*Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

What does it even mean when you say-- with or without saying-- that an album is uninspired but another album is?

[IDontNotDoThings]

Do you guys still think DT needs a outsider producer?

100%, unequivocally yes.

Bob Rock.

After hearing the new Offspring album, I think Bob Rock might've officially lost it.

[Glasser]

Do they "need" an outside producer? Absolutely not. If View had the same production as ADTOE I would like it the same as I do now. With that being said I would recommend an outside ear always be a part of the overall production. If you listen to Sneap, he straight out said he doesn't like doing the surround sound mix which showed according to those who have the high res mix, correct me if I am wrong please. He really came across weird about it to me saying they could have just used Jimmy T's mix. I know he said it tongue in cheek but I'm sure there was some truth to it. Sneap however did a killer job when all is said and done.

He also said he doesn't see a point to 5.1 surround sound mix during the Q&A in the listening party.

How many people are actually going to listen to a 5.1 mix? How many people bought the edition with the DVD?

I get his point.

True. But audiophiles are all about high res. Most fans aren't especially with such an amazing mix. A 320 mp3 sounds the same as a 16 bit WAV file if encoded with a good program.

[lovethedrake]

What does it even mean when you say-- with or without saying-- that an album is uninspired but another album is?

Inspired=fresh, feels like maximum effort went into it, pushing the envelope etc...

It doesn't mean I'm correct on when they were or weren't inspired. It's just how it comes off to me.

It also makes sense for a band with 15 albums to have times of maximum inspiration and times of creative roadblocks.  No matter how great that band is.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

What does it even mean when you say-- with or without saying-- that an album is uninspired but another album is?

Inspired=fresh, feels like maximum effort went into it, pushing the envelope etc...

It doesn't mean I'm correct on when they were or weren't inspired. It's just how it comes off to me.

It also makes sense for a band with 15 albums to have times of maximum inspiration and times of creative roadblocks.  No matter how great that band is.

But what was so fresh about ToT? The band merely shifted the weighting of the metal vs prog elements of their sound towards metal. It was the band's heaviest album, but JP's riffs didn't push the envelope for him as a player in any way. The long instrumental sections sound like they're from the same cloth as the ones we hear today, no?

Also, given the record short turnaround time for ToT, how do you think about the amount of effort they put in vs. DT15 which took much longer if I am not mistaken? seems that ToT may have required less effort.

[JPX]

What does it even mean when you say-- with or without saying-- that an album is uninspired but another album is?

Inspired=fresh, feels like maximum effort went into it, pushing the envelope etc...

It doesn't mean I'm correct on when they were or weren't inspired. It's just how it comes off to me.

It also makes sense for a band with 15 albums to have times of maximum inspiration and times of creative roadblocks.  No matter how great that band is.

But what was so fresh about ToT? The band merely shifted the weighting of the metal vs prog elements of their sound towards metal. It was the band's heaviest album, but JP's riffs didn't push the envelope for him as a player in any way. The long instrumental sections sound like they're from the same cloth as the ones we hear today, no?

Also, given the record short turnaround time for ToT, how do you think about the amount of effort they put in vs. DT15 which took much longer if I am not mistaken? seems that ToT may have required less effort.

ToT is JPs magnum opus, are you crazy? I'm guessing you weren't around for it's release because at the time it was new territory for Dream Theater.

[KevShmev]

ToT is JPs magnum opus, are you crazy? I'm guessing you weren't around for it's release because at the time it was new territory for Dream Theater.

Yep, it is easy to hear it now and think of how similar it is to this, that or the other, but at the time it threw a lot of people off, myself included.  Yes, DT doing metal, shredding and darker tones was not new, but for all of three of those elements to be at full tilt for nearly the entire album was definitely new territory.  Sure, it still sounded like DT, but after the conceptual nature of Scenes, the experimental nature of Disc 1 of 6DOIT, and the thematic and bright nature of Disc 2 of 6DOIT, for them to take the turn that they did with Train of Thought was quite unexpected.

[lovethedrake]

What does it even mean when you say-- with or without saying-- that an album is uninspired but another album is?

Inspired=fresh, feels like maximum effort went into it, pushing the envelope etc...

It doesn't mean I'm correct on when they were or weren't inspired. It's just how it comes off to me.

It also makes sense for a band with 15 albums to have times of maximum inspiration and times of creative roadblocks.  No matter how great that band is.

But what was so fresh about ToT? The band merely shifted the weighting of the metal vs prog elements of their sound towards metal. It was the band's heaviest album, but JP's riffs didn't push the envelope for him as a player in any way. The long instrumental sections sound like they're from the same cloth as the ones we hear today, no?

Also, given the record short turnaround time for ToT, how do you think about the amount of effort they put in vs. DT15 which took much longer if I am not mistaken? seems that ToT may have required less effort.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about with TOT not sounding fresh.  That was a complete 180 for the band and there were some absolutely insane instrumental things that they had never done before.  The entire instrumental section of "in the name god" is absolutely bonkers and like nothing they had done before.  Stream of Consciousness with its Crimson vibe was totally new and the crazy fast petrucci playing was as well.  The list goes on... I mean it was a totally different vibe altogether.  We saw signs of it with The Glass Prison but nothing like it preceding it. 

It's not my favorite album by any means but to say it wasn't fresh is just missing the timeline of the band.  If anything it was too fresh, turning off half of the fanbase but generating new ones.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

What does it even mean when you say-- with or without saying-- that an album is uninspired but another album is?

Inspired=fresh, feels like maximum effort went into it, pushing the envelope etc...

It doesn't mean I'm correct on when they were or weren't inspired. It's just how it comes off to me.

It also makes sense for a band with 15 albums to have times of maximum inspiration and times of creative roadblocks.  No matter how great that band is.

But what was so fresh about ToT? The band merely shifted the weighting of the metal vs prog elements of their sound towards metal. It was the band's heaviest album, but JP's riffs didn't push the envelope for him as a player in any way. The long instrumental sections sound like they're from the same cloth as the ones we hear today, no?

Also, given the record short turnaround time for ToT, how do you think about the amount of effort they put in vs. DT15 which took much longer if I am not mistaken? seems that ToT may have required less effort.

ToT is JPs magnum opus, are you crazy? I'm guessing you weren't around for it's release because at the time it was new territory for Dream Theater.

I like ToT. It has some great riffs and solos. I don't agree at all it's JPs 'magnum opus'. And yes, I already acknowledged it was their heaviest and least proggy album.

[bosk1]

"Heavy" and "proggy" are not mutually exclusive.  TOT was both.  Calling it "JP's magnum opus" is one of the dumbest things I've heard in awhile (which is saying a lot, since we have a new album thread).  But I have to agree with the last few posts agreeing that it was indeed something that took the fanbase by surprise when it was released.  It was plenty "new and fresh" at the time.

[lovethedrake]

ToT is JPs magnum opus, are you crazy? I'm guessing you weren't around for it's release because at the time it was new territory for Dream Theater.

Yep, it is easy to hear it now and think of how similar it is to this, that or the other, but at the time it threw a lot of people off, myself included.  Yes, DT doing metal, shredding and darker tones was not new, but for all of three of those elements to be at full tilt for nearly the entire album was definitely new territory.  Sure, it still sounded like DT, but after the conceptual nature of Scenes, the experimental nature of Disc 1 of 6DOIT, and the thematic and bright nature of Disc 2 of 6DOIT, for them to take the turn that they did with Train of Thought was quite unexpected.

It was also a shift to a modern or NU metal vibe vs the more 80's inspired metal they typically went for.  80's metal is the metal I love so it's been a constant struggle for me with the band since TOT.  That's why I was so happy about The Astonishing because it finally forced them away from that vibe completely. 

[lovethedrake]

"Heavy" and "proggy" are not mutually exclusive.  TOT was both.  Calling it "JP's magnum opus" is one of the dumbest things I've heard in awhile (which is saying a lot, since we have a new album thread).  But I have to agree with the last few posts agreeing that it was indeed something that took the fanbase by surprise when it was released.  It was plenty "new and fresh" at the time.

Agree with everything here.  I think JP has had better performances but TOT was very fresh.

[JPX]

I like ToT. It has some great riffs and solos. I don't agree at all it's JPs 'magnum opus'. And yes, I already acknowledged it was their heaviest and least proggy album.

What would be then? His playing on This Dying Soul, Stream of Consciousness and In The Name of God are unparalleled.

[lovethedrake]

I like ToT. It has some great riffs and solos. I don't agree at all it's JPs 'magnum opus'. And yes, I already acknowledged it was their heaviest and least proggy album.

What would be then? His playing on This Dying Soul, Stream of Consciousness and In The Name of God are unparalleled.

I don't think it's dumb to say it's his magnum opus but I just don't agree.  I think I&W and SFAM are his magnum opus albums.  Every note by JP is perfect on those albums.

[KevShmev]

ToT is JPs magnum opus, are you crazy? I'm guessing you weren't around for it's release because at the time it was new territory for Dream Theater.

Yep, it is easy to hear it now and think of how similar it is to this, that or the other, but at the time it threw a lot of people off, myself included.  Yes, DT doing metal, shredding and darker tones was not new, but for all of three of those elements to be at full tilt for nearly the entire album was definitely new territory.  Sure, it still sounded like DT, but after the conceptual nature of Scenes, the experimental nature of Disc 1 of 6DOIT, and the thematic and bright nature of Disc 2 of 6DOIT, for them to take the turn that they did with Train of Thought was quite unexpected.

It was also a shift to a modern or NU metal vibe vs the more 80's inspired metal they typically went for.  80's metal is the metal I love so it's been a constant struggle for me with the band since TOT.  That's why I was so happy about The Astonishing because it finally forced them away from that vibe completely.

I wouldn't want them doing that on every album, but while Train of Thought was a WTF for me at first, it has aged pretty well, and I enjoy it a lot now.  In fact, it is probably my 3rd favorite DT album of the 21st century, behind only 6DOIT and The Astonishing.  It's different, but when I am in the mood for it, it's killer to just crank. 

[TAC]

AS I Am has actually aged pretty well. I never cared for it before.

[Dedalus]

What does it even mean when you say-- with or without saying-- that an album is uninspired but another album is?

Inspired=fresh, feels like maximum effort went into it, pushing the envelope etc...

It doesn't mean I'm correct on when they were or weren't inspired. It's just how it comes off to me.

It also makes sense for a band with 15 albums to have times of maximum inspiration and times of creative roadblocks.  No matter how great that band is.

But what was so fresh about ToT? The band merely shifted the weighting of the metal vs prog elements of their sound towards metal. It was the band's heaviest album, but JP's riffs didn't push the envelope for him as a player in any way. The long instrumental sections sound like they're from the same cloth as the ones we hear today, no?

Also, given the record short turnaround time for ToT, how do you think about the amount of effort they put in vs. DT15 which took much longer if I am not mistaken? seems that ToT may have required less effort.

TOT was freshing compared to previous discography (if you want to be quite a bitter analyst, you can tell they took Glass Prison and did an entire album in that vibe - except Vacant....but still, it was unprecedented as an albun).

But still...in terms of wankery virtuosity, it's not that different from what we hear on this album, except for the obviousness that came almost 20 years earlier. But that doesn't change the fact that JR's absolutely nonsensical solos in This Dying Soul are there.

For me it doesn't make sense to exalt the wankery of that record and condemn this one (as I see some comments here). Personally I don't like TOT, I don't like LTE and I'm not a big fan of the approach JP/JR had on the new record.

At least the new record has more to offer me than the other examples.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

What does it even mean when you say-- with or without saying-- that an album is uninspired but another album is?

Inspired=fresh, feels like maximum effort went into it, pushing the envelope etc...

It doesn't mean I'm correct on when they were or weren't inspired. It's just how it comes off to me.

It also makes sense for a band with 15 albums to have times of maximum inspiration and times of creative roadblocks.  No matter how great that band is.

But what was so fresh about ToT? The band merely shifted the weighting of the metal vs prog elements of their sound towards metal. It was the band's heaviest album, but JP's riffs didn't push the envelope for him as a player in any way. The long instrumental sections sound like they're from the same cloth as the ones we hear today, no?

Also, given the record short turnaround time for ToT, how do you think about the amount of effort they put in vs. DT15 which took much longer if I am not mistaken? seems that ToT may have required less effort.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about with TOT not sounding fresh.  That was a complete 180 for the band and there were some absolutely insane instrumental things that they had never done before.  The entire instrumental section of "in the name god" is absolutely bonkers and like nothing they had done before.  Stream of Consciousness with its Crimson vibe was totally new and the crazy fast petrucci playing was as well.  The list goes on... I mean it was a totally different vibe altogether.  We saw signs of it with The Glass Prison but nothing like it preceding it. 

It's not my favorite album by any means but to say it wasn't fresh is just missing the timeline of the band.  If anything it was too fresh, turning off half of the fanbase but generating new ones.

Hmm.. I guess I never saw anything fresh about it though I recognize it was by far heavier than anything they'd done. JP shredded a lot and played a lot of metal riffs, as he did on Metropolis pt. 1. It was new for DT to be that one dimensional for a whole album I suppose.

[lovethedrake]

What does it even mean when you say-- with or without saying-- that an album is uninspired but another album is?

Inspired=fresh, feels like maximum effort went into it, pushing the envelope etc...

It doesn't mean I'm correct on when they were or weren't inspired. It's just how it comes off to me.

It also makes sense for a band with 15 albums to have times of maximum inspiration and times of creative roadblocks.  No matter how great that band is.

But what was so fresh about ToT? The band merely shifted the weighting of the metal vs prog elements of their sound towards metal. It was the band's heaviest album, but JP's riffs didn't push the envelope for him as a player in any way. The long instrumental sections sound like they're from the same cloth as the ones we hear today, no?

Also, given the record short turnaround time for ToT, how do you think about the amount of effort they put in vs. DT15 which took much longer if I am not mistaken? seems that ToT may have required less effort.

TOT was freshing compared to previous discography (if you want to be quite a bitter analyst, you can tell they took Glass Prison and did an entire album in that vibe - except Vacant....but still, it was unprecedented as an albun).

But still...in terms of wankery virtuosity, it's not that different from what we hear on this album, except for the obviousness that came almost 20 years earlier. But that doesn't change the fact that JR's absolutely nonsensical solos in This Dying Soul are there.

For me it doesn't make sense to exalt the wankery of that record and condemn this one (as I see some comments here). Personally I don't like TOT, I don't like LTE and I'm not a big fan of the approach JP/JR had on the new record.

At least the new record has more to offer me than the other examples.

I don't totally disagree but there's something to be said for learning from your mistakes.  For JR to still be doing it 20 years later is crazy.  He's a 67 year old man... create a melody!

Also totally agree with the Glass Prison comment which I also said earlier.  That was the first sign and TOT was a full album of it but with a darker vibe and much worse vocal production.

[Glasser]

DT should only have one thread for all things as is goes completely off topic a lot. I'm guilty of this as well. 

Oh and View is quickly becoming my all time favorite DT album.

[Dedalus]

Best of all....I spent hours on the internet (at that time it was steam powered) discussing whether Dream Theater had become New Metal with TOT 

As you can see, imbecility has always been there. 

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I like ToT. It has some great riffs and solos. I don't agree at all it's JPs 'magnum opus'. And yes, I already acknowledged it was their heaviest and least proggy album.

What would be then? His playing on This Dying Soul, Stream of Consciousness and In The Name of God are unparalleled.

JP has been an extremely consistent player over the years. I dont think there is one album that is his greatest body of work. I guess if I had to pick it should be Images given how ground breaking THAT album was. But again, I dont think there is just one record that tops them all for him. He did a whole lot of shredding on those three songs. I like that stuff, but I dont hear anything new from him except the sheer quantity of shred at once.

[TAC]

Oh and View is quickly becoming my all time favorite DT album.

That is a hot take, brother.

Watching the Sparks 10-4-92 show tonight. I assume you were there?

I saw them in Boston 3 nights later.

[Dedalus]

I don't totally disagree but there's something to be said for learning from your mistakes.  For JR to still be doing it 20 years later is crazy.  He's a 67 year old man... create a melody!

Also totally agree with the Glass Prison comment which I also said earlier.  That was the first sign and TOT was a full album of it but with a darker vibe and much worse vocal production.

I don't disagree with you. But it's good to remember that two albuns ago he spends almost 130 minutes playing melodies on the piano.

It was a tremendous success!

EDITED: fixed my bad english 

[Glasser]

"A View From The Train Of Thought" - JP's Magnum Opus and Ribbed For Her Pleasure.

 

[lovethedrake]

I don't totally disagree but there's something to be said for learning from your mistakes.  For JR to still be doing it 20 years later is crazy.  He's a 67 year old man... create a melody!

Also totally agree with the Glass Prison comment which I also said earlier.  That was the first sign and TOT was a full album of it but with a darker vibe and much worse vocal production.

I don't disagree with you. But it's good to remember that for two albums he spends almost 130 minutes playing melodies on the piano.

It was a tremendous success!

In my face and I totally agree.   But that also makes it even more frustrating to hear this classically trained brilliant musician wanking away with generic keyboard solos.

[Glasser]

Oh and View is quickly becoming my all time favorite DT album.

That is a hot take, brother.

Watching the Sparks 10-4-92 show tonight. I assume you were there?

I saw them in Boston 3 nights later.

Yessir!!!! One of their best shows ever!!!! Sparks! Wow!

[lovethedrake]

I just want to say thank you to all the moderators on here. Dream Theater is sort of a sick obsession of mine, literally the only music message board I post on.   

Nobody I know even cares about them so it's so great to have a place to talk about every single little thing about the band and the new albums etc....

Really appreciate it.  Anyways...back to album talk.

[JPX]

What does it even mean when you say-- with or without saying-- that an album is uninspired but another album is?

Inspired=fresh, feels like maximum effort went into it, pushing the envelope etc...

It doesn't mean I'm correct on when they were or weren't inspired. It's just how it comes off to me.

It also makes sense for a band with 15 albums to have times of maximum inspiration and times of creative roadblocks.  No matter how great that band is.

But what was so fresh about ToT? The band merely shifted the weighting of the metal vs prog elements of their sound towards metal. It was the band's heaviest album, but JP's riffs didn't push the envelope for him as a player in any way. The long instrumental sections sound like they're from the same cloth as the ones we hear today, no?

Also, given the record short turnaround time for ToT, how do you think about the amount of effort they put in vs. DT15 which took much longer if I am not mistaken? seems that ToT may have required less effort.

TOT was freshing compared to previous discography (if you want to be quite a bitter analyst, you can tell they took Glass Prison and did an entire album in that vibe - except Vacant....but still, it was unprecedented as an albun).

But still...in terms of wankery virtuosity, it's not that different from what we hear on this album, except for the obviousness that came almost 20 years earlier. But that doesn't change the fact that JR's absolutely nonsensical solos in This Dying Soul are there.

For me it doesn't make sense to exalt the wankery of that record and condemn this one (as I see some comments here). Personally I don't like TOT, I don't like LTE and I'm not a big fan of the approach JP/JR had on the new record.

At least the new record has more to offer me than the other examples.

I guess you don't play guitar. Nothing even comes close, technically to ToT (maybe Lost not Forgotten). If you don't get it then I can't help you.

[KevShmev]

I guess you don't play guitar. Nothing even comes close, technically to ToT (maybe Lost not Forgotten). If you don't get it then I can't help you.

The best from a technical standpoint does not automatically mean it is his best playing or his magnum opus, though.  Music is more about playing a lot of notes.

[Glasser]

I just want to say thank you to all the moderators on here. Dream Theater is sort of a sick obsession of mine, literally the only music message board I post on.   

Nobody I know even cares about them so it's so great to have a place to talk about every single little thing about the band and the new albums etc....

Really appreciate it.  Anyways...back to album talk.

You're awesome! I love your passion! I just joined recently because most forums are shit! This one is full of great people and the best DT fans in the world. The new album talk brought me here.

[TAC]

Oh and View is quickly becoming my all time favorite DT album.

That is a hot take, brother.

Watching the Sparks 10-4-92 show tonight. I assume you were there?

I saw them in Boston 3 nights later.

Yessir!!!! One of their best shows ever!!!! Sparks! Wow!

Those early shows were especially special. I saw them 3 times in 1992 alone.

And as much as I like Jordan, and as much as I have had zero interest in anything KevMo did after DT, he was amazing on I&W and on that tour. I regarded him on his instrument as high as I did the rest of the band.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

What does it even mean when you say-- with or without saying-- that an album is uninspired but another album is?

Inspired=fresh, feels like maximum effort went into it, pushing the envelope etc...

It doesn't mean I'm correct on when they were or weren't inspired. It's just how it comes off to me.

It also makes sense for a band with 15 albums to have times of maximum inspiration and times of creative roadblocks.  No matter how great that band is.

But what was so fresh about ToT? The band merely shifted the weighting of the metal vs prog elements of their sound towards metal. It was the band's heaviest album, but JP's riffs didn't push the envelope for him as a player in any way. The long instrumental sections sound like they're from the same cloth as the ones we hear today, no?

Also, given the record short turnaround time for ToT, how do you think about the amount of effort they put in vs. DT15 which took much longer if I am not mistaken? seems that ToT may have required less effort.

TOT was freshing compared to previous discography (if you want to be quite a bitter analyst, you can tell they took Glass Prison and did an entire album in that vibe - except Vacant....but still, it was unprecedented as an albun).

But still...in terms of wankery virtuosity, it's not that different from what we hear on this album, except for the obviousness that came almost 20 years earlier. But that doesn't change the fact that JR's absolutely nonsensical solos in This Dying Soul are there.

For me it doesn't make sense to exalt the wankery of that record and condemn this one (as I see some comments here). Personally I don't like TOT, I don't like LTE and I'm not a big fan of the approach JP/JR had on the new record.

At least the new record has more to offer me than the other examples.

I guess you don't play guitar. Nothing even comes close, technically to ToT. If you don't get it then I can't help you.

Why do you think that pure shred (or wanking to others) is synonymous with greatest body of work though? Do you get that there are a dozen other aspects to guitar playing that make music/musicians great and it's not just the more alternate picking the better?

[TAC]

I just joined recently because most forums are shit! This one is full of great people and the best DT fans in the world. The new album talk brought me here.

Glassman, you've been a welcomed addition to DTF, as have the other guys that have posted on this page.

[Dedalus]

I guess you don't play guitar. Nothing even comes close, technically to ToT (maybe Lost not Forgotten). If you don't get it then I can't help you.

I'm not a guitar player and I don't like guitar players either.