Dream Theater: The Astonishing (now with moment of betrayal!)

[Outcrier]

The most 'Final Fantasy' DT has ever sounded is during Bridges in the Sky. There's one part that's literally reprising a theme from Final Fantasy VIII. 

The Landing, to be exact.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

That's the one. Couldn't remember the name.

You can't get more FF than that lol

[FusedInMetal]

I'll just leave this here.

And now for something completely different...  the band and I discussed it, we will be focusing on brand new material and putting The Earthchime Trilogy on hold indefinitely.

We start writing next week. All the great material we've worked on is going on the back burner.  Haven't spoken to our singer yet but I'm sure Hignite will be more than up to task to join us on some co-writing. No one wants to make concept albums with the same prophetic thrust.

Best,

Dietrick, Brian & Craig
---------------------

Mindcage Press Release from Blabbermouth, 2013

Coming this fall with the September 17 release date is "Our Own Devices" from Florida-based progressive metallers MINDCAGE.

Mixed and mastered by rock legend Michael Wagener (METALLICA, OZZY OSBOURNE, SKID ROW, DOKKEN, RAVEN, MEGADETH), "Our Own Devices" is a fantasy storybook set to music. Combining cultural and literary elements of steampunk, dystopian society and futuristic technologies with highly articulate progressive metal music, the album transports the listener to a world broken and needing a hero. That oppressive world is devoid of arts, creativity, light, and ultimately, humanity. But from it springs an enigmatic character, Arabella Vash, who is called to The One Constant, a group of rebels who maintain the history and teachings of the last free society.

--------------------------

Dream Theater Press Release from Blabbermouth, 2016:


"The Astonishing" paints a tale of a retro-futurist post-apocalyptic dystopia ruled by medieval style feudalism. It's a place aching for a Chosen One to rise above the noise and defeat an Empire defined by the endless drone of noise machines and the illusion of safety in bland conformity.

The band comments on "The Astonishing" artwork: "This album cover extends an ominous invitation into the retro-futurist dystopian setting of 'The Astonishing'. The deceptively beautiful yet chillingly totalitarian image is a bold harbinger of the visual components and ideas presented by the sonic story that is our most ambitious creative work to date. We are very proud to soon bring you... 'The Astonishing'."

-----------------------
Similarities include character names, story arc, drones, a chosen one freeing a totalitarian dystopia from oppression and restoring the free society, arts and music that was systematically being bred out by an oppressive empire.

The story arc and character names are just too close to OOD, and though the next two will completely turn the story inside out... it's not time to tell those tales. We will just have the boys wrote some kick ass no-frills metal... how about that?

AetherWax Music

------------------------

Read more at https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-new-song-moment-of-betrayal-available-for-streaming/#JYa2A4KPDOBHbppS.99

[Darkstarshades]

Yes, because the chosen one set to fix a dystopian future is absolutely an original and unique idea.

[Vandalism]

And so is an oppressive world devoid of arts, creativity, light, and ultimately, humanity. 

But Arabelle.......hmm maybe a coincidence that the name in both case had the same inspiration.

Which other famous real/fictional character is named Arabelle apart from Harry Potter's neighbour?

[BlobVanDam]

There's one similar character name for a character that's not even comparable.

I just had a quick look through the lyrics for this other album, and it appears to be mostly vague lyrics about oppression and breaking free and cogs? Knowing the full story/lyrics for The Astonishing, there's very little comparison. The Astonishing is a two hour story about many characters with lots of things going on, none of which is similar past the surface level summary. It's silly to compare them without even knowing how these elements fit into the narrative of The Astonishing.

I could name dozens of stories about chosen ones / dystopian futures / restoring the arts / drones, etc in science fiction/fantasy. These aren't original ideas, but they're being used to tell different stories.

[Progmetty]

I finally heard the Eddie Trunk interview.
Correct me of I'm wrong but I understood from this interview that JP and JR wrote most of the music to this album on their own and NOT in studio jamming sessions with MM and JMX as usual, if so then this just doubled my excitement for this album! Not specifically for the exclusion of MM & JM but for the fact that the album is not the product of filtering through jam sessions which I never thought was a good creative process, I believe it's best when you go into the studio having a good 90% of what's going to be on the record.

[ErHaO]

I'll just leave this here.

And now for something completely different...  the band and I discussed it, we will be focusing on brand new material and putting The Earthchime Trilogy on hold indefinitely.

We start writing next week. All the great material we've worked on is going on the back burner.  Haven't spoken to our singer yet but I'm sure Hignite will be more than up to task to join us on some co-writing. No one wants to make concept albums with the same prophetic thrust.

Best,

Dietrick, Brian & Craig
---------------------

Mindcage Press Release from Blabbermouth, 2013

Coming this fall with the September 17 release date is "Our Own Devices" from Florida-based progressive metallers MINDCAGE.

Mixed and mastered by rock legend Michael Wagener (METALLICA, OZZY OSBOURNE, SKID ROW, DOKKEN, RAVEN, MEGADETH), "Our Own Devices" is a fantasy storybook set to music. Combining cultural and literary elements of steampunk, dystopian society and futuristic technologies with highly articulate progressive metal music, the album transports the listener to a world broken and needing a hero. That oppressive world is devoid of arts, creativity, light, and ultimately, humanity. But from it springs an enigmatic character, Arabella Vash, who is called to The One Constant, a group of rebels who maintain the history and teachings of the last free society.

--------------------------

Dream Theater Press Release from Blabbermouth, 2016:


"The Astonishing" paints a tale of a retro-futurist post-apocalyptic dystopia ruled by medieval style feudalism. It's a place aching for a Chosen One to rise above the noise and defeat an Empire defined by the endless drone of noise machines and the illusion of safety in bland conformity.

The band comments on "The Astonishing" artwork: "This album cover extends an ominous invitation into the retro-futurist dystopian setting of 'The Astonishing'. The deceptively beautiful yet chillingly totalitarian image is a bold harbinger of the visual components and ideas presented by the sonic story that is our most ambitious creative work to date. We are very proud to soon bring you... 'The Astonishing'."

-----------------------
Similarities include character names, story arc, drones, a chosen one freeing a totalitarian dystopia from oppression and restoring the free society, arts and music that was systematically being bred out by an oppressive empire.

The story arc and character names are just too close to OOD, and though the next two will completely turn the story inside out... it's not time to tell those tales. We will just have the boys wrote some kick ass no-frills metal... how about that?

AetherWax Music

------------------------

Read more at https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-new-song-moment-of-betrayal-available-for-streaming/#JYa2A4KPDOBHbppS.99

There is a reason why people in this thread frequently say the concept is cookie cutter scifi cheese. That is because it is. In the end it is the execution that matters. If all artists were cancelling their plans because something with a similar premise is coming, we would rarely get any material at all. Be it musically or lyrically.

[DragonGuitar]

^^ +1.

I don't care that much about the story; I never expected it to be particularly original, and I don't think music is the best medium for storytelling anyway. If the guys had an insanely cool original story I would rather see a movie or read a book about it anyway rather than vaguely try to sort it out by listening to the lyrics of an album. I listen to music for the music, which is emotionally expressive (I believe people enjoy music because it is emotional, whatever that emotion is). And if a story helps to make the vocals more expressive, then that's great, plus its a prog tradition . But yeah, JLB's lyrics in the gift of music on the part where he says "people just don't have the time for music anymore" were great IMO, really got me.

[ariich]

Suggesting that DT is copying Mindcage rather than copying Rush's 2112 is quite funny.

[Bertielee]

Suggesting that DT is copying Mindcage rather than copying Rush's 2112 is quite funny.

That, and frankly, FusedInMetal, welcome to 2015. We've known for a long time the concet behind the Astonishing is : 1-hackneyed 2-cheesy as fuck. That doesn't make it less interesting. Btw, dystopias have existed for a long time in literature, it's not an invention of the musical world.

B.Lee

[Panar]

Another DT related conspiracy

[BlobVanDam]

Suggesting that DT is copying Mindcage rather than copying Rush's 2112 is quite funny.

That, and frankly, FusedInMetal, welcome to 2015. We've known for a long time the concet behind the Astonishing is : 1-hackneyed 2-cheesy as fuck. That doesn't make it less interesting. Btw, dystopias have existed for a long time in literature, it's not an invention of the musical world.

B.Lee

It's not new to cinema either. Incidentally, the story shares commonalities with the 1927 film Metropolis (no connection with the DT song/album of the same name).

That doesn't mean these things are alike. In fact, it shows that the same basic ideas can be used to tell different stories without any issue.

Another DT related conspiracy

It just wouldn't be a DT album without an empty accusation of inspiration.

[ariich]

That doesn't mean these things are alike. In fact, it shows that the same basic ideas can be used to tell different stories without any issue.

Bingo.

[KevShmev]

Correct me of I'm wrong but I understood from this interview that JP and JR wrote most of the music to this album on their own and NOT in studio jamming sessions with MM and JMX as usual, if so then this just doubled my excitement for this album! Not specifically for the exclusion of MM & JM but for the fact that the album is not the product of filtering through jam sessions which I never thought was a good creative process, I believe it's best when you go into the studio having a good 90% of what's going to be on the record.

I believe it's best to just let the creativity flow whenever it hits you.  Creativity cannot be put on a schedule; it just happens naturally.  If one member has something hit him one night when he is at home, I believe it's best for the band if he can bring it into the studio and say, "Check this out," and boom, a song happens because of it.  Many of the best rock songs ever happen that way, and it seems like Dream Theater got stuck in that "everything has to be written in the studio together" rut for too many years.  On the flip side, I know it can be argued that some of their best material came about that way, and that is fine; it just proves my point that there is no one "only" correct way when it comes to writing a song.

[AngelBack]

I'm done with these copycats.  I just found out they used the same 13 notes on TA   that some other bands have used.  Gonna go listen to Dragonforce......

[rumborak]

Suggesting that DT is copying Mindcage rather than copying Rush's 2112 is quite funny.

That, and frankly, FusedInMetal, welcome to 2015. We've known for a long time the concet behind the Astonishing is : 1-hackneyed 2-cheesy as fuck. That doesn't make it less interesting. Btw, dystopias have existed for a long time in literature, it's not an invention of the musical world.

B.Lee

That may be true, but I still think it's lamentable that the back story already seems to suffer from so many issues before we have even seen it. DT has been accused of WWRD so many times over their career, you'd think they would stay from it for this ambitious project. I was talking to two friends of mine yesterday at the Queensryche concert, and I laid out the TA story to them. They both burst out laughing, and I was asked "it doesn't take place in the 22nd century by any chance, does it?" to which I had to reply "yeah, it does".
I mean, those two guys used to be DT fans (up until 6DOIT), and I'm sure I could have piqued their interest with a solid, original story to the album. As it is, now it's in their head as a 2112 knockoff. Why would DT knowingly run into this?

[rab7]

Suggesting that DT is copying Mindcage rather than copying Rush's 2112 is quite funny.

That, and frankly, FusedInMetal, welcome to 2015. We've known for a long time the concet behind the Astonishing is : 1-hackneyed 2-cheesy as fuck. That doesn't make it less interesting. Btw, dystopias have existed for a long time in literature, it's not an invention of the musical world.

B.Lee

That may be true, but I still think it's lamentable that the back story already seems to suffer from so many issues before we have even seen it. DT has been accused of WWRD so many times over their career, you'd think they would stay from it for this ambitious project. I was talking to two friends of mine yesterday at the Queensryche concert, and I laid out the TA story to them. They both burst out laughing, and I was asked "it doesn't take place in the 22nd century by any chance, does it?" to which I had to reply "yeah, it does".

But 2285 is in the 23rd century...

[rumborak]

Oh crap, I thought it was 2185. Either way, it doesn't make too much of a difference with my overall point. Is there anyone here who didn't immediately say "oh, 2112" when they heard the back story?
I mean, same thing with the map. They're trying to create a self-contained universe in which their story plays, but then they make the map a knockoff of the Greater New England area (G.N.E.A.), by just badly modifying the names. It's just, it almost strikes me as intentional sabotage. This stuff will dominate the reviews and many peoples' perception of the album.

[thosava]

I thought of it too, but if the concept is original enough in it's characters and other plot points i think it'll be cool. The setting is kind of familiar, but the plot doesn't have to be. I'm just hoping Gabriel didn't find his guitar in a cave 

[Wubbagubba]

Honestly, I have no problem with the rehashed story. It is a bit silly, but the music is my first focus, then the story. I'm curious to see what DT does with the dystopian future setting, because it seems much more fleshed out than 2112 and the like.

Now I have a question for anyone that's heard some or all of the album. If it's mostly ballads, are any of them on the level The Spirit Carries On is? That's one of my all time favorite DT songs.

[jvelvet3]

Speaking of which, what were the 9 songs included in the promo of the album (if that can be answered)?

With all that has been revealed by this point, I don't see why not.  I mean, we have reviews that discuss the tracks.  So I will include a bit of detail.
1.  Descent of the NOMACS -- NOMAC noise as an intro to the album.  It makes sense.  Not a big, bombastic opening.  Just sound effects to set the stage.
2.  Dystopian Overture -- This is the true "opening" of the album.  What can I say?  It is an overture.  DT have written some nice overtures, and this may just be their best.  Lots of interesting new sounds I am not used to hearing from DT.  The choir really adds a lot to the atmosphere.
3.  The Gift of Music -- You all have heard it.
4.  Lord Nafaryus -- Oh, just...YES!  Nice military march-y type theme going throughout.  Very appropriate to the subject matter.  There is a palpable Queen influence here, especially in the vocal department.  It is big.  It is grand sounding.  It is just a lot of fun.
5.  A Savior in the Square - When Your Time Has Come -- LOTS of really cool parts in this one.  This is one of those songs that has cool themes show up, and then moves on to something else.  It does that frequently, but seamlessly.  Really nice track from start to finish.  And, for this album, a long track.  The opening, to me, has a Count of Tuscany vibe.
6.  Chosen -- Soaring ballad with great vocals and piano work.  For the most part, I prefer DT's heavier songs to their "ballady" type songs.  But they have written some incredibly strong ones in the Mangini era, and this is another one.
7.  Moment of Betrayal -- You all have heard this one, too.  I really like it.  Piano, dat riff!, ...soaring vocals from James.  Yeah, it just works.
8.  The Path That Divides -- Major plot point seems to happen here.  I can tell that even without having the whole story.  The music is dark and moody.  Nice track.
9.  Our New World -- Major ear worm.  Many will have the chorus stuck in their heads the week after release, I guarantee it.

Every time I watch the trailer, I get the "Our new world!" part stuck in my head. Looking forward to hearing the whole song.

Me

[Enigmachine]

It seems that the plot is still being criticised before the album actually comes out.

Oh crap, I thought it was 2185. Either way, it doesn't make too much of a difference with my overall point. Is there anyone here who didn't immediately say "oh, 2112" when they heard the back story?
I mean, same thing with the map. They're trying to create a self-contained universe in which their story plays, but then they make the map a knockoff of the Greater New York area, by just borrowing the names. It's just, it almost strikes me as intentional sabotage. This stuff will dominate the reviews and many peoples' perception of the album.

I did notice the similarities with 2112, but the comparison is a bit overstated. I'm not sure there's any sabotage going on here either. Is there anything wrong with taking direct inspiration from real life places and altering them in a fun way? If people allow this to affect their opinion on the album, so be it.

[noxon]

Eh, it's always been stated that the story takes place on our earth, in our future. the reason for the map being northern america "ripoff" is because it's exactly what it it is, it is northern america. JP even stated himself that one of the things that interested him was how the world just changes over time, how names evolve over time. I don't see why this is bad??

Also, this story is NOTHING like 2112. If anything, it's a standard "hero's journey" story, it's main theme is actually family and love. The whole "dystopian future" and "chosen one" stuff is just set dressing.

[rab7]

Oh crap, I thought it was 2185. Either way, it doesn't make too much of a difference with my overall point. Is there anyone here who didn't immediately say "oh, 2112" when they heard the back story?
I mean, same thing with the map. They're trying to create a self-contained universe in which their story plays, but then they make the map a knockoff of the Greater New England area (G.N.E.A.), by just badly modifying the names. It's just, it almost strikes me as intentional sabotage. This stuff will dominate the reviews and many peoples' perception of the album.

Petrucci said in am interview he set it 300 years in the future so the geography of America could plausibly have some changes. GNEA seems like a knockoff because it actually is the northeast united states

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Oh crap, I thought it was 2185. Either way, it doesn't make too much of a difference with my overall point. Is there anyone here who didn't immediately say "oh, 2112" when they heard the back story?
I mean, same thing with the map. They're trying to create a self-contained universe in which their story plays, but then they make the map a knockoff of the Greater New England area (G.N.E.A.), by just badly modifying the names. It's just, it almost strikes me as intentional sabotage. This stuff will dominate the reviews and many peoples' perception of the album.

I don't get why those are bad things, and why would the locations of the story will play a big role in people's perception of the album.

[Thematt202]

Now I have a question for anyone that's heard some or all of the album. If it's mostly ballads, are any of them on the level The Spirit Carries On is? That's one of my all time favorite DT songs.

Every time I've asked something similar (well, whether there's any epic TSCO style guitar solos), I've been ignored... Doesn't bode well. 

[noxon]

I generally ignore any question that are of the style "are there any X's that are similar to Y's".

i mean, it's an impossible question to answer, as I don't know what qualities you're looking for. Are there any copies of the TSCO solo? Of course not. Are there any good guitar solos? OF COURSE!

[Kotowboy]

He probably means big ballads that start soft and have a crescendo. Usually diatonic Chords like G - Em - C - D etc etc...

Something like that.

[MegaDTSX]

Can someone that has heard the full album at a listening party or whatever answer one very simple question for me, if possible?


The sound of Jordan's keys/the patch he uses during the dual JR/JP solo at the end of Gift of Music:  is that the sound the NOMACs make?

[noxon]

No.

[MegaDTSX]

No.

Thanks man!

[Ben_Jamin]

I'm excited about seeing it live.

I understand now what JP means. As I said in the encore song thread in the concert section, We are going to see The Astonishing live show not a Dream Theater show.

[SwedishGoose]

I'm excited about seeing it live.

I understand now what JP means. As I said in the encore song thread in the concert section, We are going to see The Astonishing live show not a Dream Theater show.

Yes it's going to be totally special... can't wait for the 1st and 2nd of March

[Ben_Jamin]

I'm excited about seeing it live.

I understand now what JP means. As I said in the encore song thread in the concert section, We are going to see The Astonishing live show not a Dream Theater show.

Yes it's going to be especially special... can't wait for the 1st and 2nd of March

FTFY