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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: bosk1 on January 28, 2016, 06:44:54 PM

Title: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on January 28, 2016, 06:44:54 PM
Now that the album is becoming available in various time zones, we pretty much have a green light for discussion of legally obtained music/lyrics/album art/etc.  Since the other thread was a it long-ish, it was requested that we have a new one, so here you go.  Enjoy and discuss away, DTF.  Do what you do!

***SPOILERS BELOW***  (obviously)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 28, 2016, 06:46:10 PM
YES!

First impression:

This is some of the most special, most melodic and beautiful music Dream Theater has even written.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Voices on January 28, 2016, 06:47:17 PM
My favorite DT album. Completely astonished!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 28, 2016, 06:48:54 PM
Easily some of their most varied and emotional music for me.
Thankfully, the snare doesn't bother me here. I was worried about this from the 2 singles but honestly those are the worst spots for the triggered sound. The snare does have some dynamics in the more dynamic songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cookienut on January 28, 2016, 06:51:17 PM
It definitely takes more listens...more over any other album they've made.

That said, it's truly original and refreshing.

Musicality is absolutely fantastic.

There are some low points but the high points expand it into some fantastic territory that is some of the bands best.

I had no hope for this album so Im quite surprised. Infact it's excellent.

That jazz/blastbeat breakdown...I WANT MORE OF IT.

 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 28, 2016, 06:54:06 PM
Mangini's Billie Jean beat on

" A New Beginning "

:coolio.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on January 28, 2016, 06:55:22 PM
Yes, many great sections end too soon - a first for DT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Voices on January 28, 2016, 06:56:23 PM
Mangini's Billie Jean beat on

" A New Beginning "

:coolio.

I loved that! I dance everytime I hear this section  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on January 28, 2016, 06:57:32 PM
Some posts from the last thread quoted below (sorry, since they were posted chronologically before I posted this thread, I cannot import them here; I have to just quote them):


LISTENING NOW  :metal :corn :corn

:biggrin: I like the West Side Story section in Dystopian Overture

A Saviour In The Square.

DAT INTRO  :'( :'( :'( :'(

For me, the track that completely stands out is Our New World. That is DT at its best. Like, easily beats anything they've done in the last 5 years. And more.

Act of Faythe now.

Ahhhh. When a 4th is played and it resolves to a 3rd. :lol



Act of Faythe now.

Ahhhh. When a 4th is played and it resolves to a 3rd. :lol

That's been one of my criticisms. This album is a bit "death by plagal cadence".

this album is fucking amazing, best since SFAM IMO

For me, the track that completely stands out is Our New World. That is DT at its best. Like, easily beats anything they've done in the last 5 years. And more.


If that track is not going to break into radio stations i'll lose any hope in human kind (the very little i still have)

Three Days :lol  :metal :metal :corn :corn

Did they let Primus in the studio ? :lol

AWESOME

Act of Faythe now.

Ahhhh. When a 4th is played and it resolves to a 3rd. :lol

That's been one of my criticisms. This album is a bit "death by plagal cadence".

As a composer it pissed me of a little.

Brother, Can You Hear Me sounds like a song from church  :biggrin:




For me I don't like when a 4th doesn't resolve to a 3rd :lol

For me I don't like when a 4th doesn't resolve to a 3rd :lol

That's the very point of it though. Just like a seventh chord tries to "pull" you towards the root note, the 4th tries to pull you towards the third of the tonic.
But, it is a rather hamfisted songwriting device. It should be used sparingly.

I like the chorus to "Chosen".

Digital Discord now.... DAT NOMAC.

Uh oh it's the tripods from the 2005 War Of The Worlds  :biggrin:

The X Aspect.

Bagpipes ahoy ...and demonic choir :D

A New Beginning.

Dat surf intro  :biggrin:

I'm going to bed at the end of ACT I and will continue my "review" tomorrow :rollin

Well this album is definitely for those that thought DT were stuck in a creative rut.

It's the "weirdest" they've sounded since Six Degrees. And is by far the most of the Mangini Era.

*maybe* the RoadRunner era.

Seriously. They've bought back that - whatever it is - they lost after Six Degrees.

Nutty sections. Some sections so bizarre and awesome I was like :lol fuck yes.

Brother, Can You Hear Me sounds like a song from church  :biggrin:

Yeah, it sounds like a hymn  :mehlin

Mangini's Billie Jean drum beat on " A New Beginning " - groovy as fuck.  :metal

The Road To Revolution....

Final track of ACT I.

:clap: thoroughly enjoyed ACT I.

Some songs stand out more than others. But that always happens on first listen.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MegaDTSX on January 28, 2016, 06:58:26 PM
I'm getting the album tomorrow...but please someone tell me this:

Does the lyric book show which character is "speaking" in each song?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 28, 2016, 06:58:31 PM
So who's gonna start our lengthy SFAM-esque analysis of The Astonishings story?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 28, 2016, 06:59:17 PM
I'm getting the album tomorrow...but please someone tell me this:

Does the lyric book show which character is "speaking" in each song?

Yup!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 28, 2016, 06:59:28 PM
I'm getting the album tomorrow...but please someone tell me this:


Does the lyric book show which character is "speaking" in each song?

Yes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 28, 2016, 07:00:36 PM
Gonna continue my play through this evening.

Thanks for all the quotes. :bosky:

:)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MegaDTSX on January 28, 2016, 07:00:47 PM
I'm getting the album tomorrow...but please someone tell me this:

Does the lyric book show which character is "speaking" in each song?

Yup!

Oh thank god.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 28, 2016, 07:01:12 PM
I'm getting the album tomorrow...but please someone tell me this:


Does the lyric book show which character is "speaking" in each song?

Yes.

Yes. It's written in script form.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TioJorge on January 28, 2016, 07:03:55 PM
I really enjoyed what I heard but honestly there's only a few tracks that really hit me and stood out to me. I think this will be one of those albums that I rarely spin but when I do I enjoy it. I gave it a 7 in the rating thread. I really, REALLY liked Ravenskill. Like a lot. It's gonna take a few more spins and sadly this album seems so dependant on being listened to in full and is also so long that I probably won't spin it again till Sunday. But good stuff. It's definitely something singular and special. Dat orchestra. Big sound. Some feels here and there. Pretty awesome.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 28, 2016, 07:04:24 PM
IMO, NOMACS track are very make sense for break time in the album, rather than break time like Illumination Theory & The Count of Tuscany
NOMACS Track really raise my fantasy about the story, love it. Especially "Descent of NOMAC" & "Power Down"
I can imagine in Track "Descent of NOMACS", that noises is about how NOMAC turn on from off
And, I can imagine in Track "Power Down", that noises is about how NOMAC turn off from on

Sorry about my bad english hahaha  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zook on January 28, 2016, 07:21:21 PM
This album gets better with each listen. I was worried at first because I wasn't feeling it, but it gets more coherent the more I hear it.

So yeah, this album is a grower. There are still some silly moments, and I'm not too keen on the sound effects, but overall, me likey.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on January 28, 2016, 07:21:55 PM
Gonna continue my play through this evening.

Thanks for all the quotes. :bosky:

:)

No problem.  Sorry that it is kind of a clunky way to do it, but I couldn't think of a better way.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertie_Wooster on January 28, 2016, 07:24:07 PM
Did Jp write the lyrics to "chosen" in an ambiguous way so that it could work as a single?
If it makes the radio it will be a massive hit.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MegaDTSX on January 28, 2016, 07:26:38 PM
Can someone tell me who Evangeline is in relation to the other characters? 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertie_Wooster on January 28, 2016, 07:30:01 PM
We've got one of the most wicked solo's ever played by JP and people bring up the drums?  I didn't hear the drums during that
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 28, 2016, 07:32:53 PM
RIP Refresh button for the HD Tracks website.  :lol Come on, show up already!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on January 28, 2016, 07:34:39 PM
Waiting for the release tomorrow, but just out of curiosity, wouldn't it make more sense to have different threads, one for the music and one for the story?  Some might want to discuss the music while just starting to listen and not want to read spoilers about the story.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Nearmyth on January 28, 2016, 07:36:56 PM
Regarding NOMAC tracks - I find myself quite enjoying breaking the album up into "acts" or "parts" by the NOMAC tracks.

It really makes sense and gives the story a much more natural flow (only considering the lengthiness of ACT 1), as well as making the climax-like tracks much more impactful.

Kind of like:

Part 1 - (37:00) tracks 1-10
Part 2 - (25:00) tracks 11 - 17
Part 3 - (16:00) tracks 18-20
Part 4 - (23:00) tracks 21-27
Part 5 - (27:00) tracks 27-34

Might just be because I like to organize things, but it's just a different way to look at the music itself :coolio
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on January 28, 2016, 07:38:25 PM
Waiting for the release tomorrow, but just out of curiosity, wouldn't it make more sense to have different threads, one for the music and one for the story?  Some might want to discuss the music while just starting to listen and not want to read spoilers about the story.

Yeah, but the flipside is, then there are multiple threads to follow, which just seems unwieldy and confusing. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on January 28, 2016, 07:45:54 PM
Waiting for the release tomorrow, but just out of curiosity, wouldn't it make more sense to have different threads, one for the music and one for the story?  Some might want to discuss the music while just starting to listen and not want to read spoilers about the story.

Yeah, but the flipside is, then there are multiple threads to follow, which just seems unwieldy and confusing.

True.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on January 28, 2016, 07:48:17 PM
I mean, I'm not against it per se if the majority decide that that is what they want.  But I am leaning toward "no" right now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 28, 2016, 07:50:02 PM
So far, there are several tracks I love, but the rest just blur together, and so far I don't really like Act II at all.
The high points on this album are way up there, and reminds of the type of writing they haven't done since SFAM/SDOIT, and are easily the best I've heard in the MM era, but there are too many misses for me at this point, and too many songs that felt like they started the same. Three Days is classic DT, and the kind of thing I've been itching to hear for a long time. Hits the spot goooood. I've already listened to it more than anything from ADTOE and DT12 combined.

Let's see how I feel after a few more listens though. :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: seasonsinthesky on January 28, 2016, 07:50:58 PM
The most brutal thing ever is "A New Beginning" fading out in the middle of that incredible Petrucci solo.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on January 28, 2016, 07:52:51 PM
I'm 12 tracks in and so far with out a doubt this is the most interesting and intriguing DT record i've heard in years.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 28, 2016, 07:56:05 PM
The only thing that disappoint me about the story is, there is no actual fight & war between The Great Northern Empire & Ravenskill Rebel Militia
The story just about the 8 character, I hope something bigger like there is a war, including Imperial Guards & Ravenskill rebel troop. Why Ravenskill Rebel Militia always training then if there is no war at all? Poor troop :facepalm: ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 28, 2016, 07:59:10 PM
Can I point out how beautiful Act of Faythe is? It reminds me of sections of Octavarium. Great buildup, satisfying payoff, beautiful harmonies and melodies, and JLB of course slays it as usual.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RMGadelha on January 28, 2016, 08:01:02 PM
Wow, wow. I love it. There is indeed some songs that I wouldn't listen without the context of the album, but the album as a whole is just beautiful. I actually liked the story!

Can I point out how beautiful Act of Faythe is? It reminds me of sections of Octavarium. Great buildup, satisfying payoff, beautiful harmonies and melodies, and JLB of course slays it as usual.

Indeed. It is what I like to call "the love theme". You hear it the first time at the end of A Savior in the Square when Gabriel first sees Faythe.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: NunoTenniscourt on January 28, 2016, 08:03:38 PM
I am thoroughly impressed so far, and very relieved, because I was worried this was going to be an embarrassing disaster. I envisioned myself having to attempt forcing it to grow on me at best. Thankfully, that has not been the case. Many songs made an immediate positive impact.

I know fans of the shred and metal side of Dream Theater will likely be disappointed in this album, but for fuck's sake, they needed a break from all of that, in my opinion. I'm glad Jordan went with a real piano on this album. The difference is quite noticeable. His presence on the album is huge to say the least.

So far, the stand out tracks for me:

A Life Left Behind - bad ass intro reminiscent of Yes, then evolves into a great melodic song.
Ravenskill - Beautiful all around.
Our New World - I knew the second the guitar intro started this was going to be stellar, and I was right. This song has "monster hit" written all over it. It's that good.
Heaven's Cove - really nice acoustic guitar intro.
The X Aspect

I'm sure this album is only going to get better with every listen.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RMGadelha on January 28, 2016, 08:05:29 PM
I'm gonna say it right now. I want to see a couple who likes Dream Theater dancing Lord Nafaryus' beautiful tango. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertie_Wooster on January 28, 2016, 08:07:09 PM
I heard some Les miserables at the end of side one.    Several Phantom of the opera moments scattered throughout the album.
Jordan should be given a trophy.   This is the first album he earned MVP over JP.    Not that JP didn't bring his A game.
Jordan was simply spectabular.   It is as if the Nomacs downloaded their software into his body.  James is Gabriel Reincarnated.
JP is lord Nafaryus    This is my favorite Dream Theater album period.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MegaDTSX on January 28, 2016, 08:08:38 PM
Can anyone tell me how Evangeline is related to any of the other characters? 

From someone who doesn't have the album I can tell the Empress/Nafaryus/Daryus/(and maybe Faythe..?) are like the royal family while Arhys and Gabriel are more than likely brothers and Xander is a child in the rebel army..?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RMGadelha on January 28, 2016, 08:09:26 PM
Can anyone tell me how Evangeline is related to any of the other characters? 

From someone who doesn't have the album I can tell the Empress/Nafaryus/Daryus/(and maybe Faythe..?) are like the royal family while Arhys and Gabriel are more than likely brothers and Xander is a child in the rebel army..?

Evangeline is Arhys' wife.

Btw, are full blown out spoilers liberated on this thread?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Train of Naught on January 28, 2016, 08:11:31 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Three Days is fucking awesome and might become a top 20-10 DT song for me. Yes, even separated from the story, I really love this song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dvargas on January 28, 2016, 08:12:39 PM
So far, there are several tracks I love, but the rest just blur together, and so far I don't really like Act II at all.
The high points on this album are way up there, and reminds of the type of writing they haven't done since SFAM/SDOIT, and are easily the best I've heard in the MM era, but there are too many misses for me at this point, and too many songs that felt like they started the same. Three Days is classic DT, and the kind of thing I've been itching to hear for a long time. Hits the spot goooood. I've already listened to it more than anything from ADTOE and DT12 combined.

Let's see how I feel after a few more listens though. :)

Agree with a lot you say here. A lot of songs begin exactly the same and many end the same too...

A big blur.

And I'll say it: I miss some wankery, like DT wankery.

What I really DON'T like is the fact that there are no songs, with the exception of A New Beginning that have segments that I actually look forward too. And that really disappoints me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on January 28, 2016, 08:12:48 PM
My mini "review" (yes, I admit to having listened to it already, because I'm going on a ski trip and will not get my hands on it for quite a few days):

There is some really cool stuff on that album. It is absolutely clear that this is a JP+JR+JLB album, and they have some great, great moments.
That said, I actually plan on making a "fan edit" of the album, because there is a lot of stuff that doesn't pull its weight. Most of the ballads kinda blur together, and so I will identify the (for me) strong parts and hopefully successfully blend them together into something I will repeatedly listen to. In its entirety it is not something I expect to feel desire to listen to.

I really, really like Our New World. It is so light-hearted, it's a breeze of fresh air blown into a stale room. As I said, best thing they have done in a long time. Even just for that tune it's worth purchasing the album.
"Inspiration corner" is weirdly clustered in one part of the album. You go from a "Waiting for the worms" song (Brother Do You Hear Me) into a "Tempus Fugit" right after. Luckily not much Rush this time, at least musically.

And now to the dreadful part of the review: As I said, this is a JP+JR+JLB album. And that's all it is. JM and MM, sorry. I really don't know how to put it otherwise, but MM managed to put 3 hours of lifeless drumming onto that album. At least JM gets that delightful groove on "A New Beginning".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RMGadelha on January 28, 2016, 08:12:56 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Three Days is fucking awesome and might become a top 20-10 DT song for me. Yes, even separated from the story, I really love this song.

I love all of the Empire's sections. Daryus sounds like a spoiled brat in one moment, haha. "Don't make me ask again, DO AS MY FATHER SAYS!"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: El Barto on January 28, 2016, 08:14:08 PM
Not really what I was expecting. Like Blob said most of it seems to blur together. I don't dislike it, but I haven't heard anything that made me think "hey, that was a great song." I hear passages throughout that I really dig, but it's a bass line here or a guitar solo there as part of something I assume to be one the songs.

Still don't like the drums.

I think it'll be pretty damned fun to watch played live.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Train of Naught on January 28, 2016, 08:14:52 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Three Days is fucking awesome and might become a top 20-10 DT song for me. Yes, even separated from the story, I really love this song.

I love all of the Empire's sections. Daryus sounds like a spoiled brat in one moment, haha. "Don't make me ask again, DO AS MY FATHER SAYS!"
Right on mate, I now understand why people said James really shined on this one, he really makes the characters come to life!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Letter M on January 28, 2016, 08:15:17 PM
Is it just me, or does the melody, most prominently featured in "Brother Can You Hear Me?" remind anyone of the vocal melody from the middle of Rush's "Hemispheres, Part IV: Cygnus, Bringer Of Balance"? The lyrics in that song go -
."I have memory and awareness
But I have no shape or form
As a disembodied spirit
I am dead and yet unborn
I have passed into Olympus
As was told in tales of old
To the city of Immortals
Marble white and purest gold..."

The melody in BCYHM is VERY reminiscent of that verse for me, and I'm hoping I'm not the only one who felt that way...it also reminds me of parts of "The Wall", too. There's tons of Rush and Pink Floyd all over this album, at least to me.

-Marc.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 28, 2016, 08:15:33 PM
Indeed. It is what I like to call "the love theme". You hear it the first time at the end of A Savior in the Square when Gabriel first sees Faythe.

Works for me (although it makes me think of the Love Theme From Kiss :lol ). It's a really catchy and memorable theme, and Act of Faythe is my favourite variant of it, like it's the full version.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RMGadelha on January 28, 2016, 08:17:04 PM
Indeed. It is what I like to call "the love theme". You hear it the first time at the end of A Savior in the Square when Gabriel first sees Faythe.

Works for me (although it makes me think of the Love Theme From Kiss :lol ). It's a really catchy and memorable theme, and Act of Faythe is my favourite variant of it, like it's the full version.

Yeah, there's even a more upbeat version of it that's also interesting during The Road to Revolution. :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Skeever on January 28, 2016, 08:18:34 PM
Not really what I was expecting. Like Blob said most of it seems to blur together. I don't dislike it, but I haven't heard anything that made me think "hey, that was a great song." I hear passages throughout that I really dig, but it's a bass line here or a guitar solo there as part of something I assume to be one the songs.

Still don't like the drums.

I think it'll be pretty damned fun to watch played live.

I've enjoyed a good deal of the album, but I pretty much agree with all of this. I feel it's a wee bit bogged down by the musical "format", and the result is something that's really tiring and repetitive to listen to all the way through. I also agree with rumborak above about Our New World. To be honest, I think it might be one of the best short songs they've EVER done.

I will say, I was not expecting this at all. What an amazing effort. I'm not sure it paid off completely, but they really seem to have given it their all and props to the band for having an idea and then being 100% committed to it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 28, 2016, 08:19:01 PM
Indeed. It is what I like to call "the love theme". You hear it the first time at the end of A Savior in the Square when Gabriel first sees Faythe.

Works for me (although it makes me think of the Love Theme From Kiss :lol ). It's a really catchy and memorable theme, and Act of Faythe is my favourite variant of it, like it's the full version.

Yeah, there's even a more upbeat version of it that's also interesting during The Road to Revolution. :)

Road to Revolution feels like a little medley of all these different sections to act as the intermission, so it doesn't leave me as satisfied as the slower burn of Act of Faythe. I do like that song though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RMGadelha on January 28, 2016, 08:20:35 PM
I would also like to add that The Walking Shadow was one of the most interesting things they've ever done. James is insane there and the ending is really creepy sounding in a good way.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sacul on January 28, 2016, 08:20:46 PM
Needs more listens, but this is already better than the last 2, even 3 albums... Which is not much to say :lol

I'll take this slowly, since it has a ridiculous amount of ballads and cheese :P

Three Days tho  :metal.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertie_Wooster on January 28, 2016, 08:21:04 PM
1:27 of "the path divides" sounds like space dye vest.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 28, 2016, 08:21:33 PM
I will say, I was not expecting this at all. What an amazing effort. I'm not sure it paid off completely, but they really seem to have given it their all and props to the band for having an idea and then being 100% committed to it.

I forgot to mention this. Regardless of what my final opinion will be, I'm glad DT went all in and were inspired to do something so ambitious, and hope they continue to try new things regardless of fan opinions. The best parts of this album excite me like I didn't think DT still could, and prove they're still capable of magic.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 28, 2016, 08:22:15 PM
I really don't know how to put it otherwise, but MM managed to put 3 hours of lifeless drumming onto that album.

If you still find the drumming in this whole album lifeless, then you will never ever like Mike Mangini's drumming in whatever form. This has been his style from the very very start.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on January 28, 2016, 08:22:40 PM
As I am not in possession of the booklet yet, can anybody please, PLEASE, fill me in what the fuck is up with the intro of Losing Faythe? Are they crying, laughing, fondling each other?

If you still find the drumming in this whole album lifeless, then you will never ever like Mike Mangini's drumming in whatever form. This has been his style from the very very start.

I realize that now, yes, but I always hoped he was holding back as the "newbie". I must admit, I have now written off MM.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sacul on January 28, 2016, 08:23:18 PM
All of them :zydar:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dvargas on January 28, 2016, 08:30:16 PM
The biggest mistake I made today:

While at work I listened to SDOIT disc 1.  :facepalm:

TA... not even remotely close.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: FiberglassMoon on January 28, 2016, 08:32:54 PM
I have a feeling that this album is going to be among the most polarizing in DT's catalog.

Myself, I'm quite enjoying it.  It's just really refreshing to hear them go in a different direction, regardless of what that direction is. This album definitely has it's own unique feel, which has been missing from DT's records for the better part of a decade now (imo).

As for the music - there are some truly fantastic and touching moments.  And for as many ballads as there are, they're very well done for the most part.  It's such an enormous disc that it's gonna take a lot more listens to fully absorb it all.

Also, it really does play out like a musical. Even though that's not a surprise because of the number of tracks, it's another thing all together to finally hear it.  It's so much different than SFAM in that aspect - TA has strings of songs that, for me, represent a movement in the album, where on SFAM it was more the individual songs playing that role. I would have liked TA to have a few more longer songs that were more fleshed out, just to help break up that whole 4-6 minute song range (which I think is responsible for a little bit of that blurring together of tracks).  There are some tracks that I feel build up well, only to end abruptly as we're rushed into the next song.

Now that I think about it, I feel like the need to drive the storyline forward kind interfered with their ability to expand or extend some of the stronger sections.

To early to tell, but let's hope this one gets better with more spins!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dedSurroun on January 28, 2016, 08:33:51 PM
Listening all day.

Easily best since 6DOIT. At least on part with it.

Anyone who thinks differently is wrong.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 28, 2016, 08:34:43 PM
Listening all day.

Easily best since 6DOIT. At least on part with it.

Anyone who thinks differently is wrong.

Anyone who thinks they've done anything on par with SDOIT since is wrong. :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on January 28, 2016, 08:37:13 PM
Anyone who tries to compare anything, anwhere, anytime, by anybody to SDOIT is wrong

Anyways, going to bed now and getting up at midnight to listen to the download. See you all on the other side  :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 28, 2016, 08:39:21 PM
The biggest mistake I made today:

While at work I listened to SDOIT disc 1.  :facepalm:

TA... not even remotely close.

Why would you compare them? SDOIT is written as a typical music album. TA is written as a musical.

If you listen to TA as a musical and judge it as a musical production, the musical choices all make sense, especially the recurring themes, the  not so lengthy development of "instrumental" ideas, etc.

TA is not even comparable to SFAM because SFAM, while a concept album with a narrative, is still written mostly as a typical music album, like Haken's Aquarius and Visions. TA, based on the flow and the composition, is really writeen as a musical theater production. Even the last song would give you the impression that it is where the "actors" would come back to the stage to take their bows and receive audience applause.

I am getting a sense here that DT has more plans for this project and they might actually explore making this an actual theatrical production because that is how it is written.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: El Barto on January 28, 2016, 08:40:58 PM
I must admit, I have now written off MM.
Yeah, I think I have to concur. Up until now he's merely been a disappointing reminder of what's lost. Now I'm considering him a detriment, despite perhaps being the most gifted one in an amazingly talented band.

edit: and completely unrelated, but every time I venture into this strange and creepy corner of DTF, which is not very often, I'm fascinated by all of the people I've never heard of despite being a very active member of this forum, and in particular I love seeing some of the usernames. I feel strangely honored to be following up a post from Sir Walrus Cauliflower.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on January 28, 2016, 08:44:08 PM
Yeah, I think I have to concur. Up until now he's merely been a disappointing reminder of what's lost. Now I'm considering him a detriment, despite perhaps being the most gifted one in an amazingly talented band.

I really don't want to harp on this too long, but yeah, I had the same thought when I was listening to the album. Especially for the softer sections, subtle, organic drumming would have been wondrous and added so much to the songs. But it just stays at the same "bup ... chick", the whole time.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 28, 2016, 08:46:39 PM
Wow, wow. I love it. There is indeed some songs that I wouldn't listen without the context of the album, but the album as a whole is just beautiful. I actually liked the story!

Can I point out how beautiful Act of Faythe is? It reminds me of sections of Octavarium. Great buildup, satisfying payoff, beautiful harmonies and melodies, and JLB of course slays it as usual.

Indeed. It is what I like to call "the love theme". You hear it the first time at the end of A Savior in the Square when Gabriel first sees Faythe.

From the plenty of themes I've heard so far, that's the one that has caught my attention the most. It's beautiful.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 28, 2016, 08:48:35 PM
Yeah, I think I have to concur. Up until now he's merely been a disappointing reminder of what's lost. Now I'm considering him a detriment, despite perhaps being the most gifted one in an amazingly talented band.

I really don't want to harp on this too long, but yeah, I had the same thought when I was listening to the album. Especially for the softer sections, subtle, organic drumming would have been wondrous and added so much to the songs. But it just stays at the same "bup ... chick", the whole time.

Yes, because When Your Time Has Come and Act of Faythe has "bup...chick" drumming all over. Maybe I am just imagining all those ghost notes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shadow2222 on January 28, 2016, 08:51:22 PM
I'm really enjoying this album. It flows very well in my opinion. Even when I pick a song to listen to individually, I end up listening to quite a bit more after that because it just draws me in.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on January 28, 2016, 08:52:08 PM
Yeah, I think I have to concur. Up until now he's merely been a disappointing reminder of what's lost. Now I'm considering him a detriment, despite perhaps being the most gifted one in an amazingly talented band.

I really don't want to harp on this too long, but yeah, I had the same thought when I was listening to the album. Especially for the softer sections, subtle, organic drumming would have been wondrous and added so much to the songs. But it just stays at the same "bup ... chick", the whole time.

I've got to completely disagree here. MM's drumming on ADTOE and DT12 did nothing for me, but to me his performance stood out a ton on first listen here. Really got that BTFW/air drummable vibe in a plurality of the tracks. He's not quite as much of a presence as JP, but as much as JR, and more than James and JM. And the snare tone finally is not only reasonable but actually well above-average.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wideworldofmike on January 28, 2016, 08:52:19 PM
The most brutal thing ever is "A New Beginning" fading out in the middle of that incredible Petrucci solo.  :facepalm:

this
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 28, 2016, 08:53:39 PM
Yeah, I think I have to concur. Up until now he's merely been a disappointing reminder of what's lost. Now I'm considering him a detriment, despite perhaps being the most gifted one in an amazingly talented band.

I really don't want to harp on this too long, but yeah, I had the same thought when I was listening to the album. Especially for the softer sections, subtle, organic drumming would have been wondrous and added so much to the songs. But it just stays at the same "bup ... chick", the whole time.

It's funny, because I think that if this were any other band no one would care at all about the drum sound, the mix or the drum performance itself (which I think is pretty killer). One of the criticisms he has received the most in these past 4 years has been of overplaying, his drum sound, lacking 'feel' (whatever that means) and of playing very machine-like compared to Portnoy. This is probably one of the most laid-back-play-to-the-song drum performances I've heard from DT, and the sound fits the whole mix surprisingly well. So, I find it very peculiar that you don't find his drumming organic, or to consider him a detriment.

My two cents.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 28, 2016, 08:55:04 PM
Yeah, I think I have to concur. Up until now he's merely been a disappointing reminder of what's lost. Now I'm considering him a detriment, despite perhaps being the most gifted one in an amazingly talented band.

I really don't want to harp on this too long, but yeah, I had the same thought when I was listening to the album. Especially for the softer sections, subtle, organic drumming would have been wondrous and added so much to the songs. But it just stays at the same "bup ... chick", the whole time.

It's funny, because I think that if this were any other band no one would care at all about the drum sound, the mix or the drum performance itself (which I think is pretty killer). One of the criticisms he has received the most in these past 4 years has been of overplaying, of lacking 'feel' (whatever that means) and of playing very machine-like compared to Portnoy. This is probably one of the most laid-back-play-to-the-song drum performances I've heard from DT, so I find it very peculiar that you don't find his drumming organic, or to consider him a detriment.

My two cents.

He won't like it unless MM plays like his favorite drummer, Gavin Harrison.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chego_voice on January 28, 2016, 08:55:21 PM
I heard A LOT of SFAM references all over The Astonishing... and I FUC^%*N LOVE IT!!!!! :heart :hefdaddy :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 28, 2016, 08:56:59 PM
I have to disagree on MM as well. The drumming is definitely not lifeless. There's also plenty of subtlety -- sure there could have been more of that, but it's there especially on the first disc. The thing with MM is he keeps a basic up-front pulse, but there's lots of other things that he adds in underneath. Portnoy makes these extras super obvious, with MM you have to listen more for them (plus his cymbals are generally mixed lower). I imagine if this style bothers you, you'll never really enjoy MM's playing. I for one think it fits well.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 28, 2016, 08:58:14 PM
I have to disagree on MM as well. The drumming is definitely lifeless. There's also plenty of subtlety -- sure there could have been more of that, but it's there especially on the first disc. The thing with MM is he keeps a basic up-front pulse, but there's lots of other things that he adds in underneath. Portnoy makes these extras super obvious, with MM you have to listen more for them (plus his cymbals are generally mixed lower). I imagine if this style bothers you, you'll never really enjoy MM's playing. I for one think it fits well.

I think you meant to  include NOT in that statement.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 28, 2016, 08:58:56 PM
Yep, fixed! :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on January 28, 2016, 09:00:02 PM
He won't like it unless MM plays like his favorite drummer, Gavin Harrison.  :lol

Or Marco Minnemann, or Neil Peart, or ...

Seriously though, this is just my personal opinion and taste. I do not connect with his uber-precise, dry drum sound. I like to hear the stick scraping over the rim, the imprecise hit of the hihat, I like dynamics. MM is not about that, I totally get that  (now). Doesn't mean I have to like it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: El Barto on January 28, 2016, 09:02:21 PM
Yeah, I think I have to concur. Up until now he's merely been a disappointing reminder of what's lost. Now I'm considering him a detriment, despite perhaps being the most gifted one in an amazingly talented band.

I really don't want to harp on this too long, but yeah, I had the same thought when I was listening to the album. Especially for the softer sections, subtle, organic drumming would have been wondrous and added so much to the songs. But it just stays at the same "bup ... chick", the whole time.

Yes, because When Your Time Has Come and Act of Faythe has "bup...chick" drumming all over. Maybe I am just imagining all those ghost notes.
Wow. I hadn't made it that far yet, but after your post I listened to those. WYTHC is the most egregious yet. AoF isn't too bad, and I rather like the mini-solo at the conclusion. WYTHC is actually hard to listen to, though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 28, 2016, 09:03:13 PM
He won't like it unless MM plays like his favorite drummer, Gavin Harrison.  :lol

Or Marco Minnemann, or Neil Peart, or ...

Well, MM is more along the lines of Terry Bozzio and Bill Bruford, mixed with metal elements. His drumming in A Life Left Behind actually sounds a lot like how Bozzio would drum in a UK record like Ceasar's Palace Blues.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertie_Wooster on January 28, 2016, 09:04:32 PM
I thought MM is what made some of the DT12 songs great.  If he had been there when TA was written he would have had a similar impact
Why listen to the drums when you have James  JR amd JP giving such a great performance.  The music did not give mike a lot of room to manuever anyway.
In heavens Cove I want to hear the womans singing not drums.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on January 28, 2016, 09:05:45 PM
Sometimes I don't know what people expect MM to do with the songs because as a drummer myself (In no way is that meant to imply I know more, i'm just saying.) what I hear is a drummer that supports the songs by orchestrating his parts in a very subtle and intricate way to fit the music. I don't think people appreciate enough how rythmically interesting and demanding his drum parts really are but then again maybe it's just my reflection on what kind of drummer/drumming I like. There's seems to be a thought with every drum beat, fill and rythmic figure that MM does right down to what sticking or rudiment he should play. If people think that makes his playing machine like then that's just something I don't agree with.

Just my two cents.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dvargas on January 28, 2016, 09:06:41 PM
The biggest mistake I made today:

While at work I listened to SDOIT disc 1.  :facepalm:

TA... not even remotely close.

Why would you compare them? SDOIT is written as a typical music album. TA is written as a musical.

If you listen to TA as a musical and judge it as a musical production, the musical choices all make sense, especially the recurring themes, the  not so lengthy development of "instrumental" ideas, etc.

TA is not even comparable to SFAM because SFAM, while a concept album with a narrative, is still written mostly as a typical music album, like Haken's Aquarius and Visions. TA, based on the flow and the composition, is really writeen as a musical theater production. Even the last song would give you the impression that it is where the "actors" would come back to the stage to take their bows and receive audience applause.

I am getting a sense here that DT has more plans for this project and they might actually explore making this an actual theatrical production because that is how it is written.

Kinda hard not to compare to DT's body of work. I know this is a musical/opera... whatev. But I happened to listen to SDOIT today.

If you had to rank albums... as we usually do here, would you not do it, because this is not written as a typical musical album.

Should I then compare this to The producers, Hairspray , the Sound of Music and other musicals instead?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: El Barto on January 28, 2016, 09:07:39 PM
Seriously though, this is just my personal opinion and taste. I do not connect with his uber-precise, dry drum sound. I like to hear the stick scraping over the rim, the imprecise hit of the hihat, I like dynamics. MM is not about that, I totally get that  (now). Doesn't mean I have to like it.
Which is why, and I'll reiterate, I look forward to seeing this played live. I think it'll all come across much better to my ears in that format. The sound is the bigger problem for me, and the overplaying exasperates that. A more raw live sound with, dare I say, a little sloppiness will make the whole thing more palatable and it's already sure to be fun to watch.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on January 28, 2016, 09:09:37 PM
I'm actually quite looking forward to the concert, for that , and many other reasons. For example, I feel strong visuals could really bind together the songs. I hope they work out a strong visual show for this.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertie_Wooster on January 28, 2016, 09:10:30 PM
SDOIT with fake symphony<  TA
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 28, 2016, 09:13:32 PM
I think it's safe to say they'll have big NOMAC's hanging by wires behind the band on stage but it will be ambitious if they somehow made them hover over the audience in the beginning or at various points during the show.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chego_voice on January 28, 2016, 09:15:20 PM
The third arrives...

Before the leaves have fallen
Before we lock the doors
There must be a third and last dance
This one will last forever
Metropolis watches and thoughtfully smiles
She's taken you to your home

It can only take place
When the struggle between our children has ended

Now the miracle and the sleeper know that the third is love

Love is the dance of eternity

sounds familiar?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: InFlames235 on January 28, 2016, 09:17:40 PM
I love this album. Easily my favorite one with Mangini in the band and beats some of the Portnoy albums as well. Right when some people accuse this band of just being bored and uninspired, they release this as their 13th album. Awesome.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Implode on January 28, 2016, 09:22:27 PM
Can we talk about how Hymn of a Thousand Voices  and Our New World don't sound like standard DT? This is like, the first time they've done this in a looong time. I didn't think they still had it in them.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on January 28, 2016, 09:26:51 PM
That's why Our New World is my favorite song on the album, yeah. Completely unexpected, different style.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: vbrodrigues95 on January 28, 2016, 09:28:08 PM
I think the theme from the intro of A Savior in the Square and Our New World might enter my all-time DT favourite along with intro/outro from TCOT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 28, 2016, 09:29:24 PM
Can we talk about how Hymn of a Thousand Voices  and Our New World don't sound like standard DT? This is like, the first time they've done this in a looong time. I didn't think they still had it in them.

When I think of DT playing something new in TA, first that comes to mind is A Life Left Behind. :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gm5k on January 28, 2016, 09:36:56 PM
Can we talk about how Hymn of a Thousand Voices  and Our New World don't sound like standard DT? This is like, the first time they've done this in a looong time. I didn't think they still had it in them.

When I think of DT playing something new in TA, first that comes to mind is A Life Left Behind. :)

Hymn of a Thousand Voices seems to be the climax of the album to me.  The songs after it are more of a...celebration/summary? do other people interpret it differently?   Either way my God is the ending of that song glorious.

Agree with those that said "Our New World" is incredible. 

Like some have said, that magic that existed in late 90's/early 00's DT is recaptured here and pretty often I think.  Such an inspired album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ZKX-2099 on January 28, 2016, 09:38:13 PM
I'm loving the whole album. Haven't been paying much attention to what song is playing and with the albums seamless flow I still can't say what songs are sticking out to me besides a few like Three Minutes, Lord Nafaryus and A New Beginning.

Love the bagpipe section, (never thought I would say that) very well done.

The Nomac tracks are cool. I gotta assume those were all Jordan messing around with various unknown, recently invented instruments and cell phone apps. Praise J-Rood.

This is the first album since SC I got a "fun" vibe from.

I wish they would have let the end bit of A New Beginning go on for about two or three more hours.

I do feel the album lacks a real "meaty" heavy song like TEI.

Just the right amount of reprises for me.

I think this album will only continue to get better with each listen. But I do think it's gonna be an album that I only listen to when I'm in a certain mood.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 28, 2016, 09:39:02 PM
I still have no way to hear it til midnight when I'm ASSUMING Amazon will give me quality mp3s.
I wrote this bit (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=45717.0) now inspired by this wait for the album, it's about Fessoy The Deaf, a nice rich farmer who lives in The Upper Yorke Bay and was born with no ears, which made him famous for this unique disfigurement, a year before the events of The Astonishing; a surgeon from Widow's Peak comes up with a way to make Fessoy hear. That night after the surgery he goes out with his family to hear the NOMAC's for the first time.. 
Yes I'm very ready -and already- immersed in the world of The Astonishing heh
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ZKX-2099 on January 28, 2016, 09:41:11 PM
Also... the start of Moment Of Betrayal reminds me of that one Garth Brooks song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 28, 2016, 09:42:47 PM
Can we talk about how Hymn of a Thousand Voices  and Our New World don't sound like standard DT? This is like, the first time they've done this in a looong time. I didn't think they still had it in them.

When I think of DT playing something new in TA, first that comes to mind is A Life Left Behind. :)

Hymn of a Thousand Voices seems to be the climax of the album to me.  The songs after it are more of a...celebration/summary? do other people interpret it differently?   Either way my God is the ending of that song glorious.

I think it is from the story POV, but looking at the musical as a whole, Our New World is the climax for me. Astonishing feels more like the part of the musical where the characters are coming out one by one to be recognized by the audience.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertie_Wooster on January 28, 2016, 09:44:14 PM
I still have no way to hear it til midnight when I'm ASSUMING Amazon will give me quality mp3s.
I wrote this bit (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=45717.0) now inspired by this wait for the album, it's about Fessoy The Deaf, a nice rich farmer who lives in The Upper Yorke Bay and was born with no ears, which made him famous for this unique disfigurement, a year before the events of The Astonishing; a surgeon from Widow's Peak comes up with a way to make Fessoy hear. That night after the surgery he goes out with his family to hear the NOMAC's for the first time.. 
Yes I'm very ready -and already- immersed in the world of The Astonishing heh
I liked the poem
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 28, 2016, 09:47:33 PM
I liked the poem

Haha thanks bro, I tried to make the Queso drip out of it :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: j on January 28, 2016, 09:47:41 PM
I haven't listened to much of this yet, just the first few tracks, but Dystopian Overture is the tits!

Unfortunately, though I don't doubt there will be some great music on this album, the very fact that it's over 2 hours long is gonna be prohibitive, since I never really have a chunk of free time that long to commit.  Hopefully enjoyment isn't contingent on an uninterrupted listening experience.

-J
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ZKX-2099 on January 28, 2016, 09:49:48 PM
I haven't listened to much of this yet, just the first few tracks, but Dystopian Overture is the tits!

Unfortunately, though I don't doubt there will be some great music on this album, the very fact that it's over 2 hours long is gonna be prohibitive, since I never really have a chunk of free time that long to commit.  Hopefully enjoyment isn't contingent on an uninterrupted listening experience.

-J

Nah. I've been skipping around.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: El Barto on January 28, 2016, 09:51:25 PM
I haven't listened to much of this yet, just the first few tracks, but Dystopian Overture is the tits!

Unfortunately, though I don't doubt there will be some great music on this album, the very fact that it's over 2 hours long is gonna be prohibitive, since I never really have a chunk of free time that long to commit.  Hopefully enjoyment isn't contingent on an uninterrupted listening experience.

-J
Yeah, I'm hep. This weekend I'm going to drive up to Texoma to visit some friends, which is the perfect length of time to listen to it twice and familiarize myself with it, yet the car I'm driving has no working CD player.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 28, 2016, 09:56:37 PM
I haven't listened to much of this yet, just the first few tracks, but Dystopian Overture is the tits!

Unfortunately, though I don't doubt there will be some great music on this album, the very fact that it's over 2 hours long is gonna be prohibitive, since I never really have a chunk of free time that long to commit.  Hopefully enjoyment isn't contingent on an uninterrupted listening experience.

-J

I have made a short playlist for my commute that includes these songs:

Savior in the Square
When Your Time Has Come
Act of Faythe
Three Days
A Life Left Behind
Ravenskill
A New Beginning
The Path That Divides
My Last Farewell
Losing Faythe
Our New World
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gm5k on January 28, 2016, 10:03:28 PM
For you Spotify guys it's now up for me here, central time zone  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chrisgazpacho on January 28, 2016, 10:04:07 PM
For you Spotify guys, it's now up for me here, central time zone  :metal

iTunes music is up as well.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Grizz on January 28, 2016, 10:05:57 PM
$34 for HDTracks?!?
Someone please tell me that the $15 CD was mastered with competence...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 28, 2016, 10:08:20 PM
$34 for HDTracks?!?
Someone please tell me that the $15 CD was mastered with competence...

The CD of The Astonishing has better mastering than the HDTracks version of DT12.

I have no idea how the HDTracks version of The Astonishing compares to the CD though. Hopefully when someone here buys it, they can do a comparison.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on January 28, 2016, 10:09:04 PM
Life Left Behind also has some very uncommon DT writing in it. Really like that tune (despite the Tempus Fugit opening).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Grizz on January 28, 2016, 10:11:32 PM
$34 for HDTracks?!?
Someone please tell me that the $15 CD was mastered with competence...

The CD of The Astonishing has better mastering than the HDTracks version of DT12.

I have no idea how the HDTracks version of The Astonishing compares to the CD though. Hopefully when someone here buys it, they can do a comparison.
Thank god, I thought I was gonna have to sell my Dad on the idea.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on January 28, 2016, 10:13:17 PM
Can't say the mastering bothered me. I doubt the purchase would be worth it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 28, 2016, 10:15:24 PM
I can't imagine it being a major difference like it is with DT12.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 28, 2016, 10:18:44 PM
The mastering on the CD actually makes it DT's most dynamic studio album since SFAM. I hope they continue with that. It makes the album so much more enjoyable to listen to.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on January 28, 2016, 10:20:34 PM
Am I the only one who thinks the title track slays Our New World? ONW is okay, but has a very ordinary feeling to it. Kind of like...Wither? (not a great comparison but couldn't think of a better analog). Astonishing, though...that ending...best two minutes of DT since Razor's Edge.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: evz on January 28, 2016, 10:21:23 PM
$34 for HDTracks?!?
Someone please tell me that the $15 CD was mastered with competence...

Usually there is a promo code (like 15-20% off)for new releases, unfortunately I haven't received the email with it yet, I usually don't get them until after 11 PST  :(
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 28, 2016, 10:23:25 PM
Am I the only one who thinks the title track slays Our New World? ONW is okay, but has a very ordinary feeling to it. Kind of like...Wither? (not a great comparison but couldn't think of a better analog). Astonishing, though...that ending...best two minutes of DT since Razor's Edge.
I really do like Our New World, but the title track is a great ending. I'm not sure why some people have said they don't understand why it's there. That ending is so over the top, I love it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lonestar on January 28, 2016, 10:25:19 PM
Downloading now...... (legitimately of course)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ZKX-2099 on January 28, 2016, 10:25:30 PM
More songs need James' maniacal laughing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 28, 2016, 10:26:51 PM
More songs need James' maniacal laughing.

I love that so much. It's cheesy but awesome.


And am I the only one who maniacally laughs along with it? :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dexter1225 on January 28, 2016, 10:27:10 PM
I just got the HDTracks promo email.  However, it doesn't seem to have come with the full lyric book, FYI
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RMGadelha on January 28, 2016, 10:28:48 PM
More songs need James' maniacal laughing.

I love that so much. It's cheesy but awesome.


And am I the only one who maniacally laughs along with it? :lol

Me too, haha. Not only his laughing, but also his screams during The Walking Shadow. "YOU MURDERER!!!!!!" It set the mood so damn well!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jdprsaga on January 28, 2016, 10:36:36 PM
After A few listening and a bit too much wine... I'm all into Nafaryus!!! all his songs  I'm like.. yeah this dude rocks!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 28, 2016, 10:39:29 PM
Not only his laughing, but also his screams during The Walking Shadow. "YOU MURDERER!!!!!!" It set the mood so damn well!
YESSS! I'm not normally a fan of screaming lyrics and stuff like that but this absolutely works.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Volante99 on January 28, 2016, 10:40:40 PM
Wow, overall what a great album!!

The writing is truly inspired, production is better, and the whole album just has so much heart and energy that's been lacking since at least Octavarium.

My only complaint is that some parts of the album feel bloated.
Certain songs sound like definite filler while other songs are rushed. I think if they had trimmed this album down by about a half hour and let the quality songs breathe a little, it could have been their best record since Awake. Overall it's really really good.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RMGadelha on January 28, 2016, 10:40:50 PM
After A few listening and a bit too much wine... I'm all into Nafaryus!!! all his songs  I'm like.. yeah this dude rocks!

"I am impressed
You brought us all to tears!"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pdurbin22 on January 28, 2016, 10:43:46 PM
Why the hell did the iTunes download not come with a digital booklet? I think I'm loving this but I am so lost!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gm5k on January 28, 2016, 10:44:46 PM
3:20 of "When Your Time Has Come" is so unique melodically to me and creates such a great atmosphere  :o
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 28, 2016, 10:46:22 PM
I think DT really scored a high this album in regards with them not holding back the epicness, the grandeur and the theatrics. Lord Nafaryus, Three Days and The Walking Shadow are three of my favorites because such elements are so present and in your face all the time.

Also, the ballads are incredible. The acoustic piano sounds absolutely amazing, and it made me recall that one of the things that people wanted the most about Rudess was more piano. Well, we now have an album in which the piano is the main instrument throughout. Amazing stuff.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RMGadelha on January 28, 2016, 10:46:54 PM
Not only his laughing, but also his screams during The Walking Shadow. "YOU MURDERER!!!!!!" It set the mood so damn well!
YESSS! I'm not normally a fan of screaming lyrics and stuff like that but this absolutely works.

The whole track works for me. The mood is so tragic and creepy. That ending describing "as the weapon..." was so unexpectedly awesome. Funny how one of my favorite tracks is one of the shortest ones :D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jdprsaga on January 28, 2016, 10:49:21 PM
BTW Manginni is freaking awesome in this album!!! even if not outspoken about it before, I did felt like he overplayed it in DT11 and DT12, but this time he just told me to shut!

And I agree with the some other guys here about that saviour in the square Intro!! WOW!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sacul on January 28, 2016, 10:50:22 PM
This is like DT meets Disney or Ayreon :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pdurbin22 on January 28, 2016, 10:53:34 PM
I'm still only about 50% through my first listen, but I will say this: anyone who thought Dream Theater was not deserving of the "progressive" descriptor of their genre will retract their words after hearing this. Love it or hate it, it's really, really different.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wideworldofmike on January 28, 2016, 10:54:39 PM
This album is shiny and new. Sooooooooo good.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 28, 2016, 10:54:56 PM
This is like DT meets Disney or Ayreon :P

There's this beautiful theme at the end of Begin Again that reminds me a lot of Disney. Good times.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pdurbin22 on January 28, 2016, 10:58:38 PM
"A New Beginning." Holy f**k are you serious? Dream Theater in a groove? Yes!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bankshot on January 28, 2016, 11:00:14 PM
I just got the HDTracks promo email.  However, it doesn't seem to have come with the full lyric book, FYI
I was about to reply saying my order did come with a PDF, but you're right - the PDF is just the cover image and nothing more. Normally I wouldn't care too much, but the booklet is kinda important to understand what's going with this album! Guess I'll be writing them an email to see if anything can be done.

And yikes, the $34 was a bit of a sticker shock compared to the $15 Amazon CD (which I just canceled yesterday when it was confirmed that HDTracks would have the album). Even with discount code it's almost twice the price. But I guess as a double album it's in line with other HDTracks prices.

Now to listen...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 28, 2016, 11:00:21 PM
This is like DT meets Disney or Ayreon :P
The Answer reminds me very much of some sort of Disney theme.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: blackmetal666 on January 28, 2016, 11:05:26 PM
Best album since Scenes from Memory.
Have done 8 complete listens at this point.

Haven't really liked any albums since six degrees much...but Astonishing has me floored.

This is as much as anyone could have hoped for at this point in their career.
That Dream Theater magic is back!!

So stoked about this album
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Implode on January 28, 2016, 11:07:00 PM
Can we talk about how Hymn of a Thousand Voices  and Our New World don't sound like standard DT? This is like, the first time they've done this in a looong time. I didn't think they still had it in them.

When I think of DT playing something new in TA, first that comes to mind is A Life Left Behind. :)

Life Left Behind also has some very uncommon DT writing in it. Really like that tune (despite the Tempus Fugit opening).

I'd say LLB still sounds like DT, but it very good light DT. It's my favorite on the album I think.



That's why Our New World is my favorite song on the album, yeah. Completely unexpected, different style.

And that might be my second favorite song at the moment. It's so....different. Just doesn't sound like them at all. It's great!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on January 28, 2016, 11:12:17 PM
I pre-oredered it from my local music store last week so it would be here by Friday.  I called today and the store owner forgot to order it.  I have to wait for another week to hear TA now...Arghh!!!  :censored
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 28, 2016, 11:13:19 PM
The Astonishing is definitely my top Dream Theater album. I have said earlier that this is not really comparable to the other DT studio albums in that it is written as a musical theater piece than a traditional studio music album. That said, hearing how it really flows so well as a 2-hour musical with the character themes remaining consistent and with a coherent metaphorical story, I can only marvel at the craftsmanship in writing and arranging this album. Other concept albums (including SFAM) really just uses the concept / narrative as an element attached to the songs, but this one really integrates the music and the concept seamlessly. This IS a story told through music, not an album of songs that just happened to have a story tacked onto it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Nel on January 28, 2016, 11:13:49 PM
My Youtube subscription feed is currently dominated by the official band channel uploading a shit-ton of tracks from the album.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pdurbin22 on January 28, 2016, 11:16:23 PM
"Moment of Betrayal" is 10X more badass within the context of the album. My initial opinion was "oh, this is cool, but it reminds me of Behind the Veil". As a kick-off to Act II, it's freaking stellar.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: j on January 28, 2016, 11:21:24 PM
I haven't listened to much of this yet, just the first few tracks, but Dystopian Overture is the tits!

Unfortunately, though I don't doubt there will be some great music on this album, the very fact that it's over 2 hours long is gonna be prohibitive, since I never really have a chunk of free time that long to commit.  Hopefully enjoyment isn't contingent on an uninterrupted listening experience.

-J
Yeah, I'm hep. This weekend I'm going to drive up to Texoma to visit some friends, which is the perfect length of time to listen to it twice and familiarize myself with it, yet the car I'm driving has no working CD player.  :lol

Bummer!  My car also has no working CD player.  :lol  And just last month I finished interviewing all over the place, plenty of rental car and plane time would have been ideal.  Guess we're SOL for the time being.

-J
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: evz on January 28, 2016, 11:21:37 PM
HDJAN29 - code for 15% off storewide at HDtracks...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 28, 2016, 11:22:34 PM
"Moment of Betrayal" is 10X more badass within the context of the album. My initial opinion was "oh, this is cool, but remind of Behind the Veil". As a kick-off to Act II, it's freaking stellar.

Yep, it's like it's the emotional release after the build-up from A Tempting Offer, The X Aspect, and Road To Revolution. Works very very well within the context of the story.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: As I Am on January 28, 2016, 11:24:14 PM
VERY good album. Quite different. Major props to JP!
8/10
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on January 28, 2016, 11:33:13 PM
VERY good album. Quite different. Major props to JP!
8/10

Well, I didn't think you would rate it that high. Actually, higher than me for that matter. OK, as this is thet thread dedicated to our reviews of TA, will copy-paste what I wrote in the other thread. Of course, my opinion might chhange after multipe listens :

Act 1 :

Down : too many tracks beginning with piano, making them too samey
            the drum sound still bothers me
            where is JM (as far as creativity is concerned)?

Up : some really nice melodies in there
        JLB is really good and has a lot to sing (paradoxically, I sometime found he had too much to sing)
        many new things never heard before in a DT album

Stand out tracks : The Gift of Music, Lord Nafaryus, A  Savior in the Square, Three Days, The X Aspect, A New Beginning



Act 2 : Better for me than Act 1, but it might change. Otherwise, it confirms my initial impressions : too much piano-driven tracks and too many slow (for lack of a better word) tracks. A lot of new things explored but also some things heard before in their catalogue. Ja mes is really really good and it is really his album, more so than Rudess's in my opinion. Frankly, no guitar solo has really grabbed my ear so far.

Stand out tracks : Moment of Betrayal, The Path that Divides, Our New World (OMG! What a treat! Much too short anyways), Astonishing

All in all, kuddos to the guys for having tried something like that so late in their career. May not be their best album, but it's really a great effort to expand theit musical universe.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DragonAttack on January 28, 2016, 11:34:40 PM
I get chills at times.  There's just soooo much to take in.  Almost wish it was three hours, because there's plenty of melodies that could have been repeated a few more times.  This is going to be great on stage.

note to those without car cd players or sitting in airports and airplanes:  get a Walkman.  The perfect travel companion.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pdurbin22 on January 28, 2016, 11:38:59 PM
So is Act II being overlooked by many simply because of fatigue?  I gotta say - it's edging out Act I for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 28, 2016, 11:39:44 PM
So DTF, DT are uploading the album to their YouTube but the video is still locked on the website. WHAT THE HELL IS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 28, 2016, 11:41:53 PM
The moment has finally come!!!!         Some quick thoughts:   

I am through the song "Chosen" and have only listened to everything once so I expect my opinions to change drastically as is usually the case with DT.   Not to mention the fact that I still have 19 more tracks to go!!!

The Good:

 Sound is excellent, its beautiful to listen to a DT album that sounds great again.   
 Labrie sounds fantastic
The musicianship and creativity is top notch
There are already plenty of moments where I thought "wow thats the best thing they have done since SDOIT"
Dystopian Overture is FREAKING AWESOME!
I love the theatricality of the voices etc...   although I am hoping there is more of this as the album progresses.   

The Bad:

Its extremely ballad heavy.  There are moments when you expect the songs to be up beat and rock out and then it just goes right back to a ballad.  As good as JLB is on this album there is almost too much of him and Petrucci is surprisingly low in the mix at times.   I am someone who loves the prog side of DT and prefers the less metal side but even I think they could have rocked out a bit more so far through 15 tracks.


One thing is for certain, this is the different, unique, and fresh sounding album we have all been pining for since SDOIT.    Overall the good far outweighs the bad and I am sure that many of the songs that feel like "fluff" to me right now will grow on me a ton.

 



Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 28, 2016, 11:45:19 PM
Its extremely ballad heavy.  There are moments when you expect the songs to be up beat and rock out and then it just goes right back to a ballad.  As good as JLB is on this album there is almost too much of him and Petrucci is surprisingly low in the mix at times.   I am someone who loves the prog side of DT and prefers the less metal side but even I think they could have rocked out a bit more so far through 15 tracks.
After Chosen is actually where a lot of the more upbeat / heavier tracks are.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 28, 2016, 11:45:44 PM
I'm waiting until the CD drops onto my doormat before listening. But still, the big day is finally here! Happy Release Day, everyone!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on January 28, 2016, 11:46:25 PM
I've spoken a lot about my wish for change, stuff "outside the box" of DT's standard prog metal.

Well, holy shit, I've gotten my wish. This album is fantastic.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 28, 2016, 11:46:47 PM
Nice!  Excited to hear that!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 28, 2016, 11:54:11 PM
So is Act II being overlooked by many simply because of fatigue?

I'm wondering that myself, and I think time will tell if that's the case or not. Personally I've found very little that grabs me from Act II so far, aside from Our New World, but I'm not sure whether I'm just worn out after 80 minutes of Act I.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gm5k on January 28, 2016, 11:57:36 PM
JP and JR are such geniuses  :lol

Who else creates some of their best work ever 30 years in?  I haven't been this floored by the band since watching LAB for the first time.  Not even close.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 12:00:04 AM
So is Act II being overlooked by many simply because of fatigue?  I gotta say - it's edging out Act I for me.

I actually look at the story now as consisting of three acts. Act 1 is up to Three Days, all of this is set-up and intro the world being built (10 songs, 37+ minutes). Act 2 is Hovering Sojourn up to Road to Revolution, which contained the plot twists (Faythe and Gabriel, Daryus vs. Road to Revolution, Faythe and Nefaryus) (10 songs, 42+ minutes). Act 3 is the current Act 2 up to Our New World (12 songs, 43+ minutes)which is the climax and resolution of the plot developments in "Act 2" . Power Down and Astonishing is the curtain call. The album looks more balanced to me that way. :)

I also find it amusing that the NOMAC tracks appear to mark Daryus moments.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: LCArenas on January 29, 2016, 12:04:03 AM
Listening right now. Fuck me, this might be JLB's best performance since SFAM, but I don't want to make judgments this soon. I'll wait and hear.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: kneepel on January 29, 2016, 12:09:44 AM
On another listen through, getting more into it and I can definitely say it beats DT12.

There are some really cringe moments lyrically though, and it's way too heavy on the ballads and orchestral parts
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 29, 2016, 12:10:41 AM
I'm about to leave for lectures. I really hope i see the CD in the mailbox when i walk outside. I just can't wait anymore to listen to it :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: LCArenas on January 29, 2016, 12:11:36 AM
On another listen through, getting more into it and I can definitely say it beats DT13.
Glad to hear! Every DT album needs to best itself :neverusethis:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thierry on January 29, 2016, 12:14:04 AM
I've listened it in full over Spotify. I have to say I don't like it at all, too much ballads.

Hopefully this is a grower, I'll try to listen to it again later.

Very weak.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bankshot on January 29, 2016, 12:16:32 AM
"A New Beginning." Holy f**k are you serious? Dream Theater in a groove? Yes!
This could be an early favorite for me. I could listen to them jam that last part for like 20 minutes. In fact, it would be awesome if they did that in the live show to give James a little break before the end of Act I.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 29, 2016, 12:16:48 AM
I've listened it in full over Spotify. I have to say I don't like it at all, too much ballads.

Hopefully this is a grower, I'll try to listen to it again later.

Very weak.

Can't say I've ever liked the ballady side of DT, and I've heard the album 3 times. I can't say I'll be listening to them much  :'(
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TempusVox on January 29, 2016, 12:17:45 AM
I know it's hard to do, but try and give it a listen without comparing it to anything else they've ever done. Imagine you'd never heard DT until now.

I'm blown away. Just blown away.

Listening to Act of Faythe.  Lord Jesus!

Love it.

JLB is brilliant.


CDs coming. Couldn't wait, bought it on Amazon Prime.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 29, 2016, 12:21:17 AM
Lord Nafaryus sounds so much like a Muse song but I can't pin down what (because I'm not a muse fan and don't really like them) but I though it was 'Butterflies and Hurricanes', any Muse fans recognize what it is?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on January 29, 2016, 12:39:25 AM
Lord Nafaryus sounds so much like a Muse song but I can't pin down what (because I'm not a muse fan and don't really like them) but I though it was 'Butterflies and Hurricanes', any Muse fans recognize what it is?

At the same time, Muse sound alot like Queen at times. And for me, LN sounds more like Queen than Muse.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2016, 12:43:49 AM
Lord Nafaryus sounds so much like a Muse song but I can't pin down what (because I'm not a muse fan and don't really like them) but I though it was 'Butterflies and Hurricanes', any Muse fans recognize what it is?

At the same time, Muse sound alot like Queen at times. And for me, LN sounds more like Queen than Muse.

B.Lee

It's the vibrato that does it. The vocals sound more Freddy Mercury inspired to me, similar to how JLB sang on their Queen cover.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on January 29, 2016, 12:44:00 AM
Mine's still 'in the mail', so reading all these comments is Grrrrrr......severe case of blue balls over here....  :'(
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 29, 2016, 12:45:52 AM
Lord Nafaryus sounds so much like a Muse song but I can't pin down what (because I'm not a muse fan and don't really like them) but I though it was 'Butterflies and Hurricanes', any Muse fans recognize what it is?

At the same time, Muse sound alot like Queen at times. And for me, LN sounds more like Queen than Muse.

B.Lee

It's the vibrato that does it. The vocals sound more Freddy Mercury inspired to me, similar to how JLB sang on their Queen cover.

Well, I'm talking musically, Its the piano/strings part around 0:45
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2016, 12:48:14 AM
Lord Nafaryus sounds so much like a Muse song but I can't pin down what (because I'm not a muse fan and don't really like them) but I though it was 'Butterflies and Hurricanes', any Muse fans recognize what it is?

At the same time, Muse sound alot like Queen at times. And for me, LN sounds more like Queen than Muse.

B.Lee

It's the vibrato that does it. The vocals sound more Freddy Mercury inspired to me, similar to how JLB sang on their Queen cover.

Well, I'm talking musically, Its the piano/strings part around 0:45

Oh, ok. I didn't get a strong Queen vibe from the music, but the vocals reminded me of Freddy Mercury. I kinda understand it though, with the very theatrical and eclectic nature of it.
And I've never listened to Muse, outside of the DT comparison songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 29, 2016, 12:56:15 AM
Am I the one only who finds it hard to distinguish when James changes vocal style between the characters? After all the talk about him being brilliant in portraying serveral different characters throughout the album, I am glad to have the lyrics to see where he switches from character to character. It's probably just my hearing though :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tabs on January 29, 2016, 12:58:07 AM
Can someone tell me who Evangeline is in relation to the other characters?

She's Arhys's wife who died giving birth to Xander. Arhys pledges to always protect Xander and win the war against the empire to give him a better life.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tabs on January 29, 2016, 01:00:23 AM
Am I the one only who finds it hard to distinguish when James changes vocal style between the characters? After all the talk about him being brilliant in portraying serveral different characters throughout the album, I am glad to have the lyrics to see where he switches from character to character. It's probably just my hearing though :P

I actually think it's extremely well done - like compare Act of Faythe to A Tempting Offer - you can totally hear that Faythe has this more angelic head and falsetto voice versus Daryus with the more gruff male voice. James did an amazing job on this - I think it might be his best performance of any DT album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Meatrose on January 29, 2016, 01:02:29 AM
Haven't listened to the album yet. Skimmed through some intros and segments on Spotify but I just bought the FLAC version on HDtracks so I'm going to wait until I get off work to take it for a spin.  :yarr
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 29, 2016, 01:04:27 AM

And I've never listened to Muse, outside of the DT comparison songs.
[/quote]
Neither, but it stuck out to me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2016, 01:05:03 AM
Am I the one only who finds it hard to distinguish when James changes vocal style between the characters? After all the talk about him being brilliant in portraying serveral different characters throughout the album, I am glad to have the lyrics to see where he switches from character to character. It's probably just my hearing though :P

I can for some characters, not for others. Gabriel and Arhys sound exactly the same to me (although they are brothers, so it would make sense). Nafaryus usually sounds gruff, but that's not consistent. Faythe is most distinctive with the lighter tone. Overall though, I haven't noticed a lot of the changes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TH1RT3EN on January 29, 2016, 01:05:58 AM
Didn't Daryus kidnap Xander? The lyrics for The Path That Divides say that Xander followed his father to Heaven's Cove, so that means he escaped Daryus' captivity? Or he was never even kidnaped to begin with? :huh:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YtseJamittaja on January 29, 2016, 01:10:07 AM
I really love A Life Left Behind intro!  :heart


Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TempusVox on January 29, 2016, 01:11:57 AM
Damn, THAT GROOVE, AND SOLO. Amazing!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YtseJamittaja on January 29, 2016, 01:16:14 AM
Wonder when we have forum users named lordnafarus, arhys, xander, gabriel, daryus or whatever Astonishing related  :D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 01:16:33 AM
Am I the one only who finds it hard to distinguish when James changes vocal style between the characters? After all the talk about him being brilliant in portraying serveral different characters throughout the album, I am glad to have the lyrics to see where he switches from character to character. It's probably just my hearing though :P

I can for some characters, not for others. Gabriel and Arhys sound exactly the same to me (although they are brothers, so it would make sense). Nafaryus usually sounds gruff, but that's not consistent. Faythe is most distinctive with the lighter tone. Overall though, I haven't noticed a lot of the changes.

The change is more of a combo of instruments and voice. I hear it more like this:

March / Prog rock / soaring voice - Arhys
Distinct piano melody / soft voice - Faythe
Acoustic guitar / breathy gentle melodic male vocals (with exception of My Last Farewell) :lol - Gabriel
Tango and "older" music forms (mostly in a modified heavy style) - Nafaryus
Metal - Daryus (he even raps, so he's Mike Portnoy?  :lol )
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TioJorge on January 29, 2016, 01:20:35 AM
Daryus

Portnoyus


COINCIDENCE
!?

I THINK NOT.


HALF LIFE 3 CONFIRMED.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YtseJamittaja on January 29, 2016, 01:24:01 AM
2:09 - The Path That Divides - strong Symphony X influence
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: alexofsweden on January 29, 2016, 01:30:47 AM
Negative:

I wish i could like the album, but i can´t...all i hear is ballads alá The Spirit Carries On. I´m going to give it a couple of spins before a completly give up, but for now i´m very dissapointed.
Mangini´s playing doesn´t do it for me, always the same machine gun snare fills. His double kicks sometimes seems out of place and makes no sense. He´s a very skilled drummer though, but it feels too mechanical and stiff!

Positive:

It sounds great
Very smooth playing and solos from Petrucci, as always
Labrie haven´t sounded better, very diverse singing
Jordan is Jordan


I really hope this album grows into me, cause i´ve never experienced wanting to turn of an Dream Theater album halfway through before...been listening to them since they released Awake.

My spontanious feeling right now: I want Portnoy back...i really do
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 29, 2016, 01:34:58 AM
Just finished the entire album.   Definitely need to listen several more times but I will give my overall thoughts after the first listen:

I am going to get the bad stuff out of the way first:

There is a lot to love here but there are about 10 songs that sound like they could be straight out of the movie Pocahontas.  There are even some fantastic overall songs that still have parts  that seem to drift back into Pocahontas territory.  Imagine beginning of Along for the Ride and the entirety of Losing Time playing on repeat over and over.   My hope is that many of the melodies that didn't grab me on first listen start to grow on me and I certainly would not at all be surprised if that happened.  There are so many incredible ideas on this album but many of them seem underdeveloped in favor of quickly going back to sappy ballads.  Ok... thats the bad. 


Now onto the good stuff.   Although there are several indistinguishable ballads (on first listen) there are also several incredible moments on this album.  The sound quality is excellent and the album really does feel like a more bombastic version of SDOIT.   While I don't think it has the focus and tightness of SDOIT, there are several moments that would fit right into that album.

Everybody in the band kills it as usual although I wish Myung had more distinguishable parts.   I think Mangini does a fine job here. 

This is album as a whole is undoubtedly their best since TOT and maybe even SDOIT due to the improved style, sound, and sheer grandiosity of it. With that said the jury is still out as to whether the song writing holds up and whether the many "filler" tracks start to reveal their qualities.

I basically went through the entire first listen ignoring the lyrics also so I have yet to immerse myself in this Dystopian storyline.  That will likely come on listen 4 or 5 for me. 

Overall I am super stoked to have this album now and plan on listening to it many times.   

Early stand outs if I can recall for me are :   Dystopian Overture, Three Days, Our New World.   
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: GasparXR on January 29, 2016, 01:35:19 AM
Did anyone else get a Celestial Elixir vibe as soon as Astonishing started?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on January 29, 2016, 01:37:10 AM
Just a few highlights so far:

JR has some really beautiful piano moments, I love his intro to A Tempting Offer.
I think this is MMs best drum orchestration yet, the thought of having to memorize all his parts on the album live haunts me.
I'm so glad I can say that for once i'm really really impressed with JLB, will be cool hearing this live with parts that suits his voice.
JP in beast mode on this album atleast in term of solos.
I can definitely hear the theatrical in this album which makes me all giddy seeing this behemoth performed live, can't wait!

Favourites so far:

Three Days
Ravenskill
A Life Left Behind (Awesome intro)


Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TioJorge on January 29, 2016, 01:37:54 AM

There is a lot to love here but there are about 10 songs that sound like they could be straight out of the movie Pocahontas.  There are even some fantastic overall songs that still have parts  that seem to drift back into Pocahontas territory.     

Wait...




WAIT.

 :lol :lol :rollin :rollin This is awesome. I am not nearly familiar enough with the movie but bless you sweet child. Bless you.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: undertower on January 29, 2016, 01:38:07 AM
I've been a huge DT fan for about 12 years. And this is the first album I totally dislike after the first listen. Utter disappointment.
The story's been used for I don't know how many times. I always liked to believe that DT have a kind of esoteric vibe about them, but with this album we got a metal DISNEY drama. And it's so overpolished and uninspired that the only human element bringing something sonically new and showing some sort of experimentation in stagnating DT-machine are the freaking tracks "written" by NOMACs.

Don't want to be a party ruiner, but we're all entitled to our opinion here, right? :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 29, 2016, 01:39:51 AM
If I recall the intro to A Life Left Behind was so fantastic and I was so excited for the upbeatness of the song and it drifted right back into ballady territory.   This album can be frustrating to listen to despite its many qualities.   Again, this is just one listen through so next time I'm sure I will be more mentally prepared for the constant balladry.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 01:41:47 AM
"always the same machine gun snare fills"

OK, to confirm this, I listened to Our New World and there is not one machine gun snare fill.

Listened to A New Beginning, max of at least two that can be interpreted as a machine gun snare fill.

Those are just two songs. I'm betting if you go through the other songs, you would find that the machine gun snare fills are not all over the place.

Mangini's drumming is really not focused on fills anyway. It's in orchestration, highlighting what the other instruments are doing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on January 29, 2016, 01:42:18 AM
I've been a huge DT fan for about 12 years. And this is the first album I totally dislike after the first listen. Utter disappointment.
The story's been used for I don't know how many times. I always liked to believe that DT have a kind of esoteric vibe about them, but with this album we got a metal DISNEY drama. And it's so overpolished and uninspired that the only human element bringing something sonically new and showing some sort of experimentation is stagnating DT-machine are the freaking tracks "written" by NOMACs.

Don't want to be a party ruiner, but we're all entitled to our opinion here, right? :)

I'm not sure how you can ever pair this album up with "not experimental". Compare it to the last 4 DT albums and say it's less experimental than those. Get out of here.  :lol
I can totally get why someone would not be into this album and can see the Disney thing, but god I can't respect the opinion that this isn't inspired or experimental.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on January 29, 2016, 01:48:45 AM
It's almost 3 in the morning, and I'm just now on losing Faythe. First impressions are very positive, but I have a few gripes. I'm not even going to try to say what I think until the morning because there's so much to digest  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 29, 2016, 01:50:11 AM
This is the first time since TOT that I felt like true inspiration went into the making of the album.  Although 34 songs sounds like an amazingly exciting idea, I think the album would be getting a better reception had they edited it down to about 15 songs.

There is a brilliant focus and tightness of an album like SFAM and I fear this one suffers from a lack of editing.  Sometimes less is more. 

With that said, I don't really have an issue with some filler tracks with beautiful piano and nice vocals from Labrie but it may end up detracting from the overall ranking of the album.   

Time will tell as I have only had one full listen and I may be off base proclaiming these songs as filler.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: undertower on January 29, 2016, 01:53:44 AM
I'm not sure how you can ever pair this album up with "not experimental". Compare it to the last 4 DT albums and say it's less experimental than those. Get out of here.  :lol
I can totally get why someone would not be into this album and can see the Disney thing, but god I can't respect the opinion that this isn't inspired or experimental.

It may be an experiment in terms of form (storyline etc.), but musically.. I honestly don't see signs of further development. "we've heard it all before." And it's the only DT album that sounds exactly as the previous one.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 01:54:08 AM
This is the first time since TOT that I felt like true inspiration went into the making of the album.  Although 34 songs sounds like an amazingly exciting idea, I think the album would be getting a better reception had they edited it down to about 15 songs.

There is a brilliant focus and tightness of an album like SFAM and I fear this one suffers from a lack of editing.  Sometimes less is more. 

With that said, I don't really have an issue with some filler tracks with beautiful piano and nice vocals from Labrie but it may end up detracting from the overall ranking of the album.   

Time will tell as I have only had one full listen and I may be off base proclaiming these songs as filler.

If you listen to it as a musical, not as the usual music album, you would see that there really are no fillers in this album. The narrative in itself is not that straightforward, with about three subplots going by the middle of the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on January 29, 2016, 01:54:36 AM
Less is absolutely not more for this album. There is no filler here.

And it's the only DT album that sounds exactly as the previous one.

what

like





what
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 01:56:56 AM
I'm not sure how you can ever pair this album up with "not experimental". Compare it to the last 4 DT albums and say it's less experimental than those. Get out of here.  :lol
I can totally get why someone would not be into this album and can see the Disney thing, but god I can't respect the opinion that this isn't inspired or experimental.

It may be an experiment in terms of form (storyline etc.), but musically.. I honestly don't see signs of further development. "we've heard it all before." And it's the only DT album that sounds exactly as the previous one.

So...what song in the Dream Theater album sounds exactly like Our New World, Lord Nafaryus, A Life Left Behind, Hymn of a Thousand Voices and Three Days?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 29, 2016, 01:57:06 AM
This album sounds NOTHING like any DT album post SDOIT... not sure how anyone would come to that conclusion.  I think melodically is has some similarities to some of their albums post TOT, however, the sonic quality and production is COMPLETELY different.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dellers on January 29, 2016, 01:57:52 AM
$34 for HDTracks?!?
Someone please tell me that the $15 CD was mastered with competence...

The CD of The Astonishing has better mastering than the HDTracks version of DT12.

I have no idea how the HDTracks version of The Astonishing compares to the CD though. Hopefully when someone here buys it, they can do a comparison.
Really? I don't have the album yet, so I don't know if this is accurate, but I found this:
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/46804
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/102647

CD version for me then, although I'd pay more for a better master. 24 bit/96 kHz doesn't matter after the mixing is done.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on January 29, 2016, 02:00:27 AM
This sounds like DT12? ....  ??? :huh:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2016, 02:00:33 AM
There are obviously some similarities between DT12 and TA (and older albums), since it's a progression of sound, but how anyone could think they sound exactly the same, I'm at a loss.

Lyrically, every track has a purpose, but musically there is a decent amount of redundancy and sameyness they could have maybe cut down on. The problem with a concept album / rock opera is that it's sort of an all or nothing deal to me. It's hard to just enjoy a few tracks out of context, because it's just a segment of it. That wasn't a problem on SFAM, since that is as close to musical perfection as it gets, but it's harder when you only dig 1/3 of a rock opera.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on January 29, 2016, 02:04:33 AM
There actually is more sonic overlap with DT12 than you might think at first blush. If you gave stuff like TLG, TBP, and the last five minutes of IT (non-easter egg) this production (and rewrote the lyrics so they fit some part of the story), I think they'd fit well on the album.

That said, obviously there are many moments that have absolutely no precedent in the DT discography, like the Three Days outro or A Life Left Behind intro. And the songs really pack a ton of twists and turns into short runtimes, which is something DT hasn't really done since...The Killing Hand, really. And TKH is longer than anything on this album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2016, 02:04:36 AM
$34 for HDTracks?!?
Someone please tell me that the $15 CD was mastered with competence...

The CD of The Astonishing has better mastering than the HDTracks version of DT12.

I have no idea how the HDTracks version of The Astonishing compares to the CD though. Hopefully when someone here buys it, they can do a comparison.
Really? I don't have the album yet, so I don't know if this is accurate, but I found this:
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/46804
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/102647

CD version for me then, although I'd pay more for a better master. 24 bit/96 kHz doesn't matter after the mixing is done.

While it's a solid objective number, DR numbers alone aren't the be-all of comparison in this case. The HDTracks version of DT12 is essentially the same master as the CD, including compression, the only difference is the lack of limiter stage, so the HDTracks version has a lot of occasional huge volume spikes/peaks that got cut off on the CD so it could be louder, giving the impression of a lot more dynamic range to the DR meter, when in fact there's not as big a difference as it would appear. It becomes much more apparent if you compare the waveforms in an audio program.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pax on January 29, 2016, 02:06:32 AM
Too bad I cannot read the whole thread, still haven't read the lyrics, so I don't want to get spoiled

Anyways:
I was listening it with friends, and they got bored by the act I, so I couldn't enjoy it as much as I would do if I listened to it alone. But I really felt that I will love those ballads in the future, I felt soul in them.

And act II, no comment, really mad sections I will surely love, just have to digest the whole thing.

The only thing I don't like is that they are not repetitive at all. They build up the tension, a mad part comes, I'm like :O but it lasts too short, and returns to a balladish part. I hope I will get used to those annoying plot twists

Also ,pleasantly surprised by nomac tracks, loved every one of them
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 02:07:40 AM
There are obviously some similarities between DT12 and TA (and older albums), since it's a progression of sound, but how anyone could think they sound exactly the same, I'm at a loss.

Lyrically, every track has a purpose, but musically there is a decent amount of redundancy and sameyness they could have maybe cut down on. The problem with a concept album / rock opera is that it's sort of an all or nothing deal to me. It's hard to just enjoy a few tracks out of context, because it's just a segment of it. That wasn't a problem on SFAM, since that is as close to musical perfection as it gets, but it's harder when you only dig 1/3 of a rock opera.

I think it really is because of a difference in approach. SFAM is written as a music album. It is very enjoyable to listen to. But can you stage it as an actual musical without modifying the content? I think you can not, there are too many lengthy instrumental portions.

TA, on the other hand, really feels like it was written as a musical. I don't think any modification needs to be done and they can already stage this as an actual musical play.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2016, 02:08:59 AM
There are obviously some similarities between DT12 and TA (and older albums), since it's a progression of sound, but how anyone could think they sound exactly the same, I'm at a loss.

Lyrically, every track has a purpose, but musically there is a decent amount of redundancy and sameyness they could have maybe cut down on. The problem with a concept album / rock opera is that it's sort of an all or nothing deal to me. It's hard to just enjoy a few tracks out of context, because it's just a segment of it. That wasn't a problem on SFAM, since that is as close to musical perfection as it gets, but it's harder when you only dig 1/3 of a rock opera.

I think it really is because of a difference in approach. SFAM is written as a music album. It is very enjoyable to listen to. But can you stage it as an actual musical without modifying the content? I think you can not, there are too many lengthy instrumental portions.

TA, on the other hand, really feels like it was written as a musical. I don't think any modification needs to be done and they can already stage this as an actual musical play.

Absolutely. The only comparison I was drawing was that they're both written as a greater whole, but TA truly is a rock opera as opposed to SFAM's concept album. That unfortunately means it's even more difficult for me to enjoy a track here and there on TA, because that's not how it was written and designed to be listened to. SFAM still overall works well as individual tracks despite the story because it was still written to work that way.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: adamack on January 29, 2016, 02:11:44 AM
Let me first say that this album has given me more joy and excitement upon the first listen than any other album I can remember.

It will easily end up in my top 5 DT albums over time, and has a serious shot at the top 3. At this point, I have pretty much just accepted that nothing will ever top SFAM. But TA could end up close!

I do have some gripes with the album so far. (Ahem....another ballad?....ahem....hasn't this song been written before?....ahem....too much Velveeta) Surprising for a DT fan, eh?

But I will reserve them for the moment, and will just focus on enjoying the album for now, because it is awesome!

FAV SONGS

Ravenskill - Fav song at the moment. I am flabbergasted that I haven't seen many people talk about this one. That opening piano?? That huge riff at 2:23?? I suppose the only part I don't like is how the end of the song builds into another epic "finale" sound, which seemed to be overused on this album :(  Amazing song though!!

Three Days - Just awesome beginning to end. My fav LaBrie on the album....so great in character here.

A Better Life - Strong candidate to become my favorite overall.

Dystopian Overture - Better than 1928? Almost impossibly, it might be! It is just too difficult to explain how good this is.

Chosen - When listening to the "Can't climb this mountain without you" chorus, my head keeps telling me, "Come on man. You KNOW this is already a song. This melody has been used at least a thousand times over the years." But my ears don't care. Beautiful song.

My Last Farewell - This was my favorite song on the first listen through. Couple of uneasy chord changes in the beginning which make the mood shift instantly.

Hymn Of A Thousand Voices - So different...great country vibe. Love the church feel of the ending!

The X Aspect - My favorite JR on the album. The intro piece is wonderful! The mood change at around 2:22 is so awesome.

Lord Nafaryus

Brother Can You Hear Me?

A New Beginning

Songs I dislike? Absolutely none. Even my least favorites ("The Astonishing" comes to mind) are still great songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on January 29, 2016, 02:14:26 AM
1:45 of Dystopian Overture is just so fucking cool, as well as all the major stuff from 2:21 on
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 02:15:22 AM
I think it really is because of a difference in approach. SFAM is written as a music album. It is very enjoyable to listen to. But can you stage it as an actual musical without modifying the content? I think you can not, there are too many lengthy instrumental portions.

TA, on the other hand, really feels like it was written as a musical. I don't think any modification needs to be done and they can already stage this as an actual musical play.

Absolutely. The only comparison I was drawing was that they're both written as a greater whole, but TA truly is a rock opera as opposed to SFAM's concept album. That unfortunately means it's even more difficult for me to enjoy a track here and there on TA, because that's not how it was written and designed to be listened to. SFAM still overall works well as individual tracks despite the story because it was still written to work that way.

I am starting to think that JP may actually have bigger plans for this one because one does not just write a real rock opera if there is no intention for it to be staged as one.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2016, 02:17:34 AM

I am starting to think that JP may actually have bigger plans for this one because one does not just write a real rock opera if there is no intention for it to be staged as one.


We're still yet to see how it's presented live. For all we know, JLB will have 56 costume changes during the show. :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 02:19:32 AM
I'd love for this album to do for Dream Theater what American Idiot did for Green Day.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 29, 2016, 02:20:36 AM

I am starting to think that JP may actually have bigger plans for this one because one does not just write a real rock opera if there is no intention for it to be staged as one.


We're still yet to see how it's presented live. For all we know, JLB will have 56 costume changes during the show. :P

Or those costumes where there's two halves (two characters) so he turns left and right depending on which character he is.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 02:25:17 AM

I am starting to think that JP may actually have bigger plans for this one because one does not just write a real rock opera if there is no intention for it to be staged as one.


We're still yet to see how it's presented live. For all we know, JLB will have 56 costume changes during the show. :P

Or those costumes where there's two halves (two characters) so he turns left and right depending on which character he is.

OMG, we have noontime shows here in the Philippines where performers still do that (for laughs, of course).  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 02:26:31 AM
Our New World intro  :metal :metal :clap:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TioJorge on January 29, 2016, 02:28:38 AM

I am starting to think that JP may actually have bigger plans for this one because one does not just write a real rock opera if there is no intention for it to be staged as one.


We're still yet to see how it's presented live. For all we know, JLB will have 56 costume changes during the show. :P

Or those costumes where there's two halves (two characters) so he turns left and right depending on which character he is.

He just needs to do this every time theres a character change and everything will be right in the world:

(https://s18.postimg.org/g6i7iqbhh/labrie_dance.gif)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2016, 02:29:42 AM

I am starting to think that JP may actually have bigger plans for this one because one does not just write a real rock opera if there is no intention for it to be staged as one.


We're still yet to see how it's presented live. For all we know, JLB will have 56 costume changes during the show. :P

Or those costumes where there's two halves (two characters) so he turns left and right depending on which character he is.

:lol That would be amazing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 02:31:01 AM
Our New World intro  :metal :metal :clap:

If they released this in the early 1990s, this would shoot up to #1 in the rock charts. What an amazing 4-minute plus song.

A New Beginning compositionally I think is the best song in this album, but Our New World is just so...triumphant. Dream Theater has written some anthemic songs before, but this is THE anthem. The first time I heard it, I teared up, and it still gets me every time I listen to it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CoT67 on January 29, 2016, 02:31:20 AM
THAT solo on A Saviour in The Square. If anyone knows of Marco Sfogli from JLB solo band, JP seems to have taken a page from his style... it just sounds so close. Quite funny, since Sfogli took from JP first :biggrin: :metal

Also the combo A Saviour In The Square - When Your Time Has Come is probably my favourite right now...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 02:34:50 AM
Also. Thank Fuck they didn't brickwall this album.

it would have completely ruined it.

Best sounding album since Octavarium ?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 02:36:12 AM
THAT solo on A Saviour in The Square. If anyone knows of Marco Sfogli from JLB solo band, JP seems to have taken a page from his style... it just sounds so close. Quite funny, since Sfogli took from JP first :biggrin: :metal

Also the combo A Saviour In The Square - When Your Time Has Come is probably my favourite right now...

That combo is what sold me to the album. After I listened to that, when I started to entertain the thought that this album could be something really special. And I was not disappointed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jayvee3 on January 29, 2016, 02:45:19 AM
I know many can often disregard shorter songs, hence why t's been barely mentioned, but wow - "The Answer' is a beautiful 1:53's worth  of music. This is just a superb album.  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on January 29, 2016, 02:46:12 AM
Best sounding album since Octavarium ?

I'd say so. I actually prefer the drum sound on this album to octavarium. My biggest problem with octavarium's drum sound is how limp he kick drum is. I like them to sound tight and defined.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SkiFiX on January 29, 2016, 02:49:42 AM
It would be amazing if the same production of Theater of Equation was contacted by dream theater for doing a similar project with "the astonishing".

(https://wp.livereviewer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Theater-Equation-19.jpg)

It would be interesting knowing which character James prefers in a full theatrical version.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RaasMah on January 29, 2016, 02:59:00 AM
The most brutal thing ever is "A New Beginning" fading out in the middle of that incredible Petrucci solo.  :facepalm:

I agree with this completely, so far my only real grump about the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2016, 02:59:04 AM
Best sounding album since Octavarium ?

I'd say so. I actually prefer the drum sound on this album to octavarium. My biggest problem with octavarium's drum sound is how limp he kick drum is. I like them to sound tight and defined.

The drum sound is actually the major area where I'd give Octavarium the edge. :lol That and the bass. I wish Octavarium (and every album since) had the mastering of TA though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 29, 2016, 03:02:26 AM
My CD has just arrived! Saving the first full listen for this evening, but I'll listen to bits of it now, to get my bearings a bit.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 03:08:12 AM
The most brutal thing ever is "A New Beginning" fading out in the middle of that incredible Petrucci solo.  :facepalm:

I agree with this completely, so far my only real grump about the album.

Would be preferable to extend it if this is a standard music album, but the length is ok in the context of a musical.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: metrojam on January 29, 2016, 03:08:31 AM
Having been a very long time fan of DT (since 1989) and have seen them live 25+ times and every album they have released I have always been able to make my mind up on within 2 or 3 spins of it. Virtually every one I have loved (apart from Systematic Chaos and the weak DT12) but I really am sitting on the fence with this one at the moment. I thought upon initial listen that the more I heard of it, then the more I would enjoy it but now after 5 or 6 spins, I am finding that the lack of outright heavy/metal songs and the over abundance of ballads and piano is dragging my opinion down to the "negative" side of things sadly, and its all becoming a little bit "average" and very un-DT like. In fact, take away James's voice and it could be any Ayreon or Avantasia rock opera concept album, i.m.o.
Its all very well (and fine) having short songs but on the whole each short song is crammed with enough stuff for a song twice as long and hence on the occasion where there is a catchy chorus, there's only room for it once in the song, which is a waste.
Full marks to the band for doing something COMPLETELY different and I will stick with it and give it some more spins in the hope that it will click with me but I fear my longevity with this record is not going to be very long and after the gig on the 18th, it will be shelved for a long time :(
DT12 caused some diverse opinions and arguments between the hardcore DT fans, but I think this one is REALLY going to put the cat amongst the pigeons!!
Sorry for the negative but honest thoughts.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 29, 2016, 03:17:35 AM
The opening four notes of Ravenskill reminds me of the Tetris theme. Can't stop thinking about it whenever it starts.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 29, 2016, 03:22:38 AM
Finally got my copy! Listening to it now, will be posting thoughts this evening
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Rodni Demental on January 29, 2016, 03:32:55 AM
The opening four notes of Ravenskill reminds me of the Tetris theme. Can't stop thinking about it whenever it starts.

What have you done...!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RaasMah on January 29, 2016, 03:33:34 AM
The most brutal thing ever is "A New Beginning" fading out in the middle of that incredible Petrucci solo.  :facepalm:

I agree with this completely, so far my only real grump about the album.

Would be preferable to extend it if this is a standard music album, but the length is ok in the context of a musical.

IDK, the lengh is alright, just needed a proper ending. I can see it merrits, but its just not fullfiling. JP did it in TBOT too, but alteast there it was indeed after 3 min ;D Hopefull live he will extend it a bit, and give it a proper finish.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on January 29, 2016, 03:35:39 AM
The most brutal thing ever is "A New Beginning" fading out in the middle of that incredible Petrucci solo.  :facepalm:

I agree with this completely, so far my only real grump about the album.

Would be preferable to extend it if this is a standard music album, but the length is ok in the context of a musical.

IDK, the lengh is alright, just needed a proper ending. I can see it merrits, but its just not fullfiling. JP did it in TBOT too, but alteast there it was indeed after 3 min ;D Hopefull live he will extend it a bit, and give it a proper finish.

I don't think so. Remember it's a rock opera, where everything has a proper place. Seems difficult to change that without changing the dynamics.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 29, 2016, 03:35:44 AM
The opening four notes of Ravenskill reminds me of the Tetris theme. Can't stop thinking about it whenever it starts.

What have you done...!

:neverusethis:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on January 29, 2016, 03:36:27 AM
My favorite song right now after about 10 listens is A Life Left Behind.  The intro is great, but the chorus is what really grabs me.

Other songs that could be #1 fave depending on time of day

Dystopian Overture:   Why not?  An instrumental best of from the entire album

Three Days:  Great stuff.  Take out the ragtime "hell to pay" section and I'd love it even more (I picture a Muppet character here)

A Tempting Offer: Great guitar riff (and Dystopian Overture highlighted it so ... even better)

2285 Entr'acte:  Slightly brings me back to the Craig Goldy instrumental songs I've loved

The Path That Divides: The 2:30 section really stood out to me.  In fact, this was the song that hit me the cleanest on listen one

The Walking Shadow: Great character work here.  Jordan's keys are great.  2:03 is great stuff.  Great.

Our New World:  Reminds me of prime Saigon Kick (a good thing)

I'm assuming they wrote the music to the lyrics/melody as opposed to the usual music jam writing style ... and it did wonders for them.  Possibly it just gave them an inspiration kick beyond what they normally have.    It also made the vocal melodies much stronger and key.

I wish they took the NOMAC songs further because those might have had the most potential for extremely new DT ground.  I'm requesting The Astonishing Part 2: The NOMACs Strike Back with fully developed NOMAC songs.

The rock opera announcement put the fear of cheese in me, and I'd hardly say this album is cheese free.  Broadway musicals just tend to have a cheese base.  I can see the live action being a lot of solitary characters staring out a window singing monologues ... ending with the broadway musical cadence as the lights dim just enough time to establish a new solitary character.

But once you get past all that, it is probably some of the best DT work post-Portnoy.  Don't see this as a breakout album outside the DT / prog community however.  This seems made for the longtime fan base as opposed to trying to win over new fans.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on January 29, 2016, 03:37:12 AM
Is it just me, or does the melody, most prominently featured in "Brother Can You Hear Me?" remind anyone of the vocal melody from the middle of Rush's "Hemispheres, Part IV: Cygnus, Bringer Of Balance"? The lyrics in that song go -
."I have memory and awareness
But I have no shape or form
As a disembodied spirit
I am dead and yet unborn
I have passed into Olympus
As was told in tales of old
To the city of Immortals
Marble white and purest gold..."

The melody in BCYHM is VERY reminiscent of that verse for me, and I'm hoping I'm not the only one who felt that way
-Marc.


Absolutely felt this...
Check this video at 12:44 mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uXCfDRddC0
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RaasMah on January 29, 2016, 03:38:44 AM
The most brutal thing ever is "A New Beginning" fading out in the middle of that incredible Petrucci solo.  :facepalm:

I agree with this completely, so far my only real grump about the album.

Would be preferable to extend it if this is a standard music album, but the length is ok in the context of a musical.

IDK, the lengh is alright, just needed a proper ending. I can see it merrits, but its just not fullfiling. JP did it in TBOT too, but alteast there it was indeed after 3 min ;D Hopefull live he will extend it a bit, and give it a proper finish.

I don't think so. Remember it's a rock opera, where everything has a proper place. Seems difficult to change that without changing the dynamics.

B.Lee

A man can dream :-[
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on January 29, 2016, 03:43:16 AM
I actually look at the story now as consisting of three acts. Act 1 is up to Three Days, all of this is set-up and intro the world being built (10 songs, 37+ minutes). Act 2 is Hovering Sojourn up to Road to Revolution, which contained the plot twists (Faythe and Gabriel, Daryus vs. Road to Revolution, Faythe and Nefaryus) (10 songs, 42+ minutes). Act 3 is the current Act 2 up to Our New World (12 songs, 43+ minutes)which is the climax and resolution of the plot developments in "Act 2" . Power Down and Astonishing is the curtain call. The album looks more balanced to me that way. :)
Yes yes yes, absolutely! Narratively and musically, it really feels like 3 acts, and that's how I'm treating it basically. First part is Descent to Three Days, second part is Hovering Sojourn to Road to Revolution, and third part is basically Act II minus Astonishing which is more of a coda/epilogue, and frankly pretty unnecessary in my opinion.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CoT67 on January 29, 2016, 03:48:14 AM
I feel like Lord Nafaryus and Faythe were interpreted almost like some Disney characters, specifically Grand Vizier Jafar from Aladdin and Elsa from Frozen... from a certain point of view, it shows that they don't want to take themselves too seriously this time around, which is great by the way.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jayvee3 on January 29, 2016, 03:54:21 AM
I know many can often disregard shorter songs, hence why it's been barely mentioned, but wow - "The Answer' is a beautiful 1:53's worth  of music. Then it's like the 'full version' of it comes in and gets ramped up in Act II with 'Begin Again'. Brilliant. This is just a superb album.  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 03:56:10 AM
Yes yes yes, absolutely! Narratively and musically, it really feels like 3 acts, and that's how I'm treating it basically. First part is Descent to Three Days, second part is Hovering Sojourn to Road to Revolution, and third part is basically Act II minus Astonishing which is more of a coda/epilogue, and frankly pretty unnecessary in my opinion.

Astonishing really seems unnecessary from the story POV, but if you imagine this as a real musical, Astonishing serves a purpose as the piece where the actors come back one by one to the stage to take their bow as the audience gives them a standing ovation. That is basically how the opening music of the song sounds like. Then the characters sing one by one, and ends in a chorus for the final bow before the curtain falls.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 29, 2016, 04:03:47 AM
Dream Theater upload a lot of the astonishing song in their official youtube
https://www.youtube.com/user/dreamtheater/videos
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 29, 2016, 04:04:56 AM
I really want The Astonishing: The Musical
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 04:08:58 AM
I really want The Astonishing: The Musical

I have a feeling that their decision to stage a full "The Astonishing"-only tour is a testing of the waters. Now that I had listened to it a lot of times, I find myself thinking that one does not write a musical this elaborate without planning to bring this on stage as a full-scale production at some point.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: me7 on January 29, 2016, 04:10:56 AM
The opening four notes of Ravenskill reminds me of the Tetris theme. Can't stop thinking about it whenever it starts.

What have you done...!

:neverusethis:

Now I'm scared of my next listen :-[
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bolsters on January 29, 2016, 04:11:05 AM
Actually, they uploaded the entire thing (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLToa5JuFMsXR7S5f8Ti0IWHYFOU5WclqA).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: GJE on January 29, 2016, 04:20:02 AM
I am deeply impressed, a great dvd.
And am only at number 12.
Can't wait for the live DVD.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chego_voice on January 29, 2016, 04:20:22 AM
More songs need James' maniacal laughing.

I love that so much. It's cheesy but awesome.


And am I the only one who maniacally laughs along with it? :lol

No hahahahahaha me too!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on January 29, 2016, 04:22:00 AM
I'm about to go into my lunch break, chain store nearby here I come!  :tup stoked to see that the vast majority of the comments are very positive!!!  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jcmoorehead on January 29, 2016, 04:28:32 AM
Only heard the first disc so far but I am absolutely loving what I am hearing. Being brought up with Meat Loaf and The Musical Version of The War of the Worlds, these sorts of things have always been right up my street. I'm looking forward to being able to enjoy the second disc and then delving into the story a little bit more. I can't really fault what they've done though and as with others I have to say that James sounds amazing on it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 29, 2016, 04:34:47 AM
Listening to the album for the 4th time now, there's something I really like about A Better Life, it's not groundbreaking or original but its nice.
Plus, the last minute reminds me of Operation Mindcrime  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 29, 2016, 04:44:49 AM
The album was in the mailbox when i got home!  :o :o :o
I'm gonna hit play in a couple of minutes. I have never been this excited for a CD before. :corn
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheGreatPretender on January 29, 2016, 04:48:06 AM
Well, I should have known that sleep would be impossible. Woke up at 2 AM and downloaded the digital version of the album, and man... Wow, just wow. I mean, it might be corny to say, but I truly am astonished. It's definitely everything I was hoping for, but at the same time, so much better than I could have imagined. Part of the reason I got into DT was their awesome super fast playing, but the other part was that they can just take you on these amazing musical journeys, and this album is really so much about the latter. What a trip.


More songs need James' maniacal laughing.

I just wish there was footage of him recording that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2016, 04:49:30 AM
More songs need James' maniacal laughing.

I just wish there was footage of him recording that.

If this isn't the second video on the Astonishing page, I'm going to be really disappointed now.

Or maybe if you click the NOMAC eyes, it just plays audio of JLB maniacally laughing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 29, 2016, 04:52:44 AM
And what's so special about the STILL unlocked places tab, why is it so important when we've heard the album, know the characters, know the story?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheGreatPretender on January 29, 2016, 04:54:46 AM
And what's so special about the STILL unlocked places tab, why is it so important when we've heard the album, know the characters, know the story?
Well, considering that RR hasn't sent people their digital downloads yet, I'm guessing all that stuff will probably be unlocked and sent out by some guy who's probably still sleeping, lol. JP also said they were planning to have the track list link to actual explanations of scenes for people who didn't quite get what's happening in the story, so there should be more to that as well.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2016, 04:55:17 AM
And what's so special about the STILL unlocked places tab, why is it so important when we've heard the album, know the characters, know the story?

Don't know, but I don't see any reason for it not to be revealed now. Maybe later today?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 04:56:19 AM
Tonight before I sleep, I would listen with the intent of focusing on John Myung. Many are complaining that he underplayed in the record, but off the top of my head, I can remembers distinct moments like the intro of A Life Left Behind, the groovy section of A New Beginning, the outro of Moment of Betrayal, the "rap" and the fast section of the Path That Divides, and the heavy section of My Last Farewell. Usually my trick here is to listen at a low volume because that is when I hear him more.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 29, 2016, 04:57:07 AM
And what's so special about the STILL unlocked places tab, why is it so important when we've heard the album, know the characters, know the story?

Don't know, but I don't see any reason for it not to be revealed now. Maybe later today?

Hope so Blob, I hope so  >:(   :'(
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 05:01:36 AM
Anybody here loved the slow polyrhythms by Mangini in The Walking Shadow? See, that staple of his drum solos CAN be musical.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 29, 2016, 05:03:25 AM
I was just walking back to work after my lunch break, listening to A Life Left Behind on Spotify - it's one of the standout tracks for me so far. I'm a sucker for catchy choruses. And that "video gamey" intro is nice too.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: snapple on January 29, 2016, 05:05:08 AM
I've only listened to the first disc so far.



I don't like it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 29, 2016, 05:06:33 AM
On my 4th listen, also up to a Life Left Behind.
Intro reminds me of Yes.
And oddly enough, the rest of song makes me want to hear Devin Townsend do an Epicloud style version of it!  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on January 29, 2016, 05:07:02 AM
I was just walking back to work after my lunch break, listening to A Life Left Behind on Spotify - it's one of the standout tracks for me so far. I'm a sucker for catchy choruses. And that "video gamey" intro is nice too.

Definitely a standout track. The last "I'm waking up" part is pure bliss.  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 29, 2016, 05:08:19 AM
I love that piano intro to Ravenskill!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on January 29, 2016, 05:10:15 AM
I love that piano intro to Ravenskill!

When it goes heavy it gets even better. Definitely my favourite track so far.  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 29, 2016, 05:13:13 AM
I love that piano intro to Ravenskill!

When it goes heavy it gets even better. Definitely my favourite track so far.  :metal

Hello fellow Devhead?!!  :tup  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2016, 05:19:02 AM
About the best I could do.

https://www.blobvandam.com/link/JLB_HAHA.mp3
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 29, 2016, 05:20:05 AM
Don't like Chosen at all, makes me feel a bit sick   :angry:

But A Tempting Offer, Woah. Polytonal piano intro by the sound of it, back to the prog again!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RaasMah on January 29, 2016, 05:27:23 AM
There is so many highlights from this album! Im really starting to love it.

My favs, of the top of my head:
A new begining solo - deffinietly the best moment in the album imo
Nefarius! love the theatricality
The choir and instrumental in TGOM remain amazing for me
Intros to Heavens cove and A life left behind

Over all loving it the more I listen to it. And im satisfied to see there are plenty of awesome JP solos, I kinda fearded there wouldnt be enough.

So far the only thing im dissapointed in is the ending. Not that its not good, it fits, but I really wanted it to end with an epic guitar solo ala Razors edge or IT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James.v6 on January 29, 2016, 05:36:08 AM
Totally fall in love with TA. Lot of strong moments.
First 10 songs of Act 1..really killed me. Labrie have one of The most awesome vocal moments of his career. All of the JP solos are very soulful.
Songs like A Better Life, A Savior in The Square and Lord Nafaryus oh god a missed songs like that. Evil moments like in A Tempting Offer ufff.
Really Astonishing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lightbug on January 29, 2016, 05:41:50 AM
in "The walking shadow", at 2:03, that is faythe theme  :o , what a nice detail , before... well you know  ;)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: porcacultor on January 29, 2016, 05:45:25 AM
I'm liking it more every time I listen to it. This is surely the band having a LOT of fun.

Must mention separately that Our New World is one of the coolest tracks they've EVER put out. I'm anxious just thinking about seeing it live!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on January 29, 2016, 05:53:45 AM
I really want The Astonishing: The Musical

I have a feeling that their decision to stage a full "The Astonishing"-only tour is a testing of the waters. Now that I had listened to it a lot of times, I find myself thinking that one does not write a musical this elaborate without planning to bring this on stage as a full-scale production at some point.
I mean to honor the fact that they go by the name Dream Theater, I feel that would be their true destiny.  :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 05:57:41 AM
I really want The Astonishing: The Musical

I have a feeling that their decision to stage a full "The Astonishing"-only tour is a testing of the waters. Now that I had listened to it a lot of times, I find myself thinking that one does not write a musical this elaborate without planning to bring this on stage as a full-scale production at some point.
I mean to honor the fact that they go by the name Dream Theater, I feel that would be their true destiny.  :P

They started it with the last album. The last album is constructed like a concert set, with a theatrical opening, the sequence of the songs arranged to pace like a concert, and ending with some sort of end credits music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on January 29, 2016, 05:59:19 AM
Hey all. I'm a long time lurker on DTF, but feel compelled to post something for once.

I totally love this album - so many great moments!

Some thoughts:


So far the only thing im dissapointed in is the ending. Not that its not good, it fits, but I really wanted it to end with an epic guitar solo ala Razors edge or IT.

I'd agree with this, though it's only a minor nitpick. "Astonishing" (the final track) is excellent, but they could have milked it out for another couple of minutes and I would have been totally fine with that.

I'm going to have this playing constantly from now until the 18th Feb in the London Palladium. Cannot wait!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: scythe on January 29, 2016, 06:00:55 AM
Up to two full listens and much skipping around.

This record is simply unreal.

I don't think I've ever been moved so much and in so many directions by one album.

Can't stop grinning like an idiot at the choir on The Gift Of Music. Or Nafaryus' arrogant swagger. Or the chorus and key change in Moment Of Betrayal.
A New Beginning. What a piece of music. Dat groove.
The intro to Ravenskill reminds me of The Girl Who Stole The Stars from Chrono Cross.
Our New World is a hit. Seriously, Roadrunner needs to be blanketing radio with it.

One of the things I most appreciate about this album is the return to upbeat/major songwriting in the vein of Only A Matter Of Time, Under A Glass Moon or Innocence Faded. It's been missing from the DT sound for a while.

JLB's best performance to date. Utterly sublime.

Hoping against hope they bring the show to Australia.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 29, 2016, 06:04:54 AM
Alright. First full listen done. I think this one's a grower. Here are some thoughts

Lord Nafaryus is probably my favorite song. That rock tango is just so cool

Act of Faythe - Nice song, but "My music player"? LOL

I dislike all NOMAC tracks

Brother, Can You Hear Me? sounds like a national anthem

A New Beginning - Pirates of Caribbean, anyone?

2285 Entr'acte could be a Christmas song

Heaven's Cove gives a strong OTBOA vibe

Some other notes:
Some tracks float into each other nicely
Hats off to LaBrie. Really strong performance. He rocks.
Some WTF sound effects. The screams sound like someone throwing up
So many ballads. I was expecting a little bit more of the heavy side of DT. I'd give this album a strong 8/10
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chego_voice on January 29, 2016, 06:10:25 AM
About the best I could do.

https://www.blobvandam.com/link/JLB_HAHA.mp3

hahahahahahaha awesome!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Montsegur97 on January 29, 2016, 06:11:15 AM
The more I listen to this thing, the better it gets.  I keep hearing new things, it's definitely got some phenomenal songs on it.  Definitely beats ADToE and DT12 hands down for me, those two albums never get any listens from me...minus maybe the first 6-7 minutes of Illumination Theory.

I feel you almost have to listen to 5-6 songs at a time, a few times over, then move on to the next block (after you've listened to the whole thing obviously).  Maybe it's just me doing that...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YtseJohn on January 29, 2016, 06:15:16 AM
So far, almost perfect ratings scores on Google Play and Canadian ITunes stores for ratings. It's also higher up than Bieber and Megadeth, and one position below Adele in Top Albums.

Wow! :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on January 29, 2016, 06:17:22 AM
Act of Faythe - Nice song, but "My music player"? LOL

That's my favourite part of the song.  :-[
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Chino on January 29, 2016, 06:18:13 AM
Lucky for me, traffic was crazy going to work today. I got to listen through A Temping Offer.

I'm really digging this album so far. It's super refreshing. I must say, I really am enjoying the short songs.

When Your Time Has Come is my favorite track so far and Ravenskill gets an honorable mention. I don't have the slightest clue what's going on in the story, or who is who, but I'm enjoying it. This is going to make for a hello of a live show, and I can't wait to see them play Dystopian Overture.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 29, 2016, 06:18:31 AM
(POSSIBLE) SPOILER ALERT:








Re. the Places tab: Most of the CD booklet is given over to the lyrics (the addition of locations and "Day/Night" is a nice touch). The only pictures are one of the Emperor's Palace (different angle of the front cover scene), and fuller pictures of the characters. So as of now I have no idea, for example, what Heaven's Cove looks like. Maybe (hopefully) the Places tab will give us more pictures of the key scenery and locations of the story, to help bring it further to life.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on January 29, 2016, 06:21:06 AM

I am starting to think that JP may actually have bigger plans for this one because one does not just write a real rock opera if there is no intention for it to be staged as one.


We're still yet to see how it's presented live. For all we know, JLB will have 56 costume changes during the show. :P

As Rumbo would say, 56 Metal T-Shirts with leather pants. :lol


I checked out a few songs on Spotify.  Going to get it out of work.  Jacked and Pumped!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 29, 2016, 06:21:21 AM
I don't have the slightest clue what's going on in the story, or who is who, but I'm enjoying it.

Me neither :lol Hopefully we can get a full breakdown of the story and characters for us who hasn't "gotten it" yet.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dream416 on January 29, 2016, 06:25:26 AM
Anybody receive the download link from Roadrunner yet ?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 29, 2016, 06:29:43 AM
I don't have the slightest clue what's going on in the story, or who is who, but I'm enjoying it.

Me neither :lol Hopefully we can get a full breakdown of the story and characters for us who hasn't "gotten it" yet.

I'd like this very much too

Also I like how there's a dominant theme, that appears in at least five songs. It's a very nice melody too
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: craig1928 on January 29, 2016, 06:31:20 AM
can anyone give a tl;dr breakdown of the story? I've listened to it 6~ times now and following the lyrics and I still don't have a clue what it's about
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MacClaus on January 29, 2016, 06:33:52 AM
I would fire the guy who have overseen the artwork. The credits at the back of the CD-set are impossible to read!

Artwork 0/10
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on January 29, 2016, 06:40:09 AM
can anyone give a tl;dr breakdown of the story? I've listened to it 6~ times now and following the lyrics and I still don't have a clue what it's about
Really? If you've followed along with the full lyrics (including who is speaking at each point) then I would say it's actually pretty easy to follow. If anything, I can understand why some people would find a lot of the lyrics too blatant/obvious, especially those who have felt that way about a lot of DT's lyrics (which doesn't include me by the way).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 29, 2016, 06:42:17 AM
So you give the entire artwork 0/10 just because you can't read the credits? Oy vey... :facepalm:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on January 29, 2016, 06:45:51 AM
I would fire the guy who have overseen the artwork. The credits at the back of the CD-set are impossible to read!

Artwork 0/10

This means that you are in a position to totally destroy and shred that artwork, since it is zero anyway  :biggrin: will you ??
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: craig1928 on January 29, 2016, 06:51:29 AM
can anyone give a tl;dr breakdown of the story? I've listened to it 6~ times now and following the lyrics and I still don't have a clue what it's about
Really? If you've followed along with the full lyrics (including who is speaking at each point) then I would say it's actually pretty easy to follow. If anything, I can understand why some people would find a lot of the lyrics too blatant/obvious, especially those who have felt that way about a lot of DT's lyrics (which doesn't include me by the way).

it's one of my weaknesses, don't go to the cinema with me  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CoT67 on January 29, 2016, 06:51:54 AM
Act of Faythe - Nice song, but "My music player"? LOL

What about the "How music makes me feel!" part of A New Beginning?  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on January 29, 2016, 06:56:36 AM

Indeed. It is what I like to call "the love theme". You hear it the first time at the end of A Savior in the Square when Gabriel first sees Faythe.

Technically, you first hear it in Dystopian Overture with the french horns  :P

But also, it's actually first heard in Lord Nafaryus ("Arabelle who means the world to me...")
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lowdz on January 29, 2016, 06:59:30 AM
Is it just me, or does the melody, most prominently featured in "Brother Can You Hear Me?" remind anyone of the vocal melody from the middle of Rush's "Hemispheres, Part IV: Cygnus, Bringer Of Balance"? The lyrics in that song go -
."I have memory and awareness
But I have no shape or form
As a disembodied spirit
I am dead and yet unborn
I have passed into Olympus
As was told in tales of old
To the city of Immortals
Marble white and purest gold..."

The melody in BCYHM is VERY reminiscent of that verse for me, and I'm hoping I'm not the only one who felt that way...it also reminds me of parts of "The Wall", too. There's tons of Rush and Pink Floyd all over this album, at least to me.

-Marc.

Yes!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on January 29, 2016, 07:00:22 AM
Act of Faythe - Nice song, but "My music player"? LOL

What about the "How music makes me feel!" part of A New Beginning?  :lol

Or "i will treat them to sonic ecstasy"!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DoctorAction on January 29, 2016, 07:00:53 AM
Like it so far. Nice to hear the boys being light hearted, not very metal, major key and silly. So much of it is hilariously camp. Snare sound is better, still sounds shamefully triggered though. Mastering and general production great. At last. Some lovely new styles of music being created. James rules. JP solos wonderful.

I have a feeling they've really abandoned what's expected of a prog METAL band and are writing free here. About time. Cheers!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 29, 2016, 07:02:34 AM
(POSSIBLE) SPOILER ALERT:








Re. the Places tab: Most of the CD booklet is given over to the lyrics (the addition of locations and "Day/Night" is a nice touch). The only pictures are one of the Emperor's Palace (different angle of the front cover scene), and fuller pictures of the characters. So as of now I have no idea, for example, what Heaven's Cove looks like. Maybe (hopefully) the Places tab will give us more pictures of the key scenery and locations of the story, to help bring it further to life.
Never think of that !! It would be great if DT give us Hi Res Picture for any place taken in the story !!!
I agree with your opinion !!!  :tup

By the way, nice new bakcground for DTF !!! It's like dark turning into light  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Stef1 on January 29, 2016, 07:03:16 AM
I have now listened to the album 5 times and I am amazed to read how many people are saying they don't like it after one listen???
There is so much to take in, I would imagine I will still be picking out new "wow" moments 20 to 30 listens down the line.
The drums on most tracks are very much in the background,I think it has already been mentioned that the Gift of Music and Moment Of Betrayal have the most up front drum sound.
Love James singing as Fayth and her music machine, awesome.
Only disappointments for me are I expected it to be MORE orchestral after reading the pre release interviews and would have thought that The Astonishing being the last track would have been more uplifting, like the ending of IL.
Unless of cause this is NOT the end, might just be the beginning?

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Marion Crane on January 29, 2016, 07:07:20 AM
Three Days and The Gift of Music are amazing. The rest is gonna take a lot of getting used to. Still not a fan of Mangini's playing and they really need to stop putting that heavy chorus effect on James' voice all the time.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theaterdream on January 29, 2016, 07:10:08 AM
Wow, I haven't posted here in a while. Been still following the happenings around here and I plan to pick up my album at the store on the way home from work. Love reading everyones opinions thus far. Very anxious to start listening to the album this weekend.

Happy "The Astonishing" release day to everyone!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kilgore Trout on January 29, 2016, 07:11:01 AM
I think my Dream Theater days are over. I didn't care about the last two albums, but this one takes the cake. Although the album clearly shows that they tried to do something else (kudos to that, even if it's nothing "progressive", it's just the musical formula applied to generic Dream Theater), it is simply not for me. The cheesiness, the amount of Disney-sounding songs and parts, the blandness of the melodic material which sound half  the time like late 90's radio rock and the other half like a sanitized version of some old DT material, are overwhelming.
But what strikes me the most is the overall absence of anything harsh, dissonant or intense. I was expecting at least some remains of metal/rock intensity, not radio-friendly material or musical-like intensity (let's not forget that musicals are mostly made for general public, and are full of easy melodies and sentimentality). They are pretty much nowhere to be find. The few metal parts are laughable. Do they actually know what is metal or prog rock these days ? Steven Wilson most gentle songs sound hardcore compared to this album. Not that I expect DT to write extreme metal, but I would like them to sound at least like modern rock. Late Portnoy's albums were cheesy and over-the-top but FUN. This is cheesy and pompous rock for women in their 50's or kids. The album sounds so outdaded, pretty, childish in its aspirations and audience-friendly, the work of a band ready for their reconversion as a Broadway act or a backing band for some near-retirement pop singer. If I want to listen to a musical, I would listen to one, especially that there are quite a lot of musical that are not only better but grittier than that. The album sounds like it was written by 15 years old.

I could go on the technical aspect of it (which is fine, except the terrible orchestral writing and MM drumming, but let's not tackle this subject).

Well, I'm now ready to accept that the band that wrote the dance of eternity is dead and buried...

PS : I tried again writing this. I think I find the whole thing embarassing. Like A new beginning... Until the instrumental bridge, it sounds like the Disney channel music my nephews listen to (especially at 3:29, probably one of the most embarassing moment in DT history, on par with the organ at the beginning of a life left behind, that destroys one of the few cool guitar riffs on the album).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: genome on January 29, 2016, 07:12:08 AM
I still can't stop laughing at the end of My Last Farewell.


"AAAAARRRRGGHHH!!!!"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TK on January 29, 2016, 07:12:28 AM
Stupid question maybe, but what does 'Int.' and 'Ext. in the booklet mean?

For example:

Int. Emperor's Palace - Night
Ext. Ravenskill Town Square - Day
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 29, 2016, 07:13:08 AM
Interior and exterior (Inside and outside).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MacClaus on January 29, 2016, 07:13:47 AM
Great review.... compared to 2112 or Operation Mindcrime this album is so weak. The worst DT release IMO
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2016, 07:14:20 AM
Stupid question maybe, but what does 'Int.' and 'Ext. in the booklet mean?

For example:

Int. Emperor's Palace - Night
Ext. Ravenskill Town Square - Day

Interior / Exterior


Myung'd by Zydar.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 29, 2016, 07:14:51 AM
Just finished listening for the first time. What an album. I am speechless.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on January 29, 2016, 07:16:17 AM
What an accomplishment! Incredible from beginning to end.

My favorite JR recorded performance by a long ways. Love what he did on this album. JLB also.

This was risky for sure and as a fan I appreciate the hell out of that. My biggest one word description after about 5 spins is
BEAUTIFUL!

They really created something special here. And finally...the sound is GREAT!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on January 29, 2016, 07:17:53 AM
What really surprised me is how, with all the visual emphasis on the NOMACS, on the album they play virtually no role. I was hoping for an actual NOMACS tune.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 29, 2016, 07:19:24 AM
Just realised that Disc 1 is the longest single disc in DT studio album history (80:01 by my CD player), and Disc 2 is the shortest (50:41).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Billzo on January 29, 2016, 07:22:08 AM
Woah!!!! WTF happened to the forum  :lol

Liking it  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 29, 2016, 07:25:27 AM
Disc two of SDOIT is shorter.

After one listen my top 5 songs would be: The Gift of Music, Lord Nafaruys, A Savior in the Square, A New Beginning and Our New World
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on January 29, 2016, 07:27:26 AM
Today will be the LONGEST work day ever. Cannot wait to get home and pop this thing in!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on January 29, 2016, 07:27:38 AM
After listening through a couple times, I'm really liking this album. Simply put, there is some of their strongest writing and playing in years.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TK on January 29, 2016, 07:27:55 AM
Interior and exterior (Inside and outside).

Ah, makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up!  :D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 29, 2016, 07:28:18 AM
Disc two of SDOIT is shorter.

 :facepalm: D'oh! You're right! Why did I forget that?

OK, forget that last bit.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: senecadawg2 on January 29, 2016, 07:29:37 AM
Steven Wilson most gentle songs sound hardcore compared to this album.

Even if I accepted the insults targeted at the band, even if I took your opinions-stated-as-facts and even if I could get over the implications that DT should be less accessible and have failed to do so; even if I ran with all of that, I'd still have to question your knowledge of Steven Wilson.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 29, 2016, 07:30:42 AM
What really surprised me is how, with all the visual emphasis on the NOMACS, on the album they play virtually no role. I was hoping for an actual NOMACS tune.

That's the thing. They don't play tunes. They play BZZZZ BRRRRT BLBLBLBLBL BLAAAARGH!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Nekov on January 29, 2016, 07:31:54 AM
Well, I must say there are some veeery interesting musical passages in this album but overall I find it kinda boring which is the first time for me with DT. The last few albums and would normally like a couple songs and then dislike some other but this just fails to grab my attention for the most part. I'll have to spin it a few more times and see if it somehow grows.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Stadler on January 29, 2016, 07:32:00 AM
All I know is I will be buying this today, and after ADTOE, I never ever thought I would "first day, unheard buy" a DT album again.  But there you go.

And if the only good thing to come of it is this awesome new forum design, I call it a WIN.  This is flipping awesome!!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on January 29, 2016, 07:32:43 AM
Question, are the characters pictured inside like on the website?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 29, 2016, 07:35:27 AM
Question, are the characters pictured inside like on the website?

Yes but not just their faces, but their upper body too.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thedrumanimal on January 29, 2016, 07:36:30 AM
Wow. Just wow. Heard the album one week ago at a listening session from Warner Music. I'am now listening to it now for the third time.

I liked DT12, I liked ADToE... basically I love everything they do much more than 99% all other Prog bands put out. I was always hoping for a 2CD concept album. And now I have it... And this album is just unreal. It is so inspiried. So diverse. There are so many things that will unfold only when listening to this piece of art for the 20th time or so... There is such a magic to this album.

While listening to it for the first time, there were certain parts that I thought were not working for me. But already now, even these parts work in the context of the album. I think the album will be a strong grower for many people.

I remember back in the 6DoiT days that the first critics for that album were really harsh. People didn't like the Misunderstood outro and that ruined nearly half the CD, for instance. And now, 6DoiT is widely considered as one of their best. I would really like to forward time for 14 years and see how this forum thinks of TA from back in 2016. Jordan is 74 by then right?  :lol

The last time I liked an album as much as I like this album while listening to it for the first few times, was in 1999, when they released what is one of the best albums ever for me...

A better life is on right now - I have tears in my eyes. Really strong melodies...
Thanks DT, this is why I love you guys so much - music like this enhances my whole life!

And for me they archieved what JP intented to archive: Enjoy the CD without focussing on other activites, reading through the booklet, getting lost in the story and the amazing music.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on January 29, 2016, 07:38:02 AM
All I know is I will be buying this today, and after ADTOE, I never ever thought I would "first day, unheard buy" a DT album again.  But there you go.

And if the only good thing to come of it is this awesome new forum design, I call it a WIN.  This is flipping awesome!!!

I predict you will love it! It's so full of melody.

Just do yourself a favor (if you can) and dedicate alone time to the first spin. Quiet and alone.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Rickharris1011 on January 29, 2016, 07:42:53 AM
Count me in the "love it" camp.  I love it as a musical AND as a musical record. 
Also count me in the "slightly too many slower cuts in ACT I" than makes it run a bit long...but I can see the fit in the story.   I have a feeling a couple might find the skip button in the future...but...out of 34 tracks...that's pretty impressive. 

A couple of thoughts:
There is so much Pink Floyd influence in this - love it.  WAY more like the Wall than Operation Mindcrime.  That makes me happy.  The end of A New Beginning.  JP Gilmore.   :metal The songs focus on the relationships between the characters, rather than than a relatively ubiquitous plot. 

Will James channel his inner Peter Gabriel when performing it live?  Costume changes, moving around the stage to sing the different parts ALA Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.  I haven't pined for a live show this much in a LONG time. (Oh April 19th how you seem so far away)

I love the production and sound of the Album - honestly I think its my favorite sounding album ever by them.  I am a HUGE JP fan.  Have been since '92.  But he's so much more powerful as a player without the wall of guitar sound that was so dominant on SC, BCSL and especially DT12 (I loved the DT12 songs on BTFW when the mix was more even with JR). 

How much does Beck's Dad rock?  The orchestration is absolutely awesome, sits well in the mix and adds to the power of the song.  Especially in cuts like A tempting Offer.  I totally see where Beck gets the musical genius gene.

Songs I love (MoB and TGOM would both be in this, though I listened those to death before this came out)

Dystopian Overture - awesome and perfect length.  This one is in the same league as 1928 and SDOIT.

The whole scene at the Square - set up so well - introduces the characters.  I love the Van Hagar guitar/keyboard unison and solo in "When your time has come" and 3 days is gold.  I like Act of Faythe in the context...but I hate to say it...this might be the one that gets skipped...a lot like Goodnight Kiss in SDOIT - I love it in theory...but I always skip to the instrumental when I listen to it.

A life Left Behind - the intro - and the song behind it. 

Chosen - I should find this absolutely cheesy and it's yet another slow song...and I feel like I've heard it before...but I love it!

A Tempting Offer - really cool mood.  Nice progression.

A New Beginning - Prog candy, great groove.  Awesome hooks.  Great use of multiple characters .  The distored Hammond Organ groove from Gift of Music.  The unison playing Those double-bass fills...damn...  Like someone else said, I could listen to 3 hours more of that solo at the end.  JP and David Gilmore need to do a show together and trade-off on this groove. Seems a little more like an act I closer than Road to revolution. 

Heaven's Cove - My favorite moment and biggest gripe rolled into one.  When james starts singing "Under the glow..." I get the tingles...possibly my favorite DT vocal groove of all time...followed by an awesome hook....but they never come back to it!!! 

Walking Shadow/Last Farewell - Epic, powerful, awesome.

Hymn of 1000 Voices - This is the 11th hour full cast unison song if it ever makes the stage.  Great use of the choir.

Our New World - someone else said it's a hit in 1992.  I fully agree.  Another stud song.  Perfectly reprises A Savior in the Square.  Ear Candy. 

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Billzo on January 29, 2016, 07:46:21 AM
Is it weird that I think it's weird that literally nobody but myself commented on the new forum theme...? Are you guys actually seeing it?  :-\
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Awaken on January 29, 2016, 07:47:36 AM
All I know is I will be buying this today, and after ADTOE, I never ever thought I would "first day, unheard buy" a DT album again.  But there you go.

And if the only good thing to come of it is this awesome new forum design, I call it a WIN.  This is flipping awesome!!!

I predict you will love it! It's so full of melody.

Just do yourself a favor (if you can) and dedicate alone time to the first spin. Quiet and alone.

Absolutely agree with the alone time comment.  I'd only add, allow time within another day or two to do it again.  On the second listen, everything has really started to come together for me.  This is an amazing effort IMO.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 29, 2016, 07:47:37 AM
Is it weird that I think it's weird that literally nobody but myself commented on the new forum theme...? Are you guys actually seeing it?  :-\

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=45721.msg2087302
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dreamtheater360 on January 29, 2016, 07:49:20 AM
Listened to the whole thing and I Love It! JR and JP really nailed the Rock Opera feel to this, while still sounding fresh. It's new and unique, yet at the same time, still sounds like Dream Theater to me. I personally don't even think there are any filler songs like others have said, as I think some of the slow ballads are beautiful. Still too much to take in, but I can say this will probably go in my top 3 DT albums, right after SFAM and SDOIT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: senecadawg2 on January 29, 2016, 07:50:48 AM
A New Beginning might've been my favorite song on the album if not for the fade out during the fantastic solo. Feels like such a tease.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Billzo on January 29, 2016, 07:52:02 AM
Is it weird that I think it's weird that literally nobody but myself commented on the new forum theme...? Are you guys actually seeing it?  :-\

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=45721.msg2087302

Ah! Sorry  :blush Been living in this thread for the past few days  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Awaken on January 29, 2016, 07:52:11 AM
I haven't seen it mentioned much, though may have missed it, but the vocal melody (especially the 'Evangeline' part) in X Aspect is amazing.  James really does sound stellar on this record
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TL on January 29, 2016, 07:57:34 AM
Wow, there's a lot to digest here. Definitely too early to know how I feel about this album, so I'll give my general first impressions for now.

For the music; there's definitely a spark there. There are definitely some great moments, and it really does seem like they were feeling inspired. It's definitely "Dream Theater meet musicals", and I like a well done musical. While there were some stand out moments, I'm definitely going to have to go through it again to form an impression on a lot of it. There are some songs that feel more like interludes than full fledged songs that blend together a bit for me. Not necessarily a problem; plenty of musicals do that, so it may be intentional.
For the vocals, James generally sounds quite good, and I got the impression while listening that he really got into it and had fun with it. It translates into his singing/performance. He definitely goes for it, so plenty of credit to him.

The lyrics/concept;
I was extremely skeptical of the concept going in, and my first impression of it having heard the album is that it's a bit hit and miss. There are moments where it works well enough, but there are occasional lines or sound effects that really drag me out of it. (As a side note, while it's obviously a personal preference, I almost always hate sound effects in music). The better moments for me are either where the lyrics are a bit unspecific, or if they get specific, when things are really hammed up. There are a few parts where it starts to feel a bit self serious, combined with lyrics that are a bit silly, and the tonal dissonance is a bit difficult to get past. I did find myself zoning out in regards to the lyrics at times, and didn't really follow all of the specifics of the story as a result.

Overall, it's certainly an ambitious project, and while it has its flaws, there are some great moments as well. I'll need some more listens to get a fuller opinion. The band sound creatively refreshed, and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens if they channel this sort of enthusiasm and exploration into their next album.

(On a side note, one critique that I may well be the only person to care about; the pronunciation of "Evangeline". "Eeee-vaaaan-ja-leeeeen". Mostly because I grew up surrounded by the culture that the name is actually from (French Acadian), and have known several people with that name. It's closer to "Ehh-vaughn-zhaa-lynn" (french phonetics can be tricky to explain in english  :lol ). To be fair to DT, they're far from the first to do this; names like that have a long history of being butchered in the US.  :P  It just sticks out like a sore thumb to me, given my upbringing).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on January 29, 2016, 07:59:13 AM
I think my Dream Theater days are over. I didn't care about the last two albums, but this one takes the cake.

This, along with the fact that you pointed out MMs drumming says to me you just miss Portnoy. And that's fine. But it's got to start dawning on people that there's 99% chance he's not coming back.

And the metal parts are laughable? "Day after day, night after night..."

I've just finished Act 1. It was incredible. The variety in the songs, the different themes going on (how many times does it refer to Faythe's theme?!). It's quite easy to tell what's going on just be listening  :D

Referring to the NOMACS tracks. The noises do sound quite musical to me actually. Listening with headphones it sounded quite good! The one with the video games sounds and War of the Worlds tripods was the best, followed by Descent.

Am gonna listen to Act 2 in a bit then probably listen to it again later over my sounds system instead and with the lyrics.

EDIT: I'm always on my phone so apologies if what I'm writing is not always readable!

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on January 29, 2016, 08:04:02 AM
Obviously, not everyone will like this album.  And as has been said over and over since the inception of this forum, ALL opinions are welcome.  However, negative opinions still should be expressed constructively, as clearly stated in the forum rules.  Petty insults like the following are clearly out of bounds and will not be tolerated: 
...laughable...
...pompous rock for women in their 50's or kids.
...childish ...
...The album sounds like it was written by 15 years old.
...embarassing. ...

Honestly, if you need to be told that that sort of thing is out of bounds, I'm not really sure what more can be said to you.  We are better than that here.

As for your other criticisms, I don't see any basis for them, but your opinion is your opinion.  But this warning is strictly for the off-base insults.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Woodworker1 on January 29, 2016, 08:06:25 AM
The melodies are running through my head hours after the last song ended.  I love this album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 29, 2016, 08:09:11 AM
I love 'Astonishing' the song. It's basically a collection of my favorite themes from the whole thing tied with this 'the cast comes out and sings the end in unison' feeling. Amazing stuff.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JRuless on January 29, 2016, 08:09:30 AM
I see why this is dividing 'us' into lovers and haters camps.

I don't see many ballads, what I see is a head to toe musical experience and I love it!  :hefdaddy

I give it a few more spins to completely let it sink before any definite judgement.
Hopefully some will give it a chance before throwing it into a unexplored corner.

We wanted something fresh and different for a long time and I think we got some... yeah! Can't wait to see it live...soon  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 29, 2016, 08:12:55 AM
I'm gonna listen the second time after dinner. After one listen this album is either number 3 or 4 on my list.
1. Six Degrees
2. Scenes
3. Images/Astonishing
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kilgore Trout on January 29, 2016, 08:14:56 AM
Obviously, not everyone will like this album.  And as has been said over and over since the inception of this forum, ALL opinions are welcome.  However, negative opinions still should be expressed constructively, as clearly stated in the forum rules.  Petty insults like the following are clearly out of bounds and will not be tolerated:
Honestly, if you need to be told that that sort of thing is out of bounds, I'm not really sure what more can be said to you.  We are better than that here.

As for your other criticisms, I don't see any basis for them, but your opinion is your opinion.  But this warning is strictly for the off-base insults.
Insults to who ? The musical notes on the album ? Do you take personnaly remarks about a musical material in a "if you don't like what I like the way I like it, you insult me" way ? This has nothing to do with moderation, but with with your inability to distinguish your own tastes from the OBJECT of your liking.

It's pretty obvious that NOT ALL opinions are welcome.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on January 29, 2016, 08:15:51 AM
"A New Beginning." Holy f**k are you serious? Dream Theater in a groove? Yes!
This could be an early favorite for me. I could listen to them jam that last part for like 20 minutes. In fact, it would be awesome if they did that in the live show to give James a little break before the end of Act I.

I too am hoping there are some extended solos for the live show, especially since there will be no variation in the setlist
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on January 29, 2016, 08:18:14 AM
Obviously, not everyone will like this album.  And as has been said over and over since the inception of this forum, ALL opinions are welcome.  However, negative opinions still should be expressed constructively, as clearly stated in the forum rules.  Petty insults like the following are clearly out of bounds and will not be tolerated:
Honestly, if you need to be told that that sort of thing is out of bounds, I'm not really sure what more can be said to you.  We are better than that here.

As for your other criticisms, I don't see any basis for them, but your opinion is your opinion.  But this warning is strictly for the off-base insults.
Insults to who ? The musical notes on the album ? Do you take personnaly remarks about a musical material in a "if you don't like what I like the way I like it, you insult me" way ? This has nothing to do with moderation, but with with your inability to distinguish your own tastes from the OBJECT of your liking.

It's pretty obvious that NOT ALL opinions are welcome.

"This album was written by a 15 year old." is not an opinion but an insult directly to the band. To be honest, your entire post is really hostile towards them, so get off your mighty horse here mate.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RaasMah on January 29, 2016, 08:20:28 AM
You must be that pink squid guy. Off you go, you wont be missed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on January 29, 2016, 08:21:13 AM
*snip*

If you consider this a satirical troll post it's actually kinda funny.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kilgore Trout on January 29, 2016, 08:21:28 AM
Even if I accepted the insults targeted at the band, even if I took your opinions-stated-as-facts and even if I could get over the implications that DT should be less accessible and have failed to do so; even if I ran with all of that, I'd still have to question your knowledge of Steven Wilson.
Actually, you can : I don't like Steven Wilson's music that much, and don't know all his albums for that very reason. I've heard pretty much everything he's done after 2000 with Porcupine Tree or as a solo artist, though.

And insults at the band... They're filthy rich and they do whatever they like. Don't worry, they don't care about me not liking their album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Chino on January 29, 2016, 08:22:34 AM
Calvin?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CoT67 on January 29, 2016, 08:23:17 AM
*snip*

If you consider this a satirical troll post it's actually kinda funny.  :lol

I love the appeal to "freedom of speech". Like, you sign up on a Dream Theater fan forum for the explicit reason of bashing them? That's just hilarious  :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 29, 2016, 08:23:22 AM
I have a question about the title of the album. I have only listened once, while reading the lyrics. Why is the album named The Astonishing? In the end the lyrics say: eternally, in harmony our lives will be astonishing again. What do they mean by this?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shadow2222 on January 29, 2016, 08:24:07 AM
And insults at the band... They're filthy rich and they do whatever they like. Don't worry, they don't care about me not liking their album.

So you say about one of the most fan-friendly major bands out there (even after Portnoy's departure).

Regardless, it doesn't foster good discussion. Notice the little tangent we are on.

Anyways, on topic, one of my favorite tracks is A New Beginning. That is really close to being a perfect song in my book.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: senecadawg2 on January 29, 2016, 08:27:16 AM
Ignoring the belligerence, I neither love nor hate this album at the moment. In fact, I've only listened to the first disc so far. A couple times, I should say, but still only the first disc. Since that alone is so much to swallow, I'm not going to worry about moving on to the second act until I'm comfortable and familiar with the music, characters and plot of the first.

I do think the first disc is really good. Maybe largely because I did a good job of tempering my expectations, but I'm really impressed. Is there cheese? Maybe some filler? Maybe not enough JMX? More of the same from Mangini, as was mentioned somewhere about page two of the thread? I dunno--I think it might suffer from all of that to a certain degree. Overall though, I think the overall experience overwhelms any of those gripes. Honestly, I think this is the album I was hoping DT12 would be.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Schurftkut on January 29, 2016, 08:28:28 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/Music/comments/438pam/ama_hey_i_am_john_petrucci_from_dream_theater_ask/


Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: senecadawg2 on January 29, 2016, 08:29:00 AM
Even if I accepted the insults targeted at the band, even if I took your opinions-stated-as-facts and even if I could get over the implications that DT should be less accessible and have failed to do so; even if I ran with all of that, I'd still have to question your knowledge of Steven Wilson.
Actually, you can : I don't like Steven Wilson's music that much, and don't know all his albums for that very reason. I've heard pretty much everything he's done after 2000 with Porcupine Tree or as a solo artist, though.

You can't dig your way out of this one. You simply can't.

ETA: I'm done on that topic. This is DT we're talking about. If you want to make bizarre comparisons to SW and his numerous projects, which I suspect no one is going to agree with, then you'd probably be better served doing so in the SW thread.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on January 29, 2016, 08:29:49 AM
3:28 of A Savior in the Square. Just as Gabriel is about to show them his gift... then scene freeze and spotlight on Gabriel as he sees Faythe for the first time. Magical.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: nikostheater on January 29, 2016, 08:31:00 AM
Just finished my first listen to the album..
Verdict:ASTONISHING!
Easily one of their best work in my opinion!
Great music,fantastic production,fantastic performance from all but i think the stand outs are JLB,JR,JP.
I LOVE the way the album flows.
There some things in the story that i need to clarify though because iTunes in their infinite wisdom neglected to include a booklet with the digital download..

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 29, 2016, 08:31:27 AM
I have a question about the title of the album. I have only listened once, while reading the lyrics. Why is the album named The Astonishing? In the end the lyrics say: eternally, in harmony our lives will be astonishing again. What do they mean by this?
As I understand it, they're gonna start making music once again. The NOMACs shut down and Lord Nafaryus saw the error of his ways.... All of this in true Disney fashion! *I personally love the ending so hard!*
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 29, 2016, 08:33:14 AM
Yeah i got that, but i don't understand how lives can be astonishing? It doesn't seem like the proper adjective for that  :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on January 29, 2016, 08:33:24 AM
Ravenskill could be the most moved I have even been by a DT song. Damn. That piano almost makes this old man cry. The whole
song just reeks with emotion.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on January 29, 2016, 08:33:55 AM
So much fantastic ideas all over the place, this will be an insanely tough album to digest. However, some things are obvious - there are plenty of wonderful recurring themes on the album, Jordan and John truly make a fantastic team when it comes to crafting the melodies, and of course, James LaBrie is the star of the album, he's all over the place and it's so much fun to listen to him alone.

As far as cons are concerned... I'm still getting used to the combination of piano and vocals being so prominent on a Dream Theater album. I sure love the sound of it, but some of the melodies didn't leave an impression on me. Yet. We'll see.

I've only given the album a few spins, but I'll still head over to "pick your favorite songs" thread to share my initial favorites.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 29, 2016, 08:35:47 AM
Yeah i got that, but i don't understand how lives can be astonishing? It doesn't seem like the proper adjective for that  :P

'The Incredible' or 'The Wonderful' didn't seem like proper album names.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kilgore Trout on January 29, 2016, 08:36:31 AM
You can't dig your way out of this one. You simply can't.

Wait, what? This is not about diging out. My phrase was simply meant to say that an artist like Steven Wilson pretty much always sounds more gritty than DT here, nothing more (and I could have chosen someone else). If Steven Wilson wrote some embarasingly cheesy songs with PT or as a solo artist that I don't know about, it doesn't really change anything. And if what you have in mind is Blackfield, yes, it's cheesy, but if you're trying to dig out everything Wilson wrote, you're totally missing the point.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 08:37:10 AM
:bosky: :bosky: :bosky: :bosky:


------------------------------------------------------------------

My CD will arrive tomorrow. :D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SeRoX on January 29, 2016, 08:39:28 AM
My first impression is I can love this album more than two last.

Other than that, MM is, uhmm not that good and I still can't hear the bass. These are the negative things. Overall, i can place it in my top 5.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 08:42:07 AM
This album is getting trashed on the Metallica forum of course.

" Not enough solos "

" Too many ballads "

" It's BORING ".

" Not enough F words and blastbeats " < - - i made that one up but I extrapolated.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2016, 08:43:11 AM
Who cares what another forum for a different band thinks? :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on January 29, 2016, 08:43:14 AM
I wish there was a way I could speak directly to the band and just tell them how fucking amazing I think this album is. I NEVER
thought I would feel this way about DT as far as emotional content. This album reaches down there where Pink Floyd dwells.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 29, 2016, 08:44:20 AM
This album is getting trashed on the Metallica forum of course.

" Not enough solos "

" Too many ballads "

" It's BORING ".

" Not enough F words and blastbeats " < - - i made that one up but I extrapolated.

Metallica forum lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on January 29, 2016, 08:44:44 AM
Yeah i got that, but i don't understand how lives can be astonishing? It doesn't seem like the proper adjective for that  :P

I googled "Astonishing" and I got, "extremely surprising or impressive; amazing"

The idea is that the people being allowed to make music again will introduce some more amazing and impressive things in their life. How did you feel the first time you ever listened to DT, or realized you loved it? That's what they'll finally be allowed to feel again.

As for why it's called 'The Astonishing,' as I understand it, The Astonishing is the process of Nafaryus realizing the true power of music and allowing it back into the world.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kilgore Trout on January 29, 2016, 08:45:11 AM
So you say about one of the most fan-friendly major bands out there (even after Portnoy's departure).
I don't see the link. They won't read this thread. It's not like I'm waiting for them at the end of a show to say to them that their album sucks.

Regardless, it doesn't foster good discussion. Notice the little tangent we are on.
But what discussion is even possible, except for some fans loving the album and saying "that part is great, that part is amazing, etc."- which is fine, but barely a discussion? It's an opinion thread. There isn't much more to say.

If anyone want to discus musical aspects of the album from a technical point of view (harmony, melody, rhythm, arrangements, thematic development, etc.), I can do that anytime you want. But the rest is pretty much just stating opinions (and saying how some opinions are bad, and others good), and not a discussion.

That being said, don't worry, I won't say anything bad anymore about the album, because it obviously hurts some people's feelings.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 08:48:33 AM

I won't say anything bad anymore about the album, because it obviously hurts some people's feelings.

their album sucks.

:clap: :bosky:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: senecadawg2 on January 29, 2016, 08:49:35 AM
You can't dig your way out of this one. You simply can't.

Wait, what? This is not about diging out. My phrase was simply meant to say that an artist like Steven Wilson pretty much always sounds more gritty than DT here, nothing more (and I could have chosen someone else). If Steven Wilson wrote some embarasingly cheesy songs with PT or as a solo artist that I don't know about, it doesn't really change anything. And if what you have in mind is Blackfield, yes, it's cheesy, but if you're trying to dig out everything Wilson wrote, you're totally missing the point.

You're speaking in nonspecific terms without defining them. First you said that nothing on this album is as "hardcore" as SW? What do you even mean by "hardcore"? Is that the same thing as "gritty"? Is that gritty and/or hardcore in regards to the production? The music? The song-writing?

I don't have a clue as to what you're trying to say. So when I say "dig out", I mean dig yourself out of a poorly-explained position which most are likely to disagree with you on anyways.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on January 29, 2016, 08:51:51 AM
Back to the topic, does anyone else think the way James sings "Faythe I treasure more than all the diamonds in my crown" is the most beautiful thing he's ever done?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kilgore Trout on January 29, 2016, 08:52:00 AM
This, along with the fact that you pointed out MMs drumming says to me you just miss Portnoy. And that's fine. But it's got to start dawning on people that there's 99% chance he's not coming back.

It has been pretty obvious to me for sometime. Portnoy brought the fun in DT, but also the taste for technicality and metal, three things that are pretty much gone now. This has little to do MM, I think, but with the fact that like I've said, the band that wrote The Dance of Eternity doesn't exist anymore. That how it goes...

And the metal parts are laughable? "Day after day, night after night..."

That is a good example : that part is laughable, but in a bad b-movie way. It's a failure, but when it's not taken seriously, it's fun. I don't hear parts that can be taken that way on the Astonishing (although you might say there are some B-movie aspects).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on January 29, 2016, 08:52:12 AM
Kilgore Trout, you can say what you want to about the album, provided it is not couched in insults like what I quoted above.  Not everyone likes the album, and that's cool.  In the 200+ page thread that preceded this one, there was plenty of good discussion, including great comments from those who did not like the songs they had heard.  That is all fine.  Whether you want to voice your dislikes constructively or keep them to yourself is up to you, but either of those options are allowed and do not break the forum rules.  But let's keep the discussion in the thread album-focused rather than turning into a debate about what you can and cannot post, or debates about who knows more about Wilson.  That is not what this thread is about.  (and that is a general comment to EVERYONE, not just Kilgore Trout)  Thanks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2016, 08:54:11 AM
Back to the topic, does anyone else think the way James sings "Faythe I treasure more than all the diamonds in my crown" is the most beautiful thing he's ever done?

That one's great. I'd also like to nominate Act of Faythe - I have always felt alone.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Art on January 29, 2016, 08:54:17 AM
Only 2 complete spins here, since this was a really busy week.

I really like the album, i haven´t read the lyrics/story yet, but as a musical piece it´s really good. Probably my favorite DT album since TOT.

As for the sounds/production, i see an improvement since the last 2 records, especially in the drums. It´s not perfect but it´s a lot better than it was on DT12.

The performances: As everybody said, JLB really shines here, a fantastic job. JP and JR delivered awesome performances, too. Theres great riffs, solos and melodies everywhere. MM did a fine job, keeping things going even if the music itself asks for simpler drums. JM is kinda buried in the mix, though  :sad: (or maybe it´s my earphones).

As for the favorite songs, it´s a little early for me, but i can say that i like The Gift Of Music, Lord Nayfarius, A New Begining and Our New World a lot. But i think the record works well as a whole.



 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 08:56:41 AM
Kilgore Trout, you can say what you want to about the album, provided it is not couched in insults like what I quoted above.  Not everyone likes the album, and that's cool.  In the 200+ page thread that preceded this one, there was plenty of good discussion, including great comments from those who did not like the songs they had heard.  That is all fine.  Whether you want to voice your dislikes constructively or keep them to yourself is up to you, but either of those options are allowed and do not break the forum rules.  But let's keep the discussion in the thread album-focused rather than turning into a debate about what you can and cannot post, or debates about who knows more about Wilson.  That is not what this thread is about.  (and that is a general comment to EVERYONE, not just Kilgore Trout)  Thanks.

Even if I outright hated this album - i'd never just post " this album sucks ".

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kilgore Trout on January 29, 2016, 08:57:38 AM
You're speaking in nonspecific terms without defining them.
Yeah, like everyone is using specific terms in this topic.

First you said that nothing on this album is as "hardcore" as SW?
That is not even what I wrote.

I don't have a clue as to what you're trying to say. So when I say "dig out", I mean dig yourself out of a poorly-explained position which most are likely to disagree with you on anyways.
I thought I stated my genre impressions (and nothing more) in words and sentences that were simple enough to understand, like everyone else did.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ASacrificedSon on January 29, 2016, 08:59:27 AM
The Astonishing?
I just listened to it today and......it was great!
My thoughts: I miss those long songs. At least one 11 minute would've done it for me. Other than that, I don't really care about solos and such, but I find the story to be phenomenon. I honestly like the story more than Metropolis Part 2's cheesy story.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kilgore Trout on January 29, 2016, 09:03:25 AM

I won't say anything bad anymore about the album, because it obviously hurts some people's feelings.

their album sucks.

:clap: :bosky:
Gosh. Don't read implications where there are none. I wrote "It's not like I'm waiting for them at the end of a show to say to them that their album sucks". I wasn't saying the album sucks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on January 29, 2016, 09:04:50 AM
Again, can we please turn the discussion to the actual content of the album rather than arguing over each others' positions?  Thanks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Aythesryche on January 29, 2016, 09:05:03 AM
I have an excellent audio system in my car, so I'm going on a nice long road trip now to listen to the new album. Brb.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: senecadawg2 on January 29, 2016, 09:05:20 AM
Never mind Kilgore--we're at an impasse and distracting from the thread.

More relevant question: do most agree that JLB is the MVP?

I think JR put in really solid work as well, but I'm curious to hear what others have to say.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jdprsaga on January 29, 2016, 09:06:39 AM
Whenever I get a new Dream Theater Album (or rush for that matter) I usually give them a few spins without trying to dig to much into details. More in a relax kinda let the album drive my mood way.
This has work pretty well before because I'm not comparing parts to previous albums/songs/bands etc. and usually make my experience with the album unbiassed. Only After a few spins then i start digging deeper into details (lyrics, music, etc)

So here my feelings/thoughts
My first spin: It felt really Fresh! The darker/less balladish songs stood out for me. First listen my favorites were three days and the walking shadow.
After a few spins: ballads really growing strong on me. but I'm all into nafaryous voice.. freaking bad ass and fresh in my mind. Act of fythe and X Aspect grew a lot on  me.

I think this album will grown on me a lot, specially when convined with all DT discography, whenever I feel overwhelmed with DT sound I'll be able to spin some songs from TA for a breath! I gotta say I feel the same with falling into infinity, it's fresh in the mist of all DT albums.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thedrumanimal on January 29, 2016, 09:09:29 AM
 :omg:
Damn that Xander dude is really pissed in the walking shadow.

Amazing song.  :metal That time shifting part:  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sacul on January 29, 2016, 09:12:07 AM
Whenever I get a new Dream Theater Album (or rush for that matter) I usually give them a few spins without trying to dig to much into details. More in a relax kinda let the album drive my mood way.
This has work pretty well before because I'm not comparing parts to previous albums/songs/bands etc. and usually make my experience with the album unbiassed. Only After a few spins then i start digging deeper into details (lyrics, music, etc)
I find this to be the only reasonable approach to listening to any music, really. Trying to get all in your head at first is a pointless imo.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: blackmetal666 on January 29, 2016, 09:21:17 AM
This freaking album is fantastic.  It definitely grows on you.  With each listen more things start to stick out.  After my first listen I thought it was decent.
Now after multiple spins...I love it.

Easily best album since Scenes.
I can't stop listening.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Train of Naught on January 29, 2016, 09:30:49 AM
Lol. Just noticed The Hovering Sojourn is too short for last.fm to register for some reason.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 09:31:46 AM
Again, can we please turn the discussion to the actual content of the album rather than arguing over each others' positions?  Thanks.

:zydar:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RuRoRul on January 29, 2016, 09:31:57 AM
Just finished my first listen.

I had avoided discussing this upcoming album too much because, to be honest, I was a little bit concerned about how it would hold up.

Well the first thing I did after finishing it was play it again :lol I am not sure I will have time to listen to it all again in one go but I really want to hear it again, so that is a good sign.

On initial listen, Three Days is my favourite track from there. The Path That Divides, Dystopian Overture, The Gift Of Music, Moment Of Betrayal and the good early duo of A Better Life and Lord Nafaryus are the other most memorable standouts for me. (Obviously I have heard The Gift Of Music and Moment Of Betrayal before, but they I thought they were both pretty good on their own and they are better as part of the album and in better quality). Several more were good and have potential to be among my favourites I am sure, but those are the ones I remembered most clearly after one listen.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 29, 2016, 09:40:07 AM
Yeah i got that, but i don't understand how lives can be astonishing? It doesn't seem like the proper adjective for that  :P

I googled "Astonishing" and I got, "extremely surprising or impressive; amazing"

The idea is that the people being allowed to make music again will introduce some more amazing and impressive things in their life. How did you feel the first time you ever listened to DT, or realized you loved it? That's what they'll finally be allowed to feel again.

As for why it's called 'The Astonishing,' as I understand it, The Astonishing is the process of Nafaryus realizing the true power of music and allowing it back into the world.

Thanks, that made a lot of sense!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 09:41:27 AM
I only listened to ACT I once thru last night as I had work in 9 hours :lol

But - whilst not everything stood out as memorable - i'm certain that's new album syndrome.

Obviously there were highlights and the production is stellar.

Descent of The NOMACs  :omg:  DAT SOUND.

SO many cool moments.

That Primus-y section on Three Days. i actually grinned so hard and went like \m/  :biggrin: \m/ AWESOME - at that part.

ACT II later.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 29, 2016, 09:43:56 AM
Do you really put Descent of the NOMACs as a highlight? Bring that one to the controversial opinions thread  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: robin5749 on January 29, 2016, 09:49:22 AM
just started act two, all I can say so far is james labrie is wonderful.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on January 29, 2016, 09:49:52 AM
First off I would like to thank Amazon for delivering this YESTERDAY!!!


I have been begging for two things from a DT album:
1. Way more piano
2. Allowing James to go off


This album does both!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ASacrificedSon on January 29, 2016, 09:53:00 AM
First off I would like to thank Amazon for delivering this YESTERDAY!!!


I have been begging for two things from a DT album:
1. Way more piano
2. Allowing James to go off


This album does both!

I totally agree with number 2, but for number 1...
I'm more of a Petrucci person. I wish their were more guitar solos than piano. My opinion though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Viking of the Sagas on January 29, 2016, 09:56:39 AM
Lord Nafaryus. I am in love with this song. This is new DT, a sound I haven't ever heard from them. I absolutely adore it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 29, 2016, 09:58:10 AM
Brace yourself, bow down to Nafaryus :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Viking of the Sagas on January 29, 2016, 10:00:13 AM
Indeed... and the next sound sounds like an epic mix of Star Wars... and METTAALLL

Honestly, this album is so much hype. The first few songs were a bit bland... BUT THEN IT KICKED OFF! THE JOURNEY, AND THE ADVENTURE!

The melodies are next level. Not bland or boring, maybe cliched but I don't care, it's just what I love. It's the sort of cliched DT has never done before. And that's epic

In short, this album is to live for.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 29, 2016, 10:00:41 AM
Brace yourself, bow down to Nafaryus :metal

That's more badass than anything on DT12.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Viking of the Sagas on January 29, 2016, 10:02:46 AM
I have to agree... these songs put the previous album to shame.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Podaar on January 29, 2016, 10:08:56 AM
I've only been able to listen up through "The Hovering Sojourn" so far, but it was really fun. So ridiculous and awesome that it became ridiculously awesome. I can't count the amount of times I laughed out loud. JLB was so fantastic in "Three Days".. that haughty laugh was perfect!

One thing that really stood out for me, was that it's totally a headphone album. The drums really sound fantastic and get out of the way with headphones on. Rumby's "typewriter" kick-drums completely disappear.

So, paint me happy...so far.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ronnibran on January 29, 2016, 10:10:36 AM
OMG this is amazing.  It is crazy to think that I'm only roughly 1/4 through this.  It is so unbelievably awesome so far.  Right now I'm at the "my music player" part of Act Of Faythe.  This is so incredibly awesome. 

Dystopian Overture was simply amazing also.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Marion Crane on January 29, 2016, 10:11:46 AM
I definitely need to listen to it again, this time with the lyrics. I feel like I'm watching Lord of the Rings with the sound off or something. Some really cool "visuals", but otherwise I really don't know what's going on. And LOTS of walking.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on January 29, 2016, 10:14:08 AM
I have to agree... these songs put the previous album to shame.
Wow, that is saying alot! I love DT 12 probably more than most on this forum.  I have to wait another week to hear TA, my local record store forgot to order it and I requested it a week ago..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Phoenix87x on January 29, 2016, 10:15:10 AM
I have no solid idea what I think of this thing yet, but I will give them credit for trying something totally different.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 29, 2016, 10:16:25 AM
I have to agree... these songs put the previous album to shame.
Wow, that is saying alot! I love DT 12 probably more than most on this forum.  I have to wait another week to hear TA, my local record store forgot to order it and I requested it a week ago..

I reccommend getting it on HDtracks.com!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MikeDavis67 on January 29, 2016, 10:22:04 AM
Our New World...   OMG.  Love the melody, vibe, triumphant sound, absolutely FANTASTIC!!!!!!!  Not overly complicated just a terrific Anthem sound!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 29, 2016, 10:22:35 AM
I can hear something weird in the end of the vocals on A Tempting Offer. What is that sound James is making? Is it some weird editing? Sound like he's saying: take the evening to decide... ivdsh
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MikeDavis67 on January 29, 2016, 10:22:46 AM
YES!

First impression:

This is some of the most special, most melodic and beautiful music Dream Theater has even written.

Cannot state this more.  Well put!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 29, 2016, 10:28:21 AM
Okay what is this "gift" Gabriel has? Am I dumb?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2016, 10:29:08 AM
Okay what is this "gift" Gabriel has? Am I dumb?

The gift of music!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on January 29, 2016, 10:29:28 AM
I have to agree... these songs put the previous album to shame.
Wow, that is saying alot! I love DT 12 probably more than most on this forum.  I have to wait another week to hear TA, my local record store forgot to order it and I requested it a week ago..

I reccommend getting it on HDtracks.com!
Thanks for the heads up..  I don't have a computer at the moment, just a Android phone. I have to wait for the cd next Friday. There are no best buys in my area and I seriously doubt Wal-Mart will have it. My local record store is only open Thursday through Saturday..lame!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 29, 2016, 10:29:35 AM
Okay what is this "gift" Gabriel has? Am I dumb?

He can ressurect people by singing  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Polarbear on January 29, 2016, 10:30:06 AM
There is really no way to form a verdict for this album, after just one listen. I need to spin the album couple more times first.

First Impressions:

There are some pretty forgettable moments, but as a whole it's really solid! And it goes without saying that it completely destroys the self titled album.

Early favorites are Ravenskill, A Life Left Behind, and of course a little gem called A New Beginning.

I was ready to throw in the towel for DT after the last album, they pulled me right back with this one!  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Viking of the Sagas on January 29, 2016, 10:30:26 AM
Ravenskill is an amazing song! Some parts reminded me of Billy Talent just a tiny bit xD
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MikeDavis67 on January 29, 2016, 10:30:49 AM
I have to agree... these songs put the previous album to shame.
Wow, that is saying alot! I love DT 12 probably more than most on this forum.  I have to wait another week to hear TA, my local record store forgot to order it and I requested it a week ago..

I reccommend getting it on HDtracks.com!
Thanks for the heads up..  I don't have a computer at the moment, just a Android phone. I have to wait for the cd next Friday. There are no best buys in my area and I seriously doubt Wal-Mart will have it. My local record store is only open Thursday through Saturday..lame!
If you are Jonesing for it... get a Spotify Premium subscription.  its how I am listening to it right now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MikeDavis67 on January 29, 2016, 10:35:49 AM
Lord Nafaryus. I am in love with this song. This is new DT, a sound I haven't ever heard from them. I absolutely adore it.

I'm not sure why but I get a Queen vibe in parts...  Bohemian Rhapsodyesque? Combined with something else...  Definitely sounds very good
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Letter M on January 29, 2016, 10:36:12 AM
The band has the whole album up on youtube if anyone is interested.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLToa5JuFMsXR7S5f8Ti0IWHYFOU5WclqA

And yes, it IS a verified official DT youtube page, and the whole album was uploaded yesterday. So enjoy, especially for those of you who are still waiting for their physical order to come in!

-Marc.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 29, 2016, 10:42:20 AM
Was anyone else surprise Daryus is Nafaryus' son, not brother? He looks so old. Wonder what's the age difference between him and Faythe
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 29, 2016, 10:45:32 AM
Somebody is slacking the living shit out of putting the lyrics on the website..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on January 29, 2016, 10:47:15 AM
I have to agree... these songs put the previous album to shame.
Wow, that is saying alot! I love DT 12 probably more than most on this forum.  I have to wait another week to hear TA, my local record store forgot to order it and I requested it a week ago..

I reccommend getting it on HDtracks.com!
Thanks for the heads up..  I don't have a computer at the moment, just a Android phone. I have to wait for the cd next Friday. There are no best buys in my area and I seriously doubt Wal-Mart will have it. My local record store is only open Thursday through Saturday..lame!
If you are Jonesing for it... get a Spotify Premium subscription.  its how I am listening to it right now.
Thanks, but my phone plan has limited Data and would send my bill through the roof with an alb7m this long, lol!  I'll just have to wait. I made it 43 years of my life without hearing it, I guess I can go for another week. I better stay away from the burgers and fries to increase my odds of survival during the wait..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: aurorablind on January 29, 2016, 10:47:27 AM
Story question/critisism:

Okey, correct me if Im wrong.
So, Daryus kidnapped Xander and threatened to kill him if Arhys didn`t bring him Gabriel. Daryus kills Arhys and almost kills his sister.

In "Astonishing", Arabelle sings:
" My prince, my son
You got lost along the way
In light of this new burden that you face
you are forgiven on this day"

He got off quite easily, dont ya think?  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: LCArenas on January 29, 2016, 10:50:05 AM
Finished it!

My expectatives for this album were really different from what I got, since I pretty much expected another Scenes from a Memory.

I mean.. No songs longer than 10 minutes, no long, trade-off solo sections, a lot of ballads and songs in 4/4...

AND I REALLY LIKE THAT! They tried something different and it really worked. They don't really have to prove that they can do all the stuff I mentioned before. We already have ToT for heavy songs, BC&SL for long trade-off solos, TDoE, Raw Dog and Enigma Machine, a shitload of songs that last more than 10 minutes (Not to mention they can do that again in the next albums if they wanted to)... Why not trying something different this time?

Liked the orchestral arrangements, ABSOLUTELY LOVED the choir sections, really good melodies here and there, but the thing that I appreciate the most is that I felt James was the best part of this album. Let's be honest with ourselves: Ever since SFAM the protagonists of the band have been JP, JR, and ocasionally JM and MP/MM, at least in my opinion. James has had stand-outs here and there, but I've always felt the focus has been more on the instrumental parts of the songs rather than on the vocals of them. Not this time! James rocked the fucking album from beginning to end. It really showed how versatile his voice can be and how quintessential he is to DT.

It also surprised me to see that a lot of people are liking Act I more than Act II though. I liked Act II a lot more! I listened to Act I last night and Act II this morning, so I guess it might be because of that.

I'll need to give it a couple of listens before I rank it, but I really, really liked it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 29, 2016, 10:51:38 AM
Let's hope The Astonishing website is fully unlocked....

:soon:

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 29, 2016, 10:53:08 AM
I can hear something weird in the end of the vocals on A Tempting Offer. What is that sound James is making? Is it some weird editing? Sound like he's saying: take the evening to decide... ivdsh

Did anyone else hear this?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pdurbin22 on January 29, 2016, 10:53:52 AM
Somebody is slacking the living shit out of putting the lyrics on the website..

Seriously! I'd really like to have that before my next listen. I ordered on iTunes which didn't come with a digital booklet, so I unfortunately have nothing to go on right now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 29, 2016, 10:54:16 AM
I can hear something weird in the end of the vocals on A Tempting Offer. What is that sound James is making? Is it some weird editing? Sound like he's saying: take the evening to decide... ivdsh

Did anyone else hear this?

Yes. It was even asked about from Petrucci in his AMA. He didn't know what it was
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 29, 2016, 10:54:26 AM
The band has the whole album up on youtube if anyone is interested.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLToa5JuFMsXR7S5f8Ti0IWHYFOU5WclqA

And yes, it IS a verified official DT youtube page, and the whole album was uploaded yesterday. So enjoy, especially for those of you who are still waiting for their physical order to come in!

-Marc.

Very smart on their behalf, given people upload DT songs to youtube every day.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on January 29, 2016, 10:55:35 AM
Astonishing (the song) sounds like The Spirit Carries On then Beneath the Surface
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 29, 2016, 10:57:53 AM
Do you really put Descent of the NOMACs as a highlight? Bring that one to the controversial opinions thread  :lol

Me too, I love All NOMACS Track, Descent of NOMACS is the best NOMACS Track for me
I never play Dystopian Overture directly, I always play Descent of NOMACS first before listening Dystopian Overture.
NOMACS Track raising up my fantasy about the story and atmosphere  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 29, 2016, 10:59:03 AM
I can hear something weird in the end of the vocals on A Tempting Offer. What is that sound James is making? Is it some weird editing? Sound like he's saying: take the evening to decide... ivdsh

Did anyone else hear this?

Yes. It was even asked about from Petrucci in his AMA. He didn't know what it was

I don't care about the "mistake" people said was in A Gift of Music. But in A Tempting Offer it sounds like they cut the word in half, adding a swallowing sound in the middle of it?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JMSE on January 29, 2016, 10:59:54 AM
The end of Descent of the NOMACs is going to be epic live.Hans Zimmer meets Robots
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RuRoRul on January 29, 2016, 11:00:12 AM
In my lyric book, during The Walking Shadow, (spoilers ahead I suppose) it attributes the part threatening Arhys' son ("Confront your death, like father like son") to Arhys himself (who has just been killed) rather than Daryus. Does everyone else's have this mistake? :lol:

Apologies if it has been mentioned before.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 29, 2016, 11:04:35 AM
Lord Bug.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 29, 2016, 11:07:16 AM
Lord Bug.

Remember Bug?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on January 29, 2016, 11:13:40 AM
In my lyric book, during The Walking Shadow, (spoilers ahead I suppose) it attributes the part threatening Arhys' son ("Confront your death, like father like son") to Arhys himself (who has just been killed) rather than Daryus. Does everyone else's have this mistake? :lol:

Apologies if it has been mentioned before.

I was going to mention this earlier, then thought maybe it was Ahrys saying it with his dying breath for Xander to just accept his fate like Father like son.

Also what happens to Daryus in the end? He never gets his comeuppance!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MikeDavis67 on January 29, 2016, 11:13:49 AM
Somebody is slacking the living shit out of putting the lyrics on the website..
This
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 29, 2016, 11:14:06 AM
Story question/critisism:

Okey, correct me if Im wrong.
So, Daryus kidnapped Xander and threatened to kill him if Arhys didn`t bring him Gabriel. Daryus kills Arhys and almost kills his sister.

In "Astonishing", Arabelle sings:
" My prince, my son
You got lost along the way
In light of this new burden that you face
you are forgiven on this day"

He got off quite easily, dont ya think?  :lol
Yes, almost not making sense at all. One thing that disappoint me about the story in The Astonishing
There is no an actual fight and war between The Great Northern Empire and Ravenskill Rebel Militia. From the begining, they made us think there will be a big war between TGNEA and Ravenskill, you can see it in trailer, but then what we got?
I think it will be great if there is a war between Empire Guards and Ravenskill troop before finally story of Walking Shadow Start.
Disc 2 must have more song to tell story about war, The Astonishing must have 20 track each Disk, hahaha  ;D

Sorry for my bad english
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 11:15:47 AM
My CD is " On The Way ! "  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: metrojam on January 29, 2016, 11:17:23 AM
First off I would like to thank Amazon for delivering this YESTERDAY!!!


I have been begging for two things from a DT album:
1. Way more piano
2. Allowing James to go off


This album does both!

I totally agree with number 2, but for number 1...
I'm more of a Petrucci person. I wish their were more guitar solos than piano. My opinion though.

Agree 100% with that...after about what seemed like the 8th (at least) piano introduction to a song, I was beginning to wish someone had shoved that Piano somewhere where the sun don't shine!!!!
Agree that James is the MVP on the album but that damn piano after only about 2/3rds the way through Act 1, wins the award for the most annoying thing on it!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: LCArenas on January 29, 2016, 11:18:04 AM
Story question/critisism:

Okey, correct me if Im wrong.
So, Daryus kidnapped Xander and threatened to kill him if Arhys didn`t bring him Gabriel. Daryus kills Arhys and almost kills his sister.

In "Astonishing", Arabelle sings:
" My prince, my son
You got lost along the way
In light of this new burden that you face
you are forgiven on this day"

He got off quite easily, dont ya think?  :lol
Yes, almost not making sense at all. One thing that disappoint me about the story in The Astonishing
There is no an actual fight and war between The Great Northern Empire and Ravenskill Rebel Militia. From the begining, they made us think there will be a big war between TGNEA and Ravenskill, you can see it in trailer, but then what we got?
I think it will be great if there is a war between Empire Guards and Ravenskill troop before finally story of Walking Shadow Start.
Disc 2 must have more song to tell story about war, The Astonishing must have 20 track each Disk, hahaha  ;D

Sorry for my bad english
That's true. Also whatever happened to Nafaryus anyway? Did he die? I didn't really understand what happened to him at the end.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dreamer on January 29, 2016, 11:18:59 AM
I like it a lot more on a 2nd listen. Am I the only one to spot a direct melodic similarity to Rush's Cygnus Bringer Of Balance (from Hemispheres) on disc 1?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TioJorge on January 29, 2016, 11:19:24 AM
Story question/critisism:

Okey, correct me if Im wrong.
So, Daryus kidnapped Xander and threatened to kill him if Arhys didn`t bring him Gabriel. Daryus kills Arhys and almost kills his sister.

In "Astonishing", Arabelle sings:
" My prince, my son
You got lost along the way
In light of this new burden that you face
you are forgiven on this day"

He got off quite easily, dont ya think?  :lol
Yes, almost not making sense at all. One thing that disappoint me about the story in The Astonishing
There is no an actual fight and war between The Great Northern Empire and Ravenskill Rebel Militia. From the begining, they made us think there will be a big war between TGNEA and Ravenskill, you can see it in trailer, but then what we got?
I think it will be great if there is a war between Empire Guards and Ravenskill troop before finally story of Walking Shadow Start.
Disc 2 must have more song to tell story about war, The Astonishing must have 20 track each Disk, hahaha  ;D

Sorry for my bad english
That's true. Also whatever happened to Nafaryus anyway? Did he die? I didn't really understand what happened to him at the end.

I think he becomes astonished or something.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 29, 2016, 11:19:38 AM
Okay what is this "gift" Gabriel has? Am I dumb?

He can ressurect people by singing  ;D
Since that, all people who gonna die, come to gabriel for more life. And Gabriel become a magic doctor rather than a Savior
Welcome immortal life
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 11:20:50 AM
Written by Bob Orci & Alex Kurtzman.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on January 29, 2016, 11:22:33 AM
I like that when you heard those crickets chirping at the start of a song you just know you're in Heaven's Cove  :hat
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Panar on January 29, 2016, 11:23:35 AM
I can hear something weird in the end of the vocals on A Tempting Offer. What is that sound James is making? Is it some weird editing? Sound like he's saying: take the evening to decide... ivdsh

Did anyone else hear this?

Sounds like a serious mistake in the editing stage. How didn't anyone noticed this?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 29, 2016, 11:24:56 AM
I can hear something weird in the end of the vocals on A Tempting Offer. What is that sound James is making? Is it some weird editing? Sound like he's saying: take the evening to decide... ivdsh

Did anyone else hear this?

Sounds like a serious mistake in the editing stage. How didn't anyone noticed this?

It's so sad to know that such a big mistake will be there forever...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 29, 2016, 11:25:14 AM
Story question/critisism:

Okey, correct me if Im wrong.
So, Daryus kidnapped Xander and threatened to kill him if Arhys didn`t bring him Gabriel. Daryus kills Arhys and almost kills his sister.

In "Astonishing", Arabelle sings:
" My prince, my son
You got lost along the way
In light of this new burden that you face
you are forgiven on this day"

He got off quite easily, dont ya think?  :lol
Yes, almost not making sense at all. One thing that disappoint me about the story in The Astonishing
There is no an actual fight and war between The Great Northern Empire and Ravenskill Rebel Militia. From the begining, they made us think there will be a big war between TGNEA and Ravenskill, you can see it in trailer, but then what we got?
I think it will be great if there is a war between Empire Guards and Ravenskill troop before finally story of Walking Shadow Start.
Disc 2 must have more song to tell story about war, The Astonishing must have 20 track each Disk, hahaha  ;D

Sorry for my bad english
That's true. Also whatever happened to Nafaryus anyway? Did he die? I didn't really understand what happened to him at the end.
Thats why we need more song in disc 2, to explain everything. I agree with them who said Disc 2 end quickly  :-\
Hope someone ask petrucci about end the story in reddit, remember he make the story
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Benedettosoxfan on January 29, 2016, 11:30:21 AM
Long time lurker that really only posts when new albums come out here.
Wow what an adventure! This is something you definitely need to have an open mind about. I normally look at albums as just collections of songs rather than one unit so it's a little different digesting this especially on the first go around. As a 2 hour work of music, not necessarily as a collection of songs, I think it's excellent. I've only heard the whole thing once so I'm sure that the whole clump of ballad type songs will start to distinguish themselves in no time because I cannot remember which song is which at all right now  :P There are obviously standouts as many have said like Three Days, the "I'm Waking Up" one, and A New Beginning. Also, Dystopian Overture makes a serious bid as their best instrumental for me. REALLY strong way to open the album and had me super pumped for what's to come.
A couple funny things to point out-
Why is there a song called "A New Beginning" and a song called "Begin Again?"
This is maybe the first time that I actually listened to the final 15 seconds of a Dream Theater song.
I love how there is no clear best song on the album or even a tier of 2 or 3 that stand head and shoulders above the rest. There's like 12 that I've seen people absolutely rave about exclusively and I just think that's really cool.
I think that the coolest thing about this album is that it's obvious the band had a lot of fun doing something completely different and my goodness did they give it their all. Say what you will about the album, you can't say they didn't give it 110% and pull out all the stops. I love the goofy parts and I wish I could have been a fly on the wall when they were discussing whether or not to do bagpipes, tangos, ragtime, etc.
For a band that has such a distinguished resume of music, I'm really glad they did The Astonishing. The worst case scenario is that there is a HUGE catalogue of outstanding music to go back to even if you don't like it. Luckily, I don't just like it, I love it. :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Art on January 29, 2016, 11:30:51 AM
Paying attention to The X Aspect for the first time here. Some Pink Floyd feelings in the acoustic part.

PS: A New Beginning just kicked in, DAT RIFF  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on January 29, 2016, 11:43:19 AM
JLB is such a beast.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on January 29, 2016, 11:43:35 AM
So happy to finally hold this in my hands!

Must confess the package is a bit of a letdown; white on white on the internal cover, the booklet is stuck to the case and the lyrics (in plain Arial?) are a bit hard to read... anyway, the music will the the only thing that will matter, looking forward to hear it tomorrow since tonight I go out! feels so good to finally have it  :hat
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on January 29, 2016, 11:44:21 AM

I am starting to think that JP may actually have bigger plans for this one because one does not just write a real rock opera if there is no intention for it to be staged as one.


We're still yet to see how it's presented live. For all we know, JLB will have 56 costume changes during the show. :P

So the costume changes it what takes up the remaining time.  I would rather have the encore.

Anticipating the first fan reviews on the concert.  Kind of nervous since I already have tickets to a later show. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on January 29, 2016, 11:44:30 AM

PS: A New Beginning just kicked in, DAT RIFF  :metal
DAT OUTRO SOLO  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 29, 2016, 11:46:43 AM
JLB is such a beast.

Quoted for unseasoned truth.

He's the MVP on this album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YtseJohn on January 29, 2016, 11:56:08 AM
looks like https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishing is finally updating (places, 2nd video)

I got to it from the Tour dates.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 29, 2016, 11:57:09 AM
New update from Website !!
Place are unlocked !!

But why second video is the same trailer from first video !??  :huh:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cream theater on January 29, 2016, 11:58:10 AM
I don't post much and I'm one of the few fans who don't play an instrument but this album is really really good.  I couldn't care less about time signatures, drum sound or mixing etc. I just want a great experience and this album gives it like Santa Claus on Christmas Day. For the detractors ... Well they're just NOMACS.  Fav songs so far are tracks 1 to 34
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on January 29, 2016, 11:58:58 AM
New update from Website !!
Place are unlocked !!

And there's also the other video... but it looks like the same as the first trailer?  ???
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 29, 2016, 12:01:45 PM
I'm disappointed that the NOMAC eyes still do nothing
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 29, 2016, 12:01:49 PM
https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks
 (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks)

The song explanations are up!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 29, 2016, 12:03:15 PM
New update from Website !!
Place are unlocked !!

And there's also the other video... but it looks like the same as the first trailer?  ???

Yeah, I dont know what happen, but it like there's a mistake. look like wrong youtube link they put there  :huh:
I keep my eye both in DT website and their youtube channel, to see if something new is coming
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on January 29, 2016, 12:04:40 PM
So is Bug a former musician?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 29, 2016, 12:05:47 PM
https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks
 (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks)

The song explanations are up!

Wow !!! It also have clearer GNEA map !!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: LCArenas on January 29, 2016, 12:07:03 PM
https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks
 (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks)

The song explanations are up!
Quote
The very soul of what was once real music is now lost in a digital quagmire of emotionless sonic madness.
OOOOOOH SHOTS FIRED
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 29, 2016, 12:07:07 PM
I've just begun my first listen. I prefer to wait until the early evening and settle down to the whole thing, for my first go at an album. This moment. I have been waiting months for this, and now it's happening. Loving reading everyone's first impressions here.  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on January 29, 2016, 12:09:29 PM
Calvin?
yes?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on January 29, 2016, 12:10:02 PM
I've just begun my first listen. I prefer to wait until the early evening and settle down to the whole thing, for my first go at an album. This moment. I have been waiting months for this, and now it's happening. Loving reading everyone's first impressions here.  :tup

Same thing I was aiming for, savoring the moment, the wait, and finally enjoy it the way I like it. For me it will happen tomorrow, but it's cool to see that also other people can enjoy the wait and especially its end!

Cool to see the website is indeed developing with the songs explanations!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 29, 2016, 12:10:18 PM
Interesting part in the end:
"Peace has at last been restored to The Empire and the people now pledge their allegiance to a new way of life; A better life where art and creative individualism are celebrated and the astonishing power of music made by humans is treasured and enjoyed by all once again, and so it shall be forever."

So The Astonishing refers to the astonishing power of music!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on January 29, 2016, 12:15:03 PM
The other video is also up. Same video though??
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hanz Gruber on January 29, 2016, 12:18:50 PM
Need to give it another spin but I am a little underwhelmed.  Don;t get me wrong...I like it...just not quite what I hoped it would be.   

I wish they would simply go back and make an album with 9 to 12 good songs (like Awake, Falling into Infinity, or even Octavarium...even though it only had 8 songs) 

I appreciate the band taking big risks and doing something different...I just would rather hear songs that stand on their own that aren't part of a concept.  This is coming from a guy that loved Scenes, Six Degrees, and Savatage albums like Dead Winter Dead and The Wake of Magellan.

I suspect that I will like it more more on the 2nd listen but I still wish they would go back to an Awake format.  I appreciate it any time Dream Theater releases music though. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 12:21:05 PM
PLACES TAB IS NOW OPEN.


NOMAC EYES CLICKABLE..


THIS IS NOT A DRILL..  :omg: :omg: :omg:



EDIT : Spoke too soon. Nomac eyes still do diddly squat :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Anguyen92 on January 29, 2016, 12:23:22 PM
All right, just bought the album at Best Buy, going to listen to it soon.  I have very high hopes for this one.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: 7enderbender on January 29, 2016, 12:26:15 PM
I was right. Or actually not: this is even worse than expected. The issue with this "concept" was already clear. and now there is the music to go with it. Yikes.
I never liked Scenes from a Memory because of the ridiculous concept/movie theme, but it had at least a few good songs. This thing however? Somebody please tell Petrucci to get off his high horse. And please send Jordan Rudass packing.
I'll happily be listening to Awake on my way home from work today instead of hitting the record store. This band is done it seems. At least artistically.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MacClaus on January 29, 2016, 12:28:06 PM
The band should read the reviews at Amazon.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on January 29, 2016, 12:30:20 PM
So far: I love this album. I've actually been enjoying it more with every listen. I'm on my 4th listen through, and I've also done a lot of skipping around to the standout tracks (Which happens to be almost half of them).

The good:
This album sounds very refreshing to me, even as someone who ranks DT12 and ADTOE consistently in the top half of their catalogue. This to me sounds like a band that's enjoying themselves, and in return, I'm enjoying listening to it basically constantly the whole time I've been awake since the album dropped (I skipped school for this release  :rollin :metal). They've completely committed to this huge concept, and it works out very well in my opinion. It doesn't sound like they've held back from anything on this album. From the pre-release build up, to the story, characters, places, and to the music itself; the strings, brass, woodwinds, bagpipes, electronic stuff, ballads, metal, and all the other little things (The rock tango as someone called, and the 20s music straight into the blast beats  :lol). And astonishingly, I generally enjoy all of it.

I'm glad to have more piano, and JLB does such an excellent job portraying the characters, especially Nafaryus. I'm a particular fan of what Mangini has done on this album. There are so many great grooves, fills, and little intricacies too. Plus the drum sound is better than the last 5 albums imo. So far, I haven't dived into the actually story, but I have a general idea of whats going on. I already bought the MP3s on Amazon, and I'm gonna go pick up a CD in an hour or so so I can read along the lyrics booklet. Overall I'm just happy that the music and the concept fit well together, because I was really worried about that. I tend to like themed/concept/rock opera albums less because the lyrics feel shoehorned in, but that isn't the case here. Big fan of what the band has accomplished with this album.

Standout tracks:
Dystopian Overture
The Gift Of Music
A Better Life
Lord Nafaryus
A Savior In The Square
Act Of Faythe
Three Days
Ravenskill
A tempting Offer
A New Beginning
Moment Of Betrayal
Heaven's Cove
The Walking Shadow
Our New World

(These are the ones I tend to skip around to)

The bad:
Many people have pointed out that sometimes the songs lack an individual identity, too many piano intros, etc., and I agree. Obviously this will be the case to a certain extent with any album of this scope I would imagine, but I feel it could've been done a bit better without compromised the flow or story. Of course, they will probably develop their own identity as I listen more. A decent number have done that already.
Another complaint I have is about the ballads. I have no problem with the number of ballads, but rather the placement in a couple places. Sometimes they seem to run together, and it messed with the pacing a lot on my first listen.
Minor things: Not a fan of sound effects, but I don't mind them enough to care.
Sometimes lyrics are just flat out cheesy, but that isn't to extreme, or in too many places, so it's also not a big deal.

Honestly, none of these things is a major problem for me. It hardly detracts from my enjoyment of this album.

Misc.
- Everyone is talking about the vibes the get from songs. I'm getting a MAJOR James Bond vibes from 3:12 to 3:30
- Hate the clapping sound in Hymn of a Thousand Voices with a passion
- There's a melody somewhere that remind me very closely of War Inside My Head, but I forgot where it was. I think one of Nafaryus's songs.
- This will probably sit at a solid 4th in my rankings once all the hype is gone
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jjfumbly on January 29, 2016, 12:30:28 PM
The opening guitar in Heaven's Cove sounds a LOT like the opening guitar in On the Backs of Angels.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: darkshade on January 29, 2016, 12:35:31 PM
My local record shop had the new album stocked last night. Went out and bought it, but haven't had a chance to listen yet. Going for a run soon, likely going to put it on headphones. Is it good running music?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 12:36:59 PM
ACT II

2285 Entr'acte.

Well it's like another overture. An underture  :biggrin: But definitely not an over CHORE :neverusethis:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on January 29, 2016, 12:37:29 PM
The opening guitar in Heaven's Cove sounds a LOT like the opening guitar in On the Backs of Angels.

Yes it does.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Train of Naught on January 29, 2016, 12:39:02 PM
I can hear something weird in the end of the vocals on A Tempting Offer. What is that sound James is making? Is it some weird editing? Sound like he's saying: take the evening to decide... ivdsh

Did anyone else hear this?

Sounds like a serious mistake in the editing stage. How didn't anyone noticed this?

It's so sad to know that such a big mistake will be there forever...
I noticed it but I figured I wouldn't spoil it for anyone else, guess it's too late for that, can't unhear it either.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 12:40:17 PM
A Moment Of Betrayal.

Well we all know this one probably :)

Like a better version of a DT12 song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Another_Won on January 29, 2016, 12:41:29 PM
https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks
 (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks)

The song explanations are up!

Wow !!! It also have clearer GNEA map !!
Where?  I'm not seeing it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on January 29, 2016, 12:41:38 PM
The band should read the reviews at Amazon.

They seem either very high or very low. Not surprising in the least.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pdurbin22 on January 29, 2016, 12:42:37 PM
The band should read the reviews at Amazon.

I've been noting those too. It's pretty clear people either love or hate this album, with not much middle ground.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 29, 2016, 12:43:05 PM
Currently at "Brother, Can You Hear Me?"

Wow! This is incredible so far! Following along with the writeups on each track on The Astonishing website, which add considerable extra depth to the story.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 29, 2016, 12:44:30 PM
The band should read the reviews at Amazon.

Why should they?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: vbrodrigues95 on January 29, 2016, 12:45:29 PM
My local record shop had the new album stocked last night. Went out and bought it, but haven't had a chance to listen yet. Going for a run soon, likely going to put it on headphones. Is it good running music?
If you pretend you're Nefaryus and listen to Three Days, then maybe.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: 7enderbender on January 29, 2016, 12:45:33 PM
The band should read the reviews at Amazon.

Yikes. As a guitar player I'm starting to wonder if the good people at Mesa Boogie are starting to regret slapping a JP name tag (first time they ever did an "artist model" endorsement) on what might well be one of the best amps they ever made (I won't get into the technical details).

And while I kept thinking - wow, even harmonicas, whistling or an accordion couldn't make this any worse - on comes bag pipes. Bag pipes!  :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on January 29, 2016, 12:48:54 PM
The band should read the reviews at Amazon.

Yikes. As a guitar player I'm starting to wonder if the good people at Mesa Boogie are starting to regret slapping a JP name tag (first time they ever did an "artist model" endorsement) on what might well be one of the best amps they ever made (I won't get into the technical details).

And while I kept thinking - wow, even harmonicas, whistling or an accordion couldn't make this any worse - on comes bag pipes. Bag pipes!  :rollin

Why would they possibly regret a JP signature model amp after hearing TA? It has some of JP's best guitar work on it ever. Great chord structure, riffs, solos...This album is signature JP stuff.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 12:49:46 PM
:bosk1:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 12:50:10 PM

Why would they possibly regret a JP signature model amp after hearing TA? It has some of JP's best guitar work on it ever. Great chord structure, riffs, solos...This album is signature JP stuff.

Imagine being a TAMA executive and hearing St. Anger.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoadTrain_of Thought on January 29, 2016, 12:51:09 PM
*SPOILERS for the ones who haven't listened to the whole album yet*






Am I the only one who is mildly infuriated that the album doesn't end with "Astonishing", but with "Again"?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JRuless on January 29, 2016, 12:51:58 PM
The band should read the reviews at Amazon.

Yikes. As a guitar player I'm starting to wonder if the good people at Mesa Boogie are starting to regret slapping a JP name tag (first time they ever did an "artist model" endorsement) on what might well be one of the best amps they ever made (I won't get into the technical details).

And while I kept thinking - wow, even harmonicas, whistling or an accordion couldn't make this any worse - on comes bag pipes. Bag pipes!  :rollin

Are you making fun out of John Petrucci on this fanforum? Sorry I don't like your style... at all
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DragonAttack on January 29, 2016, 12:52:12 PM
Trivial, but I encountered a 'hiccup' when transferring the download to disc:  Act 1 would not fit ?!?!?   I checked for errors on my part, compared the times, and then used Excel to total the time.  Well, it is not 78:59, but 79:59.  I had to go back through and remove little bits of silence at the end of various tracks.  Then breathed a sigh of relief.  Wish I was younger, I'd have lit one up for the listen.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shadow2222 on January 29, 2016, 12:52:36 PM
The band should read the reviews at Amazon.

Yikes. As a guitar player I'm starting to wonder if the good people at Mesa Boogie are starting to regret slapping a JP name tag (first time they ever did an "artist model" endorsement) on what might well be one of the best amps they ever made (I won't get into the technical details).

And while I kept thinking - wow, even harmonicas, whistling or an accordion couldn't make this any worse - on comes bag pipes. Bag pipes!  :rollin

I'm pretty sure that Mesa does not regret endorsing one of the world's most respected guitarists.

To your second point, this is actually the most tasteful use of an orchestra and "alternative" instruments that I've ever heard in prog/metal music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: 7enderbender on January 29, 2016, 12:53:39 PM
The band should read the reviews at Amazon.

Yikes. As a guitar player I'm starting to wonder if the good people at Mesa Boogie are starting to regret slapping a JP name tag (first time they ever did an "artist model" endorsement) on what might well be one of the best amps they ever made (I won't get into the technical details).

And while I kept thinking - wow, even harmonicas, whistling or an accordion couldn't make this any worse - on comes bag pipes. Bag pipes!  :rollin

Why would they possibly regret a JP signature model amp after hearing TA? It has some of JP's best guitar work on it ever. Great chord structure, riffs, solos...This album is signature JP stuff.

Just a hunch. This album is going to go down as DT's "The Elder" or "Rock me tonight". And the fact that "Rolling Stone" likes it is more of an indicator since they're almost always wrong about everything.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: 7enderbender on January 29, 2016, 12:55:23 PM

Why would they possibly regret a JP signature model amp after hearing TA? It has some of JP's best guitar work on it ever. Great chord structure, riffs, solos...This album is signature JP stuff.

Imagine being a TAMA executive and hearing St. Anger.


^^^This^^^ - and I actually thought St. Anger was at least a risk well taken.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 29, 2016, 12:57:06 PM
https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks
 (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks)

The song explanations are up!

Wow !!! It also have clearer GNEA map !!
Where?  I'm not seeing it.
(https://www.dreamtheater.net/sites/g/files/g2000005396/f/201601/MAP_1400.jpg)

The map published by F.E STANHOPE & CO
Who are they?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 12:58:03 PM
Begin Again... a sappy little song :lol. Not in a bad way though. In keeping with the album.

The Path That Divides now.....
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: genome on January 29, 2016, 12:58:29 PM
The opening guitar in Heaven's Cove sounds a LOT like the opening guitar in On the Backs of Angels.

It sounds like "Is There Anybody Out There?" from The Wall IMO
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: phospheneSOI on January 29, 2016, 12:58:39 PM
I'm a strong believer that good art divides; stuff that stands the test of time usually causes passion and hatred in equal measure. If I was in Dream Theater I'd actually be much happier with a bunch of 5 and 1 stars rather than a load of 3s or 4s.

Anyway I'm digging this album a lot. It does a lot of things I've wanted DT to do in ages; experiment, broaden their sound, ambitious, proggy.

However it's just too long for me. Whilst it's awesome I can (very) occasionally sit down and take in the whole story, I will be making my own "abridged" version for general listening.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 12:59:16 PM
It's not too late...!!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on January 29, 2016, 01:00:30 PM

Why would they possibly regret a JP signature model amp after hearing TA? It has some of JP's best guitar work on it ever. Great chord structure, riffs, solos...This album is signature JP stuff.

Imagine being a TAMA executive and hearing St. Anger.

 :lol True

Seriously though, whether you like TA or not, JP sounds great on it and it gives no reason for any endorsement company to regret anything  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: N4Player on January 29, 2016, 01:01:17 PM
Having had several listens to this point, this album is very much a Rock Opera and not something I can compare to a 'concept album.' Calling it a concept invokes comparison to SFAM and Operation Mindcrime etc. Do that and this album fails miserably. I love the freshness of style in several places, and I applaud any band that does what it wants, but this is the hardest material to enjoy for me personally. This album sounds like the cast and crew of The Rocky Horror Picture Show and members of Symphony X had an ugly lovechild. There are painfully cheesy sections scattered across what sounds like a longwinded ballad. To care about the story I have to care about the songs, and sadly I can't connect to it. Perhaps it will grow in some sections, but for now "Moment of Betrayal" is the only 'song' I enjoy. Looking forward to the next album so I can put this one behind. I hope I like it more live since I already have tickets, but whatever this is just isn't my thing. It's cool that so many here are enjoying it though. A band like DT can't be summed up in a single album or style really so opinions will always be heavily divided. I joined these forums when Mangini joined the band (I am a longtime fan of his), but the last 2 albums really have me missing the Portnoy era of 2003-2009. There is less of a song focus and more of a technical focus that felt more balanced in the past.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on January 29, 2016, 01:01:52 PM
Love the new forum theme!!!   :o

Another time for my DT tradition: new CD at Best Buy and lunch at Jack In The Box   :metal

The back cover matches this California sky today!

From the samples I've heard, I'm concerned about the number of ballads also, but I've also heard some great heavy parts. 

I had an idea to blend the NOMAC tracks into a full song, maybe loop some of the sounds and add a beat to it.  Don't have the time to do so though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 29, 2016, 01:05:44 PM
FYI, in astonishing website, if you click the character, it will show full body pic of them and explain something about them  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hanz Gruber on January 29, 2016, 01:06:05 PM
I was right. Or actually not: this is even worse than expected. The issue with this "concept" was already clear. and now there is the music to go with it. Yikes.
I never liked Scenes from a Memory because of the ridiculous concept/movie theme, but it had at least a few good songs. This thing however? Somebody please tell Petrucci to get off his high horse. And please send Jordan Rudass packing.
I'll happily be listening to Awake on my way home from work today instead of hitting the record store. This band is done it seems. At least artistically.

They aren;t done nor should they call it a day.  They took a risk and tried something different.  It didn;t work IMO but they can bounce back in 2-3 years and put out a new album that is hopefully more like Awake.  They put out quality music often enough to recover and have a big enough loyal fanbase to do so.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 01:06:30 PM
The Walking Shadow  :xbones  Evil sounding. And James Low voice... :O


My Last Farewell now....
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on January 29, 2016, 01:08:10 PM
I'm going to make my own TA sampler CD of my favorite songs too.  The lead track so far would be TGOM, unless I hear a better one.  Still loving that song though, been in my head all week.

How times have changed when a physical manufactured CD is cheaper than a collection of digital files.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 01:08:15 PM
My Last Farewell - A SHREDDING RUDESS SPOTTED :rollin \m/
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 01:08:49 PM
This album is ridiculous ! :rollin.

Have they been holding back the last few albums or what ?!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jjfumbly on January 29, 2016, 01:14:01 PM
Just finished it for the first time and I love how the record just ends with a fat squealie!  :rollin :metal I was hoping for more of a climax like a battle or something and the ending seemed overly happy. Great album though, loved it. A few moments had me going "hell yeah"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hanz Gruber on January 29, 2016, 01:16:33 PM
Having had several listens to this point, this album is very much a Rock Opera and not something I can compare to a 'concept album.' Calling it a concept invokes comparison to SFAM and Operation Mindcrime etc. Do that and this album fails miserably. I love the freshness of style in several places, and I applaud any band that does what it wants, but this is the hardest material to enjoy for me personally. This album sounds like the cast and crew of The Rocky Horror Picture Show and members of Symphony X had an ugly lovechild. There are painfully cheesy sections scattered across what sounds like a longwinded ballad. To care about the story I have to care about the songs, and sadly I can't connect to it. Perhaps it will grow in some sections, but for now "Moment of Betrayal" is the only 'song' I enjoy. Looking forward to the next album so I can put this one behind. I hope I like it more live since I already have tickets, but whatever this is just isn't my thing. It's cool that so many here are enjoying it though. A band like DT can't be summed up in a single album or style really so opinions will always be heavily divided. I joined these forums when Mangini joined the band (I am a longtime fan of his), but the last 2 albums really have me missing the Portnoy era of 2003-2009. There is less of a song focus and more of a technical focus that felt more balanced in the past.

I agree with much of this.  I think the album will grow on me but I do not like how cheesy the lyrics are.  It comes down to personal preference. 

I would prefer that Dream Theater stops doing concept albums and they go back to what they are good at.  Make another album like Awake and just worry about making great individual songs instead of a concept album or story. 

I have been waiting for years for them to put out another album with 10 or so strong songs in which they don't feel that they have to turn a 6 minute song into a 14 minute song with unnecessary jams in every song.  I love when they go all out at times but not every song needs this.  I know this album didn't have that problem...but having to make songs to fit a long story held the quality of many of the songs back
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Another_Won on January 29, 2016, 01:17:39 PM
https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks
 (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks)

The song explanations are up!

Wow !!! It also have clearer GNEA map !!
Where?  I'm not seeing it.
(https://www.dreamtheater.net/sites/g/files/g2000005396/f/201601/MAP_1400.jpg)

The map published by F.E STANHOPE & CO
Who are they?
Perfect!  Thanks.  Do we have higher res pictures of the characters and places too?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 29, 2016, 01:17:44 PM
Great guitar solo at the end of A New Beginning, starting with some enjoyable effects similar to those found in the solo to Surrender of Reason. Nice simple backing to it as well; it lets the guitar be the star.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on January 29, 2016, 01:17:53 PM
EDIT : Spoke too soon. Nomac eyes still do diddly squat :lol
I KNEW IT!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 01:20:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/zrbawum.png?2)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 29, 2016, 01:23:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/zrbawum.png?2)

Get out :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Anguyen92 on January 29, 2016, 01:23:50 PM
Eight songs in so far.  It's really hard to pick out a stand-alone favorite song above all of the stuff I heard, at this point, but this has been an very enjoyable listen thus far.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 01:25:39 PM
Yeah it's a lot to take in but I was never bored.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 29, 2016, 01:26:03 PM
https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks
 (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks)

The song explanations are up!

Wow !!! It also have clearer GNEA map !!
Where?  I'm not seeing it.
(https://www.dreamtheater.net/sites/g/files/g2000005396/f/201601/MAP_1400.jpg)

The map published by F.E STANHOPE & CO
Who are they?
Perfect!  Thanks.  Do we have higher res pictures of the characters and places too?
No, but we have full body of them along with the explanation about who are they. Just click character in website astonishing  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RuRoRul on January 29, 2016, 01:29:23 PM
I appreciate the band taking big risks and doing something different...I just would rather hear songs that stand on their own that aren't part of a concept.  This is coming from a guy that loved Scenes, Six Degrees, and Savatage albums like Dead Winter Dead and The Wake of Magellan.

This is how I feel as well, and one of the reasons I had some trepidation about this album. SFAM for example, while it has a couple of tracks basically useless as stand alones (Regression, Through My Words) and a couple I'd probably only listen to as part of the full album (One Last Time, Through Her Eyes), it also has songs that are perfectly great to listen to on their own. Strange Deja Vu and Fatal Tragedy at worst have endings that lead into the next song but are still standouts on their own, and Beyond This Life and Home stand up among DT's best songs whether you listen to them alone or in the album. With so many tracks, including such short songs and songs very much there to provide information about the story, I wasn't sure whether there would be many songs that would hold up well on their own. A 2+ hour continuous listen with a story is good too, but I'd love it if the songs worked in both contexts.

Hearing the album, I think my concerns were definitely warranted, but there are definitely some good songs there so it will take a lot more listens to see where the album stands.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Scorpion on January 29, 2016, 01:29:30 PM
I doubt that I've ever heard anything as cheesy as the story behind The Astonishing.

It's pretty good musically though, only a little too ballad-heavy for me. A New Beginning, Three Days, Moment of Betrayal and Our New World are tentative favourites, but I'm sure that will change with subsequent listens.

The story though... not a big fan of it.

THE HEALING POWER OF MUSIC AND LOVE CAN MAKE EVERYTHING ALL RIGHT AGAIN AND NOBODY WILL EVER SUFFER AGAIN, EVER, FOR ETERNITY, YEAH.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 29, 2016, 01:30:25 PM
I doubt that I've ever heard anything as cheesy as the story behind The Astonishing.

It's pretty good musically though, only a little too ballad-heavy for me. A New Beginning, Three Days, Moment of Betrayal and Our New World are tentative favourites, but I'm sure that will change with subsequent listens.

The story though... not a big fan of it.

I'll second that
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RaasMah on January 29, 2016, 01:31:35 PM
My Last Farewell - A SHREDDING RUDESS SPOTTED :rollin \m/

Im glad we saw SOME Rudess shred at some point. I always liked his solos, but I think in this album even their haters will admit they are in good taste, and not too wankery.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Another_Won on January 29, 2016, 01:34:43 PM
https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks
 (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks)

The song explanations are up!

Wow !!! It also have clearer GNEA map !!
Where?  I'm not seeing it.
*snip*
The map published by F.E STANHOPE & CO
Who are they?
Perfect!  Thanks.  Do we have higher res pictures of the characters and places too?
No, but we have full body of them along with the explanation about who are they. Just click character in website astonishing  ;D
Yup.  Those were helpful in understanding the characters and their relationships to others.

I know there must be hi-res pictures of the characters because when they were revealed on their Instagram, they were just a small snippet of the larger one.

Hopefully, they'll show up soon, along with the places - (Although we do have one of Heaven's Cove - didn't know that is what it's called at the time)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 01:36:24 PM
I don't want to sound like a teenager on twitter ...but Our New World is actually perfect :lol

Oh My Gosh.  :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SchecterShredder on January 29, 2016, 01:43:43 PM
I've only listened once so far, but I'm lukewarm on the album. From a 'rock opera' point of view, it's very well arranged and the story explanations by track on the Astonishing website make it easy to follow the story. I just feel as though there aren't many great songs that stick out musically, in my opinion, except for maybe "Moment of Betrayal" and "Three Days".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on January 29, 2016, 01:44:07 PM
I don't want to sound like a teenager on twitter ...but Our New World is actually perfect :lol

Oh My Gosh.  :'( :'( :'( :'(

One of my faves as well.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 29, 2016, 01:45:40 PM
https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks
 (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks)

The song explanations are up!

Wow !!! It also have clearer GNEA map !!
Where?  I'm not seeing it.
*snip*
The map published by F.E STANHOPE & CO
Who are they?
Perfect!  Thanks.  Do we have higher res pictures of the characters and places too?
No, but we have full body of them along with the explanation about who are they. Just click character in website astonishing  ;D
Yup.  Those were helpful in understanding the characters and their relationships to others.

I know there must be hi-res pictures of the characters because when they were revealed on their Instagram, they were just a small snippet of the larger one.

Hopefully, they'll show up soon, along with the places - (Although we do have one of Heaven's Cove - didn't know that is what it's called at the time)
Yes, they have it, but not upload it, or yet
But, of course they give us Hi Res pic of the place, here it is

GNEA
(https://www.dreamtheater.net/sites/g/files/g2000005396/f/201601/GNEA_1400.jpg)

Ravenskill
(https://www.dreamtheater.net/sites/g/files/g2000005396/f/201601/Ravenskill_1400.jpg)

Heavens Cove
(https://www.dreamtheater.net/sites/g/files/g2000005396/f/201601/HeavensCove_1400.jpg)

NOMACS
(https://www.dreamtheater.net/sites/g/files/g2000005396/f/201601/NOMACS_1400.jpg)

Sketch NOMACS
(https://www.dreamtheater.net/sites/g/files/g2000005396/f/201601/Sketches_1400.jpg)

Emblem
(https://www.dreamtheater.net/sites/g/files/g2000005396/f/201601/Emblem_1400.jpg)


Sorry if my post too long, I dont know how to make spoiler  :facepalm: :hefdaddy
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SchecterShredder on January 29, 2016, 01:48:09 PM
I appreciate the band taking big risks and doing something different...I just would rather hear songs that stand on their own that aren't part of a concept.  This is coming from a guy that loved Scenes, Six Degrees, and Savatage albums like Dead Winter Dead and The Wake of Magellan.

This is how I feel as well, and one of the reasons I had some trepidation about this album. SFAM for example, while it has a couple of tracks basically useless as stand alones (Regression, Through My Words) and a couple I'd probably only listen to as part of the full album (One Last Time, Through Her Eyes), it also has songs that are perfectly great to listen to on their own. Strange Deja Vu and Fatal Tragedy at worst have endings that lead into the next song but are still standouts on their own, and Beyond This Life and Home stand up among DT's best songs whether you listen to them alone or in the album. With so many tracks, including such short songs and songs very much there to provide information about the story, I wasn't sure whether there would be many songs that would hold up well on their own. A 2+ hour continuous listen with a story is good too, but I'd love it if the songs worked in both contexts.

Hearing the album, I think my concerns were definitely warranted, but there are definitely some good songs there so it will take a lot more listens to see where the album stands.

I agree. It seems like you need to listen to the whole album in it's entirety, a rather daunting task at a run time of 2+ hours
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: 54_diplomats on January 29, 2016, 01:48:15 PM
I've only listened once so far, but I'm lukewarm on the album. From a 'rock opera' point of view, it's very well arranged and the story explanations by track on the Astonishing website make it easy to follow the story. I just feel as though there aren't many great songs that stick out musically, in my opinion, except for maybe "Moment of Betrayal" and "Three Days".

Agreed. It's definitely enjoyable, but nothing really stands out to me aside from about 3 or 4 tracks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoadTrain_of Thought on January 29, 2016, 01:49:30 PM
lol I was just trying to get that last image myself and I came here to see it. How did you get it ?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on January 29, 2016, 01:49:49 PM
I definitely don't love Our New World as much as a lot of people seem to. I mean, it's a really nice, upbeat song, but I don't find it anything special. I think for me, part of the reason the ending loses steam is that the last few songs are all kind of middle-of-the-road (tonally, not in terms of quality) upbeat songs. It makes the ending just feel really drawn out - as I said in the survey that Implode is running, very Peter Jackson esque!

That said, I don't really get the "too many ballads" complaint that a small number of people are making, but then I can only assume people include upbeat pop rock songs as ballads when they aren't. Apart from the drawn out ending, I think the pacing is actually really good.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Another_Won on January 29, 2016, 01:51:14 PM
Thanks a bunch, pringkaarwanda!  That is awesome.  I know there are others here that appreciate this too.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoadTrain_of Thought on January 29, 2016, 01:54:24 PM
I definitely don't love Our New World as much as a lot of people seem to.

Same. I mean, it is cool but nothing groundbreaking. I don't even think it will get in my top 10 songs from the album. Still, to each their own.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 29, 2016, 01:54:56 PM
Halfway through Act 2 now (just past a major dramatic point). It's occurred to me during Machine Chatter that the NOMAC tracks remind me of the interlude between Panic Attack and Never Enough on Octavarium.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: me7 on January 29, 2016, 01:55:58 PM
Our new World reminds me a lot of Rush, more so than any other single DT song. I'm surprised that nobody made that remark yet.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 01:56:33 PM
Not getting much sleep last night didn't help but I was in bits listening to that song. AND I'M NOT ASHAMED TO ADMIT IT  :sadpanda:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gm5k on January 29, 2016, 01:59:19 PM
Just for fun and apart from the enjoying the album straight through, it's kinda cool to end "Savior In The Square" at around 1:30 and start "Our New World"  ;D  Surprised I didn't notice the similarity until right now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 02:01:09 PM
hey guys what if the astonishising was one cd ?!?!


:vomitard:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gm5k on January 29, 2016, 02:02:20 PM
 ;D  I know it's a theme/motif. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on January 29, 2016, 02:03:51 PM
I have to agree... these songs put the previous album to shame.
Wow, that is saying alot! I love DT 12 probably more than most on this forum.  I have to wait another week to hear TA, my local record store forgot to order it and I requested it a week ago..

I reccommend getting it on HDtracks.com!
Thanks for the heads up..  I don't have a computer at the moment, just a Android phone. I have to wait for the cd next Friday. There are no best buys in my area and I seriously doubt Wal-Mart will have it. My local record store is only open Thursday through Saturday..lame!

Just an FYI.  When the last DT cd came out, our Walmart had copies.  Of course it may depend on what part of the country you are located and they may not have it right away.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: GandL on January 29, 2016, 02:06:18 PM
So far I listened to it 3 times, each time a better experience than the preceding one, and I really enjoyed the first listen. I cannot say yet which one I like most, looks like it's changing after each listening. For me it is a great album that will rank with my top ones.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on January 29, 2016, 02:07:18 PM
Our new World reminds me a lot of Rush, more so than any other single DT song. I'm surprised that nobody made that remark yet.
No way, not as much as The Best of Times or The Looking Glass.

OH AND ALSO, I remember the other thing that bugs me. **SPOILERS** The placement of Machine Chatter is really bizarre. I need to read those detailed explanations on the official website, but it seems really weird how Daryus kills Arhys, then there's a minute of NOMAC noise, and *then* Xander gets angry at Daryus.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on January 29, 2016, 02:07:54 PM
Our new World reminds me a lot of Rush, more so than any other single DT song. I'm surprised that nobody made that remark yet.

Ok, first post...Yes, I agree. It almost "feels"(not sounds) like The Analog kid of the CD. So, my music store here in Cleveland had this in on Wed.  sitting there on the counter...SWEET and I've done nothing but listen over and over and over...This might end up waaaaaay up there on my list of favs, but that won't be decided until every note is covered and it settles through the listening process.

Greetings ALL!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 29, 2016, 02:08:10 PM
lol I was just trying to get that last image myself and I came here to see it. How did you get it ?
All you have to do is playing with page source  :tup ;D


Thanks a bunch, pringkaarwanda!  That is awesome.  I know there are others here that appreciate this too.
You're welcome my brother !!  :tup ;D
I'll post here again if I found something interesting in web page  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoadTrain_of Thought on January 29, 2016, 02:09:39 PM
I tried that way. But I couldn't quite make it :d Thanks man!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 02:10:49 PM
Our new World reminds me a lot of Rush, more so than any other single DT song. I'm surprised that nobody made that remark yet.
No way, not as much as The Best of Times or The Looking Glass.

OH AND ALSO, I remember the other thing that bugs me. **SPOILERS** The placement of Machine Chatter is really bizarre. I need to read those detailed explanations on the official website, but it seems really weird how Daryus kills Arhys, then there's a minute of NOMAC noise, and *then* Xander gets angry at Daryus.

Since the album is not quite gapless - you could almost re-sequence the album in a playlist to your liking :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on January 29, 2016, 02:11:51 PM
Since the album is not quite gapless - you could almost re-sequence the album in a playlist to your liking :)
Oh for sure - I also considered whether I should just scrap the title track and have it as a separate song. But I do prefer to listen to albums as the artist intends them, so I don't think I will.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: T-ski on January 29, 2016, 02:11:55 PM
Systematic Chaos now has a friend on my "rarely listened to DT albums".

I hoped it wasn't going to be as bad as I thought, but no.  What a disappointment.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 29, 2016, 02:12:59 PM
I cannot pick a single favourite individual track. There are so many. I've lost track of how many times I've got goosebumps over the last 2 hours or so. Dream Theater have done it again.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shadow2222 on January 29, 2016, 02:16:16 PM
I cannot pick a single favourite individual track. There are so many. I've lost track of how many times I've got goosebumps over the last 2 hours or so. Dream Theater have done it again.

It is really tough to choose. Yeah, the goosebumps were aplenty on my first 2-3 listens.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on January 29, 2016, 02:16:23 PM
One thing I'm really digging about the album is the effort they put into making the music fit the narrative. Fantastic example being the start of A Tempting Offer: it starts with a sweet, innocent piano melody to signify X walking along unknowingly, and then kicks into the same motif in a really dark riff to signify Daryus following behind. Really nicely done, and there are a bunch of moments like that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 02:16:59 PM
I cannot pick a single favourite individual track. There are so many. I've lost track of how many times I've got goosebumps over the last 2 hours or so. Dream Theater have done it again.

I was in floods for moments of it. How did they manage this when DT12 was not that great ?

If anything this album should have been Dream Theater.

So happy with the production as well. Another dry , hot album would have ruined it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shadow2222 on January 29, 2016, 02:17:46 PM
One thing I'm really digging about the album is the effort they put into making the music fit the narrative. Fantastic example being the start of A Tempting Offer: it starts with a sweet, innocent piano melody to signify X walking along unknowingly, and then kicks into the same motif in a really dark riff to signify Daryus following behind. Really nicely done, and there are a bunch of moments like that.

That might be my favorite thing about it. I know I keep seeing it get thrown around as both a positive and negative criticism, but I love how it transpires just like a musical.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Viking of the Sagas on January 29, 2016, 02:17:56 PM
Moment of Betrayal has really grown on me. I love it.

Man, too many great tracks to name them all.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 02:18:42 PM
Also - albums that you love all the way through instantly - you normally get bored of them.

I can see The Astonishing having longevity not only due to it's length but also certain songs will take time to reveal themselves.

My dad told me a long time ago " the songs you love straight away are the songs you get sick of first. "

Which was certainly true in the past...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 02:20:07 PM
One thing I'm really digging about the album is the effort they put into making the music fit the narrative. Fantastic example being the start of A Tempting Offer: it starts with a sweet, innocent piano melody to signify X walking along unknowingly, and then kicks into the same motif in a really dark riff to signify Daryus following behind. Really nicely done, and there are a bunch of moments like that.

That might be my favorite thing about it. I know I keep seeing it get thrown around as both a positive and negative criticism, but I love how it transpires just like a musical.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest that it's not a traditional "album" per se.

I don't know how well received it will be with Joe Public - but i hope it does well for the band. I'd hate for it to die on it's arse sales wise.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on January 29, 2016, 02:21:10 PM
Trivial, but I encountered a 'hiccup' when transferring the download to disc:  Act 1 would not fit ?!?!?   I checked for errors on my part, compared the times, and then used Excel to total the time.  Well, it is not 78:59, but 79:59.  I had to go back through and remove little bits of silence at the end of various tracks.  Then breathed a sigh of relief.  Wish I was younger, I'd have lit one up for the listen.

  :lol  If I was in Colorado I probably would light one up and legally.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on January 29, 2016, 02:22:02 PM
I'm digging that I'm finally putting  Dystopian Overture together with each track...It took a couple of spins.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shadow2222 on January 29, 2016, 02:22:09 PM
One thing I'm really digging about the album is the effort they put into making the music fit the narrative. Fantastic example being the start of A Tempting Offer: it starts with a sweet, innocent piano melody to signify X walking along unknowingly, and then kicks into the same motif in a really dark riff to signify Daryus following behind. Really nicely done, and there are a bunch of moments like that.

That might be my favorite thing about it. I know I keep seeing it get thrown around as both a positive and negative criticism, but I love how it transpires just like a musical.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest that it's not a traditional "album" per se.

I don't know how well received it will be with Joe Public - but i hope it does well for the band. I'd hate for it to die on it's arse sales wise.

That's where I stand. I mean, a band like DT doesn't really rely on album sales anyways, so it isn't like I expect the world to come crashing down and them cancel the tour, but I won't lie when I say that I'm glad that the concerts have been on sale for quite awhile before people heard the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: haceeb on January 29, 2016, 02:23:24 PM
Whoa! I'm Astonished. Thank you masters for this proggy cinematic experience.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BFRedrocks on January 29, 2016, 02:23:27 PM
Getting through it for the first time...now on Hymn of a Thousand Voices and I have to say that I like it.  I'm definitely more into the metal'er side of music, but DT did such a good job "preparing" me for what was to come that I wasn't expecting ToT.  There are some songs that are just okay, but I haven't really found one I absolutely don't like.  Great riffs, good and appropriate solos (yeah, too bad the fade out on JP's solo in Act 1), and I love how everything just fits in the context of the story.  One listen and I'm liking it, so I'm sure it will grow on me even more with more listens.

I'm really excited to hear Our New World for the first time as a lot of folks have already commented what a great song that one is!

EDIT:  Our New World!!!!!   :metal :metal :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hanz Gruber on January 29, 2016, 02:25:17 PM
Our new World reminds me a lot of Rush, more so than any other single DT song. I'm surprised that nobody made that remark yet.
No way, not as much as The Best of Times or The Looking Glass.


I was going to say "Don't Look Past Me" and"The Looking Glass"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on January 29, 2016, 02:25:46 PM
Perfect!  Thanks.  Do we have higher res pictures of the characters and places too?

You can find them on the artist's site here:https://www.artstation.com/artwork/BvaXz (https://www.artstation.com/artwork/BvaXz)
And the hi-res version of the cover check here: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/K13BR (https://www.artstation.com/artwork/K13BR)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 29, 2016, 02:27:25 PM
Just finished my first listen to The Astonishing. I really look forward to getting to know the album better in the coming weeks and months, particularly picking out where musical themes reoccur. Blown away by it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: kiwiclapton on January 29, 2016, 02:27:50 PM
Well the new record has been streaming on my devices for the past 24 hours.

Im blown away - what a record .

A modern Classic. Once again - its great to be there at the start of a record that history will judge as a monument to the group .
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: me7 on January 29, 2016, 02:28:45 PM
Our new World reminds me a lot of Rush, more so than any other single DT song. I'm surprised that nobody made that remark yet.
No way, not as much as The Best of Times or The Looking Glass.
:facepalm: My brain failed to dig up Looking Glass as I was recalling past Rush similarities. I guess this shows how little I have listened to DT12 over the past two years.
OK, this makes it the second most Rush-like song in my book. The Best of Times never reminded me of Rush ???
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 02:29:35 PM
One thing I'm really digging about the album is the effort they put into making the music fit the narrative. Fantastic example being the start of A Tempting Offer: it starts with a sweet, innocent piano melody to signify X walking along unknowingly, and then kicks into the same motif in a really dark riff to signify Daryus following behind. Really nicely done, and there are a bunch of moments like that.

That might be my favorite thing about it. I know I keep seeing it get thrown around as both a positive and negative criticism, but I love how it transpires just like a musical.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest that it's not a traditional "album" per se.

I don't know how well received it will be with Joe Public - but i hope it does well for the band. I'd hate for it to die on it's arse sales wise.

That's where I stand. I mean, a band like DT doesn't really rely on album sales anyways, so it isn't like I expect the world to come crashing down and them cancel the tour, but I won't lie when I say that I'm glad that the concerts have been on sale for quite awhile before people heard the album.

A live DVD / BR of a special one-off show with full orchestra and choir ( a la Breaking The Fourth Wall ) would help I think.

They'd only need to do it for one night so shouldn't cost as much as having 100 extra people for an entire tour.



I mean - this HAS to be a DVD doesn't it ???

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 02:35:18 PM


Thoughts, everyone ?

1. Best album of the Mangini era.

2. Best album of the Road Runner era.

3. Both ?

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on January 29, 2016, 02:37:05 PM


Thoughts, everyone ?

1. Best album of the Mangini era.

2. Best album of the Road Runner era.

3. Both ?

4. Best album of their career?  :corn
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on January 29, 2016, 02:37:21 PM


Thoughts, everyone ?

1. Best album of the Mangini era.

2. Best album of the Road Runner era.

3. Both ?

BOTH!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peter Griffin on January 29, 2016, 02:39:59 PM
this is astonishing.

 :hefdaddy
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 02:40:00 PM

4. Best album of their career?  :corn

NO WAY MAN SYSTEMATIC CHAOS HAD GROTESQUE CREATURES BATTLE
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Yesmaestro on January 29, 2016, 02:42:07 PM
Thank god I can stream The Astonishing because Road Runner STILL hasn't sent me a download link for the files yet. Unbelievable.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on January 29, 2016, 02:44:47 PM
I think it's their best album since Systematic Chaos, by a considerable margin. I'm not yet sure where it ranks, but it's top 4.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 02:48:05 PM
I think it's their best album since Systematic Chaos, by a considerable margin. I'm not yet sure where it ranks, but it's top 4.

It's definitely in the top 5 of my favourite 8 albums :neverusethis:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on January 29, 2016, 02:49:58 PM


Thoughts, everyone ?

1. Best album of the Mangini era.

2. Best album of the Road Runner era.

3. Both ?

4. Best album of their career?  :corn

Yes. I'm not so sure I'll be able to take anything else they've written seriously again
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 29, 2016, 02:52:44 PM
Perfect!  Thanks.  Do we have higher res pictures of the characters and places too?

You can find them on the artist's site here:https://www.artstation.com/artwork/BvaXz (https://www.artstation.com/artwork/BvaXz)
And the hi-res version of the cover check here: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/K13BR (https://www.artstation.com/artwork/K13BR)
Whoaa !!! Thanks a lot brother !!!  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enalya on January 29, 2016, 02:52:54 PM
Listening to it right now for the first time and I'm just blown away.. Damn what a brilliance going on. I was so pleasantly surprised by the 'jazzy' prog feel in some Nafaryus parts - some parts remind me of Haken, which is a great thing.
And James' performance is just outstanding :hefdaddy Okay a month 'till the concert /time ticking
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dellers on January 29, 2016, 02:54:44 PM
I'm only about halfway through disc one. Already liking it more than the last album, which wasn't really my cup of tea. Not a single moment I haven't like so far!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 29, 2016, 02:56:42 PM
This is one of DT's most consistently good releases. It's ridiculous how everything feels in place.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on January 29, 2016, 02:59:31 PM
This is one of DT's most consistently good releases. It's ridiculous how everything feels in place.

THIS^^^^
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DT_12_Octavarium on January 29, 2016, 02:59:52 PM
Not digging this yet. Where's the metal? I wasn't expecting a whole album full of slow to mid tempo ballads
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 03:00:24 PM
This is one of DT's most consistently good releases. It's ridiculous how everything feels in place.

Well the story was written over a couple of years then John and Jordan wrote music to match the story so it should do :)


* One slight caveat with the album. A few too many songs end on the "slow down and crescendo". But it's a minor niggle.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 03:01:03 PM
Not digging this yet. Where's the metal? I wasn't expecting a whole album full of slow to mid tempo ballads

They have 12 other albums for you to enjoy.

#HopeThisHelps !
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enalya on January 29, 2016, 03:01:58 PM
Btw, 'Begin Again', big Christmas vibe at the end lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 29, 2016, 03:02:48 PM
Btw, 'Begin Again', big Christmas vibe at the end lol

That's the part a friend and me like to call 'the Disney theme'. It's amazing, and it puts a big big smile on my face.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoadTrain_of Thought on January 29, 2016, 03:03:51 PM
Btw, 'Begin Again', big Christmas vibe at the end lol

So true!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on January 29, 2016, 03:04:16 PM


Thoughts, everyone ?

1. Best album of the Mangini era.

2. Best album of the Road Runner era.

3. Both ?
Neither. For me this doesn't stack up to my top tier of DT albums (Six Degrees, I&W and ADTOE). Bit hard to tell at this stage, but I can see if settling in my second tier, along with Awake, FII and Black Clouds.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Scorpion on January 29, 2016, 03:04:50 PM
The moral of the story: if Faythe hadn't had her headphones in, then Nafaryus would still be a dickhole of a leader.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enalya on January 29, 2016, 03:05:00 PM
Btw, 'Begin Again', big Christmas vibe at the end lol

That's the part a friend and me like to call 'the Disney theme'. It's amazing, and it puts a big big smile on my face.

That's funny, since I thought exactly that in Act I during 'The Answer'. Love it tho.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 29, 2016, 03:05:36 PM
I think we can agree that there's lot of Disney in here, and makes sense given JP just told in his reddit answers that he's a sucker for Disney movies.  :D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on January 29, 2016, 03:06:36 PM
I'm probably more of a metalhead than...3/4 of the users here, and I don't really understand the "TA has no metal!" outcry (from the few with that viewpoint). JP has so many huge riffs, and MM's drums make much more of a metallic impact than they do on the previous two releases. Almost every song hits on metallic territory at some point, and it's always memorable when it goes there. I'll take that all day in comparison to the hit-or-miss riffing and oft-directionless soloing of the post-MP era.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 29, 2016, 03:07:48 PM
For any dystopian-based good ole fashioned riffage, you can check out Megadeth's 'Dystopia' album, just released as well.

 :millahhhh
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on January 29, 2016, 03:08:55 PM
A neat little thing I thought was cool is how Daryus is envious of Nafaryus' better relationship with Faythe.

If you listen to the Nafaryus song, he doesn't even refer to Daryus by name!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 03:09:00 PM
Mustaine - now there's someone who *IS* smothered in FX because his voice is shit...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on January 29, 2016, 03:09:25 PM
Btw, 'Begin Again', big Christmas vibe at the end lol

Like "Do they know it's Christmas?" From Band Aid.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on January 29, 2016, 03:11:19 PM
I think we can agree that there's lot of Disney in here, and makes sense given JP just told in his reddit answers that he's a sucker for Disney movies.  :D
Yeah but the most Disney song is definitely The Answer.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Onno on January 29, 2016, 03:11:21 PM


Thoughts, everyone ?

1. Best album of the Mangini era.

2. Best album of the Road Runner era.

3. Both ?

Probably both, yes.



4. Best album of their career?  :corn

NO WAY MAN SYSTEMATIC CHAOS HAD GROTESQUE CREATURES BATTLE

 :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TioJorge on January 29, 2016, 03:15:26 PM
I'm probably more of a metalhead than...3/4 of the users here, and I don't really understand the "TA has no metal!" outcry (from the few with that viewpoint). JP has so many huge riffs, and MM's drums make much more of a metallic impact than they do on the previous two releases. Almost every song hits on metallic territory at some point, and it's always memorable when it goes there. I'll take that all day in comparison to the hit-or-miss riffing and oft-directionless soloing of the post-MP era.

I mean, there's metal sprinkled here and there but for the most part it's almost entirely absent. It's very orchestra based and light; you can have huge riffs and metal-oriented drums and still not be metal. I don't see the 'little-to-no-metal' thing as bad though. They've more than established themselves as being able to do both straight up metal along with prog-metal so I'm absolutely all for this kind of music. I don't think there is zero metal but I can't see how anyone would say it's not extremely light on metal.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 03:15:41 PM
I *REALLY* like the "West Side Story" section of A New Beginning...  :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enalya on January 29, 2016, 03:18:05 PM
I mean, there's metal sprinkled here and there but for the most part it's almost entirely absent. It's very orchestra based and light; you can have huge riffs and metal-oriented drums and still not be metal. I don't see the 'little-to-no-metal' thing as bad though. They've more than established themselves as being able to do both straight up metal along with prog-metal so I'm absolutely all for this kind of music. I don't think there is zero metal but I can't see how anyone would say it's not extremely light on metal.

I agree. I also think it's okay and fitting for this album. But hey, more chance for the next album to be heavy all over :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on January 29, 2016, 03:19:02 PM
I'm probably more of a metalhead than...3/4 of the users here, and I don't really understand the "TA has no metal!" outcry (from the few with that viewpoint). JP has so many huge riffs, and MM's drums make much more of a metallic impact than they do on the previous two releases. Almost every song hits on metallic territory at some point, and it's always memorable when it goes there. I'll take that all day in comparison to the hit-or-miss riffing and oft-directionless soloing of the post-MP era.

I mean, there's metal sprinkled here and there but for the most part it's almost entirely absent. It's very orchestra based and light; you can have huge riffs and metal-oriented drums and still not be metal. I don't see the 'little-to-no-metal' thing as bad though. They've more than established themselves as being able to do both straight up metal along with prog-metal so I'm absolutely all for this kind of music. I don't think there is zero metal but I can't see how anyone would say it's not extremely light on metal.
I really don't agree that the metal is absent... at all. I'm completely with Frenemies on this one. To me there's at least as much "metal" as there is "ballad", yet a small number of people have been bemoaning there being too little of the former and too much of the latter. I don't get it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 29, 2016, 03:21:28 PM
29th January, 2016. The day our forum's namesake band releases brand new music. A special day, that's for sure! These days don't come round very often, so it's worth savouring.

If you're planning an evening listen to the new album over in the Americas, I hope you all enjoy it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Nomaniac on January 29, 2016, 03:22:03 PM
Hey guys, long time since posting here . . . had to come back to see what y'all were saying about The Astonishing :biggrin:

I've listened to it twice already. It took some time to adjust to DT's new stylistic choice, but the more I listen to it the better it gets! I went from "What is this" to "hmm. interesting" to "OMG I'm gonna listen to this over and over and over again!!!" :lol

Any of you guys have a similar experience?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on January 29, 2016, 03:22:15 PM

4. Best album of their career?  :corn

NO WAY MAN SYSTEMATIC CHAOS HAD GROTESQUE CREATURES BATTLE

When I first heard that song I thought of the LOTR -  Two Towers
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: escruting on January 29, 2016, 03:23:16 PM
The drums that go with JP's solo in the ending of "A New Beginning" could be a bit more varied, and when i say a bit i mean A LOT. They drums are so simple on that part, good drumming on that solo would elevate the song to the next level.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 29, 2016, 03:25:08 PM
Well it's been fun guys, now everything is out in the open, everything is unlocked, we've heard the album, we've got a story to analyse, been a great few months here on DTF, I'm not leaving but thanks guys!!  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 03:25:12 PM
The drums that go with JP's solo in the ending of "A New Beginning" could be a bit more varied, and when i say a bit i mean A LOT. They drums are so simple on that part, good drumming on that solo would elevate the song to the next level.

 :omg: Are you joking ? They work BECAUSE they're so simple. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TJPNET on January 29, 2016, 03:27:45 PM
The drums that go with JP's solo in the ending of "A New Beginning" could be a bit more varied, and when i say a bit i mean A LOT. They drums are so simple on that part, good drumming on that solo would elevate the song to the next level.

 :omg: Are you joking ? They work BECAUSE they're so simple. :lol

I agree. I know the solo is incredible but the simple drum beat driving that section was my favorite part.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: 54_diplomats on January 29, 2016, 03:28:13 PM
The drums that go with JP's solo in the ending of "A New Beginning" could be a bit more varied, and when i say a bit i mean A LOT. They drums are so simple on that part, good drumming on that solo would elevate the song to the next level.

 :omg: Are you joking ? They work BECAUSE they're so simple. :lol

Yeah definitely agree with you here. The simplicity really stuck out and I thought it was very well done.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: matthewmatt on January 29, 2016, 03:28:54 PM
I have already written this elsewhere, but my current first thoughts (yeah, late to the party, but still):

So, me and my wife we finished it. It was pretty exhausting. Some notes:

- The story's okay. Nothing exceptional and you definitely don't have to worry about spoilers or whatever, but it didn't offend me the slightest (that was my main concern beforehand)

- For a band lke Dream Theater (whatever that might mean to you), releasing an album like this is a ballsy move.

- There might be a tad too much ballads (especially in the first act), but I think repeated listens will help.

- I now definitely want to name my firstborn "Jordan".

- The Andrew L. Webber - especially Jesus Christ Superstar - influence is very strong, especially on tracks like Lord Nafaryus or Three Days.

- You can dislike the album (and I can imagine many people who will), but that's your (or my) problem, not the album's - the effort, the energy and the craft put into this monster is undeniable. I would have nothing but respect for the guys even if I didn't beforehand.

- I will need about twenty more listens to even make an opinion - if I said about any album it's a lot to take in at once, I really didn't know what I was talking about. This is just... massive. Like, I tried to concentrate on in, read the lyrics and glide through the accompanying materials... and I have a solid headache, even if the story's not that complex (as I've already written above)

- James overdid himself, true, but I really don't know how does he want to sing this on the whole tour. I think he will be dead by the seventh date, and that's not a put down - most singers would be.

- I don't know what you people are smoking, Mike was totally cool (as usual), in fact, much more decent than on any of the previous two albums, IMHO.

- However, JMyung disappeared somewhere.

- Now, when I've already had the "experience", I can finally listen to the album on repeat and dissect it some more and I'm really looking forward to it. Maybe not tomorrow, though.

- And yes, it's a musical. Yet, it's very DT. I couldn't image how that would be even possible, but it is.

- Also, if anyone tried out the album based on the two "singles", he's in for a bitter disappointment. Both songs sound great in the context of the album, however.

Highlights after the 1st listen:

Dystopian Overture, Lord Nafarius, Act of Faythe (I think), Three Days, Brother Can You Hear Me, A New Beginning, 2285 Entr'acte, Moment of Betrayal, The Path That Divides and the title track.


Also - this is anything but your standard DT. Whether it's good or bad, I don't know yet, but whatever aspect of the band you like, there's nothing really that similar, I give them that. In fact, I believe this is as far from typical DT as possible for it to be still considered "their" album.

P.S. - excuse any typos or whatever, please, I'm a regular zombie right now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Podaar on January 29, 2016, 03:30:15 PM
The moral of the story: if Faythe hadn't had her headphones in, then Nafaryus would still be a dickhole of a leader.

I love you so much right now, Scorp!  :rollin

Finished my first complete run through...albeit while working. I'm really looking forward to an uninterupted spin tonight!

What a fun experience.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: escruting on January 29, 2016, 03:30:36 PM
The drums that go with JP's solo in the ending of "A New Beginning" could be a bit more varied, and when i say a bit i mean A LOT. They drums are so simple on that part, good drumming on that solo would elevate the song to the next level.

 :omg: Are you joking ? They work BECAUSE they're so simple. :lol

Yeah definitely agree with you here. The simplicity really stuck out and I thought it was very well done.
I agree that it works, but i do miss a bit more variety, not necessarily meaning more complexity. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 29, 2016, 03:32:42 PM
Agree with all the above. There's plenty of other passages for MM to show off (to great effect). His simplicity there is just perfect for that passage.

JR's comparative restraint also makes for a refreshing change. It doesn't feel like he overwhelms you with notes, playing million-note flourishes every couple of bars.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 03:34:02 PM
2nd complete listen through and more songs are starting to stand out now :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: escruting on January 29, 2016, 03:34:19 PM
The drums that go with JP's solo in the ending of "A New Beginning" could be a bit more varied, and when i say a bit i mean A LOT. They drums are so simple on that part, good drumming on that solo would elevate the song to the next level.

 :omg: Are you joking ? They work BECAUSE they're so simple. :lol

Yeah definitely agree with you here. The simplicity really stuck out and I thought it was very well done.
I agree that it works, but i do miss a bit more variety, not necessarily meaning more complexity. Just one more beat (or something like that, i'm not a drummer) every time X part is repeated 3 times in a row exactly the same, for example. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on January 29, 2016, 03:36:42 PM
I still do not have the cd, but should by tomorrow.  Seems like a love it or hate it crowd.  Will be interesting how the 'old farts' (myself included) will respond.  Hef, lone star, etc. :laugh:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 29, 2016, 03:37:58 PM
So last night I listened to Act one (around 1-2 am) now I'm listening to Act two (this is the fourth playthrough) on my stereo full fucking volume and the stand out tracks REALLY BLOW ME AWAY!!!  :metal  :metal  :metal

I haven't enjoyed a modern DT album this much in a long time, still not a fan of the ballads though..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 03:38:22 PM
If all you want is BALLS and SHREDDING and BLASTBEATS you will be left wanting.

If you're after actual songs and melody and music and emotions by the bucketload - welcome aboard ! :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: matthewmatt on January 29, 2016, 03:40:14 PM
If all you want is BALLS and SHREDDING and BLASTBEATS you will be left wanting.

If you're after actual songs and melody and music and emotions by the bucketload - welcome aboard ! :)

What if I want both?  :P

Nah, kidding, I enjoyed it all the same. There could be more heavier parts, at least on the first CD, though...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: amatteroflight on January 29, 2016, 03:41:25 PM
It is certainly different to most of their previous work. I am only listening the second time around now.

However, I like it. It's far simpler sounding at this point than the chordgasmic DT compositions of the past.

Good on them for making this album. They could. We can whine and complain about this and that and put our "musician expert" hats on, but at the end of the day, Dream Theater is Dream Theater and they write and record what they want.

So thank you John, John, James, Jordan and Mike for this astonishing musical masterpiece. Yet again!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 29, 2016, 03:42:12 PM
If all you want is BALLS and SHREDDING and BLASTBEATS you will be left wanting.

If you're after actual songs and melody and music and emotions by the bucketload - welcome aboard ! :)
Exactly why I LOVE this album so much.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on January 29, 2016, 03:42:27 PM
The drums that go with JP's solo in the ending of "A New Beginning" could be a bit more varied, and when i say a bit i mean A LOT. They drums are so simple on that part, good drumming on that solo would elevate the song to the next level.

 :omg: Are you joking ? They work BECAUSE they're so simple. :lol

Couldn't agree more with this!! Also, being a bass player. Thank goodness JMX didn't go crazy here! The constant groove that they carve out makes the guitar solo and jazzy chords work perfectly...IMO! I wanted 10 more minutes of it though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: T-ski on January 29, 2016, 03:43:10 PM
If all you want is BALLS and SHREDDING and BLASTBEATS you will be left wanting.

If you're after actual songs and melody and music and emotions by the bucketload - welcome aboard ! :)

there aren't songs on this album though, they are more like passages from one to another.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Scorpion on January 29, 2016, 03:44:35 PM
Ok, everyone is welcome to their opinion but to actually say that there are no songs on TA is pretty ridiculous.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 29, 2016, 03:44:41 PM
The drums that go with JP's solo in the ending of "A New Beginning" could be a bit more varied, and when i say a bit i mean A LOT. They drums are so simple on that part, good drumming on that solo would elevate the song to the next level.

 :omg: Are you joking ? They work BECAUSE they're so simple. :lol

Couldn't agree more with this!! Also, being a bass player. Thank goodness JMX didn't go crazy here! The constant groove that they carve out makes the guitar solo and jazzy chords work perfectly...IMO! I wanted 10 more minutes of it though.
Yep. I play drums/percussion, and I wouldn't change a single thing Mangini does in that section. He has lots of other places to do more detailed things.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jayvee3 on January 29, 2016, 03:46:00 PM
Story question/critisism:

Okey, correct me if Im wrong.
So, Daryus kidnapped Xander and threatened to kill him if Arhys didn`t bring him Gabriel. Daryus kills Arhys and almost kills his sister.

In "Astonishing", Arabelle sings:
" My prince, my son
You got lost along the way
In light of this new burden that you face
you are forgiven on this day"

He got off quite easily, dont ya think?  :lol

On the song description page, there is more detail in the story that isn't evident just by the songs or lyrics alone. Yes, while he is forgiven at the end by all, Daryus doesn't exactly get off scott free either. In case some missed it, this is copied and pasted from the description, and adds way more bite to the story:

'While covering X’s ears, Gabriel unleashes a blood curdling scream straight from the darkest depths of the abyss at a level unsustainable to the human ear. Faythe is unaffected due to the protection of her earphones but Daryus is not so lucky. The scream shatters the prince’s eardrums causing irreversible nerve damage and rendering him hearing-less. He is now doomed to live inside of his own soundless prison with the rest of his lifetime left to lament in a barren wasteland of silence over his despicable actions.'
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 29, 2016, 03:47:31 PM
Loosing Faythe guitar solo? Or interlude part reminds me of Surrounded!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on January 29, 2016, 03:49:42 PM
The drums that go with JP's solo in the ending of "A New Beginning" could be a bit more varied, and when i say a bit i mean A LOT. They drums are so simple on that part, good drumming on that solo would elevate the song to the next level.

 :omg: Are you joking ? They work BECAUSE they're so simple. :lol

Couldn't agree more with this!! Also, being a bass player. Thank goodness JMX didn't go crazy here! The constant groove that they carve out makes the guitar solo and jazzy chords work perfectly...IMO! I wanted 10 more minutes of it though.
Yep. I play drums/percussion, and I wouldn't change a single thing Mangini does in that section. He has lots of other places to do more detailed things.

Exactly...I'm glad they were disciplined here.There are many other places for 'flash', especially earlier in the same song! It's such a great piece!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TioJorge on January 29, 2016, 03:49:52 PM
Ok, everyone is welcome to their opinion but to actually say that there are no songs on TA is pretty ridiculous.

MY TA CDS ARE BLANK!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 03:50:12 PM
Ok, everyone is welcome to their opinion but to actually say that there are no songs on TA is pretty ridiculous.

MY TA CDS ARE BLANK!

OMG PULL ME UNDER II THE PULL ME UNDERING !!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MikeDavis67 on January 29, 2016, 03:53:11 PM
The band should read the reviews at Amazon.

Yikes. As a guitar player I'm starting to wonder if the good people at Mesa Boogie are starting to regret slapping a JP name tag (first time they ever did an "artist model" endorsement) on what might well be one of the best amps they ever made (I won't get into the technical details).

And while I kept thinking - wow, even harmonicas, whistling or an accordion couldn't make this any worse - on comes bag pipes. Bag pipes!  :rollin

Why would they possibly regret a JP signature model amp after hearing TA? It has some of JP's best guitar work on it ever. Great chord structure, riffs, solos...This album is signature JP stuff.
Agree with you 110%.  Not suer why they wouldnt love having the JP Signature Mesa.... 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: craig1928 on January 29, 2016, 03:55:00 PM
what's the most 'most sing-a-longable' song in your opinion?

Act of faythe for me, can't stop  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 29, 2016, 03:55:02 PM
::) Classic case of " I don't like this ergo nobody else does either "
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on January 29, 2016, 03:55:31 PM
If all you want is BALLS and SHREDDING and BLASTBEATS you will be left wanting.

If you're after actual songs and melody and music and emotions by the bucketload - welcome aboard ! :)

Except TA has the second-most blastbeats ever on a DT album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JRuless on January 29, 2016, 03:58:08 PM
James' C5 in Ravenskill gives me chills...'passing second' awesome!

BTW: Noxon and Bosk: now everything you both said falls in place...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MikeDavis67 on January 29, 2016, 04:00:19 PM
what's the most 'most sing-a-longable' song in your opinion?

Act of faythe for me, can't stop  :hefdaddy

Our new world...  hands down
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DragonAttack on January 29, 2016, 04:08:23 PM
mathewmatt summed it up about as well as I could.

Note....anyone notice 'Tempus Fugit' at the beginning of 'A Life Left Behind'? 
(if it's been mentioned, my apologies)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on January 29, 2016, 04:14:41 PM
mathewmatt summed it up about as well as I could.

Note....anyone notice 'Tempus Fugit' at the beginning of 'A Life Left Behind'? 
(if it's been mentioned, my apologies)

Tempus Fugit? I hear it now, interesting, but I thought more of The Dregs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on January 29, 2016, 04:25:23 PM
mathewmatt summed it up about as well as I could.

Note....anyone notice 'Tempus Fugit' at the beginning of 'A Life Left Behind'? 
(if it's been mentioned, my apologies)

Tempus Fugit? I hear it now, interesting, but I thought more of The Dregs.

I'm sorry, I forgot the kink. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD9j0VfX7QU
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on January 29, 2016, 04:29:32 PM
Kink.

Giggity.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MasterLomaxus on January 29, 2016, 04:31:01 PM
I don't know if this is off topic, but does anyone think Gabriel kind  of resembles Aquiles Priester? 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on January 29, 2016, 04:32:17 PM
Kink.

Giggity.

That was purely accidental..... ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hanz Gruber on January 29, 2016, 04:54:35 PM
If all you want is BALLS and SHREDDING and BLASTBEATS you will be left wanting.

If you're after actual songs and melody and music and emotions by the bucketload - welcome aboard ! :)

I like Dream Theater songs with melody.  Many on this album didn't quite reach songs like "Solitary Shell, Lifting Shadows, Space Dye Vest, or even Hollow Years territory.  I love a good Dream Theater ballad or slow song.  Wait For Sleep is amazing and is pure poetry in music form,  I also really like recent efforts like The Bigger Picture and Beneath the Surface.

These songs aren't as catchy and don;t stand nearly as well on their own IMO. I will give it a 2nd and 3rd listen and I expect to like it better...I just hope that I like it a lot better than I did on the 1st listen.

Still has some solid stuff on the album but I am underwhelmed.  I appreciate that they tried to do something risky though and I can almost guarantee that I will love what they put out next
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: EraVulgaris on January 29, 2016, 04:55:11 PM
A few weeks ago I made a post about me being unsure whether I should get tickets for one of the Dream Theater "The Astonishing" concerts nearby. Having listened to the album a few times now, I'm glad I waited.

The thing is: I really appreciate the fact that Dream Theater tried to do something radically different. But this album just isn't working for me. At all. My biggest problem is that I don't listen to Dream Theater for lyrics and this album is really heavy on story. Which is fine, since it's supposed to be a rock opera, and hey, SFAM was a concept album, too. But the difference is that with SFAM, I could ignore the lyrical content while still enjoying the music itself. "The Astonishing" feels like they put lyrics first and wrote the music later - which is the exact opposite of how they usually write their stuff if I remember correctly. And I feel like that really shines through, especially during the first act which feels like half of the stuff is story with some pretty piano sounds and orchestration in the back.

I'm glad many of you like it, but it's just not for me. There are some moments on this album that I really like (and I love the fact that there is a awesome guitar solo over a super simple 4/4 drum beat at the end of "A New Beginning"), but I feel like if you don't care about the story, this album really drags on and doesn't really have enough bright spots musically to keep my interested. I'm also a little sad that it seems like Mangini and Myung didn't have too much input.

So yeah, thats just my short review. As I said, there are some songs that are really neat ("Three Days" is pretty cool for example) and I'm sure I will be listening to the album a few more times over the weeks, but overall, so far, I'm really disappointed.


Edit: This part of Dystopian Overture (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUayZvdXCaw&t=22s) is basically the theme from Luigi's Mansion (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHQ43ObPMHQ&t=10s)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 29, 2016, 04:56:03 PM
If all you want is BALLS and SHREDDING and BLASTBEATS you will be left wanting.

If you're after actual songs and melody and music and emotions by the bucketload - welcome aboard ! :)
These songs aren't as catchy and don;t stand nearly as well on their own IMO. I will give it a 2nd and 3rd listen and I expect to like it better...I just hope that I like it a lot better than I did on the 1st listen.

I don't think any of the songs were meant to be strong on their own, it's all part of the cohesive experience.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 29, 2016, 05:08:21 PM
I love that we're almost up to 20 pages overnight!  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on January 29, 2016, 05:14:50 PM
Man, the intro of A Savior in the Square is just so beautifully gorgeous. And I love when it moves into this epic regal sounding part :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chego_voice on January 29, 2016, 05:27:04 PM
Dystopian Overture: 2:46 sounds very Overture 1928 /SFAM to me...

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on January 29, 2016, 05:29:29 PM
Spotify doesn't tell you which character says what :(
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 29, 2016, 05:33:41 PM
What the hell is happen with second video in Astonishing Website !!???
We wait for a long time for second video unlocked, and when they unlocked it, they just put the same video there !???
I've been try to refresh that page for almost 20 hour to see if the update the page and put a true second video, but it zero !!  :facepalm: :'(
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 05:34:48 PM
The drums that go with JP's solo in the ending of "A New Beginning" could be a bit more varied, and when i say a bit i mean A LOT. They drums are so simple on that part, good drumming on that solo would elevate the song to the next level.

 :omg: Are you joking ? They work BECAUSE they're so simple. :lol

Couldn't agree more with this!! Also, being a bass player. Thank goodness JMX didn't go crazy here! The constant groove that they carve out makes the guitar solo and jazzy chords work perfectly...IMO! I wanted 10 more minutes of it though.
Yep. I play drums/percussion, and I wouldn't change a single thing Mangini does in that section. He has lots of other places to do more detailed things.

Exactly...I'm glad they were disciplined here.There are many other places for 'flash', especially earlier in the same song! It's such a great piece!!

This is a fine example of MM and JM really playing to what the song NEEDS. No need to call attention to themselves.

For those who think MM's drumming is simple, in this album, just listen closely to three songs: A New Beginning, A Life Left Behind, and Three Days. Listen intently on what he is highlighting at any given section, notice how the toms are played melodically (not just up and down, they actually follow the melodies of the other instruments), notice parts where the cymbals highlight JR while the other limbs are doing other things, and then the speed.

If you notice those in the three songs I mentioned, you would find that these elements in the drumming are all over the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on January 29, 2016, 05:35:04 PM
What the hell is happen with second video in Astonishing Website !!???
We wait for a long time for second video unlocked, and when they unlocked it, they just put the same video there !???
I've been try to refresh that page for almost 20 hour to see if the update the page and put a true second video, but it zero !!  :facepalm: :'(

AND WHAT DO THE CLICKABLE EYES DO
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zyzzyva17 on January 29, 2016, 05:38:38 PM
What the hell is happen with second video in Astonishing Website !!???
We wait for a long time for second video unlocked, and when they unlocked it, they just put the same video there !???
I've been try to refresh that page for almost 20 hour to see if the update the page and put a true second video, but it zero !!  :facepalm: :'(

AND WHAT DO THE CLICKABLE EYES DO

You have to click both eyes at the exact same time.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 05:40:11 PM
This is cheesy as hell, but when Faythe found the music player and had a life changing moment, I went "I can totally understand you!" I have my earphones on at least four hours a day and I get the metaphor of the music player being some sort of haven. Anybody else had this cheesy reaction?  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Anguyen92 on January 29, 2016, 05:44:09 PM
Well, after finishing the album and taking a breather from it and doing other stuff, I feel that this was a strong album, of course.  There are some gripes that people may legitimately have.  Yes, there are really a few absolute stand-alone songs in this really long album and, yeah, I did wish for certain parts of the album to have some more heaviness to it (and I'm not one that always wants a balls to the walls sound in every album I hear).  That stated, DT really committed hard on the concept of what they want to show and, when people do things like that, the consensus will be polarizing indeed.  I like it very much on first listen.  I just hope the album ages really well and when I listen to it again in whole, which probably will be a long time from now, maybe the overall experience will be much better than before (which was fine already on first listen though).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 05:47:19 PM
I have listened to the full album five times, my shortened eleven-song playlist listened to six times, and Our New World maybe twenty times.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wideworldofmike on January 29, 2016, 05:50:24 PM
Mangini's drumming is amazing on this record.

Also this is awesome:

The scream shatters the prince’s eardrums causing irreversible nerve damage and rendering him hearing-less. He is now doomed to live inside of his own soundless prison with the rest of his lifetime left to lament in a barren wasteland of silence over his despicable actions.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 29, 2016, 05:51:59 PM
The album was interesting. Gonna need many more listens , overall I enjoyed it. The story was cool and got me during the epic second act.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 05:56:17 PM
Mangini's drumming is amazing on this record.

Also this is awesome:

The scream shatters the prince’s eardrums causing irreversible nerve damage and rendering him hearing-less. He is now doomed to live inside of his own soundless prison with the rest of his lifetime left to lament in a barren wasteland of silence over his despicable actions.

So that was the fate of Daryus. Freaking HD Tracks only has the front cover PDF in the download.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 29, 2016, 05:57:44 PM
This is cheesy as hell, but when Faythe found the music player and had a life changing moment, I went "I can totally understand you!" I have my earphones on at least four hours a day and I get the metaphor of the music player being some sort of haven. Anybody else had this cheesy reaction?  :lol
You're not the only one. Cheesy yes, but also very relatable in the current day world.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wideworldofmike on January 29, 2016, 05:58:45 PM
Hey does anyone know whats up with the second video on the Astonishing mini site? Right now it looks like the same as the 1st one the trailer. :huh:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wideworldofmike on January 29, 2016, 05:59:34 PM
Mangini's drumming is amazing on this record.

Also this is awesome:

The scream shatters the prince’s eardrums causing irreversible nerve damage and rendering him hearing-less. He is now doomed to live inside of his own soundless prison with the rest of his lifetime left to lament in a barren wasteland of silence over his despicable actions.

Its all on the mini site! https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks


So that was the fate of Daryus. Freaking HD Tracks only has the front cover PDF in the download.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on January 29, 2016, 06:02:00 PM
Only about 1/3 of the way through so far, but I am liking it a lot so far.  Love the cinematic feel of it.

The Answer, A Savior In The Square and Brother, Can You Hear Me? are the ones that have really stood out so far. 

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 29, 2016, 06:04:27 PM
I found it awesome when someone described the tango jazz sound I thought of Diablo Swing Orchestra and they have parts in that vein.

Act 2 has more Balls but Act 1 has more variety in style.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 06:06:31 PM
This is cheesy as hell, but when Faythe found the music player and had a life changing moment, I went "I can totally understand you!" I have my earphones on at least four hours a day and I get the metaphor of the music player being some sort of haven. Anybody else had this cheesy reaction?  :lol
You're not the only one. Cheesy yes, but also very relatable in the current day world.

I am looking at the concept now from a distance, and if I view this as a metaphor, I can see a VERY beautiful metaphor. And I find the musical choices in the metaphor interesting. Electronic sounds as the metaphor for noise, prog and melodic elements as the gift of music, metal as some sort of middle ground to noise and music. And I especially love that the old musical styles used in the album (jazz, swingtime, tango) were related to the old man Nafaryus who used to listen to music back in the day.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: NoseofNicko on January 29, 2016, 06:06:44 PM
Great album. Didn't like it much at first, but now I love it. Definitely a grower.

I honestly don't understand how people think they can judge a 2 hour long progressive metal/rock album based on one listen.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: NoseofNicko on January 29, 2016, 06:09:38 PM
Btw, does this part from Dystopian Overture sound really familiar to anyone else:

https://vocaroo.com/i/s0WnqDoo2Pab (https://vocaroo.com/i/s0WnqDoo2Pab)

?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RMGadelha on January 29, 2016, 06:10:47 PM
I like how there's TWO different tango sections in Lord Nafaryus. First on the "what the hype is about" part, more fast paced and intense and then at the end of the track on the "to witness this great spectacle first hand" which is slower and more dramatic. I absolutely love this track!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 29, 2016, 06:12:28 PM
I just notice something annoying me when I check The Astonishing Artwork from Jie Ma
When I look at Daryus face, its feel like different, and I found my feeling is true !!!! Hahaha
So, did Daryus have plastic surgery so his face got more handsomeness now?? Hahahaha  :rollin

From left is Old Daryus and from right is New Daryus  :lol
(https://i.imgur.com/4oTmcLM.jpg)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on January 29, 2016, 06:15:50 PM
The only way this album could be better is by having more Nafaryus.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 29, 2016, 06:16:03 PM
Just thought I'd post to let people know there's a listening party / chat going on for the album. I know there's a thread for it but not everyone may have seen it:
https://dreamtheater.club/blog/2016/01/27/dream-theater-the-astonishing-launch-party-simulisten-7pm-cet-and-7pm-cst/
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on January 29, 2016, 06:18:42 PM
I just notice something annoying me when I check The Astonishing Artwork from Jie Ma
When I look at Daryus face, its feel like different, and I found my feeling is true !!!! Hahaha
So, did Daryus have plastic surgery so his face got more handsomeness now?? Hahahaha  :rollin

From left is Old Daryus and from right is New Daryus  :lol
(https://i.imgur.com/4oTmcLM.jpg)

I guess Photoshop still exists in 2285.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Woodworker1 on January 29, 2016, 06:19:18 PM
Here is what I like about this album:  never in a million years would I seek out this kind of music on my own.  I don't watch musicals or listen to opera.  DT has really exposed me to (dare I say it!) a new world of music.

I doubt DT will ever read this post, but if they do, I sincerely thank you.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: phospheneSOI on January 29, 2016, 06:30:06 PM
Here is what I like about this album:  never in a million years would I seek out this kind of music on my own.  I don't watch musicals or listen to opera.  DT has really exposed me to (dare I say it!) a new world of music.

I doubt DT will ever read this post, but if they do, I sincerely thank you.

Mate - you need to listen to the 1996 version of Jesus Christ Superstar by the London cast. It'll blow your tits off.

This 2000 version of this song is the best though - that deep voice is off the chain. This musical is badass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo81UqO54dg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo81UqO54dg)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dr. DTVT on January 29, 2016, 06:31:00 PM
I'll be honest, getting through disc 1 was a struggle - but I was in a car and couldn't follow along in the book.  But I'm usually not home when I listen to music, so that's still going to be a big strike against because that's just not something that is going to be easy to do often.

I said it before it was released, and I'll say it again...having James sing all the characters was a mistake.  I can't distinguish who is who.  They should have called the album "Dream Theater presents The Astonishing" and brought in different singers for the different parts - that way it's not an "official" DT album, but still recognizes that the band was the source of the album.

I'm not knocking JLB's ability to sing, just the ability to sing so many distinct characters - something I wouldn't expect anyone to do effectively to be honest.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheGreatPretender on January 29, 2016, 06:31:54 PM
Just to make sure (and too lazy to look through all the pages and check)... I'm not the only one who hears the similarities between the intro to Heaven's Cove and the intro to On The Backs of Angels, right?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RJ86 on January 29, 2016, 06:32:16 PM
Only got to listen through once so far, but different. And a good different. The song that really caught my attention was Moment of Betrayal.. Amazing song!!
I think I am really going to like this album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 29, 2016, 06:38:15 PM
I said it before it was released, and I'll say it again...having James sing all the characters was a mistake.  I can't distinguish who is who.  They should have called the album "Dream Theater presents The Astonishing" and brought in different singers for the different parts - that way it's not an "official" DT album, but still recognizes that the band was the source of the album.

I'm not knocking JLB's ability to sing, just the ability to sing so many distinct characters - something I wouldn't expect anyone to do effectively to be honest.

But you can sort of distinguish the characters if you combine them with the musical themes of the characters:

Arhys - soaring rock oriented vocals; rock, prog, marching music
Gabriel - gentle airy vocals with some soaring vocals from time to time; mostly accompanied by acoustic guitar, and some melodic prog rock
Nafaryus - gruff vocals; heavy music with references to "older styles" of music (tango, jazz, swing)
Daryus - rough vocals; mostly metal
Faythe - very gentle and soft vocals; distinct piano melody
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on January 29, 2016, 06:44:21 PM
I said it before it was released, and I'll say it again...having James sing all the characters was a mistake.  I can't distinguish who is who.  They should have called the album "Dream Theater presents The Astonishing" and brought in different singers for the different parts - that way it's not an "official" DT album, but still recognizes that the band was the source of the album.

I'm not knocking JLB's ability to sing, just the ability to sing so many distinct characters - something I wouldn't expect anyone to do effectively to be honest.

But you can sort of distinguish the characters if you combine them with the musical themes of the characters:

Arhys - soaring rock oriented vocals; rock, prog, marching music
Gabriel - gentle airy vocals with some soaring vocals from time to time; mostly accompanied by acoustic guitar, and some melodic prog rock
Nafaryus - gruff vocals; heavy music with references to "older styles" of music (tango, jazz, swing)
Daryus - rough vocals; mostly metal
Faythe - very gentle and soft vocals; distinct piano melody

Xander - "YOU MURDERER!!!"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on January 29, 2016, 06:53:14 PM
Wow, the end of A New Beginning is  :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on January 29, 2016, 06:53:48 PM
Poor Xander. The only character with less dialogue than him is a dead character  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mebert78 on January 29, 2016, 06:57:37 PM
I'm about to listen to the album for the first time. I've avoided all of the leaks online this week. And I've stayed off DTF for the past few days to avoid the possibility of reading any spoilers or reviews -- including this thread, which i've read none of. I'm blindly posting. I know this is a huge album for the band creatively, and I've wanted my listening experience to be perfect. You can only listen to an album for the first time once. I just picked up my copy from Best Buy. I'm about to set the lighting just right and have a drink to relax me. I'm pulling out my headphones right now. My heart is racing. It's time for me to experience The Astonishing...

(Deep breath)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 29, 2016, 07:14:14 PM
Just got through my second spin of ACT 1.   Could we have asked anything more from these guys?    There were about 5 moments that literally brought tears to my eyes.   Not because the parts were sad, but because I never thought we would get to experience an album full of inspiration like this from DT again.   The level of inspiration and effort that went into this album is just so incredible!!!!

This is not a perfect album by any means, however, there is SOOOO much to love.    On the first act I feel as though the album suffers a bit from the stretch of "Savior in the Square" to "Act of Faythe".   Three songs of not much going on there.

However, it quickly makes up for it with THREE DAYS which is just incredible, fun, theatrical, badass, unique etc....

I found the following songs to be great:

Dystopian Overture (amazing... could it really be better than 1928?)

The Gift of Music- awesome vocal opener

Three Days- One of the most fun and one of the best DT songs

A life left behind- super catchy and pretty

The X Aspect- Reminds of the Truman Show and Jurassic Park combined with Dream Theater

A New Beginning- One of the best DT songs ever written and incredibly fun

So excited about this album.   They definitely did NOT dissapoint here.   There are some moments where I think a melody or two fall flat but overall this has massively blown away expectations.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: showdonttell on January 29, 2016, 07:15:27 PM
Listening to the first 40 or so minutes, then taking a break. With an album this big, a single continuous listen from start to finish would be a lot to take in. I'm pacing myself. Just finished "Act of Faythe". Decent so far.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on January 29, 2016, 07:27:50 PM
Ok, everyone is welcome to their opinion but to actually say that there are no songs on TA is pretty ridiculous.

Absolutely. If there's one thing you can say about this album for sure, it's that it has songs.


:P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theanalogkid7 on January 29, 2016, 08:27:04 PM
Just finished up the live simulisten that Noxon hosted at dreamtheater.club.  2nd listen for me.

Simply incredible.  So many moments of sheer bliss on this album.  Im going to need to listen to it a few more times to really grasp it all, but man... I'm feeling really good right now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Chimpi on January 29, 2016, 08:29:53 PM
Album finished.
I really loved this album.  I love the scenery represented throughout, the change in character dynamics (through vocal changes, of course), and my goodness I love how much it has overtones of Sgt. Peppers; it's oh-so tasteful.  As a trumpeter myself, I love how they represented Lord Nafaryus and the Empire with symphonic marches and musical chants.  So great.  I fear I can't pick out songs along the way to listen to individually without the desire to listen as a whole.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on January 29, 2016, 08:35:44 PM
Just like 'lovethedrake' said  'On the first act I feel as though the album suffers a bit from the stretch of "Savior in the Square" to "Act of Faythe".   Three songs of not much going on there. '

Kev, I agree that a new beginning is  :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy   This song could stand alone and please extend that ending.  Also loved the heavy drums on this song.

I do not remember the songs, but I got an uneasy Lion King/disney feeling for a while.

Love the organic sound of the piano

This should be interesting live.  I am sure that London will let us know in a few weeks.  On to disc 2 before bed time.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zook on January 29, 2016, 08:36:33 PM
NOise MAChineS
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Randaran on January 29, 2016, 08:39:46 PM
Is anyone else here pleasantly surprised by the story? The one in Metropolis seemed designed to deliver the twist ending rather than tell a compelling tale, but The Astonishing is the opposite. I like how the story is easy to follow; in only two listens, I've come to understand most of it without looking at the lyrics. It is somewhat complex, has characters with distinguishable personalities and motivations that drive the events, and even contains some moral ambiguity. Sure, it is nowhere near a masterpiece, but it's a lot better than I had expected.

As for the music itself...let's just say that this is easily my favorite DT album since SDOIT. There are numerous memorable sections throughout the entirety of the album, and I never found myself bored at any point. My one complaint is how, after 80 minutes of mostly mellow music, the heavy portion of the album was over too quickly. We have The Path That Divides, The Walking Shadow, and My Last Farewell, and then we're back to the soft stuff.

Standout tracks include A Better Life, Lord Nafaryus, Three Days, A New Beginning, Heaven's Cove, The Walking Shadow, My Last Farewell, Losing Fayth, and Our New World.

I can't wait to see this live in late April.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Chimpi on January 29, 2016, 08:43:15 PM
The scream shatters the prince’s eardrums causing irreversible nerve damage and rendering him hearing-less. He is now doomed to live inside of his own soundless prison with the rest of his lifetime left to lament in a barren wasteland of silence over his despicable actions.

Haha!  Perfect!  I'm all annoyed that Arabelle was so quick to forgive Daryus; it feels so light-hearted.  (Well, I guess since it is his mother, it's much easier that way...)  This is the perfect justice!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jayvee3 on January 29, 2016, 08:44:04 PM

I said it before it was released, and I'll say it again...having James sing all the characters was a mistake.  I can't distinguish who is who.  They should have called the album "Dream Theater presents The Astonishing" and brought in different singers for the different parts - that way it's not an "official" DT album, but still recognizes that the band was the source of the album.


No offence, but I personally would have hated that idea. Fine if it were like the minor work Theresa Thompson did on 'Through her Eyes' and 'TSCO' (actually, come to think of it i think there are some female vocals at the end of 'Act of Faythe'), but I think James does just beautifully the way it is.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jayvee3 on January 29, 2016, 08:51:52 PM
Just like 'lovethedrake' said  'On the first act I feel as though the album suffers a bit from the stretch of "Savior in the Square" to "Act of Faythe".   Three songs of not much going on there. '

So interesting to see the differing opinions - I actually love that stretch of songs, and 'When your Time Has Come' is one of my album highlights at this early stage. The parts in that song that begin with:  "When you're facing the path that divides....' I simply have not been able to get out of my head all day..  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on January 29, 2016, 09:03:35 PM
I find it super interesting that so many people are praising A New Beginning as much as they are - I think A Lie Left Behind, Ravenskill, Chosen, A Tempting Offer,  and The X Aspect are easily more catchy and just all around cooler songs than ANB.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: clinks63 on January 29, 2016, 09:10:13 PM
clinks63 was here..

(from page 1 to 21)


lastly what is the digital player? is it a Walkman or an iPod?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Deep Sixx on January 29, 2016, 09:14:22 PM
us
 
- Everyone is talking about the vibes the get from songs. I'm getting a MAJOR James Bond vibes from 3:12 to 3:30


That's exactly what I was reminded of when I heard that. Glad I'm not the only one.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 29, 2016, 09:25:38 PM

I said it before it was released, and I'll say it again...having James sing all the characters was a mistake.  I can't distinguish who is who.  They should have called the album "Dream Theater presents The Astonishing" and brought in different singers for the different parts - that way it's not an "official" DT album, but still recognizes that the band was the source of the album.


No offence, but I personally would have hated that idea. Fine if it were like the minor work Theresa Thompson did on 'Through her Eyes' and 'TSCO' (actually, come to think of it i think there are some female vocals at the end of 'Act of Faythe'), but I think James does just
beautifully the way it is.

While I think James does a fantastic job on this album, its almost impossible to distinguish your voice enough to play 8 different characters (unless you are Peter Gabriel who is just a god of all things music) 

I am loving this album so for but I have to admit that I do pine for some more vocal variation.  Its not that James doesn't vary his vocals, but on a true rock opera or musical I think its important to distinguish characters. 

 Take the original Jesus Christ Superstar for example.  IMO this is one of the all time great albums ever made and one of the great things about it aside from the amazing melodies is the unique difference between Ian Gillian and Murray Head (Jesus and Judas) and the varying voices of different characters.

In this regard I believe DT was damned if they did and damned if they didn't because I too would have actually been disappointed had I heard that there were different vocalists playing the characters.  For DT, I only want JLB!   I just think it was a crazy tough task.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on January 29, 2016, 09:27:55 PM
Well....hell....

 I AM Astonished...  I've managed to listen to all of Act 1 and the first few tracks of Act 2, before I had to stop.  It's just TOO overwhelming for me as far as content.  During the first part of Act 1 one word just kept surfacing in my mind... "Ambitious!"  Regardless of my final opinion on this effort, I have to give the band a standing ovation.  THIS is Progressive!  And for a band that has been fairly predictable in the last decade plus, this is a serious breath of fresh air.  I believe this ....what the hell do you even call it?...album?, story? Rock Opera? will take quite a few listens for me to formulate any kind of learned opinion.

I will say that after getting this far into my first listen, I have a new found respect for JLB.  I mean holy hell!!!  I can't think of any other rock album, opera, project, that is as vocally ambitious as this in the world of Rock and Roll. At least that I've ever heard.

I Have to actually formulate a plan moving forward as to how I listen to and digest this work.  I think I'll finish the 2nd Act and then break it down into quarters, or 4 acts,  to absorb it effectively.  Focusing on one quarter at a time.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on January 29, 2016, 09:28:47 PM
I am perfectly fine with JLB doing all of the vocals and characters.  Given that he has appeared on an Ayreon album, having different vocalists for each character would have given it too much of a feel like that project.  A guest vocalist, like on SFAM, would have been neat, but this is fine.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: keysmania on January 29, 2016, 09:33:41 PM
first impressions: meehhh
hope it gets better as i give it more spins....(also i am biased in that i have never really listen to DT for their lyrics, im an instrumental fan)
the production i havent been a big fan of thier last several albums... the guitar tone is rich and thick, drums are compressed as always, bass is smooth, labrie seems to be soaring in his game, the orchestrations feel a little out of place but im most disappointed by the keyboards, which sounds very muffled and buried beneath everything else
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 29, 2016, 09:37:04 PM
I am perfectly fine with JLB doing all of the vocals and characters.  Given that he has appeared on an Ayreon album, having different vocalists for each character would have given it too much of a feel like that project.  A guest vocalist, like on SFAM, would have been neat, but this is fine.

I totally agree.. I like Ayreon but I DID NOT want this to sound anything like Ayreon.   That's why I said Damned if they do damned if they don't because I think a majority of the fans (like myself) wanted this to predominantly be our main man James Labrie but its just tough to pull off a one man musical.   Although I think they still did a fantastic job vocally.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DT_12_Octavarium on January 29, 2016, 09:39:29 PM
ok, ive listened to it back to back 10 times, and my new conclusion is that this album is... Astonishing!  :loser: sorry, im not sure if anyone has made that joke already

10/10, album of the year
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on January 29, 2016, 09:45:36 PM
So this may have been discussed already, but... the second video on the website was just the same video again? xD
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertie_Wooster on January 29, 2016, 09:46:27 PM
Claudio Sanchez would be a great Nafaryus.   Steve Perry could be Gabriel (in his prime)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Crow on January 29, 2016, 09:57:45 PM
okay so am I the only one who thinks the story kind of gets hopelessly derailed in the second act? they start out with "the NOMACs are off, tonight the revolution begins" and then we get Arhys going "oh crap maybe i shouldn't betray my brother" and then he gets killed be Daryus and Gabriel and then Faythe show up just so Faythe can get stabbity stabbed and then the rest of the album is about feeling sad about how Faythe is dying until she doesn't die and then everyone is happy except Daryus who decides to not exist for the rest of the album after the stabby stabbing ????

i mean the plot was predictable as hell for the first act, sure, but serviceable

am i just missing something here though? i haven't read the long story page but i'm about to and maybe that'll clear something up but it seems like the story decided to stop being coherent for the last third of the album or so  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jayvee3 on January 29, 2016, 10:14:48 PM
i haven't read the long story page but i'm about to and maybe that'll clear something up

You should. It fills in a considerable amount of blanks  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 29, 2016, 10:17:08 PM
Moment of Betrayal kicks ass... and I hated this song after like 5 listens.  Now within the context of the album its so badass. 

The bizarre thing for me is the way I now feel about MM's drumming on this song.  Its amazing.  He kills it on this song and at first I didn't like it.

also the youtube version that was released from the eddie trunk show had terrible quality which I think is what the issue was.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 29, 2016, 10:17:45 PM
duplicate
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on January 29, 2016, 10:29:10 PM
After my first listen I was in doubt, thinking that it was too slow, and that it would be quickly forgotten.
During the second list, I started digging more, wanting to know what was on it.
The third arrived. I listened to it with headphones and reading the story notes (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks) and I can only say... I'm astonished! Serious potential to be the best record ever.

I have a question, though: Reading the info linked above, apparently Xander was never kidnapped!! Why would Arhys comply with Daryus if the kid wasn't kidnapped?

Edit: This part of Dystopian Overture (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUayZvdXCaw&t=22s) is basically the theme from Luigi's Mansion (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHQ43ObPMHQ&t=10s)

Very interesting!! This was a great theme, and I couldn't pinpoint if it was because I knew it or because of its own qualities. (I never played the original, only Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon. Do you know if the theme appear there?)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on January 29, 2016, 10:30:22 PM
I haven't had time to go through the whole thread, so, sorry if this has been mentioned.
I just noticed that the first minute=+ of "A Savior in the Square" is "Our new World". :eek
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2016, 10:33:38 PM
I haven't had time to go through the whole thread, so, sorry if this has been mentioned.
I just noticed that the first minute=+ of "A Savior in the Square" is "Our new World". :eek

I noticed it right away, but that might be because I listened to A Saviour in the Square dozens of times before I ever heard Our New World. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on January 29, 2016, 11:02:10 PM
How the fuck is JLB going to pull The Path That Divides live?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 29, 2016, 11:05:17 PM
How the fuck is JLB going to pull The Path That Divides live?

I thought the same my first listen. He's gonna have to shorten the length of the last lines a lot?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dr. DTVT on January 29, 2016, 11:09:48 PM
I am perfectly fine with JLB doing all of the vocals and characters.  Given that he has appeared on an Ayreon album, having different vocalists for each character would have given it too much of a feel like that project.

Which is why I suggested DT not release it under the DT banner in my original post that was only partially quoted.  If it was only two or three characters, ok.  But eight is too many to distinguish.  That's a big reason Ayreon and Avantasia are so digestable.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 29, 2016, 11:10:28 PM
Just finished my second full spin of the album. 

I would rank Act 1 a 9/10  and Act 2 about a 5/10.    There is something missing from Act 2...   It doesn't have the same level of ambition.

I hope my third listen lends itself to a better Act 2 experience.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on January 29, 2016, 11:11:58 PM
Crushing pain and crippling grief
Nothing like I’ve ever felt
God above and souls beneath
Hear my last farewell!

I expected this part to be a reprise of Moment of Betrayal chorus.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Orthogonal on January 29, 2016, 11:17:50 PM
I am perfectly fine with JLB doing all of the vocals and characters.  Given that he has appeared on an Ayreon album, having different vocalists for each character would have given it too much of a feel like that project.

Which is why I suggested DT not release it under the DT banner in my original post that was only partially quoted.  If it was only two or three characters, ok.  But eight is too many to distinguish.  That's a big reason Ayreon and Avantasia are so digestable.

Still on my first spin, but I agree with this sentiment. Would much rather prefer an ensemble of vocalists for a project like this. Not that JLB is doing a bad job, just that without the liner notes, I'm going to have a hard time knowing which character is "speaking" on subsequent listens.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 29, 2016, 11:37:46 PM
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Met-Fan/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-01/20160129_233235_zpsesxljlim.jpg) (https://smg.photobucket.com/user/Met-Fan/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-01/20160129_233235_zpsesxljlim.jpg.html)

On my first run..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: shredd on January 29, 2016, 11:59:46 PM
Sorry if this has already been discussed, but can somebody clarify to me why the micro-site for the album simply put the trailer in the second video slot as well....? surely this is  mistake?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 30, 2016, 12:52:32 AM
Just like 'lovethedrake' said  'On the first act I feel as though the album suffers a bit from the stretch of "Savior in the Square" to "Act of Faythe".   Three songs of not much going on there. '

Not much going on there musically or story-wise? That set of songs set up the meeting between Gabriel and Faythe, Gabriel sang the song that moved Nafaryus, introduced us to the backstory of Faythe. The meeting was also the pivotal point which led to the later story developments driven by Nafaryus noticing how Gabriel became fond of Faythe.

Musically, Savior in the Square was the first song that had multiple musical themes depending on which character is focused on. The set of songs also introduced two important musical themse: the piano melody representing Faythe, and the intro to Savior in the Square which would be reprised in Our New World. That second musical theme seems to represent the union of Gabriel, Faythe and Nafaryus, as it appears in the scenes where they are all together for the gift of music.

A lot are also saying that the ending is very Disney. The question is, what Disney movies actually had the bad guys turning good in the end? Disney movies are pretty BRUTAL when it comes to bad guys, they almost all end up falling off a cliff and dying a violent death.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 30, 2016, 01:04:57 AM
Done, simply blown away.. DT has once again treated me to sonic ecstasy,,
So much to process, countless more playthroughs required.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Evermind on January 30, 2016, 01:54:00 AM
I said it before it was released, and I'll say it again...having James sing all the characters was a mistake.  I can't distinguish who is who.  They should have called the album "Dream Theater presents The Astonishing" and brought in different singers for the different parts - that way it's not an "official" DT album, but still recognizes that the band was the source of the album.

I'm not knocking JLB's ability to sing, just the ability to sing so many distinct characters - something I wouldn't expect anyone to do effectively to be honest.

I agree with Mason here. One of the things that detracts my enjoyment of the album is the fact the characters are indistinguishable for me without a lyric sheet. I mean, Nafaryus is perfectly distinguishable because he always has some crazy musical theme behind his parts, but that's about it.

Another thing is I felt the album was too bloated and I think this album didn't need to be over two hours long.

However, after two listens I think some parts are really fantastic, like Lord Nafaryus (I knew I would like this song when I heard the title :lol ) or Three Days, and some songs are also really good like Ravenskill and Moment of Betrayal, which works much much better in context of the album. On the other hand, the overture and the final song left me disappointed a bit.

Still, overall, might be the best album DT had since Systematic Chaos for me. Need to listen more to digest the whole thing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: alexofsweden on January 30, 2016, 02:33:23 AM
Negative:

I wish i could like the album, but i can´t...all i hear is ballads alá The Spirit Carries On. I´m going to give it a couple of spins before a completly give up, but for now i´m very dissapointed.
Mangini´s playing doesn´t do it for me, always the same machine gun snare fills. His double kicks sometimes seems out of place and makes no sense. He´s a very skilled drummer though, but it feels too mechanical and stiff!

Positive:

It sounds great
Very smooth playing and solos from Petrucci, as always
Labrie haven´t sounded better, very diverse singing
Jordan is Jordan


I really hope this album grows into me, cause i´ve never experienced wanting to turn of an Dream Theater album halfway through before...been listening to them since they released Awake.

My spontanious feeling right now: I want Portnoy back...i really do

So, it´s growing on me...keeps getting better and better  :metal :metal :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 30, 2016, 03:03:35 AM
My one question is why did Gabriel save only Faythe and not Arhys too?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 30, 2016, 03:07:33 AM
My one question is why did Gabriel save only Faythe and not Arhys too?

I don't think she was actually dead yet, but very close to it. Arhys was dead dead.


I think.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jayvee3 on January 30, 2016, 03:08:31 AM
My one question is why did Gabriel save only Faythe and not Arhys too?

Arhys was dead, Faythe was on her last breaths but still alive. That's what I concluded anyway...  ;)

***Ninja'd by Blob  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jayvee3 on January 30, 2016, 03:19:04 AM
I said it before it was released, and I'll say it again...having James sing all the characters was a mistake.  I can't distinguish who is who.  They should have called the album "Dream Theater presents The Astonishing" and brought in different singers for the different parts - that way it's not an "official" DT album, but still recognizes that the band was the source of the album.

I'm not knocking JLB's ability to sing, just the ability to sing so many distinct characters - something I wouldn't expect anyone to do effectively to be honest.

I agree with Mason here. One of the things that detracts my enjoyment of the album is the fact the characters are indistinguishable for me without a lyric sheet. I mean, Nafaryus is perfectly distinguishable because he always has some crazy musical theme behind his parts, but that's about it.

Another thing is I felt the album was too bloated and I think this album didn't need to be over two hours long.

However, after two listens I think some parts are really fantastic, like Lord Nafaryus (I knew I would like this song when I heard the title :lol ) or Three Days, and some songs are also really good like Ravenskill and Moment of Betrayal, which works much much better in context of the album. On the other hand, the overture and the final song left me disappointed a bit.

Still, overall, might be the best album DT had since Systematic Chaos for me. Need to listen more to digest the whole thing.

Does it really matter though? I mean, once you've been through the album once with the lyric sheet and even read a bit more into the story on the site, the story is pretty clear. Understanding that, it's pretty distinguishable who's singing what based purely on knowing the story alone. I've listened for a day and get who's singing what as it's pretty clear in the context of the story.

I also think that for longevity, as purely a Dream Theater album, it is better with James singing. I've been listening to many of the songs in random order, and contrary to what many have said, I feel many of them work absolutely fine standalone. This will hold well  when it isn't shiny and new anymore, with people just listening to the songs because they simply flat out like them amongst the rest of the DT catalogue.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Curious Orange on January 30, 2016, 03:23:50 AM
I'm afraid I'm going to have to join the minority who don't like the album.

There's a real lack of actual songs here. They've let the story get in the way of the music. All I hear is a collection of unfinished song fragments, some of which are really good, but none of them are satisfying.

That said, I can still remember throwing 6DOIT across the room when I bought it - I thought it was awful on first listen, but it has grown on me since and I now think it's one of their stronger efforts. I imagine I'll come to love TA more as I get into it (there's a LOT of music to get into), but after two listens I can honestly say it's not so much Astonishing as Disappointing.  :-\

Sorry.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on January 30, 2016, 03:25:56 AM
The song currently stuck in my head is "A Better Life". I just love everything about it. Foot stomping rhythm in the verses, that solo!! I get chills every time the "Evangeline" bit kicks in. Just brilliant.

Also, I don't think anyone's mentioned any similarities with Les Mis, but that's what I'm reminded of when I hear Brother Can You Hear Me/Hymn Of A Thousand Voices. Specifically thinking of  "Can you hear the people sing..." part if anyone knows it. I'm not saying it's musically similar of course, but it serves a similar purpose in the story. Like a call to arms, for the people to join together in revolution..

Anyway, total nonsense, but that's just what it conjured up in my mind..  :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pax on January 30, 2016, 03:31:47 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEZKQHqYR6Q&list=PLToa5JuFMsXR7S5f8Ti0IWHYFOU5WclqA&index=1

Wow, I didn't realize DT uploaded the whole album on youtube :O
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: McNugg on January 30, 2016, 03:33:13 AM
I'm afraid I'm going to have to join the minority who don't like the album.

There's a real lack of actual songs here. They've let the story get in the way of the music. All I hear is a collection of unfinished song fragments, some of which are really good, but none of them are satisfying.


You've perfectly summed up my thoughts!  I've been struggling to think of words to describe my opinion but you've just gone and done it!

There are a few very good songs but then there is so much filler.  The music just chugs along in the background like a slow dull ballad while JLB tells the story.  A lot of the music is very forgettable.  Unlike say Ayreon for example where I feel the music not only accompanies but helps to tell the story, I just feel like it's background noise to the storytelling for a lot of The Astonishing.  They've had to add or extend songs purely so they can fit all the words of the story in.

There are some songs I absolutely love.  Gift of Music, A Better Life, Three Days, A Life Left Behind, Our New World for example.  I'm sure i'll be listening to them a whole load more as they work so well on their own.  But the rest..meh.  Still can't remember much of the rest even after many many listens.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on January 30, 2016, 03:39:28 AM
The thing is though if they were to use diffrent singers like Ayreon they had to do the same live which means alot of extra personel to pay especially if they used famous singers. If they used famous singers then there's the logistical nightmare of getting everyone on the same tour. Everytime they play songs from this album live they either have to scale down and let JLB sing everything or use backup singers or the worst scenario imo use backtrack.

Let's say they did use diffrent singers on the album then it would be much weirder to hear JLB sing everything himself which means they're stuck with backup singers or backtrack everytime they played anything from TA.

I think this might be the reason why JLB sang everything himself on the album, that way people will be used to his voice doing all the parts live.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 30, 2016, 03:54:50 AM
I'm not into albums with a lot of guest vocalists, and I'm glad they did it this way. JLB is the voice of DT, and I think having so many other guests would have undermined JLB's abilities. And I'm fussy with vocalists, so they probably would have ruined it for me.
And if they do it live with just JLB, you'll get comparisons with the studio album and people wishing it was all JLB in the first place.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dtrocker25 on January 30, 2016, 04:10:12 AM
Got the  hd flac download...You cant fully rate this on one listen..but it is an amazing work i must say..if they can pull this off live which its pretty much been created for it will be..should i say. ASTONISHING

GOD I HOPE THEY COME BACK TO DFW :hefdaddy
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 30, 2016, 04:15:54 AM
My one question is why did Gabriel save only Faythe and not Arhys too?

I don't think she was actually dead yet, but very close to it. Arhys was dead dead.


I think.

Makes sense. Thanks
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RuRoRul on January 30, 2016, 04:20:29 AM
A story point / question:

Does anyone else think it's strange Daryus has no presence after The Walking Shadow? Reading the lyrics while listening I was wondering if he died as well and I missed that somehow, as he has no lines and suddenly Gabriel and others are on the scene but there's no sense of danger that the guy that just killed and attacked people might do it again. But obviously he still seems to be about at the end based on the lyrics. Maybe he went into shock after stabbing his sister or something - would have been good to the get that across in the music if so.

Also, I seem to have a problem with the track descriptions (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks/#cnt1) online  (which I realise may contain the answer to my question), and I'm not sure if there's a issue with my browser or something, as the they appear to just cut off at the end. E.g. The Answer ends like:
 "He embodies the very essence of promise and hope that the inhabitants of Ravenskill cling to and it is he whom they wholly place their belief in. They see"

And A Better Life ends like:
"Knowing that she would not survive the birth of their son and recounting the life of misery and misfortune she endured, he"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on January 30, 2016, 04:22:02 AM
Just realised that Gabriel inadvertently sends Faythe to Heaven's Cove on the night. During Road to Revolution:

"I know where there is faith there's always hope,
We'll meet beneath the stars at Heaven's Cove"

I did wonder why on earth Faythe was there. And Gabriel turns up just in time!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bl5150 on January 30, 2016, 04:26:26 AM
The band should read the reviews at Amazon.

Yikes. As a guitar player I'm starting to wonder if the good people at Mesa Boogie are starting to regret slapping a JP name tag (first time they ever did an "artist model" endorsement) on what might well be one of the best amps they ever made (I won't get into the technical details).

And while I kept thinking - wow, even harmonicas, whistling or an accordion couldn't make this any worse - on comes bag pipes. Bag pipes!  :rollin

Why would they possibly regret a JP signature model amp after hearing TA? It has some of JP's best guitar work on it ever. Great chord structure, riffs, solos...This album is signature JP stuff.

Just a hunch. This album is going to go down as DT's "The Elder" or "Rock me tonight". And the fact that "Rolling Stone" likes it is more of an indicator since they're almost always wrong about everything.

I'm (so far) not a big fan of The Astonishing ,so I can maybe relate to The Elder as it was very polarising.  But Rock Me Tonight is going too far  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 30, 2016, 04:28:35 AM
A story point / question:

Does anyone else think it's strange Daryus has no presence after The Walking Shadow? Reading the lyrics while listening I was wondering if he died as well and I missed that somehow, as he has no lines and suddenly Gabriel and others are on the scene but there's no sense of danger that the guy that just killed and attacked people might do it again. But obviously he still seems to be about at the end based on the lyrics. Maybe he went into shock after stabbing his sister or something - would have been good to the get that across in the music if so.

Also, I seem to have a problem with the track descriptions (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks/#cnt1) online  (which I realise may contain the answer to my question), and I'm not sure if there's a issue with my browser or something, as the they appear to just cut off at the end. E.g. The Answer ends like:
 "He embodies the very essence of promise and hope that the inhabitants of Ravenskill cling to and it is he whom they wholly place their belief in. They see"

And A Better Life ends like:
"Knowing that she would not survive the birth of their son and recounting the life of misery and misfortune she endured, he"

Daryus is in utter shock about what he has just done. Also the scream we hear at the end of My Last Farewell shatters his eardrums.
"Faythe is unaffected due to the protection of her earphones but Daryus is not so lucky. The scream shatters the prince’s eardrums causing irreversible nerve damage and rendering him hearing-less. He is now doomed to live inside of his own soundless prison with the rest of his lifetime left to lament in a barren wasteland of silence over his despicable actions."

Weird that your track explanations cut off...I can see them completely
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on January 30, 2016, 04:33:17 AM
A story point / question:

Does anyone else think it's strange Daryus has no presence after The Walking Shadow? Reading the lyrics while listening I was wondering if he died as well and I missed that somehow, as he has no lines and suddenly Gabriel and others are on the scene but there's no sense of danger that the guy that just killed and attacked people might do it again. But obviously he still seems to be about at the end based on the lyrics. Maybe he went into shock after stabbing his sister or something - would have been good to the get that across in the music if so.

Also, I seem to have a problem with the track descriptions (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks/#cnt1) online  (which I realise may contain the answer to my question), and I'm not sure if there's a issue with my browser or something, as the they appear to just cut off at the end. E.g. The Answer ends like:
 "He embodies the very essence of promise and hope that the inhabitants of Ravenskill cling to and it is he whom they wholly place their belief in. They see"

And A Better Life ends like:
"Knowing that she would not survive the birth of their son and recounting the life of misery and misfortune she endured, he"

I have the same problem with those song descriptions. I was just reading up on The Walking Shadow for the reason you described. It seems Gabriel let's out a huge scream that everyone can hear from afar (which brings Nafaryus and Arabelle to the scene),  however Faythe doesn't hear it because of her headphones. Then  it's says "But Daryus is not so lucky. The... (cuts off)" so I think he may get knocked out by the scream or something?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 30, 2016, 04:34:22 AM
That must be some real good noise cancelling headphones she's got, to not hear Gabriel's scream.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: craig1928 on January 30, 2016, 04:37:27 AM
i also wonder what song is very similar to Our New World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAh--lH0H3U
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RuRoRul on January 30, 2016, 04:37:51 AM
A story point / question:

Does anyone else think it's strange Daryus has no presence after The Walking Shadow? Reading the lyrics while listening I was wondering if he died as well and I missed that somehow, as he has no lines and suddenly Gabriel and others are on the scene but there's no sense of danger that the guy that just killed and attacked people might do it again. But obviously he still seems to be about at the end based on the lyrics. Maybe he went into shock after stabbing his sister or something - would have been good to the get that across in the music if so.

Also, I seem to have a problem with the track descriptions (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks/#cnt1) online  (which I realise may contain the answer to my question), and I'm not sure if there's a issue with my browser or something, as the they appear to just cut off at the end. E.g. The Answer ends like:
 "He embodies the very essence of promise and hope that the inhabitants of Ravenskill cling to and it is he whom they wholly place their belief in. They see"

And A Better Life ends like:
"Knowing that she would not survive the birth of their son and recounting the life of misery and misfortune she endured, he"

Daryus is in utter shock about what he has just done. Also the scream we hear at the end of My Last Farewell shatters his eardrums.
"Faythe is unaffected due to the protection of her earphones but Daryus is not so lucky. The scream shatters the prince’s eardrums causing irreversible nerve damage and rendering him hearing-less. He is now doomed to live inside of his own soundless prison with the rest of his lifetime left to lament in a barren wasteland of silence over his despicable actions."

Weird that your track explanations cut off...I can see them completely
:tup. That is pretty cool, makes sense that something happened to him at that point. Thanks.

There must just be a problem with my browser or something then if they work fine for some others. I am reading on a tablet at the moment so maybe that is causing problems. Will try to look at them again later on another device, and can hopefully catch the more of the additional context / explanation for events.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RuRoRul on January 30, 2016, 04:39:30 AM
I have the same problem with those song descriptions. I was just reading up on The Walking Shadow for the reason you described. It seems Gabriel let's out a huge scream that everyone can hear from afar (which brings Nafaryus and Arabelle to the scene),  however Faythe doesn't hear it because of her headphones. Then  it's says "But Daryus is not so lucky. The... (cuts off)" so I think he may get knocked out by the scream or something?
Yeah, I didn't think there was much point in reading the track descriptions if I wasn't sure how much I was missing. Looks like it cuts off just as it gets to the part V_R11 described.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 30, 2016, 04:43:52 AM
I just read this whole thread to catch up  :lol

At any rate, I listened through the entire thing once while reading the lyrics (I am now playing it again in the background).

My first impressions are: holy shit.  This is really quite the accomplishment by the band.

Too early to rate, I definitely need to digest it more, but I am so impressed by the knowledge of the ambition and scope of what they attempted, and how they fully committed to it, and nailed it.  Just a really impressive musical achievement.

The production is also wonderful, which is an extra added bonus.

The sound of the band, over the course of the album, is like Pink Floyd had a child with Queen, and that child grew up listening to Dream Theater, and then made a rock opera.

There are loads of musical ideas here, with plenty of real piano and other instruments, as well as a good amount of riffage and plenty of great solos.  And JLB is just ridiculously good on this project.

I need to familiarize myself more with the actual songs, but overall, I could not be more impressed with this album.  Astonishing, indeed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Rickharris1011 on January 30, 2016, 04:44:09 AM
How the fuck is JLB going to pull The Path That Divides live?

I thought the same my first listen. He's gonna have to shorten the length of the last lines a lot?

I read in an interview that at a couple of points in the show he'll pre-record one character, which will be on the video screen.  He'll sing another character towards the screen.  This might be one of those songs. 

Either that or he'll totally go Gabriel, dress as Arhys on one half of his body and Daryus the other and keep flipping around on the stage depending who's singing.  He'll then pull out a specially designed sword mic stand and stab his Arhys side with his Daryus hand.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Rickharris1011 on January 30, 2016, 04:46:40 AM
The song currently stuck in my head is "A Better Life". I just love everything about it. Foot stomping rhythm in the verses, that solo!! I get chills every time the "Evangeline" bit kicks in. Just brilliant.

Also, I don't think anyone's mentioned any similarities with Les Mis, but that's what I'm reminded of when I hear Brother Can You Hear Me/Hymn Of A Thousand Voices. Specifically thinking of  "Can you hear the people sing..." part if anyone knows it. I'm not saying it's musically similar of course, but it serves a similar purpose in the story. Like a call to arms, for the people to join together in revolution..

Anyway, total nonsense, but that's just what it conjured up in my mind..  :P

Not nonsense at all.  JP said in an interview  that Les Mis and Jesus Christ Superstar were influences for the album.  I heard they tried to get Anne Hathaway to play the part of Faythe but she was afraid of being upstaged by JLB so declined.  (OK I made that part up, but would still be pretty cool)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: r0cken on January 30, 2016, 04:49:09 AM
Just finished listening for the first time, and sorry if it's been discussed already, but... What's up with all the sugar? I mean the mellow parts of part II - My Last Farewell, Losing Fayth, Whispers on the Wind. It's not just mellow, it's, I don't know... Bordering on nausea-inducing.

Not trying to be negative, I really did enjoy the first part a lot. I bet the second will grow on me too.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Rickharris1011 on January 30, 2016, 04:53:39 AM
That must be some real good noise cancelling headphones she's got, to not hear Gabriel's scream.

I think JP's already working with Beats on the merchandising deal.  The latest in Noise Cancelling Headphones, the StudioBUG.  Get a pair free when you purchase the Boogie JP2C. 
Keeps you from hearing eardrum-shattering screams and bad reviews :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RuRoRul on January 30, 2016, 04:56:17 AM
There must just be a problem with my browser or something then if they work fine for some others. I am reading on a tablet at the moment so maybe that is causing problems. Will try to look at them again later on another device, and can hopefully catch the more of the additional context / explanation for events.
Just to mention in case anyone else had the same experience with the track descriptions on the site, they are fine on my laptop.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SeRoX on January 30, 2016, 05:09:55 AM
Anyone hears the similarites between Mandmen&Sinners and TA vocallly, especailly in James' rough style. And... I can hear the same vocal using style that James did on Frameshift as well. They were my favourite. James is absoluletly the MVP of the album for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 30, 2016, 05:28:33 AM
I listened to the album for the fourth time this morning. Nearly every song gave me chills, except two or three (not counting NOMAC tracks). This album is much better than what i was expecting, and even better than i hoped.

On another note: has any of you listened to both the CD and the HDtracks versions? I wonder how big the improvement is, if any.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 30, 2016, 05:39:16 AM
I can see a huge potential for prequels to The Astonishing. Some plot ideas:

- Gabriel's upbringing
- How the NOMACs were built and came into being
- Nafaryus' upbringing with his father and Bug
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on January 30, 2016, 05:50:31 AM
clinks63 was here..

OH MY GOD, HE'S BACK!!!!!!! This is better than Vlasto Day.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 30, 2016, 05:54:37 AM
I checked the loudness war website and found that the CD actually has a better DR rating than the HDtracks version. Can this be correct?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikemangioy on January 30, 2016, 06:05:50 AM
Wow, this record... it sands up to its name!

I need to listen to it a few more times before I can tell favorites and stuff, but I like what I hear. It's incredibly well-written and immersive as far as story goes. Good freaking job of thinking out of the box and doing something creative as hell.  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pax on January 30, 2016, 06:06:32 AM
So, everyone is happy, but Arhys dies...Well, shit xD
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on January 30, 2016, 06:13:48 AM
I am perfectly fine with JLB doing all of the vocals and characters.  Given that he has appeared on an Ayreon album, having different vocalists for each character would have given it too much of a feel like that project.

Which is why I suggested DT not release it under the DT banner in my original post that was only partially quoted.  If it was only two or three characters, ok.  But eight is too many to distinguish.  That's a big reason Ayreon and Avantasia are so digestable.

Okay, but this IS a Dream Theater record .  It is written and performed by Dream Theater, so releasing it under a different name, just because some guest vocalists, would be kinda goofy, if you ask me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on January 30, 2016, 06:15:59 AM
Also, I noticed a drop-off in quality in Act 2 on my first listen, almost like it reached the point of tedium since the songs all seemed to have a similar vibe, but we'll see if I still think after a few more listens (which only takes many more hours :lol :lol).  I disagree with anyone who says this album doesn't have songs, though.  Tons of really good ones in Act 1.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chego_voice on January 30, 2016, 06:35:25 AM
The third arrives...

Before the leaves have fallen
Before we lock the doors
There must be a third and last dance
This one will last forever
Metropolis watches and thoughtfully smiles
She's taken you to your home

It can only take place
When the struggle between our children has ended
Now the miracle and the sleeper know that the third is love

Love is the dance of eternity


...sounds very Astonishing for me
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Freeze on January 30, 2016, 06:39:33 AM
Three listenings in , and I feel pretty sure this is DT's best album since SFAM in my opinion. Lots of music still to sink in , but I feel this is a album I really want to hear again after the record is over. The production is really good as well. Very well done overall I think. I'm really looking forward to see this album performed live here in Norway at the end of next month.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on January 30, 2016, 06:57:13 AM
So after my first listen, I thought the album was great (and one of the best sounding DT albums), but very difficult to compare to the other DT albums due to how different this really is for them. I was quite impressed at how every single piece was distinct and neccesary, though I would've liked longer tracks with multiple plot points progressing through dynamic ~10 min songs that work better on their own than something like 'A Tempting Offer', which is well executed but too short IMO. Also, I'd rather they'd left the sound effects out completely and let the music itself interpret them. Even if I think SfaM works better at this stage due to a hightened tension and energy as well as a more symbolic story, TA works in its own Rock Opera way. My dad was a bit disappointed though, he's more of a metalhead and you can imagine that he wasn't really catered to on this album, but he did respect the effort that went into it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mc7 on January 30, 2016, 07:31:27 AM
Just started listening to the The Astonishing download - the CD has not yet arrived! Straight out of the blocks it is awesome with the Dystopian Overture (one of the best DT album intros). 1:46 - 2:00 = an incredible feat in sound mixing, imo  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ZKX-2099 on January 30, 2016, 07:33:16 AM
Yeah the album is awesome. It complements a great mood as well. Great happy music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: commanderbob on January 30, 2016, 07:47:45 AM
This is a musically sad day. New Dream Theater Day has always been like a major holiday for me and very exciting to listen to the album in full with headphones on or in the car, nice and loud. It's been this way for over 20 years. This is the first one that's come along that's just sort of........meh. The frustrating thing are that there MOMENTS of absolute brilliance in every track, and James is literally the best I've ever heard him sing, but it just doesn't fit together very well. And I don't think that the story is very interesting, or told very compellingly. I'm sure that after a few listens that a few tracks will stand out, like Moment of Betrayal and the Gift of Music. But mostly the vocal lines are too ponderous and obvious to me, and there is a LOT of singing.

So in total, a sad musical day for me. Many moment of the usual utter brilliance, but to reference Lord of the Rings, it's too little butter scraped over too much bread. In future concerts, I would certainly enjoy a 15 minute suite of all of the great stuff played together.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on January 30, 2016, 08:04:08 AM
I would rather see DT try something different than do what everybody wants DT to do.  People are so self important when it comes to their career. I hope their continue to strive for different.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Marion Crane on January 30, 2016, 08:11:10 AM
I like the link with all of the song descriptions, but in there somewhere online I can see all of the lyrics?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 30, 2016, 08:21:10 AM
I like the link with all of the song descriptions, but in there somewhere online I can see all of the lyrics?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw98b2EOpWbQb3BoRzZWOE5QNFU/view
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Marion Crane on January 30, 2016, 08:22:01 AM
Awesome thanks!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 30, 2016, 08:26:26 AM
I would rather see DT try something different than do what everybody wants DT to do.  People are so self important when it comes to their career. I hope their continue to strive for different.

While it's looking more likely this isn't going to rank highly for me overall, I'm still happy they got so invested in an idea and did something very different for themselves.
The songs I like, I love, and can see myself listening to in future unlike anything from ADTOE and DT12, because they're different and unique. And sure, there are plenty of misses for me, but when you do something different, you're not going to please everyone. I'm fine with that. I hope that come next album, they continue to evolve and try new ideas, and maybe those ones will be more to my tastes.
But I won't criticize them for doing what they want and keeping it fresh.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on January 30, 2016, 08:31:02 AM
I am perfectly fine with JLB doing all of the vocals and characters.  Given that he has appeared on an Ayreon album, having different vocalists for each character would have given it too much of a feel like that project.

Which is why I suggested DT not release it under the DT banner in my original post that was only partially quoted.  If it was only two or three characters, ok.  But eight is too many to distinguish.  That's a big reason Ayreon and Avantasia are so digestable.

You keep saying eight, but it's actually six, because one is dead and has no lines, while the other has 4 lines and it's all screaming. The only problems I have are distinguishing Daryus/Nafaryus, and figuring out when Arabelle is talking
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: commanderbob on January 30, 2016, 08:35:17 AM
I forgot to mention in my previous comments, that regardless of my opinion of the entire album, Our New World is utter perfection from beginning to end and easily fits into the Pantheon Of Great Dream Theater Songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: senecadawg2 on January 30, 2016, 08:41:07 AM
I feel like it hasn't been discussed as much as some other songs (New Beginning, Three Days, Act of Faythe and Our New World in particular), but surely I'm not the only one really fond of A Better Life. One of the stronger vocal performances, in my opinion, and probably my favorite song overall so far.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: metrojam on January 30, 2016, 08:41:42 AM
I would rather see DT try something different than do what everybody wants DT to do.  People are so self important when it comes to their career. I hope their continue to strive for different.

While it's looking more likely this isn't going to rank highly for me overall, I'm still happy they got so invested in an idea and did something very different for themselves.
The songs I like, I love, and can see myself listening to in future unlike anything from ADTOE and DT12, because they're different and unique. And sure, there are plenty of misses for me, but when you do something different, you're not going to please everyone. I'm fine with that. I hope that come next album, they continue to evolve and try new ideas, and maybe those ones will be more to my tastes.
But I won't criticize them for doing what they want and keeping it fresh.

Very good and sensible post, to which I concur totally. TA really isn't going to rank very high at all with me either as it is too lightweight for my preferences and as for that damn piano!!!...................BUT as I have also said, full marks to the band for doing something different and something they clearly wanted to do and I hope it is a success for them. I'm sure that a lot of people are going to really like it and as for the likes of me and others who aren't so keen, we will just have to wait another couple of years or so until the next one and hope its more to our liking when it comes out.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on January 30, 2016, 08:50:11 AM
In which moments can I hear Richard Chycki's speaking as Lord Nafaryus?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 30, 2016, 08:55:10 AM
In which moments can I hear Richard Chycki's speaking as Lord Nafaryus?

Where was this mentioned?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chego_voice on January 30, 2016, 08:56:54 AM
so... nobody hear SFAM references?..


...OK!

(Slam the door)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 30, 2016, 08:59:48 AM
I used that google drive link last night to read the lyrics on my first spin through the album, very helpful, especially since some douche glued my booklet to the CD case..
I thought the album went from too tense to too happy after Arhys died, I sorta excepted a bitter sweet ending where liberation does come but with more sacrifices and blood, I wonder if JP made a conscience decision to keep it PG13ish.
I did shed a tear when Arhys died though. Up until he died, especially after planning to give up Gabriel, I thought a big reveal might be a Metropolis connection but there definitely isn't a connection IMO.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on January 30, 2016, 09:00:22 AM
Finally heard it! Dystopian Overture was great, familiar DT territory introducing all the themes, The Gift of Music set the mood already for the story that is to come... So much melody, so many awesome moments from James, I totally love the approach they had with the style of the album! At first I didn't feel the burden of the many slow songs, then after a bit the listening experience was getting a bit hard since there is too much to absorb in one sitting... but well, that's what repeated listenings are for  ;)

The first impression is very good, it didn't blow me away as the first listening of SFAM did but I'm confident this will happen when I will finally have gotten my head around the whole enormous body of work. I'm happy DT wanted to do something so grandiose and daring!  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 30, 2016, 09:00:29 AM
In which moments can I hear Richard Chycki's speaking as Lord Nafaryus?

Where was this mentioned?

The booklet, but I didn't notice it while listening.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: goo-goo on January 30, 2016, 09:01:38 AM
In which moments can I hear Richard Chycki's speaking as Lord Nafaryus?

Where was this mentioned?

Booklet, on the credits

EDIT: Ninaj'd/Myung'd  :D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on January 30, 2016, 09:03:47 AM
I admittedly glossed over quite a few pages of this thread - too many to go through once I got home last night - but does anyone absolutely adore The Answer?  That is one of the best songs under two minutes I've ever heard.  Gorgeous little piece of music. :tup :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chrisbDTM on January 30, 2016, 09:03:56 AM
Listening to the album became very tedious for me at times. Way too many James/Jordan interludes for me. There are parts I like very much but I felt like I there's a lot of time in between those parts
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 30, 2016, 09:04:52 AM
In which moments can I hear Richard Chycki's speaking as Lord Nafaryus?

Where was this mentioned?

The booklet, but I didn't notice it while listening.

Ah cool. If it's what I'm thinking, it's not on the album.

Given that the album is so close to the maximum length of a CD, does anyone else suspect they may have had to trim to get it down to length? I wonder if the outro solo of A New Beginning got faded out out of necessity? Maybe it's nothing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: senecadawg2 on January 30, 2016, 09:06:10 AM
I admittedly glossed over quite a few pages of this thread - too many to go through once I got home last night - but does anyone absolutely adore The Answer?  That is one of the best songs under two minutes I've ever heard.  Gorgeous little piece of music. :tup :tup

Agreed. Less is more, in this case.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 30, 2016, 09:07:19 AM
Yeah that's what someone was saying in the New Beginning thread, valid reason to trim except there were other places they could have trimmed IMO, they picked on the few "rockin'" moments to trim..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 30, 2016, 09:09:35 AM
Yeah that's what someone was saying in the New Beginning thread, valid reason to trim except there were other places they could have trimmed IMO, they picked on the few "rockin'" moments to trim..

While it was rockin', it also wasn't absolutely necessary, as a lot of other moments were. It's like cutting a movie. While a scene may be a cool moment, if it's not necessary to tell the overall story, it's one of the first to go. It's just so close to 80 minutes that I reckon they had to trim a second here and there to the maximum they were allowed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on January 30, 2016, 09:12:04 AM
I admittedly glossed over quite a few pages of this thread - too many to go through once I got home last night - but does anyone absolutely adore The Answer?  That is one of the best songs under two minutes I've ever heard.  Gorgeous little piece of music. :tup :tup

Agreed. Less is more, in this case.

For sure. And I love the fact that the songs actually begins and ends, instead of segueing from or to another song, making it a great standalone song.  :coolio

Edit: I guess it technically it does segue into A Better Life, but that is more of a crossfade than an actual segue.  I think y'all know what I mean.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 30, 2016, 09:23:31 AM
It's like Metallica fading out The Outlaw Torn on Load because it went over 80 minutes by 30 seconds.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 30, 2016, 09:28:36 AM
The one elephant in the room here is that the ballads and slow songs are often just not very good......   if there were a bunch of "beneath the Surfaces, Waits for sleep, Anna Lees, or Dissappear's I don't think people would be complaining quite as much.    They really do often come off as filler and just a means to tell the story.  Although i do think a true metalhead would really struggle with this album regardless of how good the ballads were.

Its tough to stomach a 55 year old man singing disney songs despite how beautiful many of them are.   I wish they would have gone for less sappy and more mystical on their ballads.

Going through the tracklist this could have been a spectacular 15 track album.   

So that means we got about 15 great new DT songs so I am ecstatic but overall it sounds like a 34 song album that needed to be edited down a bit.

With all that said I have it ranked around 5th for DT which means it dethrones FII and I NEVER thought any of the classic era DT albums would get dethroned.  So despite some of my complaints I am a truly satisfied customer and fan.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 30, 2016, 09:31:22 AM
Also, I noticed a drop-off in quality in Act 2 on my first listen, almost like it reached the point of tedium since the songs all seemed to have a similar vibe, but we'll see if I still think after a few more listens (which only takes many more hours :lol :lol).  I disagree with anyone who says this album doesn't have songs, though.  Tons of really good ones in Act 1.

My thoughts exactly. Act 2 is growing on me though. Also, I love JLB and I'm fine with him doing all the vocals but I just can't hear him changing characters. At all.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on January 30, 2016, 09:33:57 AM
 

Going through the tracklist this could have been a spectacular 15 track album.   

So that means we got about 15 great new DT songs so I am ecstatic but overall it sounds like a 34 song album that needed to be edited down a bit.
 

After two listens now, I think I agree with this.  It's just so damn long, and I thought the middle of Act 2 was a bit tedious. Nothing that was bad at all, but there is a little run of songs that just seem kind of there (beginning with The Walking Shadow).  Most of Act 1 seems pretty great and Act 2 does have a few standouts.  That is my thought process right now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 30, 2016, 09:35:03 AM
Could they have told the entire story on one single CD though? Or did the story warrant a double CD?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: EraVulgaris on January 30, 2016, 09:35:42 AM
The frustrating thing are that there MOMENTS of absolute brilliance in every track, and James is literally the best I've ever heard him sing, but it just doesn't fit together very well.

Yeah, this is something that also came to me during my third or fourth listen. There are a lot of really cool moments on this album and I keep thinking "Man, can you imagine if they used those ideas in a more regular album format?". There is a lot of cool stuff in there, it's just the general structure of the record and the amount of story driven tracks that really prevents me from enjoying it. The whole thing feels incredibly bloated to me. Maybe I'll try to extract the key songs and try to construct a shorter playlist for "general listening"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: senecadawg2 on January 30, 2016, 09:38:55 AM
The one elephant in the room here is that the ballads and slow songs are often just not very good......   if there were a bunch of "beneath the Surfaces, Waits for sleep, Anna Lees, or Dissappear's I don't think people would be complaining quite as much.    They really do often come off as filler and just a means to tell the story.  Although i do think a true metalhead would really struggle with this album regardless of how good the ballads were.

Its tough to stomach a 55 year old man singing disney songs despite how beautiful many of them are.   I wish they would have gone for less sappy and more mystical on their ballads.

Going through the tracklist this could have been a spectacular 15 track album.   

So that means we got about 15 great new DT songs so I am ecstatic but overall it sounds like a 34 song album that needed to be edited down a bit.

With all that said I have it ranked around 5th for DT which means it dethrones FII and I NEVER thought any of the classic era DT albums would get dethroned.  So despite some of my complaints I am a truly satisfied customer and fan.

I'd be shocked if they ever wrote a ballad that satisfied me as much as Disappear or Wait for Sleep, in the future. With that being said, I thought most of the ballads were solid enough and some really great.

If it's a bit bloated, as you seem to be suggesting and as I would agree, I think it's not so much about the ballads as it is of an overly ambitious project and getting caught up world building. I love that they really 'went for it' and tried something new here and forgive any tediousness and length issues for that reason alone, but I think you're right in that it definitely could've been trimmed in several places.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Outcrier on January 30, 2016, 09:57:02 AM
When Your Time Has Come intro reminds me of the one from Solitary Shell, not the melody, but the overall vibe (uplifting synth line over acoustic guitars).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 30, 2016, 09:57:10 AM
Day 1: "WOAH OMG THIS IS AWESOME!!!"

Day 2: "It's too long", "Too many ballads", "Not enough metal"

Boy, that escalated quickly...  :facepalm:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Viking of the Sagas on January 30, 2016, 10:00:25 AM
That's just natural. The more we listen to this, the more we begin to discover of its contents - whether bad or good.

I personally think that this is their strongest studio album since Octavarium.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Viking of the Sagas on January 30, 2016, 10:01:17 AM
woops, double post!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chrisbDTM on January 30, 2016, 10:03:33 AM
I'm happy that a lot of people do like it. But I'm pretty disappointed. Hats off to anyone who can listen to this in one go, I simply couldn't do it. I found myself going, AGAIN?!? Every time they broke to a piano and vocals part just to chew up some story
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 30, 2016, 10:04:05 AM
I gotta say the last two notes of The Decent of The NOMACs are EXACTLY what I thought the NOMAC would sound like before the album came out :lol
I can just imagine the floors of the venue trembling at that noise before the band comes in for the overture it will be a lot like Dream Collapsing/Bridges from the ADToE tour.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 30, 2016, 10:06:32 AM
I have a musical question that bothers me

Does the tune from 3:25-3:41 in Dystopian Overture reappear somewhere in the album or am I just imagining it?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on January 30, 2016, 10:08:02 AM
I have only listened one time with the lyrics and pne time through to The X-aspect with the https://dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks synopsis in front of me.

Need to listen more.... but it seems that I will put this album quite high in their discography.

Love the overture... think the nomac tracks add a nice vibe to the story.
So far I have a hard time picking out tracks.

But it is an album you really need to sit down and listen too with your full attention.

So glad that they did something really different this time.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 30, 2016, 10:08:30 AM
I have a musical question that bothers me

Does the tune from 3:25-3:41 in Dystopian Overture reappear somewhere in the album or am I just imagining it?

A New Beginning for one. It also appears in a few other spots.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Outcrier on January 30, 2016, 10:08:41 AM
I have a musical question that bothers me

Does the tune from 3:25-3:41 in Dystopian Overture reappear somewhere in the album or am I just imagining it?

Yeah, it's A New Beginning.

EDIT: Ninjad by Blob van, damn...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 30, 2016, 10:09:49 AM
Thought I'd heard it. Thanks
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on January 30, 2016, 10:10:42 AM
I gotta say the last two notes of The Decent of The NOMACs are EXACTLY what I thought the NOMAC would sound like before the album came out :lol
I can just imagine the floors of the venue trembling at that noise before the band comes in for the overture it will be a lot like Dream Collapsing/Bridges from the ADToE tour.

Kinda like when there was the siren before The Root of All Evil during the Octavarium tour... but more intense!

I can already imagine the song playing with curtains closed, too bad that usually curtains in theaters do open on the sides, they should actually fall down the moment Dystopian Overture begins...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cream theater on January 30, 2016, 10:12:16 AM
Wow I put this  album on, with earphones and began cleaning the house.  It's been transformed into the cleanest its ever been.  Astonishing. 
Where's the Heaven's Cove appreciation?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wideworldofmike on January 30, 2016, 10:13:49 AM
Could they have told the entire story on one single CD though? Or did the story warrant a double CD?

They could have done 3 CD's if they had jammed a bit more. Any less than 2 CD's and we just wouldn't have gotten the DT soul injected in there, not enough room for detail.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TempusVox on January 30, 2016, 10:14:20 AM
PEOPLE OF DTF....

This is not a conventional record. This is unlike anything you have ever heard DT do before, ever. It is a ROCK OPERA.

A rock opera is a work of rock music that presents a storyline told over multiple parts, songs or sections; however, it is not an opera. A rock opera differs from a conventional rock album, which usually includes songs that are not unified by a common theme or narrative. It is even unlike a "concept album". SFaM was a concept album. This is not. So, when you think that "it's only fragments of songs", you would in fact be partially correct, because it is told in that vein as part of the narrative. Why? Because it is a ROCK OPERA.

Now, you don't have to like it. You may in fact hate it. But it is a ROCK OPERA done by the band, which again...is like NOTHING they have ever done in the past.

I know some of you still won't get this, but at least I hope this can put the record into perspective for some of you before you go trashing it or the band.

 :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 30, 2016, 10:14:28 AM
Thought I'd heard it. Thanks

I call it the West Side Story section :D It's great.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wideworldofmike on January 30, 2016, 10:19:08 AM
Thought I'd heard it. Thanks

I call it the West Side Story section :D It's great.

No-macs zoom in Ah-Mer-I-Ca...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on January 30, 2016, 10:20:21 AM
PEOPLE OF DTF....

This is not a conventional record. This is unlike anything you have ever heard DT do before, ever. It is a ROCK OPERA.

A rock opera is a work of rock music that presents a storyline told over multiple parts, songs or sections; however, it is not an opera. A rock opera differs from a conventional rock album, which usually includes songs that are not unified by a common theme or narrative. It is even unlike a "concept album". So, when you think that "it's only fragments of songs", you would in fact be partially correct, because it is told in that vein as part of the narrative. Why? Because it is a ROCK OPERA.

Now, you don't have to like it. You may in fact hate it. But it is a ROCK OPERA done by the band, which again...is like NOTHING they have ever done in the past.

I know some of you still won't get this, but at least I hope this can put the record into perspective for some of you before you go trashing it or the band.

 :metal

I agree, of course people have the right to not like it if it's not something that appeals to their tastes, but everyone should get in the right frame of mind in approaching this record, and fully knowing what they're going into. Then if they won't like it, fine of course, but this album deserves a chance with a big open mind! ...and also a lot of free time, dehehe!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ErHaO on January 30, 2016, 10:25:23 AM
It definately took me some time to get hold of the many softer parts during this album. But really, nearly every song is quite different in the end in my opinion. Two piano ballads are not necesarily more samish than two regular DT metal tracks. But DT (offcourse) has a lot of metal fans and it is totally understandable they are not all over this due to the musical direction they took here. Still, I see some prog-orientated people saying the same about DT's heavy side at times, which I also understand ("generic heavy DT" See criticisms on BC&SL or TOT, for example). I am generally more of a fan of DT's metal side , but to my surprise I am really loving this one.

That said, I will probably listen to 40-minute chunks of this work instead of the whole thing in the future (I saw some people dividing it as three acts, I can see that working for me). I rarely listen to double albums in one row though (I often treat them as several acts/ episodes of series, so to say). My biggest gripe is that the ending does miss a little bit of power/epicness to it, while I like the music itself. I absolutely love disc 1, disc 2 drags a bit near the end. But thankfully the "negartives" for this album are more like missed oppertunities than elements I dislike.

When I first heard TA, I kind of felt the same feeling I had with Ayreons Theory of Everything. While presented as 4 tracks and most tracks weave in to each other, in the end that album often feels like many shorter pieces. I had to digest that one as well. Each time I listen to TA, I am loving it more.

Finally, why are people saying Myung cannot be heard? I can hear him pretty often, also during heavier parts. And I am not exactly listening high end now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erciccio on January 30, 2016, 10:30:40 AM
After 4-5 spins I have an internal clash of opinions.  :metal >:( :metal >:(

The rational-me thinks that if you just take it just as a normal CD, it is almost un-listenable.

The romantic-teen-in-me,on the other side, really loves this Disney-Broadway-esque version of Dream Theater!
There are at least 20-30 sections that made laugh and cry like a baby...

Overall, they both agree that is an high-quality product (and I heard no complaints on the quality of the sound so far...) but it's a take it or leave it.

And probably the live concerts will further consolidate the opposite opinions....

One thing is for sure- I will never ever admit I love this CD in front on my "true metal warriors"-kind'a friends..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on January 30, 2016, 10:31:17 AM
Eh, to me, if you are listening to DT just for the metal or just for the prog, you are missing out.  As a DT fan, you should at least appreciate the way they blend it all together, regardless of whether one album heavily leans one way or the other.  Heck, I am not a big metal guy, and am much more of a prog fan, yet Awake (easily one of their three heaviest records) is my favorite, while Octavarium (one of their proggiest) is one of my least favorites.  It's never an exact science.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: home on January 30, 2016, 10:49:52 AM
I have listened to it twice so far, and I love it. It's great that they did something different than the previous two albums, which was really neccesary I think. The lyrics got me a lot more after reading the story (which is super cliché I know) I really love the music, it's melodic and the sound is great, I like how they've use real bagpipes etc, and the piano sounds amazing. Three days and Lord Nefaryous are my favorits so far, Labrie really shines on both tracks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dreamtheater360 on January 30, 2016, 11:00:20 AM
I've probably listened to the whole thing about 4-5 times. If anything, I love it now than my first couple of listens. I'm loving the rock opera feel to it. I applaud them for making an album like this. I personally don't think there are too many ballads, and I really don't see any of the songs as filler. Every change is musical style seems to fit where it needs to be to show the characters and tell the story. I like it, cheese and all.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on January 30, 2016, 11:06:21 AM
Wow I put this  album on, with earphones and began cleaning the house.  It's been transformed into the cleanest its ever been.  Astonishing. 
Where's the Heaven's Cove appreciation?

I just had an awesome workout listening at the gym.  This cd will demand several listens.  I like the idea of breaking it into sections when listening.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheGreatPretender on January 30, 2016, 11:09:27 AM
Wow I put this  album on, with earphones and began cleaning the house.  It's been transformed into the cleanest its ever been.  Astonishing. 
Where's the Heaven's Cove appreciation?

I just had an awesome workout listening at the gym.  This cd will demand several listens.  I like the idea of breaking it into sections when listening.

Oh yeah, several listens are a must. So does it really work well for a workout? Or was it just the sheer idea of the new DT album that pumped you up and excited you? Lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 30, 2016, 11:09:30 AM
Damn, everytime I listen to Lord Nafaryus. I can't help but imagine Diablo Swing Orchestra (I know I said this a lot). But, it's true.

I love Evangeline's theme in A Better Life.  The choir sounds ethereal.

I have so much to say. I guess I'll gather my thoughts and report back.

I knew I'd enjoy this album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Duke1 on January 30, 2016, 11:13:58 AM
Really enjoyed listening to this. Fantastic album, very, very well done.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 30, 2016, 11:21:54 AM
I have no problem with an album full of ballads.. I just want them to be good ballads.  Of course this is more than just ballads but I'm just making the point that an album full of ballads can be great if they are all good.  Jesus Christ superstar is a rock opera and I personally don't hear any filler tracks. 

I will say that the more I immerse myself in the story the sappy ballads are more enjoyable.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on January 30, 2016, 11:26:59 AM
Still too much to take in for me to really draw any definitive conclusions, other than generalizations.  I definitely like this.  Where it will ultimately fall in my album rankings in the DT pantheon, I have no idea.  Far too early to tell. 

Just a few comments:

-I popped disk 2 into my 5.1 system while doing some stuff around the house this morning, and...just...  :omg:  MAN, this album sounds fantastic! 

-Moment of Betrayal:  I heard the song a bunch of times before getting the album, both because of the official release and because it was one of the 9 songs on the promo.  I liked it right off the bat.  But hearing it in context of the album, right after 2285 Entr'Acte, it really has a huge emotional impact.

-The scream:  This is the only part of the album where I feel like they kind of "dropped the ball" on presenting the story.  That scream is supposed to be something huge.  And while James does it justice with his voice, this is the one area where I feel like some vocal effects were necessary to portray it as something truly otherworldly that deafened Daryus.  Oh well.

Lots I could say about the rest of the songs, but not now.  I think I may rip this to my phone and take a bike ride to let some of it soak in on the road.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: NunoTenniscourt on January 30, 2016, 11:27:10 AM
PEOPLE OF DTF....

This is not a conventional record. This is unlike anything you have ever heard DT do before, ever. It is a ROCK OPERA.

A rock opera is a work of rock music that presents a storyline told over multiple parts, songs or sections; however, it is not an opera. A rock opera differs from a conventional rock album, which usually includes songs that are not unified by a common theme or narrative. It is even unlike a "concept album". SFaM was a concept album. This is not. So, when you think that "it's only fragments of songs", you would in fact be partially correct, because it is told in that vein as part of the narrative. Why? Because it is a ROCK OPERA.

Now, you don't have to like it. You may in fact hate it. But it is a ROCK OPERA done by the band, which again...is like NOTHING they have ever done in the past.

I know some of you still won't get this, but at least I hope this can put the record into perspective for some of you before you go trashing it or the band.

 :metal

Yeah, I find myself baffled by a lot of what I'm hearing from those who don't like it. They wanted something "new", and here it is, yet I hear/see thing like "I wish it was more like (insert past album title here)"

We can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on January 30, 2016, 11:29:35 AM
I think James should have screamed like he did at BMU,BMD or Octavarium live (OctavariiiioouuuuuuuuuuUuUmMMM)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pax on January 30, 2016, 11:42:12 AM
I haven't been discussing here, so I have two questions:

Is it figured out what those eyes on NOMAC on theastonishing site do? Also, what's that second video? xD
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on January 30, 2016, 11:45:32 AM
There is not second video...yet.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theanalogkid7 on January 30, 2016, 11:49:08 AM
There is not second video...yet.

I guess we'll see... yes, we shall see.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: olddtfan51@gmail.com on January 30, 2016, 11:52:08 AM
I think this is the best Album I have heard in a long time.It's completely different from anything they have done. The story keeps me interested and the music is great. I know it's a lot to take in but I think that is what will make it good for repeted listens. There will always be something new to find. :tup :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 30, 2016, 11:58:45 AM
In which moments can I hear Richard Chycki's speaking as Lord Nafaryus?
I guess its in Losing Faythe. You can hear a man and women cry in the first line, it must be Nafaryus & Arabelle  :huh:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: adastra on January 30, 2016, 12:05:54 PM
Music calmed your soul just lika a drug
Remember bug?

Father is it true
Bug was always you?

What is Bug :D is it Lord Nafaryus's band or sumthing... i'm so lost...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YOWspotter on January 30, 2016, 12:06:57 PM
I didn't read the entire thread and I don't yet have the record. I'm curious though; given that I'm more a fan of DT's heavier, metal aspects, will this record do anything for me?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 30, 2016, 12:07:41 PM
Music calmed your soul just lika a drug
Remember bug?

Father is it true
Bug was always you?

What is Bug :D is it Lord Nafaryus's band or sumthing... i'm so lost...

Bug was Nafaryus' nickname as a boy.

"As a very young boy, Nafaryus was always zipping in and out of the palace halls and buzzing around his father's feet trying to get the busy Emperor's attention (hence the nickname ‘BUG')" / from the Astonishing site.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoadTrain_of Thought on January 30, 2016, 12:08:18 PM
Music calmed your soul just lika a drug
Remember bug?

Father is it true
Bug was always you?

What is Bug :D is it Lord Nafaryus's band or sumthing... i'm so lost...

It is all explained in the website. BUG is Daddy Naf's nickname given to him by his father.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on January 30, 2016, 12:08:48 PM
Music calmed your soul just lika a drug
Remember bug?

Father is it true
Bug was always you?

What is Bug :D is it Lord Nafaryus's band or sumthing... i'm so lost...

His childhood nickname. I got confused as well at first.

I didn't read the entire thread and I don't yet have the record. I'm curious though; given that I'm more a fan of DT's heavier, metal aspects, will this record do anything for me?

If you aren't a fan of the ballads or poppier songs at all, probably not much. Listen to it though, you may like it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 30, 2016, 12:11:01 PM
I am in the camp of people who wanted something different as I think they went majorly downhill after train of thought.  However, it's not fair to question the people who are critiquing the album and just because dream theater went out on a limb and did something unique doesn't make it void of constructive critiquing.

With that said, I think it's an incredibly refreshing album and by far the best thing they have done since Sdoit.  I don't think it's as brilliantly tight at sfam due to a few too many mediocre ballads.  It's a beautiful yet flawed album that does reveal its many qualities upon repeat listens.  It far exceeded my lofty expectations despite it being a bit too long and having somewhat disjointed and rushed finish on act 2.

I love the album but I think many of the criticisms are fair.  Act 1 is incredible though.  I am hoping act 2 just takes some more time to grow.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: adastra on January 30, 2016, 12:13:22 PM
But i don't understand this bit;

"Father is it true
Bug was always you?"

Where had Faythe heard about bug? :D   I first understood that Faythe was listening to music made by BUG with the Ipod she had found.
And she was suprised that BUG was his father.

EDIT: oh.... I read the website... The music player belonged to Bug
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 30, 2016, 12:19:05 PM
But i don't understand this bit;

"Father is it true
Bug was always you?"

Where had Faythe heard about bug? :D   I first understood that Faythe was listening to music made by BUG with the Ipod she had found.
And she was suprised that BUG was his father.

Again, from the Astonishing site.

"It had a strange engraving on the back that simply said, “To BUG”. She didn't know what it meant but that never mattered to her."

https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YOWspotter on January 30, 2016, 12:19:20 PM
Quote
If you aren't a fan of the ballads or poppier songs at all, probably not much. Listen to it though, you may like it.
I appreciate the info. I intend on buying the record regardless, but this sets me up nicely. I love the ballads, the pop stuff a bit less, but I should be OK with this one.
Title: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH
Post by: LCArenas on January 30, 2016, 12:38:02 PM
There's a scream at the end of "My Last Farewell" but I can't quite tell who's supposed to be screaming it. Is it Gabriel or Faythe?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wolven74 on January 30, 2016, 12:38:28 PM
So yesterday I listened to my first spin through the iTunes download of the album and loved the music, loved the emotion in James' vocals. Loved the melodies throughout. Listened more for the music than the story, as I had also ordered a "hardcopy" so I could have the lyrics in the booklet. I didn't have the lyrics until later in the day and didn't have time to give it another spin. I just finished my second spin all the way through--this time with lyrics. I have one question, given the context of the story: Did anyone else shed some tears during that ONW riff? Am I the only one? God that opening has got to be my favorite thing DT has ever done. Fucking beautiful. :metal

This album as a whole.... WOW... just fucking WOW!!  :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Title: Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH
Post by: RoadTrain_of Thought on January 30, 2016, 12:42:42 PM
There's a scream at the end of "My Last Farewell" but I can't quite tell who's supposed to be screaming it. Is it Gabriel or Faythe?

It's Gabriel. But once again LOOK AT THE GODDAMN SITE
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheCountOfNYC on January 30, 2016, 12:51:22 PM
I just finished listening to the album for the first time. :hefdaddy
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 30, 2016, 12:52:50 PM
Seriously, I know it's been said like 100 times, but...
READ THE SITE.
It answers so many questions and elaborates on a lot of things only briefly touched on in the lyrics. There's more information on each character as well so it really helps you understand everything. Read the site, listen again and if you're confused on something it will probably make sense at that point.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on January 30, 2016, 12:54:06 PM
The more I listen, the more I realize that this is definitely gonna be a "whole is better than the sum of its parts" kinda album.  That is not to say that there aren't some great songs here; there are.  But this is obviously meant to be listened to as a whole (Captain Obvious, I know :lol).  Even though I have the physical CDs, I already burned the whole thing on to one single CD for my car and plan to live with it for a while and just let it play from start to finish whenever I drive anywhere until I really know all of it. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 30, 2016, 12:59:41 PM
We should have a sticky to the astonishing page as too many  questions are being asked when it's available on the bands website.  Just a suggestion.

Gonna enjoy a nice glass of good whiskey and listen again.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wideworldofmike on January 30, 2016, 01:05:36 PM

-The scream:  This is the only part of the album where I feel like they kind of "dropped the ball" on presenting the story.  That scream is supposed to be something huge.  And while James does it justice with his voice, this is the one area where I feel like some vocal effects were necessary to portray it as something truly otherworldly that deafened Daryus.  Oh well.


I though about this too, but I think the irony would be that its a scream that's meant to damage his vocal cords, so JL may have opted to not damage his? Only explanation I could think of to spin it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on January 30, 2016, 01:12:56 PM

-The scream:  This is the only part of the album where I feel like they kind of "dropped the ball" on presenting the story.  That scream is supposed to be something huge.  And while James does it justice with his voice, this is the one area where I feel like some vocal effects were necessary to portray it as something truly otherworldly that deafened Daryus.  Oh well.


I though about this too, but I think the irony would be that its a scream that's meant to damage his vocal cords, so JL may have opted to not damage his? Only explanation I could think of to spin it.

Yeah, but then you have ''YOU MURDERER'', so I don't know.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: NoseofNicko on January 30, 2016, 01:16:31 PM
Btw, does this part from Dystopian Overture sound really familiar to anyone else:

https://vocaroo.com/i/s0WnqDoo2Pab (https://vocaroo.com/i/s0WnqDoo2Pab)

?

Anyone?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 30, 2016, 01:17:14 PM

-The scream:  This is the only part of the album where I feel like they kind of "dropped the ball" on presenting the story.  That scream is supposed to be something huge.  And while James does it justice with his voice, this is the one area where I feel like some vocal effects were necessary to portray it as something truly otherworldly that deafened Daryus.  Oh well.


I though about this too, but I think the irony would be that its a scream that's meant to damage his vocal cords, so JL may have opted to not damage his? Only explanation I could think of to spin it.
James wouldn't have to damage his, though. Like, they could use the same scream but just add effects to it to make it more powerful and dramatic.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: darkshade on January 30, 2016, 01:19:15 PM
Finishing up the second disc right now. Listened to disc 1 yesterday. I liked disc 2 more than disc 1 on first listen. The second disc is heavier, but it's all a lot of music so I definitely need more time with it. It's definitely more interesting to me than DT12, and I'll be likely to return to this more often. It seems like a grower, which is usually a good thing for DT. Not much of a fan of the lyrics, and I don't really care about the story, but I never cared about the story from SFAM either, so *shrugs*.

Anyone else feel like they're listening to a late-90s Flower Kings album when listening to The Astonishing, but with JP's chops, JLB vocals, and way heavier at times, but also has uplifting parts not very far away from how I could see TFK playing them; a nice 20+ minute epic at the end of disc 2 (like at the end of TFK's Stardust We Are) would have put this album over the top.

My only gripe is that I've slowly been disliking that Mangini-era guitar sound with Jordan's string sounds doubling them. It's all over this album, but isn't as bad as on DT12.

Illumination Theory tease at the beginning of disc 2 on 2285 Entr'acte???
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TL on January 30, 2016, 01:29:06 PM
Man, I'm glad I didn't bank on getting this on Canadian Amazon. They still don't have a listing outside of a $190 vinyl "Import".
It's almost comical how little of a shit Amazon gives about the Canadian market.

Edit: It's not even a question of 'obscurity'. They have a prominent listing for Steven Wilson's new thing in New Releases.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheGreatPretender on January 30, 2016, 01:35:48 PM
Man, I'm glad I didn't bank on getting this on Canadian Amazon. They still don't have a listing outside of a $190 vinyl "Import".
It's almost comical how little of a shit Amazon gives about the Canadian market.

Edit: It's not even a question of 'obscurity'. They have a prominent listing for Steven Wilson's new thing in New Releases.
Amazon is good for stuff that they already have lying around in their warehouse. I've had packages delivered to my door the day I ordered them, or on the weekends, but pre-ordering anything, you can flip a coin as to whether it will be delayed or not.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on January 30, 2016, 01:37:21 PM
I'm fine with DT staying away from satanic music like metal.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheGreatPretender on January 30, 2016, 01:39:19 PM
I'm fine with DT staying away from satanic music like metal.

Your sentence is like a prog song, you can spend all day dissecting it for which part is sarcastic and which isn't.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on January 30, 2016, 01:44:36 PM
 :lol :lol
Being serious again.
Probably my greatest issue with the album is 2285 entr'acte being way, waaay too short just for how good it is, and feeling more like an ending to the first CD than an intro to the second one.

Btw, it has a Lord of the Rings goes Nightmare before christmas War inside my head vibe,
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DeanTheater on January 30, 2016, 01:52:16 PM
What a bloody Brilliant effort!   I have listened through 2 times.   First impressions are that JLB totally OWNS!  JP has performed some of his most emotional yet technical stuff in a while.

Regarding, the middle of ACT 1,  I dont believe there have been a better stretch of songs on a DT album since maybe SDOIT.  A better Life, When you Time has come, Act of Faythe, Brother, Can you hear me, A Life Left Behind (possibly my favorite so far), into Ravenskill, (which from reading the posts is higly underrated thus far.  Ravenskill gave me goosies!.  Give this song some love, people!

An amazing effort, although, alot of work for the listener.   But, it is a labor fucking LOVE.  Great job DT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: craig1928 on January 30, 2016, 01:55:47 PM
biggest goosebumps moment?

for me it's the middle of astonishing when the drums back kick in

"Because of you I live again
Now I can be a voice for change"

ahhhh I love this album
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: OleMP on January 30, 2016, 02:03:27 PM
Yeah, I think I have to concur. Up until now he's merely been a disappointing reminder of what's lost. Now I'm considering him a detriment, despite perhaps being the most gifted one in an amazingly talented band.

I really don't want to harp on this too long, but yeah, I had the same thought when I was listening to the album. Especially for the softer sections, subtle, organic drumming would have been wondrous and added so much to the songs. But it just stays at the same "bup ... chick", the whole time.

Yes, because When Your Time Has Come and Act of Faythe has "bup...chick" drumming all over. Maybe I am just imagining all those ghost notes.

You are not imagining anything of course, but the Mangini haters/Portnoylovers aren't listening for anything else. It's getting to the point of being so ridiculous that I can't take any of them seriously anymore.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TL on January 30, 2016, 02:07:55 PM
Man, I'm glad I didn't bank on getting this on Canadian Amazon. They still don't have a listing outside of a $190 vinyl "Import".
It's almost comical how little of a shit Amazon gives about the Canadian market.

Edit: It's not even a question of 'obscurity'. They have a prominent listing for Steven Wilson's new thing in New Releases.
Amazon is good for stuff that they already have lying around in their warehouse. I've had packages delivered to my door the day I ordered them, or on the weekends, but pre-ordering anything, you can flip a coin as to whether it will be delayed or not.
That's my experience with pre-ordering from them as well.

In this case though, I mean they literally don't have a listing for this CD on their Canadian site. It's not just 'to be released' or 'out of stock'. It's not there at all. Fortunately, I decided to give my business to a local music shop instead.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Nel on January 30, 2016, 02:09:06 PM
Just bought the album. I haven't listened yet, but it's already a 0/10 for being a digipak.


 :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: metropofreak on January 30, 2016, 02:20:09 PM
I'm loving Mangini's double hi-hat work is some of the mellow sections, e.g., Losing Faythe. This album just kills! Incredible work.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on January 30, 2016, 02:24:09 PM
I'm a big fan of the album, but need to listen to it more. I probably have 4/5 listens under my belt at this point.

Some standouts for me:

Dystopian Overture
The Gift of Music
The Answer
Three Days
A Life Left Behind
Ravenskill
A New Beginning
Moment of Betrayal
Begin Again (mostly that outro)
The Path That Divides
The Walking Shadow
My Last Farewell
Our New World

JLB killed it on this album. And I must be one of the few people that was able to pick up on the subtleties of each character's parts based on how James' sang them. The only character I couldn't get immediately was Arabelle.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 30, 2016, 02:26:10 PM
I feel Myung isn't getting enough credit. He's in the groove, much like Mangini is in the beat. That's how a Bass and Drum duo should be.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 30, 2016, 02:30:57 PM
I'm loving Mangini's double hi-hat work is some of the mellow sections, e.g., Losing Faythe. This album just kills! Incredible work.
The double hi-hat work is one of the things I love most about MM's playing in general.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on January 30, 2016, 02:40:20 PM
Even though this is not a 5.1 cd, I put the second disc in my player, found the setting I liked and cranked it.  The dog was not too fond of the nomac tracks.  They were freaking her out.  Also, the bass was so loud a box fell off the amp and scared the shit out her.
The sound was amazing and you could really hear that bass. I was in a rather large bonus room and I kind of got a feel of what this may sound like live.

For those that have only listened to once, give it another go.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DreamerTV on January 30, 2016, 02:48:24 PM
I don't want to say that much right now apart an honorable mention to Ravenskill for having one of the most intense climax in a Dt song, ever.

All in all very strong melodies spread throughout the whole album.
Let's hope the Double Album curse won't strike Dt again, like what happened after SDOIT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ErHaO on January 30, 2016, 02:49:13 PM
I feel Myung isn't getting enough credit. He's in the groove, much like Mangini is in the beat. That's how a Bass and Drum duo should be.

I agree. I can often clearly hear him on this album, which I wasn't expecting at all. Mangini's playing fits the music really well, I do not have a problem with the drum sound/"perfect" technical playing personally.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pax on January 30, 2016, 02:50:15 PM
That scream was Gabriel's? I thought it was Daryus' scream because of the pain in the ears... If it's Gabriel's, then it really sucks lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on January 30, 2016, 02:53:30 PM
I don't want to say that much right now apart an honorable mention to Ravenskill for having one of the most intense climax in a Dt song, ever.

All in all very strong melodies spread throughout the whole album.
Let's hope the Double Album curse won't strike Dt again, like what happened after SDOIT.

What exactly is this curse? The two albums they released after SDOIT were some of their best.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on January 30, 2016, 03:00:39 PM
I feel Myung isn't getting enough credit. He's in the groove, much like Mangini is in the beat. That's how a Bass and Drum duo should be.

I agree. I can often clearly hear him on this album, which I wasn't expecting at all. Mangini's playing fits the music really well, I do not have a problem with the drum sound/"perfect" technical playing personally.

^^This. The bit that springs to mind is the outro of A New Beginning. JM/MM locking in a straight-ahead beat with JP's almost ad-libbed sounding solo bouncing around over the top. Very cool.
It will be interesting to see how they handle the fade-out live..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 30, 2016, 03:02:24 PM
Could they have told the entire story on one single CD though? Or did the story warrant a double CD?

They could have done 3 CD's if they had jammed a bit more. Any less than 2 CD's and we just wouldn't have gotten the DT soul injected in there, not enough room for detail.

Actually I think 3 CDs would have been perfect, it would have allowed them to balance the narrative:music ratio more fairly and satisfactory for the fans who are taken aback by the lack of DT feel.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Awaken on January 30, 2016, 03:07:14 PM
I don't want to say that much right now apart an honorable mention to Ravenskill for having one of the most intense climax in a Dt song, ever.



Strongly agree
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cedar redaC on January 30, 2016, 03:07:49 PM
Ok, having completed my first run through of the album, I love it. I like the more prominent role played by acoustic and orchestral instruments. It's a nice change of pace.

Can't wait to see it live!

Another CD would have been cool, but like some people say: "Always leave them wanting more"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: (nothing) on January 30, 2016, 03:14:14 PM
Oh lawd, coming from another forum it's so refreshing to see people who don't like the album not being total bass soles about it. Props!

As cheesy and "Disney-like" as it is, I personally quite like it. It's great for what it is, don't see why people compare to other stuff the whole time. If people go about it like they would when it comes to The Wall or even a Steven Wilson record (these days), they 're just setting themselves up to not like it.

If they pull it off in a live setting, it will make for such a great show.

Over time a few tracks might be filler material for me but can't complain at all because there are just so many good moments in there. "Chosen" is my personal favorite, I'm surprised it hasn't gotten as many honorable mentions in here. It's like the "Let It Go" of this album.  ;D

They took enough creative risks here (imo the biggest one being making this tour album-exclusive), at least you can't blame them for that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: serrano on January 30, 2016, 03:20:22 PM
I feel Myung isn't getting enough credit. He's in the groove, much like Mangini is in the beat. That's how a Bass and Drum duo should be.

I agree. I can often clearly hear him on this album, which I wasn't expecting at all. Mangini's playing fits the music really well, I do not have a problem with the drum sound/"perfect" technical playing personally.

^^This. The bit that springs to mind is the outro of A New Beginning. JM/MM locking in a straight-ahead beat with JP's almost ad-libbed sounding solo bouncing around over the top. Very cool.
It will be interesting to see how they handle the fade-out live..

Ihope for a JP extended solo section there with no fade out.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: goo-goo on January 30, 2016, 03:27:26 PM
Just bought the album. I haven't listened yet, but it's already a 0/10 for being a digipak.


 :P

and -10 for the booklet glued onto the digipack
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: onethousanddays on January 30, 2016, 03:28:54 PM
Count me among those who view The Astonishing as DT’s best work of the RR era, maybe even since Six Degrees.

BUT there seems to be some baffling editing mistakes in Act 1.

Does anyone else notice that glitch in Petrucci’s legato run at 2:38 in A Better Life?

Is this just me?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 30, 2016, 03:32:34 PM
It all depends on the Live show for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RuRoRul on January 30, 2016, 03:33:22 PM
Since we like lists and rankings, and it is quite difficult to say a lot about 30 songs after just a few listens, here's a preliminary top 10 to show my initial favourites (roughly in order):

Three Days
A New Beginning
The Gift Of Music
Moment Of Betrayal
The Path That Divides
A Better Life
Dystopian Overture
Lord Nafaryus
A Tempting Offer
The Walking Shadow

I'm not really feeling Our New World much... I see it is one of the favourites and I suppose I had quite high expectations for it from the few reviews / comments I read before the album came out.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on January 30, 2016, 03:37:17 PM
Ihope for a JP extended solo section there with no fade out.

Yes, that would be cool.  :tup
As mentioned previously in this thread, they may have had to fade that song out for reasons of making Act I fit on an 80 min CD. Obviously there wouldn't be the same restriction in a live show, so I can't wait to hear how they finish that one.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Crow on January 30, 2016, 03:41:19 PM
Could they have told the entire story on one single CD though? Or did the story warrant a double CD?

They could have done 3 CD's if they had jammed a bit more. Any less than 2 CD's and we just wouldn't have gotten the DT soul injected in there, not enough room for detail.

Actually I think 3 CDs would have been perfect, it would have allowed them to balance the narrative:music ratio more fairly and satisfactory for the fans who are taken aback by the lack of DT feel.
i would've actually preferred 3 CD's to two tbh because
1. the CD split is really lopsided as is
2. they probably had to cut down act 1 a bit to make it fit onto 1 CD
3. 80 minutes at once is still a loooong album even without the other 50 minutes of act 2
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: darkshade on January 30, 2016, 03:48:43 PM
To me, I could see splitting the album into 3. Halfway through disc 1, not sure where yet, and then disc 2 is short enough for a solid single listening session.

Would have been awesome if they stuck a big epic at the end, there's totally room for one. I wouldn't even care if it wasn't related to the concept/story.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on January 30, 2016, 03:48:56 PM
Wife is off with her friends for the afternoon!  You mean I get over two hours home alone to listen to this on my big stereo?  It's a freakin miracle!!!  Let the one-man listening party begin!  :metal :corn
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mebert78 on January 30, 2016, 03:49:31 PM
I'm listening to the YouTube stream on my big screen TV and I noticed some additional details in the artwork, such as the Majesty symbol on Nafaryus' shirt button! You can't see that on the website cause it's too small there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on January 30, 2016, 03:49:51 PM
Even though this is not a 5.1 cd, I put the second disc in my player, found the setting I liked and cranked it.  The dog was not too fond of the nomac tracks.  They were freaking her out.  Also, the bass was so loud a box fell off the amp and scared the shit out her.
The sound was amazing and you could really hear that bass. I was in a rather large bonus room and I kind of got a feel of what this may sound like live.

For those that have only listened to once, give it another go.
Ha!  My Dog reacts to the Nomac tracks too. She raises and turns her head sideways with wide open eyes and perked up ears..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on January 30, 2016, 03:51:19 PM
Count me among those who view The Astonishing as DT’s best work of the RR era, maybe even since Six Degrees.

BUT there seems to be some baffling editing mistakes in Act 1.

Does anyone else notice that glitch in Petrucci’s legato run at 2:38 in A Better Life?

Is this just me?

Played it a couple of times there, but couldn't hear anything strange???  :huh:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gm5k on January 30, 2016, 03:51:50 PM


Does anyone else notice that glitch in Petrucci’s legato run at 2:38 in A Better Life?

Is this just me?

Listened for it several times right now.  All I hear is an amazing legato run   :huh:

ninja'd by Logain  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RuRoRul on January 30, 2016, 03:52:39 PM
Could they have told the entire story on one single CD though? Or did the story warrant a double CD?

They could have done 3 CD's if they had jammed a bit more. Any less than 2 CD's and we just wouldn't have gotten the DT soul injected in there, not enough room for detail.

Actually I think 3 CDs would have been perfect, it would have allowed them to balance the narrative:music ratio more fairly and satisfactory for the fans who are taken aback by the lack of DT feel.
i would've actually preferred 3 CD's to two tbh because
1. the CD split is really lopsided as is
2. they probably had to cut down act 1 a bit to make it fit onto 1 CD
3. 80 minutes at once is still a loooong album even without the other 50 minutes of act 2
It could actually go into 3 parts quite nicely too, as it only really has 3 proper "events" (or "scenes"? :P) with the rest being setting up or character reactions to those:

Part 1 - Introduction and the meeting in the square (ends with Three Days)
Part 2 - Reaction to the meeting in the square, then the arrival of Faythe and Daryus in Ravenskill and the deals they attempt to strike there (ends with Road To Revolution, roughly)
Part 3 - The showdown at Heaven's Cove (essentially Act II as it is now)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on January 30, 2016, 03:53:09 PM
Wife is off with her friends for the afternoon!  You mean I get over two hours home alone to listen to this on my big stereo?  It's a freakin miracle!!!  Let the one-man listening party begin!  :metal :corn
Awesome!  The best way to listen to an album of this magnitude.. :hat
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DreamerTV on January 30, 2016, 03:54:56 PM
I don't want to say that much right now apart an honorable mention to Ravenskill for having one of the most intense climax in a Dt song, ever.

All in all very strong melodies spread throughout the whole album.
Let's hope the Double Album curse won't strike Dt again, like what happened after SDOIT.

What exactly is this curse? The two albums they released after SDOIT were some of their best.

The Double album curse comes from The Beatles White Album, and could actually have two meanings:

- following up to this giants usually come mediocre albums
- Double albums, as good ad they could be, are way too long to gain larger consensus than a band already has

It's really off topic to discuss here whether this actually happend to Dt after SDOIT, i just wanted to explain you what it did mean.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on January 30, 2016, 03:57:16 PM


Does anyone else notice that glitch in Petrucci’s legato run at 2:38 in A Better Life?

Is this just me?

Listened for it several times right now.  All I hear is an amazing legato run   :huh:

ninja'd by Logain  :lol

Ha!  :tup ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wolven74 on January 30, 2016, 03:58:20 PM
Here's hoping they do something special for a blu-ray release. A concert with just them playing it would be cool, but what if they went all out and did a full production, with actors playing the roles (as JLB sings their parts? hmmm) Maybe something along the lines of the Wall would be more feasible. At any rate, I do hope they decide to take it further than just an album. Even if it is possibly the best of their career.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on January 30, 2016, 04:01:11 PM
Wife is off with her friends for the afternoon!  You mean I get over two hours home alone to listen to this on my big stereo?  It's a freakin miracle!!!  Let the one-man listening party begin!  :metal :corn
Awesome!  The best way to listen to an album of this magnitude.. :hat

I'm looking at Google Maps to see if there is somewhere about an hour away that I really really need to drive to, to get this blasting in the car..  :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zoom E on January 30, 2016, 04:02:57 PM
Man, I'm glad I didn't bank on getting this on Canadian Amazon. They still don't have a listing outside of a $190 vinyl "Import".
It's almost comical how little of a shit Amazon gives about the Canadian market.

Edit: It's not even a question of 'obscurity'. They have a prominent listing for Steven Wilson's new thing in New Releases.
Amazon is good for stuff that they already have lying around in their warehouse. I've had packages delivered to my door the day I ordered them, or on the weekends, but pre-ordering anything, you can flip a coin as to whether it will be delayed or not.
That's my experience with pre-ordering from them as well.

In this case though, I mean they literally don't have a listing for this CD on their Canadian site. It's not just 'to be released' or 'out of stock'. It's not there at all. Fortunately, I decided to give my business to a local music shop instead.

I find this really strange. Amazon Canada really dropped the ball with this release. I had to pick up my copy at Wal-Mart, of all places.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on January 30, 2016, 04:08:24 PM
Could they have told the entire story on one single CD though? Or did the story warrant a double CD?

They could have done 3 CD's if they had jammed a bit more. Any less than 2 CD's and we just wouldn't have gotten the DT soul injected in there, not enough room for detail.

Actually I think 3 CDs would have been perfect, it would have allowed them to balance the narrative:music ratio more fairly and satisfactory for the fans who are taken aback by the lack of DT feel.
i would've actually preferred 3 CD's to two tbh because
1. the CD split is really lopsided as is
2. they probably had to cut down act 1 a bit to make it fit onto 1 CD
3. 80 minutes at once is still a loooong album even without the other 50 minutes of act 2
It could actually go into 3 parts quite nicely too, as it only really has 3 proper "events" (or "scenes"? :P) with the rest being setting up or character reactions to those:

Part 1 - Introduction and the meeting in the square (ends with Three Days)
Part 2 - Reaction to the meeting in the square, then the arrival of Faythe and Daryus in Ravenskill and the deals they attempt to strike there (ends with Road To Revolution, roughly)
Part 3 - The showdown at Heaven's Cove (essentially Act II as it is now)
Yep, me and a couple of others have said the same thing. Definitely should have been 3 acts.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Nearmyth on January 30, 2016, 04:37:30 PM
Glad I'm not the only one with the 3 act mentality. I mentioned earlier it would have been cool to split it up by the NOMAC tracks, but after more listens the "3 acts" make much more sense.

Anyway, among this albums many many highlights - A Tempting Offer is one of the most intriguing, dark, disturbing, yet emotional tracks on the album. The piano at the beginning, the "he'll never want again" part. The ending with "I am through with being pushed aside" gives me chills. It's such a powerful and evil piece. You can almost sympathize with Daryus' struggle (even though he's a dick), yet it lets you know things are gonna go real south real soon.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 30, 2016, 04:43:15 PM
3 full spins in and finally got to take a drive and listen to the whole thing in the car. 

Act 1 is a 9.5/10 and Act 2 is a 7.5/10. 

Its a fantastic album.  Its honestly everything I want in a Dream Theater album and its what I feel we have been missing since SDOIT.

For those struggling with the ballads (I was one of them)  I think it really helps to focus on the lyrics and immerse yourself in the story for these tracks.  They become far more powerful and feel less like filler. 

My top 5 DT albums before The Astonishing was released were SFAM, I&W, SDOIT, Awake, FII.   Then there is a HUGE drop off IMO. 

The Astonishing has already dethroned FII.. which I thought would never happen and think it will likely dethrone Awake but as of now I have it safely in the #5 spot.    Will it dethrone any of the "big 3"?    Time will tell but its really tough to top SFAM or I&W.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ErHaO on January 30, 2016, 04:48:36 PM
Could they have told the entire story on one single CD though? Or did the story warrant a double CD?

They could have done 3 CD's if they had jammed a bit more. Any less than 2 CD's and we just wouldn't have gotten the DT soul injected in there, not enough room for detail.

Actually I think 3 CDs would have been perfect, it would have allowed them to balance the narrative:music ratio more fairly and satisfactory for the fans who are taken aback by the lack of DT feel.
i would've actually preferred 3 CD's to two tbh because
1. the CD split is really lopsided as is
2. they probably had to cut down act 1 a bit to make it fit onto 1 CD
3. 80 minutes at once is still a loooong album even without the other 50 minutes of act 2
It could actually go into 3 parts quite nicely too, as it only really has 3 proper "events" (or "scenes"? :P) with the rest being setting up or character reactions to those:

Part 1 - Introduction and the meeting in the square (ends with Three Days)
Part 2 - Reaction to the meeting in the square, then the arrival of Faythe and Daryus in Ravenskill and the deals they attempt to strike there (ends with Road To Revolution, roughly)
Part 3 - The showdown at Heaven's Cove (essentially Act II as it is now)
Yep, me and a couple of others have said the same thing. Definitely should have been 3 acts.

Since I am not bound to the CD medium, I already made three seperate TA playlists like this, I think it works well.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 30, 2016, 04:52:32 PM
The ending with "I am through with being pushed aside" gives me chills. It's such a powerful and evil piece. You can almost sympathize with Daryus' struggle (even though he's a dick), yet it lets you know things are gonna go real south real soon.
Yeah, that ending is very chilling. Favoritism never seems to work out for everyone, so you can see after reading the information on the site why he feels the way he does. I can't justify his actions, though. :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on January 30, 2016, 05:01:52 PM
2 acts is because thats the broadway way...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on January 30, 2016, 05:12:42 PM
They were very smart in the way this was written/recorded/mixed. This was absolutely and undoubtedly intended to be 100% a live show. The more I listen, the more I'm impressed. This is seriously huge. Things like this are the reason I'm so proud to call DT my favorite band.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peter Mc on January 30, 2016, 05:17:27 PM
Ok, have listened to this twice through now and still need many more listens before making any final judgement.

For those people asking DT to do something different, they have certainly done that. There is stuff on here that you have never heard from them. As others have been saying, this is not just a concept album like SFAM, this is a full on musical/rock opera and there will be some fans who won't like this as these are kind of show tunes rather than straight up metal.

Early favourites for me are A Life Left Behind, which features a LTEesque intro and just gorgeous melodies, and also loving Three Days (especially the Bow Down To Nafaryus bits). Agree about the "my music player" lyric being cringeworthy but mercifully it only lasts for about 10 seconds.

Considering this is Petrucci's baby, there are a lot of songs on here where he doesn't take a solo which is highly unusual for him but the whole album is unusual. His intro to Saviour In The Square is just gorgeous though.

I will say that JLB is the star of the show for me, his voice is not massively different for the different characters but he just sounds absolutely fantastic. I always liked JLB as a singer but didn't fall in love with him until SFAM (I now love his performance on the previous albums as well). I think this may do the same for more recent fans. This is a career defining performance for me.

 I'm sure album will continue to grow on me, particularly Act 2 which, at the moment, seems the weaker disc.

I do think it will be the most polarising album in their catalogue for fans.

One thing that has slightly disappointed me is the album booklet and more particularly the artwork.  This isn't really a 'never enough' moment as it's not of massive importance and it's really my own fault.  I just remember people posting artwork from the artist responsible for the album art and we were all speculating how some of the amazing pieces looked like they were for TA.  I was hoping that these would show up in the booklet and on the 'Places' section of the site but alas they are nowhere to be seen.  Like I say, it's my own fault really for looking at the other artwork and jumping to conclusions but can't help being a little disappointed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on January 30, 2016, 05:23:49 PM
I overwhelmingly disagree with the "music player" part being cringeworthy.
Thinking about the context and what it means, makes full sense.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on January 30, 2016, 05:37:03 PM
I overwhelmingly disagree with the "music player" part being cringeworthy.
Thinking about the context and what it means, makes full sense.

I still consider the whole "music player" part my favourite in the entire song, and it's one of my favourite songs on the first act.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on January 30, 2016, 05:46:18 PM
To Kaipa fans, do you recognize the vocal melody near the end of Hymn of a Thousand Voices?  It is sort of similar to the one in Distant Voices (off Kaipa's Keyholder). I knew that sounded familiar the first time I heard it.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on January 30, 2016, 05:56:43 PM
3 acts would've been way too much. Act II already has some filler moments and it isn't even an hour long, I can't even imagine how dragged out a 3 Act version would be.

I think the way it's divided is fine, but I don't think they wrapped the story up as gracefully as they set it up. Still way better than I expected.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 30, 2016, 05:57:30 PM
I bet the 3 CDs option was on the table or crossed JP's mind at one point or another, act 1 indeed can easily be divided in two story wise.
I also bet RoadRunner would -or maybe did- say "no way Jose" to that idea.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: millahh on January 30, 2016, 05:58:52 PM
2 acts is because thats the broadway way...

Almost always...I believe Princess Ida (G&S) is three acts...though that may be stretching the definition of "Broadway" slightly.

The musical theater is strong in this one.  I played in a bunch of pit orchestras in college, and there are definitely things that feel very familiar about the flow, and how it's put together.

I've had three runthroughs now, still processing it.  I think I like it...though it helps to not think of this in the context of anything else they've done.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 30, 2016, 06:00:16 PM
I can't even imagine how dragged out a 3 Act version would be.

It would have allowed space for more music to balance the narrative and cater to traditional Dream Theater fans, not talking about myself.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 30, 2016, 06:18:40 PM
Does anybody else find the guitar solo in "When your Time has come"  hilarious?    Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love it but this is what i picture: 

Queen Elsa from Frozen singing "let it go" and then she hears some crazy noise and looks over the hills and sees Petrucci in a blizzard just rocking his ass off out of nowhere.   

I actually think that would make for a funny movie... a rock band infiltrates a disney movie which is actually sort of what The Astonishing is anyways.

I promise I did not take any drugs before this post so if it comes off like gibberish than I apologize :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mebert78 on January 30, 2016, 06:20:43 PM
I just completed my second full listen -- once last night and once tonight, with some jumping around this morning. It definitely has its pros and cons, but wow -- what a beast of an album!

First, I gotta give Petrucci and the band huge credit for doing something so innovative and different. It's basically a full-on futuristic musical with character dialogue in the booklet and sound effects with the music, etc. The fact that they took such a challenge and risk is why I love this band so much. This is one of the most unique albums I've ever heard.

Last night I listened to the music without reading along and my initial reaction was that Disc 1 was too Jordan-heavy and slow in spots with the piano intros and interludes, while Disc 2 really shined a lot more. Tonight I listened while reading the booklet dialogue as well as the track-by-track description on their website that sets the scene and plot, and I found myself enjoying it a whole lot more. The music was fitting the tone of the story and it created a little "theater"in my mind. The pictures in the booklet and website help set the scene well too. The song flow and music choices were more understandable in that context and it was a fun experience. I even found myself getting chills at the climactic point of the story!

I need to listen more and let this whole thing sink in further before I make a judgment though. It's a lot to take in. Also, is it my imagination or does Petrucci's guitar sound a little thin on some of the heavier moments?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on January 30, 2016, 06:36:40 PM
Wow.  What a production.  Album of the year straight up, deserves a Grammy or at least a nom.  Don't think I'll put it above SFAM due the the amount of ballads, but its definitely 2nd.  I had a smile on my face the whole time, and while I may skip tracks, it doesn't mean they are not good.  Not a bad one on here.

I want to thank you all for preparing me for the fact that it's a rock opera and not a normal DT album.  Knowing the difference ahead of time helped me put the ballads in perspective and I didn't mind them.  Anyone who complains about how there are too many ballads doesn't understand what is going on here.  This totally sounds like a soundtrack to a play and I can totally picture it on stage.

One complaint is that I was expecting more distinction in the voices.  I know it's the same man, but he could have tried harder.  For example, in New Beginning, he goes from Faythe to Arabelle to Nafaryus in what sounds like the same voice.  Without reading the lyrics, it all sounds like the same person.

And what's with the complaints of "not enough metal"?  I heard plenty of it just in the first 10 songs!

What's with the fake crickets in Losing Faythe?  Sound effect CD's do exist, guys!

In Three Days, the speaking parts kind of sound like Dave Mustaine! haha

"My music player...my private paradise" I sure felt this way growing up, I always had headphones on with a fanny pack full of tapes!

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jayvee3 on January 30, 2016, 06:37:57 PM
I admittedly glossed over quite a few pages of this thread - too many to go through once I got home last night - but does anyone absolutely adore The Answer?  That is one of the best songs under two minutes I've ever heard.  Gorgeous little piece of music. :tup :tup

I agree wholeheartedly Kev... I wrote a similar thing a couple of days (and many, many pages) back. The Answer was one that jumped out at me immediately and I think sometimes may get written off as it's so short. But to me, it's 1:53 of seriously beautiful melody. I adore it's 'big brother' Begin Again too, and love the 'Christmas' outro.

I'm all over this album, as it's the side of DT that I'm particularly fond of, and really enjoying all the differing opinions. Many are praising 'Our New World', which I like, but I rank other songs higher like 'The Answer', 'Begin Again', 'Chosen', 'Ravenskill', 'A Better Life', 'Saviour in the Square/When Your Time Has Come' and 'Road to Revolution', which haven't really had much said about them. Thats really cool, and appears a real strength of the album as there's a little something for everyone. I've done a lot of listening in random order too, and feel that many of these tracks work more than fine standalone.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream_Theater01 on January 30, 2016, 06:52:24 PM
Fantastic album.  It's incredible.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: devieira73 on January 30, 2016, 06:53:41 PM
Last night I listened to the music without reading along and my initial reaction was that Disc 1 was too Jordan-heavy and slow in spots with the piano intros and interludes, while Disc 2 really shined a lot more. Tonight I listened while reading the booklet dialogue as well as the track-by-track description on their website that sets the scene and plot, and I found myself enjoying it a whole lot more.


I strongly recomend this to anyone to fully appreciate this album. Specially the people not too good on english (like me) , that are connected with DT music mostly for the instrumental part and never cared too much for DT lyrics (again, like me).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream_Theater01 on January 30, 2016, 07:10:19 PM
The album is already one of my favorite albums from the band.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on January 30, 2016, 07:30:22 PM
I admittedly glossed over quite a few pages of this thread - too many to go through once I got home last night - but does anyone absolutely adore The Answer?  That is one of the best songs under two minutes I've ever heard.  Gorgeous little piece of music. :tup :tup

I agree wholeheartedly Kev... I wrote a similar thing a couple of days (and many, many pages) back. The Answer was one that jumped out at me immediately and I think sometimes may get written off as it's so short. But to me, it's 1:53 of seriously beautiful melody. I adore it's 'big brother' Begin Again too, and love the 'Christmas' outro.
 

Christmas outro...heh, that is one way to put it.  :tup :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Crow on January 30, 2016, 08:08:35 PM
why do so many songs sound like church hymns on this album
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peter Mc on January 30, 2016, 08:15:53 PM
I overwhelmingly disagree with the "music player" part being cringeworthy.
Thinking about the context and what it means, makes full sense.

I still consider the whole "music player" part my favourite in the entire song, and it's one of my favourite songs on the first act.

Hey, it's cool that you both like that part and I agree that it does make sense story wise. I don't know what it is but I just cringe every time I hear it. Have to say disc 2 has really grown on me as well. The big cringe moment on disc 2 though, for me at least, is the bit that I think is supposed to be Nafaryus and Arabelle crying. Again though, I just can't praise James La Brie enough for this album. Don't know how the hell he is going to pull this off live but I'll find out on opening night!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on January 30, 2016, 08:54:44 PM
This album is a beautiful work of art from front to back. Best album since SDOIT hands down.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on January 30, 2016, 08:58:39 PM
Honestly, I like the "my music player" line. You all treat it as cringeworthy or out of place, but it really speaks to how terrible the world has become, that something like a little ipod is so valuable, and so emphasized musically. Upon the second listen I actually get goosebumps there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JMSE on January 30, 2016, 09:16:28 PM
I'll be writing my review tomorrow but some thoughts:

- To take such a different direction from the last 6 albums is refreshing and much welcomed; especially when coming out of a streak of top 10 charts, and grammy nominations

- TGOM feels so much stronger coming right after the overture. The beginning is such a greater than life sound in the right context

- Saviour in the Square and When Your Time has Come are the mellow cousins of "The Mirror" & "Lie" as they go so well together one after the other

- Lord Nafaryous and Three days are just too much fun to listen to.

- MM is not the the attention grabbing drummer MP is (don't mean this as an insult by any mean). But then there are moments when a simple beat REALLY adds so much more: The heavy beat he plays in Ravenskill, the one he plays on a life left behind after the intro.

- A life left behind is among my favourite DT songs. The intro has a clear YES nod

- A new Beginning steals the show with the heavy riff at the beginning, and its 80s sounding solo.

- JP proved he not only shreds. His solos made me smile

- The album could have ended in Our New World (Are you kidding me with this song? holy sh*t!!!). But like many Neal Morse epics, I get why it closed with Astonishing.

- Gabriel The Astonishing is a fantastic nickname.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 30, 2016, 09:24:47 PM
Honestly, I like the "my music player" line. You all treat it as cringeworthy or out of place, but it really speaks to how terrible the world has become, that something like a little ipod is so valuable, and so emphasized musically. Upon the second listen I actually get goosebumps there.
Thank you! And, I would bet that some of the people complaining about that line also use music to take their minds off of other things, or escape reality for a while too, just as Faythe is doing...it doesn't only have to apply to the society created in the story. This is very common now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on January 30, 2016, 09:26:11 PM
I'll be writing my review tomorrow but some thoughts:

- To take such a different direction from the last 6 albums is refreshing and much welcomed; especially when coming out of a streak of top 10 charts, and grammy nominations

- TGOM feels so much stronger coming right after the overture. The beginning is such a greater than life sound in the right context

- Saviour in the Square and When Your Time has Come are the mellow cousins of "The Mirror" & "Lie" as they go so well together one after the other

- Lord Nafaryous and Three days are just too much fun to listen to.

- MM is not the the attention grabbing drummer MP is (don't mean this as an insult by any mean). But then there are moments when a simple beat REALLY adds so much more: The heavy beat he plays in Ravenskill, the one he plays on a life left behind after the intro.

- A life left behind is among my favourite DT songs. The intro has a clear YES nod

- A new Beginning steals the show with the heavy riff at the beginning, and its 80s sounding solo.

- JP proved he not only shreds. His solos made me smile

- The album could have ended in Our New World (Are you kidding me with this song? holy sh*t!!!). But like many Neal Morse epics, I get why it closed with Astonishing.

- Gabriel The Astonishing is a fantastic nickname.

Great post!

Totally agreed about Mangini. I love the simple beat during the last 2 1/2 minutes of A New Beginning.  No fills or anything crazy are needed there; just keep that great beat and let JP do his thing.

I'll admit I wasn't overly excited about The Gift of Music or Moment of Betrayal when hearing both before the release yesterday, but yeah, in the context of the album, both became pretty great.

What's funny is, even though this story was JP's baby, this album is owned by JLB and JR.  I know some were concerned that JP was making the band too much of his own, after how guitar-driven DT12 was and how the keyboards leads weren't as prominent, but I think this record tells us something else.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on January 30, 2016, 09:26:28 PM
Does anybody else find the guitar solo in "When your Time has come"  hilarious?    Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love it but this is what i picture: 

Queen Elsa from Frozen singing "let it go" and then she hears some crazy noise and looks over the hills and sees Petrucci in a blizzard just rocking his ass off out of nowhere.   

I actually think that would make for a funny movie... a rock band infiltrates a disney movie which is actually sort of what The Astonishing is anyways.

I promise I did not take any drugs before this post so if it comes off like gibberish than I apologize :)
Ok, what did you take?








Don't worry, I want some.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on January 30, 2016, 09:38:22 PM
I'm honestly surprised by the fact that I enjoy this album more and more every time I listen. That typically doesn't happen once the newness wears off a bit
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 30, 2016, 09:38:29 PM
I admittedly glossed over quite a few pages of this thread - too many to go through once I got home last night - but does anyone absolutely adore The Answer?  That is one of the best songs under two minutes I've ever heard.  Gorgeous little piece of music. :tup :tup

I agree wholeheartedly Kev... I wrote a similar thing a couple of days (and many, many pages) back. The Answer was one that jumped out at me immediately and I think sometimes may get written off as it's so short. But to me, it's 1:53 of seriously beautiful melody. I adore it's 'big brother' Begin Again too, and love the 'Christmas' outro.


The Christmas sound actually puts me off a bit there, and ever since I haven't really enjoyed that melody elsewhere on the album because it reminds me of that. There are a few Disney type things like that in Act II that make me prefer Act I (not that I have a problem with happy or Disney, I just didn't like that particular sound or melody). Our New World and Astonishing are probably the only things on Act II I like at this point.
Act I is another story though. Still digging much of that a lot.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hanz Gruber on January 30, 2016, 10:26:09 PM
Oh lawd, coming from another forum it's so refreshing to see people who don't like the album not being total bass soles about it. Props!

As cheesy and "Disney-like" as it is, I personally quite like it. It's great for what it is, don't see why people compare to other stuff the whole time. If people go about it like they would when it comes to The Wall or even a Steven Wilson record (these days), they 're just setting themselves up to not like it.

If they pull it off in a live setting, it will make for such a great show.

Over time a few tracks might be filler material for me but can't complain at all because there are just so many good moments in there. "Chosen" is my personal favorite, I'm surprised it hasn't gotten as many honorable mentions in here. It's like the "Let It Go" of this album.  ;D

They took enough creative risks here (imo the biggest one being making this tour album-exclusive), at least you can't blame them for that.

Yep. I personally am not a big fan of it yet but I am glad that people are being civil about things  (Only had time for 1 listen so I may end up liking it better.)

I like that they took a risk but when some of the first lyrics that hit me are so cheesy it sets a bad tone.  "As fearless leader of the Ravenskill Militia.  The blood of warriors flows throughout my veins"  I don;t know why....those lines almost made me hit skip.

I applaud them for doing something risky and different but I could not get into it much on the first listen.  Dream Theater is my favorite band and I think their effort at a rock opera doesn't compare to what a band like Savatage has done over and over.  (Streets, Dead Winter Dead, Wake of Magellan)  Those albums are rock operas that have tracks that stand on their own.

I also have no problem with ballads or slow songs.  I like bands ranging from Testament, Megadeth, Slayer (older...Reign in Blood to Seasons in the Abyss) to slower bands like The Gathering and Anathema.   I am open to anything when it comes to rock.

I love many of Dream Theater's slow songs like Wait For Sleep, Space Dye Vest, Another Day, Lifting Shadows, Hollow Years, Through Her Eyes, The Spirit Carries On, Solitary Shell, Goodnight Kiss, Along for the Ride, The Bigger Picture,  The Answer Lies Within etc.  I just don't feel like the melody and quality of these songs match the aforementioned songs.

Hope it will grow on me but as of now it is my least favorite CD of theirs featuring JLB....not because he sang bad...because i just don;t dig many of the songs.

If it doesn't end up growing on me then I am sure I will love their next effort in a few years and I am still grateful for all of the quality music that they consistently pumped out over the years.  Looking forward to what is next.

Hell, maybe I don't have to wait.  Maybe with my next listen it will click (probably can't listen again until Monday unfortunately)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jayvee3 on January 30, 2016, 10:39:01 PM
I admittedly glossed over quite a few pages of this thread - too many to go through once I got home last night - but does anyone absolutely adore The Answer?  That is one of the best songs under two minutes I've ever heard.  Gorgeous little piece of music. :tup :tup

I agree wholeheartedly Kev... I wrote a similar thing a couple of days (and many, many pages) back. The Answer was one that jumped out at me immediately and I think sometimes may get written off as it's so short. But to me, it's 1:53 of seriously beautiful melody. I adore it's 'big brother' Begin Again too, and love the 'Christmas' outro.


The Christmas sound actually puts me off a bit there, and ever since I haven't really enjoyed that melody elsewhere on the album because it reminds me of that. There are a few Disney type things like that in Act II that make me prefer Act I (not that I have a problem with happy or Disney, I just didn't like that particular sound or melody). Our New World and Astonishing are probably the only things on Act II I like at this point.
Act I is another story though. Still digging much of that a lot.

Thats cool mate - different strokes for different folks. I really love Act II though - Begin Again, The Path that Divides, The Walking Shadow, My Last Farewell, Losing Faythe and Astonishing are big highlights for me. It's actually the power of this album - so many different tracks and diversity that suits everyone a little different.  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 30, 2016, 10:40:20 PM
I admittedly glossed over quite a few pages of this thread - too many to go through once I got home last night - but does anyone absolutely adore The Answer?  That is one of the best songs under two minutes I've ever heard.  Gorgeous little piece of music. :tup :tup

I agree wholeheartedly Kev... I wrote a similar thing a couple of days (and many, many pages) back. The Answer was one that jumped out at me immediately and I think sometimes may get written off as it's so short. But to me, it's 1:53 of seriously beautiful melody. I adore it's 'big brother' Begin Again too, and love the 'Christmas' outro.


The Christmas sound actually puts me off a bit there, and ever since I haven't really enjoyed that melody elsewhere on the album because it reminds me of that. There are a few Disney type things like that in Act II that make me prefer Act I (not that I have a problem with happy or Disney, I just didn't like that particular sound or melody). Our New World and Astonishing are probably the only things on Act II I like at this point.
Act I is another story though. Still digging much of that a lot.

Thats cool mate - different strokes for different folks. I really love Act II though - Begin Again, The Path that Divides, The Walking Shadow, My Last Farewell, Losing Faythe and Astonishing are big highlights for me. It's actually the power of this album - so many different tracks and diversity that suits everyone a little different.  :tup

Yep! And there's still plenty of time for the rest to grow on me. :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 30, 2016, 10:47:20 PM
I don't know if anyone has said this. but Our New World reminds me of a song from Kings X, I've been thinking that for the last few days.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on January 30, 2016, 10:50:43 PM
I don't want to say that much right now apart an honorable mention to Ravenskill for having one of the most intense climax in a Dt song, ever.

All in all very strong melodies spread throughout the whole album.
Let's hope the Double Album curse won't strike Dt again, like what happened after SDOIT.

What if you are cursed? Octavarium, IT and the CoT were all made after SDOIT...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertie_Wooster on January 30, 2016, 11:01:12 PM
People who complain about the fadeout on new beginning can blame themselves if they buy CD's rather than digital copies.
If everyone switched to digital we would not have the time limitation problem. Also as soon as the mastering was done we could download it.
As it is the people who buy CD's are making everyone wait for them to have them manufactured.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on January 30, 2016, 11:06:49 PM
I highly doubt a New Beginning was faded out because they had no time, but the other way around, it was faded out to fill the timer.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertie_Wooster on January 30, 2016, 11:13:13 PM
My complaint is that Dystopian  overture ends too suddenly.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 30, 2016, 11:16:20 PM
What exactly is the issue with A New Beginning having a fadeout?   I actually love the fadeout... it sounds badass.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertie_Wooster on January 30, 2016, 11:23:11 PM
   I didn't notice anything wrong until people started making a big deal about it Others complained about the drums during the solo.
Who is listening to the drums when Myung is grooving and JP playing that solo?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jayvee3 on January 30, 2016, 11:25:20 PM

I love many of Dream Theater's slow songs like Wait For Sleep, Space Dye Vest, Another Day, Lifting Shadows, Hollow Years, Through Her Eyes, The Spirit Carries On, Solitary Shell, Goodnight Kiss, Along for the Ride, The Bigger Picture,  The Answer Lies Within etc.  I just don't feel like the melody and quality of these songs match the aforementioned songs.

See, it's interesting - I'm a big fan of DT's melodic side, and I feel these are easily some of the best ballads they've ever written. I do love Wait for Sleep and Far From Heaven, and the BTFW version of Space Dye Vest (the album version doesn't excite me as much as many others here, nor Disappear bar the ending, as I find it a bit of a grind). But I honestly think many of the ballads on the Astonishing blow away some of the others you mention.

But you've documented your stance really well, and how it may take more listens to click. I hope it does, as there is some real quality on this album. But if not, hey, that's the nature of us all liking different things.  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on January 30, 2016, 11:38:18 PM
My biggest challenge with this album is to find time for it...working in a law firm and having three kids makes it very difficult  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 30, 2016, 11:39:36 PM
My biggest challenge with this album is to find time for it...working in a law firm and having three kids makes it very difficult  :biggrin:

So what you're saying is people just don't have the time for music any more? :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on January 30, 2016, 11:42:15 PM
My biggest challenge with this album is to find time for it...working in a law firm and having three kids makes it very difficult  :biggrin:

So what you're saying is people just don't have the time for music any more? :P

Hahaha absolutely...there is a huge nomac in my life following me wherever I go  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertie_Wooster on January 30, 2016, 11:42:57 PM
Thats why being a truck driver is great.  I can listen to whatever I want all day long.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on January 30, 2016, 11:47:14 PM
Don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but the pacing of the album is very good I think.  Yes there are a lot of ballads, but they are well spread out, the album never lagged for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 30, 2016, 11:50:27 PM
My biggest challenge with this album is to find time for it...working in a law firm and having three kids makes it very difficult  :biggrin:

So what you're saying is people just don't have the time for music any more? :P

Hahaha absolutely...there is a huge nomac in my life following me wherever I go  :lol


-HEY MOOR, GUESS WHAT?
-I don't know, NOMAC. What?
BLOOOOOOOOORRRRRRPPPPPPPPPPPP
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on January 31, 2016, 12:21:19 AM
FUCK A Tempting Offer is such a sick song. I love the delay on the kid's yell as the band kicks in to the heavy part. The lyrics are so creepy, it's fuckin awesome.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 31, 2016, 12:24:58 AM
Anyone interested to hear Portnoy's thoughts on The Astonishing?? I think it'd be interesting....
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheGreatPretender on January 31, 2016, 12:53:20 AM
Anyone interested to hear Portnoy's thoughts on The Astonishing?? I think it'd be interesting....

"Well, I can't say anything about it, because the internet would just overanalyze it, but let me just say... I heard Scenes From A Memory already... So..."

Lol, I dunno, TGP is drunk.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TioJorge on January 31, 2016, 01:59:08 AM
"So, Portnoy, what do you think of Drea-" "EAT MY ASS AND BALLS."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Milzinga on January 31, 2016, 02:14:21 AM
Anyone interested to hear Portnoy's thoughts on The Astonishing?? I think it'd be interesting....

I was wondering that today. I'm sure someone will ask him in an interview and he'll probably respond saying something like that hasn't even listened to it yet or that he has nothing to say regarding it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: IdoSC on January 31, 2016, 02:18:35 AM
In regards to Portnoy - not really, it wouldn't be interesting as I doubt that's his style at all. Every critique is legit, but considering how he joined the "ADTOE is exactly the same as I&W" camp a few years ago, I bet he would share those pictures flying around with the cover of The Astonishing that has the author name replaced with "Walt Disney" if he could.

People who complain about the fadeout on new beginning can blame themselves if they buy CD's rather than digital copies.
If everyone switched to digital we would not have the time limitation problem. Also as soon as the mastering was done we could download it.
As it is the people who buy CD's are making everyone wait for them to have them manufactured.
What does a fade out on a song that is not the final song on either disc have to do with buying CD's, time limitations, or how long you have to wait for an album?

I highly doubt they'd just cut a song short with a fade out if they tried to trim the fats for a CD release. They'd just make the song shorter and end it properly if that was the reason, this is the longest song on the album anyways. The fadeout clearly happens because they transition from a very groovy, upbeat song and solo section to a dramatic breakdown and this is one great way to handle it - and it's not unprecedented by DT, either.

Also, CD's are not going away anytime soon, buddy, no need to be so hostile to people who prefer them or whatever drives them to get them over digital downloads. I live in a country where virtually every streaming or digital music service except for iTunes has not been enabled in yet, and I don't have an iDevice so for the most part the choice is clear. Also, no other DT album except for maybe SFAM and Octavarium ever needed a booklet as much as this one does.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: legenden1 on January 31, 2016, 02:37:09 AM
I think it is amazing that The X Aspect rarely been mentioned yet. When I first heard Dystopia Overture I immediately got goosebumps by 0:45-1:00 thinking and hoping the theme would return many times during the album. As far as I have noticed it is only returning in The X Aspect and by doing so making it my favourite song on the album. It should have been used as the main theme throughout the album IMO, it amazing. That being said, this record is unbelievable the way it is! My only real complaint is that the ending isn´t as epic as expected, given the size of this story.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tomislav95 on January 31, 2016, 02:41:19 AM
Don't know, I love Brother, can you hear me/us reprise in The Astonishing, it's IMO great way to finish the album. What bothers me is nomac track before The Astonishing because it kind of kill the atmosphere.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dreamer on January 31, 2016, 03:11:26 AM
I think I prefer the last two albums to this. This is not what I wanted from DT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TioJorge on January 31, 2016, 03:24:58 AM
I can respect that! On that note, I'd really like it if this were the last venture like this from the guys. With this and SFAM, I'm pretty rock-opera'd out. At least I will be once I get tired of TA.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wasteland on January 31, 2016, 03:27:23 AM
I just read a frankly astonishing review on progarchives by a self confessed "former" DT fan. Here's the closure:

Quote
I'm sure one can still be impressed by the talent these 5 guys have in their fingers. They can still play scales and fills faster and more smoothly than nobody else in the rock world....

... What they have forgotten is how to write a damn song.

The question is: have the two of us listened to the same album?  :huh:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TioJorge on January 31, 2016, 03:30:01 AM
Yeah that's confusing. This is by far and away the least "technically show-offish" album in their entire catalog by a long sight. He must have accidentally put on The Majesty Demos. It happens.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on January 31, 2016, 03:41:16 AM
2 acts is because thats the broadway way...
I guess, but then there are many 3-act operas and operettas that still only have one interval when staged (usually between acts 2 and 3) with only a short break in the other one. Not like it really matters much at all, but I think the pacing works so much better (musically and narratively) when thinking of it in 3 parts.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Outcrier on January 31, 2016, 04:31:20 AM
I just read a frankly astonishing review on progarchives by a self confessed "former" DT fan. Here's the closure:

Quote
I'm sure one can still be impressed by the talent these 5 guys have in their fingers. They can still play scales and fills faster and more smoothly than nobody else in the rock world....

... What they have forgotten is how to write a damn song.

The question is: have the two of us listened to the same album?  :huh:

It's not like everyone is forced to love the album. I myself think this album (and most of their latest stuff) got nothing on old DT so, that's why he said what he said.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on January 31, 2016, 04:38:17 AM
I just read a frankly astonishing review on progarchives by a self confessed "former" DT fan. Here's the closure:

Quote
I'm sure one can still be impressed by the talent these 5 guys have in their fingers. They can still play scales and fills faster and more smoothly than nobody else in the rock world....

... What they have forgotten is how to write a damn song.

The question is: have the two of us listened to the same album?  :huh:

It's not like everyone is forced to love the album. I myself think this album (and most of their latest stuff) got nothing on old DT so, that's why he said what he said.

However, the issue there is not that the reviewer dislikes the album, it's that the reason doesn't make any sense. The reviewer implies that the technical showmanship overshadows the songwriting, but anyone who has listened to it can gather that that is opposite to what DT have actually done.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Outcrier on January 31, 2016, 04:41:48 AM
However, the issue there is not that the reviewer dislikes the album, it's that the reason doesn't make any sense. The reviewer implies that the technical showmanship overshadows the songwriting, but anyone who has listened to it can gather that that is opposite to what DT have actually done.

He didn't mean that. He meant that, while they are great musicians, that doesn't necessarily translates in good songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on January 31, 2016, 04:47:23 AM
However, the issue there is not that the reviewer dislikes the album, it's that the reason doesn't make any sense. The reviewer implies that the technical showmanship overshadows the songwriting, but anyone who has listened to it can gather that that is opposite to what DT have actually done.

He didn't mean that. He meant that, while they are great musicians, that doesn't mean it translate in good songs.

Ok, that makes sense. Still, it's hardly a review (though there are a ton of these so called reviews of RYM and I have just as much issue with the positive reviews that are like that). It's more like a comment than anything, using the format of a review to make his opinion more visible to others.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Outcrier on January 31, 2016, 04:53:53 AM
He actually wrote a long review, wasteland just quoted the very last part from it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on January 31, 2016, 05:04:52 AM
He actually wrote a long review, wasteland just quoted the very last part from it.

Fair enough. I have seen many reviews on RYM that are that short, though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on January 31, 2016, 05:07:59 AM
Anyone interested to hear Portnoy's thoughts on The Astonishing?? I think it'd be interesting....

I was wondering that today. I'm sure someone will ask him in an interview and he'll probably respond saying something like that hasn't even listened to it yet or that he has nothing to say regarding it.

Yeah, I think Portnoy is in the weird position of being the only one who can't publicly comment on DT.

He says something good = people would find something in it to over-analize anyway
He says something bad = Blabbermouth headline "Portnoy slams DT" in 2 seconds
He praises it and applauds it beyond any doubt = "Portnoy is asskissing 'cause he wants to be back".

So he can't really win.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peter Mc on January 31, 2016, 05:34:38 AM
In terms of Portnoy liking or disliking this, I really don't think we'd get this album if he was still in the band and running the show. Don't think he'd be a massive fan. It would be easy for him to answer the question and just congratulate the guys on a huge undertaking and wish then well with it. That would be the classy thing to do unless he actually does like it of course and then what's the harm in saying so.

I suspect however that he won't answer or it will be "good but not really his type of thing".

Really listened intently to disc 2 just now and really loved it. Album keeps getting better.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 31, 2016, 05:43:00 AM
Quote
My only real complaint is that the ending isn't as epic as expected, given the size of this story.

There is so much wrong with this sentence. It's the most epic ending to a DT album since Octavarium.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: GJE on January 31, 2016, 05:52:47 AM

Have now listened to the album, so about 8 times and thinks it is a good album.
But I will find the mix much too flat, everything sounds too massive.
If I Steven Wilson 4 1/2 play after, you hear very well how it can.
So DT, time for another mixer.
Would do a remix by Steven Wilson want to hear, he is so terribly good in it.
However, I enjoy the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wasp2020 on January 31, 2016, 05:57:09 AM
He actually wrote a long review, wasteland just quoted the very last part from it.

Here's some other quotes:

"These 5 have regressed back into their 20's, trying to convince everybody that there is absolutely nothing they can't play, no solo that is beyond them, no idea that can't be stopped in its tracks and completely put aside in favor of another one in a blink of an eye. In a word: they are still showing off."

"...they will immediately obliterate any hope of permanence by switching gears and going to either the most outrageous display of instrumentalist pyrotechnics they can put out..."

It truly makes no sense at all.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on January 31, 2016, 05:57:45 AM
Quote
My only real complaint is that the ending isn't as epic as expected, given the size of this story.

There is so much wrong with this sentence. It's the most epic ending to a DT album since Octavarium.

Heard it only once but I agree that the ending of the album sounds very bombastic and epic.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 31, 2016, 06:02:32 AM
Anyone else noticed a general change to a more positive vibe in DT's music since Portnoy left? Particularly, there is more major-key music now. Before hearing the ending to Illumination Theory, for example, the only DT music in the key of C major that I heard was in Only A Matter of Time.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: scythe on January 31, 2016, 06:09:19 AM
In terms of Portnoy liking or disliking this, I really don't think we'd get this album if he was still in the band and running the show.

And even if it did happen, he'd probably want to do half the characters. "You only have three days...ROOOOAAAAAARRRRRRR"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wasp2020 on January 31, 2016, 06:14:19 AM
In terms of Portnoy liking or disliking this, I really don't think we'd get this album if he was still in the band and running the show.

And even if it did happen, he'd probably want to do half the characters. "You only have three days...ROOOOAAAAAARRRRRRR"

"You have three days, or we'll send in the Cookie Monster after you!"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 31, 2016, 06:15:55 AM
Anyone else noticed a general change to a more positive vibe in DT's music since Portnoy left? Particularly, there is more major-key music now. Before hearing the ending to Illumination Theory, for example, the only DT music in the key of C major that I heard was in Only A Matter of Time.

Why that particular key though? There are a lot of other major keys that they've used plenty, like E and D. C isn't really a common major key for guitar.
The only DT albums that were really devoid of major key stuff were TOT and SC, but given the darker/heavier tone of those albums, it wouldn't have fit. On BCASL, you had a lot of TBOT in major key, and every other album had a lot of it too.
There have been some more upbeat songs in the MM era, but I felt on ADTOE and DT12 they all came across as really cheesy.

However, I do think on The Astonishing they've really recaptured that great major key style that they had in the MP era. TGOM and Our New World remind me a lot of SDOIT (the song), both of which turned out fantastic. :) (yeah some of these are probably technically mixolydian, but I consider that a better version of major)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on January 31, 2016, 06:29:19 AM
Only two (four) spins in. Still in digestion mode. Musically, there's a lot of great things on. The story wasn't as grand scale as all the choose between the Empire and Militia build up stuff had led me to believe, but that won't keep me from listening to and enjoying the music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thematt202 on January 31, 2016, 06:34:33 AM
Noxon, if you're around, can you tell us now which song your daughter wanted to download? I have a 15 month old and she started headbanging as soon as Dystopian Overture kicked off!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on January 31, 2016, 06:36:23 AM
At my second listening I'm already having shivers during A Better Life and When your Time has Come!

"When you're facing the path that divides
Know that I will be there by your side"...


James at his very very awesome best!!!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikemangioy on January 31, 2016, 06:51:46 AM
My opinion:

The Astonishing is a great record, I admire DT for trying something so different, so late in their career, kinda like Rush did with Clockwork Angels (which worked in a similar enviorment, story-wise.)
I think this album will grow more on me, but so far I quite like it. It has some flaws, of course (some of the melodies are not that original in my opinion, and I could've done well with less songs dealing with the same topic - ex.: Begin Again/Act Of Faythe, The X Aspect/Moment Of Betrayal. I would've liked a song about Nafaryus' childhood, or a song from Daryus' POV, after he goes deaf.)

But, really, this album works spectacularly for its purpose: telling a story. It's one of the most creative DT albums too, and one that is so varied in the emotional spectrum. I laugh listening to Three Days, same as I cry during Astonishing or Losing Faythe.

Overall, it's really capable of putting you into The Great Northen Empire and follow the story that's unfolding.

As far as songs IMO:

FAVORITES:
A Better Life
Ravenskill (probably my favorite overall)
Three Days
Act Of Faythe
Chosen
A Savior In The Square/When Your Time Has Come
The Walking Shadow
The Path That Divides
Astonishing

I still have to get into some tracks, but damn.
Also, James really shines in this record. It's his redemption for all the instrumental wankery of the past  :rollin

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: axeman90210 on January 31, 2016, 07:02:30 AM
On listen #2... this is going to take a while to digest. Enjoying most of the music so far, but I definitely need to find some time to sit down and just listen and follow along with the lyrics.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 31, 2016, 07:03:22 AM
Towards the end of my second full listen (currently on Whispers on the Wind), and I'm spotting more and more of the recurring themes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on January 31, 2016, 07:12:56 AM
Towards the end of my second full listen (currently on Whispers on the Wind), and I'm spotting more and more of the recurring themes.

Yup, that's when the fun really begins!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 31, 2016, 07:37:48 AM
This album is JLB telling the haters to suck it
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 31, 2016, 07:49:23 AM
So I finished my listen where I said I would focus on JM. I turned down the volume amd I used the large earbuds for my in-ears so that the bass woukd boost.

Wow. JM is the silent killer here. He did not go for flash and speedy playing but focused on being the rhythm section and it's amazing work. Especially loved his work on the slow songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on January 31, 2016, 07:59:25 AM
So I finished my listen where I said I would focus on JM. I turned down the volume amd I used the large earbuds for my in-ears so that the bass woukd boost.

Wow. JM is the silent killer here. He did not go for flash and speedy playing but focused on being the rhythm section and it's amazing work. Especially loved his work on the slow songs.

The same would go for MM (probably JP too, actually). There are a lot of subtleties in the songs I can hear even from the first listen, the album is really well composed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 31, 2016, 08:08:01 AM
So I finished my listen where I said I would focus on JM. I turned down the volume amd I used the large earbuds for my in-ears so that the bass woukd boost.

Wow. JM is the silent killer here. He did not go for flash and speedy playing but focused on being the rhythm section and it's amazing work. Especially loved his work on the slow songs.

The same would go for MM (probably JP too, actually). There are a lot of subtleties in the songs I can hear even from the first listen, the album is really well composed.

MM definitely. Which is why I laugh when I read comments saying that Mangini's playing here is simple. There's this part in Dystopian Overture, for example, where it took mh second listen that the ride is playing along to JR's playful piano playing. And then in another part of DO, where he is doing this beat with the toms (after that break where JP did a Rush-like lead), I realized on second listen that he is doing it with just one hand because I can hear cymbals in the left speaker. LOL
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on January 31, 2016, 08:16:07 AM
In terms of Portnoy liking or disliking this, I really don't think we'd get this album if he was still in the band and running the show. Don't think he'd be a massive fan".


Are you sure? The wall is MP favourite album of all time!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BelichickFan on January 31, 2016, 08:19:54 AM
I loved the CD anyway but it's so enhanced following along with the lyrics.  Despite some, on other forums, laughing at the story I think it's a nice story; but aside from that the playing, in so many places, is appropriate and enhancing of what's happening in the story.

The only track that bugs me right now is Chosen, it sounds way too much like a song that Journey should have written.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chrisbDTM on January 31, 2016, 08:23:09 AM
The Answer is pure Disney (not a bad thing). an animated princess should be staring out a window singing it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on January 31, 2016, 08:31:24 AM
This album is JLB telling the haters to suck it

Haha, true!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 31, 2016, 08:35:12 AM
So I finished my listen where I said I would focus on JM. I turned down the volume amd I used the large earbuds for my in-ears so that the bass woukd boost.

Wow. JM is the silent killer here. He did not go for flash and speedy playing but focused on being the rhythm section and it's amazing work. Especially loved his work on the slow songs.

The same would go for MM (probably JP too, actually). There are a lot of subtleties in the songs I can hear even from the first listen, the album is really well composed.

MM definitely. Which is why I laugh when I read comments saying that Mangini's playing here is simple. There's this part in Dystopian Overture, for example, where it took mh second listen that the ride is playing along to JR's playful piano playing. And then in another part of DO, where he is doing this beat with the toms (after that break where JP did a Rush-like lead), I realized on second listen that he is doing it with just one hand because I can hear cymbals in the left speaker. LOL

What ride bit are you talking about? The only thing I can find that resembles that is just after the minute mark, but he's just playing straight 16ths there (as is the piano aside from JR's expressive tempo pushing) along with a very simple bass/snare. The ride is fast, but the beat itself is very simple. Unless you mean a different bit. :)

The bit with the toms is one of my favourite MM bits on the album, and shows his limb independence, but neither hand is playing particularly fast, so it's not that crazy (and the kick is straight 1/4 notes). I like that the hi-hat isn't playing an even beat though. The H HHH HHH HHH HH pattern adds that bit of extra groove (ZOMG THAT'S THE SECRET WORD) to it. Did that remind anyone else of the instrumental section of Trial of Tears? The beats aren't actually similar, I just got a similar vibe from it.

But my favourite drum bit of Dystopian Overture is actually at about 3 and a half minutes, with the alternating bars of 4/4 & 7/8, where the snare keeps playing in even 1/4 notes so that after the 7/8 trunctation, the snare is now on the opposite beat/accent until after the next bar of 7/8 (something MP did many times that I liked), while the bass loosely plays along with the riff. That's probably my favourite air drum section of the album, playing along with the snare, while managing the ride/crash without screwing up the snare. :tup (and screw the kick because I'm no MM)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Soulshifter on January 31, 2016, 08:36:17 AM
Hello! My first post. Has everybody noticed that the videos on dt.net are the same or it just me?
If im right... What would be there and when its suppose to be released?


I'm quite intrigued :P


Best regards,

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 31, 2016, 09:00:50 AM
So I finished my listen where I said I would focus on JM. I turned down the volume amd I used the large earbuds for my in-ears so that the bass woukd boost.

Wow. JM is the silent killer here. He did not go for flash and speedy playing but focused on being the rhythm section and it's amazing work. Especially loved his work on the slow songs.

The same would go for MM (probably JP too, actually). There are a lot of subtleties in the songs I can hear even from the first listen, the album is really well composed.

MM definitely. Which is why I laugh when I read comments saying that Mangini's playing here is simple. There's this part in Dystopian Overture, for example, where it took mh second listen that the ride is playing along to JR's playful piano playing. And then in another part of DO, where he is doing this beat with the toms (after that break where JP did a Rush-like lead), I realized on second listen that he is doing it with just one hand because I can hear cymbals in the left speaker. LOL

What ride bit are you talking about? The only thing I can find that resembles that is just after the minute mark, but he's just playing straight 16ths there (as is the piano aside from JR's expressive tempo pushing) along with a very simple bass/snare. The ride is fast, but the beat itself is very simple. Unless you mean a different bit. :)

I think we're talking about the same section.  :lol That part is indeed not hard, but it is not just straight 16ths, but has accents that complemented what JR is playing. So for me it is not simple compositionally. Very subtles highlighting, like how he used the rides to highlight the harmony in the guitar solo of The Bigger Picture.

My favorite drum part for the whole album is a slow part, The Walking Shadow building up to the stabbing. MM and JR established an ominous pattern, then the snare followed JLB while MM maintains the beat with JM. :lol

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 31, 2016, 09:03:21 AM
In terms of Portnoy liking or disliking this, I really don't think we'd get this album if he was still in the band and running the show.

And even if it did happen, he'd probably want to do half the characters. "You only have three days...ROOOOAAAAAARRRRRRR"

More like:

And we'll live eteeeernally, in haaaarmony! Our lives will be astonishing again! ROAAAAAAAAAAAR

Remember the roars are a reaction to a positive event, like JP and the others surviving the car crash.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 31, 2016, 09:04:25 AM
"By the grace of God above, Faythe survived. HUH!"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 31, 2016, 09:07:45 AM
So I finished my listen where I said I would focus on JM. I turned down the volume amd I used the large earbuds for my in-ears so that the bass woukd boost.

Wow. JM is the silent killer here. He did not go for flash and speedy playing but focused on being the rhythm section and it's amazing work. Especially loved his work on the slow songs.

The same would go for MM (probably JP too, actually). There are a lot of subtleties in the songs I can hear even from the first listen, the album is really well composed.

MM definitely. Which is why I laugh when I read comments saying that Mangini's playing here is simple. There's this part in Dystopian Overture, for example, where it took mh second listen that the ride is playing along to JR's playful piano playing. And then in another part of DO, where he is doing this beat with the toms (after that break where JP did a Rush-like lead), I realized on second listen that he is doing it with just one hand because I can hear cymbals in the left speaker. LOL

What ride bit are you talking about? The only thing I can find that resembles that is just after the minute mark, but he's just playing straight 16ths there (as is the piano aside from JR's expressive tempo pushing) along with a very simple bass/snare. The ride is fast, but the beat itself is very simple. Unless you mean a different bit. :)

I think we're talking about the same section.  :lol That part is indeed not hard, but it is not just straight 16ths, but has accents that complemented what JR is playing. So for me it is not simple compositionally. Very subtles highlighting, like how he used the rides to highlight the harmony in the guitar solo of The Bigger Picture.

I think we'll have to disagree on that section, because it sounds like straight 16ths to me. The dynamic accents didn't seem to correspond closely to JR, just to the song rhythm itself.
I'm not trying to downplay MM's playing though, I just disagree he's doing what you say there. I do however genuinely love his drumming on all of Dystopian Overture. I finally want to air drum to MM!
And I can hear the subtle ghost rolls on Act of Faythe, and dynamics on the snare (like at the 4 minute mark). I didn't think the drum sound would work on the lighter songs (as it didn't on DT12), but I love the drumming on that one too. There's nothing specifically mind blowing about it, I just think he does a great job of fitting the song, not too little, not too much.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Awaken on January 31, 2016, 09:09:28 AM
Really enjoying the vast majority of this album, but I can't help but wonder how James is going to pull this off live.  Add to that the CT show 4/20 is the tail end of three straight evenings - I can see him being a bit fatigued by then.  Really hoping I'm wrong cause I cannot wait to see this performed live.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on January 31, 2016, 09:10:53 AM
Anyone else noticed a general change to a more positive vibe in DT's music since Portnoy left? Particularly, there is more major-key music now. Before hearing the ending to Illumination Theory, for example, the only DT music in the key of C major that I heard was in Only A Matter of Time.

I absolutely LOVE this aspect of The Astonishing. MAJOR metal! All of those moments are just amazing. The Gift of Music, A New Beginning, etc etc are all AWESOME
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on January 31, 2016, 09:12:03 AM
I doubt JLB will be able to constantly pull off keeping the right "voice" for each character live, since his live singing is always a bit of a mixed bag, but I say, so what?  The album is what we will be listening to for years, and he pulled it off on that, so mad props.  :tup :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 31, 2016, 09:15:47 AM
I can't imagine MM standing up to play and shouting " URRRRGHHHHH " into the mic.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Awaken on January 31, 2016, 09:16:35 AM
I doubt JLB will be able to constantly pull off keeping the right "voice" for each character live, since his live singing is always a bit of a mixed bag, but I say, so what?  The album is what we will be listening to for years, and he pulled it off on that, so mad props.  :tup :tup

Completely agree re: the album, he's the MVP for me even though I'm really enjoying the piano and restraint from Jordan, as well.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on January 31, 2016, 09:24:39 AM
Yea I love how the majority of the album is in major keys, makes it feel very upbeat. 

Watching the interview videos now, JP's beard is starting to look like Rick Rubin's haha
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 31, 2016, 09:28:09 AM
I can't imagine MM standing up to play and shouting " URRRRGHHHHH " into the mic.

I can.

It's pleasant to imagine.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 31, 2016, 09:28:59 AM
::) So those Nomac eyes still do fuck all then ?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 31, 2016, 09:32:28 AM
Someone should probably do some coding there, make them non-clickable. Otherwise there's just gonna be endless speculation.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 31, 2016, 09:41:16 AM
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet: the part at 4:42 in A New Beginning sounds like a variation of the intro melody in TGOM.

The part in ANB is one of my favourite parts in the entire album! :hefdaddy
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ErHaO on January 31, 2016, 09:54:44 AM
Anyone else noticed a general change to a more positive vibe in DT's music since Portnoy left? Particularly, there is more major-key music now. Before hearing the ending to Illumination Theory, for example, the only DT music in the key of C major that I heard was in Only A Matter of Time.

While I have no doubt DT's output would be very different if they still had MP, I am not looking much into the differing type of music and tone/mood post-MP DT has made. I mean, it is not like MP does not like rock opera's or happy, upbeat music. Just give the recent Flying Colors, The Neal Morse Band, and Winery Dogs discs a spin.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SomeoneLikeHim on January 31, 2016, 10:06:20 AM
I haven't read through the entire thread so this might be nothing new but the intro to "A Savior in the Square" really reminds me of "Goodbye Blue Sky" by Pink Floyd. I can't be alone in this right?

Also, loving the album. Such a breath of fresh air after DT12 and likely to break my DT top 5 if not top 3. I'm a massive Ayreon fanboy so this kind of album really appeals to me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on January 31, 2016, 10:11:52 AM
So many people hyped this up as being so great.  While I was let down by the hype of ADTOE, I was not by this album.  It's just as awesome as I hoped and many said it was! :) 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 31, 2016, 10:13:43 AM
The tone of some of this reminds me of Static Impulse.

I've read a few people say that LaBrie has catchier vocal melodies on his solo albums.

Not anymore :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tomislav95 on January 31, 2016, 10:26:01 AM
The tone of some of this reminds me of Static Impulse.

I've read a few people say that LaBrie has catchier vocal melodies on his solo albums.

Not anymore :)
I have yet to explore 2nd CD but melodies on first one are IMO best they've ever done. I like catchy vocal melodies in rock/metal so I can see many songs off TA on heavy rotation on my music player.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hypnotoad on January 31, 2016, 10:27:48 AM
I just have this feeling that Our New World will be an encore track for many years to come. Such an up tempo feel good track.

Feels like it could be DT's The Spirit of Radio  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 31, 2016, 10:30:57 AM
The tone of some of this reminds me of Static Impulse.

I've read a few people say that LaBrie has catchier vocal melodies on his solo albums.

Not anymore :)
I have yet to explore 2nd CD but melodies on first one are IMO best they've ever done. I like catchy vocal melodies in rock/metal so I can see many songs off TA on heavy rotation on my music player.


NUGGETZ.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 31, 2016, 10:34:26 AM
Must be a bug.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 31, 2016, 10:39:14 AM
Since no individual song on The Astonishing is over 8 minutes - I wonder if they purposefully made DT12 shorter songs to test the water for this album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on January 31, 2016, 10:46:12 AM
Since no individual song on The Astonishing is over 8 minutes - I wonder if they purposefully made DT12 shorter songs to test the water for this album.
JP said he had the idea for it while jetlagged while promoting the self-titled (interview for Eddie Trunk, 01/18/16). Of course it has mentioned (many times) they wanted to record a concept album even when MP was in the band, but the idea of a rock opera with short songs (by the DT stardard) probably wasn't in their mind.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 31, 2016, 10:50:59 AM
I haven't read through the entire thread so this might be nothing new but the intro to "A Savior in the Square" really reminds me of "Goodbye Blue Sky" by Pink Floyd. I can't be alone in this right?

I don't hear it, how so?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on January 31, 2016, 10:53:00 AM
I didn't hear it neither, but you're not alone on hearing it, my friend told me that as well yesterday.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hanz Gruber on January 31, 2016, 10:56:56 AM

I love many of Dream Theater's slow songs like Wait For Sleep, Space Dye Vest, Another Day, Lifting Shadows, Hollow Years, Through Her Eyes, The Spirit Carries On, Solitary Shell, Goodnight Kiss, Along for the Ride, The Bigger Picture,  The Answer Lies Within etc.  I just don't feel like the melody and quality of these songs match the aforementioned songs.

See, it's interesting - I'm a big fan of DT's melodic side, and I feel these are easily some of the best ballads they've ever written. I do love Wait for Sleep and Far From Heaven, and the BTFW version of Space Dye Vest (the album version doesn't excite me as much as many others here, nor Disappear bar the ending, as I find it a bit of a grind). But I honestly think many of the ballads on the Astonishing blow away some of the others you mention.

But you've documented your stance really well, and how it may take more listens to click. I hope it does, as there is some real quality on this album. But if not, hey, that's the nature of us all liking different things.  :tup

I am glad that you like it.  Even though I am not the biggest fan of it yet I suspect that I will a lot more with repeated listens.  Even though I am not crazy about it yet I recognize that it is quality music.

I think the lyrics were a big part of what dragged it down for me unfortunately.

A big problem that I had with the first listen of the album was that there were tons of moments of awe and beauty within a song but it wasn't consistent. For example I think it was Savior in the Square...There were moments in the song that I really liked (The intro and then at the end when he starts singing about seeing an angel were great but parts in the middle I didn't enjoy as much. I had the same problem with many of the songs.  They had flashes of moments that I loved but within the same song other parts would drag it down. 

Act of Faythe was another one that was beautiful but I felt that it was kind of ruined by the "My Music Player" section.  I remember being into the song and then cringing (for real) when that part came up.

I suspect that I need to go through it again to digest it better
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RJ86 on January 31, 2016, 10:57:46 AM
I have only had the opportunity to listen through this twice in bits and pieces, I like most of it. Some of the slower stuff could get boring over time and I can already see myself skipping over the nomacs stuff. But this is a pretty good release, overall.
I wish I had the time to devote to a full listen beginning to end. But my life no longer affords me that kind of alone time. Makes me sometimes miss the good ol' days of sitting in a dark room with a couple of beers and a set of over the ear headphones. Because, I really believe The Astonishing deserves that kind of attention.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on January 31, 2016, 11:43:57 AM
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet: the part at 4:42 in A New Beginning sounds like a variation of the intro melody in TGOM.

The part in ANB is one of my favourite parts in the entire album! :hefdaddy

I'm sure that the start of the guitar solo in A New Beginning (when the simple drum beat comes in) is a variation on the "Brother can you hear me?" theme.

Also trying to work out if a passage in The Path That Divides is similar to a passage in the instrumental break of TGOM.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 31, 2016, 12:03:13 PM
I'm sure that the start of the guitar solo in A New Beginning (when the simple drum beat comes in) is a variation on the "Brother can you hear me?" theme.

Can you post timestamp for this one?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: IceMan on January 31, 2016, 12:09:21 PM
I've listened to the album now five times and my favorites as of now are:

A New Beginning
Moment of Betrayal
Begin Again
A Better Life
Brother, Can you Hear Me?
Ravenskill
The Path that Divides
Our New World
Chosen
Act of Faythe

Honorable mentions: A Tempting Offer, The X aspect, A Savior in the Square/When Your Time Has Come

It also seems like I have not very popular opinion, in thinking that the ballads are way stronger than the heavier stuff on this album
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zook on January 31, 2016, 12:15:31 PM
The beginning piece on A Savior in the Square (right before the fanfare comes in) flows nicely into Our New World.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlackInk on January 31, 2016, 12:16:48 PM
So me and the band mates finally had our listening party last night. Blasted the album and had the lyrics on the TV screen. Finished a bottle of vodka during the listening, so Act II was a lot harder to focus on admittedly. But I listened through it again this morning to get a firmer grasp on what I really thought about the entire thing.

I have been kind of against the concept of this album for a long time, saying that it would be really cheesy and too cringy to be taken seriously. I was half right, it is definetely cheesy and a bit cringy at times. But I was pleasantly surprised by how much I still enjoyed the album once I could hear all of it. So yeah, I like the album. It's a massive step up from DT12, and while I think ADToE has better individual songs, I'd say that The Astonishing ranks higher as an album.

Also, I have not read any reviews or even posts here about the album before posting this, so these are my unaffected, pure first (two) impression(s) of it.

The Positive__________________________

I'll start with the things I liked, with a few album highlights in almost no particular order:

The "Evangeline" verse towards the end of A Better Life is really good.

Jordan's main keyboard melody from When Your Time Has Come is nice.

The intro to A Life Left Behind is awesome, probably a top 3 moment on the album.

While "please don't stop on my account" from A Savior In the Square is a really cool line, there's something about "DO AS MY FATHER SAYS!" that really stood out to me. I'm not entirely sure who is supposed to be saying that, but I'm hoping it's Faythe.

The entire groovy ending of A New Beginning is great, some of DT's best work in many years. Very FII-like.

 And last but the very opposite of least: The X Aspect. The "Gabriel has always been..." and "Evangeline, I swore to you..." verses are absolutely gorgeous and are in my opinion the best moments on the album by far. Fantastic.

There are a few I've forgotten I'm sure, but these are the ones that comes to mind right now.

The Negative__________________________

Mangini sounds like a robot. I'm sorry, I know it's been said to death, but it's just true, his dynamics on this album is bordering on what I would call "awful". I don't know if it's Mangini himself who's to blame, or someone else, but so much of his drumming just sounds off. The snare is pretty dull as well. Even my band mates kept mentioning this, and I didn't even need to push them. I will say though that the drumming does improve a bit on Act II.

There are too many effects on LaBrie's voice, to the point of almost becoming distracting at times. The intro to the track 'Ravenskill' is a pretty good example of how to use effects and make it sound good, but there are a few moments throughout this album where it just fails.

Unless I missed something, the NOMACS themselves were completely useless to the story. And that would have been fine, but now they made such a massive deal of these things that when they ultimately never affected the story directly in any way it was a bit disappointing. The story would basically have been the same if they weren't there.

The story and some of the character moments are very cheesy and frankly naive.

Act II was also much less memorable than act II. There were cool moments on II as well, but not as cool as those on I.

Overall Stuff_____________________

In the end I actually liked this album. It's really hard to single out specific tracks as favorites, since it all feels so connected, but I really like The X Aspect and Revenskill right now. We'll see if I get new favorites with more listens. The best NOMAC track is definetely Machine Chatter. I've actually listed to that quite a few times on it's own. It really sets a mood, just too bad the NOMACS were comepletely useless to the story.

So yeah, pleasantly surprised by a good album. Feels nice.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Rickharris1011 on January 31, 2016, 12:25:24 PM
I think it is amazing that The X Aspect rarely been mentioned yet. When I first heard Dystopia Overture I immediately got goosebumps by 0:45-1:00 thinking and hoping the theme would return many times during the album. As far as I have noticed it is only returning in The X Aspect and by doing so making it my favourite song on the album. It should have been used as the main theme throughout the album IMO, it amazing. That being said, this record is unbelievable the way it is! My only real complaint is that the ending isn´t as epic as expected, given the size of this story.

Totally with you there.  The first couple of listens of X Aspect I thought about skipping then BAM - that melody!  It's not the same, but it relates so closely to the "Evangeline, you lived your life..." section of a "Better Life" - so maybe it's kind of like her theme...since she's you know...not actually alive in it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pdurbin22 on January 31, 2016, 12:27:51 PM
I haven't read through the entire thread so this might be nothing new but the intro to "A Savior in the Square" really reminds me of "Goodbye Blue Sky" by Pink Floyd. I can't be alone in this right?

Not at all - I thought the exact same thing! And of course, the intro to "Fade to Black" borrows four chords from "Goodbye Blue Sky"....but I digress...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 31, 2016, 12:46:30 PM
Reappearing themes I've found so far
Dystopian Overture 0:44 --> The X Aspect
Dystopian Overture 2:57 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Dystopian Overture 3:25 --> A New Beginning
Dystopian Overture 4:00 --> Astonishing
Act of Faythe 3:57 --> A Savior in the Square
Brother, Can You Hear Me? 3:05 --> The Road to Revolution
Ravenskill 4:12 --> When Your Time Has Come
The X Aspect 3:29 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
2285 Entr’acte 0:43 --> Lord Nafaryus
2285 Entr’acte 0:58 -->Three Days
2285 Entr’acte 1:15 --> The Road to Revolution
Losing Faythe 0:19 --> Chosen
Astonishing 1:23 -->, 4:31 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Astonishing 2:13 --> The Answer
Astonishing 3:32 --> The Road to Revolution

Main Theme:
Dystopian Overture 2:28 -->
Lord Nafaryus 2:23 -->
A Savior in the Square 3:43 -->
Act of Faythe 1:06 -->
The Road to Revolution 1:49 -->
Astonishing 2:44 -->
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on January 31, 2016, 01:04:46 PM

Unless I missed something, the NOMACS themselves were completely useless to the story. And that would have been fine, but now they made such a massive deal of these things that when they ultimately never affected the story directly in any way it was a bit disappointing. The story would basically have been the same if they weren't there.


I was thinking this too today.  I don't see how they're part of the story.  I'll have to read the story details on the website.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on January 31, 2016, 01:08:47 PM
Without the Nomac there wouldn't have been a reason for Gabriel to be the chosen one.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on January 31, 2016, 01:10:18 PM
Was it Nafaryus who created the NOMACs, or did they exist before him?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 31, 2016, 01:14:18 PM
JP answered the NOMAC question in his AMA, saying they'd have a bigger role in the future novelization
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lalin1974 on January 31, 2016, 01:35:38 PM
I think it is amazing that The X Aspect rarely been mentioned yet. When I first heard Dystopia Overture I immediately got goosebumps by 0:45-1:00 thinking and hoping the theme would return many times during the album. As far as I have noticed it is only returning in The X Aspect and by doing so making it my favourite song on the album. It should have been used as the main theme throughout the album IMO, it amazing. That being said, this record is unbelievable the way it is! My only real complaint is that the ending isn´t as epic as expected, given the size of this story.

Totally with you there.  The first couple of listens of X Aspect I thought about skipping then BAM - that melody!  It's not the same, but it relates so closely to the "Evangeline, you lived your life..." section of a "Better Life" - so maybe it's kind of like her theme...since she's you know...not actually alive in it.

Totally agree as well. I have listened through the album about 8 times now and that melody from 0.45 of "Dystopian Overture" that returns in "X Aspect" sets the tone for the whole album and I wish it would have recurred more. Kind of like the 2.25 theme of Overture 1928 of SFAM that recurres in One last time and Finally Free.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theaterdream on January 31, 2016, 01:38:58 PM
I finished the entire album once. Disc 1 one day and the other disc a separate day. Before mentioning by thoughts or opinion I must say I love their previous 2 albums (adtoe and dt) immensely.  I never really cared for Dream Theater's metal side. I always liked their more melodic atmospheric style more than straight on metal. Tot is their only album I mostly dislike followed next by SC and BCSL. Though, those latter albums each had a couple songs I like. With everything from the Mangini era I've been loving. It sounds like classic DT stuff. Like they went back to I&w and Awake for inspiration and started fresh from there.

With all that being said, The Astonishing to me is simply Astonishing! I had no problem with the production or sound on this album. Not at all like the last album. James Labrie's voice has been getting better with age in my opinion. The way he has sung on these last 3 albums he sounds like he's singing in a lower tone or something. Much, much better than the previous couple albums. Much stronger sounding lately. J. Petrucci and  J. Rudess sounded incredible. Very creative passages that I cant wait to hear again and discover new things on repeated listens, J, Myung had some awesome bass lines hereand i heard him much better in this mix. M. Mangini was great and the drum sound was fuller sounding.

I need many more listens to fully appreciate The Astonishings  beauty but after only 1 play through it truly is beautiful. I don't at all feel its too long. Maybe because I broke it up into 2 listens. It is melodic with some harder moments sprinkled in at very appropriate moments. It doesn't feel like the harder moments are there just to appease fans of their harder style. Just as the softer tracks are not their for fans like me who enjoy that. It all feels fresh and very deliberate to the story and characters. As I was following along in the included booklet with each track it really helped paint a picture of how the story was unfolding. That and their playing style really helped me connect with this album. For me, this album was melodic, atmospheric,  beautifully epic with just the right amount of harder moments. But, it all felt purposefully intentional.  The music fit the story, charcters and world they had created perfectly.

This album, for me, is easily in my top 3 of all DT albums. Many may disagree with me but on these last three albums I really have been enjoying the direction they have geen heading creatively. Very creative inspiring music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pdurbin22 on January 31, 2016, 01:39:07 PM
Something I really enjoy about this album that didn't hit me at first:

With this being a rock opera and the music needing to breathe in order to tell the story, there's not much room for extended jams and crazy musical passages. Part of what started to bug me about longer DT songs of late was the unnecessary inclusion of these long jams that stuck out like sore thumbs. The worst offenders for me are "Ministry of Lost Souls," "This Dying Soul," "Outcry," "A Nightmare to Remember," & "A Rite of Passage".

But with The Astonishing, these moments are few and far between making them all the sweeter. Stuff like the intro to "A Life Left Behind," the end jam of "Three Days," the middle/end jams of "A New Beginning" and the middle of "Moment of Betrayal" are so damn good because they pop up at just the right time when you need them. I really like that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bacong on January 31, 2016, 01:41:08 PM
I think this album is pretty awesome, btw.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Malt Licky on January 31, 2016, 01:51:33 PM
I have to get this off my chest: The Astonishing is extremely disappointing and underwhelming. In fact, it is very, very bad. I'm not saying this to provoke people or to anger them. Some background: I have been a DT fan for some time.

My favorite DT period---the DT Golden Years, if you will---is the album arc from Scenes From a Memory to Octavarium. After Octavarium, things started turning for the worse. Systematic Chaos, while it was a great album, was missing something. Something I cannot quite put my finger on, but whatever it was, it prevented it from reaching the heights that DT's previous albums had reached. BC&SL, while also an enjoyable album, was missing something, perhaps combined with a dose of lethargy, which left me quietly hoping they would refresh to deliver another great album in the future.

ADToE was actually quite good, and, besides some forgettable tracks (Build Me Up, Beneath the Surface, some parts of Outcry), had some stellar ones (e.g. Lost Not Forgotten, Breaking All Illusions). Then the self-titled album came out, and I was largely disappointed. The lethargy was back, and the creative spark was largely gone such that the album was a bit of a chore to get through, particularly Illumination Theory (though it did have some interesting sections).

The new album, however, is painful to listen to. I have given it 4 or so listens and still the tracks seem to fade into one another, blending into an indistinguishable gray mush of mediocrity. Gone are interesting instrumental sections and in are uninteresting choruses and sections that are 3 parts sappy, 3 parts cheesy, 3 parts pretentious, and 6 parts forgettable. The only tracks that are listenable and somewhat enjoyable are Moment of Betryal and The Gift of Music, but even these are weak. The rest is all so featureless, so forced, so uninspired, so mediocre, so forgettable. It is also missing a progressive element to it---it seems to be mediocre pop ballads with a second or two of some somewhat interesting riffing, quickly to revert back into the pop ballad phase. And Mike Mangini, as talented as he is, seems utterly absent, sounding like a hired gun rather than the band's rhythm heartbeat. It also doesn't help that the story is so uninteresting and dull, and, like the musical elements on display, utterly mediocre and forgettable.

I fear that every new album DT produces (sans ADToE) is one more piece of evidence that goes to show that Portnoy was right and that DT needed a break to refresh. I am very disappointed and hope that they can regain the elements that made Dream Theater great on the next album. For this cycle, it pains me to say that it is sad to see a once-great band be reduced to such a mediocre thing.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bacong on January 31, 2016, 01:53:31 PM
Systematic Chaos great and TA very very bad? come on bro.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Captainchaos204 on January 31, 2016, 01:58:04 PM
The one thing that stands out the most for me (being a pianist) is that Rudess uses real piano and organs, etc.   It really bugs me with the mediocre B3 sound he uses in his songs .  I know its easier for him to use 1 keyboard for his sounds, but having a real piano and organ makes the whole experience that much more immersive for me.  Like, half way through Ravenskill 2:40ish mark.   The B3 gives me chills.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 31, 2016, 01:59:14 PM
I'm about 4 full spins in now.   It's fantastic how everything starts to click and I find myself just immersed in the world they created.  The slow parts don't bother me at all now.  In fact I think many of them are fantastic.

This album truly might have a chance to dethrone one of the "big 3" which for me is SFAM, I&W, SDOIT.   I am not there yet but the fact that I think its a possibility is just amazing.   

Labrie is fantastic on this album.  He has killed it on the last two releases now which is super exciting and this is his best performance by far since SDOIT. 

My only complaint now is that Hymn of a Thousand words is a tad slower than I had hoped.   The climax really happens when Gabriel screams which should have been a bit more pronounced.  The ending of the story seems rushed and its somewhat disappointing that Nafaryus just gives in so easily and suddenly becomes a good guy overnight.

Honestly though the story is far less important to me than the music.   So the fact that music is still incredible throughout, it doesn't really bug me too much that the stories climax is a tad underwhelming.   SFAM is my favorite DT album and I can honestly say I have never actually taken the time to read through the lyrics and dive into the plot.

Anyways, just a brilliant effort.   Its so nice to have a DT album that is just flat out fun to listen to again.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 31, 2016, 02:00:16 PM
Malt Licky you're obviously a fan of prog metal and TA is more on the prog rock side, I'm sure they'll go back to the prog metal sooner or later, they're more comfortable there IMO.
The Astonishing is a DT statement that says "See we know prog rock, we just like doing prog metal" :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on January 31, 2016, 02:02:36 PM
Gone are interesting instrumental sections and in are uninteresting choruses and sections that are 3 parts sappy, 3 parts cheesy, 3 parts pretentious, and 6 parts forgettable.

Forgettable just isn't right. I've got themes all over the album stuck in my head right now, and I've only listened to it once all the way through.

Interesting instrumental sections have been on every single Dream Theater album, including this one, but if they were to completely STOP, I'd be fine with it.

They're good at making music that is theoretically (referring to music theory) complex without devolving (yep, used that word) into meaningless, emotionless runs, and scales, especially given the context of some of the songs. Stuff like THAT often makes their music cheesy for me (do the lyrics really have anything to do with this?), and I'd even argue that THAT sort of material is more pretentious than anything on this album.

This album is essentially the antithesis of that. The music is heavily about its lyrics and story, so when the music goes into the fast runs and scales, it does not seem out of place, given the context of the story.

This album is on the top of my list, and, unlike DT12 at the time of its release, I expect it to stay there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Crow on January 31, 2016, 02:03:23 PM
i just don't understand how a song like "three days" can be "featureless"  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 31, 2016, 02:04:30 PM
It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing" as I have the complete opposite reaction.

To me Octavarium was an utterly uninspired effort and arguably their worst album whereas The Astonishing just oozes with inspiration and is their best album in 15 years... maybe even longer!

But hey, thats the beauty of music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on January 31, 2016, 02:07:30 PM
Quote
My only real complaint is that the ending isn't as epic as expected, given the size of this story.

There is so much wrong with this sentence. It's the most epic ending to a DT album since Octavarium.
The problem I have is that some people are missing the stereotypical long song epic rather than an actual epic ending.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on January 31, 2016, 02:11:52 PM
I've got quite a few spins under my belt now. It's an epic piece of work for certain. It's actually mentally draining to get through
the whole thing because so many songs have a feel like they are an epic closer but then it segues into another epic'ish grandiose
song. I do wish there were a little more dynamics to MM's drums at times but all in all his recording is much improved over
the last 2.

I think I may have to create my own abbreviated version of the album though because I won't often have 2 hours to sit and listen.
Combining the best parts of I and II will serve as The Astonishing 'Light'...

So much thought, effort and orchestration went into this that there should be some critical acclaim. If not us fans should chip
in some pennies and buy them a damn trophy  ;D

One very minor gripe is it's virtually impossible to read the white on white parts of the artwork. I actually got out some magnifying
reading glasses to see some of it.

Still too early to rank but I assume it will be in the top tier of DT albums.

Huge kudos to the entire band! Congrats on the final product and as a long time fan I sure appreciate the risk that they took.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on January 31, 2016, 02:13:00 PM
It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing" as I have the complete opposite reaction.

To me Octavarium was an utterly uninspired effort and arguably their worst album whereas The Astonishing just oozes with inspiration and is their best album in 15 years... maybe even longer!

But hey, thats the beauty of music.
Without the title track, it would be the worst album after WDADU, I agree. But what do you think about Octavarium the song?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on January 31, 2016, 02:22:37 PM
Systematic Chaos great and TA very very bad? come on bro.
Agreed. An opinion that SC was great is a minority amongst the fans. Too early to say for TA, though, but I doubt it ends up in the same hemisphere as SC.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Malt Licky on January 31, 2016, 02:27:13 PM
Malt Licky you're obviously a fan of prog metal and TA is more on the prog rock side, I'm sure they'll go back to the prog metal sooner or later, they're more comfortable there IMO.
The Astonishing is a DT statement that says "See we know prog rock, we just like doing prog metal" :lol

I don't think that's it, unfortunately. I love Images & Words, A Change of Seasons, etc.---all albums that are more prog rock than prog metal, I would think. I'm also a big fan of Transaltantic, and surely they are prog rock. I hate to say it, but I think that The Astonishing is just a bad album. A very bad one, coming from DT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Malt Licky on January 31, 2016, 02:29:10 PM
Systematic Chaos great and TA very very bad? come on bro.
Agreed. An opinion that SC was great is a minority amongst the fans. Too early to say for TA, though, but I doubt it ends up in the same hemisphere as SC.

It is great with caveats, I suppose. All things considered, perhaps "good" is a more appropriate judgment of SC. Even so, it is miles above TA, I submit.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pdurbin22 on January 31, 2016, 02:39:41 PM
A message to Petrucci: as a father of three, you had to know the Xander storyline would induce some tears for those of us with young kids. Dammit John! Thanks for making me cry while rocking...

All that aside, I really enjoy this album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 31, 2016, 02:41:59 PM
And here I am, still refreshing The Astonishing website about every 1 or 2 hour, hope a different video show up in second video slot and something appear when I click NOMACS eyes  :facepalm:
Deep in my heart, I really hope that second video is video clip of Dystopian Overture with a cool 3D animation  :'(
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Krissi91 on January 31, 2016, 02:46:32 PM
On my first listen, I thought there were too many ballads, but after a few more spins I really love these great melodies and James just puts so much emotion into the slower songs. It's a very complex album with many songs not even having a real chorus, but after I got used to their structure, I now appreciate how well the different parts flow into each other.
My favourite songs right now are Ravenskill, Chosen, A new beginning, Three Days, Aspect X, Heaven's Cove. But that changes with every listen ;)
It's a very ambitious piece of music, and I'm glad they're still taking risks this late into their career and don't seem to care about criticism and bad reviews. I can't wait to see how the live show will turn out.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 31, 2016, 02:58:46 PM
It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing".

It still amazes me that people can't accept other people have different tastes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on January 31, 2016, 03:03:23 PM
Personally, I think some folks struggling with the album may have come to it thinking it's something it's not.

The band have been very upfront in saying that it was conceived as a rock opera. In the Eddie Trunk interview, JP said that the best way to listen to it was sitting chilled out, headphones, listening to it all in one sitting.

To me, this makes total sense, as they've written it to be something to be presented on stage - exactly what they're doing with the tour.

If Broadway/West End musical theatre isn't your thing, and your tastes lie elsewhere, that's totally cool, but in that format, the story and characters have to come first, with musical showoffery taking a back seat.

That's something I think they have pulled off amazingly well with TA, but if you're thinking of the album as just a collection of songs, I think you may be doing it a disservice. This one is a different animal altogether..  :tup

Just my opinion, of course..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 31, 2016, 03:04:19 PM
And here I am, still refreshing The Astonishing website about every 1 or 2 hour, hope a different video show up in second video slot and something appear when I click NOMACS eyes  :facepalm:
Deep in my heart, I really hope that second video is video clip of Dystopian Overture with a cool 3D animation  :'(

For years to come, pringkaarwanda continued refreshing The Astonishing page, he lost his job for failure to show up, his friends got together and brought him in for an intervention after cutting off the internet lines in his house to get him off the refresh button, he moved to the sidewalk of a coffee shop to use their wifi and keep trying,  his wife subsequently left him and his kids were taken away by child services.
On January 31th 2022 an RIP thread was made for pringkaarwanda on DTF as he was found on that sidewalk outside the coffee shop with all his fingers bruised and disfigured from clicking the refresh button on The Astonighing page.
RR issued an official apology, on the anniversary on February 1st 2023.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 31, 2016, 03:08:41 PM
I could easily listen to the whole thing in one go but I want to do other stuff :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on January 31, 2016, 03:12:49 PM
And here I am, still refreshing The Astonishing website about every 1 or 2 hour, hope a different video show up in second video slot and something appear when I click NOMACS eyes  :facepalm:
Deep in my heart, I really hope that second video is video clip of Dystopian Overture with a cool 3D animation  :'(

For years to come, pringkaarwanda continued refreshing The Astonishing page, he lost his job for failure to show up, his friends got together and brought him in for an intervention after cutting off the internet lines in his house to get him off the refresh button, he moved to the sidewalk of a coffee shop to use their wifi and keep trying,  his wife subsequently left him and his kids were taken away by child services.
On January 31th 2022 an RIP thread was made for pringkaarwanda on DTF as he was found on that sidewalk outside the coffee shop with all his fingers bruised and disfigured from clicking the refresh button on The Astonighing page.
RR issued an official apology, on the anniversary on February 1st 2023.
Hahahaha, I found this so funny to read  :lol
Please DT, upload second video and make something cool appear when I click NOMAC eyes, so I can die in peace  :lol

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on January 31, 2016, 03:14:48 PM
I could easily listen to the whole thing in one go but I want to do other stuff :lol

People just don't have the time for..

Sorry - that one's been done already.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 31, 2016, 03:18:31 PM
People just don't have the time for two hours and ten minutes of one album in one sitting anymore :emo:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on January 31, 2016, 03:19:06 PM
Systematic Chaos great and TA very very bad? come on bro.
Agreed. An opinion that SC was great is a minority amongst the fans. Too early to say for TA, though, but I doubt it ends up in the same hemisphere as SC.

It is great with caveats, I suppose. All things considered, perhaps "good" is a more appropriate judgment of SC. Even so, it is miles above TA, I submit.
I have to respectfully disagree. Even after 5-6 listens of TA, I've found it much more cohesive and memorable than SC.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Outcrier on January 31, 2016, 03:20:24 PM
It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing" as I have the complete opposite reaction.

Dude, Octavarium is one of their most liked albums after the big four (IAW, Awake,SFAM, SDOIT). It's not anything surprising that some love it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 31, 2016, 03:35:23 PM
To those who insist that there is no dynamics in MM's drumming, is the volume of the snare at the start of A New Beginning the same as the volume of the snare when the groove of the song kicks in?

If your answer is yes, your problem is with your ears. Or your equipment.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Crow on January 31, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
whatever happened to riff-based instrumentals, though
the soloing on this album is generally pretty good but i miss having at least a little of the chaotic bits like Breaking All Illusions, Bridges in the Sky, Outcry, heck, Lost Not Forgotten even has them (and I don't really like that song much)

whereas aside from the overture tracks there's really not much of that on The Astonishing
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 31, 2016, 03:39:46 PM
whatever happened to riff-based instrumentals, though
the soloing on this album is generally pretty good but i miss having at least a little of the chaotic bits like Breaking All Illusions, Bridges in the Sky, Outcry, heck, Lost Not Forgotten even has them (and I don't really like that song much)

whereas aside from the overture tracks there's really not much of that on The Astonishing
The Gift of Music, Moment of Betrayal, My Last Farewell, and A New Beginning have some of that, but yeah, there's certainly much less. I love the solos though so I don't mind one bit.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 31, 2016, 03:43:27 PM
whatever happened to riff-based instrumentals, though
the soloing on this album is generally pretty good but i miss having at least a little of the chaotic bits like Breaking All Illusions, Bridges in the Sky, Outcry, heck, Lost Not Forgotten even has them (and I don't really like that song much)

whereas aside from the overture tracks there's really not much of that on The Astonishing

Because the songs are much shorter and is focused on putting forward the song, not the instrumental. A New Beginning has some of those transitions you are looking for.

What the songs have a lot here though are several transitions in musical themes within a song to reflect conversatioms between characters. Which is actually harder to compose.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: metrojam on January 31, 2016, 03:44:38 PM
It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing".

It still amazes me that people can't accept other people have different tastes.

Hear hear!....It's really annoying me that so many people in here just can't accept that other people having different opinions and tastes to their own is not something to be derided or put down.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 31, 2016, 03:55:13 PM
It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing".

It still amazes me that people can't accept other people have different tastes.

Hear hear!....It's really annoying me that so many people in here just can't accept that other people having different opinions and tastes to their own is not something to be derided or put down.


It amazes me how many people like to take quotes out of context and don't read the rest of my post.   "But hey, thats the beauty of music".     I think thats pretty clear that I am saying the beauty of music is that people have varying tastes.   So not sure what you guys are trying to start here.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on January 31, 2016, 03:55:46 PM
whatever happened to riff-based instrumentals, though
the soloing on this album is generally pretty good but i miss having at least a little of the chaotic bits like Breaking All Illusions, Bridges in the Sky, Outcry, heck, Lost Not Forgotten even has them (and I don't really like that song much)

whereas aside from the overture tracks there's really not much of that on The Astonishing

That's because this is a different kind of Dream Theater album, in case you hadn't heard. ;)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hanz Gruber on January 31, 2016, 03:57:03 PM
Personally, I think some folks struggling with the album may have come to it thinking it's something it's not.

The band have been very upfront in saying that it was conceived as a rock opera. In the Eddie Trunk interview, JP said that the best way to listen to it was sitting chilled out, headphones, listening to it all in one sitting.

To me, this makes total sense, as they've written it to be something to be presented on stage - exactly what they're doing with the tour.

If Broadway/West End musical theatre isn't your thing, and your tastes lie elsewhere, that's totally cool, but in that format, the story and characters have to come first, with musical showoffery taking a back seat.

That's something I think they have pulled off amazingly well with TA, but if you're thinking of the album as just a collection of songs, I think you may be doing it a disservice. This one is a different animal altogether..  :tup

Just my opinion, of course..

That isn;t why I don;t like it as much as I want to like it.  I like rock operas like Savatage - Streets, Dead Winter Dead, and Wake of Magellan.  Those albums are full of songs that stand on their own and actually evoke emotion from me.  I like Dream Theater better than Savatage but Savatage is much better at making rock operas IMO.

Many of these songs sound like lyrics were forced in to tell the story and that the story was more important than the music itself

What I am most disappointed in thus far are that there are brilliant moments within songs that I just don;t really care for as a whole.  These moments are wasting upon me because I don;t want to listen to a song that I don;t care for just for moments of brilliance. 

A lot of songs at the end of disc 1 started sounding like mishmashes used to tell a story.  I never felt that way about Savatage rock operas.  Disc 1 started strong with beautiful songs like The Answer (even though it is short), Savior in the Square, and Act of Faythe.  Most of the songs near the end of disc 1 are not memorable and don;t sound like they can stand on their own.

I also don;t care about the story and feel zero emotion about it.  A Rock Opera like Dead Winter Dead had a great emotional ending as well as The Wake Of Magellan and actually amplified the songs.

I get more feeling and emotion from a song like Goodnight Kiss or Wait for Sleep than anything on this album (God give me the power to pull breath from a breeze and call life from a cold metal frame)  The story and lyrics actually hurt the songs for me.  Many of these would have worked much better as stand alone songs.  Just my opinion. 

Glad that other love it.  So far it just doesn't do much for me.   I don;t rip CD but I may make my own version and cut out about 20 songs. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Crow on January 31, 2016, 03:59:02 PM
you guys can't brush it off by saying "it's a different type of album"  :lol
i know that. that doesn't mean they couldn't vary up their instrumental sections a little when they do have them.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 31, 2016, 04:01:01 PM
It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing" as I have the complete opposite reaction.

To me Octavarium was an utterly uninspired effort and arguably their worst album whereas The Astonishing just oozes with inspiration and is their best album in 15 years... maybe even longer!

But hey, thats the beauty of music.
Without the title track, it would be the worst album after WDADU, I agree. But what do you think about Octavarium the song?

I do like the title track but I think they mailed in the rest.  I go back and forth on which their worst album is between Octavarium and Systematic Chaos because SC has some interesting parts but nothing great while Octavarium is mainly uninspired but does have a pretty decent epic.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hanz Gruber on January 31, 2016, 04:07:08 PM
It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing" as I have the complete opposite reaction.

To me Octavarium was an utterly uninspired effort and arguably their worst album whereas The Astonishing just oozes with inspiration and is their best album in 15 years... maybe even longer!

But hey, thats the beauty of music.
Without the title track, it would be the worst album after WDADU, I agree. But what do you think about Octavarium the song?

I do like the title track but I think they mailed in the rest.  I go back and forth on which their worst album is between Octavarium and Systematic Chaos because SC has some interesting parts but nothing great while Octavarium is mainly uninspired but does have a pretty decent epic.

I really like Octavarium.  The Answer Lies Within is a nice catchy slow song.  The Root of All Evil is heavy and catchy at the same time.  These Wall is catchy as hell.  Octavarium is epic, Panic Attack was crazy at the time and sounded like someone was really having a Panic Attack (in a good way)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 31, 2016, 04:14:08 PM
It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing".

It still amazes me that people can't accept other people have different tastes.

Hear hear!....It's really annoying me that so many people in here just can't accept that other people having different opinions and tastes to their
 own is not something to be derided or put down.


It amazes me how many people like to take quotes out of context and don't read the rest of my post.   "But hey, thats the beauty of music".     I think thats pretty clear that I am saying the beauty of music is that people have varying tastes.   So not sure what you guys are trying to start here.

To add to this, I think its amazing or interesting (if that words makes you all happier) that someone can love Octavarium and hate The Astonishing yet we are all diehard fans of the same band.  Personally I have the opposite opinion which I find fascinating.   I never said he couldn't have that opinion or isn't entitled to it.   That is why I ended my post with "but hey, thats the beauty of music".   Hope that clears it up for you all.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 31, 2016, 04:18:55 PM
It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing" as I have the complete opposite reaction.

To me Octavarium was an utterly uninspired effort and arguably their worst album whereas The Astonishing just oozes with inspiration and is their best album in 15 years... maybe even longer!

But hey, thats the beauty of music.
Without the title track, it would be the worst album after WDADU, I agree. But what do you think about Octavarium the song?

I do like the title track but I think they mailed in the rest.  I go back and forth on which their worst album is between Octavarium and Systematic Chaos because SC has some interesting parts but nothing great while Octavarium is mainly uninspired but does have a pretty decent epic.

I really like Octavarium.  The Answer Lies Within is a nice catchy slow song.  The Root of All Evil is heavy and catchy at the same time.  These Wall is catchy as hell.  Octavarium is epic, Panic Attack was crazy at the time and sounded like someone was really having a Panic Attack (in a good way)

My problems with Octavarium are the production, the obvious nods to bands I don't love (U2, Muse) and the lack of killer Petrucci solos.   With that said, I know this is The Astonishing thread so I don't want to hijack this thing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jayvee3 on January 31, 2016, 04:24:07 PM
Reappearing themes I've found so far
Dystopian Overture 0:44 --> The X Aspect
Dystopian Overture 2:57 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Dystopian Overture 3:25 --> A New Beginning
Dystopian Overture 4:00 --> Astonishing
Act of Faythe 3:57 --> A Savior in the Square
Brother, Can You Hear Me? 3:05 --> The Road to Revolution
Ravenskill 4:12 --> When Your Time Has Come
The X Aspect 3:29 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
2285 Entr’acte 0:43 --> Lord Nafaryus
2285 Entr’acte 0:58 -->Three Days
2285 Entr’acte 1:15 --> The Road to Revolution
Losing Faythe 0:19 --> Chosen
Astonishing 1:23 -->, 4:31 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Astonishing 2:13 --> The Answer
Astonishing 3:32 --> The Road to Revolution

Main Theme:
Dystopian Overture 2:28 -->
Lord Nafaryus 2:23 -->
A Savior in the Square 3:43 -->
Act of Faythe 1:06 -->
The Road to Revolution 1:49 -->
Astonishing 2:44 -->

The Answer, When your time has come and begin again are also all completely connected by the same melody  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JRuless on January 31, 2016, 04:31:23 PM

Reappearing themes I've found so far
Dystopian Overture 0:44 --> The X Aspect
Dystopian Overture 2:57 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Dystopian Overture 3:25 --> A New Beginning
Dystopian Overture 4:00 --> Astonishing
Act of Faythe 3:57 --> A Savior in the Square
Brother, Can You Hear Me? 3:05 --> The Road to Revolution
Ravenskill 4:12 --> When Your Time Has Come
The X Aspect 3:29 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
2285 Entr’acte 0:43 --> Lord Nafaryus
2285 Entr’acte 0:58 -->Three Days
2285 Entr’acte 1:15 --> The Road to Revolution
Losing Faythe 0:19 --> Chosen
Astonishing 1:23 -->, 4:31 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Astonishing 2:13 --> The Answer
Astonishing 3:32 --> The Road to Revolution

Main Theme:
Dystopian Overture 2:28 -->
Lord Nafaryus 2:23 -->
A Savior in the Square 3:43 -->
Act of Faythe 1:06 -->
The Road to Revolution 1:49 -->
Astonishing 2:44 -->

The Answer, When your time has come and begin again are also all completely connected by the same melody  :tup

Dystopian Overture 0:44 --> The X Aspect

I call it the 'Evangeline theme' it's in A Better Life too.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JMSE on January 31, 2016, 04:34:21 PM
Anybody else in love with JP's solo in "When Your Time Has Come" ? Such a melodic moment. :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wideworldofmike on January 31, 2016, 05:16:23 PM
Evangeline's theme is quickly becoming my fav. 1st "solo" in Dystopian Overture.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on January 31, 2016, 05:29:25 PM
The first time I heard Disc One, three or four songs stood out. The second time, a few more. Then a few more, and a few more... Finally after multiple listens, I feel like I have a good grasp on it, and it's awesome! Ready to give Disc Two a spin. :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Woodworker1 on January 31, 2016, 06:04:42 PM
My wife generally doesn't like DT.  I have to force her or bribe her to let me play DT in the car.  Not anymore!  She really likes The Astonishing (as do I). 

Try it out on your wife or girlfriend.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RJ86 on January 31, 2016, 06:06:13 PM

 :tup
I just finally got my first full uninterrupted listen to the whole thing (wife was out to dinner with her friends)... I got my alone time with a pair of headphones. Finally found "That Song" that smacked me in the forehead. "Moment of Betrayal"!
Epic opening, catchy, killer riff.
The rest is catching on. I still can't pass judgement on the album as a whole, but it is definitely catching on!!  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 31, 2016, 06:24:13 PM
Imagine if this becomes staged as a full-blown musical theater production (and the way it is written is that it is stage-ready already). This will do a lot in mainstreaming prog to an audience that normally would not listen to prog.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 31, 2016, 06:26:54 PM
This if freaking crazy how good this album is!    I keep posting here after each listen because it keeps getting better and better.   

I absolutely love rock operas so I am having so much fun with the theatricality of this whole thing.   Labrie is just amazing on this album!!! 

I assumed the top 3 DT albums were completely untouchable (SFAM, I&W, SDOIT) and I feel like its blasphemy to place anything above them but I honestly think this album belongs up there with them and might just be the best of the bunch.   SFAM is one of the all time great albums IMO and this one is honestly rivaling it.   Crazy to say.    One thing I will say for certain is that that this album has definitely left Awake and FII in their dust and those were my number 4 and 5.

If the DT guys are reading this.  Well done gentleman!   I am floored.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chrisbDTM on January 31, 2016, 06:54:16 PM
after a few more listens i'm still underwhelmed. I'm gonna have to listen to it alot more and see if I can come around on it. I think the first two tracks on disc 2 are my favorite at the moment
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jayvee3 on January 31, 2016, 07:02:58 PM
This if freaking crazy how good this album is!    I keep posting here after each listen because it keeps getting better and better.   

I absolutely love rock operas so I am having so much fun with the theatricality of this whole thing.   Labrie is just amazing on this album!!! 

I assumed the top 3 DT albums were completely untouchable (SFAM, I&W, SDOIT) and I feel like its blasphemy to place anything above them but I honestly think this album belongs up there with them and might just be the best of the bunch.   SFAM is one of the all time great albums IMO and this one is honestly rivaling it.   Crazy to say.    One thing I will say for certain is that that this album has definitely left Awake and FII in their dust and those were my number 4 and 5.

If the DT guys are reading this.  Well done gentleman!   I am floored.

I really agree, that upon more listens where the recurring themes really start to surface and become familiar, it is vastly becoming apparent that this will be a top tier album for me. While DT are a band where you always seem to be discovering new things, I tend to find that if I like stuff from the first few listens, it generally stays that way. Without trying to compare too much, I remember vividly that my first listen of 6 Degrees had me a little confused. And while I like it more now for sure, much of it still doesn't grab me the way it seems to grab many others around here. Yet while the self titled album gets slammed more often than not, I enjoyed it immediately, and it still gets regular spins in my rotation. I&W didn't grab me as much many moons ago (ahh, I remember my I&W cassette ;)) But Awake totally did, and thats how it still remains...

Basically, I'm with you in how great the diversity of opinion is on The Astonishing, and it will be really interesting how it fits into everyones collections over time.  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 31, 2016, 07:06:58 PM
I can accept people not liking this album. Musical tastes being subjective, and all.

But to say that the DT guys just phoned it in with this one? With the amount of care that went into making specific musical themes serve story purposes, marking characters with distinct musical styles, and having a narrative that flows well both musically and plot-wise, I find such a criticism LAZY. Just say you don't like it, instead of making unfounded (and most likely, wrong) accusations of "phoning in" on the band who seems to have given much effort and passion in producing this work.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on January 31, 2016, 07:12:23 PM
Evangeline's theme is quickly becoming my fav. 1st "solo" in Dystopian Overture.

I absolutely love this, wherever it crops up in the whole album.

How come the dead person gets the best theme??  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on January 31, 2016, 07:18:44 PM
I can accept people not liking this album. Musical tastes being subjective, and all.

But to say that the DT guys just phoned it in with this one? With the amount of care that went into making specific musical themes serve story purposes, marking characters with distinct musical styles, and having a narrative that flows well both musically and plot-wise, I find such a criticism LAZY. Just say you don't like it, instead of making unfounded (and most likely, wrong) accusations of "phoning in" on the band who seems to have given much effort and passion in producing this work.

I don't think anybody is saying JP, JR or JLB "phoned" anything in. From anything I have seen online, that criticism is levied against JM and MM's performance on the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 31, 2016, 07:36:13 PM
I can accept people not liking this album. Musical tastes being subjective, and all.

But to say that the DT guys just phoned it in with this one? With the amount of care that went into making specific musical themes serve story purposes, marking characters with distinct musical styles, and having a narrative that flows well both musically and plot-wise, I find such a criticism LAZY. Just say you don't like it, instead of making unfounded (and most likely, wrong) accusations of "phoning in" on the band who seems to have given much effort and passion in producing this work.

I don't think anybody is saying JP, JR or JLB "phoned" anything in. From anything I have seen online, that criticism is levied against JM and MM's performance on the album.

There are, even in this thread.

And even those criticisms levied against JM and MM, I think those are basically criticisms against their musical philosophies. If you listen intently to what MM is doing, it is meticulously composed and thought out within the parameters of MM's approach to drumming (that is, not much fills, composing to highlight what the other instruments are doing, a liberal use of speed, a lot of use of bass drums in the orchestration, left-right stereo-feel for the cymbals). JM, also, plays like the old JM within the context of the songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 31, 2016, 07:46:59 PM
you guys can't brush it off by saying "it's a different type of album"  :lol
i know that. that doesn't mean they couldn't vary up their instrumental sections a little when they do have them.

The Gift of Music instrumental has five movements. The instrumental intro of A Life Left Behind also has five. A New Beginning has four up to the outro. Moment of Betrayal also has four.

How many movements in instrumentals do you want in songs that are less than ten minutes long and are primarily song-focused?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Nel on January 31, 2016, 07:47:38 PM
I've had to break up my listening sessions; don't have enough time to listen to all of it in one go. This is one of those albums where there's so much to digest, that I don't think I'll have a solid opinion of it for a long long time.

Initial impressions:
-Better than DT12. I can tell you that right off the bat.
-Album's kind of all over the place. Lots of great sections, lots of corny sections, some stuff feels like filler.
-Because everything seems to flow together, I can't really pinpoint any tracks to memory.
-Even the parts that don't really click with me, I still appreciate them covering all these different musical styles and tones.
-James is ****ing killing it this album. Dude's vocals seem to really pop this time around, especially with all the different characters he has to sing for.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 31, 2016, 07:53:42 PM
I'm absolutely loving this album, I'm already singing along up to Savior in The Square.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jayvee3 on January 31, 2016, 07:57:09 PM
Reappearing themes I've found so far
Dystopian Overture 0:44 --> The X Aspect
Dystopian Overture 2:57 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Dystopian Overture 3:25 --> A New Beginning
Dystopian Overture 4:00 --> Astonishing
Act of Faythe 3:57 --> A Savior in the Square
Brother, Can You Hear Me? 3:05 --> The Road to Revolution
Ravenskill 4:12 --> When Your Time Has Come
The X Aspect 3:29 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
2285 Entr’acte 0:43 --> Lord Nafaryus
2285 Entr’acte 0:58 -->Three Days
2285 Entr’acte 1:15 --> The Road to Revolution
Losing Faythe 0:19 --> Chosen
Astonishing 1:23 -->, 4:31 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Astonishing 2:13 --> The Answer
Astonishing 3:32 --> The Road to Revolution

Main Theme:
Dystopian Overture 2:28 -->
Lord Nafaryus 2:23 -->
A Savior in the Square 3:43 -->
Act of Faythe 1:06 -->
The Road to Revolution 1:49 -->
Astonishing 2:44 -->

The Answer, When your time has come and begin again are also all completely connected by the same melody  :tup

Oh yea, and did you get the connection of the 'Saviour in the Square' and 'Our New World' openings?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 31, 2016, 07:59:30 PM
I think from tracks 1-27 this might just be the greatest DT album ever made.   

However, The stretch from "My last farewell" until the end of the album (excluding "Our New World") is very underwhelming.   

I SO badly want to like "Hymn of a Thousand Words" but I just can't.   It plods along and is super cheesy.  I wish they would have made this a faster paced track and added some virtuosity to it. 

Its because of this final stretch that I wouldn't call this a perfect album but even this stretch is still good.  Its just not incredible like the rest of the album.

I said before that this rivals SFAM but SFAM ends with One Last Time, Spirit Carries On, and Finally Free so I think I retract that statement.

I now have a "Big 4" though rather than a "Big 3".  Where those albums rank within the "Big 4" (SFAM, I&W, SDOIT, TA)  I don't quite know yet
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jayvee3 on January 31, 2016, 08:10:50 PM
I think from tracks 1-27 this might just be the greatest DT album ever made.   

However, The stretch from "My last farewell" until the end of the album (excluding "Our New World") is very underwhelming.   

I SO badly want to like "Hymn of a Thousand Words" but I just can't.   It plods along and is super cheesy.  I wish they would have made this a faster paced track and added some virtuosity to it. 

Its because of this final stretch that I wouldn't call this a perfect album but even this stretch is still good.  Its just not incredible like the rest of the album.

I said before that this rivals SFAM but SFAM ends with One Last Time, Spirit Carries On, and Finally Free so I think I retract that statement.

I now have a "Big 4" though rather than a "Big 3".  Where those albums rank within the "Big 4" (SFAM, I&W, SDOIT, TA)  I don't quite know yet

Do me a favour and stick with 'My Last Farewell' and 'Act of Faythe'. They both completely clicked with me last night, and are real highlights, particularly 'My Last Farewell'. Great recurring themes in 'Act of Faythe' from 'Chosen' too.  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 31, 2016, 08:14:07 PM
I think from tracks 1-27 this might just be the greatest DT album ever made.   

However, The stretch from "My last farewell" until the end of the album (excluding "Our New World") is very underwhelming.   

I SO badly want to like "Hymn of a Thousand Words" but I just can't.   It plods along and is super cheesy.  I wish they would have made this a faster paced track and added some virtuosity to it. 

Its because of this final stretch that I wouldn't call this a perfect album but even this stretch is still good.  Its just not incredible like the rest of the album.

I love My Last Farewell. However, Losing Faythe may have been too long, Whispers in the Wind cold have been combined with Hymn of a Thousand Words, and I agree that Hymn of a Thousand Words could have been faster.

I can see this working in a theatrical production, though. With very gifted actors, they could make this scene very dramatic.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 31, 2016, 08:18:12 PM
I bet you this album is doing incredibly great in Japan, I wonder if there's a source we can find out from, since there are no Japanese people on the internet.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 31, 2016, 08:18:40 PM
I think from tracks 1-27 this might just be the greatest DT album ever made.   

However, The stretch from "My last farewell" until the end of the album (excluding "Our New World") is very underwhelming.   

I SO badly want to like "Hymn of a Thousand Words" but I just can't.   It plods along and is super cheesy.  I wish they would have made this a faster paced track and added some virtuosity to it. 

Its because of this final stretch that I wouldn't call this a perfect album but even this stretch is still good.  Its just not incredible like the rest of the album.

I said before that this rivals SFAM but SFAM ends with One Last Time, Spirit Carries On, and Finally Free so I think I retract that statement.

I now have a "Big 4" though rather than a "Big 3".  Where those albums rank within the "Big 4" (SFAM, I&W, SDOIT, TA)  I don't quite know yet

Do me a favour and stick with 'My Last Farewell' and 'Act of Faythe'. They both completely clicked with me last night, and are real highlights, particularly 'My Last Farewell'. Great recurring themes in 'Act of Faythe' from 'Chosen' too.  :tup

I hope have the same reaction!   I will definitely keep trying.

I agree that Hymn of a Thousand Words may work better on stage. 

The rest of the album has continued to grow on me beautifully so hopefully the final bunch of tracks does the same.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 31, 2016, 08:28:34 PM
I sort of figured out the story function of NOMACS tracks. I initially said that they mark Daryus, but more generally, I think they mark a major action brought about by an Empire character:

Nafaryus demands for Gabriel's surrender in Three Days leads to The Hovering Sojourn of NOMACS looking for Gabriel.

Daryus makes A Tempting Offer to Arhys leads to the NOMACS noting the Digital Discord.

Daryus killing Arhys at The Path That Divides leads to ominous Machine Chatter among the NOMACS.

Nafaryus changing for the good in Our New World leads to the Power Down of the NOMACS.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on January 31, 2016, 08:31:46 PM
On the path that diviiiiiiiides
You are there by myyy siiiiiiide
There will be no betraaaayal toniiiiiiiiight

It gives me chills everytime... and then Arhys dies  :'(  But this song really grew on me. Not that I didn't liked it, but it's now one of the stand out of the album for me.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 31, 2016, 08:32:17 PM
I sort of figured out the story function of NOMACS tracks. I initially said that they mark Daryus, but more generally, I think they mark a major action brought about by an Empire character:

Nafaryus demands for Gabriel's surrender in Three Days leads to The Hovering Sojourn of NOMACS looking for Gabriel.

Daryus makes A Tempting Offer to Arhys leads to the NOMACS noting the Digital Discord.

Daryus killing Arhys at The Path That Divides leads to ominous Machine Chatter among the NOMACS.

Nafaryus changing for the good in Our New World leads to the Power Down of the NOMACS.
Well, Nafaryus changes before Our New World, technically...ONW doesn't really mention him in any form. That's the only one that doesn't really line up.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 31, 2016, 08:36:30 PM
I sort of figured out the story function of NOMACS tracks. I initially said that they mark Daryus, but more generally, I think they mark a major action brought about by an Empire character:

Nafaryus demands for Gabriel's surrender in Three Days leads to The Hovering Sojourn of NOMACS looking for Gabriel.

Daryus makes A Tempting Offer to Arhys leads to the NOMACS noting the Digital Discord.

Daryus killing Arhys at The Path That Divides leads to ominous Machine Chatter among the NOMACS.

Nafaryus changing for the good in Our New World leads to the Power Down of the NOMACS.
Well, Nafaryus changes before Our New World, technically...ONW doesn't really mention him in any form. That's the only one that doesn't really line up.

Yeah, you're right. Maybe it serves the same function of Descent of the NOMACS of bookending the story. Which makes the final track, Astonishing, more of a curtain call song (where the actors receive their applause and get acknowledged) rather than a song that is integral to the plot.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 31, 2016, 08:37:22 PM
Why did Gabriel tell his brother that the NOMAC's were down in Moment of Betrayal?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bacong on January 31, 2016, 08:39:25 PM
get the HDTracks version you guys holy shit
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 31, 2016, 08:42:56 PM
get the HDTracks version you guys holy shit

I don't have access to the CD versions, but if you are referring to the clearer cymbals and bass in the HDTracks compared to the 320 Mp3s that I also have, I would agree with you.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 31, 2016, 08:45:02 PM
I'm really curious how it compares to the CD. With DT12, it was a huge difference, but I feel like with this album it can't really be that drastic. I could be wrong though!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RaiseTheKnife on January 31, 2016, 08:50:39 PM
My wife generally doesn't like DT.  I have to force her or bribe her to let me play DT in the car.  Not anymore!  She really likes The Astonishing (as do I). 

Try it out on your wife or girlfriend.

So glad I bought that extra ticket for my girlfriend. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 31, 2016, 08:57:33 PM
Why did Gabriel tell his brother that the NOMAC's were down in Moment of Betrayal?

Because when the NOMACS are down, he could practice his gift of music. He's also basically informing his brother that he is meeting Nafaryus as arranged by Faythe, which was in the lyrics to Road to Revolution:

"He only sees what he desires to see
It took a while but finally he agreed
Though everything did not turn out as planned
If life's a risk
It's worth a chance
I know where there is faith
There's always hope

They'll meet beneath the stars at Heaven's Cove
The ghosts of yesterday
Once filled the lavish stage
Taking our first step down a new road"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on January 31, 2016, 09:01:12 PM
Do we know that the NOMAC's occasionally powered down?! Do we know Gabriel only sang in their absence?! This is new to me if so.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 31, 2016, 10:12:04 PM
Do we know that the NOMAC's occasionally powered down?! Do we know Gabriel only sang in their absence?! This is new to me if so.

I think music can not be played when the NOMACs are operating because they emit mind-numbing noises.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on January 31, 2016, 10:27:42 PM
My wife generally doesn't like DT.  I have to force her or bribe her to let me play DT in the car.  Not anymore!  She really likes The Astonishing (as do I). 

Try it out on your wife or girlfriend.

My wife wouldn't last 30 seconds into the overture!  :\
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on January 31, 2016, 10:33:46 PM
THIS WAS "PHONED IN"???  Wow.  I just can't imagine even thinking that.  I CAN say that about ADTOE and DT12, but this is too monumental to even consider it.

I'd like to see another band try to put something like this together in the future.  Let me know how it turns out!   :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on January 31, 2016, 10:34:40 PM
Would any of these songs get played on the radio?  I can imagine Our New World being popular.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on January 31, 2016, 10:37:41 PM
"The very soul of what was once real music is now lost in a digital quagmire of emotionless sonic madness."  Sure this isn't applying to 2016??? haha
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on January 31, 2016, 10:43:19 PM
I CAN say that about ADTOE and DT12
You could, and meanwhile I'd say those are 2 of their all-time best albums. Honestly, I can't think of any of their albums as a whole that fit that category (even the ones I don't really like such as SC and TOT).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on January 31, 2016, 10:58:50 PM
Who said this album is phoned in?   Curious as I don't remember hearing that.  This was clearly an extremely ambitious effort like it or not.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on January 31, 2016, 11:04:52 PM
Just read the back story on the website and started tearing up during Act 2!  :'(  Well written.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on January 31, 2016, 11:31:09 PM
Am I the only one who wishes James would do his maniacal laughter at the end of Lord Nafaryus after "Yes we shall see" ? :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zook on January 31, 2016, 11:37:22 PM
I was reading the lyrics while listening and it made for a better experience.

Our New World is easily my favorite song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on January 31, 2016, 11:40:44 PM
Sorry if this was already brought up but it is a long thread.

The X Aspect (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zopCaFSsgc)
Incredible Hulk TV end theme (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzMSfaNXYZg)

I'm not saying they are the same, just that X Aspect made me think of the Hulk theme so much that it is the "Hulk" song for me now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on January 31, 2016, 11:44:36 PM
Sorry if this was already brought up but it is a long thread.

The X Aspect (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zopCaFSsgc)
Incredible Hulk TV end theme (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzMSfaNXYZg)

I'm not saying they are the same, just that X Aspect made me think of the Hulk theme so much that it is the "Hulk" song for me now.
I love the Incredible Hulk theme. I definitely hear the similarity with the first few chords/melody. That being said, it's a pretty simple melody, so I totally see how someone else would have come up with a similar note choice.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 31, 2016, 11:51:21 PM
"Brother can you hear me
I am just a man
Known across the desert
Beyond the shadows in the sand"  ::)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: |KirK| on February 01, 2016, 12:25:36 AM
Guys, you've already said so many things that I don't know what else I can add...
Just let me say that I really love this album and, maybe it's too early, but at this moment I'd put it in the top 3!!! :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 01, 2016, 12:26:39 AM
Anybody else in love with JP's solo in "When Your Time Has Come" ? Such a melodic moment. :)

I love that part!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 01, 2016, 12:43:59 AM
Why did Gabriel tell his brother that the NOMAC's were down in Moment of Betrayal?

I've got a feeling that it's another mistake in the lyrics boklet. It makes much more sense if Arhys is the one singing the first two verses, and gabriel the third. That makes it more like a conversation.
Arhys is nervous and hasty in his desicions, and desperatley tells Gabriel there's no time to loose. The parts sounds very much like the talk of a militia leader, and not that of a musical artist.
Then the third verse is Gabriels response to that, noting that his brother was acting very strange.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on February 01, 2016, 12:54:29 AM
I thought it made sense because Arhys is about to betray Gabriel, hence being nervous and on edge. Gabriel has a plan, but Arhys has one of his own.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 01, 2016, 01:22:12 AM
Why did Gabriel tell his brother that the NOMAC's were down in Moment of Betrayal?

I've got a feeling that it's another mistake in the lyrics boklet. It makes much more sense if Arhys is the one singing the first two verses, and gabriel the third. That makes it more like a conversation.
Arhys is nervous and hasty in his desicions, and desperatley tells Gabriel there's no time to loose. The parts sounds very much like the talk of a militia leader, and not that of a musical artist.
Then the third verse is Gabriels response to that, noting that his brother was acting very strange.

It's not a mistake because that information given by Gabriel of the meeting with Nafaryus (as arranged by Faythe in Road to Revolution) is the "secret sold" by Arhys to Daryus.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Astonished on February 01, 2016, 01:25:51 AM
Did anyone get Faythe's theme in The Walking Shadow (When you hear Daryus' walking before accidentally stabbing Faythe)? You hear a choir faintly humming her theme. It's so eeriely done and subtle. And it made one of my favourite songs on it even better.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: serrano on February 01, 2016, 02:42:20 AM
Did anyone get Faythe's theme in The Walking Shadow (When you hear Daryus' walking before accidentally stabbing Faythe)? You hear a choir faintly humming her theme. It's so eeriely done and subtle. And it made one of my favourite songs on it even better.

I don't think it is so subtle, it was the hint that the walking shadow is Faythe.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Astonished on February 01, 2016, 03:00:17 AM
Really? I always thought The Walking Shadow would refer as Daryus' nickname because of Arabelle's line in A Life Left Behind. Thought it suited him in a badass way.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 01, 2016, 03:09:15 AM
I have no idea what the story is. :lol

I've just been enjoying the music and vocals. I haven't been paying attention to the story at all.

Now I finally have the CD - I can read the lyrics and the song 'planations on the astonishing site :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlackInk on February 01, 2016, 03:12:19 AM
"Brother can you hear me
I am just a man
Known across the desert
Beyond the shadows in the sand"  ::)

Funny, I have actually been humming that specific mash-up all morning, and was doing so while scrolling and seeing your post.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 01, 2016, 03:15:42 AM
Why did Gabriel tell his brother that the NOMAC's were down in Moment of Betrayal?

I've got a feeling that it's another mistake in the lyrics boklet. It makes much more sense if Arhys is the one singing the first two verses, and gabriel the third. That makes it more like a conversation.
Arhys is nervous and hasty in his desicions, and desperatley tells Gabriel there's no time to loose. The parts sounds very much like the talk of a militia leader, and not that of a musical artist.
Then the third verse is Gabriels response to that, noting that his brother was acting very strange.
I don't think so. Nafaryus presumably powers down the NOMACs to give Gabriel and Faythe the chance to speak/sing, and Gabriel tells Arhys that. All makes sense as is.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on February 01, 2016, 03:24:56 AM
From DT website:

"Recognizing his son’s captor to be Prince Daryus and keeping X’s safety in mind, he immediately withdraws any efforts to apprehend the prince and instead asks him what he wants. Daryus makes him an offer that will put Arhys in an extremely complicated and life altering position…If Arhys delivers Gabriel to him, Prince Daryus will in return guarantee the safety, protection and prosperity of Xander for the rest of his life..."

Shouldn't the word "Arhys" appearing in bold above be replaced by "Xander"?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on February 01, 2016, 03:28:56 AM
From DT website:

"Recognizing his son’s captor to be Prince Daryus and keeping X’s safety in mind, he immediately withdraws any efforts to apprehend the prince and instead asks him what he wants. Daryus makes him an offer that will put Arhys in an extremely complicated and life altering position…If Arhys delivers Gabriel to him, Prince Daryus will in return guarantee the safety, protection and prosperity of Xander for the rest of his life..."

Shouldn't the word "Arhys" appearing in bold above be replaced by "Xander"?

Reading it again ... I am wrong ... it should be Arhys... Sorry  :blush
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Fluffy Lothario on February 01, 2016, 03:42:47 AM
So, making use of the Best Songs on TA thread, I tallied which songs showed up the most and listened to the top ten or so.

They were ok.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 01, 2016, 04:00:31 AM
Life imitates art.


My CD was THREE DAYS late :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Nihil-Morari on February 01, 2016, 04:28:14 AM
After a first listen last Friday, with headphones and booklet, I'm now trying a casual listen. It's a very good album, but still way too much to digest. I don't even know a fifth of the album. Most of it feels like new material, though it's my second listen.
I'm gonna need another 10 listens before I can make my mind up.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 01, 2016, 04:49:40 AM
I just hope people don't dismiss TA as "too much to digest" this early into the digesting process. The very best albums and pieces of music don't reveal everything immediately. You still find little moments you never spotted before, sometimes years after your first listen.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Nihil-Morari on February 01, 2016, 04:52:05 AM
I just hope people don't dismiss TA as "too much to digest" this early into the digesting process. The very best albums and pieces of music don't reveal everything immediately. You still find little moments you never spotted before, sometimes years after your first listen.

Oh yeah, totally. A couple of my favorite albums ever are double albums. I'm looking forward to the process of digesting
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 01, 2016, 04:52:13 AM
I just hope people don't dismiss TA as "too much to digest" this early into the digesting process. The very best albums and pieces of music don't reveal everything immediately. You still find little moments you never spotted before, sometimes years after your first listen.

I've give it plenty of chance to digest, I just didn't like the flavour of a lot of it. :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 01, 2016, 04:54:46 AM
Yes. The album is best enjoyed digested in small doses.

It will produce easy to manage nuggets...

..which you can then flush away in the toilet of memory ???

I dunno where this is going tbh.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 01, 2016, 04:56:30 AM
Yes. The album is best enjoyed digested in small doses.

It will produce easy to manage nuggets...

..which you can then flush away in the toilet of memory ???

I dunno where this is going tbh.

Well, are you talking to yourself? Because YOU made that remark! :rollin :rollin :rollin

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 01, 2016, 04:59:48 AM
I just hope people don't dismiss TA as "too much to digest" this early into the digesting process. The very best albums and pieces of music don't reveal everything immediately. You still find little moments you never spotted before, sometimes years after your first listen.


??? Did i ?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 01, 2016, 05:06:41 AM
I just hope people don't dismiss TA as "too much to digest" this early into the digesting process. The very best albums and pieces of music don't reveal everything immediately. You still find little moments you never spotted before, sometimes years after your first listen.


??? Did i ?

Ooops! My bad!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on February 01, 2016, 05:08:09 AM
These shows could end up being JLB's most difficult ever. He will need lots of tea and honey.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 01, 2016, 05:11:49 AM
These shows could end up being JLB's most difficult ever. He will need lots of tea and honey.

Yes, all that is gonna be tough to say the least.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pettor on February 01, 2016, 05:23:15 AM
Wow. The third time listening to this and it's definitely a grower. Finally a lot of the melodies are coming to life that I didn't hear the first time. LaBrie is on fire is doing his best work to date which for me is great, always loved his smoother voice. A Savior In The Square just turned out as a favorite, which is a bit surprising :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enalya on February 01, 2016, 05:34:04 AM
Still loving the album. Up until now Three Days is my favourite song, it just has it all. And that laugh is just amazingsexycool.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Art on February 01, 2016, 05:41:50 AM
The album keeps getting better and better here. A Tempting Offer is a song that i´ve just discovered how much i like it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on February 01, 2016, 05:50:47 AM
I loved this from 1st listen, but after 7, things are musically fitting together, and it just keeps growing to notches unknown! :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Curious Orange on February 01, 2016, 06:08:40 AM
While most of the "songs" are pretty good, I just don't like the way they're only 2 minutes long before giving way to random excerpts from other songs and then just stopping. Most of them are just stitching together the same half-dozen refrains in different orders anyway.

It's a hugely ambitious project, sure, and very cleverly done, but after listening to it over the weekend, I'm not sure their reach doesn't exceed their grasp.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 01, 2016, 06:09:24 AM
After a first listen last Friday, with headphones and booklet, I'm now trying a casual listen. It's a very good album, but still way too much to digest. I don't even know a fifth of the album. Most of it feels like new material, though it's my second listen.
I'm gonna need another 10 listens before I can make my mind up.
After 5 full listens and another listen of a handful of songs, I feel I've got a pretty good grip on the album now. Obviously there will be all sorts of details to listen out for (I hadn't noticed Faythe's theme in The Walking Shadow until I read about it here, for example).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Train of Naught on February 01, 2016, 06:11:27 AM
There's only a couple of albums that I'm as excited about as this one, 2015 was an amazing year for music, but this album keeps growing on me on every listen, I know I'm kinda getting ahead of myself but I can very easily see this album being top half DT material, might even crack the top 3.

Like I predicted though, the 'standout' tracks of the first few listen won't be as shockingly good as they were on first listen compared to the other songs, songs like Three Days and Lord Nafaryus, I still love Three Days very much though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 01, 2016, 06:13:39 AM
While most of the "songs" are pretty good, I just don't like the way they're only 2 minutes long before giving way to random excerpts from other songs and then just stopping. Most of them are just stitching together the same half-dozen refrains in different orders anyway.
Not everyone will dig that, for sure, but I don't think the way you've put it is very fair. JP wrote a narrative, and then they put the music to that narrative, so recurring themes represent characters and situations. So it's not a case of the same refrains popping up at random; it's about what's happening to the characters and the story.

I think it actually works very well. Ok it makes it harder to dig into an individual song in some ways, but then there are some great themes that come back later on. A great example is Evangeline's theme - in A Better Life, it comes as a bridge section late on and isn't repeated. On its own I might have thought it was a waste of a great chorus, but then it reprises in The X Aspect. It makes sense narratively, and is great when it comes back.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 01, 2016, 06:16:44 AM
The one thing bugging me is that a few of the tracks have that same slow-down crescendo ( rallentando ? )  as if they were ending an epic.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Curious Orange on February 01, 2016, 06:19:52 AM
Yes, but if you look at something like Les Mis, each of the characters has a "signature theme" that pops up throughout the musical. But when each of those characters sings their spotlight song, those songs are self contained and "uncontaminated" by the other themes. It's just what is annoying me at the moment. I'm loving songs like A Life Left Behind, for example, but then there's the Arrabelle/Darius bit at the end, and it kind of spoils the flow of the song as a whole.

Just my $0.02.
 

Perhaps it would help if I started thinking of this as one 130 minute piece of music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on February 01, 2016, 06:24:36 AM
The one thing bugging me is that a few of the tracks have that same slow-down crescendo ( rallentando ? )  as if they were ending an epic.

It is the BUG effect...nevermind  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: serrano on February 01, 2016, 06:31:46 AM
While most of the "songs" are pretty good, I just don't like the way they're only 2 minutes long before giving way to random excerpts from other songs and then just stopping. Most of them are just stitching together the same half-dozen refrains in different orders anyway.
Not everyone will dig that, for sure, but I don't think the way you've put it is very fair. JP wrote a narrative, and then they put the music to that narrative, so recurring themes represent characters and situations. So it's not a case of the same refrains popping up at random; it's about what's happening to the characters and the story.

I think it actually works very well. Ok it makes it harder to dig into an individual song in some ways, but then there are some great themes that come back later on. A great example is Evangeline's theme - in A Better Life, it comes as a bridge section late on and isn't repeated. On its own I might have thought it was a waste of a great chorus, but then it reprises in The X Aspect. It makes sense narratively, and is great when it comes back.

I found the Faythe Theme in The Walking Shadow quite obvious, but it can be because Faythe's theme stood out quite soon for me, it is just pure beauty.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: kaos2900 on February 01, 2016, 06:38:33 AM
So far I'm loving the album and I haven't even started the second disc yet! I'm really going to take my time and absorb the first disc this week and dive into disc 2 this weekend. That way it's like getting two new DT albums! I'm 3 listens in to disc 1 and it gets better every time. My 3 year old is even singing the "Evangeline" part from A Better Life. The melodies are stuck in my head. James sounds incredible. Way too early to rank but I think it will be up there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Chino on February 01, 2016, 07:04:11 AM
The twenty seconds following 1:22 in Lord Nafaryus might be the most annoying, unpleasant piece of audio DT has ever released. Other than that, I really like this album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Chino on February 01, 2016, 07:06:17 AM
These shows could end up being JLB's most difficult ever. He will need lots of tea and honey.

Yes, all that is gonna be tough to say the least.

B.Lee

I'm wondering if they're going to play to a click track and have some vocal parts be triggered..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 01, 2016, 07:07:53 AM
I believe i read/saw/heard an interview where he said that some vocal lines would be playback. This was to make it more like a conversation, and not have him standing there talking to himself.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: craig1928 on February 01, 2016, 07:14:27 AM
I believe i read/saw/heard an interview where he said that some vocal lines would be playback. This was to make it more like a conversation, and not have him standing there talking to himself.

yeah JLB said it on the metalsucks podcast, said 99% of it will still be him though
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 01, 2016, 07:23:52 AM
Yes, but if you look at something like Les Mis, each of the characters has a "signature theme" that pops up throughout the musical. But when each of those characters sings their spotlight song, those songs are self contained and "uncontaminated" by the other themes. It's just what is annoying me at the moment. I'm loving songs like A Life Left Behind, for example, but then there's the Arrabelle/Darius bit at the end, and it kind of spoils the flow of the song as a whole.

Just my $0.02.
For sure and I totally get why you and some others wouldn't like it so much, though personally I think your example is terrible as I absolutely adore the end of A Life Left Behind, which completely makes the song for me. That's actually, in my opinion, one of the most coherent and self-contained songs on the album. Kinda reminds me of The Bigger Picture, structurally.

Quote
Perhaps it would help if I started thinking of this as one 130 minute piece of music.
Yeah, it might. I'm certainly approaching it that way, but then I tend to approach almost all albums that way anyway regardless of whether they are concept albums or rock operas or not.

I found the Faythe Theme in The Walking Shadow quite obvious, but it can be because Faythe's theme stood out quite soon for me, it is just pure beauty.
Could be partly that, as I don't find that theme so exciting. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on February 01, 2016, 07:36:26 AM
Holy smokes, I'm really liking this album a lot. Soooo much to digest
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tumdace on February 01, 2016, 07:37:52 AM
I get SOOOO pumped when I hear the transition from 2285 Entr'acte to Moment of Betrayal.

Also, this album feels like the most proggy album they have done since SDOIT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikemangioy on February 01, 2016, 07:40:43 AM
A Life Left Behind has the most unexpected intro and outro for any ballads ever. I'm in love with Daryus' parts.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 01, 2016, 07:55:49 AM
A Life Left Behind has the most unexpected intro and outro for any ballads ever. I'm in love with Daryus' parts.

That was one of the very few weaknesses i found in the album. I would like the full song to use the intro theme, because it's just so incredibly good.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 01, 2016, 07:57:10 AM
I don't envy JLB, he will be missing these nice long water breaks during the next tour, seriously I think it will be the most he ever worked in a DT concert :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 01, 2016, 08:00:48 AM
I don't envy JLB, he will be missing these nice long water breaks during the next tour, seriously I think it will be the most he ever worked in a DT concert :lol

Agreed - this has probably got the highest ratio of vocals to instrumentals of any DT album.

Hope he's got a nice long holiday planned at the end of the tour!  :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 01, 2016, 08:02:44 AM
I don't envy JLB, he will be missing these nice long water breaks during the next tour, seriously I think it will be the most he ever worked in a DT concert :lol

Agreed - this has probably got the highest ratio of vocals to instrumentals of any DT album.

No doubt about it! I'm sure somebody has figured out the vocal to instrumental ratio for previous albums, and will probably work it out for TA at some point too.
Hopefully the intermission will be enough for it not to be too taxing on JLB.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wizard of Thought on February 01, 2016, 08:11:15 AM
Sorry if this what already mentioned before, but why is Xander sometimes simply called X while all other characters are always mentioned in their full name?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 01, 2016, 08:11:26 AM
Quite a few of the songs have at least 1 minute of instrumental introduction before JLB's vocals come in. Heaven's Cove's introduction is a good 2:30 long out of 4:19. So there are a few decent breaks for him to run backstage and take on board fluids.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: shadow1psc on February 01, 2016, 08:12:34 AM
34 pages to get through, but can I just say now that it only took a second listen for this to go from "Huh, that was an album" to "HOLY  :censored THAT WAS  :censored AWESOME  :censored " I'm super impressed and I can't wait to see this live!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: metrojam on February 01, 2016, 08:13:21 AM
Quite a few of the songs have at least 1 minute of instrumental introduction before JLB's vocals come in. Heaven's Cove's introduction is a good 2:30 long out of 4:19. So there are a few decent breaks for him to run backstage and take on board fluids.

More like damn piano than "instrumental"!! LOL
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: r3d86 on February 01, 2016, 08:14:49 AM
My one question is why did Gabriel save only Faythe and not Arhys too?

Because they wrote that  :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 01, 2016, 08:21:26 AM
Sorry if this what already mentioned before, but why is Xander sometimes simply called X while all other characters are always mentioned in their full name?

From https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks

"Arhys also has another reason to want to be free of this life of adversity… his eight year old son Xander whom he affectionately calls ‘X’."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pdurbin22 on February 01, 2016, 08:21:56 AM
I saw an earlier thread where someone pointed out that Daryus got off way too easy for being such a prick and killing (or attempting to kill) two characters. He kind of just disappears after that, until his mother Arabelle says "I forgive you, especially with your new impairment."  I looked at the lyrics to see if I missed something, but I didn't. Finally, I read the track notes on the microsite and saw it - he's permanently deaf in a new world full of music, as a result of Gabriel's eardrum-shattering scream. That makes much more sense!

Anyone else notice that this key point was missing from the actual lyrics - or am I still missing it there somewhere?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 01, 2016, 08:28:07 AM
I saw an earlier thread where someone pointed out that Daryus got off way too easy for being such a prick and killing (or attempting to kill) two characters. He kind of just disappears after that, until his mother Arabelle says "I forgive you, especially with your new impairment."  I looked at the lyrics to see if I missed something, but I didn't. Finally, I read the track notes on the microsite and saw it - he's permanently deaf in a new world full of music, as a result of Gabriel's eardrum-shattering scream. That makes much more sense!

Anyone else notice that this key point was missing from the actual lyrics - or am I still missing it there somewhere?

It's very subtle, but in Astonishing:

[Arabelle]
My prince, my son
You got lost along the way
In light of this new burden that you face
You are forgiven on this day!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 01, 2016, 08:32:20 AM
I finally listened to the album on Sunday afternoon with my friend.  I read aloud the song meanings from the website before each track and then we listened and discussed. 

It's an awful lot to take in for one sitting.  The story has a lot of depth (and I haven't even looked at the lyrics).  The music has very few chorus' and catch points so tracks as wholes did not necessarily stick out so much.  It felt all like one big song (or maybe two for each act). 

The story is pretty good and interesting, the music was very nice, but I need more listens before I make any judgements on the album, just too much to digest.

My one question is why did Gabriel save only Faythe and not Arhys too?

Because they wrote that  :rollin

I think it is because Arhys was already dead, where as Faythe was "dying"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: changing_seasons on February 01, 2016, 08:41:23 AM
Is there any word on a guitar or keyboard tab book for this album? That would be pretty awesome to have for a project of this size!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pdurbin22 on February 01, 2016, 08:44:54 AM
I saw an earlier thread where someone pointed out that Daryus got off way too easy for being such a prick and killing (or attempting to kill) two characters. He kind of just disappears after that, until his mother Arabelle says "I forgive you, especially with your new impairment."  I looked at the lyrics to see if I missed something, but I didn't. Finally, I read the track notes on the microsite and saw it - he's permanently deaf in a new world full of music, as a result of Gabriel's eardrum-shattering scream. That makes much more sense!

Anyone else notice that this key point was missing from the actual lyrics - or am I still missing it there somewhere?

It's very subtle, but in Astonishing:

[Arabelle]
My prince, my son
You got lost along the way
In light of this new burden that you face
You are forgiven on this day!

Yeah, I did catch that "new burden that you face" line, but just didn't know what that burden was until I read the online description. Maybe that was intentional so that we'd all go to the site to catch some extra nuggets of info, which after some thought is kinda cool. Get 90% of the story from the album, but look for clues elsewhere to get the other 10%. Keeps us engaged.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 01, 2016, 08:50:58 AM
Yeah, I did catch that "new burden that you face" line, but just didn't know what that burden was until I read the online description. Maybe that was intentional so that we'd all go to the site to catch some extra nuggets of info, which after some thought is kinda cool. Get 90% of the story from the album, but look for clues elsewhere to get the other 10%. Keeps us engaged.

Yeah - I don't think there's enough in the lyrics alone to make it totally clear. Hopefully there'll be some visuals in the show to make it more obvious what's happening. Daryus clapping his hands over his ears and writhing around in pain, that sort of thing..  :) :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 01, 2016, 08:59:57 AM
It might have sounded better if songs flowed in and out of the NOMAC tracks instead of them being stand alone.  Then they would have been more like transitional sounds between songs.  It sounds awkward the way it is now to me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: 7StringedBeast on February 01, 2016, 09:01:13 AM
After listening to this album, I'm just really sad and disappointed with it.  I was hoping for the creative spark and energy of SFAM, but all I got was sleepy ballads that quite literally made me fall asleep... twice.  Some of the high moments were really really high for me.  They'd get into this great part and then it would just stop and we'd go back to some slow piano ballad thing.

Also, all the ballads are the pretty much the same.  Start with piano/acoustic, do a verse, then have the drums do a 1 measure fill.  This happens I think about 7 times on the album. 

I just feel like they never get into anything in this album.  I feel like the music is just one long drone with some brilliant playing thrown in, only to be thrown away just as quickly as it showed up.

The problem to me is that DT are really great musicians.  Their writing as of late has felt uninspired to me, though.  One thing I always thought about JP was that his lyrics were not very good.  Then he decides to take on writing an entire rock opera and to me, the story is trite.  It's just cliche after cliche with lyrics that just hit right on the nose the whole time.  So, I think this album was set up to failure from the beginning.  I think they would have been better off having an actual writer come in to do the story and then they do the music for it.  Maybe that would have helped the emotional part come through.

Also, the fade out of A new beginning has go to be the absolute biggest let down I have ever heard in music.   That groove and solo are so god damn amazing and then it just fades out?!  This, to me, feels like the most creatively bankrupt thing I have ever heard from DT.  I mean, what happened to figuring out transitions and making the music have flow?  God, this just let me down in ways I don't even understand. 

I'm actually considering selling my ticket to the RC show.

Anyways, I'm super sad that this album missed the mark for me.  I'll just keep listening to 8v and earlier because that is still some of the best music out there.  I just for once would like to get a DT album that I feel really shows what they are capable of.  I don't know why, but I just feel they can do so much better.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 01, 2016, 09:03:28 AM
My one question is why did Gabriel save only Faythe and not Arhys too?

Because they wrote that  :rollin

I think that's because Faythe was at the brink of death, wheras Ahrys was already dead.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 01, 2016, 09:03:40 AM
The twenty seconds following 1:22 in Lord Nafaryus might be the most annoying, unpleasant piece of audio DT has ever released.
That is not possible, there is no Bebot played during that section.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pdurbin22 on February 01, 2016, 09:09:29 AM
The twenty seconds following 1:22 in Lord Nafaryus might be the most annoying, unpleasant piece of audio DT has ever released.

See, and I loved that part! To each their own...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 01, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
That part annoys me too, but I've gotten used to it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on February 01, 2016, 09:18:39 AM
I actually love that section  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlackInk on February 01, 2016, 09:19:41 AM
I think that section is fine. Nothing that stuck with me, but it was fine.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 01, 2016, 09:23:28 AM
Anyone else let down by the "scream"?  I read the passage before listening and was so excited to here that, and then laughed at it.  Even my brother who was in the other room chimed in for that one part, "THAT?! that was the scream? lol"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on February 01, 2016, 09:44:03 AM
Also, the fade out of A new beginning has go to be the absolute biggest let down I have ever heard in music.   That groove and solo are so god damn amazing and then it just fades out?!

I agree with this part of your post and it actually has been discussed in it's own thread; https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=45729.0

The rest of your post I could not disagree with more, but appreciate the thoughts rather than, "It sucks".

IMO, this has been growing on me with every spin, and am absolutely loving it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: skipreid on February 01, 2016, 10:08:35 AM
I don't like it. At all. I am a huge DT fan and have seen them numerous times. I was looking forward to this tour, but I won't be going to watch them perform this album. I just couldn't get into it. Of course the musicianship is incredible. I also feel the this is James' best album of vocals. He was brilliant. However after listening to the album 3 times, I can't remember ONE single track that stands out that made me hum or sing a chorus to or catchy riff. For me, the tracks are too short and they never got into songs. I guess it's just a rock opera that HAS to be listened to over the entire act. To me, they focused way too much on the story and characters than the music. I assume now that this tour will be more of a visual play and DT just happens to be standing there playing background tracks. That's just not my thing. So for me, The Astonishing was a big let down and I will pass on it. I also didn't like BCaSL. I would rank this one right down near the bottom with it. I will just listen to Score for a while to restore my FAYTHE....see what I did there?   
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on February 01, 2016, 10:21:56 AM
I love the album but I think some of the critiques are fair.

The way "The Life Left Behind" goes from amazing intro to poppy ballad is definitely strange.   Although I still like the whole song it would have been nice if they build something vocally off of that intro. 

Also agree that they have a tendency to always build up their songs to an epic.   Not every song needs to have an epic climax as it often dilutes the songs where a climax is truly necessary.

I happen to love the fade out in The New Beginning though... I think its sounds awesome. 

There are definitely several low key moments on this album where you can actually feel the band holding back the virtuosity.  Clearly their comfort spot is having more virtuosity.  See "The Hymn of a Thousand Words"

Yet despite some of its flaws its still incredible.  Its the most inviting album to listen to since SDOIT and the songs have been in my head all day.    I love it and while it may not be as perfect or tight as some of their classic albums.  It definitely rivals some of them due to the sheer size and ambition displayed.   

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 01, 2016, 10:24:45 AM
I don't like it. At all. I am a huge DT fan and have seen them numerous times. I was looking forward to this tour, but I won't be going to watch them perform this album. I just couldn't get into it. Of course the musicianship is incredible. I also feel the this is James' best album of vocals. He was brilliant. However after listening to the album 3 times, I can't remember ONE single track that stands out that made me hum or sing a chorus to or catchy riff. For me, the tracks are too short and they never got into songs. I guess it's just a rock opera that HAS to be listened to over the entire act. To me, they focused way too much on the story and characters than the music. I assume now that this tour will be more of a visual play and DT just happens to be standing there playing background tracks. That's just not my thing. So for me, The Astonishing was a big let down and I will pass on it. I also didn't like BCaSL. I would rank this one right down near the bottom with it. I will just listen to Score for a while to restore my FAYTHE....see what I did there?

 So we did not hear the same album. Plenty of catchy melodies for me. To say that they did not write songs is beyond my understanding. Sorry, mate, to each their own but... Some tracks still don't click with me, but it's not because they are not songs.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 01, 2016, 10:28:23 AM
I love the album but I think some of the critiques are fair.

This is another thing that I find unique about The Astonishing; I absolutely love it yet I completely understand where those who don't are coming from.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 01, 2016, 10:33:54 AM
I love the album but I think some of the critiques are fair.

This is another thing that I find unique about The Astonishing; I absolutely love it yet I completely understand where those who don't are coming from.
I would hope most people were able to understand each other's opinions most of the time!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on February 01, 2016, 10:35:57 AM
There are definitely issues I have with the album but I love rock operas so much!   Dream theater doing a rock opera is paradise for me.  So I can overlook some of the flaws.

I can definitely understand someone who hates rock operas having major issues with the astonishing. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pdurbin22 on February 01, 2016, 10:38:33 AM
Anyone else notice that that the chorus chord progression in "Three Days" (and its reprise in "2285 Entr'acte), sounds like the part in "Raw Dog" from 1:36-2:05? Especially the string sweeps...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Evermind on February 01, 2016, 10:40:17 AM
Anyone else notice that that the chorus chord progression in "Three Days" (and its reprise in "2285 Entr'acte), sounds like the part in "Raw Dog" from 1:36-2:05? Especially the string sweeps...

Nope, because I honestly don't remember how any part from Raw Dog sounds.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 01, 2016, 10:45:39 AM
Imagine if this album was huge and a movie was made out of it which also catapulted DT into the big leagues...

Portnoy : :emo:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 01, 2016, 10:47:23 AM
I highly doubt it would be successful as a movie.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 01, 2016, 10:47:48 AM
It might just be my headphones being a bit bassy - but after a while the album seems to get a bit muddy ?

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 01, 2016, 10:48:41 AM
It's already a variant sub story to Game of Thrones.  Couldn't help but laugh about the parallels while reading the story yesterday.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: NunoTenniscourt on February 01, 2016, 10:57:06 AM
Also, the fade out of A new beginning has go to be the absolute biggest let down I have ever heard in music.   That groove and solo are so god damn amazing and then it just fades out?!  This, to me, feels like the most creatively bankrupt thing I have ever heard from DT.  I mean, what happened to figuring out transitions and making the music have flow?  God, this just let me down in ways I don't even understand. 

I've seen this complaint numerous times in this thread, and I'm not quite sure I understand it. This section is almost three minutes long, isn't it? The fade out really doesn't feel abrupt to me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 01, 2016, 10:57:57 AM
:lol someone else complained that the Best Of Times solo fades out...

So, like a three minute solo is too SHORT ?! :rollin

Only prog fans.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: 7StringedBeast on February 01, 2016, 11:00:24 AM
Also, the fade out of A new beginning has go to be the absolute biggest let down I have ever heard in music.   That groove and solo are so god damn amazing and then it just fades out?!  This, to me, feels like the most creatively bankrupt thing I have ever heard from DT.  I mean, what happened to figuring out transitions and making the music have flow?  God, this just let me down in ways I don't even understand. 

I've seen this complaint numerous times in this thread, and I'm not quite sure I understand it. This section is almost three minutes long, isn't it? The fade out really doesn't feel abrupt to me.

It's not abrupt.  It's lazy song writing and DT is a band that has some of the greatest transitions from song to song historically.  I felt like they were just like, welp, we got nothing here, so fade out.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Chino on February 01, 2016, 11:00:49 AM
Also, the fade out of A new beginning has go to be the absolute biggest let down I have ever heard in music.   That groove and solo are so god damn amazing and then it just fades out?!  This, to me, feels like the most creatively bankrupt thing I have ever heard from DT.  I mean, what happened to figuring out transitions and making the music have flow?  God, this just let me down in ways I don't even understand. 

I've seen this complaint numerous times in this thread, and I'm not quite sure I understand it. This section is almost three minutes long, isn't it? The fade out really doesn't feel abrupt to me.

I actually had to go out and intentionally wait for it. I listened to the album five times without noticing it. I thought it flowed great.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: NunoTenniscourt on February 01, 2016, 11:05:00 AM

I guess some fans are like disgruntled Dr. Phil guests. They need "closure".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on February 01, 2016, 11:07:11 AM
What does the choir sing in the end of Three Days (after "their minds")?

Also, is JLB singing, speaking and laughing the whole song? Or Richard Chycki has a part?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 01, 2016, 11:09:43 AM
I actually thought that part went a bit too long. But then, I know my opinion will change upon further listens. I don't mind the fadeout at all, which will make that song more interesting live as we'll get something new.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hanz Gruber on February 01, 2016, 11:12:47 AM
There's only a couple of albums that I'm as excited about as this one, 2015 was an amazing year for music, but this album keeps growing on me on every listen, I know I'm kinda getting ahead of myself but I can very easily see this album being top half DT material, might even crack the top 3.

Like I predicted though, the 'standout' tracks of the first few listen won't be as shockingly good as they were on first listen compared to the other songs, songs like Three Days and Lord Nafaryus, I still love Three Days very much though.

Don;t want to derail but what came out in 2015?  I feel like I missed out.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 01, 2016, 11:13:25 AM
:lol  Not sure how a fadeout is "lazy songwriting."  That doesn't even make sense.  "The band didn't end a song the way I think it should have ended" is not "lazy."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on February 01, 2016, 11:14:06 AM
Also, the fade out of A new beginning has go to be the absolute biggest let down I have ever heard in music.   That groove and solo are so god damn amazing and then it just fades out?!  This, to me, feels like the most creatively bankrupt thing I have ever heard from DT.  I mean, what happened to figuring out transitions and making the music have flow?  God, this just let me down in ways I don't even understand. 

I've seen this complaint numerous times in this thread, and I'm not quite sure I understand it. This section is almost three minutes long, isn't it? The fade out really doesn't feel abrupt to me.

I actually had to go out and intentionally wait for it. I listened to the album five times without noticing it. I thought it flowed great.

It's not a "complaint" on my end, and it's not abrupt IMO, I just want some more of it, which I think they might do in the live shows, I'll take at least 5 more minutes.  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 01, 2016, 11:16:07 AM
Also, the fade out of A new beginning has go to be the absolute biggest let down I have ever heard in music.   That groove and solo are so god damn amazing and then it just fades out?!  This, to me, feels like the most creatively bankrupt thing I have ever heard from DT.  I mean, what happened to figuring out transitions and making the music have flow?  God, this just let me down in ways I don't even understand. 

I've seen this complaint numerous times in this thread, and I'm not quite sure I understand it. This section is almost three minutes long, isn't it? The fade out really doesn't feel abrupt to me.

It's not abrupt.  It's lazy song writing and DT is a band that has some of the greatest transitions from song to song historically.  I felt like they were just like, welp, we got nothing here, so fade out.
That's obviously what happened.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 01, 2016, 11:18:31 AM
The "Freedom if we live or if we die." Part is amazing in A Better Life, the harmonies and Mangini following along.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlackInk on February 01, 2016, 11:23:34 AM
Anyone else let down by the "scream"?  I read the passage before listening and was so excited to here that, and then laughed at it.  Even my brother who was in the other room chimed in for that one part, "THAT?! that was the scream? lol"

Yeah I laugh every time I hear that. I also always laugh at "my MUUUSIIIC PLAAAYEEEER". That's just silly.

And I agree with fade-outs being a bit lazy. But it's only once, so fine.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 01, 2016, 11:24:57 AM
:lol  Not sure how a fadeout is "lazy songwriting."  That doesn't even make sense.  "The band didn't end a song the way I think it should have ended" is not "lazy."

::) The CD is one second shy of being A FULL DISC.  Fuck you Dream Theater. I want that god damned second you thieving gypsies !!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JustinSire on February 01, 2016, 11:25:17 AM
It's curious to see the correlation between comments that claim "there's so much to digest" with comments that claim "I don't like it."

Chew your food first, digest, then talk sh*t.

Sorry to be blunt, but as a lurker it seems there are far too many knee-jerk reactions. My first listen to TA was a combination of being both under and overwhelmed. As constantly stated there is so much to process, and I found what I did process did not grab me. 3 or 4 more full listens did the trick, I began keying in on the intricacies, began anticipating the next movement, began salvating at what comes next. Now I'm in love. Now I can fully appreciate what DT has done here.

DT, for me, has always been an acquired taste. I always need time to appreciate their latest release. This is what makes DT so progressive. They always put something new on the menu for me to try. At first I might miss my usual dish, but once it all sinks in, I can't get enough.

I feel a lot of the criticism on this album comes from disagreeing with the direction DT went in. A lot seems to come from misunderstanding what DT has done. Look, if you don't like the sound, you don't like the sound. But criticisms of too many ballads, filler songs, not enough stand alone content; all miss the point. You can't view TA through the SFAM lense. I feel facing this fact is what has dissapointed so many. This isn't a concept album. It's a rock opera. It's soup. If you start looking to pick out individual components you stop enjoying the thing for what it is.

Tldr: how can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 01, 2016, 11:26:51 AM
Also I love 1:22 in Lord Nefaryus  :metal :metal

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Nihil-Morari on February 01, 2016, 11:29:07 AM
criticisms of too many ballads, filler songs, not enough stand alone content; all miss the point.

Well... 'The Point' is liking it or not. So if you don't like ballads, or feel certain songs to be filler songs, or if you happen to like standalone content, you don't like the album. How could disliking something be 'missing the point'?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on February 01, 2016, 11:30:15 AM
I don't feel the need to try to change anyone's mind. Taste and subjectivity and all that jazz...

I will say this though, some of my all time favorite albums took many listens to sink in. if you are the type of person who likes
a large variety of music (not just metal) it might be worth spinning this a few more times before you put it on the shelf.
Then again, you may never like it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BelichickFan on February 01, 2016, 11:31:12 AM
I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 01, 2016, 11:32:58 AM
Lord Nafaryus is one of my favorite songs off the album. It's amazing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TioJorge on February 01, 2016, 11:33:04 AM
There's only a couple of albums that I'm as excited about as this one, 2015 was an amazing year for music, but this album keeps growing on me on every listen, I know I'm kinda getting ahead of myself but I can very easily see this album being top half DT material, might even crack the top 3.

Like I predicted though, the 'standout' tracks of the first few listen won't be as shockingly good as they were on first listen compared to the other songs, songs like Three Days and Lord Nafaryus, I still love Three Days very much though.

Don;t want to derail but what came out in 2015?  I feel like I missed out.

Not even complete. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2015_albums)




I like it when I hear people call aspects of TA lazy. Yes, they constructed an entire world, characters, environment and literal backdrop all for a double album that is essential the new definition of rock-opera that spans roughly 130 minutes. Clearly, they've cut corners on this solo that is the length of what an average everyday song spans. Those lazy, lazy bastards. There can't possibly be any other explanation. *Storms into room, slams door and locks it*

I'm not even that hot on the album but gaw dayum. To say that this isn't one of the most detailed and ambitious albums ever created is just wrong. It's the equivalent of calling an active Olympic athlete lazy.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on February 01, 2016, 11:33:14 AM
:lol  Not sure how a fadeout is "lazy songwriting."  That doesn't even make sense.  "The band didn't end a song the way I think it should have ended" is not "lazy."

::) The CD is one second shy of being A FULL DISC.  Fuck you Dream Theater. I want that god damned second you thieving gypsies !!!

I think we can all say that there is plenty of music here, but why not add that extra second? :facepalm:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 01, 2016, 11:33:31 AM
I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.
I think the complaint is about the line in general, whether it was "music player", "mp3 player" or any other variation. It sounds fine the way it is.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on February 01, 2016, 11:34:19 AM
I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.

It's not the wording. It's that the "my music player" line sounds a bit cheesy
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on February 01, 2016, 11:36:48 AM
I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.

It's not the wording. It's that the "my music player" line sounds a bit cheesy

I think the quick crying section is more cheesy, but I love cheese. :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 01, 2016, 11:40:24 AM
I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.

It's not the wording. It's that the "my music player" line sounds a bit cheesy

it sounds better than " My pers'nal Stereoooo. My Pers'nal Stereoooo "
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 01, 2016, 11:42:48 AM
I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.

It's not the wording. It's that the "my music player" line sounds a bit cheesy

I think the quick crying section is more cheesy, but I love cheese. :metal

I too have a high cheese tolerance, but if I thought too hard about it, "I'll treat them all to sonic ecstasy" might grate a bit..  :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peace and Love on February 01, 2016, 11:43:34 AM
I am so happy that this monumental effort has 34 songs (!) because that gives us so much material to discuss in depth.

But I will start by saying that I love MM's drumming in A New Beginning. For me this is as "catchy" or "groovy" as anyone might reasonable desire - I think he surpassed all his previous performances in DT on this album. I am very pleased with his contributions  :smiley:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on February 01, 2016, 11:44:39 AM
Wow. After about two and a half listens, I´ll put in my two cents.

First off, major MAJOR kudos to the band for having the balls to even attempting such an enormous undertaking like this.
Thanks for not playing it safe. Second, there is still so much to process, but to me, this is the band returning to its Classic Dream Theater sound. Yes, there are a lot of ballady songs, and a lot is mellow, but there also is some great heavy, dense playing on this, increddibly tight too. I´m glad the forum points to the site for clearification on the story, it would be handy to have this in the booklet, but I can see why they chose this option.

It will take a lot more listens to familiarize me completely with the material, but I still have three weeks before the concerts start and by then I will know them by heart. I can see why this album is so polarizing the fanbase, though.

But a big  :tup for this effort.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: 7StringedBeast on February 01, 2016, 11:44:55 AM
Seems everyone is misinterpreting my criticism of the fade out.  It's not that I want more solo time, it's that I wanted the song to go somewhere.  Which is a criticism I have of the album as a whole.  It just feels like none of the ideas really go anywhere.

I'm also entertained by people who seem to take personal offence to these criticisms.  This is just how I feel about it.  It shouldn't affect the way you feel at all.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: nemonius on February 01, 2016, 11:45:21 AM
I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.

It's not the wording. It's that the "my music player" line sounds a bit cheesy

First, awesome music! Must say though that I was amazed how cheesy the lyrics are :P It's better not listening them so closely.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JustinSire on February 01, 2016, 11:46:48 AM
criticisms of too many ballads, filler songs, not enough stand alone content; all miss the point.

Well... 'The Point' is liking it or not. So if you don't like ballads, or feel certain songs to be filler songs, or if you happen to like standalone content, you don't like the album. How could disliking something be 'missing the point'?

Disliking something certainly is not missing the point. If you don't like the sound, you don't like it. Vocalizing your dislike with the criticism of saying what the album isn't, isn't good criticism. You may disagree with the approach, but that isn't good criticism. It can be a perfect reason to dislike somethig personally. It contributes nothing to rating the album though. It misses the point.

Much how saying "I haven't digested it all . . . I don't like it" is more of an illogical emotional response than a critical one. Digest the whole thing, if you are going to openly state your dislike, find solid reasoning. I'm not saying you personally haven't done this (I don't know), but many are treading on the album because of a) "I" can't work through it's complexity b) "they" phoned it in.

The first says more about the listener than the music, the 2nd is CritFic: lazy criticism that creates a fictualization rather than explanation of why something isn't "good."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on February 01, 2016, 11:49:38 AM
Lord Nafaryus is one of my favorite songs off the album. It's amazing.

I love the song, but cannot get lion king out of my mind.   
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peace and Love on February 01, 2016, 11:50:28 AM
I LOVE the part at 1:04 of The Road to Revolution!

Brought to mind Trivium for some reason - the guitar tone and the drumming both for some reason gave me a Shogun vibe.

And then the section 2:20 again, Shogun- and In Waves-esque.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on February 01, 2016, 11:53:44 AM
criticisms of too many ballads, filler songs, not enough stand alone content; all miss the point.

Well... 'The Point' is liking it or not. So if you don't like ballads, or feel certain songs to be filler songs, or if you happen to like standalone content, you don't like the album. How could disliking something be 'missing the point'?

Disliking something certainly is not missing the point. If you don't like the sound, you don't like it. Vocalizing your dislike with the criticism of saying what the album isn't, isn't good criticism. You may disagree with the approach, but that isn't good criticism. It can be a perfect reason to dislike somethig personally. It contributes nothing to rating the album though. It misses the point.

Much how saying "I haven't digested it all . . . I don't like it" is more of an illogical emotional response than a critical one. Digest the whole thing, if you are going to openly state your dislike, find solid reasoning. I'm not saying you personally haven't done this (I don't know), but many are treading on the album because of a) "I" can't work through it's complexity b) "they" phoned it in.

The first says more about the listener than the music, the 2nd is CritFic: lazy criticism that creates a fictualization rather than explanation of why something isn't "good."

 :corn
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Train of Naught on February 01, 2016, 11:56:07 AM
There's only a couple of albums that I'm as excited about as this one, 2015 was an amazing year for music, but this album keeps growing on me on every listen, I know I'm kinda getting ahead of myself but I can very easily see this album being top half DT material, might even crack the top 3.

Like I predicted though, the 'standout' tracks of the first few listen won't be as shockingly good as they were on first listen compared to the other songs, songs like Three Days and Lord Nafaryus, I still love Three Days very much though.

Don;t want to derail but what came out in 2015?  I feel like I missed out.

Here you can find some of DTF's faves: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44941.0
Highlights in the end for me were The Dear Hunter - Act IV, Native Construct - Quiet World and Periphery - Juggernaut.

Back on-topic: Just came back from a local music store and I got the salesman to check out The Astonishing with my convincing words  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on February 01, 2016, 11:56:44 AM
Also: ´I AM HERE TO HEAR HIM SING´ Damn, how awesome will it be to hear that live?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wideworldofmike on February 01, 2016, 12:01:53 PM
I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.

It's not the wording. It's that the "my music player" line sounds a bit cheesy

First, awesome music! Must say though that I was amazed how cheesy the lyrics are :P It's better not listening them so closely.

I was rolling my eyes at Our New World's chorus at 1st listen but after reading the story and seeing how specific the lyrics esp the verses are to the characters I think its actually some of their best song writing and one of my top songs from the record. the 1st verse is especially great for me personally.

From just listening on the surface, you won't know that the main character singing to his nephew, a child never knew his mom and just lost his father, telling him what is really important is how he decides to live despite what he lost or has been given...at that he and his new princess girlfriend with pink hair will adopt him and shower him in riches of the kingdom and the music of DT :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 01, 2016, 12:07:41 PM
I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.

It's not the wording. It's that the "my music player" line sounds a bit cheesy

I figured because it's a girl singing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wizard of Thought on February 01, 2016, 12:08:16 PM
Does anyone else notice that the intro riff to A New Beginning is somewhat like a riff out of Cowboys From Hell (Pantera)?
I don`t know, maybe it`s just me, but the riff sounded quite familiar when hearing the intro. Love it btw  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Astonished on February 01, 2016, 12:10:47 PM
Brother, Can You Hear Me? has become one of my favourite JLB efforts, ever. He's really acing in that song.

"I sing the song of freedom, my courage knows no bounds.
Brother, now I stand on solid ground.
Brother, I will never let you down.
Never LET YOUUUUU DOOOOOOOOOWN!"

So many shivers down my spine. So fucking great.  :yarr
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 01, 2016, 12:11:34 PM
^ I'm with you on that
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on February 01, 2016, 12:12:55 PM
Brother, Can You Hear Me? has become one of my favourite JLB efforts, ever. He's really acing in that song.

"I sing the song of freedom, my courage knows no bounds.
Brother, now I stand on solid ground.
Brother, I will never let you down.
Never LET YOUUUUU DOOOOOOOOOWN!"

So many shivers down my spine. So fucking great.  :yarr

I do wish he would've gone higher in the end though
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on February 01, 2016, 12:13:06 PM
Has anyone been able to figure out what is that choir singing in the final seconds of Three Days, right after the tango section?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gm5k on February 01, 2016, 12:16:45 PM
The riff in "Heaven's Cove" at 2:37 really takes me back to another era of DT.  Is it FII era?  Hard for me to pinpoint.  I love the groove and feel of that riff/section  :hefdaddy

HC is definitely one of my favorites on the album after several listens, even if the intro reminds me a bit too much of OTBOA.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on February 01, 2016, 12:16:53 PM
Has anyone been able to figure out what is that choir singing in the final seconds of Three Days, right after the tango section?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/18fcD1U7H-v8l8raLuIPfoVNVs65vMGvbHQS00IUCpUk/preview#heading=h.95l4jmoloywa
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 01, 2016, 12:18:52 PM
Listening to it on the way to work today, I realized that I was right about the GNE: They pretend to be good but in reality are evil.  I picked the wrong side!  I don't want to support these music hating NOMAC loving tyrants!

I can imagine what the artwork for a video for Our New World would look like!  I hope they make one.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Astonished on February 01, 2016, 12:34:15 PM
On the 4th listen now, I think I can name my favourites (for now):

The Gift of Music
A Better Life
Lord Nafaryus
When Your Time Has Come
Act of Faythe
Three Days
Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Chosen
A Tempting Offer
A New Beginning
Moment of Betrayal
The Path That Divides
The Walking Shadow
Losing Faythe
Hymn of a Thousand Voices
Our New World
Power Down
Astonishing


Truly amazing record. So many great stuff on here. Finding something new every time I listen it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 01, 2016, 12:44:25 PM
:lol  Not sure how a fadeout is "lazy songwriting."  That doesn't even make sense.  "The band didn't end a song the way I think it should have ended" is not "lazy."

::) The CD is one second shy of being A FULL DISC.  Fuck you Dream Theater. I want that god damned second you thieving gypsies !!!

I think we can all say that there is plenty of music here, but why not add that extra second? :facepalm:
Can't tell if serious or not.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Train of Naught on February 01, 2016, 12:45:38 PM
For me:

Dystopian Overture
A Better Life
Three Days
A Life Left Behind
Ravenskill
Chosen
The X Aspect
A New Beginning
Moment of Betrayal
Heaven's Cove
The Path That Divides
The Walking Shadow

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pdurbin22 on February 01, 2016, 12:46:44 PM
I'm a huge fan of "A Savior In The Square"/"When Your Time Has Come." So beautiful and grandiose, and constantly stuck in my head. Don't understand how anyone could find stuff like that forgettable. Not to mention all the other great stuff stuck in my head like "A New Beginning," "Moment of Betrayal," "Our New World" and so much more.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 01, 2016, 12:49:07 PM
Nah it's more bluesy if anything.

In my opinion - The Astonishing would have carried on that amazing run of Scenes - Six Degrees - Train of thought - Octavarium.

It feels like it picks up where Octavarium left off.

The best :soon: album in my opinion.

Easily the best Mangini album.

:)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Astonished on February 01, 2016, 12:50:39 PM
I just found out that the melody of the chorus of "A Better Life" plays at the start of "The road to revolution". Anyone else got that one already?  ;D

That's one of the one things I love about this album. All those numerous recurring themes. And JLB shines alot! I won't be surprised at all, if TA ends up being my favorite album of Dream Theater. It is THAT good.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 01, 2016, 12:51:47 PM
Nah it's more bluesy if anything.

In my opinion - The Astonishing would have carried on that amazing run of Scenes - Six Degrees - Train of thought - Octavarium.

It feels like it picks up where Octavarium left off.

The best :soon: album in my opinion.

Easily the best Mangini album.

:)
Agreed. It's their best album in 10 years, without a doubt.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Astonished on February 01, 2016, 12:52:36 PM
I'm a huge fan of "A Savior In The Square"/"When Your Time Has Come." So beautiful and grandiose, and constantly stuck in my head. Don't understand how anyone could find stuff like that forgettable. Not to mention all the other great stuff stuck in my head like "A New Beginning," "Moment of Betrayal," "Our New World" and so much more.

I -love- When Your Time Has Come. My favourite "mellow" song together with Chosen and Losing Faythe.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on February 01, 2016, 12:57:14 PM
Has anyone been able to figure out what is that choir singing in the final seconds of Three Days, right after the tango section?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/18fcD1U7H-v8l8raLuIPfoVNVs65vMGvbHQS00IUCpUk/preview#heading=h.95l4jmoloywa
The question remains.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on February 01, 2016, 12:57:56 PM
Nah it's more bluesy if anything.

In my opinion - The Astonishing would have carried on that amazing run of Scenes - Six Degrees - Train of thought - Octavarium.

It feels like it picks up where Octavarium left off.

The best :soon: album in my opinion.

Easily the best Mangini album.

:)
Agreed. It's their best album in 10 years, without a doubt.

My top 3 albums are Scenes- this one - ADTOE . In that order
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: skipreid on February 01, 2016, 01:01:45 PM
I don't like it. At all. I am a huge DT fan and have seen them numerous times. I was looking forward to this tour, but I won't be going to watch them perform this album. I just couldn't get into it. Of course the musicianship is incredible. I also feel the this is James' best album of vocals. He was brilliant. However after listening to the album 3 times, I can't remember ONE single track that stands out that made me hum or sing a chorus to or catchy riff. For me, the tracks are too short and they never got into songs. I guess it's just a rock opera that HAS to be listened to over the entire act. To me, they focused way too much on the story and characters than the music. I assume now that this tour will be more of a visual play and DT just happens to be standing there playing background tracks. That's just not my thing. So for me, The Astonishing was a big let down and I will pass on it. I also didn't like BCaSL. I would rank this one right down near the bottom with it. I will just listen to Score for a while to restore my FAYTHE....see what I did there?

 So we did not hear the same album. Plenty of catchy melodies for me. To say that they did not write songs is beyond my understanding. Sorry, mate, to each their own but... Some tracks still don't click with me, but it's not because they are not songs.

B.Lee

No problem B.Lee. That is the beauty of being an individual. We did dear the same album, we just have a difference of opinion on it. I am glad you enjoyed it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Chino on February 01, 2016, 01:03:44 PM
I have a hard time separating the tracks in my head. I'm constantly waking my phone up to see what song I'm on. The album becomes one huge blur (not complaining).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 01, 2016, 01:07:14 PM
I have a hard time separating the tracks in my head. I'm constantly waking my phone up to see what song I'm on. The album becomes one huge blur (not complaining).

It gets easier. It's taken me about 7-8 listens.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on February 01, 2016, 01:09:24 PM
Has anyone been able to figure out what is that choir singing in the final seconds of Three Days, right after the tango section?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/18fcD1U7H-v8l8raLuIPfoVNVs65vMGvbHQS00IUCpUk/preview#heading=h.95l4jmoloywa
The question remains.

All I could make out was "Judgment Day is coming...."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on February 01, 2016, 01:27:52 PM
:lol  Not sure how a fadeout is "lazy songwriting."  That doesn't even make sense.  "The band didn't end a song the way I think it should have ended" is not "lazy."

::) The CD is one second shy of being A FULL DISC.  Fuck you Dream Theater. I want that god damned second you thieving gypsies !!!

I think we can all say that there is plenty of music here, but why not add that extra second? :facepalm:
Can't tell if serious or not.

Not.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on February 01, 2016, 01:54:13 PM
Kind of a blown opportunity that they didn't reprise the "and I can't climb this mountain without you" part from Chosen in Whispers On The Wind.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 01, 2016, 02:04:47 PM
Has anyone been able to figure out what is that choir singing in the final seconds of Three Days, right after the tango section?
All I could make out was "Judgment Day is coming...."
I believe it's "Judgment Day is coming and you've only got three days... just three days!"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 01, 2016, 02:05:18 PM
Worked out the Our New World intro riff. But it's fiddly as hell :lol

I can't play it clean at that speed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YtseJamittaja on February 01, 2016, 02:05:53 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Heaven's Cove sounds like Headspace song!? I almost can imagine Damian Wilson singing there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 01, 2016, 02:07:55 PM
In general, I wish they'd included the choral lyrics in the booklet -- most of the time they're just echoing BGVs, but sometimes (as in the case of "Three Days") they're new text that it would be nice to understand.  Especially since they're not exactly mixed with an ear toward enunciation.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 01, 2016, 02:12:55 PM
It might have sounded better if songs flowed in and out of the NOMAC tracks instead of them being stand alone.  Then they would have been more like transitional sounds between songs.  It sounds awkward the way it is now to me.

I wondered about this too.  Also, two or three songs contain in-song NOMAC sounds, yes?  It feels like they're present in that abrupt transition in "Savior in the Square," and one Act II song I can't think of at the moment... also, whooshing noises in the overture I assumed were NOMACs.  Anyone able to back me up on this?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on February 01, 2016, 02:20:34 PM
Regarding the "my music player" line--which I also find grating and takes me out of the story--I wish not that they'd substitute another term (mp3 player/iPod, etc.) but that they'd make up some other term for what it'd be called in this other world. The stuff's futuristic, and you've got a lot of world-specific terms already, so what's another one? I think the line would be a lot easier to take seriously that way, and it would be another one of those things where you'd have to dig deep into things to figure out how it all connects. Heck, the music player thing already has that with "BUG." Why not extend it to what the device is called?

Really my only complaints regarding the album--other than the rather poorly-done sound effects--have to do with the elements of the story that have to do with music. There are a few places where they're just too cheesy, and I also don't get a great feel for how exactly the NOMACs tie in with the rest of the story. Generally, I don't really mind lyrics--all of DT's, even TBOT and TCOT,work fine in my opinion, except for these specific bits from TA. I do think this is one element where some internal pushback at JP might've been helpful. It sounds like--from what we know--the band just kind of went with what he had, and often one individual's creative vision needs at least a few bits of sanding and smoothing in a project of this sort of scope.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 01, 2016, 02:23:01 PM
1. They have to let us know what they're referring to.

2. It's 300 years from now they can't say MP3 or Ipod. That would be antique by then.

3. Music Player is exactly what it is and it won't date it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 01, 2016, 02:23:13 PM
As you know I've been dying waiting for a true second video in The Astonishing web page, I make my own video then, hahaha
Well, it is not really my own video, but I just realize the video from The Gift of Music in Dream Theater official youtube (the one they use for TGoM release for the first time) is matching with Descent of NOMACS.
So I just put and sync the audio of Descent of NOMACS with that video, and it absolutely great & cool !!!
I am a little bit sure, this video will be used as an opening video before their start playing live in their upcoming concert.

You can watch it here
https://vimeo.com/153834854
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: genome on February 01, 2016, 02:30:54 PM
So, I had my reservations about this album on the first listen. Now I've hit 4 or 5 listens, I'm absolutely loving it. A couple of cheesy bits I'm not too fond of - and a couple of the themes I am not too hot on but on the whole fantastic, and its strongest points are better than anything since Octavarium.

I like:
Dystopian Overture
The Gift of Music
A Better Life
Lord Nafaryus
When Your Time Has Come
The X-Aspect
A New Beginning
Moment of Betrayal
Heaven's Cove
The Path That Divides
Our New World
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Astonished on February 01, 2016, 02:33:27 PM
It might have sounded better if songs flowed in and out of the NOMAC tracks instead of them being stand alone.  Then they would have been more like transitional sounds between songs.  It sounds awkward the way it is now to me.

I wondered about this too.  Also, two or three songs contain in-song NOMAC sounds, yes?  It feels like they're present in that abrupt transition in "Savior in the Square," and one Act II song I can't think of at the moment... also, whooshing noises in the overture I assumed were NOMACs.  Anyone able to back me up on this?

I believe the song in Act II you are looking for is "The Path That Divides".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chrisbDTM on February 01, 2016, 02:34:55 PM
There's alot of parts on the album that sound like pure Disney to me ESPECIALLY Begin Again. obviously not exact but alot of the faythe stuff reminds me of Menken.
Dream Theater (https://youtu.be/u2iWardV_7E?t=1m59s)....What I Hear (https://youtu.be/Ad7ejBn3KSQ?t=2m45s)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 01, 2016, 02:37:21 PM
I don't get the complaints about the fadeout ending of ANB. Everything that needs to be said in the song has already been said, and there's plenty of that solo to satisfy before it fades out. Although I am interested in how they will end the song live. Bands usually bring songs to a proper end when playing live, even if the studio version fades out.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Astonished on February 01, 2016, 02:40:28 PM
There's alot of parts on the album that sound like pure Disney to me ESPECIALLY Begin Again. obviously not exact but alot of the faythe stuff reminds me of Menken.
Dream Theater (https://youtu.be/u2iWardV_7E?t=1m59s)....What I Hear (https://youtu.be/Ad7ejBn3KSQ?t=2m45s)

The "found my waaay" with the orchestration after it, in Act of Faythe, always reminds me when Esmeralda wanted to be outside in the Hunchback of the Notre Dame.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 01, 2016, 02:40:34 PM
a

Blocked in my country because of copyrights.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SchecterShredder on February 01, 2016, 02:41:15 PM
I don't like it. At all. I am a huge DT fan and have seen them numerous times. I was looking forward to this tour, but I won't be going to watch them perform this album. I just couldn't get into it. Of course the musicianship is incredible. I also feel the this is James' best album of vocals. He was brilliant. However after listening to the album 3 times, I can't remember ONE single track that stands out that made me hum or sing a chorus to or catchy riff. For me, the tracks are too short and they never got into songs. I guess it's just a rock opera that HAS to be listened to over the entire act. To me, they focused way too much on the story and characters than the music. I assume now that this tour will be more of a visual play and DT just happens to be standing there playing background tracks. That's just not my thing. So for me, The Astonishing was a big let down and I will pass on it. I also didn't like BCaSL. I would rank this one right down near the bottom with it. I will just listen to Score for a while to restore my FAYTHE....see what I did there?

I couldn't agree more, but unfortunately I already bought my ticket and booked the flight. The album is okay, maybe even great from a production point of view, but there's something missing that makes a truly great DT album. If I wanted to listen to 'okay' 4 minute songs I'll just turn on the FM dial.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 01, 2016, 02:45:48 PM
Brother, Can You Hear Me? has become one of my favourite JLB efforts, ever. He's really acing in that song.

"I sing the song of freedom, my courage knows no bounds.
Brother, now I stand on solid ground.
Brother, I will never let you down.
Never LET YOUUUUU DOOOOOOOOOWN!"

So many shivers down my spine. So fucking great.  :yarr
Anyone else think of "Some Enchanted Evening" ("Ne... ver... let... her... goooooo!") on that last line?

...just me then?  ;)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 01, 2016, 02:49:55 PM
Bands usually bring songs to a proper end when playing live, even if the studio version fades out.

Well, replace "usually" with "have to", it's kinda hard to play with less and less intensity to simulate the fade out  ;D

Anyway, I agree as well that it will be interesting to see how they will end it, maybe they'll buy James some extra minutes for resting... like the Entr'Acte, for him the intermission will be 18 minutes long and not 15!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 01, 2016, 02:52:01 PM
Also, two or three songs contain in-song NOMAC sounds, yes?  It feels like they're present in that abrupt transition in "Savior in the Square," and one Act II song I can't think of at the moment... also, whooshing noises in the overture I assumed were NOMACs.  Anyone able to back me up on this?
I believe the song in Act II you are looking for is "The Path That Divides".
Thanks, that's the one!  For reference, the timestamps where I'm noticing NOMACs:
Dystopian Overture: 1:12
Savior in the Square: 3:25
Path That Divides: 0:36

Anyone able to figure out what the choir is singing in those stabs around 3:20 of "Savior in the Square"?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 01, 2016, 02:56:12 PM
Regarding the "my music player" line--which I also find grating and takes me out of the story...
This is my favorite moment of the album.  Made me tear up on first listen.  Just reaches right into that part of my memory when I was a new kid at school in 7th grade (brutal year to be the new kid) and the only friend I had was my music player.

This is not to say you're wrong... I have plenty of thoughts on where JP & co. might have used a second pair of eyes when lyric-writing over the past several albums... but just, one's trash lyric is another's treasure.  :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 01, 2016, 03:08:43 PM
As you know I've been dying waiting for a true second video in The Astonishing web page, I make my own video then, hahaha
Well, it is not really my own video, but I just realize the video from The Gift of Music in Dream Theater official youtube (the one they use for TGoM release for the first time) is matching with Descent of NOMACS.
So I just put and sync the audio of Descent of NOMACS with that video, and it absolutely great & cool !!!
I am a little bit sure, this video will be used as an opening video before their start playing live in their upcoming concert.

You can watch it here
deleted

Blocked in my country because of copyrights.

B.Lee
I just re upload it here https://vimeo.com/153834854  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 01, 2016, 03:37:28 PM
Regarding the "my music player" line--which I also find grating and takes me out of the story...
This is my favorite moment of the album.  Made me tear up on first listen.  Just reaches right into that part of my memory when I was a new kid at school in 7th grade (brutal year to be the new kid) and the only friend I had was my music player.

This is not to say you're wrong... I have plenty of thoughts on where JP & co. might have used a second pair of eyes when lyric-writing over the past several albums... but just, one's trash lyric is another's treasure.  :)

I loved that line also because my music player is so integral to my lifestyle that I can listen to two full runs of TA in a day. That's how much time I spend listening to it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 01, 2016, 03:43:12 PM
I just re upload it here https://vimeo.com/153834854  :lol

Pringka this is better than anything we officially got so far, certinly better than the trailer they gave us, great work dude  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Segue Myles on February 01, 2016, 03:51:44 PM
I heard this when it leaked. It's taken a week, I really hated it at first. But now I think it's grown on to to become an actual possible favourite!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on February 01, 2016, 03:59:42 PM
I'm going to make my dream fan-edit of the Astonishing, It'll be interesting, I'll get back when I'm done  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bacong on February 01, 2016, 04:07:25 PM
Our New World is one of my least favorite songs on the record, kinda surprises me to see people rank it so highly. I love the guitars, sure, but the chorus is boring and they say "world" more times in it than Asian Kung-Fu Generation
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: devieira73 on February 01, 2016, 04:10:13 PM

Bands usually bring songs to a proper end when playing live, even if the studio version fades out.

Interesting to notice that some songs that fade out and that we all imagine or want that they could go on forever, in fact, they seem to finish truly a little time after the end of the fade out. I'm thinking about the Rush live version of Mission and the instrumental version of DT The Best of Times... I wouldn't be surprised with the recorded version of A New Beginning lasts only a bit  more, like 10 seconds.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 01, 2016, 04:10:40 PM
Also, two or three songs contain in-song NOMAC sounds, yes?  It feels like they're present in that abrupt transition in "Savior in the Square," and one Act II song I can't think of at the moment... also, whooshing noises in the overture I assumed were NOMACs.  Anyone able to back me up on this?
I believe the song in Act II you are looking for is "The Path That Divides".
Thanks, that's the one!  For reference, the timestamps where I'm noticing NOMACs:
Dystopian Overture: 1:12
Savior in the Square: 3:25
Path That Divides: 0:36

Anyone able to figure out what the choir is singing in those stabs around 3:20 of "Savior in the Square"?
are you sure it is sound of NOMACS?? I think that's sound of... umm, I dont know what it is, some kind of flying machines the realm family ride when they traveling to ravenskill.

you can see it here
(https://i.imgur.com/SfFUwVA.jpg)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 01, 2016, 04:14:19 PM
Has anyone been able to figure out what is that choir singing in the final seconds of Three Days, right after the tango section?
All I could make out was "Judgment Day is coming...."
I believe it's "Judgment Day is coming and you've only got three days... just three days!"
well, I think that is right lyric for the choir  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 01, 2016, 04:18:52 PM
I just re upload it here https://vimeo.com/153834854  :lol
Pringka this is better than anything we officially got so far, certinly better than the trailer they gave us, great work dude  :tup
Thankyou man  ;D
But I still hope second video from astonishing website page is a great animation video, I always hope it will be Dystopian Overture Video Clip  ;D

I'm going to make my dream fan-edit of the Astonishing, It'll be interesting, I'll get back when I'm done  ;D
What it is? Video, audio or pic?? Cant wait it man  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 01, 2016, 04:22:44 PM
Our New World is one of my least favorite songs on the record, kinda surprises me to see people rank it so highly. I love the guitars, sure, but the chorus is boring and they say "world" more times in it than Asian Kung-Fu Generation
Yeah same, I mean I like it well enough but I definitely don't find it one of the exciting tracks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chrisbDTM on February 01, 2016, 04:37:07 PM
I really like that "freedom if we live or if we die" moment on a better life. Wish it happened more
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hanz Gruber on February 01, 2016, 04:46:15 PM
There's only a couple of albums that I'm as excited about as this one, 2015 was an amazing year for music, but this album keeps growing on me on every listen, I know I'm kinda getting ahead of myself but I can very easily see this album being top half DT material, might even crack the top 3.

Like I predicted though, the 'standout' tracks of the first few listen won't be as shockingly good as they were on first listen compared to the other songs, songs like Three Days and Lord Nafaryus, I still love Three Days very much though.

Don;t want to derail but what came out in 2015?  I feel like I missed out.

Here you can find some of DTF's faves: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44941.0
Highlights in the end for me were The Dear Hunter - Act IV, Native Construct - Quiet World and Periphery - Juggernaut.

Back on-topic: Just came back from a local music store and I got the salesman to check out The Astonishing with my convincing words  :metal


Thanks.  Will have to check some of those out.  The only ones that I remembered off the top of my head were Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, and Faith No More.

With the Dream Theater and Megadeth releases this early in the year....I think this year will be even better.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 01, 2016, 05:10:03 PM
I just re upload it here https://vimeo.com/153834854  :lol
Pringka this is better than anything we officially got so far, certinly better than the trailer they gave us, great work dude  :tup
Thankyou man  ;D
But I still hope second video from astonishing website page is a great animation video, I always hope it will be Dystopian Overture Video Clip  ;D

You will find out what it is soon...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on February 01, 2016, 05:25:49 PM
There's only a couple of albums that I'm as excited about as this one, 2015 was an amazing year for music, but this album keeps growing on me on every listen, I know I'm kinda getting ahead of myself but I can very easily see this album being top half DT material, might even crack the top 3.

Like I predicted though, the 'standout' tracks of the first few listen won't be as shockingly good as they were on first listen compared to the other songs, songs like Three Days and Lord Nafaryus, I still love Three Days very much though.

Don;t want to derail but what came out in 2015?  I feel like I missed out.

Here you can find some of DTF's faves: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44941.0
Highlights in the end for me were The Dear Hunter - Act IV, Native Construct - Quiet World and Periphery - Juggernaut.

Back on-topic: Just came back from a local music store and I got the salesman to check out The Astonishing with my convincing words  :metal


Thanks.  Will have to check some of those out.  The only ones that I remembered off the top of my head were Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, and Faith No More.

With the Dream Theater and Megadeth releases this early in the year....I think this year will be even better.
Symphony X =Underworld is a fantastic album from 2015!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 01, 2016, 05:32:42 PM

You will find out what it is :soon:

:emo:

Fingers crossed Petrucci was lying about there being no behind the scenes and it's 2 hours and 10 minutes of studio footage

:drool:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 01, 2016, 05:41:23 PM
I just re upload it here https://vimeo.com/153834854  :lol
Pringka this is better than anything we officially got so far, certinly better than the trailer they gave us, great work dude  :tup
Thankyou man  ;D
But I still hope second video from astonishing website page is a great animation video, I always hope it will be Dystopian Overture Video Clip  ;D

You will find out what it is soon...
at least give us a little spoiler  :sad: :sad: :sad:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on February 01, 2016, 05:58:09 PM
I can't even imagine how dragged out a 3 Act version would be.

It would have allowed space for more music to balance the narrative and cater to traditional Dream Theater fans, not talking about myself.

Really late response, but yea that's fine but I think that would've been a huge mistake. Part of this album's strength is how focused it is. Everything on there is in service to the story, music and lyrics. I have to give them a ton of credit for that, it takes a lot of restraint and focus to pull it off.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on February 01, 2016, 06:09:49 PM
I just re upload it here https://vimeo.com/153834854  :lol
Pringka this is better than anything we officially got so far, certinly better than the trailer they gave us, great work dude  :tup
Thankyou man  ;D
But I still hope second video from astonishing website page is a great animation video, I always hope it will be Dystopian Overture Video Clip  ;D

You will find out what it is soon...

Do you know something we don't Bosky?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 01, 2016, 06:14:22 PM
I am seeing very little chatter about Dystopian Overture, probably them doing another overture isn't as chatter-worthy as much of what they did elsewhere on this record, but the middle section where the orchestra plays one of the main themes followed by the full band coming back in with the choir singing is freaking AWESOME. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 01, 2016, 06:16:51 PM
I am seeing very little chatter about Dystopian Overture, probably them doing another overture isn't as chatter-worthy as much of what they did elsewhere on this record, but the middle section where the orchestra plays one of the main themes followed by the full band coming back in with the choir singing is freaking AWESOME. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
I think it's their best overture. My favorite part is definitely the last section with  Jordan's synth lead and the choir, but the whole thing is great.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 01, 2016, 06:17:59 PM
I am seeing very little chatter about Dystopian Overture, probably them doing another overture isn't as chatter-worthy as much of what they did elsewhere on this record, but the middle section where the orchestra plays one of the main themes followed by the full band coming back in with the choir singing is freaking AWESOME. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

that's because most of the chatter is being done by machines. :neverusethis:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 01, 2016, 06:29:40 PM
I am seeing very little chatter about Dystopian Overture, probably them doing another overture isn't as chatter-worthy as much of what they did elsewhere on this record, but the middle section where the orchestra plays one of the main themes followed by the full band coming back in with the choir singing is freaking AWESOME. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

that's because most of the chatter is being done by machines. :neverusethis:

ZING. :lol :lol

I am seeing very little chatter about Dystopian Overture, probably them doing another overture isn't as chatter-worthy as much of what they did elsewhere on this record, but the middle section where the orchestra plays one of the main themes followed by the full band coming back in with the choir singing is freaking AWESOME. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
I think it's their best overture. My favorite part is definitely the last section with  Jordan's synth lead and the choir, but the whole thing is great.

I can't go that far - it's hard to top Overture 1928 -  but it's pretty great.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 01, 2016, 06:43:44 PM
I just re upload it here https://vimeo.com/153834854  :lol
Pringka this is better than anything we officially got so far, certinly better than the trailer they gave us, great work dude  :tup
Thankyou man  ;D
But I still hope second video from astonishing website page is a great animation video, I always hope it will be Dystopian Overture Video Clip  ;D

You will find out what it is soon...

Do you know something we don't Bosky?
Look like he does,
I have to admit it, second video & NOMACS eyes almost frustrated me  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 01, 2016, 08:25:27 PM
I can't go that far - it's hard to top Overture 1928 -  but it's pretty great.
Overture 1928 was formerly my favorite. It has now moved down to second place. Both are great!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lonestar on February 01, 2016, 08:31:53 PM
A thought on the live production of this album. I mean, I love JP and all, but it would do the show a great disservice to have him as the only other singer to JLB. A few really skilled backup singers would just push this album over the top.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 01, 2016, 08:41:42 PM
I am seeing very little chatter about Dystopian Overture, probably them doing another overture isn't as chatter-worthy as much of what they did elsewhere on this record, but the middle section where the orchestra plays one of the main themes followed by the full band coming back in with the choir singing is freaking AWESOME. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

I'm only on my second listen.  I feel like the overture will be much more amazing once I get all the musical themes on the album.  The second listen and I am already much more enjoying the album since instead of following the story like I did the first time, I am just really enjoying the music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YtseJamittaja on February 01, 2016, 10:36:38 PM

You will find out what it is :soon:

:emo:

Fingers crossed Petrucci was lying about there being no behind the scenes and it's 2 hours and 10 minutes of studio footage

:drool:

But he said there is footage but not in the schedule to release it......  ::)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zeroshift on February 01, 2016, 11:31:26 PM
I'm only on my second listen.  I feel like the overture will be much more amazing once I get all the musical themes on the album.  The second listen and I am already much more enjoying the album since instead of following the story like I did the first time, I am just really enjoying the music.

I actually fell in love with Dystopian Overture right away on my first listen. The guitar solo in the beginning followed by Rudess' arpeggios backed with the haunting choir made it an instant like for me, especially as a piano player myself
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on February 02, 2016, 12:06:33 AM
having Xander flying on the back of a raven (or whatever) has nothing to do with the story...right?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Anguyen92 on February 02, 2016, 12:31:47 AM
After the second full listen, this time with a little more focus than the first listen, yep, this is still a great album.

Favorites so far (now that I can actually pick favorites): Hymn of a Thousand Voices, Our New World, Moment of Betrayal, A Better Life, and Chosen.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 02, 2016, 12:42:45 AM
In terms of overtures, the first one is cool and sets the mood. The second one though is superfluous.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 02, 2016, 01:18:53 AM
Dystopian Overture is awesome, and has a great mood that sets it apart from the rest of the album. While I understand the place and purpose of the other instrumental, it feels more patched together and doesn't flow great imo.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 02, 2016, 01:51:06 AM
In terms of overtures, the first one is cool and sets the mood. The second one though is superfluous.

Looked at as a musical theater production, it is not superfluous. It is an entr'acte, which bridges the two acts.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 02, 2016, 02:01:59 AM
In terms of overtures, the first one is cool and sets the mood. The second one though is superfluous.

Looked at as a musical theater production, it is not superfluous. It is an entr'acte, which bridges the two acts.

Exactly that. It's like a quick recap before the curtain comes up for the second act.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 02, 2016, 02:41:13 AM
To be honest, I'm rarely a particularly huge fan of overtures, so I don't find either all that exciting. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on February 02, 2016, 03:06:41 AM
The second overture is brief and contains only the few truly wonderful themes. It gets my vote, fantastic little track that sets the mood perfectly for the big twist, as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 02, 2016, 03:14:40 AM
As I've said before, 2285 Entr'acte does a great job of transporting you back into the world of the story after the intermission, much like the Second Overture from Spock's Beard's rock opera Snow.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 02, 2016, 03:51:51 AM
having Xander flying on the back of a raven (or whatever) has nothing to do with the story...right?
I have same question about this  :huh:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on February 02, 2016, 04:02:12 AM
Flying up to the heavens, I guess....
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on February 02, 2016, 04:09:43 AM
A thought on the live production of this album. I mean, I love JP and all, but it would do the show a great disservice to have him as the only other singer to JLB. A few really skilled backup singers would just push this album over the top.

Thoughts?

My thoughts exactly! I'm affraid it will be all canned backing vocals though...they did an amazing job integrading the orchestra and the choir into the mix! Would LOVE a full orchestra/choir live show.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on February 02, 2016, 05:55:46 AM
Man, reading through some of the comments on reviews online and people are not getting it, or downright hating it. Looks like a knee-jerk reaction after a one time skip through listen to me.....  :tdwn
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 02, 2016, 06:01:46 AM

The Answer


ARHYS
They ask me Arhys,
Could things be any tougher,
The answer's no surprise


I heard this part and I was thinking " oh please, *don't* go " Yes. They. Could! " :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: IdoSC on February 02, 2016, 07:51:14 AM
So, I don't think it was another thread-worthy - how would you play the album for someone who wants to initially hear it just in one, single go, and let him/her get the most out of that playthrough?

I let my girlfriend hear the past 2 new albums and she loved each, but she can't really sit through an entire LP - let alone a double one - except for a single, first time each. I want her to be immersed with the plot as much as possible but also enjoy the music and the flow. So far I thought of a few options:

1. Pause between each track, read the website description during pauses, read the lyrics as the song plays. Flow is ruined but information is maximized. Certain plot points may be revealed too early (BUG, falling in love?).
2. Read lyrics while playing. Pause on every NOMAC tracks and read (at least the highlights) of what we've just heard on the website. Best compromise of flow and information, but "jack of all trades".
3. Skip the lyrics, read the website while playing.
4. Skip the website, read the lyrics while playing, either let her read or spoil her the major plot points revealed by the website later if she cares (I'm afraid she would be confused by what "power" Gabriel has other than the ability to sing, what's up with BUG, what exactly happens during Moment of Betrayal etc, like I was initially).
5. Other?

Thoughts, please? :D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Astonished on February 02, 2016, 07:56:41 AM
Man, reading through some of the comments on reviews online and people are not getting it, or downright hating it. Looks like a knee-jerk reaction after a one time skip through listen to me.....  :tdwn

I find it amazing how people can't like this album, especially Dream Theater fans. Meanwhile, i'm really happy that they thought outside the box and made a geniune spectacle of an album. I think it's got everything a Dream Theater fan should want. And it's not meant to be digested it one go. I think after at least a couple of weeks in, only then a review is legitimately written. Especially for something as big as TA. Man, they're surely missing out on a great album which is worth every second of my time.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 02, 2016, 08:05:32 AM
Wow, so much to read in this thread. I hope my own opinion isn't too late or repetitive.

You didn't like the way
I put the knife in wrong
You didn't like the way
My blood spilled on your brand new floor


Whole lotta this in this thread.

But I suppose I shouldn't be surprised when this fandom is one of the most ravenous, demanding and pretentious ones around (and I say that with a finger pointing at myself as well  ;D )

This is the 12th studio album this band has released since I became a fan, and with the exception of SFAM, each one has always taken a few days of listening to sink in and grow into the mnemonic milepost of life that each one is for me. And that's what has kept me a fan through 20 some odd years.

That being said, I recognize this effort for what it is. Their attempt at doing something between an audible movie and a soundtrack. I didn't go into this expecting another Scenes or Six Degrees type album, and I suspect some of those that are the most angry or dislike it probably did just that to varying degrees.

We as a fandom have cried for something epic and different from them over the last few releases. Everyone mostly agrees that they'd gotten into a rut of sorts, still releasing great material, but lacking the different flavors and directions we'd come to love from 8V and before.

The refrains went something like this:
"Man, this is a alright album, but it's no SFAM, SDoIT or 8v... wish they would do something epic like that again.. come on, they're DREEEEAAAMM THEATER!"

So here we are. They just gave us a 2:30-ish long album filled with so many new flavors and directions that at times it's like you're listening to a OST. Something they've never done before and few bands could even conceptualize.

Thanks, guys. Really. Thanks for this. You had the guts to do a complete 90 degree turn and reach for something incredible.

Sure, they could have used some help in the lyrics department (but that's always been an enduring trait of this band for me) and probably could have found a slightly less cliche story and characters. But I'm not entirely sure the story and characters weren't supposed to be cheesy and cliche. I could totally see JP having a laugh going "Heh... Faythe, Nefaryus... People are gonna freakin laugh their butts off when they read this. It'll be fun!"

Or maybe not *shrugs* Who knows. But I seriously doubt all parties involved in the creation of this honestly thought the characters and story were so unique and ground breaking that it should be taken seriously.  :police:  I think we're the only ones projecting that.

Point is... I don't really care much. This band did what I've always loved them for, and that's take me on a musical adventure somewhere with melodies and harmonies that are completely new that I find myself humming randomly out of the blue. To compare this to anything else they've done and then point to it's flaws is pretty closed minded, if you ask me. We wanted them to do something different, and they did. It's like eating salad everyday, complaining about it, then complaining the soup you got doesn't taste like a salad.

And to those that complain there isn't ONE track on here that's amazing all the way through, I think the whole album is intended to be "watched" like you do a movie, from start to finish, without trying to take scenes by themselves and then lament when they don't stand on their own.

Even the scene at the end of Aliens where Ripley appears in the loader to challenge the queen xenomorph and protect Newt doesn't hold much power without watching the struggle that's taken place up to that moment.

It's going to get the customary 20 more listen throughs (on top of the 10 or so it's already had) and then go in my library, to be pulled out for specific occasions that fit it. My next road trip, for example. This is a perfect road trip album.

And I don't regret spending the money on it one bit. Or buying the ticket for the live show coming in a couple of months.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: serrano on February 02, 2016, 08:12:06 AM

The Answer


ARHYS
They ask me Arhys,
Could things be any tougher,
The answer's no surprise


I heard this part and I was thinking " oh please, *don't* go " Yes. They. Could! " :lol

It's from A Better Life not The Answer
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 02, 2016, 08:13:19 AM
I will always buy physical products.

In 30 or so years it will be nice to have a look through all the CDs and DVDs in my collection.

People who only download music can stand back and look at.....fuck all.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 02, 2016, 08:14:13 AM

The Answer


ARHYS
They ask me Arhys,
Could things be any tougher,
The answer's no surprise


I heard this part and I was thinking " oh please, *don't* go " Yes. They. Could! " :lol

It's from A Better Life not The Answer


Yes. But It's still funny.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: serrano on February 02, 2016, 08:16:03 AM
It is, i just wanted to pull the smartass  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: shadow1psc on February 02, 2016, 08:17:57 AM
I've climbed the mountain that is this thread, and I'm not surprised by anything I've read. Lots of unique opinions, and for 2+ hours of music, I'm glad to see mostly positive reactions. I'm disappointed by the lack of love given specifically to the song Ravenskill (I think it might be my favorite, I'm still deliberating), but one thing remains clear: This album requires multiple listens. Unless you're the type of person who specifically seeks out analysis and breakdowns, there are so many nuggets in this album, and links and themes that the gravity of it is almost certainly something that bears weight (no pun intended).

RE: A New Beginning fade out - I have a feeling the fade out is 1) due to the time constraint of mortal CDs and 2) an opportunity for the band to take an extended jam session in the live show. I don't think it abrupt or out of place (especially given what it leads up to). I will say that I mistakenly coined it as the end of act 1 the first 3-4 listens, forgetting that The Road to Revolution is right after.

RE: My muuusiiiic plaaaaayerrrrr - I didn't find it as grating as I expected from early reviews, and my wife outright loves the song. This was discussed somewhere else, but I think there's just a certain level of 'cheese' that us manly metal men have problems digesting because we think it 'uncool'. When my wife said she started liking Act of Faythe more than Three Days, I started to gain an understanding from her outside perspective. Nothing on the album reached levels of "I'm just a poor girl..." or "Beginnings get complicated..." to me.

I'm still listening 30 minutes at a time to and from work every day, and this weekend I'll sit down again with the HDTracks version.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on February 02, 2016, 08:20:05 AM
Wow, so much to read in this thread. I hope my own opinion isn't too late or repetitive.

You didn't like the way
I put the knife in wrong
You didn't like the way
My blood spilled on your brand new floor


Whole lotta this in this thread.

But I suppose I shouldn't be surprised when this fandom is one of the most ravenous, demanding and pretentious ones around (and I say that with a finger pointing at myself as well  ;D )

This is the 12th studio album this band has released since I became a fan, and with the exception of SFAM, each one has always taken a few days of listening to sink in and grow into the mnemonic milepost of life that each one is for me. And that's what has kept me a fan through 20 some odd years.

That being said, I recognize this effort for what it is. Their attempt at doing something between an audible movie and a soundtrack. I didn't go into this expecting another Scenes or Six Degrees type album, and I suspect some of those that are the most angry or dislike it probably did just that to varying degrees.

We as a fandom have cried for something epic and different from them over the last few releases. Everyone mostly agrees that they'd gotten into a rut of sorts, still releasing great material, but lacking the different flavors and directions we'd come to love from 8V and before.

The refrains went something like this:
"Man, this is a alright album, but it's no SFAM, SDoIT or 8v... wish they would do something epic like that again.. come on, they're DREEEEAAAMM THEATER!"

So here we are. They just gave us a 2:30-ish long album filled with so many new flavors and directions that at times it's like you're listening to a OST. Something they've never done before and few bands could even conceptualize.

Thanks, guys. Really. Thanks for this. You had the guts to do a complete 90 degree turn and reach for something incredible.

Sure, they could have used some help in the lyrics department (but that's always been an enduring trait of this band for me) and probably could have found a slightly less cliche story and characters. But I'm not entirely sure the story and characters weren't supposed to be cheesy and cliche. I could totally see JP having a laugh going "Heh... Faythe, Nefaryus... People are gonna freakin laugh their butts off when they read this. It'll be fun!"

Or maybe not *shrugs* Who knows. But I seriously doubt all parties involved in the creation of this honestly thought the characters and story were so unique and ground breaking that it should be taken seriously.  :police:  I think we're the only ones projecting that.

Point is... I don't really care much. This band did what I've always loved them for, and that's take me on a musical adventure somewhere with melodies and harmonies that are completely new that I find myself humming randomly out of the blue. To compare this to anything else they've done and then point to it's flaws is pretty closed minded, if you ask me. We wanted them to do something different, and they did. It's like eating salad everyday, complaining about it, then complaining the soup you got doesn't taste like a salad.

And to those that complain there isn't ONE track on here that's amazing all the way through, I think the whole album is intended to be "watched" like you do a movie, from start to finish, without trying to take scenes by themselves and then lament when they don't stand on their own.

Even the scene at the end of Aliens where Ripley appears in the loader to challenge the queen xenomorph and protect Newt doesn't hold much power without watching the struggle that's taken place up to that moment.

It's going to get the customary 20 more listen throughs (on top of the 10 or so it's already had) and then go in my library, to be pulled out for specific occasions that fit it. My next road trip, for example. This is a perfect road trip album.

And I don't regret spending the money on it one bit. Or buying the ticket for the live show coming in a couple of months.



Awesome first post.

I can truly understand how some/many fans would not connect with this if their expectations weren't tweaked in advance. This
album is a different animal with the sole intent of grandiosity, and creating a mental image through the aural medium. I just
hope that the fans who don't like it at least respect the risk they took and the amount of sheer effort that went into it's creation.

Welcome to DTF!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wolven74 on February 02, 2016, 08:22:55 AM
Dystopian Overture is awesome, and has a great mood that sets it apart from the rest of the album. While I understand the place and purpose of the other instrumental, it feels more patched together and doesn't flow great imo.
I think of it in terms of the live show. After an intermission of maybe 20-30 minutes (time enough to towel off, go to the bathroom, possibly change clothes, and rehydrate) the reminder of the themes that went on in act 1 would be appreciated. That's likely how they planned it. They recorded it as they'll perform it live.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 02, 2016, 08:23:44 AM
Dystopian Overture is awesome, and has a great mood that sets it apart from the rest of the album. While I understand the place and purpose of the other instrumental, it feels more patched together and doesn't flow great imo.
I think of it in terms of the live show. After an intermission of maybe 20-30 minutes (time enough to towel off, go to the bathroom, possibly change clothes, and rehydrate) the reminder of the themes that went on in act 1 would be appreciated. That's likely how they planned it. They recorded it as they'll perform it live.

As I said, I do understand it has its place and purpose in the grand scheme of the album. Nonetheless, it doesn't work for me as a piece of music to listen to.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 02, 2016, 08:26:13 AM

Awesome first post.

I can truly understand how some/many fans would not connect with this if their expectations weren't tweaked in advance. This
album is a different animal with the sole intent of grandiosity, and creating a mental image through the aural medium. I just
hope that the fans who don't like it at least respect the risk they took and the amount of sheer effort that went into it's creation.

Welcome to DTF!

Thanks! I'm not entirely new. I had an account here back in the SC days but I have no clue what happened to it or all the posts I had. I worked on the BC&SL tour as an audio tech for a few dates and posted a ton of behind the scenes pictures from it. But it seems all that's gone D:

Oh well   :biggrin: Maybe I should repost it
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 02, 2016, 08:26:18 AM
having Xander flying on the back of a raven (or whatever) has nothing to do with the story...right?
I have same question about this  :huh:

Deleted scene bro
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: serrano on February 02, 2016, 08:27:27 AM
The need for the entr'acte is clear, but i share the oppinion, that it is not so good constructed as the overture. The themes don't flow so well, i think of a medley every time i listen to it, and the atmosphere is not as great. It doesn't bother me however.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 02, 2016, 08:32:12 AM
Dystopian Overture is awesome, and has a great mood that sets it apart from the rest of the album. While I understand the place and purpose of the other instrumental, it feels more patched together and doesn't flow great imo.
I think of it in terms of the live show. After an intermission of maybe 20-30 minutes (time enough to towel off, go to the bathroom, possibly change clothes, and rehydrate) the reminder of the themes that went on in act 1 would be appreciated. That's likely how they planned it. They recorded it as they'll perform it live.

As I said, I do understand it has its place and purpose in the grand scheme of the album. Nonetheless, it doesn't work for me as a piece of music to listen to.

Also, just because something is common in a given genre, doesn't mean it's either necessary or good.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TH1RT3EN on February 02, 2016, 08:32:20 AM
Daryus ends up deaf, but he still is the Crown Prince, right? So that evil bastard is the future king of an Empire where music will rise again… and he's deaf? I don't really think he'll stick to Nafaryus' plan the future… trouble is coming :sad:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on February 02, 2016, 08:34:34 AM
Daryus ends up deaf, but he still is the Crown Prince, right? So that evil bastard is the future king of an Empire where music will rise again… and he's deaf? I don't really think he'll stick to Nafaryus' plan the future… trouble is coming :sad:

Sounds like an excellent sequel. The Astonishing II: Daryus Can You Hear Me?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on February 02, 2016, 08:38:32 AM
I can definitely understand a person who started loving dream theater post 2003 not liking this album.  However it's hard to understand how fans of their classic era wouldn't be drooling over this thing.  It's literally ever single thing I want from a dream theater album.  The fact that I love rock operas just makes it that much more spectacular.

It is such a fun and eclectic musical journey and packed with so many fantastic songs and scenes.   Sure there is some cheese to it but I don't think that's ever been void of any dream theater albums.  If you love dream theater you probably love some cheese. 

Amazing album and I hope they continue to stay inspired for years to come.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 02, 2016, 08:38:57 AM
Guess what I'm listening to again at this moment? :lol

Who else had these reactions when hearing these lines in Savior in the Square:

Nafaryus: "Please don't stop on my account" Sarsastic jerk, but it inexpicably makes you so cool.

Daryus: "Do as my father says!" What an insufferable prick!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 02, 2016, 08:39:45 AM
Daryus ends up deaf, but he still is the Crown Prince, right? So that evil bastard is the future king of an Empire where music will rise again… and he's deaf? I don't really think he'll stick to Nafaryus' plan the future… trouble is coming :sad:

And why does Gabriel's music cure stabbing, but not tinnitus? :neverusethis:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 02, 2016, 08:41:51 AM
Daryus ends up deaf, but he still is the Crown Prince, right? So that evil bastard is the future king of an Empire where music will rise again… and he's deaf? I don't really think he'll stick to Nafaryus' plan the future… trouble is coming :sad:

And why does Gabriel's music cure stabbing, but not tinnitus? :neverusethis:

Because his gift only works when his music can be heard. :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on February 02, 2016, 08:43:48 AM
having Xander flying on the back of a raven (or whatever) has nothing to do with the story...right?
I have same question about this  :huh:

My theory back when the video was posted is that Ravenskill is called that way because their people literally have skills at riding giant ravens.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlackInk on February 02, 2016, 08:44:28 AM
Entr'acte left no real impression on me, but my overall impression with Dystopian Overture is that it feels disjointed. While the seperate themes within are cool, all the sudden tempo changes gives me the feeling it doesn't flow very well.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on February 02, 2016, 08:44:51 AM
And to those that complain there isn't ONE track on here that's amazing all the way through, I think the whole album is intended to be "watched" like you do a movie, from start to finish, without trying to take scenes by themselves and then lament when they don't stand on their own.

The more I listen to this, the more I hear this as a Broadway type stage play. It's pretty great!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 02, 2016, 08:45:19 AM
Daryus ends up deaf, but he still is the Crown Prince, right? So that evil bastard is the future king of an Empire where music will rise again… and he's deaf? I don't really think he'll stick to Nafaryus' plan the future… trouble is coming :sad:

And why does Gabriel's music cure stabbing, but not tinnitus? :neverusethis:

Because his gift only works when his music can be heard. :P

:lol So he can go around curing blindness, but not deafness. That's a shame.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 02, 2016, 08:48:23 AM
And to those that complain there isn't ONE track on here that's amazing all the way through, I think the whole album is intended to be "watched" like you do a movie, from start to finish, without trying to take scenes by themselves and then lament when they don't stand on their own.

The more I listen to this, the more I hear this as a Broadway type stage play. It's pretty great!

Yeah! Exactly! I was originally going to posit that the tracking indexes on the album is just there to help us understand what scene is playing and that's it  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 02, 2016, 08:51:14 AM
Daryus ends up deaf, but he still is the Crown Prince, right? So that evil bastard is the future king of an Empire where music will rise again… and he's deaf? I don't really think he'll stick to Nafaryus' plan the future… trouble is coming :sad:

And why does Gabriel's music cure stabbing, but not tinnitus? :neverusethis:
Because his gift only works when his music can be heard. :P

:lol So he can go around curing blindness, but not deafness. That's a shame.
People need to read the small text at the bottom of the contract before requesting his healing services.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on February 02, 2016, 08:51:27 AM
Stuff like this is what made me fall in love with this band in the first place. Not the crunchy riffs, although they were cool, but exactly things like this.  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 02, 2016, 08:55:21 AM
I just re upload it here https://vimeo.com/153834854  :lol
Pringka this is better than anything we officially got so far, certinly better than the trailer they gave us, great work dude  :tup
Thankyou man  ;D
But I still hope second video from astonishing website page is a great animation video, I always hope it will be Dystopian Overture Video Clip  ;D

You will find out what it is soon...

Do you know something we don't Bosky?

Of course.  That should be clear.  I know exactly what the video is, and I know it is scheduled to be posted very soon.  On the original schedule, it was supposed to have already been released.  But, again, marketing schedules are typically fluid and subject to change, and things have been moved around a bit for various reasons.  The other video is going to be pretty cool.  Nothing earth-shattering.  But I am confident most people will really enjoy it.

I am seeing very little chatter about Dystopian Overture, probably them doing another overture isn't as chatter-worthy as much of what they did elsewhere on this record, but the middle section where the orchestra plays one of the main themes followed by the full band coming back in with the choir singing is freaking AWESOME. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

I know it is easy to get lost in all that has been posted, but I raved about it a week or so before release saying that, IMO, it could very well be the best overture they have done and is up there among the best pure instrumental songs. 

A thought on the live production of this album. I mean, I love JP and all, but it would do the show a great disservice to have him as the only other singer to JLB. A few really skilled backup singers would just push this album over the top.

Thoughts?

I agree with you that that would be best.  But I am not sure they plan on bringing any other vocalists, so I am trying to temper my expectations in the likely event that the backup vocals are simply done by JP and a backing track.  I think that is the most likely scenario even though it may not be optimal.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 02, 2016, 08:57:37 AM
One of the reasons it's second for me behind SFAM is that I appreciate it as a large collective work, just like SFAM.  These albums are more than just a collection of random songs.  Whether you like it or whether you don't....

And dat artwork tho! I love that artwork for the places were created.  That wasn't necessary to the music, but it adds to the imagination. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 02, 2016, 08:59:19 AM
I'm always opposed to the idea of bringing guest vocalists due to how it would attach the specific songs to people who are not always going to be available in future tours. The lady from SFAM had about as big a role as I would like a guest vocalist to have on a DT album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 02, 2016, 09:03:44 AM
I'm always opposed to the idea of bringing guest vocalists due to how it would attach the specific songs to people who are not always going to be available in future tours. The lady from SFAM had about as big a role as I would like a guest vocalist to have on a DT album.
Yeah... I can't watch the Live Metropolis version of Spirit Carries On without tearing up a bit at the end. Theresa Thomason and that choir MADE that song what it is. And it's never the same without them.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 02, 2016, 09:04:31 AM
Everyone mostly agrees that they'd gotten into a rut of sorts

Good post.  But as for the part I quoted, just...no.  Yes, that is a common opinion.  But it is also a minority one, even if it may be a sizable minority.  Personally, I have NEVER felt that the band was in a "rut."  Ever.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 02, 2016, 09:06:57 AM
Everyone mostly agrees that they'd gotten into a rut of sorts

Good post.  But as for the part I quoted, just...no.  Yes, that is a common opinion.  But it is also a minority one, even if it may be a sizable minority.  Personally, I have NEVER felt that the band was in a "rut."  Ever.
Eh.. the word "Mostly" was in there for a reason. I personally didn't feel that way either, but a good portion of fellow fans I know did. Your mileage may vary.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: FlyingBIZKIT on February 02, 2016, 09:13:34 AM
It's hard for me to find time to sit down and listen to The Astonishing in full, and I still dont really know the album all that well. I feel like it's easy for me to break it down into several small chunks, like 3-5 songs at a time. Any suggestions on what would be good combinations ?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 02, 2016, 09:15:47 AM
Everyone mostly agrees that they'd gotten into a rut of sorts

Good post.  But as for the part I quoted, just...no.  Yes, that is a common opinion.  But it is also a minority one, even if it may be a sizable minority.  Personally, I have NEVER felt that the band was in a "rut."  Ever.
Eh.. the word "Mostly" was in there for a reason. I personally didn't feel that way either, but a good portion of fellow fans I know did. Your mileage may vary.

No problem.  But when people post something that assumes a general consensus that is probably not actually the consensus, I just feel the need to step in and point out that that assumption is not entirely accurate. 

Anyhow, that is largely immaterial to the discussion as a whole, so...carry on.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 02, 2016, 09:16:42 AM
It's hard for me to find time to sit down and listen to The Astonishing in full, and I still dont really know the album all that well. I feel like it's easy for me to break it down into several small chunks, like 3-5 songs at a time. Any suggestions on what would be good combinations ?

Personally, if I had to pick a favorite, standout section of the album, it would be the run of songs in Act I from Ravenskill through A New Beginning.  That is a good combo to get a good flavor for both the music and the story. 

To me, some of the "chunks" that I feel have good flow and I am beginning to gain the most familiarity are: 
-Act I, tracks 1-8 (yeah, I know that is a LONG stretch, but it makes logical sense in terms of story, and has a good pacing; to me, the pacing drops off a bit at Act of Faythe).
-Act I, tracks 14-19 (which is what I recommended above)
-Act II, tracks 1-5 (sets up the first half of Act II nicely and has really good flow)
-Act II, tracks 7-10 (these songs just feel right as one unit, and are unified by the action of the story)
-Act II, tracks 11-14 (as with the previous section, this section is very unified in terms of the action of the story; music-wise, it is less intense and doesn't feel as climactic as I would normally expect for the conclusion of an album. But it fits together well, so to respond to your question about logical "chunks," this one makes sense in terms of helping digest the story)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on February 02, 2016, 09:17:16 AM
Everyone mostly agrees that they'd gotten into a rut of sorts

Good post.  But as for the part I quoted, just...no.  Yes, that is a common opinion.  But it is also a minority one, even if it may be a sizable minority.  Personally, I have NEVER felt that the band was in a "rut."  Ever.
Eh.. the word "Mostly" was in there for a reason. I personally didn't feel that way either, but a good portion of fellow fans I know did. Your mileage may vary.

Also, I think 'rut' is a tricky word as I believe in bands trying new directions/styles in growth through the years, but I also want to hear them as "them" by keeping to a certain familiarity that attracted me to the music in the first place, which some would call a 'rut', I guess, if that makes sense.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 02, 2016, 09:18:24 AM
Everyone mostly agrees that they'd gotten into a rut of sorts

Good post.  But as for the part I quoted, just...no.  Yes, that is a common opinion.  But it is also a minority one, even if it may be a sizable minority.  Personally, I have NEVER felt that the band was in a "rut."  Ever.
Eh.. the word "Mostly" was in there for a reason. I personally didn't feel that way either, but a good portion of fellow fans I know did. Your mileage may vary.

No problem.  But when people post something that assumes a general consensus that is probably not actually the consensus, I just feel the need to step in and point out that that assumption is not entirely accurate. 

Anyhow, that is largely immaterial to the discussion as a whole, so...carry on.
:tup[
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 02, 2016, 09:28:01 AM
It's hard for me to find time to sit down and listen to The Astonishing in full, and I still dont really know the album all that well. I feel like it's easy for me to break it down into several small chunks, like 3-5 songs at a time. Any suggestions on what would be good combinations ?

This may seem like a joke, but break it up based on the NOMACS tracks. It works.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 02, 2016, 09:28:43 AM
It's hard for me to find time to sit down and listen to The Astonishing in full, and I still dont really know the album all that well. I feel like it's easy for me to break it down into several small chunks, like 3-5 songs at a time. Any suggestions on what would be good combinations ?

This may seem like a joke, but break it up based on the NOMACS tracks. It works.
Yeah, that's not a bad way to do it either. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 02, 2016, 09:32:14 AM
DTF overanalyzing time:

Listen to the much talked about extended intro jam of Trial of Tears during the South American leg of the Along for the Ride tour. What The Astonishing song could have possible been born out of that jam? ;)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TH1RT3EN on February 02, 2016, 09:32:26 AM
Daryus ends up deaf, but he still is the Crown Prince, right? So that evil bastard is the future king of an Empire where music will rise again… and he's deaf? I don't really think he'll stick to Nafaryus' plan for the future… trouble is coming :sad:

And why does Gabriel's music cure stabbing, but not tinnitus? :neverusethis:
Because his gift only works when his music can be heard. :P

:lol So he can go around curing blindness, but not deafness. That's a shame.
People need to read the small text at the bottom of the contract before requesting his healing services.

I suppose there are no hospitals in T.G.N.E. anymore, just music venues for Gabriel to play his show :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 02, 2016, 09:32:27 AM
I can't understand people complaining The Astonishing isn't technical enough.

It's their THIRTEENTH album.

if you want technical Dream Theater - go and listen to any of the past TWELVE albums....

::)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 02, 2016, 09:33:19 AM
Daryus ends up deaf, but he still is the Crown Prince, right? So that evil bastard is the future king of an Empire where music will rise again… and he's deaf? I don't really think he'll stick to Nafaryus' plan for the future… trouble is coming :sad:

And why does Gabriel's music cure stabbing, but not tinnitus? :neverusethis:
Because his gift only works when his music can be heard. :P

:lol So he can go around curing blindness, but not deafness. That's a shame.
People need to read the small text at the bottom of the contract before requesting his healing services.

I suppose there are no hospitals in T.G.N.E. anymore, just music venues for Gabriel to play his show :lol

Heaven's Cove Hospital?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 02, 2016, 09:35:53 AM
Everyone mostly agrees that they'd gotten into a rut of sorts

Good post.  But as for the part I quoted, just...no.  Yes, that is a common opinion.  But it is also a minority one, even if it may be a sizable minority.  Personally, I have NEVER felt that the band was in a "rut."  Ever.
Eh.. the word "Mostly" was in there for a reason. I personally didn't feel that way either, but a good portion of fellow fans I know did. Your mileage may vary.

Also, I think 'rut' is a tricky word as I believe in bands trying new directions/styles in growth through the years, but I also want to hear them as "them" by keeping to a certain familiarity that attracted me to the music in the first place, which some would call a 'rut', I guess, if that makes sense.
Depends on what you got into them for in the first place. I'm always amazed when people say they got into this band for how heavy they are. Personally, I've never thought of them as such 0_o

Heavy at times sure. But it was their compositions and diversity that brought me in and have kept me here. TA has all that and more. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on February 02, 2016, 09:37:30 AM
I can't understand people complaining The Astonishing isn't technical enough.

It's their THIRTEENTH album.

if you want technical Dream Theater - go and listen to any of the past TWELVE albums....

::)

And even though it may not be their most technical album, I probably still couldn't play more than half of it on guitar :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 02, 2016, 09:37:39 AM
My theory back when the video was posted is that Ravenskill is called that way because their people literally have skills at riding giant ravens.
I'm assuming it's just a cool-sounding place name JP came up with based on real places.  There are a lot of "kills" in the NY area and thereabouts -- it's a Dutch word for creek or river.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on February 02, 2016, 09:37:53 AM
I've climbed the mountain that is this thread, and I'm not surprised by anything I've read. Lots of unique opinions, and for 2+ hours of music, I'm glad to see mostly positive reactions. I'm disappointed by the lack of love given specifically to the song Ravenskill (I think it might be my favorite, I'm still deliberating), but one thing remains clear: This album requires multiple listens. Unless you're the type of person who specifically seeks out analysis and breakdowns, there are so many nuggets in this album, and links and themes that the gravity of it is almost certainly something that bears weight (no pun intended).

RE: A New Beginning fade out - I have a feeling the fade out is 1) due to the time constraint of mortal CDs and 2) an opportunity for the band to take an extended jam session in the live show. I don't think it abrupt or out of place (especially given what it leads up to). I will say that I mistakenly coined it as the end of act 1 the first 3-4 listens, forgetting that The Road to Revolution is right after.

RE: My muuusiiiic plaaaaayerrrrr - I didn't find it as grating as I expected from early reviews, and my wife outright loves the song. This was discussed somewhere else, but I think there's just a certain level of 'cheese' that us manly metal men have problems digesting because we think it 'uncool'. When my wife said she started liking Act of Faythe more than Three Days, I started to gain an understanding from her outside perspective. Nothing on the album reached levels of "I'm just a poor girl..." or "Beginnings get complicated..." to me.

I'm still listening 30 minutes at a time to and from work every day, and this weekend I'll sit down again with the HDTracks version.

Speaking of the HD version, if anyone has the regular cd and the HD tracks, is there a significant difference?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: shadow1psc on February 02, 2016, 09:37:56 AM
I feel like the DT 'rut' was most apparent during BCSL. I'm probably of the minority who thinks that ADToE was a feeling of revitalization in the DT camp. Did they play it a bit safe? Maybe, but I felt the fun and enjoyment in the music they made. DT12 felt like an attempt to buckle down and make something cohesive (Illumination Theory not withstanding) that could come across as their most radio safe record as a whole. The Astonishing completely surpassed all expectations set by the current lineup IMO. Nothing safe, standard or ordinary about this album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 02, 2016, 09:38:49 AM
I remember thinking a while back that DT albums would slowly get less fast and technical so they could continue to play live as they get older.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: shadow1psc on February 02, 2016, 09:39:07 AM
Post

Speaking of the HD version, if anyone has the regular cd and the HD tracks, is there a significant difference?

I A/B'd them very quickly, but it's so hard to give impressions when the production and mixing literally changes track by track.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 02, 2016, 09:39:24 AM
It's hard for me to find time to sit down and listen to The Astonishing in full, and I still dont really know the album all that well. I feel like it's easy for me to break it down into several small chunks, like 3-5 songs at a time. Any suggestions on what would be good combinations ?

This may seem like a joke, but break it up based on the NOMACS tracks. It works.
Yeah, that's not a bad way to do it either. 
Doesn't seem like a joke at all -- that's how the band intended it to be broken up, yeah?  I assumed that's why they put the NOMAC tracks where they are.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TH1RT3EN on February 02, 2016, 09:39:48 AM
Daryus ends up deaf, but he still is the Crown Prince, right? So that evil bastard is the future king of an Empire where music will rise again… and he's deaf? I don't really think he'll stick to Nafaryus' plan for the future… trouble is coming :sad:

And why does Gabriel's music cure stabbing, but not tinnitus? :neverusethis:
Because his gift only works when his music can be heard. :P

:lol So he can go around curing blindness, but not deafness. That's a shame.
People need to read the small text at the bottom of the contract before requesting his healing services.

I suppose there are no hospitals in T.G.N.E. anymore, just music venues for Gabriel to play his show :lol

Heaven's Cove Hospital?

"Heaven's Cove" sounds more like a spa resort to me. I wouldn't mind having a healing session in a place like that :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 02, 2016, 09:40:12 AM
I'm probably of the minority who thinks that ADToE was a feeling of revitalization in the DT camp.

No, not at all.  That is the general consensus. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: shadow1psc on February 02, 2016, 09:41:54 AM
I can't understand people complaining The Astonishing isn't technical enough.

It's their THIRTEENTH album.

if you want technical Dream Theater - go and listen to any of the past TWELVE albums....

::)

And even though it may not be their most technical album, I probably still couldn't play more than half of it on guitar :lol

If anyone wants an idea of the technicality (that I thought was already very apparent), just go look at the Match the Master videos. I consider myself a good guitarist, and I can only jump in to two out of the ten provided riffs.

I've also always been of the mindset that complexity isn't always about the individual players either. Look at Pain of Salvation - some of their best and most complex sounding parts simply come from the juxtaposition they create between two simpler guitar parts. You get a lot of that on The Astonishing between JP and JR.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on February 02, 2016, 09:43:07 AM
My theory back when the video was posted is that Ravenskill is called that way because their people literally have skills at riding giant ravens.
I'm assuming it's just a cool-sounding place name JP came up with based on real places.  There are a lot of "kills" in the NY area and thereabouts -- it's a Dutch word for creek or river.

Yeah, my theory was not meant to be taken seriously. I also figured it was just for the cool factor. Although I didn't knew about the fact there was a lot ''kills'' in the area of New-York. And I also didn't knew what it meant. So thanks for the new knowledge  :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 02, 2016, 09:44:33 AM
I feel like the DT 'rut' was most apparent during BCSL. I'm probably of the minority who thinks that ADToE was a feeling of revitalization in the DT camp. Did they play it a bit safe? Maybe, but I felt the fun and enjoyment in the music they made.

Never understood this opinion at all. ADTOE is the most stale rutty album DT have ever made imo, going through the motions to stay on their regular schedule (that's not to say it's bad, I mostly liked it, but I feel no excitement or energy in it, and it wore out quickly). The fun element disappeared when MP left, and finally returned with TA. This album is the first time in a while I've felt that energy and passion that I get from those older albums like SFAM. I can't wait to hear what they do when they return to a regular album format.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: shadow1psc on February 02, 2016, 09:47:13 AM
I feel like the DT 'rut' was most apparent during BCSL. I'm probably of the minority who thinks that ADToE was a feeling of revitalization in the DT camp. Did they play it a bit safe? Maybe, but I felt the fun and enjoyment in the music they made.

Never understood this opinion at all. ADTOE is the most stale rutty album DT have ever made imo, going through the motions to stay on their regular schedule (that's not to say it's bad, I mostly liked it, but I feel no excitement or energy in it, and it wore out quickly). The fun element disappeared when MP left, and finally returned with TA. This album is the first time in a while I've felt that energy and passion that I get from say SFAM. I can't wait to hear what they do when they return to a regular album format.

I don't know how you listen to LNF, BitS, Outcry and BAI and not feel the energy and fun. I would understand people saying DT12 is stale and rutty (something about the dark production), but ADToE had the spark for me, and clearly for the band.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 02, 2016, 09:47:51 AM
My theory back when the video was posted is that Ravenskill is called that way because their people literally have skills at riding giant ravens.
I'm assuming it's just a cool-sounding place name JP came up with based on real places.  There are a lot of "kills" in the NY area and thereabouts -- it's a Dutch word for creek or river.
Yeah, my theory was not meant to be taken seriously. I also figured it was just for the cool factor. Although I didn't knew about the fact there was a lot ''kills'' in the area of New-York. And I also didn't knew what it meant. So thanks for the new knowledge  :)
Haha figured.  And yeah, there's Arthur Kill, Fresh Kills, Kill van Kull... the Schuylkill which runs through Philly, and a lot down in Delaware too, including the amazingly named Murderkill River.  * The More You Know *
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: me7 on February 02, 2016, 09:48:46 AM
Speaking of the HD version, if anyone has the regular cd and the HD tracks, is there a significant difference?

No discernable difference at all. Same master as the CD, just additional frequencies above the threshold of human hearing.
The previous albums were volume gained during CD production which caused some clipping. This time around, the waveforms look exactly alike and my A/B/X attempt proved fruitless.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 02, 2016, 09:49:54 AM
The FLAC version of the album sounds killer. I was considering spending some money on the HDtracks version, but with the FLAC sounding as good as it does, I'm pretty happy with that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 02, 2016, 09:50:57 AM
I feel like the DT 'rut' was most apparent during BCSL. I'm probably of the minority who thinks that ADToE was a feeling of revitalization in the DT camp. Did they play it a bit safe? Maybe, but I felt the fun and enjoyment in the music they made. DT12 felt like an attempt to buckle down and make something cohesive (Illumination Theory not withstanding) that could come across as their most radio safe record as a whole. The Astonishing completely surpassed all expectations set by the current lineup IMO. Nothing safe, standard or ordinary about this album.

100% agree on all that.
Not a minority at all, ADToE is a DT at what they do best, every song was amazing in it's own way and it aged real well, I think it's the best post-6 Degrees album, not including The Astonishing cause it's still too early to say that IMO.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 02, 2016, 09:52:42 AM
I feel like the DT 'rut' was most apparent during BCSL. I'm probably of the minority who thinks that ADToE was a feeling of revitalization in the DT camp. Did they play it a bit safe? Maybe, but I felt the fun and enjoyment in the music they made.

Never understood this opinion at all. ADTOE is the most stale rutty album DT have ever made imo, going through the motions to stay on their regular schedule (that's not to say it's bad, I mostly liked it, but I feel no excitement or energy in it, and it wore out quickly). The fun element disappeared when MP left, and finally returned with TA. This album is the first time in a while I've felt that energy and passion that I get from say SFAM. I can't wait to hear what they do when they return to a regular album format.

I don't know how you listen to LNF, BitS, Outcry and BAI and not feel the energy and fun. I would understand people saying DT12 is stale and rutty (something about the dark production), but ADToE had the spark for me, and clearly for the band.

LNF and BITS are the most energetic of the album, but Outcry and BAI felt pretty by the numbers to me, and I don't think that highly of either of them. It all still felt lacking to me compared to previous albums though.
After the previous two albums, my expectations for this one were at an all time low for DT, but this album really surprised me and renewed my interest.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on February 02, 2016, 09:53:18 AM
I've also always been of the mindset that complexity isn't always about the individual players either. Look at Pain of Salvation - some of their best and most complex sounding parts simply come from the juxtaposition they create between two simpler guitar parts. You get a lot of that on The Astonishing between JP and JR.

I also agree with that. I would guess in term of soundscape it's probably the most complex album they've made. You have each indivual band member doing their thing, then you have an orchestra, choirs and more.

And some of the songs are also very dynamic in terms of structure. It reminds me a bit of When and Dream Unite where you have songs of more standard lenght, but don't necessarily follow a ''regular'' song structure. I'd say that also adds a level of complexity.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peace and Love on February 02, 2016, 09:56:51 AM
I have read people complaining that this is album is musically too simple.

Let me just say  :facepalm:

I played along to A Life Left Behind on my piano last night and was marvelling at JP+JR's composition. For such a serene sounding, typical 6/8 ballad - they really pulled out all the stops. MULTIPLE modulations of key centre between verse and chorus, and multiple shifts of mood as well - all packed into one badass song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 02, 2016, 09:56:55 AM
Is The Astonishing generally considered a bad album by most fans? I was looking at this site:
https://www.sputnikmusic.com/bands/Dream-Theater/49/ (https://www.sputnikmusic.com/bands/Dream-Theater/49/)
and saw that it is so far rates as the second worst DT album, only ahead of WDADU. I come here and see 80-90 percent of people really liking it, and other places everyone seem to hate it...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 02, 2016, 09:59:36 AM
People who are active in various internet forums/sites are not the majority of fans. Not by a long shot.

Even if DT12 is considered a 'mediocre' album by lots of internet fans, it was pretty well received live (where the whole scope of fandom is truly visible).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 02, 2016, 10:00:59 AM
Is The Astonishing generally considered a bad album by most fans? I was looking at this site:
https://www.sputnikmusic.com/bands/Dream-Theater/49/ (https://www.sputnikmusic.com/bands/Dream-Theater/49/)
and saw that it is so far rates as the second worst DT album, only ahead of WDADU. I come here and see 80-90 percent of people really liking it, and other places everyone seem to hate it...

I do find that DTF generally rates the MM era albums higher than the general internet, however I'd largely put it down to people giving it one listen and dismissing it, unlike the more dedicated fans here who give an album a fairer chance to sink in.

I have read people complaining that this is album is musically too simple.

Let me just say  :facepalm:

I played along to A Life Left Behind on my piano last night and was marvelling at JP+JR's composition. For such a serene sounding, typical 6/8 ballad - they really pulled out all the stops. MULTIPLE modulations of key centre between verse and chorus, and multiple shifts of mood as well - all packed into one badass song.

I couldn't care less how simple or complex a piece of music is, I only care about how good it is. If you dislike great music like this because it's not 10+ minutes long with dueling solos in 13/8 in the middle, you're doing it wrong.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: FlyingBIZKIT on February 02, 2016, 10:01:16 AM
It's hard for me to find time to sit down and listen to The Astonishing in full, and I still dont really know the album all that well. I feel like it's easy for me to break it down into several small chunks, like 3-5 songs at a time. Any suggestions on what would be good combinations ?

Personally, if I had to pick a favorite, standout section of the album, it would be the run of songs in Act I from Ravenskill through A New Beginning.  That is a good combo to get a good flavor for both the music and the story. 

To me, some of the "chunks" that I feel have good flow and I am beginning to gain the most familiarity are: 
-Act I, tracks 1-8 (yeah, I know that is a LONG stretch, but it makes logical sense in terms of story, and has a good pacing; to me, the pacing drops off a bit at Act of Faythe).
-Act I, tracks 14-19 (which is what I recommended above)
-Act II, tracks 1-5 (sets up the first half of Act II nicely and has really good flow)
-Act II, tracks 7-10 (these songs just feel right as one unit, and are unified by the action of the story)
-Act II, tracks 11-14 (as with the previous section, this section is very unified in terms of the action of the story; music-wise, it is less intense and doesn't feel as climactic as I would normally expect for the conclusion of an album. But it fits together well, so to respond to your question about logical "chunks," this one makes sense in terms of helping digest the story)

Okay, this seems nice. I'll try this and see it how it is. Thanks.

It's hard for me to find time to sit down and listen to The Astonishing in full, and I still dont really know the album all that well. I feel like it's easy for me to break it down into several small chunks, like 3-5 songs at a time. Any suggestions on what would be good combinations ?

This may seem like a joke, but break it up based on the NOMACS tracks. It works.

Oh wow, didn't think about this. This definitely works too. Thanks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 02, 2016, 10:06:00 AM
I have read people complaining that this is album is musically too simple.

Let me just say  :facepalm:

I played along to A Life Left Behind on my piano last night and was marvelling at JP+JR's composition. For such a serene sounding, typical 6/8 ballad - they really pulled out all the stops. MULTIPLE modulations of key centre between verse and chorus, and multiple shifts of mood as well - all packed into one badass song.

I only care about songs. End of.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 02, 2016, 10:20:56 AM
The best way to split the album up is in three parts, as myself and others have previously suggested. This means the first two parts (i.e. two halves of Act I) are around 40 mins each, and the third part is around 50 minutes but more like 45 mins if you don't bother with the final track (which in my opinion is unnecessary anyway).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 02, 2016, 10:26:18 AM
I have a weird feeling today. I just hope i'm not in the mood for music, because i have absolutely no desire to listen to the album. I've only listened to it five times, and it was getting better every time. The fifth time i believe every track except the Nomac tracks gave me chills. I tried listening to it yesterday but i wasn't feeling it, so i turned it off halfway though. Today i just don't want to put it on. I don't understand it, because i absolutely love the album...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 02, 2016, 10:28:55 AM
I'm not going to over listen to this album because I did that with Dream Theater and I got sick of it really quickly.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: E.S. on February 02, 2016, 10:31:29 AM
What came to mind when I saw the artwork...
(https://img.lum.dolimg.com/v1/images/databank_buzzdroid_01_169_e6c40327.jpeg?region=0%2C0%2C1560%2C878&width=768)

Didn't care for the previous album, to be honest... but I enjoy this one a lot! Not trying to be "metal" for the sake of it, to fit in with what's cool or whatever kids like these days.

Get off my damn lawn!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: IdoSC on February 02, 2016, 10:39:05 AM
Daryus ends up deaf, but he still is the Crown Prince, right? So that evil bastard is the future king of an Empire where music will rise again… and he's deaf? I don't really think he'll stick to Nafaryus' plan the future… trouble is coming :sad:
I highly doubt they're obliged to keep the father to son tradition as it has only been there for less than 300 years. Considering how Gabriel will marry the princess, Nafaryus owes his daughter's life to Gabriel, the people owe their freedom to Gabriel, Daryus defied his parents' orders, and he will be deaf in a more musical society than ever...

...I bet Nafaryus will pass the crown to either Gabriel or Faythe. Probably Faythe, considering how she's so determined to "be a voice for change to build a world that's fair and true so they can live the life they never knew" bla bla. Unless they plan a sequel. Which they probably don't.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: IdoSC on February 02, 2016, 10:41:47 AM
I have a weird feeling today. I just hope i'm not in the mood for music, because i have absolutely no desire to listen to the album. I've only listened to it five times, and it was getting better every time. The fifth time i believe every track except the Nomac tracks gave me chills. I tried listening to it yesterday but i wasn't feeling it, so i turned it off halfway though. Today i just don't want to put it on. I don't understand it, because i absolutely love the album...
That's over 11 hours of music, you're probably just zoned out.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 02, 2016, 10:46:37 AM
I have a weird feeling today. I just hope i'm not in the mood for music, because i have absolutely no desire to listen to the album. I've only listened to it five times, and it was getting better every time. The fifth time i believe every track except the Nomac tracks gave me chills. I tried listening to it yesterday but i wasn't feeling it, so i turned it off halfway though. Today i just don't want to put it on. I don't understand it, because i absolutely love the album...
That's over 11 hours of music, you're probably just zoned out.

I hope and believe that it's just this. I haven't had a desire to listen to anything else either. 11 hours of intense active listening in just three days might be too much for me  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 02, 2016, 10:47:51 AM
I've listened to it in full everyday since it's came out and I have a feeling that's gonna go on for a while heh
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Podaar on February 02, 2016, 10:49:32 AM
Me too. It keeps getting better and better.

I've got a ton of paperwork to do right now so I'm going to put it on again.  :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Chino on February 02, 2016, 10:57:52 AM
I'm on listen number 8 or 9. Still really enjoying it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlackInk on February 02, 2016, 11:00:17 AM
I hope and believe that it's just this. I haven't had a desire to listen to anything else either.

I'm in one of those periods right now. Been going pretty strong for a few months now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 02, 2016, 11:13:39 AM
I'm on listen number 8 or 9. Still really enjoying it.
I'm in the same boat as well, although I haven't had the time to sit through more than an Act at a time in the last two days because of work.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shadow2222 on February 02, 2016, 11:23:21 AM
I'm on listen number 8 or 9. Still really enjoying it.
I'm in the same boat as well, although I haven't had the time to sit through more than an Act at a time in the last two days because of work.  :lol

Yep, exactly this! I can't stop listening to it whenever I have an opportunity.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 02, 2016, 11:32:48 AM
I hope and believe that it's just this. I haven't had a desire to listen to anything else either.

I'm in one of those periods right now. Been going pretty strong for a few months now.

Yeah i have a few of those periods in a year. Sometimes i might go a a couple of weeks without listening to a single song actively, but then when feel the desire again, i go all in  ;) I might be tempted to skip around the album some, and not listen to it in full soon.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 02, 2016, 11:42:51 AM
I don't see how any DT fan could hate on Moment Of Betrayal.  Snare sound aside, and no it doesn't sound like Awake, but isn't songs like this why you listen to DT???  It is for me. 

Heh...yea...when I first saw Ravenskill I thought of the killing of ravens.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YtseJamittaja on February 02, 2016, 11:58:35 AM
Noob question but can somebody say which are each characters' themes/melodies? Faythe is quite obvious (Act of Faythe)  but others?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on February 02, 2016, 12:02:17 PM
I never found ADTOE to be uninspired but I honestly just don't think its very good. I know this is not popular opinion but outside of Breaking All Illusions I found it to be a bit bit rough on the ears. Not counting the beautiful ballads of course.   I found DT, the album, to be a nice return to form so I felt like the trend was good coming into The Astonishing.  However, I never in a million years thought they had it in them to make an album that rivaled their classics again so I am just so pleasantly shocked at how amazing The Astonishing is. 

The most shocking part of this album is JLB.   Where has he been for the past 15 years?   He sounds amazing on this album, nearly as good as he did on SDOIT.. maybe even as good.     

Is it possible that Portnoy was not allowing him to sing as flamboyantly and over the top?  Or perhaps it was the way they were producing the vocals?      James' soaring over the top vocals is what originally got me into DT so its nice to see him released from his cage on this album!   

I think this is the first album since SDOIT that doesn't sound like it was produced as a "metal" album which completely brought the magic back for me as I have always been more a fan of their progressive side.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on February 02, 2016, 12:06:13 PM
Bosk1,  sorry about starting that thread about the encores. I didn't think to check the live concert category. I didn't realize.. My bad!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 02, 2016, 12:08:02 PM
The most shocking part of this album is JLB.   Where has he been for the past 15 years?   He sounds amazing on this album, nearly as good as he did on SDOIT.. maybe even as good.     

On his solo albums. And as for me, he has always been there, in DT, solo or in anything that he has sung.

Is it possible that Portnoy was not allowing him to sing as flamboyantly and over the top?  Or perhaps it was the way they were producing the vocals?      James' soaring over the top vocals is what originally got me into DT so its nice to see him released from his cage on this album!   

Portnoy wanted him to sound like James Hetfield. Or well, the band wanted him to, considering unlikely that Portnoy held the others at gun point while they were writing Constant Motion, This Dying Soul and the likes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on February 02, 2016, 12:10:18 PM
I
Can't
Stop
Listening
To
This
Album


I'm getting closer and closer to calling this something that starts with M.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 02, 2016, 12:16:22 PM
Noob question but can somebody say which are each characters' themes/melodies? Faythe is quite obvious (Act of Faythe)  but others?

Faythe - Act of Faythe themes
Gabriel -  The Answer Themes and it's variations
Arhys - Brother Can You Hear Me? / A better life themes
Nefaryus - Anything dark, evil and edgy (with a Disney villain feel)  ;D 

Xander, Evangeline and The Empress don't really seem to have a reoccurring theme of their own.

Nearest I can tell anyways. You can hear the different themes revisited on the final track 34 Astonishing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 02, 2016, 12:23:26 PM
And here's another reason why you have to listen to DT albums like this several times...

I'm on probably the the 10th listen through or so, and just now caught the forshadowing of "Our New World" as the intro to "A Savior In The Square"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 02, 2016, 12:25:45 PM
Noob question but can somebody say which are each characters' themes/melodies? Faythe is quite obvious (Act of Faythe)  but others?

Faythe - Act of Faythe themes
Gabriel -  The Answer Themes and it's variations
Arhys - Brother Can You Hear Me? / A better life themes
Nefaryus - Anything dark, evil and edgy (with a Disney villain feel)  ;D 

Xander, Evangeline and The Empress don't really seem to have a reoccurring theme of their own.

Nearest I can tell anyways. You can hear the different themes revisited on the final track 34 Astonishing.
Themes seem less assigned by character and more assigned by emotion / mood.

There's a "musical analysis" thread that might have more on this (but I haven't checked it recently).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 02, 2016, 12:26:00 PM
I'm generally a fan of this guy, but he just doesn't get prog rock/metal it seems... He's almost always bashing prog when he reviews it, but to call The Astonishing "All proficiency, no soul" is just wrong.
https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=3m3s (https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=3m3s)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 02, 2016, 12:28:35 PM
Noob question but can somebody say which are each characters' themes/melodies? Faythe is quite obvious (Act of Faythe)  but others?

Faythe - Act of Faythe themes
Gabriel -  The Answer Themes and it's variations
Arhys - Brother Can You Hear Me? / A better life themes
Nefaryus - Anything dark, evil and edgy (with a Disney villain feel)  ;D 

Xander, Evangeline and The Empress don't really seem to have a reoccurring theme of their own.

Nearest I can tell anyways. You can hear the different themes revisited on the final track 34 Astonishing.
Themes seem less assigned by character and more assigned by emotion / mood.

There's a "musical analysis" thread that might have more on this (but I haven't checked it recently).
Yeah, you're not wrong in the slightest. The themes are more based on events or emotions rather than character. But if you had to draw a dotted line to each one, that's how I'd do it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Randaran on February 02, 2016, 12:34:08 PM
I don't see how any DT fan could hate on Moment Of Betrayal.  Snare sound aside, and no it doesn't sound like Awake, but isn't songs like this why you listen to DT???  It is for me. 

Heh...yea...when I first saw Ravenskill I thought of the killing of ravens.

MoB is my second least favorite song on the album. I attribute this largely to the rhythm guitar, which sounds awful. I would like the song a lot more if the distorted guitar tone from Heaven's Cove was used instead.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thoughtspart3 on February 02, 2016, 12:37:31 PM
Man, I just love the main rift and grove of Our New World.  Have never heard anything like this from DT before.

This is definitely such a fresh and inspired album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 02, 2016, 12:40:41 PM
Faythe - Act of Faythe themes
Gabriel -  The Answer Themes and it's variations
Arhys - Brother Can You Hear Me? / A better life themes
Nefaryus - Anything dark, evil and edgy (with a Disney villain feel)  ;D 

Xander, Evangeline and The Empress don't really seem to have a reoccurring theme of their own.

Nearest I can tell anyways. You can hear the different themes revisited on the final track 34 Astonishing.
And Daryus, I would say, is the main theme of A Tempting Offer and its variations near the end of The Path That Divides.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 02, 2016, 12:40:54 PM
I'm generally a fan of this guy, but he just doesn't get prog rock/metal it seems... He's almost always bashing prog when he reviews it, but to call The Astonishing "All proficiency, no soul" is just wrong.
https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=3m3s (https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=3m3s)

He's full of shit, he says he's hoping the album would put the final nail into rock opera's coffin, what fan of music would wish something like that on fellow fans? I fuckin hate rap but I don't wish it to die since I know that brings it's fans joy!
Except dance music that's made for the sole purpose of dancing in big parties/raves, these fuckers deserve joy to be taken away from them. /hypocrisy in the afternoon
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 02, 2016, 12:42:14 PM
I'm generally a fan of this guy, but he just doesn't get prog rock/metal it seems... He's almost always bashing prog when he reviews it, but to call The Astonishing "All proficiency, no soul" is just wrong.
https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=3m3s (https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=3m3s)

I generally don't pay attention to people like that. They're never going to get it, and they don't want to. It could be the most soulful prog CD ever, and this guy would find some way to denigrate it.

Man, I just love the main rift and grove of Our New World.  Have never heard anything like this from DT before.


I thought the same thing. I said this in another thread but it reminds me of a hair metal band riff.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 02, 2016, 12:46:23 PM
I'm generally a fan of this guy, but he just doesn't get prog rock/metal it seems... He's almost always bashing prog when he reviews it, but to call The Astonishing "All proficiency, no soul" is just wrong.
https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=3m3s (https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=3m3s)

He's full of shit, he says he's hoping the album would put the final nail into rock opera's coffin, what fan of music would wish something like that on fellow fans? I fuckin hate rap but I don't wish it to die since I know that brings it's fans joy!
Except dance music that's made for the sole purpose of dancing in big parties/raves, these fuckers deserve joy to be taken away from them. /hypocrisy in the afternoon

Couldn't have said it better myself! I just lost most of my respect for that guy. He was bashing the latest two Steven Wilson albums as well.

Edit: mistyping
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 02, 2016, 12:47:28 PM
I'm generally a fan of this guy, but he just doesn't get prog rock/metal it seems... He's almost always bashing prog when he reviews it, but to call The Astonishing "All proficiency, no soul" is just wrong.
https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=3m3s (https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=3m3s)

He's full of shit, he says he's hoping the album would put the final nail into rock opera's coffin, what fan of music would wish something like that on fellow fans? I fuckin hate rap but I don't wish it to die since I know that brings it's fans joy!
Except dance music that's made for the sole purpose of dancing in big parties/raves, these fuckers deserve joy to be taken away from them. /hypocrisy in the afternoon

 "Stop liking what I don't like"



Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 02, 2016, 12:49:10 PM
He was bashing the las\test two Steven Wilson albums as well.

Wait...so now he does have good taste?  I'm confused.  ???
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on February 02, 2016, 12:54:28 PM
He was bashing the las\test two Steven Wilson albums as well.

Wait...so now he does have good taste?  I'm confused.  ???

(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/download%201_zpsfaos0oat.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/download%201_zpsfaos0oat.jpg.html)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on February 02, 2016, 12:56:39 PM
Just realized what an amazing one-two punch "Heaven's Cove" and "Begin Again" are. Late to the party as always...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on February 02, 2016, 12:57:31 PM
He was bashing the las\test two Steven Wilson albums as well.

Wait...so now he does have good taste?  I'm confused.  ???

(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/download%201_zpsfaos0oat.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/download%201_zpsfaos0oat.jpg.html)

:lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 02, 2016, 12:57:46 PM
He was bashing the latest two Steven Wilson albums as well.

Wait...so now he does have good taste?  I'm confused.  ???
:corn I know you don't like him, but it was just an example of some other prog rock that reviewer guy was bashing  :lol. I've only seen him liking one prog rock album, and that was "In the Court of the Crimson King".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 02, 2016, 01:17:00 PM
Can't help but think this album would be a little better with MP's drumming.  I miss all his different percussion sounds he'd make.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 02, 2016, 01:18:50 PM
And here's another reason why you have to listen to DT albums like this several times...

I'm on probably the the 10th listen through or so, and just now caught the forshadowing of "Our New World" as the intro to "A Savior In The Square"


Yup, I'm just starting my second listen to disc 2 which, when complete, will be twice through the entire album and I can already tell that this thing will be revealing little nuggets like this for months.


I have to say, this is what I have always wanted from Dream Theater ever since....oh....Six Degrees.   That's the last album they've made that I could compare to this.   It reminds me at times of disc 2 of 6DOIT


Anyone else think the snare sounds vaguely remeniscent of the snare sound in I&W?  It's got a little more of a woody sound but it's also got that kind of long decay that you hear on the I&W triggers.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 02, 2016, 01:21:19 PM
Can't help but think this album would be a little better with MP's drumming.  I miss all his different percussion sounds he'd make.


As much as it bugs me to admit I agree with this, I do.  That's not to say I don't love what I'm hearing here from Mangini.  But....yeah....I'd love to hear Portnoy's take on this.  Wait, no, that doesn't sound right.  I don't want his opinion on this album.  I already know what that will be  :lol


I mean, I'd love to hear him play what he'd like to play on an album like this. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 02, 2016, 01:22:50 PM
Sorry for noob question, but is it true, there's no stem or isolated track from The Astonishing? Really?? They have 34 song, and cant give us stem track just for one song??  :facepalm:
I really wanna hear orchestra stem from Dystopian Overture, that would be very great you know, especially the choir from BCYHM theme  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on February 02, 2016, 01:22:59 PM
This album has a bitter/sweet feel for me. I Love it the whole way through and gets better with each listen.  My wife (who's name is Victoria) passed away last summer, she loved DT's softer side and was a huge fan of James Labrie. Everytime I listen to TA, I know how much she would have been enjoying listening to this. Probably more so than any other album. Her fav song was Beneath The Surface.. This album is loaded with songs with feel and emotion and JLB shines! I personally dedicate this to her...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 02, 2016, 01:23:25 PM
I'm generally a fan of this guy, but he just doesn't get prog rock/metal it seems... He's almost always bashing prog when he reviews it, but to call The Astonishing "All proficiency, no soul" is just wrong.
https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=3m3s (https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=3m3s)

He's full of shit, he says he's hoping the album would put the final nail into rock opera's coffin, what fan of music would wish something like that on fellow fans? I fuckin hate rap but I don't wish it to die since I know that brings it's fans joy!
Except dance music that's made for the sole purpose of dancing in big parties/raves, these fuckers deserve joy to be taken away from them. /hypocrisy in the afternoon


wurd
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on February 02, 2016, 02:04:34 PM
Is Rich Chycki the voice of Arhys as well? The credits say he does Nafaryus, but we only hear him cry.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 02, 2016, 02:05:32 PM
Who does the " Troops fall in " etc etc at the beginning of The Answer ??
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on February 02, 2016, 02:08:35 PM
This album has a bitter/sweet feel for me. I Love it the whole way through and gets better with each listen.  My wife (who's name is Victoria) passed away last summer, she loved DT's softer side and was a huge fan of James Labrie. Everytime I listen to TA, I know how much she would have been enjoying listening to this. Probably more so than any other album. Her fav song was Beneath The Surface.. This album is loaded with songs with feel and emotion and JLB shines! I personally dedicate this to her...

That must be very tough.  I had a girlfriend dump me named Vicki which for a while made it tough to listen to SFAM.   I can only imagine how tough it must be to lose your wife.  I am sorry for your loss and hopefully she is listening to The Astonishing somewhere above.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on February 02, 2016, 02:12:29 PM
Who does the " Troops fall in " etc etc at the beginning of The Answer ??
Do you mean A Better Life? Because that's what I'm talking about as well
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on February 02, 2016, 02:12:54 PM
Thanks lovethedrake,  I appreciate that..  I'm on the same page, I can't even listen to SFAM right now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on February 02, 2016, 02:15:09 PM
This album has a bitter/sweet feel for me. I Love it the whole way through and gets better with each listen.  My wife (who's name is Victoria) passed away last summer, she loved DT's softer side and was a huge fan of James Labrie. Everytime I listen to TA, I know how much she would have been enjoying listening to this. Probably more so than any other album. Her fav song was Beneath The Surface.. This album is loaded with songs with feel and emotion and JLB shines! I personally dedicate this to her...

Really sorry to hear about this. I hope that TA would make her proud! Amazing how DT finds a way to make such a personal connection with people.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YtseJamittaja on February 02, 2016, 02:17:01 PM
Faythe - Act of Faythe themes
Gabriel -  The Answer Themes and it's variations
Arhys - Brother Can You Hear Me? / A better life themes
Nefaryus - Anything dark, evil and edgy (with a Disney villain feel)  ;D 

Xander, Evangeline and The Empress don't really seem to have a reoccurring theme of their own.

Nearest I can tell anyways. You can hear the different themes revisited on the final track 34 Astonishing.
And Daryus, I would say, is the main theme of A Tempting Offer and its variations near the end of The Path That Divides.

Thanks dudes!  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 02, 2016, 02:17:31 PM
And here's another reason why you have to listen to DT albums like this several times...

I'm on probably the the 10th listen through or so, and just now caught the forshadowing of "Our New World" as the intro to "A Savior In The Square"
When I first realized this, I literally yelled "YES!"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 02, 2016, 02:19:30 PM
Anyway, to sum up about all those big discussions on the title of the album:

- Gabriel is The Astonishing, for his gift of music.
- The Astonishing event is Gabriel singing Faythe back to life.
- The title track doesn't have "The" in front 'cause Astonishing is used as an adjective to describe the lives of the characters from then on.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YtseJamittaja on February 02, 2016, 02:22:54 PM
This album has a bitter/sweet feel for me. I Love it the whole way through and gets better with each listen.  My wife (who's name is Victoria) passed away last summer, she loved DT's softer side and was a huge fan of James Labrie. Everytime I listen to TA, I know how much she would have been enjoying listening to this. Probably more so than any other album. Her fav song was Beneath The Surface.. This album is loaded with songs with feel and emotion and JLB shines! I personally dedicate this to her...

So sorry to hear that. I hope you can still enjoy the music and hopefully it brings you just good memories. Remember, The spirit carries on. We are here with you.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mike PornToy on February 02, 2016, 02:26:26 PM
I
Can't
Stop
Listening
To
This
Album


I'm getting closer and closer to calling this something that starts with M.

The best DT for all public, less metal, more prog rock !
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 02, 2016, 03:00:00 PM
This album has a bitter/sweet feel for me. I Love it the whole way through and gets better with each listen.  My wife (who's name is Victoria) passed away last summer, she loved DT's softer side and was a huge fan of James Labrie. Everytime I listen to TA, I know how much she would have been enjoying listening to this. Probably more so than any other album. Her fav song was Beneath The Surface.. This album is loaded with songs with feel and emotion and JLB shines! I personally dedicate this to her...
Sorry to hear that. Be brave my brother  :'(
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 02, 2016, 03:06:10 PM
I just re upload it here https://vimeo.com/153834854  :lol
Pringka this is better than anything we officially got so far, certinly better than the trailer they gave us, great work dude  :tup
Thankyou man  ;D
But I still hope second video from astonishing website page is a great animation video, I always hope it will be Dystopian Overture Video Clip  ;D

You will find out what it is soon...

Do you know something we don't Bosky?

Of course.  That should be clear.  I know exactly what the video is, and I know it is scheduled to be posted very soon.  On the original schedule, it was supposed to have already been released.  But, again, marketing schedules are typically fluid and subject to change, and things have been moved around a bit for various reasons.  The other video is going to be pretty cool.  Nothing earth-shattering.  But I am confident most people will really enjoy it.

woaah, I cant wait it anymore. Hope it will be great & cool video !!  :tup

but, what about NOMACS eyes? is that eyes was supposed to like that? or something is gonna happen in upcoming update??  :huh: :huh: :huh:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 02, 2016, 03:07:39 PM
This album has a bitter/sweet feel for me. I Love it the whole way through and gets better with each listen.  My wife (who's name is Victoria) passed away last summer, she loved DT's softer side and was a huge fan of James Labrie. Everytime I listen to TA, I know how much she would have been enjoying listening to this. Probably more so than any other album. Her fav song was Beneath The Surface.. This album is loaded with songs with feel and emotion and JLB shines! I personally dedicate this to her...

Wow man, sorry to hear that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 02, 2016, 03:14:23 PM
This album has a bitter/sweet feel for me. I Love it the whole way through and gets better with each listen.  My wife (who's name is Victoria) passed away last summer, she loved DT's softer side and was a huge fan of James Labrie. Everytime I listen to TA, I know how much she would have been enjoying listening to this. Probably more so than any other album. Her fav song was Beneath The Surface.. This album is loaded with songs with feel and emotion and JLB shines! I personally dedicate this to her...
Aw man, that's such a touching sentiment. My heart breaks for ya. "Beneath the Surface"... she had impeccable taste. I hope an album about the connective power of music can bring you some comfort. :) 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on February 02, 2016, 03:39:34 PM
This album has a bitter/sweet feel for me. I Love it the whole way through and gets better with each listen.  My wife (who's name is Victoria) passed away last summer, she loved DT's softer side and was a huge fan of James Labrie. Everytime I listen to TA, I know how much she would have been enjoying listening to this. Probably more so than any other album. Her fav song was Beneath The Surface.. This album is loaded with songs with feel and emotion and JLB shines! I personally dedicate this to her...

I'm so glad you have these great memories of your love of your life and you shared it with us.  Thank you for sharing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on February 02, 2016, 03:54:26 PM
Wow, Thanks for the kind words everyone. I think this album will help in some way. The power of music!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on February 02, 2016, 04:09:35 PM
Wow, Thanks for the kind words everyone. I think this album will help in some way. The power of music!
Sorry for your loss
If you get a chance check out a symphonic tribute to DT.
Beneath the surface is one of the songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 02, 2016, 04:11:26 PM
I'm sorry for you loss man, I dedicate my next spin of The Astonishing to the memory of the late Mrs. Architeuthis!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 02, 2016, 05:26:20 PM
The Gift of Music Video premiere is tomorrow, according to DT facebook
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 02, 2016, 05:29:09 PM


I am seeing very little chatter about Dystopian Overture, probably them doing another overture isn't as chatter-worthy as much of what they did elsewhere on this record, but the middle section where the orchestra plays one of the main themes followed by the full band coming back in with the choir singing is freaking AWESOME. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

I know it is easy to get lost in all that has been posted, but I raved about it a week or so before release saying that, IMO, it could very well be the best overture they have done and is up there among the best pure instrumental songs. 


Ah. :lol

I am not sure I can say it is one of their best instrumentals, especially since it's hard to top Erotomania or Overture 1928, but it's another great one in their long line of them.  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theanalogkid7 on February 02, 2016, 06:06:19 PM
The Gift of Music Video premiere is tomorrow, according to DT facebook

Just saw this on Facebook.  Assuming this will be what fills that 2nd video slot on the /TheAstonishing page.

 :metal :metal :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 02, 2016, 06:09:00 PM
Just realized what an amazing one-two punch "Heaven's Cove" and "Begin Again" are. Late to the party as always...
Agreed. That last section of "Begin Again" rules. Jordan killing it, as it the usual on this album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 02, 2016, 06:11:22 PM
Just saw The Gift of Music official video post. Hell yeah, can't wait to see what it'll contain.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cream theater on February 02, 2016, 06:26:10 PM
A little disappointed, thought the video would have been a different single!  Oh well I'll take anything lol.

BTW listen to the NOMAC's track on a system with a sub, talk about impact! wow it's going to sound great at the concert.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 02, 2016, 06:42:59 PM
There is a user on the subreddit for Dream Theater that prefers WDADU to The Astonishing and is serious about it.

I honestly don't know how to react to that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 02, 2016, 06:45:38 PM
There is a user on the subreddit for Dream Theater that prefers WDADU to The Astonishing and is serious about it.

I honestly don't know how to react to that.
I've seen people say TA is their worst album. Not really sure how to react to that either.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 02, 2016, 06:47:02 PM
I understand everyone has their opinion, but WDADU has so many issues with it that makes it inferior to all other DT albums in every objective way.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 02, 2016, 07:03:32 PM
TA is a very polarizing album, I am not surprised that you would find a person who thinks that. I mean, RYM gives TA a 2.82 rating, the lowest of DT's discography. While one can certainly dismiss most of those votes as knee-jerk reactions by one-time listens, it still leaves quite a few people who really do not like this album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on February 02, 2016, 07:13:46 PM
While I don't like everything about the album, I think the high points are among DTs highest since 6 Degrees. I really enjoyed the more theatrical sections and really have give props to JR for shining so brightly on this album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RaasMah on February 02, 2016, 07:19:25 PM
This album is supposed to be filled with Seaboard. Did anyone managed to catch when its being used?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: millahh on February 02, 2016, 07:22:48 PM
TA is a very polarizing album, I am not surprised that you would find a person who thinks that. I mean, RYM gives TA a 2.82 rating, the lowest of DT's discography. While one can certainly dismiss most of those votes as knee-jerk reactions by one-time listens, it still leaves quite a few people who really do not like this album.

I think this will reverse the recent trend...I actually think time will be kind to TA as people accept it for what is is, rather than get pissed about what it isn't....the opposite of BC&SL and some other recent work, which was immediately well-received, but didn't hold up well beyond the first few months.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: johnnysuperfan on February 02, 2016, 07:25:30 PM
love the intro "A Life Left Behind" , kinda like a Dixie Dregs vibe

the entire concept is very enjoyable to listen to, another favorite is "Act Of Faythe" , guess i'm getting more mellow too

no complaints here, well done DT  ;D

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 02, 2016, 07:35:43 PM
A Better Life is currently my favorite, it's kinda sad to listen to though knowing what would become of Arhys and the revolution he dreamt about.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 02, 2016, 07:41:24 PM
TA is a very polarizing album, I am not surprised that you would find a person who thinks that. I mean, RYM gives TA a 2.82 rating, the lowest of DT's discography. While one can certainly dismiss most of those votes as knee-jerk reactions by one-time listens, it still leaves quite a few people who really do not like this album.

I think this will reverse the recent trend...I actually think time will be kind to TA as people accept it for what is is, rather than get pissed about what it isn't....the opposite of BC&SL and some other recent work, which was immediately well-received, but didn't hold up well beyond the first few months.

I think many people would only appreciate this when it gets staged as a theatrical production. Then they will understand why the music is written that way.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: millahh on February 02, 2016, 07:55:53 PM
TA is a very polarizing album, I am not surprised that you would find a person who thinks that. I mean, RYM gives TA a 2.82 rating, the lowest of DT's discography. While one can certainly dismiss most of those votes as knee-jerk reactions by one-time listens, it still leaves quite a few people who really do not like this album.

I think this will reverse the recent trend...I actually think time will be kind to TA as people accept it for what is is, rather than get pissed about what it isn't....the opposite of BC&SL and some other recent work, which was immediately well-received, but didn't hold up well beyond the first few months.

I think many people would only appreciate this when it gets staged as a theatrical production. Then they will understand why the music is written that way.

Could be.  I guess it makes sense to me as I was in a lot of pit orchestras in college, but certainly not everyone is coming in with that sensibility.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 02, 2016, 08:00:40 PM
This album is supposed to be filled with Seaboard. Did anyone managed to catch when its being used?
My guess would be the solos on A Tempting Offer and A New Beginning. If not both, at least one of those is, because JR made a video of that sort of sound and said he was recording seaboard lead for the new album. Neither of those tones are ones he has used before anywhere else.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 02, 2016, 08:14:05 PM
TA is a very polarizing album, I am not surprised that you would find a person who thinks that. I mean, RYM gives TA a 2.82 rating, the lowest of DT's discography. While one can certainly dismiss most of those votes as knee-jerk reactions by one-time listens, it still leaves quite a few people who really do not like this album.

I think this will reverse the recent trend...I actually think time will be kind to TA as people accept it for what is is, rather than get pissed about what it isn't....the opposite of BC&SL and some other recent work, which was immediately well-received, but didn't hold up well beyond the first few months.

I think many people would only appreciate this when it gets staged as a theatrical production. Then they will understand why the music is written that way.

Could be.  I guess it makes sense to me as I was in a lot of pit orchestras in college, but certainly not everyone is coming in with that sensibility.

The last couple of years, I have been watching two new rock musicals (in Filipino, though) every year. I guess it's what sensitized me to what the album was doing. I can understand the shorter songs. I once listened to a song in a musical that is almost ten minutes long and what a tiring experience it was.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheAtliator on February 02, 2016, 10:09:36 PM
There is a user on the subreddit for Dream Theater that prefers WDADU to The Astonishing and is serious about it.

I honestly don't know how to react to that.
I might agree with that...

I understand everyone has their opinion, but WDADU has so many issues with it that makes it inferior to all other DT albums in every objective way.

And I could probably argue for WDADU being compositionally superior to TA in an objective way. I'm not sure I'd want to get that detailed in this debate, because it would take a lot of writing, and I really do love the new album. However, I do believe that the certain characteristics I find better about WDADU could be defined objectively.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TempusVox on February 02, 2016, 10:10:44 PM
This album has a bitter/sweet feel for me. I Love it the whole way through and gets better with each listen.  My wife (who's name is Victoria) passed away last summer, she loved DT's softer side and was a huge fan of James Labrie. Everytime I listen to TA, I know how much she would have been enjoying listening to this. Probably more so than any other album. Her fav song was Beneath The Surface.. This album is loaded with songs with feel and emotion and JLB shines! I personally dedicate this to her...

So sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing. I truly believe music can comfort us. I hope you can continue to find comfort in this and many other things.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 02, 2016, 10:12:15 PM
And I could probably argue for WDADU being compositionally superior to TA in an objective way. I'm not sure I'd want to get that detailed in this debate, because it would take a lot of writing, and I really do love the new album. However, I do believe that the certain characteristics I find better about WDADU could be defined objectively.

You can't prove "compositional superiority" objectively. At some point, you're still assigning subjective criteria to it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 02, 2016, 10:21:57 PM
There is a user on the subreddit for Dream Theater that prefers WDADU to The Astonishing and is serious about it.

I honestly don't know how to react to that.
I might agree with that...

I understand everyone has their opinion, but WDADU has so many issues with it that makes it inferior to all other DT albums in every objective way.

And I could probably argue for WDADU being compositionally superior to TA in an objective way. I'm not sure I'd want to get that detailed in this debate, because it would take a lot of writing, and I really do love the new album. However, I do believe that the certain characteristics I find better about WDADU could be defined objectively.

How could you even compare the composition of both when WDADU was composed as a set of individual songs, while The Astonishing was composed as a whole. Any composition decisions for The Astonishing was made to serve what a particular point in the narrative needs. To even claim that you can compare these two different animals from a composition standpoint really stretches credibility.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ThatOneGuy2112 on February 02, 2016, 10:27:28 PM
I'm generally a fan of this guy, but he just doesn't get prog rock/metal it seems... He's almost always bashing prog when he reviews it, but to call The Astonishing "All proficiency, no soul" is just wrong.
https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=3m3s (https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=3m3s)

Anthony Fantano's opinion on this album doesn't surprise me at all, nor should it surprise anyone who's been following his reviews for any decent amount of time.

His comment about "all proficiency and no soul" is very questionable though. I'd consider calling the whole "proficiency" comment objectively incorrect, since this is perhaps the most stripped back we've seen DT in terms of composition and musical complexity. And "no soul" is something that's hard to argue against since it's not like it's something you can measure and comes to different folks in different strokes. It's what I'd call a hollow, safe criticism.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheAtliator on February 02, 2016, 10:30:29 PM
And I could probably argue for WDADU being compositionally superior to TA in an objective way. I'm not sure I'd want to get that detailed in this debate, because it would take a lot of writing, and I really do love the new album. However, I do believe that the certain characteristics I find better about WDADU could be defined objectively.

You can't prove "compositional superiority" objectively. At some point, you're still assigning subjective criteria to it.

If not compositional superiority, is there some other superiority that can be defined objectively? The post I was responding to suggests there is.

And "Compositional Superiority" sounds like a great class to take at the University of Prog Rock  :lol


How could you even compare the composition of both when WDADU was composed as a set of individual songs, while The Astonishing was composed as a whole. Any composition decisions for The Astonishing was made to serve what a particular point in the narrative needs. To even claim that you can compare these two different animals from a composition standpoint really stretches credibility.

Long story short, you could compare each album's success at accomplishing its respective artistic goals. And then which of the artistic goals accomplishes a stronger effect on a listener. It would be debatable, of course, but I think that would be the discussion.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 02, 2016, 10:39:37 PM
And I could probably argue for WDADU being compositionally superior to TA in an objective way. I'm not sure I'd want to get that detailed in this debate, because it would take a lot of writing, and I really do love the new album. However, I do believe that the certain characteristics I find better about WDADU could be defined objectively.

You can't prove "compositional superiority" objectively. At some point, you're still assigning subjective criteria to it.

If not compositional superiority, is there some other superiority that can be defined objectively? The post I was responding to suggests there is.

And "Compositional Superiority" sounds like a great class to take at the University of Prog Rock  :lol

As unapproachably bad as I think WDADU is, I don't believe there is any concept of objectively better or worse in music. I could give a long list of reasons I think a song/album is good or bad, but the qualities I value as defining it as good and bad it on are ultimately going to be subjective.

And :lol for the university of prog rock.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 02, 2016, 10:43:08 PM
The Outro to Begin Again reminds me of the Mother series, specifically Earthbound. I'd rather them have extended that last part instead of the ending to A New Beginning which I felt went on a tad too long.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 02, 2016, 10:53:10 PM
How could you even compare the composition of both when WDADU was composed as a set of individual songs, while The Astonishing was composed as a whole. Any composition decisions for The Astonishing was made to serve what a particular point in the narrative needs. To even claim that you can compare these two different animals from a composition standpoint really stretches credibility.

Long story short, you could compare each album's success at accomplishing its respective artistic goals. And then which of the artistic goals accomplishes a stronger effect on a listener. It would be debatable, of course, but I think that would be the discussion.

You can not because the units of analysis are different. in WDADU, the units of analysis are individual songs because each song was composed separately and individually. Any artistic goal and any effect on the listener would be evaluated on a per song basis. The Astonishing, on the other hand, was composed as a whole. Any evaluation should take the whole album as a unit of analysis because any composition choice made on the individual songs were made based on the function it would perform for the album at a specific point in the narrative.

Units of analysis. That's the lesson I will teach tomorrow in research design for the social sciences.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheAtliator on February 02, 2016, 11:05:54 PM
It is interesting to think about this outstanding new DT music in comparison to some of their other work...

When it comes to The Astonishing, I think the story is strong, but could be much stronger. And the way the music and lyrics puts across the story is very strong but could definitely be much stronger. There are instances where I think Dream Theater accomplishes perfection, and this is not one of them.

HOWEVER, I could not be happier that Dream Theater made this album that is SO different from anything they've done. I have heard so much perfect music from them, that I am not disappointed in any way to have this imperfect, but still phenomenal, and fittingly astonishing work, when it is something so fresh to hear from them. They never fail (and never have failed) to create and put out an album that is thoroughly inspired and striving for the best they can possibly create. So, in that sense, it is perfect and I couldn't be happier.

Plus, this is going to be such an entertaining live show :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 02, 2016, 11:06:32 PM
There is a user on the subreddit for Dream Theater that prefers WDADU to The Astonishing and is serious about it.

I honestly don't know how to react to that.
I might agree with that...

I understand everyone has their opinion, but WDADU has so many issues with it that makes it inferior to all other DT albums in every objective way.

And I could probably argue for WDADU being compositionally superior to TA in an objective way. I'm not sure I'd want to get that detailed in this debate, because it would take a lot of writing, and I really do love the new album. However, I do believe that the certain characteristics I find better about WDADU could be defined objectively.
I'm talking pure objective points like production. TA is miles ahead of WDADU in the production department and it's not even close.

Notice I don't mention anything about the music or composition, just objective points.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on February 02, 2016, 11:08:31 PM
Units of analysis. That's the lesson I will teach tomorrow in research design for the social sciences.  :lol

I was lecturing on the history of the field of communication the other day and used the word "nefarious" and nearly lost it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 02, 2016, 11:10:33 PM
That being said, I'm not sure how someone says that the composition and music on WDADU is better than TA. That's just ridiculous to me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on February 02, 2016, 11:18:25 PM
That being said, I'm not sure how someone says that the composition and music on WDADU is better than TA. That's just ridiculous to me.
Yeah, I'm sure even MP would disagree.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheAtliator on February 02, 2016, 11:29:11 PM
Well, how can you say that an album's level of production can be compared objectively while its composition can't? What if I thought that WDADU had better production because I don't like the sound of compression or something or other, but what's most important to me is that the bass has more of a punch? Could it just be subjective as to what perfect production means?

I don't actually think WDADU has better production than The Astonishing (in most ways, anyway...) but, if I'm not straying too far off topic, I think it's just as fair to discuss composition in terms of objectivity as it is to discuss production. I believe that even though The Astonishing has so much greatness to it that WDADU doesn't come close to touching, some parts of the new album are flawed in ways that many older Dream Theater works are not.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 02, 2016, 11:35:33 PM
^ Agreed entirely.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on February 02, 2016, 11:50:58 PM
I feel like the DT 'rut' was most apparent during BCSL. I'm probably of the minority who thinks that ADToE was a feeling of revitalization in the DT camp. Did they play it a bit safe? Maybe, but I felt the fun and enjoyment in the music they made. DT12 felt like an attempt to buckle down and make something cohesive (Illumination Theory not withstanding) that could come across as their most radio safe record as a whole. The Astonishing completely surpassed all expectations set by the current lineup IMO. Nothing safe, standard or ordinary about this album.

100% agree on all that.
Not a minority at all, ADToE is a DT at what they do best, every song was amazing in it's own way and it aged real well, I think it's the best post-6 Degrees album, not including The Astonishing cause it's still too early to say that IMO.

Fully agree with the above two posts  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on February 03, 2016, 12:10:09 AM
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/watch-dream-theater-shred-amid-flying-robots-in-the-gift-of-music-video-20160203

'The Gift of Music' Video !
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 03, 2016, 12:15:01 AM
Nice video!. :tup Always good to see band footage, and it was well shot and edited.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 03, 2016, 12:21:42 AM
Wow, that's a good video by DT standards.  :rollin

My two gripes are 1) they do not focus on Mangini during the parts I am most interested in, and 2) in the closing, the camera captured all members except Myung.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on February 03, 2016, 12:44:01 AM
Manginiiiiiiiii.. he goes crazy on this vid  :lol
Did JLB put mascara on his eyelashes?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 03, 2016, 12:49:06 AM
Funniest comment on the album I have read so far, posted on Mangini's FB page:

"Weakest álbum in Years..no drums, no guitars,, only Labrie groaning...shame..back to past.."

It's from a "music critic" from Brazil.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 03, 2016, 12:58:15 AM
My only gripe is it needed more story scenes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jsbru on February 03, 2016, 01:12:15 AM
Just finished listening to it the first time all the way through.  I picked up the album on Friday, but I was up in Iowa for the weekend canvassing for Bernie (a wholly separate revolution  :D), so I didn't get a chance to listen to it until tonight.

It's a lot to digest, so I don't even know if I should be posting after just one listen.  Overall, after the first listen, I'd put this at least in the middle of the pack as far as DT albums go, but I often find that DTs music grows on me with time, so this could move up.  I thought TGOM was mediocre when it came out, but by now, I think it's pretty awesome.  I agree with what someone else said--the highs of this album are some of the highest in a very long time--possibly ever.  I do think that some parts tend to drag on, though.  Like a lot of recent DT albums, the cutting room shears could be put to use a bit more, and a better product would result.  Some specifics:

The Good


The Less Than Good

There's really not a lot of negatives though.  It's the kind of incredibly dedicated work product one comes to expect out of DT.  They really outdid themselves with this one.  They deserve praise just for the amount of effort that went into this.  They explored a lot of new sounds, but only bits at a time.  The thing is, the parts of this album where they do go out there and take a risk seem to be kind of short, and I felt I wanted more of that (NOMAC tracks, and a couple of sections of songs that I can't remember now that sounded really fresh and unique, but quickly delved back into the stereotypical neo-classical/gothic/polyrhythmic/diminished/chromatic jams that are cool in the right places, but that DT has the tendency to overdo and put into almost every song).

I do think that I'll like this album more after repeated listens, though.  But I'd say that its floor is at least DT average, with decent upside.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 03, 2016, 01:18:30 AM
The ending of Begin Again.....
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 03, 2016, 01:24:25 AM
When Your Time Has Come has standalone potential.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on February 03, 2016, 01:33:16 AM
I'm generally a fan of this guy, but he just doesn't get prog rock/metal it seems... He's almost always bashing prog when he reviews it, but to call The Astonishing "All proficiency, no soul" is just wrong.
https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=3m3s (https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=3m3s)
I love this guy's channel and I check it every other day, even though I obviously don't always agree with him. But man, he really dropped the ball with the comment on The Astonishing.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheAtliator on February 03, 2016, 01:38:35 AM
This music video is AWESOME!!! Love it!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on February 03, 2016, 02:21:52 AM
The only thing about this album that is unfortunate, is the fact that out of the three albums that have been released since MM joined the band, this makes the second where he wasn't involved in the writing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 03, 2016, 02:32:08 AM
The ending of Begin Again.....

Yes! The double time section? A really cool twist, and very uplifting.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 03, 2016, 02:57:02 AM
The ending of Begin Again.....

One of my favorite Mangini moments. The stereo effect of the cymbals is amazing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 03, 2016, 03:24:29 AM
When Your Time Has Come has standalone potential.

Absolutely, the chorus alone could have prompted a more traditionallly-structured song into the olympus of DT ballads:

When you’re facing the path that divides
Know that I will be there by your side
Find your strength in the sound of my voice
And you’ll know which choice is right


Shivers.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 03, 2016, 04:03:15 AM
I remember reading somewhere that a mandolin was used somehwere in the album. Could someone point out where it's used?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 03, 2016, 04:11:17 AM
Just posting to say that while listening to the album at the moment, I just got goosebumps at the point where Arhys gets killed. Definitely another great moment where the music perfectly represents what's going on.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Stray Seed on February 03, 2016, 04:21:14 AM
I remember reading somewhere that a mandolin was used somehwere in the album. Could someone point out where it's used?
Hymn of a Thousand Voices maybe? 2:13-2:17. Sounds like a mandolin to me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 03, 2016, 04:21:26 AM
Just posting to say that while listening to the album at the moment, I just got goosebumps at the point where Arhys gets killed. Definitely another great moment where the music perfectly represents what's going on.

Yeah, first time I heard the album and I was reading the lyrics I was sad like I would see it happening in a movie, the moment describing his death is very dramatic.

Anyway, one weird thing I realized... this album is completely unlikely anything they've ever done, but in bits and pieces there are moments when you can say it's 100% Dream Theater... I guess a whole album of those "very classic DT" moments would have bored me. This album is polarizing and I know many people cry out for the lack of classic DT on this one, but a classic, formulaic DT album would have not sparked my interested the way The Astonishing is doing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 03, 2016, 04:44:35 AM
There is a user on the subreddit for Dream Theater that prefers WDADU to The Astonishing and is serious about it.

I honestly don't know how to react to that.
I've seen people say TA is their worst album. Not really sure how to react to that either.

Every time a band brings out a new album - someone somewhere will say it's the worst album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Rickharris1011 on February 03, 2016, 04:54:27 AM
I feel like the DT 'rut' was most apparent during BCSL. I'm probably of the minority who thinks that ADToE was a feeling of revitalization in the DT camp. Did they play it a bit safe? Maybe, but I felt the fun and enjoyment in the music they made. DT12 felt like an attempt to buckle down and make something cohesive (Illumination Theory not withstanding) that could come across as their most radio safe record as a whole. The Astonishing completely surpassed all expectations set by the current lineup IMO. Nothing safe, standard or ordinary about this album.

I don't think you're in the minority thinking AToE was a feeling of revitalization.  I think that's a fairly popular belief.  I would say greater than 50% think it an improvement over SC and BC&SL.  It got me back into DT. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 03, 2016, 05:00:16 AM
I feel like the DT 'rut' was most apparent during BCSL. I'm probably of the minority who thinks that ADToE was a feeling of revitalization in the DT camp. Did they play it a bit safe? Maybe, but I felt the fun and enjoyment in the music they made. DT12 felt like an attempt to buckle down and make something cohesive (Illumination Theory not withstanding) that could come across as their most radio safe record as a whole. The Astonishing completely surpassed all expectations set by the current lineup IMO. Nothing safe, standard or ordinary about this album.

I don't think you're in the minority thinking AToE was a feeling of revitalization.  I think that's a fairly popular belief.  I would say greater than 50% think it an improvement over SC and BC&SL.*  It got me back into DT. 

*on DTF. Outside of DTF, I find most people find little difference in quality between any of the RR era albums (excluding TA for being new).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on February 03, 2016, 05:03:45 AM
You guys realise, that at the concerts, we might see JM and MM walk off stage for a substantial amount of time? There's a lot of tracks with just keyboard/piano and guitar. Just wondering.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Rickharris1011 on February 03, 2016, 05:04:22 AM
Faythe - Act of Faythe themes
Gabriel -  The Answer Themes and it's variations
Arhys - Brother Can You Hear Me? / A better life themes
Nefaryus - Anything dark, evil and edgy (with a Disney villain feel)  ;D 

Xander, Evangeline and The Empress don't really seem to have a reoccurring theme of their own.

Nearest I can tell anyways. You can hear the different themes revisited on the final track 34 Astonishing.
And Daryus, I would say, is the main theme of A Tempting Offer and its variations near the end of The Path That Divides.

Thanks dudes!  :tup

Evangeline has a theme too.  It starts around 00:45 in the overture...sort of comes back in feel in "A better life" when Arhys sings about Evangeline (not exactly the same, but kind of).  It's also the main theme of  The X-Factor (I mean X aspect) 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 03, 2016, 05:30:30 AM
You guys realise, that at the concerts, we might see JM and MM walk off stage for a substantial amount of time? There's a lot of tracks with just keyboard/piano and guitar. Just wondering.

We survived all this time with James disappearing for what must amount to dozen of minutes by the end of a 3 hour show, I guess we'll deal with the absence of Myung and Mangini just fine  :D

But yeah, it will be weird to not have James the most absent member from the stage!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on February 03, 2016, 05:34:40 AM
I guess JM will walk to his sofa at the side of the stage and drink Starbucks during those times.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on February 03, 2016, 05:39:37 AM
I guess JM will walk to his sofa at the side of the stage and drink Starbucks during those times.

Mangini will join him and they will play a game of "Chess" during the show  ::)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peter Mc on February 03, 2016, 06:32:23 AM
Can't help but think this album would be a little better with MP's drumming.  I miss all his different percussion sounds he'd make.


As much as it bugs me to admit I agree with this, I do.  That's not to say I don't love what I'm hearing here from Mangini.  But....yeah....I'd love to hear Portnoy's take on this.  Wait, no, that doesn't sound right.  I don't want his opinion on this album.  I already know what that will be  :lol


I mean, I'd love to hear him play what he'd like to play on an album like this.

I agree that it would be interesting to hear MP's playing on this album but will say again that, if Portnoy was still in control of this band, we would not have this album for him to play on.  No way does he let JP/JR go off on their own and do this and no way would he abandon his attempts to gain metal credibility for DT by going in the totally opposite direction and making a musical theatre album.  I would not say that Mangini had no input into this either, I am assuming that he has written his own drum parts.

In a totally separate issue, I can't believe so many are writing off the title track as either being unnecessary or being a bit of a damp squib which does not end the thing in an epic way.  I think it is a totally epic ending (although not in their usual extended soloing kind of a way) and love the last song.  In particular (and I know this is weird!) I like the way James sings the word "change" in Fayth's part.  It's weird how little things sometimes stick with me like that, it's just different to what I was expecting when I heard him sing that line and I like it.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 03, 2016, 06:34:57 AM
I absolutely agree that the title track is amazing and a grandiose finale to the whole thing!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 03, 2016, 06:37:16 AM
I agree. The final verse is a very epic and grand ending to the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BelichickFan on February 03, 2016, 06:55:50 AM
I absolutely agree that the title track is amazing and a grandiose finale to the whole thing!
It is a great ending.  I wish they'd cut "again", though, so that "astonishing" was the last word.  And as ridiculous as this sounds for a 2 Hr. 10 Min. album, I wish the finale was a little longer.

Possibly my favorite album from my favorite band, though.  I guess time will tell but it's definitely in the very top group of DT albums for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on February 03, 2016, 06:57:02 AM
I like TGoM video! Cool stuff and definitely a good music video by DT standards.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on February 03, 2016, 07:02:43 AM
Can't help but think this album would be a little better with MP's drumming.  I miss all his different percussion sounds he'd make.


As much as it bugs me to admit I agree with this, I do.  That's not to say I don't love what I'm hearing here from Mangini.  But....yeah....I'd love to hear Portnoy's take on this.  Wait, no, that doesn't sound right.  I don't want his opinion on this album.  I already know what that will be  :lol


I mean, I'd love to hear him play what he'd like to play on an album like this.

I agree that it would be interesting to hear MP's playing on this album but will say again that, if Portnoy was still in control of this band, we would not have this album for him to play on.  No way does he let JP/JR go off on their own and do this and no way would he abandon his attempts to gain metal credibility for DT by going in the totally opposite direction and making a musical theatre album.  I would not say that Mangini had no input into this either, I am assuming that he has written his own drum parts.

This is a good point. You can't have Portnoy on drums without his creative influence, and I don't think he would have been on board with this record. That's pure speculation on my part, but it just doesn't seem like it would be his thing.

I personally enjoy Mangini's drumming, and think it steals the show in a few places, like the end of "Begin Again".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 03, 2016, 07:04:48 AM
I absolutely agree that the title track is amazing and a grandiose finale to the whole thing!
It is a great ending.  I wish they'd cut "again", though, so that "astonishing" was the last word.  And as ridiculous as this sounds for a 2 Hr. 10 Min. album, I wish the finale was a little longer.

Yeah, the main theme that explodes in "People can you hear us" should have been repeated twice. And I agree that Astonishing should have been the last word, but it's a kinda weird word to close up a phrase with... even though I guess that if the melody suits the wording, it can be used.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on February 03, 2016, 07:12:08 AM
I have no idea if the reviews seem overly negative because I have not read any but my concern is that IF the majority of fans
end not liking this it could be the end of JP taking the risk(s) that many of us have wished for years. He has always been a little
hesitant to veer from the core DT sound. Then again he seems pretty strong willed and they are on the back nine of their career
so he might feel comfortable doing whatever he wants until retirement. I love the risks they took and I hope he takes it even
further next time!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on February 03, 2016, 07:15:20 AM
They are at the point of their career that they do what they want and they are not swayed by fans or reviewers.  We don't have that much pull.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 03, 2016, 07:23:44 AM
I have no idea if the reviews seem overly negative because I have not read any but my concern is that IF the majority of fans
end not liking this it could be the end of JP taking the risk(s) that many of us have wished for years. He has always been a little
hesitant to veer from the core DT sound. Then again he seems pretty strong willed and they are on the back nine of their career
so he might feel comfortable doing whatever he wants until retirement. I love the risks they took and I hope he takes it even
further next time!

I have a feeling that the live show attendence will help JP decide if TA was a good idea rather than reviews.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 03, 2016, 07:26:26 AM
Exactly, was about to post that... the live shows will let DT know if they made "a mistake" or not, I hope they will be well received and that they will feel encouraged in doing whatever they want!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on February 03, 2016, 07:30:15 AM
Can't wait for the first show of the TA tour, to see how they manage to do it live, the visuals and such - it should be coming up soon right?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 03, 2016, 07:33:13 AM
They are at the point of their career that they do what they want and they are not swayed by fans or reviewers.  We don't have that much pull.
Well, that and I think they're aware that the core of their fanbase wants them to keep breaking new ground with their musical compositions and is going to enjoy it for what it is. The more I listen to it, the more I realize this is for those of us who embrace and follow them them for ALL their sounds and creativity... not what the industry or a loud, few and late coming, selective fans/reviewers wanted.

Not saying that every dedicated fan loves this album, but I think the difference between a dedicated fan that understands this band's career and legacy vs those that don't, is the vehemently negative reaction they've had to it. 

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 03, 2016, 07:39:18 AM
Can't wait for the first show of the TA tour, to see how they manage to do it live, the visuals and such - it should be coming up soon right?

Three days.

X 5 times  ;D

18th February is the start of the tour in London. I guess knowing already the setlist will shift the surprise to the stage set and the videos, so I will refrain from watching clips!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on February 03, 2016, 07:44:51 AM
I cant'imagine anything but a standing ovation at the end. And Act 1 alone must be an exhausting excercise, God!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 03, 2016, 07:48:15 AM
I cant'imagine anything but a standing ovation at the end. And Act 1 alone must be an exhausting excercise, God!

Well anything less than a standing ovation at the end would be a huge f you to the band, regardless of whether you like TA or not.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 03, 2016, 08:07:19 AM
Wow !! Like TGoM video !!!!  :metal
I can see there will be a great 3D animation visual they will use in upcoming concert, I love how camera walk throught heaven cove in TGoM video clip. But still no update from the astonishing page, that show TGoM video as second video there  :-\

I wonder, will mike mangini still use Dream Theater selftitled print in his kick drum head, or he will print another pic with The Astonishing theme for his kick drum head?
 :huh: :huh: :huh:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 03, 2016, 08:09:34 AM
Yea I wish the NOMAC tracks were longer also.  There are some cool rhythmic parts in them that I wish I had time to loop and make into a song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Art on February 03, 2016, 08:10:00 AM
I could see Portnoy playing on this record, after all, he is also a big Prog-Rock fan. But it would not be the same record, as i think he would have an active voice on the writing of the music and of the story.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on February 03, 2016, 08:24:59 AM
Can't help but think this album would be a little better with MP's drumming.  I miss all his different percussion sounds he'd make.


As much as it bugs me to admit I agree with this, I do.  That's not to say I don't love what I'm hearing here from Mangini.  But....yeah....I'd love to hear Portnoy's take on this.  Wait, no, that doesn't sound right.  I don't want his opinion on this album.  I already know what that will be  :lol


I mean, I'd love to hear him play what he'd like to play on an album like this.

I agree that it would be interesting to hear MP's playing on this album but will say again that, if Portnoy was still in control of this band, we would not have this album for him to play on.  No way does he let JP/JR go off on their own and do this and no way would he abandon his attempts to gain metal credibility for DT by going in the totally opposite direction and making a musical theatre album.  I would not say that Mangini had no input into this either, I am assuming that he has written his own drum parts.

In a totally separate issue, I can't believe so many are writing off the title track as either being unnecessary or being a bit of a damp squib which does not end the thing in an epic way.  I think it is a totally epic ending (although not in their usual extended soloing kind of a way) and love the last song.  In particular (and I know this is weird!) I like the way James sings the word "change" in Fayth's part.  It's weird how little things sometimes stick with me like that, it's just different to what I was expecting when I heard him sing that line and I like it.

James' version of the word "change" is one of my favorite parts of the album haha.  Comes out of nowhere and sounds great for whatever reason.   You are on point with this observation in my opinion.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: genome on February 03, 2016, 08:51:05 AM
Anyone else love the way James sings the word "rags" in Act of Faythe?

Raahhhygs
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RaasMah on February 03, 2016, 08:52:55 AM
Just got this: The dirty organ after JP solo in TGOM makes a reprise in the beginning of the instrumental of A New Beginning. Sounds like the same chords to me, am I correct in this?

The more I listen to this song (A New Beginning) the more I love it. The rhythm guitar, the vocals, and than that godly instrumental, not just the last solo mind you. Im even starting to accept the fade out, as it fades away right after the big climax in the solo (unlike say Take the Time)
Seriously, I think it may be one of the best songs in their catalog.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 03, 2016, 08:56:33 AM
I remember reading somewhere that a mandolin was used somehwere in the album. Could someone point out where it's used?
Hymn of a Thousand Voices maybe? 2:13-2:17. Sounds like a mandolin to me.
Yep, that's it.  It's mixed left (or right, if I have my headphones on backward). ;)  I think the fiddle and mandolin on that track are an absolute highlight of the album.

ETA: Oh, and I wasn't checking the timestamps -- there's way more than four seconds of mandolin!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jonny108 on February 03, 2016, 09:04:30 AM
I remember reading somewhere that a mandolin was used somehwere in the album. Could someone point out where it's used?
Hymn of a Thousand Voices maybe? 2:13-2:17. Sounds like a mandolin to me.

It starts at 56 seconds in and carries through the entire verse in the left channel, drops out for the chorus and comes back in at 1:40.   
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheGreatPretender on February 03, 2016, 09:05:21 AM
I have a feeling that the live show attendence will help JP decide if TA was a good idea rather than reviews.

Not necessarily. The other factor is the fact that it's being played in its entirety, and nothing else. I mean, I think with every album, there are people who don't like the album, but go see the show because they want to hear the songs they DO like, from the back catalog. In this case, people who don't like the album would avoid the concert because they know they won't be getting any of their classic favorites, but that doesn't say anything about the album itself. It could have the same ratio of likes and dislikes as their previous album. So there are some extra factors at play, and if the show gets a lower turnout that doesn't at all mean that the album itself was a bad idea. I'm guessing they're banking on the fact that given the nature of this show, and how it's supposed to be this epic rock opera, there will be some people who go see it out of curiosity who may not have ever been that interested in DT or something.

As for their direction in their future endeavors, it's pretty clear that JP is just doing what he feels passionate about and what feels right. I highly doubt he'll compromise that on the next album just to try and win over more people.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 03, 2016, 09:12:00 AM
Playing a full show with no old fan favorite is gutsy as fuck, that's incredible confidence in the new material.
I personally would like another TA-like album with everything they'll learn from the feedback of this, like balancing the narrative:music ratio.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 03, 2016, 09:15:28 AM
Frankly, after multiple listens, I can fairly say that some material on Act 1 brings me back to their heyday. So many fantastic moments there!

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 03, 2016, 09:20:44 AM
  • I really love the NOMAC tracks.  I know it's never going to happen, but I was disappointed in how short they were, and I would have really enjoyed it if they made an entire 4-5 minute song out of one or two of these.  They ended just as I was getting in the mood for them.

I totally agree, I wish Rudess went nuts on these for longer, I dunno how he thought the chance to make killer bass sounds or go to town on Bebot is only worth a few minutes while the continuum intro to Octavarium needed to be 7 hours.
One of the NOMAC tracks though, I think it was Digital Discord, made them sound like 80's movies robots, didn't like that as much.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlackInk on February 03, 2016, 09:21:40 AM
Just posting to say that while listening to the album at the moment, I just got goosebumps at the point where Arhys gets killed. Definitely another great moment where the music perfectly represents what's going on.

Yeah that's a really cool moment. I remember I said "whaaaat??" the first time I heard it, and we discussed it for a while.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on February 03, 2016, 09:23:27 AM
My sister just heard Digital Discord and it reminded her of small critters running around. I'll now be forever stuck with this image in my head whenever I hear it :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: vtgrad on February 03, 2016, 09:27:55 AM
Perhaps the NOMAC tracks will be extended a little live to give James a break... he's got a lot of work to do each night.  I could see Jordan having a little fun extending them a small amount.

I've been through the album 6-times now and it's grown on me with each listen.  First time through, I picked up large chunks that I liked a lot  and melodies that stayed with me; on subsequent listens however, I starting picking up the recurring themes and the story (haven't read the track-by-track explanations yet) jumped out at me more and more.  I'm proud of them for taking this risk, and for me anyway, it paid off!

I'm excited by the album, and I'm excited for the band!  I think the story is strong and I enjoy it; and, of course, the music is very strong.  Tasty stuff laid down by the whole band.  Can't wait for April and the opportunity to see it live!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on February 03, 2016, 09:30:41 AM
The more I listen to this song (A New Beginning) the more I love it. The rhythm guitar, the vocals, and than that godly instrumental, not just the last solo mind you. Im even starting to accept the fade out, as it fades away right after the big climax in the solo (unlike say Take the Time)
Seriously, I think it may be one of the best songs in their catalog.

Agreed. My favorite stand alone piece of TA! :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 03, 2016, 09:36:14 AM
Can't wait for the first show of the TA tour, to see how they manage to do it live, the visuals and such - it should be coming up soon right?
Just a little over two weeks. I think the first show is on the 18th.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on February 03, 2016, 10:25:55 AM
I wonder if the Nomac tracks will be the pre-recorded versions from the album as interludes between songs, or if Jordan will play them live from his key pads..  It would be cool to see the Nomacs extended versions for the show..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 03, 2016, 10:28:08 AM
Anyone else love the way James sings the word "rags" in Act of Faythe?

Raahhhygs

"the way you looked at her-uhhh-er" haha
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 03, 2016, 11:30:51 AM
I wonder if the Nomac tracks will be the pre-recorded versions from the album as interludes between songs, or if Jordan will play them live from his key pads..  It would be cool to see the Nomacs extended versions for the show..
I would be shocked if they weren't pre-recorded interludes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DT_12_Octavarium on February 03, 2016, 11:33:14 AM
I put this album on during lunch today. The entire cafeteria, save for a couple of people, hated it.  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheGreatPretender on February 03, 2016, 11:37:05 AM
I put this album on during lunch today. The entire cafeteria, save for a couple of people, hated it.  :metal

What do they usually listen to?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 03, 2016, 11:39:25 AM
I put this album on during lunch today. The entire cafeteria, save for a couple of people, hated it.  :metal

 :lol

 :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on February 03, 2016, 11:41:02 AM
I put this album on during lunch today. The entire cafeteria, save for a couple of people, hated it.  :metal

They prefer the earlier DT albums?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 03, 2016, 11:42:56 AM
I have no idea if the reviews seem overly negative because I have not read any but my concern is that IF the majority of fans
end not liking this it could be the end of JP taking the risk(s) that many of us have wished for years. He has always been a little
hesitant to veer from the core DT sound. Then again he seems pretty strong willed and they are on the back nine of their career
so he might feel comfortable doing whatever he wants until retirement. I love the risks they took and I hope he takes it even
further next time!


Agreed on all counts.


For a guy who's been leading a band like this for this many years to come out at this stage in his career with something like this takes huge balls.  And to put an album like this together is a massive undertaking.


I haven't really posted any reviews, per se, because how can you truly grok something this big in only a few listens?  You can't.    On my 4th listen now and I am beginning to recognize more and more of the themes that recur throughout.   There are some truly beautiful melodies in here and the piano is just incredible, imho.  Rudess is peerless.  And his stamp is all over this thing.


Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hanz Gruber on February 03, 2016, 11:55:20 AM
I keep reading about a disappointing scream.  What song is this on?  I listen to both CDs again and missed it.  Honestly I don;t pay attention to the story.  I just listen to the music.  I assume that it is near the end of CD 2 somewhere?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Voices on February 03, 2016, 11:59:59 AM
"My Last Farewell" I think.

edit: I don't think it's disappointing. I like it!  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on February 03, 2016, 12:00:53 PM
The scream is at the end of My Last Farewell.

Edit: Ninja'ed
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheGreatPretender on February 03, 2016, 12:01:50 PM
"My Last Farewell" I think.

edit: I don't think it's disappointing. I like it!  ;D

Me too! And the thing is, it's supposed to be this horrible, blood curdling scream that makes the guy lose his voice, but James is gonna have to do this on stage every day! Hell, even a single take in the studio isn't something he should be forced to do "legitimately". We sure as hell don't want James losing his voice!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hanz Gruber on February 03, 2016, 12:05:42 PM
Thanks everyone.  I actually like that part.  Didn't know it was supposed to be blood curdling though. 

I was thinking maybe it was the part where he was screaming "You murderer!" that people were referring to (which I also like)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 03, 2016, 12:18:26 PM
Something I realised just now on my 3rd full listen. Act of Faythe works exactly like an operatic aria. The action stops and we enter the thoughts of one of the characters (in this case Faythe). Until Three Days started, I'd briefly forgotten about the scenario and the action.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Evermind on February 03, 2016, 12:19:47 PM
Well, "you murderer!" and "your day will come" were actually more blood-curdling than Gabriel's scream on My Last Farewell. Then again, I was listening through my headphones so maybe I was protected and all that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 03, 2016, 12:20:33 PM
Well, "you murderer!" and "your day will come" were actually more blood-curling than Gabriel's scream on My Last Farewell. Then again, I was listening through my headphones so maybe I was protected and all that.

:lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on February 03, 2016, 12:21:13 PM
Yeah, you and Faythe :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on February 03, 2016, 12:21:34 PM
If they want to make a blood curdling scream live,  Jordan could perhaps use a patch on his rig to simulate one so James doesn't have to do it every night.   :o
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Another_Won on February 03, 2016, 12:25:30 PM
I put this album on during lunch today. The entire cafeteria, save for a couple of people, hated it.  :metal
I think this applies here:  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44345.0

I believe we've discussed how to properly introduce someone to DT.  These poor people will never be open to listening to DT again :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tomislav95 on February 03, 2016, 12:30:16 PM
I put this album on during lunch today. The entire cafeteria, save for a couple of people, hated it.  :metal
I think this applies here:  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44345.0

I believe we've discussed how to properly introduce someone to DT.  These poor people will never be open to listening to DT again :lol
NUGGETZ :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 03, 2016, 12:30:56 PM
Slightly tongue in cheek comment: Can we make a petition for DT to retire the word "forevermore"? Ever since MP started using it, I can't unhear it whenever they use it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on February 03, 2016, 12:37:58 PM
The reception for this album hasn't been much different than the reception from previous albums - in fact, the prog community seems to more easily accept this than the several last few. The reviews are mixed, as expected (there's never been a case of DT reviews being extremely positive outside of maybe Images and Words and to some degree Scenes From A Memory), and the fan community is split AS ALWAYS HAPPENS. Even SFAM had its fair share of vocal minority people blasting the album for being "too much circus".

If you look at the places where it actually matters (here and progarchives), you'll see that the score is more akin to it being an instant classic than to it being a bomb.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 03, 2016, 12:41:48 PM
I remember reading somewhere that a mandolin was used somehwere in the album. Could someone point out where it's used?
Hymn of a Thousand Voices maybe? 2:13-2:17. Sounds like a mandolin to me.

It starts at 56 seconds in and carries through the entire verse in the left channel, drops out for the chorus and comes back in at 1:40.

Thanks alot! I heard that sound in the left channel before, but i didn't know that was a mandolin. I wished it was louder, it's barely audible, the violin is very nice but i would like to really make out what the mandolin was playing as well. It just sounds like fast strumming  :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Another_Won on February 03, 2016, 12:41:59 PM
I put this album on during lunch today. The entire cafeteria, save for a couple of people, hated it.  :metal
I think this applies here:  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44345.0

I believe we've discussed how to properly introduce someone to DT.  These poor people will never be open to listening to DT again :lol
NUGGETZ :P
Yup. Nice catch! :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 03, 2016, 12:45:21 PM
The reception for this album hasn't been much different than the reception from previous albums - in fact, the prog community seems to more easily accept this than the several last few. The reviews are mixed, as expected (there's never been a case of DT reviews being extremely positive outside of maybe Images and Words and to some degree Scenes From A Memory), and the fan community is split AS ALWAYS HAPPENS. Even SFAM had its fair share of vocal minority people blasting the album for being "too much circus".

If you look at the places where it actually matters (here and progarchives), you'll see that the score is more akin to it being an instant classic than to it being a bomb.

This place is the absolute worst in the first weeks for judging the quality of a DT album. Even albums like DT12 that later settled on " middle of the road in their discography " were heralded like Jesus' second coming.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheGreatPretender on February 03, 2016, 12:47:29 PM
Slightly tongue in cheek comment: Can we make a petition for DT to retire the word "forevermore"? Ever since MP started using it, I can't unhear it whenever they use it.
Are you saying their lyrics should forevermore exclude that word?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 03, 2016, 12:48:52 PM
Well, "you murderer!" and "your day will come" were actually more blood-curling than Gabriel's scream on My Last Farewell. Then again, I was listening through my headphones so maybe I was protected and all that.

:lol

 :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 03, 2016, 12:48:56 PM
The reception for this album hasn't been much different than the reception from previous albums - in fact, the prog community seems to more easily accept this than the several last few. The reviews are mixed, as expected (there's never been a case of DT reviews being extremely positive outside of maybe Images and Words and to some degree Scenes From A Memory), and the fan community is split AS ALWAYS HAPPENS. Even SFAM had its fair share of vocal minority people blasting the album for being "too much circus".

If you look at the places where it actually matters (here and progarchives), you'll see that the score is more akin to it being an instant classic than to it being a bomb.

This place is the absolute worst in the first weeks for judging the quality of a DT album. Even albums like DT12 that later settled on " middle of the road in their discography " were heralded like Jesus' second coming.

I would say that's as expected. This is a forum dedicated to the band, and they are many of the members favourite band. It's exciting to get new music, and with a band like DT you know it's going to be quality music. The problem is the test of time. Most albums by most bands don't stand the test of time like their classics. And very few bands are able to be on their top as long as DT have been. And some very few have been able to almost disappear but come back with a bang, like Iron Maiden. (and now maybe DT, if one can say that they ever were "gone").
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 03, 2016, 12:49:03 PM
Slightly tongue in cheek comment: Can we make a petition for DT to retire the word "forevermore"? Ever since MP started using it, I can't unhear it whenever they use it.
Are you saying their lyrics should forevermore exclude that word?
Ow.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 03, 2016, 12:50:10 PM
Slightly tongue in cheek comment: Can we make a petition for DT to retire the word "forevermore"? Ever since MP started using it, I can't unhear it whenever they use it.
Are you saying their lyrics should forevermore exclude that word?

I'm looking t'wards the future when they don't use it anymore.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 03, 2016, 12:51:59 PM
I think they had to use that word.  You know, because ravens and stuff.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 03, 2016, 12:53:00 PM
And MP rapping at the chamber door.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 03, 2016, 12:59:03 PM
I agree that it would be interesting to hear MP's playing on this album but will say again that, if Portnoy was still in control of this band, we would not have this album for him to play on.  No way does he let JP/JR go off on their own and do this and no way would he abandon his attempts to gain metal credibility for DT by going in the totally opposite direction and making a musical theatre album.  I would not say that Mangini had no input into this either, I am assuming that he has written his own drum parts.

In a totally separate issue, I can't believe so many are writing off the title track as either being unnecessary or being a bit of a damp squib which does not end the thing in an epic way.  I think it is a totally epic ending (although not in their usual extended soloing kind of a way) and love the last song.  In particular (and I know this is weird!) I like the way James sings the word "change" in Fayth's part.  It's weird how little things sometimes stick with me like that, it's just different to what I was expecting when I heard him sing that line and I like it.


Totally agree. So I'm not the only one who noticed "change"! :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 03, 2016, 01:01:26 PM
Thanks alot! I heard that sound in the left channel before, but i didn't know that was a mandolin. I wished it was louder, it's barely audible, the violin is very nice but i would like to really make out what the mandolin was playing as well. It just sounds like fast strumming  :P
Well, most of what it's providing is texture, as mandolins are often utilized as much for percussive strumming as for the melodic notes.  It's doing a nice little triplet-feel jangle, and though it's tricky to make out the notes, I think the hard pan separates it out nicely in the mix. :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 03, 2016, 01:06:20 PM
Yeah i listened to it with my best headphones right now and i could make it out nicely. I'm not familiar with how mandolin usually sound, but i know i'll listen to that every time that song plays from now on :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikemangioy on February 03, 2016, 01:08:40 PM
Oh god the bagpipe moment in The X Aspect is absolutely thrilling... it really shows how Arhys comes to such a dark place after the offer...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hanz Gruber on February 03, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
I put this album on during lunch today. The entire cafeteria, save for a couple of people, hated it.  :metal
I think this applies here:  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44345.0

I believe we've discussed how to properly introduce someone to DT.  These poor people will never be open to listening to DT again :lol
NUGGETZ :P

Yep...a 2 hour rock opera is always the worst way to start when introducing Dream Theater to new people
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 03, 2016, 01:30:12 PM
I have to say i'm very happy about getting a lot of brass sections with TA. I have alsways liked brass sections in music very much, and we get a lot of them here :tup It adds a nice flavor that isn't present in most rock music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheGreatPretender on February 03, 2016, 01:35:49 PM
I have to say i'm very happy about getting a lot of brass sections with TA. I have alsways liked brass sections in music very much, and we get a lot of them here :tup It adds a nice flavor that isn't present in most rock music.

Actually, listening to this album, with such a balanced mix of rock and symphonic instruments, makes me wish more films added rock instruments to their scores. Lord of the Rings battles would've been so much more intense with some drums and distorted guitars.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 03, 2016, 01:37:20 PM
I love rock music, but i wouldn't go that far :lol LOTR score is very close to perfect as it is!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 03, 2016, 01:37:43 PM
And MP fapping at the chamber door.
*shudders*
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheGreatPretender on February 03, 2016, 01:39:46 PM
I love rock music, but i wouldn't go that far :lol LOTR score is very close to perfect as it is!

Well, okay then, I'm not familiar enough with LOTR scores specifically, it was just an example. But in general, I don't think film scores need to restrain themselves to only using classical instruments, even when they're taking place in medieval or medieval-like fantasy settings.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 03, 2016, 01:41:56 PM
I love rock music, but i wouldn't go that far :lol LOTR score is very close to perfect as it is!

Well, okay then, I'm not familiar enough with LOTR scores specifically, it was just an example. But in general, I don't think film scores need to restrain themselves to only using classical instruments, even when they're taking place in medieval or medieval-like fantasy settings.

Yeah i think a lot of them would benefit from some rock/metal.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 03, 2016, 01:47:41 PM
And MP fapping at the chamber door.
*shudders*



































k
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 03, 2016, 02:04:25 PM
I do wonder, but obviously we will never know, how aware MP is of DT's stuff. I mean, if I can judge him somewhat reasonably, he would die to be involved in a project like TA.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 03, 2016, 02:06:50 PM
Isn't every Translatlantic album a 2 hour double concept album anyway ? :lol

TA / TA :neverusethis:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 03, 2016, 02:07:33 PM
FUGGETZ!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikemangioy on February 03, 2016, 02:17:27 PM
Okay this album suddenly started to click. The first half of Act 2 is basically flawless.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on February 03, 2016, 02:26:14 PM
Oh god the bagpipe moment in The X Aspect is absolutely thrilling... it really shows how Arhys comes to such a dark place after the offer...
Yep, I adore this reprise.  :heart In fact, that entire track is glorious, from the piano intro to the verses themselves, especially the one that begins with "Evangeline, I swore to you..."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on February 03, 2016, 02:28:16 PM
I put this album on during lunch today. The entire cafeteria, save for a couple of people, hated it.  :metal

I immediately thought of a commercial on TV in an office lunchroom featuring the band performing the song 'the final countdown'

I probably would get sent home.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peter Mc on February 03, 2016, 02:34:22 PM
Yeah, I struggled a bit with Act 2 at first, probably just because I'd already got through 80 min worth of music but I now love it, it may even be slightly shading it for me.

Also love that a couple of other people are loving "change" in the line 'Now I can be a voice for change' in the title track. Thought I was the only weirdo who was into that. I think it's just something totally unexpected as that melody had been used so many times already but that one word was sung differently to any other point on the album. It's actually one of my favourite things on the whole album as crazy as that is. Simple things that please simple minds, I suppose.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 03, 2016, 02:35:13 PM
I mean, if I can judge him somewhat reasonably, he would die to be involved in a project like TA.
Yes, but I would imagine that "be involved" for him would not mean allowing JP to come up with the entire story himself and letting JP & JR write all of the music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 03, 2016, 02:41:53 PM
Just extracted some songs from the CD to wav, it's not brickwalled but still heavily clipped.   :-\
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 03, 2016, 02:42:11 PM
That is true indeed. It's hard to predict what his influence would have been, but IMO a second pair of eyes on the plot could have been beneficial.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on February 03, 2016, 02:49:14 PM
Just extracted some songs from the CD to wav, it's not brickwalled but still heavily clipped.   :-\

Wouldn't extracting to FLAC or ALAC be even better? Why settle for wav? I'm not exactly an audiophile so I'm not criticizing you, I'm just curious.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 03, 2016, 02:56:05 PM
Just extracted some songs from the CD to wav, it's not brickwalled but still heavily clipped.   :-\

Wouldn't extracting to FLAC or ALAC be even better? Why settle for wav? I'm not exactly an audiophile so I'm not criticizing you, I'm just curious.

Wav is the "best" format there is. It's all the information ripped directly from the CD. There is some debate whether or not Wav is better than other lossless formats, as lossless means absolutely no loss of information. FLAC is compressed, yet lossless. It uses the predictablility of waves to get rid of some unnescesary information. So FLAC and Wav should sound exactley the same, but i have heard some people claim that Wav is better (FLAC coverted back to Wav would be just as good as well).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 03, 2016, 03:03:12 PM
People claiming that FLAC is better than WAV drives home the point for me that most of this stuff is confirmation bias.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 03, 2016, 03:06:17 PM
People claiming that FLAC is better than WAV drives home the point for me that most of this stuff is confirmation bias.

It's usually the other way around, as Wav contains more (useless) information than FLAC. I'd say that it doesn't matter what lossless format you use, but i would never go back to a lossy format as storage space isn't an issue anymore.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on February 03, 2016, 03:14:15 PM
The cool thing about lossless compression to uncompressed comparison is that it's REALLY easy to compare. And here's the thing. It's identical. The bits are 100% identical, after you uncompress the lossless one. Anyone stating otherwise do not know how lossless compression works and what the requirement for it to be called lossless is. The predictability of audio they're talking about is how you can encode certain stuff with a shorter string. It's kinda like we all know that when you type SFAM, you really mean "Metropolis Pt. 2: Scenes From A Memory", we've just used a term to "compress" it, because we save time and space to do so. Digital audio is similar - when there's a lot of repeating patterns in the digital bits, you can say "oh, this is pattern 001001011010100010010010101010110100101101001001010100010, and let's call that Y". Saved a lot of space there!

With regards to clipping:
(https://dtnorway.com/clipping.png)

I don't really see it when i open it in audacity and look at the waveform with clipping on.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 03, 2016, 03:14:19 PM
Even with lossy formats, the reality is that scientists sat down and figured out what people *do* hear, and what they don't. So, when people tell me they gear the difference between a 320kbps mp3 and a WAV, what they tell me is "I have supernatural hearing". That's why I am extremely sceptical.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on February 03, 2016, 03:19:05 PM
Oh yeah, I did my master's degree on digital music libraries - and I absolutely agree with that statement.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 03, 2016, 03:37:09 PM
Are you saying nobody can hear the difference between a 320 kbps MP3 and a CD ?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on February 03, 2016, 03:57:03 PM
Most organized listening tests I've seen on A/B'ing 320 vs lossless have averaged out to "statistically insignificant" results. It pretty much averages out to 50/50 in picking the right file - even with just one tester!

Is that to say some people can't hear the difference? No, some people probably has some super-sensitive hearing that can identify that something is "off" in the high range frequencies for instance, but for 95% of us it's all placebo. Expensive placebo, if you buy into the whole audiophile shenanigans ;)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on February 03, 2016, 04:04:38 PM
The moment I know I truly became the master of an album is the moment it touches me emotionally on a strong level. I shed a tear at 1:23 of the closing track, the verse where Arhys addresses his brother from the other side, such a touching part of the story. Now I know I can leave the album alone for a few days.  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 03, 2016, 04:07:41 PM
Wrong choice of words.  I didn't mean "clipped" as in 0dB, I should have said "squared off"? 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 03, 2016, 04:11:59 PM
Is there a mandolin playing at 2:20 in Dystopian Overture as well? Sounds like it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 03, 2016, 04:33:34 PM
Have I said this already ?

I think that The Astonishing is really special. Plus it sounds like it carries on where Octavarium leaves off.

It fits in after that album and would have carried on that run of amazing albums from Scenes - Octavarium.

I like to listen to music in the shower and i've been putting on The Astonishing and I want to listen to the whole thing. :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on February 03, 2016, 04:36:41 PM
That IS a long shower.... hope you don't pay for the water  ::)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 03, 2016, 04:40:32 PM
The moment I know I truly became the master of an album is the moment it touches me emotionally on a strong level. I shed a tear at 1:23 of the closing track, the verse where Arhys addresses his brother from the other side, such a touching part of the story. Now I know I can leave the album alone for a few days.  ;D

I did get emotionally invested in this album as well, it varies a which song it happens but "And Arhys’ fight for hope cost him his very life" gets me every time, such a powerful moment.
Also "Finally I can reveal, how music makes me feel" got me earlier today.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 03, 2016, 04:45:41 PM
That IS a long shower.... hope you don't pay for the water  ::)

Hehe. I only get through like 2 or 3 songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 03, 2016, 04:48:53 PM
The moment I know I truly became the master of an album is the moment it touches me emotionally on a strong level. I shed a tear at 1:23 of the closing track, the verse where Arhys addresses his brother from the other side, such a touching part of the story. Now I know I can leave the album alone for a few days.  ;D
Had this on A Better Life @ 3:44 on my first listen through.

"Evangeline..."

But it was "Our New World" that sank the whole album in for me finally.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 03, 2016, 04:50:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0cZAuV4gvQ

JR interview.

LTE Question :

" I don't know " {pulls a face} " it's tricky with the dynamics when Portnoy left. But who knows..."

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Herrick on February 03, 2016, 05:30:03 PM
I'm happy that a lot of people do like it. But I'm pretty disappointed. Hats off to anyone who can listen to this in one go, I simply couldn't do it. I found myself going, AGAIN?!? Every time they broke to a piano and vocals part just to chew up some story

This is the same reaction I'm having while listening to the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 03, 2016, 05:51:32 PM
Maybe all of you guys, sick & tired with this post of mine, but again...
Second video slot in The Astonishing page is still the same video with first slot
So the question is... Is TGoM Official Video not the second video for The Astonishing page?? Or they just have not update it yet??
Will we have another video from Dream Theater?






And NOMACS eyes, of course
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 03, 2016, 06:04:57 PM
Maybe all of you guys, sick & tired with this post of mine, but again...
Second video slot in The Astonishing page is still the same video with first slot
So the question is... Is TGoM Official Video not the second video for The Astonishing page?? Or they just have not update it yet??
Will we have another video from Dream Theater?
We will, eventually. After seeing Bosk's warning about posting unauthorized material in the TGOM music video thread, I'm sure we got something being released sometime in the future. :soon:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 03, 2016, 06:42:09 PM
Maybe all of you guys, sick & tired with this post of mine, but again...
Second video slot in The Astonishing page is still the same video with first slot
So the question is... Is TGoM Official Video not the second video for The Astonishing page?? Or they just have not update it yet??
Will we have another video from Dream Theater?
We will, eventually. After seeing Bosk's warning about posting unauthorized material in the TGOM music video thread, I'm sure we got something being released sometime in the future. :soon:
Yeah, I remember that. So..... That's mean, possibility about we will have another video for astonishing page, is higher then? Hahaha   :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jsbru on February 03, 2016, 07:58:26 PM
Just have to add, A Life Left Behind is fucking awesome.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jjfumbly on February 03, 2016, 08:17:01 PM
Is it just me or does "The Astonishing" look a little off centered on the album cover?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lumpy33 on February 03, 2016, 08:29:34 PM
as a huge fan since I&W, i am enjoying TA with everything new it has to offer.  all the tracks seem like perfect little snippets of Dream Theater gold.  i'll admit i'm left wanting a bit though, as killer riffs and beast mode moments seem to go as quick as they come.  after 12 albums, i didn't realize how "trained" DT had me as far as enjoying the development of a 10 minute song where the grooves and riffs last a while.

how about a 4 hour album with 34  8 to 10 minute tracks?!  :tup  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: LCArenas on February 03, 2016, 09:31:38 PM
Just passing by to appreciate The Walking Shadow. Short, yes, but incredibly powerful in every way. I think the whole track is complete genius, to be honest. The way they narrate the story and intertwine it with the music had me on the edge of my seat the first time I heard it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jsbru on February 03, 2016, 09:55:59 PM
Wow, overall what a great album!!

The writing is truly inspired, production is better, and the whole album just has so much heart and energy that's been lacking since at least Octavarium.

My only complaint is that some parts of the album feel bloated.
Certain songs sound like definite filler while other songs are rushed. I think if they had trimmed this album down by about a half hour and let the quality songs breathe a little, it could have been their best record since Awake. Overall it's really really good.

Agree with this; a fair deal of good parts are too short, and a fair deal of boring parts are too long.  It's the kind of stuff a good outside producer would fix, but they refuse to do that.  Overall, though, it's still a marvelous album.  Better production could have made it their best ever, I think.  And the "highs" of this album are among their best ever.

Just got done with a second listen, and it's already coming together for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 03, 2016, 10:13:21 PM
Just passing by to appreciate The Walking Shadow. Short, yes, but incredibly powerful in every way. I think the whole track is complete genius, to be honest. The way they narrate the story and intertwine it with the music had me on the edge of my seat the first time I heard it.

I get how it fits into the story, but musically that might be one of the most uninteresting songs they've ever done.  IMO, of course. ;)

Thank goodness most of the rest of the album is so darn good.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jsbru on February 03, 2016, 10:33:35 PM
Our New World:  Reminds me of prime Saigon Kick (a good thing)

Wow, now I really have to give Saigon Kick a try...heard of them a lot, never gave them a listen.

I have to take back what I said earlier, about there being no potential radio hits on this album.  After my second listen, I think even today this song is good enough to take off.

At this point, I think the combination of A New Beginning, Our New World, and A Life Left Behind are enough simply on their own to make this a memorable album...and there's a lot of good stuff otherwise.  But these three, in that order, are some of the best stuff this band has ever wrote.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YtseJamittaja on February 03, 2016, 10:51:42 PM
Wow, overall what a great album!!

My only complaint is that some parts of the album feel bloated.
Certain songs sound like definite filler while other songs are rushed. I think if they had trimmed this album down by about a half hour and let the quality songs breathe a little, it could have been their best record since Awake. Overall it's really really good.

Agree with this; a fair deal of good parts are too short, and a fair deal of boring parts are too long.  It's the kind of stuff a good outside producer would fix, but they refuse to do that.  Overall, though, it's still a marvelous album.  Better production could have made it their best ever, I think.  And the "highs" of this album are among their best ever.

Agree with these statements.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jsbru on February 04, 2016, 01:27:59 AM
One of the things I most appreciate about this album is the return to upbeat/major songwriting in the vein of Only A Matter Of Time, Under A Glass Moon or Innocence Faded. It's been missing from the DT sound for a while.

Absolutely correct.  Saw hints of this with DT12, with Looking Glass and Bigger Picture.  IMO, this was one of DT's huge strengths that set them apart from other metal bands (other than their insane musical talent, obviously).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 04, 2016, 01:56:20 AM
Just passing by to appreciate The Walking Shadow. Short, yes, but incredibly powerful in every way. I think the whole track is complete genius, to be honest. The way they narrate the story and intertwine it with the music had me on the edge of my seat the first time I heard it.

I get how it fits into the story, but musically that might be one of the most uninteresting songs they've ever done.  IMO, of course. ;)

Thank goodness most of the rest of the album is so darn good.

I find it interesting because this is one of the songs where the music was really integral in telling the story. When Mangini entered this metronomic "tic tic tic" in the hi-hat with the occassional off-beat, I really felt the tension. I especially loved the part where Daryus was about to stab Faythe, how the polyrhythms communicated the confusion and the quickening pace.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 04, 2016, 04:48:59 AM
Moment of Betrayal is great. Should be next single.

And then Our New World.

Moment of Betrayal verse = Count of The Great Tuscany Debate :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Chino on February 04, 2016, 06:56:32 AM
When Your Time Has Come is the best song on this album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on February 04, 2016, 07:00:35 AM
Wow, overall what a great album!!

The writing is truly inspired, production is better, and the whole album just has so much heart and energy that's been lacking since at least Octavarium.

My only complaint is that some parts of the album feel bloated.
Certain songs sound like definite filler while other songs are rushed. I think if they had trimmed this album down by about a half hour and let the quality songs breathe a little, it could have been their best record since Awake. Overall it's really really good.

Agree with this; a fair deal of good parts are too short, and a fair deal of boring parts are too long.  It's the kind of stuff a good outside producer would fix, but they refuse to do that.  Overall, though, it's still a marvelous album.  Better production could have made it their best ever, I think.  And the "highs" of this album are among their best ever.

Just got done with a second listen, and it's already coming together for me.

I was thinking along these lines on the first couple of spins, but now that I know the entire album and all of the nuances and themes, I'm liking the structure of pieces even more. Maybe extending "Astonishing" for one repeat verse would be nice, but no big deal. I love this whole album.  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on February 04, 2016, 07:01:04 AM
Moment of Betrayal verse = Count of The Great Tuscany Debate :biggrin:

So true  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 04, 2016, 07:24:27 AM
Does any of you know if the instrument at 2:20 in Dystopian Overture (left channel) is a mandolin?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 04, 2016, 07:25:18 AM
Does any of you know if the instrument at 2:20 in Dystopian Overture (left channel) is a mandolin?

I believe it's JR playing a harp patch.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 04, 2016, 07:26:31 AM
Does any of you know if the instrument at 2:20 in Dystopian Overture (left channel) is a mandolin?

I believe it's JR playing a harp patch.

Yeah that sounds right.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Chino on February 04, 2016, 07:29:18 AM
Does any of you know if the instrument at 2:20 in Dystopian Overture (left channel) is a mandolin?

I believe it's JR playing a harp patch.

Yeah that sounds right.

There's a hysterical video on Youtube of JP playing with a harp effect. It might have been an Adam02 video.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 04, 2016, 07:49:07 AM
Does any of you know if the instrument at 2:20 in Dystopian Overture (left channel) is a mandolin?

I definitely heard a mandolin in the left channel during a later song on the album, but the song escapes me right now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 04, 2016, 07:49:43 AM
Does any of you know if the instrument at 2:20 in Dystopian Overture (left channel) is a mandolin?

I definitely heard a mandolin in the left channel during a later song on the album, but the song escapes me right now.

Hymn of a Thousand Voices, in more than half the song
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: shadow1psc on February 04, 2016, 07:57:45 AM
I love that there's so many different "X is my favorite song!" posts/topics. It's the sign of a strong, diverse album. I don't feel like that was the case for the last, oh, 4-5 albums (especially on release). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

P.S. Ravenskill is best song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DragonAttack on February 04, 2016, 08:05:13 AM
as a huge fan since I&W, i am enjoying TA with everything new it has to offer.  all the tracks seem like perfect little snippets of Dream Theater gold.  i'll admit i'm left wanting a bit though, as killer riffs and beast mode moments seem to go as quick as they come.  after 12 albums, i didn't realize how "trained" DT had me as far as enjoying the development of a 10 minute song where the grooves and riffs last a while.

how about a 4 hour album with 34  8 to 10 minute tracks?!  :tup  :lol

Well, in succession, they released albums with six, seven, eight, seven (Enemies being one 'song'), and six.  With Mangini they did BTB nine song albums.  And then.....34.  Maybe they WILL match that with the next one. ;)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 04, 2016, 08:15:31 AM
I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but has anyone noticed in The Path That Divides @ about 1:33, James does a little, er, "mmmaaahh". It's at the end of the line "When you're facing the path that divides".
A cool little thing, and not something he normally does a lot of, I don't think.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 04, 2016, 08:16:01 AM
I love that there's so many different "X is my favorite song!" posts/topics. It's the sign of a strong, diverse album. I don't feel like that was the case for the last, oh, 4-5 albums (especially on release). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

P.S. Ravenskill is best song.
No, you're absolutely right, IMO. They've not taken a risk like this in years  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 04, 2016, 08:16:19 AM
I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but has anyone noticed in The Path That Divides @ about 1:33, James does a little, er, "mmmaaahh". It's at the end of the line "When you're facing the path that divides".
A cool little thing, and not something he normally does a lot of, I don't think.
YES.  Top 5 moment.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on February 04, 2016, 08:24:49 AM
I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but has anyone noticed in The Path That Divides @ about 1:33, James does a little, er, "mmmaaahh". It's at the end of the line "When you're facing the path that divides".
A cool little thing, and not something he normally does a lot of, I don't think.
YES.  Top 5 moment.

I noticed it also, it reminded me of Innocence Faded.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 04, 2016, 08:45:50 AM
I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but has anyone noticed in The Path That Divides @ about 1:33, James does a little, er, "mmmaaahh". It's at the end of the line "When you're facing the path that divides".
A cool little thing, and not something he normally does a lot of, I don't think.
YES.  Top 5 moment.

I noticed it also, it reminded me of Innocence Faded.

I thought it sounded a bit Muse-y, which is either a good thing or a bad thing, however you look at it. :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JediKnight1969 on February 04, 2016, 09:16:31 AM
I didn't read anyone complaining about the sound and production. I didn't listen to the CD yet. How does it sound?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 04, 2016, 09:37:01 AM
Maybe all of you guys, sick & tired with this post of mine, but again...
Second video slot in The Astonishing page is still the same video with first slot
So the question is... Is TGoM Official Video not the second video for The Astonishing page?? Or they just have not update it yet??
Will we have another video from Dream Theater?
We will, eventually. After seeing Bosk's warning about posting unauthorized material in the TGOM music video thread, I'm sure we got something being released sometime in the future. :soon:
Yeah, I remember that. So..... That's mean, possibility about we will have another video for astonishing page, is higher then? Hahaha   :biggrin:
We're definitely getting another video.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 04, 2016, 09:37:13 AM
I didn't read anyone complaining about the sound and production. I didn't listen to the CD yet. How does it sound?
Really good. Nice and open for me with lots of space. Through headphones it's amazing. Can feel every instrument.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JediKnight1969 on February 04, 2016, 09:50:38 AM
I didn't read anyone complaining about the sound and production. I didn't listen to the CD yet. How does it sound?
Really good. Nice and open for me with lots of space. Through headphones it's amazing. Can feel every instrument.

Thanx pal.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chrisgazpacho on February 04, 2016, 09:54:51 AM
Does any of you know if the instrument at 2:20 in Dystopian Overture (left channel) is a mandolin?

I definitely heard a mandolin in the left channel during a later song on the album, but the song escapes me right now.

John mentions mandolin in this video, so yes you're hearing correctly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qf2fzPUqlE

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 04, 2016, 10:19:24 AM
Maybe all of you guys, sick & tired with this post of mine, but again...
Second video slot in The Astonishing page is still the same video with first slot
So the question is... Is TGoM Official Video not the second video for The Astonishing page?? Or they just have not update it yet??
Will we have another video from Dream Theater?
We will, eventually. After seeing Bosk's warning about posting unauthorized material in the TGOM music video thread, I'm sure we got something being released sometime in the future. :soon:
Yeah, I remember that. So..... That's mean, possibility about we will have another video for astonishing page, is higher then? Hahaha   :biggrin:
We're definitely getting another video.
Hahaha. What do think? What kind video is that? I bet that is animation video  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 04, 2016, 10:20:31 AM
I am not aware of any other videos planned.  The TGOM video was the only other video I was aware of.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 04, 2016, 10:31:04 AM
I am not aware of any other videos planned.  The TGOM video was the only other video I was aware of.
If so, then maybe it's time for me to stop refreshing that page almost every hour.  :omg:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 04, 2016, 10:33:00 AM
as a huge fan since I&W, i am enjoying TA with everything new it has to offer.  all the tracks seem like perfect little snippets of Dream Theater gold.  i'll admit i'm left wanting a bit though, as killer riffs and beast mode moments seem to go as quick as they come.  after 12 albums, i didn't realize how "trained" DT had me as far as enjoying the development of a 10 minute song where the grooves and riffs last a while.

how about a 4 hour album with 34  8 to 10 minute tracks?!  :tup  :lol

Amen, brother!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 04, 2016, 10:38:24 AM
Just for the whiners - hey should put out a 2 hour 10 minute version of The Astonishing as one track.

::) There you go. It's a 130 minutes song. Long enough for ya ?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 04, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
One thing that should be noted and congratulated is the trust shown by JM, JLB, and MM in the production of this album.  They apparently trusted and believed in JP's vision enough to forego their normal roles as co-writers of music, and go with JP's passion and JR's co-writing.  That is as big a reason as any for the album coming out as cohesively as it does.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 04, 2016, 10:58:21 AM
An animated video for Our New World would be the shiznit.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 04, 2016, 11:07:57 AM
One thing that should be noted and congratulated is the trust shown by JM, JLB, and MM in the production of this album.  They apparently trusted and believed in JP's vision enough to forego their normal roles as co-writers of music, and go with JP's passion and JR's co-writing.  That is as big a reason as any for the album coming out as cohesively as it does.

Definitely the best production job on a Dream Theater album since Black Clouds. Probably Octavarium.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on February 04, 2016, 11:15:19 AM
Wow.  WOW!  This is the album I’ve been waiting for them to make for the last 15 years.  This is equivalent to DT in their heyday (SFAM / 6DOIT).  It may even exceed them based on the sheer ambition of this project. 

When I first heard I&W in ’92 just as grunge was becoming popular, it blew my mind.  DT got me through the 90s musically.  But for the last several albums, the magic has been gone for me.  Part of it is that as my taste has matured, DT’s sound has not.  I am no longer the headbanger I was in my 20s.  And JPs shredding has become so tiresome for me, heard it all before.  I had been hoping for a more mellow DT sound for a long time as the guys age, but had almost written them off.

So I was SHOCKED! when I first listened to the Astonishing.  It is so damn good.  I can’t stop listening.  I cannot remember a time when I’ve been so excited about new music.  I don’t hear any fillers here, I love the length, love the number and incredible variety of the tracks, and love that nothings over 6 minutes.  I love the piano and acoustic guitar and all the unique instruments they have added. 

I am not a JLB fan, but I think he does a good job here.  Still, I cannot help wonder how good this would be with a more modern sounding vocalist, someone like Casey McPherson.  Also, as has been discussed, JM where are you?  Disappointing since I would have thought an album like this might have allowed him to spread his wings.  And MM, I really don’t like his sound and robotic style.  It almost sounds like a drum machine.  The stuff Portnoy has been doing with Flying Colors and Neal Morse lately just sounds so much better to me.  But enough of that.

Major props to JP for parking his ego at the door on this one and really putting the music first.  And JR, what can one say?  He is the wizard.  I feel like DT is finally acting their age and realizing their potential.  I so hope this new sound is an indication of where they are going and not just a one-off.

Welcome back boys, DT IS BACK!!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wolven74 on February 04, 2016, 11:27:29 AM
Quote
and love that nothings over 6 minutes.

Ravenskill 6:01
A New Beginning 7:41
A Moment of Betrayal 6:14

What's that, you say?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Chino on February 04, 2016, 11:29:00 AM
I'm also a fan of the short songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 04, 2016, 12:20:20 PM
I am not aware of any other videos planned.  The TGOM video was the only other video I was aware of.
When I said we were definitely getting another video, my brain, for some reason, forgot about TGOM's music video.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on February 04, 2016, 12:30:50 PM
Anyone else cracking up at the "News" shown at the top of the page?  :lol

"Daryus unfortunately cannot listen to the new album.  Ironic..."

"After two concept albums, it should be clear that the members of Dream Theater may have "brother issues." "

"Faythe lives!"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on February 04, 2016, 12:31:57 PM
Yeah there are lots of great ones there.

"DreamTheaterForums is a place for people who just don't have the time for music anymore."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 04, 2016, 12:33:07 PM
Anyone else cracking up at the "News" shown at the top of the page?  :lol

"Daryus unfortunately cannot listen to the new album.  Ironic..."

"After two concept albums, it should be clear that the members of Dream Theater may have "brother issues." "

"Faythe lives!"

I wanted to post this sooner or later, they crack me up as well!  :rollin

Love the one that tells that Uncle Gabriel is a hippie and Xander should be put in a foster home  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 04, 2016, 12:39:46 PM
Anyone else cracking up at the "News" shown at the top of the page?  :lol

"Daryus unfortunately cannot listen to the new album.  Ironic..."

"After two concept albums, it should be clear that the members of Dream Theater may have "brother issues." "

"Faythe lives!"
It's about time that ticker was upgraded!  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 04, 2016, 12:47:29 PM
Anyone else cracking up at the "News" shown at the top of the page?  :lol

"Daryus unfortunately cannot listen to the new album.  Ironic..."

"After two concept albums, it should be clear that the members of Dream Theater may have "brother issues." "

"Faythe lives!"

I wanted to post this sooner or later, they crack me up as well!  :rollin

Love the one that tells that Uncle Gabriel is a hippie and Xander should be put in a foster home  :lol
I actually clicked on that link thinking it was real ._.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 04, 2016, 01:09:37 PM
I hadn't even looked at that until a few days ago when the forum was down for maintenance. The one about Xander is the best.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lumpy33 on February 04, 2016, 01:16:33 PM
Just for the whiners - hey should put out a 2 hour 10 minute version of The Astonishing as one track.

::) There you go. It's a 130 minutes song. Long enough for ya ?

the great riffs and grooves still wouldn't last long enough as they pop in and out throughout. 

is now a good time to mention that other than I&W, ToT is my favorite DT album?    ::)

kidding aside, i'm liking this album way more than i ever thought i would for something that's not so metal heavy.  a testament to how good the writing is.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 04, 2016, 01:47:45 PM
How can any of the songs on this album be considered "filler"?? They're all part of the overall story I think.  What would be considered filler in a rock opera? "Gabriel gets up the next morning....brushes his teeeeeeth-ah!"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: HippyDave on February 04, 2016, 01:56:53 PM
Typically, on first listen nothing really jumped out at me - it was just a tidal wave of ideas, as most DT albums are on first hearing. It didn't take long to start making sense, though. Which is a good job, as I was reviewing it for Echoes and Dust!

Review here: https://echoesanddust.com/2016/02/dream-theater-the-astonishing/ (https://echoesanddust.com/2016/02/dream-theater-the-astonishing/)

I think the final breakthrough was last night's end-to-end listen. Lights low, lyric book out, volume up... and front-to-back, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I think you either embrace the larger-than-life, Broadway musical-esque nature of it and enjoy it, or you spend so long worrying about what it *isn't* that your disappointment becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. That's not to say that the people who don't like it are wrong - as I say in my review, I can quite understand why this one is especially divisive, even among fans - but expectations can be a terrible thing.

Yeah, really enjoying it here :D.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on February 04, 2016, 01:59:27 PM
Smegolas,  I don't think there exists a better vocalist than James Labrie for this album. He nailed it!!
  I like what you said about Dream Theater getting you through the nineties musically, I totally agree! In fact, that subject is more than worthy of it's own thread..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on February 04, 2016, 02:00:07 PM
Does any of you know if the instrument at 2:20 in Dystopian Overture (left channel) is a mandolin?

I believe it's JR playing a harp patch.

Yeah that sounds right.

With an orchestra at your disposal, why not just use a real harp?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 04, 2016, 02:03:01 PM
I think you either embrace the larger-than-life, Broadway musical-esque nature of it and enjoy it, or you spend so long worrying about what it *isn't* that your disappointment becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. That's not to say that the people who don't like it are wrong - as I say in my review, I can quite understand why this one is especially divisive, even among fans - but expectations can be a terrible thing.

Yeah, I agree.  It's one thing to not like it.  But I think that to review it fairly or to form a fair opinion, you have to take it on its own terms and at least try to listen to it for what it is, rather than what you might like the band to have done.  Don't get me wrong--I don't get the point of trying to force myself to like something by listening over and over again if it didn't take after a first listen.  But by the same token, to really be understood and appreciated, this album requires that you take it in as a whole and pay attention to what is going on.  Failing to do that and then dismissing the album is, IMO, doing a disservice.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peter Mc on February 04, 2016, 02:06:23 PM
I just physically shuddered at the thought of Casey McPherson in DT. He is the sole reason I can't listen to Flying Colors and didn't buy their second album. Horrible singer, awful forced fake accent when he's singing just drains the songs of any emotion (ahem in my opinion). Sorry just had to get that off my chest, I'm sure many people like him, just not me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 04, 2016, 02:09:02 PM
I just physically shuddered at the thought of Casey McPherson in DT. He is the sole reason I can't listen to Flying Colors and didn't buy their second album. Horrible singer, awful forced fake accent when he's singing just drains the songs of any emotion (ahem in my opinion). Sorry just had to get that off my chest, I'm sure many people like him, just not me.

Amen, brother.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on February 04, 2016, 02:34:02 PM
I just have the CD version but as I watched this review, it seems that the cover shot next to him has more color to it than my CD. Am I correct or just having eye issues?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVLP9oaLkBU&list=LLOXjSHliW8THxMD9po4cVMQ
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 04, 2016, 02:40:36 PM
I just physically shuddered at the thought of Casey McPherson in DT. He is the sole reason I can't listen to Flying Colors and didn't buy their second album. Horrible singer, awful forced fake accent when he's singing just drains the songs of any emotion (ahem in my opinion). Sorry just had to get that off my chest, I'm sure many people like him, just not me.
Well, I don't understand this at all, since I love Casey and think he has a unique voice.

But he is certainly not right for DT.  We can agree on that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 04, 2016, 02:44:43 PM
I just want to say that the first 90 seconds of A Savior In The Square is amazing.

Also, looking at the map, with it basically being NY and southern NE, there is a town on the coast called Idlehaven, which if you look at a real map, there is a town in that spot called Fairhaven. I grew up in the next town over from Fairhaven.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on February 04, 2016, 02:48:58 PM
I just physically shuddered at the thought of Casey McPherson in DT. He is the sole reason I can't listen to Flying Colors and didn't buy their second album. Horrible singer, awful forced fake accent when he's singing just drains the songs of any emotion (ahem in my opinion). Sorry just had to get that off my chest, I'm sure many people like him, just not me.
Well, I don't understand this at all, since I love Casey and think he has a unique voice.

But he is certainly not right for DT.  We can agree on that.

Funny how we all have such different tastes, I think he's fantastic.  I agree that Casey wouldn't normally be a good fit for DT, but I was just referring to this particular album.  I think it would have been interesting.  And they could have brought in MP for the yelling stuff.   :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ArmoredSaint on February 04, 2016, 02:52:18 PM
I just have the CD version but as I watched this review, it seems that the cover shot next to him has more color to it than my CD. Am I correct or just having eye issues?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVLP9oaLkBU&list=LLOXjSHliW8THxMD9po4cVMQ

The guy is a total douchebag! LMAO Go to 4:45 mark. He says the guys in DT  have balls the size of walnuts and does a lame attempt to try and recover!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 04, 2016, 02:55:05 PM
I just have the CD version but as I watched this review, it seems that the cover shot next to him has more color to it than my CD. Am I correct or just having eye issues?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVLP9oaLkBU&list=LLOXjSHliW8THxMD9po4cVMQ

The guy is a total douchebag! LMAO Go to 4:45 mark. He says the guys in DT  have balls the size of walnuts and does a lame attempt to try and recover!

I have been subscribed to that channel since their very first video, and he's actually a very humble guy compared to most other reviewers. Allthough that comment was a bit weird  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 04, 2016, 03:01:00 PM
Review here: https://echoesanddust.com/2016/02/dream-theater-the-astonishing/ (https://echoesanddust.com/2016/02/dream-theater-the-astonishing/)
Good job on that review - very well written!  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 04, 2016, 03:21:28 PM
No knock against JP or Richard, but imagine if this album was produced by Steven f'n Wilson!!!  It just occurred to me while listening to his new EP today.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dtvoices94 on February 04, 2016, 03:26:23 PM
Long time lurker, first time poster...

     The Astonishing has pretty much dominated my music listening since last Friday.  The Gift of Music had me at first listen but Moment of Betrayal didn't really click at first. 
     To be honest, I woke up Friday morning and kind of skipped around on Spotify to give me a general idea of the album.  Once I got to work, I played the whole thing through once and liked it enough...no more or less than the last two.  I picked the physical copy of the cd up on my lunch and drove around listening to it.  I got back to the office and played it through again and again.  At this point, it was starting to sink in.
     The next time I listened, I followed the storyline and the musical themes began to connect.  At this point, I felt comfortable putting it in the top tier of DT releases.  If I were to pick a word to describe it, I'd say beautiful.  It really runs the gamut...on one hand it's melancholy, but on the other hand, it's uplifting.  It's bombastic and majestic yet it's also restrained.  My favorites by them (in no order) are I&W, Awake, SDOIT, FII, and Scenes with my favorite song being A Change of Seasons.  The Astonishing so far is right up there with my favorites.  Granted, it is early but I don't see it fading much.  I do know this much...it will never drop down with SC, BC&SL, or WDADU.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on February 04, 2016, 03:27:04 PM
Is the piano riff from The Answer and Hymn of a Thousand Voices the same one?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peter Mc on February 04, 2016, 03:56:08 PM
I just physically shuddered at the thought of Casey McPherson in DT. He is the sole reason I can't listen to Flying Colors and didn't buy their second album. Horrible singer, awful forced fake accent when he's singing just drains the songs of any emotion (ahem in my opinion). Sorry just had to get that off my chest, I'm sure many people like him, just not me.
Well, I don't understand this at all, since I love Casey and think he has a unique voice.

But he is certainly not right for DT.  We can agree on that.

It is quite distinctive but it sounds forced and put on to me. He doesn't speak in that accent so why fake an accent when singing. It just puts an emotional barrier up between me and the music. Most, if not all, singers that I like totally sound like themselves when they sing. When you hear Neal Morse or JLB sing, you can totally hear their speaking voice in there. The guy is obviously a successful artist though so this is just my personal preference.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: NunoTenniscourt on February 04, 2016, 04:30:24 PM
I just have the CD version but as I watched this review, it seems that the cover shot next to him has more color to it than my CD. Am I correct or just having eye issues?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVLP9oaLkBU&list=LLOXjSHliW8THxMD9po4cVMQ

The guy is a total douchebag! LMAO Go to 4:45 mark. He says the guys in DT  have balls the size of walnuts and does a lame attempt to try and recover!

Ok, I watched it, and I'm not sure how this makes the guy a "total douchebag".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 04, 2016, 04:59:57 PM
I think it will be interesting if someone can make a new thread and discuss G.N.E.A Map.
As you know, G.N.E.A Map is map of america 269 years from now, with different name from a lot place.
I admit I'm intrigued about that kind of thread  ;D
Unfortunately, I am far away from southeast Asia, and of course I have less knowledge about specific place in America. So hard enough for me to analysis real name of place from G.N.E.A map, but still, it will be interesting thread.
Well, there is a thread where people discuss about the map, but looks like the other not interested enough, so that thread is abandoned. I hope someone will start it  :tup
I wonder real name of every place in G.N.E.A Map  :tup  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: vazquez on February 04, 2016, 05:08:52 PM
No Astonishing here in Brazil yet, but I managed to keep on being interested in other things, which is amazing. But it´s hard.

Just read another review that made me even more hyped:

https://amnplify.com.au/cpt_reviews/dream-theater-the-astonishing-album-review/

My favorite part:

"I’m not sure whether the Dream Theater with Mike Portnoy calling the shots would have been bold enough to try something as grand as this, or even something so vulnerable from a stylistic standpoint. The whole vibe of the album just seems totally at odds with the direction the band were headed before they parted ways; the embarrassing faux-death growls which threatened to ruin A Nightmare to Remember are a distant memory.
Dream Theater took a creative risk with this album and the result is a truly great release. No two ways about it, The Astonishing is a spectacular piece of work."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 04, 2016, 05:12:59 PM
Dream Theater with Mike Portnoy calling the shots

People really need to check their facts before making stupid statements like this.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on February 04, 2016, 05:16:33 PM
They were so AC/DC when Portnoy was in the band.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jsbru on February 04, 2016, 05:33:49 PM
Yeah...after the third and fourth listens, this album is moving into epic territory.  It even has a chance to challenge the hallowed, previously thought (IMO, at least) untouchable grounds of I&W and Awake.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chrisbDTM on February 04, 2016, 05:45:12 PM
I like about 21 of the 34 tracks. Wjeni delete the remaining songs I enjoy listening
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 04, 2016, 05:59:13 PM
I'm wondering if we'll see some merchandise for GNE and Ravenskill.  I'm thinking shirts, hats, even sports jerseys.  Although the only sport I can see these two playing is quidditch! haha
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 04, 2016, 06:05:23 PM
Sports jerseys would be amazing.  I loved the Metropolis jersey.  Wish I had one.  The EFTS "jersey" was not nearly as cool, although the colors definitely were. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 04, 2016, 06:09:12 PM
Just passing by to appreciate The Walking Shadow. Short, yes, but incredibly powerful in every way. I think the whole track is complete genius, to be honest. The way they narrate the story and intertwine it with the music had me on the edge of my seat the first time I heard it.

I get how it fits into the story, but musically that might be one of the most uninteresting songs they've ever done.  IMO, of course. ;)

Thank goodness most of the rest of the album is so darn good.

I find it interesting because this is one of the songs where the music was really integral in telling the story. When Mangini entered this metronomic "tic tic tic" in the hi-hat with the occassional off-beat, I really felt the tension. I especially loved the part where Daryus was about to stab Faythe, how the polyrhythms communicated the confusion and the quickening pace.

Again, I get how it fits to tell the story, but I just find it to be uninteresting musically.  This album is ripe with memorable melodies, and I cannot recall a single one from that tune.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 04, 2016, 06:21:53 PM
Just passing by to appreciate The Walking Shadow. Short, yes, but incredibly powerful in every way. I think the whole track is complete genius, to be honest. The way they narrate the story and intertwine it with the music had me on the edge of my seat the first time I heard it.

I get how it fits into the story, but musically that might be one of the most uninteresting songs they've ever done.  IMO, of course. ;)

Thank goodness most of the rest of the album is so darn good.

I find it interesting because this is one of the songs where the music was really integral in telling the story. When Mangini entered this metronomic "tic tic tic" in the hi-hat with the occassional off-beat, I really felt the tension. I especially loved the part where Daryus was about to stab Faythe, how the polyrhythms communicated the confusion and the quickening pace.

Again, I get how it fits to tell the story, but I just find it to be uninteresting musically.  This album is ripe with memorable melodies, and I cannot recall a single one from that tune.

Really? Not even "What have you done?! My Father's dead!" :p

Although you are right, this song is not focused on melody. It's more of atmosphere. And catchy riffing.

I also love JR's "twisted" solo after JL sang "Like stepping right into a trap..."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 04, 2016, 06:24:25 PM
Well, I will admit that the middle of Act 2 is kind of a black hole for me (tracks 6-10 are all ones I am skipping already)...:P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 04, 2016, 06:31:39 PM
Weird question: Is Myung a bit louder in the right speaker? I've been trying to see if it's an earphone problem, if my hearing in the left ear is shot, or if it was intentional.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jvelvet3 on February 04, 2016, 06:43:40 PM
After a week with this album, I just wanted to chime in to say that I'm really enjoying it. Musically speaking, I'm a fan of all aspects of DT, from the heavy, to the soft, and everything in between, but I've been hoping for a bit less of their recent metal sound and more of the DT that gave us One Last Time, Finally Free, To Live Forever, The Way It Used To Be, SDOIT, LITS, Surrounded, etc. That may not be exactly what we got, but I'm loving the variety on this album, specifically the orchestra and choir, the piano, the acoustic guitar, and as others have pointed out, a generally more upbeat/positive tone.

I've been listening mostly to Act I because it's just so damn good, so I'm not as familiar with Act II yet. My favorite so far is Savior in the Square. I love both the music and the scene it sets: The beautiful guitar/orchestra/choir intro as a peaceful gathering of the townspeople takes place to hear Gabriel sing. The trumpets announce the arrival of Lord Nafaryus... it turns heavy and tense and I love the way James sings Nafaryus' parts. After some back and forth, Gabriel says he will sing for them. And as he's just about to....everything stops...just a piano...Gabriel spots the princess .... and schwing! it's love at first sight. I would love to see this (the whole damn story) played out in a move/musical/pop-up book/whatever.

Other favorites: Act of Faythe (that ending - I've found my wayyyyyyyyyyyy!), Brother Can You Hear Me?, A Life Left Behind, The Gift of Music, A Better Life, Lord Nafaryus.

I'm also pleasantly surprised at the story. It may not be the most original, but it's very well done, and held my interest while following along with the lyrics and descriptions on the website. I only wish those song descriptions were included in the booklet, I'm not sure I would have enjoyed (or been able to visualize) the story as much without them.

Anywhos, bye.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on February 04, 2016, 07:15:25 PM
I like the fact that the titles of the songs are false spoilers, which misguided me (and possibly other people) when we could only see the track names.

For example:
When Your Time Has Come - The time of nobody has come
Act Of Faythe - It's inside her head, not really an act of hers
A Life Left Behind - No one died
Moment Of Betrayal - Arhys decided to betray Gabriel, but he doesn't carry on with the plan
My Last Farewell - Not a death
Losing Faythe - She's not lost

Among others with smaller impact, like Three Days, which I thought was about the passage of three days, and The Answer, which could more properly be named "The Question"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 04, 2016, 07:46:06 PM
But I think that to review it fairly or to form a fair opinion, you have to take it on its own terms and at least try to listen to it for what it is, rather than what you might like the band to have done.
^^^^^Good advice for appreciating any creative work.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 04, 2016, 08:15:16 PM
Yea, I think we all have our own ideas on what we want/expect a DT album to sound like, and when it doesn't meet those expectations, we are let down.  This lived up to my expectations based on the early reviews.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jammindude on February 04, 2016, 08:26:16 PM
Anyone interested to hear Portnoy's thoughts on The Astonishing?? I think it'd be interesting....

I can honestly say, I have never been as curious about what MP is thinking about the new DT than I am with this album in particular. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 04, 2016, 08:29:58 PM
Anyone interested to hear Portnoy's thoughts on The Astonishing?? I think it'd be interesting....

I can honestly say, I have never been as curious about what MP is thinking about the new DT than I am with this album in particular.

I doubt he'll ever say, and really, what's the point?  It would be impossible for him to be objective about it, and anything negative will just create another shit storm, like when he made the comment about the alleged ADTOE/I&W similarities.  It's best to just keep quiet about it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jammindude on February 04, 2016, 08:34:33 PM
Oh I know he won't....but what I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall.   

The one question that I hope someone asks him on his next Twitter-fest.    "Hypothetical - at a future point, you're back in Dream Theater.  Are you open to the idea of playing some MM-era material?"

But now I'm off topic.   I just figured that...if he answered...it would give us an idea of songs he may have liked more than others.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 04, 2016, 08:37:16 PM
I think he'd have to be.  If that ever happened, fences would have been mended big time and concessions on his part will had to have been made, including the idea of playing songs from the albums he wasn't a part of.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 04, 2016, 11:27:12 PM
I like the fact that the titles of the songs are false spoilers, which misguided me (and possibly other people) when we could only see the track names.

For example:
When Your Time Has Come - The time of nobody has come
Act Of Faythe - It's inside her head, not really an act of hers
A Life Left Behind - No one died
Moment Of Betrayal - Arhys decided to betray Gabriel, but he doesn't carry on with the plan
My Last Farewell - Not a death
Losing Faythe - She's not lost

Among others with smaller impact, like Three Days, which I thought was about the passage of three days, and The Answer, which could more properly be named "The Question"
Wow man, never thought about that.. I realize some of that title is really 'false spoiler' now :omg: :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 05, 2016, 12:03:51 AM
Well, I will admit that the middle of Act 2 is kind of a black hole for me (tracks 6-10 are all ones I am skipping already)...:P
You're skipping the album's climax?!

And how can you expect songs to be "memorable" if you don't actually listen to them? :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on February 05, 2016, 12:05:43 AM
Isn't that beautiful?



Out of the shadows
One by one they came
To shed their light upon his moment
Of doubt and pain

A thousand voices
Ring out through the night
A symphony of mercy for their savior
Too tired to fight

And as the chorus grew
A thousand hearts beat true
Then like a glowing beacon in the dark
Hope came shining through
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: GasparXR on February 05, 2016, 12:23:01 AM
Isn't that beautiful?



Out of the shadows
One by one they came
To shed their light upon his moment
Of doubt and pain

A thousand voices
Ring out through the night
A symphony of mercy for their savior
Too tired to fight

And as the chorus grew
A thousand hearts beat true
Then like a glowing beacon in the dark
Hope came shining through


Oh yes, definitely! One of my favourites right now. Such a different song for DT, but I think most of the album falls into that category.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on February 05, 2016, 01:08:26 AM
Damn, Brother Can You Hear Me? is fucking awesome
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Stray Seed on February 05, 2016, 03:09:45 AM
I like the fact that the titles of the songs are false spoilers, which misguided me (and possibly other people) when we could only see the track names.

For example:
When Your Time Has Come - The time of nobody has come
Act Of Faythe - It's inside her head, not really an act of hers
A Life Left Behind - No one died
Moment Of Betrayal - Arhys decided to betray Gabriel, but he doesn't carry on with the plan
My Last Farewell - Not a death
Losing Faythe - She's not lost

Among others with smaller impact, like Three Days, which I thought was about the passage of three days, and The Answer, which could more properly be named "The Question"

One did actually die! ;D

Anyway, very good point!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 05, 2016, 03:20:01 AM
Sorry.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: genome on February 05, 2016, 03:35:19 AM
I've not really been following the story at all to be honest. I've just been listening to the music  :lol It's the same with SFAM, I don't think I know that much about the story (someone gets shot as far as I know) but it's my favourite DT album  :loser:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: IdoSC on February 05, 2016, 04:08:25 AM
I like the fact that the titles of the songs are false spoilers, which misguided me (and possibly other people) when we could only see the track names.

For example:
When Your Time Has Come - The time of nobody has come
Act Of Faythe - It's inside her head, not really an act of hers
A Life Left Behind - No one died
Moment Of Betrayal - Arhys decided to betray Gabriel, but he doesn't carry on with the plan
My Last Farewell - Not a death
Losing Faythe - She's not lost

Among others with smaller impact, like Three Days, which I thought was about the passage of three days, and The Answer, which could more properly be named "The Question"
I think you're being a little too literal about it.

When Your Time Has Come - it's a song Gabriel sings about when someone's time has come, it doesn't necessarily have to be NOW. It's not titled "Your Time Comes Now".

Act of Faythe - it can me a few different things. It's her act, as in her spot to be introduced if it was literally a musical. It's also a song about her "act", like "acting", living in a life and a place where she doesn't belong.

A Life Left Behind - "life" can also mean "way of life", it is used in many contexts. When you "leave your life behind" it normally means you're moving to a new place, forgetting everything you knew and start over. That's exactly what's happening here. It's not necessarily about leaving someone's literal life behind.

Moment of Betrayal - Well, you say there are no betrayals here as he doesn't carry the plan...there are actually two betrayals. This was the song where Arhys and Daryus were about to execute their plan for Arhys to betray Gabriel, then at the final chorus Arhys steps back and betrays Daryus by breaking his promise and going out to fight him.

My Last Farewell - This is a song where a person who has just realized two of his loved ones died says his last farewell. It does exactly what it claims to.

Losing Faythe - when you say you're "losing" a person it generally means that he's dying or deteriorating. If it was literally being lost, it wouldn't be in Present Progressive. It would just be "Faythe is Lost" or "Finding Faythe".

Three Days - the announcement that they only have 3 days to hand Gabriel over.

The Answer - there is no question. He just believes he doesn't have the answer to their suffering and problems, but that doesn't mean it's a question.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ErHaO on February 05, 2016, 04:15:34 AM
Loving this thing more each listen. That is usually a good sign for long term enjoyment.

Since I enjoy it this much, I decided to buy the CD (usually a vinyl guy but eh, yeah...). I like the packaging and art and even do not mind the booklet sticking to the casing or it being the more brittle kind of digipack. What does somewhat bother me, however, is that they didn't grab the oppertunity to feature all locations and more of the art in the booklet. On the smaller format, it all looks ace and I would've liked seeing all the locations in the booklet. (please note this is just a very minor "complaint").

Also, both of my parents think it is a great album. They both said "hey, this is kind of like Jesus Christ Superstar, it sounds bautiful/great!". I really think this is one of those albums that is accessible to a very different crowd than the DT-fanbase or rock/metal fanatics. Also, due to this, I decided to give Jesus Christ Superstar a spin for the first time (original concept and the first film) and oh my god that piece is astonishing. Not that TA is like a copy or anything (I think the whole thing feels quite fresh), but I can definitely hear similarities. And I also gave Tommy and Quadrophenia by the Who another spin, gotta love those late 60's/early 70's rock opera's ;D

I like the fact that the titles of the songs are false spoilers, which misguided me (and possibly other people) when we could only see the track names.

For example:
When Your Time Has Come - The time of nobody has come
Act Of Faythe - It's inside her head, not really an act of hers
A Life Left Behind - No one died
Moment Of Betrayal - Arhys decided to betray Gabriel, but he doesn't carry on with the plan
My Last Farewell - Not a death
Losing Faythe - She's not lost

Among others with smaller impact, like Three Days, which I thought was about the passage of three days, and The Answer, which could more properly be named "The Question"
I think you're being a little too literal about it.

When Your Time Has Come - it's a song Gabriel sings about when someone's time has come, it doesn't necessarily have to be NOW. It's not titled "Your Time Comes Now".

Act of Faythe - it can me a few different things. It's her act, as in her spot to be introduced if it was literally a musical. It's also a song about her "act", like "acting", living in a life and a place where she doesn't belong.

A Life Left Behind - "life" can also mean "way of life", it is used in many contexts. When you "leave your life behind" it normally means you're moving to a new place, forgetting everything you knew and start over. That's exactly what's happening here. It's not necessarily about leaving someone's literal life behind.

Moment of Betrayal - Well, you say there are no betrayals here as he doesn't carry the plan...there are actually two betrayals. This was the song where Arhys and Daryus were about to execute their plan for Arhys to betray Gabriel, then at the final chorus Arhys steps back and betrays Daryus by breaking his promise and going out to fight him.

My Last Farewell - This is a song where a person who has just realized two of his loved ones died says his last farewell. It does exactly what it claims to.

Losing Faythe - when you say you're "losing" a person it generally means that he's dying or deteriorating. If it was literally being lost, it wouldn't be in Present Progressive. It would just be "Faythe is Lost" or "Finding Faythe".

Three Days - the announcement that they only have 3 days to hand Gabriel over.

The Answer - there is no question. He just believes he doesn't have the answer to their suffering and problems, but that doesn't mean it's a question.

I agree. But I do think some song titles make a lot of people, including me, assume other things will happen. I like the song titles. They often are spot on in terms of lyrical content, but not always in the manner you expect them to. No weird or difficult words (which prog acts really love), but quite literal sounding titles that turn out to be less literal in some cases.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: the-glass-prison on February 05, 2016, 04:51:27 AM
I have only listened to it once so far. On 1st listen I have to say I am extremely disappointed with it. I know a lot of people say it takes a few listens to get into it. My thoughts so far is that I took no positives from it. Found it dull and boring, wanted to turn it off. I've never felt like that about any DT album before. I will listen to it again and hopefully my opinion changes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dream416 on February 05, 2016, 06:03:14 AM
Been listening to this since release day & absolutely love this album. Pre-ordered the LTD. Edition Boxset &
downloaded the FLAC files & (at least to me) sounds great. Finally received the
CD & NOMAC pin yesterday & was looking through the liner notes & have to agree what was said
earlier in the thread.......you can't read them  :face palm: white on a light blue background ? Really......
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YtseBitsySpider on February 05, 2016, 06:06:57 AM
There's a new album?

Who knew?

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on February 05, 2016, 06:11:16 AM
So I have listened to this for a whole week now. Am I the only one who has not been skipping ANY of the tracks? I love them all, either there's a melody, lyrics or just something about each track that makes me love it. If anything the only one I'm not 100% keen on is Our New World. I think that was hyped quite a bit and didn't quite hit me as it did other people.

Chosen has got single written all over it. It's amazing!

Also is the spoken word of Nafaryus that Richard Chycki is credited for in the booklet the part at the start of Losing Faythe where they are crying? Assuming is Nef and Arabelle.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 05, 2016, 06:13:30 AM
I wondered if he was the guy addressing the troops.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: kaos2900 on February 05, 2016, 06:32:18 AM
Starting Disc 2 tonight then I'll be able to finally try to rank this bad boy. It's going to be at least top 5 possibly top 3.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on February 05, 2016, 06:35:09 AM
Starting Disc 2 tonight then I'll be able to finally try to rank this bad boy. It's going to be at least top 5 possibly top 3.

I will not rank it...IMO it should be treated as an "Hors-Série".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on February 05, 2016, 06:37:36 AM
Am I the only one who thinks Richard Chycki was mistakenly credited for spoken part of Nafaryus, when it really should be Arhys?

You know, A Better Life intro?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on February 05, 2016, 06:37:56 AM
I wondered if he was the guy addressing the troops.

I thought this too.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: kartmaze2 on February 05, 2016, 06:53:49 AM
Haven't read this whole thread or any other threads for a similar topic, but I have a question about a part in Dystopian Overture:

I love the piano part at 1:13-1:45, awesomely accompanied by Mangini's rides. But what theme is it? Does it recur later on the album? I can't seem to recognize it anywhere else. Is it a theme just meant for this particular track or have I missed something?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikemangioy on February 05, 2016, 07:05:40 AM
That's straight from Heaven's Cove. The arpeggio is at least.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: kartmaze2 on February 05, 2016, 07:12:09 AM
That's straight from Heaven's Cove. The arpeggio is at least.

You're absolutely right! Thanks :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RuRoRul on February 05, 2016, 07:48:43 AM
I don't think I am the right one to do it, but I think it'd be a really cool and feasible idea to have a sort of definitive thread for connections between songs.

For example to start with, for Dystopian Overture it could list by timestamp all the parts identified as themes or sections that appear in later songs. Then for each song it could list any connections people find and (what other song it is connected with).

Obviously a gargantuan task for one person, but if there was a thread where people could just post any individual connections they notice, it might not be such a difficult task to eventually list people's contributions in the OP.

With 34 tracks to listen to, I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed parts familiar from other songs but couldn't quite recall which one it was from - and by the time you listen through the full 2 hour album again you might have forgotten what it was you were looking for.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jammindude on February 05, 2016, 07:57:10 AM
 Well, it took me a week but I finally made it through the entire album. I've been really busy and my life is a circus. I have to say that I'm really enjoying this so far. It's certainly the single most ambitious thing I've ever heard them do. Out of the gate, my favorite song is hymn of 1000 voices,  but we will see what sticks in the long run.

 This album is going to take a very long time to digest in its entirety.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SnakeEyes on February 05, 2016, 08:31:50 AM
I have only gotten through the first half of the first CD and I don't really care for it.  Of course the musicianship is amazing as always, but that's nothing new.  Good to see DT taking a different approach than the usual GUITAR SHRED KEYBOARD SHRED GUITAR/KEYBOARD UNISON SHRED that they've been doing on every album for the past fifteen years or so. 

I just think this is... boring.  I don't really care for the story, not connecting with it.  The melodies kind of don't really go anywhere.  I don't know, maybe I have to listen to it another five thousand times or something.  But, I honestly couldn't even get through the first CD I was so bored.  I literally turned it off.  Not that it's bad.  It's just... boring.  I'm sorry, not trying to be offensive, just giving my opinion. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on February 05, 2016, 08:36:26 AM
I wondered if he was the guy addressing the troops.

Noxon stated during the listenthrough that this is true.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on February 05, 2016, 08:43:30 AM
I have only gotten through the first half of the first CD and I don't really care for it.  Of course the musicianship is amazing as always, but that's nothing new.  Good to see DT taking a different approach than the usual GUITAR SHRED KEYBOARD SHRED GUITAR/KEYBOARD UNISON SHRED that they've been doing on every album for the past fifteen years or so. 

I just think this is... boring.  I don't really care for the story, not connecting with it.  The melodies kind of don't really go anywhere.  I don't know, maybe I have to listen to it another five thousand times or something.  But, I honestly couldn't even get through the first CD I was so bored.  I literally turned it off.  Not that it's bad.  It's just... boring.  I'm sorry, not trying to be offensive, just giving my opinion.
That was my opinion of my first listening too. That it was too slow, poppyish... during the second and third times it started connected and now it feels very cohesive, and not lagging at all. I suggest you give it some more spins, maybe with headphones for improved absortion.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 05, 2016, 09:08:34 AM
Argh, the slightly dissonant trumpets in Dystopian Overture drive me nuts every time it plays!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlackInk on February 05, 2016, 09:10:34 AM
I must say that even though Hymn of a Thousand Voices is really cheesy, it's pretty emotionally effective. Especially like the first half or so.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DreamerTV on February 05, 2016, 09:17:13 AM
I must say that even though Hymn of a Thousand Voices is really cheesy, it's pretty emotionally effective. Especially like the first half or so.

Are you talking about that part taken from a B side from a Kings of Leon album?
(i really like KoL, and so Hymn of a thousand Voices!)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on February 05, 2016, 09:18:00 AM
The album is full of brilliant little melodies, some of them are almost hidden. Really enjoying the hell out of it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: nikatapi on February 05, 2016, 09:44:49 AM
I must say that even though Hymn of a Thousand Voices is really cheesy, it's pretty emotionally effective. Especially like the first half or so.

Οne of my favorite songs for sure. Very cool melody.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: FsF on February 05, 2016, 09:48:13 AM
Would I be right in thinking that this is the first DT album with no songs credited to 'Dream Theater' music-wise?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 05, 2016, 09:50:33 AM
umm, maybe it is me too late, and everybody has already know about this.
But if you wanna hear sound of NOMACS beside from The Astonishing Album, you can visit this DT site https://www.dreamtheater.net/?frontpage=true
and point your mouse to Main NOMACS, the biggest one...
I think that was great, I can hear another NOMACS voice  :biggrin:
So, that is the sound everyone hear almost everyday in 2285...  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 05, 2016, 09:56:22 AM
The album is full of brilliant little melodies, some of them are almost hidden. Really enjoying the hell out of it.
Agreed. There's so many little layers of things that it demands your attention and multiple listenings to catch them all. It's what I loved about this band in the early years, and happy to have a return to an album that asks that I spend time to get to know it again.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 05, 2016, 10:46:29 AM
Those NOMAC sounds are cool, I'mma try to save it to a file.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ErHaO on February 05, 2016, 11:07:45 AM
umm, maybe it is me too late, and everybody has already know about this.
But if you wanna hear sound of NOMACS beside from The Astonishing Album, you can visit this DT site https://www.dreamtheater.net/?frontpage=true
and point your mouse to Main NOMACS, the biggest one...
I think that was great, I can hear another NOMACS voice  :biggrin:
So, that is the sound everyone hear almost everyday in 2285...  :lol

My god,came here to post this. Thing nearly gave me a hard attack just now (headphones set to a subtle, low volume song).

But the sounds are cool indeed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 05, 2016, 11:49:14 AM
NOMAC sounds from the website:
https://www32.zippyshare.com/v/wNo3F9Jb/file.html
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 05, 2016, 11:50:49 AM
I don't think I am the right one to do it, but I think it'd be a really cool and feasible idea to have a sort of definitive thread for connections between songs.

For example to start with, for Dystopian Overture it could list by timestamp all the parts identified as themes or sections that appear in later songs. Then for each song it could list any connections people find and (what other song it is connected with).

Obviously a gargantuan task for one person, but if there was a thread where people could just post any individual connections they notice, it might not be such a difficult task to eventually list people's contributions in the OP.

With 34 tracks to listen to, I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed parts familiar from other songs but couldn't quite recall which one it was from - and by the time you listen through the full 2 hour album again you might have forgotten what it was you were looking for.

This would be a cool idea indeed!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 05, 2016, 11:55:11 AM
Is " The Answer " the shortest full band song DT have done ?

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 05, 2016, 11:56:08 AM
Is " The Answer " the shortest full band song DT have done ?

Almost sure it is if we're talking about "full band"! and it's one of the best songs on the album, as short as it is!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 05, 2016, 12:00:12 PM
The Answer : 1.53

The Answer Lies Within 5.33


NUGGETz
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 05, 2016, 12:01:20 PM
Through My Words should be shorter..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 05, 2016, 12:02:38 PM
But that's just piano and vocals isn't it ? Maybe some guitar...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 05, 2016, 12:10:33 PM
Guitars come in later with the full band, Through My Words is piano and vocals only.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 05, 2016, 12:23:39 PM
I think we're confusing Through My Words with Through Her Eyes...?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 05, 2016, 12:31:35 PM
Through My Words, the lead in to Fatal Tragedy is the song I mean.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on February 05, 2016, 01:01:27 PM
I suspect that most of the people who don't like this album are the younger metal guys.  With any luck, their tastes will mature with age and they will come to appreciate this magnum opus for what it is: sitting at the top of the heap, alongside the previously sacrosanct SFAM.

I never thought I would ever be writing those words.  TA is one of those nice little surprises that life sometimes throws your way.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 05, 2016, 01:14:38 PM
I suspect that most of the people who don't like this album are the younger metal guys.  With any luck, their tastes will mature with age

I'm pretty sure that most of the people who dislike the album are not doing so because of immaturity.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on February 05, 2016, 01:25:07 PM
sitting at the top of the heap, alongside the previously sacrosanct SFAM.

Why previously sacrosanct? How did The Astonishing make SFAM not sacrosanct?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on February 05, 2016, 01:37:01 PM
I suspect that most of the people who don't like this album are the younger metal guys.  With any luck, their tastes will mature with age

I'm pretty sure that most of the people who dislike the album are not doing so because of immaturity.

That is not what I meant.  Just that most peoples musical tastes broaden as they age, which is what happened to me.  Not calling anyone immature.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on February 05, 2016, 01:37:50 PM
sitting at the top of the heap, alongside the previously sacrosanct SFAM.

Why previously sacrosanct? How did The Astonishing make SFAM not sacrosanct?

Unassailable?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on February 05, 2016, 01:44:30 PM
sitting at the top of the heap, alongside the previously sacrosanct SFAM.

Why previously sacrosanct? How did The Astonishing make SFAM not sacrosanct?

Unassailable?

Slightly better
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: flintdragon on February 05, 2016, 01:58:39 PM
Love this album so far.  Growing and growing on me though I have to admit, I couldn't get into it until I actually read the story on the main DT site.  Now everything connects so well.  If you haven't read it, I suggest you do it.

Other than the normal complaints of songs too disconnected/short and "why was the awesome solo faded out", I really wish they made the finale "The Astonishing" song even grander.  I view this album just like a broadway musical.  The final song should blow you away by the final note causing you to stand on your feet in applause... and this one didn't.

Anyone else feel like that?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sycsa on February 05, 2016, 02:31:35 PM
So, I finally had the chance to listen to it. Hopefully, it will grow on me as time goes by, as it is indubitably a monumental effort, but it didn't connect with me the first time around. It was quite a chore to get through it, actually.

I never really liked DT's ballads, they often tend to venture into kitschy territory when it comes to their slower songs (especially the choruses) and this album feels like it's 80% ballads. It's just one soft piano intro after the other (make no mistake, I love Jordan's piano playing, but it gets overwhelming here). The snare drum sound sucks again and it has no dynamics. Why? It befuddles me why they put a gated, deep, almost triggered-like snare drum sound on an otherwise versatile and dynamic album. It just begs for a different snare and more dynamic playing. I didn't hear a single different snare hit throughout the entire album, let alone ghost notes, which should be a must for an epic album like this.

On the flip side, Jordan using a real Hammond + Leslie combo is an absolute treat for a keyboard aficionado such as myself. It's something I've been wishing for since I got acquainted with DT in 2005 (and a reason why I would have preferred if Derek had stayed longer) and it's almost surreal to hear those fat, growling organ sounds instead of the usual digital, artificial organ simulation. Even though the piano feels a bit too much (at least for now), Jordan really delivered this time, gotta tip my hat off to him.

Amidst a plethora of forgettable and sometimes downright cheesy melodies (Brother Can You Hear Me instantly struck me as a stinker), there are quite a few good ones too, some surprisingly fresh and intensely virtuoso instrumental passages and spectacular vocal deliveries. There are a lot of moments where I thought "Wow, I've never heard DT play like this before."

MM has some moments where his chops shine through, JP's solos are pleasant as usual, however there wasn't a single moment where I remarked JM's bass. He's virtually non-existent on TA, which is surprising given how prominent his sound was on DT12.

I was quite surprised how much the whole thing plays and feels like a rock opera. When I was a little kid, I starred in a bunch of rock operas, listening to TA instantly brought me back to those days, I was seeing images from that period of my childhood almost all the way through. It was nice to connect to the new album on that nostalgic level. Hopefully, after subsequent listens, it'll connect with my current self as well, because right now, I'm not feeling it. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on February 05, 2016, 02:38:08 PM
is there a place to find the lyrics (and who's talking) online?  or do you have to buy the CD?  Im listening on apple music. 

also, do people notice a big difference in sound on HD tracks?  (using good headphones or speakers).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 05, 2016, 02:39:33 PM
Feeling it is the important thing, Sycsa. The first time I heard the album, I found it too long, there were too many ballads....Now, I like it a lot. On the subject of MM's drumming, I understand it's not your thing. Yet, to say you cannot hear ghost notes is strange because I can hear some very clearly, and I'm not even a musician.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 05, 2016, 02:39:52 PM
Apparently there's zero diff between the CD and the HD Tracks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 05, 2016, 02:54:13 PM
One thing I don't understand - why do people seem to think that piano intros = ballads?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 05, 2016, 02:56:45 PM
One thing I don't understand - why do people seem to think that piano intros = ballads?

When I was a kid, we learned that a ballad is a song that told a story. How is it that a ballad has evolved into a song that is slow and mellow?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sycsa on February 05, 2016, 02:56:57 PM
On the subject of MM's drumming, I understand it's not your thing. Yet, to say you cannot hear ghost notes is strange because I can hear some very clearly, and I'm not even a musician.
B.Lee
I love MM otherwise, he's one of my all time favorite drummers and huge inspiration to me. I just wish they produced his drums differently. Yeah, there have to be some ghost notes here and there, they even had them on DT12 (on Behind the Veil) and that had way worse drums, but the overall theme here is that the snare just needs more dynamics, especially on an album like this.

One thing I don't understand - why do people seem to think that piano intros = ballads?
I didn't say that. TA has a bunch of ballads and a bunch of piano intros, they don't necessarily correlate. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 05, 2016, 02:59:26 PM
One thing I don't understand - why do people seem to think that piano intros = ballads?

When I was a kid, we learned that a ballad is a song that told a story. How is it that a ballad has evolved into a song that is slow and mellow?
That's actually a really good point. But in truth I even meant slow mellow songs - just because a song opens with a slow piano melody doesn't mean it's a slow song. There are very few ballads, in that sense, on TA.

By the correct definition of ballad, as you rightly point out, the album as a whole is a ballad, as is any other rock opera or concept album. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 05, 2016, 03:00:41 PM
One thing I don't understand - why do people seem to think that piano intros = ballads?
I didn't say that. TA has a bunch of ballads and a bunch of piano intros, they don't necessarily correlate. 
This wasn't directed specifically at you, you were just unlucky to be the latest person to say it that caused me to decide to actually say something. :lol But you did say the album was 80% ballads. :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 05, 2016, 03:01:44 PM
On the subject of MM's drumming, I understand it's not your thing. Yet, to say you cannot hear ghost notes is strange because I can hear some very clearly, and I'm not even a musician.
B.Lee
I love MM otherwise, he's one of my all time favorite drummers and huge inspiration to me. I just wish they produced his drums differently. Yeah, there have to be some ghost notes here and there, they even had them on DT12 (on Behind the Veil) and that had way worse drums, but the overall theme here is that the snare just needs more dynamics, especially on an album like this.

Oh, OK, I get what you mean and I agree with you.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sycsa on February 05, 2016, 03:09:32 PM
One thing I don't understand - why do people seem to think that piano intros = ballads?
I didn't say that. TA has a bunch of ballads and a bunch of piano intros, they don't necessarily correlate. 
This wasn't directed specifically at you, you were just unlucky to be the latest person to say it that caused me to decide to actually say something. :lol But you did say the album was 80% ballads. :P
I said it feels like that. It's obviously nowhere near that figure 'objectively'. Perhaps I should have elaborated more clearly, what I was gunning for is that the album drags and feels way to slow, at least the first time around. I often found myself thinking that "ok, now a groovy riff must be coming" and I was hit yet again with a piano intro and soft, whispery vocals.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theseoafs on February 05, 2016, 03:18:22 PM
The album is very good.  I've only listened to it in full like 5 times which isn't nearly enough for me to feel like "I get it".  There's some excellent stuff here, and some stuff which is essentially filler too.  I could take or leave the concept, and I don't feel the story is awfully interesting, but good on them since it seems to have inspired them.

I need to listen to it more.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on February 05, 2016, 03:30:06 PM
final note causing you to stand on your feet in applause... and this one didn't.

Anyone else feel like that?

My first listen, I just there like, "that's it?"

But my second listen at work with earphones, something about "music REIGNS forevermore!" just really resonated within me, and the rest of that last stanza "ETERNALLY IN HARMONY, OUR LIVES WILL BE ASTONISHING AGAIN" was just a huge emotional crescendo and when that final note struck, I pulled out my earphones and just fist pumped. Thank God my cubicle walls are really high.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on February 05, 2016, 03:33:12 PM
is there a place to find the lyrics (and who's talking) online?  or do you have to buy the CD?  Im listening on apple music. 

also, do people notice a big difference in sound on HD tracks?  (using good headphones or speakers).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1UUXmvM3xmPa0JUU21UZTVRNTg/view
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Duke1 on February 05, 2016, 03:42:11 PM
3rd listening for me, still loving it. In the top 3 for me with I&W and Scenes. Ironically I find The Astonishing closer to the feel of Transatlantic and Neal Morse with Mike Portnoy, in terms of less "Metal" and more melody / symphonic which I also really love. Great stuff.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 05, 2016, 03:47:32 PM
One thing I don't understand - why do people seem to think that piano intros = ballads?
I didn't say that. TA has a bunch of ballads and a bunch of piano intros, they don't necessarily correlate. 
This wasn't directed specifically at you, you were just unlucky to be the latest person to say it that caused me to decide to actually say something. :lol But you did say the album was 80% ballads. :P

The amount of time the ballads take up is 15:39 (TA, AoF, Chosen, The X Aspect) to 30:59 at a stretch (adding WYTHC, BCYHM, ALLB) on Act 1 and 9:44 (BA, LF, WotW) to 19:14 (adding HoaTV and Astonishing). The pure ballads take up 25:23 of the album and adding the loosely defined ones makes it 50:13. About 19%-38% of ballads on the album from 7-12 tracks. There's a lot more ballad than most / all other DT albums but there isn't really really that much. DT12 has 7%, ADToE has 21%, BCaSL has 7%, SC has 14%, 8vm has 24%, ToT has 4%, SDoIT has 6%, SfaM has 19%, FII has 22%, Awake has 23%, IaW has 12% and WDaDU has 0% (lol).

No real reason for doing that, was just curious.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 05, 2016, 03:50:26 PM
Am I the only one who has not been skipping ANY of the tracks?
Nope!  I love listening all the way through.  :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 05, 2016, 03:56:37 PM
Am I the only one who has not been skipping ANY of the tracks?
Nope!  I love listening all the way through.  :)

Same here.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Duke1 on February 05, 2016, 04:02:10 PM
Same here...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 05, 2016, 04:17:18 PM
One thing I don't understand - why do people seem to think that piano intros = ballads?
poor people who skip Three Days then... they have skip one of the best song in this album
 :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thunderdog10 on February 05, 2016, 04:19:29 PM
Feeling it is the important thing, Sycsa. The first time I heard the album, I found it too long, there were too many ballads....Now, I like it a lot. On the subject of MM's drumming, I understand it's not your thing. Yet, to say you cannot hear ghost notes is strange because I can hear some very clearly, and I'm not even a musician.

B.Lee

actually according to dr-loudness.com the HD tracks got a lower DR score than the CD.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on February 05, 2016, 04:30:39 PM
Am I the only one who has not been skipping ANY of the tracks?
Nope!  I love listening all the way through.  :)

Same here.
Same here...  :tup
I cant even listen The Gift of Music without listen to Descent of NOMACS and Dystopian Overture first  :biggrin:
And I cant listen Moment of Betrayal Without listen 2285 Entr'acte first  :lol

one of the best thing about The Astonishing is you cant just skip song and missing the best feeling ever.
You have to listen song continously... If not, there’ll be hell to pay... And BUG will tear down your home stone by stone...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DoctorAction on February 05, 2016, 04:48:43 PM
Was feeling a bit disappointed but a week in and I'm loving TA. So much to absorb (and any DT album takes time to understand) but the positive feeling is all over this. Happy. Best since 6D?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peter Mc on February 05, 2016, 04:52:47 PM
Just a quick question for those obsessed with the sound of the snare and it's lack of dynamics/warmth, triggered/sampled etc etc.

Do you all have a problem listening to Images & Words where it is actually confirmed as being triggered?  Seems to me that this is revered as one of their best albums, if not their actual best album.  Just curious why it doesn't seem to spoil people's enjoyment of that record but people are obsessed with it on the Mangini albums.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: 7StringedBeast on February 05, 2016, 05:11:04 PM
Just a quick question for those obsessed with the sound of the snare and it's lack of dynamics/warmth, triggered/sampled etc etc.

Do you all have a problem listening to Images & Words where it is actually confirmed as being triggered?  Seems to me that this is revered as one of their best albums, if not their actual best album.  Just curious why it doesn't seem to spoil people's enjoyment of that record but people are obsessed with it on the Mangini albums.

People have always criticized I&W's snare drum sound.  However, that sound fits the production of the album and the feel of the music on that album.  It never bothered me.  The reason it gets glossed over more is because it's an old album at this point so everything has been said about it already, and also that the album is so magnificent that getting that picky doesn't make much sense.  It's really not that bad at all.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 05, 2016, 05:34:27 PM
For those who keep on insisting that the snare has no dynamics. Listen to Losing Faythe. Intently. Hear the ghost notes, in particular. Note the volume of the snare. Then listen to Moment of Betrayal afterwards. Then listen to A New Beginning. If you can still say that the snare played at the same volume in these three songs, then maybe it's just me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 05, 2016, 05:36:42 PM
I easily prefer TA's snare sound to IW's. Even though TA's is mechanical at times, it does at least sound like a real snare drum.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 05, 2016, 05:41:17 PM
Well, I will admit that the middle of Act 2 is kind of a black hole for me (tracks 6-10 are all ones I am skipping already)...:P
You're skipping the album's climax?!

And how can you expect songs to be "memorable" if you don't actually listen to them? :P

I have listened to them; quite a few times, actually. Perhaps a better way to say is that when I am pressed for time, none of them are go-to songs for me, but if I let the album just play, I'll usually let them play. 

One thing I don't understand - why do people seem to think that piano intros = ballads?

Thank you!  Some talk like half the album is ballads, which is a crock of shit.  Quite a few songs have dynamic shifts between mellow and rocking, and I guess to some that makes it a ballad.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 05, 2016, 08:16:07 PM
For those who keep on insisting that the snare has no dynamics. Listen to Losing Faythe. Intently. Hear the ghost notes, in particular. Note the volume of the snare. Then listen to Moment of Betrayal afterwards. Then listen to A New Beginning. If you can still say that the snare played at the same volume in these three songs, then maybe it's just me.

It's a big improvement over DT12, and the snare definitely does have some dynamics this time with a lot of ghost notes audible (even when the heavy riff of Three Days kicks in you can hear the dynamics on the snare), but there's definite room for improvement too.
It's still like every hit above 50% sounds identical, and I don't know if it's that drum sound, but even the softer hits don't have a lot of variety in tone, and that detuned sound doesn't cut through well with the rest of the band. It needs that sharp snap. Check out the start of A New Beginning where MM is doing that march sort of snare pattern. You can hear the dynamics, but it's not as wide as it feels it should be, and there's not a lot of variety in the tone as you'd expect from a typical natural snare.


I suspect that most of the people who don't like this album are the younger metal guys.  With any luck, their tastes will mature with age and they will come to appreciate this magnum opus for what it is: sitting at the top of the heap, alongside the previously sacrosanct SFAM.

This is wrong on multiple levels.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: FlashCE on February 05, 2016, 08:24:07 PM
Many of you seem to know so much about music production. Ever considered a career in it?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 05, 2016, 08:24:56 PM
For those who keep on insisting that the snare has no dynamics. Listen to Losing Faythe. Intently. Hear the ghost notes, in particular. Note the volume of the snare. Then listen to Moment of Betrayal afterwards. Then listen to A New Beginning. If you can still say that the snare played at the same volume in these three songs, then maybe it's just me.

It's a big improvement over DT12, and the snare definitely does have some dynamics this time with a lot of ghost notes audible (even when the heavy riff of Three Days kicks in you can hear the dynamics on the snare), but there's definite room for improvement too.
It's still like every hit above 50% sounds identical, and I don't know if it's that drum sound, but even the softer hits don't have a lot of variety in tone, and that detuned sound doesn't cut through well with the rest of the band. It needs that sharp snap. Check out the start of A New Beginning where MM is doing that march sort of snare pattern. You can hear the dynamics, but it's not as wide as it feels it should be, and there's not a lot of variety in the tone as you'd expect from a typical natural snare.

Well, this I would agree with. It could be more dynamic. But there are dynamics and they can be clearly heard.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on February 05, 2016, 09:35:38 PM
At the beginning of The walking shadow, when Xander sings his lines, I seriously tho he was just going to fucking kill Daryus there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: NoseofNicko on February 05, 2016, 10:04:28 PM
Why does LaBrie use a different voice/accent for Lord Nafaryus one time (such a foolish young man, doesn't seem to understand)? It's weird.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on February 05, 2016, 10:05:51 PM
Why does LaBrie use a different voice/accent for Lord Nafaryus one time (such a foolish young man, doesn't seem to understand)? It's weird.

And "Saddest of IIiIis to watch how you fall..."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Vandalism on February 05, 2016, 11:16:48 PM
is there a place to find the lyrics (and who's talking) online?  or do you have to buy the CD?  Im listening on apple music. 

also, do people notice a big difference in sound on HD tracks?  (using good headphones or speakers).

Hey smegolas, have you been able to download the album on to your device from Apple Music. I am not able to do that for some reason.

Its strange coz they let me download Dystopia album on the release day itself!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 06, 2016, 02:06:27 AM
Well, I will admit that the middle of Act 2 is kind of a black hole for me (tracks 6-10 are all ones I am skipping already)...:P
You're skipping the album's climax?!

And how can you expect songs to be "memorable" if you don't actually listen to them? :P

I have listened to them; quite a few times, actually. Perhaps a better way to say is that when I am pressed for time, none of them are go-to songs for me, but if I let the album just play, I'll usually let them play.
Yeah I get you, I was being a little facetious. I do the same if I just want to listen to a few songs, or half an album's worth, for whatever reason, I naturally gravitate to the ones that interest me most.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 06, 2016, 03:09:08 AM
Many of you seem to know so much about music production. Ever considered a career in it?


Yes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 06, 2016, 03:45:01 AM
I for one love this album. I feel that Dream Theater remade the same damn album template over and over post-Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, bar the straight metal album Train of Thought (which I find hard to stick with for all its runtime), to the point they became a very formulaic band, who would only create the odd classic like Count of Tuscany which kept me hooked, so it's great seeing them attempt something outside their comfort zone for the first time in a long while.

First listen it was overwhelming, but subsequent visits show just how much is going on here. The story is simplistic, the lyrics matter of fact and the pacing off, but damn the music is great, and James LaBrie has not been so nuanced a performer since Awake. For a while the other members had to carry him due to his voice problems, but here he is the MVP foundation of the thing and stands up to the task perfectly. Adore his singing here.

As with Awake (to my mind the band's finest album), this is too idiosyncratic and unexpected to grab everybody – especially as it isn't really a prog, or arguably even metal, album. It's a rock opera, and a highly listenable one at that. A flawed album for sure, but it's their best since Six Degrees and has entered my top five, along with Images and Words, Awake, Scenes from a Memory and Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence. I think it may just top Six Degrees, though my top three are unbeatable classics.

I think the much maligned 'music player' part is wonderful, by the way.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on February 06, 2016, 05:22:42 AM
Why does LaBrie use a different voice/accent for Lord Nafaryus one time (such a foolish young man, doesn't seem to understand)? It's weird.

And "Saddest of IIiIis to watch how you fall..."

I love that saddest of all bit during A New Beginning. I guess it's give it some feeling
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on February 06, 2016, 06:06:49 AM
Why does LaBrie use a different voice/accent for Lord Nafaryus one time (such a foolish young man, doesn't seem to understand)? It's weird.

And "Saddest of IIiIis to watch how you fall..."

The "saddest of all..." part sounds really Muse-y to me
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SnakeEyes on February 06, 2016, 06:08:19 AM
I've been thinking about this since my last post and I think the reason why I don't care for has to do more with the story.  With an album like this, it's not just the music, obviously.  It's a package deal.  I really hate to be one of those people to compare this to SFAM, but I have to here. 

With SFAM, the story just worked.  It was simple, but it worked.  I don't like the story of this album at all.  I just think it's kind of lame.  Again, not trying to be offensive to the band or anything, just my opinion.  So, if I think the story is lame, anything the music is doing is trying to heighten the story, which I already don't care for to begin with.  It's like watching a movie you don't like... you're probably not going to like the film score, either. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 06, 2016, 06:11:04 AM
I've been thinking about this since my last post and I think the reason why I don't care for has to do more with the story.  With an album like this, it's not just the music, obviously.  It's a package deal.  I really hate to be one of those people to compare this to SFAM, but I have to here. 

With SFAM, the story just worked.  It was simple, but it worked.  I don't like the story of this album at all.  I just think it's kind of lame.  Again, not trying to be offensive to the band or anything, just my opinion.  So, if I think the story is lame, anything the music is doing is trying to heighten the story, which I already don't care for to begin with.  It's like watching a movie you don't like... you're probably not going to like the film score, either.

I totally get what you mean. Really hard to feel the music when you don't feel the story. It's a shame though, because when you buy onto the story, listening to the album is really a rewarding experience.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SnakeEyes on February 06, 2016, 06:11:19 AM
Oh, and to add to my last post -- I think SFAM did a much better job of using the music to convey the story.  I think this is wayyy too long and kind of.... I don't know what else to say.... pompous.  It's kind of just long for the sake of being long.

edited....

I think SFAM could have been longer and this could have been shorter.  Let me put it like that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 06, 2016, 06:14:17 AM
I don't think it's pompous at all. The lyrics/titles are very straightforward, there's a lightness of touch, the tracks are short, and there seems to be more Jesus Christ Superstar or Disney in it than prog snobbery or pseudo-intellectualism. It does have its flaws and Act II isn't as great as Act 1, but by DT standards it's easily in the top half of their discography. It isn't as good as SFAM, but I never expected it to be.

Surprised at all the hate for the final track. When LaBrie said 'astonishing' I marked out. It achieved the sort effect the climaxes of many recent DT 'epics' aspire for and fail to realise. Whenever I finish it, I immediately want to start the album again.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SnakeEyes on February 06, 2016, 06:17:37 AM
I mean pompous, overall.  It's a TWO HOUR concept album.  It's a monster of an album.  I don't think this particular story warrants a two hour concept album.  I don't mind listening to a concept album this long if the plot is interesting, this just doesn't do it.  Not being argumentative, just explaining what I meant by pompous.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 06, 2016, 06:23:10 AM
I think Act 1 flows pretty much perfectly, whilst the second lags a bit after Heaven's Cove and recovers momentum with Hymn of a Thousand Voices. There are DT albums half the length of this one that I think are more pompous. Hell, there are individual DT songs I think are more pompous than this album.

It isn't life changing like Images and Words or Awake, but it's highly enjoyable cheesy fun, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 06, 2016, 06:35:05 AM
I don't think this particular story warrants a two hour concept album.

I actually think the story could've been elaborated on further by filling up the 2nd CD with showing story elements that were pushed aside like the NOMACS and the conflict between the militia and the empire. Maybe even 3 seperate albums to tell the story in over 200 mins in 3 discs with the first disk being Disk One as it is, the second elaborating on the NOMACS and RRM vs GNE and the third being Disk Two as it is with maybe some extra callbacks to the things added to the story.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mc7 on February 06, 2016, 07:40:33 AM
I think Act 1 flows pretty much perfectly, whilst the second lags a bit after Heaven's Cove and recovers momentum with Hymn of a Thousand Voices. There are DT albums half the length of this one that I think are more pompous. Hell, there are individual DT songs I think are more pompous than this album.

It isn't life changing like Images and Words or Awake, but it's highly enjoyable cheesy fun, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Agreed - Act 1 flows extremely well and is the best of the two acts overall.

I find it interesting that many others feel the album lacks some traction in the middle of Act II, when it is during this period that the band let loose with their virtuosity and interplay, which seemed to have been a part of the album that most of us seemed to miss sorely.

For me, personally, the moment the albums loses some traction is during Losing Faythe and Whispers On The Wind.
Losing Faythe has the worst album moment - that awful crying (or laughing??) and the fact that it is the only symphonic moment that feels redundant and would have been better if it was acoustic only, as per the first half.
Whispers On The Wind is the only one I would consider filler and has the album's least memorable melody.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RuRoRul on February 06, 2016, 07:58:49 AM

For me, personally, the moment the albums loses some traction is during Losing Faythe and Whispers On The Wind.
Losing Faythe has the worst album moment - that awful crying (or laughing??) and the fact that it is the only symphonic moment that feels redundant and would have been better if it was acoustic only, as per the first half.
Whispers On The Wind is the only one I would consider filler and has the album's least memorable melody.
Agreed here. And that is one of my biggest problems with the albumwhen judging it as a story. It probably isn't helped by the fact I don't find Our New World or Astonishing particularly strong as climactic closers for the album, so the real drag after The Walking Shadow caused by spending a bit too long on Losing Faythe and  Whispers On The Wind doesn't even pay off.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on February 06, 2016, 08:09:02 AM
This album is a big risk for the band.  For me, there is way too much ballads and no epic songs.  I have listened to it a few times, I don't feel amazed like I usually feel about their albums.  I won't buy it and certainly no go to the show.  It's gonna be a first for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 06, 2016, 08:10:00 AM
I'd rather the band take a risk once in a while than just churn out an 8 track 75 minute album with a 24 minute epic at the end every two years.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 06, 2016, 08:10:07 AM
This album is a big risk for the band.  For me, there is way too much ballads and no epic songs.  I have listened to it a few times, I don't feel amazed like I usually feel about their albums.  I won't buy it and certainly no go to the show.  It's gonna be a first for me.

 ???

34 songs and only 5-7 I would call ballads.  That is too many?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Virtualman64 on February 06, 2016, 08:21:21 AM
I think it's a masterpiece.Although it's alot to take in all at once.I finally heard it all the way through this week.It may replace SFAM as my favorite concept album.It seems to contain influences from every great concept album I've ever heard;2112,Tommy,Operation Mindcrime,etc.I also hear Yes,and Queen in places.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 06, 2016, 08:23:01 AM
For me, personally, the moment the albums loses some traction is during Losing Faythe and Whispers On The Wind.
Losing Faythe has the worst album moment - that awful crying (or laughing??) and the fact that it is the only symphonic moment that feels redundant and would have been better if it was acoustic only, as per the first half.
Whispers On The Wind is the only one I would consider filler and has the album's least memorable melody.

I like the 'Gaaaaaaaaaaabriel, myyyy son' stuff at the end of Losing Faythe.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 06, 2016, 09:32:48 AM
Anyway, a week after listening to this album, I can safely say that I more or less got my head around it; I assume it will take weeks, if not months, to get all the little nuances and less obvious reoccuring themes, but now it's safe to say that....... I absolutely love the album whohooho!!!!

A monumental record, unlike anything they've ever done, they took a huge risk and it paid off. The whole experience of sitting down for 2 hours with the album is demanding but rewarding, it's a musical film (well, it's a rock opera after all, hehe) that has many wonderful moments. It's not that I love every second of it, at time it drags and I don't like all of the songs (for example, while I think the moment of Arhys' death is spot on, the climax of the story around Hymn of a Thousand Voices and Our New World hasn't strong enough songs), but the not-so-good things about this album are far outweighed by the very good things about it.

If I had to complain about anything, it would be the details: the packaging of the album (white credits on white background? booklet glued to the case with small lyrics in the most average and common font? come on!), and the scream at the end of My Last Farewell, is that supposed to pierce someone's eardrums? a bit underwhelming... but all in all this is a gorgeous record and I look forward very much to hear it live. I already know I'll be tearing up like a fountain at the end of Astonishing, the ending with the "People can you hear us" section.

Bravo DT, bravo!!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Rickharris1011 on February 06, 2016, 10:09:46 AM
One week in.  Still love it.
Like most albums from DT, any other band, or any musical I like certain tracks don't click with me enough to re-listen much. They work (For me) in the context of a whole and all have moments I enjoy, but not like other songs.  I created a playlist weeding out the NOMAC tracks and the 3 songs I don't really like (Begin Again, Whisper, Losing Faythe) - still have over 100 minutes!  Better than any album I've ever purchased!  Since life only allows me to listen to 2-5 songs at a time, it's an A+ for me. 

As I was writing this Heaven's cove kicked in with that riff of death at 2:30.  Fucking awesome!

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 06, 2016, 10:18:37 AM
The pacing problems of Act 2 are why I can't bring myself to put it up there with I + W, Awake or SFAM, which lack any major flaws, but it's still such a listenable album and still the 'best of the rest' in terms of my rankings.

I'm hoping over time I'll come to view the middle of Act 2 as being on par with the rest of the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mc7 on February 06, 2016, 10:18:53 AM
For me, personally, the moment the albums loses some traction is during Losing Faythe and Whispers On The Wind.
Losing Faythe has the worst album moment - that awful crying (or laughing??) and the fact that it is the only symphonic moment that feels redundant and would have been better if it was acoustic only, as per the first half.
Whispers On The Wind is the only one I would consider filler and has the album's least memorable melody.

I like the 'Gaaaaaaaaaaabriel, myyyy son' stuff at the end of Losing Faythe.
For me, personally, the moment the albums loses some traction is during Losing Faythe and Whispers On The Wind.
Losing Faythe has the worst album moment - that awful crying (or laughing??) and the fact that it is the only symphonic moment that feels redundant and would have been better if it was acoustic only, as per the first half.
Whispers On The Wind is the only one I would consider filler and has the album's least memorable melody.

I like the 'Gaaaaaaaaaaabriel, myyyy son' stuff at the end of Losing Faythe.

True, it is another fantastic symphonic moment on the album and I love to sing along to that section.
I think my criticism may be more directed at its placement on the album than the quality of the song itself.
I feel it slightly spoils the impact of the later symphonic tracks - Hymn Of A Thousand Voices and the Title Track, but that may be just me.
If there is one thing that Act II Part 1 did do very well was hold back on the epic symphonic closures of songs, intentionally saving them perfectly for the end, so having it re-appear on Losing Faythe is, for me, a little premature.
Maybe, when I finally receive my copy of the CD and I can follow the story through the lyrics it will make more sense to me.
When viewing the song based on its own merits though it's still pretty good....although I still stand by my opinion that the "crying" intro is the worst moment of the album, hands down!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Rickharris1011 on February 06, 2016, 10:25:25 AM
Interesting thought:
I think the flow of act II  would have been better if Losing Faythe, Whispers and Hymn were all one song, or at least flow into each other like Walking and Last Farewell.  They have a similarity to them, and are really one conversation. I think that would make the climactic moment at Hymn stronger. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 06, 2016, 10:27:32 AM
Whispers on the Wind is kinda superflous... I understand there has to be the "darkest moment", "we're all screwed" point in the story but it's kinda bland, it could have been just a somber verse tackled at the beginning of Hymn with Gabriel despairing, and then the song changing to a more uplifting tune.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 06, 2016, 10:34:01 AM
It would take more than truncation, I think. Act 2 begins and ends well, but there's something about the overall emphasis in the middle that isn't up to the incredible standard of the rest of the album. Even minor details like the oddly unimpressive 'deafening scream' bother me. Should have been a bigger moment.

The ending of Ravenskill slays me. It's the type of cheese only Dream Theater can get away with. Amazing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on February 06, 2016, 10:35:27 AM
I'd rather the band take a risk once in a while than just churn out an 8 track 75 minute album with a 24 minute epic at the end every two years.

Agree, but the next one I want Train of Thought meets SC type of music. :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 06, 2016, 10:48:09 AM
I would like a super heavy TOT style album with all natural recording. Just drums and amps.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 06, 2016, 10:58:05 AM
I'd rather the band take a risk once in a while than just churn out an 8 track 75 minute album with a 24 minute epic at the end every two years.

Agree, but the next one I want Train of Thought meets SC type of music. :metal

God, no. Dream Theater is prog metal and I'm here more for the metal than for the prog, but that style of heaviness wasn't really to my liking, I prefer more the style of Awake.

I want it as well to be heavier, but not exagerated to the point that you can't distinguish DT from generic contemporary metal bands. And I hope they keep from this album the taste for melodies and that the song structure has to serve the story the lyrics are telling and not the way around, I'm kinda tired of the whole "This song needs a solo section, so let's put our LTE suits, let's jam the hell out of this and whatever 5 minutes come out we'll stick 'em in the middle of a verse, chorus, verse, chorus song" approach.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 06, 2016, 11:01:33 AM
I like Losing Faythe. I find it more memorable than The Path That Divides, The Walking Shadow or My Last Farewell, to be honest – not to mention the superfluous Whispers on the Wind. Those are the tracks that lose the momentum for me, which is ridiculous as The Path That Divides and The Walking Shadow should be huge event tracks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 06, 2016, 11:05:05 AM
I would like a super heavy TOT style album with all natural recording. Just drums and amps.

Yeah, it'd be cool for DT to go completely the other way from TA like what ToT was for SDoIT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: nicmos on February 06, 2016, 11:26:13 AM

If I had to complain about anything, it would be the details: the packaging of the album (white credits on white background? booklet glued to the case with small lyrics in the most average and common font? come on!),


The packaging is so annoying!  I literally cannot read like a third of the liner notes, and the rest require straining my eyes and tilting the page at just the right angle.  And the fact that you can't take it out of the cover?  Whose idea was that?  The guy in charge of the packaging should be fired.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 06, 2016, 11:30:14 AM

If I had to complain about anything, it would be the details: the packaging of the album (white credits on white background? booklet glued to the case with small lyrics in the most average and common font? come on!),


The packaging is so annoying!  I literally cannot read like a third of the liner notes, and the rest require straining my eyes and tilting the page at just the right angle.  And the fact that you can't take it out of the cover?  Whose idea was that?  The guy in charge of the packaging should be fired.

Agreed.  Piss poor job on all levels, with regards to packaging.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 06, 2016, 12:15:41 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/FBLKnXu.jpg)



^ The Astonishing album credits.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gh101 on February 06, 2016, 01:10:22 PM
I don't think I am the right one to do it, but I think it'd be a really cool and feasible idea to have a sort of definitive thread for connections between songs.

For example to start with, for Dystopian Overture it could list by timestamp all the parts identified as themes or sections that appear in later songs. Then for each song it could list any connections people find and (what other song it is connected with).

Obviously a gargantuan task for one person, but if there was a thread where people could just post any individual connections they notice, it might not be such a difficult task to eventually list people's contributions in the OP.

With 34 tracks to listen to, I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed parts familiar from other songs but couldn't quite recall which one it was from - and by the time you listen through the full 2 hour album again you might have forgotten what it was you were looking for.

This would be a cool idea indeed!

Just made a new thread for this!  :D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jammindude on February 06, 2016, 01:15:56 PM
Well, it took me a week but I finally made it through the entire album. I've been really busy and my life is a circus. I have to say that I'm really enjoying this so far. It's certainly the single most ambitious thing I've ever heard them do. Out of the gate, my favorite song is hymn of 1000 voices,  but we will see what sticks in the long run.

 This album is going to take a very long time to digest in its entirety.

I just wanted to correct this statement I made earlier.  I had the wrong track.   It was Our New World that had stuck out to me.    I blame the hard to read packaging.   :angel:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DragonAttack on February 06, 2016, 01:46:46 PM
Listened to what I've divided up into Sides 1 and 2 (up to and including "The Hovering Sojourn").  All together, the best music of the album.  To the naysayers, I had to put up with ToT, SC, and BC&SL....there is good and bad in all, but ....damnit. this album is MUSIC!

Curious as to whether 'Lord Nefaryus' ends Side 1, or starts Side 2 on the vinyl. [I figure it starts Side 2, but IDNK]

Obviously the best material on the album.  There are good tracks afterwards, but it could all have been condensed to make one disc.

That being said....I get goosebumps during the last 30-40 seconds of 'Dystopian Overture', thinking of what it will be like when performed live.  As well as at the end of 'A Better Life', 'An Act of Faythe', etc, etc, etc.

I *DO* wish.....that songs didn't change pace/characters/flow so much.  It would not have hurt do short songs (check out Side Two of Queen's 'Sheer Heart Attack') with just one character.  That is not a rock opera, but each little one to two minute song stands out on its own.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ReaperKK on February 06, 2016, 02:32:25 PM
Just popping in here to give my two cents after reading this thread.

While I don't know the writing dynamic I don't really care for JR's contributions on The Astonishing. I'm assuming he did the orchestration and it's just too much. I feel like they should have taken a more simple approach to this new album instead of the this grand rock album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 06, 2016, 02:47:58 PM
*tears you apart*.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on February 06, 2016, 02:59:19 PM
Just popping in here to give my two cents after reading this thread.

While I don't know the writing dynamic I don't really care for JR's contributions on
 The Astonishing. I'm assuming he did the orchestration and it's just too much. I feel like they should have taken a more simple approach to this new album instead of the this grand rock album.

The orchestrations were done by David Campbell not JR.
I love the grandios orchestrations. They did something totally different eith this album and I am grateful for that.
They actually wrote the music for this one, not just jammed it together in the studio, and to me it shows.

Next album might be more of what they usually do. But I hope they take the songwriting mode with them to the next one as well.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 06, 2016, 03:13:57 PM
Has anyone compiled what the choir is singing at various parts?  In particular when they're not just doing echos or oohs/ahs?  I've already discussed the ending of "Three Days" on here, but there's also that section of the title track... I think they're saying:

"Brother, I will make you proud. Rest in peace."

Can anyone confirm?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 06, 2016, 03:19:18 PM
It's listed as Xander's lines... Father I will make you proud, rest in peace
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 06, 2016, 04:09:50 PM
Whispers on the Wind is kinda superflous... I understand there has to be the "darkest moment", "we're all screwed" point in the story but it's kinda bland, it could have been just a somber verse tackled at the beginning of Hymn with Gabriel despairing, and then the song changing to a more uplifting tune.
I can't agree with this, personally, as it's my favourite of that run. Losing Faythe and Hymn are nice but I prefer Whispers. Kinda reminds me of some of The Dear Hunter's slower songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theanalogkid7 on February 06, 2016, 04:16:07 PM
So I've been reading reviews of this album for awhile now, as well as trying to gauge the reaction here amongst the fans.  So far, there seems to be quite a bit of love for this album.  People really seem to be digging the story, the music, and just the whole idea of this vast world that's being created.

Stupidly, I've also read the comments on the reviews, YouTube "reviews", and even comments on Facebook.  There also seems to be quite a bit of hate for this album.  A lot of the hate seems to be from people that have no idea of the story, like they haven't read the lyrics or checked out the track explanation page of the website, and they also seem to be completely unaware that the story is what took precedent.  And I think that's what makes me so frustrated by some of the backlash - it's ignorant people just spewing crap.  Not surprisingly, these seem to be the same people that are still so bitter about MP being out of the band.

Is it just me?  Am I crazy to think that if people took the time to fully immerse themselves in the story while listening to the album they'd be able to find some level of enjoyment in it?  Perhaps I'm being too sensitive to all of this; I just really am excited about this album and that DT decided to do something so vastly different than anything they'd done before, and really different than anyone else is doing currently.

(I also get that this album just won't click with people, and that's totally cool.  If you're one of those that has given it a fair chance, then my strange, stream of conscience rambling above isn't directed at you.)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: johnnysuperfan on February 06, 2016, 04:23:02 PM
So I've been reading reviews of this album for awhile now, as well as trying to gauge the reaction here amongst the fans.  So far, there seems to be quite a bit of love for this album.  People really seem to be digging the story, the music, and just the whole idea of this vast world that's being created.

Stupidly, I've also read the comments on the reviews, YouTube "reviews", and even comments on Facebook.  There also seems to be quite a bit of hate for this album.  A lot of the hate seems to be from people that have no idea of the story, like they haven't read the lyrics or checked out the track explanation page of the website, and they also seem to be completely unaware that the story is what took precedent.  And I think that's what makes me so frustrated by some of the backlash - it's ignorant people just spewing crap.  Not surprisingly, these seem to be the same people that are still so bitter about MP being out of the band.

Is it just me?  Am I crazy to think that if people took the time to fully immerse themselves in the story while listening to the album they'd be able to find some level of enjoyment in it?  Perhaps I'm being too sensitive to all of this; I just really am excited about this album and that DT decided to do something so vastly different than anything they'd done before, and really different than anyone else is doing currently.

(I also get that this album just won't click with people, and that's totally cool.  If you're one of those that has given it a fair chance, then my strange, stream of conscience rambling above isn't directed at you.)

you have said that well, not alone of those thoughts. I really enjoy this album entirely. I don't even compare it to previous DT albums. To me it stands on its own merit. The whole concept by Petrucci into this mass story. I haven't played anything else in over a week, can't say enough how good and enjoyable the Astonishing is.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 06, 2016, 04:27:23 PM
I don't even compare it to previous DT albums. To me it stands on its own merit.

I agree with this so much. Because it's so long and different, it's really hard to place with the rest of their discography, though in terms of effort it's clearly on top.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theanalogkid7 on February 06, 2016, 04:32:53 PM
I don't even compare it to previous DT albums. To me it stands on its own merit.

I agree with this so much. Because it's so long and different, it's really hard to place with the rest of their discography, though in terms of effort it's clearly on top.

I've been saying since my first listen, it's really incredibly difficult to figure out where this album would place within the discography of DT.  It either needs to be on it's under a "Soundtrack" category, or have an asterisks next to the title.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 06, 2016, 04:35:39 PM
I almost feel sorry for those people who don't even try to understand what this album is all about (and most importantly what ISN'T), judging it after a listen or two based only on what they thought the album should have sounded like.

Of course people are entitled to not like the album neither should they listen to it over and over if after a week or two it doesn't click, but this is a demanding album with a full story line behind, and it asks to be invested in all of it. As the analog kid said, just give it its fair share, try to understand what they were trying to do, before deciding all in a hurry that it sucks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: johnnysuperfan on February 06, 2016, 04:38:33 PM
I don't even compare it to previous DT albums. To me it stands on its own merit.

I agree with this so much. Because it's so long and different, it's really hard to place with the rest of their discography, though in terms of effort it's clearly on top.

I've been saying since my first listen, it's really incredibly difficult to figure out where this album would place within the discography of DT.  It either needs to be on it's under a "Soundtrack" category, or have an asterisks next to the title.

I might sound as a fanboy in which I am, I really applaud the band & John Petrucci for having the balls to create this idea at this point in DT history. From the characters, the story, the map is outstanding work. There will be critics of course, but many of us fans can't wait to see this on stage & how James will portray each character live, which will be a challenging task, but he will pull it off well
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 06, 2016, 04:50:39 PM
Just popping in here to give my two cents after reading this thread.

While I don't know the writing dynamic I don't really care for JR's contributions on The Astonishing. I'm assuming he did the orchestration and it's just too much. I feel like they should have taken a more simple approach to this new album instead of the this grand rock album.

I like what they did with this album. It's undoubtedly different and not something I would expect from them at this stage of their career. It'll never be a top 5 Dream Theater CD for me (ADTOE is number 5 and I don't think the new CD will be able to surpass that), but there are a lot of great songs on The Astonishing and it's really starting to grow on me. The first time I heard Moment of Betrayal I was not impressed but now it's one of my favorite songs on the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chego_voice on February 06, 2016, 06:03:32 PM
I'm exited for two reasons:

1.- This album is BY FAR the best DT album in their career. (IMHO)
2.- I just finished a Split Screen Cover of MOB.

(Tomorrow Online)

 :yarr :metal :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ReaperKK on February 06, 2016, 07:39:05 PM
Just popping in here to give my two cents after reading this thread.

While I don't know the writing dynamic I don't really care for JR's contributions on The Astonishing. I'm assuming he did the orchestration and it's just too much. I feel like they should have taken a more simple approach to this new album instead of the this grand rock album.

I like what they did with this album. It's undoubtedly different and not something I would expect from them at this stage of their career. It'll never be a top 5 Dream Theater CD for me (ADTOE is number 5 and I don't think the new CD will be able to surpass that), but there are a lot of great songs on The Astonishing and it's really starting to grow on me. The first time I heard Moment of Betrayal I was not impressed but now it's one of my favorite songs on the album.

I like that they took the the risk and did something different, it's just not for me. I wish they went a bit more stripped down. This album reminds me of "Use Your Illusion" to me in the way that with some trimming it would have made a great single disc. This is all my opinion though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 06, 2016, 08:55:40 PM
Oh, and to add to my last post -- I think SFAM did a much better job of using the music to convey the story.

I made this point to a friend the other day, I think the problem is that JP was trying to drive along the plot with the lyrics of the songs. Not even musicals do that, they always have a lot of spoken dialogue to drive the plot, and then have the songs reserved for crucial sections that usually showcase a crucial emotional element of the plot.
So, TA wastes precious time on lyrics like "can you help me? Nope, busy. Oh, OK." or that Nafaryus goes on a trip. Key parts, like Nefaryus' change of mind from switching from an oppressive ruler to a benign supporter of the art, are shortchanged and don't come across as believable.
IMHO, TA should have been a written short story in the booklet, with all the details necessary to make all parts believable, and the songs would have focused on key characterand plot parts.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jsbru on February 07, 2016, 12:50:58 AM
For those that care about such stuff...

The album's ranking on Prog Rock Archives just inched past 4 stars some time in the last 24 hours.  The only other DT albums past 4 stars are I&W, Awake, SFAM, and 6DOIT.

Sites like Rate Your Music still have it ranked as their worst album, but those people are a bunch of mouth-breathers, anyways.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 07, 2016, 12:57:20 AM
The album's ranking on Prog Rock Archives just inched past 4 stars some time in the last 24 hours.  The only other DT albums past 4 stars are I&W, Awake, SFAM, and 6DOIT.

I know many fans who think The Astonishing is the only DT album to reach the level of those classics. The pacing problems of Act II relegate it to fourth or fifth place of my top five (still processing), but these are the albums that remind me why I love DT. None of the rest come close, although they all have their strengths.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jsbru on February 07, 2016, 01:08:16 AM
I know many fans who think The Astonishing is the only DT album to reach the level of those classics. The pacing problems of Act II relegate it to fourth or fifth place of my top five (still processing), but these are the albums that remind me why I love DT. None of the rest come close, although they all have their strengths.

I've never been a huge fan of SFAM (IMO not a lot of weak spots, but not a lot of soaring highs, either, except for maybe Finally Free and Through Her Eyes) or 6DOIT (like the title track a ton, but the first disc is kind of weak), but I never thought they'd put out another album that could challenge I&W and Awake.  I think this one has potential.  I have to let it sink in for a bit, give it one more full listen, stop listening to it for a month or two, and then come back to it before I can really get a handle on where it's going to settle in.  But right now, it's within the realm of their best albums.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 07, 2016, 01:41:30 AM
The Great Debate's lyrics/concept are sort of embarrassing, but otherwise I think the first disc of 6DoIT is almost perfect. Disappear is one of my favourite DT songs.

Images and Words/Awake/SFAM are DT's masterpieces and 6DoIT/TA are their near masterpieces. It's good to finally have a solid top five, rather than trying to see the best in albums I'm not keen on as a whole in order to make up the numbers. I wish Octavarium clicked with me more, as it seems to with most fans.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 07, 2016, 02:39:41 AM
Key parts, like Nefaryus' change of mind from switching from an oppressive ruler to a benign supporter of the art, are shortchanged and don't come across as believable.
Not sure why you think that - at the very latest it starts in A New Beginning where we discover that he is not really such a bad guy after all. Arguably it starts in When Your Time Has Come or thereabouts, where he is visibly moved by Gabriel's singing. So it's pretty clearly signposting and doesn't happen suddenly.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 07, 2016, 03:10:04 AM
Completely agree with Ariich on Nafaryus's change.
One thing that bothers me about the album, and I already said in another thread, is that Act 1 and Act 2 doesn't seem to belong to the same album. I mean, theay are so different in character. Btw, Act 1 is great, Act 2 is just good. The problem I have with Act 2, besides being so different from Act 1, is the problem I had with DT 12 : I find it has little to no repeat value, so much so that I have a tendency to only listen to Act 1 (my listening experience would be Act 1, 8 times, Act 2, 5 times and the gap is widening).

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 07, 2016, 03:15:10 AM
Act I is consistently brilliant, whilst Act 2 meanders in the middle. Thankfully it recovers in time for what is, in my opinion, a very strong finale.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 07, 2016, 03:31:35 AM
If it weren't for Our New World, I could do without Act II entirely. Most of it I either strongly dislike, or find completely forgettable after many listens. Even Act I loses some steam in the second half.
This is why I was concerned about a double disc album from the start. Keeping the quality up for over 2 hours of music is just not going to happen. If this album was a single disc, it could have easily been top half of DT's discography.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 07, 2016, 03:38:23 AM
As others already said, I think this album could really have three acts; Three Days' ending has "Commercial break incoming" written all over it. I actually wish that The Hovering Sojourn and Digital Discord were swapped, since the latter is longer and would mark even more "Act I - part 1" and "Act I - part 2" so to speak.

Oh, and if we arbitrarly decide that there are three acts and the first ends with Three Days, I'd say that act is basically perfect. There's not a moment on it that I would change or shorten.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 07, 2016, 03:47:21 AM
Oh, and if we arbitrarly decide that there are three acts and the first ends with Three Days, I'd say that act is basically perfect. There's not a moment on it that I would change or shorten.

I don't love every moment of it, but from the start of the album up until the end of Three Days is a hell of a run, and largely what I love in the album. :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Pettor on February 07, 2016, 04:06:45 AM
After 1 week listen to album I just love it more and more. Its constantly on my mind and I want to rerun it once more just longing to find 2 hours without interruption.

Some songs are of course more highlights than others but personally like them all and think they have a valid place. Love the recurring themes and they just seem to get more epic with each time it happen.

Also as huge LaBrie fan this is just so much candy. Human Equation was a previous statement of how well this voice fit the rock opera concept and now there is 2 hours of just that! OMG!!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: PixelDream on February 07, 2016, 04:22:28 AM
I'm glad everyone's enjoying this, but I'm heartbroken. I was already with the last two albums, but they were alright. At least they still had a little rock 'n roll to them. Don't get me wrong, I like DT's ballads for the most part. But the amount here is just cringeworthy, story or no story. Also, I'm baffled by the amount of seven-string guitar here while not sounding heavy at all.. it's like the band have no idea about what makes music cool in the first place. I honestly can't say I prefer The Astonishing over When Dream and Day Unite.

https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=180




Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 07, 2016, 04:58:18 AM
it's like the band have no idea about what makes music cool in the first place. I honestly can't say I prefer The Astonishing over When Dream and Day Unite.

I strongly disagree with you on both your points : the music is not cool for YOU, and that's different to say the music is not cool ; WDaDU is not really good composition-wise and what can I say about the prod?
Yet, and we can agree on this, it seems as if the band has forgotten to make a good album from start to finish, that is in its entirety.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheAtliator on February 07, 2016, 05:32:29 AM
A couple more days of letting it sit and I only feel much more strongly that When Dream and Day Unite is a greater work. That album is so absolutely glorious in so many ways, and it's funny how listening to/thinking about that album really brings out to me so many of the most important aspects of powerful song writing that is so missing from The Astonishing.

For many, it is difficult to hear these aspects on WDADU because it's hidden behind low quality production and bad singing (no offense to CD, who I fully respect), and because some of these aspects are a bit deeper and more intricate than what the average (or even DT) listener picks up on at first.

But it is a certain purpose behind the song that drives the direction and makes the writer search for perfection in every note and lyric. That can only be fueled by a passion in the writer to express something, and it's what will ignite that same passion in the listener when they feel it.

I will also add that A Dramatic Turn of Events is a great example of music with that passion and direction. I don't, by any stretch, believe that DT has lost that; I just find Astonishing to be the weakest.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 07, 2016, 05:37:51 AM
I'm glad everyone's enjoying this, but I'm heartbroken. I was already with the last two albums, but they were alright. At least they still had a little rock 'n roll to them. Don't get me wrong, I like DT's ballads for the most part. But the amount here is just cringeworthy, story or no story. Also, I'm baffled by the amount of seven-string guitar here while not sounding heavy at all.. it's like the band have no idea about what makes music cool in the first place. I honestly can't say I prefer The Astonishing over When Dream and Day Unite.

https://youtu.be/BFK3H5Tl_Lo?t=180

'Hearbroken'? A bit too self pitying, isn't it? Come on, it's just an album that disappointed you just because it doesn't allign with your tastes. Also, is seven string supposed to be always heavy? If anything, it's probably more creative that they used the extended range for something other than heaviness.

About the link, Anthony Fantano hates prog metal, so it's invalid. Also, holy crap are some of those comments so terrible. "I hate Dream Theater so much. On a personal level. What pisses me off is they know that no one respects them for what they're doing, yet they still insist on not putting any feel into their music. They don't understand that their idols, while they sound technical at times, achieved what they achieved through 100% feel. Technical playing was just an after thought". Wow. Hey, why don't Dream Theater do something different for their next album, put some FEEL into it! Hell, it may even get someone to respect them! I get that people can dislike the album, but to do it in such a gloriously douchey way (not talking about you, PixelDream) just irritates me to no end.

Sorry if I came off too aggressive, there.


it seems as if the band has forgotten to make a good album from start to finish, that is in its entirety.

B.Lee

I disagree with this, but I may be in the minority.

A couple more days of letting it sit and I only feel much more strongly that When Dream and Day Unite is a greater work. That album is so absolutely glorious in so many ways, and it's funny how listening to/thinking about that album really brings out to me so many of the most important aspects of powerful song writing that is so missing from The Astonishing.

For many, it is difficult to hear these aspects on WDADU because it's hidden behind low quality production and bad singing (no offense to CD, who I fully respect), and because some of these aspects are a bit deeper and more intricate than what the average (or even DT) listener picks up on at first.

But it is a certain purpose behind the song that drives the direction and makes the writer search for perfection in every note and lyric. That can only be fueled by a passion in the writer to express something, and it's what will ignite that same passion in the listener when they feel it.

I will also add that A Dramatic Turn of Events is a great example of music with that passion and direction. I don't, by any stretch, believe that DT has lost that; I just find Astonishing to be the weakest.

That's probably a fair observation, it seems many see WDaDU as the anti-sacred cow of the DT discography when there's still some enjoyable stuff on there, if people are willing to listen for it. I don't really agree that TA is worse, but I respect your opinion.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 07, 2016, 07:47:54 AM
Just popping in here to give my two cents after reading this thread.

While I don't know the writing dynamic I don't really care for JR's contributions on The Astonishing. I'm assuming he did the orchestration and it's just too much. I feel like they should have taken a more simple approach to this new album instead of the this grand rock album.

I like what they did with this album. It's undoubtedly different and not something I would expect from them at this stage of their career. It'll never be a top 5 Dream Theater CD for me (ADTOE is number 5 and I don't think the new CD will be able to surpass that), but there are a lot of great songs on The Astonishing and it's really starting to grow on me. The first time I heard Moment of Betrayal I was not impressed but now it's one of my favorite songs on the album.

I like that they took the the risk and did something different, it's just not for me. I wish they went a bit more stripped down. This album reminds me of "Use Your Illusion" to me in the way that with some trimming it would have made a great single disc. This is all my opinion though.

I totally get that, and you have something there by saying that they could have made this one disc and got rid of a few tracks here and there. I'm not saying the songs should be removed because they're bad songs. It just might have been easier for some people to digest if they condensed everything down to one disc. I still thoroughly enjoy it and each listen makes me appreciate it more.

My biggest gripe are the lyrics. I think for someone who wrote the beautifully ambiguous lyrics to Metropolis Part 1, some of the lyrical passages on the new CD seem a bit...amateurish.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on February 07, 2016, 07:48:13 AM
Some comments about Awake when it was released in '94
Quote
As the new DT record was released earlier here in Sweden, I bought it last
thursday. I was very hopeful that it was going to be a great album (I had
not heard any samples of the songs before). But I most say that I'm NOT
impressed. This is not the interesting, progressive music heard on the last
albums, but a ordinary Headbangers-Ball-Metal record.


Quote
Ok, I'm a lurker who got an early copy of Awake, and I just like to say
people whining about Awake need to find a new list or get their head
examined :-) Its certainly my favorite DT album.



And how about a review of Images and Words:

Quote
        First of all, "When Dream and Day Unite" is perhaps one of my ALL-TIME
        favorite progressive/metal albums!!!!

        But even with all the hype of this new album and new singer, I was
        still kinda skeptical about it...

        Well, I popped it in the ol' player and was blown away! (literally)

        But, too bad the rest of the songs weren't as spectacular as the
        first one...


And Six Degrees:
Quote
DT has been "caught in a web" of its own creation by over zealously
falling to the lure of the progressive "one fantastically long track"
syndrome - which albeit worked so often for it and other bands like
Spock's Beard ('Great Nothing').  But this current album and it's SIX
degrees is basically a pile of pooh.  Track one is the only one that
comes close to true excellence. 

Quote
I can't beleive all the good things I am hearing about this new cd set!
I think disc one totally sucks! I have listened to it over and over,but
you can't make yourself like something! It should have been released as
a single CD with just the second Cd's material. They sound like napalm
death and pantera,what a dissapointment!

I could do this for all the albums, and find a LOT of examples of dislike, even flat out hatred.


My point is; polarization of the fan base has been the norm for Dream Theater - and you'll always find the people that don't like it. Even SFAM had its detractors. The interview I posted earlier with Mike from 2004 said it simply: DT themselves don't even know what to do to please their fans, BECAUSE the fanbase is so diverse that regardless of what they do people will love it, people will hate it.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 07, 2016, 08:00:18 AM
My point is; polarization of the fan base has been the norm for Dream Theater - and you'll always find the people that don't like it. Even SFAM had its detractors. The interview I posted earlier with Mike from 2004 said it simply: DT themselves don't even know what to do to please their fans, BECAUSE the fanbase is so diverse that regardless of what they do people will love it, people will hate it.

I think what makes people forget this is that those albums have properly sunk deep into the DT legacy and have a very well defined purpose to them due to hindsight while it can be difficult to really view how an album like TA fits in the context of DT's discography without biases or kneejerk reactions until there are a few albums afterwards putting it into context. Just look how the reputations of albums such as FII, ToT and Awake have improved, it's because we can now appreciate them for what they are, not what was built up due to hype and expectation. I hope I'm making sense here.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 07, 2016, 08:03:44 AM
My point is; polarization of the fan base has been the norm for Dream Theater - and you'll always find the people that don't like it. Even SFAM had its detractors. The interview I posted earlier with Mike from 2004 said it simply: DT themselves don't even know what to do to please their fans, BECAUSE the fanbase is so diverse that regardless of what they do people will love it, people will hate it.

I think what makes people forget this is that those albums have properly sunk deep into the DT legacy and have a very well defined purpose to them due to hindsight while it can be difficult to really view how an album like TA fits in the context of DT's discography without biases or kneejerk reactions until there are a few albums afterwards putting it into context. Just look how the reputations of albums such as FII, ToT and Awake have improved, it's because we can now appreciate them for what they are, not what was built up due to hype and expectation. I hope I'm making sense here.

It's perfectly clear and I agree with you there.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on February 07, 2016, 08:05:19 AM
Or as seen from the negative peoples perspective: "it's just that the newer albums as SO bad that we now see that the old ones were better" ;)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 07, 2016, 08:06:53 AM
I think Act II starts and ends strongly. I like Losing Faythe more than most people here. The middle just lacks the strong focus of the rest of the album, although it's by no means bad. For me it's already easily in the top half of DT's discography. The run from Systemic Chaos to DT12 is so formulaic and interchangeable.

This album has flaws, but I think even fans who don't like it will have more interesting thoughts about it than that it tried to copy Images and Words in a mediocre manner. Again. I'm glad Dream Theater were more concerned with making good music this album, rather than trying to sound like Dream Theater and meet all simple expectations, which made them a formulaic pastiche band for a while.

I think it's a good sign this album is winning PASSIONATE love or dislike, rather than the general, 'It's OK I guess because it's more DT' reactions their albums have had for over a decade now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 07, 2016, 08:26:23 AM
I think it's a good sign this album is winning PASSIONATE love or dislike, rather than the general, 'It's OK I guess because it's more DT' reactions their albums have had for over a decade now.

I think Jordan mentioned that he'd rather have people rate it 1 and 5 out of 5 than 3 or 4 because then he knew that a risk had been taken.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 07, 2016, 08:26:46 AM
Or as seen from the negative peoples perspective: "it's just that the newer albums as SO bad that we now see that the old ones were better" ;)
"Bad" isn't the correct term, is it? Makes it sound like there's a one size fits all scale to judge any and all music to. Maybe "...SO far away from what I was hoping for..."

'Cause that's essentially what this fanbase is always divided over, isn't it?


"I don't like this because I like DT for "X" style. This album has too much "Y" style for me."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on February 07, 2016, 08:38:45 AM
You must've been reading different social media than me ;)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 07, 2016, 08:41:34 AM
My Last Farewell has grown on me a lot. I think the only song on the album I'm not keen on now is Whispers on the Wind.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 07, 2016, 08:44:42 AM
My Last Farewell has grown on me a lot. I think the only song on the album I'm not keen on now is Whispers on the Wind.

To each his own and that's the beauty of it. I love WotW, the melody and JLB's singing are top-notch for me.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 07, 2016, 08:46:05 AM
LaBrie is top notch on every track. It's his career best.

Whispers on the Wind may grow on me. There is not a single track on here I find too boring to listen to. Insanely consistent release in that regard. The songwriting in Act 2 is still great. The track structure itself just isn't as flawless as in Act I. I've seen comments that Hymn of a Thousand Voices or Astonishing are underwhelming, but I love them.

I'm so impressed with this release, and it feels like everywhere else online hates it. I'm glad people on here seem to dig it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 07, 2016, 09:27:33 AM
I might be in the minority that loves Act II.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on February 07, 2016, 09:36:09 AM
I might be in the minority that loves Act II.

I love both Acts....!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 07, 2016, 09:49:21 AM
Hey, why don't Dream Theater do something different for their next album, put some FEEL into it! Hell, it may even get someone to respect them!

How anyone can say this album doesn't have feel to it is beyond me.  There was variety in feel just in the first single!

And just because someone doesn't like an album doesn't mean it's a bad album.  I think ADTOE is blah, but I ain't making long posts bashing it.

Maybe people's perception of TA will improve with its age....once they get over their personal expectations.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 07, 2016, 09:52:08 AM
Just thinking....the fact they recorded this beast in just a few months is impressive.  Most bands take months just to record an album half this length and nowhere near as detailed!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 07, 2016, 09:54:12 AM
I might be in the minority that loves Act II.


I also love it. Its only crime is not being as insanely amazing as Act I, which was of a quality I'd given up the band being capable of again. I got 'SFAM chills' during many parts. I could bang on about this album's flaws for ages, but it's still a classic DT album, which I never thought would happen again.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Train of Naught on February 07, 2016, 09:57:04 AM
Hey, why don't Dream Theater do something different for their next album, put some FEEL into it! Hell, it may even get someone to respect them!

How anyone can say this album doesn't have feel to it is beyond me.  There was variety in feel just in the first single!

(https://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/018/467/1355331549061.jpg)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 07, 2016, 09:57:09 AM
LaBrie is top notch on every track. It's his career best.
Yes. Absolutely. He should feel intensely proud of himself for his performance on this release.


I'm so impressed with this release, and it feels like everywhere else online hates it. I'm glad people on here seem to dig it.
They've never been one to appeal to light hearted listeners.  3(  And this album needs even seasoned DT fans to invest in opening your ears and mind to more than just disposable earcandy, wankery or crunchy riffs. It's structured, produced and designed as a broadway type musical more than a concept album. A lot of people aren't fans of that and it will turn them right off to the whole thing instantly. And whatever... The biggest and most rewarding risks they've always taken are the ones that don't appeal to broad markets and casual listeners.

Personally though... I love musicals  :lol 

It's been a week of listening to it, and so many different melodies and passages from it are constantly running through my head. It's done what all the DT albums I love have done, invaded my headspace, sat down next to whatever mechanism causes you to hum melodies and taken it over.



Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theseoafs on February 07, 2016, 10:01:26 AM
Oh, and to add to my last post -- I think SFAM did a much better job of using the music to convey the story.

I made this point to a friend the other day, I think the problem is that JP was trying to drive along the plot with the lyrics of the songs. Not even musicals do that, they always have a lot of spoken dialogue to drive the plot, and then have the songs reserved for crucial sections that usually showcase a crucial emotional element of the plot.
So, TA wastes precious time on lyrics like "can you help me? Nope, busy. Oh, OK." or that Nafaryus goes on a trip. Key parts, like Nefaryus' change of mind from switching from an oppressive ruler to a benign supporter of the art, are shortchanged and don't come across as believable.
IMHO, TA should have been a written short story in the booklet, with all the details necessary to make all parts believable, and the songs would have focused on key characterand plot parts.

Some musicals are sung-through, Les Mis being probably the most famous example, and not to mention all operas which have little to no spoken parts. It's not like there isn't precedent for this in the arts, but you could still make the argument that some of the tracks aren't as engaging as others because they deal in less interesting subject matter.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 07, 2016, 10:09:32 AM
Finished around my 15h listen. Shed tears at the end.

This album is sheer camp wonder. That moment when LaBrie says 'astonishing' is as powerful as when Peter Gabriel said 'Jerusalem' at the end of Supper's Ready.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 07, 2016, 10:23:01 AM
Hey, why don't Dream Theater do something different for their next album, put some FEEL into it! Hell, it may even get someone to respect them!

How anyone can say this album doesn't have feel to it is beyond me.  There was variety in feel just in the first single!

(https://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/018/467/1355331549061.jpg)

Spot on there, I thought the green text = sarcasm was universally understood (especially as I've made it clear that I like the album a lot). Apparantly not. Unless dparrott's post wasn't aimed at me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 07, 2016, 10:57:20 AM
The lack of heaviness on TA sorry doesn't bother me at all. I think it allowed JR to shine, because he is clearly much more home in the program music world than in the metal one.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 07, 2016, 11:32:55 AM
DT12 was pretty heavy too make up for it. In fact - seeing as how they were planning The Astonishing for two years - they might have deliberately made DT12 heavy .
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 07, 2016, 11:37:05 AM
I can't be the only person who doesn't think DT12 was especially heavy. I don't know if maybe the overly loud production makes it sound heavier to a lot of people.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theanalogkid7 on February 07, 2016, 11:41:59 AM
I can't be the only person who doesn't think DT12 was especially heavy. I don't know if maybe the overly loud production makes it sound heavier to a lot of people.

I agree with you. While it think it's a slightly heavier album than, say, ADTOE, it's doesn't have the heaviness of TOT, SC, or even Awake.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 07, 2016, 11:42:19 AM
Hey, why don't Dream Theater do something different for their next album, put some FEEL into it! Hell, it may even get someone to respect them!

How anyone can say this album doesn't have feel to it is beyond me.  There was variety in feel just in the first single!

(https://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/018/467/1355331549061.jpg)

Spot on there, I thought the green text = sarcasm was universally understood (especially as I've made it clear that I like the album a lot). Apparantly not. Unless dparrott's post wasn't aimed at me.

No it wasn't.  I got the sarcasm, my point was about the mock criticism that DT doesn't put feeling into their music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 07, 2016, 11:46:41 AM
I can't be the only person who doesn't think DT12 was especially heavy. I don't know if maybe the overly loud production makes it sound heavier to a lot of people.

No, no, I'm with you on this one, Ariich. I didn't find DT12 particularly heavy either.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 07, 2016, 11:49:53 AM
I can't be the only person who doesn't think DT12 was especially heavy. I don't know if maybe the overly loud production makes it sound heavier to a lot of people.

Not Train of Thought heavy but thick and chuggy guitars.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RuRoRul on February 07, 2016, 11:57:40 AM
I kind of thought Dream Theater was one of their least heavy albums... The Enemy Inside is heavy, perhaps Behind The Veil and The Enigma machine would count too as well as parts of Illumination Theory (though overall it doesn't leave the impression of being a heavy epic) but overall I'd possibly have called it the least heavy since FII.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 07, 2016, 11:58:35 AM
I can't be the only person who doesn't think DT12 was especially heavy. I don't know if maybe the overly loud production makes it sound heavier to a lot of people.

I agree with you. While it think it's a slightly heavier album than, say, ADTOE, it's doesn't have the heaviness of TOT, SC, or even Awake.
Indeed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 07, 2016, 12:01:11 PM
I can't be the only person who doesn't think DT12 was especially heavy. I don't know if maybe the overly loud production makes it sound heavier to a lot of people.

Not Train of Thought heavy but thick and chuggy guitars.

Yeah, it's instrumentally and sonically heavy, not neccesarily that musically heavy (though FAS, TEI, EM, BtV and IT certainly are).

No it wasn't.  I got the sarcasm, my point was about the mock criticism that DT doesn't put feeling into their music.

Ah ok, sorry. That's something I can agree with. DT's music throughout their discography has always had passion to me even when it's in a 'safe' album.

I kind of thought Dream Theater was one of their least heavy albums... The Enemy Inside is heavy, perhaps Behind The Veil and The Enigma machine would count too as well as parts of Illumination Theory (though overall it doesn't leave the impression of being a heavy epic) but overall I'd possibly have called it the least heavy since FII.

I'd say SfaM, SDoIT, and 8vm are definitely less heavy and it could be seen to be heavier than BCaSL and ADToE too.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RuRoRul on February 07, 2016, 12:06:08 PM
Hmm, well I don't think I'm on the same wavelength when it comes to judging which album is heavier or not if DT12 could be considered heavier than some of those :P

Perhaps I tend to skew my opinion on what is a heavy album based on having the heaviest individual songs (even if it is mixed with material that is not heavy at all). Very little on DT12 comes close to as heavy as Beyond This Life, Home, The Glass Prison, A Nightmare To Rember, The Shattered Fortress, imo.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 07, 2016, 12:10:29 PM
I feel all post-MP albums have gone back to pre-ToT amount of heavy. I think MP was a strong drive in that direction.
Personally I think it works better for the band. While JP and MP seemed to be in their element in the heavy sections, JR was often struggling to add anything worthwhile.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 07, 2016, 12:19:07 PM
I would like the title of this thread to include "haters stay the f out".    :P   ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 07, 2016, 12:30:52 PM
I feel all post-MP albums have gone back to pre-ToT amount of heavy. I think MP was a strong drive in that direction.
Personally I think it works better for the band. While JP and MP seemed to be in their element in the heavy sections, JR was often struggling to add anything worthwhile.

I think that is why DT12 is so good; its a pretty rocking album, and JR does mostly background and atmospheric lead stuff, playing more to his strengths.  Plus, the songs are all really good.  :hat
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 07, 2016, 12:34:07 PM
Hmm, well I don't think I'm on the same wavelength when it comes to judging which album is heavier or not if DT12 could be considered heavier than some of those :P

Perhaps I tend to skew my opinion on what is a heavy album based on having the heaviest individual songs (even if it is mixed with material that is not heavy at all). Very little on DT12 comes close to as heavy as Beyond This Life, Home, The Glass Prison, A Nightmare To Rember, The Shattered Fortress, imo.

That, as well as Enigma Machine being heavier than any one of those songs and TEI, FAS and BTV being more consistently heavy than BTL, ANtR and TSF.

SfaM has Regression, TMW, THE, OLT, TSCO and FF that aren't very heavy at all.

SDoiT has Dissapear, though BF, Misunderstood and the title track which are largely softer.

BCaSL has Wither and The Best of Times, 18 mins of lighter material as well as big chunks of ANtR, TSF and TCoT.

DT12, however only has three songs with softer sections and two ballady songs, one of which (AftR) is closer to an actual ballad but still has some heavy instrumentation. TBP is reasonably heavy from the first chorus until the bridge and IT has some of the heaviest stuff they've ever done with some of the lightest. The rest of DT12 is heavy prog rock or full-on prog metal.

its a pretty rocking album, and JR does mostly background and atmospheric lead stuff, playing more to his strengths.  Plus, the songs are all really good.  :hat

I agree. Very good album that still holds up (though not much time has passed).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 07, 2016, 12:40:19 PM
I would like the title of this thread to include "haters stay the f out".    :P   ;D

Are you implying The Astonishing is a dog ? :o :o
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on February 07, 2016, 01:01:45 PM
DT12 was pretty heavy too make up for it. In fact - seeing as how they were planning The Astonishing for two years - they might have deliberately made DT12 heavy .
JP said in the radio interview with Eddie Trunk that he had the initial idea of TA during the promotion of DT12. So no.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 07, 2016, 01:17:46 PM
I would like the title of this thread to include "haters stay the f out".    :P   ;D

Are you implying The Astonishing is a dog ? :o :o

haha no, just only want positive posts
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 07, 2016, 01:20:39 PM
I would like the title of this thread to include "haters stay the f out".    :P   ;D

Are you implying The Astonishing is a dog ? :o :o

haha no, just only want positive posts

Pssh, it's a discussion thread, not a "slurp TA" one. :P

All opinions, good and bad, should be welcomed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 07, 2016, 01:59:29 PM
@Bosk or whoever....

1.  Does anyone know if the NOMAC eyes are ever supposed to do anything ?


2. Have we now seen both videos which should be filling the slots  ?

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on February 07, 2016, 02:26:06 PM
nope yes
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 07, 2016, 02:28:06 PM
::) why make something clickable that doesn't do anything ?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on February 07, 2016, 02:35:25 PM
::) why make something clickable that doesn't do anything ?
They did it just to mess with us
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theanalogkid7 on February 07, 2016, 02:52:06 PM
I guess the music video is supposed to be the second video on the page.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 07, 2016, 03:14:42 PM
I would like the title of this thread to include "haters stay the f out".    :P   ;D

Are you implying The Astonishing is a dog ? :o :o

haha no, just only want positive posts

Pssh, it's a discussion thread, not a "slurp TA" one. :P

All opinions, good and bad, should be welcomed.
Indeed. dparrott's post does not represent the views of DTF. :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 07, 2016, 03:27:36 PM
Forced to bear the lion’s share

Ravenskill Shepherd of Ravenskill


:neverusethis: The AnimalStonishing !
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 07, 2016, 08:10:41 PM
I can't be the only person who doesn't think DT12 was especially heavy. I don't know if maybe the overly loud production makes it sound heavier to a lot of people.

The songwriting wasn't very heavy, but the arrangements/mix were, and the completely overwhelming guitar makes the songs sound heavier than they should have been, as well as the in your face metal drum sound. So I sort of agree with both sides.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 07, 2016, 09:39:39 PM
I still don't understand what people mean by ballads. Is it because most songs begin with piano?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theanalogkid7 on February 07, 2016, 10:00:20 PM
I still don't understand what people mean by ballads. Is it because most songs begin with piano?

I think that's very much part of it, but I also think it has to do with how the songs tend to be a more emotional than other DT songs in the past.  Even that, though, isn't saying it right as there are plenty of emotional DT songs.  I think it's because it's emotional and narrative.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 07, 2016, 11:29:52 PM
There are actually not too many full ballads on the album, they just start that way.  Those were an interesting surprise.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 07, 2016, 11:50:42 PM
Oh, and to add to my last post -- I think SFAM did a much better job of using the music to convey the story.

I made this point to a friend the other day, I think the problem is that JP was trying to drive along the plot with the lyrics of the songs. Not even musicals do that, they always have a lot of spoken dialogue to drive the plot, and then have the songs reserved for crucial sections that usually showcase a crucial emotional element of the plot.
So, TA wastes precious time on lyrics like "can you help me? Nope, busy. Oh, OK." or that Nafaryus goes on a trip. Key parts, like Nefaryus' change of mind from switching from an oppressive ruler to a benign supporter of the art, are shortchanged and don't come across as believable.
IMHO, TA should have been a written short story in the booklet, with all the details necessary to make all parts believable, and the songs would have focused on key characterand plot parts.

Some musicals are sung-through, Les Mis being probably the most famous example, and not to mention all operas which have little to no spoken parts. It's not like there isn't precedent for this in the arts, but you could still make the argument that some of the tracks aren't as engaging as others because they deal in less interesting subject matter.

Exactly. People who keep on insisting that they could have reduced this to 1 CD and insist that there is a lot of filler just keep on refusing to judge the work on its own terms. It is a rock musical, with the songs almost 95% telling the story.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on February 08, 2016, 12:10:36 AM
There is no filler.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gm5k on February 08, 2016, 12:14:07 AM
::) why make something clickable that doesn't do anything ?

Why have a gift you can't embrace?

I think "Chosen" is my favorite DT ballad since the FII era.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 08, 2016, 12:21:04 AM
Exactly. People who keep on insisting that they could have reduced this to 1 CD and insist that there is a lot of filler just keep on refusing to judge the work on its own terms. It is a rock musical, with the songs almost 95% telling the story.

And some people keep insisting on using "rock opera" to refuse all criticism of the album, as if people who don't like it just don't get it. It's getting tiring and arrogant. Everyone gets it. It's a rock opera. It's different. Moving along....

The point rumby and others are making is that over two hours was not warranted to tell this story. Just because all of the lyrics are telling story doesn't mean it was all necessary, and couldn't have been told much more concisely and effectively. It's arguable it wasn't all that effective as it was, given there were parts of the story that weren't understood even from the lyrics, and required further explanation on the official site. It is still possible to have filler in a story, and it is still possible to have musical filler. Being a rock opera doesn't negate these criticisms, nor does debating the semantics of what constitutes "filler" or not. It's like with a movie. Just because a scene may have had a purpose, doesn't mean it's essential, which is why they can trim them down for the story and pacing to work more effectively as a whole unit.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on February 08, 2016, 12:24:17 AM
Exactly. People who keep on insisting that they could have reduced this to 1 CD and insist that there is a lot of filler just keep on refusing to judge the work on its own terms. It is a rock musical, with the songs almost 95% telling the story.

And some people keep insisting on using "rock opera" to refuse all criticism of the album, as if people who don't like it just don't get it. It's getting tiring and arrogant. Everyone gets it. It's a rock opera. It's different. Moving along....

The point rumby and others are making is that over two hours was not warranted to tell this story. Just because all of the lyrics are telling story doesn't mean it was all necessary, and couldn't have been told much more concisely and effectively. It is still possible to have filler in a story, and it is still possible to have musical filler. Being a rock opera doesn't negate these criticisms, nor does debating the semantics of what constitutes "filler" or not. It's like with a movie. Just because a scene may have had a purpose, doesn't mean it's essential, which is why they can trim them down for the story and pacing to work more effectively as a whole unit.

This is very well said, articulated and explained. I really agree and appreciate you saying what I couldn't manage to.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tomislav95 on February 08, 2016, 01:38:11 AM
It's good sign when first thing in my head when I woke up was: "I remember your father was moved by my song..." :metal and I didn't listened to that song in a few days.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 08, 2016, 02:26:46 AM
Exactly. People who keep on insisting that they could have reduced this to 1 CD and insist that there is a lot of filler just keep on refusing to judge the work on its own terms. It is a rock musical, with the songs almost 95% telling the story.

And some people keep insisting on using "rock opera" to refuse all criticism of the album, as if people who don't like it just don't get it. It's getting tiring and arrogant. Everyone gets it. It's a rock opera. It's different. Moving along....

The point rumby and others are making is that over two hours was not warranted to tell this story. Just because all of the lyrics are telling story doesn't mean it was all necessary, and couldn't have been told much more concisely and effectively. It's arguable it wasn't all that effective as it was, given there were parts of the story that weren't understood even from the lyrics, and required further explanation on the official site. It is still possible to have filler in a story, and it is still possible to have musical filler. Being a rock opera doesn't negate these criticisms, nor does debating the semantics of what constitutes "filler" or not. It's like with a movie. Just because a scene may have had a purpose, doesn't mean it's essential, which is why they can trim them down for the story and pacing to work more effectively as a whole unit.
I disagree with the word "filler", in a narrative context. Complaints about pacing are one thing, and I get why people might feel the pacing is off, but it's all relevant to the narrative. "Filler" has a precise meaning - padding something out just to make it longer - that I just don't think applies in this context, particularly given the amount of narrative that was excluded. And that's probably what is bugging a lot of people. I know it's just semantics, but using a more derogatory word is naturally going to elicit that sort of reaction.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 08, 2016, 02:51:06 AM
Exactly. People who keep on insisting that they could have reduced this to 1 CD and insist that there is a lot of filler just keep on refusing to judge the work on its own terms. It is a rock musical, with the songs almost 95% telling the story.

And some people keep insisting on using "rock opera" to refuse all criticism of the album, as if people who don't like it just don't get it. It's getting tiring and arrogant. Everyone gets it. It's a rock opera. It's different. Moving along....

The point rumby and others are making is that over two hours was not warranted to tell this story. Just because all of the lyrics are telling story doesn't mean it was all necessary, and couldn't have been told much more concisely and effectively. It's arguable it wasn't all that effective as it was, given there were parts of the story that weren't understood even from the lyrics, and required further explanation on the official site. It is still possible to have filler in a story, and it is still possible to have musical filler. Being a rock opera doesn't negate these criticisms, nor does debating the semantics of what constitutes "filler" or not. It's like with a movie. Just because a scene may have had a purpose, doesn't mean it's essential, which is why they can trim them down for the story and pacing to work more effectively as a whole unit.
I disagree with the word "filler", in a narrative context. Complaints about pacing are one thing, and I get why people might feel the pacing is off, but it's all relevant to the narrative. "Filler" has a precise meaning - padding something out just to make it longer - that I just don't think applies in this context, particularly given the amount of narrative that was excluded. And that's probably what is bugging a lot of people. I know it's just semantics, but using a more derogatory word is naturally going to elicit that sort of reaction.

Yep, I agree (once again?) with you, ariich. It's a problem of pacing, not of fillers. I feel that every track is necessary to the economy of the story even if I don't like the whole album and every single track on it.

B.Lee

edit : 1441 posts. Wow, I like mirror effects! :biggrin:

edit 2 : from JLB twitter : "Received my wardrobe from Wornstar, their threads are incredible. Can't wait for you all to see them. The tour is fast approaching. Raaawwk". Will he change clothes for every character? Can't wait to see his Arabelle and Faythe dresses! :rollin :rollin :rollin

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on February 08, 2016, 03:00:47 AM
Agree with the ariich too. Actually I think they must have trimmed down a lot, there's much more that could've gone into it like the turning of Lord Nafaryus  (WHY does he use NOMACS if he loved music?), a more in depth explanation of Daryus' comeuppance, more info with the NOMACS themselves...

Also agree with a lot of people about Whispers On The Wind. Pretty sure it could've been one track with Losing Faythe. Also would be a double meaning with Gabriel losing faith in himself.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on February 08, 2016, 03:01:15 AM
I only recently realized a highly ironic thing - my favorite song from the album, A New Beginning, has to be the least relevant song to the actual story. I'm not sure what it added to the album lyrically.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 08, 2016, 03:07:32 AM
Agree with the ariich too. Actually I think they must have trimmed down a lot, there's much more that could've gone into it like the turning of Lord Nafaryus  (WHY does he use NOMACS if he loved music?), a more in depth explanation of Daryus' comeuppance, more info with the NOMACS themselves...

Also agree with a lot of people about Whispers On The Wind. Pretty sure it could've been one track with Losing Faythe. Also would be a double meaning with Gabriel losing faith in himself.

As far as the NOMACS go, my 13-year-old son who likes TA a lot told me this morning : "The NOMACS don't really serve any purpose. It's a shame, I would have liked something more coming out of it". I completely agree with him.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 08, 2016, 03:20:18 AM
I only recently realized a highly ironic thing - my favorite song from the album, A New Beginning, has to be the least relevant song to the actual story. I'm not sure what it added to the album lyrically.
That one adds quite a lot, I would say. It's the point at which Faythe convinces Nafaryus to give Gabriel a chance, and does quite a bit to open up Nafaryus' character with the revelation that as a young man he liked to listen to music as well. I mean, the song could be shorter as more than half of it is instrumental and solos, but I don't imagine many fans would want to get rid of that stuff. :lol If anything, it's Road to Revolution that doesn't really add much else.

For the record, I don't think the pacing is perfect, particularly towards the end. I somewhat agree that Losing Faythe and Whispers in the Wind could have been combined.

And I definitely think than Our New World and the title track could have been covered off in one song. They basically say the same thing. The title track is the only one I see as being pretty unnecessary, both musically and narratively. But what with it being at the end, it's easy enough to just not bother with. :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Vlasto on February 08, 2016, 03:39:06 AM
Production  and sound on TA as I hear and feel it :

Pianos. Keys, violins – 4/5
Voices – 4/5
Acoustic guitars - 4/5
Electric guitars – 3/5
Kick drums – 4/5
Snare /toms  - 3.5/5
Toms  - 3/5
Cymbals - 2.5/5
Bass guitars -2/5

overall sound  - 3/5
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 08, 2016, 04:40:17 AM


And some people keep insisting on using "rock opera" to refuse all criticism of the album, as if people who don't like it just don't get it. It's getting tiring and arrogant. Everyone gets it. It's a rock opera.

Yeah like Bill Hicks fans who say " you just don't understand him " when you say Bill Hicks wasn't funny.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 08, 2016, 05:18:45 AM
Exactly. People who keep on insisting that they could have reduced this to 1 CD and insist that there is a lot of filler just keep on refusing to judge the work on its own terms. It is a rock musical, with the songs almost 95% telling the story.

And some people keep insisting on using "rock opera" to refuse all criticism of the album, as if people who don't like it just don't get it. It's getting tiring and arrogant. Everyone gets it. It's a rock opera. It's different. Moving along....

The point rumby and others are making is that over two hours was not warranted to tell this story. Just because all of the lyrics are telling story doesn't mean it was all necessary, and couldn't have been told much more concisely and effectively. It's arguable it wasn't all that effective as it was, given there were parts of the story that weren't understood even from the lyrics, and required further explanation on the official site. It is still possible to have filler in a story, and it is still possible to have musical filler. Being a rock opera doesn't negate these criticisms, nor does debating the semantics of what constitutes "filler" or not. It's like with a movie. Just because a scene may have had a purpose, doesn't mean it's essential, which is why they can trim them down for the story and pacing to work more effectively as a whole unit.

Of course, I am not saying that "rock opera" shields it from criticism. What I am saying is criticize it AS A ROCK OPERA that is written as something to be performed on stage.

Look at the context of the quote I was reacting to. The criticism is that JP tried to do too much for the songs to advance the plot. It said in actual musicals, a lot of the action are left out and are rather done through spoken dialogue. But that is not true. Most operas, and a lot of musicals, do not have spoken dialogue. For the more popular ones among musicals, that would include Les Miserables, Cats, Jesus Christ Superstar, Miss Saigon, etc. JP and JR wrote this as a sung through rock musical. Now judge it as such. It is only fair for the artists for their work to be judged based on what is the actual product that they are presenting. To wish that this be cut down to 1CD or for the songs not to have all the plot advancement is to wish that TA is not a sung through rock musical.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 08, 2016, 05:30:37 AM
It all still reads like "you can't criticize it because you're judging it wrong". I call BS.

I don't see how wishing it was one CD is a problem. It has nothing to do with not being sung through, it just calls for a shorter story. Or you know, DT can do what they want instead of following a set formula for the sake of semantical classification.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on February 08, 2016, 05:34:07 AM
I believe that's exactly what they did - what they wanted, I mean ;)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 08, 2016, 05:34:42 AM
I believe that's exactly what they did - what they wanted, I mean ;)

And you thoroughly missed the point.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: serrano on February 08, 2016, 05:38:11 AM
It's ok to bash it for being longer than needed, even if i don't agree at all. If you don't like it, you just don't like it. It's not like, come on it's a rock opera and so it doesn't matter if it drags for me...

That being said, i don't think it drags at any point, let's see if i have the same opinion in a couple of years.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 08, 2016, 05:39:39 AM
It all still reads like "you can't criticize it because you're judging it wrong". I call BS.

I don't see how wishing it was one CD is a problem. It has nothing to do with not being sung through, it just calls for a shorter story. Or you know, DT can do what they want instead of following a set formula for the sake of semantical classification.

Well, DT did do what they want. They wanted to write a sung through rock opera.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on February 08, 2016, 05:41:22 AM
I spun it twice this weekend on my high end home system and holy crap what a ride!

Honestly it just keeps getting better and better.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: serrano on February 08, 2016, 05:48:31 AM
Since i have little kids at home i am looking for a reasong for a long car drive. It's just almost imposible to find 2h+ to listen in calm.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 08, 2016, 05:50:00 AM
It all still reads like "you can't criticize it because you're judging it wrong". I call BS.

I don't see how wishing it was one CD is a problem. It has nothing to do with not being sung through, it just calls for a shorter story. Or you know, DT can do what they want instead of following a set formula for the sake of semantical classification.

Well, DT did do what they want. They wanted to write a sung through rock opera.

And that's another who missed the point entirely. That had nothing to do with my point about a certain criticism of the album, at least not at all in the way you decided to take it instead. All I wanted was some basic level of respect for opposing viewpoints.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 08, 2016, 06:00:06 AM
It all still reads like "you can't criticize it because you're judging it wrong". I call BS.

I don't see how wishing it was one CD is a problem. It has nothing to do with not being sung through, it just calls for a shorter story. Or you know, DT can do what they want instead of following a set formula for the sake of semantical classification.

Well, DT did do what they want. They wanted to write a sung through rock opera.

And that's another who missed the point entirely. That had nothing to do with my point about a certain criticism of the album, at least not at all in the way you decided to take it instead. All I wanted was some basic level of respect for opposing viewpoints.

The more Dream Theater music the better is how I look at it. However, I definitely agree that it could have been done in one CD and still got the point of the story across. Metropolis 2 anybody? 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: serrano on February 08, 2016, 06:03:42 AM
The good thing about being too long rather than too short, is that you can cut it down the way you prefer it (or skip).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 08, 2016, 06:04:50 AM
I don't see how this could be on one CD, but I think some trimming could have helped the album overall.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 08, 2016, 06:09:20 AM
It all still reads like "you can't criticize it because you're judging it wrong". I call BS.

I don't see how wishing it was one CD is a problem. It has nothing to do with not being sung through, it just calls for a shorter story. Or you know, DT can do what they want instead of following a set formula for the sake of semantical classification.

Well, DT did do what they want. They wanted to write a sung through rock opera.

And that's another who missed the point entirely. That had nothing to do with my point about a certain criticism of the album, at least not at all in the way you decided to take it instead. All I wanted was some basic level of respect for opposing viewpoints.

All I wanted was a basic level of respect for what the band was presenting to us. They wanted to present to us a sung through rock opera. Respect that that is the product that they are offering us. It is written as such. Criticize it as such.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 08, 2016, 06:11:41 AM
It all still reads like "you can't criticize it because you're judging it wrong". I call BS.

I don't see how wishing it was one CD is a problem. It has nothing to do with not being sung through, it just calls for a shorter story. Or you know, DT can do what they want instead of following a set formula for the sake of semantical classification.

Well, DT did do what they want. They wanted to write a sung through rock opera.

And that's another who missed the point entirely. That had nothing to do with my point about a certain criticism of the album, at least not at all in the way you decided to take it instead. All I wanted was some basic level of respect for opposing viewpoints.

The more Dream Theater music the better is how I look at it. However, I definitely agree that it could have been done in one CD and still got the point of the story across. Metropolis 2 anybody?

Will SFAM work as a live on-stage musical, though?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 08, 2016, 06:12:47 AM
It all still reads like "you can't criticize it because you're judging it wrong". I call BS.

I don't see how wishing it was one CD is a problem. It has nothing to do with not being sung through, it just calls for a shorter story. Or you know, DT can do what they want instead of following a set formula for the sake of semantical classification.

Well, DT did do what they want. They wanted to write a sung through rock opera.

And that's another who missed the point entirely. That had nothing to do with my point about a certain criticism of the album, at least not at all in the way you decided to take it instead. All I wanted was some basic level of respect for opposing viewpoints.

All I wanted was a basic level of respect for what the band was presenting to us. They wanted to present to us a sung through rock opera. Respect that that is the product that they are offering us. It is written as such. Criticize it as such.

I could make a drinking game out of this canned response. I give up.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 08, 2016, 06:16:07 AM
It all still reads like "you can't criticize it because you're judging it wrong". I call BS.

I don't see how wishing it was one CD is a problem. It has nothing to do with not being sung through, it just calls for a shorter story. Or you know, DT can do what they want instead of following a set formula for the sake of semantical classification.

Well, DT did do what they want. They wanted to write a sung through rock opera.

And that's another who missed the point entirely. That had nothing to do with my point about a certain criticism of the album, at least not at all in the way you decided to take it instead. All I wanted was some basic level of respect for opposing viewpoints.

The more Dream Theater music the better is how I look at it. However, I definitely agree that it could have been done in one CD and still got the point of the story across. Metropolis 2 anybody?

Will SFAM work as a live on-stage musical, though?

It could easily be extrapolated and transposed as such.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 08, 2016, 06:29:35 AM
This discussion is nearly on page 58 :omg:


NuggETZ
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: serrano on February 08, 2016, 06:50:01 AM
This discussion is nearly on page 58 :omg:


NuggETZ
You move in circles.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 08, 2016, 06:52:26 AM
I only recently realized a highly ironic thing - my favorite song from the album, A New Beginning, has to be the least relevant song to the actual story. I'm not sure what it added to the album lyrically.
That one adds quite a lot, I would say. It's the point at which Faythe convinces Nafaryus to give Gabriel a chance, and does quite a bit to open up Nafaryus' character with the revelation that as a young man he liked to listen to music as well. I mean, the song could be shorter as more than half of it is instrumental and solos, but I don't imagine many fans would want to get rid of that stuff. :lol If anything, it's Road to Revolution that doesn't really add much else.

For the record, I don't think the pacing is perfect, particularly towards the end. I somewhat agree that Losing Faythe and Whispers in the Wind could have been combined.

And I definitely think than Our New World and the title track could have been covered off in one song. They basically say the same thing. The title track is the only one I see as being pretty unnecessary, both musically and narratively. But what with it being at the end, it's easy enough to just not bother with. :P

Road to Revolution has an important narrative point, Faythe informing Gabriel that Nafaryus agreed to meet him at Heaven's Cove. Like Astonishing, it can also feel extraneous, but if you imagine a live stage musical, these are the songs where all the main characters are coming out one by one not so much to forward the story, but to sort of receive the applause of the audience to close out the Act.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BelichickFan on February 08, 2016, 06:55:43 AM
I have a huge problem saying it could have been one CD as about 1/3 of it would have had to be cut and I like the whole thing a lot.  Why cut good stuff ?

I have 3 very minor criticisms :

1) I do love John's solos, really wish they had a few more like the one at the end of A New Beginning.
2) The song Astonishing is so good I wish they had extended it to about 10 minutes.
3) (trivial) It would have been great to have the last word be Astonishing instead of Again.  They could have tweaked the melody to end on Astonishing or to repeat Astonishing.  Would have loved it to end on that word.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: kaos2900 on February 08, 2016, 06:59:49 AM
Finally heard disc 2 and I'm still blown away. Going to focus on disc 2 this week and then give a couple spins straight through. I'll say that I've removed all of the Nomac tracks except for the opening track as I didn't like how it disrupted the flow of the music. From a ranking stand point this is at least top 3 and may even top SFAM but I want more time before trying to rank it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: kaos2900 on February 08, 2016, 07:02:05 AM
Also, does anyone else think that Our New World would have fit perfectly on FII?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Chino on February 08, 2016, 07:13:53 AM
Also, does anyone else think that Our New World would have fit perfectly on FII?

Definitely.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 08, 2016, 07:30:18 AM
Also, does anyone else think that Our New World would have fit perfectly on FII?

I get more of a SDOIT vibe from it (disc 2 specifically).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 08, 2016, 07:31:11 AM
It all still reads like "you can't criticize it because you're judging it wrong". I call BS.

I don't see how wishing it was one CD is a problem. It has nothing to do with not being sung through, it just calls for a shorter story. Or you know, DT can do what they want instead of following a set formula for the sake of semantical classification.

I get what you are saying, Blob. Early Rock Operas like Tommy, The Wall and JCSS would be able to fit on one modern CD and tell their stories in a well paced and full way. Still, for me I want as much DT material as possible so I don't really mind, but I can see why some would want a more focussed and trimmed album as Rock Operas don't have to be 2 hours long.

The good thing about being too long rather than too short, is that you can cut it down the way you prefer it (or skip).

This is worth noting. If it is trimmed down, some songs that people could like would be cut off, like when you sometimes listen to bonus tracks and think "Why did they cut this?". The band may have a different idea of what is neccesary than many listeners. For example, if TA was cut down, but with a significant amount cut from Act I (like 30 mins) then Act II was kept as is, I doubt people like Blob (who really like Act I and aren't so keen on Act II) will be happy.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 08, 2016, 07:36:04 AM
I only recently realized a highly ironic thing - my favorite song from the album, A New Beginning, has to be the least relevant song to the actual story. I'm not sure what it added to the album lyrically.
That one adds quite a lot, I would say. It's the point at which Faythe convinces Nafaryus to give Gabriel a chance, and does quite a bit to open up Nafaryus' character with the revelation that as a young man he liked to listen to music as well. I mean, the song could be shorter as more than half of it is instrumental and solos, but I don't imagine many fans would want to get rid of that stuff. :lol If anything, it's Road to Revolution that doesn't really add much else.

For the record, I don't think the pacing is perfect, particularly towards the end. I somewhat agree that Losing Faythe and Whispers in the Wind could have been combined.

And I definitely think than Our New World and the title track could have been covered off in one song. They basically say the same thing. The title track is the only one I see as being pretty unnecessary, both musically and narratively. But what with it being at the end, it's easy enough to just not bother with. :P

Road to Revolution has an important narrative point, Faythe informing Gabriel that Nafaryus agreed to meet him at Heaven's Cove. Like Astonishing, it can also feel extraneous, but if you imagine a live stage musical, these are the songs where all the main characters are coming out one by one not so much to forward the story, but to sort of receive the applause of the audience to close out the Act.
Yeah I still  wouldn't call it filler, though that probably could have happened at the end of ANB while JP was noodling away. :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 08, 2016, 07:51:22 AM
This is worth noting. If it is trimmed down, some songs that people could like would be cut off, like when you sometimes listen to bonus tracks and think "Why did they cut this?". The band may have a different idea of what is neccesary than many listeners. For example, if TA was cut down, but with a significant amount cut from Act I (like 30 mins) then Act II was kept as is, I doubt people like Blob (who really like Act I and aren't so keen on Act II) will be happy.

Under normal circumstances of being unconnected tracks that would be fine, but being a rock opera with one long narrative, it feels like an all or nothing affair. I'd be missing half of the story, but whether or not I enjoy listening to it obviously comes first. I've never felt right segmenting SFAM or SDOIT either, but luckily I love every minute of those anyway, so I always experience those as a whole.
Since some people keep repeating to judge it as a rock opera, that's how I'll judge it. ;) And as a whole rock opera, it's not one I want to hear as "intended". You don't watch half a rock opera, right? And me cutting it down myself isn't the same as it being written to be more concise to begin with. I totally get your point, but for me it isn't quite the same thing.

That said, I want to point out that I think the first 10 tracks is DT's longest and strongest run of music in a looong time. If I cut the album down to an hour, it would easily be up there with many of the MP era albums, but the rest waters it down to one of their weaker imo. This is a case of less is more for me. I wish I loved the whole thing as much as I love the start of the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kyo on February 08, 2016, 07:56:24 AM
I can't be the only person who doesn't think DT12 was especially heavy. I don't know if maybe the overly loud production makes it sound heavier to a lot of people.

Oh, definitely. Until a few weeks ago I was still using it as an example of "modern heavy DT". It was only once I heard the non-brickwalled HDtracks master that I realized most of the album isn't particularly heavy and it's just the strangely one-dimensional sound with the guitar being so prominent that makes it seem that way. The HDtracks version is a big improvement in that respect. Suddenly The Looking Glass does sound like a Rush tune and not like a Roadrunner metal band playing a Rush tune.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 08, 2016, 08:04:35 AM
I can't be the only person who doesn't think DT12 was especially heavy. I don't know if maybe the overly loud production makes it sound heavier to a lot of people.

Oh, definitely. Until a few weeks ago I was still using it as an example of "modern heavy DT". It was only once I heard the non-brickwalled HDtracks master that I realized most of the album isn't particularly heavy and it's just the strangely one-dimensional sound with the guitar being so prominent that makes it seem that way. The HDtracks version is a big improvement in that respect. Suddenly The Looking Glass does sound like a Rush tune and not like a Roadrunner metal band playing a Rush tune.

I guess this shows how much mastering can change the character of the album, though I still believe that musically, FAS, TEI and EM are some of DT's heaviest stuff.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 08, 2016, 08:06:10 AM
2) The song Astonishing is so good I wish they had extended it to about 10 minutes.

I love the song, but I think it serves it purpouse just fine. All the characters gets their closure:

- Arhys' spirit talks to Gabriel and Faythe who will take care of Xander
- Xander vows to make his father proud
- Gabriel says "Whoah, dude, I had doubts about it but I really rock"
- Faythe says "I will make the world a better place"
- Nafaruys says "Sorry guys, been kinda a dick, I will change"
- Arabelle says "Daryus you're an idiot but now you're deaf so nevermind, we forgive you"

So every character gets his final say, and then the ensemble sings the end. As great the song is, I wouldn't have liked it to be stretched just because "it's the final song we have to make it a long epic".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on February 08, 2016, 08:08:18 AM
Moment of Betrayal just came up on my Paul Gilbert station on Slacker.  Not bad.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 08, 2016, 08:19:56 AM
I can't be the only person who doesn't think DT12 was especially heavy. I don't know if maybe the overly loud production makes it sound heavier to a lot of people.

Oh, definitely. Until a few weeks ago I was still using it as an example of "modern heavy DT". It was only once I heard the non-brickwalled HDtracks master that I realized most of the album isn't particularly heavy and it's just the strangely one-dimensional sound with the guitar being so prominent that makes it seem that way. The HDtracks version is a big improvement in that respect. Suddenly The Looking Glass does sound like a Rush tune and not like a Roadrunner metal band playing a Rush tune.

I guess this shows how much mastering can change the character of the album, though I still believe that musically, FAS, TEI and EM are some of DT's heaviest stuff.
TEI, sure, and I'd add parts of IT. And maybe at a stretch FAS is kinda heavy, but in a slightly cheesy power-metal sort of way.

EM I just don't think is heavy at all really; or rather, no more so than DT is normally. It's fun and quirky.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 08, 2016, 08:25:54 AM
I can't be the only person who doesn't think DT12 was especially heavy. I don't know if maybe the overly loud production makes it sound heavier to a lot of people.

Oh, definitely. Until a few weeks ago I was still using it as an example of "modern heavy DT". It was only once I heard the non-brickwalled HDtracks master that I realized most of the album isn't particularly heavy and it's just the strangely one-dimensional sound with the guitar being so prominent that makes it seem that way. The HDtracks version is a big improvement in that respect. Suddenly The Looking Glass does sound like a Rush tune and not like a Roadrunner metal band playing a Rush tune.

I guess this shows how much mastering can change the character of the album, though I still believe that musically, FAS, TEI and EM are some of DT's heaviest stuff.
TEI, sure, and I'd add parts of IT. And maybe at a stretch FAS is kinda heavy, but in a slightly cheesy power-metal sort of way.

EM I just don't think is heavy at all really; or rather, no more so than DT is normally. It's fun and quirky.

EM isn't heavy? I dunno, the full entrance after the synth intro is pretty damn monstrous and the ending with the fast double-kick and the guitar tremolo is even more so. The main riff is also really headbang-worthy. FAS's low chugging is also pretty heavy.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chego_voice on February 08, 2016, 08:34:25 AM
Hey people! this is me singing MOB! Would you check it out????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzWQPUOOeU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzWQPUOOeU)

I'm so happy! :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 08, 2016, 09:17:58 AM
 :metal :metal Nice work...



But I always find it funny when people do a cover of their favourite band and they use their signature guitars, use their signature amp, put their logo on the instruments, wear their t shirts - play in

front of a poster of the band...  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chego_voice on February 08, 2016, 09:36:22 AM
:metal :metal Nice work...



But I always find it funny when people do a cover of their favourite band and they use their signature guitars, use their signature amp, put their logo on the instruments, wear their t shirts - play in

front of a poster of the band...  :biggrin:

it's called LOVE! hahahaha thanks bro!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tomislav95 on February 08, 2016, 09:45:51 AM
Hey people! this is me singing MOB! Would you check it out????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzWQPUOOeU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzWQPUOOeU)

I'm so happy! :metal
Great work, man :metal
You've got an awesome vibrato.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chego_voice on February 08, 2016, 10:19:03 AM
Hey people! this is me singing MOB! Would you check it out????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzWQPUOOeU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzWQPUOOeU)

I'm so happy! :metal
Great work, man :metal
You've got an awesome vibrato.

it's all about LaBrie!!! he is the beacon in the night!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 08, 2016, 10:20:50 AM
Anybody else find it absolutely hilarious that a bunch of casuals are gonna be buying tickets to see Petrucci shred a night of hard metal, only to be greeted by 2 hours of a ballad heavy sci-fi version of an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical?

It's awesome.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 08, 2016, 10:34:09 AM
That's not funny at all.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chego_voice on February 08, 2016, 10:38:05 AM
Anybody else find it absolutely hilarious that a bunch of casuals are gonna be buying tickets to see Petrucci shred a night of hard metal, only to be greeted by 2 hours of a ballad heavy sci-fi version of an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical?

It's awesome.

 >:(
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tomislav95 on February 08, 2016, 10:47:04 AM
Anybody else find it absolutely hilarious that a bunch of casuals are gonna be buying tickets to see Petrucci shred a night of hard metal, only to be greeted by 2 hours of a ballad heavy sci-fi version of an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical?

It's awesome.
I'd like to have that instead of shredding.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 08, 2016, 11:31:44 AM
Getting a bit tired of reading

" Astonishing is shit because there's no metal on it ".

If you want every album to be the fuking same heavy shit - go listen to Slayer. :facepalm:


My God. I'm so glad Dream Theater exists. They don't make the exact same album every two years and they stick their necks on the line every once in a while.

Kerry King hasn't got the guts to make anything other than a generic thrash album with lyrics about satan and auschwitz.

He wouldn't dare.  He'd be terrified of not looking like tr00 methulz
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on February 08, 2016, 11:32:04 AM
DT will not do this on the full Astonishing tour, but if they do play A new beginning in a future set, I would love to hear a MM drum solo during this song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jsbru on February 08, 2016, 11:36:34 AM
Hey people! this is me singing MOB! Would you check it out????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzWQPUOOeU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzWQPUOOeU)

I'm so happy! :metal

Great job!  When doing DT covers, I think the vocalist almost always has the greatest challenge.  Very few people can sing with authority in the range James sings in.

Is there music/tabs available for this already, or did you guys all do it by ear?  I'm trying to learn the Our New World solo on guitar, but can't figure out those sweep-picking arpeggios, etc.  No tab so far in the usual spots online.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 08, 2016, 11:42:35 AM
Hey people! this is me singing MOB! Would you check it out????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzWQPUOOeU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzWQPUOOeU)

I'm so happy! :metal
Fabulous job! To everyone involved!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on February 08, 2016, 11:48:16 AM
Getting a bit tired of reading

" Astonishing is shit because there's no metal on it ".

If you want every album to be the fuking same heavy shit - go listen to Slayer. :facepalm:


My God. I'm so glad Dream Theater exists. They don't make the exact same album every two years and they stick their necks on the line every once in a while.

Kerry King hasn't got the guts to make anything other than a generic thrash album with lyrics about satan and auschwitz.

He wouldn't dare.  He'd be terrified of not looking like tr00 methulz

(https://media.makeameme.org/created/u-mad-bro-xo17s6.jpg)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 08, 2016, 11:51:13 AM
I don't know what your point is.


1. surely that should be kerry king in that pic

2. you're a DT fan

3. replying with a pic is the absolute bottom of the barrel of humour.

4. profit ??
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on February 08, 2016, 11:53:50 AM
I´m going to see DT perform The Astonishing. That´s what I´m going to see. I knew exactly what to expect when I ordered my ticket, namely that it´s not a regular Dream Theater concert. People that are moaning about TA being disapointing, hey tough. Wait a year and they´ll record a new, probably more regular ´metal´ record. Or not. This is the Astonishing. It is what it is. And I happen to think it´s pretty nifty.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BFRedrocks on February 08, 2016, 11:56:38 AM
I've had complete listen-throughs of TA about a dozen times now and I'm really liking it.  I think if you grasp the story concept with the full volume of music as one, then it works much, much better than if you try to dissect each song as separate pieces of work.

With that said, and as much as I enjoy TA, I'm really hoping for another ToT-type album for their next effort.  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 08, 2016, 11:59:15 AM
Anybody else find it absolutely hilarious that a bunch of casuals are gonna be buying tickets to see Petrucci shred a night of hard metal, only to be greeted by 2 hours of a ballad heavy sci-fi version of an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical?

It's awesome.

Dream Theater are big, but not THAT big to the point that people know about them from the past and go to see them "because it's Dream Theater". I think their fanbase is dedicated enough to know what's going on with the band and be prepared.

I don't think there will be a case like Iron Maiden in 2006, with people deciding to go to see the mighty Maiden they saw back in the '80s, thinking "Surely I will hear Run to the Hills and The Trooper", and getting the whole new album (new by then) front to back.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 08, 2016, 11:59:58 AM
I´m going to see DT perform The Astonishing. That´s what I´m going to see. I knew exactly what to expect when I ordered my ticket, namely that it´s not a regular Dream Theater concert. People that are moaning about TA being disapointing, hey tough. Wait a year and they´ll record a new, probably more regular ´metal´ record. Or not. This is the Astonishing. It is what it is. And I happen to think it´s pretty nifty.
Pretty much this.

I had no idea what I was going to go see when I bought the ticket other than DT was trying their hand at something more along the lines of a musical in concept. I'd heard "Gift of Music" and that's about it.

But I like this band not for what I want them to do.

I like them because they do what THEY want to do... and they do it in a way that I enjoy. Heavy, fast, slow, technical, melodic... doesn't matter to me. They somehow nail it for me every time. The fact that their albums are different is even better. 'cause there's a DT album for any occasion.

Now I've got one for when I feel like a grandiose musical!  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jsbru on February 08, 2016, 12:06:25 PM
Maybe "filler" isn't the right word, but the middle of Act II is a somewhat long span of nothing musically remarkable.  If you look at the "favorite song" poll on this forum, there's a big gap here, too, so it's not just me.

At this point, you've been listening to the same style of rock opera music for an hour and a half.  It would have been the perfect opportunity to throw in a curve ball and make Machine Chatter into a full-length song, maybe throw in some ambient guitar for some texture, etc.  I feel like I am just starting to get into the groove when it ends abruptly.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 08, 2016, 12:09:14 PM
Maybe "filler" isn't the right word, but the middle of Act II is a somewhat long span of nothing musically remarkable.  If you look at the "favorite song" poll on this forum, there's a big gap here, too, so it's not just me.

At this point, you've been listening to the same style of rock opera music for an hour and a half.  It would have been the perfect opportunity to throw in a curve ball and make Machine Chatter into a full-length song, maybe throw in some ambient guitar for some texture, etc.  I feel like I am just starting to get into the groove when it ends abruptly.
I do kind of agree with you there.

I think that's why "Our New World" stands out so much. At least for me it does. After that whole middle and climax, a (pretty much) straight forward, anthemic rock song with with a good hook and something you can really bob your head with was refreshing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 08, 2016, 12:13:02 PM
People seem to find it difficult to know which character is saying which lines, I don't have that problem cause I've sat with the lyrics all the way through the album on my first listen and haven't had any problems identifying who's talking on subsequent listens, but on the other hand the way the booklet was done with the glue and lack of lyrics on official website made it inconvenient for a lot of people to read the lyrics while listening. Some of us here were lucky cause pringkaarwanda transcribed them from the booklet and posted them here.
I think this album requires some initial time investment and patience to absorb but it's so rewarding, I'm have a metal background as well and I understand what the people who miss that aspect in the album are coming from but I also feel like that heavy aggressive emotion that metal fans get from speed and riffage can also be obtained from immersing yourself in the story and the melodies of this album, I'm very content with that.
Can't say it enough; I absolutely love The Astonishing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 08, 2016, 12:16:46 PM
I agree. It's very easy to tell. This album pretty much soaked in on the first couple listens.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 08, 2016, 12:17:09 PM
Exactly my thoughts! coming from a fellow metalhead as well.

Also, I join in thanking very much the transcribers of the lyrics!!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on February 08, 2016, 12:19:10 PM
Some of us here were lucky cause pringkaarwanda transcribed them from the booklet and posted them here.


Did he do that? I thought he just posted the link he got from reddit
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on February 08, 2016, 12:20:27 PM
Getting a bit tired of reading

" Astonishing is shit because there's no metal on it ".

If you want every album to be the fuking same heavy shit - go listen to Slayer. :facepalm:


My God. I'm so glad Dream Theater exists. They don't make the exact same album every two years and they stick their necks on the line every once in a while.

Kerry King hasn't got the guts to make anything other than a generic thrash album with lyrics about satan and auschwitz.

He wouldn't dare.  He'd be terrified of not looking like tr00 methulz

fucking this
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 08, 2016, 12:48:29 PM
If anyone says something along of lines of "this album is shit because of the lack of [insert genre name here]," then I can't take any of their opinions seriously.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 08, 2016, 12:49:02 PM
Maybe "filler" isn't the right word, but the middle of Act II is a somewhat long span of nothing musically remarkable.  If you look at the "favorite song" poll on this forum, there's a big gap here, too, so it's not just me.

At this point, you've been listening to the same style of rock opera music for an hour and a half.  It would have been the perfect opportunity to throw in a curve ball and make Machine Chatter into a full-length song, maybe throw in some ambient guitar for some texture, etc.  I feel like I am just starting to get into the groove when it ends abruptly.
I think I disagree, but I want to check what you mean by "middle of Act II". I think the run from Path That Divides through to My Last Farewell is fantastic, both musically and narratively (though the two are of course related). The few songs after that are a bit more middle-of-the-road, but I would have said that's towards the end of the Act.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 08, 2016, 12:50:22 PM
Anybody else find it absolutely hilarious that a bunch of casuals are gonna be buying tickets to see Petrucci shred a night of hard metal, only to be greeted by 2 hours of a ballad heavy sci-fi version of an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical?

It's awesome.

Dream Theater are big, but not THAT big to the point that people know about them from the past and go to see them "because it's Dream Theater". I think their fanbase is dedicated enough to know what's going on with the band and be prepared.

I don't think there will be a case like Iron Maiden in 2006, with people deciding to go to see the mighty Maiden they saw back in the '80s, thinking "Surely I will hear Run to the Hills and The Trooper", and getting the whole new album (new by then) front to back.
Yeah, I mean it was very clear in the marketing and when buying tickets that this was DT presents The Astonishing. I can see that some people might have had a friend or relative say "want to come see DT" and they go "yeah!" and therefore don't know, but for most if they're not aware, then they really weren't paying attention.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 08, 2016, 12:50:32 PM
It seems that most people have disliked the middle of Act II, but that's honestly probably my favorite series of songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 08, 2016, 12:53:52 PM
People seem to find it difficult to know which character is saying which lines, I don't have that problem cause I've sat with the lyrics all the way through the album on my first listen and haven't had any problems identifying who's talking on subsequent listens...

I still have not done that.  But I did read the summaries on DT.net, which give a great overview of the story itself.  And I have found that with that knowledge alone, combined with James' voice inflection changes when he is changing characters, it usually isn't difficult to figure out who is speaking at any given point in the story, with just a few exceptions.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 08, 2016, 12:58:00 PM
It seems to be pretty intuitive figuring out which character is singing during a given song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 08, 2016, 12:58:51 PM
I read the lyrics.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on February 08, 2016, 01:07:07 PM
There's plenty of heavy guitar on this album. Are people on crack?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 08, 2016, 01:10:19 PM
Can you imagine the tedium if this album was 130 minutes of " This Dying Soul " ?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 08, 2016, 01:14:07 PM
There's plenty of heavy guitar on this album. Are people on crack?

Well, not right now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Scorpion on February 08, 2016, 01:15:20 PM
Can you imagine the tedium if this album was 130 minutes of " This Dying Soul " ?

Well, things could always be worse. :P

Joking aside, I like most of the album and love about one hour of it. So the batting average isn't too bad, but still. It's just exhausting to listen to, I find, and the run of songs between Heaven's Cove and Hymn of a Thousand Voices just runs together too much imho.

That said, songs like Three Days, A New Beginning and Our New World are some of the best that they have written in years. And also I am really glad that they made this album, because it shows that they are - as a band - unafraid of taking risks and regardless of the outcome, that is something that I will always applaud.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on February 08, 2016, 01:22:56 PM
There's plenty of heavy guitar on this album. Are people on crack?

The Hashtonishing
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 08, 2016, 01:28:57 PM
I wonder how a song like Three Days would have been welcomed on a regular DT album. You know, a "standard" DT album like the first two with Mangini, and then a song goes batshit insane with its style and those jazz incursions.

For me, I would have loved it, I wish more bands would have the odd, crazy songs here and there, completely unlikely anything they've ever done.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RuRoRul on February 08, 2016, 01:29:35 PM
Can you imagine the tedium if this album was 130 minutes of " This Dying Soul " ?
If they managed to make 130 minutes of music up to the quality of one of their best songs, it would be a pretty good album indeed  :P

Plus, considering it's been a while since they have done a particularly heavy album, it'd still be a nice bit of variety in DT's discography.

But then of course, disliking that hypothetical album due to it lacking in softer stuff would be completely valid, while it's OK to give people shit for disliking The Astonishing if they find it lacking in the metal side (which is as much a part of DT's history as anything else).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RuRoRul on February 08, 2016, 01:31:53 PM
I wonder how a song like Three Days would have been welcomed on a regular DT album. You know, a "standard" DT album like the first two with Mangini, and then a song goes batshit insane with its style and those jazz incursions.

For me, I would have loved it, I wish more bands would have the odd, crazy songs here and there, completely unlikely anything they've ever done.
The song is great but it is hard to see it working as well without having lyrics that are part of a story to really commit to. A random "villain song" on an album of otherwise unrelated songs would definitely be a bit weird, but the random styles of music wouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: me7 on February 08, 2016, 01:32:04 PM
There's plenty of heavy guitar on this album. Are people on crack?
But the guitar isn't the loudest entity in the mix and the master isn't brickwalled until the loud guitar obliterates any sonic details from the other instruments. This isn't how DT albums sounded for the past ten years.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jdprsaga on February 08, 2016, 01:35:04 PM
Dream Theater really needs to make our new World their next single, make a hopeful video of people helping other people when in despair and this song can easily be a major hit!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on February 08, 2016, 01:36:38 PM
There's plenty of heavy guitar on this album. Are people on crack?

The Hashtonishing

Those were the days - smoking hash in the dorm - 1977 rocked
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 08, 2016, 01:37:19 PM
Dream Theater really needs to make our new World their next single, make a hopeful video of people helping other people when in despair and this song can easily be a major hit!

They aren't planning on releasing any singles from this album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 08, 2016, 01:38:09 PM
Dream Theater really needs to make our new World their next single, make a hopeful video of people helping other people when in despair and this song can easily be a major hit!

They aren't planning on releasing any singles from this album.



:(
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jdprsaga on February 08, 2016, 01:38:38 PM
Dream Theater really needs to make our new World their next single, make a hopeful video of people helping other people when in despair and this song can easily be a major hit!

They aren't planning on releasing any singles from this album.

I know.. but IMO they should
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 08, 2016, 01:39:45 PM
There's plenty of heavy guitar on this album. Are people on crack?

The Hashtonishing

Those were the days - smoking hash in the dorm - 1977 rocked

The Way It Used To Be?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 08, 2016, 01:40:20 PM
But then of course, disliking that hypothetical album due to it lacking in softer stuff would be completely valid, while it's OK to give people shit for disliking The Astonishing if they find it lacking in the metal side (which is as much a part of DT's history as anything else).
Well no, the problem wouldn't be a lack of softer stuff (I like plenty of albums with no soft songs whatsoever) but everything being the same style. I think that's what Kotow was getting at. I know for a fact that he likes heavy music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on February 08, 2016, 01:46:28 PM
There's plenty of heavy guitar on this album. Are people on crack?

The Hashtonishing

Those were the days - smoking hash in the dorm - 1977 rocked

Oh yeah! I remember those times, back when I was -13 years old  :neverusethis:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 08, 2016, 01:53:48 PM
You're 26 ? :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lax on February 08, 2016, 01:55:42 PM
We are all together but there are clans, from ladyboys to hairy metalheads, next album will be so metal people will complain that it miss subtility, and the next one will be too short and the next one will have too long songs...
I am amazed how much time is spent on trying to justify why TA should be a bad album but we are not talking about bad radio one hit wonders, we are talking about albums that are masterpieces and impossible to listen for mere mortals.
To each their own :)
I respect thought an album may not be the one for you
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 08, 2016, 01:56:23 PM
It seems to be pretty intuitive figuring out which character is singing during a given song.

Well, one instance that comes to mind is "In peace, we gather here today", which Arhys said in response to Nafaryus asking them to carry on with Gabriel's singing in the square event, to which Daryus responds "Don’t make him ask again", it plays like "Show us what we’ve heard so much about? In peace, we gather here today, Don’t make him ask again", I imagine a listener without lyrics would be confused for a second.
Arabelle has few lines here and there but I feel like she always comes out of nowhere and it's not easy to figure out it's her instantly.

Some of us here were lucky cause pringkaarwanda transcribed them from the booklet and posted them here.


Did he do that? I thought he just posted the link he got from reddit

I think you're right, he just corrected the mistakes he found on the reddit version. I wouldn't have found it otherwise though; I took the file he posted, converted it to pdf and read while I listened on my first full play through that Friday.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on February 08, 2016, 01:57:05 PM
You're 26 ? :)

Not yet. I'm still a quarter of a century old.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Luoto on February 08, 2016, 01:57:25 PM
So... anyone been to the Catskill Mountains?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Estiui on February 08, 2016, 02:19:27 PM
I wonder how can anyone dislike Three Days. Those progressions, those lyrics, that chorus  :metal, that ragtime  :hefdaddy, that swing blast beat  :millahhhh My God, the best 4 minutes DT's written for many, many years.

Also, I don't understand those people who want plain metal albums from a progressive band. Actually, what I expect from progressive bands is to mix different kind of musics, to bring unexpected things in their music, to not fit a standard style... well, I enjoy music in general, and I love different kinds of music mixing up, like in Three Days or Lord Nafaryus.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 08, 2016, 02:21:52 PM
It seems to be pretty intuitive figuring out which character is singing during a given song.

Well, one instance that comes to mind is "In peace, we gather here today", which Arhys said in response to Nafaryus asking them to carry on with Gabriel's singing in the square event, to which Daryus responds "Don’t make him ask again", it plays like "Show us what we’ve heard so much about? In peace, we gather here today, Don’t make him ask again", I imagine a listener without lyrics would be confused for a second.
Arabelle has few lines here and there but I feel like she always comes out of nowhere and it's not easy to figure out it's her instantly.
Agreed. Once reading the lyrics through and paying attention, it's easy enough to remember. But it's definitely not that easy to get each line from just listening through.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 08, 2016, 02:27:06 PM
It seems to be pretty intuitive figuring out which character is singing during a given song.

Well, one instance that comes to mind is "In peace, we gather here today", which Arhys said in response to Nafaryus asking them to carry on with Gabriel's singing in the square event, to which Daryus responds "Don’t make him ask again", it plays like "Show us what we’ve heard so much about? In peace, we gather here today, Don’t make him ask again", I imagine a listener without lyrics would be confused for a second.
Arabelle has few lines here and there but I feel like she always comes out of nowhere and it's not easy to figure out it's her instantly.
Agreed. Once reading the lyrics through and paying attention, it's easy enough to remember. But it's definitely not that easy to get each line from just listening through.
Admittedly, as a victim of ITUNES and their "Not gonna give you any artwork" purchase...

I had no freakin clue what was going on in most of the songs until I finally read the transcribed lyrics o.o

Got the general jist, but not the details or the real story.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jsbru on February 08, 2016, 02:36:34 PM
I think I disagree, but I want to check what you mean by "middle of Act II". I think the run from Path That Divides through to My Last Farewell is fantastic, both musically and narratively (though the two are of course related). The few songs after that are a bit more middle-of-the-road, but I would have said that's towards the end of the Act.
[/quote]

I was thinking all the way from Heaven's Cove to Whispers on the Wind...it's not as if there's no beautiful passages in that span (there are plenty), but it's more like just a ton of story-telling tracks back-to-back that don't stand out from the rest of the album, or aren't really stand-alone songs either, the way that A New Beginning, A Life Left Behind, Our New World, Moment of Betrayal, Three Days, The Gift of Music, etc. do.  I think just one good stand-alone song in there would made it a little more interesting.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jsbru on February 08, 2016, 02:38:00 PM
It seems that most people have disliked the middle of Act II, but that's honestly probably my favorite series of songs.

I wouldn't say that I dislike it...it's just that it gets a little slow.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jsbru on February 08, 2016, 02:42:53 PM
It seems to be pretty intuitive figuring out which character is singing during a given song.

I can't really tell when he's changing characters when I'm listening to it.  But I brought it over to my friend's house this weekend, as he and his wife like more clasically-inspired rock music (the are both big Muse fans, but they've always been open to listening to DT, and while they don't go by the albums, they enjoy it when I am over and play it)--and she could tell right away without even knowing much about the plot when James was singing the female versus male lines.  I thought it was amazing, because I being the DT aficionado and being well-versed in the plot, still couldn't tell which character was singing without reading the lyric book.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RuRoRul on February 08, 2016, 03:18:24 PM
I read through the booklet lyrics on first listen (annoying as it was given the packaging), which was enough to get the story in one go (apart from a couple of things only described on their site such as Daryus's deafness, exactly what "Bug" is...). Normally the vocals in combination with listening to the lyrics and having a basic understanding of who the characters are is enough to tell who is meant to be speaking, but in some cases the lyric booklet is probably necessary to tell, and there is virtually no way to tell just from the vocals alone, and you need to go by the lyrics. For example, in what I would call the second and third "chorus" of A New Beginning (although the lyrics are different each time), there is little if any difference in the vocals to distinguish between Faythe and Arabelle and then Faythe and Nafaryus. But for most extended sections from one character, it does a good job of making it feel different.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 08, 2016, 03:37:04 PM
I read through the booklet lyrics on first listen (annoying as it was given the packaging), which was enough to get the story in one go (apart from a couple of things only described on their site such as Daryus's deafness, exactly what "Bug" is...).

Yep, these two things and also the mechanics of what the plans were at Heaven's Cove, without the website we don't know why Faythe and Gabriel were to show up there earlier than the time they're supposed to meet the emperor, I got hung up on that for a while. Also that Arhys made sure not to tell Daryus that the emperor has agreed to meet with Gabriel, at the same place on the same night, actually as I typed this I still feel there's a bit of oddness in the whole intersecting plans of Heaven's Cove, so what I can gather from it is that Arhys did not believe Gabriel would manage to convince the emperor of peaceful resolve and so he thought he'd at least get something back from Gabriel's death by doing the trade off with Daryus.. does that sound right?
One thing not even explained in the website is whether or not Xander was kidnapped, the lyrics clearly state that he followed his father to Heaven's Cove so why was he worried about his life? And why did Daryus threaten him with his son's life? The only answer I can think of is that Arhys never had much faith in the outcome of the entire empire/rebels conflict and thought if push comes to shove Xander will die because the rebels will be defeated and Ravenskill will burn.. dunno.
EDIT: None of this seems characteristic of Arhys, that's another reason why it seems odd.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 08, 2016, 03:39:37 PM
Also, didn't Gabriel say the Noise Machines would be quiet that night, yet they appear right after The Path That Divides.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 08, 2016, 03:39:47 PM
If I remember correctly I had this approach:

First listening: read the lyrics
Second listening: focused only on the music
Third listening: read the lyrics again
Fourth listening: reading not the lyrics but the song descriptions of the site.

That gave me quite a good understanding, then for all the little details there's this forum  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 08, 2016, 04:03:31 PM
The last vocal passage in A New Beginning is one where the character changes midway through the verse, and it's not immediately obvious unless you read the lyric book and get used to the idea.

Faythe: Now you understand why I was hiding...
Nafaryus: I will grant the chance for a new beginning...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 08, 2016, 04:15:05 PM
If I remember correctly I had this approach:

First listening: read the lyrics
Second listening: focused only on the music
Third listening: read the lyrics again
Fourth listening: reading not the lyrics but the song descriptions of the site.

That gave me quite a good understanding, then for all the little details there's this forum  :biggrin:

That's the perfect approach IMO, only I reversed your second and third steps cause I'm a sucker for concept albums, mainly for seeing the craft that comes out of a talented song writer trying to put a lengthy story with details into music form.


Also, didn't Gabriel say the Noise Machines would be quiet that night, yet they appear right after The Path That Divides.

YES! Not just after The Path That Divides but they can also be clearly heard at the beginning of that very song! that's one thing I forgot to mention up there; why did he say the NOMAC's were "laying still"? the emperor didn't agree to that when he agreed to meet Gabriel, but also it contradicts what I felt was the whole point of going to Heaven's Cove which is to be away from the NOMAC's sounds and influence, which-stay with me here- brings us to the big elephant in the room; the nature and patterns of the NOMAC's presence, are they patrolling or are they always around? The scenes from the trailer drives me to believe there is hundreds, if not thousands, of them, so they don't take breaks or go in for maintenance or generally be in any situation where they're simply off.
Maybe they only patrol populated places and that's why Heaven's Cove was perfect for the meeting, but then Gabriel saying they "the noise machines lie still tonight" doesn't make sense.
Look at this.. DT you bring out the nerd in my soul :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on February 08, 2016, 04:33:55 PM
Is anyone else interested to see how the band will pull off all the added instruments/orchestra and choir parts?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 08, 2016, 04:36:06 PM
Is anyone else interested to see how the band will pull off all the added instruments/orchestra and choir parts?


• Play to a click track.

• Play the tracks over the PA.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 08, 2016, 04:54:27 PM
Is anyone else interested to see how the band will pull off all the added instruments/orchestra and choir parts?


• Play to a click track.

• Play the tracks over the PA.

Don't think they'll do either of these. They've always been a band that does everything between the 5 of them. And Jordan LOVES mucking about with tons of patches and samples. Bet he's just lusting over using all his gadgets to fill in the blanks.

It will probably be a bit thinner, but I doubt there's going to be a magical Choir or Orchestra that appears out of the speakers during the performance. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chego_voice on February 08, 2016, 05:01:37 PM
Hey people! this is me singing MOB! Would you check it out????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzWQPUOOeU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzWQPUOOeU)

I'm so happy! :metal

Great job!  When doing DT covers, I think the vocalist almost always has the greatest challenge.  Very few people can sing with authority in the range James sings in.

Is there music/tabs available for this already, or did you guys all do it by ear?  I'm trying to learn the Our New World solo on guitar, but can't figure out those sweep-picking arpeggios, etc.  No tab so far in the usual spots online.

Everything was learned by ear my friend! a hard work but was really fun! Thanks for your kind words!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jsbru on February 08, 2016, 05:02:22 PM
I have no idea how Jordan is going to play all the brass/symphony/choir/keyboard parts at once, especially because there's sometimes like three parts at a time.

Maybe the real astonishing thing is that Kevin Moore will return to play extra keyboards for the tour!  :hat




Yes, that's dope the smiley is smoking...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 08, 2016, 05:03:33 PM
Is anyone else interested to see how the band will pull off all the added instruments/orchestra and choir parts?


• Play to a click track.

• Play the tracks over the PA.

Don't think they'll do either of these. They've always been a band that does everything between the 5 of them. And Jordan LOVES mucking about with tons of patches and samples. Bet he's just lusting over using all his gadgets to fill in the blanks.

It will probably be a bit thinner, but I doubt there's going to be a magical Choir or Orchestra that appears out of the speakers during the performance. 

Um, no.  On the last tour, they played to a click track and piped in backing vocals and instrumentation. 

Because they have done that in the past, it is HIGHLY likely they will do it again on this tour.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 08, 2016, 05:10:01 PM

Don't think they'll do either of these. They've always been a band that does everything between the 5 of them.

Um, no.  On the last tour, they played to a click track and piped in backing vocals and instrumentation. 

Because they have done that in the past, it is HIGHLY likely they will do it again on this tour.



:lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on February 08, 2016, 05:18:59 PM
JP said in guitar world magazine that the orchestral and choir tracks will be playing along with the click track. He said they have to get it perfect or it could go awry..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 08, 2016, 05:21:22 PM
There's plenty of heavy guitar on this album. Are people on crack?
There's a LOT of 7 string, too.
People seem to find it difficult to know which character is saying which lines, I don't have that problem cause I've sat with the lyrics all the way through the album on my first listen and haven't had any problems identifying who's talking on subsequent listens...

I still have not done that.  But I did read the summaries on DT.net, which give a great overview of the story itself.  And I have found that with that knowledge alone, combined with James' voice inflection changes when he is changing characters, it usually isn't difficult to figure out who is speaking at any given point in the story, with just a few exceptions.
This is exactly what I did. The song summaries/explanations on the website are insanely helpful in understanding the story.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on February 08, 2016, 06:57:05 PM
One thing not even explained in the website is whether or not Xander was kidnapped, the lyrics clearly state that he followed his father to Heaven's Cove so why was he worried about his life? And why did Daryus threaten him with his son's life?

Well, the way I see it, had Xander been kidnapped by Daryus, Arhys wouldn't have stayed all night in his home (which the track description for "A Tempting Offer" makes me believe he did). Knowing who Arhys is, I guess he would have chased Daryus and get his son back. So, in my opinion: no, he wasn't kidnapped.

Regarding the second question: I don't think Daryus threatened Arhys with Xander's life. From what I've read, Daryus offer was:

A. for the Empire to have Gabriel and for Xander to have a better life, or
B. for the Empire to try having Gabriel and for Xander to remain as is,

Daryus did threaten to kill Xander, but that was once Arhys was dead and Xander appeared out of nowhere surprising the Prince. I guess he threaten to kill him so there'd be no witness to the crime. He would have had to act fast to cover up - I think that there still was time  ;)

Anyway, that's all speculation, and maybe I'm forgetting a bit of text, so be sure to correct me if I'm missing something!

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 08, 2016, 07:02:16 PM
Is anyone else interested to see how the band will pull off all the added instruments/orchestra and choir parts?


• Play to a click track.

• Play the tracks over the PA.

Don't think they'll do either of these. They've always been a band that does everything between the 5 of them. And Jordan LOVES mucking about with tons of patches and samples. Bet he's just lusting over using all his gadgets to fill in the blanks.

It will probably be a bit thinner, but I doubt there's going to be a magical Choir or Orchestra that appears out of the speakers during the performance. 

Um, no.  On the last tour, they played to a click track and piped in backing vocals and instrumentation. 

Because they have done that in the past, it is HIGHLY likely they will do it again on this tour.
*shrugs*

We'll all find out at some point then, won't we?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on February 08, 2016, 07:08:14 PM
YES! Not just after The Path That Divides but they can also be clearly heard at the beginning of that very song! that's one thing I forgot to mention up there; why did he say the NOMAC's were "laying still"? the emperor didn't agree to that when he agreed to meet Gabriel, but also it contradicts what I felt was the whole point of going to Heaven's Cove which is to be away from the NOMAC's sounds and influence, which-stay with me here- brings us to the big elephant in the room; the nature and patterns of the NOMAC's presence, are they patrolling or are they always around? The scenes from the trailer drives me to believe there is hundreds, if not thousands, of them, so they don't take breaks or go in for maintenance or generally be in any situation where they're simply off.
Maybe they only patrol populated places and that's why Heaven's Cove was perfect for the meeting, but then Gabriel saying they "the noise machines lie still tonight" doesn't make sense.

Well, maybe the NOMACs did patrol in Heaven's Cove too, and would have been 'turned off' by Nafaryus during Faythe's and Gabriel's song, but not before. I guess that's why their music can be heard in both "The Path That Divides" and "Machine Chatter" - neither the Emperor/Arabelle nor Faythe/Gabriel had arrived at Heaven's Cove by that time, so the NOMACs were still normally functioning.

I've been thinking about these details for a couple of days. It still isn't clear to me what are all of their purposes, or how do people hear their music (in the first e-mail sent by Nafaryus, he talked about "transmitters inside of the flesh", and Arhys says in his first e-mail that his people had managed to "biohack" them, but there is nothing about this, either in the lyrics or in the track descriptions).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: LCArenas on February 08, 2016, 07:15:51 PM
The intro to A Savior in the Square, mane

THE FUCKING GUITAR MANE
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on February 08, 2016, 07:22:44 PM
Is anyone else interested to see how the band will pull off all the added instruments/orchestra and choir parts?


• Play to a click track.

• Play the tracks over the PA.

Don't think they'll do either of these. They've always been a band that does everything between the 5 of them. And Jordan LOVES mucking about with tons of patches and samples. Bet he's just lusting over using all his gadgets to fill in the blanks.

It will probably be a bit thinner, but I doubt there's going to be a magical Choir or Orchestra that appears out of the speakers during the performance. 

Um, no.  On the last tour, they played to a click track and piped in backing vocals and instrumentation. 

Because they have done that in the past, it is HIGHLY likely they will do it again on this tour.
*shrugs*

We'll all find out at some point then, won't we?

But why would you think they wouldn't do it? That's what they did (barring 1 show) with Illumination theory. Another song with an orchestra and stuff. So it's what they've been doing it for the past few tours. Why would you assume they'd stop?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on February 08, 2016, 07:57:12 PM
There's plenty of heavy guitar on this album. Are people on crack?
There's a LOT of 7 string, too.
Well, there's definitely an imbalance of heavy and lighter stuff, so I think people are just confusing that with there being 'no heavy sections or songs'.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 08, 2016, 07:57:43 PM
One thing not even explained in the website is whether or not Xander was kidnapped, the lyrics clearly state that he followed his father to Heaven's Cove so why was he worried about his life? And why did Daryus threaten him with his son's life?

Well, the way I see it, had Xander been kidnapped by Daryus, Arhys wouldn't have stayed all night in his home (which the track description for "A Tempting Offer" makes me believe he did). Knowing who Arhys is, I guess he would have chased Daryus and get his son back. So, in my opinion: no, he wasn't kidnapped.

Regarding the second question: I don't think Daryus threatened Arhys with Xander's life. From what I've read, Daryus offer was:

A. for the Empire to have Gabriel and for Xander to have a better life, or
B. for the Empire to try having Gabriel and for Xander to remain as is,

Daryus did threaten to kill Xander, but that was once Arhys was dead and Xander appeared out of nowhere surprising the Prince. I guess he threaten to kill him so there'd be no witness to the crime. He would have had to act fast to cover up - I think that there still was time  ;)

Anyway, that's all speculation, and maybe I'm forgetting a bit of text, so be sure to correct me if I'm missing something!

Daryus threatened to kill Xander on Tempting Offer, at least that's what this stand off insinuated:

Quote
[Arhys]
How dare you step inside my home?!
[Daryus]
His life is in my hands!
[Arhys]
You monster, leave my son alone!
[Daryus]
You do know who I am
Your love for him is strong
[Arhys]
He’s just a boy
He’s done no wrong
This fight’s not his to lose


Daryus offer was life and riches to Xander and also I don't think Daryus cares if he was found after he killed the leader of the rebellion and his son, it's not like they have a parliament or public opinion, he's the the emperor's son in a dictatorship, he's essentially Kim Jong-un :lol
 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on February 08, 2016, 08:52:16 PM
Daryus threatened to kill Xander on Tempting Offer, at least that's what this stand off insinuated:

You're right, sorry. I forgot about that part.

Daryus offer was life and riches to Xander and also I don't think Daryus cares if he was found after he killed the leader of the rebellion and his son, it's not like they have a parliament or public opinion, he's the the emperor's son in a dictatorship, he's essentially Kim Jong-un :lol

Good point; although I also don't get what other reason he would have for killing the boy. Maybe he was overpowered by his aggresive instincts that very moment?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 08, 2016, 09:02:45 PM
There was no threat to Xander. There was only a tempting offer to give him a better life. Which actually makes Arhys' decision more morally ambiguous (and makes him a better-writtem amd well-rounded character).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 08, 2016, 09:09:55 PM
Is anyone else interested to see how the band will pull off all the added instruments/orchestra and choir parts?


• Play to a click track.

• Play the tracks over the PA.

Don't think they'll do either of these. They've always been a band that does everything between the 5 of them. And Jordan LOVES mucking about with tons of patches and samples. Bet he's just lusting over using all his gadgets to fill in the blanks.

It will probably be a bit thinner, but I doubt there's going to be a magical Choir or Orchestra that appears out of the speakers during the performance. 

Um, no.  On the last tour, they played to a click track and piped in backing vocals and instrumentation. 

Because they have done that in the past, it is HIGHLY likely they will do it again on this tour.

I think I read somewhere they'd be doing the orchestra with backing track, which is good because JR also has complex piano parts to handle as well under most of the orchestral stuff.
And I expect the NOMAC tracks will be from tape too, to give a slight breather, and also so they could sync up video work closely with those.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 08, 2016, 09:16:56 PM
YES! Not just after The Path That Divides but they can also be clearly heard at the beginning of that very song! that's one thing I forgot to mention up there; why did he say the NOMAC's were "laying still"? the emperor didn't agree to that when he agreed to meet Gabriel, but also it contradicts what I felt was the whole point of going to Heaven's Cove which is to be away from the NOMAC's sounds and influence, which-stay with me here- brings us to the big elephant in the room; the nature and patterns of the NOMAC's presence, are they patrolling or are they always around? The scenes from the trailer drives me to believe there is hundreds, if not thousands, of them, so they don't take breaks or go in for maintenance or generally be in any situation where they're simply off.
Maybe they only patrol populated places and that's why Heaven's Cove was perfect for the meeting, but then Gabriel saying they "the noise machines lie still tonight" doesn't make sense.

Well, maybe the NOMACs did patrol in Heaven's Cove too, and would have been 'turned off' by Nafaryus during Faythe's and Gabriel's song, but not before. I guess that's why their music can be heard in both "The Path That Divides" and "Machine Chatter" - neither the Emperor/Arabelle nor Faythe/Gabriel had arrived at Heaven's Cove by that time, so the NOMACs were still normally functioning.

I've been thinking about these details for a couple of days. It still isn't clear to me what are all of their purposes, or how do people hear their music (in the first e-mail sent by Nafaryus, he talked about "transmitters inside of the flesh", and Arhys says in his first e-mail that his people had managed to "biohack" them, but there is nothing about this, either in the lyrics or in the track descriptions).

Or maybe there are NOMACS that accompany Daryus. They always appear near songs where he had major scenes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 08, 2016, 10:30:05 PM
I love the recurring character themes and motifs throughout the whole thing. Very John Wiliams-esque, if you ask me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lax on February 09, 2016, 12:03:16 AM
Or maybe there are NOMACS that accompany Daryus. They always appear near songs where he had major scenes.
+1000

For the live show, the last times I saw them, they played recorded parts of songs, especially intros (which is totally right for bridges in the sky), was just shocking for the root of all evil.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on February 09, 2016, 12:24:56 AM
YES! Not just after The Path That Divides but they can also be clearly heard at the beginning of that very song! that's one thing I forgot to mention up there; why did he say the NOMAC's were "laying still"? the emperor didn't agree to that when he agreed to meet Gabriel, but also it contradicts what I felt was the whole point of going to Heaven's Cove which is to be away from the NOMAC's sounds and influence, which-stay with me here- brings us to the big elephant in the room; the nature and patterns of the NOMAC's presence, are they patrolling or are they always around? The scenes from the trailer drives me to believe there is hundreds, if not thousands, of them, so they don't take breaks or go in for maintenance or generally be in any situation where they're simply off.
Maybe they only patrol populated places and that's why Heaven's Cove was perfect for the meeting, but then Gabriel saying they "the noise machines lie still tonight" doesn't make sense.

Well, maybe the NOMACs did patrol in Heaven's Cove too, and would have been 'turned off' by Nafaryus during Faythe's and Gabriel's song, but not before. I guess that's why their music can be heard in both "The Path That Divides" and "Machine Chatter" - neither the Emperor/Arabelle nor Faythe/Gabriel had arrived at Heaven's Cove by that time, so the NOMACs were still normally functioning.

I've been thinking about these details for a couple of days. It still isn't clear to me what are all of their purposes, or how do people hear their music (in the first e-mail sent by Nafaryus, he talked about "transmitters inside of the flesh", and Arhys says in his first e-mail that his people had managed to "biohack" them, but there is nothing about this, either in the lyrics or in the track descriptions).

Or maybe there are NOMACS that accompany Daryus. They always appear near songs where he had major scenes.
These discussions are freak in GREAT!  Only Dream Theater fans would delve into the details and Take The Time to discuss and help each other understand the story better. :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on February 09, 2016, 02:35:32 AM
I can't believe I'm not reading more about Heaven's Cove. My god, that tension building, the eerie keyboards, then the heavy guitars come in...then the end with the gentle piano....it's really four minutes of perfection to me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Vandalism on February 09, 2016, 02:37:45 AM
^ THIS!

Beautiful use of the seaboard as well and that riff!  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lax on February 09, 2016, 03:27:04 AM
Heaven's cove is in my top 5, Tristram meets a great heavy second part ! And the keyboard after the 12 string arppegio is splendid
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on February 09, 2016, 04:07:15 AM
Is anyone else interested to see how the band will pull off all the added instruments/orchestra and choir parts?


• Play to a click track.

• Play the tracks over the PA.

Don't think they'll do either of these. They've always been a band that does everything between the 5 of them. And Jordan LOVES mucking about with tons of patches and samples. Bet he's just lusting over using all his gadgets to fill in the blanks.

It will probably be a bit thinner, but I doubt there's going to be a magical Choir or Orchestra that appears out of the speakers during the performance. 

Um, no.  On the last tour, they played to a click track and piped in backing vocals and instrumentation. 

Because they have done that in the past, it is HIGHLY likely they will do it again on this tour.
*shrugs*

We'll all find out at some point then, won't we?

But why would you think they wouldn't do it? That's what they did (barring 1 show) with Illumination theory. Another song with an orchestra and stuff. So it's what they've been doing it for the past few tours. Why would you assume they'd stop?

For me there's a big difference between a few minutes of one song and 90% of songs during a 2 and a half hour performance. I'm just thinking it could be a LOT of pressure
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on February 09, 2016, 04:12:27 AM
Not sure if this JR interview was posted here yet. Caught it on MP forums.

https://drownedinsound.com/in_depth/4149776-jordan-rudess-of-dream-theater-on-working-with-david-bowie-and-new-album-the-astonishing
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on February 09, 2016, 04:28:04 AM
The Astonishing entered at # 4 in the Dutch Top 100 albums. Great accomplishment!  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 09, 2016, 05:01:29 AM
Nothing about the Billboard placing yet ? ::)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 09, 2016, 05:11:36 AM
Dream Theater really needs to make our new World their next single, make a hopeful video of people helping other people when in despair and this song can easily be a major hit!

They aren't planning on releasing any singles from this album.

Except The Gift Of Music.

" it wasn't a single "

Released on iTunes, Had an official Music Video.

it's a single.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gromit1710 on February 09, 2016, 05:44:10 AM
Is anyone else interested to see how the band will pull off all the added instruments/orchestra and choir parts?


• Play to a click track.

• Play the tracks over the PA.

Don't think they'll do either of these. They've always been a band that does everything between the 5 of them. And Jordan LOVES mucking about with tons of patches and samples. Bet he's just lusting over using all his gadgets to fill in the blanks.

It will probably be a bit thinner, but I doubt there's going to be a magical Choir or Orchestra that appears out of the speakers during the performance. 

Um, no.  On the last tour, they played to a click track and piped in backing vocals and instrumentation. 

Because they have done that in the past, it is HIGHLY likely they will do it again on this tour.
*shrugs*

We'll all find out at some point then, won't we?

But why would you think they wouldn't do it? That's what they did (barring 1 show) with Illumination theory. Another song with an orchestra and stuff. So it's what they've been doing it for the past few tours. Why would you assume they'd stop?

For me there's a big difference between a few minutes of one song and 90% of songs during a 2 and a half hour performance. I'm just thinking it could be a LOT of pressure
Pretty much my thoughts on the matter as well. All the times I've seen them, never heard them make widespread use of click tracks and tapes other than intro stuff and random patches during a rare song here and there. Much less a 2 hour long performance. Even on the SFAM tour, I don't recall them using a backing track for the chorus on SCO, a song that used the most obvious choir arrangement up until TA and would have been easy to do so.

But what do I know? Certainly not enough to debate it like it matters. Going to enjoy the show regardless.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 09, 2016, 05:46:37 AM
It seems to be pretty intuitive figuring out which character is singing during a given song.

Well, one instance that comes to mind is "In peace, we gather here today", which Arhys said in response to Nafaryus asking them to carry on with Gabriel's singing in the square event, to which Daryus responds "Don’t make him ask again", it plays like "Show us what we’ve heard so much about? In peace, we gather here today, Don’t make him ask again", I imagine a listener without lyrics would be confused for a second.
Arabelle has few lines here and there but I feel like she always comes out of nowhere and it's not easy to figure out it's her instantly.
Agreed. Once reading the lyrics through and paying attention, it's easy enough to remember. But it's definitely not that easy to get each line from just listening through.

It seems to be pretty intuitive figuring out which character is singing during a given song.

I can't really tell when he's changing characters when I'm listening to it.  But I brought it over to my friend's house this weekend, as he and his wife like more clasically-inspired rock music (the are both big Muse fans, but they've always been open to listening to DT, and while they don't go by the albums, they enjoy it when I am over and play it)--and she could tell right away without even knowing much about the plot when James was singing the female versus male lines.  I thought it was amazing, because I being the DT aficionado and being well-versed in the plot, still couldn't tell which character was singing without reading the lyric book.

There aren't many characters to pick from. One of which is dead already. Also, the characters have different personalities, so it would be hard to confuse Gabriel and Arhys, for example, or Faythe and Arabelle.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: nikatapi on February 09, 2016, 05:47:12 AM
All tours since ADTOE have been played to a click track, so i wonder why is there any question about this one, especially given that they need to run massive backing tracks and visuals.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: genome on February 09, 2016, 05:53:49 AM
For me there's a big difference between a few minutes of one song and 90% of songs during a 2 and a half hour performance. I'm just thinking it could be a LOT of pressure

I was under the impression they ran a click for the whole show on the 2014 tour. I think the screen/light show were automated to it as well.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 09, 2016, 05:55:39 AM
All tours since ADTOE have been played to a click track, so i wonder why is there any question about this one, especially given that they need to run massive backing tracks and visuals.

And this is possibly the most crucial video show of all, since it has to present a story across the entire show, so it makes clear sense.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: aurorablind on February 09, 2016, 05:57:41 AM
Does anybody know if MM is the only one who actually hears the click-track?
Does he have the "secret cowbell" that MP had?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: GasparXR on February 09, 2016, 06:06:04 AM
Does anybody know if MM is the only one who actually hears the click-track?
Does he have the "secret cowbell" that MP had?

I'm pretty sure that's how they did it in the past, but someone else might be able to answer for sure, so don't quote me on that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 09, 2016, 06:09:06 AM
I could be wrong, but I recall that only MM hears the click, the rest of the band hears only him. And he does have triggered drums that he can use for a count, which would be more essential when you have a section without drums but still have to rely on the drummer for timing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: aurorablind on February 09, 2016, 06:23:52 AM
Yeah, I thought so.
It's extremely impressive when you think about all the time-, mood- and tempo-changes in The Astonishing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peter Mc on February 09, 2016, 07:04:42 AM
I'm curious to see if they'll play the two overtures or whether the band will just come in on TGOM and MOB for each Act.  I seem to remember that they didn't play the SDOIT overture live, just piped in, and obviously didn't play False Awakening Suite on last tour, just a video presentation.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Podaar on February 09, 2016, 07:07:12 AM
Wouldn't you just love to see their rehearsals (which I assume they're doing as we type)...especially in light of what JP had to say in the web interview the other day?

[edited because of stupidity]
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 09, 2016, 07:30:06 AM
I'm curious to see if they'll play the two overtures or whether the band will just come in on TGOM and MOB for each Act.  I seem to remember that they didn't play the SDOIT overture live, just piped in, and obviously didn't play False Awakening Suite on last tour, just a video presentation.

I'd be shocked if they didn't play both.

I think False Awakening Suite was specifically written to open the show and be their lead-in, just as the "easter egg" acted as the credits music for the show, like musical book-ends. They could have played it live, but I get the impression it was possibly never their intention to do so.
SDOIT Overture was simply too hard to pull off live, since it had such an "orchestra" heavy arrangement, and it's a hard song to hold together with the orchestral style percussion and changing tempos. They probably attempted it and realized it wasn't going to work live, so opted for the backing track instead.

I think TA was designed to be played through from start to finish, and I can't see any reason why the two instrumental tracks wouldn't be played here. They're important to establishing and re-establishing the musical themes, and aren't difficult songs by DT standards.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: v_clortho on February 09, 2016, 07:52:37 AM
Number 11 on us billboard
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theanalogkid7 on February 09, 2016, 08:26:22 AM
Sharing here as well.  Here is the first look at the 3D Printed NOMACs from the ltd edition box set:

(https://i.imgur.com/VDL9UTy.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/cOQLuKQ.jpg)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 09, 2016, 08:27:47 AM
Looking pretty cool! Any higher res pics?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theanalogkid7 on February 09, 2016, 08:29:53 AM
Looking pretty cool! Any higher res pics?

Unfortunately no.  These were embedded into the e-mail so I guess they had to keep the resolution on the low end.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 09, 2016, 08:32:26 AM
That's a shame. Can't wait to see more pics of it. It looks like a fair bit of finishing work has gone into it, probably sanding back the printed layers, painting it silver, and giving it a wash of black to bring out the details.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theanalogkid7 on February 09, 2016, 08:35:56 AM
That's a shame. Can't wait to see more pics of it. It looks like a fair bit of finishing work has gone into it, probably sanding back the printed layers, painting it silver, and giving it a wash of black to bring out the details.

Yeah for sure. It's no wonder the thing has been delayed.

Also looks like the ltd edition box set orders are getting a poster of Heave's Cove with the bands signatures on it!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 09, 2016, 08:42:52 AM
Hey I haven't checked in on the thread in a while and am too lazy to read back; you guys say anything other than what is metal and what is ballads and the same copy-pasted pro and con arguments about rock operas?

Oh there are 3D printed NOMACs that's cool.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mc7 on February 09, 2016, 08:44:11 AM
I'm curious to see if they'll play the two overtures or whether the band will just come in on TGOM and MOB for each Act.  I seem to remember that they didn't play the SDOIT overture live, just piped in, and obviously didn't play False Awakening Suite on last tour, just a video presentation.


I'm curious to see if they'll play the two overtures or whether the band will just come in on TGOM and MOB for each Act.  I seem to remember that they didn't play the SDOIT overture live, just piped in, and obviously didn't play False Awakening Suite on last tour, just a video presentation.

I'd be shocked if they didn't play both.

I think False Awakening Suite was specifically written to open the show and be their lead-in, just as the "easter egg" acted as the credits music for the show, like musical book-ends. They could have played it live, but I get the impression it was possibly never their intention to do so.
SDOIT Overture was simply too hard to pull off live, since it had such an "orchestra" heavy arrangement, and it's a hard song to hold together with the orchestral style percussion and changing tempos. They probably attempted it and realized it wasn't going to work live, so opted for the backing track instead.

I think TA was designed to be played through from start to finish, and I can't see any reason why the two instrumental tracks wouldn't be played here. They're important to establishing and re-establishing the musical themes, and aren't difficult songs by DT standards.

I was thinking the same thing yesterday and I think they will have the two overtures piped, backed by an elaborate video presentation, introducing us to the Astonishing world.
I can see the same problems performing these overtures live as SDOIT had when they performed it. Plus, there is perhaps the most technical moment on the album in Dystopian Overture, where DT instruments blend in and interact with the orchestra and brass sections. Even for musicians as talented as these guys I think the fiddly timing of this section would be EXTREMELY hard to achieve.
As I was listening to the first overture, I could so imagine the strobe light appearing on JP as the opening riff of The Gift Of Music began.
Thinking about video presentations does anyone think there will be visuals throughout the entire concert allowing audiences to watch a movie of sorts to follow the storyline?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 09, 2016, 09:21:45 AM
Hey I haven't checked in on the thread in a while and am too lazy to read back; you guys say anything other than what is metal and what is ballads and the same copy-pasted pro and con arguments about rock operas?

Oh there are 3D printed NOMACs that's cool.
Nope you've pretty much got it covered.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bacong on February 09, 2016, 09:49:26 AM
:3

(https://i.imgur.com/xeha0FJ.jpg)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 09, 2016, 09:51:24 AM
For those who are more knowledgeable about guitar here, is there a similarity in the TGOM intro and The Answer intro or is it just the plucking pattern?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: GasparXR on February 09, 2016, 10:04:37 AM
For those who are more knowledgeable about guitar here, is there a similarity in the TGOM intro and The Answer intro or is it just the plucking pattern?

More than likely the latter, but maybe it was intentional. They are definitely in different keys though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 09, 2016, 10:06:54 AM
:3

So you listened to the album once in the last week. :lol Plus 2 songs again presumably. Which ones were they?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 09, 2016, 10:16:28 AM
For those who are more knowledgeable about guitar here, is there a similarity in the TGOM intro and The Answer intro or is it just the plucking pattern?

More than likely the latter, but maybe it was intentional. They are definitely in different keys though.

What I am sure is that The Answer intro is the same as When Your Time Has Come.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bacong on February 09, 2016, 10:21:42 AM
:3

So you listened to the album once in the last week. :lol Plus 2 songs again presumably. Which ones were they?

shut up I've listened to it like 6 times that didn't get scrobbled because I was at work come on rich you don't mod my LIFE :'(
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on February 09, 2016, 10:36:58 AM
I'm kind of embarrassed by how little I know about the story unfolding on the album. I've always been the same though. It's all about
the music for me. Maybe one boring weekend day I'll sit down and read the lyric book along with the album.

After so many spins I'm getting a feel for where this could end up in my rankings but I still want to wait a few weeks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 09, 2016, 10:52:42 AM
:3

So you listened to the album once in the last week. :lol Plus 2 songs again presumably. Which ones were they?

shut up I've listened to it like 6 times that didn't get scrobbled because I was at work come on rich you don't mod my LIFE :'(

damn yeah bacong
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 09, 2016, 11:41:02 AM

I'm curious to see if they'll play the two overtures or whether the band will just come in on TGOM and MOB for each Act.  I seem to remember that they didn't play the SDOIT overture live, just piped in, and obviously didn't play False Awakening Suite on last tour, just a video presentation.

I'd be shocked if they didn't play both.

I think False Awakening Suite was specifically written to open the show and be their lead-in, just as the "easter egg" acted as the credits music for the show, like musical book-ends. They could have played it live, but I get the impression it was possibly never their intention to do so.
SDOIT Overture was simply too hard to pull off live, since it had such an "orchestra" heavy arrangement, and it's a hard song to hold together with the orchestral style percussion and changing tempos. They probably attempted it and realized it wasn't going to work live, so opted for the backing track instead.

I think TA was designed to be played through from start to finish, and I can't see any reason why the two instrumental tracks wouldn't be played here. They're important to establishing and re-establishing the musical themes, and aren't difficult songs by DT standards.

I was thinking the same thing yesterday and I think they will have the two overtures piped, backed by an elaborate video presentation, introducing us to the Astonishing world.
I can see the same problems performing these overtures live as SDOIT had when they performed it. Plus, there is perhaps the most technical moment on the album in Dystopian Overture, where DT instruments blend in and interact with the orchestra and brass sections. Even for musicians as talented as these guys I think the fiddly timing of this section would be EXTREMELY hard to achieve.
As I was listening to the first overture, I could so imagine the strobe light appearing on JP as the opening riff of The Gift Of Music began.
Thinking about video presentations does anyone think there will be visuals throughout the entire concert allowing audiences to watch a movie of sorts to follow the storyline?
[/quote]

For me not playing Dystopian Overture would be like not playing Overture 1928.

Just imagine the show: lights go out, you hear Descent of the Nomacs, there are those two loud noises at the end and then....... nothing? it would be the most anticlimatic beginning of a show in DT history.

They will play it live, *maybe* they could pipe in the Entr'Acte, but Dystopian Overture will be played.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 09, 2016, 12:01:06 PM
For me not playing Dystopian Overture would be like not playing Overture 1928.

Just imagine the show: lights go out, you hear Descent of the Nomacs, there are those two loud noises at the end and then....... nothing? it would be the most anticlimatic beginning of a show in DT history.

Except that you wouldn't be hearing "nothing."  You would be hearing Dystopian Overture.  And then after the overture ends, the lights will come up to the band coming onstage for the mellow opening to The Gift of Music, very similar to when they played Six Degrees on the Six Degrees tour.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 09, 2016, 12:14:43 PM
There's no way they'll do that, they will play it, I'm willing to place a wager if anybody is intrested heh
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 09, 2016, 12:15:53 PM
For me not playing Dystopian Overture would be like not playing Overture 1928.

Just imagine the show: lights go out, you hear Descent of the Nomacs, there are those two loud noises at the end and then....... nothing? it would be the most anticlimatic beginning of a show in DT history.

Except that you wouldn't be hearing "nothing."  You would be hearing Dystopian Overture.  And then after the overture ends, the lights will come up to the band coming onstage for the mellow opening to The Gift of Music, very similar to when they played Six Degrees on the Six Degrees tour.

Yeah, I know, "Nothing" as in "no actual music playing and intro tape still rolling".

Well, we'll see, gut feeling tells me that they will play it live, it's still an instrumental song, Overture from Six Degrees wasn't really a full band (minus James) piece, it was more understandable that they wouldn't play it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheAtliator on February 09, 2016, 12:17:03 PM
If Dream Theater listed and billed this show as "Dream Theater presents The Astonishing - Live" and then play two of the best songs off their iPod, I'd be very upset...

But  :lol :lol what on Earth makes you think they'd do that? Descent of the NOMACS is clearly an intro tape.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 09, 2016, 12:19:19 PM
I didn't even take that matter to my gut MirrorMask, it's too obvious to me that they will play, I'll put money on it. Remember that quote and shame the hell out of me if they don't heh
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 09, 2016, 12:25:31 PM
I wouldn't be surprised either way.  They could play a number of pieces that they don't actually play and just use a tape for (e.g., Six Degrees Overture, False Awakening Suite, Metropolis Pt. 1 opening, etc.).  Whatever they decide to do will make sense in the context of the show for reasons we have absolutely zero idea about, so I wouldn't speculate one way or the other.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on February 09, 2016, 12:39:38 PM
That one adds quite a lot, I would say. It's the point at which Faythe convinces Nafaryus to give Gabriel a chance, and does quite a bit to open up Nafaryus' character with the revelation that as a young man he liked to listen to music as well.
Good points.  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 09, 2016, 12:45:50 PM
I wouldn't be surprised either way.  They could play a number of pieces that they don't actually play and just use a tape for (e.g., Six Degrees Overture, False Awakening Suite, Metropolis Pt. 1 opening, etc.).  Whatever they decide to do will make sense in the context of the show for reasons we have absolutely zero idea about, so I wouldn't speculate one way or the other.

Well, I wouldn't really say that we have "zero idea" about it, this entry (a bit dated, ok) from MP's FAQ explains what works also for basically every other band:

"On Once in a LIVEtime, who is playing the acoustic guitar and piano at the beginning of The Crimson Sunrise? faq id: 211
MP: Both the Acoustic Guitar and Piano are part of a Pre-recorded intro tape. We've done the same throughout our career with Metropolis, Pull Me Under and even Regression. The reason is to help build the anticipation and excitement at the start of the show (or encore) and to have a more exciting entrance when we arrive on the stage. It has nothing to do with “not being able” to play those intros, as we have played each one of these songs both ways throughout our career."


Anyway, did they actually play the intro of Metropolis? I think they've always played it as opener or as an encore song, therefore warranting the use of the intro tape...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 09, 2016, 12:55:54 PM
:3

So you listened to the album once in the last week. :lol Plus 2 songs again presumably. Which ones were they?

shut up I've listened to it like 6 times that didn't get scrobbled because I was at work come on rich you don't mod my LIFE :'(
YES I DO I OWN YOU

No I was just amused by the fact that it's your highest plays by far but still only one listen. I had the same thing last week. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 09, 2016, 12:58:19 PM
I wouldn't be surprised either way.  They could play a number of pieces that they don't actually play and just use a tape for (e.g., Six Degrees Overture, False Awakening Suite, Metropolis Pt. 1 opening, etc.).  Whatever they decide to do will make sense in the context of the show for reasons we have absolutely zero idea about, so I wouldn't speculate one way or the other.

Well, I wouldn't really say that we have "zero idea" about it, this entry (a bit dated, ok) from MP's FAQ explains what works also for basically every other band:

"On Once in a LIVEtime, who is playing the acoustic guitar and piano at the beginning of The Crimson Sunrise? faq id: 211
MP: Both the Acoustic Guitar and Piano are part of a Pre-recorded intro tape. We've done the same throughout our career with Metropolis, Pull Me Under and even Regression. The reason is to help build the anticipation and excitement at the start of the show (or encore) and to have a more exciting entrance when we arrive on the stage. It has nothing to do with “not being able” to play those intros, as we have played each one of these songs both ways throughout our career."


Anyway, did they actually play the intro of Metropolis? I think they've always played it as opener or as an encore song, therefore warranting the use of the intro tape...
Okay, but that directly supports what I just said.  They have a history of using intro tapes for songs or parts of songs that they clearly could play if they wanted to.  There is clear precedent that would make any hypothetical decision to not play Dystopian Overture "par for the course." 

That said, we do indeed have precisely "zero idea" about what they plan to do for this tour.  At this point, we have no idea about what the band is planning for this show and how they want to present it, other than the fact that it will be The Astonishing from start to finish.  So anyone taking a firm position about whether they "will" or "will not" actually play Dystopian Overture is just guessing with practically no basis for their guess whatsoever.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Crow on February 09, 2016, 01:03:15 PM
i just watched TGOM music video because i'm late and

okay
is it just me or is Myung more audible in the video than he actually is on the album? I wasn't even really paying attention to the bassline at first but it caught my ear pretty easily, whereas I've never really noticed his parts on the album version
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Train of Naught on February 09, 2016, 01:11:45 PM
:3

So you listened to the album once in the last week. :lol Plus 2 songs again presumably. Which ones were they?
Actually my last.fm only scrobbles 33 tracks per listen, Hovering Sojourn is apparently too short to register or some shit.  :lol

I also listened o You Suffer by Napalm Death over a hundred times but it says I never played it because it's too short.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Podaar on February 09, 2016, 01:14:14 PM
i just watched TGOM music video because i'm late and

okay
is it just me or is Myung more audible in the video than he actually is on the album? I wasn't even really paying attention to the bassline at first but it caught my ear pretty easily, whereas I've never really noticed his parts on the album version

For me, it's kind of a funny album for how audible the bass is. Other than A New Beginning, I don't notice the bass on this album while listening to it, unless... it's anywhere near a subwoofer. And then,  :omg:

I turned up the crossover and lowered the volume on my subwoofer in the living room the other day listened to the whole album. It made a huge difference with having JMX really part of the performance.

Oh, and it also makes the kick drum sound perfect.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bacong on February 09, 2016, 01:17:47 PM
i just watched TGOM music video because i'm late and

okay
is it just me or is Myung more audible in the video than he actually is on the album? I wasn't even really paying attention to the bassline at first but it caught my ear pretty easily, whereas I've never really noticed his parts on the album version

do you have an EQ on your music app?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheAtliator on February 09, 2016, 01:41:35 PM
@MirrorMask They played the intro on Score. I'd have to think about any other instances...

i just watched TGOM music video because i'm late and

okay
is it just me or is Myung more audible in the video than he actually is on the album? I wasn't even really paying attention to the bassline at first but it caught my ear pretty easily, whereas I've never really noticed his parts on the album version

Funny, I was gonna say something similar. I don't know that I'd say the mix was different (that would be pretty interesting) but I absolutely noticed the bass parts that I'd never really heard, simply due to actually watching JMX playing it close up, so you can't miss it. And that kind of happened with other parts for me too; there's so much going on musically in that song, that it's hard to really pay attention to everything that's there, and watching them is a cool experience because it makes more sense of it to your ears  :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikemangioy on February 09, 2016, 02:05:24 PM
Okay, I'll just sit here for a while writing a track by track opinion, while I re-listen to the record (this has to be my fourth or fifth listen-through, without counting the single songs)

Descent Of The NOMACS  I'm always fond of great intros. This is one of them, I love the overall vibe of it and the creepy sound effect that build tension.

Dystopian Overture  I really like this overture, but I feel it lacks a bit of identity. Overture 1928 was a strong song, and it did not just present themes from the album, but it did something on its own. But still, I like the structure, and I dig every single part of it.

The Gift Of Music  Well, I've always liked this song a lot since it came out. It sounds fresh for DT, and happy, a vibe they seem to have forgotten for a bit. I love the instrumental section and the choir section. Shivers each time.

The Answer  Nice little tune. I like how clean it all sounds. It's a very light hearted song that makes me feel quite good.

A Better Life  One of the best tracks of the whole thing. It manages both to be badass and quite touching.

Lord Nafaryus  Dang. Halfway insane, halfway badass. I really love the "I've heard the whispering of revolution" part. A great introduction to the villain.

A Savior In The Square Another standout. Incredible songwriting going on here. Some of the best stuff since Octavarium. I wish it was longer  :lol

When Your Time Has Come  While a normal pop-rock song, this is incredibly refreshing. I really like the chorus and the outro feels really epic. The synth melody reminds me of some old school italian prog vibes.

Act Of Faythe  Good enough track, nothing special. I find that the main theme is used in much better ways in other songs. But I like the intro and the outro, they make this piece somewhat deep. The negative thing is that it could be a skip-track since the track after is a monster.

Three Days  Jesus. This is amazingly great. Heavy riffs, ragtime, jazz, blast beats... and James is on fire! One of the best tracks!  :metal :metal

The Hovering Sojourn  I think that out of all the NOMACS tracks, this is the one that represents best the idea of shitty electronic music with no real rhythm or melody.

Brother, Can You Hear Me?  At first I kind of cringed at this song. But now, it's one of my favorites to listen to; it's epic to the core, and the part when the melody gets reprised is incredible. Very heart warming and hymn-sounding piece.

A Life Left Behind  The intro sounds to me like a less electric version of Breaking All Illusions. This is another awesome track that is capable of turning a simple ballad into something much more creative and fun.

Ravenskill  Among the greatest songs in the whole album. From the atmospheric beautiful intro, to the badass riff, and one of the best performances by James in all his career... this is an incredible semi-ballad. Wow.

Chosen  This part of the album is basically ballad after ballad but I don't freaking care. This is another charming piece, with tons of amazing and emotional melodies.

A Tempting Offer  Yet another incredible song. It starts out all creepy and it gives me chills, especially thanks to James' portrayal of a pedophile-ish Daryus, then it gets all epic but still badass. Lots of shivers and headbanging in this one.

Digital Discord  This shit is eerie man. That huge sound at the beginning is creepy as hell.

The X Aspect  I could've done without another song about the betrayal, but this is a great track - quite dramatic. The Brother Can You Hear Me bagpipe part is incredibly dramatic in tone and gives depth to the story arch.

A New Beginning  Fun track! Happy 7/4 verses with a badass reprise of Lord Nafaryus as a chorus. I also love the instrumental part and that solo groove is cool.

The Road To Revolution  Excellent closing track for act 1! It takes all the cool themes and includes them to give a sum up of the story so far. I really love it. Also, DAT high note at the end.

Okay, that was Act 1. Time to take a piss or something, then I'll get on to act 2.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 09, 2016, 02:08:51 PM
These are the first DT ballads I have actually liked since SFAM.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 09, 2016, 02:15:03 PM
These are the first DT ballads I have actually liked since SFAM.

I still like The Answer Lies Within - even though I appear to be the only DT fan in existence that does.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Crow on February 09, 2016, 02:20:55 PM
i just watched TGOM music video because i'm late and

okay
is it just me or is Myung more audible in the video than he actually is on the album? I wasn't even really paying attention to the bassline at first but it caught my ear pretty easily, whereas I've never really noticed his parts on the album version

do you have an EQ on your music app?
i get bass plenty fine on a lot of other albums i've been listening to as recently as yesterday, so it's just The Astonishing that's having the problem of bass being way low in the mix

unrelated:
i'm really sad that A Life Left Behind starts out so cool but then turns into another ballad, even if i do like the chorus of the track a lot, i wish they'd have done more with the opening bit that's pretty much completely detached from the rest of the song
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 09, 2016, 02:27:22 PM
unrelated:
i'm really sad that A Life Left Behind starts out so cool but then turns into another ballad, even if i do like the chorus of the track a lot, i wish they'd have done more with the opening bit that's pretty much completely detached from the rest of the song

I suppose it's both a blessing and a curse that the songs on TA go through multiple 'movements' which they often never return to within the same song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 09, 2016, 02:50:08 PM
is it just me or is Myung more audible in the video than he actually is on the album? I wasn't even really paying attention to the bassline at first but it caught my ear pretty easily, whereas I've never really noticed his parts on the album version
Funny, I was gonna say something similar. I don't know that I'd say the mix was different (that would be pretty interesting) but I absolutely noticed the bass parts that I'd never really heard, simply due to actually watching JMX playing it close up, so you can't miss it. And that kind of happened with other parts for me too; there's so much going on musically in that song, that it's hard to really pay attention to everything that's there, and watching them is a cool experience because it makes more sense of it to your ears  :)
Yeah, I had this feeling too, that I really noticed the bass when I could see him playing -- I think it was just a psychological effect.  P sure it's an identical audio track.

And agreed 100% with anyone who said the right headphones or subwoofer will really give you the bassline definition you need. :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 09, 2016, 02:53:27 PM
unrelated:
i'm really sad that A Life Left Behind starts out so cool but then turns into another ballad, even if i do like the chorus of the track a lot, i wish they'd have done more with the opening bit that's pretty much completely detached from the rest of the song

I suppose it's both a blessing and a curse that the songs on TA go through multiple 'movements' which they often never return to within the same song.

I actually like that, keeps it interesting for me. 

heh eh heh this part of the songs sucks but it gets cool later heh eh heh
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 09, 2016, 02:58:18 PM
I actually like that, keeps it interesting for me. 

That's why I said it's a blessing as well. It can make a song feel really dynamic. However, it can also de-emphasise some really cool parts.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikemangioy on February 09, 2016, 03:13:17 PM
Act 2 opinions ahead:

2285 Entr'acte  Okay I like this better than Dystopian Overture. It's a fun way to reintroduce the vibe and it's written amazingly well.

(note: the transition between 2285EA and MOB is freaking cool.)

Moment Of Betrayal  Cool song that kinda falls flat compared to the rest of the album, since it's the most "late DT"-ish of the whole thing. But it's cool enough.

Heaven's Cove  This is another song that I wish was longer. The arpeggio/riff is great, and I like the way it slowly develops into heaviness.

Begin Again  With a cool intro like this (and also the outro, to an extent), I really expected more. This is just another of Faythe's "yeah I fell in love woohoo" songs. Also, a mesh of Chosen and The Answer. Could've used another type of track, I think this is my least favorite.

The Path That Divides  Easily in the very top best of the album. Such a dramatic and theatrical track! There's lots going on and it's really fun to listen to.

Machine Chatter  Kind of wrong placement, I think it kills the climax of the album - But overall, this is quite groovy to be NOMACS. I like it.

The Walking Shadow  For a while I thought this was another one of those "I WISH IT WAS LONGER" tracks. But it's just so good that it's perfect the way it is. Again, one of my favorites.

My Last Farewell  Another grower - I love the mesh of melanchonic and dark/heavy vibes. It reminds me of something, but I can't tell what. Probably some ballad from the band.

Losing Faythe  Nice ballad. I like the chill vibe even though that's not quite the vibe they were going for, looking at the story at this point. It's catchy, I even go back to it once in a while. I love the climax.

Whispers On The Wind  Great performance by James, and overall a great composition.

Hymn Of A Thousand Voices  This track was so unexpected. A country-esque song with a gospel finale? Wow. A tad bit underwhelming, but good nontheless.

Our New World  This song is really uplifting! I like the simple and cool vibe to it, and the A Savior In The Square reprise just feels amazing to listen to after all that happened in the story.

Power Down  Amazing final NOMACS track. Really dig how everything kind of fails to work and glitches towards the end. Probably my favorite of the five.

Astonishing  This is a great closure for the story. It really feels complete after this and the finale is pretty touching. I love this song.


Conclusion: The Astonishing, despite a few flaws, is incredible. I don't care what anyone says. DT still have it. After 30 years.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 09, 2016, 03:14:52 PM
Conclusion: The Astonishing, despite a few flaws, is incredible. I don't care what anyone says. DT still have it. After 30 years.

My opinion in a nutshell. It's not gloriously perfect but it's wonderful.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thematt202 on February 09, 2016, 03:21:50 PM
Conclusion: The Astonishing, despite a few flaws, is incredible. I don't care what anyone says. DT still have it. After 30 years.

My opinion in a nutshell. It's not gloriously perfect but it's wonderful.

It's pretty damn close to perfection IMO. A few more little guitar solos and it would be there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 09, 2016, 03:26:03 PM
I don't care what anyone says. DT still have it. After 30 years.

It really is amazing how much passion and ambition DT still have for the kind of band that they are and how long they've been active. What other band creates their grandest work 30 years into their discography and gets praised by critics for it?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 09, 2016, 03:31:25 PM
I was going to say Judas Priest, but no one cared for Nostradamus sadly  :biggrin:

Well, not really no one, I love that album and I applaud them for taking the chance just as I applaud DT for The Astonishing. Too bad I'm in the vast minority.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 09, 2016, 03:34:01 PM
I was going to say Judas Priest, but no one cared for Nostradamus sadly  :biggrin:

Well, not really no one, I love that album and I applaud them for taking the chance just as I applaud DT for The Astonishing. Too bad I'm in the vast minority.

I like it as well and wasn't suggesting that DT were the only ones to do what I said but yeah, Nostradamus isn't exactly critically adored enough to count as an example.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Scorpion on February 09, 2016, 03:35:40 PM
I was going to say Judas Priest, but no one cared for Nostradamus sadly  :biggrin:

Well, not really no one, I love that album and I applaud them for taking the chance just as I applaud DT for The Astonishing. Too bad I'm in the vast minority.

Can... can it be? Somebody else who loves Nostradamus?

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE WE MUST NOW BE BEST FRIENDS FOREVER OKAY
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 09, 2016, 04:03:48 PM
To be fair with the negative reaction to Nostradamus, Judas Priest's fanbase aren't exactly the audience who want a double disc concept album. I admire their bravery though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 09, 2016, 04:07:00 PM
Conclusion: The Astonishing, despite a few flaws, is incredible. I don't care what anyone says. DT still have it. After 30 years.

My opinion in a nutshell. It's not gloriously perfect but it's wonderful.

It's pretty damn close to perfection IMO. A few more little guitar solos and it would be there.

I would like less of the slow songs, but then it would leave holes in the story, so it's a toss up.  But yes it's near perfection.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 09, 2016, 04:42:31 PM
2:50 in The Path That Divides  :metal

Almost two weeks and i'm limiting my listens of this album to avoid getting sick of it like I did with DT12.

I get goosebumps all over the place. I absolutely think it's a remarkable album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 09, 2016, 04:55:29 PM
2:50 in The Path That Divides  :metal

 

I get goosebumps all over the place. I absolutely think it's a remarkable album.

Agreed on both counts.

The Path That Divides is my favorite song on the album. I love that first verse.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 09, 2016, 05:00:16 PM
I love the rare moments on the album where they do let rip. Those moments stand out rather than it being a 5 minute solo trade off on every song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on February 09, 2016, 05:20:03 PM
I wouldn't be surprised either way.  They could play a number of pieces that they don't actually play and just use a tape for (e.g., Six Degrees Overture, False Awakening Suite, Metropolis Pt. 1 opening, etc.).  Whatever they decide to do will make sense in the context of the show for reasons we have absolutely zero idea about, so I wouldn't speculate one way or the other.
I would be disappointed if they didn't play Dystopian Overture live , it's just too powerful to have it piped in. I want to hear it in full force with the attention on the band with big bright lights!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Rickharris1011 on February 09, 2016, 05:20:29 PM
Maybe "filler" isn't the right word, but the middle of Act II is a somewhat long span of nothing musically remarkable.

It's harder for me to digest Act II because most of the songs don't have a predominant refrain, and after the first listen, I'm not in it for the story.  Moment of Betrayal and Our New World have more of a classic form - easier to relate and re-listen, and Hymn of 1000 Voices has that Pink Floyd march feel, like Brother can you hear me and (parts of) Road to Revolution.  I guess Begin Again has a classic form, but I just don't care that much for it. The stretch from Path that Divides to Whispers in the Wind has some amazing parts, but harder for me to listen to straight through because as John Popper once said, there's no "hook that brings me back"

I still like it a lot, but I can only listen to Act 2 in smaller chunks, usually (MoB/HC) (PTD/WS/LF) (Hymn/ONW)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on February 09, 2016, 05:22:34 PM
These are the first DT ballads I have actually liked since SFAM.

I still like The Answer Lies Within - even though I appear to be the only DT fan in existence that does.
I like it..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: clinks63 on February 09, 2016, 07:42:24 PM
Regarding the "my music player" line--which I also find grating and takes me out of the story...
This is my favorite moment of the album.  Made me tear up on first listen.  Just reaches right into that part of my memory when I was a new kid at school in 7th grade (brutal year to be the new kid) and the only friend I had was my music player.

This is not to say you're wrong... I have plenty of thoughts on where JP & co. might have used a second pair of eyes when lyric-writing over the past several albums... but just, one's trash lyric is another's treasure.  :)

I loved that line also because my music player is so integral to my lifestyle that I can listen to two full runs of TA in a day. That's how much time I spend listening to it.

it's the only awkward part of the album

and also, it's not a Walkman or an iPod. More like of player/powerbank with built in earphones

(https://scontent-dfw1-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s750x750/sh0.08/e35/12362111_988724321189060_120303871_n.jpg)


Can't help but think this album would be a little better with MP's drumming.  I miss all his different percussion sounds he'd make.

i agree, with max stax sounds


I don't even compare it to previous DT albums. To me it stands on its own merit.

I agree with this so much. Because it's so long and different, it's really hard to place with the rest of their discography, though in terms of effort it's clearly on top.

I've been saying since my first listen, it's really incredibly difficult to figure out where this album would place within the discography of DT.  It either needs to be on it's under a "Soundtrack" category, or have an asterisks next to the title.

I might sound as a fanboy in which I am, I really applaud the band & John Petrucci for having the balls to create this idea at this point in DT history. From the characters, the story, the map is outstanding work. There will be critics of course, but many of us fans can't wait to see this on stage & how James will portray each character live, which will be a challenging task, but he will pull it off well


i pretty much consider TA as not standard album to listen to and not directly compare to the rest of disco


Agree with the ariich too. Actually I think they must have trimmed down a lot, there's much more that could've gone into it like the turning of Lord Nafaryus  (WHY does he use NOMACS if he loved music?), a more in depth explanation of Daryus' comeuppance, more info with the NOMACS themselves...

Also agree with a lot of people about Whispers On The Wind. Pretty sure it could've been one track with Losing Faythe. Also would be a double meaning with Gabriel losing faith in himself.

As far as the NOMACS go, my 13-year-old son who likes TA a lot told me this morning : "The NOMACS don't really serve any purpose. It's a shame, I would have liked something more coming out of it". I completely agree with him.

i'm assuming NOMACS section would be the part were major change in costumes and stage setup would occur during the live opera
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on February 09, 2016, 07:43:06 PM
For those who are more knowledgeable about guitar here, is there a similarity in the TGOM intro and The Answer intro or is it just the plucking pattern?

Well, they sound similar: they are both arpeggios on major keys, and they both are in 4/4, but I wouldn't say they share the same plucking pattern.

On "The Gift of Music" John accentuates in such a way that I hear 7 notes plus another 9 (making the 16 eighth notes corresponding to 2 bars), whereas in "The Answer" I hear a simpler pattern (they sound like groups of 8 notes).

They are not the same chord progressions either, I think.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JMSE on February 09, 2016, 09:03:53 PM
At last I could sit down and review this behemoth. Here's an excerpt from my review:

To see such an ambitious project from a band that has been around for 30 years is really impressive; especially when you consider they are coming from a streak of 3 top 10 debut albums on Billboard and 2 Grammy nominations. This Prog-Opera known as The Astonishing is not a traditional progressive rock album, nor should it be judged as such. It was a risky move by the band to go this direction; but it is a risk that, in my humble opinion, really paid off. Dream Theater has give fans their most exciting album in over 15 years.

https://sweetelation.wordpress.com/2016/02/10/album-review-the-astonishing-by-dream-theater/
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on February 09, 2016, 09:34:02 PM
These are the first DT ballads I have actually liked since SFAM.

I still like The Answer Lies Within - even though I appear to be the only DT fan in existence that does.
I like it..
The Bridge: "you've got the future on your side, etc.." is one of my favorite parts on the album.  I don't love the album though so take that for what its worth.  Its a decent song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 09, 2016, 09:38:04 PM
Trivial tidbit: Just noticed that in the file information for my HDTracks FLAC files, the genre specified for thr songs is "rock / hard rock"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 09, 2016, 09:39:24 PM
HDTracks must be pretty general with their categories!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikemangioy on February 10, 2016, 01:32:03 AM
I don't care what anyone says. DT still have it. After 30 years.

It really is amazing how much passion and ambition DT still have for the kind of band that they are and how long they've been active. What other band creates their grandest work 30 years into their discography and gets praised by critics for it?

Well, Rush did. 40 years in their career.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 10, 2016, 04:58:41 AM
I don't care what anyone says. DT still have it. After 30 years.

It really is amazing how much passion and ambition DT still have for the kind of band that they are and how long they've been active. What other band creates their grandest work 30 years into their discography and gets praised by critics for it?

Well, Rush did. 40 years in their career.

Oh yeah, Clockwork Angels. Rush are another band who have stayed driven thought their career.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on February 10, 2016, 05:27:22 AM
About 10 listens in now . . . I NEVER thought anything would ever top Images and Words, but this is becoming my favorite album of all time. I'm speechless as to how good James is. That run of songs on the 2nd half of disc 1 is insanely good.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: AngelBack on February 10, 2016, 05:52:45 AM
At this point I don't think it's too soon to call this thing a true masterpiece.   
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 10, 2016, 05:56:05 AM
I think it is.

Too soon, that is, not the masterpiece bit.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 10, 2016, 06:46:14 AM
I'm not going to temper my enthusiasm due to today's date. This is a great album and only gets better with each listen. I pretty much love it all now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 10, 2016, 06:47:20 AM
I think this could be their best album...

We'll have to see how well it holds up over time.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: James Sucellus on February 10, 2016, 06:48:42 AM
It's LaBrie's best album.  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 10, 2016, 07:06:10 AM
It's 100% definitely the best produced of the last 3.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 10, 2016, 07:21:09 AM
It's 100% definitely the best produced of the last 3.

Not that that means much. The two before it were easily among DT's worst sounding albums. I really like the production on TA though. By far their best of the RR era.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 10, 2016, 07:34:15 AM
It's 100% definitely the best produced of the last 3.

Not that that means much. The two before it were easily among DT's worst sounding albums. I really like the production on TA though. By far their best of the RR era.

Yes. if we're doing a really specific ranking : :lol

Production of the RoadRunner albums :

1. The Astonishing
2. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
3. Systematic Chaos
4. A Dramatic Turn of Events
5. DT12

Although I don't mind the sound of Dramatic Turn. It's just a bit demoey sounding and the drum mix is too quiet.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SuperTaco on February 10, 2016, 07:37:04 AM

Not that that means much. The two before it were easily among DT's worst sounding albums. I really like the production on TA though. By far their best of the RR era.

For me, there's one specific sign that shows I like the production on an album: When I don't think about the production at all.

I listened to the whole album without thinking things like "MM is too mechanical" or "JM isn't loud enough" or "JP is too loud". Everything is balanced, easy on the ears but still powerful.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 10, 2016, 07:39:39 AM
JP's solo production efforts are getting better each time. As long as they don't go backwards and do another brickwalled effort like DT12 - Rich Chycki could continue to be their engineer and

almost co-producer. He seems to be able to get a good performance out of LaBrie.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 10, 2016, 07:42:00 AM
It's 100% definitely the best produced of the last 3.

Not that that means much. The two before it were easily among DT's worst sounding albums. I really like the production on TA though. By far their best of the RR era.

Yes. if we're doing a really specific ranking : :lol

Production of the RoadRunner albums :

1. The Astonishing
2. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
3. Systematic Chaos
4. A Dramatic Turn of Events
5. DT12

Although I don't mind the sound of Dramatic Turn. It's just a bit demoey sounding and the drum mix is too quiet.
I would agree with all of this. :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YOWspotter on February 10, 2016, 07:49:06 AM
So I've given this thing a few spins and my conclusion is that it's not really for me.  There's no questioning the creativity and musicianship required to conceive and execute such an album; it's just that this isn't what I what DT to be applying all that talent towards.

I don't think I can fall in love with this album.  The fantastic moments, and there are many, are frustratingly buried in stuff I'm not overly keen on and/or are under-developed.  I can't count how many times while listening I hear a wonderful theme that I want to latch onto and ride for a while, only to have it end way too soon for my liking.

For example, in The X Aspect, I wish the concept part from 2:34 to 3:34 was a 6 minute song ... instead of a 1 minute "snippet"!

Anyway, with all that said, I can get on board with the following more or less from start to finish:
 
A Better Life (probably my favourite overall)
Ravenskill
Moment of Betrayal
The Path that Divides

PS. does anyone else feel like A Better Life could easily find a home on a Rocky soundtrack?  That's a good thing ...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 10, 2016, 07:50:34 AM
It's crazy that one person ( ie me ) can listen to The Astonishing and be like

" This is incredible. This is MUSIC. Easily the best thing they've done since Octavarium. Just gorgeous  :) "

And another person can listen to the exact same album and be like

" Ehhhh. It's bland and boring :( "
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on February 10, 2016, 07:53:57 AM
Well it's not that hard to top Octavarium.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on February 10, 2016, 08:02:12 AM
I'm not sure "under-developed" would be an accurate description since they spent the better part of 2 years writing and fleshing
out ideas. I'm totally cool with people not liking it but for the reasons people have mentioned not liking it, I am feeling the opposite.
I have felt that far too many DT songs went on 2-5 minutes longer than necessary and found myself skipping long endings.
So for me this album represents a DT that gets concise and focused and keeps me wanting more. I never feel like skipping sections
of songs and I am always anxious to spin the whole thing again.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 10, 2016, 08:49:00 AM
Well it's not that hard to top Octavarium.


:getoffmylawn: Ohhhhhhhhhhh
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Awaken on February 10, 2016, 08:59:45 AM


PS. does anyone else feel like A Better Life could easily find a home on a Rocky soundtrack?  That's a good thing ...

Absolutely - that's the first thing I thought of and can't get it out of my head.  From the JPs solo through the end, it definitely reminds me of the music in Rocky IV.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lax on February 10, 2016, 09:02:51 AM
Haha you wish there would be a 8 disc version with all the improvisations and solos cut off ?

I listened over 20 times now, still feeling new things and changing favorites, this is so dense and multi-layered !
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pretorios on February 10, 2016, 09:21:44 AM
I'm not sure "under-developed" would be an accurate description since they spent the better part of 2 years writing and fleshing
out ideas. I'm totally cool with people not liking it but for the reasons people have mentioned not liking it, I am feeling the opposite.
I have felt that far too many DT songs went on 2-5 minutes longer than necessary and found myself skipping long endings.
So for me this album represents a DT that gets concise and focused and keeps me wanting more. I never feel like skipping sections
of songs and I am always anxious to spin the whole thing again.

I do like the shorter more focused songs. Whether they thought shorter songs would work better for TA or they've learned to be more disciplined--I really hope it's the latter, as I want to see more of this format in the future. There's nothing wrong with an epic song now and then, but DT's more recent albums--BCASL and ADTOE might be the biggest offenders--have been overwrought with long songs. Sometimes less is more, and to leave a listener wanting more--isn't that the ultimate compliment to an artist?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Train of Naught on February 10, 2016, 09:59:03 AM
Has been a while since I've posted here.

I'm now at the point where I can very much enjoy listening to a lot of these songs separately, especially for such a concept-based album that's pretty cool.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 10, 2016, 10:21:20 AM
I have listened to it every day since release.  Sometimes multiple times.  I usually play it first thing when I get in to work.  Today, decided to give it a break and listen to Retrospect instead.  I will queue The Astonishing up for later. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 10, 2016, 10:27:52 AM
I don't think I can fall in love with this album.  The fantastic moments, and there are many, are frustratingly buried in stuff I'm not overly keen on and/or are under-developed.  I can't count how many times while listening I hear a wonderful theme that I want to latch onto and ride for a while, only to have it end way too soon for my liking.

For example, in The X Aspect, I wish the concept part from 2:34 to 3:34 was a 6 minute song ... instead of a 1 minute "snippet"!
I sort of understand you, though I agree with emtee that I'm not sure "under-developed" is really the right word. I really do feel that they did an excellent and very careful job with recurring themes, music fitting narrative, and so on.

That said, for me personally the themes that seem to recur the most - Brother Can You Hear Me, for example - are the ones I'm generally least excited about. Whereas my favourite themes/melodies have little or no recurrence, like the two different Evangeline bits, all that great stuff in Three Days, the climax in Ravenskill, pretty much everything in A Life Left Behind.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 10, 2016, 10:35:12 AM
My ranking of the album slowly settles on "mid tier" for me. It's nowhere near as bad as some online rankings make it out to be, but it's also not top-tier. A ton better than DT12 for sure, maybe similar to ADTOE.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Luoto on February 10, 2016, 10:35:52 AM
That said, for me personally the themes that seem to recur the most - Brother Can You Hear Me, for example - are the ones I'm generally least excited about. Whereas my favourite themes/melodies have little or no recurrence, like the two different Evangeline bits, all that great stuff in Three Days, the climax in Ravenskill, pretty much everything in A Life Left Behind.

BCYHM doesn't actually recur that often, it's just very identifiable whenever it comes up. Not sure what you mean by climax in Ravenskill - the heavy middle section or the ending - but both of those do recur more than once. Especially the latter is one of the most dynamic motifs of the whole thing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on February 10, 2016, 10:39:35 AM
It's 100% definitely the best produced of the last 3.

Not that that means much. The two before it were easily among DT's worst sounding albums. I really like the production on TA though. By far their best of the RR era.
I actually think the production on DT12 is quite good, one of my fav DT albums.. The production TA is top notch though, very easy on the ears!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: nikatapi on February 10, 2016, 10:44:20 AM

That said, for me personally the themes that seem to recur the most - Brother Can You Hear Me, for example - are the ones I'm generally least excited about. Whereas my favourite themes/melodies have little or no recurrence, like the two different Evangeline bits, all that great stuff in Three Days, the climax in Ravenskill, pretty much everything in A Life Left Behind.

I agree with you on that, especially the evangeline melody is very cool, sad to only hear it twice in the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Evermind on February 10, 2016, 10:44:58 AM
That said, for me personally the themes that seem to recur the most - Brother Can You Hear Me, for example - are the ones I'm generally least excited about. Whereas my favourite themes/melodies have little or no recurrence, like the two different Evangeline bits, all that great stuff in Three Days, the climax in Ravenskill, pretty much everything in A Life Left Behind.

I don't know what theme recurs how often, but I have the same feeling. The themes I don't like - Brother Can You Hear Me and Faythe's theme - I feel like they're all over the album. :lol And yeah, absolutely gorgeous Evangeline theme almost isn't featured at all.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on February 10, 2016, 12:39:54 PM
BCYHM doesn't actually recur that often, it's just very identifiable whenever it comes up.

Off the top of my head, it occurs in:

Dystopian Overture (under the Lion King vocalizing)
BCYHM (duh)
The X Aspect (bagpipes)
Astonishing (Ghost Arhys)

....

And I just proved your point, I thought it showed up a lot more
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 10, 2016, 01:18:22 PM
BCYHM doesn't actually recur that often, it's just very identifiable whenever it comes up.
For sure it's not that often, but still more than any other I think.

Quote
Not sure what you mean by climax in Ravenskill - the heavy middle section or the ending - but both of those do recur more than once. Especially the latter is one of the most dynamic motifs of the whole thing.
I especially mean the meeting between Faythe and Arhys - really fantastic stuff. The build up just before that is great too. I didn't think either of those recurred, but I haven't spotted everything yet.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 10, 2016, 01:22:47 PM
So I've given this thing a few spins and my conclusion is that it's not really for me.  There's no questioning the creativity and musicianship required to conceive and execute such an album; it's just that this isn't what I what DT to be applying all that talent towards.

I don't think I can fall in love with this album.  The fantastic moments, and there are many, are frustratingly buried in stuff I'm not overly keen on and/or are under-developed.  I can't count how many times while listening I hear a wonderful theme that I want to latch onto and ride for a while, only to have it end way too soon for my liking.

For example, in The X Aspect, I wish the concept part from 2:34 to 3:34 was a 6 minute song ... instead of a 1 minute "snippet"!

I love the album, but I completely agree with the bolded part.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on February 10, 2016, 01:27:19 PM
Listened to this today.  It was pretty good.

When I got to around :41 in 2285 Entr'acte, it reminded me of the line around :21 in War Inside My Head.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gm5k on February 10, 2016, 01:29:46 PM
So I've given this thing a few spins and my conclusion is that it's not really for me.  There's no questioning the creativity and musicianship required to conceive and execute such an album; it's just that this isn't what I what DT to be applying all that talent towards.

I don't think I can fall in love with this album.  The fantastic moments, and there are many, are frustratingly buried in stuff I'm not overly keen on and/or are under-developed.  I can't count how many times while listening I hear a wonderful theme that I want to latch onto and ride for a while, only to have it end way too soon for my liking.

For example, in The X Aspect, I wish the concept part from 2:34 to 3:34 was a 6 minute song ... instead of a 1 minute "snippet"!

I love the album, but I completely agree with the bolded part.

Yea 2:50 - 3:06 is one of my favorite DT moments in a long time.

I kinda love that about this album, though.  So many short lived moments that give me chills.  Not quite like any other album I've ever experienced for sure.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 10, 2016, 01:33:33 PM
That said, for me personally the themes that seem to recur the most - Brother Can You Hear Me, for example - are the ones I'm generally least excited about. Whereas my favourite themes/melodies have little or no recurrence, like the two different Evangeline bits, all that great stuff in Three Days, the climax in Ravenskill, pretty much everything in A Life Left Behind.

I don't know what theme recurs how often, but I have the same feeling. The themes I don't like - Brother Can You Hear Me and Faythe's theme - I feel like they're all over the album. :lol And yeah, absolutely gorgeous Evangeline theme almost isn't featured at all.

+1 on the Evangeline theme, it's awesome.  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 10, 2016, 01:34:43 PM
+2 :metal :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on February 10, 2016, 01:56:06 PM

For sure it's not that often, but still more than any other I think.
 

Off the top of my head, I think the "Faythe/Love" theme has the most:

Dystopian Overture (French Horns)
Lord Nafaryus ("Arabelle who means the world to me")
Savior in the Square ("Never in my life did I deserve")
Act of Faythe
Road to Revolution ("I know when there is faith there's always hope")

This isn't including the parts where it's briefly quoted like in 2285 Entr'acte,The Walking Shadow, and Astonishing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 10, 2016, 02:18:28 PM
Great point. Though that's also not one of my favourites, so I stand by my original point. :lol
Title: Dream Theater 'The Astonishing' Review And Giveaway...
Post by: WhatsAnOwlVent on February 10, 2016, 04:52:40 PM
https://www.bigmusicgeek.com/reviews/dreamtheater.html

https://www.bigmusicgeek.com/contests/dreamtheater.html

 ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Crow on February 10, 2016, 05:00:47 PM
legit don't get why ravenskill is getting so much love, i find it one of the least interesting tracks on the first disc
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Train of Naught on February 10, 2016, 05:19:31 PM
Bad opinion zone
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on February 10, 2016, 05:47:43 PM
legit don't get why ravenskill is getting so much love, i find it one of the least interesting tracks on the first disc

As always you are totally wrong.  :loser:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ASacrificedSon on February 10, 2016, 06:00:51 PM
Why do you guys keep saying that?
Parama has his own opinions and such, but you guys say that he is wrong. Why??

I mean, Black Clouds is my favorite Dream Theater album. For you guys it may be wrong, but for me, it isn't. What about people who dislike Ravenskill and thinks its uninteresting. Is that "wrong" or is that a "bad" opinion, simply because their tastes are different?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on February 10, 2016, 06:18:55 PM
Why do you guys keep saying that?
Parama has his own opinions and such, but you guys say that he is wrong. Why??
I more or less see it as harmless fun. It's kind of a thing that me and Parama more or less never agree on anything, so I don't see anything wrong with making a little fun out it.  :justjen
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 10, 2016, 06:25:17 PM
I have listened to it every day since release.   

I can't say I've listened to all of it every day, but I have listened to some of it every day since its release.  It's an addictive record anyway, and it's so long that there are still songs that sound pretty new to me since I have listened to some way more than others.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ASacrificedSon on February 10, 2016, 06:35:56 PM
Why do you guys keep saying that?
Parama has his own opinions and such, but you guys say that he is wrong. Why??
I more or less see it as harmless fun. It's kind of a thing that me and Parama more or less never agree on anything, so I don't see anything wrong with making a little fun out it.  :justjen

Oh I see.
Sorry if I sounded so judgmental. I didn't mean to say it like that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on February 10, 2016, 06:51:32 PM
Why do you guys keep saying that?
Parama has his own opinions and such, but you guys say that he is wrong. Why??

I mean, Black Clouds is my favorite Dream Theater album. For you guys it may be wrong, but for me, it isn't. What about people who dislike Ravenskill and thinks its uninteresting. Is that "wrong" or is that a "bad" opinion, simply because their tastes are different?

don't worry, not all of us see music as having objective quality. there is no 'bad' or 'good'
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ASacrificedSon on February 10, 2016, 06:55:36 PM
Why do you guys keep saying that?
Parama has his own opinions and such, but you guys say that he is wrong. Why??

I mean, Black Clouds is my favorite Dream Theater album. For you guys it may be wrong, but for me, it isn't. What about people who dislike Ravenskill and thinks its uninteresting. Is that "wrong" or is that a "bad" opinion, simply because their tastes are different?

don't worry, not all of us see music as having objective quality. there is no 'bad' or 'good'

True, true. Thanks!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bacong on February 10, 2016, 06:56:26 PM
:3

So you listened to the album once in the last week. :lol Plus 2 songs again presumably. Which ones were they?

can I get some love now (https://i.imgur.com/FfpPE9s.jpg)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MA2SWAWIDWJ on February 10, 2016, 09:28:53 PM
So far, there are several tracks I love, but the rest just blur together, and so far I don't really like Act II at all.
The high points on this album are way up there, and reminds of the type of writing they haven't done since SFAM/SDOIT, and are easily the best I've heard in the MM era, but there are too many misses for me at this point, and too many songs that felt like they started the same. Three Days is classic DT, and the kind of thing I've been itching to hear for a long time. Hits the spot goooood. I've already listened to it more than anything from ADTOE and DT12 combined.

Let's see how I feel after a few more listens though. :)

I think that the quintessential DT sound we have been looking for is in MOB and TPTD im not just picking those because they are heavy they just feel so DT to me....that being said....CHOSEN was the first song that i had to listen to again and again. Ive got the whole album memorized at this point though and this albums compilation is already stuck in my head all day every day. My gf gave me that "REALLY?" Look while we were doing ....."extracurricular activities" and i was humming road to revolution.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on February 10, 2016, 09:29:00 PM
https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."

Amen brother!  I have been waiting so long for DT to get to this point, they are just too talented not to. I sincerely hope they continue along these lines. If it's not metal enough for you, then there's plenty of other bands to bang your head to.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 10, 2016, 09:31:23 PM
https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."

Amen brother!  I have been waiting so long for DT to get to this point, they are just too talented not to. I sincerely hope they continue along these lines. If it's not metal enough for you, then there's plenty of other bands to bang your head to.

 :tup :tup to JR's comment.  He is basically saying in a nice way, "Upset there's not enough metal?  Go cry about it somewhere else."  And I totally agree with him.  DT has 12 other studio albums, almost all of which have quite a bit of metal.  If you want metal, go listen to those and stop crying that TA isn't something you want it to be, rather than what it is. /end rant :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 10, 2016, 09:31:44 PM
Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."
This makes me so happy.
I hope they continue this trend.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 10, 2016, 09:31:58 PM
https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."

Amen brother!  I have been waiting so long for DT to get to this point, they are just too talented not to. I sincerely hope they continue along these lines. If it's not metal enough for you, then there's plenty of other bands to bang your head to.

This reminds me of the Slayer analogy.  Also they have plenty of metal in older albums.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on February 10, 2016, 09:36:01 PM
Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."

Are they... out of the preconceived box now?  :o  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 10, 2016, 09:38:21 PM
I want a karaoke version of Chosen and I will sing it to my wife!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on February 11, 2016, 02:12:01 AM
That intro to 'A life left behind' are you f'in' kidding me???  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Luoto on February 11, 2016, 03:47:49 AM
And yeah, absolutely gorgeous Evangeline theme almost isn't featured at all.

Based on new insight from Jordan Rudess, I think A Better Life shares at least one theme with The X Aspect. Inverted. Those bastards :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 11, 2016, 05:21:46 AM
https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."

Amen brother!  I have been waiting so long for DT to get to this point, they are just too talented not to. I sincerely hope they continue along these lines. If it's not metal enough for you, then there's plenty of other bands to bang your head to.

This reminds me of the Slayer analogy.  Also they have plenty of metal in older albums.


All of the above.

It's their 13th album. For goondess sake. They can do something different.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 11, 2016, 06:01:01 AM
 :facepalm: the outright hatred for this album elsewhere on the web is ludicrous.

" it's not heavy...it's bland and boring...i didn't think they could make a shitter album than Systematic chaos.....20 minutes of good music at best......not one good song ".

Yes this was on a metal forum.  No surprises there.

NO METAL ? TEH SUK :angry:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 11, 2016, 06:10:01 AM
Where are all of the reasonable people in between the two ridiculous extremes?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Train of Naught on February 11, 2016, 06:10:18 AM
Not at Metallica forums ^
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 11, 2016, 06:12:02 AM
Nor DTF. :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 11, 2016, 06:18:59 AM
Where are all of the reasonable people in between the two ridiculous extremes?


Not on the internet.

Where everything is either " OMFH AMAZOING WTFFF SO G~OOD "

or

" WORST ALBUM EVER MADE IN THE HISTORY OF MUSIC "
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 11, 2016, 06:22:55 AM
Where are all of the reasonable people in between the two ridiculous extremes?


Not on the internet.

Where everything is either " OMFH AMAZOING WTFFF SO G~OOD "

or

" WORST ALBUM EVER MADE IN THE HISTORY OF MUSIC "

And I'm getting sick of hearing both about TA, and hearing each side bitch about the other side. :lol

I should time travel to half a year into the future, when we can get back to arguing about hairstyles and polls about which album title font is the best. :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on February 11, 2016, 06:29:11 AM
STOP DISLIKING WHAT I LIKE ZOMG.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Podaar on February 11, 2016, 06:30:50 AM
Why don't you guys go find a different bowl of cereal to piss in? Spoil sports.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 11, 2016, 06:32:44 AM
Who you talking to?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on February 11, 2016, 06:37:19 AM
Why don't you guys go find a different bowl of cereal to piss shit in? Spoil sports.

It's like you're new here or something.  At least get the cereal reference right!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on February 11, 2016, 06:44:46 AM
I don't see this album as being received any differently than all the others. It's usually 1/3 love, 1/3 like, 1/3 dislike.
Seems the same now.

Personally if they decide to slowly move away from the metal I'm cool with it. I've got their discography to revisit any time
and thousands of other metal albums to scratch that itch. I vote for staying outside their comfort zone from here on out
and being more experimental. Or better said, creating whatever they feel like creating and not feeling boxed in or pressured
by the fans.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 11, 2016, 07:01:42 AM
Where are all of the reasonable people in between the two ridiculous extremes?

Which extremes would that be?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on February 11, 2016, 07:06:00 AM
Where are all of the reasonable people in between the two ridiculous extremes?

Which extremes would that be?

IF I am reading this right (it's damn hard to tell), it looks like there are people on the internet that are butthurt that there isn't enough metal on this.  As demonstrated, there are an equal amount of people here at the other end, who are butthurt at the metal butthurt folks, saying they've transcended metal in some fashion.

Paraphrasing on my part.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 11, 2016, 07:08:32 AM
I thought the concept of extremes was self explanatory. Kotowboy got it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: GasparXR on February 11, 2016, 07:13:03 AM
Ohhh you guys. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Azyiu on February 11, 2016, 07:30:16 AM
With my luck, I just got my copy today and am listening to it for the first time ever as I am typing this!! So far so good!!  :metal

Speaking of the new DT album, you wouldn't believe my luck!! So I went to this cd shop first day it came out, and they've got a copy of the disc... cool, right? So as soon as I grabbed it, I noticed some rattling sound coming from within as I was carrying it. I asked the shop to open it for me to check what's wrong before I decide whether to buy that copy. One of the discs came loose, and it was actually scratched!! Guess what? That's the ONLY copy they have!! And I haven't a chance to look elsewhere until today!!  :facepalm:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 11, 2016, 07:40:02 AM
I thought the concept of extremes was self explanatory. Kotowboy got it.

It is. But your term "reasonable" is contradictory to the extremes. Why can't it be reasonable that some people hate it or love it? The opinions here are not a microcosm of the actual responses to the CD. Besides, from what I've read there have been plenty of reasonable reactions to the new CD.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 11, 2016, 07:49:48 AM
DT posted a video on fb of them answering fan questions, I haven't seen the video yet cause I'm at work but where are they getting these questions from?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on February 11, 2016, 07:55:48 AM
Psychic connections.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DreamerTV on February 11, 2016, 08:00:39 AM
Been reading DT facebook page for the first time in weeks, i have to say that the level of criticism is pretty high, even for Dt standards.
Expected as it was for this kind of album, maybe more than the sold copies of the album, the success, or failure, of the tour will say us more about the future of the band.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 11, 2016, 09:16:04 AM
I thought the concept of extremes was self explanatory. Kotowboy got it.

:hifive:

The Internet. Home of hyperbole ! No grey area allowed !
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 11, 2016, 09:33:43 AM
https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."

Amen brother!  I have been waiting so long for DT to get to this point, they are just too talented not to. I sincerely hope they continue along these lines. If it's not metal enough for you, then there's plenty of other bands to bang your head to.

 :tup :tup to JR's comment.  He is basically saying in a nice way, "Upset there's not enough metal?  Go cry about it somewhere else."  And I totally agree with him.  DT has 12 other studio albums, almost all of which have quite a bit of metal.  If you want metal, go listen to those and stop crying that TA isn't something you want it to be, rather than what it is. /end rant :P
There's a decent amount of heavy parts on this album and JP is using his 7 string quite a bit.

Just off the top of my head, these songs on TA definitely have a metal vibe in some places: The Gift of Music, Lord Nafaryus, Three Days, A Tempting Offer, A New Beginning, Moment of Betrayal, Heaven's Cove, The Path That Divides, The Walking Shadow, and My Last Farewell.

Hell, you could stick The Path That Divides on Train of Thought and Moment of Betrayal on DT12 and they'd fit.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 11, 2016, 09:47:40 AM
I think 2285 Entr'acte is modeled after The Last Few Bricks.
For non-Floyd fans; The Last Few Bricks (https://youtu.be/frTcvz68Lhg) is an instrumental piece that Pink Floyd performed on The Wall shows, it -among other tracks- was not on the studio version of the album, but was released on the live album.
Roger Waters said later that they wrote the song to give the stage hands more time to finalize the building of the wall on stage before they get to the song Goodbye Cruel World, which in the album's story line completes the psychological barrier the lead character has been building around himself for isolation and alienation from society, it ends the first CD of the double album.
The Last Few Bricks compiles musical themes from the first CD.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 11, 2016, 10:21:30 AM
First two listens of A Life Left Behind: that intro kinda sounds like Porcupine Tree.
Third listen: wow the whole song sounds like Porcupine Tree!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on February 11, 2016, 10:23:32 AM
The fact that there is less heavy stuff on the album makes the heavy stuff that there is stand out more.  So much better when it isn't overkill.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on February 11, 2016, 10:25:07 AM
Does anyone remember in around December people were (for some reason) questioning whether the album would be released before the tour kicks off. Definitely there was talk on the Facebook group about it as well.

Could you imagine first time listening to this live before hearing the CD? How much would fly over your head? I've listened to this nearly every day and am still finding recurring themes and tidbits.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on February 11, 2016, 10:26:17 AM
The fact that there is less heavy stuff on the album makes the heavy stuff that there is stand out more.  So much better when it isn't overkill.

Exactly what Mangini said in his Facebook post earlier this week. Can't wait 1 week to the show  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on February 11, 2016, 11:37:02 AM
Been reading DT facebook page for the first time in weeks, i have to say that the level of criticism is pretty high, even for Dt standards.
Expected as it was for this kind of album, maybe more than the sold copies of the album, the success, or failure, of the tour will say us more about the future of the band.

What a bunch of boorish douches, after the amount of work the band put into this. Talk about not getting the concept. They were intentionally going for a symphonic rock opera. The critics must have been living under a rock if they expected a full-on metal onslaught.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 11, 2016, 11:46:12 AM
The fact that there is less heavy stuff on the album makes the heavy stuff that there is stand out more.  So much better when it isn't overkill.

Exactly and totally this! Said from a metalhead.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 11, 2016, 11:47:38 AM
IT'S NOT TOO LATE

I WON'T BETRAY HIIIIM

*PUNKASS RIFF*
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 11, 2016, 12:18:29 PM
I hate djent but I like the djent-ish riff in My Last Farewell.   2:50

In fact I put on Begin Again today and couldn't stop listening until the end of the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 11, 2016, 12:19:08 PM
The fact that there is less heavy stuff on the album makes the heavy stuff that there is stand out more.  So much better when it isn't overkill.

Exactly and totally this! Said from a metalhead.

I said the same thing too.  Like when they do decide to start shredding - it really stands out as a highlight.


130 mins of solo trade offs would be tedious.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on February 11, 2016, 12:35:03 PM
IT'S NOT TOO LATE

I WON'T BETRAY HIIIIM

*PUNKASS RIFF*

This reminds me, does anyone know what the choir says during this time?

All I could pick up was "Daryus. Arhys. ?????. Pray for your Life?"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 11, 2016, 12:38:07 PM
IT'S NOT TOO LATE

I WON'T BETRAY HIIIIM

*PUNKASS RIFF*

This reminds me, does anyone know what the choir says during this time?

All I could pick up was "Daryus. Arhys. ?????. Pray for your Life?"

I picked up 'RAAAAW DOOG'
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YOWspotter on February 11, 2016, 12:53:34 PM
https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."
Disappointing commentary right there by JR, but I'm unsurprised that it's coming from him.

I don't think any reasonable dissenter has suggested that this record isn't a great accomplishment, and one that they shouldn't be proud of.  Nor do I think that any reasonable dissenter has suggested that the band compose "driving metal the whole time".

His comments make it seem like he's unable to filter away mindless criticisms of haters who seem to expect DT to be Slayer 2.0.  Guess what?  There's a component of DT fans who were and are attracted to the band's metal influences.  That doesn't mean we expect balls-to-the-wall shredding for 80 minutes ...

In this one statement he basically gives us the one-finger salute, telling us that we should go elsewhere to fulfil that need because they've matured beyond our tastes.  I guess there's no room left on the wagon for us anymore?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 11, 2016, 01:00:35 PM
Well, you are definitely reading more into what he said than, well, what he said.


I would also just like to report that The Path That Divides rocks my face.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YOWspotter on February 11, 2016, 01:10:27 PM
Well, you are definitely reading more into what he said than, well, what he said.


I would also just like to report that The Path That Divides rocks my face.
I agree about The Path, and I quoted that one as a standout on TA for me in an earlier post.  I'd suggest that this track contains the elements of "metal" that DT gives us that we like, while remaining unquestionably DT.

Just checking to make sure I'm still allowed to like that style of DT and request (dare I say expect) more of that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 11, 2016, 01:17:59 PM
You're allowed to do anything you like.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on February 11, 2016, 01:18:29 PM
*relieves himself on floor of the thread*
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on February 11, 2016, 01:23:55 PM
Well, you are definitely reading more into what he said than, well, what he said.


I would also just like to report that The Path That Divides rocks my face.

Bet you say that to all the prog bands.


When haven't people figured out that DT is more than just metal?  It's only been like this forever.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 11, 2016, 01:24:36 PM
I would also just like to report that The Path That Divides rocks my face.

That's a disturbing vision.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 11, 2016, 01:45:29 PM
https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."
Disappointing commentary right there by JR, but I'm unsurprised that it's coming from him.

I don't think any reasonable dissenter has suggested that this record isn't a great accomplishment, and one that they shouldn't be proud of.  Nor do I think that any reasonable dissenter has suggested that the band compose "driving metal the whole time".

His comments make it seem like he's unable to filter away mindless criticisms of haters who seem to expect DT to be Slayer 2.0.  Guess what?  There's a component of DT fans who were and are attracted to the band's metal influences.  That doesn't mean we expect balls-to-the-wall shredding for 80 minutes ...

In this one statement he basically gives us the one-finger salute, telling us that we should go elsewhere to fulfil that need because they've matured beyond our tastes.  I guess there's no room left on the wagon for us anymore?

His post was spot on, given that it was directly in response to people literally saying that The Astonishing is not metal enough, and many of them doing so in a very disrespectful way.  If you cannot distinguish between those kinds of posts, on one hand, vs. those respectfully saying they are attracted to DT's more metal side, then the fact that you completely missed Jordan's point is on you rather than him.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 11, 2016, 02:02:11 PM
I actually like that response by JR, "Oh you don't think it's metal enough, that's fine, there are other metal bands for you to listen too"  FUCK YEA. 

The album is definitely more soft than any other DT album, but there is still a shit ton of heavy metal in this.  The music is beautiful and tasteful and is part of the story.  What kind of story is all out balls to the wall metal?  Most other concept albums and rock operas have a large "soft" side to them because it's part of the mood of telling the story.

This is coming from a metal fan, someone who got into DT because of the heaviness, but it is their melody that really keeps me into them.  The melodies are awesome on this album, my biggest problem with the album is that some of the best melodies aren't repeated.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 11, 2016, 02:11:25 PM
https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."
Disappointing commentary right there by JR, but I'm unsurprised that it's coming from him.

I don't think any reasonable dissenter has suggested that this record isn't a great accomplishment, and one that they shouldn't be proud of.  Nor do I think that any reasonable dissenter has suggested that the band compose "driving metal the whole time".

His comments make it seem like he's unable to filter away mindless criticisms of haters who seem to expect DT to be Slayer 2.0.  Guess what?  There's a component of DT fans who were and are attracted to the band's metal influences.  That doesn't mean we expect balls-to-the-wall shredding for 80 minutes ...

In this one statement he basically gives us the one-finger salute, telling us that we should go elsewhere to fulfil that need because they've matured beyond our tastes.  I guess there's no room left on the wagon for us anymore?

He didn't give anyone the one-finger salute, you're just seeing what you want to see.

Dream Theater has released previously full-on metal albums that are meant to please people of your tastes (I presume), like Train of Thought and Systematic Chaos, so why couldn't they release something this time around that was more grounded on the band's softer side? After 13 albums, they've done and recorded A HELL LOT of music, so there's something for everyone in those 9+ hours of music the band has put out. I agree with JR in his statement, because this album feels really mature and really sincere; they wanted to write a musical, and they wrote a musical without worrying too much on what would people think, and that risk is what has made Dream Theater successful in the past.

If you're not comfortable with change and progression, you can always check out Megadeth's Dystopia new album. Plenty of riffs there, just like the ones they have been playing for 20+ years.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on February 11, 2016, 02:19:20 PM
A HELL LOT
Sounds like a Parking Lot where every time you find an empty space, a car gets there before you.

If you're not comfortable with change and progression, you can always check out Megadeth's Dystopia new album.

I would also recommend Symphony X's Underworld, which came out a few months ago. I didn't really like the fact that they've gone super heavy for their past 2 albums, but now that The Astonishing is out, I realize its a perfect complement if I'm craving the really heavy stuff.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 11, 2016, 02:49:04 PM
The album is definitely more soft than any other DT album, but there is still a shit ton of heavy metal in this.  The music is beautiful and tasteful and is part of the story.  What kind of story is all out balls to the wall metal?  Most other concept albums and rock operas have a large "soft" side to them because it's part of the mood of telling the story.

Isn't FII a bit softer? Sure, there's NM, PS, BMS, LitS and JLMB which are quite heavy, though more in a rock way than a metal way. TA has Three Days, A Tempting Offer, Moment of Betrayal, The Path That Divides and The Walking Shadow / My Last Farewell that are definitely driven by a metallic heaviness, among quite a few other songs like A Better Life, Lord Nafaryus, Ravenskill and A New Beginning which have prominent heavy sections. It might be pretty close, actually. I'm not really sure about it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Another_Won on February 11, 2016, 03:03:48 PM
A HELL LOT
Sounds like a Parking Lot where every time you find an empty space, a car gets there before you.
.
or one where the best spot is always reserved by a cone.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 11, 2016, 03:06:41 PM
The album is definitely more soft than any other DT album, but there is still a shit ton of heavy metal in this.  The music is beautiful and tasteful and is part of the story.  What kind of story is all out balls to the wall metal?  Most other concept albums and rock operas have a large "soft" side to them because it's part of the mood of telling the story.

Isn't FII a bit softer? Sure, there's NM, PS, BMS, LitS and JLMB which are quite heavy, though more in a rock way than a metal way. TA has Three Days, A Tempting Offer, Moment of Betrayal, The Path That Divides and The Walking Shadow / My Last Farewell that are definitely driven by a metallic heaviness, among quite a few other songs like A Better Life, Lord Nafaryus, Ravenskill and A New Beginning which have prominent heavy sections. It might be pretty close, actually. I'm not really sure about it.

Might be true.  The thing is even a lot of the heavy songs have really soft parts and the album lengths are quite different so hard to compare.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 11, 2016, 03:18:39 PM
DT need to get more jazzy again.

Lines In The Sand is one of their top 3 songs for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: nikatapi on February 11, 2016, 03:28:28 PM
DT need to get more jazzy again.

Lines In The Sand is one of their top 3 songs for me.

So much this. I love their jazzy moments.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YOWspotter on February 11, 2016, 03:51:21 PM
Quote
He didn't give anyone the one-finger salute, you're just seeing what you want to see.
Actually it's quite the contrary, I saw what I was afraid of seeing, not what I wanted to see.

Quote from: bosk1
His post was spot on, given that it was directly in response to people literally saying that The Astonishing is not metal enough, and many of them doing so in a very disrespectful way.  If you cannot distinguish between those kinds of posts, on one hand, vs. those respectfully saying they are attracted to DT's more metal side, then the fact that you completely missed Jordan's point is on you rather than him.
I'll concede guilt in that I didn't read the interview from which the quotation was extracted; I merely read it as posted in this thread and took it as if to say "we're shedding the metal side of DT as we mature, so tough luck if that's what you like".

Quote from: cramx
The album is definitely more soft than any other DT album, but there is still a shit ton of heavy metal in this.  The music is beautiful and tasteful and is part of the story.  What kind of story is all out balls to the wall metal?  Most other concept albums and rock operas have a large "soft" side to them because it's part of the mood of telling the story.

This is coming from a metal fan, someone who got into DT because of the heaviness, but it is their melody that really keeps me into them.  The melodies are awesome on this album, my biggest problem with the album is that some of the best melodies aren't repeated.
This pretty much sums why I got into DT and remain so.  It also expresses some of my feelings about this record.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 11, 2016, 04:32:27 PM
The album is definitely more soft than any other DT album, but there is still a shit ton of heavy metal in this.  The music is beautiful and tasteful and is part of the story.  What kind of story is all out balls to the wall metal?  Most other concept albums and rock operas have a large "soft" side to them because it's part of the mood of telling the story.

Isn't FII a bit softer? Sure, there's NM, PS, BMS, LitS and JLMB which are quite heavy, though more in a rock way than a metal way. TA has Three Days, A Tempting Offer, Moment of Betrayal, The Path That Divides and The Walking Shadow / My Last Farewell that are definitely driven by a metallic heaviness, among quite a few other songs like A Better Life, Lord Nafaryus, Ravenskill and A New Beginning which have prominent heavy sections. It might be pretty close, actually. I'm not really sure about it.

Might be true.  The thing is even a lot of the heavy songs have really soft parts and the album lengths are quite different so hard to compare.

Yeah, good point. I guess there are more extremes in TA as well as more frequent dynamic changes that skew the perception of heaviness. It's not really an issue to me, though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 11, 2016, 04:37:18 PM
As much as I appreciate James being able to go to town on the material, I still think a female singer would have enriched the album immensely. Especially for the weeping intro of Losing Faythe, where clearly a guy is trying to sound like a woman.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 11, 2016, 04:41:38 PM
As much as I appreciate James being able to go to town on the material, I still think a female singer would have enriched the album immensely. Especially for the weeping intro of Losing Faythe, where clearly a guy is trying to sound like a woman.
I'm honestly a little surprised they didn't just use stock sound effects for that section.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 11, 2016, 04:45:54 PM
https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."
Disappointing commentary right there by JR, but I'm unsurprised that it's coming from him.

I don't think any reasonable dissenter has suggested that this record isn't a great accomplishment, and one that they shouldn't be proud of.  Nor do I think that any reasonable dissenter has suggested that the band compose "driving metal the whole time".

His comments make it seem like he's unable to filter away mindless criticisms of haters who seem to expect DT to be Slayer 2.0.  Guess what?  There's a component of DT fans who were and are attracted to the band's metal influences.  That doesn't mean we expect balls-to-the-wall shredding for 80 minutes ...

In this one statement he basically gives us the one-finger salute, telling us that we should go elsewhere to fulfil that need because they've matured beyond our tastes.  I guess there's no room left on the wagon for us anymore?

That's not what he's saying. You're completely misconstruing the meaning behind his words. He is completely within his right to say what he said, and it's well within reason. The members of the band don't owe us anything except the music THEY want to make. If this was a complete all out metal album, another group would be complaining about the sound. All Dream Theater can do is make music they're passionate about and either we're going to either like it or not. This disrespectful commentary coming from some people is uncalled for. It's one thing to not like it, but when it becomes insults and cheap shots, grow the fuck up.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: AngelBack on February 11, 2016, 04:51:09 PM
Couldn't agree more Progsnob...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YOWspotter on February 11, 2016, 05:01:54 PM
https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."
Disappointing commentary right there by JR, but I'm unsurprised that it's coming from him.

I don't think any reasonable dissenter has suggested that this record isn't a great accomplishment, and one that they shouldn't be proud of.  Nor do I think that any reasonable dissenter has suggested that the band compose "driving metal the whole time".

His comments make it seem like he's unable to filter away mindless criticisms of haters who seem to expect DT to be Slayer 2.0.  Guess what?  There's a component of DT fans who were and are attracted to the band's metal influences.  That doesn't mean we expect balls-to-the-wall shredding for 80 minutes ...

In this one statement he basically gives us the one-finger salute, telling us that we should go elsewhere to fulfil that need because they've matured beyond our tastes.  I guess there's no room left on the wagon for us anymore?

That's not what he's saying. You're completely misconstruing the meaning behind his words. He is completely within his right to say what he said, and it's well within reason. The members of the band don't owe us anything except the music THEY want to make. If this was a complete all out metal album, another group would be complaining about the sound. All Dream Theater can do is make music they're passionate about and either we're going to either like it or not. This disrespectful commentary coming from some people is uncalled for. It's one thing to not like it, but when it becomes insults and cheap shots, grow the fuck up.
You may want to read a few posts above where I concluded my thoughts on JR's comment.  The post you've quoted has been superseded by that one.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 11, 2016, 05:05:42 PM
https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."
Disappointing commentary right there by JR, but I'm unsurprised that it's coming from him.

I don't think any reasonable dissenter has suggested that this record isn't a great accomplishment, and one that they shouldn't be proud of.  Nor do I think that any reasonable dissenter has suggested that the band compose "driving metal the whole time".

His comments make it seem like he's unable to filter away mindless criticisms of haters who seem to expect DT to be Slayer 2.0.  Guess what?  There's a component of DT fans who were and are attracted to the band's metal influences.  That doesn't mean we expect balls-to-the-wall shredding for 80 minutes ...

In this one statement he basically gives us the one-finger salute, telling us that we should go elsewhere to fulfil that need because they've matured beyond our tastes.  I guess there's no room left on the wagon for us anymore?

That's not what he's saying. You're completely misconstruing the meaning behind his words. He is completely within his right to say what he said, and it's well within reason. The members of the band don't owe us anything except the music THEY want to make. If this was a complete all out metal album, another group would be complaining about the sound. All Dream Theater can do is make music they're passionate about and either we're going to either like it or not. This disrespectful commentary coming from some people is uncalled for. It's one thing to not like it, but when it becomes insults and cheap shots, grow the fuck up.
You may want to read a few posts above where I concluded my thoughts on JR's comment.  The post you've quoted has been superseded by that one.

I may want to? What if I don't want to?   ;)  Kidding, of course. My comment wasn't necessarily just directed at you. It was also an overall statement to everyone who thinks DT owes them something, or just anyone in general who makes caustic and disrespectful comments.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on February 11, 2016, 06:41:45 PM
They should have invited Mike Portnoy for My Last Farewell

"Hear my last farewell!!"
"ROOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRHH!!"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 11, 2016, 06:48:17 PM
So basically what JR is saying is that they have matured to the point that they are just making music, not really mindful of the labels or the genre of the music they are making.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on February 11, 2016, 07:00:52 PM
So the crying voices in Losing Faythe are not stock? To whom the voices belong? Was that been established?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 11, 2016, 07:13:52 PM
They can not possibly be stock. I mean, they're bad, really bad.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 11, 2016, 07:25:47 PM
They can not possibly be stock. I mean, they're bad, really bad.

Yeah, that was a bit amateurish. I was also underwhelmed with the grunts during the Arhys and Daryus swordfight, although it does sound like how they would do it in theatrical settings.

But the sound of Faythe after she was stabbed, that gets a  :tup for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: nicmos on February 11, 2016, 07:27:57 PM
They should have invited Mike Portnoy for My Last Farewell

"Hear my last farewell!!"
"ROOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRHH!!"

 :lol

seriously though, that would have worked better.  first time I heard that scream, I thought he was killing himself.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jammindude on February 11, 2016, 11:04:14 PM
My review of The Astonishing.    In a nutshell...I draw comparisons to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

https://youtu.be/qH6C3gaIsjc
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 12, 2016, 03:26:40 AM
My review of The Astonishing.    In a nutshell...I draw comparisons to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

https://youtu.be/qH6C3gaIsjc

Cool review. The comparison is quite apt when you put it like you have.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on February 12, 2016, 09:34:35 AM
Spun this again this morning while on a long road trip visiting customers. Don't get me wrong I really like the first part of Disc 1...
really like it, but from the point of A Life Left Behind all the way through Disc 2 this is masterpiece level music. Yes I finally said it.
The twisted part of me feels like a traitor for saying that because I'm such an MP fanboy but holy crap, everything I've ever loved about
DT is represented in that run of songs and SO many new and different things also. I'm still not going to rate this but my sense
now is that this will be up there right beside the top 3 DT albums.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 12, 2016, 10:24:01 AM
I have found The Astonishing to be a masterpiece, but still "exhausting" in a way. I have only been able to listen to it all the way through about 6 times. I just don't feel the desire to listen to it on repeat like so many other albums when they are new. I don't believe this is an album that will wear out for me, as i won't listen to it so much that i get sick of it. I still have to listen to it a few more times before the concert in two weeks. I feel like i want to be a bit more familiar with it before seing the show!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on February 12, 2016, 10:43:17 AM
I have found The Astonishing to be a masterpiece, but still "exhausting" in a way. I have only been able to listen to it all the way through about 6 times. I just don't feel the desire to listen to it on repeat like so many other albums when they are new.

Totally agree. I even have to stop and take a quick break between acts.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 12, 2016, 11:09:15 AM
I don't think I could listen to the entire thing in one go.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: zmazar on February 12, 2016, 11:14:20 AM
So now that I've finally just sat down and listened to it with decent headphones a couple of times (rather than just blasting it in my car) I've realized that there are actually a lot more references to the NOMACS subtly through several of the other tracks.  Seemingly just watching everything unravel.  The musical themes through each major section (designated by NOMACS) is so well done.  This album took a while for me to really start enjoying, but I got there.

I've also come to realize that Our New World just drives me crazy.  I feel like the plot really doesn't get advanced that much.  I wish they just removed it, and replaced it with The Astonishing.  Then just end with Power Down.  I feel like that would have been an epic ending.   
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 12, 2016, 11:20:40 AM
Remove Our New World ?

That's silly !

You're silly ! :angry: !
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on February 12, 2016, 11:27:03 AM
I think that the way to (hypothetically) improve The Astonishing is to actually add more music rather than remove songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 12, 2016, 11:45:04 AM
I think that the way to (hypothetically) improve The Astonishing is to actually add more music rather than remove songs.
Agreed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on February 12, 2016, 11:51:55 AM
Remove Our New World ?

That's silly !

You're silly ! :angry: !

For sure. I wish that song was longer.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on February 12, 2016, 12:13:09 PM
As much as I appreciate James being able to go to town on the material, I still think a female singer would have enriched the album immensely. Especially for the weeping intro of Losing Faythe, where clearly a guy is trying to sound like a woman.

I was thinking exactly this last night, but in terms of the live show.  It’s going to be a bear for James to do all of this night after night, so I wonder if they would hire someone for the female parts?  Like maybe that Teresa girl from the SFAM concert, she was great.  I really hope they do this even though I won’t get to see it as they are not coming to Vancouver 

Also, I finally sat down last night and listened to it all while reading the story and the lyrics.  The story is pretty decent until the end when it falls flat.  And what the heck is the point of the NOMACS anyways?  It just kinda feels forced.  I wish they got some professional help to smooth things out a bit.  Nowhere near as good as the ending of SFAM which is epic.

But whatever, its really about the music.  And I think I am now prepared to put TA neck and neck with SFAM as their best album ever, ahead of 6DOIT.  I think the music may be a little better on TA, but the story is better on SFAM.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 12, 2016, 12:19:28 PM
They've already confirmed that no additional musicians or singers will be with them, so James is gonna go Faythe on us!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on February 12, 2016, 01:02:39 PM
I think the issue with the story is that we all expected an epic showdown between Ravenskill and TGNE and all we got was a couple Shakespearean tragedies.  So after 133 minutes of epic music and an intricate storyline to go with it, it sort of just... ends. 

I love Our new World.... I think it's great.  I think the song "The Astonishing" is kind of pointless to be honest.  As an epic closer and the title track I wish this song would have actually been epic rather than just a brief showcase for each character.

Honestly, for me its really the stretch from Hymn of a Thousand Words to the end of the album that keeps it from being in my top 3.  Hymn is my least favorite song on the album, our new world is awesome but it comes with a slightly underwhelming resolution of the story, and The Astonishing is somewhat of an afterthought and obviously has nothing on Finally Free IMO.

So... TA sits at #4 in my rankings.  Not too shabby considering nothing has penetrated my top 6 since SDOIT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dream416 on February 12, 2016, 01:04:42 PM
https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."
Disappointing commentary right there by JR, but I'm unsurprised that it's coming from him.

I don't think any reasonable dissenter has suggested that this record isn't a great accomplishment, and one that they shouldn't be proud of.  Nor do I think that any reasonable dissenter has suggested that the band compose "driving metal the whole time".

His comments make it seem like he's unable to filter away mindless criticisms of haters who seem to expect DT to be Slayer 2.0.  Guess what?  There's a component of DT fans who were and are attracted to the band's metal influences.  That doesn't mean we expect balls-to-the-wall shredding for 80 minutes ...

In this one statement he basically gives us the one-finger salute, telling us that we should go elsewhere to fulfil that need because they've matured beyond our tastes.  I guess there's no room left on the wagon for us anymore?

That's not what he's saying. You're completely misconstruing the meaning behind his words. He is completely within his right to say what he said, and it's well within reason. The members of the band don't owe us anything except the music THEY want to make. If this was a complete all out metal album, another group would be complaining about the sound. All Dream Theater can do is make music they're passionate about and either we're going to either like it or not. This disrespectful commentary coming from some people is uncalled for. It's one thing to not like it, but when it becomes insults and cheap shots, grow the fuck up.


+1000.......This exactly.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lovethedrake on February 12, 2016, 01:05:02 PM
Also, don't mistake this for "they should have done this, they should have done that" fodder.   I absolutely love the album, these are just very nitpicky things that I think would have made it even better than the awesome piece of art that it already is.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 12, 2016, 01:07:36 PM
They've already confirmed that no additional musicians or singers will be with them, so James is gonna go Faythe on us!

I heard he's going to don his makeup from the Winter Rose days.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on February 12, 2016, 01:40:36 PM
They've already confirmed that no additional musicians or singers will be with them, so James is gonna go Faythe on us!

OK but they could still pull a rabbit out of the hat for the NY DVD show!  Teresa as Faythe, MP as Nafaryus, Kevin Moore as Xander!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 12, 2016, 01:49:06 PM
They've already confirmed that no additional musicians or singers will be with them, so James is gonna go Faythe on us!

OK but they could still pull a rabbit out of the hat for the NY DVD show!  Teresa as Faythe, MP as Nafaryus, Kevin Moore as Xander!
:lol

Good calls!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on February 12, 2016, 01:49:13 PM
Spun this again this morning while on a long road trip visiting customers. Don't get me wrong I really like the first part of Disc 1...
really like it, but from the point of A Life Left Behind all the way through Disc 2 this is masterpiece level music.
Nailed my feelings exactly. Upon the first listen, I actually wasn't feeling disk 1 at all until A Lie Left Behind - then it was smooth sailing. Now, listening back, I've grown rather fond of the first half of disk 1, but the album doesn't reach its peak for me until A Lie Left Behind, and after it peaks, it stays at its peak.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 12, 2016, 01:52:04 PM
They've already confirmed that no additional musicians or singers will be with them, so James is gonna go Faythe on us!

I heard he's going to don his makeup from the Winter Rose days.
:metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on February 12, 2016, 01:52:15 PM
They've already confirmed that no additional musicians or singers will be with them, so James is gonna go Faythe on us!

OK but they could still pull a rabbit out of the hat for the NY DVD show!  Teresa as Faythe, MP as Nafaryus, Kevin Moore as Xander!
Whoa!  So they are filming the New York show, is this official???
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 12, 2016, 01:53:14 PM
They've already confirmed that no additional musicians or singers will be with them, so James is gonna go Faythe on us!

OK but they could still pull a rabbit out of the hat for the NY DVD show!  Teresa as Faythe, MP as Nafaryus, Kevin Moore as Xander!
Whoa!  So they are filming the New York show, is this official???
No.  There has been no such announcement.  Not sure where that is coming from.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on February 12, 2016, 02:35:49 PM
They've already confirmed that no additional musicians or singers will be with them, so James is gonna go Faythe on us!

OK but they could still pull a rabbit out of the hat for the NY DVD show!  Teresa as Faythe, MP as Nafaryus, Kevin Moore as Xander!
Whoa!  So they are filming the New York show, is this official???
No.  There has been no such announcement.  Not sure where that is coming from.

Is there any truth to the rumor I am starting  ;D

With the amount of effort that has gone onto this album and (I'm sure) the live show, its very likely we will get a DVD (not everyone can see the concert!).  NY was just a wild guess based on where they filmed the SMAF show.  Sorry New Yorkers if I got you a little wound up!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 12, 2016, 02:36:47 PM
They can't afford a tour with orchestra and choir but I'm sure they could afford them for a DVD shoot.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 12, 2016, 02:45:38 PM
I know it's been said before, but I'm just posting a moment of appreciation for the guitar solo at the end of A New Beginning. It's right up there with his best imo. If I were ranking JP solos, I'd currently put it at no. 3, not far behind Breaking All Illusions and Voices.

 :hefdaddy
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on February 12, 2016, 02:47:01 PM
NY was just a wild guess based on where they filmed the SMAF show.  Sorry New Yorkers if I got you a little wound up!

Scenes Mrom a Femory is my favorite album
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chrisbDTM on February 12, 2016, 02:51:49 PM
i hated the album at first, then i warmed up a bit. It's an alright album for me, not as bad as I first thought but still not my thing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 12, 2016, 04:29:37 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BBtD_8wN93-gtt-Cbk6w3K4l-lQbCvwOJbpFkE0/

:) :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 12, 2016, 04:37:12 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BBtD_8wN93-gtt-Cbk6w3K4l-lQbCvwOJbpFkE0/

:) :)

The ASitS into is probably one of JP's best acoustic riffs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 12, 2016, 04:39:50 PM
And it took me ages to get it under my fingers :lol

I'm not the most elegant of guitarists.

However I do have a good ear and worked it out by ear alone. :)

The Our New World intro is too fast for me to play clean.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 12, 2016, 04:49:07 PM
And it took me ages to get it under my fingers :lol

I'm not the most elegant of guitarists.

However I do have a good ear and worked it out by ear alone. :)

The Our New World intro is too fast for me to play clean.

To be fair, it does look a bit fiddly in terms of chord shapes. I can kind of play the ONW riff, though some of the variation in the riff throws me off big time. I don't have great ears for working stuff out, I think the only riff I remember working out by ear is Iron Maiden - Ghost of the Navigator's lead riff.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peter Mc on February 12, 2016, 05:06:16 PM
Don't know where or when but will be amazed if there is not a live DVD and if that DVD does not feature an orchestra, choir etc. I would maybe think that the London Palladium would be a cool venue for that if it had been later in the tour but no way they do they do all that on the opening night.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 12, 2016, 05:57:56 PM
For those who have a difficult time appreciating Act 2, try to listen to it standalone. Sometimes it is hard to listen to it because of fatigue from listening through so many songs in Act 1, but when you listen to Act 2 alone, you would be surprised at how fast the pace of the story is in that Act.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on February 12, 2016, 06:23:22 PM
Don't know where or when but will be amazed if there is not a live DVD and if that DVD does not feature an orchestra, choir etc. I would maybe think that the London Palladium would be a cool venue for that if it had been later in the tour but no way they do they do all that on the opening night.
Being that Dave Campbell is from California and the Orchestra tracks were recorded there, I wouldn't be surprised if they film the concert somewhere in California or up the west coast (just my theory). The Paramount Theater in Seattle is a beautiful venue and would be perfect for this. :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 13, 2016, 12:26:51 AM
Any else get the feeling that Our New World was a JP solo album song?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 13, 2016, 01:00:23 AM
Any else get the feeling that Our New World was a JP solo album song?

Given that the riff is something that seems to need vocals over it unless it is done ala Savior in the Square, I don't get that vibe.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 13, 2016, 01:29:21 AM
While it could have worked instrumental if it had just the leads, I don't get that impression from it at all. The musical idea is reused in other parts of the album too, so I think it was always part of TA.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YtseJamittaja on February 13, 2016, 02:17:53 AM
They've already confirmed that no additional musicians or singers will be with them, so James is gonna go Faythe on us!

Oh dear James with pink wig and hood

I really don't want to see that :lolpalm:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 13, 2016, 03:47:45 AM
They've already confirmed that no additional musicians or singers will be with them, so James is gonna go Faythe on us!

Oh dear James with pink wig and hood

I really don't want to see that :lolpalm:

I f****** do!!!  :yarr (btw, it would be time to create a JLB-Faythe emote).

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 13, 2016, 04:18:48 AM
Two nights ago I had a kinda wacky dream about me seeing DT performing the album live. I dreamt just the beginning, I have vague memories of Dystopian Overture, and then for The Answer they all went acoustic sitting in the middle of the theater to perform the song, so I rushed from the back to where they were so that I could see James singing 50 cm away from my face.

Yeah, I think the anticipation for the show is kinda rising  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 13, 2016, 04:22:07 AM
Any else get the feeling that Our New World was a JP solo album song?
No.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 13, 2016, 07:58:12 AM
Any else get the feeling that Our New World was a JP solo album song?
No.

Yeah, not at all.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 13, 2016, 07:59:56 AM
Any else get the feeling that Our New World was a JP solo album song?
No.

Yeah, not at all.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 13, 2016, 09:42:47 AM
Any else get the feeling that Our New World was a JP solo album song?
No.

It has a pretty strong 6DOIT vibe.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tick on February 13, 2016, 10:01:07 AM
Am I the only that feels at 3:00 of Dystopian Overture = The Lion King?
I can picture Mufassa and Simba strutting out bobbing there heads to the music!  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TH1RT3EN on February 13, 2016, 11:32:59 AM
Am I the only that feels at 3:00 of Dystopian Overture = The Lion King?
I can picture Mufassa and Simba strutting out bobbing there heads to the music!  :lol

That's EXACTLY what I think of whenever I hear that part of the song :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on February 13, 2016, 12:26:13 PM
I also had a dream of them playing TA here...

Then I remember'd they don't have dates here... I literally cried.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tick on February 13, 2016, 12:59:33 PM
Am I the only that feels at 3:00 of Dystopian Overture = The Lion King?
I can picture Mufassa and Simba strutting out bobbing there heads to the music!  :lol

That's EXACTLY what I think of whenever I hear that part of the song :lol
:metal :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JediKnight1969 on February 13, 2016, 01:31:14 PM
They've already confirmed that no additional musicians or singers will be with them, so James is gonna go Faythe on us!

Oh dear James with pink wig and hood

I really don't want to see that :lolpalm:

This came to my mind...

(https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/parody/images/2/24/The.Simpsons_S05_E02_Cape.Feare_101_0001.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140312104426)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gm5k on February 13, 2016, 01:36:34 PM
Am I the only that feels at 3:00 of Dystopian Overture = The Lion King?
I can picture Mufassa and Simba strutting out bobbing there heads to the music!  :lol

That's EXACTLY what I think of whenever I hear that part of the song :lol

Yea same here.  I thought of it immediately and have trouble thinking of anything else when I hear that part...A good thing though, lots of nostalgic feelings there (The Lion King came out when I was a kid) and gets me very hyped for the upcoming music  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 13, 2016, 01:59:01 PM
I just listened to it in full a second (first was on release day) time... wow!  :o It has grown beyond exponentially since last listen. May even beat SDoIT / IaW / Awake for favourite DT album. It's THAT good! There's no filler whatsoever for me and now I consider Act II to nearly be as good as Act I. I even like the NOMAC tracks! The only real complaint I have is with some low quality sound effects.

Fav track atm- My Last Farewell (together with The Walking Shadow)

Least fav- Our New World (lol don't kill me, I still like it but the chorus is a bit repetitive and it doesn't really add anything to the story that 'Astonishing' doesn't)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 13, 2016, 02:05:13 PM
What ONW adds to the story isn't immediately obvious just from listening, but it's Gabriel and Faythe promising to raise young Xander and build a better future, in memory of both his parents.

Another point I keep thinking of: The Road to Revolution, in concept, reminds me in some ways of the Tonight Quintet from West Side Story. Sudden scene changes with the different characters looking ahead in anticipation of the pivotal events to come later that night. Then at the end, everyone comes together (albeit still in their separate locations) to sing the closing lines.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 13, 2016, 02:16:31 PM
What ONW adds to the story isn't immediately obvious just from listening, but it's Gabriel and Faythe promising to raise young Xander and build a better future, in memory of both his parents.

I guess I skewed this Arhys ghost quote:

"He is just a child and still too young to understand.
Show him love and courage, that freedom knows no bounds.
Tell him he could never let me down."

as meaning that but trust me, even though it's my least favourite song on the album, I would definitely not get rid of it.

Another point I keep thinking of: The Road to Revolution, in concept, reminds me in some ways of the Tonight Quintet from West Side Story. Sudden scene changes with the different characters looking ahead in anticipation of the pivotal events to come later that night. Then at the end, everyone comes together (albeit still in their separate locations) to sing the closing lines.


It really is a great way to close the first Act. There's definitely a feeling of anticipation and tension in TRTR.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chaossystem on February 13, 2016, 03:29:35 PM
Last night I had one of the most hilarious coincidences I've ever experienced: I was poking around the internet on a kindle, listening to bits and pieces of The Astonishing to become more familiar with it. At the same time I had the TV on what I am pretty sure was the FXX channel, and it was airing an episode of The Simpsons. It was one of those episodes where they had to relocate to another town for one reason or another, and when one of this place's officials or whatever he was noticed that Lisa had her saxophone with her, Homer responded by saying "my daughter has brought you the gift of music!"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 13, 2016, 03:34:35 PM
The Springfield Militia.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on February 13, 2016, 03:38:25 PM
Awesome coincidence!   :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 13, 2016, 03:51:24 PM
That is totally awesome. :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chaossystem on February 13, 2016, 04:42:41 PM
I just realized what this album kind of reminds me of: to me it sounds vary similar to the soundtrack of the movie Ladyhawke. Very similar to the way Andrew Powell and Alan Parsons used the combination of modern (rock music) instruments and musicians combined with the orchestra and choir. In fact the whole thing has a kind of "Alan Parsons Project vibe" to it. Although there are differences of course, such as that there are actual songs with lyrics, there's a lot more guitar, and most of the music is heavier in general. But if you listen to pretty much any APP album, not just the LH soundtrack, I think you'll see what I mean.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TH1RT3EN on February 13, 2016, 05:32:26 PM
Another point I keep thinking of: The Road to Revolution, in concept, reminds me in some ways of the Tonight Quintet from West Side Story. Sudden scene changes with the different characters looking ahead in anticipation of the pivotal events to come later that night. Then at the end, everyone comes together (albeit still in their separate locations) to sing the closing lines.


It really is a great way to close the first Act. There's definitely a feeling of anticipation and tension in TRTR.

Really? TRtR stands as one of the 5 worst tracks IMO… not only melodically speaking, but it feels like it's there just to sum up the plot up to that point (I don't feel like that's really necessary). Also, removing it would make A New Beginning's fade out solo make much more sense not only as the ending of an act, but also as the last thing before the mid-show break.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 13, 2016, 08:37:00 PM
I like The Road to Revolution, but it might be the biggest tease in the DT catalogue to date.  When you think of how many songs they have where you think, "that could have been a little shorter," that is one that needed to be longer, like 5 1/2 minutes instead of 3 1/2 minutes.  Only singing that chorus once was a crime.  I know they reprise it in the final track on the record, but the song itself is just such a tease.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Fink on February 13, 2016, 09:29:44 PM
I am completely blown away by The Astonishing and i cannot stop listening to it. First time i listened to it i listened in its entirety and completely took it in and understood the story. I love DT my favorite band since 1992 but i am disappointed by the critical nature of many of DT's fans. I just cannot comprehend comparing any new DT release to that of previous albums kinda defeats the purpose of buying anything new by them. How and why could anyone want them to repeat anything they've ever done. Approaching the first time listening experience of a DT record expecting to hear something they've already done of course it won't measure up. Any new album has to be listened with fresh ears free from influence of any other record they have produced. The Astonishing is Amazing! No comparison needed. It stands alone and is the most Beautiful recording they have ever produced. I wept all through my first listening and i knew it was special. I have my headphones on right now listening as i type this and Act of Faythe is playing. This album begs to be listened with your special someone, your lover and i am singular on this night. What a great Valentines experience it would be to listen to this with your woman. I long to share this with a new love. If this post is as cheesey as some think The Astonishing is i am not ashamed. Amazingly beautiful record with moments of hard rocking technical complexity.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on February 13, 2016, 09:56:21 PM
As much as I appreciate James being able to go to town on the material, I still think a female singer would have enriched the album immensely. Especially for the weeping intro of Losing Faythe, where clearly a guy is trying to sound like a woman.

I keep thinking about this.  If it were done right, this would have been so original, so incredibly dynamic, so utterly unexpected that I think it would have pushed this album into the stratosphere. I think it could have resulted in one of the best albums of all time (please excuse the hyperbole).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on February 13, 2016, 10:30:51 PM
I am completely blown away by The Astonishing and i cannot stop listening to it. First time i listened to it i listened in its entirety and completely took it in and understood the story. I love DT my favorite band since 1992 but i am disappointed by the critical nature of many of DT's fans. I just cannot comprehend comparing any new DT release to that of previous albums kinda defeats the purpose of buying anything new by them. How and why could anyone want them to repeat anything they've ever done. Approaching the first time listening experience of a DT record expecting to hear something they've already done of course it won't measure up. Any new album has to be listened with fresh ears free from influence of any other record they have produced. The Astonishing is Amazing! No comparison needed. It stands alone and is the most Beautiful recording they have ever produced. I wept all through my first listening and i knew it was special. I have my headphones on right now listening as i type this and Act of Faythe is playing. This album begs to be listened with your special someone, your lover and i am singular on this night. What a great Valentines experience it would be to listen to this with your woman. I long to share this with a new love. If this post is as cheesey as some think The Astonishing is i am not ashamed. Amazingly beautiful record with moments of hard rocking technical complexity.
Great post, and welcome to DT forums. I agree with everything you said!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on February 13, 2016, 10:50:54 PM
The Fink you have said a lot of things about this album that I feel but didn't express that openly before, cheers bro!
And I hope someday you'd listen to the album when you're plural  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MadImmortalMan on February 14, 2016, 01:45:00 AM
Saying Our New World doesn't add anything to the plot of TA is like saying The Spirit Carries On doesn't add anything to the plot of SFAM. It's not meant to advance the plot, it's supposed to draw out the emotions of what the characters are feeling, and make the situation real and relatable to the listener. Virtually every musical/rock opera/concept album has songs like these. "Gethsemane", "Eyes of a Stranger", "Nobody Home", etc... all serve the same purpose.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 14, 2016, 02:27:20 AM
Our New World is important for showing Gabriel and Faythe's commitment to creating a better world and raising Xander, and showing hope.

And also it's an awesome song, which is all the validation it needs to be there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 14, 2016, 02:28:57 AM
The Answer coulda been a smidge longer too :p
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 14, 2016, 02:41:39 AM
Sooo...Apart from there being no music...Is there anything else about the story that is oppressive ?

Because just having no music would hardly be " a struggle to survive "...

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 14, 2016, 03:04:42 AM
Sooo...Apart from there being no music...Is there anything else about the story that is oppressive ?

Because just having no music would hardly be " a struggle to survive "...

It's a metaphor. Not being able to make music to me means not being able to express one's self. Not being able to exercise creativity. Which is oppressive.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 14, 2016, 03:09:06 AM
And faythe is observing: "I never knew they spent their days in rags", implying that the people are very poor.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 14, 2016, 03:22:04 AM
And faythe is observing: "I never knew they spent their days in rags", implying that the people are very poor.
This. It's pretty classic dystopian setting - rich, powerful leadership living in luxury while the rest toil away just to survive.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 14, 2016, 03:25:27 AM
And faythe is observing: "I never knew they spent their days in rags", implying that the people are very poor.
This. It's pretty classic dystopian setting - rich, powerful leadership living in luxury while the rest toil away just to survive.

Incidentally just like the movie Metropolis, from 1927 (oh so close). METROPOLIS PART 3 CONFIRMED.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: me7 on February 14, 2016, 03:47:59 AM
Whenever I hear "The Road to Revolution", I have to think of "La Resistance" form the South Park film:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LonKGuS9uuQ
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 14, 2016, 05:56:12 AM
Came here to post that this album has now taken over the #1 spot on my list of favorite Dream Theater albums.  I think I'd even call this their Magnum Opus.


Brilliant writing, brilliant musicianship.  Not a single moment across two entire discs that I don't want to hear every time I listen.


5 star album



Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 14, 2016, 06:08:22 AM
And faythe is observing: "I never knew they spent their days in rags", implying that the people are very poor.
This. It's pretty classic dystopian setting - rich, powerful leadership living in luxury while the rest toil away just to survive.

Incidentally just like the movie Metropolis, from 1927 (oh so close). METROPOLIS PART 3 CONFIRMED.


OMGWTF INTRAWEBZZZZ NUGGETSZZZ 5/8 8/5 GABRIELZZ IS VICTORIA
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on February 14, 2016, 06:26:41 AM
Overall I love the album.  There are some highs and lows for sure. One of my highs is Savior in the Square... just frikken LOVE the whole....


Nafaryus:
"Please don't stop on my account,
Show us what we heard so much about?
In peace, we gather here today."

Daryus:
Don't make him ask again
Do as my father says!

Gabriel:
Brother, worry not, today
I will share my music, and they will soon be on their way
They only know the noise machines
So I'll treat them all to sonic ecstasy

 :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal

To me, when you can completely visualize a scene in your mind, the artist has succeeded  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TH1RT3EN on February 14, 2016, 07:25:02 AM
Overall I love the album.  There are some highs and lows for sure. One of my highs is Savior in the Square... just frikken LOVE the whole....


Nafaryus:
"Please don't stop on my account,
Show us what we heard so much about?

Arhys:
In peace, we gather here today."

Daryus:
Don't make him ask again
Do as my father says!

Gabriel:
Brother, worry not, today
I will share my music, and they will soon be on their way
They only know the noise machines
So I'll treat them all to sonic ecstasy

 :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal

To me, when you can completely visualize a scene in your mind, the artist has succeeded  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on February 14, 2016, 08:01:22 AM
Came here to post that this album has now taken over the #1 spot on my list of favorite Dream Theater albums.  I think I'd even call this their Magnum Opus.


Brilliant writing, brilliant musicianship.  Not a single moment across two entire discs that I don't want to hear every time I listen.


5 star album

Never argue with Captain Kirk!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hypnotoad on February 14, 2016, 02:10:09 PM
Came here to post that this album has now taken over the #1 spot on my list of favorite Dream Theater albums.  I think I'd even call this their Magnum Opus.


Brilliant writing, brilliant musicianship.  Not a single moment across two entire discs that I don't want to hear every time I listen.


5 star album

Completely agree. I have been listening to TA solidly since it came out and I think I can now honestly say that this is without doubt my favourite Dream Theater album. Not only that but I now believe I will hold this album in the same regard as I hold Animals, Wish You Were Here, Selling England By The Pound and the like. I just finished listening to the title track, which I know some have said is a bit of an anti-climax, but it's just hit me really hard. What a stunning end to a classic album. So looking forward to Thursday at the Palladium.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thematt202 on February 14, 2016, 02:39:32 PM
Came here to post that this album has now taken over the #1 spot on my list of favorite Dream Theater albums.  I think I'd even call this their Magnum Opus.


Brilliant writing, brilliant musicianship.  Not a single moment across two entire discs that I don't want to hear every time I listen.


5 star album

Completely agree. I have been listening to TA solidly since it came out and I think I can now honestly say that this is without doubt my favourite Dream Theater album. Not only that but I now believe I will hold this album in the same regard as I hold Animals, Wish You Were Here, Selling England By The Pound and the like. I just finished listening to the title track, which I know some have said is a bit of an anti-climax, but it's just hit me really hard. What a stunning end to a classic album. So looking forward to Thursday at the Palladium.

Spot on.  It's a masterpiece.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gm5k on February 14, 2016, 06:22:21 PM
This album keeps getting better the more I listen to it.  "A Life Left Behind" through "A New Beginning" is such a ridiculously good run of music  :omg:  I'm certain now this album will keep it's place on my favorites as the best since SFAM and easily on par with all of their 90's stuff. 

I agree with what someone said earlier that the album really starts to get special at ALLB and never really lets up, or at least not for very long if it does.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on February 14, 2016, 07:12:43 PM
I had to listen to this album a whole lot of times for most of it to really click, but a majority of the album has finally clicked and I really enjoy most of it.

The only major thing I really just don't like is the story. I think it's silly and the lyrics are really distracting. However, as a fan of Ayreon, Rhapsody and Stratovarius, I can ignore the lyrics/story.

I wish the guitar solos were a bit more diverse, though each solo is quite lovely, they all kind of blur together to me.

JR really shines on this album.

MM does a passable job. Very few moments where I notice him really, but he doesn't detract at all. Actually, there's only one drum part that really bothers me, and that is the swing part right before the blast beat. I wish he had just gone full swing drums rather than doing a big snare thing instead. Feels like a missed opportunity.

All in all, immense album with some flaws that I can quickly look past.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on February 14, 2016, 10:12:54 PM
What a stunning end to a classic album. So looking forward to Thursday at the Palladium.

I forgot! The tour starts this week! is about to start!
Lucky you, enjoy the show.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 14, 2016, 10:40:50 PM
Hope someone gets a good quality bootleg of one of the shows.  I hate having to struggle to hear a band through echoes and talking.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 15, 2016, 05:16:17 AM
I have seen some comments about Act 2 not living up to Act 1.

I initially felt the same way, but then I thought it might be because I was listening to the whole thing, and frankly, after listening to Act 1, listening to Act 2 is a bit of a chore.

So this past week, I just listened to Act 2 over and over again.  And I can tell, it is fucking awesome.  Pretty sure I like it better than Act 1 now. 

Act 1 seems a little more melody-based to me, but Act 2 features some kick-ass songs.  2285 Entr'acte is a great intstrumental, and Moment of Betrayal is great, of course.  The Path That Divides is a killer, killer song; it seems the most "regular DT" song to me, and could have been on any other DT album, and I think it will come off insane in a live situation.  The Walking Shadow/My Last Farewell are two fantastic songs back-to-back, each incidentally featuring awesome JR synth solos.  And then from Hymn of a Thousand Voices all the way through to Astonishing is just glorious.

I also like, after listening to Astonishing, letting it cycle through to listen to 2285 Entr'acte again.  Just fantastic.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 15, 2016, 05:21:05 AM
Astonishing - the song - has trouble sticking in my memory. I listened to all of Act II one day and paid close attention to Astonishing.

It acts as kind of an overture to close the album. Except it has lyrics. I don't know how operas or musicals work having no interest in either of them -

- but do you have a piece at the end to "sum up" all the themes ?

That's kind of what it does.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 15, 2016, 05:38:16 AM
I've basically written off Act II at this point. Still digging most of Act I though. So strange to have such a divide for the most part.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on February 15, 2016, 05:39:35 AM
Came here to post that this album has now taken over the #1 spot on my list of favorite Dream Theater albums.  I think I'd even call this their Magnum Opus.


Brilliant writing, brilliant musicianship.  Not a single moment across two entire discs that I don't want to hear every time I listen.


5 star album


I know from your posting history you would not say something like that lightly. I still need a few more months to make the same
declaration but I am leaning towards feeling like it might be in the top 3 and I never thought I would feel that way about a new
DT album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 15, 2016, 05:45:20 AM
Meh I enjoy both equally.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 15, 2016, 07:07:02 AM
Astonishing - the song - has trouble sticking in my memory. I listened to all of Act II one day and paid close attention to Astonishing.

It acts as kind of an overture to close the album. Except it has lyrics. I don't know how operas or musicals work having no interest in either of them -

- but do you have a piece at the end to "sum up" all the themes ?

That's kind of what it does.

If you imagine this as a musical, this is the curtain call song after the rousing ending of Our New World. Basically, this is where the main actors go back to the stage one by one to receive their applause, and then they end with a standing ovation as they sing in chorus.

The Road to Revolution serves an almost similar function. It ends Act 1, having the characters go out one by one to be acknowledged by the audience. The difference is that because it ends Act 1, their lyrics is basically a teaser of what they would do in Act 2.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peter Mc on February 15, 2016, 07:08:28 AM
Astonishing - the song - has trouble sticking in my memory. I listened to all of Act II one day and paid close attention to Astonishing.

It acts as kind of an overture to close the album. Except it has lyrics. I don't know how operas or musicals work having no interest in either of them -

- but do you have a piece at the end to "sum up" all the themes ?

That's kind of what it does.

I don't think it's necessarily to sum up all the themes but, if you imagine seeing this on the stage as a musical production with a cast of singers, it brings them all back out for a couple of lines and then they all sing in unison at the end for the finale before taking a bow.  I really think it's an awesome song to end the album, the whole of Act 2 is pretty much perfection in my opinion.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peter Mc on February 15, 2016, 07:09:17 AM
Beat me to it!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 15, 2016, 07:14:08 AM
:lol

Anyway, if I would do a studio album edit and not structure this as a stage production, I would leave out Road, the Entracte and The Astonishing. Those are the pieces that are purely a stage production choice.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 15, 2016, 07:18:43 AM
:lol

Anyway, if I would do a studio album edit and not structure this as a stage production, I would leave out Road, the Entracte and The Astonishing. Those are the pieces that are purely a stage production choice.

Why Entr'acte 2285? I think the decision to have an overture for both discs can work outside of a stage production.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 15, 2016, 07:22:30 AM
:lol

Anyway, if I would do a studio album edit and not structure this as a stage production, I would leave out Road, the Entracte and The Astonishing. Those are the pieces that are purely a stage production choice.

Why Entr'acte 2285? I think the decision to have an overture for both discs can work outside of a stage production.

I was thinking if this is just one long album, not two discs, which is basically just a physical limitation. Basically three acts marked by NOMACS tracks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 15, 2016, 12:13:39 PM
Overall I love the album.  There are some highs and lows for sure. One of my highs is Savior in the Square... just frikken LOVE the whole....
 

Gabriel:
Brother, worry not, today
I will share my music, and they will soon be on their way
They only know the noise machines
So I'll treat them all to sonic ecstasy


This is one of my favorite moments of the entire album.

Came here to post that this album has now taken over the #1 spot on my list of favorite Dream Theater albums.  I think I'd even call this their Magnum Opus.
Brilliant writing, brilliant musicianship.  Not a single moment across two entire discs that I don't want to hear every time I listen.
5 star album

That's heavy, Kirk! It's a great album!! :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 15, 2016, 12:27:54 PM
Astonishing - the song - has trouble sticking in my memory. I listened to all of Act II one day and paid close attention to Astonishing.

It acts as kind of an overture to close the album. Except it has lyrics. I don't know how operas or musicals work having no interest in either of them -

- but do you have a piece at the end to "sum up" all the themes ?

That's kind of what it does.

An overture is an introduction, so Astonishing is not an overture.

It's basically a reprise of all important themes throughout the whole thing and, in my mind (in the particular case of TA), it's the part where all the cast (including Ahrys-Wan-Kenobi) get together to sing the ending. "PEOPLE CAAAN YOU HEAR US!".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 15, 2016, 12:37:21 PM
Astonishing also ties up a couple of loose ends in the story. Arhys gives his blessing to Gabriel and Faythe raising his son Xander, Gabriel understands why he was The Chosen One, Nafaryus reflects on his humbling and Daryus is forgiven.

Yes, it does reprise themes, but not just for the sake of it. It fits. As does every single element of this album. Everything that is there is where it's supposed to be, and I couldn't imagine it not being there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RaasMah on February 15, 2016, 12:41:54 PM
Im missing Darius at the ending, should have snipped him in somehow
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 15, 2016, 12:47:30 PM
Yes, it does reprise themes, but not just for the sake of it. It fits. As does every single element of this album. Everything that is there is where it's supposed to be, and I couldn't imagine it not being there.

Spot on!

Im missing Darius at the ending, should have snipped him in somehow

He doesn't get a point of view but he's still there, Arabelle addresses him. Also, he's the villain so no speaking lines for him!  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tick on February 15, 2016, 01:39:35 PM
Anyone else waiting patiently for Nicky Spanjaards to cover a song off The Astonishing?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 15, 2016, 02:01:59 PM
Anyone else waiting patiently for Nicky Spanjaards to cover a song off The Astonishing?

 :hefdaddy Dystopian Overture
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on February 15, 2016, 02:06:25 PM
I was listening to The Path That Divides and during the sword fight, does anyone else hear a whip after Arhys screams?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on February 15, 2016, 02:14:07 PM
Yes, I've been trying to rationalize what that sound is. A whip doesn't make sense, so I imagine Daryus punching Arhys in the face.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tick on February 15, 2016, 02:24:35 PM
Anyone else waiting patiently for Nicky Spanjaards to cover a song off The Astonishing?

 :hefdaddy Dystopian Overture
He would knock that one out of the park!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on February 15, 2016, 02:26:27 PM
I'd kinda like to hear him cover Descent of the NOMACs

Yes, I've been trying to rationalize what that sound is. A whip doesn't make sense, so I imagine Daryus punching Arhys in the face.
I'm gonna go with punch, because that also kinda makes sense in a comic book onomatopoeia sort of way.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 15, 2016, 02:34:29 PM
When I first heard of the idea of this album - I was a bit worried the whole album would have narration a la Ziltoid The Omniscient :lol

Thankfully it doesn't !

Imagine a movie trailer voice.. " Far In The Distant Future.......Beyond the pages......of OUR time. "
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 15, 2016, 02:51:46 PM
Anyone else waiting patiently for Nicky Spanjaards to cover a song off The Astonishing?

*Sits and waits patiently and quietly*
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 15, 2016, 07:38:18 PM
Anyone else waiting patiently for Nicky Spanjaards to cover a song off The Astonishing?

Who?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on February 16, 2016, 08:00:48 AM
My 5-year-old son started singing along to "bow down to Nafaryus" while it was playing in the car.

My life is complete.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thoughtspart3 on February 16, 2016, 09:01:20 AM
I am still scratching my head about early comments along the lines of "there are no strong melodies."  Everyday I have a different melody stuck in my head.  My kids keep asking me, "why do you sing the same thing over and over"   :D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theanalogkid7 on February 16, 2016, 09:02:03 AM
So, we've had this album for over 3 weeks now.  Typically after about 2 weeks of listening, I start to back off a bit.  This album, though, is practically on loop.  Every now and then I might jump to something else for a song or two, but then I end up back at the Astonishing.  I really don't want to get burned out so I'm forcing myself to take breaks more and more, but man, so far this album has some serious staying-power.

Wow.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Podaar on February 16, 2016, 09:08:01 AM
Well, I've listened to TA enough to be familiar with all the music and have really enjoyed the process. I definitely got a terrific value for my entertainment dollars. In the context of the album and the story there are some fantastic musical moments that will stay with me for a very long time. I love that the band did something new and different. I think they really achieved a fantastic and unique experience, so for that

 :tup

But, now I have almost no desire to listen to it again. It should be interesting to see if at some point I begin to crave hearing it...but I doubt it. This is based on my experience with albums like The Whirlwind that had the same effect on me. Whenever one of the individual Whirlwind tracks come on during shuffle I skip them. I just don't care to listen to them outside of the album experience and sitting down for the entire album experience isn't compelling either.  I suspect TA will be the same way.

We'll see.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 16, 2016, 09:09:36 AM
So, we've had this album for over 3 weeks now.

I think you mean 2 weeks, unless you're a time traveler, or I suck with dates. I'd say both are equally likely.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theanalogkid7 on February 16, 2016, 09:11:57 AM
So, we've had this album for over 3 weeks now.

I think you mean 2 weeks, unless you're a time traveler, or I suck with dates. I'd say both are equally likely.

Is this a....what day is this?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: genome on February 16, 2016, 09:15:42 AM
The album is so good, it ripped a hole in space-time and released itself a week earlier than it when it actually came out.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: olddtfan51@gmail.com on February 16, 2016, 09:30:07 AM
I can finally say it without a doubt this is a master work. :metal :tup :hefdaddy
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 16, 2016, 10:21:30 AM
My 5-year-old son started singing along to "bow down to Nafaryus" while it was playing in the car.

My life is complete.
That is absolutely amazing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thematt202 on February 16, 2016, 10:29:41 AM
My 15 month old daughter headbangs to the start of Dystopian Overture with a massive grin on her face.   Every time!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Chino on February 16, 2016, 10:37:02 AM
My 15 month old daughter headbangs to the start of Dystopian Overture with a massive grin on her face.   Every time!

Can you please get this on video?!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DreamerTV on February 16, 2016, 10:38:53 AM
At this point, i can say that this hold a special place in my mind and ears now.
This is a very different album from what they've done before, and from how this guys used to play and sound in the '90s , still it reminds me of a lot of really cool moments they could evoke with their music on those years.

To me, this is on par with their bests.

Once again, thanks Dt.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tick on February 16, 2016, 10:39:45 AM
Anyone else waiting patiently for Nicky Spanjaards to cover a song off The Astonishing?

Who?
(https://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4289723/you-serious-clark-o.gif)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 16, 2016, 10:47:50 AM
Anyone else waiting patiently for Nicky Spanjaards to cover a song off The Astonishing?

Who?
Starlord.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: oceanic156 on February 16, 2016, 11:19:08 AM
I feel like I've had enough listens to The Astonishing now to be able to judge it and consider it in the context of DT's discography.

As a piece of music, I really think this is the most impressive thing they've ever composed. Very consistent, very beautiful, deceptively complex.

As for the album's storytelling... I think it's mediocre. The lyrics and pacing are a little clumsy and occasionally amateurish. For me, that's really not a big deal- I honestly find it refreshing that it's not a self-serious 'dark' or 'gritty' story. I wonder if it could have been improved had they brought in someone else to storyboard JP's idea, although that might have had other negative consequences.

Taken as a whole, I'd now put this in my top 3 DT albums, and as a concept album I enjoy this more than SFAM. Awake and I&W are still the top 2 for now.

I find something to enjoy in every song on the record, but there are a few moments that jar with me:

- The crying at the beginning of Losing Faythe. I like the song, but that stock sample (or whatever it is) sucks.
- The 'children laughing' sample during Act of Faythe. Something about it is really out-of-place and off-putting.
- The BCYHM? melody. It's not bad, it just strikes me as bland and kind of hamfisted.
- The placement of 'Begin Again'. It's a decent song, but has more mundane, unnecessary lyrics about 'new beginnings' and throws the record's pacing in the 2nd act.
- Fading out one of JP's finest ever solos in A New Beginning. Why?
- The closing track (Astonishing) is just.... OK. Feels a little too sluggish, kind of a disappointing closer for me.

But beyond that.... this is really, REALLY good music. With a bit of editing and some better lyrics this would be one of my all-time favorites. As it is, it's still something I thoroughly enjoy listening to.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thematt202 on February 16, 2016, 11:51:32 AM
My 15 month old daughter headbangs to the start of Dystopian Overture with a massive grin on her face.   Every time!

Can you please get this on video?!

I'll see what I can do!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 16, 2016, 12:12:45 PM
This tour might do JLB's voice in for good.  At least in the past there have been long instrumental breaks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: kaos2900 on February 16, 2016, 12:14:02 PM
After listening to this a crap ton over the past 2 weeks I'm going to not touch it the next week or 2 and give it a few more spins.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 16, 2016, 01:39:08 PM
Anyone else waiting patiently for Nicky Spanjaards to cover a song off The Astonishing?

Who?
Starlord.
Starlord, man. Legendary outlaw? Guys? (https://youtu.be/IAC7Ztu1Hao?t=41s)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peter Mc on February 16, 2016, 02:02:19 PM
This tour might do JLB's voice in for good.  At least in the past there have been long instrumental breaks.

I'm not so sure, it's going to be just over a 2 hour show which is fairly standard for a lot of established bands and he has an intermission in the middle to recover which is unusual. There's also still quite a lot of non-singing parts apart from the two overtures and NOMAC tracks. Lots of orchestration and piano moments with no singing. Even something like Heavens Cove has a fairly lengthy instrumental intro. We'll soon see though, I'll be there on Thursday night.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TH1RT3EN on February 16, 2016, 02:24:34 PM
Anyone else waiting patiently for Nicky Spanjaards to cover a song off The Astonishing?

Who?
Starlord.

What an awesome reply :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 16, 2016, 02:34:56 PM
This tour might do JLB's voice in for good.  At least in the past there have been long instrumental breaks.

I'm not so sure, it's going to be just over a 2 hour show which is fairly standard for a lot of established bands and he has an intermission in the middle to recover which is unusual. There's also still quite a lot of non-singing parts apart from the two overtures and NOMAC tracks. Lots of orchestration and piano moments with no singing. Even something like Heavens Cove has a fairly lengthy instrumental intro. We'll soon see though, I'll be there on Thursday night.

Lots of the songs have instrumental intros well over a minute long (eg. ASITS, BCYMH, ALLB). That's plenty of time for JLB to run backstage and have a quick swig of whatever he swigs on during concerts.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on February 16, 2016, 03:47:56 PM
This tour might do JLB's voice in for good.  At least in the past there have been long instrumental breaks.

I'm not so sure, it's going to be just over a 2 hour show which is fairly standard for a lot of established bands and he has an intermission in the middle to recover which is unusual. There's also still quite a lot of non-singing parts apart from the two overtures and NOMAC tracks. Lots of orchestration and piano moments with no singing. Even something like Heavens Cove has a fairly lengthy instrumental intro. We'll soon see though, I'll be there on Thursday night.
I am waiting for the first live show fan reviews on Thursday.  Have a great time!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 16, 2016, 03:50:44 PM
This tour might do JLB's voice in for good.  At least in the past there have been long instrumental breaks.

I'm not so sure, it's going to be just over a 2 hour show which is fairly standard for a lot of established bands and he has an intermission in the middle to recover which is unusual. There's also still quite a lot of non-singing parts apart from the two overtures and NOMAC tracks. Lots of orchestration and piano moments with no singing. Even something like Heavens Cove has a fairly lengthy instrumental intro. We'll soon see though, I'll be there on Thursday night.

Lots of the songs have instrumental intros well over a minute long (eg. ASITS, BCYMH, ALLB). That's plenty of time for JLB to run backstage and have a quick swig of whatever he swigs on during concerts.


Hot water & honey I believe.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 16, 2016, 03:52:28 PM
My 5-year-old son started singing along to "bow down to Nafaryus" while it was playing in the car.

My life is complete.

I've been there. My five-year-old daughter has asked for Wither and Bridges in the Sky. Most recently she was asking for Untouchable by Anathema.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 16, 2016, 05:47:27 PM
Anyone else waiting patiently for Nicky Spanjaards to cover a song off The Astonishing?

Who?
(https://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4289723/you-serious-clark-o.gif)

Just googled him.  I will ask again: who??
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 16, 2016, 05:51:46 PM
I think he was a former forum member who did vocal covers.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on February 16, 2016, 05:55:01 PM
Anyone else waiting patiently for Nicky Spanjaards to cover a song off The Astonishing?

Who?
(https://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4289723/you-serious-clark-o.gif)

Just googled him.  I will ask again: who??

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=16692.0
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theanalogkid7 on February 16, 2016, 09:12:30 PM
I had forgotten about Nicky Spanjaards.... thank you Tick.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on February 16, 2016, 10:12:44 PM
So I'll treat them all to sonic ecstasy... BUM. BUM BUM. budududududuududud BUM. BUM BUM BUM.

absolutely love that moment
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Scorpion on February 17, 2016, 12:56:59 AM
So I think my cut down version of this album sits comfortably in the top half of their discography for me (not quite sure where), and that's not a bad place to be.

That said, I still think that the full album is too ponderous and the story is too cheesy and predictable to make me listen to songs that I don't really dig for the sake of keeping the story intact.

My cut version is sitting a comfortable 4/5 for me, while the whole thing is a low 3/5 I'd say.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: genome on February 17, 2016, 04:21:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nyPYeUe.jpg)

 :o
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 17, 2016, 05:34:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nyPYeUe.jpg)

 :o

No. There isn't actually much resemblance there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on February 17, 2016, 05:37:30 AM
So I'll treat them all to sonic ecstasy... BUM. BUM BUM. budududududuududud BUM. BUM BUM BUM.

absolutely love that moment

I was thinking about this. I assume WYTHC is the song he sings publicly in front of Nafaryus? If so, it seems underwhelming to me. I think a different song should have been used to blow Nafaryus away. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the scene.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: genome on February 17, 2016, 05:43:04 AM
I like the bit in TPTD, before the big riff.

IT'S
NOT
TOO LATE

I
WON'T
BETRAY
HIIIIM

And the sub bass kicks in on the "him". It shakes my house. :laugh:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 17, 2016, 05:44:57 AM
So I'll treat them all to sonic ecstasy... BUM. BUM BUM. budududududuududud BUM. BUM BUM BUM.

absolutely love that moment

I was thinking about this. I assume WYTHC is the song he sings publicly in front of Nafaryus? If so, it seems underwhelming to me. I think a different song should have been used to blow Nafaryus away. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the scene.

I think the intention wasn't to 'blow him away' as such. WYTHC works as something to bring out the emotion in Nafaryus ('notably moved by Gabriel’s song') rather than to impress him.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 17, 2016, 06:56:21 AM
So I'll treat them all to sonic ecstasy... BUM. BUM BUM. budududududuududud BUM. BUM BUM BUM.

absolutely love that moment

I was thinking about this. I assume WYTHC is the song he sings publicly in front of Nafaryus? If so, it seems underwhelming to me. I think a different song should have been used to blow Nafaryus away. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the scene.

I think the intention wasn't to 'blow him away' as such. WYTHC works as something to bring out the emotion in Nafaryus ('notably moved by Gabriel’s song') rather than to impress him.
Yeah exactly. And it's a really nice song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikemangioy on February 17, 2016, 08:34:08 AM
Besides, the people in the story haven't heard anything, except NOMAC stuff.
(Yeah Nafaryus had the iPod when he was a child, but maybe hasn't listened to the stuff that's in it since he was crowned, so the song might even bring back some memories to him from his childhood, moving him even more.)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Crow on February 17, 2016, 09:19:41 AM
i've listened to this like... 7 times in total? and i don't think i'm going to be interested enough to come back much more than that. it's a decent album but an exhausting listen that i don't think is quite worth the time it takes to sit through, even if you break it in half
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 17, 2016, 09:21:54 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nyPYeUe.jpg)

 :o
Mike Portnoy / Nafaryus was more striking.

More dramatic.

More real.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on February 17, 2016, 09:28:07 AM
Besides, the people in the story haven't heard anything, except NOMAC stuff.
(Yeah Nafaryus had the iPod when he was a child, but maybe hasn't listened to the stuff that's in it since he was crowned, so the song might even bring back some memories to him from his childhood, moving him even more.)

I had a theory that the entire DT Discography was on that ipod, including The Astonishing, so Nafaryus was definitely reminded of this exact song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 17, 2016, 11:59:36 AM
Well, but there's no hint whatsoever that it could be the case, and it doesn't make much sense to have an album from the past that talks about what would happen to those characters.

I second mikemangioy's point of view, the point is not When Your Time Has Come vs. today's music, the point is that people never heard any kind of music AT ALL, so the contrast and the emotion was overwhelming.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 17, 2016, 12:04:13 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/nyPYeUe.jpg)

 :o






(https://i.imgur.com/Fs4sB0M.jpg)

:o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 17, 2016, 01:04:38 PM
I second mikemangioy's point of view, the point is not When Your Time Has Come vs. today's music, the point is that people never heard any kind of music AT ALL, so the contrast and the emotion was overwhelming.

While I agree that that notion is portrayed in some parts of the story, I feel the lyrics of TGOM paint a different picture. "People just don't have the time for music any more.
And no one seems to care" is not something you say when people have never heard music. Similarly, it's hard to believe that the while population is unaware of the existence of music when the whole royal household has been growing up with music players and Gabriel randomly finds a functioning (!) guitar.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 17, 2016, 01:14:29 PM
While I agree that that notion is portrayed in some parts of the story, I feel the lyrics of TGOM paint a different picture. "People just don't have the time for music any more.
And no one seems to care" is not something you say when people have never heard music. Similarly, it's hard to believe that the while population is unaware of the existence of music when the whole royal household has been growing up with music players and Gabriel randomly finds a functioning (!) guitar.

I think that implies that people weren't taking notice of the music and made do with the NOMAC sounds, so they were entranced when it was just Gabriel, with a guitar, singing with no distractions and realised what they were missing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 17, 2016, 02:08:12 PM
I second mikemangioy's point of view, the point is not When Your Time Has Come vs. today's music, the point is that people never heard any kind of music AT ALL, so the contrast and the emotion was overwhelming.

While I agree that that notion is portrayed in some parts of the story, I feel the lyrics of TGOM paint a different picture. "People just don't have the time for music any more.
And no one seems to care" is not something you say when people have never heard music. Similarly, it's hard to believe that the while population is unaware of the existence of music when the whole royal household has been growing up with music players and Gabriel randomly finds a functioning (!) guitar.
You're looking way too much into that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on February 17, 2016, 02:15:10 PM
If the internet has taught me anything, it's that virtually all fantasy/science fiction stories have, at least, something resembling a plot hole, as hilariously pointed out by the "How It Should Have Ended" video series on YouTube. That kind of thing doesn't bother me at all anymore. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CoT67 on February 17, 2016, 03:20:02 PM
So I'll treat them all to sonic ecstasy... BUM. BUM BUM. budududududuududud BUM. BUM BUM BUM.

absolutely love that moment

I was thinking about this. I assume WYTHC is the song he sings publicly in front of Nafaryus? If so, it seems underwhelming to me. I think a different song should have been used to blow Nafaryus away. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the scene.

Well he could have just played Dance of Eternity if he wanted to impress him... that is if he could pull it off with a beaten up acoustic and his voice  to imitate the beatbox cover guy  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: The Astonished on February 17, 2016, 03:48:59 PM
After 6 listens, I decided to make the 7th listen the complete journey. I already loved the hell out of this album, but after 130 minutes of subsequent, pure, musical bliss... i'm safe to say that The Astonishing has become my favourite album of Dream Theater. I'll say it to you all, TA is meant to be listened in its whole. You will get the complete experience and be blown away by a cyclone of melodies, riffs, vocals, drums, synths, violins, strings and more. Dream Theater has completely outdone themselves with this and I couldn't be any more happier. There is SO much great stuff going on, astonishing might indeed be my only definition. And the real MVP...of course it's none other than JLB. Easily his best performance since SFAM. Where the hell did he hide this voice all the time?!! I cannot choose the best vocal part, it's impossible. First I loved the chorus on Brother... , then Losing Faythe's "farewell" reprise by Nafaryus become by favourite vocal part, then the finale of Hymn of a Thousand Voices, then his high on ravenskill, and so forth. While there's a lot of melodic slow stuff, there's also a well-balanced heavier riffy portions on this album. So to make this short, everyone that already loves the crap out of this album but haven't listened it in one go, do it. It's probably demanding for a lot of people but I feel that this album has been created to listen it in its whole. Can't wait to see the guys performing The Astonishing in front of my eyes, upcoming Monday.

Peace out, DTF'ers!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on February 17, 2016, 03:54:33 PM
So I'll treat them all to sonic ecstasy... BUM. BUM BUM. budududududuududud BUM. BUM BUM BUM.

absolutely love that moment

I was thinking about this. I assume WYTHC is the song he sings publicly in front of Nafaryus? If so, it seems underwhelming to me. I think a different song should have been used to blow Nafaryus away. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the scene.

Well he could have just played Dance of Eternity if he wanted to impress him... that is if he could pull it off with a beaten up acoustic and his voice  to imitate the beatbox cover guy  :lol

My thoughts on the discussion here (and also about this plot hole issue) is that one shouldn't try to make sense out of certain things in the story, because there's no real, convincing explanation.

For instance, I can't understand how Gabriel (who never in his life listened to other music except from NOMACs') could come up just by himself with all these chords, chord progressions and melodies so similar to those found in Western pop music (from hundreds of years before he was born). I like to think that "When Your Time Has Come" is not the actual song he plays, but a musical dramatization of the scene*. Obviously, the lyrics are what he sings - but as far as the music, I like to think the "real" song is actually much different.

Or, maybe he had guitar lessons from someone who taught him all those chords and progressions from centuries ago, so the spirit (of pop music) carries on.

* I bet that's the whole point of an opera/musical, but I'm not familiar with the genre so maybe someone can explain?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 17, 2016, 04:33:52 PM
My thoughts on the discussion here (and also about this plot hole issue) is that one shouldn't try to make sense out of certain things in the story, because there's no real, convincing explanation.

For instance, I can't understand how Gabriel (who never in his life listened to other music except from NOMACs') could come up just by himself with all these chords, chord progressions and melodies so similar to those found in Western pop music (from hundreds of years before he was born). I like to think that "When Your Time Has Come" is not the actual song he plays, but a musical dramatization of the scene*. Obviously, the lyrics are what he sings - but as far as the music, I like to think the "real" song is actually much different.

Or, maybe he had guitar lessons from someone who taught him all those chords and progressions from centuries ago, so the spirit (of pop music) carries on.

* I bet that's the whole point of an opera/musical, but I'm not familiar with the genre so maybe someone can explain?

I think they took creative liberties with the music on WYTHC, as in the 'real' version would've likely been just voice and guitar, with maybe the guitar being slightly out of tune with a duller tone than on the album. Also, things like the synth melody and drum pattern in the beginning add a lot and sound great.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 17, 2016, 04:38:09 PM
So you're saying that the music we hear is not the greatest song in the world, just a tribute?

TENACIOUS D PT 2 CONFIRMED
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 17, 2016, 04:59:47 PM
So you're saying that the music we hear is not the greatest song in the world, just a tribute?

TENACIOUS D PT 2 CONFIRMED

YES

YES I AM


 :lol
But really, imagine being Nafaryus travelling to Ravenskill, saying "show me what you've got", Gabriel goes "ok", gathers FOUR OTHERS BORN WITH THE GIFT OF MUSIC (supposed to be a special thing in this album), gets a colossus of a drumkit, a bass guitar, a pristine keyboard, a top-end microphone and a shiny electric guitar (along with a ton of cables) and rocks WYTHC at 110 db.   :metal The first thought of Naf won't be "oh man, I forgot this kind of thing existed", it'll be "WHERE THE HELL DID YOU GET ALL THAT?".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on February 17, 2016, 05:54:04 PM
Since Gabriel has indeed the gift of music and can even defy death, I imagine he can easily play modern western music with drums and everything just with his guitar.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 17, 2016, 06:00:58 PM
Mike Mangini update, specifically addressed to those who would attend the live show:

"Our Dress rehearsal tonight is over. I don't want to post any kit pics etc or anything about this spectacle until after the first show. I also am interested in the reactions, more the feelings, of those there at the show and those there over time to really get a database of opinions to average out. I don't value YouTube reflections and thus comments because that medium has no bone-rattling feel while analog reality is just another animal. My phone clips don't come close to how it is in person. Odd thing how unrelated a cell phone view is to the real thing. Not even comparable.This show is another animal too because of the space in the music; the raw instrument sounds off of the stage; the impact of the really quiet parts vs. the huge entrances through a PA system that will shake the wooden chairs. I didn't realize while recording it how the opposing volumes, melodies and energy that make it what it is. DT does Space! I've already posted how hard it is to make the space not rush; to not succumb to the excuse of "feel" and have the intended timing and real intended feel suffer. I'll say that playing at home with a CD has nothing to do with what I felt today, but It is about the attendees starting tomorrow, not me. Have fun if you're joining us."

 :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 17, 2016, 07:38:28 PM
Dress rehearsal!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on February 17, 2016, 07:46:22 PM
I think they took creative liberties with the music on WYTHC, as in the 'real' version would've likely been just voice and guitar, with maybe the guitar being slightly out of tune with a duller tone than on the album. Also, things like the synth melody and drum pattern in the beginning add a lot and sound great.

I know, and I agree about the synth/drum at the beginning - it's one of my favourite songs from the album.
What I really meant, anyway, is that the chords/melodies that Gabriel plays at Ravenskill might not be the same as in the album. But, since his performance is supposed to be uplifting (and even capable of making Faythe fall in love with him), it makes sense for the band to play that sort of song in the album - it may produce the same vibe/feelings in the listeners (I know it does to me).

So you're saying that the music we hear is not the greatest song in the world, just a tribute?

TENACIOUS D PT 2 CONFIRMED
:P

I love The Pick Of Destiny. Another awesome concept album (and film :)).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 17, 2016, 08:15:47 PM
Dress rehearsal!

Would the Dream Theater members dress their part? How many costume changes would James make? :p
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 18, 2016, 01:38:06 AM
Dress rehearsal!

Would the Dream Theater members dress their part? How many costume changes would James make? :p

I had posted a comment on dress change a while ago quoting a JLB tweet, but nobody remarked. Well, I'm eagerly waiting to see JLB dressed as Faythe, pink wig and all. :metal :rollin :rollin :rollin

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: YtseJamittaja on February 18, 2016, 01:52:05 AM
Dress rehearsal!

Would the Dream Theater members dress their part? How many costume changes would James make? :p

I had posted a comment on dress change a while ago quoting a JLB tweet, but nobody remarked. Well, I'm eagerly waiting to see JLB dressed as Faythe, pink wig and all. :metal :rollin :rollin :rollin

B.Lee

Yeah, Faythe will be great  :rollin

How the hell can James sing the songs like New Beginning where characters are talking to each other?? :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on February 18, 2016, 03:13:44 AM
When characters are talking to each other only one will be live... the other will be part of the backing track
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on February 18, 2016, 03:26:15 AM
What is it, 15 hours away now?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Rickharris1011 on February 18, 2016, 04:50:32 AM
Dress rehearsal!

Would the Dream Theater members dress their part? How many costume changes would James make? :p

Dream Theater channels their inner Kiss Fan:

JP dresses as Arhys (you know he wrote the story just so he could lead the Ravenskill Militia)
MM as Daryus
JR as Nefaryus
JM as Xander (OK - bad short joke)
JL as Gabriel/Faythe (dresses like Gabriel, but with a pink wig)

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: genome on February 18, 2016, 04:59:00 AM
I want to see JMX in a pink wig.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 18, 2016, 09:20:20 AM
JM can only play one character and that character is Evangeline.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on February 18, 2016, 10:33:03 AM
Mike Mangini update, specifically addressed to those who would attend the live show:

"Our Dress rehearsal tonight is over. I don't want to post any kit pics etc or anything about this spectacle until after the first show. I also am interested in the reactions, more the feelings, of those there at the show and those there over time to really get a database of opinions to average out. I don't value YouTube reflections and thus comments because that medium has no bone-rattling feel while analog reality is just another animal. My phone clips don't come close to how it is in person. Odd thing how unrelated a cell phone view is to the real thing. Not even comparable.This show is another animal too because of the space in the music; the raw instrument sounds off of the stage; the impact of the really quiet parts vs. the huge entrances through a PA system that will shake the wooden chairs. I didn't realize while recording it how the opposing volumes, melodies and energy that make it what it is. DT does Space! I've already posted how hard it is to make the space not rush; to not succumb to the excuse of "feel" and have the intended timing and real intended feel suffer. I'll say that playing at home with a CD has nothing to do with what I felt today, but It is about the attendees starting tomorrow, not me. Have fun if you're joining us."

 :metal

I agree that phone videos are normally awful.   Folks have talked about them dressing in costume.  As a joke, it would be funny if they dressed in costume for the meet and greet for the first show.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on February 18, 2016, 10:38:16 AM
MM sure makes it sound epic! Really curious to see the stage and props...where the Nomacs might be. WIll MM have Nomac artwork
on his bass drums?

Really pumped to start hearing reviews and seeing vids.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 18, 2016, 10:41:18 AM
Dress rehearsal!

SPOILER ALERT:  DT's stage outfits.




























































































(https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/hefdaddy42/DTF/ghostdt_zpsavewsisw.jpg)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on February 18, 2016, 11:45:13 AM
    :lol   So, based on that photo, this will be a true metal show
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 18, 2016, 11:55:04 AM
 :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 18, 2016, 11:57:49 AM
Myung will abandon his all black look for the first time ever?  :yarr
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 18, 2016, 11:58:28 AM
From what I have heard of Ghost (which, admittedly, is not much), I'm not sure I would classify them as "metal."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 18, 2016, 11:59:11 AM
From what I have heard of Ghost (which, admittedly, is not much), I'm not sure I would classify them as "metal."
I'm not a fan.

But they LOOK awesome.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Edergilmour on February 18, 2016, 12:18:57 PM
Is this legit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy5hkBJlpKw
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 18, 2016, 12:29:48 PM
Probably not. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chego_voice on February 18, 2016, 12:39:35 PM
please let us watch!!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: zmazar on February 18, 2016, 01:00:18 PM
After 6 listens, I decided to make the 7th listen the complete journey. I already loved the hell out of this album, but after 130 minutes of subsequent, pure, musical bliss... i'm safe to say that The Astonishing has become my favourite album of Dream Theater. I'll say it to you all, TA is meant to be listened in its whole. You will get the complete experience and be blown away by a cyclone of melodies, riffs, vocals, drums, synths, violins, strings and more. Dream Theater has completely outdone themselves with this and I couldn't be any more happier. There is SO much great stuff going on, astonishing might indeed be my only definition. And the real MVP...of course it's none other than JLB. Easily his best performance since SFAM. Where the hell did he hide this voice all the time?!! I cannot choose the best vocal part, it's impossible. First I loved the chorus on Brother... , then Losing Faythe's "farewell" reprise by Nafaryus become by favourite vocal part, then the finale of Hymn of a Thousand Voices, then his high on ravenskill, and so forth. While there's a lot of melodic slow stuff, there's also a well-balanced heavier riffy portions on this album. So to make this short, everyone that already loves the crap out of this album but haven't listened it in one go, do it. It's probably demanding for a lot of people but I feel that this album has been created to listen it in its whole. Can't wait to see the guys performing The Astonishing in front of my eyes, upcoming Monday.

Peace out, DTF'ers!

I love the key change to finish out The X Aspect.  I couldn't agree more that his performance on this album is one of his best.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on February 18, 2016, 01:05:53 PM
From what I have heard of Ghost (which, admittedly, is not much), I'm not sure I would classify them as "metal."

Scary Death Metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: paulstfu on February 18, 2016, 02:06:15 PM
From what I have heard of Ghost (which, admittedly, is not much), I'm not sure I would classify them as "metal."
I'm not a fan.

But they LOOK awesome.


And they actually SOUND AWESOME!

Anyway, do you think DT is going to be dressed as Ravenskill or TGNE??
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on February 18, 2016, 02:14:40 PM
It would be very cool if each show everyone dressed as a character. One day they're all Xanders, next day they're all Faythes, and so on.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on February 18, 2016, 02:18:11 PM
It would be very cool if each show everyone dressed as a character. One day they're all Xanders, next day they're all Faythes, and so on.

Can you just imagine JP with a Faythe look? Quick, someone has to do a photoshop of it!! :biggrin:

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on February 18, 2016, 02:39:31 PM
It would be very cool if each show everyone dressed as a character. One day they're all Xanders, next day they're all Faythes, and so on.

Can you just imagine JP with a Faythe look? Quick, someone has to do a photoshop of it!! :biggrin:

B.Lee

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=45043.0 (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=45043.0)

You just have to scroll down a bit...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on February 18, 2016, 02:47:57 PM
Where are the London reviews?

In the London thread of the concrts and setlists forum.... intermission now
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 18, 2016, 03:10:56 PM
So you're saying that the music we hear is not the greatest song in the world, just a tribute?

TENACIOUS D PT 2 CONFIRMED

Can't wait for Gabriel to write a song about cock pushups.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 18, 2016, 03:34:40 PM
So you're saying that the music we hear is not the greatest song in the world, just a tribute?

TENACIOUS D PT 2 CONFIRMED

Can't wait for Gabriel to write a song about cock pushups.
:lol I'd forgotten that one.

Personally I'm looking forward to his rendition of the one-note song. That'll be truly epic.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ErHaO on February 18, 2016, 03:41:30 PM
I actually wish DT went the Tenacious D Master Exploder route for Gabriel's deafening scream.

Then again, that scream as is now can actually be considered comedy.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on February 18, 2016, 08:54:14 PM
I actually wish DT went the Tenacious D Master Exploder route for Gabriel's deafening scream.

Then again, that scream as is now can actually be considered comedy.

Well, the line "So I'll treat them all to sonic ecstasy" by Gabriel sure sounds like something sung by Jack from 'Master Exploder', now that I think about it. :P

Although I would say that JP plays with more arms than Kyle in that song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 19, 2016, 03:04:26 AM
A tiny nitpick: It would have been cool to have some of the dialogue passages shift back and forth between the left and right stereo channels, à la The Great Debate. I'm thinking particularly the fast section between Daryus and Arhys in The Path That Divides. Because they use the same vocal effect on JLB for both characters, it's hard to tell that it's two different characters speaking.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on February 19, 2016, 04:58:50 AM
A tiny nitpick: It would have been cool to have some of the dialogue passages shift back and forth between the left and right stereo channels, à la The Great Debate. I'm thinking particularly the fast section between Daryus and Arhys in The Path That Divides. Because they use the same vocal effect on JLB for both characters, it's hard to tell that it's two different characters speaking.

Agreed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 19, 2016, 09:24:59 AM


oops.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 19, 2016, 12:01:07 PM
One weird thing I realized about The Astonishing... while being unlike anything they've done before, and having a completely different format (a rock opera), all the out-of-the-field things about this record are to be anticipated, so it kinda "robs" you of the "Wow, listen to what they've done here" factor.

I mean, since I'm immersed in the story, when I hear The Answer I hear Gabriel's point of view, I don't think "Wow, listen to this 2 minutes song, the shortest full song DT has ever done!"... and when I hear Lord Nafaryus or Three Days I follow our dear Emperor's moods and state of mind, I'm not surprised and amazed at "a song with jazz and swing".

So, in a sense of course I hear all the weird stuff going on... but on the other hand I kinda expect it because I already know these songs are part of a rock opera rather than "normal DT albums". Would love to feel this amazed and caught by surprise on following albums as well.

Am I making sense?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 19, 2016, 12:05:05 PM
No.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 19, 2016, 12:24:09 PM
To elaborate on Hef's response...

No way.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 19, 2016, 12:25:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/PFA795W.jpg)


For anyone that wants to read the credits.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 19, 2016, 12:29:42 PM
To further elaborate on Hef's response:  No.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on February 19, 2016, 12:29:54 PM
Jesus, whose idea was it to put white text over an image of clouds?  :facepalm:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 19, 2016, 12:34:04 PM
Well, my point was... when you hear Illumination Theory, for example, you listen the orchestral interlude, unless I'm forgetting something it is the first time - Six Degrees Overture aside - that there's only an orchestra in a DT song, so you can go "wow, they've put a completely orchestral interlude in this song". Hell, you can even be surprised at DT' first and never heard before attempt at "growl" vocals on A Nightmare To Remember.

With The Astonishing, it's not that I go "Listen to this song, it's so short! they've never done such a short song!" or "Listen to this song, it's so theatrical, James is acting, there's this weird atmosphere going on, this is unlilke anything they've ever done"... because I already know the album is anything unlike they've ever done. It's a rock opera that spans 2 CDs and has 34 songs. I expect all the weird stuff and song structures never used before, because *the entire album* is based on a different format.

So my point is that if you get a surprise in a normal DT song on a normal DT album, you can be truly amazed. When you get it on a 34 SONGS ROCK OPERA, you still can enjoy it but well, you already knew beforehand things would have been completely different.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 19, 2016, 12:43:56 PM
Jesus, whose idea was it to put white text over an image of clouds?  :facepalm:

My name isn't Jesus, but I'll respond anyway. I am guessing JP's.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 19, 2016, 12:58:39 PM
Well, my point was... when you hear Illumination Theory, for example, you listen the orchestral interlude, unless I'm forgetting something it is the first time - Six Degrees Overture aside - that there's only an orchestra in a DT song, so you can go "wow, they've put a completely orchestral interlude in this song". Hell, you can even be surprised at DT' first and never heard before attempt at "growl" vocals on A Nightmare To Remember.

With The Astonishing, it's not that I go "Listen to this song, it's so short! they've never done such a short song!" or "Listen to this song, it's so theatrical, James is acting, there's this weird atmosphere going on, this is unlilke anything they've ever done"... because I already know the album is anything unlike they've ever done. It's a rock opera that spans 2 CDs and has 34 songs. I expect all the weird stuff and song structures never used before, because *the entire album* is based on a different format.

So my point is that if you get a surprise in a normal DT song on a normal DT album, you can be truly amazed. When you get it on a 34 SONGS ROCK OPERA, you still can enjoy it but well, you already knew beforehand things would have been completely different.
So?

I still don't get your point.  I knew it was going to be different, but I still know the band creating it, so I was still able to marvel at things I would have marveled at anyway.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: escruting on February 19, 2016, 01:00:39 PM
[wrong thread]
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 19, 2016, 01:17:54 PM
So?

I still don't get your point.  I knew it was going to be different, but I still know the band creating it, so I was still able to marvel at things I would have marveled at anyway.

I do marvel at it as well, it's just that the music is so tied together with the story (and  the lyrics as well), that I view the songs as chapters of a story first and foremost. For example I view Three Days as "the song where Nafaryus gives the ultimatum", rather than "a song with a weird structure and an even weirder swing / jazz section". I still realize, acknowledge and absoutely enjoy that there's stuff never heard before on a DT album, but the songs were made to serve a story and that's how I realized I view them.

Same for Ravenskill as an example, the lyrics go as far as quoting verbatim her exchange with a peasant so to me it's "the song where Faythe goes to Ravenskill and meets Gabriel", rather than "a DT song that starts in a very mellow way and then gets heavier as it goes on".

A while back I posted "Imagine if Three Days was a regular song on a normal DT album, would people love it?" and someone replied "Well, it would be weird to have a random song about a tyrant threatening a village". See? it's hard to take these songs as they are and judging them only for what they are musically, when they're all so tied to the story they're telling.

All of this is a personal observation, and in no way a criticism of the album that I love dearly!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 19, 2016, 01:34:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/PFA795W.jpg)


For anyone that wants to read the credits.

...good luck with that.  Yea, I don't see how that passed QA.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on February 19, 2016, 02:03:24 PM
I can read the credits on my copy of the album without a problem, so I'm not sure what's wrong. Maybe the colour printing is different around the world, or something.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 19, 2016, 02:20:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/PFA795W.jpg)


For anyone that wants to read the credits.

...good luck with that.  Yea, I don't see how that passed QA.

The QA guy is swamped right now. He still needs to check whether DT12 album cover has visible artifacts, or whether there are any cutoffs in the MOB video.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chaossystem on February 19, 2016, 02:28:37 PM
I'm surprised no one has commented on this yet: The beginning of the Palladium concert is up on YouTube! It's NOT a very good video. The camera wobbles around a lot, and the sound cuts out a LOT, including the ending being cut off, but it has an intro and for the most part it is the first three Astonishing tracks. At least it gives us some idea of what the show is and will be...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Clancy Wiggum on February 19, 2016, 02:37:58 PM
Listened to it half a dozen times now (as well as seeing the show in London) and my impressions at this point are that the album is really good. It's too early to say for sure but this could end up being my favourite album from them.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 19, 2016, 02:40:29 PM
I'm surprised no one has commented on this yet: The beginning of the Palladium concert is up on YouTube! It's NOT a very good video. The camera wobbles around a lot, and the sound cuts out a LOT, including the ending being cut off, but it has an intro and for the most part it is the first three Astonishing tracks. At least it gives us some idea of what the show is and will be...
Have you even read the Palladium thread?  There are a ton of videos posted there (i.e., in the thread where they belong), including a couple of different ones of the opening songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 19, 2016, 06:14:48 PM
Jesus, whose idea was it to put white text over an image of clouds?  :facepalm:

Probably the same nimrod who decided to staple the booklet to the inside of the digipak (or whatever the hell it is called).

As great as the music is on this record, the packaging was epic fail.  It was clearly done by someone who has never owned a CD, since no one who has, with a brain, would have done that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 19, 2016, 06:22:50 PM
So I saw some of the live show videos, and it confirmed what I was suspecting back then.

The Astonishing studio record shortchanged Mangini because the cymbals were too low in the mix. Once you hear what the cymbals are really doing, then you would really get how well Mike composed his parts.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chaossystem on February 19, 2016, 06:50:39 PM
Jesus, whose idea was it to put white text over an image of clouds?  :facepalm:

Probably the same nimrod who decided to staple the booklet to the inside of the digipak (or whatever the hell it is called).

As great as the music is on this record, the packaging was epic fail.  It was clearly done by someone who has never owned a CD, since no one who has, with a brain, would have done that.

really...how the HELL are we supposed to read the credits? And while I don't HATE the booklet being where it is, Having it be detachable would probably have been better.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Heavens_Cove777 on February 19, 2016, 09:12:37 PM
A brilliant album. I think Arhys is one of my favorite fictional characters of all time. His famil
Means so much to him, especially Xander and Gabriel. One of my favorite parts is in the title track when he speaks from beyond the grave telling Gabriel to show his son love and courage and to let him
Know that courage is boundless. Very powerful album, I love it ! :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 19, 2016, 10:31:09 PM
So I saw some of the live show videos, and it confirmed what I was suspecting back then.

The Astonishing studio record shortchanged Mangini because the cymbals were too low in the mix. Once you hear what the cymbals are really doing, then you would really get how well Mike composed his parts.
This is why I wish they would release instrument stems for the entire album. I doubt they will, but man it'd be awesome. Then we could really hear all of Mangini's details as well as some of the choir lyrics that aren't printed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chaossystem on February 19, 2016, 10:38:18 PM
A brilliant album. I think Arhys is one of my favorite fictional characters of all time. His famil
Means so much to him, especially Xander and Gabriel. One of my favorite parts is in the title track when he speaks from beyond the grave telling Gabriel to show his son love and courage and to let him
Know that courage is boundless. Very powerful album, I love it ! :metal

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way...in spite of it not being  the "big rock epic" I STILL feel that he closing track is one of the best parts of the story, and for me, at least, will be considered a DT classic.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 20, 2016, 04:05:05 AM
A brilliant album. I think Arhys is one of my favorite fictional characters of all time. His famil
Means so much to him, especially Xander and Gabriel. One of my favorite parts is in the title track when he speaks from beyond the grave telling Gabriel to show his son love and courage and to let him
Know that courage is boundless. Very powerful album, I love it ! :metal

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way...in spite of it not being  the "big rock epic" I STILL feel that he closing track is one of the best parts of the story, and for me, at least, will be considered a DT classic.
I don't find it all that interesting, but I have to say that in the live show last night and the way they treated it as an encore, it was really great. Really worked perfectly in that way.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 20, 2016, 09:19:26 AM
[quote author=rumborak link=topic=45713.msg2106361#msg2106361 date=1455916826

The QA guy is swamped right now. He still needs to check whether DT12 album cover has visible artifacts, or whether there are any cutoffs in the MOB video.
[/quote]

Heh...oh yea...the DT12 art.  Sounds like they need a new QA person.

The booklet attached to the digi would be fine if it were just credits, but yea no one thought of having to HOLD THAT THING FOR 2 HOURS!   >:( 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on February 20, 2016, 09:25:30 AM


The booklet attached to the digi would be fine if it were just credits, but yea no one thought of having to HOLD THAT THING FOR 2 HOURS!   >:(
That's why I prop it up against something
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on February 22, 2016, 06:10:43 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PFA795W.jpg)


For anyone that wants to read the credits.

...good luck with that.  Yea, I don't see how that passed QA.


I have admit that I was...astonished....at how terrible the contrast is in the booklet.  I'm with you.  The person who approved this either approved something that looked different and the printers screwed it up, or they hired Helen Keller as their graphic artist.   :lol



Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: vazquez on February 22, 2016, 06:11:33 AM
Yesterday I finally bought The Astonishing. I have read dozens of reviews and posts - and even so I was completely surprised by what I´ve heard. Before, I have listened twice to TGoM and once to MoB. It´s hard to think about just one or two things to say, because during the 2 hours+ I spent in completely attention listening to it, many ideas came into my mind. Sound? Perfect. Size of the songs? Not a second too many or too short. The fade out a lot of people complained? It´s correct. James is the star of the show? You bet.

But now I want to point three things:

1) You must have a good stereo system to listen to this album. Silly thing wasting it listening to it in an i-pod or usual mp3 player. This album deserves the best sound system money can buy. In my sound system, every instrument is perfect. The voice is so clear, probably one of the best vocal recording I have ever listened.

2) I have more than 3 thousand albums and I have listened to at least twice that. It´s hard to get something that surprises me. Even more from a band in it´s thirteenth album. And I was surprised at every minute. The album is seemless, and at the same time, it´s daring. That´s something very hard to be done.

3) I believe this album is one of the two or three I have listened when you - your whole being - is an essential part of the listening experience. It has some many details and information on it that what you know, what you have heard before, read, watched, thought, felt, must be used to get you the full experience. Your mind and heart are active instruments that play along with the band.

That´s so much to write and admire, for now let´s say it´s a brave album filled with joy and enthusiasm and it´s something very special and rare in those days we are living.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thematt202 on February 22, 2016, 10:34:12 AM
Amen to that!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on February 22, 2016, 10:56:12 AM
Has anyone drastically changed their opinion either negative or positive with multiple spins under the belt?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 22, 2016, 11:17:43 AM
Has anyone drastically changed their opinion either negative or positive with multiple spins under the belt?

If going "This is pretty good" to "MY GOD THIS IS AMAZING" counts, then yes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on February 22, 2016, 11:19:48 AM
Just looking at the map in the tour book (much clearer double page spread so you can actually make out everything). Doesn't it seem like a missed chance and, ultimately, pointless? There seems to be so many places spread out and really, the Palace and Ravenskill are not that far away.

Plus some of the names sound intriguing. Hell's Gateway? Lake of the Clouds? Sunken Hook?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on February 22, 2016, 11:31:08 AM
Has anyone drastically changed their opinion either negative or positive with multiple spins under the belt?

No, Loved it from 1st spin until present.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 22, 2016, 11:45:53 AM
Has anyone drastically changed their opinion either negative or positive with multiple spins under the belt?

No, Loved it from 1st spin until present.

Same here. Great album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 22, 2016, 11:51:25 AM
Something that I haven't seen mentioned yet:

In the credits (if you look closely) it says "Nafaryus spoken vocal by Richard Chycki". Apart from lines in Lord Nafaryus and Three Days which I'm 99% certain are spoken pompously by JLB, there are no other spoken passages. Unless it refers to the crying section at the beginning of Losing Faythe. In which case, they could easily have got a woman from the choir to do Arabelle's crying, and Faythe's getting-stabbed sounds (which sound like an actual girl rather than JLB).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 22, 2016, 11:58:33 AM
Just looking at the map in the tour book (much clearer double page spread so you can actually make out everything). Doesn't it seem like a missed chance and, ultimately, pointless? There seems to be so many places spread out and really, the Palace and Ravenskill are not that far away.

Plus some of the names sound intriguing. Hell's Gateway? Lake of the Clouds? Sunken Hook?

I think there are various things they can do with this.

1. Multimedia expansion like how JP said that the NOMACS will be focused on in a future novelisation. (which is confirmed)

2. Songs on future albums or EPs telling the events leading up to TA. (would be cool, like a new 12 step suite sort of thing)

3. Full length 1CD prequel in a non-Rock Opera style, but still having some different aspects like more electronic or jazz fusion influence. (would probably work, though would have to wait at least 2 albums for it to be effective)

4. Another full Rock Opera prequel. (probably not going to happen, lol)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on February 22, 2016, 12:00:44 PM
Something that I haven't seen mentioned yet:

In the credits (if you look closely) it says "Nafaryus spoken vocal by Richard Chycki". Apart from lines in Lord Nafaryus and Three Days which I'm 99% certain are spoken pompously by JLB, there are no other spoken passages. Unless it refers to the crying section at the beginning of Losing Faythe. In which case, they could easily have got a woman from the choir to do Arabelle's crying, and Faythe's getting-stabbed sounds (which sound like an actual girl rather than JLB).

The way I hear them, the vocals to the spoken words you mention in "Lord Nafaryus" and "3D" don't seem to come from James, so maybe those are the ones Richard gets credited for. Although, I've only heard Richard's voice in the 'In the studio' clips released in 2013, so I'm not sure.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: vazquez on February 22, 2016, 12:31:29 PM
 :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 22, 2016, 12:38:41 PM
If that's the case, Chycki sounds a hell of a lot like LaBrie then. Too much like him. And it's strange that JLB would stop singing just for those lines then come back in so quickly. He might as well sing/speak the whole thing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on February 22, 2016, 12:44:25 PM
Something that I haven't seen mentioned yet:

In the credits (if you look closely) it says "Nafaryus spoken vocal by Richard Chycki". Apart from lines in Lord Nafaryus and Three Days which I'm 99% certain are spoken pompously by JLB, there are no other spoken passages. Unless it refers to the crying section at the beginning of Losing Faythe. In which case, they could easily have got a woman from the choir to do Arabelle's crying, and Faythe's getting-stabbed sounds (which sound like an actual girl rather than JLB).
I think this has come up before, and folks have floated the theory that it's a misprint -- it's meant to be Arhys, and it's the spoken lines at the beginning of "A Better Life."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 22, 2016, 12:49:39 PM
That makes more sense, indeed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 22, 2016, 12:58:26 PM
2. Songs on future albums or EPs telling the events leading up to TA. (would be cool, like a new 12 step suite sort of thing)
I was thinking this very thing.  Given the sheer amount of work that recording this album entailed, I would imagine that a full prequel or sequel album is doubtful. 

But revisiting this world with individual songs on future albums would be pretty cool.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thematt202 on February 22, 2016, 02:05:19 PM
Darren Redick said last night on his One Man and his Prog show that we shouldn't worry if we didn't get to London this week, as the band WILL be returning to the UK with the Astonishing tour.  No further details were given, just that he "thinks he's allowed to say this now"....
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 22, 2016, 02:11:14 PM
Darren Redick said last night on his One Man and his Prog show that we shouldn't worry if we didn't get to London this week, as the band WILL be returning to the UK with the Astonishing tour.  No further details were given, just that he "thinks he's allowed to say this now"....

I hope the do another US leg as I am likely missing this one.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 22, 2016, 02:13:23 PM
Darren Redick said last night on his One Man and his Prog show that we shouldn't worry if we didn't get to London this week, as the band WILL be returning to the UK with the Astonishing tour.  No further details were given, just that he "thinks he's allowed to say this now"....

I hope the do another US leg as I am likely missing this one.
Same here.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on February 22, 2016, 03:00:38 PM
Darren Redick said last night on his One Man and his Prog show that we shouldn't worry if we didn't get to London this week, as the band WILL be returning to the UK with the Astonishing tour.  No further details were given, just that he "thinks he's allowed to say this now"....

Maybe somewhere NOT London.

OR.. recording at the Palladium  :hat
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: energythief on February 22, 2016, 03:09:42 PM
Has anyone drastically changed their opinion either negative or positive with multiple spins under the belt?


Unfortunately my opinion continues to change for the worse. I will keep plugging away at it because of loyalty. I'm hoping it clicks at some point because I want to be as into it as everyone else here.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: energythief on February 22, 2016, 03:10:08 PM
Sorry, double post.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bacong on February 22, 2016, 04:47:11 PM
seriously, how great is Dystopian Overture?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on February 22, 2016, 04:50:10 PM
seriously, how great is Dystopian Overture?

Hands down my favourite DT instrumental. Knocked Stream of Consciousness down from its throne.   :hefdaddy
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 22, 2016, 05:03:14 PM
seriously, how great is Dystopian Overture?

It's really fucking great. It hasn't quite beat Dance of Eternity of SoC yet, but we'll see.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bacong on February 22, 2016, 05:04:09 PM
Dance of Eternity can suck a dick imo
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 22, 2016, 05:05:29 PM
seriously, how great is Dystopian Overture?
Easily in my top 3 DT instrumentals.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 22, 2016, 05:20:20 PM
Dance of Eternity can suck a dick imo

As long as it's my dick, and I get to listen to it at the same time, I really don't care.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on February 22, 2016, 05:21:08 PM
Dance of Eternity can suck a dick imo
As long as it's my dick, and I get to listen to it at the same time, I really don't care.

 :rollin :rollin :rollin Holy fuck this made me laugh way more than it should.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 22, 2016, 05:23:31 PM
Dance of Eternity can suck a dick imo

Oh, you did NOT just dis The Dance Of Eternity!   :omg:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 22, 2016, 05:26:24 PM
seriously, how great is Dystopian Overture?

Absolutely perfect, it is. All those amazing themes, damn. The X Aspect theme is so beautiful :'(, the Road to Revolution theme sounds glorious :hefdaddy and that Nafaryus theme near the beginning sounds sinister as hell :metal. Best DT overture IMO. So much variety and power.

Dance of Eternity can suck a dick imo

 :lol
On the subject of that song: I've often found it strange that when DT play that song live, they don't follow with OLT even though the end of the song is a transition to it. So it just ends with DOOOO dut-dut-dut DA  DA  DA then, just stops like when people play The Mirror on its own. In the album, when you consider those two songs as one unit as Scene Seven, it works far better than playing either in isolation.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on February 22, 2016, 05:49:38 PM
It seemed to me that they did it that way for the CD split on SFNY. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 22, 2016, 05:54:31 PM
It seemed to me that they did it that way for the CD split on SFNY.

Yeah, but that doesn't sound as good as a proper transition to OLT. IMO of course and I appreciate that the band may have needed a few moments to relax after TDoE.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on February 22, 2016, 06:18:18 PM
Dance of Eternity can suck a dick imo
I wouldn't go that far, but I am quite sick of it myself.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 22, 2016, 06:20:48 PM
The Dance of Eternity is a good tune, and I can see why fans of their more technical side gush over it, but it really does sound out of place on Scenes, and most of their other instrumentals are more interesting and better melodically.  I have said for years that if track 9 on Scenes was as awesome as the rest of the record, that could have been their best ever (and it is in some regards anyway, since Awake, I&W and Scenes are almost like 1a, 1b and 1c for me).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 22, 2016, 06:32:48 PM
Dance is a good 'OMG THEY PLAY FAST NICE BAND I'LL CHECK OUT MORE FAST STUFF BY THEM TR00 MUSICIANS' song.

Nothing more, nothing less.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on February 22, 2016, 06:39:40 PM
Darren Redick said last night on his One Man and his Prog show that we shouldn't worry if we didn't get to London this week, as the band WILL be returning to the UK with the Astonishing tour.  No further details were given, just that he "thinks he's allowed to say this now"....

I am really hoping that DT does another tour, but a mixed set and not just 'The Astonishing'.  They could easily pick some gems off the new cd, the songs off of the self titled not yet played and a few other tunes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on February 22, 2016, 08:39:31 PM
When BC&SL and DT12 were released, it took me a week to get a copy where I live (I wasn't waiting for ADTOE, so I don't know how early it was available here). 'First World Problems', I guess :P

So, on the 30th of last month I entered a record store I frequently visit, and happened to stumble upon 3 copies of the album. Such a nice surprise! :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: AlanCheung on February 23, 2016, 01:38:33 AM
Hi everyone!
This is my first post here :-)
Here's my solo cover video from the new album The Astonishing, check it out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvuiVKc2A6A
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 23, 2016, 01:43:31 AM
I think this has come up before, and folks have floated the theory that it's a misprint -- it's meant to be Arhys, and it's the spoken lines at the beginning of "A Better Life."

That makes much more sense.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on February 23, 2016, 02:08:30 AM
Hi everyone!
This is my first post here :-)
Here's my solo cover video from the new album The Astonishing, check it out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvuiVKc2A6A

Nice job.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peter Mc on February 23, 2016, 06:32:10 AM
Has anyone drastically changed their opinion either negative or positive with multiple spins under the belt?

My only change really is that I was a little disappointed in Act 2 originally, I remember saying that, if there was no Act 1 and Act 2 on it's own was the new DT album, I would be pretty disappointed.  I now love Act 2, it's possibly overtaken the first disc for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 23, 2016, 06:49:48 AM

Has anyone drastically changed their opinion either negative or positive with multiple spins under the belt?

Yes. While the first few spins left me a bit underwhelmed, I'm now finding it to be an amazing album. The lyrics are still a bit mediocre at certain points, but the orchestration is brilliant.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on February 23, 2016, 06:51:59 AM

Has anyone drastically changed their opinion either negative or positive with multiple spins under the belt?

Yes. While the first few spins left me a bit underwhelmed, I'm now finding it to be an amazing album. The lyrics are still a bit mediocre at certain points, but the orchestration is brilliant.

Essentially this.  The more listens, the more I enjoy it.  Although I think I might have reached my point of where I totally get it and am no longer enjoying it more on each listen, but it certainly took awhile to get here.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 23, 2016, 07:01:49 AM

Has anyone drastically changed their opinion either negative or positive with multiple spins under the belt?

Yes. While the first few spins left me a bit underwhelmed, I'm now finding it to be an amazing album. The lyrics are still a bit mediocre at certain points, but the orchestration is brilliant.

Essentially this.  The more listens, the more I enjoy it.  Although I think I might have reached my point of where I totally get it and am no longer enjoying it more on each listen, but it certainly took awhile to get here.

I had said earlier that I don't think it'll crack my Top 5. ADTOE is at number five and to me the sounds on that remind me of Images and Words so it'll be hard to pass that. The Astonishing could wind up right after it. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wolven74 on February 23, 2016, 07:15:23 AM
I love this album, but I'm to the point where I get the story, so now I can skip tracks. When I get to that stage, I can appreciate more songs. Songs like Heaven's Cove, Begin Again were kinda background tracks for me. They filled in the story, but otherwise they really didn't stand out. Now, there are parts of both songs that grab me. I'm curious what the beginning of Heaven's Cove is, story wise. Is it just outdoor atmosphere noises? I also really dig the ending groove of Beginning again. I thought that song was really kinda a bummer, being slower. Then the upbeat faster ending came in, and I thought: That's what this song needs. Beginning again seems more upbeat than a slow song indicates.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DreamerTV on February 23, 2016, 10:46:15 AM
seriously, how great is Dystopian Overture?

It's fucking glorious.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 23, 2016, 11:54:58 AM
seriously, how great is Dystopian Overture?

It's fucking glorious.
Yeah, it's pretty top notch.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on February 23, 2016, 12:01:39 PM
I'm curious what the beginning of Heaven's Cove is, story wise. Is it just outdoor atmosphere noises?

Pretty much, I assume. Heaven's Cove is a sort of open-air amphiteater, and the track takes place at the start of that dramatic night (before any character arrives). You can hear some insect sounds, and some wind (I guess those few metallic sounds are produced by the effect of the wind over some objects). At 0:17/0:18 I hear another short metallic sound which I'd say is a NOMAC watching the place (because there's a similar NOMAC sound at the beginning of "The Path That Divides").

On the topic of "Heaven's Cove": any of you could explain why "Begin Again" comes in between "Heaven's Cove" and "The Path That Divides"? Because it doesn't make sense to me: according to the booklet, "Begin Again" takes place over the day, at the Emperor's Palace, but "Cove" and "Path" are at night in the amphitheater. Any theories?

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 23, 2016, 12:12:23 PM
seriously, how great is Dystopian Overture?

It's fucking glorious.
Yeah, it's pretty top notch.

It's their best overture since Scenes. Easy.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lax on February 23, 2016, 11:52:11 PM
On the topic of "Heaven's Cove": any of you could explain why "Begin Again" comes in between "Heaven's Cove" and "The Path That Divides"? Because it doesn't make sense to me: according to the booklet, "Begin Again" takes place over the day, at the Emperor's Palace, but "Cove" and "Path" are at night in the amphitheater. Any theories?
I swapped them in my playlist because I currently listen A LOT to heaven's cove + the path that divides + walking shadow + my last farewell, but I don't skip begin again because of the christmas theme that I like :)

My theory is that maybe you have to alternate emotions in the opera, avoiding two/three stressfull songs back to back.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 24, 2016, 12:35:41 AM
Mangini's latest FB post:

"I'm happy to see a huge number of new people coming to this page via the new likes since this tour started. It means you really get the magnitude of what we're doing combining the album with the show and given all the obvious risks, especially when a fan has not actually heard, or should I say felt us play this live. I can tell the acoustics and smallest details of the drums are being heard given the design of the venues. That's really awesome !! Given mostly drummers "like" drummers pages, that's usually the foundation of my posts. 3 nights here in Amsterdam. Fun. Looking forward to all the cities we'll hit this year. And yes, we clearly want to visit places not yet booked. Us band guys do not do the booking. We know that people feel personally snubbed... please don't. We WANT to go everywhere, but it does not sometimes work out that the touring organization can feasibly do it. This is a massive production the likes of any arena act and we're only playing for 1/4 of the people of an arena in these venues suited for our show. It is not easy to work that out."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on February 24, 2016, 01:25:02 AM
You guys HAVE to go see this show live if you get the opportunity. It's easily the best concert experience I've ever encountered in my entire life. So glad I decided to buy a ticket and its SO worth the money.

Its a total sensory experience.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gappie on February 24, 2016, 04:43:31 AM
seriously, how great is Dystopian Overture?

It's fucking glorious.
Yeah, it's pretty top notch.
I saw them perform the song live two days ago. Wow, very very good. A little bit slower than the album version but spot on.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 24, 2016, 04:55:40 AM
I saw them perform the song live two days ago. Wow, very very good. A little bit slower than the album version but spot on.

It might have seemed slower, seeing it live, but I wouldn't think the tempo would be different if they were syncing to a backing track for all the orchestral bits and pieces.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 24, 2016, 05:00:25 AM
Yep, they're using the studio tempos for the entire show to keep the video/light show synced. Studio tempos don't always translate with the same energy live.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 24, 2016, 05:31:58 AM
I imagine the show would last over 130 actual minutes since they'd have pauses between songs i'd imagine ?

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Peter Mc on February 24, 2016, 06:40:56 AM
Not really any pauses that I remember apart from intermission obviously.  No between song banter from JLB, at least not on opening night.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on February 24, 2016, 07:05:04 AM
There are some short pauzes between songs, for instance when JP changes guitars or to accoustic. Other then the occasional 'Are you with us?' or "are you ready?' from James, there's no banter.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 24, 2016, 07:16:45 AM
I imagine the show would last over 130 actual minutes since they'd have pauses between songs i'd imagine ?


It is longer, yeah. Firstly for pauses between songs, secondly for the slightly extended ending for AND, and also for the introduction before Descent, which lasts a couple of minutes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: keys76 on February 24, 2016, 12:36:04 PM
Spoke to JP after last night gig in Amsterdam and he told me a somewhat dramatic story about the recordings. They intended to have the Nomacs parts shorter than they turned out to be. So after mastering he received a call where he was told that Act 1 wouldn't fit on one disc. Since everything with regards to artwork and tracklists were already published they had to make a hard decision to cut the guitar solo of New Beginning. That's why it fades out. Originally the solo lasted 3 to 4 minutes longer!
But.......during the live shows you will witness the full guitarsolo how it was intented to be. Hands down one of the most beautiful solos ever.

Thoughtt you might like this info.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 24, 2016, 12:38:20 PM
Spoke to JP after last night gig in Amsterdam and he told me a somewhat dramatic story about the recordings. They intended to have the Nomacs parts shorter than they turned out to be. So after mastering he received a call where he was told that Act 1 wouldn't fit on one disc. Since everything with regards to artwork and tracklists were already published they had to make a hard decision to cut the guitar solo of New Beginning. That's why it fades out. Originally the solo lasted 3 to 4 minutes longer!
But.......during the live shows you will witness the full guitarsolo how it was intented to be. Hands down one of the most beautiful solos ever.

Thoughtt you might like this info.

Oh, wow.  Cool info.  Funny how little logistical SNAFU's like that can end up influencing the final product, and most of the time, the public would have no clue about why it ended up the way it did.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: genome on February 24, 2016, 12:41:22 PM
Spoke to JP after last night gig in Amsterdam and he told me a somewhat dramatic story about the recordings. They intended to have the Nomacs parts shorter than they turned out to be. So after mastering he received a call where he was told that Act 1 wouldn't fit on one disc. Since everything with regards to artwork and tracklists were already published they had to make a hard decision to cut the guitar solo of New Beginning. That's why it fades out. Originally the solo lasted 3 to 4 minutes longer!
But.......during the live shows you will witness the full guitarsolo how it was intented to be. Hands down one of the most beautiful solos ever.

Thoughtt you might like this info.

Nice! Thanks for sharing. It was great live, on Friday it got a big standing ovation.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 24, 2016, 12:42:15 PM
Even if the tracklist wasn't already published, I guess the format of the story would have doomed them anyway... it would have made no sense to have The Road to Revolution as opener of the second disc for example.

Didn't Metalica have to cut out the last minute of Load for example? the live version of A New Beginning will go down as the "uncut" version hehe!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 24, 2016, 12:59:52 PM
Spoke to JP after last night gig in Amsterdam and he told me a somewhat dramatic story about the recordings. They intended to have the Nomacs parts shorter than they turned out to be.

Cool little nugget. When you say they intended to have the nomacs parts shorter, does that mean they extended them on purpose? Not sure I understand that bit.  :huh:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 24, 2016, 01:13:15 PM
He probably meant longer.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 24, 2016, 01:14:39 PM
He probably meant longer.

That's what I was thinking. If they were originally longer and had to be trimmed back to fit..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 24, 2016, 01:21:35 PM
Spoke to JP after last night gig in Amsterdam and he told me a somewhat dramatic story about the recordings. They intended to have the Nomacs parts shorter than they turned out to be.

Cool little nugget. When you say they intended to have the nomacs parts shorter, does that mean they extended them on purpose? Not sure I understand that bit.  :huh:

I took it the opposite of how you did.  I understood him to mean that they were originally planned to be shorter such that everything intended to be on disk 1 would have fit.  But once all the sounds were mixed and finalized, those NOMAC tracks ended up being a bit longer than he thought they would have been, which messed everything up. 

If that is the case, yeah, they could theoretically have re-recorded the NOMAC tracks.  But if it was very late in the production process, even doing that could have caused a chain reaction in the process that could have ended up bumping the release date, which they did not want to do given the shows planned.  It was probably much easier to take an existing song that is already mixed and mastered and fade out the ending.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 24, 2016, 01:22:04 PM
Even if the tracklist wasn't already published, I guess the format of the story would have doomed them anyway... it would have made no sense to have The Road to Revolution as opener of the second disc for example.

Didn't Metalica have to cut out the last minute of Load for example? the live version of A New Beginning will go down as the "uncut" version hehe!

Yes. Hence " The Outlaw Torn ( Unencumbered by manufacturing restrictions ) " version .
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 24, 2016, 01:38:42 PM
I took it the opposite of how you did.  I understood him to mean that they were originally planned to be shorter such that everything intended to be on disk 1 would have fit.  But once all the sounds were mixed and finalized, those NOMAC tracks ended up being a bit longer than he thought they would have been, which messed everything up. 

If that is the case, yeah, they could theoretically have re-recorded the NOMAC tracks.  But if it was very late in the production process, even doing that could have caused a chain reaction in the process that could have ended up bumping the release date, which they did not want to do given the shows planned.  It was probably much easier to take an existing song that is already mixed and mastered and fade out the ending.

Ah right - I get you. So perhaps a 3rd party was involved in generating the nomac sounds, and when they came back they were longer than expected, so something else had to give.  Makes perfect sense :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 24, 2016, 01:40:46 PM
I'm not sure it was a third party.  I think it was all Jordan.  But those NOMAC sounds consist of several different tracks of Jordan playing a bunch of different sounds.  I imagine it wasn't really clear exactly how long they would be until whoever was in charge of mixing them mixed all the various tracks together to produce the final version of each of those.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 24, 2016, 01:50:05 PM
So it's Jordan's fault that a perfectly good guitar solo got faded out, is that what we're saying? Tut tut. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 24, 2016, 02:22:26 PM
Spoke to JP after last night gig in Amsterdam and he told me a somewhat dramatic story about the recordings. They intended to have the Nomacs parts shorter than they turned out to be. So after mastering he received a call where he was told that Act 1 wouldn't fit on one disc. Since everything with regards to artwork and tracklists were already published they had to make a hard decision to cut the guitar solo of New Beginning. That's why it fades out. Originally the solo lasted 3 to 4 minutes longer!
But.......during the live shows you will witness the full guitarsolo how it was intented to be. Hands down one of the most beautiful solos ever.

Thoughtt you might like this info.
I actually thought that might be the case, given the length of the disc and the fact that this never-ending outro was the only fadeout.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 24, 2016, 02:36:57 PM
Mangini's latest FB post:
.... I can tell the acoustics and smallest details of the drums are being heard given the design of the venues....

That's probably true for the European venues, but the Orpheum in Boston will not be that. It's an old theater venue that was run down by decades of drunken metal fans, with the stucco falling off, and the PA booming the place to a pulp. Now, the Boston Opera House that BTFW was filmed in, that was a nice venue.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 24, 2016, 03:07:15 PM
I'm not sure it was a third party.  I think it was all Jordan.  But those NOMAC sounds consist of several different tracks of Jordan playing a bunch of different sounds.  I imagine it wasn't really clear exactly how long they would be until whoever was in charge of mixing them mixed all the various tracks together to produce the final version of each of those.

Looks like you were right about Jordan creating the NOMAC sounds. From this article, which is a good read: https://www.keyboardmag.com/artists/1236/astonishing-the-many-facets-of-jordan-rudess/56682
Quote
Though this is definitely a “Dream Theater album,” it called upon us to go even deeper and broader than we normally do. It’s . . . fusion of sorts. In one sense it’s “prog,” but it goes beyond any combination of elements we’ve ever done. Some of that fell to me. I had to go into my electronica world to create the sound of the Noise Machine creatures, which enforce for the bad guys.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Gappie on February 24, 2016, 03:12:57 PM
Spoke to JP after last night gig in Amsterdam and he told me a somewhat dramatic story about the recordings. They intended to have the Nomacs parts shorter than they turned out to be. So after mastering he received a call where he was told that Act 1 wouldn't fit on one disc. Since everything with regards to artwork and tracklists were already published they had to make a hard decision to cut the guitar solo of New Beginning. That's why it fades out. Originally the solo lasted 3 to 4 minutes longer!
But.......during the live shows you will witness the full guitarsolo how it was intented to be. Hands down one of the most beautiful solos ever.

Thoughtt you might like this info.

Nice! Thanks for sharing. It was great live, on Friday it got a big standing ovation.
Yup it was great live! They also got  a big standing ovation in Amsterdam afterwards. Lasted a couple of minutes actually.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 24, 2016, 08:26:48 PM
I'm not sure it was a third party.  I think it was all Jordan.  But those NOMAC sounds consist of several different tracks of Jordan playing a bunch of different sounds.  I imagine it wasn't really clear exactly how long they would be until whoever was in charge of mixing them mixed all the various tracks together to produce the final version of each of those.

Looks like you were right about Jordan creating the NOMAC sounds. From this article, which is a good read: https://www.keyboardmag.com/artists/1236/astonishing-the-many-facets-of-jordan-rudess/56682
Quote
Though this is definitely a “Dream Theater album,” it called upon us to go even deeper and broader than we normally do. It’s . . . fusion of sorts. In one sense it’s “prog,” but it goes beyond any combination of elements we’ve ever done. Some of that fell to me. I had to go into my electronica world to create the sound of the Noise Machine creatures, which enforce for the bad guys.
I thought it was pretty common knowledge from before the album came out that Jordan was responsible for creating the NOMAC tracks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on February 24, 2016, 08:33:12 PM
Spoke to JP after last night gig in Amsterdam and he told me a somewhat dramatic story about the recordings. They intended to have the Nomacs parts shorter than they turned out to be. So after mastering he received a call where he was told that Act 1 wouldn't fit on one disc. Since everything with regards to artwork and tracklists were already published they had to make a hard decision to cut the guitar solo of New Beginning. That's why it fades out. Originally the solo lasted 3 to 4 minutes longer!
But.......during the live shows you will witness the full guitarsolo how it was intented to be. Hands down one of the most beautiful solos ever.

Thoughtt you might like this info.

Cool info, thanks for sharing!

And given the day and age we live in, I think it would have been cool for DT to take the original A New Beginning and put it on iTunes as a song you can buy individually, for those who want it.  It would be so easy to do!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 24, 2016, 09:06:52 PM
I listened to a recording of the 2/22nd show, and the A New Beginning solo is definitely not 3 to 4 minutes longer. It's just like the London videos, maybe 30 seconds added at most. So is there more that they are going to add to it? If JP says it's 3-4 minutes longer there must be some stuff they still haven't played on the tour.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 24, 2016, 09:52:47 PM
Spoke to JP after last night gig in Amsterdam and he told me a somewhat dramatic story about the recordings. They intended to have the Nomacs parts shorter than they turned out to be. So after mastering he received a call where he was told that Act 1 wouldn't fit on one disc. Since everything with regards to artwork and tracklists were already published they had to make a hard decision to cut the guitar solo of New Beginning. That's why it fades out. Originally the solo lasted 3 to 4 minutes longer!
But.......during the live shows you will witness the full guitarsolo how it was intented to be. Hands down one of the most beautiful solos ever.

Thoughtt you might like this info.
I actually thought that might be the case, given the length of the disc and the fact that this never-ending outro was the only fadeout.

This was my theory all along, between the ANB solo and the extended version of Descent of the NOMACS.

They could totally release ANB as a single EP with the extended cut. I'm sure many of us would buy it, myself included.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on February 25, 2016, 09:58:47 AM
After the initial listen straight thru with one break, I was thinking wtf did I just listen to.  I took the advice of other folks and listened to about 4 songs at a time.  Act1 clicked first, but Act2 took longer.  I need to take this off my ipod until after the concert in 2 months.  I find myself listening to the cd all of the time.  I have avoided the you tube videos.  Most you tube videos do not sound close to the actual concert.  I have looked at some awesome pictures someone posted in the concert section of the second London show.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 25, 2016, 10:11:22 AM
The Astonishing doesn't have many tracks you can just put on and listen to.

Mostly I start at the beginning of an Act and keep listening.

Or I put on Our New World :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 25, 2016, 11:39:14 AM
I'm still listening to it from start to finish.

I already have figured out how my "abridged version" will look like, but I want to do it only after my show... I don't want to get used to the short version and then go at the concert "Meh, I forgot about this song"  :laugh:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on February 25, 2016, 11:58:08 AM
I've always felt that A New beginning fades out because they needed to fit the entire act one on the disc. It's still a masterpiece of a solo, though, I can only imagine what it would be like if it were longer.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Luoto on February 25, 2016, 01:21:37 PM
I've always felt that A New beginning fades out because they needed to fit the entire act one on the disc. It's still a masterpiece of a solo, though, I can only imagine what it would be like if it were longer.

Your assumption is correct. The solo/instrumental section was supposed to go past the 10 minute mark, and I heard they're doing the full version on tour.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RaasMah on February 25, 2016, 01:27:42 PM
These ANB extended solo news are new to me. What do you think are the odds we will ever hear the real full solo?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 25, 2016, 01:30:27 PM
By "real" I assume you mean the version they recorded in the studio originally, correct?  I think the odds are slim to none.  They aren't planning on releasing singles from this album, so there is no shot at it being released that way (and it is long for a single anyway).  I can't see them releasing it in any other format.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on February 25, 2016, 01:34:23 PM
Mangini's latest FB post:
.... I can tell the acoustics and smallest details of the drums are being heard given the design of the venues....

That's probably true for the European venues, but the Orpheum in Boston will not be that. It's an old theater venue that was run down by decades of drunken metal fans, with the stucco falling off, and the PA booming the place to a pulp. Now, the Boston Opera House that BTFW was filmed in, that was a nice venue.

It's still better than the Palladium in Worcester, Mass.  I can only assume that is what hell is like.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 25, 2016, 01:42:41 PM
I've always felt that A New beginning fades out because they needed to fit the entire act one on the disc. It's still a masterpiece of a solo, though, I can only imagine what it would be like if it were longer.

Your assumption is correct. The solo/instrumental section was supposed to go past the 10 minute mark, and I heard they're doing the full version on tour.
10 minute mark? That doesn't sound right at all. At the London show, they only went on maybe another 30 seconds.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hypnotoad on February 25, 2016, 02:38:23 PM
Spoke to JP after last night gig in Amsterdam and he told me a somewhat dramatic story about the recordings. They intended to have the Nomacs parts shorter than they turned out to be. So after mastering he received a call where he was told that Act 1 wouldn't fit on one disc. Since everything with regards to artwork and tracklists were already published they had to make a hard decision to cut the guitar solo of New Beginning. That's why it fades out. Originally the solo lasted 3 to 4 minutes longer!
But.......during the live shows you will witness the full guitarsolo how it was intented to be. Hands down one of the most beautiful solos ever.

Thoughtt you might like this info.

It's a shame that they had to adhere to the 80 min CD limit when so much music is listened to digitally. I'd love them to release A New Beginning (Extended Version) with the full guitar solo as a single . It would be so good to add the full track into the album instead of the faded out version
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RaasMah on February 25, 2016, 02:42:00 PM
By "real" I assume you mean the version they recorded in the studio originally, correct?  I think the odds are slim to none.  They aren't planning on releasing singles from this album, so there is no shot at it being released that way (and it is long for a single anyway).  I can't see them releasing it in any other format.

That is correct. I know the chance are slim but they arent zero I think. I bet its somewhere on their hard drives. Who knows, maybe in some future "greatest hit nr 2"... one can only hope.

I just find it such a shame. It really is one of my favoriets solo of JP, and to think it supposed to last for 3 more mins makes me want to hear it so bad.

Do you think its possible to get the band opinion of this matter?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 25, 2016, 02:54:26 PM
I just find it such a shame. It really is one of my favoriets solo of JP, and to think it supposed to last for 3 more mins makes me want to hear it so bad.
As I said above, 3 minutes doesn't sound right. keys76 said we're getting to hear the full thing like, and it only went on about 30 seconds more.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RaasMah on February 25, 2016, 03:10:11 PM
I just find it such a shame. It really is one of my favoriets solo of JP, and to think it supposed to last for 3 more mins makes me want to hear it so bad.
As I said above, 3 minutes doesn't sound right. keys76 said we're getting to hear the full thing like, and it only went on about 30 seconds more.

Maybe they stick to the studio version, and just finish it without a fadeout. I was there too and it was indeed not really an extended solo.

3 min seems much to me too, but if JP really said it then it has to be there somewhere. I wish we could just get this sorted by someone of the band.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 25, 2016, 03:14:00 PM
What is there left to sort out?  The solo fades out a bit before the end because they ran out of space on the album.  JP is playing pretty much the full solo at the shows.  What is the issue?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on February 25, 2016, 03:30:42 PM
I think people are just a bit intrigued by the fact that there is a studio version of an extended JP solo that hasn't been released, since this is probably the first time since FII where DT has recorded something that they haven't released. It's also interesting to think that JP probably has a copy of the song with the full solo, since he had to practice and relearn the songs before the tour. It would be a cool thing for them to upload to youtube so we can hear it in it's entirety. They probably won't do it, but it would still be a cool thing for them to do.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 25, 2016, 04:41:38 PM
I just checked the bootlegs for the shows on 2/18 and 2/22 and the solo isn't any longer than it is on the studio album.  It clocks in at about 2 and half minutes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on February 25, 2016, 05:07:59 PM
Mangini's latest FB post:
.... I can tell the acoustics and smallest details of the drums are being heard given the design of the venues....

That's probably true for the European venues, but the Orpheum in Boston will not be that. It's an old theater venue that was run down by decades of drunken metal fans, with the stucco falling off, and the PA booming the place to a pulp. Now, the Boston Opera House that BTFW was filmed in, that was a nice venue.

It's still better than the Palladium in Worcester, Mass.  I can only assume that is what hell is like.

Ha ha, been there twice. Quite a place.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 25, 2016, 07:08:10 PM
Did JP really say that the ANB solo is supposed to be 3-4 minutes longer? Or did he mean that it was supposed to be 3-4 minutes long in total, not the 2min + solo that we got in the studio version?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 26, 2016, 12:01:11 AM
Did JP really say that the ANB solo is supposed to be 3-4 minutes longer? Or did he mean that it was supposed to be 3-4 minutes long in total, not the 2min + solo that we got in the studio version?
This seems more realistic.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RaasMah on February 26, 2016, 12:54:01 AM
What is there left to sort out?  The solo fades out a bit before the end because they ran out of space on the album.  JP is playing pretty much the full solo at the shows.  What is the issue?

If JP indeed said that there is a longer version of the solo, than I would have really wanted to hear it. The recent shows doesnt seem to fit into that "longer" slot, just a way to finish the song live.

erwinrafael suggestion makes sense, and would explain this confusion. Im just dreaming about an official word about this, so we would know if there really is a much longer version of the solo somewhere in the DT lab.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 26, 2016, 08:03:12 AM
It fades out before the end.  Of course there is a longer version. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on February 26, 2016, 09:08:39 AM
Cool to hear JP's response to why the solo fades out. All in all not that big of a deal BUT it is something I wondered about from
the first listen. Everything else flows so naturally into the next song but that was the only one that took a different approach.
I think it was natural to wonder why?

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 26, 2016, 09:16:19 AM
Act 1 is near-enough 80 minutes (my player displays 79:59), and the NOMAC tracks on that disc totals 2:14, so that's the longest possible extra time for the solo to be extended if the NOMAC tracks were removed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 26, 2016, 09:26:09 AM
Act 1 is near-enough 80 minutes (my player displays 79:59), and the NOMAC tracks on that disc totals 2:14, so that's the longest possible extra time for the solo to be extended if the NOMAC tracks were removed.

I get why you say that, but that isn't necessarily true.  Although I don't think this is the case, hypothetically, the solo could have been, say, 5 minutes longer.  But maybe fading it out at some point later would not have made sense because, let's say, the way the solo was structured, the logical place to start fading it out is much earlier.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 26, 2016, 09:35:21 AM
I think RoeDent was merely suggested the maximum possible, rather than suggested it was that amount longer. Though that's still based on an assumption that the whole of Act I fit on a disc without the NOMAC tracks, which may not be the case.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 26, 2016, 10:30:39 AM
It fades out before the end.  Of course there is a longer version.
This.  There is no revelation here.

But if they start releasing "full" versions of album "fadeout" songs, I want Learning to Live WAY before this one.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BelichickFan on February 26, 2016, 12:00:40 PM
If there's really a long version of A New Beginning they should just sell it on itunes for a couple of bucks.  They win, we win.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 26, 2016, 12:11:06 PM
I'd buy that for a dollar.

( 72p )
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on February 26, 2016, 01:39:50 PM
Act 1 is near-enough 80 minutes (my player displays 79:59), and the NOMAC tracks on that disc totals 2:14, so that's the longest possible extra time for the solo to be extended if the NOMAC tracks were removed.

My stereo displays 80:01, which doesn't make much sense to me. I'm now thinking that all of this time the stereo has added 2 extra seconds to the original lengths of my CDs. I was wrong all this time! :P

What does your player display for Act 2? I get 50:41.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: GasparXR on February 26, 2016, 01:56:40 PM
Act 1 is near-enough 80 minutes (my player displays 79:59), and the NOMAC tracks on that disc totals 2:14, so that's the longest possible extra time for the solo to be extended if the NOMAC tracks were removed.

My stereo displays 80:01, which doesn't make much sense to me. I'm now thinking that all of this time the stereo has added 2 extra seconds to the original lengths of my CDs. I was wrong all this time! :P

What does your player display for Act 2? I get 50:41.

Mine says 80:01 as well. Adding 2 seconds to the total time might be the case on many systems.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 26, 2016, 02:15:07 PM
Act 1 is near-enough 80 minutes (my player displays 79:59), and the NOMAC tracks on that disc totals 2:14, so that's the longest possible extra time for the solo to be extended if the NOMAC tracks were removed.

My stereo displays 80:01, which doesn't make much sense to me. I'm now thinking that all of this time the stereo has added 2 extra seconds to the original lengths of my CDs. I was wrong all this time! :P

What does your player display for Act 2? I get 50:41.

Mine says 80:01 as well. Adding 2 seconds to the total time might be the case on many systems.
Importing songs into certain programs can lead to an extra second being add here or there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 26, 2016, 02:41:46 PM
My CD player says 80:01 also.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 26, 2016, 02:42:31 PM
My CD player says 80:01 also.

Um...it's a Music Player!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on February 26, 2016, 04:07:04 PM
Mine says 79:59 for Act 1 and 50:39 for Act 2
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 26, 2016, 05:20:01 PM
My foobar says that my HDTracks version of TA Disc 1 is 1 hour 19 minutes and 58.966 seconds
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on February 26, 2016, 08:57:44 PM
Mine says 79:59 for Act 1 and 50:39 for Act 2

What I suspected! Thanks.

Mine says 80:01 as well. Adding 2 seconds to the total time might be the case on many systems.

Yeah, I thought about it. That is happening with mine, apparently. I don't understand why, though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on February 26, 2016, 09:32:56 PM
My foobar says that my HDTracks version of TA Disc 1 is 1 hour 19 minutes and 58.966 seconds
That's.....oddly specific.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Train of Naught on February 27, 2016, 03:01:29 AM
Listening to the album for the 3rd or 4th time in full now (I believe it's the 4th), songs really start growing on me more now, even the ones I disliked at first. But yeah.. the magnitude of this album will keep me from playing it regularly. Though I can already safely say The Astonishing is going to end up on my "best of 2016" list, probably top 10 and maybe even top 5.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on February 27, 2016, 04:25:15 AM
Act 1 is near-enough 80 minutes (my player displays 79:59), and the NOMAC tracks on that disc totals 2:14, so that's the longest possible extra time for the solo to be extended if the NOMAC tracks were removed.

My stereo displays 80:01, which doesn't make much sense to me. I'm now thinking that all of this time the stereo has added 2 extra seconds to the original lengths of my CDs. I was wrong all this time! :P

What does your player display for Act 2? I get 50:41.

My big CD player actually displays 80:01, while my portable player says 79:59. Idk why, but that's how it is. It's the same with Porcupine Tree's Stupid Dream. Big player says 60:01, small one 59:59.

As for Act 2, 50:41 is correct.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 27, 2016, 04:28:09 AM
I love how these little differences screw up a band's intention to have a song lasting a round number, for example the 12:00 minutes of Finally Free or the 24:00 of Octavarium  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: 1neeto on February 27, 2016, 08:07:54 AM
So I've given the album about 5 listens and I just finally did the whole thing with the lyric book in one sitting (during a long flight lol). I really want to like this album, I really do since it's such an ambitious project. It has very brilliant and goosebumps moments, but after going through the whole thing with the lyric book, I feel like I just watched a ok movie that while it had its moments, I don't see myself watching again. Maybe it needs more listens, but for now, I'm far from "Astonished".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on February 27, 2016, 12:31:08 PM
I think you need about ten more listens.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on February 27, 2016, 07:33:36 PM
There's this new interview with Jordan, posted yesterday on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5Q-d4tnxj8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5Q-d4tnxj8)
Not that much new info, but some cool bits:

-He plays this nice sound on his iPad: https://youtu.be/v5Q-d4tnxj8?t=16m12s (https://youtu.be/v5Q-d4tnxj8?t=16m12s). I wish it would have been included on the album.
-Towards the end of the interview, he mentions that the current tour will probably last into 2017, with second visits to Europe and the US.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on February 28, 2016, 09:10:38 AM
I'm soon on my way to see the show in Oslo tonight :tup I just can't wait anymore. I have stayed away from all youtube videos, i didn't want anything spoiled  ;)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Freshmuse on February 28, 2016, 10:53:19 AM
Been a fan since Images… watched the band evolve, stretch their minds and challenge their musical prowess. They have never shied away from trying new things, venturing into uncharted territory. Each new album unveiled some new talent/ability/idea. I'm also an un-apologetic fan of SciFi and speculative fiction--hell, DT actually influenced a few of my novels and short stories. The Great Debate inspired me to pen my stem cell tech thriller: Rubicon Harvest [url]https://cwkesting.com/Home_Page.html/url]!!! I grew up with the classic "rock opera" masterpieces: Rush's 2112, Hemisphere's, etc... Pink Floyd's The Wall. Queensryche's Operation:Mindcrime. Even DT's own Metropolis and SDOIT. These are enduring effective classics. They shake up your psyche and affect you viscerally. They are so good that any individual chapter in any particular story can stand alone as a seminal piece. But then there are the many other failing attempts at elaborate "concept musical theatrics". Saga's Generation 13 comes to mind.

So I was excited and intrigued about TA. Especially from my favorite artists.

That being said, I really wanted--perhaps expected--to enjoy this new project. And that's what Astonishing feels like, a project. A LONG project that sat on JP's creative shelf for far too long and while perhaps it needed air, should've been edited a bit more before being rolled out . So here's my two cents:

In a phrase, DT "jumped the shark" with this one. It's a sluggish slog through an adolescent fantasy world that doesn't deliver on it's promise. Clearly JP wanted to make this for awhile and the rest of the guys acquiesced. That's what lifelong friends and professionals do. So they let JP entertain this teenage muse of his that has been gnawing away at the creative folds of his brain ever since he listened to 2112 for the first time--(For clearly, that is what TA aspires toward). The problem is that the story itself never gets there, in my opinion. The difference here is that Neil Peart understood Ayn Rand and her brilliant story, Anthem, so well, that he was able to condense the philosophy into lyrical perfection. In the case of TA, we don't actually see anything new (or exciting or thought provoking) happening here other than it's happening in some make-believe World of Warcraft realm. The plot is loose, convoluted and eventually (after two hours) contracts a serious case of deus ex machina . It reads like Shakespeare trying his hand at a Spanish soap opera, unfortunately.  I won't take up too much space here dissecting the characters, other than to start with their ridiculous names (Nafaryus, really?) and end with their weak motivations. There's also a HUGE void in the concept: From start to finish I kept asking WHY? Why does this dystopian society reject music? And how does that give Nafaryus control over the people? What exactly is Gabriel's musical "power" (gift, talent, whatever)--we're led to believe it's his "song". Is this metaphorical or literal; and how do either give him actual power? How in the hell do all the people suddenly and inexplicably unify their voices--and again why? So what? What new world are they pining for and why is the current world so bad. We never see the oppression of Nafaryus's reign. It's simply assumed that he is bad ('cuz he's.. you know Nafaryus). And the NOMACS? What are they, why are they and who cares? Yet, they're the de facto "face of the album".

 I think JP was hoping we'd all get the same shivers we got when Jon discovered the relic guitar in 2112 and took it to the Priests in the Temple of Sirynx. But Rush accomplished this magic in a fraction of the time and space that JP did. Don't get me wrong--I love JP and in my opinion he is one of--if not THE--best guitarists around. But as a lyricists (or even conceptualist) he is lacking. I think, overall, DT has lost a step (or ten) in their "lyrical composition" since parting ways with MP. Granted, we were all pretty tired of the alcoholic diatribes and aggressive pomposity that MP saturated us with (BTW, I am an alcoholic and appreciate his efforts the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd times. It got preachy-old after that). But, overall TA is a weak attempt at telling a worn-out tale while dressed as a MMORPG.

As for the musicality, well…. it's also less than impressive. And that probably bums me out the most. I could always count on the guys blowing me away with their individual craftsmanship--even if the lyrics didn't ring my bell. But with TA… I see none of the sweeping melodies that transition to amazing solo sections. I see none of the showcase bridges anywhere within this epic movie score. No memorable guitar riffs, no heart thumping bass wakeup calls, no staccato drum segue's. Just a lot of James crooning and Jordan's nimble fingers. Oh, there are little tastes: brief wiffs of something developing on the periphery of all the costume pomp and melodrama. But aside from the NOMACS creepy cool mechanizations… there's nothing that gives me that classic DT shot-in-the arm. I always try to get my 15 year old son to appreciate DT and he has grown to enjoy the classics. We have moments when we both are like: "Now THAT"S why JP is one of the best guitarist! Just listen to Myung's bas riff here--the speed and dexterity!! Have you ever heard drumming that precise?!" There was none of that for me anywhere in TA. And that, more than the cheesy plot material, disappoints the greatest.

I hope they get this silliness out of their system, have a great tour, and get back to composing music with substance and style. They already nailed the rock opera genre with Metropolis; scored symphonically with SDOIT and An Evening with…  In my humble opinion, The Astonishing didn't need to be made other than to get it out of JP's head and clear the way for better stuff.

Just one old fan's opinion.

Thanks and sorry for the long post. I don't post much (if ever) but this album bugged me enough...

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: 1neeto on February 28, 2016, 01:25:24 PM
Been a fan since Images… watched the band evolve, stretch their minds and challenge their musical prowess. They have never shied away from trying new things, venturing into uncharted territory. Each new album unveiled some new talent/ability/idea. I'm also an un-apologetic fan of SciFi and speculative fiction--hell, DT actually influenced a few of my novels and short stories. The Great Debate inspired me to pen my stem cell tech thriller: Rubicon Harvest [url]https://cwkesting.com/Home_Page.html/url]!!! I grew up with the classic "rock opera" masterpieces: Rush's 2112, Hemisphere's, etc... Pink Floyd's The Wall. Queensryche's Operation:Mindcrime. Even DT's own Metropolis and SDOIT. These are enduring effective classics. They shake up your psyche and affect you viscerally. They are so good that any individual chapter in any particular story can stand alone as a seminal piece. But then there are the many other failing attempts at elaborate "concept musical theatrics". Saga's Generation 13 comes to mind.

So I was excited and intrigued about TA. Especially from my favorite artists.

That being said, I really wanted--perhaps expected--to enjoy this new project. And that's what Astonishing feels like, a project. A LONG project that sat on JP's creative shelf for far too long and while perhaps it needed air, should've been edited a bit more before being rolled out . So here's my two cents:

In a phrase, DT "jumped the shark" with this one. It's a sluggish slog through an adolescent fantasy world that doesn't deliver on it's promise. Clearly JP wanted to make this for awhile and the rest of the guys acquiesced. That's what lifelong friends and professionals do. So they let JP entertain this teenage muse of his that has been gnawing away at the creative folds of his brain ever since he listened to 2112 for the first time--(For clearly, that is what TA aspires toward). The problem is that the story itself never gets there, in my opinion. The difference here is that Neil Peart understood Ayn Rand and her brilliant story, Anthem, so well, that he was able to condense the philosophy into lyrical perfection. In the case of TA, we don't actually see anything new (or exciting or thought provoking) happening here other than it's happening in some make-believe World of Warcraft realm. The plot is loose, convoluted and eventually (after two hours) contracts a serious case of deus ex machina . It reads like Shakespeare trying his hand at a Spanish soap opera, unfortunately.  I won't take up too much space here dissecting the characters, other than to start with their ridiculous names (Nafaryus, really?) and end with their weak motivations. There's also a HUGE void in the concept: From start to finish I kept asking WHY? Why does this dystopian society reject music? And how does that give Nafaryus control over the people? What exactly is Gabriel's musical "power" (gift, talent, whatever)--we're led to believe it's his "song". Is this metaphorical or literal; and how do either give him actual power? How in the hell do all the people suddenly and inexplicably unify their voices--and again why? So what? What new world are they pining for and why is the current world so bad. We never see the oppression of Nafaryus's reign. It's simply assumed that he is bad ('cuz he's.. you know Nafaryus). And the NOMACS? What are they, why are they and who cares? Yet, they're the de facto "face of the album".

 I think JP was hoping we'd all get the same shivers we got when Jon discovered the relic guitar in 2112 and took it to the Priests in the Temple of Sirynx. But Rush accomplished this magic in a fraction of the time and space that JP did. Don't get me wrong--I love JP and in my opinion he is one of--if not THE--best guitarists around. But as a lyricists (or even conceptualist) he is lacking. I think, overall, DT has lost a step (or ten) in their "lyrical composition" since parting ways with MP. Granted, we were all pretty tired of the alcoholic diatribes and aggressive pomposity that MP saturated us with (BTW, I am an alcoholic and appreciate his efforts the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd times. It got preachy-old after that). But, overall TA is a weak attempt at telling a worn-out tale while dressed as a MMORPG.

As for the musicality, well…. it's also less than impressive. And that probably bums me out the most. I could always count on the guys blowing me away with their individual craftsmanship--even if the lyrics didn't ring my bell. But with TA… I see none of the sweeping melodies that transition to amazing solo sections. I see none of the showcase bridges anywhere within this epic movie score. No memorable guitar riffs, no heart thumping bass wakeup calls, no staccato drum segue's. Just a lot of James crooning and Jordan's nimble fingers. Oh, there are little tastes: brief wiffs of something developing on the periphery of all the costume pomp and melodrama. But aside from the NOMACS creepy cool mechanizations… there's nothing that gives me that classic DT shot-in-the arm. I always try to get my 15 year old son to appreciate DT and he has grown to enjoy the classics. We have moments when we both are like: "Now THAT"S why JP is one of the best guitarist! Just listen to Myung's bas riff here--the speed and dexterity!! Have you ever heard drumming that precise?!" There was none of that for me anywhere in TA. And that, more than the cheesy plot material, disappoints the greatest.

I hope they get this silliness out of their system, have a great tour, and get back to composing music with substance and style. They already nailed the rock opera genre with Metropolis; scored symphonically with SDOIT and An Evening with…  In my humble opinion, The Astonishing didn't need to be made other than to get it out of JP's head and clear the way for better stuff.

Just one old fan's opinion.

Thanks and sorry for the long post. I don't post much (if ever) but this album bugged me enough...

Wow I can honestly say that these are my exact same feelings about this album. I'll always love DT no matter what, but this album, even though it has some great moments, it's just lackluster as a concept. Even when I sat through it with the lyrics, I was at one point wishing it was over already. That's not a great feeling. I think I'll give this a few more listens, but I don't think I'll be listening much more of this after a month or so from now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on February 28, 2016, 01:49:08 PM
The album doesn't try to be 2112 Pt. 2. It is more like a Romeo-and-Juliet-like story in a dystopian setting. I think some people may be setting themselves up to disappointment with their expectations.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on February 28, 2016, 02:26:44 PM
2:19 of The Walking Shadow is so fucking cool
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Freshmuse on February 28, 2016, 03:06:47 PM
The album doesn't try to be 2112 Pt. 2. It is more like a Romeo-and-Juliet-like story in a dystopian setting. I think some people may be setting themselves up to disappointment with their expectations.

Perhaps.  But then doesn't that beg this question: With over 20 years of progressive music created by a group who--most in this forum community would agree-- is the best assemblage of musicians in their craft; whom never felt the need to bend to trend or latch on to whatever meme-d'jour was floating through the ether; why would they chose now to slip from their maverick progressive philosophy and simply mash up a bunch of tired genres in an attempt to re-heat some left-over themes?

So yes… As fans, we are allowed expect more and we are entitled to be disappointed when we have purchased this garden variety version of a sing-through musical set in a MMORPG. It's like Les Miserables meets Camelot with wacky robot orbs flitting about just remind us that the setting is meant to be science-fiction-y. This double disk indulgence is nothing more than a musical pre-teen comic book love story.

I think (hope) that they're better than this album. It is my opinion that this entire effort is beneath them and ultimately very disappointing. This concept has been worn gossamer thin (by Hollywood and print alike!!), the characters lame and the plot derivative--if not predictable. It's not like Dream Theater never tried their hand at a full-storied concept before. While not the best "theatrical story album"Scenes from a Memory is incredible compared to Astonishing. If they wanted to go "Rock Opera", then go for it; but do it with originality and style: CREATE an entirely new World (if that's what you want) but make it special. Unique. Filled with wonderful leads that have dynamic motivations and proper emotional investment. People (or beings) that we actually care about…can relate to. Was anyone really surprised that Brother killed brother? Did anyone really care?  Anyone floored by the father versus independent daughter chemistry? And Xander? Why is he even here? Again, who cares?  YAWN….

Give us a backstory--some historical perspective as to why the world is the way it is. How it became that way and why folks in it want something different. Why was there a resistance and what was it, exactly, the folks of Ravenskill were resisting in the first place?

Like I said, They really jumped the shark!!!

I'm hopeful they get this out of their system and move forward--PROGRESSIVE--in their next endeavor. These talented guys are capable of far better.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on February 28, 2016, 03:22:38 PM
sing-through musical set in a MMORPG ... It's like Les Miserables meets Camelot with wacky robot orbs flitting about ... musical pre-teen comic book love story.
I'd be interested in what other albums fit these descriptions. :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on February 28, 2016, 03:28:17 PM
Sorry that you don't like it but to me (a fan since I&W as well) the Astonishing is a breath of fresh air. Don't get me wrong I have liked everyting they have done but but espescially on the latter MP albums it felt like they were trying too hard to please the fans or get new ones.

Now with TA it feels like they do whatever they want to do. And the music on this album is soo good, easily in the top 3 albums. First time I listened to it I did not like it as much but for each new listen it has grown.

Can't wait to see it live on tuesday and wednesday...

Yes the concept and lyrics could be better but if I want a good story I go to a movie or a book. If I want good music however I go to TA... best album in a long while.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 28, 2016, 03:41:56 PM
The Walking Shadow is so fucking cool

FTFM (but that moment is pretty damn cool in particular, amazingly tense buildup, then "as,    his,    wea - pon,    finds,   his,   vic - tim,   mort - i - fied,   to,  find  the  shadow is FAYTHE!")

The album doesn't try to be 2112 Pt. 2. It is more like a Romeo-and-Juliet-like story in a dystopian setting. I think some people may be setting themselves up to disappointment with their expectations.

Perhaps.  But then doesn't that beg this question: With over 20 years of progressive music created by a group who--most in this forum community would agree-- is the best assemblage of musicians in their craft; whom never felt the need to bend to trend or latch on to whatever meme-d'jour was floating through the ether; why would they chose now to slip from their maverick progressive philosophy and simply mash up a bunch of tired genres in an attempt to re-heat some left-over themes?

So yes… As fans, we are allowed expect more and we are entitled to be disappointed when we have purchased this garden variety version of a sing-through musical set in a MMORPG. It's like Les Miserables meets Camelot with wacky robot orbs flitting about just remind us that the setting is meant to be science-fiction-y. This double disk indulgence is nothing more than a musical pre-teen comic book love story.

I think (hope) that they're better than this album. It is my opinion that this entire effort is beneath them and ultimately very disappointing. This concept has been worn gossamer thin (by Hollywood and print alike!!), the characters lame and the plot derivative--if not predictable. It's not like Dream Theater never tried their hand at a full-storied concept before. While not the best "theatrical story album"Scenes from a Memory is incredible compared to Astonishing. If they wanted to go "Rock Opera", then go for it; but do it with originality and style: CREATE an entirely new World (if that's what you want) but make it special. Unique. Filled with wonderful leads that have dynamic motivations and proper emotional investment. People (or beings) that we actually care about…can relate to. Was anyone really surprised that Brother killed brother? Did anyone really care?  Anyone floored by the father versus independent daughter chemistry? And Xander? Why is he even here? Again, who cares?  YAWN….

Give us a backstory--some historical perspective as to why the world is the way it is. How it became that way and why folks in it want something different. Why was there a resistance and what was it, exactly, the folks of Ravenskill were resisting in the first place?

Like I said, They really jumped the shark!!!

I'm hopeful they get this out of their system and move forward--PROGRESSIVE--in their next endeavor. These talented guys are capable of far better.

No offense, but... wow. Comparisons to an MMORPG (because... reasons? I honestly can't understand this), comparing members to pre-teens (I'd like to see pre-teens write an album like TA), saying the album is beneath them (no it isn't, they made the album and are proud of it), saying it isn't relatable (there are some very real and relatable themes in this album like trust, issues of family, loyalty etc.), completely ignoring key plot points (Xander is what causes Ahrys's to betray his brother, to protect Xander, his son, pretty important) , saying they 'jumped the shark' (fair enough if you don't like it, but this is still very much Dream Theater and has enough critical and commercial success to justify the risk). As I said, fine if you don't like it, but those claims are pretty unfounded. People have complained about the execution of the lyrical style, length of the album, the pacing and some of the more bizzare plot points. These have been well supported and understandable criticisms, even if I don't neccesarily agree with them. However, stuff like "we have purchased this garden variety version of a sing-through musical set in a MMORPG" is kind of baffling and just plain weird.

On a more subjective note, I don't think Dream Theater have ever been a particularly groundbreaking band. They lead the second wave of Progressive Metal bands (where the first was Queensryche, Fates Warning, Savatage and Crimson Glory) and raised the bar in terms of technicality and complexity, cementing the name of the genre in the process. Important certainly, but didn't invent the genre.

Yes the concept and lyrics could be better but if I want a good story I go to a movie or a book. If I want good music however I go to TA... best album in a long while.

This is true. The story isn't brilliant (like with SfaM) but the execution of it musically is exceptional IMO.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 28, 2016, 05:04:58 PM
That is a very peculiar argument to make for an album whose story is the main focus. Saying "if I want a good story, I'll read a book" for a rock opera/musical, IMHO relegates the key aspect of this whole thing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on February 28, 2016, 05:29:43 PM
There are a lot of errors in your posts freshmuse. You are trying very hard to impress us with your vocabulary, so kudos for that.

Brother DOES NOT kill brother. Never hinted at.

It's explained very clearly in ABL why Nafaryus is a bad dude. Aryhs is sick of seeing his people "starve and suffer".

Put the dictionary down and think about the fact that JP is a rock guitarist and not a Hollywood-caliber screenwriter.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on February 28, 2016, 05:43:05 PM
That is a very peculiar argument to make for an album whose story is the main focus. Saying "if I want a good story, I'll read a book" for a rock opera/musical, IMHO relegates the key aspect of this whole thing.

I would disagree that the story is necessarily the main focus. The story is important, sure, but how it interacts with the music is even more important. What matters to me, personally, is the entire experience. So, as an example, I have read a lot of criticisms over how happy the end of the album is. To me though, the plausibility of the situation isn't the point. What makes it a great ending isn't the storytelling of it all, but rather that when LaBrie sings, "Our lives will be astonishing again!", the music makes me believe him.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pcs90 on February 28, 2016, 05:52:11 PM
You can enjoy the music on the album without caring about the story.
In my opinion understanding the story helps a lot, and though there are certainly loopholes and ideas that could have been expanded on, there is plenty of information between the website descriptions and the lyrics themselves to follow.
Sometimes I'll just listen to a few songs...of course it won't be as powerful as the full experience, but they're still enjoyable on their own.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 28, 2016, 07:09:29 PM
I'm excited for what they have planned, or what jp wants to do to further explore the astonishing realm.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Freshmuse on February 28, 2016, 07:18:01 PM


"...No offense, but... wow. Comparisons to an MMORPG (because... reasons? I honestly can't understand this), comparing members to pre-teens (I'd like to see pre-teens write an album like TA), saying the album is beneath them (no it isn't, they made the album and are proud of it), saying it isn't relatable (there are some very real and relatable themes in this album like trust, issues of family, loyalty etc.), completely ignoring key plot points (Xander is what causes Ahrys's to betray his brother, to protect Xander, his son, pretty important) , saying they 'jumped the shark' (fair enough if you don't like it, but this is still very much Dream Theater and has enough critical and commercial success to justify the risk). As I said, fine if you don't like it, but those claims are pretty unfounded. People have complained about the execution of the lyrical style, length of the album, the pacing and some of the more bizzare plot points. These have been well supported and understandable criticisms, even if I don't neccesarily agree with them. However, stuff like "we have purchased this garden variety version of a sing-through musical set in a MMORPG" is kind of baffling and just plain weird."



First, you misunderstood my "pre-teen" comment. I never compared the members of the band to actual pre-teens. Hell, they are my age and I respect each of them for all that they have contributed. My argument was that it seems that their target audience for this project were pre-teens. I likened the content of TA to something I could pluck off the shelf in the young adult section of any book store. And to be honest, most of that tripe is written by much older authors. You have to admit that even the cartoonish portraits of the main characters in TA on the website are a bit much: They all look like something from an English fantasy graphic novel… quite cheesy and again, in my opinion, a bit adolescent.  Which segue's into my MMORPG comment. ALL the characters, their profiles, their motis operandi… all read like character studies from any one of the thousands of MMORPG platforms out there. Even the goofy map and costumes have an ethereal Camelot-y /Wizard and Warlock feel. Sorry if I confused the issue, but in my opinion--the whole concept is campy. At best. Much like the MMORPG realms that are created by today's version of D&D geekdom.

It is a sing-through musical, with acts and scene headings and everything. By definition, a play.  The entire tale is communicated through lyrical narrative and dialogue. That's fine for those that like that. We are all entitled to our opinions. That's the beauty of forums. And I do wish the music was better… as I said there are moments of musical greatness and I would like to enjoy the music by itself. The problem is that, for me at least, the moments with good music--those stand alone pieces--are few and far between while the rest is bogged down with extraneous and sluggish characters and sung though dialogue.

Hey, we all have our opinion and I just wanted to put another perspective out there. There's so much love out there for this album and I just don't feel it myself. Not even close.

I love DT. There's not much in their extensive catalogue that I haven't been able to find something about which to enjoy. This is the first time I've been discouraged and disappointed in something they've developed. I suppose because of the grand scale and the build up to the albums roll out... the let down for me was even greater.

Again, just one old fan's opinion. I'll simply pass on this album and look forward to the next; while hoping this doesn't spawn a sequel (ala MindCrime 2) Some things shouldn't be done. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.


Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on February 28, 2016, 10:06:49 PM
Honestly if I were forced to bring only 1 DT album with me to listen to for the rest of my life, it'd be The Astonishing. I don't think I've listened to a DT song from another album since it came out.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on February 28, 2016, 11:15:55 PM
That is a very peculiar argument to make for an album whose story is the main focus. Saying "if I want a good story, I'll read a book" for a rock opera/musical, IMHO relegates the key aspect of this whole thing.

The most important aspect of a Rock Opera or a Musica or a proper Opera is to me at least the music.
I can't really think of one Rock Opera,  musical or Opera where I have thought "wow, what a story" but I can think of quite a few where I have thought "wow, fantastic music".

SFAM is a fantastic piece of music, one of my other favorite DT albums but the story is not that great to me. How it is told through the music makes it great though. Same with the Astonishing. The story has made them focus on feelings and themes... love the recurring themes throughout the albums.

I sure hope that even if the next album is not a concept album or a rock opera that they keep the way of composing that they did here. I don't want them to go back to jamming together to see what happens.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on February 28, 2016, 11:48:47 PM
2:04 of Heaven's Cove is really cool. Makes me think of someone happily walking through a forest, interchanged with a view of a monster stalking close, behind trees and bushes...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RaasMah on February 29, 2016, 01:45:56 AM
That is a very peculiar argument to make for an album whose story is the main focus. Saying "if I want a good story, I'll read a book" for a rock opera/musical, IMHO relegates the key aspect of this whole thing.

While Im on the side that find the story very much OK, and care far more about the music itself, I agree with you. The story matters in a rock opera, hell it mattered to DT a lot. So answering people who critisize the story with that quote is indeed foolish in my opinion.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 29, 2016, 01:55:02 AM
That is a very peculiar argument to make for an album whose story is the main focus. Saying "if I want a good story, I'll read a book" for a rock opera/musical, IMHO relegates the key aspect of this whole thing.

I would disagree that the story is necessarily the main focus. The story is important, sure, but how it interacts with the music is even more important. What matters to me, personally, is the entire experience. So, as an example, I have read a lot of criticisms over how happy the end of the album is. To me though, the plausibility of the situation isn't the point. What makes it a great ending isn't the storytelling of it all, but rather that when LaBrie sings, "Our lives will be astonishing again!", the music makes me believe him.

Yep. Rent, for example, is not really an amazing story but it is an amazing musical. So is Cats. And even Jesus Christ, Superstar. Although of course there are great musicals that are amazing both in story and music, Les Miserables and Miss Saigon, for example, but then that is why they are considered all-time greats.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 29, 2016, 02:35:00 AM
I think the story serves as a vehicle for the music, and as such is fine, for me at least. I mean, I could probably pick holes in it if I really wanted to, but I think it does the job it's meant to do. It's got family drama, betrayal, social inequality, love stuff, flying robots - enough elements to give the songs meaning and push the whole thing along.

I don't think there's enough there to create a novel out of, to be honest, but I think it's fine as a backdrop to the album. I'll not be turning to DT for my next fantasy novel or anything, but that's fine..

The music is the most important thing to me - the story plays a supporting role (yes, the Oscars were on TV this morning..  :lol). It's enough for me to have a general understanding the major plot points as I'm listening through. Still loving it..  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on February 29, 2016, 11:54:00 AM
It's got family drama, betrayal, social inequality, love stuff, flying robots

This seems a pitch for an Hollywood blockbuster movie  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 29, 2016, 12:27:13 PM
It's got family drama, betrayal, social inequality, love stuff, flying robots

This seems a pitch for an Hollywood blockbuster movie  ;D

Maybe it will get picked up for Sharknado 9. If it does, I want a credit!!  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 29, 2016, 01:53:09 PM
I wonder if JP has a lot more story to be told. Like, the album is the basics of the story, it does its job of portraying the plot and significant ideas. Yet, he has more of the story he wants to release in another form that an album just can't portray.

Take the game being released, that'll likely explore more of the map areas. Give you more of a glimpse into the GNE.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on February 29, 2016, 01:57:06 PM
I wonder if JP has a lot more story to be told. Like, the album is the basics of the story, it does its job of portraying the plot and significant ideas. Yet, he has more of the story he wants to release in another form that an album just can't portray.

Take the game being released, that'll likely explore more of the map areas. Give you more of a glimpse into the GNE.

He did mention having more of the story that he would perhaps release in a novelization. This was the quote from the AMA that he did.

"They are an artificial intelligence of sorts who automate a soulless cacophony. On the album the story is focused more on the human characters and their struggles, however the NOMAC story will be explored further in future novelization."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 29, 2016, 01:59:13 PM
It's the first in a series of 9 double albums to come.

it's the new Star Wars.

It'll be a film trilogy , prequel trilogy and sequel trilogy

And Netflix series.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thematt202 on February 29, 2016, 02:37:22 PM
It's the first in a series of 9 double albums to come.

it's the new Star Wars.

It'll be a film trilogy , prequel trilogy and sequel trilogy

And Netflix series.

I'm sold!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 29, 2016, 03:32:19 PM
Prequel:

Bug's Adventures.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on February 29, 2016, 03:33:11 PM
Prequel:

Bug's Adventures.

 :lol

Nice!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bacong on February 29, 2016, 04:05:44 PM
the title track makes me smile like an idiot, idc
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RaasMah on February 29, 2016, 04:14:33 PM
I wonder if JP has a lot more story to be told. Like, the album is the basics of the story, it does its job of portraying the plot and significant ideas. Yet, he has more of the story he wants to release in another form that an album just can't portray.

Take the game being released, that'll likely explore more of the map areas. Give you more of a glimpse into the GNE.

He did mention having more of the story that he would perhaps release in a novelization. This was the quote from the AMA that he did.

"They are an artificial intelligence of sorts who automate a soulless cacophony. On the album the story is focused more on the human characters and their struggles, however the NOMAC story will be explored further in future novelization."

The AMA was before the explained tracks page on the site right? Im pretty sure thats what JP meant in future novelization.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on February 29, 2016, 04:18:04 PM
Short song descriptions on a website is not a "novelization," so I doubt that is what he meant. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 29, 2016, 04:23:27 PM
Prequel:

A Bug's Life.

FTFY
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on February 29, 2016, 04:38:39 PM
the title track makes me smile like an idiot, idc

Me too, and the chills from "Music REIGNS FOREVERMORE!", whoa! All the reprises are beautiful and perfectly placed (which they'd better be, considering that it's the entire song). One of the best closers I can think of, really. Although, maybe it won't make as much sense being played outside of the album considering it does have the feeling of a finale to epic. If you listen to it on its own, I'd imagine thinking "wait where is the other 2:05 hours?".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on February 29, 2016, 04:49:21 PM
Prequel:

Bug's Adventures.


A Bug's Life.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on February 29, 2016, 05:03:39 PM
Look two posts up, Kotow.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 29, 2016, 07:46:40 PM
I'm at a billiards and bar. They have an online Jukebox. Someone played ACOS. then I played The Path That divides. Cool they have a lot of the Astonishing songs on there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on February 29, 2016, 08:04:57 PM
Prequel:

A Bug's Life.

FTFY
:tup :tup :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on February 29, 2016, 09:29:23 PM
I'm at a billiards and bar. They have an online Jukebox. Someone played ACOS. then I played The Path That divides. Cool they have a lot of the Astonishing songs on there.
I would play only 5 DT songs: ACOS, 6DOIT, 8VM, ITPOE and IT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 29, 2016, 09:37:07 PM
I'm at a billiards and bar. They have an online Jukebox. Someone played ACOS. then I played The Path That divides. Cool they have a lot of the Astonishing songs on there.
I would play only 5 DT songs: ACOS, 6DOIT, 8VM, ITPOE and IT.

Unfortunately both SDOIT and ITPOE are in multiple tracks so wouldn't count as one, unless you choose the Score version of SDOIT, which I recall people have done before for these types of jukeboxes. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on February 29, 2016, 09:49:50 PM
This guy is working on covering the entire album and has been posting both album and drums only covers of the songs. He's amazing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a4K4xSbgYg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a4K4xSbgYg)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on February 29, 2016, 09:55:14 PM
This guy is working on covering the entire album and has been posting both album and drums only covers of the songs. He's amazing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a4K4xSbgYg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a4K4xSbgYg)

Yep, Mathias is good. Loved his Dystopian Overture cover.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on February 29, 2016, 10:08:26 PM
I've been following his channel for quite awhile now and he's always amazing. His drums sound amazing and he captures the performance really well.

Also, at the end of Begin Again during that awesome outro, is there any guitar part there?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on March 01, 2016, 05:39:14 AM
The Astonishing part II: Revenge of the NoMacs! (or Jordan Rudess's day off in the studio) .  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 01, 2016, 07:55:24 AM


"...No offense, but... wow. Comparisons to an MMORPG (because... reasons? I honestly can't understand this), comparing members to pre-teens (I'd like to see pre-teens write an album like TA), saying the album is beneath them (no it isn't, they made the album and are proud of it), saying it isn't relatable (there are some very real and relatable themes in this album like trust, issues of family, loyalty etc.), completely ignoring key plot points (Xander is what causes Ahrys's to betray his brother, to protect Xander, his son, pretty important) , saying they 'jumped the shark' (fair enough if you don't like it, but this is still very much Dream Theater and has enough critical and commercial success to justify the risk). As I said, fine if you don't like it, but those claims are pretty unfounded. People have complained about the execution of the lyrical style, length of the album, the pacing and some of the more bizzare plot points. These have been well supported and understandable criticisms, even if I don't neccesarily agree with them. However, stuff like "we have purchased this garden variety version of a sing-through musical set in a MMORPG" is kind of baffling and just plain weird."



First, you misunderstood my "pre-teen" comment. I never compared the members of the band to actual pre-teens. Hell, they are my age and I respect each of them for all that they have contributed. My argument was that it seems that their target audience for this project were pre-teens. I likened the content of TA to something I could pluck off the shelf in the young adult section of any book store. And to be honest, most of that tripe is written by much older authors. You have to admit that even the cartoonish portraits of the main characters in TA on the website are a bit much: They all look like something from an English fantasy graphic novel… quite cheesy and again, in my opinion, a bit adolescent.  Which segue's into my MMORPG comment. ALL the characters, their profiles, their motis operandi… all read like character studies from any one of the thousands of MMORPG platforms out there. Even the goofy map and costumes have an ethereal Camelot-y /Wizard and Warlock feel. Sorry if I confused the issue, but in my opinion--the whole concept is campy. At best. Much like the MMORPG realms that are created by today's version of D&D geekdom.

It is a sing-through musical, with acts and scene headings and everything. By definition, a play.  The entire tale is communicated through lyrical narrative and dialogue. That's fine for those that like that. We are all entitled to our opinions. That's the beauty of forums. And I do wish the music was better… as I said there are moments of musical greatness and I would like to enjoy the music by itself. The problem is that, for me at least, the moments with good music--those stand alone pieces--are few and far between while the rest is bogged down with extraneous and sluggish characters and sung though dialogue.

Hey, we all have our opinion and I just wanted to put another perspective out there. There's so much love out there for this album and I just don't feel it myself. Not even close.

I love DT. There's not much in their extensive catalogue that I haven't been able to find something about which to enjoy. This is the first time I've been discouraged and disappointed in something they've developed. I suppose because of the grand scale and the build up to the albums roll out... the let down for me was even greater.

Again, just one old fan's opinion. I'll simply pass on this album and look forward to the next; while hoping this doesn't spawn a sequel (ala MindCrime 2) Some things shouldn't be done. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Is it fair to say that your opinion of the album is colored by your dislike of plays/theater and the genres of sci-fi/fantasy?  Not trying to put words in your mouth, just looking for clarification.

And hey, opinions are opinions, and you are certainly entitled to yours.  No worries.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on March 01, 2016, 08:18:37 AM
During the Q&A on sunday, we got clarification that the stuff thats been written on the emails, website and tourbook is all a guy (Ryan something). He's the one that came up with a lot of the world outside of whats within the concept and lyrics itself...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 01, 2016, 08:21:55 AM
Random comment, I find the switch to the narrator at the end of Three Days, followed by the 1920's music, really unfortunate given how awesome the section right before it is. That whole "They're left to weigh the gravity of his threatening remarks" and "Will Gabriel get out of this alive? This remains the question on their minds"  really yanks me out of it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 01, 2016, 08:26:10 AM
Really?  Why is that? 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 01, 2016, 08:34:31 AM
DT have done that once before, in The Great Debate, where they switched to "addressing the reader" directly. ("Pay attention to the questions we have raised")
There's probably a fancy literature term for it, but it's essentially the fact that in my mind, I'm going from watching characters interact, to some guy telling me about what's happening.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 01, 2016, 08:38:03 AM
Oh, okay.  Personally, I don't find that change in POV to be jarring.  But I see what you mean.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on March 01, 2016, 08:52:25 AM
Unfortunately both SDOIT and ITPOE are in multiple tracks so wouldn't count as one, unless you choose the Score version of SDOIT, which I recall people have done before for these types of jukeboxes. :lol

That must clear the room pretty fast! haha
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 01, 2016, 08:55:14 AM
Unfortunately both SDOIT and ITPOE are in multiple tracks so wouldn't count as one, unless you choose the Score version of SDOIT, which I recall people have done before for these types of jukeboxes. :lol

That must clear the room pretty fast! haha

It would be a great test to see who has good music taste though. :biggrin:

If you put on DT and she stays, we are a match.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on March 01, 2016, 08:56:25 AM
DT have done that once before, in The Great Debate, where they switched to "addressing the reader" directly. ("Pay attention to the questions we have raised")
There's probably a fancy literature term for it, but it's essentially the fact that in my mind, I'm going from watching characters interact, to some guy telling me about what's happening.
To some extent, I find that with the use of a narrator throughout. That particular moment doesn't actually bother me at all, I find it really enjoyable, but there are some others where I definitely felt like there was no need for it to be a narrator and the key points could easily have been done as dialogue between characters.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 01, 2016, 11:41:42 AM
I am really not all familiar with musicals and operas, but is that something that is done outside of plays? In plays those "off speaker" statements are more meant for the director to direct the acting in a certain way ("X and Y stay behind, pensive"), but it strikes me as uncommon outside of that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 01, 2016, 11:54:46 AM
It can be, yes.  And not sure whether you have ever seen TSO, but in some of their shows, which are often presented in "rock opera" format, they follow that format as well where a narrator jumps in to give exposition.  But I guess one thing that makes this different is that the parts of the different characters and narrator are all being performed by the same person singing the lines.  James is just juggling the different roles/perspectives rather than different actors playing those parts.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 01, 2016, 12:40:15 PM
DT have done that once before, in The Great Debate, where they switched to "addressing the reader" directly. ("Pay attention to the questions we have raised")
There's probably a fancy literature term for it, but it's essentially the fact that in my mind, I'm going from watching characters interact, to some guy telling me about what's happening.

Authorial Intrusion
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 01, 2016, 12:47:49 PM
Good lord, that is a fancy literary term.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 01, 2016, 12:51:49 PM
 :lol 

There's a word for everything. For example, the word for me actually knowing that is probably ostentatious.   :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on March 01, 2016, 01:02:43 PM
I am really not all familiar with musicals and operas, but is that something that is done outside of plays? In plays those "off speaker" statements are more meant for the director to direct the acting in a certain way ("X and Y stay behind, pensive"), but it strikes me as uncommon outside of that.
That's a bit different I think, what DT have done in TA is use an up-front ("on stage") narrator as part of the thing itself. Which definitely happens in musicals - a great example of this is in Evita (where the narrator was played by Antonio Banderas in the movie version). I wouldn't say it's super common, but it's not entirely rare either.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 01, 2016, 01:12:08 PM
Okay, but Antonio Banderas could narrate pretty much anything and make it amazing, so I'm not sure your example helps make the point.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 01, 2016, 02:17:57 PM
For people who have seen the live performance, do the videos running in the background help making that distinction?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 01, 2016, 03:03:33 PM
For people who have seen the live performance, do the videos running in the background help making that distinction?

Sort of. Often a character fills the screen when they are singing but in other instances like ANB, Three Days or Moment of Betrayal, it's merely just to augment what DT are playing with visuals that suit the mood.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on March 01, 2016, 03:03:46 PM
For people who have seen the live performance, do the videos running in the background help making that distinction?
Nah not remotely. They mainly just add to the tone of what's going on, but you wouldn't be able to follow the story at all from the live show alone if you didn't know it a bit already.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 01, 2016, 08:39:22 PM
During the Q&A on sunday, we got clarification that the stuff thats been written on the emails, website and tourbook is all a guy (Ryan something). He's the one that came up with a lot of the world outside of whats within the concept and lyrics itself...

Makes sense now. I didn't understand why, after reading those e-mails (in a more formal style, with lots of fancy words), the lyrics were in a simpler style.

When you mean "came up with a lot of the world": do you mean that the NOMACs, or some places' names, or the fact that in 2028 something happened, are stuff from his imagination (and not John's)???
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on March 01, 2016, 11:34:02 PM
2028 was his (it was a question actually)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 02, 2016, 11:09:44 AM
2028 was his (it was a question actually)

His as in John's? Or Ryan's?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on March 02, 2016, 11:12:17 AM
Ryans. The question was regarding all the seeming "links" to old stuff (particularly 1928/2028/metropolis), and JP basically answered "I wish I was that smart - I'd not even thought off all the things you mentioned now. all of that was ryan"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 02, 2016, 11:13:13 AM
The riff starting at about 2:52 of My Last Farewell is a gem I long overlooked.  I cannot place what it reminds me of, but I like it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on March 02, 2016, 11:52:50 AM
Usually with a new DT album I look forward to 2-3 great songs, 3-4 pretty good, and maybe 1 I don't like. TA has like 20 great songs, about 5 good to very good, and a couple I don't care for. That's a great ratio.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 02, 2016, 11:54:33 AM
Usually with a new DT album I look forward to 2-3 great songs, 3-4 pretty good, and maybe 1 I don't like. TA has like 20 great songs, about 5 good to very good, and a couple I don't care for. That's a great ratio.

That's about where I am too.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 02, 2016, 12:02:47 PM
Ryans. The question was regarding all the seeming "links" to old stuff (particularly 1928/2028/metropolis), and JP basically answered "I wish I was that smart - I'd not even thought off all the things you mentioned now. all of that was ryan"

Oh, OK, thanks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on March 02, 2016, 03:23:43 PM
Usually with a new DT album I look forward to 2-3 great songs, 3-4 pretty good, and maybe 1 I don't like. TA has like 20 great songs, about 5 good to very good, and a couple I don't care for. That's a great ratio.

That's about where I am too.
Identical situation in my case as well.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wolven74 on March 02, 2016, 04:47:43 PM
So maybe this has been answered in this thread already, but I can't be bothered to search for it.  :yarr

At the end of SitS there's a lyric that says: They only know the Noise Machines, so I will treat them to sonic ecstasy. This is immediately followed by a bit of dissonant wankery, then Gabe sees Faythe over a mellow bit. Which part is supposed to be the "sonic ecstasy"?

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 02, 2016, 04:49:08 PM
Usually with a new DT album I look forward to 2-3 great songs, 3-4 pretty good, and maybe 1 I don't like. TA has like 20 great songs, about 5 good to very good, and a couple I don't care for. That's a great ratio.

That's about where I am too.

I find that I start an "Act" and just end up listening to the whole thing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 02, 2016, 05:07:47 PM
So maybe this has been answered in this thread already, but I can't be bothered to search for it.  :yarr

At the end of SitS there's a lyric that says: They only know the Noise Machines, so I will treat them to sonic ecstasy. This is immediately followed by a bit of dissonant wankery, then Gabe sees Faythe over a mellow bit. Which part is supposed to be the "sonic ecstasy"?

When Your Time Has Come
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 02, 2016, 06:40:22 PM
Yeah, to me the dissonant wankery represents the moment Gabriel is distracted as soon as he sees Faythe. The 'sonic ecstasy' would be the song he plays in front of the crowd.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Nearmyth on March 02, 2016, 07:47:09 PM
To me the dissonant wankery represents the tension between the crowd and the GNEA peeps when Gabriel agrees to give into the emperor's desires to hear him play, and as the emperor waits for Gabriel to play his song. The piano line that follows is Gabriel being distracted as he sees Faythe, and yes WYTHC is the "sonic ecstacy."

Savior In The Square is actually one of my favorite tracks because of howe cinematic it is. You can watch the scene take place as you listen to the song, like a movie.  It is pretty spectacular.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on March 02, 2016, 08:15:58 PM
To me, the dissonant wankery represent the moment where JP and JR said "hey that sounds cool, let's keep it"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on March 02, 2016, 11:14:59 PM
To me, the dissonant wankery represent the moment where JP and JR said "hey that sounds cool, let's keep it"
That's probably right. But at least it makes sense and has parallels with the story!  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Iceyice on March 02, 2016, 11:23:15 PM
Hey, i'm a new member. Hi all.
I read the first 7 pages of this thread, so if i repeat something, sorry.
That rapping part in 'TPTD's' is mindblowing! That and Three days are my early favorites.

I wanted to also comment on the first vid from this. I heard that it was budget, or lack there of as to why the vid to TGOM was so weak.
Even if true, arent you tired of performance videos?
And are you Astonished that DT make terrible video after terrible video? Its their one weakness. Even the vid for 'Lie' was bad, in that the song was edited for MTV, and such.
That said, do you expect other videos to be at least animated, ala 'Forsaken?' Or will they not offer up even one vid that is a story part from TA?

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 03, 2016, 01:47:42 AM
I think the lack of effort in making quality music videos for Dream Theater is that, ultimately, it won't make much financial sense. It really won't bring in much more revenue for the band because they are in a niche market anyway.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 03, 2016, 01:58:15 AM
I agree that bigger budget music videos aren't really worth it for a band like DT. It's the music that brings people in, and music videos are just something to watch while listening to the song. In that regard, I think the music video for TGOM is perfectly fine, even if it leaves something to be desired. Due to the internet, music videos don't have the importance that they did in the past.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on March 03, 2016, 04:36:29 AM
The riff starting at about 2:52 of My Last Farewell is a gem I long overlooked.  I cannot place what it reminds me of, but I like it.

I agree! It sounds like something taken straight out of Home :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 03, 2016, 08:28:47 AM
That rapping part in 'TPTD'

I have no idea what you are referring to.


The riff starting at about 2:52 of My Last Farewell is a gem I long overlooked.  I cannot place what it reminds me of, but I like it.

I agree! It sounds like something taken straight out of Home :metal
No, that isn't what I was thinking.  I was thinking something outside of DT.  Not a specific song, but a general sound.  Maybe like something from Lacuna Coil or Alter Bridge?  I'm just not placing it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on March 03, 2016, 08:32:35 AM
No, that isn't what I was thinking.  I was thinking something outside of DT.  Not a specific song, but a general sound.  Maybe like something from Lacuna Coil or Alter Bridge?  I'm just not placing it.

I always thought that riff reminded me a little of Come to Life by Alter Bridge.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 03, 2016, 09:15:16 AM
That rapping part in 'TPTD'

I have no idea what you are referring to.

It's the "I knew the day had come, and you could be tempted." bit. Basically a rap battle between Arhys and Daryus.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 03, 2016, 09:24:27 AM
Doesn't a "rap battle" actually have to have...you know...rapping?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on March 03, 2016, 09:26:59 AM
I knew immediately what he was talking about when he said rap section  :lol

It's definitely not a rap though because it doesn't have rhymes or anything, it's just said really fast.... Kinda like when people refer to that part in This Dying Soul as a rap
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on March 03, 2016, 09:36:11 AM


It's definitely not a rap though because it doesn't have rhymes or anything

I knew the day would COME
And you would be TEMPTED
To give up the chosen ONE
and finally END THIS
Do anything for your SON
A terminal Weakness
But now you're as good as DONE

I didn't have a CHOICE
And I was defENSELESS
I didn't believe his VOICE
The fighting was SENSELESS
But now I can see the truth
I've got to my SENSES
I shouldn't have trusted you

Those look pretty rhyme-ey to me. Some of the first parts are more assonances or partial rhymes, but most raps have those anyway
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rab7 on March 03, 2016, 09:38:12 AM
In other news, my 5 year old has figured out his favorite songs, and we listen to it everytime we get in the car:

"The Bad guy song" (Three Days)

"The song where the guy grabs the boy"

"The creepy song where the girl gets stabbed"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 03, 2016, 09:40:36 AM
Just discovered that the big NOMAC in https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishing (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishing) produces music as your mouse pointer is on it. There are various different bits of music, not just one.

Whatsmore, now a third eye has red light going on and off. No eye produces anything when clicked, though. That said, the music stops whenever your pointer is on the eyes.

PS: I hope these NOMAC outtakes come as bonus tracks on the album's re-mastered edition in 2028 :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 03, 2016, 09:50:50 AM


It's definitely not a rap though because it doesn't have rhymes or anything

I knew the day would COME
And you would be TEMPTED
To give up the chosen ONE
and finally END THIS
Do anything for your SON
A terminal Weakness
But now you're as good as DONE

I didn't have a CHOICE
And I was defENSELESS
I didn't believe his VOICE
The fighting was SENSELESS
But now I can see the truth
I've got to my SENSES
I shouldn't have trusted you

Those look pretty rhyme-ey to me. Some of the first parts are more assonances or partial rhymes, but most raps have those anyway.

Yeah I honestly can't see how that couldn't a rap. It has a repeated rhythm, is relatively monotone melodically and emphasises the rhymes (and slant rhymes, which are common in rapping). Saying that it couldn't be a rap is like saying the similar quickly-sung section in TDS couldn't be one (or the one in HTF).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: krands85 on March 03, 2016, 09:51:48 AM
The riff starting at about 2:52 of My Last Farewell is a gem I long overlooked.  I cannot place what it reminds me of, but I like it.

I agree! It sounds like something taken straight out of Home :metal
No, that isn't what I was thinking.  I was thinking something outside of DT.  Not a specific song, but a general sound.  Maybe like something from Lacuna Coil or Alter Bridge?  I'm just not placing it.
I was listening to the album while I was out earlier and when that riff started I thought to myself "I bet that's the riff someone mentioned on DTF earlier today", even though I couldn't remember which song had been mentioned in the post  ;D So yeah, it reminds me of something too actually but I don't know what.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 03, 2016, 09:51:59 AM
It has the rhythmic properties of rapping, but I don't consider any pitched vocals to be rapping. Rapping is rhythmic talking as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 03, 2016, 09:55:55 AM
It has the rhythmic properties of rapping, but I don't consider any pitched vocals to be rapping. Rapping is rhythmic talking as far as I'm concerned.

A lot of rapping is pitched. it's just relatively monotone so it has the sound of talking.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 03, 2016, 09:59:07 AM
We'll have to agree to disagree, because the lack of pitch to me is the single defining characteristic of rap vs actual singing. Fast singing with limited vocal range is not rap imo. Far too vaguely defined.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on March 03, 2016, 10:04:18 AM
So in the poll last month, I voted for Act 1 as my clear favorite but I am now no longer sure. They are both just so strong.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Luoto on March 03, 2016, 10:32:35 AM
Yeah I honestly can't see how that couldn't a rap. It has a repeated rhythm, is relatively monotone melodically and emphasises the rhymes (and slant rhymes, which are common in rapping). Saying that it couldn't be a rap is like saying the similar quickly-sung section in TDS couldn't be one (or the one in HTF).

The melody is the same as the guitar riff behind it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 03, 2016, 10:59:37 AM
Yeah I honestly can't see how that couldn't a rap. It has a repeated rhythm, is relatively monotone melodically and emphasises the rhymes (and slant rhymes, which are common in rapping). Saying that it couldn't be a rap is like saying the similar quickly-sung section in TDS couldn't be one (or the one in HTF).

The melody is the same as the guitar riff behind it.

Same with This Dying Soul, though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 03, 2016, 11:05:26 AM
It has the rhythmic properties of rapping, but I don't consider any pitched vocals to be rapping. Rapping is rhythmic talking as far as I'm concerned.
So, do you listen to a lot of rap?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on March 03, 2016, 11:08:40 AM
In other news, my 5 year old has figured out his favorite songs, and we listen to it everytime we get in the car:

"The Bad guy song" (Three Days)

"The song where the guy grabs the boy"

"The creepy song where the girl gets stabbed"
This is fantastic. The bad guy song.  :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on March 03, 2016, 12:51:42 PM
Let's make this simple.

If I say, "Oh man, I love the rap section in Path That Divides," do you know exactly what section I'm talking about?  Yes, you do, whether you want to be pedantic about it or not.

(Not knocking pedantry here. ;) )
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 03, 2016, 01:02:21 PM
I'm not sure what you're talking about. People here at DTF are never pedantic.  
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 03, 2016, 01:17:36 PM
I actually legitimately did not know what section he was talking about.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 03, 2016, 01:21:15 PM
I actually legitimately did not know what section he was talking about.

We believe you. I was just being a wiseass for a change.   :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on March 03, 2016, 01:36:34 PM
It's not rap. It's really cool, and I dig it like crazy, but it's not rap.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 03, 2016, 02:05:10 PM
It's not rap. It's really cool, and I dig it like crazy, but it's not rap.
It doesn't quite feel like rap, but I knew what he was talking about.  And if I'm being objective about it, it is hard to distinguish why it can't be considered rap.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on March 03, 2016, 05:19:09 PM
I actually legitimately did not know what section he was talking about.
Ok, but in fairness, most people probably did. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on March 03, 2016, 05:57:05 PM
Just discovered that the big NOMAC in https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishing (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishing) produces music as your mouse pointer is on it. There are various different bits of music, not just one.

Whatsmore, now a third eye has red light going on and off. No eye produces anything when clicked, though. That said, the music stops whenever your pointer is on the eyes.

PS: I hope these NOMAC outtakes come as bonus tracks on the album's re-mastered edition in 2028 :P

I ripped them and made them a download a while ago.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 03, 2016, 06:14:26 PM
Just discovered that the big NOMAC in https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishing (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishing) produces music as your mouse pointer is on it. There are various different bits of music, not just one.

Whatsmore, now a third eye has red light going on and off. No eye produces anything when clicked, though. That said, the music stops whenever your pointer is on the eyes.

PS: I hope these NOMAC outtakes come as bonus tracks on the album's re-mastered edition in 2028 :P

I ripped them and made them a download a while ago.

Oh cool! Do you know how many different bits of music there are? From a quick listening, I figured there must be at least 10.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 03, 2016, 07:15:36 PM
It has the rhythmic properties of rapping, but I don't consider any pitched vocals to be rapping. Rapping is rhythmic talking as far as I'm concerned.
So, do you listen to a lot of rap?

I think you know the answer to that. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on March 04, 2016, 01:07:46 AM
It's not a rap. It doesn't have any downward inflections. It's monotonous (not a criticism, it must be said).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 04, 2016, 03:32:28 AM
LOLd when I read Mangini's post:

"Thank you Oslo and Stockholm for all the smiles I saw from the stage. I noticed so many extra nice smiles that I missed the edge of a high up tube drum the by the Planck Length on one drum fill. Don't tell anyone or a critic will dedicate a YouTube page to such a horrendous playing error ; )"

Someone should have captured that. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Cyclopssss on March 04, 2016, 04:52:11 AM
I thought that section was just very fast and staccato singing. He pulls it off live pretty impressively, imo.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 04, 2016, 05:44:17 AM
I can't believe we went through this whole discussion about James rapping without someone posting this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BKmnlvO47E
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on March 04, 2016, 06:07:13 AM
So what songs from TA do you think would be awesome as standalone songs interspersed within a regular live show?

The Gift of Music, A Savior in the Square, Brother, Can You Hear Me?, A Life Left Behind, Ravenskill, A Tempting Offer, A New Beginning, Moment of Betrayal, The Path That Divides/The Walking Shadow, and Our New World, I think, would all be great candidates.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Iceyice on March 04, 2016, 11:21:58 AM
I can't believe we went through this whole discussion about James rapping without someone posting this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BKmnlvO47E

Never heard this! Hilarious.
Portnoy should tell his wife that!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on March 04, 2016, 01:21:05 PM
I actually legitimately did not know what section he was talking about.
Yes, sorry, wasn't calling you out specifically -- just making the point that calling that section of Path That Divides a "rap" would be generally understandable to most people as an appropriate label without having to get into definitions of what rap is or isn't according to DT fans.

And those who say it isn't a rap... we are at an impasse.  It's a rap!  It's a rap.

(It's a rap.)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: 1neeto on March 04, 2016, 02:08:47 PM
I knew immediately what he was talking about when he said rap section  :lol

It's definitely not a rap though because it doesn't have rhymes or anything, it's just said really fast.... Kinda like when people refer to that part in This Dying Soul as a rap
There's only one rap song in that album. And it's pretty bad.  :laugh:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on March 04, 2016, 05:47:34 PM
Just discovered that the big NOMAC in https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishing (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishing) produces music as your mouse pointer is on it. There are various different bits of music, not just one.

Whatsmore, now a third eye has red light going on and off. No eye produces anything when clicked, though. That said, the music stops whenever your pointer is on the eyes.

PS: I hope these NOMAC outtakes come as bonus tracks on the album's re-mastered edition in 2028 :P

I ripped them and made them a download a while ago.

Oh cool! Do you know how many different bits of music there are? From a quick listening, I figured there must be at least 10.

10 exactly.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on March 04, 2016, 10:12:13 PM
There's only one rap song in that album. And it's pretty bad.  :laugh:
Honor Thy Father?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 04, 2016, 10:17:22 PM
I guess the bit like at 3:42 of TDS might count too. HTF is the first to come to mind though.. But it's not bad.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RaasMah on March 05, 2016, 01:49:14 AM
Ehm, I know people try to ignore the existence of this song, but Prophets of Wars has rap doesnt it?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chaossystem on March 05, 2016, 02:24:41 AM
What's with all this obsession about DT doing rap?

Anyway...I would have to to say they closest they ever came was with Take the Time, Lie, and Just Let Me Breathe.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 05, 2016, 06:12:16 AM
What's with all this obsession about DR doing rap?
Who is DR?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on March 05, 2016, 06:41:37 AM
What's with all this obsession about DR doing rap?
Who is DR?

DJames Raprie from the band Dream Rapper?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on March 05, 2016, 06:58:53 AM
Just finished to hear once again the album.... I still get shivers at the end of Astonishing. Can't wait to see it all live, 2 exact weeks and it will be my turn!!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 05, 2016, 08:00:08 AM
What's with all this obsession about DR doing rap?
Who is DR?

Django Reinhardt?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 05, 2016, 10:20:11 AM
What's with all this obsession about DR doing rap?
Who is DR?

Django Reinhardt?
Pretty sure he didn't do very much rapping.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 05, 2016, 10:28:58 AM
What's with all this obsession about DR doing rap?
Who is DR?

Django Reinhardt?
Pretty sure he didn't do very much rapping.

Not that we know of.   :justjen
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 05, 2016, 11:04:52 AM
What's with all this obsession about DR doing rap?
Who is DR?

Django Reinhardt?

No, Derek Roddy. He was the actual drummer/rapper who recorded those parts back in the day. Much later in 2010 he was offered the full time job, but he declined (because he hadn't been given credit on the albums). It's very clear in the docummentary, you can see how angry he was about that: https://youtu.be/NiDZKY96H9Y?t=1m57s (https://youtu.be/NiDZKY96H9Y?t=1m57s)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on March 05, 2016, 11:49:07 AM
What's with all this obsession about DR doing rap?
Who is DR?

Django Reinhardt?

No, Derek Roddy. He was the actual drummer/rapper who recorded those parts back in the day. Much later in 2010 he was offered the full time job, but he declined (because he hadn't been given credit on the albums). It's very clear in the docummentary, you can see how angry he was about that: https://youtu.be/NiDZKY96H9Y?t=1m57s (https://youtu.be/NiDZKY96H9Y?t=1m57s)

The snake guy?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chaossystem on March 05, 2016, 11:56:16 AM
What's with all this obsession about DR doing rap?
Who is DR?

Blame the Kindle I was using at the time! That thing doesn't know how to SPELL!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 05, 2016, 02:38:31 PM
What's with all this obsession about DR doing rap?
Who is DR?

Blame the Kindle I was using at the time! That thing doesn't know how to SPELL!

You mean the Kingdle?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on March 05, 2016, 03:07:25 PM
This is my review of cd 1.  I have about 20 listens of it.  I tried to be honest with my feelings.  Overall, I like it more than before but it is certainly the album that is taking me the longest time to enjoy it.  It has nothing to do by the fact that it is a concept album.  For instance, when Marillion released Misplaced childhood in 1986, it was a fantastic album right from the start and basically perfect from A to Z after a few listens. For me, even with my best attempt of liking that album, I don't find great melodies in an amount of number that can surpass some of the previous album of DT.  Just for example, ADTOE has way much more quality harmonies than TA.  But that's my opinion and I know there is a large amount of guys who do not agree.  So here is what I think of cd 1 which by the way looks like a much better one that cd 2.

Descent of the Nomacs                                             Digital intro
Dystopian overture                                                   Themes of the album, good stuff
The gift of music                                                       Good rock tune.
The answer                                                              short ballad, good
A better life                                                               ballad, good
Lord Nafaryus                                                           Old fashioned Queenish rock song
A savior in the square                                                Beautiful harmony on the chorus
When your time has come                                          Hollow years type of song, nice
Act of Faythe                                                             A Disney theme ballad
Three days                                                                Portnoy would have loved to sing on that one
The hovering sojourn                                                 Digital stuff
Brother can you hear me?                                          ballad, a military anthem, nice one
A life left behind                                                        beautiful ballad
Ravenskill                                                                  I don't get this one
Chosen                                                                     ballad, sounds like repeating the previous ones
A tempting offer                                                        don't like it
Digital discord                                                            digital stuff again
The x aspect                                                              ballad with a beginning sounding like Days of our lives theme
Anew beginning                                           good rock song with Kansas influence.  the guitar solo at the end is boring and too long.  Reminds me of the one at the end of Genesis's Abacab.
The road to revolution                                                A ballad, a pop rock, a hard rock and a operarock in the same song.

So there are good parts and some beautiful harmonies.  I can't deny that it is good.  I am not hooked that much.  Only the songs or parts that I have noted Beautiful are great moment for me on cd 1.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 05, 2016, 03:56:56 PM
A better life                                                               ballad, good
Brother can you hear me?                                          ballad, a military anthem, nice one
A life left behind                                                        beautiful ballad

tbh I wouldn't call any of those ballads. At least not purely (around 2-3 mins of ALLB is a ballad, but the rest frame it in a way that the song becomes not one if that makes sense). A Better Life is a Prog Metal song and BCYHM is as you said, an anthem. Glad to see the album has grown on you though. I'm interested in why you don't like Ravenskill or A Temping Offer. Those may be some of my favourite tracks on the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: 1neeto on March 05, 2016, 04:17:22 PM
There's only one rap song in that album. And it's pretty bad.  :laugh:
Honor Thy Father?

Lol yep. The only song from that album I actually skip.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on March 05, 2016, 07:59:17 PM
What's with all this obsession about DR doing rap?
Who is DR?
Django Reinhardt?
Pretty sure he didn't do very much rapping.
Not that we know of.   :justjen
Um, clearly you guys haven't heard his underground mixtape, "Django Unchained."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on March 05, 2016, 09:17:19 PM
A better life                                                               ballad, good
Brother can you hear me?                                          ballad, a military anthem, nice one
A life left behind                                                        beautiful ballad

tbh I wouldn't call any of those ballads. At least not purely (around 2-3 mins of ALLB is a ballad, but the rest frame it in a way that the song becomes not one if that makes sense). A Better Life is a Prog Metal song and BCYHM is as you said, an anthem. Glad to see the album has grown on you though. I'm interested in why you don't like Ravenskill or A Temping Offer. Those may be some of my favourite tracks on the album.

Ravenskill isn't bad.  The last part of it is my favorite.  But for the rest, the intro is long and boring to me.  SHHHHH voice by James with nothing special in the music (for me).  And when they get going, nothing really appealing.

A tempting offer, I simply don't get catch by that piece of music.  I don't feel anything fun in it.  The last part with the violin is the only thing good to me.

A better life, for me it's a ballad.  Just like This is the life on ADTOE is one. But really it doesn't matter.  That's one of the very good song of the album.

Brother..., sounds like an anthem but the pace of it is like a ballad to me.  A very good song.

A life left behind, the beginning is not a ballad of course but then... you know when you can balance your arms up from left to right in a concert... that's quite a ballad.  A very good song.


Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 05, 2016, 11:29:55 PM
What's with all this obsession about DR doing rap?
Who is DR?
Django Reinhardt?
Pretty sure he didn't do very much rapping.
Not that we know of.   :justjen
Um, clearly you guys haven't heard his underground mixtape, "Django Unchained."

:clap:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SjundeInseglet on March 06, 2016, 03:49:51 AM
Anew beginning                                           good rock song with Kansas influence.  the guitar solo at the end is boring and too long.  Reminds me of the one at the end of Genesis's Abacab.

Good luck with that one. You're probably the first person I've seen say that. To each his own but to me, that's one of the best JP solos in years. It has a beautiful flow to it and (if anything) most people wanted it to actually last longer than it does.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on March 06, 2016, 08:16:35 AM
Anew beginning                                           good rock song with Kansas influence.  the guitar solo at the end is boring and too long.  Reminds me of the one at the end of Genesis's Abacab.

Good luck with that one. You're probably the first person I've seen say that. To each his own but to me, that's one of the best JP solos in years. It has a beautiful flow to it and (if anything) most people wanted it to actually last longer than it does.

Not only the guitar solo is boring but most importantly all the music composure is.  Usually JP will take us with his solos using different tempos, often taking us to a crescendo part.  If I feel something, I would tell.  Here it is like they just fill a space with a long solo.  And honestly, that is not a complicated one, certainly not to JP standards.  If you listen to Lines on the sand or The spirit carries on, you will notice all the variations on the volume, the picking, a certain blues approach at times.  And in fact, as I was saying, all the components of the solo could have been better. If there would have been some kind of explosions from the drum parts, you know, something happening a little bit more to make my eyes open and say wow.  That's my opinion.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Luoto on March 06, 2016, 08:31:40 AM
Here it is like they just fill a space with a long solo.  And honestly, that is not a complicated one, certainly not to JP standards.  If you listen to Lines on the sand or The spirit carries on, you will notice all the variations on the volume, the picking, a certain blues approach at times.  And in fact, as I was saying, all the components of the solo could have been better. If there would have been some kind of explosions from the drum parts, you know, something happening a little bit more to make my eyes open and say wow.  That's my opinion.

The solo is characterised by the fact it's backed by a couple of recurring musical motifs that appear earlier on the album, which is why the structure is relatively simple. Note the "catch phrase" at 5:44 that gets repeated later.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on March 06, 2016, 10:51:22 AM
There's only one rap song in that album. And it's pretty bad.  :laugh:
Honor Thy Father?

Lol yep. The only song from that album I actually skip.

Haha oh yeah.  I don't mind it though, and I love that intro riff!  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on March 06, 2016, 11:52:03 AM
I like Honor Thy Father.  Don't cross the crooked step :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gm5k on March 06, 2016, 12:27:52 PM


 If there would have been some kind of explosions from the drum parts, you know, something happening a little bit more to make my eyes open and say wow.  That's my opinion.

I know most people love it BECAUSE they didn't do all those things and it just "grooves"...but I agree with this. Wish they had the done the more usual DT thing, building it and building it with crescendo/various creative ideas and fills from Mangini.  Although I do love the song and even quite like the solo, I would have enjoyed the ending much more that way.  Since so many love it it's probably for the better the way it is though.  A very unique moment in DT's history.

Also, the instrumental passage right before the solo might be my favorite instrumental moment on the album.  Sounds so videogamey in the best way  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: thosava on March 07, 2016, 12:46:42 AM
I have to say you're not the only one who is not crazy about the solo. I like it a lot, but what makes the song amazing is everything before the solo. It was better live with another minute or so added to it!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 07, 2016, 07:45:34 AM
I just read a few tweets by James - I guess this ends our speculation about the Nafaryus' spoken voice:

Charlie, Rich doesn't voice any one of the characters on the album, it is all me. Originally what we use each night as the intro to the show was going to be included on the album but we ran out of space or data. What u hear at the beginning of each show is Rich's voice.

https://twitter.com/jameslabrie/status/705487313447591937 (https://twitter.com/jameslabrie/status/705487313447591937)
https://twitter.com/jameslabrie/status/705487723591819264 (https://twitter.com/jameslabrie/status/705487723591819264)

This was in response to a question by a fan:
https://twitter.com/david0akes/status/705151117647282176 (https://twitter.com/david0akes/status/705151117647282176)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 07, 2016, 07:46:51 AM
I suspected that was the part that was credited to Chycki.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on March 07, 2016, 08:19:11 AM
So the show intro was intended to be on the album as well, huh. They really did run out of room on that first disc, cutting that and fading ANB solo too.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 07, 2016, 08:31:19 AM
So the full Act I is around 83 minutes (as Jordan Rudess keeps saying the album is 2h 13m), enough to be a double album on its own. It could've made sense for DT to take advantage of the digital format and present the full Act I without the CD-limit cuts. Not that big a deal though, considering it's only 3 mins and aren't crucual to the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Another_Won on March 07, 2016, 09:03:54 AM
I would defininatley buy the ANB release without the fadout!  I'd probably pay for the other stuff too.  Let the pressure on the band to release these commence :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on March 07, 2016, 09:33:16 AM
I wonder then if the "Attention Battalion" is just from a sound catalogue
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on March 07, 2016, 12:00:56 PM
Personally, I'm ok with them cutting out the spoken intro. It was pretty cool as an intro to the live show, but I think it may have been a little distracting, and a step too far on the album.

Just leave the music to tell the story.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on March 07, 2016, 12:05:36 PM
This short "Interview" (Actually sounds more like an extract from another interview) from an italian webzine has Petrucci making an important point:

https://www.metallus.it/news/dream-theater-la-musica-oggi-e-consumata-in-modo-passivo-parola-di-john-petrucci/

"There are two ways to see it. Years ago, to have commercial success and be first in the charts, you had to sell so many albums, so only pop artists were making it. You couldn't even compete with them, 'cause they were the only ones who could sell million of copies. Now phisical CD sales are dropped a lot so a band like ours, with such a vast audience, is able to compete without having to seell millions of albums and chart in the top 10. Problem is, and this is also the underlying message of the album, that music is consumed in a more passive way. With  streaming and downloading it all became too much easy, so we chose to write something that almost forces you to si down and listen to it, and we were inspired a lot by our own experience. As teenagers, we listened to full albums of Rush, full albums of Pink Floyd, staying there with lights out, and it was wonderful. It wasn't like today, when you barely listen to a song for 30 seconds."


Well, nothing that we couldn't figure out by ourselves, but I like the "Sit down and listen to this for 2 hours dammit" approach, hehe!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: IdoSC on March 07, 2016, 12:09:20 PM
Pretty late to the party on saying that, but just saw "red barchetta"'s review of CD1 and it reminded me how much it surprises me when people think Disney before SDOIT (specifically Goodnight Kiss) when they listen to Act of Faythe. I mean yeah, there is some resemblance to Disney there, but am I the only one who really feels like that's basically Goodnight Kiss 2.0 (and love it for that)?

The Answer and Chosen give off a much stronger Disney/Aladdin vibe to me, but then again, I love Disney music so that's not an issue for me personally (also Lord Nafaryus is basically James LaBrie doing Matthew Bellamy doing a Disney villain impersonation, aka best song on the album).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on March 07, 2016, 12:20:35 PM
I don't see any similiarity between Goodnight Kiss and Act of Faythe.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 07, 2016, 12:28:03 PM
I don't see any similiarity between Goodnight Kiss and Act of Faythe.

Other than the general progression of the track (gets gradually louder), I don't either.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on March 07, 2016, 12:50:41 PM
Personally, I'm ok with them cutting out the spoken intro. It was pretty cool as an intro to the live show, but I think it may have been a little distracting, and a step too far on the album.

Just leave the music to tell the story.
I would have loved that extra noise from the NOMAC at the end of Descent of the NOMACs
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 07, 2016, 03:07:06 PM
Whenever I listen to " When your time has come " I picture James singing it on stage with a big shaker :P

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on March 07, 2016, 04:45:04 PM
Pretty late to the party on saying that, but just saw "red barchetta"'s review of CD1 and it reminded me how much it surprises me when people think Disney before SDOIT (specifically Goodnight Kiss) when they listen to Act of Faythe. I mean yeah, there is some resemblance to Disney there, but am I the only one who really feels like that's basically Goodnight Kiss 2.0 (and love it for that)?

The Answer and Chosen give off a much stronger Disney/Aladdin vibe to me, but then again, I love Disney music so that's not an issue for me personally (also Lord Nafaryus is basically James LaBrie doing Matthew Bellamy doing a Disney villain impersonation, aka best song on the album).

It's funny you're saying that.  Today I was thinking that it reminded me a song Dennis De Young (former Styx frontman) wrote many years ago.  A ballad which at the time had been written for a Disney movie or something like that.  And to be honest I realised that I could not believe that DT had now follow that way.  I simply could not believe it!  But in the context of a concept album I guess it has its place.  I don't necessarily like it and hope that's is not what I have to look for for the next decade to come.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 07, 2016, 09:38:10 PM
What Disney song sounds like Act of Faythe? Specifics please.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on March 07, 2016, 09:40:38 PM
What Disney song sounds like Act of Faythe? Specifics please.

I don't think anyone said it sounds like a specific Disney song, just that it sounds like it could be a Disney song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 07, 2016, 09:49:30 PM
Personally, I'm ok with them cutting out the spoken intro. It was pretty cool as an intro to the live show, but I think it may have been a little distracting, and a step too far on the album.

Just leave the music to tell the story.

The spoken intro gave a little bit more exposition, but it was a bit of a cheesy start to the album. But the lyrics make up what is lost, so I guess I prefer it without the intro.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on March 07, 2016, 11:59:42 PM
Pretty late to the party on saying that, but just saw "red barchetta"'s review of CD1 and it reminded me how much it surprises me when people think Disney before SDOIT (specifically Goodnight Kiss) when they listen to Act of Faythe. I mean yeah, there is some resemblance to Disney there, but am I the only one who really feels like that's basically Goodnight Kiss 2.0 (and love it for that)?

The Answer and Chosen give off a much stronger Disney/Aladdin vibe to me, but then again, I love Disney music so that's not an issue for me personally (also Lord Nafaryus is basically James LaBrie doing Matthew Bellamy doing a Disney villain impersonation, aka best song on the album).
Well, parts of SDOIT sound like Disney (especially the overture) so I guess both comparisons can be valid at the same time. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 08, 2016, 01:22:05 AM
Pretty late to the party on saying that, but just saw "red barchetta"'s review of CD1 and it reminded me how much it surprises me when people think Disney before SDOIT (specifically Goodnight Kiss) when they listen to Act of Faythe. I mean yeah, there is some resemblance to Disney there, but am I the only one who really feels like that's basically Goodnight Kiss 2.0 (and love it for that)?

The Answer and Chosen give off a much stronger Disney/Aladdin vibe to me, but then again, I love Disney music so that's not an issue for me personally (also Lord Nafaryus is basically James LaBrie doing Matthew Bellamy doing a Disney villain impersonation, aka best song on the album).
Well, parts of SDOIT sound like Disney (especially the overture) so I guess both comparisons can be valid at the same time. :lol

The SDOIT Overture is very Disney in places, between the orchestral sounds and the happy major key vibe. But SDOIT is my favourite DT song, and I love every minute of it, so that's not a bad thing. Same goes with TA.

I don't get a strong Disney feel from Act of Faythe though. It's always reminded me more of the cleaner parts of Octavarium.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on March 08, 2016, 07:30:12 AM
Never said it was a bad thing. :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 08, 2016, 07:36:10 AM
I know, but some people have used/taken the Disney comparison as a criticism, so I just wanted to make it clear I didn't mean it as such. :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on March 08, 2016, 07:49:57 AM
It's not Disney Metal enough.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on March 08, 2016, 08:40:50 AM
Disney is awesome. Those who disagree have no heart.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 08, 2016, 08:41:38 AM
Didn't want to start a new thread...


- - - - - Six Degrees Disc Two VS The Astonishing - - - - -

• Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence Disc 2

or

• The Astonishing



Which is your favourite ?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 08, 2016, 08:47:43 AM
lol


My favourite DT song (tied) from my favourite DT album, vs at very best 8th ranked album (probably more like 9th or 10th), from which I only listen to roughly the same amount of music as SDOIT disc 2 anyway. This will be a tough deliberation.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on March 08, 2016, 08:50:53 AM
 :eek The yellow....it hurts my eyes!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 08, 2016, 08:51:54 AM
I had to highlight it to read it, since yellow on white is completely unreadable.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on March 08, 2016, 09:30:30 AM
This is why I use the BCSL theme. Easy on the eyes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 08, 2016, 09:31:50 AM
Dark themes make my eyes hurt and water within a minute. Painful and strainful on my eyes. And also it's not 1997 any more. :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on March 08, 2016, 10:05:50 AM
Dark =/= 0 0 0  black contrasting with 255 255 255 white text

the bcsl theme is lotion for my eyes honestly
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 08, 2016, 10:10:59 AM
Didn't say it had to be, but anything with text lighter than the background is eye cancer to me, including the BCASL theme. It instantly does weird shit to my eyes.

Either way, yellow text is nasty because we have so many themes that you don't know whether people are using light or dark.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on March 08, 2016, 10:13:02 AM
Light to dark, dark to light Blob?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: tristl on March 08, 2016, 10:28:55 AM
I was at the concert sunday in paris, my fiance who never really liked DT, never wanted to listen to it more then one minute ;), was going with me, and she really loved it. :metal
I really think the astonishing as alive experience can gain many new fans for DT.
I think the idea to only go to opera/theatre venus was a brillant one and fits perfect for the concept.
that beeing said, I am looking forward to headbang in the frontrow again the next tour comming :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 08, 2016, 10:44:48 AM
Didn't want to start a new thread...


- - - - - Six Degrees Disc Two VS The Astonishing - - - - -

• Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence Disc 2

or

• The Astonishing



Which is your favourite ?

The Astonishing obviously.





The longer the better.

:P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on March 08, 2016, 11:00:17 AM
What Disney song sounds like Act of Faythe? Specifics please.

I don't think anyone said it sounds like a specific Disney song, just that it sounds like it could be a Disney song.

 :tup

Someone who understands what I'm saying.  Then no need to argue for nothing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on March 08, 2016, 11:06:50 AM
I was at the concert sunday in paris, my fiance who never really liked DT, never wanted to listen to it more then one minute ;), was going with me, and she really loved it. :metal
I really think the astonishing as alive experience can gain many new fans for DT.
I think the idea to only go to opera/theatre venus was a brillant one and fits perfect for the concept.
that beeing said, I am looking forward to headbang in the frontrow again the next tour comming :metal

Honestly I can understand why your fiancée loves TA and before never liked DT.  It's the same reason why I'm not crazy about TA.  And for the head banging, TA makes you shortened your head banging stuff as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 08, 2016, 11:41:03 AM
White website backgrounds should be illegal.

Beneath The Surface background ftw.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on March 08, 2016, 11:45:14 AM
I was at the concert sunday in paris, my fiance who never really liked DT, never wanted to listen to it more then one minute ;), was going with me, and she really loved it. :metal
I really think the astonishing as alive experience can gain many new fans for DT.
I think the idea to only go to opera/theatre venus was a brillant one and fits perfect for the concept.
that beeing said, I am looking forward to headbang in the frontrow again the next tour comming :metal

Glad that your fiancé loved the concert.  If my buddy does not go to Cincy with me, I may sell my tickets.  Not sure I want to make a 6 hour drive for this concert.  My wife says she will go, and to be honest she  may like the TA concert more than myself.  Of course if she goes, we will have to make a stop at Ikea near Cincy. :facepalm: 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: tristl on March 08, 2016, 11:47:21 AM
I had problems myself with TA in the beginning, I really love it now, especially after the concert.
I am looking forward to a live dvd from TA :metal
it is just another aspect of DT, but Iam very glad beeing fan of a band which still is able to bring new aspects to the table.
I am always looking forward to a new DT album, with metallica for example I just get frustrated.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ZirconBlue on March 08, 2016, 11:52:56 AM
Light to dark, dark to light Blob?

In the end, he only sees the change.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: tristl on March 08, 2016, 11:54:25 AM
I was at the concert sunday in paris, my fiance who never really liked DT, never wanted to listen to it more then one minute ;), was going with me, and she really loved it. :metal
I really think the astonishing as alive experience can gain many new fans for DT.
I think the idea to only go to opera/theatre venus was a brillant one and fits perfect for the concept.
that beeing said, I am looking forward to headbang in the frontrow again the next tour comming :metal

Glad that your fiancé loved the concert.  If my buddy does not go to Cincy with me, I may sell my tickets.  Not sure I want to make a 6 hour drive for this concert.  My wife says she will go, and to be honest she  may like the TA concert more than myself.  Of course if she goes, we will have to make a stop at Ikea near Cincy. :facepalm:

Yes, thats the deal, you always have to bribe them ;D,
we spent three days in paris, it was quite expensive, but really nice ;)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: escruting on March 08, 2016, 01:01:00 PM
Anew beginning                                           good rock song with Kansas influence.  the guitar solo at the end is boring and too long.  Reminds me of the one at the end of Genesis's Abacab.

Good luck with that one. You're probably the first person I've seen say that. To each his own but to me, that's one of the best JP solos in years. It has a beautiful flow to it and (if anything) most people wanted it to actually last longer than it does.

Not only the guitar solo is boring but most importantly all the music composure is.  Usually JP will take us with his solos using different tempos, often taking us to a crescendo part.  If I feel something, I would tell.  Here it is like they just fill a space with a long solo.  And honestly, that is not a complicated one, certainly not to JP standards.  If you listen to Lines on the sand or The spirit carries on, you will notice all the variations on the volume, the picking, a certain blues approach at times.  And in fact, as I was saying, all the components of the solo could have been better. If there would have been some kind of explosions from the drum parts, you know, something happening a little bit more to make my eyes open and say wow.  That's my opinion.
I'm with you on this guys. For me the solo diminishes the best song in the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 08, 2016, 09:52:09 PM
Dark website backgrounds should be illegal.

FTFY. Adjust your monitor properly. ;)

I never put much thought into the A New Beginning solo. All I know is it's cool. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thematt202 on March 09, 2016, 04:16:01 AM
Didn't want to start a new thread...


- - - - - Six Degrees Disc Two VS The Astonishing - - - - -

• Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence Disc 2

or

• The Astonishing



Which is your favourite ?

Listened to both yesterday and TA blows SDOIT out of the water.  I find SDOIT starts strong with Overture and About to Crash, then gets boring/meanders along until About to Crash (reprise) and Grand Finale. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on March 09, 2016, 06:10:15 AM
Is this the controversial thread? :lol

I really like TA a lot but it does not beat out 6DOIT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 09, 2016, 06:22:15 AM
I love both about equally. May even slightly prefer TA due to the increased length.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 09, 2016, 06:24:10 AM
Increased length does seem to make a difference.  ;)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Onno on March 09, 2016, 07:40:00 AM
Didn't want to start a new thread...


- - - - - Six Degrees Disc Two VS The Astonishing - - - - -

• Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence Disc 2

or

• The Astonishing



Which is your favourite ?

Listened to both yesterday and TA blows SDOIT out of the water.  I find SDOIT starts strong with Overture and About to Crash, then gets boring/meanders along until About to Crash (reprise) and Grand Finale.
For me it's the exact opposite  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Outcrier on March 09, 2016, 08:00:08 AM
You could make a disc with the best songs on TA and it wouldn't even come close to beat SDOIT Disc 2.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on March 09, 2016, 08:00:45 AM
Yup.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 09, 2016, 08:04:00 AM
You could make a disc with the best songs on TA and it wouldn't even come close to beat SDOIT Disc 2.

True...

It would actually beat it instead.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 09, 2016, 08:10:04 AM
You could make a disc with the best songs on TA and it wouldn't even come close to beat SDOIT Disc 2.

True...

It would actually beat it instead.  :biggrin:

Same here. LOL
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thematt202 on March 09, 2016, 08:52:22 AM
I dunno, every part of TA seems to serve a purpose and it seems that you're never more than 30 seconds away from a spine tingling moment.  SDOIT seems far less magical and much colder/more clinical.  I do still enjoy it, but not on anywhere near the same level TA and SFAM.

The funny thing is that it's actually SDOIT that got me into DT in the first place!  I saw it in the new releases section of my local HMV and something about it piqued my interest enough for me to buy it blind (YouTube/Spotify wasn't an option back then!).  Suffice to say, I promptly bought the other 4 albums (WDaDU doesn't count) and the rest is history!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Outcrier on March 09, 2016, 09:02:52 AM
I should've noted that SDOIT is my 1º DT album (and Disc 2 is a big reason why), whereas TA is 9th place.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on March 09, 2016, 09:18:13 AM
I probably slightly prefer TA to the SDOIT title track (disc 2), but the rest of SDOIT is so ridiculously good that the album overall kicks TA's arse.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on March 09, 2016, 10:14:39 AM
You could make a disc with the best songs on TA and it wouldn't even come close to beat SDOIT Disc 2.
That would be absurd, considering that TA is about the whole experience and not individual songs.

SDOIT is my favorite DT album, but definitely TA is slowly getting up there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on March 09, 2016, 11:55:50 AM
I have TA anywhere between 3-6 depending on the week you ask, but SDOIT is at #1.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thematt202 on March 09, 2016, 12:35:24 PM
I probably slightly prefer TA to the SDOIT title track (disc 2), but the rest of SDOIT is so ridiculously good that the album overall kicks TA's arse.

Never really got into disc one either.  Glass Prison is ok, Blind Faith is amazing, Misunderstood is good (love the trippy ending), Great Debate bores me to tears and Disappear is meh.  All IMO, of course!

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on March 09, 2016, 01:22:29 PM
I probably slightly prefer TA to the SDOIT title track (disc 2), but the rest of SDOIT is so ridiculously good that the album overall kicks TA's arse.

Never really got into disc one either.  Glass Prison is ok, Blind Faith is amazing, Misunderstood is good (love the trippy ending), Great Debate bores me to tears and Disappear is meh.  All IMO, of course!


That's, like, the opposite of my opinion. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 09, 2016, 03:16:16 PM
Disc One is where it's at.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on March 09, 2016, 03:24:36 PM
Disc One is where it's at.

6 D's I assume you're talking about.
To me, Disc 2 is useless. It's music that is way beneath them, and I still don't understand why they did it. There is NO part on it that I go "Holy Shit". I like SS and GF and the solo from GK, but that's it. There's nothing remotely interesting about any of it, really.
And TGP is one song that is not aging well for me. And people call ANTR long??

Disc 1 as a stand alone disc is excellent. But as a whole, I'm take TA easily.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 09, 2016, 03:30:47 PM

To me, Disc 2 is useless. It's music that is way beneath them, and I still don't understand why they did it. There is NO part on it that I go "Holy Shit". I like SS and GF and the solo from GK, but that's it. There's nothing remotely interesting about any of it, really.

whoa
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dtvoices94 on March 09, 2016, 03:43:23 PM
I haven't stopped listening to TA and honestly I was worried I would burn out on it.  TA is top five for me because it has everything I like about Dream Theater.  It has the heavy stuff, the melodic stuff, the softer stuff and the musicianship is top notch.  The only thing it's really missing is an epic but that wouldn't work within the context of what they were going for.  I have such a deep connection to Awake, I&W, SDOIT, and SFAM so it will be tough for TA to move past the 5 spot.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 09, 2016, 03:48:23 PM
Disc One is where it's at.

6 D's I assume you're talking about.
To me, Disc 2 is useless. It's music that is way beneath them, and I still don't understand why they did it. There is NO part on it that I go "Holy Shit". I like SS and GF and the solo from GK, but that's it. There's nothing remotely interesting about any of it, really.
And TGP is one song that is not aging well for me. And people call ANTR long??

Disc 1 as a stand alone disc is excellent. But as a whole, I'm take TA easily.

You took this a bit more extreme than I would, but in general I agree with you. TA EASILY, disc 2 of SDOIT is not really interesting to me besides the About to Crash's and Solitary Shell.  The rest I can do without, TA is way more cohesive as a whole.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pretorios on March 09, 2016, 04:33:24 PM
Disc One is where it's at.

6 D's I assume you're talking about.
To me, Disc 2 is useless. It's music that is way beneath them, and I still don't understand why they did it. There is NO part on it that I go "Holy Shit". I like SS and GF and the solo from GK, but that's it. There's nothing remotely interesting about any of it, really.
And TGP is one song that is not aging well for me. And people call ANTR long??

Disc 1 as a stand alone disc is excellent. But as a whole, I'm take TA easily.

I have to agree. If there's one thing that still baffles me, it's the love for disc 2 of SDOIT. I just don't get it. Disc 1 is great, but if I'm being honest, disc 2 is rubbish.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ThatOneGuy2112 on March 09, 2016, 04:47:58 PM
Six Degrees Disc 2 isn't cohesive but it is consistent. It's not got their best material (besides maybe the Overture and About to Crash Reprise), but none of it is bad and it never meanders for too long.

That said, I'd take Disc 1 over it any day.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 09, 2016, 05:52:33 PM
So this has become the SDOIT thread.  :lol

Anyway, just came in to say that Chosen has really gone up quickly to be among my favorites. In my bus commute earlier, the song came up between Bridges in the Sky and Behind the Veil. I started to sing and drum along to the song, and some people looked at me because I am listening through my earphones.  :lol

Such a beautiful song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 09, 2016, 07:35:58 PM
Such a beautiful song.

Mm, I'm not liking "Chosen" yet. The chorus is too... 'Bon Jovi' for my taste. I've grown tired of that chord progression after 15 years of hearing it everywhere. Good for you, though!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 09, 2016, 09:07:59 PM
Disc One is where it's at.

6 D's I assume you're talking about.
To me, Disc 2 is useless. It's music that is way beneath them, and I still don't understand why they did it. There is NO part on it that I go "Holy Shit". I like SS and GF and the solo from GK, but that's it. There's nothing remotely interesting about any of it, really.

How is beautifully written music beneath them? I find every single track of it interesting.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 09, 2016, 09:31:16 PM
Such a beautiful song.

Mm, I'm not liking "Chosen" yet. The chorus is too... 'Bon Jovi' for my taste. I've grown tired of that chord progression after 15 years of hearing it everywhere. Good for you, though!

That's what I likee about it. It's Dream Theater doing a Bon Jovi.  :lol  I shared the song to my wife because I am so in love.  :heart
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 09, 2016, 09:37:44 PM
I don't get a Bon Jovi vibe from it. I'd probably like it even more if I did! :biggrin: (I like it anyway)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on March 09, 2016, 09:49:02 PM
James LaBrie ONLY THREE LINES...

HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAH
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 10, 2016, 02:01:45 AM
I don't get a Bon Jovi vibe from it. I'd probably like it even more if I did! :biggrin: (I like it anyway)

The chorus has that vibe for me. Think Bon Jovi singing:

"But I can't climb this mountain without you
No, I can't face this on my own
With you by my side, we will open his eyes
And the truth will deliver us home."

Use the style of one those post-Keep The Faith Bon Jovi songs, ala These Days.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 10, 2016, 05:41:56 AM
I don't get a Bon Jovi vibe from it. I'd probably like it even more if I did! :biggrin: (I like it anyway)

The chorus has that vibe for me. Think Bon Jovi singing:

"But I can't climb this mountain without you
No, I can't face this on my own
With you by my side, we will open his eyes
And the truth will deliver us home."

Use the style of one those post-Keep The Faith Bon Jovi songs, ala These Days.  :lol

I don't hear it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 10, 2016, 06:03:37 AM
I'm strictly pre-Keep the Faith for Bon Jovi. Still don't hear it though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 10, 2016, 06:08:35 AM
I'm strictly pre-Keep the Faith for Bon Jovi. Still don't hear it though.

I pretty much stopped listening around that same time. They were my favorite band way back when.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on March 10, 2016, 06:11:26 AM
I'm strictly pre-Keep the Faith for Bon Jovi. Still don't hear it though.

I pretty much stopped listening around that same time. They were my favorite band way back when.

Me too actually. I haven't bought any of their albums since KTF.
Dry County came up on 'shuffle' a couple of weeks back - that's a great song.  :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on March 10, 2016, 06:11:54 AM
I couldn't get my phone out quick enough, but yesterday while I was bringing my son to school, I was at a red light and the license plate in front of me was BONJVI!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 10, 2016, 06:14:29 AM
I'm strictly pre-Keep the Faith for Bon Jovi. Still don't hear it though.

I pretty much stopped listening around that same time. They were my favorite band way back when.

Me too actually. I haven't bought any of their albums since KTF.
Dry County came up on 'shuffle' a couple of weeks back - that's a great song.  :)

Yes, that's one of the better songs on that album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thierry on March 10, 2016, 06:49:23 AM
I'm strictly pre-Keep the Faith for Bon Jovi. Still don't hear it though.

Big Bon Jovi fan here ;). These Days is by far my favorite album, dark and moody.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 10, 2016, 07:10:35 AM
I'm strictly pre-Keep the Faith for Bon Jovi. Still don't hear it though.

During "Chosen" I keep hearing the choruses of a slower "Livin' On A Prayer"/"Stick To Your Guns"/"I'll Be There For You" (or, for post-New Jersey material, "Always"/"Bed Of Roses"/"Thank You For Loving Me").

I think my favourite song might be "Captain Crash & The Beauty Queen From Mars".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on March 10, 2016, 07:51:20 AM
I probably slightly prefer TA to the SDOIT title track (disc 2), but the rest of SDOIT is so ridiculously good that the album overall kicks TA's arse.

Never really got into disc one either.  Glass Prison is ok, Blind Faith is amazing, Misunderstood is good (love the trippy ending), Great Debate bores me to tears and Disappear is meh.  All IMO, of course!

The only song I really like is Glass Prison.  The rest of D1 is meh for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 10, 2016, 07:55:59 AM
Chosen is my favorite song on the album
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 10, 2016, 08:17:00 AM
Some people must still be on that post-release sugar high to rank TA higher than SDOIT. I mean, not even close.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 10, 2016, 08:17:54 AM
I'm strictly pre-Keep the Faith for Bon Jovi. Still don't hear it though.

During "Chosen" I keep hearing the choruses of a slower "Livin' On A Prayer"/"Stick To Your Guns"/"I'll Be There For You" (or, for post-New Jersey material, "Always"/"Bed Of Roses"/"Thank You For Loving Me").

:lol Yeah, like a combo of Always and Thank You For Loving Me. That vibe.

Or better yet.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz9gm0vlhlY

:lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on March 10, 2016, 09:02:33 AM
Yeah...I'm amazed James LaBrie isn't doing that laugh live. The lines before really lead up to that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 10, 2016, 09:04:32 AM
Some people must still be on that post-release sugar high to rank TA higher than SDOIT. I mean, not even close.

Not me, never was a big fan of SDOIT disc 2.  Disc 1 is great though but that wasn't the comparison.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on March 10, 2016, 09:09:21 AM
Some people must still be on that post-release sugar high to rank TA higher than SDOIT. I mean, not even close.

Why isn't it close?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Podaar on March 10, 2016, 09:11:07 AM
Because Rock.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on March 10, 2016, 09:13:59 AM
Six Degrees is my all time favorite DT album and The Astonishing ties that album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on March 10, 2016, 09:21:25 AM
SDOIT is awesome, but it feels longer to me than The Astonishing despite actually being shorter. I dunno... The album as a whole just doesn't gel as nicely, IMO. Still a great record, though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 10, 2016, 09:26:32 AM
SDOIT is awesome, but it feels longer to me than The Astonishing despite actually being shorter. I dunno... The album as a whole just doesn't gel as nicely, IMO. Still a great record, though.

Complete opposite for me. SDOIT, song and album, have always flown by for me every single time, without skipping a thing. TA has been a thorough slog to get through for me, and there's no way I could manage it in one go without skipping half of it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 10, 2016, 09:32:47 AM
SDOIT is awesome, but it feels longer to me than The Astonishing despite actually being shorter. I dunno... The album as a whole just doesn't gel as nicely, IMO. Still a great record, though.

Complete opposite for me. SDOIT, song and album, have always flown by for me every single time, without skipping a thing. TA has been a thorough slog to get through for me, and there's no way I could manage it in one go without skipping half of it.

I wouldn't say TA feels shorter, because it's significant;y longer, but I get the sentiment.  TA flows much better as a whole than SDOIT, I always felt that song was more of separate tracks than one song because of that reason.  TA's two acts almost feel like they could be a long song each, the flow and musical themes just go much better IMO.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on March 10, 2016, 09:38:36 AM
The only thing TA has made realise about SDOIT lately is the cheap synth orchestral sounds used. I didn't really pay much attention to that in the past but boy, there is a big difference in orchestral sound quality.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 10, 2016, 09:44:08 AM
Some people must still be on that post-release sugar high to rank TA higher than SDOIT. I mean, not even close.

Um, no.  :lol

TA started off very low in my rankings, but over time it got to 2nd place. That's not a 'post-release sugar high'.

I wouldn't say TA feels shorter, because it's significant;y longer, but I get the sentiment.  TA flows much better as a whole than SDOIT, I always felt that song was more of separate tracks than one song because of that reason.  TA's two acts almost feel like they could be a long song each, the flow and musical themes just go much better IMO.

I agree on TA flowing well as an album, but SDoIT to me is more cohesive as a single unit because it is shorter and movements transition in a natural way compared to the many silences between TA tracks (and only one proper transition in ASitS - WYTHC, although TGoM and MoB smoothly after the overtures on each Act). TA is more satisfying to me purely because it's 130 mins against 42.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on March 10, 2016, 09:53:26 AM
TA started off very low in my rankings, but over time it got to 2nd place. That's not a 'post-release sugar high'.

Over time?? It's only been out 6 weeks! :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 10, 2016, 09:56:57 AM
TA started off very low in my rankings, but over time it got to 2nd place. That's not a 'post-release sugar high'.

Over time?? It's only been out 6 weeks! :lol

It's still a period of time!  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 10, 2016, 10:41:06 AM
Some people must still be on that post-release sugar high to rank TA higher than SDOIT. I mean, not even close.

Why isn't it close?

Obviously this is all down to personal preference, but SDOIT, to me (and I think to many others) is in the upper echelon of DT's Top 3.
TA, no.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 10, 2016, 11:09:24 AM
:lol Yeah, like a combo of Always and Thank You For Loving Me. That vibe.

Or better yet.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz9gm0vlhlY

:lol

Hey, that one is really the most similar!
I didn't know that song until now. Never was a Bon Jovi fan, but my younger brother had their CDs up until Have A Nice Day. I think I liked some songs on Bounce, but never cared for anything after.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Outcrier on March 10, 2016, 11:45:04 AM
Some people must still be on that post-release sugar high to rank TA higher than SDOIT. I mean, not even close.

I'm not surprised, this happens with every new album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on March 10, 2016, 11:49:51 AM
Chosen is my favorite song on the album
That is one incredible song!  So we'll written and the sound and melody lines are just perfect. This should be a hit single all over the radio right now..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 10, 2016, 11:57:21 AM
I love TA more and more with each listen. I went through it three times today. There I was, on the 2 train, heading to a site. I'm listening to the second half of the second act. As everything in the story unfolds: Faythe's almost death, Gabriel refinding his voice, Nafaryus having a change of heart, tears are welling up in my eyes on everything from My Last Farewell to The Astonishing. So much so that the woman next to me turned and asked if I was alright.

I think the second disc is by far the more powerful of the two in regards to the story. It's so intense and profound that I find it hard to get through without feeling something from it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on March 10, 2016, 01:04:00 PM
I love TA more and more with each listen. I went through it three times today. There I was, on the 2 train, heading to a site. I'm listening to the second half of the second act. As everything in the story unfolds: Faythe's almost death, Gabriel refinding his voice, Nafaryus having a change of heart, tears are welling up in my eyes on everything from My Last Farewell to The Astonishing. So much so that the woman next to me turned and asked if I was alright.

I think the second disc is by far the more powerful of the two in regards to the story. It's so intense and profound that I find it hard to get through without feeling something from it.

You're an emotional dude, huh?


And yes, TA is amazing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 10, 2016, 01:16:00 PM
I love TA more and more with each listen. I went through it three times today. There I was, on the 2 train, heading to a site. I'm listening to the second half of the second act. As everything in the story unfolds: Faythe's almost death, Gabriel refinding his voice, Nafaryus having a change of heart, tears are welling up in my eyes on everything from My Last Farewell to The Astonishing. So much so that the woman next to me turned and asked if I was alright.

I think the second disc is by far the more powerful of the two in regards to the story. It's so intense and profound that I find it hard to get through without feeling something from it.

You're an emotional dude, huh?


And yes, TA is amazing.

A resounding yes in regards to both sentences.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lax on March 10, 2016, 01:42:06 PM
I love TA more and more with each listen. I went through it three times today. There I was, on the 2 train, heading to a site. I'm listening to the second half of the second act. As everything in the story unfolds: Faythe's almost death, Gabriel refinding his voice, Nafaryus having a change of heart, tears are welling up in my eyes on everything from My Last Farewell to The Astonishing. So much so that the woman next to me turned and asked if I was alright.

I think the second disc is by far the more powerful of the two in regards to the story. It's so intense and profound that I find it hard to get through without feeling something from it.
This
From first listen to know, I have tears each time I listen to act 2, I'm not able to sing along path of divide or my last farewell or hymn of a thousand voices, they hit my guts so hard.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 10, 2016, 01:45:38 PM
It's good to see that I'm not alone.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 10, 2016, 01:59:17 PM
I love TA more and more with each listen. I went through it three times today. There I was, on the 2 train, heading to a site. I'm listening to the second half of the second act. As everything in the story unfolds: Faythe's almost death, Gabriel refinding his voice, Nafaryus having a change of heart, tears are welling up in my eyes on everything from My Last Farewell to The Astonishing. So much so that the woman next to me turned and asked if I was alright.

I think the second disc is by far the more powerful of the two in regards to the story. It's so intense and profound that I find it hard to get through without feeling something from it.
This
From first listen to know, I have tears each time I listen to act 2, I'm not able to sing along path of divide or my last farewell or hymn of a thousand voices, they hit my guts so hard.

I agree with this too.  Act one is more of the set up to the story but act 2 is where all the action goes down and therefore where there is a lot of emotion.  This album definitely brings out some emotions with me which is difficult to do.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 10, 2016, 02:26:22 PM
Both Acts are pretty vital to the story. Act II wouldn't be as powerful without Act I. Very well constructed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on March 10, 2016, 02:47:30 PM
So much so that the woman next to me turned and asked if I was alright.

^ Ha, this is great. I have to admit to getting a bit misty at certain sections too. :'(

The album is still holding up well for me. Most folks in our office sit with headphones on most of the day, so it allows me to listen to large chunks at a time. Besides, being in IT, nobody likes to communicate verbally anyway. IM-ing the guy sitting right beside you 3 ft away at the next desk is not uncommon.. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 10, 2016, 02:54:48 PM
So much so that the woman next to me turned and asked if I was alright.

^ Ha, this is great. I have to admit to getting a bit misty at certain sections too. :'(

The album is still holding up well for me. Most folks in our office sit with headphones on most of the day, so it allows me to listen to large chunks at a time. Besides, being in IT, nobody likes to communicate verbally anyway. IM-ing the guy sitting right beside you 3 ft away at the next desk is not uncommon.. :lol

You work at my company?  :lol It's odd how the office is so quiet but the chat rooms are so active... with the people all sitting next to each other.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on March 10, 2016, 03:20:22 PM
I'm sure it seems very weird to anyone not used to that sort of environment.

Anyway, the bosses seem to like it that way. If we don't talk to each other, we can't argue, and the murder rate is kept to an acceptable level.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chaossystem on March 10, 2016, 03:48:20 PM
Every company should have an acceptable murder rate!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on March 10, 2016, 09:05:33 PM
Every company should have an acceptable murder rate!
That's a KILLER idea!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on March 10, 2016, 09:09:44 PM
Chosen is definitely great.

It also sounds nothing like Bon Jovi.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 11, 2016, 01:34:01 AM
Chosen is definitely great.

It also sounds nothing like Bon Jovi.

But what if we're talking about this Bon Jovi?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SptZSYieps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz9gm0vlhlY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoRjvYzqdrQ

 :lol Yeah, I am pushing it. :p

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on March 11, 2016, 02:19:10 AM
I keep imagining the life of the characters after the album ends. Just think: Nafaryus (through Faythe) becomes Xander's step-grandfather. (Gabriel: "We're going to visit Grampa Nafaryus today!") Also, he's stuck with that name long after he turned "good". Someone's bound to ask him "Why are you called Nafaryus?" at some point down the line.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on March 11, 2016, 02:25:35 AM
Xander probably talks shit about his uncle Daryus, he's still pissed about the whole dad thing. "X, my son, that's not very nice." "Who cares? He can't hear me anyway!"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 11, 2016, 04:11:46 AM
Say what you want about Daryus....
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DragonAttack on March 11, 2016, 04:41:41 AM
Now I've got visions of the earless chocolate Easter bunny running through my head.........
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zydar on March 11, 2016, 04:42:56 AM
:lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 11, 2016, 08:05:32 AM
I always thought that the chorus of Status Seeker sounded like 7800 Degrees Farenheit - era Bon Jovi.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 11, 2016, 09:16:29 AM
I always thought that the chorus of Status Seeker sounded like 7800 Degrees Farenheit - era Bon Jovi.

That's a very specific album title :lol

What's your new album title , Jon ?

7800 Degrees Farenheit.

:P Not 7000 ?

:angry: 7800 !!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on March 11, 2016, 09:27:39 AM
The ever-reliable Wikipedia tells us:

"The album's title was a reference to the supposed melting point of rock"

(https://buckomania.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/magma2.jpg)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on March 11, 2016, 09:33:29 AM
I keep imagining the life of the characters after the album ends. Just think: Nafaryus (through Faythe) becomes Xander's step-grandfather. (Gabriel: "We're going to visit Grampa Nafaryus today!") Also, he's stuck with that name long after he turned "good". Someone's bound to ask him "Why are you called Nafaryus?" at some point down the line.
'It was prettier than Bug'
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 11, 2016, 09:34:05 AM
The ever-reliable Wikipedia tells us:

"The album's title was a reference to the supposed melting point of rock"

(https://buckomania.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/magma2.jpg)

So the title is a reference to the point at which it's no longer hard rock? :neverusethis:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 11, 2016, 09:47:59 AM
It was never hard rock.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thoughtspart3 on March 11, 2016, 09:02:38 PM
TA keeps getting better for me.  I think that doing concept pieces really brings out the best in DT. 

One thing I didn't notice until someone mentioned it is that the cymbals are really low in the mix.  You can barely hear them.   
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 12, 2016, 09:56:33 AM
Labrie confirmed in Twitter that Rich doesn't speak on the album at all. He was supposed to do an intro to the album but it got dropped.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Luoto on March 12, 2016, 12:23:45 PM
Labrie confirmed in Twitter that Rich doesn't speak on the album at all. He was supposed to do an intro to the album but it got dropped.

Which apparently serves as the intro tape to The Astonishing live shows.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 12, 2016, 12:54:00 PM
Labrie confirmed in Twitter that Rich doesn't speak on the album at all. He was supposed to do an intro to the album but it got dropped.

Which apparently serves as the intro tape to The Astonishing live shows.

That's pretty much it, as far as I know.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on March 12, 2016, 01:33:28 PM
Labrie confirmed in Twitter that Rich doesn't speak on the album at all. He was supposed to do an intro to the album but it got dropped.

Which apparently serves as the intro tape to The Astonishing live shows.

That's pretty much it, as far as I know.

Yip. IIRC, the spoken intro was similar to the 'trailer' video that was released just before the album was. It may even be the same dialogue, but I'm happy to be corrected.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 12, 2016, 02:14:25 PM
So it's James doing "Attention Batallion!" ??
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 12, 2016, 02:47:37 PM
So it's James doing "Attention Batallion!" ??

Mm, there's always the chance that it is a sample/stock sound (maybe from a movie?). There are many parts in the album which I'd bet are sample/stock sounds:

That said, I googled the "Attention battalion!" complete phrase, but every result was about DT, so if it is a sample, it probably isn't from a movie or TV.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on March 12, 2016, 03:20:54 PM
I think that same voice though said Arhys' Introduction on that DT Spotify playlist thing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 12, 2016, 05:24:56 PM
Here's a question: Why would Nafaryus tolerate a fully-fledged paramilitary battalion that operates in the open? A battalion is 500-1000 people.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wasteland on March 12, 2016, 07:01:08 PM
Here's a question: Why would Nafaryus tolerate a fully-fledged paramilitary battalion that operates in the open? A battalion is 500-1000 people.

To be fair Nefaryus, despite being by far my favourite character in the story, didn't strike me as the sharpest tool in the shed.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 12, 2016, 09:19:17 PM
Here's a question: Why would Nafaryus tolerate a fully-fledged paramilitary battalion that operates in the open? A battalion is 500-1000 people.

Maybe he wanted to allow it to grow a bit to weed out everyone in the rebellion.

Or maybe the story isn't well thought out.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on March 12, 2016, 09:27:18 PM
A friend just described the fighting samples in 'The Path that Divides' as Age of Empires sounds.

I was not disappointed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on March 13, 2016, 04:41:06 AM
Here's a question: Why would Nafaryus tolerate a fully-fledged paramilitary battalion that operates in the open? A battalion is 500-1000 people.

Who said they were that many? he would still address them as a battalion even if they were scarcely prepared and numbered, it doesn't help morale to call a battalion "you hundred people who think that can hold a gun but has still so much to learn".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 13, 2016, 08:36:32 AM
Unless you are suggesting he was using the term in jest as a nickname ("my little battalion") ... no. Military is super anal about using correct nomenclature.
It's just thrown-together samples, sadly. As someone else pointed out, he asks his battalion to march when they are already marching.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 13, 2016, 08:39:39 AM
It's a rebel militia in a dystopian future. These peasants presumably have little knowledge of a real military as we know it.

And it's probably a stock sample that happened to best fit along with the marching stock sample.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 13, 2016, 08:52:20 AM
Or maybe the story of a dystopian future where music is what makes life astonishing and human suffering is caused by the lack of music should be taken as a bunch of metaphors, rather than judged with realistic logic.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 13, 2016, 11:46:13 AM
Or maybe the story of a dystopian future where music is what makes life astonishing and human suffering is caused by the lack of music should be taken as a bunch of metaphors, rather than judged with realistic logic.

:getoffmylawn: we don't like your logical type round here boy !
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on March 13, 2016, 02:13:34 PM
Or maybe the story of a dystopian future where music is what makes life astonishing and human suffering is caused by the lack of music should be taken as a bunch of metaphors, rather than judged with realistic logic.

:tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on March 13, 2016, 02:15:40 PM
It's a rebel militia in a dystopian future. These peasants presumably have little knowledge of a real military as we know it.

And it's probably a stock sample that happened to best fit along with the marching stock sample.
Both of these, but especially the first. Think you're being a bit too literal, Rumby.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zook on March 13, 2016, 02:50:43 PM
I love The Astonishing, but hate that invisible blanket covering the speakers.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 13, 2016, 05:07:32 PM
I love The Astonishing, but hate that invisible blanket covering the speakers.

It's *slightly* muddy but not THAT bad.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: vazquez on March 13, 2016, 08:33:02 PM
I love The Astonishing, but hate that invisible blanket covering the speakers.

WHAT?

Do I have an amazing sound system? The Astonishing is one of the best albums I have ever heard, sound-wise!

That makes no sense to me. Even today I was listening to a lot of great bands and thinking - the sound of this cd is not as clear as The Astonishing.

I admit that comment left me almost confused - my sound system is not cheap, but it´s not state-of-the-art... I guess.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 13, 2016, 08:52:22 PM
My only complaint with TA's sound production is that the cymbals should be higher in the mix. A lot of details were lost. I am guessing maybe it's because the higher frequencies were already competing with each other, with the orchestra and stuff, so they had to compromise.

The kick drum as rumbo said may sound like a typewriter sometimes. It works in many of the songs, not so good in some. Maybe they prioritize being consistent.

For Myung, he sounds a bit low in the mix. BUT when I think of the soundscape they are trying to create, with a musical and orchestra-like atmosphere, the mixing makes sense.

I also think that's the reason why the band as a whole are less playful and show-offish than the usual. They were not going for "prog" soundscape. They were going for "musical".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zook on March 13, 2016, 10:32:28 PM
I love The Astonishing, but hate that invisible blanket covering the speakers.

WHAT?

Do I have an amazing sound system? The Astonishing is one of the best albums I have ever heard, sound-wise!

That makes no sense to me. Even today I was listening to a lot of great bands and thinking - the sound of this cd is not as clear as The Astonishing.

I admit that comment left me almost confused - my sound system is not cheap, but it´s not state-of-the-art... I guess.

It sounds the worst in my car. Not so bad on my headphones plugged into the computer, but in the car it kind of bothers me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 13, 2016, 11:41:40 PM
I've only listened to it a couple of times on CD; I usually listen on Spotify. However, I've never heard it sounding anything like an invisible blanket is covering the speakers.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 14, 2016, 06:22:49 AM
I really enjoy the mix overall.  Definitely one of their best sounding albums IMO and easily the best in awhile although I don't have the complaints that are typical on DTF regarding the sound/mix.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 14, 2016, 08:12:59 AM
I love The Astonishing, but hate that invisible blanket covering the speakers.
No clue what you're talking about.  Probably their best-sounding album since, well, a long damn time.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 14, 2016, 08:14:17 AM
I really enjoy the mix overall.  Definitely one of their best sounding albums IMO and easily the best in awhile although I don't have the complaints that are typical on DTF regarding the sound/mix.

This exactly.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on March 14, 2016, 10:43:12 AM
The only thing that bugs me to no end regarding the production is the ending of A Tempting Offer (bummer given I love that song very much) with the weird 'take the evening to deci-----de'. I know JP already ruled any mistakes out, but it just sounds weird. Once it was pointed out and I payed attention, it's been impossible to unlisten.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on March 14, 2016, 11:52:04 AM
The only thing that bugs me to no end regarding the production is the ending of A Tempting Offer (bummer given I love that song very much) with the weird 'take the evening to deci-----de'. I know JP already ruled any mistakes out, but it just sounds weird. Once it was pointed out and I payed attention, it's been impossible to unlisten.

oh my god why did you have to do this
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 14, 2016, 02:03:33 PM
Every company should have an acceptable murder rate!
That's a KILLER idea!
:rollin

Unless you are suggesting he was using the term in jest as a nickname ("my little battalion") ... no. Military is super anal about using correct nomenclature.

Yes, but as already pointed out, this is not a professional military.  It is a peasant militia.  But going back to the original question about why Naf' allowed it to exist, I wondered that myself.  A few possible explanations I came up with:
1.  It could be that the Empire actually encouraged militias in outlying areas with the thought that they are peasant military forces that the Empire can call upon in times of need (or when the Empire needs cannon fodder troops to send in somewhere to minimize the casualties of the actual regular army). 
2.  Naf' knew about them, but did not know how big or organized they were, and did not take action because he did not see them as an actual threat.
3.  Naf' didn't actually know about them.
4.  Actual plot hole.
Who knows whether it is any of these options or something else?

It's just thrown-together samples, sadly. As someone else pointed out, he asks his battalion to march when they are already marching.

Well, yes and no.  Although those two samples may literally seem inconsistent, I don't think it was a mistake or carelessness.  I think they are both there just to add feel and texture, and not to be taken literally.  The marching sound may not have been intended to indicate that soldiers are actually marching, but rather to just give a military feel to the passage.  Or it may be meant to convey that one group was already marching, and the "battalion" that is being addressed is a separate group that are being ordered to attention and then ordered to march as well.  Again, I think over-literalizing it to try to find supposed mistakes is missing the point.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 14, 2016, 02:09:23 PM
Yes, but as already pointed out, this is not a professional military.  It is a peasant militia.  But going back to the original question about why Naf' allowed it to exist, I wondered that myself.  A few possible explanations I came up with:
1.  It could be that the Empire actually encouraged militias in outlying areas with the thought that they are peasant military forces that the Empire can call upon in times of need (or when the Empire needs cannon fodder troops to send in somewhere to minimize the casualties of the actual regular army). 
2.  Naf' knew about them, but did not know how big or organized they were, and did not take action because he did not see them as an actual threat.
3.  Naf' didn't actually know about them.
4.  Actual plot hole.
Who knows whether it is any of these options or something else?

Naf finds out about Gabriel in the song Lord Nefarius right? News finds its way to the empire one day... I just assumed that is when he learned not only about Gabriel, but also about the militia or specifically about the following as "the chosen one"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on March 14, 2016, 02:40:54 PM
He might have thought it would be too expensive to travel that far to engage them in battle unless absolutely necessary.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on March 14, 2016, 03:23:16 PM
The only thing that bugs me to no end regarding the production is the ending of A Tempting Offer (bummer given I love that song very much) with the weird 'take the evening to deci-----de'. I know JP already ruled any mistakes out, but it just sounds weird. Once it was pointed out and I payed attention, it's been impossible to unlisten.
oh my god why did you have to do this
I remain shocked anyone is able to get by without hearing it immediately.  It was so jarring to my ear from first listen.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on March 14, 2016, 03:32:33 PM
I do wonder if JP did hear it and just doesn't want to admit it, which I understand.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 14, 2016, 03:38:04 PM
What is supposed to be wrong with that section?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on March 14, 2016, 03:41:21 PM
When JLB says "Take the evening to decide" he says decide, but it kinda cuts out in the middle so it sounds like de-ide. It definitely doesn't ruin it for me and barely notice it, but when I really think about it, it jumps out.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 14, 2016, 03:43:59 PM
I'm not hearing a mistake.  I am hearing a vocal part that is very soft, almost a whisper, and James drawing out the consonant sound as the drums and other instruments sound.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on March 14, 2016, 03:45:31 PM
 
I'm not hearing a mistake.  I am hearing a vocal part that is very soft, almost a whisper, and James drawing out the consonant sound as the drums and other instruments sound.

This. I don't think it's a mistake. I just never noticed it and it sounds pretty awful now that I know it's there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on March 14, 2016, 03:45:46 PM
I'm not hearing a mistake.  I am hearing a vocal part that is very soft, almost a whisper, and James drawing out the consonant sound as the drums and other instruments sound.
You're probably right, but to me it sounds like someone hit pause on JLB and then hit play again.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zook on March 14, 2016, 04:27:28 PM
What is supposed to be wrong with that section?

Imagine the word decide was highlighted in Audacity to be faded out, but the whole word wasn't highlighted.

Deeeciiiiiiiiiiiiide
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 14, 2016, 07:14:15 PM
Yes, but as already pointed out, this is not a professional military.  It is a peasant militia.  But going back to the original question about why Naf' allowed it to exist, I wondered that myself.  A few possible explanations I came up with:
1.  It could be that the Empire actually encouraged militias in outlying areas with the thought that they are peasant military forces that the Empire can call upon in times of need (or when the Empire needs cannon fodder troops to send in somewhere to minimize the casualties of the actual regular army). 
2.  Naf' knew about them, but did not know how big or organized they were, and did not take action because he did not see them as an actual threat.
3.  Naf' didn't actually know about them.
4.  Actual plot hole.
Who knows whether it is any of these options or something else?
In my opinion it was probably 3 (or maybe 2). After all, they are called 'Ravenskill Rebel Militia'.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on March 14, 2016, 10:08:52 PM
Nafaryus thought Gabriel was trying to start a revolution to become emperor, but it wasn't like that. Gabriel had his gift but has questions about himself (The Answer). Arhys was preparing the militia, and had a more militaristic mind.

I think the song Lord Nafaryus is about when he discovers about Gabriel and the militia, and that his first action about it is to check it out as it happens in A Savior In The Square.

About the batallion in A Better Life, as with the horses and trumpet in A Savior In The Square, I see them as more as a way of conveying the scene than what necessarily happened. They set the tone.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 14, 2016, 10:13:19 PM
Yes, but as already pointed out, this is not a professional military.  It is a peasant militia.  But going back to the original question about why Naf' allowed it to exist, I wondered that myself.  A few possible explanations I came up with:
1.  It could be that the Empire actually encouraged militias in outlying areas with the thought that they are peasant military forces that the Empire can call upon in times of need (or when the Empire needs cannon fodder troops to send in somewhere to minimize the casualties of the actual regular army). 
2.  Naf' knew about them, but did not know how big or organized they were, and did not take action because he did not see them as an actual threat.
3.  Naf' didn't actually know about them.
4.  Actual plot hole.
Who knows whether it is any of these options or something else?
In my opinion it was probably 3 (or maybe 2). After all, they are called 'Ravenskill Rebel Militia'.
Yes, that is true.  Good point.  BUT it is #1 is still possible in that the GNE had militias, but the Ravenskill militia secretly referred to themselves as a "rebel" militia. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 14, 2016, 11:00:06 PM
Yes, that is true.  Good point.  BUT it is #1 is still possible in that the GNE had militias, but the Ravenskill militia secretly referred to themselves as a "rebel" militia. 
Didn't think about that. Makes sense!
You mean, like 'Yes, Dark Master, I will fight for you!', but really 'I do not fight for you, Dark Master!'?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on March 15, 2016, 08:09:40 AM
Looks like they updated the trailer. I'm not sure if I'm the last to know, or what?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LHFswk8K3o
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 15, 2016, 08:32:38 AM
Looks like they updated the trailer. I'm not sure if I'm the last to know, or what?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LHFswk8K3o
I'd say you were the first to know! (it seems it was uploaded just an hour ago). Cool trailer! I suppose most of it is part of the video projections in the show (anyone can confirm?). My favourite bits were the eye at 0:52, and Daryus' 'disfigured' head at 1:13.

Also: nice to see some confirmation that they plan on continuing to tour next year!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on March 15, 2016, 08:41:08 AM
I prefer the old one! More cheesy.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erciccio on March 15, 2016, 08:49:26 AM
Probably you have already noticed it before, but the NOMACS on the astonishing page has a third clickable eye, and sometimes I hear weird rumors if I click/ scroll over them...
The sound is random, I don't understand if it's a problem with my PC..

EDIT- you get random NOMACS noise when you scroll over the NOMAC, not if you push the buttons..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on March 15, 2016, 09:21:26 AM
Looks like they updated the trailer. I'm not sure if I'm the last to know, or what?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LHFswk8K3o
I'd say you were the first to know! (it seems it was uploaded just an hour ago). Cool trailer! I suppose most of it is part of the video projections in the show (anyone can confirm?). My favourite bits were the eye at 0:52, and Daryus' 'disfigured' head at 1:13.

Also: nice to see some confirmation that they plan on continuing to tour next year!

 :tup I like that new one a lot!! Yes, it looks like they have mixed in some of the video from the live show along with elements from the last trailer. The DT logo and swirly fire effects in the first few seconds are really cool.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: theanalogkid7 on March 15, 2016, 09:26:27 AM
Interesting that the new trailer had "World Tour 2016-2017". I wonder if there's still the possibility of a second leg that would include the southern US!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zook on March 15, 2016, 11:03:35 AM
I guess my car speakers just suck, because the album sounds pretty clear on my headphones.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 15, 2016, 11:43:00 AM
I'm not hearing a mistake.  I am hearing a vocal part that is very soft, almost a whisper, and James drawing out the consonant sound as the drums and other instruments sound.
You're probably right, but to me it sounds like someone hit pause on JLB and then hit play again.
Okay, I tried to focus in on it at higher volume on a better system, and I definitely hear what you mean now.  But I am still not sure it is a mistake.  It just sounds odd.  When James switches to the near whisper and the word starts to fade out, I usually stop paying attention to the vocals, and my attention shifts to what the instruments are doing, which is why I think I never noticed it before.  But right when the drums and other instruments sound, it sounds like the vocals come back in right in the middle of the word at full volume.  So, yeah, it does sound like that is a remnant from another take.  Whether it is or not, who knows?  It just may be a quirk in the way James sang it.  Wouldn't be the first time.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tick on March 15, 2016, 11:48:48 AM
I took a self imposed necessary 2 week break from the album because I was wearing it out. The result was a fresh new perspective, hearing songs differently than before. Songs like Moment of Betrayal, The Walking Shadow, My last Farewell and others have really come to life.
Sometimes distancing yourself from an album and returning down the road can bring the music to a whole other level.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on March 15, 2016, 12:22:32 PM
I'm not hearing a mistake.  I am hearing a vocal part that is very soft, almost a whisper, and James drawing out the consonant sound as the drums and other instruments sound.

This. I don't think it's a mistake. I just never noticed it and it sounds pretty awful now that I know it's there.

Unreal, I've listened to this track 20 times and never noticed this.  Now that I know about it its going to bug me, because it is - without a doubt - a mistake.  Yuck!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on March 15, 2016, 12:23:16 PM
I took a self imposed necessary 2 week break from the album because I was wearing it out. The result was a fresh new perspective, hearing songs differently than before. Songs like Moment of Betrayal, The Walking Shadow, My last Farewell and others have really come to life.
Sometimes distancing yourself from an album and returning down the road can bring the music to a whole other level.

I tried to do this.  I lasted 24 hours.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 15, 2016, 12:42:25 PM
People talk about the "deciiiiiiiide" section, but I've yet to see a comment about the vocal delivery of "And let me bring you back to earth". That one is ... odd, to say the least.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on March 15, 2016, 12:47:18 PM
I took a self imposed necessary 2 week break from the album because I was wearing it out. The result was a fresh new perspective, hearing songs differently than before. Songs like Moment of Betrayal, The Walking Shadow, My last Farewell and others have really come to life.
Sometimes distancing yourself from an album and returning down the road can bring the music to a whole other level.

I tried to do this.  I lasted 24 hours.

It's a drug and I am addicted as well....
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 15, 2016, 12:48:35 PM
I guess my car speakers just suck, because the album sounds pretty clear on my headphones.

With most music (not all), there's a world of difference between listening to music on headphones and a generic car stereo.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 15, 2016, 12:50:25 PM
I'm not hearing a mistake.  I am hearing a vocal part that is very soft, almost a whisper, and James drawing out the consonant sound as the drums and other instruments sound.

This. I don't think it's a mistake. I just never noticed it and it sounds pretty awful now that I know it's there.

Unreal, I've listened to this track 20 times and never noticed this.  Now that I know about it its going to bug me, because it is - without a doubt - a mistake.  Yuck!

Not necessarily.  Again, it could just be the way James phrased it.  It is hard to hear exactly what is going on during that vocal transition because of the drum hit and other instruments, so although it sounds like punching in from another take, it may not be that at all.

People talk about the "deciiiiiiiide" section, but I've yet to see a comment about the vocal delivery of "And let me bring you back to earth". That one is ... odd, to say the least.

Yeah, it definitely is.  I was just thinking that again this morning.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zook on March 15, 2016, 12:52:50 PM
I guess my car speakers just suck, because the album sounds pretty clear on my headphones.

With most music (not all), there's a world of difference between listening to music on headphones and a generic car stereo.

How dare you assume my car stereo is generic even though it totally is.

Something I loved about my old car's speakers is that when one blew out, it made Iced Earth's Dante's Inferno sound even more awesome with the enhanced bass, which was just a broken speaker rattling, but it still sounded cool.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 15, 2016, 12:56:18 PM
People talk about the "deciiiiiiiide" section, but I've yet to see a comment about the vocal delivery of "And let me bring you back to earth". That one is ... odd, to say the least.

There are a few "odd" vocal deliveries by JLB on this album, but maybe I've just gotten used to them that I enjoy them now, including this one.  I remember on my first listen having a few dumbfounded looks on my face at different spots, this was one of them.  And at the end of Chosen, "Home" just feels so odd, but like the others, I enjoy it now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 15, 2016, 12:56:46 PM
I guess my car speakers just suck, because the album sounds pretty clear on my headphones.

With most music (not all), there's a world of difference between listening to music on headphones and a generic car stereo.

How dare you assume my car stereo is generic even though it totally is.

Something I loved about my old car's speakers is that when one blew out, it made Iced Earth's Dante's Inferno sound even more awesome with the enhanced bass, which was just a broken speaker rattling, but it still sounded cool.

Not only did I dare, but I triple dog dared.  I'm surprised my car speakers are still going ten years later. I guess Hyundai Motors makes durable speakers.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tick on March 15, 2016, 01:05:09 PM
I'm not hearing a mistake.  I am hearing a vocal part that is very soft, almost a whisper, and James drawing out the consonant sound as the drums and other instruments sound.

This. I don't think it's a mistake. I just never noticed it and it sounds pretty awful now that I know it's there.

Unreal, I've listened to this track 20 times and never noticed this.  Now that I know about it its going to bug me, because it is - without a doubt - a mistake.  Yuck!

Not necessarily.  Again, it could just be the way James phrased it.  It is hard to hear exactly what is going on during that vocal transition because of the drum hit and other instruments, so although it sounds like punching in from another take, it may not be that at all.

People talk about the "deciiiiiiiide" section, but I've yet to see a comment about the vocal delivery of "And let me bring you back to earth". That one is ... odd, to say the least.

Yeah, it definitely is.  I was just thinking that again this morning.  :lol
Will you guys stop over analyzing! Its vintage James, in all his glory! :tick2:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zook on March 15, 2016, 01:07:46 PM
I guess my car speakers just suck, because the album sounds pretty clear on my headphones.

With most music (not all), there's a world of difference between listening to music on headphones and a generic car stereo.

How dare you assume my car stereo is generic even though it totally is.

Something I loved about my old car's speakers is that when one blew out, it made Iced Earth's Dante's Inferno sound even more awesome with the enhanced bass, which was just a broken speaker rattling, but it still sounded cool.

Not only did I dare, but I triple dog dared.  I'm surprised my car speakers are still going ten years later. I guess Hyundai Motors makes durable speakers.  :lol

Funny, my Hyundai Elantra is going on 11 years old. I'm a little behind on maintenance, but I've been told that Hyundais can last quite a long time if taken care of.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on March 15, 2016, 01:13:57 PM
I guess my car speakers just suck, because the album sounds pretty clear on my headphones.

With most music (not all), there's a world of difference between listening to music on headphones and a generic car stereo.

How dare you assume my car stereo is generic even though it totally is.

Something I loved about my old car's speakers is that when one blew out, it made Iced Earth's Dante's Inferno sound even more awesome with the enhanced bass, which was just a broken speaker rattling, but it still sounded cool.

Not only did I dare, but I triple dog dared.  I'm surprised my car speakers are still going ten years later. I guess Hyundai Motors makes durable speakers.  :lol

Funny, my Hyundai Elantra is going on 11 years old. I'm a little behind on maintenance, but I've been told that Hyundais can last quite a long time if taken care of.

It's true. They really are built amazingly well. With the exception of tires and breaks being replaced when needed, I haven't had to bring it in for any extensive work.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 15, 2016, 01:20:45 PM
I'm not hearing a mistake.  I am hearing a vocal part that is very soft, almost a whisper, and James drawing out the consonant sound as the drums and other instruments sound.

This. I don't think it's a mistake. I just never noticed it and it sounds pretty awful now that I know it's there.

Unreal, I've listened to this track 20 times and never noticed this.  Now that I know about it its going to bug me, because it is - without a doubt - a mistake.  Yuck!

Not necessarily.  Again, it could just be the way James phrased it.  It is hard to hear exactly what is going on during that vocal transition because of the drum hit and other instruments, so although it sounds like punching in from another take, it may not be that at all.

People talk about the "deciiiiiiiide" section, but I've yet to see a comment about the vocal delivery of "And let me bring you back to earth". That one is ... odd, to say the least.

Yeah, it definitely is.  I was just thinking that again this morning.  :lol
Will you guys stop over analyzing! Its vintage James, in all his glory! :tick2:

Making an observation that an odd delivery is odd is not overanalyzing. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on March 15, 2016, 01:24:26 PM
What's odd about that line? The way he kinda takes a pause before he says earth?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 15, 2016, 01:26:36 PM
You really don't hear the oddness? For lack of a better description, it kinda sounds as if he's about to throw up :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tick on March 15, 2016, 01:36:53 PM
I'm not hearing a mistake.  I am hearing a vocal part that is very soft, almost a whisper, and James drawing out the consonant sound as the drums and other instruments sound.

This. I don't think it's a mistake. I just never noticed it and it sounds pretty awful now that I know it's there.

Unreal, I've listened to this track 20 times and never noticed this.  Now that I know about it its going to bug me, because it is - without a doubt - a mistake.  Yuck!

Not necessarily.  Again, it could just be the way James phrased it.  It is hard to hear exactly what is going on during that vocal transition because of the drum hit and other instruments, so although it sounds like punching in from another take, it may not be that at all.

People talk about the "deciiiiiiiide" section, but I've yet to see a comment about the vocal delivery of "And let me bring you back to earth". That one is ... odd, to say the least.

Yeah, it definitely is.  I was just thinking that again this morning.  :lol
Will you guys stop over analyzing! Its vintage James, in all his glory! :tick2:

Making an observation that an odd delivery is odd is not overanalyzing.
My point and I'm joking is James at his best gives some odd deliveries.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zook on March 15, 2016, 01:44:01 PM
You really don't hear the oddness? For lack of a better description, it kinda sounds as if he's about to throw up :lol

By that point, Nafaryus is pretty pissed that not only does he think Gabriel is trying to overthrow him, but he's also making googly eyes with his daughter. The delivery sounds of that of an angry man. I'm sure if Portnoy were still in the band, he would have pushed to growl that section.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on March 15, 2016, 01:55:43 PM
You really don't hear the oddness? For lack of a better description, it kinda sounds as if he's about to throw up :lol

By that point, Nafaryus is pretty pissed that not only does he think Gabriel is trying to overthrow him, but he's also making googly eyes with his daughter. The delivery sounds of that of an angry man. I'm sure if Portnoy were still in the band, he would have pushed a medieval growl that section.

FTFY :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Zook on March 15, 2016, 02:07:45 PM
You really don't hear the oddness? For lack of a better description, it kinda sounds as if he's about to throw up :lol

By that point, Nafaryus is pretty pissed that not only does he think Gabriel is trying to overthrow him, but he's also making googly eyes with his daughter. The delivery sounds of that of an angry man. I'm sure if Portnoy were still in the band, he would have pushed a medieval growl that section.

FTFY :lol

Looks like you broke it to me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on March 15, 2016, 02:14:04 PM
 :lol

Well well.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on March 15, 2016, 04:05:54 PM
You really don't hear the oddness? For lack of a better description, it kinda sounds as if he's about to throw up :lol

By that point, Nafaryus is pretty pissed that not only does he think Gabriel is trying to overthrow him, but he's also making googly eyes with his daughter. The delivery sounds of that of an angry man. I'm sure if Portnoy were still in the band, he would have pushed to growl that section.
If portnoy were still in the band this album probably would had never been recorded, unless he had control and the credit.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 15, 2016, 04:14:09 PM
You really don't hear the oddness? For lack of a better description, it kinda sounds as if he's about to throw up :lol

By that point, Nafaryus is pretty pissed that not only does he think Gabriel is trying to overthrow him, but he's also making googly eyes with his daughter. The delivery sounds of that of an angry man. I'm sure if Portnoy were still in the band, he would have pushed to growl that section.
If portnoy were still in the band this album probably would had never been recorded, unless he had control and the credit.
I highly doubt that.  If John wanted it to happen the way it did (with only him and Jordan writing), I can pretty much guarantee it would have gone down that way regardless of who was behind the kit.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on March 15, 2016, 04:22:37 PM
I just can't imagine MP relinquishing control like that. And I'm not saying that positively or negatively, he just always says he wants control.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 15, 2016, 04:33:45 PM
Pretty sure that MP's control is a bit exaggerated. Sure he wrote a fair amount of lyrics and helped in arranging, but JR has said that it was himself and JP doing most of the writing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 15, 2016, 04:41:49 PM
And John is a MUCH stronger personality than I think most people realize.  He has a laid back, easy going demeanor.  But make no mistake about the fact that he has ALWAYS had his say in this band.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on March 15, 2016, 05:58:43 PM
And John is a MUCH stronger personality than I think most people realize.  He has a laid back, easy going demeanor.  But make no mistake about the fact that he has ALWAYS had his say in this band.

So you're saying he actually does like medleys? :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 15, 2016, 06:04:37 PM
Reading through the recent interviews, it is interesting to note that the writing for TA was story - music - lyrics. The lyrics still came in last. JP and JR also wrote the music like a musical score, instead of a bunch of songs. Which I think is why there is a lack of individual playfulness in the songs, but there is more coherence across songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on March 15, 2016, 06:29:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LHFswk8K3o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LHFswk8K3o)

Here's the 2nd Trailer. Is this what the second video was supposed to be?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Another_Won on March 15, 2016, 06:52:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LHFswk8K3o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LHFswk8K3o)

Here's the 2nd Trailer. Is this what the second video was supposed to be?

Interesting.  I think this one is better than the first.  Also, the world tour will continue into 2017!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on March 15, 2016, 07:38:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LHFswk8K3o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LHFswk8K3o)

Here's the 2nd Trailer. Is this what the second video was supposed to be?

Interesting.  I think this one is better than the first.  Also, the world tour will continue into 2017!

Just wondering if the world tour will go to Mexico and South America and then back around thru Europe and then back to the US and if it does, would they do the same tour with just TA or a varied set list.  I was hoping for a varied set list if they came to Atlanta later in the year or early 2017.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 16, 2016, 06:53:47 AM
I always figured that playing all of TA would be just the first leg (of Europe and N.A.) but maybe the success of the tour so far will lead them to continue? (I'm also assuming the tour has been successful so far, I have not been following the shows).  Seeing 2017 is hopeful though so we know they will at least continue touring into next year.  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 16, 2016, 08:12:19 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LHFswk8K3o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LHFswk8K3o)

Here's the 2nd Trailer. Is this what the second video was supposed to be?
No, the second video (of the two on the website) was originally supposed to be the performance video of The Gift of Music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: devieira73 on March 16, 2016, 08:43:36 AM

Just wondering ichangeworld tour will go to Mexico and South America and then back around thru Europe and then back to the US and if it does, would they do the same tour with just TA or a varied set list.  I was hoping for a varied set list if they came to Atlanta later in the year or early 2017.

JP said in a recent interview for a brazilian magazine, Roadiecrew, that the show's format won't change wherever they play in TA tour.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 16, 2016, 09:37:48 AM
JP said in a recent interview for a brazilian magazine, Roadiecrew, that the show's format won't change wherever they play in TA tour.
Did he happen to mention if there will be a South American tour? (I'm from Argentina, so I'm interested).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: devieira73 on March 16, 2016, 09:52:32 AM
JP said in a recent interview for a brazilian magazine, Roadiecrew, that the show's format won't change wherever they play in TA tour.
Did he happen to mention if there will be a South American tour? (I'm from Argentina, so I'm interested).

Hi, Sebastian!
The interviewer only asked him about a brazilian tour and he answered that there will be one, without mention any dates. So I imagine that there will be another South American Tour, like it's happening the last 10 years. I suppose (JP didn't say that too) maybe that it will be in a fewer cities as the usual, like they're doing in Europe now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 16, 2016, 11:29:44 AM
Faythe wore proper ear protection.  Carol did not wear her safety goggles.  Don't be like Carol.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on March 16, 2016, 11:31:02 AM
Faythe wore proper ear protection.  Carol did not wear her safety goggles.  Don't be like Carol.

This is so a Direct TV commercial. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 16, 2016, 11:36:58 AM
Faythe wore proper ear protection.  Carol did not wear her safety goggles.  Don't be like Carol.

This is so a Direct TV commercial. :lol
No, it's older than that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on March 16, 2016, 11:37:34 AM
OH!  I can't place it.......
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 16, 2016, 11:40:26 AM
Just finished listening to an audio bootleg of their Berlin concert. WOW.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 16, 2016, 11:41:48 AM
OH!  I can't place it.......

Neither could Carol.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on March 16, 2016, 11:44:22 AM
OH!  I can't place it.......

Neither could Carol.

 :facepalm: :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 16, 2016, 11:59:30 AM
OH!  I can't place it.......

Neither could Carol.
True story.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheAtliator on March 16, 2016, 01:02:43 PM
Bosk mentioned something a while ago indicating there was another video coming after the Gift of Music video... Was this new trailer it? Is there still something coming? Now I've had my hopes up for weeks  :lol

And why do they still have the trailer (the old one) as both video links on the website?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on March 16, 2016, 01:59:08 PM
I see that they decided to scrap Xander flying on a raven  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mike099 on March 16, 2016, 03:35:46 PM
I see that they decided to scrap Xander flying on a raven  :lol

never more, never more
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JRuless on March 16, 2016, 04:06:25 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/music/dream-theater-live-out-sci-fi-fantasies-with-the-000938042.html (https://www.yahoo.com/music/dream-theater-live-out-sci-fi-fantasies-with-the-000938042.html)

Nice read and a confirmation about the earlier announced novel
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 16, 2016, 04:41:45 PM
As much as I love Green Day - I think they milked American Idiot . I hope Dream Theater just don't milk The Astonishing for the next few years.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 16, 2016, 04:46:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wRE3VT8tvM

Amazing tone !!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7sLmlhPZ9U&ebc=ANyPxKr5GsosIX-qL3Y8LhlR_LPj5PMdYxJOtW00WE9rbgs_epagXVCTxT1YVo7xdYc3GEeFyGjfnD0iPx6rgsg1jri_0UKcrg

JP showing us some riffs from the Astonishing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on March 16, 2016, 06:18:50 PM
After listening to TA non-stop for like a month, putting it away for a couple weeks, and coming back to it in the last few days, I apparently have come around to now liking The Walking Shadow, largely because JP's riffage in it is pretty freaking great.  I can't say I still like some of the vocal melodies in it, but I do like the song now as a whole. How about that? :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 16, 2016, 07:58:53 PM
Hi, Sebastian!
The interviewer only asked him about a brazilian tour and he answered that there will be one, without mention any dates. So I imagine that there will be another South American Tour, like it's happening the last 10 years. I suppose (JP didn't say that too) maybe that it will be in a fewer cities as the usual, like they're doing in Europe now.
Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7sLmlhPZ9U&ebc=ANyPxKr5GsosIX-qL3Y8LhlR_LPj5PMdYxJOtW00WE9rbgs_epagXVCTxT1YVo7xdYc3GEeFyGjfnD0iPx6rgsg1jri_0UKcrg

JP showing us some riffs from the Astonishing.
Thanks as well! I've been learning some stuff on the album, so this one was very useful - wether because I was playing some riffs the wrong way, or because I was playing other ones the right way.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 16, 2016, 09:50:04 PM
As much as I love Green Day - I think they milked American Idiot . I hope Dream Theater just don't milk The Astonishing for the next few years.

I don't think they'll milk it at all, but clearly they felt the story warranted other media to tell the complete story and use these elements that went underused. I don't think there will be anything excessive.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: GasparXR on March 17, 2016, 06:18:26 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wRE3VT8tvM

Amazing tone !!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7sLmlhPZ9U&ebc=ANyPxKr5GsosIX-qL3Y8LhlR_LPj5PMdYxJOtW00WE9rbgs_epagXVCTxT1YVo7xdYc3GEeFyGjfnD0iPx6rgsg1jri_0UKcrg

JP showing us some riffs from the Astonishing.

Interesting, Our New World I think is the only song other than Home where JP uses the Dropped D tuning, unless you count Misunderstood when played live.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 17, 2016, 06:27:31 AM
After listening to TA non-stop for like a month, putting it away for a couple weeks, and coming back to it in the last few days, I apparently have come around to now liking The Walking Shadow, largely because JP's riffage in it is pretty freaking great.  I can't say I still like some of the vocal melodies in it, but I do like the song now as a whole. How about that? :biggrin:

This was a song that hit me as very enjoyable after many listens, specifically for the same reason, JP's riffage.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 17, 2016, 11:51:39 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeOdfefj5OI

Here's my slightly wobbly cover of the Saviour In the Square solo. :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 17, 2016, 11:53:43 AM
https://www.yahoo.com/music/dream-theater-live-out-sci-fi-fantasies-with-the-000938042.html (https://www.yahoo.com/music/dream-theater-live-out-sci-fi-fantasies-with-the-000938042.html)

Nice read and a confirmation about the earlier announced novel

Do what they must of course, but ... there is a distinct danger that this will fall very, very flat on its face. A smartphone game, a novel, all for an album that frankly has received VERY mixed reviews.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 17, 2016, 11:57:36 AM
https://www.yahoo.com/music/dream-theater-live-out-sci-fi-fantasies-with-the-000938042.html (https://www.yahoo.com/music/dream-theater-live-out-sci-fi-fantasies-with-the-000938042.html)

Nice read and a confirmation about the earlier announced novel

Do what they must of course, but ... there is a distinct danger that this will fall very, very flat on its face. A smartphone game, a novel, all for an album that frankly has received VERY mixed reviews.

Even as someone who really likes the new album, I would prefer they just focus on the music and not dwell on the TA universe in other ways than the album as presented.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 17, 2016, 11:58:34 AM
I don't think they are overly concerned about any "danger."  It would be one thing if they were bent on making this a commercial success.  But I think the point is simply to make a big artistic statement, whether that statement is well-received or not.  And part of JP's artistic vision is to have the complete story told in several media forms, which this accomplishes.  If the novel and game achieve only very modest success, I think that will be fine with them.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 17, 2016, 12:06:40 PM
I don't think the investment in the book and game are going to be that large anyway, and I expect they wouldn't do it if it wasn't worth it. The game is a mobile game that seems like it will be based on existing framework. Getting the book done may have been part of the groundwork for the album story anyway, and I imagine a DT book would do alright, perhaps even for people who aren't sold on the concept as a rock opera.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 17, 2016, 12:45:01 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/music/dream-theater-live-out-sci-fi-fantasies-with-the-000938042.html (https://www.yahoo.com/music/dream-theater-live-out-sci-fi-fantasies-with-the-000938042.html)

Nice read and a confirmation about the earlier announced novel

Do what they must of course, but ... there is a distinct danger that this will fall very, very flat on its face. A smartphone game, a novel, all for an album that frankly has received VERY mixed reviews.

(https://i65.tinypic.com/ndkc28.png)

so mixed
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on March 17, 2016, 12:54:03 PM
Here's my impression of how the album has been reviewed by listener base:

- Press: Very good reception in general, above average compared to most Dream Theater albums
- Hardcore fans: Very good reception, only time will tell if the strong reception holds
- Fans of the genre: Good reception, based on Prog Archives
- Non-fans: Mixed reception, based on AllMusic, Amazon, and Rate Your Music

Obviously this is far from scientific and I probably got something completely wrong, but for what it's worth, that's my speculation.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 17, 2016, 12:56:49 PM
Are the fans showing up to the shows?  I think attendance is the best way to see how well liked this album is. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 17, 2016, 01:04:25 PM
Are the fans showing up to the shows?  I think attendance is the best way to see how well liked this album is.

Yes. The show I was at was pretty much sold out. I think the other dates have been similar.

Here's my impression of how the album has been reviewed by listener base:

- Press: Very good reception in general, above average compared to most Dream Theater albums
- Hardcore fans: Very good reception, only time will tell if the strong reception holds
- Fans of the genre: Good reception, based on Prog Archives
- Non-fans: Mixed reception, based on AllMusic, Amazon, and Rate Your Music

Obviously this is far from scientific and I probably got something completely wrong, but for what it's worth, that's my speculation.

I think that impression seems accurate. Not that mixed really, mostly postitive overall.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 17, 2016, 01:04:36 PM
(https://i65.tinypic.com/ndkc28.png)

so mixed

I find that Wiki page really disingenuous frankly. It cherry-picked the nice ones, and completely disregard whole sites altogether.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 17, 2016, 01:07:09 PM
Still got an 80 on metacritic which should take into account the negative as well?

I don't know what is considered a good score on metacritic though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 17, 2016, 01:17:03 PM
I find that Wiki page really disingenuous frankly. It cherry-picked the nice ones, and completely disregard whole sites altogether.

Right, because these ones are so cherry picked (ADToE and DT12 respectively):

(https://i63.tinypic.com/289a2hz.png)

Cherry picking would not have let a 3 or 5 out of 10 get through. Sure, many reviews are missed for TA (but it's similar for DT12 and ADToE), but many of those reviews are immensely positive with a ton of 10/10 reviews. The mixed ones are outliers from what I've seen and the negative ones basically non-existent.

Still got an 80 on metacritic which should take into account the negative as well?

I don't know what is considered a good score on metacritic though.

If it's green, it's considered well-received. TA is green.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 17, 2016, 01:19:06 PM
RYM and Sputnik have an accumulative 1000 ratings, and they rate it as the lowest of DT's discography. I have yet to hear a convincing argument that somehow for this album 1,000 people would go on a crusade against DT, where for earlier albums they wouldn't.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 17, 2016, 01:27:30 PM
The majority of the people listening to TA do not rate on either site. Neither do the majority of the people attending the concerts rate on either site.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 17, 2016, 01:30:58 PM
That's a rather grand claim.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 17, 2016, 01:32:31 PM
It's even more grand to suggest the opposite.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on March 17, 2016, 01:33:15 PM
I find that Wiki page really disingenuous frankly. It cherry-picked the nice ones, and completely disregard whole sites altogether.

1. I have made contributions to that page and I honestly couldn't find any press reviews in English that were negative. I've been going to Pop Matters each week to see if they posted their review because they usually blast DT (they gave the self-titled a 3/10). I've also checked Sputnik and I don't believe they've posted a staff review either. If you know of a negative, English-speaking review that would be considered an appropriate source by Wikipedia, by all means let me know.

2. Wikipedia does not allow for ratings from sites like Rate Your Music to be listed in those review blocks. They only want formal press reviews.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 17, 2016, 01:39:53 PM
It's even more grand to suggest the opposite.

How so? By default, unless one has good reason to believe otherwise, one should assume that there is no difference in demographic between DT fans who go to concerts and DT fans who rate an album on Sputnik and RYM.

2. Wikipedia does not allow for ratings from sites like Rate Your Music to be listed in those review blocks. They only want formal press reviews.

And that is problematic, to say the least. Official press ratings have their own bias; they need to maintain their stream of pre-release material, so they can't afford to be honest in many cases.
EDIT: In particular I find it weird that it would allow Metacritic, which has an entirely arbitrary accumulation and weighting scheme.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 17, 2016, 01:44:04 PM
Also: suddenly (for the past year or 2) the band/album has been talked about in Rolling Stone much more than in the past, I think. They premiered "The Gift Of Music" + John's first interview in December. I don't remember the band getting this attention from Rolling Stone with earlier albums. That's gotta mean something good, right?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on March 17, 2016, 01:45:46 PM
Having spoken to quite a few fans over the past few months, and having spoken to the band and management about the fan reaction, this album has been pretty well recieved by a majority of the fan base. The reception at the shows have been for the most part good (aside from the ever present "james can't sing" complaints and the "band is stiff as poles" complaints).

The mixed reaction isn't a new thing with DT - it has existed for every single album release. The "problem" now is that there's a large portion of the metal fan base and the "bring mike portnoy back" fan base that are extremely vocal. But you're forgetting - this knee-jerk reaction was there for Train of Thought as well - and in fact, a lot of fans dropped DT because of albums like Train of Thought and Systematic Chaos being too focused on the heavy. A lot of the people I've seen reactions from now are actually old fans that were much more into the 90's version of DT.

So the band and management does not see it as a failure - a failure would be cancelled shows due to low ticket sales. We're not seeing that. It's not an album or a tour that brings in the money - but I think it scratched an itch that needed to be scratched both for JP and JR.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 17, 2016, 01:50:49 PM
It's even more grand to suggest the opposite.

How so? By default, unless one has good reason to believe otherwise, one should assume that there is no difference in demographic between DT fans who go to concerts and DT fans who rate an album on Sputnik and RYM.

And how do we know that the people who rate DT albums on Sput/RYM are mostly DT fans? Oh wait, we don't. Both sites are increasingly prone to troll ratings and is often a place to vent for negative opinions. I wouldn't class the clusters of people who gave TA the lowest score on RYM 'DT fans', that's just not very likely.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 17, 2016, 01:52:43 PM
It's even more grand to suggest the opposite.

How so? By default, unless one has good reason to believe otherwise, one should assume that there is no difference in demographic between DT fans who go to concerts and DT fans who rate an album on Sputnik and RYM.

And how do we know that the people who rate DT albums on Sput/RYM are mostly DT fans? Oh wait, we don't. Both sites are increasingly prone to troll ratings and is often a place to vent for negative opinions. I wouldn't class the clusters of people who gave TA the lowest score on RYM 'DT fans', that's just not very likely.

RYM and Sputnik have rated DT albums normally in the past, much like DTF rates them. Again, unless you have a compelling reason for why this would be different for TA, one must assume the demographic of voters is the same as with previous albums.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on March 17, 2016, 02:00:09 PM
And that is problematic, to say the least. Official press ratings have their own bias; they need to maintain their stream of pre-release material, so they can't afford to be honest in many cases.
EDIT: In particular I find it weird that it would allow Metacritic, which has an entirely arbitrary accumulation and weighting scheme.

I actually agree with you that it would be very helpful to be able to include RYM and other public scores. I'm honestly not sure why those sorts of things are frowned upon. :lol

At the same time, Amazon's adjusted score would be an 8/10, Prog Archive's would be a 7.2, AllMusic's would be an 8, and Rate Your Music's would be a 5.4, so the average of those is pretty similar to the average of the press reviews that are there (obviously a littler lower, but not drastically).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 17, 2016, 02:04:31 PM
I actually agree with you that it would be very helpful to be able to include RYM and other public scores. I'm honestly not sure why those sorts of things are frowned upon. :lol

I'd imagine a site that tries to be accurate and factual would not want to insert something that could be "controversial" in the fact that as hinted, those ratings could be skewed by trolls or by a strong bias.  Where as publications are considered to be reliable although I'd imagine there is still bias in these reviews.  Just a thought.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 17, 2016, 02:21:53 PM
By default, unless one has good reason to believe otherwise, one should assume that there is no difference in demographic between DT fans who go to concerts and DT fans who rate an album on Sputnik and RYM.
Both groups may come from the same demographic, but that is not the same as saying both groups are the same group.

I doubt very seriously that most DT concertgoers also rate albums on sites like that.  That's like saying most DT fans who buy albums post about them at DTF.org, when it is obvious that this is not the case at all.

Rating music on sites like that is something that appeals to a specific kind of person.  For example, I don't do it, and wouldn't think of doing it, and I don't know anyone who DOES do it, except for some people like you that I only know online.  The vast majority of music listeners do not do any online rankings like that other than a tweet or a fb post, at best.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Outcrier on March 17, 2016, 02:27:35 PM
RYM and Sputnik have rated DT albums normally in the past, much like DTF rates them. Again, unless you have a compelling reason for why this would be different for TA, one must assume the demographic of voters is the same as with previous albums.

This. RYM holds in high esteem albums like Images, Scenes, Awake.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 17, 2016, 06:50:01 PM
I was just browsing through the Dream Theater statistics in Setlist.fm. Here's something interesting (to me at least):

So far, The Astonishing songs account for 580 plays (20 shows x 29 songs - the NOMACs tracks are not counted). That's more plays than the songs in Dream Theater and BC&SL.

By the time the European leg of the tour ends next week, there will have been 783 plays, which will make The Astonishing the 8th most played album by the band.

If you add the 21 shows of the North American leg in April/May (well, I see 21 shows listed on the official website), the total plays rise to 1392, making the album the 5th most played, surpassing SDoIT.

And that's only in 3 months of touring! By the end of the North American leg, the band will have played 48 shows, which is basically half of a world tour. So, we can assume that the total plays for The Astonishing will be 2000+ by the end of the year. That would make the album rise to 4th place (surpassing FII).

Now, I'm assuming the possibility that future shows will replace some songs with earlier classics. If that's not the case, and considering that they will surely play at least some other 48 shows (they've confirmed the tour going into 2017), the total ammount of plays for the album will have made it almost 2800, making The Astonishing the 2nd most played album (surpassing Awake and SFaM, and only behind Images & Words).

That is astonishing!

(Yes, the last part is possible, but unlikely. Still, in May, The Astonishing will rank 5th, becoming their most played album besides their '90s material - and that in less than 4 moths after release. That's pretty mindblowing if you ask me. I think it shows the band doesn't rest on their laurels and are really confident and happy about their new music).

EDIT: For reference, here are the Top 5 albums ordered by the ammount of plays the songs have received over the years. The statistics in Setlist.fm might be incomplete, though. Either way, The Astonishing will rank somewhere in the Top 3 once this World Tour finishes. Calling it now.

1st: I&W - 3615
2nd: SFaM - 2703
3rd: Awake - 2446
4th: FII - 1547
5th: SDoIT - 1372
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on March 17, 2016, 07:25:28 PM
It's unfair to count a full play of TA as 29 and a full play of I&W as 8.
If we want to measure the importance the songs are given in the concerts, we should also worry about the time spent playing the songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 17, 2016, 09:01:25 PM
It's unfair to count a full play of TA as 29 and a full play of I&W as 8.
If we want to measure the importance the songs are given in the concerts, we should also worry about the time spent playing the songs.
OK, fair point. Still, you can think of it this way:

1. At least by May, The Astonishing in its entirety will have been played 48 out of 48 possible times. That means the 'time spent' playing these songs will have been as much as possible, and a hell of a lot of - around 100 hours. In fact, The Astonishing will have had more live time (in just 3 months) than the self-titled and BC&SL, and almost the same as Systematic Chaos and Octavarium (and those have been around for many years). That's a pretty good start! And that's only by May.

2. If they continue to play the album in it's entirety for another 48 times (which seems possible), the 200 hours dedicated to it (just in 2016/7) will beat the time spent (through the years) to many other albums - ToT, ADToE, WDaDU and SDoIT - leaving The Astonishing in the 5th place.

Bottom line: whether you count the songs or the ammount of time, The Astonishing will "do" pretty good, and surpass at least 6 albums in this World Tour alone. Time-wise, it probably will never make it to the Top 3*, but those 3 have been around for a long, long time.

(To calculate roughly each album's live time, I used the Setlist.fm statistics and the songs' lengths, taking into account some are extended live - i.e. "Octavarium" would be 25' instead of 24', and so on. Not the best way, but then what else can you do?:P)



*Unless they decide to play The Astonishing until the end of their career! Yeay!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on March 18, 2016, 01:09:00 AM
By default, unless one has good reason to believe otherwise, one should assume that there is no difference in demographic between DT fans who go to concerts and DT fans who rate an album on Sputnik and RYM.
That's an absolutely bonkers claim. For a start, a lot of people rate things on those sites who are NOT fans. I rate absolutely tons of albums for bands that I'm not a fan of. If I listen to an album, I'll rate it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: retaehTmaerD on March 18, 2016, 03:18:31 AM
It would be great if people could just give their opinions without looking for some "objective" measure to prove they are right in their disliking (or loving) of the album...

Only statement that can be proved is that as of now the astonishing tour has been successful.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on March 18, 2016, 09:01:15 AM
BTW, I can't unhear the following: "Arhys time is running out, what will your decision be, if you still have any doubt, think about Mangini...".

I mean, even knowing the lyrics, I still don't hear "Evangeline" in that :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on March 18, 2016, 09:22:51 AM
BTW, I can't unhear the following: "Arhys time is running out, what will your decision be, if you still have any doubt, think about Mangini...".

I mean, even knowing the lyrics, I still don't hear "Evangeline" in that :lol

But wadabout the 4th syllable...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: AngelBack on March 18, 2016, 10:00:28 AM
Burning rolls
Secret sauce
Moment of betrayal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on March 18, 2016, 10:20:54 AM
Send home the huevos, call off the fight.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on March 18, 2016, 10:56:52 AM
Burning rolls
Secret sauce
Moment of betrayal

yup, Ive heard secret sauce from day 1.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 18, 2016, 11:38:54 AM
I fucking love the secret sauce  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on March 18, 2016, 11:59:43 AM
I fucking love the secret sauce  :metal

I've read this about you in the Lonely Hearts Club Thread.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 18, 2016, 12:47:59 PM
I fucking love the secret sauce  :metal

I've read this about you in the Lonely Hearts Club Thread.

 :lol the truth is out
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 18, 2016, 01:33:07 PM
Moment of Baking Tray fall.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on March 19, 2016, 12:30:07 AM
 :lol Ah yes! With a new album comes a new batch of misheard lyrics!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bacong on March 19, 2016, 05:45:28 PM
>not listening to the astonishing constantly
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on March 20, 2016, 04:40:54 AM
Had a gig last night in a tiny local club in one of the smaller Serbian cities, so to speak. At some point before we went on stage, Lord Nafaryus started playing from the PA. I don' think anyone knew what it was, but I lost my shit.  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on March 20, 2016, 06:02:46 AM
Had a gig last night in a tiny local club in one of the smaller Serbian cities, so to speak. At some point before we went on stage, Lord Nafaryus started playing from the PA. I don' think anyone knew what it was, but I lost my shit.  :metal

Cool!!! :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on March 20, 2016, 05:24:42 PM
Even as someone who really likes the new album, I would prefer they just focus on the music and not dwell on the TA universe in other ways than the album as presented.

Absolutely this.  And it has nothing to do with the album.  I listen to DT for new music (the listen implies that).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 20, 2016, 05:27:51 PM
Even as someone who really likes the new album, I would prefer they just focus on the music and not dwell on the TA universe in other ways than the album as presented.

Absolutely this.  And it has nothing to do with the album.  I listen to DT for new music (the listen implies that).

Ok, but this isn't going to take anything away from what DT are doing. DT are contracting other people to do the multimedia stuff, so they can focus purely on the music. Not sure what the harm is in that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on March 20, 2016, 05:32:01 PM
I'm interested in the universe. Because it'd all seem like a waste to have a map that big, with the story taking place in only a section of it.

There's a lot they can expand upon, I'd like to check out the book. Hell, I even bought the Terra Incognita books to go along with the CDs. Also had to buy the Clockwork Angels book, which isn't a bad read. As long as JP collaborates with a good established writer, I have faith this will be interesting.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on March 20, 2016, 10:39:46 PM
There are so many DT threads that it is hard to know if this is floating around here already:
DREAM THEATER Keyboardist Says His Relationship With JOHN PETRUCCI Was 'Solidified' During Making Of 'The Astonishing' (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-keyboardist-says-his-relationship-with-john-petrucci-was-solidified-during-making-of-the-astonishing/)

TBH, I don't like the excerpts on the site.
Quote
Wow, it would be really cool if Jordan and I could sit down just together alone, without anybody else there, and just write this music

Also didn't care for
Quote
When I was brought into the band, I was brought in because John Petrucci really needed to have a writing partner. He was basically doing it by himself, for the most part

Seems like a slap to the current band and then to Sherinian, Myung and Portnoy.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 20, 2016, 10:51:51 PM
I don't see how it could be a slap to other members of the band if it turns out that it is actually the real case. Credit should be given where credit is due.

It's like saying that if The Beatles went the way of crediting their songwriting then to "The Beatles" and then later came out with an admission that most of the songs were actually Lennon-McCartney, it would be slap to George and Ringo.

What is more interesting to me is why they never did give credit where credit is due back then. What internal dynamics made them credit songwriting to Dream Theater when Petrucci and Rudess were actually doing most of the writing,
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on March 20, 2016, 11:53:53 PM
Having gone through this (as many others have I'm sure), the idea of credit on songwriting is slippery.  But we aren't even talking about credit.  We are talking about contributions and working relationships.

The most important part is usually the spark.  Coming up with the hook or theme or intro or big riff.  And then you can have somebody that is a co-writer.  They can be an equal or just 2nd strongest writer.  This usually adds some magic that neither person can get alone.

Now you had MP that acted as a sounding board / arranger.  And what I always hear about Myung is he comes up with some great parts, but isn't great at completing a song by himself.  Well, those are important contributions nevertheless.  Arguing about credit as to whether that drum part is worth 5% or 10% is purely for the financial part of the arrangement.  And it might have been 5% of the perspiration, but some could argue that it took the song from great to classic.

But they are talking about cutting Mangini and Myung out of the majority of the creation process.  And LaBrie nearly from the beginning.  The first thing I recall during the MP exit was how he was holding back everybody from contributing and now they could finally be a real band again.  Where Myung could give his one crazy part and they'd accept it instead of scolding him for not having it more developed.  But then I read that not only are they not doing that, but it seems even less band oriented than before.  And it doesn't sound like it will be that way for just this one album.  That doesn't sound promising.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 21, 2016, 12:39:41 AM
I believe the opposite. By starting individual songwriting credit, it would encourage members to contribute more. The Astonishing is a special case because from the start, it is JP's baby. I am pretty sure this is clear with the members, and I think the idea of finally being recognized for their contributions led JR and JP to compose some of their finest work in DT (a 2+ hour musical with recurring themes is not a mean feat). By starting this trend, I am thinking that the other band members would be more proactive in composition in the next album because they now decided that they would be individually recognized, not lumped under DT even if you wrote 90% of the song.

Individual songwriting credit never stopped bands from producing great music. Queen. The Eagles. Haken. Steven Wilson gets all the songwriting credit even if Guthrie Govan writes all his guitar parts. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on March 21, 2016, 12:50:44 AM
You keep getting hung up on credit.  That's not what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 21, 2016, 12:55:09 AM
Yeah, I pretty much agree with most of what you said, except I think the next album will include songwriting by JM/Mike. I don't think JP/Jordan are going into 'dictator' mode.

Another thing Jordan confirmed, which doesn't appear as an excerpt, is that the book is already in the works. He mentions it at the 10 minute mark. I know there was already mention of a book on the works in the recent Yahoo article, but it's nice getting the statement from a direct source.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 21, 2016, 01:59:08 AM
You keep getting hung up on credit.  That's not what I'm talking about.

I think the credit and the contributions you are talking about come hand in hand. I think what JR is saying is that for the most part, most of the songwriting contributions are by JP and JR since he came onboard. It was just never reflected in the songwriting credits (which is why I keep on bring up that part). TA is just more transparent about that.

It's not like JP and JR wrote MM and JM's parts. They sent the music to them with just keys, guitars and a click track. They contributed all of their parts to the song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on March 21, 2016, 02:11:57 AM
If Myung and Mangini wrote their own parts, then they should get writers credit.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 21, 2016, 03:22:36 AM
If Myung and Mangini wrote their own parts, then they should get writers credit.

So Ringo Starr should be given writers credit in all Beatles songs? Marco Minnemann, Guthrie Govan in Steven Wilson's solo albums?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on March 21, 2016, 04:03:55 AM
If Myung and Mangini wrote their own parts, then they should get writers credit.

So Ringo Starr should be given writers credit in all Beatles songs? Marco Minnemann, Guthrie Govan in Steven Wilson's solo albums?

If they write their own parts?  Of course.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on March 21, 2016, 04:16:28 AM
Having gone through this (as many others have I'm sure), the idea of credit on songwriting is slippery.  But we aren't even talking about credit.  We are talking about contributions and working relationships.

The most important part is usually the spark.  Coming up with the hook or theme or intro or big riff.  And then you can have somebody that is a co-writer.  They can be an equal or just 2nd strongest writer.  This usually adds some magic that neither person can get alone.

Now you had MP that acted as a sounding board / arranger.  And what I always hear about Myung is he comes up with some great parts, but isn't great at completing a song by himself.  Well, those are important contributions nevertheless.  Arguing about credit as to whether that drum part is worth 5% or 10% is purely for the financial part of the arrangement.  And it might have been 5% of the perspiration, but some could argue that it took the song from great to classic.

But they are talking about cutting Mangini and Myung out of the majority of the creation process.  And LaBrie nearly from the beginning.  The first thing I recall during the MP exit was how he was holding back everybody from contributing and now they could finally be a real band again.  Where Myung could give his one crazy part and they'd accept it instead of scolding him for not having it more developed.  But then I read that not only are they not doing that, but it seems even less band oriented than before.  And it doesn't sound like it will be that way for just this one album.  That doesn't sound promising.

I'm completely with you on that, CalvinS and I had already mentioned my worries as regards the exclusion of the other guys from the writing process before.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 21, 2016, 06:00:59 AM
Pretty sure the first two albums after Portnoy quit were written as a band - just with A Dramatic Turn Of Events without Mangini.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on March 21, 2016, 06:17:58 AM
Songwriting credit almost always goes to the person or persons who wrote the melodies and/or arrangement.  Things like solos, fills, etc. are, in simple terms, considered embellishment, and not part of the songwriting process from a credit standpoint, in most cases. Like it or not, it's the way it usually is.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 21, 2016, 06:19:04 AM
Yup. We covered this in music business. Drum parts don't count as songwriting.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on March 21, 2016, 06:21:25 AM
I think I've commented on this subject before, so I won't bore anyone with a detailed recap, but I personally don't have a problem with Petrucci and Rudess writing all of the songs by themselves. Most bands just have one or two primary composers, as far as I know. Also, I could be missing something here, but I don't get the sense that anyone is banned from writing; rather, LaBrie, Mangini, and Myung just aren't that interested in doing so.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on March 21, 2016, 07:04:47 AM
I like how Jordan continues to be so open in interviews lately about song writing credit, who actually writes in DT present and past. It's refreshing to hear him be so honest about it and also entertaining to see how people react.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on March 21, 2016, 11:43:22 AM
Still loving the music but I can't connect with the story at all.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Wither on March 21, 2016, 11:48:20 AM
I don't know about you guys, but when I heard this album, I immediately thought about Ayren's Final Experiment.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on March 21, 2016, 11:52:51 AM
Still loving the music but I can't connect with the story at all.

The story is okay imo, but I don't really care about it. I listen to music for the music, if I wanted a top notch story, I'd watch a series or read a book.  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on March 21, 2016, 12:40:43 PM
Still loving the music but I can't connect with the story at all.

The story is okay imo, but I don't really care about it. I listen to music for the music, if I wanted a top notch story, I'd watch a series or read a book.  :tup

Agreed. It's the music that matters most.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on March 21, 2016, 05:28:37 PM
Songwriting credit almost always goes to the person or persons who wrote the melodies and/or arrangement.  Things like solos, fills, etc. are, in simple terms, considered embellishment, and not part of the songwriting process from a credit standpoint, in most cases. Like it or not, it's the way it usually is.
Songwriting credit is left up to those that decide the credit.  Anything other than appropriate credit discourages participation.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on March 21, 2016, 06:36:37 PM
Songwriting credit almost always goes to the person or persons who wrote the melodies and/or arrangement.  Things like solos, fills, etc. are, in simple terms, considered embellishment, and not part of the songwriting process from a credit standpoint, in most cases. Like it or not, it's the way it usually is.
Songwriting credit is left up to those that decide the credit.  Anything other than appropriate credit discourages participation.
Yes, but what is appropriate? Most people don't consider coming up with drum parts writing-credits-worthy.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on March 21, 2016, 08:12:31 PM
Bingo, which is why credit is almost never given for stuff like that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 22, 2016, 07:43:54 AM
If Myung and Mangini wrote their own parts, then they should get writers credit.

So Ringo Starr should be given writers credit in all Beatles songs? Marco Minnemann, Guthrie Govan in Steven Wilson's solo albums?

If they write their own parts?  Of course.

Yeah, I agree with that. For me, the chord progressions and melodies are no more important than the drumming beats or rhythmic accents. The notion of the melody being the most important part of a composition is silly to me. Whoever contributed a written part should get credited for writing (just as you'd expect whoever contributed a recorded part should get credited for recording).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 22, 2016, 09:15:33 AM
Depends.  In a lot of bands, if a drummer comes in with a cool beat, and a song ends up being written around it, the drummer gets writing credit.  If, say, the guitarist comes in with the song, and the drummer creates a beat after the fact that fits the song, the drummer usually does not get credit.  That is how it usually works.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on March 22, 2016, 11:24:07 AM
These types of arguments have broken up a LOT of great bands. I wish more of them would split the $ diplomatically.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 22, 2016, 11:51:20 AM
These types of arguments have broken up a LOT of great bands. I wish more of them would split the $ diplomatically.

U2. Split the money 25%. Same 4 guys since 1976.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on March 22, 2016, 12:02:53 PM
These types of arguments have broken up a LOT of great bands. I wish more of them would split the $ diplomatically.

U2. Split the money 25%. Same 4 guys since 1976.

Rush did the same thing for 41 years with the same three guys splitting their cut evenly every time, no matter what.

I can understand someone not wanting to do that if they are doing all or most of the heavy lifting from a songwriting standpoint, however.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 22, 2016, 12:17:20 PM
These types of arguments have broken up a LOT of great bands. I wish more of them would split the $ diplomatically.

U2. Split the money 25%. Same 4 guys since 1976.

Rush did the same thing for 41 years with the same three guys splitting their cut evenly every time, no matter what.

I can understand someone not wanting to do that if they are doing all or most of the heavy lifting from a songwriting standpoint, however.

I can understand that too  But what I think about is, what is more important?  Everyone getting a cut and being happy and able to continue working together for many years (increasing the amount of money you make through longevity at least) or paying out based on creditting and risk unhappy band members and/or money in the long term because the band may break up.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on March 22, 2016, 12:24:49 PM
I think that is easy to say in hindsight, but how many bands actually persevere and stay together over the long haul?  Not many, percentage wise.  For every successful band, there are 20 that failed miserably, and if you are a prolific songwriter, I can see wanting full credit, that way the money train keeps rolling in once said band bites the dust, especially since that is their full time job.  Trust me, if you were in a band and doing all or most of the writing, I doubt you'd want to share the songwriting royalties with those who are doing little or nothing in that regard.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 22, 2016, 12:31:55 PM
Yea, I posed it as a question not really how I feel.  I am no songwriter or artist and I can easily see why the main creator would want their money.  But I also can see how someone would rather keep the band going as well. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on March 22, 2016, 01:34:48 PM
Once a band is filthy rich though, there is no more need to continue with that douchebaggery. See: Ward, Bill . . . or Ozzy taking credit for writing songs his guitar players wrote. Dio was also a douche in this regard (anyone seen the recent Vivian Campbell interview)? No matter how rich a lot of these guys get, they hate to split a penny.  :tdwn
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 22, 2016, 02:07:50 PM
Not sharing credit with someone who didn't actually write the song =/= douchebaggery.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SchecterShredder on March 22, 2016, 02:14:00 PM
These types of arguments have broken up a LOT of great bands. I wish more of them would split the $ diplomatically.

U2. Split the money 25%. Same 4 guys since 1976.

Actually U2 split the money 20% each, the four members and the manager. They're probably the exception though in the industry.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on March 22, 2016, 02:32:24 PM
The credit option is an interesting angle.

But for the record, my original comment had nothing to do with royalties and songwriting percentages.  It was the idea that there seems to be an exuberance for purposefully cutting the rest of the band out of the process.  From what we've been told, it isn't that Myung has no ideas, but that his ideas are more sections and parts than fully developed ideas.  Mangini, I'm at a loss for what his writing process is.  They made a big deal out of jamming ideas of each other during the drummer auditions, so it would be hard to say he can't be there adding to the spark.  Why, as Jordan put it, minimize the writing sources?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 22, 2016, 02:47:09 PM
From what we've been told, it isn't that Myung has no ideas, but that his ideas are more sections and parts than fully developed ideas.

That is my understanding as well.  And it is typical in a band for there to be a couple of guys that are like that.  And it is also typical that one of those guys is often the bassist.  :lol

Mangini, I'm at a loss for what his writing process is.  They made a big deal out of jamming ideas of each other during the drummer auditions, so it would be hard to say he can't be there adding to the spark.  Why, as Jordan put it, minimize the writing sources?

Not sure what his m.o. is for writing.  But I get the sense that (1) he isn't and has never really been a proactive songwriter.  At his level, I'm sure he could write and/or compose music if he wanted to, but I just don't get the sense that he has ever really wanted to in any of the bands/projects he has been in.  (2) He seems to be a pretty deferential guy.  That came through in the audition videos, and I have seen that thread run through things he has said in interviews and social media posts since then.  Of course, it could be that the editing in the audition videos made it seem that he is more deferential than he actually is and that I am now just reading that into other things he says.  But that's my perception anyway.

As for what was revealed in the audition videos about the writing process and what they were looking for, I have a couple of thoughts:  (1) They wanted someone who can follow along with them jamming because that is how they like to write, but that does not necessarily mean that they want/expect the drummer to do more than create drum parts as they are doing that.  Or maybe (2) That is what they were looking for at the time, but the writing process has changed/evolved significantly with Mangini in the band and Portnoy out, simply by virtue of the fact that they wrote most of the music for ADTOE without the new drummer just because that felt right at the time, and maybe that took them in a different direction that JP realized he liked.  And then, two albums later, the inspiration struck for him to sequester himself and Jordan to write TA as a duo.  So it is possible that maybe despite what they thought they were looking for, the writing process organically evolved in a different direction after they actually brought Mangini into the band.  Of course, both of these theories are pure speculation on my part, but either seems like it could be perfectly legit.

In any case, when I see them in May, I am going to try to do my best to remember to discuss this with them and try to get more of a handle on the nuts and bolts of their writing process, and will share whatever I can about whatever I learn. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on March 22, 2016, 04:06:49 PM
Not sharing credit with someone who didn't actually write the song =/= douchebaggery.

Right, I was mostly referring to ones who behave like Ozzy and Dio.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 22, 2016, 04:24:22 PM
If Myung and Mangini wrote their own parts, then they should get writers credit.

So Ringo Starr should be given writers credit in all Beatles songs? Marco Minnemann, Guthrie Govan in Steven Wilson's solo albums?

If they write their own parts?  Of course.

Yeah, I agree with that. For me, the chord progressions and melodies are no more important than the drumming beats or rhythmic accents. The notion of the melody being the most important part of a composition is silly to me. Whoever contributed a written part should get credited for writing (just as you'd expect whoever contributed a recorded part should get credited for recording).

So if I write a full song, but get sessionists to "write" their parts becausr I know nothing about drums or bass, they should get songwruting credit?

I think I would only be amenable to "arranged by"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 22, 2016, 04:34:47 PM
The credit option is an interesting angle.

But for the record, my original comment had nothing to do with royalties and songwriting percentages.  It was the idea that there seems to be an exuberance for purposefully cutting the rest of the band out of the process.  From what we've been told, it isn't that Myung has no ideas, but that his ideas are more sections and parts than fully developed ideas.  Mangini, I'm at a loss for what his writing process is.  They made a big deal out of jamming ideas of each other during the drummer auditions, so it would be hard to say he can't be there adding to the spark.  Why, as Jordan put it, minimize the writing sources?

But if we go by the statements JR is making, the two-man JP-JR songwriting tandem may actually be the more accurate description of how they have been writing all these years. They were just more transparent this time.

Mangini, on the writing of DT, said that JP and JR's ideas come so fast that before he can think of a melody, the guys usually already get something written down. Mangini did offer suggestions on breakdowns, because JR loves how he thinks in big chunks (19/6 instead of small 4/4 and 3/4 combos). For example, MM if I remember correctly, came up with the odd beat in the " mothers for their children..." part in IT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on March 22, 2016, 04:35:48 PM
Depends.  In a lot of bands, if a drummer comes in with a cool beat, and a song ends up being written around it, the drummer gets writing credit.  If, say, the guitarist comes in with the song, and the drummer creates a beat after the fact that fits the song, the drummer usually does not get credit.  That is how it usually works.
Flawless logic right there. I also think that's exactly how it works.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on March 22, 2016, 05:30:08 PM
In any case, when I see them in May, I am going to try to do my best to remember to discuss this with them and try to get more of a handle on the nuts and bolts of their writing process, and will share whatever I can about whatever I learn.

Cool.  I don't like drilling down too deep (publicly) because they can do whatever they want.  I have my theory on Mangini as well, but it really doesn't matter in the end.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 22, 2016, 08:07:25 PM
So if I write a full song, but get sessionists to "write" their parts becausr I know nothing about drums or bass, they should get songwruting credit?

I think I would only be amenable to "arranged by"
If you 'know nothing' about drums/bass, and those were part of the song, then you didn't write a full song - you wrote the majority of the song, at most. So yeah, sessionists should get songwriting credit (from my perspective).

That said, I never understood completely what "arrangements by" means while reading albums credits, so maybe an 'arranging' credit is the way to credit those sessionists. Still, sounds like an 'honorable mention' to me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 23, 2016, 12:03:08 AM
There's a difference between adding/writing a part of a song, and writing a part of the song that is crucial and distinctive enough to the song to be a part of the copyrighted composition.
Drums rarely count (in the legal sense) because their purpose is largely to keep the beat of a song, and is not usually an essential and unique enough component. Does Phil Rudd deserve a writing credit for playing a basic 4/4 beat to every single AC/DC song? Where do we draw the line? Even though that's a more extreme case, I'd say there are very few times the drums count for enough to deserve credit, regardless of how intricate or difficult they may be.

Copyright is really about who created the bare essence of a song. Whether DT want to credit the whole out of diplomacy, or credit people individually, doesn't make a difference to me. We know every member of the band has contributed their own part to the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on March 23, 2016, 08:11:02 AM
For the first time in DT history watch a band member eating and drinking for 9 minutes straight !!! :rollin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NnLo-ihSF8
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 23, 2016, 08:15:36 AM
:clap:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on March 23, 2016, 08:15:41 AM
For the first time in DT history watch a band member eating and drinking for 9 minutes straight !!! :rollin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NnLo-ihSF8

At 2.20 the translator translating an elder man: "he met Kevin Moore"
JLB: "we met Kevin Moore too"

hahahahahahahahahaha
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on March 23, 2016, 08:23:52 AM
Sorry guys byt Mangini's burp at 7:51 is priceless  :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 23, 2016, 09:20:01 AM
There's a difference between adding/writing a part of a song, and writing a part of the song that is crucial and distinctive enough to the song to be a part of the copyrighted composition.
Drums rarely count (in the legal sense) because their purpose is largely to keep the beat of a song, and is not usually an essential and unique enough component. Does Phil Rudd deserve a writing credit for playing a basic 4/4 beat to every single AC/DC song? Where do we draw the line? Even though that's a more extreme case, I'd say there are very few times the drums count for enough to deserve credit, regardless of how intricate or difficult they may be.

Copyright is really about who created the bare essence of a song. Whether DT want to credit the whole out of diplomacy, or credit people individually, doesn't make a difference to me. We know every member of the band has contributed their own part to the album.

Yup, all of that.  This is an OLD (and somewhat obscure to most) example, but it was a very clear one to me that taught me about songwriting credit a long time ago.  Look at track #4 here:  https://www.allmusic.com/album/contagious-mw0000196388  Jimmy DeGrasso (drummer; you probably know his name from playing in Megadeth later on) is credited as a songwriter on this song and only one other one on the album.  The reason he is credited on this track is that he brought in that cool rock shuffle beat, and guitarist Dave Meniketti and bassist Phil Kennemore then came up with the riffs and chord progressions based on that beat, and they wrote the song around it.  That, to me, is a good example of where a drummer who does not write riffs or chord progressions and does not actively participate much in the arranging gets song writing credit.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on March 23, 2016, 10:12:24 AM
For those in the know, how does it work for some talentless ho like Britney Spears who has never written a note but makes millions? Is the contract based around "performer" royalties, or what?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on March 23, 2016, 10:36:56 AM
The Mangini gives no fucks about anyone or anything.

He just eats.

That's the dream.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SchecterShredder on March 23, 2016, 12:49:29 PM
For those in the know, how does it work for some talentless ho like Britney Spears who has never written a note but makes millions? Is the contract based around "performer" royalties, or what?

In many cases (especially in pop) the songs are written by an individual or group, then sold to the artist for a 1 time fee at which point the writers lose all rights to future royalties.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 23, 2016, 12:53:15 PM
For those in the know, how does it work for some talentless ho like Britney Spears who has never written a note but makes millions? Is the contract based around "performer" royalties, or what?

In many cases (especially in pop) the songs are written by an individual or group, then sold to the artist for a 1 time fee at which point the writers lose all rights to future royalties.

Why would they do that?  Seems like there's a large potential of money to be made by not selling your rights to a pop artist.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on March 23, 2016, 12:57:24 PM
Why would they do that?  Seems like there's a large potential of money to be made by not selling your rights to a pop artist.

Because making a large sum from Britney, Bieber or the latest chart topper is more than making a percentage of some semi-pop star.

It is kind of like the 10% of lots is better than 100% of nothing idiom.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SchecterShredder on March 23, 2016, 12:57:54 PM
For those in the know, how does it work for some talentless ho like Britney Spears who has never written a note but makes millions? Is the contract based around "performer" royalties, or what?

In many cases (especially in pop) the songs are written by an individual or group, then sold to the artist for a 1 time fee at which point the writers lose all rights to future royalties.


Why would they do that?  Seems like there's a large potential of money to be made by not selling your rights to a pop artist.

That one's pretty easy. I can write a really great song and record it in my basement no problem, but almost nobody would hear it and I make nothing. If I take that same song and sell it to Taylor Swift then I get paid for the song. Sure, she gets the fame and credit, but I still get paid as a musician. It's not ideal, but that's the way it works for  a lot of professional musicians.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SchecterShredder on March 23, 2016, 01:00:57 PM
For those in the know, how does it work for some talentless ho like Britney Spears who has never written a note but makes millions? Is the contract based around "performer" royalties, or what?

In many cases (especially in pop) the songs are written by an individual or group, then sold to the artist for a 1 time fee at which point the writers lose all rights to future royalties.

Why would they do that?  Seems like there's a large potential of money to be made by not selling your rights to a pop artist.

Works the same for photography. You can put it out there on websites like Stocksy or SmugMug and get paid a small amount for its use.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on March 23, 2016, 01:11:45 PM
People sometimes make poor decisions with their songwriting as well.  Too attached to their own work like it is their ticket to fame.  That's true for so few people and sometimes it is just the luck of events out of your control.

Some that won't give up the song for that local entrepreneur to use in their TV commercial or the YouTube X-Games bike sensation.  "No way.  That's my best song. That's for my breakout album."  Maybe the breakout was all the people talking about it on YouTube because they tuned in to watch the crazy bike gymnastics.  Oh no.  Now you are the X-Games music guy.  You aren't anybody's monkey.  You are more than X-Games tricks.

Get over yourself.  If you don't want to share your music, then expect a long hard road that most likely will lead nowhere.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 23, 2016, 01:17:51 PM
Oh wait, so these song writers are writing songs just in general?  I was thinking the writer was writing it FOR Britney and then selling it to Britney.  If not, then yeah, that's a no brainer take the money and run. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on March 23, 2016, 01:21:31 PM
Well, there are session musicians, they learn a set and fill in for a drummer or guitarist and they don't even know the name of the albums the songs are on. It's a job in the end, you write a song and then you give it away.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 23, 2016, 01:23:14 PM
Meh.

There's a website online called www.sentricmusic.com . You upload music and if a suitable commercial or placement comes up - they can buy your song for that ad or whatever.

I gave up using it myself as I was getting bored of submitting music and getting nothing back.

But yeah . I'd gladly write music for ads or tv shows or whatever and be 100% anonymous.


If I could get a big paycheck every month because I got a piece of music on a commercial or TV show or whatever and nobody knew who I was ? That would be the ultimate.

I don't give a flying crap about being famous.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 23, 2016, 01:23:47 PM
Im not a musician or have links to the business in anyway so I am just ignorant how it all works.  I find it amazing that a session musician wouldn't know who the music is for that they are playing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on March 23, 2016, 01:30:49 PM
My band used to play out with another group whose guitarist wrote stuff for TV. If I remember right, he recorded a bunch of stuff for Spike TV for their promos and whatnot. All these deals can vary, but I think he negotiated a deal where he got paid a certain amount of money every time they aired his work. He had one thing they used to run almost every commercial break, he cleaned up.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on March 23, 2016, 01:32:08 PM
Some of that is just knowing somebody (or somebody that knows a dude that knows a chick)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 23, 2016, 01:32:18 PM
That's the goal.

Write instrumental music or jingles or whatever to order. Work from home.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on March 23, 2016, 01:33:27 PM
Some of that is just knowing somebody (or somebody that knows a dude that knows a chick)

For sure, my buddy totally had a connection at the network and that was the only reason he got the opportunity. He was a good player, but nothing special.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 23, 2016, 01:42:48 PM
The above scenario (i.e. where the writer sells the song, including all rights, to the artist) is very common, for the reasons already stated.  To put one of the reasons that happens slightly differently, some of these writers simply do not have the leverage to insist on retaining rights to the songs.  Think about it.  There are LOTS of song writers out there.  If you wrote a cookie-cutter potential pop hit, but want to retain certain publishing rights, and writer Y out there wrote one and is willing to sell away all rights, whose song is Taylor Swift (or Britney, or whoever) going to buy?

But some artists do write songs and retain the rights.  Go back to the site I posted above.  Actually, here it is:  https://www.allmusic.com/album/contagious-mw0000196388  Look at track #3.  Al Pitrelli was not in the band, but he co-wrote that song.  And Taylor Rhodes shows up on tracks 1, 8, and 9.  He is (was) a professional writer for a lot of bands.  He was not in this band.  But the band and label wanted to use him to try to get some potential "hits."  Or think of a guy like Prince or Bowie, who wrote tons of songs for tons of bands.  Or another professional writer like Desmond Child, who is credited with You Not Me, for example, or who wrote/co-wrote the Scorpions album Humanity: Hour 1, and has done the same for tons of other artists.  There are lots of guys like this.  Sometimes they retain the publishing rights; sometimes not.  It just depends on the contract.  But there is money to be made either way.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on March 23, 2016, 01:44:21 PM
I had a friend that passed on putting out music for BMX promos that would go everywhere. I don't remember my advice to him, but there is a good chance my youth had me telling him "No way dude.  That's selling out."   :lol  Can't remember the exact time I went from protective of copyright to not even caring if the latest hemorrhoid commercial somehow stole my music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on March 23, 2016, 01:49:57 PM
Not that it is a real possibility in my case, but not only do I no longer care about the legal claim, I don't even care about a nod.

But what would bother me is if I was accused of being derivative of a song I wrote because nobody knew I wrote the song.  "Dude, your song on SoundCloud is just a ripoff of that Y&T song (or Metallica song (or Images and Words song)).  Yeah.  I ripped myself off.

Also, the Y&T example is probably yet another reason that Al Pitrelli has managed to achieve what he has.  He might not be Lars Ulrich level fame, but he's doing well.  And it's because he isn't hung up on only putting out the Al Pitrelli Band debut, titled "Mine.  Don't Touch", that is just gonna redefine the music world.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dtrocker25 on March 23, 2016, 07:58:09 PM
This discussion  has drifted  away from The Astonishing it seems
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 23, 2016, 09:06:33 PM
After 90 pages of discussion, I'm surprised we haven't drifted off further. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on March 24, 2016, 12:54:53 AM
The Mangini gives no fucks about anyone or anything.

He just eats.

That's the dream.

In French eating means "manger" spelled "mangeh" and who he eats may be called mangini  :P.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 24, 2016, 06:25:33 AM
The Mangini gives no fucks about anyone or anything.

He just eats.

That's the dream.

In French eating means "manger" spelled "mangeh" and who he eats may be called mangini  :P.

Mangiare means eat in Italian.  It all makes sense now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on March 24, 2016, 07:44:24 AM
A "Making Of" video now up on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65nGsTQSnv8

It's about the making of the visuals for the tour, rather than the recording of the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 24, 2016, 07:45:39 AM
A "Making Of" video now up on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65nGsTQSnv8

It's about the making of the visuals for the tour, rather than the recording of the album.

I don't think that was meant to be released yet as it is now private.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on March 24, 2016, 07:55:50 AM
A "Making Of" video now up on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65nGsTQSnv8

It's about the making of the visuals for the tour, rather than the recording of the album.

I don't think that was meant to be released yet as it is now private.

You're right! I must have been lucky to watch it before they set it as private.

Oh well, I'm sure it will be released in due course. I'll not spoil the surprise.  :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on March 24, 2016, 08:33:47 AM
A "Making Of" video now up on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65nGsTQSnv8

It's about the making of the visuals for the tour, rather than the recording of the album.

I don't think that was meant to be released yet as it is now private.

You're right! I must have been lucky to watch it before they set it as private.

Oh well, I'm sure it will be released in due course. I'll not spoil the surprise.  :)

Man, I got an official email and it is set to private...... >:( >:(
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on March 24, 2016, 05:01:36 PM
Looks like the video is there again, but at this link now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZcT5ECISN4
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 24, 2016, 05:25:24 PM
Some of the visual work was actually really cool in context of the live performance. However, what the video did the most was remind me how awesome TGoM is. The opening three tracks of TA (DotN+DO+TGoM) would probably be among the best 10 songs tbh.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 24, 2016, 05:30:31 PM
For the first time in DT history watch a band member eating and drinking for 9 minutes straight !!! :rollin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NnLo-ihSF8

What is that thing ? Ice Cream and chocolate ?!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Another_Won on March 24, 2016, 08:33:18 PM
For the first time in DT history watch a band member eating and drinking for 9 minutes straight !!! :rollin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NnLo-ihSF8

What is that thing ? Ice Cream and chocolate ?!
:dunno: It's very distracting, but appears to be delicious  :rollin Once you can actually hear some of the other questions and answers, it's very informative. :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chaossystem on March 24, 2016, 08:54:26 PM
Wonder where James and John M. were...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 24, 2016, 11:23:05 PM
Wonder where James and John M. were...
James is to John Petrucci's left. At 9:27 he is asked a question, so you can see him there.
I don't think John Myung is there, though.

Looks like the video is there again, but at this link now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZcT5ECISN4
Great video, thanks. It looks like it was a lot of work to create the visuals and silhouettes (they even had the kids dressed as Xander and Faythe) - to think I was bitching about the visuals in the trailer in January.

I just realized that the European leg has just finished! Hope you European fans had a great time in the shows.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 24, 2016, 11:44:09 PM
I just stumbled upon this recent interview with JP while in Germany (recorded last week, but posted 3 days ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EZRUROF1EE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EZRUROF1EE)

Towards the end, at 18:00, John confirms there will be further shows in South America (yeay!), Australia and Asia. I know it was expected the band would tour those regions later on; still, the way John says so makes it seem like it's officially official.

Most of the interview is about John's guitars and rig. There are some questions about the new album at the beginning, but nothing new.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on March 27, 2016, 09:54:06 AM
Even though I still find hearing the chorus only once in The Road to Revolution to be a major tease, I find that when combining it with 2285 Entr'acte and Moment of Betrayal as a 3-song run, it works really well.  That moment in 2285 Entr'acte when the The Road to Revolution melody is playing by the strings is freaking stellar (around 1:15, I think).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on March 27, 2016, 10:20:33 AM
Even though I still find hearing the chorus only once in The Road to Revolution to be a major tease, I find that when combining it with 2285 Entr'acte and Moment of Betrayal as a 3-song run, it works really well.  That moment in 2285 Entr'acte when the The Road to Revolution melody is playing by the strings is freaking stellar (around 1:15, I think).

Agreed about the tease. I think the best RtR chorus is in the middle of BCYHM
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 28, 2016, 04:35:50 PM
I was confined in the hospital for a week and TA was in my regular rotation to keep me from being bored. Yesterday I played it out loud because I was alone in the room, and I found myself singing along to the whole musical.  :rollin Looks like I already memorized this album by heart.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on March 28, 2016, 04:49:51 PM
I was confined in the hospital for a week and TA was in my regular rotation to keep me from being bored. Yesterday I played it out loud because I was alone in the room, and I found myself singing along to the whole musical.  :rollin Looks like I already memorized this album by heart.

Yikes! Hope you are feeling better.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 28, 2016, 04:55:07 PM
I was confined in the hospital for a week and TA was in my regular rotation to keep me from being bored. Yesterday I played it out loud because I was alone in the room, and I found myself singing along to the whole musical.  :rollin Looks like I already memorized this album by heart.

Yikes! Hope you are feeling better.

I am home now, thanks. :) I had a nasty case of ischiorectal abscess.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on March 28, 2016, 05:09:04 PM
I am home now, thanks. :) I had a nasty case of ischiorectal abscess.

Man that sucks, good to know that you are well now.  :tup Those things can spread real fast.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 28, 2016, 05:16:30 PM
I am home now, thanks. :) I had a nasty case of ischiorectal abscess.

Man that sucks, good to know that you are well now.  :tup Those things can spread real fast.

Yikes, had something very similar myself in the fall.  Needed surgery, but luckily it was outpatient for me, but man that is such an area that really sucks to get surgery
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 28, 2016, 05:38:09 PM
I am home now, thanks. :) I had a nasty case of ischiorectal abscess.

Man that sucks, good to know that you are well now.  :tup Those things can spread real fast.

Yikes, had something very similar myself in the fall.  Needed surgery, but luckily it was outpatient for me, but man that is such an area that really sucks to get surgery

I also thought it would be outpatient for me, then they discovered that is it one finger deep. OUCH. Which is why it took me a week to recover.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on March 28, 2016, 06:47:26 PM
I'm really into Act of Faythe now. Really good ballad, with nice vocals in the vein of Anna Lee with Lifting Shadows.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on March 28, 2016, 07:02:19 PM
I'm really into Act of Faythe now. Really good ballad, with nice vocals in the vein of Anna Lee with Lifting Shadows.

Act of Faythe is growing a bit. It's not at the same level of more intense songs, but I think it's a par-for-the-course ballad.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on March 29, 2016, 02:54:33 AM
I'm really into Act of Faythe now. Really good ballad, with nice vocals in the vein of Anna Lee with Lifting Shadows.
¨

Act of Faythe is awesome. It's been on of my favourites on Act I since my first listen and is easily the best ballad on the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 29, 2016, 06:15:19 AM
Yea, I really enjoy Act of Faythe.  It wasn't a song that hit me at first, but after many listens I have grown to really like it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tomislav95 on March 29, 2016, 06:44:06 AM
Yea, I really enjoy Act of Faythe.  It wasn't a song that hit me at first, but after many listens I have grown to really like it.
This. I guess I couldn't get over 'my music player' part but rest of the chorus is beautiful.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on March 29, 2016, 06:45:02 AM
That song is beautiful and touching, it contains my favorite piano theme on the album and LaBrie's vocals are top notch.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 29, 2016, 06:48:55 AM
Yea, I really enjoy Act of Faythe.  It wasn't a song that hit me at first, but after many listens I have grown to really like it.
This. I guess I couldn't get over 'my music player' part but rest of the chorus is beautiful.

My first listen I kind of giggled at that line, but now it's actually one of my favorite parts.  Sure the lyrics are cheesy, but it's really awesome.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on March 29, 2016, 08:30:13 AM
Yea, I really enjoy Act of Faythe.  It wasn't a song that hit me at first, but after many listens I have grown to really like it.
This. I guess I couldn't get over 'my music player' part but rest of the chorus is beautiful.
My first listen I kind of giggled at that line, but now it's actually one of my favorite parts.  Sure the lyrics are cheesy, but it's really awesome.
That part brought tears to my eyes on first listen. So, to each one's own, I guess.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on March 29, 2016, 08:33:36 AM
Listening to my abridged CD today, wow...the hi-hat and cymbals...yea they're pretty flat.  Didn't notice that until I read it here.  Are the HD tracks any better?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 29, 2016, 08:51:12 AM
Yea, I really enjoy Act of Faythe.  It wasn't a song that hit me at first, but after many listens I have grown to really like it.
This. I guess I couldn't get over 'my music player' part but rest of the chorus is beautiful.
My first listen I kind of giggled at that line, but now it's actually one of my favorite parts.  Sure the lyrics are cheesy, but it's really awesome.
That part brought tears to my eyes on first listen. So, to each one's own, I guess.

As somebody who is plugged in to my music player almost half of the day, that line got me on first listen, as well.

Listening to my abridged CD today, wow...the hi-hat and cymbals...yea they're pretty flat.  Didn't notice that until I read it here.  Are the HD tracks any better?

What do you mean flat? They are a bit low in the mix.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on March 29, 2016, 09:14:38 AM

What do you mean flat? They are a bit low in the mix.



They are not just low to me, there's not much high frequency to them.  The cymbals on OTBOA for example sound much brighter.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Hypnotoad on March 29, 2016, 09:51:51 AM
I have the HD Tracks version on my Fiio X3. I tweaked the high end a little on the EQ and I have to say it sounds stunning. The cymbals/hi-hat are really apparent now and I can hear all the subtleties in MM's playing
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: genome on March 29, 2016, 10:17:41 AM
I haven't been on in a few weeks, so this may have been spoken about... but can we give some love to the solo in A Better Life, one of the best on the album and seems a little underrated.

Wonderful solo.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on March 29, 2016, 10:39:28 AM
I haven't been on in a few weeks, so this may have been spoken about... but can we give some love to the solo in A Better Life, one of the best on the album and seems a little underrated.

Wonderful solo.

I've seen it mentioned in a couple of threads. You're right - it's top notch. I love the legato runs. :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 29, 2016, 10:52:18 AM
I haven't been on in a few weeks, so this may have been spoken about... but can we give some love to the solo in A Better Life, one of the best on the album and seems a little underrated.

Wonderful solo.
Yup.  Very good.  There is a thread for that song in particular.  The whole song is top notch.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BelichickFan on March 29, 2016, 12:17:10 PM
I hate to sound like a crazed fanboy but the biggest problem I have with The Astonishing is if I just put it on to listen to one track, I am unable to turn it off and am "stuck" listening to the rest.  I'm actually trying to take a break until I see them in a month but guess what's on right now ?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 29, 2016, 12:51:55 PM
...but guess what's on right now ?

Sesame's Street, "C is for Cookie, and other Hits from the Hood"?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 29, 2016, 01:05:19 PM
For me it's different. I adore the album, but I've listened to it only three times in full (even though I remember many moments off of it by heart). It's not because I can't find the time, it's just that I'm afraid of overplaying it. I have this fear with many other albums and I don't think I've listened to any one Dream Theater album in full for more than 10 times. Is this an unfounded fear?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 29, 2016, 01:08:42 PM
I do this too. I try not to over listen to new albums.

Then when you come back to it down the road - it still sounds fresh.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 29, 2016, 01:10:25 PM
For me it's different. I adore the album, but I've listened to it only three times in full (even though I remember many moments off of it by heart). It's not because I can't find the time, it's just that I'm afraid of overplaying it. I have this fear with many other albums and I don't think I've listened to any one Dream Theater album in full for more than 10 times. Is this an unfounded fear?

Have you ever gotten to the point where you over played an album before?  The fear is legit, but I think for me it requires many more than 10 listens. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BelichickFan on March 29, 2016, 01:12:21 PM
For me it's different. I adore the album, but I've listened to it only three times in full (even though I remember many moments off of it by heart). It's not because I can't find the time, it's just that I'm afraid of overplaying it. I have this fear with many other albums and I don't think I've listened to any one Dream Theater album in full for more than 10 times. Is this an unfounded fear?
I'm absolutely in fear of overplaying it.  Which is why I'm actively trying to listen to other stuff.  But sometimes I really want to listen to a particular track and I am unable to turn it off.  Thankfully, I haven't become remotely sick of it yet.  I wish I knew how often I'd listened to it.  It has to be going on 100 or so I would think.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on March 29, 2016, 05:09:00 PM
I never worry about overplaying something.  If I love something enough that it makes me want to keep listening over and over, I listen over and over.  Most of my favorite albums are ones I listened to to death, and they are still my favorites despite bludgeoning myself with them over and over and over... :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chaossystem on March 29, 2016, 05:24:53 PM
What I've been doing is making playlists where I mix a few songs from The Astonishing with other DT songs from other albums. That way it doesn't get as monotonous or redundant as just listening to it by itself from beginning to end over and over again...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 29, 2016, 05:26:34 PM
I never worry about overplaying something.  If I love something enough that it makes me want to keep listening over and over, I listen over and over.  Most of my favorite albums are ones I listened to to death, and they are still my favorites despite bludgeoning myself with them over and over and over... :lol

But what about the rule of diminishing returns when the mystery of the music is gone (i.e. when you remember everthing about it including the tiny intricacies)? Does that not apply?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 29, 2016, 09:18:03 PM
I never worry about overplaying something.  If I love something enough that it makes me want to keep listening over and over, I listen over and over.  Most of my favorite albums are ones I listened to to death, and they are still my favorites despite bludgeoning myself with them over and over and over... :lol

But what about the rule of diminishing returns when the mystery of the music is gone (i.e. when you remember everthing about it including the tiny intricacies)? Does that not apply?

BETTER TO SAVE THE MYSTERY THAN SURRENDER TO THE SECREEEEEET

But seriously, great music doesn't diminish once the mystery is gone. It remains enjoyable to listen to because it's good. Most of DT's older music still sounds as fresh and exciting to me as the first time I heard it over a decade ago, and I listened to basically nothing else at the time. :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on March 30, 2016, 01:04:03 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qKA_VE-Jme8

 :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 30, 2016, 02:42:04 AM
BETTER TO SAVE THE MYSTERY THAN SURRENDER TO THE SECREEEEEET

 :lol

But seriously, great music doesn't diminish once the mystery is gone. It remains enjoyable to listen to because it's good. Most of DT's older music still sounds as fresh and exciting to me as the first time I heard it over a decade ago, and I listened to basically nothing else at the time. :tup

Good to know. I guess what worried me was some (I think...) scientific studies that basically said that a really new and fresh musical experience will hit you hard the first time, then have diminishing returns like a drug. I guess that's not always applicable.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on March 30, 2016, 04:28:31 AM
I never worry about overplaying something.  If I love something enough that it makes me want to keep listening over and over, I listen over and over.  Most of my favorite albums are ones I listened to to death, and they are still my favorites despite bludgeoning myself with them over and over and over... :lol
This.

But seriously, great music doesn't diminish once the mystery is gone. It remains enjoyable to listen to because it's good. Most of DT's older music still sounds as fresh and exciting to me as the first time I heard it over a decade ago, and I listened to basically nothing else at the time. :tup
And this.

I don't get the whole overplaying thing. Sometimes I get pretty obsessive about an album for a while so I listen absolutely loads. That obsession eventually wears off, and of course I only sometimes to listen to the album after that, but that doesn't mean I like it any less. Seems to me that forcing myself to listen to it less early on would eventually just end up with the same result in terms of total listens, and it terms of how much I like it, but I'd be making myself miserable forcing myself to not listen to it. So no thanks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on March 30, 2016, 06:29:40 AM
I used to overplay music like crazy. It took me years before I could feel some songs again. It's such a weird thing, I don't know how to explain it. It never happened with Dream Theater, though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on March 30, 2016, 06:43:11 AM
Even if I overplay an album, it doesn't all of the sudden become bad.  It just makes it to a point where I don't want to listen anymore.  Time heals all wounds and eventually I will want to listen again if it truly was that good.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on March 30, 2016, 07:48:15 AM
Yeah I've had it where I've gone back to albums I didn't like after a long time

and it sounds even worse. :p

The sign of a bad album clearly.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on March 30, 2016, 08:50:56 AM
I used to overplay music like crazy. It took me years before I could feel some songs again. It's such a weird thing, I don't know how to explain it. It never happened with Dream Theater, though.

I find that music that takes a few listens to really sink in and become favorites can't be overplayed.
Music that hits you immediately on the other hand often tends to be possible to overplay and get really tired of.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 30, 2016, 08:52:40 AM
I used to overplay music like crazy. It took me years before I could feel some songs again. It's such a weird thing, I don't know how to explain it. It never happened with Dream Theater, though.

I find that music that takes a few listens to really sink in and become favorites can't be overplayed.
Music that hits you immediately on the other hand often tends to be possible to overplay and get really tired of.

For me I find there's absolutely zero correlation between how long it takes to like a song and its longevity.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on March 30, 2016, 08:58:57 AM
I never worry about overplaying something.  If I love something enough that it makes me want to keep listening over and over, I listen over and over.  Most of my favorite albums are ones I listened to to death, and they are still my favorites despite bludgeoning myself with them over and over and over... :lol
This.

But seriously, great music doesn't diminish once the mystery is gone. It remains enjoyable to listen to because it's good. Most of DT's older music still sounds as fresh and exciting to me as the first time I heard it over a decade ago, and I listened to basically nothing else at the time. :tup
And this.

I don't get the whole overplaying thing. Sometimes I get pretty obsessive about an album for a while so I listen absolutely loads. That obsession eventually wears off, and of course I only sometimes to listen to the album after that, but that doesn't mean I like it any less. Seems to me that forcing myself to listen to it less early on would eventually just end up with the same result in terms of total listens, and it terms of how much I like it, but I'd be making myself miserable forcing myself to not listen to it. So no thanks.
^All of that.  "Overplaying" is generally not an issue.  I mean, as new music comes out, the amount of spins I give a particular disk diminishes just because time is finite and I am spending some of that time on newer stuff.  But that doesn't mean I like the album less.  For example, Six Degrees is still my all time favorite DT album.  When I listen to it, I enjoy it immensely.  During that album cycle, I was obsessed with the album and listened to it nonstop.  The fact that I listen to it less nowadays is not a factor of having overplayed it and its stature being diminished in my eyes.  It is just a factor of DT having released seven more studio albums and several live releases since then, as well as all the other music that has been released since 2002. 

Where I do find that "overplaying" is a bit of an issue for me is with particular songs if I play them in isolation.  For instance, I typically find that if I overplay a lead single from an album before the album has come out, I tend to subconsciously gloss over that song when playing the entire album rather than enjoying the song more fully in context of the album.  I kinda did that with ATBOA and The Enemy Inside where I had played them a LOT before the albums came out, and then would gloss over them a bit initially once the albums finally came out.  But as with any good song, I eventually really came to appreciate both of those on their own merits.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on March 30, 2016, 09:11:21 AM
Agreed with everything you just said bosky, particularly good point about playing individual songs out of context. That's why I similarly try to avoid repeatedly listening to singles in advance of an album release.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BFRedrocks on March 30, 2016, 12:05:54 PM

Where I do find that "overplaying" is a bit of an issue for me is with particular songs if I play them in isolation.  For instance, I typically find that if I overplay a lead single from an album before the album has come out, I tend to subconsciously gloss over that song when playing the entire album rather than enjoying the song more fully in context of the album.  I kinda did that with ATBOA and The Enemy Inside where I had played them a LOT before the albums came out, and then would gloss over them a bit initially once the albums finally came out.  But as with any good song, I eventually really came to appreciate both of those on their own merits.

^^^ This, exactly.  It's happened so often for me in the past that I consciously tried to minimize the number of times I listened to TGOM and MOB before the whole thing came out.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thematt202 on March 30, 2016, 01:51:22 PM
Made myself take a month or so without listening to the album so that I can listen with "fresh ears".  I was a bit apprehensive as the hype isn't there any more, but i just listened to the whole thing and holy shit, it's just perfect.

It makes me sad that they'll likely never make anything like this again.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on March 30, 2016, 02:13:35 PM
Made myself take a month or so without listening to the album so that I can listen with "fresh ears".  I was a bit apprehensive as the hype isn't there any more, but i just listened to the whole thing and holy shit, it's just perfect.

It makes me sad that they'll likely never make anything like this again.

Just be glad that 30 years into their career and on their 13th album they create such a masterpiece...

Not many bands do
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thoughtspart3 on March 30, 2016, 05:13:32 PM
This album is just such a great piece of music.  There are so many strong melodies.  I think the wide variety of sounds and styles make it much stronger than many of their recent releases.  I really agree that the music just pulls you along and it is hard to stop listening.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on March 30, 2016, 09:16:00 PM
Do you think The Astonishing (or "The Gift Of Music") might get nominated for the Grammys next year? Do you think it could win?

From what has been released so far since last Fall (which is when releases start counting), I'm assuming Adele will win 'Album Of The Year' (and 'Song Of The Year' too). From what I've read about it, 25's release was a huge seismic shift in the industry, so it's pretty obvious to me she might be the big winner.

As far as 'rock', I think Coldplay might get something too. The 'metal' field could still be where DT gets nominated, although - having to compete with recent albums by more popular acts (such as Maiden and Megadeth) - I think they have it hard.

Maybe, their 1st grammy could happen through David Campbell - who knows, maybe he could get nominated for 'Best Arrangement' for one of the album's songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on March 30, 2016, 11:15:54 PM
Do you think The Astonishing (or "The Gift Of Music") might get nominated for the Grammys next year? Do you think it could win?
If it depends on its quality, of course! If it depends on its popularity, probably not.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 31, 2016, 08:08:16 AM
Just listened to it again (in one sitting). Still awesome. I noticed how much the use of the orchestra and choir added an extra depth to the album while also highlighting everything else. It never seems tasteless or overbearing, it's really well arranged.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on March 31, 2016, 10:25:17 AM
Do you think The Astonishing (or "The Gift Of Music") might get nominated for the Grammys next year? Do you think it could win?
If it depends on its quality, of course! If it depends on its popularity, probably not.

Well, there's no hope then!  :lol  But yeah it deserves to at least be nominated.

I don't like overplaying something for fear I'll get tired of it.  My wife overplays music and I am so bored with her choices.  I have a lot of music to keep a good variety going.  I'm listening to Chris Isaak today for the first time in at least a year. 

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on March 31, 2016, 11:22:54 AM
I'm starting to hear The Astonishing every now and then, but it's still an absolutely enjoyable experience. Heard it today, last time was past saturday I believe, and I still loved the hell out of it  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on March 31, 2016, 11:24:46 AM
Seeing dparrott's profile picture made me remember being disappointed that the clock tower that is seen in the trailer and the live video for Machine Chatter never came into the story at all and plays no significance. It's featured a decent amount in the trailers and it's never mentioned.

I just remember thinking it was gonna play a huge role.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on March 31, 2016, 01:13:21 PM
Do you think The Astonishing (or "The Gift Of Music") might get nominated for the Grammys next year? Do you think it could win?
Don't think so, son.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on March 31, 2016, 04:20:34 PM
Well, it gets my vote for album of the year.  I don't need to hear anything else.   :P  Adele schmedele!  Let's see her do an album like this!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on March 31, 2016, 05:04:21 PM
Well, it gets my vote for album of the year.  I don't need to hear anything else.   :P  Adele schmedele!  Let's see her do an album like this!

Adele had an album in 2015 though, not 2016.

Also, I wouldn't be so quick to call it album of the year when we're only a quarter of the way through the year. Albums by Haken, Pain of Salvation and Fates Warning are coming up, so the competition will be tough (plus the new Vektor, Gorguts and Watchtower, but they may not be as well appreciated around here as the other three bands).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on March 31, 2016, 05:33:39 PM
This year is gonna be packed with releases from my favourite bands. To be completely honest, as much as I love The Astonishing, I don't see it ending up in the top 3 albums of 2016.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on March 31, 2016, 07:35:06 PM
I currently think The Astonishing is the best album of the millennium, let's see how it'll be after more months.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on April 01, 2016, 03:19:50 AM
Looks like it's not only JLB who got the flu from the tour. From Mike Mangini:

March 28: "Arrived home from the last two shows with the most severe flu/slight walking pneumonia. Nasty bug and Total fatigue. And a special thanks to the fans for an unexpectedly and overwhelming vibe joining in with us for the presentation of the show. That was a great boost for me! So glad to be with family and my own bed !"

March 30: "I love the Bose Mini I got as a gift from Guitar Center from my doing the Drum Off this year. I had the new Disturbed album crunching it up while cleaning the downstairs floors and bathrooms.Heavy Metal motivates me. Kids destroy houses. My flu has been reduced to a minor cough now, so the 7th Gen cleaning spray isn't so bad. I think I'll also finish unpacking from the tour today and organize it all having been on the couch mostly. Thanks for all the well wishes !!"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JRuless on April 01, 2016, 06:10:56 AM
I currently think The Astonishing is the best album of the millennium, let's see how it'll be after more months.

+1 I can't stop listening to it and it's giving me the same feeling as SDOIT did (the first DT album I listened to).  :hefdaddy

So, TA is just totally my cup of tea.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on April 01, 2016, 07:42:50 AM
Seeing dparrott's profile picture made me remember being disappointed that the clock tower that is seen in the trailer and the live video for Machine Chatter never came into the story at all and plays no significance. It's featured a decent amount in the trailers and it's never mentioned.

I just remember thinking it was gonna play a huge role.
Not even in the video projetions during shows? I seem to remember (either in a trailer or in one live YouTube clip) that Xander was inside the clock tower (just like in his picture on the website), so I assumed the clock tower was maybe Arhys' home?

(Having said that, I'm not sure if the tower is in Ravenskill or New Maineland)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on April 01, 2016, 10:35:15 AM
I haven't seen the live show yet apart from videos, so I'm not sure. But I've only seen it for the Machine Chatter video, so I'm not sure. I remember initially I thought Xander was held hostage there by Nefaryus and Daryus, and they had to get him back, but now that's obviously not the case
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 01, 2016, 11:58:27 AM
The ADonishing

(https://orig00.deviantart.net/fd44/f/2016/092/a/e/dontheater_theasdonishing_by_cdrice-d9xfidb.jpg)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on April 01, 2016, 12:23:30 PM
Seeing dparrott's profile picture made me remember being disappointed that the clock tower that is seen in the trailer and the live video for Machine Chatter never came into the story at all and plays no significance. It's featured a decent amount in the trailers and it's never mentioned.

I just remember thinking it was gonna play a huge role.
Not even in the video projetions during shows? I seem to remember (either in a trailer or in one live YouTube clip) that Xander was inside the clock tower (just like in his picture on the website), so I assumed the clock tower was maybe Arhys' home?

(Having said that, I'm not sure if the tower is in Ravenskill or New Maineland)

Can't remember any clock tower from the show.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on April 01, 2016, 04:00:38 PM
The ADonishing

(https://orig00.deviantart.net/fd44/f/2016/092/a/e/dontheater_theasdonishing_by_cdrice-d9xfidb.jpg)
Nice photoshop work. It took me some time to notice.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on April 02, 2016, 05:18:48 AM
Anyone else a little confused over the distances involved in the GNE? Nafaryus talks about "the far off reaches of the land" and so forth but then it seems Faythe can zip back and forth between the palace and Ravenskill like it's nothing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on April 02, 2016, 07:21:38 AM
Anyone else a little confused over the distances involved in the GNE? Nafaryus talks about "the far off reaches of the land" and so forth but then it seems Faythe can zip back and forth between the palace and Ravenskill like it's nothing.

Well, she does take a while to get there. From ALLB to Ravenskill, it turns from night to day.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on April 02, 2016, 11:03:26 AM
Anyone else a little confused over the distances involved in the GNE? Nafaryus talks about "the far off reaches of the land" and so forth but then it seems Faythe can zip back and forth between the palace and Ravenskill like it's nothing.

Well, she does take a while to get there. From ALLB to Ravenskill, it turns from night to day.
Yes, but on the third day she is:

-In her palace during "A New Beginning"
-In Gabriel's hideout (which is probably in Ravenskill) during "The Road To Revolution"*
-In her palace again during "Begin Again"
-In Heaven's Cove during "The Walking Shadow" et al.

So, yeah, she travels a lot al by herself in just one day, I think.

(* that's if Faythe and Gabriel actually meet, and are not just talking on the phone :P)

By the way, www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishing (https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishing) has been updated - the 2 videos now are the 2nd trailer (released 2 weeks ago) and the "The Gift Of Music" clip. Links to various other websites - such as the videogame - have been added at the bottom of the page as well.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on April 02, 2016, 11:32:37 AM
Anyone else a little confused over the distances involved in the GNE? Nafaryus talks about "the far off reaches of the land" and so forth but then it seems Faythe can zip back and forth between the palace and Ravenskill like it's nothing.

Well, she does take a while to get there. From ALLB to Ravenskill, it turns from night to day.
Yes, but on the third day she is:

-In her palace during "A New Beginning"
-In Gabriel's hideout (which is probably in Ravenskill) during "The Road To Revolution"*
-In her palace again during "Begin Again"
-In Heaven's Cove during "The Walking Shadow" et al.

So, yeah, she travels a lot al by herself in just one day, I think.

(* that's if Faythe and Gabriel actually meet, and are not just talking on the phone :P)

It's possible that she is travelling using that hovering thing you see at the end of the LN live video.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on April 02, 2016, 12:01:51 PM
I was convinced that in The Road to Revolution Faythe just shares the news with Gabriel, but the booklet says "Gabriel's hideout" as a location, so they're actually together.

So yeah, she probably has an imperial hovering scooter or something to travel to "Long Island" and reach Ravenskill.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bunceman on April 02, 2016, 01:20:57 PM
DR numbers for my needledrop of the vinyl version.  Offers a bit more dynamic range but nothing astonishing

foobar2000 1.3.1 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2016-04-02 00:25:00

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Dream Theater / The Astonishing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR9       -7.68 dB   -20.06 dB      1:08 01-A1 Descent Of The Nomacs
DR11      -4.09 dB   -16.37 dB      4:46 02-A2 Dystopian Overture
DR11      -3.71 dB   -15.93 dB      3:56 03-A3 The Gift Of Music
DR11      -4.88 dB   -18.79 dB      1:51 04-A4 The Answer
DR11      -3.93 dB   -16.89 dB      4:35 05-A5 A Better Life
DR11      -1.17 dB   -16.80 dB      3:25 06-B1 Lord Nafaryus
DR10      -4.34 dB   -18.36 dB      4:10 07-B2 A Savior In The Square
DR11      -4.24 dB   -17.54 dB      4:15 08-B3 When Your Time Has Come
DR11      -3.86 dB   -20.30 dB      4:55 09-B4 Act Of Faythe
DR10      -4.58 dB   -16.92 dB      3:41 10-C1 Three Days
DR10      -3.63 dB   -20.01 dB      0:41 11-C2 The Hovering Sojourn
DR11      -4.71 dB   -19.03 dB      4:53 12-C3 Brother Can You Hear Me?
DR11      -3.99 dB   -16.39 dB      5:41 13-C4 A Life Left Behind
DR11      -3.88 dB   -18.30 dB      5:55 14-D1 Ravenskill
DR11      -5.44 dB   -19.38 dB      4:27 15-D2 Chosen
DR10      -4.08 dB   -16.58 dB      4:16 16-D3 A Tempting Offer
DR9       -6.55 dB   -20.65 dB      0:47 17-D4 Digital Discord
DR11      -3.15 dB   -19.68 dB      4:09 18-E1 The X Aspect
DR10      -3.61 dB   -16.00 dB      7:33 19-E2 A New Beginning
DR10      -3.72 dB   -16.30 dB      3:30 20-E3 The Road To Revolution
DR10      -4.06 dB   -16.08 dB      2:17 21-F1 2285 Entr'acte
DR10      -4.09 dB   -16.06 dB      6:06 22-F2 Moment Of Betrayal
DR11      -4.08 dB   -20.31 dB      4:14 23-F3 Heaven's Cove
DR11      -4.60 dB   -19.52 dB      3:50 24-F4 Begin Again
DR11      -4.37 dB   -17.75 dB      5:09 25-G1 The Path That Divides
DR10      -5.80 dB   -21.15 dB      0:55 26-G2 Machine Chatter
DR10      -3.68 dB   -16.40 dB      2:55 27-G3 The Walking Shadow
DR10      -3.34 dB   -15.93 dB      3:42 28-G4 My Last Farewell
DR10      -3.59 dB   -16.95 dB      4:04 29-G5 Losing Faythe
DR11      -6.43 dB   -21.57 dB      1:36 30-H1 Whispers On The Wind
DR10      -4.81 dB   -18.13 dB      3:35 31-H2 Hymn Of A Thousand Voices
DR10      -4.25 dB   -16.09 dB      4:08 32-H3 Our New World
DR10      -3.79 dB   -20.26 dB      1:24 33-H4 Power Down
DR10      -3.03 dB   -17.30 dB      5:40 34-H5 Astonishing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  34
Official DR value: DR10

Samplerate:        96000 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   24
Bitrate:           2809 kbps
Codec:             FLAC
================================================================================

 Edit this entry
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bunceman on April 02, 2016, 01:25:31 PM
And some spectrums

(https://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq97/jeremybunce/Astonishing%202.jpg)
(https://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq97/jeremybunce/Astonishing%201.jpg)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on April 02, 2016, 01:52:20 PM
I have absolutely no idea what that means.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on April 02, 2016, 02:57:38 PM
I have absolutely no idea what that means.

Sounds really good to my ears... but then my ears do not show the spectrum 😉
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on April 02, 2016, 03:42:34 PM
I have absolutely no idea what that means.

It means the album doesn't live in the red where clipping of the sound and audible distortion of the audio occurs.

Imaging if it was Metallica's Death Magnetic - it would be in the red constantly and be a solid block instead of peaks and troughs which is what dynamic music should have.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on April 03, 2016, 07:29:20 AM
It's possible that she is travelling using that hovering thing you see at the end of the LN live video.
Oh yeah, you're right.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on April 03, 2016, 03:43:47 PM
Anyone else a little confused over the distances involved in the GNE? Nafaryus talks about "the far off reaches of the land" and so forth but then it seems Faythe can zip back and forth between the palace and Ravenskill like it's nothing.

Overall, I was somewhat surprised that with this huge map and place names, the plot happens essentially in one tiny section of it. I mean, given that Nefaryus lives in NYC and Ravenskill is in Long Island (where DT is from) I guess it makes sense, but still, a bit odd.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on April 03, 2016, 04:00:25 PM
It is rather condensed and it is somewhat disappointing. This huge place and we only visit three places...But I'm looking forward to what the books and game expand on
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on April 04, 2016, 03:06:03 PM
Spam posts have been deleted.  Further spam posts may result in bans.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on April 04, 2016, 03:14:21 PM
There have been discussions much more "spam-worthy" than this one in this thread. Just saying.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DragonAttack on April 04, 2016, 03:39:09 PM
Two months later, and I'll just direct anyone to a couple of recent posts regarding JC Superstar

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=17755.0

As much as I really enjoyed 95% of the release when it first came out, I check on it off and on and find it falling somewhat out of favor.
I find it too long by about 20 minutes.  JRs piano intros for the most part are deleted.  I wish he'd had more than the right side of the piano available.  I love melodic melodies, but I am totally 'Faytheless' (thanks, RUSH) on my version. 

I also feel I am being preached to.  'Where there's faythe, there is hope'....'Gabriel, my son, I feel the tide is turning', constant 'savior' references

"Amazingly
The savior found his voice
And all together they rejoiced"

oy

Darn.....I wish the NOMACs would have involved JM and MM in sporadic heavy beatdowns, the story told via JR or JP scorching a solo or two where one gets to drift like 'Learning To Live', 8VM......

I have never smiled as much as I have with this release.  There's a word that rarely exists to describe a DT album....and that is 'fun'.  Man, I smiled and had fun the first couple of listens.  But at the end of the day, there is that certain 'something' that is missing.  So it might only get one play a year down the road.  I am not 'hating' on it, just kind of,.... well, I guess .....feelings of growing disappointment.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on April 04, 2016, 03:45:52 PM
There's a word that rarely exists to describe a DT album....and that is 'fun'.

IMO that's not right. Name 3 DT releases that aren't fun. That's one of their main qualities for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DragonAttack on April 04, 2016, 04:56:59 PM
There's a word that rarely exists to describe a DT album....and that is 'fun'.

IMO that's not right. Name 3 DT releases that aren't fun. That's one of their main qualities for me.

SC and BC&SL.....mostly dark and depressing.  I guess I'd throw in Six Degrees.....most of the tracks are musically fantastic, but the topics deal with depression.

TA....I laughed aloud and smiled at various points.  That was a different experience.  After all, there's nothing about partying, or cruisin' 80 mph down the highway with buddies, or raising hell, or having good times in their catalogue.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on April 04, 2016, 05:02:14 PM
There's a word that rarely exists to describe a DT album....and that is 'fun'.

IMO that's not right. Name 3 DT releases that aren't fun. That's one of their main qualities for me.

SC and BC&SL.....mostly dark and depressing.  I guess I'd throw in Six Degrees.....most of the tracks are musically fantastic, but the topics deal with depression.

TA....I laughed aloud and smiled at various points.  That was a different experience.  After all, there's nothing about partying, or cruisin' 80 mph down the highway with buddies, or raising hell, or having good times in their catalogue.

SC is all fictional stories. I'd say that's pretty fun (like, TDEN is so incredibly silly it's hard to take the lyrics seriously).
BC&SL deals with dark topics, but I'd say the music is pretty uplifting actually.

I guess I don't associate something being fun with whether it is dark or happy. If something is fun, it means I enjoy it for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on April 04, 2016, 05:15:09 PM
There's a word that rarely exists to describe a DT album....and that is 'fun'.

IMO that's not right. Name 3 DT releases that aren't fun. That's one of their main qualities for me.

SC and BC&SL.....mostly dark and depressing.  I guess I'd throw in Six Degrees.....most of the tracks are musically fantastic, but the topics deal with depression.

TA....I laughed aloud and smiled at various points.  That was a different experience.  After all, there's nothing about partying, or cruisin' 80 mph down the highway with buddies, or raising hell, or having good times in their catalogue.

SC is all fictional stories. I'd say that's pretty fun (like, TDEN is so incredibly silly it's hard to take the lyrics seriously).
BC&SL deals with dark topics, but I'd say the music is pretty uplifting actually.

I guess I don't associate something being fun with whether it is dark or happy. If something is fun, it means I enjoy it for me.

Yep. If the main riff of ANtR (coming in just before the first verse) or the instrumental section of CM aren't fun then I don't what what is.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 04, 2016, 08:23:23 PM
There's a word that rarely exists to describe a DT album....and that is 'fun'.

IMO that's not right. Name 3 DT releases that aren't fun. That's one of their main qualities for me.

For me too. That's perhaps the major reason DT are such an anomaly for me in the prog genre (ie. I'm not otherwise a prog fan at all).
That's not to say the music isn't serious too, but there's often a playful element to the music, and you know they're enjoying making music. It's a major element I've personally felt is largely lacking since MP left, but TA brought it back with songs like Three Days.
SC is one of their more fun albums to me, BCASL has a lot of fun parts too.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on April 04, 2016, 08:28:48 PM
Awake is my favorite DT album, but I'd hardly call it fun. An album doesn't need to be fun to be great.

Also, yes, I'm sure certain aspects or riffs of Awake may be fun, but I'd still argue it's not fun as an album. I'd say the same (minus some of the greatness) for ADTOE and DT12. Not much fun for me on those.

Of course, I may simply be defining fun differently than most of you.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 04, 2016, 08:40:20 PM
Awake is my favorite DT album, but I'd hardly call it fun. An album doesn't need to be fun to be great.

I don't think anyone was arguing an album had to be fun to be great.

Although Awake, DT12 and ADTOE are all ranked right at the bottom for me, so maybe that's not entirely a coincidence here.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on April 05, 2016, 04:30:48 AM
It's a major element I've personally felt is largely lacking since MP left, but TA brought it back with songs like Three Days.

I'd say the same (minus some of the greatness) for ADTOE and DT12.

I don't understand. BitS, BAI, EM and StR among quite a few other songs (LNF, FAS, TLG, BtV, AftR and IT) are extremely fun sounding to me. You say "there's often a playful element to the music, and you know they're enjoying making music" and that is certainly present throughout all 3 MM-era albums.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on April 05, 2016, 06:10:17 AM
Awake is my favorite DT album, but I'd hardly call it fun. An album doesn't need to be fun to be great.

I don't think anyone was arguing an album had to be fun to be great.

Although Awake, DT12 and ADTOE are all ranked right at the bottom for me, so maybe that's not entirely a coincidence here.

I like A Dramatic Turn Of Events a lot more than both Awake and DT12.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 05, 2016, 07:08:15 AM
It's a major element I've personally felt is largely lacking since MP left, but TA brought it back with songs like Three Days.

I'd say the same (minus some of the greatness) for ADTOE and DT12.

I don't understand. BitS, BAI, EM and StR among quite a few other songs (LNF, FAS, TLG, BtV, AftR and IT) are extremely fun sounding to me. You say "there's often a playful element to the music, and you know they're enjoying making music" and that is certainly present throughout all 3 MM-era albums.

Each to their own. We probably have different definitions of what in music is fun. Nothing on ADTOE is *extremely* fun to me, it's overall their most clinical sounding album imo. I don't know what about BAI would be considered fun, it's quite serious. Maybe there's a section I'm forgetting. Similar with STR.
I certainly agree on EM though. While I'm not much of a fan of it, it's absolutely fun! LNF, FAS, and BITS have some fun sections too. I didn't mean to say it was absent from those albums, but to me it's a huge drop off from previous albums, and not a strong element throughout. Contrast it to SFAM which is totally bursting at the seams with that fun factor.

MARRIAGE ANALOGY TIME! SFAM was like a new couple who can't wait to screw each other all over the house and have a lot of fun. ADTOE is a married couple of 15 years with 3 kids organizing a date night a month in advance where an uncle babysits so they can go out and eat at their favourite dependable restaurant and talk about their day at work, and are home by 9pm because they start to worry about the kids having too much sugar before bed.

:marriageanalogy:

I just realized you can't spell marriage analogy without anal. Is that relevant? Probably not.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on April 05, 2016, 08:01:49 AM
I don't know what about BAI would be considered fun, it's quite serious.

The intro alone is one of the most jovial things they've ever written (as well as the bit after the first chorus with the keyboard + full band call and response) and the piece as a whole is one of their most dynamic and technical songs. It's certainly not a brooding, serious sounding song like 'Repentence' or 'Wither'.

Similar with STR.

Like with BAI, it's a really dynamic, eclectic and energetic song. With the Rush esque into having those crazy fills, the raw solo towards the end, the creative and consistently varying riff following the acoustic part among other sections, I don't know how the song can't be called fun.

MARRIAGE ANALOGY TIME! SFAM was like a new couple who can't wait to screw each other all over the house and have a lot of fun. ADTOE is a married couple of 15 years with 3 kids organizing a date night a month in advance where an uncle babysits so they can go out and eat at their favourite dependable restaurant and talk about their day at work, and are home by 9pm because they start to worry about the kids having too much sugar before bed.

Nah. That doesn't seem right to me at all. DT still had a similar amount of commitments (in terms of how much free time they have outside of making music) for both albums and were both significant turning points in their career (SfaM proving that DT work better without interference and ADToE proving that DT don't need MP). Sure, they were younger during SfaM but still weren't a young band, being active for 14 years at that point.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 05, 2016, 09:19:49 AM
We definitely have very different concepts of fun, because to me you're mostly describing proggy, which to me is anti-fun. :lol "Jovial" is not a word that comes to mind with BAI.

I think the analogy works well enough, as far as a silly analogy goes. SFAM had a new DT member / major composer, for a completely new writing dynamic that was fresh and exciting, with so many new ideas. ADTOE was a band down a member, but was otherwise the same lineup they'd had for over a decade at that point. To me it sounded like they were going through the motions to continue. All imo of course! I think we're at the point of "agree to disagree". :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on April 05, 2016, 09:44:41 AM
We definitely have very different concepts of fun, because to me you're mostly describing proggy, which to me is anti-fun. :lol "Jovial" is not a word that comes to mind with BAI.

I think the analogy works well enough, as far as a silly analogy goes. SFAM had a new DT member / major composer, for a completely new writing dynamic that was fresh and exciting, with so many new ideas. ADTOE was a band down a member, but was otherwise the same lineup they'd had for over a decade at that point. To me it sounded like they were going through the motions to continue. All imo of course! I think we're at the point of "agree to disagree". :tup

Proggy is anti-fun? Ok...

Yeah, we're definitely speaking on different wavelengths.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 05, 2016, 11:30:48 AM
Yeah, but Blob is the anomaly.

In a forum full of prog fans, he is the one who doesn't like prog.

Of course, his opinion is still valid.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on April 05, 2016, 11:53:31 AM
Of course, his opinion is still valid.
Perhaps.  But while maybe valid, it is still worthy of being mocked and marginalized. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lax on April 05, 2016, 12:07:15 PM
About volume it's no joke, I felt at high volume in the car some songs boosted (especially around the walking shadow). I have to stop listening to albums at the edge of ear pain
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on April 05, 2016, 12:40:14 PM
I have to stop listening to albums at the edge of ear pain

Well... clearly yeah. That's not a good idea.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on April 05, 2016, 12:42:16 PM
We definitely have very different concepts of fun, because to me you're mostly describing proggy, which to me is anti-fun. :lol "Jovial" is not a word that comes to mind with BAI.

I think the analogy works well enough, as far as a silly analogy goes. SFAM had a new DT member / major composer, for a completely new writing dynamic that was fresh and exciting, with so many new ideas. ADTOE was a band down a member, but was otherwise the same lineup they'd had for over a decade at that point. To me it sounded like they were going through the motions to continue. All imo of course! I think we're at the point of "agree to disagree". :tup

Proggy is anti-fun? Ok...


I don't get that either. That's like saying a comedy movie can't be funny just because you don't find humor in it.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on April 05, 2016, 12:56:52 PM
That's like saying a comedy movie can't be funny just because you don't find humor in it.  :lol

You obviously haven't seen any of Adam Sandler's recent output..  :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on April 05, 2016, 01:01:23 PM
That's like saying a comedy movie can't be funny just because you don't find humor in it.  :lol

You obviously haven't seen any of Adam Sandler's recent output..  :P

Why would I want to do that?   :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 05, 2016, 01:14:57 PM
That's like saying a comedy movie can't be funny just because you don't find humor in it.  :lol

You obviously haven't seen any of Adam Sandler's recent output..  :P

Why would ANYONE want to do that?   :lol
FTFY
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on April 05, 2016, 01:20:32 PM
That's like saying a comedy movie can't be funny just because you don't find humor in it.  :lol

You obviously haven't seen any of Adam Sandler's recent output..  :P

Why would ANYONE want to do that?   :lol
FTFE (Everyone)

FTFY   :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on April 05, 2016, 01:32:56 PM
Red Letter Media's Jack & Jill review is amazing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 05, 2016, 08:14:32 PM
We definitely have very different concepts of fun, because to me you're mostly describing proggy, which to me is anti-fun. :lol "Jovial" is not a word that comes to mind with BAI.

I think the analogy works well enough, as far as a silly analogy goes. SFAM had a new DT member / major composer, for a completely new writing dynamic that was fresh and exciting, with so many new ideas. ADTOE was a band down a member, but was otherwise the same lineup they'd had for over a decade at that point. To me it sounded like they were going through the motions to continue. All imo of course! I think we're at the point of "agree to disagree". :tup

Proggy is anti-fun? Ok...


I don't get that either. That's like saying a comedy movie can't be funny just because you don't find humor in it.  :lol

That comparison would assume that prog is supposed to be fun. It's more like finding solving complex math problems fun. Some people will find fun in it, but it doesn't mean that solving complex math problems is generally considered a fun activity. :P

And oh god, Adam Sandler movies. Just WHY?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on April 05, 2016, 09:03:01 PM
Progressive rock music has always mean to me great musicianship. Progressive rock musicians are very talented. Lots of them have classical background.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on April 06, 2016, 03:58:54 AM
It's more like finding solving complex math problems fun.

No, it's not. I don't need to figure out all the intricacies in BAI's intro to find it fun. It's got an energetic tempo, a playful melody and it's unpredictably varying, making it exciting and FUN. Genres don't make music fun or not fun.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on April 06, 2016, 05:37:19 AM
We definitely have very different concepts of fun, because to me you're mostly describing proggy, which to me is anti-fun. :lol "Jovial" is not a word that comes to mind with BAI.

I think the analogy works well enough, as far as a silly analogy goes. SFAM had a new DT member / major composer, for a completely new writing dynamic that was fresh and exciting, with so many new ideas. ADTOE was a band down a member, but was otherwise the same lineup they'd had for over a decade at that point. To me it sounded like they were going through the motions to continue. All imo of course! I think we're at the point of "agree to disagree". :tup

Proggy is anti-fun? Ok...


I don't get that either. That's like saying a comedy movie can't be funny just because you don't find humor in it.  :lol

That comparison would assume that prog is supposed to be fun. It's more like finding solving complex math problems fun. Some people will find fun in it, but it doesn't mean that solving complex math problems is generally considered a fun activity. :P


But you're just using the generic, and often incorrect, assumption that all prog is complex.  :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 06, 2016, 05:56:34 AM
But you're just using the generic, and often incorrect, assumption that all prog is complex.  :P

I know, I was basing it on Enigmachine's description of what makes BAI fun, some of which to me is the stereotype prog stuff.
And it's more fun for me this way. :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on April 06, 2016, 06:03:06 AM
But you're just using the generic, and often incorrect, assumption that all prog is complex.  :P

I know, I was basing it on Enigmachine's description of what makes BAI fun, some of which to me is the stereotype prog stuff.
And it's more fun for me this way. :P

I wouldn't call BAI a "fun" song. It's certainly upbeat but that doesn't mean it's fun.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on April 06, 2016, 02:11:41 PM
I have never smiled as much as I have with this release.  There's a word that rarely exists to describe a DT album....and that is 'fun'. 

I know what you mean and agree with you.  Not that their other stuff isn't "fun", but this is just somewhat lighter and less serious (the music not necessarily the subject matter) and more varied.  Using the smile-O-meter, this is over the top.  One part that always makes me smile is the end of Three Days.  Also, I remember last album they wanted to make it sound like chocolate cake.  I didn't really get that impression.  But I do on this one.  It just sounds so huge and awesome and I love all of JPs varied tones.

I am starting to believe that this is going to be my favourite album of all time.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on April 07, 2016, 11:27:08 PM
I find most of SFAM very much fun, upbeat, etc.  Lots of TA is fun too. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on April 09, 2016, 03:14:30 AM
I was thinking...Scenes was released in 1999 and The Astonishing in 2016.

They won't release another concept album for a long time.

Even if Dream Theater are around in another 15 years - which I doubt since Jordan would be 75 by then and everyone else would be 60+

The Astonishing is probably the last concept they'll do.

UNLESS they know for sure album "x" will be their final album and they decide to go out with a bang...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on April 09, 2016, 05:02:55 AM
Well, all the albums after Scenes were "occupied" by Portnoy's AA Suite, DT11 would have been the first chance to make a concept since probably they started to get "Hey, why not" ideas already around then, but then of course the split happened and the new musical direction with Mangini had to be estabilished...

Had not Portnoy left, I think DT11 or DT12 could have been concept albums, without waiting for DT13. Now for sure the next one won't be a concept and most likely the next after that, but from DT16 onwards I don't see no strict rule that forbids them to do another concept if they want to...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ad134 on April 09, 2016, 06:50:34 AM
Had not Portnoy left, I think DT11 or DT12 could have been concept albums, without waiting for DT13. Now for sure the next one won't be a concept and most likely the next after that, but from DT16 onwards I don't see no strict rule that forbids them to do another concept if they want to...

I think I remember MP talking in an interview or something about their original plans for DT11 before he left... it was going to be a concept album, and the live tour would be a static setlist. Set 1 would be the concept album in full, and set 2 would be the 12 steps suite in full.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on April 09, 2016, 06:59:16 AM
Yep, that's what I remember as well. Maybe it was nothing set in stone but the idea had definitively crossed their minds and they were thinking about another concept album for a while.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DragonAttack on April 10, 2016, 07:16:58 AM
If I didn't find DT 'fun' and 'enjoyable' I wouldn't listen to them as often.  So I was a bit terse last week (a bad day can do that).  I gave my snipped disc 1 a listen on the home stereo yesterday.  That certainly makes a difference.  I still wish the lyrics were a bit less in your face.  Also, for how much JLB shines on this, I wish I didn't feel he was breathing on the back of my neck during most of the gentler parts.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on April 10, 2016, 08:15:59 AM
Also, for how much JLB shines on this, I wish I didn't feel he was breathing on the back of my neck during most of the gentler parts.

JLB has always had that breathy voice during ballads. Especially post SFAM.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on April 10, 2016, 08:19:23 AM
Also, for how much JLB shines on this, I wish I didn't feel he was breathing on the back of my neck during most of the gentler parts.

JLB has always had that breathy voice during ballads. Especially post SFAM.

I think he purposely did breathy voice for the Faythe parts. For the ballads that had Gabriel, he did not really do breathy vocals (The Answer, Chosen, Whispers in the Wind)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on April 10, 2016, 08:25:09 AM
As far as his breathiness goes, I think it sounds good as long as you don't hear the breathing screwing with the quality of sound. I was a bit bothered with his breathy vocals on the Wish you were hear cover, probably because I was used to hearing it being sung in a different way.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on April 10, 2016, 11:13:39 AM
Had not Portnoy left, I think DT11 or DT12 could have been concept albums, without waiting for DT13. Now for sure the next one won't be a concept and most likely the next after that, but from DT16 onwards I don't see no strict rule that forbids them to do another concept if they want to...

I think I remember MP talking in an interview or something about their original plans for DT11 before he left... it was going to be a concept album, and the live tour would be a static setlist. Set 1 would be the concept album in full, and set 2 would be the 12 steps suite in full.

That woulda been awesome to see, with maybe ACOS as the encore? Count me in!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on April 16, 2016, 11:09:11 AM
Umm, sorry if this is wrong place to ask and maybe break the rule, feel free to warn me heheeh
Can I request anyone here, to write what all narrator said before Descent of NOMACS track when Dream Theater play live??
Because I am from asian and having a bad english, I really cant hear and understand what the narrator said in Dream Theater opening live concert....

Thanks all !!!  :hefdaddy :tup ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on April 16, 2016, 11:41:52 AM
" A long long time ago.. .  . I can still remember how the music used to make me smile..."


Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on April 16, 2016, 11:49:05 AM
" A long long time ago.. .  . I can still remember how the music used to make me smile..."
..........
umm, okay... That's interesting  ;D :blush
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on April 16, 2016, 03:57:18 PM
Haha. I'm joking. That's American Pie.  :biggrin: :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on April 16, 2016, 03:59:12 PM
At least some parts were taken from this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dreamtheater/comments/3r9rik/great_northern_empire_supporter_email/

I remember from the show that "THE EMPIRE IS OBEDIENT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE OBEDIENT TO THE EMPIRE." thing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on April 16, 2016, 04:39:00 PM
I remember from the show that "THE EMPIRE IS OBEDIENT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE OBEDIENT TO THE EMPIRE." thing.

That quote sounds like it was inspired by 1984.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on April 16, 2016, 10:22:30 PM
This is what Nafaryus says at the beginning of the show:

Do not be deceived by those who speak of new wonders born of “sound,” as this is the work of devilish malcontents whose search for wisdom will result only in ignorance. The NOMACS have secured you just as your daily work has defined you. FEAR and BEWARE the destabilization of our most hallowed traditions that have kept you safe and serene.

The Empire toils for you so that you may toil for the Empire.
THE EMPIRE IS OBEDIENT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE OBEDIENT TO THE EMPIRE.
The Empire protects you because you protect the Empire.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 16, 2016, 10:26:04 PM
Oops, Myung'd. :)

That additional section is what was cut from Descent of the NOMACS to make Act I fit on a single disc.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on April 16, 2016, 11:52:24 PM
I wish they would have kept it and cut something else, but that would have been hard to do. I love the extra loud noise at the end too, having that go three times instead of two.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on April 17, 2016, 02:45:46 AM
I agree with cutting that, I have a hard time thinking of better choices than a spoken intro and what was already a very long solo.

"I don't like this or that song so I would have cut that" is not an option, from Dream Theater's point of view all the songs were crucial to the story so suggesting to just remove a least favorite song wouldn't work. Furthermore, they had already announced the tracklist when they realized they were overtime.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on April 17, 2016, 02:16:31 PM
Haha. I'm joking. That's American Pie.  :biggrin: :biggrin:
What?? I dont know that?? Hahahaha  :omg: :lol

This is what Nafaryus says at the beginning of the show:

Do not be deceived by those who speak of new wonders born of “sound,” as this is the work of devilish malcontents whose search for wisdom will result only in ignorance. The NOMACS have secured you just as your daily work has defined you. FEAR and BEWARE the destabilization of our most hallowed traditions that have kept you safe and serene.

The Empire toils for you so that you may toil for the Empire.
THE EMPIRE IS OBEDIENT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE OBEDIENT TO THE EMPIRE.
The Empire protects you because you protect the Empire.

Thank you man !!!  :tup :tup :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pringkaarwanda on April 17, 2016, 02:19:13 PM
I agree with the other who like uncut or full version of Descent of NOMACS, we can call it Descent of NOMACS Extended Version hahaha  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Calvin6s on April 17, 2016, 02:50:29 PM
Ravenskill doesn't even have to compete in the Hunger Games.  What a bunch of whiny serfs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 17, 2016, 11:10:51 PM
The uncut intro is a little cheesier, and the song lyrics basically make up for the lost intro dialogue, so I see why they cut it. It set the scene before the first NOMAC intro, but just like editing a movie down to length, if it's not absolutely necessary to tell the story, you can cut it.
From what we know, I think they did a good job of deciding what to cut. Personally I probably would have cut all of the NOMACS tracks and left the end of ANB though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on April 18, 2016, 03:49:51 PM
What's Lord Nafaryus' first name ?

Neil.

Neil before Nafaryus
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on April 19, 2016, 06:39:40 AM
The intro cut was made late in the process. And in fact - there's a third version of Descent as well - which was released to the press. It has no narration, but is still a minute longer.

With regards to the ANB - that was not cut during the mixing though - it was cut already during the writing process so the longer solo version only exists as very rough demo home snippets that JP and JR made during the writing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 19, 2016, 06:42:05 AM
Are you sure there's a third version? I have the longer version (2:04), with the narration.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lucasembarbosa on April 19, 2016, 08:05:49 AM
Are you sure there's a third version? I have the longer version (2:04), with the narration.

Besides the uncut version of Descent of the NOMACS, is there any difference between the promo release and the actual release of the songs? Is there any possibility of sharing the promo release with the general public?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on April 19, 2016, 03:05:57 PM
What's Lord Nafaryus' first name ?

Neil.

Neil before Nafaryus
:clap:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on April 19, 2016, 05:45:18 PM
Finally some recognition.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Rattlehead on April 19, 2016, 10:37:16 PM
I finally got around to listening to this album and I'm really enjoying it so far :metal I am going to see them at Radio City on Saturday so I'm trying to familiarize myself with the new material as much as possible. Favorite tracks so far are A Better Life and Lord Nafaryus.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on April 20, 2016, 03:15:07 AM
I finally got around to listening to this album and I'm really enjoying it so far :metal I am going to see them at Radio City on Saturday so I'm trying to familiarize myself with the new material as much as possible. Favorite tracks so far are A Better Life and Lord Nafaryus.

LN is my fave also. Well, for that matter, almost the whole of Act I is my fave.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Grizz on April 22, 2016, 10:40:37 PM
I find that this album is seriously hurt by its odd structure (lots of dying down in the middle of the first act which makes it drag and a hell of a lot of 80s-sounding guitar solos) and its excessive amount of slower songs. However, seeing it live gave me more appreciation for much of it. I like the album until The Answer, but then it picks up again until Gabriel opens his mouth in Savior in the Square. Unfortunately this part really kills the album because this part is a total cheesefest and I despise Act of Faythe. Thankfully I can wash it down with Three Days. Brother Can You Hear Me is decent, but the lyrics bother me because they tried way too hard and it's just like "We get it, he's gonna surrender and yield to his demands, he's gonna not stand together and fall as a result, he'll forsake him and let his brother dowwwwwnnnnn." The rest of Act 1 is kind of bland and draggy imo, except for A New Beginning, which I definitely didn't appreciate enough until I heard it live.
Act II has a great opening. Moment of Betrayal reminds me of Operation Mindcrime for some reason. I like the uniqueness of Hymn of a Thousand Voices. I find most of the rest of Act II kind of bland as well, but better than the bland parts of Act I.
A couple things that drive me nuts:
Act of Faythe. A bland song for the most part but then there's a build up and then... "MAH MUSIC PLAYAH!"??? Really? That's worse than The Best of Times right there.
LaBrie's laughter in 3 days. Makes me think of Scut Farkus.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: comment on April 22, 2016, 11:18:48 PM
What's Lord Nafaryus' first name ?

Neil.

Neil before Nafaryus
:clap:

 :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: comment on April 22, 2016, 11:25:01 PM
..and then... "MAH MUSIC PLAYAH!"??? Really? That's worse than The Best of Times right there.
LaBrie's laughter in 3 days. Makes me think of Scut Farkus.

 :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: comment on April 22, 2016, 11:50:06 PM
Love this album! 

At first it needed to grow on me a bit and I skipped around a lot.  The first ones I would revisit were:  Our New World, Dystopian Overture, Moment of Betrayal, The Gift of Music, A Life Left Behind, A New Beginning, 2285 ... Even Descent of the Nomacs and Machine Chatter.

Lately my favorites have been Chosen, X Aspect and Losing Faythe.  It's the powerful crescendos and melodies I love on these.

There are snipits that don't do it for me still...  The Answer, Lord Nafaryus,.. I love the guitar on Savior In The Square, but I don't like the "We have come to hear you sing". interruption.. 

My biggest criticism:  The Astonishing needs more "cow bell" being the final track with a title like that...  With a name like that I thought it would be DTs magnum opus of all time.  However, I do think it sounds good, I just expected more.  Same applies to Hymn of 1000. 

As a whole the album is awesome and I can just let it play and play and not get tired of it.  Looking forward to seeing it live this Sunday in Baltimore!   :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on April 24, 2016, 03:39:48 PM
Just realized lately how much I like the drumming in ONW. Relatively simple, but spot on.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on April 24, 2016, 03:49:43 PM
Just realized lately how much I like the drumming in ONW. Relatively simple, but spot on.
Agreeed. Mathias's drum cover really helped me understand the nuances of MM's playing on the track. It fits the music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30f3B3c_cbM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30f3B3c_cbM)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: comment on April 24, 2016, 07:45:46 PM
It's intermission here in Baltimore.  The fist part was awesome!  They all sound great.  The bass drums are a little overpowering, but it's all good.  James took a break in the lyrics of... I don't remember which song and says.  "I'm choking on my spit!"  Lol

This times great album live with the visuals...

The Nomac display takes your pic and gives you a name..  😝  I'm "Jayme" from the Empire. 

Everyone that has a chance, I suggest catching this album live.  Soooo good!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on April 24, 2016, 08:29:39 PM
Just realized lately how much I like the drumming in ONW. Relatively simple, but spot on.
Agreeed. Mathias's drum cover really helped me understand the nuances of MM's playing on the track. It fits the music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30f3B3c_cbM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30f3B3c_cbM)

That is Mangini's approach to drumming even before Dream Theater. He compose his drum parts based on how it complements what the other instruments are doing and what the feel of the song needs. The drum parts sound relatively simple because they fit and and do not call attention to themselves. However, when you try to play the parts, a lot of them are actually difficult to pull off, especially when MM highlights more than one instrument while trying to keep a regular beat at the same time.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on April 24, 2016, 09:22:53 PM
Just realized lately how much I like the drumming in ONW. Relatively simple, but spot on.

For sure. Not sure why, but I have noticed that TA has many more air drum-worthy moments than ADTOE or DT12 did (and I am a big fan of all three albums).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on April 24, 2016, 09:26:19 PM
It's such a small part and I have no clue why I like it so much, but the 8th notes on the kicks at the very end of Moment of Betrayal is one of my favorite parts on the whole album. I've liked it since it appeared at the end of the trailer in January
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: romanticrocker on April 25, 2016, 11:01:53 PM
Still think it could of been better if they had different singers do each character seriously how are we suppose to tell when faythe is singing lol thank god they have an site the gives a nice detail of each song
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on April 26, 2016, 03:30:50 AM
Still think it could of been better if they had different singers do each character seriously how are we suppose to tell when faythe is singing lol thank god they have an site the gives a nice detail of each song

JLB uses a different vocal delivery when it is Faythe. It is noticeable in the Ravenskill conversation between Faythe and Arhys.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Luoto on April 26, 2016, 06:09:18 AM
Still think it could of been better if they had different singers do each character seriously how are we suppose to tell when faythe is singing lol thank god they have an site the gives a nice detail of each song

JLB uses a different vocal delivery when it is Faythe. It is noticeable in the Ravenskill conversation between Faythe and Arhys.

Plus Faythe has one of the most prominent musical themes attached to her. Remember that music was written first based on the script, and lyrical arrangement was done last.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: romanticrocker on April 26, 2016, 08:51:35 AM
Still think it could of been better if they had different singers do each character seriously how are we suppose to tell when faythe is singing lol thank god they have an site the gives a nice detail of each song

JLB uses a different vocal delivery when it is Faythe. It is noticeable in the Ravenskill conversation between Faythe and Arhys.

For real I never noticed I'll pay more attention next time I know he uses it for nafaryus
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: romanticrocker on April 26, 2016, 09:06:06 AM
Still think it could of been better if they had different singers do each character seriously how are we suppose to tell when faythe is singing lol thank god they have an site the gives a nice detail of each song

JLB uses a different vocal delivery when it is Faythe. It is noticeable in the Ravenskill conversation between Faythe and Arhys.

Plus Faythe has one of the most prominent musical themes attached to her. Remember that music was written first based on the script, and lyrical arrangement was done last.

what I'm going to do is read the lyrics while listen to the album since they give a great detail of each song and what character is singing each part I read half of it yesterday and it's pretty awesome can't believe all the work they put into this album I think it would make a hell of a movie or musical if they don't get a Grammy for this album then I don't know what will earn them one
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shadow2222 on April 28, 2016, 09:40:47 AM
At the Cincinnati show last night, James said they just filmed a video for Our New World, so that's something to look forward to.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 28, 2016, 09:41:50 AM
Great choice of song to go with too.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on April 28, 2016, 11:47:59 AM
Yes ! Great news !

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on April 28, 2016, 12:29:29 PM
Great choice of song to go with too.

Agreed! It's one of my favorites.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on April 28, 2016, 12:33:36 PM
Did they film live footage of the band performing the song for the music video? I thought I saw someone else say that...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 28, 2016, 12:35:09 PM
Great choice of song to go with too.

Agreed! It's one of my favorites.

Definitely one of my favourites from the album, and I think it's also one of the songs that works best out of the context of the whole. The lyrics aren't too specific, it musically feels self contained, and it's a strong song, instantly kicking off with a great riff, has a catchy chorus, and a killer guitar solo.
I'm interested to see what they choose to do for the video, whether it's just them in a room performing, or whether they'll include some of the animation again.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on April 28, 2016, 12:40:37 PM
Great choice of song to go with too.

Agreed! It's one of my favorites.

Definitely one of my favourites from the album, and I think it's also one of the songs that works best out of the context of the whole. The lyrics aren't too specific, it musically feels self contained, and it's a strong song, instantly kicking off with a great riff, has a catchy chorus, and a killer guitar solo.
I'm interested to see what they choose to do for the video, whether it's just them in a room performing, or whether they'll include some of the animation again.

It'll probably be the same as The Looking Glass with some minor animations included. It would be great if they could get a couple of actors to play Faythe and Gabriel in the video.

The song itself completely reminds me of Six Degrees (About to Crash & Reprise). It has a good upbeat feel to it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on April 28, 2016, 01:36:24 PM
If they market it correctly, the song really has a chance to go down as one of the great guitar songs, similar to Under a Glass Moon. It's got an awesome riff, the whole song revolves around the riff, and it's got a couple of melodic, roaring solos as well.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ZirconBlue on April 28, 2016, 01:46:39 PM
Did they film live footage of the band performing the song for the music video? I thought I saw someone else say that...

I think they're just going to use some fans' cell-phone videos.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on April 28, 2016, 01:47:29 PM
Did they film live footage of the band performing the song for the music video? I thought I saw someone else say that...

I think they're just going to use some fans' cell-phone videos.

 :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on April 28, 2016, 01:48:29 PM
Did they film live footage of the band performing the song for the music video? I thought I saw someone else say that...

I think they're just going to use some fans' cell-phone videos.

 :rollin

 :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on April 28, 2016, 01:56:28 PM
 :lol

OH NO YOU DI'INT!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on April 28, 2016, 03:04:51 PM
I wouldn't mind a "tour journal" type video a la Wither...

But seeing as it's part of The Astonishing - it will probably be similar to The Gift Of Music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on April 28, 2016, 03:26:58 PM
Great choice of song to go with too.

Agreed! It's one of my favorites.

Definitely one of my favourites from the album, and I think it's also one of the songs that works best out of the context of the whole. The lyrics aren't too specific, it musically feels self contained, and it's a strong song, instantly kicking off with a great riff, has a catchy chorus, and a killer guitar solo.
I'm interested to see what they choose to do for the video, whether it's just them in a room performing, or whether they'll include some of the animation again.

It'll probably be the same as The Looking Glass with some minor animations included. It would be great if they could get a couple of actors to play Faythe and Gabriel in the video.

The song itself completely reminds me of Six Degrees (About to Crash & Reprise). It has a good upbeat feel to it.

This was never a top song for me from the album, although I do enjoy it, but it definitely has a good upbeat feel plus seeing it live was awesome because it was at the point int he concert where people finally stood and got to rock out so that has added some more likes from me for this song.  I do think it's a good choice for a music video too, actually has some marketability to people outside of the prog metal genre.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on April 28, 2016, 03:43:19 PM
Great choice of song to go with too.

Agreed! It's one of my favorites.

Definitely one of my favourites from the album, and I think it's also one of the songs that works best out of the context of the whole. The lyrics aren't too specific, it musically feels self contained, and it's a strong song, instantly kicking off with a great riff, has a catchy chorus, and a killer guitar solo.
I'm interested to see what they choose to do for the video, whether it's just them in a room performing, or whether they'll include some of the animation again.

It'll probably be the same as The Looking Glass with some minor animations included. It would be great if they could get a couple of actors to play Faythe and Gabriel in the video.

The song itself completely reminds me of Six Degrees (About to Crash & Reprise). It has a good upbeat feel to it.

This was never a top song for me from the album, although I do enjoy it, but it definitely has a good upbeat feel plus seeing it live was awesome because it was at the point int he concert where people finally stood and got to rock out so that has added some more likes from me for this song.  I do think it's a good choice for a music video too, actually has some marketability to people outside of the prog metal genre.

Obviously. Blob likes it.   :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ThatcrazyKISSfan on April 28, 2016, 04:57:17 PM
I was at the Cinct show last night. Great show. I really hope they have another US tour. That album took a while to grow on me. I'd love another chance to see it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ResultsMayVary on April 28, 2016, 05:06:18 PM
I was at the Cinct show last night. Great show. I really hope they have another US tour. That album took a while to grow on me. I'd love another chance to see it.
I was there as well. While the album worked out really well for me in my first few listens, hearing the whole thing live really gave me a new appreciation for it. To me, it sounds huge live and I love that. I'm hoping for another tour as well here in the States, because I would see it again without a doubt.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on April 28, 2016, 06:28:57 PM
DT "performance" videos generally blow, but I am sure the Our New World one will be along those lines (in style and quality :lol).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 28, 2016, 09:30:32 PM
It'll probably be the same as The Looking Glass with some minor animations included. It would be great if they could get a couple of actors to play Faythe and Gabriel in the video.

The song itself completely reminds me of Six Degrees (About to Crash & Reprise). It has a good upbeat feel to it.

That's why I love the song so much. Totally has an ATC vibe about it.

But I'd steer well away from anything involving Faythe/Gabriel in the video, and just keep it really simple.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on April 29, 2016, 04:15:25 AM
I wish they did something along the lines of On the backs of angels, a video that features the band on stage.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 29, 2016, 04:20:25 AM
I'd forgotten that OTBOA even had them playing on stage. All I remember is JLB's face on the side of a building. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on April 29, 2016, 05:35:01 AM
It'll probably be the same as The Looking Glass with some minor animations included. It would be great if they could get a couple of actors to play Faythe and Gabriel in the video.

The song itself completely reminds me of Six Degrees (About to Crash & Reprise). It has a good upbeat feel to it.

That's why I love the song so much. Totally has an ATC vibe about it.

But I'd steer well away from anything involving Faythe/Gabriel in the video, and just keep it really simple.

I don't see them doing that. It would just be nice for them to have a conceptual video again. And I don't mean some hot chick dropping a looking glass on the floor.  :lol

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 29, 2016, 05:38:34 AM
I thought the Looking Glass video was quite classy, aside from the overly literal interpretation of the song title the director did to come up with a girl holding a looking glass. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on April 29, 2016, 05:47:52 AM
I thought the Looking Glass video was quite classy, aside from the overly literal interpretation of the song title the director did to come up with a girl holding a looking glass. :lol

 :lol  Exactly.

It wasn't too bad, though. Hell, I shouldn't complain because they actually made a video. Though a looking glass is actually a mirror, so he did improvise a little bit.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on April 29, 2016, 09:04:51 AM
It's such an epic song, I love it.

In terms of video, I wish they did something fun for a change. For example, recreate classic music videos, like Slash standing on the cliff during the November Rain solo, but this time JP with a top hat. Stuff like that would be so awesome.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on April 29, 2016, 12:45:22 PM
It's such an epic song, I love it.

In terms of video, I wish they did something fun for a change. For example, recreate classic music videos, like Slash standing on the cliff during the November Rain solo, but this time JP with a top hat. Stuff like that would be so awesome.

Or Jordan with his wizard hat.  :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on April 30, 2016, 02:34:09 AM
Seeing as The Astonishing is maybe Dream Theater's least technical album overall and focuses way more on the actual songs than the shredding etc...

I'd *love* to read an interview with Mangini about his playing on the album to see if he talks about playing for the music this time around..

...or whether he bangs on about playing 19/5 again  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on April 30, 2016, 03:06:41 AM
I remember him making a huge post on FB where he talked about one snare roll in like three paragraphs. I really doubt playing for music is the case with him ever.  :lol Music is just numbers to him.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on April 30, 2016, 05:12:11 AM
Seeing as The Astonishing is maybe Dream Theater's least technical album overall and focuses way more on the actual songs than the shredding etc...

I'd *love* to read an interview with Mangini about his playing on the album to see if he talks about playing for the music this time around..

...or whether he bangs on about playing 19/5 again  :biggrin:

I remember him making a huge post on FB where he talked about one snare roll in like three paragraphs. I really doubt playing for music is the case with him ever.  :lol Music is just numbers to him.

Because knowledge and application of advanced music theory has never been used to complement the music. Never.

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on April 30, 2016, 06:29:01 AM
Well in Mangini's case it amounts to a whole lot of boring drumming imo.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on April 30, 2016, 08:52:35 AM
I remember him making a huge post on FB where he talked about one snare roll in like three paragraphs. I really doubt playing for music is the case with him ever.  :lol Music is just numbers to him.

He plays to the music all the time. The counts come afterwards.

His post about the snare roll is in The Astonishing where he is playing two snare rolls with different hands at the same time. How that part does not sound musical to you, as Mangini tries to simulate a marching band effect, I will not understand.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on April 30, 2016, 11:29:04 AM
Because on the actual song it sounds like a Bog Standard snare drum roll.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on April 30, 2016, 11:30:41 AM

Because knowledge and application of advanced music theory has never been used to complement the music. Never.

 :facepalm:

It's fine in a band like DT which is all about the technique. But playing to music should be from the heart first and foremost in my opinion.

I'm not saying Mangini doesn't do that but he almost exclusively talks about what he's doing numbers wise.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on April 30, 2016, 11:44:16 AM
I'm not saying Mangini doesn't do that but he almost exclusively talks about what he's doing numbers wise.

Well...

1. It's a more interesting way to explain things than "it just felt right".

2. It is possible, like erwin said, that MM plays from feel then breaks it down afterwards to see why it works.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on April 30, 2016, 11:52:25 AM
I've always thought of that 'if you're extremely technical in your playing/thinking you can't be emotional with music' phrase as bullshit.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on April 30, 2016, 12:31:54 PM
I've always thought of that as 'if you're extremely technical in your playing/thinking you can't be emotional with music' as bullshit.

Agreed. The only people who speak nonsense like that are narrow-minded and most likely unable to do it themselves so they harness a naive notion that if they can't do it, nobody can.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on April 30, 2016, 07:57:50 PM
I've always thought of that 'if you're extremely technical in your playing/thinking you can't be emotional with music' phrase as bullshit.

Exactly
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on May 03, 2016, 09:24:02 AM
Assuming we're engaging in a general discussion about the matter, and not necessarily only talking about DT: I think the issue is often not that the technical player can't play with emotions at all, but rather he/she *prioritizes* the technical aspect over other considerations (such as whether it jives well with the rest of the music, creates a consistent whole). For example, I have known many a guitar player who was under the belief that a good, interesting guitar solo is created once one employs concepts such as modes (e.g. play in mixolydian) and sweeping etc.
It's a tempting mistake to make. Technicality can always be improved by applying yourself more, spending more time on the instrument. On the other hand, "flows well" and "integrates well into song" are concepts that are much harder to pin down and, frankly, require taste and experience.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 03, 2016, 09:42:34 AM
Assuming we're engaging in a general discussion about the matter, and not necessarily only talking about DT: I think the issue is often not that the technical player can't play with emotions at all, but rather he/she *prioritizes* the technical aspect over other considerations (such as whether it jives well with the rest of the music, creates a consistent whole). For example, I have known many a guitar player who was under the belief that a good, interesting guitar solo is created once one employs concepts such as modes (e.g. play in mixolydian) and sweeping etc.
It's a tempting mistake to make. Technicality can always be improved by applying yourself more, spending more time on the instrument. On the other hand, "flows well" and "integrates well into song" are concepts that are much harder to pin down and, frankly, require taste and experience.
I will just add that, it is something that is still so subjective that it is hard to pin down even if one is regarded as having a ton of "taste" and "experience."  As you rightly point it, it is very fuzzy.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on May 03, 2016, 08:15:28 PM
Assuming we're engaging in a general discussion about the matter, and not necessarily only talking about DT: I think the issue is often not that the technical player can't play with emotions at all, but rather he/she *prioritizes* the technical aspect over other considerations (such as whether it jives well with the rest of the music, creates a consistent whole). For example, I have known many a guitar player who was under the belief that a good, interesting guitar solo is created once one employs concepts such as modes (e.g. play in mixolydian) and sweeping etc.
It's a tempting mistake to make. Technicality can always be improved by applying yourself more, spending more time on the instrument. On the other hand, "flows well" and "integrates well into song" are concepts that are much harder to pin down and, frankly, require taste and experience.
I will just add that, it is something that is still so subjective that it is hard to pin down even if one is regarded as having a ton of "taste" and "experience."  As you rightly point it, it is very fuzzy.

In which case, I would say that MM is not prioritizing technicality over other aspects in his playing because his playing style is always about integrating with what the others are doing.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on May 04, 2016, 12:36:09 AM
Hahaha...actually their backing tracks messed up at the Denver show.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on May 05, 2016, 12:12:34 AM
Is it me, or this review is really disturbing and weird?

https://www.portlandmercury.com/music/2016/05/04/18007976/a-commentary-on-dream-theaters-magnum-opus

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on May 05, 2016, 12:23:19 AM
I gotta admit that I laughed at the line: (Talking about the scream in Last Farewell): "Sounds like he went out for the morning paper and stepped on a slug"

But yeah, that was kind of stupid.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Crow on May 05, 2016, 12:28:48 AM
"we hated the album, here's us hating the album for a while"
not really disturbing or weird, just kinda dumb and pointless, occasionally a bit funny
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on May 05, 2016, 06:01:09 AM
I can't tell if that "review" was meant to be funny or serious, which makes it very uncomfortable to read, haha.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: goo-goo on May 05, 2016, 07:45:13 AM
Hahaha...actually their backing tracks messed up at the Denver show.

What part? I was there and didn't notice it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on May 05, 2016, 08:51:48 AM
The dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks (https://dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks) site has been updated to include lyrics to all songs.

An interesting bit of trivia: in "The Walking Shadow", the lines 'Don't hold your breath, the night's still young...' are now credited to Daryus. I know most of us had already realised that the Arhys credit was likely a typo, so this confirms it, I guess.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: kirksnosehair on May 05, 2016, 11:52:11 AM
I just spun this today for the first time in about 3 weeks.  I didn't want to burn it out so I put it down after about 3 or 4 spins when it first came out, but this is the first time circling back and I am definitely enjoying it.   :hat
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dtvoices94 on May 05, 2016, 12:24:37 PM
Is it me, or this review is really disturbing and weird?

https://www.portlandmercury.com/music/2016/05/04/18007976/a-commentary-on-dream-theaters-magnum-opus

That may be the most pointless review ever written.  Ned needs to dial it back a little.  No one can be that much of an insufferable di** in real life. 
Nevermind, pretty sure Ned is.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on May 05, 2016, 12:53:16 PM
Is it me, or this review is really disturbing and weird?

https://www.portlandmercury.com/music/2016/05/04/18007976/a-commentary-on-dream-theaters-magnum-opus

That may be the most pointless review ever written.  Ned needs to dial it back a little.  No one can be that much of an insufferable di** in real life. 
Nevermind, pretty sure Ned is.

It seems like he (Ned) tried to use the review / commentary as a platform for comedy and they all come off sounding really annoying in the process. They make it kind of obvious that it was made for the purpose of ridiculing the album. It's hard to tell who it's actually written for though, maybe people who hate the album? Then again, the humour sucks so I'm still not sure.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on May 05, 2016, 12:56:37 PM
I actually found the interview funny even though I love the album. You people need to take a  :chill
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on May 05, 2016, 01:05:20 PM
I actually found the interview funny even though I love the album. You people need to take a  :chill

I can handle people mocking things I like if it's funny. That was trying so hard to be funny that it became obnoxious IMO.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on May 05, 2016, 01:12:25 PM
I think Chino said it way back in the middle of the thread, but 1:22-1:38 in Lord Nafaryus is not the best bit I've heard on a DT album. It's just a bit too high for JLB
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on May 05, 2016, 01:23:47 PM
I think Chino said it way back in the middle of the thread, but 1:22-1:38 in Lord Nafaryus is not the best bit I've heard on a DT album. It's just a bit too high for JLB

Unfortunately this happens a lot with LaBrie on the last two albums. He pushes himself for no reason and it A) doesn't sound good AT ALL B) makes it hard for him to perform live. No idea why he can't just stay in the midrange where he shines the most. Most of ADTOE was great in this aspect.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 05, 2016, 01:33:01 PM
I have no idea what you guys are talking about.  That part sounds great. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on May 05, 2016, 01:38:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c)

Please don't ban me
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on May 05, 2016, 03:46:41 PM
I love that part, although I wish it had a bit more rasp on it. Can't please everyone, though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Omadus on May 05, 2016, 05:26:01 PM
Has anyone ordered the box set? Have you received anything yet?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 05, 2016, 05:26:57 PM
Someone mentioned recently that they have not yet shipped, but are supposed to later this month. 

On a somewhat tangential note, the updated tour books look fantastic.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Omadus on May 05, 2016, 05:29:38 PM
Someone mentioned recently that they have not yet shipped, but are supposed to later this month. 


Just wanted to see if anyone else is having the same experience....I already got the vinyl edition, but when I check on my order status, it says that the CD and gift have been shipped as well but I never got them.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on May 05, 2016, 06:13:24 PM
I think Chino said it way back in the middle of the thread, but 1:22-1:38 in Lord Nafaryus is not the best bit I've heard on a DT album. It's just a bit too high for JLB

Unfortunately this happens a lot with LaBrie on the last two albums. He pushes himself for no reason and it A) doesn't sound good AT ALL B) makes it hard for him to perform live. No idea why he can't just stay in the midrange where he shines the most. Most of ADTOE was great in this aspect.

Yeah, both in Boston and a YT video I saw of the tune, that section was a solid two notes below what it was supposed to be.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wasteland on May 06, 2016, 09:45:33 AM
Great new live video for Our New World! This was recorded in Milan, and features footage from the 18th and 19th March shows. Damn, I squandered my chance to appear on a DT video getting tickets for the March 17th show :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnLdx2FyNqg
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on May 06, 2016, 09:46:09 AM
Ha ! I think I predicted it would be a live video.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on May 06, 2016, 09:52:19 AM
Cool video!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 06, 2016, 09:54:21 AM
Awesome  :metal :metal

Although, might have went a little too much Steve Harris on the editting, but really cool and I like it!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on May 06, 2016, 09:55:28 AM
I wouldn't mind a "tour journal" type video a la Wither...

But seeing as it's part of The Astonishing - it will probably be similar to The Gift Of Music.


Ah ok. I got what I wanted at least. This is much better. Can't go wrong with a live video and backstage stuff.  :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on May 06, 2016, 09:58:22 AM
Nice. Good, simple video just like Wither and TLG.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 06, 2016, 10:09:24 AM
Makes me even more excited for the show now.  2 days!  :caffeine:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 06, 2016, 10:14:56 AM
Great video. How awesome would it be getting a live DVD with that footage quality?

Made me think of Wither.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on May 06, 2016, 10:32:18 AM
This is exactly what I wanted from the video. Fantastic, thousand times better than The Gift of music video.  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 06, 2016, 11:55:56 AM
Great video. How awesome would it be getting a live DVD with that footage quality?

Made me think of Wither.

yea, the footage quality looks really good here.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on May 06, 2016, 02:33:25 PM
AWESOME! Love it.

Such a great happy upbeat song. Perfect song for a beautiful sunny spring day!!

 :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on May 06, 2016, 03:28:12 PM
It still reminds me of " You're The Voice " but that's ok as they're both amazing songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Randaran on May 06, 2016, 07:39:04 PM
I preferred the video for TGOM; the concept for this one is fine, but the editing almost ruins it. Was it really necessary to have a cut every second or two?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on May 06, 2016, 07:52:54 PM
I don't think I like a single DT video that isn't actually a live performance capture. They are all boring and/or cringe-worthy to me. (like the TEI video :neverusethis:)

Was there any confirmation or talk of there being a DVD of this tour sometime later?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Progmetty on May 06, 2016, 10:40:15 PM
I enjoyed Our New World/Wither Pt.2 video, I just thought there were at least 4 other songs on the album more worthy of a single/video treatment than Our New World, for example Three Days, The Path That Divides, A New Beginning or Heaven's Cove. But still I enjoyed the video for all the live footage.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CB on May 07, 2016, 02:11:28 PM
I love the video, the band is in it, great! Very much like Wither, but also the opposite. Wither felt very melancholic to me, this is just pure joy. Now I want a blue ray of the show in that quality.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on May 07, 2016, 02:49:55 PM
I love the song and I love the video.  To me, that's about the only really good thing of cd 2.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on May 08, 2016, 10:05:39 AM
Just finished another run of The Astonishing.

Whenever I have time to listen to music, I'm a binge listener... an album ends, the next one begins. Am I the only one that needs to let it all sink in for a moment after Astonishing ends, and revel in the beauty of what has just happened rather than going immediately on to some other music?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: earlilano on May 08, 2016, 11:37:39 AM
I know there are varied opinions on The Astonishing as an album but i wanted to share something Mike Mangini told me last night at the meet and greet that really stuck to me. Pardon my ignorance if this has been shared before in this thread or in an interview. I told Mike and other band members that I did not listen to the album before the show and I wanted to feel that feeling I had when I first listened to dream theater. Mike told me that the album was made to be seen. That statement just stuck with me during the concert and I think I agree that this album was made to be seen and made the music and the concert so much better in my opinion.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on May 08, 2016, 12:43:11 PM
I know there are varied opinions on The Astonishing as an album but i wanted to share something Mike Mangini told me last night at the meet and greet that really stuck to me. Pardon my ignorance if this has been shared before in this thread or in an interview. I told Mike and other band members that I did not listen to the album before the show and I wanted to feel that feeling I had when I first listened to dream theater. Mike told me that the album was made to be seen. That statement just stuck with me during the concert and I think I agree that this album was made to be seen and made the music and the concert so much better in my opinion.

To be completely honest, even though I love TA, the idea of making a MUSIC album to be SEEN is ridiculously stupid imo.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on May 08, 2016, 01:05:25 PM
Just finished another run of The Astonishing.

Whenever I have time to listen to music, I'm a binge listener... an album ends, the next one begins. Am I the only one that needs to let it all sink in for a moment after Astonishing ends, and revel in the beauty of what has just happened rather than going immediately on to some other music?

Yeah, it feels a bit too grand to immedietely go "ok, next album".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on May 08, 2016, 02:04:09 PM
Makes you wonder what DT will do next time.

Will be weird releasing another album of 7 eight minute songs and a 20 minute epic.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on May 08, 2016, 03:00:31 PM
Makes you wonder what DT will do next time.

Will be weird releasing another album of 7 eight minute songs and a 20 minute epic.

Would like them to do their own "Tales from Topographic Oceans" with a bunch of epics with unique structures and a loose concept. That or a more compact album in the vein of Train of Thought with song lengths of 3-8 mins.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on May 08, 2016, 04:24:11 PM
Would like for them to get Nolly Getgood and make an album that actually sounds good in all aspects. :neverusethis:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: goo-goo on May 08, 2016, 05:09:35 PM
Would like for them to get Nolly Getgood and make an album that actually sounds good in all aspects. :neverusethis:

What other albums has he engineered? I only know the Periphery stuff and I think he engineered the next Devin Townsend album..other than that, what else is out there engineered by him?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on May 08, 2016, 05:35:34 PM
Would like for them to get Nolly Getgood and make an album that actually sounds good in all aspects. :neverusethis:

What other albums has he engineered? I only know the Periphery stuff and I think he engineered the next Devin Townsend album..other than that, what else is out there engineered by him?

Joy of Motion from Animals As Leaders (along with Misha) and the Good Tiger album. There are a few more I think but I can't recall them.
Anyways every single album where he has been part of the production team sounds phenomenal.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on May 09, 2016, 02:10:02 AM
Mike Mangini is human.

From his FB page:

Fan: Great show in Cincinnati..noticed you came in early on a build in Ravinskill..it's reassuring to me as a drummer to know even the BEST can't be flawless all the time.

MM:I did. JP and I were laughing onstage... I was daydreaming and looking at all the lights and ... not kidding, was thinking, "All these NFL and NHL cities have these insane crowds. How cool?" and then I forgot where I was and bamm... John giggled, so did I, and I'm glad you caught it. I don't know why, but I'll remember that more than the 676,443 hits that were dead on the click. I don't remember them.

Also, interesting tidbit by MM on how he composed his drum parts for The Astonishing:

MM:  I also want you to know, if you don't already, that my prep for the Astonishing was done on my 4-Piece E-Pro kit... yes, I did not learn ONE song as to play it. has the 4 hihats and 2 rides for my key signature matching playing. All I did was jam grooves. I made notes for 5 songs on paper, but I improvised this whole album having no clue what the words or vocals would be. Still... when the guys span their instruments from hight to low, I span the kit from high to low (pitch wise.) I suppose you want to know the songs I made notation notes on so I could coordinate my body: Walking Shadow + Last Farewell, Path that Divides, New Beginning and Moment of Betrayal. Just know my DT kit is very hard on the shoulders and upper legs. So what :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on May 09, 2016, 09:58:58 AM
Makes you wonder what DT will do next time.

Will be weird releasing another album of 7 eight minute songs and a 20 minute epic.
Would like them to do their own "Tales from Topographic Oceans" with a bunch of epics with unique structures and a loose concept. That or a more compact album in the vein of Train of Thought with song lengths of 3-8 mins.
Oh man.  What I would give for a TFTO-style four-sider from DT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 09, 2016, 10:51:48 AM
Saw the show in Oakland last night, and I just have to say:  This album was really meant to be experienced live.  The Youtube clips cannot do the performance and stage production justice at all. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 09, 2016, 11:16:20 AM
Saw the show in Oakland last night, and I just have to say:  This album was really meant to be experienced live.  The Youtube clips cannot do the performance and stage production justice at all.
That's great to hear. 

Since they apparently won't come anywhere near me (again), hopefully they change their mind a little and record one of the shows for release on Blu-ray.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 09, 2016, 11:36:16 AM
They are definitely planning on filming.  They just have not decided on some logistics and other creative decisions.  So, yes, anyone who has not been able to see this tour will still get to see it. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on May 09, 2016, 11:38:44 AM
They are definitely planning on filming.  They just have not decided on some logistics and other creative decisions.  So, yes, anyone who has not been able to see this tour will still get to see it.

That's good to hear! It was a great show and should definitely be captured properly.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 09, 2016, 11:46:43 AM
They are definitely planning on filming.  They just have not decided on some logistics and other creative decisions.  So, yes, anyone who has not been able to see this tour will still get to see it.
Ah, fantastic!  I had not heard that!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 09, 2016, 11:51:37 AM
I don't think it has been officially stated, but I asked JP last night and he said it is definitely a yes. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 09, 2016, 11:54:08 AM
I don't think it has been officially stated, but I asked JP last night and he said it is definitely a yes.
:happydance:

:djhef:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on May 09, 2016, 12:11:57 PM
I assume they would use this first round of concerts to take note of their favorite venues, be it for the aesthetics or just for the sound quality.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 09, 2016, 12:18:51 PM
I assume they would use this first round of concerts to take note of their favorite venues, be it for the aesthetics or just for the sound quality.
I hadn't thought about that, but that's actually an interesting thought.  For northern California, I think they have definitely found a new favorite.  This is the first time they have played the Fox Theater in Oakland, and it is a GORGEOUS theater--probably the nicest I have ever been in.  Apparently, it sat abandoned for 43 years, and it was completely restored and reopened in 2009.  JP and James both commented on how much they loved it, and James in particular said he likes it a LOT better than the Warfield in SF (which has been their go-to for years). 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on May 09, 2016, 02:10:07 PM
The Youtube clips cannot do the performance and stage production justice at all.

Definitely. Happy to see that a DVD will come of this.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: pantsofeternity on May 09, 2016, 05:33:43 PM
Great new live video for Our New World! This was recorded in Milan, and features footage from the 18th and 19th March shows. Damn, I squandered my chance to appear on a DT video getting tickets for the March 17th show :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnLdx2FyNqg

MVP: Mike Mangini's rec specs
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on May 09, 2016, 09:55:30 PM
I'm happy because just 20 minutes ago I was able to buy my ticket for the show in Luna Park next month. I also have my bus ticket (since I don't live in Buenos Aires), so I'm pretty much ready to go. Of course, I'll feel much better once I have the actual ticket in my hands (and once the bus actually arrives in Buenos Aires). Still, this is a start!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 10, 2016, 06:34:15 AM
I don't think it has been officially stated, but I asked JP last night and he said it is definitely a yes.

 :metal :metal :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on May 10, 2016, 11:03:13 AM
To those who have seen the show: Am I the only one who thought it was completely asinine for them to say goodnight after Our New World and then come out for the "encore" and do the last 2 tracks?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on May 10, 2016, 11:20:48 AM
To those who have seen the show: Am I the only one who thought it was completely asinine for them to say goodnight after Our New World and then come out for the "encore" and do the last 2 tracks?

I haven't seen it because they never came to Vancouver, but yes, that seems pretty dumb.  In fact, that's even dumb for a regular concert where all bands pretend its over and then - surprise! - its not!  Haven't we done that to death?  Particularly dumb in this case.

Anyways, just wanted to chime in and say I cant believe I am still loving this album as much as I am.  Its almost been the only thing I've listened to since it was released and am not bored of it at all.  The melodies are always floating around in my head.  My favorite album of all time.  The only bummer is, the next album is sure to be a let down after this.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on May 10, 2016, 11:51:58 AM
To those who have seen the show: Am I the only one who thought it was completely asinine for them to say goodnight after Our New World and then come out for the "encore" and do the last 2 tracks?

I suggested this and we had a big debate in this thread I think - that people prefer the charade of there being an encore even though you get the exact same show if they walk off stage or not.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: earlilano on May 10, 2016, 11:52:47 AM
To those who have seen the show: Am I the only one who thought it was completely asinine for them to say goodnight after Our New World and then come out for the "encore" and do the last 2 tracks?

Everyone does the fake encore now. I personally hate it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 10, 2016, 11:57:28 AM
To those who have seen the show: Am I the only one who thought it was completely asinine for them to say goodnight after Our New World and then come out for the "encore" and do the last 2 tracks?

Everyone does the fake encore now. I personally hate it.

For the first show of this tour, they played every song, and left without doing an encore. Some members of the audience reacted negatively, so the band decided to make ONW the set ender and Astonishing the "encore".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 10, 2016, 12:00:03 PM
To those who have seen the show: Am I the only one who thought it was completely asinine for them to say goodnight after Our New World and then come out for the "encore" and do the last 2 tracks?

No, because:
(1) Like it or not, the "traditional" and expected concert structure is to include an encore, even though it is almost always completely pre-planned.  And
(2) The reason they are doing that is because fans specifically requested that after the first show on the tour when they were not doing the "mock encore" and a good chunk of people in the audience were confused and didn't like that structure.

So, no, it's not "completely asinine."  What is asinine is calling out the band for doing something the fans wanted in the first place.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 10, 2016, 12:18:16 PM
I like it a lot.  No encore just feels weird and if the band is to chose to not play anything else, than this is the best way to do it.

Sure, it's stupid to say goodnight when everyone knows they are coming back, but that is normal and typical of a headlining act.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on May 10, 2016, 12:21:43 PM
I was there on that first night, and I think there was a significant number of "casual" fans that either hadn't heard the album, or weren't aware of how it was going to be presented. I overheard a few "Is that the end" type comments, and a couple of idiots booed when the band didn't come back out again.

One other possible factor is that the first show was 3 weeks after the album was released, so perhaps this wasn't enough time for folks to absorb the album, the concept, and the buzz around it.

I knew there would be no encore, so I had no problem with it, but as you say, it's what's generally expected, for better or worse.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 10, 2016, 12:23:32 PM
I personally would prefer no "encore" for this show, but I absolutely have no problem with whatever the band decides is best.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on May 10, 2016, 01:27:34 PM
To those who have seen the show: Am I the only one who thought it was completely asinine for them to say goodnight after Our New World and then come out for the "encore" and do the last 2 tracks?

No, because:
(1) Like it or not, the "traditional" and expected concert structure is to include an encore, even though it is almost always completely pre-planned.  And
(2) The reason they are doing that is because fans specifically requested that after the first show on the tour when they were not doing the "mock encore" and a good chunk of people in the audience were confused and didn't like that structure.

So, no, it's not "completely asinine."  What is asinine is calling out the band for doing something the fans wanted in the first place.

Didn't mean any disrespect, just thought it was kind of odd
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: IdoSC on May 10, 2016, 02:48:12 PM
To those who have seen the show: Am I the only one who thought it was completely asinine for them to say goodnight after Our New World and then come out for the "encore" and do the last 2 tracks?
They only do it because people actually sit there and wait, and eventually call boo, if they don't. They did the first show or two of this tour without the whole charade, and many people were booing, some for real and some as a joke. You can't force every single concert goer to read the ticket and see that it says "The Astonishing Live" or check details online so they just added the stupid charade.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CB on May 10, 2016, 03:03:04 PM
I think Astonishing works an "encore" because Our New World is a perfect song to end the show, they didn't cut the story line just to get an encore. Otherwise it would have been impossible. I prefer this to an unrelated encore, that would feel wrong to me, like performing an aria from a different opera after an opera performance or just some unrelated song after a musical show.
DTs encores are usually planned. Of course I'd like to be surprised, but at the last tour the half hour long SFAM encore was a highlight of the show for me, so I don't complain (as long as DT continues to play long shows)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 10, 2016, 03:05:22 PM
Astonishing is the song where all the actors on the stage come out, sing and take their bows. It works fine.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on May 10, 2016, 03:36:56 PM
Watched the video for Our New World, I liked it! it was nicely shot and composed, it's a good presentation for the band. And of course it brought back good memories of having actually been there.

Anyway, notice those light panels on the walls? I had one of them in front of me, 'cause my seat was the very leftmost on the above balconies. Damn, what a pain was to strech to my right to actually see Jordan!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 10, 2016, 04:21:11 PM
Oh, that sucks.  I thought the panels were awesome in general, but I didn't think the ones on the side were necessary or added much. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 10, 2016, 04:22:54 PM
To those who have seen the show: Am I the only one who thought it was completely asinine for them to say goodnight after Our New World and then come out for the "encore" and do the last 2 tracks?

No, because:
(1) Like it or not, the "traditional" and expected concert structure is to include an encore, even though it is almost always completely pre-planned.  And
(2) The reason they are doing that is because fans specifically requested that after the first show on the tour when they were not doing the "mock encore" and a good chunk of people in the audience were confused and didn't like that structure.

So, no, it's not "completely asinine."  What is asinine is calling out the band for doing something the fans wanted in the first place.

Didn't mean any disrespect, just thought it was kind of odd

Okay, that's fine.  It just annoyed me that you called it "asinine."  You could have just said that you don't get it or that it seemed odd. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on May 10, 2016, 04:40:31 PM
Why are people shocked that a band has an on core and it's a last song when they are only playing only the album? 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 10, 2016, 04:57:40 PM
Because people just don't have the time for encores anymore.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on May 10, 2016, 04:58:28 PM
I demand an encore.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 10, 2016, 04:59:16 PM
The credits roll on the screens at the end is also a nice effect.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on May 10, 2016, 05:34:15 PM
Sure was. They got the "play" feeling down perfect.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: darkshade on May 10, 2016, 06:35:04 PM
DT should play the opening 3 tracks, walk off stage, then come back and James would say "Thanks guys, it's been a great evening, drive home safe" and the band proceeds to play the rest of the album as their encore. They can eat their cake and not encore the title track.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on May 10, 2016, 07:11:16 PM
Sure was. They got the "play" feeling down perfect.

That was cool. I was savoring every moment cuz there's probably never gonna be a show like this from them. 10/10
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on May 11, 2016, 02:43:17 AM
Talking about the end of the show, anyone else went completely nuts (the hype of the show and album finishing surely helped) when the Majesty symbol appeared on screen?  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on May 12, 2016, 07:04:00 PM
Pretty sure my fave vocal passage on TA is in MLF beginning with "Don't leave me now . . . ". There are a ton of others.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: AngelBack on May 13, 2016, 08:54:16 AM
Pretty sure my fave vocal passage on TA is in MLF beginning with "Don't leave me now . . . ". There are a ton of others.

Mine too, James tone and emotion on those few lines rivals his best to me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BelichickFan on May 13, 2016, 09:57:33 AM
Pretty sure my fave vocal passage on TA is in MLF beginning with "Don't leave me now . . . ". There are a ton of others.
Mine is :

Gabriel, my son
I see the tide is turning
Can the Chosen One
Keep her fire burning?
I would trade my life
Just for one last moment

Use your gift, I beg
Make life begin again
Make life begin again!


Yum.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on May 13, 2016, 12:04:31 PM
Pretty sure my fave vocal passage on TA is in MLF beginning with "Don't leave me now . . . ". There are a ton of others.
Mine is :

Gabriel, my son
I see the tide is turning
Can the Chosen One
Keep her fire burning?
I would trade my life
Just for one last moment

Use your gift, I beg
Make life begin again
Make life begin again!


Yum.

I have many vocal favs on TA also, but the one that always sticks when I am pissed is..

Heed my words
Justice will be served


 :xbones
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on May 13, 2016, 06:30:39 PM
Fav vocal lines would be the exchange between Arhys and Faythe in Ravenskill. Amazing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on May 13, 2016, 09:30:09 PM
Apart from those mentioned, my favourite vocal line is in Lord Nafaryus. JLB's theatrical delivery on "Such a foolish young man/Doesn't seem to understand", then the evil streak comes in on "So let me be perfectly clear!"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on May 14, 2016, 10:05:49 AM
It is a slightly girly passage, but I really like "There's a reeeeeason now I see" and the variations.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on May 14, 2016, 10:22:56 AM
It's funny that the Astonishing pre-release thread took c. 2½ months (Nov 6-Jan 21) to reach 200 pages, and this post-release thread has taken 3½ months (Jan 29-present) and counting just to reach 100 pages. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on May 14, 2016, 11:39:14 AM
Pretty sure my fave vocal passage on TA is in MLF beginning with "Don't leave me now . . . ". There are a ton of others.
The little flair he puts on "now" is awesome!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on May 14, 2016, 11:54:13 AM
Yep, that's a very subtle touch.

I have way too many favorite James moments on the albums. I would probably toss a coin to pick between "Open eyes, help me see which choice is right!" and the entire "How dare you step inside my home?" section.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ReaPsTA on May 15, 2016, 05:22:39 PM
Pretty sure my fave vocal passage on TA is in MLF beginning with "Don't leave me now . . . ". There are a ton of others.

This one's great.

I have to give the cop out answer and say there's too many to pick a best one. Although my favorite right now is near the end of Path That Divides, the "You dare defy your prince" part. Does a really good job with the character and his delivery's really intense and menacing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on May 16, 2016, 05:23:25 AM
Has anyone else noticed the tiny fact that every other person is mentioned by name at some point,but Daryus and Xander are always just called sons?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on May 16, 2016, 05:26:55 AM
I did notice that. I'm guessing wherever their name was required, "son" made the lyrics flow better.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on May 16, 2016, 06:17:34 AM
Has anyone else noticed the tiny fact that every other person in mentioned by name at some point,but Daryus and Xander are always just called sons?
Xander is mentioned, in "The Path That Divides":

- By the Narrator, although not by his full name ('Confused and deathly afraid, X watched his hero be brave')
- By Daryus ('Well, you just threw your life away, along with Xander's dreams')

But yeah, Daryus is never mentioned, I think.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: V_R11 on May 16, 2016, 09:39:13 AM
Has anyone else noticed the tiny fact that every other person is mentioned by name at some point,but Daryus and Xander are always just called sons?
Xander is mentioned, in "The Path That Divides":

- By the Narrator, although not by his full name ('Confused and deathly afraid, X watched his hero be brave')
- By Daryus ('Well, you just threw your life away, along with Xander's dreams')

But yeah, Daryus is never mentioned, I think.

Damn it,I did a quick scan through the lyrics before posting this, and forgot about those parts in TPTD  :lol :facepalm:
But they never mention Daryus by name. Just a little thing that caught my eye
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 16, 2016, 10:05:26 AM
Xander's name is uttered in "A Tempting Offer" as well.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 16, 2016, 10:50:00 AM
Xander's name is uttered in "A Tempting Offer" as well.

"and best of all, Xandar would be free" I think is the line
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 16, 2016, 10:59:35 AM
Xander's name is uttered in "A Tempting Offer" as well.

"and best of all, Xandar would be free" I think is the line

He'll never want again....it's such an easy choice...

Love that song and James' delivery in it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 16, 2016, 11:12:50 AM
A Tempting Offer is one of my favorites off the album. The chord progression is so amazing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 16, 2016, 11:25:01 AM
A Tempting Offer is one of my favorites off the album. The chord progression is so amazing.
Agreed.  I hate to keep repeating myself, but the 4 song run from Ravenskill through The X Aspect (excluding the NOMAC interlude as a "song") is my favorite part of the album.  Those 4 are among the strongest on the album, and to have them back to back is just incredible.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on May 16, 2016, 11:45:42 AM
Today I was listening to the album going to and back from work. I take the subway which at a certain point, in the suburbs, comes up from the ground and travels at street level. The exact moment during Losing Faythe when the "Gabriel, my son" part comes in, the subway came up in the surface and I was greeted by the cool late evening sun. It was a glorious moment  :D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dirty30 on May 16, 2016, 01:58:26 PM
Having a twenty-one year old daughter, I absolutely love how James sings: "To think I didn't notice the way you looked at her! Now come down from your throne and let me bring you back to earth." The menace in his voice captures a doting father perfectly.    :yarr
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on May 16, 2016, 01:59:55 PM
Xander's name is uttered in "A Tempting Offer" as well.

"and best of all, Xandar would be free" I think is the line

I remember it now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on May 16, 2016, 02:20:53 PM
A Tempting Offer is one of my favorites off the album. The chord progression is so amazing.
Agreed.  I hate to keep repeating myself, but the 4 song run from Ravenskill through The X Aspect (excluding the NOMAC interlude as a "song") is my favorite part of the album.  Those 4 are among the strongest on the album, and to have them back to back is just incredible.

OK, so I LOVE The Astonishing. But I also feel that the criticisms of too many slow parts is totally fair. And this passage is an example. I feel like Chosen, which by itself is a fine song, breaks up that whole passage and makes it feel a little choppy.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 16, 2016, 02:21:21 PM
Having a twenty-one year old daughter, I absolutely love how James sings: "To think I didn't notice the way you looked at her! Now come down from your throne and let me bring you back to earth." The menace in his voice captures a doting father perfectly.    :yarr

Do you have a pic?  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: emtee on May 16, 2016, 02:21:58 PM
A Tempting Offer is one of my favorites off the album. The chord progression is so amazing.
Agreed.  I hate to keep repeating myself, but the 4 song run from Ravenskill through The X Aspect (excluding the NOMAC interlude as a "song") is my favorite part of the album.  Those 4 are among the strongest on the album, and to have them back to back is just incredible.

I would expand that to include A Life Left Behind thru A New Beginning. Easily my favorite part of the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 16, 2016, 02:43:50 PM
A Tempting Offer is one of my favorites off the album. The chord progression is so amazing.
Agreed.  I hate to keep repeating myself, but the 4 song run from Ravenskill through The X Aspect (excluding the NOMAC interlude as a "song") is my favorite part of the album.  Those 4 are among the strongest on the album, and to have them back to back is just incredible.

OK, so I LOVE The Astonishing. But I also feel that the criticisms of too many slow parts is totally fair. And this passage is an example. I feel like Chosen, which by itself is a fine song, breaks up that whole passage and makes it feel a little choppy.
I disagree.  Chosen is one of my favorite ballads they have ever written.  And story-wise, I feel like it is a great interlude between Ravenskill, where we get a sense of foreboding because Faythe's and Gabriel's plan is coming together but we know Daryus' machinations are going to cause problems, and A Tempting Offer, where we see that come to fruition.  It is fitting that we get that interlude right at that spot, and Gabriel's role as the chosen one is fitting to be expanded upon at that time because his role actually is expanded by virtue of him accepting Faythe's invitation to persuade her father. 

In contrast, Act of Faythe interrupts the flow of When Your Time Has Come and Three Days.  But the problem is, it is necessary to introduce Faythe and develop her character, and it doesn't really fit anywhere else, so it kinda gets shoehorned in.  Chosen isn't that.  It actually fits perfectly where it is.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 16, 2016, 02:45:58 PM
A Tempting Offer is one of my favorites off the album. The chord progression is so amazing.
Agreed.  I hate to keep repeating myself, but the 4 song run from Ravenskill through The X Aspect (excluding the NOMAC interlude as a "song") is my favorite part of the album.  Those 4 are among the strongest on the album, and to have them back to back is just incredible.

I would expand that to include A Life Left Behind thru A New Beginning. Easily my favorite part of the album.
A Life Left Behind is good, but doesn't quite rise to the level of the four I cited.  And while I don't dislike A New Beginning, I am not as crazy about it as some.  The latter instrumental half is really good, but the first half doesn't grab me nearly as much.  Both are still really good songs, but if I'm picking out the strongest run of songs on the album, I'm not going to include those.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on May 16, 2016, 02:58:47 PM
My favorite run would be the beginning, basically everything from the start until When your Time has Come, extend that even to Three Days.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on May 16, 2016, 03:04:06 PM
Can I pick my favorite run of songs? From Act of Faythe up to and including Ravenskill. That includes The Hovering sojourn.  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Rattlehead on May 16, 2016, 04:37:13 PM
Didn't take long for this album to become my favorite DT album since SDoIT… I was a bit late to the party as I've only had it for a little over a month, but I'm really hooked on it  :metal It kind of restored my love for the band, as I hadn't listened to them in what feels like a long time before I bought The Astonishing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on May 16, 2016, 04:42:44 PM
I always find myself listening to just 2285 Entr'acte through to The Path That Divides. That's a good run of songs!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on May 16, 2016, 08:03:26 PM
Has anyone else noticed the tiny fact that every other person is mentioned by name at some point,but Daryus and Xander are always just called sons?

As mentioned before, Xander has been mentioned. But I love how Daryus' name was never mentioned. It gives the impression of not really being cared for by Nafaryus, which is why he's always trying to prove himself to his father who obviously shows more affection for Faythe.

"And I won't have to stand
In Faythe's dark shadow anymore
I am through with being pushed aside
Tired of fighting for my father's pride"

I do find the following lines by Nafaryus in Astonishing too cold BECAUSE HE STILL PLAYS FAVORITES UNTIL THE END:

"When the light of my existence
Was slipping through my hands
Pride and ignorance receded
To reveal the humbled man

My prince, my son
You got lost along the way
In light of this new burden that you face
You are forgiven at this day!"

Bad father!  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 17, 2016, 05:15:28 AM
Has anyone else noticed the tiny fact that every other person is mentioned by name at some point,but Daryus and Xander are always just called sons?

As mentioned before, Xander has been mentioned. But I love how Daryus' name was never mentioned. It gives the impression of not really being cared for by Nafaryus, which is why he's always trying to prove himself to his father who obviously shows more affection for Faythe.

"And I won't have to stand
In Faythe's dark shadow anymore
I am through with being pushed aside
Tired of fighting for my father's pride"

I do find the following lines by Nafaryus in Astonishing too cold BECAUSE HE STILL PLAYS FAVORITES UNTIL THE END:

"When the light of my existence
Was slipping through my hands
Pride and ignorance receded
To reveal the humbled man

My prince, my son
You got lost along the way
In light of this new burden that you face
You are forgiven at this day!"

Bad father!  :lol

The part about Daryus is sung/spoken by Arabelle. The storytelling seemed to have her the one who would typically talk to him.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on May 20, 2016, 10:23:22 AM
I find it funny Act of Faythe and A Life left Behind both start with "I never knew."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on May 20, 2016, 11:24:36 AM
A Tempting Offer is one of my favorites off the album. The chord progression is so amazing.
Agreed.  I hate to keep repeating myself, but the 4 song run from Ravenskill through The X Aspect (excluding the NOMAC interlude as a "song") is my favorite part of the album.  Those 4 are among the strongest on the album, and to have them back to back is just incredible.
I agree completely, except I would actually extend it to A Lie Left Behind also.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dtvoices94 on May 20, 2016, 12:13:49 PM
My favorite since Six Degrees.  Truthfully, all I skip are the Nomac interludes.  I love the varied instruments, Jordan's piano work, the vocal performance from James, and of course John's other worldly guitar playing.  That said, I think I'm more forgiving about what I don't like on the album since it's a one-off and so extremely different from the rest of the catalog.
Is it top five for me?  I'm not sure yet but I do know that since January 29th (after countess listens + 1 live show), my interest has not yet waned.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 20, 2016, 01:45:15 PM
my interest has not yet waned.

neither has mine.  I took a break after seeing the show because I had listened so much at that point, but I still find myself playing it fairly regularly. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on May 20, 2016, 03:24:04 PM
It's weird when you're sure a singer sings something and when you see the official lyrics - it's nothing like what you thought.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on May 20, 2016, 04:01:25 PM
It's weird when you're sure a singer sings something and when you see the official lyrics - it's nothing like what you thought.

Which song/lyric are you thinking of?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DragonAttack on May 20, 2016, 04:35:36 PM
Switching modes for a second:  my wife and I listened to the whole album (in three segments) before seeing the concert.  We listened to my one disc edited 'abridged' version on the way to and on the way home. 

But I have not listened to anything from TA since that night, other than a very nice fan combo mix of 'Our New World'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXk_VyRtZM

Which is a shame.  For eons, I see a band, I play a ton of what I've heard, or search for an album or two and replay the moments.
The music is tremendous on this release..  It is top five in their catalogue, but rather disjointed.  And TOO much perhaps?

Anyone else in the same boat?

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on May 20, 2016, 04:40:53 PM
It's weird when you're sure a singer sings something and when you see the official lyrics - it's nothing like what you thought.

Which song/lyric are you thinking of?

In Lord Nafaryus - it sounded like " The (something) fearless ruler of the realm "

it's actually " Into the farthest reaches of the land "....
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 20, 2016, 06:28:53 PM
It's weird when you're sure a singer sings something and when you see the official lyrics - it's nothing like what you thought.
The first time I listened to this album without lyrics I could've sworn by my first born that on The Walking Shadow JLB was singing 'WHAT HAAVE YOU DOOONE, MY SON IS DEAAAAD!" which I interpreted as Arabelle lamenting the death of Daryus or something like that.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on May 21, 2016, 07:18:22 AM
I had a similar problem with the high section of Lord Nafaryus. It's very clearly sung without any rasp, so I was sure that part was sung by Arabelle. Even some of the words are accentuated rather femininely.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on May 21, 2016, 01:02:42 PM
The fact that Daryus is not mentioned by name, by either of his parents is reason for him to feel that Faythe is the "favourite child", fuelling his jealousy and desire to capture Gabriel and stop the revolution.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 22, 2016, 02:21:29 PM
The fact that Daryus is not mentioned by name, by either of his parents is reason for him to feel that Faythe is the "favourite child", fuelling his jealousy and desire to capture Gabriel and stop the revolution.

Agreed
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: darkshade on May 22, 2016, 05:21:45 PM
What is everybody's 1 disc super version of the album? I've been thinking I want to listen to it that way, the album is too damn long, and I listen to The Flower Kings. I'll listen digitally so it can go over 1:20:00 standard length of a CD.

I listened to TA earlier and I felt some tracks clicked, I think the bloat has kept me from getting into anything, the parts and sections keep moving along, and you kind of get lost for a while. But today I started noticing returning themes, and whatnot. I got really into the opening 4 tracks this time, and a couple other songs started really clicking. Mind, I have only listened to it once every week or so, on average; and didn't listen to it in April, so this may be the longest I've taken getting really into a new Dream Theater album since my fandom began. I feel like the best of the best material on one disc would make a sick album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on May 22, 2016, 07:49:22 PM
What is everybody's 1 disc super version of the album? I've been thinking I want to listen to it that way, the album is too damn long, and I listen to The Flower Kings. I'll listen digitally so it can go over 1:20:00 standard length of a CD.

If you are into the narrative, this one has the major plot points covered. 1 hour, 24 minutes and 41 seconds so just over one CD long:

Dystopian Overture
The Gift of Music
A Savior in the Square
When Your Time has Come
Act of Faythe
Three Days
A Life Left Behind
Ravenskill
Chosen
A Tempting Offer
A New Beginning
Moment of Betrayal
The Path that Divides
The Walking Shadow
My Last Farewell
Losing Faythe
Hymn of a Thousand Voices
Our New World

If you are into listening to the best songs, though, you have to get A Better Life and Lord Nafaryus in there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on May 22, 2016, 09:05:22 PM
What is everybody's 1 disc super version of the album? I've been thinking I want to listen to it that way, the album is too damn long, and I listen to The Flower Kings. I'll listen digitally so it can go over 1:20:00 standard length of a CD.

Honestly I would just take the entire first disc and then a couple selections from the second, pick your favorites. I'd personally go with Entr'acte, Moment of Betrayal, Begin Again, Our New World, and Astonishing. So much flab on that second disc.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on May 22, 2016, 09:09:16 PM
What is everybody's 1 disc super version of the album? I've been thinking I want to listen to it that way, the album is too damn long, and I listen to The Flower Kings. I'll listen digitally so it can go over 1:20:00 standard length of a CD.

Honestly I would just take the entire first disc and then a couple selections from the second, pick your favorites. I'd personally go with Entr'acte, Moment of Betrayal, Begin Again, Our New World, and Astonishing. So much flab on that second disc.

Agreed.  I love everything on the first disc now, and while there is nothing on the second I actively dislike, there are only a few songs I repeatedly go back to.  And I don't care a wit about the story, so losing songs that might be integral to it doesn't bother me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: darkshade on May 23, 2016, 08:24:11 AM
I find that the album gets a little slow towards the end of the first disc, minus the last 2 tracks. Disc 2 suffers from the same problems as disc 1, but takes less time thankfully.

I wish there was a track that gave you a break from the sound of the album, like a jam section or having track like Power Down as a 'real' song, using all the effects on the track. It would be completely different from the rest of the album, but I think it would make the entire listening experience better.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 23, 2016, 08:58:28 AM
Not sure I would want a one-disc version.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on May 23, 2016, 10:01:48 AM
This thread finally reached the 100 page mark.. This is epic in itself, time to open a beer!  :metal :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on May 23, 2016, 11:24:07 AM
Not sure I would want a one-disc version.
Same here. Although I have my lesser favorites, I certainly wouldn't vibe with a so much shorter version.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on May 23, 2016, 01:10:21 PM
There are already 11 single-disc DT albums. TA is great as it is. If it was a matter of choosing, I would prefer it to be longer than shorter.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 23, 2016, 01:13:52 PM
Yup.  I still think a track early on in Act II about the fighting between the common folk and the GNE would have been cool and added just a bit more depth and dimension to the story, while also serving to make Act II just feel a bit more meaty and adding balance between the two acts.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 23, 2016, 02:31:40 PM
Yup.  I still think a track early on in Act II about the fighting between the common folk and the GNE would have been cool and added just a bit more depth and dimension to the story, while also serving to make Act II just feel a bit more meaty and adding balance between the two acts.

I think the fact that act 2 is so much shorter than act 1 makes me feel like going longer than shorter would have been better.  Totally would add some more depth to act 2 with a heavier song towards the end if it were my choice.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on May 23, 2016, 02:43:40 PM
100 pages later, still in love with this album  :metal

I agree that the album is a bit unbalanced, act II is too short and takes place in a too much short time, but all in all the very little downsides of the album are far outweighed by the many excellent things about it  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on May 24, 2016, 08:33:53 AM
I must say... A couple dozen listens in, and I've grown to absolutely love The Astonishing. It's such a unique experience. I can't think of any other album off the top of my head that meets all of the following criteria:

- Is a musical/rock opera/whatever you want to call it
- Touches on classical, electronic, folk, metal, prog, and spiritual music
- Has production values so ridiculously high

I think it's a pretty amazing achievement. Hell, even Mrs. TOX enjoyed it as she loves musicals. :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on May 24, 2016, 03:25:50 PM
I was totally hoping a "My brother Gabriel is all the hope..." TGOM reprise at Astonishing, was a colossal letdown when it didn't happen.
I think the issue with the last part of the album is that it lacks this anthemic feel that TGOM sets, sure, it's awesome at Hymn of a Thousand Voices, but that's pretty much it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on May 24, 2016, 03:28:54 PM
I was totally hoping a "My brother Gabriel is all the hope..." TGOM reprise at Astonishing, was a colossal letdown when it didn't happen.
I think the issue with the last part of the album is that it lacks this anthemic feel that TGOM sets, sure, it's awesome at Hymn of a Thousand Voices, but that's pretty much it.

If Hymn of a Thousand Voices is supposed to be an anthemic climax then LOL
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on May 24, 2016, 03:47:21 PM
I was totally hoping a "My brother Gabriel is all the hope..." TGOM reprise at Astonishing, was a colossal letdown when it didn't happen.
I think the issue with the last part of the album is that it lacks this anthemic feel that TGOM sets, sure, it's awesome at Hymn of a Thousand Voices, but that's pretty much it.

If Hymn of a Thousand Voices is supposed to be an anthemic climax then LOL
HTV is totally anthemic, just not in the same way as TGOM
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on May 25, 2016, 12:22:33 AM
I was totally hoping a "My brother Gabriel is all the hope..." TGOM reprise at Astonishing, was a colossal letdown when it didn't happen.
I think the issue with the last part of the album is that it lacks this anthemic feel that TGOM sets, sure, it's awesome at Hymn of a Thousand Voices, but that's pretty much it.

For me, the ending is pretty anthemic, specifically the following:

The ending of Hymn of a Thousand Voices
Our New World, which really feels like a 90s rock anthem
The ending of The Astonishing "Eternally in harmony..." is really an epic closer
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: tristl on May 25, 2016, 01:09:54 AM
Yup.  I still think a track early on in Act II about the fighting between the common folk and the GNE would have been cool and added just a bit more depth and dimension to the story, while also serving to make Act II just feel a bit more meaty and adding balance between the two acts.

Yes you are absolutley right, there is something missing in act ll.
But still, after i heard the astonishing the first time i thought it will never be one of my favourites.
Since then i've seen it two times live and listened to it more then then to any other album in the first months. i just love it, my employees are happy, they like it much more than zhe other dt stuff, let alone mastodon, lamb of gods, nevermore etc ;D
my girl friend likes it, was in both concerts too, and the other day when i drove my girlfriends eleven year old son to school he turned on the cd player and listened to " brother can you hear me" its his favourite :o
so well done dt, even if i am looking forward to a little heavier new dt album which james promised to me at the m&g in frankfurt :hefdaddy
The astonishing will always be one of my top ten albums :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 25, 2016, 01:27:40 AM
I was totally hoping a "My brother Gabriel is all the hope..." TGOM reprise at Astonishing, was a colossal letdown when it didn't happen.
I think the issue with the last part of the album is that it lacks this anthemic feel that TGOM sets, sure, it's awesome at Hymn of a Thousand Voices, but that's pretty much it.

For me, the ending is pretty anthemic, specifically the following:

The ending of Hymn of a Thousand Voices
Our New World, which really feels like a 90s rock anthem
The ending of The Astonishing "Eternally in harmony..." is really an epic closer

I think differently on this.  My biggest fault of the album is that I feel it ends with a dud.  Granted, Our New World has grown some real good appreciation after seeing it live.  I never disliked it, I just wasn't blown away and honestly feel this should have been the way the album goes out, with a rock anthem.  The Astonishing (song) really just doesn't do anything for me and Hymn is a good song, but the ending with everyone singing makes sense to the story but actually hearing that as the album is closing is kind of boring in a way to me.  I just like an awesome closing and DT albums have usually had this, this time I was not impressed from the music perspective (storytelling is just fine in these last songs).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on May 25, 2016, 05:56:41 AM
I think Dream Theater officially reached their anthemic peak with the Brother can you hear me theme. Truly glorious.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on May 25, 2016, 07:36:51 AM
This is weird:

"Dream Theater’s world tour in support of The Astonishing ends in South America in July."

(source: https://teamrock.com/news/2016-05-24/dream-theater-the-astonishing-follow-up-no-concept-album-jordan-rudess (https://teamrock.com/news/2016-05-24/dream-theater-the-astonishing-follow-up-no-concept-album-jordan-rudess))

I know the album trailer states implies that there will be further touring for the album in 2017, and I know they haven't played Japan, Australia, the south of the States, etc. That's why I think it's weird.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: goo-goo on May 25, 2016, 08:05:54 AM
My guess is that they are going to do another touring cycle with selected songs from The Astonishing and other albums. I don't think the touring cycle is over for this album but will not play the TA album completely.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on May 25, 2016, 08:17:29 AM
Wasn't bosk himself that reported that Petrucci told him that it's a too much expensive production to use it one time only? I assume there will be more full Astonishing shows, we'll see I guess...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: barho on May 25, 2016, 09:41:17 AM
Wasn't bosk himself that reported that Petrucci told him that it's a too much expensive production to use it one time only? I assume there will be more full Astonishing shows, we'll see I guess...

"Yes, we shall see"  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 25, 2016, 09:42:44 AM
I don't remember saying exactly that.  But what I did say is that JP said they had plans to definitely film and release a performance.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on May 25, 2016, 09:58:10 AM
I may remember wrong, of course. I do remember however *someone* (Noxon maybe?) reporting that Petrucci told him specifically that this tour was something too big and expensive to do it as a one time thing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 25, 2016, 10:25:46 AM
I was totally hoping a "My brother Gabriel is all the hope..." TGOM reprise at Astonishing, was a colossal letdown when it didn't happen.
I think the issue with the last part of the album is that it lacks this anthemic feel that TGOM sets, sure, it's awesome at Hymn of a Thousand Voices, but that's pretty much it.

For me, the ending is pretty anthemic, specifically the following:

The ending of Hymn of a Thousand Voices
Our New World, which really feels like a 90s rock anthem
The ending of The Astonishing "Eternally in harmony..." is really an epic closer
I agree 100%.  Like, I can't even understand when people say that the ending is lackluster or even that Disc 2 is weak.  I understand that opinions vary, but that just doesn't make any sense to me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on May 25, 2016, 10:31:51 AM
There are already 11 single-disc DT albums. TA is great as it is. If it was a matter of choosing, I would prefer it to be longer than shorter.

Exactly.  I don't get the people who say it is too long.  You don't have to listen to it all in one go!  I think I've done that just once, and its my favourite album ever.  One of the most varied albums ever made, and certainly DTs most varied.  Shortening it would diminish its greatest strength.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Evermind on May 25, 2016, 11:08:23 AM
Wasn't bosk himself that reported that Petrucci told him that it's a too much expensive production to use it one time only? I assume there will be more full Astonishing shows, we'll see I guess...

I'm not sure it was bosk, but I definitely remember seeing this statement somewhere on DTF.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on May 25, 2016, 02:38:45 PM
Given the lukewarm reaction by fans to the album, I wouldn't be surprised if they changed plans.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JRuless on May 25, 2016, 03:59:09 PM
Given the lukewarm reaction by fans to the album, I wouldn't be surprised if they changed plans.

lukewarm? What brings you to this conclusion?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on May 25, 2016, 04:27:09 PM
Indeed... love this album...
DTs best in a long while....
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on May 25, 2016, 04:47:11 PM
Given the lukewarm reaction by fans to the album, I wouldn't be surprised if they changed plans.

lukewarm? What brings you to this conclusion?

DT's FB being spammed by haters more often than ever would be something that supports this theory.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on May 25, 2016, 06:51:56 PM
Given the lukewarm reaction by fans to the album, I wouldn't be surprised if they changed plans.

lukewarm? What brings you to this conclusion?

For one, too many negative reviews about the shows, especially when compared to just about every other tour they've done since I've been a fan.

To jakepriest's point about FB, social media usually does bring out the loudest and biggest dopes on the net, who love to criticize, but just what I have read just about everywhere, while there are a lot of us who love the album, there are a lot who do not, and if the live shows are not getting as positive reaction as their shows usually do, which probably isn't helped by they all being seated shows, the band will notice that and adjust accordingly.  I can't imagine they would keep touring playing just this record for another year plus if the reactions aren't glowing.  They could have toured for three years straight with Scenes from a Memory, because that album pretty much got universal praise from the fans; sadly, The Astonishing has not.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on May 25, 2016, 07:02:16 PM
It seems lukewarm even on this forum. An album like The Astonishing was pretty much guaranteed to divide the fan base.

Yup.  I still think a track early on in Act II about the fighting between the common folk and the GNE would have been cool and added just a bit more depth and dimension to the story, while also serving to make Act II just feel a bit more meaty and adding balance between the two acts.
This would've actually worked well for the narrative. It isn't uncommon for the second act of a 2 act structure to open with something that doesn't focus on the main characters, but rather highlights the overarching conflict/etc, before going back to the story with the main characters. Not only does this give the audience a break from the main storyline, but it creates suspense and gives us an idea of the stakes and struggle of the story. The album is kind of missing these things, especially in the second act. It just gets too focused on the main characters and the whole conflict seems extremely small scale.

That's really nitpicking it though. The major problem with the second disc for me is that the music just isn't very interesting and it's too focused on the story. The first disc really hit that sweet spot between telling a story while also having really engaging music and the second disc dropped the ball on that. In DT's defense though, this is a pitfall of nearly every double concept album ever made.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BelichickFan on May 25, 2016, 07:27:36 PM
I love The Astonishing. Whenever I put it on, at whatever starting point, I'm blown away. That said, I'm not sure it was a great financial move. It was a costly CD to make and while ticket prices were higher, they played generally a little smaller venues, some of which weren't sold out. I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled the plug on The Astonishing tour and toured again next year in a standard format to make some money before starting the next CD in 12-18 months. I may be wrong, they may have made big money from this CD/tour but I don't think so.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on May 25, 2016, 07:41:48 PM
I was totally hoping a "My brother Gabriel is all the hope..." TGOM reprise at Astonishing, was a colossal letdown when it didn't happen.
I think the issue with the last part of the album is that it lacks this anthemic feel that TGOM sets, sure, it's awesome at Hymn of a Thousand Voices, but that's pretty much it.

For me, the ending is pretty anthemic, specifically the following:

The ending of Hymn of a Thousand Voices
Our New World, which really feels like a 90s rock anthem
The ending of The Astonishing "Eternally in harmony..." is really an epic closer
I agree 100%.  Like, I can't even understand when people say that the ending is lackluster or even that Disc 2 is weak.  I understand that opinions vary, but that just doesn't make any sense to me.

Totally agree. That run from TWS through ONW is flawless IMO.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on May 25, 2016, 07:57:07 PM
The major problem with the second disc for me is that the music just isn't very interesting and it's too focused on the story. The first disc really hit that sweet spot between telling a story while also having really engaging music and the second disc dropped the ball on that. In DT's defense though, this is a pitfall of nearly every double concept album ever made.

So true. Double concept albums like Snow and The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway have a similar format: terrific first disc; second disc that is good, but not nearly as good as the first.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 25, 2016, 08:35:29 PM
People on the internet are jerks. It's like being behind a computer entitles everyone to talk shit about anything/anyone. This is one of the few places where I can have nice conversation with people about music (prog, for example) without them going like DT SUX LAME JLB SUX HAKEN IS TEH NEW DT THEY GODS THE REST OF PROG SHIT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on May 25, 2016, 08:59:32 PM
People on the internet are jerks. It's like being behind a computer entitles everyone to talk shit about anything/anyone. This is one of the few places where I can have nice conversation with people about music (prog, for example) without them going like DT SUX LAME JLB SUX HAKEN IS TEH NEW DT THEY GODS THE REST OF PROG SHIT.
Unless you go into the Haken thread. :neverusethis:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 25, 2016, 09:03:25 PM
People on the internet are jerks. It's like being behind a computer entitles everyone to talk shit about anything/anyone. This is one of the few places where I can have nice conversation with people about music (prog, for example) without them going like DT SUX LAME JLB SUX HAKEN IS TEH NEW DT THEY GODS THE REST OF PROG SHIT.

True. I mean its cool to have negative opinions given music is subjective, but when people just say something like the example above (which is exaggeration, but we've all seen it) is when it's just annoying.  Here we can talk about the album freely given the rules of the forum, just be respectful.  The album's great if you ask me, but that doesn't mean I have some negative feelings towards different parts.  I'm still lost on how this album ranks compared to the discography, but I know it's not near the bottom nor is it near the top.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on May 25, 2016, 09:20:18 PM
I was totally hoping a "My brother Gabriel is all the hope..." TGOM reprise at Astonishing, was a colossal letdown when it didn't happen.
I think the issue with the last part of the album is that it lacks this anthemic feel that TGOM sets, sure, it's awesome at Hymn of a Thousand Voices, but that's pretty much it.

For me, the ending is pretty anthemic, specifically the following:

The ending of Hymn of a Thousand Voices
Our New World, which really feels like a 90s rock anthem
The ending of The Astonishing "Eternally in harmony..." is really an epic closer
I agree 100%.  Like, I can't even understand when people say that the ending is lackluster or even that Disc 2 is weak.  I understand that opinions vary, but that just doesn't make any sense to me.

I'm with you on that. I feel like the second half of the second disc especially is filled with such climactic events that bring the story's themes to the forefront. Between Faythe's "death", Gabriel regaining his voice, and Nefaryus' realization, the ending is laden with emotion.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on May 25, 2016, 09:40:51 PM
It seems lukewarm even on this forum. An album like The Astonishing was pretty much guaranteed to divide the fan base.

Yup.  I still think a track early on in Act II about the fighting between the common folk and the GNE would have been cool and added just a bit more depth and dimension to the story, while also serving to make Act II just feel a bit more meaty and adding balance between the two acts.
This would've actually worked well for the narrative. It isn't uncommon for the second act of a 2 act structure to open with something that doesn't focus on the main characters, but rather highlights the overarching conflict/etc, before going back to the story with the main characters. Not only does this give the audience a break from the main storyline, but it creates suspense and gives us an idea of the stakes and struggle of the story. The album is kind of missing these things, especially in the second act. It just gets too focused on the main characters and the whole conflict seems extremely small scale.

That's really nitpicking it though. The major problem with the second disc for me is that the music just isn't very interesting and it's too focused on the story. The first disc really hit that sweet spot between telling a story while also having really engaging music and the second disc dropped the ball on that. In DT's defense though, this is a pitfall of nearly every double concept album ever made.

Could not agree more. Disc 2 music is very boring. Out new world is about the only the thing good. Ī was listening today to SFAM and noticed that the lenght of it is about 70 minutes. A great concept album and TA, imo, would have been better if shorter.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on May 25, 2016, 09:57:10 PM
People on the internet are jerks. It's like being behind a computer entitles everyone to talk shit about anything/anyone. This is one of the few places where I can have nice conversation with people about music (prog, for example) without them going like DT SUX LAME JLB SUX HAKEN IS TEH NEW DT THEY GODS THE REST OF PROG SHIT.

True. I mean its cool to have negative opinions given music is subjective, but when people just say something like the example above (which is exaggeration, but we've all seen it) is when it's just annoying.  Here we can talk about the album freely given the rules of the forum, just be respectful.  The album's great if you ask me, but that doesn't mean I have some negative feelings towards different parts.  I'm still lost on how this album ranks compared to the discography, but I know it's not near the bottom nor is it near the top.

There is a lot of crap comments on Facebook, I agree. But there are a lot of positive and negative comments from people who attended the shows. Or they are all a bunch of liars?

Here it's not easy to understand what is ok or not. If you have a negative comment, be very politicaly correct about it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 25, 2016, 09:57:54 PM
There are positive comments as well, but it usually goes like this:

*In response to Rudess saying that the next album is gonna be different*
Person 1: I'm glad... because The Astonishing BLOWS. I really hope they get their shit together and write something heavy, dark with balls!! They are so lame now.
Person 2: Yeah, WTF were they thinking? DT died with Portnoy's departure
Person 3: Hey, I LOVED The Astonishing. Keep it up DT! Screw the haters.
Person 4: Last good album was Metropolis Pt. 2.

Same people that keep posting on MP's facebook page 6 years after his departure after he has stated several times that reading such comments is hurtful to some extent:
Pls come back...DT is not the same without you. OR
DT is so much better without you.

I mean, internet is a good place to be open about things but are people just that ungrateful and bitter about some things? It's music, for God's sake. It's something that exists to make our lives better, not to create a friggin' competition and hate. I don't like Beyoncé, but I don't go through life bitching about how much she sucks or how much pop music sucks or whatever. I respect and admire that her music touches the souls of so many people, and that should be enough... I mean, that's what music is about, isn't it? It's okay if you don't like a certain album or band, but you don't have to be so bitchy and vocal about it, while insulting the band's hard work (and the band themselves) on the process.

At moments, I feel that such comments fall easily under the 'HEY EVERYONE! LOOK AT ME! I HATE THIS ALBUM BECAUSE MY MUSIC TASTE IS SO REFINED AND SUPERIOR!' category, and sadly I think that many prog fans over the globe fall under that category.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on May 26, 2016, 02:45:42 AM
I really hope the band sticks to their guns and continues performing the entire album throughout the rest of the tour. It would be weird if they needed to compromise now, it's not like their other albums never divided the fan base. It's up to the band's management to find locations that are willing to bring the band even though they're performing only the new stuff and figure out how to make enough money out of it.

It was evident that there wasn't as much interest for this type of show in the Eastern Europe, that's why no Eastern Europe cities got this show. But if they come to Budapest or Vienna going "alright, we fixed the set, we'll only play some of The Astonishing, plus stuff like Pull me under, The Spirit carries on and On the backs of angels", I'd be disappointed not to see the entire rock opera the way it was intended to be seen.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on May 26, 2016, 06:11:21 AM
There are positive comments as well, but it usually goes like this:

*In response to Rudess saying that the next album is gonna be different*
Person 1: I'm glad... because The Astonishing BLOWS. I really hope they get their shit together and write something heavy, dark with balls!! They are so lame now.
Person 2: Yeah, WTF were they thinking? DT died with Portnoy's departure
Person 3: Hey, I LOVED The Astonishing. Keep it up DT! Screw the haters.
Person 4: Last good album was Metropolis Pt. 2.

Same people that keep posting on MP's facebook page 6 years after his departure after he has stated several times that reading such comments is hurtful to some extent:
Pls come back...DT is not the same without you. OR
DT is so much better without you.

I mean, internet is a good place to be open about things but are people just that ungrateful and bitter about some things? It's music, for God's sake. It's something that exists to make our lives better, not to create a friggin' competition and hate. I don't like Beyoncé, but I don't go through life bitching about how much she sucks or how much pop music sucks or whatever. I respect and admire that her music touches the souls of so many people, and that should be enough... I mean, that's what music is about, isn't it? It's okay if you don't like a certain album or band, but you don't have to be so bitchy and vocal about it, while insulting the band's hard work (and the band themselves) on the process.

At moments, I feel that such comments fall easily under the 'HEY EVERYONE! LOOK AT ME! I HATE THIS ALBUM BECAUSE MY MUSIC TASTE IS SO REFINED AND SUPERIOR!', and sadly I think that many prog fans over the globe fall under that category.

There is a distinction we have to make about FC comments.  I understand your point about Beyoucé but the fact is that you are not really interested by her music.  You won't bash, you won't love it.   People on FB bashing DT are usually people not really fans.  But many are fans and have been disappointed by the album or the show.  Their opinions has a value.  I mean, I remember when Rush did Mystics Rythms.  I could not dig that song and for a few tours they were playing it.  What? My all time fav band is now doing what? I'm sure that if FB or a online band forum would have existed back then, they would have known about it.  Even if Mystics Rythms had a nice flow and the chords together were fine, it was not something I was expecting to hear from Rush.  And I could name some others like Tai Chan or whatever it was called.

As a fan, as a client, you have the right to expose your opinions.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on May 26, 2016, 06:35:34 AM
I don't think that anyone is saying you can't expose your opinions. I think the point is that people should expose their opinions as though they were giving feedback to the band face-to-face, in which case most people would probably be cool about it, and not say ridiculous things like, "DT SUCKS THIS BAND IS EMBARRASSING ROAR!"

There are positive comments as well, but it usually goes like this:

*In response to Rudess saying that the next album is gonna be different*
Person 1: I'm glad... because The Astonishing BLOWS. I really hope they get their shit together and write something heavy, dark with balls!! They are so lame now.
Person 2: Yeah, WTF were they thinking? DT died with Portnoy's departure
Person 3: Hey, I LOVED The Astonishing. Keep it up DT! Screw the haters.
Person 4: Last good album was Metropolis Pt. 2.

Same people that keep posting on MP's facebook page 6 years after his departure after he has stated several times that reading such comments is hurtful to some extent:
Pls come back...DT is not the same without you. OR
DT is so much better without you.

I mean, internet is a good place to be open about things but are people just that ungrateful and bitter about some things? It's music, for God's sake. It's something that exists to make our lives better, not to create a friggin' competition and hate. I don't like Beyoncé, but I don't go through life bitching about how much she sucks or how much pop music sucks or whatever. I respect and admire that her music touches the souls of so many people, and that should be enough... I mean, that's what music is about, isn't it? It's okay if you don't like a certain album or band, but you don't have to be so bitchy and vocal about it, while insulting the band's hard work (and the band themselves) on the process.

At moments, I feel that such comments fall easily under the 'HEY EVERYONE! LOOK AT ME! I HATE THIS ALBUM BECAUSE MY MUSIC TASTE IS SO REFINED AND SUPERIOR!', and sadly I think that many prog fans over the globe fall under that category.

Awesome post.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 26, 2016, 07:44:29 AM
while there are a lot of us who love the album, there are a lot who do not
That literally happens with every album they have put out since I&W.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 26, 2016, 08:53:29 AM
As a fan, as a client, you have the right to expose your opinions.
True, but a couple of observations:

1) The band is not doing you any favors when they release new music. If you don't like their most recent output, you're totally free to ignore it and state you don't like it in a respectful, constructive manner; which is very, very different to state you absolutely hate it, that you think it's pure shit and that the band should quit and fire James LaBrie because he can't sing anymore and that the band died when Mike Portnoy left (I'm purposely using hyperbole in my recent posts to help me illustrate my point and not because every criticism sounds like that). That's pure, unaltered education.

2) As TOX stated, the face-to-face thing is very important in my opinion. Writing whatever mindless hate and bashing comes to you behind a computer makes things easier because you can just rant about things and no one will care or see you, except those who take very seriously comments found on websites like youtube. I mean, one can meet James LaBrie at the subway or something and just be respectful even if you don't like what the man brings to the table. Is it so hard to be like that on the internet? I think it is. Speaking of the prog fans I mentioned on my post, the urge of letting the world know your music taste is so refined is big.

Awesome post.
:-*
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on May 26, 2016, 10:29:00 AM
Wow, how I love when someone completely nails it. Great points all around. :clap:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on May 26, 2016, 08:34:34 PM
I really hope the band sticks to their guns and continues performing the entire album throughout the rest of the tour. It would be weird if they needed to compromise now, it's not like their other albums never divided the fan base. It's up to the band's management to find locations that are willing to bring the band even though they're performing only the new stuff and figure out how to make enough money out of it.

It was evident that there wasn't as much interest for this type of show in the Eastern Europe, that's why no Eastern Europe cities got this show. But if they come to Budapest or Vienna going "alright, we fixed the set, we'll only play some of The Astonishing, plus stuff like Pull me under, The Spirit carries on and On the backs of angels", I'd be disappointed not to see the entire rock opera the way it was intended to be seen.

Even if they didnt continue playing TA, I don't think that is really a sign of compromise.  Typically when DT has done multiple legs for support of an album they shuffle the setlist between legs of the same regions.  Granted, if it was true that DT spent a lot on this tour and took a hit to no longer play TA, then I would say that is the band compromising, but there is no reason to believe that.   The only thing that would suck is for like your example, if they played in cities that didnt get TA on the next leg.  Still, that's part of touring and how it works out sometimes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on May 26, 2016, 09:45:26 PM
I don't think that anyone is saying you can't expose your opinions. I think the point is that people should expose their opinions as though they were giving feedback to the band face-to-face, in which case most people would probably be cool about it, and not say ridiculous things like, "DT SUCKS THIS BAND IS EMBARRASSING ROAR!"

There are positive comments as well, but it usually goes like this:

*In response to Rudess saying that the next album is gonna be different*
Person 1: I'm glad... because The Astonishing BLOWS. I really hope they get their shit together and write something heavy, dark with balls!! They are so lame now.
Person 2: Yeah, WTF were they thinking? DT died with Portnoy's departure
Person 3: Hey, I LOVED The Astonishing. Keep it up DT! Screw the haters.
Person 4: Last good album was Metropolis Pt. 2.

Same people that keep posting on MP's facebook page 6 years after his departure after he has stated several times that reading such comments is hurtful to some extent:
Pls come back...DT is not the same without you. OR
DT is so much better without you.

I mean, internet is a good place to be open about things but are people just that ungrateful and bitter about some things? It's music, for God's sake. It's something that exists to make our lives better, not to create a friggin' competition and hate. I don't like Beyoncé, but I don't go through life bitching about how much she sucks or how much pop music sucks or whatever. I respect and admire that her music touches the souls of so many people, and that should be enough... I mean, that's what music is about, isn't it? It's okay if you don't like a certain album or band, but you don't have to be so bitchy and vocal about it, while insulting the band's hard work (and the band themselves) on the process.

At moments, I feel that such comments fall easily under the 'HEY EVERYONE! LOOK AT ME! I HATE THIS ALBUM BECAUSE MY MUSIC TASTE IS SO REFINED AND SUPERIOR!', and sadly I think that many prog fans over the globe fall under that category.

Awesome post.

Well, people saying that DT sucks and that this band is embarrassing are not fans.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on May 26, 2016, 09:51:52 PM
As a fan, as a client, you have the right to expose your opinions.
True, but a couple of observations:

1) The band is not doing you any favors when they release new music. If you don't like their most recent output, you're totally free to ignore it and state you don't like it in a respectful, constructive manner; which is very, very different to state you absolutely hate it, that you think it's pure shit and that the band should quit and fire James LaBrie because he can't sing anymore and that the band died when Mike Portnoy left (I'm purposely using hyperbole in my recent posts to help me illustrate my point and not because every criticism sounds like that). That's pure, unaltered education.

2) As TOX stated, the face-to-face thing is very important in my opinion. Writing whatever mindless hate and bashing comes to you behind a computer makes things easier because you can just rant about things and no one will care or see you, except those who take very seriously comments found on websites like youtube. I mean, one can meet James LaBrie at the subway or something and just be respectful even if you don't like what the man brings to the table. Is it so hard to be like that on the internet? I think it is. Speaking of the prog fans I mentioned on my post, the urge of letting the world know your music taste is so refined is big.

Awesome post.
:-*

I agree with you. And comments like these can't come from fans. For exemple, if you want to fire JLB, that's not serious. You have to hate him I guess to say that and you cannot be a fan of a band if you don't like the singer.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on May 27, 2016, 08:55:49 AM
"The next album is going to be different."

(https://i.imgflip.com/9dcsb.jpg)

</sarcasm>
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lucien on May 29, 2016, 12:14:53 AM
Not sure what they could do next that wouldn't be a letdown for me relative to TA, to be honest  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on May 29, 2016, 02:35:48 AM
Not sure what they could do next that wouldn't be a letdown for me relative to TA, to be honest  :lol

TA is one of my top 3 DT albums....
Did not think they had it in them to do such a masterpiece this late in their career.
This would be very hard to top.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on May 29, 2016, 03:46:16 AM
Not sure what they could do next that wouldn't be a letdown for me relative to TA, to be honest  :lol

For me it would mean taking this approach of focusing on melodies and let the song theme direct the music and use it for regular songs.

Only in a concept album you would get a short, full 2 minutes song or one that starts very theatrical and ends in a metal jazz section, why can't this happen on a "normal" album? DT12 was a conscious attempt in doing more concise songs, now I would like the next album to have songs of a wide array of lenghts that can be as unique and peculiar in their structure as the ones on The Astonishing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on May 29, 2016, 12:34:16 PM
Not sure what they could do next that wouldn't be a letdown for me relative to TA, to be honest  :lol

For me it would mean taking this approach of focusing on melodies and let the song theme direct the music and use it for regular songs.

Only in a concept album you would get a short, full 2 minutes song or one that starts very theatrical and ends in a metal jazz section, why can't this happen on a "normal" album? DT12 was a conscious attempt in doing more concise songs, now I would like the next album to have songs of a wide array of lenghts that can be as unique and peculiar in their structure as the ones on The Astonishing.

Agreed 100%.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on May 31, 2016, 10:32:40 AM
I don't see them doing anything that would be a "let down," to be honest.  The last three albums have all been top notch.  I see no reason to doubt that the trend will continue.  Even if I end up not liking the next one as much as the last three, I am confident it will be quality.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on May 31, 2016, 09:58:53 PM
It is impossible for the next album to be a let down unless they go country style and even so.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gabeh1018 on June 01, 2016, 06:17:09 AM
Not sure what they could do next that wouldn't be a letdown for me relative to TA, to be honest  :lol

TA is one of my top 3 DT albums....
Did not think they had it in them to do such a masterpiece this late in their career.
This would be very hard to top.

much agreed
I think TA is a masterpiece
I find myself not wanting to listen to their back catalog
this is a first for me...
we'll see how it holds up over time
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on June 02, 2016, 10:44:45 AM
While listening to TA most of the time, Octavarium has been finding it's way to my CD player alot lately..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on June 02, 2016, 11:00:58 AM
Interesting.  Me too.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on June 02, 2016, 11:53:26 AM
It should never be a case of "topping" the previous album(s). They should just do what they want to do. And, based on their record, "what they want to do" usually ends up being pretty awesome music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lucasembarbosa on June 02, 2016, 10:27:20 PM
While listening to TA most of the time, Octavarium has been finding it's way to my CD player alot lately..

The music, yes. Absolutely. Been listening to it a lot lately. The album, not so much...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on June 03, 2016, 03:16:27 AM
Interesting.  Me too.

Same here... any explanation?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on June 03, 2016, 08:13:19 AM
Interesting.  Me too.

Same here... any explanation?

Not really.  It just felt underplayed.  I hadn't really listened to it at all in a long time, and I found myself wanting to listen to the title track, so I have been spinning the whole thing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: lucasembarbosa on June 03, 2016, 12:51:38 PM
Tuesday I was listening to the symphonic tribute Eren Basbug did with some young folks playing Octavarium. Brilliant, just made me eager to listen to the original song.

Maybe it happens because of the overly used orchestra elements on TA and it resembles something on 8V. Who knows?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: wolven74 on June 08, 2016, 12:07:13 PM
It is impossible for the next album to be a let down unless they go country style and even so.

Progressive country? :lol :puke:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on June 08, 2016, 12:32:40 PM
It is impossible for the next album to be a let down unless they go country style and even so.

Progressive country? :lol :puke:

Country is never good no matter what type it is.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on June 08, 2016, 12:54:38 PM
It is impossible for the next album to be a let down unless they go country style and even so.

Progressive country? :lol :puke:

Country is never good no matter what type it is.  :lol

Casualties of Cool exists though. That's pretty good. Not sure if it's actually country though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on June 08, 2016, 01:13:48 PM
Casualties of Cool exists though. That's pretty good. Not sure if it's actually country though.

Yeah except in my opinion it's pretty bad.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on June 08, 2016, 01:20:51 PM
One thing I realized is that the album works best when listened in full, or in two halves at best. I remember once that I listened it going back and to from work and with other pauses for other stuff in between, so I was stopping more than once, and I basically listened to Power Down and Astonishing to close it up only after dinner, and it wasn't satisfying as usual. Whenever I hear it in full, it's still goosebumps.

I remember reading once a quote from Neil Young saying something along the lines of "I couldn't perform Rocking in the Free World in a TV show, I have to get there after two hours of sweat on stage"... I guess it's the same with The Astonishing, to truly enjoy the gran finale of the album and the story I have to get there having spent 2 hours or so in the album's world.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on June 08, 2016, 03:11:48 PM
Casualties of Cool exists though. That's pretty good. Not sure if it's actually country though.

Yeah except in my opinion it's pretty bad.  :lol

Oh.

 :sadpanda:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on June 08, 2016, 08:48:27 PM
Casualties of Cool exists though. That's pretty good. Not sure if it's actually country though.

Yeah except in my opinion it's pretty bad.  :lol

Oh.

 :sadpanda:
I think Casualties of Cool is better than some of DTP's albums. I love it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on June 08, 2016, 09:36:18 PM


Casualties of Cool exists though. That's pretty good. Not sure if it's actually country though.

It's not. It has bits of a country vibe here and there, but still not nearly enough to be labeled as such.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on June 09, 2016, 05:06:17 AM


Casualties of Cool exists though. That's pretty good. Not sure if it's actually country though.

It's not. It has bits of a country vibe here and there, but still not nearly enough to be labeled as such.

That sounds right. The country bits it does have though, are very good IMO.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on June 09, 2016, 06:12:50 AM
Fortunately, those bits sound like old school country, not the modern day, bubble gum, pop country horse shit.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jimbosile on June 10, 2016, 05:04:50 AM
I've been a bit late to listening to this album. Took me a while to get around to fully listening to it but the last few days I've been playing it non stop and honestly, I think it's phenomenal. It blows me away every time I listen and contrary to a lot of opinions on here, disc two actually has some of my favourite moments on the album. The climaxes in Losing Faythe and in Hymn of a Thousand Voices are really special.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on June 10, 2016, 05:31:30 AM
Deleted
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on June 10, 2016, 05:44:07 AM
Looks like Daryus gave him the gift  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on June 10, 2016, 06:11:44 AM
I deleted my post, because upon reading the video description again I found out the following:

Octavarium a Dream Theater Tribute Band of RNRU performed at Duffy's Ale House on June 4th, 2016

I googled RNRU and found several definitions, among them Regional Neurological Rehabilitation Unit. So I am not sure whether the cover is related to anything like this, however, I preferred to be on the safe side.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on June 10, 2016, 01:10:37 PM
Is it my imagination or they announced some months ago that they were gonna release a game? I feel like it's been ages.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on June 10, 2016, 08:41:37 PM
Is it my imagination or they announced some months ago that they were gonna release a game? I feel like it's been ages.  :lol
Well, on one press release it was stated the game would be released on late April. But, on anothe one (I think on the company's Facebook profile), the release date is "Q2 2016", so it could still be released this month.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Moor on June 14, 2016, 12:15:13 AM
Awesome acoustic cover for A new Beginning!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQm0phHvUd4
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on June 14, 2016, 09:12:47 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dml7W37AWlY

Hymn of a Thousand Voices with Tour Visuals.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: don_waka on June 14, 2016, 09:30:16 AM
Wow! This a great thread.
Haven't really paid closer attention to TA after listening to it two or three times when it was released.
Definitely superior than the last DT-with-Portnoy albums, but somehow haven't been able to be seduced by it.
Same thing happened to me back in the day when I listened to SFAM for the first 2 or 3 times; it was only after the 4th time that I started to like it. Hope the same thing happens to me with TA.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on June 14, 2016, 09:43:56 AM
It is impossible for the next album to be a let down unless they go country style and even so.

Progressive country? :lol :puke:

Dream Theater Outhouse.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 14, 2016, 09:52:05 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dml7W37AWlY

Hymn of a Thousand Voices with Tour Visuals.

Cool!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on June 14, 2016, 09:57:40 AM
Yeah, that was great! Can't wait to see 'em live.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on June 14, 2016, 10:50:52 AM
I always figured if they released a DVD of this tour that a bonus feature would be just the visuals from the songs.  Pretty cool to see this released.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on June 16, 2016, 09:46:24 AM
I always figured if they released a DVD of this tour that a bonus feature would be just the visuals from the songs.  Pretty cool to see this released.

since I never got to see the tour, will be sooooo disappointed if they don't release it on dvd.  do we know if this is coming?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on June 16, 2016, 09:49:23 AM
I always figured if they released a DVD of this tour that a bonus feature would be just the visuals from the songs.  Pretty cool to see this released.

since I never got to see the tour, will be sooooo disappointed if they don't release it on dvd.  do we know if this is coming?
Nothing official from the band.  But JP told me in early May that they really wanted to.  So the desire is definitely there.  It's just a matter of making it happen.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on June 16, 2016, 11:03:19 AM
well...doesn't this involve some planning?  don't they have to decide to do this in advance so they have all the necessary equipment there to film it? 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on June 16, 2016, 11:27:28 AM
On the new JP-2C plus videos - there's a camera attached to JP's mic stand.

Could be for on screen visuals or it could be for a DVD.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on June 16, 2016, 12:31:38 PM
well...doesn't this involve some planning?  don't they have to decide to do this in advance so they have all the necessary equipment there to film it?

My completely personal assumption is that they use the first round of concerts in Europe, USA and elsehwere to get a feel of the venues and theaters, and in the second legs that will follow, they will record the DVD in the venue that either sonically or aestetically pleases them most.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on June 16, 2016, 12:57:34 PM
Interesting.  That could potentially bode well for getting to see a (somewhat) local show on DVD then, since band, crew, and management were gaga over the Fox Theater in Oakland.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on June 16, 2016, 01:17:22 PM
well...doesn't this involve some planning?  don't they have to decide to do this in advance so they have all the necessary equipment there to film it?

My completely personal assumption is that they use the first round of concerts in Europe, USA and elsehwere to get a feel of the venues and theaters, and in the second legs that will follow, they will record the DVD in the venue that either sonically or aestetically pleases them most.

They could also be looking at places that are good to allow for an orchestra/choir too.  That's just wishful thinking on my part, but who knows. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on June 16, 2016, 03:58:46 PM
well...doesn't this involve some planning?  don't they have to decide to do this in advance so they have all the necessary equipment there to film it?

My completely personal assumption is that they use the first round of concerts in Europe, USA and elsehwere to get a feel of the venues and theaters, and in the second legs that will follow, they will record the DVD in the venue that either sonically or aestetically pleases them most.

They could also be looking at places that are good to allow for an orchestra/choir too.  That's just wishful thinking on my part, but who knows.

I'm really done with alive DVD with an orchestra. I feel like if a band wants to do it once, fine. I thought it was unnecessary. 
The thing is, this should be the time they should use one. But it would now be the third time they film with an orchestra, and THB, I have no interest in it. I'd be happy just to hear how the band pulled it off by themselves each night.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on June 16, 2016, 04:06:17 PM
Neither Score nor the BTFW orchestras added anything substantial anyway imo. If anything on Score they made some of the parts worse.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on June 16, 2016, 04:23:26 PM
well...doesn't this involve some planning?  don't they have to decide to do this in advance so they have all the necessary equipment there to film it?

My completely personal assumption is that they use the first round of concerts in Europe, USA and elsehwere to get a feel of the venues and theaters, and in the second legs that will follow, they will record the DVD in the venue that either sonically or aestetically pleases them most.

They could also be looking at places that are good to allow for an orchestra/choir too.  That's just wishful thinking on my part, but who knows.

I'm really done with alive DVD with an orchestra. I feel like if a band wants to do it once, fine. I thought it was unnecessary. 
The thing is, this should be the time they should use one. But it would now be the third time they film with an orchestra, and THB, I have no interest in it. I'd be happy just to hear how the band pulled it off by themselves each night.
I hear you, but since it would be warranted this time around, I wouldn't mind.  To me, it more depends on the music.  If the music calls for it, I'm fine with them doing it again.  Epica and Within Temptation have done it for more than one live release as well, but their music calls for it, so it's cool.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on June 16, 2016, 04:26:25 PM
Well, if they had a Ytsejam style release of another show without an orchestra to contrast, fine. I love the Santiago '05 DVD!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on June 16, 2016, 04:28:30 PM
Is that the one where James goes, "You know why we love to play Santiago?  You know WHY?  Because you people really know how to partaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on June 16, 2016, 05:43:53 PM
Is that the one where James goes, "You know why we love to play Santiago?  You know WHY?  Because you people really know how to partaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!"

 :lol probably (although I can't recall since it's been awhile since I watched that DVD) but that crowd is easily the most crazy on any DT release that I have seen.

As for a recording with an orchestra, this totally calls for it, but I think I'd also be fine without it.  It really might add to the show though if it was done right.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 17, 2016, 08:59:19 AM
With orchestra/choir, without orchestra/choir, whatever.

Just shoot it like the video for Our New World.  That was awesome.  Give me 34 songs worth of THAT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on June 17, 2016, 09:06:56 AM
With orchestra/choir, without orchestra/choir, whatever.

Just shoot it like the video for Our New World.  That was awesome.  Give me 34 songs worth of THAT.
This is the dream. Awesome shots/quality/overall vibe.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BanksD on June 19, 2016, 08:36:43 AM
Way late to the game but , I've finally been getting around to this album

DT12 was great at the time. But after a few months it kinda got stale, and I kinda lost interest in DT. When all this Astonishing stuff got announced I was kinda like "...really" and didnt really feel interested in listening.

However in the last week Ive been starting to get interested in DT again so I decided to check out this album and I'm very impressed! Even if the album is a little bloated and overlong imo, it's great to see that Dream Theater is still ambitious and interested in doing new things this many albums into their career. Theres about 10 or 15 songs here that are just amazing and will probably go down as some of my favorite DT songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on June 21, 2016, 02:49:24 AM
The last two days, I have been listening to the album in a very silent environment with my in-ears. With no noise, JM is very audible and his playing in this album is amazing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on June 21, 2016, 04:02:32 AM
Listened to Disc 1 on my headphones whilst playing Borderlands 2.

Tonight will be Disc 2.

:)

Still liking the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Woodworker1 on June 22, 2016, 01:50:59 PM
This album is wearing well for me; definitely in my top five.  Yes, DT probably won't make as much money as they normally do off this album, and I'm sure they knew that from the beginning of their effort.  I respect them all the more for releasing an album like this.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on June 28, 2016, 07:30:44 PM
My single favorite moment of the entire album(s) is during Savior In The Square where Gabriel sings:

"Brother, worry not today.
I will share my music,
and they will soon be on their way."


Goosebumps. Every. Single. Time.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on June 28, 2016, 07:35:49 PM
Yeah, I love that part too (as well as the next lines that follow before the transition).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on June 28, 2016, 07:49:58 PM
Yeah, I love that part too (as well as the next lines that follow before the transition).

The vocal melodies are some of the best in their catalog. Hard to call a 2 hour+ album a total tease, but I really need a song that repeats that part at least 2 or 3 times! :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on June 28, 2016, 08:10:49 PM
For me, the album's major tease in terms of an ever-so-brief epic moment that screams out to be repeated and never is, is the riff in Ravenskill at 2:22.  (and I am guessing that you don't even need to look it up the timestamp)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on June 28, 2016, 08:23:31 PM
To me, it is the most theatrical riff on the album and I too was disappointed it never comes back. It's so epic. I also wish 3:04 was repeated again because it is so emotional with the choir over that held guitar note. Ravenskill is full of teases
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Shooters1221 on June 29, 2016, 04:13:35 AM
To me, it's the 12 string guitar opening of HC...I wanted to hear more of that for sure!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on June 29, 2016, 05:15:07 AM
My single favorite moment of the entire album(s) is during Savior In The Square where Gabriel sings:

"Brother, worry not today.
I will share my music,
and they will soon be on their way."


Goosebumps. Every. Single. Time.

Love it..

For me, the album's major tease in terms of an ever-so-brief epic moment that screams out to be repeated and never is, is the riff in Ravenskill at 2:22.  (and I am guessing that you don't even need to look it up the timestamp)

Love it..  :lol

A goosebumps moment for me is in Begin Again, around 2:20:

"I know that I am meant for something more,
That life beyond these walls
Has greater things in store.."

There's something very cool about that little section.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on June 29, 2016, 05:28:32 AM
Yes! That section in Begin Again is excellent. Very emotional part for the character and a sign of hope.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on June 29, 2016, 07:07:09 PM
After taking a two months break to listen to some other GREAT albums released this year, plus a couple of discog dives, I've spun The Astonishing last night and again tonight.

This album is an amazing journey. And again, bravo James!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Tomislav95 on June 30, 2016, 12:49:00 AM
5 months since album was released I just now realized how good Losing Faythe is :lol
Especially last part starting with: "Gabriel, my son..."
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on June 30, 2016, 06:44:02 AM
I think that "Chosen" should definitely be played again on future tours. A really fun song on the album, but perfect for a live setting.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 30, 2016, 06:51:34 AM
I think that "Chosen" should definitely be played again on future tours. A really fun song on the album, but perfect for a live setting.

Agreed, that song came across really well live, one of the highlights of the show.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on June 30, 2016, 06:55:59 AM
I bet Chosen was nice live, but it's one of the songs I usually skip. It will be interesting to see how this album will be represented on future tours. Will two smaller pieces be paired like War/Test? There are plenty of standalone songs, Gift Of Music, Ravenskill, Chosen, Our New World..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 30, 2016, 07:01:08 AM
I bet Chosen was nice live, but it's one of the songs I usually skip. It will be interesting to see how this album will be represented on future tours. Will two smaller pieces be paired like War/Test? There are plenty of standalone songs, Gift Of Music, Ravenskill, Chosen, Our New World..

Honestly, before I saw the song live, it hadn't really clicked, I skipped it a lot as well. But it was just one of those songs that translated really well live and now I find myself skipping it less, for sure.

Also, I could definitely see them doing ASITS/WYTHC together in the future.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 30, 2016, 07:32:35 AM
I think that "Chosen" should definitely be played again on future tours. A really fun song on the album, but perfect for a live setting.
That is a fantastic song.

Also, The Path That Divides.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 30, 2016, 07:34:20 AM
I'd say the obvious choices to play in the future would be The Gift of Music, Moment of Betrayal, and Our New World. Although, I could easily see several others the band really enjoys playing sneaking into future set lists.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on June 30, 2016, 09:00:16 AM
After taking a two months break to listen to some other GREAT albums released this year, plus a couple of discog dives, I've spun The Astonishing last night and again tonight.

This album is an amazing journey. And again, bravo James!
Interesting.  I am in almost exactly the same spot, except that my break from the album wasn't quite two months.  But otherwise, yeah, exactly that.  I can't say I am tired of the album at all, but there has just been other new stuff to check out that I was listening to a lot more.  And then I recently came back to this one and feel the same way you do about it.

I think that "Chosen" should definitely be played again on future tours. A really fun song on the album, but perfect for a live setting.
Yeah, it's a great song.  The problem I think they often run into with their "ballads" is that there is only so much room in a set to slow things down and play ballady-type songs, so it is not easy to work in many of the older ones unless the band or fanbase feels that there is truly something "special" about them.  I fear that Chosen may likely fall by the wayside in the future because of that. 

It will be interesting to see how this album will be represented on future tours. Will two smaller pieces be paired like War/Test? There are plenty of standalone songs, Gift Of Music, Ravenskill, Chosen, Our New World..

I think that if they do more of a "traditional" set later in the tour that features a healthy dose of this album with some other DT songs mixed in, it is likely they will choose a collection of songs that is similar to what was on the advance press sampler.  I've posted that track listing, but just so you guys don't have to search for it, I think it was:
-Descent of the NOMACS
-Dytopian Overture
-The Gift of Music
-Lord Nafaryus
-A Savior In the Square/When Your Time Has Come
-Chosen
-Moment of Betrayal
-The Path That Divides
-Our New World

I could easily see them doing those songs as part of their set later on this tour, either with groups of songs sprinkled throughout the set or all together as a "suite."  I might also bet that The Astonishing would likely be added and done at the end of the set as a closer (and maybe they take out The Path That Divides if they need space). 

As far as future tours, who knows?  This band is so hard to predict in terms of what they play because, historically, if you look at their set lists over time, they play pretty much EVERYTHING.  There isn't really a pattern of them choosing certain favorites over and over and ignoring deep cuts (other than limiting ballad time).  Our New World seems very likely to make repeat appearances.  But I think a LOT of the album could easily show up over the years, especially since the songs are so (relatively) short and, therefore, easy to work into a set list.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on June 30, 2016, 09:14:27 AM
I think I had suggested a while back that the Sampler could likely be second set of a show.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on June 30, 2016, 09:20:46 AM
Yes, you most definitely did.  And I agree--IF they are still doing an "evening with" format where they have a second set.  But even if they do a more "standard" type of show where they have an opener and do about a two hour set, it could easily work either as a "suite" or with groups of those songs sprinkled throughout, don't you think?

And while I could be dead wrong, I think that after doing "evening with" shows on the last tour, and this run of VERY difficult "evening with" shows playing The Astonishing (especially difficult for James), it seems likely to me that they would retire that format for a second leg and do the "standard" one set type of show.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BanksD on June 30, 2016, 10:07:38 AM
Yes, you most definitely did.  And I agree--IF they are still doing an "evening with" format where they have a second set.  But even if they do a more "standard" type of show where they have an opener and do about a two hour set, it could easily work either as a "suite" or with groups of those songs sprinkled throughout, don't you think?

And while I could be dead wrong, I think that after doing "evening with" shows on the last tour, and this run of VERY difficult "evening with" shows playing The Astonishing (especially difficult for James), it seems likely to me that they would retire that format for a second leg and do the "standard" one set type of show.

As much as I'd love to see an Evening With show, I'm pulling for them to not do that, so they would be more likely to come near where I live  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lax on July 01, 2016, 06:17:01 AM
After a 2-3 weeks break, I'm back at listening to this album, and it stays on its pedestal for me, it's a masterpiece :)
BTW I always have to lower the car's volume mid-second disk, I don't know why there is a sound bump from around the walking shadow to the end.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 01, 2016, 08:30:08 AM
Hey, if you haven't yet voted in the Astonishing League finale, you still have a little time!

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=47708.0
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: avishwanath28 on July 05, 2016, 01:55:55 PM
First post! I've been relistening to this album recently, picked up on a lot of lyrical things I hadn't heard before. I had never actually gone through the lyrics while listening to figure out who exactly is saying what, and I definitely missed some plot parts before (like the whole "bug" thing). For me at this point, this may be my second favorite album after I&W.

I did have two lyrics/plot questions that may have been asked earlier in this thread, so apologies if this is redundant:

1. On the track listing for The Path That Divides, it says that X followed Arhys to Heaven's Cove and was hiding behind a tree as he met Daryus. And in the description for The Walking Shadow, it says "X comes running out of the dark, crying and clinging to his father’s lifeless body, startling Daryus who was unaware that he was present." But wasn't X supposed to be Daryus' prisoner? Did he escape from Daryus? Or did Daryus let him go? But if he let him go, then how was he going to exchange X for Gabriel?

2. When Gabriel screams, he covers X's ears, and Faythe has her earbuds in (I'll suspend belief on this one). But his own ears aren't protected - shouldn't he become deaf like Daryus?

The second one is a bit of a technicality, but I'm more curious about the first one. Thanks!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on July 05, 2016, 02:16:16 PM
for 1, I think Daryus just kidnapped X in his own house as a way to get Arhys to listen to his "tempting offer" and show his seriousness.  I believe he let X go after their discussion for Arhys to make his decision.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on July 05, 2016, 02:16:26 PM

2. When Gabriel screams, he covers X's ears, and Faythe has her earbuds in (I'll suspend belief on this one). But his own ears aren't protected - shouldn't he become deaf like Daryus?



Alternate timeline !!!!111
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on July 05, 2016, 02:24:41 PM
1. On the track listing for The Path That Divides, it says that X followed Arhys to Heaven's Cove and was hiding behind a tree as he met Daryus. And in the description for The Walking Shadow, it says "X comes running out of the dark, crying and clinging to his father’s lifeless body, startling Daryus who was unaware that he was present." But wasn't X supposed to be Daryus' prisoner? Did he escape from Daryus? Or did Daryus let him go? But if he let him go, then how was he going to exchange X for Gabriel?

Yeah, I agree with what was said above.  Daryus didn't really kidnap him.  He just detained X in his house to get Arhys' attention to present his offer.  After that, he didn't need X anymore.  The offer was simply, "Give me Gabriel, and I will reward you by making sure X is taken care of," with the addition of the implied, "and as my father said [in Three Days], we will spare your entire village from being destroyed," which would have presumably killed X anyway.  Yeah, keeping X would have been extra "insurance."  But that isn't what Daryus did. 

2. When Gabriel screams, he covers X's ears, and Faythe has her earbuds in (I'll suspend belief on this one). But his own ears aren't protected - shouldn't he become deaf like Daryus?

Yeah, no idea.  I think we're just supposed to presume that magical screams do not harm the caster.  :dunno:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: avishwanath28 on July 05, 2016, 02:36:44 PM
So if he didn't have X, then why did Arhys decide as he did? He basically gave up the entire revolution so X could have a good life in the capital? The choice doesn't seem very stark in that light - unless Arhys really thought he was going to lose the battle, in which case he presumably would have thought that before Daryus visited (I don't see any part of the visit that would have changed that). I thought the whole "I promised Evangeline I would take of our our son" bit was about saving his life, not about making sure he succeeded in the capital. Maybe this is too in the weeds though of a fairly simple plot.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on July 05, 2016, 02:42:14 PM
I'm going to the show here at Mexico City on Friday.

I'm excited.

YOU DARE DEFY THE PRINCE?!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on July 05, 2016, 02:43:24 PM
I think the point is supposed to be that Nafaryus' threat in three days was more general and threatened the entire village, and basically dared them to fight.  Daryus' offer made it more personal, made him realize that the threat applied directly to X as well, and gave him a benefit he previously would not have considered.  But it is perhaps more than that as well.  I mean, I think we are supposed to believe that Ravenskill was outmatched and was likely to lose the battle.  But even if they were to win, I think we are supposed to deduce that the fight itself would have taken years, with many people dying on both sides, and the rebels suffering the worst during the time the fighting was going on.  X would still lead a life of comparative misery and might never live to see any sort of reprieve from fighting during his lifetime, assuming he wasn't killed in the fighting anyway.  By accepting the offer, he would not be exposed to any of that, which is why it is..."a tempting offer." 

And I should also point out that Arhys didn't decide to give up the revolution.  He was tempted, and was leaning that way.  But as far as I understand the story, he hadn't actually decided.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on July 05, 2016, 02:44:28 PM
I'm perfectly fine with Faythe having the earplugs, she was listening to her muuuusic playeeeeer the whole time, it makes perfectly sense for her to wear them.

What I don't grasp is how Gabriel, in the midst of his desperation of seeing his brother killed and his love dying, had the instict to cover Xander's ears and most of all, how did he know his scream was deafening? did he practice on his own when he was alone and noticed he sent some birds deaf so he knew what was happening?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on July 05, 2016, 02:46:06 PM
A random thought:

I feel underwhelmed on how little the geography on this fictional world is used. I mean, they did a whole friggin' map and the story basically takes place at: Palace, Ravenskill and Heaven's Cove.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on July 05, 2016, 02:51:07 PM
And I should also point out that Arhys didn't decide to give up the revolution.  He was tempted, and was leaning that way.  But as far as I understand the story, he hadn't actually decided.

I thought in Moment of Betrayal was when Arhys actually decided to take Daryus' offer and hence why Daryus knew to go to Heaven's Cove where Gabriel would be alone, but Arhys then reverts on his decision shortly after.

A random thought:

I feel underwhelmed on how little the geography on this fictional world is used. I mean, they did a whole friggin' map and the story basically takes place at: Palace, Ravenskill and Heaven's Cove.

This is true.  Could leave things open for more stories in this universe though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on July 05, 2016, 02:57:22 PM
And I should also point out that Arhys didn't decide to give up the revolution.  He was tempted, and was leaning that way.  But as far as I understand the story, he hadn't actually decided.

I thought in Moment of Betrayal was when Arhys actually decided to take Daryus' offer and hence why Daryus knew to go to Heaven's Cove where Gabriel would be alone, but Arhys then reverts on his decision shortly after.

Did he actually decide though, or is he just playing it out in his own mind?  I always took it as the latter, with the thought that the first time we hear the story, we are meant to think he actually did it rather than simply getting there in his mind, but not going through with it.  But I could be mistaken.  Either way though, I don't think it changes the overall point.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on July 05, 2016, 03:20:54 PM
He was ready to give Gabriel away for the promise of a better life for X; the decision is made "in" The X Aspect and is communicated to Daryus in Moment Of Betrayal. Only in the meeting point, Heaven's Cove, as sung in The Path That Divides, Arhys regrets his decision and decides to confront Daryus instead of turning his brother in.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: avishwanath28 on July 05, 2016, 03:47:15 PM
And I should also point out that Arhys didn't decide to give up the revolution.  He was tempted, and was leaning that way.  But as far as I understand the story, he hadn't actually decided.

I thought in Moment of Betrayal was when Arhys actually decided to take Daryus' offer and hence why Daryus knew to go to Heaven's Cove where Gabriel would be alone, but Arhys then reverts on his decision shortly after.

Did he actually decide though, or is he just playing it out in his own mind?  I always took it as the latter, with the thought that the first time we hear the story, we are meant to think he actually did it rather than simply getting there in his mind, but not going through with it.  But I could be mistaken.  Either way though, I don't think it changes the overall point.

I think he agreed, because he told Daryus to come to Heaven's Cove and that Gabriel would be there - otherwise, how would Daryus know to do that? Also, on the website it said that he accepted the offer. My read of it was that he accepted it but then had a change of heart when he was at Heaven's Cove with Daryus in The Path That Divides.

And I should also point out that Arhys didn't decide to give up the revolution.  He was tempted, and was leaning that way.  But as far as I understand the story, he hadn't actually decided.

I thought in Moment of Betrayal was when Arhys actually decided to take Daryus' offer and hence why Daryus knew to go to Heaven's Cove where Gabriel would be alone, but Arhys then reverts on his decision shortly after.

A random thought:

I feel underwhelmed on how little the geography on this fictional world is used. I mean, they did a whole friggin' map and the story basically takes place at: Palace, Ravenskill and Heaven's Cove.

This is true.  Could leave things open for more stories in this universe though.

It would be pretty cool if they did another song/songs in this universe. Doesn't have to be a whole rock opera again, but maybe a 23 min song to close off an album which is a sequel. I can totally imagine a Star Wars-esque scenario set in the future where Gabriel and Faythe ruled well but then X has an Anakin Skywalker type moment and becomes the next Nafaryus.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on July 05, 2016, 05:06:43 PM
It would be pretty cool if they did another song/songs in this universe. Doesn't have to be a whole rock opera again, but maybe a 23 min song to close off an album which is a sequel. I can totally imagine a Star Wars-esque scenario set in the future where Gabriel and Faythe ruled well but then X has an Anakin Skywalker type moment and becomes the next Nafaryus.

Personally even loving TA, I'd rather see the band move on.  BUT, your idea did spark a similar thought, what about a Change of Seasons like EP.  Maybe 5 tracks in similar TA style (shorter tracks with some recurring themes throughout the songs) in the TA universe and then some live tracks or something?  Essentially the band not really putting so much focus on it, but still releasing music relating to it.  Just a thought.  LIke I said, overall I'd rather them just move on to the next adventure.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on July 05, 2016, 05:32:52 PM
About GNEA's geography: when the videogame was announced, I assumed it would be an RPG which gave you the chance to travel through all the different parts of the Empire. However, the recent update's screenshot shows the game as some sort of chess with musical instruments, so I don't know.

In the Q&A I attended in Buenos Aires last week, JP confirmed that the novel is well underway. Maybe the whole Empire will be explored in the book eventually.

What I don't grasp is how Gabriel, in the midst of his desperation of seeing his brother killed and his love dying, had the instict to cover Xander's ears and most of all, how did he know his scream was deafening? did he practice on his own when he was alone and noticed he sent some birds deaf so he knew what was happening?
You have to remember that, once the choir joins him during "Hymn Of 1000 Voices", Gabriel somehow finds his voice works again, and it brings Faythe back to life as well. I don't think John intended for every part of the story to be analyzed so rationally. Maybe he did have a superpower :P

Serious question, though: is there any 'world record' or register of the loudest human scream and any effects? I find it interesting (as well as annoying :angry:) when babies cry during a bus trip, because they can be really loud. Is there any chance someone could go partially deaf by being next to a loud screamer?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 06, 2016, 08:13:21 AM
I would just like to say that after months of listening, Disc 2 is better than Disc 1.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on July 06, 2016, 08:43:15 AM
I would just like to say that after months of listening, Disc 2 is better than Disc 1.

I can get behind that. Like I've mentioned before, the emotions throughout the second half of disc 2 are  the most important parts of the whole album. It's those songs that bring out the true meaning behind the album. It's not about just saving music. It's about love, loss, absolution, and regret.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on July 06, 2016, 08:58:28 AM
I can definitely say disc 2 is better than I first gave credit for, but disc 1 is just too much awesome music to be taken over by a much shorter disc 2.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on July 06, 2016, 09:01:42 AM
I can definitely say disc 2 is better than I first gave credit for, but disc 1 is just too much awesome music to be taken over by a much shorter disc 2.

I'd agree with this. Disc 2 has greatly improved over time for me, it proved to be much more of a slow grower than Disc 1. But, I still prefer Disc 1 over Disc 2.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on July 06, 2016, 09:08:59 AM
I would just like to say that after months of listening, Disc 2 is better than Disc 1.

I'm not sure if I agree, but the first five songs of Disc 2 are my favorite run of songs on the whole album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 06, 2016, 09:46:33 AM
The Astonishing itself could be known as the "end" of the NOMAC conflict, but we know little of what happened before that, I don't think Ahrys would have wanted to spare Nafaryus, as he was more than willing to take down Daryus right there.
I also like to think Nafaryus was mostly ignorant (like his children) of what happened outside the main city's walls, hence why he actually has a change in his mind, and most of the conflicts were caused by the empire's military forces acting independently.

I think this world is too elaborate to be dropped there, would like to have a heavier more prog prequel focusing on the actual conflict set right before TA, where Gabriel's influence on people is just being revealed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on July 06, 2016, 09:54:45 AM
would like to have a heavier more prog prequel focusing on the actual conflict set right before TA, where Gabriel's influence on people is just being revealed.

I wouldn't.  I mean, it's cool to speculate about all the unanswered questions and unexplored territory.  But it's a fairly simple, straightforward story.  And, more importantly, it's a story told through a rock opera.  We don't need all questions answered or more territory explored to enjoy it for what it is.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on July 06, 2016, 10:01:37 AM
Exactly!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 06, 2016, 10:07:27 AM
would like to have a heavier more prog prequel focusing on the actual conflict set right before TA, where Gabriel's influence on people is just being revealed.

I wouldn't.  I mean, it's cool to speculate about all the unanswered questions and unexplored territory.  But it's a fairly simple, straightforward story.  And, more importantly, it's a story told through a rock opera.  We don't need all questions answered or more territory explored to enjoy it for what it is.
I agree.  No prequels or sequels necessary.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 06, 2016, 10:11:11 AM
Just saying because they made a large fuzz about the conflict between the two factions and that is barely even touched in the actual album at all.
And it wouldn't change my perspective of the album at all or make me enjoy it more or less than I already do, the EP idea seems perfect for this, I mean why not? I'm sure JP has thought about it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on July 06, 2016, 10:12:07 AM
They should've stopped Star Wars after the original. Why mess with perfection?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 06, 2016, 10:15:04 AM
They should've stopped Star Wars after the original. Why mess with perfection?
We're not talking about a whole album here again, exploiting it would be making more albums here, which isn't necessary, but I don't see why would an EP with maybe an epic be out of place. We don't call the shots, but I bet on something like that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on July 06, 2016, 10:20:34 AM
would like to have a heavier more prog prequel focusing on the actual conflict set right before TA, where Gabriel's influence on people is just being revealed.

I wouldn't.  I mean, it's cool to speculate about all the unanswered questions and unexplored territory.  But it's a fairly simple, straightforward story.  And, more importantly, it's a story told through a rock opera.  We don't need all questions answered or more territory explored to enjoy it for what it is.
I agree.  No prequels or sequels necessary.

Agreed. What would even be the point of extending the story? If anything, didn't JP say he might turn it into a novel?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 06, 2016, 10:25:55 AM
Oh well never mind.
Either way, next album will be very different, maybe a less serious work? I'd love to see a new DT song made for total fun, just messing around, like Enigma Machine.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BanksD on July 06, 2016, 11:19:30 AM
Next album is gonna mess people up, I've got a good feeling.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on July 06, 2016, 11:23:09 AM
Next album is gonna mess people up, I've got a good feeling.

Every album of theirs messes people up!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 06, 2016, 11:49:57 AM
I'm gonna get messed up tonight just thinking about it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: avishwanath28 on July 08, 2016, 10:35:18 AM
would like to have a heavier more prog prequel focusing on the actual conflict set right before TA, where Gabriel's influence on people is just being revealed.

I wouldn't.  I mean, it's cool to speculate about all the unanswered questions and unexplored territory.  But it's a fairly simple, straightforward story.  And, more importantly, it's a story told through a rock opera.  We don't need all questions answered or more territory explored to enjoy it for what it is.
I agree.  No prequels or sequels necessary.

Agreed. What would even be the point of extending the story? If anything, didn't JP say he might turn it into a novel?

Honestly, a novel would be pretty bad if it were following the storyline of the album. I like the plot of the story insofar as it connects to the music, but if you remove the music, it has to be one of the more cheesy and lame stories of modern times. If anything, I'd want SFAM to be turned into a novel (not that I do, to be clear).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on July 08, 2016, 10:58:55 AM
would like to have a heavier more prog prequel focusing on the actual conflict set right before TA, where Gabriel's influence on people is just being revealed.

I wouldn't.  I mean, it's cool to speculate about all the unanswered questions and unexplored territory.  But it's a fairly simple, straightforward story.  And, more importantly, it's a story told through a rock opera.  We don't need all questions answered or more territory explored to enjoy it for what it is.
I agree.  No prequels or sequels necessary.

Agreed. What would even be the point of extending the story? If anything, didn't JP say he might turn it into a novel?

Honestly, a novel would be pretty bad if it were following the storyline of the album. I like the plot of the story insofar as it connects to the music, but if you remove the music, it has to be one of the more cheesy and lame stories of modern times. If anything, I'd want SFAM to be turned into a novel (not that I do, to be clear).

I see where you are coming from.  But I wouldn't say "if you remove the music, it has to be one of the more cheesy and lame stories of modern times."  Not that there isn't some truth to that, but I think that misses the point.  You could say the same thing about a lot of grade-A musicals.  The point is, the story is meant to be portrayed in a particular format or medium, and it works well within that medium (a prog metal rock opera).  The story-telling medium is an important and integral part of the context in which the story is told.  Taking the story out of that medium is to remove a lot of context. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on July 08, 2016, 11:40:30 AM
would like to have a heavier more prog prequel focusing on the actual conflict set right before TA, where Gabriel's influence on people is just being revealed.

I wouldn't.  I mean, it's cool to speculate about all the unanswered questions and unexplored territory.  But it's a fairly simple, straightforward story.  And, more importantly, it's a story told through a rock opera.  We don't need all questions answered or more territory explored to enjoy it for what it is.
I agree.  No prequels or sequels necessary.

Agreed. What would even be the point of extending the story? If anything, didn't JP say he might turn it into a novel?

Honestly, a novel would be pretty bad if it were following the storyline of the album. I like the plot of the story insofar as it connects to the music, but if you remove the music, it has to be one of the more cheesy and lame stories of modern times. If anything, I'd want SFAM to be turned into a novel (not that I do, to be clear).

I don't agree. While it's not the greatest plot, I can name many books where the plot was terrible and unoriginal, so I don''t see JP's story being any worse than those. However, the main point I'm trying to get at here is that the whole story isn't just about saving music. There's a lot going on throughout the story. It's about love, loss, hope, redemption, and so on. I see it as a touching story where, in the end, it's more than just music that was saved; it was people's freedom.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on July 08, 2016, 11:46:03 AM
would like to have a heavier more prog prequel focusing on the actual conflict set right before TA, where Gabriel's influence on people is just being revealed.

I wouldn't.  I mean, it's cool to speculate about all the unanswered questions and unexplored territory.  But it's a fairly simple, straightforward story.  And, more importantly, it's a story told through a rock opera.  We don't need all questions answered or more territory explored to enjoy it for what it is.
I agree.  No prequels or sequels necessary.

Agreed. What would even be the point of extending the story? If anything, didn't JP say he might turn it into a novel?

Honestly, a novel would be pretty bad if it were following the storyline of the album. I like the plot of the story insofar as it connects to the music, but if you remove the music, it has to be one of the more cheesy and lame stories of modern times. If anything, I'd want SFAM to be turned into a novel (not that I do, to be clear).

I don't agree. While it's not the greatest plot, I can name many books where the plot was terrible and unoriginal, so I don''t see JP's story being any worse than those. However, the main point I'm trying to get at here is that the whole story isn't just about saving music. There's a lot going on throughout the story. It's about love, loss, hope, redemption, and so on. I see it as a touching story where, in the end, it's more than just music that was saved; it was people's freedom.

I would imagine if they took this exact story and made a novel, it wouldn't be the exact same.  There would be more intricacies and details that it's totally possibly to make the plot better and more interesting.  It's also possible for it to be worse.  But I'm not sure how one could so easily say a novel on this story would automatically be bad. 

The story itself is truly nothing new either.  It's got the same plot lines as many other stories/movies just spun into a futuristic feudal time without music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Randaran on July 08, 2016, 08:52:44 PM
would like to have a heavier more prog prequel focusing on the actual conflict set right before TA, where Gabriel's influence on people is just being revealed.

I wouldn't.  I mean, it's cool to speculate about all the unanswered questions and unexplored territory.  But it's a fairly simple, straightforward story.  And, more importantly, it's a story told through a rock opera.  We don't need all questions answered or more territory explored to enjoy it for what it is.
I agree.  No prequels or sequels necessary.

Agreed. What would even be the point of extending the story? If anything, didn't JP say he might turn it into a novel?

Honestly, a novel would be pretty bad if it were following the storyline of the album. I like the plot of the story insofar as it connects to the music, but if you remove the music, it has to be one of the more cheesy and lame stories of modern times. If anything, I'd want SFAM to be turned into a novel (not that I do, to be clear).

I disagree; the story of the Astonishing has more potential to work as a novel than that of SFaM. Unlike Scenes, The Astonishing has actual characters with personality traits, ambitions, flaws, and backstories. Some of them have to make difficult choices, and the story is progressed by the characters' agencies. Though still simple, and by no means a masterpiece, the characters and story can stand on their own when the music is removed, and there is a lot more to work with for a novel adaptation. This doesn't even include the elements of the setting, such as most of the map and the NOMACs, that were ignored in the album's narrative. In the absence of music, I cannot imagine Scene's story working on any level.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on July 08, 2016, 09:39:38 PM
I enjoyed the album, the story wasn't bad but it was a bit contrived and I have no interest in reading a novel about it (or even seeing a movie). It worked well as a theme for a concept album/musical but nothing more.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: NoseofNicko on July 10, 2016, 12:27:53 AM
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/dream_theater/the_astonishing/ (https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/dream_theater/the_astonishing/)

Most underrated album ever.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 10, 2016, 01:10:52 AM
Looks about right to me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 10, 2016, 01:17:53 AM
Meh, you can't please fanbases. They hated this for not being ballsie enough yet they also hated ToT for being too much.
I can't understand how can someone call this a shortage of inspiration, true, it might not be your cup of tea, but generic? Lazily written? Where?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on July 10, 2016, 01:21:29 AM
Meh, you can't please fanbases. They hated this for not being ballsie enough yet they also hated ToT for being too much.
I can't understand how can someone call this a shortage of inspiration, true, it might not be your cup of tea, but generic? Lazily written? Where?

I like the album, minus the lyrics, but I can see their point of view. After a while, unless you really know the songs well, they blur together. I've listened to the album multiple times, and still can't distinguish most of the songs from each other. They tend to share a lot of rhythms, styles and especially endings. There's like 2-4 endings that tons of the songs use.

Do I feel it's generic or lazily written? Not at all, but unless you really force yourself to listen to it a lot and really get into it, it can sound a bit like 2 hours of the same song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on July 10, 2016, 01:47:42 AM
https://scontent.fmnl4-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/13627135_10153855846912989_8021508506039335478_n.jpg?oh=d12f7957ab417c25a57fea6be0cfd7a0&oe=5832F4D7

Is it really that hard for Myung to crack a smile?  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on July 10, 2016, 05:48:48 AM
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/dream_theater/the_astonishing/ (https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/dream_theater/the_astonishing/)

Most underrated album ever.

I wouldn't say it's the most underrated album ever, but it definitely deserves better than that score.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on July 10, 2016, 07:07:01 AM
Given its length, I suspect a lot of people gave it one or two listens, decided they didn't like it, and then gave it a poor score.  Plus, Rate Your Music is a sight where your average hipster :lol goes to first to rank stuff, so you have to take that into consideration as well.  DT albums as a whole do not fair well.  Their Big Four have rankings of:

I&W 3.73
Awake 3.66
Scenes 3.74
6DOIT 3.54

So yeah, RYM is not the place to go to if you want to see DT albums rated well.

At Prog Archives, The Astonishing does have a 3.58 ranking, which is still too low, IMO, but still more fair.   That makes it tied for the 7th best score among DT records (Train of Thought also has a 3.58).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on July 10, 2016, 07:20:51 AM
I generally use Prog Archives for checking reviews since people on that site are more likely to appreciate the music better than, say, someone whose musical taste doesn't go beyond the bounds of Top 40 radio.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on July 10, 2016, 07:30:56 AM
Prog Archives is a useful guide, but the way people rate albums is terrible.  Albums often get rated based on how proggy they are, with far less regard to quality - see: Thick as a Brick always being their number 1 or 2 album of all time (BECAUSE, OMG, IT'S AN ALBUM FEATURING ONLY A 40-MINUTE PLUS SONG!!!) - plus collaborators reviews count for twice as much as anybody else's, so all it takes is a few collaborators to not like a band, and it becomes difficult for that band to get too high of a ranking since they will go in and trash all of their albums and give them low scores.  Like I said, that site is a useful guide, but their rating system is deeply flawed.  Granted, there is no perfect system.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on July 10, 2016, 07:36:42 AM
If all of the comments and reviews for The Astonishing on Rate Your Music were thoughtful and well-written, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss its low score, but considering almost every comment and review is something along the lines of...

"This band is the worst!"

"This is really uninspired!"

"[Band member] sounds like a [insulting noun]!"

... I have a hard time putting much stock into RYM's opinion. You also have to consider that, at least as far as I can tell, RYM is a place where people like to rate as much music as possible, so an album that demands two hours of one's time and multiple listens isn't going to do particularly well, in general.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on July 10, 2016, 08:03:13 AM
Prog Archives is a useful guide, but the way people rate albums is terrible.  Albums often get rated based on how proggy they are, with far less regard to quality - see: Thick as a Brick always being their number 1 or 2 album of all time (BECAUSE, OMG, IT'S AN ALBUM FEATURING ONLY A 40-MINUTE PLUS SONG!!!) - plus collaborators reviews count for twice as much as anybody else's, so all it takes is a few collaborators to not like a band, and it becomes difficult for that band to get too high of a ranking since they will go in and trash all of their albums and give them low scores.  Like I said, that site is a useful guide, but their rating system is deeply flawed.  Granted, there is no perfect system.

I usually read the reviews themselves, and yes, sort out the ones that seem sensationalized. I know exactly what you're saying. You can tell just by reading the reviews whether or not someone is giving a legitimate and unbiased review or just exhibiting favoritism for the bands they like. For the purpose of looking up prog releases, especially the more obscure artists, it's the best site out there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 10, 2016, 07:36:43 PM
There are no worst comments than those of DT's FB posts aimed at their mexican fanbase.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on July 11, 2016, 02:45:09 PM
Given its length, I suspect a lot of people gave it one or two listens, decided they didn't like it, and then gave it a poor score.  Plus, Rate Your Music is a sight where your average hipster :lol goes to first to rank stuff, so you have to take that into consideration as well.  DT albums as a whole do not fair well.  Their Big Four have rankings of:

I&W 3.73
Awake 3.66
Scenes 3.74
6DOIT 3.54

So yeah, RYM is not the place to go to if you want to see DT albums rated well.

Just because DT overall ranks lower on RYM as compared to other bands, has no bearing on the internal ranking between DT albums on that site. Like it or not, the same people who (like on every other place) ranked I&W, Awake, Scenes and 6DOIT as the top albums, thus establishing that they listened to the albums, however gave TA a horrendous rating.

I find there's a lot of acrobatics going on in this place to make it look as if TA was better received than it was.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on July 11, 2016, 02:57:27 PM
I find there's a lot of acrobatics going on in this place to make it look as if TA was better received than it was.

Well this is a fan site and we are more likely to see positivity here.

Regardless, I believe the truth to this is in the concert attendance #s.  Does DT do another tour of Europe and US only playing TA?  I think that will be telling as well.

I do think this album will be better reviewed in the years to come personally.  Some albums grow stale, but this one was and still is a grower.  I think I initially had it near the bottom of my album rankings (although still considering it to be very good) but I think it's been slowly moving on up and may be in the upper half now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: NoseofNicko on July 11, 2016, 06:32:28 PM
Gave it a listen for the first time in a couple of months. Still a great experience.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on July 11, 2016, 06:49:22 PM


I find there's a lot of acrobatics going on in this place to make it look as if TA was better received than it was.

Not by me. I was pretty vocal in the thread about TA's second leg that they should maybe do a body of work set list because of how well TA hasn't been received, so I am well aware that as a whole it isn't that well liked, at least online.  I am just saying, with RYM, that is a site populated more by certain kinds of fans (see: that album by Neutral Milk Hotel being in their all-time top 25 :lol :lol :lol), so bands like DT generally aren't going to get high praise there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 11, 2016, 11:28:07 PM
I didn't hear/see a single person qqing about TA at today's show which was almost sold out.

We all sang our asses and I saw plenty of tears around, including mine. Seriously, what a crowd.
Also, we sang Happy Birthday to JP.
The crowd interaction was great and even JM moved alot around stage.
So not well received my ass, it is totally up there. And thank god they played it.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on July 12, 2016, 05:01:25 AM
I didn't hear/see a single person qqing about TA at today's show which was almost sold out.

We all sang our asses and I saw plenty of tears around, including mine. Seriously, what a crowd.
Also, we sang Happy Birthday to JP.
The crowd interaction was great and even JM moved alot around stage.
So not well received my ass, it is totally up there. And thank god they played it.

Good to hear. :hat :coolio
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ytsejam58 on July 12, 2016, 11:42:24 PM
I know mine is an unpopular opinion but I was just astoundingly disappointed with this release. It's riddled with sloppy lyrics, unimaginative musicianship, (Except for a few amazing moments of progness) and there is even a few sloppy editing slip ups I heard. The very end of a Tempting Offer around 3:38. Read the lyrics and just hear how messed up that sounds. It's unexcusable and no other DT album would have allowed that sort of slip up to occur. Portnoy was half of the production team. Now it's all Petrucci and I feel it's Petrucci's fault for how this album sounded. It was all his idea, his lyrics, his music, all his. This should have been john Petrucci's The Astonishing.
I'm just confused when people call this a masterpiece. It doesn't match up to other epics of it's kind, it doesn't match up to DT's history of prog epis, it doesn't even compare to Prog epics that exist in the 2010's. It just falls so short of its goal that it doesn't even deserve its title. It was so hyped to be the epic to break all epics and it wasn't! By the time I get to Act of Faythe I just started crying by how boring the music And lyrics were. Petrucci put the story first above everything, and if the listener won't care about the story, then the music suffers for it. When music is first like let's say any other Dream Theater album, the lyrics could be Meh but it still had the music to fall on. Not in this album. It's just so broken. This is the Sonic Boom/ Phantom Menace of Dream Theater albums. Sorry guys.
I am a huge DT/Prog/Music fan which is why I feel so strongly about my hatred for this album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 13, 2016, 12:20:37 AM
I know mine is an unpopular opinion but I was just astoundingly disappointed with this release. It's riddled with sloppy lyrics, unimaginative musicianship, (Except for a few amazing moments of progness) and there is even a few sloppy editing slip ups I heard. The very end of a Tempting Offer around 3:38. Read the lyrics and just hear how messed up that sounds. It's unexcusable and no other DT album would have allowed that sort of slip up to occur. Portnoy was half of the production team. Now it's all Petrucci and I feel it's Petrucci's fault for how this album sounded. It was all his idea, his lyrics, his music, all his. This should have been john Petrucci's The Astonishing.
I'm just confused when people call this a masterpiece. It doesn't match up to other epics of it's kind, it doesn't match up to DT's history of prog epis, it doesn't even compare to Prog epics that exist in the 2010's. It just falls so short of its goal that it doesn't even deserve its title. It was so hyped to be the epic to break all epics and it wasn't! By the time I get to Act of Faythe I just started crying by how boring the music And lyrics were. Petrucci put the story first above everything, and if the listener won't care about the story, then the music suffers for it. When music is first like let's say any other Dream Theater album, the lyrics could be Meh but it still had the music to fall on. Not in this album. It's just so broken. This is the Sonic Boom/ Phantom Menace of Dream Theater albums. Sorry guys.
I am a huge DT/Prog/Music fan which is why I feel so strongly about my hatred for this album.

I suspect you didn't like it.
Seriously, my only issue with you is that as much as I hate something, I wouldn't go as far as to compare it to Sonic Boom, please man, have a little sense...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on July 13, 2016, 12:37:25 AM
I know mine is an unpopular opinion but I was just astoundingly disappointed with this release. It's riddled with sloppy lyrics, unimaginative musicianship, (Except for a few amazing moments of progness) and there is even a few sloppy editing slip ups I heard. The very end of a Tempting Offer around 3:38. Read the lyrics and just hear how messed up that sounds. It's unexcusable and no other DT album would have allowed that sort of slip up to occur. Portnoy was half of the production team. Now it's all Petrucci and I feel it's Petrucci's fault for how this album sounded. It was all his idea, his lyrics, his music, all his. This should have been john Petrucci's The Astonishing.
I'm just confused when people call this a masterpiece. It doesn't match up to other epics of it's kind, it doesn't match up to DT's history of prog epis, it doesn't even compare to Prog epics that exist in the 2010's. It just falls so short of its goal that it doesn't even deserve its title. It was so hyped to be the epic to break all epics and it wasn't! By the time I get to Act of Faythe I just started crying by how boring the music And lyrics were. Petrucci put the story first above everything, and if the listener won't care about the story, then the music suffers for it. When music is first like let's say any other Dream Theater album, the lyrics could be Meh but it still had the music to fall on. Not in this album. It's just so broken. This is the Sonic Boom/ Phantom Menace of Dream Theater albums. Sorry guys.
I am a huge DT/Prog/Music fan which is why I feel so strongly about my hatred for this album.
You don't have to be sorry. It's nice to have differing opinions, but I don't think you get what the album is at all.

It was never meant to be the prog epic to end prog epics (and I don't really know what a 2010-prog epic really is  :lol). The Astonishing basically a musical, and if you aren't in that headspace you aren't probably gonna enjoy it. Yeah, the lyrics can be kinda silly at times, but Dream Theater has been writing less-than-stellar lyrics for over a decade now, and that hasn't made the band's music less enjoyable (LET ME INTRODUCEEEE MY BROTHA! A BITTER GENTLEMAN, HISTORIAN! Never Enough?).

You kinda blame John Petrucci for your hatred of the album, and that's silly. Even though the concept was originally JP's, this is as much a Dream Theater album as A Dramatic Turn of Events was (which is commonly regarded as one of DT's best post-2005 albums). JP and JR got credited fully as the writers for the first time, but that doesn't mean the writing/recording dynamic was different than what we had in, for example, Dream Theater. Some people (me included) consider this a masterpiece because of what it represents as a musical evolution of the band, and the effort of creating something so ambitious that got away so much from the traditional DT sound without losing its edge. For the first time ever, DT chose melody over technicality and overblown progressiveness, and that's something that I will always cherish. This album is basically full of beautiful themes that get stuck in my head for days, which is something I enjoy a lot in music. I'd rather have an incredible and memorable theme or melody over an overblown Dance of Eternity-15/16 time signature bonanza, but that's just me. I'm a more theme-oriented guy, which is probably why I liked this album so much.

Once again, you don't have to like it. It's nice to discuss differing opinions, but you calling it utter garbage and hoping some people will agree with you isn't gonna take you anywhere lol.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lynxo on July 13, 2016, 02:32:33 AM
While I wouldn't phrase it quite that harshly, I kinda agree. For me, there's nothing interesting about the story and the lyrics kind of destroy the mood for me at times. (MY MUUUUSIC PLAAAAYAAA.) Yeah, I know this is a common DT problem but I've felt that way about previous songs too, like for example The Count of Tuscany. The big difference for me is that the entire album is filled with moments like that.

And if we're talking about the music, then I would still call it quite unimaginative and frankly boring. Yeah, it is certainly well written and performed but it lacks character and expression. To me, it feels like a lesser band trying to sound like Dream Theater.

So yeah, I get that my opinion is, at least on this forum, is an unpopular one. But after listening to it for several months and seeing the album performed in its entirety, I've come to this conclusion. Sadly, it's the first DT album I've been disappointed in.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on July 13, 2016, 06:08:04 AM
The very end of a Tempting Offer around 3:38. Read the lyrics and just hear how messed up that sounds. It's unexcusable and no other DT album would have allowed that sort of slip up to occur.

Except SFaM (in Fatal Tragedy).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on July 13, 2016, 09:36:09 AM
The very end of a Tempting Offer around 3:38. Read the lyrics and just hear how messed up that sounds. It's unexcusable and no other DT album would have allowed that sort of slip up to occur.

Except SFaM (in Fatal Tragedy).
Wait, what? Which moment are you referring to?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on July 13, 2016, 12:32:09 PM
The very end of a Tempting Offer around 3:38. Read the lyrics and just hear how messed up that sounds. It's unexcusable and no other DT album would have allowed that sort of slip up to occur.

Except SFaM (in Fatal Tragedy).
Wait, what? Which moment are you referring to?

The glitch after the intro.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on July 13, 2016, 01:29:32 PM
I'm just confused when people call this a masterpiece.

Outside this forum, it's not. Earlier in this thread we discussed RateYourMusic.com and sputnik.com, and both sites' numerous reviews rate TA as the lowest album of their catalog.

For me, it simply comes down to, JP and JR aimed way too high. Like, wayyyyy too high. So, even though they gave themselves more time than usual, the vast scope of the album (music, lyrics, story, artwork etc etc) stretched them so thin that each aspect came out poor.

For me, A New Beginning 3:25-3:50 is so mind-boggingly the worst music DT has ever penned, I just can't fathom that the same guys who wrote SFAM didn't stop halfway into writing that part and said "aaaaand, onto the cutting floor". That 25 seconds section encapsulates all that is wrong with the album, IMO. Sequencer-sounding drums, wtf lyrics, "Frozen"-style music.

EDIT: Honorable mention to the beginning of "Losing Faythe", which is total wtf too. First, the pun (Faith vs Faythe) that was overused by that point. Then, the freesound.org sample of the crickets. And then, yes, a guy pretending to be a woman crying.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 13, 2016, 01:46:49 PM
Well...

Growling "SELF-RESTRAINT!" "INVENTORY" "ANALYSIS" and "I am responsible!" are the worst lyrics in any DT song for me.

But I see your point, I personally think they could have used the full near 160 minutes both CD's have. JLB is a skilled lyricist, so maybe JP should have asked for assistance?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on July 13, 2016, 01:50:59 PM
Well...

Growling "SELF-RESTRAINT!" "INVENTORY" "ANALYSIS" and "I am responsible!" are the worst lyrics in any DT song for me.

But I see your point, I personally think they could have used the full near 160 minutes both CD's have. JLB is a skilled lyricist, so maybe JP should have asked for assistance?

I dunno, as a therapist, I often find myself growling ANALYSIS to my clients.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on July 13, 2016, 01:51:52 PM
Well, that's of course another aspect, and one that's been plaguing them for a long time. There's 5 guys in the band, but somehow it seems to fall to always 2 guys to do the whole thing. JP wrote the lyrics and the story, JP+JR wrote the music... What did JM, JLB and MM do? Is there such a two-tier system in DT now that the "lower ranks" have no say at all anymore, not even percolating up suggestions?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on July 13, 2016, 01:56:49 PM
I'm just confused when people call this a masterpiece.

Outside this forum, it's not.

So you are going to tell me that nobody out there thinks this is a masterpiece except those on this forum?  :lol  Come on. It might not be their best work, but you're just coming up with shortsighted and bitter statements like that one because of how you feel about it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 13, 2016, 01:57:00 PM
Well, that's of course another aspect, and one that's been plaguing them for a long time. There's 5 guys in the band, but somehow it seems to fall to always 2 guys to do the whole thing. JP wrote the lyrics and the story, JP+JR wrote the music... What did JM, JLB and MM do? Is there such a two-tier system in DT now that the "lower ranks" have no say at all anymore, not even percolating up suggestions?

I'm pretty sure JLB would have sung the album in a very different way. Judging from the interviews, JP was frequently on skype with him and seeing how he was doing and would often tell him to change things. Maybe JLB was trying something different or odd? And maybe some of the changes he did make made it all the way to the final product, in which case, JLB does indeed contribute to the vocal melodies.

The extent of MM and JM, I can't see them doing much out of the instrumental sections.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on July 13, 2016, 01:58:59 PM
I'm just confused when people call this a masterpiece.

Outside this forum, it's not.

So you are going to tell me that nobody out there thinks this is a masterpiece except those on this forum?  :lol  Come on. It might not be their best work, but you're just coming up with shortsighted and bitter statements like that one because of how you feel about it.

So, you're using the "well, I know a guy who isn't on DTF but likes the album" argument? The best proxy for public opinion on the album we have is RYM and Sputnik. I can personally say that my friends have been vocally saying "wtf?" about the album. And the Boston audience response was very reserved.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on July 13, 2016, 02:01:01 PM
I'm just confused when people call this a masterpiece.

Outside this forum, it's not.

So you are going to tell me that nobody out there thinks this is a masterpiece except those on this forum?  :lol  Come on. It might not be their best work, but you're just coming up with shortsighted and bitter statements like that one because of how you feel about it.

So, you're using the "well, I know a guy who isn't on DTF but likes the album" argument? The best proxy for public opinion on the album we have is RYM and Sputnik. I can personally say that my friends have been vocally saying "wtf?" about the album.

I'm using common sense to defuse your statement. Nothing more. Nothing less. They have a couple of million likes on their Facebook. Don't tell me none of those people think that it's a masterpiece and do not come to this forum.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 13, 2016, 02:03:42 PM
There are a lot of people who absolutely hate the album.
Like a couple that was sitting several seats to my right, they left in the intermission and never came back, lol.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on July 13, 2016, 02:04:03 PM
I'm just confused when people call this a masterpiece.

Outside this forum, it's not.

So you are going to tell me that nobody out there thinks this is a masterpiece except those on this forum?  :lol  Come on. It might not be their best work, but you're just coming up with shortsighted and bitter statements like that one because of how you feel about it.

So, you're using the "well, I know a guy who isn't on DTF but likes the album" argument? The best proxy for public opinion on the album we have is RYM and Sputnik. I can personally say that my friends have been vocally saying "wtf?" about the album.

I'm using common sense to defuse your statement. Nothing more. Nothing less. They have a couple of million likes on their Facebook. Don't tell me none of those people think that it's a masterpiece and do not come to this forum.

It's a strawman argument. My comment of "outside of this forum, it's not considered a masterpiece" obviously wasn't meant as "there is not a single person outside of DTF, not even in the deserted jungles of the Yanomamo people, who considers TA a masterpiece". The point I was making obviously was, the general consensus, i.e. the mode of the distribution, outside of DTF, is that it did not live up to its own hype.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 13, 2016, 02:04:22 PM
Lets be honest though guys this isn't a normal DT album and it was going to bring out a lot of either "Holy Cow this is awesome!" to "WTF did I just listen to?  This isn't my DT?"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 13, 2016, 02:05:12 PM
Lets be honest though guys this isn't a normal DT album and it was going to bring out a love of either "Holy Cow this is awesome!" to "WTF did I just listen to?  This isn't my Kevin Moore?"
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 13, 2016, 02:06:51 PM
Lets be honest though guys this isn't a normal DT album and it was going to bring out a love of either "Holy Cow this is awesome!" to "WTF did I just listen to?  This isn't my Kevin Moore?"

I fixed my typo of love to lot.  lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 13, 2016, 02:24:31 PM
I guess the king has spoken! :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on July 13, 2016, 02:24:42 PM
For me, A New Beginning 3:25-3:50 is so mind-boggingly the worst music DT has ever penned

The entire first half of A New Beggining is the worst thing on the album. Though I'd still call it better than anything on WDADU .
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on July 13, 2016, 02:33:46 PM
I'm just confused when people call this a masterpiece.

Outside this forum, it's not.

So you are going to tell me that nobody out there thinks this is a masterpiece except those on this forum?  :lol  Come on. It might not be their best work, but you're just coming up with shortsighted and bitter statements like that one because of how you feel about it.

So, you're using the "well, I know a guy who isn't on DTF but likes the album" argument? The best proxy for public opinion on the album we have is RYM and Sputnik. I can personally say that my friends have been vocally saying "wtf?" about the album.

I'm using common sense to defuse your statement. Nothing more. Nothing less. They have a couple of million likes on their Facebook. Don't tell me none of those people think that it's a masterpiece and do not come to this forum.

It's a strawman argument. My comment of "outside of this forum, it's not considered a masterpiece" obviously wasn't meant as "there is not a single person outside of DTF, not even in the deserted jungles of the Yanomamo people, who considers TA a masterpiece". The point I was making obviously was, the general consensus, i.e. the mode of the distribution, outside of DTF, is that it did not live up to its own hype.

First of all, it's not a strawman argument. You made a statement. I countered your statement. Secondly, if you want to change your argument and clarify it better after the fact that's your own problem. Own your mistakes. Don't hide behind a clarification issue, dearie.  ;)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on July 13, 2016, 02:34:46 PM
I dont know, A New Beginning is one of the best songs on the album and up there with some of the best of DT IMO

It was one of the few songs that really stood out to me on first listen, most of the album just kind of blended together until I got up to maybe 10 listens when I was able to break it all out and understand the music better.  But ANB was great from the getgo for me.  I thought most agreed it was one of the better tracks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on July 13, 2016, 02:37:07 PM
... And the Boston audience response was very reserved.

That's because I wasn't there!  ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on July 13, 2016, 02:44:59 PM
... And the Boston audience response was very reserved.

That's because I wasn't there!  ;D

I think all of the audiences were reserved given the whole theater presentation of the show.  Really sucks the life out of a concert if you cant rock out.  I know I tried my best to rock out but I could only do so much  :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on July 13, 2016, 02:47:04 PM
... And the Boston audience response was very reserved.

That's because I wasn't there!  ;D

I think all of the audiences were reserved given the whole theater presentation of the show.  Really sucks the life out of a concert if you cant rock out.  I know I tried my best to rock out but I could only do so much  :metal

Watching your drunkenness rock out was almost as awesome as the show. :lol  I know we've said this before but... That poor usher.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on July 13, 2016, 02:50:03 PM
... And the Boston audience response was very reserved.

That's because I wasn't there!  ;D

I think all of the audiences were reserved given the whole theater presentation of the show.  Really sucks the life out of a concert if you cant rock out.  I know I tried my best to rock out but I could only do so much  :metal

Watching your drunkenness rock out was almost as awesome as the show. :lol  I know we've said this before but... That poor usher.

(https://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/247/207/813.gif)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 13, 2016, 02:50:23 PM
... And the Boston audience response was very reserved.

That's because I wasn't there!  ;D

I know.  I didn't see a walker in the aisles.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on July 13, 2016, 02:55:15 PM
... And the Boston audience response was very reserved.

That's because I wasn't there!  ;D

I know.  I didn't see a walker in the aisles.
:lol
Hey, why do you think you got that parking spot so close to the Orpheum?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on July 13, 2016, 03:20:51 PM
... And the Boston audience response was very reserved.

That's because I wasn't there!  ;D

I think all of the audiences were reserved given the whole theater presentation of the show.  Really sucks the life out of a concert if you cant rock out.  I know I tried my best to rock out but I could only do so much  :metal

Watching your drunkenness rock out was almost as awesome as the show. :lol  I know we've said this before but... That poor usher.

(https://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/247/207/813.gif)

:lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on July 13, 2016, 03:45:57 PM
EDIT: Honorable mention to the beginning of "Losing Faythe", which is total wtf too. First, the pun (Faith vs Faythe) that was overused by that point. Then, the freesound.org sample of the crickets. And then, yes, a guy pretending to be a woman crying.
I'm curious, honestly - has it been officially confirmed that James did those crying sounds? Or was it someone else, and I haven't read about it? Thanks!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on July 13, 2016, 03:57:16 PM
Dang, it's getting heated in here fellas! :o

I think it's fair to say that there are those who think The Astonishing missed the mark. I think it's also fair to say that there are those who think it hit the ball out of the park. As to what the average reaction to the album was... Who knows, really? If I had to guess, then I'd probably say that the album was a tad under-received, but I still love the thing to death.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on July 13, 2016, 05:15:47 PM
I listened to the album again over the last two days. An Act a Day.

Act I is easily the better Act. That repeating cricket sound is distracting. And they use it twice.

I still enjoy it and there's no point where I go " Oh no it's this song - skip ".

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on July 13, 2016, 05:16:32 PM


For me, A New Beginning 3:25-3:50 is so mind-boggingly the worst music DT has ever penned, I just can't fathom that the same guys who wrote SFAM didn't stop halfway into writing that part and said "aaaaand, onto the cutting floor". That 25 seconds section encapsulates all that is wrong with the album, IMO. Sequencer-sounding drums, wtf lyrics, "Frozen"-style music.
 

 ??? That might be the most bizarre opinion I've seen here in quite some time, and I usually agree with you more often than not.



EDIT: Honorable mention to the beginning of "Losing Faythe", which is total wtf too. First, the pun (Faith vs Faythe) that was overused by that point. Then, the freesound.org sample of the crickets. And then, yes, a guy pretending to be a woman crying.

On the flip side, I agree that the crying part is a bit...odd.  I guess it's good for me that I rarely listen to that song (even though the last 85 seconds is aces), so I almost never hear that part.  :lol :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on July 13, 2016, 05:20:30 PM
The crying is bad for sure.  Honestly I feel DT has always been poor with using audio snips from other sources in their music, this is just another example.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on July 13, 2016, 05:22:05 PM
  Petrucci put the story first above everything, and if the listener won't care about the story, then the music suffers for it.

I still totally disagree with this.  I have been listening to this a lot since the day it came out, 5 1/2 months ago, and I still have NEVER go out of my way to read the lyrics, and while I know the general gist of the story now, I still don't much of the particulars, yet I love most of it*...because the music is mostly great.

*I still think almost all of Act 1 is great, only one or two songs I would say are not great, not counting the NOMAC tracks.  And while Act 2 loses its way for a bit, it still has some great songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on July 13, 2016, 06:01:05 PM
On the Eddie Trunk interview, JP said that he and JR approached the band and asked that the entire thing be written by them, without input from the other guys.

I can see why they had that idea, but it might have been beneficial to present the band with the finished product (as we hear it today) and get their input. Really all The Astonishing needed was an editor. It sounds like nobody wanted to question JP's creative decisions.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 13, 2016, 06:08:23 PM
This kind of album resonates with some and not for others. I still say I'm happy that they are stretching their musical legs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on July 13, 2016, 06:11:09 PM
I did enjoy the album and I'm thrilled that they're doing something different, but there was definitely room for improvement.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on July 13, 2016, 08:06:23 PM
On the Eddie Trunk interview, JP said that he and JR approached the band and asked that the entire thing be written by them, without input from the other guys.

I can see why they had that idea, but it might have been beneficial to present the band with the finished product (as we hear it today) and get their input. Really all The Astonishing needed was an editor. It sounds like nobody wanted to question JP's creative decisions.
That's what happens when the producer of the album is a band member. Someone has to be on the helm, and it happens to be JP in this case. I know that some people have been pleading for an outside producer for DT for years, but that isn't gonna happen. Even if JP (and MP) have made some questionable decisions as producers, they have also made some outstanding work as well (SFAM? SDOIT?).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 13, 2016, 08:10:12 PM
To me, the,band needs an outside producer.   It always invigorates a band.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 13, 2016, 08:15:30 PM
For me, it simply comes down to, JP and JR aimed way too high. Like, wayyyyy too high. So, even though they gave themselves more time than usual, the vast scope of the album (music, lyrics, story, artwork etc etc) stretched them so thin that each aspect came out poor.


This is how I feel, and it's the reason that from the start I was apprehensive about a concept album (or anything similar), and didn't want a double album.
I think the album is very ambitious, and kicks off with a bang, with some of DT's best music in a long time, but I think they over-extended themselves with the whole idea, and for me it starts to fizzle out about 1/3 of the way in, and then largely feels like needing to put music behind the rest of the story, with some exceptions where it still shines such as Our New World. Starting the creative process with a story that requires a double album to tell boxes you into an obligatory amount of music to cover it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on July 13, 2016, 08:23:32 PM
To me, the,band needs an outside producer.   It always invigorates a band.

Probably, yeah. I've been on that wagon many times, but I don't think it's of any use of wishing that because it ain't gonna happen. They're happy where they are, and they're successful where they are. Also, more than half of their discography has been self-produced. Why change that now? I'm quite sure they would look elsewhere for an outside producer if an album had strong negative impact on the fanbase, but that has never been DT's case. The haters are a vocal minority, and as with every album the opinions are kinda polarised in some circles; but all in all the albums are incredibly well received and the concerts are still going strong. It wouldn't make sense to change a dynamic that works for them.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on July 13, 2016, 09:17:44 PM
Just because something is working doesn't mean you still can't change it.  There's no fun in being safe. ;)  To use Rush as an example again, things were going awesome for them in the early 80s - that was arguably the height of their popularity - but they needed a change, so they chucked their longtime friend and producer Terry Brown, because they wanted a challenge and different ears to treat their music.  I doubt DT will ever get an outside producer again, but I'd love it if they did.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on July 13, 2016, 09:42:42 PM
I generally agree with that. The Astonishing had mixed results but I'm glad they tried it. Before this album people were complaining that DT were playing it safe and getting generic. You can't really use that argument anymore. At least not until the next album, we'll see what happens.

I think the first disc is generally solid throughout so I don't think it's that bad. It's still 70 minutes worth of enjoyable music when you cut out the bad stuff, so it's already better than a few DT albums.

I've been thinking about the outside producer thing a lot lately, listening to some DT stuff as well as the latest Flying Colors album (which also suffers partially due to not having an outside producer IMO). I totally get why MP and JP have an aversion to that and I think self producing worked with fantastic results all the way until Octavarium. I think signing on to Roadrunner would've been a good chance to seek out a producer who understands the band and their needs. I don't think having an outside producer was the problem as much as the record label was assigning the wrong people.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 13, 2016, 10:32:15 PM
Maybe I am too much of a noob, but my band and me are just starting writing our first material, this is the first time we sit down and jam/write together and so far it's going great.

One of us one day has an idea, and writes some stuff for it, and then presents it to us and we work on it. Other times, for example myself, I wrote a song totally by myself, but I couldn't push it forward without showing it to the other guys because I feel it certainly needs other influences. I'm this Angra/DT/Nightwish/Stratovarious musician and another bandmate is very Coldplay/Nirvana/Jazz fellah and another guy is this Muse/PinkFloyd and the last one is just a straightforward metalhead, so we get this interesting fusion which so far I'm loving. The point is, when I present the product, they all go like "Sure this is great, but what if we try this?" and they would try something else to play along with it, without altering all from what I had. I sincerely can't understand those guys who belong in a band and write everything by themselves and just teach the other bandmembers how to play it. I honestly can't imagine myself just "forcing" my bandmates to play what I want without hearing their thoughts first.

Which is why I hope TA, which as much as I consider it to be a masterpiece, goes as just as a temporal experiment and it doesn't mean JP and JR will write everything from now on. JM and MM are much more experimented musicians than we are, so their inputs and ideas must be truly colossal.
Just thoughts.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on July 13, 2016, 10:44:44 PM
I see that a lot of people are thinking the same way than me about TA. I thought many times I could change my mind after many listens to it but recently I had surrender. And then all these comments towards my thoughts of the album. But I say that with respect because I love these guys.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on July 13, 2016, 10:57:31 PM
JP and JR did write all the music, but not what's recorded by JM and MM. They are free to add their own flavor to it. Which means nothing really, just that they didn't write the melodies, structures and tempos, rhythms.

Guaranteed this next album will have input from everybody. Since, it'll be a nice change and maybe more JLB and Myung lyrics.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on July 14, 2016, 04:07:26 AM
The more I listen to The Astonishing, the more I appreciate Myung's subtle contributions. Every now and then, neither the guitar nor the keyboard is in the forefront, and JM knows that's his time to add a little something to a section that might sound slightly empty otherwise. He sure found his place on this album, it's impressive.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on July 14, 2016, 05:11:19 AM
Just because something is working doesn't mean you still can't change it.  There's no fun in being safe. ;)  To use Rush as an example again, things were going awesome for them in the early 80s - that was arguably the height of their popularity - but they needed a change, so they chucked their longtime friend and producer Terry Brown, because they wanted a challenge and different ears to treat their music.  I doubt DT will ever get an outside producer again, but I'd love it if they did.

It would be interesting to see who they would actually pick. Of course I'd hope for Steven Wilson, but that would never happen. As far as sound, I think getting Kevin Shirley would be awesome. FII, while one of their poorest albums as far as song composition and song choice, was sonically one of their best releases. I don't want him fucking with the songs themselves! We don't need another Hawaiian intro to Take Away My Pain.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on July 14, 2016, 06:05:33 AM

For me, it simply comes down to, JP and JR aimed way too high. Like, wayyyyy too high. So, even though they gave themselves more time than usual, the vast scope of the album (music, lyrics, story, artwork etc etc) stretched them so thin that each aspect came out poor.


 :o :o :o Nope. The artwork is the best they've had in YEARS. If anything - the previous three or four were really poor.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on July 14, 2016, 06:15:54 AM
  Petrucci put the story first above everything, and if the listener won't care about the story, then the music suffers for it.

I still totally disagree with this.  I have been listening to this a lot since the day it came out, 5 1/2 months ago, and I still have NEVER go out of my way to read the lyrics, and while I know the general gist of the story now, I still don't much of the particulars, yet I love most of it*...because the music is mostly great.

I second this.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on July 14, 2016, 06:21:30 AM
Just because something is working doesn't mean you still can't change it.  There's no fun in being safe. ;)  To use Rush as an example again, things were going awesome for them in the early 80s - that was arguably the height of their popularity - but they needed a change, so they chucked their longtime friend and producer Terry Brown, because they wanted a challenge and different ears to treat their music.  I doubt DT will ever get an outside producer again, but I'd love it if they did.

It would be interesting to see who they would actually pick. Of course I'd hope for Steven Wilson, but that would never happen. As far as sound, I think getting Kevin Shirley would be awesome. FII, while one of their poorest albums as far as song composition and song choice, was sonically one of their best releases. I don't want him fucking with the songs themselves! We don't need another Hawaiian intro to Take Away My Pain.  :lol

I don't even know what that means. :lol :biggrin:  Nothing wrong at all with the intro to Take Away My Pain or the song in general; it's a fine tune overall, as recorded and released on FII. :coolio
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on July 14, 2016, 06:26:43 AM
It would be interesting to see who they would actually pick. Of course I'd hope for Steven Wilson, but that would never happen.

I like DT. I like Steven Wilson (as a musician, songwriter, and producer). But, I don't think that would be a good match for variety of reasons.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on July 14, 2016, 06:27:26 AM
Just because something is working doesn't mean you still can't change it.  There's no fun in being safe. ;)  To use Rush as an example again, things were going awesome for them in the early 80s - that was arguably the height of their popularity - but they needed a change, so they chucked their longtime friend and producer Terry Brown, because they wanted a challenge and different ears to treat their music.  I doubt DT will ever get an outside producer again, but I'd love it if they did.

It would be interesting to see who they would actually pick. Of course I'd hope for Steven Wilson, but that would never happen. As far as sound, I think getting Kevin Shirley would be awesome. FII, while one of their poorest albums as far as song composition and song choice, was sonically one of their best releases. I don't want him fucking with the songs themselves! We don't need another Hawaiian intro to Take Away My Pain.  :lol

I don't even know what that means. :lol :biggrin:  Nothing wrong at all with the intro to Take Away My Pain or the song in general; it's a fine tune overall, as recorded and released on FII. :coolio

I prefer the demo version with the straight acoustic/vocal intro.  :)

It would be interesting to see who they would actually pick. Of course I'd hope for Steven Wilson, but that would never happen.

I like DT. I like Steven Wilson (as a musician, songwriter, and producer). But, I don't think that would be a good match for variety of reasons.

That's why I said I it would never happen.  :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on July 14, 2016, 06:27:59 AM
I prefer the Fix For '96 version.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on July 14, 2016, 06:33:32 AM
That's why I said I it would never happen.  :)

So why would you hope for it if you agree it wouldn't be a good match? :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on July 14, 2016, 07:01:23 AM
The more I listen to The Astonishing, the more I appreciate Myung's subtle contributions. Every now and then, neither the guitar nor the keyboard is in the forefront, and JM knows that's his time to add a little something to a section that might sound slightly empty otherwise. He sure found his place on this album, it's impressive.

Yep, Myung is amazing in this album. Even in the ballads like Chosen.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on July 14, 2016, 08:18:31 AM
That's why I said I it would never happen.  :)

So why would you hope for it if you agree it wouldn't be a good match? :lol

I think DT could benefit from his production expertise.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on July 14, 2016, 09:24:42 AM
That's why I said I it would never happen.  :)

So why would you hope for it if you agree it wouldn't be a good match? :lol

I think DT could benefit from his production expertise.

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative, I'm asking out of curiosity... What specifically do you think Steven would bring to the table as a producer in DT that would be benefical for the band? You thinking more on the song arranging side of things or the sonic side of production?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on July 14, 2016, 09:33:01 AM
I don't think they need any help with song arrangements, though I'm sure they would be open to a producer's opinion. I think SW would be exceedingly beneficial from a sonic perspective. I love how his albums sound. They're this perfect balance between each instrument and vocals. Granted, his albums portray a different mood from that of DT, but I can't help but feel that there are a handful of moments on the last few releases that could have been approached better.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on July 14, 2016, 09:39:53 AM
I don't think they need any help with song arrangements, though I'm sure they would be open to a producer's opinion. I think SW would be exceedingly beneficial from a sonic perspective. I love how his albums sound. They're this perfect balance between each instrument and vocals. Granted, his albums portray a different mood from that of DT, but I can't help but feel that there are a handful of moments on the last few releases that could have been approached better.

That's fair, I'd agree that Steven's stuff usually sounds fantastic from a sonic perspective. It's the difference in mood that would cause me to pause, but it would definitely be an interesting collaboration.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on July 14, 2016, 11:39:28 AM
I know that SW working with DT is a lot of folks' prog wet dream, but it ain't gonna happen. DT's style doesn't fit SW in any sense, so it wouldn't be very beneficial to the band having him.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 14, 2016, 11:43:28 AM
I know that SW working with DT is a lot of folks' prog wet dream, but it ain't gonna happen. DT's style doesn't fit SW in any sense, so it wouldn't be very beneficial to the band having him.

Though at the time of Stupid Dream did you ever think SW would work with Opeth?  I sure didn't.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on July 14, 2016, 11:46:55 AM
I don't think they need any help with song arrangements, though I'm sure they would be open to a producer's opinion. I think SW would be exceedingly beneficial from a sonic perspective. I love how his albums sound. They're this perfect balance between each instrument and vocals. Granted, his albums portray a different mood from that of DT, but I can't help but feel that there are a handful of moments on the last few releases that could have been approached better.

That's fair, I'd agree that Steven's stuff usually sounds fantastic from a sonic perspective. It's the difference in mood that would cause me to pause, but it would definitely be an interesting collaboration.

From a sonic perspective, I think The Astonishing sounded great so maybe DT is on the right track. The cymbals could be higher in the mix but my guess is that it's already competing with the sonic space filled by the orchestra, so they dialed it down.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on July 14, 2016, 11:47:42 AM
I know that SW working with DT is a lot of folks' prog wet dream, but it ain't gonna happen. DT's style doesn't fit SW in any sense, so it wouldn't be very beneficial to the band having him.

Though at the time of Stupid Dream did you ever think SW would work with Opeth?  I sure didn't.
Not at all, but it's different. SW has stated several times that he's a fan of death metal and of Mikael Akerfeldt's work, so working with Opeth made sense. On the other hand, he has also stated he's not a big fan of Dream Theater.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on July 14, 2016, 11:51:18 AM
I don't think they need any help with song arrangements, though I'm sure they would be open to a producer's opinion. I think SW would be exceedingly beneficial from a sonic perspective. I love how his albums sound. They're this perfect balance between each instrument and vocals. Granted, his albums portray a different mood from that of DT, but I can't help but feel that there are a handful of moments on the last few releases that could have been approached better.

That's fair, I'd agree that Steven's stuff usually sounds fantastic from a sonic perspective. It's the difference in mood that would cause me to pause, but it would definitely be an interesting collaboration.

From a sonic perspective, I think The Astonishing sounded great so maybe DT is on the right track. The cymbals could be higher in the mix but my guess is that it's already competing with the sonic space filled by the orchestra, so they dialed it down.

It was better, I'd say the one sonic element that could have been better were the drums.  Like you said, a lot of the cymbal work was lost.

Steven usually goes for a mix that has a good bit of breathing room, DT usually does not.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 14, 2016, 12:01:01 PM
I know that SW working with DT is a lot of folks' prog wet dream, but it ain't gonna happen. DT's style doesn't fit SW in any sense, so it wouldn't be very beneficial to the band having him.

Though at the time of Stupid Dream did you ever think SW would work with Opeth?  I sure didn't.
Not at all, but it's different. SW has stated several times that he's a fan of death metal and of Mikael Akerfeldt's work, so working with Opeth made sense. On the other hand, he has also stated he's not a big fan of Dream Theater.

Ah, got it.   Not that I thing he would do it but Steven always seemed to me more open minded.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 14, 2016, 12:33:35 PM
Now that I remember, in the original TA announcement thread, I joked with other guys (Don't recall who) about a possible TA plot

"Arhys will be the hero, as he will sacrifice his life and neglect his kid and wife, all for Gabriel to be happy"

Well, shit.

YES, THE ASTONISHING idea was originally MINE, not HIS, I conceived it waaay back in 2005 with OCTAVARIUM, the song NEVER ENOUGH was foreshadowing this, but I couldn't work on it because that was THE CONCEPT ALBUM I planned to do after BC&SL!!! The first act would have been this new album and the second act would be MY 12 STEP SUITE.

So it's confirmed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 14, 2016, 05:10:50 PM
Now that I remember, in the original TA announcement thread, I joked with other guys (Don't recall who) about a possible TA plot

"Arhys will be the hero, as he will sacrifice his life and neglect his kid and wife, all for Gabriel to be happy"

Well, shit.

YES, THE ASTONISHING idea was originally MINE, not HIS, I conceived it waaay back in 2005 with OCTAVARIUM, the song NEVER ENOUGH was foreshadowing this, but I couldn't work on it because that was THE CONCEPT ALBUM I planned to do after BC&SL!!! The first act would have been this new album and the second act would be MY 12 STEP SUITE.

So it's confirmed.

What's that you wrote in green letters? Who said those words? Where? Source?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on July 15, 2016, 08:22:34 AM
I don't think they need any help with song arrangements, though I'm sure they would be open to a producer's opinion. I think SW would be exceedingly beneficial from a sonic perspective. I love how his albums sound. They're this perfect balance between each instrument and vocals. Granted, his albums portray a different mood from that of DT, but I can't help but feel that there are a handful of moments on the last few releases that could have been approached better.

That's fair, I'd agree that Steven's stuff usually sounds fantastic from a sonic perspective. It's the difference in mood that would cause me to pause, but it would definitely be an interesting collaboration.

From a sonic perspective, I think The Astonishing sounded great so maybe DT is on the right track. The cymbals could be higher in the mix but my guess is that it's already competing with the sonic space filled by the orchestra, so they dialed it down.

It was better, I'd say the one sonic element that could have been better were the drums.  Like you said, a lot of the cymbal work was lost.

Steven usually goes for a mix that has a good bit of breathing room, DT usually does not.

I would also take a SW mix over a DT any day, any time; but to be fair they're far too different, arrangement-wise, to be compared.

On The Astonishing, Rudess is playing 95% of the time, and the orchestra is playing also 95% of the time (in one form or the other). Steven Wilson has mastered a craft, as I see it, of making something sound big without the need of layering it endlessly; so the mixing approach is completely different. It's easier to make all your elements in a song pop out if you have less layers of stuff going on.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on July 15, 2016, 08:29:15 AM
Oh yeah totally agree. DT are typically going for much denser arrangements than SW, so the end result usually ends up being a denser mix.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dtvoices94 on July 15, 2016, 11:14:30 AM
I'd still be listening to it today if Fates Warning hadn't released Theories of Flight.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on July 15, 2016, 07:24:37 PM
Like has been said, SW isn't a fan of DT's style, so I am not sure he would be a good fit when it came to helping shape the songs and whatnot, but he could certainly help when it comes to mixing and sound.  Listening to TA today in the car, there is a mellow moment in The X Aspect where the vibe is really nice overall, but Mangini is hitting the drums way too hard during that section; I remember some saying that was a problem in Along for the Ride, as well. A guy like SW as the producer would a) tell Mangini to hit the drums softer, and b) mix it to where they weren't so damn loud during a section where everything else is toned down to fit the vibe they were clearly going for.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 16, 2016, 02:39:14 AM
Now that I remember, in the original TA announcement thread, I joked with other guys (Don't recall who) about a possible TA plot

"Arhys will be the hero, as he will sacrifice his life and neglect his kid and wife, all for Gabriel to be happy"

Well, shit.

YES, THE ASTONISHING idea was originally MINE, not HIS, I conceived it waaay back in 2005 with OCTAVARIUM, the song NEVER ENOUGH was foreshadowing this, but I couldn't work on it because that was THE CONCEPT ALBUM I planned to do after BC&SL!!! The first act would have been this new album and the second act would be MY 12 STEP SUITE.

So it's confirmed.

What's that you wrote in green letters? Who said those words? Where? Source?

Interview about Octavarium II
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on July 16, 2016, 04:51:51 PM
Wife and I cranked TA in its entirety on a trip to the Maine coast this weekend. Such great melodies and amazing vocals, I just can't comprehend not liking it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 16, 2016, 05:34:16 PM
Wife and I cranked TA in its entirety on a trip to the Maine coast this weekend. Such great melodies and amazing vocals, I just can't comprehend not liking it.

You better not have wussed out and not had your Steelers hat on.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on July 16, 2016, 05:58:42 PM
I just realized, I haven't listened to the Astonishing since I saw it live at the end of April.  Kinda odd, It's not like I dislike it or anything.  Maybe I just got burned out on it a bit, I did power listen too it a lot leading up to the show.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on July 16, 2016, 06:15:53 PM
Wife and I cranked TA in its entirety on a trip to the Maine coast this weekend. Such great melodies and amazing vocals, I just can't comprehend not liking it.

Good for you.  I just can't comprehend liking it.  I was listening to the last Circus Maximus today and even though a lot of old fans don't really like the new album, I think there  are much better melodies to my taste than the last DT. 

You can play me 5 TA songs and I will like them. But the whole stuff? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on July 17, 2016, 04:14:02 AM
Right now I'm listening to this album in its entirety for the first time since winter, I guess. It's so hard to take the time and sit through the whole thing, but now that I finally decided to use my Sunday, I'm so happy I did it. This whole thing still rocks my world and trills me like crazy, I've already memorized most of the lyrics and I'm singing along to the melodies and stuff. It feels like this album's been a part of me for years, not months. Remarkable.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on July 17, 2016, 05:22:29 AM
I just realized, I haven't listened to the Astonishing since I saw it live at the end of April.  Kinda odd, It's not like I dislike it or anything.  Maybe I just got burned out on it a bit, I did power listen too it a lot leading up to the show.

It happens also to me to have the attention for an album climaxing with the concert. Especially when the show is so good and I feel like "How can I top this listening experience?", so I just revel in the memories of the concert.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on July 17, 2016, 10:16:52 AM


It happens also to me to have the attention for an album climaxing with the concert. Especially when the show is so good and I feel like "How can I top this listening experience?", so I just revel in the memories of the concert.

I think you hit the nail on the head.  The show and whole NYC trip was so awesome, which in turn makes me content.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on July 17, 2016, 01:27:31 PM
Regarding SW and DT, I think SW knows where his influence would be fertile and where not. DT is a very "settled" band in a lot of ways, and more specifically, they do a lot of things very differently than SW does them. I don't think it would be a very enjoyable collaboration for either party.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 17, 2016, 01:55:31 PM
Yet, don't you think DT needs a different voice in their music Rumbo?  You of all people would agree with that.  Sometimes the best music comes out of Inner turmoil,  disagreements and being pushed.

I'd love to see it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on July 17, 2016, 02:58:40 PM
Oh yeah, of course, my previous post was not meant to be interpreted as DT needing no help. They dearly need fresh air on the production side, and with TA they also could have used help on the editing side.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 17, 2016, 03:02:14 PM
But as a realist you know the percentages of this happening is very low. Too bad, it's a microcosm of today's world.  Go to the uncomfortable.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on July 17, 2016, 04:20:12 PM
I don't know what you guys are talking about. TA is as different of a DT album that you could get. Not sure how you could bitch about the production. It's wide ranging and ambitious and anything but same old same old.

I think it's a tour de force. But that's me I guess. I don't know why there needs to be this big change. There wasn't discomfort with TA? The scope of the thing is huge, and I think it turned out great. It has many types of styles featuring many different influences. I'm in complete disagreement with the last few posts.

The fellating of Steven Wilson around here is  :facepalm:.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 17, 2016, 04:37:46 PM
Not about that at all. Tim, tell me KISS isn't at their best when a producer pushes them. 

Steven Wilson or not, Bands need to be pushed.   I feel DT needs that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Anguyen92 on July 17, 2016, 05:19:27 PM
Sometimes the best music comes out of Inner turmoil,  disagreements and being pushed.

Funny thing about this statement.  While there are certain examples where being pushed to the max can yield some good honest music, too much inner turmoil could lead to crap music.

I believe Metallica back in say early 2000s had a lot of inner conflict regarding stuff like going into rehab, a bassist leaving over the disagreement regarding side projects or not, and them leading the charge in the Napster battle.  I guess with all of this problems happening to them at the time, they had enough ammunition to rise above it and release a tremendous album, but the result ended up being St. Anger, a very polarizing album at best.

For me, a good album comes from whether or not they had a great time crafting the album knowing they did everything they could to make it the best it can be to satisfy their musical pleasures.  If DT look back years from now and still believe that The Astonishing album was among their greatest accomplishment of music they've done, cool.  I mean I wouldn't want them to look on years later after an album was released and reflect back and state that they had a miserable time creating said album, because they were unreasonably pushed around too much and the enthusiasm wasn't just there, and that they didn't believe in the songs they crafted.  If they cannot get behind the new music they crafted, would the fans can get behind it?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on July 17, 2016, 05:31:44 PM
Not about that at all. Tim, tell me KISS isn't at their best when a producer pushes them. 

Steven Wilson or not, Bands need to be pushed.   I feel DT needs that.

Which KISS producer are you referring to? Ezrin? Destroyer, check! Revenge, check. Elder, Ok maybe, but the production blows.

How does DT need pushing? You have heard The Astonishing, right?  ;D

Knowing you'd respond, I was thinking about this over dinner. Look at DT's catalog. Within their catalog, their albums are as varied as you can get without being Rush, where Rush really changed from style to style. But Rush is the exception, obviously. What band 13 albums into their career has as many different types of albums?

Not everyone is going to like every album DT releases, but I'm not sure how anyone can say that have stayed stagnant.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 17, 2016, 05:44:28 PM
I like The Astonishing, but it's time to have a view from the outside.  Bands need to change it up in a long career and DT is ripe for an outside view.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on July 17, 2016, 05:56:25 PM
But what do you want them to change? Make a country album?

I mean, just look at their last three albums. They are all very different from each other.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 17, 2016, 05:59:44 PM
Portnoy should produce...

 :loser: :loser:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 17, 2016, 06:02:02 PM
I don't want them to change. I want them to have another influence.

You know bands need it once in a while.  Why not?  Why not push themselves with an outside voice?  It's worked with so many bands.

If it doesn't then go back to the comfortable.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on July 17, 2016, 06:02:54 PM
But who are "so many bands"?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 17, 2016, 06:05:32 PM
Tim, come on.  Don't play these games. The right producer is like the right coach. Sometimes a band needs a change like a team. 

It gives them a boost of energy.  I do not see why it's a bad thing? 

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on July 17, 2016, 06:07:15 PM
I think it is a bit much to say their albums are so different from one another.  At their core, every single DT album is a prog metal album.  Yeah, they do a good job of making every album not sound the same, but saying they are all very different from one another seems like a bit of an exaggeration, no?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on July 17, 2016, 06:08:04 PM
Tim, come on.  Don't play these games. The right producer is like the right coach. Sometimes a band needs a change like a team. 

It gives them a boost of energy.  I do not see why it's a bad thing?

I'm going to go ahead and agree with King. I have no idea why this is even being argued. Sure, some producers do bad jobs, but some bands' best albums are because they were being challenged or had to prove something.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 17, 2016, 06:10:22 PM
Maybe it doesn't work out, maybe it does but why not push yourself, test yourself, have great music sex  with someone else? :lol

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on July 17, 2016, 06:11:05 PM
Tim, come on.  Don't play these games. The right producer is like the right coach. Sometimes a band needs a change like a team. 

It gives them a boost of energy.  I do not see why it's a bad thing? 



Like I said, I'll give you Rush. And Alice Cooper.

I understand your overall point, but it's like you are saying that DT are becoming stagnant. I believe they are anything but, that's all.  :)

:brohug

I think it is a bit much to say their albums are so different from one another.  At their core, every single DT album is a prog metal album.  Yeah, they do a good job of making every album not sound the same, but saying they are all very different from one another seems like a bit of an exaggeration, no?

I don't think so. What band has such different albums in their catalog? Most bands fall into "_____" genre. I believe within DT's confines they have varied albums. Now if you want to blow open their confines, then fine. What style would you like them to play in? No one can tell me this.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 17, 2016, 06:14:50 PM
I'm not saying stagnant but the last 2 albums haven't blown me away.  I like them but sometimes, in a long career like DT, they get that push from a producer.

See the making of Snakes and Arrows from Rush.  It's a prime example of what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on July 17, 2016, 06:19:03 PM


I think it is a bit much to say their albums are so different from one another.  At their core, every single DT album is a prog metal album.  Yeah, they do a good job of making every album not sound the same, but saying they are all very different from one another seems like a bit of an exaggeration, no?

I don't think so. What band has such different albums in their catalog? Most bands fall into "_____" genre. I believe within DT's confines they have varied albums. Now if you want to blow open their confines, then fine. What style would you like them to play in? No one can tell me this.

I didn't say I want to see them play in another style; they do a fine job playing in the one they're in.  Just don't tell me that any of their albums don't fall into the prog metal genre.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on July 17, 2016, 06:35:13 PM

I didn't say I want to see them play in another style; they do a fine job playing in the one they're in.  Just don't tell me that any of their albums don't fall into the prog metal genre.

I'm definitely not trying to say that. But Kev, don't tell me every band doesn't have their core style. And my position is that within their core style, they have a pretty varied catalog.
What band does not have a core style?


See the making of Snakes and Arrows from Rush.  It's a prime example of what I'm talking about.
Snakes And Arrows blows. BUT, I'll give you this...it is easily their best sounding album since Moving Pictures.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 17, 2016, 06:35:56 PM
Check it out online. Seriously. You'll get it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on July 17, 2016, 06:36:48 PM
Check it out online. Seriously. You'll get it.

Check what out? S&A? I have it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on July 17, 2016, 06:41:11 PM
The making of the album online.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on July 17, 2016, 06:46:15 PM
The making of the album online.

Oh. OK. Maybe I will! :P
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on July 17, 2016, 09:14:48 PM
Reading the discussion on whether DT's albums are varied or not, I just started thinking how different Train Of Thought (the very first DT album I listened to) and The Astonishing are - in terms of mix, stylistic approach, songwriting, etc. - yet they come from the same band and producer (well, except for MP).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on July 17, 2016, 09:45:07 PM
or The Astonishing vs DT12.

I'm with TAC on this one as far as how varied the albums are go. Compared to other bands in DT's circle, they do a really good job changing it up. For as much worship he gets around here, I don't find Steven Wilson's albums (his main solo albums and PT stuff, mind you) all that varied.

I do think an outside collaborator would benefit them. But honestly that could've easily been in the form of a new member. When Rudess joined it totally changed the shape and sound of the band. With Mangini I think they consciously avoided going for someone who would act as a major creative voice (for hopefully obvious reasons) and I get that, but they could've been more bold with their choice there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: matthewmatt on July 20, 2016, 01:26:21 PM
Please, don’t crucify me, but…

Recently I have grown to like not only WDADU, but also The Astonishing as well. I have been listening to it a lot the past two weeks or so. However, it's still a tad overlong and ballad heavy and so on. Since my wife feels that much more than me (she was complaining it's overlong and too plodding etc), I've decided to do some cuts.

In the end I have decided to do a personal tracklists. Kind of a ... well, a "director's cut", so to speak. Two CDs/parts, some shuffling around (so the story is very non-linear, because I had to switch some songs even between the acts). In the end there are 22 songs and the length is 1 hour and 41 minutes. But the most important is the flow, which is now much better, I believe. I have repeatedly tried and deleted and tried and added until I was satisfied at last.

Part 1 / CD 1
1. Dystopian Overture
2. The Gift of Music
3. A Savior in the Square
4. When Your Time Has Come
5. Three Days
6. Act of Faythe
7. A Tempting Offer
8. The X Aspect
9. Heaven's Cove
10. A New Beginning
11. The Road to Revolution

Part 2 / CD 2
1. 2285 Entr'acte
2. Brother Can You Hear Me?
3. Ravenskill
4. Our New World
5. Chosen
6. Moment of Betrayal
7. The Walking Shadow
8. My Last Farewell
9. A Life Left Behind
10. Hymn of a Thousand Voices
11. The Astonishing

(At least my wife prefers it to the official version, so the hours put into it were not spent in vain  ;D )

I'm actually quite proud of this one - I am listening to it again and I really enjoy it more and more. Especially the second part/act, the sequence Ravenskill -> Our New World -> Chosen -> Moment of Betrayal -> The Walking Shadow is really cool, at least from the musical point of view.

Of course you're free to criticise and discuss it. I just want to stress I really like the album as a whole, but it's a lot to take in in one listen. This is more like a "short" version for those already initiated.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on July 27, 2016, 01:31:24 AM
YOU FIEND!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on July 27, 2016, 05:35:27 AM
You're missing the second best song yet kept all the bottom 5 songs in.  :eek
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on July 27, 2016, 08:51:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnBHNDb6haE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnBHNDb6haE)

Maybe I missed it somewhere in the thread, but they released the Moment of Betrayal projection. I didn't realize how many shots are reused in the projection in some of the songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ninjabait on July 27, 2016, 09:01:57 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a45GI-IPoaI

They've also dropped the tour visuals for The Road to Revolution last week too. I kinda wonder if they're gonna release one for each song on the album...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: matthewmatt on July 28, 2016, 01:02:54 PM
You're missing the second best song yet kept all the bottom 5 songs in.  :eek

My talets are limitless, you see...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on July 28, 2016, 04:24:33 PM
You're missing the second best song yet kept all the bottom 5 songs in.  :eek

My talets are limitless, you see...

Are you trying to say toilets?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: matthewmatt on July 28, 2016, 11:58:23 PM
Are you trying to say toilets?

Now that you mention it, that too! All my life I've been trying to fill up all the toilets I come across and I haven't been successful so far. The stuff just... disappears. Must be doing something wrong. :huh:


Anyway, that second tracklist is not all that good and I'll probably delete it. But I'm still quite satisfied with the first one and enjoy it a lot.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on July 29, 2016, 04:19:17 PM
https://teamrock.com/feature/2016-07-28/the-man-behind-dream-theater-concert-films (https://teamrock.com/feature/2016-07-28/the-man-behind-dream-theater-concert-films)

Interesting interview with Bernard at Lucion, the company behind the visuals. Interesting that they knew A New Beginning's visuals weren't up to par and worked on them later. I thought it was different on later legs. And now we know what happened to the holograms that the band had talked about earlier but never happened. That would have been really cool!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on July 29, 2016, 08:03:42 PM
And now we know what happened to the holograms that the band had talked about earlier but never happened. That would have been really cool!
Yeah, I was thinking about this. I was worried that at my show last month, there had been holograms and I hadn't payed attention.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on July 30, 2016, 09:43:53 PM
I think the band had good plans but they fell through. My god, this has to be the saddest promotion ever for a band. They, had big plans, the record company couldn't deliver. So I see why quite a few bands left roadrunner records.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 31, 2016, 07:11:55 AM
I think the band had good plans but they fell through. My god, this has to be the saddest promotion ever for a band. They, had big plans, the record company couldn't deliver. So I see why quite a few bands left roadrunner records.

I think this is too exagerated.
DT, as well as many people, consider this a success. The only issue I see is the preorder scandal, but other than that, I don't see how is it sad or bad.
The animating company didn't have too much time and two hours of animation is a very long shot, yet I think they did a good job and made it very enjoyable.
I guess people were expecting some sort of Pixar/Dreamworks animation to cover everything.

But please, TA sold well, don't go as far as to say it was a sad promotion because it wasn't.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on July 31, 2016, 07:37:51 AM
Great interview.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on July 31, 2016, 10:32:40 AM
I guess people were expecting some sort of Pixar/Dreamworks animation to cover everything.

But please, TA sold well, don't go as far as to say it was a sad promotion because it wasn't.
I suppose people were expecting much better, since it was the band/label/companies who announced cool things that eventually fell through or have been indefinitely postponed (the holograms, the deluxe packages, the videogame). I'm not complaining, since I didn't really think any of those things was really that important, but I do think it's reasonable for others to complain.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on July 31, 2016, 11:11:43 AM
I guess people were expecting some sort of Pixar/Dreamworks animation to cover everything.

But please, TA sold well, don't go as far as to say it was a sad promotion because it wasn't.
I suppose people were expecting much better, since it was the band/label/companies who announced cool things that eventually fell through or have been indefinitely postponed (the holograms, the deluxe packages, the videogame). I'm not complaining, since I didn't really think any of those things was really that important, but I do think it's reasonable for others to complain.


Blaming the label for things such as the animation and the videogame is absurd, as the bandmembers were the ones who approached them in the first place. As for the videogame, well, it's an autonomous company who has it delayed.

Now if the label had told them "Here, use these guys" we would be talking differently, but as far as the interviews prove, all the label did was greenlighting stuff.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on July 31, 2016, 02:22:29 PM
Blaming the label for things such as the animation and the videogame is absurd, as the bandmembers were the ones who approached them in the first place. As for the videogame, well, it's an autonomous company who has it delayed.

In general, a band of five people can hardly use lack of creative resources as an explanation. Not utilizing the other band members seems to have been a fully conscious decision.


I wasn't even aware of the whole hologram thing. Yeah, that probably would have done a huge job at tying the story into the performance.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jvelvet3 on July 31, 2016, 04:06:11 PM
Six months in, and I still can't stop listening to this album. I don't think I've ever enjoyed a new album almost exclusively for this long without getting burned out on it (I still haven't given the new Avantasia, which came out the same day, a full listen through). I think I can safely say TA will probably end up as my favorite DT release. It has so much variety, which is what I really like about DT (and music in general). I'm a sucker for ballads/power ballads, so I love Act of Faythe, Chosen, A Life Left Behind, Begin Again, Losing Faythe, and Hymn of a Thousand Voices. But when I want something heavier, I can go to A Tempting Offer, Moment of Betrayal, The Path That Divides, Walking Shadow, or to the craziness of Lord Nafaryus and Three Days. And of course there's The Gift of Music, A New Beginning, Our New World, A Better Life, Savior in the Square, and the beautiful Heaven's Cove. So much good stuff... I made a single CD version for my car, but had to leave out a lot of great songs that just wouldn't fit.

This album is unlike anything else in their catalog. I love the orchestration, the choirs, the piano, James Labrie, JP's guitar solos in A Better Life, Savior in the Square, When Your Time Has Come, A New Beginning, Chosen, etc, and MM's sometimes subtle drum work. There's so many great melodies from this album that are constantly stuck in my head. I think I'm addicted to it, and I may need help.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: AngelBack on July 31, 2016, 05:00:55 PM
Six months in, and I still can't stop listening to this album. I don't think I've ever enjoyed a new album almost exclusively for this long without getting burned out on it (I still haven't given the new Avantasia, which came out the same day, a full listen through). I think I can safely say TA will probably end up as my favorite DT release. It has so much variety, which is what I really like about DT (and music in general). I'm a sucker for ballads/power ballads, so I love Act of Faythe, Chosen, A Life Left Behind, Begin Again, Losing Faythe, and Hymn of a Thousand Voices. But when I want something heavier, I can go to A Tempting Offer, Moment of Betrayal, The Path That Divides, Walking Shadow, or to the craziness of Lord Nafaryus and Three Days. And of course there's The Gift of Music, A New Beginning, Our New World, A Better Life, Savior in the Square, and the beautiful Heaven's Cove. So much good stuff... I made a single CD version for my car, but had to leave out a lot of great songs that just wouldn't fit.

This album is unlike anything else in their catalog. I love the orchestration, the choirs, the piano, James Labrie, JP's guitar solos in A Better Life, Savior in the Square, When Your Time Has Come, A New Beginning, Chosen, etc, and MM's sometimes subtle drum work. There's so many great melodies from this album that are constantly stuck in my head. I think I'm addicted to it, and I may need help.  :lol

I'm with you JV.  TA may not end up being my all time fave DT album, but after all this time and untold numbers of play, I am still loving the album and have not hit the "ok I'll skip this song" phase yet.  Still fresh and no signs of fatigue of any of it. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on July 31, 2016, 05:39:56 PM
Blaming the label for things such as the animation and the videogame is absurd, as the bandmembers were the ones who approached them in the first place. As for the videogame, well, it's an autonomous company who has it delayed.

In general, a band of five people can hardly use lack of creative resources as an explanation. Not utilizing the other band members seems to have been a fully conscious decision.


It definitely was. JP confirmed that he approached the band and requested that the album be written exclusively by him and JR.

I think that idea was fine for a first draft, but maybe the other guys could've given input after.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on July 31, 2016, 06:46:28 PM
I think the band had good plans but they fell through. My god, this has to be the saddest promotion ever for a band. They, had big plans, the record company couldn't deliver. So I see why quite a few bands left roadrunner records.

I think this is too exagerated.
DT, as well as many people, consider this a success. The only issue I see is the preorder scandal, but other than that, I don't see how is it sad or bad.
The animating company didn't have too much time and two hours of animation is a very long shot, yet I think they did a good job and made it very enjoyable.
I guess people were expecting some sort of Pixar/Dreamworks animation to cover everything.

But please, TA sold well, don't go as far as to say it was a sad promotion because it wasn't.

I'm talking mainly about Roadrunner, and how unprofessional they are handling this. I think they bit off more then they could chew.

The CD, shows and animations are top notch I feel.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SebastianPratesi on July 31, 2016, 07:08:49 PM
Blaming the label for things such as the animation and the videogame is absurd, as the bandmembers were the ones who approached them in the first place. As for the videogame, well, it's an autonomous company who has it delayed.

Now if the label had told them "Here, use these guys" we would be talking differently, but as far as the interviews prove, all the label did was greenlighting stuff.
Hey, I agree that the label probably wasn't responsible for the animation and videogame. What (I understand) they are responsible for is the delay on the deluxe packages.

In short, this is what I was thinking:
- Delay in deluxe packages: label.
- Delay in videogame: the videogame company (who advertised 'April' & 'Q2' as release dates).
- Lack of holograms: well, I didn't read any press release by the animation company, but the band talked about holograms in some interviews before the European leg.

But yeah, maybe they (label, companies, and band) thought that they would be able to achieve what they set for or promised, but ran out of enough time. (Kind of what happened to the Nafaryus intro and the "A New Beginning" solo in the album. :P)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on August 01, 2016, 10:33:36 AM
Well, when you're trying to pull off such an enormous project like this, something's just bound to go wrong. Taking all the different complicated factors that went into all of this, I'm impressed Dream Theater's gone this far with all of it. People forget how much work was involved in every little detail and aspect of The Astonishing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on August 01, 2016, 07:43:16 PM
Well, when you're trying to pull off such an enormous project like this, something's just bound to go wrong. Taking all the different complicated factors that went into all of this, I'm impressed Dream Theater's gone this far with all of it. People forget how much work was involved in every little detail and aspect of The Astonishing.

 :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on August 02, 2016, 08:39:16 AM
Well, when you're trying to pull off such an enormous project like this, something's just bound to go wrong. Taking all the different complicated factors that went into all of this, I'm impressed Dream Theater's gone this far with all of it. People forget how much work was involved in every little detail and aspect of The Astonishing.
Agreed. It's way easier to pick on the things that one doesn't like, but enjoy it or not the enormous effort has to be recognised nevertheless.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 02, 2016, 11:04:28 AM
Well, when you're trying to pull off such an enormous project like this, something's just bound to go wrong. Taking all the different complicated factors that went into all of this, I'm impressed Dream Theater's gone this far with all of it. People forget how much work was involved in every little detail and aspect of The Astonishing.
Agreed. It's way easier to pick on the things that one doesn't like, but enjoy it or not the enormous effort has to be recognised nevertheless.
Indeed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on August 02, 2016, 11:08:03 AM
I do wonder if DT's tour in Europe immediately after the album release was a bit too aggressive timeline wise.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on August 02, 2016, 11:20:35 AM
Well, when you're trying to pull off such an enormous project like this, something's just bound to go wrong. Taking all the different complicated factors that went into all of this, I'm impressed Dream Theater's gone this far with all of it. People forget how much work was involved in every little detail and aspect of The Astonishing.
Agreed. It's way easier to pick on the things that one doesn't like, but enjoy it or not the enormous effort has to be recognised nevertheless.

Well said. Unfortunately, most people seem too comfortable picking on every last detail instead of enjoying something for what it is. I'm the snob here, yet it seems like others are infinitely more imperious about the music. There's a difference between not liking something and nitpicking on the most trivial details.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on August 02, 2016, 11:23:05 AM
THAT MASTERING ERROR AT THE END OF A TEMPTING OFFER COMPLETELY RUINS THE ALBUM EXPERIENCE FOR ME.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on August 02, 2016, 11:56:38 AM
THAT MASTERING ERROR AT THE END OF A TEMPTING OFFER COMPLETELY RUINS THE ALBUM EXPERIENCE FOR ME.

your caps ruins the forum experience for me :neverusethis:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on August 02, 2016, 07:33:54 PM
THAT MASTERING ERROR AT THE END OF A TEMPTING OFFER COMPLETELY RUINS THE ALBUM EXPERIENCE FOR ME.

THAT HORRIBLE LOOPING CRICKET SOUND AT THE START OF THE PATH THAT DIVIDES COMPLETELY RUINS THE ALBUM EXPERIENCE FOR ME.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on August 03, 2016, 05:24:27 AM
THAT MASTERING ERROR AT THE END OF A TEMPTING OFFER COMPLETELY RUINS THE ALBUM EXPERIENCE FOR ME.

THAT HORRIBLE LOOPING CRICKET SOUND AT THE START OF THE PATH THAT DIVIDES COMPLETELY RUINS THE ALBUM EXPERIENCE FOR ME.

Now you're getting it. Personally, I just can't listen to it anymore because I don't like the shade of blue they made the sky on the cover.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on August 03, 2016, 07:24:18 AM
Hugh Syme would have done a better job at it, I can only imagine the top notch quality cover of TA by HS.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on August 03, 2016, 12:18:35 PM
I'm saying I love this album.

If I were to rank it. It'd be 2ND right now.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on August 03, 2016, 04:46:41 PM
Hugh Syme would have done a better job at it, I can only imagine the top notch quality cover of TA by HS.






(https://i.imgur.com/KJVP5aa.jpg)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on August 03, 2016, 04:49:49 PM
 :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on August 03, 2016, 06:13:06 PM
:clap:  Flawless victory.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on August 03, 2016, 06:32:51 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Evermind on August 03, 2016, 10:47:47 PM
:rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2016, 04:23:37 AM
:D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on August 04, 2016, 05:13:57 AM
 :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on August 04, 2016, 06:47:00 AM
 :lol Well done
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: devieira73 on August 04, 2016, 06:48:11 AM
Top 2 joke here!  :biggrin:
IMO top 1 was: What's Nafaryus first name? Neil...  :hefdaddy :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2016, 07:17:18 AM
Top 2 joke here!  :biggrin:
IMO top 1 was: What's Nafaryus first name? Neil...  :hefdaddy :rollin

Also one of mine. :hat
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: devieira73 on August 04, 2016, 07:42:31 AM
I didn’t remember that, so, you should be very proud of it! :tup
As expected, anybody who has a Star Trek avatar has to be a funny and cool guy! :coolio
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2016, 11:18:43 AM
I didn’t remember that, so, you should be very proud of it! :tup
As expected, anybody who has a Star Trek avatar has to be a funny and cool guy! :coolio

Agree :zydar:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on August 04, 2016, 11:47:31 AM
Top 2 joke here!  :biggrin:
IMO top 1 was: What's Nafaryus first name? Neil...  :hefdaddy :rollin

Damn that joke, now I can't forget about it whenever I hear that song, it ruined it for me  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on August 04, 2016, 11:49:24 AM
Proof that DT sees Neal (Disguised as Neil) Morse as the terrible bad guy who took Portnoy away.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2016, 12:10:50 PM
Proof that DT sees Neal (Disguised as Neil) Morse as the terrible bad guy who took Portnoy away.

Is there any Morse code on that song ?


ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED

∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on August 04, 2016, 12:22:17 PM
Proof that DT sees Neal (Disguised as Neil) Morse as the terrible bad guy who took Portnoy away.

Is there any Morse code on that song ?


ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED

∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆

ILLUMINATION THEORY

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2016, 12:23:34 PM
 :omg: :omg: :omg:

OH FUCK
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheAtliator on August 04, 2016, 04:00:54 PM
I guess I owe it to the thread since my last (somewhat negative) comments, to at least pop back in and say the album has grown tremendously on me over the past several months of listening to it. While I still feel the exact same about the problems I've felt it had since the first time I heard it, the great things about the album have just gotten BETTER and BETTER. I think the good aspects of this album represent some of Dream Theater's absolute BEST WORK EVER.

And the live show was among the BEST concert experiences of my life, I'll never forget it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on August 07, 2016, 12:19:49 PM
I'm glad JP decided to do this concept about Machines/Robots being the only thing creating music. Because it gets more true each day. I just read about a robot that can song on its own.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on August 07, 2016, 01:03:21 PM
I'm glad JP decided to do this concept about Machines/Robots being the only thing creating music. Because it gets more true each day. I just read about a robot that can song on its own.


Star Trek predicted it.

The world's first sentient robot will be built by Dr. Noonien Song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on August 09, 2016, 02:57:27 PM
Two new Tour Visual Videos on YouTube.

The Walking Shadow / My Last Farewell.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JRuless on September 14, 2016, 01:19:58 PM
https://theloftyoaks.com/2016/09/08/the-astonishing-review/ (https://theloftyoaks.com/2016/09/08/the-astonishing-review/)

+1
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 14, 2016, 01:22:50 PM
Such a fanboy review.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on September 14, 2016, 02:23:20 PM
Yeah, I love the album but that was only a review by a very loose definition. Just praising without any real discussion.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on September 14, 2016, 04:12:17 PM
Quote
As an example the reoccurring melody that opens and closes “Our New World” and “Savior in the Square” is pure musical bliss that I guarantee to you Beethoven, Bach and Brahms would be kicking themselves in the ass for not writing.
(https://orig11.deviantart.net/39df/f/2013/127/4/0/spongebob_excited_by_allkawaii-d64i21r.jpg)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on September 24, 2016, 12:35:12 PM
Nice to laugh at some of the stuff in the last 2 pages of this thread. :clap: (Especially Kotow for Neil Nafaryus.  :tup)

Listening to the album for the first time in a little while, and it's still absolutely amazing; lost none of its goosebumps impact at all.

Something else too: The guitar in Chosen makes me chuckle, at "With you by my side *WAAAH* we will open his eyes"  :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on September 24, 2016, 12:45:02 PM
Nice to laugh at some of the stuff in the last 2 pages of this thread. :clap: (Especially Kotow for Neil Nafaryus.  :tup)


:hug:  :laugh: :-* :-*
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on September 25, 2016, 03:34:24 AM
Myung is prominent.

Just listen for the groove
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on September 26, 2016, 10:57:58 AM
Speaking of Myung, I cranked up The Gift of music yesterday and realized how tremendous the bass lines all the way through are. Whoever thinks Myung doesn't stand out on the album isn't paying attention. Just turn up the bass and enjoy, it's magnificent how JM knows how to find his space within the other more dominant instruments and adjust his bass lines to both stand out and melt into the instrumentation. He's incredible.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on September 26, 2016, 11:19:56 AM
The Astonishing was pretty well mixed in that regard. I can hear Myung clearly throughout, which isn't always the case with DT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on September 30, 2016, 01:43:07 PM
The Astonishing is a really good sounding album in general, I think.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on September 30, 2016, 03:49:05 PM
Speaking of Myung, I cranked up The Gift of music yesterday and realized how tremendous the bass lines all the way through are. Whoever thinks Myung doesn't stand out on the album isn't paying attention. Just turn up the bass and enjoy, it's magnificent how JM knows how to find his space within the other more dominant instruments and adjust his bass lines to both stand out and melt into the instrumentation. He's incredible.

Yes...

The Astonishing is a really good sounding album in general, I think.

...and yes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on September 30, 2016, 04:37:43 PM
Speaking of Myung, I cranked up The Gift of music yesterday and realized how tremendous the bass lines all the way through are. Whoever thinks Myung doesn't stand out on the album isn't paying attention. Just turn up the bass and enjoy, it's magnificent how JM knows how to find his space within the other more dominant instruments and adjust his bass lines to both stand out and melt into the instrumentation. He's incredible.

Yep. He's great throughout the album. Favorites are A Life Left Behind, The Gift of Music, The Walking Shadow/My Last Farewell, Moment of Betrayal, Three Days, Our New World and Savior in the Square/When Your Time Has Come. That's why I just laughed when The Astonishing was eliminated very early in the Survivor thread for Bass playing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jakepriest on September 30, 2016, 04:50:03 PM
That's why I just laughed when The Astonishing was eliminated very early in the Survivor thread for Bass playing.

But nonsense survival results are classic DTF.  :justjen
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: LTE3 on October 03, 2016, 02:17:10 PM
Not a fan of the Astonishing at all, have tried and tried. Like maybe three, four songs tops, and none would make my top 30. I went to the Radio City show, sadly for me it was the worst DT show I have been since I first started seeing them in 1997. This second leg I have no interest in seeing at all. It will be the first time I have ever not gone to see them when I had the chance.If my DT intuition is correct I am sure the next album will be billed as their heaviest ever in my guesstimation, but I don't even like the sound of the new production. ADToE sounded good to me and I do like most of those songs but hated these last two. So over produced and almost industrial especially the drum sound.
Any way it is sad and pathetic the amount of tickets sold so far for this leg, they should cancel this tour or quickly make the call to change the setlist. It will be embarrassing at some of these shows, unless there are some miraculous last minute ticking buying binges. I don't see it happening.

I hate being disappointed in my favorite band for that last 25 years ( discovered during release of Awake) but I guess life goes on. Haken, Between the Buried and Me, Symphony X, and yes Opeth are IMHO putting out better stuff these day.

 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 03, 2016, 04:06:07 PM
I still find it amazing. I enjoy the storyline.

I just wish I could see them live one more time.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on October 03, 2016, 07:39:31 PM
Not a fan of the Astonishing at all, have tried and tried. Like maybe three, four songs tops, and none would make my top 30. I went to the Radio City show, sadly for me it was the worst DT show I have been since I first started seeing them in 1998. This second leg I have no interest in seeing at all. It will be the first time I have ever not gone to see them when I had the chance.If my DT intuition is correct I am sure the next album will be billed as their heaviest ever in my guesstimation, but I don't even like the sound of the new production. ADToE sounded good to me and I do like most of those songs but hated these last two. So over produced and almost industrial especially the drum sound.
Any way it is sad and pathetic the amount of tickets sold so far for this leg, they should cancel this tour or quickly make the call to change the setlist. It will be embarrassing at some of these shows, unless there are some miraculous last minute ticking buying binges. I don't see it happening.



I hate being disappointed in my favorite band for that last 25 years ( discovered during release of Awake) but I guess life goes on. Haken, Between the Buried and Me, Symphony X, and yes Opeth are IMHO putting out better stuff these day.

Egualmente. At least you tried by going to the show. But me, after a couple of months listening to the album, I was not psyched up for that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on October 03, 2016, 11:20:13 PM
At least you tried by going to the show. But me, after a couple of months listening to the album, I was not psyched up for that.

I have mixed feelings about this approach.  I mean, on one hand, if you are a fan of the band, I feel like you maybe shouldn't write off the possibility that seeing the songs live will make the come alive for you, and you will connect with them in a way that you connect with other songs from them.  But on the other hand, you know yourself, and if you just don't care for the album, it is kind of pointless to go to a show where the entire show is going to be that album.  So I can see both sides, I guess.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on October 04, 2016, 11:29:32 AM
This album has not lost any steam for me. I'll take a break from it for a while, but when I return to it, it just keeps getting better. I think it's by far their most melodic album, and they have never been short on good melodies on all their albums.
 I really hope they do something special as far as making a dvd production from this tour.  It would be a crime not to!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Chino on October 04, 2016, 11:55:51 AM
This album has not lost any steam for me. I'll take a break from it for a while, but when I return to it, it just keeps getting better. I think it's by far their most melodic album, and they have never been short on good melodies on all their albums.
 I really hope they do something special as far as making a dvd production from this tour.  It would be a crime not to!

This. I'll proudly say that this album has topped I&W as my favorite album and I can't wait to see it played live for the third time. I play it almost daily.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on October 04, 2016, 01:26:59 PM
Haken, Between the Buried and Me, Symphony X, and yes Opeth are IMHO putting out better stuff these day.

Haken's Affinity really hit the spot that DT was missing this year in terms of progressive metal for me.  Granted I really like TA.  My only hold back on not seeing this tour is the presentation (not the music).  I LOVE concerts, but one of the main reasons why is because I love the experience of the concert.  Singing, moving, taking pictures, talking to other fans.... there is none of that in these shows and it just makes me feel more like I'm seeing a Broadway show and I've already seen the show so I keep contemplating the value of seeing it again.

The RCMH show was a lot of fun, but the Newark NJ show looks like a wasteland on a weeknight.  I've seen DT a couple times before at less than half filled venues and those concerts were not that fun overall compared to other DT shows.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on October 04, 2016, 03:21:24 PM
This album has not lost any steam for me. I'll take a break from it for a while, but when I return to it, it just keeps getting better. I think it's by far their most melodic album, and they have never been short on good melodies on all their albums.
 I really hope they do something special as far as making a dvd production from this tour.  It would be a crime not to!

This. I'll proudly say that this album has topped I&W as my favorite album and I can't wait to see it played live for the third time. I play it almost daily.

Nice to see others who think so highly of the album. I love it to death and play it often. :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on October 04, 2016, 05:05:27 PM
This album has not lost any steam for me. I'll take a break from it for a while, but when I return to it, it just keeps getting better. I think it's by far their most melodic album, and they have never been short on good melodies on all their albums.
 I really hope they do something special as far as making a dvd production from this tour.  It would be a crime not to!

This. I'll proudly say that this album has topped I&W as my favorite album and I can't wait to see it played live for the third time. I play it almost daily.

Nice to see others who think so highly of the album. I love it to death and play it often. :metal

Definitely in my top 5 DT albums. I still play it a lot as well!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Evai on October 04, 2016, 07:10:32 PM
I have come up with the perfect alternate ending to The Astonishing: After Whispers On The Wind, play Disappear  :) rip faythe
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: skipreid on October 05, 2016, 01:34:57 PM
Sorry I still can't get into this album. I just don't like it at all. I gave up around March and said I would try again later. I did that in September, but it's just not for me.
It's awesome that so many of you think it's great. I am glad you have something you like listening to. For me, it's been a 2 year DT void now. I will get excited when they hit the studio again. At least there is lots of DT material to go back and listen to though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Enigmachine on October 05, 2016, 05:11:03 PM
Sorry I still can't get into this album. I just don't like it at all. I gave up around March and said I would try again later. I did that in September, but it's just not for me.
It's awesome that so many of you think it's great. I am glad you have something you like listening to. For me, it's been a 2 year DT void now. I will get excited when they hit the studio again. At least there is lots of DT material to go back and listen to though.

Even though the album was a huge grower for me, I'd advise you to not try to force yourself to like it. DT have a great and regular schedule for releasing albums so that even when one doesn't hit, chances are that the next one will hit if past efforts have been successful. If one day you find yourself thinking "hmm, I think I'll listen to TA" with genuine interest then great, but if not there is a load of DT to listen to already like you said.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on October 05, 2016, 05:53:12 PM
Sorry I still can't get into this album. I just don't like it at all. I gave up around March and said I would try again later. I did that in September, but it's just not for me.
It's awesome that so many of you think it's great. I am glad you have something you like listening to. For me, it's been a 2 year DT void now. I will get excited when they hit the studio again. At least there is lots of DT material to go back and listen to though.

I'm curious - for those who don't like TA as a whole, surely there are SOME songs you like. Our New World for instance seems to me a song that should have massive appeal, along with A New Beginning and many others.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on October 05, 2016, 07:09:32 PM
I'm in the same boat as LTE3. I actually saw DT for this album when they played in Boston, in the hope that maybe live the album would connect better. And of course, a certain amount of "I have seen them for every album since Awake, can't break the streak".

The show was really lifeless, IMHO. They're now coming back to Worcester, MA next week, but I have no desire to go as it will be the same performance down to the millisecond. Back in the day, under MP, you could have the hope of a unique rendition of the songs. These days it's all so mechanized, you've seen one rendition you've seen them all.

I also just looked, for the Worcester venue there's a massive amount of seats left. It looks like they will play in front of a half-empty venue.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on October 05, 2016, 07:43:00 PM
I'm with Rumborak.  I could see them in Concord  but I've seen it all ready.  I don't want to see the same show.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on October 05, 2016, 07:57:56 PM
DT also needs to get their pricing under control. I saw Opeth for $35 last weekend, whereas DT's cheapest seats these days are $60 and more.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on October 05, 2016, 09:13:45 PM
DT also needs to get their pricing under control. I saw Opeth for $35 last weekend, whereas DT's cheapest seats these days are $60 and more.
I got DT tickets at the box office in Seattle for $39.00 each back in May. Middle balcony. Great show and I would see it again. It wasn't sold out, the upper teir of the balcony was empty. It was a Tuesday night however, then again concept albums aren't as well received as they were in the seventies, which is too bad.. The crowd that night was enthusiastic though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Chino on October 06, 2016, 05:48:36 AM
Sorry I still can't get into this album. I just don't like it at all. I gave up around March and said I would try again later. I did that in September, but it's just not for me.
It's awesome that so many of you think it's great. I am glad you have something you like listening to. For me, it's been a 2 year DT void now. I will get excited when they hit the studio again. At least there is lots of DT material to go back and listen to though.

I'm curious - for those who don't like TA as a whole, surely there are SOME songs you like. Our New World for instance seems to me a song that should have massive appeal, along with A New Beginning and many others.

This is my favorite DT album to date and ONW is one of my least favorite tracks  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on October 06, 2016, 06:46:36 AM
DT also needs to get their pricing under control. I saw Opeth for $35 last weekend, whereas DT's cheapest seats these days are $60 and more.

Dream Theater shows seem to be more on the expensive side, and they also seem to be at venues that are larger than the band can really fill. There's probably a good financial reason to do it that way, but I've often wondered if the band members wouldn't prefer playing at smaller places that are guaranteed to be sold out each night, even if it means maybe making a little less in the aggregate.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on October 06, 2016, 10:05:52 PM
Sorry I still can't get into this album. I just don't like it at all. I gave up around March and said I would try again later. I did that in September, but it's just not for me.
It's awesome that so many of you think it's great. I am glad you have something you like listening to. For me, it's been a 2 year DT void now. I will get excited when they hit the studio again. At least there is lots of DT material to go back and listen to though.

I'm curious - for those who don't like TA as a whole, surely there are SOME songs you like. Our New World for instance seems to me a song that should have massive appeal, along with A New Beginning and many others.

You're right. There are songs I like and Our new world is one of them. About 5 songs over all I like. The album is very melodic but the energy in it is something different I don't like. I still listen to it on YouTube (the only DT album I don't have and very likely not going to buy ever) but my opinion is about the same.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on October 06, 2016, 10:17:08 PM
DT also needs to get their pricing under control. I saw Opeth for $35 last weekend, whereas DT's cheapest seats these days are $60 and more.
I got DT tickets at the box office in Seattle for $39.00 each back in May. Middle balcony. Great show and I would see it again. It wasn't sold out, the upper teir of the balcony was empty. It was a Tuesday night however, then again concept albums aren't as well received as they were in the seventies, which is too bad.. The crowd that night was enthusiastic though.

Concept albums are well received when they are very good. One problem here is that this album is the show. It's not like going to a show when you don't necessaraly like a lot the new concept album but you say, let's go. We will have the classics and let's give it a try to the strange new thing ;)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on October 07, 2016, 10:48:51 AM
Am I the only person who has no intention of ever seeing a Dream theater concert ?

I'm not the biggest fan of live gigs. Once in a blue moon. But with DT playing to a click and triggering stuff - you're pretty much gonna get the CD but super loud.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 07, 2016, 10:56:20 AM
Am I the only person who has no intention of ever seeing a Dream theater concert ?

I'm not the biggest fan of live gigs. Once in a blue moon. But with DT playing to a click and triggering stuff - you're pretty much gonna get the CD but super loud.

Wait you've never seen DT live?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on October 07, 2016, 11:35:31 AM
Am I the only person who has no intention of ever seeing a Dream theater concert ?

I'm not the biggest fan of live gigs. Once in a blue moon. But with DT playing to a click and triggering stuff - you're pretty much gonna get the CD but super loud.

 ???
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Chino on October 07, 2016, 11:50:04 AM
Am I the only person who has no intention of ever seeing a Dream theater concert ?

I'm not the biggest fan of live gigs. Once in a blue moon. But with DT playing to a click and triggering stuff - you're pretty much gonna get the CD but super loud.

The fuck?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on October 07, 2016, 12:15:25 PM
No i've never seen DT live.

I'm not big on going to gigs as it is.

And from what I hear - they just sort of stand there and play to a click. That would be boring to me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on October 07, 2016, 12:22:31 PM
Am I the only person who has no intention of ever seeing a Dream theater concert ?

I'm not the biggest fan of live gigs. Once in a blue moon. But with DT playing to a click and triggering stuff - you're pretty much gonna get the CD but super loud.

I know that bands are often playing to a click nowadays. The son of an old friend is making a good living since graduating in music, playing drums for artists on tour. He plays always with a click, I could not believe it. I mean, the drummer used to be the leader and I can believe they do that even for a 3 chord rock song.

I'm surprise if bands play with a click through a whole show. If Rush was doing that, I would be disapointed. Why doing it now when you were able to play that complicated music with just your talent, instinct and abilities.

I have a hard time thinking that for someone like you who has a lot of opinions about DT, you never saw them live, it's a first for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on October 07, 2016, 12:26:23 PM
I'll stick with the live DVDs.

:D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CDrice on October 07, 2016, 12:26:40 PM
No i've never seen DT live.

I'm not big on going to gigs as it is.

That makes two of us. The only big show I ever went to was Green Day back in 2005. It was great, but it's not really my thing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on October 07, 2016, 12:28:38 PM
Green day for me too probably and I definitely prefer a spontaneous band like that over a band that basically plays the CD live.

I saw them in 2009 and they played for 2 hours and 40 minutes and after that I was ready to go home.

Standing in one place gets old after 5 hours.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 07, 2016, 12:30:21 PM
I know that bands are often playing to a click nowadays. The son of an old friend is making a good living since graduating in music, playing drums for artists on tour. He plays always with a click, I could not believe it. I mean, the drummer used to be the leader and I can believe they do that even for a 3 chord rock song.

I would be surprised if a hired gun, touring drummer would not be told he was going to be playing to click in that situation. Usually, artists that hire touring musicians like that have a musical director that literally would hand the drummer all the click tracks pre-programmed for the show in rehearsals. That's the norm nowadays. I have several friends that have gotten gigs as touring musicians and that's pretty much been there experience every time. As a side note though, I'd bet you that 90% of the audience either (1) doesn't even know what a click track is or (2) can't tell or doesn't notice during the show that the band is using one.

Click tracks aside though, Kotow you should go to a DT show. Do it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on October 07, 2016, 01:42:45 PM
And from what I hear - they just sort of stand there and play to a click. That would be boring to me.

I'll stick with the live DVDs.

So you know what to expect at a concert if you've seen the DVDs.  To each their own.  I found the DT12 tour to be an amazing live concert experience.  Even with the same setlist and click track I saw that show three times.  I'm not crazy about the fact they kind of just stand there, but they are also playing such complicated music that running around isn't really possible.  Green Day vs. Dream Theater is quite a difference of live experiences if you ask me, so I get what you are saying.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 07, 2016, 01:54:35 PM
I know that bands are often playing to a click nowadays. The son of an old friend is making a good living since graduating in music, playing drums for artists on tour. He plays always with a click, I could not believe it. I mean, the drummer used to be the leader and I can believe they do that even for a 3 chord rock song.

I would be surprised if a hired gun, touring drummer would not be told he was going to be playing to click in that situation. Usually, artists that hire touring musicians like that have a musical director that literally would hand the drummer all the click tracks pre-programmed for the show in rehearsals. That's the norm nowadays. I have several friends that have gotten gigs as touring musicians and that's pretty much been there experience every time. As a side note though, I'd bet you that 90% of the audience either (1) doesn't even know what a click track is or (2) can't tell or doesn't notice during the show that the band is using one.

Click tracks aside though, Kotow you should go to a DT show. Do it.

I doubt many people realize how many bands do use a click track, especially if they're more well known. You've got lighting that is usually the same each night to be timed at certain spots, like a spotlight. And if you've got videos, their is synchronicity issues that can arise. Dream Theater are lucky to get an engineer that is basically playing live as well, especially with them changing setlists every stop.

I have no problem with them playing to a click as certain songs required it when MP would ruin it by the tempo.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Evai on October 07, 2016, 03:03:00 PM
I'm not crazy about the fact they kind of just stand there, but they are also playing such complicated music that running around isn't really possible

Well, they could, but they don't feel that need anymore
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on October 07, 2016, 04:04:57 PM
No i've never seen DT live.

I'm not big on going to gigs as it is.

And from what I hear - they just sort of stand there and play to a click. That would be boring to me.
All opinions are valid, but it's kinda weird that you assume it's gonna be boring without having experienced it beforehand. A live concert, regardless of its format, is an experience filled with emotion and excitement. Why do you think electronic music concerts are so popular? Even though there's not really a 'musical performance' going on per se, there's something magical in watching the artist doing his/her thing on a stage. It's ok if you're not big on gigs, but it's just kinda weird given you're a musician lol.

Also, speaking of The Astonishing, I think you're missing on quite something big because this album was meant for live performance. After seeing this show twice, I can't really go back to listening to the album as much as I used to because the live concert was the best way ever to experience this album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on October 07, 2016, 06:56:58 PM
I'm not crazy about the fact they kind of just stand there, but they are also playing such complicated music that running around isn't really possible

Well, they could, but they don't feel that need anymore

Anymore? Sure they rocked out on stage much more in their younger years, but DT has never been known as a band that really moves much on stage.  It's never been a hinder to the concerts I went to.  Even seeing TA I didn't think the band's on stage movement factored into my enjoyment of the show.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on October 07, 2016, 08:41:40 PM
I know that bands are often playing to a click nowadays. The son of an old friend is making a good living since graduating in music, playing drums for artists on tour. He plays always with a click, I could not believe it. I mean, the drummer used to be the leader and I can believe they do that even for a 3 chord rock song.

I would be surprised if a hired gun, touring drummer would not be told he was going to be playing to click in that situation. Usually, artists that hire touring musicians like that have a musical director that literally would hand the drummer all the click tracks pre-programmed for the show in rehearsals. That's the norm nowadays. I have several friends that have gotten gigs as touring musicians and that's pretty much been there experience every time. As a side note though, I'd bet you that 90% of the audience either (1) doesn't even know what a click track is or (2) can't tell or doesn't notice during the show that the band is using one.

Click tracks aside though, Kotow you should go to a DT show. Do it.

I think he knows when he is playing to a clicked track. I saw this kid a few times. I never noticed the click but he puts some performances on his Facebook page and sometimes we hear the click when the recording comes from his earplugs. That's how I found it and told him I was very surprised to say the least.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on October 07, 2016, 10:28:54 PM
Green day for me too probably and I definitely prefer a spontaneous band like that over a band that basically plays the CD live.

I saw them in 2009 and they played for 2 hours and 40 minutes and after that I was ready to go home.

Standing in one place gets old after 5 hours.
Neither here nor there, but I remember an interview with Tre and he was talking about how they don't play with a click track live because he feels that it ruins the experience and that it doesn't feel natural
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Implode on October 08, 2016, 09:07:23 AM
I also just looked, for the Worcester venue there's a massive amount of seats left. It looks like they will play in front of a half-empty venue.

So they've been advertising their Astonishing live like crazy with so many Facebook posts and YouTube videos. Are they scrambling to fill seats? Are their shows not doing well?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on October 08, 2016, 09:15:46 AM
I think the first leg did reasonably well, but the second one, I mean, seriously, what's the point of going if you saw the first one. The show isn't really that visually exciting, it's just them playing in front of screens that show semi-related imagery, most of it not even particularly good.
And to tie into the ongoing discussion, it's not as if DT as a band is allll that engaging. James isn't a classic front man, and JM has a 1-meter circle he doesn't move away from.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on October 08, 2016, 09:17:48 AM
Part of the allure of seeing DT in the old days was that every set list was different.   Now, it's the same show and once is enough.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on October 08, 2016, 09:20:15 AM
Yeah, seriously. I can totally see it having been a major pain in the butt for DT to have all these songs in possible rotation, but in the old days you knew that seeing DT twice for the same tour meant seeing some new songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on October 08, 2016, 09:22:14 AM
Right.  That's why I skipped the Concord NH show.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Implode on October 08, 2016, 10:11:24 AM
I knew it was supposed to be a real theater atmosphere, but I couldn't help but feel a bit uncomfortable watch a metal rock show while sitting and the few people around me (among many empty seats) just sating there with blank looks on their faces. It felt so impersonal. I definitely wouldn't want to go through that again unless I felt like I could support the band more than just...sitting there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on October 08, 2016, 10:15:46 AM
Green day for me too probably and I definitely prefer a spontaneous band like that over a band that basically plays the CD live.

I saw them in 2009 and they played for 2 hours and 40 minutes and after that I was ready to go home.

Standing in one place gets old after 5 hours.
Neither here nor there, but I remember an interview with Tre and he was talking about how they don't play with a click track live because he feels that it ruins the experience and that it doesn't feel natural

I could never play to a click. That's not what playing live is to me and it would feel like an exam and not a gig.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DragonAttack on October 08, 2016, 10:20:24 AM
At the Baltimore show last spring, I met a couple and their kids from Florida, saw NC and PA and Va and TN license plates in the parking garage.....it was the closest/most convenient day for many to attend.  Most are not going to see TA again.  We did enjoy the first experience, to sit and watch and listen and enjoy, but not again.

On the heels of an album/tour that has had lukewarm responses, the band toured again, and often in oversaturated areas.  The band did not ask, but......a 60 minute 'best of' TA, followed by 75-90 minutes of 9-12 tracks from a rotating list of 15-18 songs would have worked out so much better.  I would have gone to a weeknight show in PA, and my wife would have joined me for tonight's gig, if something along these lines had been offered.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on October 08, 2016, 05:37:25 PM
I don't get the not wanting to see the same show/set list twice.  I saw them twice on the Metropolis 2000 tour in the spring of '00, both of which had the exact same set lists, and the second time was even more amazing than the first. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on October 08, 2016, 06:02:28 PM
Kev, we're saying nobody wants to eat at McDonald's twice in a row, whereas you're saying you've eaten two five-star dinners in a row. Those two statements aren't mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on October 08, 2016, 06:19:43 PM
Kev, we're saying nobody wants to eat at McDonald's twice in a row, whereas you're saying you've eaten two five-star dinners in a row. Those two statements aren't mutually exclusive.

Rumbo I love you buddy, but I'm pretty sure comparing The Astonishing to McDonalds won't get you a ton of support here.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on October 08, 2016, 06:30:24 PM
Well, the analogy was obviously a bit exaggerated. But, the point is that *obviously* very few people will have a problem watching a rendition of the top 1 album of a band twice. TA live is far less exciting, and so maybe it shouldn't be too surprising when people say "it's only gotten more mechanical over the years, so I would see an exact duplicate of a show that already wasn't too exciting".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on October 08, 2016, 09:16:22 PM
Green day for me too probably and I definitely prefer a spontaneous band like that over a band that basically plays the CD live.

I saw them in 2009 and they played for 2 hours and 40 minutes and after that I was ready to go home.

Standing in one place gets old after 5 hours.
Neither here nor there, but I remember an interview with Tre and he was talking about how they don't play with a click track live because he feels that it ruins the experience and that it doesn't feel natural

I could never play to a click. That's not what playing live is to me and it would feel like an exam and not a gig.

An exam and kind of cheating at it. But I understand that for that act there are some music pre recorded and to mix the whole thing together is easier with a click. I'm not a big fan of that for any kind of live shows though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on October 08, 2016, 09:23:31 PM
At the Baltimore show last spring, I met a couple and their kids from Florida, saw NC and PA and Va and TN license plates in the parking garage.....it was the closest/most convenient day for many to attend.  Most are not going to see TA again.  We did enjoy the first experience, to sit and watch and listen and enjoy, but not again.

On the heels of an album/tour that has had lukewarm responses, the band toured again, and often in oversaturated areas.  The band did not ask, but......a 60 minute 'best of' TA, followed by 75-90 minutes of 9-12 tracks from a rotating list of 15-18 songs would have worked out so much better.  I would have gone to a weeknight show in PA, and my wife would have joined me for tonight's gig, if something along these lines had been offered.

That would have pleased me and I would have definitely go. If the show would be really good, they would have no problems selling it. I used to go to all Rush shows, in their best years up to 3 shows in a row in Montreal.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on October 08, 2016, 10:23:20 PM
Green day for me too probably and I definitely prefer a spontaneous band like that over a band that basically plays the CD live.

I saw them in 2009 and they played for 2 hours and 40 minutes and after that I was ready to go home.

Standing in one place gets old after 5 hours.
Neither here nor there, but I remember an interview with Tre and he was talking about how they don't play with a click track live because he feels that it ruins the experience and that it doesn't feel natural

I could never play to a click. That's not what playing live is to me and it would feel like an exam and not a gig.

An exam and kind of cheating at it. But I understand that for that act there are some music pre recorded and to mix the whole thing together is easier with a click. I'm not a big fan of that for any kind of live shows though.

Depends on the genre. I used to play in both an industrial metal band and a symphonic metal band. The symphonic metal band couldn't find a keyboardist, so I (the drummer) played the show to a click and had all of the keyboards as backing track.

Same with the industrial band since there were like 5-10 keyboards going on at once, often set to specific tempos and could only be done live via backing tracks to a click.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on October 09, 2016, 12:45:09 AM
They did two European tours in 2014 with the exact same set list and it was so awesome that I needed to see it on both legs. First time it was sitting down far back on the balcony in an indoor venue during the winter, the second one was front rows in open air during the summer time. Completely different experiences.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on October 09, 2016, 01:56:02 PM
You guys are focusing way too heavily on extremes.

DT12 tour was the same every night but it was a really nice variety. Different periods of the band were represented and there were a lot of rare tunes. It was a show that would be worth seeing multiple times I'd say.

The Astonishing tour was one album. One period of the band's history and really in a single style for the most part. Unless you're a big fan of that album, you're not going to get much out of seeing it multiple times. To be fair, someone brought up the Scenes tour, same thing there. The only difference is it's much more highly regarded among fans. If The Astonishing was more universally acclaimed and the tour was as immersive as they made it out to be, there'd be more people attending the shows.

On the other hand, I'm ok with them not rotating setlists as heavily as they did with MP. Sure multiple shows might not be as special, but I was personally relieved that they weren't rotating the DT12 setlist because that was exactly the setlist I wanted to see. The happy medium is probably the ADTOE tour: Have three or four different setlists or maybe a set of ~30 songs rehearsed with lighting/video directions and choose 15 of those every night.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on October 09, 2016, 01:59:22 PM
Another difference with the Scenes tour is they didn't only play Scenes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on October 09, 2016, 02:08:15 PM
Another difference with the Scenes tour is they didn't only play Scenes.

I wouldn't get to excited over the medley they played after the Scenes album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on October 09, 2016, 02:08:56 PM
Another difference with the Scenes tour is they didn't only play Scenes.

I wouldn't get to excited over the medley they played after the Scenes album.

Hm? I can only base it off the Live Scenes DVD, but there was a hell of a set list after the album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on October 09, 2016, 02:11:58 PM
Well yeah, but that wasn't anywhere near representative of the tour. That was really just a one off, save for the previous night's "run through".

Through the second leg did have a much varied setlist. They didn't do the entire album on the second leg.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on October 09, 2016, 02:20:31 PM
Right, the spring tour in 2000 was all of Scenes and then the I&W/WDADU medley as the encore.  That was it.  And it was awesome.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on October 09, 2016, 02:22:12 PM
I'm not a medley guy. But the play through of the album was great. That was a the tour that I really noticed a huge uptick in attendance and buzz.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on October 09, 2016, 02:50:02 PM
Right, the spring tour in 2000 was all of Scenes and then the I&W/WDADU medley as the encore.  That was it.  And it was awesome.

Fascinating. Learn something new every day.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on October 10, 2016, 05:02:54 AM
Here's what I saw on the SFAM tour - when I saw DT two days in a row back to back (first EU leg):

Night 1:
SFAM
Peruvian Skies
Erotomania
Paradigm Shift
When Images And Words Unite

Night 2
Falling Into A Change Of Awake   (basically a medley of some of the songs featured on LFSNY)
When Images And Words Unite
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on October 10, 2016, 06:18:54 AM

Fascinating. You learn something new every day.

Wow I didn't know that yesterday!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: King Postwhore on October 10, 2016, 07:27:56 AM
Right, the spring tour in 2000 was all of Scenes and then the I&W/WDADU medley as the encore.  That was it.  And it was awesome.

And I only saw them once that tour as well.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on October 10, 2016, 08:13:51 AM
Those were the days for me where I saw them for each leg. If they came around twice, all the better.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: tristl on October 10, 2016, 08:29:21 AM
Like always on DTF, I think these are complaints on a very high level, I saw TA twice this year in Paris and in Frankfurt, I really loved it, it was very different to the 8 DT concerts I saw before that, but just the right thing for TA.

After beeing at the concerts I liked TA even more, it did bring the whole thing to live, the guys are so nice, brilliant and humble when you get to talk to them.
It always almost hurts me when people complain about stuff I just don't get.
I really hope there will be a TA DVD.

I am looking forward to a new album with harder material, but TA is very much up on my favorite list.
 :metal :hefdaddy :heart
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on October 10, 2016, 08:33:09 AM
Well, the analogy was obviously a bit exaggerated. But, the point is that *obviously* very few people will have a problem watching a rendition of the top 1 album of a band twice. TA live is far less exciting, and so maybe it shouldn't be too surprising when people say "it's only gotten more mechanical over the years, so I would see an exact duplicate of a show that already wasn't too exciting".

I'd have no problem seeing TA performed again in it's entirety, the reason it's not interesting the second time though is this:

I knew it was supposed to be a real theater atmosphere, but I couldn't help but feel a bit uncomfortable watch a metal rock show while sitting and the few people around me (among many empty seats) just sating there with blank looks on their faces. It felt so impersonal. I definitely wouldn't want to go through that again unless I felt like I could support the band more than just...sitting there.

Also, a medley encore would have done wonders for this tour.  They should have looked at SFAM tour as an example of how to proceed with the second leg.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on October 10, 2016, 08:37:45 AM
Like always on DTF, I think these are complaints on a very high level, I saw TA twice this year in Paris and in Frankfurt, I really loved it, it was very different to the 8 DT concerts I saw before that, but just the right thing for TA.

After beeing at the concerts I liked TA even more, it did bring the whole thing to live, the guys are so nice, brilliant and humble when you get to talk to them.
It always almost hurts me when people complain about stuff I just don't get.
I really hope there will be a TA DVD.

I am looking forward to a new album with harder material, but TA is very much up on my favorite list.
 :metal :hefdaddy :heart

I think I'm on the same page as you. I saw the band at Radio City and thought they were amazing (although it was my first DT show, so I'm probably biased). Whether or not the band plays with a click or rotates their setlist doesn't really matter to me. I'm still going to see songs I like being played by some of the best musicians in the world.

That said, obviously if you're not as high on TA as us, this tour probably isn't for you. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 10, 2016, 10:16:51 AM
Like always on DTF, I think these are complaints on a very high level, I saw TA twice this year in Paris and in Frankfurt, I really loved it, it was very different to the 8 DT concerts I saw before that, but just the right thing for TA.

After beeing at the concerts I liked TA even more, it did bring the whole thing to live, the guys are so nice, brilliant and humble when you get to talk to them.
It always almost hurts me when people complain about stuff I just don't get.
I really hope there will be a TA DVD.

I am looking forward to a new album with harder material, but TA is very much up on my favorite list.
 :metal :hefdaddy :heart

I think I'm on the same page as you. I saw the band at Radio City and thought they were amazing (although it was my first DT show, so I'm probably biased). Whether or not the band plays with a click or rotates their setlist doesn't really matter to me. I'm still going to see songs I like being played by some of the best musicians in the world.

That said, obviously if you're not as high on TA as us, this tour probably isn't for you. :lol

Same here. I enjoyed it immensely and didn't mind the set because it is billed as "DT presents". I don't think they could have done any better with their budget and limitations. The concept is about music, so the music is what comes first and is all you need to enjoy it.

I knew darn well once they announced the final track list what was gonna happen with this release, and was happy DT chose to just do it and see what happens.

In a way it is a play and should be viewed as such. The screens are helping you view the world a bit and give you an insight. Also, I can imagine the entire album as its played, even seeing Faythe running the castle halls. And all that fun stuff.

Unrelated: I saw The Lion King and it just made me want a production of The Astonishing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Donmac1989 on October 10, 2016, 02:47:09 PM
Personally I can't argue, I'm going to Dream Theater Presents The Astonishing Live for the final leg. This marks the first time I'd get to see them live, was too young and dumb to have seen them 11 years ago for the Gigantour when they came the first time to my knowledge. So I feel excited to get to see them in concert.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Air Weaver on October 10, 2016, 04:17:00 PM
At the Wilkes-Barre show, I was talking to someone at set break who didn't know the story, and I think didn't realize the show would just be TA. So I tried to do a quickie storyline cliffs notes, and when I got to "then the dictator has a change of heart" - she says "so it's like Footloose."

So there you have it - I love this album and show, but if I had to boil it down to a bumper sticker, I'd say "Hunger Games meets Footloose."

Also, I really want a post-script when the NOMACS crash. I want one of them to pop open and we hear "all this machinery making modern music can still be open hearted...."



Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Podaar on October 10, 2016, 04:21:34 PM
Great! Now whenever I hear those opening chords of "Our New World" this is what I'm going to see in my head.

(https://m.popkey.co/454901/E8zk6_s-200x150.gif)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on October 10, 2016, 04:28:19 PM
Footloose by Kenny Loggins is a great song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on October 10, 2016, 05:49:38 PM
Great! Now whenever I hear those opening chords of "Our New World" this is what I'm going to see in my head.

(https://m.popkey.co/454901/E8zk6_s-200x150.gif)

Could be worse.  You could have this pop in your head:

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcu5v00Yv11qakh43o1_500.gif)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 10, 2016, 09:03:38 PM
Personally I can't argue, I'm going to Dream Theater Presents The Astonishing Live for the final leg. This marks the first time I'd get to see them live, was too young and dumb to have seen them 11 years ago for the Gigantour when they came the first time to my knowledge. So I feel excited to get to see them in concert.

I was too young and dumb to see them with Satch, and with Yes
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Podaar on October 11, 2016, 05:13:33 AM
At Kev

 :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on October 12, 2016, 12:33:58 PM
Great! Now whenever I hear those opening chords of "Our New World" this is what I'm going to see in my head.

(https://m.popkey.co/454901/E8zk6_s-200x150.gif)

Could be worse.  You could have this pop in your head:

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcu5v00Yv11qakh43o1_500.gif)
I love both images.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ytserush on October 12, 2016, 03:00:34 PM
Saw them opening night on this leg and while there are whole rows of empty seats, the people there seemed to be into it.

I love the music and it was even better live and while the lyrics kill me I was able to ignore them (which I usually can't do)
Definitely a unique Dream Theater show. Very well presented for the most part. It really cooked for me after the intermission too.




And the brother theme continues to grow on me:

I have passed into Olympus
As was told in tales of old
To the City of Immortals
Marble white and purest gold.

I'm considering hitting the NJ PAC show, but I seem to have done enough concert damage in these next few weeks so I really need to think about that. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on October 12, 2016, 06:05:47 PM
Hey everyone! Just thought I'd emerge from the ether and say I'm actually really intrigued by this album. It's definitely a bold move and one that has rekindled my interest in the band.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on October 13, 2016, 08:34:39 AM
Hey everyone!

:omg:









































:omg:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on October 13, 2016, 11:16:35 PM
 :lol Yeah, I know, I don't post often, but I occasionally miss the community here, even not being a tremendous fan of DT anymore, (though I am still a pretty big fan). This new album though, it has a creative spark to it I haven't heard from them since the Portnoy days.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on October 14, 2016, 10:15:29 AM
Long time no see!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 14, 2016, 04:08:15 PM
You know what's a good Playlist....

All the songs with the "Brother"/"chosen" theme.

Descent/Over/Music
The Answer
A Saviour
Time Has Come
Brother
Chosen
Digital/X Aspect
The Path That Divides
Whispers/Hymn
Power Down
Astonishing

It actually works good.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on October 14, 2016, 10:58:43 PM
Hef: I apologize for my tendency to post a few times and disappear for two to four years. Honestly, I just forget to check on things, and because I'm not as much of an obsessed fan of DT I once was, I just don't think to post anymore. DT fan or not though, I think this site has alot of interesting people that post so it's really my loss entirely.

As far as the new album is concerned, specific highlights for me at this point include the transition between "Savior in the Square" and "When your time has come", it's just so elegantly done. Other favorites are "A Life Left Behind" with its awesome acoustic/piano intro and insanely catchy chorus, "Chosen" with its emotional guitar solo, and "Moment of Betrayal", James screaming in "The Walking Shadow", and the finale which I think ties the various musical themes together quite well. A HUGE highlight for me is LaBrie. He has never sounded this good to me. He's definitely the star of this album more than any other band member.

You might have guessed I haven't delved into the second act as much as the first, but I only started listening to it a week or so ago (I know, I'm late to the party!)

One criticism I've seen about this album is the complaint that it's too mellow and there are too many ballads. I see the majority of what are misinterpreted as ballads as simply mid-tempo melancholic prog a la Pink Floyd or H era Marillion. I think it works quite well, as I've never been necessarily married to the "heavier" aspects of DTs music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on October 14, 2016, 11:07:20 PM
Oh man, the violin and hand clapping noises in "Hymn of a thousand voices" is so far out of DTs normal comfort zone, I'm really appreciating that kind of experimentation. I think that's really what I'm finding so intriguing about this album; DT had settled into a very predictable album-writing pattern, and this album completely demolishes that pattern. I hope they continue this spirit on their next album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on October 15, 2016, 07:41:28 PM
Oh man, the violin and hand clapping noises in "Hymn of a thousand voices" is so far out of DTs normal comfort zone, I'm really appreciating that kind of experimentation. I think that's really what I'm finding so intriguing about this album; DT had settled into a very predictable album-writing pattern, and this album completely demolishes that pattern. I hope they continue this spirit on their next album.

Totally agree.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on October 15, 2016, 07:56:41 PM
Absolutely!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on October 15, 2016, 10:19:14 PM
Not a big fan of that song, but the violin solo is very cool.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: nikatapi on October 16, 2016, 11:41:27 AM
All these little elements like the violin, mandolin and bagpipes were really cool and i enjoy seeing the band trying different things. For that reason alone i enjoyed TA so much more than DT12
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: JRuless on October 16, 2016, 01:22:45 PM
Oh man, the violin and hand clapping noises in "Hymn of a thousand voices" is so far out of DTs normal comfort zone, I'm really appreciating that kind of experimentation. I think that's really what I'm finding so intriguing about this album; DT had settled into a very predictable album-writing pattern, and this album completely demolishes that pattern. I hope they continue this spirit on their next album.

Totally agree.

+1
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ravenfoul on October 16, 2016, 02:13:43 PM
All these little elements like the violin, mandolin and bagpipes were really cool and i enjoy seeing the band trying different things. For that reason alone i enjoyed TA so much more than DT12
So much better than DT12. It has not aged well for me at all. STR is still a top song for me, though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on October 17, 2016, 07:54:23 PM
DT12 was an okay album. It just felt kind of generic to me, making the album title somewhat appropriate.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ravenfoul on October 28, 2016, 07:15:56 AM
So, no new news on TA Live?  :'(
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on October 28, 2016, 07:28:02 AM
Yes, they're touring...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 28, 2016, 09:42:26 AM
You know what would be funny...if they didn't release it live at all, which would justify them doing two legs and saying it pretty much was the only chance to see it live.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on October 28, 2016, 12:07:05 PM
You know what would be funny...if they didn't release it live at all, which would justify them doing two legs and saying it pretty much was the only chance to see it live.

I can see this being the case.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on October 28, 2016, 01:10:29 PM
You know what would be funny...if they didn't release it live at all, which would justify them doing two legs and saying it pretty much was the only chance to see it live.

I can see this being the case.

Thirded.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on October 29, 2016, 02:42:56 PM
I wouldn't mind if they just waited until they're able to get an orchestra, choir, and maybe different vocalists for each character to record a live performance. Make it something a really special once in a lifetime event.

This tour is probably better to see in person than on a DVD anyway. Especially keeping in mind that a lot of the visuals (as cheap as they may be) aren't going to be visible on a live recording.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on October 29, 2016, 02:45:12 PM
As much as I love the record, I'd rather they not do a live DVD this time and save it for the next tour, where they can play a handful of TA tracks from it so we still get some of them on a live recording.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on October 29, 2016, 02:58:22 PM
I wish they did a more interesting live album setting for a change. Except the almost unwatchable Chaos in Motion, DT's DVDs have been dark indoor concerts. Rush had their Rush in Rio, Pink Floyd had Pompeii, Queen had Live at Wembley. It would be nice to have a good outdoor DVD.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on October 29, 2016, 03:06:22 PM
I love the official bootleg from the SDOIT tour for that reason.
It's also always fun to see the sun go down as the band is playing if the gig starts earlier, although I know most bands prefer not to have this on video cause it messes with their lighting show.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chrisbDTM on October 29, 2016, 03:15:10 PM
I've tried and tried to listen to the astonishing and I just can't get behind it. This is the record that knocked me out of DT-fanboy orbit
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 29, 2016, 03:49:28 PM
I hope that they will do another European tour of The Astonishing... seeing it twice was not enough
Also... this is the tour they really need to record on BlueRay. They will never do something like this again so it needs to be recorded.

If it was a Kickstart project I would spend a lot of money to get this going....
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on October 29, 2016, 08:19:12 PM
I wish they did a more interesting live album setting for a change. Except the almost unwatchable Chaos in Motion, DT's DVDs have been dark indoor concerts. Rush had their Rush in Rio, Pink Floyd had Pompeii, Queen had Live at Wembley. It would be nice to have a good outdoor DVD.

pretty good idea!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ytserush on October 30, 2016, 09:55:39 AM
You know what would be funny...if they didn't release it live at all, which would justify them doing two legs and saying it pretty much was the only chance to see it live.

Pretty impressive to be duplicating the Caress Of Steel touring cycle in this day and age.

Years from now this album and tour will become the stuff of legend.

Or not....

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on October 31, 2016, 02:53:14 PM
I wish they did a more interesting live album setting for a change. Except the almost unwatchable Chaos in Motion, DT's DVDs have been dark indoor concerts. Rush had their Rush in Rio, Pink Floyd had Pompeii, Queen had Live at Wembley. It would be nice to have a good outdoor DVD.

pretty good idea!

I like the idea as well, problem is, DT doesn't normally play these types of shows.  At least in the sense of a show that is worthy of making a DVD out of. The Wacken set was too short IMO to make a DVD out of for example.

I remember Blind Guardian wanted something like that and while they were playing the big festivals, they felt like none of those really combined everything they wanted for a DVD (outdoor venue, big crowd, dedicated fans, long set) so they just created their own festival to make the DVD (Imaginations Through the Looking Glass) and I think it came out really well.

The Official Bootleg in Chile is the best example of this for DT though.  That concert is actually really awesome cause the crowd is nuts too and it's a full blown DT set without any props.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on October 31, 2016, 02:55:44 PM

The Official Bootleg in Chile is the best example of this for DT though.  That concert is actually really awesome cause the crowd is nuts too and it's a full blown DT set without any props.

Might be my all time favorite DT DVD. Love the small rig. Looks Zeppelin-esque.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on November 01, 2016, 09:36:45 AM
Listening to a lot of Trans-Siberian Orchestra lately (we celebrate Christmas here starting September  :lol ) and for some reason, I always think of The Astonishing as being in the same spirit as the TSO albums.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on November 01, 2016, 09:38:14 AM
Listening to a lot of Trans-Siberian Orchestra lately (we celebrate Christmas here starting September  :lol ) and for some reason, I always think of The Astonishing as being in the same spirit as the TSO albums.

Heh, I never thought of that, but I can kind of see it.

Maybe that should be inspiration for how the tour should have been. Local string players plus lots of singers.

Hell, two Dream Theaters also so they can tour twice as much!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Blind Faythe on November 01, 2016, 10:50:40 AM
Been listening to the whole album once more and once more appreciating the beauty this album has brought upon me. This whole album is like an emotional roller coaster, I'm feeling peaceful one moment, then another moment I'm at the edge of my seat, etc.

Loving the song "Act of Faythe," has my favorite melody from this album as does the middle section of Lord Nafaryus.

Thank you Dream Theater for giving me such a masterpiece to listen too!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on November 03, 2016, 06:28:48 AM
I really liked The Astonishing but i am looking forward to a new single disc DT album again.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on November 03, 2016, 12:32:54 PM
Since we started to veer clearly off of The Astonishing and onto speculation about DT14, and there is already an active thread for that, I split off those posts and moved them there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jim Gatti on November 03, 2016, 11:45:37 PM
Here's a tutorial on how to Play A savior in the square. Really cool chord progression. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B33T9ej8ymk

If you want video on the solo let me know!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on November 07, 2016, 04:12:52 PM
Seeing them live last night just confirmed to me that Act I is far superior to Act II.  Most of the best songs are from Act I, and the few songs I can take or leave are on Act II (not counting the NOMAC tracks).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Blind Faythe on November 07, 2016, 07:35:06 PM
Do anyone here cry after they hear this album? This album as well as some Dream Theater songs make me cry so much. It's just so beautiful and sad.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Blind Faythe on November 07, 2016, 07:37:05 PM
Seeing them live last night just confirmed to me that Act I is far superior to Act II.  Most of the best songs are from Act I, and the few songs I can take or leave are on Act II (not counting the NOMAC tracks).

ACT OF FAYTHE! ACT OF FAYTHE! ACT OF FAYTHE!
In all seriousness, I agree. Savior in the Square, Lord Nafaryus, and a New Beginning are also very awesome.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on November 07, 2016, 08:03:54 PM
Ace of Faythe is definitely one of the more underrated songs from the record.  The melodies in that one are just glorious.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Scar on November 07, 2016, 08:06:14 PM
Ace of Faythe is definitely one of the more underrated songs from the record.  The melodies in that one are just glorious.

Underrated? Actually, I find Act of Faythe to be really silly: "My MUUUUUSIC player"
That part makes me want to barf. It's so.....ugh.  :-\
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on November 07, 2016, 08:07:59 PM
I think you mean it's so awesome. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Scar on November 07, 2016, 08:08:25 PM
That part? Really?  :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on November 07, 2016, 08:11:14 PM
And you are laughing, why exactly? 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Scar on November 07, 2016, 08:18:19 PM
Because, it is definitely not awesome at all. But it's cute you think so.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on November 07, 2016, 08:21:33 PM
Ah, there's that condescending attitude of yours again.  I had almost forgotten.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Blind Faythe on November 07, 2016, 08:22:31 PM
Because, it is definitely not awesome at all. But it's cute you think so.

Seriously dude, you have to knock it off. Couldn't you have just left it off at: "I don't think it's awesome."

Kev and I love it. That's just plain rude.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 07, 2016, 08:22:35 PM
That part is amazing. It reveals what she's always been hiding and what's helped her through her life. The music player is significant for the character of Faythe.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Scar on November 07, 2016, 08:23:50 PM
Reported for trying to egg on an argument.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Blind Faythe on November 07, 2016, 08:24:47 PM
That part is amazing. It reveals what she's always been hiding and what's helped her through her life. The music player is significant for the character of Faythe.

Yes, I agree. Well said.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on November 07, 2016, 08:25:59 PM
That part is amazing. It reveals what she's always been hiding and what's helped her through her life. The music player is significant for the character of Faythe.

Yep.  Calling it a "music player" is no different than had they used the term "CD player" or "iPod."  Music player just makes it more general. 

Besides, I am still not overly keen on the story or the lyrics - I think it's a bit hokey overall - but I don't care.  The music is more than great enough on most of the album for me not to care about a hokey story. 



Kev and I love it.

 :tup :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Blind Faythe on November 07, 2016, 08:29:22 PM
:)

Thanks Kev. You were right about the post you made back then. You are a really cool guy.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on November 07, 2016, 08:31:02 PM
That part is amazing. It reveals what she's always been hiding and what's helped her through her life. The music player is significant for the character of Faythe.

I love that part because it reminded me of how life changing music has been to me and how I am hooked to my music player for almost half a day every working day.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 07, 2016, 08:31:27 PM
That part is amazing. It reveals what she's always been hiding and what's helped her through her life. The music player is significant for the character of Faythe.

Yes, I agree. Well said.

Have you heard Iliminals cover of it? I think you'll enjoy that a lot.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Blind Faythe on November 07, 2016, 08:33:20 PM
I'll go do that right now. :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Blind Faythe on November 07, 2016, 08:37:06 PM
Ok, that brought me to tears. Ayumi Ueda is a really beautiful, talented singer. Gave me goosebumps throughout. :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on November 07, 2016, 08:38:35 PM
:)

Thanks Kev. You were right about the post you made back then. You are a really cool guy.

 :tup :tup

It's all about good vibes and actual discussion.  :coolio
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on November 07, 2016, 08:39:58 PM
That music player part is really nice.

Of all the awful lyrics on this album (and i like the album) that isn't one that catches my attention.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on November 07, 2016, 09:03:23 PM
Same here. I've seen a lot of people mention the music player thing, but that never bothered me too much. The man trying to cry like a woman, now that's a totally different league. That hasn't lost an inch of its WTF potential, after so many listens.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 07, 2016, 09:32:36 PM
Ace of Faythe is definitely one of the more underrated songs from the record.  The melodies in that one are just glorious.

Underrated? Actually, I find Act of Faythe to be really silly: "My MUUUUUSIC player"
That part makes me want to barf. It's so.....ugh.  :-\

I still think the lyrics there are silly, but musically it is indeed glorious.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Fritzinger on November 07, 2016, 11:13:56 PM
I also liked that part. Not being a native English speaker, my first thought on that part before really getting into the lyrics was Faythe singing about Gabriel! Of course i was totally wrong, but i still like to think of it that way.
I like that (f e in this particular part) they make a lot of use of the material of the scale Myxolydian b13. The most used mode of the Melodic minor (jazz minor) scale in pop music, which gives a lot of songs on TA that typical "musical"-character, imho. Next to the catchy melodies and the huge arrangements of course. It was also used in the beginning of Illumination Theory btw.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 08, 2016, 03:39:48 AM
Reported for trying to egg on an argument.
Don't waste my time like this. You were the only one I saw egging anything on. She and Kev were just standing up for their opinions, which you had already slagged. If you can't take it, then you sure as hell shouldn't dish it out. 

The report button is to be used for reporting violations.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on November 08, 2016, 05:34:55 AM
Add me to the group that loves Act of Faythe.  On my first few listens I did think that  "my music player" part was kind of cheesey.  But once you get passed that, you realize the song is really amazing and the melodies are so good.  It's one of the best ballads on the album, but can't beat Chosen.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on November 08, 2016, 05:50:49 AM
Add me to the group that loves Act of Faythe. 
Yes

On my first few listens I did think that  "my music player" part was kind of cheesey.   
Yup

   But once you get passed that, you realize the song is really amazing and the melodies are so good. 
Definitely

   It's one of the best ballads on the album, 
Agreed

  but can't beat Chosen.
:facepalm:
Cram takes a no hitter in a 0-0 game into the bottom of the 9th, and gives up a walk off home run.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on November 08, 2016, 05:59:14 AM
 :rollin

What's your favorite ballad then?  I am truly obsessed with Chosen.  I actually think it's my favorite song on the whole album.  That guitar solo was one of those moments when you just close your eyes while "seeing" it live and soak it in.   
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 08, 2016, 06:02:32 AM
Cram takes a no hitter in a 0-0 game into the bottom of the 9th, and gives up a walk off home run.

Translation for those of us who don't speak Murican sportball? I didn't understand a single word of that, except for "cram".

I like Chosen, but imo it's no comparison to Act of Faythe.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on November 08, 2016, 06:06:57 AM
  Murican sportball?
(https://fotos.fotoflexer.com/e81ae6c12ed22701a5462a2e3ac34b74.jpg)




Chosen is a track that I usually skip. I just don't think it goes anywhere.

Fave ballad. Well, they're all ballads aren't they? :lol

I think My Last Farewell is quite powerful. Losing Faythe is also pretty cool. The "Gabriel my son" part is awesome.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 08, 2016, 07:12:05 AM
Ah, I'm with Cram on this one... Chosen is my favorite ballad on the album easily.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on November 08, 2016, 07:27:39 AM
  Murican sportball?
(https://fotos.fotoflexer.com/e81ae6c12ed22701a5462a2e3ac34b74.jpg)




Chosen is a track that I usually skip. I just don't think it goes anywhere.

Fave ballad. Well, they're all ballads aren't they? :lol

I think My Last Farewell is quite powerful. Losing Faythe is also pretty cool. The "Gabriel my son" part is awesome.

 :lol at the pic, but I dont believe My Last Farewell is a balled, but I also really like Losing Faythe at that part you mention.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on November 08, 2016, 07:45:43 AM
Ah, I'm with Cram on this one... Chosen is my favorite ballad on the album easily.
Same here.  I'm not generally a DT ballad guy.  But they have written some fantastic ones in the Mangini era, and Chosen is right up there with the best of them.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 08, 2016, 07:46:26 AM
Yeah, Chosen is fantastic.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 08, 2016, 07:55:55 AM
Same here.  I'm not generally a DT ballad guy.  But they have written some fantastic ones in the Mangini era, and Chosen is right up there with the best of them.

That's true, This Is the Life, Beneath the Surface, The Bigger Picture, plus some good ballads on TA... That's a really good grouping of ballads.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on November 08, 2016, 08:15:36 AM
Agreed about Chosen. Also, it's one of their more accessible songs that could be used to point a potential new fan to.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on November 08, 2016, 08:38:13 AM
Agreed about Chosen. Also, it's one of their more accessible songs that could be used to point a potential new fan to.

I always thought this too.  If you took out the last verse the lyrics are also pretty general that could be applied to other things not TA story related so it almost works lyrically as well on its own.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 08, 2016, 09:19:58 AM
Yeah Chosen is general and accessible enough, I see it becoming a live staple moving forward. Good song, short time taken up in the set.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on November 08, 2016, 09:35:19 AM
I think the best ballad is The X Aspect. One of the most touching lyrically.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on November 08, 2016, 09:42:30 AM
I think the best ballad is The X Aspect. One of the most touching lyrically.

Fantastic track. Top 5 on TA for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on November 08, 2016, 09:52:14 AM
The X Aspect is another cracker. The section that starts:

Quote
Should I turn my back on him?
Abandon all our plans for revolution?
Will hope and freedom die by morning light?

is one of my top 3 moments of the whole album.  :tup
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on November 08, 2016, 09:54:35 AM
Yup, definitely another good ballad.  Can't go wrong with the ballads on this album IMO.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on November 08, 2016, 10:00:27 AM
Chosen is great, I also really like Begin Again a lot.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: oh8wrx on November 08, 2016, 10:51:29 AM
Listening to the album (again, for like the hundredth time), especially love "When your time has come", "A life left behind" (gives me chills), "Losing Faythe", "Chosen", and "Our new world".

Honestly, seeing them play the album really made me appreciate it so much more because of the visuals and intricacy of it all.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on November 08, 2016, 01:55:22 PM
I really think after many many listens and seeing the show twice that Whispers in the Wind is the only song I really am not a big fan of.  There were a few other tracks that I didn't really enjoy initially, but over time I've come to enjoy them except this one.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Siddhartha on November 08, 2016, 03:33:37 PM
My favorite part of the album is the guitar solo followed by "This very moment was always meant to be..."  in When your time has come.

That gets me everytime
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 08, 2016, 03:44:46 PM
My favorite part of the album is the guitar solo followed by "This very moment was always meant to be..."  in When your time has come.

That gets me everytime

Mine too, it's one of my favorite moments.

Begin Again instrumental ending, which is in the Entr'acte as well. That theme makes me feel I don't know, euphoric and content.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on November 08, 2016, 05:32:16 PM
   I am truly obsessed with Chosen.  I actually think it's my favorite song on the whole album.  That guitar solo was one of those moments when you just close your eyes while "seeing" it live and soak it in.

I think I did the same thing!

It really is hard to narrow it down to just a few favorites, but Chosen is up there; it's just a melodic gem.

  Losing Faythe is also pretty cool. The "Gabriel my son" part is awesome.

Losing Faythe is one of my least favorites from the whole album, but that "Gabriel, my son" part at the end is pretty amazing.  :hat

I think the best ballad is The X Aspect. One of the most touching lyrically.

Not to mention one of JR's best piano solo sections ever (the beginning).  Just glorious. :coolio
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on November 08, 2016, 05:34:01 PM
Yes, so glorious.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on November 08, 2016, 07:16:42 PM
Read on FB, DT are adding song from the past. They will play oldies plus the astonishing for the balance of the second leg of their North American tour.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on November 09, 2016, 12:24:59 AM
It's refreshing for a change to see a lot of love for the ballads, and for The Astonishing in general, in recent posts.


That's true, This Is the Life, Beneath the Surface, The Bigger Picture, plus some good ballads on TA... That's a really good grouping of ballads.

Chosen is great, I also really like Begin Again a lot.

All of the above. Especially nice to see some love for Begin Again, a vastly underrated song that never fails to bring the goosebumps, like a lot of moments on this incredible album.


It really is hard to narrow it down to just a few favorites, but Chosen is up there; it's just a melodic gem.

...

Losing Faythe is one of my least favorites from the whole album, but that "Gabriel, my son" part at the end is pretty amazing.  :hat


Considering that the first significant part of Losing Faythe is a direct reprise of Chosen, these statements are somewhat contradictory, with all due respect. And if the "Gabriel, my son" part is amazing, that just leaves Arabelle's part in the middle to make it your least favourite?

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on November 09, 2016, 06:37:47 AM
:rollin

What's your favorite ballad then?  I am truly obsessed with Chosen.  I actually think it's my favorite song on the whole album.  That guitar solo was one of those moments when you just close your eyes while "seeing" it live and soak it in.   

+1

Chosen is a gem. I'll probably lead a petition from here on our for them to play it on every tour. It absolutely slayed live.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on November 09, 2016, 07:15:14 AM
The echoey effects for the first section of Ravenskill put the picture in my mind that it's a misty morning, and despite the lyric "Through crowded streets...", I imagine the town square to be not that crowded at all, maybe around 7-8am. A few people here and there, perhaps going to get Ravenskill's equivalent of the morning paper, and it's one of these that Faythe speaks to.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on November 09, 2016, 07:17:40 AM
The echoey effects for the first section of Ravenskill put the picture in my mind that it's a misty morning, and despite the lyric "Through crowded streets...", I imagine the town square to be not that crowded at all, maybe around 7-8am. A few people here and there, perhaps going to get Ravenskill's equivalent of the morning paper, and it's one of these that Faythe speaks to.

The video part for this certainly didn't convey a crowded street, but something more like what you described
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on November 09, 2016, 07:26:30 AM
I really think after many many listens and seeing the show twice that Whispers in the Wind is the only song I really am not a big fan of.  There were a few other tracks that I didn't really enjoy initially, but over time I've come to enjoy them except this one.

I'm with you on Whispers. It's pretty short, but I feel it kinda takes away some of the momentum that was built up towards the end of Losing Faythe.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on November 09, 2016, 07:49:40 AM
I really think after many many listens and seeing the show twice that Whispers in the Wind is the only song I really am not a big fan of.  There were a few other tracks that I didn't really enjoy initially, but over time I've come to enjoy them except this one.

I'm with you on Whispers. It's pretty short, but I feel it kinda takes away some of the momentum that was built up towards the end of Losing Faythe.

Yea, I feel it kind of kills act 2.  Luckily for you and I, it is a short track.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on November 09, 2016, 03:12:30 PM
When I listen to the album, one of the songs that sticks out to me is Ravenskill. I feel like that track embodies the theatrical nature they were going for, especially the part after "Take my hand, we haven't time to spare" That riff with the keyboard sounds awesome and then after "Will be revealed, when she sheds her disguise" that choir patch that JR uses. It just has so many epic moments and feels theatrical--like I can picture it happening onstage during a play. The emotion that JLB puts into Faythe's part "There's a chance we can still end this game"

I just really like that song
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on November 09, 2016, 03:21:31 PM
Agreed.  At one point, I asked JP about that riff and how I couldn't stand that he had composed one of the tastiest riffs in DT history, only to give us 22 seconds of it, and have it never be heard from again.  His response was basically, [paraphrase] "welp, guess that means I better get busy on The Astonishing II."  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ravenfoul on November 09, 2016, 08:30:50 PM
Does ANYONE besides me like Whispers on the Wind? I know for a lot of you it kills the mood or something, maybe I'm just weird, but I really liked it. I felt like it could have been something really great if they fleshed it out more and spent more time on it, though. I thought it was more poignant than Far From Heaven from ADOTE for example.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on November 09, 2016, 08:36:10 PM
The echoey effects for the first section of Ravenskill put the picture in my mind that it's a misty morning, and despite the lyric "Through crowded streets...", I imagine the town square to be not that crowded at all, maybe around 7-8am. A few people here and there, perhaps going to get Ravenskill's equivalent of the morning paper, and it's one of these that Faythe speaks to.

Those echo effects on JLB's vocals at the beginning of Ravenskill make that part much better than had he just sang it naked.  I was glad that he used those effects live, too.


It really is hard to narrow it down to just a few favorites, but Chosen is up there; it's just a melodic gem.

...

Losing Faythe is one of my least favorites from the whole album, but that "Gabriel, my son" part at the end is pretty amazing.  :hat


Considering that the first significant part of Losing Faythe is a direct reprise of Chosen, these statements are somewhat contradictory, with all due respect. 

I disagree.  The melody just comes off as much better in Chosen, where it's soaring, as opposed to Losing Faythe, where it's more laid back and kind of crawling along.

When I listen to the album, one of the songs that sticks out to me is Ravenskill. I feel like that track embodies the theatrical nature they were going for, especially the part after "Take my hand, we haven't time to spare" That riff with the keyboard sounds awesome and then after "Will be revealed, when she sheds her disguise" that choir patch that JR uses. It just has so many epic moments and feels theatrical--like I can picture it happening onstage during a play. The emotion that JLB puts into Faythe's part "There's a chance we can still end this game"

I just really like that song

Ravenskill is still a top 3 song for me on this record.  Like I've said, it is very difficult to narrow it down to just three, but if asked, that is probably the first one I would mention.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SystematicThought on November 09, 2016, 08:56:52 PM
Does it place anywhere in your Top 20 DT songs?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: KevShmev on November 09, 2016, 09:00:45 PM
No. My DT top 20 is pretty tough to crack.  As much as I love TA, I doubt I'd put anything from in my top 20, but I suspect a lot of songs from it would be in the 21-70 range.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on November 10, 2016, 08:54:43 AM
Probably about the same for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DreamerTV on November 10, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
It was reported that The X Aspect was skipped during last gig in San Antonio (also with Road, Heaven's Cove and Begin Again).

As said in that gig thread,

Quote
If I went to the show and they skipped The X Aspect of all things, I would've been greatly disappointed

It's such a good piece of music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on November 10, 2016, 09:39:09 AM
Uh, I don't like this at all. I've seen that they added three encore songs and that's good, but what's the point of presenting the whole album in its entirety and then go "meh, whatever" on three songs?

I hope it's not true...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on November 10, 2016, 09:44:55 AM
I doubt they would leave out songs like this. Doesn't sound right to me..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on November 10, 2016, 11:12:15 AM
I don't know, it sounds like they are making up the increased play time by cutting TA songs. Maybe it's a curfew problem or something.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thoughtspart3 on November 10, 2016, 11:34:09 AM
That would suck if they cut songs from TA.  I hope that is not true.  It is possible that they have set times allocated at venues.  Since they were only playing TA and they know exactly how long it is they may have to cut songs to add in others.  However, I still think it would be sad to do that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 10, 2016, 11:39:29 AM
So they cut songs from the main show in order to play the encore songs. That sucks because those are all great songs live.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 10, 2016, 11:40:02 AM
I don't know, it sounds like they are making up the increased play time by cutting TA songs. Maybe it's a curfew problem or something.
I hope that's what it is.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: goo-goo on November 10, 2016, 12:09:53 PM
I don't know, it sounds like they are making up the increased play time by cutting TA songs. Maybe it's a curfew problem or something.
I hope that's what it is.

I think the San Antonio show had a curfew. The show ended at 10:15pm and the parking was only valid until 1030pm. I think most of these opera houses/theater venues have early curfews.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on November 10, 2016, 12:20:07 PM
Does ANYONE besides me like Whispers on the Wind? I know for a lot of you it kills the mood or something, maybe I'm just weird, but I really liked it.

I do. And I don't get that "momentum" thing after Losing Faythe. Nafaryus asks Gabriel to revive Faythe, and WOTW is Gabriel doubting that he can do it. For that purpose, it is absolutely perfect. Nothing more needs to be said.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on November 10, 2016, 12:44:41 PM
I don't know, it sounds like they are making up the increased play time by cutting TA songs. Maybe it's a curfew problem or something.
I hope that's what it is.

I think the San Antonio show had a curfew. The show ended at 10:15pm and the parking was only valid until 1030pm. I think most of these opera houses/theater venues have early curfews.

Man, that's rough then. I mean, I'm not even that much a fan of TA, but when I went to see them in Boston, I came to see TA in totality. Had they replaced songs with staple songs, I probably wouldn't have been happy.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 10, 2016, 12:47:10 PM
Man, that's rough then. I mean, I'm not even that much a fan of TA, but when I went to see them in Boston, I came to see TA in totality. Had they replaced songs with staple songs, I probably wouldn't have been happy.

Yeah I tend to agree with that notion. If they wanted to add a couple extra songs as an encore to TA in it's entirety, that's cool. But to do that at the cost of songs that actually make up the story that is TA, when the main focus of the show is supposed to be just that...Not sure that's a great idea.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thoughtspart3 on November 10, 2016, 08:59:26 PM
I like whispers too. It is the emotional low point that sets up Hymn which is light after the darkness.  I also like the phrasing by James.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Blind Faythe on November 11, 2016, 01:16:40 PM
Relistened to The Astonishing and it still never gets old. Dystopian Overture really sticks out to me now. The introduction is just very catchy and that moment when all the instruments get their spot in the spotlight...wow, that was amazing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on November 12, 2016, 03:31:42 AM
Whispers on the wind is wonderful, the darkest point of the album as far as I'm concerned. Excellent song.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on November 12, 2016, 02:17:47 PM
When I listened to it the other day, it dawned on me that Dystopian Overture sounds "right" as a piece of music. Every section is meant to be there, and to be preceded and followed by the sections/themes they are preceded and followed by. It's not just a procession of themes for the sake of it. It serves a purpose to transport us into the world of the story.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gzarruk on November 19, 2016, 09:19:13 PM
When I listened to it the other day, it dawned on me that Dystopian Overture sounds "right" as a piece of music. Every section is meant to be there, and to be preceded and followed by the sections/themes they are preceded and followed by. It's not just a procession of themes for the sake of it. It serves a purpose to transport us into the world of the story.

Dystopian Overture is still one of my favorite parts of the album. It's just perfect and flows nicely into TGOM
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Evai on November 20, 2016, 05:41:50 PM
I get really into 2285 Entr'acte, singing the lyrics that go with all the callbacks  :D Some of them have to have words chopped out though
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: nikatapi on November 21, 2016, 04:02:01 AM
Still love this album, i have to say. Even though it's not suited for a casual listen, it's ambitious, it's different and it showed a DT that is willing to take risks and try something different. I really appreciate that mentality.

The only downside which seems to be the case with all the recent DT albums, is the forced "epicness" especially during the song endings, which becomes a little cheesy and a little stale after a few times.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on November 21, 2016, 06:53:39 AM
Whispers on the wind is wonderful, the darkest point of the album as far as I'm concerned. Excellent song.

I find it beautiful as well.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on November 21, 2016, 06:51:13 PM
Still love this album, i have to say. Even though it's not suited for a casual listen, it's ambitious, it's different and it showed a DT that is willing to take risks and try something different. I really appreciate that mentality.

The only downside which seems to be the case with all the recent DT albums, is the forced "epicness" especially during the song endings, which becomes a little cheesy and a little stale after a few times.
I love the epic endings, it elevates to a whole new level and puts me in a better mood.. I say keep up the good work DT!!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Darkstarshades on November 21, 2016, 06:52:54 PM
Still love this album, i have to say. Even though it's not suited for a casual listen, it's ambitious, it's different and it showed a DT that is willing to take risks and try something different. I really appreciate that mentality.

The only downside which seems to be the case with all the recent DT albums, is the forced "epicness" especially during the song endings, which becomes a little cheesy and a little stale after a few times.
I love the epic endings, it elevates to a whole new level and puts me in a better mood.. I say keep up the good work DT!!!

You're just a squid.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on November 22, 2016, 01:46:42 AM
Yep, even squid brains can comprehend great music when they hear it from the depths.  :yarr
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SeRoX on November 22, 2016, 09:06:07 AM
If they decide not to film TA live in its entirety it's completely fine with me. Studio is enough for me. Well...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on November 22, 2016, 09:10:32 AM
I see a live DVD release highly unlikely at this point. It appears they are done with their Astonishing shows for good (given the upcoming I&W European tour). Maybe there will be an Asian leg for the Astonishing live, but the DVD possibility seems to be less likely each passing day.

I hope I'm wrong tho. A live release would be very nice.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gzarruk on November 22, 2016, 10:58:21 AM
I see a live DVD release highly unlikely at this point. It appears they are done with their Astonishing shows for good (given the upcoming I&W European tour). Maybe there will be an Asian leg for the Astonishing live, but the DVD possibility seems to be less likely each passing day.

I hope I'm wrong tho. A live release would be very nice.

They can always release a Live compilation with footage from different places/countries.  ;)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on November 22, 2016, 11:19:04 AM
Maybe they have allready filmed a show and are just keeping hush hush about it. If that was the case though, some fan would have likely posted something about it on this forum or on social media.
I'm wondering if they are planning on privately filming this with a full orchestra and chior without a audience, and make a big production out of it. One can only speculate,  there hasn't been any official announcement about TA being documented so this one may be getting away from us. That would be kind of a bummer, being that this is such a unique concert experience.  Having this captured on film would be something special!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on November 22, 2016, 11:32:56 AM
Maybe they have allready filmed a show and are just keeping hush hush about it. If that was the case though, some fan would have likely posted something about it on this forum or on social media.

No way they don't let the people in the audience know they're being filmed for a future release. I could see them not announcing it beforehand, but witholding the information from the very people who will be immortalized on the DVD? nah.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gzarruk on November 22, 2016, 11:59:56 AM
My guess is they would just record footage of everything, and then make a compilation, like Chaos in Motion... but done right  :biggrin:

Hope we can get an official update on it soon, they haven't confirmed anything  :-\
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ravenfoul on November 22, 2016, 08:00:43 PM
Just a note from a youtube video I was watching today, I think it's one of mr.dreamtheater2's vids. 1993 rare studio jam or something, with newspaper interviews as the background. In one of those interviews, James actually states that way back then, one of the things that he wanted to do was a musical. Looks like he got his wish many, many years later haha.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on November 22, 2016, 08:06:05 PM
Just a note from a youtube video I was watching today, I think it's one of mr.dreamtheater2's vids. 1993 rare studio jam or something, with newspaper interviews as the background. In one of those interviews, James actually states that way back then, one of the things that he wanted to do was a musical. Looks like he got his wish many, many years later haha.

Very true. The Theater Equation was pretty awesome.  :hat
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ravenfoul on November 22, 2016, 09:03:23 PM
Just a note from a youtube video I was watching today, I think it's one of mr.dreamtheater2's vids. 1993 rare studio jam or something, with newspaper interviews as the background. In one of those interviews, James actually states that way back then, one of the things that he wanted to do was a musical. Looks like he got his wish many, many years later haha.

Very true. The Theater Equation was pretty awesome.  :hat
Oh absolutely, that was a show I wish I could have been to for sure.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on November 23, 2016, 12:25:40 PM
So why is DT skipping songs from TA on the past few shows? I saw it being discussed, just don't know if anyone knew the reason.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on November 23, 2016, 12:33:02 PM
So why is DT skipping songs from TA on the past few shows? I saw it being discussed, just don't know if anyone knew the reason.

To make room for the new encore songs.  It has been discussed quite a bit in the tour section.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on November 23, 2016, 01:26:31 PM
As much as I love TA, I'm excited to hear some non-TA songs when I go to the show in Durham. It will be my first time hearing classic Dream Theater, which is always a cool feeling.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on November 23, 2016, 03:02:52 PM
Can someone with an ear for chords help me out? I'm trying to work out a particular chord in Begin Again, and it only appears very briefly in each verse. At these lyrics, chord appears with lyrics in bold/italic:

"In an instant, life could change, and now and then, begin again..."

It's stunningly beautiful (as is the entire song, one of their most gorgeous songs ever). If someone could help, that would be awesome!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: PMA on November 23, 2016, 04:03:34 PM
Does anyone know for sure what songs from TA were left out of the recent tour to make room for the encore tunes?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on November 23, 2016, 08:51:08 PM
Does anyone know for sure what songs from TA were left out of the recent tour to make room for the encore tunes?

The X Aspect
The Road to Revolution
Heaven's Cove
Begin Again
Whisper's in the Wind

At least that's what Setlist.fm says was cut from the show on Nov. 20th.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on November 23, 2016, 11:45:04 PM
That is correct.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on November 23, 2016, 11:45:53 PM
That is correct.

I looked up the setlist.fm one and then looked up the album set list and did a detailed item analysis.

Can't I at least get a gold star too?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on November 23, 2016, 11:57:38 PM
Two.  Remind me if we ever meet.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on November 24, 2016, 11:18:16 AM
Does anyone know for sure what songs from TA were left out of the recent tour to make room for the encore tunes?

The X Aspect
The Road to Revolution
Heaven's Cove
Begin Again
Whisper's in the Wind

At least that's what Setlist.fm says was cut from the show on Nov. 20th.
Holy crap, some amazing songs were left out. I really think doing that was a bad idea.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Dream Team on November 24, 2016, 02:00:15 PM
Does anyone know for sure what songs from TA were left out of the recent tour to make room for the encore tunes?

The X Aspect
The Road to Revolution
Heaven's Cove
Begin Again
Whisper's in the Wind

At least that's what Setlist.fm says was cut from the show on Nov. 20th.
Holy crap, some amazing songs were left out. I really think doing that was a bad idea.

I guess DT can't win no matter what they do.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on November 24, 2016, 02:27:28 PM
Does anyone know for sure what songs from TA were left out of the recent tour to make room for the encore tunes?

The X Aspect
The Road to Revolution
Heaven's Cove
Begin Again
Whisper's in the Wind

At least that's what Setlist.fm says was cut from the show on Nov. 20th.
Holy crap, some amazing songs were left out. I really think doing that was a bad idea.

I guess DT can't win no matter what they do.
everything is never enough lols

That's not like it. I loved the full The Astonishing show so much that I saw it for 2 consecutive nights (and boy, it wasn't cheap); and one of the reasons I took the decision of seeing it again was that I knew that they wouldn't repeat it ever again. It's the full Astonishing experience, from beginning to end, and that's what made this tour special. I think it was a bad idea taking some songs from the album and adding some ole classics because they will never do this tour again, and they have played PMU, AIA and TSCO literally hundreds and thousands of times (and will continue doing so). I don't know what prompted them to pull off those songs, if it was low attendance or if they just felt like playing some old tunes just for the sake of having a good time. Either way, it's fine and they can do whatever they want of course, but I don't agree with the move. I can't imagine them playing songs like The X Aspect or The Road to Revolution as standalone songs in future concerts because they don't work that well outside of their context IMO, so that kinda makes (made?) this tour the only chance to check them out live.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ReaperKK on November 24, 2016, 03:56:46 PM
I kind of go back and forth on the whole DT taking some songs out. I mean if they advertised the TA as the whole show then I feel like they should play the whole show. I'm not interested in seeing TA so I'll pass and catch them when they do a normal DT show. Playing a few songs as an encore isn't enough to make me want to see them when 95% of the show is TA.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BelichickFan on November 24, 2016, 04:17:17 PM
Does anyone know for sure what songs from TA were left out of the recent tour to make room for the encore tunes?

The X Aspect
The Road to Revolution
Heaven's Cove
Begin Again
Whisper's in the Wind

At least that's what Setlist.fm says was cut from the show on Nov. 20th.
Holy crap, some amazing songs were left out. I really think doing that was a bad idea.

I guess DT can't win no matter what they do.
The Astonishing is 2:10.  Add a little applause, etc, it's maybe 2:15 live.  They added about 25 minutes.  Add 5 more for the encore break and you're at 2:45 which is right around what the Along for the Ride tour was.  So they could have done it.  They just chose not to.  Which is their prerogative but it wasn't undoable to do the whole of The Astonishing and still add 30 minutes.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on November 24, 2016, 11:07:30 PM
Does anyone know for sure what songs from TA were left out of the recent tour to make room for the encore tunes?

The X Aspect
The Road to Revolution
Heaven's Cove
Begin Again
Whisper's in the Wind

At least that's what Setlist.fm says was cut from the show on Nov. 20th.
Holy crap, some amazing songs were left out. I really think doing that was a bad idea.

I guess DT can't win no matter what they do.
The Astonishing is 2:10.  Add a little applause, etc, it's maybe 2:15 live.  They added about 25 minutes.  Add 5 more for the encore break and you're at 2:45 which is right around what the Along for the Ride tour was.  So they could have done it.  They just chose not to.  Which is their prerogative but it wasn't undoable to do the whole of The Astonishing and still add 30 minutes.

If it was me I would be pissed if they cut out songs from the Astonishing to make room for an encore.

But then I love TA and even having seen it twice I would rather see it again than the Images & Words and beyond tour.

It's such a special tour that will never return  again. Sure they will play a few songs but never the whole Astonishing show.

Images & Words and beyond will still be a great tour and the fact that we will be four friends going to this tour when we were 2 going to the Astonishing makes it even better. But still.... it will be songs I have heard many times live before and will hear again on the next tour.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on November 25, 2016, 07:38:39 AM
I agree that removing those songs was a bad idea. Mainly because if I went to those particular shows expecting the album in its entirety, I'd be disappointed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on November 25, 2016, 08:13:18 AM
They're all songs I skipped for my abridged version of The Astonishing, save for Road to Revolution, so if it had happened to me I would have probably agreed  :biggrin: but yeah, it's a small letdown for those anticipating the *whole* thing.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on November 25, 2016, 09:36:54 AM
My news feed has been suggesting this interview:

https://metalassault.com/Interviews/2016/11/10/a-cross-between-a-rock-concert-a-movie-and-a-musical-john-petrucci-discusses-dream-theaters-the-astonishing-live-experience/

which seems to be recent (they claim they spoke to JP on November 9th)

Quote
I imagined it first as a Dream Theater show, and then of course as a Dream Theater album, but beyond that, there’s a video game that is in development, there’s a novel that is in development. And one of the other things is that, yes, it would fit perfectly, I think, adapted as a musical, in the same way that The Who did that successfully with ‘Tommy’, and Green Day more recently with ‘American Idiot’ on broadway. So yeah, that would be amazing.

Is this just an old interview they're pushing as new, or is he still counting on the computer game and the novel? I assumed that at this point, at least the computer game is off the table.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on November 25, 2016, 12:24:50 PM
The video game is still on as far as I know - I've played an almost complete version of it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 25, 2016, 09:16:53 PM
The reason I don't see a DVD is because since day one of the tour, it was presented as a live experience. Think about about the quote "People just don't have the time" and it showed.

If you didn't bother to see the show, that's it. Which most people won't like. But I love it. It's like you people don't like the music don't expect a DVD.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ytserush on November 26, 2016, 08:04:12 AM
I'm glad I got to see the whole thing live.

I think they caved by changing the set like that. (And I say that having a very low regard for the lyrics.)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on November 26, 2016, 11:09:13 AM
I'm also glad I got to see the whole thing live twice (Chicago/Milwaukee)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gzarruk on November 26, 2016, 02:41:33 PM
I really really like TA, it made it to my top 3 DT albums  ;D

Having said that, I think they're taking it too far with the video game, a possible musical, the book and even the movie idea. I understand this is an enormous concept and they want to have it represented the best way they can, but this seems like they're pushing too much on these ideas, which, imo, won't end up being that good or successful as they might want them to be :-\
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on November 26, 2016, 03:17:18 PM
None of that stuff will happen, honestly. The first leg of the tour went fine, but the second one was a plain disaster. Who will honestly play a smartphone game a year after an album came out? Not many. Who would read a novel about a plot that already in lyrics form was cringeworthy in a lot of places? Not many.

DT aren't screenwriters, or authors. They are musicians. The earlier they return to what they are best at, the better. There is so much music to explore that they shut out (jazz, acoustic), it's an utter waste of time to go The Wall when they so clearly aren't good at it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on November 26, 2016, 03:18:31 PM
None of that stuff will happen, honestly. The first leg of the tour went fine, but the second one was a plain disaster. Who will honestly play a smartphone game a year after an album came out? Not many. Who would read a novel about a plot that already in lyrics form was cringeworthy in a lot of places? Not many.

DT aren't screenwriters, or authors. They are musicians. The earlier they return to what they are best at, the better.

While I completely agree with you, plenty of people here (at least) seem to really think the story was top notch and amazing. I also doubt JP will be writing any of it himself.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on November 26, 2016, 03:44:18 PM
DTF for many reasons isn't a good measuring stick. If you look at social media like Facebook or YouTube,  rating sites like Sputnik and RYM, and ticketing sites like Ticketmaster, there's one conclusion: TA wasn't well received, and DT is best advised moving on. To some degree I think they know that, I think the IAW tour is a direct acknowledgement of that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ReaperKK on November 26, 2016, 07:33:43 PM
I'm really debating if I should go see TA live. They are in Charlotte the 28th and while I don't care for TA I'd like to support the guys. There are tickets a plenty.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on November 26, 2016, 07:35:13 PM
  TA wasn't well received, and DT is best advised moving on. To some degree I think they know that, I think the IAW tour is a direct acknowledgement of that.
Are you saying that you believe this next run of European dates was originally intended to be a TA leg?

DTF for many reasons isn't a good measuring stick. If you look at social media like Facebook or YouTube,  rating sites like Sputnik and RYM, and ticketing sites like Ticketmaster, 

I think for DT, DTF is a relatively decent measuring stick. TA got plenty of criticisms around here. I think DT has always been fairly scrutinized around here.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gzarruk on November 26, 2016, 07:36:37 PM
I'm really debating if I should go see TA live. They are in Charlotte the 28th and while I don't care for TA I'd like to support the guys. There are tickets a plenty.

I think you should go just to support the band, also, they're playing 3 old songs for the encore. I would LOVE to have the opportunity to see the band live, no matter what they're playing, since I missed the only show they ever did here, back in 2010. I say go  :)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on November 26, 2016, 07:38:37 PM
I missed this tour and am extremely bummed. I couldn't imagine not seeing them if I could.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on November 26, 2016, 07:43:13 PM
Are you saying that you believe this next run of European dates was originally intended to be a TA leg?

No, not really. I don't know what DT were planning, but I think after playing to 10 rows of fans in several venues, they said "We're hemorrhaging money, we need to bring back the fans. IAW 25th is coming up, let's tour on that."

Quote
I think for DT, DTF is a relatively decent measuring stick. TA got plenty of criticisms around here. I think DT has always been fairly scrutinized around here.

Nowhere near. Take RYM and Sputnik alone, TA is rated as below WDADU. Facebook is no different really, and as said, the last few concerts had abysmal attendance.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on November 26, 2016, 07:46:57 PM
I have no idea what RYM and Sputnik are. At least I've heard of Facebook.

Not sure what Facebook has to do with it. Random comments by fans?

And WTF does RYM and Sputnik do?

Attendance, I'll give you is tangible.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on November 26, 2016, 07:53:28 PM
https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/dream_theater  2.6/5 (1,021 ratings)

https://www.sputnikmusic.com/bands/Dream-Theater/49/   2.5/5 (231 ratings)

I'm assuming we will now go into the "discredit each site separately, ignoring its aggregate power" part of the discussion.

It is great that on DTF love TA, but overall TA has been ill-received, and ill-attended. DT are well advised to just drop it and move on,


Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on November 26, 2016, 08:03:26 PM

I'm assuming we will now go into the "discredit each site separately, ignoring its aggregate power" part of the discussion.
Dude, what? Really??

I wouldn't even know where to begin trying to discredit those sites. I've never heard of them. Looks like you can submit ratings.


The album has had a mediocre lukewarm reception here. I don't have any issues using DTF as a barometer.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on November 26, 2016, 08:05:16 PM
I wouldn't even know where to begin trying to discredit those sites. I've never heard of them. Looks like you can submit ratings.

It's the democracy thing. Everybody votes their own.

The album has had a mediocre lukewarm reception here. I don't have any issues using DTF as a barometer.

And the lukewarm reception here is way beyond the general reception. When DTF is lukwarm about an album, the general public is very dissatisfied.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on November 26, 2016, 08:46:54 PM
That's like using Wikipedia as a reputable source for a college thesis.

Sites that any dope with an Internet connection can capriciously submit ratings to aren't places with which I would concern myself. Besides, far fewer people voted for TA as compared to the other releases. The percentage of votes compared to the album sales for TA makes the vote on those sites irrelevant. That's considering more people who already don't like DT probably voted against them for their own amusement. 400 votes on Sputnik? That's like using only the state of Montana to judge a presidential candidate.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on November 26, 2016, 08:59:04 PM
As I said, we now entered the "diss every site separately, disregarding their aggregate power" state of the discussion. I mean, of course, each of those 1,500 votes are just one single guy's opinion! Even when they liked IAW and SFAM beforehand!

Sigh.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gzarruk on November 26, 2016, 09:15:05 PM
I might be wrong, but didn't TA did very well on the charts when it debuted? I mean Billboard and that kind of stuff
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on November 26, 2016, 09:43:36 PM
As I said, we now entered the "diss every site separately, disregarding their aggregate power" state of the discussion. I mean, of course, each of those 1,500 votes are just one single guy's opinion! Even when they liked IAW and SFAM beforehand!

Sigh.

It's not a diss. It's an observation. The number of votes for TA is much smaller than the others. It's even more of an insignificant amount compared to the album sales. To me that makes the vote tally irrelevant. I sure as hell wouldn't base my decision on buying/not buying the album (or any album) using the 400 votes on Sputnik. I think the problem is that you expect everybody to put the same value in those numbers as you do, and if they don't, they're just dissing the site's "aggregate power".
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on November 26, 2016, 10:02:56 PM
DTF for many reasons isn't a good measuring stick. If you look at social media like Facebook or YouTube,  rating sites like Sputnik and RYM, and ticketing sites like Ticketmaster, there's one conclusion: TA wasn't well received, and DT is best advised moving on. To some degree I think they know that, I think the IAW tour is a direct acknowledgement of that.

Oh I have already said that (about FB and shows attendances)and my  comments were described as "laughable" to say the least. I salute you for daring sharing your opinion like that.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on November 27, 2016, 06:51:50 AM
I guess I have a few thoughts on The Astonishing.

- Based on overall tour attendance and low ratings in certain corners of the internet, I think it's fair to say that The Astonishing had a mixed reception. :sadpanda:

- Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly, the European and first American legs of the tour were relatively successful. Maybe attendance was a little down, but that's to be expected when you're only playing new stuff.

It seems like where things started to go off the rails a little was the second American leg. The decision to play so many shows in so many weird markets was a strange one, at least to me. Even if the band was doing greatest hit-type shows, would that leg have been a success? I don't know. It would have been tough, either way.

- While the album's ratings on some websites are bad, I don't think it's all doom and gloom. Prog Archives rates the album as being around the middle of the band's discography. Critical reception was actually very good. Most YouTube videos have a 90% like rating. Look, it doesn't have the same esteem as OK Computer or even Scenes from a Memory, but it's not Lulu either. :lol

I guess my general point of view is that there are areas for concern in the Dream Theater world right now, but as long as the band learns from a few of the mistakes they've made along the way, all will be fine. I personally think that The Astonishing was one of their best albums, and can't wait to see it live in a few weeks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: nikatapi on November 27, 2016, 07:29:57 AM
I guess I have a few thoughts on The Astonishing.

- Based on overall tour attendance and low ratings in certain corners of the internet, I think it's fair to say that The Astonishing had a mixed reception. :sadpanda:

- Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly, the European and first American legs of the tour were relatively successful. Maybe attendance was a little down, but that's to be expected when you're only playing new stuff.

It seems like where things started to go off the rails a little was the second American leg. The decision to play so many shows in so many weird markets was a strange one, at least to me. Even if the band was doing greatest hit-type shows, would that leg have been a success? I don't know. It would have been tough, either way.

- While the album's ratings on some websites are bad, I don't think it's all doom and gloom. Prog Archives rates the album as being around the middle of the band's discography. Critical reception was actually very good. Most YouTube videos have a 90% like rating. Look, it doesn't have the same esteem as OK Computer or even Scenes from a Memory, but it's not Lulu either. :lol

I guess my general point of view is that there are areas for concern in the Dream Theater world right now, but as long as the band learns from a few of the mistakes they've made along the way, all will be fine. I personally think that The Astonishing was one of their best albums, and can't wait to see it live in a few weeks.

Some fair points made here. Personally i like the album, despite it's faults and i think it was such a daring move from the band to do a tour based solely on the album.

The mixed reaction is reasonable, since it's not the typical DT album, and maybe many fans were overhyped by the news of a double concept album and expected something very proggy and heavy.

I think the fault is that they overtoured the Astonishing show, which in a way is understandable given it is such a big production, but visiting markets twice with only new material being performed is not very easy to attract people.

Let's not kid ourselves, DT is a band with a huge catalog, and even if someone likes TA, going on a concert to see DT and pay a kind of expensive ticket, without hearing any of the older songs, is not an easy decision for many fans, hence the lower attendance.

I&W tour seems like damage control to be honest, just to reevaluate how big the fanbase is after the whole Astonishing period, and remind people that DT is still a prog metal band, not going to be a rock-opera act from now on. Which of course is great for the fans who will have the chance to see an amazing show and hearing old classics.

I also believe that the next album will be kind of back to the roots if you will, like ADTOE was at the time, but that's another discussion.

Still, i admire DT for having the balls to release something like The Astonishing, and tour exclusively playing the album live. It was a very risky move and showed that the band maintains its artistic integrity and not only trying to cater to fans' expectations.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on November 27, 2016, 09:24:50 AM
DTF for many reasons isn't a good measuring stick. If you look at social media like Facebook or YouTube,  rating sites like Sputnik and RYM, and ticketing sites like Ticketmaster, there's one conclusion: TA wasn't well received, and DT is best advised moving on. To some degree I think they know that, I think the IAW tour is a direct acknowledgement of that.

Oh I have already said that (about FB and shows attendances)and my  comments were described as "laughable" to say the least. I salute you for daring sharing your opinion like that.

Amazon reviews aren't all too different. It has one of the lowest "this is the best album ever, 5 stars!!" percentages of the DT discography, and outside the 5-star bar, the next higher percentage bar is actually 2 stars. iTunes is the same story.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on November 28, 2016, 06:05:35 AM
Anyone seen this tweet from Jordan: https://twitter.com/Jcrudess/status/803222119752400896

Official announcement of The Astonishing, the book. https://www.vaultbooks.pub/store/p17/The_Astonishing.html

$75??? That's gotta be wrong..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 28, 2016, 06:10:24 AM
That price looks about right when you look at the extras it comes with, but are they going to release a standard edition of the book that's cheaper? The novel only had niche appeal to begin with, and this is niche even within that niche.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Skeever on November 28, 2016, 06:21:11 AM
That price looks about right when you look at the extras it comes with, but are they going to release a standard edition of the book that's cheaper? The novel only had niche appeal to begin with, and this is niche even within that niche.

The facebook post makes it seem like this is the first press, period.

A little disappointed by that, honestly. I was hoping they'd do a novel that would stand on its own merits, rather than a novelty item.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on November 28, 2016, 06:25:59 AM
I do love fantasy series, and Peter Orullian has been on my radar as an author worth checking out, but I'd be hesitant to buy a novelisation of TA. Definitely not at that price..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on November 28, 2016, 06:31:18 AM
It's a huge shame that The Astonishing hasn't been as well received as it should be. It contains some of DT's most moving and beautiful music that they have ever written. And it's nice to see them embrace positivity and light over the last few albums after the incredibly dark and dismal SC & BC&SL (and other albums before it). The negative is not what DT do anymore; the post-Portnoy albums have proved that. It's kinda cool that they're still going ahead with things like the novel. No negative reception is gonna stop the DT train from rolling the way it wants to!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ReaperKK on November 28, 2016, 07:05:26 AM
In my eyes TA was an ambitious project for DT and I think they fell short. It's not a dark/light or negative/positive thing. It's just an album that DT made that didn't resonate with some fans.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on November 28, 2016, 07:07:39 AM
That price looks about right when you look at the extras it comes with, but are they going to release a standard edition of the book that's cheaper? The novel only had niche appeal to begin with, and this is niche even within that niche.

The facebook post makes it seem like this is the first press, period.

A little disappointed by that, honestly. I was hoping they'd do a novel that would stand on its own merits, rather than a novelty item.
That would make no business sense at all. I just can't see them only selling this is a limited high-cost special edition, so I would expect a normal edition to follow on paperback & kindle. I have no inside knowledge at all by the way, but not doing a full release would be the dumbest idea.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 28, 2016, 07:10:32 AM
That price looks about right when you look at the extras it comes with, but are they going to release a standard edition of the book that's cheaper? The novel only had niche appeal to begin with, and this is niche even within that niche.

The facebook post makes it seem like this is the first press, period.

A little disappointed by that, honestly. I was hoping they'd do a novel that would stand on its own merits, rather than a novelty item.
That would make no business sense at all. I just can't see them only selling this is a limited high-cost special edition, so I would expect a normal edition to follow on paperback & kindle. I have no inside knowledge at all by the way, but not doing a full release would be the dumbest idea.

This might be a test to gauge interest too. Since it has limited collector's appeal regardless, there will be fans who buy it, and the higher price may be to cover the initial cost. If it sells out quickly, that may justify the cost of a bigger run to the publisher.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on November 28, 2016, 07:20:53 AM
A kindle release at least has so little cost that it would be insane not to do that. A paperback release would have production and distribution costs, so yeah I could see the rationale for a wait-and-see approach there.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Skeever on November 28, 2016, 07:41:44 AM
This book seems like it would fit neatly into the teen sci-fi genre that is so popular these days. So, yes, if it winds up being treated like a niche release for a niche fanbase, that's a huge missed opportunity to extend the popularity of the band IMO.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on November 28, 2016, 08:21:55 AM
£75 and only 2,500 copies being made.

2500 * 75 = $187,500 gross.

Wonder how much goes to the author, the publisher, the distributor, the agent, the manager before the band get their 10% or whatever is left...

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on November 28, 2016, 08:27:48 AM
In my eyes TA was an ambitious project for DT and I think they fell short.

My main theory in that regard is that the scope of the project was just so vast that they stretched themselves too thin.
I must say, there's a danger this multilevel, multimedia novel falls into the same trap. The size of this thing already reads like a Lord of the Rings Collector Edition.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Skeever on November 28, 2016, 08:54:08 AM
I will say that DT did some interesting compositional things that I'd love to hear them revisit, just hopefully outside the context of a multimedia musical experience.

For instance, I hope they don't feel like they need to write a "musical" to justify softer ballads, interesting vocal parts and deliveries, and less traditionally structured songs. Hope they return to some of these ideas with a less "out there" lyrical concept.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 28, 2016, 09:09:09 AM
Sounds cool. Maybe we'll get to see the other places on the map. How those places fall into The Astonishing world, and the characters they'll introduce. Maybe they're the shadow figures from the video screens when they travel.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on November 28, 2016, 09:43:04 AM
I don't know what DT were planning, but I think after playing to 10 rows of fans in several venues, they said "We're hemorrhaging money, we need to bring back the fans. IAW 25th is coming up, let's tour on that."

:lol  I can guarantee that that wasn't the conversation.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ariich on November 28, 2016, 09:52:07 AM
In my eyes TA was an ambitious project for DT and I think they fell short.

My main theory in that regard is that the scope of the project was just so vast that they stretched themselves too thin.
I must say, there's a danger this multilevel, multimedia novel falls into the same trap. The size of this thing already reads like a Lord of the Rings Collector Edition.
There's certainly potential for a novelisation to be very good. I sort of agree that all the world-building was a bit too big in scope for the actual album which really only ended up covering the character story. So there should be plenty of scope to cover much more ground and produce something much deeper, narratively, and from what the author has said it sounds like JP is very open to that.

So it all depends on the execution. It could turn out incredibly corny.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on November 28, 2016, 10:27:17 AM
I don't know what DT were planning, but I think after playing to 10 rows of fans in several venues, they said "We're hemorrhaging money, we need to bring back the fans. IAW 25th is coming up, let's tour on that."

:lol  I can guarantee that that wasn't the conversation.

I must say that there have been comments with regard to some of DT's recent moves, and I'm guilty of this as well, that basically give the band zero benefit of the doubt. If The Astonishing tour was literally bankrupting them, they'd probably stop it. Petrucci and co. have been doing this crap for three decades. They know what they're doing. :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gzarruk on November 28, 2016, 11:00:07 AM
In my eyes TA was an ambitious project for DT and I think they fell short.

My main theory in that regard is that the scope of the project was just so vast that they stretched themselves too thin.
I must say, there's a danger this multilevel, multimedia novel falls into the same trap. The size of this thing already reads like a Lord of the Rings Collector Edition.
There's certainly potential for a novelisation to be very good. I sort of agree that all the world-building was a bit too big in scope for the actual album which really only ended up covering the character story. So there should be plenty of scope to cover much more ground and produce something much deeper, narratively, and from what the author has said it sounds like JP is very open to that.

So it all depends on the execution. It could turn out incredibly corny.

I know this isn't what we're talking about now, but, seeing if JP lets the author come up with his own ideas for the rest of the novel and extra details that weren't present on the album makes me wonder if he would be open to future lyric collaborations from people outside of DT for future songs/albums. I always thought they could ask Neil Peart to write lyrics for a DT song someday  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: jsbru on November 28, 2016, 11:10:27 AM
The concert I went to was basically sold out.  But that was on the first leg.  The problem with the second time around is that they already played in most of these areas.  Even if some are different cities, a lot of people traveled to see them during the first leg because they had no idea they'd be playing closer on the second leg.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on November 28, 2016, 11:19:26 AM
So glad that I got to see it twice... my favorite DT album and show after beeing a fan for close to 25 years
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on November 28, 2016, 01:01:28 PM
For instance, I hope they don't feel like they need to write a "musical" to justify softer ballads, interesting vocal parts and deliveries, and less traditionally structured songs. Hope they return to some of these ideas with a less "out there" lyrical concept.

THIS. A thousand times this.

I want them to write a 2 minutes complete song or stick a jazz outro at the end of a song because they feel like it, not because a previously planned story demands it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: As I Am on November 28, 2016, 05:02:41 PM
Quite simply, The Astonishing was a bust! NOT of "major" proportions, but when all is said and done, the album and tour was rather weak. Now, I "like" the album for what it is (although it falls well in the bottom 3 for me in their discography), but I expect a LOT more from Dream Theater. I do give them their due for following their muse and allowing JP & JR to "run" with this album. Hopefully for them, the I & W tour is a success and the next album (for me anyway) is in the vein of Train of Thought....maybe NOT as dark, but just as progressively heavy!!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on November 28, 2016, 05:33:14 PM
Quite simply, The Astonishing was a bust!

Not by any realistic standard.  Sorry, but you could not be more wrong.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on November 28, 2016, 06:07:23 PM
I think that if we could have the numbers of album sales and show attendances, we could compare more. I believe that it looks like a minus in the Mangini era (nothing to do with MM).  As for just general public opinions. it has divided their fan base more than ever before about liking the album or not. But all in all, the fan base is still about the same though for instance, I know a few guys, some are my friends, who went to the concert and they really did not like it and I'm not sure if they will ever go again.  But I also know that new people went for their first time to see DT, especially the guys taking out their girlfriend. 

If the next album is more heavy or more prog, fans will be back.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jester on November 28, 2016, 07:49:52 PM
I will just say I highly doubt that I will be buying this novel.  Getting an author is definitely needed, but the core story did little for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on November 28, 2016, 07:59:21 PM
Quite simply, The Astonishing was a bust!

Not by any realistic standard.  Sorry, but you could not be more wrong.

Between the bitching and linking of JLB performances, to a new negative thread about the novel, to comments about how unpopular the albums is, it's all just really tiring. While I understand it's critiques, personally I like the album, but there seems to be a handful of folks here that just can't get past it for some reason.

At this point, EVERY album seems to divide the fans. Discussion is one thing, but there's a constant "nagging" going on. I mean I read one theory that they are playing I&W instead of TA because TA is not going over well. Yikes. C'mon ! Let it go folks, and maybe you'll like the next album. Meanwhile TA is almost a year old and the repointing out of every wart it has is just plain exhausting.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on November 28, 2016, 08:21:55 PM
This is coming from someone who sometimes thrives on cynicism. It does begin to get exceedingly dull and predictable after a while. Every little thing is critiqued but I think it's more for self-righteous condemnation and sometimes plain old misery...

And before they chime in with their "I'm not allowed to criticize something?" defense, that isn't what I'm saying. After a while it just sounds like the same tired complaints as if nothing makes them happy. They know who they are.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on November 28, 2016, 08:45:10 PM
Well I don't judge you. I'm entitle to point out remarks. I do it with the kindest approach I  can. I know that you can carry a gun in the States but you can't criticize DT here. If my comments sounds bad, I try to balance them with the positive side. Sorry but you're making a fixation about me or anyone who dare to express what bugs him about something.

I'm an alltime huge Rush fan but sometimes they made me wonder what the heck they were doing and believe me I have said so on their forums. If some people can say a dozen of times they liked TA, I can question the success of that album or tour just like anyone.

And the way you judge people is quite a shame.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 28, 2016, 08:50:20 PM
If The Astonishing tour had a lot of shows cancelled, then maybe I'd say something. The 2ND leg failed because of the vast amount of East Coast dates that aren't far from each other.

But I don't think it failed.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gzarruk on November 28, 2016, 09:00:34 PM
Actually, both the album and the tour did very well. The only bad choice, imo, was the second US tour being so close to the previous one, it almost makes no sense. But even that is a management/promoters decision, not a band's decision, so we can't blame any of them for it, it was just a bad move by the management, they should've toured Asia first, but none of us really know all the decicions and aspects they had to consider bts, it's not that easy to plan a tour and make it happen flawlessly.

About the album itself, I just don't get people talking crap about it. I love the album and have it on my top 3, but this is a personal opinion and that's fine. The problem is when people start calling it crap or a failure instead of just saying "I didn't like it". Lots of times, people mistake personal opinion with saying whatever they want, and that's awful.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: RoeDent on November 29, 2016, 05:52:10 AM
The problem is when people start calling it crap or a failure instead of just saying "I didn't like it". Lots of times, people mistake personal opinion with saying whatever they want, and that's awful.

This. 100% completely and utterly THIS! I wish people would get it into their heads that the artists are NOT at fault when they make an album that doesn't appeal to your personal tastes. "This album sucks" or words to that effect imply that anyone who enjoys the album, thinks it's one of the best things they've ever made, is completely wrong to have that opinion. "I didn't like it" makes room for those that DO like it.

(Apologies for going slightly chaossystem on you all, but this really grinds my gears about music fans.)
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ? on November 29, 2016, 07:59:38 AM
I mean I read one theory that they are playing I&W instead of TA because TA is not going over well. Yikes. C'mon !
I'm not one of the "lol asstonishing sucks" haters, but I can't help thinking that the mediocre attendances on the 2nd US leg affected their plans, because in early October JP posted this video (https://www.facebook.com/dreamtheater/videos/10153777934577181/), where he said European and Asian fans would get one more chance to see TA live next year. Clearly the band had intended to add more dates, but for one reason or another we're getting the I&W tour instead.

For me the main problem with the album is that there's plenty of good stuff in act 1, but the music gets pretty uninteresting in the second act, which is supposed to be the climax of the story. I might forgive this if the album was short enough, but the 130-minute length doesn't make me want to revisit it, and unfortunately even the individual good tracks don't get a lot of plays from me, because they don't work that well out of context. Props to DT for going outside their comfort zone, but the result just doesn't do it for me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on November 29, 2016, 08:07:08 AM
unfortunately even the individual good tracks don't get a lot of plays from me, because they don't work that well out of context.

I find that listening to the songs in "pods" works better because I agree, a lot of the songs aren't as good stand alone given the short nature of most tracks, plus the storytelling.  But if you bundle a couple tracks together, it makes for a nice listening IMO.

examples:

Lord Nafaryus - A Savior in the Square - When Your Time has Come
A Life Left Behind - Ravenskill - Chosen
Heaven's Cove - Begin Again - The Path that Divides
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on November 29, 2016, 10:51:17 AM
I mean I read one theory that they are playing I&W instead of TA because TA is not going over well. Yikes. C'mon !
I'm not one of the "lol asstonishing sucks" haters, but I can't help thinking that the mediocre attendances on the 2nd US leg affected their plans, because in early October JP posted this video (https://www.facebook.com/dreamtheater/videos/10153777934577181/), where he said European and Asian fans would get one more chance to see TA live next year. Clearly the band had intended to add more dates, but for one reason or another we're getting the I&W tour instead.

 

OK, Thank you. Shame on me for not doing my homework on it. I guess there's been such a stream of negativity lately.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on November 29, 2016, 11:26:16 AM
Quite simply, The Astonishing was a bust!

Not by any realistic standard.  Sorry, but you could not be more wrong.

Between the bitching and linking of JLB performances, to a new negative thread about the novel, to comments about how unpopular the albums is, it's all just really tiring. While I understand it's critiques, personally I like the album, but there seems to be a handful of folks here that just can't get past it for some reason.

At this point, EVERY album seems to divide the fans. Discussion is one thing, but there's a constant "nagging" going on. I mean I read one theory that they are playing I&W instead of TA because TA is not going over well. Yikes. C'mon ! Let it go folks, and maybe you'll like the next album. Meanwhile TA is almost a year old and the repointing out of every wart it has is just plain exhausting.

Thanks for posting this. I agree. Some of the recent complaints seemed to be piling it on a little. Remember to always keep it seasoned, people! :hat
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on November 29, 2016, 11:55:53 AM
Quite simply, The Astonishing was a bust!

Not by any realistic standard.  Sorry, but you could not be more wrong.

Between the bitching and linking of JLB performances, to a new negative thread about the novel, to comments about how unpopular the albums is, it's all just really tiring. While I understand it's critiques, personally I like the album, but there seems to be a handful of folks here that just can't get past it for some reason.

At this point, EVERY album seems to divide the fans. Discussion is one thing, but there's a constant "nagging" going on. I mean I read one theory that they are playing I&W instead of TA because TA is not going over well. Yikes. C'mon ! Let it go folks, and maybe you'll like the next album. Meanwhile TA is almost a year old and the repointing out of every wart it has is just plain exhausting.

Thanks for posting this. I agree. Some of the recent complaints seemed to be piling it on a little. Remember to always keep it seasoned, people! :hat

I agree for the most part as well.  TA hit #11 on the billboard charts, that alone to me shows it's not a bust.  But I do believe the 2nd round of TA shows in NA were a bust and I won't say that I&W tour is directly due to that, but I can't help but believe that DT as a band feel they need to do something to gather more positive attention following a poor fan turnout on that second leg.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on November 29, 2016, 01:57:18 PM
Quite simply, The Astonishing was a bust!

Not by any realistic standard.  Sorry, but you could not be more wrong.

Between the bitching and linking of JLB performances, to a new negative thread about the novel, to comments about how unpopular the albums is, it's all just really tiring. While I understand it's critiques, personally I like the album, but there seems to be a handful of folks here that just can't get past it for some reason.

At this point, EVERY album seems to divide the fans. Discussion is one thing, but there's a constant "nagging" going on. I mean I read one theory that they are playing I&W instead of TA because TA is not going over well. Yikes. C'mon ! Let it go folks, and maybe you'll like the next album. Meanwhile TA is almost a year old and the repointing out of every wart it has is just plain exhausting.

Thanks for posting this. I agree. Some of the recent complaints seemed to be piling it on a little. Remember to always keep it seasoned, people! :hat

I agree for the most part as well.  TA hit #11 on the billboard charts, that alone to me shows it's not a bust.  But I do believe the 2nd round of TA shows in NA were a bust and I won't say that I&W tour is directly due to that, but I can't help but believe that DT as a band feel they need to do something to gather more positive attention following a poor fan turnout on that second leg.

I personally think the 2nd leg of TA was kind of a  mistake and that they could have gone directly with the I&W anniversary tour. But it's just me.

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jester on December 06, 2016, 02:30:27 AM
Bad news.  Doctor told me I had to cut cheese out of my diet.  So long The Astonishing.   :angel:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on December 06, 2016, 06:21:10 AM
Bad news.  Doctor told me I had to cut cheese out of my diet.  So long The Astonishing.   :angel:
:rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Azyiu on December 06, 2016, 08:31:12 AM
Bad news.  Doctor told me I had to cut cheese out of my diet.  So long The Astonishing.   :angel:

OMG  :lol  :lol  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dparrott on December 24, 2016, 01:34:46 PM
So TA gets no noms for grammy awards.  Wow. :loser:     ::)  :tdwn
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on December 24, 2016, 02:29:07 PM
Creativity and ambition get ignored, big surprise.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Bertielee on December 25, 2016, 09:44:32 AM
As if they would get a Grammy one day anyway.....

B.Lee
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 25, 2016, 11:39:37 AM
poor fan turnout on that second leg.

I really don't see it as poor turnout. If you look strictly at the numbers then sure...each venue was 1/2 to around 3/4 full depending on where they were at. BUT...they added a TON of cities to the tour. They played St. Louis this tour which they hadn't done since 2004 which immediately negated my brother and two other buddies who usually road trip to see them not to go. I have a suspicion that the fact they played more venues dotted across the country that allowed people maybe not to have to travel to them affected attendance at each venue.

It seems to me they made the choice to play to more 1/2 full crowds in lieu of limited 3/4 to full crowds. It's already been pointed out about the equipment and production of the show and that when they were done with TA tour that was it for the foreseeable future....so it looks like to me they played as many venues as they could without really caring how it'd affect attendance.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 29, 2016, 08:48:24 AM
We had a good crowd at the last show of the tour in Durham, NC.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Thematt202 on December 30, 2016, 05:11:59 AM
Almost a year down the line and the newness has definitely worn off.  I still stand by my opinion that this is the best thing they've ever released.  It's not perfect, but it has more chills down the spine moments than any other album I've ever listened to. 

I'm actually gutted that the fan reaction will probably mean that we won't get anything like this again.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: chaotic_ripper on December 30, 2016, 08:02:49 AM
Almost a year down the line and the newness has definitely worn off.  I still stand by my opinion that this is the best thing they've ever released.  It's not perfect, but it has more chills down the spine moments than any other album I've ever listened to. 

I'm actually gutted that the fan reaction will probably mean that we won't get anything like this again.

I agree with all of this! I guess I can see why so many fans may not feel the same way.  The downside to DT being so varied in their music, is that the fans are varied also. They will never be able to please everyone. But in my opinion it is their greatest work and I'm still finding new moments that I'm loving even more!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on December 30, 2016, 09:24:58 AM
I'm actually gutted that the fan reaction will probably mean that we won't get anything like this again.

Well, when everyone fell down on their knees and praised SFAM they did their most experimental and diverse album following it up, never doing a concept album again until now, so even if The Astonishing would have been received with worldwide praise I doubt the next album would have been another concept or rock opera anyway.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on December 30, 2016, 09:49:47 AM
Idea for DT14 :

Everyone in the band - all 5 members - write an album of their own songs. They then take the best songs - not necessarily an equal amount of each - just the best songs overall.

Petrucci pretty much wrote The Astonishing on his own [with Rudess also composing] - but JP came up with the idea and the characters and story and ALL the lyrics.

And it was a double album. He probably wouldn't mind doing less next time.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: noxon on December 30, 2016, 10:03:11 AM
I don't think that type of album would sound like a DT album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 30, 2016, 10:13:12 AM
Idea for DT14 :

Everyone in the band - all 5 members - write an album of their own songs. They then take the best songs - not necessarily an equal amount of each - just the best songs overall.

Petrucci pretty much wrote The Astonishing on his own [with Rudess also composing] - but JP came up with the idea and the characters and story and ALL the lyrics.

And it was a double album. He probably wouldn't mind doing less next time.

I don't think JP is willing to give up that much control.  Someone said, "I think DT is JP's solo project."  It's funny because I was just watching a Genesis documentary and someone said that about Tony Banks, that Genesis is his solo project. 

In both instances, other members contribute but on most solo project other band member contribute a lot, but in the end, you do need to have a clear leader.  Even though Mike Rutherford contributes a lot to Genesis and back in the day Peter Gabriel did too, Tony was sort of the gatekeeper. 

I think in many ways that is true for JP, at least for these last 3 albums or you could argue many before it, too. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on December 30, 2016, 10:32:24 AM
Listening to The Astonishing again to cap off 2016.

Wow, Myung's bass playing is superb. That's how you play bass with all the layered orchestration of numerous instruments.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on December 30, 2016, 10:52:05 AM
Listening to The Astonishing again to cap off 2016.

Wow, Myung's bass playing is superb. That's how you play bass with all the layered orchestration of numerous instruments.

That's what gets me with people saying Myung isn't heard. It's like, do you have ears? His bass playing is amazing in this album. Just because it's not in your face, like guitar and vocals, doesn't mean it doesn't contribute.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gzarruk on December 30, 2016, 11:27:45 AM
TA is one of their best imo. I rank it number 3 after SFAM and SDOIT.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 30, 2016, 11:43:23 AM
Almost a year down the line and the newness has definitely worn off.  I still stand by my opinion that this is the best thing they've ever released.  It's not perfect, but it has more chills down the spine moments than any other album I've ever listened to. 

I'm actually gutted that the fan reaction will probably mean that we won't get anything like this again.
Well, I also think it was fantastic, but I wouldn't want anything like this again.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on December 30, 2016, 12:31:30 PM
I don't think that type of album would sound like a DT album.

God forbid they sound different on their Fourteenth album...
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lethean on December 30, 2016, 09:06:15 PM
Almost a year down the line and the newness has definitely worn off.  I still stand by my opinion that this is the best thing they've ever released.  It's not perfect, but it has more chills down the spine moments than any other album I've ever listened to. 

I'm actually gutted that the fan reaction will probably mean that we won't get anything like this again.

I agree with all of this! I guess I can see why so many fans may not feel the same way.  The downside to DT being so varied in their music, is that the fans are varied also. They will never be able to please everyone. But in my opinion it is their greatest work and I'm still finding new moments that I'm loving even more!

Just want to chime in with my love for The Astonishing as well. Earlier in the year I thought it's appeal might wear off or fade, but it never did. Such a beautiful album and I still find myself reaching for it time and time again.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: SwedishGoose on December 31, 2016, 12:31:28 AM
It's amazing that they could create such a different and excellent album so late in their carreer... my favorite DT album
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on December 31, 2016, 04:31:15 AM
I don't think that type of album would sound like a DT album.
It doesn't have to, though.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: dtvoices94 on December 31, 2016, 07:38:08 AM
Album of the year for me.  Saw it live twice and still haven't gotten tired of listening to it.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Stewie on December 31, 2016, 09:50:48 AM
I'm very, very pleased with this album. It has been a total trip to listen to.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on December 31, 2016, 02:29:16 PM
One of the best DT albums, probably ranks 4th or 5th for me. Also one of my favorite albums of the year, along with the new Metallica and Thrice
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: CB on December 31, 2016, 03:10:33 PM
At the moment TA is one of my top 3 DT albums, together with SFAM and ADTOE. My favorites always change but I'm sure TA will always rank very high. It's also my favorite Prog/Metal album of 2016 (Fates Warning and Neal Morse 2nd). I have some small problems with parts of the story of TA, but the music and the way the band presented it on the album and live made up for that 200%. Still disappointed they didn't film it (yet).
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on December 31, 2016, 03:11:59 PM
i thought about getting The Astonishing on Vinyl but it's like £50+ brand new.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Anguyen92 on December 31, 2016, 08:54:56 PM
Well, re-listening to the Astonishing (this is probably the 3rd time that I've listened to it in full, aside from hearing the songs as their own from time to time,) and it holds up well.  I'm approaching Hymn of a Thousand Voices and I'm re-reading the concept of The Astonishing on, yes, Wikipedia and I actually shed a bit of a tear now regarding the whole people in the town coming together and singing which led to Gabriel regaining his ability to sing and bring Faythe back to life. 

The power of music is a powerful tool indeed.  So, if there's one thing that I'm glad Dream Theater brought with this album, is their ability to tell a story about how great music can be and the obstacles it goes through to be presented in its purest form, but present it in their own way through a fictional story.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 01, 2017, 04:18:17 AM
Even if The Astonishing was terrible - i'd rather they took a risk once in a while instead of putting out safe album after safe album.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TAC on January 01, 2017, 06:57:23 AM
Even if The Astonishing was terrible - i'd rather they took a risk once in a while instead of putting out safe album after safe album.

Exactly. I happen to love it, but there's no way anyone can call it DT By Numbers.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Prog Snob on January 01, 2017, 09:04:07 AM
Album of the year for me.  Saw it live twice and still haven't gotten tired of listening to it.

That's what I like to hear.  :metal

Even if The Astonishing was terrible - i'd rather they took a risk once in a while instead of putting out safe album after safe album.

Exactly. I happen to love it, but there's no way anyone can call it DT By Numbers.

DT By Numbers? That's so beyond shortsighted it's more like Critique by Numbers.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on January 01, 2017, 01:05:46 PM
Mike Mangini would love it if The Astonishing was called " Dream Theater by numbers "


:dangerwillrobinson: Did someone say "numbers?!" . Oh God I hope it's 19 and 6.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lethean on January 01, 2017, 09:39:57 PM
Well, re-listening to the Astonishing (this is probably the 3rd time that I've listened to it in full, aside from hearing the songs as their own from time to time,) and it holds up well.  I'm approaching Hymn of a Thousand Voices and I'm re-reading the concept of The Astonishing on, yes, Wikipedia and I actually shed a bit of a tear now regarding the whole people in the town coming together and singing which led to Gabriel regaining his ability to sing and bring Faythe back to life. 

The power of music is a powerful tool indeed.  So, if there's one thing that I'm glad Dream Theater brought with this album, is their ability to tell a story about how great music can be and the obstacles it goes through to be presented in its purest form, but present it in their own way through a fictional story.

This. Absolutely how I feel about the album's concept. Music has meant so much to my life and as soon as I looked at The Astonishing from that perspective, I started to appreciate the story as well as the music.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on January 03, 2017, 09:42:56 AM
Even if The Astonishing was terrible - i'd rather they took a risk once in a while instead of putting out safe album after safe album.

Yeah, really, really good point.  And it wasn't terrible by any stretch, so it is a risk that largely paid off by just about any standard you want to use.  Great post.

I'm very, very pleased with this album. It has been a total trip to listen to.

Same here.  I still have a difficult time ranking the album.  And I still feel that, because of the different nature of the album as well as its length, it may not have the staying power for me in the discography ranking.  But here's the thing...I fully expected that I would really like the album for a few months, and then it would gradually start to fall off my radar and fade away as I began looking forward to the new album.  That is the complete opposite of what happened the last two album cycles.  When the s/t came out, I was still spinning ADTOE constantly and couldn't get enough of it, and I could hardly believe a new album was almost upon us already when I wasn't even remotely tired of the previous one.  When TA came out, I felt the same way about DT12.  I fully expected that to NOT happen with TA, and expected that it would be slipping by now.  Actually, quite the opposite.  I am loving it now more than ever, and that honestly surprises me. 

To put it another way, I was thankful for the grand experiment that was The Astonishing when it came out.  And as a grand experiment so late in their career, I recognized that it is a huge accomplishment and a significant milestone.  But beyond that, I did not expect it to have a lasting musical impact on me.  Or at least, I wasn't sure that it would.  I am pleasantly surprised to find that I feel it is an important part of the musical landscape of DT's career, and I am hugely thankful that they composed this album for us to listen to and enjoy. 

Also somewhat unexpectedly, one of the things that pushed it over the edge for me was the second time I saw the live show in Reno.  That night was so unexpectedly magical.  Oddly, talking to the band after the show, I'm not sure they felt the same way from the stage.  But everyone around me in the pit and those I talked to afterwards back in the seats all thought it was a fantastic show.  I still involuntarily think back on that show when I listen to the album, and that gives a new dimension to the songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 03, 2017, 10:48:37 AM
I'm still listening to this album a lot. And though I'll try and listen to it in its entirety I still listen to all the songs.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on January 03, 2017, 11:33:03 AM
I stopped listening to it, but because of the natural cycle of listening to music and finding new stuff and new releases, not because I got bored of it. I enjoyed entirely the album and I still have it on my mp3 player just in case, I haven't removed it yet.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gzarruk on January 03, 2017, 12:39:37 PM
I stopped listening to it, but because of the natural cycle of listening to music and finding new stuff and new releases, not because I got bored of it. I enjoyed entirely the album and I still have it on my mp3 player just in case, I haven't removed it yet.

So, you still have it in your muuuuuusic plaaaaaayer  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: MirrorMask on January 03, 2017, 12:41:03 PM
Bwhahaha I didn't even think of that!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on January 03, 2017, 01:39:01 PM
I stopped listening to it, but because of the natural cycle of listening to music and finding new stuff and new releases, not because I got bored of it. I enjoyed entirely the album and I still have it on my mp3 player just in case, I haven't removed it yet.

So, you still have it in your muuuuuusic plaaaaaayer  :biggrin:

And should leave it there for in case one day in the distant future music is dead and maybe some young girl will find this MP3 player and be blessed with the gift of music....
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ReaperKK on January 03, 2017, 05:25:44 PM
Even if The Astonishing was terrible - i'd rather they took a risk once in a while instead of putting out safe album after safe album.

Exactly. I happen to love it, but there's no way anyone can call it DT By Numbers.

I gotta agree with this. I didn't like TA but I'm glad they took a chance.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Lethean on January 03, 2017, 08:42:17 PM

Same here.  I still have a difficult time ranking the album.  And I still feel that, because of the different nature of the album as well as its length, it may not have the staying power for me in the discography ranking.  But here's the thing...I fully expected that I would really like the album for a few months, and then it would gradually start to fall off my radar and fade away as I began looking forward to the new album.  That is the complete opposite of what happened the last two album cycles.  When the s/t came out, I was still spinning ADTOE constantly and couldn't get enough of it, and I could hardly believe a new album was almost upon us already when I wasn't even remotely tired of the previous one.  When TA came out, I felt the same way about DT12.  I fully expected that to NOT happen with TA, and expected that it would be slipping by now.  Actually, quite the opposite.  I am loving it now more than ever, and that honestly surprises me. 

To put it another way, I was thankful for the grand experiment that was The Astonishing when it came out.  And as a grand experiment so late in their career, I recognized that it is a huge accomplishment and a significant milestone.  But beyond that, I did not expect it to have a lasting musical impact on me.  Or at least, I wasn't sure that it would.  I am pleasantly surprised to find that I feel it is an important part of the musical landscape of DT's career, and I am hugely thankful that they composed this album for us to listen to and enjoy. 

Also somewhat unexpectedly, one of the things that pushed it over the edge for me was the second time I saw the live show in Reno.  That night was so unexpectedly magical.  Oddly, talking to the band after the show, I'm not sure they felt the same way from the stage.  But everyone around me in the pit and those I talked to afterwards back in the seats all thought it was a fantastic show.  I still involuntarily think back on that show when I listen to the album, and that gives a new dimension to the songs.

Seeing it live definitely helped me to become more obsessed with it. :)  The first leg was awesome - I loved it and felt like I couldn't have asked for any more.  It helped bring the album to life and the band was of course incredible.  But that second leg was just something else - I can't even explain how, but overall it was even better.  So I'm thankful too, for all the reasons you listed above.  And thankful I got to experience it in person - like you, I think back on the live shows when I'm listening to the album, and it definitely makes the listening experience that much better.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 03, 2017, 09:02:05 PM
Also somewhat unexpectedly, one of the things that pushed it over the edge for me was the second time I saw the live show in Reno.  That night was so unexpectedly magical.  Oddly, talking to the band after the show, I'm not sure they felt the same way from the stage.  But everyone around me in the pit and those I talked to afterwards back in the seats all thought it was a fantastic show.  I still involuntarily think back on that show when I listen to the album, and that gives a new dimension to the songs.

I will never get a chance to see Dream Theater live. But when I listened to TA, I knew already that it would translate well live because it was really written as a stage musical. That's why I was annoyingly insistent to the other posters that this is not really a concept album ala SFAM, Operation: Mindcrime, Savatage's Streets, etc. It's a musical, although sung by just a single vocalist, more akin to Jesus Christ Superstar, as pointed out by another DTF member, Sebastian. My musical theater friends liked it more than my friends who are prog fans. :lol I hope one day it would be performed with different vocalists to realize the musical's potential.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on January 04, 2017, 08:13:03 AM
My musical theater friends liked it more than my friends who are prog fans. :lol I hope one day it would be performed with different vocalists to realize the musical's potential.

I also met a couple people who were musical fans but not metal fans who enjoyed what they heard of TA.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on January 04, 2017, 08:47:52 AM
Also somewhat unexpectedly, one of the things that pushed it over the edge for me was the second time I saw the live show in Reno.  That night was so unexpectedly magical.  Oddly, talking to the band after the show, I'm not sure they felt the same way from the stage.  But everyone around me in the pit and those I talked to afterwards back in the seats all thought it was a fantastic show.  I still involuntarily think back on that show when I listen to the album, and that gives a new dimension to the songs.

I will never get a chance to see Dream Theater live. But when I listened to TA, I knew already that it would translate well live because it was really written as a stage musical. That's why I was annoyingly insistent to the other posters that this is not really a concept album ala SFAM, Operation: Mindcrime, Savatage's Streets, etc. It's a musical, although sung by just a single vocalist, more akin to Jesus Christ Superstar, as pointed out by another DTF member, Sebastian. My musical theater friends liked it more than my friends who are prog fans. :lol I hope one day it would be performed with different vocalists to realize the musical's potential.
My musical theater friends liked it more than my friends who are prog fans. :lol



You have to be kidding :rollin
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 04, 2017, 01:57:15 PM
Makes perfect sense to me.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: red barchetta on January 04, 2017, 09:19:53 PM
You're right, unfortunately.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 04, 2017, 11:26:36 PM
Also somewhat unexpectedly, one of the things that pushed it over the edge for me was the second time I saw the live show in Reno.  That night was so unexpectedly magical.  Oddly, talking to the band after the show, I'm not sure they felt the same way from the stage.  But everyone around me in the pit and those I talked to afterwards back in the seats all thought it was a fantastic show.  I still involuntarily think back on that show when I listen to the album, and that gives a new dimension to the songs.

I will never get a chance to see Dream Theater live. But when I listened to TA, I knew already that it would translate well live because it was really written as a stage musical. That's why I was annoyingly insistent to the other posters that this is not really a concept album ala SFAM, Operation: Mindcrime, Savatage's Streets, etc. It's a musical, although sung by just a single vocalist, more akin to Jesus Christ Superstar, as pointed out by another DTF member, Sebastian. My musical theater friends liked it more than my friends who are prog fans. :lol I hope one day it would be performed with different vocalists to realize the musical's potential.
My musical theater friends liked it more than my friends who are prog fans. :lol



You have to be kidding :rollin

Nope.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: PMA on January 05, 2017, 12:04:54 PM
Without having to scroll through this entire thread, is there any possibility they are going to release this on DVD/BluRay?  I'd really like to have this presented live.  I truly enjoy this release and have listened to it many times.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on January 05, 2017, 12:26:26 PM
Without having to scroll through this entire thread, is there any possibility they are going to release this on DVD/BluRay?  I'd really like to have this presented live.  I truly enjoy this release and have listened to it many times.

There's a thread for this discussion.  The short answer is we don't know but they didn't film anything so to me that means it's unlikely, but there could be something else up DT's sleeve.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on January 05, 2017, 12:35:49 PM
[relatively] short answer:  Yes, there is a possibility.  How likely, we don't know.  The Astonishing tour is done, and there are no specific plans in place to play the entire thing again.  But that doesn't mean they won't do it.  When I asked John Petrucci about it in November, he told me the plan is to focus on the I&W and Beyond tour right now, and there are no plans to do another leg for The Astonishing.  However, they are considering whether to do a one-off show for a DVD.  It is undecided.  But if they do it, they already have a city picked out that they are leaning towards.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on January 05, 2017, 02:32:19 PM
That would be awesome! I hope that comes to fruition, it would be a shame not to.  It is too good of a production and performance to let slip through the cracks..
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on January 05, 2017, 06:50:21 PM
Hope they film Chicago if they do!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on January 05, 2017, 08:39:35 PM
If they aren't doing it before the I&W tour, I don't think they'll ever do it. DT has always maintained a tight schedule. My guess is they'll go straight into working on the next album after I&W, tour for that, and The Astonishing related projects will gradually disappear.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on January 06, 2017, 01:14:45 PM
That would be awesome! I hope that comes to fruition, it would be a shame not to.  It is too good of a production and performance to let slip through the cracks..

100% agreed and the worst part is there is a huge lack of fan footage from the tour so it'll go down as the forgotten tour in history without a proper dvd.  Really sucks, but makes me really happy to have seen it twice.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on January 06, 2017, 01:47:05 PM
If they aren't doing it before the I&W tour, I don't think they'll ever do it. DT has always maintained a tight schedule. My guess is they'll go straight into working on the next album after I&W, tour for that, and The Astonishing related projects will gradually disappear.
Well, no.  I just addressed this three posts above yours.  They are NOT going to do it before the I&W tour and are still deciding whether it will work and make sense to do it immediately after. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: rumborak on January 06, 2017, 03:07:27 PM
I think it's more about the effort it would take to resurrect the whole album after many months of not playing it. That's a sizeable amount of work; of course it can be done, but DT is usually not a particularly backward-looking band, I think they would just enter the studio and go for the next album instead.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on January 06, 2017, 03:17:14 PM
I think it's more about the effort it would take to resurrect the whole album after many months of not playing it. That's a sizeable amount of work; of course it can be done, but DT is usually not a particularly backward-looking band, I think they would just enter the studio and go for the next album instead.

That's what I think too.  I think it's very possible that the I&W shows do well that the band does not look back at TA at all, including the record company who may look at a live TA album as a bad investment.  Sucks hardcore.  I really do hope they revive it for one more epic show, but I don't expect it at all.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Evai on January 06, 2017, 03:42:18 PM
I guess not having a DVD plus having next to no fan footage will give TA some kind of mystique... A kind of Space-Dye-Vest vibe of only existing in one form.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on January 06, 2017, 04:29:17 PM
I think it's more about the effort it would take to resurrect the whole album after many months of not playing it. That's a sizeable amount of work; of course it can be done, but DT is usually not a particularly backward-looking band, I think they would just enter the studio and go for the next album instead.
Yes, and JP expressed that exact sentiment.  But at the same time, he and the rest of the band also feel it is important to try to capture it, so they are leaving the door open and will decide once the I&W tour is winding down.  The distinct impression I got is that it really could go either way.  While what you are saying is dead on, keep in mind that they also have a specific city in mind, which isn't something they would have decided on if they were leaning heavily toward completely scrapping the idea.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on January 06, 2017, 04:41:14 PM
I think it's more about the effort it would take to resurrect the whole album after many months of not playing it. That's a sizeable amount of work; of course it can be done, but DT is usually not a particularly backward-looking band, I think they would just enter the studio and go for the next album instead.
Yes, and JP expressed that exact sentiment.  But at the same time, he and the rest of the band also feel it is important to try to capture it, so they are leaving the door open and will decide once the I&W tour is winding down.  The distinct impression I got is that it really could go either way.  While what you are saying is dead on, keep in mind that they also have a specific city in mind, which isn't something they would have decided on if they were leaning heavily toward completely scrapping the idea.

Yea, I think that leaves the option open for Sydney as speculated in the other thread since Australia didn't get the tour and the Opera House would be perfect for this show.  It would actually be pretty sweet if they did back to back concerts, one night TA and the next night I&W.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Evai on January 06, 2017, 05:52:04 PM
It can go either way... Hmm, that seems fitting.

Should I turn my back on TA?
Abandon all our plans for a live DVD?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mosh on January 06, 2017, 10:05:27 PM
If they aren't doing it before the I&W tour, I don't think they'll ever do it. DT has always maintained a tight schedule. My guess is they'll go straight into working on the next album after I&W, tour for that, and The Astonishing related projects will gradually disappear.
Well, no.  I just addressed this three posts above yours.  They are NOT going to do it before the I&W tour and are still deciding whether it will work and make sense to do it immediately after.
Yes I saw that post. I was not saying that I think there is any possibility of them doing it before the I&W tour. I get that they are still considering it but a lot can change in a year. By the time they've finished the I&W tour and possibly come up with music for the next album, they might no longer be interested. Fan demand could make a difference too.

Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheAtliator on January 07, 2017, 02:15:41 AM
It can go either way... Hmm, that seems fitting.

Should I turn my back on TA?
Abandon all our plans for a live DVD?


This is what their next concept album is about.

Then they'll film that one.... or will they?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Woodworker1 on January 10, 2017, 06:45:12 AM
The Astonishing is wearing well for me.  Even though I agree with some of the criticisms, the beauty of the music overpowers them.

The album keeps moving up my list the more I listen to it.  And my wife likes it as well!

In my head I made up my own version of the story.  I purposely haven't read much of the official explanation of the story for this reason.  Does anyone else do this?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on January 10, 2017, 07:22:24 AM
It's still holding up well for me too, but these days I would tend to dip in and out of it rather than listen in a full pass.

One thing that is slightly bothering me, that didn't until recently, (and once you hear it, you can't un-hear it) is the effects added to the vocals at various parts. I hesitate to say "autotune", but there's an unnatural, metallic-sounding effect that can be noticeable and distracting.

"Open eyes, let me see which choice is riiiiggghhhhttt" at the end of The Road to Revolution is a good example.

It may just be the iTunes master - I haven't heard what the original CD sounds like.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on January 10, 2017, 08:04:39 AM
Yeah theres bit of that all over the disc. Most noticable for me is at the end of Act of Faythe, the very last line. Just sounds real weird!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gzarruk on January 10, 2017, 08:18:23 AM
To me, what sounds weird are all the Daryus lines that have some sort of effect applied to the vocals. I know it's on purpose, to make it sound different than the other characters and give him a darker/heavier tone, so I understand why they did it, but sounds weird to me.

Other than that, I have no problems with the vocals on TA.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Mladen on January 10, 2017, 10:39:01 AM
One thing that is slightly bothering me, that didn't until recently, (and once you hear it, you can't un-hear it) is the effects added to the vocals at various parts. I hesitate to say "autotune", but there's an unnatural, metallic-sounding effect that can be noticeable and distracting.

"Open eyes, let me see which choice is riiiiggghhhhttt" at the end of The Road to Revolution is a good example.
I'm sure that line had to be worked on with studio trickery, but I don't think it's audible.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Evai on January 10, 2017, 11:05:21 AM
While we're nitpicking, can I just say that at 2:27 of A Life Left Behind, the word 'once' always sounds a bit weird to me  :angel:
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Logain Ablar on January 10, 2017, 11:27:17 AM
Yeah theres bit of that all over the disc. Most noticable for me is at the end of Act of Faythe, the very last line. Just sounds real weird!

"Found my wayyy". Yeah, that's another one.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: erwinrafael on January 11, 2017, 09:25:28 AM
It's still holding up well for me too, but these days I would tend to dip in and out of it rather than listen in a full pass.

One thing that is slightly bothering me, that didn't until recently, (and once you hear it, you can't un-hear it) is the effects added to the vocals at various parts. I hesitate to say "autotune", but there's an unnatural, metallic-sounding effect that can be noticeable and distracting.

"Open eyes, let me see which choice is riiiiggghhhhttt" at the end of The Road to Revolution is a good example.

It may just be the iTunes master - I haven't heard what the original CD sounds like.

I think what you are hearing is the vocal delay effect, something that you usually hear when you sing in videoke machines.  :lol There is a vocal delay effect in the whole album, which you would hear coming from the right speaker. It sounds a bit like an autotune when James sings an extended belted note because of the layering of the vocals.

I only noticed the vocal delay when I pulled the wire of my left in-ear phone which damaged it and significantly reduced its volume. The volume of the main vocals and the delay became almost the same and it was so distracting.  :lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Drinktheater on January 13, 2017, 06:42:42 AM
I love the ballads it has that Disney Musical esque vibe without the Disney thing.!!!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on January 13, 2017, 06:51:44 AM
Okay, this might sound weird to some of you but do you know what I would like them to do? Release the files for the extended (and IMO proper) versions of the NOMAC tracks from Act 1. I've checked the run times of these live against the album and none of Act 2s were extended so its clear these were cut down due to disc space.

The thing is, to me they are the true versions. I love the effects and more importantly, with Descent you get the whole "The Empire toils for you so that you can toil for the Empire" spiel which actually sets the scene a bit better.

Just the MP3 files? They clearly exist somewhere!

Or is it just me who feels this way?  :-\
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ReaperKK on January 13, 2017, 07:01:53 AM
I don't think there will be an easy way to get those files unless they release a live version of the album or perhaps you find a really good bootleg
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on January 13, 2017, 07:03:36 AM
[relatively] short answer:  Yes, there is a possibility.  How likely, we don't know.  The Astonishing tour is done, and there are no specific plans in place to play the entire thing again.  But that doesn't mean they won't do it.  When I asked John Petrucci about it in November, he told me the plan is to focus on the I&W and Beyond tour right now, and there are no plans to do another leg for The Astonishing.  However, they are considering whether to do a one-off show for a DVD.  It is undecided.  But if they do it, they already have a city picked out that they are leaning towards.

An album and show as grand as The Astonishing deserves a grand stage. For me that would be the Royal Albert Hall in London.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 13, 2017, 07:28:12 AM
I don't know what's to gain from 2 minutes of random noise as opposed to only 1 minute of random noise.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: ReaperKK on January 13, 2017, 07:34:37 AM
:lol
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on January 13, 2017, 07:39:31 AM
I just want the whole tracks dagnabbit!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on January 13, 2017, 08:22:49 AM
Okay, this might sound weird to some of you but do you know what I would like them to do? Release the files for the extended (and IMO proper) versions of the NOMAC tracks from Act 1. I've checked the run times of these live against the album and none of Act 2s were extended so its clear these were cut down due to disc space.

The thing is, to me they are the true versions. I love the effects and more importantly, with Descent you get the whole "The Empire toils for you so that you can toil for the Empire" spiel which actually sets the scene a bit better.

Just the MP3 files? They clearly exist somewhere!

Or is it just me who feels this way?  :-\
I love that bit.  It really set the stage for the story in the live setting.  But then again, I have really developed an affinity for The Hunger Games, and the fact that that spiel is SO blatantly derivative of The Hunger Games that I can't help but love it.  (same with the "song birds" line in The Gift of Music) 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: cramx3 on January 13, 2017, 09:09:42 AM
[relatively] short answer:  Yes, there is a possibility.  How likely, we don't know.  The Astonishing tour is done, and there are no specific plans in place to play the entire thing again.  But that doesn't mean they won't do it.  When I asked John Petrucci about it in November, he told me the plan is to focus on the I&W and Beyond tour right now, and there are no plans to do another leg for The Astonishing.  However, they are considering whether to do a one-off show for a DVD.  It is undecided.  But if they do it, they already have a city picked out that they are leaning towards.

An album and show as grand as The Astonishing deserves a grand stage. For me that would be the Royal Albert Hall in London.

And Devin Townsend had fart bags run across the stage of the Royal Albert Hall  :lol but seriously, that looks like a cool venue.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on January 13, 2017, 01:08:03 PM
I just want the whole tracks dagnabbit!
The request has been made and is being put through the proper channels.

FYI, the tracks they used for the live show ARE the full tracks.  So if you saw The Astonishing live, you have experienced the full NOMAC tracks.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Jinx on January 13, 2017, 01:33:58 PM
I just want the whole tracks dagnabbit!
The request has been made and is being put through the proper channels.

FYI, the tracks they used for the live show ARE the full tracks.  So if you saw The Astonishing live, you have experienced the full NOMAC tracks.


Excellent news bosk cheers!

I thought just as much, just seemed weird that all of them in Act 1 were extended from the album yet Act 2 was untouched!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fischermasamune on January 13, 2017, 03:01:38 PM
FYI, the tracks they used for the live show ARE the full tracks.  So if you saw The Astonishing live, you have experienced the full NOMAC tracks.

Descent of the NOMACs at least is different. They use a third buzz at the end when playing live.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gzarruk on January 13, 2017, 03:02:48 PM
I just want the whole tracks dagnabbit!
The request has been made and is being put through the proper channels.

FYI, the tracks they used for the live show ARE the full tracks.  So if you saw The Astonishing live, you have experienced the full NOMAC tracks.


Excellent news bosk cheers!

I thought just as much, just seemed weird that all of them in Act 1 were extended from the album yet Act 2 was untouched!

That's because Disc 1 was already full and they couldn't fit any more stuff in it. Would've been awesome, as you say, to have the extended versions and, specially, that spoken intro with the narrator. That's another good reason to release a live album for TA. Really really hope they find the time (and resources) to make it happen after the IW&B tour.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: NoseofNicko on January 19, 2017, 07:10:34 PM
Nm.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on December 14, 2017, 05:03:35 PM
Hey bosk, since they ended up scrapping the plans for a dvd, can you tell us what city they had their eye on?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on December 15, 2017, 12:35:23 PM
If they do a "one-off" Astonishing show and put the word out that it will be filmed for a dvd, there are plenty of DT fans that would get plane tix and travel to the venue. It would be a sold out show and would be an epic release! I think I would travel for that one to be part of it. I really think they should do it, it just NEEDS to happen!
 As far as the proper venue, Red Rocks amphitheater in Colarodo would be perfect.  An easy place for fans to get to from around the country. Somewhere in Japan, England, or Italy would probably guarantee a big draw too. Still hoping this even happens.
  "I watch, and I wait, and I praaayyy for an answer"   :metal
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on December 15, 2017, 12:42:41 PM
Hey bosk, since they ended up scrapping the plans for a dvd, can you tell us what city they had their eye on?

I'm going to hold off just in case they change their minds and resurrect the idea.  The plan was to do a one-off in a certain city.  I'm not sure if they had a specific venue in mind or not, but I am guessing they probably did. 
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on December 15, 2017, 04:00:50 PM
If they do a "one-off" Astonishing show and put the word out that it will be filmed for a dvd, there are plenty of DT fans that would get plane tix and travel to the venue. It would be a sold out show and would be an epic release! I think I would travel for that one to be part of it. I really think they should do it, it just NEEDS to happen!
 As far as the proper venue, Red Rocks amphitheater in Colarodo would be perfect.  An easy place for fans to get to from around the country. Somewhere in Japan, England, or Italy would probably guarantee a big draw too. Still hoping this even happens.
  "I watch, and I wait, and I praaayyy for an answer"   :metal


Totally agree - if I can fit it into my schedule, especially if its on a weekend and in North America, I would do everything in my power to get there...DT PLEASE DO THIS!!  IN VANCOUVER!!!  ;) ;D
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: smegolas on December 15, 2017, 04:06:25 PM
[relatively] short answer:  Yes, there is a possibility.  How likely, we don't know.  The Astonishing tour is done, and there are no specific plans in place to play the entire thing again.  But that doesn't mean they won't do it.  When I asked John Petrucci about it in November, he told me the plan is to focus on the I&W and Beyond tour right now, and there are no plans to do another leg for The Astonishing.  However, they are considering whether to do a one-off show for a DVD.  It is undecided.  But if they do it, they already have a city picked out that they are leaning towards.

wait...can we crowd fund this??!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: bosk1 on December 15, 2017, 04:17:20 PM
Vancouver as not the city.  But you are in the right country.   :censored
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Evai on December 15, 2017, 05:44:46 PM
Vancouver is not the city. 

Is it England?

[/stupid meme]
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Adami on December 15, 2017, 05:47:26 PM
Vancouver as not the city.  But you are in the right country.   :censored

America?
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Anguyen92 on December 15, 2017, 06:40:00 PM
Vancouver as not the city.  But you are in the right country.   :censored

It's bound to be Toronto.  I can't see it be Edmonton or Calgary or Montreal.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: gzarruk on December 15, 2017, 07:59:01 PM
I find very strange that they've never recorded a live album in Canada, since James is canadian.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Architeuthis on December 16, 2017, 05:03:47 AM
Well dang, if they do this near or in Toronto, maybe Geddy and Alex can do a guest appearance. Xanadu being an encore epic?  Doesn't hurt to dream now does it..  :eek
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Wim Kruithof on October 24, 2021, 12:05:10 PM
Had to dig quite a whole to find this buried topic, but to me surely worthwhile. Since the Astonishing is aging so well on me, the novell as well as the album, I pretend on digging through these 121 pages. Just 'cause its fun and helping me with different perspectives on the album. Especially this album, being so different then all of their discography, it wouldn't bite me to read a lot about.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 24, 2021, 12:42:54 PM
Had to dig quite a whole to find this buried topic, but to me surely worthwhile. Since the Astonishing is aging so well on me, the novell as well as the album, I pretend on digging through these 121 pages. Just 'cause its fun and helping me with different perspectives on the album. Especially this album, being so different then all of their discography, it wouldn't bite me to read a lot about.

This is the most recent thread for The Astonishing discussion. There's some good stuff in here too.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on October 24, 2021, 01:14:32 PM
I’ll never forget all the hype and mystery surrounding this album leading up to its release. Despite what you want to say about the album itself, the marketing for this one was absolutely amazing. Definitely the most fun pre-album release I’ve had since I’ve been a DT fan!
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Kotowboy on October 24, 2021, 01:49:31 PM
Much better than the " you have to be a computer programmer to figure it all out" from last time.
Title: Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
Post by: Wim Kruithof on November 24, 2021, 01:14:02 PM
I dived into the 7 hour (!) full breakdown of the Astonishing novel by Peter Orullian, on Youtube. He talks about every part of the album, the novel, the characters, the images, landscape and all that. Now was the Astonishing aging well on me already, but this definitely helps even more. I've ordered the paperback of the novel, which would arrive in a couple of weeks, while I already have the hardcover. But reading is easier in a paperback, plus that my hardcover remains as new. But I also truly hope to get a limited edition of the Astonishing, at some point.

Because after all, it might end up being my favorite of all.