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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: dodido253 on December 11, 2011, 02:26:08 PM
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Marco on DT audition :
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10150422214608773&id=60833133772
Alex Choper
Wooooo!!! I will waiting for you, I see your videos every day so you inspired me :) you were the winner on DT Audition Regards!!
Marco Minnemann
I btw have an email where they promised me to not use the video if I don't want to. Well, they lied:-). But thanks for your kind words.
For the entire filming I received $500, broken promises about the release and collaborations on my new CD. And someone calling me and complaining he heard I was telling people in advance who the new drummer is. And on top of it I never got even send a copy. So FU DT, I'm sorry:-)
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Shame on you, DT.
rumborak
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Wouldn't this be on DT's management?
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Wouldn't this be on DT's management?
This.
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Wouldn't this be on DT's management?
This is what I was thinking...seems to me that the band wouldn't be the kind of people to go back on contractual stuff like not using video. And my guess is that Marco hasn't severed ties with all of DT. Steven Wilson mentioned that he met Marco because of Jordan, and Jordan/Marco's live jam thing was after the auditions.
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He got $500?
I'm confused at what this guy is complaining about.
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He got $500?
I'm confused at what this guy is complaining about.
What? He got compensated for his time, but was told he could have have his footage kept off the tape.
Mutual exclusivity, bro.
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If you've got a grain of salt lying around, take it with this. We've got one side of the story detailed very briefly and ambiguously (and the spelling doesn't help either).
Having said that, I'm sorry to hear the audition left a bad taste in Marco's mouth. He seemed to really enjoy his audition on the tape.
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$500 is a pittance for world-class musicians giving up an entire afternoon. I joined a cover band that plays 35-40 song sets with just me (bass), a singer/guitarist, and a drummer, and with rare exception, we play for a minimum of $100-a-man for a 4-hour show. Getting someone of Marco's caliber to set aside an entire work day to come out for something that may only end up giving him nothing more than a brief bit of niche market publicity is nothing short of a steal.
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$500 is a pittance for world-class musicians giving up an entire afternoon. I joined a cover band that plays 35-40 song sets with just me (bass), a singer/guitarist, and a drummer, and with rare exception, we play for a minimum of $100-a-man for a 4-hour show. Getting someone of Marco's caliber to set aside an entire work day to come out for something that may only end up giving him nothing more than a brief bit of niche market publicity is nothing short of a steal.
I don't know how this applies. Marco wasn't playing a show; he was auditioning for a spot in a band. The $500 was his compensation for the documentary, which won't generate any revenue on its own.
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I guess I can understand how he feels slighted but he kinda comes across as feeling more entitled. Wasn't there one other musician that was kinda miffed at this whole thing?
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Apparently he was also promised collaborations on his new CD that didn't materialize either. It's of course all business, but I can totally understand that he doesn't feel like praising DT (and he probably gets asked about the auditions all the time) when all tge has is a couple of bucks and having been screwed over.
rumborak
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I think Derek Roddy was too. @Madman Shepherd
I mean to be honest, I can see where Marco is coming from, but regarding the broken promises on collaborations, I think finding a new drummer and creating a new album/tour takes precedence over side projects at this time. So to me, Marco has just shot himself in the foot. Plus, if Marco wasn't too comfortable with having the footage shown, then maybe DT wasn't the band for him, as we the fans definitely wanted to see the footage (we even want to see more of the auditions) and the band wanted to record and release this moment in DT history.
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FU DT :-)
Maturity. :-)
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It's not about DT "not being the band for him". He was promised certain things when signing the contract for the auditions, and DT (management) reneged on it.
rumborak
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FU DT :-)
Maturity. :-)
I don't always agree with Jamesman42 posts...
But when I do, I always get rock hard.
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.............................. I don't get it. What's he mad about?
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I think Derek Roddy was too. @Madman Shepherd
I mean to be honest, I can see where Marco is coming from, but regarding the broken promises on collaborations, I think finding a new drummer and creating a new album/tour takes precedence over side projects at this time. So to me, Marco has just shot himself in the foot. Plus, if Marco wasn't too comfortable with having the footage shown, then maybe DT wasn't the band for him, as we the fans definitely wanted to see the footage (we even want to see more of the auditions) and the band wanted to record and release this moment in DT history.
I agree 100%. I also doubt that DT refused to do a side project with him...probably just more scheduling. They are a tad busy afterall and of course now it doesn't look like it'll happen.
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.............................. I don't get it. What's he mad about?
Doesn't even sound like he's really mad to be honest. Just sharing his annoyance to one of his facebook friends. If you were looking for someone to break it down it seems that:
1) Footage of him was released on the documentary and sounds like he didn't want them to release it.
2) He received a small amount of money for the filming.
3) Apparently he thought there was going to be some sort of collab with DT on his new CD which apparently didn't happen.
4) Someone from DT management (or possibly the band, but I doubt it) called him and accused him of telling people who the new drummer was.
5) No one in management had the courtesy to send him a copy of the documentary that he was on.
Anyway, it just sounds like the audition / documentary process wasn't a pleasant one for him and he explained that to someone on facebook. It's not really a big deal and I assume his relationship with the guys is ok since apparently him and Jordan were supposed to do something together at one point.
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Mmm... sad situation but didn't he plaid with Rudess after auditions? Also: all the promises were made by DT or their management? Anyway, it's an ugly thing to make promises and break them :tdwn
Anyway, I don't understand the "they didn't send me the cd!" part... why should they send it? :| (ok, if he's talking about "they didn't send me the docummetary" he's right :lol
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First off, if he was signing a contract for the audition and all these "promises" were not included in the contract, then shame on him. Reazd before you sign.
Second, if they said they'd collaborate on one of his CD's, then did he think they'd drop what they're doing right that second to do that? Maybe he should have just been patient and not burned bridges. Now he looks like a whiner, which he is.
Third, if he got paid $500 for the audition on top of his paid expenses to "apply for the job" then he did great. I wish somone would pay me $500 when I applied for a job. I mean come on, you're HOPING to land a job with a world famous band that will pay a lot. It's a HUGE HONOR just to get that chance. That's all. Anything else is wishful thinking.
Fourth, that's the music biz. Reliable burger flipping jobs are always available for those that don't like the shit that happens in that line of work.
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I understand why Marco is upset. I would be too in his situation.
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First off, if he was signing a contract for the audition and all these "promises" were not included in the contract, then shame on him. Reazd before you sign.
Second, if they said they'd collaborate on one of his CD's, then did he think they'd drop what they're doing right that second to do that? Maybe he should have just been patient and not burned bridges. Now he looks like a whiner, which he is.
Third, if he got paid $500 for the audition on top of his paid expenses to "apply for the job" then he did great. I wish somone would pay me $500 when I applied for a job. I mean come on, you're HOPING to land a job with a world famous band that will pay a lot. It's a HUGE HONOR just to get that chance. That's all. Anything else is wishful thinking.
Fourth, that's the music biz. Reliable burger flipping jobs are always available for those that don't like the shit that happens in that line of work.
There's the legal relationship he has with DT+management that's defined in the contract. Then there's the personal relationship and all the stuff they said to each other. If someone made a promise with him and didn't keep it then it's just a bad move, regardless of what's in the contract.
The way I understood the $500 thing is that they paid him for the documentary filming portion, not the actual audition.
Regarding things that happen in the music business, I'd say one of the most important things is having integrity and honesty. Now, there's nothing I know about the guys in DT that suggest that they don't have these qualities in boatloads, so I assume that if there was any miscommunication it would be on the side of the management.
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Not much to be upset about if you ask me. I bet he's annoyed with not being chosen. Too bad Marco :D
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Not much to be upset about if you ask me. I bet he's annoyed with not being chosen. Too bad Marco :D
Pretty sure he's not.
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I may be completely off on this, but I think the whole thing is a joke. I saw him at a gig in February and spoke with him inbetween sets, and he had nothing but nice things to say about the band. Granted, this was before the documentary was released, but with the smileys in his post, I wouldn't take what he said too seriously.
Also, when I spoke with him, he did mention that since they did have such great chemistry together, that he, JP and Jordan were going to do some sort of project together, strongly implying that it would be a side project. He NEVER said anything about them collaborating on a solo CD of his.
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Um, that's really unprofessional of him to write "f-you Dream Thaeter." Just the fact that he wrote that makes me not believe anything he says. Don't give him any attention, seems like that's what he wants to me....
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The fact that he tacked on "I'm sorry" after the "FU DT" makes me think he's being sincere.
Didn't Marco play a one-off show with Jordan as a result of the auditions? That alone should negate his complaining. He got something out of the auditions, five other guys can't even say that.
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(https://files.sharenator.com/he_mad_The_Ultimate_Graffiti_Guide-s352x300-95119-475.png)
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If Extreme thought us anything, it's that there are III sides to every story. I find some of these posts laughable, offering statements of fact when it's highly unlikely there is any knowledge of the facts.
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Wow, I'm shocked at how professional musicians (Portnoy, Minnemann, etc.) will blast other musicians/bands on social media this year for everyone to read. It's just so unprofessional. The business side of music can be ugly I'm sure, but it needs to stay behind closed doors. I was high on Minnemann after seeing him drum with Steven Wilson this year, but now I've lost respect. Even if there were aspects of his DT "arrangement" that didn't meet expectations or whatever, to publicly throw an "FU" at DT is just so immature, IMO. I hope JR and JP keep their distance from him from now on.
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I left my thoughts on FB, bad Marco! LOL
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The fact that he tacked on "I'm sorry" after the "FU DT" makes me think he's being sincere.
Yeah, and there's a sarcastic little "smile" after the, "I'm sorry." Nothing sincere about that, in my opinion. Even if he's completely telling the truth and absolutely right (which I don't believe, anyway), I think this was a douchey thing to do. Just my opinion.
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$500 is a pittance for world-class musicians giving up an entire afternoon. I joined a cover band that plays 35-40 song sets with just me (bass), a singer/guitarist, and a drummer, and with rare exception, we play for a minimum of $100-a-man for a 4-hour show. Getting someone of Marco's caliber to set aside an entire work day to come out for something that may only end up giving him nothing more than a brief bit of niche market publicity is nothing short of a steal.
I don't know how this applies. Marco wasn't playing a show; he was auditioning for a spot in a band. The $500 was his compensation for the documentary, which won't generate any revenue on its own.
If DT only had to shell out $500 each for the seven drummer prospects plus expenses then they barely had to shell out anything in the grand scheme of things. They had a new album partially or fully written that they were, for very good reason, quite satisfied with and would benefit substantially from being able to start touring in support of it with no lapse in band activity since never missing a beat helped them avoid any outsider doubts regarding the future of the band. Throw in the fact that they were able to assemble seven of their favorite drummers in the world for their own picking in order to insure the best fit and, for less than ten grand (most likely), they were able to keep the DT train rolling with zero momentum lost, likely gained some momentum, and thanks at least in some small way, saw A Dramatic Turn of Events chart in the top 10 in America. There probably are some out there that would've held off purchasing the album if they were convinced DT hadn't found a capable MP replacement or if they only had a temporary replacement since some folks may have been waiting to see DT live and figured "better get the new album so I'll be current on their material when I go out and see 'em."
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*snip*
:clap:
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Bad for Minnemann.
He's still my favorite drummer, though.
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Wow, I'm shocked at how professional musicians (Portnoy, Minnemann, etc.) will blast other musicians/bands on social media this year for everyone to read.
I'm not.
Well, let me clarify. I'm not shocked about it coming from Portnoy, but I am shocked about it coming from Minnemann. That is because in terms of adult-like behavior, I expect more from professional musicians than I do career-rockstars.
I think it has something to with how successful career-rockstars have been allowed to live-out their teenage fantasies before ever really having to hold-down a "real" jobs or live in the "real" world. It's not that what they do isn't important to the "real" world; it's just that they haven't gone through the same things that other people become more mature as a result of going through, like holding down a real job, where people have strong expectations about how you'll present yourself and how treat others publicly and privately. And hey, acting like a big-kid is what sells. It's what makes the kids listening think that you're cool, and that they too can one-day live as a teenager forever.
So, no, I'm not really surprised when I see a career-rockstar who still looks, talks, acts, and writes like a teenager. But for someone like Minneman, who has (I think) always leaned more towards "professional musician" than "career-rockstar", I do expect a little bit more in terms of tact and politeness. I mean, look at Mangini for example: Sure, he's a rock-star now, but he was also a professor of a University and has a lot of other real-world experience. He is someone who knows how to act like an adult with other adults in an adult environment, and it goes without saying that the difference between him and MP (or any other career-rockstar) in terms of how he's handled himself publicly thus-far is outstanding.
Of course, I'm not ruling out the idea that Minneman's only doing this because he's genuinely been shafted by the band and has ran out of other ways to voice his greviences. That is also real possibility. I guess time will tell.
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well i was expecting more news or footage from the drummer audition.
now that i got one about minnemann, i wish it was kept just sectret.
well... i think i must stop caring for any news regarding personal behaviour and just enjoy their music.
just sayin'.
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I don't think he harbors any deep hatred for DT, but he definitely sounds he feels they abused the situation to their favor.
DT aren't angels either. I can totally see them (in collaboration with their management) having decided "yeah, we told Marco we wouldn't release it, but given the potential marketing value of this, we'll just do it anyway. The likelihood of a lawsuit is low given the PR repercussions of such a move."
rumborak
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I don't think he harbors any deep hatred for DT, but he definitely sounds he feels they abused the situation to their favor.
DT aren't angels either.
Agreed. I guess you can say....
...they were standing on the backs of angels destined to create :lhk: :lhk:
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The fact that he tacked on "I'm sorry" after the "FU DT" makes me think he's being sincere.
Yeah, and there's a sarcastic little "smile" after the, "I'm sorry." Nothing sincere about that, in my opinion. Even if he's completely telling the truth and absolutely right (which I don't believe, anyway), I think this was a douchey thing to do. Just my opinion.
Yeah, I'm confused. Seems completely douchey to me, and passive aggressive. Inexcusable and highly unprofessional, whether any of it's true or not. Looks like DT definitely chose the right drummer here.
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Just out of curiosity, is it just the "FU DT" comment everyone is calling douchey?
Because that part was definitely uncalled for, but I didn't think the rest of it was at all bad.
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Remember, this is the guy who wore that OM NOM NOM cookie monster shirt at his AUDITION.
I'm sorry, but....lol
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Remember, this is the guy who wore that OM NOM NOM cookie monster shirt at his AUDITION.
I'm sorry, but....lol
That shirt was awesome.
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What a baby
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Remember, this is the guy who wore that OM NOM NOM cookie monster shirt at his AUDITION.
I'm sorry, but....lol
That shirt was awesome.
Yeah, wtf. He had hands-down the best outfit of all of them :lol
rumborak
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Hmm. Perhaps I'm being a hardass. If I was chosen to audition for a world-renowned, successful band, I would have worn a shirt that reflected how serious I was about it. His shirt would be fine at a concert or whatever, but the audition itself? It just looked silly. It's the same reason I wouldn't wear a tropical Hawaiian shirt at a job interview.
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Yeah, especially a douchey "nom nom" shirt. I don't know what it is, but people who wear shirts like that piss me off.
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I'm assuming he didn't know that the videos were ever going to see the outside world. And considering that, I would think he showed up with a nice and fun shirt. I actually kinda hated how some of the contestants were too stereotypically metal.
rumborak
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Marco seem so bitter. That is the wrong way to go about this situation. If he feels violated take it up with DT direct instead of twitter.
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What is so bad about DT having released the footage? Is he embarrassed? Or is it like Peter Wildoer's case where he didn't even want to be in the band and just did it for fun. Still doesn't explain why he didn't want the footage shown though.
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First of all, they must have signed some kind of contract including a release to use the footage. DT were completely within their rights to release it.
When they said they wouldn't use the footage if he didn't want them to, I'm sure they probably meant "let us know if you really don't want us to use the footage", and not "we're going to explicitly ask you again in future even though you already signed a release letting us use the footage and knew we were filming it". Minneman should watch his mouth in public instead of being so free with slanderous accusations like that.
It looked like DT paid for the accommodations, travel, etc, to give these people the opportunity to join one of the biggest prog metal bands, and he's bitching that he didn't get paid much for the experience? I'm surprised they got paid at all. It's an audition ffs. I wish I got paid to attend job interviews. If he expected to get paid on top of that just to attend an audition and let them film it, he didn't deserve to be there in the first place.
And is he complaining about not being sent a copy of the video? The one that was freely available for him to watch on Youtube? Or does he mean the full audition tape?
To me the whole thing comes across as a little naive and bitter. From the audition I really loved his playing, but I am so glad that Mangini got the gig instead. Seems he outclasses everyone.
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Marco should have taken the high road and the boost in popularity.
He was clearly a major league front runner for this gig. So much so that many DT fans wanted it to be his job. Why piss of DT fans who ended up really liking him??!!
Aim at foot....pull trigger!
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I agree with rumborak in this thread. If it is as Minnemann suggests, it's terrible and should never have happened.
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First of all, they must have signed some kind of contract including a release to use the footage. DT were completely within their rights to release it.
When they said they wouldn't use the footage if he didn't want them to, I'm sure they probably meant "let us know if you really don't want us to use the footage", and not "we're going to explicitly ask you again in future even though you already signed a release letting us use the footage and knew we were filming it". Minneman should watch his mouth in public instead of being so free with slanderous accusations like that.
It looked like DT paid for the accommodations, travel, etc, to give these people the opportunity to join one of the biggest prog metal bands, and he's bitching that he didn't get paid much for the experience? I'm surprised they got paid at all. It's an audition ffs. I wish I got paid to attend job interviews. If he expected to get paid on top of that just to attend an audition and let them film it, he didn't deserve to be there in the first place.
And is he complaining about not being sent a copy of the video? The one that was freely available for him to watch on Youtube? Or does he mean the full audition tape?
To me the whole thing comes across as a little naive and bitter. From the audition I really loved his playing, but I am so glad that Mangini got the gig instead. Seems he outclasses everyone.
I agree with all of this. All the time I see more and more why they took Mangini over all those terrific drummers.
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I'm with the last couple of posts from Blob and Stoney.
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I agree with rumborak in this thread. If it is as Minnemann suggests, it's terrible and should never have happened.
I agree with you and therefore agree with Rumbo. I really didn't like the way they handled the audition stuff and now knowing this it's even worse.
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding, and not that I would doubt Marco, but you go into a room and play with a bunch of guys with cameras and then get upset when you show up in a documentary? Obviously he did interviews and was aware of its existence.
Half of me wants somebody to ask about this in an interview to clarify, and the other half just wishes it would stop here.
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MM's reaction's a liitle over the top, given that it's not the first time he's reacted like that. BUT was he naive enough to give the permission to be filmed and wanting the guys not to use the footage afterwards? If he was so buggered, he should have told the guys not to film him in the first place. But the filming brought some attention to him, nope? He appeared on the doc as one of the last 2 contenders : isn't it a good thing for him?
As for not being paid enough, come on, as Blob said I've never ever been paid for a job interview.
Finally, we only have his side of the story, not the other guys'.
From all this, and something he had said before in the same vein, the guy really appears as bitter and very MPish in his reaction.
B.Lee
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Marco is the elmo guy right? Not the German guy, cause the German guy didn't look like he could whine like that.
And didn't they get a hotel room and plane ticket? Then a welcoming basket? Now you tell me they got 500$? for auditioning? For jamming with Dream Theater? Well fuck that, 50$ would have been too much :lol
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I don't really think there's nearly enough information to have these heated, emotional responses from either side.
And Drew, he was auditioning for a band who wrote The Count of Tuscany for heaven's sake. That shirt was awesome :metal
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What is so bad about DT having released the footage? Is he embarrassed? Or is it like Peter Wildoer's case where he didn't even want to be in the band and just did it for fun. Still doesn't explain why he didn't want the footage shown though.
I think you might have that snake-breeder guy in mind. Didn't he say he wasn't totally interested in being in a full-time band like DT?
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Wow, I'm shocked at how professional musicians (Portnoy, Minnemann, etc.) will blast other musicians/bands on social media this year for everyone to read. It's just so unprofessional.
This. IMHO, there are better ways for professional musicians to express annoyance than "FU".
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What is so bad about DT having released the footage? Is he embarrassed? Or is it like Peter Wildoer's case where he didn't even want to be in the band and just did it for fun. Still doesn't explain why he didn't want the footage shown though.
I think you might have that snake-breeder guy in mind. Didn't he say he wasn't totally interested in being in a full-time band like DT?
yeah, but I also recall Wildoer saying something similar. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Probably he is telling the truth. There's no reason to lie about it, I think.
And he is better than Mangini. Better than all others who were in the auditions.
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Marco is the elmo guy right? Not the German guy, cause the German guy didn't look like he could whine like that.
Marco is German. Thomas Lang is Austrian.
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I may be completely off on this, but I think the whole thing is a joke. I saw him at a gig in February and spoke with him inbetween sets, and he had nothing but nice things to say about the band. Granted, this was before the documentary was released, but with the smileys in his post, I wouldn't take what he said too seriously.
Also, when I spoke with him, he did mention that since they did have such great chemistry together, that he, JP and Jordan were going to do some sort of project together, strongly implying that it would be a side project. He NEVER said anything about them collaborating on a solo CD of his.
This seems like the most reasonable and informed response so far, but no one seems to have read it.
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Personally, I see this as a famous person toying with fans on twitter and the like. makes me laugh, and doesn't Deter my enjoyment of his music. He's just expressing what he thinks that's it. I just find understand how upset people get as if they're their best friend.
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I may be completely off on this, but I think the whole thing is a joke. I saw him at a gig in February and spoke with him inbetween sets, and he had nothing but nice things to say about the band. Granted, this was before the documentary was released, but with the smileys in his post, I wouldn't take what he said too seriously.
Also, when I spoke with him, he did mention that since they did have such great chemistry together, that he, JP and Jordan were going to do some sort of project together, strongly implying that it would be a side project. He NEVER said anything about them collaborating on a solo CD of his.
This seems like the most reasonable and informed response so far, but no one seems to have read it.
Yeah, I'm surprised too that it took so long to be quoted. I mean, he already did something with JR, right?
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Wait, Marco who? :P
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I may be completely off on this, but I think the whole thing is a joke. I saw him at a gig in February and spoke with him inbetween sets, and he had nothing but nice things to say about the band. Granted, this was before the documentary was released, but with the smileys in his post, I wouldn't take what he said too seriously.
Also, when I spoke with him, he did mention that since they did have such great chemistry together, that he, JP and Jordan were going to do some sort of project together, strongly implying that it would be a side project. He NEVER said anything about them collaborating on a solo CD of his.
Yeah, I'm surprised too that it took so long to be quoted. I mean, he already did something with JR, right?
This seems like the most reasonable and informed response so far, but no one seems to have read it.
The one issue I have with it is that it was back in February before the documentary was released
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JR and MM did the 'Musical Mind Meld' which was an online jam on December 15.
https://youtu.be/uxEhQRfkCfI
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Marco is the elmo guy right? Not the German guy, cause the German guy didn't look like he could whine like that.
Marco is German. Thomas Lang is Austrian.
Oh man. Replacing a Jew with a German would've been awkward.
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but with the smileys in his post, I wouldn't take what he said too seriously.
The smileys seemed passive aggressive to me, but I guess it depends on how you read it.
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Marco is the elmo guy right? Not the German guy, cause the German guy didn't look like he could whine like that.
Marco is German. Thomas Lang is Austrian.
Oh man. Replacing a Jew with a German would've been awkward.
:lol
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Been thinking about this some more and listening to the one CD set I picked up when I saw him - Contraire de la Chanson - and the one thing that stands out in his music both in the style of music and many of the vocals used is that there is a lot of joking/comedy in his music. For that matter, take a look at his website and the covers of some of his albums and you can see that he's not someone that takes himself seriously. Even some of the clips from his drum videos (as can be seen on a certain website) show his humor - for example, one clip shows him improvising drums to repeating clips of the Simpsons and other movie/TV clips. I don't know the man personally, but from what I have observed and from the little I've talked to him, he is a fun-loving guy that likes to joke a lot.
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He's still my favorite drummer, so maybe I'm somewhat biased here :lol
I still can't believe that some people were miffed about Marco showing up with the Cookie Monster shirt. I remember seeing the episode and thinking "ha, I like that guy". Whereas when I saw Aquiles Priester I thought "ugh, somebody cranked the Metal Pez Dispenser".
rumborak
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Few new words form Marco:
"I never did things because of fame in the first place. Jordan is my friend and we collaborate, so when I got asked to play, I agreed, eventhough I never conciously heard a DT song before. The fact that I wasn't a DT fan or knew more about the band, was big part of the final decision. I always made clear that I didn't want to be part of a soap opera video and had a written gentlemens agreement, that if I don't want to be broadcasted, they would remove my part (they made me sign a release form 5 mins before we started playing, with that add of final approval). Unfortunately this got disrespected. So, I'm of course SUPER HAPPY to get so many nice comments from you guys. And I'm thankful for the lovely new friends I made through this. But when I get asked I will also tell the story. And I received dishonesty in that case, and my wish and opinion just got overlooked by the management. And that's not how you treat an artist. Like I've said, I didn't even get a DVD."
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lol well if he signed the release they were perfectly able to broadcast his audition. If he didn't want to be shown he would have had to opt out of signing the release.
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lol well if he signed the release they were perfectly able to broadcast his audition. If he didn't want to be shown he would have had to opt out of signing the release.
And auditioning altogether. I find it hard to believe that he didn't know who DT was. As a drummer I'm sure he must've heard of MP. I have yet to meet a drummer who doesn't know who MP is and/or which band he used to play with. It's a shame that the DT management shafted him like that, but that's how this business is. He should just roll with it and enjoy the exposure it gave him. I didn't know who he was until I saw the auditions video and now I own the Aristocrats CD and it's bad ass.
Like it or not, this audition did nothing but help his career and he should be thankful for that. He certainly got more than $500 worth out of this deal.
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It's a shame that the DT management shafted him like that
Except that we don't know that anybody "shafted" him.
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lol well if he signed the release they were perfectly able to broadcast his audition. If he didn't want to be shown he would have had to opt out of signing the release.
Yes obviously since he signed a release they could broadcast the audition. And I'm sure he understands the legal implications of this. But he also says that he didn't want to be involved in the documentary and apparently even had a written agreement with someone. It sounds like the management just disregarded his wishes and stuck a release form under his nose just before he was about to audition. At that point, what's he gonna do? Not sign the release and not do the audition? I feel like most people in that situation would do the same thing he did, especially if he thought he already had an agreement and whatever release he was signing was just a formality.
And auditioning altogether. I find it hard to believe that he didn't know who DT was. As a drummer I'm sure he must've heard of MP. I have yet to meet a drummer who doesn't know who MP is and/or which band he used to play with. It's a shame that the DT management shafted him like that, but that's how this business is. He should just roll with it and enjoy the exposure it gave him. I didn't know who he was until I saw the auditions video and now I own the Aristocrats CD and it's bad ass.
Like it or not, this audition did nothing but help his career and he should be thankful for that. He certainly got more than $500 worth out of this deal.
If you re-read his note, he never said he didn't know who DT or MP were. He just said he'd never consciously heard a DT song. Those are two totally different things. There are tons of big name musicians that I have heard of and maybe even watched or saw a few clips on Youtube, but I'd never actually sat down to listen to their songs.
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He's still my favorite drummer, so maybe I'm somewhat biased here :lol
I still can't believe that some people were miffed about Marco showing up with the Cookie Monster shirt. I remember seeing the episode and thinking "ha, I like that guy". Whereas when I saw Aquiles Priester I thought "ugh, somebody cranked the Metal Pez Dispenser".
rumborak
1) I felt a bit the same way with Peter Wildoer as well (wrt the Metal Pez), although I think he fit the band better than Aquiles.
2) If people are pissed Marco showed up sporting cookie monster, I'd expect them to also be pissed at Donati for showing up with a "hip-hop backwards hat."
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It's a shame that the DT management shafted him like that
Except that we don't know that anybody "shafted" him.
True. But I don't see why he would lie about it.
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I don't either. But I also don't see why DT would shaft someone who is auditioning for them, so there you go. Maybe DT did shaft him. Maybe he is lying. Maybe some things were said that he took to mean one thing, and DT took to mean something completely differently, and it's a big misunderstanding. Maybe the production company that did the video did some things they shouldn't have, and DT had no say in it. Maybe something else that none of us have thought of. Bottom line is, we don't know, so we shouldn't go wildly spreading rumors that may not be true.
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^One thing we should know by now...it's never as simple as it seems in the DT world.
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^One thing we should know by now...it's never as simple as it seems in the DT world.
and boom goes the dynamite
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I had never heard of Marco until he audition. Now he'll just be one of the guys who got all butt-hurt over the ordeal. Him and that other guy...already forgot his name ;)
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I had never heard of Marco until he audition. Now he'll just be one of the guys who got all Super Dude over the ordeal. Him and that other guy...already forgot his name ;)
I didn't know who he was either. Now I know he is one of the best drummers I've ever seen perform. As I said before, this documentary thing was not good from the begining. If it ends up in more drama well, that's how it started anyways.
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To be honest, Marco Minneman could have easily been DT's new drummer. I just think Mangini seemed like a better fit, and obviously he is fitting in just fine with them.
I wanted to see more of Marco, as I thought his drumming was pretty kick ass. But now that I know hes sort of bitter about the whole thing, I probably wont waste my time looking into his work.
Good job Marco and good job Facebook for ruining things once again. Why cant people just keep their mouth shut on Facebook?
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To be honest, Marco Minneman could have easily been DT's new drummer. I just think Mangini seemed like a better fit, and obviously he is fitting in just fine with them.
I wanted to see more of Marco, as I thought his drumming was pretty kick ass. But now that I know hes sort of bitter about the whole thing, I probably wont waste my time looking into his work.
Good job Marco and good job Facebook for ruining things once again. Why cant people just keep their mouth shut on Facebook?
Exactly how fb ruined things again? That damn submit button pressing itself again!
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To be honest, Marco Minneman could have easily been DT's new drummer. I just think Mangini seemed like a better fit, and obviously he is fitting in just fine with them.
I wanted to see more of Marco, as I thought his drumming was pretty kick ass. But now that I know hes sort of bitter about the whole thing, I probably wont waste my time looking into his work.
Good job Marco and good job Facebook for ruining things once again. Why cant people just keep their mouth shut on Facebook?
Exactly how fb ruined things again? That damn submit button pressing itself again!
In the era before FB, you wouldnt have little conversations like the one linked where people just let out whatever they are thinking. Kind of like speaking before thinking, except you made it permanent when you put it on the internet.
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"It must be very hard for Marco, getting payment and good publicity for essentially turning up to a job interview."
:tup
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To be honest, Marco Minneman could have easily been DT's new drummer. I just think Mangini seemed like a better fit, and obviously he is fitting in just fine with them.
I wanted to see more of Marco, as I thought his drumming was pretty kick ass. But now that I know hes sort of bitter about the whole thing, I probably wont waste my time looking into his work.
Good job Marco and good job Facebook for ruining things once again. Why cant people just keep their mouth shut on Facebook?
Exactly how fb ruined things again? That damn submit button pressing itself again!
In the era before FB, you wouldnt have little conversations like the one linked where people just let out whatever they are thinking. Kind of like speaking before thinking, except you made it permanent when you put it on the internet.
Nonsense. The Internet has been around for a while. I can find things I said online from back in the 90's. At the end of the day it's the individual's fault for writing things on fb after knowing that it will be there forever for everyone to read. A person that's a public figure/celebrity/well known should have enough common sense that many people will read whatever he she said on fb or twitter.
In short, the individual is always, always 100% responsible for his/her own actions. To blame fb or twitter for "ruining things" is absolutely silly.
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"It must be very hard for Marco, getting payment and good publicity for essentially turning up to a job interview."
:tup
It might be hard to believe, but not everybody sees DT as the Olymp of being associated with. Marco has a pretty good career for himself, so this was probably a nice opportunity to check out a possible gig with a band, but not something where getting screwed over certain points would still force him to be uber-grateful to be associated with the "great and illustrious DT".
One thing that kinda struck me now is also, when you look at the audition videos, I think only half of the people auditioning there were *really* interested in joining DT. Marco's wording at the end of his audition is even "yeah, I can see myself as being part of DT", which is about as non-committal as you can get. I think Donati and Lang probably also just showed up because they were asked nicely and it was all-expenses paid.
I think Mangini, Wildoer, Priester and Roddy were really the only ones fully interested, with Mangini standing far above the others.
rumborak
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Roddy has said that he had no interest in the gig. He just thought he'd audition just for the heck of it
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Good points, rumby.
DT didn't really hold "open" auditions; they invited people they liked to audition for them. That changes the game quite a bit. And, judging by Macro's words, it looks like the audition process was more like an exchange of favors, i.e. "You audition for us and let us put you in our DVD, and we'll give you $500 and guest on your next album."
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this puts the whole "marco got offered the gig but turned it down" thing in place that somebody on here was ranting about a few months ago...
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If memory serves, Roddy said that Mangini was the only one of the group really interested in the gig, although he didn't know metal Pez. I know he went along because it's bad form to turn down any audition.
I also recall that I was one of the only folks in here that thought the doc sucked; cheesy, canned melodrama. I can certainly understand why Minnemann wouldn't want to be a part of it. The auditions seemed like a pretty cool deal, and I'm sure anybody would have wanted in on it. It probably would have been cool to make it crystal clear that the cost of auditioning was particpation in the video, take it or leave it, though.
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It's a shame that the DT management shafted him like that
Except that we don't know that anybody "shafted" him.
True. But I don't see why he would lie about it.
I don't think he lied. I think he just didn't understand the situation fully. I don't see anything legitimate against DT, and they have done no wrong here, but I don't see any reason Marco would lie about his grievances either. I think he's just naive. And there is no way his comments were a joke. The smileys were passive aggressive, plain and simple, not an excuse for talking shit about DT.
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If memory serves, Roddy said that Mangini was the only one of the group really interested in the gig, although he didn't know metal Pez. I know he went along because it's bad form to turn down any audition.
Metal Pez definitely wanted the gig, after all he canceled an Angra gig just to be at the audition.
Blob, I don't see how you could make the judgment that Marco was naive. He said the contract he signed stated he could opt out of having his footage being used. Unless you're saying the naive part was to expect DT management to abide by the contract.
Overall the documentary, as reality TV as it was, was a brilliant coup for DT. Even though only two of drummers were actually interested in joining DT, they made it look as if the top-notch drummers of this world were lining up, and that DT then chose the most fitting one. That quelled a lot of voices I think regarding the choice. All in all, DT was very lucky that MM was available.
rumborak
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If memory serves, Roddy said that Mangini was the only one of the group really interested in the gig, although he didn't know metal Pez. I know he went along because it's bad form to turn down any audition.
Blob, I don't see how you could make the judgment that Marco was naive. He said the contract he signed stated he could opt out of having his footage being used. Unless you're saying the naive part was to expect DT management to abide by the contract.
No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that it sounds like he expected them to ask him even though he'd already given them written permission to use the footage. It sounds like the "promise" was just a verbal thing with DT that they wouldn't use the footage if he didn't want them to, but then he signed a contract saying they could. Due to the chain of command with a band of that size, there was nothing written that they would explicitly ask him again, because they had permission to use it already. Why would anyone think to ask again? This is the entire point of the contract. The contract he signed.
It just sounds like a case of miscommunication to me, and sounds like he didn't really think about the logistics of how a contract works. Nobody is at fault here on either side, but Marco decided to unfairly throw the blame for this miscommunication DT's way, and I don't see any effort that he tried to clear up after he signed the contract and filmed the doco.
He apparently didn't want the gig in the first place, but he went anyway, signed a contract that they could use the footage, then got pissed that they used the footage, and didn't give him more for it? And he's blaming DT for this? Yeah....... ok. Sounds like he should have just stayed at home.
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I think you're making a lot of assumptions about the wording of the contract. Marco isn't some drumming noob; he will have signed many a contract over the years. Unless I am misreading his statements, the contract itself said that he could opt out of the usage of the footage. Not just some verbal agreement.
rumborak
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I'm sure the contract probably did say he could opt out of the footage (I didn't mean to imply otherwise, sorry). But I'm not seeing him mention that he actually asked them in writing after the audition though. I'm saying this his understanding of them not using the footage was only spoken, and not in writing, so it could be easily forgotten or misunderstood.
It's a safe assumption that the contract he signed defaults to "it's ok to use the footage until stated otherwise" rather than "this contract means we still have to ask you later if we can use the footage", otherwise it would be a pointless and redundant contract to begin with.
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Ah, now we're on the same page.
Thinking about it, I could see how he underwent the audition, thinking the "you may opt out of the usage of the footage" clause just being plain lawyer talk. After all, he could never have expected that DT would produce this soap opera style documentary out of it! So, suddenly he sees this documentary and is pissed that they didn't even check. with him. Legally it was OK, just not the nice way. From DT's side of course understandable too, why ask if the answer could be no?
So, I can see your point of him having underestimated the thing (what you called "naive"), but DT doesn't come off clean either. They knew from the beginning they were going to produce this documentary out of it, and thus pulled wool over the guys' eyes regarding their intentions with the footage. That is "the business way", but I also fully understand Marco being pissed about getting duped by DT that way. You go into an audition thinking the camera is for the band's review of your performance, but in fact it was always meant for the documentary.
rumborak
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I didn't really think about whether the guys auditioning knew that the footage was definitely being used for a public video release. In that case, they may have seen the contract as more of a release for rights just to cover themselves legally (common enough that they may not have given it a second thought).
I don't see it as any intentional deception on DT's part, although I see where Marco is coming from with that. But I still find his conduct with this to be highly unprofessional for someone of his experience.
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It is, indeed. But, as I said, neither side comes clean off this one. I trust Marco enough to not make a public stink if he didn't think DT did something sketchy on their part.
rumborak
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(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DUbVrOnLmgw/TmN4OfVcMJI/AAAAAAAAAfA/Dmr11GcPf9k/s1600/combo_breaker.jpeg)
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All the guys, with the exception of Marco I think, were shot outside the audition room in a "documentary style" manner by the documentary film crew. Mangini and Wildoer also filmed themselves at home before and after their auditions, at the request of DT management. I can't recall Marco participating in any extra shooting, but the other guys did. It gave the impression that they knew they were shooting a doc. Otherwise, why shoot anything outside the actual audition room. Why film Mangini and Roddy in their hotel rooms, etc. if that footage wasn't going into a doc. For the public, or DT fans in particular to view. What Marco knew before he got to the audition room is harder to say. Hard to see everyone else being told about the doc though, and not Marco. So exactly what happened with him or what the understanding was is confusing compared to the other guys.
It also seems like the issue is more about the way the doc was put together, which Roddy said some of the drummers didn't like. In Marco's case though, he came off looking excellent. He was not presented as having "lost" the audition due to some lack of skill. It was made clear that the guys in DT thought very highly of his skills. And they still do since JP and JR both placed his Aristocrats album in their Top 10 albums of the year. Whatever anyone thinks about the actual documentary itself, Marco came off looking fantastic in it. Hope he can reach an understanding eventually with DT about what happened and keep his friendship with the guys.
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Remain friends with the guys? I don't know, but someone telling me FU following the complaints he expressed is not friends with me. For God's sake, even if 5 minutes just before he auditioned, he GAVE his authorization : he didn't agree? He could have left! For me, MM appeared as someone very likeable and as a great drummer in the doco. Now, he appears as someone whiney and, as I said before, very MPish. Plus, sorry guys, for those who go with MM (and I can understand that) : we cannot say he's right and blame MP for the same conduct at the same time.
B.Lee
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I don't know, but someone telling me FU following the complaints he expressed is not friends with me.
B.Lee
Believe me, I feel exactly the same way about that. If anything can be resolved, great. If not, it's a shame because I don't think Marco needed to take things to this level.
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Marco was shot outside the audition commenting on each song he played.
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Marco was shot outside the audition commenting on each song he played.
I should have watched again. I could clearly remember the other guys outside the audition but couldn't remember seeing Marco outside. So since he was shot outside, it seems like he would have known beforehand like the other guys that DT was shooting a documentary. He came across so well with his playing and I think DT really got across onscreen how highly they regarded his audition. I know some of the drummers and fans did not like the doc, but I really think it was done with the intentions of sharing the process and easing the transition to the new drummer more than anything else.
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Marco was shot outside the audition commenting on each song he played.
That's right :huh: He must've known he was going to be a "part of a soap opera video".
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I think a lot is getting lost in the interpretation of these posts by Marco. He seems like a real upbeat and humorous person. I doubt highly that he is anywhere near as upset as anyone in this thread.
Also, I don't think either side is at fault for anything. Marco signed a release for the video, DT used his footage. If anything I'm sure he would be mad at the management or the production company than the guys in DT. I highly doubt he is pissed at the band members.
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I think a lot is getting lost in the interpretation of these posts by Marco. He seems like a real upbeat and humorous person. I doubt highly that he is anywhere near as upset as anyone in this thread.
Also, I don't think either side is at fault for anything. Marco signed a release for the video, DT used his footage. If anything I'm sure he would be mad at the management or the production company than the guys in DT. I highly doubt he is pissed at the band members.
Sorry, but "FU DT" is pretty clear for me and involves everybody in the DT camp, even the band.
B.Lee
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I'm pretty sure the comments about "broken promises" of working on his CD were aimed at DT directly. I doubt such promises were made by management.
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I hope he sorts out his problems with JR, considering they appear to be very good friends.
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Er, no one held a gun to this guy's head and made him audition. If he didn't like the idea of the documentary, then he shouldn't have taken part in the audition. Simple as that. He can talk about the unwritten gentleman's agreement all he wants, but if he signed something that gave them the right to use him in it, then it is his own fault. No one forced him to sign anything.
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Er, no one held a gun to this guy's head and made him audition. If he didn't like the idea of the documentary, then he shouldn't have taken part in the audition. Simple as that. He can talk about the unwritten gentleman's agreement all he wants, but if he signed something that gave them the right to use him in it, then it is his own fault. No one forced him to sign anything.
And we have a winner. :hat
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It's funny how everyone is taking DT's side, calling Marco a whiner and whatnot. Not really surprising though.
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the amount of conspiracy theories here...
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It's funny how everyone is taking DT's side, calling Marco a whiner and whatnot. Not really surprising though.
Well, now that the whole MP issue has died down people need someone to complain about. I agree though. Not surprising.
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Well. Isn't this a dramatic turn of events.
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not Really suprising from DT . after all it is a Business . an empire
ASSAULT in 3 2 1 GO
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Well, seems like Marco has deleted his own comments in Facebook, am I the only one seeing that? https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10150422214608773&id=60833133772
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F U DTF ;-)
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He said the contract he signed stated he could opt out of having his footage being used. Unless you're saying the naive part was to expect DT management to abide by the contract.
Actually, he said he had a "written gentlemen's agreement" that said that, which was separate from the contract he was given right before going into the auditions.
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It's funny how everyone is taking DT's side, calling Marco a whiner and whatnot. Not really surprising though.
I agree. Absolutely astonishing that the folks on Dreamtheaterforums.org would take DT's side. :laugh:
This sums it up best:
Er, no one held a gun to this guy's head and made him audition. If he didn't like the idea of the documentary, then he shouldn't have taken part in the audition. Simple as that. He can talk about the unwritten gentleman's agreement all he wants, but if he signed something that gave them the right to use him in it, then it is his own fault. No one forced him to sign anything.
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It's funny how everyone is taking DT's side, calling Marco a whiner and whatnot. Not really surprising though.
This is nonsense. I, personally, have criticized DT MANY times for various things. But, sorry, saying, "F-U DT" is just immature and makes him sound like he's just a sore loser. Secondly, I like how he tries to downplay how much of a DT fan he was.... as if he "didn't really want" the gig, but "they asked him," so he had to accept the offer.... like he's SO amazing and these peasants in DT - that he was never really a fan of - (insert eye rolling here) asked him to be in their little band. He comes across like a total snot in those posts.
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SnakeEyes, what he's saying is pretty much in line with what other drummers have said though too, that other than MM and Metal Pez, they weren't really all that gaga about joining DT. Because let's face it, it's not really that pleasant a gig for an artist. You come into a band with 20 years of material, and you have zero leeway in how to play it because you're following in the footsteps of a famous drummer. AND, for the first new album you have very limited input. MM was willing to do that, but drummers like Donati, Lang and Minnemann probably said "errr, sure, I'll show up, but we will have to talk about those things". Look at the documentary, other than MM nobody played the songs to the tee but instead put their own twists onto things, probably for good reason.
rumborak
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rumborak, I think that's B.S. Not you, but what those drummers say, I mean. DT is THE BIGGEST "prog" band in the world right now. ANY musician would do anything, aside from cutting his own nuts off, to be in DT. They all looked pretty damn thrilled to be there to me.
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Come on, dude, seriously? :lol
I think you are grossly overestimating how DT is perceived outside the prog metal scene. It's a well-paying gig, that's for sure. But for someone stepping in 20 years into the band, artistically it's really not that great.
And, even though I personally don't mind it, DT can be somewhat sterile and over-bearing. That's not everybody's taste. Marco is right now touring with Steven Wilson for Grace for Drowning, and I would say musically it's a better deal for him.
rumborak
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rumborak, I think that's B.S. Not you, but what those drummers say, I mean. DT is THE BIGGEST "prog" band in the world right now. ANY musician would do anything, aside from cutting his own nuts off, to be in DT. They all looked pretty damn thrilled to be there to me.
That one dude wanted to tend to his snakes or whatever, he basically said so himself (not in the documentary, of course). Being in a band doesn't necessarily mean being in the 'best' band, but being in the best band for each individual. DT was the best job for Mangini, and Mangini was the best man for the job. That documentary could have been skewed to his favor in post-production, but you can't watch that objectively and think they could have picked any of the other 6.
edit: rumborak is right too, James Bond is probably the best known character in film history, yet there is a canon and established character there, and some actors might not want to pursue the role if it was offered to them, preferring to do other projects that allow them more independence, artistic creativity, whatever.
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Exactly. Once you join DT, your artistic options are very limited. It's a very specific style of drumming, and DT are sticking to it very strictly.
EDIT: BTW, I'm not saying Marco or any of the others went into this saying "whatever, I don't care about DT anyway", but I don't think they would have cut off their left nut to be in DT. They all made it clear musically in the audition that they have no intention of playing DT's older material exactly like MP did, and I think that says a lot about how they went into the auditions.
rumborak
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rumborak, please. Minnemann WANTED the DT gig. They ALL did. Badly. Otherwise they wouldn't have been there. Nothing will convince me otherwise.
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Ok then. No point in further discussing this.
rumborak
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I believe it was also stated that being in DT is essentially a full time job, with recording, touring and then a very brief down time. Unless you're a workaholic, it's pretty much the only music you're going to be making. I can certainly see how plenty of people wouldn't want to pigeon-hole themselves into one full time gig, especially if they're not even that crazy about the music. It's really not something you're going to want to do unless it's a perfect marriage, and for half those guys it probably wasn't.
And there's plenty of motivation to attend the thing, even if you're not totally sold on it. For one thing, job offers don't grow on trees. Also, get together with them and see if it might be a better deal than you're imagining. Just because they showed up doesn't mean they were creaming themselves at the opportunity. Hell, even if I knew I didn't want the gig, I'd have done it just for the experience.
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And for potential further collaborations with the guys. Networking is a necessity in that business, if you have the chance to meet those guys one-on-one and showcase your skills, you don't turn that down.
rumborak
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I think everyone but Roddy was willing to take the gig. Post documentary, he went on about how he just did it because he was asked and that DT would have taken away from what he lives to do which is side projects.
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It's funny how everyone is taking DT's side, calling Marco a whiner and whatnot. Not really surprising though.
Not really surprising at all since Marco is the most in the wrong here.
He either wanted the DT gig, in which case he comes across as bitter, or he never wanted the gig to begin with, in which case he's being a spoiled brat for whining about things he didn't care about to begin with. :)
He should just stick to drumming and stay off the intertubes.
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It's funny how everyone is taking DT's side, calling Marco a whiner and whatnot. Not really surprising though.
Not really surprising at all since Marco is the most in the wrong here.
He either wanted the DT gig, in which case he comes across as bitter, or he never wanted the gig to begin with, in which case he's being a spoiled brat for whining about things he didn't care about to begin with. :)
He should just stick to drumming and stay off the intertubes.
But he's not whining about the prospect of joining DT. He's complaining about being put into the documentary, which he didn't want to happen from the beginning. Auditioning for the band and taking part in the documentary are two separate things.
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Auditioning for the band and taking part in the documentary are two separate things.
Not on DTF.
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rumborak, please. Minnemann WANTED the DT gig. They ALL did. Badly. Otherwise they wouldn't have been there. Nothing will convince me otherwise.
Nothing will convince you otherwise. Not even the auditionee's own words. I'm sure that attitude will serve you well in life.
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But he's not whining about the prospect of joining DT. He's complaining about being put into the documentary, which he didn't want to happen from the beginning. Auditioning for the band and taking part in the documentary are two separate things.
He apparently didn't want to be in the documentary at all, or be in the band, but he signed to allow it, and did plenty of additional interview sections for it, which included saying that it would be good to join the band.
Watching the documentary again, there is no way he didn't have some good clue of what they were filming it for, and he willingly went along with all of it. The facts are telling me a different story to what Marco is (and to some of the theories in this thread).
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Nothing will convince you otherwise. Not even the auditionee's own words. I'm sure that attitude will serve you well in life.
haha..... yeah, because no one EVER lies or tries to manipulate anyone with their own words. Oh no, that never happens. You're right. I should just believe him and not question anything he does. Because, "F-U DT" gives me such a good reason to trust him. :lol
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Nothing will convince you otherwise. Not even the auditionee's own words. I'm sure that attitude will serve you well in life.
haha..... yeah, because no one EVER lies or tries to manipulate anyone with their own words. Oh no, that never happens. You're right. I should just believe him and not question anything he does. Because, "F-U DT" gives me such a good reason to trust him. :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htVkGx4_GqA
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DT fucks Marco Minnemann over.
DT fans lose respect for Marco Minnemann.
Classic.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htVkGx4_GqA
hahahahaha
And, where's the EVIDENCE that, "DT fucked Marco over"? Seriously, this is so ridiculous now. The guy is a punk. He auditioned for DT, didn't get in and he's pissed. It's frigging obvious. He needs to get the hell over it. He didn't get in. Go find another band.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htVkGx4_GqA
hahahahaha
And, where's the EVIDENCE that, "DT fucked Marco over"? Seriously, this is so ridiculous now. The guy is a punk. He auditioned for DT, didn't get in and he's pissed. It's frigging obvious. He needs to get the hell over it. He didn't get in. Go find another band.
Sorry I broke your heart by criticising your favourite band everrrrr.
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This thread is getting ridiculous.
rumborak
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WOW LUCKY DT . SO MUCH ATTORNEYS
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I'll put the over/under on number of posts until this thread gets locked at 8th one after this. I'll take the over but not by much...
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Sorry I broke your heart by criticising your favourite band everrrrr.
If you think that I'm offended by criticism of DT, then you are so wrong it's not even funny. You can criticize them all you want if it's a valid criticism or subjective. But, this is just.... stupid. I've been a fan of DT since 1993. I've followed them from the pre-internet days through the first forum (DT.net) all the way until now in 2011. Even PAST MEMBERS only have good things to say about DT. They kicked Derek out for Jordan and even HE has nothing but positive things to say.
So, the point is: DT has not had a reputation for being jerks. I think, as fans, we really should back them up on this. If something comes out and we find out otherwise, fine - I'll agree. But, so far, it's "Marco against DT" and, sorry, DT is winning.
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SnakeEyes, do you really think that just because nobody says anything, there's no person in DT's past that might have misgivings about them? There's such things as politics, you know. Besides, MP has said quite a few not-so-nice things about DT, and while I tend to side with DT on those things, I don't discredit MP's accounts completely either.
DT are nice people, and so is Marco. That doesn't mean there can't be discrepancies between the two. And no, I personally don't do "default guilt" as you seem to suggest we should do in this case. My personal judgment in this case is that DT+management have pulled a slightly shady move by using the footage for a documentary that neither of the auditionees knew about.
rumborak
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When you don't need a job the purpose of an interview is not just for the company to decide if you're the person they want to hire but also the opportunity for you to decide if the company you're interviewing for is a place you want to work.
I think that for all but a couple of them the DT audition was being treated exactly like that. Mangini was the only one who really stood out as really wanting the job and Derek Roddy was the only one who came across as not being particularly interested, though this could well be down to the clichéd reality show editing.
I think Minnemann was just a little bit naive as to how gentlemanly (or perhaps not) the management of DT is. It's their business to look out for DT's best interests, not to play nice with the guy(s) who didn't get the job.
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Marco also stated in Facebook that as much as he would have liked to join DT, he was not willing to give up all his side projects just because the band demanded that.
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I've attended at least 5 job interviews just to see how things go. I didn't want to leave my company, I wasn't interested in the job offering, but I just did that because it is important to meet people, to have experience in different interviews, and because maybe in the interview I could learn more things about the company and the job that would make me change my opinion. In no way I was dying to get the job but I decided to go anyway (and to make the effort to fill out the application and other processes). And I know many of you old enough to have a job have done likewise many times.
So I don't understand why so many people think that because a musician did an audition necessarily means that he wanted the job. Only a very young person with no experience in the labor market would think that, IMO.
I've watched the documentary many times, I enjoy it a lot and I'm glad Marco is there because he's such a fun guy to watch playing (I bought two of his instructional DVDs afterwards). And it can be clearly seen that Mangini was the only guy willing to cut off his nuts to get into DT. PW and AP were very enthusiastic about it too. The other guys? not so much. Just see their reactions:
MM gives a rather cold "yeah I can see myself being part of DT" which is as politically correct, non-committal as it can get.
VD essentially says "yeah it was fun. I'm cautiosly optimistic about the whole thing".
TL "yeah it was fun. Maybe we can do that again sometime".
Mangini sounds like a 13-year old girl wanting to be invited to a summer ball. She is much more intense about the prospects of being on DT than anybody else. Heck, he even brought about the marriage analogy (they're picking a partner for life, they have 7 pretty ladies to choose from, the have to pick well) :lol He states repeteadly that HE REAAAAAAAALLY WANTS THE JOB. After the audition, he's very nervous and excited about it going well. Before he receives the call, he's almost dying (WHY DID THEY TAKE SO LONG? MY BODY IS NOT WELL. THIS IS PAIIINFUUUUUUUUUL OOOH OOOH OOOH OOOOOOOH THE PAAAIIIIIN). And he orgasmed when he heard James whisper "welcome to the family" and he started crying afterwards (compare the whole thing to PW's reaction: "It's OK. No problem"). And he was willing to leave an stable job at Berklee to joing the band. The other guys probably wouldn't want to leave their projects.
Of course the band was able perceive if the drummers were really into joining DT or not, and that partly influence their decision. Many people said here "The others were great but Mangini really wanted the job so I'm glad they chose him". After watching the videos, it's not surprising that the other drummers say they didn't really want to join DT but they wanted to have the experience of auditioning. That's the natural conclusion one makes after watching the videos.
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Well, no matter what you feel about the situation the "FU DT" comment from Marco was unncalled for.
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My 0.02 on the topic.
0.01 i find if funny reading through this thread that people are pissy about the video of the auditions when what was it? 6 months ago? we were all sitting rock hard with baited breath waiting for the next installment to find out about who was chosen. THEN, after it was revealed we pretty much ALL agreed it was the coolestthing since sliced bread and astro-glide. ::)
0.02 Marco may or may not be pissed off at the guys, management, the pope, or anyone else but to even bring up the $500.00 is like him saying he felt he deserved more. Again I have to agree with others statements (and yes, I am AWARE the $500 was for being in the video, so dont bother going down that path) that he got an all expense paid trip to NY to AUDITION for a permanant part in a band that he admittedly knew nothing about before the audition opportunity. I mean come on how unplugged from the music world do you have to be to NOT know about a band that has been making music like DT for 25 years.... seriously? Bottom line though is this, he admits he signed a release before auditioning, whether or not they stuck itunder his nose 17 weeks before the audition or 30 seconds before he played the first riff of teh audition, if he signed it then to quote Eddie Murpghy in Raw, "...Tell Bill to have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up". I really enjoyed watching him in the video, I loved the hell out of watching him live during Jordan's Musical Mind Meld but as to the guys shafting him in any way shape or form I have a VERY DIFFICULT time believing that at all.
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The fact of the matter is that these auditions were as much for the drummers to see if DT was a good fit for them. At least three of the drummers seemed to think it wasn't. That doesn't mean that they didn't go into it thinking that it would be an awesome gig if they were still allowed certain aspects of freedom within and outside of DT. They found out the details and were no longer interested. No biggie. I'm at a point in my career that I am interviewing the company as much as they're interviewing me and have turned down offers and withdrawn from consideration of others because I knew it wasn't the right fit regardless of how good the company and money might be.
I think it was pretty clear that MM was looking for a gig that would allow him to play live and tour and to have the camaraderie of being in a band and a regular paycheck. He wasn't as concerned with the artistic freedom side of things, or he felt like his artistic side would mesh perfectly with DT. It looked to me from the audition that Wildoer would have taken the job if offered. Not so sure about the other guys. At least three of them probably wouldn't have. It's obviously hard to tell from a short documentary.
I feel bad that Minneman has a sour taste in his mouth from all of this. It shouldn't have been that way, but I'm sure DT and their management didn't do anything that Minneman didn't agree to in a contract of some sort. This goes to show again that DT is as much a business as a band. They improved their business by putting out the documentary and probably weren't super concerned if they ticked off a couple guys who didn't get or want the gig. It was a net positive experience for DT and likely all of the drummers.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htVkGx4_GqA
hahahahaha
And, where's the EVIDENCE that, "DT fucked Marco over"? Seriously, this is so ridiculous now. The guy is a punk. He auditioned for DT, didn't get in and he's pissed. It's frigging obvious. He needs to get the hell over it. He didn't get in. Go find another band.
Sorry I broke your heart by criticising your favourite band everrrrr.
So let me get this straight... in your opinion... The definition of Fucked over is getting an all expenses paid trip to go to a job interview, then getting paid 500 bucks because the filmed your interview (something that YOU signed a PERMISSION slip for them to do), then when you didnt get the job you go to the internet and bitch about the company that didnt hire you but liked you enough to mention maybe doing some contract work with you? :facepalm:
I think you need a dose of reality my friend. :lol
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Like Sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our Dream Theater lives......
(https://www.kirksnosehair.com/pics/dtdays.jpg)
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*snip*
Great post.
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Again I have to agree with others statements (and yes, I am AWARE the $500 was for being in the video, so dont bother going down that path) that he got an all expense paid trip to NY to AUDITION for a permanant part in a band that he admittedly knew nothing about before the audition opportunity. I mean come on how unplugged from the music world do you have to be to NOT know about a band that has been making music like DT for 25 years.... seriously?
He didn't say he didn't know about Dream Theater, he said he had never consciously listened to one of their songs. In the same way that I know who Beyonce, Justin Bieber, Van der Graaf Generator, Kiss, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Coheed and Cambria, and Muse are, but I can't recall voluntarily pressing the play button to hear any of their songs.
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The fact of the matter is that these auditions were as much for the drummers to see if DT was a good fit for them. At least three of the drummers seemed to think it wasn't. That doesn't mean that they didn't go into it thinking that it would be an awesome gig if they were still allowed certain aspects of freedom within and outside of DT. They found out the details and were no longer interested. No biggie. I'm at a point in my career that I am interviewing the company as much as they're interviewing me and have turned down offers and withdrawn from consideration of others because I knew it wasn't the right fit regardless of how good the company and money might be.
I think it was pretty clear that MM was looking for a gig that would allow him to play live and tour and to have the camaraderie of being in a band and a regular paycheck. He wasn't as concerned with the artistic freedom side of things, or he felt like his artistic side would mesh perfectly with DT. It looked to me from the audition that Wildoer would have taken the job if offered. Not so sure about the other guys. At least three of them probably wouldn't have. It's obviously hard to tell from a short documentary.
I feel bad that Minneman has a sour taste in his mouth from all of this. It shouldn't have been that way, but I'm sure DT and their management didn't do anything that Minneman didn't agree to in a contract of some sort. This goes to show again that DT is as much a business as a band. They improved their business by putting out the documentary and probably weren't super concerned if they ticked off a couple guys who didn't get or want the gig. It was a net positive experience for DT and likely all of the drummers.
Excellent post. You paint everything in a positive way because everything ended up well. DT got a fantastic drummer, the fans got some incredible videos of the best drummers of the world auditioning for DT, and the drummers got $500 and a good exposure of what they're capable of (except Derek who IMO didn't come up well from the videos, in part because of the recording problem they had).
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It's kind of funny (as in ironic) how this same situation has played itself out twice now in practically the same way. When you watch the footage, including not only the audition portion itself, but also the parts where the drummers are just talking to camera or where the members of DT are talking about the drummers, everyone seems pretty happy with the experience and with each other. After the fact, a couple of the guys have said they weren't 100% happy with the documentary for one reason or another. And that's understandable. I mean, you take Roddy for instance. What you can see of the audition is mostly incredible. He is spoken of very highly by the band. And I'm sure there is a ton of amazing drumming we did not see. But it also briefly shows where he struggled. And that brief moment is necessary as part of the overall picture as to why Mangini was chosen, but that brief moment can create the impression that Roddy simply couldn't cut it. So, yeah, I can see why, after the fact, he might not be 100% thrilled with it. But the almost-immediate feedback seemed to be that everyone was happy with one another, DT were really impressed with him as a drummer and as a person, and everything was relatively cool.
It's funny that you don't really see Roddy or Minnemann "lash out" in any sense until way down the road when kind of pushed by fans about certain things about the audition. Let me repeat that because I think it is very telling: Neither of these guys really has anything negative to say until pushed by fans about the audition. That, to me, makes me take any bit of controversy with a huge grain of salt. It's very easy for fans (of both the band and of these individual drummers) to stir up controversy by pushing a button by prying too much into the private details of something that was entirely between DT and these drummers. But it just seems to me like there really isn't anything much there of any significance.
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That and also after the fact they found out they didn't get the job lol
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bosk - I understand what you're saying about the videos showing some of them struggling and maybe that they were trying to lean us away from that particular drummer. However, they obviously thought Mangini was the best drummer for DT and they had already hired him when they edited the documentary. So, my point is: obviously they're going to show you some of the reasons WHY they chose him over the other guys. And, one of the reasons is what you mentioned: struggling with the music, or changing the drum parts.... whatever it might have been. I don't have an issue with that at all.
I think Marco is just a whiner. Just my opinion.
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bosk - I understand what you're saying about the videos showing some of them struggling and maybe that they were trying to lean us away from that particular drummer. However, they obviously thought Mangini was the best drummer for DT and they had already hired him when they edited the documentary. So, my point is: obviously they're going to show you some of the reasons WHY they chose him over the other guys. And, one of the reasons is what you mentioned: struggling with the music, or changing the drum parts.... whatever it might have been. I don't have an issue with that at all.
I don't have an issue with it either. I'm just saying that...well, actually, I'm saying two things about it. First, I can see if some of them after the fact felt like, "oh, man. I wish they didn't show that part." Not because there's anything wrong with showing it. But even if the documentary shows 100 things they did that were awesome, show that one little mistake, and that's what some people (and probably the drummers themselves) will fixate on. That's just human nature. Second, it gives those who are hypercritical some ammo to fuel the fire where there really shouldn't be any fire to fuel in the first place. I can almost guarantee that if fans didn't bring the audition videos up to Marco and Derek, they probably wouldn't have said anything at all, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion. That was my point.
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Yeah, I understand..... I agree.
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There is more than a million views for the documentary, which might reduce to a couple of hundred people who viewed the documentary and saw how it was a close match between Mike and Marco and how the guys from DT were amazed by Marco.
If i were Marco i would be like.. ok, it didn't went as i wanted but not everything is bad, i got a big exposure, people is talking in a good way about my drumming.. so, i will move on and take all the good things with me and left the bad thing behind.
At least I bought his "The Aristocrats" album and i didn't knew anything about him before he auditioned for DT.
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There is more than a million views for the documentary, which might reduce to a couple of hundred people who viewed the documentary and saw how it was a close match between Mike and Marco and how the guys from DT were amazed by Marco.
If i were Marco i would be like.. ok, it didn't went as i wanted but not everything is bad, i got a big exposure, people is talking in a good way about my drumming.. so, i will move on and take all the good things with me and left the bad thing behind.
At least I bought his "The Aristocrats" album and i didn't knew anything about him before he auditioned for DT.
That's certainly a very good way to see things. (What's your opinion on the album?)
I wouldn't say he's a whiner or a sore loser. I'd say he feels genuinely aggravated and disappointed; because from his point of view the band broke several promises, and that's why he's complaining.
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Neither of these guys really has anything negative to say until pushed by fans about the audition. That, to me, makes me take any bit of controversy with a huge grain of salt. It's very easy for fans (of both the band and of these individual drummers) to stir up controversy by pushing a button by prying too much into the private details of something that was entirely between DT and these drummers. But it just seems to me like there really isn't anything much there of any significance.
I can almost guarantee that if fans didn't bring the audition videos up to Marco and Derek, they probably wouldn't have said anything at all, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion. That was my point.
I think bosk won the game.
Some people in this thread are acting like the man filed a lawsuit or held a press conference to talk about this stuff. As far as I can tell, he's made exactly two comments, both of them on Facebook, both of them in reaction to fan comments. He's not exactly going out of his way to make a big deal out of this.
I went on Blabbermouth and searched for 'Marco Minneman'. The only results I got were related to the results of the audition process; I saw nothing about this Facebook post of his. Now, maybe I just missed it, so correct me if I'm wrong. But if even Blabbermouth isn't fussed about it... does that mean that the DTF has officially surpassed Blabbermouth in terms of drama-seeking?
For the record, I'm not condoning or condemning Marco's behavior, and I'm not trying to side with anybody. My reaction to the whole thing is a giant 'who cares?'
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It's pretty dickish to waste DT's time and money if they didn't even want the job and just did it "for fun" or "because they asked me too". I'm sure word get's around quick in the drumming world, so I seriously doubt they didn't know DT was serious about finding a new drummer, and that that's what these auditions were for. If Marco didn't want his footage shown, he shouldn't have agreed to sit in the make up chair, the interview chair, and in front of the damn cameras.
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It's pretty dickish to waste DT's time and money if they didn't even want the job and just did it "for fun" or "because they asked me too". I'm sure word get's around quick in the drumming world, so I seriously doubt they didn't know DT was serious about finding a new drummer, and that that's what these auditions were for. If Marco didn't want his footage shown, he shouldn't have agreed to sit in the make up chair, the interview chair, and in front of the damn cameras.
YOU WIN. Best post of the thread.
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ä lot of blah blah about nothing.
but i will try this joke the next time i sign a contract:
hey guys i signed it , but you promised me it doesn't mean anything!?
get real, i always thought the music business is though and cruel.
the other thing i don't understand:
if you do not give a fuck about DT, why audition?
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(What's your opinion on the album?)
I really liked it, my favorite song so long is "I want a parrot", "furtive jack" in a second place.
I think the album in the first listen showcase more the guitar player, but that's maybe cause i play guitar myself. The overall sound of the album is kind of like a very good mix between Eric Johnson (mellow/jazzy stuff) and Joe Satriani (guitar effect sounds like him).. with a little subtle hint of Liquid Tension.
On MM, i can say it's very groovy and very very tasty and classy. great sound, i liked the "latin" vibe on furtive jack.. altho i have to listen to it a bit more to completely appreciate his drumming (just listened to the whole album once yesterdey, bought the mp3 album on amazon)
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It's pretty dickish to waste DT's time and money if they didn't even want the job and just did it "for fun" or "because they asked me too". I'm sure word get's around quick in the drumming world, so I seriously doubt they didn't know DT was serious about finding a new drummer, and that that's what these auditions were for. If Marco didn't want his footage shown, he shouldn't have agreed to sit in the make up chair, the interview chair, and in front of the damn cameras.
Is it so impossible to not think in black or white? As reneranucci likened so excellent, it's like going to a job interview even though you can currently maintain yourself quite well financially. You were asked to come in, it's an interesting opportunity for sure, so you check it out. But, from that standpoint of financial security, you can also safely make demands. In the example of Marco, to not abandon his side projects.
Also, I mean was there ever a chance of Virgil Donati joining Dream Theater? I mean, really? Was he a dick too then for showing up?
rumborak
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It's pretty dickish to waste DT's time and money if they didn't even want the job and just did it "for fun" or "because they asked me too". I'm sure word get's around quick in the drumming world, so I seriously doubt they didn't know DT was serious about finding a new drummer, and that that's what these auditions were for. If Marco didn't want his footage shown, he shouldn't have agreed to sit in the make up chair, the interview chair, and in front of the damn cameras.
Nonsense. As has already been pointed out, this thing was an interview for both parties. Roddy or Pez both have every right to say they're going to attend to see if DT is a good fit for them, and not just the other way around. And for that matter, how do we know DT hadn't already decided on one or two of the participants, and had seven come along for the sake of their reality show? Does anybody think Metal Pez was really ever in contention?
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I think DT WANTED to have as many drummers of high caliber invited as possible even if they didn't care just to make a cool DVD.
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Exactly. I think DT filled up the ranks quite a bit with drummers they knew would make for interesting watching, but not really being that good a fit for Dream Theater anyway. Pez and Donati were the obvious examples I thought. And Lang.
rumborak
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So it's OK to accept $500 and free hotel accommodations, and then bitch when DT uses your footage of an audition you were apart of and knew they were filming with intentions of showing the world. Even if they did cut out his footage, he'd just look like a tool anyway for not wanting his audition shown.
"7 of the greatest drummers will be auditioning to be Dream Theater's new drummer..... But you'll only see 6 of them, because one of them doesn't like soap opera videos and didn't want his drumming shown... Yet, then did he bother answering interviews in front of a camera? Did he not know it was recording? Find out next time on DRAGONBALL Z!"
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Obviously he did agree to all of that. What I think he didn't like is the way they turned it into a soap opera. I think if DT had just shown the auditions and at the end shown their choice he wouldn't be saying all these things right now. I know I wouldn't be very happy if I signed for a drummer audition and ended up being part of a lameass reality show melodrama.
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You can tell clearly by the video which drummers wanted to be there (showing passion for it and had actually learn their parts) and who was just there to see what happened.
For passion: Obviously Mangini but Peter Wildoer. huge amount of respect for him now!
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Who is "Pez" and how did he get that name??
Wildoer did seem a little like a kid in a candy store, but if he felt like he wasn't going in with good chances of getting the job, it sure as hell didn't stop him from busting ass and giving 100%. And he seemed humble throughout, even letting them film and air his rejection call.
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You can tell clearly by the video which drummers wanted to be there (showing passion for it and had actually learn their parts) and who was just there to see what happened.
For passion: Obviously Mangini but Peter Wildoer. huge amount of respect for him now!
Wildoer is a boss. I would have welcomed his drumming (and his growls :P) to the band. But of course Mangini is killer too, so no complaints regarding the outcome.
Who is "Pez" and how did he get that name??
:lol that's Aquiles Priester.. someone made a joke earlier in this thread (rumborak I think) about how he came straight out of the metal pez dispenser lol
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Looks like he edited his comment - I don't see what you quoted when I click on the link.
I have a drummer friend who's close to Marco, and he was under the impression that DT offered Marco the gig, but he "preferred being on his own," so declined. I don't think that's true - after seeing this I'm starting to think it was Marco's way of covering up his sour grapes.
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I find it unlikely that an established drummer who's touring with Steven Wilson these days has the need to "cover up his sour grapes".
Note that for the three runner-ups in the audition according to DT, i.e. Mangini, Wildoer and Minnemann, only the Minnemann call was conspicuously absent. We will of course never know and it's all wild speculation, but the reason might simply also be that Mangini's call was made AFTER Minnemann's call, who rejected their offer.
rumborak
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I find it unlikely that an established drummer who's touring with Steven Wilson these days has the need to "cover up his sour grapes".
Note that for the three runner-ups in the audition according to DT, i.e. Mangini, Wildoer and Minnemann, only the Minnemann call was conspicuously absent. We will of course never know and it's all wild speculation, but the reason might simply also be that Mangini's call was made AFTER Minnemann's call, who rejected their offer.
rumborak
Maybe, but it seems more likely that once they had it down to two, they just showed the call to the "winner" to capitalize on the suspense, etc. Isn't that sort of standard practice for stuff like this?
-J
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That can definitely be a reason too, no doubt. You don't really want to show more than one turn-down, one is enough. That said, up until that point in the documentary, Marco and MM are the clear top 2. Peter Wildoer really only gets mentioned once as part of the top 3, but other than that there's very little mention of him, whereas they constantly talk about MM and Marco.
All I'm saying is that it is not completely unthinkable that indeed they wanted Marco, but he turned it down and they then called MM. Note also how MM mentioned what a long time passed before they called him.
rumborak
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For starters, I stand corrected on what I posted earlier - I guess Marco wasn't just joking around. And I'll admit that I've lost a little respect for the man. But honestly I'd chalk it up to more of a misunderstanding than anything else - as others have pointed out in this thread, he was probably understanding things one way, while the band and/or management understood them in a different way.
But there's something that's been bugging me, reading this thread: SnakeEyes, sorry dude but you come off like an immature hot-head, even if you've been a fan since 1993.
Yeah, especially a douchey "nom nom" shirt. I don't know what it is, but people who wear shirts like that piss me off.
Really? Would you been pissed at Mangini if he had been the one to wear that shirt? Would you have been pissed if Marco had become DT's new drummer? If that pisses you off, I'd hate to see how ballistic you'll get if someone does something far worse than wear a cookie monster T-shirt. Sheesh.
It's pretty dickish to waste DT's time and money if they didn't even want the job and just did it "for fun" or "because they asked me too". I'm sure word get's around quick in the drumming world, so I seriously doubt they didn't know DT was serious about finding a new drummer, and that that's what these auditions were for. If Marco didn't want his footage shown, he shouldn't have agreed to sit in the make up chair, the interview chair, and in front of the damn cameras.
YOU WIN. Best post of the thread.
Seriously SnakeEyes, read or re-read Reneranucci's post regarding going on job interviews - that is what Marco essentially did. He didn't have plans to join the band, but thought he'd give it a shot because maybe things will be much better than he anticipated. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.
Exactly. I think DT filled up the ranks quite a bit with drummers they knew would make for interesting watching, but not really being that good a fit for Dream Theater anyway. Pez and Donati were the obvious examples I thought. And Lang.
Rumbo, been agreeing with you in almost all your posts in this thread, but I think you are WAAAYYYY off on this one. I think it's as clear and simple as the band stated - they searched the internet and forums to see what drummers names came up repeatedly, and reached out to them to see if they'd be interesting in auditioning for the band. I doubt it had anything to do with them just looking for some guys that would look good on the documentary - if they did, why not choose some crazy jazz drummers or maybe the "drummer at the wrong gig?" - that would have made things interesting on screen.
Just because some guys don't look like they'd fit in the band after watching the documentary doesn't mean that DT saw it this way when contacting them, nor would they have cared - no one would know who worked out and who wouldn't until they actually auditioned. Obviously they reached out to these guys, not only because they thought they could play DT's back catalog, but because they thought these guys could reasonably be the next drummer of DT. Let's also remember that a lot can be done in editing the documentary to make it look boring or make it look interesting - I'm sure there were plenty of clips of each drummer that were not as impressive/flashy that weren't used because they wouldn't have been eye-catching to the viewer.
I have a drummer friend who's close to Marco, and he was under the impression that DT offered Marco the gig, but he "preferred being on his own," so declined. I don't think that's true - after seeing this I'm starting to think it was Marco's way of covering up his sour grapes.
Sorry Stin - gotta agree with Rumbo on this one. This isn't Marco's way of covering up for his sour grapes. When I spoke with Marco (as mentioned earlier in the thread), we got to talking about Mangini being chosen and what happened, and from what he told me, it sounded like he would have gotten the gig if he wanted it. But he said that his heart wasn't really into it, that he didn't know if he could make the commitment; he also said that seeing how excited Mangini was in wanting the gig, figured that Mangini should be the one to have it.
He also mention that he, JP and Jordan had plans to do some sort of project (and by that he specified a CD) together - had he not impressed them enough, why did the guys agree to do some other project with him? There's no word of them doing that with *any* of the others that auditioned. Let's not forget the comments James made about Marco in the documentary: "I was speechless watching this guy." Also he said "That was...the most incredible...by far." and JP responding "Yeah, easily." So I think that's enough evidence to back up what Marco said, even if the end of the documentary suggests otherwise (that Mangini was the clear winner from the beginning).
And for the record (not that it matters), I was bummed when Marco didn't get the gig, but having seen 3 shows with Mangini now, as well as how well Mangini has fit into the band and his positive attitude in everything he has said, I can't imagine Marco being there. I'm glad Mangini got picked in the end. I just hope Marco still gets to do that project with JP and Jordan - if they do, I'm sure it will be mind-blowing!
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Scotty, agree almost 100% with all you said there. Regarding your comment towards my post, I agree that they probably could imagine any of the drummers to be in DT in some fashion. But, I think there were wildly varying degrees of expectation. Pez and Donati are very removed from their type of music. Look at Donati; he's much more a jazz/fusion drummer, and it was clear from the first drum fill that he's not gonna change his style of drumming once he entered DT.
So, I would think Donati was a very long shot. Whereas Pez, I'm not sure why they invited him really. I mean, they knew he does all the writing in Angra; I'm sure they weren't expecting he would lay all that down?
Especially agree with your last paragraph. While style-wise I would have rather liked Marco in DT, passion-wise MM was the clear candidate to choose. DT ended up with the right drummer, that's crystal-clear.
rumborak
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So, I would think Donati was a very long shot. Whereas Pez, I'm not sure why they invited him really. I mean, they knew he does all the writing in Angra; I'm sure they weren't expecting he would lay all that down?
Actually, he didn't do any writing in Angra. For his band Hangar, yes he did all the writing, but I don't know if the DT guys knew that before auditioning him. Even if they did, they could have figured that he would be perfect for collaborating with in terms of songwriting. Don't forget that Marco also writes music on his own, so wouldn't that have disqualifed him too?
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I'm only bringing it up because they used it in the doc as the main reason for disqualification. And when I heard it, I thought "come on guys, you didn't realize that beforehand?"
rumborak
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I'm only bringing it up because they used it in the doc as the main reason for disqualification. And when I heard it, I thought "come on guys, you didn't realize that beforehand?"
Perhaps, but I'd call it creative editing. Or maybe when speaking with him, he told them that he only writes music by himself, thereby forcing them to either accept his songs without collaboration or not to include him in the songwriting process. Pure speculation I know - who knows why that was highlighted, but I doubt that was the only reason why they didn't choose him. For all we know, maybe the language barrier was too much (yes, he did speak English, but with a fairly strong accent). We'll never know, but I agree in hindsight that what was shown as the primary reason is pretty lame.
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I'm only bringing it up because they used it in the doc as the main reason for disqualification. And when I heard it, I thought "come on guys, you didn't realize that beforehand?"
rumborak
That one felt, to me, like a bit of a cop-out. Compared to some of the others, he just plain botched some portions of the songs. Kind of akin to Marco's mentioning that it's very different from playing along with the CD. And they wanted to instead give the reason that he didn't fit in instead so that everyone's put in a good light. Of course, I could be wrong here.
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So Mike Mangini Now is like Newsted when he joined Metallica
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So Mike Mangini Now is like Newsted when he joined Metallica
?
B.Lee
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I mean he will have little or no input to the Composition in DT
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I mean he will have little or no input to the Composition in DT
We won't know that until the next album.
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JR has said that they are writing new music and making new stuff up in rehearsals with Mike Mangini, so he is already contributing.
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Exactly. I think DT filled up the ranks quite a bit with drummers they knew would make for interesting watching, but not really being that good a fit for Dream Theater anyway. Pez and Donati were the obvious examples I thought. And Lang.
rumborak
Gotta throw the bullshit flag....
I doubt that they would have wasted peoples time with auditions who they knew right out of the gate they had no interest in evaluating... Sorry, just dont see it as it's not the style of the guys left in the band.
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There's always gonna be a certain amount of "going through the motions" when doing auditions. Even though the members might think that certain candidates may not shall I say "fit in", they still want to see what they can do.
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The amount of speculation is tremendous in this thread : what we know for sure because it was written, is that MM told DT "F U"" and given that he's expressed his resentment at other times, I don't think it was in jest. That's enough for me to have an idea.
B.Lee
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Dear whoever came up with the name Metal Pez.
I love you.
Love,
antigoon
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Dear whoever came up with the name Metal Pez.
I love you.
Love,
antigoon
HHAHAHA THIS !!!
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Dear whoever came up with the name Metal Pez.
I love you.
Love,
antigoon
This. :tup
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Sorry Stin - gotta agree with Rumbo on this one. This isn't Marco's way of covering up for his sour grapes. When I spoke with Marco (as mentioned earlier in the thread), we got to talking about Mangini being chosen and what happened, and from what he told me, it sounded like he would have gotten the gig if he wanted it. But he said that his heart wasn't really into it, that he didn't know if he could make the commitment; he also said that seeing how excited Mangini was in wanting the gig, figured that Mangini should be the one to have it.
He also mention that he, JP and Jordan had plans to do some sort of project (and by that he specified a CD) together - had he not impressed them enough, why did the guys agree to do some other project with him? There's no word of them doing that with *any* of the others that auditioned. Let's not forget the comments James made about Marco in the documentary: "I was speechless watching this guy." Also he said "That was...the most incredible...by far." and JP responding "Yeah, easily." So I think that's enough evidence to back up what Marco said, even if the end of the documentary suggests otherwise (that Mangini was the clear winner from the beginning).
And for the record (not that it matters), I was bummed when Marco didn't get the gig, but having seen 3 shows with Mangini now, as well as how well Mangini has fit into the band and his positive attitude in everything he has said, I can't imagine Marco being there. I'm glad Mangini got picked in the end. I just hope Marco still gets to do that project with JP and Jordan - if they do, I'm sure it will be mind-blowing!
That's exactly the information I had heard plus I totally agree with your last paragraph.
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I like how so many people are assuming that Marco is totally in the wrong and there isn't a possibility that someone, somewhere, in the DT camp-management, label, whatever-could have misrepresented to someone their intentions for the footage they filmed.
Not saying that's the case, but the mere NOTION of it isn't even occurring to people.
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I like how so many people are assuming that Marco is totally in the wrong and there isn't a possibility that someone, somewhere, in the DT camp-management, label, whatever-could have misrepresented to someone their intentions for the footage they filmed.
Not saying that's the case, but the mere NOTION of it isn't even occurring to people.
*robot voice* Must....Support....Dream Theater.... Dream Theater Wrong...Does Not Compute...
Some of us like to be led like lambs to the slaughter
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I like how so many people are assuming that Marco is totally in the wrong and there isn't a possibility that someone, somewhere, in the DT camp-management, label, whatever-could have misrepresented to someone their intentions for the footage they filmed.
Not saying that's the case, but the mere NOTION of it isn't even occurring to people.
*robot voice* Must....Support....Dream Theater.... Dream Theater Wrong...Does Not Compute...
Some of us like to be led like lambs to the slaughter
Perhaps it's time to lock the thread?
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No. Just because some on each side of the debate love to ignorantly mislabel the other side doesn't mean the thread needs to be locked.
-
DT ended up with the right drummer, that's crystal-clear.
/thread
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I like how so many people are assuming that Marco is totally in the wrong and there isn't a possibility that someone, somewhere, in the DT camp-management, label, whatever-could have misrepresented to someone their intentions for the footage they filmed.
Not saying that's the case, but the mere NOTION of it isn't even occurring to people.
fanboys will act the way fanboys act.
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All I'm gonna say about this is, he showed he wouldn't be a good fit for DT.
Also, the smilies should help...like saying...F U DTF :p just a post with added humor. Plus,it's the fans who keep bringing it up. Same with interviewera, all are guilty. Fun thread though.
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I like how so many people are assuming that Marco is totally in the wrong and there isn't a possibility that someone, somewhere, in the DT camp-management, label, whatever-could have misrepresented to someone their intentions for the footage they filmed.
Not saying that's the case, but the mere NOTION of it isn't even occurring to people.
fanboys will act the way fanboys act.
This is the worst saying someone can come up with! I think that MM is off with his comment and I'm not a DT fanboy. As for fanboys, how many MM's fanboys there are too! Beginning with Rumby, people that are as biased towards MM as some are biased towards DT.
And honestly, just because you put a smiley allows you to say "FU DT"? Sorry, but if you add his previous comments, I don't take it as humor, only as "FU DT", which is pretty clear in my book.
B.Lee
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Dear whoever came up with the name Metal Pez.
I love you.
Love,
antigoon
That would have been me. Thank you :lol
As for fanboys, how many MM's fanboys there are too! Beginning with Rumby, people that are as biased towards MM as some are biased towards DT.
I'm by now means a Minnemann fanboy (I'm assuming you mean Marco when using "MM" in this context? Not the best acronym, you know), other than Spaceship One I don't even know his work. What I am objecting to is to jump on his throat when he airs his grievances, like many here do. And with Scotty's account, its pretty damn clear that what was shown in the documentary is probably a very cleaned up version of reality.
rumborak
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What I am objecting to is to jump on his throat when he airs his grievances, like many here do.
Agreed. But the tendency of some who responded to blindly defend Marco and assume the band must have screwed him is equally objectionable.
-
Dear whoever came up with the name Metal Pez.
I love you.
Love,
antigoon
Really? Personally, I find it pretty disrespectful.
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Of course Marco is going to say if he wanted the gig, it would have been his.
-
Dear whoever came up with the name Metal Pez.
I love you.
Love,
antigoon
Really? Personally, I find it pretty disrespectful.
I see how it can be disrespectful when singling out one individual. Though, I know of those people that attempt to overdue to the "Metulz :metal" for their wardrobe.
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Dear whoever came up with the name Metal Pez.
I love you.
Love,
antigoon
Really? Personally, I find it pretty disrespectful.
I see how it can be disrespectful when singling out one individual. Though, I know of those people that attempt to overdue to the "Metulz :metal " for their wardrobe.
Well, I'm not a big fan of judging people based on their wardrobe to start with. In this case, DT had enough respect for these 7 drummers to invite them to audition for the band, but now 1 of the 7 apparently isn't worthy of being referred to by his actual name.
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Well, I'm not a big fan of judging people based on their wardrobe to start with. In this case, DT had enough respect for these 7 drummers to invite them to audition for the band, but now 1 of the 7 apparently isn't worthy of being referred to by his actual name.
This is a good point. I'll admit I found it funny but I'm sure if I was AP, I might be offended.
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Oh come on. Life will be a long and drab if you get bothered by stuff like that
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Perhaps "Metal Pez" was chosen *cough* rumborak *cough* because Aquiles Priester is too difficult to remember to spell ;)
All I can say is this: He could have worn an N'SYNC shirt for all I care... The dude can play drums better than most (as shown by him being selected by DT). Period.
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Agreed. But the tendency of some who responded to blindly defend Marco and assume the band must have screwed him is equally objectionable.
I am certainly not defending his "FU" comment, because yes, that was kinda MP, errr Bush league and doesn't belong on Facebook. I am however rather convinced, for several reasons, that his accusations are true and also that he was indeed offered the gig but turned it down. And I am also convinced that in the long run it would have been for the worse for DT.
Well, I'm not a big fan of judging people based on their wardrobe to start with. In this case, DT had enough respect for these 7 drummers to invite them to audition for the band, but now 1 of the 7 apparently isn't worthy of being referred to by his actual name.
I should probably reply to this since I am the origin of the "Pez" nickname. In Geman we have an idiom that's called "to lean out of the window" (not sure if there is an equivalent in English) that essentially means if you're doing something 'questionable' (in the wider sense) you shouldn't be surprised of the dangers involved (one of the dangers being ridicule). All the drummers except Aquiles/Pez were very personable, nice guys who showed up in their normal outfit to showcase their drumming. Only Aquiles stood out to me as someone who was buying a little bit too much into the whole metal image. His outfit was all pitch-black, he wore black gloves for drumming, the whole nine yards. So, if you do that, you shouldn't be surprised if people make fun of you a bit. And judging by the fact that it caught on, I guess I'm not the only person who thought that. Besides, "Pez" isn't really that bad a nickname.
rumborak
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I should probably reply to this since I am the origin of the "Pez" nickname. In Geman we have an idiom that's called "to lean out of the window" (not sure if there is an equivalent in English) that essentially means if you're doing something 'questionable' (in the wider sense) you shouldn't be surprised of the dangers involved (one of the dangers being ridicule).
rumborak
I think we say "Cut your nose off despite your face". Or, "you reap what you sow"
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Those guys drum their asses off and you people pay attention to their outfits? :lol
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You didn't notice Peter Wildoer's luscious hair?
(https://hugefrigginarms.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/lor12.jpg)
He is a dream boy!
BTW, regarding MM vs Marco, I think the next album will be very telling in terms of what MM will bring to the table. On ADTOE he's been very MP-like in his drumming. That was good for establishing that DT can continue in full steam, but it will be interesting to see what he can offer.
rumborak
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Is that pic from Back to the Future? I surely would have paid attention to her outfit if she had auditioned! :metal
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I think we say "Cut your nose off despite your face". Or, "you reap what you sow"
I think we say "to spite"
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You didn't notice Peter Wildoer's luscious hair?
(https://hugefrigginarms.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/lor12.jpg)
He is a dream boy!
BTW, regarding MM vs Marco, I think the next album will be very telling in terms of what MM will bring to the table. On ADTOE he's been very MP-like in his drumming. That was good for establishing that DT can continue in full steam, but it will be interesting to see what he can offer.
rumborak
Actually, the line is "He's an absolute dream." :biggrin:
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Depends on which scene you mean. When Doc and Marty are in the school talking about the Enchantment Under the Sea dance, Lorraine runs past Doc and say "Isn't he a dream boy?"
/geek
rumborak
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Depends on which scene you mean. When Doc and Marty are in the school talking about the Enchantment Under the Sea dance, Lorraine runs past Doc and say "Isn't he a dream boy?"
/geek
rumborak
Actually, she says dreamboat.
/ubergeek
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I think we say "Cut your nose off despite your face". Or, "you reap what you sow"
I think we say "to spite"
Michael Scott says, "Spider face." :lol :lol :lol :lol
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Depends on which scene you mean. When Doc and Marty are in the school talking about the Enchantment Under the Sea dance, Lorraine runs past Doc and say "Isn't he a dream boy?"
/geek
rumborak
Actually, she says dreamboat.
/ubergeek
Holy crap, all those years watching the movie and until now I got the line wrong!!
Is that a 50's expression, calling somebody a dreamboat?
rumborak
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On a different note, has anybody checked out Marco's thing with Guthrie Govan (and some other guy I forgot) called "The Aristocrats"? I listened to whatever the sound samples there are on the web page, but didn't really click with me I have to say.
rumborak
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Yes, it's a now old-fashioned slang term referring to someone (esp of the opposite sex) who is seen as very attractive.
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The problem with your reasoning Rumby is that you have no evidence whatsoever to back up your "convictions". I'm not saying that what you say is wrong, just that what you say is just an assumption (btw, you said yourself earlier on that you are biased towards MM, so how can you be objective?). The only evidence we have is the "FU DT" from MM. And what I find extremely surprising is that some people defending MM were the ones who jumped on MP for uttering that kind of statements after he left DT.
B.Lee
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On a different note, has anybody checked out Marco's thing with Guthrie Govan (and some other guy I forgot) called "The Aristocrats"? I listened to whatever the sound samples there are on the web page, but didn't really click with me I have to say.
rumborak
Yes i've listened to the Aristocrat's, technically its pretty crazy and I met Guthrie Govan (along with Marco) backstage at the Steven Wilson gig, he's a nice guy.
But musically....to be honest nothing stuck really with that album. You listen, jaw drops at times, smile here and there, it ends and you can't remember much about it.
Oh Bryan Beller (Steve Vai) is the bass player - he's incredible !
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My best guess is it's because of Govan, because that's really everything I've heard from him is to me. Jaw-dropping, but nothing I would ever listen to twice.
rumborak
-
On a different note, has anybody checked out Marco's thing with Guthrie Govan (and some other guy I forgot) called "The Aristocrats"? I listened to whatever the sound samples there are on the web page, but didn't really click with me I have to say.
rumborak
This guy has a total hard on for Marco. Grab your pitchforks and torches!
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My best guess is it's because of Govan, because that's really everything I've heard from him is to me. Jaw-dropping, but nothing I would ever listen to twice.
rumborak
Yeah I think your right, he's got great command of so many techniques, can pretty much play anything but......and this is where players like JP stand out from the crowd....he doesn't seem to have one decent tune in him.
When your listening to very technical music, its nice to have some erm....melody, a great riff, something to keep the interest going.
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On a different note, has anybody checked out Marco's thing with Guthrie Govan (and some other guy I forgot) called "The Aristocrats"? I listened to whatever the sound samples there are on the web page, but didn't really click with me I have to say.
rumborak
Yes i've listened to the Aristocrat's, technically its pretty crazy and I met Guthrie Govan (along with Marco) backstage at the Steven Wilson gig, he's a nice guy.
But musically....to be honest nothing stuck really with that album. You listen, jaw drops at times, smile here and there, it ends and you can't remember much about it.
Oh Bryan Beller (Steve Vai) is the bass player - he's incredible !
Yep. It makes for a nice listen and has some interesting stuff but not a memorable album at all. I would recommend the albums with Illegal Aliens from MM.
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I should probably reply to this since I am the origin of the "Pez" nickname. In Geman we have an idiom that's called "to lean out of the window" (not sure if there is an equivalent in English) that essentially means if you're doing something 'questionable' (in the wider sense) you shouldn't be surprised of the dangers involved (one of the dangers being ridicule). All the drummers except Aquiles/Pez were very personable, nice guys who showed up in their normal outfit to showcase their drumming. Only Aquiles stood out to me as someone who was buying a little bit too much into the whole metal image. His outfit was all pitch-black, he wore black gloves for drumming, the whole nine yards. So, if you do that, you shouldn't be surprised if people make fun of you a bit. And judging by the fact that it caught on, I guess I'm not the only person who thought that. Besides, "Pez" isn't really that bad a nickname.
rumborak
Exactly how does AP look any different in the DT audition than he does in any of his other vids?
He's wearing a Paiste t-shirt with a white skull and drumstick motif. Very similar to shirts he wore in other vids so i'd say it was his regular outfit. Drum shirt, shorts and drum gloves, check. Looks like a drummer to me. :P
And those black gloves are Ahead drumming gloves which, to my knowledge, only come in one style.
I fail to see how any of these things deserve ridicule. If they do then why not pick on Wildoer for giving the metal horns?
He also seemed very personable in that and other vids imo, his apology for his mistake at the end of The Dance of Eternity has me convinced of that.
To be honest i think your attitude towards him is a little beneath you, and having been on the receiving of similar and worse from a certain type of people with a very judgmental attitude towards anyone or anything different, it makes me a little uncomfortable.
I suppose the word Pez isn't that bad of a nickname but it's origin makes it insulting.
/rant
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Would 'generic-looking metal drummer' be less offensive? Because that's all the nickname means, and it seems pretty accurate to me.
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I don't care how he looks, I think this guy can play drums! :metal
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Metal Pez makes me think of candy. Who doesn't like candy...? :biggrin:
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I don't care how he looks, I think this guy can play drums! :metal
:tup
Metal Pez makes me think of candy. Who doesn't like candy...? :biggrin:
Aww how sweet :P
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Would 'generic-looking metal drummer' be less offensive? Because that's all the nickname means, and it seems pretty accurate to me.
Not really. The other 6 drummers that auditioned get called by their actual names (or initials). Why doesn't AP deserve the same respect?
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What's with the need to show utmost respect on a Dream Theater discussion forum, to some random Brazilian drummer who is marginally connected to Dream Theater?
Jesus Christ, it's a joke, nothing more, nothing less. But, just so that you don't get the runs from this altercation, here's nicknames for all of them:
Mike Mangini: Mangina
Thomas Lang: The Auditionator
Marco Minnemann: FU-DT
Virgil Donati: I wash at zhe audishion
Peter Wildoer: Fabio on Drums
Derek Roddy: Motherfucking Snakes on my Drumkit!
Aquiles Priester: Metal Pez
rumborak
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itaCCB4p-MU
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Derek Roddy: Motherfucking Snakes on my Drumkit!
:rollin
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What's with the need to show utmost respect on a Dream Theater discussion forum, to some random Brazilian drummer who is marginally connected to Dream Theater?
Jesus Christ, it's a joke, nothing more, nothing less. But, just so that you don't get the runs from this altercation, here's nicknames for all of them:
Mike Mangini: Mangina
Thomas Lang: The Auditionator
Marco Minnemann: FU-DT
Virgil Donati: I wash at zhe audishion
Peter Wildoer: Fabio on Drums
Derek Roddy: Motherfucking Snakes on my Drumkit!
Aquiles Priester: Metal Pez
rumborak
Please never leave here :lol
-
What's with the need to show utmost respect on a Dream Theater discussion forum, to some random Brazilian drummer who is marginally connected to Dream Theater?
Jesus Christ, it's a joke, nothing more, nothing less. But, just so that you don't get the runs from this altercation, here's nicknames for all of them:
Mike Mangini: Mangina
Thomas Lang: The Auditionator
Marco Minnemann: FU-DT
Virgil Donati: I wash at zhe audishion
Peter Wildoer: Fabio on Drums
Derek Roddy: Motherfucking Snakes on my Drumkit!
Aquiles Priester: Metal Pez
rumborak
and there are people out there who say germans do not have a sense of humor :lol
-
What's with the need to show utmost respect on a Dream Theater discussion forum, to some random Brazilian drummer who is marginally connected to Dream Theater?
Jesus Christ, it's a joke, nothing more, nothing less. But, just so that you don't get the runs from this altercation, here's nicknames for all of them:
Mike Mangini: Mangina
Thomas Lang: The Auditionator
Marco Minnemann: FU-DT
Virgil Donati: I wash at zhe audishion
Peter Wildoer: Fabio on Drums
Derek Roddy: Motherfucking Snakes on my Drumkit!
Aquiles Priester: Metal Pez
rumborak
Rumby, you're crazy, that's why we love you! :-*
B.Lee
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What's with the need to show utmost respect on a Dream Theater discussion forum, to some random Brazilian drummer who is marginally connected to Dream Theater?
Jesus Christ, it's a joke, nothing more, nothing less. But, just so that you don't get the runs from this altercation, here's nicknames for all of them:
Mike Mangini: Mangina
Thomas Lang: The Auditionator
Marco Minnemann: FU-DT
Virgil Donati: I wash at zhe audishion
Peter Wildoer: Fabio on Drums
Derek Roddy: Motherfucking Snakes on my Drumkit!
Aquiles Priester: Metal Pez
rumborak
Please never leave here :lol
This times 8 bazillion and 4
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What's with the need to show utmost respect on a Dream Theater discussion forum, to some random Brazilian drummer who is marginally connected to Dream Theater?
Personally, I try to be respectful of people, in general (unless they show themselves unworthy through their actions). But, maybe that's just me. I just keep thinking about how awesome it was when Peter Wildoer joined the forum and was made to feel welcome, and then imagining if, instead, he'd come here to find he'd been labeled with infantile nicknames.
Priester clearly wasn't the right guy for DT, but he acquitted himself pretty well, and he certainly seems much cooler and worthy of respect than, say, Derek Roddy.
-
What's with the need to show utmost respect on a Dream Theater discussion forum, to some random Brazilian drummer who is marginally connected to Dream Theater?
Jesus Christ, it's a joke, nothing more, nothing less. But, just so that you don't get the runs from this altercation, here's nicknames for all of them:
Mike Mangini: Mangina
Thomas Lang: The Auditionator
Marco Minnemann: FU-DT
Virgil Donati: I wash at zhe audishion
Peter Wildoer: Fabio on Drums
Derek Roddy: Motherfucking Snakes on my Drumkit!
Aquiles Priester: Metal Pez
rumborak
Virgil's and Derek's :lol
-
Personally, I try to be respectful of people, in general (unless they show themselves unworthy through their actions). But, maybe that's just me. I just keep thinking about how awesome it was when Peter Wildoer joined the forum and was made to feel welcome, and then imagining if, instead, he'd come here to find he'd been labeled with infantile nicknames.
Sure, but on the other hand, maybe it wouldn't be too bad for him to realize how he comes across publicly to some people? We are certainly prime target audience for his music, but quite a few of us feel he's crossing the line to tackiness too much. That doesn't mean he should change, but it might simply be something he's not aware of. I also would hope he's internet-savvy enough that he's not checking online forums to see his feelings handled with satin gloves.
rumborak
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Thomas Lang: The Auditionator
Outstanding.
-
- (woops, double posted)
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Well that was really lame of DT if it's true, and it probably is. I don't get all the people flaming Marco, he was clearly annoyed by this, and I would have been, in fact I'd make sure everyone hears about it so the don't fall for the same thing.
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Yeah, I'd hate for anyone else to fall into the same trap of getting an all expenses paid (and then some) one-time opportunity to audition for a big prog metal band, and free exposure. I really feel for the guy.
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Yeah, I'd hate for anyone else to fall into the same trap of getting an all expensives paid (and then some) one-time opportunity to audition for a big prog metal band, and free exposure. I really feel for the guy.
+1 ;D
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Personally, I try to be respectful of people, in general (unless they show themselves unworthy through their actions). But, maybe that's just me. I just keep thinking about how awesome it was when Peter Wildoer joined the forum and was made to feel welcome, and then imagining if, instead, he'd come here to find he'd been labeled with infantile nicknames.
Sure, but on the other hand, maybe it wouldn't be too bad for him to realize how he comes across publicly to some people? We are certainly prime target audience for his music, but quite a few of us feel he's crossing the line to tackiness too much. That doesn't mean he should change, but it might simply be something he's not aware of. I also would hope he's internet-savvy enough that he's not checking online forums to see his feelings handled with satin gloves.
rumborak
Leather gloves, surely?
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It's funny how everyone is taking DT's side, calling Marco a whiner and whatnot. Not really surprising though.
I agree. Absolutely astonishing that the folks on Dreamtheaterforums.org would take DT's side. :laugh:
This sums it up best:
Er, no one held a gun to this guy's head and made him audition. If he didn't like the idea of the documentary, then he shouldn't have taken part in the audition. Simple as that. He can talk about the unwritten gentleman's agreement all he wants, but if he signed something that gave them the right to use him in it, then it is his own fault. No one forced him to sign anything.
Called an album title 5 years before release :rollin
;) Very ASTONISHING.... ;)
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And in italicized text. A pun 5 years ahead of its time. I was speechless watching that comment.