DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)

[TAC]

TBOT is all kinds of awesome!

[Northern Lion]

I have no problem with the "piecing together" of a song like IT (though I don't like the song much). I'd rather that approach than making sections repetitive and drawn out like songs on BC&SL. How the hell is Rite of Passage almost 9 minutes long?

This. Most songs on Black Clouds feel longer than they should. AROP, TBOT and ANTR feel like that to me, for example.

TBOT is 13:09 too long.

  Yeah, I'd have to agree.  I recently made a DT epics play list and I didn't include this one.

But, to be fair to Mike, I bet this was a really hard song for him to write.  And, considering it's connection to his father, I completely understand why it has so much meaning for him.  And I'm really glad it does.

[Cool Chris]

TBoT was, along with ARoP the two drags on that album for me when I first got it. I liked the album, but it didn't live up to (MP's) hype, and not nearly as enjoyable as I found SC. I rarely listen to it, and still rate ARoP pretty low. But I've come around on TBoT. It's not a song I am goign to go out of my way to listen to, but it's better and more enjoyable than I thought it was upon release.

[IDontNotDoThings]

How the hell is Rite of Passage almost 9 minutes long?

I know you mean that rhetorically, but I was bored earlier today, so here you go

0:00 Intro A
0:19 Intro B
0:38 Intro C

0:56 Verse 1
1:31 Pre-Chorus 1
1:49 Chorus 1
2:25 Fill
2:31 Intro B
2:50 Intro C

2:59 Verse 2
3:34 Pre-Chorus 2
3:53 Chorus 2
4:27 Fill
4:34 Intro B

4:52 Riff A
5:19 Riff B (Guitar solo starts)
5:32 Riff A
5:47 Riff C
6:00 Riff A
6:12 Riff B (Keys solo starts)
6:25 Riff A
6:40 Riff C (eeeeeerrrrrr)
6:53 Riff A (beep boop beep boop)
7:06 Transition out

7:14 Chorus 3
7:49 Fill
7:56 Intro B
8:14 Intro C

[Mladen]

I liked that song a lot when it came out, but now I find it extremely bland and unambitious. Seeing the structure like that explains my dislike for it fairly well, even though there are similarly structured tracks that at least provide more interesting melodies and riffs.

[Lonk]

A Rite of Passage has the best chorus of the whole album, followed by "hopelessly drifting" from ANTR, and the second verse has a kick-ass guitar part

[utopiarun]

For some reason I had TBOT in my head the other day, so I threw it on. It had been a long time since I listened to it and I really enjoyed it. Is it the greatest song? No, but it's good and the guitar solo at the end may be the best JP has ever done. My god, is that awesome!!

[devieira73]

TBOT is all kinds of awesome!

I think it's perfect if we cut off that slow intro. Much better begginning with that "spirit of radio intro" section.
I think that SC and BC&SL are the only DT albums that would benefit with some editions in some songs.
And TA the only DT album that would benefit with some editions in many songs.

[hunnus2000]

TBOT is all kinds of awesome!

I think it's perfect if we cut off that slow intro. Much better begginning with that "spirit of radio intro" section.
I think that SC and BC&SL are the only DT albums that would benefit with some editions in some songs.
And TA the only DT album that would benefit with some editions in many songs.

Cut off the slow intro???  Are ya daft man? That intro is what gives context to the soaring keyboard part at the 6:11 otherwise removing the intro takes all the emotion out of the song.

BTW, I was just thinking that the opening guitar riff reminded me of the beginning of "Spirit of Radio". 
I also don't know what songs would benefit from "editions". What kinds of editions?

Also, you take that back about TA!!! 

[MirrorMask]

Cut off the slow intro???  Are ya daft man? That intro is what gives context to the soaring keyboard part at the 6:11 otherwise removing the intro takes all the emotion out of the song.

Also, it serves at a nice contrast to the actual start of the song. You hear the slow and sad melody and you go "d'uh, it's a song for a father who passed away, of course it's a melanchonic ballad", and then comes that uplifting, I&W-esque riff that kicks up a rocking song that celebrate good times and fond memories (before the more melanchonic second part of course). The first time I heard it, it put such a big smile on my face!

[devieira73]

I think that slow melody on TBoT at the begginnig really drags the song right in the begginng and I think that the "Spirit of Radio riff" would open better the song. Yes, of course, I know what the song is all about, but I read some MP interview that he wanted to focus the positive/uplifiting things in his life experience with his father on this song. But, to my perception, looking the song as a whole, that sad song's begginning had left things a bit more on the saddest side of the loss.
On Black Clouds I think the ANtR and ARoP solos should have half the musical bars that they actually have, because they drag a bit because of that.
On Systematic Chaos, I think Repetence should be shorter from "the voices part" on and The Ministry of Lost Souls should have the first half shortened. I don't know exactly where to cut, but, ITPoTE pt.2 also drags a bit.
As for TA, although it's an album that I really like, it had the potential of be the best DT album ever, if they approached it to a more traditional conceptual album structure (not a rock opera one) and with more instrumental passages in a more traditional DT's style.
Of course, all of that, for my personal wish/taste which it's... totally irrelevant for the DT's creativity! .

[fadetoblackdude7]

With all due respect to JP's epic ending solo, the slow intro is my favorite part of the song. So beautiful and soothing, and IMO the violin and acoustic guitar do the melodies the most justice.

[DTA]

Nearly every song from 6DOIT through BC&SL is too long, with the exception of most of 8VM. With MP being gone, the songs have gotten back to normal, unbloated lengths leading me to believe that MP was the one pushing for extending the songs through repetition. This is pretty evident when you hear Into The Blue and Open Up Your Eyes...some parts of those songs repeat endlessly. Edited versions of Black Clouds and Systematic Chaos would probably elevate those albums quite a bit in many people's rankings. It sucks because ARoP is a solid 4 1/2 minute song and ANTR is probably a really impactful 9 minute song...but of course, EPIC = BETTER 

[Cool Chris]

... leading me to believe that MP was the one pushing for extending the songs through repetition.

I thought that was generally accepted as fact(?)

[TAC]

TBOT is all kinds of awesome!

I think it's perfect if we cut off that slow intro. Much better begginning with that "spirit of radio intro" section.

Oh man, I completely disagree. The intro is incredible. Totally sets the tone.

[MoraWintersoul]

It should be noted in this thread that James is building a home studio. While he might need it for all sorts of other projects (like his solo album, which is finally cooking properly), it's good news for DT15.

[Max Kuehnau]

It should be noted in this thread that James is building a home studio. While he might need it for all sorts of other projects (like his solo album, which is finally cooking properly), it's good news for DT15.

Cheers for the heads up, Mora. Just added it (and some other bits by JP that I missed), along with a general clean up of the title page.

[MoraWintersoul]

No problem, I should have remembered to give you a link too!

[Max Kuehnau]

JP mentions work on DT15 starting soon: https://www.instagram.com/p/CDjlmm4qGlb/

[Kotowboy]

I'm not watching that for 50 mins. What did he say ?

[Max Kuehnau]

I'm not watching that for 50 mins. What did he say ?

neither did I really. In a nutshell, he said that the scheduling for DT15 changed and that they will start working on DT15 proper in the Autumn of this year. (seeing as MM announced that he will not do any masterclasses anytime soon. So that will mean "work" will resume soon, as it were. MM stopping doing masterclasses is not what JP said though. Sorry if that may be misunderstood.)

[Max Kuehnau]

Updated to include the most recent information. (thanks Kotowboy)

[fadetoblackdude7]

Sweet! That could be as early as next month!

[gzarruk]

Sweet! That could be as early as next month!

It's interesting that they could have it ready by the end of the year and most likely released very early next year, but it's possible there won't be any touring until mid 2021 at least (nobody really knows). Would they release it anyway without any solid touring plans?

[Kotowboy]

If they are able to - I wish they would release either an in the studio DVD with the album or them playing the whole album live at their new studio.

Bands seem to have just stopped doing special editions. Or at least film it and upload it to YouTube so there's no cost involved with the manufacturing etc.

But yeah - assuming they get back together in September to write the new album - they could have it tracked by October. And out for February -

- which would be two years since Distance Over Time. But I wouldn't be surprised if they hold it back til summer 2021 when they might be able to tour it.

---

Other than that - the production on the Portnoy-less albums has improved each time more or less. They should keep the same production team as on Distance Over Time

as that album sounded great. Also why not let Mangini track his drums in his own studio so he can get the sound he wants? His drums on his own YouTube channel sound massive.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Time between the start of recording & album release (according to Wikipedia):

WD&DU: July 1988 - March 1989 (8 months)
I&W: October 1991 - July 1992 (9 months)
Awake: May 1994 - October 1994 (5 months)
FII: June 1997 - September 1997 (3 months; but the recording was delayed by the record label, so they had plenty of time to rehearse the material)
SFAM: - October 1999 ()
SDOIT: March 2001 - January 2002 (10 months; double album)
TOT: March 2003 - November 2003 (8 months)
Octavarium: November 2004 - June 2005 (7 months)
SC: September 2006 - June 2007 (9 months)
BC&SL: October 2008 - June 2009 (8 months)
ADTOE: January 2011 - September 2011 (8 months)
DT12: January 2013 - September 2013 (8 months)
TA: January 2015 - January 2016 (12 months; double album)
D/T: June 2018 - February 2019 (8 months)

With this in mind, if the band is entering the studio in September-November 2020 & writing all their material from there (which I believe has been their process for every album since SDOIT), then a May-July 2021 release date is most likely.



Edit: Also just for fun, these are the actual recording times, not counting the extra months for distribution & promotion.

WD&DU: July 1988 - August 1988 (1 month; written pre-studio)
I&W: October 1991 - December 1991 (2 months; written pre-studio)
Awake: May 1994 - July 1994 (2 months; written pre-studio)
FII: June 1997 - July 1997 (1 month; written pre-studio)
SFAM:
SDOIT: March 2001 - August 2001 (5 months; double album)
TOT: March 2003 - September 2003 (6 months; but written in only 3 weeks)
Octavarium: November 2004 - February 2005 (3 months)
SC: September 2006 - February 2007 (5 months)
BC&SL: October 2008 - March 2009 (5 months)
ADTOE: January 2011 - May 2011 (5 months)
DT12: January 2013 - May 2013 (5 months)
TA: January 2015 - September 2015 (8 months; double album)
D/T: June 2018 - September 2018 (3 months; but written in only 18 days)



Edit 2: & here's the time between ending of recording to album release

WD&DU: August 1988 - March 1989 (7 months)
I&W: December 1991 - July 1992 (7 months)
Awake: July 1994 - October 1994 (3 months)
FII: July 1997 - September 1997 (2 months)
SFAM: - October 1999 ()
SDOIT: August 2001 - January 2002 (5 months)
TOT: September 2003 - November 2003 (2 months)
Octavarium: February 2005 - June 2005 (4 months)
SC: February 2007 - June 2007 (4 months)
BC&SL: March 2009 - June 2009 (3 months)
ADTOE: May 2011 - September 2011 (4 months)
DT12: May 2013 - September 2013 (4 months)
TA: September 2015 - January 2016 (4 months)
D/T: September 2018 - February 2019 (5 months)

[Kotowboy]

Normally bands leave *at least* three months from the end of mastering to the release date. 8 - 9 months is a bit excessive imo.

But it all depends on the climate in 2021...

Therapy? finished an album once and then the label folded and it was finally released after 1 year.

Lets hope that doesnt happen here !

[IDontNotDoThings]

Normally bands leave *at least* three months from the end of mastering to the release date. 8 - 9 months is a bit excessive imo.

I know. The 8 months is from beginning of recording to album release. DT also normally has 3 months or so from end of mastering to album release. 

[MirrorMask]

Isn't three months the more or less universally adopted timeframe to build up the promotion of the album? announcement, interviews, videos, actual manufacturing and distribution etc.....

[IDontNotDoThings]

Isn't three months the more or less universally adopted timeframe to build up the promotion of the album? announcement, interviews, videos, actual manufacturing and distribution etc.....

Yes

[Setlist Scotty]

Something I would love to see them do for their next album is to not set an arbitrary time limit for themselves in when they need to complete song writing. With this pandemic being what it is, and with them having their own studio now. why not allow the ideas to flow freely and to follow their muse? After tapping it out, they can select the best songs that fit together to make an album, and have a bunch of left over tracks that they can use for B-sides and/or a mid-tour secondary release, be it a full album or maybe an EP. Had they not been forced to continue writing back in 1996-97 for what became Falling Into Infinity, Trial of Tears, Cover My Eyes, Hollow Years, New Millennium and Speak to Me would never exist.

And yeah, some other extras like an in-studio documentary, alternate versions of the album tracks (and by that, I don't mean just acoustic versions), another batch of interesting covers and/or the stems of at least some if not all the tracks on the album would be nice to have for a deluxe edition.

[Max Kuehnau]

Something I would love to see them do for their next album is to not set an arbitrary time limit for themselves in when they need to complete song writing. With this pandemic being what it is, and with them having their own studio now. why not allow the ideas to flow freely and to follow their muse? After tapping it out, they can select the best songs that fit together to make an album, and have a bunch of left over tracks that they can use for B-sides and/or a mid-tour secondary release, be it a full album or maybe an EP. Had they not been forced to continue writing back in 1996-97 for what became Falling Into Infinity, Trial of Tears, Cover My Eyes, Hollow Years, New Millennium and Speak to Me would never exist.

And yeah, some other extras like an in-studio documentary, alternate versions of the album tracks (and by that, I don't mean just acoustic versions), another batch of interesting covers and/or the stems of at least some if not all the tracks on the album would be nice to have for a deluxe edition.

I agree with most, if not all of this. I only would wish for two things (taking your "requests" (for lack of a more friendly word) into account as well): Put all the things you mentioned on the audio Bluray with a very dynamic mix (as with D/T, which was great IMHO) and release the audio Bluray combined with the CD version separately from a box set release as well. (so people wanting the hi res version don't need to buy a box set just for the audio Bluray.) Now for my other wish: DT15 should be as prog and as difficult and technical and as weird as possible. Them going fully blown bonkers, even on a double album, if you catch my drift. (that would entail Mike using his large kit again of course) Long pieces too. But either way, I'm as excited as can be right now. Sorry about being non-neutral. 

[dvargas]

I'm not watching that for 50 mins. What did he say ?

neither did I really. In a nutshell, he said that the scheduling for DT15 changed and that they will start working on DT15 proper in the Autumn of this year. (seeing as MM announced that he will not do any masterclasses anytime soon. So that will mean "work" will resume soon, as it were. MM stopping doing masterclasses is not what JP said though. Sorry if that may be misunderstood.)

Also confirms London DVD release towards the end of the year.

[Kotowboy]

As for the " take as long as they need " chat for the next album. I obviously agree 100%

However - with a band of five virtuosos - Petrucci often says they have too many ideas if anything since they will be jamming - and each member will have five ideas as to where to go next.

So I doubt they are forcing / rushing anything.

But whilst Portnoy takes a week to write and record an album and all his projects sound identical - I'd love to hear what all five guys in Dream Theater can come up with

given six months to really craft an ALBUM. The Astonishing took a year - it was literally just John and Jordan and that was 130 minutes long.

Imagine if all five guys took six months and they used the best ideas from everyone.

[gzarruk]

I'd like to see them experimenting a bit and maybe have each member (most likely not James, tho) bring a full song to the band sessions. Those wouldn't necessarily make it to the proper album, but since Inside Out always likes to offer special editions with bonus tracks, they could work as nice extras.