"Official" Lost Not Forgotten (official bootlegs) thread

[Max Kuehnau]

Yes they were

[TAC]

That's the Old Bridge show for sure, and it was the setlist for that short tour.

BTW, if anyone does not have this, this is a must get.

[devieira73]

with the notable difference and exception that OIAL was heavily shortened and never in the actual concert order (look at Porty's concert database for the setlist and you'll see) and the Old Bridge show actually was an entire show

Also all the FII songs are in their demo arrangements and Metropolis and LTL are with alternative solo sections. It's really an interesting show to have!

[HOF]

with the notable difference and exception that OIAL was heavily shortened and never in the actual concert order (look at Porty's concert database for the setlist and you'll see) and the Old Bridge show actually was an entire show

Also all the FII songs are in their demo arrangements and Metropolis and LTL are with alternative solo sections. It's really an interesting show to have!

Is it the full Metropolis and Learning to Live, or did they medley them like on OIALT?

[devieira73]

Both full

[HOF]

Both full

Nice! May have to check this one out.

[Ben_Jamin]

This was the last Ytsejam release I bought. I am glad I did because I just bought it for Take Away My Pain live and the rest of the set is great.

[ZirconBlue]

Are these songs recorded live in New Jersey, in 1996? I am not sure. Could they not have just put that as a subtitle and not have to include it in every single track?

Spotify does this all the time.  While it's annoying within an album, I suppose it's useful if you're listening to a playlist or a random shuffle of songs.

[Setlist Scotty]

Both full

Nice! May have to check this one out.

Another reason is for the version of CiaW that they did on that tour, which was known as "Caught In Alice's Nine Inch Tool Garden". It ended up providing the initial seeds for what ended up becoming New Millennium.

As Timmeh said, this is definitely one to get!

[TAC]

This is a great show, and this tour was the first one that my wife came with me too. I love how it previews the '04 version of The Killing Hand and the '06 version of Learning To Live.

This early version of Lines In The Sand is ..interesting. MP rules this show.

And the best version of Take Away My Pain.

[Hypnotherapist]

Here's the set list for the night (according to Setlist.fm):
1 . A Change of Seasons: I The Crimson Sunrise
2 . A Change of Seasons: II Innocence
3 . The Mirror
4 . Lie
5 . Burning My Soul
6 . Another Hand /
7 . The Killing Hand
8 . Just Let Me Breathe
9 . Caught in a New Millennium (Caught in Alice's New Nine- Inch Millennium Tool Garden)
10 . Peruvian Skies
11 . Pull Me Under (sans intro)
12 . Lines in the Sand
13 . Take Away My Pain
14 . A Change of Seasons: III Carpe Diem
15 . A Change of Seasons: IV The Darkest of Winters
16 . The Ytse Jam
17 . Learning to Live
18 . A Change of Seasons: VII The Crimson Sunset
Encore:
19 . Metropolis Pt. 1: The Miracle and the Sleeper
(Damage, Inc. jam in ending)

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/dream-theater/1996/birch-hill-nite-club-old-bridge-nj-23d6cc4f.html

[Stadler]

So here's one for you all....

So the b-sides to the Hollow Years single in Japan included "Burning My Soul" and "Another Hand/The Killing Hand" allegedly from that show. I don't recall the differences now, but when I compared them last, they were different.  Are they not from that night?  Did they touch up either the b-sides or the full show?  Anyone know?

[pg1067]

That's the Old Bridge show for sure, and it was the setlist for that short tour.

BTW, if anyone does not have this, this is a must get.

Why?  As Max noted, with the exception of The Mirror and TKH (and Burning My Soul, which is only on the DVD), all of this stuff is on Once in a Livetime (and the version of TKH on Live at the Marquee is infinitely superior than anything that would have been done in 1996).

Unless there's something special here, I'm not inclined to plunk down for a show supporting one of my least favorite albums and which is similar to something that already exists.

[Max Kuehnau]

That's the Old Bridge show for sure, and it was the setlist for that short tour.

BTW, if anyone does not have this, this is a must get.

Why?  As Max noted, with the exception of The Mirror and TKH (and Burning My Soul, which is only on the DVD), all of this stuff is on Once in a Livetime (and the version of TKH on Live at the Marquee is infinitely superior than anything that would have been done in 1996).

Unless there's something special here, I'm not inclined to plunk down for a show supporting one of my least favorite albums and which is similar to something that already exists.

IIRC, the version of Burning My Soul was the original demo version that day (meaning, not the one that was tampered with in various ways for FII)

[ZirconBlue]

Why?  As Max noted, with the exception of The Mirror and TKH (and Burning My Soul, which is only on the DVD), all of this stuff is on Once in a Livetime (and the version of TKH on Live at the Marquee is infinitely superior than anything that would have been done in 1996).

Unless there's something special here, I'm not inclined to plunk down for a show supporting one of my least favorite albums and which is similar to something that already exists.

Strong disagree on TKH.  This version is superior. 

[ZirconBlue]

So here's one for you all....

So the b-sides to the Hollow Years single in Japan included "Burning My Soul" and "Another Hand/The Killing Hand" allegedly from that show. I don't recall the differences now, but when I compared them last, they were different.  Are they not from that night?  Did they touch up either the b-sides or the full show?  Anyone know?

There's some slight difference on TKH.  Just before his entrance on the sing b-side, James says something like, "Mike, you want to do this?".  This is not heard on the official bootleg, but other than some minor mix/master differences they are otherwise the same.

[Setlist Scotty]

As Max noted, with the exception of The Mirror and TKH (and Burning My Soul, which is only on the DVD), all of this stuff is on Once in a Livetime (and the version of TKH on Live at the Marquee is infinitely superior than anything that would have been done in 1996).

Unless there's something special here, I'm not inclined to plunk down for a show supporting one of my least favorite albums and which is similar to something that already exists.

Might wanna re-read these posts - there are several reasons:

Also all the FII songs are in their demo arrangements and Metropolis and LTL are with alternative solo sections. It's really an interesting show to have!

Is it the full Metropolis and Learning to Live, or did they medley them like on OIALT?

Both full

Another reason is for the version of CiaW that they did on that tour, which was known as "Caught In Alice's Nine Inch Tool Garden".

...and that's in addition to the demo arrangements of BMS, LitS and TAMP which some fans feel are superior to what ended up on the album.

I agree with ZirconBlue - the version of TKH on the official 96 boot is better, aside from JL's vocals which should be expected since they were re-recorded in the studio.

But if you don't think it's worth it don't bother. At the very least, you'll be able to check it out on Spotify and I'm sure it's probably already somewhere on YT and can decide whether to get it or not. But IMO it's great for all the variations from the official album versions.

[pg1067]

Well...to each his own, but full versions of songs for which I already have several full versions isn't a selling point.  And, as I've made pretty clear, I don't care for the non-album versions of FII songs.

As far as TKH, I looked to see if the Old Bridge version was on YouTube, and it doesn't appear to be.  However, there is a recording from the Toad's Place show a week earlier, and I assume that's roughly the same arrangement.  Obviously, it's a boot, so I'm sure the recording quality isn't as good as the CD, but I don't hear anything that makes it better than the LATM version, and James's vocals are THE critical part of the song (for me at least).  There's also a bunch of extended instrumental noodling, including a nod to Carol of the Bells, which probably would have been cool if I were there, but which is nothing special on a recording.

But if you don't think it's worth it don't bother.

That's why I asked the question.

[gzarruk]

There's also a bunch of extended instrumental noodling, including a nod to Carol of the Bells, which probably would have been cool if I were there, but which is nothing special on a recording.

I always wondered why they randomly decided to play some Carol of the Bells in the middle of TKH. Was there a special reason for this? Did they first do it for Christmas season shows? Not that I don't enjoy it, just asking why.

Also, an opinion that nobody asked for, but I, too, prefer the LATM version

[pg1067]

There's also a bunch of extended instrumental noodling, including a nod to Carol of the Bells, which probably would have been cool if I were there, but which is nothing special on a recording.

I always wondered why they randomly decided to play some Carol of the Bells in the middle of TKH. Was there a special reason for this? Did they first do it for Christmas season shows? Not that I don't enjoy it, just asking why.

Also, an opinion that nobody asked for, but I, too, prefer the LATM version

The Old Bridge and Toad's Place shows were two of the five shows known as "The Fix for '96" between Dec. 4-14, 1996.  MP no longer has the FAQ pages on his website (or if he does, I can't find them), but if I remember correctly, these shows were done to stay fresh while they were waiting to get the green light for recording FII (they hadn't played live since December 1995, so they were itching to play).  Since the shows were shortly before Christmas, then threw some Christmas music, which I believe was not uncommon back then for shows in December.

[Hypnotherapist]

There's also a bunch of extended instrumental noodling, including a nod to Carol of the Bells, which probably would have been cool if I were there, but which is nothing special on a recording.

I always wondered why they randomly decided to play some Carol of the Bells in the middle of TKH. Was there a special reason for this? Did they first do it for Christmas season shows? Not that I don't enjoy it, just asking why.

Also, an opinion that nobody asked for, but I, too, prefer the LATM version

The Old Bridge and Toad's Place shows were two of the five shows known as "The Fix for '96" between Dec. 4-14, 1996.  MP no longer has the FAQ pages on his website (or if he does, I can't find them), but if I remember correctly, these shows were done to stay fresh while they were waiting to get the green light for recording FII (they hadn't played live since December 1995, so they were itching to play).  Since the shows were shortly before Christmas, then threw some Christmas music, which I believe was not uncommon back then for shows in December.

I think these are here:

THE FIX FOR '96 SHOWS

12/04/1996 Poughkeepsie, NY, USA

Venue:   The Chance
Other Act(s):   Rudess/Morgenstein Opened

Set List:
The Crimson Sunrise/
Innocence/
The Mirror/
Lie
Burning My Soul '96
Another Hand/
The Killing Hand '96
Just Let Me Breathe
Caught In Alice'S 9-Inch Tool Garden
Peruvian Skies/
Pull Me Under (Sans Intro)
Lines In The Sand'96
Take Away My Pain'96
Carpe Diem (Instrumental)/
The Darkest Of Winters/
Ytsejam/
Learning To Live'96/
The Crimson Sunset (W/ A Fortune In Lies Teaser)
~~~Encore~~~
Metropolis Pt 1 '96
Eve (Outro Tape)
---------------------------------------------------------
12/05/1996 Wantaugh, Long Island, NY, USA

Venue:   Mulcahey'S
Other Act(s):   Einstein Opened

Set List:
The Crimson Sunrise/
Innocence/
The Mirror/
Lie
Burning My Soul'96
Another Hand/
The Killing Hand'96
Just Let Me Breathe
Caught In Alice'S 9-Inch Tool Garden
Peruvian Skies/
Pull Me Under (Sans Intro)
Lines In The Sand'96
Take Away My Pain'96
Carpe Diem (Instrumental)/
The Darkest Of Winters/
Ytsejam/
Learning To Live '96/
The Crimson Sunset (W/ A Fortune In Lies Teaser)
~~~Encore~~~
Metropolis Pt 1 '96
Eve (Outro Tape)
--------------------------------------------------------
12/06/1996 New Haven, CT, USA

Venue:   Toad'S Place
Other Act(s):   Rudess/Morgenstein Opened

Set List:
The Crimson Sunrise/
Innocence/
The Mirror/
Lie
Burning My Soul '96
Another Hand/
The Killing Hand '96
Just Let Me Breathe
Caught In Alice'S 9-Inch Tool Garden
Peruvian Skies/
Pull Me Under (Sans Intro)
Lines In The Sand '96
Take Away My Pain '96
Carpe Diem (Instrumental)/
The Darkest Of Winters/
Ytsejam/
Learning To Live '96/
The Crimson Sunset (W/ A Fortune In Lies Teaser)
~~~Encore~~~
Metropolis Pt 1 '96
Eve (Outro Tape)
--------------------------------------------------------
12/12/1996 Providence, RI, USA

Venue:   The Strand
Other Act(s):   Einstein And The Beth Hart Band Opened

Set List:
The Crimson Sunrise/
Innocence/
The Mirror/
Lie
Burning My Soul'96
Another Hand/
The Killing Hand'96
Just Let Me Breathe
Caught In Alice'S 9-Inch Tool Garden
Peruvian Skies/
Pull Me Under (Sans Intro)
Lines In The Sand '96
Take Away My Pain'96
Carpe Diem (Instrumental)/
The Darkest Of Winters/
Ytsejam/
Learning To Live '96/
The Crimson Sunset (W/ A Fortune In Lies Teaser)
Eve (Outro Tape)

Notes:   There was no encore at this show due to a curfew and that the Beth Hart Band was added to the bill at the last minute.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12/14/1996 Old Bridge, NJ, USA

Venue:   Birch Hill
Other Act(s):   Einstein Opened

Set List:
The Crimson Sunrise/
Innocence/
The Mirror/
Lie
Burning My Soul'96
Another Hand/
The Killing Hand'96
Just Let Me Breathe
Caught In Alice'S 9-Inch Tool Garden
Peruvian Skies/
Pull Me Under (Sans Intro)
Lines In The Sand '96
Take Away My Pain '96
Carpe Diem (Instrumental)/
The Darkest Of Winters/
Ytsejam/
Learning To Live '96/
The Crimson Sunset (W/ A Fortune In Lies Teaser)
~~~Encore~~~
Metropolis Pt 1 '96 (W/ One (Metallica) Teaser)

[Hypnotherapist]

And of course... the complete list can be found here:
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/tourography/ Just click on the DT icon (or any other...if interested)

[pg1067]

And of course... the complete list can be found here:
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/tourography/ Just click on the DT icon (or any other...if interested)

Just to be clear, yes, the Tourography pages are still there.  The FAQ pages were different and, as far as I can tell, are gone.  Of course, most, if not all, of what was covered in the FAQ pages was also covered in the Lifting Shadows book.

[gzarruk]

There's also a bunch of extended instrumental noodling, including a nod to Carol of the Bells, which probably would have been cool if I were there, but which is nothing special on a recording.

I always wondered why they randomly decided to play some Carol of the Bells in the middle of TKH. Was there a special reason for this? Did they first do it for Christmas season shows? Not that I don't enjoy it, just asking why.

Also, an opinion that nobody asked for, but I, too, prefer the LATM version

The Old Bridge and Toad's Place shows were two of the five shows known as "The Fix for '96" between Dec. 4-14, 1996.  MP no longer has the FAQ pages on his website (or if he does, I can't find them), but if I remember correctly, these shows were done to stay fresh while they were waiting to get the green light for recording FII (they hadn't played live since December 1995, so they were itching to play).  Since the shows were shortly before Christmas, then threw some Christmas music, which I believe was not uncommon back then for shows in December.

That makes sense, but IIRC, they kept that Christmas section when they played it later in the 2000's

[pg1067]

There's also a bunch of extended instrumental noodling, including a nod to Carol of the Bells, which probably would have been cool if I were there, but which is nothing special on a recording.

I always wondered why they randomly decided to play some Carol of the Bells in the middle of TKH. Was there a special reason for this? Did they first do it for Christmas season shows? Not that I don't enjoy it, just asking why.

Also, an opinion that nobody asked for, but I, too, prefer the LATM version

The Old Bridge and Toad's Place shows were two of the five shows known as "The Fix for '96" between Dec. 4-14, 1996.  MP no longer has the FAQ pages on his website (or if he does, I can't find them), but if I remember correctly, these shows were done to stay fresh while they were waiting to get the green light for recording FII (they hadn't played live since December 1995, so they were itching to play).  Since the shows were shortly before Christmas, then threw some Christmas music, which I believe was not uncommon back then for shows in December.

That makes sense, but IIRC, they kept that Christmas section when they played it later in the 2000's

If they did, that's weird because TKH has only ever been played in December at the "Fix for '96" shows and at the end of the first American leg of the I&W tour.  In the 21st century, TKH has only been played between January and August, except for one show in October and one in early November.

[Hypnotherapist]

And of course... the complete list can be found here:
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/tourography/ Just click on the DT icon (or any other...if interested)

Just to be clear, yes, the Tourography pages are still there.  The FAQ pages were different and, as far as I can tell, are gone.  Of course, most, if not all, of what was covered in the FAQ pages was also covered in the Lifting Shadows book.

It's clear, you're right.   In fact the page is not that updated but it still serves as a good reference.

[ZirconBlue]

There's also a bunch of extended instrumental noodling, including a nod to Carol of the Bells, which probably would have been cool if I were there, but which is nothing special on a recording.

I always wondered why they randomly decided to play some Carol of the Bells in the middle of TKH. Was there a special reason for this? Did they first do it for Christmas season shows? Not that I don't enjoy it, just asking why.

Also, an opinion that nobody asked for, but I, too, prefer the LATM version

The Old Bridge and Toad's Place shows were two of the five shows known as "The Fix for '96" between Dec. 4-14, 1996.  MP no longer has the FAQ pages on his website (or if he does, I can't find them), but if I remember correctly, these shows were done to stay fresh while they were waiting to get the green light for recording FII (they hadn't played live since December 1995, so they were itching to play).  Since the shows were shortly before Christmas, then threw some Christmas music, which I believe was not uncommon back then for shows in December.

That makes sense, but IIRC, they kept that Christmas section when they played it later in the 2000's

Yes.  I think they even included it on WDaDR, even though they went back to the original intro instead of Another Hand.

[TAC]

My shirt from the tour..

[Dream Team]

Is Carol of the Bells in the arrangement for the Re-Unite version from 2004?

[pg1067]

Is Carol of the Bells in the arrangement for the Re-Unite version from 2004?

Yes, starting around the 8:00 mark:  https://youtu.be/eYoeZ3U67Mg

A little weird given that this show was in March.

[TAC]

Thank you. I have literally never known what the Carol Of the Bells section was.

[Ben_Jamin]

I find it funny I never even noticed that it's Carol of The Bells. No wonder I love that part of the song in the Live versions.

[Deadeye21]

We're gonna highlight the Carol of the Bells, but not the fact that this includes part of One Last Time shortly before?

I believe they may have just liked what they did with Carol of the Bells and kept doing it. However, as it has not appeared since Portnoy left, I wonder who's idea it was to include it in the first place. Many alterations that he made to the songs have disappeared live since Mangini's arrival, so it would be interesting to see what they did with it nowadays.

[Stadler]

Is Carol of the Bells in the arrangement for the Re-Unite version from 2004?

Yes, starting around the 8:00 mark:  https://youtu.be/eYoeZ3U67Mg

A little weird given that this show was in March.

That gave me great joy watching that.

[pg1067]

We're gonna highlight the Carol of the Bells, but not the fact that this includes part of One Last Time shortly before?

Meh...I don't think it's OLT, although the chord progression on one pass sounds similar.