Jordan Rudess Interview by Rock Your Life 22 August 2011

[Dream Team]

^^ Great post by Rob, as usual.

Also, thanks to Hef and Scotty for backing up my statements about FII. If you heard that record after getting immersed in I&W and Awake, there is no way you could think it was the same band unless you saw their name on the cover.

[tgstk2]

after all this with DT, MP really diserved this happy times within DT.
MP leaving giving DT much mor exposure than they had before, they are news on the internet.
ADTOE is, i guess, more awaited for that SC or BC SL which was just another DT release.

MP might not be the easiest guy to work with, but i guess with his personality he wants the best for his bands and he will start a little war he somebody disagrees, that backfired on him seeing his plan was not working anymore....it even made him not like being in DT anymore.

much props to MP.
but in the end, the drama is something which is so far from my reality that i just pop in a DT cd and listen to music. as that is what i love...music.... the drama...i leave that to paris hilton...

[emtee]

Just weighing in on the FII topic, as someone who was there in real time. I was completely thrown for a loop, especially
after hearing Burning My Soul for the first time. I actually took a long hiatus from DT back then...the one and only time,
but I would occasionally throw in FII and almost always skip to Trial Of Tears, admiring how much I LOVED that song.
Gradually as the years passed I climbed back on the DT train I came to really love and appreciate FII and I consider it
a top tier album now.

As sad as I am about the whole split there is one glowing positive thing that appears will come from this and it's the one
thing that has recently bothered me about DT. It appears Inspiration corner is gone forever. Dead. RIP. From ToT
all the way through BC&SL (though I still loved and respected DT) I began to get very bummed at how much easily
hearable influence other bands had over the music. 8V was the peak of this. Though a very pleasurable listen in some
places, the music flew too close to it's inspiration(s) and it was at this point that I began to wonder what DT was or
what they were trying to be.

[KevShmev]

I loved FII when it came out.  Sure, I knew it wasn't as good as I&W or Awake, but I didn't care.  And while I can't speak for the reaction of the fanbase, as I was not online regularly till 2000, I don't remember FII being criticized much at all when I first joined dt.net in the summer of 2000.  And it definitely would have caught my attention.  I cannot remember when the frequent criticism of it started, and if it was before or after Portnoy made his criticisms of it much more public, but I just know that it wasn't for a while. 

[snowdog]

Okay, but most of the FII versions are better than the demos, and You or Me is just as bad as You Not Me.

And remember that had the band gotten their way on FII, we never would have gotten Hell's Kitchen, which is all kinds of awesome.  It is a travesty that that song has never been performed in full since Rudess joined the band, but hopefully the band will now recognize its greatness and play it live again.  Having good bits of that song wasted in an otherwise meh song like Burning My Soul would have been a damn shame.

I totally agree with you about Hell's Kitchen.  To me this is a perfect example of having an outside ear.  It worked MUCH better on its own and really didn't fit into BMS.

I disagree with your assessment of Raise the Knife though.  For me at the very least I would rate it behind ToT and HK from that material.

I agree with Setlist Scotty's recollection of FII at the time.  I was also on the YtseJam list and I like many others were disappointed with the album at the time.

As for Mike Portnoy's thoughts on the album.  I imagine that the album conjures up thoughts of the hell they went through with the Record Label.  So I'm not surprised there.  I've seen it elsewhere.  Rush hasn't really played much from Caress of Steel due to the crappy tour they had supporting it.  Yes it sucks for the fans of that material but it is understandable why a band might feel a certain way about the songs.

[Pantherize]

Sorry to muck up a thread about Jordan's interview but as a fan since I&W I can add to the voice saying that I was extremely disappointed at FII at the time of release and all my friends who were DT fans felt the same way. In fact, other than a few selected songs, I'd say I probably listened to it from start to finish maybe only a dozen times or so before SFAM. I dutifully bought 5Y but I remember feeling a HUGE sense of relief and excitement upon hearing SFAM and thinking, THIS is the band I became a fan of... They're back! And quite honestly it's the feeling I hope I get again upon hearing the new album because the last several for me have been pretty meh.

[gm5k]

Sorry to muck up a thread about Jordan's interview

no worries, this is actually a FII thread 

[TheOutlawXanadu]

But I don't think he knows where his weaknesses are. This is going to sound like a very odd sentiment from someone who completely adores Octavarium and Systematic Chaos, but I think one of those weaknesses - maybe the most significant - is that he's not a very good producer. Mediocre, even. Which is fine! Nobody's superb at everything, but I think he's aiming for it regardless. Specifically, he seems to manufacture consent, rather than garner it - hence "Dream Theater police," etc. - and his creative decisions are a little iffy. He's overseen some lovely music, but he's got a very formulaic attitude to structure, routine, and even the songwriting process. Yet, he then grows fidgety and wonders why the band might have become a little "stale," in his own words. Thing is, he's very steadfast and reluctant to try out new things (see also: his insistence on the guitar/keyboard tradeoff in one of the BCSL behind the scenes videos, his refusal to entertain John Myung's ideas regarding jamming, his refusal to demo tracks, his very definite structure to songwriting sessions, his lack of willingness to work with an outside producer, evidencewise) which are not qualities that a good producer should really have.

Very astute point! Another thing that I have always found very interesting about Portnoy is that I have heard him say on many occasions that he loves many kinds of music, but everytime he releases his favorite CDs of the year, they are all prog or metal CDs. I don't know exactly what my point is here... It just seems to me - kind of like what you were saying - that Portnoy is a little too set in his ways, even if he would never admit it. I hope that makes some sense.

Question: Does anyone get the feeling that Portnoy kind of wished Dream Theater were a different band than they were? Sometimes I feel like Portnoy would have preferred a Russell Allen bad-ass vocalist to a James LaBrie operatically trained vocalist, and that he would of preferred a cool, rock star band to a nerdy, laid back band.

[coffees for closers]

well the tendency of the transcript is probably correct.
maybe he didn't say yes/no or mike portnoy police.
The bottom line is that they now felt free somehow to do what they want and that JR really liked this approach.
Also he felt like he could spread his engery and his opion.

well than to me that sounds like JR is a pussy if he didn't had the balls to stand up for his opinion or asking for another approach to write music.
It's not like MP is a great dicatator.....if he really was they wouldn't be able to write a single note together.
that's a real dick move right there JR!

Dude, Mike always admitted to being a control freak, and also believed he had the true pulse of what DT fans wanted. Jordan was told this when if came in the band so from day one that role was established. It's not easy bucking the system until the leader is gone. Derek was his own man and look what happend to him.

fuck!

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I agree. Usually I subscribe to the logic of YOU KNEW WHAT YOU WERE GETTING INTO but it seems like when Jordan joined the band, Portnoy was only the slightly dominant figure and over the years he became the hugely dominant figure. Very reasonable that Rudess eventually got fed up with it.

[coffees for closers]

One thing about Rudess's comments that I can understand being miffed about:

Whenever Portnoy would say FII was a bad album and treat it like the red-headed step-child of the DT catalog, it was always a bit of a bummer.  While LiTS, ToT, NM, HY, and PS would be played often, the album as a whole was quasi-officially the "bad" DT album.  I never thought this was fair.  I think 8/11 of the songs are good to great in quality, so how is this not a good album?  Why am I in the wrong for liking it?  Could it have been better?  Oh yeah, no question.  The lack of Raise the Knife is borderline inexcusable, and I didn't like a couple of the edits in LiTS, but it's still a good album.  So it feels weird to have a member of the band that created it say that it's an artistic failure.

I agree, I think the sound of the recording on that album is actually great. If you read the DT bio book Mike always hated that album because he never got along with Kevin Shirley and didn't like the fact that Desmond Child helped out. If you recall Mike said that after the tour for that album he told the guys he was leaving the band.

[bosk1]

well the tendency of the transcript is probably correct.
maybe he didn't say yes/no or mike portnoy police.
The bottom line is that they now felt free somehow to do what they want and that JR really liked this approach.
Also he felt like he could spread his engery and his opion.

well than to me that sounds like JR is a pussy if he didn't had the balls to stand up for his opinion or asking for another approach to write music.
It's not like MP is a great dicatator.....if he really was they wouldn't be able to write a single note together.
that's a real dick move right there JR!

Dude, Mike always admitted to being a control freak, and also believed he had the true pulse of what DT fans wanted. Jordan was told this when if came in the band so from day one that role was established. It's not easy bucking the system until the leader is gone. Derek was his own man and look what happend to him.

fuck!

You know, when someone gets a warning from me about a certain post, it's probably not going to put you in the best standing to quote said post in agreement. 

[Setlist Scotty]

But I don't think he knows where his weaknesses are. This is going to sound like a very odd sentiment from someone who completely adores Octavarium and Systematic Chaos, but I think one of those weaknesses - maybe the most significant - is that he's not a very good producer. Mediocre, even. Which is fine! Nobody's superb at everything, but I think he's aiming for it regardless. Specifically, he seems to manufacture consent, rather than garner it - hence "Dream Theater police," etc. - and his creative decisions are a little iffy. He's overseen some lovely music, but he's got a very formulaic attitude to structure, routine, and even the songwriting process. Yet, he then grows fidgety and wonders why the band might have become a little "stale," in his own words. Thing is, he's very steadfast and reluctant to try out new things (see also: his insistence on the guitar/keyboard tradeoff in one of the BCSL behind the scenes videos, his refusal to entertain John Myung's ideas regarding jamming, his refusal to demo tracks, his very definite structure to songwriting sessions, his lack of willingness to work with an outside producer, evidencewise) which are not qualities that a good producer should really have.

Very astute point! Another thing that I have always found very interesting about Portnoy is that I have heard him say on many occasions that he loves many kinds of music, but everytime he releases his favorite CDs of the year, they are all prog or metal CDs. I don't know exactly what my point is here... It just seems to me - kind of like what you were saying - that Portnoy is a little too set in his ways, even if he would never admit it. I hope that makes some sense.

Question: Does anyone get the feeling that Portnoy kind of wished Dream Theater were a different band than they were? Sometimes I feel like Portnoy would have preferred a Russell Allen bad-ass vocalist to a James LaBrie operatically trained vocalist, and that he would of preferred a cool, rock star band to a nerdy, laid back band.

Agree regarding Rob's post - hadn't ever had that line of thought before, but what Rob says makes sense.

Regarding OX's question, I think he definitely would have loved for DT to be more different. The comments that he made in reference to JL's vocals when JL's spot in the band was in jeopardy (late 2002-2003) show that he tired of James' vocals, but acknowledged that they are part of DT's sound. And judging by his appearance (tatted up, dyed beard, piercings) and stage presence in comparison to the other guys in DT, I'm sure he would have loved for DT to have more of a "rock star" quality to them, which I think he's gotten with Adrenaline Mob.

If you read the DT bio book Mike always hated that album because he never got along with Kevin Shirley and didn't like the fact that Desmond Child helped out. If you recall Mike said that after the tour for that album he told the guys he was leaving the band.

Just to clarify, Mike butted heads with Caveman during the pre-production of FII (the period of time where he hacked up and re-arranged the FII tracks). IIRC, during the recording of FII and since then, they've always been great friends. Had they not (as was the case with Dave Prater), you can be assured that Caveman would've never worked with DT or any DT-related side projects after FII.

[nikatapi]

It would be nice if the mods could make a new thread and move the last posts there, since it is a very interesting conversation, and the thread is moving completely off topic.

[Orion1967]

Well the translation is accurate to a degree

Perhaps, but the real problem is that Jordan said whatever he said in English, and we do not have the transcript of that.  So Jordan's English statement was translated, and then translated from that back into English.  So, honestly, we don't really know what was said or what was meant by it.

If that is true, then MP deserves a bigger chunk of blame about the predictability of SC and BC&SL.

There is nothing blameworthy about either album.  Period.

QFT....  period.

English > Another Language > English = WAAAAAY to many opportunities for twisted meaning and incorrect context.

[senecadawg2]

The comments on the bottom of the page are a bit sickening. Perhaps Rudess was a little harsh in this interview but I truly believe it is deserved and I think his tone in the interview was probably much less hostile. Blabbermouth is all about drama, so take this with a whole shaker-full of salt.

Now I wish everyone would just completely forget about Portnoy.

[ytserush]

I guess this really IS another Falling into Infinty thread. Since we're coming up on the 14th anniversary of its release, let's take a trip in the wayback machine.

Here are a few quotes from interviews taken from some Images and Words fanzines from back then. Interpret them as you like.

--------------------------
Summer 1997  Issue #14
James:

Question: There's talk about DT possibly releasing the next album as a double CD...


James: No way. I think it would be suicide for us to do that now. First of all, we want to attract new fans, and we'd like to broaden our horizons. The price on a double CD is ridiculous, so already you're turning off fans who might like one or two songs but aren't willing to part with 40 or 50 bucks for a band they're not sure about. I'm not into doing that and neither is John P.. and I don't think John M. or Derek are either. I think the only one who is really for it is Mike... (laughs) Mike would release a 4 CD album if he could.

Y'know, there's nothing really wrong with that -- I really admire Mike for his passion. All he wants is to give fans everything that we have, but at the same time, you also have to remember there is a business side to this , and you have to want to continue to grow. The only way to do that is by bringing more people in and selling more albums.


--------------------------------------

Fall Winter 97/98 Issue # 15

Question: The recording went well?

Portnoy: Amazingly well. The material is great, I'm totally, totally 100 percent satisfied with it.

Question: Kevin Shirley worked out then?

Portnoy: I loved working with him. At first he and I were fighting a lot. I was being very protective over the songs and arrangements, and he wanted to make changes. We ended up getting along great. I loved working with him, he was really cool. Everything sounds amazing, it's the best sounding album we've ever done.


....I feel really good about the record. It's a nice breakthrough for us.


-------------------------------------

Summer 1998 Issue # 16

Question: Do you go on the Internet a lot? The reason I ask is becuase when the album first came out there was all this criticism: people coming out of left field complaining about these "commercial" sounding songs. Do you know where people are coming from? Does that affect you at all? I thought a lot of it was pretty harsh.

Portnoy: Yes, I do go on a lot. I saw the criticisms before the album came out because people heard "You Not Me" first , and I thought that was unfair becuase you can never judge any of our albums by one song. If you heard "Wait for Sleep" off Images and Words or "The Silent Man" off Awake, you know it's not representing the full spectrum of the album by any stretch of the imagination. As far as reviews of the entire album goes, everyone's entitled to their opinion. I think it's a well-balanced album. There are definately songs that are more stright ahead, but we intentionally did that. Some of these songs are more streamlined by choice but there's still "A New millenium," "Trial Of Tears," "Lines In the Sand" and "Hell's Kitchen" to balance it out., so I think like any of our albums there's a balance on Falling Into Infinity.

One of the problems is that we put a lot of our eggs into the Metropolis basket. We put a lot of progressiveness into that one song. So without having a song like that on the album we did lose a bit of balance, but I still think the album has it. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but if they call it a sell-out, I would have to disagree. I would say as a fan, when I hear the new Metallica album or the new Queensryche album, those to me sound like sell-out because the entire album, the entire style of the entire band from start to finish changed. Whereas with us, it's a song here or a song there. That's part of being a progressive band.


...I think it's...the word I keep using is "mature'. I think it's the most mature album we've ever done and I think it's a logical progression for us. I think this is the album we had to make at this point in our career because I think it has the potential to take the next step for our career, which is what we really do need. We don't want to keep playing to the same audience for the rest of our lives -- we'd like to play to that audience as well as other people. We don't want to lose any of the existing audience, but we do want to add to it.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ReaPsTA]

Interesting that LaBrie probably answered the most honestly.

How much more of these archives do you have?  They seem like invaluable material when it comes to the history of the band.

[TL]

I do think in the past we've received a very skewed version of what happened during the recording of FII. Even before MP left the band, some people here had pointed out that the other members, especially JP, seemed very happy with how the whole FII process had gone.

James definitely had a point in that interview too; Double albums definitely weren't cheap to buy back in the mid-late 90s. Some are still surprisingly high priced.

[ytserush]

Interesting that LaBrie probably answered the most honestly.

How much more of these archives do you have?  They seem like invaluable material when it comes to the history of the band.

Maybe one of these days I'll find the time to scan/transcribe everything, but I just subscribed to the fanzines (fan club) and bought music magazines and kept them whenever I could find them.

Before the internet, the fanzines were the best source of information.

[chrisbDTM]

haha lol somebody on MP forum isnt taking this well. thread title 'RudeNess needs to shut it' 

[ResultsMayVary]

haha lol somebody on MP forum isnt taking this well. thread title 'RudeNess needs to shut it' 

He doesn't understand the fact that MP said this while laughing about it. The people over there need to acquire some common sense.

[reo73]

I remember really liking FII when it came out.  It was different from Awake which was different from I&W and to me they were just carrying on a pattern of changing up their sound.  Plus, I didn't feel I needed any longer prog songs on it since ACOS had come out in the intermediate time and i was still trying to wrap my head around that song.  I remember really liking DS's key sounds and i thought the production was top notch.  Sure it had a couple less interesting songs but it also had some complete kick-ass tunes as well.  Unfortunately i was not in the fan club back then or anything else so I had no idea that people didn't like the album until i started to become more aware of the DT community a few years later.

[theseoafs]

Made an account so I could do this:

THE DREAM (theater) POLICE THEY LIVE INSIDE OF MY HEAD

[wammabe]

Made an account so I could do this:

THE DREAM (theater) POLICE THEY LIVE INSIDE OF MY HEAD

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Made an account so I could do this:

THE DREAM (theater) POLICE THEY LIVE INSIDE OF MY HEAD

thank you

[skydivingninja]

well the tendency of the transcript is probably correct.
maybe he didn't say yes/no or mike portnoy police.
The bottom line is that they now felt free somehow to do what they want and that JR really liked this approach.
Also he felt like he could spread his engery and his opion.

well than to me that sounds like JR is a pussy if he didn't had the balls to stand up for his opinion or asking for another approach to write music.
It's not like MP is a great dicatator.....if he really was they wouldn't be able to write a single note together.
that's a real dick move right there JR!

Dude, Mike always admitted to being a control freak, and also believed he had the true pulse of what DT fans wanted. Jordan was told this when if came in the band so from day one that role was established. It's not easy bucking the system until the leader is gone. Derek was his own man and look what happend to him.

fuck!

You know, when someone gets a warning from me about a certain post, it's probably not going to put you in the best standing to quote said post in agreement. 

He didn't.  He added in the part I've bolded.  Just a misquote.  Kinda like Blabbermouth in that it happens and people misinterpret it, but this time it was just an honest mistake. 

Anyways, read the interview, and I don't think JR is coming off as brash or anything.  If anything, he's just confirmed what people have been speculating about ever since Systematic Chaos: that Mike was getting too controlling and, as Rob said in another brilliant word porn post, not willing to try new things.  Clearly both parties are happy with where they are right now (maybe MP not as much, but he seems really excited about Adrenaline Mob and he's got those other two or three side projects coming out soon) and that's the best we can hope for. 

[Madman Shepherd]

Regarding OX's question, I think he definitely would have loved for DT to be more different. The comments that he made in reference to JL's vocals when JL's spot in the band was in jeopardy (late 2002-2003) show that he tired of James' vocals, but acknowledged that they are part of DT's sound.

I reread that part of Lifting Shadows after the whole MP facebook "liking" scandal and I gotta say, in retrospect he doesn't sound all that sincere by saying the whole "love him or hate him JLB is the voice of DT".  Especially when you reread the quotes of JP, JR, and their manager (forgot his name).  They all pretty much said they didn't want to give JLB an ultimatum and wanted to be careful with it.  JP especially just sorta said JLB didn't seem into it anymore and they wanted to talk to him but I don't think a single one of them had any intention of booting James except for MP. 

[ReaPsTA]

I reread that part of Lifting Shadows after the whole MP facebook "liking" scandal and I gotta say, in retrospect he doesn't sound all that sincere by saying the whole "love him or hate him JLB is the voice of DT".  Especially when you reread the quotes of JP, JR, and their manager (forgot his name).  They all pretty much said they didn't want to give JLB an ultimatum and wanted to be careful with it.  JP especially just sorta said JLB didn't seem into it anymore and they wanted to talk to him but I don't think a single one of them had any intention of booting James except for MP. 

Mmmmmmmmmm.

[scorpa65]

Is it any worse than the things Mike has said about KM in the past?   Not saying that justifies it...

This makes me wonder if MP will retaliate.  It's all so strange 

MP has bash on you as the fan in a video interview. Stating that you all great fans but also very critical as well. Hes bashed KM and hes bashed in his press release, about someone in the band. MP started the mud flinging. They may have looked at MP's statements and went WOW! We thought you were a friend. While i love MP and his playing, he has a habit to wear his emotions on his sleeve, and say things he should keep to himself. Like someone said JR he spoke in english then it was translated which in that process along things got messed up im sure, then translated back to english. Double whammy. On JR's Vyou channel he addressed MP from a fan asking if he still maintained a friendship with MP. It was very warm towards MP and he called MP his friend and he had many years of playing and making music together and he would never forget it. Its pretty cool he answered a question i posted to him on how long of a show we will get and if he looks forward to playing seattle. Heres a link to that.   

https://www.facebook.com/jordanrudessofficial?sk=app_357696300574

[TL]

With the whole FII thing, I'm definitely glad that I was able to hear it for the first time without any preconceptions. I was only introduced to the band in 2004, and still wasn't really familiar with the whole album chronology when I heard FII, so it didn't have the same expectations to live up to.