Mike Portnoy on wanting to rejoin Dream Theater

[Dream Team]

Random thought, MP did a LOT of marketing and promotion of DT; I wonder if management is gonna take the reins or leave it to JP/JLB?

[ariich]

You know, there is one thing about this all that does seem weird to me: the possibility that Mike actually be being "cheated" currently. If the guys really did "leave the door open" to him, then why would they shut that door before even entering the studio? 

The first thing to keep in mind is that, as has already been said, that comment was from Mike, so it is purely his take on what was said during an emotional conversation.  We don't have the exact words, the context, etc.  But aside from that, what I've always taken the comment to mean is something more along the lines of, "If Mike ever wanted to come back in, and the position was available, there's certainly no personal animosity or the kind of "creative differences" you often hear about in this situations that would prevent us from having him back in the band."  I don't think they literally meant, "the door is literally always open, even if we have a replacement in place that we would have to fire, and even if it is clear Mike's heart still isn't in it but he wants to come back merely because he thinks that is the only way to salvage the friendship." 

As has been said quite a few times, sure something else could be going on that has closed the door that we don't know about.  But most likely, it's simply the fact that by the time Mike asked to come back in, they had already hired someone else and made commitments to that person.

Completely agree with all of this.

[Samsara]

...and perhaps it is as simple as they are waiting until New Years to make an announcement, kicking of 2011 with news they feel is positive and moving forward. Another band (much lower profile, but once signed to a huge major label deal) is doing the same thing that I know and follow, replacing a singer.

Sometimes, the answer is the easiest and most obvious one.

There could, or could not, be legal reasons, sure. I am sure a settlement between MP and the business of DT is a big deal. It could not be settled. But that would not hold up having a new drummer in the band. Even IF there are roadblocks, you can take someone into the band and not make them a member of the business structure (to start with, or just do that and keep it that way), until things are settled with ex members. It was done all the time.

In fact, Chris DeGarmo's departure in 1997 wasn't fully settled until about 2000, when he separated his publishing rights with the band. He left, and the legal stuff was being done, but Kelly Gray was then in the band as a permanent member. But it took a bit to get all the legal stuff with Chris done so that he was completely separate from Queensryche's business dealings. But QR went along with Gray without much issue (just bringing this up from bosk1's mention of it earlier).

That said, however, I think DT waiting to make an announcement is probably more basic, such as a New Years type thing. Legal issues aside with MP, it won't hold up Dream Theater from making a record and playing live.

[TAC]

That said, however, I think DT waiting to make an announcement is probably more basic, such as a New Years type thing. Legal issues aside with MP, it won't hold up Dream Theater from making a record and playing live.

Hi Sam,..but what if he's fighting for the "Dream Theater" name?

[bosk1]

That would be incredibly foolish of him.  And why would you even speculate that he would do such a thing since there hasn't even been a hint of that?

[Samsara]

That said, however, I think DT waiting to make an announcement is probably more basic, such as a New Years type thing. Legal issues aside with MP, it won't hold up Dream Theater from making a record and playing live.

Hi Sam,..but what if he's fighting for the "Dream Theater" name?

He can fight, but he's ONE of the first three members of the band. Petrucci has written more than him, and while he (MP) could try something like that, in my professional opinion, he'd lose, and take yet another hit to his image and reputation if he did so. If Mike and his representatives were smart, they have/are negotiating Mike's departure, legally, from the group, trying to get Mike's business interests straight.

That said, it should not hold up Dream Theater making any announcement or moving forward. This happens all the time with tons of bands.

If Mike and his people are nuts enough to try that game of taking the name, sure, that could hold stuff up, but I don't think Mike and his reps are dumb enough to try that. Anyone with a legal background in copyright and trademark law knows (after seeing Mike's writing credits, and ASSuming that ownership rights in the band are with JP, JM, and MP, with JLB and JR being members, but lower in the structure for ownership of the name) that MP would end up losing.

So I doubt that is what the deal is. But I do think his folks probably are trying their best to make sure Mike's business and financial interests are well represented...but I doubt that is a reason for any hold up for Dream Theater.

[Samsara]

That would be incredibly foolish of him.  And why would you even speculate that he would do such a thing since there hasn't even been a hint of that?

bosky - I know you were replying to TAC, and I agree, it would be very foolish for the reasons I put up above. But the speculation is valid by people not versed in these areas of the law, given that MP has painted himself as the guy behind Dream Theater. For folks not up on the legalities of stuff like this, it's a pretty good point.

[TAC]

That would be incredibly foolish of him.  And why would you even speculate that he would do such a thing since there hasn't even been a hint of that?

Yeah, like Sam said, I'm legal stupid

But I was responding to Sam's post about legal issues, announcements, and hold ups. But specifically, I was responding to Sam's assertion about DT going forward and releaseing product and touring/marketing, and I was thinking a naming fight could hold that up..not speculating that it is actually happening here, but I was thinking in far more general terms.

[Samsara]

That would be incredibly foolish of him.  And why would you even speculate that he would do such a thing since there hasn't even been a hint of that?

Yeah, like Sam said, I'm legal stupid

But I was responding to Sam's post about legal issues, announcements, and hold ups. But specifically, I was responding to Sam's assertion about DT going forward and releaseing product and touring/marketing, and I was thinking a naming fight could hold that up..not speculating that it is actually happening here, but I was thinking in far more general terms.

It COULD happen, absolutely. But I HIGHLY DOUBT that would be the case in this scenario, given the situation, and assumed facts regarding the name and its ownership and the business structure of the band.

It would make no sense for Portnoy to fight what would ultimately be a losing battle. So that's why I find it extremely unlikely that has anything to do with the wait behind announcing a drummer and future plans.

My bet would be that it is a simple reason, like preference on timing (New Years, etc.)

[Faustusmedea]

I agree the simple answer is probably the right one. But I also believe people often do not make rational decisions in a divorce. Plus, since Howard actually came up with the name, there may be some additional leverage or remuneration required for the band to continue to employ the name. Haven't read Lifting Shadows so I don't know if this is discussed at all.

[KevShmev]

I don't think Portnoy would try to stop them from using the Dream Theater name, but it is worth noting that Portnoy has said before that he was always on Roger Waters' side in the Waters vs. Pink Floyd long-standing feud, and Waters tried to stop them from using the Floyd name in the mid/late 80s, so while I don't think Portnoy will do it, it wouldn't surprise me.

[Jamesman42]

The timing thing that Samsara is saying makes perfect sense. It would allow for the news to not be caught in the holiday madness, including New Years' Eve. And to make it show like a fresh start to the band right before they enter the studio.

[TAC]

If this is being held up for New Year's Eve/Day, I'll be shocked.

[chrisbDTM]

if he tries to stop them from using the name (which i dont think will happen) i will lose all respect for that man

[JayOctavarium]

if he tries to stop them from using the name (which i dont think will happen) i will lose all respect for that man

same

[orcus116]

That would be incredibly foolish of him.  And why would you even speculate that he would do such a thing since there hasn't even been a hint of that?

He made a pretty bold statement about how his father came up with the name like "MY father came up with that name" or something.

[EternalDancer]

He made a pretty bold statement about how his father came up with the name like "MY father came up with that name" or something.

That's a pretty fair point. But it would appear only CERTAIN speculation is permissible around here especially if it could cast a negative cloud around MP

[Super Dude]

Random thought, MP did a LOT of marketing and promotion of DT; I wonder if management is gonna take the reins or leave it to JP/JLB?

I'd like to have an answer/speculation on this one, preferably from someone who's an expert in this sorta thing.

[bosk1]

He made a pretty bold statement about how his father came up with the name like "MY father came up with that name" or something.

That's a pretty fair point. But it would appear only CERTAIN speculation is permissible around here especially if it could cast a negative cloud around MP

Speculation that casts anyone involved isn't permissible if it (1) is completely unsupported and (2) casts them in an unfairly negative light.  But if you want to continue to indirectly imply that I am biased in the way I run my site, go right ahead.  You'll quickly learn that I'm particularly biased against people who make accusations about how I do things and that I don't hesitate to ban them and let them go cry about it on their Facebook page instead of cluttering up my forum with it.

[yeshaberto]

 

[EternalDancer]

I was implying no such thing about you, indirectly or otherwise. It was a general observation of many people here.

Orcus made a very fair point

BTW I never mention DT on Facebook - was that an indirect and unsupported implication that casts me in an unfairly negative light?

[bosk1]

BTW I never mention DT on Facebook - was that an indirect and unsupported implication that casts me in an unfairly negative light?

Not unless you're ashamed of having a Facebook page for some reason.

[hefdaddy42]

Was there something wrong with mentioning DT on facebook?

[ariich]

That would be incredibly foolish of him.  And why would you even speculate that he would do such a thing since there hasn't even been a hint of that?

He made a pretty bold statement about how his father came up with the name like "MY father came up with that name" or something.

It is an absolutely enormous leap to think that him making that comment in relation to how much he is hurting supports the possibility of him completely losing his marbles and stopping the band from using the name.

[orcus116]

I agree, I was just offering a possible explanation. You know how overanalytical DT fans can get.

[ariich]

Very true.

[bosk1]

I agree, I was just offering a possible explanation. You know how overanalytical DT fans can get.

Of course.  As we speak, I'm still weighing evidence in my mind and trying to figure out whether you are really black as your avatar suggests.

[orcus116]

There exists two more black people in my posting space than there are in my room right now.

[The Dark Master]

@ the dark master

read earlier posts in this topic. there are tons of people stating how they are glad that DT rejected portnoy for many reasons.

I have been involved in this topic from the beginning, and frankly, I don't think anyone is actually happy about Mike being out of the band, what they are excited about is a number of possibilities that could result from Mike's departure:

1) The prospect of Myung, LaBrie and Rudess being able to contribute more freely to the song writing process.

2) The influx of new ideas from a new member.

3) A general loosening-up of the album creation process that could lead to a more spontaneous and energized form of song writing similar to what they did back in 80's and 90's.

Defend Portnoy all you want, but most people would agree that the band has creatively stagnated, or, at the very least, become somewhat predictable, over the past decade in general, and the last two albums in particular.  The time was well ripe for him to at least step aside from being in creative control (even if he wasn't actually writing more music then the other guys, he was still more or less directing the overall sound of each album), and allow some new ideas to come to the fore.  His inability to do that even when by his own admission he was "burnt out on Dream Theater" and his desire to put the band on an indefinite hiatus rather then let the others simply take the creative reigns is, I believe, the central issue that led to this split in the first place.  For that reason, while I, and others, may not exactly be happy that Portnoy has left the band, some good may at least come out of this sorry state of affairs.

[The Dark Master]

Just to be clear, I certainly have no problems with Mike Portnoy otherwise and I immensely appreciate all the other things he has done for the band, such as rotating setlists, 3 hour shows, Ytsejam Records, P.R., etc.  Other then his tight control over their creative output, he has done an admirable job leading the band for the past decade and he has done things for the fans that very few people with his level of success or renown would ever lower themselves to doing personally.  Now if only we could have all that and a more balanced song writing system that allows all members of the band to contribute ideas more equally, we would have the perfect Dream Theater.  And who knows what may happen after that (world peace, maybe?   )

[ariich]

Other then his tight control over their creative output

There is still no evidence that this was the case at all.

[The Dark Master]

Other then his tight control over their creative output

There is still no evidence that this was the case at all.

Maybe no hard evidence, but much of Lifting Shadows and Mike's own comments, as well as the Score So Far documentary heavily suggest it.  Although I will concede that the other instrumentalists were still writing much of the actual music, Mike was clearly acting as a film director; guiding the band's style and creating overarching themes for albums.

[bosk1]

Other then his tight control over their creative output

There is still no evidence that this was the case at all.

Exactly.  And there was nothing about MP being in the band that ever kept Myung, LaBrie and Rudess from contributing as freely as they chose.  (Well, okay, at a couple of different points in the band's history, they took the position that the singer wasn't to contribute to the writing of the music, so at least during those periods, I guess you can make the argument for LaBrie)

[The Dark Master]

And the rule that prevented Myung from writing lyrics after SFAM......

[bosk1]

1.  Writing lyrics is not the same as writing the music.
2.  It did not prevent Myung from writing lyrics.  The rule was that if you submit lyrics, you have to submit a vocal melody with them, which Myung chose not to do.  And, for the record, LONG before MP said he was leaving, Myung said he planned to contribute lyrics again in the future.