*Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread

[JPX]

I guess you don't play guitar. Nothing even comes close, technically to ToT (maybe Lost not Forgotten). If you don't get it then I can't help you.

The best from a technical standpoint does not automatically mean it is his best playing or his magnum opus, though.  Music is more about playing a lot of notes.

Obviously. This guy was just talking about guitar wanking which proves to me he likely has no idea what he's talking about.

Personally I find ToT to be JPs best work overall, playing/writing/riffs/leads/structure/tone etc but many of their other albums are very close (I&W/FII/6D/Scenes)

[KevShmev]

And as much as I like Jordan, and as much as I have had zero interest in anything KevMo did after DT, he was amazing on I&W and on that tour. I regarded him on his instrument as high as I did the rest of the band.

Amen to this.  I watched that Tokyo VHS from the I&W tour more times than I can count, and I never thought any of the four instrumentalists at the time were a lot better or worse than the others.  All were awesome at the time.

[Glasser]

I just joined recently because most forums are shit! This one is full of great people and the best DT fans in the world. The new album talk brought me here.

Glassman, you've been a welcomed addition to DTF, as have the other guys that have posted on this page.

Thank you my brother, you're aces man! Also, No one is Kevin Moore, NO ONE. He shaped what we love about DT today. Jordan is the man who took it to the next level for sure. But Kevin was just.... WOW!

[jammindude]

I'm about halfway through and I have to say that right now it's just sounding like a better recorded version of s/t and d/t.

It's not bad. In fact the alien and invisible monster were both much better on my second listen and I absolutely love sleeping giant.

But when transcending time started, I had to do a double take. Is this the looking glass part two?

[Ben_Jamin]

Okay, I think I've had enough listens to form an as-of-now ranking...

1. Awaken The Master
2. Answering The Call
3. Transcending Time
4. A View From The Top of The World
5. The Alien
6. Sleeping Giant
7. Invisible Monster

Just because the epic is long and has more music, does not mean it's my favorite of the album. There's many things a song has to do in order for me to rank them highly.

Also, these songs I do not consider bad songs, or bad songs for Dream Theater.

I love how Answering the Call begins, then goes into that energetic guitar riff, followed by that awesome low end bass, with the keyboard runs. Then JLB comes in with some great vocal lines and melodies. His vocals here remind me of his Solo stuff and is a style I wanted him to do in DT, and I guess I got that wish.

[jammindude]

This is a solid album, and possibly (just for sound quality and mix alone) deserves to be called the best of the MM era.

I think the guys are having fun, and they are making music with a certain amount of joy that comes through in the performance. But there are definite moments of self-plagiarism at this point.  As long as they keep coming up with interesting rhythmic ideas, I will probably always at least think their albums are good. As long as they are having fun, I will always find something to smile about in DTs music.

But it reminds me why I miss Rush.

I think it was Alex who said "as soon as we've succeeded at something, it's time to do something else" or words to that effect. That's why Rush was always reinventing themselves every 4 albums or so. I don't foresee DT doing that at this point, but what we have here is the pinnacle of who they are now.

It will take many more spins to come up with a ranking, but I definitely like it on the first spin, and I stand by my assessment that this is the best parts of s/t and d/t with better recording and mixing and just all around better aural experience.

[geeeemo]

I just want to say thank you to all the moderators on here. Dream Theater is sort of a sick obsession of mine, literally the only music message board I post on.   

Nobody I know even cares about them so it's so great to have a place to talk about every single little thing about the band and the new albums etc....

Really appreciate it.  Anyways...back to album talk.

Me too. Especially being a woman. And getting older. sigh...   .

Thank goodness one of my sons likes metal and will go to the concerts with me. But, he is not into DT like I am. So, this is the place. And you're right, other social media is pretty rough and gets boring quick.

[Glasser]

I just want to say thank you to all the moderators on here. Dream Theater is sort of a sick obsession of mine, literally the only music message board I post on.   

Nobody I know even cares about them so it's so great to have a place to talk about every single little thing about the band and the new albums etc....

Really appreciate it.  Anyways...back to album talk.

Me too. Especially being a woman. And getting older. sigh...   .

Thank goodness one of my sons likes metal and will go to the concerts with me. But, he is not into DT like I am. So, this is the place. And you're right, other social media is pretty rough and gets boring quick.

That's amazing!!! None of my 3 boys like Metal and I'm fine with that (they're great kids). Yeah, it was only yesterday I was 20, I blinked and now I'm 51. I avoid all social media outside of this forum like the plague. DRAMA, HATE, and NEGATIVITY.... Not for me. DT makes me happy.

[jammindude]

52 and ditto

[Buddyhunter1]

1: Answering The Call - My clear favorite from the beginning. Love the chorus and that main riff. Strongest melodies on the album, and lots of energy to match.
2: AVFTTOTW - Solid epic. I really like the structure of the song and the story it tells, even without the lyrics. Probably would have been my favorite on the album if some of the transitions didn't feel too rushed.
3: The Alien - A bit weak on the melody side, but it's grown on me since the album came out. I admire the nonstop momentum of it.
4: Awaken The Master - This song starts off amazing but it loses me a bit in the middle when it becomes more of a mild, mid-tempo affair. I wish the energy from the intro was present throughout more of it, but the good parts are really damn good.
5: Sleeping Giant - Good chorus, but apart from that this one's just okay - not particularly interesting for their standards.
6: Transcending Time - The band has put out more enjoyable Rush ripoffs before.
7: Invisible Monster - While most songs on the album feel shorter than they actually are this one feels painfully dragged out. Main melody's okay, but definitely not enough to support a six minute song.

[The Realm]

1: Answering The Call - My clear favorite from the beginning. Love the chorus and that main riff. Strongest melodies on the album, and lots of energy to match.

Totally agree with this. Easily the best and most complete song on the album, including being the song with the strongest vocal melody. To me, most of the songs become very 'by the numbers' due to poorly conceived vocal melodies but on Answering The Call they put it all together.

[bosk1]

What does it even mean when you say-- with or without saying-- that an album is uninspired but another album is?

Inspired=fresh, feels like maximum effort went into it, pushing the envelope etc...

It doesn't mean I'm correct on when they were or weren't inspired. It's just how it comes off to me.

It also makes sense for a band with 15 albums to have times of maximum inspiration and times of creative roadblocks.  No matter how great that band is.

But what was so fresh about ToT? The band merely shifted the weighting of the metal vs prog elements of their sound towards metal. It was the band's heaviest album, but JP's riffs didn't push the envelope for him as a player in any way. The long instrumental sections sound like they're from the same cloth as the ones we hear today, no?

Also, given the record short turnaround time for ToT, how do you think about the amount of effort they put in vs. DT15 which took much longer if I am not mistaken? seems that ToT may have required less effort.

TOT was freshing compared to previous discography (if you want to be quite a bitter analyst, you can tell they took Glass Prison and did an entire album in that vibe - except Vacant....but still, it was unprecedented as an albun).

But still...in terms of wankery virtuosity, it's not that different from what we hear on this album, except for the obviousness that came almost 20 years earlier. But that doesn't change the fact that JR's absolutely nonsensical solos in This Dying Soul are there.

For me it doesn't make sense to exalt the wankery of that record and condemn this one (as I see some comments here). Personally I don't like TOT, I don't like LTE and I'm not a big fan of the approach JP/JR had on the new record.

At least the new record has more to offer me than the other examples.

I guess you don't play guitar. Nothing even comes close, technically to ToT (maybe Lost not Forgotten). If you don't get it then I can't help you.

I know a guy that does play a little bit of guitar now and then.  His name is John Petrucci.  And he doesn't consider TOT to be a "magnum opus."  Go figure. 

[erciccio]

What does it even mean when you say-- with or without saying-- that an album is uninspired but another album is?

Inspired=fresh, feels like maximum effort went into it, pushing the envelope etc...

It doesn't mean I'm correct on when they were or weren't inspired. It's just how it comes off to me.

It also makes sense for a band with 15 albums to have times of maximum inspiration and times of creative roadblocks.  No matter how great that band is.

But what was so fresh about ToT? The band merely shifted the weighting of the metal vs prog elements of their sound towards metal. It was the band's heaviest album, but JP's riffs didn't push the envelope for him as a player in any way. The long instrumental sections sound like they're from the same cloth as the ones we hear today, no?

Also, given the record short turnaround time for ToT, how do you think about the amount of effort they put in vs. DT15 which took much longer if I am not mistaken? seems that ToT may have required less effort.

TOT was freshing compared to previous discography (if you want to be quite a bitter analyst, you can tell they took Glass Prison and did an entire album in that vibe - except Vacant....but still, it was unprecedented as an albun).

But still...in terms of wankery virtuosity, it's not that different from what we hear on this album, except for the obviousness that came almost 20 years earlier. But that doesn't change the fact that JR's absolutely nonsensical solos in This Dying Soul are there.

For me it doesn't make sense to exalt the wankery of that record and condemn this one (as I see some comments here). Personally I don't like TOT, I don't like LTE and I'm not a big fan of the approach JP/JR had on the new record.

At least the new record has more to offer me than the other examples.

I guess you don't play guitar. Nothing even comes close, technically to ToT (maybe Lost not Forgotten). If you don't get it then I can't help you.

I know a guy that does play a little bit of guitar now and then.  His name is John Petrucci.  And he doesn't consider TOT to be a "magnum opus."  Go figure.

Yeah, 110% agree...ToT probably contains some of his fastest solo in terms on notes per minute, but that's clearly not a measure of "technicality" as concerns guitar playing..he is even intentionally "sloppy" in some of the fastest flurries in SOC, he intentionally strives for "full speed with limited control".

Some of his playing is SDOT is clearly more interesting in terms of guitar playing technique (e.g. the GP arpeggios for alternative picking over arpeggios, the Blid Faith unison for the timing and positions), and IMHO you have to look elsewhere if you want to find his "best" solos in terms of writing and delivery.

[LCArenas]

Only a couple of spins in and I feel that, like in my experience with The Astonishing And Unlike the rest of the Mangini-era albums, I might need to listen to this album more times in order to form an opinion. I loved ADTOE and Distance Over Time right away after my first time hearing them, and while I did like DT12 a bit Less, the opinion I had about it was the same all the times I listened to it.

I don't think I'm gonna like this more than ADTOE or DoT, but there definitely are gems here. The songs are more complex, and not as easy to appreciate in a casual listening (Say, while driving to work) as other DT albums might be.

The Alien to me is probably the weakest song on the album so far. Being the first song that was released I've listened to this song more times than any other song from the album, and I just don't care enough for it. It just doesn't leave any kind of impression to me. This is happening with Sleeping Giant as well, but I need to listen to it more times. So far I've loved Answering the Call and Transcending Time, the latter being my favorite song on the album so far. I like Invisible Monster as well. Awaken the Master is pretty fascinating to me in the sense that I feel that there's a lot to appreciate in this song and I haven't done so for some reason.

The title track... Is nothing like any other DT Epic I've heard before, and I can't say if that's good or bad. I'm digging the instrumental parts of it, but I don't feel like it has either a satisfying ending or a memorable melody/leitmotif like the other DT songs longer than 20 minutes. Illumination Theory, which I had considered my least favorite DT Epic up until this point, at least had that absolutely gorgeous Orchestral Break in the middle of it. This... I can't pinpoint a single part of the title track that made me go "Wow. I'm going to remember this for a long time".

Again, it might be me. Like I've said, I think this album is not the kind of album you like immediately in a casual listen. I might need to play it several more times and really pay attention to it in order to form an opinion.

[DoctorAction]

Music is recorded with a click. Every single one of their albums has been with a click. They will never not use one, and there's not a single reason not to.

Opinions may vary, but there is a specific, obvious reason not to use a click track. You may have worked out what it is by now. 

I won't derail this thread with it further but take it to General Music at some point.

[Bertielee]

JPX, frankly, things would go better here for you on the forum if most of, if not all, the time, you didn't sound as condescending.

B.Lee

[Kotowboy]

Do you guys still think DT needs a outsider producer?

100%, unequivocally yes.

Bob Rock.

After hearing the new Offspring album, I think Bob Rock might've officially lost it.

This 100% . What The Fuck? It's AWFUL. But then again Bob Rock produced the most recent Bryan Adams album and that sounds fine so who knows.

But not Bob Rock. I think he's gone deaf. Honestly. 

[AVFTTOTW]

Only a couple of spins in and I feel that, like in my experience with The Astonishing And Unlike the rest of the Mangini-era albums, I might need to listen to this album more times in order to form an opinion. I loved ADTOE and Distance Over Time right away after my first time hearing them, and while I did like DT12 a bit Less, the opinion I had about it was the same all the times I listened to it.

Interesting.

For me I absolutely loved ADTOE when it came out but became bored of it later, before more recently coming to love it again.
I hated DT12 when it came out (but still brought a copy).
I also hated TA and didn't even buy a copy (it was a polarizing album for fans though).
I loved DoT though (even though Untethered Angel was underwhelming), and felt at the time that it had some of their strongest material since SC.
But now that AVFTTOTW is out and I've soaked it up (also pre-release) I feel it is their best album in the decade since ADTOE.

[Kotowboy]

A Dramatic Turn Of Events - loved it immediately. Even if the production was a bit weird. I don't love Breaking All Illusions like most people.

DT12 - Thought the Enemy Inside was awesome. Loved the bigger sound overall. Was not fussed on Surrender or Along For The Ride. Didn't mind the epic.

The Astonishing - Loved The Gift of Music . Really loved the whole album. Still can't fathom why people hate it *quite* so much.

Distance Over Time. Ah. There's that Dream Theater Magic i've been missing. Loved the whole album and especially Room 137.

A View. Bingo. Back to their best

[JPX]

What does it even mean when you say-- with or without saying-- that an album is uninspired but another album is?

Inspired=fresh, feels like maximum effort went into it, pushing the envelope etc...

It doesn't mean I'm correct on when they were or weren't inspired. It's just how it comes off to me.

It also makes sense for a band with 15 albums to have times of maximum inspiration and times of creative roadblocks.  No matter how great that band is.

But what was so fresh about ToT? The band merely shifted the weighting of the metal vs prog elements of their sound towards metal. It was the band's heaviest album, but JP's riffs didn't push the envelope for him as a player in any way. The long instrumental sections sound like they're from the same cloth as the ones we hear today, no?

Also, given the record short turnaround time for ToT, how do you think about the amount of effort they put in vs. DT15 which took much longer if I am not mistaken? seems that ToT may have required less effort.

TOT was freshing compared to previous discography (if you want to be quite a bitter analyst, you can tell they took Glass Prison and did an entire album in that vibe - except Vacant....but still, it was unprecedented as an albun).

But still...in terms of wankery virtuosity, it's not that different from what we hear on this album, except for the obviousness that came almost 20 years earlier. But that doesn't change the fact that JR's absolutely nonsensical solos in This Dying Soul are there.

For me it doesn't make sense to exalt the wankery of that record and condemn this one (as I see some comments here). Personally I don't like TOT, I don't like LTE and I'm not a big fan of the approach JP/JR had on the new record.

At least the new record has more to offer me than the other examples.

I guess you don't play guitar. Nothing even comes close, technically to ToT (maybe Lost not Forgotten). If you don't get it then I can't help you.

I know a guy that does play a little bit of guitar now and then.  His name is John Petrucci.  And he doesn't consider TOT to be a "magnum opus."  Go figure.

Yeah, 110% agree...ToT probably contains some of his fastest solo in terms on notes per minute, but that's clearly not a measure of "technicality" as concerns guitar playing..he is even intentionally "sloppy" in some of the fastest flurries in SOC, he intentionally strives for "full speed with limited control".

Some of his playing is SDOT is clearly more interesting in terms of guitar playing technique (e.g. the GP arpeggios for alternative picking over arpeggios, the Blid Faith unison for the timing and positions), and IMHO you have to look elsewhere if you want to find his "best" solos in terms of writing and delivery.

ToT is sloppy 

[Dream Team]

Dude, get over it. We're not going to accept ToT as JP's magnum opus.

[Kotowboy]

I love that little string phrase in Awaken The Master after "lost in the spiral of time".

[SeRoX]

Dude, get over it. We're not going to accept ToT as JP's magnum opus.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Do you guys still think DT needs a outsider producer?

I don't think they need one. I think that every Dream Theater album at a minimum has its merits and at a maximum is great, including the newer ones. However, I do think that the right outside producer could provide an extra jolt of energy to take them over the top... of the world.

[Adami]

I've listened to most of the album (not in the right order) and listening to the rest now, but it feels like all or at least most of the Verse 1 in songs are mid tempo with chug on guitar and the chord changes happening on keys? It's getting kind of noticeable.

On that note, Answering the Call I actually mostly really enjoyed. The Alien had some moments, Invisible Monster did nothing for me, Awaken the Master did nothing for me, Sleeping Giant is pretty cool but sounds like most of their TA onward stuff to me, and the title track had some good moments but overall just kind of bored me. Oddly, the person I least connect with in the band (Mangini) is the only one constantly holding my attention. Dude is killing it.

[erciccio]

I've listened to most of the album (not in the right order) and listening to the rest now, but it feels like all or at least most of the Verse 1 in songs are mid tempo with chug on guitar and the chord changes happening on keys? It's getting kind of noticeable.

Yes, and IMHO it's kind of annoying.
There are many situations where I wonder why JP hasn't played some chords/ arpeggios/ nothing/ whatever else*...also because the chugga-chug is quite high in the mix and kills most of the background harmony.

* such as LTL, BAI, Scarred, ...

[LKap13]

I don't think a ranking is necessary but here's mine atm

1) TT
2) epic
3) awaken
4) sleeping or ATC or Alien
7) im

[erciccio]

I don't think a ranking is necessary but here's mine atm

1) TT
2) epic
3) awaken
4) sleeping or ATC or Alien
7) im

Mine is just the opposite!

7) TT
6) epic
5) awaken
2) sleeping or ATC or Alien
1) im

That's way we don't agree in the "View" topic! 

[LKap13]

Haha!

[Peter Mc]

Dude, get over it. We're not going to accept ToT as JP's magnum opus.

I'm more of a melodic JP fan so it's actually right at the bottom of the pile for me.  I'm no guitarist so I can't comment on how difficult that stuff is to play but an album of shredding solos doesn't do much for me.  I actually think his last solo record is pretty incredible in terms of guitar playing.

[dtvoices94]

Been listening to AVFTTOTW constantly since Friday and I really enjoy it.  Great production, stellar musicianship (as always), and excellent vocals by James.
I got into DT in 1992 and they were, to my ears at the time, all of the music I liked thrown into a blender.  There was prog, rock, metal, soft rock...I was in heaven.  I liked DT best when the metal was sprinkled in as opposed to being the dominant force. 
I liked MP and was sad when he left but the band continued and thrived.  I loved ADTOE, S/T was a bit of a mixed bag, I loved The Astonishing and DOT hit all the sweet spots for me.
While AVFTTOTW does feel a bit too familiar in some spots, it's a great feeling to know that the band I have loved since the early 90's is still putting out high quality material.  I'm thrilled to have a new DT album to look forward to and have that "kid on Christmas Eve" feeling every few years. 

[lovethedrake]

I've listened to most of the album (not in the right order) and listening to the rest now, but it feels like all or at least most of the Verse 1 in songs are mid tempo with chug on guitar and the chord changes happening on keys? It's getting kind of noticeable.

On that note, Answering the Call I actually mostly really enjoyed. The Alien had some moments, Invisible Monster did nothing for me, Awaken the Master did nothing for me, Sleeping Giant is pretty cool but sounds like most of their TA onward stuff to me, and the title track had some good moments but overall just kind of bored me. Oddly, the person I least connect with in the band (Mangini) is the only one constantly holding my attention. Dude is killing it.

Totally agree with this, MM is usually the one I don't connect with but he's the one on this album that actually provides an air of "uniqueness". 

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Dude, get over it. We're not going to accept ToT as JP's magnum opus.

I'm more of a melodic JP fan so it's actually right at the bottom of the pile for me.  I'm no guitarist so I can't comment on how difficult that stuff is to play but an album of shredding solos doesn't do much for me.  I actually think his last solo record is pretty incredible in terms of guitar playing.

It's difficult to get all that stuff down cold and play it as accurately and consistently as JP does. He's been incredibly diligent about his practice routine.

But having followed his entire body of work, you can find that he showed more or less the same degree of technical prowess earlier in his career. The key difference with ToT vs. his work on other albums is just that it's MORE shred from beginning to end. There are a LOT of guitarists out there-- probably JPX included-- who think that this alone makes one's work superior.

[cramx3]

I hadn't had a ton of time since release to listen more than a couple times until today.  Been playing it all day basically at work and I'm starting to be able to form stronger opinions.

This album is better on more listens.  That's for sure.  I didn't dislike it at all at first, but it didn't really make a strong impression either.  These long songs are just very dense.  I need to fully digest it.  I'm not there yet, but getting closer and definitely getting to the point where I can start to see the awesomeness of the album.  Also, the sound is so good on this, definitely makes for an easy listening.  While only ~10 minutes shorter than Iron Maiden's latest album, it feels like it's 30 minutes shorter.  I think that's due to song pacing and the sound being very good. 

Right now I can say that the title track, answering the call, and awaken the master are my favorites. I think The Alien may be my least favorite.

[hefdaddy42]

I know a guy that does play a little bit of guitar now and then.  His name is John Petrucci.  And he doesn't consider TOT to be a "magnum opus."  Go figure.