Rotating set lists (updated spoilers)

[KevShmev]

Let's put this to rest right away before it gets out of hand: as the tour this year progresses, if the set lists stay the same, or almost the same, it is inevitable that some will offer up the criticism that a Mike Portnoy-less Dream Theater isn't rotating the set lists like Portnoy did when he was in the band and wrote the set lists, but it is important to remember that this is Mike Mangini's first tour with the band. 

On Derek Sherinian's first full tour with the band, the Awake tour in the fall/winter of '94/'95, the set list stayed pretty much the same the whole way through (I think it was the same every night, but there might have been a change or two a few times).

On Jordan Rudess' first full tour with the band, the Metropolis: 2000 tour in the spring of '00, the set list was exactly the same for every single show. 

So, let's stay calm if the band sticks to a specific static set list for a while this year.  Remember that Mangini is new to the band, so all of the band's songs are firmly entrenched in his head yet.  Just give it time.  Thank you for reading.

[yorost]

I approve of this message.

[WildeSilas]

Also we should remember that DT is one of the very few bands out there who even considers doing such a thing as rotating a setlist for a tour. Most groups will throw in a cover here and there, but even the most improvisational groups like the Dead or Bruce Hornsby, Phish, etc. stick to at least a core setlist per leg of a tour. The fact that MP even did that to begin with would seem insane to even a newer band with a smaller catalogue. Considering how long and complex some of the DT tunes are, I wouldn't blame them for sticking with the same setlist for the entire tour. Obviously, rotating setlists are one of those DT "icing on the cake" things, but you're right - MP only started doing that once the lineup was solid and everyone was intimately familiar with all the material.

[TAC]

Does anyone think the new album may be played in its entirety on the upcoming legs of the tour?

[chrisbDTM]

I approve of this message.

+1

[yorost]

Does anyone think the new album may be played in its entirety on the upcoming legs of the tour?

You mean in a straight shot or just all of the songs?  Have they ever done that for anything other than Scenes?

[m0hawk]

^ Pretty sure Octavarium was played all the way through in the early part of its tour.

[pogoowner]

Is it really such a big deal to have rotating set lists anyway? Most of us really don't have the opportunity to go to more than one show on a tour.

[Stonestef]

They did it with BCSL,at least.I'm not counting "The Best Of Times" because MP had mentioned that it would be hard for him so noone expected to hear it.I don't know about the previous albums,I'll check.
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/dream-theater/2010/summer-sonic-chiba-japan-23d5b0a3.html

[chrisbDTM]

They did it with BCSL,at least.I'm not counting "The Best Of Times" because MP had mentioned that it would be hard for him so noone expected to hear it.I don't know about the previous albums,I'll check.
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/dream-theater/2010/summer-sonic-chiba-japan-23d5b0a3.html

shattered fortress?


they are talking about the whole album in order live

[Banny]

Who would want to see this setlist change? It's golden.
/snob-remark.

I also approve of this message! Plus I seem to recall either JP or Mangini saying somewhere along the way that there was a lot of drum matieral to be learned as just 1 set's worth of material wasn't enough to rotate sets. Of course, maybe this will come as the ADTOE tour proceeds.


...of course, I don't have a link to any of the above said comments, so I guess this post may be a waste of time.

[Stonestef]

I didn't even notice!It's not very strange though,it proves that I never counted "The Shattered Fortress" as a song of its own.

[KevShmev]

Is it really such a big deal to have rotating set lists anyway? Most of us really don't have the opportunity to go to more than one show on a tour.

I think it can be more exciting for online fans who follow a tour by checking out every set list and can look at the difference in each one, but it can be disappointing if the band pulls out a few obscure gems for a tour and none of them get played at the one show you get to see.  I remember them bringing A Change of Seasons back on the Train of Thought tour (first time they played it since Rudess joined the band), but it wasn't played at every show.  That have to have been disappointing to fans in the cities where it wasn't played.

[IdoSC]

1. Mike's setlists during 2007-2010 didn't rotate much either way (in each tour individually, not as a whole).
2. This setlist kicks any-setlist-DT-have-played-from-2007-to-2010's ass either way
3. I know it's staying this way just to make it easier on Mangini, so I'm good with that. I'd rather have awesome songs without rotation than lots of mediocre songs with rotation.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Is it really such a big deal to have rotating set lists anyway? Most of us really don't have the opportunity to go to more than one show on a tour.

I also agree with Kev on his OP.  But I wanted to address this post.  The biggest plus of the rotating set list for me was that they were tailored to each city.  MP would look back at whats been played on previous tours in a particular town, and try to give them something new.  So it's not just a case of multiple shows in one city. 

[TAC]

Does anyone think the new album may be played in its entirety on the upcoming legs of the tour?

You mean in a straight shot or just all of the songs?  Have they ever done that for anything other than Scenes?

Yeah, I was thinking of a straight shot. They haven't done it since Scenes though they did do it with 8V a couple/few times.

i was just thinking how they keep going on about how proud they are of this record, similar to the way Maiden was talking about AMOLAD.

[chrisbDTM]

we were spoiled. most bands play the same thing every night. once mangini is in the band a while, the rotation may come back

[perfectchaos180]

Yeah I agree, no big deal if they don't rotate the setlist at first, once MM gets more comfortable I'm sure they will start doing it.

And its never been the rotating setlists thing for me that has mattered because I only go to one show a tour, its the rotating it so that they play different songs in the same city every time... thats what is awesome. I've been to 3 DT shows now, and the only repeat I have had was ITNOG (and really one of those times was just Schmedley, and who doesn't want ITNOG twice?). That's awesome of them, especially since I was such a late fan to the ballgame haha.

And really I don't see why other bands don't do it... even DT only has a handful of songs that they change here or there, and it probably only took MP around 10-15 minutes per show... Probably less once he got towards the middle of the tours and just knew the routines. Thankfully he was one of the few rock stars who realized that putting in that 10 minutes per show was great for the fans.

[bosk1]

Is it really such a big deal to have rotating set lists anyway? Most of us really don't have the opportunity to go to more than one show on a tour.

I think it can be more exciting for online fans who follow a tour by checking out every set list and can look at the difference in each one, but it can be disappointing if the band pulls out a few obscure gems for a tour and none of them get played at the one show you get to see.  I remember them bringing A Change of Seasons back on the Train of Thought tour (first time they played it since Rudess joined the band), but it wasn't played at every show.  That have to have been disappointing to fans in the cities where it wasn't played.

It also sucked for those of us at the S.F. show where it was on the set list, but got cut because the show started 20 minutes late due to technical difficulties with the audio/video.  

[KevShmev]

It also sucked for those of us at the S.F. show where it was on the set list, but got cut because the show started 20 minutes late due to technical difficulties with the audio/video.  

Ouch.  Our show (the infamous show where the guy fell out of the balcony diving for Portnoy's drum stick at the end of the show) had problems with the video screen behind them (I think), so Finally Free was cut from the end of the first set.  But we still got A Change of Seasons to kick off the second set.

[bosk1]

Oh yeah.  I remember the "Aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!  *thud!*" on the bootleg.    Also unfortunately for our show, it was one of VERY few on the tour that does not have a recording in circulation.  As far as we know, there was only one taper at the show, and that recording was lost.

[snowdog]

Is it really such a big deal to have rotating set lists anyway? Most of us really don't have the opportunity to go to more than one show on a tour.

I also agree with Kev on his OP.  But I wanted to address this post.  The biggest plus of the rotating set list for me was that they were tailored to each city.  MP would look back at whats been played on previous tours in a particular town, and try to give them something new.  So it's not just a case of multiple shows in one city. 

Yeah that was the attraction.  Although that said, it seemed like Portnoy stopped looking at previous stops in the cities the last few tours they did (headlining shows of course).  The setlists from SFAM through Train of Thought were done very well I thought.  After that it wasn't done as well, but still much better than most bands.

I will say that I agree with Kev about what they might play in your city verses elsewhere.  I know on the Octavarium tour I was very glad I didn't look at any setlists until after I saw them.  Because they played at least 3 songs I wanted to see in many other cities but not at the show I saw.  So after the fact I was disappointed (and would have been at the show had I known) but actually enjoyed my time at the show.

[perfectchaos180]

I got screwed on my first show to see them (Chaos in Motion), because the venue had a ridiculously early closing time, yet they still started the show at the normal time and gave the opening bands the same amount of time and I missed out on The Spirit Carries on and Scarred (a solid 20 minutes of music and two awesome songs). I still have never seen TSCO

So it would be nice if one of the band members noticed that the DC/Baltimore hasn't gotten TSCO lately. I want to see it!

[wasteland]

Oh yeah.  I remember the "Aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!  *thud!*" on the bootleg.    Also unfortunately for our show, it was one of VERY few on the tour that does not have a recording in circulation.  As far as we know, there was only one taper at the show, and that recording was lost.

Can you remember the city/date of the show? Maybe I have the bootleg, but I never noticed the scream 

[tgstk2]

the first time i saw them was on the aardschok dag (a dutch festival..i think it's doesn't exists anymore)..back in the day in I&W...
than there was DT, the amps, the instruments, some lights and that's it (pantera style!!!) and they owned!! they rocked the living shit out of everybody....
i dont care abougt setlists... its great to see DT live, i could see them play the same setlist over and over again...i dont get tired of DT songs...
i good watch JP play the uagm solo every day and after 1235094 days i still would be like ..WOW best solo EVER!....

as long as there's a mix of metal/prog on the setlist and just 1 ballad on there...than i dont mind the song choice at all. as long as it's ballanced
my 2 eurocents (which is worth more than a dlollar these days...)

[tgstk2]

they should play LIE more...it's been ages, and that song kills.

[73109]

Also, something to keep in mind:

The rotating set policy was for fans who wanted to see DT in somewhat of the same area. Same city, same state, etc. DT just played 2 different parts of a country. We'll see what happens once they start playing the states.

[Fiery Winds]

Is it really such a big deal to have rotating set lists anyway? Most of us really don't have the opportunity to go to more than one show on a tour.

I think it can be more exciting for online fans who follow a tour by checking out every set list and can look at the difference in each one, but it can be disappointing if the band pulls out a few obscure gems for a tour and none of them get played at the one show you get to see.  I remember them bringing A Change of Seasons back on the Train of Thought tour (first time they played it since Rudess joined the band), but it wasn't played at every show.  That have to have been disappointing to fans in the cities where it wasn't played.

It also sucked for those of us at the S.F. show where it was on the set list, but got cut because the show started 20 minutes late due to technical difficulties with the audio/video.  

  Yup, that was not cool. 

[Elite]

I got screwed on my first time I saw them. JLB sang badly and the whole band seemed tired and wasn't connecting musically as a band(!) at all.
On top of that the setlist SUCKED.
I ripped off by hearing two thirds off of BC&SL, a horrible JR solo spot, Prophets of War, The Dance of Eternity (seriously, wtf) and JP en JR egotripping and soloing simultaneously (playing different shit) at the end of Take The Time.

The only thing I was actually glad they played was Hollow Years (extended), Take The Time (save the ending) and The Count of Tuscany (though JP actually screwed up in the ambient part).

Yeah, pretty bad show, my point being: I wouldn't mind at all if DT would keep this setlist for the rest of the show, actuually, I'd love them to.

[Ben_Jamin]

I don't mind rotating set lists, I actually love them since most bands I've seen twice or more always played the same songs.

But, I also found it better to not look at any set lists before your show on the leg. That way you won't be hurt because they played this song on the city before yours and not at yours.

What sucks though is we have an 11 'o clock curfew and bands start at normal time, This caused Porcupine Tree to abandon the encore, which probably was trains, because of curfew and time restrictions.   

[razorsedge]

Also we should remember that DT is one of the very few bands out there who even considers doing such a thing as rotating a setlist for a tour. Most groups will throw in a cover here and there, but even the most improvisational groups like the Dead or Bruce Hornsby, Phish, etc. stick to at least a core setlist per leg of a tour. The fact that MP even did that to begin with would seem insane to even a newer band with a smaller catalogue. Considering how long and complex some of the DT tunes are, I wouldn't blame them for sticking with the same setlist for the entire tour. Obviously, rotating setlists are one of those DT "icing on the cake" things, but you're right - MP only started doing that once the lineup was solid and everyone was intimately familiar with all the material.

just because i am sort of obsessed with phish stats, i'll have you know that in 18 shows this summer, they have played 173 unique songs.  

6 songs were in a three show rotation.
18 songs were in a four show rotation.
39 songs were in a five show rotation
84 songs were played only once.

and 0 songs were played at more than 40% (7/18) of shows.
i bring this up only because you used the words "core setlist" which i think is misleading.  yes, phish does have a number of songs you can count on showing up in regular rotation, but we're talking about about 50 or so songs spaced by at least 2 shows.  for some bands, that's the whole catalog.


obviously, phish is an anomaly (probably why they are so damn interesting to follow) and this has nothing to do with dream theater or my expectations for DT setlists, but i've recently become really interested in trying to predict setlists for phish and have determined it's pretty damn hard.  even with data as complete as that, being able to pick over 50% would be a huge victory for me.  I was at about 33% for the final 2 superball sets.  

[tri.ad]

Generally, I'm fine with rotating set lists; however, the current set list is really great; rotating it wouldn't be really necessary (well, maybe swapping ES or Forsaken with different songs). Most bands I know play more or less fixed set lists, and DT is a special treat in that matter. Personally, I don't think rotating set lists are a necessity, but it is certainly nice. If DT want to pick up rotating set lists again for the future legs (US, 2nd time Europe, Asia etc), great. If it takes more time, fine with me.

[fadetoblackdude7]

I think they're gonna stick with this set (with maybe a change or 2) until the festival shows are done, then once the album is released, they're obviously gonna put more new tracks in there.

MP generally kept the same set with only 2 or 3 songs changed with each date. It's most likely gonna stay that way, I imagine.

[Lowdz]

Does anyone think the new album may be played in its entirety on the upcoming legs of the tour?

You mean in a straight shot or just all of the songs?  Have they ever done that for anything other than Scenes?

I saw them on the opening night of the ToT tour in Manchester and they started off with every track from ToT.

[tgstk2]

i wish they would play the alternative version of  The Count of Tuscany .....
the Cunt Of Tuscany... i would love to hear how that sounds...