Mike Portnoy on wanting to rejoin Dream Theater

[bosk1]

That's all well and good, but everything you've said other than Mike being contacted by DT's lawyers, is entirely speculative.  You can keep repeating your same opinion, but there really hasn't been anything said by anyone that supports it.

[plap11]

am i the only true dream theater fan here? this is completely rediculous and disrespectful to portnoy to say that the door is always open for when he wants to re-join then turn him down. What is their reasoning? he has known mike and john for almost thirty years and they just do this to him?

Why is everyone glad they did this to mike? He may not still be the best drummer in the world, but there is nobody in the world who can write drum parts that fit dream theater as well as him. If Neil peart, or gavin harrison, or anyone else people like were in dream theater I still would be pissed off because they could not write music as well as portnoy.

You guys really need to realize who mike portnoy is and how bad DT needs him back./(ik2qwR

[Nick]

And you need to realize that most of us here are Dream Theater fans and entitled you our opinions.

[ariich]

What Nick said. Have some respect, plap11.

[Darkes7]

Why is everyone glad they did this to mike?

This is something I absolutely cannot understand either.

[hefdaddy42]

am i the only true dream theater fan here?

No.  Now chill the fuck out.

[Nick]

Why is everyone glad they did this to mike?

This is something I absolutely cannot understand either.

First off there is no clear victim here as we have no real idea on what things are like behind the scenes, how long something like this could have been brewing etc. Next, most are not happy that Mike is possibly being screwed over, they are excited what a new drummer and fresh perspective could bring to the band's music.

[hefdaddy42]

Why is everyone glad they did this to mike?

This is something I absolutely cannot understand either.

First off there is no clear victim here as we have no real idea on what things are like behind the scenes, how long something like this could have been brewing etc. Next, most are not happy that Mike is possibly being screwed over, they are excited what a new drummer and fresh perspective could bring to the band's music.

This.

[ReaPsTA]

[post]

So when I asked "are you in the know or just a good enough writer to fake it," the latter was correct.

This leads to my follow-up question: What's your writing background?  Because I'm kinda impressed.

[farren]

[post]

So when I asked "are you in the know or just a good enough writer to fake it," the latter was correct.

This leads to my follow-up question: What's your writing background?  Because I'm kinda impressed.

Once again, it's speculation based on what little we know.  Why does it have to be either a lie or inside knowledge?  What's so complicated about "It's my opinion that..."?  You asked that question days ago, and the only piece of potential BS I've seen from Major's posts on this subject is the "new representatives have entered the picture" bit from earlier today which he'll hopefully provide a source for.

The ad hominem crap about a background in writing is ridiculously weak.

[ariich]

[post]

So when I asked "are you in the know or just a good enough writer to fake it," the latter was correct.

This leads to my follow-up question: What's your writing background?  Because I'm kinda impressed.

Once again, it's speculation based on what little we know.  Why does it have to be either a lie or inside knowledge?  What's so complicated about "It's my opinion that..."?  You asked that question days ago, and the only piece of potential BS I've seen from Major's posts on this subject is the "new representatives have entered the picture" bit from earlier today which he'll hopefully provide a source for.

Because he goes into incredible amounts of detail. There isn't even a shred of evidence for ANY of that detail, so either he's a good writer (in that he comes up with convincing stuff in his speculation), or he has some inside knowledge.

I don't know why you're getting so defensive anyway, it has nothing to do with you.

[Faustusmedea]

That said, I think DT with MP is better than without.

This is an impossible judgement to make, since no one has yet heard DT without MP.

Not really. While I can envision a Sammy type replacement of Dave with certain better qualities (and some worse), there is no replacing Dave. Given a choice, I would always go back to 77 seeing them versus the later years. I may come to really enjoy the new DT direction (almost surely will) and can still feel certainty things would have been better if a departure could have been avoided. While it isn't quite the same as a member leaving Rush/Zeppellin, its close.

[orcus116]

I don't think Mike is as irreplaceable as people think. I could be wrong but from several different comments on his drumming on the last few albums he used so many of the same lines and fills that if someone with the same skill level used his box of tools they could've come up with very similar or equally interesting (take that as you will) drum parts for those albums/songs.

Mike definitely had a style but I don't think it was as key to DT's overall sound as Petrucci's guitar style. Not by a long shot.

[Raziel666]

If Neil peart, or gavin harrison, or anyone else people like were in dream theater I still would be pissed off because they could not write music as well as portnoy.

I guess you can predict possible futures to make that statement.

You guys really need to realize who mike portnoy is and how bad DT needs him back./(ik2qwR

Whether we fans realize it or not, it's a fact that the 4/5 of Dream Theater don't seem to think that they badly need MP back. They should know better than you I guess.

[ReaPsTA]

[post]

That and Major Thirteenth's writing is supremely confident but not in an unfounded way.  Most people who speculate are trying to sound convincing and cover up the holes in their argument.  Major Thirteenth writes like a lawyer who has researched all the evidence and every conceivable counter-argument.

[Raziel666]

I don't think Mike is as irreplaceable as people think.

He may be irreplaceable in certain aspects (for example, being on the forums 24/7, releasing official bootlegs, etc.), but none of these is something that is really needed. It's just means of spoiling us fans and giving us more - maybe more than we're entitled to. What counts is the original music, and that was going stale the last several years.

As for creating different setlists, anyone with a computer and a database can do that. Whether one has the courage to do that is debatable, but even an outsider has the means to do that (https://www.setlist.fm anyone?).

[KevShmev]

I don't think Mike is as irreplaceable as people think. I could be wrong but from several different comments on his drumming on the last few albums he used so many of the same lines and fills that if someone with the same skill level used his box of tools they could've come up with very similar or equally interesting (take that as you will) drum parts for those albums/songs.

While I generally agree with this, Portnoy does have a certain sound and style that is unmistakable, and that sound and style was a big part of the DT sound, so while I welcome change and the new drummer wholeheartedly, a major part of the DT sound IS going to change.  Portnoy's general time-keeping, which often sounds like half a beat ahead of everything else (I hope that made sense, coming from a non-drummer ), cannot be exactly duplicated by any other drummer.  It is the difference between playing the notes and feel.

As for creating different setlists, anyone with a computer and a database can do that. Whether one has the courage to do that is debatable, but even an outsider has the means to do that (https://www.setlist.fm anyone?).

Agreed.  And some DT fans like to act like DT is the only band that does rotating set lists, but plenty of other bands do them, too.

[slycordinator]

this is completely rediculous and disrespectful to portnoy to say that the door is always open for when he wants to re-join then turn him down. What is their reasoning? he has known mike and john for almost thirty years and they just do this to him?

The only statement that I saw saying anything close to "the door is always open" is that when asked if they'd take him back, JP said that he'd love to work with Mike again in the future, which isn't exactly the same as a "yes, we'll take him back no questions asked." And this notion of them leaving the door open for his return seems to go against the fact that they refused to go on the hiatus to begin with.

Also, even if they did initially say "the door's open for you to come back", things have changed since he left besides the mere act of him quitting.

[farren]

[post]

So when I asked "are you in the know or just a good enough writer to fake it," the latter was correct.

This leads to my follow-up question: What's your writing background?  Because I'm kinda impressed.

Once again, it's speculation based on what little we know.  Why does it have to be either a lie or inside knowledge?  What's so complicated about "It's my opinion that..."?  You asked that question days ago, and the only piece of potential BS I've seen from Major's posts on this subject is the "new representatives have entered the picture" bit from earlier today which he'll hopefully provide a source for.

Because he goes into incredible amounts of detail. There isn't even a shred of evidence for ANY of that detail, so either he's a good writer (in that he comes up with convincing stuff in his speculation), or he has some inside knowledge.

I don't know why you're getting so defensive anyway, it has nothing to do with you.

In part because I've posted similar speculation in weeks past. If any understanding of how legal separations of huge bands with contracts and royalties typically go down is inside knowledge, then I suspect a lot of people here are "insiders." But primarily because the logical fallacy of liar vs insider and the baseless ad hominem attack on Major's character (the distraction of suggesting he must have some sort of background in writing to merely speculate on the legal situation that may be brewing) that ReaPsTA is repeating and you're agreeing with is supremely annoying.

I don't know why you're getting so offensive over mere speculation. Take it with the grain of salt with which any speculation should be considered.

[bosk1]

Farren, you've already been warned about your posting habits in your short stay here.  Let me make this as clear as possible.  Here are the problems with your latest posts in the thread:

1.  Rather than discuss the topic at hand, you are wasting my server space on posts defending another user (who doesn't need defending).  By definition, you are taking the thread off topic.
2.  Your posts are needlessly abrasive and inflammatory. 
3.  You are completely off-base in ranting about what you mistakenly believe is an ad hominem.  Complimenting someone on their writing style is not an ad hominem.  And continuing to derail the thread with your baseless accusations and arguing with one of my mods is, again, off topic.

Continue to spend more time derailing the thread, making baseless accusations, and/or arguing with my mods about this is going to earn you a one-way ticket out of here.  If a mod doesn't ban you over it, I certainly will.  So think twice before your next post.  And if you have any issue with anything I'm telling you, do NOT continue to derail the thread by posting it here.  Send me a PM instead.  Given that you're newish here, let me conclude by saying I'm sorry if it seems like you are being singled out and we are coming down on you too harshly.  Whenever I warn somebody, I'm not looking to ban them.  I'm looking for them to realize they are violating the forum rules and change that.  While I encourage you to read the rules if you haven't done so already, they can basically be boiled down to the following:  Post in such a way that promotes respect for the band and respect for the other members of this forum.  Follow the rules, and you may stay and post to your heart's content.  Violate them, and you will be shown the door.

[reneranucci]

So who else thinks MP will be at Dt´s farewell concert?

[dethklok09]

So who else thinks MP will be at Dt´s farewell concert?

as the opening act
but no seriously i think so probably playing some or all of the songs with them

[Perpetual Change]

You know, there is one thing about this all that does seem weird to me: the possibility that Mike actually be being "cheated" currently. If the guys really did "leave the door open" to him, then why would they shut that door before even entering the studio? It just seems to me like we're not getting the whole picture. Either Mike having "the door left open to him" was about as real as Adkerfeldt/Wilson/Portnoy, the guys made a promise as definite as they'd made to Portnoy to their new guy (not expecting Mike to come back so soon) and are between a rock and a hard place (perhaps even legally), or something to transpire in the last couple weeks has completely soured the relationship between Mike and the other guys. I don't think one of these scenarios is more likely than any other, but I also can't imagine much else outside of them.

[orcus116]

They probably didn't expect him to be available so soon. Plus like someone else pointed out say they did pick Mangini and if he did cancel all of his lessons for the next semester to work with DT it'd be in bad taste to tell him to screw off and pick Mike back up again.

[Slain]

am i the only true dream theater fan here? this is completely rediculous and disrespectful to portnoy to say that the door is always open for when he wants to re-join then turn him down. What is their reasoning? he has known mike and john for almost thirty years and they just do this to him?

Why is everyone glad they did this to mike? He may not still be the best drummer in the world, but there is nobody in the world who can write drum parts that fit dream theater as well as him. If Neil peart, or gavin harrison, or anyone else people like were in dream theater I still would be pissed off because they could not write music as well as portnoy.

You guys really need to realize who mike portnoy is and how bad DT needs him back./(ik2qwR

It wouldn't be right for them to let him in. They have already hired a new drummer, what do they say to the new guy? "Uhh, sorry. Screw you, Mike wants back in." Mike had plenty of time to change his mind, and he changed it when they had already chosen a drummer.

[The Dark Master]

am i the only true dream theater fan here? this is completely rediculous and disrespectful to portnoy to say that the door is always open for when he wants to re-join then turn him down. What is their reasoning? he has known mike and john for almost thirty years and they just do this to him?

Ignoring your challenge about "true" fandom, others on here have already commented on the possible legal problems with just taking Mike back, especially now that they have already selected, just not named, a new drummer.  As for the "door being always open" the only time I remember that phrase being used was in Mike's official announcement that he had left Dream Theater.  I don't know what Petrucci told him exactly, but it is possible that he did not yet know how difficult it would be to let Mike back in after they had already signed up a new drummer, and I certainly doubt he expected Mike to change his mind so soon.  At any rate, Portnoy put the rest of the band in a damned awkward position by leaving, then asking to come back in right after they hired a new drummer and are preparing to enter the studio.  Petrucci and the others have stated that they did not just want a session drummer to hold the stool while Mike was off doing whatever fancied him; they wanted an actual member who would contribute creatively to the band.  For Mike to expect they would just take him back and pretend that he never left after they had already chosen the new guy, especially after the split had been made so very, very public, was very unrealistic and short-sighted, not to mention a bit egotistical of him.

Why is everyone glad they did this to mike? He may not still be the best drummer in the world, but there is nobody in the world who can write drum parts that fit dream theater as well as him. If Neil peart, or gavin harrison, or anyone else people like were in dream theater I still would be pissed off because they could not write music as well as portnoy.

I don't really think anyone is actually happy about Mike leaving, although it appears that there was a lot of resentment in the fanbase toward him concerning his dominance over the band and the direction he was taking them creatively in recent years.  As for writing music, a couple of things to consider:

a) Mike is only 1 of 4 instrumentalist in DT.  DT writes their music primarily through jamming together, then arranging their ideas into songs.  While a sudden 25% loss of the writing team is a sizable chunk, it is hardly the end of the band.  
b) We don't who the new drummer is or what his contributions will be.  He could just be a drummer, he could be an abominable song writer, or he could be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but until the new album comes out, we won't know.

You guys really need to realize who mike portnoy is and how bad DT needs him back./(ik2qwR

Mike was primarily a master of concepts and the big picture:  from Scenes From a Memory onwards, he was the one who came up with a theme and a structure for each album, and the band then wrote together with that in mind (i.e.: Six Degrees being an album of 6 epics, Train of Thought being a "metal" album, etc) .  While it is debatable weather this was good for the band or not, personally, I liked their less planned albums from the 90's more.  Not to say Mike could not write good songs (A Change of Seasons is still their best epic, IMO), but I doubt he was the band's creative genius in the same way Mustaine is for Megadeth.  In fact, considering that Mike lyrically only contributes between 1 and 3 songs per album, I would hardly consider him to be the creative brains of the band.

As for his drumming talent, he was exceptional, but not entirely irreplaceable.  There are other drummers that can play his parts.  The big question is how well the new guy's style will mesh with Dream Theater, that is something we will have to wait and see before we make any judgments.

Personally, considering that Mike has been the leader of DT for over a decade, I am curious to see what they will do without him.  I do have hopes that the new album could be something completely spontaneous and unexpected, a flash of musical genius like they made back in the old days of the '90s; but the possibility of them crashing and burning without Portnoy's leadership and contributions has not escaped me.  I would rather they do well without him, since I was a little bored with the last couple DT albums and want to hear what they can do without MP.  But Mike was unique, and his presence will be missed, regardless of how good or bad DT is without him.  As for weather or not they need him; I will reserve that judgment for after the next album.

[Moonchild]

Dark Master is completely correct, I wouldn't put it any other way.
Great analysis

[plap11]

@ the dark master

1. read earlier posts in this topic. there are tons of people stating how they are glad that DT rejected portnoy for many reasons.
2. I realize that they all work together to write instrumentals, but im saying that only he can write specifically the drum parts. They are so creative and technical and i don't know of any other drummers who write drum parts that fit their music as well as portnoy.
3. I know that there are tons of drummers out there that can play his parts as well as him and some can do them better. there are a million videos on youtube of people covering DT songs on drums. But like i just said, nobody can write drum parts like he can.

and @ slain

Of course they can just say "mike wants back in" he was their original drummer for 25 years and they should want him back in. plus the new drummer probably has a lot of respect for portnoy and would gladly give up their spot to let him back in.

[SixDegrees]

.

[Super Dude]

Right, I think people forget that although MP comprises one of the core members of Dream Theater throughout all of its incarnations except the latest one, he is still only one guy in five, and when you think about it only one of three core members.  I have high hopes for MP-less DT for reasons I've expressed ad nauseum, and I don't think it makes me any less a DT fan for wanting DT to go on without him.

[ariich]

Of course they can just say "mike wants back in" he was their original drummer for 25 years and they should want him back in. plus the new drummer probably has a lot of respect for portnoy and would gladly give up their spot to let him back in.

This part of your post leads me to believe that you are either quite young or if not then incredibly naive. If the band have auditioned new drummers, made public announcements about it, picked a drummer, got them to cancel whatever their other plans were going to be, etc, then it would be completely foolish for them to just go "oh screw that, Mike wants back in".

And besides all that, it's pretty clear that Mike's heart still wouldn't be in it, and that he would just be rejoining to try and keep good relationships with the guys. If someone left a band you were in because their heart wasn't in it, and then after you found a replacement who was really keen and excited, he came back and basically said "I still don't really want to come back, but I think I should so we can all stay friends", would you really let them back in? That would just be sacrificing the band's integrity.

[Jalis]

Hopefully all will be friends somewhat down the line...

But for now.. I sincerely hope that DT makes a killer album, and regarding MP, I hope that he goes out and do his stuff with Transatlantic or someone else...

Wanting to join a band for the sake of making peace in friendships, is for me, not a good decision for one person. Been there, tried to do that...

But hey... Happy New Year...

[Lowdz]

And let's not forget Mike's offer was a begrudging one, didn't really want to do it and would effectively have been a session drummer for the new album. If he was as burned out on DT as he claimed then his begrudging return would have been totally pointless and potentially destructive anyway.
He chose his own fate.

[Lowdz]

@ the dark master


Of course they can just say "mike wants back in" he was their original drummer for 25 years and they should want him back in. plus the new drummer probably has a lot of respect for portnoy and would gladly give up their spot to let him back in.

if he's a Buddhist he might think this, otherwise to walk away from the highest profile drum gig in metal out of respect for the guy who decided he didn't want it anymore? I doubt it. I certainly wouldn't.

[bosk1]

You know, there is one thing about this all that does seem weird to me: the possibility that Mike actually be being "cheated" currently. If the guys really did "leave the door open" to him, then why would they shut that door before even entering the studio? 

The first thing to keep in mind is that, as has already been said, that comment was from Mike, so it is purely his take on what was said during an emotional conversation.  We don't have the exact words, the context, etc.  But aside from that, what I've always taken the comment to mean is something more along the lines of, "If Mike ever wanted to come back in, and the position was available, there's certainly no personal animosity or the kind of "creative differences" you often hear about in this situations that would prevent us from having him back in the band."  I don't think they literally meant, "the door is literally always open, even if we have a replacement in place that we would have to fire, and even if it is clear Mike's heart still isn't in it but he wants to come back merely because he thinks that is the only way to salvage the friendship." 

As has been said quite a few times, sure something else could be going on that has closed the door that we don't know about.  But most likely, it's simply the fact that by the time Mike asked to come back in, they had already hired someone else and made commitments to that person.