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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Kotowboy on August 12, 2021, 06:53:45 AM
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Post all your spoilery thoughts on the new single THE ALIEN in here!! So people who don't want to know how it sounds can still read the other thread !!
I'm going to listen on Spotify at midnight tonight ( tomorrow? ) and will post what I think after a few listens ! :coolio
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:omg: Checking the 90 second preview on iTunes and it sounds HUGE! The guitar tone is so chunky. Everyone sounds really good.
Production wise it sounds like Distance Over Time and a heavier Astonishing ( production wise..! )
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Well, holy shit mangini. Sick playing.
Not too fond of the vocal melodies. There's a great amount of music to be digested, but liking it overall. Also loved the unison.
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I can't wait to hear it at midnight. The new trivium song is out today too and that's really great.
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Just dropped for me in Australia. This song just leaves a huge smile on my face. Lots of music to digest, production wise sounds fantastic and MM is just slaying it. Bit of something in there for everyone. I have no doubt there will be mixed reactions, but personally, I’m very impressed overall. Now to just not go too nuts listening so I can keep it somewhat fresh…
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Yeah ...Mangini stood out for me too. I like the vibe/production but the song structure is a bit of a mish mash to me - parts better than the sum of them - but I think I might be on my lonesome there.
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I would love to read the lyrics as I can not hear clearly everything Labrie was saying. Are we sure this is not a sequel to Pale Blue Dot? :rollin
From the Youtube credits, it seems Labrie is the lyricist?
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On my 5th or 6th listen now. Didn't like it on the first one. More accurately, it left me cold and didn't know what to feel or think. This one definitely needs time to sit well - and a pair of headphones!
But now it's coming together.
Liking it much more than UA and TEI (for the sake of the MM-era first single comparisons), I guess more than GOM and OTBOA, as well.
Stronger points: instrumentation and production. The sound is top-notch AND I am listening to a YT version so that is bound to get better on the official release. Myung is VERY audible and punchy, which I am loving. Though he has been more prominent in recent albums than he's been in years prior. Mangini is spot on. His best performance in DT? Quite possibly. Also, love the in-your-face, straight to the point beginning.
Negatives: verses are not very memorable, melody-wise. LaBrie sounds good, he stayed within his comfort zone, but I think that's a wise move considering...well. Chorus ok I guess but nothing to write home about.
In short, the song shines throughout its instrumental parts (intro, from 4:40 until the last verse/chorus and in the outro).
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So on my 4th listen, I decided to listen to it back to back with PBD. PERFECT! :lol
The vocal melodies are not memorable but I think it would make more sense when we hear the whole album. It looks like this will be a concept album?
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So on my 4th listen, I decided to listen to it back to back with PBD. PERFECT! :lol
The vocal melodies are not memorable but I think it would make more sense when we hear the whole album. It looks like this will be a concept album?
Did the same - there seems to definitly be a connection between Alien and PBD, just listen to the lyrics in the first verse, which corresponds somewhat with each other (survival for mankind, running out of time vs save us from ourselves etc)
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I've never used a VPN service before, but apparently I'll do anything to get my Dream Theater fix! :lol
The idea was to listen to it once and then stay away, but the first listen didn't do much for me. So I just had to give it a few more plays, with headphones. That helped a lot.
+ the production! It's been a while since I enjoyed the sound in a Dream Theater album this much
+ Mangini! Guy's on fire!
+ the melodic sections, particularly the outro :heart
+ just the overall feeling, on the third playthrough I really started enjoying this. It's a lot to digest.
- if I should point out a weakness I'll say the vocal melodies. DT usually have great choruses, but this one was a bit "meh". The track is way more about the instrumentals than the vocals. Fingers crossed James gets to shine on other tracks. Not that he did a bad job here, far from it, but he wasn't really given much to work with.
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Just listened it. I think it's "meh". Nothing new on the table, same melodies, same arragement.
+ Mangini sounds more melodic not robotic. His tones are strong this time.
+ Production is surely better.
+ Sweet outro and guitar solo.
- Song feels so disjointed between sections. Intro- middle - outro and even passages sound like so different and patched into one. I can't feel the connection.
- Rudess' playing, melodies so out of place for me.
- It's like they wrote this song to be instrumental but then they force themselves write the lyrics. So, vocals don't fit. Vocals melodies are out of place. Not that James is bad. It's just so forced.
I don't think I listen it again anytime soon and I hope this song is album's worst.
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Just had a listen. Solid song, if a bit predictable.
James is the weak link here, and he is still capable of great vocal performances. He isn't given much room to breathe here, and the vocal melodies feel a bit forced. Like he was forced to come up with lyrics and melodies, on top of a 10 minute jam section. That can't be easy. The effects on his voice didn't help.
On the other hand, the band sounds great! Great main riff, and a tasteful solo from Petrucci. I don't know why, but the whole song reminded me of "In the Presence of Enemies". Part 1 to be precise. Sounds very "Systematic Chaos" to me..
Will have to listen to this more to form a verdict, but it's solid and doesn't deter my excitement for the album.
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As usual, mixed reactions from the DT fans. My biggest concern going into this album is JLB. It sounds universal that the production is great. That is A#1 priority for me. Tomorrow I get the chance to hear for myself.
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This song is pretty generic, predictable DT if you ask me, but I usually always have a more negative opinion on first listen on most things. I'm sure it'll grow.
Just find it lacks a bit of energy on a whole, but the middle solo section was cool. Got a Obfuscation (BTBAM) vibe from it. The outro was very nice too. JLB has become a shadow of his former self, a shame.
Each DT album has it's own vibe, atmosphere and personality. DT have fallen into the trap that a lot of bands do where albums just start to have the same sounds and characteristics, if that makes sense.
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Geez, you guys are rough. I’m not sure what you expect from them.
I heard it a couple times, but it was a shitty YouTube version. I’ll wait until tomorrow to listen to the good quality one.
After a couple of listens, I thought it was cool. Interesting lyrics, from what I could understand. Cool riff, great melody that gets reprised in a different way. Amazing drumming. Different types of keyboard sounds than normal. Defiantly one of the most technically complex songs they’ve done. I like it.
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Somebody copied and posted the song lyrics on the DT Facebook group. Written by James, as far as we know:
"The Alien"
Look beyond the Earth, heading set for the stars
Interplanetary, some are near, some are far
Terraform a new world, survival for mankind
Options but a few, we are running out of time
Should you climb aboard
A voyage, the first of its kind
Ready to explore
All that you've known left behind
Our Holy Grail
Now redefined
Our purpose, a thread
Weaving through time
Now with the means to expand
Life beyond here, digital man
Alien, changed forever
New found world in the stars
Understand the meaning
Certain we'll extend the scale of consciousness
Woman, child and man
Multi planet species out amongst the stars
Not stuck in and around who and what we are
Time to climb aboard
Countdown to takeoff on time
Systems are online (5, 4, 3, 2)
Farewell to all humankind (1)
Our Holy Grail
Clearly defined
Our purpose, a thread
Weaving through time
Now with the means to expand
Life beyond here
Digital man
Alien, changed forever
New found world, here we are
Our Holy Grail
Clearly defined
Our purpose a thread
Weaving through time
Now with the means to expand
Our Holy Grail
Read between the lines
One purpose, one thread
Weaving throughout time
Now with the means to expand
I am the alien
Out here in the stars
We'll search till we find
No matter how far
A far better world
For all human race
And beyond
Looks like it was written from an Astronaut's perspective, so yeah, it does feel like a thematic sequel to PBD.
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Some of the rhythmic stuff is really cool, and I liked the percussion part (some The Mars Volta feelings tbh). As expected, Mangini is amazing, of course. Beyond that, I didn't like anything else.
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This song is pretty generic, predictable DT if you ask me, but I usually always have a more negative opinion on first listen on most things. I'm sure it'll grow.
Just find it lacks a bit of energy on a whole, but the middle solo section was cool. Got a Obfuscation (BTBAM) vibe from it. The outro was very nice too. JLB has become a shadow of his former self, a shame.
Each DT album has it's own vibe, atmosphere and personality. DT have fallen into the trap that a lot of bands do where albums just start to have the same sounds and characteristics, if that makes sense.
This is one of the downfalls of having an over the top vocalist… sooner or later he’s going to age. My biggest concern is always James now because he can’t sing like he could in the 90’s and understandably so.
JP can buy a new guitar, James can’t buy a new vocal chord.
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Very average and generic song. After a few listens is really not doing it for me. James is the weakest link but the whole thing just sounds like a rehash of other songs/ideas, there is nothing in this that is fresh and exciting.
Hoping for better songs on the album.
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Still haven't heard it but I will the moment I see it available.
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I thought it was quite good, but I see where people are coming from about it feeling a little disjointed, and James really is buried. I had no idea what he was saying at points.
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Only one listen in but, just as an instant reaction, it didn’t do anything for me at all. Very disjointed, no melodic hook to me at all in the vocals. There are some nice Petrucci moments here and there and I’m sure it’s a technical masterclass but left me cold. Lots of notes but none of them memorable. Maybe this is hyperbole as I may be forgetting something but I can’t remember ever enjoying a DT song less than this on my first listen.
That could all change in time but first impression is that there’s no danger of me overplaying this before the album release.
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The lyrics.
#dreamtheater
"The Alien"
Look beyond the Earth, heading set for the stars
Interplanetary, some are near, some are far
Terraform a new world, survival for mankind
Options but a few, we are running out of time
Should you climb aboard
A voyage, the first of its kind
Ready to explore
All that you've known left behind
Our Holy Grail
Now redefined
Our purpose, a thread
Weaving through time
Now with the means to expand
Life beyond here, digital man
Alien, changed forever
New found world in the stars
Understand the meaning
Certain we'll extend the scale of consciousness
Woman, child and man
Multi planet species out amongst the stars
Not stuck in and around who and what we are
Time to climb aboard
Countdown to takeoff on time
Systems are online (5, 4, 3, 2)
Farewell to all humankind (1)
Our Holy Grail
Clearly defined
Our purpose, a thread
Weaving through time
Now with the means to expand
Life beyond here
Digital man
Alien, changed forever
New found world, here we are
Our Holy Grail
Clearly defined
Our purpose a thread
Weaving through time
Now with the means to expand
Our Holy Grail
Read between the lines
One purpose, one thread
Weaving throughout time
Now with the means to expand
I am the alien
Out here in the stars
We'll search till we find
No matter how far
A far better world
For all human race
And beyond
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Ok Gang i'm home from work. I watched all my new YouTube subscriptions first ( Ler LaLonde interview for Gibson ! ) and now i'm purchasing the song from iTunes and am about to listen...
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Nice punchy production. I'm listening on my nice SONY over-the-ear headphones and my volume was a bit too loud when it kicked off :xbones hehe
That spidery riff at about 1:11 is very Octavarium to me. The album not the song.
I can't pin down which song/album it most reminds me of production wise. A bit Black Clouds with less reverb ? A thicker Astonishing ?
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It has improved with repeat listens. I’m still not there with it yet but I’m enjoying some of it now, still more of the instrumental stuff than the actual singing parts but it’s progress!
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I think it will feel a bit better once we get an official video.
...It moves along quickly though. I feel like it's just started and it's already on 5 minutes in.
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First impressions : I like it and will probably like it more with repeated listens. It reminds me of Dream Theater crossed with Distance Over Time and a pinch of The Astonishing.
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Daring DT. No hooks in first listen. Classic Petrucci solo. In for a new classic. Like it! Try to digest the content, too much opinions on first sight..calm down and listen. DT is not your next expected neighbour...if this is the first taste 😋
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I am the alien
Out here in the stars
We'll search till we find
No matter how far
A far better world
For all human race
And beyond
The song from this point forward is gold. The vocal melody took a nice surprise that reminds me of the Grand Finale of SDOIT. Then Mangini played double time under JP's epic outro to express the joy of going out to space. Then the ending takes unexpected but enjoyable turns. Love it.
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I think a music video of the guys grilling meat in a spaceship would get lots of views
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I am the alien
Out here in the stars
We'll search till we find
No matter how far
A far better world
For all human race
And beyond
The song from this point forward is gold. The vocal melody took a nice surprise that reminds me of the Grand Finale of SDOIT. Then Mangini played double time under JP's epic outro to express the joy of going out to space. Then the ending takes unexpected but enjoyable turns. Love it.
I agree. I am mormon and we have a song called “If You could hie to kolob”
It has a similar sentiment to “The Alien” and it made me smile
https://youtu.be/fc4aptFGpRg
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My real disappointment so far in this song is Jordan. This has been going on for quite a few albums now, but he does not end his solos in a way that transitions nicely to the next section.
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Hey Bertie, did you not notice the guy like 2 posts above you already posted the lyrics?
So I guess no “magic” on this song like JLB promised?0
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No I didnt. It snuck up on me
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Posting on this forum for the first time in years to say hooooly SHIT that was amazing. Far and beyond the best DT song since DT12. I understand the criticisms stated previously in this thread, but this song (for me) just works. Super energetic, amazing instrumentation, feels very fresh and surprised me quite a few times with where the song went. I think JLB sounds great but agree that the verses/chorus aren’t memorable vocal melodies. The drumming though….gotta be in the top 5 best drum tracks in DT history, and definitely my favorite from Mangini so far. Fucking outstanding. I am very very excited for this album, and after 2 really good but not amazing albums, I am incredibly happy to feel this excited about a DT album again. Bring on the rest!!!
(And yes I know I sound like an overly-positive fanboi but he’ll that song got me going haha)
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Thoroughly enjoying this! Wonder if LaBrie wrote it thinking about the TV show Raised By Wolves...
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"meh". Nothing new on the table, same melodies, same arrangement.
- Song feels so disjointed between sections. Intro- middle - outro and even passages sound like so different and patched into one. I can't feel the connection.
- Rudess' playing, melodies so out of place for me.
- It's like they wrote this song to be instrumental but then they force themselves write the lyrics. So, vocals don't fit. Vocals melodies are out of place. Not that
I hope this song is album's worst.
Gotta agree with this. I think it started out GREAT and then once the vocals & especially the lyrics kicked in, the song became very "samey" to DOT. Not a bad song at all, just not great or memorable. Oh well. Nice to hear JM & MM more proficient in the mix though.
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WOW. 15 albums and they're still making music that's THIS good. My plan is still to only have listened to this single once before the full album comes out, but considering how much I like this after just one listen, it might be hard to abstain from listening to it more. James LaBrie is probably my favorite singer ever, and I've always liked his performances, but in this song, he sounds exceptionally great. He sounds like he did around the Metropolis Part 2 era, and his singing on this song is just so pleasing to the ears.
Really great song overall. I wasn't worried at all that they'd release something subpar, but with this song, I'm more excited than ever for this album to come out.
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Flat snare drum sound
Again
*sigh*
I'm listening to a YT link, so maybe it's that but, still...
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It reminds me of Dream Theater crossed with Distance Over Time and a pinch of The Astonishing.
SPOT ON.
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So far I've only heard it once.
I agree it sounds pretty generic (at least on a first listen). But Beatrice is right, some of the rhythmic stuff is really cool!
Mike Mangini totally badass :biggrin:
Replace Mike Mangini with Mike Portnoy and this song would be completely DT by numbers.
But I don't usually trust the first auditions since I listened to SDOIT for the first time and hated the whole disc 1. :lol
Great drum sound and great bass sound (which is what really matters :biggrin:)
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how did labrie's voice decline this much in 5 years? he was one of the better things about the astonishing, and then on DOT he sounds awful, and it seems even worse somehow, on this album. I know it's only one song but his voice just sounds so flat and so much quieter in the mix than it was a few albums ago (DoT suffered from the same problems)
The song is pretty decent. Intro has some cool ideas (the half time riff is awesome but it's painfully short) and the outro is good but really sounds like razor's edge.
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Some parts were awesome, and some parts were meh. But overall, It was great and can't wait to hear this one live.
Love that Solo before the first verse, and that ending.
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First listen, like it a lot. Could have more going on vocally given the length, but the end was cool. Was a fun listen and should be great live.
Haha cover of the single has nothing to do with the lyrical content wth
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Great drum sound and great bass sound (which is what really matters :biggrin:)
The drum sound is too much of the same flat muffled "hitting a towel" sound they've had for too long in the MM era, IMO. Thought it did get better during the solo breakdowns.
And I do like how busy MM was on the cymbals.
Yes to the bass sound. Nice farty tone.
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For the first time in my DT history (15 years) I have to say I was not impressed at all. The whole song was bad and let me explain why.
DT has always been clever to keep things complicated but they have always done the transitions smootly or somehow that it fits to the song. In The Alien transitions were too odd. It's like "oh, another riff and time signature. Oh, where did that riff came from." It feels to me that they pushed some time signature change there for no reason. There's some good moments but they destroy the build up with another feel and riff.
DT has also always been good to build good vocals melodies even the verse melody can be hard. In The Alien it feels like LaBrie is just singing something and there's too much odd transitions on vocal melodies too. It feels like they haven't thought enough how the vocals are fit to the song.
On overall this fells like it could have been song from some new progressive metal band from university but I don't expect this from DT. I have been a really big fan boy over the years but my DT fandom has slowly dropped that these new songs just doesn't get that same hype for me than 10 years ago.
EDIT: okay, 5th listen and now I get few vocals melodies and they are okay. Maybe this will grow. Hopefully!
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I think a music video of the guys grilling meat in a spaceship would get lots of views
Hilarious. John with his smoker, serving quality burgers and BBQ chicken to extraterrestrial friends. I love it.
I'm three listens in so far. Like most of you, it didn't capture me entirely through the first listen. I am happy with Mangini's and Myung's mix improvements. Myung sounds wonderful, and Mangini sounds like an absolute monster on this track. There are things that he is doing with the hi-hats that are just borderline alien themselves.
I actually like Jordan's feel here. It's elegant, and settled into the rest of the groove appropriately. A little meedly-meedly action that I thought I had grown tired of, but it brings back memories of Six Degrees for me, so I really can't complain.
The outro had a Finally Free thing going on with it, but I don't mind that.
That's the thing though. My ears didn't walk into this expecting absurdly different. The production is beautiful and sonically, this is our Dream Theater playing their fucking dicks off. You get your gritty riffs, your highs, your lows, and if you find yourself feeling an urgency or desire to listen multiple times in order to dissect everything that is happening, then that's a victory not only for us fans, for the boys as well.
Speaking of expectations, I think it's insane to think that you're going to hear something absurdly different in terms of James' range at this point. He is 58 years old and the fact that he bring forth the energy that is displayed here is more than enough for me. Is it safe for the most part? Probably, but I'm also of the opinion that some songs don't require dangerous maneuvers off the diving board. That said, I think James' approach here works well. Is he, or the lyrics for that matter, a highlight? No, absolutely not. The way everything strings together, the way that only Dream Theater can pull off, is the true highlight.
This, to me, is their strongest single since "On The Backs of Angels".
TREMENDOUS unison by John and Jordan too. A showstopper moment for this song.
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First impression: reminds me a lot of TCOT and PBD, in a good way. Not sure what problem folks are having with the vocals. James and the vocal melodies sound great to me.
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For the first time in my DT history (15 years) I have to say I was not impressed at all. The whole song was bad and let me explain why.
DT has always been clever to keep things complicated but they have always done the transitions smootly or somehow that it fits to the song. In The Alien transitions were too odd. It's like "oh, another riff and time signature. Oh, where did that riff came from." It feels to me that they pushed some time signature change there for no reason. There's some good moments but they destroy the build up with another feel and riff.
DT has also always been good to build good vocals melodies even the verse melody can be hard. In The Alien it feels like LaBrie is just singing something and there's too much odd transitions on vocal melodies too. It feels like they haven't thought enough how the vocals are fit to the song.
On overall this fells like it could have been song from some new progressive metal band from university but I don't expect this from DT. I have been a really big fan boy over the years but my DT fandom has slowly dropped that these new songs just doesn't get that same hype for me than 10 years ago.
Well... Metropolis 07:14.
Metropolis is by far my favorite DT song, but that part is fucking weird. :biggrin:
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3 listens for me now, and that’s where I’ll keep it until the album drops. I really, really like this single. For me, while a few songs have been growers over the years, I also generally know after a couple of listens, if it’s something I’ll revisit. I remember when OTBOA came out, and UA, I was like “they’re cool enough”, but almost overplayed them to see if I was missing out on something. They just never fully gelled. And truth is, I rarely revisit them. Fall into the light was one I loved - and still love to this day, where I’m excited to hear it again if it pops up on a playlist etc. The Alien has a similar vibe for me. I don’t need to overplay it, as I already know I genuinely enjoy it and will be excited to hear it again. Just a great intro, the outro is even better, awesome soloing and tight production.
I’m honestly fine with James too. I don’t think he’s overstated in this song and that’s fine - he doesn’t need to be in every track. My first listen I just sat back and took it all in, the next listen I put the lyrics up (got the Apple Music version), and everything started to take more shape and become familiar. Third listen was this morning in my car, and it all sounded great - coherent, solid and rocked my way to work :metal
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Another thought I had during Jordan's solo: dude really needs some new tones for his solo. He's done the phased "wzzzzzzzzzz" thing to death
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For the first time in my DT history (15 years) I have to say I was not impressed at all. The whole song was bad and let me explain why.
DT has always been clever to keep things complicated but they have always done the transitions smootly or somehow that it fits to the song. In The Alien transitions were too odd. It's like "oh, another riff and time signature. Oh, where did that riff came from." It feels to me that they pushed some time signature change there for no reason. There's some good moments but they destroy the build up with another feel and riff.
Well... Metropolis 07:14.
Metropolis is by far my favorite DT song, but that part is fucking weird. :biggrin:
Haha, I think that crazy part just have to be there for no reason ;D Metropolis is a crazy song overall but still the transitions and build ups are thought well.
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I'm really happy about this song, especially for what it indicates as a single.
I do agree that it sounds a little disjointed, but so are so many other classic DT songs. Scarred, The Dark Eternal Night, and Metropolis Pt. 1 are disjointed as hell. I get that some songs do disjointed better than others, but DT is sporadic and jarring fairly often. It's intentional, and I think it's a ton of fun - not to mention how sick the instrumentation is that they're switching between.
The vocal melodies aren't DT's most memorable. But the super hopeful sounding bridge toward the end stood out as fresh on my first listen and I think that section is memorable at least in terms of vocal melodies. James sounds comfortable in this range too and I'm happy about that. There aren't any obnoxiously cheesy lyrics like on SC or Black Clouds either imo.
The riffing is insane and I think JM distinguishes his bass line from the guitar part better than usual, especially in a single. Drums are absolutely nuts but still super fun and intuitive to groove too since they weave those common motifs in there. Good lord I absolutely love the drum part and the rhythmic wankery, and paired with the improvement in mix its even better. Cool variety of moods, more space to help my ears rest temporally throughout and to provide contrast. Cool tone changes and really dynamic soloing from JP that doesn't just morph into relentless shredding.
This stuff is discusting with a C. Holy stank face batman. This is my favorite DT single is OTBOA easily. Minor complaints I get but for me, it's just really really sick DT music.
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I love it so much. I don't think I've ever been more delighted with one of their singles.
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It could be because I'm a Sci-Fi dork, but I think this song is, in spite of some real flaws, kind of great.
Obviously the song's twist is that "the alien" is us. It turns out this was actually hiding in plain sight. In the preview version of the artwork we just see a human being tractor beamed into a UFO, presumably being captured. But, in the full art, we see a homeless looking alien sitting on the street, recontextualizing the human as a rich conquerer going back to base. It's a great concept and Huge Syme should get credit where it's due.
What's cool about the lyrics is they synthesize space-faring with transhumanism. "Digital man, alien, changed forever." We're aliens both to the worlds we conquered and to some fundamental aspect of human nature we're leaving behind in order to to achieve a grander purpose. "Our Holy Grail, Ready between the lines... A far better world, for our human race, and beyond". Humanity's spreading not just itself but the products of its technology.
All of that's very art school, but what makes it work is the musical presentation. Most of the song is relentless and dark riffing. It's evocative not of wonder and exploration but of conquest. Yet, there *are* hints of exploration in the lyrics. The alien talks about how there *is* a grander purpose to it. Musically you get a hint of that with melodic guitar solo at the beginning. I don't know exactly how to explain it, but DT sort of borrows the musical language of Cygnus and 2112 by Rush and makes it their own by adding the metal element. Those are songs about epic battles for the stars and this is a song about setting the stage for one.
Everything comes together perfectly in the final minute and 45 seconds. The final "I'm the alien" section is such a resolute statement of purpose, which goes into a soaring JP solo with MM/JM in double time bringing the hype over the top. Now hear us truly, we are humans on a grand adventure into the stars! But then, the dark riffs return, inescapably. No matter what story we tell ourselves, we are here to unleash ourselves.
I'd really be down for this to be a concept album. Even if it doesn't end up being that way, still a cool piece of storytelling.
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For the first time in my DT history (15 years) I have to say I was not impressed at all. The whole song was bad and let me explain why.
DT has always been clever to keep things complicated but they have always done the transitions smootly or somehow that it fits to the song. In The Alien transitions were too odd. It's like "oh, another riff and time signature. Oh, where did that riff came from." It feels to me that they pushed some time signature change there for no reason. There's some good moments but they destroy the build up with another feel and riff.
DT has also always been good to build good vocals melodies even the verse melody can be hard. In The Alien it feels like LaBrie is just singing something and there's too much odd transitions on vocal melodies too. It feels like they haven't thought enough how the vocals are fit to the song.
On overall this fells like it could have been song from some new progressive metal band from university but I don't expect this from DT. I have been a really big fan boy over the years but my DT fandom has slowly dropped that these new songs just doesn't get that same hype for me than 10 years ago.
EDIT: okay, 5th listen and now I get few vocals melodies and they are okay. Maybe this will grow. Hopefully!
All due respect, as people will completely have their own opinions (I also just noticed your edit). But I will say, I feel the transitions are fine. Perhaps it could seem that way, as its new music and takes time to become more familiar - particularly in a track that isn't just standard and has a fair few ideas going on.
But overall, it starts frantic with some great solos and then a more melodic solo piece, hits the verses and choruses which are similar and tie in, gets a nice unison solo, then goes back to an awesome retake of the chorus to see the song out in a crescendo with the same melodic solo piece from the intro (with MM just killing it at the same time). I dunno - it all seems really coherent and well put together to me...
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This really is different, weird, yet Dream Theater. Not like any of their other songs at all. Some have mentioned PBD, but it's different. Eerie. Heavy. In your face and then peeling it off... With each listen it grows exponentially better :metal.
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First impression: reminds me a lot of TCOT and PBD, in a good way. Not sure what problem folks are having with the vocals. James and the vocal melodies sound great to me.
I hope it's just Youtube,
EDIT: If you can listen on Spotify or some higher quality streaming service I recommend doing so. Youtube's compression is not kind to JLB on this song. It takes the problems listed below from an unfortunate flaw that can overlooked to distractingly weird sounding
The vocal mix could be a bit better. The de-essing (to make the hiss in "S"s less harsh) is way too strong, and it makes all the intonation sound worse than it probably actually is. It also sounds like some of the higher end of his voice was shelved out or something. It's like they played JLB's vocal track through a speaker with a blanket covering it, recorded that, then used it as the vocal track. It's not too bad, but it's odd how the vocals are the least bright element in the mix.
Overall, still easily the best mixed product DT's put out since FII. The bass mix in particular is god tier.
The riffing is insane and I think JM distinguishes his bass line from the guitar part better than usual, especially in a single. Drums are absolutely nuts but still super fun and intuitive to groove too since they weave those common motifs in there. Good lord I absolutely love the drum part and the rhythmic wankery, and paired with the improvement in mix its even better.
What I love about the drumming is, if you pay attention to it, it has more going on and is more interesting than most actual songs. But if you're not into drumming, it never gets in the way inappropriately and you don't notice any of the little things.
And there's just so much creativity, like the double hi-hat splashes and the octobons at the start of the guitar solo. Mangini is insane in this song.
I do agree that it sounds a little disjointed, but so are so many other classic DT songs. Scarred, The Dark Eternal Night, and Metropolis Pt. 1 are disjointed as hell. I get that some songs do disjointed better than others, but DT is sporadic and jarring fairly often. It's intentional, and I think it's a ton of fun - not to mention how sick the instrumentation is that they're switching between.
The one big criticism I have is that the overall songwriting is a step back from the rest of the Mangini era. It's not as bad as it was on, say BCSL, but like a minute or two of riffs and solos could have been cut without being missed. During the intro, I was ready for the vocals to come in at a couple different points but there were more riffs to be played. And I think I hear JR play one full keyboard solo and then another with a different patch???
Most of the other songs on this album are shorter though so I'm not super worried.
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For the first time in my DT history (15 years) I have to say I was not impressed at all. The whole song was bad and let me explain why.
DT has always been clever to keep things complicated but they have always done the transitions smootly or somehow that it fits to the song. In The Alien transitions were too odd. It's like "oh, another riff and time signature. Oh, where did that riff came from." It feels to me that they pushed some time signature change there for no reason. There's some good moments but they destroy the build up with another feel and riff.
DT has also always been good to build good vocals melodies even the verse melody can be hard. In The Alien it feels like LaBrie is just singing something and there's too much odd transitions on vocal melodies too. It feels like they haven't thought enough how the vocals are fit to the song.
On overall this fells like it could have been song from some new progressive metal band from university but I don't expect this from DT. I have been a really big fan boy over the years but my DT fandom has slowly dropped that these new songs just doesn't get that same hype for me than 10 years ago.
Well... Metropolis 07:14.
Metropolis is by far my favorite DT song, but that part is fucking weird. :biggrin:
Huge disagree, that whole section is smooth af
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Haha, I think that crazy part just have to be there for no reason ;D Metropolis is a crazy song overall but still the transitions and build ups are thought well.
Huge disagree, that whole section is smooth af
:lol :lol
I've been trying to get 100% used to that part for 25 years.
But a love Metropolis. No complaint.
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Well look at reaction videos of Metropolis 1 and I think most will say it feels disjointed when the instrumental break comes. I don't mind it but it's easy to see why.
Anyyyyyyway. Kinda thought this song was really cool. Got really scared when people started mentioning Raw Dog as a comparison, something I can happily disagree with ;D For a long time I have wanted something really chaotic from DT. Most singles plays it very safe but sometimes manages to get my interest (Gift of Music). PBD I thought was going to be that chaotic song but in the end it was just a bit chaotic within the instrumental breaks but played it safe with the overall structure. This one is way more all over the place. Not sure I have a problem with the breaks either, quite the opposite. I keeps the song going and interesting all the way through.
This could go down as one of the best singles they ever released in my book.
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I always find comments of disjointedness amusing given that Dream Theater defined their musical style with Metropolis Pt. 1. :lol
Anyway, one could only imagine how good the past-MM DT albums would have sounded if we actually heard his cymbal work like in this song. I remember watching Youtube videos of live performances of Illumination Theory and man, a lot of amazing cymbal work was not audible in the studio version.
I find myself smiling in Mangini's "drum solo" with the octobans / cannon drums from 5:25 to 5:35. He is still keeping time with his snare!
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The one big criticism I have is that the overall songwriting is a step back from the rest of the Mangini era. It's not as bad as it was on, say BCSL, but like a minute or two of riffs and solos could have been cut without being missed. During the intro, I was ready for the vocals to come in at a couple different points but there were more riffs to be played. And I think I hear JR play one full keyboard solo and then another with a different patch???
Most of the other songs on this album are shorter though so I'm not super worried.
I heard you.
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Most of the other songs on this album are shorter though so I'm not super worried.
Haha well AcTuaalLY there are 3 songs that are shorter and 3 that are longer 🤓
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I will stop spamming now but at around 6:02 there's this JP riff that sounds so similar. Is it Lost Not Forgotten?
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I always find comments of disjointedness amusing given that Dream Theater defined their musical style with Metropolis Pt. 1. :lol
Anyway, one could only imagine how good the past-MM DT albums would have sounded if we actually heard his cymbal work like in this song. I remember watching Youtube videos of live performances of Illumination Theory and man, a lot of amazing cymbal work was not audible in the studio version.
I find myself smiling in Mangini's "drum solo" with the octobans / cannon drums from 5:25 to 5:35. He is still keeping time with his snare!
I used to use the disjointedness argument to criticize some songs/suites until recently (eg Haken's Messiah Complex - which I really don't like). But I realized that there are a lot of prog music that I love that can be called disjointed too. So..... :lol
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I will stop spamming now but at around 6:02 there's this JP riff that sounds so similar. Is it Lost Not Forgotten?
https://youtu.be/GlhLcewMORY?t=432
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Andy Sneap needs to remix the other Mangini albums pronto, starting with DT12.
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I always find comments of disjointedness amusing given that Dream Theater defined their musical style with Metropolis Pt. 1. :lol
Anyway, one could only imagine how good the past-MM DT albums would have sounded if we actually heard his cymbal work like in this song. I remember watching Youtube videos of live performances of Illumination Theory and man, a lot of amazing cymbal work was not audible in the studio version.
I find myself smiling in Mangini's "drum solo" with the octobans / cannon drums from 5:25 to 5:35. He is still keeping time with his snare!
Have you listended to the past MM DT albums in the high res versions in Apple music? I crancked DT12 with Illumination Theory in the car yesterday on the Harman Kardon stereo, and I could definitly hear a lot more nuances in MM drumming. In fact the overall sound of the album seems much better than the CD version.
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DT songs usually sound disjointed on first listen… not worried about that.
The mix and production alone will make this an enjoyable record and there’s no sign of them phoning it in. There’s a ton of energy and creativity going on.
I agree that the vocals are a bit of a bummer until the very end…. I actually loved James on DOT so hopefully this is just one song where they drown him.
Mangini is a beast no doubt but it’s all technical to me. There’s not a lot of “melody” in his drumming. Maybe it’s just the way the song is written. Maybe I’m just crazy.
I’m excited to see where they take the rest of the album.
That song gave me shades of so many different DT albums so it will be interesting to see what else comes!
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Well look at reaction videos of Metropolis 1 and I think most will say it feels disjointed when the instrumental break comes. I don't mind it but it's easy to see why.
Anyyyyyyway. Kinda thought this song was really cool. Got really scared when people started mentioning Raw Dog as a comparison, something I can happily disagree with ;D For a long time I have wanted something really chaotic from DT. Most singles plays it very safe but sometimes manages to get my interest (Gift of Music). PBD I thought was going to be that chaotic song but in the end it was just a bit chaotic within the instrumental breaks but played it safe with the overall structure. This one is way more all over the place. Not sure I have a problem with the breaks either, quite the opposite. I keeps the song going and interesting all the way through.
This could go down as one of the best singles they ever released in my book.
Metropolis has the interesting detail of being the only* non-The Astonishing DT song to be through-composed. On top of having a complex instrumental passage. It makes a lot of sense that people don't find it cohesive at first.
*a case can be made for Octavarium and Outcry, but I personally don't count those because they have repeating choruses.
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I will stop spamming now but at around 6:02 there's this JP riff that sounds so similar. Is it Lost Not Forgotten?
https://youtu.be/GlhLcewMORY?t=432
That's it! Thanks! ;D
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I always find comments of disjointedness amusing given that Dream Theater defined their musical style with Metropolis Pt. 1. :lol
Anyway, one could only imagine how good the past-MM DT albums would have sounded if we actually heard his cymbal work like in this song. I remember watching Youtube videos of live performances of Illumination Theory and man, a lot of amazing cymbal work was not audible in the studio version.
I find myself smiling in Mangini's "drum solo" with the octobans / cannon drums from 5:25 to 5:35. He is still keeping time with his snare!
I used to use the disjointedness argument to criticize some songs/suites until recently (eg Haken's Messiah Complex - which I really don't like). But I realized that there are a lot of prog music that I love that can be called disjointed too. So..... :lol
Messiah Complex takes the cake for being the worst song I have ever heard. It changed my paradigm about music completely (I used to be a huge technique advocate before that), and I stopped listening to the band since then.
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DT songs usually sound disjointed on first listen… not worried about that.
The mix and production alone will make this an enjoyable record and there’s no sign of them phoning it in. There’s a ton of energy and creativity going on.
I agree that the vocals are a bit of a bummer until the very end…. I actually loved James on DOT so hopefully this is just one song where they drown him.
Mangini is a beast no doubt but it’s all technical to me. There’s not a lot of “melody” in his drumming. Maybe it’s just the way the song is written. Maybe I’m just crazy.
I’m excited to see where they take the rest of the album.
That song gave me shades of so many different DT albums so it will be interesting to see what else comes!
Well, on a scale of 0 to 100, my understanding of the concept of "melodic drumming" is roughly 0.6. :P
As I said before, for me MM is the best thing on the single....by far!!!
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Most of the other songs on this album are shorter though so I'm not super worried.
Haha well AcTuaalLY there are 3 songs that are shorter and 3 that are longer 🤓
Whoop missed Awaken the Master
I will stop spamming now but at around 6:02 there's this JP riff that sounds so similar. Is it Lost Not Forgotten?
https://youtu.be/GlhLcewMORY?t=432
That's it! Thanks! ;D
Surely
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Messiah Complex takes the cake for being the worst song I have ever heard. It changed my paradigm about music completely (I used to be a huge technique advocate before that), and I stopped listening to the band since then.
I decided that Haken's discography is:
2013 - The Mountain.
And that's it. :lol
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Messiah Complex takes the cake for being the worst song I have ever heard. It changed my paradigm about music completely (I used to be a huge technique advocate before that), and I stopped listening to the band since then.
Hahaha that is the one song from Haken I really like (ok sure Mountain have some stuff as well) ;D The chaotic and disjointed structure is so much fun to listen to. The overall song isn't a masterpiece or something I regularly go back to, but when it comes on Spotify I enjoy it.
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I will stop spamming now but at around 6:02 there's this JP riff that sounds so similar. Is it Lost Not Forgotten?
https://youtu.be/GlhLcewMORY?t=432
I noticed that one right away. Wasn't sure if I was just imagining it. :lol I thought the same thing listening to In the Presence of Enemies for the first time, there's a part in both parts (lol) where MP uses the exact same drum part from The Root of All Evil.
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I always find comments of disjointedness amusing given that Dream Theater defined their musical style with Metropolis Pt. 1. :lol
Anyway, one could only imagine how good the past-MM DT albums would have sounded if we actually heard his cymbal work like in this song. I remember watching Youtube videos of live performances of Illumination Theory and man, a lot of amazing cymbal work was not audible in the studio version.
I find myself smiling in Mangini's "drum solo" with the octobans / cannon drums from 5:25 to 5:35. He is still keeping time with his snare!
Have you listended to the past MM DT albums in the high res versions in Apple music? I crancked DT12 with Illumination Theory in the car yesterday on the Harman Kardon stereo, and I could definitly hear a lot more nuances in MM drumming. In fact the overall sound of the album seems much better than the CD version.
I am actually already happy with my "Mastered for iTunes" versions. I just wish that they managed to make the cymbal work pop out like in The Alien. For years, MM had to suffer the criticism that he doesn't know how to play cymbals.
Speaking of cymbals, there is this portion from 4:48 to 4:55 where Mangini made the highlight on the stacks in the left, and then the next line it's in the right, and then next line back to the left. It's sonically pleasing on good earphones. NERD!
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Wow. Fresh, unexpected, crammed with detail, not immediate. The sound is great to my ears. James sounds lovely.
Happy camper here. Can't wait for the rest of the album. :)
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Messiah Complex takes the cake for being the worst song I have ever heard. It changed my paradigm about music completely (I used to be a huge technique advocate before that), and I stopped listening to the band since then.
I decided that Haken's discography is:
2013 - The Mountain.
And that's it. :lol
For me, it is:
2016 - Affinity
:lol
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“Endless Dream” by YES is very disjointed but also a masterpiece
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Wow. Fresh, unexpected, crammed with detail, not immediate. The sound is great to my ears. James sounds lovely.
Happy camper here. Can't wait for the rest of the album. :)
I'm with you all the way on this one! :coolio :metal
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“Endless Dream” by YES is very disjointed but also a masterpiece
Endless Dream is perhaps my favorite song of all time by anybody! :heart
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how low must've DT fallen if this is considered top-notch production/sound by the fanbase... :-\
yeah, it sounds much better than previous ones but still mediocre at best... almost zero tonality, reverb or any character at all from drums - great playing though by MM (finally showing some musicality)
i like both Johns' playing on this one
- listened 24/96 qobuz, spotify and yt versions with sennheiser hd600 with dedicated dac and amp.
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I just listened for the third time, I do really like it now. It’s a shame that James and Jordan are a bit buried, but it doesn’t feel nearly as disjointed as it did last night. The transition between the heavy intro to the hopeful intro solo still feels a tad abrupt but the whole song makes a lot more sense now. That, and I’m really happy with how the drums sound and, as everyone on Earth has already said, MM is playing out of his mind on this track. I really hope they keep it up for the rest of the album. :metal
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Nice fat bottom end to the bass here, definitely liking that. Production is for me the best it’s been since MM joined the band.
The song is uh, pretty busy and complex haha. Listened twice at a nice loud volume through my beloved headphones.
Vocal melodies are just ‘there’ but JLB sounds fine to me. Very safe, but I can live with that. Some FX in the opening sentences but overall the vocals sound more natural to me than on the last couple of records.
I don’t know, it just sounds like pretty complex Dream Theater so far. What stands out to me are the sections where they let stuff breathe where JP’s rhythm guitar and the keys are left out during the guitar solo.
I liked UA and Paralyzed a lot more on first listen because those songs make a lot more sense LoL, but I can definitely appreciate the increased ambition here.
Have to say the song comes together quite well when James sings his last sentences and the outro that follows. Really dig how JP’s last bended note lands on that half-time groove.
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I like this new song. Especially the mix overall. People talking about the drums, but the bass is also very present. A job well done i'd say. The composition for me is 'typical' DT. So depending on what meaning typical has for you (common, expected, regular, normal ...) this is good or bad? ;-)
For me it's recognisable but pleasant to hear, great - really supurb - guitars, a lot of details to discover (each time I listen I find something new) and most of all the song in it's whole sounds just right. It's really complex music and if you have ever tried to mix so much instruments the way like this sounds, you can't have but respect. Really well done DT!
So, bring on the next song please :metal
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Feels very much lifted from the SC/BC&SL era but I'm already liking this a lot better. The first verse remind anyone of Count of Tuscany?
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This song is pretty generic, predictable DT if you ask me, but I usually always have a more negative opinion on first listen on most things. I'm sure it'll grow.
Just find it lacks a bit of energy on a whole, but the middle solo section was cool. Got a Obfuscation (BTBAM) vibe from it. The outro was very nice too. JLB has become a shadow of his former self, a shame.
This is exactly how I felt about the 1st act of the song. The solo sections were terrific though. And JP's outro solo was pretty fresh. JLB is the most generic part of the song. Not bad, just bland (imo)
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Only 2 listens, but I'm really loving it. I love when DT goes a bit more over the top in its instrumentation as they never lose their musicality (that's the very reason I love this band so much). Great performances by all (ok, James isn't the focal point here) and Mangini and Myung sound gloriously well (killer, killer mix!). So I'm very happy with the overall direction of the sound.
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I can't do it, I said I wouldn't listen but I have no self control...hold on *loads youtube*
Alright, I can start my work day now. Not a bad song at all. About what I expected honestly in terms of heaviness and nice solos. The ending was really cool. It reminded me of a lot of their older songs, and honestly it has a lot of similarities (vocal melodies at least) to PBD.
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It does seem like it's continuing the same kind of "vibe" we found on Terminal Velocity and LTE3, just with added JLB this time. Same sort of sound, similar riffs and parts.
It's a bit of a chaotic mish-mash (found the same with LTE3 on some tracks as well) but I enjoyed it. The one thing it's really lacking for me is a good hook. The chorus is a bit underwhelming. Didn't have a problem with the vocals though, it sounds like JLB's in his comfort zone, which for me is a good thing.
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This song feels like an intro to the rest of the album?...is the whole album one big epic/or threading theme?
Vocals at begining melody is untethered angel which confused me, right down to the guitar chunking on the one low chord / choice of scale for melody, but the rest of the song was much fresher. I think Labrie sounded great, he's not singing "another day" who gives a crap if he's not hitting what my wife calls "that one high note" lol. He's a story teller w a great voice. Besides everyone in dtf seems to be hoping for him to sing in range and not blow out his voice, seems like this is the intro/will be for the shows, let a guy warm up, let the music build!
There are some great JP moments, wondering if there are themes that appear throughout album and that's why people feel "disjointed" feels like 6 degrees or astonishing intro at times; either way also just opinion but i think we can mostly all admit "disjointed" is a common complaint for most people listening to any DT song w multiple parts, so let's be real it is endearing at this point or we wouldn't be listening, more is more.
Jordan playing with some interesting sounds; i dig the intro how the sound builds w JP's harmonics; also 6:50 the modulation on that note on headphones is really fun (probably will be nuts live if its loud enough), hope there are more moments like that re: the solo build in "a rite of passage" (also around 6:50) would love to see him just go nuts w the sounds. (side note when JP kicked off this section i was caught a little off guard that this type of slower solo section appeared so early on in the album - had a sort of S2N vibe for a second). Again they mixing it up and will be great in a show.
John and Mike totally holding it down as usual. I also really enjoyed the final section of the song and how upbeat it was, like the characters in the song have a fighting chance but they're also gonna go through some sh*t. Also they left in some tasty MM stuff like the hat at the end, tight but loose, "just fun" as he would probably say.
The concept of us becoming the aliens is great, would be cool if the vfttotw (sorry i never saw the answer to how we are abbreviating this title, lol) was sort of the climax of colonizing and building a new world to the point of having to leave again.
But what do I know, I thought the title the astonishing was going to be like a vaudevillian hey look how amazing these guys are the astonishing dream theater and was going to be a pure shred album where they let MM totally off the chain; but my guess was pretty wrong there (definitely didn't complain at the show in nyc though :hefdaddy :metal).
For me DT just brings me back to growing up and wanting to shred guitar and getting to actually feel some real emotion other than standard cliche's through heavy music. Whatever they make will be fun and I hope we all get to see them live this year, cause I have feeling this particular set will be pretty exciting to watch.
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This song feels like an intro to the rest of the album?...is the whole album one big epic/or threading theme?
Several times throughout I said to myself "This feels like an overture".
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Am I crazy or does the video released on YouTube sound better than the iTunes release?
The volume on the video is way louder on my phone and it seems to give it better range when I turn it down slightly.
Any audiophiles have any input here? It sound good on both but seems more colorful and vibrant on the YouTube video just released.
Again, perhaps I’m just crazy but it’s weird that it’s the max volume is coming through so much louder on YouTube.
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Overture ehh? Interesting.....
I agree, this seems like a follow-up to PBD. From JP's intro solo to the vocal refrain. And yes - I too hear shades of previous albums.
Love it!! :metal :metal
BTW - I am not going to comment on the musical production until I have the CD/DVD although I guess I can run it through the Bluetooth in the car to get an idea.
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It was decent. Drums were really good and I'm not a fan of much of MM's work in DT thus far.
The instrumentation was fun but very DT by the numbers and didn't offer anything new to me personally.
Vocals were just not very good sadly.
Might skip this album actually. We'll see how some of the others are.
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So...DT released a music video that is not bad at all!
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Ok, that was awesome. Very cool song. When the instrumental kicks in with those toms and then JP’s solo, that was magnificent. They even won me over with a somewhat cheesy sci-if themed lyric. A lot of it felt like it would have fit on SDOIT (vocals reminded me a lot of that album). Might be the best thing they’ve done since SDOIT.
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The song is awesome!
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Ok, with more repeated listens, I’m enjoying this now quite a bit. I always like giving my instant reaction to see how it changes over time but it’s a pretty cool song. I don’t think it’s destined to become an all time favourite or anything but perfectly fine.
Not understanding all the talk of JLB being buried. He’s crystal clear to me when listening on Apple Music.
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Very disjointed, no melodic hook to me at all in the vocals. There are some nice Petrucci moments here and there and I’m sure it’s a technical masterclass but left me cold. Lots of notes but none of them memorable..
That could all change in time but first impression is that there’s no danger of me overplaying this before the album release.
At the end of my first listen now and these are my initial thoughts first spin. Stand outs to me are MM for sure, and JM sounds good.
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It's leagues better than PBD which had no melody. This one is heavy but has great melodic moments. JLB might sound "buried" but I suspect that was done intentionally -- maybe like a Space Control vibe? His voice sounds different, but in a good way. Better than recent albums. Good vocal melodies. Overall, definite progression of sound for this band, which is absolutely incredible. It's awesome
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Very disjointed, no melodic hook to me at all in the vocals. There are some nice Petrucci moments here and there and I’m sure it’s a technical masterclass but left me cold. Lots of notes but none of them memorable..
That could all change in time but first impression is that there’s no danger of me overplaying this before the album release.
At the end of my first listen now and these are my initial thoughts first spin. Stand outs to me are MM for sure, and JM sounds good.
I think I'm in this camp too :/
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I suppose I'm going to be in the minority here...
Listened to the song last night and again this morning...my takeaway? I LOVE IT.
As others have noted, the production is top notch. Very much in line with 'The Astonishing,' which, despite my overall disappointment, is a record that I think 'sounds' amazing.
–JP is in top form...the intro solo reminded me of ITPOE Pt. 1, and I love his phrasing.
–JR brings his usual bag of tricks, but I particularly enjoy his piano playing throughout.
–MM and JM sound great...this is probably the best this 'rhythm' section has sounded on record.
–JLB kills it. I love the lyrics and concept, and I think the production and mix of the vocals is a step up from DOT. Again, I am in the minority here, but my first impression was that the vocal melodies were a perfect fit for this song. I actually find this chorus to be very 'catchy,' especially for what feels like an Overture of sorts. Different strokes of course, but to my ears, James sounds in great form, and there's a lot more 'bottom' and fullness to his voice this time out (as compared to DOT).
–As for the actual song itself...I feel it is an adventurous arrangement that covers a surprising amount of ground for its length.
I am very excited for the new album, but as a standalone 'single,' this is easily my favorite song released since 8VM, surpassing 'Constant Motion,' 'Rite of Passage,' 'On The Backs of Angels,' 'Enemy Inside,' 'Gift of Music,' and 'Untethered Angel.'
Kudos to the band!
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The volume on the video is way louder on my phone and it seems to give it better range when I turn it down slightly.
Any audiophiles have any input here? It sound good on both but seems more colorful and vibrant on the YouTube video just released.
I think one of the main reasons people give a negative review is a knee jerk reaction from listening to the song on their cheesy phones.
For the first listen, I piped it in through my big house stereo and it sounded outstanding! The vocals sounded just right in the mix too, and JLB did a great job imo. I'm really excited about the mix, and I think this blows away any single from the previous few albums. I've only listened to the song twice, and everything clicked on the second time around. I have a very good feeling about this album. :coolio
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The volume on the video is way louder on my phone and it seems to give it better range when I turn it down slightly.
Any audiophiles have any input here? It sound good on both but seems more colorful and vibrant on the YouTube video just released.
I think one of the main reasons people give a negative review is a knee jerk reaction from listening to the song on their cheesy phones.
For the first listen, I piped it in through my big house stereo and it sounded outstanding! The vocals sounded just right in the mix too, and JLB did a great job imo. I'm really excited about the mix, and I think this blows away any single from the previous few albums. I've only listened to the song twice, and everything clicked on the second time around. I have a very good feeling about this album. :coolio
This.
I get being disappointed in the way something sounds, but I need to at least hear something in my car before I'm going to really dissect it.
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I suppose I'm going to be in the minority here...
Listened to the song last night and again this morning...my takeaway? I LOVE IT.
As others have noted, the production is top notch. Very much in line with 'The Astonishing,' which, despite my overall disappointment, is a record that I think 'sounds' amazing.
–JP is in top form...the intro solo reminded me of ITPOE Pt. 1, and I love his phrasing.
–JR brings his usual bag of tricks, but I particularly enjoy his piano playing throughout.
–MM and JM sound great...this is probably the best this 'rhythm' section has sounded on record.
–JLB kills it. I love the lyrics and concept, and I think the production and mix of the vocals is a step up from DOT. Again, I am in the minority here, but my first impression was that the vocal melodies were a perfect fit for this song. I actually find this chorus to be very 'catchy,' especially for what feels like an Overture of sorts. Different strokes of course, but to my ears, James sounds in great form, and there's a lot more 'bottom' and fullness to his voice this time out (as compared to DOT).
–As for the actual song itself...I feel it is an adventurous arrangement that covers a surprising amount of ground for its length.
I am very excited for the new album, but as a standalone 'single,' this is easily my favorite song released since 8VM, surpassing 'Constant Motion,' 'Rite of Passage,' 'On The Backs of Angels,' 'Enemy Inside,' 'Gift of Music,' and 'Untethered Angel.'
Kudos to the band!
We’re on the same team!
I loved it. I’ve enjoyed every release, but this is the best song in awhile! Without a doubt the best pre-release single.
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The volume on the video is way louder on my phone and it seems to give it better range when I turn it down slightly.
Any audiophiles have any input here? It sound good on both but seems more colorful and vibrant on the YouTube video just released.
I think one of the main reasons people give a negative review is a knee jerk reaction from listening to the song on their cheesy phones.
For the first listen, I piped it in through my big house stereo and it sounded outstanding! The vocals sounded just right in the mix too, and JLB did a great job imo. I'm really excited about the mix, and I think this blows away any single from the previous few albums. I've only listened to the song twice, and everything clicked on the second time around. I have a very good feeling about this album. :coolio
Well it was on earphones though… the sound is literally louder on the music video than on Apple Music. Just seems strange and it seems like the video allows for more range.
I would say this is my favorite single since octavarium other than gift of music.
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I'm always amused when I see comments like "but there's no hooks!" for a song by a progressive rock band. :D
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After my initial listen, I’m in the camp of it’s to disjointed as well.
I don’t want to hear the, “it’s Dream Theater, what did you expect?” comments either. Most of us have been fans for 30 years, we know the drill. It just sounds like they put too many ideas into this one song and it just doesn’t flow to me. Some parts are great, some miss the mark.
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This is available on streaming services now as well (at least Amazon unlimited). After watching the youtube video I streamed the HD version on Amazon over my room speakers. I actually thought it sounded worse, but my bluetooth setup never does anything justice. Haven't tried with a cable, which usually sounds better. But I've noticed even Amazon HD doesn't sound as good as the CD, so who knows.
Listening again, and the vocal sections are a bit of a mess. The instrumental sections are very cool though for the most part.
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It really does get better with every listen. My first listen was last night and although it definitely impressed me in many camps, I didn't quite get it.
I'm going for my third or fourth listen this morning and it's blowing my mind away. So good. It's all over the place and I fucking love it.
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Still can't get over the ending. It's like JLB, who wrote the lyrics and presumably the vocal melodies, suddenly goes "hey, I got something up my sleeve" then unleashes those wonderful vocals. Then the band finally revealed their hand and ended the song on a high.
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My first impressions is that I like it, but I'll need more listen to really make a proper judgment. There were some transitions that did feel a bit jarring, but I might get used to them as I get more familiar with the song. But I like the sound overall and it seems like every member is quite balanced soundwise.
And I thought James sounded really nice. He stays mostly in a comfortable range, which to me is a good thing. But there's enough variation and his delivery is energetic enough that it doesnt sound boring. There was also some interesting textures with the vocals that I thought were different from what we heard in DT before which is cool.
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Agreed w/ the camp of people saying keeps getting better. Also as someone said in the other thread, watching it with the video definitely adds appreciation for whats happening / being said musically (also strangely sounds better than the itunes version). Regardless if the album is one concept, or its an album of "concept as song" where every track is a standalone epic vibe, it going to be one hell of an album.
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Three listens in… and it’s…Dream Theater.
The thing is bleeding hooks. It’s just that they’re brief and when you realize it, they’re on to the next one.
I mean, AROP had hooks but I’m taking The Alien all day long.
I love the ending.
DT, as always, will check a lot of boxes on the album, so if anyone didn’t get out of The Alien what they hoped, I have no doubt you’ll be more than satisfied when the album comes out.
Me, I like my DT a little wanky. And I liked this.
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Three listens in… and it’s…Dream Theater.
The thing is bleeding hooks. It’s just that they’re brief and when you realize it, they’re on to the next one.
I mean, AROP had hooks but I’m taking The Alien all day long.
I love the ending.
DT, as always, will check a lot of boxes on the album, so if anyone didn’t get out of The Alien what they hoped, I have no doubt you’ll be more than satisfied when the album comes out.
Me, I like my DT a little wanky. And I liked this.
Yeah, all of that. I agree with the couple of people who have said that this is quite a bit different for a lead single for them. It's not anything new for DT in general. But I would expect something like this as a deep album cut, not a single. I guess they figure that people who listen to them know what to expect, so they can just put themselves out there like this now, and that's a cool thing.
Also meant to say in my "first impression" post that there is a lot in the first part of the song that reminds me of the instrumental section of Sacrifices Sons and parts of ITPOE.
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Heard it once and liked it. My favorite parts were Petrucci's solos and the bass tone.
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Only listen to it once but I’m with Tim and Bosk. It’s not anything really new, but it’s very different for a lead single. I love that seems to be more of a grower than an instant hook…those songs tend to have more staying power with me.
It’s extremely hard to tell from the YouTube version that I heard, but it appears we are in for a treat as far as the mixing and sound goes.
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I love the crazy drums and timing changes, but disappointed that there's no sci-fi sounds or effects, everything is still standard DT. If they release the stems I could do a cool sci-fi remix.
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Just took a break from work to watch the video. Pleasantly surprised after the fairly pointless animated things last time around. This actually enhances the song and helps tell the story. Ok it’s not a super expensive thing with the band included but as a visual accompaniment, it works.
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I love the crazy drums and timing changes, but disappointed that there's no sci-fi sounds or effects, everything is still standard DT. If they release the stems I could do a cool sci-fi remix.
There will be a 5.1 mix so kinda
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First listen, I like it!
I hear melody, not sure why others aren't. I think maybe like TAC said, they are short little hooks. I like it. Instrumentation is really strong here. This sounds like DT through and through so maybe that's a good thing or bad thing depending on your take. I've never been the type that thinks bands need to change, as long as the new music is good, I don't mind holding onto your style. My only issue is JLB, and it's not that he's bad here, it's just that, this is who he is now. I've accepted that, but it does kind of feel different when he's really not soaring with the vocals and it's really a bit restrained to fit his current vocal abilities. It is what it is.
Also, it feels like there's a lot of similarities to other songs here. I got a bit of a ITPOE pt1 vibe with the intro. That JP intro solo reminds me of Barstool Warrior. There's probably more, but I only got one listen in.
As for disjointed... it's a 9 minute DT song. That's kind of expected in some ways. I don't mind it, comes off well to my ears and tastes. :metal :metal
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Couple of additional thought on James:
-Again, no complaints whatsoever about his vocal performance or the melody. I do get what a few have mentioned about the vocals effects being very heavy, and distorting his voice. But to me, I didn't even question it right from the getgo ever if it was a bit jarring because the spacey effects are consistent with the subject matter of the song. To me, it fits perfectly.
-On the last album, I made a point to really compliment James as a lyricist. I don't necessarily go crazy over all of his lyrics. But a lot of them really stand out to me, and on the last album in particular, I think he really stood out and was really on his A-game. I was thinking about that going into this one. And a few of the passages on this song initially seems overly simplistic (I didn't read through the post of the entire set of lyrics). So, when listening to this, I caught myself thinking "Oh well. I guess you can't always expect a home run. Sometimes, you just have to be content with a base hit or a walk." Then I processed the ending of the song and was like, "Oh, wow. That's actually a pretty clever twist, and pretty in line with James's typical insightfulness. Well done. :clap:"
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Wow! What a weird choice to be released as a first song.
It took me 3 listens to get anything out of the song. Keeps getting better!
There´s so much happening. This must be the most complicated single by Dream Theater?
The mixing sounds pretty good, nothing to wrong there! All the instruments are easy to hear.
James sound like James and I like that... But somehow I feel that this song is too complicated to have a nice vocal melodies.
Well, Seventh Wonder is complicated but still has nice melodies. So why it doesnt work here. I dont know.
I think that the composer (Petrucci?) shoots James in the foot with this one. James sounds nice, but the melodies are bland and something i´ve pretty used to in post-2010 Dream Theater.
The Ending is the best part of the song! I Really like it.
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It really does get better with every listen. My first listen was last night and although it definitely impressed me in many camps, I didn't quite get it.
I'm going for my third or fourth listen this morning and it's blowing my mind away. So good. It's all over the place and I fucking love it.
Indeed. I'm not surprised. Generally my first DT auditions are not of good quality. :lol
JLB didn't catch my attention on the first audition, but I'm enjoying his vocals more now. :)
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There's a part in the song (I think it would be the pre-chorus?) which reminds me of the heavy verse in "Peruvian Skies". Anyone else?
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Had about 6 listens now. Liked it very much on listen 1 but listen was like CLICK! Love it to bits. Going to try to listen to it any more until the album now.
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Ok, I got a couple spins under my belt..initial thoughts...
Musically it's solid of course, not fantastic, but a solid song. Some nice work by JP, average and predictable stuff from JR.
the vocal parts are killing me though, not JLB's vocals specifically, but the vocal melodies, the lyrics, the chorus and the filters they use. It seems they're trying to go for some dramatic effect and for me it falls short. Im figuring it's specific to this track.
Mangini is a fucking monster. :omg:
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Wow! What a weird choice to be released as a first song.
It took me 3 listens to get anything out of the song. Keeps getting better!
There´s so much happening. This must be the most complicated single by Dream Theater?
The mixing sounds pretty good, nothing to wrong there! All the instruments are easy to hear.
James sound like James and I like that... But somehow I feel that this song is too complicated to have a nice vocal melodies.
Well, Seventh Wonder is complicated but still has nice melodies. So why it doesnt work here. I dont know.
I think that the composer (Petrucci?) shoots James in the foot with this one. James sounds nice, but the melodies are bland and something i´ve pretty used to in post-2010 Dream Theater.
The Ending is the best part of the song! I Really like it.
The melodies are bland since 2010? I feel like JLB vocals were unleashed after MP left the band and that's when they became more melodious. This song, like PBD, doesn't lend itself to much melodious moments but that the way it came out so that's how I will accept it. I am really enjoying all aspects of the musicality! :metal
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For all the people saying that the twists and turns and transitions make no sense and come from out of nowhere:
A) you've heard DT before, yes?
B) go listen to some mathcore. THEN you'll hear changes etc. that make no sense and simply are changes for changes sake (I'm personally not a fan)
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Wow! What a weird choice to be released as a first song.
It took me 3 listens to get anything out of the song. Keeps getting better!
There´s so much happening. This must be the most complicated single by Dream Theater?
The mixing sounds pretty good, nothing to wrong there! All the instruments are easy to hear.
James sound like James and I like that... But somehow I feel that this song is too complicated to have a nice vocal melodies.
Well, Seventh Wonder is complicated but still has nice melodies. So why it doesnt work here. I dont know.
I think that the composer (Petrucci?) shoots James in the foot with this one. James sounds nice, but the melodies are bland and something i´ve pretty used to in post-2010 Dream Theater.
The Ending is the best part of the song! I Really like it.
The melodies are bland since 2010? I feel like JLB vocals were unleashed after MP left the band and that's when they became more melodious. This song, like PBD, doesn't lend itself to much melodious moments but that the way it came out so that's how I will accept it. I am really enjoying all aspects of the musicality! :metal
Haha, I feel the complete opposite :D
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I'm worried DT (like many aging bands from the 80s/90s) has jumped the shark for me. I have a feeling I'll just be thinking "why am I not listening to I&W" ... or Awake, or SFAM, or SDOIT or ...
:-\
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I'm worried DT (like many aging bands from the 80s/90s) has jumped the shark for me. I have a feeling I'll just be thinking "why am I not listening to I&W" ... or Awake, or SFAM, or SDOIT or ...
:-\
I went to a new spin class yesterday. There was only me and another woman. I mentioned I may just put on my earbuds - and the instructor said, "who do you want to listen to?" Dream Theater. "Ok" she said, "I will play them", and she did. Up comes PMU, TEI, PA and then AD. I thought to myself - "please I don't want to workout to I&W."
Really my most listened to DT music is everything but I&W and WDaDu. Not even so much Awake anymore. So, I think its all about personal taste - and that was hashed out earlier this week.
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At first listen:
- Comparing it to previous lead singles, this one feels weird.
- Mangini > everyone
- What a clean and punchy sound, an amazing production
- WTF 10 MINUTES, I FELT LIKE IT WAS 5 MINUTES
- Looks as if they tried to fit a lot of ideas in
- BEST THINGS: The melodic stuff, Myung, Mangini, the dual solo and THAT OUTRO
After some listens
- It is definitely a grower, keeps getting better at each listen
- It does feel weird as a first single, would fit as second or third singles
- I'm starting to note the different parts, they flow better each time I hear them
- The chorus is good, but might have been better
- James at the outro is superb
- MM is a monster on the drums, what an amazing work, he shines in every part of the song
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Three listens in… and it’s…Dream Theater.
The thing is bleeding hooks. It’s just that they’re brief and when you realize it, they’re on to the next one.
I mean, AROP had hooks but I’m taking The Alien all day long.
I love the ending.
DT, as always, will check a lot of boxes on the album, so if anyone didn’t get out of The Alien what they hoped, I have no doubt you’ll be more than satisfied when the album comes out.
Me, I like my DT a little wanky. And I liked this.
Funny you mention AROP, which I consider to be one of DT's most boring singles ever although it's very melodic in nature. Melodic does not always mean it's gonna be good.
This song *has* melody, but it's happening in ways that are definitely more complex to catch on with just the first couple of listens. This is probably DT's most complex, compositionally-wise, single in pretty much forever.
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After, my 3rd listen in the car, I am really loving this song. I don't feel it's disjointed as others have posted because I think that it resolves many of the passages it started out and the song ends as it began (of course not exactly). This song is typical DT. :metal
The only song of DT that I could describe as disjointed is Metropolis Part 1 as it ended as a far different song than it began.
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I'm worried DT (like many aging bands from the 80s/90s) has jumped the shark for me. I have a feeling I'll just be thinking "why am I not listening to I&W" ... or Awake, or SFAM, or SDOIT or ...
:-\
I get where you're coming from, there's nothing really new or exciting on this track for me, it's just more of the same from the last few albums. They continue to amaze me with their skill, but they just can't seem to move me with the music, if that makes sense.
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Because you have heard so much music it eventually becomes hard to get the feeling of novelty.
That isn’t Dt’e fault. Also as people age music hits them differently.
Brain chemistry is involved as well. I take wellbutrin and I know I’ve missed a dose when
I start constantly craving music. You will NEVER regain the sense of wonder you felt listening to
Music in your teens and twenties. Most musicians are artistically spent by age 30.
With JP he is as strong as ever.
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Because you have heard so much music it eventually becomes hard to get the feeling of novelty.
That isn’t Dt’e fault. Also as people age music hits them differently.
Brain chemistry is involved as well. I take wellbutrin and I know I’ve missed a dose when
I start constantly craving music. You will NEVER regain the sense of wonder you felt listening to
Music in your teens and twenties. Most musicians are artistically spent by age 30.
With JP he is as strong as ever.
+1 The wireing of the brains neurological superhighway (dopamin etc.), amongst others, makes you crave for the feeling of the previous high while simultanously shifting the baseline (i.e., although you can get close, the same «substance»/event - e.g., exposure to a familiar artist/band or other areas in life - will never give you the same «high».
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Because you have heard so much music it eventually becomes hard to get the feeling of novelty.
That isn’t Dt’e fault. Also as people age music hits them differently.
Brain chemistry is involved as well. I take wellbutrin and I know I’ve missed a dose when
I start constantly craving music. You will NEVER regain the sense of wonder you felt listening to
Music in your teens and twenties. Most musicians are artistically spent by age 30.
With JP he is as strong as ever.
I respectfully disagree, I'm in my 50s and I'm constantly finding brilliant stuff that moves me immensely. This just ain't it.
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Finally heard it. Feels like a LTE song with lyrics. I liked most the more melodic part, one listening isn't enough to grasp it all but it feels like a good grower :hat
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I'm worried DT (like many aging bands from the 80s/90s) has jumped the shark for me. I have a feeling I'll just be thinking "why am I not listening to I&W" ... or Awake, or SFAM, or SDOIT or ...
:-\
I get where you're coming from, there's nothing really new or exciting on this track for me, it's just more of the same from the last few albums. They continue to amaze me with their skill, but they just can't seem to move me with the music, if that makes sense.
I think I'm there with you guys. This track 'sounds' great.....I love the musicianship.....I know where 'we' stand with JLB and what his abilities are these days so I'm not off put by him.....so all in all I dig the song, but there's just no getting around the fact that the magic seems to be gone when it comes to what we're getting with DT. I'm not suggesting they suck or that they can't play anymore because clearly that's not the case....We're going to get fantastic musicianship.....a good stage show.....and albums that have good songs.....but I've yet to hear an album from them since 6DOIT that I was just floored and blown away.
I've really dug individual songs off of the albums since then...but as a whole 6DOIT was the last album for me that I was just like....WOW pretty much all the way through.
I've enjoyed the post MP era music and think there have been some good songs written....but I don't find myself dialing up those albums as much as I do the 'classic' DT to listen to. I really appreciate the technicality and precision in which MM plays the drums and in all honesty think that when it comes down to technique and ability he is leaps and bounds 'better' than MP.....but the charisma and poetic way that MP plays the drums, his showmanship and ability to captivate both live and on recordings just hasn't been overcome and is the missing piece. While DT is still 'DT' because they've moved on and kept providing it really has not been the same since MP left.
That's not to say the albums they've done since he left would have been 'better' or whatever......BC&SL's was already in that formulaic routine of their songwriting.....what I'm saying is that classic DT sound and vibe is just something magical that cannot be recaptured or replicated. But I will continue to go to every concert I can, buy whatever I can to support them because they're my all time favorite band and know that they'll continue to give us good music with greatness sprinkled in there on occasion.
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I totally hear ya, though I'd disagree in part in that for me, ADToE was definitely a standout album, anyone that still gets a ton of play. The emotions from that and from their output since are night and day to me.
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Ok just tested it in my car… the video sounds a million times better then the Apple Music stream.
The video is so heavy and amazing sounding. The Apple Music sounds soft and not as heavy…
Even the vocals sound way better on the video.
How can this be? I’m concerned that the whole Apple Music upload will end with the same issue
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The first verse chord progression and vocal melody is a dead-ringer for the first verse of Moment Of Betrayal.
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4 spins now. Sound is great. Musicianship is great. The intro solo sounds like a closing, grand finale bit and at that juncture of the song, after this ferocious, energetic build-up, it kinds of throws me off.
I like it but don't love it. Not really getting any deep emotional connection.
Honestly, I'm not sure if I like it or am indifferent. Time will tell.
I'll say this: Mangini is crazy good on this track. JP and JM are also excellent. I'm not feeling JLB.
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I have no problem with JLB's vocals in this song whatsoever. His tone and grittiness fit the vibe and atmosphere the song has going for it. It's like listening to an episode of The Twilight Zone or The Outer Limits, but with a more uplifting ending. I like the way his vocals progress too leaving his good high vocals for the end rather than having him belt them out in the middle of the song.
I actually prefer that he didn't go all out with his vocals, because if he did, then people would complain how he couldn't do those vocals justice live, like his Untethered Angel vocals live.
The lyrics and vocal lines are pretty rhythmic too and quite similar to the vocal rhythm in Room 137.
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I'm worried DT (like many aging bands from the 80s/90s) has jumped the shark for me. I have a feeling I'll just be thinking "why am I not listening to I&W" ... or Awake, or SFAM, or SDOIT or ...
:-\
I get where you're coming from, there's nothing really new or exciting on this track for me, it's just more of the same from the last few albums. They continue to amaze me with their skill, but they just can't seem to move me with the music, if that makes sense.
I think I'm there with you guys. This track 'sounds' great.....I love the musicianship.....I know where 'we' stand with JLB and what his abilities are these days so I'm not off put by him.....so all in all I dig the song, but there's just no getting around the fact that the magic seems to be gone when it comes to what we're getting with DT. I'm not suggesting they suck or that they can't play anymore because clearly that's not the case....We're going to get fantastic musicianship.....a good stage show.....and albums that have good songs.....but I've yet to hear an album from them since 6DOIT that I was just floored and blown away.
I've really dug individual songs off of the albums since then...but as a whole 6DOIT was the last album for me that I was just like....WOW pretty much all the way through.
I've enjoyed the post MP era music and think there have been some good songs written....but I don't find myself dialing up those albums as much as I do the 'classic' DT to listen to. I really appreciate the technicality and precision in which MM plays the drums and in all honesty think that when it comes down to technique and ability he is leaps and bounds 'better' than MP.....but the charisma and poetic way that MP plays the drums, his showmanship and ability to captivate both live and on recordings just hasn't been overcome and is the missing piece. While DT is still 'DT' because they've moved on and kept providing it really has not been the same since MP left.
That's not to say the albums they've done since he left would have been 'better' or whatever......BC&SL's was already in that formulaic routine of their songwriting.....what I'm saying is that classic DT sound and vibe is just something magical that cannot be recaptured or replicated. But I will continue to go to every concert I can, buy whatever I can to support them because they're my all time favorite band and know that they'll continue to give us good music with greatness sprinkled in there on occasion.
You do realise they did a bunch of albums with MP after SDOIT right? If the magic has gone since that album then it doesn’t sound like it’s down to him leaving the band.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you to some extent as I think they peaked with SFAM and, imo SDOIT was the beginning of them going downhill. I don’t like it as much as most do. Where I disagree is that I think the Mangini era has been better than the post Scenes MP era. I will also say for clarity that, when I say downhill, we’re talking about different levels of greatness here not about them doing a Queensryche. DT have never made a bad album imo, I like all of them to varying degrees. I just think that they now make really good albums rather than all time classics and that, in itself, is a tremendous achievement this late in their career. I always hold out hope though that they have another classic in them, let’s hope this is it.
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Because you have heard so much music it eventually becomes hard to get the feeling of novelty.
That isn’t Dt’e fault. Also as people age music hits them differently.
Brain chemistry is involved as well. I take wellbutrin and I know I’ve missed a dose when
I start constantly craving music. You will NEVER regain the sense of wonder you felt listening to
Music in your teens and twenties. Most musicians are artistically spent by age 30.
With JP he is as strong as ever.
I respectfully disagree, I'm in my 50s and I'm constantly finding brilliant stuff that moves me immensely. This just ain't it.
Yeah, I'm with my Bay-area brother here. I've made lots of musical discoveries over the last 5-10-20 years that hit me with as much ferocity as the first time I listened to Zeppelin, Rush, or Dream Theater.
I'm confused with your post Bertie ... is it my age that's the issue, or the age of the band - you seem to flip flop.
I'm pretty sure it's not *my* age that is playing the primary role that I just don't get a 'wow' factor - because as I mentioned, there are more than a few bands that are in their 30s and 40s still recording new music (see: Iron Maiden, Metallica, AC/DC, Ozzy, etc..) that just aren't floating my boat any more - and haven't for quite some time. Rare is the 30 year-old band that is still cranking out great, innovative, and inspired music (IQ is one I can quickly think of off the top of my head). Most older bands are like an aging athlete, still holding on to their glory years, still performing quite well, but just don't have the magic they once had. The biggest culprit on DT in this respect is JLB. IMO, DT12 is the last time he didn't sound heavily (completely?) filtered and/or auto-tuned.
Also, what gmiller said.
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Labrie has no control over the aging of his voice.
It isnt as if he can go buy a new amp like JP can.
Liking a singer or not is a matter of taste.
How did Billy Corgan become richer than anyone in DT with
The singing voice he has? It objectively sounds horrible but
People love it.
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Labrie has no control over the aging of his voice.
It isnt as if he can go buy a new amp like JP can.
Liking a singer or not is a matter of taste.
How did Billy Corgan become richer than anyone in DT with
The singing voice he has? It objectively sounds horrible but
People love it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/3132/5735690507_23d5b93c1c_w.jpg)
Is it a matter of taste, or is it objective?
There's lots of 60+ year old singers that sound as good as they did when they were in their 30s and 40s.
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Good song. I like it.
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Labrie has no control over the aging of his voice.
It isnt as if he can go buy a new amp like JP can.
Liking a singer or not is a matter of taste.
How did Billy Corgan become richer than anyone in DT with
The singing voice he has? It objectively sounds horrible but
People love it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/3132/5735690507_23d5b93c1c_w.jpg)
Is it a matter of taste, or is it objective?
There's lots of 60+ year old singers that sound as good as they did when they were in their 30s and 40s.
You stayed in too long bro...should've pulled the cord after the last post.
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Interesting song. Listened twice and am not sure what to think. It is obviously a technical wonderland, and I really like the sound (if the whole album sounds like that, could be their best sounding album since 6DOIT), but the vocal melodies seemed a bit lacking. Curious to see how much more is revealed on future listens. Some of my favorite DT songs are ones I was iffy on at first, so time will tell.
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Eh it's ok. The beginning and end of the song sounds good, the middle really loses me. Mangini's performance stands out for sure, excellent drumming and some of the best I've heard from him yet. I generally love LaBrie but he doesn't sound great here and I feel like half of it has do to with the vocal melody.
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I do think this sounds a bit DT by numbers - but I don't think they're capable of putting out an outright terrible album. No The Astonishing isn't terrible cause it's mostly piano and not much Prog.
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Labrie has no control over the aging of his voice.
It isnt as if he can go buy a new amp like JP can.
Liking a singer or not is a matter of taste.
How did Billy Corgan become richer than anyone in DT with
The singing voice he has? It objectively sounds horrible but
People love it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/3132/5735690507_23d5b93c1c_w.jpg)
Is it a matter of taste, or is it objective?
There's lots of 60+ year old singers that sound as good as they did when they were in their 30s and 40s.
Jon Anderson is still killing it in his seventies..
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Labrie has no control over the aging of his voice.
It isnt as if he can go buy a new amp like JP can.
Liking a singer or not is a matter of taste.
How did Billy Corgan become richer than anyone in DT with
The singing voice he has? It objectively sounds horrible but
People love it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/3132/5735690507_23d5b93c1c_w.jpg)
Is it a matter of taste, or is it objective?
There's lots of 60+ year old singers that sound as good as they did when they were in their 30s and 40s.
Jon Anderson is still killing it in his seventies..
Yup, killing anything he sings over...
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I'll tell you who's voice still sounds great and that's Bryan Adams. Dude is like 62 and can still reach all the same notes and with the same power.
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Billy Gibons too.
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As a fan of the smashing pumpkins, I can tell you people rip on his voice too these days for the same reason all of the older vocalists get ripped on. Their voices age. And yes, I understand that wasn't the point of bringing him up, but wanted to add that.
Because you have heard so much music it eventually becomes hard to get the feeling of novelty.
That isn’t Dt’e fault. Also as people age music hits them differently.
Brain chemistry is involved as well. I take wellbutrin and I know I’ve missed a dose when
I start constantly craving music. You will NEVER regain the sense of wonder you felt listening to
Music in your teens and twenties. Most musicians are artistically spent by age 30.
With JP he is as strong as ever.
I respectfully disagree, I'm in my 50s and I'm constantly finding brilliant stuff that moves me immensely. This just ain't it.
Yeah, I'm with my Bay-area brother here. I've made lots of musical discoveries over the last 5-10-20 years that hit me with as much ferocity as the first time I listened to Zeppelin, Rush, or Dream Theater.
My interpretation of this, is that he means you've listened to DT for so long that they are no longer interesting. Which kind of makes some sense to me. They have kind of gotten into a mold of their sound and haven't changed much in the MM era. The one album that did change things up, TA, was frowned upon by the fan base. So when you kind of keep hearing this similar style music from the same band, it no longer has the WOW effect. However, you can listen to another band and get that feeling because it will sound fresh to you. I feel like I fall into this catagory, DT songs don't really blow me away anymore like they used to. I do still find enjoyment in them though, just not in the same way. I could be off on my interpretation.
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Labrie has no control over the aging of his voice.
It isnt as if he can go buy a new amp like JP can.
Liking a singer or not is a matter of taste.
How did Billy Corgan become richer than anyone in DT with
The singing voice he has? It objectively sounds horrible but
People love it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/3132/5735690507_23d5b93c1c_w.jpg)
Is it a matter of taste, or is it objective?
There's lots of 60+ year old singers that sound as good as they did when they were in their 30s and 40s.
Jon Anderson is still killing it in his seventies..
Yup, killing anything he sings over...
:lol
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I have bought every DT album since Awake on the day it came out.
DT is the only band I really get giddy about hearing a new album. Mostly because of JP.
The only album I have been “meh” about was Distance over Time.
I liked Soen’s album a lot better.
I love the Alien for both thematic and musical reasons. i think the new album will be a classic.
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I can't really think of many singers around the same age and genre that sounds much better than James, especially if they are around the same age too. But he does stick out more when the rest of the band are always so perfect. That's one element that a lot of other bands don't have going, take something like Iron Maiden and Bruce isn't the only who's performance can sometimes be a little loose.
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Plus Iron maiden has a lot of generic sounding songs
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.
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The video for At Wit's End uses the Blu-ray mix of D/T. Maybe the video for The Alien uses the Blu-ray mix too, and that's why it sounds differently than the streaming versions of the song.
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Labrie has no control over the aging of his voice.
It isnt as if he can go buy a new amp like JP can.
Liking a singer or not is a matter of taste.
How did Billy Corgan become richer than anyone in DT with
The singing voice he has? It objectively sounds horrible but
People love it.
Boy are you going to be surprised about your penis in your 50's.
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Joe :heart
I have bought every DT album since Awake on the day it came out.
DT is the only band I really get giddy about hearing a new album. Mostly because of JP.
The only album I have been “meh” about was Distance over Time.
I liked Soen’s album a lot better.
I love the Alien for both thematic and musical reasons. i think the new album will be a classic.
And that's perfectly fine, that's your objective opinion about it, and I'm not gonna make some long winded excuse about brain chemistry over why, just as you can respect my opinion over why it did nothing for me emotionally I stead of trying to get all bio-psychological on me.
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Labrie has no control over the aging of his voice.
It isnt as if he can go buy a new amp like JP can.
Liking a singer or not is a matter of taste.
How did Billy Corgan become richer than anyone in DT with
The singing voice he has? It objectively sounds horrible but
People love it.
Boy are you going to be surprised about your penis in your 50's.
Man I love you lol
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Would be cool if DT played a short interlude of March of poozers somewhere in the middle of this song
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Some initial impressions of the new single.
-They finally let Mangini cut loose
-Petrucci sounds great on the solos, the riffs are a little on the generic side
-They are doing some cool things as a band in the instrumental sections
-James Labrie sounds bad and there is nothing interesting going on in the vocal melodies (this is just my opinion, and my taste, don't get your panties in a twist if you disagree with this sentiment)
-Myung is mixed in a lot better than he usually is
-Rudess needs some new keyboard patches
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Man…tough crowd.
Not a mind blowing song but when’s the last time a lead off single of a DT album ever been amazing?
As I mentioned in the other thread, production wise this is the best the band has sounded since Mangini joined the band- that alone makes me excited for the album.
Musically, it beats 80% of DoT.
JLB sounds a bit rough during the first verse - the vocal effects processing is doing him no favors. He sounds good once the chorus kicks in, though. Unfortunately, the chorus and vocal melodies in general are lacking a bit. That’s not JLB’s fault though.
But I give it a solid 7-8 out of 10. Despite some aspects I’m not crazy about- I’m very very excited for the new album.
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I do personally have the feeling that stuff that's considered flaws (i.e. the pretty dense and jarring structure and James' melodies) actually complement the theme. In my mind, of course a song about terraforming planets and exploring space in the context of Earth being wrecked is going to have an explorative, yet uneasy and uncertain tension about its progression and that also applies to the vocals that seem to rarely sit on a more singable melody other than the "Our holy grail..." and the "I am the alien..." bits, which feel like moments of acceptance (though not necessarily triumph) among the nervous chaos. For instance, the pretty jagged, hurried melody in the first verse concluding with "Options but a few, we are running out of time" feels very much appropriate. Same with how the part that ends in "...All that you've known left behind" has this kind of obscure, ominous vibe.
The tone keeps switching because in my opinion, a topic like this is pretty complicated and bittersweet (which the ending also musically seems to represent with that ecstatic guitar solo followed by that tense symphonic chordal thing). You've got the seemingly endless possibilities unlocked by technological advancement juxtaposed with the grim realisation that we're escaping our deyaying home planet, which I think is the sort of thing that would spark that sort of inner turmoil represented emotionally by this song (I know I'm kinda repeating myself here, but just to emphasise the point). Given the song's subject matter, I definitely can understand why the vocal melodies aren't typically hooky in the vein of The Enemy Inside or Untethered Angel, which feature more grounded, relatable topics and the melodies seem to reflect their own themes in that regard, too. However, I also think the melodies, while not accessible, are filled with intent and purpose all the same, though I appreciate that this is something down to personal interpretation.
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That's a great take Enigmachine! The music seems to represent the jarring and unsettling situation of uncertainty. The slower melodic sections seem to ignite a spark of hope and adventure into the unknown.
This is quite a fun song all around and right up DT's prog-nerd ally (I mean that in a good way). It seems that DT is fulfilling the fans wishes that Pale Blue Dot would have been more of an epic, and this is part 2. Now I want to hear PBD and The Alien back to back, and with the video footage. :coolio
Could The Alien be a prequel or a sequel?
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Can’t help but imagine what a powerful voice would sound like on this track instead of a buried hyper-processed one. Oh well, as the eloquent saying goes, it is what it is.
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Man…tough crowd.
Not a mind blowing song but when’s the last time a lead off single of a DT album ever been amazing?
As I mentioned in the other thread, production wise this is the best the band has sounded since Mangini joined the band- that alone makes me excited for the album.
Musically, it beats 80% of DoT.
JLB sounds a bit rough during the first verse - the vocal effects processing is doing him no favors. He sounds good once the chorus kicks in, though. Unfortunately, the chorus and vocal melodies in general are lacking a bit. That’s not JLB’s fault though.
But I give it a solid 7-8 out of 10. Despite some aspects I’m not crazy about- I’m very very excited for the new album.
Not trying to pick on James, but if the old DT rule in still in place, that whoever writes the lyrics also write the vocal melodies, because James wrote the lyrics to The Alien, then, yes, it would be his fault if the vocal melodies are lacking.
And I say "if" because I am still unsure of what I think. Feels like it is a song that could grow on me, so I do not want to dismiss it too quickly, even though so far the vocal melodies do seem lacking.
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First impressions: It's alright. Production is on point, I love the drumming, could do without the singing. Lyrics are eh, but I generally don't care much about lyrics anyway, especially with DT. Bass has a strong presence in the mix, which I like a lot. The song reminded me a lot of SC, but that might just be because the way it straight up opens with the over-the-top instrumental section very much like ITPOE.
I think the worst I can say about it is that it sounds like a run-of-the-mill DT song. I just wish they would push a bit more into new areas. That said, still looking forward to the rest of the album, since I ended up really enjoying DoT.
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First impressions: It's alright. Production is on point, I love the drumming, could do without the singing. Lyrics are eh, but I generally don't care much about lyrics anyway, especially with DT. Bass has a strong presence in the mix, which I like a lot. The song reminded me a lot of SC, but that might just be because the way it straight up opens with the over-the-top instrumental section very much like ITPOE.
I think the worst I can say about it is that it sounds like a run-of-the-mill DT song. I just wish they would push a bit more into new areas. That said, still looking forward to the rest of the album, since I ended up really enjoying DoT.
Not directed at you in anyway, just a general thought/question as I see many stating the lack of breaking new ground/run-on-the-mill DT - those wanting new ground so to speak, out of curiosity, which ground do you want DT to break into? They did, amongst other, include a swingjazz blastbeat section in The Astonishing and we all know how the reception of that album ended up (probably leading to a safer approach to DOT).
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I realized why I love the ending so much.
It reminds me of the ending of Exist by Avenged Sevenfold.
A very uplifting melody with close to the same subject matter, especially coupled with James's lyrics "for the whole human race...and beyond". It feels like we're flying through but only space, but time, looking to the next branch of the evolutionary tree.
I wonder whether JP was inspired by A7X, or if there's a common motif that inspired both of them. (I know that both Pale Blue Dot and Exist have a very similar section, but that's because they were both referencing Mars by Holst)
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First impressions: It's alright. Production is on point, I love the drumming, could do without the singing. Lyrics are eh, but I generally don't care much about lyrics anyway, especially with DT. Bass has a strong presence in the mix, which I like a lot. The song reminded me a lot of SC, but that might just be because the way it straight up opens with the over-the-top instrumental section very much like ITPOE.
I think the worst I can say about it is that it sounds like a run-of-the-mill DT song. I just wish they would push a bit more into new areas. That said, still looking forward to the rest of the album, since I ended up really enjoying DoT.
Not directed at you in anyway, just a general thought/question as I see many stating the lack of breaking new ground/run-on-the-mill DT - those wanting new ground so to speak, out of curiosity, which ground do you want DT to break into? They did, amongst other, include a swingjazz blastbeat section in The Astonishing and we all know how the reception of that album ended up (probably leading to a safer approach to DOT).
I didn't like The Astonishing all that much, but that wasn't because of "Lord Nafaryus" (which is one of the stronger tracks for me), but because it felt really bloated without many highlights to warrant the runtime. That said, I actually really appreciated that they went for something new, even if it didn't work out for me.
The thing is, AVFTTOTW will be their 15th release. They have obviously found their audience. And as I said, I actually ended up really enjoying DoT, even though it already was "more of the same" in a sense. But even on that album, my favorite track ended up being Viper King, which is the odd one out and just sounds super fresh.
I just wish they would be a bit more daring in their approach and release something that is a bit more disruptive. Odd example, but King Gizzard released plenty of psychedelic weird jazzy albums for music nerds before suddenly coming up with Infest The Rats Nest, which has become one of my all-time favourites. Hell, fricking Poppy released a metal record last year.
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That's a great take Enigmachine! The music seems to represent the jarring and unsettling situation of uncertainty. The slower melodic sections seem to ignite a spark of hope and adventure into the unknown.
This is quite a fun song all around and right up DT's prog-nerd ally (I mean that in a good way). It seems that DT is fulfilling the fans wishes that Pale Blue Dot would have been more of an epic, and this is part 2. Now I want to hear PBD and The Alien back to back, and with the video footage. :coolio
Could The Alien be a prequel or a sequel?
Indeed this is a good take on the song. I think that if PBT is musing about our place in the universe and V-ger is out there exploring for new worlds then The Alien is definitely the sequel.
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Some initial impressions of the new single.
-They finally let Mangini cut loose
-Petrucci sounds great on the solos, the riffs are a little on the generic side
-They are doing some cool things as a band in the instrumental sections
-James Labrie sounds bad and there is nothing interesting going on in the vocal melodies (this is just my opinion, and my taste, don't get your panties in a twist if you disagree with this sentiment)
-Myung is mixed in a lot better than he usually is
-Rudess needs some new keyboard patches
I dunno about new patches but he seemed to use a lot of patches in this song. I heard the nasty pig, piano, synthy stuff, organ (the Deep Purple sound where the name escapes me). Cool stuff!
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As someone who didn't like the last three albums (especially disappointed by D/T, which I find to be one of their weakest releases, trying to appeal to general audiences too much), I found this single pretty promising. Not at all generic DT; the song is like a roller-coaster ride. Non-straightforward structure, unusual melodies, pretty tense and adventurous. In a D/T comparison, if the lead single to this album is similar to Pale Blue Dot, then I am really hyped to see what the rest of the album is like. I am gonna risk being disappointed, but I am looking forward to some unprecedented craziness
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That's a great take Enigmachine! The music seems to represent the jarring and unsettling situation of uncertainty. The slower melodic sections seem to ignite a spark of hope and adventure into the unknown.
This is quite a fun song all around and right up DT's prog-nerd ally (I mean that in a good way). It seems that DT is fulfilling the fans wishes that Pale Blue Dot would have been more of an epic, and this is part 2. Now I want to hear PBD and The Alien back to back, and with the video footage. :coolio
Could The Alien be a prequel or a sequel?
Indeed this is a good take on the song. I think that if PBT is musing about our place in the universe and V-ger is out there exploring for new worlds then The Alien is definitely the sequel.
That's like the entire premise of Pain of Salvations "BE" concept. Where humans send out a satellite to discover God and then that satellite ends up becoming "God".
Except here, by humans setting out to discover what's out there, humans discover they themselves have now become The Alien.
Very Sci-Fi and a nice theme to explore.
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Some initial impressions of the new single.
-They finally let Mangini cut loose
-Petrucci sounds great on the solos, the riffs are a little on the generic side
-They are doing some cool things as a band in the instrumental sections
-James Labrie sounds bad and there is nothing interesting going on in the vocal melodies (this is just my opinion, and my taste, don't get your panties in a twist if you disagree with this sentiment)
-Myung is mixed in a lot better than he usually is
-Rudess needs some new keyboard patches
I mostly agree with you. I don't think James sounds bad though. I just don't like the vocal melodies for the song. I like when bands like Dream Theater and Megadeth make songs that I have a chance to sing along with in my car because the vocal melodies are memorable and catchy. I could never imagine singing along to this. The guitar parts, bass, and drums have great moments though. I wish the vocal parts were written better though.
There are only 7 songs on the album...I hope that I like the other 6.
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Some initial impressions of the new single.
-They finally let Mangini cut loose
-Petrucci sounds great on the solos, the riffs are a little on the generic side
-They are doing some cool things as a band in the instrumental sections
-James Labrie sounds bad and there is nothing interesting going on in the vocal melodies (this is just my opinion, and my taste, don't get your panties in a twist if you disagree with this sentiment)
-Myung is mixed in a lot better than he usually is
-Rudess needs some new keyboard patches
I mostly agree with you. I don't think James sounds bad though. I just don't like the vocal melodies for the song. I like when bands like Dream Theater and Megadeth make songs that I have a chance to sing along with in my car because the vocal melodies are memorable and catchy. I could never imagine singing along to this. The guitar parts, bass, and drums have great moments though. I wish the vocal parts were written better though.
There are only 7 songs on the album...I hope that I like the other 6.
I don't understand the concept of "They finally let Mangini loose". Does anyone really think they were trying to hold him back all these years? From what Mangini has written about the song, I get the feeling he came up with a drum riff and the rest of the band fell in line. That sounds organic to me.
I feel like there have only been 3 albums where Mangini has been a big part of the writing.
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Man…tough crowd.
Not a mind blowing song but when’s the last time a lead off single of a DT album ever been amazing?
As I mentioned in the other thread, production wise this is the best the band has sounded since Mangini joined the band- that alone makes me excited for the album.
Musically, it beats 80% of DoT.
JLB sounds a bit rough during the first verse - the vocal effects processing is doing him no favors. He sounds good once the chorus kicks in, though. Unfortunately, the chorus and vocal melodies in general are lacking a bit. That’s not JLB’s fault though.
But I give it a solid 7-8 out of 10. Despite some aspects I’m not crazy about- I’m very very excited for the new album.
Not trying to pick on James, but if the old DT rule in still in place, that whoever writes the lyrics also write the vocal melodies, because James wrote the lyrics to The Alien, then, yes, it would be his fault if the vocal melodies are lacking.
And I say "if" because I am still unsure of what I think. Feels like it is a song that could grow on me, so I do not want to dismiss it too quickly, even though so far the vocal melodies do seem lacking.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think that "rule" is still JP's overall preference, but that it has been relaxed quite a bit, and he de facto writes a lot of the vocal melodies because, since he composes a lot of the music itself and sings a bit, he often has a vision of what the vocals should be doing. But I think that, in practice, the practice of writing the vocal melodies often ends up being a bit more collaborate between JP and a given lyricist than in the later MP era. But again, I'm not 100% sure on that.
As far as the song "lacking" vocal melodies, I don't like that description. I think Enigma's post above is pretty good. Parts of the song have strong melodies. Other parts are...amelodic (if that is a word), but seem to be intentionally so. So I think "lacking," while technically correct for some parts, doesn't feel right as a description to me.
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Jordan Rudess - The Alien Listening Party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsz8957rPb4
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About the vocal melodies, what I can say is that after listening to the song about 5-6 times I found myself humming the pre-chorus ("Our holy grail") and the chorus ("Alien, change forever..").
So I don't think I can complain so much about the vocal melodies, although at first they didn't catch my attention.
Obs. But the verses are a bit difficult to hum. Too syncopated maybe?
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-Rudess needs some new keyboard patches
I dunno about new patches but he seemed to use a lot of patches in this song. I heard the nasty pig, piano, synthy stuff, organ (the Deep Purple sound where the name escapes me). Cool stuff!
The Hammond layer was definitely a nice touch, but his solos desperately need a new sound attached them outside of the phased harsh wzzzzzzzzzzzzzz sound that cut through.
For example, currently listening to Viper King, and just got the Hammond solo, which is nice.
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Perhaps I'm not in the right frame of mind, but my first impression is... Meh.
The production is solid, probably the best sounding Mangini era album so far, but musically this didn't do much for me aside from MM's super fast fills and kick bursts. It didn't have a spark that caught my attention.
Hoping for more on the second and third listen...
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Perhaps I'm not in the right frame of mind, but my first impression is... Meh.
The production is solid, probably the best sounding Mangini era album so far, but musically this didn't do much for me aside from MM's super fast fills and kick bursts. It didn't have a spark that caught my attention.
Hoping for more on the second and third listen...
That's why it's better to give it at least two.or three listens before posting. Music has a way of growing on people, especially with DT. A lot to take in, a lot to absorb..
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Perhaps I'm not in the right frame of mind, but my first impression is... Meh.
The production is solid, probably the best sounding Mangini era album so far, but musically this didn't do much for me aside from MM's super fast fills and kick bursts. It didn't have a spark that caught my attention.
Hoping for more on the second and third listen...
That's why it's better to give it at least two.or three listens before posting. Music has a way of growing on people, especially with DT. A lot to take in, a lot to absorb..
Totally. I listened to it twice on the way to work (at 4:30am), once at lunch, and once last night.
It starts to make a lot more sense after a few listens.
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I think it is a solid song, seems like the type of song that could grow on me a little. And Mangini has a good presence here.
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Day 2 impressions:
Repeat listens pay dividends. This is usually the case with complex music.
Sonically, on a good system, this production kicks ass. When JP launches into the main solo with Myung solidly under him, it's musical bliss. Mangini is marvelous on this song and I love the clarity of his ride.
JR, unfortunately, doesn't offer anything new here. Solid but I've grown weary of his sound.
The song is very solid. 8/10. However, I'm still not liking the buzz kill of JP's intro solo amidst the frenetic build up. It's like a Disney grand finale piece barely into the song.
No clue if it will have lasting appeal.
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It also sounds like a heavier side of LTE3 but with vocals, which is fine by me..
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Day 2 impressions:
Repeat listens pay dividends. This is usually the case with complex music.
Sonically, on a good system, this production kicks ass. When JP launches into the main solo with Myung solidly under him, it's musical bliss. Mangini is marvelous on this song and I love the clarity of his ride.
JR, unfortunately, doesn't offer anything new here. Solid but I've grown weary of his sound.
The song is very solid. 8/10. However, I'm still not liking the buzz kill of JP's intro solo amidst the frenetic build up. It's like a Disney grand finale piece barely into the song.
No clue if it will have lasting appeal.
:lol
That's my favorite part, it's not a buzz kill for me. It uplifts the section before and after it, which is reminiscent of ITPOE pt.1 to me.
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Jordan Rudess - The Alien Listening Party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsz8957rPb4
Wait, so I have to pay him to allow him to promote his band’s new song and album.
I get that he wants to do things for those who financially support him through patreon and that’s fine but seems strange to put stuff promoting the new record behind a paywall.
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Jordan Rudess - The Alien Listening Party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsz8957rPb4
Wait, so I have to pay him to allow him to promote his band’s new song and album.
I get that he wants to do things for those who financially support him through patreon and that’s fine but seems strange to put stuff promoting the new record behind a paywall.
:biggrin: :corn
No you are paying for this....
I thought you also would be interested in listening to just the keyboard tracks off the recording so I have that ready to go as well.
I'm also going to post the keyboard transcription here at 11am for those of you in the $10/mo tiers and above.
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I did watch the livestream on Patreon. Someone asked if there was a conscious connection between Pale Blue Dot and The Alien. Jordan’s answer was basically “No. but maybe I should say yes because that makes it more interesting”.
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" DT RIP after Portnoy left :( "
:lolpalm: Sucks to be you.
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Jordan Rudess - The Alien Listening Party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsz8957rPb4
Wait, so I have to pay him to allow him to promote his band’s new song and album.
I get that he wants to do things for those who financially support him through patreon and that’s fine but seems strange to put stuff promoting the new record behind a paywall.
:biggrin: :corn
No you are paying for this....
I thought you also would be interested in listening to just the keyboard tracks off the recording so I have that ready to go as well.
I'm also going to post the keyboard transcription here at 11am for those of you in the $10/mo tiers and above.
No, I totally get that bit where he gives his patreon supporters the isolated keyboard tracks and notation, that makes sense. The Q&A bit though where he’s going to talk and give some insight on the song, that’s promotional material to me and you’d want people to watch that and really get into the song and ideally the album. I find it strange to put that behind a paywall.
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I’ve heard a few people describe this as run of the mill Dream Theater or DT by numbers. Now, I have no problem with people not loving the song and yes there are elements of this that sound like stuff they’ve done before but I don’t think it’s run of the mill by any means. I mean, when was the last time they did such a crazy, technical intense song. You could maybe point to PBD on the last album but even that is not as OTT as this and that, in itself, was unusually technical compared to their recent output.
I’m not necessarily saying super technical shredding is good or bad but this to me is not run of the mill DT, this is DT turned up to maximum velocity. The most prog metal thing they’ve done in a long time. Whether it’s your cup of tea is another matter.
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It's not bad but it sounds like a lot of DT songs you've heard before. Which is to be expected after 36 years and 15 albums.
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Genuinely not asking this to be an asshole but which songs does it sound like? I mean the verses sound very like TCOT but the song as a whole is nothing like that song. Pale Blue Dot is a bit of a spiritual brother to this but I can’t think of too many other DT songs this intense. You’d probably have to go back to Train Of Thought or Systematic Chaos in the mid 2000’s.
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Genuinely not asking this to be an asshole but which songs does it sound like? I mean the verses sound very like TCOT but the song as a whole is nothing like that song. Pale Blue Dot is a bit of a spiritual brother to this but I can’t think of too many other DT songs this intense. You’d probably have to go back to Train Of Thought or Systematic Chaos in the mid 2000’s.
I’ll second this. Feels incredibly fresh to me.
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I think it "sounds like Dream Theater" in the sense that the elements that make up the music are very much in their style. Their style of riffs, solos, singing, rhythms, etc. But I don't think there's a Dream Theater song you can point to and say "it's extremely similar to that song."
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Just put in my first listen tonight, after four yesterday. Listened with the lyrics up in front of me.
The song actually has a pretty basic structure.
This is a great song. That last part by James is outstanding, and the entire outro is great.
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I think it "sounds like Dream Theater" in the sense that the elements that make up the music are very much in their style. Their style of riffs, solos, singing, rhythms, etc. But I don't think there's a Dream Theater song you can point to and say "it's extremely similar to that song."
I do agree that it sounds like Dream Theater in the sense that you mean but I definitely think it’s an unusually fast, intense, technical, energetic song for them. I don’t think it’s the type of song they do all the time to be called run of the mill.
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Jordan Rudess - The Alien Listening Party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsz8957rPb4
Wait, so I have to pay him to allow him to promote his band’s new song and album.
I get that he wants to do things for those who financially support him through patreon and that’s fine but seems strange to put stuff promoting the new record behind a paywall.
Well, MM commented about the song for free on facebook, but people weren't satisfied either. :lol
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As a DT 'lifer', I'm a bit disappointed. Almost like when they released 'Just Let me Breathe' from FII as a lead off single (I think it was, or was it 'Burning My Soul')- bummed out. I really miss the soaring solos and hooks, which ai feel we've been hearing were coming back around for this record.
I wasn't as concerned on the first record that Mike M did with DT, but I don't see the imprint here he has with this band. Technically, it's wicked. Really gnarly, and solid. But as a song, I'm not feeling it. I want to sing along, and I want to burst at the seems when JP lets loose. Here, it falls short.
I will say it's nice to hear John Myung in the mix more, the bass is up front, and that is a plus. But the lyrics, the vocal melodies (or lack thereof), really aren't present.
I don't like to write this, I have a vert personal connection to DT as a band, and even for JP as an influence. But since Systemic Chaos I just haven't been as enthused as I had from prior records. As a guitarist, JP is still my man, and he still has that sizzle, but I'm missing the melodic hooks.
James used to be a pretty good friend o mine, and I'll always remember the great correspondence and visits we used to have - and his solo work has some real chemistry with the music that I'm still not seeing here with these last few albums. It's not quite 'filler', but it's not as memorable as the Awake I&W, Six Degrees, etc. . . that I would love for him to recapture.
Hoping to recapture some of that vintage DT magic for the rest of the album. . .
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I don't get the JP solos has no melodic hooks criticism. I can already sing the outro solo of The Alien from memory. And to date it back to SC? So no melodic hooks in Breaking All Illusions? At Wit's End? Our New World? Barstool Warrior?
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As a DT 'lifer', I'm a bit disappointed. Almost like when they released 'Just Let me Breathe' from FII as a lead off single (I think it was, or was it 'Burning My Soul')- bummed out. I really miss the soaring solos and hooks, which ai feel we've been hearing were coming back around for this record.
I wasn't as concerned on the first record that Mike M did with DT, but I don't see the imprint here he has with this band. Technically, it's wicked. Really gnarly, and solid. But as a song, I'm not feeling it. I want to sing along, and I want to burst at the seems when JP lets loose. Here, it falls short.
I will say it's nice to hear John Myung in the mix more, the bass is up front, and that is a plus. But the lyrics, the vocal melodies (or lack thereof), really aren't present.
I don't like to write this, I have a vert personal connection to DT as a band, and even for JP as an influence. But since Systemic Chaos I just haven't been as enthused as I had from prior records. As a guitarist, JP is still my man, and he still has that sizzle, but I'm missing the melodic hooks.
James used to be a pretty good friend o mine, and I'll always remember the great correspondence and visits we used to have - and his solo work has some real chemistry with the music that I'm still not seeing here with these last few albums. It's not quite 'filler', but it's not as memorable as the Awake I&W, Six Degrees, etc. . . that I would love for him to recapture.
Hoping to recapture some of that vintage DT magic for the rest of the album. . .
I do.
After listening to the new song several times, I confirm even more the first impression that Mike Mangini rocked on this track.
Impressive and very interesting drum line.
People might not like his style, they might prefer MP, but for me it inevitably manages to put some freshness in terms of drum lines.
As a comparison, just listen to the two recent NMB singles. There's absolutely nothing there that MP hasn't done thousands of times (and btw, he repeats a lot of fills between the two songs :lol).
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So I checked this song on Spotify just over 12 hours ago. It only had 4,000+ plays then. Am playing it now and it is now at 133,393 plays. Youtube video is already at 450,191 views. This song is picking up steam!
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It's not bad but it sounds like a lot of DT songs you've heard before. Which is to be expected after 36 years and 15 albums.
So it sounds a lot like Dream Theater? Handy, seeing that it’s a song by…drum roll… Dream Theater… ;D ;D
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Another thought that occurred to me about this:
This is kinda how I expected the band to sound after getting MM in the first place. And there was that album that (I think) JP said contained "Mangini unleashed". Well, THIS sounds like MM unleashed to me and I love it.
I re-listened to D/T this week and it still rocks. Early days on The Alien, but The Alien sounds like it's from the same band as D/T, and both sound like they're from a slightly different band from the one that released all the preceding material, if that makes any sense. Same energy and vibe somehow.
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As a DT 'lifer', I'm a bit disappointed. Almost like when they released 'Just Let me Breathe' from FII as a lead off single (I think it was, or was it 'Burning My Soul')- bummed out. I really miss the soaring solos and hooks, which ai feel we've been hearing were coming back around for this record.
I wasn't as concerned on the first record that Mike M did with DT, but I don't see the imprint here he has with this band. Technically, it's wicked. Really gnarly, and solid. But as a song, I'm not feeling it. I want to sing along, and I want to burst at the seems when JP lets loose. Here, it falls short.
I will say it's nice to hear John Myung in the mix more, the bass is up front, and that is a plus. But the lyrics, the vocal melodies (or lack thereof), really aren't present.
I don't like to write this, I have a vert personal connection to DT as a band, and even for JP as an influence. But since Systemic Chaos I just haven't been as enthused as I had from prior records. As a guitarist, JP is still my man, and he still has that sizzle, but I'm missing the melodic hooks.
James used to be a pretty good friend o mine, and I'll always remember the great correspondence and visits we used to have - and his solo work has some real chemistry with the music that I'm still not seeing here with these last few albums. It's not quite 'filler', but it's not as memorable as the Awake I&W, Six Degrees, etc. . . that I would love for him to recapture.
Hoping to recapture some of that vintage DT magic for the rest of the album. . .
All due respect, because I think it’s obvious how well you articulated your thoughts. But I feel almost opposite. I loved FII from the day I picked it up at the store. But the two tracks you mention are two of the weaker on the album and “the Alien” I feel is a considerably better and far more technically executed song than either. They are “average rockers”, where as the Alien explores some great sounds and interesting vocals and lyrics to sound very “space-like” and create an interesting atmosphere. And I love the solos and hooks - particularly with the more melodic solo towards the start and in the finish almost making it feel like a true mini-epic. But different horses I guess…
I really like James in this track too. The versus are very sing-a-long-able once you hear them a few times and become familiar, and his performance overall doesn’t have the notes of some of the moments in Innocence Faded or Under a Glass Moon, but it doesn’t always need to. It all fits together nicely, has a great crescendo and should be able to be performed well live. So it’s a nice, intelligent range. I’m sure many other tracks will have some more powerful moments.
To me, MM absolutely shines, but this is little surprise. I think he’s fantastic and has been from day dot. This has some monster MM drumming, but so have so many of his tracks, including S2N, Illumination Theory, The Looking Glass, Pale Blue Dot, At Wits End, Enigma Machine and so forth. I think he’s completely comfortable and knows his role in the band. I actually don’t think MP could play all of MM’s parts, but feel MM could play anything from the DT back catalog almost blindfolded. But I’m not a drummer, so I could be wrong. All I know is that I love the sounds from MM’s drumming and “the Alien” is an absolute beast in that department.
In any case, it’s all just opinions. Hope the song grows on you a bit and you do find those wow moments to enjoy with the rest of the album. Peace brother
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As a DT 'lifer', I'm a bit disappointed. Almost like when they released 'Just Let me Breathe' from FII as a lead off single (I think it was, or was it 'Burning My Soul')- bummed out. I really miss the soaring solos and hooks, which ai feel we've been hearing were coming back around for this record.
I wasn't as concerned on the first record that Mike M did with DT, but I don't see the imprint here he has with this band. Technically, it's wicked. Really gnarly, and solid. But as a song, I'm not feeling it. I want to sing along, and I want to burst at the seems when JP lets loose. Here, it falls short.
I will say it's nice to hear John Myung in the mix more, the bass is up front, and that is a plus. But the lyrics, the vocal melodies (or lack thereof), really aren't present.
I don't like to write this, I have a vert personal connection to DT as a band, and even for JP as an influence. But since Systemic Chaos I just haven't been as enthused as I had from prior records. As a guitarist, JP is still my man, and he still has that sizzle, but I'm missing the melodic hooks.
James used to be a pretty good friend o mine, and I'll always remember the great correspondence and visits we used to have - and his solo work has some real chemistry with the music that I'm still not seeing here with these last few albums. It's not quite 'filler', but it's not as memorable as the Awake I&W, Six Degrees, etc. . . that I would love for him to recapture.
Hoping to recapture some of that vintage DT magic for the rest of the album. . .
All due respect, because I think it’s obvious how well you articulated your thoughts. But I feel almost opposite. I loved FII from the day I picked it up at the store. But the two tracks you mention are two of the weaker on the album and “the Alien” I feel is a considerably better and far more technically executed song than either. They are “average rockers”, where as the Alien explores some great sounds and interesting vocals and lyrics to sound very “space-like” and create an interesting atmosphere. And I love the solos and hooks - particularly with the more melodic solo towards the start and in the finish almost making it feel like a true mini-epic. But different horses I guess…
I really like James in this track too. The versus are very sing-a-long-able once you hear them a few times and become familiar, and his performance overall doesn’t have the notes of some of the moments in innocence faded or under a glass moon, but it doesn’t always need to. It all fits together nicely, has a great crescendo and should be able to be performed well live. So it’s a nice, intelligent range. I’m sure many other tracks will have some more powerful moments.
To me, MM absolutely shines, but this is little surprise. I think he’s fantastic and has been from day dot. This has some monster MM drumming, but so have so many of his tracks, including S2N, Illumination theory, the looking glass, pale blue Dot, A Wits End, Enigma Machine and so forth. I think he’s completely comfortable and knows his role in the band. actually don’t think MP could play all of MM’s parts, but feel MM could play anything from the DT back catalog almost blindfolded. But I’m not a drummer, so I could be wrong. All I know is that I love the sounds from MM’s drumming and “the Alien” is an absolute beast in that department.
In any case, it’s all just opinions. Hope the song grows on you a bit and you do find those wow moments to enjoy with the rest of the album. Peace brother
Nah, you're right. Mangini also plays many MP fills using only one hand in the shows. And he has an immense understanding of complex rhythms, while, to my knowledge, Portnoy never went beyond using odd time sigs (and most of the time, with rather simple ideas); Portnoy also uses lots of repetitive fills (RLKK variations), and isn't known for his limbs interdependence.
Not to diminish MP's work (although I don't like anything he plays), but the difference between Mangini and Portnoy, in terms of skill, is worlds apart.
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The way I see it, the band are trying new kinds of themes, structures and melodies while still being identifiable as Dream Theater with this track. They've never been the kind of band that'd completely lose that signature in a new release, even if their shifts had previously pushed them outside of their identified genre every once in a blue moon (with Falling Into Infinity, Octavarium and The Astonishing). Sure, maybe the shifts were arguably more drastic before a certain point (that is, if you're only considering variation in style rather than structure, pacing, mood etc. where I think the album shifts are just as prominent as before), but I still don't think the band are on autopilot in that regard, with The Alien very much considered.
I always wonder what people actually want when I see people complaining that this is the same old DT, especially when considering how unusual this is for a single (which has traditionally been one of the more familiar sounding songs of the album like On the Backs of Angels and Untethered Angel). They could do the whole funk-prog thing and get compared to Lines in the Sand, they could do jazz fusiony stuff (which imo the middle JP solo feels like it has elements of) and get compared to Beyond This Life / Take the Time / Surrender to Reason (depending on where they go with it), they could go all orchestral and symphonic and get compared to The Astonishing, they could do another rap section and get compared to Honor Thy Father / This Dying Soul / Prophets of War or the Canadian rap, streamlined alt-metal as in Paralysed or BMUBMD, they could do understated prog rock and get compared to Repentence and Octavarium, they could do full on pop rock and get compared to I Walk Beside You and You Not Me, excursions into extreme metal territory in A Nightmare to Remember, spacey atmospherics in Pale Blue Dot / Octavarium, spaghetti western style in Fall Into the Light's mid-section, folksy stuff in Solitary Shell and Hymn of a Thousand Voices, electronic music elements in Space Dye Vest / Outcry / BMUBMD, avant garde noise weirdness in the NOMAC tracks and the end of Misunderstood, upbeat prog in Surrender to Reason / Barstool Warrior, Deep Purple style hard rock in Viper King, musical theater stuff yet again all over The Astonishing and Scenes... hell, reggae would probably be referenced back to LTE's Ya Mon and Universal Mind.
Sure, there's room to go deeper into some of these but still, I don't think there's really enough of an appreciation sometimes for just how wide the DT stylistic palette can be, with this song included. You got a lot of harmonically off-kilter elements, the aforementioned fusiony middle solo, MM doing that quirky stick rhythm (also worth noting that his performance here is pretty unprecedented overall), that uplifting, double-time solo towards the end, that orchestral, cinematic ending that blends in with elements of that opening riff, the unusual melodic style, a lot of fresh, varied stuff imo, even if not all of it is entirely new in some form. That's just what happens when you get a band that's already done a fair amount of musical exploration. I'm not sure where else they can go without sounding like they're putting novelty over songwriting or doing BtBaM esque weirdness (and even their last few tracks don't seem like they have anything entirely new for them) (EDIT: nevermind, those tracks definitely have unique elements), which has never really been what the band were about.
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After my initial, “this is the least I’ve ever enjoyed a DT song on first listen” instant reaction (which I did caveat by saying it could change in time), I’m now at the point where I really like this a lot so am going to have to try to stop myself from listening to it to death. I much prefer this to any of the singles from the last release. It’s definitely increased my excitement for the album. Can’t wait to hear more.
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It's not bad but it sounds like a lot of DT songs you've heard before. Which is to be expected after 36 years and 15 albums.
So it sounds a lot like Dream Theater? Handy, seeing that it’s a song by…drum roll… Dream Theater… ;D ;D
The verses Definitely remind me of The Count of Tuscany. And no I wasn't expecting Polka Jazz. . . .
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Love the artwork for the single by the way. I know it wouldn’t work as the album cover as it doesn’t fit the album title but I think it’s nicer than the actual album cover.
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The way I see it, the band are trying new kinds of themes, structures and melodies while still being identifiable as Dream Theater with this track. They've never been the kind of band that'd completely lose that signature in a new release, even if their shifts had previously pushed them outside of their identified genre every once in a blue moon (with Falling Into Infinity, Octavarium and The Astonishing). Sure, maybe the shifts were arguably more drastic before a certain point (that is, if you're only considering variation in style rather than structure, pacing, mood etc. where I think the album shifts are just as prominent as before), but I still don't think the band are on autopilot in that regard, with The Alien very much considered.
I always wonder what people actually want when I see people complaining that this is the same old DT, especially when considering how unusual this is for a single (which has traditionally been one of the more familiar sounding songs of the album like On the Backs of Angels and Untethered Angel). They could do the whole funk-prog thing and get compared to Lines in the Sand, they could do jazz fusiony stuff (which imo the middle JP solo feels like it has elements of) and get compared to Beyond This Life / Take the Time / Surrender to Reason (depending on where they go with it), they could go all orchestral and symphonic and get compared to The Astonishing, they could do another rap section and get compared to Honor Thy Father / This Dying Soul / Prophets of War or the Canadian rap, streamlined alt-metal as in Paralysed or BMUBMD, they could do understated prog rock and get compared to Repentence and Octavarium, they could do full on pop rock and get compared to I Walk Beside You and You Not Me, excursions into extreme metal territory in A Nightmare to Remember, spacey atmospherics in Pale Blue Dot / Octavarium, spaghetti western style in Fall Into the Light's mid-section, folksy stuff in Solitary Shell and Hymn of a Thousand Voices, electronic music elements in Space Dye Vest / Outcry / BMUBMD, avant garde noise weirdness in the NOMAC tracks and the end of Misunderstood, upbeat prog in Surrender to Reason / Barstool Warrior, Deep Purple style hard rock in Viper King, musical theater stuff yet again all over The Astonishing and Scenes... hell, reggae would probably be referenced back to LTE's Ya Mon and Universal Mind.
Sure, there's room to go deeper into some of these but still, I don't think there's really enough of an appreciation sometimes for just how wide the DT stylistic palette can be, with this song included. You got a lot of harmonically off-kilter elements, the aforementioned fusiony middle solo, MM doing that quirky stick rhythm (also worth noting that his performance here is pretty unprecedented overall), that uplifting, double-time solo towards the end, that orchestral, cinematic ending that blends in with elements of that opening riff, the unusual melodic style, a lot of fresh, varied stuff imo, even if not all of it is entirely new in some form. That's just what happens when you get a band that's already done a fair amount of musical exploration. I'm not sure where else they can go without sounding like they're putting novelty over songwriting or doing BtBaM esque weirdness (and even their last few tracks don't seem like they have anything entirely new for them), which has never really been what the band were about.
EMachine, I like this post. It's like the saying, sometimes you can't see the forest through the trees. Sure what they do from time to time may not always appeal to everyone, and that's OK. 15 albums..there's plenty to choose from.
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Alright so after about 10 listens or so (I came on the radio twice as I was driving!) I'm ready to put it down and wait for the album.
Final thoughts, I like the song a lot, it's powerful, has energy, it takes you to unexpected places. It's a great track. Surprisingly, the weakest part of me is the guitar solo at the instrumental section in the middle. I like the solo, just don't think it's that great.
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Wow, really? I looooove that solo, really soulful and gorgeous. Different strokes I suppose.
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Alright so after about 10 listens or so (I came on the radio twice as I was driving!) I'm ready to put it down and wait for the album.
Final thoughts, I like the song a lot, it's powerful, has energy, it takes you to unexpected places. It's a great track. Surprisingly, the weakest part of me is the guitar solo at the instrumental section in the middle. I like the solo, just don't think it's that great.
Hope the radio is ok!
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(I came on the radio twice as I was driving!) I'm ready to put it down .
:zydar: :zydarscouch:
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Alright so after about 10 listens or so (I came on the radio twice as I was driving!) I'm ready to put it down and wait for the album.
Final thoughts, I like the song a lot, it's powerful, has energy, it takes you to unexpected places. It's a great track. Surprisingly, the weakest part of me is the guitar solo at the instrumental section in the middle. I like the solo, just don't think it's that great.
Hope the radio is ok!
:rollin
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:lol
Where the hell do you live where they play a 9 minute DT song on the radio?
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:lol
Where the hell do you live where they play a 9 minute DT song on the radio?
I heard it on the Liquid Metal Sirius station. The Devils Dozen. The Alien was number 10.
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Love the artwork for the single by the way. I know it wouldn’t work as the album cover as it doesn’t fit the album title but I think it’s nicer than the actual album cover.
Not to drag Hugh again but I find his in booklet art better than the covers.
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Usually bands release as first single the most "accessible" song, so if this is the tip of the iceberg... I think it's gonna be a feast ;)
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Usually bands release as first single the most "accessible" song, so if this is the tip of the iceberg... I think it's gonna be a feast ;)
:metal
I certainly hope so!!
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Love it. It sounds like DT but it sounds fresh, creative and inspired. I felt the same way about The Gift of Music.
My order of preference for Mangini era lead "singles":
The Alien
The Gift of Music
The Enemy Inside
On the Backs of Angels
Untethered Angel
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Love it. It sounds like DT but it sounds fresh, creative and inspired. I felt the same way about The Gift of Music.
My order of preference for Mangini era lead "singles":
The Alien
The Gift of Music
The Enemy Inside
On the Backs of Angels
Untethered Angel
I agree with all of this.
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The second half is not as good as the first imo.
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As a DT 'lifer', I'm a bit disappointed. Almost like when they released 'Just Let me Breathe' from FII as a lead off single (I think it was, or was it 'Burning My Soul')- bummed out. I really miss the soaring solos and hooks, which ai feel we've been hearing were coming back around for this record.
I wasn't as concerned on the first record that Mike M did with DT, but I don't see the imprint here he has with this band. Technically, it's wicked. Really gnarly, and solid. But as a song, I'm not feeling it. I want to sing along, and I want to burst at the seems when JP lets loose. Here, it falls short.
I will say it's nice to hear John Myung in the mix more, the bass is up front, and that is a plus. But the lyrics, the vocal melodies (or lack thereof), really aren't present.
I don't like to write this, I have a vert personal connection to DT as a band, and even for JP as an influence. But since Systemic Chaos I just haven't been as enthused as I had from prior records. As a guitarist, JP is still my man, and he still has that sizzle, but I'm missing the melodic hooks.
James used to be a pretty good friend o mine, and I'll always remember the great correspondence and visits we used to have - and his solo work has some real chemistry with the music that I'm still not seeing here with these last few albums. It's not quite 'filler', but it's not as memorable as the Awake I&W, Six Degrees, etc. . . that I would love for him to recapture.
Hoping to recapture some of that vintage DT magic for the rest of the album. . .
All due respect, because I think it’s obvious how well you articulated your thoughts. But I feel almost opposite. I loved FII from the day I picked it up at the store. But the two tracks you mention are two of the weaker on the album and “the Alien” I feel is a considerably better and far more technically executed song than either. They are “average rockers”, where as the Alien explores some great sounds and interesting vocals and lyrics to sound very “space-like” and create an interesting atmosphere. And I love the solos and hooks - particularly with the more melodic solo towards the start and in the finish almost making it feel like a true mini-epic. But different horses I guess…
I really like James in this track too. The versus are very sing-a-long-able once you hear them a few times and become familiar, and his performance overall doesn’t have the notes of some of the moments in Innocence Faded or Under a Glass Moon, but it doesn’t always need to. It all fits together nicely, has a great crescendo and should be able to be performed well live. So it’s a nice, intelligent range. I’m sure many other tracks will have some more powerful moments.
To me, MM absolutely shines, but this is little surprise. I think he’s fantastic and has been from day dot. This has some monster MM drumming, but so have so many of his tracks, including S2N, Illumination Theory, The Looking Glass, Pale Blue Dot, At Wits End, Enigma Machine and so forth. I think he’s completely comfortable and knows his role in the band. I actually don’t think MP could play all of MM’s parts, but feel MM could play anything from the DT back catalog almost blindfolded. But I’m not a drummer, so I could be wrong. All I know is that I love the sounds from MM’s drumming and “the Alien” is an absolute beast in that department.
In any case, it’s all just opinions. Hope the song grows on you a bit and you do find those wow moments to enjoy with the rest of the album. Peace brother
I have been dissecting a bit more, and after a few more listens, it is slowly growing on me. And for the record, I am a Mike Mangini fan. And his rhythmic choices on this track are really good. The recording of the drums just doesn't have as much 'thump' as I'd like. And not to inject Portnoy into here, but the drums on 6:00 were banging. Just really hit you in the teeth.
When Portnoy left, I honestly didn't feel 'awful'. I was excited about the prospect of someone else coming in that didn't have as much of a lightning rod around them. But the more I thought about it, I kind of think the disagreements between MP, JP, and even JLB contributed to some killer songs. AT this point, it feels like JP and JR have kind of steered the ship a bit more, and there is a bit more benevolence in the songwriting - except for 'The Astonishing'. And right or wrong, it's had an effect.
The last album was the best BY FAR of the MM era, so when the guys started banging the drum about 'how amazing' this new record will be, I went into it expecting aged Kobe steak - and a after a first listen I feel I got the Outback Special. Not terrible, pretty tasty, but the flavors just don't pop.
I'm still letting it digest, ands cautiously optimistic about the rest of the album.
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The way I see it, the band are trying new kinds of themes, structures and melodies while still being identifiable as Dream Theater with this track. They've never been the kind of band that'd completely lose that signature in a new release, even if their shifts had previously pushed them outside of their identified genre every once in a blue moon (with Falling Into Infinity, Octavarium and The Astonishing). Sure, maybe the shifts were arguably more drastic before a certain point (that is, if you're only considering variation in style rather than structure, pacing, mood etc. where I think the album shifts are just as prominent as before), but I still don't think the band are on autopilot in that regard, with The Alien very much considered.
I always wonder what people actually want when I see people complaining that this is the same old DT, especially when considering how unusual this is for a single (which has traditionally been one of the more familiar sounding songs of the album like On the Backs of Angels and Untethered Angel). They could do the whole funk-prog thing and get compared to Lines in the Sand, they could do jazz fusiony stuff (which imo the middle JP solo feels like it has elements of) and get compared to Beyond This Life / Take the Time / Surrender to Reason (depending on where they go with it), they could go all orchestral and symphonic and get compared to The Astonishing, they could do another rap section and get compared to Honor Thy Father / This Dying Soul / Prophets of War or the Canadian rap, streamlined alt-metal as in Paralysed or BMUBMD, they could do understated prog rock and get compared to Repentence and Octavarium, they could do full on pop rock and get compared to I Walk Beside You and You Not Me, excursions into extreme metal territory in A Nightmare to Remember, spacey atmospherics in Pale Blue Dot / Octavarium, spaghetti western style in Fall Into the Light's mid-section, folksy stuff in Solitary Shell and Hymn of a Thousand Voices, electronic music elements in Space Dye Vest / Outcry / BMUBMD, avant garde noise weirdness in the NOMAC tracks and the end of Misunderstood, upbeat prog in Surrender to Reason / Barstool Warrior, Deep Purple style hard rock in Viper King, musical theater stuff yet again all over The Astonishing and Scenes... hell, reggae would probably be referenced back to LTE's Ya Mon and Universal Mind.
Sure, there's room to go deeper into some of these but still, I don't think there's really enough of an appreciation sometimes for just how wide the DT stylistic palette can be, with this song included. You got a lot of harmonically off-kilter elements, the aforementioned fusiony middle solo, MM doing that quirky stick rhythm (also worth noting that his performance here is pretty unprecedented overall), that uplifting, double-time solo towards the end, that orchestral, cinematic ending that blends in with elements of that opening riff, the unusual melodic style, a lot of fresh, varied stuff imo, even if not all of it is entirely new in some form. That's just what happens when you get a band that's already done a fair amount of musical exploration. I'm not sure where else they can go without sounding like they're putting novelty over songwriting or doing BtBaM esque weirdness (and even their last few tracks don't seem like they have anything entirely new for them), which has never really been what the band were about.
This is a really good post.
One point you I think you made in there that I'd like to highlight in somewhat different terms is this: The more albums a band has, the harder it is for them to do something surprising, especially if they don't totally discard their core sound (a la Opeth's Heritage). I wasn't around for the earlier DT albums, but it stands to reason that people would have frequently found new things they did surprising, different, fresh, new for them. Awake sounds way different from WDADU and IAW, a lot of FII sounds different from those three, SDOIT sounds pretty different from the previous five... But by now they have 14 albums with all the variations that Enigmachine names. There's just not as much room for them to vary their core sound in a way that makes you feel like you've not heard them do anything like it before. I don't think that's a bad thing—for me, it's always primarily about whether the music is good—it's just something to keep in mind.
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:lol
Where the hell do you live where they play a 9 minute DT song on the radio?
I heard it on the Liquid Metal Sirius station. The Devils Dozen. The Alien was number 10.
Ah I wasn't even thinking about Sirius...I thought it was just normal ass radio. Last time I heart DT on normal radio was about 10 years ago in Hawaii on a college station.
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When Portnoy left I didn't feel awful.
I clearly remember waking up on the morning of 2009 and reading a text from a friend saying he had quit and I just thought that was funny. And at the time he was my favourite
member of the band. I almost got his drumming DVD course.
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When Portnoy left I didn't feel awful.
I clearly remember waking up on the morning of 2009 and reading a text from a friend saying he had quit and I just thought that was funny. And at the time he was my favourite
member of the band. I almost got his drumming DVD course.
Then your friend is a prophet, because he didn’t quit until 2010.
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I couldnt remember the exact date. I knew it was definitely after 2008 as I was in my new house in 2009 and I moved out 2012. :)
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Usually bands release as first single the most "accessible" song, so if this is the tip of the iceberg... I think it's gonna be a feast ;)
I do want to caution people against assuming this. Historically this has been the case, but in recent years I think some prog and metal bands have moved away from this. Presumably the rationale for doing this in the past has been to put forward the song most likely to get mainstream attention, but I think there's starting to be a realization somewhere in the world of prog/metal bands and labels that this is vanishingly unlikely to happen and it's instead a better idea to put forward something that's going to excite your core audience and attract people who are on the fringes of your audience.
See, for example, Avantasia releasing The Raven Child, the longest song on the album at 11 minutes, as the lead single for Moonglow. One of the least accessible songs on the album, but a perfect choice to get Avantasia fans excited, bring in Blind Guardian fans due to Hansi Kursch's prominent guest spot, and potentially appeal to prog metal fans.
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The problem with Avantasia releasing Raven Child in advance was that the rest of the album couldn’t live up to it :lol
It’s not a bad album, but it’s a case where I felt like the marketing for the album ruined my enjoyment of it by giving me the dessert before the entrèe. None of DTs singles have done that for me, on their own. But having the first three tracks of D/T out as singles prerelease was a bit much. Speaks more to my lack of restraint, so I’m trying not to over-listen to The Alien.
But yes I agree it is smart for bands in the progsphere to market toward their audience first
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It’s funny that most bands release their best songs as singles. You can’t imagine Bon Jovi for example saying “don’t release Livin On A Prayer, keep the best stuff back for the album”.
With prog bands though it is like the opposite where they treat the single as almost like a teaser for the album but keep the best stuff hidden until the album comes out. I’m totally ok with it too, I’d be disappointed if all the best stuff on a DT album got released as singles first.
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Decomposer Reaction video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNpHV-16AuI
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:lol The one person who's reaction I could not give a sh¡t about is CoverKillerNation ? Is he still a thing ? One of the most irritating YouTubers ever.
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I like DeuceReacts the best. He has Dream Theater Saturdays.
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The way I see it, the band are trying new kinds of themes, structures and melodies while still being identifiable as Dream Theater with this track. They've never been the kind of band that'd completely lose that signature in a new release, even if their shifts had previously pushed them outside of their identified genre every once in a blue moon (with Falling Into Infinity, Octavarium and The Astonishing). Sure, maybe the shifts were arguably more drastic before a certain point (that is, if you're only considering variation in style rather than structure, pacing, mood etc. where I think the album shifts are just as prominent as before), but I still don't think the band are on autopilot in that regard, with The Alien very much considered.
I always wonder what people actually want when I see people complaining that this is the same old DT, especially when considering how unusual this is for a single (which has traditionally been one of the more familiar sounding songs of the album like On the Backs of Angels and Untethered Angel). They could do the whole funk-prog thing and get compared to Lines in the Sand, they could do jazz fusiony stuff (which imo the middle JP solo feels like it has elements of) and get compared to Beyond This Life / Take the Time / Surrender to Reason (depending on where they go with it), they could go all orchestral and symphonic and get compared to The Astonishing, they could do another rap section and get compared to Honor Thy Father / This Dying Soul / Prophets of War or the Canadian rap, streamlined alt-metal as in Paralysed or BMUBMD, they could do understated prog rock and get compared to Repentence and Octavarium, they could do full on pop rock and get compared to I Walk Beside You and You Not Me, excursions into extreme metal territory in A Nightmare to Remember, spacey atmospherics in Pale Blue Dot / Octavarium, spaghetti western style in Fall Into the Light's mid-section, folksy stuff in Solitary Shell and Hymn of a Thousand Voices, electronic music elements in Space Dye Vest / Outcry / BMUBMD, avant garde noise weirdness in the NOMAC tracks and the end of Misunderstood, upbeat prog in Surrender to Reason / Barstool Warrior, Deep Purple style hard rock in Viper King, musical theater stuff yet again all over The Astonishing and Scenes... hell, reggae would probably be referenced back to LTE's Ya Mon and Universal Mind.
Sure, there's room to go deeper into some of these but still, I don't think there's really enough of an appreciation sometimes for just how wide the DT stylistic palette can be, with this song included. You got a lot of harmonically off-kilter elements, the aforementioned fusiony middle solo, MM doing that quirky stick rhythm (also worth noting that his performance here is pretty unprecedented overall), that uplifting, double-time solo towards the end, that orchestral, cinematic ending that blends in with elements of that opening riff, the unusual melodic style, a lot of fresh, varied stuff imo, even if not all of it is entirely new in some form. That's just what happens when you get a band that's already done a fair amount of musical exploration. I'm not sure where else they can go without sounding like they're putting novelty over songwriting or doing BtBaM esque weirdness (and even their last few tracks don't seem like they have anything entirely new for them), which has never really been what the band were about.
Very interesting post. Lots to read and think about. :tup
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[...]
Sure, there's room to go deeper into some of these but still, I don't think there's really enough of an appreciation sometimes for just how wide the DT stylistic palette can be, with this song included. You got a lot of harmonically off-kilter elements, the aforementioned fusiony middle solo, MM doing that quirky stick rhythm (also worth noting that his performance here is pretty unprecedented overall), that uplifting, double-time solo towards the end, that orchestral, cinematic ending that blends in with elements of that opening riff, the unusual melodic style, a lot of fresh, varied stuff imo, even if not all of it is entirely new in some form. That's just what happens when you get a band that's already done a fair amount of musical exploration. I'm not sure where else they can go without sounding like they're putting novelty over songwriting or doing BtBaM esque weirdness (and even their last few tracks don't seem like they have anything entirely new for them), which has never really been what the band were about.
I agree with your overall comment, but I disagree about the BTBAM part. Revolution In Limbo has a 'Bossa Nova' section, and detuned acoustic guitars added to the layers, which are things that BTBAM haven't done in the past. And Fix The Error is a fairly simple Punk-y song with a drum breakdown with 4 drummers playing solos, both new things in their discography.
And judging by some interviews, there's more uncharted territory by the band in Colors II.
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Watching the music video for The Alien and paying attention to it gave me a lot of appreciation for the song. It's way more cohesive and story-driven than I imagined.
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(I It (the song (The alien)) came played on the radio twice as I was driving!) I'm ready to put it down .
:zydar: :zydarscouch:
For the record, I did not ejaculate on my radio, nor have I ever though of it, nor plan to do it in the future :lol
:lol
Where the hell do you live where they play a 9 minute DT song on the radio?
I heard it on the Liquid Metal Sirius station. The Devils Dozen. The Alien was number 10.
Ah I wasn't even thinking about Sirius...I thought it was just normal ass radio. Last time I heart DT on normal radio was about 10 years ago in Hawaii on a college station.
Yes, I have a (free) subscription to Sirius. My go to stations are Liquid Metal and Octane. The Alien played on Liquid Metal. The only rock station from local radio is 104.3, which they only play classic rock with the occasional Metallica song (Fade to Black or Enter Sandman).
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There is already a drum cover in Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1gSDo45Duk
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After listening to this song about a dozen times over the weekend, I've determined I really like the last 6 minutes or so.
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I agree with your overall comment, but I disagree about the BTBAM part. Revolution In Limbo has a 'Bossa Nova' section, and detuned acoustic guitars added to the layers, which are things that BTBAM haven't done in the past. And Fix The Error is a fairly simple Punk-y song with a drum breakdown with 4 drummers playing solos, both new things in their discography.
And judging by some interviews, there's more uncharted territory by the band in Colors II.
That's fair, I did admittedly forget that those songs offered those things. Makes sense as an analogy too, because while those two songs are both identifiable as the band quite clearly, there are new elements integrated in there, which I would also claim about The Alien (albiet maybe more in the margins which, to be fair, should be expected from a band with considerably more material). Changed the original post to reflect that a bit better.
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After listening to this song about a dozen times over the weekend, I've determined I really like the last 6 minutes or so.
If I remember correctly, you were kind of "meh" on the song. Just curious what turned those last six minutes around for you? (Apologies if I am incorrect about your initial reaction to The Alien).
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After listening to this song about a dozen times over the weekend, I've determined I really like the last 6 minutes or so.
If I remember correctly, you were kind of "meh" on the song. Just curious what turned those last six minutes around for you? (Apologies if I am incorrect about your initial reaction to The Alien).
Correct. It's hard to say. I do like how the song closes, but I still maintain that it's too chaotic at the start. I think upon initial listen, that opening bit tainted the rest of the track.
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The way I see it, the band are trying new kinds of themes, structures and melodies while still being identifiable as Dream Theater with this track. They've never been the kind of band that'd completely lose that signature in a new release, even if their shifts had previously pushed them outside of their identified genre every once in a blue moon (with Falling Into Infinity, Octavarium and The Astonishing). Sure, maybe the shifts were arguably more drastic before a certain point (that is, if you're only considering variation in style rather than structure, pacing, mood etc. where I think the album shifts are just as prominent as before), but I still don't think the band are on autopilot in that regard, with The Alien very much considered.
I always wonder what people actually want when I see people complaining that this is the same old DT, especially when considering how unusual this is for a single (which has traditionally been one of the more familiar sounding songs of the album like On the Backs of Angels and Untethered Angel). They could do the whole funk-prog thing and get compared to Lines in the Sand, they could do jazz fusiony stuff (which imo the middle JP solo feels like it has elements of) and get compared to Beyond This Life / Take the Time / Surrender to Reason (depending on where they go with it), they could go all orchestral and symphonic and get compared to The Astonishing, they could do another rap section and get compared to Honor Thy Father / This Dying Soul / Prophets of War or the Canadian rap, streamlined alt-metal as in Paralysed or BMUBMD, they could do understated prog rock and get compared to Repentence and Octavarium, they could do full on pop rock and get compared to I Walk Beside You and You Not Me, excursions into extreme metal territory in A Nightmare to Remember, spacey atmospherics in Pale Blue Dot / Octavarium, spaghetti western style in Fall Into the Light's mid-section, folksy stuff in Solitary Shell and Hymn of a Thousand Voices, electronic music elements in Space Dye Vest / Outcry / BMUBMD, avant garde noise weirdness in the NOMAC tracks and the end of Misunderstood, upbeat prog in Surrender to Reason / Barstool Warrior, Deep Purple style hard rock in Viper King, musical theater stuff yet again all over The Astonishing and Scenes... hell, reggae would probably be referenced back to LTE's Ya Mon and Universal Mind.
Sure, there's room to go deeper into some of these but still, I don't think there's really enough of an appreciation sometimes for just how wide the DT stylistic palette can be, with this song included. You got a lot of harmonically off-kilter elements, the aforementioned fusiony middle solo, MM doing that quirky stick rhythm (also worth noting that his performance here is pretty unprecedented overall), that uplifting, double-time solo towards the end, that orchestral, cinematic ending that blends in with elements of that opening riff, the unusual melodic style, a lot of fresh, varied stuff imo, even if not all of it is entirely new in some form. That's just what happens when you get a band that's already done a fair amount of musical exploration. I'm not sure where else they can go without sounding like they're putting novelty over songwriting or doing BtBaM esque weirdness (and even their last few tracks don't seem like they have anything entirely new for them), which has never really been what the band were about.
Good stuff here.
After my first listen, I thought it was pretty weird.
After multiple listens, I think it's really interesting. The mix is fantastic, the drums and bass are extremely clear.
For me, the MVP of the track is Mangini by far. Simply MONSTROUS.
JM's parts are really cool, also.
I love that they chose to start the song with a drum fill, because MM definitely drives this song like a madman.
I mean, there's a lot going on. I love that they had the balls to put out a 9+minute song as the lead single. "This is who we are."
Because, I mean, it IS who they are.
Two thumbs up.
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So I finally got to listen to this a second time. First time was with headphones and my feelings were very conflicting: the good - it was all over the map. the bad - it was all over the map. the good - a lot of interesting vocal phrasing. the bad - odd vocal phrasing
A few days later I had the opportunity to sit down in front of my sound system while watching the video on my tv.
It clicked.
In some ways I feel like this is an LTE song with vocals. I was always less enthusiastic about the prog parts of DT and this seems like that side on overdrive but I dig it because it is a step beyond what they've done before.
I really dig the lyrics and the video drives home the story behind it. LaBrie's vocals don't stand out but that goes along with my thought about this song working well as an instrumental song and I consider the vocals a bonus. A few cool things LaBrie did though, so even the vocals are a steph beyond what we're used to from him.
Speaking of the video, does anybody know if these are clips taken from somewhere or is it all original?
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So I finally got to listen to this a second time. First time was with headphones and my feelings were very conflicting: the good - it was all over the map. the bad - it was all over the map. the good - a lot of interesting vocal phrasing. the bad - odd vocal phrasing
A few days later I had the opportunity to sit down in front of my sound system while watching the video on my tv.
It clicked.
In some ways I feel like this is an LTE song with vocals. I was always less enthusiastic about the prog parts of DT and this seems like that side on overdrive but I dig it because it is a step beyond what they've done before.
I really dig the lyrics and the video drives home the story behind it. LaBrie's vocals don't stand out but that goes along with my thought about this song working well as an instrumental song and I consider the vocals a bonus. A few cool things LaBrie did though, so even the vocals are a steph beyond what we're used to from him.
Speaking of the video, does anybody know if these are clips taken from somewhere or is it all original?
I'm curious about this as well.
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It’s funny that most bands release their best songs as singles. You can’t imagine Bon Jovi for example saying “don’t release Livin On A Prayer, keep the best stuff back for the album”.
Bon Jovi almost didn't include "Livin' on a Prayer" on the album at all!
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It’s funny that most bands release their best songs as singles. You can’t imagine Bon Jovi for example saying “don’t release Livin On A Prayer, keep the best stuff back for the album”.
Bon Jovi almost didn't include "Livin' on a Prayer" on the album at all!
You guys might get a kick out of this article.
https://www.ranker.com/list/hit-songs-almost-left-off-album/kelly-patrick
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Speaking of the video, does anybody know if these are clips taken from somewhere or is it all original?
[/quote]
I think I have seen those Aliens in a coheed and cambria video
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So after two listens I think The Alien is pretty kick ass! The only thing I'm not totally digging is JR lead sounds/patches - just don't care for them. Everything else sounds great and yes, Mangini is the MVP. I wonder if he was motivated to kick it up a notch after MP recorded TV and LTE3?
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My only complaint about the song is Jordan’s solo, it’s a bit samey. I love the rest of the song.
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I’m really enjoying The Alien… kind of reminds me of the post SFAM portnoy era but with much better production. The vocal melodies aren’t amazing but the outro melody is great, the energy is high and the petrucci lead is beautiful.
This song has me very optimistic for the album.
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I approve. There aren't a ton of hooks, which I usually appreciate, but the twisting, winding, complex rhythms and the guitar melodies/solos are spectacular, and this song is about the turbulence and unpredictability of traveling through space, so it's more a mood/feel song than a sing-along. The vocal melodies leave something to be desired--DT overuses the diminished scale to the point that it's boring now.
Jordan's solos are more of the same, but then again, Jordan has always been my third-favorite DT keyboardist. My favorite Rudess solos are all the simpler, more melodic ones, especially when he's on the Moog. Not every solo has to set the record for number of half-diminished arpeggios in as short of a timeframe as possible, mixed with a section of atonal wailing on the i-Pad continuum. There are a few short clips where he's using some new sounds though, which are cool.
The highlight of the song is that this is absolutely the best Mangini has sounded with the band to date, both tonally in the mix, and musically. They are really flowing together here, and there's a ton of cool fills that drive the melody instead of just accompanying it, especially in the slow sections. The percussion part is also fantastic. And the opening fill is frickin' awesome. There's no way Portnoy could have wrote the drum track for this song. I don't hate Portnoy, of course, but Mangini is and always has been technically superior. This is the first song where I think he's smoothed the edges of his technical prowess to really musically gel with the band.
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So I am playing the song right now then I heard my 8-year old humming the JP outro solo while he's drawing Pokemon. This daddy's heart is filled with joy. :lol
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So I am playing the song right now then I heard my 8-year old humming the JP outro solo while he's drawing Pokemon. This daddy's heart is filled with joy. :lol
Parenting goals :tup
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So I am playing the song right now then I heard my 8-year old humming the JP outro solo while he's drawing Pokemon. This daddy's heart is filled with joy. :lol
Man, now that is awesome! :hefdaddy :metal
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So I am playing the song right now then I heard my 8-year old humming the JP outro solo while he's drawing Pokemon. This daddy's heart is filled with joy. :lol
Nice. :biggrin:
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It’s funny that most bands release their best songs as singles. You can’t imagine Bon Jovi for example saying “don’t release Livin On A Prayer, keep the best stuff back for the album”.
Bon Jovi almost didn't include "Livin' on a Prayer" on the album at all!
You guys might get a kick out of this article.
https://www.ranker.com/list/hit-songs-almost-left-off-album/kelly-patrick
Shit Billie Jean! I don't think it's an overstatement to say that would have been a history changing moment :omg:
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Song clicked with me last night when I sat down and learned it on guitar. Man is it good fun to play!
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So I am playing the song right now then I heard my 8-year old humming the JP outro solo while he's drawing Pokemon. This daddy's heart is filled with joy. :lol
Parenting goals :tup
Indeed! :metal
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It’s funny that most bands release their best songs as singles. You can’t imagine Bon Jovi for example saying “don’t release Livin On A Prayer, keep the best stuff back for the album”.
Bon Jovi almost didn't include "Livin' on a Prayer" on the album at all!
You guys might get a kick out of this article.
https://www.ranker.com/list/hit-songs-almost-left-off-album/kelly-patrick
So the Queen movie wasn't accurate?!? Horror! :) :) :)
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It’s funny that most bands release their best songs as singles. You can’t imagine Bon Jovi for example saying “don’t release Livin On A Prayer, keep the best stuff back for the album”.
Bon Jovi almost didn't include "Livin' on a Prayer" on the album at all!
You guys might get a kick out of this article.
https://www.ranker.com/list/hit-songs-almost-left-off-album/kelly-patrick
Shit Billie Jean! I don't think it's an overstatement to say that would have been a history changing moment :omg:
Smells Like Teen Spirit even more so. MJ was already a star before Billie Jean. But would grunge have gone mainstream and changed rock in the 90s without Smells Like Teen Spirit?
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Gave the song a couple days rest, then played it again this morning. Still love it musically and still only lukewarm vocally.
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It’s funny that most bands release their best songs as singles. You can’t imagine Bon Jovi for example saying “don’t release Livin On A Prayer, keep the best stuff back for the album”.
Bon Jovi almost didn't include "Livin' on a Prayer" on the album at all!
I know they tell that story but I think it’s total BS.
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It’s funny that most bands release their best songs as singles. You can’t imagine Bon Jovi for example saying “don’t release Livin On A Prayer, keep the best stuff back for the album”.
Bon Jovi almost didn't include "Livin' on a Prayer" on the album at all!
You guys might get a kick out of this article.
https://www.ranker.com/list/hit-songs-almost-left-off-album/kelly-patrick
So the Queen movie wasn't accurate?!? Horror! :) :) :)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoMuHIeWkAQbP56?format=jpg&name=small)
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So I am playing the song right now then I heard my 8-year old humming the JP outro solo while he's drawing Pokemon. This daddy's heart is filled with joy. :lol
I don't believe you. We already established several pages ago that the song lacks melody and hooks.
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So I am playing the song right now then I heard my 8-year old humming the JP outro solo while he's drawing Pokemon. This daddy's heart is filled with joy. :lol
I don't believe you. We already established several pages ago that the song lacks melody and hooks.
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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It’s funny that most bands release their best songs as singles. You can’t imagine Bon Jovi for example saying “don’t release Livin On A Prayer, keep the best stuff back for the album”.
Bon Jovi almost didn't include "Livin' on a Prayer" on the album at all!
You guys might get a kick out of this article.
https://www.ranker.com/list/hit-songs-almost-left-off-album/kelly-patrick (https://www.ranker.com/list/hit-songs-almost-left-off-album/kelly-patrick)
Shit Billie Jean! I don't think it's an overstatement to say that would have been a history changing moment :omg:
Smells Like Teen Spirit even more so. MJ was already a star before Billie Jean. But would grunge have gone mainstream and changed rock in the 90s without Smells Like Teen Spirit?
Pearl Jam and Soundgarden were making waves at the same time, so I'm not sure dropping Nirvana out of the mix would kill the trend.
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Usually bands release as first single the most "accessible" song, so if this is the tip of the iceberg... I think it's gonna be a feast ;)
I do want to caution people against assuming this. Historically this has been the case, but in recent years I think some prog and metal bands have moved away from this. Presumably the rationale for doing this in the past has been to put forward the song most likely to get mainstream attention, but I think there's starting to be a realization somewhere in the world of prog/metal bands and labels that this is vanishingly unlikely to happen and it's instead a better idea to put forward something that's going to excite your core audience and attract people who are on the fringes of your audience.
See, for example, Avantasia releasing The Raven Child, the longest song on the album at 11 minutes, as the lead single for Moonglow. One of the least accessible songs on the album, but a perfect choice to get Avantasia fans excited, bring in Blind Guardian fans due to Hansi Kursch's prominent guest spot, and potentially appeal to prog metal fans.
Oh, I'm aware of this since Pink Floyd released "High hopes" as a single fom 1994's "The division bell". And more recently, Helloween with "Skyfall" (that's why I put "usually"). But in both cases those were the last songs of the albums. TA is an opener...
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I wouldn’t be surprised that we get the first three songs before the album release in the same manner as DOT. That leaves about 45 min of music left for album release.
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Yep, the song's clicked with me now, really enjoying it. You'd think that, after 16 years of being into the band, I'd let things digest before making my mind up, but there you go :lol
It's miles better than Untethered Angel as a lead single, for me. And I ended up really enjoying the rest of DOT, so that bodes really well.
I'm also really enjoying the production. I think Dream Theater's music works better with a more natural sounding mix, as opposed to the really hyped sound of DOT.
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So I am playing the song right now then I heard my 8-year old humming the JP outro solo while he's drawing Pokemon. This daddy's heart is filled with joy. :lol
I don't believe you. We already established several pages ago that the song lacks melody and hooks.
ololololololololololol
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I wouldn’t be surprised that we get the first three songs before the album release in the same manner as DOT. That leaves about 45 min of music left for album release.
This is a big reason I'm avoiding all singles until album release. It kind of spoiled DoT first listen for me, and the singles became some of my least favorite DT.
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It's exciting that when the song ends I'm just itching to hear more.... the mix and production are so good that it really makes me super excited for the album. I really like the Alien and if the rest of the album is as good this will be a killer record.
As an aside, totally off topic, I'm not a huge Live Album guy but I finally listened to "Score" as many have talked about that as the peak of DT. Wow do they sound amazing, and James slays that entire show.
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You finally listened to Score?? Wow!
It’s amazing to think that’s it’s 15 y/o this week.
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So, this is a beast of a song. There is so much going on. At face-value, it's a wank fest. But, so is Glass Prison... so after 20+ listens, I absolutely love this song now. There's something about DT's music that takes, even the biggest fan, some dedication to fully consume. It doesn't always click, but it did click for me on this song.
10 years ago, this song was exactly what I would have expected a Mike Mangini-throned Dream Theater would sound like. There are no remaining Portnoy-isms, his insane ambidexterity and calculus are at their max capacity. The yin and yang between that and Petrucci's melodic passages just make this a great new DT song for me. There's more to talk about, but I feel like that's what grabs me the most. I hope the rest of the album is similar. This is like the next step in their progression and MM has totally absorbed all the space possible.
-Tof
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It's exciting that when the song ends I'm just itching to hear more.... the mix and production are so good that it really makes me super excited for the album. I really like the Alien and if the rest of the album is as good this will be a killer record.
As an aside, totally off topic, I'm not a huge Live Album guy but I finally listened to "Score" as many have talked about that as the peak of DT. Wow do they sound amazing, and James slays that entire show.
Why?
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It's exciting that when the song ends I'm just itching to hear more.... the mix and production are so good that it really makes me super excited for the album. I really like the Alien and if the rest of the album is as good this will be a killer record.
As an aside, totally off topic, I'm not a huge Live Album guy but I finally listened to "Score" as many have talked about that as the peak of DT. Wow do they sound amazing, and James slays that entire show.
Why?
Why what?
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The sound quality of this song is just phenomenal. Myung and Mangini sound incredibly clear. Based on this alone, the new album will probably be a top 5 for me. I would LOVE it if this team would have been used on every album from ADToE forward. Can you imagine?
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It's exciting that when the song ends I'm just itching to hear more.... the mix and production are so good that it really makes me super excited for the album. I really like the Alien and if the rest of the album is as good this will be a killer record.
As an aside, totally off topic, I'm not a huge Live Album guy but I finally listened to "Score" as many have talked about that as the peak of DT. Wow do they sound amazing, and James slays that entire show.
Why?
Why what?
Why have you never heard or watched Score before?? A famous, amazing 20th anniversary show.
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Fair question… I just usually pay more attention to the studio albums and not the live albums. I’ve seen them 12 times live so it just doesn’t get me that excited but I admittedly am loving it .
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It's exciting that when the song ends I'm just itching to hear more.... the mix and production are so good that it really makes me super excited for the album. I really like the Alien and if the rest of the album is as good this will be a killer record.
As an aside, totally off topic, I'm not a huge Live Album guy but I finally listened to "Score" as many have talked about that as the peak of DT. Wow do they sound amazing, and James slays that entire show.
Why?
Why what?
Why have you never heard or watched Score before?? A famous, amazing 20th anniversary show.
Yeah, nothing says amazing better than an orchestra that can't tune and a drummer who rushes every song (compromising his bandmates and the orchestra) because he can't play to a click because of his ego, amazing indeed :biggrin:
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Sounds pretty amazing to me and it’s not even a set that includes many of my favourites.
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Yeah, nothing says amazing better than an orchestra that can't tune and a drummer who rushes every song (compromising his bandmates and the orchestra) because he can't play to a click because of his ego, amazing indeed :biggrin:
You're right about the orchestra, but I don't agree with the criticism of Portnoy. He never played to a click live. He grew up in a time of drummers that never played to a click live. Back when I played drums, I played live to a click once and hated it. It robs the life out of the performance, giving no room for variance.
Frankly, a lot of songs SHOULD be at a faster tempo live. That's the difference between live and studio. Live should feel ALIVE, not just a carbon copy of the original recording. It's the one fault I have with the Mangini era, and I'm not blaming Mangini for it, because I imagine his preference would also be to play without the click. He's a professional drummer, he has a good sense of time. As does Portnoy.
And technically, Portnoy didn't "rush" every song. It's only rushing if you're playing faster than the other bandmates anticipate playing. That's not what was happening. They just played faster live (or rather, were never slaves to the click track), and everyone in the band knew it was going to happen. And he didn't compromise the orchestra. Not sure what that even means.
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With you, Hef. That just sounds like an unnecessary shot to me.
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I don't think drumming could've saved that rendition of Vacant. It was a good idea on paper, but I did not enjoy that arrangement. The Answer Lies Within on the other hand is fantastic.
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I don't think drumming could've saved that rendition of Vacant. It was a good idea on paper, but I did not enjoy that arrangement. The Answer Lies Within on the other hand is fantastic.
The arrangement of TALW is definitely better, but the song itself sucks pretty bad, so it doesn't matter much.
Vacant was kind of an odd choice for that set list, although not the only one.
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I don't think drumming could've saved that rendition of Vacant. It was a good idea on paper, but I did not enjoy that arrangement. The Answer Lies Within on the other hand is fantastic.
The arrangement of TALW is definitely better, but the song itself sucks pretty bad, so it doesn't matter much.
Vacant was kind of an odd choice for that set list, although not the only one.
I have to imagine Vacant was only in there for time purposes.
Not a fan of the arrangement either. Took all the darkness out of it.
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I don't think drumming could've saved that rendition of Vacant. It was a good idea on paper, but I did not enjoy that arrangement. The Answer Lies Within on the other hand is fantastic.
The arrangement of TALW is definitely better, but the song itself sucks pretty bad, so it doesn't matter much.
Vacant was kind of an odd choice for that set list, although not the only one.
I have to imagine Vacant was only in there for time purposes.
Not a fan of the arrangement either. Took all the darkness out of it.
I can’t be bothered checking but, from memory, wasn’t Vacant the only TOT song that was not on the Budokan live album? Makes sense then, the way Mike operated, that this would be the TOT song they picked as they obviously went with something from every album. It helps as well that it’s the only short song on the album as they were already playing two huge epics.
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HTF was not on Bukokan.
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HTF was not on Bukokan.
No. But it wouldn't have fit either. As we've been over tons of times through the years, given all the different constraints they were under, there isn't really a way they could have altered the set very much without fundamentally altering the type of set they were trying to deliver.
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Hey I was just answering a question! ;D
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Hey I was just answering a question! ;D
You’re right, I always forget about that song.
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I wish they didn’t have the time constraints that they did on Score. Stream of Consciousness should have been played with Vacant.
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I wish they didn’t have the time constraints that they did on Score. Stream of Consciousness should have been played with Vacant.
Yeah, same here. I played around with different variations of the set list to see whether that could happen, and couldn't find a way to make space for it. The most likely way would be if you cut TALW (which I am in favor of), and went with shorter available songs from WDADU, I&W, and FII, and that still doesn't get you enough additional time to fit SOC. Adding the entire SDOIT really tied their hands on the set list within the structure of what they were trying to do (represent their entire catalog from the Majesty period through the current album AND support their new album). I get why those chose to play SDOIT. And I'm glad they did. It was the perfect opportunity to do something like that, and it was awesome that they did. But the consequence of them including it is that it destroyed a lot of their options to play anything other than what they did. And in the grand scheme of things, that's fine. It's a great set. It's just that, in hindsight, a lot of us would have preferred some different songs in some of those slots. In the end, it is what it is.
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I wish they didn’t have the time constraints that they did on Score. Stream of Consciousness should have been played with Vacant.
Yeah, same here. I played around with different variations of the set list to see whether that could happen, and couldn't find a way to make space for it. The most likely way would be if you cut TALW (which I am in favor of), and went with shorter available songs from WDADU, I&W, and FII, and that still doesn't get you enough additional time to fit SOC. Adding the entire SDOIT really tied their hands on the set list within the structure of what they were trying to do (represent their entire catalog from the Majesty period through the current album AND support their new album). I get why those chose to play SDOIT. And I'm glad they did. It was the perfect opportunity to do something like that, and it was awesome that they did. But the consequence of them including it is that it destroyed a lot of their options to play anything other than what they did. And in the grand scheme of things, that's fine. It's a great set. It's just that, in hindsight, a lot of us would have preferred some different songs in some of those slots. In the end, it is what it is.
They could've dropped Metropolis, though.
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They could have. But there's no reason they should have. I don't think dropping one of the possibly three "definitive DT songs" from the set and, simultaneously, deciding not to have an encore is something that hardly anyone would consider to be an improvement.
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They could have. But there's no reason they should have. I don't think dropping one of the possibly three "definitive DT songs" from the set and, simultaneously, deciding not to have an encore is something that hardly anyone would consider to be an improvement.
And I think the choice of having Vacant and The Answer Lies Within in there was to have a little bit of a breather. After the epic SDOIT and then Sacrificed Sons and Octavarium, a little space in the middle was good to break those up. When Score first came out, I didn’t like the setlist but over time I feel that it works perfectly.
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They could have. But there's no reason they should have. I don't think dropping one of the possibly three "definitive DT songs" from the set and, simultaneously, deciding not to have an encore is something that hardly anyone would consider to be an improvement.
And I think the choice of having Vacant and The Answer Lies Within in there was to have a little bit of a breather. After the epic SDOIT and then Sacrificed Sons and Octavarium, a little space in the middle was good to break those up.
Yeah. And one can certainly argue that they were just trying to do TOO MUCH by wanting to represent their entire catalog AND heavily promote their new album (which included a 24 minute epic), while also then incorporating a 40+ minute song and an orchestra, all in one show. That's a valid opinion. But bottom line is, that's what they decided, and that wasn't going to change. And that series of decisions pretty much locked the vast majority of the set into place. So at the end of the day, we can either like or dislike the decision, but lamenting over particular song choices is pretty pointless.
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There are tons of other great sounding shows from that tour so anyone can find a decent version of anything they're looking for.
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They could have. But there's no reason they should have. I don't think dropping one of the possibly three "definitive DT songs" from the set and, simultaneously, deciding not to have an encore is something that hardly anyone would consider to be an improvement.
Also, that's probably my favorite live version of Metropolis, and the best use of the orchestra (on a song that didn't already have an orchestra). I miss the French horns whenever I listen to any other version of that song.
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Yep, love Metropolis with the Orchestra, like you, it’s my favourite version of the song.
I think the set is great in that it represents all the albums and, for the most part, it’s all songs that weren’t on any of the other main live albums. I’d much rather have a professionally recorded live SDOIT, which didn’t exist previously, over another live recording of SOC when we just got that on the previous live release.
A lot of these songs were not fan favourites but that’s because we already had live versions of most of those and Mike was always conscious of not repeating things on live releases. I raised my eyebrows when I saw the set list for the dvd as there’s not many of my faves on there. As it happens though, it works great and is far and away my most watched live dvd of Dream Theater.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avFxqG3BC7U
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avFxqG3BC7U
I don't know whether to like that or loathe it. :lol
Glad to see James is into it and having fun though.
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Well that was good actually.
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Way to derail a thread to Score.
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Guys,guys,guys....
It's a topic about The Alien,not about Score,not about DT live albums,and not about MP drumming.
You can take your disagreements to so many other existing threads where people disagree about anything DT related.
You can even start a new DISAGREEMENTS thread,where you can fight about anything,and keep all the others clean,for people to talk.
We don't need you to derail a NEW one,as @erwinrafael said.
That thing where a thread turns into whatever anyone says and all the others comment on his irrelevant post here in this forum is very annoying.
It's time to stop.
Either we want DT fans to participate here and share their opinions,in a tidy way,or some people will continue to annoy other members,
and the admins will keep allowing it.
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I hear ya bro, but trust me, that's the nature of the beast around these parts. ;)
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Way to derail a thread to Score.
It wouldn't have been derailed had someone not taken an unnecessary swing at MP :lol
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Don't think this has been posted yet, Shawn Crowder did a video dissecting some of the drum parts of The Alien:
https://youtu.be/uC3tiQqyICQ
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Haha. Nothing makes me cringe like anything extra terrestrial being " out of this world ". :rollin
It's probably the most over-used cliche there is.
Also reminds me that I saw a drum channel video trying to re-create Mike Portnoy's kit and they just *had* to drop in a "Labrie sucks lol." ::)
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Watch Mike Mangini match the album track for The Alien at 110% speed as part of his preparation for the Top Of The World Tour!
https://youtu.be/EFx19PMxGTc
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Mike Mangini is the alien. That drumming is sick.
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Incredible! :metal :hefdaddy
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I like that drum set a lot! :coolio
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So if it is sped up to 110% of the original shouldn't the vocals also be sped up?
Back in the day, we used to do the speed trick in rehearsals in theater. It sure helped to memorize lines and kept the crew on our toes. This carried over to my band days where we would rehearse songs in double time. Great tool for muscle memory.
Oh - and MM - :metal :metal
:hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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Having been disappointed by all DT releases since ADTOE, I didn't expect much from this album. I have just listened this song for the second time; the first time, it sounded very promising. The second time (now), I was blown away by how good it felt. A lot of sections left me amazed, one of those being the end of the guitar solo with that Blind Faith/Steve Vai vibe
I will certainly need more listens to digest this properly, but my god, this song has been amazing so far, coming together perfectly, not at all disconnected like some claimed.
I have been very critical of over-compressed song structures in the last few albums, so now I really have to say THANK YOU DT for finally giving the song breathing space and taking time to develop the motives/melodies.
If they keep this up for the whole album, I might end up becoming the DT fanboy again like I was in high school!
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Very impressive! Love his new setup. Can't say enough about how amazing that performance is. Still feeling like this will be a top tier album and I can't wait to hear it!
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I'm not 100% sure, but I believe this isn't MM new drum setup, but only the drum configuration necessary to play The Alien. But, I also think this one's works greatly!
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Mike Mangini is the alien. That drumming is sick.
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That was an amazing drum playthrough and it was great to hear it in a faster speed, but it does sound too fast and that's the speed MP would've been playing the song in. :biggrin: :lol
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That was an amazing drum playthrough and it was great to hear it in a faster speed, but it does sound too fast and that's the speed MP would've been playing the song in. :biggrin: :lol
Here we go again :lol
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So if it is sped up to 110% of the original shouldn't the vocals also be sped up?
Not if it's time stretched. You can speed up the song without changing the pitch.
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I find with a lot of Mangini era DT songs - that non 'epic' tracks feel like they sort of wind down as if they were writing an epic.
I don't know how to explain it. Like a 7 minute song will have the big finale and de-crescendo.
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Some people still shitting on Mangini in the Youtube video in his personal channel because Portnoy supposedly could have played this song with more feel.
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This video was actually one of the times I thought Mangini *didn't* sound mechanical.
If it was Portnoy - it would be full of his bag of tricks.
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This video was actually one of the times I thought Mangini *didn't* sound mechanical.
If it was Portnoy - it would be full of his bag of tricks.
I can almost hear the overuse of 16th notes.
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This video was actually one of the times I thought Mangini *didn't* sound mechanical.
If it was Portnoy - it would be full of his bag of tricks.
I can almost hear the overuse of 16th notes.
If you watch the video, the song is actually full of 16th notes.
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This video was actually one of the times I thought Mangini *didn't* sound mechanical.
If it was Portnoy - it would be full of his bag of tricks.
If it were Portnoy, I'm not sure this song gets written.
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If it were Portnoy, I'm not sure this song gets written.
It was Mangini who brought in the 5+5+7 pattern that a large chunk of the song was based on, so it certainly wouldn't exist without him.
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I find with a lot of Mangini era DT songs - that non 'epic' tracks feel like they sort of wind down as if they were writing an epic.
I don't know how to explain it. Like a 7 minute song will have the big finale and de-crescendo.
Right, off the top of my head I can think of The Bigger Picture and Barstool Warrior with grandiose inspirational finales.
At Wit's End has that beautiful outro that fades out.
The Alien also definitely sounds like it could be the end of an album
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh1EBraQY7s
Mike, WTF are you talking about? :lol
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Haha! Wat?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh1EBraQY7s
Mike, WTF are you talking about? :lol
The video is aimed at potential enrollees in his drum lessons. He is basically saying that while there are crazy time sigs and polys in The Alien, the key to learning it is not to count but to think of shapes.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh1EBraQY7s
Mike, WTF are you talking about? :lol
Mangini spitting facts, as always. I could listen to him talk about drumming for hours nonstop; contagious charisma and very knowledgeable.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh1EBraQY7s
Mike, WTF are you talking about? :lol
The video is aimed at potential enrollees in his drum lessons. He is basically saying that while there are crazy time sigs and polys in The Alien, the key to learning it is not to count but to think of shapes.
Is there an emoticon for 'gonna keep my mouth shut' ...
;D
How about learning the song by...wait for it...Learning the song?
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Do you teach music?
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Well I know for one thing - on my guitar degree - the tutors were all against learning shapes.
I know guitar is not drums but the idea is the same. Learning shapes on guitar is a sure fire way to get stuck in a rut.
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He's talking about rhythmic shapes that expand your musical vocabulary beyond the usual, not shapes on a fretboard that limit your harmonic vocabulary. So the idea is not the same at all.
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Actually, if you're patient enough to watch a video that's not that long, Mike explains exactly what's on his mind when playing, and it's awesome! It's not complicated at all to understand and it's very humble of him, the guy is a genius but still shows that all this knowledge is accessable.
The video is not only about The Alien as I see it, it is about his approach to music. If you don't understand Mangini's way of thinking/playing, open up your mind and watch the video.
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Well I know for one thing - on my guitar degree - the tutors were all against learning shapes.
I know guitar is not drums but the idea is the same. Learning shapes on guitar is a sure fire way to get stuck in a rut.
Well, I do teach music and this is me playing and leading a group of amateur university students (we pride ourselves in that, we don't do auditions, we don't require any musical pedigree) during our groups's 30th anniversary concert:
https://youtu.be/XV5WLxbB3Gg
And one way we learned to teach these percussive pieces especially when handling instruments that have like eight gongs is for them to subdivide the instrument into spatial areas then visualize the shape their arms would move when playing the piece. That is what Mangini is saying, imagine shapes when playing the music so you can see where your arms are going. It is like teaching a dance.
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Actually, if you're patient enough to watch a video that's not that long, Mike explains exactly what's on his mind when playing, and it's awesome! It's not complicated at all to understand and it's very humble of him, the guy is a genius but still shows that all this knowledge is accessable.
The video is not only about The Alien as I see it, it is about his approach to music. If you don't understand Mangini's way of thinking/playing, open up your mind and watch the video.
He made a post over-over-explaining a 1 second drum fill. :lol i'm good.
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You know what's funny? A guitarist making fun of how a drummer is trying to explain to other drummers.
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As someone who's taught for over twenty years, I've learned to admire and appreciate the different approaches of others.
Rather than focusing on the 'right' way to teach something, I prefer to ackolwedge that I am not, in fact, an expert, but rather, a student myself. For that reason, I am always eager to 'talk shop' with others in the hopes of garnering a new approach or insight. For this reason, I feel I am a far better teacher today than I was 20 years ago.
I enjoy Mangini's videos—I am not a drummer, but his passion and methodology transcends his instrument.
Not sure why anyone would want to tear apart an accomplished teacher's approach—I'd rather 'listen' and learn something myself...but that's just me ;D
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I really can't connect with MM's drumming voice or his general approach for the most part. That said, I definitely respect it and if what he does/teaches connects with people, then more power to him.
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Actually, if you're patient enough to watch a video that's not that long, Mike explains exactly what's on his mind when playing, and it's awesome! It's not complicated at all to understand and it's very humble of him, the guy is a genius but still shows that all this knowledge is accessable.
The video is not only about The Alien as I see it, it is about his approach to music. If you don't understand Mangini's way of thinking/playing, open up your mind and watch the video.
He made a post over-over-explaining a 1 second drum fill. :lol i'm good.
Thank you for all the joy you bring to these boards ::)
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I really can't connect with MM's drumming voice or his general approach for the most part. That said, I definitely respect it and if what he does/teaches connects with people, then more power to him.
That's exactly how I feel. 100%.
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I really can't connect with MM's drumming voice or his general approach for the most part. That said, I definitely respect it and if what he does/teaches connects with people, then more power to him.
That's exactly how I feel. 100%.
WELL NOW I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH IT DON’T I!?!
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I really can't connect with MM's drumming voice or his general approach for the most part. That said, I definitely respect it and if what he does/teaches connects with people, then more power to him.
That's exactly how I feel. 100%.
WELL NOW I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH IT DON’T I!?!
We need an Opposite Day; one day a year where we can agree without consequences! :) :) :)
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Well I know for one thing - on my guitar degree - the tutors were all against learning shapes.
I know guitar is not drums but the idea is the same. Learning shapes on guitar is a sure fire way to get stuck in a rut.
The problem of learning by shapes (CAGED, pentatonic boxes, etc.) on guitar is not understanding what's going on when you play; as well the mechanic nature of learning them. Once you learn intervals (and how to play them on the fretboard), the shapes become kinda meaningles.
But Mangini is talking about thinking of rhythms as shapes, as a visual idea in your mind. It doesn't mean not knowing what's going on, unlike using shapes on guitar.
It helped me, I use that concept for subdivisions (and I learned how to count them), but using "shapes" is like pressing buttons to switch between subdivisions. It's fun.
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Apparently it's become a pattern. Mangini decides to post something on the internet with the intention of teaching music in some way and, not long after, you may see a shower of criticism on the DTF. :facepalm:
I really am unable to understand why it bothers people so much.
I don't know if people don't like teaching, teachers, the teacher specifically, or everything together. :lol
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh1EBraQY7s
Mike, WTF are you talking about? :lol
The video is aimed at potential enrollees in his drum lessons. He is basically saying that while there are crazy time sigs and polys in The Alien, the key to learning it is not to count but to think of shapes.
No no, I get it. And I love MM. I was just being tongue in cheek, because after about a minute of what he was saying I was totally lost. :lol
I did watch the entire thing.
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Thank you for all the joy you bring to these boards ::)
Well when people disagree with every post you make - no matter what - that tends to happen. Seriously I could post " Octavarium is Dream Theater's 8th studio album " and
i'd get a reply " Um...no. "
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Thank you for all the joy you bring to these boards ::)
Well when people disagree with every post you make - no matter what - that tends to happen. Seriously I could post " Octavarium is Dream Theater's 8th studio album " and
i'd get a reply " Um...no. "
Um....no
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Thank you for all the joy you bring to these boards ::)
Well when people disagree with every post you make - no matter what - that tends to happen. Seriously I could post " Octavarium is Dream Theater's 8th studio album " and
i'd get a reply " Um...no. "
Um....no
Um...yes
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I definitely prefer THE ALIEN to On The Backs Of Angels. Not sure about The Enemy Inside. I prefer The Gift Of Music and i'd put it equal with Untethered Angel.
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Thank you for all the joy you bring to these boards ::)
Well when people disagree with every post you make - no matter what - that tends to happen. Seriously I could post " Octavarium is Dream Theater's 8th studio album " and
i'd get a reply " Um...no. "
It’s the way you present your opinions mostly. Ban or no ban, you come across like a douchebag most of the time. Just being honest.
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So do a lot of people on here. But some of them are mods so we're not allowed to say anything.
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So do a lot of people on here. But some of them are mods so we're not allowed to say anything.
That may be true, but that’s not what I was saying. I didn’t say you were the only douche here. You seemed perturbed that people disagree with you all of the time, or give you shit a lot. I was just explaining that it may not always be your negative or contrarian opinions ( it could be). A lot may be that you come across so snobby, arrogant and well…douchey all of the time.
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Just wanted to poke my head in to acknowledge that I have read the above posts, and what I am subjectively getting from then as that Trav is genuinely trying to be constructive and not engage in personal attacks. But it's a fine line, so please be aware of that. Carry on.
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Just wanted to poke my head in to acknowledge that I have read the above posts, and what I am subjectively getting from then as that Trav is genuinely trying to be constructive and not engage in personal attacks. But it's a fine line, so please be aware of that. Carry on.
That was my intention, but I knew I was pushing it. I’m done.
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Thank you for all the joy you bring to these boards ::)
Well when people disagree with every post you make - no matter what - that tends to happen. Seriously I could post " Octavarium is Dream Theater's 8th studio album " and
i'd get a reply " Um...no. "
If I bothers you, perhaps an approach may be asking who/what is the common denominator…
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Thank you for all the joy you bring to these boards ::)
Well when people disagree with every post you make - no matter what - that tends to happen. Seriously I could post " Octavarium is Dream Theater's 8th studio album " and
i'd get a reply " Um...no. "
Opinions are fine. It's how they're expressed that's often the issue, at least in my experience. Take your Weezer remark in the Metallica(!) thread, for example. Just say you don't like their recent output rather than choosing (slightly more) antagonistic language. I know it's a forum and debate is fun but if you don't want such diametrically opposed responses, well... As a Weezer fan who's quite fond of their last few albums, I went to reply to your Weezer remark a few minutes ago and then found myself wondering what the point would be.
I'll own up. I was one of the people who reported your MP comment (I feel there's a growing anti-MP sentiment from the usual suspects here at the moment, as people passionately engage with the new release, enjoying Mangini's performance). I thought it was beyond the pale, never mind what you called another person on the board, whether a moderator or not.
But I do think you make some interesting points on occasion. It'd be a shame to lose much of your input.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh1EBraQY7s
Mike, WTF are you talking about? :lol
The video is aimed at potential enrollees in his drum lessons. He is basically saying that while there are crazy time sigs and polys in The Alien, the key to learning it is not to count but to think of shapes.
No no, I get it. And I love MM. I was just being tongue in cheek, because after about a minute of what he was saying I was totally lost. :lol
I did watch the entire thing.
Sorry, I can not get what is tounge in cheek anymore because of some of the posts in this thread. :lol
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Thank you for all the joy you bring to these boards ::)
Well when people disagree with every post you make - no matter what - that tends to happen. Seriously I could post " Octavarium is Dream Theater's 8th studio album " and
i'd get a reply " Um...no. "
Opinions are fine. It's how they're expressed that's often the issue, at least in my experience. Take your Weezer remark in the Metallica(!) thread, for example. Just say you don't like their recent output rather than choosing (slightly more) antagonistic language. I know it's a forum and debate is fun but if you don't want such diametrically opposed responses, well... As a Weezer fan who's quite fond of their last few albums, I went to reply to your Weezer remark a few minutes ago and then found myself wondering what the point would be.
I'll own up. I was one of the people who reported your MP comment (I feel there's a growing anti-MP sentiment from the usual suspects here at the moment, as people passionately engage with the new release, enjoying Mangini's performance). I thought it was beyond the pale, never mind what you called another person on the board, whether a moderator or not.
But I do think you make some interesting points on occasion. It'd be a shame to lose much of your input.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENvALvoWoAALaSv.jpg)
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How about learning the song by...wait for it...Learning the song?
(https://i.imgur.com/NEILZbV.png)
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:tup simple, right ?
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How about learning the song by...wait for it...Learning the song?
(https://i.imgflip.com/2ww4n2.png)
Pedagogically brilliant. :lol
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:tup simple, right ?
Considering that learning by mimicking stuff like a parrot is a terrible idea, and Mangini isn't teaching the song itself but a concept (used when composing the song), yeah, no. Definitely no.
Mangini is teaching how to approach "complex" rhythms in an intuitive way; in the video he plays a 7-tuplet fill in a way that sounds like 'swung' triplets. He studied a lot, and can play without thinking of the concepts themselves, but he has the knowledge to analyze those things and explain them too; paraphrasing him, by the way.
And I have said this in a different thread, if you had someone with his knowledge as a teacher, it would be a scam if he only taught you to mimick written things. And then perhaps act like playing in 7/8 or shifting between time sigs is some deep, complex concept that only awards winners understand. But I digress ::)
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Yeah, what I like about Mangini is that he does not sugarcoat that some of the stuff he plays are complex, but he teaches not just how you can play it but how you can also also "hear" it, visualize it, and hopefully compose something like it.
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Yeah, what I like about Mangini is that he does not sugarcoat that some of the stuff he plays are complex, but he teaches not just how you can play it but how you can also also "hear" it, visualize it, and hopefully compose something like it.
Nice summing up. I think it's great that MM shares this stuff.
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Sorry if this has been brought up already but, listening to The Alien again realizing that the lyrics state "digital man" and the background countdown actually loosly mimics background NASA word from the song "Countdown" both from Rush's Signals album, which is from my, along with with Permanent Waves and Moving Pctures, high school years... Yes I'm old.... Lol... Anyhoo... might there be an "Analog kid" lyric on this album?
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You are old. ;D
Moving Pictures was 1981..The Lovely Mrs TAC graduated in 1981. :lol
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You are old. ;D
Moving Pictures was 1981..The Lovely Mrs TAC graduated in 1981. :lol
Yep... I'm the same age as...... Welll.... them.... Ouch!
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Now that we're well into the first week of September, any possibility of a new single anytime soon? We need something new to talk about since the discussions on The Alien have seem to run it's course.. 👽💤
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I expect a new single until the end of next week. I dare to guess it will be Invisible Monster.
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I'd rather no new single before the album.
I know I don't have to listen to it - but if there's another ten minute single that's 20 minutes of the new album we've already heard.
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I'd rather no new single before the album.
I know I don't have to listen to it - but if there's another ten minute single that's 20 minutes of the new album we've already heard.
I'm also considering not listening to anything new until i get my hands on the album. I've already overplayed The Alien.
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I'd rather no new single before the album.
I know I don't have to listen to it - but if there's another ten minute single that's 20 minutes of the new album we've already heard.
I'm also considering not listening to anything new until i get my hands on the album. I've already overplayed The Alien.
Yep - as it’s only a month and a bit away, I’m not listening to anything else to keep things fresh. Loved when I’ve played The Alien, but that’s me until the album comes out in it’s entirety now 👍
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Now that we're well into the first week of September, any possibility of a new single anytime soon? We need something new to talk about since the discussions on The Alien have seem to run it's course.. 👽💤
I originally said that DT’s new album cycle is 3 weeks ahead of Yes and will follow the same pattern. Same label, Yes 1st single released exactly 3 weeks before Alien. Yes’ 2nd single was released last week.. so I’m gonna say the week beginning 20th September for the next single.
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I think Invisible Monster on the 17th
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I've barely listened to The Alien. Maybe a handful of times but I don't need to listen to it again until the album is out.
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Sorry if this has been brought up already but, listening to The Alien again realizing that the lyrics state "digital man" and the background countdown actually loosly mimics background NASA word from the song "Countdown" both from Rush's Signals album, which is from my, along with with Permanent Waves and Moving Pctures, high school years... Yes I'm old.... Lol... Anyhoo... might there be an "Analog kid" lyric on this album?
I caught these allusions but I didn't make the same connections as deeply as you did. Good catch! :tup
Let's hope there's more!
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I've barely listened to The Alien. Maybe a handful of times but I don't need to listen to it again until the album is out.
Good for you. This is definitely a grower, and it will be better to listen to in the context of the full album.
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:lolpalm: oh for gods sake...
I meant because I don't want to get sick of it before the album comes out.
Jesus Christ.
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Have not listened to the single and plan to wait until the whole album is available. Excited to see them again in December and plan to not look at the set list before the concert.
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:lolpalm: oh for gods sake...
I meant because I don't want to get sick of it before the album comes out.
Jesus Christ.
Yeah i didn't disagree, did my post seem sarcastic? ???
I actually think it's a good approach
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:\ hmmm guess i'm just used to everyone getting pissy about literally anything I post....
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However i'm like that with albums too. I don't know when I last listened to Distance Over Time. I tend to listen to new albums a lot in the first few weeks. Then I just stop listening to them..
That makes the most recent album seem a lot newer.
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I've heard the song 4-5 times now and yea...it's just not doing anything for me. There's nothing bad or offputting about it really, it just kind of goes in one ear and out the other. Nothing sticks with me other than the impression that MM did a fantastic job. I don't remember specific beats or fills, but I do remember thinking that he's crushing it throughout, and I am not a huge fan of his style. Nothing JP, JR, JMX, or JLB did left any impression on me. Just kind of normal DT riffs/leads/solos/vocals.
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:\ hmmm guess i'm just used to everyone getting pissy about literally anything I post....
:chill :chill :chill Seriously mate :hat
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:\ hmmm guess i'm just used to everyone getting pissy about literally anything I post....
That is quite clearly your goal, after seeing your posts for a decade.
The forum would be better off without the trolling behavior seen on essentially all of your posts.
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Also, the self pity act is played out and not even well done.
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:\ hmmm guess i'm just used to everyone getting pissy about literally anything I post....
That is quite clearly your goal, after seeing your posts for a decade.
The forum would be better off without the trolling behavior seen on essentially all of your posts.
I gotta level up my game, Kotow is leading the annoyance race, I'm way behind.
But I like him, his posts are fun. Way more interesting and talk-worthy than the average cold takes parrot :lol
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:\ hmmm guess i'm just used to everyone getting pissy about literally anything I post....
That is quite clearly your goal, after seeing your posts for a decade.
The forum would be better off without the trolling behavior seen on essentially all of your posts.
Only coz I have to put up with d---s like you and "lol" Hef finding fault in every post no matter what. Gosh I wonder why i'm so pissy all the time. It's a mystery !
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:\ hmmm guess i'm just used to everyone getting pissy about literally anything I post....
That is quite clearly your goal, after seeing your posts for a decade.
The forum would be better off without the trolling behavior seen on essentially all of your posts.
Pretty much.
To quote from Mr. Holland's Opus, the best thing to do with a pest is to ignore it.
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:lolpalm: oh for gods sake...
I meant because I don't want to get sick of it before the album comes out.
Jesus Christ.
Lol talk about overreaction :rollin
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Doug loves the playing on The Alien. Likes but not loves the songwriting: https://vimeo.com/599039436
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:\ hmmm guess i'm just used to everyone getting pissy about literally anything I post....
If "everyone" is getting pissy at your posts, you may want to consider what the common denominator is.
In any case, stuff like this:
Only coz I have to put up with d---s like you
is not acceptable. If you are finding posts hard to put up with, might I suggest you log off and take a break, lest a more permanent one be reimposed upon you. Consider this your last reminder.
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:\ hmmm guess i'm just used to everyone getting pissy about literally anything I post....
If "everyone" is getting pissy at your posts, you may want to consider what the common denominator is.
In any case, stuff like this:
Only coz I have to put up with d---s like you
is not acceptable. If you are finding posts hard to put up with, might I suggest you log off and take a break, lest a more permanent one be reimposed upon you. Consider this your last reminder.
The idea this guy needs to be handled with kids gloves is ridiculous. I actually logged in for first time in years to send a mods a message about him, he clearly needs help.
And then he calls me a dick. He is a toxic personality who needs to be dealt with by banning forever.
I heard he has a degree in guitar though.
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:\ hmmm guess i'm just used to everyone getting pissy about literally anything I post....
If "everyone" is getting pissy at your posts, you may want to consider what the common denominator is.
In any case, stuff like this:
Only coz I have to put up with d---s like you
is not acceptable. If you are finding posts hard to put up with, might I suggest you log off and take a break, lest a more permanent one be reimposed upon you. Consider this your last reminder.
The idea this guy needs to be handled with kids gloves is ridiculous. I actually logged in for first time in years to send a mods a message about him, he clearly needs help.
And then he calls me a dick. He is a toxic personality who needs to be dealt with by banning forever.
I heard he has a degree in guitar though.
And precisely NONE of what you posted is acceptable or helpful in any way. So consider yourself warned as well for personally attacking him. Yes, his response was completely inappropriate. But that response was 100% instigated by you.
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The idea this guy needs to be handled with kids gloves is ridiculous. I actually logged in for first time in years to send a mods a message about him, he clearly needs help.
And then he calls me a dick. He is a toxic personality who needs to be dealt with by banning forever.
I heard he has a degree in guitar though.
1. Who gets banned and when is not your decision, its the mods and admin's decision. What we NEED to do is follow our own protocols and judgement.
2. Being snarky and suggesting people need "help" does nothing to help deescalate things, so refrain from that if you would be so kind.
3. If you have a problem with a user or post, report it or PM one of the mod team. Threads like these are not the proper place for airing your grievances.
EDIT: In after the Bosk.
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I've barely listened to The Alien. Maybe a handful of times but I don't need to listen to it again until the album is out.
I was in that boat but put it on last week and it finally clicked. Now the problem is that I don't do streaming services or whatever so youtube is the only way I can listen to it which is a hassle to use. So I may hold off on listening to it more until I can do so properly.
Drives me nuts that they don't do the chorus more. I love that melody even though its pretty simplistic.
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YET AGAIN, it's been proven to me. I heard the first NMB song (I can't even remember what it was) and hated it, and right now, I&D is my album of the year, and not a duff song on it. I listened to WOTW and Stratego by Maiden and was like "eh, Maiden by numbers, but surely the tour will be good and I love the album cover!" and now that the album is out, I can't even pick the best song, they're all so good. So I'm going to cool my jets and wait until the album is released.
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YET AGAIN, it's been proven to me. I heard the first NMB song (I can't even remember what it was) and hated it, and right now, I&D is my album of the year, and not a duff song on it. I listened to WOTW and Stratego by Maiden and was like "eh, Maiden by numbers, but surely the tour will be good and I love the album cover!" and now that the album is out, I can't even pick the best song, they're all so good. So I'm going to cool my jets and wait until the album is released.
I had the same thing with Senjutsu. My first overall listen left me with a "meh" feeling, but it was definitely a grower. I really love it now, and both WOTW (which has, imo, Adrian Smith's best solo in the reunion era) and Stratego grew A LOT in the context of the album. Reading the lyrics to the title-track also helped me loads. I already had noticed that the song was rather desperate and depressing, but reading that it was about a castle or kingdom being attacked and then it finally getting under siege in the middle of the song made the song grow ridiculously to me, to the point that it's one of my favourites in the album. It goes without saying that Bruce's theatrical approach also helped a lot. Janick, again, surprised me with The Time Machine. He is probably my favourite composer in the band. Although I already absolutely love The Alien, I'm sure the song will be even more amazing with the full album.
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Also, the self pity act is played out and not even well done.
Yep! Thinking about killing myself every day is all an act to hopefully get DTF to love me!! You got me !
...Surely making light of people's struggle with Mental Health is a little bit worse than being a bit grumpy on a web page ?
:tup
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Also, the self pity act is played out and not even well done.
Yep! Thinking about killing myself every day is all an act to hopefully get DTF to love me!! You got me !
...Surely making light of people's struggle with Mental Health is a little bit worse than being a bit grumpy on a web page ?
:tup
Fyi, there's a difference between struggling with mental health & using it as an excuse to outlash at people only to then guilt-trip said people when backed into a corner.
I've had to learn this lesson in the past too, so it's not like I don't understand how you feel, but I don't think you're helping yourself or anyone else by continuing to act this way.
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Also, the self pity act is played out and not even well done.
Yep! Thinking about killing myself every day is all an act to hopefully get DTF to love me!! You got me !
...Surely making light of people's struggle with Mental Health is a little bit worse than being a bit grumpy on a web page ?
:tup
Mate, I’m genuinely asking here and not being a dick, but what is your end goal with all of this? I only ask as if it’s about enjoying a forum for a band you like and having some good banter with others then that’s great. But as an outsider looking in who doesn’t post all that much, it just seems by the tone of many of your posts that you look at pushing peoples buttons and often have a negative vibe to many your posts, which often make me question if you even like the band (and no, I don’t mean we have to love everything the band does).
Trust me, I’m at an age where if someone has a go at me, I’ll dig my heels in and tell them to fuck right off. But if I’m to be honest, if I read posts here objectively, that doesn’t seem to be happening here. It appears that many may comment on a negative post or vibe given off and then you tend to overreact and the situation snowballs. Perhaps you can’t see that, and that’s fine, as we like to back ourselves in. But again, the question - what do you want out of this and what’s the end goal. In any case, just putting it out there. I happen to enjoy some of your ideas about not always liking some of the “golden era” albums etc. and have zero against you personally, so I hope you do stay around (just a bit less grumpy ;)). Peace brother :tup
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No. You got him wrong. He's been around a long time. I don't agree with him a lot but it's never about starting issues with others. It's just his opinion.
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No. You got him wrong. He's been around a long time. I don't agree with him a lot but it's never about starting issues with others. It's just his opinion.
Cool. Maybe it’s just the way it comes across and just some of the more recent posts I’ve seen have made me cringe a bit. And based on some of the responses there seems to be a history there, talk of bannings etc. I haven’t posted a heap, but been here over 10 years myself and as I say, I enjoy some of his opinions different to the norm and have no issue personally. Just basing it off what I’m reading of late :tup
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Since Kotowboy is becoming the topic in this thread, is he the Alien? Let's get back to the song please. :lol
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When I first heard it I thought of a less heavy Untethered Angel. It has a very similar vibe to me.
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The 1st release is usually my least favorite song on the album. Not always true but a high %.
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When I first heard it I thought of a less heavy Untethered Angel. It has a very similar vibe to me.
Yeah, the intro riffs feel similar.
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Unfortunately JP does those simplistic chugging riffs in a lot of the verse sections of songs, especially the first verse. Wish he would do something a little more imaginative in those sections but maybe it's intentional to not distract from the vocals?
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Unfortunately JP does those simplistic chugging riffs in a lot of the verse sections of songs, especially the first verse. Wish he would do something a little more imaginative in those sections but maybe it's intentional to not distract from the vocals?
This. I think it's nice to have a break from the flurry of notes. And yes, the vocal melodies tend to open up when juxtaposed against a simple, tonal pedal-tone.
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Unfortunately JP does those simplistic chugging riffs in a lot of the verse sections of songs, especially the first verse. Wish he would do something a little more imaginative in those sections but maybe it's intentional to not distract from the vocals?
This. I think it's nice to have a break from the flurry of notes. And yes, the vocal melodies tend to open up when juxtaposed against a simple, tonal pedal-tone.
Well I don't mean a flurry of notes, but maybe Metallica style riffs Judas Priest riffs. Those singers have no problem singing over the top of them.
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Unfortunately JP does those simplistic chugging riffs in a lot of the verse sections of songs, especially the first verse. Wish he would do something a little more imaginative in those sections but maybe it's intentional to not distract from the vocals?
This. I think it's nice to have a break from the flurry of notes. And yes, the vocal melodies tend to open up when juxtaposed against a simple, tonal pedal-tone.
Ahhh, I hear you—good call!
I suppose Jordan often provides counterpoint (like a second guitarist might).
Take ‘Outcry’ for instance—JPs riff is hella simple, but JR provides JLB’s vocal with the melodic accompaniment.
Well I don't mean a flurry of notes, but maybe Metallica style riffs Judas Priest riffs. Those singers have no problem singing over the top of them.
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I am straight up loving this song--moreso than is typical for initial singles.
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I am straight up loving this song--moreso than is typical for initial singles.
So do I, it's the band's greatest initial single leading up to an album to date IMHO. The perfect balance of technique, musicality and beauty. (the reaction I had for myself after I listened to it for the first time was similar to whenever I listened to Dramatic Turn and DT12 for the first time, and Met2 really early on as well. That times ten and you have my reaction to TA.)
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I tried to listen to the song only a handful of times, failed miserably ;D
But I sense this one will not feel weary like the others singles from previous albums, cause it has more elements to be surprised by. I think it's very rich in details.
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Review / reaction from Doug Helvering
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfLzWyiJ8Hc
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Cool to watch. Love those brief, wtf, distorted facial expressions..."wow!"
And even he says, "the drums sound great!"
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I was pleased by the Alien, though I found it a little formulaic for Dream Theater.
It's really a 100-mph riff salad with plenty of cool guitar parts. Some remind me of things JP has written already, which is my biggest knock on the single. My favorite aspects were the drums and the overall mix. Mangini totally killed it-- LOVE the intensity and the interesting parts (though my polyrhythm knowledge isn't strong enough to say exactly what is happening everywhere). I feel like you can really hear the bass clearly for once.
I thought the topic and lyrics were good. The vocal melody isn't particularly strong but it's not weak either; it's just fine.
Overall, it has a lot of the things I love about DT but just feels like they've done this before. I hope the rest of the album is a little more interesting.
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I am straight up loving this song--moreso than is typical for initial singles.
I listened to it 3 times and each time it got better. I didn't want to overplay it so I wouldn't skip it when the album came out. I tend to do that.
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"Ah, I got it!"
"- Now they've gone onto something else."
- Doug Helvering
:lol
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I'm just loving the groove of John Myung and Mangini. Especially the ending groove. That's an awesome progression as well, and gets me pumped up and just get's me energetic.
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I tried to listen to the song only a handful of times, failed miserably ;D
But I sense this one will not feel weary like the others singles from previous albums, cause it has more elements to be surprised by. I think it's very rich in details.
I am loving reading the reactions to the single, but not tempted to listen until the whole album come out.
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I have made a point of not listening to this song too much to avoid skipping it when the album comes out. From the few times I've listened to it I have really liked it, and it gets better with each listen. The drums sound OUTSTANDING. It's almost like going from HD to 4K resolution but with sound compared to previous albums. I think the best thing I can say is that it doesn't feel like a single. It feels like a mini-epic, and while there are familiar elements, I couldn't guess where the song was going, which is something I couldn't say about OTBOA, TEI, or UA. Even after sporadic repeated listens I'm not anticipating anything.
Petrucci's solo is tasty. No one does shred and melodies like this guy. I also hope there is a bit of intention in the similarity with PBD in the first verse. I love nuggets like that: two songs about space sharing a hint of something but being completely unique. I'm sure it's accidental but if not then this hits me where I live.
If this is a hint of where the album is going: fasten your seatbelts.
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Really cool drum breakdown video from a fan here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC3tiQqyICQ
This guy knows his stuff, and it's cool how, with various passages, he kind of breaks down different ways of annotating the time signatures and how they "feel" to a drummer (and the rest of the band).
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And he studied under Mangini! What I like about the breakdown is he did this only on his second listen, so he was really trying to figure it out and not just pretending to.
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Really cool drum breakdown video from a fan here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC3tiQqyICQ
This guy knows his stuff, and it's cool how, with various passages, he kind of breaks down different ways of annotating the time signatures and how they "feel" to a drummer (and the rest of the band).
Knew it was him before even clicking the link. Amazing channel, huge recommendation for any musician, not just drummers.
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I've heard the song a few times now and apart from " ALLLIIENNN " chorus - nothing really sticks in my memory. As others have said It's just 'ok'.
I'm sure it'll get more familiar when the album comes out.
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Well, when I heard my 8 year old son started humming the outro solo (and continues to this day), that was my validation that this song has a melodic hook. :rollin
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Well, when I heard my 8 year old son started hummong the outro solo (and continues to this day), that was my validation that thisnsong has a melodic hook. :rollin
That's awesome! :coolio
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I haven't been able to stop thinking about the lyrics. I think the whole song is one big metaphor about us as people.
We see others as "alien" because they are different. In any way. Our judgements - ..not just the biggie popular ones of say sexuality, but politics, music - anything that causes us to see others as not right..but Alien. But this judging has turned us into the "alien" . Our holy grail of (arguing, anger, cancel) needs redefining. He's inviting us to climb aboard - to search until we find a new way to treat one another, a different scale of consciousness.
I couldn't stop thinking in this vein, because of a couple of conversations I have had with James and listening to him in interviews etc.
Anyway, just my thoughts.
One of the many things I love about DT. Not only can we take their music and have different ideas from it, but it isn't rude or profane either.
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I haven't been able to stop thinking about the lyrics. I think the whole song is one big metaphor about us as people.
We see others as "alien" because they are different. In any way. Our judgements - ..not just the biggie popular ones of say sexuality, but politics, music - anything that causes us to see others as not right..but Alien. But this judging has turned us into the "alien" . Our holy grail of (arguing, anger, cancel) needs redefining. He's inviting us to climb aboard - to search until we find a new way to treat one another, a different scale of consciousness.
I couldn't stop thinking in this vein, because of a couple of conversations I have had with James and listening to him in interviews etc.
Anyway, just my thoughts.
One of the many things I love about DT. Not only can we take their music and have different ideas from it, but it isn't rude or profane either.
It's like the colonization of the Americas. That lifestyle and culture is/was Alien to the Native People and their lifestyle and culture.
Only this time, The astronaut is the colonizer of another world and comes to find that out there in that other world, he is The Alien. Just as if another being were to come into our world as an Alien.
I like your description because it gives a different perspective on the ending lyrics...I am the Alien, out here discovering, for our human race and beyond. Almost like how being here in the Earth, you are still an Alien as we do not know everything there is to know about the Earth, and a connection to the Earth that keeps us grounded as Earthlings and not an Alien to the world itself. :)
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I just re-watched MM's playthrough of the Alien @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFx19PMxGTc
Such a sick drum track and it really makes the song for me. The craziest part is how easy he makes it look. He possesses a level of limb coordination that is rare. I hope the rest of the album has drums like this.
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How hilarious it would be if the remaining 60 minutes of the new album were all 4/4 Phil Rudd backbeats... :rollin
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How hilarious it would be if the remaining 60 minutes of the new album were all 4/4 Phil Rudd backbeats... :rollin
Apparently, he used to play Back In Black for his students the first time they had classes with him at Berklee :rollin
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How hilarious it would be if the remaining 60 minutes of the new album were all 4/4 Phil Rudd backbeats... :rollin
Apparently, he used to play Back In Black for his students the first time they had classes with him at Berklee :rollin
Is that right? Wow!
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" And over the next 3 semesters i'm gonna teach you all 10,746 ways you can play the bass drum in the first measure of that song. "
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" And over the next 3 semesters i'm gonna teach you all 10,746 ways you can play the bass drum in the first measure of that song. "
:lol :lol :lol
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How hilarious it would be if the remaining 60 minutes of the new album were all 4/4 Phil Rudd backbeats... :rollin
Apparently, he used to play Back In Black for his students the first time they had classes with him at Berklee :rollin
Is that right? Wow!
I think this traces back to his experience playing the first time with Annihilator. Jeff Waters was a stickler of playing exactly on the beat and what happened was when Mangini was playing the fills and the complex stuff, he was hitting it but when he was doing the basic 4/4 AC/DC style, he was hitting a few milliseconds off and Jeff can hear it. Mangini was made to repeat it over and over again and he was hospitalized afterwards.
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How hilarious it would be if the remaining 60 minutes of the new album were all 4/4 Phil Rudd backbeats... :rollin
Apparently, he used to play Back In Black for his students the first time they had classes with him at Berklee :rollin
Is that right? Wow!
I think this traces back to his experience playing the first time with Annihilator. Jeff Waters was a stickler of playing exactly on the beat and what happened was when Mangini was playing the fills and the complex stuff, he was hitting it but when he was doing the basic 4/4 AC/DC style, he was hitting a few milliseconds off and Jeff can hear it. Mangini was made to repeat it over and over again and he was hospitalized afterwards.
I remember him talking about that experience in-depth on a recent podcast (Breaking Absolutes) and I was taken aback by how candid he was regarding his percieved flaws and the work he has put in over the years to make himself the best drummer he can be.
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Really cool drum breakdown video from a fan here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC3tiQqyICQ
This guy knows his stuff, and it's cool how, with various passages, he kind of breaks down different ways of annotating the time signatures and how they "feel" to a drummer (and the rest of the band).
Crowder is great. His videos are fantastic, and I love the music he makes with Adam Neely as well (Sungazer).
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Side note: Jeff Waters is a fantastic guitar player. Kind of a shame that Annihilator never quite hit the potential that Alice In Hell showed.
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Speaking of Alice... Alice Cooper is touring again. I can't imagine being 73 and still touring. I know they still want to and love it etc etc.
But i'm really healthy and 42 and I still ache after a long day. I can't imagine how he feels the next day after a gig or after a tour.
Same with the Stones or the AC/DC guys.
Mind you it's only 90 - 120 mins actually on stage and the rest of the day is probably spent getting as much rest / leisure time as they can...
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Speaking of Alice... Alice Cooper is touring again. I can't imagine being 73 and still touring. I know they still want to and love it etc etc.
But i'm really healthy and 42 and I still ache after a long day. I can't imagine how he feels the next day after a gig or after a tour.
Same with the Stones or the AC/DC guys.
Mind you it's only 90 - 120 mins actually on stage and the rest of the day is probably spent getting as much rest / leisure time as they can...
I can imagine being retired and boating on a lake.
But where some of these musicians are concerned, maybe Alice needs the money? He grew up in the era where musical acts got royally (literally speaking) fucked. It happened to a lot of these acts back in the day. And to top this, a lot of musicians squandered their money. Look at Guns and Roses. They squandered tons of money because of Axel's ridiculous antics during their tours causing them to extend tours. So maybe Alice has to work to live the lifestyle he wants because let's face it, the only way most people will care, is when he is not longer with us.
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Speaking of Alice... Alice Cooper is touring again. I can't imagine being 73 and still touring. I know they still want to and love it etc etc.
But i'm really healthy and 42 and I still ache after a long day. I can't imagine how he feels the next day after a gig or after a tour.
Same with the Stones or the AC/DC guys.
Mind you it's only 90 - 120 mins actually on stage and the rest of the day is probably spent getting as much rest / leisure time as they can...
I can imagine being retired and boating on a lake.
But where some of these musicians are concerned, maybe Alice needs the money? He grew up in the era where musical acts got royally (literally speaking) fucked. It happened to a lot of these acts back in the day. And to top this, a lot of musicians squandered their money. Look at Guns and Roses. They squandered tons of money because of Axel's ridiculous antics during their tours causing them to extend tours. So maybe Alice has to work to live the lifestyle he wants because let's face it, the only way most people will care, is when he is not longer with us.
That's a great point to raise. But I would guess that that doesn't fit Alice, given that he just seems to be so together and has been known for giving financial and other advice to other musicians. But I could be wrong. :dunno:
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Speaking of Alice... Alice Cooper is touring again. I can't imagine being 73 and still touring. I know they still want to and love it etc etc.
But i'm really healthy and 42 and I still ache after a long day. I can't imagine how he feels the next day after a gig or after a tour.
Same with the Stones or the AC/DC guys.
Mind you it's only 90 - 120 mins actually on stage and the rest of the day is probably spent getting as much rest / leisure time as they can...
I think touring at 73 is different for him (or rockstars in general) than us. They have personal trainers, nutritionists and probably a masseuse working for them. All the stuff to help you survive a lot easier.
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Speaking of Alice... Alice Cooper is touring again. I can't imagine being 73 and still touring. I know they still want to and love it etc etc.
But i'm really healthy and 42 and I still ache after a long day. I can't imagine how he feels the next day after a gig or after a tour.
Same with the Stones or the AC/DC guys.
Mind you it's only 90 - 120 mins actually on stage and the rest of the day is probably spent getting as much rest / leisure time as they can...
I think touring at 73 is different for him (or rockstars in general) than us. They have personal trainers, nutritionists and probably a masseuse working for them. All the stuff to help you survive a lot easier.
I think there are way too many people that STILL don't appreciate him.
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Paul McCartney doesn't need the money and was on tour until COVID got in the way.
It's his life. That simple.
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Joe Paterno (legendary Penn State football coach) famously said he would coach as long as he could, because he believed if he stopped it would be like dying for him. He was forced out (scandal) on November 9, 2011 at age 84, and died not even three months later on January 22, 2012 at age 85.
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Just realized how similar the first two minutes of this song are to ITPOE... If this means that the title track will be similar to ITPOE, then I'm as hyped as possible for the album
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I knew it sounded familiar but it's a touch more upbeat than In The Presence Part 1.
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There were ITPOE bits on LTE3 as well.
Maybe it's time for that 1-5 year break.
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5 year break for guys pushing into their 60s? JR would almost be 70 by then? Just stop listening if you don't like their music anymore.
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There were ITPOE bits on LTE3 as well.
Maybe it's time for that 1-5 year break.
For you or the band?
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Lolz their music would have to be seriously verging on unlistenable for me to stop caring about the band.
A more run-of-the-mill Dream Theater album is still vastly preferable to The Offspring's new album or Foo Fighters Concrete and Gold where they're borderline unlistenable.
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5 year break for guys pushing into their 60s? JR would almost be 70 by then? Just stop listening if you don't like their music anymore.
Seriously.
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There were ITPOE bits on LTE3 as well.
Maybe it's time for that 1-5 year break.
For you or the band?
I've taken multiple breaks from the band since I first got into them nearly 20 years ago, but I nearly gave up on them after DT12, and then The Astonishing came out and besides a few solid cuts, the bloat of it all really soured my mood on the band and the fall out of MP leaving, the band's reaction to him leaving, all that drama, has left a lingering bitter taste in my mouth. My expectations for their new material has been at an all time low. I enjoyed DoT when it first came out because of that, but after the honeymoon period I realized DoT was just a slightly better DT12 but without a side-long epic. I still keep up because they DO put out a cool song here and there, and I respect their musicianship. I stick around here because I like the discussion of other bands with members of this forum.
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5 year break for guys pushing into their 60s? JR would almost be 70 by then? Just stop listening if you don't like their music anymore.
Seriously.
Well, doing it 11 years ago would have made more sense from that standpoint.
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5 year break for guys pushing into their 60s? JR would almost be 70 by then? Just stop listening if you don't like their music anymore.
The two points are not directly related. I can list the number of bands that either admitted they needed a break, or in hindsight wished they had taken a break and I'll be here through dinner time. For me, there is almost no correlation between "if the band needed a break" and "whether I like their music anymore".
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I am not seeing any indication anyone in the band is unhappy, letting his musicianship or technique slip, or slacking in any way. Not sure why they should take a break because of one single which is getting a lukewarm reception.
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I am not seeing any indication anyone in the band is unhappy, letting his musicianship or technique slip, or slacking in any way. Not sure why they should take a break because of one single which is getting a lukewarm reception.
Because fans always know what's better for the band's health.
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There were ITPOE bits on LTE3 as well.
Maybe it's time for that 1-5 year break.
For you or the band?
I've taken multiple breaks from the band since I first got into them nearly 20 years ago, but I nearly gave up on them after DT12, and then The Astonishing came out and besides a few solid cuts, the bloat of it all really soured my mood on the band and the fall out of MP leaving, the band's reaction to him leaving, all that drama, has left a lingering bitter taste in my mouth. My expectations for their new material has been at an all time low. I enjoyed DoT when it first came out because of that, but after the honeymoon period I realized DoT was just a slightly better DT12 but without a side-long epic. I still keep up because they DO put out a cool song here and there, and I respect their musicianship. I stick around here because I like the discussion of other bands with members of this forum.
Look mate, to each his own, I just don’t really find I need to take breaks from bands I enjoy. I will absolutely have periods where I listen to other stuff a bunch, or bits and pieces as I go, but I never felt the need to actively take a break from listening to the band (or any band for that matter).
I can comfortably say that the period from TOT - BCASL is my least favourite of the band, however, there are still some songs I love on those albums, so I just listen to those. Occasionally there will be a track from that period I haven’t heard for a while and if it randomly comes up I’ll be like “that actually sounds better than I remember. But overall, there is stuff on every album I enjoy.
The only thing that does seem evident from your post, is that it seems like you are almost going into their new stuff almost not wanting to like it, or going in with a negative vibe. In my experience, that will almost always result in not enjoying something as much, because even if there is stuff that you like the sound of, the things that you don’t like as much will be highlighted, to almost “prove it to yourself” if you will. It absolutely could be that you flat out just don’t like it and that’s also fair however. But from what you’ve said in terms of the Astonishing and the Mike Portnoy thing, it appears deeper than that. In any case, all due respect, I hope you find something to enjoy with the new album :tup
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5 year break for guys pushing into their 60s? JR would almost be 70 by then? Just stop listening if you don't like their music anymore.
The two points are not directly related. I can list the number of bands that either admitted they needed a break, or in hindsight wished they had taken a break and I'll be here through dinner time. For me, there is almost no correlation between "if the band needed a break" and "whether I like their music anymore".
Oh there is for a lot of people here, because it almost always felt like "I don't like their music now, so I think they should take a break so they can make music I like again."
In the end, it is really just about not liking their music and projecting it as something the band "needs."
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There were ITPOE bits on LTE3 as well.
Maybe it's time for that 1-5 year break.
I don't like your recent posts. Maybe it's time for 5 year break.
:lol
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There were ITPOE bits on LTE3 as well.
Maybe it's time for that 1-5 year break.
For you or the band?
I've taken multiple breaks from the band since I first got into them nearly 20 years ago, but I nearly gave up on them after DT12, and then The Astonishing came out and besides a few solid cuts, the bloat of it all really soured my mood on the band and the fall out of MP leaving, the band's reaction to him leaving, all that drama, has left a lingering bitter taste in my mouth. My expectations for their new material has been at an all time low. I enjoyed DoT when it first came out because of that, but after the honeymoon period I realized DoT was just a slightly better DT12 but without a side-long epic. I still keep up because they DO put out a cool song here and there, and I respect their musicianship. I stick around here because I like the discussion of other bands with members of this forum.
Look mate, to each his own, I just don’t really find I need to take breaks from bands I enjoy. I will absolutely have periods where I listen to other stuff a bunch, or bits and pieces as I go, but I never felt the need to actively take a break from listening to the band (or any band for that matter).
I can comfortably say that the period from TOT - BCASL is my least favourite of the band, however, there are still some songs I love on those albums, so I just listen to those. Occasionally there will be a track from that period I haven’t heard for a while and if it randomly comes up I’ll be like “that actually sounds better than I remember. But overall, there is stuff on every album I enjoy.
The only thing that does seem evident from your post, is that it seems like you are almost going into their new stuff almost not wanting to like it, or going in with a negative vibe. In my experience, that will almost always result in not enjoying something as much, because even if there is stuff that you like the sound of, the things that you don’t like as much will be highlighted, to almost “prove it to yourself” if you will. It absolutely could be that you flat out just don’t like it and that’s also fair however. But from what you’ve said in terms of the Astonishing and the Mike Portnoy thing, it appears deeper than that. In any case, all due respect, I hope you find something to enjoy with the new album :tup
Not only have I taken a break from DT in the past, I've taken breaks from all prog rock related music for years at a time. There's too much music out there to stick to listening to only prog rock/metal, or rock/metal in general, for me at least. I totally enjoy ADTOE, and went into DT12 with a positive attitude before it came out. I just get a cold, clinical feeling from the newer material, and also sense a lack of compositional chops from the band, who come up with tons of interesting ideas, but don't seem totally sure how to put it all together since MP left, unless it involves arrangements that were already done in the past with greater results, with rare exceptions.
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There were ITPOE bits on LTE3 as well.
Maybe it's time for that 1-5 year break.
I don't like your recent posts. Maybe it's time for 5 year break.
:lol
If you take the time to look at my posts, you'll notice I didn't post here for years at a time, sans an occasional post.
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There were ITPOE bits on LTE3 as well.
Maybe it's time for that 1-5 year break.
For you or the band?
I've taken multiple breaks from the band since I first got into them nearly 20 years ago, but I nearly gave up on them after DT12, and then The Astonishing came out and besides a few solid cuts, the bloat of it all really soured my mood on the band and the fall out of MP leaving, the band's reaction to him leaving, all that drama, has left a lingering bitter taste in my mouth. My expectations for their new material has been at an all time low. I enjoyed DoT when it first came out because of that, but after the honeymoon period I realized DoT was just a slightly better DT12 but without a side-long epic. I still keep up because they DO put out a cool song here and there, and I respect their musicianship. I stick around here because I like the discussion of other bands with members of this forum.
Look mate, to each his own, I just don’t really find I need to take breaks from bands I enjoy. I will absolutely have periods where I listen to other stuff a bunch, or bits and pieces as I go, but I never felt the need to actively take a break from listening to the band (or any band for that matter).
I can comfortably say that the period from TOT - BCASL is my least favourite of the band, however, there are still some songs I love on those albums, so I just listen to those. Occasionally there will be a track from that period I haven’t heard for a while and if it randomly comes up I’ll be like “that actually sounds better than I remember. But overall, there is stuff on every album I enjoy.
The only thing that does seem evident from your post, is that it seems like you are almost going into their new stuff almost not wanting to like it, or going in with a negative vibe. In my experience, that will almost always result in not enjoying something as much, because even if there is stuff that you like the sound of, the things that you don’t like as much will be highlighted, to almost “prove it to yourself” if you will. It absolutely could be that you flat out just don’t like it and that’s also fair however. But from what you’ve said in terms of the Astonishing and the Mike Portnoy thing, it appears deeper than that. In any case, all due respect, I hope you find something to enjoy with the new album :tup
Not only have I taken a break from DT in the past, I've taken breaks from all prog rock related music for years at a time. There's too much music out there to stick to listening to only prog rock/metal, or rock/metal in general, for me at least. I totally enjoy ADTOE, and went into DT12 with a positive attitude before it came out. I just get a cold, clinical feeling from the newer material, and also sense a lack of compositional chops from the band, who come up with tons of interesting ideas, but don't seem totally sure how to put it all together since MP left, unless it involves arrangements that were already done in the past with greater results, with rare exceptions.
Fair enough too mate - as I say, not every album is for everyone and we’re all a bit different. For what you feel has become somewhat clinical with their new stuff, that’s the exact way I felt about MP’s last 4 albums. It’s what makes us all different.
All I know is, I like what I like, and I don’t worry about expectations or what has happened with past members in the band etc. I just go for music that is pleasing to my ears, and for me, I feel super lucky to have that in abundance with the newer material. I actually love The Astonishing, and I feel it is musically and compositionally fantastic. And to me, DoT doesn’t sound anything like DT12 - it just sounds like DoT - it’s own entity - which still gets regular spins for me. I don’t really get the feeling of sourness or bitterness - again, Black Clouds is easily my least favourite and I pretty much only really like The Count. But that’s ok, I just listen to that and the plethora of other music I love from the band. Totally all good tho, and I definitely appreciate your own explanation of feeling different.
Agree with music in general though - there’s some great stuff to enjoy from so many genres. I must say though, when some of the young crew come into my work and put on their playlists, I look at them disgusted and remind them they “all need more guitar solos in their dreary lives” ;D
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jayvee3, reading your latest posts, about last couple of albums with MP and their music now... I'd say, feel it same way.
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People and tastes evolve over time. Also people connect to others differently. MP obviously had a special connection to a significant portion of the fanbase, that will likely associate his departure with any perceived change in DT's style or arrangements.
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This song is just better and better with each listen. I listened with IM following. After, I really wanted to hear TA again. Feeling kind of epic-y.
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Listened to the track again and I still think it's a masterpiece. One thing that occurs to me is that even though not all their lyrics are "artistic", the content is often very prescient and relevant
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Agree with music in general though - there’s some great stuff to enjoy from so many genres. I must say though, when some of the young crew come into my work and put on their playlists, I look at them disgusted and remind them they “all need more guitar solos in their dreary lives” ;D
I enjoy music regardless of genre or style, and I enjoy some "mainstream" stuff when it's good. IMO kids/teens listen to substandard music on the whole, but that was going on when I was a teenager too, and before I was born. I find a lot of popular music from the 50s-90s to be pretty crappy or corny or just plain bad to my tastes too, but I do think its worse today than ever though, as even in the 50s/60s/70s/80s/90s there were still a good amount of decent songs and albums that were popular. Everything now that isn't approved music by iHeart radio and other corporate entities, is divided into niche audiences.
The irony is we have access to at least 90% of all music for free at our fingertips and younger people generally stick to the same 0.05% of music that usually falls under "mainstream" music. There is little to no rock-related music in the mainstream these days, rock has gone the way of jazz, and hip-hop is not far behind, (the best stuff is underground now) nor is much of it performed by actual players, and if it is, it's processed to all hell, and with rare exception, all sounds the same, and showcases little to no musicianship from the players.
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Agree with music in general though - there’s some great stuff to enjoy from so many genres. I must say though, when some of the young crew come into my work and put on their playlists, I look at them disgusted and remind them they “all need more guitar solos in their dreary lives” ;D
I enjoy music regardless of genre or style, and I enjoy some "mainstream" stuff when it's good. IMO kids/teens listen to substandard music on the whole, but that was going on when I was a teenager too, and before I was born. I find a lot of popular music from the 50s-90s to be pretty crappy or corny or just plain bad to my tastes too, but I do think its worse today than ever though, as even in the 50s/60s/70s/80s/90s there were still a good amount of decent songs and albums that were popular. Everything now that isn't approved music by iHeart radio and other corporate entities, is divided into niche audiences.
The irony is we have access to at least 90% of all music for free at our fingertips and younger people generally stick to the same 0.05% of music that usually falls under "mainstream" music. There is little to no rock-related music in the mainstream these days, rock has gone the way of jazz, and hip-hop is not far behind, (the best stuff is underground now) nor is much of it performed by actual players, and if it is, it's processed to all hell, and with rare exception, all sounds the same, and showcases little to no musicianship from the players.
Yea, I agree with all of that. I have so many young crew come into my work and crank their playlists - they enjoy it and it keeps them coming back, but there is just such little variety. If there is some music that gets played that challenges what they have been accustomed to listen to, they simply just can't get their head around it. I'm old and have grown up with so many styles and influences, I just have a good chuckle to myself ;D
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Agree with music in general though - there’s some great stuff to enjoy from so many genres. I must say though, when some of the young crew come into my work and put on their playlists, I look at them disgusted and remind them they “all need more guitar solos in their dreary lives” ;D
I enjoy music regardless of genre or style, and I enjoy some "mainstream" stuff when it's good. IMO kids/teens listen to substandard music on the whole, but that was going on when I was a teenager too, and before I was born. I find a lot of popular music from the 50s-90s to be pretty crappy or corny or just plain bad to my tastes too, but I do think its worse today than ever though, as even in the 50s/60s/70s/80s/90s there were still a good amount of decent songs and albums that were popular. Everything now that isn't approved music by iHeart radio and other corporate entities, is divided into niche audiences.
The irony is we have access to at least 90% of all music for free at our fingertips and younger people generally stick to the same 0.05% of music that usually falls under "mainstream" music. There is little to no rock-related music in the mainstream these days, rock has gone the way of jazz, and hip-hop is not far behind, (the best stuff is underground now) nor is much of it performed by actual players, and if it is, it's processed to all hell, and with rare exception, all sounds the same, and showcases little to no musicianship from the players.
Sounds like NOMACS are not far off. As people don't have the time for music and only listen to what the NOMACS create.
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Agree with music in general though - there’s some great stuff to enjoy from so many genres. I must say though, when some of the young crew come into my work and put on their playlists, I look at them disgusted and remind them they “all need more guitar solos in their dreary lives” ;D
I enjoy music regardless of genre or style, and I enjoy some "mainstream" stuff when it's good. IMO kids/teens listen to substandard music on the whole, but that was going on when I was a teenager too, and before I was born. I find a lot of popular music from the 50s-90s to be pretty crappy or corny or just plain bad to my tastes too, but I do think its worse today than ever though, as even in the 50s/60s/70s/80s/90s there were still a good amount of decent songs and albums that were popular. Everything now that isn't approved music by iHeart radio and other corporate entities, is divided into niche audiences.
The irony is we have access to at least 90% of all music for free at our fingertips and younger people generally stick to the same 0.05% of music that usually falls under "mainstream" music. There is little to no rock-related music in the mainstream these days, rock has gone the way of jazz, and hip-hop is not far behind, (the best stuff is underground now) nor is much of it performed by actual players, and if it is, it's processed to all hell, and with rare exception, all sounds the same, and showcases little to no musicianship from the players.
Sounds like NOMACS are not far off. As people don't have the time for music and only listen to what the NOMACS create.
I guess you could say people just don't have the time for music anymore... and no one seems to care ;D