Why is DT sticking with Hugh Syme?

[Super Dude]

Maybe he's less expensive relative to other artists? I dunno.

[Lucidity]

Maybe he's less expensive relative to other artists? I dunno.

I don't think money is a huge problem for DT.

[TheGreatPretender]

Maybe he's less expensive relative to other artists? I dunno.

I don't think money is a huge problem for DT.

But at the same time, what DT fan can claim, "I'm not going to buy their new album because I don't like the art"? So it's not like they NEED to splurge on that particular aspect of their albums.

[Super Dude]

Maybe he's less expensive relative to other artists? I dunno.

I don't think money is a huge problem for DT.

But at the same time, what DT fan can claim, "I'm not going to buy their new album because I don't like the art"? So it's not like they NEED to splurge on that particular aspect of their albums.

This. Not being strapped for a cash doesn't mean you can't also be cheap. Usually the two go hand-in-hand.

[RaiseTheKnife]

I would rate Storm Thorgerson's work above Hugh Syme.

[TheGreatPretender]

I would rate Storm Thorgerson's work above Hugh Syme.

I like his work in general, but was never a fan of the stuff he did for DT. I don't really like the cover of FII, and especially not OIALT. I'd take any of Hugh Syme's DT album art over those two.

Plus his hardheadedness over not using DT's font or logo is definitely a bother.

[Super Dude]

Funny, because I consider FII one of their best covers. It's pure, simple, and to the point.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

probably a combination of their like for his work, their comfort level working with him, and the fact that albums with his artwork have sold well in the past.

I agree it's getting sorta old and I think it's time for a something new that represents the new DT.

[TheGreatPretender]

probably a combination of their like for his work, their comfort level working with him, and the fact that albums with his artwork have sold well in the past.

I agree it's getting sorta old and I think it's time for a something new that represents the new DT.

Well, the cover for DT12 is unlike anything that Hugh Syme has done for them in the past, and I think it's great. Hopefully with their future albums, they'll go for something with a similar in terms of direction.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

probably a combination of their like for his work, their comfort level working with him, and the fact that albums with his artwork have sold well in the past.

I agree it's getting sorta old and I think it's time for a something new that represents the new DT.

Well, the cover for DT12 is unlike anything that Hugh Syme has done for them in the past, and I think it's great. Hopefully with their future albums, they'll go for something with a similar in terms of direction.

I actually thought DT12 was one of the better recent ones. But I still think that they could find a really talented art major from a top art school who could make more intriguing and interesting art for them and probably for a lot less. There are just so many talented people out there and after 20 years of collages with weird children in them, I wouldn't complain at all if they got someone else.

[Ħ]

DT12 had a good enough album cover. But Dream Theater generally has pretty horrible album art.

[TheGreatPretender]

I actually thought DT12 was one of the better recent ones. But I still think that they could find a really talented art major from a top art school who could make more intriguing and interesting art for them and probably for a lot less. There are just so many talented people out there and after 20 years of collages with weird children in them, I wouldn't complain at all if they got someone else.

Well, to be fair, the majority of those 20 years, all the collages with the children in them were done under MP's direction and supervision. I don't know how much direction he had in the past 2 albums, but everything before that was either commissioned directly by MP, or approved after close scrutiny. And I'm sure even without MP, the covers are what the band wants, so if they want collages with children in them, no one can stop them. And if that's what they want, then no matter who they end up going with, even if it's some talented art major, we'll still end up with collages with weird children in them.

[?]

Honestly I don't know why he still does covers for them, I find his artwork to be terrible. I guess if they are happy then that's what matters.

I feel like it's the usual WWRD symptom. JP absolutely loves Rush, who are his favorite band. How can you have anyone else do art for your album, when the guy who does your favorite band's art is available?

Yeah, plus they are happy with his artwork (judging by the fact that he has been hired so many times).

I don't find Syme's work awful, but he can be pretty sloppy and lazy at times, which is a shame because he made some good covers for Rush back in the day.

[Tick]

My favorite cover all around is Octavarium. Don't know who was involved with that one? The whole thing was great from front to back.

[BlobVanDam]

My favorite cover all around is Octavarium. Don't know who was involved with that one? The whole thing was great from front to back.

That was their first with Syme, I believe. I think that one's all around great too.

[Lowdz]

Well, Syme did my favourite album cover ever (Rush's Grace Under Pressure) so he gets kudos for that, but his DT stuff is sloppy.
He was one of the go-to artists for many albums in my collection and in the late 80s/ early 90s he was just doing a variation of the same cover- a patterned/textured background with a logo. think Whitesnake 1987. You knew it was Syme just by looking at it. I posted a few examples in the DT12 cover discussion.

I'd be ok with a change up but I think they'll stick with Syme.With the exception of SFAM I can't say any DT cover is very good. I will say that I don't have a problem with WDADU's cover like just about everyone else. Though I did only have the cassette version initially and its smaller 

[rumborak]

The WDADU cover has never bothered me either.

[BlobVanDam]

The WDADU cover has never bothered me either.

Really?
One of the worst covers I've ever seen, somewhat fitting for the album.
Although granted, IaW's cover wasn't much better.

[Setlist Scotty]

Why is DT sticking with Hugh Syme?

Because his work is awesome

Correction: IMO, his ideas are generally awesome, but for the last 6 or 7 years, his work has gotten very sloppy. It first was evident on DT's stuff, but even on some of Rush's recent stuff has been of poor quality - I recall at least one or two images in the Clockwork Angels inner artwork was lowres, and his tourbooks for Rush have become very cookie-cutter with some poor choices of images (look at Neil's picture on his personal page in the CA tourbook, or Geddy's "Gedison" on his personal page).

But again, we don't know what kind of a schedule he's given or how much they even pay him for it. I'm assuming you're talking about the actual art inside the booklet, because the actual covers, I think have always been totally fine.

I doubt the man is given such a strict schedule that he has to cobble something together because he doesn't have the time to do it properly. I'd put money on the fact that he either is taking on way too much work at one time (he's very high demand, judging by some of his non-album artwork on his website), he's become lazy or he has underlings doing a lot of the work and he doesn't do a good job of QC'ing the work. In any case, he is at fault.

I say this because there was never a question of the quality of his work in the past - only in recent years has it come up. You can be sure that he's given the same deadlines he probably always has. I'd find it hard to believe that universally his deadlines on all projects suddenly became that much shorter, requiring the cutting of corners in terms of quality.

I feel like it's the usual WWRD symptom. JP absolutely loves Rush, who are his favorite band. How can you have anyone else do art for your album, when the guy who does your favorite band's art is available?

And this right here is the REAL answer to the OP's question of why DT still uses Hugh Syme.

[ytserush]

Why is DT sticking with Hugh Syme?

Because his work is awesome

So you actually prefer his artwork over SFAM and SDOIT?

Absolutely!  Particularly those two. Not that enthused about the Luna DVD menu though.

[ytserush]

Honestly I don't know why he still does covers for them, I find his artwork to be terrible. I guess if they are happy then that's what matters.

I feel like it's the usual WWRD symptom. JP absolutely loves Rush, who are his favorite band. How can you have anyone else do art for your album, when the guy who does your favorite band's art is available?

Exactly! He's following the Rush business model, which not very many can get away with.

[ReaperKK]

Funny, because I consider FII one of their best covers. It's pure, simple, and to the point.

This, but I'm biased because I'm a huge Storm fan. He makes some brilliant covers. I have his coffee table book.

[Lucien]

What if RR wants DT to keep Syme for whatever reason? Perhaps something to do with the fact that Syme has been doing the art for Rush since the mid-80's?

[TheGreatPretender]

I doubt the man is given such a strict schedule that he has to cobble something together because he doesn't have the time to do it properly. I'd put money on the fact that he either is taking on way too much work at one time (he's very high demand, judging by some of his non-album artwork on his website), he's become lazy or he has underlings doing a lot of the work and he doesn't do a good job of QC'ing the work. In any case, he is at fault.

I say this because there was never a question of the quality of his work in the past - only in recent years has it come up. You can be sure that he's given the same deadlines he probably always has. I'd find it hard to believe that universally his deadlines on all projects suddenly became that much shorter, requiring the cutting of corners in terms of quality.

Well, I'm not even sure what you mean by 'recent years'. I mean, I'm not extensively familiar with Syme's work, but out of all the stuff he did for DT, the latest album was the only one where I noticed any real flaws, which included the main cover art cut off that has been fixed, and some watermark on the inside of the booklet, as well as some scaling issues with the beach scene. And yeah, that's 3 in 1 album that makes me wonder what happened, but on the previous 4 albums, I don't see any kinds of flaws or lack of quality. If people don't like the direction of it, well, that's unfortunate, but I can't say in definite terms that any of it was of poor quality.

[Bolsters]

Well, I'm not even sure what you mean by 'recent years'. I mean, I'm not extensively familiar with Syme's work, but out of all the stuff he did for DT, the latest album was the only one where I noticed any real flaws, which included the main cover art cut off that has been fixed, and some watermark on the inside of the booklet, as well as some scaling issues with the beach scene. And yeah, that's 3 in 1 album that makes me wonder what happened,

There's also overlapping problems on the acoustic guitar page. The guitar and piano are supposed to be behind an object (I don't actually know what it is, some kind of farm equipment?) going by their positioning, but the corner of the guitar and the leg of the paino are overlapping infront of the object. Clear lack of attention to detail. The Enigma Machine page looks completely off, there's virtually no integration and the machine and stool don't appear to fit with the rest of the image at all, not even slightly. This is most evident along the bottom of the machine.

but on the previous 4 albums, I don't see any kinds of flaws or lack of quality. If people don't like the direction of it, well, that's unfortunate, but I can't say in definite terms that any of it was of poor quality.

A few elements of the BC&SL cover don't fit together very well. I know they're all copy/pasted from other sources, but that's no excuse for it to be as sloppy as it is. I mean, the mouse and the glass bottle don't even have shadows. They appear to be just haphazardly stamped on to the image, and worse jump right out the minute anyone looks at the cover as being "wrong" (no one I've showed that CD to has missed the mouse, so far, and most get it immediately without me even saying there's anything wrong with the cover in the first place). If a little more effort were put in, those problems could be very easily fixed, but they were not. It's not like we're talking about hours worth of work here either, this is the sort of thing an experienced professional can do rather quickly. That's what Hugh Syme is supposed to be, so why didn't he?

As for ADTOE, we've got some mismatched clothing on the unicyclist but also that horrible rope cut at the left. SC is probably the least offensive to me of the four, I can't remember there being anything really wrong with it like there is with the most recent three.

[TheGreatPretender]

As for ADTOE, we've got some mismatched clothing on the unicyclist but also that horrible rope cut at the left. SC is probably the least offensive to me of the four, I can't remember there being anything really wrong with it like there is with the most recent three.

Honestly, I've never noticed the mouse thing before. Yeah, now that you mention it, I see it, but it's the first time I cared to notice that there's no shadow on it.

Not sure what you mean by mismatched clothing, but the rope cut was only seen in that high resolution image that was released online, it's cropped out on the album itself, so I wouldn't call that a mistake. Seems to me like that original image was bigger than the intended frame of it.

[BlobVanDam]

As for ADTOE, we've got some mismatched clothing on the unicyclist but also that horrible rope cut at the left. SC is probably the least offensive to me of the four, I can't remember there being anything really wrong with it like there is with the most recent three.

Honestly, I've never noticed the mouse thing before. Yeah, now that you mention it, I see it, but it's the first time I cared to notice that there's no shadow on it.

Not sure what you mean by mismatched clothing, but the rope cut was only seen in that high resolution image that was released online, it's cropped out on the album itself, so I wouldn't call that a mistake. Seems to me like that original image was bigger than the intended frame of it.

The full images are always slighty bigger than intended for printing, to make sure there's no bordering and to give it some margin for error.
I don't see any problem with the unicyclist's clothes. The upper part of the body is not from the same stock image as the legs and unicycle, but the edit looks fine to me. But his left arm looks a little weird, because it's a copy of his right arm.

[Bolsters]

I haven't looked at the actual ADTOE CD in over two years so forget I ever mentioned the rope cut. I actually did think it was on there though, probably because I remember it being discussed so much, but it seems I am mistaken.

I don't see any problem with the unicyclist's clothes. The upper part of the body is not from the same stock image as the legs and unicycle, but the edit looks fine to me. But his left arm looks a little weird, because it's a copy of his right arm.

The pants and gloves just seem a bit "off" to me, is all, especially the right hand. Not a huge gripe as I said, but just something I notice.

[BlobVanDam]

I haven't looked at the actual ADTOE CD in over two years so forget I ever mentioned the rope cut. I actually did think it was on there though, probably because I remember it being discussed so much, but it seems I am mistaken.

I don't see any problem with the unicyclist's clothes. The upper part of the body is not from the same stock image as the legs and unicycle, but the edit looks fine to me. But his left arm looks a little weird, because it's a copy of his right arm.

The pants and gloves just seem a bit "off" to me, is all, especially the right hand. Not a huge gripe as I said, but just something I notice.

The gloves look off to me, as the lighting doesn't match up, and the left hand angle is awkward, but I have no problem with the pants.
My only major gripe with the cover though, is the DT font being squished.

Out of the Syme work, I think Octavarium and SC are great from front to back, and I think the covers are right up there among DT's best ones.
I don't like the BCASL cover (I don't like that style of cover including IaW and Awake), but I thought the booklet artwork was still really good. I'm not a fan of the ADTOE cover either, but I liked the art. The DT12 cover is a big improvement, with the booklet art being a bit hit and miss for me.

I like a lot of Syme's ideas, and DT obviously like his work, and have a trusted working history there now, so I'm not sure they should drop him, but sometimes I feel his images need a bit more polish just to fix these minor problems people notice.

[wolfking]

Why is DT sticking with Hugh Syme?

Maybe they like his work.

[TheGreatPretender]

The gloves look off to me, as the lighting doesn't match up, and the left hand angle is awkward, but I have no problem with the pants.
My only major gripe with the cover though, is the DT font being squished.

Out of the Syme work, I think Octavarium and SC are great from front to back, and I think the covers are right up there among DT's best ones.
I don't like the BCASL cover (I don't like that style of cover including IaW and Awake), but I thought the booklet artwork was still really good. I'm not a fan of the ADTOE cover either, but I liked the art. The DT12 cover is a big improvement, with the booklet art being a bit hit and miss for me.

I like a lot of Syme's ideas, and DT obviously like his work, and have a trusted working history there now, so I'm not sure they should drop him, but sometimes I feel his images need a bit more polish just to fix these minor problems people notice.

The thing that makes BCSL cover better than I&W or Awake for me is that BCSL cover clearly has a much more established sense of tone to it. At least everything on it looks like it's lit with the same tone, whereas the former two are just cut and paste jobs, which, considering the technology of the time and the budget they were given, was probably totally acceptable.

But yeah, I think Syme's work for Dream Theater has been MOSTLY good.

[Onno]

Honestly I don't know why he still does covers for them, I find his artwork to be terrible. I guess if they are happy then that's what matters.

I feel like it's the usual WWRD symptom. JP absolutely loves Rush, who are his favorite band. How can you have anyone else do art for your album, when the guy who does your favorite band's art is available?

DT is my favourite band, but if I was in a world-class band, I'd not let Syme do my artwork just because I like DT. I think is artwork for DT12, except for the actual cover, is absolutely rubbish. The artwork for ADTOE was ok though, as were the ones for SC and BC&SL. Octavarium has great artwork, apart from the mistake on the cover.

I'd really like DT to pick someone else for any future releases.

[Viking of the Sagas]

Some change would be welcomed, though Syme has been doing okay work with the band. He's not the award-winning artist he was made out to be, but manages.

[Jaq]

They keep using him because they like his work and they think it looks good?

I dunno, I am pretty sure in this age of Art By Photoshop you could probably take a magnifying glass and find every little artifact and thing you want to see as a mistake and call it shoddy artwork. I usually either don't see the OMG HUGE PROBLEMS people do with Syme's DT art, or I don't give a fuck if three pixels are out of whack. Sometimes I wonder if some of you here have any joy in your lives, all you do is look for the bad.

[orcus116]

The tilted Earth thing is nitpicking. The sloppy copy/paste jobs using stock photos is blatant and the results come across as an afterthought and lazy.