Your DT "I wish they would have" moment(s)

[Samsara]

One of the things I'm always curious about, are those moments with a band where a big fan wishes they would have made a different decision, whether artistically, business-wise, etc. A watershed moment for YOU, as a fan, where you wanted them to do something different than what they did.

For me, with Dream Theater, that moment probably after the FII and 1998 holiday shows. I wish they would have kept Derek and forged ahead with him, instead of bringing on Jordan. I like Jordan, but his playing style just isn't my thing. I prefer keyboards to set and continue moods, not to be very highly featured as soloists. To be honest, I barely remember the keyboard solos from I&W-FII. Not because they aren't good, they are. But because they don't stick out as "look at me" moments. They fit the songs better, or continue a mood.

Jordan's style is very different, even if he is probably the best keyboard "player" the band has ever had.

That's my "I wish they would have" moment with Dream Theater.

What is yours?

[rumborak]

I wish they would have figured out a workable solution with MP over the years, instead of (what it seems like) having it built up to a point where MP was doing everything and got burnt out, and the others were hiding for their chance.

rumborak

[STEVETHEATER]

The Shattered Fortress

I was hoping for this ''Grand Finale'' of the AA suite... but I was a little bit dissapointed when I first heard it. I undersatand now why Mike/DT went for this approach but It could have been much ''beter''. Oh well... still a cool song.

[Implode]

First thing that comes to mind is in A Nightmare to Remember. "ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAR!"

I wish they would've kept that out...and possibly the whole section before it.

[ariich]

I wish they would have figured out a workable solution with MP over the years, instead of (what it seems like) having it built up to a point where MP was doing everything and got burnt out, and the others were hiding for their chance.

rumborak

That's quite a good one, but to be honest I don't really do "I wish they would have" things with any band, artist, or whatever. They can do what they want, and if I like it great, but if not, there's a hell of a lot of other stuff I like so no biggie.

[TAC]

Steve, I'm with you on TSF.

1. I wish things were cool and MP was still in the band. I'm gonna miss his playing and performances.
2. I wish James could've avoided the food poisoning.
3. I wish they had played Boston or Providence for one of those Holidays shows in '98.
4. I wish they'd been playing Space Dye Vest throughout the years.


I also wish this thread stays somewhat loose and doesn't become a Lockable DT bitchfest.

[orcus116]

Let every song from Train Of Thought to Black Clouds age at little bit before recording it to weed out the many impurities.

[Lowdz]

I've said it before, but I wish they had done Forsaken as a duet with a female vocalist (my choice would have been Within Temptation's Sharon Den Adel) and shot a "Twilight" style video instead of the godawful anime crap they went with.
But I'm liking the previous posts too.

[Zook]

I wish they didn't make Never Enough and Prophets of War.

[rumborak]

I wish they would have figured out a workable solution with MP over the years, instead of (what it seems like) having it built up to a point where MP was doing everything and got burnt out, and the others were hiding for their chance.

rumborak

That's quite a good one, but to be honest I don't really do "I wish they would have" things with any band, artist, or whatever. They can do what they want, and if I like it great, but if not, there's a hell of a lot of other stuff I like so no biggie.

Neither do I. Especially since I think everybody was somewhat guilty for the situation they found themselves in.

rumborak

[TheMadgician]

I've said it before, but I wish they had done Forsaken as a duet with a female vocalist (my choice would have been Within Temptation's Sharon Den Adel) and shot a "Twilight" style video instead of the godawful anime crap they went with.
But I'm liking the previous posts too.

You mean a video featuring exceedingly metrosexual "vampires" that sparkle in the sun and are really just poor misunderstood creatures and a female lead who is really just a self insert for a writer with a pathetic life?

[Aniland]

I wish they wouldn't have killed the gorgeous momentum in "In the Presence of Enemies, pt. 2". You know the part... right after the "STANDING IN THEIR WAY" and the faux-classical instruments rise! And... oh, what's that stupid, moment killing rhythm doing? Great, you just fucked up what could have been incredible.

[skydivingninja]

I agree.  ITPOE would be a much better song, silly lyrics aside, had The Reckoning and the finale been rewritten to something better.

[j]

I'm kinda with ariich on this one, I don't spend much time thinking about "man it would have been great had the band done this instead".  But of course I have my opinions.  I guess in general, I wish they'd have stepped back and looked at some of their lyrics and musical passages before putting them to record.  Or gotten an outside ear to do it.

-J

[darkshade]

I agree.  ITPOE would be a much better song, silly lyrics aside, had The Reckoning and the finale been rewritten to something better.

i kind fo agree, though i dont mind the song as is.

i DO wish they had left it as one song; how it would have affected the album? i dont care

[SinisterMinisterX]

I wish they would have ended Octavarium with the ticking clock that opens SFAM, to truly make that 4-album series end where it began.

[tamaha]

I wish that they'd left out the instrumental section in The Ministry of Lost Souls.

[Cool Chris]

Tough question Samsara. As much as I may agree with you from a stylistic standpoint (and I am not sure I do...), if the band decided that replacing DS with JR was an important factor in them moving ahead in to the 2000's and getting themselves out of the 1996-1998 funk they found themselves in, I am glad they did it. I guess I would rephrase it to say "I wish they would have not felt they needed that change to help get themselves out of that funk."

I'd also include "I wish they would have met James prior to recording WD&DU, but that of course was not a decision, that was circumstance.

I wish they could have made a different label/management decision, or had more clout, that would have led to FII and their recording experience be different, which would have led to Mike not having all that anti-label angst, them not having such an anti-outside producer feeling, and not having such an overall down time 1996-1998 (see above).

Of course there are little wishes here and there, with regards to songs, sections, etc... but it's a short and insignificant list.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I wish that they'd left out the instrumental section in The Ministry of Lost Souls.

Yes, please.

[antigoon]

You wish the song was even more boring than it already is?

[ReaperKK]

I wish that they'd left out the instrumental section in The Ministry of Lost Souls.

Yes, please.

agreed

[ZirconBlue]

I wish they would have been allowed to release the version of FII that they wanted to.

[Bolsters]

The Shattered Fortress

I was hoping for this ''Grand Finale'' of the AA suite... but I was a little bit dissapointed when I first heard it. I undersatand now why Mike/DT went for this approach but It could have been much ''beter''. Oh well... still a cool song.

I agree with this one. I wish they had taken more time to make The Shattered Fortress a lot better than it is. As it is now it sounds like a mash-up an amateur producer made using Cubase and recordings of the previous four songs. I'd have preferred it be a song in of itself and have strong references the other songs in the saga, rather than be nothing but reference after reference and craploads of copy/paste.

[Jirpo]

First thing that comes to mind is in A Nightmare to Remember. "ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAR!"

I wish they would've kept that out...and possibly the whole section before it.

I love that part! Those are some of the few tough guy vocals I'm a fan of

[perfectchaos180]

1. No James food poisoning
2. Keep Jordan's role down just the slightest bit
3. Not signed with Roadrunner

[The Letter M]

I like "The Shattered Fortress" and it's re-use of riffs, themes, motifs and grooves - it's sort of the Anti-Overture. They couldn't have written a "standard" overture, which features bits of themes that are to follow because they hadn't written the rest of the suite yet. Had the whole thing been done at once, you could bet there'd have been an Overture-type movement with the various themes, much like SDOIT's "Overture", or Transatlantic's "The Whirlwind" and it's Overture.

Instead, they took the Overture idea and used it in the end, and in the context of the lyrics and the idea behind them, reusing prior riffs and themes makes so much sense, in that the two of the final three steps infer a continuation of prior steps' processes of admitting wrongs and giving oneself over to the power of God. It's fitting that the most "new" music in the song is at the end, where the final step describes having a spiritual awakening and carrying on the lessons learned through the 12 steps (which fits with ending where it began, as one reaches out to offer help to others who will start the 12 steps themselves).

"The Twelve-Step Suite" is a bit choppy individually, but I think listened to as a whole (which I've done many, many times) brings it all together quite well, and everything seems to make sense. However, you just have to be able to sit through 55 minutes of it all.

As for what my "I wish" moment would be... I wish they had gotten their way during 96-98, and released a double album with their unreleased b-sides. I know, some here are happy with what we got, but I think there's some GREAT material among those b-sides. Also, demo versions > final versions, in the case of "You Or Me", "Take Away My Pain", and maybe "Hollow Years" and "Lines In The Sand".

-Marc.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I don't know if I wish this would have happened, but I think it would have been really interesting to see what happened if MP actually left the band for good during the FII tour but they decided to continue going on anyway.

Would they have reached the same level of success they have now? Would they have fired Derek and brought Jordan in anyway? Would any "name" drummer even want the gig, or would they have to start over with a rookie?

Something to think about.

[Knguro]

I wish they would have Mikael Akerfeldt recording a really heavy bad ass song! That would be awesome!

[chrisbDTM]

ended a nightmare to remember at the 14:14 mark

[aparadoxindeed]

I might take a beating for this, but I usually find myself wishing they would have continued to use outside producers!  I feel like the production on I&W through FII is their best, and I've felt weird about most of their stuff after that.  I guess I also liked when there was somebody there to help the guys focus on the song.  I feel like their older material is much more melodic and song-oriented.  Obviously, the newer material still retains a bit of this, but I always felt a tangible difference from SFAM on.

[Mladen]

1. I wish The Shattered Fortress wasn't so recycled and repetitive - while the idea was great, the song could have been executed much better
2. I wish Raise the knife and Cover my eyes ended up on Falling into infinity instead of some other songs
3. I wish James could have avoided food poisoning
4. I wish When dream and day reunite was recorded on the 20th anniversary, because James would sound much better

[Lowdz]

I've said it before, but I wish they had done Forsaken as a duet with a female vocalist (my choice would have been Within Temptation's Sharon Den Adel) and shot a "Twilight" style video instead of the godawful anime crap they went with.
But I'm liking the previous posts too.

You mean a video featuring exceedingly metrosexual "vampires" that sparkle in the sun and are really just poor misunderstood creatures and a female lead who is really just a self insert for a writer with a pathetic life?

I thought vampires did more than sparkle in the sun. Never seen any of the films but a cash in on the popularity of them would have been a better idea. They already wrote the song to cash in, why not do the video?

[hefdaddy42]

My only real "wish" is that I wish they hadn't kept with the "writing and recording at the same time in the studio" thing.  They did it with SFAM because that's how the LTE albums had been recorded, but to me DT is a very different thing than LTE, despite the overlap in members.  I think most of the albums since then would have been better served by writing, editing, and honing the songs before going into the studio to record.  Don't get me wrong, I think they've done some amazing music in that span, but I think it could have been better if there had been more time spent on the actual craft of songwriting.

[Lowdz]

My only real "wish" is that I wish they hadn't kept with the "writing and recording at the same time in the studio" thing.  They did it with SFAM because that's how the LTE albums had been recorded, but to me DT is a very different thing than LTE, despite the overlap in members.  I think most of the albums since then would have been better served by writing, editing, and honing the songs before going into the studio to record.  Don't get me wrong, I think they've done some amazing music in that span, but I think it could have been better if there had been more time spent on the actual craft of songwriting.

+1.

[ZKX-2099]

I think they should have kept Six Degrees as one separate track... Presence Of Enemies as well.

And maybe they should have left Lifting Shadows off in favor of Eve/To Live Forever/Don't Look Past Me.