Marco Minnemann on DT

[BlobVanDam]

I didn't really think about whether the guys auditioning knew that the footage was definitely being used for a public video release. In that case, they may have seen the contract as more of a release for rights just to cover themselves legally (common enough that they may not have given it a second thought).
I don't see it as any intentional deception on DT's part, although I see where Marco is coming from with that. But I still find his conduct with this to be highly unprofessional for someone of his experience.

[rumborak]

It is, indeed. But, as I said, neither side comes clean off this one. I trust Marco enough to not make a public stink if he didn't think DT did something sketchy on their part.

rumborak

[Nekov]

[Resonate]

All the guys, with the exception of Marco I think, were shot outside the audition room in a "documentary style" manner by the documentary film crew.  Mangini and Wildoer also filmed themselves at home before and after their auditions, at the request of DT management.  I can't recall Marco participating in any extra shooting, but the other guys did.  It gave the impression that they knew they were shooting a doc.  Otherwise, why shoot anything outside the actual audition room.  Why film Mangini and Roddy in their hotel rooms, etc. if that footage wasn't going into a doc. For the public, or DT fans in particular to view.  What Marco knew before he got to the audition room is harder to say.  Hard to see everyone else being told about the doc though, and not Marco.  So exactly what happened with him or what the understanding was is confusing compared to the other guys.

It also seems like the issue is more about the way the doc was put together, which Roddy said some of the drummers didn't like.  In Marco's case though, he came off looking excellent.  He was not presented as having "lost" the audition due to some lack of skill.  It was made clear that the guys in DT thought very highly of his skills. And they still do since JP and JR both placed his Aristocrats album in their Top 10 albums of the year.  Whatever anyone thinks about the actual documentary itself, Marco came off looking fantastic in it. Hope he can reach an understanding eventually with DT about what happened and keep his friendship with the guys.

[Bertielee]

Remain friends with the guys? I don't know, but someone telling me FU following the complaints he expressed is not friends with me. For God's sake, even if 5 minutes just before he auditioned, he GAVE his authorization : he didn't agree? He could have left! For me, MM appeared as someone very likeable and as a great drummer in the doco. Now, he appears as someone whiney  and, as I said before, very MPish. Plus, sorry guys, for those who go with MM (and I can understand that) : we cannot say he's right and blame MP for the same conduct at the same time.

B.Lee

[Resonate]

I don't know, but someone telling me FU following the complaints he expressed is not friends with me.

B.Lee

Believe me, I feel exactly the same way about that.  If anything can be resolved, great. If not, it's a shame because I don't think Marco needed to take things to this level.

[Nekov]

Marco was shot outside the audition commenting on each song he played.

[Resonate]

Marco was shot outside the audition commenting on each song he played.

I should have watched again.  I could clearly remember the other guys outside the audition but couldn't remember seeing Marco outside.   So since he was shot outside, it seems like he would have known beforehand like the other guys that DT was shooting a documentary.  He came across so well with his playing and I think DT really got across onscreen how highly they regarded his audition. I know some of the drummers and fans did not like the doc, but I really think it was done with the intentions of sharing the process and easing the transition to the new drummer more than anything else.

[champbassist]

Marco was shot outside the audition commenting on each song he played.

That's right  He must've known he was going to be a "part of a soap opera video".

[7StringedBeast]

I think a lot is getting lost in the interpretation of these posts by Marco.  He seems like a real upbeat and humorous person.  I doubt highly that he is anywhere near as upset as anyone in this thread. 

Also, I don't think either side is at fault for anything.  Marco signed a release for the video, DT used his footage.  If anything I'm sure he would be mad at the management or the production company than the guys in DT.  I highly doubt he is pissed at the band members.

[Bertielee]

I think a lot is getting lost in the interpretation of these posts by Marco.  He seems like a real upbeat and humorous person.  I doubt highly that he is anywhere near as upset as anyone in this thread. 

Also, I don't think either side is at fault for anything.  Marco signed a release for the video, DT used his footage.  If anything I'm sure he would be mad at the management or the production company than the guys in DT.  I highly doubt he is pissed at the band members.

Sorry, but "FU DT" is pretty clear for me and involves everybody in the DT camp, even the band.

B.Lee

[BlobVanDam]

I'm pretty sure the comments about "broken promises" of working on his CD were aimed at DT directly. I doubt such promises were made by management.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I hope he sorts out his problems with JR, considering they appear to be very good friends.

[KevShmev]

Er, no one held a gun to this guy's head and made him audition.  If he didn't like the idea of the documentary, then he shouldn't have taken part in the audition.  Simple as that.  He can talk about the unwritten gentleman's agreement all he wants, but if he signed something that gave them the right to use him in it, then it is his own fault.  No one forced him to sign anything. 

[kirksnosehair]

Er, no one held a gun to this guy's head and made him audition.  If he didn't like the idea of the documentary, then he shouldn't have taken part in the audition.  Simple as that.  He can talk about the unwritten gentleman's agreement all he wants, but if he signed something that gave them the right to use him in it, then it is his own fault.  No one forced him to sign anything.

And we have a winner.   

[Gorille85]

It's funny how everyone is taking DT's side, calling Marco a whiner and whatnot. Not really surprising though.

[Millais]

the amount of conspiracy theories here...

[lithium112]

It's funny how everyone is taking DT's side, calling Marco a whiner and whatnot. Not really surprising though.

Well, now that the whole MP issue has died down people need someone to complain about. I agree though. Not surprising.

[a51502112]

Well. Isn't this a dramatic turn of events.

[GunsOfThePatriots]

not Really suprising from DT . after all it is a Business . an empire

ASSAULT in 3 2 1 GO

[nestcmartin]

Well, seems like Marco has deleted his own comments in Facebook, am I the only one seeing that? https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10150422214608773&id=60833133772

[zipporaid]

F U DTF ;-)

[slycordinator]

He said the contract he signed stated he could opt out of having his footage being used. Unless you're saying the naive part was to expect DT management to abide by the contract.

Actually, he said he had a "written gentlemen's agreement" that said that, which was separate from the contract he was given right before going into the auditions.

[Priest of Syrinx]

It's funny how everyone is taking DT's side, calling Marco a whiner and whatnot. Not really surprising though.

I agree.  Absolutely astonishing that the folks on Dreamtheaterforums.org would take DT's side. 

This sums it up best:

Er, no one held a gun to this guy's head and made him audition.  If he didn't like the idea of the documentary, then he shouldn't have taken part in the audition.  Simple as that.  He can talk about the unwritten gentleman's agreement all he wants, but if he signed something that gave them the right to use him in it, then it is his own fault.  No one forced him to sign anything. 

[SnakeEyes]

It's funny how everyone is taking DT's side, calling Marco a whiner and whatnot. Not really surprising though.

This is nonsense.  I, personally, have criticized DT MANY times for various things.  But, sorry, saying, "F-U DT" is just immature and makes him sound like he's just a sore loser.  Secondly, I like how he tries to downplay how much of a DT fan he was.... as if he "didn't really want" the gig, but "they asked him," so he had to accept the offer.... like he's SO amazing and these peasants in DT - that he was never really a fan of - (insert eye rolling here) asked him to be in their little band.  He comes across like a total snot in those posts. 

[rumborak]

SnakeEyes, what he's saying is pretty much in line with what other drummers have said though too, that other than MM and Metal Pez, they weren't really all that gaga about joining DT. Because let's face it, it's not really that pleasant a gig for an artist. You come into a band with 20 years of material, and you have zero leeway in how to play it because you're following in the footsteps of a famous drummer. AND, for the first new album you have very limited input. MM was willing to do that, but drummers like Donati, Lang and Minnemann probably said "errr, sure, I'll show up, but we will have to talk about those things". Look at the documentary, other than MM nobody played the songs to the tee but instead put their own twists onto things, probably for good reason.

rumborak

[SnakeEyes]

rumborak, I think that's B.S.  Not you, but what those drummers say, I mean.  DT is THE BIGGEST "prog" band in the world right now.  ANY musician would do anything, aside from cutting his own nuts off, to be in DT.  They all looked pretty damn thrilled to be there to me. 

[rumborak]

Come on, dude, seriously?

I think you are grossly overestimating how DT is perceived outside the prog metal scene. It's a well-paying gig, that's for sure. But for someone stepping in 20 years into the band, artistically it's really not that great.
And, even though I personally don't mind it, DT can be somewhat sterile and over-bearing. That's not everybody's taste. Marco is right now touring with Steven Wilson for Grace for Drowning, and I would say musically it's a better deal for him.

rumborak

[Cool Chris]

rumborak, I think that's B.S.  Not you, but what those drummers say, I mean.  DT is THE BIGGEST "prog" band in the world right now.  ANY musician would do anything, aside from cutting his own nuts off, to be in DT.  They all looked pretty damn thrilled to be there to me. 

That one dude wanted to tend to his snakes or whatever, he basically said so himself (not in the documentary, of course). Being in a band doesn't necessarily mean being in the 'best' band, but being in the best band for each individual. DT was the best job for Mangini, and Mangini was the best man for the job.  That documentary could have been skewed to his favor in post-production, but you can't watch that objectively and think they could have picked any of the other 6.

edit: rumborak is right too, James Bond is probably the best known character in film history, yet there is a canon and established character there, and some actors might not want to pursue the role if it was offered to them, preferring to do other projects that allow them more independence, artistic creativity, whatever.

[rumborak]

Exactly. Once you join DT, your artistic options are very limited. It's a very specific style of drumming, and DT are sticking to it very strictly.

EDIT: BTW, I'm not saying Marco or any of the others went into this saying "whatever, I don't care about DT anyway", but I don't think they would have cut off their left nut to be in DT. They all made it clear musically in the audition that they have no intention of playing DT's older material exactly like MP did, and I think that says a lot about how they went into the auditions.

rumborak

[SnakeEyes]

rumborak, please.  Minnemann WANTED the DT gig.  They ALL did.  Badly.  Otherwise they wouldn't have been there.  Nothing will convince me otherwise.   

[rumborak]

Ok then. No point in further discussing this.

rumborak

[El Barto]

I believe it was also stated that being in DT is essentially a full time job, with recording, touring and then a very brief down time.  Unless you're a workaholic,  it's pretty much the only music you're going to be making.  I can certainly see how plenty of people wouldn't want to pigeon-hole themselves into one full time gig,  especially if they're not even that crazy about the music.  It's really not something you're going to want to do unless it's a perfect marriage,  and for half those guys it probably wasn't.

And there's plenty of motivation to attend the thing, even if you're not totally sold on it.  For one thing, job offers don't grow on trees.  Also,  get together with them and see if it might be a better deal than you're imagining.  Just because they showed up doesn't mean they were creaming themselves at the opportunity.  Hell, even if I knew I didn't want the gig,  I'd have done it just for the experience.

[rumborak]

And for potential further collaborations with the guys. Networking is a necessity in that business, if you have the chance to meet those guys one-on-one and showcase your skills, you don't turn that down.

rumborak

[SystematicThought]

I think everyone but Roddy was willing to take the gig. Post documentary, he went on about how he just did it because he was asked and that DT would have taken away from what he lives to do which is side projects.