Why is DT sticking with Hugh Syme?

[rumborak]

When they announced that the DT12 artwork was again going to be by him, I was actually rather surprised. When I personally rank the DT cover artworks, the non-Syme ones go on top (SFAM, SDOIT), with the Syme work a good chunk below (especially BCSL, shudder). And then after the snafu with the unicyclist, I thought they were going to get someone else. I would think there's a ton of visual artists, probably cheaper than Syme, who would love the exposure.

So, is it the continuity aspect of it? Or is it just me who ranks the non-Syme work as the best?

[TheAtliator]

Why is DT sticking with Hugh Syme?

Because his work is awesome

[theseoafs]

When they announced that the DT12 artwork was again going to be by him, I was actually rather surprised. When I personally rank the DT cover artworks, the non-Syme ones go on top (SFAM, SDOIT), with the Syme work a good chunk below (especially BCSL, shudder). And then after the snafu with the unicyclist, I thought they were going to get someone else. I would think there's a ton of visual artists, probably cheaper than Syme, who would love the exposure.

So, is it the continuity aspect of it? Or is it just me who ranks the non-Syme work as the best?

I don't particularly care for what he does (especially given the embarrassing little errors that seem to slip through the cracks on everything he publishes), but the band is obviously extremely happy with him.  I don't think any of the complaints that the fans leveraged against him actually ever made it back to the band.

[rumborak]

Why is DT sticking with Hugh Syme?

Because his work is awesome

So you actually prefer his artwork over SFAM and SDOIT?

[TheGreatPretender]

So you actually prefer his artwork over SFAM and SDOIT?

I definitely prefer it over SDOIT. Personally, I'm not a fan of any art work that's dominantly white, unless it's really minimalist like Fates Warning's new album. SDOIT just looks messy, and I understand why, but being that messy while at the same time being mostly white just doesn't appeal to me.

And while SFAM cover art is brilliant, Dave McKean himself isn't really an album cover artist (I don't think). If you look at his body of work, it's pretty much all just weird, distorted looking faces. Beautiful stuff, but I certainly wouldn't want DT's cover art to be a bunch of distorted faces, album after album.

I think Hugh Syme is just fine. Yeah, he overlooks some things here and there, but at a glance, his art looks great, eye catching and all the elements blend together smoothly. All the while, the elements are arranged in such a way that even if there are a lot, like in Black Clouds, there is still a sense of design and order about it, instead of just a bunch of different things all over the place like on Images and Words and Awake.
I think pretty much all the cover art that Hugh Syme has done with DT has been really great. And yes, there are some things inside the actual booklet that are flawed, but that's only noticeable if you really pay close attention to them, and I don't think they were meant for that.

Not only that, but think about this, while it's incredibly important to design an eye catching and appealing cover art for an album, how much time and money do you think he got to make all those pages inside the actual booklet? He was probably paid a fairly finite amount to get them done quickly, since I don't think the label would pay someone that much money just to make a bunch of pages inside the booklet.

[rumborak]

I definitely prefer it over SDOIT. Personally, I'm not a fan of any art work that's dominantly white, unless it's really minimalist like Fates Warning's new album. SDOIT just looks messy, and I understand why, but being that messy while at the same time being mostly white just doesn't appeal to me.

I loved SDOIT, especially that "dirtiness". I agree that SFAM was a bit of a one-off, but that was fine, because they could have just kept switching artists.
BCSL really exemplified all I don't like about Syme, and since it followed the SC artwork (which is pretty poor too), I started to get a negative association with the guy.

[kirksnosehair]

I think he's massively overrated

[TheGreatPretender]

I loved SDOIT, especially that "dirtiness". I agree that SFAM was a bit of a one-off, but that was fine, because they could have just kept switching artists.
BCSL really exemplified all I don't like about Syme, and since it followed the SC artwork (which is pretty poor too), I started to get a negative association with the guy.

I didn't mind the dirtiness of it, but when coupled with the dominant white color, that kind of thing always reminds me of when little kids draw something but are too lazy to color parts of it in, so it just seems like it's lacking something. Again, I GET it, and it fits the album's subject matter really well, but aesthetically, I just don't like it.

I loved BCSL, honestly, the cover was the best thing about that album. And when I think of SC, I always think of the limited edition cover, which was excellent.

[GasparXR]

I think the reason they stuck with him is because he knows the kind of album art style that fits with the band, based on all of the pre-Octavarium art. Obviously, his art has his signature, but it also has the DT signature, often employing mixes of real things that you would never see mixed together, provoking thought. There was a fan album art that was posted around here sometime around ADTOE's release, with a giant red dice block in a vast ocean. That's definitely Hugh Syme, but also very Dream Theater. It's something he would make specifically for a DT album.

All that, and they like his work. Just because a fair number of us have been picking apart the little mistakes in his art doesn't suddenly mean the band is going to share our opinion.

As for me, although I will admit to the little mistakes, I likely wouldn't notice them if it weren't for people here pointing them out. No harm in it -- we enjoy looking at things through a microscope. Regardless of these little mistakes, I still enjoy the bigger picture (heh) that the mistakes are a part of. The final results always look great. DT12 is probably my favourite of Syme's work with DT so far, maybe tied with Octavarium.

[Zook]

The guy is a hack. The DT12 artwork proves that. Noticeable watermarks, bad Photoshop overlapping, and just unfinished cover art is unacceptable.

[Tick]

I really don't care much about covers or stuff of that nature. Not that I don't think a cover can be cool. I have never even taken the sleeve out of my CD to look at the booklet. Don't know if it has pictures, lyrics, or whatever?

[TheAtliator]

Why is DT sticking with Hugh Syme?

Because his work is awesome

So you actually prefer his artwork over SFAM and SDOIT?

Not over. All the DT artwork is massively brilliant in my eyes except for WDADU only because I don't particular enjoy looking at hairy armpits. But I say hell yea to all of HS's work. Before I came to the forums I didn't even realize anyone didn't like it- it's great!

[Lucidity]

I feel like the type of album covers Syme creates, while not necessarily awful, do contribute to the whole pseudo-intellectual pretentiousness associated with cheesy prog and prog (especially modern) album art (which I think is a group DT should not be included in). If I wanted to show someone who knows music some DT, they might take one look at the album cover and think, "Oh, it's that kind of band..."

[j]

I too am not a fan of Hugh Syme's work.

Maybe the band is happy with him, maybe they partly stick with him for tradition's sake, or because he did album art for some of their musical idols?

-J

[rumborak]

It is definitely a weird phenomenon. Prog, as a genre, has pretty terrible cover art. A lot of overwrought imagery.

And if I try to think back at who started it, I think Yes is the big offender.

[bosk1]

Before I came to the forums I didn't even realize anyone didn't like it- it's great!

Outside of a few people on this forum, I don't think there are many people who actively dislike Syme's DT album covers.

[TheAtliator]

oh ok well there you go! Just thought there'd be a bit stronger positive feedback of all the album covers I guess.

[TheGreatPretender]

It is definitely a weird phenomenon. Prog, as a genre, has pretty terrible cover art. A lot of overwrought imagery.

And if I try to think back at who started it, I think Yes is the big offender.

Well, which genre has good cover art? I mean, there are some cool Metal covers, but a lot of them either take themselves too seriously, or just use cheesy comic book art. Honestly, half of Iron Maiden's covers... Haven't aged with me too well.

Rock in general utilizes too much band photography for their covers. Always having the band members standing there, looking angsty or whatever.

I wouldn't say any genre has good or bad covers in general. Certain artists might, or even certain albums. But I wouldn't say Prog covers are any worse than covers for any other genre.

[GasparXR]

I feel like the type of album covers Syme creates, while not necessarily awful, do contribute to the whole pseudo-intellectual pretentiousness associated with cheesy prog and prog (especially modern) album art (which I think is a group DT should not be included in). If I wanted to show someone who knows music some DT, they might take one look at the album cover and think, "Oh, it's that kind of band..."

I don't think any of DT's album art is pretentious at all.

[rumborak]

It is definitely a weird phenomenon. Prog, as a genre, has pretty terrible cover art. A lot of overwrought imagery.

And if I try to think back at who started it, I think Yes is the big offender.

Well, which genre has good cover art? I mean, there are some cool Metal covers, but a lot of them either take themselves too seriously, or just use cheesy comic book art. Honestly, half of Iron Maiden's covers... Haven't aged with me too well.

Rock in general utilizes too much band photography for their covers. Always having the band members standing there, looking angsty or whatever.

I wouldn't say any genre has good or bad covers in general. Certain artists might, or even certain albums. But I wouldn't say Prog covers are any worse than covers for any other genre.

Actually, Pop has pretty good covers I think. At least to me they are usually the ones that stand out.

[TheGreatPretender]

Actually, Pop has pretty good covers I think. At least to me they are usually the ones that stand out.

Pop is a little vague. Do you mean like popular, mainsteam music? Or do you mean like R&B, soft rock, dance music... What kinds of artists are you referring to?

[King Postwhore]

I think he's massively overrated

Not in his heyday in the 80's but of late it's been poor at best.

[rumborak]

I left it intentionally vague because it's not that I can really tell them apart
What I mean though is, mainstream music takes much greater care about the presentation of the product. It often involves a very well done shot with the artist, whereas in the case of say Dream Theater you just get the usual "folded-arms and looking tough" shot.

[King Postwhore]

Rumbo, I think it's the style of the genre they are in.  I am with you that SDOIT and FII are my faves.  Something very different.

[TheGreatPretender]

I left it intentionally vague because it's not that I can really tell them apart
What I mean though is, mainstream music takes much greater care about the presentation of the product. It often involves a very well done shot with the artist, whereas in the case of say Dream Theater you just get the usual "folded-arms and looking tough" shot.

Well, if you're talking about mainstream music, then yeah, because the labels invest a hell of a lot more money into their artists, from recording, to post production to marketing, so in that respect, they want to make sure that the album art is all that it could be. But mainstream music in itself, while it may be considered "pop", does span a number of genres, including the ones I mentioned. So personally, I don't even consider 'pop' a genre, so much as a portion of the music industry which takes other genres and makes them a little more accessible, melodic and catchy, and in a lot of cases, watered down.

But if you want to label pop as a sound, there are quite a few underground artists out there who dabble in a vague mix of R&B, Jazz, Dance, Country, Rock, and blend those genres together, or just accentuate one or the other in different songs, so the music can't be described as anything other than "Pop". Artists like Jane Siberry, or Poe, for example. And being underground artists, they could just as easily succumb to bad, or uninteresting album art or photoshoots.

[Bolsters]

I generally don't have issue with the concepts that Syme come up with for the DT album covers, I just have issue with the way he puts them together. There's always a few obvious easy to fix mistakes that make it through, and many elements of the artwork appear stamped on in a hurry (I realise he uses elements from different images, but with a little more effort he could have these elements blend together better). This shows me that he gives almost no attention to detail, and/or rushes what he makes out the door, and neither of these helps me to appreciate him as an artist.

[TheGreatPretender]

I generally don't have issue with the concepts that Syme come up with for the DT album covers, I just have issue with the way he puts them together. There's always a few obvious easy to fix mistakes that make it through, and many elements of the artwork appear stamped on in a hurry (I realise he uses elements from different images, but with a little more effort he could have these elements blend together better). This shows me that he gives almost no attention to detail, and/or rushes what he makes out the door, and neither of these helps me to appreciate him as an artist.

But again, we don't know what kind of a schedule he's given or how much they even pay him for it. I'm assuming you're talking about the actual art inside the booklet, because the actual covers, I think have always been totally fine.

[Bolsters]

But again, we don't know what kind of a schedule he's given or how much they even pay him for it.

Whether or not he has enough time to iron out the details or how much money gets is irrelevant to my opinions and feelings towards his artwork. They could certainly be valid reasons, no doubt, but the final product is all that matters and I'm generally not impressed with how the final product looks. The reasons for why the artwork is like that is irrelevant to me. Having a good excuse isn't going to change my appreciation for his work, or lack thereof. I see problems in them that could have been fixed but weren't, they will always be there, the reason why doesn't change anything.

Also, if he isn't being paid enough, maybe he'd get more money if the quality of his work were higher. If I were in a band and putting out an album, I wouldn't want to pay Syme nearly as much as I would pay almost any other prominent artist that I can think of. I'd probably pay significantly less to some lesser known or unknown artist and be much happier with what they gave me than anything I would have gotten if I had chosen Syme.

I'm assuming you're talking about the actual art inside the booklet, because the actual covers, I think have always been totally fine.

No, I also see problems with the covers, though I will concede that the booklet artwork is usually worse.

[Perpetual Change]

I thought for sure they would have sacked Syme after the unicycle. Guess I was wrong. Not only did they bring Syme back, but they brought the unicycle back, too.

[rumborak]

Yeah. I mean sure, Circus Maximus isn't a big band, but you'd think he would retire an element of his art once he's used it prominently.

[Zook]

Yeah. I mean sure, Circus Maximus isn't a big band, but you'd think he would retire an element of his art once he's used it prominently.

They should be.

[ReaperKK]

Honestly I don't know why he still does covers for them, I find his artwork to be terrible. I guess if they are happy then that's what matters.

[rumborak]

Looks like he's reused stuff before:

https://www.2112.net/powerwindows/references/AllmanBrothersDifferentStages.jpg

EDIT: Oh god, he didn't even bother to take out the Canadian flag of the original Rush crowd this is from. The second one is for the Allman Brothers.

[TheGreatPretender]

I'm assuming you're talking about the actual art inside the booklet, because the actual covers, I think have always been totally fine.

No, I also see problems with the covers, though I will concede that the booklet artwork is usually worse.

Well, I think his cover artwork is great. And that probably answers the thread. Why are they still sticking with Syme? Because most people don't mind it, and quite a few people really like it.

[Perpetual Change]

Honestly I don't know why he still does covers for them, I find his artwork to be terrible. I guess if they are happy then that's what matters.

I feel like it's the usual WWRD symptom. JP absolutely loves Rush, who are his favorite band. How can you have anyone else do art for your album, when the guy who does your favorite band's art is available?