*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[Darkstarshades]

Now that I remember, in the original TA announcement thread, I joked with other guys (Don't recall who) about a possible TA plot

"Arhys will be the hero, as he will sacrifice his life and neglect his kid and wife, all for Gabriel to be happy"

Well, shit.

YES, THE ASTONISHING idea was originally MINE, not HIS, I conceived it waaay back in 2005 with OCTAVARIUM, the song NEVER ENOUGH was foreshadowing this, but I couldn't work on it because that was THE CONCEPT ALBUM I planned to do after BC&SL!!! The first act would have been this new album and the second act would be MY 12 STEP SUITE.

So it's confirmed.

What's that you wrote in green letters? Who said those words? Where? Source?

Interview about Octavarium II

[Dream Team]

Wife and I cranked TA in its entirety on a trip to the Maine coast this weekend. Such great melodies and amazing vocals, I just can't comprehend not liking it.

[King Postwhore]

Wife and I cranked TA in its entirety on a trip to the Maine coast this weekend. Such great melodies and amazing vocals, I just can't comprehend not liking it.

You better not have wussed out and not had your Steelers hat on.

[CrimsonSunrise]

I just realized, I haven't listened to the Astonishing since I saw it live at the end of April.  Kinda odd, It's not like I dislike it or anything.  Maybe I just got burned out on it a bit, I did power listen too it a lot leading up to the show.

[red barchetta]

Wife and I cranked TA in its entirety on a trip to the Maine coast this weekend. Such great melodies and amazing vocals, I just can't comprehend not liking it.

Good for you.  I just can't comprehend liking it.  I was listening to the last Circus Maximus today and even though a lot of old fans don't really like the new album, I think there  are much better melodies to my taste than the last DT. 

You can play me 5 TA songs and I will like them. But the whole stuff? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Mladen]

Right now I'm listening to this album in its entirety for the first time since winter, I guess. It's so hard to take the time and sit through the whole thing, but now that I finally decided to use my Sunday, I'm so happy I did it. This whole thing still rocks my world and trills me like crazy, I've already memorized most of the lyrics and I'm singing along to the melodies and stuff. It feels like this album's been a part of me for years, not months. Remarkable.

[MirrorMask]

I just realized, I haven't listened to the Astonishing since I saw it live at the end of April.  Kinda odd, It's not like I dislike it or anything.  Maybe I just got burned out on it a bit, I did power listen too it a lot leading up to the show.

It happens also to me to have the attention for an album climaxing with the concert. Especially when the show is so good and I feel like "How can I top this listening experience?", so I just revel in the memories of the concert.

[CrimsonSunrise]

It happens also to me to have the attention for an album climaxing with the concert. Especially when the show is so good and I feel like "How can I top this listening experience?", so I just revel in the memories of the concert.

I think you hit the nail on the head.  The show and whole NYC trip was so awesome, which in turn makes me content.

[rumborak]

Regarding SW and DT, I think SW knows where his influence would be fertile and where not. DT is a very "settled" band in a lot of ways, and more specifically, they do a lot of things very differently than SW does them. I don't think it would be a very enjoyable collaboration for either party.

[King Postwhore]

Yet, don't you think DT needs a different voice in their music Rumbo?  You of all people would agree with that.  Sometimes the best music comes out of Inner turmoil,  disagreements and being pushed.

I'd love to see it.

[rumborak]

Oh yeah, of course, my previous post was not meant to be interpreted as DT needing no help. They dearly need fresh air on the production side, and with TA they also could have used help on the editing side.

[King Postwhore]

But as a realist you know the percentages of this happening is very low. Too bad, it's a microcosm of today's world.  Go to the uncomfortable.

[TAC]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. TA is as different of a DT album that you could get. Not sure how you could bitch about the production. It's wide ranging and ambitious and anything but same old same old.

I think it's a tour de force. But that's me I guess. I don't know why there needs to be this big change. There wasn't discomfort with TA? The scope of the thing is huge, and I think it turned out great. It has many types of styles featuring many different influences. I'm in complete disagreement with the last few posts.

The fellating of Steven Wilson around here is  .

[King Postwhore]

Not about that at all. Tim, tell me KISS isn't at their best when a producer pushes them. 

Steven Wilson or not, Bands need to be pushed.   I feel DT needs that.

[Anguyen92]

Sometimes the best music comes out of Inner turmoil,  disagreements and being pushed.

Funny thing about this statement.  While there are certain examples where being pushed to the max can yield some good honest music, too much inner turmoil could lead to crap music.

I believe Metallica back in say early 2000s had a lot of inner conflict regarding stuff like going into rehab, a bassist leaving over the disagreement regarding side projects or not, and them leading the charge in the Napster battle.  I guess with all of this problems happening to them at the time, they had enough ammunition to rise above it and release a tremendous album, but the result ended up being St. Anger, a very polarizing album at best.

For me, a good album comes from whether or not they had a great time crafting the album knowing they did everything they could to make it the best it can be to satisfy their musical pleasures.  If DT look back years from now and still believe that The Astonishing album was among their greatest accomplishment of music they've done, cool.  I mean I wouldn't want them to look on years later after an album was released and reflect back and state that they had a miserable time creating said album, because they were unreasonably pushed around too much and the enthusiasm wasn't just there, and that they didn't believe in the songs they crafted.  If they cannot get behind the new music they crafted, would the fans can get behind it?

[TAC]

Not about that at all. Tim, tell me KISS isn't at their best when a producer pushes them. 

Steven Wilson or not, Bands need to be pushed.   I feel DT needs that.

Which KISS producer are you referring to? Ezrin? Destroyer, check! Revenge, check. Elder, Ok maybe, but the production blows.

How does DT need pushing? You have heard The Astonishing, right? 

Knowing you'd respond, I was thinking about this over dinner. Look at DT's catalog. Within their catalog, their albums are as varied as you can get without being Rush, where Rush really changed from style to style. But Rush is the exception, obviously. What band 13 albums into their career has as many different types of albums?

Not everyone is going to like every album DT releases, but I'm not sure how anyone can say that have stayed stagnant.

[King Postwhore]

I like The Astonishing, but it's time to have a view from the outside.  Bands need to change it up in a long career and DT is ripe for an outside view.

[TAC]

But what do you want them to change? Make a country album?

I mean, just look at their last three albums. They are all very different from each other.

[Darkstarshades]

Portnoy should produce...

[King Postwhore]

I don't want them to change. I want them to have another influence.

You know bands need it once in a while.  Why not?  Why not push themselves with an outside voice?  It's worked with so many bands.

If it doesn't then go back to the comfortable.

[TAC]

But who are "so many bands"?

[King Postwhore]

Tim, come on.  Don't play these games. The right producer is like the right coach. Sometimes a band needs a change like a team. 

It gives them a boost of energy.  I do not see why it's a bad thing? 

[KevShmev]

I think it is a bit much to say their albums are so different from one another.  At their core, every single DT album is a prog metal album.  Yeah, they do a good job of making every album not sound the same, but saying they are all very different from one another seems like a bit of an exaggeration, no?

[Adami]

Tim, come on.  Don't play these games. The right producer is like the right coach. Sometimes a band needs a change like a team. 

It gives them a boost of energy.  I do not see why it's a bad thing?

I'm going to go ahead and agree with King. I have no idea why this is even being argued. Sure, some producers do bad jobs, but some bands' best albums are because they were being challenged or had to prove something.

[King Postwhore]

Maybe it doesn't work out, maybe it does but why not push yourself, test yourself, have great music sex  with someone else?

[TAC]

Tim, come on.  Don't play these games. The right producer is like the right coach. Sometimes a band needs a change like a team. 

It gives them a boost of energy.  I do not see why it's a bad thing? 

Like I said, I'll give you Rush. And Alice Cooper.

I understand your overall point, but it's like you are saying that DT are becoming stagnant. I believe they are anything but, that's all. 

:brohug

I think it is a bit much to say their albums are so different from one another.  At their core, every single DT album is a prog metal album.  Yeah, they do a good job of making every album not sound the same, but saying they are all very different from one another seems like a bit of an exaggeration, no?

I don't think so. What band has such different albums in their catalog? Most bands fall into "_____" genre. I believe within DT's confines they have varied albums. Now if you want to blow open their confines, then fine. What style would you like them to play in? No one can tell me this.

[King Postwhore]

I'm not saying stagnant but the last 2 albums haven't blown me away.  I like them but sometimes, in a long career like DT, they get that push from a producer.

See the making of Snakes and Arrows from Rush.  It's a prime example of what I'm talking about.

[KevShmev]

I think it is a bit much to say their albums are so different from one another.  At their core, every single DT album is a prog metal album.  Yeah, they do a good job of making every album not sound the same, but saying they are all very different from one another seems like a bit of an exaggeration, no?

I don't think so. What band has such different albums in their catalog? Most bands fall into "_____" genre. I believe within DT's confines they have varied albums. Now if you want to blow open their confines, then fine. What style would you like them to play in? No one can tell me this.

I didn't say I want to see them play in another style; they do a fine job playing in the one they're in.  Just don't tell me that any of their albums don't fall into the prog metal genre.

[TAC]

I didn't say I want to see them play in another style; they do a fine job playing in the one they're in.  Just don't tell me that any of their albums don't fall into the prog metal genre.

I'm definitely not trying to say that. But Kev, don't tell me every band doesn't have their core style. And my position is that within their core style, they have a pretty varied catalog.
What band does not have a core style?

See the making of Snakes and Arrows from Rush.  It's a prime example of what I'm talking about.

Snakes And Arrows blows. BUT, I'll give you this...it is easily their best sounding album since Moving Pictures.

[King Postwhore]

Check it out online. Seriously. You'll get it.

[TAC]

Check it out online. Seriously. You'll get it.

Check what out? S&A? I have it.

[King Postwhore]

The making of the album online.

[TAC]

The making of the album online.

Oh. OK. Maybe I will!

[SebastianPratesi]

Reading the discussion on whether DT's albums are varied or not, I just started thinking how different Train Of Thought (the very first DT album I listened to) and The Astonishing are - in terms of mix, stylistic approach, songwriting, etc. - yet they come from the same band and producer (well, except for MP).

[Mosh]

or The Astonishing vs DT12.

I'm with TAC on this one as far as how varied the albums are go. Compared to other bands in DT's circle, they do a really good job changing it up. For as much worship he gets around here, I don't find Steven Wilson's albums (his main solo albums and PT stuff, mind you) all that varied.

I do think an outside collaborator would benefit them. But honestly that could've easily been in the form of a new member. When Rudess joined it totally changed the shape and sound of the band. With Mangini I think they consciously avoided going for someone who would act as a major creative voice (for hopefully obvious reasons) and I get that, but they could've been more bold with their choice there.