seat only slightly closer to the front was Ł109, excl fees. I couldn’t justify that, since I’m paying about the same as that for flights and accommodation already.
Besides, if they do end up playing S2N, it’s going to feel like even worse value for money… ;)
That's not as bad as I thought then. I must not have looked properly, as I thought even the back row of the stalls was more expensive than Ł88.
Unfortunately it's nothing like the past, when I was lucky enough to get second row for the I&W and Beyond tour for Ł59 including fees!
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If I were president of DT, my call would be: Somewhere in the middle of the set, play SOC, which gives James a nice break. After that, he comes out, acknowledges the anniversary and says they are doing one more song, and they then go into ITNOG.
I'd be good with that! :tup
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I know everything is going up, but that's unjustifiable for a band like DT playing at this level. It's not like they're the Stones or Springsteen or Adele...
You're right, but neither the Stones, Springsteen or Adele can come close to the complexity and variety Dream Theater brings to the table. So I'll think they're easily worth the high price, even though it means I can't spend a lot these period, 'cause there aint much left over. It'll be the fifth time I'll see them perform live. I feel blessed.
I hope they'll do Answering the Call and Transcending Time, but I somehow hope for This Dying Soul and Octavarium the most (although they played them live before).
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You did it wrong.
I've been enlightened.
:wow:
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Ok ok. Owen Wilson can fuck right off. He blows.
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Well, since he has appeared in a DT song and you have not, you lose.
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I would be surprised if they changed ES for a different ToT song; they seem to enjoy playing it and the crowds love it, and they haven’t played anything else off the album (besides As I Am obviously) since MP left. That fact alone should be reason enough to finally bring back a different song, but I just don’t see it happening. I would loved to be shocked with This Dying Soul or ItNoG though (I would love to see Honor Thy Father live, but I know that’ll probably never happen).
I would guess 6:00, BitS, AtC and TMoLS will be swapped. Of the remaining MM era songs yet to be played, I really hope StR and AtC get picked up. I also hope if they swap out Ministry and AtC, they take that opportunity to bring in one of the long songs from 6DOIT they haven’t played with MM and a shorter song from one of the other albums they haven’t played this touring cycle yet.
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Well, since he has appeared in a DT song and you have not, you lose.
Oh, that's right. Hence the Wow gif. I didn't make the connection.
And I've been on a number of DT songs. If you have the Berklee '94 boot, then you've definitely heard me sing along. :lol
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:wow:
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My setlist predictions:
6:00 replaced by Just Let Me Breathe.
Bridges in the Sky replaced by Sleeping Giant.
About to Crash replaced by S2N.
Ministry of Lost Souls replaced by In the Name of God.
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My setlist predictions:
6:00 replaced by Just Let Me Breathe.
What gives you that impressio? I’ll be shocked if they do that. I love JLMB but that just seems very out of left field.
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My setlist predictions:
Ministry of Lost Souls replaced by In the Name of God.
I definitely dig that
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I could see them adding Room 137(one of my personal favs from DOT), Surrender to Reason, Out of Reach, Answering the Call, Sleeping Giant, or Transcending Time (in exchange for a handful of songs of course). Maybe they will surprise and go back into the catalogue and bring out Only a Matter of Time, Lines in the Sand, Take Away my Pain, Blind Faith, Misunderstood or Erotomania? Or they could just play A View front to back ;D - I’ve really grown to love the album.
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My setlist predictions:
6:00 replaced by Just Let Me Breathe.
Bridges in the Sky replaced by Sleeping Giant.
About to Crash replaced by S2N.
Ministry of Lost Souls replaced by In the Name of God.
I think this is plausible except I don’t think they would do both ES and INTNOG. Maybe put Sleeping Giant in place of ES. I think the set you proposed is awesome though.
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Thanks! I have no reason to think JLMB will really happen, but I think it would be crazy and unexpected and a lot of fun live.
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I would love that set, but I honestly would be surprised if any of those changes happened.
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Well, since he has appeared in a DT song and you have not, you lose.
That's not why he loses.
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There can be more than one reason. :biggrin:
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Well, since he has appeared in a DT song and you have not, you lose.
:lol
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TADC, the promotors for the show in Stockholm have filed for bancruptcy....
All concerts this year have been cancelled.what will happen to the 2023 concerts is as yet unknown.
Might be that the concert is cancelled and that ticketholders loose their money.
Good call to splurge on golden circle this time ;)
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I think same setlist. Feels like this is tour part 2 for cities they didnt visit last tour.
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I think same setlist. Feels like this is tour part 2 for cities they didnt visit last tour.
JP himself said there’d be a few changes to the set list: https://twitter.com/dreamtheaternet/status/1593329165625077760?s=46&t=T5TdZLLxPARW5tKzEIHJcg (https://twitter.com/dreamtheaternet/status/1593329165625077760?s=46&t=T5TdZLLxPARW5tKzEIHJcg)
I do get the impression from that video that’s it just one or two changes though..
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Well, Endless Sacrifice, Bridges in the Sky and Count of Tuscany are the songs I'm looking forward to seeing most, so I hope they keep those. In an ideal world I'd love to see Ministry of Lost Souls dropped for The Killing Hand (I'm still holding out hope I'll see that one day!) but I guess it's unlikely. I'd guess that adding more songs from the new album is the most likely scenario. Or As I Am, it does seem to be their Wrathchild.
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I really think the only change will be replacing Invisible Monster with Transcending Time
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I really think the only change will be replacing Invisible Monster with Transcending Time
My bet is also that, with just one more change, playing something never played live from D/T or DT.
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Right. Didn't JP say "songs"?
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Right. Didn't JP say "songs"?
Hmm, you're right, he actually said "we have a couple of changes to the set". So yeah, Maybe Answering the Call instead of Awaken the Master as well? However I have a hard time seeing them swap out the only 8-string song already. Would be neat to see something from DT12 and D/T that still has not played though.
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Right. Didn't JP say "songs"?
Hmm, you're right, he actually said "we have a couple of changes to the set". So yeah, Maybe Answering the Call instead of Awaken the Master as well? However I have a hard time seeing them swap out the only 8-string song already. Would be neat to see something from DT12 and D/T that still has not played though.
Right.
To me, the only locks in the set are The Alien, Awaken The Master and A View.
But see them only making two swaps, three at the most.
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I hope they don't replace any of the songs from the new album, it's that album they're promoting after all. I would replace Bridges, Endless Sacrifice and 6:00.
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I hope they don't replace any of the songs from the new album, it's that album they're promoting after all. I would replace Bridges, Endless Sacrifice and 6:00.
If they replace any song from the new album, it'll likely be with a different song from the new album.
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S2N + Answering the Call
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S2N + Answering the Call
This + Surrender to Reason :tup
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I wish they'll do another mini acoustic set like they did back in ADTOE tour with Disappear and Out Of Reach.
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I wish they'll do another mini acoustic set like they did back in ADTOE tour with Disappear and Out Of Reach.
If I had to sit through the excruciating Out Of Reach to also get Disappear, then I would, and it'd be especially cool in an acoustic type setting. I would not be happy if they gave a full song slot to Out Of Reach at a show though.
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I wish they'll do another mini acoustic set like they did back in ADTOE tour with Disappear and Out Of Reach.
If I had to sit through the excruciating Out Of Reach Disappear to also get Disappear Out of Reach, then I would, and it'd be especially cool in an acoustic type setting. I would not be happy if they gave a full song slot to Out Of Reach at a show though.
ftfm
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In the video JP says "we're playing some NEW music that we've never played live before." My guess is that probably means songs from AVFTTOTW, maybe DOT.
And Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate it!
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It could very well be that they drop About to Crash and 6:00 and I will be so pleased if they change those with other songs from those particular albums. Lets say, The Glass Prison and Voices. Although it will be hard to pick songs that LaBrie is still able to sing. And Voices will probably not be in this area. I think they will keep The Ministry of Lost Souls (was the high of last Tour, next to The Count) but if they don't, I hope it will be Prophets of War, that fills the void.
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I hope they do another North American run. Love this tour!
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Lets say, The Glass Prison and Voices. Although it will be hard to pick songs that LaBrie is still able to sing. And Voices will probably not be in this area.
Yeah, I think Voices won't return to the setlist because it's so vocally challenging (I don't think they're willing to abridge it to skip the most difficult vocal section), but I also think TGP is also off the table - too challenging for JP to play cleanly enough to where he'd be willing to add it to the setlist.
I hope they do another North American run. Love this tour!
Given that they're doing a second run through Europe and they've talked about spending a lot of 2023 touring, I would expect another run through North America will happen, especially if there's some changes to the setlist as JP says there will be.
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Has JP ever dropped a song before because it was too difficult to play cleanly? I just can't see him holding back an awesome song like TGP from a future setlist for that reason.
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It could very well be that they drop About to Crash....
I'm not the hugest fan of ATC, but I thought it was a great choice with perfect placement for this set.
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Lets say, The Glass Prison and Voices. Although it will be hard to pick songs that LaBrie is still able to sing. And Voices will probably not be in this area.
Yeah, I think Voices won't return to the setlist because it's so vocally challenging (I don't think they're willing to abridge it to skip the most difficult vocal section), but I also think TGP is also off the table - too challenging for JP to play cleanly enough to where he'd be willing to add it to the setlist.
I hope they do another North American run. Love this tour!
Given that they're doing a second run through Europe and they've talked about spending a lot of 2023 touring, I would expect another run through North America will happen, especially if there's some changes to the setlist as JP says there will be.
I would hope so, I really enjoyed the last tour. Hell I'll just be happy to see them.
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Has JP ever dropped a song before because it was too difficult to play cleanly? I just can't see him holding back an awesome song like TGP from a future setlist for that reason.
It has been said for a while now that The Glass Prison has been avoided specifically for that reason.
I don't know if there is any official reference to that, though.
If you see footage from the Gigantour (2005, and if I'm not mistaken they've not played it since) you can notice JP using alternate picking for the intro instead of sweep picking. I think the main factor was the tempo being faster because MP used to do that during lives.
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If you see footage from the Gigantour (2005, and if I'm not mistaken they've not played it since)
Well, the 8V tour in '06, but yeah, the same tour cycle.
I don't know if there is any official reference to that, though.
I am not familiar with one.
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If you see footage from the Gigantour (2005, and if I'm not mistaken they've not played it since)
Well, the 8V tour in '06, but yeah, the same tour cycle.
Yep, that tour started with the European summer leg (first time I saw them live, June 23rd 2005 with Labyrinth and Angra opening), and last time TGP was played was in Wallingford, CT on March 29th 2006.
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Has JP ever dropped a song before because it was too difficult to play cleanly? I just can't see him holding back an awesome song like TGP from a future setlist for that reason.
I can see him doing it for that reason. I mean, just the fact that (as has been pointed out), it hasn't been played for 16 years now says something, even if unspoken.
I'm not aware of any song being ignored or dropped for that reason, but I do know that JP is very particular about playing cleanly, and I know he has publicly regretted copying what JR does from 2:22-2:52 in TGP which was a real struggle for him to perform live. And I'm almost positive he also struggled a lot with the instrumental section in BF where he doubled JR from about 7:56-8:23. That's why I don't think either of those songs will be played again as long as JP is in control of the setlist.
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Do we have any idea who the opening act on the next European leg will be?
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Do we have any idea who the opening act on the next European leg will be?
Me. They saw my cover of Beneath the Surface on YouTube after 7 years and thought I’d be a good fit with my solo acoustic shows. Personally, I am packing it, but if DT have faith in me, well, I gotta answer the call.
In all seriousness, no, I don’t think it’s been confirmed as yet.
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Sons of Apollo is opening.
Kidding! But now that Portnoy is on friendly terms with DT, maybe one day?
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Sons of Apollo is opening.
Kidding! But now that Portnoy is on friendly terms with DT, maybe one day?
Nothing official, but it seems like SOA don't have any plans to continue anytime soon...
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Sons of Apollo is opening.
Kidding! But now that Portnoy is on friendly terms with DT, maybe one day?
Nothing official, but it seems like SOA don't have any plans to continue anytime soon...
Probably due to Derek's glowing personality.
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That's a shame. Their music was a lot of fun.
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It's such a great personnel lineup but I found the songs a little lackluster. Sometimes those supergroups underperform expectations by a mile. Chickenfoot comes to mind along with Sons of Apollo. The songs were not bad by any means, but on paper I expected better songwriting.
It boggles the mind how DT- a supergroup in its own way- manages to write its best material after 10 albums and 25 years.
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It's such a great personnel lineup but I found the songs a little lackluster. Sometimes those supergroups underperform expectations by a mile. Chickenfoot comes to mind along with Sons of Apollo. The songs were not bad by any means, but on paper I expected better songwriting.
It has always been the case.
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It's such a great personnel lineup but I found the songs a little lackluster. Sometimes those supergroups underperform expectations by a mile. Chickenfoot comes to mind along with Sons of Apollo. The songs were not bad by any means, but on paper I expected better songwriting.
It has always been the case.
I think Winery Dogs had 1 brilliant album (first one). Flying Colors too. The following albums in each case were nowhere near as good, in my humble opinion, but both debuts were gems.
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Black Country Communion is a good example of a supergroup that worked really well, I can't remember of bad songs from them at all. Really good chemistry
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Has JP ever dropped a song before because it was too difficult to play cleanly? I just can't see him holding back an awesome song like TGP from a future setlist for that reason.
I can see him doing it for that reason. I mean, just the fact that (as has been pointed out), it hasn't been played for 16 years now says something, even if unspoken.
I'm not aware of any song being ignored or dropped for that reason, but I do know that JP is very particular about playing cleanly, and I know he has publicly regretted copying what JR does from 2:22-2:52 in TGP which was a real struggle for him to perform live. And I'm almost positive he also struggled a lot with the instrumental section in BF where he doubled JR from about 7:56-8:23. That's why I don't think either of those songs will be played again as long as JP is in control of the setlist.
That's a shame, because I would love to see both of those songs live. I did get to see TGP when Portnoy at the Shattered Fortress show.
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i've seen the glass prison live, but considering the upcoming show will probably my last time i'll go see them i hope they throw out count for prison
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDcXlFl1guM
now we know one of the new songs they're playing :-)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDcXlFl1guM
now we know one of the new songs they're playing :-)
Could be!
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Ah just the best song on A View... I hope they pull it out and it makes its way to the US
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I really, really like Answering the Call so that would be just fine by me. Curious which one would be cut off. I think it'll be Invinsible Monster.
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I'd take Sleeping Giant over Answering the Call.
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The only one I'd actually be excited about is Transcending time.
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Any chance they go to an Evening With format this time, so none of the previous songs have to be pulled to make room for the new ones?
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Any chance they go to an Evening With format this time, so none of the previous songs have to be pulled to make room for the new ones?
The announcement says "plus support", so not this time.
(https://scontent.flim8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/316311290_687035466121656_8375596444992957323_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=RTBBfJQ_ApkAX-o3l-y&_nc_ht=scontent.flim8-1.fna&oh=00_AfCAY3FDZw62DU25z6qiN__NwPfCgpqW702EDQyUR-4kNw&oe=638E8047)
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I’m just hoping that the 2023 leg includes a more complete Oceania leg. Download Japan and Jakarta do not an Asian tour make and Australia’s still waiting from getting COVIDed out.
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Pretty much a confirmation for sleeping giant
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CmPgGCmNV68/?igshid=MWI4MTIyMDE=
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Damn. ATC and SG are hinted at, yet I'd enjoy Transcending time the most.
By the way, do we have anyone from Naples to keep us up to date on the set list during the first night?
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Damn. ATC and SG are hinted at, yet I'd enjoy Transcending time the most.
By the way, do we have anyone from Naples to keep us up to date on the set list during the first night?
They will start in Tel Aviv (my hometown). I’ll update post show :)
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Pretty much a confirmation for sleeping giant
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CmPgGCmNV68/?igshid=MWI4MTIyMDE=
:tup :tup :tup
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So Answering the Call is replacing Invisible Monster and Sleeping Giant is replacing Awaken the Master? That’s my guess. Probably switch out a couple of the older tunes. They’ll keep The Alien for sure. Probably keep the title track and TCOT.
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So Answering the Call is replacing Invisible Monster and Sleeping Giant is replacing Awaken the Master? That’s my guess. Probably switch out a couple of the older tunes. They’ll keep The Alien for sure. Probably keep the title track and TCOT.
As much as I love TCOT, I think it'd be best to drop it and keep as much AVFTTOTW tracks as possible. Drop BITS too.
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So Answering the Call is replacing Invisible Monster and Sleeping Giant is replacing Awaken the Master? That’s my guess. Probably switch out a couple of the older tunes. They’ll keep The Alien for sure. Probably keep the title track and TCOT.
I would be *really* surprised if they dropped AtM since it's the chance for JP to show off his 8-string. Rather, I'd think that AtC and SG might alternate in IM's slot, and maybe they'll change out on of the older tunes for something different - I would hope BitS to get away from the taped vocal fiasco completely, but I don't think they will.
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Maybe they'll drop AtC for AtC 😁
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Damn. ATC and SG are hinted at, yet I'd enjoy Transcending time the most.
By the way, do we have anyone from Naples to keep us up to date on the set list during the first night?
They will start in Tel Aviv (my hometown). I’ll update post show :)
Ooh, I didn't know that! I would love to follow your update. :tup
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Pretty much a confirmation for sleeping giant
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CmPgGCmNV68/?igshid=MWI4MTIyMDE=
Wouldn't go so far as to said it is confirm. Didn't they practice Room 137 and yet it didn't get played?
Not saying is not gonna happen, just saying I wouldn't take this videos as confirmation.
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According to James LaBrie, they will be touring North America this spring!
https://blabbermouth.net/news/james-labrie-doesnt-think-dream-theater-will-begin-recording-next-album-before-early-2024
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According to James LaBrie, they will be touring North America this spring!
https://blabbermouth.net/news/james-labrie-doesnt-think-dream-theater-will-begin-recording-next-album-before-early-2024
Nice. I am down for another run and I am sure my friend who went with me last time in AZ is down to see them again.
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Hearing confirmation that Dream Theater will soon return to the studio makes my heart soar every time.
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Hearing confirmation that Dream Theater will soon return to the studio makes my heart soar every time.
JP said mid to late 2023 at best. Maybe I'm not as patient as you, but that doesn't sound like soon to me at all :D
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Hearing confirmation that Dream Theater will soon return to the studio makes my heart soar every time.
Same. I was hoping for this. Plus it shouldn't conflict with the Metallica dates I have tickets to in August.
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Yeah, for a variety of reasons, my interest in Dream Theater as a live band has dropped off severely, but I will take as many studio albums as we can get from now till whenever they call it a day.
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Yeah, for a variety of reasons, my interest in Dream Theater as a live band has dropped off severely, but I will take as many studio albums as we can get from now till whenever they call it a day.
I agree. The two to three year tour cycles blow. I saw them last February. I'm ready for a new album. They'll come around with basically the same show this spring, and then it's wait another year.
I'm glad the LNF stuff has been coming though, but even that seems so half assed.
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Yeah, for a variety of reasons, my interest in Dream Theater as a live band has dropped off severely, but I will take as many studio albums as we can get from now till whenever they call it a day.
I agree. The two to three year tour cycles blow. I saw them last February. I'm ready for a new album. They'll come around with basically the same show this spring, and then it's wait another year.
I'm glad the LNF stuff has been coming though, but even that seems so half assed.
I've been ready for a new album since about November last year. ;D
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According to James LaBrie, they will be touring North America this spring!
https://blabbermouth.net/news/james-labrie-doesnt-think-dream-theater-will-begin-recording-next-album-before-early-2024
Sweet! I'm down for another run.
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Yeah, for a variety of reasons, my interest in Dream Theater as a live band has dropped off severely, but I will take as many studio albums as we can get from now till whenever they call it a day.
I agree. The two to three year tour cycles blow. I saw them last February. I'm ready for a new album. They'll come around with basically the same show this spring, and then it's wait another year.
I'm glad the LNF stuff has been coming though, but even that seems so half assed.
I've been ready for a new album since about November last year. ;D
:lol I hear ya. Man I miss the days of my youth when your favorite bands put out a killer album EVERY YEAR. Can you imagine.
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According to James LaBrie, they will be touring North America this spring!
https://blabbermouth.net/news/james-labrie-doesnt-think-dream-theater-will-begin-recording-next-album-before-early-2024
Sweet! I'm down for another run.
Heck yeah, me too! :coolio
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According to James LaBrie, they will be touring North America this spring!
https://blabbermouth.net/news/james-labrie-doesnt-think-dream-theater-will-begin-recording-next-album-before-early-2024
Sweet! I'm down for another run.
Heck yeah, me too! :coolio
and since I am behind the 8 ball, its "how many can I go to?"
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Yeah, for a variety of reasons, my interest in Dream Theater as a live band has dropped off severely, but I will take as many studio albums as we can get from now till whenever they call it a day.
I agree. The two to three year tour cycles blow. I saw them last February. I'm ready for a new album. They'll come around with basically the same show this spring, and then it's wait another year.
I'm glad the LNF stuff has been coming though, but even that seems so half assed.
I've been ready for a new album since about November last year. ;D
:lol I hear ya. Man I miss the days of my youth when your favorite bands put out a killer album EVERY YEAR. Can you imagine.
That's not what I meant...... :lol
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According to James LaBrie, they will be touring North America this spring!
https://blabbermouth.net/news/james-labrie-doesnt-think-dream-theater-will-begin-recording-next-album-before-early-2024
Sweet! I'm down for another run.
Heck yeah, me too! :coolio
and since I am behind the 8 ball, its "how many can I go to?"
Well that being said, I guess you could chalk up as many as you want.. 😁
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According to James LaBrie, they will be touring North America this spring!
https://blabbermouth.net/news/james-labrie-doesnt-think-dream-theater-will-begin-recording-next-album-before-early-2024
Sweet! I'm down for another run.
Heck yeah, me too! :coolio
and since I am behind the 8 ball, its "how many can I go to?"
Well that being said, I guess you could chalk up as many as you want.. 😁
I've been averaging 3 per tour. But I did 3 on the last leg, and this one looks to be a bit different..So..it depends on the locations!
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According to James LaBrie, they will be touring North America this spring!
https://blabbermouth.net/news/james-labrie-doesnt-think-dream-theater-will-begin-recording-next-album-before-early-2024
"And then the plan is that we're supposed to do something in the spring throughout North America. And then we'll finally get over to Asia, because we haven't been there… That was supposed to be our next leg when we finished in Glasgow in February 2020, just before the pandemic. We were supposed to be in Asia in April [2020]. That never happened. So we have to get to Asia, go through Asia. And then I think that's it."
When he refers to planned Asia dates in spring 2020, isn't that when the cancelled Australia dates were supposed to happen? If so, this sounds like he's lumping Australia with Asia, so it may be good news for DT fans down under.
Hearing confirmation that Dream Theater will soon return to the studio makes my heart soar every time.
I haven't seen any such confirmation. 13+ months isn't "soon" in my book.
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https://twitter.com/dreamtheaternet/status/1605913891267137537?s=46&t=LwttedDJQruBCOw7P_bhMA
“Significant changes to the set.”
HYPE.
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Yeah, for a variety of reasons, my interest in Dream Theater as a live band has dropped off severely, but I will take as many studio albums as we can get from now till whenever they call it a day.
I agree. The two to three year tour cycles blow. I saw them last February. I'm ready for a new album. They'll come around with basically the same show this spring, and then it's wait another year.
I'm glad the LNF stuff has been coming though, but even that seems so half assed.
I've been ready for a new album since about November last year. ;D
:lol I hear ya. Man I miss the days of my youth when your favorite bands put out a killer album EVERY YEAR. Can you imagine.
That's not what I meant...... :lol
Yeah I know that's why I had the laughing face, I got the joke.
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https://twitter.com/dreamtheaternet/status/1605913891267137537?s=46&t=LwttedDJQruBCOw7P_bhMA
“Significant changes to the set.”
HYPE.
Almost sounds like a pretty fresh and new set by this
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https://twitter.com/dreamtheaternet/status/1605913891267137537?s=46&t=LwttedDJQruBCOw7P_bhMA
“Significant changes to the set.”
HYPE.
Almost sounds like a pretty fresh and new set by this
Opens with a full playthrough of I&W followed by SFAM closing with TCOT.
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Watching that update video... Man, I know Jordan is considered 'the wizard' of the group, but Petrucci is giving off some young Saruman vibes here.
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https://twitter.com/dreamtheaternet/status/1605913891267137537?s=46&t=LwttedDJQruBCOw7P_bhMA
“Significant changes to the set.”
HYPE.
Apparently, it's time for another round of....
GUESS!...THE!...SETLIST!
:metal :metal :metal :corn :corn :corn
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Current Setlist:
The Alien
6:00
Awaken The Master
Endless Sacrifice
Bridges In The Sky
Invisible Monster
About To Crash
The Ministry of Lost Souls
A View From The Top of The World
-------------------------
The Count of Tuscany
Significantly Changed Setlist:
The Glass Prison
Answering The Call
The Alien
S2N
Endless Sacrifice
Sleeping Giant
Transcending Time
Hollow Years
AVFTTOTW
-------------
Octavarium
He did say "Significant changes and additions". My list is only if they decide to keep similar song lengths, If not, then who knows what other songs will be included, especially if those longer songs like BITS/TMOLS/ES are replaced with other shorter length songs.
What I think will happen is they'll get rid of BITS/TMOLS/6:00 for sure and swap those out with either more new album songs or something else entirely. I definitely wouldn't mind them taking out Invisible Monster and Awaken The Master to include Answering The Call/Transcending Time/Sleeping Giant into the set. I actually think that TGP would transition quite well into Answering The Call, so that is the only reason why I have it at that spot in the set.
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That would, IMO, be a SIGNIFICANT upgrade/improvement (although I'd hope they'd also swap out Endless Sacrifice for...??).
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That would, IMO, be a SIGNIFICANT upgrade/improvement (although I'd hope they'd also swap out Endless Sacrifice for...??).
Yeah, I wouldn't mind that and would prefer it. But, I also think Endless Sacrifice is the one non-new album song that feels like it belongs in the set this tour.
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Systematic Chaos has gotten a lot of love in recent setlists. Anyone think that will continue next year?
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Current Setlist:
The Alien
6:00
Awaken The Master
Endless Sacrifice
Bridges In The Sky
Invisible Monster
About To Crash
The Ministry of Lost Souls
A View From The Top of The World
-------------------------
The Count of Tuscany
Significantly Changed Setlist:
The Glass Prison
Answering The Call
The Alien
S2N
Endless Sacrifice
Sleeping Giant
Transcending Time
Hollow Years
AVFTTOTW
-------------
Octavarium
He did say "Significant changes and additions". My list is only if they decide to keep similar song lengths, If not, then who knows what other songs will be included, especially if those longer songs like BITS/TMOLS/ES are replaced with other shorter length songs.
What I think will happen is they'll get rid of BITS/TMOLS/6:00 for sure and swap those out with either more new album songs or something else entirely. I definitely wouldn't mind them taking out Invisible Monster and Awaken The Master to include Answering The Call/Transcending Time/Sleeping Giant into the set. I actually think that TGP would transition quite well into Answering The Call, so that is the only reason why I have it at that spot in the set.
That's pretty good but don't bring back 8V, TCOT is superior live IMO.
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Yeah, for a variety of reasons, my interest in Dream Theater as a live band has dropped off severely, but I will take as many studio albums as we can get from now till whenever they call it a day.
I agree. The two to three year tour cycles blow. I saw them last February. I'm ready for a new album. They'll come around with basically the same show this spring, and then it's wait another year.
I'm glad the LNF stuff has been coming though, but even that seems so half assed.
I've been ready for a new album since about November last year. ;D
:lol I hear ya. Man I miss the days of my youth when your favorite bands put out a killer album EVERY YEAR. Can you imagine.
That's not what I meant...... :lol
Yeah I know that's why I had the laughing face, I got the joke.
Oh of course, silly me. I should have picked up on that from you also. :loser:
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I wonder if the changes are happening to finally help James out a little and take into consideration his situation? Maybe a few song selections to ease some of the load on him?
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I'd honestly drop anything that isn't from A View from this year's setlist, except maybe the ATC/TMOLS duo. Please replace 6:00, Endless Sacrifice, Bridges and maybe even TCOT, as we already have official live versions of those with this lineup.
I'm assuming set times will be the same, since it seems they're still bringing an opening act, but I think they might replace some of those with more songs that are shorter.
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My wild guess is they’d play ITNOG as a tribute to TOT
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My wild guess is they’d play ITNOG as a tribute to TOT
TDS! :metal
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My wild guess is they’d play ITNOG as a tribute to TOT
TDS! :metal
We can only hope.
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According to James LaBrie, they will be touring North America this spring!
https://blabbermouth.net/news/james-labrie-doesnt-think-dream-theater-will-begin-recording-next-album-before-early-2024
"And then the plan is that we're supposed to do something in the spring throughout North America. And then we'll finally get over to Asia, because we haven't been there… That was supposed to be our next leg when we finished in Glasgow in February 2020, just before the pandemic. We were supposed to be in Asia in April [2020]. That never happened. So we have to get to Asia, go through Asia. And then I think that's it."
When he refers to planned Asia dates in spring 2020, isn't that when the cancelled Australia dates were supposed to happen? If so, this sounds like he's lumping Australia with Asia, so it may be good news for DT fans down under.
Please. Very very please. I don’t want it, I just need it, to breathe, to feel, to know I’m alive!
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A bit worried about what is happening to the Stockolm concert on thee 6th of February.
The promotor TADC has filed for bancruptcy a while ago and all concerts for 2022 were cancelled
They were looking into solving the 2023 concerts somehow but still no word on how that goes.
I would like to think that the fact that tickets are still sold is a good sign....
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So..... I just got a mail that FKP Scorpio will arrange the concert in Stockholm instead of TADC..... great news
On another note. We also got to know the support (at lrast for Stockholm) will be finnish band Arion.
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Damn. ATC and SG are hinted at, yet I'd enjoy Transcending time the most.
By the way, do we have anyone from Naples to keep us up to date on the set list during the first night?
They will start in Tel Aviv (my hometown). I’ll update post show :)
Is there a website in English where I can book tickets to Tel Aviv?
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Damn. ATC and SG are hinted at, yet I'd enjoy Transcending time the most.
By the way, do we have anyone from Naples to keep us up to date on the set list during the first night?
They will start in Tel Aviv (my hometown). I’ll update post show :)
Is there a website in English where I can book tickets to Tel Aviv?
I'm not aware of any English website. You can use this link with google translate (the funnel for purchasing a ticket is quite simple):
https://www.kupat.co.il/he-IL/events/dream%20theater/2023-1-14_22.00/האנגר%2011%20-%20תל%20אביב?hallmap
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I mostly love that hypothetical set list. But I have no idea why on earth anyone would add Hollow Years to a set list. That would just make me angry and not even want to go to the show.
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But I have no idea why on earth anyone would add Hollow Years to a set list. That would just make me angry and not even want to go to the show.
Sure, but they could play the Budokan version of it and all would be right with the world.
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No.
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I mostly love that hypothetical set list. But I have no idea why on earth anyone would add Hollow Years to a set list. That would just make me angry and not even want to go to the show.
That's just my hopeful wish that I would get to see it one day. I also actually think it'd be a good transition from Transcending Time.
I was going to put Chosen there instead. :biggrin:
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I mostly love that hypothetical set list. But I have no idea why on earth anyone would add Hollow Years to a set list. That would just make me angry and not even want to go to the show.
That's just my hopeful wish that I would get to see it one day. I also actually think it'd be a good transition from Transcending Time.
I was going to put Chosen there instead. :biggrin:
I guess I can respect that and suppress my gag reflex for the benefit of folks that like it and have never seen it.
And I would be perfectly fine with Chosen.
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And I would be perfectly fine with Chosen.
Speaking of gag reflex...
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I mostly love that hypothetical set list. But I have no idea why on earth anyone would add Hollow Years to a set list. That would just make me angry and not even want to go to the show.
Because it’s a great song. And if they play it live next year, it’ll win you over!
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I've seen it live more than once, and have seen/hard the L@B version. That only cemented it as a bottom 5 DT song.
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I mostly love that hypothetical set list. But I have no idea why on earth anyone would add Hollow Years to a set list. That would just make me angry and not even want to go to the show.
That's just my hopeful wish that I would get to see it one day. I also actually think it'd be a good transition from Transcending Time.
I was going to put Chosen there instead. :biggrin:
I guess I can respect that and suppress my gag reflex for the benefit of folks that like it and have never seen it.
And I would be perfectly fine with Chosen.
I actually had to google the song Chosen. I figured it must have been an Astonishing song. They can just not play anything from that album and they are off to a good start.
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Hollow Years is fantastic - one of my favorites from FII and I even got to see them preform the demo version live (which I don't care for as much). I would be totally down to see that one live again.
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i'd prefer Disappear to be added to the setlist
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i'd prefer Disappear to be added to the setlist
I 100% would love this.
On another note. When do you think the US leg of the tour will be announced?
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I hope they add an old pearl from Myung's pen to the setlist, Learning to Live or Lifting Shadows Off a Dream. If The Count of Tuscany is getting replaced, then to my honest opinion that could only be by Octavarium or Illumination Theory. Both would be a fantastic choice.
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i'd prefer Disappear to be added to the setlist
I would be astonished if they played that one. I would also likely cry because of how much I enjoy this songs lyrics.
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i'd prefer Disappear to be added to the setlist
I 100% would love this.
On another note. When do you think the US leg of the tour will be announced?
That's what I'm waiting for, and hopefully there will be a date in the Pacific Northwest.
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If The Count of Tuscany is getting replaced, then to my honest opinion that could only be by Octavarium or Illumination Theory. Both would be a fantastic choice.
Unfortunately, I’m not so sure the band would share that belief.
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I’m very surprised Panic Attack has not been a part of any major tour the last 10+ years (besides the 2015 festivals obviously). It’s consistently in the top 5 streamed songs on Spotify (currently #2) with more than double the plays of As I Am, solid length, great heavy concert song, and seems relatively easy for the band to play (especially JLB). It sounds great on the Wacken LNG album. And as far as I can recall, they’ve still only played 2/8 songs off of 8VM (globally) with Mangini so far. I’d love to see it make an appearance soon.
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I’m very surprised Panic Attack has not been a part of any major tour the last 10+ years (besides the 2015 festivals obviously). It’s consistently in the top 5 streamed songs on Spotify (currently #2) with more than double the plays of As I Am, solid length, great heavy concert song, and seems relatively easy for the band to play (especially JLB). It sounds great on the Wacken LNG album. And as far as I can recall, they’ve still only played 2/8 songs off of 8VM (globally) with Mangini so far. I’d love to see it make an appearance soon.
I didn't realize it was that popular on spotify. (I don't use the app) I would have never considered it a "top DT hit" although I admit, it was one of the first songs to really capture my interest in DT. (Octavarium was their newest release when I discovered them).
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I’m very surprised Panic Attack has not been a part of any major tour the last 10+ years (besides the 2015 festivals obviously). It’s consistently in the top 5 streamed songs on Spotify (currently #2) with more than double the plays of As I Am, solid length, great heavy concert song, and seems relatively easy for the band to play (especially JLB). It sounds great on the Wacken LNG album. And as far as I can recall, they’ve still only played 2/8 songs off of 8VM (globally) with Mangini so far. I’d love to see it make an appearance soon.
I didn't realize it was that popular on spotify. (I don't use the app) I would have never considered it a "top DT hit" although I admit, it was one of the first songs to really capture my interest in DT. (Octavarium was their newest release when I discovered them).
It was in Rock Band 2 as one of the hardest songs in the game. As a challenging song in a rhythm game during the peak of those types of games’ popularity, it gained some attention. That’s how I discovered the band actually.
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I’m very surprised Panic Attack has not been a part of any major tour the last 10+ years (besides the 2015 festivals obviously). It’s consistently in the top 5 streamed songs on Spotify (currently #2) with more than double the plays of As I Am, solid length, great heavy concert song, and seems relatively easy for the band to play (especially JLB). It sounds great on the Wacken LNG album. And as far as I can recall, they’ve still only played 2/8 songs off of 8VM (globally) with Mangini so far. I’d love to see it make an appearance soon.
I didn't realize it was that popular on spotify. (I don't use the app) I would have never considered it a "top DT hit" although I admit, it was one of the first songs to really capture my interest in DT. (Octavarium was their newest release when I discovered them).
It was in Rock Band 2 as one of the hardest songs in the game. As a challenging song in a rhythm game during the peak of those types of games’ popularity, it gained some attention. That’s how I discovered the band actually.
I forgot about that! I never got into that game, but I did know that
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I’m very surprised Panic Attack has not been a part of any major tour the last 10+ years (besides the 2015 festivals obviously). It’s consistently in the top 5 streamed songs on Spotify (currently #2) with more than double the plays of As I Am, solid length, great heavy concert song, and seems relatively easy for the band to play (especially JLB). It sounds great on the Wacken LNG album. And as far as I can recall, they’ve still only played 2/8 songs off of 8VM (globally) with Mangini so far. I’d love to see it make an appearance soon.
I didn't realize it was that popular on spotify. (I don't use the app) I would have never considered it a "top DT hit" although I admit, it was one of the first songs to really capture my interest in DT. (Octavarium was their newest release when I discovered them).
It was in Rock Band 2 as one of the hardest songs in the game. As a challenging song in a rhythm game during the peak of those types of games’ popularity, it gained some attention. That’s how I discovered the band actually.
I forgot about that! I never got into that game, but I did know that
Don't worry, the band themselves forgot about that too :rollin
https://youtu.be/NUkw_mWPhNQ?t=96
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:rollin :rollin :rollin
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I’m very surprised Panic Attack has not been a part of any major tour the last 10+ years (besides the 2015 festivals obviously). It’s consistently in the top 5 streamed songs on Spotify (currently #2) with more than double the plays of As I Am, solid length, great heavy concert song, and seems relatively easy for the band to play (especially JLB). It sounds great on the Wacken LNG album. And as far as I can recall, they’ve still only played 2/8 songs off of 8VM (globally) with Mangini so far. I’d love to see it make an appearance soon.
I would also enjoy seeing Panic Attack. The last time I saw it was when they opened for Maiden. It's a fantastic song live and I want to hear it with Mangini.
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I’m very surprised Panic Attack has not been a part of any major tour the last 10+ years (besides the 2015 festivals obviously). It’s consistently in the top 5 streamed songs on Spotify (currently #2) with more than double the plays of As I Am, solid length, great heavy concert song, and seems relatively easy for the band to play (especially JLB). It sounds great on the Wacken LNG album. And as far as I can recall, they’ve still only played 2/8 songs off of 8VM (globally) with Mangini so far. I’d love to see it make an appearance soon.
I would also enjoy seeing Panic Attack. The last time I saw it was when they opened for Maiden. It's a fantastic song live and I want to hear it with Mangini.
Ditto. More Meta album other than Scenes and As I Am in general would be great.
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Looks like Arion is the opening band for the European tour.
Very awesome band IMO. They aren't prog though so not sure how the fans will take them. They are power/melodic metal. Young band. They were the opener for one of the days at ProgPower USA last year. I enjoyed their set quite a bit, although you could tell they were pretty raw from the live performance side of things. I got to meet and chat with them later that day, very nice guys. I would be ecstatic if they were able to support DT in the US. But like I said, I'm not sure they are going to win a lot of the prog fans over.
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Most of the prog fans I know are pretty open minded. I'm not familiar with these guys, but I would love to be blown away by them!
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Arion will of course not at all be confused with Ayreon.
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Never mind. I had my dates mixed up.
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I wonder if the changes are happening to finally help James out a little and take into consideration his situation? Maybe a few song selections to ease some of the load on him?
If that's the case, I would love it if they swap out one of the songs for Stream of Consciousness. It would give James an almost 12 minute break for his voice
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I wonder if the changes are happening to finally help James out a little and take into consideration his situation? Maybe a few song selections to ease some of the load on him?
If that's the case, I would love it if they swap out one of the songs for Stream of Consciousness. It would give James an almost 12 minute break for his voice
I think adding an instrumental or two even at this point would be a great idea.
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I wonder who they would get to open if they played in Australia. I know two bands that would absolutely destroy me with the excitement of it was them, but I wonder who they’d actually bring out.
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I wonder who they would get to open if they played in Australia. I know two bands that would absolutely destroy me with the excitement of it was them, but I wonder who they’d actually bring out.
Teramaze would be great.
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I wonder who they would get to open if they played in Australia. I know two bands that would absolutely destroy me with the excitement of it was them, but I wonder who they’d actually bring out.
Caligulas Horse immediately comes to mind as a good Australian opener for DT
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Vanishing Point deserve a gig like this. I know they are probably too much in the power metal vein with a splash of prog but still would be great.
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The Stranger. Absolutely love this guys!
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I wonder who they would get to open if they played in Australia. I know two bands that would absolutely destroy me with the excitement of it was them, but I wonder who they’d actually bring out.
Teramaze would be great.
Caligulas Horse immediately comes to mind as a good Australian opener for DT
I’d love it to be Voyager actually. Do something a bit different.
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Anyone here going to opening night tomorrow? Would love to see the reveals.
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Damn. ATC and SG are hinted at, yet I'd enjoy Transcending time the most.
By the way, do we have anyone from Naples to keep us up to date on the set list during the first night?
They will start in Tel Aviv (my hometown). I’ll update post show :)
I am counting on our buddy here. ;D
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Damn the tour starts tomorrow already, time is flying by
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Damn. ATC and SG are hinted at, yet I'd enjoy Transcending time the most.
By the way, do we have anyone from Naples to keep us up to date on the set list during the first night?
They will start in Tel Aviv (my hometown). I’ll update post show :)
I am counting on our buddy here. ;D
Rest assured 🤘🏻🤘🏻
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I wonder who they would get to open if they played in Australia. I know two bands that would absolutely destroy me with the excitement of it was them, but I wonder who they’d actually bring out.
Teramaze would be great.
Caligulas Horse immediately comes to mind as a good Australian opener for DT
I’d love it to be Voyager actually. Do something a bit different.
Another excellent choice.
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Damn. ATC and SG are hinted at, yet I'd enjoy Transcending time the most.
By the way, do we have anyone from Naples to keep us up to date on the set list during the first night?
They will start in Tel Aviv (my hometown). I’ll update post show :)
I am counting on our buddy here. ;D
Rest assured 🤘🏻🤘🏻
:metal :tup
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And we wait…
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And we wait…
indeed we do...
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I’ll be checking this before I check setlist.fm tomorrow for sure. It’ll be more intriguing to me to see it song by sing with the reactions from people in the page of it’s a great setlist.
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I'll be checking this thread first thing when I wake up. Show might be going on by then. If not, I will try and follow along. Glad someone was there to be able to relay the set changes to us.
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I’ll be checking this before I check setlist.fm tomorrow for sure. It’ll be more intriguing to me to see it song by sing with the reactions from people in the page of it’s a great setlist.
I won’t update live song by song as I want to be present in the show. But a minute post the encore I’ll write all the changes:)
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I'll be seeing them in Manchester, UK! This is the first time I'll have seen them twice in one tour, but also the first time I'll be seeing them without my dad, so a touch bitter-sweet for me. Still, I'm sure they will deliver an incredible show! Excited to see what the setlist will be this time around
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I’ll be checking this before I check setlist.fm tomorrow for sure. It’ll be more intriguing to me to see it song by sing with the reactions from people in the page of it’s a great setlist.
I won’t update live song by song as I want to be present in the show. But a minute post the encore I’ll write all the changes:)
:tup :tup
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Was expecting some songs by now.
First ones are on Setlist.fm:
https://www.setlist.fm/search?query=Dream+theater
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happy with the changes so far!
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Was expecting some songs by now.
First ones are on Setlist.fm:
https://www.setlist.fm/search?query=Dream+theater
No way that's real.
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Why not real?
The whole set is up by now.
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Why not real?
The whole set is up by now.
OK, well now it makes sense. It said Six Degrees and then About To Crash, and there was no AVFTTOTW. I didn't realize it was not complete.
JP loves himself some Caught In A Web. No idea why they'd play that AND 6:00.
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No Train Of Thought at all.
I was expecting ITNOG as an encore.
Quite a short set. And some surprising choices.
All in all not too shabby!
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If this is accurate I really hope they bring this set back to the U.S.! I gotta top ten song in there now.
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Got rid of Count and added PMU. :-\
I am very happy with SG and ATC though!
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Setlist just got turned to crap. I would not bother buying tickets for this. Man, they did so much better last year. No encore and they brought back PMU which I’d say is easily their most boring song. This doesn’t even seem close to long enough without Ministry and Count. Nope, if this came to Australia, I would be second guessing without a good support and a cheap ticket.
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Killer killer set!!
Show just done rn
Out - invisible monster, ATM, ITMOLS, about to crash
In - sleeping giant, ATC , caught in a web, Solitary shell through the of 6 degrees, pull me under
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Hang on. Someone just said Count of Tuscany is still the encore. That saves it a little bit. Do we know if it’s Solitary Shell, About to Crash (Reprise) and Losing Time, or did they actually go into About to Crash (original)?
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Killer killer set!!
Show just done rn
Out - invisible monster, ATM, ITMOLS, about to crash
In - sleeping giant, ATC , caught in a web, Solitary shell through the of 6 degrees, pull me under
Okay, so it's the last half of Six Degrees starting from Solitary Shell, including Losing Time/Grand Finale? I was wondering that because of the setlist mentioning Six Degrees, and then now it's Solitary Shell with About to Crash after, and that got me wondering if they meant About to Crash (Reprise) since its be weird to transition from Solitary Shell into About to Crash.
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I honestly never get tired of Pull Me Under. Sorry, not sorry.
I am surprised they got rid of TCOT. Maybe it wasn’t going over as well as they thought it would.
Not surprised they dumped TMOLS. Snooze fest. The transition from ATC into it was great. That big symphonic melody is great. But then it’s a downer. The instrumental section is meh until the unison line which is one of their best. But…1,456 mins that song lasts isn’t worth it for that.
And I’m gonna assume ATC is the reprise now. Considering it comes after Solitary Shell. SS being one of my favorites that I’ve never seen live.
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TCOT was the encore.
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Was it the whole ending of Six Degrees or just SS and ATC?
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Sleeping Giant and ATC were the two tracks I wanted to see from View so I'm pretty happy with that. Solitary Shell will be a treat too.
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:loser:
Was it the whole ending of Six Degrees or just SS and ATC?
This is what I’d like to know. If it’s the actual ending, then I rescind my disappointment for the most part.
Kinda interesting that kept Bridges in the Sky since it was so controversial last year.
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Was it the whole ending of Six Degrees or just SS and ATC?
SS, about to crash (reprise), losing time.
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Was it the whole ending of Six Degrees or just SS and ATC?
SS, about to crash (reprise), losing time.
:hefdaddy
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Was it the whole ending of Six Degrees or just SS and ATC?
SS, about to crash (reprise), losing time.
edit - I could barely hear backing vocals. It seems that petrucci has stopped w/ mimicking. I might be wrong tho.
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Was it the whole ending of Six Degrees or just SS and ATC?
SS, about to crash (reprise), losing time.
This alone is worth the ticket price. Thank you very much for the update!
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Yeah, alright. You saved it. I’m keen to go if that’s the case.
I was so sure they’d add Transcending Time. Now that’s the only song they won’t play from this album. Bit of a bummer, as it’s a really great song
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OK, for me personally, this set just starts punching from the beginning and never stops. If they release a live album or video from this tour, I hope it’s this set and not the US one.
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Ok. Ya, I feel much better knowing The Count stayed. Aside from PMU (which is amazing, of course, but, well, it's been around), the adds are great!
Now...when will they announce the US leg?
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Yeah that’s an improvement over the set list we got last year, and different enough that I hope they bring it back to the US - worth seeing again. (even better with a new encore, work AWE in for those that didn’t get it on DoT tour)
And no problem here with PMU, works the crowd really well. Needed something like that if dropping Endless Sacrifice.
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Was it the whole ending of Six Degrees or just SS and ATC?
SS, about to crash (reprise), losing time.
:metal :metal
Now just awaiting for when they announce the US leg. :corn
I have no problem at all with the setlist. My issue with Pull Me Under is using it as the encore song. Having it in the middle of the set doesn't bother me.
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Hey, did Jordan have the keytar out at any point in this show? I know he had it for Endless Sacrifice in 2022, but I’m having trouble trying to pick where it would fit into this set.
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Kinda interesting that kept Bridges in the Sky since it was so controversial last year.
I figured either Bridges or Endless Sacrifice would stay. Keeping Bridges makes sense to me. It's a Mangini Era song and the band likely loves playing the song. I enjoy the song, and I thought it was awesome with this production.
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Endless sacrifice is out as well, I’ve forgot to mention.
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And no problem here with PMU, works the crowd really well. Needed something like that if dropping Endless Sacrifice.
I agree. ES was definitely a crowd pleaser. PMU does that easily. It’s their Jump or Tom Sawyer. Works every time.
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Setlist is even better now. I'd rather had In The Name Of God as I've seen The Count Of Tuscany many times live by now. And Goodnight Kiss is a personal favorite so that would've been a nice addition as well. But I've decided I'm going for this leg as well because of the song selection. Props for the changes.
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Ok, interesting changes although The Ministry of Lost Souls was easily the highlight last tour. Too bad they vanished 'm. Pull Me Under is the least of whole Images and Words so I could interchange that with any of the album and I also hoped for another one than Caught In a Web. Awake has so much more to offer.
Then again, they still play Bridges In the Sky and A View, ending with The Count. So glad that remains the same and with Six Degrees, Answering the Call and Sleeping Giant, there are some pearls in their way.
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INTOG could’ve been incredible. But it’s too much for James at this point.
I’d drop 6:00 for basically for any other song in the catalog. Besides that this is my 6th show and it’s definitely a contender for the best one.
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Agreed. On both ITNOG and 6:00.
Also interesting: songs from 'just' six studio albums. Of which only two Mangini-era albums. Considering that: DoT has a few songs that could have easily replaced 6:00.
And none from TOT - which celebrates it's 20th anniversary this year. They might save something for that for the next leg/US tour.
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And none from TOT - which celebrates it's 20th anniversary this year. They might save something for that for the next leg/US tour.
Right. Maybe this is some sort of hybrid. I'd be surprised if TCOT was played on the 2nd US leg. I still cannot get over CiaW AND 6:00 being in the set.
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Man that is one bummer of a set list. I could go without seeing any songs from SDOIT (the complete song, I'd welcome something from the first disc).
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What a fucking awful setlist. Atrocious.
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JP loves himself some Caught In A Web. No idea why they'd play that AND 6:00.
:tdwn :tdwn :tdwn
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No Train Of Thought at all.
I was expecting ITNOG as an encore.
Agreed,,,,very weak! :tdwn
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JP loves himself some Caught In A Web. No idea why they'd play that AND 6:00.
:tdwn :tdwn :tdwn
Not sure why the thumbs down, he's right. Both somewhat middle of the road songs from Awake. Neither should be in there. 6:00 has already been played and Web is even a lower tier song on the album.
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very happy with SG and ATC though!
:tup
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No Train Of Thought at all.
I was expecting ITNOG as an encore.
Agreed,,,,very weak! :tdwn
Wait.....unless you agree and I misinterpreted your thumbs down? lol.
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JP loves himself some Caught In A Web. No idea why they'd play that AND 6:00.
:tdwn :tdwn :tdwn
Are you agreeing with me or giving me the thumbs down for my opinion? I can't tell! :lol :lol
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Was it the whole ending of Six Degrees or just SS and ATC?
SS, about to crash (reprise), losing time.
This alone is worth the ticket price. Thank you very much for the update!
:tup
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JP loves himself some Caught In A Web. No idea why they'd play that AND 6:00.
:tdwn :tdwn :tdwn
Are you agreeing with me or giving me the thumbs down for my opinion? I can't tell! :lol :lol
:rollin Agreeing with you. Should have just replaced 6:00 with CIAW
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I have always wanted to see CIAW live, so I hope it remains in the setlist when they come back to the USA.
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I LOVE the set list.
I could do without ever seeing PMU again, but it always slays live. BITS seems like something that ought to have been swapped out, but no biggie. I still love the song. The SDOIT pieces are AWESOME.
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I'm going to make an ambitious prediction - some shows will swap BITS for Endless Sacrifice, and Answering the Call for Transcending Time.
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If you're right, I really hope they to TT at whatever LA area show they play.
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Dream Theater do a great job with concert set-lists. Since I discovered them 7 years ago, I have seen 64 different songs live by DT. And I missed the Images, Words and Beyond tour. Granted The Asonishing is 34 songs, but still. How fantastic is that!! There will always be songs I wish they would play and others maybe not as much, but really nothing at a DT concert disappoints.
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I'm curious - for those who consider Six Degrees to be one single song, do you think DT added three songs to their set tonight with Solitary Shell, About to Crash Reprise, and Losing Time the Grand Finale? If not, how would you define these additions to the set?
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They added three songs to the set to me.
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I'm going to make an ambitious prediction - some shows will swap BITS for Endless Sacrifice, and Answering the Call for Transcending Time.
Eh. I hope not. I prefer BiTS and Answering The Call.
But that's just me. 🙂
JP loves himself some Caught In A Web.
...and Six Degrees disc 2. Seems like Disc 1 has been blacklisted since "The Great Debate" didn't go over in the US on the Dramatic tour.
As far as having both 6:00 and CiAW in the set, I have no complaints at all there. The more Awake, the better.
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Video!
Part of AVFTTOTW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeQSfKN4Mfw
Ending of TCOT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZYqH2CX0xI
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The new setlist is both good and not good at the same time :huh: :lol
The good: the SDOIT sections, ATC and SG.
The not so good: CIAW, Bridges, PMU again?
I think they nailed it with most of the new additions, but it's some of the stuff that stayed that doesn't quite work for me.
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I'm really excited to see this setlist live!
The sections from SDOIT have me very excited, especially Solitary Shell. I love that piece a LOT.
A little disappointed they kept 6:00 and ditched Ministry. In my now 5 times seeing DT I think 6:00 has been on the setlist for 3 of them... Ministry was the highlight for me on the first leg of the tour.
Maybe controversial but I'm very excited for CiaW, and I am yet to actually catch PMU live, so I'm pretty happy with that being added.
Was hoping the encore would have changed, I was really hoping for ACOS or Octavarium, as much as that was a longshot
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Also, why is CIAW controversial? Is it because it has been played a lot? In many ways, I always considered it a quintessential Dream Theater song.
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Also, why is CIAW controversial? Is it because it has been played a lot? In many ways, I always considered it a quintessential Dream Theater song.
Personally, I consider it a below average DT song, not that I don't like it. I'm fine I guess with them playing it, but I don't understand why it's being played AND 6:00 is being played. Plus they have played it on a couple of tours already with Mangini. Both songs, actually.
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Here's the now controversial BITS from last night's show: https://youtu.be/E-UuM2hZ2L0
They removed all pre-recorded backing vocals and actually turned up JP's mic volume for the first time in many years. It definitely sounds better, more organic and "live", but it also exposes James' struggles a lot more.
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Here's the now controversial BITS from last night's show: https://youtu.be/E-UuM2hZ2L0
They removed all pre-recorded backing vocals and actually turned up JP's mic volume for the first time in many years. It definitely sounds better, more organic and "live", but it also exposes James' struggles a lot more.
James sounds like he's really struggling here... one of the comments mentions microphone issues. I hope that is the case, combined with first night of the tour. It is very nice to hear JP's actual backing vocals again. His voice sounds good here!
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Facebook and youtube comments mostly mention about James' mic issue. I hope it's really mic issue because watching BITS is painful.
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Facebook and youtube comments mostly mention about James' mic issue. I hope it's really mic issue because watching BITS is painful.
There's definitely mic issues because it keeps cutting out but it sounds like either he can't hear himself or maybe he's sick. When he jumped down an octave...ouch. 😖
I feel for him. That's a tough gig.
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Here's the now controversial BITS from last night's show: https://youtu.be/E-UuM2hZ2L0
They removed all pre-recorded backing vocals and actually turned up JP's mic volume for the first time in many years. It definitely sounds better, more organic and "live", but it also exposes James' struggles a lot more.
:omg:
:tdwn :facepalm:
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I have a feeling the people that acted like using those vocal tracks was so awful are going to miss them.
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They really didn't need to remove them. They just had to turn them down a bit in the mix.
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Well, it certainly sounds live now. And that's good.
But James. Crikey.
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I have a feeling the people that acted like using those vocal tracks was so awful are going to miss them.
"the fabric of reality is tearing apart" :biggrin:
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I really just don’t understand why they keep trotting songs out that they know James is going to have a tough time singing. Grand finale? caught in a web? Pull Me Under? and he was already struggling a bit with 6:00 and Bridges but they kept those as well. They have so many songs they could play that would be much easier on him (or maybe throw in an instrumental or two to give him a break).
Actually the latest Lost Not Forgotten release from 2010 is a great example of a set list that James could probably sing pretty well. 4 pretty easy songs, 1 more difficult(home) and one difficult (pull me under). A good balance.
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Facebook and youtube comments mostly mention about James' mic issue. I hope it's really mic issue because watching BITS is painful.
There's definitely mic issues because it keeps cutting out but it sounds like either he can't hear himself or maybe he's sick. When he jumped down an octave...ouch. 😖
I feel for him. That's a tough gig.
That jump down an Octave is what he has been singing this entire tour. Without the backing tracks, it's more noticable now what part of that harmony he was actually singing. And with those backing tracks so high in the mix, those lower vocals were drowned out.
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I really just don’t understand why they keep trotting songs out that they know James is going to have a tough time singing. Grand finale? caught in a web? Pull Me Under? and he was already struggling a bit with 6:00 and Bridges but they kept those as well. They have so many songs they could play that would be much easier on him (or maybe throw in an instrumental or two to give him a break).
Actually the latest Lost Not Forgotten release from 2010 is a great example of a set list that James could probably sing pretty well. 4 pretty easy songs, 1 more difficult(home) and one difficult (pull me under). A good balance.
I think we have to consider the very real possibility that the songs they are picking ARE the ones James is least likely to struggle with these days, which is worrisome for their live performances future going forward. I wouldn't think the verses to Bridges in the Sky would be that difficult, but even those in the clip from last night sounded...not good. I couldn't make it through the whole song, to be honest.
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I think we have to consider the very real possibility that the songs they are picking ARE the ones James is least likely to struggle with these days, which is worrisome for their live performances future going forward. I wouldn't think the verses to Bridges in the Sky would be that difficult, but even those in the clip from last night sounded...not good. I couldn't make it through the whole song, to be honest.
So here’s a couple examples. 6:00 and Caught in a web are very difficult songs to sing. They could maybe do Panic Attack and Hollow Years which are much easier. Bridges is a difficult song to sing. Outcry/Lost Not forgotten/Breaking all Illusions are songs that are easier to sing. Grand Finale is very difficult to sing - maybe do Along for the Ride or The Looking Glass instead. It might not be the best setlist for everyone, but they are songs that are easier to sing and the live show would be much better for it.
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Well, personally, I am not there just for LaBrie. I am at their shows because I love the music of Dream Theater. I am glad they're not picky with their sets and will include whatever they feel like. That's what I love about their sets now.
With that said, when I am there, I am not just listening and analyzing the band, I am there to enjoy the songs and that includes singing along to the lyrics, because those lyrics at times, speak to me.
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mic issues are still there with answering the call, though james sounds to handle it better in that song
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mic issues are still there with answering the call, though james sounds to handle it better in that song
From that video of ATC, it sounds like his mic going in and out. But also like his monitors weren’t working well. It really sounded like he couldn’t hear himself or parts of the music. There’s a point where he and John are not lining up their vocals at all and James is just staring at him. Almost like trying to follow. It’s not as much struggling to sing, he’s struggling to find his place. Which seems more of a technical issue.
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mic issues are still there with answering the call, though james sounds to handle it better in that song
I think for me this is partially down to the fact that over the past couple of albums his voice seems to have shifted somewhat, tonally. With songs like Bridges, not only is he struggling to sing, but his voice has different textures to it that just makes it sound more off in comparison to the studio track. With songs from DoT / View, that won't be quite so persistent.
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love the new setlist and the only thing that could have made it materially better would have been to swap Bridges for Glass Prison. I hope I get a chance to see them again should they do another US leg.
The band is choosing songs that they feel JLB can sing. JP is not obsessing over these small details of the band and production and then neglecting to think about whether his vocalist can actually sing the song or not. He obviously thinks this is achievable. The vocal performances are shaky and have been for a long time. This is not anything new. The thing I don't get is why so many people are all of a sudden waking up to this reality. We have to live with it because if it were something he could fix, he would have done so already. For decades I have been in a place where I am honestly not even paying that much attention to the vocal. It is what it is and I enjoy the shows.
They probably have 4-5 albums left in them and are riding this lineup out until the end, health permitting. Ride it out baby!
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ATC performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMGFWVTubts&ab_channel=Motodor777
So it is really mic issue. BITS sounds so bad because of it. It sounds like James struggles but obliviously James can't hear himself and follow the melodies. ATC is a proof.
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ATC performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMGFWVTubts&ab_channel=Motodor777
So it is really mic issue. BITS sounds so bad because of it. It sounds like James struggles but obliviously James can't hear himself and follow the melodies. ATC is a proof.
A mic issue is proof of a mic issue. Nothing else.
EDIT: I am not convinced there is 100% a mic issue after watching the entire thing and another song from the same show.
Double EDIT: the band sounds so f***ing rock hard here
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ATC performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMGFWVTubts&ab_channel=Motodor777
So it is really mic issue. BITS sounds so bad because of it. It sounds like James struggles but obliviously James can't hear himself and follow the melodies. ATC is a proof.
A mic issue is proof of a mic issue. Nothing else.
EDIT: I am not convinced there is 100% a mic issue after watching the entire thing and another song from the same show.
Double EDIT: the band sounds so f***ing rock hard here
I read through a post on FB that his mic was constantly disconnecting throughout the performance, and there were potentially some issues with his IEMs as well... doesn't completely excuse his performance but it certainly should mean he won't struggle this much on the remainder of the dates
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I can understand the struggling of CIAW, 6:00 or Grand Finale but if you struggle to sing songs like ATC it's something serious and James should consider to carry on or not. Hopefully James is not there yet. I'm convinced by watching ATC performance it's a technical issue. It just started going down in the first line of ATC and contiuned through the song to the end.
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Just wanted to mention that I'm very happy with the new setlist. Sleeping Giant finally getting played is awesome, Answering the Call replacing Invisible Monster is fine with me (I like both), getting to hear a longer sequence from Six Degrees is great and Endless Sacrifice and Ministry getting dropped is a serious improvement in my book. The only thing that I don't get us Caught in a Web getting added on top of 6:00 - they have so much stuff to choose from, a lot of which hasn't been played in a LONG time (and never with Mangini), so adding yet another Awake track is just plain weird. But overall, a very cool set with an excellent selection from the new album (which I love) and some great older stuff that I'll be happy to see live!
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:lol @ people thinking it's a mic issue in regards to his voice. Surely we are not going to go through all of this again. His voice was shot last year and we had countless discussions around it. I haven't watched any clips yet but it seems like nothing has changed. It's sad for James because it seems he really has fallen off a cliff with his vocals the last couple of years. Must be tough. But to blame issues on the microphone is laughable.
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Wow, MAJOR set list improvements to what was already a pretty solid set. Really excited for the next U.S. leg now!
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:lol @ people thinking it's a mic issue in regards to his voice. Surely we are not going to go through all of this again. His voice was shot last year and we had countless discussions around it. I haven't watched any clips yet but it seems like nothing has changed. It's sad for James because it seems he really has fallen off a cliff with his vocals the last couple of years. Must be tough. But to blame issues on the microphone is laughable.
Yet, you haven’t watched any clips yet. Ok.
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Wow, MAJOR set list improvements to what was already a pretty solid set. Really excited for the next U.S. leg now!
This. :tup
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:lol @ people thinking it's a mic issue in regards to his voice. Surely we are not going to go through all of this again. His voice was shot last year and we had countless discussions around it. I haven't watched any clips yet but it seems like nothing has changed. It's sad for James because it seems he really has fallen off a cliff with his vocals the last couple of years. Must be tough. But to blame issues on the microphone is laughable.
Yet, you haven’t watched any clips yet. Ok.
I'm just going by the discussions about it that I was heavily involved with last year. However, I'll say nothing more until I check out some more footage, so fair call to you.
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Hope they don't change the set for the US. Even better than the last one.
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Hope they don't change the set for the US. Even better than the last one.
I’m liking the new set, but if they return to US I hope one (or both) of the last two get swapped out… that’s 40m they could work with. But if they keep AVFTTOTW that’s cool. At least give us a new encore.
Re: JLB… I go to shows for a good time, and the band delivers. Backing tracks and “mic issues” tbh I don’t care anymore. But whatever he was doing on last leg during BitS that was distracting. Was like he was hiding from Mangini or something. Fake it, but just don’t try to hide it.
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The mic issues clearly didn’t pertain just to the mic lol. They’ve got the Distance Over Time skull mic out instead of the Top of the World viewfinder.
Have to agree with the last comment from NoFred though. I go for a good time and as long as on the night they deliver, which they more than often do, it’s fine by me. He always sounds shot on the YouTube videos anyway and we just dismiss it in the live room. I will disagree with saying swap out the encore though, coz I definitely want to see Tuscany!
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Here's the now controversial BITS from last night's show: https://youtu.be/E-UuM2hZ2L0
They removed all pre-recorded backing vocals and actually turned up JP's mic volume for the first time in many years. It definitely sounds better, more organic and "live", but it also exposes James' struggles a lot more.
Hmmm.....sad to see, not sure what the answer is here for James. There's some parts that are actually fine but then other sections are just awful. I like hearing JP here though.
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and James should consider to carry on or not.
What would you suggest?
Wow, MAJOR set list improvements to what was already a pretty solid set.
Answering the Call and Sleeping Giant are improvements but it's a tremendous shame they play the two least tracks, of their very best album. If they swapped those for any other from Awake, I would be over the moon.
And Pull Me Under is interchangable by any of their entire catalog these day's, as long as it aint You Not Me or New Millennium.
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Good to see Answering The Call and Sleeping Giant in the set.
Unfortunately from the videos I've seen James sounds very bad, I hope he improves in later dates. He seems to be struggling a lot, even on the latest tracks.
At least they seem to have cut back on the pre recorded vocals and JPs voice is audible again.
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Like most here, I am liking the setlist too. I just hope JLB's voice stays sharp when I see them in London in about a month.
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I attended the show in Tel Aviv and was about 2nd in line right in front of the mid stage, next to LaBrie. I could hear him fine from there (as much as you can, the whole balancing in the stadium was pretty bad). At some point there was a production guy who pushed between us to get to the front of the crowd and yell at LaBrie that he should sing with his mouth dead on the mic. There seemed to have been some technical issue there and for some reason they couldn't pass that message to LaBrie backstage while he was off there during instrumental sections.
Listening back on my and other people's recorded footage it does look like a mix between a mic issue and a rough night for him personally, but yeah there was definitely something technical going on there besides just him having a rough night.
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I'll never criticize the band for playing Pull me under every now and then. There are always people who attend a DT show for the first time and would enjoy their greatest hit. I would also argue that certain casual fans will be drawn just to see Pull me under. After all, more dedicated fans might skip the second leg if they've seen the band on the first one, so casual fans coming to see Pull me under would fill that gap.
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I'll never criticize the band for playing Pull me under every now and then. There are always people who attend a DT show for the first time and would enjoy their greatest hit. I would also argue that certain casual fans will be drawn just to see Pull me under. After all, more dedicated fans might skip the second leg if they've seen the band on the first one, so casual fans coming to see Pull me under would fill that gap.
Especially at places they hardly play.
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Glad to see the setlist get the overhaul even though the previous setlist was good. Needless to say, I would have picked different songs to change and add, but I'm glad they didn't just change a couple of them.
I'll never criticize the band for playing Pull me under every now and then. There are always people who attend a DT show for the first time and would enjoy their greatest hit. I would also argue that certain casual fans will be drawn just to see Pull me under. After all, more dedicated fans might skip the second leg if they've seen the band on the first one, so casual fans coming to see Pull me under would fill that gap.
Good point! And as much as I'm tired of seeing PMU, TSCO, Metropolis and AIA, I don't mind if those songs make *periodic* returns to the setlist. Just so long as DT doesn't pull an "Iron Maiden" and play them at every show on every tour. But rotating them in and out of the setlist from tour to tour (since show to show ain't gonna happen) is perfectly fine, IMO, even if I'd prefer something more obscure.
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but it's a tremendous shame they play the two least tracks, of their very best album.
??? I didn't even know Blind Faith and Disappear were on the table, but it'd be pretty awesome to get those.
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but it's a tremendous shame they play the two least tracks, of their very best album.
??? I didn't even know Blind Faith and Disappear were on the table, but it'd be pretty awesome to get those.
:metal
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1. The Alien
2. Caught in a Web
3. Answering the Call
4. Outcry
5. Sleeping Giant
6. Transcending Time
7. About to Crash (Reprise)
8. Surrender to Reason
9. Stream of Consciousness
10. A View from the Top of the World
11. The Count of Tuscany
Dream Theater dream setlist 2023
The aim was for it to closely resemble the real setlist, with a few tweaks for variety.
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I don't know if it was already mentioned, but I wonder if DT will keep PMU for the European tour. They rarely play in Israel, right? (maybe it was their first time there?) So, maybe that's the reason they played PMU in Israel or in Rock in Rio, in this case, being a broader public in a big festival.
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I don't know if it was already mentioned, but I wonder if DT will keep PMU for the European tour. They rarely play in Israel, right? (maybe it was their first time there?) So, maybe that's the reason they played PMU in Israel or in Rock in Rio, in this case, being a broader public in a big festival.
Hard to say, but given that this was their gig and not a festival gig with a bunch of other bands (and so therefore, there would be people in the audience who were not DT fans), I'd guess PMU will be a part of the European setlist. They played 4 other shows in Israel, and half of them had PMU and half did not. So make of that what you will...
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5th show in Israel? So, this must be the setlist for the rest of the tour.
About PMU... obviously it really pleases the crowd in a festival context - including us hardcore fans, as I surprisingly felt in the last Rock in Rio (and I'm in the "I would rather listen to a lot of other songs live off DT catalog" camp). But what really impressed me was how the overall crowd was moved by the last half of TCOT (from the atmospheric part until the end), really amazing!! Great closer for ANY kind of DT show!!
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The three SDOIT tracks from the show in Tel Aviv: https://youtu.be/hbMPLKvFCh4
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AtC in the set is a big win for me. But honestly, I think I like the last leg's set better.... Endless Sacrifice > BitS, About to Crash > the reprise, Awaken the Master > Sleeping Giant. Add in I'm generally not the biggest fan of the ending of Six Degrees. I'd say Solitary Shell is an awesome addition though. I also mostly enjoy TMoLS. I'm glad they removed it to make room for more songs, but given the options, I think I might like TMOLS more than the final three tracks of Six Degrees. If this show made it's way to the US, I'd probably go though because there's enough changes to warrant seeing them again.
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Not adding Transceding Time is a huge let down.
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it's a tremendous shame they play the two least tracks, of their very best album. If they swapped those for any other from Awake, I would be over the moon.
But they're not playing The Mirror and Lie. That would make this a much worse set list.
5th show in Israel? So, this must be the setlist for the rest of the tour.
5th DT show ever in Israel. We won't really be able to draw firm conclusions until they go through the first few shows in Europe.
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Don't think they'll end up doing this, but what are the odds of them rotating Sleeping Giant/Awaken The Master and Answering The Call/Invisible Monster from night to night?
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But they're not playing The Mirror and Lie. That would make this a much worse set list.
I cannot believe you actually mean this.
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But they're not playing The Mirror and Lie. That would make this a much worse set list.
I cannot believe you actually mean this.
agree! I love those 2 :metal
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The three SDOIT tracks from the show in Tel Aviv: https://youtu.be/hbMPLKvFCh4
James wasn't as bad on this as I was expecting. He smartly chose some alternative notes rather than going for the big high notes in Losing Time/Grand Finale. Not great, but not too bad. And Mangini is just crushing it - love watching him play!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V38Bs6KvLU0
in 6:00 he sounds fine, being consciouss of what he can and cannot do that evening it seems.
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But they're not playing The Mirror and Lie. That would make this a much worse set list.
I cannot believe you actually mean this.
You don't know pg1067 very well, do you? :lol
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But they're not playing The Mirror and Lie. That would make this a much worse set list.
I cannot believe you actually mean this.
I've never liked the Mirror - going back to when it was just Puppies on Acid. Lie is better, but it's not great by any means.
There was a thread awhile back where folks ranked the songs on Awake. After probably about 100 people posted rankings, I compiled the rankings. If I recall correctly, everyone song was at least one person's top ranked song and someone's bottom ranked song.
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Cool changes to the set list. Looking forward to North American dates!
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For the record, The Mirror and Lie are my #2 and #3 from Awake, right behind Scarred. For that album, there are those three that I love, a few that I dislike, and a bunch of decent songs in the middle.
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I'm a big fan of The Mirror / Lie. I would rate them higher than 6:00 and CiaW. But I don't believe I've seen CiaW live yet where as I have seen The Mirror / Lie / 6:00 multiple times. And with not having seen the last two tracks of SDOiT live, I actually probably should be more excited for this set to come to the US than maybe I realize. For seeing the band around 20 times now, having 4 songs in the set I've never seen should be a must see (and I think it would be if they come to NJ or NYC).
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I'm a big fan of The Mirror / Lie. I would rate them higher than 6:00 and CiaW. But I don't believe I've seen CiaW live yet where as I have seen The Mirror / Lie / 6:00 multiple times.
Same here (and I should have said that 6:00 is my #4--just forgot about that one). CIAW is like Burning My Soul, where it isn't a song I like on the album, but I think it would slay live.
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All of these new animations for the songs are so good. Old set and the new setlist.
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For the record, The Mirror and Lie are my #2 and #3 from Awake, right behind Scarred. For that album, there are those three that I love, a few that I dislike, and a bunch of decent songs in the middle.
Voices is #1 from Awake and it's not even close IMO. One of their top songs ever. But I'll give you Scarred as my# 2 from Awake
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I'm a big fan of The Mirror / Lie. I would rate them higher than 6:00 and CiaW.
Absolutely, no contest between the two pairings.
The Mirror crushes. Love the whole thing and the SDV melody that we hear for the first time is just epic. :metal
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All of these new animations for the songs are so good. Old set and the new setlist.
They really are. I loved the ones they used for the Six Degrees sections. The Count of Tuscany videos with the scenery of the landscapes was neat as well.
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I'm a big fan of The Mirror / Lie. I would rate them higher than 6:00 and CiaW.
Absolutely, no contest between the two pairings.
The Mirror crushes. Love the whole thing and the SDV melody that we hear for the first time is just epic. :metal
:metal :tup
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So many good songs on Awake... Lifting Shadows has always been my favorite, though Space Dye Vest and Scarred are sooo close. Interestingly, while I also love The Mirror, I am not a huge fan of Lie.
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The three SDOIT tracks from the show in Tel Aviv: https://youtu.be/hbMPLKvFCh4
James wasn't as bad on this as I was expecting. He smartly chose some alternative notes rather than going for the big high notes in Losing Time/Grand Finale. Not great, but not too bad. And Mangini is just crushing it - love watching him play!
Yeah, I am so with you here.
For the first night of a tour, JLB sounds great to my ears. A little pitchy here and there, but he's mostly there.
As for the altering the melodies, I am so, so happy that he started doing this...it's so much more enjoyable to hear him confidently sing a lower melody (a la Robert Plant on virtually anything Zeppelin) than struggle with the original.
I realize that some fans feel differently, but for THIS fan, I'll happily go see DT with a 70-year-old James doing his thing, altering the songs to suit his aged vocal register. Especially bc his warmth is still there on the lower parts.
As for the rest of the band...yeah, they are absolutely killing it.
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Ray Alder has started doing this on a lot of Fates Warning stuff. Some of it is an improvement.
I think JLB should look into doing more of this. I mean, ya it’s nice to hear that note at the end of LTL, but I honestly believe the song and melodies themselves are strong enough to carry the song without “the note”.
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The three SDOIT tracks from the show in Tel Aviv: https://youtu.be/hbMPLKvFCh4
James wasn't as bad on this as I was expecting. He smartly chose some alternative notes rather than going for the big high notes in Losing Time/Grand Finale. Not great, but not too bad. And Mangini is just crushing it - love watching him play!
Yeah, I am so with you here.
For the first night of a tour, JLB sounds great to my ears. A little pitchy here and there, but he's mostly there.
As for the altering the melodies, I am so, so happy that he started doing this...it's so much more enjoyable to hear him confidently sing a lower melody (a la Robert Plant on virtually anything Zeppelin) than struggle with the original.
I realize that some fans feel differently, but for THIS fan, I'll happily go see DT with a 70-year-old James doing his thing, altering the songs to suit his aged vocal register. Especially bc his warmth is still there on the lower parts.
As for the rest of the band...yeah, they are absolutely killing it.
Agree 100% to all of this. Just do whatever and create a good experience for all. Backing tracks included, just don’t try to obviously hide it (re: the BitS maneuver)
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The vocal performances are shaky and have been for a long time. This is not anything new. The thing I don't get is why so many people are all of a sudden waking up to this reality. We have to live with it because if it were something he could fix, he would have done so already.
I'm thinking these days that this is true. My hunch is that there's been a more permanent injury (maybe during the Astonishing tour?) that we don't know about. I know he does everything to take care of his voice and this is why I think it's permanently damaged. When we hear those moments where he sounds like himself it's like the voice we know, and it's like the heavens have opened up. But when he's off it's unpleasant and even painful to listen to. It's very sad, but I give him credit for soldiering on.
For decades I have been in a place where I am honestly not even paying that much attention to the vocal. It is what it is and I enjoy the shows.
Yep. Last year I just enjoyed hearing the music in person and it was more about the total package, the brilliance and the entity of the music itself.
They probably have 4-5 albums left in them and are riding this lineup out until the end, health permitting. Ride it out baby!
I think it's the right choice. His is the voice we know from a 30+ years long catalog of music.
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For decades I have been in a place where I am honestly not even paying that much attention to the vocal. It is what it is and I enjoy the shows.
Yep. Last year I just enjoyed hearing the music in person and it was more about the total package, the brilliance and the entity of the music itself.
I honestly believe this is all we can do as fans now. Just enjoy the moment. Watch it on the blu-ray releases and listen tot eh official releases where they fix him up a little if we choose to look back on the tour, or just take in the studio recordings again. We need to stop trying to listen for the faults, or letting it be as visceral of a reaction when he can’t hit those notes anymore. He’s old, he’s vocally injured, we gotta just take it with the grain of salt that we’re seeing those songs played live in the moment and enjoy the entity of it all, not nitpicking the one aspect that can’t be perfect.
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For decades I have been in a place where I am honestly not even paying that much attention to the vocal. It is what it is and I enjoy the shows.
Yep. Last year I just enjoyed hearing the music in person and it was more about the total package, the brilliance and the entity of the music itself.
I honestly believe this is all we can do as fans now. Just enjoy the moment. Watch it on the blu-ray releases and listen tot eh official releases where they fix him up a little if we choose to look back on the tour, or just take in the studio recordings again. We need to stop trying to listen for the faults, or letting it be as visceral of a reaction when he can’t hit those notes anymore. He’s old, he’s vocally injured, we gotta just take it with the grain of salt that we’re seeing those songs played live in the moment and enjoy the entity of it all, not nitpicking the one aspect that can’t be perfect.
Honestly when I'm at shows I almost never spot issues with the singing (not just DT). I'm usually taken in by the moment and just enjoying it. I think the most jarring thing is when JLB messed up the lyrics, I was like "wait a minute here".
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Concert environment is completely another thing. When you are just there you can't catch mistakes for the most part. As for the vocals and particularly James in that matter many may think he just rules the stage in that moment. But when you go home and watch videos from youtube... well, it is another story for the singers. It can be shocking.
I hope from now on James still delivers. The thing is age doesn't treat him well. Constant touring and concert length don't do anything good too. I hope he figures out what is good for him and be there till the end.
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The thing is age doesn't treat him well.
That's where I draw the line, though. It's not about age. There are older singers than him who are out there killing it. Real vocal decline doesn't set in until after 70 (there's science to back this up, it's actually true of all physical intrinsic aging, including the voice). But those older singers don't have his particular past challenges to overcome.
What it is for him is, he's injured. Perhaps even re-injured. Singing is an athletic event (quote, my opera teacher). Any athlete with, for example, a knee injury wouldn't be expected to ever be quite the same, at any age, especially if that knee had been injured possibly more than once....
I hope he figures out what is good for him and be there till the end.
I hope so, too. Maybe it means pulling out crazy high note songs and bringing out songs with less demanding tessitura (ie. keep the Count and ditch BITS, as much as I love that song). Maybe it means that going forward, new songs are written in a less demanding range (Answering the Call rocks, and it doesn't contain any high F#). I don't agree with the low singing in BITS, he's a tenor for heavens sake. Singing in the basement won't do him any good longterm, either. I think staying in middle voice and working on legato lines, excellent vowel placement and breath support are his best friends now.
Whatever happens, I'd prefer for him to do what is doable gracefully than any of the alternatives.
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I've never liked the Mirror - going back to when it was just Puppies on Acid. Lie is better, but it's not great by any means.
There was a thread awhile back where folks ranked the songs on Awake. After probably about 100 people posted rankings, I compiled the rankings. If I recall correctly, everyone song was at least one person's top ranked song and someone's bottom ranked song.
But didn't you liked it much more when Portnoy's Twelve Step Suite turns out to be retrospective? And this was like a 'prologue'? (No idea if that's even a word in English). I can understand that opinions change more than often and that's one of the great things about this wonderful band, there's so much in this music. But not liking The Mirror, that's truly remarkable.
I wish I was a fan back then. Seeing the Twelve Step Suite evolve and waiting for the next part, in next album, must have been an awesome time.
And about Awake, it's my #1 album of all times, with Voices, Scarred, Lie, The Mirror, Space-Dye Vest and Lifting Shadows off a Dream all basicly at #1. Interchangable beauties. 6:00 and Caught in a Web are the bottom songs, for me.
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For decades I have been in a place where I am honestly not even paying that much attention to the vocal. It is what it is and I enjoy the shows.
Yep. Last year I just enjoyed hearing the music in person and it was more about the total package, the brilliance and the entity of the music itself.
I honestly believe this is all we can do as fans now. Just enjoy the moment. Watch it on the blu-ray releases and listen tot eh official releases where they fix him up a little if we choose to look back on the tour, or just take in the studio recordings again. We need to stop trying to listen for the faults, or letting it be as visceral of a reaction when he can’t hit those notes anymore. He’s old, he’s vocally injured, we gotta just take it with the grain of salt that we’re seeing those songs played live in the moment and enjoy the entity of it all, not nitpicking the one aspect that can’t be perfect.
I am still holding the rest of the band to an incredibly high standard that they easily surpass every single time. DT is driven by these amazing musicians, who are pretty much a supergroup. Where many of the all time greats seem to lack focus later in their careers or fall off with age, DT seems to defy these norms. Actually, some of them are even better today, if you can imagine, than they were in their 20s. Usually the opposite happens, especially in contemporary music.
If JP were to ever - God forbid - get to a place where he could not make it through songs without missing a ton of notes or his intonation falling apart, I think I would be incredibly disappointed and stop coming to shows. In a sense I think I have just gotten used to understanding JLB's presence and role in the band as distinct from the other members. I wouldn't call it low expectations, per se, but I have accepted that if I want to see JP, JR, JM, and MM melt my face every 2 years, I need to disengage from the vocal performance or at least engage it differently.
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I am still holding the rest of the band to an incredibly high standard that they easily surpass every single time. DT is driven by these amazing musicians, who are pretty much a supergroup. Where many of the all time greats seem to lack focus later in their careers or fall off with age, DT seems to defy these norms. Actually, some of them are even better today, if you can imagine, than they were in their 20s. Usually the opposite happens, especially in contemporary music.
If JP were to ever - God forbid - get to a place where he could not make it through songs without missing a ton of notes or his intonation falling apart, I think I would be incredibly disappointed and stop coming to shows. In a sense I think I have just gotten used to understanding JLB's presence and role in the band as distinct from the other members. I wouldn't call it low expectations, per se, but I have accepted that if I want to see JP, JR, JM, and MM melt my face every 2 years, I need to disengage from the vocal performance or at least engage it differently.
I absolutely agree with all of this. LaBrie just comes like a package-deal and there's so much to adore, that I can handle his voice getting 'aged'. Just hope for him he's not in too much conflict about it. After all, he has brought so much to enjoy and look up to.
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The three SDOIT tracks from the show in Tel Aviv: https://youtu.be/hbMPLKvFCh4
James wasn't as bad on this as I was expecting. He smartly chose some alternative notes rather than going for the big high notes in Losing Time/Grand Finale. Not great, but not too bad. And Mangini is just crushing it - love watching him play!
Yeah, I am so with you here.
For the first night of a tour, JLB sounds great to my ears. A little pitchy here and there, but he's mostly there.
As for the altering the melodies, I am so, so happy that he started doing this...it's so much more enjoyable to hear him confidently sing a lower melody (a la Robert Plant on virtually anything Zeppelin) than struggle with the original.
I realize that some fans feel differently, but for THIS fan, I'll happily go see DT with a 70-year-old James doing his thing, altering the songs to suit his aged vocal register. Especially bc his warmth is still there on the lower parts.
As for the rest of the band...yeah, they are absolutely killing it.
Of course I had to go back and watch the live version from Score and it's an incredible performance he just kills it nails all the high notes - that was more than 15 years ago now though. And then there's Portnoy at the end with the gong...
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For decades I have been in a place where I am honestly not even paying that much attention to the vocal. It is what it is and I enjoy the shows.
Yep. Last year I just enjoyed hearing the music in person and it was more about the total package, the brilliance and the entity of the music itself.
I honestly believe this is all we can do as fans now. Just enjoy the moment. Watch it on the blu-ray releases and listen tot eh official releases where they fix him up a little if we choose to look back on the tour, or just take in the studio recordings again. We need to stop trying to listen for the faults, or letting it be as visceral of a reaction when he can’t hit those notes anymore. He’s old, he’s vocally injured, we gotta just take it with the grain of salt that we’re seeing those songs played live in the moment and enjoy the entity of it all, not nitpicking the one aspect that can’t be perfect.
I am still holding the rest of the band to an incredibly high standard that they easily surpass every single time. DT is driven by these amazing musicians, who are pretty much a supergroup. Where many of the all time greats seem to lack focus later in their careers or fall off with age, DT seems to defy these norms. Actually, some of them are even better today, if you can imagine, than they were in their 20s. Usually the opposite happens, especially in contemporary music.
If JP were to ever - God forbid - get to a place where he could not make it through songs without missing a ton of notes or his intonation falling apart, I think I would be incredibly disappointed and stop coming to shows. In a sense I think I have just gotten used to understanding JLB's presence and role in the band as distinct from the other members. I wouldn't call it low expectations, per se, but I have accepted that if I want to see JP, JR, JM, and MM melt my face every 2 years, I need to disengage from the vocal performance or at least engage it differently.
I could be wrong (it's happened before haha), but I think if/when the bolded becomes an issue, we wouldn't see JP performing anymore. From what I've read, he is a fanatic about being able to play songs clean live or not at all (which is where I believe they are with The Glass Prison). Again, I could be remembering it wrong. He delivers beyond expectations every time I see him perform and that's no accident. When he can't anymore, he won't anymore IMO
Patiently awaiting US dates . . . . . love the setlist and have never seen CIAW live so it will be great to check that one off the list.
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For decades I have been in a place where I am honestly not even paying that much attention to the vocal. It is what it is and I enjoy the shows.
Yep. Last year I just enjoyed hearing the music in person and it was more about the total package, the brilliance and the entity of the music itself.
I honestly believe this is all we can do as fans now. Just enjoy the moment. Watch it on the blu-ray releases and listen tot eh official releases where they fix him up a little if we choose to look back on the tour, or just take in the studio recordings again. We need to stop trying to listen for the faults, or letting it be as visceral of a reaction when he can’t hit those notes anymore. He’s old, he’s vocally injured, we gotta just take it with the grain of salt that we’re seeing those songs played live in the moment and enjoy the entity of it all, not nitpicking the one aspect that can’t be perfect.
I am still holding the rest of the band to an incredibly high standard that they easily surpass every single time. DT is driven by these amazing musicians, who are pretty much a supergroup. Where many of the all time greats seem to lack focus later in their careers or fall off with age, DT seems to defy these norms. Actually, some of them are even better today, if you can imagine, than they were in their 20s. Usually the opposite happens, especially in contemporary music.
If JP were to ever - God forbid - get to a place where he could not make it through songs without missing a ton of notes or his intonation falling apart, I think I would be incredibly disappointed and stop coming to shows. In a sense I think I have just gotten used to understanding JLB's presence and role in the band as distinct from the other members. I wouldn't call it low expectations, per se, but I have accepted that if I want to see JP, JR, JM, and MM melt my face every 2 years, I need to disengage from the vocal performance or at least engage it differently.
I could be wrong (it's happened before haha), but I think if/when the bolded becomes an issue, we wouldn't see JP performing anymore. From what I've read, he is a fanatic about being able to play songs clean live or not at all (which is where I believe they are with The Glass Prison). Again, I could be remembering it wrong. He delivers beyond expectations every time I see him perform and that's no accident. When he can't anymore, he won't anymore IMO
Patiently awaiting US dates . . . . . love the setlist and have never seen CIAW live so it will be great to check that one off the list.
Just for the sake of context: JP absolutely has 'off' nights. As someone who spent a fair amount of time (i.e. years) woodshedding that dude's parts, I tend to notice to every note that's out of place. There were a couple of videos last posted from last year's tour where I cringed at a couple of points listening to JP play certain solos.
Now, that's not to say he butchered anything, bc he rarely, if ever, has a brain fart. But, when your forearm/wrist gets fatigued, you can hear it in your bends and/or alternate picked runs. When this happens, a lot of us guitarists will overcompensate and throw in something from our 'bag 'o tricks' to get through the section. For JP, this often includes a blast of alternately-picked notes (typically chromatic) that helps him reset until he gets to the next bar.
Obviously, the guy has a million notes to play each night, so even JP (who I consider one of the 'cleanest' players alive) is going to have a moment or two where his whole-note bends are a bit a flat or where he flubs a section, but the fact is, it happens. In fact, when it happens on a super-melodic part (like the second half of the "About to Crash" solo), it's just as noticeable to me as when JLB misses a lyric.
That all said, I've straight-up butchered my fair share of parts over the years, and I have absolutely no expectation of going to a live concert and seeing perfection. In fact, I tend to enjoy those points where someone messes up and grimaces for a few seconds—it's a reminder that I am watching something 'live' and in the moment. These days, that's becoming a pretty rare occurrence.
Rudess and Mangini are machines, but if I were a more proficient drummer or keyboardist, I suspect I would pick up on there mistakes as well. Myung is, well, he's so often buried in the mix I have no idea what he's playing, but it 'looks' cool!
As a singer, JLB has always and will continue to get the lion's share of the scrutiny, especially when he struggles, but the idea that he is basically a necessary evil to be endured when seeing DT live is a notion I do not subscribe to.
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For decades I have been in a place where I am honestly not even paying that much attention to the vocal. It is what it is and I enjoy the shows.
Yep. Last year I just enjoyed hearing the music in person and it was more about the total package, the brilliance and the entity of the music itself.
I honestly believe this is all we can do as fans now. Just enjoy the moment. Watch it on the blu-ray releases and listen tot eh official releases where they fix him up a little if we choose to look back on the tour, or just take in the studio recordings again. We need to stop trying to listen for the faults, or letting it be as visceral of a reaction when he can’t hit those notes anymore. He’s old, he’s vocally injured, we gotta just take it with the grain of salt that we’re seeing those songs played live in the moment and enjoy the entity of it all, not nitpicking the one aspect that can’t be perfect.
I am still holding the rest of the band to an incredibly high standard that they easily surpass every single time. DT is driven by these amazing musicians, who are pretty much a supergroup. Where many of the all time greats seem to lack focus later in their careers or fall off with age, DT seems to defy these norms. Actually, some of them are even better today, if you can imagine, than they were in their 20s. Usually the opposite happens, especially in contemporary music.
If JP were to ever - God forbid - get to a place where he could not make it through songs without missing a ton of notes or his intonation falling apart, I think I would be incredibly disappointed and stop coming to shows. In a sense I think I have just gotten used to understanding JLB's presence and role in the band as distinct from the other members. I wouldn't call it low expectations, per se, but I have accepted that if I want to see JP, JR, JM, and MM melt my face every 2 years, I need to disengage from the vocal performance or at least engage it differently.
I could be wrong (it's happened before haha), but I think if/when the bolded becomes an issue, we wouldn't see JP performing anymore. From what I've read, he is a fanatic about being able to play songs clean live or not at all (which is where I believe they are with The Glass Prison). Again, I could be remembering it wrong. He delivers beyond expectations every time I see him perform and that's no accident. When he can't anymore, he won't anymore IMO
Patiently awaiting US dates . . . . . love the setlist and have never seen CIAW live so it will be great to check that one off the list.
Just for the sake of context: JP absolutely has 'off' nights. As someone who spent a fair amount of time (i.e. years) woodshedding that dude's parts, I tend to notice to every note that's out of place. There were a couple of videos last posted from last year's tour where I cringed at a couple of points listening to JP play certain solos.
Now, that's not to say he butchered anything, bc he rarely, if ever, has a brain fart. But, when your forearm/wrist gets fatigued, you can hear it in your bends and/or alternate picked runs. When this happens, a lot of us guitarists will overcompensate and throw in something from our 'bag 'o tricks' to get through the section. For JP, this often includes a blast of alternately-picked notes (typically chromatic) that helps him reset until he gets to the next bar.
Obviously, the guy has a million notes to play each night, so even JP (who I consider one of the 'cleanest' players alive) is going to have a moment or two where his whole-note bends are a bit a flat or where he flubs a section, but the fact is, it happens. In fact, when it happens on a super-melodic part (like the second half of the "About to Crash" solo), it's just as noticeable to me as when JLB misses a lyric.
That all said, I've straight-up butchered my fair share of parts over the years, and I have absolutely no expectation of going to a live concert and seeing perfection. In fact, I tend to enjoy those points where someone messes up and grimaces for a few seconds—it's a reminder that I am watching something 'live' and in the moment. These days, that's becoming a pretty rare occurrence.
Rudess and Mangini are machines, but if I were a more proficient drummer or keyboardist, I suspect I would pick up on there mistakes as well. Myung is, well, he's so often buried in the mix I have no idea what he's playing, but it 'looks' cool!
As a singer, JLB has always and will continue to get the lion's share of the scrutiny, especially when he struggles, but the idea that he is basically a necessary evil to be endured when seeing DT live is a notion I do not subscribe to.
Everyone has off nights and messes up. As someone who also knows a fair amount of JP parts, I confirm he has missed notes and there probably shouldn't be a single night where every single note from the record was replicated. It's almost expected - or should be - that when you're trying to replicate a flurry of alternate picked notes from your recorded solos you're not going to get it to sound exactly like the record. Given these are very fine, subtle finger movements that happen dozens of times in a live setting, of course it's not going to be perfect: no one who plays this style of guitar will be.
That's not what we're talking about with JLB. We're talking about every single night not being able to sing any given song in tune from start to finish or pronounce the lyrics when your part is literally entirely diatonic eight, quarter and half notes. These are not difficult parts to sing. They aren't flurries of 16th notes, or scalar runs from the bottom of your range to the very top, or wide arpeggios, or even just a lot of notes in general. The DT vocal lines are pretty plain vanilla. Still, I do not expect him to nail every single note in every song. But the fans should be able to expect that the majority of the performances is solid, which currently it is not. The guitar equivalent of what is happening on the vocal side of the band is this at 5:15: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUA50ojVgPU
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For decades I have been in a place where I am honestly not even paying that much attention to the vocal. It is what it is and I enjoy the shows.
Yep. Last year I just enjoyed hearing the music in person and it was more about the total package, the brilliance and the entity of the music itself.
I honestly believe this is all we can do as fans now. Just enjoy the moment. Watch it on the blu-ray releases and listen tot eh official releases where they fix him up a little if we choose to look back on the tour, or just take in the studio recordings again. We need to stop trying to listen for the faults, or letting it be as visceral of a reaction when he can’t hit those notes anymore. He’s old, he’s vocally injured, we gotta just take it with the grain of salt that we’re seeing those songs played live in the moment and enjoy the entity of it all, not nitpicking the one aspect that can’t be perfect.
I am still holding the rest of the band to an incredibly high standard that they easily surpass every single time. DT is driven by these amazing musicians, who are pretty much a supergroup. Where many of the all time greats seem to lack focus later in their careers or fall off with age, DT seems to defy these norms. Actually, some of them are even better today, if you can imagine, than they were in their 20s. Usually the opposite happens, especially in contemporary music.
If JP were to ever - God forbid - get to a place where he could not make it through songs without missing a ton of notes or his intonation falling apart, I think I would be incredibly disappointed and stop coming to shows. In a sense I think I have just gotten used to understanding JLB's presence and role in the band as distinct from the other members. I wouldn't call it low expectations, per se, but I have accepted that if I want to see JP, JR, JM, and MM melt my face every 2 years, I need to disengage from the vocal performance or at least engage it differently.
I could be wrong (it's happened before haha), but I think if/when the bolded becomes an issue, we wouldn't see JP performing anymore. From what I've read, he is a fanatic about being able to play songs clean live or not at all (which is where I believe they are with The Glass Prison). Again, I could be remembering it wrong. He delivers beyond expectations every time I see him perform and that's no accident. When he can't anymore, he won't anymore IMO
Patiently awaiting US dates . . . . . love the setlist and have never seen CIAW live so it will be great to check that one off the list.
Just for the sake of context: JP absolutely has 'off' nights. As someone who spent a fair amount of time (i.e. years) woodshedding that dude's parts, I tend to notice to every note that's out of place. There were a couple of videos last posted from last year's tour where I cringed at a couple of points listening to JP play certain solos.
Now, that's not to say he butchered anything, bc he rarely, if ever, has a brain fart. But, when your forearm/wrist gets fatigued, you can hear it in your bends and/or alternate picked runs. When this happens, a lot of us guitarists will overcompensate and throw in something from our 'bag 'o tricks' to get through the section. For JP, this often includes a blast of alternately-picked notes (typically chromatic) that helps him reset until he gets to the next bar.
Obviously, the guy has a million notes to play each night, so even JP (who I consider one of the 'cleanest' players alive) is going to have a moment or two where his whole-note bends are a bit a flat or where he flubs a section, but the fact is, it happens. In fact, when it happens on a super-melodic part (like the second half of the "About to Crash" solo), it's just as noticeable to me as when JLB misses a lyric.
That all said, I've straight-up butchered my fair share of parts over the years, and I have absolutely no expectation of going to a live concert and seeing perfection. In fact, I tend to enjoy those points where someone messes up and grimaces for a few seconds—it's a reminder that I am watching something 'live' and in the moment. These days, that's becoming a pretty rare occurrence.
Rudess and Mangini are machines, but if I were a more proficient drummer or keyboardist, I suspect I would pick up on there mistakes as well. Myung is, well, he's so often buried in the mix I have no idea what he's playing, but it 'looks' cool!
As a singer, JLB has always and will continue to get the lion's share of the scrutiny, especially when he struggles, but the idea that he is basically a necessary evil to be endured when seeing DT live is a notion I do not subscribe to.
Everyone has off nights and messes up. As someone who also knows a fair amount of JP parts, I confirm he has missed notes and there probably shouldn't be a single night where every single note from the record was replicated. It's almost expected - or should be - that when you're trying to replicate a flurry of alternate picked notes from your recorded solos you're not going to get it to sound exactly like the record. Given these are very fine, subtle finger movements that happen dozens of times in a live setting, of course it's not going to be perfect: no one who plays this style of guitar will be.
That's not what we're talking about with JLB. We're talking about every single night not being able to sing any given song in tune from start to finish or pronounce the lyrics when your part is literally entirely diatonic eight, quarter and half notes. These are not difficult parts to sing. They aren't flurries of 16th notes, or scalar runs from the bottom of your range to the very top, or wide arpeggios, or even just a lot of notes in general. The DT vocal lines are pretty plain vanilla. Still, I do not expect him to nail every single note in every song. But the fans should be able to expect that the majority of the performances is solid, which currently it is not. The guitar equivalent of what is happening on the vocal side of the band is this at 5:15: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUA50ojVgPU
Fair enough, but I was not talking about JP messing up the intro to "The Glass Prison," I was talking about him messing up a 'simple' but totally memorable melody. Again, I was only looking to add context to the discussion, not gasoline.
Look, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I fully recognize that the majority (on the board of a few dozen fans at least) seems to think JLB is a liability live. I've gone on record at a few points expressing a different opinion.
Frankly, I've more than said my peace on this, so I will bow out of this convo. I'm too old (that clock is always ticking :lol) to engage in circular conversations, and this JLB talk is beginning to feel a bit like the PR thread where a few of us just go round and round and round, page after page, saying different variations of the same thing.
I dig the band (which is why I'm on this forum), and I hope they continue playing for as long as they see fit.
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I just had a thought. Everyone seemed excited that Petrucci was back to singing and the backing tracks were gone. But maybe, with all of the technical issues James had with the mic, they just didn’t have the backing vocal tracks working for that show. I guess Spain will find out tonight.
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As a singer, JLB has always and will continue to get the lion's share of the scrutiny, especially when he struggles, but the idea that he is basically a necessary evil to be endured when seeing DT live is a notion I do not subscribe to.
Yup, very well said.
That's not what we're talking about with JLB. We're talking about every single night not being able to sing any given song in tune from start to finish or pronounce the lyrics when your part is literally entirely diatonic eight, quarter and half notes. These are not difficult parts to sing. They aren't flurries of 16th notes, or scalar runs from the bottom of your range to the very top, or wide arpeggios, or even just a lot of notes in general. The DT vocal lines are pretty plain vanilla. Still, I do not expect him to nail every single note in every song. But the fans should be able to expect that the majority of the performances is solid, which currently it is not. The guitar equivalent of what is happening on the vocal side of the band is this at 5:15: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUA50ojVgPU
I think you are missing the point of WM's analogy altogether. And for many, many reasons, James' parts are far from "not difficult parts to sing" or "plain vanilla." I don't know how anyone could credibly argue otherwise, and I've heard plenty of pro and amateur singers, as well as vocal coaches, back up how difficult a lot of his vocal lines are. Look, you clearly have an ax to grind with LaBrie, and that's your right. But you couldn't be more off base on your arguments.
On a related note, I can't think of many metal singers of LaBrie's generation that sang anywhere near the difficulty of his parts that sound great nowadays. Yeah, there are some. But not many. Dickinson has been struggling for a LONG time now. Tate has been plain awful for close to 2 decades (although the difference with him is that he (1) willfully abused his voice and (2) doesn't even try). Dio has always been horrid live, even when he was young, IMO (although I will give you that his voice stayed pretty consistent even into his later years). Alder completely alters his vocal melodies (which often sounds great, by the way, so props to him for learning what his limits are and learning how to side-step them and play to his strengths, even if it changes the song up considerably). Bach has been awful for almost as long as Tate. And on and on we could go.
But more on topic, this isn't the "bash James" thread (as if that would be allowed anyway), so now that you've said your piece on that, I suggest we actually discuss the tour.
I just had a thought. Everyone seemed excited that Petrucci was back to singing and the backing tracks were gone. But maybe, with all of the technical issues James had with the mic, they just didn’t have the backing vocal tracks working for that show. I guess Spain will find out tonight.
Interesting point. To me, I think the best of both words is to keep JP's mic up and keep the backing tracks (just at a slightly lower volume), so I hope that's what they are going for.
I remember the first time I heard them soundcheck instrumentally when using the backing track, and it was amazing to hear how low the backing vocals were in the mix, but then later hear how much texture they added underneath James's voice. It was similar to when I did a singing competition that Queenryche did years ago, and they sent me the backing track sans vocals, and there were parts that had backing vocals that were so low in the mix they were barely audible compared to the other instruments. And yet, when I recorded my lead vocal over the track, the parts with the backing tracks in the background had SO much more punch and texture to them, even though the backing vocals were buried in the mix. That, IMO, is closer to where I want the backing vocal tracks to be in DT's live show. They do add quite a bit, but they don't need to be so loud that they compete with the lead vocal, even if James is choosing to sing more of a harmony than a lead. I'm good with him doing alternate vocal lines. But I want to hear him, with the vocal track being background support, and not the other way around. And JP's voice adds a different texture to the backing vocals, so notwithstanding him being self-conscious, I wish he would keep his volume up a bit more than he has on the most recent tours. It can be a distraction when it looks like he is just lip synching (even though he isn't) because we can't hear what he is actually singing.
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I just had a thought. Everyone seemed excited that Petrucci was back to singing and the backing tracks were gone. But maybe, with all of the technical issues James had with the mic, they just didn’t have the backing vocal tracks working for that show. I guess Spain will find out tonight.
Interesting point. To me, I think the best of both words is to keep JP's mic up and keep the backing tracks (just at a slightly lower volume), so I hope that's what they are going for.
I remember the first time I heard them soundcheck instrumentally when using the backing track, and it was amazing to hear how low the backing vocals were in the mix, but then later hear how much texture they added underneath James's voice. It was similar to when I did a singing competition that Queenryche did years ago, and they sent me the backing track sans vocals, and there were parts that had backing vocals that were so low in the mix they were barely audible compared to the other instruments. And yet, when I recorded my lead vocal over the track, the parts with the backing tracks in the background had SO much more punch and texture to them, even though the backing vocals were buried in the mix. That, IMO, is closer to where I want the backing vocal tracks to be in DT's live show. They do add quite a bit, but they don't need to be so loud that they compete with the lead vocal, even if James is choosing to sing more of a harmony than a lead. I'm good with him doing alternate vocal lines. But I want to hear him, with the vocal track being background support, and not the other way around. And JP's voice adds a different texture to the backing vocals, so notwithstanding him being self-conscious, I wish he would keep his volume up a bit more than he has on the most recent tours. It can be a distraction when it looks like he is just lip synching because he can't hear what he is actually singing.
I agree completely.
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With regards to the backing tracks. I wonder how much of this also depends on the venue and where you are within the venue. I say this, because the DT show in CT, I didn't recall hearing the backing tracks much if at all, I sat in the back for that show. For the NJ show, I was front row, and the backing tracks were pretty noticeable.
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For decades I have been in a place where I am honestly not even paying that much attention to the vocal. It is what it is and I enjoy the shows.
Yep. Last year I just enjoyed hearing the music in person and it was more about the total package, the brilliance and the entity of the music itself.
I honestly believe this is all we can do as fans now. Just enjoy the moment. Watch it on the blu-ray releases and listen tot eh official releases where they fix him up a little if we choose to look back on the tour, or just take in the studio recordings again. We need to stop trying to listen for the faults, or letting it be as visceral of a reaction when he can’t hit those notes anymore. He’s old, he’s vocally injured, we gotta just take it with the grain of salt that we’re seeing those songs played live in the moment and enjoy the entity of it all, not nitpicking the one aspect that can’t be perfect.
I am still holding the rest of the band to an incredibly high standard that they easily surpass every single time. DT is driven by these amazing musicians, who are pretty much a supergroup. Where many of the all time greats seem to lack focus later in their careers or fall off with age, DT seems to defy these norms. Actually, some of them are even better today, if you can imagine, than they were in their 20s. Usually the opposite happens, especially in contemporary music.
If JP were to ever - God forbid - get to a place where he could not make it through songs without missing a ton of notes or his intonation falling apart, I think I would be incredibly disappointed and stop coming to shows. In a sense I think I have just gotten used to understanding JLB's presence and role in the band as distinct from the other members. I wouldn't call it low expectations, per se, but I have accepted that if I want to see JP, JR, JM, and MM melt my face every 2 years, I need to disengage from the vocal performance or at least engage it differently.
I could be wrong (it's happened before haha), but I think if/when the bolded becomes an issue, we wouldn't see JP performing anymore. From what I've read, he is a fanatic about being able to play songs clean live or not at all (which is where I believe they are with The Glass Prison). Again, I could be remembering it wrong. He delivers beyond expectations every time I see him perform and that's no accident. When he can't anymore, he won't anymore IMO
Patiently awaiting US dates . . . . . love the setlist and have never seen CIAW live so it will be great to check that one off the list.
Just for the sake of context: JP absolutely has 'off' nights. As someone who spent a fair amount of time (i.e. years) woodshedding that dude's parts, I tend to notice to every note that's out of place. There were a couple of videos last posted from last year's tour where I cringed at a couple of points listening to JP play certain solos.
Now, that's not to say he butchered anything, bc he rarely, if ever, has a brain fart. But, when your forearm/wrist gets fatigued, you can hear it in your bends and/or alternate picked runs. When this happens, a lot of us guitarists will overcompensate and throw in something from our 'bag 'o tricks' to get through the section. For JP, this often includes a blast of alternately-picked notes (typically chromatic) that helps him reset until he gets to the next bar.
Obviously, the guy has a million notes to play each night, so even JP (who I consider one of the 'cleanest' players alive) is going to have a moment or two where his whole-note bends are a bit a flat or where he flubs a section, but the fact is, it happens. In fact, when it happens on a super-melodic part (like the second half of the "About to Crash" solo), it's just as noticeable to me as when JLB misses a lyric.
That all said, I've straight-up butchered my fair share of parts over the years, and I have absolutely no expectation of going to a live concert and seeing perfection. In fact, I tend to enjoy those points where someone messes up and grimaces for a few seconds—it's a reminder that I am watching something 'live' and in the moment. These days, that's becoming a pretty rare occurrence.
Rudess and Mangini are machines, but if I were a more proficient drummer or keyboardist, I suspect I would pick up on there mistakes as well. Myung is, well, he's so often buried in the mix I have no idea what he's playing, but it 'looks' cool!
As a singer, JLB has always and will continue to get the lion's share of the scrutiny, especially when he struggles, but the idea that he is basically a necessary evil to be endured when seeing DT live is a notion I do not subscribe to.
Myung's pretty much a machine too - just sayin. And I'm a bass player lol. But you're point is taken - everyone's entitled to make a mistake here and there (even if it's so minor only other musicians pickup on it). Even virtuoso musicians (which is what they are) like the guys in DT.
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Very nice point of view William, I can only agree on.
I really am enjoying this forum a lot, since it brings a deeper dimension to the band for me. But it has its flaws and the constant bashing of LaBrie overall, is not that respectful, I would say. With the latest topic (which is locked now) as a stand-out to my point.
On topic, darn... waiting for my gig on the 12th of Februari is taking forever.
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Very nice point of view William, I can only agree on.
I really am enjoying this forum a lot, since it brings a deeper dimension to the band for me. But it has its flaws and the constant bashing of LaBrie overall, is not that respectful, I would say. With the latest topic (which is locked now) as a stand-out to my point.
On topic, darn... waiting for my gig on the 12th of Februari is taking forever.
No one is 'bashing' any of the band members. There are some fans who are extremely loyal -- not a bad thing on its face - and are trying to define any criticism outright as 'bashing' or disrespectful - that is exactly what you appear to be doing, as though those of us who voice criticism are acting with prejudice and disrespect. It's an attempt to shut down any discussion of criticism of someone you feel strongly about.
The reason why this issue keeps coming up is because the band is touring regularly-- not because we are 'constantly' looking to disrespect someone-- and every night is a new performance. To the extent that they put themselves on stage and sell tickets, feedback and discussion will ensue. Most of it is overwhelmingly positive, but not all of it. It's coming up right now because the band is on tour as we speak and this is the place to discuss, among other things, the band's musical performance during the View tour.
That's all it is. I'll leave it at that until the next show in the tour, when hopefully we'll all agree it was a flawless performance.
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except it was considered disrespectful on the post that was locked.... :|
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Very nice point of view William, I can only agree on.
I really am enjoying this forum a lot, since it brings a deeper dimension to the band for me. But it has its flaws and the constant bashing of LaBrie overall, is not that respectful, I would say. With the latest topic (which is locked now) as a stand-out to my point.
On topic, darn... waiting for my gig on the 12th of Februari is taking forever.
No one is 'bashing' any of the band members. There are some fans who are extremely loyal -- not a bad thing on its face - and are trying to define any criticism outright as 'bashing' or disrespectful - that is exactly what you appear to be doing, as though those of us who voice criticism are acting with prejudice and disrespect. It's an attempt to shut down any discussion of criticism of someone you feel strongly about.
The reason why this issue keeps coming up is because the band is touring regularly-- not because we are 'constantly' looking to disrespect someone-- and every night is a new performance. To the extent that they put themselves on stage and sell tickets, feedback and discussion will ensue. Most of it is overwhelmingly positive, but not all of it. It's coming up right now because the band is on tour as we speak and this is the place to discuss, among other things, the band's musical performance during the View tour.
That's all it is. I'll leave it at that until the next show in the tour, when hopefully we'll all agree it was a flawless performance.
I know JLB has always been inconsistent in his live performances. But, that's just how it is, and I thought we fans already accepted that fact.
Let me tell you as well, I love Mudvayne, but man talk about a sad situation with their singer Chad Grey. His voice sounds completely shot, yet I still went and saw Mudvayne, because Mudvayne is more than the vocalist to me. Same thing with Dream Theater.
I can still talk about the live shows without mentioning the obvious target. It's really unfortunate though how Dream Theater's luck is. The first show with a new set and they have technical issues. What surprised me the most was why didn't they have a spare mic for JLB? Was the show entirely locally based, with the crew and other necessities for the band? I think this because even their production wasn't their main production set-up they've been using this tour, it's the scaled down version that they used for the Festival shows like Waken, with the big video screen. So, did the band just bring themselves, their gear, and some stage production, and left mainly the other things for the local crews, like finding the mics, cables, and things of that nature?
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https://youtu.be/hbMPLKvFCh4?t=492
kinda interesting to hear this kind of mistake in dream theater, MM skips a part but keeps the pace going and getting back at the correct parts quickly enough.
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https://youtu.be/hbMPLKvFCh4?t=492
kinda interesting to hear this kind of mistake in dream theater, MM skips a part but keeps the pace going and getting back at the correct parts quickly enough.
On the one hand, I heard he had food poisoning some time in the last 30 years, which might explain that mistake.
On the other hand, they should really replace him immediately.
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https://youtu.be/hbMPLKvFCh4?t=492
kinda interesting to hear this kind of mistake in dream theater, MM skips a part but keeps the pace going and getting back at the correct parts quickly enough.
On the one hand, I heard he had food poisoning some time in the last 30 years, which might explain that mistake.
On the other hand, they should really replace him immediately.
:lol
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Very nice point of view William, I can only agree on.
I really am enjoying this forum a lot, since it brings a deeper dimension to the band for me. But it has its flaws and the constant bashing of LaBrie overall, is not that respectful, I would say. With the latest topic (which is locked now) as a stand-out to my point.
On topic, darn... waiting for my gig on the 12th of Februari is taking forever.
You know how when you're annoyed or had a bad day and you hold in all your frustrations and anger and your partner does something very minimal which always for some reason annoys you and causes you to take all your frustrations of the day out on her which ends in an argument? That's kind of the relationship a very small percentage of DTF has with Labrie. DTF and all of its members love James like no other, but those things like his performances at times causes some of us to nitpick against him. it's cause we love him and hate seeing struggle.
As I've mentioned, he was number 2 in my top 25 singer list, and while I struggle with his vocals lately, I would never want him out of the band, that's crazy talk. he's there to the end, but it's sad to see him struggle as much as he is. No one here is here just to bash James, it's because we love the guy, his vocals, his character, what he's given us with DT and beyond, that is all. It's out of love for him and the band.
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Dio has always been horrid live, even when he was young, IMO (although I will give you that his voice stayed pretty consistent even into his later years).
WUT? To me, Dio really had one rough patch and that was the first couple of Heaven And Hell tours. He would've been 60ish then. He was pretty damn good for that final tour though considering he was dying.
But horrid live? That's just not true.
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Part of Sleeping Giant: https://youtu.be/ShGROwgLIGs
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I just love how James alter the vocal melodies of Caught In A Web and it sounds pretty good.
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The guitar equivalent of what is happening on the vocal side of the band is this at 5:15: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUA50ojVgPU
Never been a Pantera fan so not really familiar with the song but some of the comments are hilarious :lol
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Dio has always been horrid live, even when he was young, IMO (although I will give you that his voice stayed pretty consistent even into his later years).
WUT? To me, Dio really had one rough patch and that was the first couple of Heaven And Hell tours. He would've been 60ish then. He was pretty damn good for that final tour though considering he was dying.
But horrid live? That's just not true.
The thing about how bad Bruce is live these days just isn't true, either. Sure, he doesn't sound like he used to but he doesn't miss the sheer number of notes that James does. And Bruce is being way more athletic on stage, too.
Look, when even Crystalthingy (I'm sorry, I can't remember your forum name!), is being critical of James' performance, it just can't be put down as people being nitpicky. How on earth one person in the last couple of pages could describe James as sounding "great" on that first night, I just have no idea. I can't compute it. I really can't. It's wildly out of tune in several places.
But, but, but... as I've said a thousand times, James is the voice of Dream Theater and without James, there's no Dream Theater. I love him. But saying his performance is "great" is tantamount to the old Iraqi Information Minister claiming the US army hadn't arrived when tanks were rolling past behind him.
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Most of the bands downtune their songs live.
Iron Maiden, Metallica, everyone tunes at least half to a full step down.
I believe DT only did that for the I&W tour recently.
It's reasonable for James' voice to not be what it used to be 30+ years before.
To be honest i'm happy that they dropped the excessive use of backing tracks, and seems like JP's microphone is much higher in the mix this time.
I would prefer James altering melodies, and wouldn't mind if DT dropped tuning in at least some of the songs, to help the vocals being more manageable.
Let's be realistic, songs especially from I&W and Awake were pretty impossible to sing even back then, much more now.
What i'm just curious is what happened starting from the Astonishing and onwards, seems like a big change, since the tour for the self-titled album was a very good for James, at least from most of the performances i've seen.
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CIAW from Spain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSIlNHL1zUY&ab_channel=LitosComesa%C3%B1a
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Look, when even Crystalthingy (I'm sorry, I can't remember your forum name!), is being critical of James' performance, it just can't be put down as people being nitpicky.
Haha, No worries! 😁 I guess I've acquired a reputation here for being James' defender, and I still am. That's never gonna change. Though I admit that sometimes it's painful to listen to and acknowledge that something is amiss, I'm not sure "critical" is the right word as I'm more concerned for him, honestly. He's still my favorite singer, always will be, no matter what challenges he may be dealing with right now.
What i'm just curious is what happened starting from the Astonishing and onwards, seems like a big change, since the tour for the self-titled album was a very good for James, at least from most of the performances i've seen.
This is EXACTLY what I'm saying! Something obviously happened during the Astonishing, because let's face it, people - this was no gradual decline. This was a very marked, sudden change which coincided with after that tour to the present. I don't know whether it was just the effects of singing what was essentially a three and a half hour opera all by himself every night (which can't be too healthy, even Broadway leads have understudies to give their voices a break, and they're only singing one role!), or else some sort of reinjury happened that they're not telling us about (which is of course none of our business anyway as it's his personal health, they don't owe us anything, though arguably he may face less brutal criticism if such a thing were to come out). Or a combination of these things.
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CAIW sounded decent.
A few more coming out of Spain now:
About to Crash: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHmJsMXoy3Y
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Look, when even Crystalthingy (I'm sorry, I can't remember your forum name!), is being critical of James' performance, it just can't be put down as people being nitpicky.
Haha, No worries! 😁 I guess I've acquired a reputation here for being James' defender, and I still am. That's never gonna change. Though I admit that sometimes it's painful to listen to and acknowledge that something is amiss, I'm not sure "critical" is the right word as I'm more concerned for him, honestly. He's still my favorite singer, always will be, no matter what challenges he may be dealing with right now.
What i'm just curious is what happened starting from the Astonishing and onwards, seems like a big change, since the tour for the self-titled album was a very good for James, at least from most of the performances i've seen.
This is EXACTLY what I'm saying! Something obviously happened during the Astonishing, because let's face it, people - this was no gradual decline. This was a very marked, sudden change which coincided with after that tour to the present. I don't know whether it was just the effects of singing what was essentially a three and a half hour opera all by himself every night (which can't be too healthy, even Broadway leads have understudies to give their voices a break, and they're only singing one role!), or else some sort of reinjury happened that they're not telling us about (which is of course none of our business anyway as it's his personal health, they don't owe us anything, though arguably he may face less brutal criticism if such a thing were to come out). Or a combination of these things.
Putting aside that I disagree this was all sudden and totally out of the blue, we can't say 'something obviously happened' as that would be pure speculation, unsupported by even a shred of evidence. The band, JLB, have said zero.
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Putting aside that I disagree this was all sudden and totally out of the blue, we can't say 'something obviously happened' as that would be pure speculation, unsupported by even a shred of evidence. The band, JLB, have said zero.
At least we agree about this, it is of course speculation. It's not like when Adele had vocal surgery and the whole world knew about it (and I'm not speculating anything of the sort, and even if that were the case it's his choice to say something or not). But I'm not the only one who regards this as sudden, and coinciding with that timeframe, including fans I've talked to irl. Something is wrong, obviously, and whatever side of this discussion we fall on I think we can all agree that we want to see him pull through it in whatever way is best for both him and the band.
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You know how when you're annoyed or had a bad day and you hold in all your frustrations and anger and your partner does something very minimal which always for some reason annoys you and causes you to take all your frustrations of the day out on her which ends in an argument? That's kind of the relationship a very small percentage of DTF has with Labrie. DTF and all of its members love James like no other, but those things like his performances at times causes some of us to nitpick against him. it's cause we love him and hate seeing struggle.
As I've mentioned, he was number 2 in my top 25 singer list, and while I struggle with his vocals lately, I would never want him out of the band, that's crazy talk. he's there to the end, but it's sad to see him struggle as much as he is. No one here is here just to bash James, it's because we love the guy, his vocals, his character, what he's given us with DT and beyond, that is all. It's out of love for him and the band.
Well said. We criticize what we love.
It's like the brother analogy. You and your little brother as kids can be fighting in the front lawn, but if some jerky neighbor kid comes by and makes fun of your brother, you immediately stop fighting with your brother and defend him to the neighbor kid. And I suspect that is how most of us would be with DT and JLB. Put most of us on a general music forum and we'd jump to the defense of Dream Theater and/or JLB, but here, amongst big fans, we are not afraid to critique and "fight" (disagree) a little about it.
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I am one year younger than James. And I can say everything suddenly gets worse after 55. I am healthy, take care of myself, etc. But I see why people retire, because it becomes a full-tome job managing all the issues!. Of course, you start to notice things a little bit in your 40's, and then 50's. But after 55...it's been shocking to me. It could be that for James. The after 55 drop plus old injury could simply be it.
Aside from that, though, the last tour, I thought he did really well. I don't say anything, but being flat really hurts my ears. He has always been that way live. But last tour, he sounded really good and I really only thought it was a bit noticeable at the first concert saw in the first week. By the next week, much better, and I saw them at the end of the US tour, and he was great. Not young voice great, but old voice great. (And I was there when he did the FU, lol! These are the moments to catch live!)
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How's the crowd interaction? Is it just straight song to song or is there a bit of chit chat etc? Any extended jams/nuggets thrown in to the songs?
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Not going to comment (again) on James' performance, but will say it's so nice to finally hear JP's backing vocals again. He might not be a great lead vocalist, but for BGVs he's doing a GREAT job (judging by various youtube clips). I'll never understand why they had his mic muted and used very fake sounding tracks instead for years.
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When Portnoy and Petrucci started doing backing vocals it was rough for a while, but they both have really improved their vocals. I don’t know if Petrucci is self conscious about his voice, but John sounds really good now and it adds a nice compliment to James vocals. I agree with Bosk that they don’t need to completely ditch the prerecorded vocals, just turn them down. A good mix would be 50% Petrucci, 50% prerecorded backing vocals -which create really full sound. Either way, I’m very happy they have decided to turn Petrucci’s mic up and let him sing
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CIAW from Spain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSIlNHL1zUY&ab_channel=LitosComesa%C3%B1a
James sounds good here! Very very happy that John's vocals are, indeed, back to prominence in the mix again.
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CIAW from Spain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSIlNHL1zUY&ab_channel=LitosComesa%C3%B1a
James sounds good here! Very very happy that John's vocals are, indeed, back to prominence in the mix again.
Damn I love that song.
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CIAW from Spain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSIlNHL1zUY&ab_channel=LitosComesa%C3%B1a
James sounds good here! Very very happy that John's vocals are, indeed, back to prominence in the mix again.
Damn I love that song.
His choices on the vocal melody are good in my book–it's always been a lukewarm song for me, and I actually like it sung in a lower register.
"Voices" is a top 5 song for me, but if they did it live and JLB sang the chorus a full octave lower, I'd be so much happier. It's the quiet bridge and JP's solo that make that song what it is (for me at least)
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I've just seen the Barcelona gig. Very happy to hear JP backing vocals instead of the prerecorded ones.It helps a lot to feel the live vibe. The mix was great, you could hear the bass clearly.
And IMHO,this set list is better than the previous one. I think it's the first time I hear CIAW in twenty years.
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I am glad that everyone seems to be enjoying the new set - I hope it comes stateside so I can finally add Caught in a Web to my "heard-it-live" collection.
But I personally prefer the previous set. The selections from Six Degrees are delightful after not being played in so long, but I was fortunate enough to have been in the audience for Score, and it's just going to be tough to EVER top that particular performance of Six Degrees, IMO.
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This setlist looks amazing! My wife will freak out if Solitary Shell makes its way back to the U.S. Plus the new album tracks are fantastic cuts. Envious of Euro fans right now!
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I've just watched some clips from Barcelona concert. No exaggeration, James sounds great. I'm so glad and hyped.
PMU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AJbennifxM&ab_channel=HellYeah%21
TCOT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlx59v1vIPo&ab_channel=MechDvil7
SS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QNvt2Zt0QE&ab_channel=TonyMu%C3%B1oz
6:00 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_jMwarlHG0&ab_channel=TonyMu%C3%B1oz
I hope they'll add some other unplayed songs for the US dates and make a DVD.
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James indeed sounds so much better, great to see!
Also really liked Mike's performance on Solitary Shell, he really is an incredibly versatile drummer.
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I was fortunate enough to have been in the audience for Score
:hefdaddy
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CIAW from Spain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSIlNHL1zUY&ab_channel=LitosComesa%C3%B1a
James sounds good here! Very very happy that John's vocals are, indeed, back to prominence in the mix again.
Damn I love that song.
His choices on the vocal melody are good in my book–it's always been a lukewarm song for me, and I actually like it sung in a lower register.
Agreed! Admittedly I love CIAW, but I think his interpretations of the "Seen the path, the one you take" section sounds absoutely incredible here.
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I've just watched some clips from Barcelona concert. No exaggeration, James sounds great. I'm so glad and hyped.
PMU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AJbennifxM&ab_channel=HellYeah%21
TCOT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlx59v1vIPo&ab_channel=MechDvil7
SS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QNvt2Zt0QE&ab_channel=TonyMu%C3%B1oz
6:00 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_jMwarlHG0&ab_channel=TonyMu%C3%B1oz
I hope they'll add some other unplayed songs for the US dates and make a DVD.
Thanks for sharing! Yeah he sounds great!
I feel like we go through this at the beginning of every tour. James has some rough performances and the usual suspects say, "Oh god, maybe they should get a new vocalist!" After warming up his voice over another show or two he is in top form, or...well, top form for a dude that is almost 60 singing insanely difficult songs.
I'm glad he's modifying some vocal melodies now. I think we've heard them enough times almost identical to the album that he gets a pass on not being able to sing like he's in his 20s anymore. I'm an average Rush fan and my friend is a huge fan. I asked him what he thought about them tuning down so low and he said, "I've heard it enough times the original way. It's kind of cool to hear it a bit different."
I do wish they'd bring back the backing tracks. I know, I know, damned if you do, damned if you don't. I'm glad you can hear Petrucci more though. But we all know James doesn't have the power he once had. And that's fine. He has sounded amazing long after he had a right to so I get why some people might find it a bit jarring that he struggled more in the last few years. I swear, 90% of the haters really can't constructively think things through and put everything in context.
For instance, I saw Bob Seger a few years ago. The arena went nuts for him even though Old Time Rock n Roll sounded NOTHING like on the radio. James struggling through a song sounds much more like the album version that Bob Seger singing one of his biggest hits. And yeah, the majority of Seger's audience probably hadn't even listened to any of his music other than when it randomly comes on the radio in years, so a DT audience has different expectations, but the human factor is still there. Take what we can get and enjoy what we can or shut up unless you can constructively critique the situation with full context. A lot of people on this board are able to (not all though).
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I've just watched some clips from Barcelona concert. No exaggeration, James sounds great. I'm so glad and hyped.
PMU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AJbennifxM&ab_channel=HellYeah%21
TCOT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlx59v1vIPo&ab_channel=MechDvil7
SS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QNvt2Zt0QE&ab_channel=TonyMu%C3%B1oz
6:00 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_jMwarlHG0&ab_channel=TonyMu%C3%B1oz
I hope they'll add some other unplayed songs for the US dates and make a DVD.
Agreed he sounds really good and much approved from last years tour. Happy for him and all us fans of his!
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I still don't think he sounds that great at all but changing the melodies makes it all much more palatable.
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I still don't think he sounds that great at all but changing the melodies makes it all much more palatable.
You’re just a ray of sunshine all of the time.
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I still don't think he sounds that great at all but changing the melodies makes it all much more palatable.
You’re just a ray of sunshine all of the time.
He makes spot-on observations though. These performances are consistent with the prior.
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I only watched Solitary Shell, but I agree. He sounded okay on the chorus, but he sounded warbly as heck on the verses. Not sure what people are hearing for that to pass as "great," but to each their own.
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I think we have more than enough audience footage from the View tour to say that the live shows are not due to mechanical or equipment issues. It's not an injury or just a weird one-off night. We are just in a different period. We can argue about when that change started but it doesn't matter ultimately-- here we are. Either it stops you from seeing the guys or it doesn't. If you haven't seen the tour yet and are on the fence, I encourage you to see them. It's a great show.
I am still hoping the band comes back to the US because I want to see the new set list. I hope that JLB does his best and I am rooting for him, but right now there is a gulf between him the abilities of the instrumentalists. IMO, fan disappointment is not going to facilitate a lineup change at this stage. It's too far down the road to take a different path...no matter what happens on that stage and even if ticket sales were to go down 50% as a result. Just enjoy the ride if you can.
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I wouldn't mind at all if they played Never Enough again. It's a great live song and it's one I actually got to see live, but too bad I wasn't that much of a fan yet.
"What would you say
If I walked away
Would you appreciate
But then it'd be too late
Cause I can only take so much of your ungrateful ways."
I think it'd be neat to hear how JLB sing this now, even if his voice isn't up to certain fans high standards. I am just grateful that the band is able to tour and I get to hear the actual vocalist sing the songs. I feel the same exact way about Tesla playing Edison's Medicine, at least I get to still hear that song played by the band live. At least I still get to see the band live. That's all that matters to me.
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I still don't think he sounds that great at all but changing the melodies makes it all much more palatable.
You’re just a ray of sunshine all of the time.
Oh....sorry. OMG James sounds amazing fucking amazing here! I don't think I've ever heard him sound this good. Best he's sounded in years, what a performance. ::)
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I think we have more than enough audience footage from the View tour to say that the live shows are not due to mechanical or equipment issues. It's not an injury or just a weird one-off night. We are just in a different period. We can argue about when that change started but it doesn't matter ultimately-- here we are. Either it stops you from seeing the guys or it doesn't. If you haven't seen the tour yet and are on the fence, I encourage you to see them. It's a great show.
I am still hoping the band comes back to the US because I want to see the new set list. I hope that JLB does his best and I am rooting for him, but right now there is a gulf between him the abilities of the instrumentalists. IMO, fan disappointment is not going to facilitate a lineup change at this stage. It's too far down the road to take a different path...no matter what happens on that stage and even if ticket sales were to go down 50% as a result. Just enjoy the ride if you can.
Summed up really nicely mate.
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TCOT from Barcelona: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H3AtWnhfUY&ab_channel=Livemusicshows
And I think Spanish fans are one of best.
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I have to agree that James sounds much better than he did a few days ago in Tel Aviv. He has even finally returned to singing the "and at last the time has come..." melody in BITS in the normal register. :metal
I'm glad to see / hear that!
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I still don't think he sounds that great at all but changing the melodies makes it all much more palatable.
You’re just a ray of sunshine all of the time.
Oh....sorry. OMG James sounds amazing fucking amazing here! I don't think I've ever heard him sound this good. Best he's sounded in years, what a performance. ::)
(https://i.etsystatic.com/14310477/r/il/5effb5/3213910829/il_fullxfull.3213910829_9b36.jpg)
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I still don't think he sounds that great at all but changing the melodies makes it all much more palatable.
You’re just a ray of sunshine all of the time.
Oh....sorry. OMG James sounds amazing fucking amazing here! I don't think I've ever heard him sound this good. Best he's sounded in years, what a performance. ::)
(https://i.etsystatic.com/14310477/r/il/5effb5/3213910829/il_fullxfull.3213910829_9b36.jpg)
Me when the sun comes to shine my way, and healing waters bury all my pain
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I still don't think he sounds that great at all but changing the melodies makes it all much more palatable.
You’re just a ray of sunshine all of the time.
Oh....sorry. OMG James sounds amazing fucking amazing here! I don't think I've ever heard him sound this good. Best he's sounded in years, what a performance. ::)
(https://i.etsystatic.com/14310477/r/il/5effb5/3213910829/il_fullxfull.3213910829_9b36.jpg)
Me when the sun comes to shine my way, and healing waters bury all my pain
When Iron Man and Iron Monger were fighting mid-air in the climax of the first Iron Man, you could almost say that Tony Stark was crossing Bridges in the sky.
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TCOT in Barcelona. What happened at about the 6:18 mark? James pointed at someone, flipped them off and sounded like he said "You getting all you need?" "F you." Interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlx59v1vIPo
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Now that I think about it, they probably added BITS to this tour's setlist because it's also sort of a view from the top of the world/sky.
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TCOT in Barcelona. What happened at about the 6:18 mark? James pointed at someone, flipped them off and sounded like he said "You getting all you need?" "F you." Interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlx59v1vIPo
Sounds like someone from the crowd would have to opine what happened exactly. Probably someone in the audience was disrespectful.
As far as his response is concerned, I think it's extremely unprofessional for anyone in the band to insert 'F you...' etc into a live performance. It's beneath the high standards of the band, quite frankly, and puts a stain on the song.
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TCOT in Barcelona. What happened at about the 6:18 mark? James pointed at someone, flipped them off and sounded like he said "You getting all you need?" "F you." Interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlx59v1vIPo
Sounds like someone from the crowd would have to opine what happened exactly. Probably someone in the audience was disrespectful.
As far as his response is concerned, I think it's extremely unprofessional for anyone in the band to insert 'F you...' etc into a live performance. It's beneath the high standards of the band, quite frankly, and puts a stain on the song.
What are these high standards of the band?
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TCOT in Barcelona. What happened at about the 6:18 mark? James pointed at someone, flipped them off and sounded like he said "You getting all you need?" "F you." Interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlx59v1vIPo
Sounds like someone from the crowd would have to opine what happened exactly. Probably someone in the audience was disrespectful.
As far as his response is concerned, I think it's extremely unprofessional for anyone in the band to insert 'F you...' etc into a live performance. It's beneath the high standards of the band, quite frankly, and puts a stain on the song.
What are these high standards of the band?
They don't have any?
Also want to add that this is not the first time that during a concert-- though not necessarily in the middle of a song-- JLB has said 'F you' to the fans. I find it extremely un-classy and childish for a grown man who has spent over 30 years as a professional musician to behave this way. I am not saying a response of some sort is never warranted. I just think his behavior is out of line and a little disappointing. I could never imagine in a million years John Petrucci behaving this way.
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TCOT in Barcelona. What happened at about the 6:18 mark? James pointed at someone, flipped them off and sounded like he said "You getting all you need?" "F you." Interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlx59v1vIPo
Sounds like someone from the crowd would have to opine what happened exactly. Probably someone in the audience was disrespectful.
As far as his response is concerned, I think it's extremely unprofessional for anyone in the band to insert 'F you...' etc into a live performance. It's beneath the high standards of the band, quite frankly, and puts a stain on the song.
What are these high standards of the band?
They don't have any?
If they do, I have no idea what they are. That's why I asked you, what are the high standards of the band? Since you claim to know what these high standards of the band are.
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TCOT in Barcelona. What happened at about the 6:18 mark? James pointed at someone, flipped them off and sounded like he said "You getting all you need?" "F you." Interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlx59v1vIPo
Sounds like someone from the crowd would have to opine what happened exactly. Probably someone in the audience was disrespectful.
As far as his response is concerned, I think it's extremely unprofessional for anyone in the band to insert 'F you...' etc into a live performance. It's beneath the high standards of the band, quite frankly, and puts a stain on the song.
What are these high standards of the band?
They don't have any?
If they do, I have no idea what they are. That's why I asked you, what are the high standards of the band? Since you claim to know what these high standards of the band are.
I added a little more to my previous post. The band members in DT are extremely professional both on and off stage and they take their job and image very seriously. It doesn't mean there is some great charter of official standards they have hanging at DT studios. You don't see the band members as embodying a high degree of professionalism after 30 years in the public eye? I mean, it seems pretty obvious to me.
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TCOT in Barcelona. What happened at about the 6:18 mark? James pointed at someone, flipped them off and sounded like he said "You getting all you need?" "F you." Interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlx59v1vIPo
Sounds like someone from the crowd would have to opine what happened exactly. Probably someone in the audience was disrespectful.
As far as his response is concerned, I think it's extremely unprofessional for anyone in the band to insert 'F you...' etc into a live performance. It's beneath the high standards of the band, quite frankly, and puts a stain on the song.
What are these high standards of the band?
They don't have any?
Also want to add that this is not the first time that during a concert-- though not necessarily in the middle of a song-- JLB has said 'F you' to the fans. I find it extremely un-classy and childish for a grown man who has spent over 30 years as a professional musician to behave this way. I am not saying a response of some sort is never warranted. I just think his behavior is out of line and a little disappointing. I could never imagine in a million years John Petrucci behaving this way.
I dunno man–personally speaking, if someone is going to hurl insults or gestures (not saying this happened here, just in general), I think an artist/actor/comedian/whoever has every right to hurl them back.
Is it childish? Sure. But I'm not going to lose respect for someone if they feel like they need to defend themselves.
As far as Petrucci goes–I suspect (again, correct me if I'm wrong) that you don't know him personally. What you, I, and virtually every member of this board know of the man is what he chooses to share in public.
That said, he's human, and even HE has a breaking point. We all do. Get in the guys face on the wrong day and he very well might flip you the bird.
I think the bigger question here is, why the hell do people buy tickets to shows only to harass the band?
I went to see, oh God I wish I could remember who, maybe Tool??? Anyway, I went to see a band some years back, and this guy behind me spent a good half hour screaming, at the top of his lungs, "you fucking blow!"
Now, he was a tad drunk, but still.
Finally, I turned around and asked him what his deal was. He looked at me like I had two heads and said, "they used to be good, but now this new stuff fucking blows!"
Well, fair enough. But still, what the hell? I asked him why he spent seventy bucks on a ticket to see a band he didn't like.
He looked at me, shrugged, and said he had no idea. Then (thankfully) he went to get another beer and never came back.
Point is, there's guys like that at every show.
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No big deal. I mean I don't defend what James did on the stage but this kind of things could happen, especially among rock/metal bands. This doesn't define what band's standards are. "Come on James, you can't yell F*ck you to someone on the stage because we have high standards."... I remember James kicked or pushed someone from the audience back in 93 or 94. Shit sometimes happens. I've seen worse from many bands that globally known. They are human and it doesn't take away from their personality. No matter what James is one of the class act and down the earth musician in the music community.
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TCOT in Barcelona. What happened at about the 6:18 mark? James pointed at someone, flipped them off and sounded like he said "You getting all you need?" "F you." Interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlx59v1vIPo
Sounds like someone from the crowd would have to opine what happened exactly. Probably someone in the audience was disrespectful.
As far as his response is concerned, I think it's extremely unprofessional for anyone in the band to insert 'F you...' etc into a live performance. It's beneath the high standards of the band, quite frankly, and puts a stain on the song.
What are these high standards of the band?
They don't have any?
If they do, I have no idea what they are. That's why I asked you, what are the high standards of the band? Since you claim to know what these high standards of the band are.
I added a little more to my previous post. The band members in DT are extremely professional both on and off stage and they take their job and image very seriously. It doesn't mean there is some great charter of official standards they have hanging at DT studios. You don't see the band members as embodying a high degree of professionalism after 30 years in the public eye? I mean, it seems pretty obvious to me.
If anything, I'd say it's the audience member that was being childish.
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Just my two cents here, there's people like this at almost any gig you go to. Especially for a band the size of DT. Hell, I've experienced it a few times as a (former) gigging musician just playing kinda crummy local venues. James is well within is right to give as good as he gets. He's putting on a show and it can't feel good to have someone have effectively paid money to assumably shout something unpleasant at you. I feel it's the case for most performances. If you heckle at a comedy show, local indie gig, etc you're probably gonna get something back. I think that's only rarer in bigger venues because the musicians are less likely to hear you.
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TCOT in Barcelona. What happened at about the 6:18 mark? James pointed at someone, flipped them off and sounded like he said "You getting all you need?" "F you." Interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlx59v1vIPo
It was actually me in the crowd and James recognised me and gave it to me for slagging his vocals off on DTF. ;D
Seriously though, I love it. We don't know what was going on in the audience so James obviously felt the need to tell the guy to get fucked so more power to him. I don't understand why people pay to go to a gig and end up being fuckwits to other people in the crowd or the band.
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TCOT in Barcelona. What happened at about the 6:18 mark? James pointed at someone, flipped them off and sounded like he said "You getting all you need?" "F you." Interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlx59v1vIPo
Sounds like someone from the crowd would have to opine what happened exactly. Probably someone in the audience was disrespectful.
As far as his response is concerned, I think it's extremely unprofessional for anyone in the band to insert 'F you...' etc into a live performance. It's beneath the high standards of the band, quite frankly, and puts a stain on the song.
What are these high standards of the band?
They don't have any?
Also want to add that this is not the first time that during a concert-- though not necessarily in the middle of a song-- JLB has said 'F you' to the fans. I find it extremely un-classy and childish for a grown man who has spent over 30 years as a professional musician to behave this way. I am not saying a response of some sort is never warranted. I just think his behavior is out of line and a little disappointing. I could never imagine in a million years John Petrucci behaving this way.
I'm guessing you're not a Bruce Dickinson fan then!? ;D
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TCOT in Barcelona. What happened at about the 6:18 mark? James pointed at someone, flipped them off and sounded like he said "You getting all you need?" "F you." Interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlx59v1vIPo
Looks to me he's saying it to the guy holding his camera high above his head, but hard to tell for sure. Getting all you need could refer to videoing. I think it's well known the band doesn't like people taking video of them (even though I've done it plenty). Maybe that person was obnoxious (they look it in that clip) for most of the concert. While I don't think it's worth the effort to shit on people taking video, I generally don't have a problem with this and kind of like it. A metal front man should have *some* appropriate attitude from time to time and I think that fits the bill here.
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Doesn’t bother me on its own, but kind of a bummer that’s what it takes to get some quality mid-song spontaneity and interaction out of the frontman. Would like to see more for sure.
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I highly doubt the guy was only videoing but I could be wrong. I don't think videoing alone would have provoked such a sharp response in the year 2023, when this is happening at literally every show. There was a kind of agitation that indicated more to it.
Hey, to each his own. It goes without saying that a lot of people feel like boorish behavior is acceptable/expected/normal for rock and metal musicians though they wouldn't find it appropriate for a lawyer or investment banker or a locksmith to do the same. Just as a small example, for years, Pantera sold hundreds of thousands of tickets despite the fact that their singer was getting wasted, saying all sorts of things to the fans like 'I got a big dick' etc and slurring his speech at every show. And for sure JLB is not the first to repeatedly give the bird to the fans in a live setting. I am not comparing what happened during TCOT to the worst thing that's ever happened, but it's just in poor taste and I don't think 'well it's a rock show' is a particularly satisfying defense. His F you response to the lip synching speculation was also pre-mediated and I think showed a surprising degree of fragility. While he wasn't lip synching, the fans were actually onto something...he was getting pre-recorded help.
I remember over 20 years ago I saw Alien Ant Farm open for Taproot and Linkin Park. The crowd was very obviously not pleased with their musical style. We were very close to the strage and a group of kids in front of me screamed insults at the band for the better part of their act, including 'you suck balls! get off the stage!'. After some time went by, the lead singer in the middle of a song took out a condom, asked the kids if they lost their condom, filled it with air and floated it directly at them. This discussion reminded me of that event and I am still not sure what I think. Sometimes fans can cross the line for sure. At the end of the day, the more JLB shows these little things are getting under his skin, the more they'll continue to occur.
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LaBrie is a pure prof... but he was crystal clear about his vocal crash back in the days with his injury, that he was going through a very dark period and was constantly doubting his own abilities. Of course I hope that is not the case here - and it's way too early to drop that label just on a f* you to the croud - but I have my concerns.
He knows his abilities aren't what they were when he was constantly spot-on and I truly hope that doesn't cost him too much joy in life. And I also believe he can be difficult to handle or to be in the tourbus with, when he struggles each day.
He brought us all way too much overall, to be disconnected with in the late fall of their carreer.
edit: Not saying that you can't critisize him anymore or should only adore his voice, even when it lacks. I can understand fans like wolfking who have been fan for decades... that it's a hard swollow when you hear him these days, compared to what it used to be.
My first Dream Theater concert was Images, Words & Beyond in '17... so what LaBrie performs these days, is what I'm used to.
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LaBrie is a pure prof... but he was crystal clear about his vocal crash back in the days with his injury, that he was going through a very dark period and was constantly doubting his own abilities. Of course I hope that is not the case here - and it's way too early to drop that label just on a f* you to the croud - but I have my concerns.
He knows his abilities aren't what they were when he was constantly spot-on and I truly hope that doesn't cost him too much joy in life. And I also believe he can be difficult to handle or to be in the tourbus with, when he struggles each day.
He brought us all way too much overall, to be disconnected with in the late fall of their carreer.
edit: Not saying that you can't critisize him anymore or should only adore his voice, even when it lacks. I can understand fans like wolfking who have been fan for decades... that it's a hard swollow when you hear him these days, compared to what it used to be.
My first Dream Theater concert was Images, Words & Beyond in '17... so what LaBrie performs these days, is what I'm used to.
I think James would know though that to really feel the joy in life, he'd have to suffer through the pain.
Seriously though, since you mentioned me, I really don't mean to sound like a dick, I'm just calling it as I see it. I love the guy and its more just a shame. Any aging vocalist going through the same thing is no exception. I just think the band could do a bit more to accommodate him.
I've been a fan for about 25 years so, not as long as a lot of guys on here and I've only seen them once live so it's not a big thing in that regard, it's just inevitable but still unfortunate. I just kind of can't swallow some of the praise his vocals are getting here. As I said I love the guy, but I'm not going to polish his turds.
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I think James would know though that to really feel the joy in life, he'd have to suffer through the pain.
Surrender, Trust & Passion is all he's left to.
I've been a fan for about 25 years so, not as long as a lot of guys on here and I've only seen them once live so it's not a big thing in that regard, it's just inevitable but still unfortunate.
Can be that I am misreading your post completely, but are you really saying that you only 've seen them once, live? Now, I can follow that when you live in Alaska, but how come you don't visit them more often?
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I just noticed the tiny gong that Mangini hits at the end of Grand Finale :rollin
(https://i.imgur.com/Wsse58e.png)
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Seriously though, since you mentioned me, I really don't mean to sound like a dick, I'm just calling it as I see it. I love the guy and its more just a shame. Any aging vocalist going through the same thing is no exception. I just think the band could do a bit more to accommodate him.
I've been a fan for about 25 years so, not as long as a lot of guys on here and I've only seen them once live so it's not a big thing in that regard, it's just inevitable but still unfortunate. I just kind of can't swallow some of the praise his vocals are getting here. As I said I love the guy, but I'm not going to polish his turds.
Honestly, and I hadn't thought of this before, I don't think the band's current approach does James any favors. By having the full scale production with the video screens and the click track and the same set list every night, it is set up where nearly everything is perfect, so when the singer is off a bit, it is that much more noticeable. 20 years ago, when they weren't playing the same sets every night and not to a click, the band felt more loose and maybe playing this song we rarely do sounds a bit rough around the edges to where James struggling a bit didn't stand out quite so much. I guess that's the difference between a rock concert and a rock production. Not saying the band should now think, "Okay, let's go out and play some stuff wrong to make James sound less bad," merely that the approach sets it up to where any imperfections on the part of the singer, whose instrument is more human than the others, are going to stand out.
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I've just watched some clips from Barcelona concert. No exaggeration, James sounds great. I'm so glad and hyped.
PMU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AJbennifxM&ab_channel=HellYeah%21
TCOT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlx59v1vIPo&ab_channel=MechDvil7
SS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QNvt2Zt0QE&ab_channel=TonyMu%C3%B1oz
6:00 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_jMwarlHG0&ab_channel=TonyMu%C3%B1oz
I hope they'll add some other unplayed songs for the US dates and make a DVD.
Agreed he sounds really good and much approved from last years tour. Happy for him and all us fans of his!
I just watched these last night. It's a lot stronger and less concerning than Tel Aviv. And there were many moments when that lovely warm sparkling tenor sound just blossomed and it was like, ✨ THERE you are, James! ✨
I truly hope this is a new direction. Even if he has to change a line now and again as he did here, if we still hear that beautiful sound overall, it's a good direction.
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I just noticed the tiny gong that Mangini hits at the end of Grand Finale :rollin
(https://i.imgur.com/Wsse58e.png)
Compared to the size of the one he has on LALP, definitive proof that it's not about the size, but what you do with it
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Honestly, and I hadn't thought of this before, I don't think the band's current approach does James any favors. By having the full scale production with the video screens and the click track and the same set list every night, it is set up where nearly everything is perfect, so when the singer is off a bit, it is that much more noticeable. 20 years ago, when they weren't playing the same sets every night and not to a click, the band felt more loose and maybe playing this song we rarely do sounds a bit rough around the edges to where James struggling a bit didn't stand out quite so much. I guess that's the difference between a rock concert and a rock production. Not saying the band should now think, "Okay, let's go out and play some stuff wrong to make James sound less bad," merely that the approach sets it up to where any imperfections on the part of the singer, whose instrument is more human than the others, are going to stand out.
I think the biggest disservice to his vocals were the pre-recorded backing tracks. Current day James likes to change vocal lines a lot, sometimes even singing them in the wrong places or with the wrong rhythmic accents, so when they were adding the piped in vocals, those things clashed really bad because he wasn't spot on perfectly in time for every one of those. Now that they, hopefully, retired those for good and got JP to be heard again, it's sounding a lot more "live and organic", though it's obvious that James doesn't have the power he used to have the last decade or so. Which leads us to...
I'm just calling it as I see it. I love the guy and its more just a shame. Any aging vocalist going through the same thing is no exception. I just think the band could do a bit more to accommodate him.
I've been a fan for about 25 years so, not as long as a lot of guys on here and I've only seen them once live so it's not a big thing in that regard, it's just inevitable but still unfortunate. I just kind of can't swallow some of the praise his vocals are getting here. As I said I love the guy, but I'm not going to polish his turds.
I agree with most of what you've said here overall. Pointing out the obvious flaws in his current performances isn't hating on the guy, it's just telling it as it is. Surely sometimes people express them in a bad way, and that's not allowed here, but it's not like we all have to blindly praise the guy's abilities just because we're in a fan board. And this same thing applies to all the other members, who each get their own share of hate from different groups for different reasons.
Also...
I just noticed the tiny gong that Mangini hits at the end of Grand Finale :rollin
(https://i.imgur.com/Wsse58e.png)
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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A nice review.
https://www.progjazz.org/dream-theater-aviles-espana-2023/?fbclid=IwAR3X9w6wV7so5uzcH-egCXK214JDMdrQmWyO3mzOo9dWLNDz2JmDUyrWwsA
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I think James would know though that to really feel the joy in life, he'd have to suffer through the pain.
Surrender, Trust & Passion is all he's left to.
I've been a fan for about 25 years so, not as long as a lot of guys on here and I've only seen them once live so it's not a big thing in that regard, it's just inevitable but still unfortunate.
Can be that I am misreading your post completely, but are you really saying that you only 've seen them once, live? Now, I can follow that when you live in Alaska, but how come you don't visit them more often?
I'm in Australia. I actually don't know how many times they have been out here. I saw them on the SC tour. I knew they came here on the Black Clouds tour but I missed that one. I've never been a big concert guy nevertheless.
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The Napoli show was bonkers. There were about 10000 people in attendance, they played top notch with a lot of interaction with the crowd, and James was superb even if he cut off some high notes from the most difficult songs. In fact he did not do it uniformly, he nailed Pull me under to the wall while CIAW was a bit underwhelming in the middle part which is very high. Overall he knocked it out of the park. I will try to post some videos tomorrow.
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I just noticed the tiny gong that Mangini hits at the end of Grand Finale :rollin
(https://i.imgur.com/Wsse58e.png)
Really cool, he really plays it! (It would be a triggered gong?): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTyW9yQlLEQ (around 41:30)
By the way, I totally suport only JLB and JP making all the vocals, in their possible capabilty (and, one step futher, no playback at all - or barely - for the band). Like someone said here the pre-recorded vocals are hurting JLB much more than helping him. I don't mind the click track for the videos, lights or whatever, but keep the band playing live all they can and, also, save a little part of the show without the click track, to make room for some improvisation. DT was always great at that until 2010, why not now? I think they still can do it.
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I'm in Australia. I actually don't know how many times they have been out here. I saw them on the SC tour. I knew they came here on the Black Clouds tour but I missed that one. I've never been a big concert guy nevertheless.
Me neither, always been more the 'spinning vinyl in my own home with a good beer'-type, but Dream Theater became my every-tour-exception. And since I've missed so many years, I visit them every time I can.
Their aging to an age that good health is a blessing but surely not garanted. Neither for the band as for their wives. There could very well come a period that one of them needs to be home and they can't tour all over the world anymore. So I count each time I still am able to see them as a blessing overall.
The Napoli show was bonkers. There were about 10000 people in attendance, they played top notch with a lot of interaction with the crowd, and James was superb even if he cut off some high notes from the most difficult songs. In fact he did not do it uniformly, he nailed Pull me under to the wall while CIAW was a bit underwhelming in the middle part which is very high. Overall he knocked it out of the park. I will try to post some videos tomorrow.
Now that's brilliant to read! Looking forward to your video's...
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The Napoli show was bonkers. There were about 10000 people in attendance, they played top notch with a lot of interaction with the crowd, and James was superb even if he cut off some high notes from the most difficult songs. In fact he did not do it uniformly, he nailed Pull me under to the wall while CIAW was a bit underwhelming in the middle part which is very high. Overall he knocked it out of the park. I will try to post some videos tomorrow.
I am definitely interested in your videos then as that's a big statement.
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The Napoli show was bonkers. There were about 10000 people in attendance, they played top notch with a lot of interaction with the crowd, and James was superb even if he cut off some high notes from the most difficult songs. In fact he did not do it uniformly, he nailed Pull me under to the wall while CIAW was a bit underwhelming in the middle part which is very high. Overall he knocked it out of the park. I will try to post some videos tomorrow.
Although i understand your post concert excitement, i have to say the attandance must be a bit inaccurate as the Palapartenope can hold up to 6,5k people, and from what i could see until yesterday afternoon there were a couple of hundreds still unsold.
But that's great to hear you had a great experience!
SDOIT final section https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgGJmFozOLg - i totally understand James saving his voice, as this is going to be a 3 days in row run for them in Italy.
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It's John Myung's birthday today! Hopefully someone brings out a cake tonight during the show and we get a video of it tomorrow. :tup
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Awesome. Then we can bitch about James singing Happy Birthday. ;D
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I bet the backing track will do all the heavy lifting.
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Also, brace yourselves for The Count of Tuscany being played.... in Tuscany :metal
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Also, brace yourselves for The Count of Tuscany being played.... in Tuscany :metal
Count on it.
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Also, brace yourselves for The Count of Tuscany being played.... in Tuscany :metal
Count on it.
That was no accident.
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https://youtu.be/kv7GWuK_amM?t=442
Once again at Italy concert James is out of DT's high standards. Shame. :biggrin:
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https://youtu.be/kv7GWuK_amM?t=442
Once again at Italy concert James is out of DT's high standards. Shame. :biggrin:
Poor Eric's gonna need healing waters to bury all his pain :rollin
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On a another (drummer) note, I absolutely LOVE this Mangini drum setup. Hope he sticks with it.
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Gotta give credit for DT for swapping out About to Crash with About to Crash (Reprise) in the same setlist spot for the subsequent leg. Very clever. I wonder if that was pre-planned or if it came about as they pondered how to mix it up for the European dates.
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Most likely the second option.
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https://youtu.be/kv7GWuK_amM?t=442
Once again at Italy concert James is out of DT's high standards. Shame. :biggrin:
That was absolute hilarious :lol :lol
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Gotta give credit for DT for swapping out About to Crash with About to Crash (Reprise) in the same setlist spot for the subsequent leg. Very clever. I wonder if that was pre-planned or if it came about as they pondered how to mix it up for the European dates.
I really liked the way they connected ATC with TMOLS for the first tour legs, but I think the 3 SDOIT tracks they're doing now work better with the audience than Ministry.
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The only thing I'm going to bitch about is how much I prefer this setlist over last tour show I attended :P but at least I got The Ministry
When it comes to James, I think the band could accommodate him with a bit easier setlist. For example, why PMU? To be honest, he always struggled with I&W but killed on songs from 6DOIT, Octavarium etc.
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The only thing I'm going to bitch about is how much I prefer this setlist over last tour show I attended :P but at least I got The Ministry
When it comes to James, I think the band could accommodate him with a bit easier setlist. For example, why PMU? To be honest, he always struggled with I&W but killed on songs from 6DOIT, Octavarium etc.
That's the point I've been trying to make Tomi. The band simply aren't helping James here with song selections.
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Although I really follow what you’re saying, it could also be the other way around. It could very well be that the band which to accommodate him more, but that LaBrie refused an easier setlist. He obviously got an ego on the plate here and maybe he is not ready to accept the aging of his voice.
I think it is LaBrie himself, who has been hard on LaBrie.
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To be fair, James seems to sound much better at the latter dates (from what i've checked on YT)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkzRHsY8w4s&ab_channel=DusanJanotak
BITS from Bratislava
I love how James alters "re-new my life..." vocal section. Overall sound good to me and better than 2022 tour.
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I don't think the band is selecting songs to accommodate JLB. I doubt he's asking for that either. Given the sensitive nature of the topic, I think it's avoided entirely within the band. Maybe there's a group discussion about what songs should make up a setlist and everyone is asked if it works. I don't think JLB says or is asked if a song is do-able.
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I don't think the band is selecting songs to accommodate JLB. I doubt he's asking for that either. Given the sensitive nature of the topic, I think it's avoided entirely within the band. Maybe there's a group discussion about what songs should make up a setlist and everyone is asked if it works. I don't think JLB says or is asked if a song is do-able.
I’m pretty sure when they have been together for 30+ years, they can have these discussions. There is probably a shortlist of songs that are never gonna happen because of JLB’s capabilities. And that isn’t a diss at him, that is JP being respectful to him. I’m sure everything is ran by him and he gives it a thumbs up. And probably knows it won’t be perfect every night but he goes in trying his best to give the fans a great show. All of this despite the fact that fans on this site and elsewhere will tear the shit out of him no matter what he does.
God bless him for still going out every night and putting his heart and soul into this music.
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They down tuned IAW a half step for this very reason, so they clearly have some sort of talks about that and there's nothing wrong with it.
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I don't think the band is selecting songs to accommodate JLB. I doubt he's asking for that either. Given the sensitive nature of the topic, I think it's avoided entirely within the band. Maybe there's a group discussion about what songs should make up a setlist and everyone is asked if it works. I don't think JLB says or is asked if a song is do-able.
I’m pretty sure when they have been together for 30+ years, they can have these discussions. There is probably a shortlist of songs that are never gonna happen because of JLB’s capabilities. And that isn’t a diss at him, that is JP being respectful to him. I’m sure everything is ran by him and he gives it a thumbs up. And probably knows it won’t be perfect every night but he goes in trying his best to give the fans a great show. All of this despite the fact that fans on this site and elsewhere will tear the shit out of him no matter what he does.
God bless him for still going out every night and putting his heart and soul into this music.
Being friends for 30 years can just as easily complicate such a discussion.
I am not saying they don't talk about the setlist. Obviously they do. I just doubt there is any avoidance of songs because he allegedly just can't sing them. The only way I could see that is if JLB proactively raised his hand and said he can't do it - also don't think he would say that - but then why wouldn't they just change the tuning like they do with PMU? It's one thing to change tuning a half step on guitar or talk about placement of songs within the set list-- and another thing entirely to preclude songs from the band's rotation.
I don't have any insight into their discussions so I am only speculating, but I highly doubt JP is asking him 'can you sing this anymore?'
What songs do you think are being avoided or should be? The ones that are going to stretch his range are probably fan favorites and cannot be permanently removed from the rotation even if they are a struggle live.
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I don't think the band is selecting songs to accommodate JLB. I doubt he's asking for that either. Given the sensitive nature of the topic, I think it's avoided entirely within the band. Maybe there's a group discussion about what songs should make up a setlist and everyone is asked if it works. I don't think JLB says or is asked if a song is do-able.
I’m pretty sure when they have been together for 30+ years, they can have these discussions. There is probably a shortlist of songs that are never gonna happen because of JLB’s capabilities. And that isn’t a diss at him, that is JP being respectful to him. I’m sure everything is ran by him and he gives it a thumbs up. And probably knows it won’t be perfect every night but he goes in trying his best to give the fans a great show. All of this despite the fact that fans on this site and elsewhere will tear the shit out of him no matter what he does.
God bless him for still going out every night and putting his heart and soul into this music.
Possibly, but then why are they still playing PMU? I know because it's their 'hit', but still.
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I don't think the band is selecting songs to accommodate JLB. I doubt he's asking for that either. Given the sensitive nature of the topic, I think it's avoided entirely within the band. Maybe there's a group discussion about what songs should make up a setlist and everyone is asked if it works. I don't think JLB says or is asked if a song is do-able.
I’m pretty sure when they have been together for 30+ years, they can have these discussions. There is probably a shortlist of songs that are never gonna happen because of JLB’s capabilities. And that isn’t a diss at him, that is JP being respectful to him. I’m sure everything is ran by him and he gives it a thumbs up. And probably knows it won’t be perfect every night but he goes in trying his best to give the fans a great show. All of this despite the fact that fans on this site and elsewhere will tear the shit out of him no matter what he does.
God bless him for still going out every night and putting his heart and soul into this music.
Possibly, but then why are they still playing PMU? I know because it's their 'hit', but still.
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They need both crowd pleaser and globally known hit in the setlist and that means PMU or possibly Another Day. PMU is quite easier than Another Day. So... Maybe The Mirror/Lie duo may make it better but hard on James, especially The Mirror.
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Regardless of the status of PMU, no one is going to see DT for the hits. I would think the audiences seeing the band on the most part wouldn't care if it wasn't played anymore. Even something like a TSCO could even replace it as the big money song IMO.
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Regardless of the status of PMU, no one is going to see DT for the hits. I would think the audiences seeing the band on the most part wouldn't care if it wasn't played anymore. Even something like a TSCO could even replace it as the big money song IMO.
Don't be so sure :lol
My buddy and I are going to the London show next month, and he seems to be "disappointed" when I showed him the setlist. :lol He went something like, they don't even play some of the toughest songs or the "best" songs from the past and such. He even went on to say this will be his final DT show ever. :\ I didn't say much to him, but he is clearly still stuck in the past.
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Regardless of the status of PMU, no one is going to see DT for the hits. I would think the audiences seeing the band on the most part wouldn't care if it wasn't played anymore. Even something like a TSCO could even replace it as the big money song IMO.
Every show I’ve been to when they’ve played PMU, the crowd goes nuts. Just saying.
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Regardless of the status of PMU, no one is going to see DT for the hits. I would think the audiences seeing the band on the most part wouldn't care if it wasn't played anymore. Even something like a TSCO could even replace it as the big money song IMO.
I'm with you here.
I can't (and won't) speak for anyone else, but I NEVER need to hear "Pull Me Under" again. Frankly, when I heard the song on the radio back in ninety whatever, it did nothing for me (which is why I didn't really gravitate toward the band until Awake).
I mean, it's a fine tune, but I'm good.
On a side note, I wish to god that JLB would start singing the second verse ("watch the sparrow falling...") an octave lower. That whole section could sound awesome in a lower register, and I'd rather hear him confidently get through what is an admittedly cluttered lyrical section than struggle to spit out all those vowels at the top of his range.
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If DT wants to include PMU in more sets, I'm fine with it. It is not my favorite DT song, but I think we should still be grateful for everything else DT does in their sets.
There are plenty of bands that have been around as long as DT who play setlists filled ONLY with "hits" and nostalgia trips, where you're lucky to hear a token new song or two.
I'm personally more concerned that their sets have been shorter over the last few years. But if that is what it takes to keep DT playing for years to come, I guess I can handle a show that is 'only' 2 hours long.
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There are plenty of bands that have been around as long as DT who play setlists filled ONLY with "hits" and nostalgia trips, where you're lucky to hear a token new song or two.
Journey, Foreigner, REO Speedwagon are big offenders of this. :facepalm:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkzRHsY8w4s&ab_channel=DusanJanotak
BITS from Bratislava
That's me on the left bobbing my head at 0:26. This was my eight Dream Theater show and my first time being front row center. I absolutely loved it. The band was on fire, the set was very well balanced, and even the newer songs that I wasn't crazy about initially went over well during the show. I think I enjoyed the stuff from Six degrees the most. Also, the moment Pull me under started, the crowd went berserk. People still want to hear it.
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They need both crowd pleaser and globally known hit in the setlist and that means PMU or possibly Another Day. PMU is quite easier than Another Day. So... Maybe The Mirror/Lie duo may make it better but hard on James, especially The Mirror.
What do we think about Learning to Live? It's not exactly a hit single but it's a DT classic alongside the likes of Metropolis Pt. 1. I'd say it's one of the less challenging songs from IaW and he was able to do the F# pretty reliably in 2017 from what I've seen. I can see it being a bit out of reach for him 6 years later though. I could also see Hollow Years with the epic Budokan guitar solo being a nice crowd pleaser, although most casual fans probably ignore FII.
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They need both crowd pleaser and globally known hit in the setlist and that means PMU or possibly Another Day. PMU is quite easier than Another Day. So... Maybe The Mirror/Lie duo may make it better but hard on James, especially The Mirror.
What do we think about Learning to Live? It's not exactly a hit single but it's a DT classic alongside the likes of Metropolis Pt. 1. I'd say it's one of the less challenging songs from IaW and he was able to do the F# pretty reliably in 2017 from what I've seen. I can see it being a bit out of reach for him 6 years later though. I could also see Hollow Years with the epic Budokan guitar solo being a nice crowd pleaser, although most casual fans probably ignore FII.
LTL is probably my #2 DT song. The F# section is very easy to modify (and, frankly, he's been doing that since the I&W tour). Otherwise, it's not too tough of a song.
I'd love to see Hollow Years, but I have zero interest in extended guitar solos.
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Regardless of the status of PMU, no one is going to see DT for the hits. I would think the audiences seeing the band on the most part wouldn't care if it wasn't played anymore. Even something like a TSCO could even replace it as the big money song IMO.
"hits" is an odd thing to use to describe DT. I'd say they only have A hit and that is PMU. But considering the turn outs of the I&W and Scenes tours, people clearly want to see the "classics". It's no surprise either, since that's basically the general fan base of every band. DT's fan base is much more open than most to see new and less played songs, but at the end of the day, there's always going to be a group of people, maybe even a large group, that are there for the "hits" or "classics".
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When you see Billy Joel, you expect to see Piano Man. When you see Bon Jovi, Living on a Prayer is a given. A Tom Petty show wouldn't have been complete without Free Falling.
I don't think DT has a track like that, and I think that's perfectly fine. There are a few early songs that might work as general crowd pleasers, but I don't think there's any song in particular that leaves the audience bummed or wanting if not played.
That being said, DT could play Metropolis ever time I see them and I wouldn't complain.
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When you see Billy Joel, you expect to see Piano Man. When you see Bon Jovi, Living on a Prayer is a given. A Tom Petty show wouldn't have been complete without Free Falling.
I don't think DT has a track like that, and I think that's perfectly fine. There are a few early songs that might work as general crowd pleasers, but I don't think there's any song in particular that leaves the audience bummed or wanting if not played.
That being said, DT could play Metropolis ever time I see them and I wouldn't complain.
This kind of sums up what I was meaning pretty well.
Marc's post above makes good points too however.
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I think we should all be able to agree that playing 3-4 songs at every show from The Astonishing would keep both the casual fans and diehards more than happy. :coolio :coolio
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:lol
When you see Billy Joel, you expect to see Piano Man. When you see Bon Jovi, Living on a Prayer is a given. A Tom Petty show wouldn't have been complete without Free Falling.
I don't think DT has a track like that, and I think that's perfectly fine. There are a few early songs that might work as general crowd pleasers, but I don't think there's any song in particular that leaves the audience bummed or wanting if not played.
That being said, DT could play Metropolis ever time I see them and I wouldn't complain.
This kind of sums up what I was meaning pretty well.
Marc's post above makes good points too however.
I've just gone to enough concerts to very easily say there's always a group, and the older the band the larger the group, of people who just want to hear the hits or classics. DT is no different.
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Fair call mate. I definitely find that a tad surprising.
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Fair call mate. I definitely find that a tad surprising.
Why? I know us here often want the deep cuts, but this forum represents just a small fraction of the fan base. Most of the fan bases of DT and any other band are casual listeners.
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Fair call mate. I definitely find that a tad surprising.
Why? I know us here often want the deep cuts, but this forum represents just a small fraction of the fan base. Most of the fan bases of DT and any other band are casual listeners.
Agreed. For every one of us diehards who wants to hear Voices and The Glass Prison, there are 10 casual fans who want to hear You Not Me and Raw Dog.
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You are confused, I want to hear Raw Dog :lol
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Actually, JLB seems to do a good job at the F# moment everyone is waiting for on LTL.
Nothing from I&W will ever be permanently removed from the setlist and there is no alleged list of songs that are precluded solely because of performer issues. The only songs we should expect never to see live are Best of Times and Never Enough (never again), as they were personal statements of a member who is no longer in the band.
No reason to doubt that JLB has full confidence in his abilities to perform all of DT's catalogue. I fully expect on the next tour to hear the Mirror, LTL, PMU and whatever else the band feels like playing/is ripe to bring out.
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You are confused, I want to hear Raw Dog :lol
I was kind of hoping to get Raw Dog at the JP shows.
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You are confused, I want to hear Raw Dog :lol
I was kind of hoping to get Raw Dog at the JP shows.
I would have enjoyed it
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkzRHsY8w4s&ab_channel=DusanJanotak
BITS from Bratislava
That's me on the left bobbing my head at 0:26. This was my eight Dream Theater show and my first time being front row center. I absolutely loved it. The band was on fire, the set was very well balanced, and even the newer songs that I wasn't crazy about initially went over well during the show. I think I enjoyed the stuff from Six degrees the most. Also, the moment Pull me under started, the crowd went berserk. People still want to hear it.
Nothing better than front row center at a DT show. Always worth it. Glad you had a great time.
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Fair call mate. I definitely find that a tad surprising.
Why? I know us here often want the deep cuts, but this forum represents just a small fraction of the fan base. Most of the fan bases of DT and any other band are casual listeners.
Fair enough mate. I guess Im looking a bit pigeon holed on here. Also here in Australia it would probably be different. More the majority would be die hard fans.....I would think. So yeah, I probably have some tunnel vision here.
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Fair call mate. I definitely find that a tad surprising.
Why? I know us here often want the deep cuts, but this forum represents just a small fraction of the fan base. Most of the fan bases of DT and any other band are casual listeners.
Agreed. For every one of us diehards who wants to hear Voices and The Glass Prison, there are 10 casual fans who want to hear You Not Me and Raw Dog.
No there aren't.
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Denmark concert is cancelled.
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Denmark concert is cancelled.
That is so odd a date is cancelled in the middle of a tour. Any idea what happened?
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Denmark concert is cancelled.
That is so odd a date is cancelled in the middle of a tour. Any idea what happened?
Maybe they weren't selling well enough? Such a bummer for fans expecting it :-\
EDIT: Apparently, the venue canceled the show.
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Definitely a bummer. I would expect to see that happen in a smaller city, but maybe the venue they were booked in was too large?
On a completely different note, I know that Arion didn't open for DT in Tel Aviv - anybody know who did open?
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Answering the Call and Sleeping Giant. Sick.
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Barcelona show was uploaded on YT by somebody. Absolutely frickin' EPIC show! The most energy I've seen from the band in a long time. Mangini is on fire. Bravo DT! Wow. Amazing setlist too. Killer.
I wish this had been recorded and offered for sale. I would buy in a heartbeat.
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Barcelona show was uploaded on YT by somebody. Absolutely frickin' EPIC show! The most energy I've seen from the band in a long time. Mangini is on fire. Bravo DT! Wow. Amazing setlist too. Killer.
I wish this had been recorded and offered for sale. I would buy in a heartbeat.
Yeah, there's a couple of different uploads of this, and I couldn't agree more.
The band is clearly hitting a groove and I'm definitely hoping they record something for this tour.
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jordan did say in a recent interview that the band is looking into recording a show...
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jordan did say in a recent interview that the band is looking into recording a show...
Do it in London! I got tickets to that show :biggrin:
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jordan did say in a recent interview that the band is looking into recording a show...
Sounds promising. Did he mention whether it will be a Bluray/DVD or just an audio recording for the LNFA?
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Sounds promising. Did he mention whether it will be a Bluray/DVD or just an audio recording for the LNFA?
Or an official live record, like the beautiful vinyl box from Distant Memories. Which I hope the most.
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Is it possible they'll record a DVD for Stockholm date?
https://fb.watch/irnW8JIJoP/
It seems that video is down. It was sent by offical DT fb account. James was in the video and said that, Stockholm concert has a big surprise and will be a memorable evening.
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it sounded more like something for the end of the tour the way he talked about it
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jordan did say in a recent interview that the band is looking into recording a show...
Sounds promising. Did he mention whether it will be a Bluray/DVD or just an audio recording for the LNFA?
They already record audio of every show, so if he mentioned something like that, I would imagine he's referring to a video recording.
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it sounded more like something for the end of the tour the way he talked about it
I may need my memory refreshed, but haven't they recorded a lot of shows at the end of the tour?
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jordan did say in a recent interview that the band is looking into recording a show...
Sounds promising. Did he mention whether it will be a Bluray/DVD or just an audio recording for the LNFA?
They already record audio of every show, so if he mentioned something like that, I would imagine he's referring to a video recording.
I was just wondering because in 2020 when they shot Distant Memories in London, they announced months in advance on their social media that this show was going to be filmed. So it surprised me that it was only "secretly" mentioned in an interview this time.
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I don't think they've decided if/when yet. If they want to record a show, it'll most likely happen during the upcoming(?) US tour leg. And if that happens, I really hope they do the two night thing they did for Luna Park and Distant Memories, so we can have all the new songs they played during this tour (all the songs from A View + the SDOIT tracks and TMOLS).
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Jordan just posted a thing on FB about how its the 20 year anniversary for 6Degrees and a little clip of him recording The Glass Prision....Could they possibly add more of 6 Degrees to a recorded show??
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Jordan just posted a thing on FB about how its the 20 year anniversary for 6Degrees and a little clip of him recording The Glass Prision....Could they possibly add more of 6 Degrees to a recorded show??
I hope they barely touch disc 2 at all if so. We've already got it in its entirety on SCORE.
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Jordan just posted a thing on FB about how its the 20 year anniversary for 6Degrees and a little clip of him recording The Glass Prision....Could they possibly add more of 6 Degrees to a recorded show??
I hope they barely touch disc 2 at all if so. We've already got it in its entirety on SCORE.
I agree with you, but disc 2 has basically been played on this tour cycle so it seems inevitable that it would be on a live show recording at this point. I really want The Glass Prison and Blind Faith personally. Wayyyy more than anything on disc 2.
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I don't think they've decided if/when yet. If they want to record a show, it'll most likely happen during the upcoming(?) US tour leg.
My bad. I thought all along Jordan had referred to the European leg of the tour although he most likely said a show of the 2023 tour will be recorded at some point. That makes sense.
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Jordan just posted a thing on FB about how its the 20 year anniversary for 6Degrees and a little clip of him recording The Glass Prision....Could they possibly add more of 6 Degrees to a recorded show??
I hope they barely touch disc 2 at all if so. We've already got it in its entirety on SCORE.
I agree with you, but disc 2 has basically been played on this tour cycle so it seems inevitable that it would be on a live show recording at this point. I really want The Glass Prison and Blind Faith personally. Wayyyy more than anything on disc 2.
+1 on Blind Faith. I'd love an extended instrumental bit with Jordan going nuts on the piano section.
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Considering the band's left active years and James' voice they need to play fan's classics like The Glass Prison and Blind Faith* for a DVD. It's even suspicious now that James can perform these songs properly but I hope it's not late but there is no much time left. Questionable that why DT hasn't filmed these songs for a offical live DVD yet.
*Recorded for CiM but it's a bad quality, imo.
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Considering the band's left active years and James' voice they need to play fan's classics like The Glass Prison and Blind Faith* for a DVD. It's even suspicious now that James can perform these songs properly but I hope it's not late but there is no much time left. Questionable that why DT hasn't filmed these songs for a offical live DVD yet.
*Recorded for CiM but it's a bad quality, imo.
TGP is on a different DVD too for the Gigantour. I agree overall though, it's not on a DT live album where it should be.
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Considering the band's left active years and James' voice they need to play fan's classics like The Glass Prison and Blind Faith* for a DVD. It's even suspicious now that James can perform these songs properly but I hope it's not late but there is no much time left. Questionable that why DT hasn't filmed these songs for a offical live DVD yet.
*Recorded for CiM but it's a bad quality, imo.
TGP is on a different DVD too for the Gigantour. I agree overall though, it's not on a DT live album where it should be.
The closest thing is actually the Bucharest show, which I'm patiently waiting to see rereleased through the LNFA.
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Considering the band's left active years and James' voice they need to play fan's classics like The Glass Prison and Blind Faith* for a DVD. It's even suspicious now that James can perform these songs properly but I hope it's not late but there is no much time left. Questionable that why DT hasn't filmed these songs for a offical live DVD yet.
*Recorded for CiM but it's a bad quality, imo.
TGP is on a different DVD too for the Gigantour. I agree overall though, it's not on a DT live album where it should be.
The closest thing is actually the Bucharest show, which I'm patiently waiting to see rereleased through the LNFA.
I have the DVD but forgot about it. I also don't count that either, though. It needs the full professional DT release. It's truly a song that deserves it.
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I would be more than over the moon if they play The Glass Prison and record it somewhere on this journey. It's one of the very best songs ever. Period.
It's only a few weeks left for their gig in Tilburg, 013, where I will be. I mostly am looking forward to Answering the Call and The Count, again.
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I would be more than over the moon if they play The Glass Prison and record it somewhere on this journey. It's one of the very best songs ever. Period.
It's only a few weeks left for their gig in Tilburg, 013, where I will be. I mostly am looking forward to Answering the Call and The Count, again.
Seeing The Count live many times will never be too many. What a great live song!
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013, Tilburg is a possible location for filming as well. Many shows have been recorded there and The Netherlands are a good market for DT.
The reason why there is no proper live version of The Glass Prison? My guess is that it's one of the hardest songs to play, especially with those guitar apeggio's at the beginning. Petrucci has mentioned that part as very difficult for him to play, because Rudess wrote them on keyboard (look at that making of video: Rudess' fingers are widely spread, almost alien like!). And Petrucci, being a perfectionist, probably is not too keen to have that song filmed live.
And didn't Myung (jokingly) fall from his chair after recording TGP? If I remember correctly, that was also part of the making of TGP as part of those making of movies for SDOIT - which I really liked (especially seeing Rudess playing a great keyboard part in the making of Misunderstood, but I've never heard those brutal strings back in the final mix, sadly enough...).
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Is there any chance JP could modify that guitar section of TGP live? I imagine he wouldn't want to play anything other than the studio version, but if changing one section is the difference between the fans hearing this song again or not, I truly hope he considers it.
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I guess he can do that, but with enough practice I think he should be able to play the original arpeggio's as well, as long as they don't speed up from the original tempo (a thing which Portnoy sometimes seemed to do).
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I guess he can do that, but with enough practice I think he should be able to play the original arpeggio's as well, as long as they don't speed up from the original tempo (a thing which Portnoy sometimes seemed to do).
There is no danger of that.
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The only songs we should expect never to see live are Best of Times and Never Enough (never again), as they were personal statements of a member who is no longer in the band.
Never Enough is highly likely to make a return. They like playing it live, and have never had any qualms with Never Enough.
I've never asked them about their feelings about playing TBOT, but I could see that that one might not be one they would ever feel like doing. Mike Portnoy was more vocal about not playing a couple of songs that were very personal to certain members, Space Dye Vest being the most obvious example. But the other members have not ever voiced any such thing. JP and James have disfavored certain songs that they have felt didn't go over well live, but never because they are "too personal." But I could see that James might feel a little weird singing TBOT without MP being in the band.
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I would think the most unlikely songs (based on lyrics) would be TBOT and HYF, although Never Enough hasn't been played since the SC tour cycle.
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James once said in an interview he just doesn't feel right singing New Millenium live, but other than that I don't think there's any song they've banned for good form performing live. However, I find funny/interesting that on at least two different occasions Mike M has talked about asking the other guys to add I Walk Beside You to the set and it just hasn't happened. I guess that one might be a bit too tricky to pull off vocals-wise since there's a key change and it gets to a very high singing register.
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Pretty sure also The Great Debate is not coming back, since i think JP has said that it didn't get a very warm reaction live.
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I have even money on Don't Look Past Me never being played again.
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James once said in an interview he just doesn't feel right singing New Millenium live, but other than that I don't think there's any song they've banned for good form performing live. However, I find funny/interesting that on at least two different occasions Mike M has talked about asking the other guys to add I Walk Beside You to the set and it just hasn't happened. I guess that one might be a bit too tricky to pull off vocals-wise since there's a key change and it gets to a very high singing register.
Very curious why James doesn't feel right about NM. I'd love to see that (or anything from FII really) in a live context, personally
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James once said in an interview he just doesn't feel right singing New Millenium live, but other than that I don't think there's any song they've banned for good form performing live. However, I find funny/interesting that on at least two different occasions Mike M has talked about asking the other guys to add I Walk Beside You to the set and it just hasn't happened. I guess that one might be a bit too tricky to pull off vocals-wise since there's a key change and it gets to a very high singing register.
Very curious why James doesn't feel right about NM. I'd love to see that (or anything from FII really) in a live context, personally
Here's the actual quote from the interview:
Here’s a question that a fan asked me to bring up: What are your favorite and least favorite songs to perform live?
Uuuuuh… Least favorite… I would say, probably… I don’t know… New Millennium. That song, I just didn’t feel it. There were some cool moments in it, I just didn’t… whenever we performed it, I didn’t feel it. The favorite song for me is… I love Scarred, I love performing that live. And… well, Octavarium, that whole frickin’ thing… Ministry of Lost Souls and that… I don’t know… Octavarium in itself, this song, I loved performing. I thought it was an amazing song. It’s kinda hard. That’s a hard question to answer cause there’s so many moments that I know… cause 99 percent of the songs, I love singing.
Taken from: https://dreamtheater.club/blog/2011/07/11/resurfacing-an-interview-with-james-labrie/
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Considering the band's left active years and James' voice they need to play fan's classics like The Glass Prison and Blind Faith* for a DVD. It's even suspicious now that James can perform these songs properly but I hope it's not late but there is no much time left. Questionable that why DT hasn't filmed these songs for a offical live DVD yet.
*Recorded for CiM but it's a bad quality, imo.
TGP is on a different DVD too for the Gigantour. I agree overall though, it's not on a DT live album where it should be.
The closest thing is actually the Bucharest show, which I'm patiently waiting to see rereleased through the LNFA.
Yeah, this version is amazing.
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James once said in an interview he just doesn't feel right singing New Millenium live, but other than that I don't think there's any song they've banned for good form performing live. However, I find funny/interesting that on at least two different occasions Mike M has talked about asking the other guys to add I Walk Beside You to the set and it just hasn't happened. I guess that one might be a bit too tricky to pull off vocals-wise since there's a key change and it gets to a very high singing register.
Very curious why James doesn't feel right about NM. I'd love to see that (or anything from FII really) in a live context, personally
Here's the actual quote from the interview:
Here’s a question that a fan asked me to bring up: What are your favorite and least favorite songs to perform live?
Uuuuuh… Least favorite… I would say, probably… I don’t know… New Millennium. That song, I just didn’t feel it. There were some cool moments in it, I just didn’t… whenever we performed it, I didn’t feel it. The favorite song for me is… I love Scarred, I love performing that live. And… well, Octavarium, that whole frickin’ thing… Ministry of Lost Souls and that… I don’t know… Octavarium in itself, this song, I loved performing. I thought it was an amazing song. It’s kinda hard. That’s a hard question to answer cause there’s so many moments that I know… cause 99 percent of the songs, I love singing.
Taken from: https://dreamtheater.club/blog/2011/07/11/resurfacing-an-interview-with-james-labrie/
If James loves singing Octavarium, then why the hell hasn’t it come back yet? A fan favorite song that your singer loves performing should be an obvious choice for a setlist.
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James once said in an interview he just doesn't feel right singing New Millenium live, but other than that I don't think there's any song they've banned for good form performing live. However, I find funny/interesting that on at least two different occasions Mike M has talked about asking the other guys to add I Walk Beside You to the set and it just hasn't happened. I guess that one might be a bit too tricky to pull off vocals-wise since there's a key change and it gets to a very high singing register.
Very curious why James doesn't feel right about NM. I'd love to see that (or anything from FII really) in a live context, personally
Here's the actual quote from the interview:
Here’s a question that a fan asked me to bring up: What are your favorite and least favorite songs to perform live?
Uuuuuh… Least favorite… I would say, probably… I don’t know… New Millennium. That song, I just didn’t feel it. There were some cool moments in it, I just didn’t… whenever we performed it, I didn’t feel it. The favorite song for me is… I love Scarred, I love performing that live. And… well, Octavarium, that whole frickin’ thing… Ministry of Lost Souls and that… I don’t know… Octavarium in itself, this song, I loved performing. I thought it was an amazing song. It’s kinda hard. That’s a hard question to answer cause there’s so many moments that I know… cause 99 percent of the songs, I love singing.
Taken from: https://dreamtheater.club/blog/2011/07/11/resurfacing-an-interview-with-james-labrie/
Interesting. This does make me wonder if DT have some sort of democratic process for working out their setlist. Running on from what The Count said, that might be why 8VM hasn't been performed again since. I would have assumed they would gravitate toward songs that JLB finds easier or more pleasant to sing, but maybe someone isn't as much of a fan of the title track.
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I will be perfectly happy never having to worry about hearing TGD, NM and DLPM. All of those are bottom 10 DT songs. :biggrin:
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I wonder about Prophets of War? It almost feels too of-an-era to play now.
That said, I truly don't believe any DT song is absolutely off limits. Even ones JP has voiced concerns about in the past.
I wouldn't be surprised if we even get some kind of medley one day - if they don't want to play all of TBOT, a medley would at least give them an opportunity to jump into that awesome guitar solo.
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I'm just glad I got to see them on the SDOIT tour. Opening the show with TGP was simply amazing, crowd went completely bonkers right from the start. So, yeah, would be cool to have the song on an official DVD.
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I wonder about Prophets of War? It almost feels too of-an-era to play now.
To me, it feels too not-very-good to play now.
That said, I truly don't believe any DT song is absolutely off limits. Even ones JP has voiced concerns about in the past.
I don't know. I suggested Eve to him and he literally laughed. I think that one has gone the way of the dodo.
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Tonight's Finland concert is cancelled due to safety reasons.
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Tonight's Finland concert is cancelled due to safety reasons.
Can confirm, I heard through the grapevine that the stage was deemed unsafe.
Anyway, long time no post! I went to see them here in Tampere last night after a 6-year break, because for once they were coming to my hometown. JLB sounded a little pitchy and out of breath a lot of the time, and PMU and Caught in a Web were pretty brutal vocally. The sound was also a little rough, though slightly better than when I saw Ghost at the same arena last year. Transcending Time is the only song off the latest album that really resonates with me, so it was a bummer that it wasn't played, but for the most part the setlist was pretty solid and I enjoyed getting to hear 6:00 and the Six Degrees sections live, so the overall experience was more on the positive side. The Count was a great ending and James nailed it, making it my highlight of the night.
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I just snapped too, that JLB is doing the ending vocals for TCOT now since there are no backing vocals. That makes me happy and it's the main concern I had about JLB just letting the backing vocals do all the work.
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So are there really NO backing tracks at all this leg? Or are they just lower in the mix?
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i've watched plenty videos from all venues they did so far, and yes, no backingvocals whatsoever from a tape. Just Petrucci doing his best in certain sections. there's the gong for 6doit by Jordan, but i don't think that counts because MM does hit a gong there ^^
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So are there really NO backing tracks at all this leg? Or are they just lower in the mix?
AFAIK, no taped backing vocals at all. :)
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bring on the video recording :metal
It should be done every tour.
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Nevermind, scratch what I said. JLB still doesn't sing the ending. But I also love it because when everyone sings it's sounds amazing. I had hoped others would've sang along at the shows I saw it at, but couldn't notice.
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Wow, I need to watch some of these videos. I saw them last leg with the backing tracks. They seemed to be a pretty big part of that show. I'd really love to see them without all the extra production.
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i just noticed they have a night off before the day i see them, which would otherwise have been the 3rd night in a row. i was kinda worried about james about that but now it seems much better :-)
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If James is teasing something cool for the Stockholm show... I doubt it will happen, but it would be the ultimate string of epics ever if they expanded the Six Degrees selection to include the entirety of disc two.
Wishful thinking, but still!
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i've watched plenty videos from all venues they did so far, and yes, no backingvocals whatsoever from a tape. Just Petrucci doing his best in certain sections.
John Petrucci actually sounds pretty good singing harmonies with James and has a pleasant tone. I like it much better than the backing tracks.
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If James is teasing something cool for the Stockholm show... I doubt it will happen, but it would be the ultimate string of epics ever if they expanded the Six Degrees selection to include the entirety of disc two.
Wishful thinking, but still!
where is he teasing what?
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where is he teasing what?
I think it is a reference to
Is it possible they'll record a DVD for Stockholm date?
https://fb.watch/irnW8JIJoP/
It seems that video is down. It was sent by offical DT fb account. James was in the video and said that, Stockholm concert has a big surprise and will be a memorable evening.
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ah tnx i missed that
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where is he teasing what?
I think it is a reference to
Is it possible they'll record a DVD for Stockholm date?
https://fb.watch/irnW8JIJoP/
It seems that video is down. It was sent by offical DT fb account. James was in the video and said that, Stockholm concert has a big surprise and will be a memorable evening.
I don't hear anything that sounds like an announcement. Sounds typical of what James would say promoting a show.
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I don't hear anything about a big surprice there....
Oh well. I will see on monday. Got a ticket for the golden circle so should be able to get close to the stage.
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They’ve just announced Japanese dates. Please god tell me this means Australian dates are on their way.
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Here's a nice, wholesome video - a bit of an on-stage birthday celebration for John Myung two weeks ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQEId2v-lw0
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On my way home after the concert in Stockholm.
It was just a normal concert. Same setlst, no cameras....
Good setlist but I can agree that LaBrie is not on top form. Some songs work better than others but on the whole a bit disappointing.
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On my way home after the concert in Stockholm.
It was just a normal concert. Same setlst, no cameras....
Good setlist but I can agree that LaBrie is not on top form. Some songs work better than others but on the whole a bit disappointing.
It's a shame to say it, but DT is getting more and more boring with each tour that goes by, I see the interest is decreasing more and more. Half-full venues. Maybe take a couple of years off from touring. But DT must make money like everyone else. Unfortunately, James is completely done. Low parts are usually good, but on the high notes it becomes uncomfortable to listen to. If DT is to base the setlist on James's voice going forward, it will only be songs alla Anna Lee
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On my way home after the concert in Stockholm.
It was just a normal concert. Same setlst, no cameras....
Good setlist but I can agree that LaBrie is not on top form. Some songs work better than others but on the whole a bit disappointing.
It's a shame to say it, but DT is getting more and more boring with each tour that goes by, I see the interest is decreasing more and more. Half-full venues. Maybe take a couple of years off from touring. But DT must make money like everyone else. Unfortunately, James is completely done. Low parts are usually good, but on the high notes it becomes uncomfortable to listen to. If DT is to base the setlist on James's voice going forward, it will only be songs alla Anna Lee
I'm not sure they've been getting more boring with each tour. Hell, the tour before this one was DoT and SFAM. The night I went to see that tour was absolutely packed and the show was incredible. I think a large part of it is simply that the touring economy is still bouncing back post-pandemic. Some people still don't feel confident in going to gigs, the budget won't be there quite as much, etc. Combine that with the fact the View tours haven't been "Evening with" and you've got effectively half the time to put in varied material. I think all things considered they're putting on the best show they can, and hopefully with some more anniversaries in the coming years we'll get some more interesting tours and setlists.
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Does anyone here think DT are done with Evening With tours? If I'm not mistaken, even the Distance Over Time tour was shorter than their usual Evening With sets.
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It's a shame to say it, but DT is getting more and more boring with each tour that goes by
Man, I don't know. There are a lot of words that can be used to describe DT, especially live, but "boring" does NOT come to mind.
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On my way home after the concert in Stockholm.
It was just a normal concert. Same setlst, no cameras....
Good setlist but I can agree that LaBrie is not on top form. Some songs work better than others but on the whole a bit disappointing.
It's a shame to say it, but DT is getting more and more boring with each tour that goes by, I see the interest is decreasing more and more. Half-full venues. Maybe take a couple of years off from touring. But DT must make money like everyone else. Unfortunately, James is completely done. Low parts are usually good, but on the high notes it becomes uncomfortable to listen to. If DT is to base the setlist on James's voice going forward, it will only be songs alla Anna Lee
I'm not sure they've been getting more boring with each tour. Hell, the tour before this one was DoT and SFAM. The night I went to see that tour was absolutely packed and the show was incredible. I think a large part of it is simply that the touring economy is still bouncing back post-pandemic. Some people still don't feel confident in going to gigs, the budget won't be there quite as much, etc. Combine that with the fact the View tours haven't been "Evening with" and you've got effectively half the time to put in varied material. I think all things considered they're putting on the best show they can, and hopefully with some more anniversaries in the coming years we'll get some more interesting tours and setlists.
Considering how hard it is to get tickets for big shows these days, I disagree with this completely. The touring economy is not the reason people aren't going to shows. It may be the reason bands aren't making money though. DT tours have been incredibly inconsistent the last 8 years or so. Usually the second leg has poor attendance and the first leg is much better.
Does anyone here think DT are done with Evening With tours? If I'm not mistaken, even the Distance Over Time tour was shorter than their usual Evening With sets.
It does seem their sets have gotten shorter and shorter over time. I feel like all this started around TA tour which was a shorter evening with format as well and then we saw poor crowds on the second leg of that tour.
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Went to the Stockholm show yesterday, and had a great time (as usual when watching DT)! Compared to the show in Partille last May, the energy was much better, both from the crowd and especially from James. In Partille, he seemed somewhat annoyed and didn't really appear as if he was having a great time (which is perfectly fine, everyone can have an off day, and from what I could tell behind me the crowd response wasn't very energetic). Yesterday, however, he seemed really energized from the start which was great to see! The vocals were fine by modern day DT standard as far as I could tell, but I haven't scrutinized any video recordings from the show (and don't really intend to).
One funny thing happened where he left the stage during AVFTTOTW, after the "I begin the blind ascent..." section, and forgot to come back for the "Like a blind man in a maze..." section, making JP the lead singer before JLB came running back to catch the last few before the instrumental section. You could clearly see the "nervous" looks from JP to the backstage area :lol
Another thing that stood out to me were how few guitars JP used during the show. Only 1 6-string and 2 7-strings as far as I could tell. Typically, my experience is that he regularly changes guitars, but I'm wondering if they're trying to reduce the logistic costs for the tour and only bring as many guitars as they really need? For example, during the last leg he used the 20th anniversary JP6 for 6:00, but now he just stuck to the same Majesty guitar used during TA preceding it. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but could this be one of the reasons for dropping ATM and ES from the set, seeing as that would add 4 more guitars to the freight for only 2 songs, given that each tuning needs a backup? I was a little bummed out that ES was one of the songs dropped, seeing as how that was the highlight of the Partille show for me, and the one song where the crowd (for once) really got into it. Other than that, I loved the set. Much prefer SG to IM, and ATC is more and more becoming my favorite song of the last album.
Looking forward to the next time DT passes through Stockholm, and I hope they stick to Annexet as a venue from now on. Both DT shows I've seen there (2014 & 2023) have been some of the best I've been to!
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Another thing that stood out to me were how few guitars JP used during the show. Only 1 6-string and 2 7-strings as far as I could tell. Typically, my experience is that he regularly changes guitars, but I'm wondering if they're trying to reduce the logistic costs for the tour and only bring as many guitars as they really need? For example, during the last leg he used the 20th anniversary JP6 for 6:00, but now he just stuck to the same Majesty guitar used during TA preceding it.
Interesting. I could definitely see cutting the number to reduce costs and keep things simple. But are you sure he only used 1 6-string? He often carries a few that have the same or similar colors/finishes, so it may look like the same guitar if you don't notice him changing over between songs. But I know he always has at least one backup for every guitar tuning/configuration. I think maybe he might have made a couple of guitar changes that you didn't notice because the changeovers happened quickly and discretely, and the guitars looked similar. But I could be wrong. I know that it seemed like he was making more guitar changes in the Along for the Ride tour than others I can recall, but it seems to have tapered off again since then (on DT tours and his solo tour), so maybe he is just sticking to a couple of main instruments for as long as possible without switching unless necessary now.
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Another thing that stood out to me were how few guitars JP used during the show. Only 1 6-string and 2 7-strings as far as I could tell. Typically, my experience is that he regularly changes guitars, but I'm wondering if they're trying to reduce the logistic costs for the tour and only bring as many guitars as they really need? For example, during the last leg he used the 20th anniversary JP6 for 6:00, but now he just stuck to the same Majesty guitar used during TA preceding it.
Interesting. I could definitely see cutting the number to reduce costs and keep things simple. But are you sure he only used 1 6-string? He often carries a few that have the same or similar colors/finishes, so it may look like the same guitar if you don't notice him changing over between songs. But I know he always has at least one backup for every guitar tuning/configuration. I think maybe he might have made a couple of guitar changes that you didn't notice because the changeovers happened quickly and discretely, and the guitars looked similar. But I could be wrong. I know that it seemed like he was making more guitar changes in the Along for the Ride tour than others I can recall, but it seems to have tapered off again since then (on DT tours and his solo tour), so maybe he is just sticking to a couple of main instruments for as long as possible without switching unless necessary now.
I’m actually quite sure about my observation, since I stood right in front of him only a few meters away, so I had a good view of when he either left the stage or got handed something else. Of course, I assume he had a backup 6-string as well, and maybe it was the same color, so if he changed back from a 7-string he could well have been playing another identical 6-string. Although he did a lot of tuning between songs instead of just switching to a different guitar. It just struck me as interesting that the 2 songs with deviating tunings/configurations were ditched for this leg, since showcasing the 8-string would be a good “marketing opportunity” for his new signature product, and the fact that ES was a banger the last time around (my subjective opinion of course).
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Who's the support for these European dates? Are they all deffo not "evening with" shows, does anyone know? Thanks
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Who's the support for these European dates? Are they all deffo not "evening with" shows, does anyone know? Thanks
Arion is support for this leg of the Euro tour.
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Who's the support for these European dates? Are they all deffo not "evening with" shows, does anyone know? Thanks
Arion is support for this leg of the Euro tour.
Thanks!
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Just a quick question, are they still crazy loud? Going to see them next week so am curious if plugs are needed. Keeping away from set lists so don’t want to go back through the thread.
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I suspect the reduction in guitars was done to keep things a little more simple and cost efficient. I am looking at the setlist for the European shows and maybe most of the duration of the set requires a 7 string. He probably had a back up 6 string as well. At the beginning of the European leg he did a short Twitter video showing his 'steakhouse' 6 string Majesty and saying that he was bringing it. From some of the other audience footage of the show it looks like he played purple majesty - he has a new purple colored one on the market now - on Solitary Shell. I guess the tuning held up enough to do all the 6 string shows with one axe.
I also didn't realize they cut Awaken the Master. That seems to be a fan favorite so I would not be surprised to learn that this was part of the effort to simplify the rig for cross continental travel. You would need at least two 8 strings for just one song.
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I also didn't realize they cut Awaken the Master. That seems to be a fan favorite so I would not be surprised to learn that this was part of the effort to simplify the rig for cross continental travel. You would need at least two 8 strings for just one song.
Just throw in a random Animals As Leaders song there to make it TWO songs then. :lol
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I feel like with DT, we should be getting US tour dates any day now, no? They are done in Europe in a week and a half, and have only 3 dates announced in Asia. If they're touring this summer here, shouldn't those dates be coming soon?
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I feel like with DT, we should be getting US tour dates any day now, no? They are done in Europe in a week and a half, and have only 3 dates announced in Asia. If they're touring this summer here, shouldn't those dates be coming soon?
Maybe, summer tours only just started being announced recently, but are they even hinting at US tour dates coming soon?
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I feel like with DT, we should be getting US tour dates any day now, no? They are done in Europe in a week and a half, and have only 3 dates announced in Asia. If they're touring this summer here, shouldn't those dates be coming soon?
Maybe, summer tours only just started being announced recently, but are they even hinting at US tour dates coming soon?
I know I read, or saw in an interview a couple months back with either JL or JP where they did state they'd be touring the US again this year. Sorry, I can't recall exactly where I saw that but I know I did somewhere lol (sucks getting old).
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I know I read, or saw in an interview a couple months back with either JL or JP where they did state they'd be touring the US again this year. Sorry, I can't recall exactly where I saw that but I know I did somewhere lol (sucks getting old).
It might have been this interview. That's the only one I remember that was posted here where James was talking about upcoming tour dates in the US.
https://blabbermouth.net/news/james-labrie-doesnt-think-dream-theater-will-begin-recording-next-album-before-early-2024 (https://blabbermouth.net/news/james-labrie-doesnt-think-dream-theater-will-begin-recording-next-album-before-early-2024)
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I know I read, or saw in an interview a couple months back with either JL or JP where they did state they'd be touring the US again this year. Sorry, I can't recall exactly where I saw that but I know I did somewhere lol (sucks getting old).
It might have been this interview. That's the only one I remember that was posted here where James was talking about upcoming tour dates in the US.
https://blabbermouth.net/news/james-labrie-doesnt-think-dream-theater-will-begin-recording-next-album-before-early-2024 (https://blabbermouth.net/news/james-labrie-doesnt-think-dream-theater-will-begin-recording-next-album-before-early-2024)
Yes I think that's it. Thanks cminor
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still nothing on a potential DVD? :-\
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I have my doubts about a possible dvd from this tour. I think they would have announced it by now, so more people would be buying tickets for that particular show.
I remember JP saying in a recent interview that he's not much of a dvd/bluray guy anymore. 🤔
I hope I'm wrong.
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Surprised to not have seen a mention of this yet. The band tweeted on Feb 1st that the concert in Copenhagen that was scheduled for tonight is cancelled due to "unforeseen circumstances". There's been no further info as far as I can tell on what the bump in the road might have been.
https://twitter.com/dreamtheaternet/status/1620607896785412098
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If I'm not mistaken, the stage that the venue had erected was unsuitable to support the lighting rig, or some other technical stuff.
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If I'm not mistaken, the stage that the venue had erected was unsuitable to support the lighting rig, or some other technical stuff.
Different show. That was the case for the one in Oulu, Finland last week.
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If I'm not mistaken, the stage that the venue had erected was unsuitable to support the lighting rig, or some other technical stuff.
Different show. That was the case for the one in Oulu, Finland last week.
Exactly.
Anyway, way too much bad luck for the band over here in Europe. During this tour they already had to cancel two concerts and in 2022 one (?) in Spain. I really hope there is an insurance for such cases.
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Anyway, way too much bad luck for the band over here in Europe.
Yeah, this tour seems to be kind of a disaster in some ways.
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yeah i'm supposed to see them tomorrow, i really hope no one's sick or anything like that. Sold out venue :-)
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Wait a minute, this is the third show in total that got cancelled in the last four weeks? How does that even happen? :omg:
I'm honestly grateful that the show I saw in Bratislava even happened, it's usually the concerts in Eastern Europe that end up getting cancelled.
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Wait a minute, this is the third show in total that got cancelled in the last four weeks?
To make it clear: I think they had to cancel two dates [Oulu, Finland and Horsens, Denmark] for the 2023 Europe tour and one (maybe more? I don't remember) for the first leg of the Europe tour back in May 2022 [Bilbao, Spain].
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Oh, I thought
If I'm not mistaken, the stage that the venue had erected was unsuitable to support the lighting rig, or some other technical stuff.
Different show. That was the case for the one in Oulu, Finland last week.
meant there were two Finland cancellations and then the one back from Denmark earlier in the tour.
I also thought this was implying 3 cancellations. 2 is still pretty shitty.
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yeah i'm supposed to see them tomorrow, i really hope no one's sick or anything like that. Sold out venue :-)
Sold out? Nice, hope you have a wunderful time Schurftkut! I'll see them Sunday in 013, Tilburg. Can't wait...
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Watching the Break the Fourth Wall video tonight. In a way that is the birth of the DT that exists today. It's nuts how energetic and locked in the band sounds on this. The View tour is excellent too, but this show was just next level. Anyone agree?
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Oh, I thought
If I'm not mistaken, the stage that the venue had erected was unsuitable to support the lighting rig, or some other technical stuff.
Different show. That was the case for the one in Oulu, Finland last week.
meant there were two Finland cancellations and then the one back from Denmark earlier in the tour.
I also thought this was implying 3 cancellations. 2 is still pretty shitty.
Only the latter Finnish show in Oulu was canceled due to the stage issues - Tampere went ahead as planned, though according to reports they only sold 1700 tickets.
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Watching the Break the Fourth Wall video tonight. In a way that is the birth of the DT that exists today. It's nuts how energetic and locked in the band sounds on this. The View tour is excellent too, but this show was just next level. Anyone agree?
Totally agree, this show is one of their very best, IMHO.
edit; such a shame they only released it in a dvd-package, with no limited editions. Would be fantastic if it was released as an artbook or vinyl as well.
And strangly enough it's not for sale in iTunes or AppleTV.
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i just uploaded 2 short videos of the concert last night. I had perfect seats in the middle behind the lighting guy. Search for "dream theater oosterpoort" on youtube to see them (6:00/solitary shell)
good to see them have fun on stage, the singer of Arion who opened had really good energy and a voice that could rival JLB in 1992, it's just that their music wasn't my cup of tea.. ^^
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How was the show in Groningen? One of the smallest venues they've played in NL in their entire career. Times are definitely changing.
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How was the show in Groningen? One of the smallest venues they've played in NL in their entire career. Times are definitely changing.
Tonight they'll play in 013 Tilburg, a venue with the capacities of 3000 people. Curious to see if it's fully loaded, because tickets are still available.
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I'll be there tonight. :metal
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How was the show in Groningen? One of the smallest venues they've played in NL in their entire career. Times are definitely changing.
It was a great show, and indeed the smallest venue i've seen them play at. Sitting behind the mixing desk was actually nice to be able to see those guys work as well. Openingband was about 96db, DT was 103db XD
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I'll be there tonight. :metal
Nice!
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In the car right now, but the wonderful ride already took place. Arion was great and the singer has a wonderful voice, but after a nice prelude, Dream Theater did a brilliant job. There were a lot of highs, but Six Degrees was one of the highest. Seriously well played and a tribute to one of the most beautiful composed suites.
Mangini played some insane drums in that complex A View-section and even LaBrie wasn't poor at all. Mostly quite good actually, except for Caught In a Web. That's too complex these days.
And then, when the lights turned out and The Count's intro started, goosebumps all over. Really, really special evening.
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This was my 22nd DT show. I really liked it. It was as good as a modern DT show you can get. I actually had goosebumps a few times. That has been a while with DT live.
Highlights:
- that lovely chunck of the Six Degrees suite
- the extended dreamy part in The Count Of Tuscany (JR and JP)
- the softer / cello part in AVFTTOTW
- Sleeping Giant is a great addition to the live set
- JP doing live backing vocals definitely adds to the overall live energy
- stage energy in general
The visuals were really nice. James did really well. Altough I agree he struggled most with CIAW - and would add PMU. His speeches between the songs however, were the most awkward if you'll ask me. But I can see past that. Had a great time and would definitely rate this show somewhere between top 10 and top 5 of all the shows I've seen.
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Had a great time and would definitely rate this show somewhere between top 10 and top 5 of all the shows I've seen.
I would even go as far as it being in my top 5 of all (it was my fifth time seeing them live). Ranking those shows would probably be something like:
1 - Top of the World Tour '22
2 - Top of the World Tour '23
3 - Images, Words & Beyond '17
4 - Distance Over Time, Scenes anniversary '20
5 - Metal Fest, Ghent '19
Although yesterday was absolute very, very good... I still consider last year being better, due to that unbelievable The Ministry of Lost Souls. That was the highlight for me that ev' and probably of all I've seen them perform live.
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This was my 22nd DT show. I really liked it. It was as good as a modern DT show you can get. I actually had goosebumps a few times. That has been a while with DT live.
Highlights:
- that lovely chunck of the Six Degrees suite
- the extended dreamy part in The Count Of Tuscany (JR and JP)
- the softer / cello part in AVFTTOTW
- Sleeping Giant is a great addition to the live set
- JP doing live backing vocals definitely adds to the overall live energy
- stage energy in general
The visuals were really nice. James did really well. Altough I agree he struggled most with CIAW - and would add PMU. His speeches between the songs however, were the most awkward if you'll ask me. But I can see past that. Had a great time and would definitely rate this show somewhere between top 10 and top 5 of all the shows I've seen.
Did he flip the bird or give a big FU to the fans between the songs?
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Not so much. He was talking about considering becoming a pothead when he's retired. ;-) But it was not even the content. It all just seemed a bit forced and there was no real reaction from the crowd. Like someone telling a joke that's not funny at all. A bit of a tumbleweed moment. No big deal whatsoever.
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Had a great time and would definitely rate this show somewhere between top 10 and top 5 of all the shows I've seen.
I would even go as far as it being in my top 5 of all (it was my fifth time seeing them live). Ranking those shows would probably be something like:
1 - Top of the World Tour '22
2 - Top of the World Tour '23
3 - Images, Words & Beyond '17
4 - Distance Over Time, Scenes anniversary '20
5 - Metal Fest, Ghent '19
Although yesterday was absolute very, very good... I still consider last year being better, due to that unbelievable The Ministry of Lost Souls. That was the highlight for me that ev' and probably of all I've seen them perform live.
I liked yesterdays concert a bit more than the one I saw in Amsterdam last year, which I also enjoyed, but on a different level. One of the reasons I liked yesterdays concert a tiny bit better is because of the setlist. I love Six Degrees. Another one was the overall energy and atmosphere. Hard to explain.
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Not so much. He was talking about considering becoming a pothead when he's retired. ;-) But it was not even the content, but it all seemed a bit forced and there was no real reaction from the crowd. Like someone telling a joke that's not funny at all. A bit of a tumbleweed moment. No big deal whatsoever.
:lol did he smell it in the venue or just because they were in NL? He made a pot comment in NJ once because someone was vaping and it legit stunk the first few rows of marijuana. He sniffed it and made a few comments. Generally, though, what you wrote seems pretty normal for him. His banter can be very awkward at times, specifically the telling a joke that's not funny awkward you mention.
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Another one was the overall energy and atmosphere. Hard to explain.
When it comes to the venue / atmosphere, I'll take prog-hall 013 a thousand times over Amsterdam.
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Not so much. He was talking about considering becoming a pothead when he's retired. ;-) But it was not even the content, but it all seemed a bit forced and there was no real reaction from the crowd. Like someone telling a joke that's not funny at all. A bit of a tumbleweed moment. No big deal whatsoever.
:lol did he smell it in the venue or just because they were in NL? He made a pot comment in NJ once because someone was vaping and it legit stunk the first few rows of marijuana. He sniffed it and made a few comments. Generally, though, what you wrote seems pretty normal for him. His banter can be very awkward at times, specifically the telling a joke that's not funny awkward you mention.
Haha, he was mentioning the Dutch and our reputation with marihuana overall. Then he talked about DT coming to The Netherlands for the first time in 1992 and they were smoking pot on the streets. He also mentioned that in Canada it is legal to smoke everywhere. Which is more liberal than in The Netherlands actually. Recently, they've even forbidden to smoke mariuhana in the Red Light District, for instance.
James also claimed he doesn't smoke pot anymore and joked he considered to become a pothead after his retirement.
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Another one was the overall energy and atmosphere. Hard to explain.
When it comes to the venue / atmosphere, I'll take prog-hall 013 a thousand times over Amsterdam.
Both places can have great atmosphere. It's all influenced by many factors. At least, that's how I experience it. We should consider ourselves very lucky to have so many well equiped and streamlined venues in our country. It's a privilege. The only downside: crazy expensive drinks.
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The downside is a strict speed limit getting to the 013 (I went there last year while in Amsterdam for work). I guess that's one thing I remember most about going to the 013 (as an American). Nice venue though, although the show I saw was in the small, not main, hall.
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Watching the Break the Fourth Wall video tonight. In a way that is the birth of the DT that exists today. It's nuts how energetic and locked in the band sounds on this. The View tour is excellent too, but this show was just next level. Anyone agree?
YES !!!!
Perfection ✨ And James was on fire 🔥🔥🔥
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Damn...it's painful watching James' attempt to sing the "Try to push me round..." section. If he can't do it anymore (as it's obviously the case, and that's fine) then they should just retire those types of songs from the set.
https://youtube.com/shorts/EuxBsqGveL0?feature=share
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Damn...it's painful watching James' attempt to sing the "Try to push me round..." section. If he can't do it anymore (as it's obviously the case, and that's fine) then they should just retire those types of songs from the set.
https://youtube.com/shorts/EuxBsqGveL0?feature=share
He didn't attempt to sing it in as it was, he's intentionally changing melodies of sections he thinks is going to struggle with.
CIAW is the one he's changing the most, the thing is that some of those alternate melodies are a bit odd.
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i sent my father(not a fan) some videos of JLB in the 90s and some more recent stuff to prepare him for the vocals live, but during CIAW he asked me why the singer can't sing.. :rollin
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It's not the high notes he's struggling with these days if you ask me, but it's the tempo. Fast lines like in Caught In a Web are difficult and then he can't spit out the words correctly, especially on the higher notes. But when the song is much slower, it isn't that much of a problem.
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I would love to have a crack at reworking some of those vocal melodies for James. I was once in a band where our new singer was better at low, gravelly vocals than high stuff. So I reworked a bunch of older songs to suit him and he was much happier for it, and you could hear the comfort and confidence in his performance when the melodies were tailored to his actual abilities. It was a fun challenge.
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It's not the high notes he's struggling with these days if you ask me, but it's the tempo. Fast lines like in Caught In a Web are difficult and then he can't spit out the words correctly, especially on the higher notes. But when the song is much slower, it isn't that much of a problem.
I actually agree with this. The high notes aren't especially problematic.
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he was singing off key plenty times. I've seen the cameo video of him singing Innocence Faded perfectly fine, but indeed slower. In the live environment they really have to rethink which songs they keep performing live for JLB to come out a bit better for his capabilities these days. Caught in a Web and Bridges were a step too high even with the changed melodies.
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In the live environment they really have to rethink which songs they keep performing live for JLB to come out a bit better for his capabilities these days. Caught in a Web and Bridges were a step too high even with the changed melodies.
This is what I don't understand about their current setlists, they have such a big catalog, there's no need to play their most vocally challenging songs just because they're "classics". Play to your singer's strengths.
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In the live environment they really have to rethink which songs they keep performing live for JLB to come out a bit better for his capabilities these days. Caught in a Web and Bridges were a step too high even with the changed melodies.
This is what I don't understand about their current setlists, they have such a big catalog, there's no need to play their most vocally challenging songs just because they're "classics". Play to your singer's strengths.
Fans want to hear the classics and they need to maximize attendance for the tour to pay off. Obviously the band is satisfied by the song performance, too.
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It's not the high notes he's struggling with these days if you ask me, but it's the tempo. Fast lines like in Caught In a Web are difficult and then he can't spit out the words correctly, especially on the higher notes. But when the song is much slower, it isn't that much of a problem.
I actually agree with this. The high notes aren't especially problematic.
Agreeing 💯 His is a light lyric tenor voice. Light lyric voices have all the bell-like ping and sparkle of coloratura voices, but unlike coloraturas they don't live and thrive in the utmost stratosphere. Light lyric voices "with extension" (which is what I'd call James) also have all the high notes, but their most comfortable tessitura is still that of a standard medium lyric voice, whereas a true coloratura voice can just live way up above the staff for days and never get tired (think Marc Hudson). James' best tessitura is more medium-high, with the ability to fling one up there now and again. As a light lyric soprano who tried to sing coloratura rep for years I know what it's like - the female equivalent would be Kathleen Battle vs Natalie Dessay. One is Pamina, while the other is Queen of the Night.
I think what James is doing now with the alternative melodies is just fine. It may be not what our ears are accustomed to, but if it's protecting the health and longevity of that stellar golden instrument, then I'm fine with it. 💖✨
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It's not the high notes he's struggling with these days if you ask me, but it's the tempo. Fast lines like in Caught In a Web are difficult and then he can't spit out the words correctly, especially on the higher notes. But when the song is much slower, it isn't that much of a problem.
I actually agree with this. The high notes aren't especially problematic.
Agreeing 💯 His is a light lyric tenor voice. Light lyric voices have all the bell-like ping and sparkle of coloratura voices, but unlike coloraturas they don't live and thrive in the utmost stratosphere. Light lyric voices "with extension" (which is what I'd call James) also have all the high notes, but their most comfortable tessitura is still that of a standard medium lyric voice, whereas a true coloratura voice can just live way up above the staff for days and never get tired (think Marc Hudson). James' best tessitura is more medium-high, with the ability to fling one up there now and again. As a light lyric soprano who tried to sing coloratura rep for years I know what it's like - the female equivalent would be Kathleen Battle vs Natalie Dessay. One is Pamina, while the other is Queen of the Night.
I think what James is doing now with the alternative melodies is just fine. It may be not what our ears are accustomed to, but if it's protecting the health and longevity of that stellar golden instrument, then I'm fine with it. 💖✨
Sort of difficult to compare since we are talking about two totally different voices (a male vs. female), ranges, no? Not to mention 'coloratura' refers to a specific style and way of singing - for women exclusively - that has no similarities to the Prog Metal that DT is known for.
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Sort of difficult to compare since we are talking about two totally different voices (a male vs. female), ranges, no? Not to mention 'coloratura' refers to a specific style and way of singing - for women exclusively - that has no similarities to the Prog Metal that DT is known for.
There are coloratura tenors, they typically sing Handel and Rossini. Coloratura as a style is not exclusive to women, it's simply a voice with a lot of facility to sing fast passages. When you think of a "coloratura soprano" it's a woman who specializes in this repertoire as well as very high notes. How it relates to James' singing comes down to the fact that the human voice only works one way. Whether you're singing opera, Broadway, pop, jazz, or Prog metal, there's an optimal way that it works, across all styles. I think what we're hearing in the new clips reflects an awareness of what's best for his voice at this time.
*Adding that the reason I mentioned voice types is that voices who are born to sing coloratura can sing a lot higher for a lot longer because their voices are literally built differently from lyric voices. A lyric with high notes (whether soprano or tenor) is not the same as a voice that literally is built to switch over into head voice almost a third higher. What he's doing now by staying closer to middle voice is more appropriate for the health of his voice type. To your point, though, outside of classical the types within types are less important because they don't need to be heard over an orchestra. Still it explains why certain voices live more naturally in certain ranges even within a type.
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Sort of difficult to compare since we are talking about two totally different voices (a male vs. female), ranges, no? Not to mention 'coloratura' refers to a specific style and way of singing - for women exclusively - that has no similarities to the Prog Metal that DT is known for.
There are coloratura tenors, they typically sing Handel and Rossini. Coloratura as a style is not exclusive to women, it's simply a voice with a lot of facility to sing fast passages. When you think of a "coloratura soprano" it's a woman who specializes in this repertoire as well as very high notes. How it relates to James' singing comes down to the fact that the human voice only works one way. Whether you're singing opera, Broadway, pop, jazz, or Prog metal, there's an optimal way that it works, across all styles. I think what we're hearing in the new clips reflects an awareness of what's best for his voice at this time.
*Adding that the reason I mentioned voice types is that voices who are born to sing coloratura can sing a lot higher for a lot longer because their voices are literally built differently from lyric voices. A lyric with high notes (whether soprano or tenor) is not the same as a voice that literally is built to switch over into head voice almost a third higher. What he's doing now by staying closer to middle voice is more appropriate for the health of his voice type. To your point, though, outside of classical the types within types are less important because they don't need to be heard over an orchestra. Still it explains why certain voices live more naturally in certain ranges even within a type.
Still not sure I get the coloratura reference to JLB and the style he's known for in Dream Theater, but I hope this provoked curiosity in someone to look up the term and maybe check out some coloratura musical passages on YouTube lol. It's pretty nuts what these singers do with their voices.
I have never once heard the term used in reference to a man or really anyone who wasn't a soprano singing a lead role in an opera - neither in class nor from other singers. But hey, I guess it makes sense given there is indeed a lot of ornamentation, fast passages, leaps etc required of male voices in Handel.
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I learned a lot of words today. Should be a fun YouTube rabbit hole to go down when I get bored at work.
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I learned a lot of words today.
:lol
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I learned a lot of words today. Should be a fun YouTube rabbit hole to go down when I get bored at work.
Enjoy that.
Maybe, summer tours only just started being announced recently, but are they even hinting at US tour dates coming soon?
This is what I'm waiting for too. I also hope we get the setlist that Europe is getting because Answering the Call is in it now.
This is what I don't understand about their current setlists, they have such a big catalog, there's no need to play their most vocally challenging songs just because they're "classics". Play to your singer's strengths.
There are many songs that could be considered classics that would be right in the zone for his voice now. Wither, Forsaken, These Walls, immediately come to mind.
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Where do I have to sign up for a show with Wither, Forsaken and These Walls? I must have heard only the latter, and only once.
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Where do I have to sign up for a show with Wither, Forsaken and These Walls? I must have heard only the latter, and only once.
All of those songs got some frequent play on European tour dates over the years, and Forsaken and TW were also played pretty extensively in the states. Unfortunately, Wither was only played twice in the U.S. It's very high on my list of songs I haven't seen live.
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Unfortunately, Wither was only played twice in the U.S. It's very high on my list of songs I haven't seen live.
Same here. It's one of my favorites.
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Unfortunately, Wither was only played twice in the U.S. It's very high on my list of songs I haven't seen live.
Same here. It's one of my favorites.
And my list of songs I haven't seen that I really want to see is pretty short:
- Light Fuse and Get Away
- Anna Lee
- SDOIT in its entirety (I've seen ATC, SS, ATCR and LT/GF)
- Wither
- Behind the Veil
- Surrender to Reason
- S2N
- Transcending Time
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It would be great if they played the piano version of Wither from the EP
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So I, too, looked up coloratura and came across this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg_wzbpgp8k Oh my days... what a voice.
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So I, too, looked up coloratura and came across this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg_wzbpgp8k Oh my days... what a voice.
very cool stuff. Here's a coloratura example from an actual piece of music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9CzZjIK6iA
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Saw the group in Belfast last April - great show! :metal
Heading over from the 'Emerald Isle' on Saturday for the Birmingham gig.
Will probably incur wrath here for this but, I would love to hear 'Power Down'
and 'Astonishing' as the final toons of the night/encore. :smiley:
Hoping I might pick up a European tour poster this time instead of an American
one, which is what I was sold in Belfast(!), but didn't spot until I opened it the
next day - D'OH! ::)
\m/
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Will probably incur wrath here for this but, I would love to hear 'Power Down'
and 'Astonishing' as the final toons of the night/encore. :smiley:
\m/
I just listened to Disc 2 of TA while driving after work. I would love to hear those songs live again!
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Saw the group in Belfast last April - great show! :metal
Heading over from the 'Emerald Isle' on Saturday for the Birmingham gig.
Will probably incur wrath here for this but, I would love to hear 'Power Down'
and 'Astonishing' as the final toons of the night/encore. :smiley:
Hoping I might pick up a European tour poster this time instead of an American
one, which is what I was sold in Belfast(!), but didn't spot until I opened it the
next day - D'OH! ::)
\m/
I had this happen as well. Thought it might have been an error with my specific poster and everyone else got an EU one... certainly an odd decision
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Saw the group in Belfast last April - great show! :metal
Heading over from the 'Emerald Isle' on Saturday for the Birmingham gig.
Will probably incur wrath here for this but, I would love to hear 'Power Down'
and 'Astonishing' as the final toons of the night/encore. :smiley:
Hoping I might pick up a European tour poster this time instead of an American
one, which is what I was sold in Belfast(!), but didn't spot until I opened it the
next day - D'OH! ::)
\m/
I had this happen as well. Thought it might have been an error with my specific poster and everyone else got an EU one... certainly an odd decision
Sorry to read that 'James Mypetgiress'.
It was suggested to me by a prominent member on this Forum that these USA
posters were leftovers - they certainly weren't the ones advertised behind the
merchandise counter in Belfast, and I particularly wanted the Belfast version as
it's only 45 miles up the road from home (it was also DT's first time playing here).
Very disappointing. :sad:
\m/
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If US dates aren't until the fall, and the band isn't going into the studio until early 2024, that means 3 years between albums.. :tdwn
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It was suggested to me by a prominent member on this Forum that these USA
posters were leftovers - they certainly weren't the ones advertised behind the
merchandise counter in Belfast, and I particularly wanted the Belfast version as
it's only 45 miles up the road from home (it was also DT's first time playing here).
Very disappointing. :sad:
\m/
I was at the Belfast show (only 12 miles away for me). It was great to see them on home turf, but tbh I don’t think the sectioned off arena really suits them for a venue. I’m heading to Glasgow on Sun to see them there in the Armadillo. IMO the theatre (!) style venue creates a far better vibe.
I didn’t get a poster back last year, but the merch counter was pretty sparse. They had no M T-shirts, so I had to get an L, and I’m doing my best to fit into it! ;D
The T-shirt definitely did have the right European tour dates on it though..
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Is it possible that there actually is not a US 2nd leg at all?
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Is it possible that there actually is not a US 2nd leg at all?
A 2nd US leg in the fall is literally TWO years since the release of the album. The first leg was a year ago.
I'm kind of confused, honestly.
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Going to the Manchester show tomorrow (or tonight rather). Quite enjoying the setlist actually! Anyone else going tomorrow? Beer?!
Last show I saw was the Distant Memories concert in London so rather looking forward to it.
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Is it possible that there actually is not a US 2nd leg at all?
A 2nd US leg in the fall is literally TWO years since the release of the album. The first leg was a year ago.
I'm kind of confused, honestly.
I don't really see the confusion?
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Is it possible that there actually is not a US 2nd leg at all?
A 2nd US leg in the fall is literally TWO years since the release of the album. The first leg was a year ago.
I'm kind of confused, honestly.
I don't really see the confusion?
Because I don't understand why there'd be so much time between legs. I feel like at least one person really doesn't want to tour.
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Considering that touring has been a shitshow the last few years, that seems like a stretch to infer in an abnormal situation from how we’re used to them touring, since they’ve had a pretty consistent schedule over the years.
And there’s JPs solo tour taking time away from when DT could have been touring
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They toured US in early 2022, then moved on to Europe right away, spent a part of summer touring South America, and then took a break (except for JP, who did his solo tour). Then they kicked of 2023 with the second European leg, after which they're headed to Japan. We assume that there will be other Asian or Australian tour dates before they hit the US again.
I don't see much of an issue here. The order in which they tour the continents isn't a big deal, they might as well flip the coin on that. It would also be a financially smart thing to do, stretch out the time between tour legs, so that they don't come back too soon. That sometimes makes for a better attendance.
I also don't mind that they filled out two entire years playing gigs, since they had two entire years of not doing that. They might as well make as much money as possible touring before they return to the studio to make a new album. A new album makes them less money than touring, obviously. Lets not forget AVFTTOTW didn't even make Billboard top 50.
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Is it possible that there actually is not a US 2nd leg at all?
A 2nd US leg in the fall is literally TWO years since the release of the album. The first leg was a year ago.
I'm kind of confused, honestly.
I don't really see the confusion?
Because I don't understand why there'd be so much time between legs. I feel like at least one person really doesn't want to tour.
That's an interesting conclusion. How did you arrive there?
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Is it possible that there actually is not a US 2nd leg at all?
A 2nd US leg in the fall is literally TWO years since the release of the album. The first leg was a year ago.
I'm kind of confused, honestly.
I don't really see the confusion?
Because I don't understand why there'd be so much time between legs. I feel like at least one person really doesn't want to tour.
That's an interesting conclusion. How did you arrive there?
I made it up, but I am confused by the touring schedule for this album cycle.
Right now they only have a handful of dates announced/ on sale.
Most tour dates are released many months in advance. There’s just something odd about this. I feel like the promoters are cooling down or someone maybe doesn’t want to be out on the road. Who knows, really.
All I know is that this tour cycle appears to be odd.
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If I had to guess, it would be that EVERYONE is out on the road right now, so a band like DT probably has to pick their spots.
If it was just that someone didn't want to be on the road, they wouldn't be in Europe right now, I wouldn't think.
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View Tour
- Leg 1: 32 U.S. dates between February 2 and March 21, 2022
- Leg 2: 29 European dates between April 20 and June 1, 2022
- Leg 3: One date each in Indonesia and Japan in mid-August and 4 South American dates between August 31 and September 10, 2022
Break for JP solo stuff and holidays
- Leg 5: 21 European (plus Israel) dates between January 14 and February 21, 2023
- Leg 6: 3 Japanese dates from April 30 to May 2, 2023 (more to be added?)
DOT/SFAM 20th Anniversary Tour
- Leg 1: 28 U.S. (plus Mexico) dates between March 20 and May 4, 2019
- Leg 2: 34 European (plus Israel) dates between June 7 and July 26, 2019
- Leg 3: 30 U.S./Canada dates between September 26 and November 11, 2019
- Leg 4: 7 South American dates between December 4-15, 2019
- Leg 5: 29 European dates between January 11 and February 23, 2020
They don't look all that dissimilar to me, except that the second North American leg is (presumably) getting pushed to the end this time. It's been their pattern for a while to do about 6-9 weeks and then break for a month or more. The biggest difference this time is that it's fewer shows over a slightly longer period of time, but that's because of the extended break at the end of 2022.
TA was released on January 26, 2016. DOT was released on February 22, 2019 (about 37 months later). View was released on October 22, 2021 (about 32 months later). Wouldn't surprise me if we see DT16 around June 2024, which would be 32 months after View. And, keep in mind that the gap between DOT and View probably would have been longer but for the cancelation of the additional touring that was planned after the Euro dates in 2020.
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I just don't see a single thing odd about their touring schedule
If anything, the guys are getting older and would want to spread the tours out a little more?
Their schedule seems pretty similar to other world touring bands on a new album. 2 Euro tours, 2 US tours, South America leg and small asian leg (maybe). About two years on the road with nice breaks between the legs. Pretty typical.
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It was suggested to me by a prominent member on this Forum that these USA
posters were leftovers - they certainly weren't the ones advertised behind the
merchandise counter in Belfast, and I particularly wanted the Belfast version as
it's only 45 miles up the road from home (it was also DT's first time playing here).
Very disappointing. :sad:
\m/
I was at the Belfast show (only 12 miles away for me). It was great to see them on home turf, but tbh I don’t think the sectioned off arena really suits them for a venue. I’m heading to Glasgow on Sun to see them there in the Armadillo. IMO the theatre (!) style venue creates a far better vibe.
I didn’t get a poster back last year, but the merch counter was pretty sparse. They had no M T-shirts, so I had to get an L, and I’m doing my best to fit into it! ;D
The T-shirt definitely did have the right European tour dates on it though..
Ha! ... you must be from somewhere around Hillsborough-ish? :smiley:
Yes, my tee had the desired (correct!) dates as well. Had I known that the poster
I landed home with was the American version, I would have bought the European
one too!
We saw DT in the Armadillo back in 2012 - very 'civilised' type of venue. Probably
would have gone there this time too only the date didn't suit, still, really looking
forward to 'Brum' as we haven't been to the Symphony Hall before, and it looks
very interesting (hopefully take in a good Balti too!).
I think I preferred the Belfast set as '6:00' is one of the very few DT songs I can
live without, and 'Answering The Call' is my least-preferred track on 'AVFTTOTW';
have seen (and loved!) 'ACOT' a few times now and, like someone mentioned a
while back, maybe 'The Glass Prison' (and/or 'AROP' anyone?) shoehorned in, or
something from 'TOT' again, and the truly excellent 'AVFTTOTW' title track as the
encore ... I know, 'Never Enough'! ::)
Anyway(s), enjoy 'Glasgie' on Sunday night Logain Ablar, my fellow countryman,
as we intend to enjoy 'Brum' tomorrow night!
TTFN.
\m/
P.S. Is 'The Alien' now a prophetic toon?! :biggrin:
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'jonny108' - what was the Manchester show like?
Who was the Support?
Thanks.
\m/
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What have the ticket prices been like outside the U.K.?
Our tickets in Birmingham are almost twice the price of last year's show in
Belfast! Good seats near the front, but three figures Sterling for the privilege! :eek
\m/
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Support at Manchester was from Arion. Got there too late to see them but wasn’t bothered about seeing them anyway to be honest.
Not sure whether it was just me but the sound was awful all night and I was sat right in front of the mixing desk. Mangini’s drums (and kick drum in particular) were so loud, it just drowned everything else out. Couldn’t hear the nuance or melody of the songs which was really disappointing. On the plus side, it seemed like Petrucci was actually doing proper backing vocals instead of them being piped in which I liked. Couldn’t really tell how good or bad JLB was as you could hardly hear him over the sound of the drums. He sounded ok in the quieter moments though. He seemed pretty lethargic in terms of his movement on stage though.
Overall a disappointing show due to sound issues.
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Considering that touring has been a shitshow the last few years, that seems like a stretch to infer in an abnormal situation from how we’re used to them touring, since they’ve had a pretty consistent schedule over the years.
And there’s JPs solo tour taking time away from when DT could have been touring
the Terminal Velocity tour was awesome. Do you guys think that DT may be slowing down after this tour? taking a break? (not like they really ever have) but LTE3, TV and AVFtTotW all issued in such tight succession...
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I don't see them taking a break until after their 40th anniversary tour.
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And there’s JPs solo tour taking time away from when DT could have been touring
Except that it didn’t. JP said his solo tour was scheduled during a window between DT legs.
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https://youtu.be/yN1kcbZlXSA
Man I feel for James - he’s having a tough time with some of these songs. I know there’s an inclination to want to play the classics like Pull Me Under/Caught in a Web/Grand finale, but it’s just too much to ask from him at this point in his career. It’s probably too difficult in the middle of a tour to swap out for another song like On the Backs of Angels, but they should at least downtune the song.
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Went to the show in Birmingham last night. A few comments :
It only took about 20 mins to get out of the car park last night – it took 2 hours 30 mins to get out of the car park at the Wembley gig last year ! As a result, I was back home (Bristol) in about 2 hours after the show.
Enjoyed the new setlist and liked JP’s backing vocals.
The band, as always, were on top form; however, JLB’s vocals were pretty awful in some songs (see previous clip of PMU). Someone earlier in this thread said they go to see the whole band when they play live and can almost “forgive” JLB’s singing. I agree with this but I can also understand that his singing could put some people off going to see the band again, and therefore they are now lost as paying customers. Unless they start to see a significant reduction in the number of tickets sold for tours, the rest of the band will probably not see this as a major issue.
At the very end of The Count (the encore), JP played the riff from “Black Sabbath”.
JLB also paid tribute to Sabbath whilst acknowledging that they were playing in their hometown; however, he failed to mention Judas Priest, who, for me, are a superior band to Sabbath.
A word about the support band (Arion) – I didn’t like them. Power metal isn’t really my thing and their sound wasn’t great.
All in all it was a great night and a much better experience than Wembley last year ! Those that were there will know what I am talking about……
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I just want to clarify so it doesn’t come off that I am bashing James. I think James is a great vocalist, and he still gives an incredible studio performance. But just like most older male singers, the high notes they sang when they were in their 20s/30s are more difficult.
A good example would be Celebration Day by Led Zeppelin. Some of the songs Plant sang were in the normal key because they were already in a comfortable range for him, and others were downtuned. He sounded awesome. If he tried to sing Communication Breakdown in the original key it would have been a disaster - does that make him a bad singer? No. Just a singer with limitations.
I think with careful consideration of the setlist(an instrumental break, downtuning a classic, cutting out small sections of songs like they did with Voices/Take the Time in 2007, making the set full of songs in James’ comfortable range) it would still make for a great show and the fans would be understanding and supportive of the decision. The band is still at the top of their game, and I would really like to see James right up there with them.
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Aye, that video is rough enough, but at this point I think most folks know what to expect.
I’m en route to Glasgow for the show tonight. I’m conscious that this will be the 3rd show I’m a row, so I’m sure there will be a bit of extra fatigue.
Doesn’t matter though, I will take it for what it is. It’s still an enjoyable experience seeing the guys, even if they’re not at 100%
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https://youtu.be/yN1kcbZlXSA
Man I feel for James - he’s having a tough time with some of these songs. I know there’s an inclination to want to play the classics like Pull Me Under/Caught in a Web/Grand finale, but it’s just too much to ask from him at this point in his career. It’s probably too difficult in the middle of a tour to swap out for another song like On the Backs of Angels, but they should at least downtune the song.
At 6'20'', after JP solo and right before starting singing again, he points at his throats, shakes his head while looking up at the ceiling.
Having worked with athletes going through though moments, I really feel sorry for the guy and hope the band will sort this out so to put him in a less frustrating position (I still think the more acceptable option would be to bring in a second singer).
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I was at Birmingham last night and really enjoyed it. James was a lot better than he was at Hammersmith back in 2020, and the best I've seen him in a long time, but he's still struggling. I noticed that they had chosen a set list of songs he can still have a bash at singing, with quite long instrumental parts. I also thought stuff like 6:00 had been down-tuned to accommodate him.
Great venue, the sound in the circle was the best I've heard from DT but they still play WAAAAY too loud. Had a nightmare journey to the place, though. That A38 Aston Expressway is one of the scariest roads I've ever driven on!
Very sparse stage set, and where was the rest of Mangini's drumkit?
Great show, despite the rather odd set list. Stuff like Caught In A Web and Pull Me Under were definitely needed to inject a little energy into a set of longer, heavier songs. They really should have played something a bit more melodic in the middle of that. Highlights were Sleeping Giant - what a fun song, and Petrucci's guitar tone almost destroyed the building, the fillings were rattling in my teeth! - Pull Me Under - I've never seen that much energy in the room at a DT seated gig - and Count of Tuscany with it's beautiful When You Wish Upon A Star interpolation.
Man of the match: JP this time, for the reasons outlined above.
Lots of empty seats in the venue though.
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Lots of empty seats in the venue though.
Once upon a time, I'd have been there. I only live 40 minutes away. Used to love seeing DT as much as I possibly could, whether in New York, Rome or driving 300 miles to Glasgow. But what with James' struggles and the increasing sterility of their performances, I'm just not prepared to pay the money now.
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I really don't understand why people are blaming the band for JLB's live struggles. Putting PMU on the shelf forever is a non-starter - that should be obvious. Apparently, the band is already accommodating JLB by tuning down a half step for that song. Some are acting as though everyone else is somehow unknowingly sabotaging him by selecting tunes that he could never execute. It's ridiculous and obviously he thinks he can sing the songs. I guess if the band thought he was struggling - something we have no indication of - they could just add an instrumental track, but the View tour's song selection is already skewed towards longer tunes with more instrumental passages including songs whose melodies JLB himself wrote a mere 2 years ago. This is just where he is right now in his career and song selection is not the issue. I am not sure why one would think that OTBOA is somehow going to be a totally different story (by the way, I don't think that song is much easier than any other in the DT catalogue).
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(I still think the more acceptable option would be to bring in a second singer).
Um, No.
Honestly who else could share the stage with him, without making a fool of himself? Nobody else could match that sound, much less try to emulate it.
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Just out of the Glasgow show. Some initial impressions:
Arion - I really enjoyed these guys, a lot more than I was expecting to. It’s pretty much catchy powermetal with elements of Nightwish/Helloween. The guitarist is outstanding. They were handing out branded beer mats to folks in the lobby, and I got the chance to briefly tell the singer how I thought they were good.
Sound - I thought the sound was pretty bad for the first few songs. JP’s guitar was way too loud and drowned out everything else. It did slowly improve throughout the show, but I thought we were losing a lot of the details of MM’s kit for nearly every song.
Set list - I really liked the changes from the first leg. It made it worthwhile making the trip. I think the Six Degrees songs were my favourites, but also Sleeping Giant and ATC were great additions. Caught In A Web was fine - not super keen on the album version anyway, so wasn’t too bothered. I absolutely love Solitary Shell, and it went over well.
Crowd - a lot of empty seats, unfortunately. I couldn’t see upstairs, but downstairs was maybe 2/3rds full? James made a comment “Where’s all your friends?”, which made me feel bad for the band. Not sure what the issue is, maybe high ticket prices, or oversaturation of touring? I can imagine a lot of fans may have seen them last year on the last leg, and just skipped this one.
Crowd #2 - it’s maybe that UK crowds are naturally reserved, but it was frustrating to watch the lack of interaction. It was only at the end of Count that people got to their feet and were swaying and singing along. I mean, I’m a naturally shy and introverted person in real life, but music is where I can let myself go a little. Just wish others felt that freedom too, and the band may appreciate the extra energy and feedback.
DT - I thought the guys were great. JP’s backing vocals definitely enhance the live experience. MM is a lot of fun to watch live, but I just wish we got to hear the kit more clearly. Jordan kept his coat on until the very last song - I thought he maybe wasn’t staying or something :lol. JMX is a machine as usual. James was pretty good I thought, all things considered. Though I will say this - he quite often takes liberties with the notes, and for some of the high ones, goes deliberately for a higher note than the original, or extends it way too long. I think if he kept it simple it might be better.
Oh, there was a sneaky snippet of Glasgow Kiss at the very end, which was cool.
All in all, I really enjoyed it and I’m glad I made the trip.
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Crowd - a lot of empty seats, unfortunately. I couldn’t see upstairs, but downstairs was maybe 2/3rds full? James made a comment “Where’s all your friends?”, which made me feel bad for the band. Not sure what the issue is, maybe high ticket prices, or oversaturation of touring? I can imagine a lot of fans may have seen them last year on the last leg, and just skipped this one.
That's mainly why I didn't go. I would have probably shelled out if I liked the setlist better and I definitely would have if they'd pulled Octavarium out of cold storage. I find it a bit strange that they're playing two epics in the same set and neither of them are one of their biggest fan favourites, which hasn't been played for 17 years. The Alien and AVFTTOTW would have been cool, but of the 2 or 3 others in the set that rank highly for me, I've seen them before, so they don't have quite the same pull.
Glad you enjoyed yourself though :metal
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how much were the tickets where you guys live?
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Yeah I think the reasons for small crowds have been covered - prices way too high, shitty sound, naff vocals, and set lists not to everyone’s liking. It’s a shame, but there you have it. Of the above, the sound is my biggest issue.
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how much were the tickets where you guys live?
Mine was Ł84 / $101, and my seat was Row U, so like 20 rows from the front.
Also factor in a flight and hotel stay on top of that, and it all adds up pretty quickly.
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JCrowd #2 - it’s maybe that UK crowds are naturally reserved, but it was frustrating to watch the lack of interaction. It was only at the end of Count that people got to their feet and were swaying and singing along. I mean, I’m a naturally shy and introverted person in real life, but music is where I can let myself go a little. Just wish others felt that freedom too, and the band may appreciate the extra energy and feedback.
It's a side-effect of playing all-seater venues. Metal gigs should be standing room downstairs, that would bring the energy back. i think it's a UK/US thing, as US fans seem to be more OK with the notion of seating.
I find it a bit strange that they're playing two epics in the same set and neither of them are one of their biggest fan favourites, which hasn't been played for 17 years. The Alien and AVFTTOTW would have been cool, but of the 2 or 3 others in the set that rank highly for me, I've seen them before, so they don't have quite the same pull.
Personally, I love The Count of Tuscany, it's one of my all time favourite DT songs and a huge part of the reason why I went to see this, I'd much rather see that than Octavarium or Change of Seasons. But we all like different things...
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Yeah I think the reasons for small crowds have been covered - prices way too high, shitty sound, naff vocals, and set lists not to everyone’s liking. It’s a shame, but there you have it. Of the above, the sound is my biggest issue.
Does anyone really pass on the show solely because of James' voice?
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how much were the tickets where you guys live?
Mine was Ł84 / $101, and my seat was Row U, so like 20 rows from the front.
Also factor in a flight and hotel stay on top of that, and it all adds up pretty quickly.
The ticket price alone isn't terrible but with flight and hotel, I see what you mean. Throw in a couple beers and it's $20 more.
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Just out of the Glasgow show. Some initial impressions:
Crowd #2 - it’s maybe that UK crowds are naturally reserved, but it was frustrating to watch the lack of interaction. It was only at the end of Count that people got to their feet and were swaying and singing along. I mean, I’m a naturally shy and introverted person in real life, but music is where I can let myself go a little. Just wish others felt that freedom too, and the band may appreciate the extra energy and feedback.
Completely agree, it's a terrible venue for metal gigs. They've played the same venue (the Armadillo) on previous tours, and in the past if people have tried to stand up and rock out, they've been pounced on by security and made to sit down again.
Last night's gig could have been a thousand times better if they'd played the Barrowlands or Academy instead (and would have felt less empty)!
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I wonder how much input the band has into the choice of venue? You’d think that there would be some sort of post-mortem after each gig, and if the band thought the crowd wasn’t engaged, or the venue didn’t have the right vibe, then they’d note it for the next time around.
Obviously that’s over simplistic, and it most likely comes down to cost, availability, etc. Still, would be interesting to hear what the band thinks of the various places they play in, and the crowd reaction etc.
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I wonder how much input the band has into the choice of venue? You’d think that there would be some sort of post-mortem after each gig, and if the band thought the crowd wasn’t engaged, or the venue didn’t have the right vibe, then they’d note it for the next time around.
Obviously that’s over simplistic, and it most likely comes down to cost, availability, etc. Still, would be interesting to hear what the band thinks of the various places they play in, and the crowd reaction etc.
There's also Stage Size to consider. With their production, they need a stage that can handle it. It's why their show was cancelled because the Stage couldn't handle their production and it was best to cancel, or else they'd be risking their safety.
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.I mean, I’m a naturally shy and introverted person in real life, but music is where I can let myself go a little.
This is a really important thing to mention. People of different personalities enjoy things differently. In light of that, I don't know why some judge how well the band is being received by the audience reaction. As another natural introvert, I enjoy the music quietly. It's enough for me to immerse myself in the music and the experience, and I never feel the need to "let go" and start moving around or being loud. Of course I'll be on my feet, even in the aisle (if the venue allows), applaud (and even holler) at the end of a song, but I don't jump around and do crazy things (Ok that said, if you look close during certain moments, I may be teary). But this is just an important fundamental difference in the way introverts enjoy the show. I'm glad someone mentioned it. 🙂
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I really don't understand why people are blaming the band for JLB's live struggles. Putting PMU on the shelf forever is a non-starter - that should be obvious. Apparently, the band is already accommodating JLB by tuning down a half step for that song. Some are acting as though everyone else is somehow unknowingly sabotaging him by selecting tunes that he could never execute. It's ridiculous and obviously he thinks he can sing the songs. I guess if the band thought he was struggling - something we have no indication of - they could just add an instrumental track, but the View tour's song selection is already skewed towards longer tunes with more instrumental passages including songs whose melodies JLB himself wrote a mere 2 years ago. This is just where he is right now in his career and song selection is not the issue. I am not sure why one would think that OTBOA is somehow going to be a totally different story (by the way, I don't think that song is much easier than any other in the DT catalogue).
Not to get into a back and forth over it, but just to reply to some of the things you said. They are playing Pull Me Under in its original key - they did downtune it during the anniversary tour when they played all of images and words. Yes, OTBOA is a much easier song to sing than Pull Me Under from a high notes perspective. I am very confident James could sing OTBOA and do a great job nowadays, but some of the notes in Pull Me under are just out of his range at this stage of his career.
In the studio maybe he could sing it with a couple shots at it, but live its too much after doing a set of songs. To be fair, I think hes still doing a great job with most of the other songs like Alien, Solitary Shell, Sleeping Giant, Tuscany, AVFTOTW, Answering the Call. It's just frustrating as a fan who likes to see them at their best because the whole thing seems like such an easy fix - especially because the rest of the band is still killing it and playing at a very high level.
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I really don't understand why people are blaming the band for JLB's live struggles. Putting PMU on the shelf forever is a non-starter - that should be obvious. Apparently, the band is already accommodating JLB by tuning down a half step for that song. Some are acting as though everyone else is somehow unknowingly sabotaging him by selecting tunes that he could never execute. It's ridiculous and obviously he thinks he can sing the songs. I guess if the band thought he was struggling - something we have no indication of - they could just add an instrumental track, but the View tour's song selection is already skewed towards longer tunes with more instrumental passages including songs whose melodies JLB himself wrote a mere 2 years ago. This is just where he is right now in his career and song selection is not the issue. I am not sure why one would think that OTBOA is somehow going to be a totally different story (by the way, I don't think that song is much easier than any other in the DT catalogue).
Not to get into a back and forth over it, but just to reply to some of the things you said. They are playing Pull Me Under in its original key - they did downtune it during the anniversary tour when they played all of images and words. Yes, OTBOA is a much easier song to sing than Pull Me Under from a high notes perspective. I am very confident James could sing OTBOA and do a great job nowadays, but some of the notes in Pull Me under are just out of his range at this stage of his career.
In the studio maybe he could sing it with a couple shots at it, but live its too much after doing a set of songs. To be fair, I think hes still doing a great job with most of the other songs like Alien, Solitary Shell, Sleeping Giant, Tuscany, AVFTOTW, Answering the Call. It's just frustrating as a fan who likes to see them at their best because the whole thing seems like such an easy fix - especially because the rest of the band is still killing it and playing at a very high level.
Ok but the struggles aren't unique to PMU or to 'high notes' - this is happening literally every night nearly every song. I've enjoyed a ton of footage from the View tour and it's not like things are going hunky dory until the band plays PMU. We are talking about every song missing notes that are a half or whole step apart smack in the middle of his range. It's a much more deeply set issue than just the notes are too high in his register. Even the mid-low notes are problematic.
I am not going to post footage here, but every song you mentioned has been volatile night to night.
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James was pretty good I thought, all things considered. Though I will say this - he quite often takes liberties with the notes, and for some of the high ones, goes deliberately for a higher note than the original, or extends it way too long. I think if he kept it simple it might be better.
This. This is spot on and exactly what is happening. Nothing more and nothing less than stylistic choices, and entirely fixable. If he would just sing it straight, like he used to, we would see many of these "problems" disappear. Because, admit it, when he's good, he's still very very good. That sublime, angelic sound is still there.
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Yeah I think the reasons for small crowds have been covered - prices way too high, shitty sound, naff vocals, and set lists not to everyone’s liking. It’s a shame, but there you have it. Of the above, the sound is my biggest issue.
Does anyone really pass on the show solely because of James' voice?
Yes.
(That sounds brutal but it's really not meant to. Just no other way to put it, really!)
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James takes liberties with his own music??
That sounds so weird! Why wouldn't he take liberties? It's his music!
As Neil Peart wrote - I write this song for me not you...........
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James was pretty good I thought, all things considered. Though I will say this - he quite often takes liberties with the notes, and for some of the high ones, goes deliberately for a higher note than the original, or extends it way too long. I think if he kept it simple it might be better.
This. This is spot on and exactly what is happening. Nothing more and nothing less than stylistic choices, and entirely fixable. If he would just sing it straight, like he used to, we would see many of these "problems" disappear. Because, admit it, when he's good, he's still very very good. That sublime, angelic sound is still there.
I agree. Keep it simple. I watch some of these YouTube clips and think "what is he doing?" It's kinda frustrating to this fan.
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I agree. Keep it simple. I watch some of these YouTube clips and think "what is he doing?" It's kinda frustrating to this fan.
Yes! I've had many of those "what is he doing?" moments myself. Like actual face-palm, cringe moments that do not line up with what I've always known from my favorite singer. Of course artists can evolve, but at what point does it stop being listenable...
As Neil Peart wrote - I write this song for me not you...........
Naturally but there does come a point where this can cross the line into self-indulgent showboating. When that line is crossed, things like over-ornamentation become no longer a tasteful choice which serves the music. In my (ok, I know) classical background, this is the point at which a vocal coach or conductor would remind the singer that they're going a bit off the rails. I would think that JP, JR et al would assume the role of the conductor at these times and let him know when it's a bit too much.
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James was pretty good I thought, all things considered. Though I will say this - he quite often takes liberties with the notes, and for some of the high ones, goes deliberately for a higher note than the original, or extends it way too long. I think if he kept it simple it might be better.
This. This is spot on and exactly what is happening. Nothing more and nothing less than stylistic choices, and entirely fixable. If he would just sing it straight, like he used to, we would see many of these "problems" disappear. Because, admit it, when he's good, he's still very very good. That sublime, angelic sound is still there.
Like he used to? James has always taken liberties and tried to over sing (relative to the album parts) his own parts. I noticed it on the Live in Tokyo VHS when I first got it back in the mid 90s, and I have always noticed it when seeing the band live over the years or watching concerts. It's always been his thing. Heck, even when I saw them on The Astonishing tour, he sounded pretty darn good that night, but there were a handful of times he tried to do too much, it didn't sound good, and I was like, "Nooooo, James! You were sounding so good!!" I just don't think he can help himself.
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The show in London last night was great! To my surprise, my seat was in row 8 (I wasn't aware of that when I got my tickets), and I could see everything on stage clearly. The band was sharp, to say the least, and I have no complaints about their playing at all. That was my 7th time seeing them live, but I must say while the band was great; it definitely was not one of James' best nights at all. He just looked sort of exhausted to me right off the bat. He also couldn't hit those high notes anymore to the point that, he literally didn't sing the high parts in CIAW. His vocal track volume was tuned kind of low too, perhaps it was an attempt to try and hide his singing difficulty? Still, I am glad I attended the show and I had a fantastic time last night.
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Yeah I've kind of accepted DT as what it is nowadays. Absolutelt phenomenal musicians let down by their frontman. James tries but hes just not cut out for it anymore, and thats why I tend to opt not to go see them nowadays.
If it was a one, two or even 3 out of 10 times where JLB was falling flat then I would probably chance it but its like every other show where he is struggling bad. I will just buy the blu rays and enjoy the show that way rather than dropping the big bucks to go live. Sad times.
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Yeah I've kind of accepted DT as what it is nowadays. Absolutelt phenomenal musicians let down by their frontman. James tries but hes just not cut out for it anymore, and thats why I tend to opt not to go see them nowadays.
If it was a one, two or even 3 out of 10 times where JLB was falling flat then I would probably chance it but its like every other show where he is struggling bad. I will just buy the blu rays and enjoy the show that way rather than dropping the big bucks to go live. Sad times.
That's the spirit! This is exactly what I think we need more of: acceptance. There are a lot who are in a kind of state of shock about it maybe because the performances have been so rough lately. There's been a lot of resulting excuses-- everything from speculating about unannounced injuries, to blaming the band for the setlist. But I think the more we adopt the 'it is what it is' view, the more content we'll be. It's sort of like a Buddhist approach to the vocal, if you will.
I differ a little on the live experience as I think the band sounds spectacular. I get your point about it being tough to stomach, but acceptance has helped me just let it go when I am hearing JP, MM, JR and JM tear it up. They are the very best.
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I think I've accepted it like 10 or 15 years ago when I first started going to DT concerts. He's honestly mostly fine in person, I think because of how loud DT are, so when at the venue, it almost never bothers me besides certain spots, but it becomes noticeable when I go and watch my videos or someone elses. It is what it is. I don't want anyone else up there singing for them.
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I guess no show was filmed for future release?
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I did 3 of the UK shows, Manchester, Birmingham and London last night - I thoroughly enjoyed all 3 but last night was the best, the sound was just right in the circle, powerful but clear.
Manchester was very loud but i was in the circle side wings that run close to the PA, Birmingham I was in the stalls left ledge with half the PA blocked by the circle left ledge above. You get a great view up close to the side of the stage but I wont sit there again due to the sound issues.
London was my 30th DT gig and these days post-Covid I appreciate them all the more, the 6DOIT excerpt was a highlight, much preferred JP's backing vocals to the effects employed on last years shows.
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Saw the boys in London for the last date of the tour yesterday.
My ticket was actually a drunken purchase over Christmas, the seat being 7 rows from the front facing JP (so there was no way it wasn't going to be good from a seeing-a-musical-hero play POV) but I only had medium expectations (SC and BCASL missed for me, ADTOE and DT12 were fine, TA missed). I've seen them 6 times now, I think, but not since the Train Of Thought tour, iirc. DoT and AVFTTOTW won me back and I like this venue so thought I'd give it a go.
In short, I had a blast! Still buzzing. :D
A few observations:
JP was jaw-droppingly good the whole night. What a legend. His changes, ability and heaviness are just extraordinary. The greatest metal guitarist of all time.
Jordan/JM/MM also fantastic, of course. On record you can somewhat take DT for granted but seeing them right in front of you really brings home what insane music they play, incredibly tightly.
James was a real mixed bag from WTF to fine, as you might expect, but don't want to criticise. There was a LOT of WTF, though.
The band playing to a click was no problem. I expected it to feel a bit restrained but they came across really powerfully. Heavy AF in many places. The sync of the music with the backdrop was very cool, in particular on the View title track.
AVFTTOTW was the night's highlight for me. Comes across amazingly well live. Count of Tuscany also really good, but no track was less than excellent. It was a great set, imo.
Sound was loud, meaty, aggressive and clear. I like Hammersmith Apollo. It's big-ish but has atmosphere too. The guitar tone was huge. The chugs in PMU were MONSTROUS.
The whole band seemed relaxed and happy. I guess the last date of a tour is a good one to see as everyone is well practised, relieved and looking forward to getting home to their families, etc.
Delighted I went.
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Kind of a bummer to keep reading quasi- negative reactions to James performances. He's the consumate professional and must know that it's getting tougher to do his job. I really wonder how many more years his pipes can take the repeated beating.
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Sound was loud, meaty, aggressive and clear. I like Hammersmith Apollo. It's big-ish but has atmosphere too. The guitar tone was huge. The chugs in PMU were MONSTROUS.
The whole band seemed relaxed and happy. I guess the last date of a tour is a good one to see as everyone is well practised, relieved and looking forward to getting home to their families, etc.
Delighted I went.
Glad you had a great time. You reminded me of something - the stereo guitar effect at the start of Sleeping Giant was absolutely ferocious. I heard a few audible gasps around me. Totally cool. :metal
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Sound was loud, meaty, aggressive and clear. I like Hammersmith Apollo. It's big-ish but has atmosphere too. The guitar tone was huge. The chugs in PMU were MONSTROUS.
The whole band seemed relaxed and happy. I guess the last date of a tour is a good one to see as everyone is well practised, relieved and looking forward to getting home to their families, etc.
Delighted I went.
Glad you had a great time. You reminded me of something - the stereo guitar effect at the start of Sleeping Giant was absolutely ferocious. I heard a few audible gasps around me. Totally cool. :metal
Totally. Such a massive sound.
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JP's channel 2 sounds absolutely brutal this tour. So crunchy.
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I guess no show was filmed for future release?
Unfortunately it appears that way. There's still hope for a Japan recording, but a blu-ray is looking increasingly unlikely with so few confirmed dates left. :(
It's such a shame not to have a recording every tour but I guess the label or whoever is thinking that there is not enough demand for it.
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I am sure many here had noticed this long ago, but it just dawned on me that the concert in London the other night took place in the same building; 3 years to the day since they recorded the Distance Memories show. Wow! Anyway, I listened to that cd last night while playing a video game. Good times. :biggrin:
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Yeah I think the reasons for small crowds have been covered - prices way too high, shitty sound, naff vocals, and set lists not to everyone’s liking. It’s a shame, but there you have it. Of the above, the sound is my biggest issue.
Does anyone really pass on the show solely because of James' voice?
I almost did after the DOT/SFAM tour which was my first experience of him really ruining a show for me. Prior to that I was always a huge defender of JLB but now, when you’re paying upwards of Ł86 for a ticket, I expect the frontman to sound like a professional vocalist. I gave it another go this time around and it was passable from what little I could hear but far from what I would describe as a good singer. It is getting to the point now where I would seriously consider missing them live in future. The songs and melody are important to me, I’m not just there to see them noodling away on their instruments.
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Yeah I think the reasons for small crowds have been covered - prices way too high, shitty sound, naff vocals, and set lists not to everyone’s liking. It’s a shame, but there you have it. Of the above, the sound is my biggest issue.
Does anyone really pass on the show solely because of James' voice?
I almost did after the DOT/SFAM tour which was my first experience of him really ruining a show for me. Prior to that I was always a huge defender of JLB but now, when you’re paying upwards of Ł86 for a ticket, I expect the frontman to sound like a professional vocalist. I gave it another go this time around and it was passable from what little I could hear but far from what I would describe as a good singer. It is getting to the point now where I would seriously consider missing them live in future. The songs and melody are important to me, I’m not just there to see them noodling away on their instruments.
I agree with these points. I'd forgotten about the price. (As I said, it was a drunken purchase.) My seat cost me Ł117! The most I ever paid for a ticket (except for ABBA Voyage but a family member requested that). I really enjoyed my night but the cost was about double what it should have been.
And I hate to focus on this again but feel I'm not being fully honest if I don't. I too care very much about the songs and singing. As a comparison, I've never heard an amateur singer in a pub give a vocal performance that made me wince like that.
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prices way too high, shitty sound, naff vocals, and set lists not to everyone’s liking.
I will just buy the blu rays and enjoy the show that way rather than dropping the big bucks to go live. Sad times.
I gave it another go this time around and it was passable from what little I could hear but far from what I would describe as a good singer. It is getting to the point now where I would seriously consider missing them live in future.
As a comparison, I've never heard an amateur singer in a pub give a vocal performance that made me wince like that.
Wow...you all really are a bunch of karens!
Shall I call the manager for you?
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I don't see how 'Karen' applies to this situation really. It's valid feedback/criticism from fans who are spending a lot of money to go to the shows and are either happy or disappointed.
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yeah, i've seen them live 5 times since 2004, and JLB just isn't up for many of the songs live anymore
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I don't see how 'Karen' applies to this situation really. It's valid feedback/criticism from fans who are spending a lot of money to go to the shows and are either happy or disappointed.
But saying they will not continue to support them is not acting like loyal fans... it's acting like irate customers.
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I don't see how 'Karen' applies to this situation really. It's valid feedback/criticism from fans who are spending a lot of money to go to the shows and are either happy or disappointed.
But saying they will not continue to support them is not acting like loyal fans... it's acting like irate customers.
No.
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I saw them in Manchester. Was undoubtedly one of the better DT gigs I've been to. Up there with SFAM20 Hamburg. Was quite a treat for me finally seeing PMU on my 6th outing. Way better sound than in Newcastle on their first leg of the tour and I thought James was on very good form.
I have to be honest I simply don't know how people see James' vocals as even close to him needing to call it quits. Just my two cents.
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I don't see how 'Karen' applies to this situation really. It's valid feedback/criticism from fans who are spending a lot of money to go to the shows and are either happy or disappointed.
But saying they will not continue to support them is not acting like loyal fans... it's acting like irate customers.
No. It's acting like smart consumers. We all have limited amounts of money to spend on entertainment. Being a "loyal fan" does not mean continuing to drop scarce resources on what one considers to be an inferior product. If Coke changes its formula and you don't like the new formula, are you going to continue to buy it just to be a "loyal fan"? No. If, for whatever reason, an entertainment product is no longer enjoyable to any given fan, then that person should no longer consume that product.
Personally, I'm not in that position. I've enjoyed every DT show I've attended. However, I understand why others might feel differently, and there's no good reason to cast aspersions on those who want to jump off the live show boat.
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I don't see how 'Karen' applies to this situation really. It's valid feedback/criticism from fans who are spending a lot of money to go to the shows and are either happy or disappointed.
But saying they will not continue to support them is not acting like loyal fans... it's acting like irate customers.
They could be dissatisfied customers. We are Dream Theater's customers.
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Wow...you all really are a bunch of karens!
Shall I call the manager for you?
I had a great night out. I might go again. Would be weird not to be discussing a major aspect of the performance, right?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myMR0Bl3_eY
This is one of my favourite YT videos of theirs - it was uploaded 15 years ago, and it's about an Italian gig in 2006 where they performed About to crash/Losing Time.
My point here is that when JLB was on, he did improve dramatically the overall performance of the band.
And so if someone is not keen to spend the quite huge amount of money that a DT concert costs nowadays because he feels something is missing, I can understand him.
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prices way too high, shitty sound, naff vocals, and set lists not to everyone’s liking.
I will just buy the blu rays and enjoy the show that way rather than dropping the big bucks to go live. Sad times.
I gave it another go this time around and it was passable from what little I could hear but far from what I would describe as a good singer. It is getting to the point now where I would seriously consider missing them live in future.
As a comparison, I've never heard an amateur singer in a pub give a vocal performance that made me wince like that.
Wow...you all really are a bunch of karens!
Shall I call the manager for you?
That's a bit extreme BUT I also don't understand why people are so critical of a band that has given us so much. We're not talking ozzy levels of crappy performing. If it's not up to someone's standards, fine. But I honestly can't fathom someone letting their qualms get in the way of enjoying the experience overall
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I'm kind of surprised too. I've definitely been critical of James in the past and I've heard a few mistakes live here and there but really it's the entire band, not just the James show.
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I apologize, I probably don't know the correct definition of "naff". I guess I should have used "meh" instead. James does sound good still on some songs but just overall nothing to get too excited about. Seeing the band play is always great IF YOU CAN HEAR THEM properly mixed and at a non-ludicrous volume.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myMR0Bl3_eY
This is one of my favourite YT videos of theirs - it was uploaded 15 years ago, and it's about an Italian gig in 2006 where they performed About to crash/Losing Time.
My point here is that when JLB was on, he did improve dramatically the overall performance of the band.
And so if someone is not keen to spend the quite huge amount of money that a DT concert costs nowadays because he feels something is missing, I can understand him.
WOW!! What a performance by James. He absolutely crushed it there. It's when I see performances like this that I'm reminded he is one of my all time favorite singers. :hefdaddy
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Yeah, great performance from a long time ago.
As a general point, comments on James' performance on this tour are appropriate and valid.
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Yeah, great performance from a long time ago.
It was just an example.
In all fairness, James has had great, consistent, performances up to the self titled tour cycle, which was not that long ago.
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It is understandable, really, but's it's kind of a shame that the whole tour is dominated by LaBrie's vocal abilities. There is so much more in the band to envy and adore. And although I understand one being disappointed about LaBrie, I have missed way too much in the past - without me knowing about Dream Theater - to ever miss a tour again. I would continue to go, even if LaBrie can't get a single note correct.
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Yeah, great performance from a long time ago.
It was just an example.
In all fairness, James has had great, consistent, performances up to the self titled tour cycle, which was not that long ago.
He has had good performances before. But in all fairness, he's also had more than his fair share of inconsistent not-great ones too. What differentiates the View tour is that there appear to be only the latter.
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It is understandable, really, but's it's kind of a shame that the whole tour is dominated by LaBrie's vocal abilities. There is so much more in the band to envy and adore. And although I understand one being disappointed about LaBrie, I have missed way too much in the past - without me knowing about Dream Theater - to ever miss a tour again. I would continue to go, even if LaBrie can't get a single note correct.
Feel you on this...though I do feel like there could be a point where the band has to do something whether it be reducing his time by inserting more instrumental tracks into the set, resuming the backing vocal track, etc. I think it'll all depend on how much rumbling there is in the fan base.
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Yeah, great performance from a long time ago.
It was just an example.
In all fairness, James has had great, consistent, performances up to the self titled tour cycle, which was not that long ago.
He has had good performances before. But in all fairness, he's also had more than his fair share of inconsistent not-great ones too. What differentiates the View tour is that there appear to be only the latter.
I disagree with this. I saw 3 shows on this tour. The first show about a week into the US tour and the last was one of the last shows here. The first one wasn't perfect, but not crappy at all. And the last one was great! Am I a fan-girl? Ya, so. But I am a pianist and can hear the flat notes. There aren't many at all. Does he sound like a young James? No. But neither do several other old rockers I have seen live. It really has no effect on my enjoyment of the show. If he sucked for most of it, ya, sure. But he doesn't. Some may be unable to enjoy the few moments that aren't perfect, but most do. And did this tour. I take various people to the show - my son can be critical of James - and he thought it was great.
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It is understandable, really, but's it's kind of a shame that the whole tour is dominated by LaBrie's vocal abilities. There is so much more in the band to envy and adore. And although I understand one being disappointed about LaBrie, I have missed way too much in the past - without me knowing about Dream Theater - to ever miss a tour again. I would continue to go, even if LaBrie can't get a single note correct.
I am in the same boat and agree wholeheartedly.
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Yeah, great performance from a long time ago.
It was just an example.
In all fairness, James has had great, consistent, performances up to the self titled tour cycle, which was not that long ago.
He has had good performances before. But in all fairness, he's also had more than his fair share of inconsistent not-great ones too. What differentiates the View tour is that there appear to be only the latter.
I disagree with this. I saw 3 shows on this tour. The first show about a week into the US tour and the last was one of the last shows here. The first one wasn't perfect, but not crappy at all. And the last one was great! Am I a fan-girl? Ya, so. But I am a pianist and can hear the flat notes. There aren't many at all. Does he sound like a young James? No. But neither do several other old rockers I have seen live. It really has no effect on my enjoyment of the show. If he sucked for most of it, ya, sure. But he doesn't. Some may be unable to enjoy the few moments that aren't perfect, but most do. And did this tour. I take various people to the show - my son can be critical of James - and he thought it was great.
The bold explains a lot of your post then if so many other DT fans are hearing a lot of missed notes, no? Which show in particular did he sound great at? I want to hear him sound great as much as anyone else. It would enhance my enjoyment of the songs and I think a lot of currently disappointed fans would feel better knowing that he still has it in him somewhere.
Btw, I am not complaining we aren't hearing 1990s JLB. I think his voice now is much better suited to the band's present sound. I prefer what he is doing now vs. what he did on Awake, for example. The studio recordings are fine, imo. I've mentioned in previous posts I've taken a much more 'is what it is' approach to the shows, but that doesn't mean I can unhear incorrect pitches , inaudible words and general unevenness. It's great that you enjoyed the shows (so did I) and I am not trying to convince anyone that s/he should be displeased but the live setting can distort perception and the senses due to a number of factors including the sheer volume, exuberance, excitement in the venue, etc. When we go back to the recording, it allows us to more soberly listen to what actually occurred. Have you ever had the experience of seeing a show and thinking X happened in the moment, but then watched a recording the next day only to realize it didn't really happen the way you initially felt?
As a fan, I appreciate being sanguine about what is a deteriorating condition but I think those who are unhappy about the performances have valid reason. The band sounds nearly perfect and age-defying and their already contentious vocalist is struggling to get through basic melodies night after night. It's a tough thing for a lot of fans and not something that loyalty can necessarily address.
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Really well put, Barstool.
I'm deeply uncomfortable talking about it. I'm one of those that really care about the lyrics and vocals. I'm not here just for the shredding. James is one on my all time favourite singers. He has a touching quality that is unique. Those "don't leave me now" parts from At Wits End are one of a multitude that I could mention. I absolutely adore his work.
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I respect the opinion of anyone who is turned off by what they hear in a YouTube video after the event, but as far as I am concerned: If I'm blown away in the moment of the live performance and thinks James sounds great, I personally don't care what a cellphone recording on YouTube sounds like later.
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I respect the opinion of anyone who is turned off by what they hear in a YouTube video after the event, but as far as I am concerned: If I'm blown away in the moment of the live performance and thinks James sounds great, I personally don't care what a cellphone recording on YouTube sounds like later.
Yup, if I enjoyed the show in person, no video is going to change that.
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Poor vocals, poor choice of venue, obscene ticket prices... there is plenty to legitimately criticise about the current tour. I've been a die-hard DT fan since '92, seen them live over 40 times, and I seriously think I will never go to another DT gig.
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Poor vocals, poor choice of venue, obscene ticket prices... there is plenty to legitimately criticise about the current tour. I've been a die-hard DT fan since '92, seen them live over 40 times, and I seriously think I will never go to another DT gig.
I guess I'm just more lax w criticism, IDK, but I've never been to a DT show where I didn't feel like I got more than my money's worth. I've only seen them 23 times, but literally every show has blown me away - warts and all.
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Poor vocals, poor choice of venue, obscene ticket prices... there is plenty to legitimately criticise about the current tour. I've been a die-hard DT fan since '92, seen them live over 40 times, and I seriously think I will never go to another DT gig.
DT tickets can be expensive, but the entire market is jacked up right now. I'm not sure I'd blame DT too much for how much a concert costs these days, although I think they may be slightly over priced historically for the mid range seats. I've always been able to find a cheap seat in the back or a very well priced front row seat. To me, DT's prices start to suck when you are in the middle of the floor seats as you end up paying prices similar to the front, but without as good of a view.
Poor venue is interesting and given the cancellations during the tour, I do wonder if that is a legit issue. I'm not sure I've noticed that in the US as they play mostly the same venues in the east coast where I've seen DT almost exclusively. I have read some accounts of playing in too big of a venue in Europe at times though.
If you can't take JLB in a live setting, then I agree, maybe it's best not to go to the show. Even as good as the rest of the band is, if the vocals are going to ruin it, it's best not to spend your time and money. I personally have not gotten to this point. I think AXL Rose is significantly worse live, but people still go crazy to see GNR. I'm probably similar as a DT fan. (I have little desire to see GNR again)
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The point was not that anyone who enjoyed the show should go home and watch the recording day after so they can feel bad about having a good time.
The point is that with this much of the same criticism of the tour - and quite honestly this is as much as I've ever seen on this forum - if a person is essentially saying there isn't much of an issue at all and this person is a self proclaimed fan-girl, then maybe her perception is distorted.
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Honest question.
Is there anyone else his age doing the vocal gymnastics needed for a rock show of this caliber?
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Honest question.
Is there anyone else his age doing the vocal gymnastics needed for a rock show of this caliber?
Who are his peers? That is a tough one to answer given the band's unique style. Is it anyone in Rock? It's a fair point if so because I think a lot of these guys didn't take care of their voices or practice that much. Also, there might not be many progressive metal vocalists in their late 50s.
But either way I wouldn't call DT vocal melodies 'gymnastics'.
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Joey Belladonna is almost three years older.
Andi Deris is a year younger
Bruce Dickinson is 5 years older
Rob Halford is 12 years older
John Bush is the same age
Biff Byford is 12 years older (and still sounds amazing!)
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The point was not that anyone who enjoyed the show should go home and watch the recording day after so they can feel bad about having a good time.
The point is that with this much of the same criticism of the tour - and quite honestly this is as much as I've ever seen on this forum - if a person is essentially saying there isn't much of an issue at all and this person is a self proclaimed fan-girl, then maybe her perception is distorted.
Wow. My perception is distorted because I am a fan and a girl. :\ Some seemed to miss where I said that I am also a classically trained pianist. Frankly, I thought James sang more out of tune when he was young.
And I see this much bitching here about James every tour.
Seems like the complainers aren't fans. I'd rather be a fan than a dud.
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Joey Belladonna is almost three years older.
Andi Deris is a year younger
Bruce Dickinson is 5 years older
Rob Halford is 12 years older
John Bush is the same age
Biff Byford is 12 years older (and still sounds amazing!)
You forgot Kiske who is only 4 years younger. He hasn't had the wear and tear on his voice though like James has. Eric Adams still going strong too and he's 70!
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Poor vocals, poor choice of venue, obscene ticket prices... there is plenty to legitimately criticise about the current tour. I've been a die-hard DT fan since '92, seen them live over 40 times, and I seriously think I will never go to another DT gig.
I guess I'm just more lax w criticism, IDK, but I've never been to a DT show where I didn't feel like I got more than my money's worth. I've only seen them 23 times, but literally every show has blown me away - warts and all.
Yeah, that's a pretty slack effort mate.
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Poor vocals, poor choice of venue, obscene ticket prices... there is plenty to legitimately criticise about the current tour. I've been a die-hard DT fan since '92, seen them live over 40 times, and I seriously think I will never go to another DT gig.
I guess I'm just more lax w criticism, IDK, but I've never been to a DT show where I didn't feel like I got more than my money's worth. I've only seen them 23 times, but literally every show has blown me away - warts and all.
Yeah, that's a pretty slack effort mate.
:lol
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The point was not that anyone who enjoyed the show should go home and watch the recording day after so they can feel bad about having a good time.
The point is that with this much of the same criticism of the tour - and quite honestly this is as much as I've ever seen on this forum - if a person is essentially saying there isn't much of an issue at all and this person is a self proclaimed fan-girl, then maybe her perception is distorted.
Wow. My perception is distorted because I am a fan and a girl. :\ Some seemed to miss where I said that I am also a classically trained pianist. Frankly, I thought James sang more out of tune when he was young.
I come in peace.
But how "young"? Tell you what, early DT boots are pretty common so why not dig out five shows from the I&W tour and five from the current tour and we'll compare.
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Seems like the complainers aren't fans.
That's untrue and unfair. Many complainers, including me, are life-long die-hard fans who are deeply sad about the current state of affairs.
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Honest question.
Is there anyone else his age doing the vocal gymnastics needed for a rock show of this caliber?
I think James' issues are beyond just his vocal cords' health, instead, I believe his overall physical health is affecting his performances on this tour. Granted he is never known as a gym rat like JP or anything like that, but he looks like the bloater from the Last of Us when I saw him last week in London. I am no professional singer, but I know it can be quite hard to properly breathe if your guts are bloating like that. He also appeared to be quite exhausted right off the bat. I mean, he immediately ran for a bottle of water after finishing JUST the first verse of The Alien. IMHO, James needs to start hitting the gym and get slimmer, or else he will find it even harder to sing live in the future.
On a side note, Mangini seemed to have gained quite a lot of weight too, but at least his stamina is intact and I heard no issues with his drumming in London... ok, sometimes he hit the snare a bit too hard needlessly.
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Yeah, Mangini is turning into one of the tubbier tub-thumpers. ;D
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Seems like the complainers aren't fans. I'd rather be a fan than a dud.
With all due respect, get out of here with this garbage. Being fans doesn't mean we all have to be deaf witnesses.
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Poor vocals, poor choice of venue, obscene ticket prices... there is plenty to legitimately criticise about the current tour. I've been a die-hard DT fan since '92, seen them live over 40 times, and I seriously think I will never go to another DT gig.
I guess I'm just more lax w criticism, IDK, but I've never been to a DT show where I didn't feel like I got more than my money's worth. I've only seen them 23 times, but literally every show has blown me away - warts and all.
Yeah, that's a pretty slack effort mate.
:lol
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Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.
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I'm on the fence about debating LaBrie's voice. The discussion has been relentless over the previous month and a half and it clearly doesn't lead anywhere (neither did it lead anywhere over all the other years James had received criticism, which is forever), but on the other hand, I don't think people shouldn't be able to discuss what's important to them, neither should they need to be told to unconditionally accept something that isn't acceptable to them.
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Wow. My perception is distorted because I am a fan and a girl. :\ Some seemed to miss where I said that I am also a classically trained pianist. Frankly, I thought James sang more out of tune when he was young.
And I see this much bitching here about James every tour.
Seems like the complainers aren't fans. I'd rather be a fan than a dud.
Yeah...as someone who saw DT several times pre-food poisoning, I find these discussions to be very interesting. I don't really pay attention to non-official live recordings, and I don't feel like he's any worse than he was in '92-'94. I've never been to a show where I felt like the vocal performance was lacking, so I'll continue to go until and unless that happens.
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The idea that a criticism of a vocal performance is inappropriate, "bashing" or makes you unsupportive of the band or not a fan is absolutely, completely, totally incorrect -and so much so that I'm tempted to pull out many unhelpful words. But I won't.
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If given the opportunity, would you tell JLB the criticisms you have about his voice? Would you use the same exact language you are using in this thread?
There's many things we do not know or understand about JLBs vocals, and for one I do not care.
I also, understand peoples criticism of his vocals, and again, people do not listen to Dream Theater because of JLBs vocals. I know people who do enjoy the music, buy are immediately turned off by the vocals. And one person enjoys them live, but says "Dream Theater does not need a vocalist"
I dont know what it is, but apparently the band reads these forums, and hopefully, JLB will take into account that most fans are starting to wane on his vocals, and would rather him do something to better his performances. Sometimes, harsh criticism is needed to fully see the bigger picture.
His voice has never been consistent live and he tries to change things up from time to time as well, do these chnages work? Not all the time. I do not like the way he sang "Our deeds will travel far" during the Distant Memories tour, but I was still happy I got to see and hear him sing the song.
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Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.
Don't leave. I want to hear how your Opeth discovery is going!
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If given the opportunity, would you tell JLB the criticisms you have about his voice? Would you use the same exact language you are using in this thread?
This is also a good point that I'm adding to my take on the previous page.
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But how "young"? Tell you what, early DT boots are pretty common so why not dig out five shows from the I&W tour and five from the current tour and we'll compare.
In my opinion, that's an unfair comparison. I'd say go with the FII, Scenes, and Six Degrees tours and hear how inconsistent he was back then. Once in A Livetime, Through Her Eyes single, Seoul 2000 bootleg, the two Beacon Theater shows in 2002, Bucharest 2002 official boot. I think his toooone was better back then than it is now but he was still very pitchy and seemed to struggle about as much in his mid-late 30s.
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That's why I said "young". No definition of 'young' was given.
I also deliberately chose the pre-food poisoning era.
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That's why I said "young". No definition of 'young' was given.
I also deliberately chose the pre-food poisoning era.
Fair enough. :tup
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The point was not that anyone who enjoyed the show should go home and watch the recording day after so they can feel bad about having a good time.
The point is that with this much of the same criticism of the tour - and quite honestly this is as much as I've ever seen on this forum - if a person is essentially saying there isn't much of an issue at all and this person is a self proclaimed fan-girl, then maybe her perception is distorted.
Wow. My perception is distorted because I am a fan and a girl. :\ Some seemed to miss where I said that I am also a classically trained pianist. Frankly, I thought James sang more out of tune when he was young.
I'm seeing a trend here too, my friend. As a fan who is a girl and a classically trained singer, IDK what to say about this, but it's a little unsettling. Guys, can't we all agree to disagree, as regardless of gender or anything else that is truly irrelevant, we all love this band???
If given the opportunity, would you tell JLB the criticisms you have about his voice? Would you use the same exact language you are using in this thread?
Exactly my thoughts! Would any of the authors of these criticisms say the exact same words to his face at the next meet and greet?!
I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and while I don't believe all criticisms are in the spirit of "bashing", I'm starting to wonder whether those who have been seeing them since the 1990's aren't just taking them for granted? I am a relatively new fan, since 2016, and I still feel very privileged to witness their live shows. I missed so much, I wasn't there in the 90's, I missed seeing Score live, I've missed practically everything. So I take nothing for granted. And when I had the utmost privilege of meeting James in person, I literally told him to his face that I was a classically trained singer and I appreciated his amazing technique. It's why he's my favorite singer, he has the voice of an angel. After meeting him all I could say was "Omg, I just met my angel of music". Call me a fangirl, it just may be true.
Does that mean he can do no wrong by default? No. I don't agree with many of his present stylistic choices...
I do not like the way he sang "Our deeds will travel far" during the Distant Memories tour
Case in point. (But like the OP, I was also very happy to hear him sing this song).
But I also hear, because of my background and training, what the problems are and know he can fix them. I've studied with teachers and coaches who were also vocal therapists and those who have sung at La Scala. This does not make me an authority, but from the knowledge imparted to me I do know what I'm hearing and that it's not hopeless.
And to the question of whether he actually sang better in the early 90's, mind you I am going from recordings here but no, I disagree. Maybe what he did back then was bombastic, but I actually prefer his vocals in the early 2000's up to the mid-2010's. That's when his tone was the most beautiful, most polished, most unearthly gorgeous like no other singer I've heard outside of the classical genre. And with my list of favorite singers in his and related genres, he's got some formidable competition.
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Wow. My perception is distorted because I am a fan and a girl. :\ Some seemed to miss where I said that I am also a classically trained pianist. Frankly, I thought James sang more out of tune when he was young.
And I see this much bitching here about James every tour.
Seems like the complainers aren't fans. I'd rather be a fan than a dud.
Yeah...as someone who saw DT several times pre-food poisoning, I find these discussions to be very interesting.
I always found the food posioning stuff to be really interested. Its now been ~30 years since the incident, does it even hold any weight anymore. Over the past 3 decades we've seen some fantastic and some not fantastic performances from James. Can't it simply be age?
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I really liked the new vocal approach for the Bridges In The Sky chorus. His switching to the soft heady falsetto thing for high notes seems much more preferable to than trying to push for the notes with power.
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Some of the over-reaction to any criticism here has been ridiculous. For the record:
Nuance is a thing. We can love things and also realise they are imperfect. We must love imperfect things to love any other people, or ourselves.
Variation is a thing. Your fandom means you don't see any negatives at all and only feel enraptured joy at every second of a DT gig? Great. But that's not everyone's experience. You don't get to tell others what their experience should be.
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I really liked the new vocal approach for the Bridges In The Sky chorus. His switching to the soft heady falsetto thing for high notes seems much more preferable to than trying to push for the notes with power.
There is no falsetto used in Bridges in the Sky
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The point was not that anyone who enjoyed the show should go home and watch the recording day after so they can feel bad about having a good time.
The point is that with this much of the same criticism of the tour - and quite honestly this is as much as I've ever seen on this forum - if a person is essentially saying there isn't much of an issue at all and this person is a self proclaimed fan-girl, then maybe her perception is distorted.
Wow. My perception is distorted because I am a fan and a girl. :\ Some seemed to miss where I said that I am also a classically trained pianist. Frankly, I thought James sang more out of tune when he was young.
I'm seeing a trend here too, my friend[/b]. As a fan who is a girl and a classically trained singer, IDK what to say about this, but it's a little unsettling. Guys, can't we all agree to disagree, as regardless of gender or anything else that is truly irrelevant, we all love this band???
If given the opportunity, would you tell JLB the criticisms you have about his voice? Would you use the same exact language you are using in this thread?
Exactly my thoughts! Would any of the authors of these criticisms say the exact same words to his face at the next meet and greet?!
I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and while I don't believe all criticisms are in the spirit of "bashing", I'm starting to wonder whether those who have been seeing them since the 1990's aren't just taking them for granted? I am a relatively new fan, since 2016, and I still feel very privileged to witness their live shows. I missed so much, I wasn't there in the 90's, I missed seeing Score live, I've missed practically everything. So I take nothing for granted. And when I had the utmost privilege of meeting James in person, I literally told him to his face that I was a classically trained singer and I appreciated his amazing technique. It's why he's my favorite singer, he has the voice of an angel. After meeting him all I could say was "Omg, I just met my angel of music". Call me a fangirl, it just may be true.
Does that mean he can do no wrong by default? No. I don't agree with many of his present stylistic choices...
I do not like the way he sang "Our deeds will travel far" during the Distant Memories tour
Case in point. (But like the OP, I was also very happy to hear him sing this song).
But I also hear, because of my background and training, what the problems are and know he can fix them. I've studied with teachers and coaches who were also vocal therapists and those who have sung at La Scala. This does not make me an authority, but from the knowledge imparted to me I do know what I'm hearing and that it's not hopeless.
And to the question of whether he actually sang better in the early 90's, mind you I am going from recordings here but no, I disagree. Maybe what he did back then was bombastic, but I actually prefer his vocals in the early 2000's up to the mid-2010's. That's when his tone was the most beautiful, most polished, most unearthly gorgeous like no other singer I've heard outside of the classical genre. And with my list of favorite singers in his and related genres, he's got some formidable competition.
Yes, let us now pretend, because we don't like others criticizing someone we like, that the term 'fan-girl' isn't an idiom - exactly like fan-boy - but rather it only means a human who is both a fan and a girl. I am sure the latter is what you meant in your original post despite the context which made it undeniably clear (e.g., 'I am a fan-girl'). Give me a break.
Anyway, we are respectfully discussing our opinions of the tour on the tour thread as the tour proceeds. I am sorry that some of our opinions you find upsetting but that is just how it goes sometimes.
EDIT: by the way, I find it hilarious that the same poster above who is agreeing with geeemo that 'fan-girl' was used in the literal sense (and thus in a quasi-discriminatory manner by me) and not the idiomatic one, then proceeded in the same post to use the idiomatic version herself: 'Call me a fangirl, it just may be true.'
You can't make this stuff up...
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Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.
Are you calling us sexist or something?
No one is 'bashing' either. If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.
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Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.
Are you calling us sexist or something?
No one is 'bashing' either. If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.
Autocorrect got it right for a change :lol
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Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.
Are you calling us sexist or something?
No one is 'bashing' either. If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.
Autocorrect got it right for a change :lol
Wow, not just Karens here, but bullies.
What an insufferably unfriendly place. I don't blame her for being "done here".
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Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.
Are you calling us sexist or something?
No one is 'bashing' either. If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.
Autocorrect got it right for a change :lol
:rollin
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Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.
Are you calling us sexist or something?
No one is 'bashing' either. If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.
Autocorrect got it right for a change :lol
Wow, not just Karens here, but bullies.
What an insufferably unfriendly place. I don't blame her for being "done here".
Bullies? I'm sorry?
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Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.
Are you calling us sexist or something?
No one is 'bashing' either. If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.
Autocorrect got it right for a change :lol
Wow, not just Karens here, but bullies.
What an insufferably unfriendly place. I don't blame her for being "done here".
If having a laugh at an unfortunately placed spelling mistake is considered bullying then I'm not sure that I'm the Karen (perhaps the opposite?) , but okay........any attempt at lightening the mood anywhere these days seems to be met with more and more outrage. I haven't read back pages to see how this discussion got so damn serious but I'll butt out and leave it to those who are not mean, nasty bullies.
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Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.
Are you calling us sexist or something?
No one is 'bashing' either. If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.
Autocorrect got it right for a change :lol
Wow, not just Karens here, but bullies.
What an insufferably unfriendly place. I don't blame her for being "done here".
If having a laugh at an unfortunately placed spelling mistake is considered bullying then I'm not sure that I'm the Karen (perhaps the opposite?) , but okay........any attempt at lightening the mood anywhere these days seems to be met with more and more outrage. I haven't read back pages to see how this discussion got so damn serious but I'll butt out and leave it to those who are not mean, nasty bullies.
Who let you out of the dojo? :lol
But seriously though, 100%, people need to chill out sometimes. The political correctness these days is out of control.
I for one am not a bully and prejudice against women in any way and I don't believe any other person here is either truthfully.
There's one thing I damn well know too and that Brent is no bully. He's one of the last on here that would venture anywhere near that category as a person.
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Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.
Are you calling us sexist or something?
No one is 'bashing' either. If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.
Autocorrect got it right for a change :lol
Wow, not just Karens here, but bullies.
What an insufferably unfriendly place. I don't blame her for being "done here".
If having a laugh at an unfortunately placed spelling mistake is considered bullying then I'm not sure that I'm the Karen (perhaps the opposite?) , but okay........any attempt at lightening the mood anywhere these days seems to be met with more and more outrage. I haven't read back pages to see how this discussion got so damn serious but I'll butt out and leave it to those who are not mean, nasty bullies.
Who let you out of the dojo? :lol
But seriously though, 100%, people need to chill out sometimes. The political correctness these days is out of control.
I for one am not a bully and prejudice against women in any way and I don't believe any other person here is either truthfully.
There's one thing I damn well know too and that Brent is no bully. He's one of the last on here that would venture anywhere near that category as a person.
My apologies, then. I obviously misread the intent. My retort about "bullies" was not directed at any one person, but in general. The last thing I want is to hurt someone unintentionally, so please accept the apology.
Pardon me though if it does seem at certain times as if comments by "fangirls" are marginalized? Perhaps if geeeemo and I were "fanboys" our comments would've been received the same way - essentially, treated as somehow less cerebral and more emotional - or as if somehow our fangirl status apparently overrides rationality and critical thinking? Maybe I haven't been here long enough to see a self-proclaimed "fanboy"'s comments received in the same way?
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Ya, I'll be done here. Never much of a warm welcome anyway, save Bosk. Everyone is quite polite to disagreement with others if you've been here for eons or are a guy. The James bashing is awful. It doesn't sound like fans, it sounds shitty. See you at the shows, where I will be standing and supporting the bad.
Are you calling us sexist or something?
No one is 'bashing' either. If we weren't 'fans' we wouldn't be here being so passionate about his performances.
Autocorrect got it right for a change :lol
Wow, not just Karens here, but bullies.
What an insufferably unfriendly place. I don't blame her for being "done here".
If having a laugh at an unfortunately placed spelling mistake is considered bullying then I'm not sure that I'm the Karen (perhaps the opposite?) , but okay........any attempt at lightening the mood anywhere these days seems to be met with more and more outrage. I haven't read back pages to see how this discussion got so damn serious but I'll butt out and leave it to those who are not mean, nasty bullies.
Who let you out of the dojo? :lol
But seriously though, 100%, people need to chill out sometimes. The political correctness these days is out of control.
I for one am not a bully and prejudice against women in any way and I don't believe any other person here is either truthfully.
There's one thing I damn well know too and that Brent is no bully. He's one of the last on here that would venture anywhere near that category as a person.
My apologies, then. I obviously misread the intent. My retort about "bullies" was not directed at any one person, but in general. The last thing I want is to hurt someone unintentionally, so please accept the apology.
Pardon me though if it does seem at certain times as if comments by "fangirls" are marginalized? Perhaps if geeeemo and I were "fanboys" our comments would've been received the same way - essentially, treated as somehow less cerebral and more emotional - or as if somehow our fangirl status apparently overrides rationality and critical thinking? Maybe I haven't been here long enough to see a self-proclaimed "fanboy"'s comments received in the same way?
Ok, but this is NOT what was said by geeeemo, which is what you showed support for. The below quote means something quite different.
Wow. My perception is distorted because I am a fan and a girl.
At no point did anyone remotely suggest that ones sex, gender identity etc was the reason for holding a particular view.
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At no point did anyone remotely suggest that ones sex, gender identity etc was the reason for holding a particular view.
Point taken, and I'm glad to hear it. So what is it, then? That most fans just dislike James and those fans who defend him get treated like we're his blind (and apparently also deaf) sheep? I have also posted criticisms of my own, so it's not as if I think he's unassailably perfect. But neither should we be expected to revere him any less because he isn't? That is our choice, and we shouldn't be treated as somehow less than reasonable if we're not willing to jump on the hater train.
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Yeah, BarStoolWarrior is just a jerk in general, not a sexist one.
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At no point did anyone remotely suggest that ones sex, gender identity etc was the reason for holding a particular view.
Point taken, and I'm glad to hear it. So what is it, then? That most fans just dislike James and those fans who defend him get treated like we're his blind (and apparently also deaf) sheep? I have also posted criticisms of my own, so it's not as if I think he's unassailably perfect. But neither should we be expected to revere him any less because he isn't? That is our choice, and we shouldn't be treated as somehow less than reasonable if we're not willing to jump on the hater train.
I'm happy people are happy with his performances, there's nothing more you'd like to see from a veteran so far in their career. I guess a few of us are just calling a spade a spade as we see it. I would apologise also if I've come across like people are stupid for not hearing what we are criticizing him on. People just hear things differently I suppose. I for one would never try to conform anyone to agree with my opinion of his performances of late. If I am the minority, then great, that's a good thing for the band and the fan base. If I see an issue with that, that's just it, it's simply my issue.
Sometimes I do think the 'fanboy/fangirl' thing comes into play sometimes and I'm guilty of that myself with some bands and for even a lot of James performances in the past. Many have had a go at him in the past and I've up til now, never had a single issue with his performances on anything I've heard from when he joined the band up until the DOT tour. I'll listen to anything and enjoy him, always have.
I'm kind of tired of it though, and it seems most are happy with everything and the tour that's just happened so great, I think we should move on.
Barstool is right with his last sentence too, 'At no point did anyone remotely suggest that ones sex, gender identity etc was the reason for holding a particular view.' I back that up.
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I'd just like to point out as well that referring to anyone as a Karen is an offensive slur, so that needs to GTFO.
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I'd just like to point out as well that referring to anyone as a Karen is an offensive slur, so that needs to GTFO.
Fine, then the complainers who don't want to buy tickets anymore because it's not up to their impossible standards can go call the manager all they want. I won't call them names anymore, but I might remind them that it won't do any good.
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I'd just like to point out as well that referring to anyone as a Karen is an offensive slur, so that needs to GTFO.
??? No it isn't.
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I'd just like to point out as well that referring to anyone as a Karen is an offensive slur, so that needs to GTFO.
Fine, then the complainers who don't want to buy tickets anymore because it's not up to their impossible standards can go call the manager all they want. I won't call them names anymore, but I might remind them that it won't do any good.
Goodness. How about we just don't buy tickets? I'm assuming I'm deemed a "complainer" because I'd just like the lead singer of my favourite band to turn in a level of performance I'd find suitable for the overall level of the band's musicianship.
As for the name calling... well, it should be beneath us. And the implied claim of sexism? Gosh.
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I'd just like to point out as well that referring to anyone as a Karen is an offensive slur, so that needs to GTFO.
Fine, then the complainers who don't want to buy tickets anymore because it's not up to their impossible standards can go call the manager all they want. I won't call them names anymore, but I might remind them that it won't do any good.
Your name-calling had/has no place in a discussion like this, is the point, obviously.
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Pitch is an actual, factual thing that can be measured and be put into terms. How someone experiences that sound is of course a subjective matter, as it apparently varies between people. For myself, it unfortunately sounds like nails on chalkboard, I won't enjoy a performance with significant pitch issues. And it can be put into objective terms as to why. Who the singer is or what their legacy is, is irrelevant to me, since I simply do not get an enjoyable experience if something is (really) out of tune (I thankfully do not hear every slight flaw). And trust me, it sucks if that is your experience with a favorite artist.
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I'd just like to point out as well that referring to anyone as a Karen is an offensive slur, so that needs to GTFO.
Fine, then the complainers who don't want to buy tickets anymore because it's not up to their impossible standards can go call the manager all they want. I won't call them names anymore, but I might remind them that it won't do any good.
Who is the manager?
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As for the name calling... well, it should be beneath us.
Indeed and, typically, it is. Apologies once again. It's no excuse, but I've reached a breaking point with tolerating all of it. Evidently I'm too much of a starry-eyed idealist for not thinking that I'd come to a fan site and find nothing but harsh criticism for that which we're supposedly a fan of. I've never seen its like, anywhere ever. I'm honestly tired of it, I'd love to be a more contributing part of this community but in all fairness, having to defend my favorite singer constantly to his own fans not only makes being here a less enjoyable experience overall but is becoming exhausting.
And the implied claim of sexism? Gosh.
...was not mine.
Who is the manager?
Metaphorically speaking. But if the band did have someone literally taking complaints, would the haters actually be calling them? Would they do so face to face, or if they had to provide actual identification? Or does the relative anonymity here give them the sense that they can tear James apart to their heart's delight? Again, would they say it to his face?
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I agree with those who have said we should not resort to name-calling. Unfortunately, the mod doesn't agree and has thus called me a 'jerk' out of nowhere :'(
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I agree with those who have said we should not resort to name-calling. Unfortunately, the mod doesn't agree and has thus called me a 'jerk' out of nowhere :'(
I took his post as a joke... (maybe yours is as well???) ;)
Let's put aside the 'Great Debate' for a moment and discuss the 2023 Tour. Seems like the band is intent on staying on the road as much as possible to make up for lost touring. I've been out of the loop in regards to their socials and announcements—has there been any word of them returning for another stateside run? I'd love to see them this summer at an outdoors venue.
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Let's put aside the 'Great Debate' for a moment and discuss the 2023 Tour. Seems like the band is intent on staying on the road as much as possible to make up for lost touring. I've been out of the loop in regards to their socials and announcements—has there been any word of them returning for another stateside run?
Oh yes, please!!! I'm hoping for Wallingford CT again this fall! 🙏
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But if the band did have someone literally taking complaints, would the haters actually be calling them? Would they do so face to face, or if they had to provide actual identification? Or does the relative anonymity here give them the sense that they can tear James apart to their heart's delight? Again, would they say it to his face?
You've just gone from an apology to another insulting term in "haters" and used a hyperbolic description of what are unremarkable opinions that differ to your own.
Why not try being more calm and reasonable? I reckon there'd be a higher chance of a post contributing something positive then.
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Let's put aside the 'Great Debate' for a moment and discuss the 2023 Tour. Seems like the band is intent on staying on the road as much as possible to make up for lost touring. I've been out of the loop in regards to their socials and announcements—has there been any word of them returning for another stateside run?
Oh yes, please!!! I'm hoping for Wallingford CT again this fall! 🙏
You and me both! I think, given the band's age and my stage in life, I'd be willing to travel for a late summer/early fall show...maybe even make a trip of it. Not sure how many more times I'll get to see DT, so I'm really planning to make future shows a priority.
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But if the band did have someone literally taking complaints, would the haters actually be calling them? Would they do so face to face, or if they had to provide actual identification? Or does the relative anonymity here give them the sense that they can tear James apart to their heart's delight? Again, would they say it to his face?
You've just gone from an apology to another insulting term in "haters" and used a hyperbolic description of what are unremarkable opinions that differ to your own.
Why not try being more calm and reasonable? I reckon there'd be a higher chance of a post contributing something positive then.
I can't speak for anyone else, but this "hater" has spent tons of money on the band over the years (all albums, most of the official live releases, seen them 9 times since 1994, 3 of which were cities where I had to travel), so if anyone thinks I am not a real fan, well, they can go spit. :biggrin: :biggrin:
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But if the band did have someone literally taking complaints, would the haters actually be calling them? Would they do so face to face, or if they had to provide actual identification? Or does the relative anonymity here give them the sense that they can tear James apart to their heart's delight? Again, would they say it to his face?
You've just gone from an apology to another insulting term in "haters" and used a hyperbolic description of what are unremarkable opinions that differ to your own.
Why not try being more calm and reasonable? I reckon there'd be a higher chance of a post contributing something positive then.
Well as I can't seem to say anything right, I'll just explain that my use of the term "haters" was not used as name-calling in this sense (I did not call anyone a hater), but as it is most often used to refer to a group or, even less specific than that, a general opinion?
And I have tried the "calm and reasonable" approach. How many times have I explained rationally about how the voice works, for example, only for my attempt at helping others understand better what they may be criticizing due in part to ignorance (in this sense meaning, simply, a lack of knowledge), only for it to be dismissed, or fall on deaf ears? It doesn't seem to work.
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But if the band did have someone literally taking complaints, would the haters actually be calling them? Would they do so face to face, or if they had to provide actual identification? Or does the relative anonymity here give them the sense that they can tear James apart to their heart's delight? Again, would they say it to his face?
You've just gone from an apology to another insulting term in "haters" and used a hyperbolic description of what are unremarkable opinions that differ to your own.
Why not try being more calm and reasonable? I reckon there'd be a higher chance of a post contributing something positive then.
Well as I can't seem to say anything right, I'll just explain that my use of the term "haters" was not used as name-calling in this sense (I did not call anyone a hater), but as it is most often used to refer to a group or, even less specific than that, a general opinion?
And I have tried the "calm and reasonable" approach. How many times have I explained rationally about how the voice works, for example, only for my attempt at helping others understand better what they may be criticizing due in part to ignorance (in this sense meaning, simply, a lack of knowledge), only for it to be dismissed, or fall on deaf ears? It doesn't seem to work.
You don't need to explain. The ignorance here is yours. You're ignorant of standing next to me and receiving that audio knowledge from the stage that night.
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But if the band did have someone literally taking complaints, would the haters actually be calling them?
Yet again (please learn this so you don't keep repeating your mistakes) I'm not a hater... I'm a passionate lifelong fan.
I have literally reached out directly to DT concert promoters asking them to change venue because they were booked into a terrible all-seated venue with no atmosphere. Of course, they completely ignored me. :biggrin: I would have no qualms about saying exactly this to DT or their management should the opportunity arise.
In fact a close friend of mine, who largely shares my views on modern-day DT live performances, did have the opportunity to raise this point directly with JP at a gig a couple of years back. Apparently the suggestion of "playing decent venues with standing areas, instead of these soulless all-seated venues" was met with a confused blank stare from JP.
Oh well, we tried.
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I can vouch for Graham because I've met him a few times. He might be miserable, cantankerous and dour but let's not confuse inherent traits of Scottishness with his personal characteristics :biggrin: One thing he isn't is a hater. He's a very nice chap, actually.
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You don't need to explain. The ignorance here is yours. You're ignorant of standing next to me and receiving that audio knowledge from the stage that night.
I specifically meant ignorance pertaining to how the voice works. Not simply as in calling someone "ignorant" (like you're doing) or to what you're hearing from a layman's POV.
Nice try.
I hope we can all put this behind us though, seriously. Mods, maybe what we need here is a designated place to discuss the James issue, so it doesn't take over other threads? Then those who want to engage in it can do so in their own (miserable) space, and those of us who don't wish to see it can simply ignore.
I'm not here to make enemies. Quite on the contrary.
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You don't need to explain. The ignorance here is yours. You're ignorant of standing next to me and receiving that audio knowledge from the stage that night.
I specifically meant ignorance pertaining to how the voice works. Not simply as in calling someone "ignorant" (like you're doing) or to what you're hearing from a layman's POV.
Nice try.
I hope we can all put this behind us though, seriously. Mods, maybe what we need here is a designated place to discuss the James issue, so it doesn't take over other threads? Then those who want to engage in it can do so in their own (miserable) space, and those of us who don't wish to see it can simply ignore.
I'm not here to make enemies. Quite on the contrary.
In other words, we need to declare this thread a 'safe space' so that you don't have to see differing opinions from your own?
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In other words, we need to declare this thread a 'safe space' so that you don't have to see differing opinions from your own?
Oh just stop.
Editing to add here that it has nothing to do with my own opinion. It has to do with giving members of this forum a choice as to what type of conversation they wish to engage in, or not. I've been a mod in the past, granted it was a completely different kind of fandom.but this kind of thing works. It also dispells these little sandbox fights before they even start. You want to argue about James? Then count me out next time. Argue with somebody else. I'm out.
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You don't need to explain. The ignorance here is yours. You're ignorant of standing next to me and receiving that audio knowledge from the stage that night.
I specifically meant ignorance pertaining to how the voice works. Not simply as in calling someone "ignorant" (like you're doing) or to what you're hearing from a layman's POV.
Nice try.
I hope we can all put this behind us though, seriously. Mods, maybe what we need here is a designated place to discuss the James issue, so it doesn't take over other threads? Then those who want to engage in it can do so in their own (miserable) space, and those of us who don't wish to see it can simply ignore.
I'm not here to make enemies. Quite on the contrary.
I understood what you meant.
You are ignorant in this specific case. Look the word up. You lack information - what I specifically heard that night on multiple occasions. Pitch waaaay off. Plain as day.
You can talk about voice and technique all you like, I'm happy to hear it (I'm an enthusiastic - and dreadful - amateur singer). But what you have been doing apart from that is calling other fans insulting names and being hyperbolic rather than respecting their different perspectives.
I want to get along. Hence why I'm carefully not name-calling or insulting you in response.
EDIT: Peace. Be happy.
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Oh for God's sake.
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This is why we can't have nice things.
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But if the band did have someone literally taking complaints, would the haters actually be calling them?
Yet again (please learn this so you don't keep repeating your mistakes) I'm not a hater... I'm a passionate lifelong fan.
I have literally reached out directly to DT concert promoters asking them to change venue because they were booked into a terrible all-seated venue with no atmosphere. Of course, they completely ignored me. :biggrin: I would have no qualms about saying exactly this to DT or their management should the opportunity arise.
In fact a close friend of mine, who largely shares my views on modern-day DT live performances, did have the opportunity to raise this point directly with JP at a gig a couple of years back. Apparently the suggestion of "playing decent venues with standing areas, instead of these soulless all-seated venues" was met with a confused blank stare from JP.
Oh well, we tried.
Well, no surprise to me that it is DT who want to play these venues. I'm a big fan of them doing GA floor with balcony seat type of shows, but they always lean towards the seated theaters. Funny how you say JP reacted. Not surprised he isn't interested, but confused? He should have some sense that there is a part of the fan base that misses the metal show atmosphere of their live show.
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This is why we can't have nice things.
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/027d530576ecfd7a07c93bcd9b899678/tumblr_p8idt5dZKe1ts9leuo1_r2_400.gif)
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But if the band did have someone literally taking complaints, would the haters actually be calling them?
Yet again (please learn this so you don't keep repeating your mistakes) I'm not a hater... I'm a passionate lifelong fan.
I have literally reached out directly to DT concert promoters asking them to change venue because they were booked into a terrible all-seated venue with no atmosphere. Of course, they completely ignored me. :biggrin: I would have no qualms about saying exactly this to DT or their management should the opportunity arise.
In fact a close friend of mine, who largely shares my views on modern-day DT live performances, did have the opportunity to raise this point directly with JP at a gig a couple of years back. Apparently the suggestion of "playing decent venues with standing areas, instead of these soulless all-seated venues" was met with a confused blank stare from JP.
Oh well, we tried.
Well, no surprise to me that it is DT who want to play these venues. I'm a big fan of them doing GA floor with balcony seat type of shows, but they always lean towards the seated theaters. Funny how you say JP reacted. Not surprised he isn't interested, but confused? He should have some sense that there is a part of the fan base that misses the metal show atmosphere of their live show.
I would think that the band's management along with the promoter would be the ones booking the venue. I would doubt if the band has a say in it.
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I would think that the band's management along with the promoter would be the ones booking the venue. I would doubt if the band has a say in it.
They do have at least some say.
I forget whether it was said in one of his DVD commentaries or in the FAQ on his website, but MP did say that when they started doing the "Evening With..." shows that he told their management and booking agents to try to book them in seated venues.
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I would think that the band's management along with the promoter would be the ones booking the venue. I would doubt if the band has a say in it.
You are right that I don't think the band has a direct say in the specific venues, for the most part. But from what I understand, they asked management to book seated theaters, as that is their preference.
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This is why we can't have nice things.
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/027d530576ecfd7a07c93bcd9b899678/tumblr_p8idt5dZKe1ts9leuo1_r2_400.gif)
See, that's mean. Because while most of the forum won't now have a Taylor Swift ear worm rattling around their noggin, as a fellow Swiftie, I do. Grrr.
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You are right that I don't think the band has a direct say in the specific venues, for the most part. But from what I understand, they asked management to book seated theaters, as that is their preference.
What about cities? Do they get to choose where to play?
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See, that's mean. Because while most of the forum won't now have a Taylor Swift ear worm rattling around their noggin, as a fellow Swiftie, I do. Grrr.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GlisteningWideKinkajou-size_restricted.gif)
:P :P
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I would think that the band's management along with the promoter would be the ones booking the venue. I would doubt if the band has a say in it.
You are right that I don't think the band has a direct say in the specific venues, for the most part. But from what I understand, they asked management to book seated theaters, as that is their preference.
Are there even non-seated venues in all of these markets that have capacities worth them playing in? I'd hate to see them NOT stop in CT because Wallingford (seated theater) is off the table. I remember seeing them in the early years at standing venues and it was awesome, but the theaters allow bigger/better (IMHO) stage productions which I've grown to appreciate way more.
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Are there even non-seated venues in all of these markets that have capacities worth them playing in? I'd hate to see them NOT stop in CT because Wallingford (seated theater) is off the table. I remember seeing them in the early years at standing venues and it was awesome, but the theaters allow bigger/better (IMHO) stage productions which I've grown to appreciate way more.
Same! It's one of the things I appreciate about their show. Not because these venues have seats (I'm usually on my feet anyway), but because of the relative quality of the venues themselves. I've been known to miss bands that I really love because of crappy standing venues.
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:dunno: I know a lot of venues have options for how they are configured. For example, there is a casino theater they have played at in Reno several times that can be configured for either ALL seated, or with a standing "pit" area up front and seats in the back. I have been to several shows and have seen it done both ways. I think the first time was during the second U.S. leg for The Astonishing, and they had the standing area up front (which was awesome when they did the encore of As I Am and Pull Me Under, as people actually started moshing). I believe they specifically requested other times they played there for it NOT to be configured that way.
There's also a theater in Oakland that they have played at more than once where the seats are optional. I think a lot of venues do this nowadays.
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You don't need to explain. The ignorance here is yours. You're ignorant of standing next to me and receiving that audio knowledge from the stage that night.
I specifically meant ignorance pertaining to how the voice works. Not simply as in calling someone "ignorant" (like you're doing) or to what you're hearing from a layman's POV.
Nice try.
I hope we can all put this behind us though, seriously. Mods, maybe what we need here is a designated place to discuss the James issue, so it doesn't take over other threads? Then those who want to engage in it can do so in their own (miserable) space, and those of us who don't wish to see it can simply ignore.
I'm not here to make enemies. Quite on the contrary.
They could also start there own thread to discuss these JLB issues.
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You are right that I don't think the band has a direct say in the specific venues, for the most part. But from what I understand, they asked management to book seated theaters, as that is their preference.
What about cities? Do they get to choose where to play?
No. That's why they have touring managers, or Managers. They're the ones that handle all the touring aspects such as Bus rentals, finding a hotel to stay at, the logistics in booking a venue (as some venues may be booked already for those dates, hence why the band skips the city).
There's a lot more that has to happen for a band to tour. And a lot of fans are ignorant to this fact of how intricate and how much goes into making a tour happen. It's not that simple.
This is why, Since I really enjoy this bands music, I will go to their show regardless of JLBs vocals, venue choice, or the setlist. Because I understand how much work goes into a tour and I will support a band I enjoy by buying tickets and going to the shows. It's the only way I can actually show my support.
As they all say, "They can't do this without us fans".
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I would think that the band's management along with the promoter would be the ones booking the venue. I would doubt if the band has a say in it.
You are right that I don't think the band has a direct say in the specific venues, for the most part. But from what I understand, they asked management to book seated theaters, as that is their preference.
I also feel they don't want to book venues that aren't that great of venues either, especially if the backstage is sort of a dump.
Wouldn't that be climbing the ranks, playing venues that aren't dumps.
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I was chuffed with the London venue this time around (Hammersmith Apollo). A few tours back they were hitting pieces like Wembley Arena (not Stadium) and that absolutely sucks. Soulless warehouse box type of affair.
When I stumbled over the ticket this time, the venue had a lot to do with my opting in. And well pleased I did.
On the Six Degrees tour I also caught them at the Astoria on Charing Cross Road in London. Loved that place. All standing downstairs and was right in front of JP and MP when they came on with New Millennium. Good times.
I wish some massive bands (eg Maiden) would do a few dates somewhere like that. Maybe you have to apply for tickets or whatever but to see them close up like I was for DT this time would be amazing.
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Honest question.
Is there anyone else his age doing the vocal gymnastics needed for a rock show of this caliber?
Who are his peers? That is a tough one to answer given the band's unique style. Is it anyone in Rock? It's a fair point if so because I think a lot of these guys didn't take care of their voices or practice that much. Also, there might not be many progressive metal vocalists in their late 50s.
But either way I wouldn't call DT vocal melodies 'gymnastics'.
Basically, my argument is that there aren't many vocalists around of that age who are asked to do what James does given the framework he has for his job. That said he doesn't do himself many favors.
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Joey Belladonna is almost three years older.
Andi Deris is a year younger
Bruce Dickinson is 5 years older
Rob Halford is 12 years older
John Bush is the same age
Biff Byford is 12 years older (and still sounds amazing!)
Can we all agree that Bruce is in a league of his own and that he would be an unfair comparison?
As far as the rest, are any of those other guys touring as heavily and still bring it like they used to? I mean is Halford still belting out Painkiller every night? I just think James is asked to do more. Maybe I just don't expect too many vocalists to do what they do at 55 than they do at 30. What standards do you apply?
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Honest question.
Is there anyone else his age doing the vocal gymnastics needed for a rock show of this caliber?
Who are his peers? That is a tough one to answer given the band's unique style. Is it anyone in Rock? It's a fair point if so because I think a lot of these guys didn't take care of their voices or practice that much. Also, there might not be many progressive metal vocalists in their late 50s.
But either way I wouldn't call DT vocal melodies 'gymnastics'.
Basically, my argument is that there aren't many vocalists around of that age who are asked to do what James does given the framework he has for his job. That said he doesn't do himself many favors.
What is he being asked to do every night that is above and beyond what his peers are being asked to do?
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Joey Belladonna is almost three years older.
Andi Deris is a year younger
Bruce Dickinson is 5 years older
Rob Halford is 12 years older
John Bush is the same age
Biff Byford is 12 years older (and still sounds amazing!)
Can we all agree that Bruce is in a league of his own and that he would be an unfair comparison?
As far as the rest, are any of those other guys touring as heavily and still bring it like they used to? I mean is Halford still belting out Painkiller every night? I just think James is asked to do more. Maybe I just don't expect too many vocalists to do what they do at 55 than they do at 30. What standards do you apply?
Yes, they are all still touring as heavily as Dream Theater. I'd hardly classify Dream Theater as heavily touring.
The standard I apply is to not listen back to it and say it sucked. That's my standard.
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Honest question.
Is there anyone else his age doing the vocal gymnastics needed for a rock show of this caliber?
Who are his peers? That is a tough one to answer given the band's unique style. Is it anyone in Rock? It's a fair point if so because I think a lot of these guys didn't take care of their voices or practice that much. Also, there might not be many progressive metal vocalists in their late 50s.
But either way I wouldn't call DT vocal melodies 'gymnastics'.
Basically, my argument is that there aren't many vocalists around of that age who are asked to do what James does given the framework he has for his job. That said he doesn't do himself many favors.
What is he being asked to do every night that is above and beyond what his peers are being asked to do?
Perhaps it's just me but I think the repertoire is a bit more challenging.
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Joey Belladonna is almost three years older.
Andi Deris is a year younger
Bruce Dickinson is 5 years older
Rob Halford is 12 years older
John Bush is the same age
Biff Byford is 12 years older (and still sounds amazing!)
Can we all agree that Bruce is in a league of his own and that he would be an unfair comparison?
As far as the rest, are any of those other guys touring as heavily and still bring it like they used to? I mean is Halford still belting out Painkiller every night? I just think James is asked to do more. Maybe I just don't expect too many vocalists to do what they do at 55 than they do at 30. What standards do you apply?
Yes, they are all still touring as heavily as Dream Theater. I'd hardly classify Dream Theater as heavily touring.
The standard I apply is to not listen back to it and say it sucked. That's my standard.
Fair enough.
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The standard I apply is to not listen back to it and say it sucked. That's my standard.
Agreed. How he sounds compared to his peers of a similar age is largely irrelevant to me. Does it sound good or does it not sound good? That is all I care about.
I will add once again, to keep this on an even keel, that, despite his recent live struggles, James is still one of my three favorite rock singers ever. I wouldn't be a Dream Theater fan without him. :tup :tup
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And Bruce ain't perfect either. The Nights Of The Dead album is unlistenable because of the vocals. But the boot I had from the tour the night I saw him, he's excellent.
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I will add once again, to keep this on an even keel, that, despite his recent live struggles, James is still one of my three favorite rock singers ever. I wouldn't be a Dream Theater fan without him. :tup :tup
Without a doubt.
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I thought Bruce was fairly good when I saw him on the tour right before Covid. I did not feel disappointed in that effort in the slightest.
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I thought Bruce was fairly good when I saw him on the tour right before Covid. I did not feel disappointed in that effort in the slightest.
Oh yeah, he was fantastic here, and the boot backs it up. I was just mentioning the live album from Mexico City is pretty rough.
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I will add once again, to keep this on an even keel, that, despite his recent live struggles, James is still one of my three favorite rock singers ever. I wouldn't be a Dream Theater fan without him. :tup :tup
Without a doubt.
Absolutely
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I think it's fair to say most of us think that about James.
On a separate note, regarding Bruce, he's doing way more physically and theatrically every show than James. And he's still managing to sing most notes in tune!
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From the performances of Bruce I have heard over the last decade or so, he sounds great on a lot of them, but sounds VERY off on a lot of others. I stand by what I have said a few times that he has been very inconsistent in recent years. Yes, when he's on, he's ON. And, yes, he is just on another level. Always has been. But still inconsistent at this stage of his life. That isn't meant to be a shot at him, but just an observation about whether he can deliver the notes his songs demand at this stage in his life--sometimes he can; sometimes not.
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Joey Belladonna is almost three years older.
Andi Deris is a year younger
Bruce Dickinson is 5 years older
Rob Halford is 12 years older
John Bush is the same age
Biff Byford is 12 years older (and still sounds amazing!)
Can we all agree that Bruce is in a league of his own and that he would be an unfair comparison?
As far as the rest, are any of those other guys touring as heavily and still bring it like they used to? I mean is Halford still belting out Painkiller every night? I just think James is asked to do more. Maybe I just don't expect too many vocalists to do what they do at 55 than they do at 30. What standards do you apply?
Judas Priest played 93 concerts in 2022 (they've been on a break since December to work on a new album). Painkiller was in the set for 63 of those shows.
Maiden played 57 concerts between May and October 2022 (after a nearly three year break).
Dream Theater played 69 concerts in 2022.
Is JLB asked to do more? Maybe. DT doesn't tune down like Priest does. On the other hand, Priest songs don't have 5 minute instrumental breaks.
I've attended concerts by all three of these bands within the last 4 1/2 years (Priest in Sept. 2018, DT in March 2019 and Feb. 2022, and Maiden in Sept. 2022). I was not dissatisified with any of the three singers' performances, but none of them were at their best.
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The merch could have been much better in London, I thought.
https://dreamtheater.store/products/a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-tour-2022-ladies-tee (https://dreamtheater.store/products/a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-tour-2022-ladies-tee)
This t-shirt design is great. Would have bagged it is there had been a man's version.
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I had never listened to Judas Priest before, but somehow wound up at two of their concerts last year.
I now plan on seeing them any chance I get. They were awesome.
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I will add once again, to keep this on an even keel, that, despite his recent live struggles, James is still one of my three favorite rock singers ever. I wouldn't be a Dream Theater fan without him. :tup :tup
Without a doubt.
Absolutely
💯
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The merch could have been much better in London, I thought.
https://dreamtheater.store/products/a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-tour-2022-ladies-tee (https://dreamtheater.store/products/a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-tour-2022-ladies-tee)
This t-shirt design is great. Would have bagged it is there had been a man's version.
I've been pretty disappointed by the merch offering on this tour. I got the album t-shirt from the first leg and was hoping for something a bit more interesting this time around. I ended up forking out for the hoodie. Didn't see the point in getting a second copy of the same tee just with different dates on the back, and there's something about buying merch with people's faces on that just weirds me out :lol
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The merch could have been much better in London, I thought.
https://dreamtheater.store/products/a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-tour-2022-ladies-tee (https://dreamtheater.store/products/a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-tour-2022-ladies-tee)
This t-shirt design is great. Would have bagged it is there had been a man's version.
I've been pretty disappointed by the merch offering on this tour. I got the album t-shirt from the first leg and was hoping for something a bit more interesting this time around. I ended up forking out for the hoodie. Didn't see the point in getting a second copy of the same tee just with different dates on the back, and there's something about buying merch with people's faces on that just weirds me out :lol
100% agree with the band photo thing, just weird. Yeah, I was disappointed by the merch stand too. There wasn't a lot of variety, and I did spot the hoodie, but it would have cost more than I paid for the hotel, and there's something that seemed very wrong about that! Maybe I need to stay in fancier hotels.. :lol
I know it's "metal" and all that, but it would be nice to have a few different colour options, even on the online store. I don't wear a lot of black, personally.
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100% agree with the band photo thing, just weird. Yeah, I was disappointed by the merch stand too. There wasn't a lot of variety, and I did spot the hoodie, but it would have cost more than I paid for the hotel, and there's something that seemed very wrong about that! Maybe I need to stay in fancier hotels.. :lol
I know it's "metal" and all that, but it would be nice to have a few different colour options, even on the online store. I don't wear a lot of black, personally.
I liked that hoodie... but not for Ł60 :-[
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100% agree with the band photo thing, just weird. Yeah, I was disappointed by the merch stand too. There wasn't a lot of variety, and I did spot the hoodie, but it would have cost more than I paid for the hotel, and there's something that seemed very wrong about that! Maybe I need to stay in fancier hotels.. :lol
I know it's "metal" and all that, but it would be nice to have a few different colour options, even on the online store. I don't wear a lot of black, personally.
I liked that hoodie... but not for Ł60 :-[
Where'd you get it for 60? I paid 75 in Manchester :/
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100% agree with the band photo thing, just weird. Yeah, I was disappointed by the merch stand too. There wasn't a lot of variety, and I did spot the hoodie, but it would have cost more than I paid for the hotel, and there's something that seemed very wrong about that! Maybe I need to stay in fancier hotels.. :lol
I know it's "metal" and all that, but it would be nice to have a few different colour options, even on the online store. I don't wear a lot of black, personally.
I liked that hoodie... but not for Ł60 :-[
Where'd you get it for 60? I paid 75 in Manchester :/
They'd dropped the price in London - guess being the last night of the Euro leg themed merch they were cutting their losses. I think the tees were a little cheaper too but I bought mine in Manchester. I did take advantage of the hoodie being cheaper in London.
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It is understandable, really, but's it's kind of a shame that the whole tour is dominated by LaBrie's vocal abilities. There is so much more in the band to envy and adore.
I feel this comment deserves more attention, because in a way it gets to the central issue with DT's live performances in the last several years. And that is that, by and large, they offer little more beyond near-perfect live renditions of a number of select songs, with the singing not being as near-perfect and thus drawing a lot of attention in these threads.
And I have a feeling that DT have kinda fallen into a trap of their own making here, because they have developed their live shows in such a way to make this almost inevitable. Once a tour gets going, there are no surprises regarding the songs getting played. There are usually no significant changes to the song arrangements, no improv elements or special segues between songs and no previously unheard material. There usually isn't even any obscure material (Don't Look Past Me on the I&W anniversary tour was the lone exception in the last decade or so, if I remember correctly). Hell, there aren't even any variations in tempo anymore. They have become so focused on presenting a "dialed in" show that they have gotten rid of much of what makes live shows exciting in the first place (though at least they went back to using actual backing vox this year - the taped BG vocals were another element that really took away from the live factor before that reversal). The main thing that is left to their live shows is watching a bunch of excellent players give note-for-note renditions of studio recordings with quite limited stage presence. As technically "good" as these performances still are, it's easy to see why many people miss a sense of excitement to them that goes beyond what the studio CD offers. And so there isn't really that much to discuss about the shows except how you personally feel about the choice of songs and how well James performed that night. If there were any surprises or exciting unique moments, people would be talking about those and these tour threads would be a lot livelier and more exciting to participate in. But that stuff just doesn't happen anymore. And it's by choice.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/FzLZbrIuyJglO/giphy.gif)
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They have become so focused on presenting a "dialed in" show that they have gotten rid of much of what makes live shows exciting in the first place
Completely agree.
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Where'd you get it for 60? I paid 75 in Manchester :/
75?! No way! I was at the London show and it was going for Ł60. It looks nice and all, but I honestly think something like Ł50 is a fairer price. The cost of living is sky high in the past several months :(
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It is understandable, really, but's it's kind of a shame that the whole tour is dominated by LaBrie's vocal abilities. There is so much more in the band to envy and adore.
I feel this comment deserves more attention, because in a way it gets to the central issue with DT's live performances in the last several years. And that is that, by and large, they offer little more beyond near-perfect live renditions of a number of select songs, with the singing not being as near-perfect and thus drawing a lot of attention in these threads.
And I have a feeling that DT have kinda fallen into a trap of their own making here, because they have developed their live shows in such a way to make this almost inevitable. Once a tour gets going, there are no surprises regarding the songs getting played. There are usually no significant changes to the song arrangements, no improv elements or special segues between songs and no previously unheard material. There usually isn't even any obscure material (Don't Look Past Me on the I&W anniversary tour was the lone exception in the last decade or so, if I remember correctly). Hell, there aren't even any variations in tempo anymore. They have become so focused on presenting a "dialed in" show that they have gotten rid of much of what makes live shows exciting in the first place (though at least they went back to using actual backing vox this year - the taped BG vocals were another element that really took away from the live factor before that reversal). The main thing that is left to their live shows is watching a bunch of excellent players give note-for-note renditions of studio recordings with quite limited stage presence. As technically "good" as these performances still are, it's easy to see why many people miss a sense of excitement to them that goes beyond what the studio CD offers. And so there isn't really that much to discuss about the shows except how you personally feel about the choice of songs and how well James performed that night. If there were any surprises or exciting unique moments, people would be talking about those and these tour threads would be a lot livelier and more exciting to participate in. But that stuff just doesn't happen anymore. And it's by choice.
Rotating setlist aside, haven't DT shows more or less always been this way? This is the way the music is, I think. It's not Kiss or a Jazz show. It's more like a classical music performance mindset, if you will. We expect these guys to more or less play what's on the CD in a live environment (solos aside because people always take liberties with solos) and to nail everything.
When I first started getting into DT this was sort of a sticking point for me - exactly what you're saying. I had been seeing metal and rock shows almost exclusively where there's a ton more interaction with the fans and variety and these guys got up there and stood pretty much in place and just played through their set. MP was the only one who stood out to me as an interactive performer. Decades later, I feel like these shows are essentially the way they've always been without the surprise of which song they picked and overall more locked in.
I totally get the criticism. On the View tour, I don't think there was more than 10 seconds total of interaction with the fans. I can't really if JLB introduced the band even. He may have said hello, told a joke or two and that was it. They just played their set list. I loved every second of it but to your point, left feeling like a) it was over too quick and b) something was missing.
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It would be cool if DT released an album that wasn't so technically difficult, so they could afford to rock out a little harder on stage. Still heavy and all that, but more straightforward with easier vocal lines and instrument parts.
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Rotating setlist aside, haven't DT shows more or less always been this way? This is the way the music is, I think. It's not Kiss or a Jazz show. It's more like a classical music performance mindset, if you will. We expect these guys to more or less play what's on the CD in a live environment (solos aside because people always take liberties with solos) and to nail everything.
Not at all. And even if you didn't attend any of the earlier tours or listen to bootlegs (which featured a LOT of rare and unreleased stuff), you can just look at their first live releases. On Live at the Marquee there's only six tracks, but one of them is an extended improv that was completely unknown before and another one features an extended introduction not known from the studio album (in fact it's a segue from Another Day, but only the Japanese release includes the whole sequence).
The Live in Tokyo VHS included To Live Forever (an unreleased song at the time) with an extended solo/jam section added at the end that was long considered one of their finest moments, and Puppies on Acid (an unreleased piece at the time which was later used as the intro for The Mirror).
The next live release - Once in a LIVEtime - features an extended ending jam on Take the Time that segues into Freebird. There's a Derek solo quoting from a Platypus song (also unreleased at the time, I think), Ytse Jam in the new "fasten your seatbelts!" arrangement, Jay Beckenstein guesting on Take Away My Pain, Paradigm Shift and Flight of the Bumblebee snippets in JP's solo section, Pink Floyd and Metallica excerpts in Peruvian Skies plus a bunch of minor John Williams and Rush quotes here and there.
The Five Years in a LIVEtime VHS includes Cover My Eyes (both an unreleased song *and* in a new acoustic arrangement), Speak to Me (unreleased) and To Live Forever (which by then had been released as a B-side).
Live Scenes from New York contains the "Final Scene" ending section after Finally Free that was not on the studio CD, the strange "Caught in a New Millennium" mashup, an extended Jordan solo section and the newly arranged live version of The Silent Man.
Live at Budokan includes Beyond This Life with the extended "Zappa jam" section and Hollow Years with the extended intro, the extended guitar solo and the extended outro with the piano solo. Then there's the Instrumedley with lots of wacky stuff thrown together that you wouldn't hear that way a on a studio CD, either.
Score features Another Won (unreleased), Raise the Knife (unreleased) and Metropolis newly arranged for band and orchestra.
So this was pretty typical for them for a LONG time. And again, this is just scratching the surface - the live shows often featured surprise one-off covers or side project tunes, the official releases only captured a fraction of that. Even if there was no video to go along with the audio, people had good reasons to listen to a live recording of certain tunes like Hollow Years or Cover My Eyes.
When I first started getting into DT this was sort of a sticking point for me - exactly what you're saying. I had been seeing metal and rock shows almost exclusively where there's a ton more interaction with the fans and variety and these guys got up there and stood pretty much in place and just played through their set. MP was the only one who stood out to me as an interactive performer. Decades later, I feel like these shows are essentially the way they've always been without the surprise of which song they picked and overall more locked in.
I totally get the criticism. On the View tour, I don't think there was more than 10 seconds total of interaction with the fans. I can't really if JLB introduced the band even. He may have said hello, told a joke or two and that was it. They just played their set list. I loved every second of it but to your point, left feeling like a) it was over too quick and b) something was missing.
Honestly, focusing on the "limited stage presence" point feels like it's missing my core argument. I think that this is something that cannot be that easily changed (though I sure think James could do much better) - the idea was rather that with this being a known problem, they should be trying to do more in other areas (as mentioned above) so there's other stuff to enjoy and talk about later. Instead, they've been developing the live shows in the opposite direction, and so the static performances and the vocals are what people focus on in their comments.
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I had never listened to Judas Priest before, but somehow wound up at two of their concerts last year.
I now plan on seeing them any chance I get. They were awesome.
Better late than never. Start with the "S" trilogy of albums from the 70s. Sad Wings of Destiny, Sin After Sin, Stained Class. Legendary.
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Where'd you get it for 60? I paid 75 in Manchester :/
75?! No way! I was at the London show and it was going for Ł60. It looks nice and all, but I honestly think something like Ł50 is a fairer price. The cost of living is sky high in the past several months :(
Cost of living crisis? Never heard of her. :lol
But yeah, fr. I always thought DTs merch was on the steep side but this tour really did seem to take it up a notch compared to the past few I've seen. First time I've ever thought "is it really worth it?" over some merch. In the end my desire to have memorabilia from every show took over
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Rotating setlist aside, haven't DT shows more or less always been this way? This is the way the music is, I think. It's not Kiss or a Jazz show. It's more like a classical music performance mindset, if you will. We expect these guys to more or less play what's on the CD in a live environment (solos aside because people always take liberties with solos) and to nail everything.
Not at all. And even if you didn't attend any of the earlier tours or listen to bootlegs (which featured a LOT of rare and unreleased stuff), you can just look at their first live releases. On Live at the Marquee there's only six tracks, but one of them is an extended improv that was completely unknown before and another one features an extended introduction not known from the studio album (in fact it's a segue from Another Day, but only the Japanese release includes the whole sequence).
The Live in Tokyo VHS included To Live Forever (an unreleased song at the time) with an extended solo/jam section added at the end that was long considered one of their finest moments, and Puppies on Acid (an unreleased piece at the time which was later used as the intro for The Mirror).
The next live release - Once in a LIVEtime - features an extended ending jam on Take the Time that segues into Freebird. There's a Derek solo quoting from a Platypus song (also unreleased at the time, I think), Ytse Jam in the new "fasten your seatbelts!" arrangement, Jay Beckenstein guesting on Take Away My Pain, Paradigm Shift and Flight of the Bumblebee snippets in JP's solo section, Pink Floyd and Metallica excerpts in Peruvian Skies plus a bunch of minor John Williams and Rush quotes here and there.
The Five Years in a LIVEtime VHS includes Cover My Eyes (both an unreleased song *and* in a new acoustic arrangement), Speak to Me (unreleased) and To Live Forever (which by then had been released as a B-side).
Live Scenes from New York contains the "Final Scene" ending section after Finally Free that was not on the studio CD, the strange "Caught in a New Millennium" mashup, an extended Jordan solo section and the newly arranged live version of The Silent Man.
Live at Budokan includes Beyond This Life with the extended "Zappa jam" section and Hollow Years with the extended intro, the extended guitar solo and the extended outro with the piano solo. Then there's the Instrumedley with lots of wacky stuff thrown together that you wouldn't hear that way a on a studio CD, either.
Score features Another Won (unreleased), Raise the Knife (unreleased) and Metropolis newly arranged for band and orchestra.
So this was pretty typical for them for a LONG time. And again, this is just scratching the surface - the live shows often featured surprise one-off covers or side project tunes, the official releases only captured a fraction of that. Even if there was no video to go along with the audio, people had good reasons to listen to a live recording of certain tunes like Hollow Years or Cover My Eyes.
When I first started getting into DT this was sort of a sticking point for me - exactly what you're saying. I had been seeing metal and rock shows almost exclusively where there's a ton more interaction with the fans and variety and these guys got up there and stood pretty much in place and just played through their set. MP was the only one who stood out to me as an interactive performer. Decades later, I feel like these shows are essentially the way they've always been without the surprise of which song they picked and overall more locked in.
I totally get the criticism. On the View tour, I don't think there was more than 10 seconds total of interaction with the fans. I can't really if JLB introduced the band even. He may have said hello, told a joke or two and that was it. They just played their set list. I loved every second of it but to your point, left feeling like a) it was over too quick and b) something was missing.
Honestly, focusing on the "limited stage presence" point feels like it's missing my core argument. I think that this is something that cannot be that easily changed (though I sure think James could do much better) - the idea was rather that with this being a known problem, they should be trying to do more in other areas (as mentioned above) so there's other stuff to enjoy and talk about later. Instead, they've been developing the live shows in the opposite direction, and so the static performances and the vocals are what people focus on in their comments.
I see your point as it pertains to the View tour. It definitely does not have any of the things you mentioned. But worth noting that the ADTOE and DT12 tours did have some of these elements. The Astonishing tour wouldn't but that was a unique thing anyway. View is literally them just playing through the songs.
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Can we all agree that Bruce is in a league of his own
Yeah he is! If James is my angel of music, then Bruce is my Archangel. And he absolutely slayed last year on the Senjutsu tour. If some here don't even think he sounds good, then it's more hopeless than I thought. 🙄
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And, for me, that's where allowances can be made. Bruce is doing way more, waaaaay more, in a show than just standing there and singing. Same reason why Geddy, even though he ended up sounding worse than a strangled cat, also got a pass.
I, of course, add that Bruce's performance is obviously stratospherically better than Geddy's ended up being.
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I see your point as it pertains to the View tour. It definitely does not have any of the things you mentioned. But worth noting that the ADTOE and DT12 tours did have some of these elements. The Astonishing tour wouldn't but that was a unique thing anyway. View is literally them just playing through the songs.
Yeah, but the ADTOE and DT12 tours were about a decade ago whereas for TA, DoT and View tours, they didn't really add much of a "live factor" to the arrangements or play any unusual material. It's what I've been saying - there's been a development regarding these elements and it's gone in a very obvious direction: fewer special elements to the live show.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/FzLZbrIuyJglO/giphy.gif)
“Do you know him?”
“Not socially. His name’s Jaws, he kills people!”
Oh, by the way, I have no idea what we’re talking about anymore. I’d just love to see them down under again, but this long after the Japanese tour announcement, i’d say that’s not at all on the cards.
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I see your point as it pertains to the View tour. It definitely does not have any of the things you mentioned. But worth noting that the ADTOE and DT12 tours did have some of these elements. The Astonishing tour wouldn't but that was a unique thing anyway. View is literally them just playing through the songs.
Yeah, but the ADTOE and DT12 tours were about a decade ago whereas for TA, DoT and View tours, they didn't really add much of a "live factor" to the arrangements or play any unusual material. It's what I've been saying - there's been a development regarding these elements and it's gone in a very obvious direction: fewer special elements to the live show.
Yeah, I agree Kyo. There definitely has been a move toward more or less reproducing the studio versions of these songs in recent years, and as I understand things JP has said, that has been intentional (i.e., that's what they want to do).
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The thing is with DT - they have evolved. During the Portnoy era, particularly in the 90s and early 2000s, DT was this fairly "underground" band. Yeah, they had some MTV success in the early 90s, but for the most part, SFAM proved that even a band no one has really heard of in the mainstream can survive and thrive. DT could get away with all these live versions and alternate stuff put into the songs to make it interesting, even jam band-like. It was part of their charm.
But as the years went on, and DT's audience was less of that original core, and now more younger people, and multiple generations, many who haven't seen the band before, or have but were too young to remember, it makes sense to deliver the songs as closely to the album as possible. Not only is it easier for the band, but audiences know the material.
DT is very much a "performance act" instead of the "band" I remember. The shift away from GA venues to assigned seats, from jamming and off the cuff stuff to playing the standards the way they are on the albums, it's just part of DT's trajectory and evolution. I miss the band from the 90s. I do. Not just the songs and writing, and all that, but the vibe of the band on stage and as an audience member.
I mean, I remember being lifted off my feet during "Home" at Roseland Ballroom in NYC on Feb. 26, 2000...just bodies swaying and me finding myself on the opposite end of the venue. I remember sitting at Irving Plaza for the Home for the Holidays show in Dec. 1998, hearing a set with just rarities. We were all...one big family. DT, the hometown fans, everything.
DT evolved. Dream Theater is a big business. A performance. A retirement plan now. And I don't fault them one iota for it. I'm appreciative for the memories, and I'm happy they are still going, even if I don't like the shifts in what they play live, the venues, etc. I get it. And I'm happy for them. But I do miss when it was the five of them and all us fans, against the world.
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This is a very interesting interview regarding the set list construction:
https://youtu.be/8uZ7BNoRzgc
It seems like Petrucci (and maybe the band) prefers a more professional show over the rotating setlist. He says that they used to be a big band playing in a small club style (I don't remember the exact words)
Anyway, the interview is short and entertaining. They talk about the rotating setlists at 16:20.
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This is a very interesting interview regarding the set list construction:
https://youtu.be/8uZ7BNoRzgc
It seems like Petrucci (and maybe the band) prefers a more professional show over the rotating setlist. He says that they used to be a big band playing in a small club style (I don't remember the exact words)
Anyway, the interview is short and entertaining. They talk about the rotating setlists at 16:20.
It's fascinating seeing the perspectives of the musician vs. the fans.
And he confirmed to me that the band enjoys presenting us fans with more than just them playing the songs.
This is another reason I think they should record a show. This is an amazing stage production and the show itself I would say was better than the Distant Memories tour.
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This is an amazing stage production and the show itself I would say was better than the Distant Memories tour.
AMAZING production? Really? I've seen MUCH BETTER "production" from cover bands!
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This is an amazing stage production and the show itself I would say was better than the Distant Memories tour.
AMAZING production? Really? I've seen MUCH BETTER "production" from cover bands!
Yes, I do think it is one of the best stage productions the band has done. The backdrops surrounding the stage that immerses the audience, the small scaled down stage size for the band (which includes the downsizing of Mangini's kit), the big video screen in the middle of the backdrop, the videos that are on the video screen (the production of these are top notch), The introduction video that presents us the albums of the songs they're playing from, and then you have the lighting that compliments the stage design and moments in the songs.
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I think the cleaner stage was a nice change of pace. It probably saved the band a ton of money and was more economical for sure. I personally wouldn't call it "amazing," but I felt it was a good presentation that was really striking given how sparse the stage looked. I think their lighting folks and production team did a nice job with everything to make something that streamlined "pop" the way it did.
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The standard I apply is to not listen back to it and say it sucked. That's my standard.
Agreed. How he sounds compared to his peers of a similar age is largely irrelevant to me. Does it sound good or does it not sound good? That is all I care about.
I will add once again, to keep this on an even keel, that, despite his recent live struggles, James is still one of my three favorite rock singers ever. I wouldn't be a Dream Theater fan without him. :tup :tup
It's largely irrelevant to me too, but that's only because I'm not really a fan of many of his peers.. If he puts in the effort is energetic and passionate I don't have much of a problem with him. (Though it seems he has gone back to twirling his hair which I've never been a fan of ) Oddly enough, He's never really ever been one of my favorite vocalists. I like him but he's not among my absolute favorites.
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Joey Belladonna is almost three years older.
Andi Deris is a year younger
Bruce Dickinson is 5 years older
Rob Halford is 12 years older
John Bush is the same age
Biff Byford is 12 years older (and still sounds amazing!)
Can we all agree that Bruce is in a league of his own and that he would be an unfair comparison?
As far as the rest, are any of those other guys touring as heavily and still bring it like they used to? I mean is Halford still belting out Painkiller every night? I just think James is asked to do more. Maybe I just don't expect too many vocalists to do what they do at 55 than they do at 30. What standards do you apply?
Judas Priest played 93 concerts in 2022 (they've been on a break since December to work on a new album). Painkiller was in the set for 63 of those shows.
Maiden played 57 concerts between May and October 2022 (after a nearly three year break).
Dream Theater played 69 concerts in 2022.
Is JLB asked to do more? Maybe. DT doesn't tune down like Priest does. On the other hand, Priest songs don't have 5 minute instrumental breaks.
I've attended concerts by all three of these bands within the last 4 1/2 years (Priest in Sept. 2018, DT in March 2019 and Feb. 2022, and Maiden in Sept. 2022). I was not dissatisified with any of the three singers' performances, but none of them were at their best.
Thanks for that assessment. I'm not qualified to answer the question which is why I asked it.
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It is understandable, really, but's it's kind of a shame that the whole tour is dominated by LaBrie's vocal abilities. There is so much more in the band to envy and adore.
I feel this comment deserves more attention, because in a way it gets to the central issue with DT's live performances in the last several years. And that is that, by and large, they offer little more beyond near-perfect live renditions of a number of select songs, with the singing not being as near-perfect and thus drawing a lot of attention in these threads.
And I have a feeling that DT have kinda fallen into a trap of their own making here, because they have developed their live shows in such a way to make this almost inevitable. Once a tour gets going, there are no surprises regarding the songs getting played. There are usually no significant changes to the song arrangements, no improv elements or special segues between songs and no previously unheard material. There usually isn't even any obscure material (Don't Look Past Me on the I&W anniversary tour was the lone exception in the last decade or so, if I remember correctly). Hell, there aren't even any variations in tempo anymore. They have become so focused on presenting a "dialed in" show that they have gotten rid of much of what makes live shows exciting in the first place (though at least they went back to using actual backing vox this year - the taped BG vocals were another element that really took away from the live factor before that reversal). The main thing that is left to their live shows is watching a bunch of excellent players give note-for-note renditions of studio recordings with quite limited stage presence. As technically "good" as these performances still are, it's easy to see why many people miss a sense of excitement to them that goes beyond what the studio CD offers. And so there isn't really that much to discuss about the shows except how you personally feel about the choice of songs and how well James performed that night. If there were any surprises or exciting unique moments, people would be talking about those and these tour threads would be a lot livelier and more exciting to participate in. But that stuff just doesn't happen anymore. And it's by choice.
Nicely done. I've always been a fan of more improv. But I'm a King Crimson fan so...
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And, for me, that's where allowances can be made. Bruce is doing way more, waaaaay more, in a show than just standing there and singing. Same reason why Geddy, even though he ended up sounding worse than a strangled cat, also got a pass.
I, of course, add that Bruce's performance is obviously stratospherically better than Geddy's ended up being.
Geddy really shouldn't me mentioned as a naturally talented vocalist. He put a lot of work into it and came a long way with the energy, sincerity and passion. (One of the reasons I love the guy.)
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This is an amazing stage production and the show itself I would say was better than the Distant Memories tour.
AMAZING production? Really? I've seen MUCH BETTER "production" from cover bands!
I'd prefer the band not be a slave to their production but obviously they don't feel that way. I've experienced just about all that could have been experienced with this band so I really can't complain too much about it.
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This is an amazing stage production and the show itself I would say was better than the Distant Memories tour.
AMAZING production? Really? I've seen MUCH BETTER "production" from cover bands!
I'd prefer the band not be a slave to their production but obviously they don't feel that way. I've experienced just about all that could have been experienced with this band so I really can't complain too much about it.
Yeah, their current tour production is nothing special and I also wish they didn't become a "slave" to it via backing tracks to time with video/lighting. They do have nice big screens, but it's really not anything above and beyond what bands tour with on their level. The videos work well with the music, but if they dropped it all and just performed, I don't think it would impact my experience.
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This is an amazing stage production and the show itself I would say was better than the Distant Memories tour.
AMAZING production? Really? I've seen MUCH BETTER "production" from cover bands!
I'd prefer the band not be a slave to their production but obviously they don't feel that way. I've experienced just about all that could have been experienced with this band so I really can't complain too much about it.
Yeah, their current tour production is nothing special and I also wish they didn't become a "slave" to it via backing tracks to time with video/lighting. They do have nice big screens, but it's really not anything above and beyond what bands tour with on their level. The videos work well with the music, but if they dropped it all and just performed, I don't think it would impact my experience.
I am not saying it's the best stage production I have ever seen. I just enjoyed the stage production enough to consider it an amazing Dream Theater show. I saw this tour from two different spots, right up in the front three rows, and the balcony about mid-way from the top. It was neat seeing the differences, there were things I could not see up close that were enhanced by sitting in the balcony. Sitting further, you get to see the entire stage and see the entire stage production unfold, even the light designs that appear on the stage floor and move certain ways. I enjoyed those moments, and I enjoyed how in time the lights are thanks to them being set to the click.
Although, I would love if the band would forgo the video screen and the stage production for one tour that is not an anniversary, and just go all out with the setlist rotations.
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This is an amazing stage production and the show itself I would say was better than the Distant Memories tour.
AMAZING production? Really? I've seen MUCH BETTER "production" from cover bands!
I've seen a lot of strange takes on this board, but that one makes NO sense to me.
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Well, it's as hyperbolic as the comment it was quoting. Maybe that was the point.
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I guess if you were to consider such touring acts like Roger Waters as a cover band, then it's true.
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Their current show looks like a good production considering the scale, but it obviously cannot compete with some you seen in arenas, or come close to those you see in stadiums. You have to look at it in relative terms.
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I've seen some youtube stuff of the recent tours but none of the production looks terribly interesting or impressive.
Can anyone show me a youtube video or something to show me this impressive stage production? Maybe I just picked the wrong videos thus far.
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Impressive production on this past European tour? The London show looks ok but nowhere near impressive. If I have to be critical, I don't like the way the backdrops are arranged. They have multiple smaller screens in the background but are placed in alternated positions in two rows. The video projected on them looked cut out and not sharp at all. The only impressive thing is they time the video and the live performance to the dot, but that's like the industry standard these days, I guess?
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Their current show looks like a good production considering the scale, but it obviously cannot compete with some you seen in arenas, or come close to those you see in stadiums. You have to look at it in relative terms.
I may have mentioned Roger Waters but my comments regarding the show not being impressive were meant in comparison to similar bands/venues.
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Okay guys, I was wrong and the stage production is horrible and the worst thing they've ever done. They should just do away with the stage production all together and just play music with jams, and play those GA venues... :\ :\
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Simple though it was, I think my favorite DT stage setup was when they had that weirdly shaped screen on the Six Degrees tour. Nothing super elaborate, but it always sticks in my memory.
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I thought the Along For The Ride tour had a great stage setup. :tup
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Okay guys, I was wrong and the stage production is horrible and the worst thing they've ever done. They should just do away with the stage production all together and just play music with jams, and play those GA venues... :\ :\
Ooh, yes please! :biggrin:
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I'm not a production-over-music guy. Quite the opposite. I liked the videos in London syncing up, tho. Cool effect.
Big bands I've seen with huge screens (the killers, u2, etc) also generate a really cool effect but I don't remember a lot of synced parts.
DT could drop the click (not again - this guys obsessed!), make things more human and improv, and still have cool video elements at the back. Morphing/undulating rather than synced to specific moments. You can still have someone trigger certain effects at certain points. I remember reading that Meshuggah have a guy who does a crap ton of lighting work throughout their whole set, so a handful of specific moments doesn't seem like an impossible ask.
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Impressive production on this past European tour? The London show looks ok but nowhere near impressive. If I have to be critical, I don't like the way the backdrops are arranged. They have multiple smaller screens in the background but are placed in alternated positions in two rows. The video projected on them looked cut out and not sharp at all. The only impressive thing is they time the video and the live performance to the dot, but that's like the industry standard these days, I guess?
I agree, to me the concept of the screens was interesting, but it just doesn't work unless you are seated dead centre.
In the Birmingham show I attended, the video also looked quite out of focus.
Some of the video choices were a bit odd too. Most striking was AVFTTOTW title track, which, when the quiet section came, had underwater shots of diving, fish and whatnot. I had always envisioned this as the "peak" of the song, being on top of the "mountain", observing the view and contemplating before the "blind descent", which connects to the lyrics. The concert video really took me out of that imagery I had formed my head and I actually had to look away it was so distracting.
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Impressive production on this past European tour? The London show looks ok but nowhere near impressive. If I have to be critical, I don't like the way the backdrops are arranged. They have multiple smaller screens in the background but are placed in alternated positions in two rows. The video projected on them looked cut out and not sharp at all. The only impressive thing is they time the video and the live performance to the dot, but that's like the industry standard these days, I guess?
I agree, to me the concept of the screens was interesting, but it just doesn't work unless you are seated dead centre.
In the Birmingham show I attended, the video also looked quite out of focus.
Some of the video choices were a bit odd too. Most striking was AVFTTOTW title track, which, when the quiet section came, had underwater shots of diving, fish and whatnot. I had always envisioned this as the "peak" of the song, being on top of the "mountain", observing the view and contemplating before the "blind descent", which connects to the lyrics. The concert video really took me out of that imagery I had formed my head and I actually had to look away it was so distracting.
Now that is fascinating...How a video was odd for you because it didn't fit into what you imagined or thought that part of the song meant.
For me, I didn't understand that part of AVFTTOTW until I saw the video live. It all made sense to me right there. Why the music is slowed down, the lyrics, and the build-up to the instrumental.
"Returning to the womb" means diving deep into the womb of the Earth. The music being a slow a tempo gives the feeling of how it feels being in the water. And then the build-up to the instrumental I now see as returning to the surface, taking in a deep breath of air, as you see the human flying squirrel zip by, and the scene transitions as the song transitions into the last section.
This entire song is about humans taking risks that will likely kill them, but humans accomplish the task and realize the impossible is never out of reach. The message is that humans take risks that will end up killing them, but taking these risks is also how humans have achieved greatness.
When I look at the setlists for this tour, most of the songs are related to that theme of taking risks with beneficial rewards, or breaking barriers to overcome the impossible.
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When I look at the setlists for this tour, most of the songs are related to that theme of taking risks with beneficial rewards, or breaking barriers to overcome the impossible.
Right, but I don’t think the dude in Count of Tuscany was adventure seeking in anyway, lol.
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Okay guys, I was wrong and the stage production is horrible and the worst thing they've ever done. They should just do away with the stage production all together and just play music with jams, and play those GA venues... :\ :\
Yes. This. Maybe get some life and energy back into the shows!
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When I look at the setlists for this tour, most of the songs are related to that theme of taking risks with beneficial rewards, or breaking barriers to overcome the impossible.
Right, but I don’t think the dude in Count of Tuscany was adventure seeking in anyway, lol.
But he did take the risk of getting into his car and going for a drive, letting him be his guide. He took that risk and the reward was him being able to tell the story of The Count of Tuscany...Yeah!!!! :biggrin:
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Okay guys, I was wrong and the stage production is horrible and the worst thing they've ever done. They should just do away with the stage production all together and just play music with jams, and play those GA venues... :\ :\
Yes. This. Maybe get some life and energy back into the shows!
I was half-joking with that post.
The closest they got was the I&W&B tour. Without any video screens and a much more scaled down stage production, they were able to make a stop here. I don't see it likely they will come back without another anniversary type of tour, but the chances of promoters being able to book the band would still be higher due to the venue being able to accommodate their scaled down production.
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AVFTTOTW - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJxsj51d-Pk
That's what I got from the song. What I was reminded of.
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I have to say, this story about DT production being big has never convinced me.
If we look at the personell involved, is not anywhere near to what a tour like Chaos in Motion used to be.
Of course, among all the things that have changed over the last 15 years one is for sure technology.
A lot of elements used to be controlled, almost live, by human beings, whereas now those are almost all automatized. Among these are videos. And the syncronization between those and the music - both that is being played by the band and that one is going on in the background - which has not only vocals... - and the light show, is basically what is preventing DT from doing anything but playing exactly like in the record.
But in the end, i think it all comes down to what Bosk said: this is how, whatever the circumstances, they want - for a number of reasons, i guess - to present their show.
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Well, that JP interview that javidt posted (thanks for that!!) was very revealing. Petrucci almost sounded tired and depressed when asked about how they use to rotate the set lists, making me think he never liked doing that, so it just doesn't feel realistic that they would do it ever again, since the one guy in the band who liked doing it, Mike Portnoy, is no longer in the band. I think Petrucci is selling himself and the band a little short when talking about how the performances (slight paraphrasing here on my part) weren't up to snuff due to having to pull a song out of the hat on whim, as I don't think I ever heard a DT song played where I thought they needed more practice, but the players themselves will always hear it a little differently than the listeners will, and at their ages, I totally get why they don't want to have 94 songs constantly rehearsed on the off chance that they might decide to play any of them one night. What they are doing now works for who they are now and what they want, even if it might seem boring and predictable to some fans.
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Yeah, there's no reason to think the different sets each night will ever come back, but for DOT tour they rotated one song and for ADTOE tour they rotated a couple (can't remember 2 or 3?). I think something like this is a lot more doable and would give some pleasure to that part of the fan base that enjoys the different sets. And even the NA leg of the I&W&B tour they adding and removed a couple of the rare b-sides. That's exciting when it happens and gives a little spark to the hardcare fans such as ourselves.
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I can see why it'd be tough to keep that many songs on the ready at your fingertips but when I saw DT back then it felt like a band experience versus now it feels more like a production. I'm sure it's more a 'me' thing than a DT thing but there was an element of "what are they going to play next?" back in those days that I miss.
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I can see why it'd be tough to keep that many songs on the ready at your fingertips but when I saw DT back then it felt like a band experience versus now it feels more like a production. I'm sure it's more a 'me' thing than a DT thing but there was an element of "what are they going to play next?" back in those days that I miss.
I can understand that. I guess it doesn't have to be all or nothing. They could have a few songs they rotate in or out throughout the tour.
And adjust the stage production so they're not playing to a click, obvs. I'm aware some are really uninterested in the click, but losing it would mean human-controlled tempo and could mean spontaneity and improv.
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If it was me I'd like it if they lost the click. I know it makes life a lot easier for everyone but at times it feels like they are playing to a click versus each other. You can still have amazing shows and production without a click, I saw Tool last year and it was one of the best show I've seen. No click and they rotate a couple of tracks from city to city.
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If it was me I'd like it if they lost the click. I know it makes life a lot easier for everyone but at times it feels like they are playing to a click versus each other. You can still have amazing shows and production without a click, I saw Tool last year and it was one of the best show I've seen. No click and they rotate a couple of tracks from city to city.
The Winery Dogs were so good live because of how you can see them communicate with each other on stage as they go in and out of their jams during songs. It feels organic and not mechanic.
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That's actually a big reason I want to see them, after seeing videos online (including yours) I want to see a band play like that.
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If it was me I'd like it if they lost the click. I know it makes life a lot easier for everyone but at times it feels like they are playing to a click versus each other. You can still have amazing shows and production without a click, I saw Tool last year and it was one of the best show I've seen. No click and they rotate a couple of tracks from city to city.
The Winery Dogs were so good live because of how you can see them communicate with each other on stage as they go in and out of their jams during songs. It feels organic and not mechanic.
They were indeed very good. There were more noticeable mistakes but its just a different style. DT is more mechanical and will always be that thankfully.
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If it was me I'd like it if they lost the click. I know it makes life a lot easier for everyone but at times it feels like they are playing to a click versus each other. You can still have amazing shows and production without a click, I saw Tool last year and it was one of the best show I've seen. No click and they rotate a couple of tracks from city to city.
The Winery Dogs were so good live because of how you can see them communicate with each other on stage as they go in and out of their jams during songs. It feels organic and not mechanic.
They were indeed very good. There were more noticeable mistakes but its just a different style. DT is more mechanical and will always be that thankfully.
I'm definitely not a fan because of "mechanical"-ness, fwiw. Would love to see them dial that down and bring up "natural"-ness instead.
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If it was me I'd like it if they lost the click. I know it makes life a lot easier for everyone but at times it feels like they are playing to a click versus each other. You can still have amazing shows and production without a click, I saw Tool last year and it was one of the best show I've seen. No click and they rotate a couple of tracks from city to city.
The Winery Dogs were so good live because of how you can see them communicate with each other on stage as they go in and out of their jams during songs. It feels organic and not mechanic.
They were indeed very good. There were more noticeable mistakes but its just a different style. DT is more mechanical and will always be that thankfully.
I'm definitely not a fan because of "mechanical"-ness, fwiw. Would love to see them dial that down and bring up "natural"-ness instead.
Same for me, although I wouldn't say mechanical, but more rigid. DT always has been more mechanical both in the studio and live, but with MP there was more spontaneity live; since he's been gone, their lives shows have been much more rigid, and IMO, too much. And I say that not just because of the static setlists, but because everything is glued to the click track.
At least they've finally gotten rid of the canned backing vocals, so there's always hope that one day they'll stop relying so much on the click, and maybe even start having A and B setlists like on the Dramatic tour, which I thought was a reasonable middle ground between the rotating setlists did and the static setlists of today.
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It's a funny one because the technical aspect of the band is obvs one of the attractions, and seeing them play incredibly well in front of you is amazing, and doing so without a metronome is mind blowing.
But once you tie that to a click it pushes it too far, imo. There are countless videos of people shredding to metronomes online but it's not the display I want from my favourite artists.
(Although to contradict myself, seeing them play in London -to a click - has totally reawakened my love for the band.)
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If it was me I'd like it if they lost the click. I know it makes life a lot easier for everyone but at times it feels like they are playing to a click versus each other. You can still have amazing shows and production without a click, I saw Tool last year and it was one of the best show I've seen. No click and they rotate a couple of tracks from city to city.
The Winery Dogs were so good live because of how you can see them communicate with each other on stage as they go in and out of their jams during songs. It feels organic and not mechanic.
They were indeed very good. There were more noticeable mistakes but its just a different style. DT is more mechanical and will always be that thankfully.
I welcome the mistakes as long as it's not breaking the song. There were definitely mistakes at TWD show I saw, but none ruined the song. I'd say recovering from a mistake is just as impressive as nailing a solo sometimes. I don't need my live performances to be perfect, that's what the album is for. I'd rather it feel as live as possible and for the band to be playing in the moment.
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And, for me, that's where allowances can be made. Bruce is doing way more, waaaaay more, in a show than just standing there and singing. Same reason why Geddy, even though he ended up sounding worse than a strangled cat, also got a pass.
I, of course, add that Bruce's performance is obviously stratospherically better than Geddy's ended up being.
Geddy really shouldn't me mentioned as a naturally talented vocalist. He put a lot of work into it and came a long way with the energy, sincerity and passion. (One of the reasons I love the guy.)
Bruce is my favorite vocalist and does so much as a front man-he's the show master. I love Rush too. What he did as a multli-instumentalist, including as a truly great bass player, is remarkable. When I first heard Rush, I thought his vocals were odd, but I learned to appreciate them over time and after have seeing Rush live many times.
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If it was me I'd like it if they lost the click. I know it makes life a lot easier for everyone but at times it feels like they are playing to a click versus each other. You can still have amazing shows and production without a click, I saw Tool last year and it was one of the best show I've seen. No click and they rotate a couple of tracks from city to city.
The Winery Dogs were so good live because of how you can see them communicate with each other on stage as they go in and out of their jams during songs. It feels organic and not mechanic.
They were indeed very good. There were more noticeable mistakes but its just a different style. DT is more mechanical and will always be that thankfully.
I welcome the mistakes as long as it's not breaking the song. There were definitely mistakes at TWD show I saw, but none ruined the song. I'd say recovering from a mistake is just as impressive as nailing a solo sometimes. I don't need my live performances to be perfect, that's what the album is for. I'd rather it feel as live as possible and for the band to be playing in the moment.
This is me. I love the spontaneity aspect of many shows. I get that not all bands can do that - Maiden, Kiss (though they used to) - but those that can and do, it makes it exciting.
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I love the spontaneity aspect of many shows. I get that not all bands can do that - Maiden, Kiss (though they used to) - but those that can and do, it makes it exciting.
I hate to sound all Eddie Trunk here, but it's becoming so rare for bands to be completely 100% live with no backing tracks at all. It makes it even more exciting when you see it these days.
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Is DT touring at all this summer??
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Is DT touring at all this summer??
JP has his Guitar Universe thing first week of August, so any touring would need to accommodate for that.
My guess is they will come back to the US in September.
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I can't help but notice that the Jakarta date is listed on the poster as "Last Stop On" Top of the World Tour.
It would very much surprise me if they didn't do a second US leg, but I can't imagine in what other context it would be listed as the "last stop"
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Maybe the second US leg will be marketed as a different tour, I'm not sure that makes it a second leg then. Maybe there is no US tour this year,
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Maybe the second US leg will be marketed as a different tour, I'm not sure that makes it a second leg then. Maybe there is no US tour this year,
Didn't Bosk tease they were planning a co-headlining tour with some unmanned band before the lockdowns hit? Hopefully that ends up happening after all.
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Maybe the second US leg will be marketed as a different tour, I'm not sure that makes it a second leg then. Maybe there is no US tour this year,
Train of Thought's anniversary is this year. I would consider it a top 5 album album for them, and would even consider it their top 3 album in general. It is not my top 3rd album though. They could base a tour around it. I think it'd be neat to combine 6DOIT (the song) for set 1 and the entire TOT album as set 2.
But, if there is nothing planned for the summer/fall, I would not mind either. It would be cool to have the guys tour for their own side projects/solo albums.
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Unfortunately I suspect this is indeed the end of the View world tour. I am very disappointed we didn't get a recording of what was an excellent show, but maybe there will be a different tour in the near future.
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I would love a limited acoustic tour in small theaters. Maybe an acoustic EP.
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I can't help but notice that the Jakarta date is listed on the poster as "Last Stop On" Top of the World Tour.
It would very much surprise me if they didn't do a second US leg, but I can't imagine in what other context it would be listed as the "last stop"
That is very interesting.
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I realize this isn't part of the View tour, but....who else has watched this recently (5:30 mark for the solo) and gotten goosebumps???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRvAPLrZQ0U
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I realize this isn't part of the View tour, but....who else has watched this recently (5:30 mark for the solo) and gotten goosebumps???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRvAPLrZQ0U
That was awesome and yes, JP crushes that solo for sure. James sounds great too!
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I would love a limited acoustic tour in small theaters. Maybe an acoustic EP.
I love this idea.
I'd also love to see them record and write something where the instrumentation leans more that way. Bit of a stripped-down, left-turn challenge.
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I would love a limited acoustic tour in small theaters. Maybe an acoustic EP.
Don't hold your breath.
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I would love a limited acoustic tour in small theaters. Maybe an acoustic EP.
Don't hold your breath.
LOL, yeah don't see that happening anytime soon. Would be cool though!
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It really would be cool if they took the fall to do a different type of tour. Whether that be acoustic, or a club tour.
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I would love a limited acoustic tour in small theaters. Maybe an acoustic EP.
I love this idea.
I'd also love to see them record and write something where the instrumentation leans more that way. Bit of a stripped-down, left-turn challenge.
I would really love that as well. Doesn't need to be a whole album like this, just give us a track or two. Or a new album with many twists and turns. Some stripped down acoustic songs, Heavy aggressive "Glass Prison" type songs, some more proggy songs all on the same album. Sounds like I'm describing 6DOIT disc one lol
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It really would be cool if they took the fall to do a different type of tour. Whether that be acoustic, or a club tour.
Something with a smaller stage production like the I&W&B tour would work for a club tour. And I think it'd be better if they ditched the click for this type of tour at least, since there wouldn't really be a need for it if the stage production is smaller. My guess is that they only utilize the click for the synchronization of the video, lights, and the music, which makes for a tighter stage production.
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I would love a limited acoustic tour in small theaters. Maybe an acoustic EP.
I love this idea.
I'd also love to see them record and write something where the instrumentation leans more that way. Bit of a stripped-down, left-turn challenge.
I would really love that as well. Doesn't need to be a whole album like this, just give us a track or two. Or a new album with many twists and turns. Some stripped down acoustic songs, Heavy aggressive "Glass Prison" type songs, some more proggy songs all on the same album. Sounds like I'm describing 6DOIT disc one lol
That's a great idea - and a great album! ;D
The acoustic part wouldn't have to even be typical acoustic music, you know? Something crazy and DT but on acoustic instruments.
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I would love a limited acoustic tour in small theaters. Maybe an acoustic EP.
I love this idea.
I'd also love to see them record and write something where the instrumentation leans more that way. Bit of a stripped-down, left-turn challenge.
I would really love that as well. Doesn't need to be a whole album like this, just give us a track or two. Or a new album with many twists and turns. Some stripped down acoustic songs, Heavy aggressive "Glass Prison" type songs, some more proggy songs all on the same album. Sounds like I'm describing 6DOIT disc one lol
That's a great idea - and a great album! ;D
The acoustic part wouldn't have to even be typical acoustic music, you know? Something crazy and DT but on acoustic instruments.
Yes, that would be awesome. Let's try to get more fans to get on board with this, and maybe the band will notice. I'm calling for a 6DOIT disc 1 type album - that would feature acoustic, balls to the wall heavy and proggy songs all on the same album!
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I would love a limited acoustic tour in small theaters. Maybe an acoustic EP.
I love this idea.
I'd also love to see them record and write something where the instrumentation leans more that way. Bit of a stripped-down, left-turn challenge.
I would really love that as well. Doesn't need to be a whole album like this, just give us a track or two. Or a new album with many twists and turns. Some stripped down acoustic songs, Heavy aggressive "Glass Prison" type songs, some more proggy songs all on the same album. Sounds like I'm describing 6DOIT disc one lol
That's a great idea - and a great album! ;D
The acoustic part wouldn't have to even be typical acoustic music, you know? Something crazy and DT but on acoustic instruments.
Yes, that would be awesome. Let's try to get more fans to get on board with this, and maybe the band will notice. I'm calling for a 6DOIT disc 1 type album - that would feature acoustic, balls to the wall heavy and proggy songs all on the same album!
I haven't thought about "An Evening with John Petrucci & Jordan Rudess" from 2000 in years. But, it used to be one of my favorite instrumental albums. These comments brought back that album's memory. I'd absolutely love an acoustic DT performance. Get Mangini some 10 pound hot rods, JM a 7 string acoustic bass and we're off to the races.
-Tof
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I would love a limited acoustic tour in small theaters. Maybe an acoustic EP.
Don't hold your breath.
Probably this
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I would love a limited acoustic tour in small theaters. Maybe an acoustic EP.
Don't hold your breath.
Probably this
I second that... but then again, I wouldn't mind listening to an acoustic version of Octavarium
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Just out of curiosity though... Why do you think DT would be opposed to an acoustic show?
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Just out of curiosity though... Why do you think DT would be opposed to an acoustic show?
If past performance is the best predictor of future performance, then I'd say the band's lack of an acoustic performance in this century (correct me if I'm wrong) is probably the biggest reason we won't see an acoustic show.
Plus, despite the interest from the seven of us posting on this thread, I do not think an acoustic tour would be well-attended. A 'one-off' show, on the other hand, is probably a measured success if they pick the right city.
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I have little interest in seeing a DT acoustic show. These guys are prog rockers! They are known for high octane epic concerts. I could see them doing an acoustic song or two, but a not a whole show. That is not their identity.
Please no!
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I have little interest in seeing a DT acoustic show. These guys are prog rockers! They are known for high octane epic concerts. I could see them doing an acoustic song or two, but a not a whole show. That is not their identity.
Please no!
My point exactly!
That said, I would love a 'one off' filmed for release.
The genius of the Rotterdam show back in the day was the liberal use of the term 'unplugged.' If anything, it was more just an excuse to play the lesser-represented songs.
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Just out of curiosity though... Why do you think DT would be opposed to an acoustic show?
I think for better or worse DT are stuck in their ways. With MP out the picture I highly doubt they'll do anything past the standard set list which consist of some new track, some old tracks usually centered around whatever anniversary an album is celebrating, and maybe a few extended sections in songs.
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I have little interest in seeing a DT acoustic show. These guys are prog rockers! They are known for high octane epic concerts. I could see them doing an acoustic song or two, but a not a whole show. That is not their identity.
Please no!
This!
Also, they did have an acoustic section of the set for the ADTOE tour.
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Just out of curiosity though... Why do you think DT would be opposed to an acoustic show?
If they wanted to do it, they would have done it.
Such a thing doesn't seem to fit into their business plan.
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I have little interest in seeing a DT acoustic show. These guys are prog rockers! They are known for high octane epic concerts. I could see them doing an acoustic song or two, but a not a whole show. That is not their identity.
Please no!
This!
Also, they did have an acoustic section of the set for the ADTOE tour.
I would not mind that at all again.
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Tbh, I'm more interested in new material with a twist on the existing instrumentation. Acoustic or clean. Kinda how Devin did it on Ki. But with DT's technical jazz fusion leanings. Would be amazing!
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Another mini acoustic set within a longer traditional set would be a cool compromise.
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Another mini acoustic set within a longer traditional set would be a cool compromise.
Only if they do something interesting with that spot. If it's just The Silent Man or similar to what they've done before, I'd rather they do two normal songs.
The intrigue of a full acoustic show would be that they'd have to do acoustic versions of songs that they haven't done to fill the set. It would make it very interesting for someone like myself who has seen the band 20 times.
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I have little interest in seeing a DT acoustic show. These guys are prog rockers! They are known for high octane epic concerts. I could see them doing an acoustic song or two, but a not a whole show. That is not their identity.
Please no!
This!
Third!
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It's not an acoustic show but a more intimate and 'quieter' show would probably just be something similar to the Evening with JP and JR album, which was totally awesome and I would want to see. But as for an acoustic show with the entire band playing DT tunes...ain't happening. I would like an acoustic performance of a song as a one-off, but for every fan who loved an acoustic version, there would be 10 who were disappointed they didn't play the regular version.
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I would love a mini acoustic set like this in the middle of a normal show. It would even let them sneak in a short rarity:
Innocence Faded
Cover My Eyes
Solitary Shell
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I have little interest in seeing a DT acoustic show. These guys are prog rockers! They are known for high octane epic concerts. I could see them doing an acoustic song or two, but a not a whole show. That is not their identity.
Please no!
With all due respect, posts like this make me sad.
Yes, heaven forbid the band do something different. It's no wonder that so many prog bands are afraid to stray too far from their box, because they know most fans just want more of the same old, same old. Doesn't seem very progressive, does it?
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:lol Dream Theater are many things but I'm not sure I'd call them high octane. Mid tier octane at best.
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:lol Dream Theater are many things but I'm not sure I'd call them high octane. Mid tier octane at best.
:rollin thought the same thing when I read it but didn't want to say it
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I'd definitely much prefer to see them take a break in the middle of a longer set to do a few acoustic tracks a-la Dramatic Tour of Events than a full acoustic set. That being said, it's more because I prefer variation than because I think Dream Theater are high octane. Maybe if we were discussing At the Drive In, I could see that take carrying a bit more weight :lol
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Well, looks like Australia gets skipped while Indonesia gets a second show. Seems fair…
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Well, looks like Australia gets skipped while Indonesia gets a second show. Seems fair…
At least you guys got then in the MM era, they haven't played here since 2010 (their first and only).
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Well, looks like Australia gets skipped while Indonesia gets a second show. Seems fair…
At least you guys got then in the MM era, they haven't played here since 2010 (their first and only).
Where are you from?
I'd second the opinion that bands are afraid from trying something new because of the potential backlash. This is why we'll probably keep getting Dream-Theater-by-numbers albums since The Astonishing didn't do too well.
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Well, looks like Australia gets skipped while Indonesia gets a second show. Seems fair…
At least you guys got then in the MM era, they haven't played here since 2010 (their first and only).
Where are you from?
I'd second the opinion that bands are afraid from trying something new because of the potential backlash. This is why we'll probably keep getting Dream-Theater-by-numbers albums since The Astonishing didn't do too well.
I think there is a desire within the fan-base to do an album that is not exactly like the last 3 of 4. I think the only thing that differentiated DT12, DOT and View was song length. It doesn't have to be an off-the-wall idea or something way different from the band's core style. I just think that if DT16 is extremely similar, it is going to be a little disappointing for some including me.
If TA didn't do well, it doesn't mean don't ever do anything even remotely different. It just means don't do DT on Broadway. They took a big risk and while some like it, as you point out, it fell flat with others. They've done different things before and it's worked in the long run.
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I love The Astonishing, but I think restricting it to just John and Jordan in the creative department and leaving the other three guys out of the process was a mistake.
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I love The Astonishing, but I think restricting it to just John and Jordan in the creative department and leaving the other three guys out of the process was a mistake.
Why? Not every song or album has to be a full band effort in the writing process. JP and JR had an idea and ran with it.
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I'd say because the last 2 albums were much better with everyone involved in the writing process.
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I think the other guys could have injected some extra energy into the album. Or shared some cool ideas, or voiced some concerns if they had them. They may have recognized the potential for some cool moments that might have been missed with just two creative minds shaping the entire two disc album.
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I think the other guys could have injected some extra energy into the album. Or shared some cool ideas, or voiced some concerns if they had them. They may have recognized the potential for some cool moments that might have been missed with just two creative minds shaping the entire two disc album.
Since it's a JP idea and vision, the guys obviously did not have a problem with letting him have the reins and work out the musical side of it. What JR and JP worked on were the themes for the characters, or more so, the overall musical themes to be presented, such as what I call "The Path That Divides Theme" or the "Brothers" theme. The love and connection between Gabriel and Faythe also has a theme, this is heard in Act of Faythe/Savior In The Square, Chosen, and Losing Faythe.
I will also say that JM, MM, and JLB do inject energy into the songs. the blast beat jazz section comes to mind. The way the drums and bass work with the music provides a nice texture to the compositions. They blend so well musically that you won't know it unless you pay attention to each instrument.
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I think the other guys could have injected some extra energy into the album. Or shared some cool ideas, or voiced some concerns if they had them. They may have recognized the potential for some cool moments that might have been missed with just two creative minds shaping the entire two disc album.
Why would you think that didn't happen?
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I seem to remember some interview where Mike expressed disappointment that he didn't have more time to work on the drum parts. And it is fully possible the other guys did share some input on the album, I've just always assumed they weren't very involved, like John and Jordan wrote the whole thing and just presented it as a nearly finished product.
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I think the other guys could have injected some extra energy into the album. Or shared some cool ideas, or voiced some concerns if they had them. They may have recognized the potential for some cool moments that might have been missed with just two creative minds shaping the entire two disc album.
Since it's a JP idea and vision, the guys obviously did not have a problem with letting him have the reins and work out the musical side of it. What JR and JP worked on were the themes for the characters, or more so, the overall musical themes to be presented, such as what I call "The Path That Divides Theme" or the "Brothers" theme. The love and connection between Gabriel and Faythe also has a theme, this is heard in Act of Faythe/Savior In The Square, Chosen, and Losing Faythe.
I will also say that JM, MM, and JLB do inject energy into the songs. the blast beat jazz section comes to mind. The way the drums and bass work with the music provides a nice texture to the compositions. They blend so well musically that you won't know it unless you pay attention to each instrument.
Not to mention there are so many creative bass bits and pieces all over the place. John Myung really knows how to find a good spot for a nice bass lick.
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I seem to remember some interview where Mike expressed disappointment that he didn't have more time to work on the drum parts. And it is fully possible the other guys did share some input on the album, I've just always assumed they weren't very involved, like John and Jordan wrote the whole thing and just presented it as a nearly finished product.
I don't think you're wrong. I thought James had a little give and take though.
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Well, looks like Australia gets skipped while Indonesia gets a second show. Seems fair…
At least you guys got then in the MM era, they haven't played here since 2010 (their first and only).
Where are you from?
Lima, Peru. Compared to us, and other SA countries, Australia is a concerts parade :rollin
I seem to remember some interview where Mike expressed disappointment that he didn't have more time to work on the drum parts. And it is fully possible the other guys did share some input on the album, I've just always assumed they weren't very involved, like John and Jordan wrote the whole thing and just presented it as a nearly finished product.
IIRC, he was disappointed that he had only contributed to the writing of one out of three (at the time) albums with him in the band. He also talked about improvising the drum parts on the spot because of how the timeline was for the whole thing.
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I seem to remember some interview where Mike expressed disappointment that he didn't have more time to work on the drum parts. And it is fully possible the other guys did share some input on the album, I've just always assumed they weren't very involved, like John and Jordan wrote the whole thing and just presented it as a nearly finished product.
I think you're probably right that they weren't very involved. At the very least, their involvement was far less than other DT records because they're playing far less on TA. This is why the record would have been received a lot better if it were released as a side project; expectations would have been better managed.
Looking forward to DT16, I want to hear more input from MM and JM, especially MM. I think they have a lot more to say in terms of lyrics and songwriting than we are currently hearing. Where they've contributed the root idea of a riff or a song, the results have been really great. I am thinking of the main riffs from Pale Blue Dot, Untethered Angel and lyrics from Room 137.
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I seem to remember some interview where Mike expressed disappointment that he didn't have more time to work on the drum parts. And it is fully possible the other guys did share some input on the album, I've just always assumed they weren't very involved, like John and Jordan wrote the whole thing and just presented it as a nearly finished product.
I think you're probably right that they weren't very involved. At the very least, their involvement was far less than other DT records because they're playing far less on TA. This is why the record would have been received a lot better if it were released as a side project; expectations would have been better managed.
Looking forward to DT16, I want to hear more input from MM and JM, especially MM. I think they have a lot more to say in terms of lyrics and songwriting than we are currently hearing. Where they've contributed the root idea of a riff or a song, the results have been really great. I am thinking of the main riffs from Pale Blue Dot, Untethered Angel and lyrics from Room 137.
Have you seen some of the reactions to Mangini's one major contribution?
Room 137 is all Mangini, he came up with a lot of things and I am sure he was happy the band let him work his ideas with the band. This was after The Astonishing, where he supposedly felt like he wasn't contributing as much as he would like to.
JM also contributed S2N, that was his riff idea.
The Astonishing was a one off project of an idea entirely proposed by JP. He already had ideas for it, how he wanted it to sound, how he wanted to present this production. Again, does Myung know how to write melodies, does he know how to arrange songs, does he even want to contribute this much time and energy into writing, rather than spending that time and energy with his family or doing what he desires in life. Same with Mangini.
If he really wanted to JP could've easily formed a new project group, but even at that, the logistics and legalities behind that are, more than likely in the end, not worth the effort. Especially when you have fellow bandmates who are more than capable of making this idea come to fruition.
My only complaint about The Astonishing is it's a Rock Opera, and for my own selfishness, Rock Operas sound a lot better when the characters are voiced by different people, doing this adds a ton to the emotion and overall character development.
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I seem to remember some interview where Mike expressed disappointment that he didn't have more time to work on the drum parts. And it is fully possible the other guys did share some input on the album, I've just always assumed they weren't very involved, like John and Jordan wrote the whole thing and just presented it as a nearly finished product.
I think you're probably right that they weren't very involved. At the very least, their involvement was far less than other DT records because they're playing far less on TA. This is why the record would have been received a lot better if it were released as a side project; expectations would have been better managed.
Looking forward to DT16, I want to hear more input from MM and JM, especially MM. I think they have a lot more to say in terms of lyrics and songwriting than we are currently hearing. Where they've contributed the root idea of a riff or a song, the results have been really great. I am thinking of the main riffs from Pale Blue Dot, Untethered Angel and lyrics from Room 137.
Have you seen some of the reactions to Mangini's one major contribution?
Room 137 is all Mangini, he came up with a lot of things and I am sure he was happy the band let him work his ideas with the band. This was after The Astonishing, where he supposedly felt like he wasn't contributing as much as he would like to.
JM also contributed S2N, that was his riff idea.
The Astonishing was a one off project of an idea entirely proposed by JP. He already had ideas for it, how he wanted it to sound, how he wanted to present this production. Again, does Myung know how to write melodies, does he know how to arrange songs, does he even want to contribute this much time and energy into writing, rather than spending that time and energy with his family or doing what he desires in life. Same with Mangini.
If he really wanted to JP could've easily formed a new project group, but even at that, the logistics and legalities behind that are, more than likely in the end, not worth the effort. Especially when you have fellow bandmates who are more than capable of making this idea come to fruition.
My only complaint about The Astonishing is it's a Rock Opera, and for my own selfishness, Rock Operas sound a lot better when the characters are voiced by different people, doing this adds a ton to the emotion and overall character development.
I don't think fans generally feel negatively about Room 147's lyrics-- I personally think it's an interesting topic and good lyrical content. I am skeptical as to how much of the melody MM contributed. He almost certainly did not write the main riff that repeats throughout the song.
MM contributed the opening riff in Pale Blue Dot and that riff and song are epic. S2N is also great. That's my point. More of this sort of thing would be very welcome. I don't know if JM and MM just don't want to contribute more. I think MM probably does.
Also I think JM is getting pigeonholed into writing a certain type of lyric and I would like to see him contribute more lyrics that aren't necessarily in the style of LTL, STR, etc.
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MM also brought an early version of the Paralyzed intro riff, was the originator of The Alien, the crazy section after the strings middle section on Illumination Theory, among other things :tup
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Why is all of this Astonishing talk in the Top of the World Tour thread?
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Why is all of this Astonishing talk in the Top of the World Tour thread?
I can tie it in, I wish they would add TA back into the set list! :biggrin:
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Why is all of this Astonishing talk in the Top of the World Tour thread?
I can tie it in, I wish they would add TA back into the set list! :biggrin:
:clap:
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Since we were talking about things we'd like to see from DT for future tours, I'll talk about something I'd love to see them do, but will never happen, really :P
It'd be great to see them do something like Yes' Union tour, were we see all the current + some former members touring together. Again, not gonna happen, but still :lol
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Since we were talking about things we'd like to see from DT for future tours, I'll talk about something I'd love to see them do, but will never happen, really :P
It'd be great to see them do something like Yes' Union tour, were we see all the current + some former members touring together. Again, not gonna happen, but still :lol
It would be cool to see them do like half a set with MP and half set with MM. But, personally, I'm not too interested in anyone else performing with DT from the past. Maybe Kevin Moore, but I feel like he's so disassociated with the band that the interest is probably not quite there anymore. I personally don't care about DS at all so there's also that. Dominici had his moment of return to DT.
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It feels to me inevitable that Mike Portnoy will be featured in some big show with them, maybe for their 40th or 50th anniversary.
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It would be cool to see them do like half a set with MP and half set with MM.
Unless it's DT's last and final show, I can't think of anything worse.
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It would be cool to see them do like half a set with MP and half set with MM.
Unless it's DT's last and final show, I can't think of anything worse.
Half a set with Charlie and Derek?
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Maybe I'm just not paying attention to the right bands, but is this something that other bands do? Just bring back ex members for concerts (much less an entire tour)? I don't see Maiden inviting Beetle Bailey on stage to sing with them or Ripper Owens with Judas Priest.
Yes's Union was a slightly different thing in that it was a merger of two versions of the band with a single member common to both. WDADRu was a pretty unique thing to my knowledge, and it seemed a bit out of place to have Derek there.
Bringing MP back for more than one song, unless it's a last and final show ever (or an RRHOF induction - LOL), would just be a terrible idea that would have no lasting effect, except to send us back to the "which Mike is better?" debate that dominated the first half of the 2010s and which occasionally pops up now.
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I don't think DT have more than 2 world tour left at the level we've been accustomed to in terms of venues and audiences (which are slowly but steadily declining for years now), so i really think we're closer to having MP back in some form.
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It would be cool to see them do like half a set with MP and half set with MM.
Unless it's DT's last and final show, I can't think of anything worse.
Half a set with Charlie and Derek?
:lol yeah thats much worse. I don't see what's so bad about 90 minutes with MP and 90 minutes with MM on some final DT tour or something that's honoring their history. Of course I don't think that's a good idea for the band to do consistently.
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Maybe I'm just not paying attention to the right bands, but is this something that other bands do? Just bring back ex members for concerts (much less an entire tour)? I don't see Maiden inviting Beetle Bailey on stage to sing with them or Ripper Owens with Judas Priest.
Yes's Union was a slightly different thing in that it was a merger of two versions of the band with a single member common to both. WDADRu was a pretty unique thing to my knowledge, and it seemed a bit out of place to have Derek there.
Bringing MP back for more than one song, unless it's a last and final show ever (or an RRHOF induction - LOL), would just be a terrible idea that would have no lasting effect, except to send us back to the "which Mike is better?" debate that dominated the first half of the 2010s and which occasionally pops up now.
I've seen Fate's Warning do this for some one off shows, but nothing for entire tours that I can remember.
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It would be cool to see them do like half a set with MP and half set with MM.
Unless it's DT's last and final show, I can't think of anything worse.
Half a set with Charlie and Derek?
Unless I'm working or traveling I'll always catch DT when it comes through but if Derek is touring with them that will be an immediate pass.
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Didn't they already do the Charlie and Derek thing years ago?
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Didn't they already do the Charlie and Derek thing years ago?
They performed during the When Dream and Day Reunite show in 2004. Charlie did To Live Forever and Met1, and Derek played on Met1 (with an extended instrumental jam/keyboard duel between Derek and JR).
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was it a sensitive and somewhat contentious issue at the time that Derek or Charlie should be allowed back into the band?
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was it a sensitive and somewhat contentious issue at the time that Derek or Charlie should be allowed back into the band?
If I remember rightly, over at MP.com, a) it just wasn't that big a deal really, and b) we generally thought it was pretty cool.
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was it a sensitive and somewhat contentious issue at the time that Derek or Charlie should be allowed back into the band?
They weren't allowed back into the band. It was a one-off, and it was fun, but I never want to see it again.
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Charlie's appearance with Dream Theater that night helped him make three albums I really enjoyed. It's sad he didn't make more music after that.
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was it a sensitive and somewhat contentious issue at the time that Derek or Charlie should be allowed back into the band?
You mean in 2004 at the WDADRu show? No. I don't think anyone (including Charlie) has ever said or though Charlie should return to DT. And, as far as I know, no one has ever seriously suggested anything about Derek returning. WDADRu was just an anniversary show that MP arranged. He also reached out to Kevin Moore to appear and play, but KM ignored the entreaty.
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Charlie's appearance with Dream Theater that night helped him make three albums I really enjoyed. It's sad he didn't make more music after that.
He made quite a bit.
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I would support MP coming onstage to play a song or two on the farewell tour. Outside of that inevitable tour, I see no reason for it to occur. I am quite pleased, to say the least, with the MM acquisition and think everyone including MP has been better off for it musically speaking.
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I have a good feeling this thread will see some activity in the near future ;) :corn
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(https://media.tenor.com/-gS-ft4nRzkAAAAM/interesting-batman.gif)
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I have a good feeling this thread will see some activity in the near future ;) :corn
Why?
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I would support MP coming onstage to play a song or two returning on the farewell tour. Outside of that inevitable tour, I see no reason for it to occur. I am quite pleased, to say the least, with the MM acquisition and think everyone including MP has been better off for it musically speaking.
;)
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I would support MP coming onstage to play a song or two returning on the farewell tour. Outside of that inevitable tour, I see no reason for it to occur. I am quite pleased, to say the least, with the MM acquisition and think everyone including MP has been better off for it musically speaking.
;)
It's over, man lol
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;)
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I've posted this on Official Bootlegs thread, but it makes more sense here.
The AVFTTOTW tour is ending next month, right? So, if DT will release an official live Blu-Ray, they already filmed any show or planning to film one of the next? I didn't see anything about it.
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I hope we get some kind of live album, but it would be a real shame if it didn't feature ALL the songs they played across this tour.
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If it were filmed we would know about it. At this point the only hope is to film one of the remaining venues.
We've had recordings of every tour for over a decade so it would indeed be a shame not to have a record of this, but I feel that is the direction this is going in. Perhaps the band feels that the Rio recording was good enough to suffice - I disagree!
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If it were filmed we would know about it. At this point the only hope is to film one of the remaining venues.
We've had recordings of every tour for over a decade so it would indeed be a shame not to have a record of this, but I feel that is the direction this is going in. Perhaps the band feels that the Rio recording was good enough to suffice - I disagree!
We didn't get a recording of The Astonishing tour and IAWAB (the Japanese TV recording isn't official). Also you are right, the Rio recording is not a good representation of the Top of the World tour at all.
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I almost always prefer to listen to live versions of any band’s music if there’s high quality versions available (with the exception of Chaos in Motion), so even if there’s no official CD/DVD release, I’d be very happy with even a soundboard recording released through LNFA. If they only do it for the second set list of the tour though, I’d be a little sad if they don’t release a live recording of TMoLS; it was incredible live on that tour!
Also, those “spring US dates” that JLB said were possible are clearly not happening so here’s hoping it still happens in the summer/fall!
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They have a show booked at the Budokan not too far from now. Even if they don't plan to record and release it, last time they were there the show got recorded anyway by a Japanene network, so there's hope at least for some pro-shot footage of this show that isn't the RIR thing.
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I have a good feeling this thread will see some activity in the near future ;) :corn
:corn
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I have a good feeling this thread will see some activity in the near future ;) :corn
:corn
(https://media.giphy.com/media/WlHOEPVFDeK0kCwd9o/giphy.gif)
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Well, that post did spark some activity in the thread, didn't it? :P
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I have a good feeling this thread will see some activity in the near future ;) :corn
:corn
(https://media.giphy.com/media/WlHOEPVFDeK0kCwd9o/giphy.gif)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/TzFul3viUIjMBCpDxb/giphy.gif) :corn
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Dreamsonic!
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pre sale today. looking to find code
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Oh, ok. Cool. New North American and Canadian dates. Didn’t want even one DT Down Under date after a second year of View Tour.
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Oh, ok. Cool. New North American and Canadian dates. Didn’t want even one DT Down Under date after a second year of View Tour.
Pro tip: Canada is part of North America.
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Never doubted you for a second, Count!
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Oh, ok. Cool. New North American and Canadian dates. Didn’t want even one DT Down Under date after a second year of View Tour.
Pro tip: Canada is part of North America.
Pro tip, it’s still bullshit!
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There's also a dedicated website
https://dreamsonic.com/
This is actually pretty cool!
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/TzFul3viUIjMBCpDxb/giphy.gif) :corn
(https://media.giphy.com/media/TJrS7r0f6SOthGTiPe/giphy.gif)
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Los Angeles presale code is VINYL. Hope to see you there!
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I will have my 10th DT concert on next May 12th in Jakarta, Indonesia.
Anyone going?
Thanks
-andri-
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The show from 4.28 in Japan is on YouTube - really hoping they keep Sleeping Giant in the setlist for the DreamSonic shows, love this tune
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The show from 4.28 in Japan is on YouTube - really hoping they keep Sleeping Giant in the setlist for the DreamSonic shows, love this tune
Watching now :tup
Most comments on YouTube are about a certain band member's performance, though... :eek
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The show from 4.28 in Japan is on YouTube - really hoping they keep Sleeping Giant in the setlist for the DreamSonic shows, love this tune
Watching now :tup
Most comments on YouTube are about a certain band member's performance, though... :eek
That god damn Myung!
But honestly I skimmed through it a bit and what I heard sounded really rough.
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The show from 4.28 in Japan is on YouTube
Is it a pro shot or something? I'm only finding footage from the audience.
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The show from 4.28 in Japan is on YouTube
Is it a pro shot or something? I'm only finding footage from the audience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5kxqvU5IUQ
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So.... did anyone else get the cute girl talking about poop at the start of that? :) :) :)
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Someone commented James sounds like a chicken in the morning. Which makes me wonder... Do chickens sound different throughout the day?
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I saw couple of videos about the first gig in Korea and he wasn't this bad - he actually was quite good tbh.
Although I understand - and sometimes agree with - the average criticism, people should really calm down about James.
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Someone commented James sounds like a chicken in the morning. Which makes me wonder... Do chickens sound different throughout the day?
I wondered about that as well. :)
He's not bad, but I don't like the yodelly sound he sometimes resorts to. I don't know what that's about.
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Wow, that was brutal.
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Wow, that was brutal.
I'm with you TAC - that was not pleasant to my ears! I couldn't make it through 6:00 I had to turn it off.
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I got through the first chorus of Sleeping Giant and had to shut it off. To call it brutal would be nice. For the 293rd time, JLB is one of my favorite singers ever, but it is painful to hear the current state of his singing. He and the band have the right to keep doing their thing, but to paraphrase Rush's Losing It, I think the bell is tolling for James. :( :(
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I mean he sounded pretty good on Korea dates from what I saw on YT but Japan dates are so bad to say the least.
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it's on par with what i heard in Groningen
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Yikes, but he’s always had “bad days” so nothing new to see here.
First time seeing recording of Answering the Call and Sleeping Giant, they both play live really well.
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James Hetfield and James LaBrie were both born in 1963. Hetfield sounds way better these days, and he’s got a lot more mileage on his voice plus he’s also suffered a vocal injury in the past.
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James Hetfield and James LaBrie were both born in 1963. Hetfield sounds way better these days, and he’s got a lot more mileage on his voice plus he’s also suffered a vocal injury in the past.
Plus Hetfield doesn't get to go backstage and rest during instrumental parts. Or sip hot tea between every verse.
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I saw that Japan clip on YouTube and saw those comments and, what can I say, I give up. I can't stem the tide alone, all those brutal and negative comments aren't going to stop because of one tiny cry in the wilderness in the midst of a tsunami.
James will always be my favorite singer. He literally has the voice of an angel, legit the most beautiful I have ever heard in my life. And this is coming from someone with a long history of studying the voice and being around trained voices.
I still maintain that whatever is going on is technical - ie. vowel modifications, poor ornamentation choices, pushing weight up from the bottom, a raised larynx - in other words, fixable. And for whatever it's worth, I've noticed that the voice he sings with on recordings, even the most recent ones, is his own voice - light, warm, sensitive, flexible - and yet strong and capable. In live settings, though, he tends to push. He brings weight up from the chest, raising his larynx, which is an inevitable crash and burn scenario for any singer but especially for a tenor, almost as if he is trying to fabricate the sound of a larger voice when singing live. And as he is a great singer I know he knows this - voice lessons 101 is literally sing with your own voice, the voice you have, not the voice you wish you did! Coming from the classical world I know there is always a tendency among light or medium voiced singers to want to push and sound like a bigger voice, even among top professioinals. But this often leads to injuries and severe vocal fatigue when a pro is doing this night after night. We don't need it! What I would love to hear is his own voice, light and warm and angelic, on the live stage.
But I'm starting to really fear that there is actually something more seriously wrong.
And I hope I am wrong about that.
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James has always been one of my favorite singers. I'm wondering if he has hearing issues which leads to bad relative pitch? I could see how somebody could go tone deaf after that many years of touring or perhaps a bad mix in the ear monitors. He's got a tough job singing DT material this late in their career. At least he has his good nights .
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The show from 4.28 in Japan is on YouTube
Is it a pro shot or something? I'm only finding footage from the audience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5kxqvU5IUQ
Damn, video taken down.
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A hearing or ear monitor issue may be at play, and if that's the case it certainly can't help but make matters worse. But a lot of the, um.. unfavorable description of his recent sound actually does, and very typically, come from a raised larynx. I believe he's pushing, which leads to getting vocally exhausted and "sung out" (which literally feels like mild laryngitis and leads to the "bloom" on the sound inevitably suffering until rest can be afforded), at which point he starts overcompensating for the fatigue with even more pushing (because by the time you're sung out, that's literally the only way you can get out any considerable sound), a vicious cycle - and through this process, whoops, up pops that larynx! Leading to that, oh how can I say this delicately - rather pinched, squawking sound. 😨
I think he always had the tendency to push in a live setting, any perusal of his live performances between 1992-94 show this, but even at 32 this was dangerous, now especially in midlife he needs to take special care not to fall into this bad old habit, because even if he's doing everything else right (which we know he is), it can affect the health of his voice and the longevity of his career.
That said, if it is a sound issue, I would hope the team does everything in their power to support him.
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The pushing up rather than bridging (and forcing the larynx up) I agree has been a long time issue. Espescially since he's flat a lot and fatigued sounding. He also seems to have some sort of hearing issue. I think most egregious to me is simply; the choices he's making when he does alter the melody simply aren't good. And half the time he gets through an altered melody then forces himself up to a higher note anyway to avoid his switch point between head and chest so he over or undershoots.
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I'd buy the sound thing if it was one show. These things can be fixed at soundchecks. Is it possible that he simply can't sing in a live setting? And I don't ask it to be a dick. He seems to have lost the ability. Like maybe he just physically doesn't have it anymore.
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I think to an extent, most of these speculated issues could be fixed. But it would require acknowledgement of the issues and not just "I'm older now guys gimme a break." It could be a sensitive subject to bring up but I really wish someone in the band would or rather, I wish we saw the results of that. It's a bummer.
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How many shows have they done on this tour now? There is no recurring ear monitor issue every night of the show.
Whatever is going on might be addressable, but I think we should be realistic and accept that this is not due to repeated electronic failures. Bodies change over the decades. The older many musicians get, the less they practice. I am speculating around the some of the most common reasons why someone's performance would start to decline as time goes on, but even though we do not know the exact cause I think it is pretty safe to say that if we are being honest with ourselves, you are hearing what he has left in the tank.
Also want to add the obvious reason why despite the unhappy live performances, the studio recordings still sound totally fine: you have the magic of editing, splicing, and re-takes at your fingertips.
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Also want to add the obvious reason why despite the unhappy live performances, the studio recordings still sound totally fine: you have the magic of editing, splicing, and re-takes at your fingertips.
Totally. Just give me some good albums to listen to.
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I checked out a couple of fan vids. Hmmm.....I don't think this is acceptable anymore.
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I checked out a couple of fan vids. Hmmm.....I don't think this is acceptable anymore.
It’s not, and for further proof see your signature.
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James Hetfield and James LaBrie were both born in 1963. Hetfield sounds way better these days, and he’s got a lot more mileage on his voice plus he’s also suffered a vocal injury in the past.
Plus Hetfield doesn't get to go backstage and rest during instrumental parts. Or sip hot tea between every verse.
He also doesn't sing very challenging songs.
Seriously a terrible comparison
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I checked out a couple of fan vids. Hmmm.....I don't think this is acceptable anymore.
It’s not, and for further proof see your signature.
:lol
Cheers. I know I was one of the ones that really voiced my concerns at the start of this tour but I kind of came around to a lot of the comments on enjoying the experience when you're there and all that stuff and that's fine, I can live with that. But these now seem a step below the level on what he was singing again. This is just plain bad karaoke now.
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Yeah I think the issue now is not even he’s struggling to sing the songs, which we as fans have come to expect and be understanding of, but that he’s not even singing the verses near what the originals sound like. He’s going to hit notes and trying to hit a higher note that is out of key and just sounds worse than if he sang the regular melody. A good example is 6 o clock. He starts by singing “try to shake it UPPPPP, and it just won’t stop - and WOOOOD to chop…” Or in the chorus singing “melody walks through the DAAAAAR….until they finally let it all GOOOOO.”
I don’t know if he has a voice teacher, but the teacher or the guys should step in and say “hey James, for right now just kind of stick to the regular Melody. We can downtune the song and you can change some sections so they are easier, but ease up on the crazy variations to every song.” Maybe just review some of the concert footage/soundboards and give him some helpful feedback or ask if there is anything they can do to make the night easier(downtune/remove tough sections/add an extra instrumental/put in less vocally demanding songs).
Then as he gets a bit more comfortable he could always add them back in. He just needs some help right now and I feel for him. I still think there’s a lot they could do to make his job easier and the performances better. Bridges is a tough song to sing/ Pull Me Under in the original key? Way too tough/ Caught in a Web in the original key? Again that’s way too tough. Put in some easier stuff. Maybe throw in a ballad like This is the Life or songs like Pale Blue Dot/Speak To Me/As I Am/On the Backs of Angels/The Looking Glass/Along for the Ride/Silent Man/Hollow Years/Misunderstood/Panic Attack/Wither/Lost Not Forgotten/OutCry/Breaking All Illusions/Behind the Veil.
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Yeah I think the issue now is not even he’s struggling to sing the songs, which we as fans have come to expect and be understanding of, but that he’s not even singing the verses near what the originals sound like. He’s going to hit notes and trying to hit a higher note that is out of key and just sounds worse than if he sang the regular melody. A good example is 6 o clock. He starts by singing “try to shake it UPPPPP, and it just won’t stop - and WOOOOD to chop…” Or in the chorus singing “melody walks through the DAAAAAR….until they finally let it all GOOOOO.”
I don’t know if he has a voice teacher, but the teacher or the guys should step in and say “hey James, for right now just kind of stick to the regular Melody. We can downtune the song and you can change some sections so they are easier, but ease up on the crazy variations to every song.” Maybe just review some of the concert footage/soundboards and give him some helpful feedback or ask if there is anything they can do to make the night easier(downtune/remove tough sections/add an extra instrumental/put in less vocally demanding songs).
Then as he gets a bit more comfortable he could always add them back in. He just needs some help right now and I feel for him. I still think there’s a lot they could do to make his job easier and the performances better. Bridges is a tough song to sing/ Pull Me Under in the original key? Way too tough. / Caught in a Web in the original key? Again that’s way too tough. Put in some easier stuff. Maybe through in a ballad or Pale Blue Dot/Speak To Me/As I Am/On the backs of Angels/ Looking glass/Along for the Ride/Silent Man/Hollow Years/Misunderstood/Panic Attack/Wither/Lost Not Forgotten/OutCry/Breaking All Illusions/Behind the Veil.
Why are Bridges or Web any more difficult than say Answering the Call or even Pale Blue Dot?
The issues you're referring to are occurring on nearly every song, nearly every night. I just watched some fan footage from the Asia leg and this is basically the same thing as the North America leg. It doesn't seem to matter what song is being sung. It'll be the same on Dreamsonic for sure.
I don't think there is much else to be done short of throwing in a lot more instrumental songs, which is going to piss people off. Even if all of this were made better through song selection, the band cannot scrap half of their discography to try to get a 5% improvement. When they start PMU (by the way isn't this now a half step down?) you can hear the excitement from the fans. Being able to get through most if not all of the band's catalogue is the duty and if now we're saying that he cannot do the job maybe it's time for someone else to step in.
You know what? I really don't think the band cares that much. I don't mean the slightest bit of disrespect by that because I have nothing but respect for my favorite band, but I honestly think they're still having a good time and savoring the moment. It's been 30 years of making music, touring, seeing the world, having people come up to them and kiss the ring. They've made good money (maybe except MM because he's newest) and they genuinely love music. The cherry on top is that all of these guys seem to like each other. So as long as JLB is physically present and fans are coming to shows, they're going to let it ride. I think doing something like axing a bunch of songs outright would actually be more bothersome to JP than having JLB struggle through them.
JP will never pull the plug on JLB regardless of what happens on that stage going forward. Hypothetically speaking he could leave for a coffee during Solitary Shell and moon the crowd during View from the Top...it would not matter one bit to his job security. Now, if this were say MM who could no longer hold time or keep a beat every night, for sure they'd can him. It's not fair but the expectations for the vocal department are a LOT lower because face it: DT is about the crazy instrumentalists and the live version of JLB has been volatile for the better part of 30 years.
God willing we have another 4-5 albums/tours. The shows will be tweaked here and there for refinement but broadly speaking, this is what we are getting until the curtain call. I am trying to make arrangements to see the Dreamsonic show but am under no illusion that he's going to be a new man if they'd just swap in a couple of different tunes, go with a new brand of ear monitors, and get him vocal coaching. The guy is 60 and his body is changing. It is what it is.
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Yeah I think the issue now is not even he’s struggling to sing the songs, which we as fans have come to expect and be understanding of, but that he’s not even singing the verses near what the originals sound like. He’s going to hit notes and trying to hit a higher note that is out of key and just sounds worse than if he sang the regular melody. A good example is 6 o clock. He starts by singing “try to shake it UPPPPP, and it just won’t stop - and WOOOOD to chop…” Or in the chorus singing “melody walks through the DAAAAAR….until they finally let it all GOOOOO.”
I don’t know if he has a voice teacher, but the teacher or the guys should step in and say “hey James, for right now just kind of stick to the regular Melody. We can downtune the song and you can change some sections so they are easier, but ease up on the crazy variations to every song.” Maybe just review some of the concert footage/soundboards and give him some helpful feedback or ask if there is anything they can do to make the night easier(downtune/remove tough sections/add an extra instrumental/put in less vocally demanding songs).
Yes. I've been saying pretty much the same thing for quite a while now. The main problem with James is not that he can't hit high notes or hold long notes or precisely hit pitches or whatever anymore. While all of that does happen, it is to be expected to a certain degree and would not ruin a performance all by itself. The much bigger problem is his poor improv work, randomly changing melodies to a point where they don't sound good at all or don't even work as a segue into the next chord and things like that. And this is very obvious even in the doctored official releases like Distant Memories - while they *can* and do fix his pitch issues after the fact, a badly changed melody is almost impossible to correct.
This is a good example - Fatal Tragedy from the Distant Memories show:
Audience recording:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otm70S2OAhQ
"Corrected" official release:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dau5acQfaww
So at 3:40 (audience recording) you have the "I tried to get more answers" part, which I guess would be considered one of the more challenging vocal parts. It sounds pretty off pitch-wise, but on the official release (2:50) it is cleaned up nicely and sounds just fine. So this is the degree to which a live performance can be improved after the fact.
But the real problem are other things. For example, at 2:40 (audience recording), he needlessly stretches the "without truth" so it lingers on over the following chord. He doesn't hit the targeted pitch too exactly, but it's clear this doesn't really work. So with the note pitch-corrected in the official release (1:50), it still doesn't sound good. It's even worse on the second "without hope" at 4:28 (official: 3:38), with him holding the note longer and the pitch being all over the place on the audience recording.
And really, why does he do this at all? Everyone knows James is struggling with the songs, and I think we would all be open to him adapting/avoiding tricky sections as long as the end result sounds decent, so why does he go out and even add bits like this that are in fact MORE difficult to sing? Because, seriously - this is actually about the opposite of avoiding difficult bits. It's about showing off. Granted, the end result is in no way impressive because he can't actually pull this stuff off, but that is the reasoning behind doing it. And he just shouldn't do that.
And my impression is that after Mike Portnoy left, there's been this sort of "non-aggression pact" within the band where people would be free to do their own thing without having someone point out the flaws. And while the reasoning behind it might be sound, the end result is that you have James mangling melodies of popular songs for no good reason (the 6:00 example mentioned above being another excellent one where he stretches the "I got bases to cover" bit way into the next section, messing things up harmonically) with apparently no one there to flat-out tell him "James, this isn's working". Previously, Portnoy would most likely be "that guy", which likely played a big role in the well-documented tension between the two.
So I really wish there was SOMEone still left in the band who cared about the quality of the live performances enough to take a stand against all this even at the risk of rocking the boat. Because, let's be honest, my personal experience with many DT fans is that James' live performances are a big reason why people avoid DT live gigs these days. And even with all the pitch-correction applied, it's also a reason why their live releases aren't as enjoyable as they otherwise could be. I think most of us can excuse age-related problems, I just wish they would address at least those issues that have nothing do with that.
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I don’t know if he has a voice teacher, but the teacher or the guys should step in and say “hey James, for right now just kind of stick to the regular Melody.
I can't agree more.
Regarding repertoire, I've always wondered why they were using a lot of songs from the Awake era, when the injury happened. Muscle memory is a powerful thing, and songs from when he did a lot of pushing live will still have an element of muscle memory affecting them during current performance. I've seen this happen with opera singers who had learned an aria during their college days and then had to completely rework the technique for that aria with a teacher before they could perform it professionally in a way that is safe and effective. Unless he is also doing that, overwriting bad habits with better technique with the help of a good technical teacher, these songs will continue to create more problems.
I would love to hear some of the songs you listed! Outcry is in my top ten. Another favorite of mine is Forsaken, and I think the soaring lines which require unbroken connection to the breath would be good for him right now.
But the inane, ageist commentary from YouTube is just coming from people who don't know the voice and are just spouting ignorance, and are likely mostly from Americans (I am American, so I can admit this about my own culture right now, sadly) who have a real problem with ageism. I'd like to sit them down at the Met in front of a singer delivering ass-kicking Wagner who is 15+ years older than James and then let them decide. There's no magic number at which a singer is just inevitably "done". That's not scientifically factual. Singing is technical and physical, just as with any other instrument, but the physical side requires technique to be reworked about every ten years with a teacher. If that doesn't happen then yes, the physical changes will get the better of you and professional singing becomes unsustainable. But that's in regards to the simple reality of working with a physical instrument, not because someone just "hits 60" or whatever. With a little diligence with a teacher, he has a lot of years left to serve the music with beauty and power.
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And my impression is that after Mike Portnoy left, there's been this sort of "non-aggression pact" within the band where people would be free to do their own thing without having someone point out the flaws. And while the reasoning behind it might be sound, the end result is that you have James mangling melodies of popular songs for no good reason (the 6:00 example mentioned above being another excellent one where he stretches the "I got bases to cover" bit way into the next section, messing things up harmonically) with apparently one there to flat-out tell him "James, this isn's working". Previously, Portnoy would most likely be "that guy", which likely played a big role in the well-documented tension between the two.
So I really wish there was SOMEone still left in the band who cared about the quality of the live performances enough to take a stand against all this even at the risk of rocking the boat. Because, let's be honest, my personal experience with many DT fans is that James' live performances are a big reason why people avoid DT live gigs these days. And even with all the pitch-correction applied, it's also a reason why their live releases aren't as enjoyable as they otherwise could be. I think most of us can excuse age-related problems, I just wish they would address at least those issues that have nothing do with that.
You summarized my feelings very well on the subject. Ever since The Astonishing days, i have been having the same impression about the way James is handlng his live performances, and how the band is treating this.
I also recall an interview with James where he said that in Distant Memories everything is live, even though the use of pitch correction is more than obvious. Not sure if James is in denial or doesn't really realize how his performances are not what they used to be, but i'm also confident that with some smart choices and maybe some refreshed vocal training he can get back to a better state.
Of course, voice (and the body in general) changes as people get older, nobody expects James to sing as he used to in his 30s. But the current state is a bit disappointing in my opinion.
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Do we have actual proof that they have used "pitch correction"?
Source please?
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Do we have actual proof that they have used "pitch correction"?
Source please?
Kyo just posted above an example.
It's also pretty evident in almost all the songs if you are familiar with how both james sings and how pitch correction sounds especially when there are changes in notes.
https://youtu.be/XwVHh17F9S8?list=PLcVZzx-1v8RYwNDPBQeAXu8fWV5LgD6Go
even in some parts in which he's not too off pitch, there is pitch correction
https://youtu.be/jsRT8ee97eo?t=140
https://youtu.be/Em0zBDji5GY?t=146
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I checked out a couple of fan vids. Hmmm.....I don't think this is acceptable anymore.
Man, you just hit the nail on the head.
I've made no bones about my unabashed affection for JLB over the years. While I won't go so far as to say I've defended him (bc I truly believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion), I've stated on more than one occasion my supportive thoughts regarding his live performances. Bottom line: he's the reason I'm into the band and I've always felt that he made the dozen or so live shows I've attended worth it.
That all said, I've checked in on this tour, and over the past twelve months, I've kinda found myself working through the five stages of grief—denial, anger, bargaining, depression and, now, acceptance.
That all said, DT is rolling through my neck of the woods in a few months, and for the first time in, well, since maybe the Astonishing (big regret there), I'm not going to go.
I'm all for altering melodies and singing in lower keys (hell, my effusive praise of Plant over the years remains my main citation on this point), but man oh man, my dude is just struggling in every sense of the word.
There are a few of you who have done a fantastic job of articulating the 'why,' as well as the 'what' he can do to get better, so I don't really have anything to add on that front. But, as a massive JLB fan, my heart literally sinks a little further with each video I watch, and at this point, I can't justify spending my hard-earned cash on what I'm hearing.
Honestly, if he just sang everything a full octave lower, I'd be so, so happy. I love the dude's mid-range, and really think that he needs to Ray Alder his whole thing, but he clearly has no interest in that (and more power to him).
Sorry for the longish rant, but I've been sitting on these thoughts all weekend, and Wolfking's post really just summed it all up so perfectly.
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I'll say...I don't go to Dream Theater shows just for JLB. For one, I love the music, the lyrics, and themes of the songs they have. While I do think JLB and the Band need to consider this criticism from the fans perspective, it's not going to prevent me from attending any of their shows.
If I really cared that much about a singers live voice, I would not be into a lot of live shows I have seen. There's shows that have growling where it doesn't come across very well in the mix for me, so I can't even understand what they're singing because the words just blend into a garbled grunt.
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I don’t know if he has a voice teacher, but the teacher or the guys should step in and say “hey James, for right now just kind of stick to the regular Melody.
I can't agree more.
Regarding repertoire, I've always wondered why they were using a lot of songs from the Awake era, when the injury happened. Muscle memory is a powerful thing, and songs from when he did a lot of pushing live will still have an element of muscle memory affecting them during current performance. I've seen this happen with opera singers who had learned an aria during their college days and then had to completely rework the technique for that aria with a teacher before they could perform it professionally in a way that is safe and effective. Unless he is also doing that, overwriting bad habits with better technique with the help of a good technical teacher, these songs will continue to create more problems.
I would love to hear some of the songs you listed! Outcry is in my top ten. Another favorite of mine is Forsaken, and I think the soaring lines which require unbroken connection to the breath would be good for him right now.
But the inane, ageist commentary from YouTube is just coming from people who don't know the voice and are just spouting ignorance, and are likely mostly from Americans (I am American, so I can admit this about my own culture right now, sadly) who have a real problem with ageism. I'd like to sit them down at the Met in front of a singer delivering ass-kicking Wagner who is 15+ years older than James and then let them decide. There's no magic number at which a singer is just inevitably "done". That's not scientifically factual. Singing is technical and physical, just as with any other instrument, but the physical side requires technique to be reworked about every ten years with a teacher. If that doesn't happen then yes, the physical changes will get the better of you and professional singing becomes unsustainable. But that's in regards to the simple reality of working with a physical instrument, not because someone just "hits 60" or whatever. With a little diligence with a teacher, he has a lot of years left to serve the music with beauty and power.
To clarify, you're saying you think he's not good every night because of ear monitors and a hearing problem but that it's inane for others to speculate on YouTube that this is age related?
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I'll say...I don't go to Dream Theater shows just for JLB. For one, I love the music, the lyrics, and themes of the songs they have. While I do think JLB and the Band need to consider this criticism from the fans perspective, it's not going to prevent me from attending any of their shows.
Yeah, I can get on board with this. The guys are all still playing their instruments and it's still a sight to behold.
I was actually prepared to sit this tour out. Factors certainly included JLB, because in a way, the band is presenting an inferior product. Also, a potentially shorter set. If they keep AVFTTOTW and TCOT, that's a huge chunk of time being repeated from the last leg. (I do expect them to keep A View). Also, I didn't want to pay a ton of money, nor did I want to drive into downtown Boston, meaning if this was at the Orpheum, I'm not sure I was all that interested.
But I looked at tix during the presale and got good seats at a price I was comfortable with. The venue is down on the waterfront, outdoors, and away from the congestion, with plenty of space to walk around.
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I consider myself a huge JLB defender. He is my all time favourite vocalist and nothing can change that.
His live struggle is obvious. But his asia tour's performances are indefensible. It's like he is not even trying. It's not age, it's not "food poisoning", it's not mic issue... It's etiher you've been done or you've just not tried. It seems to me, JLB himself and the band think no matter what people come to our concert.
I'm not angry towards James and I'm not bashing him. I'm just sad to see my favourite singer like that.
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I consider myself a huge JLB defender. He is my all time favourite vocalist and nothing can change that.
His live struggle is obvious. But his asia tour's performances are indefensible. It's like he is not even trying. It's not age, it's not "food poisoning", it's not mic issue... It's etiher you've been done or you've just not tried. It seems to me, JLB himself and the band think no matter what people come to our concert.
I'm not angry towards James and I'm not bashing him. I'm just sad to see my favourite singer like that.
This is well said and perhaps better sums up the point I was trying to make.
To be clear, JLB isn't the ONLY reason I go to see the band, but, he is a sizable piece of the pie, and it's difficult to wrap my head around what I've seen online.
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I consider myself a huge JLB defender. He is my all time favourite vocalist and nothing can change that.
His live struggle is obvious. But his asia tour's performances are indefensible. It's like he is not even trying. It's not age, it's not "food poisoning", it's not mic issue... It's etiher you've been done or you've just not tried. It seems to me, JLB himself and the band think no matter what people come to our concert.
I'm not angry towards James and I'm not bashing him. I'm just sad to see my favourite singer like that.
This is my stance as well. I doubt anyone gets any joy out of expressing the criticism. As I have said numerous times, I would never have become a fan of this band in 1993 without James, and all my favorite DT albums see JLB's singing as being a major highlight. He is top 3 for me all-time when it comes to singers. I just hate to hear him sounding like this now.
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To clarify, you're saying you think he's not good every night because of ear monitors and a hearing problem but that it's inane for others to speculate on YouTube that this is age related?
I'm not the one who speculated the hearing/monitor issue. That was someone else. I did however agree that if there is such an issue going on that it would only make matters worse.
I said what I think the problems are and how they can be addressed in the post that you quoted and in previous posts.
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I'm just gonna quote what I wrote before:
I think they are doing things to accommodate James - they're doing songs that have less singing and more instrumental breaks, songs that don't go so high, the backing tapes have been ramped up a bit, etc. He still sounded like he was on 40% battery at my show this year, and the more time went on during the set, the worse he got. [...]
If his only problem was the highest notes, they'd probably just go down a semitone on everything, since they showed willingness to do it for the IAW Beyond tour, but that didn't help him much. It's just that singing Dream Theater songs is hard and his level of vocal agility is going down with age, despite his work to get the best he can out of his voice. He probably also likes the way he sounds as well, and thinks all the notes he does hit make up for some bad phrasing and odd turns here and there.
[...]
I wouldn't put anything (up to replacing JP) past DT, but clearly this is just how this is going to be happening, with James receiving maximum help that the regular concert goer wouldn't necessarily notice so much - conservative changes in tuning, backing tapes, setlist choices, et cetera.
We can all really just speculate about what the problem is, but for such a down turn in form for a singer who used to be quite sharp with his instincts, and who's managed to recover lost form twice throughout his career - last time he did it he was over 50 - it must be a combination of several problems. Take your pick: hearing problems? physical stamina? vocal fatigue not treated properly? re-injury we haven't been told about? everything Crystal speculates on? complacency and (harsh sounding word, but you know what I mean) delusion? I personally think the biggest part of it is him still applying the same Jaime Vendera tips from almost 20 years ago instead of going to a vocal coach who's going to take a serious look at his voice now and give him something more than a list of hacks to still hit a high note when he's tired through some kinda vowel modification, which seems to be the bulk of what Vendera does. Or at least that's all we've heard Vendera does, maybe he has some kind of amazing holistic approach that James doesn't follow :P
Judging by all interviews I've seen with him in the past year or so, I'm not sure he's super... reachable about this? He gives the vibe that he thinks he works hard and delivers all he can every time. It's not at all like he comes off conceited or anything, but he does come off like he thinks he's an expert in his voice and what works and diligent enough about it to the point that he thinks no one should give him any heat because he works so hard. I'm not gonna say he's lying and secretly he's just smoking a cigar during instrumental breaks, but it's like no one ever sat him down and told him you can always work smarter and not harder.
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I'm just gonna quote what I wrote before:
I think they are doing things to accommodate James - they're doing songs that have less singing and more instrumental breaks, songs that don't go so high, the backing tapes have been ramped up a bit, etc. He still sounded like he was on 40% battery at my show this year, and the more time went on during the set, the worse he got. [...]
If his only problem was the highest notes, they'd probably just go down a semitone on everything, since they showed willingness to do it for the IAW Beyond tour, but that didn't help him much. It's just that singing Dream Theater songs is hard and his level of vocal agility is going down with age, despite his work to get the best he can out of his voice. He probably also likes the way he sounds as well, and thinks all the notes he does hit make up for some bad phrasing and odd turns here and there.
[...]
I wouldn't put anything (up to replacing JP) past DT, but clearly this is just how this is going to be happening, with James receiving maximum help that the regular concert goer wouldn't necessarily notice so much - conservative changes in tuning, backing tapes, setlist choices, et cetera.
We can all really just speculate about what the problem is, but for such a down turn in form for a singer who used to be quite sharp with his instincts, and who's managed to recover lost form twice throughout his career - last time he did it he was over 50 - it must be a combination of several problems. Take your pick: hearing problems? physical stamina? vocal fatigue not treated properly? re-injury we haven't been told about? everything Crystal speculates on? complacency and (harsh sounding word, but you know what I mean) delusion? I personally think the biggest part of it is him still applying the same Jaime Vendera tips from almost 20 years ago instead of going to a vocal coach who's going to take a serious look at his voice now and give him something more than a list of hacks to still hit a high note when he's tired through some kinda vowel modification, which seems to be the bulk of what Vendera does. Or at least that's all we've heard Vendera does, maybe he has some kind of amazing holistic approach that James doesn't follow :P
Judging by all interviews I've seen with him in the past year or so, I'm not sure he's super... reachable about this? He gives the vibe that he thinks he works hard and delivers all he can every time. It's not at all like he comes off conceited or anything, but he does come off like he thinks he's an expert in his voice and what works and diligent about it. I'm not gonna say he's lying and secretly he's just smoking a cigar during instrumental breaks, but it's like no one ever sat him down and told him you can always work smarter and not harder.
I agree 100% with you. The only thing I'd add is that it's possible he's trying to fix the issues. Or maybe not. Since we don't know what the problem is exactly it's hard to say how/if it's addressable. He obviously has been super sensitive about any criticism over the years but I think he knows deep down this isn't his finest tour.
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He obviously has been super sensitive about any criticism over the years but I think he knows deep down this isn't his finest tour.
I haven't thought about it! It's an interesting question. Like he has ears (unless there's a hearing problem haha) and he has gotten more sensitive - he's brought up the lip sync thing at a show of all places instead of just sitting down and writing a calm Facebook post about it. The second Euro tour leg had significantly less of a presence of backup tracks compared to the first one from what I could see in the videos (haven't caught up with the Asian leg yet), and maybe that was JP saying "you know what, the people have a point, and I should step up and sing", but maybe it was JLB's pride?
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He obviously has been super sensitive about any criticism over the years but I think he knows deep down this isn't his finest tour.
I haven't thought about it! It's an interesting question. Like he has ears (unless there's a hearing problem haha) and he has gotten more sensitive - he's brought up the lip sync thing at a show of all places instead of just sitting down and writing a calm Facebook post about it. The second Euro tour leg had significantly less of a presence of backup tracks compared to the first one from what I could see in the videos (haven't caught up with the Asian leg yet), and maybe that was JP saying "you know what, the people have a point, and I should step up and sing", but maybe it was JLB's pride?
You both make very valid points in the above posts and I can't help but say that these same things have crossed my mind. Whatever actually is going on, I only hope for the best for him. Maybe it is a combination of factors, and a new teacher is the best thing he needs right now.
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James Hetfield and James LaBrie were both born in 1963. Hetfield sounds way better these days, and he’s got a lot more mileage on his voice plus he’s also suffered a vocal injury in the past.
Plus Hetfield doesn't get to go backstage and rest during instrumental parts. Or sip hot tea between every verse.
He also doesn't sing very challenging songs.
Seriously a terrible comparison
Bologna. He’s roaring it out every time. Just because he has a lower register doesn’t mean it’s not challenging.
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I checked out a couple of fan vids. Hmmm.....I don't think this is acceptable anymore.
Man, you just hit the nail on the head.
I've made no bones about my unabashed affection for JLB over the years. While I won't go so far as to say I've defended him (bc I truly believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion), I've stated on more than one occasion my supportive thoughts regarding his live performances. Bottom line: he's the reason I'm into the band and I've always felt that he made the dozen or so live shows I've attended worth it.
That all said, I've checked in on this tour, and over the past twelve months, I've kinda found myself working through the five stages of grief—denial, anger, bargaining, depression and, now, acceptance.
That all said, DT is rolling through my neck of the woods in a few months, and for the first time in, well, since maybe the Astonishing (big regret there), I'm not going to go.
I'm all for altering melodies and singing in lower keys (hell, my effusive praise of Plant over the years remains my main citation on this point), but man oh man, my dude is just struggling in every sense of the word.
There are a few of you who have done a fantastic job of articulating the 'why,' as well as the 'what' he can do to get better, so I don't really have anything to add on that front. But, as a massive JLB fan, my heart literally sinks a little further with each video I watch, and at this point, I can't justify spending my hard-earned cash on what I'm hearing.
Honestly, if he just sang everything a full octave lower, I'd be so, so happy. I love the dude's mid-range, and really think that he needs to Ray Alder his whole thing, but he clearly has no interest in that (and more power to him).
Sorry for the longish rant, but I've been sitting on these thoughts all weekend, and Wolfking's post really just summed it all up so perfectly.
It was hard after watching a couple of vids to know what else to say. I mean, I know, who the fuck am I to say what's acceptable or not, I'm a nobody and that's fine but I see a people going through those stages of grief as you mention Will and coming out and saying, 'well, this is just how it is now and we accept it.' Well.....don't the band and JLB have their own standards?
DT are godfathers of the genre and inspired so many bands. They have pushed the envelope time and time again and are still unmatched in my eyes for the way the four of them technically put things together from a musical point of view. They have been the gold standard and probably always will be. Does this give them the slack to let thing slip at times? Possibly, but while James has always been the weakest link musically and technically, he has been THE VOICE and the gateway for so much of their success. He has been the golden ticket in a way to helping them get where they are. Plus, James being a fucking amazing vocalist and such a wonderful distinct voice certainly helps.
So, they have set the bar and pushed the limits as I mentioned so I struggle as to why this is okay? I know it might be one of those cases of 'it is what it is,' but I still think it's unacceptable. Again, do the band or James himself have standards and if it's not up to that standard, something needs to be done. IMO, it's ending their career on slightly bad note with how bad he is. I mean, for example if I use Dickinson, could you imagine if he was this bad? The last live album was by far the worst he's sounded and he's certainly turned things around now but James is so far below that standard of the live album or the 'just a bad night' or monitor problems' excuses it's not funny.
I agree, sing them an octave lower, change it up, change the setlist, detune more whatever, but seriously whoever said it earlier was spot on, Portnoy would not accept this at all. He certainly was the bad guy firing the bullets and DT need someone to be the big bad wolf and confront this now, cause I doubt he'd step foot on stage with a vocal performance we are seeing currently.
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I checked out a couple of fan vids. Hmmm.....I don't think this is acceptable anymore.
Man, you just hit the nail on the head.
I've made no bones about my unabashed affection for JLB over the years. While I won't go so far as to say I've defended him (bc I truly believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion), I've stated on more than one occasion my supportive thoughts regarding his live performances. Bottom line: he's the reason I'm into the band and I've always felt that he made the dozen or so live shows I've attended worth it.
That all said, I've checked in on this tour, and over the past twelve months, I've kinda found myself working through the five stages of grief—denial, anger, bargaining, depression and, now, acceptance.
That all said, DT is rolling through my neck of the woods in a few months, and for the first time in, well, since maybe the Astonishing (big regret there), I'm not going to go.
I'm all for altering melodies and singing in lower keys (hell, my effusive praise of Plant over the years remains my main citation on this point), but man oh man, my dude is just struggling in every sense of the word.
There are a few of you who have done a fantastic job of articulating the 'why,' as well as the 'what' he can do to get better, so I don't really have anything to add on that front. But, as a massive JLB fan, my heart literally sinks a little further with each video I watch, and at this point, I can't justify spending my hard-earned cash on what I'm hearing.
Honestly, if he just sang everything a full octave lower, I'd be so, so happy. I love the dude's mid-range, and really think that he needs to Ray Alder his whole thing, but he clearly has no interest in that (and more power to him).
Sorry for the longish rant, but I've been sitting on these thoughts all weekend, and Wolfking's post really just summed it all up so perfectly.
It was hard after watching a couple of vids to know what else to say. I mean, I know, who the fuck am I to say what's acceptable or not, I'm a nobody and that's fine but I see a people going through those stages of grief as you mention Will and coming out and saying, 'well, this is just how it is now and we accept it.' Well.....don't the band and JLB have their own standards?
DT are godfathers of the genre and inspired so many bands. They have pushed the envelope time and time again and are still unmatched in my eyes for the way the four of them technically put things together from a musical point of view. They have been the gold standard and probably always will be. Does this give them the slack to let thing slip at times? Possibly, but while James has always been the weakest link musically and technically, he has been THE VOICE and the gateway for so much of their success. He has been the golden ticket in a way to helping them get where they are. Plus, James being a fucking amazing vocalist and such a wonderful distinct voice certainly helps.
So, they have set the bar and pushed the limits as I mentioned so I struggle as to why this is okay? I know it might be one of those cases of 'it is what it is,' but I still think it's unacceptable. Again, do the band or James himself have standards and if it's not up to that standard, something needs to be done. IMO, it's ending their career on slightly bad note with how bad he is. I mean, for example if I use Dickinson, could you imagine if he was this bad? The last live album was by far the worst he's sounded and he's certainly turned things around now but James is so far below that standard of the live album or the 'just a bad night' or monitor problems' excuses it's not funny.
I agree, sing them an octave lower, change it up, change the setlist, detune more whatever, but seriously whoever said it earlier was spot on, Portnoy would not accept this at all. He certainly was the bad guy firing the bullets and DT need someone to be the big bad wolf and confront this now, cause I doubt he'd step foot on stage with a vocal performance we are seeing currently.
Let us not go THAT far :lol
Joking aside, I agree with what you're saying that there is no chance in hell Portnoy would have stood for this. He tolerated the volatility for a long time but it came with a warning. A lot of people probably thought he was being a jerk at the time, but I think he understood that the performances were hitting a low point. Sometimes it's a good thing to rock the boat. What we have right now is clearly upsetting a lot of JLB fans even - and that is how you know something is different. He has his die hard fans, but a lot here appear to be saying they can't defend this.
The guys should do something rather than just pretending it's not happening, but I also understand there is also a 30 year friendship behind the business and I respect that element of it too. You have to do right by your friends in the end.
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Okay, golden ticket a bit much but I think he's been such an integral point in helping them get the status they have.
Saying about the Portnoy thing though, the performances now make the off nights Portnoy used to take exception to sound like a classical opera.
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Saying about the Portnoy thing though, the performances now make the off nights Portnoy used to take exception to sound like a classical opera.
:lol
I was thinking the same thing.
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Admittedly, when there was beef I wasn't paying a lot of attention to the band's live performances. But from what little I have seen on YouTube, there were some really rough moments back then too.
I want a Blu Ray of the View tour or Deamsonic, but a part of me is wondering if I will really want to listen to it over and over again in light of what we are discussing.
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Perhaps this is the reason they haven't made any announcement to film for a bluray release. They raised the bar with SCORE and JLB was on fire at that time. BTFW, and Luna were pretty good too. I really enjoyed the Live in London from 2020 a lot, but James was starting to change his style and use strange accents at times.
He sounded quite good in Seattle just a year ago on the View tour.
I think the YouTube videos make him sound worse than he really is because the recordings are thin sounding and detract from the tone of his voice.
I dunno, I'm glad to be seeing DT again this summer and I'm not gonna be critical of James. He gave us a lot of incredible shows over the years and made all of their albums sound amazing. He has a tough job singing DT material approaching the 60 years of age mark. His instrument is organic, it's not like he can just change the strings or put new drum heads on.
I'd rather see Dream Theater live with James Labrie any day (despite his imperfections), than see them with a new polished singer. It wouldn't seem right without him..
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Perhaps this is the reason they haven't made any announcement to film for a bluray release. They raised the bar with SCORE and JLB was on fire at that time. BTFW, and Luna were pretty good too. I really enjoyed the Live in London from 2020 a lot, but James was starting to change his style and use strange accents at times.
This. I know exactly what you mean by "strange accents" and I think this is a big part of where bad vocal habits crept in - after doing character voices for The Astonishing.
I think the YouTube videos make him sound worse than he really is because the recordings are thin sounding and detract from the tone of his voice.
Thank you! I think this is another very important reason why places like YouTube are filled with such negativity about his present sound. Not that there aren't real things to work on (see above), but the nature of the recording equipment in fan videos - usually a phone of dubious quality - is not optimal for capturing the overtones of the trained human voice. And higher voices especially are loaded with overtones. So exactly, this is something to consider. If one had never before seen the ocean, would they believe it's beauty if all I showed them was a fuzzy, pixelated picture taken on a crappy old phone? Even the best new phones are not equipped with adequate microphones for recording the human voice.
I dunno, I'm glad to be seeing DT again this summer and I'm not gonna be critical of James. He gave us a lot of incredible shows over the years and made all of their albums sound amazing. He has a tough job singing DT material approaching the 60 years of age mark. His instrument is organic, it's not like he can just change the strings or put new drum heads on.
I'd rather see Dream Theater live with James Labrie any day (despite his imperfections), than see them with a new polished singer. It wouldn't seem right without him..
Agreed! 💯 💯 💯 💯 💯
And for those who do not share this way of thinking and are choosing not to support the band at live shows anymore because of James, may I ask why you would not want to continue to support the other members of the band by enjoying their live performances? For all that I go on about James, it was a portion of instrumental music that initially drew me in, specifically it was Jordan's Octavarium intro. His playing, and JP's, are truly above and beyond otherworldly. And even when James is not on top of his game, I have come to the concert for the whole band, and I know I will enjoy it immensely. Dream Theater music is a total package, and sometimes I think people see the proverbial package with its shiny bow ripped off and forget that there are still wonderful presents inside.
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And for those who do not share this way of thinking and are choosing not to support the band at live shows anymore because of James, may I ask why you would not want to continue to support the other members of the band by enjoying their live performances?
For me, it's because the performance - James aside - is so sanitised these days. It's like sex with a condom. I mean, it's still sex so it's hopefully not going to be bad but I'd hugely prefer it without the safety net. (Christ, am I really going to post this?! :lol)
As a sidenote, are we really about to start blaming mobile phones again? :biggrin:
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And for those who do not share this way of thinking and are choosing not to support the band at live shows anymore because of James, may I ask why you would not want to continue to support the other members of the band by enjoying their live performances?
Honestly, I will never understand this train of thought.
I suppose I don't equate paying money for a concert ticket to support.
Support is showing up to my kid's Rugby match. Support is showing up to a poorly attended local show to watch my friend's band play. Support is going to an open-mic night and clapping after every one does their thing.
Paying money to watch 4/5ths of DT shred is, to me at least, a business transaction. Thus, I am under no obligation to do or not do anything (and neither is the band). For years, I enjoyed the product, so I gladly paid for it. When my enjoyment dipped below a certain threshold, I stopped.
Does this make a bad fan? Does this erase the thousands I've spent on tickets and physical media over the years? No, and no.
I feel like, whenever these conversations come up, there's this temptation amongst some fans to equate attendance with loyalty. Perhaps I'm just too pragmatic for my own good, but in my view, if money is involved, it's a transaction–nothing more, nothing less. (which means, it's not personal)
That all said, I keep checking in on the band in the hopes that things turn around. There is no one pulling for JLB more than me (and the rest of us on this thread).
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And for those who do not share this way of thinking and are choosing not to support the band at live shows anymore because of James, may I ask why you would not want to continue to support the other members of the band by enjoying their live performances?
For me, it's because the performance - James aside - is so sanitised these days. It's like sex with a condom. I mean, it's still sex so it's hopefully not going to be bad but I'd hugely prefer it without the safety net. (Christ, am I really going to post this?! :lol)
As a sidenote, are we really about to start blaming mobile phones again? :biggrin:
Sex with a condom can be great though. I find it really convenient sometimes. I don't have to run off immediately after and grab a handful of tissues. No mess :biggrin:
And yes, lol, we are blaming mobile phones again. One of the 5 stages of grief is denial. If it's really just the cellphones and not JLB, then, like, what's the problem?
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Does this make a bad fan? Does this erase the thousands I've spent on tickets and physical media over the years? No, and no.
I feel like, whenever these conversations come up, there's this temptation amongst some fans to equate attendance with loyalty.
That's not what was being implied at all. To clarify, I was legitimately just trying to understand 'the other side' way of seeing it. You've explained it quite well.
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And yes, lol, we are blaming mobile phones again. One of the 5 stages of grief is denial. If it's really just the cellphones and not JLB, then, like, what's the problem?
Oh there's definitely a problem. The last two pages of posts have been about precisely that. I don't think anyone here is in denial, as we've all discussed the real issues at hand already. The bad cell phone recording thing is just another layer of the whole onion.
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I agree with the cell phone adding a layer. There have been many shows (not just DT) that I've gone to and thought the vocal performance was killer only to look it up later and realized it's not as good as I remember. It doesn't really take away from the experience I had in person.
I've been there for some bad JLB nights and it's always worse when you go back and review the footage than in the moment. Maybe I just have too many beers at DT shows :lol
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Maybe I just have too many beers at DT shows :lol
Oh, the euphoria of a live show certainly plays into it.
But my experience of the London show, from the second row both nights, was that it sounded exactly like the mobile phone clips Kyo posted above.
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Let us not go THAT far :lol
Joking aside, I agree with what you're saying that there is no chance in hell Portnoy would have stood for this. He tolerated the volatility for a long time but it came with a warning. A lot of people probably thought he was being a jerk at the time, but I think he understood that the performances were hitting a low point. Sometimes it's a good thing to rock the boat. What we have right now is clearly upsetting a lot of JLB fans even - and that is how you know something is different. He has his die hard fans, but a lot here appear to be saying they can't defend this.
The guys should do something rather than just pretending it's not happening, but I also understand there is also a 30 year friendship behind the business and I respect that element of it too. You have to do right by your friends in the end.
I've kind of stayed out of this because, well, it is what it is, and this is the presentation DT wants to give. I go when I can hang with my friends and have a good time, and I don't when the value prop isn't there.
But with the understanding that I got into DT with "Images and Words", because I had never heard a singer quite like James (and a drummer quite like Mike) and he's a big part of the love I have for the band, I think a bit of creative tension in a band is good. How many bands put out their best (or one of their best) albums and later they talk about "how the band almost broke up making it". Page got on Plant's case and Plant was better for it. Richards got on Jagger's case (a lot) and Jagger was better for it. The Edge got on Bono's case and Bono was better for it. This isn't a backyard BBQ, or a garage band reliving past glories. This is a world class operation, and unfortunately, it's also a business. You know, Rush has sort of ruined it for everyone with their video of that great dinner, "hey we're all lifelong friends giving each other gifts and cracking jokes constantly", but you look at the Making Of... DVD for Snakes and Arrows, and the band - well, Alex and Geddy - found a way to tell the GREAT (the GREATEST?) drummer, Neil Peart, that they didn't like what he was doing on a particular track, and he - like a human - got mad, and went in and - like an adult - gave them something better (something that, in the DVD anyway, appeared to leave them speechless).
Truth is sometimes hard, and I believe if you can't take or accept the truth, you don't belong on a stage in front of thousands of people like that. But that's just me.
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Cell phones aren't changing the pitches. They're not changing the vowel pronunciation or making him run out of breath. It may not be an optimal medium of presentation when we are talking about tone, but a strong performance is regardless of the recording equipment.
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I'd have rather seen Meat Loaf on his worst night than see someone else sing those songs, and I think the same applies to JLB for me as well.
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Problem is that I don't think "something better" is possible at this point. He's a human who has beat his vocal cords to death for 40 years screaming in a metal band. It was a great run. Studio albums are fine and I'll keep buying them. Live is unacceptable for a professional vocalist and I just can't do it any more.
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Cell phones aren't changing the pitches. They're not changing the vowel pronunciation or making him run out of breath. It may not be an optimal medium of presentation when we are talking about tone, but a strong performance is regardless of the recording equipment.
That's what i've came here to say too.
This was him in 2006, and although both the audio and video are not the greatest, you can definitely hear how insanely good he was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAZd1r8kcq8
I don't really think it's a matter of the guys ignoring the reality: it's just a combinations of inner relationships, both human and financial, and a risk-benefit analysis. Of course, when you choose a path, in this case relying solely on JLB no matter what, you're going to defend it like you had have never thought otherwise.
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But you can only survive with a singer that can't sing for so long.
I feel like JP, in particular, has a lot of years ahead of him, so we'll see what happens I guess.
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I get what some of you are saying about the business side of things. As a fan I go to a DT show nowadays to join them in the fun and celebrate their longevity, not to criticize. I'm just glad to be there in person amongst some of my musical heroes. I don't feel obligated to be at their shows, my heart moves me to go out of appreciation. It's also great to meet other DT fans like many times before.
The last few times I Rush, I wasn't going there to be enamored by Geds voice. I was going there to celebrate the moment, as it turns into one more.. 😉😁
If DT comes to my neck of the woods up here in the PNW, it's not an option.... I'm there! 💯
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I get what some of you are saying about the business side of things. As a fan I go to a DT show nowadays to join them in the fun and celebrate their longevity, not to criticize. I'm just glad to be there in person amongst some of my musical heroes. I don't feel obligated to be at their shows, my heart moves me to go out of appreciation. It's also great to meet other DT fans like many times before.
The last few times I saw Rush, I wasn't going there to be enamored by Geds voice. I was going there to celebrate the moment, as it turns into one more.. 😉😁
If DT comes to my neck of the woods up here in the PNW, it's not an option.... I'm there! 💯
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Dangit, I tried to modify my previous post. When I pressed the save button it automatically made a second post. I don't know what happened.. :justjen
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Dangit, I tried to modify my previous post. When I pressed the save button it automatically made a second post. I don't know what happened.. :justjen
You hit "quote" instead of "modify" I think!
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But you can only survive with a singer that can't sing for so long.
I feel like JP, in particular, has a lot of years ahead of him, so we'll see what happens I guess.
Someone could argue that they’ve been doing it for quite some time now….
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To be fair though, he sounded much better in a recent show in Manila
https://youtu.be/UED56tpoSbI
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I'd have rather seen Meat Loaf on his worst night than see someone else sing those songs, and I think the same applies to JLB for me as well.
I think most of us that are critical of his vocals are still in this camp. I know I am. It's a catch 22 situation. Although I feel his vocals aren't really acceptable, I would never want James replaced, yet there's no real hard and fast solution.
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Speaking for me I think I'll support the guys by going to see them if they pass through no matter how James sounds. I get he hasn't sounded great but DT is going into 40 years of music, they're not gonna be at the top of their game forever and I'd rather see them as much as I can before they hang it up for good.
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Speaking for me I think I'll support the guys by going to see them if they pass through no matter how James sounds. I get he hasn't sounded great but DT is going into 40 years of music, they're not gonna be at the top of their game forever and I'd rather see them as much as I can before they hang it up for good.
I would never phrase it as supporting the guys, but otherwise, I plan on catching them when they come through.
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To be fair though, he sounded much better in a recent show in Manila
https://youtu.be/UED56tpoSbI
Nice! 💫
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An AI could replace him maybe?
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An AI could replace him maybe?
Yikes! I realize you're kidding, but I honestly don't think we're that far away from it being a reality :eek
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.
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An AI could replace him maybe?
This is exactly what they tried to warn us about in The Astonishing.
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An AI could replace him maybe?
Yikes! I realize you're kidding, but I honestly don't think we're that far away from it being a reality :eek
We're not. Some DJ recently made a fake intro by Eminem for his set.
(only a minute long)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40lOIZLUACU
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An AI could replace him maybe?
Hell no
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So a combination of AI and a talkbox to feed synthesized/recorded vocals into James' mouth and then he can shape it to add a live element to his performance.
Sounds horrendous... but so do his actual live vocals.
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Harsh but... :lol
An Oasis-like band recently released several songs with AI vocals by Liam Gallagher. And it's not completely unconvincing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whB21dr2Hlc Give it a few years...
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Seems to me, adding the vocal backing tracks to layer with JLB live was DT trying to help him out. Problem is, the fans ripped the band for it. So do you want to hear his struggles or do you want him to get some help with backing tracks? It's certainly not a win-win situation for the band here.
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Seems to me, adding the vocal backing tracks to layer with JLB live was DT trying to help him out. Problem is, the fans ripped the band for it. So do you want to hear his struggles or do you want him to get some help with backing tracks? It's certainly not a win-win situation for the band here.
Backing tracks don't help James sing better. I don't get the comparison.
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Seems to me, adding the vocal backing tracks to layer with JLB live was DT trying to help him out. Problem is, the fans ripped the band for it. So do you want to hear his struggles or do you want him to get some help with backing tracks? It's certainly not a win-win situation for the band here.
Backing tracks don't help James sing better. I don't get the comparison.
He can sing lower and harmonize to his backing vocals doing the "tougher" parts. It doesn't help him sing better, it helps the overall sound you hear of his voice. Which many people pointed out didn't sound right when they didn't do this. A significant amount of bands do this these days.
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I'd have rather seen Meat Loaf on his worst night than see someone else sing those songs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7nVteJ8_8k&t=33s
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Seems to me, adding the vocal backing tracks to layer with JLB live was DT trying to help him out. Problem is, the fans ripped the band for it. So do you want to hear his struggles or do you want him to get some help with backing tracks? It's certainly not a win-win situation for the band here.
Backing tracks don't help James sing better. I don't get the comparison.
He can sing lower and harmonize to his backing vocals doing the "tougher" parts. It doesn't help him sing better, it helps the overall sound you hear of his voice. Which many people pointed out didn't sound right when they didn't do this. A significant amount of bands do this these days.
Yeah, and I think that sucks. It's piped in vocals.
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Seems to me, adding the vocal backing tracks to layer with JLB live was DT trying to help him out. Problem is, the fans ripped the band for it. So do you want to hear his struggles or do you want him to get some help with backing tracks? It's certainly not a win-win situation for the band here.
Backing tracks don't help James sing better. I don't get the comparison.
He can sing lower and harmonize to his backing vocals doing the "tougher" parts. It doesn't help him sing better, it helps the overall sound you hear of his voice. Which many people pointed out didn't sound right when they didn't do this. A significant amount of bands do this these days.
Yeah, and I think that sucks. It's piped in vocals.
It's both and I think that's why JLB so fiercely defended himself saying he was always singing, he wasn't wrong. I think it sucks for the most part, but makes sense in certain situations. The concert I saw Sunday night was definitely doing this. The female singer had a backing track with an effect on her voice and she sung over it, it seemed. So she was in effect live, but what you heard wasn't exactly how she sounds. She came out and did a song wtih the headlining band and it didn't have that effect so you could hear just her voice and it was quite different. HAving said that, these things don't bother fans of pop music, but it certainly stands out and bothers the prog fans which I understand.
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It's both and I think that's why JLB so fiercely defended himself saying he was always singing, he wasn't wrong. I think it sucks for the most part, but makes sense in certain situations. The concert I saw Sunday night was definitely doing this. The female singer had a backing track with an effect on her voice and she sung over it, it seemed. So she was in effect live, but what you heard wasn't exactly how she sounds. She came out and did a song wtih the headlining band and it didn't have that effect so you could hear just her voice and it was quite different. HAving said that, these things don't bother fans of pop music, but it certainly stands out and bothers the prog fans which I understand.
I don't mind a vocal effect on a sung line, as long as it's not tuning. I just don't believe in piped in vocals, backing or whatnot.
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Personally, I prefer a full 100% live show. It's just not the reality for most bands these days. But most importantly, I do, personally, want the main vocalist to be 100% live which I very much believe JLB is even if he's using backing tracks for support. I don't mind that too much. JP's mic off bothers me a bit more though because if you can't hear his actual voice, why bother making it look like you are singing.
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I had no issues with the backing vocal tracks because JLB is harmonizing and these harmonies are a part of the music. My issue was these backing tracks being just as loud, if not, louder than his actual live vocals.
There were moments where it was hard to differentiate between what he was singing live compared to what was a backing track. That's what happens when you harmonize with yourself.
Personally, I prefer a full 100% live show. It's just not the reality for most bands these days. But most importantly, I do, personally, want the main vocalist to be 100% live which I very much believe JLB is even if he's using backing tracks for support. I don't mind that too much. JP's mic off bothers me a bit more though because if you can't hear his actual voice, why bother making it look like you are singing.
But JP is also singing live, his voice is just that low in the mix it's barely audible and noticable. But Alex Lifeson did the same thing.
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But JP is also singing live, his voice is just that low in the mix it's barely audible and noticable. But Alex Lifeson did the same thing.
Then what's the damn point?
It's to give the illusion that he's singing the backing vocals, when they're piped in. It's not really a lip synch, but it's more of a mimic.
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Personally, I prefer a full 100% live show. It's just not the reality for most bands these days. But most importantly, I do, personally, want the main vocalist to be 100% live which I very much believe JLB is even if he's using backing tracks for support. I don't mind that too much. JP's mic off bothers me a bit more though because if you can't hear his actual voice, why bother making it look like you are singing.
But JP is also singing live, his voice is just that low in the mix it's barely audible and noticable. But Alex Lifeson did the same thing.
I understand that, but it might as well be off. It's not barely audible, his live vocals are inaudible. Other than some instances where JLB's backing tracks weren't on the proper levels, JLB's voice is always heard live. (otherwise there wouldn't be so many complaints!)
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Personally, I prefer a full 100% live show. It's just not the reality for most bands these days. But most importantly, I do, personally, want the main vocalist to be 100% live which I very much believe JLB is even if he's using backing tracks for support. I don't mind that too much. JP's mic off bothers me a bit more though because if you can't hear his actual voice, why bother making it look like you are singing.
I'm with you on this. I'll reserve comment until I ACTUALLY see it, but in theory I'm not down with the Vince Neil/Paul Stanley school of "I'm singing, but we're piping in a tracked vocal near to or identical to the main one".
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But JP is also singing live, his voice is just that low in the mix it's barely audible and noticable. But Alex Lifeson did the same thing.
Then what's the damn point?
It's to give the illusion that he's singing the backing vocals, when they're piped in. It's not really a lip synch, but it's more of a mimic.
I don't know. Maybe they trigger the backing track by their voice. And for it to be heard and triggered, the one triggering the mic needs to keep saying words for it to be continuing to be heard.
This is what JP said about Backing Tracks...
"It depends on what people are doing because some people don't tour with their whole bands, so they have sound effects and things going on. If they're up there playing their asses off, and they have some sound effects backing that up while they're doing it, that doesn't really bother me. Having said that, I think that if anybody's up there faking it or pretending, that's a whole different thing. But I think things have changed a lot; you'll have a lot of bands that just go out with two guys now, maybe it's just a guitar player and a drummer, so they need a pre-recorded bass player. If that's the case, then I guess they have to do what they have to do to keep the show going. So, while I am not for people fake playing, it really depends on the situation."
https://blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theaters-john-petrucci-weighs-in-on-use-of-backing-tracks-at-live-concerts
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I thought about the trigger thing but that's stupid. We're gonna trigger James' voice with JP's singing? WTF?
As usual, JP doesn't say much of anything in that article.
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As usual, JP doesn't say much of anything in that article.
Yeah, there's nothing of interest there. And I don't think it's triggered. They play to a click track for that purpose.
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As usual, JP doesn't say much of anything in that article.
Yeah, there's nothing of interest there. And I don't think it's triggered. They play to a click track for that purpose.
They play to a click track because it also helps a lot with the production of the stage show, such as lighting and the video screens. Not just to trigger the backing vocals easily.
But then, what I think doesn't matter anyways, so why bother?
Personally, I don't give two shits whether a band wants to utilize technology or not. You have those DJ's and others utilizing AI technology to make it seem like a musician is performing. So does it bother you that music is not human anymore?
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But this combination (of live singing + backing tracks) is still, technically, live ... So the argument for or against becomes rather generational, doesn't it? It's not simply about whether it offends "pop fans" vs "prog fans", I think it's the same mindset that leads some to call DT's recent shows "sanitized". It becomes about what people prefer because it's what they grew up with or not. That has nothing to do with genre, and everything to do with whether someone grew up with raw and unpolished live shows in the 70s and 80s and prefers that type of live sound over the refined and pristine sound of shows today. (and that said, I am in the latter camp, and I have never been a pop music fan). It's neither right nor wrong, it's just a preference.
Yet some speak as if it's something morally offensive? I don't get it. I makes more sense to consider it so if the singer isn't actually singing, no? And why does this bother people so much with singers, when there are obviously also backing tracks for the other instruments, this even being widely accepted, even expected for them?
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But this combination (of live singing + backing tracks) is still, technically, live ... So the argument for or against becomes rather generational, doesn't it? It's not simply about whether it offends "pop fans" vs "prog fans", I think it's the same mindset that leads some to call DT's recent shows "sanitized". It becomes about what people prefer because it's what they grew up with or not. That has nothing to do with genre, and everything to do with whether someone grew up with raw and unpolished live shows in the 70s and 80s and prefers that type of live sound over the refined and pristine sound of shows today. (and that said, I am in the latter camp, and I have never been a pop music fan). It's neither right nor wrong, it's just a preference.
Yet some speak as if it's something morally offensive? I don't get it. I makes more sense to consider it so if the singer isn't actually singing, no? And why does this bother people so much with singers, when there are obviously also backing tracks for the other instruments, this even being widely accepted, even expected for them?
People do prefer that raw and live, natural, sound of a human and their instrument playing the music live. I would contribute this with a human relation and connection we make when another human sings, creates music. Hearing them sing that live is a sight to behold. IF you want a true testament to the human voice and sound, is to hear music played acoustically, with no plug ins, just the drums, voice, acoustic guitars and other acoustic instruments.
With the integration of technology, we humans gained access to more electronic gadgets and devices to further explore our musical creativity. What I feel some are worried about and do not enjoy is the integration of technology creating the music, over the human making the music. To some, they would say the "Soul" is missing because of the mechanical sound associated with the technology used in modern music.
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What are you guys talking about? JP is clearly singing the harmonies on the second leg of this tour and is very audible.
They actually listened to the fans after the first leg and ditched most of the backing tracks. JP is doing a good job with this.
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All this machinery making modern music can still be open hearted..
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What are you guys talking about? JP is clearly singing the harmonies on the second leg of this tour and is very audible.
They actually listened to the fans after the first leg and ditched most of the backing tracks. JP is doing a good job with this.
I havent watched a single video from this leg, so if he's no longer faking it, that's a great improvement.
But this combination (of live singing + backing tracks) is still, technically, live ... So the argument for or against becomes rather generational, doesn't it? It's not simply about whether it offends "pop fans" vs "prog fans", I think it's the same mindset that leads some to call DT's recent shows "sanitized". It becomes about what people prefer because it's what they grew up with or not. That has nothing to do with genre, and everything to do with whether someone grew up with raw and unpolished live shows in the 70s and 80s and prefers that type of live sound over the refined and pristine sound of shows today. (and that said, I am in the latter camp, and I have never been a pop music fan). It's neither right nor wrong, it's just a preference.
Yet some speak as if it's something morally offensive? I don't get it. I makes more sense to consider it so if the singer isn't actually singing, no? And why does this bother people so much with singers, when there are obviously also backing tracks for the other instruments, this even being widely accepted, even expected for them?
It is both generational (look at Eddie Trunk for example) and genre.
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I know for me it IS age, in the sense that I'm old enough to have seen a lot of things. I've seen shows that I felt were largely piped in (ZZ Top, for example). I've seen shows that couldn't possibly have been piped in (the early Aerosmith shows; how do you pipe in the thud and clunk of Steven Tyler falling off the drum riser).
But after a handful of shows - Page and Plant, Kiss with Def Leppard, Bruce on Broadway - I've really come to appreciate the "art" of music. I could hear Bruce singing and playing guitar outside of the amplification/PA system and it was beautiful. I saw a decent but not amazing Kiss show go to another level when Gene got pissed at his flying rig, and screamed at his roadies. After the song he went over to Paul and Tommy and from that moment on they played like a band possessed. Even my daughter said "dad, what happened? They kicked it up a notch!"
I don't know; I see those moments happening less and less the more the show is pre-planned. That's not BAD: plays and operas are pre-planned and they are - or can be - wildly entertaining (Hamilton). But I'm there for MUSIC, and I want to see that intangible of a man or woman who can play and sing way better than I can do what they do way better than I can. I don't mind mistakes, I don't mind when voices are shredded, I kind of want to see what the band does with that. That Kiss show was AFTER Paul's voice shit the bed; was it the best "Love Gun" ever? NOPE. But it was real. Fish; every time I've seen him it's been progressively worse in terms of his vocals (see what I did there?). Don't care; I get to see the Big Man playing the songs HE wrote and that I love. My friend Jim and I saw Ace Frehley in a club about a year ago and it blew; he could barely sing, he looked wasted, but we had fun, the backing band was great (we hung with them for almost an hour after the show on the sidewalk in front of the club) and it's probably the show we talk about most between us.
I don't void a band like Motley doing what they are allegedly doing; they have to fill stadiums and they need a level of continuity that you don't need in a club. So be it; I know people that went to that show and LOVED it. That's not a show that I'm going to probably see. Not my thing.
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I know for me it IS age, in the sense that I'm old enough to have seen a lot of things. I've seen shows that I felt were largely piped in (ZZ Top, for example). I've seen shows that couldn't possibly have been piped in (the early Aerosmith shows; how do you pipe in the thud and clunk of Steven Tyler falling off the drum riser).
But after a handful of shows - Page and Plant, Kiss with Def Leppard, Bruce on Broadway - I've really come to appreciate the "art" of music. I could hear Bruce singing and playing guitar outside of the amplification/PA system and it was beautiful. I saw a decent but not amazing Kiss show go to another level when Gene got pissed at his flying rig, and screamed at his roadies. After the song he went over to Paul and Tommy and from that moment on they played like a band possessed. Even my daughter said "dad, what happened? They kicked it up a notch!"
I don't know; I see those moments happening less and less the more the show is pre-planned. That's not BAD: plays and operas are pre-planned and they are - or can be - wildly entertaining (Hamilton). But I'm there for MUSIC, and I want to see that intangible of a man or woman who can play and sing way better than I can do what they do way better than I can. I don't mind mistakes, I don't mind when voices are shredded, I kind of want to see what the band does with that. That Kiss show was AFTER Paul's voice shit the bed; was it the best "Love Gun" ever? NOPE. But it was real. Fish; every time I've seen him it's been progressively worse in terms of his vocals (see what I did there?). Don't care; I get to see the Big Man playing the songs HE wrote and that I love. My friend Jim and I saw Ace Frehley in a club about a year ago and it blew; he could barely sing, he looked wasted, but we had fun, the backing band was great (we hung with them for almost an hour after the show on the sidewalk in front of the club) and it's probably the show we talk about most between us.
I don't void a band like Motley doing what they are allegedly doing; they have to fill stadiums and they need a level of continuity that you don't need in a club. So be it; I know people that went to that show and LOVED it. That's not a show that I'm going to probably see. Not my thing.
Super well-said and pretty much sums up my thoughts on this (especially those last three words)
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But what I didn't say is, Ace - "my thing" - was 400 people in a 700 seat club. Motley - "not my thing" - is stadia with 60,000+/- people. A LOT of people DO NOT CARE. And Eddie Trunk needs to shut the fuck up, because it's not his call. I cannot and will not void Motley Crue for wanting to play in front of 60,000 people every night and doing what they feel it takes to do that. I get a boner when 6 people dig what I do (whether it's at work, playing music, or posting here); why would I not want to have 60,000 people hear my music if that was my gig?
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But what I didn't say is, Ace - "my thing" - was 400 people in a 700 seat club. Motley - "not my thing" - is stadia with 60,000+/- people. A LOT of people DO NOT CARE. And Eddie Trunk needs to shut the fuck up, because it's not his call. I cannot and will not void Motley Crue for wanting to play in front of 60,000 people every night and doing what they feel it takes to do that. I get a boner when 6 people dig what I do (whether it's at work, playing music, or posting here); why would I not want to have 60,000 people hear my music if that was my gig?
Oh, for sure. And to that point, I don't know how much of a conscious decision it is.
For instance, Ace plays where he plays for a variety of factors, and he wears that 'no backing tracks' thing like a badge of honor (and rightfully so).
That said, I sincerely doubt he'd die on that hill if the only thing that stood between him and a four night run at MSG was the use of backing tracks.
This isn't a Metallica thread, but I keep checking out their live vids from this tour and their 'warts and all' approach is so ballsy—they definitely have my respect on that front.
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Eddie Trunk needs to shut the fuck up
A thousand times this
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God willing we have another 4-5 albums/tours. The shows will be tweaked here and there for refinement but broadly speaking, this is what we are getting until the curtain call. I am trying to make arrangements to see the Dreamsonic show but am under no illusion that he's going to be a new man if they'd just swap in a couple of different tunes, go with a new brand of ear monitors, and get him vocal coaching. The guy is 60 and his body is changing. It is what it is.
Surely one of the hottest takes of 2023. There is no way IN HELL James has 4 - 5 tour cycles left in him. Sorry but that's reality.
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But what I didn't say is, Ace - "my thing" - was 400 people in a 700 seat club. Motley - "not my thing" - is stadia with 60,000+/- people. A LOT of people DO NOT CARE. And Eddie Trunk needs to shut the fuck up, because it's not his call. I cannot and will not void Motley Crue for wanting to play in front of 60,000 people every night and doing what they feel it takes to do that. I get a boner when 6 people dig what I do (whether it's at work, playing music, or posting here); why would I not want to have 60,000 people hear my music if that was my gig?
Oh, for sure. And to that point, I don't know how much of a conscious decision it is.
For instance, Ace plays where he plays for a variety of factors, and he wears that 'no backing tracks' thing like a badge of honor (and rightfully so).
That said, I sincerely doubt he'd die on that hill if the only thing that stood between him and a four night run at MSG was the use of backing tracks.
This isn't a Metallica thread, but I keep checking out their live vids from this tour and their 'warts and all' approach is so ballsy—they definitely have my respect on that front.
1000% on both those last two sentences. Ace has already said he's up for a Kiss reunion - Kiss notoriously augmenting their live lead vocals and basically piping most if not all their backing vocals - "if the money is right". Of course - on Trunk's show, go figure - he took shots at Paul for what he's doing, but the overarching theme of his position is "I'm in if the money's right, full stop."
As for James and gang, agreed. I want to see Metallica more now than I ever have. I WILL see them at some point before they call it a day (I just hate the stadium thing, so bad!)
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As for James and gang, agreed. I want to see Metallica more now than I ever have. I WILL see them at some point before they call it a day (I just hate the stadium thing, so bad!)
Same here, I am too old for that stadium 2 nights 2 setlists thing. I don't think my back can handle standing around for hours for one show, let alone two.
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I know for me it IS age, in the sense that I'm old enough to have seen a lot of things. I've seen shows that I felt were largely piped in (ZZ Top, for example). I've seen shows that couldn't possibly have been piped in (the early Aerosmith shows; how do you pipe in the thud and clunk of Steven Tyler falling off the drum riser).
But after a handful of shows - Page and Plant, Kiss with Def Leppard, Bruce on Broadway - I've really come to appreciate the "art" of music. I could hear Bruce singing and playing guitar outside of the amplification/PA system and it was beautiful. I saw a decent but not amazing Kiss show go to another level when Gene got pissed at his flying rig, and screamed at his roadies. After the song he went over to Paul and Tommy and from that moment on they played like a band possessed. Even my daughter said "dad, what happened? They kicked it up a notch!"
I don't know; I see those moments happening less and less the more the show is pre-planned. That's not BAD: plays and operas are pre-planned and they are - or can be - wildly entertaining (Hamilton). But I'm there for MUSIC, and I want to see that intangible of a man or woman who can play and sing way better than I can do what they do way better than I can. I don't mind mistakes, I don't mind when voices are shredded, I kind of want to see what the band does with that. That Kiss show was AFTER Paul's voice shit the bed; was it the best "Love Gun" ever? NOPE. But it was real. Fish; every time I've seen him it's been progressively worse in terms of his vocals (see what I did there?). Don't care; I get to see the Big Man playing the songs HE wrote and that I love. My friend Jim and I saw Ace Frehley in a club about a year ago and it blew; he could barely sing, he looked wasted, but we had fun, the backing band was great (we hung with them for almost an hour after the show on the sidewalk in front of the club) and it's probably the show we talk about most between us.
I don't void a band like Motley doing what they are allegedly doing; they have to fill stadiums and they need a level of continuity that you don't need in a club. So be it; I know people that went to that show and LOVED it. That's not a show that I'm going to probably see. Not my thing.
I'm with you on this, other than I did enjoy the Motley crue shows :lol before I knew it was a lot of backing tracks, but honestly, I was pretty sure there were some while watching but when you hear Vince sing, you kind of fall back into "well this has to be legit because he sounds so bad!" :lol
As for the bolded. I have a GREAT example of this from a show last weekend. The band, Set It Off, is alike a pop rock / pop punk band. They play to a backing track and they don't really hide it. I've seen the singer talk about it in interviews. But, he's live. And in this one song, he's doing the intro and the backing track is already playing as he says something kind of stupid (see for yourself) and then as the song keeps going he just can't sing because he's laughing. It's a moment where, yeah, the music isn't totally live, but you still saw a real live moment on stage. I loved it. It'll probably make my top 10 concert moments video at the end of the year.
https://youtu.be/9SwaTWK23GQ?t=1316 (https://youtu.be/9SwaTWK23GQ?t=1316) in case you want to see what I'm talking about, and if you watch till later in the video, he get's called out for that comment :lol
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they were obviously piping in the track to help him out and make it sound more like the studio recording. Yes, it does smooth out the overall delivery but I do not like piped in instruments unless it's critical to the song. In the case of DT it was not. I want to hear the band in all their glory when I go to a live show. I do appreciate the perfecting of the live shows but also want them to remain live performances as much as possible.
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I know for me it IS age, in the sense that I'm old enough to have seen a lot of things. I've seen shows that I felt were largely piped in (ZZ Top, for example). I've seen shows that couldn't possibly have been piped in (the early Aerosmith shows; how do you pipe in the thud and clunk of Steven Tyler falling off the drum riser).
But after a handful of shows - Page and Plant, Kiss with Def Leppard, Bruce on Broadway - I've really come to appreciate the "art" of music. I could hear Bruce singing and playing guitar outside of the amplification/PA system and it was beautiful. I saw a decent but not amazing Kiss show go to another level when Gene got pissed at his flying rig, and screamed at his roadies. After the song he went over to Paul and Tommy and from that moment on they played like a band possessed. Even my daughter said "dad, what happened? They kicked it up a notch!"
I don't know; I see those moments happening less and less the more the show is pre-planned. That's not BAD: plays and operas are pre-planned and they are - or can be - wildly entertaining (Hamilton). But I'm there for MUSIC, and I want to see that intangible of a man or woman who can play and sing way better than I can do what they do way better than I can. I don't mind mistakes, I don't mind when voices are shredded, I kind of want to see what the band does with that. That Kiss show was AFTER Paul's voice shit the bed; was it the best "Love Gun" ever? NOPE. But it was real. Fish; every time I've seen him it's been progressively worse in terms of his vocals (see what I did there?). Don't care; I get to see the Big Man playing the songs HE wrote and that I love. My friend Jim and I saw Ace Frehley in a club about a year ago and it blew; he could barely sing, he looked wasted, but we had fun, the backing band was great (we hung with them for almost an hour after the show on the sidewalk in front of the club) and it's probably the show we talk about most between us.
I don't void a band like Motley doing what they are allegedly doing; they have to fill stadiums and they need a level of continuity that you don't need in a club. So be it; I know people that went to that show and LOVED it. That's not a show that I'm going to probably see. Not my thing.
I'm with you on this, other than I did enjoy the Motley crue shows :lol before I knew it was a lot of backing tracks, but honestly, I was pretty sure there were some while watching but when you hear Vince sing, you kind of fall back into "well this has to be legit because he sounds so bad!" :lol
As for the bolded. I have a GREAT example of this from a show last weekend. The band, Set It Off, is alike a pop rock / pop punk band. They play to a backing track and they don't really hide it. I've seen the singer talk about it in interviews. But, he's live. And in this one song, he's doing the intro and the backing track is already playing as he says something kind of stupid (see for yourself) and then as the song keeps going he just can't sing because he's laughing. It's a moment where, yeah, the music isn't totally live, but you still saw a real live moment on stage. I loved it. It'll probably make my top 10 concert moments video at the end of the year.
https://youtu.be/9SwaTWK23GQ?t=1316 (https://youtu.be/9SwaTWK23GQ?t=1316) in case you want to see what I'm talking about, and if you watch till later in the video, he get's called out for that comment :lol
Your point—that spontaneous can happen even with backing tracks—is well said.
But, watching that video, I feel like I was watching something more inline with N'Sync than, say, a rock band (hope that doesn't offend...just what it sounded like even if they did have guitars).
The expectations are VASTLY different depending on the genre. Go to a hip-hop show and no one's gonna be pissed about the backing tracks, but in the context of an old-school rock band, well, that's where I think the issue is for most fans (or posters on this board).
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Your point—that spontaneous can happen even with backing tracks—is well said.
But, watching that video, I feel like I was watching something more inline with N'Sync than, say, a rock band (hope that doesn't offend...just what it sounded like even if they did have guitars).
The expectations are VASTLY different depending on the genre. Go to a hip-hop show and no one's gonna be pissed about the backing tracks, but in the context of an old-school rock band, well, that's where I think the issue is for most fans (or posters on this board).
Yeah, Set It Off is not far off from being a "boy band" as my gf calls them. If I played you a different song you'd say "pop punk" but they are basically pop in my mind and I"m pretty sure one of the two guitarist's amp's is off :lol As to your second point, that's what I was trying to say the other day. Genre kind of matters in terms of people's response. I don't think anyone besides me in that venue cared too much about the backing tracks. (and I didn't care too much, I'm familiar with the band, it was no surprise, but the first time I saw them I was like wtf??? since they opened for a fully live punk band).
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Well, you guys are now talking about the distinctions between supplemental and fundamental. You don't go see Eminem show to see that keyboardist lay down that exquisite beat. :) You're going to hear him spit truth, and as long as THAT is live, I see no issue.
I won't continue to talk about Motley, because I haven't seen them on this tour. But I'm not as lenient if a guy or girl stops signing physically, but you still hear the vocal as if they were still singing.
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But I'm not as lenient if a guy or girl stops signing physically, but you still hear the vocal as if they were still singing.
Yeah, this for sure.
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Well, you guys are now talking about the distinctions between supplemental and fundamental. You don't go see Eminem show to see that keyboardist lay down that exquisite beat. :) You're going to hear him spit truth, and as long as THAT is live, I see no issue.
I won't continue to talk about Motley, because I haven't seen them on this tour. But I'm not as lenient if a guy or girl stops signing physically, but you still hear the vocal as if they were still singing.
I will say though. There is a big difference of energy and vibe when a Hip-Hop artist has a backing band. Compared to when they have a DJ. Both types of shows are an entirely different vibe. For a show with a live band, it's about the music and it almost feels like a party where everyone is there to enjoy the music and have a good time. With a DJ set, it's more about the skill of rapping, and hearing the rapper rap. It's still a party vibe, but it's more about jamming out and hearing the rapper do what they do best.
This is the same for Pop artists as well. I actually prefer a lot of live versions from big Pop acts such as Justin Bieber and Demi Lovato. What's great about their shows with a live band is the band is actually live. The artist will also give recognition to the live band by letting play extended sections or even add some solo sections, even if they're short. But also, they do what JLB did during this tour. They have a backing track they harmonize with and they will let it play it's backing tracks while they dance, or do some stage production stuff, but will still sing along live, there's a difference I can pick up that tells me they're singing live.
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What are you guys talking about? JP is clearly singing the harmonies on the second leg of this tour and is very audible.
They actually listened to the fans after the first leg and ditched most of the backing tracks. JP is doing a good job with this.
Just want to second this as I fear this post got missed. While the backing vocal tracks were an issue on the first leg, when I saw them in Birmingham, UK earlier this year the only backing vocal you could hear was JP, live and (finally) audible.
So these concerns WERE addressed. Not sure if this has carried forward to the Asia leg.
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I've finally caught up on how this conversation has progressed, and with great interest, and, wow! Most here do really prefer shows that are unpolished. I'm trying but I still can't get my head around it. I realize I'm in the vast minority here, but I'm actually mildly annoyed by those moments in shows that are as wild and untamed as some of the moments described about other bands. I wouldn't pay good money to see a band member drunk, or making unforgiveable mistakes that make the music sound like noise instead of music. I mean yeah, even when my beloved James is talking too much onstage or practically choking on his gum (may heaven forbid), I'm sitting there rolling my eyes, like, on with it already, lol. I bought a ticket to see the best moments my favorite band can bring, and I expect it to be polished. This is extremely high level music, not a garage band by any stretch, these are virtuoso musicians with classical training and, at least in my mind, I expect an extremely high level of polish. To me, that's true professionalism. So I have absolutely no problems with a planned and pristine show.
I don't know; I see those moments happening less and less the more the show is pre-planned. That's not BAD: plays and operas are pre-planned and they are - or can be - wildly entertaining (Hamilton).
I can kinda see where some fans may view those "unplanned" moments as somewhat endearing and memorable. But I do appreciate them being kept to a minimum in favor of the polished performance that I described above. But you mentioned "plays and operas" and, that's actually the background I'm coming from. And I know for a fact that those singers, for all the planning and polishing, are singing. So consider the source I guess, these are just the snooty ramblings of a musical theater snob (Sorry not sorry). :rollin
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I've finally caught up on how this conversation has progressed, and with great interest, and, wow! Most here do really prefer shows that are unpolished. I'm trying but I still can't get my head around it. I realize I'm in the vast minority here, but I'm actually mildly annoyed by those moments in shows that are as wild and untamed as some of the moments described about other bands. I wouldn't pay good money to see a band member drunk, or making unforgiveable mistakes that make the music sound like noise instead of music. I mean yeah, even when my beloved James is talking too much onstage or practically choking on his gum (may heaven forbid), I'm sitting there rolling my eyes, like, on with it already, lol. I bought a ticket to see the best moments my favorite band can bring, and I expect it to be polished. This is extremely high level music, not a garage band by any stretch, these are virtuoso musicians with classical training and, at least in my mind, I expect an extremely high level of polish. To me, that's true professionalism. So I have absolutely no problems with a planned and pristine show.
I don't know; I see those moments happening less and less the more the show is pre-planned. That's not BAD: plays and operas are pre-planned and they are - or can be - wildly entertaining (Hamilton).
I can kinda see where some fans may view those "unplanned" moments as somewhat endearing and memorable. But I do appreciate them being kept to a minimum in favor of the polished performance that I described above. But you mentioned "plays and operas" and, that's actually the background I'm coming from. And I know for a fact that those singers, for all the planning and polishing, are singing. So consider the source I guess, these are just the snooty ramblings of a musical theater snob (Sorry not sorry). :rollin
I get that. I disagree with it, but I get it. However, I'm sure you'll agree that different genres are held to different standards and expectations. If I go see Phantom of the Opera, or La Boheme, I'm not really going to see those specific performers or cast, I'm going to hear/see the piece and those people are merely the temporary people performing it.
Similarly, if the actor playing Erik, for instance, gives even two or three performances as terrible as many of James' has been recently, that dude gets axed and replaced. People don't go see a shoddy vocal Phantom performance out of their undying love for that actor.
So if DT were holding themselves to the standards of a play/musical/opera, James would have been kicked out and replaced years ago, because it would be all about the music and not the individuals. However, that's not their standard, and it's clearly not anyone else' standard. So people are going to expect what they do and be happy or upset with what they are.
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A lot of good, really intelligent discussion the last few pages but I guess the bottom line for me is: if somebody told me it didn't bother them that their favorite rock band totally faked a live show, I'd never take a word they said seriously again, on any topic. I mean, I'm supposed to trust a recommendation they make for a good restaurant or good movie?
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Not to be too critical, I think chewing gum while singing on stage should be a big NO-NO! It looks awkward and I doubt it's helping him sing any better. I wonder if a vocal coach actually advised him to do this?
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Not to be too critical, I think chewing gum while singing on stage should be a big NO-NO! It looks awkward and I doubt it's helping him sing any better. I wonder if a vocal coach actually advised him to do this?
Lots of older musicians do this. I think it helps generate saliva which helps their performance. If it were me, I would have choked on that gum within the first verse.
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Similarly, if the actor playing Erik, for instance, gives even two or three performances as terrible as many of James' has been recently, that dude gets axed and replaced. People don't go see a shoddy vocal Phantom performance out of their undying love for that actor.
Agreeing to disagree with your (and others') take on this, I respect it fully as a differing POV and this has been an interesting conversation. But I do need to tell you that with your mention of "Erik" and "James" in the same sentence, now all I can think of is James playing the Phantom 🔥 (sorry, lol, this is just how my brain works). ✨ Congratulations, you've given me my happy thought for the day.
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I've finally caught up on how this conversation has progressed, and with great interest, and, wow! Most here do really prefer shows that are unpolished. I'm trying but I still can't get my head around it. I realize I'm in the vast minority here, but I'm actually mildly annoyed by those moments in shows that are as wild and untamed as some of the moments described about other bands. I wouldn't pay good money to see a band member drunk, or making unforgiveable mistakes that make the music sound like noise instead of music. I mean yeah, even when my beloved James is talking too much onstage or practically choking on his gum (may heaven forbid), I'm sitting there rolling my eyes, like, on with it already, lol. I bought a ticket to see the best moments my favorite band can bring, and I expect it to be polished. This is extremely high level music, not a garage band by any stretch, these are virtuoso musicians with classical training and, at least in my mind, I expect an extremely high level of polish. To me, that's true professionalism. So I have absolutely no problems with a planned and pristine show.
I don't know; I see those moments happening less and less the more the show is pre-planned. That's not BAD: plays and operas are pre-planned and they are - or can be - wildly entertaining (Hamilton).
I can kinda see where some fans may view those "unplanned" moments as somewhat endearing and memorable. But I do appreciate them being kept to a minimum in favor of the polished performance that I described above. But you mentioned "plays and operas" and, that's actually the background I'm coming from. And I know for a fact that those singers, for all the planning and polishing, are singing. So consider the source I guess, these are just the snooty ramblings of a musical theater snob (Sorry not sorry). :rollin
I get that. I disagree with it, but I get it. However, I'm sure you'll agree that different genres are held to different standards and expectations. If I go see Phantom of the Opera, or La Boheme, I'm not really going to see those specific performers or cast, I'm going to hear/see the piece and those people are merely the temporary people performing it.
Similarly, if the actor playing Erik, for instance, gives even two or three performances as terrible as many of James' has been recently, that dude gets axed and replaced. People don't go see a shoddy vocal Phantom performance out of their undying love for that actor.
So if DT were holding themselves to the standards of a play/musical/opera, James would have been kicked out and replaced years ago, because it would be all about the music and not the individuals. However, that's not their standard, and it's clearly not anyone else' standard. So people are going to expect what they do and be happy or upset with what they are.
But this also speaks to how you can't please everyone. Motley Crue (I said I wasn't going to MENTION them!) are certainly doing their part to make sure those that want a more polished show get it. Maybe Kiss, too. Fair enough. Every band has their sort of angle on that; apparently none of you have ever seen the Dead! "Ramshackle" is, on some nights, being kind. Zeppelin too. For those that want something more... consistent, there's always Pink Floyd.
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Similarly, if the actor playing Erik, for instance, gives even two or three performances as terrible as many of James' has been recently, that dude gets axed and replaced. People don't go see a shoddy vocal Phantom performance out of their undying love for that actor.
Agreeing to disagree with your (and others') take on this, I respect it fully as a differing POV and this has been an interesting conversation. But I do need to tell you that with your mention of "Erik" and "James" in the same sentence, now all I can think of is James playing the Phantom 🔥 (sorry, lol, this is just how my brain works). ✨ Congratulations, you've given me my happy thought for the day.
I'm not sure you can disagree with my take. Unless you have evidence of Broadway plays keeping around singers doing awful jobs out of dedication to that singer.
But I'd actually love to hear James 20 years ago doing Phantom. That would be cool.
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Similarly, if the actor playing Erik, for instance, gives even two or three performances as terrible as many of James' has been recently, that dude gets axed and replaced. People don't go see a shoddy vocal Phantom performance out of their undying love for that actor.
Agreeing to disagree with your (and others') take on this, I respect it fully as a differing POV and this has been an interesting conversation. But I do need to tell you that with your mention of "Erik" and "James" in the same sentence, now all I can think of is James playing the Phantom 🔥 (sorry, lol, this is just how my brain works). ✨ Congratulations, you've given me my happy thought for the day.
I'm not sure you can disagree with my take. Unless you have evidence of Broadway plays keeping around singers doing awful jobs out of dedication to that singer.
But I'd actually love to hear James 20 years ago doing Phantom. That would be cool.
To add another element to this, Adami, can you imagine a broadway lead being allowed to dramatically change the vocal melodies to key numbers in Phantom?
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So it seems the standard for many fans is that they want the instrumental music to be perfect, polished, pristine, and exactly like the album, and then James can do whatever.
I guess, in the end, I don't really care. I haven't seen DT live in over a decade because their live shows simply don't speak to me anymore. So as long as the fans going are having a good time and getting what they want, that's all that matters. James doing well or poorly doesn't impact me or my desire to see them.
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So it seems the standard for many fans is that they want the instrumental music to be perfect, polished, pristine, and exactly like the album, and then James can do whatever.
Perhaps you aren't referring to me, but in case you are, I was in agreement with your post regarding Broadway singers (my point is, JLB as he currently performs would not make it on Broadway).
I also feel like the consensus is either split or the opposite, as many of us JLB supporters have begun to throw in the towel.
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So it seems the standard for many fans is that they want the instrumental music to be perfect, polished, pristine, and exactly like the album, and then James can do whatever.
Perhaps you aren't referring to me, but in case you are, I was in agreement with your post regarding Broadway singers (my point is, JLB as he currently performs would not make it on Broadway).
I also feel like the consensus is either split or the opposite, as many of us JLB supporters have begun to throw in the towel.
Oh yea, not referring to you.
And while people here may be vocal about JLB, their concert attendance seems fine and the people going seem quite happy with how the shows are.
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The TOTW Tour has officially come to an end, since they already played the show in Indonesia. I hope we get some sort of live release from this tour, even if it comes through the LNFA, though they're taking a lot more "free" months with those lately.
I also hope they replace all the non AVFTTOTW songs from the setlist with a fresh new set for the DreamSonic tour.
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So it seems the standard for many fans is that they want the instrumental music to be perfect, polished, pristine, and exactly like the album, and then James can do whatever.
Perhaps you aren't referring to me, but in case you are, I was in agreement with your post regarding Broadway singers (my point is, JLB as he currently performs would not make it on Broadway).
I also feel like the consensus is either split or the opposite, as many of us JLB supporters have begun to throw in the towel.
100% accurate and I would add that what we're experiencing now wouldn't be accepted on nearly any stage in ANY genre: this is a peculiarity of the genre and more to the point of the circumstances of the band.
A person who cannot execute vocal lines consistently each and every night would not be hired even as a back up singer to a pop, country, or blues act. The music business is just that: a business where staff tend to be retained or let go based on performance. As you allude, there is no chance in hell a Broadway performance would make such a person the focal point of the show and then try to charge customers $300 a ticket. We might as well just ignore any comparison to classical music because one or two lousy shows would be enough to get you canned at the Met (not that you would even get in the door). That is an entity that exists to showcase the best in the world. The idea that they'd be exempt from executing the notes of something as difficult as Pull Me Under because it's 'too difficult' at age 60 is insane. Yes, we do notice some of the opera stars fall a little with age, but overall the standard they're being held to is so high compared to the vocalist of DT.
What we have here is a matter of loyalty. The band is able to provide this loyalty because they are so established and probably nearing the end. Furthermore, every other aspect of the musical production is holding up perfectly. This is a very unique situation within the broader industry. Bands like DT or Motley can do this, but most cannot afford to have their lead singer go out there and vastly underperform every night and just pretend like there is nothing wrong, if they want to sell tickets.
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I'm not sure you can disagree with my take. Unless you have evidence of Broadway plays keeping around singers doing awful jobs out of dedication to that singer.
Oh absolutely, I do agree about the Broadway thing. What I was disagreeing about was the fact that, by the way you worded it, you prefer a less-planned show for a rock band. As you said, "I disagree with it, but I get it".
This also doesn't mean that my "loyalty" to James means he can get away with just anything, though. I've expounded elsewhere about how he might address his vocal problems.
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The TOTW Tour has officially come to an end, since they already played the show in Indonesia. I hope we get some sort of live release from this tour, even if it comes through the LNFA, though they're taking a lot more "free" months with those lately.
I also hope they replace all the non AVFTTOTW songs from the setlist with a fresh new set for the DreamSonic tour.
I'm hoping for a live release, too.
I also hope that they change up the setlist, but keep Answering the Call for the US audiences.
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I've finally caught up on how this conversation has progressed, and with great interest, and, wow! Most here do really prefer shows that are unpolished. I'm trying but I still can't get my head around it. I realize I'm in the vast minority here, but I'm actually mildly annoyed by those moments in shows that are as wild and untamed as some of the moments described about other bands. I wouldn't pay good money to see a band member drunk, or making unforgiveable mistakes that make the music sound like noise instead of music. I mean yeah, even when my beloved James is talking too much onstage or practically choking on his gum (may heaven forbid), I'm sitting there rolling my eyes, like, on with it already, lol. I bought a ticket to see the best moments my favorite band can bring, and I expect it to be polished. This is extremely high level music, not a garage band by any stretch, these are virtuoso musicians with classical training and, at least in my mind, I expect an extremely high level of polish. To me, that's true professionalism. So I have absolutely no problems with a planned and pristine show.
I don't think you are alone in wanted to see a perfect and polished show. In fact, I'd say that's why seeing DT is so impressive because of how amazing and spot on the band really is on playing the crazy complicated music. For me, we have the album for the perfect product of music. I do expect a great execution of the music live too, but it doesn't need to be perfect and a lot of times those imperfections are what make your show unique and makes it feel more real and personal.
Having said this, Haken last night were so spectacular live. Sounded basically perfect to me and were 100% live. But they did have a drum issue in the first song and because of it, they replayed the ending twice :lol I wish I caught it on video, because moments like that are what I thrive for in a show. Shit happens, such is life, but the way we respond to it shows our character sometimes.
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I'm not sure you can disagree with my take. Unless you have evidence of Broadway plays keeping around singers doing awful jobs out of dedication to that singer.
Oh absolutely, I do agree about the Broadway thing. What I was disagreeing about was the fact that, by the way you worded it, you prefer a less-planned show for a rock band. As you said, "I disagree with it, but I get it".
This also doesn't mean that my "loyalty" to James means he can get away with just anything, though. I've expounded elsewhere about how he might address his vocal problems.
Ohhh gotcha. Makes sense!
Regarding your "loyalty" to James. I mean, I know you'd like him to improve, but if he doesn't.....would you stop supporting him and the band?
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I don't think you are alone in wanted to see a perfect and polished show. In fact, I'd say that's why seeing DT is so impressive because of how amazing and spot on the band really is on playing the crazy complicated music. For me, we have the album for the perfect product of music. I do expect a great execution of the music live too, but it doesn't need to be perfect and a lot of times those imperfections are what make your show unique and makes it feel more real and personal.
Having said this, Haken last night were so spectacular live. Sounded basically perfect to me and were 100% live. But they did have a drum issue in the first song and because of it, they replayed the ending twice :lol I wish I caught it on video, because moments like that are what I thrive for in a show. Shit happens, such is life, but the way we respond to it shows our character sometimes.
I like this, I get what you're saying. Great post! 😎
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Regarding your "loyalty" to James. I mean, I know you'd like him to improve, but if he doesn't.....would you stop supporting him and the band?
I would not. I truly do want what's best for him and his voice, but at that point, I think I would have to reach the place that some here have come to, a sort of "understanding" that this is just the way it is. Ultimately, it is his choice whether or not to improve, and not one of us can affect that. But it would not change my love for the band. This is some of my favorite music on earth, and nothing will change that.
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Regarding your "loyalty" to James. I mean, I know you'd like him to improve, but if he doesn't.....would you stop supporting him and the band?
I would not. I truly do want what's best for him and his voice, but at that point, I think I would have to reach the place that some here have come to, a sort of "understanding" that this is just the way it is. Ultimately, it is his choice whether or not to improve, and not one of us can affect that. But it would not change my love for the band. This is some of my favorite music on earth, and nothing will change that.
I gotcha. I respect that, and it’s what I meant when I say he can get away with whatever. It makes no difference if he improves or even gets worse. You’re still supporting him because of your loyalty to him and the band. I get that. But it also offers no insensitive to the band to do anything to improve.
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I also hope they replace all the non AVFTTOTW songs from the setlist with a fresh new set for the DreamSonic tour.
I have my doubts about that. They're likely in a comfort zone with the songs they are warmed up on right now. It's a pretty short time to put a dramatic change to the setlist. They are more than capable of that, but It might be a lot of pressure considering how soon Dreamsonic kicks off.
It would be cool to have a couple of light hearted fun type songs in the setlist though. Viper King comes to mind for sure! :coolio
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The best DT shows I've ever seen were the ones where there was spontaneity, unpredictability, raw energy and excitement.
The worst DT shows I've seen have been the ones where I may as well have just stayed home and listened to the CD.
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I gotcha. I respect that, and it’s what I meant when I say he can get away with whatever.
Well, not really? It's disappointing to hear yet another less-than stellar performance full of vocal faux pas. And I hurt for him whenever I read all those nasty comments.
But it also offers no insensitive to the band to do anything to improve.
In a way, aren't those negative reviews enough to make him want to get back on top of his game? If that doesn't even do it, then we can assume that truly it is his choice.
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I gotcha. I respect that, and it’s what I meant when I say he can get away with whatever.
Well, not really? It's disappointing to hear yet another less-than stellar performance full of vocal faux pas. And I hurt for him whenever I read all those nasty comments.
But it also offers no insensitive to the band to do anything to improve.
In a way, aren't those negative reviews enough to make him want to get back on top of his game? If that doesn't even do it, then we can assume that truly it is his choice.
But how is that not him getting away with it? You're still financially supporting him, no matter what he does.
If I had a job and whether I did a great job or an awful job, I still got paid the same but maybe other employees silently were disappointed, I'd say I could get away with whatever. You know?
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I've been thinking about this and - and I think I alluded to this - I think the play/Broadway references are misguided. This ISN'T Broadway. "Hamilton" is "Hamilton" because it's "HAMILTON", not necessarily because of, say, Christopher Jackson, no matter how fucking amazing that guy is/was in that role. There WILL, 100%, be "Hamilton's" without him, just as there are Jesus Christ Superstar's without Ted and Ian.
This is different, I think.
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I've been thinking about this and - and I think I alluded to this - I think the play/Broadway references are misguided. This ISN'T Broadway. "Hamilton" is "Hamilton" because it's "HAMILTON", not necessarily because of, say, Christopher Jackson, no matter how fucking amazing that guy is/was in that role. There WILL, 100%, be "Hamilton's" without him, just as there are Jesus Christ Superstar's without Ted and Ian.
This is different, I think.
Christopher Jackson was so damn good.
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I've been thinking about this and - and I think I alluded to this - I think the play/Broadway references are misguided. This ISN'T Broadway. "Hamilton" is "Hamilton" because it's "HAMILTON", not necessarily because of, say, Christopher Jackson, no matter how fucking amazing that guy is/was in that role. There WILL, 100%, be "Hamilton's" without him, just as there are Jesus Christ Superstar's without Ted and Ian.
This is different, I think.
Christopher Jackson was so damn good.
Word on that.
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Christopher Jackson to replace James? Hmmm. That’s an interesting idea you have.
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But how is that not him getting away with it? You're still financially supporting him, no matter what he does.
If I had a job and whether I did a great job or an awful job, I still got paid the same but maybe other employees silently were disappointed, I'd say I could get away with whatever. You know?
I understand what you mean, but are you suggesting a boycott, then? That we as fans simply vote with our wallets, so to speak, just stop buying tickets, in the hopes that would induce the band to provide him with an (admittedly much-needed) intervention?
I still love the band and their music as a whole package, so I will continue to support them, yes. Whatever they allow him to get away with, if they choose not to intervene and allow it, then that's kinda on them.
But I agree it leaves us in a sticky position. What can you do in that case except decide to still see your favorites, despite, or not. My choice is the former, because I enjoy these shows. I wasn't there in 1992, I have only as of yet seen them a handful of times by comparison with many here, and I'm personally gonna enjoy it as long as I can. I can respect that it may be a different decision for those who have been there since the beginning.
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I've been thinking about this and - and I think I alluded to this - I think the play/Broadway references are misguided. This ISN'T Broadway. "Hamilton" is "Hamilton" because it's "HAMILTON", not necessarily because of, say, Christopher Jackson, no matter how fucking amazing that guy is/was in that role. There WILL, 100%, be "Hamilton's" without him, just as there are Jesus Christ Superstar's without Ted and Ian.
This is different, I think.
It is different in this regard, yes, because (at least IMO) there wouldn't be DT without James. While I would love to go back in time and see Phantom with Michael Crawford, it's still Phantom and I've seen it many times with others singing the role. But I wouldn't want to see someone else trying to fill James' shoes. Because, put succinctly, no one can.
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But how is that not him getting away with it? You're still financially supporting him, no matter what he does.
If I had a job and whether I did a great job or an awful job, I still got paid the same but maybe other employees silently were disappointed, I'd say I could get away with whatever. You know?
I understand what you mean, but are you suggesting a boycott, then? That we as fans simply vote with our wallets, so to speak, just stop buying tickets, in the hopes that would induce the band to provide him with an (admittedly much-needed) intervention?
I still love the band and their music as a whole package, so I will continue to support them, yes. Whatever they allow him to get away with, if they choose not to intervene and allow it, then that's kinda on them.
But I agree it leaves us in a sticky position. What can you do in that case except decide to still see your favorites, despite, or not. My choice is the former, because I enjoy these shows. I wasn't there in 1992, I have only as of yet seen them a handful of times by comparison with many here, and I'm personally gonna enjoy it as long as I can. I can respect that it may be a different decision for those who have been there since the beginning.
I'm not suggesting anyone do anything other than what they want. You want to support the band no matter what? Have at it. I want to not support the band because I don't connect with them anymore? Cool too.
I was just pointing out the situation as it is. I obviously want everyone to be happy and do whatever they feel is best.
Except Stadler.
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I still support the band financially because I think there is something special about their music. I have never liked the vocal but have learned to live with it. It's been a particularly tough stretch the last 2 tours, but if I made it this long what's another couple years? All comes down to whether you're really listening to DT for the vocal or not and a lot of us either have never cared for it or have come to expect this. Those who just cannot stand it dropped off the wagon.
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I'm not suggesting anyone do anything other than what they want. You want to support the band no matter what? Have at it. I want to not support the band because I don't connect with them anymore? Cool too.
I was just pointing out the situation as it is. I obviously want everyone to be happy and do whatever they feel is best.
Of course. 🙂
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But how is that not him getting away with it? You're still financially supporting him, no matter what he does.
If I had a job and whether I did a great job or an awful job, I still got paid the same but maybe other employees silently were disappointed, I'd say I could get away with whatever. You know?
I understand what you mean, but are you suggesting a boycott, then? That we as fans simply vote with our wallets, so to speak, just stop buying tickets, in the hopes that would induce the band to provide him with an (admittedly much-needed) intervention?
I still love the band and their music as a whole package, so I will continue to support them, yes. Whatever they allow him to get away with, if they choose not to intervene and allow it, then that's kinda on them.
But I agree it leaves us in a sticky position. What can you do in that case except decide to still see your favorites, despite, or not. My choice is the former, because I enjoy these shows. I wasn't there in 1992, I have only as of yet seen them a handful of times by comparison with many here, and I'm personally gonna enjoy it as long as I can. I can respect that it may be a different decision for those who have been there since the beginning.
As someone who has been accused more than once by several people in my circle that I <dramatic air quotes> over think things <more air quotes>, I think you need to just make the decision you want in the moment.
I got into DT because of James, so he's a BIG part of why I like them. I prefer the studio work at this point; I'm not getting setlists I flip over, and what I do get is often compromised by SOMETHING. But "voting with your wallet" is like talking with smoke signals. Me: I probably wouldn't have gone to the AVFTTOTW show if it wasn't for the group meet up. I wanted to hang with my friends at a show for a band I REALLY like. Would not have gone alone (as I did to the MP/JP shows earlier). I'm going in June to see friends, Devin Townsend, and DT in that order. It's not like I'm going to bail after Devi; I'm in for the duration and I just KNOW I'm going to have a great time, but what does the band get to take from my attendance at their last two shows?
Certainly NOT that "all is well in James land", just that, with the totality of the variables, he's not yet a dealbreaker. That's a PRETTY damn low bar (my actual bar is higher, but that's all the message the BAND can take without meeting me and asking me). That's a meaningless vote, IMO.
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Sorry DT with click has made James worse.
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But how is that not him getting away with it? You're still financially supporting him, no matter what he does.
If I had a job and whether I did a great job or an awful job, I still got paid the same but maybe other employees silently were disappointed, I'd say I could get away with whatever. You know?
I understand what you mean, but are you suggesting a boycott, then? That we as fans simply vote with our wallets, so to speak, just stop buying tickets, in the hopes that would induce the band to provide him with an (admittedly much-needed) intervention?
I still love the band and their music as a whole package, so I will continue to support them, yes. Whatever they allow him to get away with, if they choose not to intervene and allow it, then that's kinda on them.
But I agree it leaves us in a sticky position. What can you do in that case except decide to still see your favorites, despite, or not. My choice is the former, because I enjoy these shows. I wasn't there in 1992, I have only as of yet seen them a handful of times by comparison with many here, and I'm personally gonna enjoy it as long as I can. I can respect that it may be a different decision for those who have been there since the beginning.
As someone who has been accused more than once by several people in my circle that I <dramatic air quotes> over think things <more air quotes>, I think you need to just make the decision you want in the moment.
I got into DT because of James, so he's a BIG part of why I like them. I prefer the studio work at this point; I'm not getting setlists I flip over, and what I do get is often compromised by SOMETHING. But "voting with your wallet" is like talking with smoke signals. Me: I probably wouldn't have gone to the AVFTTOTW show if it wasn't for the group meet up. I wanted to hang with my friends at a show for a band I REALLY like. Would not have gone alone (as I did to the MP/JP shows earlier). I'm going in June to see friends, Devin Townsend, and DT in that order. It's not like I'm going to bail after Devi; I'm in for the duration and I just KNOW I'm going to have a great time, but what does the band get to take from my attendance at their last two shows?
Certainly NOT that "all is well in James land", just that, with the totality of the variables, he's not yet a dealbreaker. That's a PRETTY damn low bar (my actual bar is higher, but that's all the message the BAND can take without meeting me and asking me). That's a meaningless vote, IMO.
If I were able to ask the band one question about JLB, it would be...Why do you consider JLB to be an integral member of the band?
The guys could very well consider JLB's tone of voice to be the tone that makes Dream Theater what they are. To them, the band wouldn't be Dream Theater without him. After having to deal with so many singers and then finally finding the one that fits and gels with everyone else, why would the band want to suddenly end that relationship?
If the guys don't want to say anything about JLBs voice, what gives us the right to demand them to tell us?
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Sorry DT with click has made James worse.
Interesting perspective. Care to expand on it?
For me, DT are definitely less interesting with a click, that's for sure. But I'm not sure how a click makes James worse.
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If the guys don't want to say anything about JLBs voice, what gives us the right to demand them to tell us?
Because they expect us to pay exorbitant prices for the “privilege” of listening to him.
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If the guys don't want to say anything about JLBs voice, what gives us the right to demand them to tell us?
Because they expect us to pay exorbitant prices for the “privilege” of listening to him.
Agreed. Plus, we aren't even asking the band to say anything. We are just expressing our exuberance or frustration as fans. Once you put yourself out there to the public, you understand there is going to be feedback both positive and negative. That's just how it goes. There is no special 'right' required to express ones opinion.
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If the guys don't want to say anything about JLBs voice, what gives us the right to demand them to tell us?
Because they expect us to pay exorbitant prices for the “privilege” of listening to him.
Agreed. Plus, we aren't even asking the band to say anything. We are just expressing our exuberance or frustration as fans. Once you put yourself out there to the public, you understand there is going to be feedback both positive and negative. That's just how it goes. There is no special 'right' required to express ones opinion.
I completely understand that.
Apparently, I just perceive music entirely different from most people. I know the reality that something is up with JLB's voice, that in itself is not going to put me off from seeing the band live. That is due to my perception of the band being a lot more than just about the vocals. There's reasons why I love this band a lot.
Vocals/Singing are just one aspect of the entire whole of music for me. There's also the tones, the way the music progresses, the emotions of these progressions, the meanings of the words, how the music creates an atmosphere to present the words, how the music along with the words help to explain what the song is trying to say.
I love the way Dream Theater does all of those things. I don't know why, but the band just hits that spot for me. Even though I wish the band would address the situation with JLB's vocals, I dont care if they don't address it at all and continue the way they are right now. I never had a problem with JLB's backing tracks. Knowing that the songs have some great vocal melodies, it would be nice if JLB wouldn't stray too far away from them when he "alters" certain vocal melodies. That way I don't sound off when I'm also singing along, because I love the melodies.
Also, personally, i wish the audience would also sing along more. The band has plenty of these moments and it was unfortunate the one song that ends with a big audience participation moment, wasn't sung by the audience at Mesa, but it was sure sung in Austin. Bands love it when an audience sings the songs. It's a sign of unity and there is this tone the human collective has, and it has power that just sounds glorious and majestic.
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That’s a good point, more audience participation would be awesome. Too bad most DT crowds are too chill.
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That’s a good point, more audience participation would be awesome. Too bad most DT crowds are too chill.
*cough*.... blame the all-seated venues... ;D *cough*
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That’s a good point, more audience participation would be awesome. Too bad most DT crowds are too chill.
I don't entirely agree with this. People at the London show were still banging their heads at the right moment over those "right" songs. I think the setlist dictates how the audience reacts to a certain degree.
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That’s a good point, more audience participation would be awesome. Too bad most DT crowds are too chill.
. I think the setlist dictates how the audience reacts to a certain degree.
At least six degrees.. 🤪
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That’s a good point, more audience participation would be awesome. Too bad most DT crowds are too chill.
. I think the setlist dictates how the audience reacts to a certain degree.
At least six degrees.. 🤪
:lol :rollin :lol
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Apparently, I just perceive music entirely different from most people. I know the reality that something is up with JLB's voice, that in itself is not going to put me off from seeing the band live. That is due to my perception of the band being a lot more than just about the vocals. There's reasons why I love this band a lot.
Vocals/Singing are just one aspect of the entire whole of music for me. There's also the tones, the way the music progresses, the emotions of these progressions, the meanings of the words, how the music creates an atmosphere to present the words, how the music along with the words help to explain what the song is trying to say.
I love the way Dream Theater does all of those things. I don't know why, but the band just hits that spot for me. Even though I wish the band would address the situation with JLB's vocals, I dont care if they don't address it at all and continue the way they are right now. I never had a problem with JLB's backing tracks. Knowing that the songs have some great vocal melodies, it would be nice if JLB wouldn't stray too far away from them when he "alters" certain vocal melodies. That way I don't sound off when I'm also singing along, because I love the melodies.
This is a worthy post. Aside from the whole "audience participation" angle (which I have to say that this is very individual - as an introvert, I will be standing but you won't find me singing or clapping along, but instead deeply enjoying the entire experience by taking it all in), there's something about the whole "vocals" argument that I feel needs mentioning, in general.
Now this is not to say that I think everything is perfect with James (it's not, and as I always say, I just want the best for him and his angelic voice - he will always be my favorite). But I was watching another band's concert on YouTube last night. I won't say whom, because I don't want to come across as unnecessarily critical, but this is a band that is at least 15 to 20 years younger than DT, a band whose studio albums are brilliant and I really enjoy. But honestly, the singer's live delivery really disappointed me. As in, he sounds like he just gargled with nails level of disappointing. And the thought that hit me in that moment was this...
That we Dream Theater fans are so freaking spoiled.
Spoiled, rotten. To the core. We are so used to the sheer high level of music, of technicality, of precision, of perfection that our favorite band delivers, that it's just so incongruous and glaringly obvious to us if even one little thing is out of place. Now that's not to say that there isn't a problem, or room for improvement, or something that needs attention. It's just so jarring because we're so used to the highest level of perfection that five humans under heaven can possibly create.
I just wanted to come in and drop this little perspective bomb, just for everyone's consideration.
(Myself included.)
Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.
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Not sure I agree with that take. I won't speak for anyone else, but going to a concert to hear technical, precision music played to perfection sounds super boring. The beauty of life is imperfections. Nothing in life is perfect, not even Dream Theater.
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Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.
We're criticizing other mere mortals.
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Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.
We're criticizing other mere mortals.
This.
JLB's vocal issues haven't yet been enough to dissuade me from seeing the band, but I have no problem at all for whom that threshold has already been crossed.
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Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.
We're criticizing other mere mortals.
This.
JLB's vocal issues haven't yet been enough to dissuade me from seeing the band, but I have no problem at all for whom that threshold has already been crossed.
Yea, and I'll add that while I have no desire to see DT live for the last 10 years, it has nothing to do with JLB.
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Not sure I agree with that take. I won't speak for anyone else, but going to a concert to hear technical, precision music played to perfection sounds super boring. The beauty of life is imperfections. Nothing in life is perfect, not even Dream Theater.
This, and honestly Dream Theater, for as good as they are, isn't the only technically proficient band out there. Go check out The Aristocrats or hell, check out Animals As Leaders who will be opening for them. Both bands would give DT a big run for the money in pure technical prowess with the added bonus of being more lively on stage.
I will concede that DT fans were spoiled with with MP in the band in the way of demos/live releases/fan interaction.
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Not sure I agree with that take. I won't speak for anyone else, but going to a concert to hear technical, precision music played to perfection sounds super boring. The beauty of life is imperfections. Nothing in life is perfect, not even Dream Theater.
But sometimes there's thrill in seeing something that's as close to perfection as you can get. That's why things like the Harlem Globe Trotters, the Blue Angels, Nitro Circus, and professional billiards/darts have managed to draw huge crowds for decades.
I get what you're saying, and don't really fault the view at all. I feel the exact same way about dancing. But for me, I can see hundreds of bands not be perfect just about anywhere. Dream Theater being near perfect is the draw for me. The outros to songs like TCOT, ITNOG, LTL, and Octavarium wouldn't be what they are if they weren't bordering on perfection while playing them. I can't help but think of Beyond This Life on LaB. That to me is Dream Theater being perfect. It's jaw dropping. It's like watching a kid solve a rubik's cube in 4.9 seconds or one of those magic tricks that fools Penn and Teller. They're freaks of nature at what they do, and that's worth the price of admission.
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Not sure I agree with that take. I won't speak for anyone else, but going to a concert to hear technical, precision music played to perfection sounds super boring. The beauty of life is imperfections. Nothing in life is perfect, not even Dream Theater.
But sometimes there's thrill in seeing something that's as close to perfection as you can get. That's why things Harlem Globe Trotters, the Blue Angels, Nitro Circus, and professional billiards/darts have managed to draw huge crowds for decades.
I get what you're saying, and don't really fault the view at all. I feel the exact same way about dancing. But for me, I can see hundreds of bands not be perfect just about anywhere. Dream Theater being near perfect is the draw for me. The outros to songs like TCOT, ITNOG, LTL, and Octavarium wouldn't be what they are if they weren't bordering on perfection while playing them. I can't help but think of Beyond This Life on LaB. That to me is Dream Theater being perfect. It's jaw dropping. It's like watching a kid solve a rubik's cube in 4.9 seconds or one of those magic tricks that fools Penn and Teller. They're freaks of nature at what they do, and that's worth the price of admission.
Is it possible to agree with both of you? Seriously. I LIKE the imperfections, but I see where Chino is coming from. For me it's not exactly "perfection" as much as it is "doing something I can't do". I'm not a perfect musician, at all, but what REALLY gets me about the bands I like is their ability to pivot. To own their music and their instruments. To have the balls to move on from something that goes wrong. I'm not that guy; I've seen Gene Simmons' flying rig fail TWICE, to the point he was hanging 3 to 5 feet off the stage, like an idiot. I would die. He, though, took it like a pro, and in the second instance inspired his band to give one of the best performances I've seen them give. That's not perfection, but that is - to me - the "Rubik's cube solve".
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Yeah, I share both of those opinions as well. DT are great live because of their high level of executing the music with perfection, BUT the imperfections are what make the show unique and feel more real.
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It's jaw dropping. It's like watching a kid solve a rubik's cube in 4.9 seconds or one of those magic tricks that fools Penn and Teller. They're freaks of nature at what they do, and that's worth the price of admission.
Yes! This, precisely! Thank you for saying in a few words what it took me several paragraphs to fail at saying. 🤭
And because of this being what we're used to, vs the average 'good band' generally sounding like garbage live, we notice it very sharply when something's amiss.
But by comparison, the thing in question is still far superior to the alternative.
We're just so spoiled, that we do not realize it.
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Not sure I agree with that take. I won't speak for anyone else, but going to a concert to hear technical, precision music played to perfection sounds super boring. The beauty of life is imperfections. Nothing in life is perfect, not even Dream Theater.
But sometimes there's thrill in seeing something that's as close to perfection as you can get. That's why things Harlem Globe Trotters, the Blue Angels, Nitro Circus, and professional billiards/darts have managed to draw huge crowds for decades.
I get what you're saying, and don't really fault the view at all. I feel the exact same way about dancing. But for me, I can see hundreds of bands not be perfect just about anywhere. Dream Theater being near perfect is the draw for me. The outros to songs like TCOT, ITNOG, LTL, and Octavarium wouldn't be what they are if they weren't bordering on perfection while playing them. I can't help but think of Beyond This Life on LaB. That to me is Dream Theater being perfect. It's jaw dropping. It's like watching a kid solve a rubik's cube in 4.9 seconds or one of those magic tricks that fools Penn and Teller. They're freaks of nature at what they do, and that's worth the price of admission.
Is it possible to agree with both of you? Seriously. I LIKE the imperfections, but I see where Chino is coming from. For me it's not exactly "perfection" as much as it is "doing something I can't do". I'm not a perfect musician, at all, but what REALLY gets me about the bands I like is their ability to pivot. To own their music and their instruments. To have the balls to move on from something that goes wrong. I'm not that guy; I've seen Gene Simmons' flying rig fail TWICE, to the point he was hanging 3 to 5 feet off the stage, like an idiot. I would die. He, though, took it like a pro, and in the second instance inspired his band to give one of the best performances I've seen them give. That's not perfection, but that is - to me - the "Rubik's cube solve".
I get what you are both saying, and to be honest, just about any musician up there playing is doing something I cannot :lol, so that is a low bar to clear for me, to be honest. That said, I think my view has changed a bit as I get older. While I was never a "chops first" kind of music fan - to me, the crazy playing is always best when it is the icing on the cake, not the cake, I need SONGS first and foremost - going to see musicians just stand there and play super technical stuff doesn't make for a very exciting concert from a visual standpoint, even if I love the music. And DT's stage show pales in comparison to other shows I have seen in my life, so their stage and light show is a non-factor when it comes to upgrading the overall show. As much as I often found Portnoy to be a bit annoying and bit too "look at me!", the band's current approach could use a little of that, as they look like a band that just stands there and plays now and makes little to no effort to connect with the fans.
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Priority is I want to be entertained. Right now they have two static perfectionists, two relative crowd pleasers, and an atrocious front man.
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Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.
We're criticizing other mere mortals.
We’re the ones paying $100, remember? Sheesh.
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Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.
We're criticizing other mere mortals.
We’re the ones paying $100, remember? Sheesh.
Yeah but you don't have to.
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Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.
We're criticizing other mere mortals.
We’re the ones paying $100, remember? Sheesh.
If bands could, they would definitely not be charging that much for shows. I bet anything a lot of them would not mind at all playing free shows.
The reality is, it's difficult to make a living with just making music and playing it live. Plus, it's not just paying the band that makes the ticket cost as much as it does. There's others involved in the entire process of touring besides the band, their crew, and their management. There's the issues of financial costs associated with venturing, such as how much does it cost to rent a bus, trucks to carry the stage production, those involved in making the stage designs, and the ones making the videos used in the background screens. To make up for those costs just for the pre-production of the stage presentation, they price the tickets the way they do. The ticketmaster fiasco has nothing to do with the band themselves and that's something we fans should be upset at ticketmaster for monopolizing live music. After these costs get settled, only then does the band start breaking even and making some sort of income.
Dream Theater is a well oiled machine in the music business. And I think it's quite obvious with how much control they actually have over some of these business decisions. Such as the quality of the Lost Not Forgotten Archives. With the end product, it feels as if the band just signs off on it, while they let those involved worry about these things. These are things that make you appreciate how much Mike Portnoy went out of his way to make things happen for the band. But also, there is no other musician I know of that goes as far as Mike Portnoy has in regards to understanding what the fans really want from a band. And for this, it's why I say that we Dream Theater fans were spoiled by MP when he was in the band.
Even though I really miss those things that MP did for us fans. I also appreciate what the band is doing now as well. Enough so, I would gladly pay $100 to see the band and not complain about not getting my money's worth, or being entertained enough to justify the price of the ticket.
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Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.
We're criticizing other mere mortals.
We’re the ones paying $100, remember? Sheesh.
If bands could, they would definitely not be charging that much for shows. I bet anything a lot of them would not mind at all playing free shows.
The reality is, it's difficult to make a living with just making music and playing it live. Plus, it's not just paying the band that makes the ticket cost as much as it does. There's others involved in the entire process of touring besides the band, their crew, and their management. There's the issues of financial costs associated with venturing, such as how much does it cost to rent a bus, trucks to carry the stage production, those involved in making the stage designs, and the ones making the videos used in the background screens. To make up for those costs just for the pre-production of the stage presentation, they price the tickets the way they do. The ticketmaster fiasco has nothing to do with the band themselves and that's something we fans should be upset at ticketmaster for monopolizing live music. After these costs get settled, only then does the band start breaking even and making some sort of income.
Dream Theater is a well oiled machine in the music business. And I think it's quite obvious with how much control they actually have over some of these business decisions. Such as the quality of the Lost Not Forgotten Archives. With the end product, it feels as if the band just signs off on it, while they let those involved worry about these things. These are things that make you appreciate how much Mike Portnoy went out of his way to make things happen for the band. But also, there is no other musician I know of that goes as far as Mike Portnoy has in regards to understanding what the fans really want from a band. And for this, it's why I say that we Dream Theater fans were spoiled by MP when he was in the band.
Even though I really miss those things that MP did for us fans. I also appreciate what the band is doing now as well. Enough so, I would gladly pay $100 to see the band and not complain about not getting my money's worth, or being entertained enough to justify the price of the ticket.
I kind of stopped reading after this first line.
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Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.
We're criticizing other mere mortals.
We’re the ones paying $100, remember? Sheesh.
If bands could, they would definitely not be charging that much for shows. I bet anything a lot of them would not mind at all playing free shows.
The reality is, it's difficult to make a living with just making music and playing it live. Plus, it's not just paying the band that makes the ticket cost as much as it does. There's others involved in the entire process of touring besides the band, their crew, and their management. There's the issues of financial costs associated with venturing, such as how much does it cost to rent a bus, trucks to carry the stage production, those involved in making the stage designs, and the ones making the videos used in the background screens. To make up for those costs just for the pre-production of the stage presentation, they price the tickets the way they do. The ticketmaster fiasco has nothing to do with the band themselves and that's something we fans should be upset at ticketmaster for monopolizing live music. After these costs get settled, only then does the band start breaking even and making some sort of income.
Dream Theater is a well oiled machine in the music business. And I think it's quite obvious with how much control they actually have over some of these business decisions. Such as the quality of the Lost Not Forgotten Archives. With the end product, it feels as if the band just signs off on it, while they let those involved worry about these things. These are things that make you appreciate how much Mike Portnoy went out of his way to make things happen for the band. But also, there is no other musician I know of that goes as far as Mike Portnoy has in regards to understanding what the fans really want from a band. And for this, it's why I say that we Dream Theater fans were spoiled by MP when he was in the band.
Even though I really miss those things that MP did for us fans. I also appreciate what the band is doing now as well. Enough so, I would gladly pay $100 to see the band and not complain about not getting my money's worth, or being entertained enough to justify the price of the ticket.
I super appreciate the sentiment of your post, but I could not disagree more.
Bottom line, anyone who is operating at a high level, regardless of the profession, is going to want to be paid accordingly.
Sure, there may be an outlier here and there, but 'if' the demand for an artist/writer/musician can command a certain dollar amount, the vast majority are going to gladly take every penny they can get.
As they should, because, at the end of the day, all of this (and I mean, like, 'everything' in life) is a business. Unless it's you and your friends sitting around a campfire with some guitars, music (as we know it now) is a commodity that is marketed, bought and sold with the same amount of ruthless calculation as the gas you put in your car.
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Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.
We're criticizing other mere mortals.
We’re the ones paying $100, remember? Sheesh.
If bands could, they would definitely not be charging that much for shows. I bet anything a lot of them would not mind at all playing free shows.
The reality is, it's difficult to make a living with just making music and playing it live. Plus, it's not just paying the band that makes the ticket cost as much as it does. There's others involved in the entire process of touring besides the band, their crew, and their management. There's the issues of financial costs associated with venturing, such as how much does it cost to rent a bus, trucks to carry the stage production, those involved in making the stage designs, and the ones making the videos used in the background screens. To make up for those costs just for the pre-production of the stage presentation, they price the tickets the way they do. The ticketmaster fiasco has nothing to do with the band themselves and that's something we fans should be upset at ticketmaster for monopolizing live music. After these costs get settled, only then does the band start breaking even and making some sort of income.
Dream Theater is a well oiled machine in the music business. And I think it's quite obvious with how much control they actually have over some of these business decisions. Such as the quality of the Lost Not Forgotten Archives. With the end product, it feels as if the band just signs off on it, while they let those involved worry about these things. These are things that make you appreciate how much Mike Portnoy went out of his way to make things happen for the band. But also, there is no other musician I know of that goes as far as Mike Portnoy has in regards to understanding what the fans really want from a band. And for this, it's why I say that we Dream Theater fans were spoiled by MP when he was in the band.
Even though I really miss those things that MP did for us fans. I also appreciate what the band is doing now as well. Enough so, I would gladly pay $100 to see the band and not complain about not getting my money's worth, or being entertained enough to justify the price of the ticket.
I super appreciate the sentiment of your post, but I could not disagree more.
Bottom line, anyone who is operating at a high level, regardless of the profession, is going to want to be paid accordingly.
How can somebody disagree with that when he was just stating facts? The logistics of touring is very costly, and DT shows are high caliber productions.
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Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.
We're criticizing other mere mortals.
We’re the ones paying $100, remember? Sheesh.
If bands could, they would definitely not be charging that much for shows. I bet anything a lot of them would not mind at all playing free shows.
The reality is, it's difficult to make a living with just making music and playing it live. Plus, it's not just paying the band that makes the ticket cost as much as it does. There's others involved in the entire process of touring besides the band, their crew, and their management. There's the issues of financial costs associated with venturing, such as how much does it cost to rent a bus, trucks to carry the stage production, those involved in making the stage designs, and the ones making the videos used in the background screens. To make up for those costs just for the pre-production of the stage presentation, they price the tickets the way they do. The ticketmaster fiasco has nothing to do with the band themselves and that's something we fans should be upset at ticketmaster for monopolizing live music. After these costs get settled, only then does the band start breaking even and making some sort of income.
Dream Theater is a well oiled machine in the music business. And I think it's quite obvious with how much control they actually have over some of these business decisions. Such as the quality of the Lost Not Forgotten Archives. With the end product, it feels as if the band just signs off on it, while they let those involved worry about these things. These are things that make you appreciate how much Mike Portnoy went out of his way to make things happen for the band. But also, there is no other musician I know of that goes as far as Mike Portnoy has in regards to understanding what the fans really want from a band. And for this, it's why I say that we Dream Theater fans were spoiled by MP when he was in the band.
Even though I really miss those things that MP did for us fans. I also appreciate what the band is doing now as well. Enough so, I would gladly pay $100 to see the band and not complain about not getting my money's worth, or being entertained enough to justify the price of the ticket.
I super appreciate the sentiment of your post, but I could not disagree more.
Bottom line, anyone who is operating at a high level, regardless of the profession, is going to want to be paid accordingly.
How can somebody disagree with that when he was just stating facts? The logistics of touring is very costly, and DT shows are high caliber productions.
Man, if none of us 'disagreed' around here, this place would be really stale.
For the record, "If bands could, they would definitely not be charging that much for shows. I bet anything a lot of them would not mind at all playing free shows." is not a fact, but an opinion...and one that I disagree with ;)
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Well that part of it, yes you do have a point.
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Not to pile on Ben, but there ARE bands with the clout and wherewithal to influence or drive ticket prices, and some of those are the highest tickets on the market! Hell, Roger Waters is a friggin' communist/socialist (they're not the same, but since I haven't spoken directly to Roger in a while, I'm leaving it ambiguous; either way, he's NOT a capitalist) and for a while there he had the MOST expensive tickets. Now, I get it, "being a communist/socialist" doesn't mean "I work for free", if anyone could get their arms around the chaff of the transaction costs in a concert ticket, its Roger Waters.
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There's definitely artists that do try to keep the costs down for fans (look at what The Cure has done for their tour for example) but that's not the same as playing for free. The free stuff works for younger people trying to get their music out there. But most artists on tour are professionals and professionals get paid and need/want that money.