*Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread

[gzarruk]

I just want to mention that I have gone back and forth with this album. I put it away for a few months and have come back.  I can tell they worked really hard at writing each song to have a little extra. Nothing that's repetitive or no wasted moments. I think something my favorite albums have in common is that it sounds as if they worked a little harder. They were more inspired than usual or they had something to prove. This feels like one of those. In contrast, the one I like the least is the one that seems to have some lazy writing. The only time in their career that I feel like they did that.

Which one is your least favorite?

Black Clouds and Silver Linings

Yeah, that makes sense, I can totally see what you mean there.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Something is definitely different in the songwriting because a major contributor is gone, but I don't think the arrangements are suffering in the slightest. My opinion is that the songwriting is better than *almost* ever, but I get the feeling that something is missing. MP was in the band for so long that the output is just inevitably going to change without him.

It seems to me like MP brought a degree of indulgence to the band that doesn't exist as much anymore. That's not even a criticism, I think it's really up to personal preference. For example, the middle of In the Name of God, which is this super heavy epic (both in terms of music and lyrical content) that also has a five minute instrumental section in the middle. They don't really do that these days. I think it's positive because some of those old songs kind of went off the rails, but it's also a negative because it makes everything seem a bit more predictable. Overall, it's just different, but I don't feel passionately about it one way or another.

[WilliamMunny]

Something is definitely different in the songwriting because a major contributor is gone, but I don't think the arrangements are suffering in the slightest. My opinion is that the songwriting is better than *almost* ever, but I get the feeling that something is missing. MP was in the band for so long that the output is just inevitably going to change without him.

It seems to me like MP brought a degree of indulgence to the band that doesn't exist as much anymore. That's not even a criticism, I think it's really up to personal preference. For example, the middle of In the Name of God, which is this super heavy epic (both in terms of music and lyrical content) that also has a five minute instrumental section in the middle. They don't really do that these days. I think it's positive because some of those old songs kind of went off the rails, but it's also a negative because it makes everything seem a bit more predictable. Overall, it's just different, but I don't feel passionately about it one way or another.

There's also the possibility that, had Mike stayed in the band, they would've continued on a similar trajectory to what they've done without him. Who's to say JP wouldn't have continued to grow in his role as a producer?

[hefdaddy42]

I just want to mention that I have gone back and forth with this album. I put it away for a few months and have come back.  I can tell they worked really hard at writing each song to have a little extra. Nothing that's repetitive or no wasted moments. I think something my favorite albums have in common is that it sounds as if they worked a little harder. They were more inspired than usual or they had something to prove. This feels like one of those. In contrast, the one I like the least is the one that seems to have some lazy writing. The only time in their career that I feel like they did that.

Which one is your least favorite?

Black Clouds and Silver Linings

Same.  Other than WDADU, I mean.

[Glasser]

Ouch! I love WDADU.

[bosk1]

Of course you do.  But that's a personal problem.  We don't hold it against you.

[Trav]

I just want to mention that I have gone back and forth with this album. I put it away for a few months and have come back.  I can tell they worked really hard at writing each song to have a little extra. Nothing that's repetitive or no wasted moments. I think something my favorite albums have in common is that it sounds as if they worked a little harder. They were more inspired than usual or they had something to prove. This feels like one of those. In contrast, the one I like the least is the one that seems to have some lazy writing. The only time in their career that I feel like they did that.

Which one is your least favorite?

Black Clouds and Silver Linings

Same.  Other than WDADU, I mean.

My thing is this. WDADU was their first album, besides Charlie they were like 21. They have an excuse. Making BCSL they had been writing some of the greatest music ever for 20 years. No excuse for the laziness.

[TAC]

Ouch! I love WDADU.

Me too!

[Trav]

Another cool thing for me when comparing View to DOT is the pre-release singles. Fall Into the Light is pretty good but I never had a high opinion of Untethered Angel or Paralyzed. Although I think I like the latter more than most seem to.  Those opinions have problem even waned since they were released. In the other hand, I really liked both The Alien and Invisible Monster from the get go. And they've grown on me even more since. Also they were awesome live!

[KevShmev]

Something is definitely different in the songwriting because a major contributor is gone, but I don't think the arrangements are suffering in the slightest. My opinion is that the songwriting is better than *almost* ever, but I get the feeling that something is missing. MP was in the band for so long that the output is just inevitably going to change without him.

It seems to me like MP brought a degree of indulgence to the band that doesn't exist as much anymore. That's not even a criticism, I think it's really up to personal preference. For example, the middle of In the Name of God, which is this super heavy epic (both in terms of music and lyrical content) that also has a five minute instrumental section in the middle. They don't really do that these days. I think it's positive because some of those old songs kind of went off the rails, but it's also a negative because it makes everything seem a bit more predictable. Overall, it's just different, but I don't feel passionately about it one way or another.

Personally, I think Portnoy's alleged arrangement skills are a bit overstated, and I suspect Neal Morse often lets him run with that on the albums they do together because Portnoy doesn't really write the music, so doing the arranging is his way of earning that songwriting credit (rather than just being given it because he was part of a jam that Neal or someone else then turned into a song).  I don't think it's a coincidence that DT's arrangements have been better and tightened up a bit in the Mangini era verses what they were in the 00s.  I think Portnoy has the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" mentality, which can really work at times, but not always. That shows up in the live medleys he puts together for his various bands, most of which sounds totally random and just bouncing from one thing to another with no rhyme or reason.  I remember the NMB medley sounding really good and cohesive on The Great Adventure...because it was pieced together by Bill Hubauer, not Mike Portnoy. 

[ReaPsTA]

Ouch! I love WDADU.

Me too!

THERE ARE AT LEAST THREE OF US.

[Glasser]

WDADU changed my musical world. I heard the Majesty demo right around the same time and loved it as well. There was no I&W when I got these. 

[Eldomm]

Ouch! I love WDADU.

Me too!

THERE ARE AT LEAST THREE OF US.

+1

[Stadler]

I just want to mention that I have gone back and forth with this album. I put it away for a few months and have come back.  I can tell they worked really hard at writing each song to have a little extra. Nothing that's repetitive or no wasted moments. I think something my favorite albums have in common is that it sounds as if they worked a little harder. They were more inspired than usual or they had something to prove. This feels like one of those. In contrast, the one I like the least is the one that seems to have some lazy writing. The only time in their career that I feel like they did that.

Which one is your least favorite?

Black Clouds and Silver Linings

Same.  Other than WDADU, I mean.

My thing is this. WDADU was their first album, besides Charlie they were like 21. They have an excuse. Making BCSL they had been writing some of the greatest music ever for 20 years. No excuse for the laziness.

Not to quibble with you, but assuming BC&SL isn't up to snuff - and I'm not sure I'm 100% there myself - it's not "laziness" as much as it is being "forced".  Of all the things you can accuse Dream Theater of over the years, "laziness" is not one of them.  I do think there was something to Portnoy's belief that a break was in order.  A "break" doesn't necessarily mean "do nothing, sit and play Playstation"; I think there are far too many bands in history that look back and say "if only we had stepped off the treadmill for a bit, we'd still be making music".   And some break up and regroup to make quality music (Aerosmith, Yes, Deep Purple, even Queen took short forays apart only to recharge and come back fresh). 

[TAC]

When I think of WDADU, I really just think of the songs, and how good they really are. I don't love Charlie, but the production...I really don't mind.

I mostly think the main issue with BC&SL, is that since they are all mostly long songs, if you don't love or like a couple of them, that's ends up being a large chunk of the album.

I mean, everyone has a least favorite DT album. On my least favorite DT album (FII), I still love a number of tunes.

[Trav]

I just want to mention that I have gone back and forth with this album. I put it away for a few months and have come back.  I can tell they worked really hard at writing each song to have a little extra. Nothing that's repetitive or no wasted moments. I think something my favorite albums have in common is that it sounds as if they worked a little harder. They were more inspired than usual or they had something to prove. This feels like one of those. In contrast, the one I like the least is the one that seems to have some lazy writing. The only time in their career that I feel like they did that.

Which one is your least favorite?

Black Clouds and Silver Linings

Same.  Other than WDADU, I mean.

My thing is this. WDADU was their first album, besides Charlie they were like 21. They have an excuse. Making BCSL they had been writing some of the greatest music ever for 20 years. No excuse for the laziness.

Not to quibble with you, but assuming BC&SL isn't up to snuff - and I'm not sure I'm 100% there myself - it's not "laziness" as much as it is being "forced".  Of all the things you can accuse Dream Theater of over the years, "laziness" is not one of them.  I do think there was something to Portnoy's belief that a break was in order.  A "break" doesn't necessarily mean "do nothing, sit and play Playstation"; I think there are far too many bands in history that look back and say "if only we had stepped off the treadmill for a bit, we'd still be making music".   And some break up and regroup to make quality music (Aerosmith, Yes, Deep Purple, even Queen took short forays apart only to recharge and come back fresh).

I get what you're saying, and I don't necessarily disagree with you. I just meant when multiple songs have the same generic "back and forth solo back to chorus" structure, it seems like lazy writing. They aren't like that as much since then. They worked harder to come up with better transitions. That's how I see it. It's the only release that on release day, I wasn't all that impressed.

[bosk1]

Something is definitely different in the songwriting because a major contributor is gone, but I don't think the arrangements are suffering in the slightest. My opinion is that the songwriting is better than *almost* ever, but I get the feeling that something is missing. MP was in the band for so long that the output is just inevitably going to change without him.

It seems to me like MP brought a degree of indulgence to the band that doesn't exist as much anymore. That's not even a criticism, I think it's really up to personal preference. For example, the middle of In the Name of God, which is this super heavy epic (both in terms of music and lyrical content) that also has a five minute instrumental section in the middle. They don't really do that these days. I think it's positive because some of those old songs kind of went off the rails, but it's also a negative because it makes everything seem a bit more predictable. Overall, it's just different, but I don't feel passionately about it one way or another.

Personally, I think Portnoy's alleged arrangement skills are a bit overstated, and I suspect Neal Morse often lets him run with that on the albums they do together because Portnoy doesn't really write the music, so doing the arranging is his way of earning that songwriting credit (rather than just being given it because he was part of a jam that Neal or someone else then turned into a song).  I don't think it's a coincidence that DT's arrangements have been better and tightened up a bit in the Mangini era verses what they were in the 00s.  I think Portnoy has the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" mentality, which can really work at times, but not always. That shows up in the live medleys he puts together for his various bands, most of which sounds totally random and just bouncing from one thing to another with no rhyme or reason.  I remember the NMB medley sounding really good and cohesive on The Great Adventure...because it was pieced together by Bill Hubauer, not Mike Portnoy. 

I agree with a lot of that.  But I think there's a balance, and I see the pros and cons of both approaches in DT.  Mike's "throw everything in there" approach seems to have led to a lot of interesting music, even if it may also have led to some really weird things and some dead ends.  In contrast, while the rest of DT (probably mostly JP) have a more "concise" or "focused" approach (for lack of better terms), some would argue that that makes things more repetitive or predictable.

...but assuming BC&SL isn't up to snuff - and I'm not sure I'm 100% there myself - it's not "laziness" as much as it is being "forced".  Of all the things you can accuse Dream Theater of over the years, "laziness" is not one of them. 

Excellent distinction you are making.

I mostly think the main issue with BC&SL, is that since they are all mostly long songs, if you don't love or like a couple of them, that's ends up being a large chunk of the album.

I mean, everyone has a least favorite DT album. On my least favorite DT album (FII), I still love a number of tunes.

Another great point.  That isn't the "main issue" for me as far as why BCSL is one of my least favorite DT albums, but is certainly a big factor.  But, as you said, even being one of my least favorites, there is a lot that I like about it.

[Wim Kruithof]

I mean, everyone has a least favorite DT album. On my least favorite DT album (FII), I still love a number of tunes.

Couldn't agree more. Besides, I love Black Clouds & Silver Linings.

Last eve' I went to Transatlantic in 013, Tilburg, Netherlands. I am overwhelmed, still am. It moved me the whole night. Being a Dream Theater fan since not that long ago, I never got the change to see Portnoy live. But due to Transatlantic I did and I instantly understand why there's so much credit for him. The way he played and the interaction with Morse was fantastic.

I love Mangini and think he totally fits in Dream Theater. But wow, Portnoy, what a man he is.

[Stadler]

I mean, everyone has a least favorite DT album. On my least favorite DT album (FII), I still love a number of tunes.

Couldn't agree more. Besides, I love Black Clouds & Silver Linings.

Last eve' I went to Transatlantic in 013, Tilburg, Netherlands. I am overwhelmed, still am. It moved me the whole night. Being a Dream Theater fan since not that long ago, I never got the change to see Portnoy live. But due to Transatlantic I did and I instantly understand why there's so much credit for him. The way he played and the interaction with Morse was fantastic.

I love Mangini and think he totally fits in Dream Theater. But wow, Portnoy, what a man he is.

One of maybe three musicians I will go see play regardless of what incarnation he/she is in.  (Blackmore is really the only other, actually).

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I mean, everyone has a least favorite DT album. On my least favorite DT album (FII), I still love a number of tunes.

Couldn't agree more. Besides, I love Black Clouds & Silver Linings.

Last eve' I went to Transatlantic in 013, Tilburg, Netherlands. I am overwhelmed, still am. It moved me the whole night. Being a Dream Theater fan since not that long ago, I never got the change to see Portnoy live. But due to Transatlantic I did and I instantly understand why there's so much credit for him. The way he played and the interaction with Morse was fantastic.

I love Mangini and think he totally fits in Dream Theater. But wow, Portnoy, what a man he is.

I am not even sure what this means...that he has a penis?

[Stadler]

I mean, everyone has a least favorite DT album. On my least favorite DT album (FII), I still love a number of tunes.

Couldn't agree more. Besides, I love Black Clouds & Silver Linings.

Last eve' I went to Transatlantic in 013, Tilburg, Netherlands. I am overwhelmed, still am. It moved me the whole night. Being a Dream Theater fan since not that long ago, I never got the change to see Portnoy live. But due to Transatlantic I did and I instantly understand why there's so much credit for him. The way he played and the interaction with Morse was fantastic.

I love Mangini and think he totally fits in Dream Theater. But wow, Portnoy, what a man he is.

I am not even sure what this means...that he has a penis?

I took it as someone to admire, beyond just the pure musical skills. 

[Glasser]

I mean, everyone has a least favorite DT album. On my least favorite DT album (FII), I still love a number of tunes.

Couldn't agree more. Besides, I love Black Clouds & Silver Linings.

Last eve' I went to Transatlantic in 013, Tilburg, Netherlands. I am overwhelmed, still am. It moved me the whole night. Being a Dream Theater fan since not that long ago, I never got the change to see Portnoy live. But due to Transatlantic I did and I instantly understand why there's so much credit for him. The way he played and the interaction with Morse was fantastic.

I love Mangini and think he totally fits in Dream Theater. But wow, Portnoy, what a man he is.

I am not even sure what this means...that he has a penis?

I took it as someone to admire, beyond just the pure musical skills.

 

[Stadler]

^^^ I don't follow.  He's not to be admired?  I don't mean as a moral person in the grand sense, but I'm a fan, and a fairly conscientious one, and he strikes me as a fan in the same vein.  I do lists.  I'm a completist.  I like the varied sets.  I like getting full shows with my live albums.  I like commentaries.  I like to know the behind the scenes.  All things that Mike does, in addition to laying down sick drum parts. 

I forget what it was now - might have been Flying Colors - and one of the live sets, they did an impromptu rendition of Space Truckin' by Deep Purple.  And there was some talk about it being "exclusive to the vinyl" or some shit.  Well, I found it, buried in the blu-ray of the show.  I don't know that that was Mike specifically, but it's the kind of thing he would do, and it's the kind of thing if not done would bug me.   I appreciate that attention to detail and that recognition that not everything is a marketing scheme or ploy.

[Glasser]

^^^ Mike P is extremely talented and yes he's a huge supporter of bands/artists as well as being very dedicated to marketing his own brand. There is no question about that. All I will say is when DT started out he was a very kind, humble and very approachable guy in my personal experiences. People can change towards others and personal life experiences and circumstances can change us all as we grow. That being said, I'm a huge fan of his work.

[Wim Kruithof]

I am not even sure what this means...that he has a penis?

Of course I'll go with Stadler, I mean he has so much to admire. I figured 'what a man he is' was a common expression in English, but I might be wrong. Anyhow, due to what he's been through (and pinned down in the Twelve Step suite) he shows a vunerable side of him, which I appreciate so often. Then he was a huge driving force to some of Dream Theaters most exceptional pieces, like the whole concept of Octavarium.

But seeing him playing alive - although very off-topic - was something I will never ever forget.

I appreciate that attention to detail and that recognition that not everything is a marketing scheme or ploy.

Couldn't agree more.

[Stadler]

^^^ Mike P is extremely talented and yes he's a huge supporter of bands/artists as well as being very dedicated to marketing his own brand. There is no question about that. All I will say is when DT started out he was a very kind, humble and very approachable guy in my personal experiences. People can change towards others and personal life experiences and circumstances can change us all as we grow. That being said, I'm a huge fan of his work.

I've met him after the separation, and I also found him, then, to be a kind, humble and approachable guy.  I think after a certain amount of time there are callouses that form for certain things, and it is, I think, beyond debate that certain "fans" have abused the trust (there's a sister site to this one, and the things said over there about Mike in the immediate wake of his departure were criminal - I don't mean that as a euphemism, I mean, literally criminal.  There was a whole thread that was basically about him being a incestuous pedophile. It was absolutely disgusting on every level and went well beyond any legitimate or constructive criticism).

[TheCountOfNYC]

^^^ Mike P is extremely talented and yes he's a huge supporter of bands/artists as well as being very dedicated to marketing his own brand. There is no question about that. All I will say is when DT started out he was a very kind, humble and very approachable guy in my personal experiences. People can change towards others and personal life experiences and circumstances can change us all as we grow. That being said, I'm a huge fan of his work.

I've met him after the separation, and I also found him, then, to be a kind, humble and approachable guy.  I think after a certain amount of time there are callouses that form for certain things, and it is, I think, beyond debate that certain "fans" have abused the trust (there's a sister site to this one, and the things said over there about Mike in the immediate wake of his departure were criminal - I don't mean that as a euphemism, I mean, literally criminal.  There was a whole thread that was basically about him being a incestuous pedophile. It was absolutely disgusting on every level and went well beyond any legitimate or constructive criticism).

Thankfully the moderators and admins over here are on top of things and make sure stuff like that rarely if ever happens.

[Dream Team]

That was a horrible abomination of a site. Pretty sure it's defunct now so yay for that.

[LKap13]

Anyone else still in awe of this album and realizing that it's the best thing this band has done? I fear hyperbole but it belongs in the canon of Western music

[TAC]

It is indeed a great album.

[Ben_Jamin]

Answering The Call is among my top 10 songs from them. IF they didn't play Awaken The Master, that would've been the song to play. It's the one song that I do wish they play if there is a second leg of the tour.

[KevShmev]

Anyone else still in awe of this album and realizing that it's the best thing this band has done? I fear hyperbole but it belongs in the canon of Western music

I can't go that far, but it is a really good album, definitely one of their best of the last 15 years. 

[gzarruk]

Answering The Call is among my top 10 songs from them. IF they didn't play Awaken The Master, that would've been the song to play. It's the one song that I do wish they play if there is a second leg of the tour.

MM said in an interview that if he had to choose one song to define what DT is, it would be ATC or PBD

[LKap13]

Pbd? Smh

[Adami]

Still not a fan.