The Enemy Inside Discussion Thread

[aurorablind]

Checking in after listening to this song probably 20 times over the last few days.
To sum up the maturing prosess i've been going through with this song, i give you this emoticon-based chart of emotions:

First listen: 
Second listen 
Third listen: 
Fourth listen: 
Fifth listen:   

This was my pretty much my reaction the first day of listening to the song.

After listening to it for a few days i guess i have ended up like this: 

A good song, but nothing really spectacular. Pretty much heavy Dream Theater by numbers, and i don't mind that. I didn't really expect anything groundbreaking. It's just a very good, heavy Dream Theater song.
However, if this is a good representation of the overall sound of the record, im not really that impressed. I LOVED On the back of angels and feel like its a good representation of ADTOE, and i loved ADTOE!
Im not really that concerned, really. Dream Theater albums are usually pretty varied, and im guessing they wanted to release a single that smacked people in the face a bit. If DT12 is following the same path they started on with ADTOE im guessing that we are getting a really good album.
Im just hoping they dare to touch on to some stuff they haven't really tried before. Even though im guessing the album is going to be really good, im at the same time expecting it to be a pretty traditional DT-album.
Im missing the days when every album was very different from eachother (SFAM - SDOIT - TOT - 8VM), and when we really didn't know what to expect what they were doing next.
Oh well, im just rambling. Maybe the guys will suprise me 

[Kotowboy]

I don't get how it has " no memorable " melodies or instrumentation.

I have " A suffocating memory is etched up on my mind and I can't escape from the Enemy Inside " running round my mind all day.

Also the keyboard part which JR plays early on that John echoes on guitar later in the track.

Also that circus-y run which sounds like the "jingle bells" section in Octavarium...

[puppyonacid]

I remember when I watched the Matrix, Inception, Pulp Fiction etc that I didn't remember anything first time round. There was just too much going on. I could remember the odd flash of a scene here and there. I jsut knew I'd enjoyed the films and needed to watch again.

Same goes with DT. I rarely remember even their msot catchy melodies first time around as there is just too much going on to take in. Few listens and things begin to stick.

I think that's where it's at with DT for me. Almost everytime withough fail I'm a bit nonplussed at first listen. I know to go back to as it's just that there's much to take on board.

As far as different albums, I remember being shocked at ToTs heaviness and hating it. I felt like DT had become something different. But as I listened I 'got it' and it was just DT flexing their metal muscles. I could still hear that it retained all the DTness that I loved but it took a few listens to get there. Now it's a favey album.

I'm not sure where else there is left for them to go though. They've done, pop, rock, metal and all things prog. I think this is what they mean by the self titled album being the epitome of the DT sound. I think there will be less stylistic exploration and more something akin to what we all feel DT really is.

[nicbor87]

Am I the only one finding the vocals way too quiet? Labrie is almost burried in the mix.
Also he still has that strange chorus-ish effect on his voice, same as on ADTOE...

[puppyonacid]

Sounds like phasing to me. Like they're going for the double tracked effect without double tracking.

I'm not overly keen on the "singing in a wardrobe" sound either really.

[aprilethereal]

Am I the only one finding the vocals way too quiet?

No you aren't. I don't mind the mix, but this has been mentioned a lot of times already.

[serrano]

No you aren't. I don't mind the mix, but this has been mentioned a lot of times already.

Actually the vocals were really low on the stream version. On the RR download the vocals were mixed ok. Seems like this sonic wall was not the best input for the stream lower bitrate.

[nicbor87]

Am I the only one finding the vocals way too quiet?

No you aren't. I don't mind the mix, but this has been mentioned a lot of times already.

My bad then, i only read like 10 pages of the thread 

I'm talking about the iTunes version by the way.

[7StringedBeast]

Could all of this be a fault of digital recording (Protools etc)?  I never heard of loudness wars back when tape was the norm.

It is 100% possible to make recordings digitally that are not overly compressed. The recording process does not compress at all. It's not until someone decides to compress the audio too much that we get the loudness war result. That usually happens at mastering but sometimes a mixing engineer can also compress things too much.

If anything, higher dynamic range is easier with digital recording, because the noise floor is much lower compared to tape recording.

Honestly, I cannot believe it's 2013 and we are still dealing with the loudness war. How do these "engineers" sleep at night, knowing(?) that they are ruining modern recordings by brick-walling them to death? It's such a shame. Like someone else said, the only prog recordings you can trust these days must have Steven Wilson's name on it.

On the upside, there is a chance that the HD Tracks version will not be brick-walled. That is actually the case for the HD Tracks version of ADTOE. The HD Tracks version of ADTOE has more breathing room and has been speculated to be taken from a different master. Probably the same master that was used for the vinyl version. While I hope Dream Theater releases a better master for HD Tracks, it probably won't happen right away.

This might be a bit unlikely but it is possible that the mastering for this single is not exactly the way it will be on the album.  It could have a special mastering just because it is a single release to push it to the loudness of most modern recordings, enabling it to compete with whatever else is out there on the radio or youtube or whatever.

So it is possible that the album sounds a bit different than the single.

[Chino]

Am I the only one finding the vocals way too quiet?

No you aren't. I don't mind the mix, but this has been mentioned a lot of times already.

My bad then, i only read like 10 pages of the thread 

I'm talking about the iTunes version by the way.

According to my play counts, I've listened to it 19 times now. I really like it.

[aprilethereal]

I've listened to it three times the day it came out and maybe one or two times in the meantime. I hope I manage to listen to it only three more times at max till the release of the album.

[serrano]

I have the feeling that this will be one of the songs i care less about, not that i don't like it, but i expect a lot from the rest.


Edit: But a hell of an opener live

[chknptpie]

I've listened to it twice so far and I'm "meh" oh it.

[Progmetty]

Song is okay. The drums and the guitars kick so much ass, my only problem is with the vocal melodies which I found lazy and not memorable IMO. The instrumental section is fine but nothing unique, at least compared to previous singles.

[Podaar]

Last night while having a beverage and making dinner, I played TEI for Mrs. Podaar. Now, as you might guess, she's not crazy about prog or metal but being around me all these years has exposed her to it on a semi-regular basis. About a minute into the song she said, in her most sarcastic tone, "It's too bad the band can't find a replacement drummer." Then she and said, "Wow". Once it was over she thought for a minute and said, "It's really high energy and I really liked the keyboards giving a counter to all the heaviness. Yea, I'll buy it."

And she did! She went upstairs while I finished making dinner and by the time I was pouring the wine the new song was residing on her iPhone among the ABBA, Bananarama, Depeche Mode, and Alison Moyet!

[Zydar]

Never let her go.

[The Stray Seed]

This might be a bit unlikely but it is possible that the mastering for this single is not exactly the way it will be on the album.  It could have a special mastering just because it is a single release to push it to the loudness of most modern recordings, enabling it to compete with whatever else is out there on the radio or youtube or whatever.

So it is possible that the album sounds a bit different than the single.

Interesting...

[Chino]

Last night while having a beverage and making dinner, I played TEI for Mrs. Podaar. Now, as you might guess, she's not crazy about prog or metal but being around me all these years has exposed her to it on a semi-regular basis. About a minute into the song she said, in her most sarcastic tone, "It's too bad the band can't find a replacement drummer." Then she and said, "Wow". Once it was over she thought for a minute and said, "It's really high energy and I really liked the keyboards giving a counter to all the heaviness. Yea, I'll buy it."

And she did! She went upstairs while I finished making dinner and by the time I was pouring the wine the new song was residing on her iPhone among the ABBA, Bananarama, Depeche Mode, and Alison Moyet!

Chain her to something that it's critical to the structural integrity of your home. Do not let her get away.

[wolven74]

Am I the only one finding the vocals way too quiet?

No you aren't. I don't mind the mix, but this has been mentioned a lot of times already.

My bad then, i only read like 10 pages of the thread 

I'm talking about the iTunes version by the way.

According to my play counts, I've listened to it 19 times now. I really like it.

I thought the vocals were a little quiet the first time I heard the track, but the more I've listened to it the vocals became clearer. Especially in the car. One thing I can say is this is the loudest production they've done. It's among all the other DT CDs on my iPod and this song comes on like Kramer through Seinfeld's door. It just owns.

[SubV]

I like the new song a lot. But production quality on this one is almost as bad as Metallica's "Death Magnetic".

The dynamic range of Death Magnetic is 4, and DR of "The Enemy Inside" is 5.

The average DR of Dream Theater's previous work, the ADToE, is 7, which is not good too. Fortunately, with ADToE, they decided to release the 'HDTracks' version of album, which have dynamic range of 11 and crystal clear sound.

See for yourself.

ADToE, CD Version


ADToE, HDTracks


The Enemy Inside (iTunes)


edit: re-uploaded the images to another server.

[BlackInk]

Also the keyboard part which JR plays early on that John echoes on guitar later in the track.

I had that on my mind a few hours too, until I realized it was just the part in OtBoA that sounds exactly the same and is in the exact same place in the song I was actually thinking about.

[Mindflux]

The Enemy Inside (iTunes)

But you're comparing a lossy file (MP3) to ... what from death magnetic? The CD or the same bitrate MP3 from the same encoder version?

[mikeyd23]

I like the new song a lot. But production quality on this one almost as bad as Metallica's "Death Magnetic".

The dynamic range of Death Magnetic is 4, and DR of "The Enemy Inside" is 5.

The average DR of Dream Theater's previous work, the ADToE, is 7, which is not good too. Fortunately, with ADToE, they decided to release the 'HDTracks' version of album, which have dynamic range of 11 and crystal clear sound.

See for yourself.....

Whoa... This is interesting.  This tune is pretty thick, but seeing it visually always makes a big impact.

[SubV]

But you're comparing a lossy file (MP3) to ... what from death magnetic? The CD or the same bitrate MP3 from the same encoder version?

The lossy compression (mp3) even increases the DR value a little bit, compared to lossless CD.

I've compared the ADToE CD (lossless), ADToE HDTracks (lossless) and The Enemy Inside (lossy).

[BlobVanDam]

The Enemy Inside (iTunes)

But you're comparing a lossy file (MP3) to ... what from death magnetic? The CD or the same bitrate MP3 from the same encoder version?

That wouldn't really change the DR much (maybe by 0.1 or so from the lossy encoding, but it's negligible unless you're going with a horribly low bitrate like a web stream).
I would kill to have some of DT's older albums such as SDOIT or ToT with a DR of 11. It's a shame they only have ADTOE, as imo the production isn't great regardless of the compression. I actually thought the compression sounded pretty good for a recent album though.
It's a shame the site doesn't have anything I'm interested in, although I guess the higher DR isn't always guaranteed?

[SystematicThought]

I played it in my car earlier today and it sounded really good actually. DT albums usually sound great in the car though

[The Boomr]

This thread just got insanely interesting to me

[mikeyd23]

I played it in my car earlier today and it sounded really good actually. DT albums usually sound great in the car though

Yeah I did the same the other day.  Sounded great in my car, huge drum sound, guitars sounded heavy, I could hear JM and the keys seemed to sit in a pretty good place in the mix most of the time.  JLB was still a little low, especially in the verses, but it wasn't too bad.

[YtseCullen]

So a few days into listening to this single, and I can honestly say this is my favourite single release from any band in a very long time! I find it quite memorable. I'm always singing the chorus when I'm at work, which makes me want to listen to it. I love JP's performance and his tone is the best I've heard in awhile, Mikes drumming is top notch (The snare drum sound doesn't bother me at all), James sounds awesome, a little bit similar to what he's been doing in his solo work. I love the mix, drums are more upfront and you can hear JMX, who's solid as always! And JR's bits add a lot for me! Adds a bit of groove to it, and when JP plays one of the same bits later on in the song (around 4:15) has to be one of my favourite parts!

To me this sounds like an energized band, which for me is a really good thing! I can't wait for the album because I think this is a promising sign to any DT fan!

[Podaar]

Do not let her get away.

Never let her go.

You bet! She's awesome.

Besides, I'm not sure she can get out of pit anyway.

[7StringedBeast]

This is a fun little game.

Play Under a glass moon from I&W.  Put on good headphones.  And get it to a volume that's loud and doesn't hurt your ears at all.

Listen and groove to the song for a while.  Relish in beautiful space between all the instruments while the music pumps to the beat and it's still fucking heavy.

Then, don't adjust anything and switch over to the new single The Enemy Inside.  Prepare to have your ears fucking assaulted.

It is a crying shame the way albums are mastered today.  I&W sounds soooo good today because you can crank it up and really feel the music.  If you crank up TEI it's just mush.  You struggle to hear things. 
With I&W you can actually hear everything perfectly.

[krieger]

I have listened to it about a dozen times... a very good song. The beginning and the ending are incredible, and the vocals are quite impressive. 

Nevertheless, I was more impressed with In the Back of Angels... 

[Lucien]

I have listened to it about a dozen times... a very good song. The beginning and the ending are incredible, and the vocals are quite impressive. 

Nevertheless, I was more impressed with In the Back of Angels... 

In the Backs of Angels? It suddenly sounds like a black metal song.

[The Boomr]

I have listened to it about a dozen times... a very good song. The beginning and the ending are incredible, and the vocals are quite impressive. 

Nevertheless, I was more impressed with In the Back of Angels... 

In the Backs of Angels? It suddenly sounds like a black metal song.

If you have a dirty mind it also sounds really bad in a very awkward way! 

This is a fun little game.

Play Under a glass moon from I&W.  Put on good headphones.  And get it to a volume that's loud and doesn't hurt your ears at all.

Listen and groove to the song for a while.  Relish in beautiful space between all the instruments while the music pumps to the beat and it's still fucking heavy.

Then, don't adjust anything and switch over to the new single The Enemy Inside.  Prepare to have your ears fucking assaulted.

It is a crying shame the way albums are mastered today.  I&W sounds soooo good today because you can crank it up and really feel the music.  If you crank up TEI it's just mush.  You struggle to hear things. 
With I&W you can actually hear everything perfectly.

I&W seriously does sound amazing.

[mikeyd23]

This is a fun little game.

Play Under a glass moon from I&W.  Put on good headphones.  And get it to a volume that's loud and doesn't hurt your ears at all.

Listen and groove to the song for a while.  Relish in beautiful space between all the instruments while the music pumps to the beat and it's still fucking heavy.

Then, don't adjust anything and switch over to the new single The Enemy Inside.  Prepare to have your ears fucking assaulted.

It is a crying shame the way albums are mastered today.  I&W sounds soooo good today because you can crank it up and really feel the music.  If you crank up TEI it's just mush.  You struggle to hear things. 
With I&W you can actually hear everything perfectly.

Yeah I agree... Like you said, its just how most albums are mastered today unfortunately.  Its a great feeling to be able to crank a song up and feel the drums and bass groove but still have clarity to the guitars, keys, vocals, etc... and still feel like there is space and breathing room, Under a Glass Moon was a good example to use.

Most modern albums suffer from everything mushing together, to a certain degree when at high volumes, not all modern albums, but definitely most.