Space Dye Vest Live At Tarrytown

[The Letter M]

Exactly. Even though Kevin wrote it and demoed it, it was Dream Theater that played it, recorded it and released it, so really, it became a Dream Theater song, not so much just a Kevin Moore song.

By that reasoning, any band who covers, say, a Beatles song, can claim that song as their own, then.

How so? Kevin wrote it while he was IN THE BAND, meaning he was a part of it, so by releasing on an album that he was in a band with makes it part of the band's catalog.

I'm not talking about covers here - I mean when the song is release. It seems silly for anyone to think they would need permission to play a song. I mean, do you think MP and DT ever asked Rush, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Deep Purple, Pink Floyd, etc. etc. if it was okay for them to cover their songs? Probably not, and those were songs Dream Theater didn't write or release.

"Space-Dye Vest" is a song that was released by Dream Theater, so having Dream Theater play it shouldn't be a problem. If Kevin didn't want the band to play it, he wouldn't/shouldn't have let them record it. Obviously it seemed like he didn't have a problem with it and allowed the band to record it and release on the album. The only one who seemed to have a problem with playing it live was MP, or at least, he was the most vocal about it.

-Marc.

[hefdaddy42]

FYI, M, DT did need to get permission from those bands to RELEASE their performances on CD/DVD.  Just not to perform them in the first place.

[Perpetual Change]

Exactly. Even though Kevin wrote it and demoed it, it was Dream Theater that played it, recorded it and released it, so really, it became a Dream Theater song, not so much just a Kevin Moore song.

By that reasoning, any band who covers, say, a Beatles song, can claim that song as their own, then.

Any band can play any song they want live.

[jsem]

Exactly. Even though Kevin wrote it and demoed it, it was Dream Theater that played it, recorded it and released it, so really, it became a Dream Theater song, not so much just a Kevin Moore song.

By that reasoning, any band who covers, say, a Beatles song, can claim that song as their own, then.

[The Letter M]

FYI, M, DT did need to get permission from those bands to RELEASE their performances on CD/DVD.  Just not to perform them in the first place.

Ah, well release is another deal altogether, but just to play...that's what I meant. I guess I didn't convey that properly, but you're right. And JR and CJS are just, so far, going to play it. As far as releasing it, would it be a problem, considering it is a song originally release by DT, or would they REALLY have to go to Kevin for permission to release it?

-Marc.

[Gorille85]

Hmm. Should be interesting. Also, seems like the band likes the song after all.

[Perpetual Change]

They wouldn't have to get any kind of permission. It's their song. They can play it and release it whenever they want.

[hefdaddy42]

It has music and lyrics by KM.  Just like Wait For Sleep, which they play with no problem.

So, probably no problem.

[rumborak]

This is a really bizarre conversation. Since when does a band need permission to play one of their officially released songs, only because the main writing member is no longer with the band? Genesis never asked Peter Gabriel when they played The Musical Box.

rumborak

[John94]

My thoughts exactly. If KevMo felt so strong about it then why didn't he save it for himself as opposed to Dream Theater. But, it's a Dream Theater song, on a Dream Theater album.

They have every right to play it.

[RoeDent]

OK OK! Jeez, no need to get your knickers in a twist. I always thought all bands had to ask the original songwriters permission to perform their songs onstage, where the performance could be recorded and sold illegally. Royalties and all that.

[rumborak]

If anything, KM would have a problem trying to play SDV live.

rumborak

[TL]

SDV was originally recorded and released by Dream Theater. Therefore, Dream Theater can do whatever they want with it. They can play it live, they can release live recordings of it, they can do a techno remix with added growling vocals; it's their song.
They didn't play it live until now because MP didn't want to, and he made the decisions regarding the band's setlists until he left.

I also get the impression that KM really doesn't have any problem with them playing it. He seems pretty easy going about such things.

[The Letter M]

It has music and lyrics by KM.  Just like Wait For Sleep, which they play with no problem.

So, probably no problem.

True. But oddly enough, when has "Wait For Sleep" ever been put on an officially released live album? It's been on a few YtseJamRecords and DTIFC's, but nothing through a major label like OIALT, LSFNY, LAB, SCORE or CIM.

Not that this show has any chance of being officially released through RoadRunner.

-Marc.

[The Letter M]

I'd also like to point out that JR released a transcription book of piano parts of Dream Theater songs, and among them was "Space-Dye Vest". Not that it REALLY has anything to do with this, but it seems JR doesn't have a problem with wanting to play it, and if Kevin had any real problems with JR playing it to begin with, I'm sure he would've said something when he transcribed it for the DT Piano Book (or whatever it was titled).

-Marc.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

KM doesn't care about Dream Theater

Space Dye Vest is a Dream Theater song (Like it or not, folks)

Ergo, KM doesn't care about Space Dye Vest

[rumborak]

I think the most striking aspect of this whole thing is the symbolic aspect really. An interesting choice, and obviously a public statement.

rumborak

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

The thing about MP stating the "dislike" of the band as a whole towards the song and now this seems very interesting to me.

Makes me think there are lots of unsaid things in the Portnoy/Rest of DT relationship (While he was still in the band, of course)

[jsem]

Yeah. This could act as a statement against Mike.

[jonny108]

They wouldn't have to get any kind of permission. It's their song. They can play it and release it whenever they want.

Yeah but they aren't playing live as Dream Theater, it's Jordan Rudess plus special guest...that's what might pose a problem to release it.

[emindead]

This is a really bizarre conversation. Since when does a band need permission to play one of their officially released songs, only because the main writing member is no longer with the band? Genesis never asked Peter Gabriel when they played The Musical Box.

rumborak

I think people confuse more the fact that Roger Waters got the rights to certain songs so when Pink Floyd toured without him, they couldn't release certain songs from The Wall into their VHS concerts.

(In this case I think David Gilmour couldn't care less and still released Another Brick in the Wall Pt. 2 in the P*U*L*S*E* DVD and never got into trouble -Yet strangely Hey You was not... making it only available in the CD version of that concert. When Waters came to Colombia in an interview they asked him about that dilemma and Waters said that PF can't play or release certain songs from The Wall, and the interviewer said: "but there are two songs from The Wall that are yours solely that were released in the last official DVD+VHS PF ever made" and Waters responded "that's not true". I remember thinking "Ummm, Roger, you're wrong". Awkward.)

[jonny108]

But then again what I said doesn't make sense because it would be Jordan needing to get permission from Dream Theater to release it 

[MetropolisxPt1]

Sorry the simple fact is that kevin makes up for his lack of ingenuity and playing skill by adding in obnoxious samples.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

Sorry the simple fact is that kevin makes up for his lack of ingenuity and playing skill by adding in obnoxious samples.

Lack of playing skill? That's a rather ignorant comment. Just because he doesn't play fast doesn't mean he can't. People don't call out David Gilmour for a lack of playing skill.

[MetropolisxPt1]

Sorry the simple fact is that kevin makes up for his lack of ingenuity and playing skill by adding in obnoxious samples.

Lack of playing skill? That's a rather ignorant comment. Just because he doesn't play fast doesn't mean he can't. People don't call out David Gilmour for a lack of playing skill.

Your the one who suggested he cannot play fast, if your definition of playing skill is fast then your ignorance amazes me. KM is a minimalist also try comparing something that even relates slightly next time.

[TAC]

Sorry the simple fact is that kevin makes up for his lack of ingenuity and playing skill by adding in obnoxious samples.

Lack of playing skill? That's a rather ignorant comment. Just because he doesn't play fast doesn't mean he can't. People don't call out David Gilmour for a lack of playing skill.

Your the one who suggested he cannot play fast, if your definition of playing skill is fast then your ignorance amazes me. KM is a minimalist also try comparing something that even relates slightly next time.

I'm no keyboard expert, and haven't heard any post DT KevMo, but early in the band, I remember thinking, geez, this guy's pretty good. I wasn't aware that he wasn't.

[orcus116]

Sorry the simple fact is that kevin makes up for his lack of ingenuity and playing skill by adding in obnoxious samples.

Lack of playing skill? That's a rather ignorant comment. Just because he doesn't play fast doesn't mean he can't. People don't call out David Gilmour for a lack of playing skill.

Your the one who suggested he cannot play fast, if your definition of playing skill is fast then your ignorance amazes me. KM is a minimalist also try comparing something that even relates slightly next time.

So what if he's a minimalist? I'd even go as far to argue that much of the stuff he's done post-DT has more artistic and musical value than much of the stuff DT has done since he left. Whatever you think he lacks in technical skill he makes up in compositional skill.

[Super Dude]

Solo KM is amazing. I suggest checking out Chroma Key.

Anyway I don't like to get into the KM-DS-JR argument cuz they're all great performers for vastly different reasons, but you simply cannot touch KM in terms of composition.

[Global Laziness]

I remember reading this news yesterday and wondering how big the thread would get. It's pretty funny to see how every aspect of Kevin Moore and Space-Dye Vest have already been discussed thoroughly.

Personally I think this is a perfect opportunity for the song to be played. It wouldn't really fit in a Dream Theater set these days, so it's great for the fans to finally get to hear it live, albeit in a slightly different setting. Publicity stunt or not, good on JR and JLB. Just another reason I wish I could go to this concert.

[JayOctavarium]

oh and the Pink Floyd thing, David Gilmour had the right to play the 3 songs he cowrote (Hey You, Run Like Hell, C-Numb) and I think he had to pay Roger Waters each time they performed Another Brick.... I think


On Topic: if anything, this is a cover so there is nothing anyone can do... If JR wants to release this live... He needs to get permission from DREAM THEATER. my money is on him getting it

[MetropolisxPt1]

Sorry the simple fact is that kevin makes up for his lack of ingenuity and playing skill by adding in obnoxious samples.

Lack of playing skill? That's a rather ignorant comment. Just because he doesn't play fast doesn't mean he can't. People don't call out David Gilmour for a lack of playing skill.

Your the one who suggested he cannot play fast, if your definition of playing skill is fast then your ignorance amazes me. KM is a minimalist also try comparing something that even relates slightly next time.

So what if he's a minimalist? I'd even go as far to argue that much of the stuff he's done post-DT has more artistic and musical value than much of the stuff DT has done since he left. Whatever you think he lacks in technical skill he makes up in compositional skill.

If I'm not mistaken he wrote the pensive fear melody in take the time...

[Vivace]

If you want to be technical it was officially released on Awake making it "technically" a Dream Theater song. But Jordan Rudess and JLB are not Dream Theater. They are Jordan Rudess and JLB. If JR and JLB cut an album and included SDV on the album I don't see how anyone could see that as anything but a cover. If JR and JLB are going to Dream Theater then I would think the rest of Dream Theater would have a bit of a problem with that. 2/5 of Dream Theater is not Dream Theater.

It's a cover folks. Pure and simple.

[TAC]

It would not surprise me in the least if this was in next year's setlist. It would also not surprise me that with MP out of the picture, JP can convince KM to finally make some sort of appearance with the band.

[tri.ad]

I'm not too sure about either of this, especially about the last part.

[TAC]

Yeah, I didn't mean it as a slight against MP, but he was so vocal about it. Even saying about if Kev hadn't left the band after Awake, the band would've imploded or something like that. I cannot believe that JP's relationship with Kev was as bad as MP's.