Dream Theater: The Astonishing (now with moment of betrayal!)

[RMGadelha]

We definitely need more imperial characters. I'm a little biased considering that I chose the GNE xD

[Bertie_Wooster]

I wonder what JP thinks about this?   

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-future-of-music-a-chip-in-your-brain-1449505111

[jsbru]

If anything, those sound, at most like they are inspired by Ethical Humanism.  "Surrender to Reason" is like an admission that they're NOT faith-based.  Pretty much by definition, it takes the suspension of reason to maintain faith.

If I had to bet, I'd put my money on the fact that those lyrics pretty explicitly describe a pagan/agnostic set of ethics.

I always saw that as a contradiction. Reason is often associated with the Age of Enlightenment, and is emphasizing the rational world and is to some degree "anti religion". But letting angels and grace lead the way, is the exact opposite of surrendering to reason.

Well the debate over whether reason and believing in a greater power are mutually exclusive is definitely a heated one, and many have different opinions on it. And to a point it becomes semantics - some have different definition of "reason" and "faith" from others it seems. Maybe Myung meant something different by those words? Anyways not meaning to open up this debate, as this isn't the right sub-forum for it

It can be a heated one, as this debate has been going on in ethical/religious/political philosophy circles for at least 800 years now.  Thomas Aquinas wrote a lot about it in the 11th Century, but even the Catholic Church's view is that faith and reason occupy somewhat separate spheres in the universe, so there's no need to fully or even partially integrate faith within the realm of reason.

Myung's lyrics are a bit confusing, I guess, because the word "grace" has a more general virtuous meaning, but it's also used in Christianity a lot.  "Love" leading the way seems like pure ethical humanism to me, though.  And so does "Surrender to Reason."

They could be trying to convey a religious message, but it's definitely not clear.

[Kotowboy]

I wonder what JP thinks about this?   

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-future-of-music-a-chip-in-your-brain-1449505111

iTunes downloads directly to your cerebral cortex. Then you get arrested for piracy because you paid for and listened to music that is copyrighted ! !


They've made it illegal to rip CDs to your smartphone / computers again which surely renders all MP3 players illegal too ?

[TL]

Taking bets now; on the album, will Evangeline's name be pronounced correctly, or the anglicized way? 

[Nomaniac]

If anything, those sound, at most like they are inspired by Ethical Humanism.  "Surrender to Reason" is like an admission that they're NOT faith-based.  Pretty much by definition, it takes the suspension of reason to maintain faith.

If I had to bet, I'd put my money on the fact that those lyrics pretty explicitly describe a pagan/agnostic set of ethics.

I always saw that as a contradiction. Reason is often associated with the Age of Enlightenment, and is emphasizing the rational world and is to some degree "anti religion". But letting angels and grace lead the way, is the exact opposite of surrendering to reason.

Well the debate over whether reason and believing in a greater power are mutually exclusive is definitely a heated one, and many have different opinions on it. And to a point it becomes semantics - some have different definition of "reason" and "faith" from others it seems. Maybe Myung meant something different by those words? Anyways not meaning to open up this debate, as this isn't the right sub-forum for it

It can be a heated one, as this debate has been going on in ethical/religious/political philosophy circles for at least 800 years now.  Thomas Aquinas wrote a lot about it in the 11th Century, but even the Catholic Church's view is that faith and reason occupy somewhat separate spheres in the universe, so there's no need to fully or even partially integrate faith within the realm of reason.

Myung's lyrics are a bit confusing, I guess, because the word "grace" has a more general virtuous meaning, but it's also used in Christianity a lot.  "Love" leading the way seems like pure ethical humanism to me, though.  And so does "Surrender to Reason."

They could be trying to convey a religious message, but it's definitely not clear.

And in that regard, to the credit of an earlier point I made, I think when DT writes stuff like this, they really leave it to the listener to apply their own meaning to it. Is it religious? Is it ethical humanism? Well, it seems like it's almost up to you to draw that conclusion. And that's one of the things I love about Dream Theater!

Let's go to the opposite instance. Take ITNOG for example. It talks about the horrors committed in the name of God, but at the end it really asks you whether following faith itself causes this or not. It's up to you to decide that. Well, similar with Surrender To Reason, it's up to you to interpret whether these things are religious or just simply talking about Grace, Love, and metaphorical angels from a secular point of view. My theory is that they try to touch on these topics yet let the listener decide on them purposely.

Of course that's all speculation . . . but it makes sense to my mind considering what I've heard. Anyways, whether intentional or not, DT's lyrics can be fitted to suit whatever world view you come from a lot of the time, and that's why they rock

[Nomaniac]

Anyways, back to The Astonishing

[Darkstarshades]

I want the album to be played at least once in Mexico.
I'll gather a group of fans and send petitions if Mexico is not planned, at least one show.

[Nomaniac]

I don't see why they wouldn't . . . they did on their last two album-supporting tours

[bosk1]

Taking bets now; on the album, will Evangeline's name be pronounced correctly, or the anglicized way? 

Well, given that it is an American band and that the story takes place in North America, I'm not really sure why this is even a question. 

[Darkstarshades]

I don't see why they wouldn't . . . they did on their last two album-supporting tours

Fairly sure it will... I hope.
The thing is the show is apparently too complex, and many of the national venues they use aren't suited for what I think they intend to do.

Whathever, they didn't play SFAM here, tho.

[TL]

Taking bets now; on the album, will Evangeline's name be pronounced correctly, or the anglicized way? 

Well, given that it is an American band and that the story takes place in North America, I'm not really sure why this is even a question. 

Oh, I'm pretty sure I already know the answer.     It would just be nice to be pleasantly surprised.

Edit: (Plus, the name actually originated in North America, as a character in French Canadian folk lore back in the 16/1700s) [/pedantic]

[RMGadelha]

Taking bets now; on the album, will Evangeline's name be pronounced correctly, or the anglicized way? 

Well, given that it is an American band and that the story takes place in North America, I'm not really sure why this is even a question. 

As a South American, I wonder if they'll mention something further down, since It's the Great Northern Empire of the AmericaS, even though the map shows that it will probably be restricted to that area.

[arkdtmp]

I'm kinda new here, but is bosk1 (the incredibly awesome admin-I love his posts) the same guy as Weymolith aka Mr. Beardsley?

Thanks!

[sfam2112]

I'm kinda new here, but is bosk1 (the incredibly awesome admin-I love his posts) the same guy as Weymolith aka Mr. Beardsley?

Thanks!

Nope. bosk1 is his own person. But, you may also find the wookie somewhere around here sometimes, as well.

[BlackInk]

"Let love show the way
Let grace be the way
Surrender to reason"

"To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain
When you surrender to the light
You can face the darkest days
If you open up your eyes
And you put your trust in love
On those cold and endless nights
You will never be alone"

Those are two examples of passages I'd define as pretty preachy.

If anything, those sound, at most like they are inspired by Ethical Humanism.  "Surrender to Reason" is like an admission that they're NOT faith-based.  Pretty much by definition, it takes the suspension of reason to maintain faith.

If I had to bet, I'd put my money on the fact that those lyrics pretty explicitly describe a pagan/agnostic set of ethics.

Not sure if your points are directed at me specifically, but just for the record; I also don't think there's anything religious about those passages and agree with what you're saying.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

So I was just browsing through the Metal Archives and came across the TA page: https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Dream_Theater/The_Astonishing/548518.

"When Your Time Has Come -- 08:21"

Did I miss this? Do we know this? Should we know this?

[V_R11]

So I was just browsing through the Metal Archives and came across the TA page: https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Dream_Theater/The_Astonishing/548518.

"When Your Time Has Come -- 08:21"

Did I miss this? Do we know this? Should we know this?

This is also giving out info on which songs are instrumentals. Did I miss something or is that new info ?

[BlobVanDam]

So I was just browsing through the Metal Archives and came across the TA page: https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Dream_Theater/The_Astonishing/548518.

"When Your Time Has Come -- 08:21"

Did I miss this? Do we know this? Should we know this?

This is also giving out info on which songs are instrumentals. Did I miss something or is that new info ?

It's based on which tracks are marked with the NOMAC symbol on the official page, but I think it's probably conjecture that those indicate instrumental tracks. As far as I know, we don't know exactly what those tracks will entail yet, but apparently they'll be different enough in some way to warrant being noted on the tracklist.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

So I was just browsing through the Metal Archives and came across the TA page: https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Dream_Theater/The_Astonishing/548518.

"When Your Time Has Come -- 08:21"

Did I miss this? Do we know this? Should we know this?

This is also giving out info on which songs are instrumentals. Did I miss something or is that new info ?

It's based on which tracks are marked with the NOMAC symbol on the official page, but I think it's probably conjecture that those indicate instrumental tracks. As far as I know, we don't know exactly what those tracks will entail yet, but apparently they'll be different enough in some way to warrant being noted on the tracklist.

Yeah, agreed on that.

[Thematt202]

They've taken the WYTHC track length from one of the fake YouTube leaks.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

Ahh, okay then. Man, I wish people'd be more careful with this stuff. Like, wait for an official release from the band before you go editing album info on popular sites.

[Frankgate]

They've taken the WYTHC track length from one of the fake YouTube leaks.

exactly
i find this way of faking music so foolish, especially when "unknown artists" try to attract attention by using a famous name

[Lowdz]

I wonder what JP thinks about this?   

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-future-of-music-a-chip-in-your-brain-1449505111

The nomacs must be destroyed.

[MegaDTSX]

My prediction is that Faythe is of the Empire (maybe Nafaryus' own daughter), but is sympathetic to the rebels, possibly being a lover to one of the rebel characters.

She wanted a 5 year break from the Empire but they told her no wayeth my dear.

[RoeDent]

Those times are certainly incorrect. With those lengths, Act 1 is well over 90 minutes, impossible to put on 1 CD.

Removed them myself until we have proper confirmation. Don't want people's hopes raised.

[Peter Mc]

Not saying you're wrong and we should definitely wait for confirmation but who says the whole of Act 1 is on one cd?

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Not saying you're wrong and we should definitely wait for confirmation but who says the whole of Act 1 is on one cd?

The promo pics on the pre-order page showing the front face of the CD's and album art have "Act I" and "II" on separate discs.



Kinda hard to see though.

Plus, Amazon has the Act II tracks separating into "Disc 2".

[RoeDent]

EDIT: Ah. Ninja'd. You can see it a bit clearer if you click on "view larger".

[Peter Mc]

Can't actually see that but I'll take your word for it. Obviously makes sense that it would be split that way but just hadn't seen it confirmed. I'll get my coat!

[fadetoblackdude7]

Looks like it'll be a digipack, first album to not be in the standard jewel case (excluding special editions)

[ResultsMayVary]

The double album has already been confirmed through several outlets, but it's awesome to see it shown through the pre-order packages. Very excited. And I'm still shocked that we're just 7 weeks away from the release date.

It makes me wonder if this is the closest to the release date that we've gotten information about an album.

[wolfking]

I hope the fucking booklet isn't stuck to the packaging.

[erwinrafael]

Is Arhys pronounced as Aris or Arise?

[The Astonished]

I always pronounce Arhys has Ar-hees.

It could be fun to speculate on the songs' and acts' length. I'm gonna be a little bit optimistic and say there's 65-70 minutes on each act. As for the songs... If it's gonna be like BG's "Nightfall...", then there's still room for a handfull of 7-10 minute songs on each act. My guess is that "Astonishing" will be the only track that's longer than 12 minutes, and that "The road to revolution" is longer than 10 minutes.

Now, if the majority of the song's length will be shorter or two minutes away from The Gift of Music, then things will get interesting. That's a LOT of actual tracks. But here's what I think is the case:

Act 1 will contain shorter tracks for the most part. I'm talking 4 to 6 minutes, maybe 7, with a "short" epic. Act 2 will have longer songs. Entracte, Machine Chatter and Power Down brings the actual song count of Act 2 to a freely 11 tracks, (leaving room to make "Astonishing" by far the longest song on TA) which is about the average for a Dream Theater album that is not overrun with long ass songs.

Now if the NOMAC symbols will also be actual instrumental songs (3 min?), then... I don't know anymore. January 29th is not that far away and I can wait to blast this monster along with the new Avantasia, Serenity and Primal Fear.