The Alien Listening Party ! ALL SPOILERS !

[Stadler]

It's funny that most bands release their best songs as singles.  You can't imagine Bon Jovi for example saying "don't release Livin On A Prayer, keep the best stuff back for the album".

Bon Jovi almost didn't include "Livin' on a Prayer" on the album at all!

You guys might get a kick out of this article.

https://www.ranker.com/list/hit-songs-almost-left-off-album/kelly-patrick

So the Queen movie wasn't accurate?!?   Horror!   

[HOF]

It's funny that most bands release their best songs as singles.  You can't imagine Bon Jovi for example saying "don't release Livin On A Prayer, keep the best stuff back for the album".

Bon Jovi almost didn't include "Livin' on a Prayer" on the album at all!

You guys might get a kick out of this article.

https://www.ranker.com/list/hit-songs-almost-left-off-album/kelly-patrick

Shit Billie Jean! I don't think it's an overstatement to say that would have been a history changing moment 

Smells Like Teen Spirit even more so. MJ was already a star before Billie Jean. But would grunge have gone mainstream and changed rock in the 90s without Smells Like Teen Spirit?

[emtee]

Gave the song a couple days rest, then played it again this morning. Still love it musically and still only lukewarm vocally.

[Peter Mc]

It's funny that most bands release their best songs as singles.  You can't imagine Bon Jovi for example saying "don't release Livin On A Prayer, keep the best stuff back for the album".

Bon Jovi almost didn't include "Livin' on a Prayer" on the album at all!

I know they tell that story but I think it's total BS.

[Lonk]

It's funny that most bands release their best songs as singles.  You can't imagine Bon Jovi for example saying "don't release Livin On A Prayer, keep the best stuff back for the album".

Bon Jovi almost didn't include "Livin' on a Prayer" on the album at all!

You guys might get a kick out of this article.

https://www.ranker.com/list/hit-songs-almost-left-off-album/kelly-patrick

So the Queen movie wasn't accurate?!?   Horror!   

[bosk1]

So I am playing the song right now then I heard my 8-year old humming the JP outro solo while he's drawing Pokemon. This daddy's heart is filled with joy. 

I don't believe you.  We already established several pages ago that the song lacks melody and hooks.

[Bertielee]

So I am playing the song right now then I heard my 8-year old humming the JP outro solo while he's drawing Pokemon. This daddy's heart is filled with joy. 

I don't believe you.  We already established several pages ago that the song lacks melody and hooks.

[ZirconBlue]

It's funny that most bands release their best songs as singles.  You can't imagine Bon Jovi for example saying "don't release Livin On A Prayer, keep the best stuff back for the album".

Bon Jovi almost didn't include "Livin' on a Prayer" on the album at all!

You guys might get a kick out of this article.

https://www.ranker.com/list/hit-songs-almost-left-off-album/kelly-patrick

Shit Billie Jean! I don't think it's an overstatement to say that would have been a history changing moment 

Smells Like Teen Spirit even more so. MJ was already a star before Billie Jean. But would grunge have gone mainstream and changed rock in the 90s without Smells Like Teen Spirit?

Pearl Jam and Soundgarden were making waves at the same time, so I'm not sure dropping Nirvana out of the mix would kill the trend.

[JediKnight1969]

Usually bands release as first single the most "accessible" song, so if this is the tip of the iceberg... I think it's gonna be a feast 

I do want to caution people against assuming this. Historically this has been the case, but in recent years I think some prog and metal bands have moved away from this. Presumably the rationale for doing this in the past has been to put forward the song most likely to get mainstream attention, but I think there's starting to be a realization somewhere in the world of prog/metal bands and labels that this is vanishingly unlikely to happen and it's instead a better idea to put forward something that's going to excite your core audience and attract people who are on the fringes of your audience.

See, for example, Avantasia releasing The Raven Child, the longest song on the album at 11 minutes, as the lead single for Moonglow. One of the least accessible songs on the album, but a perfect choice to get Avantasia fans excited, bring in Blind Guardian fans due to Hansi Kursch's prominent guest spot, and potentially appeal to prog metal fans.

Oh, I'm aware of this since Pink Floyd released "High hopes" as a single fom 1994's "The division bell". And more recently, Helloween with "Skyfall" (that's why I put "usually"). But in both cases those were the last songs of the albums. TA is an opener...

[chwik]

I wouldn't be surprised that we get the first three songs before the album release in the same manner as DOT. That leaves about 45 min of music left for album release.

[genome]

Yep, the song's clicked with me now, really enjoying it. You'd think that, after 16 years of being into the band, I'd let things digest before making my mind up, but there you go 

It's miles better than Untethered Angel as a lead single, for me. And I ended up really enjoying the rest of DOT, so that bodes really well.

I'm also really enjoying the production. I think Dream Theater's music works better with a more natural sounding mix, as opposed to the really hyped sound of DOT.

[ReaPsTA]

So I am playing the song right now then I heard my 8-year old humming the JP outro solo while he's drawing Pokemon. This daddy's heart is filled with joy. 

I don't believe you.  We already established several pages ago that the song lacks melody and hooks.

ololololololololololol

[darkshade]

I wouldn't be surprised that we get the first three songs before the album release in the same manner as DOT. That leaves about 45 min of music left for album release.

This is a big reason I'm avoiding all singles until album release. It kind of spoiled DoT first listen for me, and the singles became some of my least favorite DT.

[lovethedrake]

It's exciting that when the song ends I'm just itching to hear more.... the mix and production are so good that it really makes me super excited for the album.   I really like the Alien and if the rest of the album is as good this will be a killer record.

As an aside, totally off topic, I'm not a huge Live Album guy but I finally listened to "Score" as many have talked about that as the peak of DT.    Wow do they sound amazing, and James slays that entire show.   

[TAC]

You finally listened to Score?? Wow!

It's amazing to think that's it's 15 y/o this week.

[tofee35]

So, this is a beast of a song. There is so much going on. At face-value, it's a wank fest. But, so is Glass Prison... so after 20+ listens, I absolutely love this song now. There's something about DT's music that takes, even the biggest fan, some dedication to fully consume. It doesn't always click, but it did click for me on this song.

10 years ago, this song was exactly what I would have expected a Mike Mangini-throned Dream Theater would sound like. There are no remaining Portnoy-isms, his insane ambidexterity and calculus are at their max capacity. The yin and yang between that and Petrucci's melodic passages just make this a great new DT song for me. There's more to talk about, but I feel like that's what grabs me the most. I hope the rest of the album is similar. This is like the next step in their progression and MM has totally absorbed all the space possible. 

-Tof

[Dream Team]

It's exciting that when the song ends I'm just itching to hear more.... the mix and production are so good that it really makes me super excited for the album.   I really like the Alien and if the rest of the album is as good this will be a killer record.

As an aside, totally off topic, I'm not a huge Live Album guy but I finally listened to "Score" as many have talked about that as the peak of DT.    Wow do they sound amazing, and James slays that entire show.

Why?

[lovethedrake]

It's exciting that when the song ends I'm just itching to hear more.... the mix and production are so good that it really makes me super excited for the album.   I really like the Alien and if the rest of the album is as good this will be a killer record.

As an aside, totally off topic, I'm not a huge Live Album guy but I finally listened to "Score" as many have talked about that as the peak of DT.    Wow do they sound amazing, and James slays that entire show.

Why?

Why what?

[emtee]

The sound quality of this song is just phenomenal. Myung and Mangini sound incredibly clear. Based on this alone, the new album will probably be a top 5 for me. I would LOVE it if this team would have been used on every album from ADToE forward. Can you imagine?

[Dream Team]

It's exciting that when the song ends I'm just itching to hear more.... the mix and production are so good that it really makes me super excited for the album.   I really like the Alien and if the rest of the album is as good this will be a killer record.

As an aside, totally off topic, I'm not a huge Live Album guy but I finally listened to "Score" as many have talked about that as the peak of DT.    Wow do they sound amazing, and James slays that entire show.

Why?

Why what?

Why have you never heard or watched Score before?? A famous, amazing 20th anniversary show.

[lovethedrake]

Fair question... I just usually pay more attention to the studio albums and not the live albums.  I've seen them 12 times live so it just doesn't get me that excited but I admittedly am loving it .

[BeatriceNB]

It's exciting that when the song ends I'm just itching to hear more.... the mix and production are so good that it really makes me super excited for the album.   I really like the Alien and if the rest of the album is as good this will be a killer record.

As an aside, totally off topic, I'm not a huge Live Album guy but I finally listened to "Score" as many have talked about that as the peak of DT.    Wow do they sound amazing, and James slays that entire show.

Why?

Why what?

Why have you never heard or watched Score before?? A famous, amazing 20th anniversary show.

Yeah, nothing says amazing better than an orchestra that can't tune and a drummer who rushes every song (compromising his bandmates and the orchestra) because he can't play to a click because of his ego, amazing indeed 

[Peter Mc]

Sounds pretty amazing to me and it's not even a set that includes many of my favourites.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, nothing says amazing better than an orchestra that can't tune and a drummer who rushes every song (compromising his bandmates and the orchestra) because he can't play to a click because of his ego, amazing indeed 

You're right about the orchestra, but I don't agree with the criticism of Portnoy.  He never played to a click live.  He grew up in a time of drummers that never played to a click live.  Back when I played drums, I played live to a click once and hated it.  It robs the life out of the performance, giving no room for variance.

Frankly, a lot of songs SHOULD be at a faster tempo live.  That's the difference between live and studio.  Live should feel ALIVE, not just a carbon copy of the original recording.  It's the one fault I have with the Mangini era, and I'm not blaming Mangini for it, because I imagine his preference would also be to play without the click.  He's a professional drummer, he has a good sense of time.  As does Portnoy.

And technically, Portnoy didn't "rush" every song.  It's only rushing if you're playing faster than the other bandmates anticipate playing.  That's not what was happening.  They just played faster live (or rather, were never slaves to the click track), and everyone in the band knew it was going to happen.  And he didn't compromise the orchestra.  Not sure what that even means.

[Stadler]

With you, Hef.  That just sounds like an unnecessary shot to me. 

[Ben_Jamin]

I don't think drumming could've saved that rendition of Vacant. It was a good idea on paper, but I did not enjoy that arrangement. The Answer Lies Within on the other hand is fantastic.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't think drumming could've saved that rendition of Vacant. It was a good idea on paper, but I did not enjoy that arrangement. The Answer Lies Within on the other hand is fantastic.

The arrangement of TALW is definitely better, but the song itself sucks pretty bad, so it doesn't matter much.

Vacant was kind of an odd choice for that set list, although not the only one.

[ReaPsTA]

I don't think drumming could've saved that rendition of Vacant. It was a good idea on paper, but I did not enjoy that arrangement. The Answer Lies Within on the other hand is fantastic.

The arrangement of TALW is definitely better, but the song itself sucks pretty bad, so it doesn't matter much.

Vacant was kind of an odd choice for that set list, although not the only one.

I have to imagine Vacant was only in there for time purposes.

Not a fan of the arrangement either. Took all the darkness out of it.

[Peter Mc]

I don't think drumming could've saved that rendition of Vacant. It was a good idea on paper, but I did not enjoy that arrangement. The Answer Lies Within on the other hand is fantastic.

The arrangement of TALW is definitely better, but the song itself sucks pretty bad, so it doesn't matter much.

Vacant was kind of an odd choice for that set list, although not the only one.

I have to imagine Vacant was only in there for time purposes.

Not a fan of the arrangement either. Took all the darkness out of it.

I can't be bothered checking but, from memory, wasn't Vacant the only TOT song that was not on the Budokan live album?  Makes sense then, the way Mike operated, that this would be the TOT song they picked as they obviously went with something from every album.  It helps as well that it's the only short song on the album as they were already playing two huge epics.

[TAC]

HTF was not on Bukokan.

[bosk1]

HTF was not on Bukokan.

No.  But it wouldn't have fit either.  As we've been over tons of times through the years, given all the different constraints they were under, there isn't really a way they could have altered the set very much without fundamentally altering the type of set they were trying to deliver. 

[TAC]

Hey I was just answering a question!

[Peter Mc]

Hey I was just answering a question!

You're right, I always forget about that song.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I wish they didn't have the time constraints that they did on Score. Stream of Consciousness should have been played with Vacant.

[bosk1]

I wish they didn't have the time constraints that they did on Score. Stream of Consciousness should have been played with Vacant.

Yeah, same here.  I played around with different variations of the set list to see whether that could happen, and couldn't find a way to make space for it.  The most likely way would be if you cut TALW (which I am in favor of), and went with shorter available songs from WDADU, I&W, and FII, and that still doesn't get you enough additional time to fit SOC.  Adding the entire SDOIT really tied their hands on the set list within the structure of what they were trying to do (represent their entire catalog from the Majesty period through the current album AND support their new album).  I get why those chose to play SDOIT.  And I'm glad they did.  It was the perfect opportunity to do something like that, and it was awesome that they did.  But the consequence of them including it is that it destroyed a lot of their options to play anything other than what they did.  And in the grand scheme of things, that's fine.  It's a great set.  It's just that, in hindsight, a lot of us would have preferred some different songs in some of those slots.  In the end, it is what it is.