Jordan Rudess Interview by Rock Your Life 22 August 2011

Started by ReaPsTA, August 24, 2011, 01:26:29 PM

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ReaPsTA

Quote from: wammabe on August 24, 2011, 06:27:44 PM
Am I the only one here that feels like we've seen these interview over and over again with different band members? -.-

I know what you mean, but people still manage to be surprised when DT talks about their experience with MP in the band.  So interviewers will continue to ask these questions.

And even when people do eventually figure out MP was super controlling and the band members didn't appreciate it, it will be talked about anyway.  It's impossible for the media to talk about Michael Vick without mentioning he was involved with dog fighting, even though it happened years ago.

dongringo

I liked the interview. Nice to get JR's perspective.

Thanks Nikatapi for the translation.  :metal

Perpetual Change

Quote from: ReaPsTA on August 24, 2011, 06:53:56 PM
Quote from: wammabe on August 24, 2011, 06:27:44 PM
Am I the only one here that feels like we've seen these interview over and over again with different band members? -.-

I know what you mean, but people still manage to be surprised when DT talks about their experience with MP in the band.  So interviewers will continue to ask these questions.

And even when people do eventually figure out MP was super controlling and the band members didn't appreciate it, it will be talked about anyway.  It's impossible for the media to talk about Michael Vick without mentioning he was involved with dog fighting, even though it happened years ago.

...And because it's still a big deal, too. The thing is, despite a really official article for Prog Rock magazine and multiple statements on both sides, there's still a lot of speculation to be had because the whole thing's been shrouded in this awkward, tense silence by both sides for the most part, and the tension only crops up occasionally in interviews or MP's online activity.

KevShmev

Quote from: wammabe on August 24, 2011, 06:27:44 PM
Am I the only one here that feels like we've seen these interview over and over again with different band members? -.-

Maybe, but not everyone reads every interview with every member of the band.  If this is the first interview a casual internet reader is reading regarding this, it will be news to them.

ElliottTamer

Quote from: Adami on August 24, 2011, 04:34:13 PM
Quote from: ReaperKK on August 24, 2011, 04:31:38 PM
Interesting interview, I think there was too much attention on the MP tho, I'd like to hear more about the new album.

I agree they need to stop bringing up MP, but what are they supposed to ask about the new album?

"So how's the new album?"
"It's really good"

They won't go into a whole lot of detail. They have already stated multiple times how it was written, that it was written very freely and yaddah yaddah yaddah. Not sure what else they can really say about it without going into details that they clearly don't want to until it's released.

There's quite a lot they can talk about. They can ask if the next legs of the tour will have rotating set-lists already, why he doesn't write lyrics to the songs, whether or not he has any side-projects going on right now (such as releasing a CD with his orchestral composition "Explorations for Keyboard and Orchestra"), what album he's most excited for (other than ADToE) or even what his favourite track in the new album is...

Quote from: SystematicThought on August 24, 2011, 05:07:31 PM
What's kind of odd is how MP has been saying none of the guys will respond to him when he calls or anything like that. He gets their lawyers. In this interview though, JR basically says that he's reached out to Mike, but MP never responds.
Hmm, I read that he got their lawyers when he wanted to re-join the band, but never heard of his trying to contact them and getting their lawyers... I mean, how would that even work? He writes them an e-mail and the lawyer answers?


Thanks nikapati, for the great translation!
Btw, why is there so much stuff coming out in Greek?

ytserush

Quote from: Dream Team on August 24, 2011, 06:45:38 PM
This discussion has been had SO many times, but anyway I'll chime in again and say that I never needed MP to tell me that YNM, HY, BMS, JLMB, and AL were far below the standards set on DT's first 3 albums. It's an obvious large drop in quality to my ears.

I was going to continue to go off the rails with this but I think Hollow Years is one of the best songs the band has ever written from the day it was released. I've always thought it should have been a huge radio hit.  I'm even in the minority that likes You Not Me (And I say that openly hating on the work of Desmond Child -- if the band had gone that root, they would have been done before the turn of the 21st century)

I'll admit that I wasn't too fond of Burning My Soul when it came out but even that doesn't bother me that much (a lot of the baggage that came with the release of Falling Into Infinity (and there was a lot) just doesn't make any difference to me anymore,

Still not all that fond of Just Let Me Breathe but it does explain that period rather well despite not really holding up now. Anna Lee is Anna Lee and it wouldn't bother me at all if I never heard it again.





Back on topic again:


Thanks for that awesome translation!



I think we'll still be hearing coments about the split until the tour cycle for the album is done. After that, it will be pretty much old news unless something relevant to the situation develops.

KevShmev

I've always liked Hollow Years, too.  It's not a favorite, but it is a highly enjoyable tune.  And I am talking the vastly-superior FII version, not the inferior live version on Budokan.

Perpetual Change

Yeah, count me in with the group that considered FII a huge drop in quality. Regardless of MP's opinion on it, it had a couple great songs, a couple really bad ones, and mostly a lot of decent ones. Which puts it pretty much on par with the ToT-BC&SL run.

wolven74

Quote from: John94 on August 24, 2011, 02:22:25 PM
I really really dislike Blabbermouth.

I agree. Blabbermouth is a waste of time. First of all, 9 times out of 10 when I see an interview or a video posted on BM it's something I've already seen elsewhere. Second of all, what they report is more often than not rumor, which they report as fact, then have to backtrack and apologize for. It's stupid to believe what BM says half the time.

That being said, I believe that the essence of what JR supposedly said is true. I don't think he would call MP the "dream theater police", but I do believe he feels more comfortable on this album. It shows in his playing. That may or may not have been MPs controlling nature at work. We'll never really know.


blackngold29

This article is by the same author from two days ago, entitled The Debunking of a Legend. Dude isn't exactly thrilled with MP. I agree with the comments that JR didn't seem thrilled with going back to MP questions. This is possibly why?

https://www.rockyourlife.gr/index.asp?action=cmsshow&cid=35&id=631&mid=34,35

Part via Google Translate: Thus we arrive at a concert of Dream Theater in Athens with me now to follow the usual path to the sidelines. First meet with Jordan Rudess. EGKARDIOS greeting, short and to the Jordan to lead me to a Mike Portnoy and he knew my friendly relationship with him. At a distance of 5 meters, Mike sees us and all you do is turn his back and retired to his room. May seem funny, ridiculous or not I know anything but I came to put out crying. The Jordan dumbfounded initially tried to justify the next day but could not resist and he confessed the real situation in the band. "Mike is tired and turns us all." 'Behaves like a rock star and perhaps has had enough success. " "I apologize on behalf of why I find it unacceptable what he did." This was the last time I tried to see Mike Portnoy closely. This threw Mike the throne of my pyramid, but there was a reason to change respect for Dream Theater. I still stand by them in debates, interviews, reviews and at any opportunity pass by my hand. Besides the music I do not want to put conditions and specific characteristics of personality of each artist (ask Frank to tell you about the interview we did with Portnoy lying on a cot backstage at their concert at Faliro). The result is of interest.

ReaPsTA

Quote from: wolven74 on August 24, 2011, 08:40:21 PM
I don't think he would call MP the "dream theater police"


He used those exact words in his Vokle chat.  I heard it with my own ears.

marztacy

Quote from: ReaPsTA on August 24, 2011, 05:49:18 PM
This is the second Greek interviewer who asked really probing questions.  Is this a cultural thing?  I don't mind it, I think it makes the interviewer more interesting, just curious as to why.

I must say that greeks do tend to be brutally honest. We do have a way of speaking our minds that may come across as abrupt, rude or probing but that is just how many of us are programmed  ;D.

Setlist Scotty

First off, thanx for the more accurate translation nikatapi!! Much appreciated!

I agree that the interview seemed to be MP heavy, but I didn't really mind that. The interviewer asked a lot of questions the fans want answers to. And honestly, while JR's words may have come across a bit rough, I honestly don't think they were intended that way. Part of it probably comes from the re-re-translation of the interview, combined with the fact that we weren't there to hear the tone that JR said everything in. The fact that JR's always has been a class act in the past gives me reason to give him the benefit of the doubt. And if JR *was* intending to be harsh/angry/hating on MP, then he wouldn't have made the other comments that (weren't harsh/angry that) he did about MP.



Quote from: The Dark Master on August 24, 2011, 05:55:10 PM
When the album came out, I recall most of the Dream Theater fans were eccstatic about it.  Was it I&W or Awake?   No, but still a damn good album, and the simple fact that Portnoy would include many songs from it in their setlists on a regular basis proves that he recognizes much of the record as truly classic DT material.

Beg to differ there chief. I recall things quite differently. Yes, the fans overally were pretty ecstatic when the songs were played at the Fix for 96 shows, but when the album was released 9 months later, there was a lot of disappointment with the final album. Had the songs been released in their original/intended form, I'm sure that the album would have been welcomed by DT fans instead of looked down upon.

Regarding MP's feelings on the album, there's no doubt that he did recognize much of the album as classic DT material - however, he recognized the *original* versions of the songs, not the final versions that ended up on the album. That's why those songs (especially BMS and LitS, and with the exception of HY) were performed more closely to their original form on *every* tour after Touring Into Infinity. And if MP would've been in the band for this album/tour, chances are we would have finally seen You or Me live (*not* You Not Me) as he had commented he wanted that song to be on the master setlist for the next tour.
Quote from: BlobVanDam on November 13, 2015, 07:37:14 PMAs a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.
Quote from: TAC on July 10, 2024, 08:26:41 AMPOW is awesome! :P

antigoon

Quote from: Setlist Scotty on August 24, 2011, 09:23:09 PM
And if MP would've been in the band for this album/tour, chances are we would have finally seen You or Me live (*not* You Not Me) as he had commented he wanted that song to be on the master setlist for the next tour.

Good thing he left then :lol

KevShmev

Okay, but most of the FII versions are better than the demos, and You or Me is just as bad as You Not Me.

And remember that had the band gotten their way on FII, we never would have gotten Hell's Kitchen, which is all kinds of awesome.  It is a travesty that that song has never been performed in full since Rudess joined the band, but hopefully the band will now recognize its greatness and play it live again.  Having good bits of that song wasted in an otherwise meh song like Burning My Soul would have been a damn shame.

ResultsMayVary

Quote from: KevShmev on August 24, 2011, 09:37:43 PM
Okay, but most of the FII versions are better than the demos, and You or Me is just as bad as You Not Me.

And remember that had the band gotten their way on FII, we never would have gotten Hell's Kitchen, which is all kinds of awesome.  It is a travesty that that song has never been performed in full since Rudess joined the band, but hopefully the band will now recognize its greatness and play it live again.

This is one of my true hopes. I want Hell's Kitchen, dammit.

It would have been sweet to have Raise The Knife make it on the final FII album somehow. It still pisses me off that it didn't get a proper recording (besides the Score version, which is phenomenal).

KevShmev

My honest opinion is that Raise the Knife wouldn't be as heralded as it is had it actually made FII.  I mean, it would have clearly been the least best of the three 10-15 minute songs, but because it didn't get heard till a bit later, and then was eventually played years later, it kind of took on this unheard gem status, and I think it tends to get a bit overrated (ouch, there's that nasty word!) as a result, IMO.

Oh, and it is worth repeating once again that Scenes from a Memory wouldn't exist as is had Falling into Infinity ended up like it did.  Chew on that one for a while, everyone. ;) :P

ReaPsTA

Quote from: KevShmev on August 24, 2011, 09:44:20 PM
My honest opinion is that Raise the Knife wouldn't be as heralded as it is had it actually made FII.  I mean, it would have clearly been the least best of the three 10-15 minute songs, but because it didn't get heard till a bit later, and then was eventually played years later, it kind of took on this unheard gem status, and I think it tends to get a bit overrated (ouch, there's that nasty word!) as a result, IMO.

Don't agree.  I consider it a top 10 DT song.  Although I'd say that the Score version biases me a lot.  The CTC version's still really good but doesn't have the same energy.

Gorille85

Interesting to see that MP was the guy behind the "let's do like Muse on this riff!!". I'm glad this method of composing us no longer there, really.

ResultsMayVary

Quote from: KevShmev on August 24, 2011, 09:44:20 PM
My honest opinion is that Raise the Knife wouldn't be as heralded as it is had it actually made FII.  I mean, it would have clearly been the least best of the three 10-15 minute songs, but because it didn't get heard till a bit later, and then was eventually played years later, it kind of took on this unheard gem status, and I think it tends to get a bit overrated (ouch, there's that nasty word!) as a result, IMO.

Oh, and it is worth repeating once again that Scenes from a Memory wouldn't exist as is had Falling into Infinity ended up like it did.  Chew on that one for a while, everyone. ;) :P
Wouldn't it have ended up the same way? From what I understand the only version of Metropolis '96 was the live rehearsal version (which was instrumental and no where near 'complete' status), whereas the rest of the demos for all the FII-era tracks were all done and completely demoed out?

The album could have still been the same if FII became a double album.

Perpetual Change

Quote from: KevShmev on August 24, 2011, 09:44:20 PM
My honest opinion is that Raise the Knife wouldn't be as heralded as it is had it actually made FII.  I mean, it would have clearly been the least best of the three 10-15 minute songs, but because it didn't get heard till a bit later, and then was eventually played years later, it kind of took on this unheard gem status, and I think it tends to get a bit overrated (ouch, there's that nasty word!) as a result, IMO.


Agreed 100 percent. Also, completely agree with this:

Quote from: antigoon on August 24, 2011, 09:29:10 PM
Quote from: Setlist Scotty on August 24, 2011, 09:23:09 PM
And if MP would've been in the band for this album/tour, chances are we would have finally seen You or Me live (*not* You Not Me) as he had commented he wanted that song to be on the master setlist for the next tour.

Good thing he left then :lol


tri.ad

That was mostly an interesting interview, although I didn't really like the interviewer keeping the focus on questions about MP, but it's OK. Most of JR answers are quite interesting anyway.

Öxölklöfför

Quote from: tgstk2 on August 24, 2011, 02:48:27 PM
...ive been in bands for 20 years..so spare me your words of "wisdom")....

So, nothing we say in this topic will ever be more "correct" than your words? Why do you even use a discussion forum when you have nothing to discuss? Wrong attitude.

The Dark Master

#93
Quote from: Setlist Scotty on August 24, 2011, 09:23:09 PM

Quote from: The Dark Master on August 24, 2011, 05:55:10 PM
When the album came out, I recall most of the Dream Theater fans were eccstatic about it.  Was it I&W or Awake?   No, but still a damn good album, and the simple fact that Portnoy would include many songs from it in their setlists on a regular basis proves that he recognizes much of the record as truly classic DT material.

Beg to differ there chief. I recall things quite differently. Yes, the fans overally were pretty ecstatic when the songs were played at the Fix for 96 shows, but when the album was released 9 months later, there was a lot of disappointment with the final album. Had the songs been released in their original/intended form, I'm sure that the album would have been welcomed by DT fans instead of looked down upon.

Regarding MP's feelings on the album, there's no doubt that he did recognize much of the album as classic DT material - however, he recognized the *original* versions of the songs, not the final versions that ended up on the album. That's why those songs (especially BMS and LitS, and with the exception of HY) were performed more closely to their original form on *every* tour after Touring Into Infinity. And if MP would've been in the band for this album/tour, chances are we would have finally seen You or Me live (*not* You Not Me) as he had commented he wanted that song to be on the master setlist for the next tour.

Well then we are going to have to agree to disagree, because up until the Train of Thought tour (which was around the time MP started Ytsejam and started talking about releasing the "real" version of FII in demo form (most notably in the commentary on 5YIALT DVD, which was recorded shortly before the show for the Budokan DVD), FII was considered to be a decent, if perhaps stylistically uneven, Dream Theater record. As I stated, many people I knew who were into Dream Theater and who had been fans for longer then I thought it was a pretty good record.  Maybe not I&W or Awake good, but still good in it's own right, because at the time they simply took the record for what it was.  Perhaps people who saw the Fix for '96 shows had a totally different view because they had heard the earlier versions of those songs, but from what I recall, the album was certainly not reviled back in 1997-98 the same way it was circa 2003-04 when it started to become public that the album was originally intended to be very different.  Once MP started disowning the album as an illegitimate Dream Theater record, all of a sudden it became fashionable to bash it.  What had once been a decent, though certainly not the best, Dream Theater album became, as someone else here put it, the red-headed stepchild of the DT discography.

Quote from: ResultsMayVary on August 24, 2011, 10:44:48 PM
Quote from: KevShmev on August 24, 2011, 09:44:20 PM
My honest opinion is that Raise the Knife wouldn't be as heralded as it is had it actually made FII.  I mean, it would have clearly been the least best of the three 10-15 minute songs, but because it didn't get heard till a bit later, and then was eventually played years later, it kind of took on this unheard gem status, and I think it tends to get a bit overrated (ouch, there's that nasty word!) as a result, IMO.

Oh, and it is worth repeating once again that Scenes from a Memory wouldn't exist as is had Falling into Infinity ended up like it did.  Chew on that one for a while, everyone. ;) :P
Wouldn't it have ended up the same way? From what I understand the only version of Metropolis '96 was the live rehearsal version (which was instrumental and no where near 'complete' status), whereas the rest of the demos for all the FII-era tracks were all done and completely demoed out?

The album could have still been the same if FII became a double album.

I'm not so certain that Metropolis II would have even ended up on the double disc FII.  The fact that the other 15 songs all existed in a finalized form (until Shirley started dissecting and re-arranging them) and yet Met II was still just a very rough instrumental only demo, despite being the second song they had started writing during the FII sessions (I know Derek confirms this on his website, and I believe it is also mentioned in the liner notes for the FII demos) speaks volumes about the band's uncertainty of the quality of the song in it's then current state.  John Petrucci even goes so far as to call it "the worst attempt at an epic song" in Lifting Shadows, and even Portnoy was very reluctant to release it via YtseJam because he felt that it was something that the fans should never hear.  They just left that song in an unfinished state while writing another whole two hours worth of complete, album-worthy songs.  Even if the original intent had been to place the song on FII, at the time they were ready to commence recording of the album, the song was still very far off from being finished.  Considering that they had already spent almost two years writing material for FII, I doubt they would have waited much longer to make the record just to finish a 21 minute song that no one in the band was very fond of at the time, even if they were given the greenlight for a double album.

Kyo


ReaPsTA

Quote from: The Dark Master on August 24, 2011, 11:47:58 PM
I'm not so certain that Metropolis II would have even ended up on the double disc FII.  The fact that the other 15 songs all existed in a finalized form (until Shirley started dissecting and re-arranging them) and yet Met II was still just a very rough instrumental only demo, despite being the second song they had started writing during the FII sessions (I know Derek confirms this on his website, and I believe it is also mentioned in the liner notes for the FII demos) speaks volumes about the band's uncertainty of the quality of the song in it's then current state.  John Petrucci even goes so far as to call it "the worst attempt at an epic song" in Lifting Shadows, and even Portnoy was very reluctant to release it via YtseJam because he felt that it was something that the fans should never hear.  They just left that song in an unfinished state while writing another whole two hours worth of complete, album-worthy songs.  Even if the original intent had been to place the song on FII, at the time they were ready to commence recording of the album, the song was still very far off from being finished.  Considering that they had already spent almost two years writing material for FII, I doubt they would have waited much longer to make the record just to finish a 21 minute song that no one in the band was very fond of at the time, even if they were given the greenlight for a double album.

Now that's fascinating.

Metropolis II is a weird song to me.  The first half of it rocks pretty hard, but the instrumental section is so confusing.  It feels like a completely different song that was spliced in.  Then the One Last Time section comes in, and it has the lost JP intro solo, which is one of the coolest things he ever did.  The solo sorta made it into the OLT reprise in Finally Free, but it's not the same.

nikatapi

It should be noted that the interviewer has known MP and JR for many years, and he was one of the people who used to run the Greek DT fanclub. So if some questions sound rude or annoying given that he insists on asking about MP, you should consider that he had a friendly relationship with both of those guys, and with Jordan in particular, as he says on another article about MP.

Personally i am more interested in the new album and how the dynamics of the band have changed, so i understand and agree to a degree that the whole MP leaving the band thing should be left behind at this point.

hefdaddy42

Quote from: The Dark Master on August 24, 2011, 11:47:58 PM
Quote from: Setlist Scotty on August 24, 2011, 09:23:09 PM

Quote from: The Dark Master on August 24, 2011, 05:55:10 PM
When the album came out, I recall most of the Dream Theater fans were eccstatic about it.  Was it I&W or Awake?   No, but still a damn good album, and the simple fact that Portnoy would include many songs from it in their setlists on a regular basis proves that he recognizes much of the record as truly classic DT material.

Beg to differ there chief. I recall things quite differently. Yes, the fans overally were pretty ecstatic when the songs were played at the Fix for 96 shows, but when the album was released 9 months later, there was a lot of disappointment with the final album. Had the songs been released in their original/intended form, I'm sure that the album would have been welcomed by DT fans instead of looked down upon.

Regarding MP's feelings on the album, there's no doubt that he did recognize much of the album as classic DT material - however, he recognized the *original* versions of the songs, not the final versions that ended up on the album. That's why those songs (especially BMS and LitS, and with the exception of HY) were performed more closely to their original form on *every* tour after Touring Into Infinity. And if MP would've been in the band for this album/tour, chances are we would have finally seen You or Me live (*not* You Not Me) as he had commented he wanted that song to be on the master setlist for the next tour.

Well then we are going to have to agree to disagree, because up until the Train of Thought tour (which was around the time MP started Ytsejam and started talking about releasing the "real" version of FII in demo form (most notably in the commentary on 5YIALT DVD, which was recorded shortly before the show for the Budokan DVD), FII was considered to be a decent, if perhaps stylistically uneven, Dream Theater record. As I stated, many people I knew who were into Dream Theater and who had been fans for longer then I thought it was a pretty good record.  Maybe not I&W or Awake good, but still good in it's own right, because at the time they simply took the record for what it was.  Perhaps people who saw the Fix for '96 shows had a totally different view because they had heard the earlier versions of those songs, but from what I recall, the album was certainly not reviled back in 1997-98 the same way it was circa 2003-04 when it started to become public that the album was originally intended to be very different.  Once MP started disowning the album as an illegitimate Dream Theater record, all of a sudden it became fashionable to bash it.  What had once been a decent, though certainly not the best, Dream Theater album became, as someone else here put it, the red-headed stepchild of the DT discography.
Yes, it was reviled by longtime DT fans when it came out.  Although it had a couple of awesome songs on it, it was a vast departure from I&W and Awake (and even WDADU).  It left an awful taste in my mouth, as well as many, many others.

There is a reason that SFAM was referred to as a "make-or-break" album for DT.  And that reason is FII.
Quote from: BlobVanDam on December 11, 2014, 08:19:46 PMHef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Zukuduku

Quote from: bosk1 on August 24, 2011, 02:11:27 PM
There is nothing blameworthy about either album.  Period.
Yes, thanks for the correction. Criticism was the word that I was looking for. But anyway, after a good night's sleep, I realized that I severly overreacted last night after reading the interview. We have no proof that MP was more controlling during the writing sessions of SC and BC&SL than before. It was just news for me that MP was also involved in arranging. Previously I had thought of him more as a producer.

So as others have already noted, JR is only stating the obvious. Instead of having a very controlling producer / arranger, they have now the power and freedom to make their own decisions. So at first, while it is liberating, it of course demands more responsibility. So far, based on the snippets, everything seemed to go very well. We will hear the result in a couple of weeks!

Jirpo


mikedt

In regards to Falling into Infinity:

I find it quite interesting that MP din't like someone else controlling the bands creative process (record label).
I guess he never realized that he was doing the same thing to his bandmates for all these years.

chrisgazpacho

Quote from: Setlist Scotty on August 24, 2011, 09:23:09 PM

Beg to differ there chief. I recall things quite differently. Yes, the fans overally were pretty ecstatic when the songs were played at the Fix for 96 shows, but when the album was released 9 months later, there was a lot of disappointment with the final album.

Same here Scotty.  I've been listening to DT since WDADU, when FII came out it was a HUGE disappointment in the prog circles that I followed.  Some of the prog boards at that time referred to it as Falling Into Obscurity.  Then add to that a keyboard player wearing feather boa's with lava lamps on stage, they took a HUGE hit in that time period. Can't really see how MP's public disappointment with how the record turned out has tainted the record.  He's calling it for what it is, a sliced and diced DT record that doesn't sound like them and wasn't the vision they had when they wrote it.   Luckily they got control of the band back and SFAM saved the band. 



C

Setlist Scotty

Quote from: The Dark Master on August 24, 2011, 11:47:58 PM
Well then we are going to have to agree to disagree, because up until the Train of Thought tour (which was around the time MP started Ytsejam and started talking about releasing the "real" version of FII in demo form (most notably in the commentary on 5YIALT DVD, which was recorded shortly before the show for the Budokan DVD), FII was considered to be a decent, if perhaps stylistically uneven, Dream Theater record. As I stated, many people I knew who were into Dream Theater and who had been fans for longer then I thought it was a pretty good record.  Maybe not I&W or Awake good, but still good in it's own right, because at the time they simply took the record for what it was.  Perhaps people who saw the Fix for '96 shows had a totally different view because they had heard the earlier versions of those songs, but from what I recall, the album was certainly not reviled back in 1997-98 the same way it was circa 2003-04 when it started to become public that the album was originally intended to be very different.  Once MP started disowning the album as an illegitimate Dream Theater record, all of a sudden it became fashionable to bash it.  What had once been a decent, though certainly not the best, Dream Theater album became, as someone else here put it, the red-headed stepchild of the DT discography.

Not sure who you knew that was a DT fan back then, but I was on the Ytsejam mailing list as were many old school fans (which was quite the DT fan community back then). Between the YML and being in the DT fan club back then, we were more than well aware of how the songs were developing over that long period of time (1995-1997). Reports of these tracks were mentioned in several issues of the Images and Words fanzine which were discussed on the Ytsejam mailing list, so we knew what songs were written, their basic track length, etc. And we were well aware of the changes that were made once we heard the final album (those of us who did *not* attend the Ff96 shows still got to hear the songs on bootleg recordings). Additionally, there have been copies of the FII demos that have been in trading circles long before there ever was a Ytsejam Records.

So no, the album wasn't simply reviled after MP started to make statements in 2003-2004 - this goes back to the time when the album first came out, as several others have verified in this thread.
Quote from: BlobVanDam on November 13, 2015, 07:37:14 PMAs a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.
Quote from: TAC on July 10, 2024, 08:26:41 AMPOW is awesome! :P

ZirconBlue

Quote from: KevShmev on August 24, 2011, 09:37:43 PM
Okay, but most of the FII versions are better than the demos, and You or Me is just as bad as You Not Me.

And remember that had the band gotten their way on FII, we never would have gotten Hell's Kitchen, which is all kinds of awesome.  It is a travesty that that song has never been performed in full since Rudess joined the band, but hopefully the band will now recognize its greatness and play it live again.  Having good bits of that song wasted in an otherwise meh song like Burning My Soul would have been a damn shame.

I couldn't disagree more.  You Or Me is awesome, and most of the songs are better in their Demo form, IMO. 

robwebster

#104
One hell of a Mike-heavy interview. Covers a lot of ground we've seen trodden before, but it's definitely quite elucidating in the sense that it's adding form to some fairly foggy glimpses. Increasingly, my evaluation of Mike is simply that he doesn't know his own limits.

Which, in many ways, is fantastic. Over 25 years he led (or helped lead) a niche band in an unpopular genre to critical and commercial success, inventing (or at least codifying) a brand new subgenre in the process - that's fucking incredible. How many of us have bands? Quite a few. How many of will us get even 1% of the way to reaching Dream Theater's level of success? Heck, how many will get 1% of the way to reaching Adrenaline Mob's level of success? Very few. Absolutely phenomenal man, and completely ferocious. What a guy!

But I don't think he knows where his weaknesses are. This is going to sound like a very odd sentiment from someone who completely adores Octavarium and Systematic Chaos, but I think one of those weaknesses - maybe the most significant - is that he's not a very good producer. Mediocre, even. Which is fine! Nobody's superb at everything, but I think he's aiming for it regardless. Specifically, he seems to manufacture consent, rather than garner it - hence "Dream Theater police," etc. - and his creative decisions are a little iffy. He's overseen some lovely music, but he's got a very formulaic attitude to structure, routine, and even the songwriting process. Yet, he then grows fidgety and wonders why the band might have become a little "stale," in his own words. Thing is, he's very steadfast and reluctant to try out new things (see also: his insistence on the guitar/keyboard tradeoff in one of the BCSL behind the scenes videos, his refusal to entertain John Myung's ideas regarding jamming, his refusal to demo tracks, his very definite structure to songwriting sessions, his lack of willingness to work with an outside producer, evidencewise) which are not qualities that a good producer should really have.

Like I say, his single-minded confidence is his greatest strength. He is an absolute tour-de-force as an ambassador, as an organiser, in writing setlists, in his drumming, in offering as many bonuses to the fans as physically possible, in administration... He's ferocious, tenacious, and an absolute beast of an ally to have. When he knows his ground, he is on fire - no bones about it. For 25 years, he's given the fans as much as he possibly can, stuck up for himself whenever possible, defended the band through thick and thin - he's an absolute champion, and we've been lucky to have him overseeing so much of Dream Theater's activity.

On the other hand, I think he's also got his hands on some responsibilities that he is not the best person for. He's not prepared to be wrong, and so it seems a little like he might've ended up making certain decisions whether the others felt they were correct or not - which we're currently seeing the equal-and-opposite-reaction to. Since his departure, the band are coming forward a lot more, and seem like more of a unit. They're talking amongst themselves, rather than referring to a self-appointed authority, and that's really healthy. Jordan Rudess was described as a hired gun by Paul Northfield, and now he's part of the core songwriting team. John Myung is getting a lot more involved again, too, and James was allowed to choose his own vocal producer. It's a team effort, now, and it's a much less formulaic effort, and I think that is entirely because of the freedom they've been afforded.

Mike Portnoy is a fantastic musician, ambassador, entrepreneur, businessman, and an all-round top bloke - I think he's an absolutely cracking guy and he's getting a lot more crap thrown at him than he deserves - but I don't think it's unfair to say that his personality was not well-suited to the role of producer, no matter how much he wanted to wear the hat. In short, he wasn't grand at getting the best out of the music nor out of his team, which I think are the bare minimum you want from a producer. He wasn't bad. Far from it. They made some cracking music and the band weren't discontent, but look how happy they are now!

So, yes. He doesn't know his weaknesses. Strength and a flaw wrapped up into one neat sentence. Or as neat as I'm going to muster, given that I'm pigheadedly trying to psychoanalyse the personality of a man I have never met.