Mike Portnoy on wanting to rejoin Dream Theater

[skydivingninja]

I have had no problems with the SFAM drum sound, or with the drumming contained within.  Trust me dedSurroun, I've listened to it.  Probably more times than you.

[KevShmev]

Well-played, sir. *golf clap*

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I have had no problems with dedSurroun claiming to have listened to SFAM more than you.  Trust me skydivingninja, I've listened to dedSurroun.  Probably more times than you.

[Perpetual Change]

Scenes isn't a great sounding album, but the drums aren't especially bad.

[tri.ad]

I agree. The problem of SFAM's sound is a general one, and while the drums don't sound good, they aren't solely responsible for SFAM's lackluster sound.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

It's kinda like eating a shit sandwich and complaining that the bread doesn't taste good.

[theusualmadness]

SFAM is one of my favorite albums and I think the sound is great.

[kirbywelch92]

Not sure how I would compare the sound of the drums on SFAM to other albums, but as far as content is concerned I would say it's probably Mike's best drumming with SDOIT following alongside it.

[dedSurroun]

I've listened to it. Probably more than you. 

And how would you know this?

Lighten up.

That's how I know.

[dedSurroun]

I have had no problems with dedSurroun claiming to have listened to SFAM more than you.  Trust me skydivingninja, I've listened to dedSurroun.  Probably more times than you.

That's actually pretty funny...

[Samsara]

The other thread has been locked because of all the rampant criticism, insults, etc.  While the vast majority of posts did not fall into that category, I am not inclined to go through every post to decide what to keep and what not to keep.  Let's try this discussion once more.  And before posting, I strongly suggest you read and think about the following before you hit the "Post" button:

All insults, bashing, attacking, etc. of Mike Portnoy, Dream Theater, whoever the hypothetical new drummer turns out to be, and/or any other member of the Dream Theater community is to cease immediately. Continued violations will result in immediate bannings without warning and, if that does not solve the problem, permanent shutting down and deletion of DTF.org.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=17311.0

All I have to say is...I think people are entitled to respectfully criticize Mike Portnoy. In this FAN'S opinion, Mike has expressed himself very poorly and has made himself look foolish. Quite frankly, I believe he cost himself any further work with A7X because of his antics online. Not to mention his constant blabber has really annoyed fans who wish he'd just shut up and go away for awhile.

I'm a fan of Dream Theater and a fan of Mike Portnoy. I appreciate all that he's done for me as a fan (the setlists, the info, etc., etc.), and appreciate him always remembering that HE is a fan, and treats fans mostly how he would like to be treated as a fan.

That said, this is a discussion forum. I can't speak for everyone who "bashed, criticized, or insulted" in the other thread (no sense for me to go check it out), but I sincerely hope you and the rest of the moderator team here DO read posts thoroughly and allow FANS to respectfully present their opinions on Mike and his actions.

To not allow those opinions, even if critical (and again, respectfully posted, not outright bashing), pretty much stifles any reason to have an open discussion forum for fans. Not everyone thinks Mike Portnoy, Dream Theater, etc., crap roses.

This board's mod team has done a good job over the years, but I sincerely hope that respectful criticism of Dream Theater's former drummer is respected by you and the mod team.

And FYI - this is a response to the first post in this thread. I've no interest in reading seven pages worth of commentary on the issue. If that is a rule violation, then go ahead and admonish me, but I'm not doing that.

[dedSurroun]

I have had no problems with the SFAM drum sound, or with the drumming contained within.  Trust me dedSurroun, I've listened to it.  Probably more times than you.

Gold medal awarded.

It's the snare specifically, not all of the drum sound.

[skydivingninja]

Well said, Samsara.

[ariich]

All I have to say is...I think people are entitled to respectfully criticize Mike Portnoy.

Indeed they are. We never said they weren't, and indeed that has carried on. What we don't allow is people being disrespectful. There has been no stifling whatsoever on areas of discussion, and that won't ever happen unless the bashing starts up again and we have no choice.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

MIKE PORTNOY CAN S... MY... D...

Sorry.

[KevShmev]

I think that is where history and common sense should kick in.  If it is a longtime or frequent poster going over the line a bit too much, then maybe some more leeway can be shown, meaning consider their whole history instead of just dropping the hammer on them, but if you get a new poster or someone who rarely posts coming out nowhere to bash away, then act accordingly.

To me, it never makes sense to close a thread if one or two people are acting up.  That penalizes everyone in the discussion.  Fortunately, that doesn't seem to happen here, but you'd hate to see it get to that point, simply because of a handful of bad eggs.

[wkiml]

MIKE PORTNOY CAN S... MY... D...

Sorry.

Why would Mike want to Smack your Donkey?

[ariich]

I think that is where history and common sense should kick in.  If it is a longtime or frequent poster going over the line a bit too much, then maybe some more leeway can be shown, meaning consider their whole history instead of just dropping the hammer on them, but if you get a new poster or someone who rarely posts coming out nowhere to bash away, then act accordingly.

To me, it never makes sense to close a thread if one or two people are acting up.  That penalizes everyone in the discussion.  Fortunately, that doesn't seem to happen here, but you'd hate to see it get to that point, simply because of a handful of bad eggs.

Well said all round.

[emindead]

So the problem is the influx of these new posters that come from MP.com because they have been banned there for expressing their opinion and think they can say whatever they want here because it is not as uptight as over there?

[lucky7]

I assume perhaps a lot of why they said no to Mike is they would have now signed contracts with the new drummer, so they can't back out.
It may only be a one album contract, and then who knows what will happen, but I am sure Mike wishes he could turn back time.
Now all we need is the new drummer announcement.

[Pumpkin Pie]

The problem is whenever someone voices an opinion that the moderators don't like, it's considered disrespectful. Regardless of how true or false it is. That's the bottom line. Lots of people here are disappointed with what's gone down, and don't feel all the nice towards MP. The guy is being a drama queen, everyone knows it. So, let's cut the shit, shall we?

[skydivingninja]

No, its when you resort to childish namecalling like "drama queen."  That's the kind of thing the mods are upset about, not because we have differing opinions about how Mike has acted the past few months.  In fact, I'm sure a lot of them AGREE with us.  Its just the way you word your opinions that matters the most.

[Nick]

The problem is whenever someone voices an opinion that the moderators don't like, it's considered disrespectful. Regardless of how true or false it is. That's the bottom line. Lots of people here are disappointed with what's gone down, and don't feel all the nice towards MP. The guy is being a drama queen, everyone knows it. So, let's cut the shit, shall we?

And we have another winner! See you in a week.

And Kev was quite dead on, I'm going to continue bannings like the one above rather than see everyone, especially long time members get penalized.

[Nick]

The problem is whenever someone voices an opinion that the moderators don't like, it's considered disrespectful. Regardless of how true or false it is. That's the bottom line.

Although the drama queen line is the one that got you banned, I'm considering making the ban permanent because these statements are A) False, and B) disrespectful. I am personally very disappointed in the way MP has handled things since leaving Dream Theater, and yet here I am banning you for disrespectful comments. People are free to voice their concerns in a non-insulting, respectful manner.

[ariich]

No, its when you resort to childish namecalling like "drama queen."  That's the kind of thing the mods are upset about, not because we have differing opinions about how Mike has acted the past few months.  In fact, I'm sure a lot of them AGREE with us.  Its just the way you word your opinions that matters the most.

Thanks Matt, I couldn't have said it better!

I disagree with people over plenty of things, but most people are capable of expressing themselves maturely and sensibly. It's those who don't who need to be careful.

So the problem is the influx of these new posters that come from MP.com because they have been banned there for expressing their opinion and think they can say whatever they want here because it is not as uptight as over there?

Hmm, I guess that could be the case with some new users, but I think it's just a general increase in activity due to the current status of the band bringing in new users from all over the place, many of whom rush into posting without reading the rules or taking the time to get to know the community and how we work.

[Jamesman42]

And Kev was quite dead on, I'm going to continue bannings like the one above rather than see everyone, especially long time members get penalized.

That's really good, and that type of consequential forum management is supported by educational research.

I say that because it reminded me of some of my readings this semester (Classroom Management and Communication). You lose the respect and good behavior of the whole if your penalize the whole for what only a few people did. That's why everyone freaked on the "deletion" threat, because almost everyone has been respectful, yet they were going to get the same punishment as those who were disrespectful.

There have been studies done in classrooms that very much support that a good amount of students will rebel more if they are punished for wrongs they did not commit. I'm glad to see y'all taking that strategy on now.

/mod therapist

[gabeh1018]

this may be a little off topic, but since a few people have mentioned how band members  or  their own individual self may not be happy with their recent albums and that awake and images and words is better:  i just have to say that Awake was the album that got me into dream theater in 2002, but i have to say in the past few years i generally listen to I&W and Awake the least

not sure why, but just wondering if there are others out there find themselves doing the same.

[Major Thirteenth]

this may be a little off topic, but since a few people have mentioned how band members  or  their own individual self may not be happy with their recent albums and that awake and images and words is better:  i just have to say that Awake was the album that got me into dream theater in 2002, but i have to say in the past few years i generally listen to I&W and Awake the least

not sure why, but just wondering if there are others out there find themselves doing the same.

This is very off topic. However I still listen to I&W and Awake as well as Octavarium and BCSL. It just depends on my mood.

[emindead]

So the problem is the influx of these new posters that come from MP.com because they have been banned there for expressing their opinion and think they can say whatever they want here because it is not as uptight as over there?

Hmm, I guess that could be the case with some new users, but I think it's just a general increase in activity due to the current status of the band bringing in new users from all over the place, many of whom rush into posting without reading the rules or taking the time to get to know the community and how we work.

True. There's no universal rules at the internet.

[reneranucci]

I surely listen to Awake the least. It´s their worst album  

[Samsara]

I think that is where history and common sense should kick in.  If it is a longtime or frequent poster going over the line a bit too much, then maybe some more leeway can be shown, meaning consider their whole history instead of just dropping the hammer on them, but if you get a new poster or someone who rarely posts coming out nowhere to bash away, then act accordingly.

To me, it never makes sense to close a thread if one or two people are acting up.  That penalizes everyone in the discussion.  Fortunately, that doesn't seem to happen here, but you'd hate to see it get to that point, simply because of a handful of bad eggs.

Well said all round.

Agreed.

And ariich - I never said mods weren't doing it. In fact, I think I applauded the mods and bosk. But with situations such as Portnoy's, a little reminder on the necessity of "free" speech was something (given I take liberties with said speech, as do others who have something of value to contribute) I thought important.

[The Dark Master]

this may be a little off topic, but since a few people have mentioned how band members  or  their own individual self may not be happy with their recent albums and that awake and images and words is better:  i just have to say that Awake was the album that got me into dream theater in 2002, but i have to say in the past few years i generally listen to I&W and Awake the least

not sure why, but just wondering if there are others out there find themselves doing the same.

This is very off topic. However I still listen to I&W and Awake as well as Octavarium and BCSL. It just depends on my mood.

Honestly, I don't think the band is disappointed in any of their albums, with the possible exception of Falling Into Infinity (When Dream And Day Unite was their debut, so they probably cut it some slack; though aside from the mix, I think it is one of the most kick ass debuts of all time.)  I don't think they look back at albums like Images and think of their newer stuff: "where did we go wrong", they probably just see it as a very crucial and turbulent time in their career and so the music ended up being something special.  With that said, each album they have made is rather unique, and I generally rank their albums based off personal taste rather then if I think they have gotten better or worse.  Yes, I know I have made comments about certain things I dislike about the last couple albums and I stand by them, but that is more my taste then believing that there is an "Ideal" Dream Theater sound that they are failing to match.  If people agree with me or not is no concern of mine.  The "....core" vox could be the coolest thing in the world right now, and I would still think they sound funny on a DT album.  Just not my style.  But for what it is worth, the last two DT albums are still far above most of the pack in the world of modern metal.

And on a related note that kind of gets back to the main point of this thread, while I do suspect that Mike may have been the main motivator behind those attempts to make DT sound "modern" (based on his comments in interviews and the Systematic Chaos bonus DVD) he certainly was not alone in making that music.  If everyone else in the band didn't like it, they would have said no and the albums would have sounded vastly different.  Recent events have shown what happens when MP brings up a point of contention that the others unanimously reject.

Replacing Portnoy is not a magic button to set Dream Theater "right".  It may allow some of the other members to have more of a say in the making of music, and the presence of a new member may revitalize their writing formula.  There will not be an I&W2 and frankly, there doesn't need to be.   DT have always been great at whatever they do, and I can admit that while still disagreeing about certain creative choices they have made on recent efforts.  Personally I'd rather see them attempt something new and fresh for the next album rather then try to go back to the golden days of yore.  One of the worst mistakes a band can make is attempt to recreate past glories.  Just ask Queensryche about Operation Mindcrime II

[ZBomber]

I know this might be straying off topic a little bit, but things really have been getting kind of... "strict" around here. And I understand why. But at the same time, with MP's forum becoming a place where you can hardly say what you really think without fear of being banned, I think this place should allow a little more leeway. Not to the point where its out right name calling, but there are a lot of DT fans very angry with the way Mike has been handling the situation (and now how his forum is handling it), and I think its ok to come off sounding "angry" in your posts as long as you're not being very rude. I mean, this is really the only other populated DT forum around. It'd be nice to have people be able to express ANY opinion, even if it is a controversial one that may not seem to be "backed up" by anything other than speculation. Cause, think of it, if anyone said MP would be leaving the band back in August, we'd probably all be ridiculing them and if they kept posting it, they'd probably be banned.

If anything, this whole scenario has showed us that even the most far-fetched ideas can have some degree of truth to them...

Thats just my thoughts on the whole thing, I know the mods have probably been up to their necks in moderating the forums with the influx of new members, so I know its been pretty hectic for them...

And to be on topic (sort of)... I thought MP's drumming on "Is It Really Happening?" was some of his best on the album, and probably the best he has done on any album in the past 5 years.

EDIT - Again, not criticizing the moderating team, because I think they have been doing a good job... but this place definitely is getting a lot less... "homey". Probably mostly in due to the current state of the band and the inevitable problems its brought, but... it'd be nice to have the "friendly" atmosphere back.

[Nick]

I think that is where history and common sense should kick in.  If it is a longtime or frequent poster going over the line a bit too much, then maybe some more leeway can be shown, meaning consider their whole history instead of just dropping the hammer on them, but if you get a new poster or someone who rarely posts coming out nowhere to bash away, then act accordingly.

To me, it never makes sense to close a thread if one or two people are acting up.  That penalizes everyone in the discussion.  Fortunately, that doesn't seem to happen here, but you'd hate to see it get to that point, simply because of a handful of bad eggs.

Well said all round.

Agreed.

And ariich - I never said mods weren't doing it. In fact, I think I applauded the mods and bosk. But with situations such as Portnoy's, a little reminder on the necessity of "free" speech was something (given I take liberties with said speech, as do others who have something of value to contribute) I thought important.

While I understand the sentiment of free speech, it is something that the constitution forbids the US federal government from impeding, and there is nothing that says a random internet forum has to give their members free reign to post whatever they like. That said I think we are more than fair in what we allow to be discussed and have only taken steps against those who have crossed very clearly stated and repeated lines.

@Zbomber - Frankly, for what seems like the billionth time, I think we have allowed ANYTHING related to MP and the current situation of the band to be discussed, and in general everyone is free to discuss ANYTHING DT related they wish. All we ask is that it be free of insults and that you remain respectful to DT, former members, and other members of the forum.

[Deez]

Portnoy propositioned the band?  Wow, where the hell have I been ?

Well, I was always disappointed that Mike left and never thought it was a good idea.  Now Mike wants back and the guys say, "No."  Well, okay, this is probably the best response.  They got a new drummer, don't want to screw over the new guy.  Also, no sense in jerking around the fans.  That would cause as much drama as a Lindsay Lohan/Britney Spears coked up sexcapade and honestly I don't wanna see the band circle that drain.  That would be awful and I think many people, myself included, would lose a lot of respect for the band.

But being privy to this much behind the scenes chicanery, I can't help but wonder...worry...about the relationship between Mike and the band.  I take it for granted that Mike is likely to return within a couple of years and I'd rather not see all parties burn their bridges.  That, more than anything, would suck mightily. 

But shit's crazy right now, people are being...weird.  I figure this means now that Mike will be gone for two album cycles instead of one .