Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[DTiwbwMP]

Not sure how "controversial" this will be but I think the upcoming PARASOMNIA N.A. fall tour will NOT be as well attended as the 40th anny shows.

[Cavalry of Despair]

Kocak, if at some point you'd be interested in creating a thread with in-depth analyses of DT mixes, I'd love to read it. I'm essentially a bedroom producer so while I do have a pretty good ear for production, it's not nearly at the same level as someone who's done this at a high professional venue for decades.

[Kocak]

Kocak, if at some point you'd be interested in creating a thread with in-depth analyses of DT mixes, I'd love to read it. I'm essentially a bedroom producer so while I do have a pretty good ear for production, it's not nearly at the same level as someone who's done this at a high professional venue for decades.

Decade and a half, let's say. "Decades" makes me sound older than I'd like to think I am

Interesting idea, this. Let me think about this a little because there are different ways to do such an analysis. Let me think a little bit and come up with something engaging. Over the years, I have seen fellow members here criticise those that dare criticise Dream Theater's productions, maybe I can help put things in context.

I'm not a naturally talented person. I often need an academic approach to whatever I'm doing, break it down so I can learn it. I have met many individuals over the years who just have a knack for these things, I'm not one of them. This does provide for one advantage though, I get to know what each production choice can do in a lot more detail than many others that I know. I depend a lot less on experimentation at work.

Not sure how "controversial" this will be but I think the upcoming PARASOMNIA N.A. fall tour will NOT be as well attended as the 40th anny shows.

Highly likely as the hype around the band isn't primarily around Parasomnia. I'm guessing they'll have to do something interesting to drum up interest. It might have been a better commercial decision to write and release Parasomnia after the 40th Anniversary tour. The current revenue model of the industry for bands like Dream Theater depend on sustained interest and not on bursts of hype.

[durga2112]

Not sure how "controversial" this will be but I think the upcoming PARASOMNIA N.A. fall tour will NOT be as well attended as the 40th anny shows.

I mean, there are hot takes, and then there's this, which is more like room temperature in an unheated house in the middle of winter. 

Interesting idea, this. Let me think about this a little because there are different ways to do such an analysis. Let me think a little bit and come up with something engaging. Over the years, I have seen fellow members here criticise those that dare criticise Dream Theater's productions, maybe I can help put things in context.

For what it's worth, I would be interested in this as well.

[CraftyCaleb2483]

Interesting idea, this. Let me think about this a little because there are different ways to do such an analysis. Let me think a little bit and come up with something engaging. Over the years, I have seen fellow members here criticise those that dare criticise Dream Theater's productions, maybe I can help put things in context.

I'm not a naturally talented person. I often need an academic approach to whatever I'm doing, break it down so I can learn it. I have met many individuals over the years who just have a knack for these things, I'm not one of them. This does provide for one advantage though, I get to know what each production choice can do in a lot more detail than many others that I know. I depend a lot less on experimentation at work.

I would also be very interested in this too, I've just started getting into production so knowing how my favourite band's albums are produced would be useful!

[SeRoX]

Not sure how "controversial" this will be but I think the upcoming PARASOMNIA N.A. fall tour will NOT be as well attended as the 40th anny shows.

That would be true if they book bigger venue like they did for their 40th anniversary. If not we can see almost full or sold-out shows again. Parasomnia is well recieved and I think they'll add some interesting and most wanted songs to their list like The Glass Prison and Learning To Live (with a big new vocal changes but f5 stays). That would fire up the hype.

[WilliamMunny]

I would also be very interested in this too, I've just started getting into production so knowing how my favourite band's albums are produced would be useful!

Yeah, count me in as well.

Bedroom producer and have probably made a dozen records at this point as part of a band (recorded a few for others as well), but for all of my experience, it's pretty much amateur hour when I'm involved.

I personally gravitate toward a lot of lo-fi, self-produced artists (objectionably well-produced bands, like Alter Bridge, literally do nothing for me sonically), so my skills have always suited my tastes.

That said, a pro's take on DT would be scheduled reading on my part.

[HOF]

Hollow Years on Once in a LiveTime >>>>>>> Hollow Years on Budokan

[CraftyCaleb2483]

Hollow Years on Once in a LiveTime >>>>>>> Hollow Years on Budokan

Yeah that is controversial 

[durga2112]

Wow, I actually forgot that "Hollow Years" is even on Once in a Livetime, and I love that album!

[gzarruk]

Yeah that is controversial 

Indeed!

[ReaperKK]

Wow, I actually forgot that "Hollow Years" is even on Once in a Livetime, and I love that album!

I forget once in a livetime even exists, it's my least favorite live album

[CraftyCaleb2483]

I listened to a couple of tracks from Livetime just now, my headphones really hated the mix, it was so crackly

[HOF]

Of the live DT albums I own (everything through Score), OiaLT has the best sound aside from maybe Score. Live Scenes and Budokan sound really squishy and weak to my ears, where OiaLT is full, clear, and live sounding. The drums especially. Vocals aren't great, and some of the performances are messy overall, but that is what it is (Score is a much better overall performance by the band, they were really at the top of their game in that one).

As for Hollow Years, that acoustic intro is really great, and it stays true to the essence of the song where Budokan obviously tramples over everything that is good and right in the world.

I'm also a really big fan of the OiaLT rendition of Take Away My Pain (Jay Beckenstein FTW). Those two back to back are really great opening that second disc (I guess Trial of Tears opens it, so a great back to back to back collection of tracks to open disc 2).

[Cool Chris]

I forget once in a livetime even exists

Lol me too!

[WilliamMunny]

Of the live DT albums I own (everything through Score), OiaLT has the best sound aside from maybe Score. Live Scenes and Budokan sound really squishy and weak to my ears, where OiaLT is full, clear, and live sounding. The drums especially. Vocals aren't great, and some of the performances are messy overall, but that is what it is (Score is a much better overall performance by the band, they were really at the top of their game in that one).

As for Hollow Years, that acoustic intro is really great, and it stays true to the essence of the song where Budokan obviously tramples over everything that is good and right in the world.

I'm also a really big fan of the OiaLT rendition of Take Away My Pain (Jay Beckenstein FTW). Those two back to back are really great opening that second disc (I guess Trial of Tears opens it, so a great back to back to back collection of tracks to open disc 2).

Word for word, you and me both!

I think the version of "Trial of Tears" on there is the perfect tempo, and while JLB is a bit lackluster on songs like "Voices" and "Take the Time," I think songs like "Peruvian Skies" and "Lines in the Sand" sound freaking amazing.

[dualpalmpilots]

Not sure how "controversial" this will be but I think the upcoming PARASOMNIA N.A. fall tour will NOT be as well attended as the 40th anny shows.

I think this is probably right on, and if the band's team is smart, they'll book venues like they were playing for the DoT/SFAM 20th tour and the first NA leg of the View tour.

[Dream Team]

Not sure how "controversial" this will be but I think the upcoming PARASOMNIA N.A. fall tour will NOT be as well attended as the 40th anny shows.

Probably true, but also pathetic. DT are not a "nostalgia" band yet and their fans should be more excited for a fresh setlist and new songs than hearing the same ones for the 300th time.

[hefdaddy42]

Probably true, but also pathetic. DT are not a "nostalgia" band yet and their fans should be more excited for a fresh setlist and new songs than hearing the same ones for the 300th time.

Come on.  No band that has been around that long has fans that are more excited for something new than for the classic shit they already know.

[HOF]

Yeah, seems unreasonable to expect fans to be as excited to see the new album live as they were to see the classics with the original drummer for the first time in 20 years or whatever.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Probably true, but also pathetic. DT are not a "nostalgia" band yet and their fans should be more excited for a fresh setlist and new songs than hearing the same ones for the 300th time.

It's probably true of most bands that have been around for this long. Also I would say we don't know if they're in nostalgia band territory yet. Parasomnia certainly didn't make a strong case they're not.

[Kocak]

DT are not a "nostalgia" band yet

As sad as this might be, they are. Unfortunately, they made that decision by writing Parasomnia. The album itself matters very little for the 40th anniversary tour or any upcoming tour. Barring a few exceptions, the last 20 years are of little consideration for most fans deciding to attend a concert. They could play bits of old tracks and spend the rest of a two-hour set jamming and the attendance rate wouldn't change all that much.

Sad, but true.

[Lonk]

As sad as this might be, they are. Unfortunately, they made that decision by writing Parasomnia. The album itself matters very little for the 40th anniversary tour or any upcoming tour.

Not sure how that's true, when the expected fall tour will feature Parasomnia in its entirety.

I don't think they are a nostalgia band (yet), though they could very well reach that by 2026, depending on what they decide to do. But I also don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, given they've been around for 40 years.

[HOF]

I don't think it is fair to call them a nostalgia band when they are still regularly producing new material. But it is also unfair to expect nostalgia not to play a large role in their product (weather the live shows or the sound of their music) at this point in their history.

[Kocak]

Not sure how that's true, when the expected fall tour will feature Parasomnia in its entirety.

I don't think they are a nostalgia band (yet), though they could very well reach that by 2026, depending on what they decide to do. But I also don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, given they've been around for 40 years.

Releasing a new album regularly does not mean they are not a nostalgia band. They still rely heavily on their previous success (Rightfully and understandably so.) The albums matter very little in the grand scheme of things. Fans do not go to the live shows to hear Midnight Messiah, they go for Pull Me Under. The new albums are just there as an attempt to sustain relevance but I think what I consider to be their mistake here is that they think that more of the same will work for them. It doesn't. Bringing Mike Portnoy back is, unfortunately, a last ditch attempt. If Parasomnia was an album that broke new ground for Dream Theater, I wouldn't be arguing what I'm arguing right now.

This is a very common thing. Other bands go through similar things. I know that Akerfeldt would love nothing more than dropping all the pre-Heritage albums off their sets, but he simply can't.

I don't think it is fair to call them a nostalgia band when they are still regularly producing new material. But it is also unfair to expect nostalgia not to play a large role in their product (weather the live shows or the sound of their music) at this point in their history.

Again, regular releases do not mean what people think it means. They are riding the reunion wave, not the Parasomnia wave. They can focus on Parasomnia for the next tour if they wish to, but the attendance won't be for the album.

As I said above, I don't expect them to not rely on their older material. It's only natural.

[Lonk]

Releasing a new album regularly does not mean they are not a nostalgia band. They still rely heavily on their previous success (Rightfully and understandably so.) The albums matter very little in the grand scheme of things. Fans do not go to the live shows to hear Midnight Messiah, they go for Pull Me Under. The new albums are just there as an attempt to sustain relevance but I think what I consider to be their mistake here is that they think that more of the same will work for them. It doesn't. Bringing Mike Portnoy back is, unfortunately, a last ditch attempt. If Parasomnia was an album that broke new ground for Dream Theater, I wouldn't be arguing what I'm arguing right now.

This is a very common thing. Other bands go through similar things. I know that Akerfeldt would love nothing more than dropping all the pre-Heritage albums off their sets, but he simply can't.

Gotcha, that makes sense and I agree.

I was going to comment that bringing Portnoy back pushed them a lot closer to the Nostalgia titled than they previously were, I'm just not ready to label them that just yet.

[Kocak]

Gotcha, that makes sense and I agree.

I was going to comment that bringing Portnoy back pushed them a lot closer to the Nostalgia titled than they previously were, I'm just not ready to label them that just yet.

I understand the sentimentality, I really do. It's just that I am incapable of being that sentimental about anything relating to the music business.

If Dream Theater were to be playing and filling bigger venues post-Portnoy or if Portnoy had massive success with Sons of Apollo, we would not be talking about the reunion today. I'm pretty sure we'd be discussing a Portnoy statement regarding what a massive success Sons of Apollo is and how they're selling out and how this is not a side project and the main focus for everyone involved etc. However, I do prefer the humbled, mellow Portnoy.

I'm glad that they are friends, I'm glad that they get along. That's their personal life. The band is a business.

If they record a next album, and if this next album surprises me, I promise to eat my words.

[emtee]

In my view, nowhere close to "nostalgia" territory. They continue to create music I love. The Parasomnia in full will be the main reason for me buying any live release of that tour.

[HOF]

It's all semantics, since it's not like there is some objective definition of a "nostalgia" band. But I don't think it's at all fair to lump DT into the category of like the 80s hair metal bands doing the state fair and motorcycle festival circuit on the strength of their 1987 chart-topping power ballad or whatever.

[Kram]

In my view, nowhere close to "nostalgia" territory. They continue to create music I love. The Parasomnia in full will be the main reason for me buying any live release of that tour.

Agreed!  I'm way more excited to see them perform all of Parasomnia than I was to see them play Pull Me Under or Metropolis or whatever for the 1,000 time (though it was nice to finally see Octavarium live).

[TAC]

I don't think Dream Theater is in any way a nostalgia act. I mean, they have now done a couple of nostalgia tours (I&W&B, Distant Memories, 40th Anniversary), but I don't think that's a deciding factor.

Releasing a new album regularly does not mean they are not a nostalgia band.

This is true, and I look at bands like Alice Cooper, UFO, and Def Leppard, where you might get a token new song or two, and the rest is the same old setlist.
This isn't where Dream Theater is. You either support a new album on tour or you don't, and DT is still supporting their new albums.

[HOF]

I think "legacy act"  might be a more fitting description of older bands who still tour on the strength of a notable back catalog, even if they are continuing to release new music that is well received by their fans or the broader public.

"Nostalgia act" feels more like a band who either rarely or never makes new music, and if they do nobody is buying it because they don't want to hear new stuff from that band, and they can really only draw a crowd who is interested in reliving the band's glory days from decades past.

I don't think DT is either, really. They still release new music to an audience who is fairly enthusiastic about their current stuff. But they might be closer to a legacy act probably these days than, say, back before MP left.

[TAC]

I think "legacy act"  might be a more fitting description of older bands who still tour on the strength of a notable back catalog, even if they are continuing to release new music that is well received by their fans or the broader public.

This is fair, definitely.

I don't think DT is either, really. They still release new music to an audience who is fairly enthusiastic about their current stuff. But they might be closer to a legacy act probably these days than, say, back before MP left.

I think, at this point in their career, it's fair to call DT a legacy band. I mean, they've created a legacy for themselves. They are a genre defining band.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

It's all semantics, since it's not like there is some objective definition of a "nostalgia" band. But I don't think it's at all fair to lump DT into the category of like the 80s hair metal bands doing the state fair and motorcycle festival circuit on the strength of their 1987 chart-topping power ballad or whatever.

Well they did come a decade after the hair metal bands of the 80s. Are they now? I've honestly not made up my mind though I do suspect that creatively, the well is very empty. I can't think of many alternative explanations for why so many moments of Parasomnia sound strikingly like songs they wrote in the late 2000s.

[MidnightSlice]

It's all semantics, since it's not like there is some objective definition of a "nostalgia" band. But I don't think it's at all fair to lump DT into the category of like the 80s hair metal bands doing the state fair and motorcycle festival circuit on the strength of their 1987 chart-topping power ballad or whatever.

Chart topping power ballads are amazing, especially at a motorcycle festival.