Marco Minnemann on DT

[SnakeEyes]

It's pretty dickish to waste DT's time and money if they didn't even want the job and just did it "for fun" or "because they asked me too". I'm sure word get's around quick in the drumming world, so I seriously doubt they didn't know DT was serious about finding a new drummer, and that that's what these auditions were for. If Marco didn't want his footage shown, he shouldn't have agreed to sit in the make up chair, the interview chair, and in front of the damn cameras.

YOU WIN.  Best post of the thread. 

[tristl]

ä lot of blah blah about nothing.
but i will try this joke the next time i sign a contract:
hey guys i signed it , but you promised me it doesn't mean anything!?
get real, i always thought the music business is though and cruel.
the other thing i don't understand:
if you do not give a fuck about DT, why audition?

[jdprsaga]

(What's your opinion on the album?)

I really liked it, my favorite song so long is "I want a parrot", "furtive jack" in a second place.

I think the album in the first listen showcase more the guitar player, but that's maybe cause i play guitar myself. The overall sound of the album is kind of like a very good mix between Eric Johnson (mellow/jazzy stuff) and Joe Satriani (guitar effect sounds like him).. with a little subtle hint of Liquid Tension.

On MM, i can say it's very groovy and very very tasty and classy. great sound, i liked the "latin" vibe on furtive jack.. altho i have to listen to it a bit more to completely appreciate his drumming (just listened to the whole album once yesterdey, bought the mp3 album on amazon)

[rumborak]

It's pretty dickish to waste DT's time and money if they didn't even want the job and just did it "for fun" or "because they asked me too". I'm sure word get's around quick in the drumming world, so I seriously doubt they didn't know DT was serious about finding a new drummer, and that that's what these auditions were for. If Marco didn't want his footage shown, he shouldn't have agreed to sit in the make up chair, the interview chair, and in front of the damn cameras.

Is it so impossible to not think in black or white? As reneranucci likened so excellent, it's like going to a job interview even though you can currently maintain yourself quite well financially. You were asked to come in, it's an interesting opportunity for sure, so you check it out. But, from that standpoint of financial security, you can also safely make demands. In the example of Marco, to not abandon his side projects.
Also, I mean was there ever a chance of Virgil Donati joining Dream Theater? I mean, really? Was he a dick too then for showing up?

rumborak

[El Barto]

It's pretty dickish to waste DT's time and money if they didn't even want the job and just did it "for fun" or "because they asked me too". I'm sure word get's around quick in the drumming world, so I seriously doubt they didn't know DT was serious about finding a new drummer, and that that's what these auditions were for. If Marco didn't want his footage shown, he shouldn't have agreed to sit in the make up chair, the interview chair, and in front of the damn cameras.

Nonsense.  As has already been pointed out,  this thing was an interview for both parties.  Roddy or Pez both have every right to say they're going to attend to see if DT is a good fit for them,  and not just the other way around.  And for that matter,  how do we know DT hadn't already decided on one or two of the participants,  and had seven come along for the sake of their reality show?  Does anybody think Metal Pez was really ever in contention?

[Gorille85]

I think DT WANTED to have as many drummers of high caliber invited as possible even if they didn't care just to make a cool DVD.

[rumborak]

Exactly. I think DT filled up the ranks quite a bit with drummers they knew would make for interesting watching, but not really being that good a fit for Dream Theater anyway. Pez and Donati were the obvious examples I thought. And Lang.

rumborak

[Zook]

So it's OK to accept $500 and free hotel accommodations, and then bitch when DT uses your footage of an audition you were apart of and knew they were filming with intentions of showing the world. Even if they did cut out his footage, he'd just look like a tool anyway for not wanting his audition shown.

"7 of the greatest drummers will be auditioning to be Dream Theater's new drummer..... But you'll only see 6 of them, because one of them doesn't like soap opera videos and didn't want his drumming shown... Yet, then did he bother answering interviews in front of a camera? Did he not know it was recording? Find out next time on DRAGONBALL Z!"

[Nekov]

Obviously he did agree to all of that. What I think he didn't like is the way they turned it into a soap opera. I think if DT had just shown the auditions and at the end shown their choice he wouldn't be saying all these things right now. I know I wouldn't be very happy if I signed for a drummer audition and ended up being part of a lameass reality show melodrama.

[Millais]

You can tell clearly by the video which drummers wanted to be there (showing passion for it and had actually learn their parts) and who was just there to see what happened.

For passion: Obviously Mangini but Peter Wildoer. huge amount of respect for him now!

[Cool Chris]

Who is "Pez" and how did he get that name??

Wildoer did seem a little like a kid in a candy store, but if he felt like he wasn't going in with good chances of getting the job, it sure as hell didn't stop him from busting ass and giving 100%. And he seemed humble throughout, even letting them film and air his rejection call.

[lithium112]

You can tell clearly by the video which drummers wanted to be there (showing passion for it and had actually learn their parts) and who was just there to see what happened.

For passion: Obviously Mangini but Peter Wildoer. huge amount of respect for him now!

Wildoer is a boss. I would have welcomed his drumming (and his growls ) to the band. But of course Mangini is killer too, so no complaints regarding the outcome.

Who is "Pez" and how did he get that name??

that's Aquiles Priester.. someone made a joke earlier in this thread (rumborak I think) about how he came straight out of the metal pez dispenser lol

[Stin64]

Looks like he edited his comment - I don't see what you quoted when I click on the link.

I have a drummer friend who's close to Marco, and he was under the impression that DT offered Marco the gig, but he "preferred being on his own," so declined. I don't think that's true - after seeing this I'm starting to think it was Marco's way of covering up his sour grapes.

[rumborak]

I find it unlikely that an established drummer who's touring with Steven Wilson these days has the need to "cover up his sour grapes".
Note that for the three runner-ups in the audition according to DT, i.e. Mangini, Wildoer and Minnemann, only the Minnemann call was conspicuously absent. We will of course never know and it's all wild speculation, but the reason might simply also be that Mangini's call was made AFTER Minnemann's call, who rejected their offer.

rumborak

[j]

I find it unlikely that an established drummer who's touring with Steven Wilson these days has the need to "cover up his sour grapes".
Note that for the three runner-ups in the audition according to DT, i.e. Mangini, Wildoer and Minnemann, only the Minnemann call was conspicuously absent. We will of course never know and it's all wild speculation, but the reason might simply also be that Mangini's call was made AFTER Minnemann's call, who rejected their offer.

rumborak

Maybe, but it seems more likely that once they had it down to two, they just showed the call to the "winner" to capitalize on the suspense, etc.  Isn't that sort of standard practice for stuff like this?

-J

[rumborak]

That can definitely be a reason too, no doubt. You don't really want to show more than one turn-down, one is enough. That said, up until that point in the documentary, Marco and MM are the clear top 2. Peter Wildoer really only gets mentioned once as part of the top 3, but other than that there's very little mention of him, whereas they constantly talk about MM and Marco.
All I'm saying is that it is not completely unthinkable that indeed they wanted Marco, but he turned it down and they then called MM. Note also how MM mentioned what a long time passed before they called him.

rumborak

[Setlist Scotty]

For starters, I stand corrected on what I posted earlier - I guess Marco wasn't just joking around. And I'll admit that I've lost a little respect for the man. But honestly I'd chalk it up to more of a misunderstanding than anything else - as others have pointed out in this thread, he was probably understanding things one way, while the band and/or management understood them in a different way.

But there's something that's been bugging me, reading this thread: SnakeEyes, sorry dude but you come off like an immature hot-head, even if you've been a fan since 1993.

Yeah, especially a douchey "nom nom" shirt.  I don't know what it is, but people who wear shirts like that piss me off.

Really? Would you been pissed at Mangini if he had been the one to wear that shirt? Would you have been pissed if Marco had become DT's new drummer? If that pisses you off, I'd hate to see how ballistic you'll get if someone does something far worse than wear a cookie monster T-shirt. Sheesh.

It's pretty dickish to waste DT's time and money if they didn't even want the job and just did it "for fun" or "because they asked me too". I'm sure word get's around quick in the drumming world, so I seriously doubt they didn't know DT was serious about finding a new drummer, and that that's what these auditions were for. If Marco didn't want his footage shown, he shouldn't have agreed to sit in the make up chair, the interview chair, and in front of the damn cameras.

YOU WIN.  Best post of the thread.

Seriously SnakeEyes, read or re-read Reneranucci's post regarding going on job interviews - that is what Marco essentially did. He didn't have plans to join the band, but thought he'd give it a shot because maybe things will be much better than he anticipated. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.

Exactly. I think DT filled up the ranks quite a bit with drummers they knew would make for interesting watching, but not really being that good a fit for Dream Theater anyway. Pez and Donati were the obvious examples I thought. And Lang.

Rumbo, been agreeing with you in almost all your posts in this thread, but I think you are WAAAYYYY off on this one. I think it's as clear and simple as the band stated - they searched the internet and forums to see what drummers names came up repeatedly, and reached out to them to see if they'd be interesting in auditioning for the band. I doubt it had anything to do with them just looking for some guys that would look good on the documentary - if they did, why not choose some crazy jazz drummers or maybe the "drummer at the wrong gig?" - that would have made things interesting on screen.

Just because some guys don't look like they'd fit in the band after watching the documentary doesn't mean that DT saw it this way when contacting them, nor would they have cared - no one would know who worked out and who wouldn't until they actually auditioned. Obviously they reached out to these guys, not only because they thought they could play DT's back catalog, but because they thought these guys could reasonably be the next drummer of DT. Let's also remember that a lot can be done in editing the documentary to make it look boring or make it look interesting - I'm sure there were plenty of clips of each drummer that were not as impressive/flashy that weren't used because they wouldn't have been eye-catching to the viewer.

I have a drummer friend who's close to Marco, and he was under the impression that DT offered Marco the gig, but he "preferred being on his own," so declined. I don't think that's true - after seeing this I'm starting to think it was Marco's way of covering up his sour grapes.

Sorry Stin - gotta agree with Rumbo on this one. This isn't Marco's way of covering up for his sour grapes. When I spoke with Marco (as mentioned earlier in the thread), we got to talking about Mangini being chosen and what happened, and from what he told me, it sounded like he would have gotten the gig if he wanted it. But he said that his heart wasn't really into it, that he didn't know if he could make the commitment; he also said that seeing how excited Mangini was in wanting the gig, figured that Mangini should be the one to have it.

He also mention that he, JP and Jordan had plans to do some sort of project (and by that he specified a CD) together - had he not impressed them enough, why did the guys agree to do some other project with him? There's no word of them doing that with *any* of the others that auditioned. Let's not forget the comments James made about Marco in the documentary: "I was speechless watching this guy." Also he said "That was...the most incredible...by far." and JP responding "Yeah, easily." So I think that's enough evidence to back up what Marco said, even if the end of the documentary suggests otherwise (that Mangini was the clear winner from the beginning).

And for the record (not that it matters), I was bummed when Marco didn't get the gig, but having seen 3 shows with Mangini now, as well as how well Mangini has fit into the band and his positive attitude in everything he has said, I can't imagine Marco being there. I'm glad Mangini got picked in the end. I just hope Marco still gets to do that project with JP and Jordan - if they do, I'm sure it will be mind-blowing!

[rumborak]

Scotty, agree almost 100% with all you said there. Regarding your comment towards my post, I agree that they probably could imagine any of the drummers to be in DT in some fashion. But, I think there were wildly varying degrees of expectation. Pez and Donati are very removed from their type of music. Look at Donati; he's much more a jazz/fusion drummer, and it was clear from the first drum fill that he's not gonna change his style of drumming once he entered DT.
So, I would think Donati was a very long shot. Whereas Pez, I'm not sure why they invited him really. I mean, they knew he does all the writing in Angra; I'm sure they weren't expecting he would lay all that down?

Especially agree with your last paragraph. While style-wise I would have rather liked Marco in DT, passion-wise MM was the clear candidate to choose. DT ended up with the right drummer, that's crystal-clear.

rumborak

[Setlist Scotty]

So, I would think Donati was a very long shot. Whereas Pez, I'm not sure why they invited him really. I mean, they knew he does all the writing in Angra; I'm sure they weren't expecting he would lay all that down?

Actually, he didn't do any writing in Angra. For his band Hangar, yes he did all the writing, but I don't know if the DT guys knew that before auditioning him. Even if they did, they could have figured that he would be perfect for collaborating with in terms of songwriting. Don't forget that Marco also writes music on his own, so wouldn't that have disqualifed him too?

[rumborak]

I'm only bringing it up because they used it in the doc as the main reason for disqualification. And when I heard it, I thought "come on guys, you didn't realize that beforehand?"

rumborak

[Setlist Scotty]

I'm only bringing it up because they used it in the doc as the main reason for disqualification. And when I heard it, I thought "come on guys, you didn't realize that beforehand?"

Perhaps, but I'd call it creative editing. Or maybe when speaking with him, he told them that he only writes music by himself, thereby forcing them to either accept his songs without collaboration or not to include him in the songwriting process. Pure speculation I know - who knows why that was highlighted, but I doubt that was the only reason why they didn't choose him. For all we know, maybe the language barrier was too much (yes, he did speak English, but with a fairly strong accent). We'll never know, but I agree in hindsight that what was shown as the primary reason is pretty lame.

[slycordinator]

I'm only bringing it up because they used it in the doc as the main reason for disqualification. And when I heard it, I thought "come on guys, you didn't realize that beforehand?"

rumborak

That one felt, to me, like a bit of a cop-out. Compared to some of the others, he just plain botched some portions of the songs. Kind of akin to Marco's mentioning that it's very different from playing along with the CD. And they wanted to instead give the reason that he didn't fit in instead so that everyone's put in a good light. Of course, I could be wrong here.

[GunsOfThePatriots]

So Mike Mangini Now is like Newsted when he joined Metallica

[Bertielee]

So Mike Mangini Now is like Newsted when he joined Metallica

?

B.Lee

[GunsOfThePatriots]

I mean he will have little or no input to the Composition in DT

[Miyazaki74]

I mean he will have little or no input to the Composition in DT

We won't know that until the next album.

[Blackfield]

JR has said that they are writing new music and making new stuff up in rehearsals with Mike Mangini, so he is already contributing.

[Orion1967]

Exactly. I think DT filled up the ranks quite a bit with drummers they knew would make for interesting watching, but not really being that good a fit for Dream Theater anyway. Pez and Donati were the obvious examples I thought. And Lang.

rumborak

Gotta throw the bullshit flag....

I doubt that they would have wasted peoples time with auditions who they knew right out of the gate they had no interest in evaluating...  Sorry, just dont see it as it's not the style of the guys left in the band.

[Dublagent66]

There's always gonna be a certain amount of "going through the motions" when doing auditions.  Even though the members might think that certain candidates may not shall I say "fit in", they still want to see what they can do.

[Bertielee]

The amount of speculation is tremendous in this thread : what we know for sure because it was written, is that MM told DT "F U"" and given that he's expressed his resentment at other times, I don't think it was in jest. That's enough for me to have an idea.

B.Lee

[antigoon]

Dear whoever came up with the name Metal Pez.

I love you.

Love,
antigoon

[Jamesman42]

Dear whoever came up with the name Metal Pez.

I love you.

Love,
antigoon

HHAHAHA THIS !!!

[lyfeternl]

Dear whoever came up with the name Metal Pez.

I love you.

Love,
antigoon

This. 

[Bill Carson]

Sorry Stin - gotta agree with Rumbo on this one. This isn't Marco's way of covering up for his sour grapes. When I spoke with Marco (as mentioned earlier in the thread), we got to talking about Mangini being chosen and what happened, and from what he told me, it sounded like he would have gotten the gig if he wanted it. But he said that his heart wasn't really into it, that he didn't know if he could make the commitment; he also said that seeing how excited Mangini was in wanting the gig, figured that Mangini should be the one to have it.

He also mention that he, JP and Jordan had plans to do some sort of project (and by that he specified a CD) together - had he not impressed them enough, why did the guys agree to do some other project with him? There's no word of them doing that with *any* of the others that auditioned. Let's not forget the comments James made about Marco in the documentary: "I was speechless watching this guy." Also he said "That was...the most incredible...by far." and JP responding "Yeah, easily." So I think that's enough evidence to back up what Marco said, even if the end of the documentary suggests otherwise (that Mangini was the clear winner from the beginning).

And for the record (not that it matters), I was bummed when Marco didn't get the gig, but having seen 3 shows with Mangini now, as well as how well Mangini has fit into the band and his positive attitude in everything he has said, I can't imagine Marco being there. I'm glad Mangini got picked in the end. I just hope Marco still gets to do that project with JP and Jordan - if they do, I'm sure it will be mind-blowing!

That's exactly the information I had heard plus I totally agree with your last paragraph.

[Jaq]

I like how so many people are assuming that Marco is totally in the wrong and there isn't a possibility that someone, somewhere, in the DT camp-management, label, whatever-could have misrepresented to someone their intentions for the footage they filmed.

Not saying that's the case, but the mere NOTION of it isn't even occurring to people.