How do you rate Mangini's work on the latest album?

[LKap13]

10 being the best, 1 the worst, now that some time has passed how do you rate MM's drumming on the latest DT album?

[Bolsters]

10 being the best, 1 the worst, now that some time has passed how do you rate MM's drumming on DT14?

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

He's been going downhill since DT13, imo.

[genome]

His drumming was so good that it ripped a hole in space time and appeared on their 14th album instead of this one.

[Podaar]

I voted for his work on DT12. Am I doing it right?

[The Stray Seed]

9!!!! It's beyond awesome but I know he will do even better than this!!

[Tom Bombadil]

I'm really not big on DT12, but I have to admit the drumming is very good. Gave it 8.

[CharlesPL]

8

[AngelBack]

The drumming is stellar and shows how MM plays WITH each member rather than just playing to the song or beat.  HOWEVER, the mix is still off, too low and the cymbals still sound a little thin to me.

The one complaint with his style is I would like to hear a little more closed high hat or more complex high hat work.  That is the only part of his game that I think MP is clearly a more interesting drummer, at least IMO.

[jakepriest]

6 at best. There is no feel in the drums, just very fast ambidextrous fills. Nothing tasty that stands out. The horrible mix and drum sounds don't help either.

ADToE I would rate 9, DT12 is an average 6.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

6 at best. There is no feel in the drums, just very fast ambidextrous fills. Nothing tasty that stands out. The horrible mix and drum sounds don't help either.

ADToE I would rate 9, DT12 is an average 6.

Disagree. There's tons of taste in DT12, it gave me the diabeetus.

[manticore999]

6 at best. There is no feel in the drums, just very fast ambidextrous fills. Nothing tasty that stands out. The horrible mix and drum sounds don't help either.

ADToE I would rate 9, DT12 is an average 6.

This.  I would give him a 10 for technical proficiency, but a 6 for creativity/soul.  I think he's more skilled in playing than Portnoy, but Portnoy (to me) created more interesting drum parts. 

[Tis BOOLsheet]

I gave a 10. He's done everything I hoped he would and has been as fantastic as I thought he would. The drumming on DT12 is excellent. It fits the band like a glove and is a breath of fresh air. I love the drum parts in DT12.

Not only that but he brings an extra dimension to drums that was never in DT before. He's elevated the musicianship of the band to new heights. He's opened up new creative possibilities. The band is making some of their best music ever since he joined and the drum parts fit perfectly into the bigger picture (puns intended). The band not only retained their signature sound but their rhythm section is now a 2.0 version of what it was before. A sound that was growing old and tiring for years has been injected with steroids and new life.

He is by FAR better in literally every single aspect of playing the drums and the drumming on DT12 is a perfect complement to the songs that were written.

[Kotowboy]

7 or 8 - he plays to the music but goes crazy when needed.

[LKap13]

It's very interesting to see such high marks for MM on DT12. I feel like I'm missing something, or need to sit down and isolate the drums a bit better; otherwise it's hard for me to pick up on anything interesting that he's doing. Not to bash, but purely for my own appreciation, can you guys list some moments from DT12 that are MM standout-moments and display his compositional creativity?

[rumborak]

I put him at a 6. There's no doubt about his skills, but I think  I was hoping maybe for that "next level" he would take DT to rhythmically. And actually, rhythmically DT has gotten simpler with the last two albums. MP had a great way of inverting rhythms, that's something MM apparently doesn't do.

[Invisible]

He is by FAR better in literally every single aspect of playing the drums and the drumming on DT12 is a perfect complement to the songs that were written.

While I love his drumming, he is not better in every aspect, some of MP hi-hat cymbal whatever work is somehow missing.

I still gave it a 10, not because of some particular moment but because he does everything I expect from a drummer and he does it perfectly. The band never sounded tighter IMHO. If the mix was better I think we could've appreciated it more.

[BlobVanDam]

I'll give him a 7. Technically great, but there's not a lot of feel in there (probably mostly due to the mix), and there are a lot of his rhythm choices that I thought could have been better chosen for the song.
Definitely a step up from ADTOE where he wasn't fully involved from day 1, but I'm hoping the band can mix things up more for the next album.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

It's very interesting to see such high marks for MM on DT12. I feel like I'm missing something, or need to sit down and isolate the drums a bit better; otherwise it's hard for me to pick up on anything interesting that he's doing. Not to bash, but purely for my own appreciation, can you guys list some moments from DT12 that are MM standout-moments and display his compositional creativity?

What do you mean by "interesting"? And does something that is not "interesting" mean that you don't really enjoy it necessarily? I would be happy to list some moments that I personally enjoy from the album (and the previous one) but I don't know how many people will consider them "interesting" since the understanding of that word usually includes some degree of complexity-- theory or rhythmic.

I think the drumming on TLG is really great. There is a lot of cool cymbal work particularly during the pre-chorus ("you are caught up in your gravity....") especially during the last one.

The "intro" drumming with the guitar in TEI I think is perfect for that song and was intended to be one of his "standout" moments...insofar as a drummer can have one that is not a solo.

Another part that shows great musical awareness is during the TBP guitar solo. The drums plays a simple groove for the first 8 bars and builds in intensity the next 8 as the guitar solo shifts to the next octave. I thought that showed great musicality; to understand what the soloist is doing and compliment him with your playing is probably not what a lot of people are going to call "interesting" but I think it's a cornerstone of great musicianship. In drumming, one of the most important things is making the OTHER guys sound better. Also, I love the drum fills during this section.

As far as "compositional creativity" is concerned I think you have to be more specific about how you define "creativity." If you're looking for drumming that is going to create a new prog-metal era or revolutionize the instrument, I think you're probably not going to find it. But I think there are tons of creative parts (not just technical ones) throughout both albums. Keep in mind the overall direction of the album. They wanted a more stripped down album than in times past. When the album was initially being reviewed people were saying it was more "mainstream" than their previous ones. Obviously whatever MM does on the drums is going to compliment this vision and work within the framework. It would be very odd to hear exotic polyrhythms and time signatures in almost any of the songs on DT12.

On another note, I think there is one thing that MM could do more of (as time goes on), that MP did really well: sharing his song parts with the fans on a more personal level. Over the years MP went in-depth in videos about his drumming (see Honor Thy Father video intro, for example), doing instructional videos, clinics and setting up drum cams for every studio song. Marco also does similar things and it really lets the fans pick up on things that might go over their head. Mike M. does a little of it but his clinics are not available to many people and our best insight into how he designed the drum parts is a 7 minute iPhone video that talks about how he approached the beginning of IT. I think more of this sort of stuff will enhance the appreciation for how he approached the songs and what exactly he is thinking/doing.

[rumborak]

I don't know how one can give a 10 for drumming with a drum sound like that though.

[emtee]

Speed - 10
Dexterity - 10
Originality/Creativity - 5
Sonic quality - 3

[rude boy]

I don't know how one can give a 10 for drumming with a drum sound like that though.

...and that is the sole reason I gave him a 8. I still can't decide whether I like it or not so it can't be a 10 for me.

[nikatapi]

I put him at a 6. There's no doubt about his skills, but I think  I was hoping maybe for that "next level" he would take DT to rhythmically. And actually, rhythmically DT has gotten simpler with the last two albums. MP had a great way of inverting rhythms, that's something MM apparently doesn't do.

Yeah if we take sound quality (almost atrocious) into consideration i would give a 6 too. One thing that i'm really missing is intricate hihat work which MP did a lot, although the left-right use of cymbals on some songs (Behind The Veil for example before the guitar solo) is mindblowing.

Still, i was expecting him incorporating more polyrhythmic stuff, and i think that aspect of his playing was underutilized on the album.

[ZirconBlue]

I don't know how one can give a 10 for drumming with a drum sound like that though.

A) Because the drums sound fine, to me, and
2) Because even if they didn't the sound isn't "Mangini's work", but that of the Engineer, Producer, etc.

[adastra]

5-6 !

Theres nothing wrong with his technique of course,   but the drums sound kinda poor to me.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't know how one can give a 10 for drumming with a drum sound like that though.

A) Because the drums sound fine, to me, and
2) Because even if they didn't the sound isn't "Mangini's work", but that of the Engineer, Producer, etc.

A bad drum sound will affect the perceived drumming, due to not being able to hear the nuances and dynamics, so it does matter. Obviously it doesn't change what he's playing, but we can only judge what we hear in that final mix.

[?]

Probably 7 or 8. I honestly prefer his drumming on ADTOE...

[devieira73]

I gave 9 only due to the "not so good" drums sound, that I guess is MM responsability too. But his performance was really great overall. To me, the most incredible "drum moment" on DT12 is on the trio solo on STR. It should be at least one minute longer, really, because they are great and spontenaneus performances of JP and JM too (DT should record more music like that).

[Kotowboy]

His manic drum intro to Enemy Inside was a huge "Holy Fuck" moment for me.

One because of what he played and two because it was a huger drum sound than the previous album.

The HD Tracks reveal more nuances and the thumping snare only really ruins one song for me ( AFTR )

- but let's hope it's third time lucky for Mangini in 2015 and they finally get a good balanced mix across the board.

I'm assuming they'll go with Rich Chycki again and write / record at the same time as JP keeps enthusing about it.

Just turn the overheads up and tighten the snare again !



DT rarely put out the exact same album twice in a row - so i'm assuming that now they've done their album of shorter heavy songs -

- the next album could go the other way and be super proggy.

[kirksnosehair]

I gave him an 8 overall.  His technicality is jaw-dropping




But I have to agree with those who are saying the sound of the drums could have been better.  Especially the snare.


The other thing is this: I hold technical ability pretty high on the list of "must haves" for any drummer.  Mangini definitely delivers in that area, but sometimes he sounds a little bit mechanical.  I'd really like him to open things up a bit and ease back into the pocket more often.   

[hefdaddy42]

[erwinrafael]

It's very interesting to see such high marks for MM on DT12. I feel like I'm missing something, or need to sit down and isolate the drums a bit better; otherwise it's hard for me to pick up on anything interesting that he's doing. Not to bash, but purely for my own appreciation, can you guys list some moments from DT12 that are MM standout-moments and display his compositional creativity?

I think isolating his drums will not bring out the genius in Mangini because that will not bring out the best aspect of his playing: providing perfect complement to the other instruments. MP and MM approaches drumming differently. MP complements the other instruments but he plays like JP: like a lead guitar with riffs. MM, on the other hand, approaches his drumming like JM: like a badass bass guitar that has some solos but primarily  provides the structure that supports the other instruments.

It has been his style way back in the 90s, listen to Bangkok/Fire Garden Suite with Steve Vai or Egg Zooming with Mike Keneally. The best word I can think of in describing MM's drumming is that it is purposive. Each hit and stroke has a purpose, to highlight and complement an instrument with his one hand, another with another hand, and another with his bass. He shifts from darker sounding cymbals to brighter sounding cymbals and hi-hats when the key of the other instruments go up. Illumination Theory is amazing in that the drumming is so melodic for the entirety of the song. For instance, you can follow JR's fast piano solos and JP's fast guitar solos in The Pursuit of Truth by following the melody of MM's fast rolls that goes up and down the scale in sync with the guitar and the keyboards. His drums also perfectly followed JP's outro guitar solo. 

I think this style of playing is because of MM's classical training. He basically sees a composition as an orchestral piece. Every cymbal and drum hit corresponds to specific notes that the other instruments hit.

[hefdaddy42]

That is a fantastic explanation, and an excellent post.

[mikeyd23]

I voted an 8. It would have/could have been a 10 but...

A bad drum sound will affect the perceived drumming, due to not being able to hear the nuances and dynamics, so it does matter. Obviously it doesn't change what he's playing, but we can only judge what we hear in that final mix.

This.  My perception of what he is playing on ADTOE and DT12 is affected by the mix/production of the drums being not great.  But I'm still pleased and impressed beyond belief with him as a player, so I still ranked him as doing very well, it just could have been better with a better drum sound.

[TheGreatPretender]

10. I think his contributions to DT12 were phenomenal. Sure, it's not as self-indulgent as MP's drumming was, but that's not necessarily a bad thing either.